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Log from 2006-06-01:
--- Day changed Thu Jun 01 2006
00:29 <spidey> wanna pwn cvs luci?
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> few minutes, I've got a cd ripping and a compile going.  When both of those are done, sure
00:29 <spidey> k ;D
00:30  * Lucifer_arma is getting his cd collection ripped to ogg vorbis finally.
00:30 <spidey> hehehe
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> it's on the fifth of 12 songs
00:30 <spidey> luckily my stereo plays music burnt in data format
00:30 <spidey> so i can fit hella lot of songs on 1 cd
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> well, I admit, I'm doing it for the car computer I"m putting together.  :)  I want to fit more songs on the 4GB hard drive
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> I have a 13GB collection, but most of it I don't have in original uncompressed format, so I'm trimming what I can.
00:35 <spidey> lmao
00:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's nice, distcc is finally working
00:36 <spidey> i wonder
00:36 <spidey> if my stereo will play music burnt on a dvd -r in data format
00:37 <spidey> know any dvd -r burners for linux?
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> cdrdao
00:37 <spidey> k
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> k3b should support it just fine
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> oh wait, you're a gnomer aren't you?
00:38 <spidey> kde
00:39 <spidey> installing flux when i get unlazy
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> yay, we have /console now :)
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> ok, going to fortress
00:56 <spidey> kk
01:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:09 <spidey> ;p;
01:09 <spidey> lol
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft hey, ummm, why do callbacks have to be members of cCockpit?
01:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
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02:43 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-036-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
02:44 <spidey> hey joda :)
02:44 <joda_bot> hi
02:44  * node7 greets everybody before sitting down, eating a cracker and idling :)
04:07 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
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04:44 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
05:36 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
06:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes they do currently
06:53 <wrtlprnft> they need the m_Player, m_ViewportPlayer, etc, which is stored in cCockpit ;)
06:53 <wrtlprnft> or some of them do, actually most
06:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: /console gets interpreted on the client?
07:10 <z-man> wrtlprnft: cvscheck is now devcheck. we may be adding darcs mirrors, and "make svncheck && darcs push" just doesn't sound right :)
07:11 <z-man>  /console is interpreted on the client, yes. It would be fatal if the server did it :) But I think it's not in the right spot yet.
07:13 <wrtlprnft> maybe we should add another key for commands interpreted on the client? That's a mess right now methinks
07:13 <wrtlprnft> like #console blah, #vote pimp
07:20 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it doesn't crash for me, but i don't see explosions, either :(
07:22 <wrtlprnft> z-man: does the client know what zone belongs to which team?
07:22 <z-man> about #: maybe, yes.
07:22 <z-man> about zones: no.
07:22 <z-man> It just knows the color.
07:23 <z-man> Umm, I guess that makes ed's feature request a bit difficult...
07:23 <wrtlprnft> that's what i mean
07:23 <z-man> The client doesn't even know whether it's a win, kill or fortress zone.
07:23 <z-man> We'd need server determined HUD elements, it seems.
07:23 <wrtlprnft> I mean, i could just compare the color with the team color, but that's a hack
07:23 <z-man> eek
07:24 <wrtlprnft> the trouble with those server HUD elements is, how does the client know where to place them?
07:24 <z-man> Heh, from a cockpit resource.
07:25 <z-man> the placement would be determined client side, the values server side.
07:25 <z-man> Of course, the cockpit would need to be adapted to new server features, but better just the cockpit than the game code.
07:26 <wrtlprnft> so you say, just make data sources that come from the server?
07:26 <wrtlprnft> and the server tells the client which sources it can provide
07:27 <z-man> Right.
07:27 <wrtlprnft> hmm. can you help me with the network stuff then? I have no clue at all about it
07:28 <wrtlprnft> i guess the client needs a way to request which ones it wants to get sent, and the server sends them at every sync
07:31 <z-man> I think I can help there, yes.
07:33 <z-man> An interesting problem would be player dependant stuff. It needs to be possible to attach the info elements to teams and players, so the client can pick the right ladder position indicator for its player.
07:33  * z-man will think of something.
07:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:40 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
07:44 <wrtlprnft> well, the client requests what information it wants, right?
07:44 <wrtlprnft> Then it will just send the player id, the name of the callback as a string, and some ID thingy so the string doesn't have to be transferred again
07:45 <Luke-Jr> is the hiearchial, cascading, 3D configuration system assigned to someone? =p
07:45 <wrtlprnft> and the server memorizes a function pointer to the callback it's gonna used, the ID, the client ID, and the player
07:45  * wrtlprnft assigns it to Luke-Jr 
07:46 <wrtlprnft> :P
07:46 <Luke-Jr> crap :x
07:46 <Luke-Jr> I'd probably end up rewriting it, since I have no idea how the current one works
07:46  * wrtlprnft pushes it far away from wrtlprnft 
07:46 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: OOP, right? Please no weird functions
07:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: probably, since the settings would apply to objects
07:48 <Luke-Jr> I guess the plan is more of "OO" rather than "hiearchial"
07:48 <wrtlprnft> what about storing tValues in settings?
07:48 <Luke-Jr> shrug, ask whoever ends up writing it =p
07:48 <wrtlprnft> O_o_�
07:48 <Luke-Jr> What is a tValue anyway?
07:49 <Luke-Jr> can it be more than just functions?
07:49 <Luke-Jr> eg, colours, strings, resources
07:49 <wrtlprnft> currently it can be an int, string, float or special type
07:49 <wrtlprnft> special types would be config items, callbacks, conditions, math et
07:49 <wrtlprnft> c
07:50 <wrtlprnft> all that exists already :)
07:50 <Luke-Jr> BTW, how would you like the idea of having MAP_FILE be internally a {author, category, name, version} struct/class, and assignable either as MAP_FILE.Author (etc) or MAP_FILE ?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> hmm. that should be doable
07:50 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: so it'd need support for resources and colours at least
07:51 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't be that hard to add colors
07:51 <Luke-Jr> nor resources
07:51 <wrtlprnft> resources... you mean the entire parsed thing or just the path/meta info?
07:51 <Luke-Jr> just need a bit of the planned enhancements to the resource system
07:51 <Luke-Jr> neither
07:51 <Luke-Jr> the tResource subclass
07:52 <Luke-Jr> which is parsed/loaded on demand
07:52 <Luke-Jr> (or in advance, if limitations require)
07:52 <Luke-Jr> but tValue doesn't need to know if it's loaded or not ;)
07:52 <Luke-Jr> nor does anything, really, since the loading is transparent
07:53 <wrtlprnft> so it would contain a pointer?
--- Log opened Thu Jun 01 16:26:24 2006
16:26 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:26 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 17 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
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16:27 -!- fr34k [n=54a199fa@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:27 <wrtlprnft> did i miss anything?
16:27 <wrtlprnft> darn provider
16:28 <MaZuffeR> n54 just told us he likes cucumber
16:28  * wrtlprnft likes gurken (cucumbers) too
16:28 <wrtlprnft> agurk it was, right?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: they don't necessarily have to be
16:30 <wrtlprnft> the responsible tValue class is a template to accept any member of any object
16:30 <wrtlprnft> but you'd have to add them to cWidget::WithDataFunctions in a different way
16:30 <n54> yup wrtlprnft :)
16:30 <n54> and hello MaZuffeR :)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, so they just can't be regular functions?
16:31  * Lucifer_arma core dumps MaZuffeR for 1 points.
16:31 <MaZuffeR> hi
16:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: currently not
16:32 <wrtlprnft> they have to be a nonstatic member of some object
16:32  * n54 tries to remember hello in finnish but never manages
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> I think  Luke-Jr just won the award for most harebrained post ever: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=52611#52611  <--- how about cockpit elements?
16:32 <wrtlprnft> but feel free to add another tValue::Callback that removes that constraint
16:33 <wrtlprnft> second, just going through posts
16:33 <wrtlprnft> no, no real clue for i18n
16:33  * Lucifer_arma also wants to il8n the announcer, if reasonable
16:34 <wrtlprnft> maybe we can add the possibility to use language strings everyone in the cockpit where it expects text
16:34 <n54> as in have him7her speak in tons of languages?
16:34  * Lucifer_arma notes that we could just do the code for it, but provide abstract noises in the default installation
16:34 <wrtlprnft> then add some things like rubber, brake etc
16:34 <MaZuffeR> hello is moi or hei in finnish
16:34 <wrtlprnft> the rest would remain untranslated
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's fairly obvious, imo, that we'll just do something like that.  There was talk of switching to gnu gettext, though, so we'd use what gettext wants.
16:35 -!- fr34k [n=54a199fa@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> the real question, I think, has more to do with how to make it possible for other people to il8n their own resources with strings that don't ship with the game and ship their translations with the resource
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> so would we do, for example, something like <Files> <Translation language="de" file="douche.pot" /> ?
16:36 <n54> ah moi was the word I had forgotten
16:36 <wrtlprnft> just make a section in the cockpit where you can define your own language strings?
16:36 <n54> thank you :)
16:36 <wrtlprnft> <i18n>
16:36 <MaZuffeR> :)
16:36 <wrtlprnft> <string name="rubber">
16:37 <wrtlprnft> <translation lang="de" value="gummi" />
16:37 <wrtlprnft> <translation lang="en" value="rubber" />
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that would require the cockpit file to be able to handle all sorts of encodings.  While utf-8 is supposed to satisfy us, I'd prefer not to have to deal with other encodings in the cockpit file itself
16:37 <wrtlprnft> <!-- ... -->
16:37 <wrtlprnft> </string>
16:37 <wrtlprnft> <!-- ... -->
16:37 <wrtlprnft> </i18n>
16:37 <wrtlprnft> the
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> wow, so gummi bear = rubber bear?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> then make an extra resource for that?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> gummib�r it is
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> does that make translations resources, then?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> or gummibaer
16:38 <wrtlprnft> or gummibar with two dots over the a
16:39 <wrtlprnft> I'd say the basic translations won't be resources
16:39 <wrtlprnft> but you can resources to add on those
16:39 <wrtlprnft> *use
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> but if translations are resources, then do we have to link to translations directly, or just use strings that are in them and the cockpit (and other resources) will do the right thing?
16:39 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: for some reason, thought you were talking about only maps
16:39 <Luke-Jr> go figure, I just woke up
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> also, I'm of a mind that thinks that whenever we take game data that ships with the game and turn it into a resource, then the actual data we ship should be converted to resources
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: go edit your post with something intelligent before anybody else notices
16:40 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why does wrtl's thing require other encodings?
16:40 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well, we would support to overlay any number of translations
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm pretty sleepy and don't know if I'm making much sense in general, and z-man should be part of this conversation since he did a very thorough evaluation of translation systems awhile back
16:43 <Luke-Jr> <switch e="language"><case e="de">ist</case><case e="en" fallthru="default" /><default>is</default></switch>
16:44 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:44 <Luke-Jr> =p
16:44  * Lucifer_arma notes that there are over 1000 languages in use on the planet today
16:44 <wrtlprnft> e?
16:44 <Luke-Jr> expression?
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g e
16:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: e = 2.71828183
16:45 <wrtlprnft> #...
16:45 <Luke-Jr> #g pi
16:46  * nemostultae notes that XML is a terrible base to write a programming language in
16:46  * Luke-Jr notes it's been done
16:46 <n54> amen nemo
16:46 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: tried xslt?
16:46 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: what do you refer to in your ... post?
16:47 <Luke-Jr> XML is a terrible base for anything complex to be edited by humans only.
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> that means "insert somethiing smart here"
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> xml just plain sucks, why are we even using it?
16:48 <Luke-Jr> one of my side projects is a XML-based lanugage ;)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> we should just make our own binary file formats
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> we'll use 12 bits per word to deal with endianness, so we have to do byte-flipping no matter where we're running
16:48 <nemostultae> You write programs in binary?
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> resources!  :)
16:49  * Lucifer_arma remembers typing programs in in oct back on the c-64
16:49 <Luke-Jr> pfft
16:49 <Luke-Jr> endianness isn't a problem
16:49 <Luke-Jr> there's only one logical way to do it after all
16:49 <Luke-Jr> Where's the logic in bits 9-16 followed by 1-8?
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it should read from left->right just like a regular decimal number when you write it
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> 1020 is one thousand twenty, not two thousand ten
16:50 <Luke-Jr> or 201
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> right
16:51 <Luke-Jr> I could go with a binary format if it's extensible ;)
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> no way, we're gonna pack everything in as tight as possible to keep it as small as possible
16:51 <Luke-Jr> then we can change XML formats on the run and just recompile them for a new binary format
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> we'll write alib, which is armagetron compression, and use our own compressors
16:51 <Luke-Jr> kk
16:52 <Luke-Jr> if you insist
16:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you don't see any other devs playing very often?
16:52 <Luke-Jr> just fix sound first
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> forget that, we'll just start at the kernel level.  I'm not a big fan of this monolithic thing sitting underneath me anyway
16:52 <wrtlprnft> I'm playing am hour or so a day on average, and joda is online quite often too :)
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: not really, no.  Of course, a prerequisite for me to see them playing often is for me to play often.  :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:53 <Luke-Jr> I play maybe once a month, outside of testing
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> nah, my point wsn't that they don't play, just that they don't encounter each other a whole helluva lot, and it goes in phases anyway.
16:53 -!- Nixda211 [n=59347840@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> I used to see nemo all the time, but now he's never around.
16:53 -!- Nixda211 [n=59347840@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has left #armagetron []
16:54 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
16:54 <Luke-Jr> /msg Nixda211 screw you
16:54 <nemostultae> nixda is the old server that housed all the people who crashed other servers, right?
16:54  * Lucifer_arma suspects Luke-Jr's sound problems are local, since everyone else that he's talked to that's built with the new sound stuff has reported success
16:55 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: nixda kinda belongs ot joda...
16:55 <nemostultae> hmm, other server then
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's how I remember Nixda too, actually.  Except that I found out later that nixda just hosts the german community and is very noob friendly.
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> so it's probably just that it's noob friendly, and new punks tend to like to do stuff like that, and there's a pretty steady flow of new punks into and then out of the game.
16:56 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:56 <wrtlprnft> and nixda is joda's webchat, the one i use for wrtl_web_broken
16:56 <wrtlprnft> #seen wrtl_web_broken
16:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: wrtl_web_broken was last seen in #armagetron 1 day, 3 hours, 35 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <wrtl_web_broken> anyways, I'll try renaming myself to phil once in a while, I'm sure it will work one day
16:57 <wrtlprnft> phil is still online
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> I /msg'ed that phil guy to see if he could come here for a second.  I think he's a bot, though.
16:57 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> he's in lots of channels, he's here all the time?
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's got channel-logger written all over it.
16:58 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
16:59 <joda_bot> http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=22938&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=163&iSubCat=166&iProductID=22938
16:59 <joda_bot> From the tronsector website
16:59 <nemostultae> thats where all the donated money should go -- buying developers tron jackets
17:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:00  * wrtlprnft thinks we're taking money too seriously right now
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> can I get an Indiana Jones jacket instead?
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> I would look pretty stupid wearing a tron jacket and an indiana jones hat..
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> you know, stupider than I look just wearing the hat
17:01 <joda_bot> lol
17:01 <wrtlprnft> go find a tron hat!
17:01 <joda_bot> How about Ed Keefe's Tron Comic ?
17:01 <joda_bot> Is our Ed Ed Keefe ?
17:01 <joda_bot> I guess he might be
17:01  * Lucifer_arma thinks so
17:02 <joda_bot> http://www.tron-sector.com/ftp/Miscellaneous/TRON_RequestAccessToCluProgram_compressed.pdf
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> or our ed copied it, one of the two.  But ed linked a tron comic that he was making.
17:02 <wrtlprnft> you mean edd on the forums, right?
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> no, ed on the command line
17:02 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873C86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:03 <wrtlprnft> the guy who makes all those nice maps and splash screens and cycle screens and whatever
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> you know, tron had the right solution to the whole line ending problem.  Instead of just saying CR or LF, or CRLF, they say "END OF LINE"
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that ed
17:03 <nemostultae> ed keefe is the one who makes all the tron light-cycle models.
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't ed keefe look just like pee-wee herman?
