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Log from 2006-07-23:
--- Day changed Sun Jul 23 2006
00:03 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
00:03 <wrtlprnft> #nickometer ~"Xzl.Destructo
00:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> anybody ever use umbrello?
00:12  * wrtlprnft uses an umbrella once in a while
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> when it rains?  heh
00:12 <wrtlprnft> exactly
00:13 <wrtlprnft> but to answer your question: I don't even know what umbrello is
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> kde uml tool
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> is it a requirement to be a weatherman to make really bad puns?
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> is there like some credit hours worth of bad punning you have to take to get your meteorology degree?
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> I installed umbrello in kubuntu but didn't get a chance to play with it before my system went berserk
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm emerging it now
00:25 <wrtlprnft> #night
00:25 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
00:25 <wrtlprnft> one last thing:
00:25 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=76361#76361
00:26 <wrtlprnft> isn't that the same psyko that's leading SP?
00:27 <Lackadaisical> yes
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> wow, umbrello lets you write code
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> too bad it assumes C++ :)
00:29  * Lucifer_arma checks to see if it'll do python
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> ah, it will
00:30 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870C4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> won't let you edit the code, though, heh
00:48  * spidey yawns
00:50 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5808 /private/philippeqc/armagetronad/ (25 files in 6 dirs): Reorganised the class in more appropriate files
00:53 <spidey> Lackadaisical?
00:55 <Vanhayes> o ya Lackadaisical  did AW beat SP?
01:15 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-65-214.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
01:15 <Your_mom_arma> is luci on?
01:16 <spidey> Your_mom_arma, not at the moment luke-jr_ is trying to overrun hell
01:16 <Your_mom_arma> makes sence to me
01:51 <Lackadaisical> hi
01:51 <Lackadaisical> no
01:51 <Lackadaisical> we lost 3-1
01:51 <Your_mom_arma> hey, lost?
01:52 <Lackadaisical> Vanhayes>	o ya Lackadaisical did AW beat SP?
01:52 <Your_mom_arma> oh
01:53 <Vanhayes> that sucks, o well at least AW won one
01:53 <Lackadaisical> grats with being a developer  btw Your_mom_arma :)
01:53 <Your_mom_arma> same to you :-)
01:53 <Lackadaisical> well we won the first two but teams werent really even up till the third one
02:01 <madmax|pt> good night
02:01 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-219-21.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> kicking around a bit, about to put a sign on my truck
02:22 -!- MaZuffeR [i=MaZuffeR@dsl-hkigw6-fe52de00-104.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:32 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]"]
02:43 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: what map?
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> man, my wife's cold-blooded
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> she doesn't think comparing my daughter to cinderella before the ball was a good idea
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> because in those movies they always show cinderella doing a little bit of work, then going around and singing and dancing and otherwise fucking off
02:59 <luke-jr_> lol
03:01 <Your_mom_arma> luci would it be okay if i protect the server page? its been subject to being defaced several times
03:05 <luke-jr_> too many potential legit changes, IMO
03:06 <Your_mom_arma> thats why i'm asking lucifer instead of just doing it
03:07 <Your_mom_arma> some guy keeps coming back to deface that paticular page though, only thing i could think to prevent it in my power
03:08 <luke-jr_> too bad you can't require approval on changes
03:13 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: hey
03:14 <Your_mom_arma> hey
03:14 <luke-jr_> you run windoze?
03:14 <Your_mom_arma> yeah
03:14 <luke-jr_> http://gammaclan.net what do you see for the ad area
03:15 <Your_mom_arma> a google ad
03:15 <luke-jr_> ...
03:15 <luke-jr_> Pack or AdWords? is there a search box?
03:16 <Your_mom_arma> adwords and search box
03:16 <luke-jr_> ok, try with IE =p
03:16 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:16 <Your_mom_arma> google pack
03:17 <luke-jr_> search box?
03:17 <Your_mom_arma> nope
03:17 <luke-jr_> does it look ok?
03:17 <Your_mom_arma> also it has its own scrollbars
03:17 <luke-jr_> blah
03:17 <luke-jr_> why?
03:18 -!- Lizz [i=Lizz@DC-201-216.bpb.bigpond.com] has joined #armagetron
03:18 <Lizz> hiya guys
03:18 <Your_mom_arma> i dont know
03:18 <luke-jr_> well, what can you scroll to?
03:18 <luke-jr_> hi Lizz 
03:18 <Lizz> hiya luke
03:18 <Your_mom_arma> up down left and right of the ad like it isnt shown at its full size
03:19 <Your_mom_arma> hi
03:19 <Lizz> hiya yma
03:20 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: but what if you scroll?
03:21 <Your_mom_arma> just see more of the ad
03:21 <luke-jr_> eh, so it doesn't fit?
03:21 <mkzelda> ad looks fine in konqueror and firefox here
03:21 <Your_mom_arma> pretty much
03:21 <luke-jr_> mkzelda: I know that ;)
03:21 <mkzelda> just adding further reassurance
03:21 <Your_mom_arma> want a screenshot of it luke?
03:22 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: reload and see again?
03:22 <luke-jr_> mkzelda: thx
03:22 <Your_mom_arma> Parse error: parse error, unexpected '}' in  /var/www/localhost/ads.php on line 18
03:22 <luke-jr_> again
03:22 <luke-jr_> lol
03:22 <Your_mom_arma> perfect
03:23 <luke-jr_> ok
03:23 <luke-jr_> so we confirmed once again what we already knew
03:23 <luke-jr_> IE sucks
03:23 <Your_mom_arma> i hear that
03:23 <luke-jr_> which is why IE gets a Firefox ad
03:23 <luke-jr_> lol
03:23 <luke-jr_> at least, I *think* Google Pack includes Firefox...
03:51 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@70.88.244.226] has quit ["be right back."]
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04:03 <Your_mom_arma> luke do you have a server you could try changing map files?
04:17 <Your_mom_arma> pig tryed changing to the repeat map and it crashed, making a local server and changing to repeat crashed, playing locally with it succeded
04:20 -!- anjori [n=anonymou@S0106001150573139.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: let's keep fighting the spam :)
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, we need (guru3 and I) to get the forums mirrored to my machine, at which point I'll put the phpBB login module for mediawiki on there
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> then we get a single login to both things, and a lot of confused spam bots :)
04:35  * Lucifer_arma seems to remember having problems with the repeat map back on the Crack Pipe
04:43 <luke-jr_>  02:43:10 up 1 day, 14:18,  3 users,  load average: 2.57, 2.38, 1.32
04:43 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer's Guide to Annoying Your Wife/Girlfriend
04:43 <Lucifer_arma> 1.  Tell her the best handjob you've ever had, you gave to yourself.
04:43 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: my experimetnal server is still up
04:43 <Lucifer_arma> 2.  Tell her that only a person with a penis can give the best blowjob.
04:46 <Lizz> wife tell husband : then go find a person with a penis to give u one
04:46 <Lizz> :D
04:46  * luke-jr_ watches Lizz own Lucifer_arma 
04:47 <Lucifer_arma> she wouldn't dare, because she knows I'd do exactly that :)
04:47 <Lizz> and id let u
04:47 <Lizz> :)
04:51  * Lizz believes in following thru
04:54 <Lucifer_arma> so does my wife, that's why she won't tell me
04:54 <Lucifer_arma> to do something like that
04:55 <Lizz> i think id take a cam and film u then use it for divorce settlement 
04:55 <Lizz> no
04:56 <Lizz> id sell it on the AA forums :P
04:57 <Lucifer_arma> 3.  Tell her her blowjobs are better than your last girlfriend's.  (I don't know why this annoys her, it just does)
04:57 <Lizz> it does? o.O
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> I think the part about having had a blowjob from someone else and/or the possibility she might not have done better is what annoys her
04:58 <Lizz> o.O
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> *annoyed (past tense, after 10 years, she doesn't care so much)
04:58 <Lizz> if u say so >.>
04:58 <Lizz> all sounds a bit odd to me 
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> man, Americans are weird, no denying that.
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> too many guys I've known have taken some insecurity out of the fact that their girlfriends have slept with someone before them
04:59 <Lucifer_arma> what, a woman's supposed to be chaste while a man screws around?  Just who is that man going to screw, then?
05:00 <Lucifer_arma> how *do* you get a 7 year old girl to shut the fuck up?
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> just saying "shut the fuck up" doesn't work
05:01 <anjori> punch her in the face?
05:01 <Lizz> its a bit like us saying to men to annoy them is "is it in yet?"
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't work when she gasps every time it goes in for the first time
05:01 <Lizz> thats only coz we fake that to make u all feel good
05:02 <Lizz> same as orgasm
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> you can't fake an orgasm to a man who knows what a real one feels like
05:02 <Lizz> LOL
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> this is what I get for telling her she has to finish the laundry before she goes to bed
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> worse, she had to do the dishes too
05:05 -!- Vanhayes_ [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182098.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> I should sit here and play arma while she's folding clothes
05:06 <Lizz> why not?? her job
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, we don't do that sexist thing around here
05:06 <Lizz> then dont play and help her fold
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> this is my daughter, who's become slave labor for the time being
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> Moral of the story: if all you have to do is clean your room, don't bitch about it!
05:07 <anjori> inroducing her to her role in life early, eh? :P
05:07 <Lizz> lol
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> so my wife and I have decided to start up a chore rotation finally---after I finish working my daughter to the bone.
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> It's her object lesson in Real Work.
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> maybe when I'm done she'll appreciate how little she actually has to do and how much has to get done around here
05:09 <Lizz> maybe....
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> probably not
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> she was real proud of the dishes she did last night, though.  Hopefully she'll be proud of the ones she does tonight
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> she's a good girl, when she gets over this princess attitude of hers she should have a good work ethic.
05:11 <Lizz> as long as u are a consistent parent and always follow thru with the consequences.. things usually work out... kids.. like adults need validation
05:11 <Lizz> and praise..
05:12 <Lizz> they will always seek out attention.. if they cat get positive.. they will get negative.. in their eyes any is better than none
05:12  * Lizz shutsup now
05:14 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
05:16 <Lucifer_arma> well, she gets plenty of attention :)
05:16 <Lizz> :)
05:17 <Lizz> how old is she loocee?
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> 7
05:17 <Lizz> sweet age :)
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> lots of hugs, playing, and stuff
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> I love playing with my kids.  :)
05:18 <Lizz> still a baby
05:18 <Lizz> cute
05:19 <Lizz> sounds like u got it all worked out loocee :)
05:20 <Lizz> is she ur eldest?
05:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, she's the old one
05:20 <Lizz> ok :)
05:20 <Lucifer_arma> the others are boys, 6 and 2
05:21 <Lizz> k
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> the 2 year old's birthday is next month, though
05:21 <Lizz> trying ages at times tho.. but lottsa fun :)
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> "I'm doing the bacteria part first!"
05:21 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
05:22 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182098.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:22 <Lucifer_arma> the bacteria part is where the food goes.  I told her if she doesn't clean it thoroughly, bacteria will grow in there and give us all food poisoning
05:23 <Lizz> ok... just as long as u dont give her umm.. a guilt issue.. like.. dont weigh her down with issues that will make her feel that she cant win.. umm meaning.. give her tasks u kno she can do well.. that way u dont set her up for failure..
05:24 <Lizz> umm just my opinion.. and plz dont take offence to anything i say.. its not meant in that way at all
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> normally she says "I can't <do this thing>" and I say "yes you can, do it!"
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> then she does it
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> then she comes back and says "Daddy, I really can <do this thing>!"
05:25 <Lizz> shes looking for ur reassurance.. and seeing if u have confidence in her.. she is seeking ur approval.. its important to her
05:25 <Lizz> :)
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> I won't say I'm the greatest father ever or anything, but I try to make sure there's always a way she can do it and be measured with success
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sure.  SOme of the time she's doing that.  :)
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> Some of the time she's just trying to laze her way out of something.
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> And some of the time she genuinely doesn't think she can do it.
05:28 <Lizz> she is just testing the boundries u and ur wife has set
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> sure, sometimes.  Sometimes she's taking advantage of one of us, sometimes she's <kids are more complex than that>
05:29 <Lizz> as long as she has parents that love and support her as u and ur wife obviously seem to, im sure she will do just fine :)
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> well, we don't have many rules, but when they both came home from school talking about "bad words", I said "The only bad words in this house are 'I can't'"
05:30 <Lizz> kids always go for the "soft" parent first... just as we do as adults.. its a learning curve of the boundries
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> that would be their mother, and they do indeed always go for her first.  :)
05:30 <Lizz> ;)
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I'm definitely the hard ass.  :)
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> My wife went in to help her get her tooth out a few nights ago, and for 30 minutes my daughter screamed at her and finally started pushing her away
05:31 <Lizz> as long as the family unit works as a team.. and all are aware that ev1 needs to contribute to the team to make it function well.. it can work good
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> so I went in and spent all of 5 minutes fighting with my daughter, got her to hold still long enough for me to get a good grip on her tooth, the fucker came right out
05:32 <Lizz> heh
05:32 <Lizz> daddy to the resue
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> after she got over the way I did it, she thanked me and gave me a kiss.  :)
05:32 <Lizz> :) sweet
05:33 <Lizz> as long as u always keep the communication open with ur kids.. about everything... it makes life and the next stage alot easier for u all :)
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> well, we'll see.  They won't tell on themselves right now, and I'm too much of a hard-ass to go easy on them when they do
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> but I think that's reasonable behavior on their part at this age
05:34 <Lizz> i agree.. 
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> you know, we don't hit them or anything.  I rate spanking and giving them candy as abusive :)
05:35 <Lizz> i rate it as pointless disipline too
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> but they do come to me with problems they want fixed.  If they want sympathy, they go to my wife, if they want it fixed, they come to me
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> punishment doesn't work!  Sounds crazy, but that's how it is.  It just builds resentment.
05:35 <Lizz> men are always the solution finders.. women the comfortors
05:35 <Lizz> ers*
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, when my daughter's fish died, she wanted Daddy.
05:36 <Lizz> consequences are better than punishment imo
05:36 <Lizz> every action has a reaction
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> our approach is that if you want to be around people, you have to behave well around them, with good manners, and play nicely.
05:37 <Lizz> agrees
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> and if you want to live like an animal, you can always go outside and do so.
05:37 <Lizz> yup
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> every now and then they need to be reminded of it, but for the most part they're pretty well-behaved.
05:38 <Lizz> :)
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> Not so well-behaved that they don't play and have fun, I mean, if you're not playing, having fun, and getting in trouble, you're not being a kid.
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> some of us grown-ups still go through that sequence :)
05:39 <Lizz> like us.. kids have bad days too.. thats normal.. some parent expect their kids to be behaved all the time.. thats unrealistic and will set them up for failure again.. parent need to respect their children just as we expect them to respect us
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> say it, girl.  :)
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> one of my pet peeves is watching any adult behave disrespectfully to a kid
05:40 <Lizz> mmm 
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> actually, my in-laws tend to give me strange looks when I talk to my kids because I talk to them like any adult, and they understand :)
05:40 <Lizz> u cant get respect off ur kids if u dont give it to them.. i cant see why some adults dont get that >.<
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, me neither.  Heh.
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> I say "excuse me" when they're in my way and they move, *and* they say "excuse me" when I'm in their way
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> amazing how that works
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> well, my daughter's doing a bang-up job on the laundry right now, I hope she keeps it up
05:42 <Lizz> ive always spoken to my son as an adult.. mainly coz he has grown up with only adults.. it does have its problems later on.. ive had to deal wit them.. it can be a double edged sword at times.. esp when they are a bit older
05:43 <Lizz> but.. as he gets even older... it will be more of a benifit
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm careful with technical details, mostly because they don't always have the attention span to lsiten to them
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> but otherwise, I'll stop and define words they don't understand if I need to, and don't hold anything back
05:44 <Lizz> when ive been asked a question.. ive always give the honest answer.. tho at times.. i havent elaborated on it.. as he was too young to fully understand.. u gotta always be honest with ur kids... then chances are.. they will always be honest with u
05:44 <Lucifer_arma> but we're not prudes.  :)  When the last kid was born, we all went to the hospital together.  The two older ones fell asleep,
05:45 <Lizz> lol
05:45 <Lucifer_arma> but when the baby started coming out, I woke them up so they could see him.  They were very happy about it and talked about it for days.  :)
05:45 <Lizz> :)
05:45 <luke-jr_> they didn't freak out? =p
05:45 <Lizz> kids take things in their stride better than adults.. they habour no predjudices
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> that's true.  NO, they loved it!
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> and the baby had pooped on his way out, and my daughter noticed it and pointed it out to the nurses
05:46 <Lizz> heh
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> she still talks about that
05:47 <Lizz> a story she can tell at ur youngest sons 21st lol
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> so they got to see him come out, and the umbilical chord get unwrapped from his neck and cut, and all that
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> :)
05:47 <Lizz> cant hide life or death from ur kids.. its all part of learning and accepting
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> no, you can't.  we had a funeral for the fish
05:48 <Lizz> :) a necessary thing
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> we had 3 fish die this summer and we had funerals for each one
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter was the palm bearers for her two fish, and my son for his, of course
05:49 <luke-jr_> why?
05:49 <luke-jr_> fish just go away when they die
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> my wife killed the 2 that died together
05:49 <Lizz> its all part of the baby steps to lifes bigger ordeals.. the better u can equip them as children.. the stabler they will be as adults
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> she cleaned their tanks, and did two bad things
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> 1.  She put unconditioned water to top them off
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> 2.  She didn't warm the water up to the same temperature as the tanks' water
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, looking at luke-jr_ I think it's pretty obvious the kids needed the funerals for the fish :)
05:53 <luke-jr_> nah, it's like Disney brainwashing kids into thinking animals are intelligent
05:54 <luke-jr_> dead fish are merely fertilizer
05:55 <Lizz> not to the kids that loved them tho
05:57 <luke-jr_> ok
05:57 <luke-jr_> fertilizer and memories
05:57 <luke-jr_> =p
05:58 <Vanhayes_> well so ar epoeple
06:00 -!- Vanhayes_ is now known as Vanhayes
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter read to her fish every night before she went to bed
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> I'm supposed to tell her this friend of hers is just fertilizer?
06:01 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: nonsense
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> well, actually, I did.  :)
06:01 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: lol
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> I told her all about the cycle of life and explained how it's the same for people
06:01 <luke-jr_> pfft
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> I did *not* fill her head with nonsense about god and redemption and heaven
06:01 <luke-jr_> the truth isn't nonsense
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> that's true, but god is
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter summarized it best:
06:02 <Vanhayes> luke-jr_: not really, when someone dies their body is decomposed and all we have left of them is memories
06:02 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: not quite
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> "Daddy's just saying that because he knows I believe in God.  I also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!"
06:02 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: their soul still is somewhere, and will be reunited with their resurrected body one day
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> er
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> no, the law of conservation of mass
06:03 <Vanhayes> well alll magic aside they it is the same then
06:03 <luke-jr_> conservation of Macs? =p
06:03 <Vanhayes> then*
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> whichever the one is that says that there isn't enough mass on this planet to resurrect all the dead bodies of the people that have lived on it :)
06:05  * Lucifer_arma observes silence you can cut with a knife
06:05 <anjori> if you believe in magic and fairy tales, laws don't matter
06:06 <Vanhayes> lol true
06:06 <luke-jr_> if 'laws' conflict with facts, they are obviously buggy 'laws'
06:07 <anjori> facts?
