Log from 2006-12-05:
--- Day changed Tue Dec 05 2006
00:02 <Vanhayes> #f
00:03 <armabot> Random Fortune: There must be at least 500,000,000 rats in the United States; of course, || I never heard the story before.
00:03 <Vanhayes> I dont get it
00:03 <Vanhayes> #f
00:03 <armabot> Random Fortune: Keep me informed on the behaviour of this kernel.. As the "BugFree(tm)" || series didn't turn out too well, I'm starting a new series called the || "ItWorksForMe(tm)" series, of which this new kernel is yet another || shining example. || -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.29
00:04 <wrtlprnft> o_O
00:05 <Vanhayes> hmm
00:05 <Vanhayes> #i
00:05 <Vanhayes> #insight
00:05 <armabot> Vanhayes: The ignominious consumption of technological change will destabilize our future business models.
00:06 <Vanhayes> #weather saint john
00:06 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 28°F / -2°C | Humidity: 93% | Pressure: 29.67in / 1004hPa | Conditions: Light Snow | Wind Direction: NNW | Wind Speed: 17mph / 28km/h | Updated: 6:00 PM AST; Tonight - Snow ending this evening then cloudy periods with 30 percent chance of flurries. Amount 10 cm. Wind northwest 20 km/h. Low minus 8.; Tuesday - Sunny with cloudy periods. Wind northwest 20 km/h. High minus 5. Tuesday night..a few (1 more message)
00:07 <Vanhayes> we finally got that cold front here, and now all the rain we were getting has turned into snow
00:07 <wrtlprnft> that's good.
00:07 <Vanhayes> about 10-15 cm now
00:07 <GodTodd> #g 10cm in in
00:07 <armabot> GodTodd: 10 centimeters = 3.93700787 in
00:07 <GodTodd> #g 15cm in in
00:07 <armabot> GodTodd: 15 centimeters = 5.90551181 in
00:08 <GodTodd> 4-6 inches...not bad
00:08 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: fix armabot so it sends all the lines :p
00:08 <Vanhayes> #more
00:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: clouds. Low minus 13.; Wednesday - Periods of snow or rain. High plus 2.;
00:08 <GodTodd> #weather 75023
00:09 <Vanhayes> #g -13 C in F
00:09 <armabot> Vanhayes: (-13) degrees Celsius = 8.6 degrees Fahrenheit
00:09 <armabot> GodTodd: The current temperature in Custer & Pleasant Valley, Plano, Texas is 48.6°F (5:09 PM CST on December 04, 2006). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 29%. Dew Point: 17.6°F. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032.1 hPa. 
00:09 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: it sends as much as it can in one line
00:09 <luke-jr> so fix it
00:09 <wrtlprnft> it's not supposed to spam the channel w/ 50 lines of useless google results
00:09 <luke-jr> and it doesn't either
00:09 <wrtlprnft> there's nothing to fix, there's #more
00:09 <luke-jr> fortunes are trimmed at \n
00:10 <luke-jr> and they don't make sense that way
00:10 <GodTodd> kinda like luke
00:12 <luke-jr> If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
00:12 <Vanhayes> A=A not B
00:12 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: they are?
00:12 <wrtlprnft> #f
00:12 <armabot> Random Fortune: BOFH Excuse #350: || paradigm shift...without a clutch
00:12 <wrtlprnft> #f
00:13 <Vanhayes> thats why its called A
00:13 <armabot> Random Fortune: "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only || coded it." || (Attributed to Linus Torvalds, somewhere in a posting)
00:13 <luke-jr> lol good one
00:13 <wrtlprnft> they aren't trimmed
00:13 <luke-jr> ...
00:13 <wrtlprnft> newlines are replaced by ||
00:13 <luke-jr> aha
00:13 <luke-jr> Konversation hides || and that following it
00:13 <luke-jr> weird
00:13 <wrtlprnft> 00:13 <armabot> Random Fortune: "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only || coded it." || (Attributed to Linus Torvalds, somewhere in a posting)
00:14 <wrtlprnft> fix your IRC client?
00:14 <luke-jr> I saw it in yours
00:14 <luke-jr> sure there's no colour codes getting in there?
00:14 <wrtlprnft> the || are bold
00:15 <wrtlprnft> supposed to be, my terminal emulation doesn't display bold text
00:15 <luke-jr> does it un-bold?
00:15 <wrtlprnft> should
00:15 <wrtlprnft> at least, if i access this screen from a windows pc w/ putty it looks right
00:16 <luke-jr> can you have armabot join #konversation plz?
00:16 <wrtlprnft> and in xterm it looks ok, too
00:16 <wrtlprnft> errm
00:16 <wrtlprnft> do they want armabot in there?
00:16 <luke-jr> hopefully
00:16 <wrtlprnft> well, you ask
00:16 <wrtlprnft> i watch
00:17 <wrtlprnft> don't want to have them kick me/armabot or get trouble w/ freenode staff
00:20 <wrtlprnft> #join #konversation
00:20 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
00:20 <wrtlprnft> #join #konversation
00:24 <wrtlprnft> #help f
00:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (f <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo Random Fortune: [rss [echo http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/fortune.php?$randomint]]".
00:24 <wrtlprnft> #rss
00:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (rss <url> [<number of headlines>]) -- Gets the title components of the given RSS feed. If <number of headlines> is given, return only that many headlines.
00:24 <wrtlprnft> #rss                [echo http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/fortune.php?$randomint]
00:24 <armabot> Kansas state law requires pedestrians crossing the highways at night to || wear tail lights.
00:24 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: does this appear correctly?
00:25 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ?
00:25 <luke-jr> yeah
00:25 <Vanhayes> hmm is that true?
00:26 <luke-jr> no clue
00:26 <Vanhayes> anyone live in kansas?
00:26 <luke-jr> a road I take to work is on the state line
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> my brother lives in kansas
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> *one of my brothers
00:26 <luke-jr> Kansas City is like 20% in Kansas
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> I've driven through Kansas a couple of times
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> one time I stopped to kick the shit out of some born-again catholic kid.  Found out later that was luke-jr (hi there!) 
00:28 <Vanhayes> Im sure he had it coming
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> hey Vanhayes (hi there!) , you missed it.  I invaded Luke :)
00:29 <luke-jr> Chapter 272 of the Massachusetts General Laws states, for example:
00:29 <luke-jr> Section 36. Whoever wilfully blasphemes the holy name of God by denying, cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, His creation, government or final judging of the world, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching or exposing to contempt and ridicule, the holy word of God contained in the holy scriptures shall be punished by imprisonment in jail for not more
00:29 <luke-jr> than one year or by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars, and may also be bound to good behavior.
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> don't they let gay people love each other for life in Massachussetts?
00:30 <Vanhayes> old law?
00:30 <luke-jr> hope not
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they let gay people get married there.  The idiot governor's trying to get it reversed somehow by doing an end-run around the people
00:30 <Vanhayes> might take a trip to massachussetts to test it
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> wear a t-shirt that says "Jesus loves me with all his throat"
00:31 <Vanhayes> the god thing, not the gay thing
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> and in the ensuing invasion, I captured both cities where he built wonders, and he retook one of them, but it was a 1 point city, so it was destroyed
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> s/invasion/battle
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> why he let me keep the other city when I withdrew most of my units to protect one city as a beachhead and basically conceded 3-4 cities to him, I'll never know
00:33 <luke-jr> In one Michigan case, a man who let loose a stream of curses after falling out of a canoe in 1999 was convicted of violating a law against cursing in front of women and children. He was fined US$75 and ordered to perform four days of community service.
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> man, I curse all the time
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> "You're not cleaning your room, you're fucking off!  Quit fucking off and fucking clean your room!"
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> so I asked my kid a few weeks ago, "What are you doing?  You're supposed to be cleaning your room."
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> He said "I'm fucking off"
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> 6 years old.  heh
00:35 <luke-jr> you should go to jail
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> why?  for telling my kids to clean their rooms?
00:35 <luke-jr> for irresponsible parenting
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> because having kids clean their rooms is irresponsible?
00:36 <luke-jr> * Washington state has a law against having sex with a virgin... even on her/his wedding night. 
00:36 <Vanhayes> swearing never he=urt anyone
00:36 <Vanhayes> uh, wouldnt that mean no one would have sex if they followed the law?
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you'll probably have a hard time proving I'm an irresponsible parent.  I might have methods you disagree with, but on the other hand I think you should be strung up for taking your kid to church
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> nothing is more damaging than forcing religion on an innocent kid
00:37 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: unless they left the state first
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's abusive behavior, and parents who do it should be shot, plain and simple
00:37 <luke-jr> Catherine comes willingly :)
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> feeding kids candy is also abusive, especially if you expect them to behave afterwards
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, she doesn't know any better.  She's what, a year now?
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> She can't be expected to make a responsible decision on the matter, that's why you're being irresponsible
00:38 <luke-jr> It's a good thing. There is no better.