17:04  * joda_bot praises Ed's work
17:05 <joda_bot> He seems to have a 3d model of a complete game grid including surroundings ;)
17:05 <joda_bot> wow lovely ;)
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.a1eddie.com/image1.htm
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.a1eddie.com/movie7.htm
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.a1eddie.com/movie2.htm  <--- very nice
17:08 <joda_bot> cool he put a advertisement at the end of the comic for armagetron advanced
17:08 <joda_bot> ;)
17:09 <joda_bot> You've seen the movie, read the book, now fight for the users on the game grid...
17:09 <joda_bot> We really need some better from of news aggregation
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> but....watch out for that wall!
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> I want instant chat resources.  So I can have like 3-5 packages of instant chats I like to use and pick the ones I want loaded at any point in time.
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> then I can be annoying in my choice of flavors!
17:13 <wrtlprnft> I want that font ed uses for his tron stuff, the one on the title screen :(
17:13 <wrtlprnft> that would be the perfect font for the menu
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> my house is being invaded by black spiders with bright yellow stripes
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> they look like tron spiders, to be honest
17:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: uh, the music display on the HUD looks really ugly right now
17:21 <wrtlprnft> it makes the left column far to wide
17:21 <wrtlprnft> I'd opt for some spot on the bottom left
17:21 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  I tested it in a separate widget and then tossed it in where it's at without testing, sorry.  :(
17:22 <wrtlprnft> np
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> also, if we have any path-trimming functions that'll give me just what's after the last slash, I'd like to know about them.  :)
17:22 -!- phil [n=phil@unaffiliated/phil] has joined #armagetron
17:22 -!- phil [n=phil@unaffiliated/phil] has left #armagetron []
17:22 <wrtlprnft> does it really matter? I thought
17:22 <wrtlprnft> !
17:22 <wrtlprnft> say something guy
17:23 <wrtlprnft> <continued> you wanted to replace it by the title anyways?
17:23 <nemostultae> basename, lucifer?
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> hi phil, bye phil
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
17:24 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> hmm...  Got any other bright ideas?
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> um, nemostultae: we have a basename function?
17:25 <nemostultae> c does
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: yes, I do, but the title should come either from tags in the music file, or for aatracks from the xml file.  If failing the first for regular songs, then basename
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> the catch is, sdl_mixer and sdl_audio aren't capable of reading those tags, so we're basically looking at another dependency.  Arg.
17:27 <wrtlprnft> #man 3 basename
17:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Couldn't get RSS feed.
17:27 <wrtlprnft> grr, useless thing
17:27 <wrtlprnft> but look at that manpage :)
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> NOTE: click here if you get an empty page.  <--- ?  that doesn't make any sense.
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17:34 <wrtlprnft> wow, cia is fast in getting committs
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> svn isn't down anymore, I guess.  Just committed a fix.
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> using bsename :)
17:35 <Lucifer_arma> on non-gnu platforms, need to check if string.h has a basename function, the docs I found were glibc-oriented
17:35 <Lucifer_arma> and the one in libgen.h wanted a char* instead of a const char*
17:35 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: use const_cast for that
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> libgen modifies the string, and the string itself is in a tString...
17:36 <wrtlprnft> basename(const_cast<char *> yourconstcharptr);
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> didn't feel safe to me.
17:36 <wrtlprnft> ah ok, makes sense then
17:36 <wrtlprnft> i thought it was just the wrong header and it didn't modify it
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> if it doesn't work out, we can make a wrapper that uses the glibc one from string.h on gnu platforms and then wraps the libgen.h one for other platforms
17:37 <Lucifer_arma> we = I in this case, more than likely :)
17:37 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:37 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.dafont.com/font.php?file=tron ?
17:38 <wrtlprnft> no, not that one
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> is that the same one I stumbled across that misery posted when I didn't?  ;)
17:38 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ok it's not ed's font ;)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> does gcc on windows use glibc, too?
17:39 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: look at the @ sign in that font you linked
17:40 <wrtlprnft> that's the weirdest one I've ever seen
17:40 <joda_bot> yeah i know ;)
17:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I also got another font called xenotron but it doesn't match either
17:41 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's not even a real tron font...
17:41 <wrtlprnft> it would just be cool because of the title ;)
17:42 <n54> I think so Lucifer
17:42 <n54> I would be somewhat surprised if it didn't
17:43 <n54> but perhaps that code::blocks thingy does something rare although it used mingw didn't it? if so it should be glibc
17:43  * n54 presumes the code::block thingy uses gcc, otherwise what would be the point of it?
17:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: just use the library function. If it doesn't work it will be the windows support guy's job to fix it :P
17:44  * wrtlprnft glances at z-man-work 
17:44 <wrtlprnft> or just all linux as one of our dependencies
17:45 <wrtlprnft> *add
17:45  * n54 thinks it's a good idea to support multiple platforms
17:45 <joda_bot> http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/typodermic/nasalization/regular/
17:45 <joda_bot> ;)
17:45 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: 
17:46 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: used the splash to look it up
17:46 <wrtlprnft> n54: that was meant to be a joke :)
17:47 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: thanks :)
17:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, but...
17:47 <wrtlprnft> nvm
17:54 <wrtlprnft> hmm
17:54 <wrtlprnft> viewing the license of that font...
17:54 <wrtlprnft> i can alter it, exept [a-z][A-Z][0-9]
17:55 <wrtlprnft> but can I reproduce it? Like put it onto Luke-Jr's repository?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> nvm
17:55 <nemostultae> It isn't a free font.
17:55 <wrtlprnft> - Installation and Use. You may install and use an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. You may copy and distribute unlimited copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT as you receive them, in any medium, provided that you publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice. Keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and give any other recipients of the fonts a copy of this License along with the fonts.
17:55 <wrtlprnft> it's not GPL compatible, no
17:56 <wrtlprnft> but stuff on Luke-Jr's repository doesn't have to be since it isn't distributed together with the game
17:56 <wrtlprnft> as long as i keep the license there and don't alter those chars I'm fine doing with it whatever i want
17:57 <wrtlprnft> it's more free (as in freedom) than most other free (as in free beer) fonts
17:59 <n54> oh ok wrtlprnft - sorry I see it way above my head when I look up ;)
18:00 <wrtlprnft> :) np
18:02 <wrtlprnft> heck i LOVE that font :)
18:03 <n54> if the above was it's copy notice it might be fruitful to contact the creator
18:04 <spidey> i love piza
18:04  * n54 loves warm bodies
18:04 <n54> *creepy* lol (I meant live ones of course)
18:05 <wrtlprnft> i probably will contact him/her
18:05 <wrtlprnft> that phrase bothers me:
18:05 <wrtlprnft> No payment is required for the use of this font unless it is included with software
18:05 <n54> oh
18:06 <wrtlprnft> strictly it's not gonna be included, but it will be selectable for automatic download
18:06 <n54> but the fact that armagetron is gpl and way cool might change that in our specific case ^^
18:06 <n54> and you can quote me on that :)
18:06 <n54> would be nice if we could include it
18:06 <wrtlprnft> well, the fact that it's GPL restricts us to include that font directly
18:06 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't allow modifications of alphanumeric chars
18:06 <n54> hmm yes
18:07 <wrtlprnft> that might still work out with GFDL
18:07 <n54> yup
18:07 <n54> or he might do some license magic, it's not code after all but graphics
18:07 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=370
18:08 <n54> *loads link*
18:08 <n54> sweet
18:08 <wrtlprnft> i probably need to add |
18:09 <n54> what's with the alternating direction for w and m?
18:09 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
18:09  * n54 could make a font that's simpilar but not a copy
18:09 <wrtlprnft> one is a small w/m and one is the big W/M
18:09 <n54> similar*
18:09 <n54> ooh ok
18:10 <n54> nice touch
18:10 <wrtlprnft> n54: that font is almost latin-1 complete, so matching that would be a hell of a lot of work
18:11 <n54> I said could ^^ (there's a reason I'm not all that active) :)
18:11 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
18:11 <n54> latin-1 isn't that bad though
18:11 <n54> some day :)
18:11 <wrtlprnft> hmm, the ^ says "hypodermic" in it
18:12 <wrtlprnft> but from the licence i could just remove it or move it to some control character
18:12 <n54> *looks up hypodermic cause I'm slightly confused by your use of it*
18:12 <wrtlprnft> no clue what it means
18:12 <wrtlprnft> it just says that in the character
18:13 <n54> heard of a hypodermic needle? hypodermic means under the dermic (skin) layer
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i know
18:13 <wrtlprnft> but what does it mean in that context?
18:14 <n54> are we talking about this cahracter -> ^ ?
18:14 <wrtlprnft> z[\]hypodermic_`abc
18:14 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:14 <n54> huh I had no idea , where does it say hypodermic in it?
18:15 <wrtlprnft> the whole character just says that
18:15  * n54 wonders if wrtlprnft is brain-fucking him :|
18:16 <n54> where?
18:17 <wrtlprnft> or no
18:17 <wrtlprnft> it says typodermic O_O
18:17 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/typodermic.png
18:17 <n54> `_'
18:19 <n54> fontname?
18:20 <wrtlprnft> Nasalization
18:20 <n54> leave my nose alone! ^^
18:20 <wrtlprnft> Nasalization == name of the font
18:20 <n54> well nazalisation is a real word too ;)
18:21 <n54> typodermic might be too, but I don't really think so
18:21 <n54> "font that goes below the skin/surface"
18:21  * n54 is edugessing
18:22 <n54> but it shouldn't really apply to ^any which way imo :)
18:22 <wrtlprnft> no, it's just the website it originally came from :P
18:22 <n54> however a below baseline traingular spacing mark could be "typodermic" I guess
18:23 <n54> ah ok
18:23 <wrtlprnft> http://www.typodermic.com/
18:23 <n54> so you weren't actually talking about ^itself were you?
18:23 <wrtlprnft> http://www.typodermic.com/14.html
18:23 <wrtlprnft> no, but I can't use a font in arma that displays that at a random character
18:24 <n54> nice pun
18:24 <n54> displays what at a random character?
18:24 <n54> as?
18:24 <n54> even so...
18:24 <wrtlprnft> it displays ""
18:24 <wrtlprnft> it displays "^" as "typodermic"
18:24 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: anythings I should pay attention to when adding a movie pack
18:24 <n54> ^is not random, unused characters should use a square
18:25 <joda_bot> btw. I uploaded the download button stuff to www.armagetron.nixda.net
18:25 <n54> depending
18:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: to the wiki ... should I first post it on the forums ?
18:25  * n54 really doesn't understand what wrtlprnft is saying, hopefully not too important ^^
18:26 <wrtlprnft> post it to the forums i guess
18:26 <wrtlprnft> ask people what they thing
18:26 <wrtlprnft> *think
18:26 <wrtlprnft> is there any reason not to have a bubble without JS?
18:27 <n54> hmm are you saying typodermic doesn't contain the glypg/character ^ wrtlprnft?
18:27 <wrtlprnft> yes, exactly
18:27 <n54> yay!
18:27 <wrtlprnft> or, it contains it, but it contains just the word "typodermic"
18:27 <n54> I get you now ^^
18:28 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:28  * n54 feels absurdly proud :D
18:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:28 <n54> it's a marketing gimmic from the font creators :)
18:29 <wrtlprnft> exactly
18:29 <n54> :)
18:29 <wrtlprnft> but I am free to delete it or move it somewhere else
18:29 <n54> :)
18:29 <wrtlprnft> I'll just move it to some random control char
18:30 <wrtlprnft> now, by what do i replace it?
18:31 <wrtlprnft> do you want it round or edgy?
18:31 <n54> pointy bit should be round if you get what I mean
18:31 <n54> but the stroke ends should be pointy as is the case with the other glyphs
18:32 <n54> imo of course :)
18:32 <n54> or rather; squared off
18:32 <n54> stroke ends that is
18:32 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: the button can be done  php no problem
18:33 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: doesn't even have to be PHP
18:33 <n54> compare to an inverted v if neccessry
18:33 <wrtlprnft> the button could just contain all three links
18:33  * wrtlprnft will just take the bottom of a v and scale and turn it
18:34 <n54> :)
18:34 <n54> careful with scaling though as it should probably have the same thickness
18:34 <n54> same line*
18:34 <n54> better crop etc.
18:34 <wrtlprnft> just scale it down a bit, but still cut it off
18:35 <n54> are you using fontforge wrtlprnft?
18:35 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:35 <n54> ok just curious
18:35 <n54> :)
18:35 <wrtlprnft> the ` is way thinner than normal lines as well
18:35 <n54> oh then it's ok
18:37 <wrtlprnft> hmm
18:38 <wrtlprnft> ends horizontal or diagonal?
18:38 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
18:38 <n54> I would say horizontal but well you might have to try and see if it feels right, might even end up with angled ends
18:39 <n54> horisontal can seem wrong on that one especially if it has a wide angled "point"
18:39 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/typodermic1.png
18:39 <wrtlprnft> that's how it looks right now
18:39 <n54> yeah that looks good
18:40 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:40 <n54> :)
18:40 <wrtlprnft> then, on to ~...
18:40 <n54> tilde :)
18:40  * n54 wonders if that could be a girls name somewhere
18:41 <n54> tilde end ellipsis ( ~and ... )
18:41 <spidey> #ping
18:41 <armabot> pong
18:41 <n54> and*
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #g 776-724
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 776 - 724 = 52
18:41  * n54 should have written it as this of course; tiled ampersand ellipsis ( ~& ... )
18:41 <wrtlprnft> so the line must be 52 units wide :)
18:42 <n54> tilde*
18:42 <n54> ok :)
18:42 <n54> <-- hypertension *treis to calm down*
18:44 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034184214.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:45 <wrtlprnft> stupid thing...
18:45 <wrtlprnft> why must this font use cubic splines?
18:47  * wrtlprnft feels stupid
18:47 <wrtlprnft> all those chars with a tilde over them are just sitting there!
18:47 <n54> because it's easy?
18:47  * wrtlprnft goes for copy and paste :D
18:47 <n54> :)
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18:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/typodermic2.png
18:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:51 <wrtlprnft> that completes ASCII
18:52 <n54> hmm well I would actually consider change that tilde, although it might be hard
18:52 <n54> more like a "pushed-over" s if you get what I mean
18:52 <wrtlprnft> ~
18:53 <wrtlprnft> you mean with the ends being horizontal?
18:53 <n54> but there might be other pre-existing characters that also break what seems the norm for the font so....
18:53 <n54> yup
18:53 <wrtlprnft> hmm, later, once we actually get font resources :)
18:53 <n54> S <-- just like this but rotated 90 degrees ccw and flipped horisontally
18:53 <n54> ok :)
18:54 <wrtlprnft> but i think the ends shouldn't go inwards...
18:55 <n54> yes, sorry, I probably use arial or something here
18:55 <wrtlprnft> let's first write this guy a friendly mail and just ask if what i plan to do is ok with him and his license :)
18:55 <n54> should definetly not go invards :)
18:55 <n54> :)
18:55 <n54> and if not you've still got great fontforge practice :)
18:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, not that much
18:56 <wrtlprnft> just ~200 chars
18:57 <n54> :)
19:01 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewforum.php?f=47
19:02 <n54> ??
19:02 <n54> ooh cool
19:02 <n54> smart reordering
19:05 <wrtlprnft> uh, twice?
19:05 <wrtlprnft> but i like it :)
19:13 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/60825
19:13 <wrtlprnft> someone wanna proofread that?
19:13 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know about other countries, but for the US anyway, font files are copywrite material, but fonts themselves are not
19:13 <wrtlprnft> well, we'd have it as a truetype font that gets used for rendering
19:13 <Lucifer_arma> so if you remake the file yourself as an "interpretation" of his font, you're fine.  If you copy his font file without his permission, sorry.
19:14 <n54> hmm it's the same as for games? *doesn't know*
19:14 <wrtlprnft> I won't remake the whole thing
19:14  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know either
19:14 <wrtlprnft> but read the license, it *should* be free enought for use as an external resource
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> because if you play someone else's song, you owe a royalty.  If you record it, you owe a royalty, but your recording gets your copywrite
19:15 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
19:16 <n54> I know games aren't copyrighteable under us law (only game artwork and possibly the code but not the _game_ itself)
19:16 <wrtlprnft> you mean the concept?