06:07 <anjori> you understand why they call it "faith", right?
06:07 <Vanhayes> heh luke-jr_ likes his "facts"
06:07  * GodTodd notes the irony in luke-jr_'s statement.
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_: does your shit stink?
06:08 <luke-jr_> anjori: 'faith' != 'blind faith'
06:09 <luke-jr_> and even in the latter case, lack of proof does not falsify
06:09 <GodTodd> lack of proof does not validate either
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> lack of evidence, you mean
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> scientifically, nothing can be proven
06:09 <Vanhayes> lack of proof=theory not fact
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> hypothesis!
06:09 <Vanhayes> fine 
06:10 <Vanhayes> lack of proof=hypothesis not fact
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> theory = fact, as far as regular every day people are concerned
06:10 <GodTodd> theory = hypothesis that is repeatable iirc
06:10  * Lucifer_arma thinks the world would be a better place if people used the scientific definition of theory all the time
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, a hypothesis is your explanation for an observation
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> Then you have to provide repeatable steps whose outcome is predicted by your hypothesis
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> then it's a theory :)
06:11 <GodTodd> right
06:11 <Vanhayes> anyone with out proof its hard to call it a fact
06:12 <Vanhayes> anyway*
06:12 <Vanhayes> damn im having alot of typos today
06:12 <GodTodd> the sun rises in the west....i can't prove that...can't even provide evidence....yet it is not able to be falsified :)
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you were luke-jr_ you'd just redefine "west" as "the direction the sun rises from"
06:12 <GodTodd> yep
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to win an argument if you're allowed to redefine the language the other guy uses at will
06:16 <GodTodd> don't forget poo-pooing or hiding evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint ;)
06:18 -!- nemostultae_ [n=nemostul@70.88.244.226] has joined #armagetron
06:25 <Your_mom_arma> luke is your server down, not showing up on master server list
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06:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://streams.davefancella.com:8000/
06:39 <Lucifer_arma> you should hear drums and guitar
06:39 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: which one
06:39 <Your_mom_arma> the experimental one
06:41 <luke-jr_> should be up I think
06:42 <luke-jr_> eh, nope
06:42 <luke-jr_> wtf, it was rebooted recently?
06:42 <Your_mom_arma> so it isn't up?
06:42  * luke-jr_ peers at his daughter
06:42 <luke-jr_> apparently not
06:42 <Your_mom_arma> haha
06:42 <luke-jr_> lemme see if I can remember how to start it
06:43 <luke-jr_> ok, its up
06:53 <Your_mom_arma> ok that crashed it :/
06:55 <Your_mom_arma> map_file your_mom/clever/repeat-0.3.2.aamap.xml
06:56 <Your_mom_arma> completly valid command crashes servers but not local game
07:07 <luke-jr_> it's not valid
07:07 <luke-jr_> there is no such resource
07:08 <luke-jr_> you want map_file Your_mom/clever/repeat-0.3.2.aamap.xml
07:10 <Your_mom_arma> please tell me your jokin :-{
07:11 <Your_mom_arma> your server crashed when i joined
07:11 <luke-jr_> map_file Your_mom/clever/repeat-0.3.2.aamap.xml
07:12 <luke-jr_> server restared
07:12 <Your_mom_arma> is it case sensitive?
07:12 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=76461#76461
07:15 <luke-jr_> yes, it is case sensitive like filenames usually are
07:15 <nemostultae_> except on Windows and Mac OS X...
07:15 <Your_mom_arma> its worked sometimes iirc
07:17 <luke-jr_> nemostultae_: depends on the filesystem for OS X =p
07:17 <luke-jr_> Your_mom_arma: if it's worked ever, that's a bug
07:17 <Lucifer_arma> I just explained to my daughter the difference between O(n) and O(1) I think
07:17 <nemostultae_> Very few people reformat to HFS+ case sensitive.
07:17 <luke-jr_> however, I don't see the bug in the code
07:18 <luke-jr_> so go figure
07:18 <luke-jr_> the comparison seems to be MAP_FILE != expected
07:18 <luke-jr_> and != seems to be case sensitive
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> of course it is :)
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> strncmp() is what you want, iirc
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it's istrcmp()
07:19 <Lucifer_arma> istrncmp() ?
07:19 <Lucifer_arma> tString has the method in it somewhere, though
07:19 <luke-jr_> ...
07:19 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: it's supposed to be case sensitive
07:20 <luke-jr_> it doesn't appear to be on Windoze, which is why certain people have it work when it shouldn't
07:20 <nemostultae_> tString just wraps strcasecmp and strcmp.
07:20 <luke-jr_> nemostultae_: for !=, it seems to be strcmp
07:20 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't make sense to do a case-sensitive comparison on a filesystem that's not case sensitive, though
07:20 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: the resource filepath is assumed to be sensitive
07:20 <Lucifer_arma> I realize your server is case sensitive
07:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't make that assumption.  You have to *know*
07:21 <luke-jr_> while at the same time, insensitive ;)
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> or we need a better way to recover from that error :)
07:21 <luke-jr_> eg, only one file case exist with the same filepath insensitively matched
07:21 <luke-jr_> but the case must be matched to choose it
07:21 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: we just need to tell idiot users it's sensitive, and figure out why local games work when it's not properly capitalized
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, it should prefer the one that matches exactly, and if a local copy doesn't match exactly on a case-insensitive filesystem, then it should do it with an appropriate warning
07:21 <Your_mom_arma> i know for a fact that on local games loadin mapfile your_blahblah works when Your_blahblah is the actual folder
07:21 <luke-jr_> they shouldn't, but they do
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> it works for Your_mom_arma locally because he's on Windows, right?
07:22 <nemostultae_> yea
07:22 <luke-jr_> no idea why, tho
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> because windows has a case-insensitive filesystem?
07:22 <luke-jr_> it should notice the XML tags and MAP_FILE don't match
07:22 <luke-jr_> it's not comparing the local filesystem's capitalization
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> how can it tell that, though?
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> you can have category/subcategory, right?
07:23 <luke-jr_> yes, so?
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> then there was another one.....hmmmm........(heh)
07:23 <luke-jr_> if MAP_FILE starts with 'y' and Author starts with 'Y', that's a mismatch
07:23 <luke-jr_> and it should bail out complaining the wrong file is at MAP_FILE
07:23 <luke-jr_> even on Windows local
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> no, it should load it with an appropriate warning
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> because if it doesn't load it, the server is unusable
07:24 <luke-jr_> we decided a long time ago to avoid warnings where doing it the right way is necessary
07:24 <luke-jr_> it doesn't work on servers anyway
07:24 <luke-jr_> the problem is local games
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> what's the right way?
07:24 <luke-jr_> proper capitalization
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> that's not true on a case-insensitive filesystem
07:25 <luke-jr_> the resource filesystem isn't case-insensitive
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> it's true if the filesystem is case sensitive, or if we're trying to retrieve it from a case-sensitive repository
07:25 <luke-jr_> the cache filesystem is irrelevant
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> if neither of those are the case, then Your_mom == your_mom is true
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> we're not talking about the cache filesystem, we're talking about the filesystem where the game is installed
07:25 <luke-jr_> the resource filesystem is sensitive, and that's all that matters
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> no it's not.  It doesn't make sense that the resource filesystem is sensitive on an OS that isn't
07:26 <luke-jr_> the local resource directory is a cache
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> you're just forcing unix filesystem conventions onto people who don't give a rat's ass about them
07:26 <luke-jr_> the resource filesystem is abstract and determined by specs, which have always included sensitivity
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> then the spec is wrong.  We need to consider the filesystem that the user is using
07:27 <luke-jr_> why?
07:27 <luke-jr_> why should a cache's structure be given any thought?
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> because the user is going to expect it to work the way he is accustomed to things working on his OS
07:27 <luke-jr_> we could name everything after their MD5s
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> this isn't the cache we're talking about
07:27 <luke-jr_> the user needs to realize it's not a local file
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> this is a map that ships with the game
07:28 <luke-jr_> static caches are still caches
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> you're just not seeing it
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07:29 <Lucifer_arma> for someone who reasonably expects his computer to load a file in a case-insensitive manner, for us to not do so is a BUG
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> that's why we have to think about it
07:30 <luke-jr_> it's not loading a file
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> now, we can't just blindly load it either, because an external repository can be case-sensitive
07:30 <luke-jr_> it's loading a resource
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> oh fuck off with this pedantic shit
07:30 <luke-jr_> just like a user can't expect any random http address to be insenstiive
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> think about the person actually playing the game for a second, will you?
07:31 <luke-jr_> I am
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> no you're not
07:31 <luke-jr_> being inconsistent doesn't help anyone
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> you're more concerned with your petty "spec" than you are with people actually using it
07:31 <luke-jr_> it just gets the many bug reports of "it works local but not on the server"
07:31 <luke-jr_> people assume if it works one place, it works another
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> not if there's a warning that says "This isn't right, but I'm doing it anyway"
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> then they *know* why it works locally but not on the server
07:32 <luke-jr_> even then
07:32 <luke-jr_> that's why we don't *warn* about DTD invalidation
07:32 <luke-jr_> we reject an invalid resource
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07:32 <Lucifer_arma> right, and crash the server, that's always a good solution
07:32 <luke-jr_> that's another bug
07:32 <luke-jr_> and note the server crashes either way right now
07:33 <luke-jr_> the server should be changed to *not* crash when it has problems with the map
07:33 <luke-jr_> if it's missing or what not, it should fall back
07:35 <luke-jr_> summary: the server is unrelated to the problem and has no changes planned by either of us. the problem is that people use an incorrectly capitalized map_file *locally* and it works, thus they assume it is correct
07:36 <luke-jr_> a warning will go ignored, as usual
07:36 <luke-jr_> an error will get the user to take a second to fix the problem while ensuring they are aware of what they did wrong
07:36 <Lucifer_arma> it's an error without an explanation, last time I saw it happen
07:36 <luke-jr_> it's not an error, that's the problem
07:36 <luke-jr_> right now, it's just ignored and there's no warning nor error
07:37 <luke-jr_> so people assume it's correct
07:37 <Lucifer_arma> we still need to consider case insensitivity.  Besides user expectations, I can give an even better reason.
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> Someone makes a map Your_mom/repeat/whatever-0.2.0.aamap.xml
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> SOmeone else makes a completely different map:  YOUR_mom/repeat/whatever-0.2.0.aamap.xml
07:38 <luke-jr_> that's why I suggested a mix of sensitive and insensitive
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> eh?  no you didn't.  You required case-insensitive
07:39 <Lucifer_arma> something about a "spec"
07:39 <nemostultae_> where is this spec?
07:39 <luke-jr_> Case insensitive on name conflict comparisons
07:39 <luke-jr_> but specifying requires correct case
07:39 -!- nemostultae_ is now known as nemostultae
07:39 <luke-jr_> permitting case insensitivity throughout is not practical, even if it were to be preferred
07:40 <luke-jr_> you would need to figure out how to change the configuration of all webservers involved
07:40 <luke-jr_> and then do searching on case sensitive filesystems
07:40 <Lucifer_arma> that's true and all, with one minor thing not considered
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> chances are much higher that the user intended to load the resource found that matches in every way except case
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> so it's ok if we then go ahead and load the resource and warn the user.  If it's not what he intended, he'll know he needs to fix it.
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> Further, if unexpected behavior comes later, he can go back through his logs (server admin we're tlaking) and find the warning
07:41 <luke-jr_> people ignore warnings. that's why DTD validation fail isn't one.
07:41 <luke-jr_> talk to ph
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> if unexpected doesn't come later, that's different
07:42 <luke-jr_> how many bug reports are from people who read logs or warnings?
07:42 <Lucifer_arma> people do ignore warnings, that is true, but failure to validate against the DTD isn't a "warning" condition anyway, it's an error
07:42 <luke-jr_> same with case :)
07:42 <Lucifer_arma> a better question is how many bug reports could we deal with in 5 seconds if someone posted a log that contained a warning?
07:43 <Lucifer_arma> that current take much longer to deal with
07:43 <luke-jr_> if they don't read logs, they won't post them
07:43 <Lucifer_arma> if they don't post them, we can't help them
07:43 <luke-jr_> how many people need to be told about TALK_TO_MASTER?
07:43 <luke-jr_> same stuff
07:43 <Lucifer_arma> heh, only the same people who need to know about port forwarding :)
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> but that's a different situation.  That's failing to read the documentation.
07:44 <luke-jr_> "if you use a router, your server will be laggy; you need to buy service from me" :p
07:44 <luke-jr_> failing to read docs go along w/ failing to read warnings
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, your track record for thinking about users isn't very good....
07:45 <luke-jr_> same kind of user
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> not really.  a lot of it depends on the warning.
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> In this case, since the chances are VERY GOOD that the user intended to load that resource, the warning being ignored is perfectly fine
07:45 <luke-jr_> ...
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> it only matters when weird shit happens after the resource is loaded, at which point the user will either report a bug (which he was going to do anyway),
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> or he'll go back and read the warning
07:46 <luke-jr_> nobody goes back to read warnings when it works
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> it only matters when it doesn't work
07:46 <luke-jr_> when it works on their local game, they will assume it must work everywhere
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> maybe, maybe not
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> depends
07:47 <luke-jr_> inconsistency is a bug to most people
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> well, then we need to rethink our case-sensitivity, because the lowest common denominator is case-insensitive
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> if we don't meet that, we're inconsistent no matter what
07:48 <luke-jr_> the lowest common denominator is sensitive from a technical standpoint ;p
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> uhhh, no?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's what we have to make everything match :)
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> you see, the example I gave will see the person having to download the map fresh every time
07:49 <luke-jr_> it's less work for people to learn to capitalize than it is to patch every Apache out there to handle insensitivity
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> which completely defeats the point of the cache, may as well not have one then
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> we dont' have to patch every apache out there
07:49 <luke-jr_> the only other option would be to mandate a certain case
07:49 <luke-jr_> like mandate everything being lowercase
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> uhhh, no?
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> we can't make a blanket solution, resolving the difference requires human intervention
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> so, we need to figure out what the user is trying to do and do our best to do it and tell him when we have to make significant contortions
07:52 <Lucifer_arma> and the fact is, when you get right down to it, we're only talking about a few people who are going to have resources with exactly the same names where case is the only difference as actually different resources
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, I don't think that's a realistic scenario to begin with
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> so then we need to think about someone abusing user's case-insensitive filesystems, and otherwise try to behave like any other application on that platform is expected to behave
07:54 <spidey> luke-jr_, ping
07:54 <luke-jr_> spidey: pong
07:54 <spidey> luke-jr_, set the password to what my webservers pass is :p
07:55 <luke-jr_> ...
07:55 <luke-jr_> set *what* password to *what*?
07:55 <spidey> aa-admin
07:55 <spidey> to what the fallin-angels ssh pass is
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> why does hydrogen crash when I try to open the fortress walk file?
07:56 <luke-jr_> I don't know what it is
08:00 <luke-jr_> spidey: your server's had some use lately =p
08:01 <spidey> ?
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08:01 <luke-jr_> spidey: there were a few guys just playing on it
08:02 <luke-jr_> spidey: btw, u know u can change your own pass =p
08:02 <spidey> i don't remember the first one
08:04 <luke-jr_> o
08:05 <luke-jr_> PM
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08:28 <spidey> luke-jr_, 
08:28 <spidey> identify
08:34 <Lucifer_arma> oh no, Fortress Walk is getting lyrics, hahahahahahaha
08:35 <spidey> ?
08:37 <luke-jr_> ...
08:37 <spidey> you get that?
08:37 <luke-jr_> ya
08:37 <spidey> did you respond?
08:38 <luke-jr_> ya
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08:40 <Your_mom_arma> hey
08:40 <groundpig> hi
08:40 <groundpig> finally did get your map loaded
08:41 <Your_mom_arma> yeah
08:41 <Your_mom_arma> you missed luke and luci duking it out over case sensitivity
08:41 <spidey> piggy ;D
08:41 <groundpig> aw sorry i missed that - hi spidey
08:42 <luke-jr_> groundpig: spidey is running your code for his server =p
08:42 <groundpig> nice
08:42 <spidey> i can't get single shots :<
08:42 <spidey> megashots i can O.o
08:42 <groundpig> what is your SHOT_THRESH set to?
08:42 <luke-jr_> translation: please post your config =p
08:43 <groundpig> SHOT_THRESH 0.0001
08:43 <spidey> haha
08:43 <groundpig> ok will do
08:43 <spidey> k,sec
08:44 <groundpig> so running with the patch i just posted?  compile OK?
08:44 <spidey> luke compiled it
08:44 <spidey> that worked,thnx ;D
08:44 <spidey> brb pizza = burning
08:46 <luke-jr_> yeah
08:46 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: the puckmap one
08:46 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: what'd you change? =D
08:46 <groundpig> that makes me happy, thanks for trying it
08:46 <groundpig> :B)
08:46 <wrtlprnft> if I had a use for zombies on my race server I'd update it to use the new patch
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> damn, why does cos(pi) have to be -1?
08:47 <wrtlprnft> but it would be a lot of work since it's a trunk server
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> IT SCREWS UP THE METAPHOR!
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> How can I say "It's the pi for my cosine" if cos(pi) = -1?
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos(pi)
08:48 <armabot> cos(pi) = -1
08:48  * Lucifer_arma looks for another stupid metaphor
08:49 <spidey> #g pi
08:49 <armabot> pi = 3.14159265
08:49 <spidey> #g cos
08:49 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, what rhymes with space?
08:49 <spidey> waste?
08:49 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: removed the two holes on the sides
08:49 <spidey> trace!
08:49 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: bah! =p
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> trace sounds good
08:50 <wrtlprnft> face
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> Core dumped without a trace!
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:50 <spidey> lol
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> now I just need a line to put in front of that
08:50 <spidey> maybe
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> the first two lines are:
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> It's the fortress of doom
08:51 <spidey> \1  pwned \2 without a trace O.o
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> It's my own little space
08:51 <spidey> er
08:51 <groundpig> wrtlprnft: would self destruct be useful on a race server?
08:51 <spidey> who's gonna sing it? lol
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> me :)
08:51 <spidey> haha
08:52 <spidey> i want a recording!