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> kids are psychologically incapable of understanding religion until they're at least 12
00:38 <luke-jr> irrelevant
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> all you do is confuse and indoctrinate them
00:38 <luke-jr> indoctrination is only bad when its used to teach falsehoods
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter once said "Daddy's just saying that because he knows I believe in God.  I also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny"
00:39 -!- j0h4nn3s [n=j@i577B9A96.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, you're teaching her falsehoods, and she'll be scarred for life because of it
00:39 <luke-jr> nonsense
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> you should be hung by your neck until your feet quit kicking
00:39 -!- j0h4nn3s is now known as wejp
00:39 <Vanhayes> I love luke-jr's arguments
00:40  * Lucifer_arma notes that a religious household is much more likely to have physically and sexually abusive parents than a non-religious household
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> self-righteousness is bad
00:41 <luke-jr> only if you define 'religious' to include false religions
00:42 <Your_mom_arma> luke how can you prove other religions are wrong when religions are based on beliefs one can not prove?
00:42 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: Catholicism can be proven, given time
00:43 <Your_mom_arma> explain
00:43 <luke-jr> It is possible to prove Catholicism as true
00:43 <luke-jr> it is easier to prove other religions as false
00:44 <Your_mom_arma> prove away
00:44 <luke-jr> no thanks, that'd take days at the very least to address every doctrine
00:44 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: your wrong
00:44 <Vanhayes> no 
00:44 <Vanhayes> er
00:45 <Your_mom_arma> note that when i offer him the chance to prove himself he refuses
00:45 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: now, if you were to state a specific doubt about Catholicism, that might be more practical
00:45 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: it's easier to disprove the false religions than to prove all of Catholicism
00:45 <luke-jr> it's called elimination
00:46 <Your_mom_arma> fine, disprove buhdism
00:46 <luke-jr> you disprove them until there's only one left
00:46 <Your_mom_arma> pfft
00:46 <luke-jr> of course, another approach would be proving Catholicism through miracles
00:47 <luke-jr> since miracles have always come from the Church
00:47 <luke-jr> but that doesn't work when people discount history
00:47 <Your_mom_arma> what if i lined up 10 blocks and asked you to find the blue one you go down the line proving that 1-9 is red that must mean 10 is blue, but its still red
00:48 <luke-jr> then you're making the claim that there is no truth, which is clearly impossible
00:48 <luke-jr> or that it is impossible to know the truth, which makes life meaningless
00:48 <Your_mom_arma> luke do you really believe a 40 year old woman seeing an angel on her piece of toast is a miracle?
00:48 <luke-jr> however, disproving atheism is also implicitly showing that life cannot be meaningless
00:49 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: no, I would say it didn't happen
00:49 <luke-jr> However, I would say the Sun moving outside of its natural pattern is
00:49 <luke-jr> as well as the crowd witnessing being dried up so quickly
00:50 <luke-jr> not to mention when the Eucharist bleeds fresh 2000 year old blood
00:50 <luke-jr> etc
00:50 <Your_mom_arma> what
00:51 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: there are many well documented miracles witnessed by multitudes
00:51 <luke-jr> don't forget about the Saints whose bodies have never decomposed
00:51 <Vanhayes> have you seen their bodies?
00:52 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: myself, I haven't left the US yet
00:52 <Your_mom_arma> yeah, i've also seen david blane float, that doesnt meant he can float
00:52 <luke-jr> anyone can float
00:52 -!- wejp_ [n=j@i577BA452.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:53 <luke-jr> last I checked, kids were taught to float on their back as part of regular education
00:53 <Your_mom_arma> well teach me how to do it without machines or tricks
00:53 <luke-jr> ...
00:53 <Vanhayes> or water
00:53 <Your_mom_arma> cheap
00:53 <luke-jr> floating w/o water? wtf
00:53 <Your_mom_arma> i ment float in the air
00:54 <luke-jr> that's "hover"
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> like hover
00:54 <luke-jr> float means on the surface of a fluid
00:54 <luke-jr> air isn't fluid
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> #dict float
00:54 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: gcide: Float \Float\, v. t. 1. To cause to float; to cause to rest or move on the surface of a fluid; as, the tide floated the ship into the harbor. [1913 Webster] Had floated that bell on the Inchcape rock. --Southey. [1913 Webster] 2. To flood; to overflow; to cover with water. [1913 Webster] Proud Pactolus floats the fruitful lands. --Dryden. [1913 Webster] (18 more messages)
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> you win this time
00:54 <luke-jr> lol
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> you kknew what i ment though
00:55 <luke-jr> not really
00:55 <luke-jr> I was wondering wtf you were amazed at
00:55 <luke-jr> but hovering is hardly a miracle
00:55 <luke-jr> even when it defies science, it could even be demonic in nature
00:56 <luke-jr> IIRC, possessed people often hover
00:56 <Your_mom_arma> so your saying magicians are evil?
00:56 <luke-jr> it wouldn't surprise me if many are
00:56 <Your_mom_arma> He's a witch!
00:56 <Vanhayes> ... possesed people
00:56 <Your_mom_arma> luke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=418avmwfx3Y
00:57 <Your_mom_arma> so that guys possesed by the devil?
00:57 <luke-jr> no clue, maybe he's using tricks
00:58 <luke-jr> but it's certainly no guarantee that he's holy
00:58 <Your_mom_arma> i didnt say he was
00:58 <Your_mom_arma> i said believing he could would be similar to believing in miracles
00:59 <luke-jr> Non-belief in miracles is just plain ignorance or denial
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> believe a quarter of what you hear and half of what you see
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> luke ever watched mythbusters?
01:01 <luke-jr> never heard of it
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> meh im bored with arguing with luke
01:01 <luke-jr> 70,000 witnesses to the Fatima miracle
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> its like arguing with someone whos been brainwashed
01:01 <luke-jr> were they all on pot?
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> yes, they were
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> specific doubt about catholicism: I doubt that the god of the Catholics is a real entity
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> was the Fatima miracle the one where Oprah got skinny?
01:18 <Your_mom_arma> haha
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> In 1992 details relating to the apparitions, which had previously been unreleased, were finally revealed. A priest who had interviewed the children at the time of the apparitions reported their description of the Lady wearing a short skirt, earrings and a necklace with a medallion.[14] This did not accord with the norms[15] of modesty expected of the Blessed Virgin and was not included in the official reports at the time.
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> "Jacinta declares that Our Lady's dress goes down only to her knees. Our Lady can only appear dressed, obviously, in the most decent and modest way. The dress would have to come down to her feet. Any other way constitutes the most serious obstacle to the supernaturalism of the apparition and makes us think that it is a mystification prepared by the Spirit of Darkness. But how can we explain the belief of so many thousands
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> of people, their living faith and burning piety, the modesty and the composure they show in all their acts, the silence and behavior of the crowd, the numerous and astonishing conversions caused by the events, the appearance of extraordinary signs in the sky and on the earth, verified by thousands of witnesses? How can we explain, I repeat, all these facts and conciliate them with divine providence and the laws that rule
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> the supernatural world, above all after the establishment of Christianity, if the Demon is the cause of such events? (Documentação, Doc. 7, pp. 66–67, cited in Armada and Fernandes, p. 190)
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> this is all about the Fatima miracle, btw
01:24 <Your_mom_arma> "The children wore tight cords around their waists to cause pain, abstained from drinking water on hot days, and performed other works of penance."-about the children who saw the miracle
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> The short dress worn by the Virgin during the apparitions did not form part of any official description released at the time, instead ,and in sharp contrast, the Virgin was reported as saying: "Certain fashions will be introduced which will offend my Son (Jesus) very much."
01:24 <Your_mom_arma> im quite sure abused children would see "miracles"
01:26 <luke-jr> right, a non-Catholic "priest" claims to have interviewed the children and be told such things, AFTER THE CHILDREN ARE DEAD and thus cannot accuse him
01:26 <Your_mom_arma> so have you guys managed to play player team vs player team civ yet
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> it was probably some woman working as a socialist.  This was 1917, the red revolution was going on in Russia, and socialist movements were going throughout europe
01:26 <luke-jr> he is the only witness to his claims
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> you should check the references on the wikipedia page yourself
01:27 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: nobody said the children were forced to do those things btw
01:27 <luke-jr> the fact that they were works of penence implies they did so of their own free will
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> but it could also hide the fact that they were ordered to by some idiot catholic adult
01:27 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: it was "revealed" in 1992
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> and as idiot catholic adults tend to put it, "Do it my way or go to hell, it's your choice!", which we know damn well is no choice
01:28 <luke-jr> all the children were dead, and the priest was most likely non-Catholic and lying
01:28 <luke-jr> certainly the only witness to his claims
01:28 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["O_o"]
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> so?  It was part of the accounts that were covered up by the church
01:28 <Your_mom_arma> look if they did that on their own accord they had to of had some kind of mental anguish or disability
01:28 <luke-jr> it wasn't, it was made up
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> the priest who did the interviewing was somebody different than the priest who released the account in 1992
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> written accounts made at the time something happened can be hidden and revealed later.  If you don't believe that, you'll have to disregard 90% of your bible
01:29 <Your_mom_arma> btw the third secret sounds like an end of the world prediction that didnt come true
01:29 <luke-jr> where's the written account?
