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Log from 2006-06-13:
--- Day changed Tue Jun 13 2006
00:21 <spidey> lucifer
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> what?
00:41 <spidey> gots a question
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> ok, go
00:42 <spidey> when i play on faster servers i get more bugs,like i'll double bind on the rim and i'll stick there then explode,teleporting,exploding with half rubber left
00:42 <spidey> are those bugs or due to the server settigns
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> server settings
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> as your speed goes up, the noticeability of the mistakes goes up
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> like, say you have 10% packet loss
00:42 <spidey> k
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> you play on a slow speed server, the lost packets don't represent much in the way of actual movement on the grid
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, if you're going 6m/s and you lose 10% of your packets each second, the most you lose in terms of sync is 0.6 m/s, right?
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> now take the same cycle and put it at 100m/s.  Now you're losing 10m/s
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> when you do get a sync, that means teleporting and lag sliding.
00:44 <spidey> hmmm
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> You also lose the same information for other players, which includes turns.  So when a sync comes, you'll find walls that weren't there before
00:44 <spidey> would packet loss be server side or clientside?
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> high rubber and high speeds both affect the appearance of lag
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> packet loss is network, there's nothing we can do about it
00:44 <spidey> i know
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> now, if we're actually losing packets in our own code, that's a very serious problem
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> but outside of that, there's nothing we can do.  For all you know, your isp drops every 4th armagetron packet just to be a dick
00:45 <spidey> hahah
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'd suggest running the client on linux if you can, just because linux has a better network setup all the way around than windows
00:45 <spidey> i can but i can't
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> and of course servers that run on linux tend to be much better than servers run on windows
00:46 <spidey> the linux lcd screen is o my right and about 11 inches above my head
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> dual-boot your windows machine?
00:46 <spidey> can't i run 2 servers on it
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> you're running a server on your windows machine?  are you nuts?
00:46 <spidey> ...
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> there are other factors I haven't mentioned, I just kinda focused on packet loss :)
00:47 <spidey> it's got a better L2 cache and FSB than my nix pc
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> you didn't tell me the server versions, and some of those effects you described could be caused by older server versions that interpret the rules a little differently
00:47 <spidey> no it's a newer server
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> again, the differences aren't noticed terribly at low speeds and rubber, but move to high speeds and rubber and the differences show up
00:48 <spidey> hm
00:48 <spidey> really
00:48 <spidey> these things wasn't that bad when the server was using 2.7.1
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> it would be worthwhile if you could provide some recordings, preferably small ones.  :)
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> which server is it?
00:49 <spidey> then again it wasn't 50 rubber
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> don't tell me it's the mbc server
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah fuck, it's the mbc server
00:49 <spidey> lmao
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> your other option is to play on a server where the admin knows what the fuck he's doing :)
00:49 <spidey> heh
00:49 <spidey> i'ma start hosting a server i think
00:50 <spidey> use my old config 
00:50 <spidey> it was always full when i used those
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm hoping to find some time to bring mine back up soon.  I think I'm going to make it a simpler fortress server, couple of small teams with some obstacles and good terrain features
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> CT made a server that outdid mine for rotating maps and actually being playable, so I'm going to look into fortress variations that don't involve rotating maps :)
00:51  * spidey likes running 2.6.0
00:51 <spidey> xD
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> but I still get the award (if there is one) for having the first rotating map server :)
00:51 <spidey> hehe
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> and the second...
00:52 <spidey> grr
00:53 <spidey> i take back what i said earlier about having to get a job
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> you'll take mcdonald's now?
00:53 <spidey> fuck no
00:53  * Lucifer_arma flipped hamburgers for 4 years
00:53 <spidey> more like radio shack or walmart
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmm
00:53 <spidey> or something like that
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> around here anyway, fast food pays better than those places
00:54 <spidey> here you get minimal wadge
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> significantly better.  Heh.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> unless you get into the service center at walmart
00:54 <spidey> at fast food places
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> you know, oil changing and stuff
00:54  * spidey wants the electronics department
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> well, there's a shortage of fast food workers here and a high density of restaurants in general
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, there's no shortage of snobby teenage girls to do the other jobs
00:54 <spidey> hahaha
00:54 <spidey> you know what
00:55 <spidey> we'll ship all of ours to ya'll
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> so the people that worked at walmart and radio shack generally got $0.50->$1 less than I got at fast food
00:55 <spidey> we have a huge surplus of them
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I said there's no shortage!
00:55 <spidey> oh
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'll let you know if that changes!
00:55 <spidey> same here
00:55 <spidey> heh
00:55 <spidey> you do that
00:56 <spidey> atleast then when i do
00:56 <spidey> asking for $10-$20 every month or two won't be too much
00:56 <spidey> cause i'll have :|
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> there's gotta be some way you cna turn what you know about computers into freelance work...
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go smoke, bbiab
00:58 <spidey> i can do anything but soldier,well i can soldier but i don't trust myself that much xD
00:58 <Your_mom_arma> soldier?
00:59 <spidey> solder?
00:59 <spidey> metal wire
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> oh
00:59 <spidey> hot gun
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> soldering iron
00:59 <spidey> yea
00:59 <spidey> solder :p
01:00 <Your_mom_arma> the misspelling really threw me for a loop that time 
01:00 <spidey> hahah
01:00  * spidey has low grades in english
01:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> hey
01:01  * spidey trips z-man ON HIS WAY IN
01:01 <spidey> s-caps
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not good at soldering either, but I don't do electronics work anyway :)
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> there's an opportunity in smaller towns and less, umm, urban areas, I think, for linux in business :)
01:08 <spidey> who's gonna trust a 16 y/o with computer work?
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> whenever I'm in a small town I see either no computers, really old computers, or overpriced stuff with windows crap, and invariably I see dissatisfaction
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:08 <spidey> i mean afterall they're adults and know more :p
01:08 <spidey> but really they're fucking morons
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> it's entirely possible you're in a different world than I am.  :)  In my world, kids still fix computers because adults are too stupid to do it
01:08 <spidey> i was being sarcastic
01:09 <spidey> someone told me once
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> just think about it, if you figure something out, jump on it, eh?
01:09 <spidey> "zomg i got a virus my computer won't even turn on"
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> freelance work, imo, is the greatest, and I'm just as insubordinate-hates-authority as you, if not more so
01:09 <spidey> i'm willing to bet $30 it's the power supply
01:09 <spidey> "stfu what do yuo know
01:09 <spidey> xD
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> damn kid
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:10 <spidey> :p
01:10 <spidey> since then peoples problems are theres
01:11 <spidey> was thinking about going to ITT when i get my GED
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> "Do you want to make more money?  Of course, we all doooo."  I hate those commercials.
01:14  * Lucifer_arma isn't impressed with ITT, to be honest.
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> you might be better off getting the same traiing from a community college, but it'll take longer.  Up to you, it's your life, after all, but ITT just strikes me as another "get rich quick" scheme,
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> or at least they play on the same impulses that drives get-rich-quick schemes
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> but in the real world, I've never encountered an ITT person or a job that dealt with such applicants, so I don't know what their chances are for real
01:15 <spidey> really i don't need it,but a certifacate saying i got training in that field would be better for tat kind of job :s
01:16  * Lucifer_arma likes freelance work in part because nobody asks to see his nonexistant CS degree
01:16 <spidey> remind me
01:16 <spidey> next time i get $10 to get a keyboard and mouse that DON'T have a short
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  give them that much for free, then take $45/hour to fix their real problem :)
01:17 <spidey> no...i ment my real problem
01:17 <spidey> heh
01:18 <spidey> the mouse and keyboard have a short in the wire
01:18 <spidey> have to wiggle the wire for them to work
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> wireless is sooo cool
01:18 <spidey> heh
01:18 <spidey> then again,it might not be either of them
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> somebody tell me what my now-missing 6th systray icon was so I can restart that application
01:19 <spidey> hahah
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> I see IM, email, and IRC, and the two I generally don't look at
01:20 <spidey> i only have 2 systray icons
01:20 <spidey> network monitor and the speaker
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> speaker, that's it
01:20 <spidey> lmfao
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> it was kmix, which I don't have running all the time
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> thanks, I don't need to restart it :)
01:20 <spidey> heh
01:21 <spidey> i don't get this
01:21 <spidey> the mouse don't work
01:21 <spidey> but everytime i look at the screen the little arrow has moved 
01:21  * Lucifer_arma whistles the Twilight Zone song
01:21 <spidey> hahah
01:21 <spidey> the aliens abducted my pointer
01:21 <spidey> :s
01:22 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:23 <spidey> yay
01:23 <spidey> another documentry is done downloading
01:23 <spidey> one that was banned 
01:25 <spidey> conspiracy of silence
01:25 <spidey> congress had it banned
01:25 <spidey> shitty quality
01:26 <spidey> i want a dual core video card
01:26 <spidey> whenever they come out
02:01 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-195-208.pskn.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
02:08 <guru3> fun fun work time
02:14 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: did you branch for 0.3.0? I don't know how long the Windows repais will take. I don't want to rush them.
02:15 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I fixed the GetUserName() problem the right way for both cross compilation and native compilation; <windows.h> is now included in defs.h, which every file we have includes first. That way, the #define GetUserName GetUserNameA is active everywhere.
02:32 -!- Weng [i=Weng@59-126-35-18.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #armagetron
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02:35 <Lucifer_arma> no, I haven't branched yet, doing calc homework :(
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> test this weekend
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> also, my kubuntu partition blew up on me :(
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: ping :)
02:36 <z-man> ok
02:37 <z-man> Plan? Shall I slowly try to get the Windows build working properly? It seems some things should rather be done on "make dist" than in the zip source preparation.