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's the Fortress Walk, it'll ship with the game
08:52 <spidey> lahl
08:52 <luke-jr_> lol
08:52 <wrtlprnft> groundpig: there's death shots wich basically have the same effect
08:52 <groundpig> luke-jr_: config posted on forums
08:53 <luke-jr_> spidey: 
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha, got it
08:53 <spidey> Lucifer_arma
08:53 <spidey> luke-jr_, 
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> It's the fortress of doom
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> It's my own little space
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> So come on in where it's warm
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> Core dumped without a trace
08:53 <luke-jr_> groundpig: I just compile and host-- spidey configures/admin/etc
08:54  * Lucifer_arma isn't going to be able to sing it tonight, he'll be lucky if he gets drums and bass laid down
08:54 <groundpig> luke-jr_: ok
08:55 <groundpig> spidey: what server?  i'd like to try er out
08:55 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: line 3 idea: If you tread in our place,
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> rhyming pattern is ABCB
08:55 <luke-jr_> oh well
08:55 <spidey> U.S.Sty , if you come up with something i can put infront of the server name,let me know
08:55 <spidey> ;D
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> sorry
08:56 <luke-jr_> line 3 seems out of place
08:56 <luke-jr_> what's warm? why do you get dumped? =p
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> might need to put it after the line that says "It's a ring of fire"
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> I'm pacing in my circle
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> I've got you in my sights
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> You wanna take <need something here>
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> You won't get it without a fight
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08:59 <cusco> how about the inter tronic
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> #dict homeland
09:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: wn, gaz-place, and gazetteer responded: wn: homeland n : the country where you were born [syn: {fatherland}, {motherland}, {mother country}, {country of origin}, {native land}]; gazetteer: Homeland, CA (CDP, FIPS 34316) Location: 33.74847 N, 117.10858 W Population (1990): 3312 (1613 housing units) Area: 7.4 sq km (land), 0.0 sq km (water) Zip code(s): 92548 Homeland, GA (3 more messages)
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> #more
09:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (city, FIPS 39692) Location: 30.85500 N, 82.02429 W Population (1990): 981 (380 housing units) Area: 5.0 sq km (land), 0.0 sq km (water); gaz-place: Homeland, GA -- U.S. city in Georgia Population (2000): 765 Housing Units (2000): 318 Land area (2000): 2.576899 sq. miles (6.674137 sq. km) Water area (2000): 0.000000 sq. miles (0.000000 sq. km) Total area (2000): 2.576899 sq. miles (2 more messages)
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> #more
09:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (6.674137 sq. km) FIPS code: 39692 Located within: Georgia (GA), FIPS 13 Location: 30.859445 N, 82.022074 W ZIP Codes (1990): Note: some ZIP codes may be omitted esp. for suburbs. Headwords: Homeland, GA Homeland; gaz-place: Homeland, CA -- U.S. Census Designated Place in California Population (2000): 3710 Housing Units (2000): 1812 Land area (2000): 3.295011 sq. miles (8.534038 sq. (1 more message)
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> ack
09:01  * Lucifer_arma wanted synonyms
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> I need a 2 syllable word that means something like "inner peace"
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> #dict inner peace
09:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: No definition for "inner peace" could be found.
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'll just put "temple"
09:09 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@70.88.244.226] has quit []
09:10 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5809 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gWall.cpp: Predicted walls are no longer marked as dangerous; the cycle position gets extrapolated on a danger query.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> alright, 4:47
09:17 <spidey> luke-jr_, lol?
09:17 <Vanhayes_> so that wasnt just me then?
09:18 -!- Vanhayes_ is now known as Vanhayes
09:18 <groundpig> hmm
09:18 <Your_mom_arma> what?
09:18 -!- cusco [n=cusco@cpc2-swin6-0-0-cust997.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"]
09:19  * Lucifer_arma cries audibly
09:19 <Your_mom_arma> whats wrong?
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> I just trashed my left hand and fucked up the song
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> would've been fine if I had finished the song without screwing up too badly, then I could've rested while I laid down guitar tracks :)
09:28 <Vanhayes> what would a flooded connection do to download/upload speeds? anything or would it affect it at all?
09:29 <luke-jr_> they'd fight over bandwidth
09:29 <luke-jr_> trust me, the T1 US Pig is on isn't flooded =p
09:29 <Vanhayes> er let me rephrase that, how could I tell if my connection is flooded?
09:29 <luke-jr_> it's like 99.5% unused
09:30 <luke-jr_> compare usage to cap
09:30 <Vanhayes> and how would I do that?
09:32 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-65-214.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
09:32 <luke-jr_> cap - usage = leftover
09:43 <spidey> luke-jr_, you sure about that?
09:43 <spidey> it was lagging  pretty good
09:43 <spidey> speed burts, tails jumping around, sliding
09:43 <spidey> etc
09:46 <Vanhayes> luke-jr_: where would I find out what my cap and usage are?
09:47 <spidey> mm
09:47 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: cap, your ISP
09:47 <luke-jr_> usage, your system
09:47 <luke-jr_> spidey: shouldn't be-- at its peak it used 200 kbit/sec out of 1 mbit/sec
09:47 <luke-jr_> the other server was idle
09:48 <spidey> ask piggy
09:48 <luke-jr_> maybe the undeleted zones are sticking around
09:48 <spidey> ?
09:49 <luke-jr_> remember how they sit outside the HUD map?
09:49 <luke-jr_> they're not being deleted completely
09:49 <Vanhayes> #google svchost.exe
09:49 <armabot> Vanhayes: Search took 0.20 seconds: svchost - svchost.exe - Process Information: <http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/svchost/>; A description of Svchost.exe in Windows XP Pro: <http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=314056>; Description of Svchost.exe in Windows 2000: <http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250320>; svchost.exe Windows process - What is it?: (2 more messages)
09:49 <spidey> lol
09:49 <spidey> hayes
09:49 <spidey> that's a group of programs windows crammed in 1 service
09:50 <luke-jr_> so like xinetd?
09:50 <spidey> luke-jr_, what's that got to do with lag/
09:50 <spidey> ?
09:50 <Vanhayes> ya there is a bunch of them running, just wanted to know what they are
09:50 <spidey> what's xinetd?
09:50 <luke-jr_> spidey: the server could be eating up memory and slowing itself down
09:50 <luke-jr_> spidey: xinetd is a server that just listens on ports and starts other servers when something wants them
09:51 <spidey> Vanhayes, you shouldn't have more than 4-5
09:51 <Vanhayes> 4-5 sounds right
09:51 <luke-jr_> so you could tell it to run 'ls' for anything on port 4444
09:51 <luke-jr_> and if you telnet to port 4444 you get ls
09:51 <luke-jr_> =p
09:51 <spidey> m
09:52 <Vanhayes> er actually I have 7 going it seems
09:52 <Vanhayes> er 8*
09:52 <spidey> do you have things like
09:52 <spidey> wireless
09:52 <spidey> scanner
09:52 <spidey> printer
09:52 <spidey> mm
09:52 <Vanhayes> all of the above
09:52 <Vanhayes> well scanner/printer
09:52 <spidey> hm
09:53 <spidey> printer runs on spools.exe
09:53 <Vanhayes> and the wireless isnt for this computer but it is hooled up to it
09:53 <spidey> so it don't count
09:53 <Vanhayes> spoolsv.exe
09:53 <spidey> ya
09:54 <Vanhayes> er I got a little side tracked
09:55 <Vanhayes> so where would I find this information luke-jr_ ? 
09:55 <spidey> ?
09:55 <spidey> well
09:55 <spidey> you'd need something that monitors traffic
09:55 <Vanhayes> cap =the max ISP gives me, usage is what im actually using?
09:55 <spidey> to find out usuage
09:56 <spidey> yes
09:56 <spidey> cap = connection speed
09:56 <spidey> simpler
09:56 <spidey> :p
09:56 <Vanhayes> hmm pretty sure it is 100 mbps
09:57 <spidey> hahaha
09:57 <spidey> no it's not
09:57 <spidey> 100mbps is probably your nic speed
09:58 <luke-jr_> look at your total data transfer #s
09:58 <luke-jr_> wait 1 minute
09:58 <luke-jr_> then look again
09:58 <luke-jr_> the difference is the traffic in 1 min
09:59 <luke-jr_> divide that by 60 to get per second
09:59 <luke-jr_> now, that number is USAGE
09:59 -!- Vanhayes_ [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182098.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
09:59 <spidey> lol
09:59 <luke-jr_> ...
09:59 <Vanhayes_> woops
09:59  * luke-jr_ stabs
09:59 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182098.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:59 -!- Vanhayes_ is now known as Vanhayes
09:59 <luke-jr_> ...........
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> look at your total data transfer #s
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> wait 1 minute
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> then look again
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> the difference is the traffic in 1 min
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> divide that by 60 to get per second
10:00 <luke-jr_> <luke-jr_> now, that number is USAGE
10:00 <luke-jr_> now, do you have DSL or Cable?
10:00 <spidey> thanks piggy
10:00 <groundpig> spidey: sure, np
10:01 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: you have < 1 min
10:01 <luke-jr_> if you don't answer, I'm leaving
10:01 <luke-jr_> and going to bed
10:01 <luke-jr_> and sleeping
10:01 <luke-jr_> until I wake  up
10:01 <luke-jr_> at probably 2 PM
10:01 <spidey> lo
10:01 <Vanhayes> er just a second
10:01 <luke-jr_> it's a simple question
10:01 <luke-jr_> DSL or cable?!
10:02 <Vanhayes> um pretty sure dsl
10:02 <luke-jr_> ok
10:02 <luke-jr_> then get on the phone
10:02 <luke-jr_> call ISP
10:02 <spidey> does it use a phoneline?
10:02 <luke-jr_> and ask your caps
10:02 <spidey> or does it use coax
10:02 <luke-jr_> and that # is your LIMIT
10:02 <luke-jr_> now, subtract USAGE from LIMIT
10:02 <luke-jr_> and that's AVAILABLE
10:02 <luke-jr_> if that's near 0, you're flooded
10:02 <luke-jr_> and drown
10:03 <luke-jr_> and die a painful death
10:03 <Vanhayes> heh ok thx
10:03 <luke-jr_> and realize there is a heaven
10:03 <luke-jr_> but you missed it and stuff
10:03 <luke-jr_> while in the meantime
10:03 <luke-jr_> Luke is at home asleep
10:03 <luke-jr_> zzzzzzzz
10:03 <luke-jr_> sleep is bad, btw
10:03 <luke-jr_> goodnight
10:03 <Vanhayes> night
10:18 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870512.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
10:35 <Lucifer_arma> well, isnt this about the shittiest thing I've ever heard
10:40 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/mix.wav  <---- worst first recording I've ever made
10:40 <Lucifer_arma> er
10:40 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/mix.ogg  <---- worst first recording I've ever made
10:47 <anjori> anjori@1[Desktop]$ wget http://www.davefancella.com/mix.ogg
10:47 <anjori> --01:48:58--  http://www.davefancella.com/mix.ogg
10:47 <anjori>            => `mix.ogg'
10:47 <anjori> Resolving www.davefancella.com... 63.246.177.233
10:47 <anjori> Connecting to www.davefancella.com|63.246.177.233|:80... connected.
10:47 <anjori> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
10:47 <anjori> 01:49:00 ERROR 404: Not Found.
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, try again
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I did copy the wav instead of the ogg, haha
10:49  * Lucifer_arma usually checks his links before putting them here
11:03 <Lucifer_arma> jesus christ
11:03 <Lucifer_arma> z-man not here?
11:03 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:15 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182098.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["So thats what that button does..."]
11:18  * spidey yawns
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> I just played pixel and this other guy, 1 v 2, and got to 42-0 before pixel left
11:23 <spidey> hah
11:23  * spidey is still setting up his sty server
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> not bad for being so out of practice
11:24 <spidey> piggy you there?
11:24  * Lucifer_arma thinks anjori's still throwing up after listening to that track
11:24 <spidey> lol
11:30 <spidey> yay
11:30 <spidey> it's done ;D
11:30  * spidey goes to test it ;s
11:30 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, come to U.S.Sty
11:34 <anjori> Lucifer_arma: nah, just watching a movie. i liked it, though. think it's fitting.
11:51 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870512.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:53 -!- Compn1 [i=lksdfn@cpe-65-29-121-215.twmi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:53 -!- Compn1 [i=lksdfn@cpe-65-29-121-215.twmi.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
12:11 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
12:11 <philippeqc> hi
12:13 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5810 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gCycle.cpp: Removed some strange clamping raycasts for the smooth position correction.
12:16 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, anjori wrtlprnft  guys gonna play in the itw tomorrow?
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airabout.html
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably not, got work to do and I'm late to bed again
12:24 <spidey> i want that
12:24 <spidey> !
12:24 <philippeqc> lucifer, I hope I get to be half the father you are
12:24 <spidey> lol
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: you hve to build it :)
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: you hope to have 1.5 kids?
12:25 <spidey> hahah
12:25  * Lucifer_arma takes the compliment, but notes nobody here has independent verification of anything he's said about his family
12:25 <philippeqc> ok, not THAT half. 
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: that's a cool looking airplane, though
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> seats 4, 5 if the people in back are really friendly
12:26 <spidey> ya
12:26 <philippeqc> lucifer, I hope I get to be half the father you are pretending the be
12:26 <spidey> i wanna fly ;x
12:26  * Lucifer_arma is googling pilot's license now
12:26 <spidey> fly it*
12:26 <spidey> license hell
12:26 <spidey> i live in the country
12:26 <spidey> ;D
12:26 <spidey> who's gonna see me land a plane in the back yard?
12:26 <spidey> lol
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> The FAA says you must be at least 16 years old to fly solo with a student pilot certificate, and 17 years old to get a pilot's license
12:27 <spidey> i'm 16,17 next year
12:27 <spidey> ;x
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, the thing I liked the most about that particular kit was the range :)
12:28 <spidey> actually 17 next year O.o
12:28 <spidey> grrr
12:28 <spidey> 17 this year!
12:28 <Lucifer_arma> If you train part-time at a local airport, for example, plan on investing in the range of $3,000 to $5,000, with costs varying widely by region.
12:28 <spidey> train? i'd teach myself :D
12:29 <spidey> but
12:29 <spidey> i want that plane ;x
12:29 <philippeqc> 45K for the base model
12:30 <spidey> Aerodynamically advanced design with true 200+ mph cruise speeds.
12:31 <philippeqc> twice the price of my idea of an ok car seems resonable for a plane.
12:31 <philippeqc> does ebay sell second hand airplanes?
12:31 <spidey> lol
12:31 <spidey> not sure i would by a airplane off ebay
12:32 <spidey> you'll get flying then all of a sudden the left wing falls off
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> wasn't it 31k for the base model, 45 for the large one?
12:32 <philippeqc> i dont know where to check market value for second hand airplane, so ebay seems as logical as any other place
12:32 <spidey> no
12:32 <spidey> 45k base and 125k xl
12:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airprice.html
12:33 <philippeqc> "philippeqc 45K for the base model"
12:33 <philippeqc> yes, that is exactly what I said
12:34 <philippeqc> o sorry, you where answering to luci
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.glassgoose.com/  <--- this one's pretty neat, too, but only a 2-seater
12:35 <spidey> hahah
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> the velocity plane isn't a whole lot more than the glass goose and it's a 4-seater
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> man, it never even occurred to me there might be kit planes
12:36 <spidey> mm
12:36 <spidey> where's the engine? O.o
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> but hwy not?  There's kit cars and kit boats
12:36 <philippeqc> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cessna-172-with-180HP-Penn-Yann-Conversion_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63677QQihZ003QQitemZ130007889390QQrdZ1
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> top back
12:36 <philippeqc> 45k for a cesna
12:36 <spidey> ah
12:36 <philippeqc> 4 seat
12:36 <spidey> i don't like that one ;D
12:37 <philippeqc> dont need to assemble it, but its a 1969 model
12:37 <philippeqc> its called paint!
12:37 <spidey> no
12:37 <spidey> i mean the overall look :p
12:37 <spidey> it's called run philippeqc over with it!
12:38 <philippeqc> airplanes tend to be very light... and bad at backing ;)
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, if you flew that velocity plane, you'd be hearing people reporting UFOs everytime you flew
12:38 <spidey> hahahah
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> that is one cool looking plane
12:39 <philippeqc> wanna buy an airport in arizona, only 4,25M
12:39 <spidey> i'll pass
12:39 <spidey> that involves taxes ;x
12:40 <spidey> seeing as i live in the sticks,if i actually got a plane noone would know ;D
12:40 <philippeqc> looser! where will you  park that airplane? How will you learn to fly if you dont own your very own airport?
12:40 <spidey> ok
12:40 <spidey> you buy the airport i'll buy the plane
12:41 <philippeqc> how comes there are no migs in eBay?
12:41 <spidey> so you don't buy one and try to own everyone?
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> 933 miles isn't terribly bad range
12:41 <philippeqc> this is not true capitalism! I'll complain to Bush
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I could get to phoenix from here and refuel
12:41 <philippeqc> plane != armament
12:41  * Lucifer_arma wonders what his straight-line distance to phoenix is
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> and it's fast, 230mph
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 933/230
12:42 <armabot> 933 / 230 = 4.05652174
12:43 <spidey> 4 hours?
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> so 4 hours between gas stops, I could be in New York in a day
12:43 <spidey> lol
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> drop a bomb over spidey's house on the way...
12:43 <philippeqc> the only way to be leet is inside a gyrocopter!
12:43 <philippeqc> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Air-Command-Gyrocopter-Elite_W0QQitemZ130008450654QQihZ003QQcategoryZ63679QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
12:43 <spidey> um
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> that only seats one!
12:43 <spidey> i wouldn't fly that
12:43 <spidey> if my life depended on it
12:44 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: ropes and harness! 
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> no man, I'm serious!  I'm gonna hit my wife up tomorrow with this thing.
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> She keeps talking about wanting to buy a new car, and I keep telling her that's throwing money away
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> aha, but an airplane.....now that's a different story
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> let's see, then I need a place to park it
12:45 <philippeqc> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Velocity-XL-RG-Incl-Engine-Prop-and-Avionics_W0QQitemZ320008556214QQihZ011QQcategoryZ63679QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
12:46 <philippeqc> someone is selling a velocity nearly completed
12:46 <philippeqc> and its the luxury model
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> $4/ft^2 at the local airport
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, maybe there's a cheaper place nearby
12:47 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTro@adsl-64-109-166-83.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #Armagetron
12:47 <philippeqc> is it ft^2 of the airplane figure, or the bounding box it need?
12:47 <DrJoeTron> hey there
12:47 <philippeqc> hi
12:47 <DrJoeTron> finally decided to get irc
12:47 <philippeqc> good for you
12:47 <philippeqc> ;)
12:48 <DrJoeTron> thanks >-;;,ccc3
12:48 <philippeqc> welcome to yet-another-way-of-not-doing-something-good-with-your-time
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> HANGARS: Draughon-Miller has 86 T-hangars - 20 just recently completed and ready for occupancy. 
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> The monthly rates:
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> Single $125.00
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> Sm Twin $150.00
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> Lg Twin $190.00
12:48 <DrJoeTron> hells yeah
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: the bounding box it needs
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> those rates are in Temple, which is about an hour from here
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's about the same distance as Austin-Bergstrom
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> then there's insurance on the plane
12:49 <DrJoeTron> vicodin just kicked in XD
12:49 <philippeqc> you'd need a plane to go there to save some time ;)
12:49 <philippeqc> what is vicodin?
12:49 <DrJoeTron> a powerful pain killer
12:50 <DrJoeTron> hospitals give it to patients, and celebrities get addicted to it
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, there ain't no such thing as a quick insurance price, apparently
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> hi DrJoeTron 
12:51 <DrJoeTron> hey lucifer
12:51 <DrJoeTron> wanna join my clam?