01:29 <luke-jr> Your_mom_arma: the third secret has already happened
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> hell, it could have been some socialist chick that used fancy fireworks effects to appear as a miracle worker to a people who felt very oppressed under the rise of freemasonry in Portugal
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: kept by the catholic church somewhere
01:30 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: then how did a non-Catholic get it?
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> I told *you* the check the references because I don't care enough about it to do it myself
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> because it was released to the public.  Even the catholic church occasionally declassifies shit and releases it to the public.
01:31 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
01:32  * Lucifer_arma notes there's a lot more evidence supporting alien abductions, why do people believe the Fatima miracle but not alien abductions?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> I met a guy who gave me an eyewitness account of being abducted by aliens
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> do I believe he was abducted by aliens?
01:32 <luke-jr> 70,000 who can give a compatible witness of the same event?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> yep
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> read about the UFO crash in Roswell :)
01:32 <Your_mom_arma> burn
01:33 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/Durka/rubber/death-0.0.1.aamap.xml: Resource by Durka
01:33 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/Durka/rubber/win-0.0.1.aamap.xml: Resource by Durka
01:33 <ghableska> are we still on religion?
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> besides, if 70k people give a compatible witness of an event, it's questionable.  People's points of views differ too much.  For any real event, there must be contradiction in 70,000 different peoples' accounts for it to be credible
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> we're trying to move into alien abductions :)
01:34 <ghableska> ah, at least a little more plausible ;)
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> my mother-in-law has seen alien spaceships come down to earth twice in her life so far
01:35 <ghableska> lol
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> she also talks to Jesus every day.  Coincidence?
01:35 <ghableska> heh
01:35 <ghableska> wait, so that means aliens are god's children or whatever?
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> aliens would disprove god, because they're not mentioned at all in the bible, and only things mentioned in the bible are real
01:35 <ghableska> heh
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> everything that originates on this planet is implicitly mentioned in the bible, but aliens by definition are not from this planet
01:36 <Your_mom_arma> lucifer preists can bend words to mean different things so im not so sure of that
01:36 <ghableska> if aliens were discovered, they might just be called "angels"
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> ?  they don't have to bend the words at all, they just need to make new "translations"
01:36 <Your_mom_arma> haha
01:37 <ghableska> was limbo abolished?
01:37 <Your_mom_arma> there probobly are aliens out there somewhere but i cant say whether they've been to earth or not
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> ask nemo, it's his server
01:37 <luke-jr> Limbo is doctrine
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's pretty limo
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> *limbo
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> *limber
01:38 <Your_mom_arma> haha
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> limbo rhymes with bimbo.  Coincidence?
01:39 <ghableska> hahahahaha
01:40 <Your_mom_arma> so have you guys managed a game of team player v player civ yet?
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> not yet
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> I just declared my intention last night of fighting with humans again by invading luke-jr (hi there!) 
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> the ais are all boring now.  I still want ais, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to do humans vs ais by default anymore
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I think we should be more careful about how we treat alliances in the future, and now that we know that allies can win together, maybe we can still have less betrayals
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> whenever humans have fought humans before, there's been alliance betrayals that soured the game.  I suspect that if we're careful about that stuff, we can avoid it.
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> basically it amounts to not using an alliance with a person to take advantage of them and run a sneak attack (I've said all this before)
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> and not forming alliances with people you intend to invade knowing you'll invade them, and maybe the rest of us can agree to go after people who do that shit
01:44 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: I don't break alliances
01:44 <luke-jr> and I ally with AIs all the time
01:45 <luke-jr> so generally, my allies are people nearby me
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, I haven't broken any alliances in awhile :)
01:54 <luke-jr> liar
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> awhile is relative, but I haven't broken any alliances since I sneak attacked you in that one game
02:02 <ghableska> #weather 50265
02:02 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 24.8°F (6:54 PM CST on December 04, 2006). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 10.4°F. Windchill: 17.6°F. Pressure: 30.35 in 1028 hPa. 
02:02 <Vanhayes> #weather saint john
02:02 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 28°F / -2°C | Humidity: 85% | Pressure: 29.70in / 1006hPa | Conditions: Light Snow | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 20mph / 32km/h | Updated: 8:00 PM AST; Tonight - Snow ending this evening then cloudy periods with 30 percent chance of flurries. Wind northwest 20 km/h. Low minus 8.; Tuesday - Sunny with cloudy periods. Wind northwest 20 km/h. High minus 5. Tuesday night..a few clouds. Low (1 more message)
02:02 <Vanhayes> #more
02:02 <armabot> Vanhayes: minus 13.; Wednesday - Periods of snow or rain. High plus 2.;
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> #weather 78717
02:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The current temperature in Meadows of Brushy Creek, Austin, Texas is 46.4°F (7:04 PM CST on December 04, 2006). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 21.2°F. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa. 
02:07  * Lucifer_arma has also never broken an alliance with spidey (hi there!) 
02:07  * Lucifer_arma has had alliances with Your_mom_arma (hi there!) break as collateral damage, though.
02:07 <ghableska> nice tab completion
02:08  * Vanhayes has broken every alliance with luke that he can remember
02:10 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: you broke alliance with me last night
02:11 <Vanhayes> mostly because he usually has little or no def and always settles on or way to close to my land, even when I tell him not to
02:11 <luke-jr> that's a dumb expectation
02:11 <luke-jr> alliance means you're united together
02:11 <Vanhayes> that my ally will respect my border?
02:11 <luke-jr> eg, one country more or less
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: we didn't have an alliance last night
02:12 <luke-jr> yes we did
02:12 <luke-jr> or was that Dutch
02:12 <luke-jr> O.o
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> that was dutch
02:12 <luke-jr> o
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> we only had peace because I didn't want you to figure out I was going to attack you :)
02:12 <luke-jr> now the part that annoyed me was
02:12 <luke-jr> I had almost attacked you 2 or 3 times thinking you were someone else
02:13 <luke-jr> then I find out I should have
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, that was your own problem.  I joined that game for one and only one reason, to annihilate you.
02:13 <luke-jr> so you lied
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> ?  yeah, I did do some dishonest things, but I didn't ally with you and use an alliance against you
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> I got shared vision from the sumerians, who had it with you, and that's it.
02:14 <luke-jr> and made a peace treaty with me
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> I also lied on the ceasefire, I've got enough troops now in your land that when the ceasefire's over, I'll walk all over what's left
02:14 <luke-jr> you think
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> 20 howitzers is pretty convincing
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> ~10 artillery
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> the artillery's obsolete, obviously
02:15 <luke-jr> not if I move all my mech inf to one city
02:15 <Vanhayes> ha
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> good luck
02:15 <luke-jr> not to mention, that's only one part of my land
02:15 <Vanhayes> what a plan
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> you might hold out in that one city for a little while, but I'm putting out 4 howitzers every 2 turns on my homeland
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> and in two of the cities I took from you, I'm putting out howitzers every 3 turns
02:16 <luke-jr> no surprise there
02:16 <luke-jr> you took my best cities
02:16 <luke-jr> which were admittedly undefended as I usually do
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> and while I don't know where you've settled since I declared war on you, I did have an up to date map of all of your territory the same turn I invaded
02:16  * luke-jr usually sets those to produce Mech Inf and fortify them all there
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> you've got to understand, the units I sent to your homeland were a suicidal force
02:17 <luke-jr> yes, but you're not prepared to even attack that
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> they weren't expected to live :)
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> I've got the logistics train to hit all of your cities, but it will take a few turns to get it rolling against your southern cities
02:17 <luke-jr> you think
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> but you're land-connected to an area very near mine, so I can railroad my way to you and won't have to supply by ship
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> I've got 5 transports, and I only stopped there because it's all I need to fight where I'm fighting
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I had 23 submarines when we quit last night :)
02:19 <Vanhayes> so are all the freeciv games from now on going to be that big?
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> 2 of them are fully loaded with missiles, but I'll switch missile production to bombers when I start preparing to hit your other cities
02:19 <luke-jr> wait what
02:19 <luke-jr> subs can hold missiles??
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> bombers are more useful for long-range campaigns than missiles, I've decided
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> yes
02:20 <GodTodd> submarines are the ones that like being on bottom
02:20  * Lucifer_arma is a submarine
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> what did you think I hit you with when I attaacked?
02:20 -!- Commn is now known as Compn
02:20 <luke-jr> I didn't know how they got nearby
02:20 <GodTodd> they're the bitches of the marine on marine relationship
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> I cleared the target cities with missiles, then used a marine to take the coastal city I needed
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> then I moved the transport in it and unloaded
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> when you do that, you get full movement of the units on it
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's how I broke in and took 4 cities in one turn
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it was more, I forget.  I only know that the next turn I withdrew all my units to defend the one coastal city so I could bring more units in
02:21 <luke-jr> you could have unloaded them on land and I probably wouldn't have noticed..