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, hmmmmmm
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> it seems like maybe we're not ready to release 0.3.0 after all :)
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> besides me, do you have any idea how many other people might be waiting for 0.3.0 before tearing up the trunk some more?
02:47 <Luke-Jr> you know, we could just go back and branch before the windows changes started...
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> there's an interesting idea
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's the cia url again?  I lost it in my browser history when my Kubuntu partition blew up...
02:47 <Luke-Jr> aabeta has a link
02:48 <Luke-Jr> ViewVC makes it easy
02:49 <z-man> Problem is, the Windows build wasn't working properly before Joda's rearrangements either.
02:49 <z-man> The nsis install scripts ignored the new sound stuff and the font.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  I'm seeing some fairly important stuff afterwards that we really should catch anyway
02:50 <z-man> I think I almost have the version.h file joda generates from SVN reproduced
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> 3 choices.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> branch so people can tear up the trunk again
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> not branch and keep going as we are, try to get windows building by the end of the week or early next week, even late next week
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> hold off 0.3.0
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> my gut tells me the best choice is the third one, hold off 0.3.0 a couple more weeks
02:52 <z-man> What has that for implications for people tearing up the trunk?
02:52 <z-man> Should they be allowed to do it then?
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure anybody's waiting to tear up the trunk anyway, and the windows build keeps being "it'll be ready in a few hours", and I think that's going to keep going
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, of course.  if we hold off 0.3.0, tear it up again.
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> That's contingent on my suspicion that nobody besides me is waiting to do that thing, and I've got this test so I'm not going to tear it up anyway in the next week or so
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> what do you guys think?
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a little voice in my head saying we shoudl get the cross-compiler thing going pretty quickly.  We have a severe shortage of regular windows developers, and cross-compiling is the thing that lets some of us update the windows build without having windows
02:54 <z-man> I've got lots of pending merges from 0.2.8 that are a tiny bit dangerous
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> what's the worst case they might impact the trunk?
02:55 <z-man> Hard to say. They're on permanent test on Fortress, so I don't expect desasters...
02:55 <z-man> but you guys have mainly been messing with graphics and sound, not the core game code.
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> so worst case is we get weird behavior/random crashes for a few weeks while you track it down?
02:56 <z-man> So whatever you do, you didn't break the game. The merged changed could do that.
02:56 <z-man> Yes, that kind of stuff.
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> ok, if we hold off 0.3.0, then that sounds pretty acceptable :)
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> assuming that really is the worst case...
02:57  * Lucifer_arma wonders how he can put together a Riemann Sum to determine the worst case
02:57 <z-man> Yeah, the real worst case can always be worse than the imagined worst case
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> ok, 4th choice
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> :)
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> branch anyway with the current revision and work out the windows thing there
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> then you can tear up the trunk with your merge from 0.2.8, and if it breaks it, fine, we release from the branch
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> if not, even better, we release from the trunk :)
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> maybe that's just crazy talk, though
02:59 <z-man> No, sounds good.
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok, let's do that then.  I'll do the branch tomorrow afternoon my time, It's pretty late and I still need to do a couple more problems before I go to bed
03:00 <z-man> Just let me commit what I think is a reasonably good shot at fixing the Windows build to the trunk ;)
03:00 <z-man> Ok
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> and if your reasonably good shot at fixing windows works, you know what to do :)
03:01 <z-man> Yes, I'll simply push the build up to aabeta.
03:02 <z-man> It'll still be tagged _alphasomething
03:02 <Lucifer_arma> do we have a flare gun or something we can use to get the QA guys' attention?
03:02 <z-man> We can tag and do a proper release later.
03:02 <z-man> Post on the forum?
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking more like a very large megaphone
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I've got a minor calc question that's curiosity more than anything, if you've got a minute for it
03:04 <z-man> of course
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> so, volume of a cone, right?  In class we derived the formula we all know and love by chopping it up into circles, from the side
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> I was wondering if there's a method that works from the top, where you chop it into triangles, and then rotate the triangles
03:06 <z-man> A cone with circular base?
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> yes
03:06 <z-man> and it's top is pointing to the side?
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, maybe I'd need to see your drawing?  What we did in class,
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> you point it any way you want, but we looked at it from the side and chopped into rectangles, from the side they were rectangles
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> so the volume of a cylinder, stick it in a Riemann Sum, then make your integral from that
03:08 <z-man> Ah, ok, now I understand your "from the side"
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> so the tip points up/down/left/right
03:08 <z-man> The cut planes are parallel to the ground circle.
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> so I was wanting to make triangles instead, and then you look from the top
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, that's what we did in class.  :)
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> but if you do it from the top, you basically do the solid of revolution trick with the triangles and rotate half a twist to get the whole cone
03:09 <z-man> If your chop planes are parallel (all perpendicular to the ground circle), your cuts will be parabulas, not triangles.
03:10 <z-man> Ah, ok, so your chop planes all go through the center axis of the cone?
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, instead of stacking them side by side.  Ahh, that's the part, don't stack side by side
03:10 <z-man> That works.
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's it
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> so is that a useful tactic?
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, I have this thing about using trig.  :)  Even if it's just area of a triangle...
03:11 <z-man> Depends :) The small bodies you chop it up to aren't flat triangles, so their volume is as hard co calculate as that of the whole cone.
03:12 <z-man> They're thicker on the outside, so those parts get a bigger weight in the volume.
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, we've been ignoring that, because when you put it together as an integral, their thickness goes to 0
03:13 <z-man> That only works as long as the thickness is uniform.
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> at least, when you're just stacking bits next to each other it works that way
03:13 <z-man> It works for the slicing to circles, because they're parallel, but not for your triangles.
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I think I get it.  Thanks.  :)
03:16 <z-man> You're welcome
03:28 <z-man> Got a working build!
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> yippeee!
03:28 <z-man> Upload to aabeta is running.
03:32 <z-man> Can take a while, the installer is now 5 MB big...
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  wht's in it?
03:32 <z-man> Music?
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better check sizes for that stuff, I thought I was only coming in around 700k for all of it
03:33 <z-man> FTGL and FreeType take the other MB.
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> oh, aha.
03:33 <z-man> The whole music directory is 1.8 MB
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's quite a bit more than 700k :)
03:34 <z-man> An unused file?
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> two of the 4 files are currently unused, actually
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> fortresswalk.ogg and doiknowyou.ogg
03:35 <z-man> But we're going to tell people how to add them to their playlist, right?
03:35 <z-man> So the space is not totally wasted?
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> of course.  :)  Except that the songs aren't really worth listening to in the playlist as implemented
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> they're intended to be looped, and the playlist doesn't handle looping songs right now is the problem
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> Making post-install adaptions.
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> Found shared files with other packages:
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/group: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/gshadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/passwd: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/shadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's the exact error the t2 package is having
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> --disable-sysinstall is in configure, I think
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I need to move towards bed, just thought I'd toss that at you
03:39 <z-man> Yeah, so I can torture my head thinking about what may go wrong while you sleep, that fits ;)
03:41 <z-man> Good night, I'm off too.
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06:10 <wrtlprnft> #echo [morning][uptime]
06:10 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune:  Hear about the young Chinese woman who just won the lottery? || One fortunate cookie... spidey: 13:10:43 up 52 days, 13:15, 4 users, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
06:11 <spidey>  07:11:38 up 13 days, 14:27,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
06:11 <wrtlprnft> :P
06:18 <wrtlprnft> guru3: BUG! try answering to z-man's "different turn delays for 180s and adjusts" thread, it complains your topic is too long
06:21  * spidey yawns
06:25 <wrtlprnft> uh, BF fortress is empty?
06:25 <wrtlprnft> looks like people don't like my test :(
06:25 <spidey> ?
06:26 <spidey> which test
06:27 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4571
06:27 <spidey> i can't click that.....
06:27 <wrtlprnft> woooooo! google earth is available for linux!
06:27 <wrtlprnft> spidey: test servers forum
06:28 <wrtlprnft> the topmost thread there
06:28 <spidey> i still can't click it
06:28 <wrtlprnft> you can go onto the armagetronad forums, right?
06:28 <wrtlprnft> what about copy and paste anyways? That's what i do
06:28 <spidey> if i could figure out how to open the menu yea
06:29 <wrtlprnft> ?
06:29 <spidey> i don't have a mouse dude.....
06:29 <wrtlprnft> screen!
06:29 <wrtlprnft> use screen and irssi
06:29 <spidey> -_-
06:29 <wrtlprnft> and don't tell me you can't use your browser without a mouse
06:29  * wrtlprnft never uses the mouse for browsing
06:30 <spidey> i can't open it without one.....
06:30 <spidey> cause i don't know how to open the kmenu
06:30 <wrtlprnft> windoze key?
06:30 <spidey> don't wrk
06:30 <spidey> work
06:30 <wrtlprnft> konqueror on the command line?
06:30 <spidey> ..........
06:31 <spidey> i can't open the menu to get to the terminal
06:31 <wrtlprnft> or use opera, it has excellent keyboard navigation
06:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, CTRL-ALT-F1?
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06:34 <spider__> thanks....
06:35 <wrtlprnft> ?
06:35 <spider__> that closed X now my keyboard don't work
06:35 <wrtlprnft> ?!
06:35 <wrtlprnft> how are you typing?