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> lick my ball, joe
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> hey joe, wanna buy an airplane?
12:51 <DrJoeTron> hehe
12:51 <DrJoeTron> what kind
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=6401&highlight=
12:51 <DrJoeTron> i actually bought one and is being shipped soon
12:52 <Lucifer_arma> well, I need to go, I let that airplane distract me for too long
12:52 <philippeqc> DrJoeTron: so which one are you, patient or celebrities?
12:52 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5811 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gCycleMovement.cpp: Fixed NAN acceleration, put in some assertions that catch similar errors in the future.
12:53 <DrJoeTron> http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/ is what i just bought, best 30 dollars i ever spent
12:53 <DrJoeTron> im a patient, I had my tonsils pulled and then had them rupture so i had to go and get surgery again.
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's all worth it when they give you the vicodin afterwards
12:54 <DrJoeTron> its liquid vicodin too
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> wow
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> so you can do shots of it?
12:54 <DrJoeTron> since i cant swallow
12:54 <DrJoeTron> i do 20 mls of it
12:54 <DrJoeTron> every 4 hours
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's it?
12:54 <DrJoeTron> yeah
12:55  * Lucifer_arma always does half-again what the prescribed dosage is--except on antibiotics
12:55 <DrJoeTron> if i do more, im completely gone
12:55 <Lucifer_arma> isn't that the point?
12:55 <spidey> joe
12:55 <DrJoeTron> not me, i like to function :P
12:55 <DrJoeTron> im super sensitive to anything i take
12:55 <spidey> wouldn't something like that blow away if a burst of wid came?
12:55 <philippeqc> ok, hope you get well soon
12:55 <DrJoeTron> i do too
12:56 <DrJoeTron> ive lost 15 lbs so far
12:56 <DrJoeTron> spidey, yes it will, 
12:56 <DrJoeTron> its happened before
12:56 <spidey> lmao
12:56 <DrJoeTron> thats my second one
12:56 <DrJoeTron> its so cool, so its worth it
12:56 <DrJoeTron> im also looking at this helicopter
12:56 <DrJoeTron> http://www.hobbytron.com/ElectricRCMiniDragonflyHelicopter.html
12:56 <spidey> i might put the gfx card on hold ;D
12:56 <DrJoeTron> heh oh yeah?
13:01 <philippeqc> for 30$, do you get just the airplane or the controler too?
13:01 <DrJoeTron> controller too
13:02 <DrJoeTron> it flies for like 10-15 minutes
13:02 <DrJoeTron> charges ina  half hour
13:02 <DrJoeTron> you can get like 20 charges on 6 AA battereies
13:02 <DrJoeTron> it charges through the controller
13:02 <philippeqc> ok
13:02 <DrJoeTron> its extremely easy to fly
13:02 <DrJoeTron> and its made to smash into walls
13:03 <philippeqc> lol
13:03 <DrJoeTron> since the propellers are in back
13:03 <philippeqc> if you stuck your finger in the propeller, would it just hurt or would you break some skin?
13:03 <DrJoeTron> it will just hurt :p
13:03 <DrJoeTron> it cuts grass on a full charge XD
13:03 <philippeqc> watching the clip of the helicopter
13:06 <DrJoeTron> the music is extra cheesey
13:07 <philippeqc> http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/gallery/display_photo.asp?photo=/aam/gallery/photos/lexmodel18sm.JPG
13:07 <philippeqc> this is neat
13:07 <DrJoeTron> haha that is
13:07 <spidey> hahaah
13:07 <spidey> does that actually float?
13:07 <DrJoeTron> what
13:07 <spidey> that thing
13:08 <DrJoeTron> theres 2 things
13:08 <philippeqc> on lakes of asphalt, yes
13:08 <DrJoeTron> hehe
13:08 <spidey> what's the distance?
13:08 <philippeqc> 300 ft range, you wouldnt want to have your boat too far to start with
13:08 <DrJoeTron> haha
13:08 <DrJoeTron> yeah and if you go past 300ft you're in trouble
13:08 <DrJoeTron> i've done it
13:08 <spidey> O.o
13:08 <DrJoeTron> it goes to full throttle
13:09 <DrJoeTron> and does not stop
13:09 <spidey> hahahahhaa
13:09 <philippeqc> unless you build a small port and want to reenact Pearl Harbor
13:09 <DrJoeTron> haha yes
13:09 <spidey> mm
13:09 <philippeqc> lol, how fast does it move?
13:09 <spidey> what if 
13:09 <DrJoeTron> they make 3 different frequencies
13:09 <DrJoeTron> it depends
13:09 <spidey> you bought another set of motors and added them
13:09 <philippeqc> full charge, no wind
13:09 <DrJoeTron> they are pretty fast little guys
13:09 <spidey> would it go x2 fast?
13:09 <DrJoeTron> they zip
13:09 <DrJoeTron> lets just say that
13:10 <philippeqc> can you run faster?
13:10 <philippeqc> bike faster?
13:10 <DrJoeTron> bike faster
13:10 <spidey> O.o
13:10 <philippeqc> ok
13:10 <DrJoeTron> they are very fun to play
13:10 <philippeqc> well, biking ~10 till the battery dies
13:10 <DrJoeTron> excellent in warehouses
13:10 <DrJoeTron> well good luck flying it in straight lines
13:10 <DrJoeTron> because that wont happen
13:10 <DrJoeTron> its really good for dog fighting
13:11 <DrJoeTron> and since you can have 3 different ones in the air
13:11 <DrJoeTron> its a lot of fun
13:11 <philippeqc> yes it must be
13:11 <philippeqc> dog fighting, do you need to pull a rope
13:11 <DrJoeTron> hehe nah
13:11 <DrJoeTron> oh
13:11 <DrJoeTron> one flimsy part is the tail
13:12 <DrJoeTron> but you can actually replace that with a cut out index card
13:12 <guru3> you and your little planes joe
13:12 <guru3> ><
13:12 <DrJoeTron> some one made a jet that can go 11mph an hour
13:12 <DrJoeTron> WATCH OUT
13:12 <DrJoeTron> hey tank
13:13 <spidey> jet?
13:13 <spidey> i want one of those O.o
13:14 <spidey> lol@ airhogs
13:14 <spidey> i remember those things you had to pump
13:15 <DrJoeTron> haha yeah
13:15 <DrJoeTron> http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/gallery/video/AA_JET1.mpg
13:15 <DrJoeTron> http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/gallery/videos.asp this is one with the light mod installed
13:16 <DrJoeTron> erm
13:16 <DrJoeTron> well its on there
13:16 <DrJoeTron> <--uber dorkatron
13:17 <spidey> xine_play: demux failed to start
13:17 <spidey> xine: found demuxer plugin: ASF demux plugin
13:17 <spidey> xine: found input plugin : file input plugin
13:17 <spidey> :/
13:17 <DrJoeTron> you need quicktime
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5812 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gCycleMovement.cpp gWall.cpp): (log message trimmed)
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 5805 to 5811:
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad:  r5811 | z-man | 2006-07-23 12:52:54 +0200 (Sun, 23 Jul 2006) | 1 line
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad:  Fixed NAN acceleration, put in some assertions that catch similar errors in the future.
13:17 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
13:18 <armabot> armagetronad:  r5810 | z-man | 2006-07-23 12:13:15 +0200 (Sun, 23 Jul 2006) | 1 line
13:19 <DrJoeTron> any of you have Mario Kart DS?
13:19 <spidey> i have tuxkart
13:19 <spidey> that count?
13:19 <DrJoeTron> not enough
13:19 <philippeqc> is there a tuxkart?
13:19 <spidey> yes
13:19 <philippeqc> neat
13:20 <spidey> it comes with kde
13:20 <spidey> tuxkart(3d)
13:20 <philippeqc> neat
13:21 <philippeqc> what was the game where tux slide down a mountain?
13:21 <spidey> Ages 8 to 100
13:21 <spidey> LOL
13:21 <spidey> um
13:21 <DrJoeTron> tux sperlunker?
13:21 <spidey> it's a ice game?
13:21 <philippeqc> yes
13:21 <spidey> like ice makes him faster
13:21 <spidey> he has to eat fish
13:21 <philippeqc> yes
13:21 <spidey> it's planet pengiun racer
13:22 <philippeqc> what is the original game+
13:22 <philippeqc> ok found it ppracer is the name here
13:22 <spidey> i downloaded blob wars
13:22 <spidey> lol
13:23 <DrJoeTron> spidey did you checkout warrock?
13:23 <spidey> ?
13:23 <DrJoeTron> www.warrock.net
13:23 <anjori> the original name was Tux Racer
13:24 <spidey> DrJoeTron, i don't have windows ;x
13:24 <DrJoeTron> when did that happen
13:24 <spidey> well i do,but i be damned if i'm playing a game looking up at that monitor
13:24 <spidey> Linux version 2.6.15-25-386 (root@mepis-party) (gcc version 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)) #1 PREEMPT Mon Jun 19 00:05:53 EDT 2006
13:24 <spidey> it's happened for awhile now
13:24 <spidey> :p
13:24 <DrJoeTron> ha
13:25 <spidey> though,i've only got a 12gig drive here :/
13:25 <DrJoeTron> ouch
13:25 <DrJoeTron> the new lobster cage is gonna be on a 20 gig
13:25 <spidey> i'm putting windows on the 12 gig and partitioning the 111gig for nix
13:25 <spidey> gonna dual boot them 
13:26 <DrJoeTron> that sounds like suicide :D
13:26 <spidey> nah
13:26 <DrJoeTron> well wait
13:26 <DrJoeTron> how many games do you play
13:26 <DrJoeTron> that are windows based
13:26 <spidey> tron swat4 halo
13:26 <spidey> maybe this game too
13:26 <DrJoeTron> heh
13:26 <DrJoeTron> what about virtual memory
13:26 <DrJoeTron> you like that right? :D
13:26 <spidey> ....
13:27 <spidey> pagefile?
13:27 <spidey> i don't use that stuff
13:27 <DrJoeTron> you'll run out fast with those games
13:27 <DrJoeTron> on a 12 gig
13:27 <DrJoeTron> why dont you partition 20 on the 112
13:27 <DrJoeTron> for windows
13:27 <spidey> who said i installed them on the 12 gig?
13:27 <DrJoeTron> well if its windows
13:28 <DrJoeTron> im pretty sure it wont work with linux
13:28 <spidey> what are you talking about!?!?!
13:28 <DrJoeTron> screw it!
13:28 <spidey> look
13:28 <spidey> windows 12 gig
13:28 <DrJoeTron> yeah
13:28 <spidey> linux 30 gig
13:28 <spidey> partitioned off the 111gig
13:28 <spidey> that leave me another fat32 drive
13:28 <spidey> !!!!!
13:28 <DrJoeTron> oh god
13:28 <DrJoeTron> fat32
13:29 <guru3> at least it's not skinny32
13:29 <DrJoeTron> haha
13:29 <spidey> llol
13:29 <DrJoeTron> you guys hear about amd thinking about buying ati?
13:29 <spidey> i just gotta get unlazy first
13:30  * spidey wants a dual core gfx card ;x
13:30 <DrJoeTron> hehe
13:30 <DrJoeTron> oh yeah speaking of
13:30 <spidey> joe
13:30 <spidey> buy me one
13:30 <DrJoeTron> since intel came out with that new awesome cpu
13:30 <DrJoeTron> amd is cutting all of there prices starting this week i beleive
13:30 <DrJoeTron> cant man
13:30 <DrJoeTron> i spent my money on that plane
13:30 <spidey> LOL
13:31 <DrJoeTron> >-;;,ccc3
13:31 <spidey> as am i ;x
13:31 <spidey> now shhh
13:31 <spidey> i'ma play blob wars
13:33 <DrJoeTron> i'ma play mario kart
13:33 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:33 <DrJoeTron> nah, i got instabored
13:33 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
13:37 <spidey> awe!
13:37 <spidey> i got blown into little blob peices
13:37 <spidey> :<
13:39 <DrJoeTron> way to die!
13:39  * spidey goes back to the repository to see what else he can find
13:40 <spidey> i have bzflag
13:40 <spidey> anyone wanna play?
13:40 <spidey> ;x
13:40 <DrJoeTron> god no
13:40 <guru3> tron players united already went thru a bzflag fad
13:40 <guru3> about 2 years ago
13:40 <DrJoeTron> haha
13:40 <spidey> ?
13:40 <DrJoeTron> i made the post
13:40 <DrJoeTron> we all did bzflag
13:41 <spidey> lol
13:41 <spidey> i suck at it :<
13:41  * anjori does, too
13:41 <DrJoeTron> and you can never be good at it
13:41 <spidey> [NP]Tangent, killed me all the time :/
13:41 <DrJoeTron> becayse its bzflag
13:41 <DrJoeTron> tank, how many other games has tron players united for?
13:41 <DrJoeTron> we have bzflag, and gunbound
13:42 <guru3> the one with the ships
13:42 <guru3> i forget the name
13:42 <spidey> battleship?
13:42 <DrJoeTron> i think i missed that boat
13:42 <guru3> started with a w
13:42 <DrJoeTron> ...no pun intended
13:42 <guru3> spaceships
13:42 <guru3> so no pun present
13:42 <DrJoeTron> pj
13:42 <DrJoeTron> oh*
13:42 <DrJoeTron> ok
13:42 <DrJoeTron> ships...
13:42 <guru3> warning forever
13:42 <guru3> that's it
13:42 <DrJoeTron> haha really?
13:43 <DrJoeTron> that was online?
13:43 <guru3> no
13:43 <guru3> but we still all played it
13:43 <DrJoeTron> ah ok
13:43 <DrJoeTron> yeah i remember playing that
13:43 <DrJoeTron> i wish grid wars caught on :/
13:44 <DrJoeTron> and i played counter-strike:source with sabarai once over a voip
13:44 <DrJoeTron> that was awkward
13:44 <spidey> joe
13:44 <DrJoeTron> spidey
13:44 <spidey> got xbox?
13:44 <DrJoeTron> nope
13:44 <spidey> :/
13:44 <spidey> we could have played xbox live!
13:44 <DrJoeTron> get a ds
13:44 <DrJoeTron> we can play metroid prime hunters 
13:44 <DrJoeTron> or tetris
13:44 <spidey> wasn't till recently i realized icould plug it into my router
13:44 <spidey> ;X
13:44 <DrJoeTron> or mario kart
13:45 <DrJoeTron> those are the wifi games i have
13:45 <spidey> i had a gamecube
13:45 <spidey> uncle lost it
13:45 <spidey> bastard
13:45 <DrJoeTron> heh
13:45 <spidey> i had a 19' tv
13:45 <spidey> he lost that to
13:45 <spidey> along with my dvd player
13:45 <DrJoeTron> i have hooked up 
13:45 <spidey> tons of dvd's
13:45 <spidey> :<
13:45 <DrJoeTron> ps2, n64, and dreamcast
13:46 <DrJoeTron> thats whats hooked up
13:46 <spidey> i had a ps2 once too
13:46 <spidey> brother traded it for a ounce of oregano
13:46 <spidey> stupid fuck
13:46 <DrJoeTron> haha
13:46 <spidey> only things i got now are
13:47 <spidey> super nentindos,sega genesis, regular nentindo
13:47 <spidey> i got a atari somewhere
13:47 <DrJoeTron> get a ds :D
13:47 <spidey> buy me one ;x
13:47 <DrJoeTron> things i have all together are many
13:48 <spidey> i've had a total of 3 xbox's
13:48 <spidey> 2 got destroyed
13:48 <spidey> 1 got fried 
13:48 <DrJoeTron> but i dont hook them up because i have a pc
13:48 <DrJoeTron> that emulates them
13:48 <DrJoeTron> so im cool
13:48 <DrJoeTron> but man
13:48 <DrJoeTron> so many things i had
13:48 <DrJoeTron> ha(d)ve)
13:48 <spidey> ya
13:49 <spidey> i've lost thousands of dollars of stuff due to stupid fuckin family people
13:49 <spidey> i hate 'em
13:49 <DrJoeTron> and i cant connect to anyone on mariokart today
13:49 <spidey> but i don't tell them that
13:49 <DrJoeTron> start your own :p
13:49 <spidey> own what?
13:49 <DrJoeTron> family :D
13:49 <spidey> hahahahah
13:52 <DrJoeTron> curse you raisquirel!!
13:53 <DrJoeTron> i got blue shelled before the finish line :/
13:53 <spidey> lol
13:56 <spidey> wow
13:56 <spidey> ubuntus armagetron package is version 2.7.0 O.o
13:57 <DrJoeTron> ko
13:57 <spidey> hey joe, what did you say a good l2 cache size is?
14:01 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@dsl-hkigw6-fe52de00-104.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #armagetron
14:01  * spidey pokes MaZuffeR 
14:02 <spidey> brainfuck is a programming language!?
14:08 <philippeqc> anybody knows if libxml does x-path?
14:08 <philippeqc> I have elements that can refer to other elements, both I want to be able to refer to elements coming AFTER / LATER in the file.
14:10 <spidey> hahaha
14:10 <spidey> i love "blast"
14:11 <spidey> i just blew a hole in philippeqc's name lx
14:11 <spidey> ;x
14:11 <philippeqc> where ?
14:11 <spidey> apt-get install blast
14:11 <spidey> open terminal type "blast" click somewhere on the screen
14:11 <philippeqc> and apt-get somehow blew a hole in my name=
14:11 <spidey> and it puts a hole through it
14:12 <philippeqc> lol
14:12 <philippeqc> ok
14:12 <DrJoeTron> a good cache size?
14:12 <DrJoeTron> heck if i know
14:12 <spidey> i got 512kb ;x
14:12 <DrJoeTron> that should be fine
14:12 <philippeqc> good cache size, what ever you can affort to buy
14:12 <DrJoeTron> see phili knows
14:13 <spidey> lahl
14:13 <philippeqc> ask me for memory and cpu speed now ;)
14:13 <DrJoeTron> im taking the united states citizen test
14:13 <DrJoeTron> well, im reading it to someone
14:13 <DrJoeTron> see if they pass
14:13 <DrJoeTron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_citizenship_test
14:16 <philippeqc> spidey, like many things computer wise, often more is better, but also it is more give you less and less gain for each step.
14:16 <DrJoeTron> spidey
14:16 <DrJoeTron> wait to buy a processor
14:17 <philippeqc> so doubling the cache size might give you 20% improvement, and doubling again might add like 8% and doubling again might add another 1.3%
14:17 <DrJoeTron> amd is dropping there prices this week
14:17 <DrJoeTron> so wait
14:17 <philippeqc> of course, the figures are all fake
14:17 <spidey> ...
14:17 <spidey> i'm not doing anything
14:17 <DrJoeTron> athlon 64 3200+'s are going to be like 80 bucks
14:18 <philippeqc> dont buy numbers, buy a "system". I'm not talking about a Dell or a Compaq, but rather cpu X with motherboard Y. the combinaison often will play a bigger role than the actual performance of individual components.