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> That was after you destroyed Kyoto, where most of your wonders were, and I decided not to try to hold a city that didn't exist anymore
02:22 <luke-jr> erm
02:22 <luke-jr> I didn't destroy it
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> Kyoto was my primary target, and the forces didn't have to survive the ttack :)
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, when you went to reoccupy it it was destroyed
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> I knocked it to 1 point when I took it, and you retook it and destroyed it
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> so while I didn't get the wonders for myself, their usage was denied to everybody, which was an acceptable result
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, I can't see cities in the diplomacy dialog, so I'm not likely to accept treaties with people I'm at war with
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> that also means I didn't know you were giving me a city for the cease fire
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> I would have removed the city from the treaty if I'd see it, sorry about that
02:27 <luke-jr> o
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> and since we were at war, I couldn't really trust you to read the dialog to me
02:28 <luke-jr> the Alliance one had 2-3 cities
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> there's no telling, you could have sneaked some of my own cities into it, heh
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, maybe I'll fire up my regular client for treaties like that.  I wish I knew why the warclient doesn't show cities or techs, though.
02:29 <luke-jr> *g*
02:29 <luke-jr> that wouldn't been fun
02:29 <luke-jr> next time remind me to steal all your cities :p
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'm in agreement with spidey (hi there!) .  Fighting the ais is getting boring, I want to fight humans instead, but I don't want to have alliances break down like they did at first.
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not saying alliances can't break down, just that I want it to happen without souring the game.
02:30 <luke-jr> I don't want to fight :p
02:30 <GodTodd> heh...that leaves luke out
02:30 <GodTodd> afaik
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> and after a sneak attack, I think a cease fire should be given if it's asked for.  That's the main reason I gave you a cease-fire, and have honored it, and will honor it.
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you were a more reliable ally, you could back me in a fight.  Do whatever you want, just feed me techs for fighting.
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> But Vanhayes (hi there!) is right, as an ally you always infringe on other people's spaces
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> we establish borders, claim islands and shit, and you don't respect them
02:32 <luke-jr> I like to have cities near others
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> there's more to being a good ally than not attacking
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, we don't want our cities too close.  Connect them with roads/rail later, but honor the damn borders!
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> I like both Vanhayes (hi there!) and spidey (hi there!) as allies because I know that I can establish borders with them and they'll honor them
02:33 <luke-jr> and no, I won't honour "I claim that isle" right when I find it
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> why?
02:33 <luke-jr> can't do roads/rail when I'm not on the isle
02:33 <luke-jr> why? because I FOUND THE FSCKING PLACE
02:33 <luke-jr> if you want it, get a settler there
02:34 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: I was joking about most of them
02:34 <luke-jr> but don't go calling it verbally
02:34 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: o
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> the one occasion I know about, you weren't the first to find it, someone (I think Vanhayes) was sending a settler already
02:34 <GodTodd> #joke
02:34 <armabot> By royal decree, all humor has hereby been expunged from this channel. If you feel you absolutely *have* to be funny please find a channel where people are able to understand jokes.
02:34 <Vanhayes> ya
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> *two occasions, the second one was me, and I enforced my claim with muskets
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> but we weren't allies, we were only at Peace
02:35 <luke-jr> I thought Luci did it once
02:35 <luke-jr> but then I found he had settled it later
02:35 <Vanhayes> I almost always honor borders, the only time I havent that I can remember is that time with fluffy where the border moved 2 over
02:35 <luke-jr> so I gave him my city
02:35 <Vanhayes> woops
02:35 <luke-jr> err, I later found he had settled it first
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> you had to find I settled it, but I already told you I settled it
02:35 <luke-jr> I just want to have a 1 city on the same continent
02:35 <Vanhayes> ah there I kept forgeting to save after deleting that auto replace
02:35 <luke-jr> or maybe a few if it's large
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> when you were out there with a boat, I said "I've already started settling that island"
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> you put your city there anyway, so I resolved to take it from you, and if it meant total war, I was getting ready for it
02:36 <luke-jr> must've missed that?
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, when we're split up on continents, I don't want to have cities on the same continent :)
02:36 <luke-jr> why?
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> not my home continent anyway, you know, where my capital is
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> although, I'm considering making an exchange of cities a requirement for an alliance with me
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> think of it as a way of enforcing the alliance :)
02:37 <luke-jr> erm
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> also, it would be a lot easier for me to defend my science partner if our cities were intermingled
02:37 <luke-jr> so what you're saying is
02:37 <luke-jr> you want an alliance before I have a city on your continent
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> Peace != alliance
02:38 <luke-jr> so what you're saying is
02:38 <luke-jr> you want an alliance before I have a city on your continent
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
02:38 <armabot> pong
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't want an alliance unless there's a real need for it
02:39 <luke-jr> fending AIs off is a real need for me
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> spidey and I stay at peace until we get to each other's areas with caravans/freights.  Then we ally so the freights can have free movement
02:39 <luke-jr> I don't want to do military until forced
02:39 <GodTodd> fending off ais should force it ;)
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, I ally with ais too, but I build my own defenses
02:40 <luke-jr> my point being
02:40 <luke-jr> that allies make AIs less likely to pick on you
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> see, something you seem to be missing, you could ally with an ai near you, right?
02:40 <luke-jr> I try
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> and that ai might be at war with an ai near *me*
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> and if I ally with you, the ai near me will attack me
02:40 <luke-jr> I don't think it works that way
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> it's in my best interests to avoid alliances as much as possible
02:40 <luke-jr> I think I'd need to be at war w/ the AI near you myself
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> well, it does.
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't declare war on that ai, your ally with break the alliance
02:41 <luke-jr> sometimes
02:41 <GodTodd> luke-jr: ever heard the saying "the friend of my enemy is my enemy"?
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> always.  It always happens.  I had the Dutch saying "Declare war on luke!"
02:41 <luke-jr> well, I guess usually that AI declares war on me first
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> probably.  :)
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> spidey and I both allied with the dutch to keep him from going after us
02:42 <luke-jr> GodTodd: want to play tonight?
02:42 <luke-jr> I allied w/ Dutch too :p
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> I declared war on the sioux finally because the dutch told me to, but I didn't want to
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> you did it after a human took him over, spidey and I were dealing with him as an ai
02:42 <luke-jr> I was at war w/ Sioux too
02:42 <GodTodd> sounds like there're too many wuss rules...so i dunno
02:42 <luke-jr> no, I allied w/ Dutch before that
02:42 <luke-jr> and he broke it off
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> wuss rules?
02:42 <GodTodd> yeah...like don't attack luke and let him settle wherever
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: let's play as a team and intermingle our cities :)
02:43 <luke-jr> GodTodd: actually, I don't know if I'm going to trust you all to follow those rules :p
02:43  * luke-jr thinks the ruleset should make alliances unbreakable :p
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see how the game goes when we know ahead of time who our allies will be, and play a team game, but later on probably won't want to do that, just play it where the cards lie
02:43 <GodTodd> luke-jr: smart...cuz those rules would be broken faster than a whore's back
02:43 <luke-jr> GodTodd: those ones you cited were never rules btw
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> if the ruleset made alliances unbreakable, I'd *never* make alliances
02:44 <Vanhayes> hmm, are teams unbreakable?
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> teams are unbreakable!
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> you create them before the game
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> teammates spawn next to each other
02:44 <luke-jr> I don't want predetermined alliances tho
02:44 <Vanhayes> why not...
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> well, I want to do it to find out how the game flows when we fight humans vs humans
02:44 <luke-jr> boring
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> ?  there are other alliances...
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> there's a reason I want to do it with 3 teams instead of 2 :)
02:45 <luke-jr> eh?
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> being on a team doesn't mean you can't make other alliances
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, anyway
02:45 <luke-jr> yes it does
02:45 <luke-jr> last time I played teams anyhow
02:45 <GodTodd> luke needs his own team
02:45 <Vanhayes> hmm Id like to try teams next time we all play
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> it might have been setup that way, teams can always do diplomacy with themselves no matter how it's setup
02:46 <luke-jr> only if I get 4x starting units :p
02:46 <GodTodd> sure...all explorers :P
02:46 <luke-jr> so shall we try teams tonight?
02:46 <luke-jr> we have enough players I think
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, I wouldn't object to having starting units as long as there's a ton of settlers and workers :)
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> maybe after 11pm or so, for me
02:46 <luke-jr> that's way too late...
02:46 <luke-jr> that'd give us an hour before bedtime
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> that's when I can play :/
02:47 <GodTodd> yeah...luke's wife would never go for that
02:47 <luke-jr> what's stopping you from playing now?
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> the fact that I'm about to go into the kitchen and cook dinner for my family
02:47 <luke-jr> ...
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, I should already be in there
02:47 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma: lame
02:47 <GodTodd> heh
02:47 <Vanhayes> well I cant tonight, too late already
02:47 <luke-jr> we can take breaks
02:47 <luke-jr> omg
02:47 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: baby
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> ?