06:35 <spider__> windows
06:35 <wrtlprnft> oh
06:35 <spider__> EXEC	The system cannot find the file specified.
06:36 <spider__> EXEC	The system cannot find the file specified.
06:36 <spider__> hmm
06:36 <wrtlprnft> ????
06:36 <spider__> growl
06:36 <spider__> :<
06:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, alt-f7 doesn't work?
06:36 <spider__> i don't know,i can't start x again :|
06:36 <wrtlprnft> do you have an ssh server on that machine?
06:36 <spider__> yea
06:37 <wrtlprnft> and the reboot button is your friend
06:37 <wrtlprnft> then connect to that
06:37 <spider__> :|
06:38 <spider__> spidey@3[~]$ uptime
06:38 <spider__>  07:38:41 up 13 days, 14:54,  2 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.10, 0.03
06:38 <wrtlprnft> well, there
06:38 <wrtlprnft> you go
06:38 <wrtlprnft> restart x11
06:38 <wrtlprnft> and to start a grapthical program:
06:38 <wrtlprnft> export DISPLAY=:0
06:38 <wrtlprnft> xterm
--- Log opened Tue Jun 13 06:42:13 2006
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06:42 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 17 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
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06:42 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
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06:45 <Joni> Hi
06:47 <wrtlprnft_> grr, google earth crashed on me
06:48 <spidey> good! :(
06:48 <spidey>  06:48:13 up 5 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.04, 0.36, 0.22
06:49 <wrtlprnft_> #uptime
06:49 <armabot> spidey: 13:48:58 up 52 days, 13:54, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
06:49 <wrtlprnft_> that's another machine :P
06:49 <spidey> ::<
06:50 <spidey> yes that smiley wears glasses
06:50 <wrtlprnft_> 8-)
06:52 <wrtlprnft_> !BF fortress is still empty!
06:52  * spidey is going back to bed for 3 hours
06:53 <Joni> lol
06:54 <spidey> i gotta go test on this book for the third damn time :|
06:54 <spidey> yes that means i failed it twice
06:54 <spidey> before that i only fail one test,but i retook it and made a 98
06:55 <spidey> i've never failed a test twice in a row :/
06:55 <spidey> anywho cya in 3 hours,then in 2-4 hours
06:55 <spidey> bbl
06:55 <Joni> cyaz
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09:31 <spidey> 4
09:46 -!- dlh```_ [n=dlh```@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
09:53 -!- z-man [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has joined #armagetron
09:54 <z-man> #later tell guru3 the download links on the website still point to, any chance of getting them updated some time?
09:54 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
09:58 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["leaving"]
09:58 <spidey> i love you
09:59 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
09:59 <spidey> but i love vanhayes more
10:00 <Vanhayes> more than what?
10:01 <spidey> more than z-man
10:01 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
10:01 <Vanhayes> Should I be flattered, or creeped out?
10:01 <spidey> dunno?
10:02 -!- dlh``` [n=dlh```@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:06 <Vanhayes> I'll be creeped out
10:09 <spidey> gay
10:47 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-197-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
10:47 <madmax|pt> hello
10:47 <Vanhayes> hey max
10:48  * madmax|pt really loves the cries of double/triple binders
10:49 <madmax|pt> :D
10:52  * spidey really likes killing zop when he double binds
10:55 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:56 <madmax|pt> hehe
10:58  * madmax|pt is away: brb
11:14  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:16:08)
11:44 <cusco> olha um madmax
12:04 <madmax|pt> ...
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12:20 <madmax|pt> any1 here ran the OSX binary of .3 successfully?
12:37 <Luke-Jr> *what* .3?
12:38 <joda_bot> madmax|pt: no I did not try
12:40 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: I guess he's talking about the alpha development build
12:41 <Luke-Jr> aha, need to unfilter branch
12:43 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
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12:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you do know k is working on an automated daily Win build?
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> yes
12:57 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: got any contact from k ?
13:01 <madmax|pt> sorry, yes, the alpha development build
13:01 <dlh```> madmax|pt: I did :D
13:02 <madmax|pt> crap
13:02 <madmax|pt> my doesnt run
13:02 <madmax|pt> *mine
13:02 <dlh```> Except I built it. I'm rebuilding. Hang around so you can test it.
13:02 <madmax|pt> (its hard to keep track of typos on 2 different languages)
13:02 <madmax|pt> ok dlh
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: k chimed in in the 0.3 thread, anyway, to talk about the windows build.  He's still getting up to speed.
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> Methinks K will always be "getting up to speed"  :)
13:24 <Luke-Jr> maybe the new code resulted in a defective light cycle for him?
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, if that's a joke, I don't get it, Luke-Jr, sorry.  If it's not, I don't get the context either.  Of course, I just got here anyway.
13:33 <dlh```> madmax|pt: http://generalconsumption.org/armagetron/builds/Armagetron Advanced.zip
13:37 <madmax|pt> i'll try it
13:37 <spidey> HOMIES
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> what up dog?
13:38 <madmax|pt> it works :D
13:39 <madmax|pt> thanks dlh```
13:39 <dlh```> alright, good
13:39 <spidey> i finally passed that test
13:39 <spidey> my score is what's up xD
13:39 <spidey> but i don't understand how i got a half point
13:39 <spidey> i made a 94.5
13:39 <spidey> nothing on that test was worth a half point....
13:40 <dlh```> You should ask the teacher to just give you a 94 then.
13:40 <spidey> lol
13:41 <spidey> hey by the grade scale they use
13:41 <spidey> a 94 is a A-
13:46 <madmax|pt> test of what?
13:47 <Vanhayes> exams spidey?
13:48 <spidey> i don't have exams
13:48 <spidey> i'm homeschooled
13:48 <spidey> it was a spelling/litature test
13:49 <spidey> they call it word building
13:51 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
13:51 <Niii> hey
13:52 <madmax|pt> hello
13:52 <spidey> wasps don't like axe
13:53 <dlh```> madmax|pt: be sure you don't turn on sound. The game will probably crash if you do.
13:53 <spidey> i sprayed it and it flew off
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> any idea why sdl_mixer is so unstable on OS X?
13:53 <spidey> mac sucks?
13:53 <madmax|pt> lol
13:54 <dlh```> One bug is in a library they use. It is easily fixed.
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> smpeg?
13:54 <dlh```> No, trin.. something
13:54  * Lucifer_arma really hopes its smpeg
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> what's it used for?
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> wait, timidity?
13:54 <dlh```> Timidity
13:54 <dlh```> yea
13:54 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
13:55 <madmax|pt> hey G5
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> any objections to me using that as an excuse not to support midi?  ;)
13:55 <madmax|pt> dlh, the link is still working?
13:55 <dlh```> Use beta.armagetronad.net
13:55 <dlh```> it is there now
13:55 <madmax|pt> oh ok
13:55 <madmax|pt> its for G5...
13:56 <spidey> people think i'm too old for star wars :(
13:56 <G5_Ger> Is it a new release?
13:56 <dlh```> yes, it should work now.
13:56 <dlh```> still the same problem with sound...
13:56 <G5_Ger> Ok, dl/ing
13:57 <G5_Ger> 25 kb/s ... is it my isp?
13:58 <madmax|pt> was slow for me too
13:58 <madmax|pt> btw, by turning on sound you mean: SysSetup > Sound Settings > Sound Quality: Off/Low-Medium-High ?
13:59 <dlh```> Yes, just turn down all those... we don't have a logical "Sound on/off" setting.
13:59 <G5_Ger> Did anyone see a G5's liquid cooling system leak? It was on the news today ... I'm worried ...
13:59 <madmax|pt> i never used sound in tron though
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> dlh```: there's a define for disabling even compiling sound, it works in Linux anyway
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> or did before I started shuffling things around again
14:00 <madmax|pt> but if i put it to other than Off in there, it doesnt crash
14:00 <madmax|pt> at least for now...
14:00 <dlh```> it will crash on startup
14:01 <madmax|pt> oh
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> that config item is only evaluated once during startup, the old behavior where you could change the setting and have it go into effect right away is gone for now
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> but it'll return :)
14:02 <G5_Ger> Ok, 0.3 running (with sound)
14:03 <G5_Ger> Ok, only startup sound
14:04 <dlh```> I disabled loading the sound files because it took forever on my computer.
14:06 <madmax|pt> the text system is much better, i can now have nicks like "I AM MAD?"
14:06 <madmax|pt> the "?" didnt appear right
14:06 <madmax|pt> hehe
14:08 <spidey> hhahaha
14:08 <spidey> this new experiment is kinda cool
14:09 <G5_Ger> The little map is upside down ...
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> what, the origin on the map is in the upper-left now?
14:09 <spidey> no
14:09 <spidey> you can't double grind now
14:09 <spidey> no matter what
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> yay!
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> that can only be good!
14:10 <spidey> quick binds have a delay
14:10 <spidey> o if you doublebind back
14:10 <spidey> you just turn once
14:10 <G5_Ger> I was gold and gold fortress was on top. I would have excepted it to be on bottom
14:10 <dlh```> It would be nice if the map was orientated with your driving direction.
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, the map's not upside down, you just got spawned at the top zone  :)
14:11 <G5_Ger> i see
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I looked into zooming the map and having it fix on your position, but didn't actually do any coding on it
14:11 <G5_Ger> did u do something to input handling? feels a lot better and faster.