19:16 <n54> but I would have thought that font's go under the category art
19:16 <wrtlprnft> so, any feedback?
19:16 <n54> yup, even rules
19:16 <wrtlprnft> if not I'll send it
19:16 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:16 <n54> send it and hear him/her/them out :)
19:17 <n54> fonts*
19:17 <wrtlprnft> http://www.typodermic.com/about.html
19:17 <wrtlprnft> it's a him
19:17 <n54> ok
19:18 <wrtlprnft> btw the name seems to come from NASA
19:19 <LuciEatsPeople> got a link for the license?
19:19 <n54> it's a pun on both nasa and nasal anda nasalization
19:19 <n54> and*
19:19 <n54> (french is an example of a language with lots of nasalization)
19:20 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/license.html
19:21 <n54> btw I've had a look at amazons honor system Lucifer, 2.9% might be a bit steep? *not sure*
19:21 <wrtlprnft> LuciEatsPeople: LuciEatsPeople 
19:22 <LuciEatsPeople> a) Do not alter in any way alphanumeric characters (A-Z, a-z, 1-9) contained in the font.  <--- this makes it not gpl-compatible, imo
19:22 <wrtlprnft> LuciEatsPeople: i know
19:22 <LuciEatsPeople> n54: I have a highlighter that looks for luci now :)
19:22 <wrtlprnft> but there's no need for it to be GPL if it just sits on Luke-Jr's repository, right?
19:23 <LuciEatsPeople> right.  You can distribute non-gpl stuff alongside gpl stuff.
19:23 <wrtlprnft> but not in the same package
19:23 <LuciEatsPeople> nobody's going to kill us if we included it in the game, I don't think.  The only technical point that I can think of is that it couldn't be used by default.
19:23 <LuciEatsPeople> yeah, maybe not in the same package, but our installer could call the other package's installer if its present
19:24 <wrtlprnft> the question is, does it conflict with the inclusion in software thing?
19:24 <n54> ah ok Luci :)
19:24 <LuciEatsPeople> but personally I'd rather not include it with the game anyway.  I'd like people that get the game to feel free to modify and use any/all of it so long as they honor the GPL.
19:24 <LuciEatsPeople> otoh, if you build your own, it's yours.  :)
19:24 <wrtlprnft> this isn't about direct inclusion
19:25 <n54> I actually do agree with Luci, but lets hear what the creator says, perhaps he digs gpl
19:25 <wrtlprnft> it's about putting it on the repository and making it an option
19:25 <LuciEatsPeople> well, stick it on Luke-Jr's resource repository, and we can stick it on CDs too, afaic.
19:25 <LuciEatsPeople> I dont' object to a CD that says "The core armagetronad package is GPL, but the other stuff may not be yadayada"
19:25 <n54> yup
19:25 <wrtlprnft> like, once we have a user interface to select things from the repository this font could be an options
19:26 <wrtlprnft> -s
19:26 <LuciEatsPeople> and if he says we can have it under the GPL, then fine, include it with the game.  :)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> that UI would get the list from the server, so there is no reference in the actual package
19:26 <LuciEatsPeople> I don't think we could put it on sourceforge without his permission to use it under an open source license
19:26 <n54> absolutely not
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> right, we're fine for pretty much everything that matters--so long as you don't want to include it with the game.
19:27 <n54> would conflict on sf's part
19:27  * wrtlprnft is still not talking about GPL
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> His license is quite generous for a font-maker's.  :)
19:27 <wrtlprnft> LuciEatsPeople: that's exactly what i mean
19:27 <wrtlprnft> you can edit most of it, and you can copy it as you like
19:28 <wrtlprnft> that thing almost qualifies for GFDL IMHO
19:28 <n54> it's a very normal license for pr releases actually
19:28 <wrtlprnft> and GFDL should be sf- compatible
19:28 <LuciEatsPeople> right, so we're fine for pretty much everything, and I don't think we have to worry terribly about fine points, just as long as we remember not to include it with the game or put it on sf's repository
19:28 <n54> almost but not quite ;)
19:28 <wrtlprnft> it's the application thing that's annoying about it
19:28 <LuciEatsPeople> n54: the free font licenses I've seen have been very restrictive
19:29 <wrtlprnft> that breaks gfdl compatibility
19:29 <n54> yeah, that might get into ftgl trouble
19:29 <n54> + too
19:29 <wrtlprnft> n54: ftgl trouble?
19:29 <n54> well I would consider ftgl a program...
19:29 <wrtlprnft> it won't be included
19:29 <n54> so we'aere into hairsplitting territory there
19:30 <LuciEatsPeople> ?  ftgl is reading  it.  Just like you can listen to proprietary closed source music in your media player
19:30 <wrtlprnft> not all of it, thanks to DRM bs
19:30 <n54> yup but isn't it also creating?
19:30 <LuciEatsPeople> DRM is incompatible with copywrite, but really, I need to get back to dinner
19:30 <wrtlprnft> n54: it's converting
19:30 <wrtlprnft> the license allows that
19:30 <n54> ok
19:31 <n54> hehe enjoy dinner Luci :)
19:31 <wrtlprnft> hf LuciEatsPeople 
19:31  * wrtlprnft didn't buy any music in years
19:32 <n54> I "bought" a free cd download on-drm'ed ogg album, oh and later on I bought a used cd of FFF (evil sony)
19:32  * n54 hasn't actually played that cd yet
19:32 <n54> non-drm'ed*
19:33 <n54> that's about all for a few years iirc ^^
19:33 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:34 <wrtlprnft> supper
19:34 -!- You're now known as WrtlEatsLuci
19:35 <n54> how homoerotic of you ^^ j/k
19:53 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
19:54 <wrtlprnft> hmm, he tasted nice! *burp*
19:55 <n54> lol
19:55 <n54> another scary german cannibal ^^
19:56 <n54> ok that was a tasteless joke (no pun intended!)
19:56  * n54 apologizes
19:57 <joda_bot> I guess, they really will call it scary if he was able to eat lucifer in texas from canada
19:57 <n54> good point
19:57 <n54> could make a great comic book storyline
19:57 <n54> or horror movie
19:58 <n54> a tele-ghoul :S
19:58 <wrtlprnft> http://electricpotential.net/graphicblog/
19:58 <wrtlprnft> nice new pictures :)
19:58 <n54> :)
19:58 <joda_bot> n54: I bet the MCP fetched lucifer onto the grid and wrtlprnft consumed him there ;)
19:58 <n54> :)
20:00 <wrtlprnft> although some of them are questionabke
20:00 <wrtlprnft> *questionable
20:00 <n54> yup, but it _is_ a blog ^^
20:01 <wrtlprnft> http://electricpotential.net/graphicblog/images/ibolympics.png
20:01 <wrtlprnft> i like that one :)
20:01 <n54> :)
20:02  * wrtlprnft is on the grid, if anyone needs him
20:04 <joda_bot> gn8
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20:58 <spidey> wow
20:58 <spidey>  thought it was 9am :/
20:59 <spidey> i really need to get my sleep patterns normal,heh
20:59 <n54> :)
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21:13 <spidey> that was fun
21:13 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:14 <spidey> dunno lol
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21:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: LuciEatsPeople: there is no "Luke-Jr's repository"-- it's just "the [official] resource repository"
21:32 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@] has joined #armagetron
21:34 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I know what it is, I don't need to be corrected.
21:35 <spidey> luuci
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> spiiiideeeeeeeey
21:37 <spidey> come to cvs :p
21:39 <spidey> i got 18 points ...team goold has 28
21:39 <spidey> and i'm on gold :/
21:40 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: yes, but you host it
21:40 <wrtlprnft> and i have never heard anyone but you calling it official ;)
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> I wen t there, spidey
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:51  * Lucifer_arma always chuckles when he uses a newly-built arma in a build directory because it uses his username on his laptop, which isn't Lucifer
21:51 <n54> btw I looked over the gforge main page, not sure what to make of it really
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> it's Sourceforge CVS right before 3.0 forked and under development for awhile after that
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> the company sells consulting services.  My main client hired them to setup a gForge installation for them awhile back.
21:52 <n54> ok, obsd is actually working on a cvs fork a well but I'm not familiar with it, some fundamental changes though afaik
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> <-- got to hack on it, it was fun :)
21:52 <n54> ok :)
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the guy that founded gForge is the same guy that wrote most of the sourceforge software, and when VALinux decided to close up the source, he quit and forked and founded his company
21:53 <n54> smart guy
21:53 <n54> I have lots of happy feelings for sf as of old but always been slightly sceptical to VALinux
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :)  GNU also forked it into their Savane project which powers Savannah.  I think there's at least one more fork floating around.
21:54 <n54> ok so we're up to three big ones so far gforge, savannah, opencvs :)
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> Savane and gForge worked independently of one another and unknowningly.
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> Hmm, wait, I thought you said obsd had a fork of cvs?  CVS the program?
21:55 <n54> yup OpenCVS iirc
21:55  * n54 looks it up
21:56 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:56 <n54> http://www.opencvs.org/
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I'm talking about the Sourceforge software.  CVS in that sentence meant "The code that was in cvs right before the 3.0 release of Sourceforge"
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> the service sourceforge.net is also available as a product, if you have enough money, that you can use for your own projects
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> that's what gForge is a fork of.
21:57 <n54> oh yeah sorry, I did get you but sort of didn't think straight
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> That's why gForge kinda looks like sourceforge.  :)
21:57 <n54> :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> code's not compatible with sourceforge's anymore, I'm sure.  And gForge and Savane worked without knowledge of each other until it was too late to combine efforts.
21:58 <n54> yup I did make the connection to the pay-for sf
21:58 <n54> yeah probably
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> Apparently they talked about combining efforts anyway and trashing one of the projects, but then figured they may as well just continue and compete
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> recent versions of gForge and gForge's commercial interest might have something to do with pushing sourceforge development.  I sure hope so.  :)
21:59 <n54> if I were to set up cvs I would probably choose OpenCVS anyway
21:59 <n54> well it seems to me sf has sucked lately, even though I have very little to do with sf these days
22:00 <n54> or are you talking purely pay-for?
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> development of the software.  Surely you've noticed sourceforge has had several updates recently?  Reporting, project layout....
22:01 <spidey> hmm
22:01 <n54> yeah but the way they do it...
22:01 <n54> reporting started a few years ago btw iirc
22:02 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:02 <SD|away> good night ;)
22:02 <n54> cya :)
22:02 <n54> same with donations
22:05 <spidey> dude
22:05 <spidey> what exactly is prediction
22:06 <n54> more exactly than hinting at the area where a bike might actually be?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> basically drawing cycles on the tip of the lagometer instead of the centre
22:06 <spidey> everyone that uses it complains about lag and says it's harder to play,i set it to 1 and i got alot better
22:07 <spidey> i can atleast keep up with low pingers in a open grid fight
22:07 <n54> well there's no reason it should be the same for everyone, if it works for you it works for you :)
22:07 <wrtlprnft> prdiction on or off shouldn't matter that much, technically, as long as you understand and use the lagometer
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> there were changes in reporting, n54
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft:  problem.  :)
22:08 <wrtlprnft> there might be a psychological side that you can interpret the predicted cycle better than the lagometer
22:08 <spidey> swell,when i have it on,say zop he has a low ping,where i see him on my screen,he is there so if i try to kill him i don't hit his wall behind him
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> camera="^in" viewport="top"  <--- viewport overrides the camera setting here
22:08 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ?
22:08 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes, that's intended
22:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey: if it's off you can always use the tip of the lagometer
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> in multi-player, it makes sense to do that.
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.......
22:09 <spidey> don't matter
22:09 <spidey> he's not where he seems when it's off,i have to guess  :p
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that's not the problem, or I'm smoking something I shouldn't be.  The problem is that now I've got two maps on incam mode when I only want one.
22:09 <wrtlprnft> spidey: that's true
22:09 <wrtlprnft> spidey: you know what the lagometer (those small arrows) is for?
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> you have to play about half a second in the future, that's why I say "use the force"  :)
22:10 <spidey> just the bigger they are the more lag i have
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> what you see only tells you what was going on half a second ago, it says nothing about *now*
22:10 <wrtlprnft> spidey: the cycle can be anywhere within the arrow
22:10 <wrtlprnft> that's way more info than the prediction thing alone can give you
22:10 <spidey> yea
22:10 <spidey> i knew that
22:10 <wrtlprnft> if you have prediction on and lagometer off you lose
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> problem I have with prediction is that the cycles move too much when they turn
22:11 <spidey> yes
22:11 <spidey> it took me a minute to figure out
22:11 <n54> the more I think about it the more I think lag is what makes the game so exiting and fun
22:11 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you don't want that put the map in the player viewport...
22:11 <n54> steady lag that is of course
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> this is for the stock cockpit I'm doing this
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> my layout for incam (with captions and a rubber gauge), the regular stuff for other cam modes
22:12 <wrtlprnft> what do you do in multiplayer mode with one player in incam and one in smartcam?
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> so I can put it the other map in the player viewport, but that's going to result in 4 maps with 4 players.
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> The player in incam should see the map in his incam, it's part of the setup.  The player in smartcam should have his own map.
22:13 <spidey> well,i tried prediction on mbc(i have a 60-80 ping) and i suck with it on and win with it off,i use it on cvs ( 179-200+) i got better,all i need to know to use it :p
22:13 <wrtlprnft> :P
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> I got wasted every round when I had prediction on
22:13 <spidey> i did to
22:13 <spidey> when i first used it
22:13 <spidey> now when i turn it off i die
22:13 <wrtlprnft> just again, people who don't use the lagometer don't use their full potential
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> lemme give you a screenshot, wrtlprnft, so it'll make more sense
22:14  * Lucifer_arma doesn't use the lagometer
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, ummm, that's not accurate
22:14  * n54 never got used to it either
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> I don't *trust* the lagometer with what it's trying to tell me, but I use it to some extent
22:14 <wrtlprnft> you can't exactly trust the borders
22:14 <spidey> although i did lose a advantage when i started using it
22:14 <wrtlprnft> but it gives you about the area
22:15 <spidey> with it off i could cut through about ----- of the persons end of tail on the screen
22:15 <wrtlprnft> and there's still human reaction time, rubber and realworld lag
22:15 <spidey> with it on it kills me if i try
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/screenshot_8.png
22:15 <spidey> i only lag when it rains,uploading,or router goes gay
22:15 <wrtlprnft> it = prediction or it = lagometer?
22:16 <spidey> downloading never really affacts me
22:16 <spidey> it = prediction
22:16 <spidey> god lucifer
22:16 <spidey> how do you pay like that?
22:17 <spidey> play*
22:17 <spidey> lol
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: so the idea is that by placing the map where I put it, you can see it in incam and actually use it
22:17  * Lucifer_arma sees that he needs to remove one of the clocks :)
22:17 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you want to get something sensible out of it put the map into the player viewport...
22:17 <wrtlprnft> it's never gonna make sense in multiplayer anyways
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok
22:18 <wrtlprnft> btw GLTron has multiple maps too
22:18 <wrtlprnft> it makes sense, too
22:19 <wrtlprnft> if you're in the top viewport there's no view you'll be able to look into the bottom right corner
22:19 <wrtlprnft> s/view/way
22:20 <wrtlprnft> spidey: if you wonder how Lucifer_arma can play like that you
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> now I just need the map to change so that it always centers my cycle's mark, zooms in so that it shows a larger area around my actual cycle,
22:20 <wrtlprnft> 've never seen my cockpit :P
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> and keep the thing pointed up.  :)  So my cycle dot should be in the middle pointing up.
22:20 <wrtlprnft> that should ideally be settings- based
22:21 <wrtlprnft> we already have cockpit keys, you could use those for zooming
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: I use smartcam, but that's my cockpit there.  I want to make it the default incam for 0.3.  It's both part of showing off the cockpit and also an attempt to make incam more playable
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> I want it to stay zoomed in to a set rate.  I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have zoom control on the map, though.
22:22 <wrtlprnft> hmm, maybe make the zoom rate a tValue param?