14:19 <DrJoeTron> i prefer just ordering parts
14:20 <DrJoeTron> i cant wait for the cheap cpu's
14:20 <philippeqc> then you have to know what combines well with what
14:20 <philippeqc> some small shop actually are good at that.
14:20 <DrJoeTron> amd+asus = yumm
14:20 <philippeqc> find who they are, find what they sell, buy those peices assembled from them, or as single items
14:21 <DrJoeTron> dorito tortilla chip + dell motherboard = killer graphics :p
14:21 <philippeqc> lay back on the pain killers Dr
14:22 <DrJoeTron> hey hey
14:23 <DrJoeTron> dont knock it till you try it
14:23 <DrJoeTron> but through my experience
14:23 <DrJoeTron> amd processors go grand with asus motherboards
14:23 <philippeqc> ok
14:24 <philippeqc> but doritos and dell might not be worth buying stocks.
14:24 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
14:24 <DrJoeTron> hey, a chip is a chip XD
14:25 <philippeqc> Hi mr the esquimau, I have this very nice offer on a freezer here just for you.
14:26  * spidey runs off to play conquest
14:27 <spidey>                    Connecting to host: localhost, port 1701
14:27 <spidey>                           connect: Connection refused
14:27 <spidey>                     Cannot connect to host localhost:1701
14:27 <spidey>                   Is there a conquestd server running there?
14:27 <spidey> O.o
14:35 -!- TitsnAss [n=TitsnAss@c-24-5-241-188.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
14:35 <TitsnAss> yo
14:37 -!- TitsnAss [n=TitsnAss@c-24-5-241-188.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
14:38 <DrJoeTron> bye?
14:39 <DrJoeTron> heh
14:57  * DrJoeTron :D
15:00 <DrJoeTron> oh god
15:00 <DrJoeTron> heath ledger might  be joker in the new batman movie
15:00 <spidey> ?
15:00 <spidey> lol
15:01 <spidey> joe's such a kid
15:01 <spidey> ;D
15:01 <DrJoeTron> hey, im older than you : mista
15:01 <DrJoeTron> but why heath ledger!?
15:03 <spidey> age doesn't matter miss
15:33 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870512.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:47  * DrJoeTron needs more vicodin
15:57 -!- anjori [n=anonymou@S0106001150573139.vc.shawcable.net] has quit []
15:59 <spidey> send me some
15:59 <spidey> fucker
16:02 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-207-80.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
16:03  * spidey pokes madmax|pt 
16:03 <madmax|pt> sit in the corner spidey 
16:03 <spidey> no!
16:03 <DrJoeTron> yeah
16:04 <DrJoeTron> thank you vicodin for making my day more cheery :D
16:04 <spidey> send
16:04 <spidey> me
16:04 <spidey> some
16:04 <spidey> fucker
16:06 <DrJoeTron> no
16:06 <DrJoeTron> i needs it
16:06 <DrJoeTron> im currently lookin up apartments with a friend
16:06 <DrJoeTron> so i can start working
16:12 <spidey> joe = the sux
16:12 <spidey> wtf won't this client let me type teh!
16:12 <spidey> ,,
16:12 <spidey> mm
16:12 <spidey> the
16:12 <spidey> teh!
16:12 <spidey> O.o
16:12 <spidey> weird
16:13 <spidey> joe do you play warrock?
16:14 <DrJoeTron> not much
16:14 <DrJoeTron> i have battlefield 2
16:14 <DrJoeTron> so
16:14 <spidey> what's it like? O.o
16:14 <DrJoeTron> battlefield 2
16:14 <DrJoeTron> but much more free
16:15 <DrJoeTron> and faster load times
16:15 <DrJoeTron> you drive vehicles and fly helicopters and shit
16:15 <spidey> mm
16:15 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5813 /private/philippeqc/armagetronad/ (11 files in 4 dirs): support zone influence
16:15 <spidey> what kinda ram/gfx i need?
16:15 <DrJoeTron> check the specs
16:16 <DrJoeTron> just remember its in beta
16:16 <DrJoeTron> so it plays likea  beta
16:16 <DrJoeTron> always join the austin servers i guess
16:17 <DrJoeTron> first time i installed i crashed to the desktop
16:17 <spidey> lol
16:17 <DrJoeTron> but after i restarted it was ok
16:17 <DrJoeTron> its just sluggish to play
16:17 <DrJoeTron> but its got lots of potential
16:17 <DrJoeTron> but yeah
16:17 <DrJoeTron> its pretty much battlefield 2
16:18 <DrJoeTron> but free, faster load times, and little clunky
16:18 <DrJoeTron> www.warrock.net
16:18 <DrJoeTron> http://www.warrock.net/game_guide/system_requirements.php
16:19 <spidey> wow
16:20 <spidey> the only thing i meet there is the cpu
16:20 <spidey> O.o
16:20 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
16:20 <spidey> the hdd to
16:20 <spidey> but that's all
16:20 <spidey> :(
16:20 <DrJoeTron> i rock those settings :P
16:21 <spidey> you suck harry ass to :>
16:21 <philippeqc> is it a paying game?
16:21 <DrJoeTron> totally free
16:21 <DrJoeTron> its going to stay free
16:21 <philippeqc> what info do they need for the registration?
16:21 <DrJoeTron> uh...
16:21 <spidey> email
16:21 <DrJoeTron> yeah
16:21 <DrJoeTron> stuff like that
16:21 <DrJoeTron> its in beta stage right now
16:21 <spidey> email, user/pass 
16:21 <spidey> that's it
16:22 <spidey> secret question/answer to
16:22 <philippeqc> ok
16:22 <DrJoeTron> blood type
16:22 <DrJoeTron> gender
16:22 <spidey> haha
16:22 <DrJoeTron> sexual backround
16:22 <DrJoeTron> nothing big
16:23 <philippeqc> looks nice, wonders how come its free... suspicious about "too good to be true"
16:23 <spidey> ok guys i'ma let you in on a secret
16:23 <DrJoeTron> its because its a beta
16:23 <DrJoeTron> and you can pay for it
16:23 <DrJoeTron> you can buy items
16:23 <philippeqc> so the non beta wont be free
16:23 <philippeqc> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
16:23 <spidey> don't put your pc's under 100lb's of shit stacked ontop
16:23 <DrJoeTron> its like gunbound with its items
16:23 <DrJoeTron> no they said it will satay free
16:23 <philippeqc> its a "but you need to buy equipment" free ;)
16:24 <DrJoeTron> no you get equipment
16:24 <DrJoeTron> its just you CAN buy stuff
16:24 <philippeqc> buy better equipement
16:24 <DrJoeTron> yeah
16:24 <philippeqc> ok
16:24 <Compn1> buy upgrades
16:25 <philippeqc> ok
16:25 <Compn1> so you have a pistol , and enemy has automatic weapons ;p
16:25 <Compn1> good luck
16:25 <spidey> and for this pistol it'll be $4, for this rifle it'll be $8,for this tank it'll be $10 and this here,my this here beautiful air craft is $25
16:26 <DrJoeTron> nope
16:26 <DrJoeTron> you have mp5's and assault rifles
16:26 <DrJoeTron> www.warrock.net
16:26 <Compn1> i dont have any pc capable of modern gaming :)
16:26 <DrJoeTron> hehe
16:26 <Compn1> 1ghz mac and a 900mhz amd is the best i have currently
16:27 <Compn1> havent had any reason to upgrade, no great new games...
16:27 <DrJoeTron> hmmm
16:27  * Compn1 upgraded for doom and upgraded again for quake1
16:27 <DrJoeTron> comp i have a game for you
16:27 <Compn1> wassat?
16:28 <spidey> Minimum Specifications
16:28 <spidey> CPU 	Pentium 3, 800 Mhz
16:28 <spidey> RAM 	512MB or better
16:28 <spidey> Graphics 	Radeon 8500LE or Geforce MX400 or better
16:28 <spidey> OS 	Windows ME, 2000, or XP
16:28 <spidey> Hard Drive 	800 MB
16:28 <spidey> i only meet the harddrive and cpu :<
16:28 <DrJoeTron> hehe
16:28  * philippeqc has more fun coding game than playing game
16:28 <Compn1> oh pent3 800mhz
16:28 <DrJoeTron> compn1 have you ever heard of geometry wars?
16:28 <Compn1> i thought it said 3,800mhz (3.8ghz)
16:28 <Compn1> hehe
16:28 <philippeqc> expect now, I'm breaking my head on a fundamental problem
16:29 <Compn1> dont think i've heard of geometry wars
16:29 <DrJoeTron> ok
16:29 <DrJoeTron> its a vector shooter
16:29 <philippeqc> it is VERY nice
16:29 <DrJoeTron> there is a pc and mac version
16:29 <DrJoeTron> its very fun
16:29 <DrJoeTron> bright colors
16:29 <DrJoeTron> want a link?
16:29 <philippeqc> but a bit dependant on a good cpu. or rather, it gets easier if you have a lesser machine ;)
16:30 <DrJoeTron> hehe
16:30 <DrJoeTron> http://www.incitti.com/Blitz/ click gridwars
16:30 <DrJoeTron> this game has a permanent home on my hard drive
16:31 <philippeqc> if it slows down too much, change the "background grid", that helped on my gf's computer, and so did playing with a lower resolution but keeping the real arena
16:31 <DrJoeTron> sometimes i put it tv-out and playit
16:31 <DrJoeTron> the colors!
16:31 <DrJoeTron> wheee
16:31  * DrJoeTron wheees
16:31 <spidey> !
16:32 <DrJoeTron> but yeah, hope ya like it
16:32 <DrJoeTron> it gets hard really really fast
16:32 <DrJoeTron> ....giggity
16:33 <Compn1> hmm
16:33 <philippeqc> you start to reach the top list when you are able to survive with your ships for ~20 minutes ;)
16:33 <Compn1> i will try it 
16:33 <Compn1> thanks for the reccomendation DrJoeTron
16:34 <DrJoeTron> no problem
16:34 <DrJoeTron> haha
16:34 <DrJoeTron> hey spidey
16:34 <DrJoeTron> you like racing games?
16:34 <DrJoeTron> i got a free one
16:34 <DrJoeTron> i posted this on the boards a while back
16:34 <philippeqc> what?
16:34 <DrJoeTron> TrackMania Nation
16:34 <DrJoeTron> s
16:35 <DrJoeTron> it's like racing on hot wheels tracks
16:35 <DrJoeTron> people build tracks with jumps, loops, cork screws, banks,
16:35 <spidey> linux?
16:35 <DrJoeTron> and you race'em
16:35 <DrJoeTron> windows
16:35 <DrJoeTron> its 100megs
16:35 <spidey> can't play it :)
16:36 <spidey> not yet anyways
16:36 <DrJoeTron> WINDOWS 98/ME/2000/XP - PENTIUM 2 450Mhz - RAM 64MB - 4X CDROM - DX9 COMPATIBLE 3D VIDEO CARD (16MB RAM) - 16 BITS SOUND CARD - 300MB ON HARDDRIVE - 56K MODEM FOR INTERNET GAMING
16:36 <spidey> is it 2d?
16:36 <DrJoeTron> 3d
16:37 <DrJoeTron> www.trackmanianations.com
16:37 <spidey> no more links ;D
16:37 <spidey> i've got more tabs open than i can count
16:37 <DrJoeTron> ;D take it
16:37 <guru3> how do you do pms in tron?
16:37  * guru3 can't remember :(
16:37 <DrJoeTron>  its /msg
16:37 <spidey>  /msg usernmae
16:37 <spidey>  /msg DrJoeTron joo sux@
16:37 <DrJoeTron> dont have to type the full name
16:37 <spidey> 'er
16:37 <guru3> right o
16:38 <guru3> knew it was something like that
16:38 <DrJoeTron> or you would just type /msg Dr joo usx@
16:38 <spidey> bleh
16:39 <spidey> why in the hell did i put all this shit ontop of the computers
16:39 <spidey> at the bottum,i have 2 computers, then a stereo, then 2 speakers, then a webcam to the side of it, the modem and router to, the a 17' lcd ontop of the speakers
16:40 <Compn1> DrJoeTron : neat game, i gotta figure better controls 
16:40 <DrJoeTron> haha yeah
16:40 <DrJoeTron> i use a game pad personaly
16:40 <DrJoeTron> glad ya like it
16:40 <DrJoeTron> watch out for the black holes
16:40 <DrJoeTron> if they link
16:40 <DrJoeTron> you're doomec
16:40 <Compn1> spidey : you using opera?
16:40 <DrJoeTron> d
16:40 <Compn1> opera is better than firefox ;p
16:40 <spidey> firefox
16:40 <spidey> firefox pwns opera
16:40 <spidey> !
16:41 <Compn1> firefox is slow as hell
16:41 <spidey> not
16:41 <DrJoeTron> it was
16:41 <spidey> your connection just sucks ass
16:41 <Compn1> haha
16:41 <philippeqc> wow, I have these kick as zones with complex effect and all
16:41 <Compn1> philippeqc : on your test server?
16:41 <philippeqc> the only prob is that it crash before second round start
16:42 <DrJoeTron> oh god we aren't doing opera vs firefox
16:42 <DrJoeTron> phili whats your server?
16:42 <philippeqc> if you read the second line, you
16:42 <philippeqc> you'd see why there isnt a server up
16:42 <DrJoeTron> whats its name in advance :p
16:42 <DrJoeTron> when it y'know, DOES go up?
16:43 <philippeqc> IIRC: "zone v2 test server"
16:43 <DrJoeTron> ah
16:43 <philippeqc> when that will be fixed.
16:43 <philippeqc> I'd need to bounce some idea off z-man about that bug
16:44 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: ping
16:44 <Compn1> zones go thru wallsin pigsty?
16:44 <philippeqc> yes
16:45 <spidey> hahahah
16:45 <spidey> they got this rc car
16:46 <spidey> hit 65+
16:46 <spidey> i want ;x
16:46 <DrJoeTron> haha yeah
16:46 <DrJoeTron> i saw that
16:48 <spidey> i want that boat
16:48 <spidey> i live close to the tn river so that'd own
16:53 <DrJoeTron> i want that hydrofoam craft
16:53 <DrJoeTron> that goes over land water and air
16:53 <DrJoeTron> that its too cool
16:54 <spidey> O.o
16:54 <DrJoeTron> its on airhogs main site
16:54 <DrJoeTron> its an annoying video
16:54 <DrJoeTron> but very cool to look at
16:55 <spidey> #g 25meters in feet
16:55 <armabot> 25 meters = 82.0209974 feet
16:55 <spidey> wow
16:55 <DrJoeTron> hmm
16:55 <spidey> that humvee rc thing shoots bbs that far
16:55 <spidey> lol
16:56 <DrJoeTron> #g 16664400minutes in years
16:56 <armabot> 16,664,400 minutes = 31.684455 years
16:56 <DrJoeTron> bwahaha
16:56 <spidey> lol
16:56 <DrJoeTron> that guy isnt comming in my server anytime soon
16:58 <DrJoeTron> #g 31.684455years in days
16:58 <armabot> 31.684455 years = 11,572.5 days
16:58 <DrJoeTron> ooh
17:00 <DrJoeTron> so is this how it always is on irc
17:01 <DrJoeTron> i dig it :d
17:03 <spidey> lol
17:07 <DrJoeTron> its like everyone who i would never want to talk to, arent here
17:07 <DrJoeTron> cept for spidey
17:07 <DrJoeTron> you smell
17:08 <spidey> :<
17:08 <DrJoeTron> >-;;,ccc3
17:08 <spidey> damn prawns
17:08 <DrJoeTron> robster craws
17:08 <spidey> prawns!
17:09 <DrJoeTron> alright im gonna get some shut eye
17:09 <DrJoeTron> ta
17:10 <spidey> cya
17:10 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTro@adsl-64-109-166-83.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit []
17:24 <madmax|pt> the shooting map is cool
17:45 <spidey> #g 23fps in mph
17:45 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:45 <spidey> #g 23ft/sec in mph
17:45 <armabot> 23 (feet / second) = 15.6818182 mph
17:45 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-207-80.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
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18:04 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: pong
18:11 <wrtlprnft> ping time between me and philippeqc seems to be about 6,000,000ms
18:11 <spidey> lmao
18:11 <wrtlprnft> try to play arma like that
18:12 <Compn1> philippeqc is ocming back
18:12 <Compn1> he was on pigsty
18:12 <philippeqc> hehe
18:12 <philippeqc> hi wrtlprnft 
18:12 <philippeqc> got a design problem, thought you or z-man could help
18:13 <philippeqc> zones are deleted from the grid, and I store a collection on the side, and when I clean my collection, you can expect that a crash occurs
18:13 <philippeqc> my collection holds shared_ptr<zZone>
18:14 <wrtlprnft> don't delete the zone but just flag it disabled?
18:14 <wrtlprnft> and delete on round end
18:14 <wrtlprnft> and never ever delete the contents of a shared_ptr
18:14 <philippeqc> but then my collection crash when I try to clean it up
18:14 <wrtlprnft> it's guaranteed to crash
18:15 <wrtlprnft> you have to delete the collection, of course
18:15 <philippeqc> I just clean my collection, shared_ptr goes out of scope, and the last one tries to delete the zone, which was collected by the grid
18:15 <wrtlprnft> once the last stored shared_ptr is gone its contents will be deleted automatically
18:15 <wrtlprnft> brb supper
18:16 <philippeqc> tried to delete my collection BEFORE the grid's clean up, then the last shared_ptr goes out of scope, and it delete the zone, then the crash occurs in the grid big clean up
18:16 <philippeqc> ok
18:16 <groundpig> i have to investigate the zone cleanup sometime for the pig sty code
18:17 <philippeqc> they are eNetGameObject, and everything is cleared at round end (should they still be there)
18:18 <groundpig> should i be able to remove them from the game before the round ends?
18:18 <philippeqc> yes I think so
18:18 <groundpig> by default, they just stick around right?
18:18 <philippeqc> eNetGameObject has a method called RemoveFromGame()
18:19 <groundpig> i will give that a try
18:19 <philippeqc> yes, and keep on moving toward the infinite
18:19 <groundpig> maybe thats why spidey's server blew up
18:19 <philippeqc> ????????????????
18:19 <philippeqc> lol
18:19 <groundpig> :B)
18:19 <spidey> it blew up? O.o
18:20 <spidey> hahaha
18:20 <spidey> my webhosts are cool
18:20 <spidey> (12:19:21) xxx_federation_force_xxx: ya can have any stuffs in this server. the guys have already uploaded trogans, hacking tools and stuffs like that
18:20 <philippeqc> too many zones shooted around, one finally hit an Internet host
18:20 <spidey> haha
18:20 <groundpig> the odd lag / timeout thing that happened last night
18:20 <philippeqc> gonna go eat too
18:20 <groundpig> spidey: is the pig sty config working better?
18:21 <groundpig> cya
18:22 <spidey> yes
18:22 <spidey> @piggy
18:23 <groundpig> i'm planning on looking at the code tonight to make it more stable, hopefully that will solve the problem we saw last night
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18:39 <spidey> luke-jr_, ?