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> it looks like we can use glOrtho to limit the view so we don't have to deal with cutting off the lines at the edge
14:12 <spidey> wait
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> then zooming is just a matter of working in a zoom factor somehow
14:12 <spidey> you can still doublegrind
14:12 <spidey> just use singlebind
14:12 <spidey> real fast
14:12 <spidey> i just did it
14:12 <Vanhayes> `thats how most people do it
14:13 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, spidey just figured out the cycle_delay code was for doublebinders
14:13 <madmax|pt> the 1st times i doublegrinded i did it with singlebind...
14:13 <spidey> heh
14:13 <spidey> i use doublebinds
14:13 <spidey> unless i wanna cut deapers
14:13 <spidey> deeper*
14:13 <dlh```> armagetronad://
14:14 <dlh```> that doesn't work on windows yet, right?
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> not that I know of
14:14 <G5_Ger> Cool
14:15 <spidey> i don't really care if people doublegrind,unless it's zop
14:15 <spidey> then i kill him
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and in linux it only works in KDE if you're lucky :)
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I don't mind doublegrinders, generally speaking.  It's when they get pissy about how they're going to do it and fuck the rest of the team no matter what,
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and then get pissy about how I should do it
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and since that's most of the time, it's annoying as hell
14:16 <spidey> yes
14:16 <spidey> zop did that to me
14:16 <G5_Ger> what is this red/green bar in the right middle?
14:16 <spidey> so now i kill him
14:16 <Vanhayes> that isnt thbrakes g5?
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> brake, isn't it?
14:17 <G5_Ger> No, brakes on the bottom ...
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> there are a few doublegrinders I always kill, and a few I always let live
14:17 <dlh```> the upper-right, you mean?
14:17 <Vanhayes> FPS
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> that would be fps, wouldn't it?
14:17 <G5_Ger> yeah ... more vertical center (right)
14:18 <G5_Ger> ok
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> you're using the default cockpit, right?
14:18 <Vanhayes> So the glances turnleft, then left again, then left again if u press them fast enough?
14:18 <G5_Ger> yes
14:18 <Vanhayes> it gets confusing
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> try this:
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: yes, and they're relative to your view
14:18 <G5_Ger> i just clicked the link 
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> make sure you bind a glance front, it centers the view to your cycle's front
14:19 <G5_Ger> i just clicked your link while i was in bugfarm ... then the new world was fucked up ...
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> also, if you know after you turn that you want to be looking in the direction you were going before the turn, press glance front before you turn and hold it :)
14:19 <dlh```> G5_Ger: yea, it gets messed up when you use the armagetronad:// links and are already playing the game
14:20 <spidey> yea
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> I've also found I don't glance back anymore, I just glance left twice
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> it grows on you :)
14:21 <dlh```> I've been using it for awhile, and I still prefer the old custom camera
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> I like the input handling for it, but I'd like to see camera defined by a resource anyway
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> and the resource format would include the primitives that make up both the old kind and the new kind, and whatever else came out of rewriting it to work that way
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> but then you'd define which camera resource to use for which slot, and the existing camera views would become slots, and maybe we'd add a couple more that make sense to add
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> if I ran the zoo, that's just what I'd do :)
14:26 -!- Nixda710 [n=593444cf@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:27 <G5_Ger> I miss the sound :)
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14:27 <Lucifer_arma> anybody try my cockpit yet?  ;)
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> also, try incam, the new default cockpit has a different layout for incam
14:29 <madmax|pt> incam is nice
14:29  * Lucifer_arma should put this "try this out" on the wiki
14:30 <madmax|pt> in console? -> COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> yes
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> it *should* load, but you may need to restart it
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> cockpit_file gets saved like you'd expect
14:32 <madmax|pt> it gets in the sight
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> you'd have to try it for awhile, it does occasionally block the view, but I find that on the whole it's better, at least for me
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> because I don't have to move my eyes very far to see it, and I can ignore it when I don't want to see it
14:32 <madmax|pt> its the new from the incam too right?
14:32 <madmax|pt> * the one
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> I admit, it makes more sense as an incam cockpit
14:33 <G5_Ger> ur cockpit isnt that sick ...
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> umm, the incam cockpit is derived from my personal cockpit
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> I added the gauges people expect, and captions
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's stuff I don't like wasting my own screen space on, but people expect it to be there
14:33 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:33 <Vanhayes> what are the meters on the right?
14:34  * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man-home 
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> the top one is speed, bottom is accelration
14:34 <madmax|pt> sooooo... whats the default one then...
14:34 <madmax|pt> so i can load it back
14:34 <madmax|pt> lol
14:34  * z-man-home is watching brazil vs croatia
14:34 <z-man-home> (quite boring up to now)
14:35 <[Xpert]DarkStar> anyone watched switzerland vs france?
14:35 <MaZuffeR> yes
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> was it interesting?
14:36 <MaZuffeR> the first half was quite boring, a bit better in the second half
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hmm
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml  <-- something like this?
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good that i haven't watched it then
14:37 <MaZuffeR> Frei tried to score with his hand
14:37 <madmax|pt> yeah, i was looking in the folders
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_: default cockpit file isn't in default.cfg!
14:37 <madmax|pt> looks like theres the classic one there
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> see?  we already found one bug :)
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> ok, the one I gave is the default
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the classic one is supposed to be the same as the old one, I don't know if it ctually is or not, but it should give the old hud back
14:39 <madmax|pt> it does
14:39 <madmax|pt> i tried it
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the standard one is the one we'll be developing incrementally to be the best freaking default cockpit we can put together
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the difference between standard and classic is that standard can change between releases.  :)  Classic is for the people who don't like change.
14:40 <madmax|pt> yep
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> personally I've grown quite attached to my cockpit, and with a few changes to the map I might finally be able to switch to incam as my primary camera :)
14:42 <Vanhayes> hmm what happened to the HUD option that was in system set-up, is it gone or can I just not find it?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> probably gone for now, we're still trying to figure out how to make hud options like what you used to see
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> the hud is totally different under the hood now
14:43 <madmax|pt> did you guys ever thought of name highlighting in the chat? like when people say our name it makes some tag or changes the text colour
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't mind slinging some xml, here's all about the cockpit:
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Cockpit_Tutorial
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> madmax|pt: I've thouht about it, but most of the neato chat stuff we're getting is from nemo and wrtlprnft
14:45 <madmax|pt> ok
14:45 <madmax|pt> but that would be useful sometimes :)
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> many times :)
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> can't be that hard, just do a substring in the same place where we place the *DEAD* string, search for your name, and if it's there, change the color of the line
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> I'd also like the option to strip colors from other people's chats.  When people go and start talking in green or light blue as their colors, I have a hard time seeing it, so tend to ignore them
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> but it would be neat if we could work out a way to make that work, and then have people's cycle colors figured into the color of their chats
14:49 <madmax|pt> i agree on the "strip colors from other people's chats"
14:49 <madmax|pt> i find that quite useful in MSN
14:49 <madmax|pt> there are people with some strange colors... and fonts
14:51 <madmax|pt> btw, the colour in our nick that we define in player setup isnt supposed to be the same as in the score board?
14:52 <G5_Ger> Does 0.3 version have no sound or is it a problem with the Mac version?
14:52 <Vanhayes> Windows has sound, but it is very annoying
14:54 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> problem with the mac version
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> also, the cycle sound is on vacation
14:55 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
14:55 <MaZuffeR> the cycle sound is pretty much the only useful one imho
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> we'll get it back, don't worry.  There's a new zone spawn sound, though, that I haen't heard in a while because I play with music
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> and the announcer's annoying without music, but I can deal with him with music :)
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> but that damn whistle is getting annoying.  I don't know what possessed me to use a whistle for "Go!"
14:57 <madmax|pt> any1 read my question?
14:57 <madmax|pt> lol
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I read it, I'm not sure if I know the answer though
14:57 <madmax|pt> ok then
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> I think the answer is "no", the color in the scoreboard is supposed to be the color of your cycle, which is different in teams, of course
14:58 <madmax|pt> hmm, the colour of my cycle isnt the one in the scoreboard, im in spec mode @ bugFort
14:58 <Lucifer_arma> also, I don't know if we'll change the music under the GUI, people that have used it so far have liked it, but the music the game starts with is just trash I threw together to have something to test the code with
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> being in spec mode might change that, too.  You don't have a cycle when you're a spectator, do you?
15:01 <madmax|pt> well, but the color in the scoreboard is neither the cycle or the one i defined with color codes in the name
15:02 <madmax|pt> dinner time
15:02 <madmax|pt> bbl
15:02  * madmax|pt is away: Dinner
15:19  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:17:03)
15:21 <madmax|pt> color = american english / colour = british english , right?
15:21 <G5_Ger> yep
15:22 <G5_Ger> it is hard for me to play without game sounds ...
15:22 <madmax|pt> o_O
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's right madmax|pt 
15:23 <G5_Ger> Im used to hear other players drive and die
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is a development release we're working on.  If you need the stuff that's in the stable release badly, you should run that instead.  :)
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> Running the development release implies a certain acceptance on your part that things won't always be wonderful.
15:23 <madmax|pt> you use the sound to know if people died?
15:23 <G5_Ger> No, this is no complaint. Im happy with 0.3
15:24 <G5_Ger> Yes. It helps (me)
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I used to do that, so I can relate, but I really watch for names in the console now because I track living cycles the same way I count cards in Spades :)
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the new sound engine when it's finished will have either the same old stereo sound it's always had, multichannel sound with sdl_mixer (probably disabled for you), or full 3d sound with OpenAL.