02:47 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: school
02:47 <luke-jr> it's nowhere near late
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> you won't play past midnight and vanhayes is a baby somehow?
02:47 <luke-jr> it's not even 8 pm
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> 7:47
02:48 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: its almost 10
02:48 <GodTodd> Vanhayes: but school is lame
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> and it's after 8 where Vanhayes (hi there!) is
02:48 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: I thought you were in Canada?
02:48 <luke-jr> and 10 isn't that late
02:48 <Vanhayes> I am
02:48  * Lucifer_arma shows luke-jr (hi there!) a map of Canada's timezones
02:48 <luke-jr> does Canada have a timezone east of US?
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> yes
02:48 <luke-jr> wtf
02:48 <Vanhayes> atlantic
02:48 <luke-jr> that's dumb
02:48 <luke-jr> Vanhayes: move to midwest or texas
02:48 <Vanhayes> your dumb, timezones make sense
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, vanhayes is in EST anyway, right?
02:48 <luke-jr> anyhow, 10 isn't that late
02:48 <ghableska> no
02:49 <luke-jr> timezones don't make sense
02:49 <Vanhayes> Im atlantic
02:49 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: Eastern is 8:49
02:49 <Vanhayes> -4 GMT now I think
02:49 <GodTodd> neither does catholocism but you agree with it
02:49 <GodTodd> :P
02:49 <luke-jr> yes it does
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> oh right, EST is only 1 hour ahead of me, heh
02:50 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: 2 right now
02:50 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: well Im pretty tired and ill probly be asleep in an hour or so
02:50 <luke-jr> but Eastern != EST right now
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> um, yeah it is
02:50 <luke-jr> no, it's EDT...
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> daylight savings is in the summer, when it'd be EDT
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> no, you're backwards :)
02:50 <luke-jr> whatever
02:50 <luke-jr> DST is dumber than TZs
02:50 <Vanhayes> hmm when does it get dark there?
02:50 <luke-jr> like 5
02:50 <GodTodd> there's the witty reply i've come to expect from luke :)
02:51 <GodTodd> <luke-jr> whatever
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> 5:30-6
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> lemme guess, it gets dark where you're at like at 3pm?
02:51 <luke-jr> why should the time change to make the sun go down earlier?
02:51 <Vanhayes> nah, 5 ish is about right
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> sun comes up around 10am?
02:52 <Vanhayes> sun comes up around 6-7
02:52 <luke-jr> why are we asking each other these dumb questions about when the sun does what?
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> that's what Seattle was like near the winter solstice
02:52 <luke-jr> with timezones it should be the same for all of us
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> no
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> when people are farther north, the sunrises later and sets earlier
02:52 <luke-jr> fun, so timezones don't even serve *THAT* purpose
02:52 <luke-jr> they're really useless
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> no they're not :)
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> 9-5 means the same thing everywhere
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> if we didn't have timezones, 9-5 in GMT would be some weird hour in Texas
02:53 <luke-jr> as if "work hours" is so hard
02:53 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@a0204.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["⌘Q"]
02:53 <luke-jr> 9-5 GMT is still a weird hour in TX
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, it means you adjust your equipment when you move
02:53 <Vanhayes> luke-jr: invent a better system or stop complaining
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> instead of adjusting your thoughts
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> while I'm not opposed to adjusting thoughts, I do know that when you live in an area most of the time and go to new areas some of the time, those time-besd habits are ingrained
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> and probably nearly impossible to deal with
02:54 <luke-jr> right, because it's so hard to get used to different work hours
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> but for people that travel a lot, it doesn't matter either way
02:55 <luke-jr> for people that do international communications, it serves as a pain in the butt often
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> how?
02:55 <luke-jr> that's almost everyone these days
02:55 <luke-jr> scheduling stuff
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> not if everyone knows their offset from GMT and does their scheduling off GMT
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> so I say "let's meet at 10:00 GMT"
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> you adjust it for your clock, I adjust it for mine
02:56 <luke-jr> right, because everyone knows their offset
02:56 <luke-jr> DST screws up most who do
02:56 <Vanhayes> -4
02:56 <luke-jr> heck, even I don't know my offset
02:56 <luke-jr> but then I avoid timezones anyway
02:56 <Vanhayes> its not really hard
02:56 <luke-jr> I'm -5 or -6
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> -6
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> -5 in daylight savings
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, until recently, most people didn't have to worry about it
02:57 <Vanhayes> anyways, good night
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd wager that most people still don't have to worry about it
02:57 <Vanhayes> #night
02:57 <armabot> Good night Vanhayes!
02:57 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu83w-156034245011.nb.aliant.net] has quit [""Quit/Exited/Left/Went Away/Hit the Little X button""]
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> I need to go cook dinner, bbl
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04:25 <spidey> #ping
04:25 <armabot> pong
04:34 <ghableska> #weather 50265
04:34 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 24.8°F (8:54 PM CST on December 04, 2006). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 10.4°F. Windchill: 17.6°F. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027 hPa. 
04:38 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
04:38 <armabot> pong
04:38 <ghableska> #pong
04:38 <armabot> ping
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04:43 <DrJoeTr0n> ahahaha the SA boards were digg'd
04:43 <DrJoeTr0n> no wonder why they've been running like crap
04:44 <DrJoeTr0n> it was for a thread about a guy who recognized their sister in a porno :p http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2191192
04:45 <Compn> hahaha
04:45 <Compn> sounds funny
04:46 <DrJoeTr0n> im so glad i registered :)
04:46 <DrJoeTr0n> il be back
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05:04 <ghableska> #night
05:04 <armabot> Good night ghableska!
05:04 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has left #Armagetron []
05:26 <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: spidey GodTodd
05:28 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r6472 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/DCT.txt: DCT plans
05:30 <DrJoeTr0n> ko
05:34 <spidey> luke-jr, 
05:34 <luke-jr> 5555
05:38 <spidey> luke-jr, unai me
05:38 <luke-jr> in a bit
05:39 <spidey> ..
05:40 <luke-jr> ah, I see
05:41 <luke-jr> ok, restarted
05:42 <luke-jr> come play now
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> this the same game as last night?
05:54 <luke-jr> no
05:54 <luke-jr> size 6
05:56 <luke-jr> um
05:56 <luke-jr> Swedish AI just bought...
06:01 <GodTodd> ...a hooker for you?
06:02 <spidey> i wanna finish that game from last night
06:02 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, luke-jr !
06:04 <luke-jr> I don't
06:05 <spidey> ...
06:06 <spidey> then find someone else to play with :|
06:08 <spidey> we rarely finish a game, and i'm getting tired of building a new civ over other day
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06:14 <Lucifer_arma> he doesn't want to finish it because he knows I'm going to wipe him out
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> can't blame him for that
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: spidey (hi there!) GodTodd (hi there!) you guys playing a game right now?
06:16 <spidey> his fault
06:16 <spidey> he fucking smallpoxs, not building anything else
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> it's not his fault I invaded him.  :)  He did talk trash to try to incite me to play a game...
06:16 <spidey> if he took the time to build maybe 20 cities instead of 50-60 he might actually do something besides lose them
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> if he was willing to settle for a slower rate of growth, he could still build a fuckload of cities and have them well-defended
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, if we always disable the space race, what's the point of playing peacefully?  war is all that's left...
06:17 <spidey> yea
06:17 <spidey> and AI's are boring
06:17 <spidey> it's like
06:17 <spidey> "zomg i'm being invaded, it's there ass now"
06:18 <spidey> "40 turns later"
06:18 <spidey> "pwned bitches"
06:18 <spidey> ;x
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> right!
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> and "Oh well, I guess I"ll have to pick up science on the fly then"
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> because you know that after you wipe out the first ai, you'll have the best science again anyway
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> and you can keep on fighting, commie no less!  and still get techs before everyone else
06:19 <spidey> haha
06:19 <spidey> how true
06:19 <spidey> but, i get like 600pts/turn no matter how many cities i got :p
06:20 <Lucifer_arma> in that game we were playing on the islands, I got up to 1200 points/turn at one point
06:20 <spidey> i had 947 at 70% science
06:20 <Lucifer_arma> it was a continued portion after you ai'd yourself, and we restored from an earlier spot
06:20 <spidey> stupid cities would revolt if i didn't put lux at 30%
06:21 <Lucifer_arma> I think we should go back to small maps, fewer ais, more techs to start, more gold, more settlers
06:21 <Lucifer_arma> just because we might be able to shave off 4-6 hours of the game
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06:21 <spidey> yea
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> on the one hand, I like the freedom the bigger map gives you, but then you wind up with a game that'll take weeks to get to a declared end
06:22 <spidey> is there a way to set a limit to the amount of cities a nation can "build" not including the conquored cities?