18:47 <wrtlprnft> back
18:47 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: don't delete something you put into a shared_ptr manually, ever
18:48 <wrtlprnft> you can use some other smart pointer that doesn't own its stuff. tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR would be one methinks
18:51 -!- Nixda557 [n=55e926f0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
18:51 <Nixda557> test
18:52 <spidey> test
18:52 -!- Nixda557 [n=55e926f0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:52 <spidey> lol?
18:53 <wrtlprnft> that was me
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19:08 <spidey> luke-jr_, ping
19:09 <wrtlprnft> *insert rant about people using "<nick>, <message>" instead of "<nick>: <message>"
19:09 <wrtlprnft> here*
19:09 <spidey> live with it
19:10 <wrtlprnft> then live with me being an idiot and writing in color all the time
19:10 <wrtlprnft> actually, i could and should get used to this
19:10 <spidey> lol
19:11 <wrtlprnft> lol^3
19:11 -!- groundpig [i=groundpi@rrcs-67-53-6-47.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
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19:14 <philippeqc>  back
19:14 <luke-jr_> spidey: pong
19:15 <philippeqc> back
19:16 <philippeqc> tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR is our local type of smart pointer?
19:16 <luke-jr_> spidey: they'll go out of business... trojans & hacking tools are probably violation of their ISP's ToS =p
19:16 <spidey> luke-jr_, try to ssh fallin-angels.com
19:16 <spidey> plzkthnx
19:16 <luke-jr_> ok
19:16 <luke-jr_> disable
19:16 <luke-jr_> d
19:16 <spidey> :/
19:16 <philippeqc> I'll have a look, but its a bit sad, seeing I have a big system with lots of shared_ptr to many objects, and one of them will be a tJUST_CONTROLED_PTR ;)
19:17 <groundpig> :B)
19:17 <luke-jr_> spidey: they kick you off?
19:17 <spidey> no
19:17 <spidey> well
19:18 <spidey> they took ssh
19:18 <spidey> but i'm talking to one of the admins about it
19:18 <luke-jr_> IIRC, you were getting rid of the site... what's left? =p
19:18 <spidey> http://www.fallin-angels.com/
19:18 <spidey> i changed it :>
19:18 <luke-jr_> Flash sucks
19:18 <spidey> lol
19:19 <philippeqc> yeah, Flash creates lots of vacuum
19:19 <luke-jr_> "We have caught 0 shameful hackers."
19:19 <luke-jr_> wtf
19:19 <groundpig> so i guess i need a lesson in the life cycle of game objects, i'll have to look into those in more detail
19:19 <groundpig> creating a zone - just calling new, which adds to the game lists, and syncs across network
19:20 <luke-jr_> yes
19:20 <luke-jr_> not all servers have unlimited RAM
19:20 <luke-jr_> ;P
19:20 <luke-jr_> I think you're supposed to use tNEW
19:20 <luke-jr_> but what would I know
19:20 <groundpig> could be :b)
19:20 <philippeqc> tNEW I think is a macro, in debug mode, it gives you more, in normal mode, it maps to new
19:21 <luke-jr_> which means it should be tNEW =p
19:21 <philippeqc> if my understanding is correct
19:21 <groundpig> but just calling RemoveFromGame() or RemoveFromList() when I want to get rid of a zone crashes the server immediately
19:21 <groundpig> so i guess the question is, if i have a game object that is syncing across the network, how do i get rid of it
19:22 <groundpig> the other object that is temporary like that is the gExplosion
19:22 <luke-jr_> don't winzones die when they collapse?
19:22 <luke-jr_> in fact
19:22 <luke-jr_> if you set your growth to negative
19:22 <luke-jr_> it will shrink and then delete itself...
19:22 <groundpig> i think they just go to 0 radius
19:22 <groundpig> but stick around
19:22 <luke-jr_> when they hit 0, they delete
19:22 <luke-jr_> I remember seeing code for that
19:23 <philippeqc> gExplosion can be a eGameObject. I know gWinZone are eNetGameObject.
19:23 <groundpig> does returning (true) in Timestep cause a delete?
19:23 <groundpig> because the zone does return (true) in Timestep when it shrinks to 0
19:23 <luke-jr_>     // kill this zone if it shrunk down to zero radius
19:23 <luke-jr_>     if ( GetExpansionSpeed() < 0 && GetRadius() <= 0 )
19:23 <luke-jr_>     {
19:23 <luke-jr_>         OnVanish();
19:23 <luke-jr_>         return true;
19:23 <luke-jr_>     }
19:23 <luke-jr_> maybe
19:24 <groundpig> but i think it still sticks around (because all my zones are doing the same thing as that)
19:24 <luke-jr_> instead of deleting them, try to set expansion and radius to negative?
19:24 <groundpig> philippeqc: you're right about that gExplosion, not a net object
19:25 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: we have lots of different own pointer types
19:25 <philippeqc> eNetGameObject are a bit more special (even thought they are child of eGameObject)
19:26 <groundpig> luke-jr_: that would make the zones disappear from the map, but it isn't solving the memory usage issue
19:26 <wrtlprnft> but at the moment you create an auto_ptr or shared_ptr you hand over ownership
19:26 <luke-jr_> groundpig: maybe
19:27 <luke-jr_> perhaps you need to set expansion to negative, but keep radius positive
19:27 <philippeqc> i think radius < 0 has more effect than just making it invisible
19:27 <luke-jr_> then, the clients will do their own deletion
19:27 <luke-jr_> because they will do their own shrink and delete
19:27 <groundpig> oh really, hadn't thought about it that way
19:27 <luke-jr_> I suggest replacing delete code with expansion=-1
19:27 <luke-jr_> and try that for a bit
19:28 <luke-jr_> should I make the change on spidey's server or wait for a patch?
19:28  * groundpig switches to IDE *
19:28 <groundpig> i'll try it quick
19:28 <luke-jr_> you can't test memory tho =p
19:29 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: the main list of game objects, what type of safe pointers is use there?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: dunno, but apparently one that owns its stuff
19:29 <philippeqc> ;)
19:30 <luke-jr_> groundpig: when are you going to subclass gZone properly?
19:31 <groundpig> i need to think about that some more
19:31 <groundpig> many of the zones i have share the same properties, but different ones enabled for different types
19:32 <luke-jr_> make a gPigZone w/ common stuff and subclass that =p
19:32 <luke-jr_> ok, so I should wait for a patch?
19:32 <groundpig> up to you, i'm changing my server now to see if it looks OK
19:33 <luke-jr_> ok, I'll wait
19:33 <luke-jr_> no point in both of us coding it
19:35 <philippeqc> weird. changed my safe ptr to zones for a tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR, it worked on the first run, and after that, the zones only existed in the minimap
19:35 <wrtlprnft> weird
19:36 <philippeqc> yes
19:37 <groundpig> oddly enough, that didn't remove them from the minmap
19:38 <wrtlprnft> ah
19:38 <wrtlprnft> the minimap uses another method to get to the zones
19:38 <wrtlprnft> look at the code for it
19:38 <groundpig> ok
19:38 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5814 /private/philippeqc/armagetronad/ (6 files in 3 dirs): zoneInfluence should now support 3 types of influences
19:38 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: but deleting a zone should remove it from the minimap
19:39 <wrtlprnft> because I didn't find another way to access them I made the zones put themselves into their own deque and remove themselves on delete
19:39 <groundpig> well i have to mow my lawn - bbl
19:39 <wrtlprnft> looks like the actual zone destructor isn't called
19:43 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-206-105.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
19:46 <luke-jr_> groundpig: make sure the expansion is not only negative, but small enough to take more than 1 frame
19:47 <luke-jr_> it will take a frame for the clients to be sync'd with the new value
19:47 <luke-jr_> and be sure the referense point is set
19:47 <wrtlprnft> either the zones don't get deleted or they exist multiple times
19:47 <groundpig>         //Don't allow going outside, kill it
19:47 <groundpig>         OnVanish();
19:47 <groundpig>         SetReferenceTime();
19:47 <groundpig>         SetExpansionSpeed(-1);
19:47 <groundpig>         SetRadius(0);
19:47 <groundpig>         RequestSync();
19:47 <groundpig>         return true;
19:47 <groundpig> that is what i tested with
19:47 <wrtlprnft> but the displayed zones don't get updated (the zones don't turn), and the minimap zone rendering code doesn't cache them
19:48 <groundpig> ok really have to go now :B)
19:48 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:48 <spidey> luke-jr_, ping
19:48 <philippeqc> cya
19:49 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: what does a tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR do?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: nothing, basically
19:50 <wrtlprnft> it just asserts if you try to dereference a 0-pointer
19:51 <philippeqc> my prob isnt deleting pointers too fast, just that the game deletes them too fast so I cant clean up my own extra collections.
19:52 <philippeqc> well, i havent started doing clean up during game play.
19:52 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: i don't know a solution for this one :S
19:53 <luke-jr_> spidey: what now? =p
19:53 <spidey> got ssh back :)
19:53 <philippeqc> I'll have to investigate how the zones are stored in the engine
19:53 <luke-jr_> groundpig: get rid of SetRadius
19:53 <philippeqc> wait! MAYBE the tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR does its job.
19:53 <luke-jr_> spidey: lol
19:54 <philippeqc> i havent checked when the zones are deleted
19:58 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: I might have to marry you
19:58 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:58 <philippeqc> or at least kiss you with a LOTS of tongue
19:59 <philippeqc> it works!!!! 
19:59 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:59 <wrtlprnft> also, look at the other kinds of pointers
19:59 <philippeqc> I will
20:00 <philippeqc> I just feel taht z-man might have manually implemented many of the ones that are found in other libs.
20:00 <wrtlprnft> he didn't do shared_ptr
20:00 <philippeqc> and the one I'm using seems like that
20:00 <wrtlprnft> (tSafePTR.h is the file)
20:00 <philippeqc> yes
20:01 <wrtlprnft> and of course it doesn't contain one comment :S
20:01 <philippeqc> the grid flushes every thing, then the parser is called, and there I flush my own selection of zones, and at that point the destructor of zone is called.
20:01 <philippeqc> ;)
20:02 <philippeqc> I'll fix a small "how come that is not working" and then you might expect my server to be back online
20:02 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:03 <philippeqc> and if all goes well, I'm nearly officially jammed because I'm waiting for your function parser and Joda's team code
20:03 <philippeqc> actually, more by Joda's team code. That unlucks more capacity
20:04 <philippeqc> your math parser just adds new possibilities
20:04 <wrtlprnft> once it's done
20:04 <philippeqc> yes, and once I go at every single place and start using tValues!
20:05 <wrtlprnft> it'll get slooow
20:06 <philippeqc> pfff, only server side
20:06 <philippeqc> ;)
20:06 <philippeqc> mouhahahahahahahahahaha
20:06 <philippeqc> ahahahahhahahahaha
20:06 <philippeqc> hahahahahahahahha
20:08 <philippeqc> it will only get slow when all of that (zones v2 + tValue) and pig's mod all are integrated
20:09 <wrtlprnft> z-man will be happy, he's just optimizing the server code on lagfarm
20:10 <philippeqc> lol
20:10 <philippeqc> yeah! more cycles now are available to waste on our side projects
20:11 <luke-jr_> tValue should be rewritten
20:11 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: go ahead
20:11 <luke-jr_> C++ uses too much memory for something so common
20:11 <luke-jr_> it needs to be C
20:12 <wrtlprnft> nah
20:12 <wrtlprnft> no
20:12 <wrtlprnft> don't
20:12 <luke-jr_> lol
20:12 <luke-jr_> seriously, tho
20:12 <wrtlprnft> stay away from my code!!!111!! WTF OMG LOL
20:12 <luke-jr_> if how it is right now means slow, we need to fix it =p
20:12 <wrtlprnft> slower
20:12 <luke-jr_> we're definately using tValue for all config settings tho =p
20:12 <wrtlprnft> it is slower than a hardcoded formula
20:13 <luke-jr_> that's not acceptable! =p
20:13 <luke-jr_> why can't it parse the formula once?
20:13 <wrtlprnft> it will
20:13 <philippeqc> cause the formula might depend on variable values
20:13 <philippeqc> you are allowed to store the result if that makes sence
20:13 <wrtlprnft> but it still has to calculate
20:13 <philippeqc> yep
20:13 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: I said *parse* =p
20:14 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: calculation should be possible at hardcoded speeds
20:14 <luke-jr_> just assigning a formula should take extra cycles
20:14 <wrtlprnft> but even the parsed value can't be as fast as a hardcoded formula
20:14 <luke-jr_> yes it can...
20:14 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: I though your math formula parser would build a tValue tree?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> it will
20:14 <philippeqc> ok
20:15 <philippeqc> then what is luke-jr_ talking about?
20:15 <wrtlprnft> but that will still be slower than the same formula hardcoded
20:15 <luke-jr_> if necessary, parse_formula(tString) can compile it to native code and return a pointer to a function
20:15 <wrtlprnft> oh, suuure
20:15 <wrtlprnft> and that will *still* be slower
20:15 <philippeqc> he luke-jr_  great idea. 
20:15 <luke-jr_> only to compile it
20:15 <philippeqc> why dont you code it
20:15 <luke-jr_> not to execute it
20:15 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: maybe I will
20:15 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-206-105.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:15 <wrtlprnft> do you have any idea how many cycles a function call takes?
20:15 <luke-jr_> but expect C code =p
20:15 <wrtlprnft> let me refresh you
20:16 <wrtlprnft> put the current position on the stack
20:16 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: there's a function call required in any case
20:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
20:16 <wrtlprnft> not if you hardcode it
20:16 <wrtlprnft> put the current frame pointer on the stack
20:16  * luke-jr_ ponders
20:16 <luke-jr_> so we avoid a function ;)
20:16 <luke-jr_> jump to the pointer and back
20:17 <wrtlprnft> jump to some piece of code (making the CPU cache useless in the way)
20:17 <luke-jr_> eg, inline function
20:17 <philippeqc> suddenly it seems that luke is arguing FOR a parser, and wrtlprnft for hardcoded stuff. I though you standed for the opposite here. 
20:17  * philippeqc is confused
20:17 <luke-jr_> lol
20:17 <wrtlprnft> you can't have a dynamic inline function
20:17 <luke-jr_> I don't like hardcoding
20:17 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: says who?
20:17 <wrtlprnft> i don't either
20:17 <wrtlprnft> me
20:17 <wrtlprnft> because an inline function has to have a known length
20:18 <luke-jr_> not always
20:18 <luke-jr_> that's just the most efficient inline function
20:18 <philippeqc> the point of an inline function is that the whole code gets to be INLINED into the binary at each location where it is used. Hence the name
20:18 <wrtlprnft> anyways
20:18 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: so then think of it as a goto
20:18 <philippeqc> lol vs the non efficient inline function that are knows as ..... functions
20:19 <luke-jr_> eg, no passing arguments
20:19 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr is talking BS, so I'll go do something other than listening to him
20:19 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: nah, I'm talking assembly
20:19 <philippeqc> luke, you always try to optimise the wrong stuff
20:19 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: a function without arguments is not an inline function
20:19  * luke-jr_ would just as well figure use a function, tho
20:19 <wrtlprnft> it still needs stack operation
20:19 <philippeqc> I bet you often try to optimise idle loops
20:20 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: no, but I complained about it
20:20 <luke-jr_> my idle loop was using 100% CPU one day
20:20 <philippeqc> same same
20:20 <luke-jr_> =p
20:20 <luke-jr_> anyhow, wrtlprnft was the one making a big deal over function call overhead
20:20 <wrtlprnft> so you wanna write a different function for every platform we support?
20:20 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: don't need to
20:20 <wrtlprnft> ah
20:20 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: are you familiar with qemu's method of emulation? ;)
20:21 <wrtlprnft> so you're gonna generate the same code for intel as for powerpc?
20:21 <luke-jr_> yes
20:21 <luke-jr_> or rather
20:21 <luke-jr_> have the build system generate the code that's different
20:21 <wrtlprnft> no, i only know that qemu is painfully slow
20:21 <luke-jr_> because qemu is translating at run-time
20:22 <luke-jr_> but it gets the output (native) bytecodes by compiling the comparable C code
20:22 <luke-jr_> and reading the output
20:22  * philippeqc gives up debating non-existing code and goes debuging existing code
20:22 <luke-jr_> or something like that
20:22 <luke-jr_> anyway, in general even interpreted bytecode is pretty quick
20:22 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: well, write a formula parser that does that
20:23 <luke-jr_> so just ensuring the parsing occurs once, and doesn't use a lot of RAM is should
20:23 <luke-jr_> is enough*
20:23 <luke-jr_> eg, don't use ASTs or C++ objects for the parsed result
20:23 <wrtlprnft> I WILL use C++ objects
20:23 <wrtlprnft> infact, tons of them
20:23 <luke-jr_> that will make it slow
20:23 <wrtlprnft> ah
20:23 <wrtlprnft> really
20:24 <luke-jr_> the only need for C++ objects is per-formula
20:24 <luke-jr_> not for formula 'contents'
20:24 <wrtlprnft> THEN WRITE YOUR FUCKING OWN CODE AND I'LL USE IT
20:24 <luke-jr_> ok, maybe
20:24 <philippeqc> gee, I have 3.5GHz cpu here. I wouldnt want it going to waste on something that has a short development time
20:24 <luke-jr_> I'll need to look at the current tValue first =p
20:25 <philippeqc> tValue is good, and now I've expanded it too. The problem is that I just cant recall exactly why I did it. Really.
20:26 <luke-jr_> in fact, parsing to bytecode gets another advantage too
20:26 <luke-jr_> the server can preparse stuff
20:26 <luke-jr_> and clients don't need to
20:26 <luke-jr_> but not very relevant
20:26 <wrtlprnft> so what?
20:26 <wrtlprnft> the server sends bytecode the clients will execute?!?!?!
20:26 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: clients will interpret
20:27 <philippeqc> like loading in tValue has an advantage too. The server could parse the equation and generate the tValue tree while reading the map, and then just use the resulting object during game play
20:27 <luke-jr_> but, in theory we could make it extensible such that new tValue stuff is implemented server-side only
20:27 <philippeqc> depends
20:27 <luke-jr_> yes
20:27 <luke-jr_> but in theory it's possible
20:27 <wrtlprnft> i don't want the server sending my client any kind of bytecode
20:27 <luke-jr_> I'm just not sure how, securely
20:27 <philippeqc> some stuff yes, some stuff no
20:27 <wrtlprnft> that's just too risky for me
20:27 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: the entire protocol is bytecode, so get over it =p
20:28 <luke-jr_> it's just higher-level right now
20:28 <wrtlprnft> bite code that's executed in some direct way
20:28 <luke-jr_> interpreting math is no less secure than interpreting game commands
20:28 <luke-jr_> security holes in tValue bytecode should be easy to prevent anyway
20:28 <luke-jr_> since they would be portability problems too
20:29 <luke-jr_> eg, we obviously don't want to use pointers
20:29 <luke-jr_> but on the other hand, that sacrifices some speed
20:29 <luke-jr_> so we need to weigh extensibility and speed
20:30 <luke-jr_> we could do 3 levels
20:30 <luke-jr_> 1) strings
20:30 <luke-jr_> 2) ASTs
20:30 <luke-jr_> 3) bytecode
20:30 <luke-jr_> the server could send 1 or 2
20:31 <luke-jr_> and 3 would be depend on the exact runtime circumstances (platform, memory layout, etc)
20:31 -!- Nixda025 [n=529879de@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
20:31 <luke-jr_> or we could even drop string parsing, and do a direct conversion from XML to AST-- or even use libxml2 constructs as ASTs
20:32 <luke-jr_> do we *need* string parsing anyway?