15:25 <madmax|pt> i never used sound, so i'm a quite intrigued on how people "use" it
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'm rearranging the sound stuff to make each of those options both compile-time options and runtime config options,
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B81BE.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> so we could release a binary with all three compiled in and let the user pick which one to use.
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that we will release such a binary, we need to provide a stable target for people that make music and sound effects, I'd just like to have the option available.
15:26 <G5_Ger> Sounds great. Im looking forward to see the result. Thx for all your time.
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> the compile-time config is to reduce the dependency load to a tolerable level for people building from source.  :)  so they can pick how many dependencies they'll tolerate for sound, if any.
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BB425.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> you'll love full 3d sound.  :)  OpenAL supports doppler-shifting sounds, so when you speed past a cycle you'll hear the doppler effect on it.
15:44 <spidey> meh
15:44 <spidey> changed my monitors/keyboards around
15:44 <spidey> i'ma start playing tron on this computer
15:45 <[NP]Tangent> whoa
15:45 <[NP]Tangent> you're making full 3d sound?
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> eventually, yes
15:49 <[NP]Tangent> sweet
15:50 <spidey> llucifer
15:50  * [NP]Tangent puts Buy 6.1 speakers on this year's todo list
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> but you'll have to be patient.  :)  There are so many steps along the way to an OpenAL sound backend...
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I've alredy made two attempts and found the amount of work to be quite intimidating.  So I've reworked my plan into more baby steps.
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> I'll be patient
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> :>
15:50  * MaZuffeR already has 5.1 speakers
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> slow but steady wins the race
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> We're stuck with SDL and SDL_mixer for awhile, but you should see enough improvement there to satisfy you :)
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> I have 2.1 speakers
15:51  * spidey has a stereo :>
15:51  * Lucifer_arma uses headphones
15:51 <spidey> that plays what the computer does :>
15:51 <[NP]Tangent> I usually use headphones though
15:51 <[NP]Tangent> I want some surround sound though
15:51 <spidey> i don't,i get introuble cause it's too loud xD
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> there's some surround sound in the new version, but I forgot the config item for it.
15:52 <spidey> derrrr
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> When the alpha's done with QA, or next week, whichever happens first, I'll write up the changes in 0.3.0 on the wiki with a list of try-mes :)
15:52 <spidey> hmm,lots of people must be downloading tron,i'm getting 11kb/s :s
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> but the surround sound in the new version isn't full 3d sound
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's just fake 3d sound.   sounds happen approximately where they should happen and that's it.  Some amplitude, but that's it.
15:53  * Lucifer_arma thinks the config item for that is in the sound menu
15:53  * spidey doesn't use sound in tron anyways :p
15:53  * madmax|pt hates blood sucking, annoying, not-that-funny looking bugs
15:53 <spidey> even if i did,the music would drown it out :/
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, my music drowns it out.  It's part of my goal that that shouldn't happen, though.
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> if you use the music that's available in-game, that is.  If you use your own cd player or whatever, it's your problem.  :)
15:54 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:54 <spidey> hmm
15:54 <spidey> well
15:54 <spidey> nvm,lol
15:55 <Vanhayes> what is the point of toggle brake?
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> so you can be a wuss without anyone knowing?
15:55 <MaZuffeR> might be useful on speedbrakes servers
15:55  * Lucifer_arma hasn't bound that one
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, actually I bound brake to caps lock awhile back for race servers :)
15:56 <spidey> luci,should i download/install support code ?
15:56 <Vanhayes> but all it does is completely use brakes but doesnt refill
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: you have to to use autopackage
15:56 <spidey> i am
15:56 <spidey> it's asking if i should do it now
15:56 <spidey> Y/n
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: if you say "no", it shouldn't install :)
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> so say "yes" :)
15:56 <spidey> k
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, some servers don't have brakes used up anyway.  Did you play iF's race server?
15:57 <Vanhayes> I have yes
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> that was "hold the brake down all the time", which interfered with glances for me
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> so when I bound brake to caps lock, I could just toggle it once and have constant acceleration.
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's all the benefit I see to toggle brakes, anyway
15:57 <Vanhayes> but shouldnt it refill after it is depleted?
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> there are some maps on CT Fortress where it would be useful, the shrunk maps
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> some servers don't deplete, that's my point
15:58 <spidey> k,i can't see this when i'm playing now :/ bbl
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's useful if you want brake as soon as it refills, like for tight mazing (and you're a wuss)
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's useful when brakes don't deplete (and you're a wuss)
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> and it's useful when you need constant acceleration, like in a maze server (and you're not a wuss)
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> it might be useful in other situations too, that I haven't thought of.  I don't know, I didn't do it.  :)
15:59 <madmax|pt> sometimes chat overlaps the "time/framerate/Running For/Music" part of the HUD
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> always has, it's just that before that hud gauge was really small
16:00 <madmax|pt> hmm...
16:00 <madmax|pt> ok
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> you can setup a toggle for it, I suppose we should figure out toggles for the default gauges so you can turn them off
16:00 <Vanhayes> all of that doesnt even fit on my screen
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> umm, don't play so long?  ;)
16:00  * Lucifer_arma is aware of the problems with that particular gauge, but it's not a showstopper
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> think about it as an incentive to try making your own cockpit :)
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> see, dont look at the cockpit as "oh looky, we got new gauges".  Look at it as "oh looky, I can make it look however I want it to"
16:01 <Vanhayes> I mean all I see is time/fps/timesta and then it goes off my screem
16:01 <Vanhayes> screen*
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> wrtl has a cockpit in there too you can try if you want
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> do you have an aspect ratio that's not 4:3?
16:02  * madmax|pt now understands what "Keep Window Active" means
16:02 <G5_Ger> 24h clock is gone ...
16:03 <madmax|pt> its the american style
16:03 <madmax|pt> lol
16:03 <Vanhayes> I like it better now
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah
16:05 <madmax|pt> i like the text a lot, in the other versions it was all "blurry"
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> there's also /console in chat
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the change to truetype fonts :)
16:05 <madmax|pt> really cool
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think the font is fucking beautiful now :)
16:05 <madmax|pt> i agree on that!
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you can do "/console COCKPIT_FILE somefilepath" in chat and it'll do what youe xpect
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> this was somebody's request, I forgot who (might have been you, madmax|pt ), who wanted to have console comands in instant chats
16:06 <madmax|pt> not me
16:06 <Vanhayes> wow wrtl's HUD is .... big
16:06 <spidey> luci,which version is it with the minimap?
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> I forget, maybe it was gnorty, heh.  It was just one of those "Oh, that would be neat"
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: ?
16:07 <G5_Ger> g2g ... have a nice day!
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> you want 0.3.0_alphasomethingorother if you want the map
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> by G5_Ger, thanks for playing :)
16:07 <madmax|pt> my "that would be neat" is the name highlighting
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_: :)
16:07 <G5_Ger> my pleasure!
16:07 <G5_Ger> Bye!
16:07 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:07 <Vanhayes> cya
16:08 <spidey> mmm
16:08 <spidey> i get better fps on this computer
16:08 <madmax|pt> Van, is it worth to see? the cockpit?
16:08 <madmax|pt> lol
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_ has some toggles for his hud, too, so you might try binding the hud togles and see what they do
16:09 <spidey> what's the walls client?
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> very old version?
16:09 <spidey> heh
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, the game was called walls a loooong time ago
16:09 <madmax|pt> jeez, cant change my color on the score table....
16:09  * Lucifer_arma hasn't noticed a problem with colors on the score table
16:10 <spidey> branch .3?
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> I've noticed that spectators seem to hae an arbitrary color, but assumed it was to make them stand out from real players
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, 0.3.0_alphaSOMENUMBER
16:10  * spidey don't see that
16:10 <spidey> just a .3 branch,so i'll assume that's it :p
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> are you on sourceforge, or beta.armagetronad.net?
16:11 <spidey> beta.arma
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the branch you want
16:11 <spidey> k,downloading
16:12 <Vanhayes> madmax | pt the cockpit is alright, just bigg
16:14  * Lucifer_arma notes that you could use /console to replace glances and use a custom cam if you wanted
16:14  * spidey likes the num pad glances
16:14 <spidey> 4 and 5
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> which ones are they?  ;)
16:14 <spidey> though they spin to fast,but i've gotten used to it
16:15 <Vanhayes> not fast in 0.3 i bet
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> you can change that, too.  Type "angular" into your console to see the setting
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know the units on angular velocity for the cam, I'd expect it to be radians/sec
16:17 <spidey> now i go play :)
16:18 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:23 <madmax|pt> the colors seem to work on the Sumo server, but not on Fortress
16:24  * madmax|pt gives up on that
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> colors?
16:25 <madmax|pt> colors in the score table
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> Vanhayes: go to global keyboard setup and bind cockpit key 1+2
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> and try them with my cockpit ;)
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> madmax|pt: what exactly is wrong? They don't appear at all?
16:26 <madmax|pt> the same appears all the time
16:26 <wrtlprnft_> screenshot?
16:26 <madmax|pt> im changing those with color codes in the player name
16:26 <wrtlprnft_> o_O I never tested that
16:27 <wrtlprnft_> you mean like wrt0xff0000l?
16:27 <wrtlprnft_> testing...
16:27 <madmax|pt> how are you *supposed* to change colors on your nick in the score table?
16:27 <madmax|pt> when in spec mode @ fortress
16:28 <wrtlprnft_> that might be a server bug tho
16:28 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:28 <wrtlprnft> you sure it only happens with the dev version?