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> but it's a foregone conclusion the humans will win now
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't think there is :(
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> another thing I'm thinking, maybe we should prep games
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> where we get like 4-5 people to start a game, agree to do no war on each other
06:23 <spidey> hmmm
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> play it until we get modern tech, then save it off
06:23 <spidey> nah
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> leave it for a month or so, then come back and everybody has to pick a civ other than the one they prepped
06:23 <spidey> because most people will smallpox
06:23 <spidey> i don't like smallpoxing
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> citymindist
06:23 <spidey> doesn't matter
06:23 <spidey> only thing that does is make them build further apart
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> the problem I'm having is that it takes 4-6 hours to build up to a point where you can start preparing a war
06:24 <spidey> they'll still build a ton of cities
06:24 <spidey> i don't know
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to just start with a map that's already filled in the civs and you can start the war right away
06:24 <spidey> 20 turns into this game i had gunpowder
06:24 <spidey> lol
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, let's start with like 20-50 techs or so
06:24 <spidey> yea
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> so you just have to build your cities, rapture them up, and explore
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> nothing but settlers even
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> like 15 settlers
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> big starting radius
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> so you can build a city with most of them on the first turn :)
06:26 <spidey> heh
06:26 <spidey> honestly
06:26 <spidey> i don't want AI's
06:26 <spidey> none at all
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> I want ais, but I want them excluded from victory conditions
06:28 <spidey> i just don't want them :p
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, we need more than just you and me for a game then :)
06:32 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: luke-jr (hi there!) ?
06:33 <luke-jr> wtf
06:33 <luke-jr> we're already playing foo
06:33 <spidey> well
06:33 <spidey> basically it turns into
06:33 <spidey> "if i pwn this AI i'll have twice the firerate and twice the chance of pwning this human over here"
06:39 <DrJoeTr0n> your "o" button works, spazz. :V
06:40 <spidey> des nt
06:40 <spidey> des nawt
06:40 <spidey> haha
06:40 <spidey> i'ma start using nawt
06:40 <spidey> ;x
06:41 <luke-jr> <Adolf Spidey> to bad
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08:18 <Durka> #lastseen oposal
08:19 <Durka> #lastseen sneak
08:19 <Durka> #lastseen I Hate Durka!
08:19 <Durka> #lastseen I Hate Durka!2
08:19 <armabot> Durka: timed out
08:19 <Durka> #lastseen armabot
08:20 <armabot> Durka: )PWNsneak has last been seen on Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress 5 days 18 hours 26 minutes ago.
08:20 <armabot> Durka: I Hate Durka! has last been seen on  Wild West - Wild Fortress 9 minutes ago.
08:21 <armabot> Durka: timed out
08:22 <armabot> Durka: timed out
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10:52 <spidey> wtf
10:52 <spidey> #google search test
10:52 <armabot> spidey: Error: Error connecting to Google.com.
10:53 <spidey> Firefox can't find the server at www.google.com.
10:53 <spidey> anyone else get thaT? =/
10:59 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: ?
11:00 <spidey> well
11:00 <spidey> i get google can't be found
11:00 <spidey> so does armabot =/
11:00 <spidey> #google search test
11:00 <armabot> spidey: Search took 0.11 seconds: Peterson's - College and Graduate School Planning, Test ...: <http://www.petersons.com/>; OSDL - Search Test Runs: <http://www.osdl.org/lab_activities/kernel_testing/stp/search.lnk/redirect_link>; Welcome to the Self-Directed Search ...the world's most widely used ...: <http://www.self-directed-search.com/>; SAT Registration - SAT Scores - College Search - College Admissions: (2 more messages)
11:01 <spidey> gay
11:08 <spidey> wow
11:08 <spidey> my router's being gay
11:08 <spidey> #ping
11:08 <armabot> pong
11:08 <spidey> brb
11:08 <spidey> #ping
11:08 <armabot> pong
11:08 <spidey> #ping
11:09 <armabot> pong
11:10 <spidey> wow
11:10 <spidey> #ping
11:10 <armabot> pong
11:10 <spidey> ...
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
11:10 <armabot> pong
11:10 <spidey> i don't understand that
11:10 <spidey> did i leave?
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> what?
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> no
11:10 <spidey> i turned the router off, then back on
11:10 <spidey> least webpages load now ;x
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> heh
11:11 <Lucifer_arma> I figured out why me and luke are seeing each other fighting the vietnamese
11:11 <spidey> why?
11:11 <Lucifer_arma> he's moving north and I'm moving south, and we're not far from each other now
11:11 <Lucifer_arma> when we started, the vietnamese were between us
11:12 <spidey> hmm
11:12 <spidey> i'ma play with these pictures and photoshop
11:12 <spidey> maybe i can make some good looking transport units and such :)
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> :)
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> make an air freight for me ;)
11:13 <spidey> ok
11:14 <spidey> i was thinking about a city radar
11:24 <spidey> hm
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> I keep meaning to look and see if I can make a building that'll expand city vision
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> I change my mind, I don't think an air freight would be useful
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> just build an air transport and load it up with freight, that should be sufficient
11:25 <spidey> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1778/airfrieghtfm5.gif
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I can use that as a robotic bomber/fighter or something
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> you might keep in mind I want to extend techs into the future to allow for a robotic arsenal, and then a fusion-based series of units like plasma cannons and stuff
11:28 <spidey> heh
11:28 <spidey> k
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> City_Vision_Radius_Sq
11:29 <Lucifer_arma>     Increase city vision radius in squared distance by amount tiles.
11:30 <spidey> hmm
11:31 <Lucifer_arma> I was wanting to make a ground-based building that increases city vision by some amount, then a couple of satellites that become available that do even more for each city
11:32 <Lucifer_arma> regular buildings that you can build, the satellites would be, not wonders.
11:32 <Lucifer_arma> graphics for buildings aren't that important unless you really want them, units are obviously very important
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'd also like to push chemical rocket technology to where you get semiballistic transports that have a range like an icbm
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> means you can't just defend coastal cities anymore :)
11:38 <spidey> heh
11:50 <spidey> hmm
11:51 <spidey> i'm not sure what this is but whatever
11:51 <spidey> http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9810/imnotreallysuredp2.gif
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not sure either :/
11:52 <spidey> i'll call it
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> the tileset I'm putting this stuff in wants 30x30.  I can try to scale it to fit.
11:52 <spidey> "spideysucksatphotoshop fighter"
11:52 <spidey> :D
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> I think the unit tiles can be used in the iso tilesets
11:53 <spidey> hm
11:53 <spidey> that's like
11:53 <spidey> 96x96
11:53 <spidey> i can't do 30x30 it's way to pixelated when i zoom in :/
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> I can scale it, but there's going to be some loss....
11:54 <spidey> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6386/testmr6.jpg
11:55 <spidey> ;x
11:55 <spidey> that's like
11:56 <spidey> #date
11:56 <armabot> I was just gonna say, eight o'clock?
11:56 <spidey> #time
11:56 <armabot> spidey: 11:59 AM, December 05, 2006
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, looks like the iso sets use the same images as the top-down sets
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> for units, that is
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> try cropping all the whitespace out before scaling it down :)
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's pretty small
11:57 <spidey> lol
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> you can run it right to the edges if you want, some of the unit tiles already do that
12:02 <guru3> gotta hate it when
12:02 <guru3> there's some stupid ass unsheduled seminar thing
12:02 <guru3> in your work room
12:03 <guru3> "undergraduate workroom"
12:03 <guru3> i'm an undergraduate
12:03 <guru3> AND I CANT WORK THERE CAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON IN THERE
12:08 <[Xpert]DarkStar> and what is going on there?
12:08 <[Xpert]DarkStar> ah
12:08 <[Xpert]DarkStar> ><
12:08 <guru3> i found a chair in a landing by the stair case
12:08 <guru3> it has an outlet nearby
12:08 <guru3> and is in range of wifi
12:08 <guru3> im set until the next lexture
12:21 <spidey> http://files.filefront.com/alienarena+2006+x86run/;4295821;/fileinfo.html
12:22 <guru3> is it in portage?
12:23 <spidey> ?
12:23 <guru3> nevermind
12:23 <spidey> that's the linux install, there's a windows one somewhere
12:24 <spidey> i've done closed it :/
12:24 <guru3> alien arena 2007 is out it seems
12:24 <spidey> yea
12:24 <spidey> i had it, before i formatted
12:25 <spidey> http://red.planetarena.org/
12:26 <guru3> remind me to dl it @ some point
12:26 <spidey> only if i can remember to download it..
12:27 <guru3> jk alreadying dling
12:28 <spidey> heh
12:29 <guru3> an hour to dl
12:29 <guru3> i'll try it well later
12:30 <spidey> ;p
12:31 <guru3> woo got tron running on here
12:31 <guru3> maybe play some of that
12:31 <guru3> afk
12:32 <guru3> i'm on CP
12:32 <spidey> cp?
12:34 <guru3> classic play
12:34 <guru3> i'm sad to learn ppl playing on it
12:34 <guru3> appear to be dicks
12:36 <spidey> heh
12:36 <spidey> wow@ my ping
12:36 <spidey> o.o
13:02 <guru3> yeah well
13:02 <guru3> i'm off to class now
13:06 <spidey> cy
13:06 <spidey> cya
13:11 <spidey> Special note: Due to the massive filesize of this release, it is recommended that you use the browser Firefox. Internet Explorer most likely can not handle the file.