22:22 <wrtlprnft> so you could set it to a facor of current_speed or max_speed
22:22 <wrtlprnft> or fastest_speed
22:23 <wrtlprnft> + keys to choose a factor
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm thinking HUD like a hud in a fighter jet
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> and the map is supposed to be something resembling radar, then, which doesn't strike me as something you'd have zooming
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> I don't object to having another map placed somewhere as a tactical display, but the two really need to look a lot more different
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I think I've got it :)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> two maps, one that's exactly what you have there, and one that's the zoomed in view
22:28 <n54> so the armahud support "split" hud i.e. cockpit "background" and a hud that follows head movemnt?
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> and a toggle to switch maps
22:28 <n54> supports* (getting early here)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> hud won't follow head movement without VR goggles :)
22:29 <n54> I was thinking glance keys ;)
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> mmmm, wrtlprnft ?  This sounds promising :)
22:29  * n54 tried to mention it before here but well it probably wasn't the right time then :)
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> was it before wrtlprnft rewrote the hud?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: give the map some config options and you're set :)
22:30 <n54> might have been just before or during
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> :)  I take it the zooming and orientation have yet to be coded?  When I last suggested it (fairly recently) you said as much...
22:30 <wrtlprnft> The HUD map/radar should turn with the camera, if anything
22:31 <wrtlprnft> sure they have to
22:31 <n54> yup, the deal would be to make the cockpit not do the same with cockpit view
22:32 <wrtlprnft> A start would be to make the map always be turned so the direction in which you started is upwards
22:32 <wrtlprnft> it's confusing for def that sometimes your zone is at the top and sometimes at the bottom
22:33 <spidey> mmmm waffles and suasage at 10:30pm tastes so much better
22:33 <spidey> :>
22:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: turning shouldn't be hard at all, zooming is more complicated
22:33 <n54> that's an eccentric combo isn't it? waffles and sausage?
22:33 <wrtlprnft> since for zooming you
22:33 <wrtlprnft> 'll probably have to cut the map off
22:34  * wrtlprnft should stop confusing his shift key with his return key
22:34  * n54 wonders if spidey wraps the waffle around the sausage
22:34 <spidey> [
22:34 <n54> *just curious, not judgemental'
22:38 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:38 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:38 <n54> cya :)
22:39 <spidey> anyway
22:39 <spidey> no n54 i don't :p
22:39 <spidey> we get these maple covered sausages
22:39 <n54> maple syrup+
22:39 <n54> ?
22:39 <spidey> yea
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> sausage and waffles are a good combination
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> damn europeans
22:46  * Lucifer_arma mutters something about European breakfasts
22:46 <n54> american waffles must be something different than waffles around here
22:46 <spidey> ?
22:47 <spidey> waffles and pancakes
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> <spidey> mmmm waffles and suasage at 10:30pm tastes so much better
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> let's see, waffles.  You take basically pancake batter and stick it in a waffle iron, right?
22:50 <spidey> yea...
22:50 <spidey> yes
22:50 <spidey> basically 2 sided frying pan :p
22:50 <n54> ok that explains it to me as long as you're talking about american style pancakes :)
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> we have generic waffle irons, and then there are belgian waffle irons available.  The generic standard american waffles are square,
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> belgian waffle makers are round.  I have no idea if belgian waffle makers sold here actually resemble what belgians really eat.
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, american style pancakes.  milk, flour, butter, basically.
22:51 <n54> not sure about that, here in norway they're round and soft (four heart-shaped segments with typical waffle squares inside)
22:52 <n54> american style pancakes are very thick and heavy compared to most european ones
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> people like 'em in varying degrees of hardness.  :)  I like some crusty with a soft inside, myself
22:52 <n54> but sure yummy ;)
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> Roger that!
22:53 <n54> but european ones are too :) ( and in hungary they serve them with chocolate or icecream, truly yummy lol) :D
22:53 <spidey> icecream on waffles?
22:53 <n54> no, on thin european pancakes
22:53 <spidey> my grandma said they used to do that in the old days here
22:53 <n54> not heavy at all
22:54 <n54> ok
22:54 <n54> actually on norwegian style waffles icecream could do well although strawberry jam or goat cheese or ordinary hard yellow cheese is most usual
22:55 <n54> or sliced sausage or anything you like really:)
22:55 <spidey> :)
22:55 <n54> :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> you guys do maple syrup much?  I've always been under the impression that's a uniquely american thing, or at least originated that way.
22:57 <spidey> i love maple syrup on suasage xD
22:57 <spidey> and biscuits
22:57 <n54> yeah it's pretty much unique to northern america afaik, I'e eaten it at a denny's (or danny's? forgot which is the right name for the chain) in singapore
22:57 <n54> :)
22:58 <spidey> should try IHOP
22:58 <spidey> :p
22:58 <spidey> 1 plate
22:58 <spidey> isn't small,trust me
22:58 <n54> no idea what ihop is :)
22:58 <spidey> innernational house of pancakes :p
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> it's where pretentious people eat breakfast ;)
22:59 <n54> heh :)
22:59 <spidey> i ate there once
22:59 <n54> but is it dennys or dannys?
22:59 <spidey> i was on the truck with my uncle,they server huge plates :/
22:59 <spidey> dennys
22:59 <spidey> i think
22:59 <spidey> luci?
22:59 <n54> thanks :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the sucky place
23:00 <spidey> lmao
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> actually, when we lived in Seattle there was a Denny's nearby that was actually good.  I was shocked.
23:00 <n54> wasn
23:00 <n54> wasn't anything wrong with the one in singapore
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> now I wonder if they were just good in comparison to what was otherwise available.  :(
23:00 <spidey> i dunno i haven't been out to eat eccept once,my uncle and cousins went to a chinese restuarant
23:00 <spidey> i ate mcdonalds in there....
23:00 <spidey> :/
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that I'd eat chinese food in Tennessee, heh
23:01 <spidey> i didn't
23:01 <spidey> i ate mcdonalds at the place though :p
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I try not to eat it in Texas, but my in-laws love PF Chang's for some reason.  Chinese food for white people is all that is.  Sucks.
23:01 <spidey> when i was in texas
23:01 <spidey> there was this place that has fucking huge hamburgers
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> Dan's?  :)
23:02 <spidey> starts with a W i think
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> Whataburger?
23:02 <spidey> blue building?
23:02 <spidey> yes that's it
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> no, Whataburger has orange stripes
23:02 <spidey> oh
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> man, Whataburger is The Suck.
23:02 <spidey> i loved it
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> mmmm, I'm biased.  I hate hamburgers.
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> and they don't pay for shit, even for a burger place.
23:02 <spidey> i got 1 double hamburger
23:03 <spidey> i ate it for lunch
23:03 <spidey> and supper :/
23:03 <n54> hmm have you got kebabs over there on the other side of the pond?
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> k-bob's?  Steakhouse?
23:03 <spidey> no
23:03 <n54> lol no, ok :)
23:03 <spidey> it's a stick covered in meat
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> shishkebabs?  (sp?)
23:04 <spidey> yes but we call 'em shishkeobs or soemthing
23:04 <n54> it's a form of shishkebabs yes
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> skewers more often than not :)
23:04 <spidey> yea uci got it :p
23:04  * spidey hates this keyboard
23:04 <n54> europeanized you could say
23:04 <n54> kebab that is
23:05 <spidey> i know they're in england
23:05 <n54> like american deep pan is very different from italian pizza
23:05 <spidey> there's this fish fast food place
23:05 <spidey> long john silvers
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> good shrimp :)
23:05 <spidey> man that shits soo greasy i got sick :/
23:05  * Lucifer_arma managed to work at Long John Silver's once
23:06  * spidey loves shrimp
23:06 <spidey> there's this place up here ryans
23:06 <spidey> it's a good restuarant
23:06 <spidey> they got killer shrimp =p~
23:06 <n54> hehe you're meant to wipe off the grease and lett the paper suck it up :)
23:07 <spidey> mmm
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> we've got Ryan's, they're a chain.  I dont' think I've eaten there, though.
23:07 <n54> with fish'n'chips :)
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> ?  no, you eat the grease too
23:07 <spidey> luci > expensive, but good
23:07 <spidey> like $14 a person here
23:08 <spidey> all you can eat though....
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> I don't eat at chain restaurants if I can help it, sorry.
23:08 <spidey> lol
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> there are a few, but not many.  Rudy's BBQ is one.  :)  But they're a Texas chain, afaik not outside Texas yet
23:08 <spidey> afiak?
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> I like little mom and pop restaurants.  Food's more genuine, service is more personal, and prices are usually better.
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> afaik = as far as I know
23:09 <spidey> ah
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> I wanna eat at a place so genuine where if the family recipe calls for 12 ounces of budweiser piss out of a mexican dick, I'll get 12 ounces of budweiser piss out of a mexican dick
23:10 <n54> 0611 I've got to try to sleep or I'll be up all day :S cya :) (and yuck! lol)
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23:12 <spidey> meh,brb i'm late on a payment :/
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> let me know how it comes out
23:13 <spidey> you gotta be shitting me
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> ?
23:15 <spidey> paypal won't clear the withdrawl till the 5th
23:15 <spidey> i took it out 2 days ago
23:15 <spidey> and the payment's due today :(
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> oh, you were serious about being late on a payment
23:16 <spidey> 'er i think
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha, I thought you said you were taking a shit :)
23:16 <spidey> yea :p
23:16 <spidey> no,lol
23:16 <spidey> i pay for
23:16 <spidey> a game server on a 1gig connection and 32 slots
23:16 <spidey> $56 a month for cablr
23:17 <spidey> cable* and 2 $10 hosting pacakges
23:25 <spidey> hahaha
23:26 <spidey> they got life fucked up
23:26 <spidey> they charged me to switch from dallas to destriot servers cause there servers keep going offline for days at a time
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Log from 2006-06-02:
--- Day changed Fri Jun 02 2006
00:04 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:14 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873C94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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02:04 <guru3> god make the bot shutup about notes :/
02:04 <guru3> i catch it when you say my name while away
02:04 <guru3> no need to note me to death
02:05 <z-man-home> #later tell guru3 don't be silly :)
02:05 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
02:05 <guru3> noooo!
02:07 -!- z-man-work [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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02:38 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 what's wrong with notes?  You could miss something, or maybe you're not here for awhile...
02:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:39 <guru3> the odds i'm not here when someone notes me
02:39 <guru3> is tiny
02:39 <guru3> i'm never gone for more than like 5 minutes
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> oddly enough, you're not usually here when I am :)
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rootrainers.co.uk/supplies/rooterpot  <-- that's crazy!
02:45 <guru3> i'm online
02:45 <guru3> my client catches any messages
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06:23 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: sure, and I maintain it-- but that could change, just like the wiki has passed hands
06:40 <n54> #notes
06:40 <armabot> n54: I currently have notes waiting for a*, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
--- Log opened Fri Jun 02 07:14:50 2006
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07:36 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: If I use svn , i just prepend my user name to the svn url ?
07:36 <joda_bot> like https://user@svn...
07:39 <wrtlprnft> no, just leave it be i think
07:39 <wrtlprnft> it'll ask for a login once you committ
07:39 <joda_bot> ah ok
07:41 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Still have to find a nice way of transfering the cvs workspace  (with uncommited files) to svn ;)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> copy over the changed files?
07:41 <wrtlprnft> a pain, i know
07:42 <joda_bot> I'm still researching Eclipe for a way to do it
07:43 <joda_bot> Currently I found "Share Project" but then Eclipse wants to commit all stuff to the svn repos
07:43 <joda_bot> that's not what I want ;)
07:45 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: does SVN create SVN subdirectories like CVS ?
07:45 <wrtlprnft> uh, cd cvsworkspace; tar -cvf - `cvs update | grep '^M' | awk '{print $2}'` | (cd svnworkspace; tar -xvf -)
07:45 <wrtlprnft> yes it does
07:45 <joda_bot> ah does not matter ... I'll just do the double check out ;)
07:46 <joda_bot> but that requires working CVS access ?
07:46 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: CVS is still up readonly
07:46 <wrtlprnft> and i think it'll stay up
07:46 <joda_bot> ah ok
07:46 <wrtlprnft> g2g, bb in 30 minutes hopefully
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08:16 <wrtlprnft> back :)
08:16 <wrtlprnft> exactly 30 minutes
08:20 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
08:20  * Self_Destructo is shook upreally bad
08:21  * Self_Destructo lost his job
08:21 <spidey> wb
08:21 <spidey> :/
08:22 <wrtlprnft> why?
08:23  * wrtlprnft understands if you don't want to tell us
08:23 <Self_Destructo> he's not patient enough with me is why
08:23 <wrtlprnft> :(
08:24 <Self_Destructo> i guess my idea of work is to be doing something, not to stand there and watch someone else do it
08:24 <spidey> kick his ass?
08:24 <Self_Destructo> so i really couldn't adapt i guess
08:24 <Self_Destructo> spidey: more like grab a shotgun and shoot hom
08:24 <Self_Destructo> him*
08:24 <spidey> good enough :)
08:24 <Self_Destructo> lol
08:25 <wrtlprnft> if he doesn't want you to work, why do you try to?
08:25 <wrtlprnft> just stand there and watch someone lese do it
08:25 <Self_Destructo> well, it's not that I try, I'm just very bored standing there watching someone
08:26 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: all i have known is to work
08:26 <spidey> get a job at cox or comcast,they pay alot here so i'm sure it's more there,plus free internet :)
08:26 <Self_Destructo> so it was hard, but i was trying
08:26 <Self_Destructo> i guess it wasn't good enough, but oh well, doesn't matter now
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09:07 <joda_bot> Self_Destructo: What kind of job was it ?
09:07 <joda_bot> If it's ok for me to ask
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09:53 <spidey> gimp is just about as good as paintshop pro
10:57 <Self_Destructo> joda_bot: pump work - water well systems
10:58 <joda_bot> spidey: better ;)
10:58 <joda_bot> spidey: It's close to photoshop is most regards
10:58 <joda_bot> at least the older versions of photoshop
10:59 <joda_bot> Self_Destructo: hm, can't imagine why quick work is wrong if you knew what you've been doing
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11:11 <H> hi
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11:12 <HAK> hi
11:12 <HAK> hi
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11:15 <wrtlprnft> gimp rocks :) The only thing it misses is effect layers
--- Log closed Fri Jun 02 11:17:44 2006
--- Log opened Fri Jun 02 11:18:41 2006
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11:39 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: just curious, what is that satanist branch/whatever of yours for?
11:51 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Why are there two options imposter and impostors ?
11:51 <joda_bot> just because you can spell it both ways ?
11:53 <wrtlprnft> yes, i guess so
11:54 <wrtlprnft> they both link to the same variable
11:54 <wrtlprnft> so if you change one, the other one gets changed, too
11:54 <wrtlprnft> hard-linked :)
11:56  * wrtlprnft thinks the help strings should point that out
12:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: hehe ;)
12:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'm still merging my old team code to current b0_2_8
12:00 <joda_bot> and then to head
12:01 <joda_bot> and then to svn head :|
12:19 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: any chance to proof read all language files ?
12:19 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: and fixing a mistake in a b0_2_8 branch probably requires fixing it in a lot of other branches
12:20 <joda_bot> deutsch.txt:
12:20 <joda_bot> cycle_invulnerable_time_help 
12:20 <joda_bot> cycle_wall_time_help 
12:20 <joda_bot> replace Weidererscheinen by Wiedererscheinen
12:23 <joda_bot> I saw another typo but can't recall where (english / deutsch.txt)
12:34 <joda_bot> ok, swtich to head was painless ... no major merges
12:34 <joda_bot> AFAIK
13:04 <joda_bot> damn after copying all files over ... sublipse (svn for Eclipse)  is not able to clean all timestamps of the files
13:05 <joda_bot> thus all files are marked modified
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13:19 <wrtl_web_broken> joda_bot: I'm in shool right now, I'll fix it when i get home
13:20 <wrtl_web_broken> joda_bot: That's why i gave you that untested command
13:20 <wrtl_web_broken> only copy over what you changed
13:23 <joda_bot> I noticed ;)
13:24 <joda_bot> wrtl_web_broken: too late ;)
13:24 <joda_bot> ah, well I can reimport the CVS project into eclipse and just check it
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14:22 <philippeqc> hi
14:27 <n54> hi :)
14:28 <philippeqc> how are you
14:31 <n54> exhausted but doing ok, how about you? :)
14:31 <philippeqc> exhausted too. 