16:28 <wrtlprnft> btw, try /console FONT_FILE font.ttf :)
16:29 <madmax|pt> not sure
16:29 <madmax|pt> wait
16:30 <madmax|pt> it happens on the other one too
16:30 <wrtlprnft> there you go
16:30 <madmax|pt> but how are you *supposed* to change colors on your nick in the score table?
16:30 <wrtlprnft> that should be your normal colors
16:30 <wrtlprnft> like, color_r_1 etc
16:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: that might be a bug for you
16:31 <madmax|pt> nope, i have no colors defined in the nick, but when i join i have a white background and blue normal color
16:32 <madmax|pt> that white back always appears
16:32 <wrtlprnft> hmm, weird
16:32 <wrtlprnft> maybe you're not supposed to change your colors?
16:32 <MaZuffeR> starting the game with internal cam and then switching to another cam causes you to have two cockpits on top of eachother :s
16:33 <madmax|pt> in the sumo server, the white background when i have no colors defined, but if i define one in the nick with codes it appears the code i defined
16:33 <madmax|pt> in fortress it always appears
16:35 <madmax|pt> ..hmmm... did you understand that?
16:35 <madmax|pt> lol
16:35 <MaZuffeR> colors codes in nicks are disable at bf fortress
16:35 <madmax|pt> :S but i still can't get that white background on my nick off
16:36 <madmax|pt> waaaait...
16:37 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-223-188.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
16:37 <spidey> i love it
16:38 <spidey> except i can't use it
16:38 <madmax|pt> omg.. is the code Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 supposed to give you a white background!?
16:38 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: I already had them bind, 1 turns off map, 2 darkens it?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:38 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: yes
16:38 <madmax|pt> it is?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:38 <madmax|pt> holy crap
16:38 <madmax|pt> so thats it
16:38 <Vanhayes> ok
16:38 <wrtlprnft> that's a very dark blueish color
16:38 <Your_mom_arma> i just tried the .3 alpha and i get graphical glitches if i have high rim turned on
16:39 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: the darkening is for chico maps
16:39 <madmax|pt> i thought background couldnt be defined with the RGB.... :S
16:39 <wrtlprnft> so you can play just by hud map and ignore the 3d rendering
16:39 <wrtlprnft> madmax|pt: no it can't
16:39 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: screenshot?
16:39 <madmax|pt> ?... if i use Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 it gives that white background
16:39 <Your_mom_arma> i'll post something
16:40 <Vanhayes> too dark
16:40 <spidey> where's files like font/rim_wall/ect at :/
16:40 <wrtlprnft> all in textures
16:40 <wrtlprnft> for font, al, try typing FONT_FILE font.ttf :)
16:40 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ find textures
16:40 <spidey> find: textures: No such file or directory
16:41 <spidey> i'ma replace the fonts with the old one
16:41 <spidey> it kills my fps :/
16:41 <madmax|pt> wrtlprnft, if i use Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 it gives that white background
16:41 <wrtlprnft> spidey: can't forever :P
16:41 <spidey> went from 70 to 28 :<
16:41 <spidey> huh?
16:41 <wrtlprnft> say font_file 0 if you REALLY want to
16:41 <spidey> k
16:41 <wrtlprnft> but it won't be there for long
16:41 <spidey> brb
16:41 <wrtlprnft> *say FONT_TYPE 0
16:41 <wrtlprnft> try others as well. FONT_TYPE 2 should be fast
16:42 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:43 <MaZuffeR> madmax|pt: all colors that are "too" dark has white background
16:43 <madmax|pt> ... glup ...
16:44 <madmax|pt> didnt know that
16:44 <madmax|pt> thanks MaZuffeR 
16:44 <MaZuffeR> np
16:44 <MaZuffeR> i think this: http://www.mazuffer.com/temp/screenshot_5.png isn't supposed to happen
16:45 <madmax|pt> someone was describing something like that a while ago
16:45 <wrtlprnft> you don't mean the floor color, right?
16:45 <MaZuffeR> nope
16:45 <wrtlprnft> definitely a bug
16:45 <wrtlprnft> can you make a recording that brings you into that state?
16:45 <MaZuffeR> just start with internal cam and switch to the next one
16:46 <Vanhayes> ya I posted same thing on forums
16:46 <Vanhayes> no SS tho
16:46 <madmax|pt> btw, wasnt "player setup" the first item on the ingame menu?
16:46 <Vanhayes> no it was always player police
16:47 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:47 <madmax|pt> :S i must be imagining things
16:47 <spidey> meh
16:48 <spidey> fps dropped when i changed it :/
16:48 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=59911#59911
16:49 <wrtlprnft> and this only happens with high rim?
16:49 <wrtlprnft> some opengl dude will probably have to take care of it
16:50 <Your_mom_arma> yeah its a wierd little bug
16:58 <wrtlprnft> z-man: uh, there's no such thing as an nSettingItemLine? I'd need that...
17:21 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Help_talk:Contents&curid=1355&diff=6381&oldid=1984&rcid=5391
17:21 <wrtlprnft> omg
17:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you shouldn't have talked like that a few days ago...
17:23 <Your_mom_arma> ?
17:25 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:25 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:25 -!- Nazurath is now known as Vanhayes
17:25 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: we talked about it a few days ago, I said I don't remember it anymore and it's over now and he said it could come back
17:25 <wrtlprnft> and now we have a spammer again
17:25 <wrtlprnft> hopefully it was a human
17:25 <Your_mom_arma> oh
17:41 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:47 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
17:49  * wrtlprnft is gonna look if he'll get kicked if he joins BF fortress
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> go in as gaymosexual and someone'll try to kick you
17:59 <spidey> lahl
18:00 <spidey> i lost my systray....
18:01 <spidey> i'm getting good at this name guessing thing
18:01 <spidey> SD was in earlier on a fake name xD
18:01 <spidey> beware,another month of this and i'll have esp!!
18:11 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> I thought you already had espn!
18:14 <Your_mom_arma> how do i make a cockpit bargauge variable display verticaly
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> orientation="vertical" ?
18:15 <spidey> lol
18:15 <spidey> krdp won't work :/
18:15 <Your_mom_arma> tried that and that gave me errors
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, it's not on the wiki page
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> check wrtlprnft's map file, it's in resource/included/wrtlprnft somewhere
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> he has vertical bar gauges on the left, iirc.
18:16 <Your_mom_arma> okay
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: you should change the language file for your server to say "$1 pwned $2 for $3 points"
18:17 <spidey> heh
18:17 <Your_mom_arma> haha
18:17 <spidey> actually
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> Or just add "Pwned!" to the end of it
18:18 <Your_mom_arma> <VerticalBarGauge camera="^in">
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:18 <spidey> seeing as i can't use krdp to remote my windows computer
18:18 <spidey> i'll work on my server
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> apparently we need to add another gauge onto the wiki :)
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> FORBID_COCKPIT_DATA player_rubber   <--- I'm gonna put that on my server
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> and then lock out clients too old to understand it :)
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> you'll have to hack your client to get a rubber gauge!  arrrrr
18:23 <Your_mom_arma> haha
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, I just figured out how to stop packet loss forever
18:32 -!- k [n=k_at_wor@65-113-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> k!  I just figured out how to prevent packet loss forever!
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> yay!
18:32  * Lucifer_arma is a badass
18:32 <Your_mom_arma> ?
18:32  * Lucifer_arma covers a grin
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> we use...get this....
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> are you ready for it??
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> WE SHOULD USE TCP INSTEAD OF UDP!!
18:33 <k> Hi Luci.  First time on IRC.  Be nice. :)
18:33 <Your_mom_arma> hey k
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok k.  It's not much different from ingame chat, though.  Just don't press "s" everytime you want to say something
18:33 <Vanhayes> lol
18:34  * Lucifer_arma ignores what using tcp would do to pings
18:34  * Lucifer_arma thinks ping is irrelevant anyway
18:35 <Lucifer_arma> ok, joke's over.  it wsn't as funny as I thought it was.
18:51 <Lucifer_arma>  <--- can someone try to custom connect to this ip address?  my client's dead right now...
18:53 <Your_mom_arma> connection failed
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, ok, thanks.
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> you don't live in Durka's house, do you?
18:53 <Your_mom_arma> i hope not
18:54 <Your_mom_arma> why did your firewall block me?
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> he says he's opened the firewall for arma, and his nat router, but the master server only gives an ip address and it's unreachable (as you saw)
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> this usually means the port isn't open
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> so we just gotta figure out where the port is closed and get it open :)
18:57 <MaZuffeR> maybe he opened it only for TCP?
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> I told him twice to open it for UDP...
18:58 <MaZuffeR> k
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> (it was that conversation that spawned my bad joke)
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> so maybe he opened it for only TCP anyway.  Heh.  He's not a dumb guy, though, and this isn't hard, but it's the same old problem.  If I'm not sitting there looking over his shoulder, I don't know what he actually did,
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> or what his options are.  :(
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> #quote add "And I hate dying nearly as much as I hate Vanhayes." --featherfcuk
19:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
19:02 <Vanhayes> er...
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #quote add "And I hate dying nearly as much as I hate Vanhayes." --featherfcuk
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.  Quote #17 added.
19:02 <Vanhayes> where did you get that?
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> sorry Vanhayes, that's worth saving :)
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> forums
19:02 <Vanhayes> lol
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #q
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #q
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #13: "<hang3r> How many microbuscity's does it take to change a light bulb?" (added by hang3r at 11:41 PM, March 30, 2006)
19:04  * Lucifer_arma wants armabot available ingame too
19:04 <Vanhayes> Is that possible?