13:11 <spidey> is 2.5gb big??? :p
13:14 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
13:17 <spidey> 2 hour download at 389kb/s
13:17 <spidey> >.>
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13:24 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: you know that a char can't hold values from 0 to 0x100?
13:33 <spidey> #cnn 38256
13:33 <armabot> spidey: The current temperature in Paris, TN is 25.0°F. Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Wind: W at 3 mph (5 km/h).
13:39 -!- Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3
13:40  * wrtlprnft spams because guru3 isn't there :D
13:40 <spidey> lol
13:42 -!- Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3
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13:46 <Lucifer_arma> spam
13:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: too late.
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I wanted guru3 (hi there!) to see my spam?
13:49 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/tron/cockpit/cMap.h:130: warning: ‘cWidget::Map::m_currentMode’ will be initialized after
13:49 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/tron/cockpit/cMap.h:119: warning:   ‘std::auto_ptr<cWidget::Map::Clipper> cWidget::Map::m_clipper’
13:49 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/tron/cockpit/cMap.cpp:512: warning:   when initialized here
13:49 <wrtlprnft> rm -f libtron.a
13:49 <wrtlprnft> how i HATE these warnings
13:49 <wrtlprnft> as if i CARED what gets initialized first
13:51 <z-man-work> you do care if one initialization depends on the other.
13:52 <z-man-work> and the poor compiler has no way of figuring that out (well, it has, but you know how it is)
13:53 <wrtlprnft> yeah, true
13:53 <wrtlprnft> anyways, in the current trunk it's easy to miss a warning under tons of ruby stuff
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=101&engine=2&dockey=xml/f/4/f4f08f7e6c8d69e79031b079f7a2b411@endecaindex&source=19&FREE_TEXT=php+programmer+python+c%2B%2B+linux  <-- how can you *not* want this job?
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> if I'm somehow not a shoe-in for this job, then they don't know what they want :)
13:54 <z-man-work> The ruby warnings only come while the Ruby bindings are compiled, or am I wrong?
13:54 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but i have them enabled in case i feel like doing some scripting
13:55 <wrtlprnft> the danger is that if i don't have it compiled in permanently i might want to try it out someday, but lose interest before i get it to compile
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> I have that same problem with my cat
13:58 <wrtlprnft> compiling your cat?
13:58 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r6473 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
13:58 <armabot> armagetronad: Added a new clipping mode, an ellipse. It uses lines to clip, so it's limited to
13:58 <armabot> armagetronad: how many GL_CLIP_PLANEs you have. That mans it's a boring hexagon for me, but I
13:58 <armabot> armagetronad: hope it'll look good for someone with a better graphics card.
13:59 <wrtlprnft> wow, and the ci went through w/o errors
14:00  * Lucifer_arma doesn't have a cat
14:01 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:03 <z-man-work> So you don't know whether you may one day want a cat?
14:04 <z-man-work> clipping modes? What is clipped?
14:04 <wrtlprnft> the minimap
14:04 <z-man-work> ah
14:04 <wrtlprnft> you were supposed to see that from the filenames, but armabot doesn't show them
14:04 <z-man-work> can it now be zoomed in on you?
14:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah
14:04 <z-man-work> cool
14:05 <wrtlprnft> thanks to voodoo, to a large degree
14:05 <z-man-work> voodoo the user?
14:05 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Cockpit_Tutorial#Map_Settings
14:05 -!- cusco [n=Tiago@cpc2-swin6-0-0-cust997.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
14:05 <wrtlprnft> the player
14:05 <cusco> hey!
14:05 <cusco> long time no play!
14:05 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=8491 ← this voodoo
14:06 <wrtlprnft> looks like I've got to implement my own clipping :(
14:06 <cusco> !who's THE player
14:07 <wrtlprnft> opengl doesn't seem to support more than 6 clipping plane no matter what the graphics card is
14:07 <z-man-work> darn, don't join in the middle of a conversation and try to understand it :)
14:07 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: yes, the clipping is mainly for the view frustum clipping
14:07 <z-man-work> Umm, were it is done already by other means, so that argument doesn't count.
14:08 <wrtlprnft> just wanted to say, didn't see any effects of it on other rendering
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> hell, I've been watching it since it started and I don't understand it
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> er
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> heh
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> #night
14:30 <armabot> Good night Lucifer_arma!
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16:11 <spidey> DrJoeTr0n, get americas army
16:12 <spidey> i keep shooting the drill sargent cause he won't stfu, so i'm still doing basic training :/
17:26 -!- luke-jr_work [n=luke-jr@user-0c93tj3.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:39 <DrJoeTr0n> ewww
17:39 <DrJoeTr0n> americas army?
17:40 <DrJoeTr0n> that was great when i was on dial up
17:40 <DrJoeTr0n> but since im not any more
17:40 <DrJoeTr0n> :)
17:40 <DrJoeTr0n> off to class!
17:42 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: i suggest you fix durka's server? he's your client…
17:42 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=117471#117471
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21:07 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/zero/Rubber/Multi-death-0.0.1.aamap.xml: Resource by zero
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21:23 <wrtlprnft> #g sqrt(2)^-1
21:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: sqrt(2)^(-1) = 0.707106781
21:23 <wrtlprnft> #g 2.82843 / 0.707106781
21:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2.82843 / 0.707106781 = 4.00000407
21:24 <wrtlprnft> interesting…
21:26 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft: do you use X-chat?
21:26 <luke-jr_work> or anyone
21:26 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:26 <luke-jr_work> the colours Konversation uses just don't sit right w/ me... :p
21:26 <luke-jr_work> z-man: hi
21:26  * wrtlprnft uses IRSSI, still
21:28 <luke-jr_work> o
21:28 <luke-jr_work> spidey: 
21:29 <wrtlprnft> he uses mirc or something like that IIRC
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/zero/Rubber/Multi-death-0.0.01.aamap.xml: Resource by zero
21:32 <Compn> #serverinfo cafe
21:32 <armabot> Compn: Fortress Café: Players (4/32): Blitz, Kamakazi, SwornTOKill, ~*SP*~viper~
21:40 <Compn> #serverinfo cafe
21:40 <armabot> Compn: Fortress Café: Players (6/32): Blitz, Kamakazi, snotmaster, SwornTOKill, wrtlprnft |mbc|, ~*SP*~viper~
21:40 <Compn> it grows!
21:56 <Compn> it grows!
21:56 <Vanhayes> #armaservers
21:56 <Compn> #serverinfo cafe
21:56 <armabot> Vanhayes: Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress (14 players) || ¬ | D u r k a D u r k a L a n d | ¬/xff9900 (14 players) || Norm's Place (12 players) || Tigers Network Classic Play (11 players) || (Moo) Clan [ Cow Farm ] (9 players) || Strawberry Fields (8 players) || Tigers Network Speed Blast (8 players) || Chico's Brake Boost Styball (6 players) || The Tavern [armagetronad.de] (5 players) || Wild West - Wild Fortress (4 (1 more message)
21:56 <armabot> Compn: Fortress Café: Players (11/32): Blitz, G5, Johnyboy, Kamakazi, Player 1, snotmaster, wrtlprnft |mbc|, |AST| FoFo, |AST| }{Alex}{, ~*SP*~Sasha, ~Coin~
21:56 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: looks like your server doesnt show up on that
21:56 <Vanhayes> #more
21:56 <armabot> Vanhayes: players) || Carina Epsilon (high speed) (4 players) || Legendary Clan Server ^}LC}< (3 players) || Shrunkland in 2.8.2 (3 players) || Strawberry Fields - BACKUP-SERVER (3 players) || .Tronners|.in|.Pyjamas|.High-rubber|TiP-Clan.De.ms (2 players)
22:01 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/zero/Rubber/Multi-death-0.0.02.aamap.xml: Resource by zero
22:17 <[dlh]> #rpn 2 dup *
22:17 <armabot> [dlh]: 4
22:18 <[dlh]> #rpn 1 2 nip
22:18 <armabot> [dlh]: Error: "nip" is not a defined function.
22:28 <wrtlprnft> nip?
22:29 <[dlh]> 1 2 nip -> 2
22:30 <wrtlprnft> ie delete the second-to-top stack element?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> or multiply?
22:31 <wrtlprnft> or swap the top 2, then divide?
22:31 <[dlh]> deletes the second to-top stack element.
22:31 <wrtlprnft> so my first guess :)
22:32 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/zero/Rubber/Multi-death-0.0.03.aamap.xml: Resource by zero
22:32 <wrtlprnft> #rpn 1 2 swp /
22:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: "swp" is not a defined function.
22:32 <wrtlprnft> #rpn 1 2 swap /
22:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2
22:32 <wrtlprnft> #rpn 5 2 * !
22:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
22:33 <wrtlprnft> can't do n!?