14:32 <philippeqc> happy its a 4 days week-end
14:32 <n54> :)
14:35 <philippeqc> on thusday its the national day (of Sweden)
14:35 <philippeqc> I'm invited to the town house
14:35 <n54> ooh
14:35 <philippeqc> I got my Swedish citizenship last year, and now it is the celebration of all the new Swedes ;)
14:36 <philippeqc> It would be really cool if the King was there, but I'm sure he is boocked tight that day ;)
14:38 <n54> :)
14:39 <joda_bot> philippeqc: Where are you from ?
14:39 <joda_bot> philippeqc: If you got swedish citizenship ?
14:39 <philippeqc> Montreal Quebec Canada
14:39 <joda_bot> ah
14:39 <joda_bot> interesting, what made you leave canada ?
14:40 <philippeqc> I was tired of it, tired of my life there. So I hitchhicked my way in France for over 2 months before I meet a nice Swedish girl.
14:43 <joda_bot> Cool, so you're live is better now ?
14:44 <joda_bot> Bet you didn't except this future for yourself... :-)
14:45 <philippeqc> Lol, well yes. I do think so. For me, the mentality of Canada was like 10-15 years in advance over the American one (in certain topics). And moving to Swede was like moving another 10-15 years more in the future.
14:45 <philippeqc> Nope, really not Sweden. I was hoping to meet a french girl actually.
14:45 <n54> :)
14:48 <joda_bot> :-)
14:48 <joda_bot> philippeqc: already updated to svn ?
14:48 <joda_bot> philippeqc: I'm currently trying to find out where my svn config file is ;)
14:48 <philippeqc> hummm, nope
14:48 <philippeqc> :(
14:49 <joda_bot> because I want to see to which files svn applies the EOL conversion (configured in the config)
14:49 <joda_bot> http://magic.aladdin.cs.cmu.edu/2006/03/01/end-of-line-conversion-in-subversion/
14:52 <philippeqc> maybe not tonight. I just wanted some fun coding, but I should really be in bed.
14:53 <joda_bot> hehe, yeah I will go to bed too after I finished my conversion to svn
14:54 <joda_bot> perhaps I'll try to compile my team workspace ;)
14:54 <philippeqc> team workspace?
14:54 <joda_bot> I really should commit the customizable teamname and some other minor fixes to HEAD
14:55 <joda_bot> Yeah I got two separate armagetronad checkouts
14:55 <joda_bot> one for anisotropic filtering and one for my team code ported to CVS HEAD now
14:57 <philippeqc> o ok. I'm also still working from a old cvs checkout. but I figured that it didnt matter. I guess the check-in I'll have to do next will be "keep the header of winzone.cpp, then replace all the code with this new chunk" or something VERY similar
14:59 <joda_bot> philippeqc: the problem is that you have to copy your files from the current cvs workspace over the svn checkout
14:59 <joda_bot> thus all files are marked as modified
15:00 <joda_bot> so you should only copy modified files over and then hand merge the changes
15:00 <joda_bot> I really like eclipse for this
15:00 <philippeqc> I'm telling you, my changes are extremely localised.
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15:00 <joda_bot> because it has a nice side-by-side mode
15:00 <joda_bot> philippeqc: Oh, I missed that ;)
15:02 <philippeqc> ~half of tValue.{cpp|h} will be updated, ~100% of winzone.{cpp|h}, and the parser's processing of zones.
15:07 <spidey> fucking a!!!!!111
15:08 <philippeqc> ?
15:09 <philippeqc> why are you fornicating with the first letter of the alphabet?
15:10 <spidey> i just woke up with a killer cramp in my leg 
15:10 <spidey> i did go through the wakeup/tired/awake phase,i jumped straight to awake
15:10 <philippeqc> ouch
15:10 <spidey> didn't*
15:15 <spidey> 1
15:17 <joda_bot> 2
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15:41 <philippeqc> lucifer: just found out about an e-book from Sony. The japanees model is called librie (check http://www.sven.de/librie/Librie/FAQ for links to 4 retaillers with some pics). The euro-american will be called  Portable Reader Systemspacer PRS-500 and be offered at ~300 USD. 
15:41 <philippeqc> #tell lucifer hi
15:41 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: I haven't seen lucifer, I'll let you do the telling.
15:42 <philippeqc> #tell Lucifer_arma  hi
15:42 <philippeqc> #tell Lucifer_arma Just found out about an e-book from Sony. The japanees model is called librie (check http://www.sven.de/librie/Librie/FAQ for links to 4 retaillers with some pics). The euro-american will be called  Portable Reader Systemspacer PRS-500 and be offered at ~300 USD. 
15:43 <philippeqc> Good night
15:43 <joda_bot> good night
15:43 <joda_bot> ;)
15:43 <joda_bot> recover from work ;)
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15:53 <Self_Destructo> wrtl_web_broken: you there?
15:54 <joda_bot> guess not
15:54 <Self_Destructo> well
15:54 <joda_bot> but by Murphy's law he will appear and contradict me ;)
15:54 <Self_Destructo> i need someone to take over my Rotator project
15:55 <Self_Destructo> because I'm leaving for an indefinate amount of time
15:55 <Self_Destructo> tommorrow will be my last day online
15:55 <joda_bot> Oh, because you lost your job ?
15:56 <joda_bot> Can you post or send wrtl all the data ?
15:57 <Self_Destructo> i'
15:58 <Self_Destructo> i'll do that later tonight i guess
15:58 <Self_Destructo> not really because i lost my job, just some other stuff i got to take care of
15:58 <joda_bot> Any chance to get back at times ?
15:58 <Self_Destructo> ?
15:58 <Self_Destructo> yes
15:58 <Self_Destructo> there is
15:58 <joda_bot> It's always sad to see someone who really helpsout go ;)
15:59 <Self_Destructo> i hate to go, I've got alot of really good freids i'm leaving
15:59 <Self_Destructo> including you
16:00 <Self_Destructo> g2g atm, cya
16:00 <joda_bot> well, Armagetron tends to eat up too much of my time too ... so I can understand if you need more time for yourself ;)
16:08 <wrtlprnft> cya Self_Destructo :(
16:09 <wrtlprnft> which adds something else on my todo stack
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16:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: just recruit another person ;)
16:10 <wrtlprnft> who? gnorty?
16:10 <joda_bot> hm , perhaps
16:10 <joda_bot> ed seems to know alot abot that too (atleast from the user end...)
16:11 <wrtlprnft> ed is great at graphics and stuff, but i dunno if he knows c++
16:12 <joda_bot> ah ok, I guess not
16:12 <joda_bot> i did not know Self_Destructo was implementing it ... just working on the concepts
16:14 <wrtlprnft> I kinda made the base for him and he was learning c++ anyways, so it might have been a good project
16:14 <wrtlprnft> just as the cockpit was my first bigger thing in arma ;)
16:15 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: btw. I read something about a remaining zone counter
16:16 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: if you implement something along those lines, can you check the performance costs for determining if a zone will collapse soon ?
16:16 <joda_bot> like zone is 50% captured => 0.5 zone ;)
16:16 <joda_bot> perhaps
16:16 <joda_bot> not sure
16:18 <joda_bot> or 5 of 10 zones undefended (no friendly player closer than enemy) ... but I really should have a look at that myself (probably)
16:18 <wrtlprnft> all those things would happen on the server...
16:18 <joda_bot> why ?
16:18 <wrtlprnft> because the client knows nothing
16:18 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: but it will show the zone spinning ?
16:18 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't even know which zone belongs to which team
16:18 <wrtlprnft> it knows the position, color, spin speed and size
16:19 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: hm, will this be fixed once phillipe's new zone and spawn point system is working right ?
16:19 <wrtlprnft> every way of getting the information you want out of those values would be a hack
16:19 <wrtlprnft> no clue, ask phillipe
16:19 <joda_bot> ok good to know
16:20 <wrtlprnft> sure you could compare the color of every zone to every team color
16:20 <joda_bot> lol
16:20 <joda_bot> won't work
16:20 <wrtlprnft> sure you could invert the function used on the server to calculate the spin speed of zones
16:20 <wrtlprnft> but any change on the server would totally throw that off
16:20 <wrtlprnft> it would work
16:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Do you think it's usefull to have an extra death message for team kills with negative scores ?
16:21 <joda_bot> e.g. team kill is awarded ?
16:21 <joda_bot> I got the stuff here in my workspace
16:22 <joda_bot> just not sure if it would be more confusing for players
16:22 <wrtlprnft> idn
16:22 <wrtlprnft> isn't that already the case?
16:22 <joda_bot> also have the customizable teamname's and different teamname selection scheme ready
16:23 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: no currently there is one message for a team kill
16:23 <joda_bot> and one for a free kill I guess
16:23 <wrtlprnft> uh, second
16:23 <joda_bot> my version adds...
16:23 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: sounds good :)
16:24 <joda_bot> score_die_help				Amount of points you get for being killed
16:24 <joda_bot> score_kill_help				Amount of points you get for killing someone
16:24 <joda_bot> *score_die_teammate_help		Amount of points you get for being killed by a teammate
16:24 <joda_bot> *score_kill_teammate_help	Amount of points you get for killing a teammate
16:24 <joda_bot> score_suicide_help			Amount of points you get for stupidly dying
16:24 <joda_bot> score_win_help				Amount of points your team gets for winning a round
16:24 <joda_bot> score_deathzone_help		Amount of points you get for hitting the Death Zone
16:24 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:24 <wrtlprnft> and there is a message when score_die_teammate_help is != 0
16:25  * wrtlprnft should get a better screenshot upload script
16:25 <wrtlprnft> currently it re- generates all thumbnails every time i upload
16:25 <wrtlprnft> and then rsyncs
16:26 <joda_bot> player_lose_suicide		\1 committed suicide and lost \2 points.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_free_suicide		\1 committed suicide.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_win_frag			\1 core dumped \3 for \2 points.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_free_frag		\1 core dumped \2.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_teamkill			\1 core dumped teammate \2! Boo! No points for that!\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_win_frag_ai		\1 got \2 points for core dumping an AI player.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_lose_frag		\1 lost \2 points since it caused a general protection fault.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_lose_rim		    \1 lost \2 points for trying to escape from the game grid.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_win_teamfrag			\1 core dumped it's own TEAM MATE \3 for \2 points.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_punish_teamfrag		\1 lost \2 points as punishment for killing it's TEAM MATE \3 !\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_win_teamfrag_ai		\1 got \2 points for core dumping a TEAM MATE AI player.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_punish_teamfrag_ai	\1 lost \2 points for core dumping a TEAM MATE AI player.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_lose_teamfrag		\1 lost \2 points since it was killed by it's own TEAM MATE.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> player_luckyloser_teamfrag	\1 gained \2 points since it was killed by it's own TEAM MATE.\n
16:26 <joda_bot> full table 
16:26 <joda_bot> of my messages
16:26 <joda_bot> only thing missing would be negative suicide score messsage
16:27 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=372
16:27 <wrtlprnft> that's how it currently looks
16:27 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: now you need a message for +/- 1 point (not points, but point) and 0 (boo! no points for that!)
16:28 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Does that really make sense ?
16:28 <joda_bot> I'm just sanitychecking the messages concept ;)
16:29 <joda_bot> If it does not make sense, well I can still scrap it
16:29 <joda_bot> I might also unify language items
16:29 <joda_bot> they all look a bit diverse to me right now
16:29 <wrtlprnft> maybe you can add a string for lost/won?
16:29 <joda_bot> heh, that might work too, and sounds easier
16:29 <joda_bot> add a parameter to each message
16:30 <joda_bot> and template the value that is being inserted
16:30 <joda_bot> "template"= translate
16:30 <wrtlprnft> like, make a message for lost 1 point, no points, gained a point, gained >1 points and lost >1 points
16:30 <wrtlprnft> and append it to every message
16:31 <wrtlprnft> then you'd have to rewrite them all in a way so it comes at the end of the sentence
16:31 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: for every language :|
16:31 <joda_bot> Not sure if that possible
16:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah :(
16:33 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: so you think it does not hurt to have it ?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> no, it doesn't, but it's lots of strings.
16:33 <joda_bot> heh, yeah
16:34 <joda_bot> I'll try to minize it
16:34 <wrtlprnft> and face it, "Player 1 lost 1 points" is a plain error
16:36 <joda_bot> point point
16:36 <joda_bot> points points
16:36 <joda_bot> win_points gains
16:36 <joda_bot> lose_points lost
16:36 <joda_bot> no_points no points for that.
16:36 <wrtlprnft> gains and lost?
16:36 <wrtlprnft> either gained and lost or gains and loses
16:38 <joda_bot> something like this and then template the other messages for it:
16:38 <joda_bot> player_suicide
16:38 <joda_bot> player_frag
16:38 <joda_bot> player_teamfrag
16:38 <joda_bot> player_frag_ai
16:38 <joda_bot> player_teamfrag_ai
16:38 <joda_bot> hm, might factor out team based frags
16:38 <joda_bot> teamsuicide ;)
16:39 <wrtlprnft> I'm afraid there is no really good solution for this, so go ahead :)
16:41 <joda_bot> multiples messages allow for easier translation but more translation work :|
16:42 <joda_bot> Where does "basename" come from ?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> from lucifers sound stuff
16:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Didn't you talk with Lucifer_arma about basename ?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> yes i did
16:43 <joda_bot> I don't have the function on windows :(
16:43 <joda_bot> Where is it from ?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> but i see no reason to actually use any library function
16:43 <wrtlprnft> does #ifdef WINDOWS work?
16:43 <joda_bot> huh ?
16:44 <joda_bot> guess not 
16:44 <joda_bot> I thought it was WIN32 ;)
16:44 <wrtlprnft> ok, WIN32 then
16:44 <wrtlprnft> i was just guessing
16:45 <wrtlprnft> then I'll just reimplement it :)
16:47 <joda_bot> huh ?
16:47 <joda_bot> I guess there is a function like that
16:47 <joda_bot> just have to find the windows equivalent
16:47 <wrtlprnft> doesn't matter, it's easier like that
16:47 <wrtlprnft> there's std::string, it has just the function i need
16:48 <joda_bot> can you tell me the line so I can compile or is it more complicated ?
16:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, eSoundMixer.cpp, search for basename
16:50 <joda_bot> sure got it 
16:50 <joda_bot> code::blocks send me there as it's a compile time error
16:51 <joda_bot> ah, just removed it ;)
16:51 <joda_bot> this allows me to compile and fix it later
16:57 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: fixed
17:10 <joda_bot> ok
17:11 <wrtlprnft> the fix works fine, so no need for some library function
17:11 <wrtlprnft> mac is probably different as well
17:14 <joda_bot> but mac is based on unix / posix
17:14 <joda_bot> Windows NT is not really based on that
17:15 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
17:15 <joda_bot> cu
17:15 <joda_bot> thx
17:17 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-184-18.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
18:23 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873C94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:25 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: new game mode
18:26 <Luke-Jr> not done yet
18:26 <Luke-Jr> I've explained the concept here a few weeks ago or so, so your logs lilely have details
18:29 <Luke-Jr> yet another one of my two-different-teams modes
18:32 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:42 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@] has joined #armagetron
18:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: are you here?
18:57 <joda_bot> quote: (00:17:38) wrtlprnft: g2g, cya
18:58 <joda_bot> it's now 02:00:00 for me
19:05 <Luke-Jr> anyone want to try the new game mode?
19:05 <Luke-Jr> it's on the public list as "CvS Test Server"
19:07 <Vanhayes> what kind of game?