19:04 <Lucifer_arma> not currently, not without much work.
19:04 <Vanhayes> and Don't you think that would be abused?
19:04 <Vanhayes> spamm and all
19:04 <Lucifer_arma> the way armabot gets abused here, you mean?
19:05 <spidey> haha
19:05 <Vanhayes> heh
19:05 <Vanhayes> #eliza Hello
19:05 <armabot> Vanhayes: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
19:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to say the possibility definitely exists, but supybot is a good bot and seems to be doing a good job of avoiding abuse
19:05 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, it's configurable enough that I'm pretty sure we can reduce bot queries quite a bit
19:06 <Lucifer_arma> give it ingame admin capabilities and the ability to retaliate for certain types of abuse and we can keep it manageable
19:06 <spidey> then we could trick idiots into getting banned
19:06 <spidey> sweet,i'm for it!
19:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the ones that don't fall for the shift-escape pranks
19:07 <spidey> hahaha
19:10 <Vanhayes> #fortune
19:10 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, || "Today I will be brilliant." || -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3
19:10 <Lucifer_arma> Kirk could never say he was brilliant
19:11 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=60101#60101
19:11 <spidey> can't click it
19:11 <spidey> hold on
19:12 <spidey> resend it when spidey|2 joins
19:12 <Lucifer_arma> FIX YOUR FUCKIN' MOUSE!
19:12 <spidey> i can't
19:12 <spidey> i gotta buy a new one
19:12 -!- spidey|2 [n=spider@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:12 <spidey|2> k send it
19:12 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=60101#60101
19:14 <spidey|2> API ?
19:14 <spidey|2> wouldn't that stop you from adding it to nix versions?
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's open source and made for linux, how would it stop us?
19:14 <spidey|2> linux doesn't support api calls.....
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> crackbaby
19:14 <spidey|2> ?
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> api = application programming interface
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> it's a concept, not an implementation
19:15 <spidey|2> oh,i thought it ment like the windows api calls :p
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, linux supports shared objects
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, Windows API is a specific API
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> :)
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> OpenGL is an API for 3d programming
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> etc
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> but api is basically fancy words for "how this part can be talked to"
19:16 <spidey|2> ye
19:16 <spidey|2> a
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> so it can be in a shared library, and the interface to it is called na api, but you also refer to parts of our own program as an api
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> like, the new sound engine I'm talking about, it exposes an API that the rest of the game can use to trigger sound effects
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> that's its purpose :)
19:17 <Lucifer_arma> when the game is built, though, this api is part of the binary, so it's not a shared library.  So API is conceptual in meaning and takes different forms in real life.
19:17 <spidey|2> well,like i said i don't know to much C,i'm reading on it but i really wouldn't know how
19:18 <spidey|2> i could probably edit SDK to do what you want,~maybe~
19:19 <spidey|2> but you'd have to implament it :p
19:19 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-197-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the reason I directed you to the post was to show you there is a linux library for uPnP.  :)
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> umm, Vanhayes: what's the screenshot supposed to show us?
19:20 <Vanhayes> it didnt work?
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> what didn't work?
19:20 <Vanhayes> can u see the SS?
19:20  * spidey|2 can't use the .3 build untill i get another GFX card
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it just looked like regular inbetween round scoreboard viewing
19:20 <spidey|2> eats the shit outta my fps :<
19:20 <Vanhayes> ? I never noticed that before
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> what?  What are you trying to call attention to?
19:21 <Vanhayes> it usually turns your colour?
19:21 <Vanhayes> my team is suposed to be gold
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> to match your team?
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, looks like your team is red and named Vananators
19:21 <Vanhayes> lol ya
19:21 <Vanhayes> actually its Dark orange
19:40 <Vanhayes> #i
19:41 <Vanhayes> #list alias
19:41 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, (1 more message)
19:41 <Vanhayes> #more
19:41 <armabot> Vanhayes: realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
19:42 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
19:42 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:43 <spidey|2> !?
19:43 <spidey|2> #,armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: No chance.
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: It is possible.
19:43 <spidey|2> ?
19:43 <spidey|2> #help armabo
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: Error: There is no command "armabo".
19:43 <spidey|2> #help armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: (armabot <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "eightball $*".
19:44 <Vanhayes> #armabot,
19:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: You're kidding, right?
19:44 <Vanhayes> #insight
19:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: The phenomenal paradigm shifting of the Internet will escalate our future family values.
19:47 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:47 <spidey|2> #help armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:47 <armabot> spidey|2: (armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\: <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "".
19:47 <spidey|2> heh
19:50 <Vanhayes> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:50 -!- dlh``` [n=dlh```@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
19:52 <Vanhayes> #digg
19:52 <armabot> Vanhayes: Wine Doors opens Windows under Linux || U.S. Mad Cow Cases Result From Rare Strain || PS3 to support free online gaming, and Sony plans e-distribution service || TechEd 2006: Hybrid hard drives to become Vista Premium requirement || Report: High Schools Fail To Meet Needs Of Tech-Driven World || Free PHP and Oracle Manual is Available || Off-Grid Man Jailed For Confronting (5 more messages)
20:28 <Your_mom_arma> wow, center turned and tried to circle around me and tk me when i ran away he called me a (explative deleted) idiot noob
20:28 <Vanhayes> CT fort?
20:28 <Your_mom_arma> yeah dont tell me that was you
20:28 <Vanhayes> No but that is what it is like there usually
20:40 <spidey> heh
20:40 <spidey> was his about 13 minutes ago?
20:57 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-223-188.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
21:04 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AFD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:12 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:22 <Vanhayes> #fortune
21:22 <armabot> Random Fortune:  "What was the self-sacrifice? " || "I jettisoned half of a much loved and I think || irreplaceable pair of shoes. " || "Why was that self-sacrifice? " || "Because they were mine! " said Ford crossly. || "I think we have different value systems. " || "Well mine's better. " || "That's according to your... oh never mind. "
21:28 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
21:29 <Vanhayes> #good night
21:29 <Vanhayes> #night
21:29 <armabot> Good night Vanhayes!
21:30 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:41 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I managed to get half a mark on that sum question :)
21:43  * wrtlprnft is surprised k isn't used on freenode yet O_o
21:43 -!- You're now known as a
21:43 -!- You're now known as e
21:43 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
21:45 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man I propose we try each of the experimental changes again a while after is out to see if they work better with client support ;)
21:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:47 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:49 <spidey|2> anyone know any torrent sites :/
21:49 <spidey|2> thepiratebay.org got shutdown :<
21:52 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net
21:52 <wrtlprnft> knoppix torrent :P
21:52 <spidey|2> i can't read that,lol
21:53 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
21:53 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html to be exact
21:54 <wrtlprnft> there you have a torrent
21:54 <spidey|2> http://r.pm0.net/s/c?386.gj2n.6.7olo.56y2x
21:56 <spidey|2> John likes 400 but not 300; he likes 100 but not 99; he likes 3600 but not 3700. Which does he like?
21:56 <spidey|2> o_O
21:58 <Vanhayes> http://www.torrentportal.com/
21:58 <Vanhayes> http://www.torrentbox.com/
21:58 <Vanhayes> those ones work good for me
21:59 <spidey|2> wtf
22:00 <spidey|2> Aboy is 4 years old and his sister is three times as old as he is. When the boy is 12 years old, how old will his sister be?
22:00 <spidey|2> the answer is 36 right?
22:00 <Vanhayes> no
22:00 <spidey|2> :|
22:00 <Vanhayes> she will be 20
22:00 <spidey|2> well,twice as old is 24
22:01 <spidey|2> how?
22:01 <spidey|2> nvm
22:01 <Vanhayes> 3 times as old as 4
22:01 <spidey|2> >.>
22:01 <Vanhayes> lol
22:01 <spidey|2> yea yea,lol
22:01 <spidey|2> i did 12*3
22:01 <spidey|2> when it's 12+6
22:01 <spidey|2> 'er
22:01 <spidey|2> 12+89
22:02 <spidey|2> 8!
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> gj wrtlprnft 
22:06 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> anyways, want me to add that option to the camera code now?
22:07 <wrtlprnft> the one for relative/absolute glancing dirs?
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: i dont see y u wont try it
22:11 <spidey|2> spidey: how many times are you gonna ask me to join a crew....
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: plz
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: 
22:11 <spidey|2> spidey: no
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: ur GREAT!!!!!!!!!
22:12 <spidey|2> marisa: almost the best
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 24
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 3*4 = 12
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 12+12 = 24
22:15 <spidey|2> no
22:16 <spidey|2> the boy's 8 years older....so add 8 years to the sisters age
22:16 <spidey|2> i think :/
22:16  * spidey|2 is waiting for the iq test to prove he's fucking stupid
22:16 <spidey|2> so who knows x
22:16 <spidey|2> xD
22:18 <Vanhayes> its 3*4+8=20
22:18 <wrtlprnft> boy is four years => girl is 12
22:18 <Vanhayes> yes
22:18 <wrtlprnft> boy grows 8 years older, sister grows 8 years older
22:18 <Vanhayes> but when the boy is 12
22:18 <wrtlprnft> => 20 :)
22:19 <spidey|2> that question was confusing is all :s
22:19 <wrtlprnft> then the boy is 12 and the girl is 20 :)
22:19 <Vanhayes> Exactally
22:19 <wrtlprnft> the canadians solved it!