20:32 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:32 <wrtlprnft> for ususability
20:32 <luke-jr_> XML isn't usable enough? =p
20:32 <luke-jr_> ok, then
20:32  * wrtlprnft notes we already have XML parsing
20:33 <luke-jr_> yes
20:33 <wrtlprnft> XML formulas are a mess and noone understands them
20:33 <luke-jr_> ok
20:33 <luke-jr_> so if I write this in C, will people complain?
20:33 <wrtlprnft> i will
20:33 <luke-jr_> even if the tValue itself stays C++
20:33 <luke-jr_> ?
20:33 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad is a c++ project
20:33 <wrtlprnft> so all code should be x++
20:33 <wrtlprnft> *c++
20:33 <luke-jr_> it's already got C code =p
20:34 <luke-jr_> and our memmanager has been extended to support C code
20:34 <luke-jr_> and using C++ for this stuff will cause unnecessary memory usage and CPU waste
20:35 <luke-jr_> significantly
20:35 <wrtlprnft> right, and c++ code is a pain to read and maintain
20:35 <wrtlprnft> and that's why it's better to sacrifice some performance
20:35 <luke-jr_> you mean C?
20:35 <luke-jr_> it's not
20:36 <wrtlprnft> it is
20:36 <luke-jr_> only for someone who doesn't know C? =p
20:36 <philippeqc> the server already runs on a limited regime. So it has lots of cpu to spare, doesnt it?
20:36 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: not all servers
20:36 <luke-jr_> and CPU time increases latency
20:36 <luke-jr_> and tValues exist also on clients
20:36 <philippeqc> isnt the default of 40 runs / second?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> and clients have lots of CPU power to spare
20:37 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: not always
20:37 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: 200, IIRC
20:37 <philippeqc> 0.025 sec processing
20:37 <philippeqc> #g 1/200
20:37 <armabot> 1 / 200 = 0.005
20:37 <philippeqc> #g 1/40
20:37 <armabot> 1 / 40 = 0.025
20:38 <luke-jr_> also consider process switching
20:39 <philippeqc> do you have concrete examples of servers that are already barely able to support a regular game (not pig's)? and that you could back only on CPU, not bandwidth?
20:39 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I won't write mkdir_recurse-like code... =p
20:39 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: no, but ping times *will* drop if the server can process faster
20:39 <wrtlprnft> no
20:40 <luke-jr_> well, maybe ping times won't, but lag will
20:40 <luke-jr_> ping doesn't use much CPU to reply to ;)
20:40 <philippeqc> lol we have seen that there was 25 ms to shave here MAX!
20:40 <luke-jr_> 25ms is significant w/ Arma
20:40 <wrtlprnft> no
20:40 <philippeqc> I played on pig's today, nobody was under 150, most where at about 250
20:40 <luke-jr_> and we're not even using tValues everywhere yet
20:40 <wrtlprnft> 25ms predicable lag are nothing
20:41 <philippeqc> mkdir_recursive did the job properly, without needing pointers voodoo
20:41 <luke-jr_> the primary concern isn't *shaving* lag, but *reducing the increase* from using tValues for everything
20:41 <philippeqc> that makes it totally unmaintainable
20:41 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: actually, the original mkdir_recurse had a pretty bad security problem =p
20:41 <luke-jr_> IIRC
20:41 <luke-jr_> but I didn't write it to be readable
20:42 <luke-jr_> I wrote it to conserve lines of C code =p
20:42 <luke-jr_> so it would fit in my KWrite window
20:42 <wrtlprnft> good c++ code is readable by definition
20:42 <luke-jr_> good C code is just as readable
20:42 <wrtlprnft> efficient c code is a mess
20:42 <luke-jr_> if you define good as written to be readable
20:43 <luke-jr_> efficient C++ code is impossible =p
20:43 <philippeqc> yeah, but you wrote it to be FAST! and you are waiting for bunch load of IO operation that must be 1000000 times slower than anything else.
20:43 <wrtlprnft> btw
20:43 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: I primarily wrote it to fit in my Kwrite window
20:43 <wrtlprnft> it's the best practice to optimize code AFTER you wrote it
20:43 <philippeqc> so you degraded code maintainability for absulotly no gain (except performace)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> overoptimizing code while writing it is the door to hell
20:43 <philippeqc> s/performance/security
20:44 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:44 <wrtlprnft> it's more secure if noone can read/understand the code
20:44 <wrtlprnft> ms tactic
20:44 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: that won't work if the design is unoptimizable
20:44 <philippeqc> yeah, lets port the game to ASM!
20:45 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: ok, I'll write it in BISON
20:45 <luke-jr_> that's the perfect tool for the job!
20:45 <wrtlprnft> i have an idea
20:45 <wrtlprnft> armagetron in brainfuck!
20:45 <philippeqc> what is brainfuck?
20:45 <luke-jr_> ...
20:45 <wrtlprnft> ++--<><<>><[+<->][---[++]]
20:45 <luke-jr_> lol
20:45 <philippeqc> hummm
20:45 <wrtlprnft> that's brainfuck
20:45 <luke-jr_> why not write it in whitespace?
20:45 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia brainfuck
20:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.48 seconds: Hello world program in esoteric languages - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages>; List of esoteric programming languages - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_esoteric_programming_languages>; User talk:Rwald - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (3 more messages)
20:46 <wrtlprnft> because whitespace is a cheap brainfuck clone?
20:46 <luke-jr_> because you can't print whitespace
20:46 <luke-jr_> or read it, really
20:46 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: most of the concepts of the games can easily be encapsulated to objects
20:46 <philippeqc> good and sound design lead to more rapid development
20:47 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: objects add memory and CPU overhead, so should be avoided when unnecessary
20:47 <luke-jr_> tValue deals with functions, so functions should be used in that implementation
20:47 <philippeqc> we are 20 under the label of developers for this project, but I'm sure there isnt someone developing at each hour of the day (man hour)
20:47 <wrtlprnft> there is no rapid development if luke-jr_ is around
20:47 <luke-jr_> tValue should only do object stuff when objects are being used
20:48 <philippeqc> developers are our most scared resource. Wasting our time on false optimisation leads to no gain.
20:48 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: it's faster to write C code in this case, than C++
20:48  * wrtlprnft agress with philippeqc 
20:48 <philippeqc> CPU on the marked gain more power than we consumate
20:48 <luke-jr_> ok, I'll use C++ where it's appropriate then
20:48 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: no it is not
20:48 <wrtlprnft> look at windows vista
20:48 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: yes it is
20:48 <wrtlprnft> they don't care about performance
20:48 <wrtlprnft> they just tell the users to purchase 4G of ram
20:49 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: and everyone using it complains its slow
20:49 <groundpig> philippeqc: sounds like you might have figured out how to delete the zones?
20:49 <philippeqc> your confusing "it is faster for luke to do some things in C than C++" with "it is faster to develop object concepts in C++"
20:49 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: wait a year and everyone and his dog will be using it, even if it's slow
20:49 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: tValue components aren't object concepts
20:49 <philippeqc> groundpig: heuu, no not really
20:49 <luke-jr_> ok, instead of arguing over general C and C++, let's address the actual issue
20:49 <philippeqc> just stopped a crash for my code
20:50 <luke-jr_> ASTs are mere storage
20:50 <luke-jr_> the obvious solution for them is a struct
20:50 <wrtlprnft> no
20:50 <luke-jr_> a C++ object could be used, but with added overhead and no gains
20:50 <philippeqc> what overhead?
20:50 <luke-jr_> and the only difference is in definition, use is the same
20:50 <wrtlprnft> readability
20:50 <groundpig> philippeqc: ok :)
20:50 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: the code reads the same, except the definition which is more readable for a struct
20:51 <wrtlprnft> not if you have functions that use it
20:51 <wrtlprnft> void doSomethingWithThisStruct(ThisStruct *str, params) is less readable than void ThisStruct::DoSomething(params)
20:51 <luke-jr_> structs use -> just like C++ objects
20:51 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: no it is not
20:51 <luke-jr_> struct coord { int x; int y; } is more readable than the tCoord definition
20:51 <philippeqc> so struct are objects! but structs dont have inheretance. That is dealt by the compiler. Cost: compile time, not run time.
20:51 <luke-jr_> the only reason tCoord should be an object is that it needs methods
20:52 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: you might be right-- not sure how it's compiled
20:52 <philippeqc> C++ is the compiler giving you better tools to address problems. 
20:52 <philippeqc> in the end, it crunches it to C
20:52 <luke-jr_> ok, so how about I write it using structs and we can convert struct to objects later? =p
20:53 <wrtlprnft> no
20:53 <luke-jr_> they're close enough
20:53 <wrtlprnft> wrong way
20:53 <spidey> wow
20:53 <luke-jr_> less developer time that way
20:53 <philippeqc> to the question "what is done in C++ that you cant do in C" A: nothing. So why C++? Because the effort of doing it in C is not worth it.
20:53 <spidey> opening a 1.8kb .php in kwrite = killingme O.o
20:53 <luke-jr_> I can write it quickest using structs
20:53 <wrtlprnft> right
20:53 <luke-jr_> and time to convert is minimal
20:53 <wrtlprnft> but it is usable the quickest by using objects
20:54 <luke-jr_> no, because writing the object definition is more complex
20:54 <luke-jr_> and objects only work if there's one AST you're dealing with
20:54 <philippeqc> sed -e "s/struct/class/" 
20:54 <luke-jr_> which usually isn't the case
20:55 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: that might work, dunno
20:55 <philippeqc> no, you will have everything as private
20:55 <luke-jr_> o
20:55 <luke-jr_> brb
20:55 <philippeqc> AST = ?
20:55 <luke-jr_> ...
20:56 <wrtlprnft> AST= A Stupid Term
20:56 <wrtlprnft> SCNR
20:56 <philippeqc> :)
20:56 <luke-jr_> #wikipedia AST
20:56 <armabot> luke-jr_: Search took 0.17 seconds: Abstract syntax tree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_syntax_tree>; AST - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AST>; AST Research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AST_Research>; Bl' ast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (2 more messages)
20:56 <luke-jr_> brb now
20:56 <philippeqc> is brb now supposed to be written "I'm back"
20:57 <philippeqc> oo ok, now he is going away
20:57 <wrtlprnft> good
20:58 <luke-jr_> back
20:58 <luke-jr_> I've decided
20:59 <philippeqc> groundpig: actually, I figured a way NOT to delete zones
20:59 <philippeqc> and to delete them at the right time ;)
20:59 <luke-jr_> time_to_write_classes - time_to_write_structs > time_to_argue_structs
20:59 <groundpig> philippeqc: oh that would be helpful
20:59 <groundpig> what is the right time?
20:59 <philippeqc> I changed my reference to them to tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR
21:00 <philippeqc> so it knows that I'm interested, and when its pointer goes out, it is not killed, just wait as there is still one reference.
21:00 <luke-jr_> so I'll just use BISON++ (C++ BISON) for string=>AST and C++ for AST=>bytecode
21:00 <groundpig> is this new code where you have another ref to them, other than just the game lists?
21:00 <philippeqc> yes
21:00 <groundpig> ok
21:00 <wrtlprnft> do whatever you want
21:00 <philippeqc> so its sadly nothing of use for you
21:01  * wrtlprnft has never seen luke-jr_ actually really finishing something he wanted to write
21:01 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: why dont you write the formula parser yourself?
21:01 <wrtlprnft> because luke-jr_ will only annoy me, telling me it is lame?
21:01 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-217-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
21:02 <philippeqc> and....................... ? waiting for the real reason
21:02 <philippeqc> Louven keept attacking me daily (indirectly) in the forum for a long time.... see how it stopped me.
21:02 <wrtlprnft> because I am not in the mood to finish it right now
21:02 <philippeqc> o that IS a good reason
21:02 <wrtlprnft> so I'll wait for luke-jr_ to write it
21:03 <philippeqc> i guess you've started it
21:03 <wrtlprnft> then tell him how lame it is
21:03 <philippeqc> lol
21:03 <wrtlprnft> then tell him to rewrite it again
21:03 <wrtlprnft> and wait until he drops it
21:03 <philippeqc> sorry, how ungentleman of you
21:03 <wrtlprnft> then I'll finish my parser
21:03 <wrtlprnft> and use that
21:03 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: and if mine isn't that bad? =p
21:03 <wrtlprnft> at least I will had had some fun in the meantime
21:03 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: that's to be awaited :D
21:03 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: so you won't dismiss it regardless?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> no
21:04 <luke-jr_> will you consider it bad for using BISON[++]?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> as long as I won't have to use it, no
21:04 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: have you ever considering learning C++?
21:04 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: do you know what BISON is? =p
21:05 <wrtlprnft> i know that a bison is one of those furry animals in MTS commercials
21:05 <luke-jr_> ...
21:05 <luke-jr_> it's a parser generator
21:05 <luke-jr_> more-or-less an addition to C/C++ to do parsing
21:08 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: that will add one more dependency to the project
21:09 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: it's a common dependency for anything that parses
21:09 <philippeqc> i know
21:10 <philippeqc> that was just to play with you. sorry
21:10 <philippeqc> I'll ask my question again: luke, have you ever considered learning C++=
21:10 <luke-jr_> np, wasn't sure if you were serious or not =p
21:10 <philippeqc> s/=/?
21:10 <philippeqc> its ok, it was a bit mean of me.
21:11 <philippeqc> as I said, I'm sorry.
21:11 <luke-jr_> I learn C++ every time I use it
21:12 <luke-jr_> it never makes it into long-term memory
21:12 <philippeqc> how often do you use it (plz dont answer "as little as possible" or something similar)
21:12 <luke-jr_> Arma is the only C++ project I'm a developer for
21:12 <luke-jr_> and even then, I avoid C++
21:13 <philippeqc> I'll suggest you a link, it has a KICK ass book for C++. It is now my only reference. it is writen in an intelligent fashion, and goes in depth like I've never seen in any other book.
21:13 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]"]
21:13 <luke-jr_> books are usually pretty useless to me
21:13 <philippeqc> online book
21:14 <philippeqc> latex files, pdf, ps and html
21:14 <philippeqc> http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cpp.shtml
21:14 <luke-jr_> though general references are useful, but that's what man pages are for
21:14 <wrtlprnft> is there a man page on how to program in C?
21:14 <philippeqc> I never found out how one is supposed to kick in the man pages for C++, neither in gentoo nor in Mandriva. 
21:14 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: man strcmp
21:15 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: that doesn't tell you how to program in C
21:15 <wrtlprnft> that tells you about one particular C function
21:15 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I said reference, not learn =p
21:15 <philippeqc> this book gives you more than just syntax, it tell you how the parts fall together, the mistakes you should avoid and the solution for some very complex problems
21:15 <luke-jr_> I don't learn in the normal fashon
21:16 <luke-jr_> I look at existing code and start writing
21:16 <luke-jr_> and just use a reference for library stuff
21:16 <wrtlprnft> so
21:16 <wrtlprnft> you look at existing C++ coee
21:16 <wrtlprnft> *code
21:16 <wrtlprnft> and start writing C code
21:16 <wrtlprnft> great way to learn
21:16 <luke-jr_> nah, I don't need to look at C code to write it =p
21:17 <luke-jr_> anyway, I write parsers now
21:18  * luke-jr_ ponders the best way to do a test suite
21:18 <luke-jr_> can you both start spitting out strings to test it with? =p
21:18 <philippeqc> funaise!!!!
21:18 <philippeqc> i think I have found my problem
21:19 <philippeqc> darn complexity
21:20 <spidey> php-nuke = frustrating :(
21:21 <luke-jr_> ...
21:21 <spidey> well
21:21 <wrtlprnft> php-nuke = teh suck
21:22  * spidey wishes he could say the
21:22 <spidey> "T E H"
21:22 <spidey> bah
21:22 <groundpig> philippeqc: for zone to wall interactions, would it be best to check in Timestep or InteractWith?
21:23 <philippeqc> timestep
21:23 <groundpig> thanks
21:23 <philippeqc> interact with is for other game objects
21:23 <philippeqc> called many times during a "tic"
21:23 <philippeqc> timestep is called only once per "tic"
21:24 <groundpig> it looks like Timestep() is called far more than InteractWith() though, so I thought i would clarify with you
21:24 <luke-jr_> InteractWith still exists? O.o
21:24 <philippeqc> timestep is called once every loop of the game, thats for sure
21:24  * luke-jr_ knows z-man was removing that a while ago...
21:25 <philippeqc> it could be taht interactWith is called when it knows that something has met something else, to deal with the consequence. but thats a big maybe
21:25 <groundpig>     if (!eWallRim::IsBound(c->pos,-20))
21:25 <groundpig>         c->Kill();
21:25 <groundpig>     else if (TimestepThis(simTime,c))
21:25 <groundpig>     {
21:25 <groundpig>         if (c->autodelete)
21:25 <groundpig>             c->RemoveFromGame();
21:25 <groundpig>         else
21:26 <groundpig>         {
21:26 <groundpig>             c->currentFace=NULL;
21:26 <groundpig>             c->RemoveFromList();
21:26 <groundpig>         }
21:26 <groundpig>     }
21:26 <groundpig>     else if (sn_GetNetState()!=nCLIENT)
21:26 <groundpig>         for(int j=grid->gameObjectsInteresting.Len()-1;j>=0;j--)
21:26 <groundpig>             c->InteractWith(grid->gameObjectsInteresting(j),currentTime,0);
21:26 <groundpig> TimestepThis calls Timestep() a bunch of times
21:27 <philippeqc> i'd go with timestep, (vs interactwith)
21:27 <groundpig> ok
21:27 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: can you give me an example tValue string plz?
21:27 <luke-jr_> I don't know what to parse!
21:27 <luke-jr_> lol
21:27 <philippeqc> timestepthis I think will deal with too long time intervals and cut them down in manageable time peices to pass to timestep
21:27 <wrtlprnft> the parser doesn't exist yet
21:28 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I am writing it
21:28 <luke-jr_> I need to know what to parse to write it
21:28 <wrtlprnft> just any formula with callbacks, an extensible function system, and standard operators
21:28 <philippeqc> wait, looking for my paper
21:28 <groundpig> wrtlprnft: did you say the minimap doesn't do zone position updates or zone deletion?
21:28 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: example of syntax?
21:28 <luke-jr_> and how do you mean callbacks?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> groundpig: the minimap just reads the zones
21:29 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: ...
21:29 <wrtlprnft> some string that is replaced by a function call
21:29 <wrtlprnft> ie you say "cycle_rubber * 42"
21:29 <wrtlprnft> that should call a function that is defined somewhere else
21:29 <luke-jr_> ok
21:30 <wrtlprnft> this function will return somthing
21:30 <luke-jr_> yes
21:30 <wrtlprnft> then multiply it by 42
21:30 <wrtlprnft> oh, and it has to work with strings as well
21:30 <luke-jr_> so "cycle_rubber" should be expanded to "cycle_rubber(average)"?