19:08 <Vanhayes> what kind of game mode that is
19:19 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@] has quit ["-"]
19:31 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: incoming me
19:45 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: your server died
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #0  0x0000000000534fdc in tString::operator[] ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #1  0x00000000004b40cb in handle_chat ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #2  0x00000000004eb950 in nDescriptor::HandleMessage ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #3  0x00000000004ee33d in rec_peer ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #4  0x00000000004ef29e in sn_Receive ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #5  0x00000000004331ad in gGame::NetSync ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #6  0x0000000000433455 in gGame::GameLoop ()
19:45 <Luke-Jr> #7  0x00000000004220f9 in GameLoop ()
19:46 <Luke-Jr> #8  0x0000000000422302 in sg_EnterGameCore ()
19:46 <Luke-Jr> #9  0x0000000000422365 in sg_EnterGame ()
19:46 <Luke-Jr> #10 0x000000000042b8d0 in own_game ()
19:46 <Luke-Jr> #11 0x000000000043540c in sg_HostGame ()
19:46 <Luke-Jr> #12 0x00000000004080ef in main ()
19:46 <wrtlprnft> worthless without debug info
19:46 <Luke-Jr> o
19:46 <Luke-Jr> crap
19:46 <Luke-Jr> just killed it
19:46 <Luke-Jr> :x
19:46 <Luke-Jr> o well, back up and recording this time
19:47 <wrtlprnft> second, I'll check for that bug, see if it's possible with that info
19:47 <wrtlprnft> stupid gdb should give you at least the raw arguments!
19:48 <wrtlprnft> you can't make me a stackdump?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> no clue from that debug output, tString::operator[] gets called too often in handle_chat
19:50 <wrtlprnft> bb on your server in a bit
19:58 <joda_bot> did anyone modify the sortresources.py ?
19:59 <wrtlprnft> sub lost points for duming me?
19:59 <wrtlprnft> not me
20:00 <Luke-Jr> fixed
20:00 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: do you want me to send the rotator and dtd to you so you can work on it?
20:00 <Self_Destructo> i'm leaving for an indefinate amount of time
20:01 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:02 <wrtlprnft> yet another crash :(
20:02 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, sure, send it to me...
20:02 <wrtlprnft> it'll be a long while until i can work on it, though
20:02 <Luke-Jr> want me to send crash recordings? ;)
20:03 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> uh, sec
20:03 <wrtlprnft> i need to find out how to accept it on irsse
20:03 <wrtlprnft> i need to find out how to accept it on irssi
20:04 <Luke-Jr> heh
20:04 <Luke-Jr> /dcc?
20:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah, figured it out
20:04 <wrtlprnft> now it says 0%...
20:04 <Luke-Jr> hrm
20:04 <wrtlprnft> do i have to open some port?
20:05 <Luke-Jr> try now
20:05 <wrtlprnft> done :)
20:05 <wrtlprnft> now i just need to compile your server i guess
20:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, and i need to figure out where it put that file
20:08 <Vanhayes> crashed
20:09 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: sent the email
20:10 <joda_bot> hm
20:10 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: thanks
20:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: got any idea why I get a error running sortresources ?
20:11 <joda_bot>     # parse arguments
20:11 <joda_bot>     for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
20:11 <joda_bot>         # parse options
20:11 <joda_bot>         if arg[0] == "-":  <<<----- this line
20:11 <joda_bot>  " "
20:11 <joda_bot> Traceback (most recent call last):
20:11 <joda_bot>   File "sortresources.py", line 217, in ?
20:11 <joda_bot>     if arg[0] == "-":
20:11 <joda_bot> IndexError: string index out of range
20:11 <wrtlprnft> that means that the first argument is empty?
20:11 <wrtlprnft> at least i guess
20:11 <wrtlprnft> so
20:11 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: apparently it's someone trying to /smg
20:12 <Luke-Jr> /msg
20:12 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i can still be contacted via that email address.
20:12 <wrtlprnft> the only thing about python i know (after lots of practice) is how to spell it
20:12 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: :)
20:12 <joda_bot>         if len(arg)>0 and arg[0] == "-":
20:12 <joda_bot> ok fixed it
20:13 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: wow
20:14 <wrtlprnft> it crashes my server, too
20:15 <wrtlprnft> that would explain the random crashes i get
20:15 <Luke-Jr> lol
20:16 <wrtlprnft> (i can't have debug recordings or debug info on my server, it's already at its limits with ~6 players
20:16 <Luke-Jr> heh
20:16 <wrtlprnft> so i just get the crash with the restart in my logs
20:17 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't actually crash for me
20:17 <Luke-Jr> it just freezes
20:17 <Luke-Jr> I need to kill it
20:17 <wrtlprnft> oh, sh***
20:18 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: thanks for warning me
20:18 <wrtlprnft> it had already eaten 50% of my server's RAM
20:18 <wrtlprnft> which is critical, it would have crashed soon
20:18 <Luke-Jr> >_<
20:19 <wrtlprnft> that also explains those inexplicable server crashes i have
20:19 <Self_Destructo> Luke-Jr: continue working on my program despite the fact that I'll be gone
20:19 <Lucifer_arma> back, what did I miss?
20:19 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: i dunno... did you hear I am leaving?
20:20 <Lucifer_arma> leaving?  as in <what>?
20:20 <Luke-Jr> Self_Destructo: you'll be gone?
20:20 <Self_Destructo> for an indefinate amount of time
20:21 <Self_Destructo> probably the only contact will be my email address
20:21 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: fixed a bug in sortresources ;)
20:21 <Self_Destructo> sd@xzlclan.com
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> you mean leaving the game?  We call that "taking a break".  :)
20:22 <wrtlprnft> indefinite = about how long=
20:22 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:22 <wrtlprnft> a month? 6 months? a year? 5 years?
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> if he knew that, it would be definite
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> indefinite = unknown, undefined, etc.
20:23 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: aha
20:23 <wrtlprnft> i see
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm about to drink an indefinite amount of te
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> *tea
20:23 <wrtlprnft> it's requesting an index after the end of a string
20:23 <wrtlprnft> and then the next index
20:23 <Luke-Jr> o.o
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> the basename problem been fixed yet, does anybody know?
20:23 <wrtlprnft> and since that evil tString function autoexpands it goes ad infinitum
20:23 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes it is
20:24 <Luke-Jr> eek
20:24 <wrtlprnft> luckily it warns you in debug mode :)
20:24 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: it's more than a break
20:24 <wrtlprnft> Message: Message from char& tString::operator[](size_t) in ../../src/tools/tString.cpp:1140 : Auto-expanding string, this functionality will go away.
20:24 <Self_Destructo> or at least it might be
20:25 <wrtlprnft>                     while (current_place < msg.Len() && !isspace(msg[current_place])) {
20:25 <wrtlprnft>                         buffer_name[current_place]=msg[current_place];
20:25 <wrtlprnft>                         current_place++;
20:25 <wrtlprnft>                     }
20:25 <wrtlprnft> eek
20:25 <wrtlprnft> now i know why it's evil
20:26 <wrtlprnft> since it requests something after the length it gets expanded and the length gets bigger next time
20:26 <wrtlprnft> and so on
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> Self_Destructo: well, I don't know what to say.  Have fun on your break.  :)
20:26 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: from me, too
20:27 <Lucifer_arma> so I don't have to do anything more for basename?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: no, I replaced it by some homebrewn code
20:28 <wrtlprnft> that just returns everything after the last \ on windows and / on everything else
20:30 <Luke-Jr> does it work in the "/usr/bin/" case?
20:30 <wrtlprnft> with the tailing slash?
20:30 <Luke-Jr> basename returns "bin", not ""
20:30 <Luke-Jr> yes
20:30 <wrtlprnft> returns an empty string
20:30 <Luke-Jr> bug?
20:31 <wrtlprnft> but not important in this case
20:31 <wrtlprnft> music files aren't directories
20:31 <wrtlprnft> and it isn't a real function yet
20:31 <Luke-Jr> ok
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> basename is supposed to return "" in the trailing slash case
20:32 <wrtlprnft> i think noone ran the /msg stuff through a debugger with debug stuff in a long time...
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> I think :)
20:32 <wrtlprnft> it has errors all over the place
20:40 <Luke-Jr> easy to fix?
20:40 <wrtlprnft> ok, fixed it i think
20:40 <wrtlprnft> it was just hit by the std::string conversion, and noone noticed
20:41 <wrtlprnft> and now I'm forced to upgrade my servers to svn :(
20:41 <Luke-Jr> commit...
20:43 <wrtlprnft> need to make devcheck first and write a log entry
20:44 <Luke-Jr> grr
20:44  * Luke-Jr merges to trunk anyway
20:44 <wrtlprnft> done.
20:44 <wrtlprnft> merge the trunk into your copy
20:44 <Luke-Jr> already doing
20:44 <Luke-Jr> gonna have to remerge that last fix =p
20:45  * Luke-Jr wonders why /msg was only popular on the new game mode
20:45 <wrtlprnft> maybe someone wanted to /msg you someone?
20:45 <wrtlprnft> the people on my race server are mostly noobs
20:46 <spidey> boobs!?
20:46 <wrtlprnft> NNNNoobs
20:47 <wrtlprnft> spidey: control your fantasies (,)(,)
20:47 <wrtlprnft> */msg you something
20:48 <spidey> :p
20:51 <Luke-Jr> svn merge sux
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> sucks is spelled S U C K S
20:52 <wrtlprnft> zman has some automerge script methinks
20:53 <wrtlprnft> but he's probably the only one who knows how to use it
20:53 <wrtlprnft> lol, yay for static electricity
20:53 <Luke-Jr> merged
20:53 <n54> thow out the carpets :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> i have a plastic tube of erasers for my mechanical pencils
20:54 <n54> throw*
20:54 <Luke-Jr> sux is 2 char shorter
20:54 <Luke-Jr> I just meant its algorithm
20:54 <wrtlprnft> and if i shake it the erasers get charged the same way
20:54 <Luke-Jr> it finds conflicts in files I didn't change
20:54 <wrtlprnft> now they float above each other a bit
20:54 <n54> :)
20:54 <Luke-Jr> sux is 60% of sucks
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> sux is 100% lame, but sucks is less than 10% lame
20:55 <wrtlprnft> so, if you wanna say it really sucks you use the 66.7% longer version
20:56 <n54> #cyborg sux
20:56 <armabot> n54: S.U.X.: Synthetic Upgraded Xenomorph
20:56 <wrtlprnft> omg, can't you post your merges in a cia, compatinle format?
20:56 <n54> #cyborg sucks
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> ?
20:56 <armabot> n54: S.U.C.K.S.: Synthetic Unit Calibrated for Killing and Sabotage
20:56 <wrtlprnft> that means no space at the beginning of lines since that means code
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> see?  sucks is much cooler than sux
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight sux sucks
20:56 <n54> yup
20:56 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/
20:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: sucks: 81800000, sux: 11400000
20:56 <wrtlprnft> no cpaces unless it's code
20:57 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: eh?
20:57 <wrtlprnft> *spaces
20:57 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I just dumped 'svn log' into it
20:57 <n54> hmm that works?
20:57 <n54> # google fight n54 me
20:57 <armabot> n54: Error: Unexpected error from Google; please report this to the Supybot developers.
20:57 <spidey> #pwn
20:57 <n54> #google fight n54 me
20:58  * wrtlprnft is gonna have to fix cia's css :(
20:58 <armabot> n54: Error: Unexpected error from Google; please report this to the Supybot developers.
20:58 <spidey> lol
20:58 <wrtlprnft> or no, don't even have to
20:58 <wrtlprnft> long live the fit to width option of opera!
20:58  * n54 was fooled by luci :)
20:58 <wrtlprnft> now the long code line just gets wrapped
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight sucks sux
20:59 <Luke-Jr> wtf does CIA use <pre> for code?
20:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: sucks: 97000000, sux: 8280000
20:59  * Lucifer_arma notes that the license for google's web api only allows a certain amount of queries a day
20:59 <wrtlprnft> yay now I'm happy
20:59 <wrtlprnft> just used the new ad blocker to get rid of that huge arma screenshot
21:00 <Lucifer_arma> can't cia use a simple text->html converter?  There are some pretty good ones available...
21:00 <wrtlprnft> it's nice, but eats a third of the page width
21:00 <wrtlprnft> that's what it does
21:00 <wrtlprnft> and that converter interprets every line beginning with whitespace as code
21:00 <wrtlprnft> like mediawiki does
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> who's yarrt?  Is that K?
21:01 <wrtlprnft> i guess so
21:01 <n54> #google fight netbsd openbsd
21:01 <armabot> n54: netbsd: 30400000, openbsd: 24500000
21:01 <wrtlprnft> then who's k_at_work?
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm........
21:01 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: not quite
21:01 <Luke-Jr> CIA's interpretor turns every line beginning with whitespace into 'preformatted', not code
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet that's joda
21:02 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: you don't need to commit every line of code immediately...
21:02 <wrtlprnft> that's cia spam :P
21:02 <Luke-Jr> K has 2 SF users IIRC
21:02 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: nah
21:02 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: like mediawiki does
21:02 <Luke-Jr> I commit every seperate change
21:02 <Luke-Jr> my point was that <pre> != <code>
21:02 <wrtlprnft> yes, i know
21:02 <Luke-Jr> <code> allows wrapping :)
21:03 <Luke-Jr> which works for most languages
21:03 <wrtlprnft> it wouldn't be a problem if CIA didn't use tables
21:03 <Luke-Jr> oh?
21:03 <Luke-Jr> why not?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> if that was a div, a long line would just stick out of the page
21:03 <wrtlprnft> but normal text would still flow normally
21:03 <Luke-Jr> oh, right
21:03 <wrtlprnft> just tables get expanded
21:04 <wrtlprnft> in non- IE browsers, that is
21:05 <n54> heads: grab a cider tails: grab a soda
21:05 <n54> #coin
21:05 <armabot> n54: tails
21:05 <wrtlprnft> anyone itn
21:05 <wrtlprnft> *interested in a #supercoin?
21:06  * wrtlprnft needs a return key far away from backspace and shift
21:06 <n54> heh perhaps :)
21:06 <n54> try the numpad one ;)
21:07 <spidey> lol,my brother told my grandma the reason i'm so stupid's cause i smoke so much pot
21:07 <spidey> i'm not that stupid :/
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> yet
21:08 <spidey> !
21:08 <n54> and your grandam told him to stfu and hand over the joint? ^^
21:08 <n54> ma*
21:08 <wrtlprnft> n54: my notebook doesn't have a numpad
21:08 <spidey> lol
21:08 <n54> I was afraid of that wrtlprnft ^^
21:09 <wrtlprnft> I could try to see if i can remap the power button...
21:09 <n54> :?
21:10 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you can always access this room using http://armagetron.nixda.net/ :)
21:10 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
21:10 <n54> you could hook up a big red button through a com or usb or something, I mean a _big_ red button you could smash with your palm ^^
21:10 <wrtlprnft> just in case you ever get time
21:10 <wrtlprnft> maybe something i can hit with my foot?
21:11 <n54> sure, but it sounds less fun
21:11 -!- vircuser [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <wrtlprnft> gi GodTodd
21:11 <wrtlprnft> or vircuser, whatever
21:11 <wrtlprnft> *hi
21:11 -!- vircuser [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:11 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:12 <n54> prob just changing his name
21:12 <wrtlprnft> and his user :P
21:12 <wrtlprnft> can't change his hostname
21:12 <n54> of course he can ^^
21:13 <wrtlprnft> not that easily
21:13 <spidey> can to
21:13 <n54> very easily really
21:13 <n54> tons of ways
21:13 <spidey> just find a socks5that uses a abnormal port so the ircd scanners don't find it
21:14 <spidey> simple :p
21:14 <wrtlprnft> whatever...
21:14 <wrtlprnft> he could use a proxy, of course
21:14 <Luke-Jr> SSH tunnel
21:14 <n54> or better yet a shell account
21:14 <spidey> i could jump on dialup,lmao
21:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, with proxy i meant ssh tunnel in this case
21:15 <wrtlprnft> what does louven's post in sd's thread say?
21:15 <wrtlprnft> let me guess:
21:15 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
21:15 <wrtlprnft> we don't need you anyways, you just supported all those awful fearures like maps and config rotation
21:15 <wrtlprnft> wb
21:16 <n54> wb GodTodd
21:16 <GodTodd> 'ello
21:16 <wrtlprnft> s/fearures/gimmiks
21:17 <n54> why is SD leaving?