22:19 <spidey|2> lol
22:19 <Vanhayes> #canada
22:19 <armabot>  4 
22:19 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:20 <spidey|2> 
22:20 <spidey|2> lol
22:20 <spidey|2> test
22:21 <spidey|2> 00lol
22:21 <spidey|2> mmm
22:25 <wrtlprnft> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
22:25 <wrtlprnft> that's why that double- widget bug is appearing!
22:40 <wrtlprnft> #later tell mazuffer thanks for telling me about that bug with both the incam and the normal cockpit appearing at once. The problem was that there was a new camera mode added, and you entered that after incam. The cockpit didn't handle it and just displayed all widgets out of confusion, therefore the chaos. It's fixed in SVN, so the next dev snapshot will have it :)
22:40 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: details?  this sounds like something we need to get into 0.3.0?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
22:52 <armabot> 1
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
22:53 <armabot> Texas > Canada
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, canadians doing math while americans eat dinner
22:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://www.mazuffer.com/temp/screenshot_5.png
22:54 <GodTodd> lucifer: how many credit hours are you taking per full semester?
22:54 <wrtlprnft> that's what it loos like in mercam mode with the default cockpit...
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, that's weird.  What's mercam mode?
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: last semester I took 13 credit hours
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> next semester I'm looking at 12, 14, or 15, depending on whether I decide to take a fourth class, and what it is if I do
22:56 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: try it :P
22:56 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it's fixed tho
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, it might be 11, 14, or 15
22:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:56 <GodTodd> ok....was trying to decide if i should take 4 or 5 classes in august....not sure still
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> my first semester I took 9 credit hours
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I figured I never really had good study habits, and I wanted to start with a lower load so I could focus on good study habits
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> it gave me more time to experiment, and also mitigated any potential damages that screwing up might have caused :)
22:58 <GodTodd> i'm thinking that too...but then my mind says it's going to take for-freaking-ever to get my degree if i take a lower load
22:58 <wrtlprnft> the function of the time I spend doing schoolwork at home vs the grade I'm in has a limit of 0
22:58 <GodTodd> inner conflict and all that ;)
22:58 <wrtlprnft> as the grade goes to oo
22:59 <GodTodd> looking at trig and c++ for sure....then choosing all or some of US History, TX History and US Government
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> there's very little difference the first semester is going to make in how long it takes, imo it's more important to start off on the right foot than to blow away a bunch of credit hours
22:59 <GodTodd> true...
23:00  * Lucifer_arma wonders what an infinite grade looks like
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: expect that to change when you reach college.  :)  If you go, that is.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> around here, they stuff so much material that if you don't study, you miss a lot of what you were taught.  None of those high school baby steps.  :)
23:00 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll end up in university after i finish school in germany
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I'd expect both trig and c++ to carry a pretty good workload even for someone who already knows it all
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> my trig class was pretty easy, though, I could do all the homework for it in about an hour on sunday
23:01 <GodTodd> true...i might just do those and TX History
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> Now history I was really paranoid with, and if you were taking teachers I'd taken I could give you better info :)
23:01  * wrtlprnft hopes one of the c++ projects GodTodd will have to do is write a formula parser
23:02 <wrtlprnft> pass it to arma when you're finished ;)
23:02 <GodTodd> :D
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the problem was that I could see the teacher really loading you down with studying dates and names and figures and crap
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> if the teacher did that to me, I'm fucked.  So I totally went overboard studying for my first history test.
23:02 <GodTodd> heh i have to take java for my degree and even tho c++ isn't technically required it is a prereq for java
23:03 <GodTodd> i can handle history ok
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> but by the time I finished my history sequence, I was just attending, taking notes, reading the book, and then skimming my notes the night before the test
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> I think the real question is always "do they test on rote recall or skills?"
23:03 <GodTodd> very true
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> Because if they test skills (comprehension in history/government classes), I can ace that shit pretty simply
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> if they want rote recall....well, I need to spend some time with it
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's how I'm wired.  :)
23:04 <GodTodd> :)
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I wound up with teachers that tested skills, and have concluded that most teachers at ACC probably test on skills rather than rote recall
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> There's always some rote recall involved, mind you.  :)
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> Luckily, that means I can vary the amount of homework and studying I do.
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> I guess you really need to just take a few classes to get a feel for how they're going to be paced and how much work will be needed,
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> and to some extent you already know from previous schooling
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> the only catch is that you're in a different school, different teachers, different goals, and that's going to influence the classes you take, what you get out of them, and what
23:05 <GodTodd> true....i've taken college courses in 2 other states as well ;)
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> you're expected to put into them
23:06 <GodTodd> right
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you don't need a whole semester to calibrate?  I actually spent two semesters on that step, now I'm hitting full-bore as much as I can handle (or think I can)
23:06 <GodTodd> i think i'm going to stuff precal into wintermester
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> so, in january?
23:07 <GodTodd> right
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, we call that Spring
23:07 <GodTodd> heh we call the one that STARTS in january Spring ;)
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh, oh yeah.  That's right, we do actually turn our heaters on for a few hours in january, don't we?
23:08 <GodTodd> wintermester starts right before winter break and ends a week before Spring starts
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> so calc 1 in the summer?  :)
23:08 <GodTodd> Spring
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> you know, you can double up on precal and trig quite easily
23:09 <GodTodd> not here
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> they won't let you?!?!?
23:09 <GodTodd> precal is a PREreq here
23:09 <GodTodd> errr
23:09 <GodTodd> trig is
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> well of course, but, uhhhhh
23:09 <GodTodd> trig is a prereq for precal
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> you won't need it right away, and you'll have covered it when you do need it :)
23:09 <GodTodd> can't coreq
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, here it's a prereq, but taking the two together is permitted and considered satisfying the prereq
23:10 <GodTodd> i'll doublecheck...probably call the advisors....
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what happens if you ace precal and flunk trig, though
23:10 <GodTodd> lol
23:10 <GodTodd> retake trig
23:10 <GodTodd> *shrug*
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :)
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, the other thing you probably already know, check out the teachers a lot.  :)
23:10 <GodTodd> IF i can coreq them then still calc 1 in Spring
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> I pick kids with good work ethics and good grades and generally take what they say about their teachers to heart and think about it
23:11 <GodTodd> so no biggie if i can't
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> but those lazy little fucks that whine about having to do homework in the first place?  Nah, I'll avoid the teachers they like.
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:11 <GodTodd> i know those ropes
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> I can't see you (or anybody) doing precal and calc 1 at the same time
23:11 <GodTodd> nope
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> everything that's in precal really is a prereq for calc 1
23:12 <GodTodd> wouldn't have to....if they offer it in wintermester that is
23:12 <GodTodd> yep
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> so they have a separate wintermester?  That's odd....heh
23:12 <GodTodd> we have 5 semesters (unless you count summer as 3)...Fall, Winter, Spring, May, Summer
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I'll bet there's actually something like that at acc, but it'll be different
23:13 <GodTodd> it's like having an additional Summer I & II a year
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> we have the standard 3 semesters where fall and spring are 14 week semesters, then summer is 11 weeks
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> then they have an 8 week term for both fall and spring, and a 3.5 week term for the summer
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> *5.5
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> seems like they could squeeze out 5 terms with those iddy-bitty terms, but not out of the long terms
23:14 <GodTodd> ahhhh....so kinda the same thing...just different ;)
23:14 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with 15
23:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [22:56:25] <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, it might be 11, 14, or 15
23:14 <wrtlprnft> that's 18 minutes ago now and I'm tired ;)
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and they do have two 8-week terms in a row in the spring, which now tht i think aabout it is a 16-week semester
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> hey, ummm
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> your_mom's got a crash when he leaves local game.  That spells branch to me.
23:16 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: your_mom has lots of weird errors
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> what's the possibility you could straighten out the columns in the scoreboard?  You say you already fixed the mercam thing?  I don't think we'll be able to just turn the alpha into 0.3.0
23:16 <wrtlprnft> we need an opengl guy for that
23:16 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it's more or less 0 right now...
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> not really, he has one problem that I know of, which is the game crashing when he quits.  The mechanism that changes the screen resolution when the game crashes doesn't work too well, that's his other problem
23:16 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is that it's not a real table
23:17 <wrtlprnft> and real table support has a long way to go
23:17 <wrtlprnft> anything like a debug recording?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> no, I recognize his symptoms, and it's probably something in the sound engine, to be honest
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like a debug recording, just haven't asked him for one yet
23:18 <wrtlprnft> I don't think i changed anything that could make arma crash on exit ;)
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so the mercam screenshot I'm looking at right now is fixed though?
23:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah
23:19 <wrtlprnft> Commit by wrtlprnft :: r4885 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/cockpit/ (cCockpit.cpp cCockpit.h): 
23:19 <wrtlprnft> Fixed the bug that all widgets would appear in mercam mode. There just wasn't any handling for it, added it.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, then it looks like the only thing terrible in the alpha right now is a crash.  Which, to be honest, if it's just a crash when exiting local game I might be willing to blow off
23:20 <wrtlprnft> I added the font size factor thing
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> that was it, you said you were tired and I wanted to catch that before you took off :)
23:21 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:21 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's good, people will be happy about that one
23:21 <wrtlprnft> then the forbid stuff, silly should be happy now
23:33 <GodTodd> wtf....not even offering precal for math and science in fall :/
23:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508744C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:38 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-76-248.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: check the alpha thread, I responded to your crash thing
23:58 <Your_mom_arma> every time i leave a local game it crashes
23:58 <Your_mom_arma> its not sometimes its all the time

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DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.

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