22:35 <[dlh]> #rpn 2 2dup
22:35 <armabot> [dlh]: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
22:43 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
22:55 <ghableska> #weather 50265
22:55 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 50.0°F (2:54 PM CST on December 05, 2006). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 32%. Dew Point: 21.2°F. Windchill: 44.6°F. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa. 
22:55 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6474 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/network/nServerInfo.cpp: Fixed master to master communication.
23:02 <wrtlprnft> nice!
23:02 <ghableska> o.0
23:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: is that related to all the problems people were experiencing?
23:02 <z-man> yep
23:02 <z-man> I hope
23:03 <z-man> the masters were not accepting messages from other masters
23:03 <z-man> I posted in the lates master server problem thread
23:03 <wrtlprnft> sorry i didn't reply to your question earlier in that thread
23:03 <wrtlprnft> read it, figured i didn't have time for it right then, forgot about it…
23:04 <z-man> never mind, I had to set up a private master to test things myself anyway.
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> what's the word for when everybody feels pressure to act exactly the same?
23:04  * Lucifer_arma just woke up and hasn't finished loading his dictionary
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> starts with a c
23:05 <z-man> do you want us all to scream "peer pressure"?
23:05 <z-man> oh
23:05 <ghableska> copying? :)
23:05 <z-man> conformity?
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> conformity, that's it, thanks :)
23:05 <wrtlprnft> grr, threw away my master build dir
23:06 <wrtlprnft> ah, no, there it is
23:07 <wrtlprnft> but it's a trunk version, i'd better use the stable branch
23:07 <wrtlprnft> URL: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad
23:07 <wrtlprnft> Revision: 6105
23:07 <wrtlprnft> that was my master, if anyone cares
23:09 <z-man> Oh yeah, those ruby warnings are annoying
23:09 <z-man> How can you put PACKAGE_VERSION in a header?
23:10 <[dlh]> Sorry about the ruby warnings, if I knew how to get rid of them I would.
23:11 <z-man> Their headers look broken to me. I'd just edit the silly #defines out on my local system.
23:11 <z-man> We could #undef them in our own code, but probably not in the SWIG wrappers.
23:12 <z-man> We could disable that particular warning for the swig generated files, if that's possible.
23:15 <wrtlprnft> config.status: WARNING:  src/Makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting
23:15 <wrtlprnft> i'm getting that with a lot of files when configuring the master…
23:15 <wrtlprnft> any meaning to it?
23:16 <z-man> My theory is that it's a autoconf/automake problem.
23:16 <z-man> err, a problem with those two only, and unrelated to what we do.
23:17 <z-man> autoconf probably produces makefiles that ignore --dataroot, whatever that is.
23:17 <z-man> s/autoconf/automake
23:17 <z-man> Hmm, there is gcc -w :->
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> the question was "Have you ever worked in a small company?"
23:17 <wrtlprnft> well, i'll ignore that the makefile ignores --datarootdir
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> To which I needed to answer "Yes, I only work in small companies because big companies require too much conformity" :)
23:18  * Lucifer_arma is off to school now, later
23:19 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-208-158.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
23:20 <z-man> http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/html_node/Changed-Directory-Variables.html
23:20 <z-man> They claim auomake handles this.
23:21 <z-man> Well, it doesn't. At least not the version I currently use.
23:22 <wrtlprnft> i hope it'll work, i wanna go to bed.
23:22 <z-man> It worked for me.
23:22 <Your_mom_arma> #time
23:22 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: 11:25 PM, December 05, 2006
23:22 <luke-jr_work> anyone else tested the overlay yet?
23:22 <wrtlprnft> btw, this bug also explains why master4 was the most reliable :D
23:22 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft: it does?
23:23 <wrtlprnft> it probably was the only one that wasn't updated to the new revision
23:23 <Your_mom_arma> who was master 4?
23:23 <wrtlprnft> ig
23:23 <wrtlprnft> *iF
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> mine hasn't been updated in quite awhile
23:23 <wrtlprnft> and he is still running it
23:23 <luke-jr_work> I thought arma servers registered w/ all masters anyway?
23:24 <z-man> new ones, yes.
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> not 0.2.7.1-
23:24 <z-man> old ones only talk to my server.
23:24 <wrtlprnft> and that doesn't work either :(
23:24 <luke-jr_work> are there that many old ones?
23:24 <z-man> Enough to care for.
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> I can't believe they asked for a Linux programmer and then sent a MS Word document with questions to answer
23:25 <luke-jr_work> lol
23:25 <wrtlprnft> there's 6 old servers on my master
23:25 <luke-jr_work> Lucifer_arma: that implies they expect conformity...
23:25 <wrtlprnft> sorry, 3, 0.3.0 isn't old
23:26 <luke-jr_work> anyone else tested the overlay yet? <---
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_work: no, it implies they're a headhunter
23:26 <wrtlprnft> not me, i always use current SVN and install w/ --prefix
23:26 <luke-jr_work> hm
23:26 <luke-jr_work> btw, any ideas on a svn ebuild?
23:27 <luke-jr_work> stupid Portage lacks support for it
23:27 <Your_mom_arma> if we just dropped support for older servers i'ld guess less then half would actually upgrade
23:27  * Lucifer_arma isn't in gentoo anymore
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now I"m really leaving, bbl
23:27 <wrtlprnft> z-man: do the other master servers send updates to master1?
23:28 <z-man> yes, but it was ignoring them due to the bug :?
23:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know that
23:28 <wrtlprnft> just asking because new servers only appear on masters 3 and 4 for a while
23:29 <wrtlprnft> it takes a few hours to make it to 1 and 2, in my experience
23:30 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["O_o"]
23:30 <z-man> yeah, that may be the other problem, master1 pings the server quite right away while it's still talking to the other masters, and thinks it is unreachable.
23:30 <Your_mom_arma> #seen philippeqc
23:30 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: philippeqc was last seen in #armagetron 8 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 58 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <philippeqc> hi
23:30 <z-man> bedtime
23:30 <z-man> for
23:30 <z-man> me
23:30 <wrtlprnft> g'night
23:31 <wrtlprnft> #lastseen philippe
23:31 <armabot> wrtlprnft: philippe has last been seen on The Lobster Cage 3 days 7 hours 50 minutes ago.
23:31 <Your_mom_arma> #ping
23:31 <armabot> pong
23:31 <Vanhayes> #pong
23:31 <armabot> ping
23:32 <wrtlprnft> #lastseen philippeqc
23:33 <armabot> wrtlprnft: timed out
23:33 <Vanhayes> #lastseen
23:33 <Your_mom_arma> t1minute delay?
23:33 <armabot> Vanhayes: Christiano has last been seen on ¬| D u r k a  D u r k a  L a n d | ¬/xff9900 1 minutes ago.
23:33 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: 90 secs, i think
23:34 <Your_mom_arma> it was 61 seconds oms, but it could be different for you, the server and me
23:35 <wrtlprnft> ok, my new master is up and running
23:39 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:39 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:41 <luke-jr_work> hmm
23:41 <luke-jr_work> 750 GB for $215
23:44 <Vanhayes> #weather saint john
23:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 16°F / -9°C | Humidity: 79% | Pressure: 30.19in / 1022hPa | Conditions: Mostly Cloudy | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 9mph / 15km/h | Updated: 6:00 PM AST; Tonight - Cloudy periods. 60 percent chance of flurries this evening. Wind northwest 20 km/h becoming light this evening. Low minus 12.; Wednesday - Sunny. Becoming cloudy late in the morning with 40 percent chance of flurries or rain (1 more message)
23:44 <Vanhayes> #more
23:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: showers late in the day. Wind becoming south 20 km/h in the afternoon. High plus 2. Wednesday night..cloudy. 40 percent chance of flurries or rain showers early in the evening. Periods of rain beginning in the evening. Rainfall amount 5 to 10 mm. Wind south 30 km/h becoming southwest 40 gusting to 60 late in the evening. Temperature rising to 6 by morning.; Thursday - Showers. High 8.;
23:49 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:50 <luke-jr_work> anyone want to buy a HD? :)
23:50  * luke-jr_work ponders effectively paying $-0.33/GB
23:53 <GodTodd> sure...i'll take a 750 GB off your hands for $100 ;)
23:54 <luke-jr_work> nah
23:55 <luke-jr_work> I meant a 250 GB for $100+
23:55 <GodTodd> nah...i can get that cheaper
23:55 <luke-jr_work> hm
23:55 <Vanhayes> if you cant pay me anymore than that I suppose ill take it
23:55 <luke-jr_work> how about $70? :p
23:56 <Vanhayes> uh I think you missed the part about you paying me
23:56 <GodTodd> anyway...i have enough 250s....next one i buy will be closer to 1 TB
23:56 <luke-jr_work> $-70 then
23:56 <Vanhayes> lol
23:57 <GodTodd> well...if you're charging $-70 then i'll take it
23:57 <GodTodd> ;)
23:58 <luke-jr_work> ...
23:58 <Vanhayes> btw luke-jr_work its impossible to pay a negitive number
23:58 <GodTodd> not in bookkeeping, it's not
23:58 <luke-jr_work> lol

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