21:19 <Luke-Jr> btw
21:19 <Luke-Jr> admin pass on CvS is foob
21:19 <Luke-Jr> if you guys wanna play w/ settings and stuff
21:19 <Vanhayes> ....
21:19 <Vanhayes> really it is foob?
21:19 <Luke-Jr> yes
21:20 <wrtlprnft> too bad the include thing doesn't work anymore ;)
21:20 <wrtlprnft> I'll play around later
21:20 <Luke-Jr> hehe
21:20 <wrtlprnft> although it would be almost useless i guess
21:20  * Luke-Jr wonders if he needs to run arma as a diff user...
21:20 <wrtlprnft> i have shell access anyways
21:20 <Luke-Jr> hehe, not as me :x
21:20 <wrtlprnft> oh, it's running as luke?
21:20 <wrtlprnft> ok, that's a different thing
21:21  * Luke-Jr changes admin pass
21:21 <wrtlprnft> O_O
21:21 <wrtlprnft> that wasn't a threat
21:26 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AFCC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:30 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know if there's a way to change a player's color during the round?
21:34 <Luke-Jr> i know
21:35 <Luke-Jr> but I'd rather be safe for now
21:35 <Luke-Jr> will move it to a diff user later
21:35 <Luke-Jr> and put pass back at foob
21:35 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok, tell me when
21:36 <wrtlprnft> what kind of connection do you have anyways?
21:40 <Luke-Jr> cable
21:40 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:41 <Luke-Jr> which I can uncap/untrack on demand
21:41 <Luke-Jr> (untrack = ISP can't locate me)
21:41 <wrtlprnft> hiding somewhere?
21:41 <Luke-Jr> hm?
21:41 <Luke-Jr> for example, if MPAA whines about me
21:41 <Luke-Jr> they're screwed
21:41 <Luke-Jr> ;)
21:42 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:42 <wrtlprnft> i guess you have to be somewhere near your home
21:42 <wrtlprnft> so they could locate you
21:42 <Luke-Jr> yes, they'd need to sniff the cable entering the building to know which building I'm in
21:42 <Luke-Jr> hence why it's always off when their trucks are in the area
21:43 <wrtlprnft> Q_o
21:44 <Luke-Jr> but anyway
21:44 <Luke-Jr> ssh
21:44 <Luke-Jr> =p
21:44 <Luke-Jr> shhh*
21:44 <Luke-Jr> bblz
21:44 <wrtlprnft> uh, cya
21:50  * wrtlprnft goes and updates his servers to svn :(
21:53 <joda_bot> Is anyone really in favor of the textures\icon.png ?
21:53 <joda_bot> Or should we switch to the armagetronad\desktop\..\*.png icons ?
21:57  * n54 is in favour of treating the icon resource just as any other tecture/graphics resource
21:57 <wrtlprnft> n54: well, that's not possible for icons
21:57 <n54> if that had any relevance to your question :)
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> last time I checked, we were using what's in desktop anyway
21:57 <wrtlprnft> they're read without arma being executed
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> at least, we are in unix
21:58 <wrtlprnft> I don't favour any icon, they both seem fine
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> the icon source is in armagetronad_build (or whatever it's been renamed to)
21:58 <wrtlprnft> although ed's is more modern, i guess, so i'd say use that
22:01 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: can you check if Armagetron loads textures\icon.png as application logo ?
22:01 <joda_bot> On Windows that icon.png is used during runtime
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> it uses the one in textures
22:02 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:02 <joda_bot> ok, the one in textures is old
22:02 <wrtlprnft> at least for KDE
22:02 <joda_bot> it's the red cycle with grid
22:02 <joda_bot> so what would be a good resolution ?
22:02 <joda_bot> 32x32 ?
22:02 <joda_bot> or bigger ?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> I'll have to find out how to get arma to display the cycle like that on my client...
22:03 <wrtlprnft> seems like i have an opengl bug
22:03 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what are you planning to use it for?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> windows .ico files can contain multiple resolutions at once
22:05 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: the icons out of the desktop folders
22:05 <joda_bot> 48x48 does not work for me on windows 2000
22:05 <joda_bot> so I guess it's 32 32
22:06 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: any chance we get a volume control ? ;)
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> check global key binds, you have one
22:06 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: is there a hot key to stop the current track ?
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> check global key binds, none are bound by default
22:07 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: does not work on the menus :(
22:08 <n54> llok if you're going to have icons then do it right, have both 16x16 and 32x32 at least
22:09 <n54> 48x48 & 64x64 are optional but it's so easy there's no point not having it (all in one file of course)
22:09 <joda_bot> n54: the executable has 16,24,32,48,64 with 16,256,32 colors
22:09 <n54> ok
22:10 <joda_bot> n54: just the game executable loads the logo at runtime from texture\icon.png
22:10 <n54> seems I misinterpreted the conversiation then - sorry
22:10 <joda_bot> I have not looked how or where the icon is loaded
22:10 <joda_bot> might be more sane to use the icons from the executable
22:11 <joda_bot> on the other hand the user can now still customize the runtime icon
22:11 <n54> they can customize both (I did)
22:12 <joda_bot> n54: yes but you need a reseditor for the one solution while the other just requires a suitable png
22:13 <n54> about that; I kinda was thinking about including custom icons in the moviepack/theme way back when <-- what I was alluding to earlier wrtlprnft
22:14 <n54> but yeah it takes more effort
22:14  * wrtlprnft doesn't care about windows icons at all :P
22:16 <n54> who says they need be windows icons only?
22:16 <joda_bot> n54: well the problem is that you need a platform independend format then
22:17 <n54> no you need more than one format - just liek right now
22:17 <n54> like*
22:17 <joda_bot> which results in extra coding work and probably some nasty tricks to get each os to use the icons set at runtime
22:17 <joda_bot> or that
22:17 <joda_bot> but then the user can't customize
22:17 <joda_bot> on Mac OS X and Windows the icons are part of the application
22:18 <joda_bot> and thus require resource editors or atleast some knowledge how to modify the application (mac os x)
22:18 <n54> armagetron used to use an ico file actually iirc
22:18 <n54> (on windows of course)
22:18 <joda_bot> n54: just for the icon at run time
22:18 <joda_bot> But not for the icon in the start menu
22:19 <n54> are you saying the start menu icon is harcoded inside the exe?
22:19 <joda_bot> AFAIK the runtime icon is still customizable 
22:19 <joda_bot> yes I guess
22:20 <joda_bot> yes it is
22:20 <joda_bot> that's also why windows uses that icon for the exec
22:20 <joda_bot> I changed it now so that future builds (0.3.x) will use the yellow icon
22:21 <joda_bot> z-man might decide to merge it to b0.2.8.2
22:22 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: any idea why I don't have any AI in a local game ?
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> nope
22:22 <wrtlprnft> uh, what's NUM_AIS set to?
22:23 <joda_bot> ah wait ... probably my fault ;)
22:23 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:23 <joda_bot> guess I compiled the team code workspace ;)
22:23 <wrtlprnft> enum sr_fontType { sr_fontConsole    = 0001, //!< for the console sr_fontMenu       = 0002, //!< for menu text sr_fontMenuTitle  = 0004, //!< for the titles above menus sr_fontScoretable = 0010, //!< for the score table (the one that comes when you press TAB) sr_fontMenuHelp   = 0020, //!< for the help that pops up if you idle in the menu
22:23 <wrtlprnft>  sr_fontError     = 0040, //!< for error message like the one th at pops up if you get kicked from the server
22:23 <wrtlprnft> }
22:23 <joda_bot> and I mess with a lot of parts of the team management code there
22:23 <wrtlprnft> can you think about anything else?
22:23 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: can you resend the above text with linebreaks ?
22:24 <wrtlprnft> uh, no clue why they got cropped in the first place
22:24 <joda_bot> atleast I didn't get any
22:24 <joda_bot> in gaim I have paste and paste as text ;)
22:24 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/61254
22:24 <wrtlprnft> it usually respects linebreaks
22:25 <wrtlprnft> but it probably decided that i would get kicked if i pasted 8 lines at once
22:25 <joda_bot> HUD
22:25 <joda_bot> ;)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, totally forgot that one
22:25 <joda_bot> Server Browser ?
22:25 <wrtlprnft> that's a menu, technically
22:26 <joda_bot> yeah technically ;)
22:26 <joda_bot> but it has a lot of text usually ;)
22:26 <joda_bot> compared to the menus
22:26 <wrtlprnft> that means we would need some hacking to make it different
22:26 <wrtlprnft> true
22:26 <wrtlprnft> and chat/console should be extra, too
22:26 <joda_bot> center messages ?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> true
22:26 <joda_bot> but somehow ... it all explodes
22:27 <joda_bot> can't we find another way to select fonts ?
22:27 <joda_bot> I'd rather postpone it until the gui widgets are remadte ?
22:27 <joda_bot> if they ever will
22:28 <wrtlprnft> what's that bad about it? It's about as good as we can get
22:28 <wrtlprnft> maybe the internal handling isn't optimal right now, but that can change
22:28 <wrtlprnft> and i have to go through all functions rendering fonts anyways
22:28 <wrtlprnft> since the width pararameter doesn't make sense anymore
22:29 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: once it's there it will sit there and refuse to move for quite some time ;)
22:29 <wrtlprnft> well, the menus won't change for a while i guess
22:29 <joda_bot> hm, right
22:29 <wrtlprnft> oh, i just see, the server browser is fine for getting its own font
22:30 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: What would be a good folder to collect all the build related icons ?
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> check out where it's at in the build module
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know what the build module got renamed to, though, but that's where the icon sources are kept
22:30 <joda_bot> in build is a icon folder which is not really strictly enforced (debian got it's own icon copies)
22:31 <joda_bot> windows well got it's icons in code_blocks and visual c currently
22:31 <joda_bot> that really has to be moved to winlibs
22:31 <joda_bot> perhaps should be renamed to wincommons
22:32 <joda_bot> or another module called winres
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> ok, here's the problem
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> we need to keep icons synced for all platforms somehow, but we don't have a cross-platform way to do that
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> OS X wants a 128x128 png, iirc.
22:32 <joda_bot> sure
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> windows wants .ico
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> KDE and GNOME both want .pngs for each size available
22:32 <joda_bot> Just a similiar folder structure might actually help to get a good overview
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> what I would like to do is have a directory that is the definitive icon sources
22:33 <joda_bot> if I know all icons for linux are in build\icons
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> it should contain the vectored format of the icon, and also pngs of different sizes
22:33 <joda_bot> and for os x we don't have a build module yet right ?
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> I have a program that takes a group of pngs and turns them into a windows icon
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> It's for linux, I don't know if it'll build in windows
22:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: as our logo is rendered ... there is no vector format ;)
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> right, if we don't have that version of the icon source, that's fine
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice if we did...
22:34 <wrtlprnft> you might be able to convert the 3d source into a svg file...
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.winterdrache.de/freeware/png2ico/
22:34 <joda_bot> well we've got a highres version of the icon atleast 128x128
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> ok, according to their website, the program works in windows too
22:34 <wrtlprnft> mathematically it is
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> so what I want to do is have an icon target in the makefiles that uses this program to take the icon sources and build the windows icon file
22:34 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: good luck... I don't want to tell windows to compile a svg into it's exe ;)
22:35 <joda_bot> well it probably would include it, but won't show it ;)
22:35 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I don't want a build process for it
22:35 <n54> let's say a source is either 256x or vector? should provide enough resolution for most future wants
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> no?  why not?
22:36 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: The task is done seldom enough, except if you plan to change it for every build
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> because it doesn't change often enough to matter?  :)
22:36 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: just a good structure in the build stuff ;)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's fine.  I'd like to keep icon sources in the build module, and it's ok imo to build it there and then commit to the main module
22:36 <joda_bot> We might also try to coax nemo into creating a os x build_osx module ;)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> see, the build module needs to be cleaned up anyway, a whole bunch
22:36 <joda_bot> build_xcode actually
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> right now it's basically a dump of all the automation scripts z-man uses to build a release
22:37 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: sounds good for a start ;)
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> but we really need to clean it up quite a bit, collect all the icons in one place and have everybody use those is a good start
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't object at all to including the png2ico source in the build module, but you might check with z-man and see what he thinks
22:38 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: do we have anyone to build a freebsd installer / version ?
22:38 <joda_bot> because it's still locked at 0.2.7.
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's not readily available for any distribution, afaik, so people would still have to download it
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> we had someone, I don't know where they went, though
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> there was work along those lines, we're trying to have the source release at least work on *bsd :)
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: did you fix it so it loads the right icon into the window yet?
22:39 <joda_bot> guess belenus did work on it
22:40 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: no haven't commited the corrected icon.png yet
22:40 <joda_bot> want it ?
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'd rather see it deleted and the icon loaded from the desktop directory
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> the windows installer might need to be modified to handle it
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm looking for the line right now, I'll do it and commit that :)
22:41 <joda_bot> for windows it's important that at most the medium icon is used
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  Do you prefer the medium or the small?
22:42 <joda_bot> atleast it's broken with larger icons
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> umm, we can use the .ico file directly, can't we?
22:42 <joda_bot> medium was fine on w2k
22:42 <joda_bot> might be broken on Windows 98
22:42 <joda_bot> if we still support that
22:43 <joda_bot> the previous logo was 32,32 by 256 colors too
22:43 <joda_bot> so it should be no problem
22:43 <joda_bot> except that the pngs have 24bit colors ;)
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> sdl might do some magic to it, it's a special sdl call to set the window icon
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> I just committed.  It's on line 478 of gArmagetron.cpp.  I put in a really wild path that is correct for Linux, you might want an #ifdef WIN32 so you can put the icon file in a more convenient location
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> it looks better with the medium icon in KDE, so if you'd prefer to use that one, please do :)
22:50 <joda_bot> somehow I don't see the commit yet
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> Sending        src/tron/gArmagetron.cpp
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> Transmitting file data .
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> Committed revision 4725.
22:51 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/
22:51 <wrtlprnft> sitting right there
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh, you beat me to that link :)
22:52 <wrtlprnft> sec
22:52 <joda_bot> :-P
22:52 <wrtlprnft> yarrt is joda :P
22:52 <wrtlprnft> not k
22:52  * joda_bot cloakes
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> #last --with yarrt --from Lucifer_arma
22:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [21:01:08] <Lucifer_arma> who's yarrt?  Is that K?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
22:53 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet that's joda
22:53 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft 
22:53 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:54 <wrtlprnft> I'll tackle all those errors tomorrow
22:55 <joda_bot> cu wrtlprnft
22:55 <wrtlprnft> woot 4 people saying good night... record!
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> #echo 'night
22:55 <armabot> 'night
22:56 <wrtlprnft> armabot was the first one to say good night
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> #echo I'm not a person, I'm a bot.
22:56 <armabot> I'm not a person, I'm a bot.
22:56  * n54 guesses wrtlprnft has sound sleeping habits since it's dawn here ^^
22:56 <wrtlprnft> if it's a she she must have personal quality
22:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:56 <n54> #armabot do you have a eprsonality?
22:56 <armabot> n54: You know the answer better than I.
22:56 <wrtlprnft> #eliza are you human or a bot
22:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say are me human or a bot?
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> #echo that doesn't mean I"m a person.
22:57 <armabot> that doesn't mean I"m a person.
22:57 <wrtlprnft> #eliza because i forgot the ?
22:57 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What do you think?
22:57 <n54> #armabot do you dislike that Lucifer speaks on your behalf?
22:57 <armabot> n54: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.
22:57 <wrtlprnft> #eliza i think you're as much of a bot as anyone else here
22:57 <n54> ok I will ;)
22:57 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say that?
22:57 <wrtlprnft> frustrating
22:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma:  I bet this works for windows too
22:58 <joda_bot> except for the "/" perhaps
22:58 <joda_bot> but that should be handled in the backend :-P
22:59 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler 2 $ svn update src/render/rColor.h             ~/armagetronadsvn
22:59 <wrtlprnft> At revision 4725.
22:59 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ ls src/render/rColor.h                       ~/armagetronadsvn
22:59 <wrtlprnft> ls: src/render/rColor.h: No such file or directory
22:59 <wrtlprnft> ?!