21:30 <wrtlprnft> so "player_name + team_name" should work
21:30 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: no, it shouldn't
21:30 <wrtlprnft> there should be a list in the source code somewhere assigning strings to callback functions
21:31 <luke-jr_> so + to concatenate?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> so there would be a cb_cycle_rubber somewhere
21:31 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:31 <wrtlprnft> or . if you like
21:31 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: which cycle's rubber would it refer to? =p
21:31 <philippeqc> x+k*cos(t)      , t = current game time, k = fixed value, x can be fixed, or could be the result of another equation. Start with fixed
21:31 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: sorry if its a nasty one, but feel free to adapt
21:32 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: thanks
21:33 <philippeqc> but that is how I'd write it, wrtlprnft might have better ideas
21:33 <wrtlprnft> well
21:33 <wrtlprnft> i think having short names is a bad idea
21:33 <wrtlprnft> t would end up being a callback or float *
21:33 <philippeqc> yes
21:33 <wrtlprnft> maybe just name it game_time or something
21:34 <wrtlprnft> but luke-jr_ doesn't have to work about it
21:34 <luke-jr_> so... functions need not have ()?
21:34 <philippeqc> yes, because I'd like to have game_time and just current_clock (ie, just some time value, not related to the start of a match/round
21:34 <wrtlprnft> that wouldn't be meant as a function
21:35 <wrtlprnft> there's callbacks/variables (the user doesn't know the difference)
21:35 <wrtlprnft> and there's normal functions like cos()
21:35 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft's callback never takes arguments, they just inspect current game status and return something (my interpretation)
21:36 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:36 <wrtlprnft> basically they're functions without arguments
21:36 <wrtlprnft> I'm ok if you don't make a difference and just allow omiting the brackets for functions that don't take arguments
21:37 <luke-jr_> callbacks/variables need to have a nesting format... o.o
21:37 <luke-jr_> eg, player(wrtlprnft).cycle
21:37 <luke-jr_> or something
21:38 <wrtlprnft> if you want
21:38 <wrtlprnft> like, closestPlayer().speed would make sense
21:39 <luke-jr_> you know, when this is done, we might have a good start for our own scripting language =p
21:39 <philippeqc> yes, i know that
21:40 <philippeqc> and I know how "flexible" the zone system is, and that tells me that we are really getting to be in need of scripting soon
21:40 <luke-jr_> oh, commonly evaluated tValues should be a simple "return currentValue"
21:40 <luke-jr_> eg, they attach hooks to sub-tValues that tell them "when you change, let me know"
21:41 <luke-jr_> so if a player gets closer than another, the closestPlayer tValue gets updated then
21:41 <wrtlprnft> that might be hard
21:41 <luke-jr_> maybe, but worth it
21:42 <luke-jr_> I'm going to at least plan for that being added in the future when I write code
21:42 <wrtlprnft> since if some value comes from deep in the engine it might be next to impossible to create hooks everywhere
21:42 <luke-jr_> unless tValue itself supports hooks =p
21:42 <luke-jr_> currentPlayer might be a bad example tho
21:43 <luke-jr_> that would need special hook code
21:43 <luke-jr_> err, closest
21:44 <luke-jr_> anyway
21:44 <luke-jr_> the evaluation of the last statement in a 'function' can be a return value
21:45 <luke-jr_> so, a tValue that is merely "1 + 2" returns 3
21:45 <luke-jr_> but you can still do "a=1; b=2; a+b"
21:47 <luke-jr_> should be use 0xFF for hex?
21:47 <luke-jr_> like C/C++?
21:47 <luke-jr_> or just forget hex? =p
21:47 <wrtlprnft> oh, of course use it
21:47 <wrtlprnft> and 0777 for oct
21:47  * luke-jr_ is thinking maybe do that later
21:47 <wrtlprnft> and base(42, "a5Dx")
21:47 <luke-jr_> hex/octal aren't common use
21:48 <wrtlprnft> err
21:48 <wrtlprnft> everyone and their dog is using color codes in arma
21:49 <[Xpert]DarkStar> not me
21:49 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: within strings O.o
21:49 <luke-jr_> not as numbers
21:51 <luke-jr_> we need to support floats and coords right away? O.o
21:53 <philippeqc> hehe, conquering a zone made another dissapear!
21:54 <luke-jr_> O.o
21:55 <philippeqc> monitors are roolling
21:56 <philippeqc> gonna set up my server
21:56 <philippeqc> I'd like some help to conquer the blue zone
21:57 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5815 /private/philippeqc/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gParser.cpp zone/zMonitor.cpp zone/zZoneInfluence.h): zZonePtr changed type to avoid memory corruption, and zMonitors can reset themself
21:58 <wrtlprnft> zZone lol
21:58 <philippeqc> the problems with projects like that, when your done, you really no longer have good ideas of what to do with them
21:59 <philippeqc> he, got inspired by your cockpit idea, so there are all my zone related class there
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21:59 <philippeqc> zEffectGroup.cpp  zEffector.cpp  zMonitor.cpp  zSelector.cpp  zValidator.cpp  zZone.cpp  zZoneInfluence.cpp
22:00 <wrtlprnft> ah
22:00 <wrtlprnft> makes sense
22:00 <philippeqc> i try to, even though sometime i must be that obvious ;)
22:00 <wrtlprnft> now we habe nutgwecsz as prefixes
22:00 <wrtlprnft> *have
22:00 <philippeqc> lol, nearly a word
22:01 <philippeqc> it is very plural, it end both in c, s and z
22:01 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:02 <philippeqc> server is up
22:03 <wrtlprnft> map isn't in the repository
22:03 <wrtlprnft> can't download it
22:03 <philippeqc> o ok
22:03 <luke-jr_> lol
22:03 <philippeqc> hummm, dtd and map would be required
22:03 <philippeqc> let me do the same hack as last time
22:04 <wrtlprnft> just make your own repository
22:04 <wrtlprnft> as luke-jr_'s isn't flexible
22:04 <philippeqc> uploading is such a pain
22:04 <philippeqc> and doing a repo too
22:06 <philippeqc> try now
22:06 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: wtf?
22:06 <luke-jr_> uploading is picking the file and submitting
22:07 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: now I'm timing out connecting to it
22:07 <philippeqc> me too
22:07 <philippeqc> weird
22:07 <philippeqc> will take 1 min
22:09 <luke-jr_> expr:
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	  tINTEGER
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	| tFLOAT
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	| tSTRING
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	| function
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	| expr '+' expr
22:09 <luke-jr_> 	| expr '-' expr
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	| expr '*' expr
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	| expr '/' expr
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	| '-' expr %prec tUNARYMINUS
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	| '(' expr ')'
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	;
22:10 <luke-jr_> function:
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	  tID
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	| tID '(' arglist ')'
22:10 <luke-jr_> 	;
22:10 <luke-jr_> look good for basics?
22:10 <philippeqc> up again
22:10 <luke-jr_> ?
22:16 <spidey> #night
22:16 <armabot> Good night spidey!
22:17 <luke-jr_> should function/variable/callback references be resolved at parse time, compile time, or run time?
22:17  * luke-jr_ leans toward compile time
22:18 <philippeqc> not compile, then it means that this is unusable from maps
22:22 -!- wtf8 [n=57715896@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
22:24 -!- wtf8 is now known as efwf
22:24  * Lucifer_arma wonders if armabot has any messages for him
22:25  * Lucifer_arma thinks probably not
22:25 -!- efwf [n=57715896@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> hi there
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:26 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:30 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B81E1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:32 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=408
22:32 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BB527.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
22:33 <wrtlprnft> that's how it looked for me using the current trunk
22:33 <wrtlprnft> good night now
22:33  * luke-jr_ posted about tCode
22:34 <wrtlprnft> what about tCPlusPlus?
22:34 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: solved your dependency problem ;)
22:36 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: sound's good, I'll come back tomorrow for results :D
22:37 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: can't guarantee integration by tomorrow =p
22:37 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I'm writing it isolated from the project ATM
22:37 <luke-jr_> so I can compile a testcase application
22:38 <luke-jr_> eg, feed it a number of expressions and expected results
22:38 <luke-jr_> and report any inconsistencies
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> I knew it, my wife thinks that's a cool plane
22:52 <luke-jr_> ...
22:55 <philippeqc> 3 red! weird
22:56 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: ?
22:57 <luke-jr_> 3 red?
22:57 <philippeqc> what was your comment about?
22:58 <luke-jr_> ???
22:58 <philippeqc> 3 red: check wrtlprnft screenshot, and you will see 3 red zones in the minimap, where 1 should be
22:58 <philippeqc> luke-jr_ philippeqc: solved your dependency problem ;)
22:58 <philippeqc> ??? ^
22:58 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: oh
22:59 <luke-jr_> my requirements are to make the parser optional at compile-time
22:59 <luke-jr_> if the parser is disabled, no dep on BISON
22:59 <philippeqc> ok nice
22:59 <luke-jr_> a client w/o a parser can still play on servers that use tCode
22:59 <luke-jr_> they'll just get pre-parsed ASTs
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> $124,540 for a 1975 cessna of sorts
23:00 <philippeqc> saw a 69 for 45k
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> on ebay?
23:00 <philippeqc> yes
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> a jet?
23:00 <philippeqc> cessna 1969
23:01 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: what is the gain of getting AST vs string?
23:01 <philippeqc> for the client
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the only jet I'm seeing on ebay is $119,000
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, there's a lot of prop cessnas, but my wife wants a jet :)
23:02 <philippeqc> i didnt see a jet category
23:02 <philippeqc> ooooooooooo
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> she wants a True Luxury Jet Plane
23:02 <philippeqc> didnt know cessna did jets
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> http://motors.search.ebay.com/jet_Aircraft_W0QQfcclZ1QQfclZ3QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsacatZ63676QQssPageNameZWLRS
23:02 <philippeqc> and you'll get her one from ebay ;)
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's a Lear, heh
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's a price competitive thing
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> if we're going to set a goal, we need to set it for a realistic price.
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> And it is worth a few thousand dollars to buy a plane already assembled, even though it would be really fun to build it myself
23:03 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: AST is already parsed
23:03 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: even if the client has a parser, it might not be the latest
23:04 <luke-jr_> eg, the server can support a newer syntax than the client and it can still work
23:04 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: its for 1/4 of the plane
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> the lear?
23:04 <philippeqc> yes
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> oh, that's not gonna work
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, at least now I know I'm not talking out my ass when I tell her a jet is waaaay out of our price range
23:04 <philippeqc> yeah, because you'll fry it SOOO much
23:05 <philippeqc> fly
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> alright, here we go
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> a Velocity is $102,000 when you put a bunch of other shit on it
23:11 <philippeqc> other shit?
23:11 <philippeqc> other shit like engine and navigation or other shit like leather seats?
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> yes :)
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> er, actually the upholstery kit is vinyl and cloth
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> but the instruments, engine, autopilot, instrument cluster, and seats are "other shit"
23:12 <philippeqc> oooooo
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's with the 260hp engine, too, not the 310hp that's available
23:13 <philippeqc> so the airplane is body + engine
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> I can do without the autopilot, I think
23:13 <philippeqc> airplane = 45k, + engine + other shit = 105k
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> unless it's FAA mandated, obviously
23:13 <philippeqc> yes
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> but the radio is around $8500 and you have to have that
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> $1200 seems a bit steep for the instruments, though
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> we're only talking tach, fuel pressure, oil temperature, volt meter
23:14 <philippeqc> yeah, when you can get a perfectly normal compas inside a cereal box
23:15 <philippeqc> 9700 for now, 
23:15 <philippeqc> how much is the engine
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> 29k.  It's freshly-overhauled, so it's not exactly new, not exactly used
23:16 <philippeqc> 29k+10k+45k=84k
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> ooo, that doesn't include exhaust and stuff.  Add another $4000 to make it "safe" and mount it :)
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> the propellor is $3250
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> This is a "sample" budget.  If I'd wind up paying half of these listed prices I'd be surprised
23:17 <philippeqc> basic one I guess, i read in diagonal about the 3 blades, constant rotation speed one
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> The propellor listed is the Catto 3-Blade fixed pitch
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> whatever that means
23:18 <philippeqc> pitch of the blades doesnt change
23:18 <philippeqc> so angle of attack might not be efficient at all speeds, 
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, now we're talking
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> $54k for the kit with the retractable gears and the 5 seat option
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> $47k for the engine, that's the 310hp one
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> And here's your fancy propellor, for $10k
23:20 <philippeqc> hehe
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> leather upholstery kit
23:20 <philippeqc> oooo
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> $2800
23:20 <philippeqc> that is some nice leather
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> fancy autopilot
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> the $20k radio includes GPS and some other navigational goodies
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> here's the thing about that, though
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> I can build a computer for $500, get an LCD for another $500
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> Then a GPS unit for around $100 for it
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> right?
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> Then code and miscellaneous electronic parts gets me all the instrumentation I need
23:23 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034178231.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> so I just need the cheapest radio that'll let me talk to any American airport
23:23 <philippeqc> humm, your desktop variety of equipment might not appreciate the rigous of flyght
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> if the thing could make the hop to Europe, it should work there too
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, my laptop can fly just fine :)
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> I think flying is less stress on the computer than driving, actually, and we're only talking about a prop plane
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> There isn't going to be serious g-forces on you during takeoff like there is in a jet
23:25 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: GPSDrive for software? =p
23:25 <philippeqc> not g-forces, but vibrations
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> that's all in the mounting
23:26 <philippeqc> your screen is good agains glare?
23:26 <luke-jr_> some LCDs require sunlight ;)
23:26 -!- Nixda025 [n=529879de@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's doable anyway
23:27 <philippeqc> might be
23:27 <philippeqc> i'm just not at easy with cutting corner about flying ;)
23:28 <philippeqc> yes you could fly instrument blind in most conditions, but you just need one where you cant
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  as long as the corners you cut are within your area of expertise, you're fine :)
23:28 <luke-jr_> shttpd.c:2297: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> we're only talking about the oil pressure, tachometer, and fuel gauges
23:28 <philippeqc> o ok
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> the altimeter and artificial horizon are provided by a different gauge whose presense is non-negotiable
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> and we're talking about using the computer for navigation
23:29 <philippeqc> that is the cheapeast package you mentionned!
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> fallback would be to a magnetic compass and paper maps, which is reasonable :)
23:29 <philippeqc> i think to fly over the ocean, you are required to have 2 engines
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'd either do the upholstery myself (i.e. without the kit, I can sew), or I'd buy the vinyl kit, screw the leather
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> well, with only 933mi of range, we're talking about leaving from newfoundland and hopping to iceland, then Ireland
23:30 <philippeqc> the air lines do that
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> only if they have a stop :)
23:31 <philippeqc> nope
23:31 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: who requires it?
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> they really stop along the way?
23:31 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: oceans are international waters =p
23:31 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870512.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> and yeah, who would require it?  oceans are international...
23:31 <philippeqc> no, that is the flight path
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> right, it's the flight path, because it's shorter than taking the Columbus Trail ;)
23:32 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: dont know, might have dreamt it, just accepted it as plosible, since if you loose an engine, you have a second, vs none
23:32 <luke-jr_> I'm sure it's probably a decent idea =p
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> in the other direction I could hop to alaska, then cross to Russia, then down into China
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I'd have to pass North Korea on that path
23:32 <philippeqc> safest too, shortest distance between points where you can land
23:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, what's the difference if you lose your only engine 15k feet over water or 15k feet over land?
23:33 <luke-jr_> you crash and burn on land
23:33 <philippeqc> when I flew to albucurqui (bad spelling), from europe (paris or in the netherland), that is the path we took
23:33 <Lucifer_arma> right, where you might be able to skip and float in water :)
23:33 <luke-jr_> yeah, possibly
23:33 <philippeqc> luke-jr_: nowadays, they put well on planes
23:33 <luke-jr_> of course, if you bring parachutes... land might be best
23:34 <luke-jr_> well, not for the people on the ground, but for you
23:34 <luke-jr_> philippeqc: well?
23:34 <philippeqc> weel
23:34 <philippeqc> wheel
23:34 <philippeqc> grrr
23:34 <luke-jr_> so?
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> well, you've gotta keep the engine in good condition
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> you wouldn't abuse it the way you would a car engine
23:34 <philippeqc> and they dump fuel before touching ground
23:35 <philippeqc> he I just repeated something I though I heard,! ;)
23:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.faa.gov/ATs/aat/ifim/ifim0108.htm
23:41 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5816 /private/philippeqc/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/zZoneInfluence.cpp: eliminated some ghost zones
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> ok, for the North Atlantic, basically Canada makes the call
23:42 <luke-jr_> init.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `main'
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> so, you have to comply with Canadian law if your flight originates in canada, which is going to be the case for all light aircraft crossing the ocean
23:42 <philippeqc> ok
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> it *looks* like the velocity can do it
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> and then it needs to meet European laws in order to tool around Europe, obviously
23:44 <philippeqc> ok, well that would be great
23:44 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5817 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp: Whoops, typo. Clamped the wrong variable. A new match was started every time a team was created or deleted.
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r5818 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp:
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 5811 to 5817:
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad:  r5817 | z-man | 2006-07-23 23:44:27 +0200 (Sun, 23 Jul 2006) | 1 line
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad:  Whoops, typo. Clamped the wrong variable. A new match was started every time a team was created or deleted.
23:47 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
23:48 <philippeqc> dumb thing because I should go to bed. in an overloaded method, how to I call the parents method?
23:48 <z-man> Per explicit scope
23:49 <z-man> for example, gCycle::Timestep calls gCycleMovement::Timestep()
23:49 <z-man> just as I wrote it
23:49 <philippeqc> eNetGameObject::RemoveFromGame from gZone::RemoveFromGame ?
23:49 <z-man> jo
23:51 <luke-jr_> can you have sub-namespaces in C++?
23:51 <luke-jr_> eg, tCode::Expr::Add
23:51 <z-man> Yes
23:52 <luke-jr_> just put namespace inside a namespace? or?
23:53 <philippeqc> yes
23:53 <philippeqc> thanks z-man. seem to work, but as the second round, a new bug occurs
23:53 <luke-jr_> z-man: what do you think of my tCode plans?
23:54 <philippeqc> I wanted to remove a "dead" zone from the minimap
23:54 <philippeqc> gonna turn for the night
23:54 <z-man> luke-jr_: don't know yet. since when do we want our own custom scripting language?
23:54 <philippeqc> many good thing where done today, and I'm quite happy about them ;)
23:54 <philippeqc> #night
23:54 <armabot> Good night philippeqc!
23:54 <luke-jr_> z-man: maybe we don't, but the point was if we did, tCode could easily be extended into one
23:55 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:55 <z-man> ok, so this is our mini formula parser then?
23:55 <luke-jr_> right now, it's just going to do expressions that tValue would do
23:55 <luke-jr_> parser, compiler, and interpretor
23:55 <luke-jr_> so it's *fast* =p
23:56 <luke-jr_> and extensible
23:59 <z-man> sounds basically cool

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