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> pwd
23:00 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: except that the widnows version does not copy the desktop folder ;)
23:00 <wrtlprnft> (the ~/armagetronadsvn is part of my prompt)
23:00 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: that desktop folder solution is not the best idea
23:00 <joda_bot> because it requires a few additional directories for windows
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: this is a place where you should #ifdef windows and maybe provide one for mac
23:01 <joda_bot> and in the end icon.pn is a texture / resource
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> those directories are the correct place for Linux, that's where the makefile puts it
23:01 <joda_bot> so just leave it at texture/icon.png
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> ?  but that's the wrong solution :)
23:01  * Lucifer_arma wants to eliminate the texture subdirectory entirely
23:02 <joda_bot> the windows solution is to use the resource icons of the exe
23:02 <joda_bot> ;)
23:02 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:02 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I don't mind but only if we have a resource management as replacement ;)
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> that's what we're working on.  But the icon isn't a resource
23:03 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: are you sure the desktop dir is included with all linux dists ? ;)
23:03 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma:  what's it then ?
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's installed when you do make install whether you want it or not, afaik.
23:03 <joda_bot> it's required to run the game => resouce ;)
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> great, more language lawyers
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> is joda_bot just a german clone of Luke-Jr ?
23:04 <joda_bot> If you only use it for links , I'm fine with your definition
23:04 <joda_bot> but the game will crash / complain if you don't have the icon
23:04 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: i hope not
23:04 <joda_bot> :-P
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> what's the problem?  Can you do an #ifdef?
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> ok, Mr. Language Lawyer.  Required to run the program = program resource, found in resource files.
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> Required to play the game = game resource.  This is the stuff we use xml files and tResourceManager for
23:10  * n54 exits blackbox on his windows machine to check something about icons
23:15 <spidey> #ping
23:15 <armabot> pong
23:15 <spidey> hmm
23:16 <n54> ok as an example winzip on w2k; in the start menu you can change the icon (they're all shortcuts anyway) and the source is the winzip.exe itself rather than an .ico file - however for the actual exe you cannot change the icon, still there's no .ico file - same applies for winamp
23:16 <n54> however all shortcuts can be changed by referenceing any .ico file too naturally
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> the icon gets built into the .exe by the compiler/linker and that's what's usually used.
23:17 <n54> yes
23:18 <n54> but is it really set in stone? I don't see any reason it should be?
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> linux and OS X both do something similar, they store the icon on disk away from the executable, and it's diametrically opposed to what windows does
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> it would be simpler, imo, to build the icon into the exe.
23:18 <n54> yes I know
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> So, to handle this situation, SDL (and every other cross platform toolkit I've seen) has an api call to load an icon for the window manager
23:19 <n54> yeah but the *nix way has advantages too imo
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> you're supposed to call that particular function early, during program initialization, and we do that.
23:19 <n54> yes and that api doesn't need to be hardlinked does it?
23:19 <n54> the "resource" it references I mean
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> so the menu icons and all that other stuff in windows are determined by what's built into the executable (which is technically a resource)
23:20 <n54> yes I do think changing an icon the "way I think" would require restarting the prog
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> but what's used in the window of the game when you run it is handled by that api call
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't see any good reason to allow changing the icon.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> I take it back, I see one good reason.
23:20 <n54> menu icons are actually meant to refresh
23:20 <n54> it would be neat & cool imo :)
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> Somewhere down the line we're going to make it possible to take the armagetronad binary and bundle it up in a package with custom moviepack, game rules, and maps,
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> and release a game that's fundamentally different.
23:21 <n54> but since I'm not coding I don't have any say and I'm not complaining
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> Say I do the ebonstar thing when the game supports it, and instead of releasing it as an add-on, I make it a different game
23:21 <n54> yup
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> the same way people make mods of games now and release them as new games (counterstrike?)
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> in that case, it will make a whole lot of sense to directly support changing the window's icon along with the rest
23:22 <n54> or simply a 100% re-skinned theme
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> but because of how the icon is handled otherwise, a person releasing such a mod needs to build from source so he can build in his own icon to the executable
23:23 <n54> yes but couldn't it be in the exe while still not be hard-linked? *thinks so*
23:23 <n54> basically just a pointer
23:24 <n54> just bits like everything else :)
23:24 <n54> anyway I wouldn't call any of this a priority, just wanted the meme out there :)
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> the problem there is probably maintenance, I'm guessing
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> if there's a problem, I don't know :)
23:25 <n54> me neither :)
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> but different windows versions expect to find things in different places
23:25 <n54> I know
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> but they all expect to find the icon they're looking for in the executable
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> which is simpler maintenance from what I can see, but I may just not know enough about how icons are handled in windows
23:26 <n54> and it would be imo :) but perhaps it wont be good enough, I don't know
23:26 <n54> some apps do keep their icons in seperate .ico files though
23:26 <n54> I'll probably have to dig around to find an example outside the system tools
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and some apps distribute their ico file even though they don't use it
23:27 <n54> no no they use it
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> ?
23:27  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he should point out such an app :)
23:28 <n54> I know I've seen it but finding it will be a bitch
23:28 <n54> point out the app if it's an example :)
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I think audacity does it, but I wont' swear to it.  I know they build the icon into the executable and use that for most everything, including what gets loaded in the window
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> what I won't swear to is that they still distribute the ico file in the windows installer.
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> They *used* to, that I can promise you.
23:29 <n54> hmm *doesn't have audacity installed at the moment*
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> but whether or not they still do, I don't know.
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> I also don't know if we actually build the icon into the executable.  It's possible we don't and we depend on that sdl call I mentioned
23:31 <n54> it would be strange to have an .ico file seperately like armagetron used to do if it is actually built into the exe, sort of overkill afaik
23:32 <n54> I say used since I'm out of date :)
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and if we intend to allow the game to be modded and released like I mentioned, we shouldn't build the icon into the exe
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> maybe shouldn't.  Maybe we could provide a tool to change what's there?  I don't know.  Not my problem.  :)
23:33 <n54> nobody's problem :) just something that might eventually turn out to be a neat thing :)
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> fortress is boring against a bot
23:38 <spidey> i'll play
23:38 <spidey> :D
23:38 <spidey> after i get done eating my breakfast
23:38 <n54> :)
23:39  * Lucifer_arma probably wouldn't stay long
23:39  * Lucifer_arma is looking at ai sources right now
23:40  * n54 found a program that uses an external ico file as it's real representation in menus; quicktime alternatie
23:40 <spidey> quicktime sucks
23:40 <n54> yes
23:40 <spidey> it tried to be the alpha mp3 player 
23:40 <spidey> i had to show it whos boss and delete it xD
23:41 <spidey> <3 winamp
23:41 <n54> what's worse is that the ordinary quicktime installs heaps of crap, that's why this program is "quicktime alternative"
23:41 <n54> <# vlc
23:41 <n54> <3 vlc I mean
23:42 <spidey> i like amarok
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> amanisland
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> amarok, amanisland
23:43 <n54> ??
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> "I am a rock, I am an island"
23:43 <spidey> lol
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, you kinda have to be a paul simon fan to get that one
23:43 <spidey> just got that
23:43 <n54> ok I know that song; simon & garfunkel
23:44 <n54> but I don't get the point of saying it amarok
23:44 <spidey> am-a-rok
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> amarok = KDE's media player
23:44 <spidey> translated am-a-rock
23:44 <n54> ok haven't used that one
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> it's fairly new, but unlike some of the others it has rapid development
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> it's quite full-featured, even if it can't hang with armagetron
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> I used to use xmms for ingame music, then said fuck it and wrote the ingame media player we've got right now :)
23:45 <n54> I use the windows box for media but I relly like vlc and use that and winamp mainly
23:45 <spidey> tron has a ingame media player?
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> sure, but it's not in 0.2.8
23:46 <spidey> :/
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> you want to build arma?  :)
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> 0.2.8 was in late beta when I wrote it, and the code changes are not trivial, it probably won't ever show up in 0.2.8
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> but it's in svn right now, you can get it from svn and build it yourself and have it
23:47 <spidey> hm
23:47 <spidey> maybe later :p
23:48 <spidey> trying to figure out why my network just stops loading webpages
23:48 <spidey> for no reason
23:54 <n54> time for sleep, cya all :)
23:54 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []

Log from 2006-06-03:
--- Day changed Sat Jun 03 2006
00:14 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-053-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["on the run"]
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> "These two questions are inherently related and apparently not answered here. This is likely due to the fact that it's asked so much that we're busy answering it for someone else right this minute. Hopefully we'll get to a good treatment of it here sometime soon."  <--- I think I'm so witty
00:58 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
01:01 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good morning everyone
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> #morning
01:03 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
01:03 <armabot> Good Morning Lucifer_arma! Random Fortune:  BOFH Excuse #301: || appears to be a Slow/Narrow SCSI-0 Interface problem
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> er, morning :)
01:04 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #morning
01:04 <armabot> Good Morning [Xpert]DarkStar! Random Fortune:  The Celts invented two things, Whiskey and self-destruction.
01:04 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hmm isn't that one and the same thing?
01:06  * Lucifer_arma wonders if the Celts invented self-destruction
01:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hrhr
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> finally got back my colored directory listings and made a pretty prompt :)
01:09 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hehe
01:55 <spidey> tuesday is 6/6/06
01:57 <[Xpert]DarkStar> yup
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> wooo satan
02:06 <spidey> lol
02:21 -!- philippeqc [n=ph@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
02:22 <philippeqc> morning
02:22  * philippeqc is sitting at his gf's computer, far from his code.
02:22 <guru3> haha
02:23 <philippeqc> well, I'll make good use of this time, and study more C++
02:25 <philippeqc> anyone knows what lacking fundamentals Louven is talking about?
02:26 <guru3> i'm not quite there yet on the forums
02:30 <guru3> and nope i don't know
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> tab completion?  shuffling rank?
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> music?  configurable hud?
02:48 <guru3> hrhr
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> camera work in general?
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> or does he want the magic "no lag" code that's a physical impossibility?  And he's going to hold it against us personally?
02:48 <guru3> i dunno :/
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> don't know how important it is, even tightening up the game has required a certain amount of rewriting, and doing more of the same requires more of the same
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> coincidentally, so do all the new features and game modes
02:49 <guru3> i like the rabbit hunter idea tho
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ack.  Sorry, I kept my irritation on the forums, I'm just dumping it here.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> Yes, I like the rabbit hunter idea too.  I'll bet we can reach it with current code, too.
02:50 <guru3> two seperate teams really
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> it is also a variation on a grid game we play on swampland, actually
02:50 <guru3> and then team switching
02:51 <philippeqc> I've had one pm exchange with Louven, hopefully more will come
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> you kknow he's oscilloscope, right?
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> it only says so over his avatar :)
02:52 <philippeqc> but I started thinging bout something he said about rubber, basically (my interpretation) that it was the wrong answer
02:52 <philippeqc> yes I kno
02:52 <philippeqc> just showing respect to his new nick
02:53 <philippeqc> so anyway, I was thinking, what was rubber trying to fix beside network latencies. 
02:53 <philippeqc> and its cycle width.
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> how so?
02:54 <philippeqc> (using the "its done like that in the movie arguement") Recall the scene where 2 good guys "grind" each other, and the bad guy smashes into their trace, as the space for it to pass is too small
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> ok, recalled
02:55 <philippeqc> our solution is that one of the 2 good guys have to do a good grind, and the bad guy trys to beat it/ gets surprised and crash
02:55  * Lucifer_arma isn't convinced :)
02:56 <philippeqc> the movie solution was taht the 2 good guys try to close it below the width of the following cycle, and then bad guy cant follow
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> recall also that neither of them cross his path
02:57 <philippeqc> yes, he dies because his cycle width is more than the space available for him (ok, he is also off center, so half his cycle with > space between his trajectory and the nearest trace)
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> and in our game he'd be accelerating between the two walls
02:57 <philippeqc> if he has space to be there, yes.
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that it's a correction for cycle width, it doesn't seem terribly difficult to add cycle width, after all
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> I could be wrong
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> but there's another thing it does allow for that the game requires, and I think we need to take another look at default local game settings :)
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> without rubber, it's nearly impossible to get close enough to a wall to be accelerated by it
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> but if you can't get close to a wall, you can't accelerate
03:00 <philippeqc> humm, ok, rubber isnt a fix for cycle width, it just that it offered a mecanism where cycle width was AS required.
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> global and static variables are created before main() starts being executed, right?  (dumb question, I suppose0
03:01 <philippeqc> but it created the mentality of trying to outgrind the one in front of you. 
03:01 <philippeqc> (yes I'd say they are)
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> I think that mentality would have been there, but it'll be harder when there is cycle width
03:01  * Lucifer_arma thinks we need cycle width anyway
03:01 <philippeqc> me too
03:02 <Lucifer_arma> configurable, of course, maybe ultimately defined by a cycle profile that includes model and some physical characteristics
03:02 <Lucifer_arma> what we have now though is "Can I beat that grind?".  A better question is "Can I fit in there after I beat that grind?"
03:03  * spidey has beat just about every grind atleast once xD
03:03 <spidey> lucis multiple times :p
03:04  * Lucifer_arma isn't a grinder :)
03:04  * philippeqc think your splitting hair now. But it has created a mentality about grinding better than your opponent, where cycle widht would be "too small to pass, dangerous to attempt or thanks for the opening"
03:04  * Lucifer_arma prefers to use tactical superiority and quick wits rather than good finger-twitching
03:04 <spidey> lol
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> you're probably right, philippeqc  :)
03:05 <spidey> if there's a opening i'll take it :p
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'll tell you wht I am getting tired of, even though it hasn't happened lately.
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting tired of being told that some kill was luck or lag
03:06 <spidey> ?
03:06 <philippeqc> the difference with grinding is that a more skilled player will probably overgrind what ever you can throw at him, and with cycle width, you can effectivly lock him out. The first case become a race to produce better grinder
03:06 <spidey> yea
03:06 <spidey> everytime a sp member dies,you can bet 70% of the time it's lag :p
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> right, and 29.9% of it is luck
03:06 <spidey> yea
03:07 <philippeqc> humm, yes there is a whining mentality floating around.
03:07 <spidey> .1% it's wd
03:07 <spidey> atleast i give credit where it's due
03:07 <spidey> i mean almost all of them have below a 90 ping
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> I see your point philippeqc, and I'm gonna have to say I can't argue it.  Better to bring in cycle width and see how it goes, I think.
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> the thing that irritates me about luck/lag is that it seems like the victim either couldn't believe he died, or couldn't believe you did what you did on purpose
03:08 <philippeqc> I'm just trying to explore what Louven is saying.
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> and for that I'd rather wait for an explanatio of what he means by fundamentals.  :)
03:09 <spidey> yea luci
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> I can't say we've neglected any, and I can't see how it's an effective use of developer resources to devote all development to that sort of thing
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> if there were only 2 or 3 developers, sure, I could agree with him without needing an explanation.  There are a lot of things I'd class fundamental that need to be done.
03:10 <philippeqc> I'm just exploring what he is (might be) saying. Sometimes your biggest opponent turn out to be the one that can help you the most.
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: I get that shit in real life, too.  :)  I hit and killed a bee in the air with a drumstick once upon a time, and the friends that saw it said it was luck.
03:10 <spidey> lmfao
03:10 <spidey> wanna play cvs?
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> I agreed I may not be able to repeat it, it was hard!
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> nah, I'm working on the sound engine.  :)
03:11 <spidey> lol,k
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> trying to get it to a state where I can really fool with it.  It's in pretty piss-poor condition right now.
03:11 <spidey> where'd cvs go?
03:11 <spidey> i can't find it on the list
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> renamed to something
03:11 <philippeqc> bugfarm
03:12 <spidey> ah
03:12 <spidey> i see it
03:12 <philippeqc> z-man was looking for alternative names, possibly including test in it... Ever since, mine has been stuck with "test-icules" as a proposal... Nothing I could post on the forum ;)
03:12 <spidey> lol
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> The Test-icle Vestible?
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> spidey makes people say gay things, does that make him a ventriloqueer?  <--- worst joke I've ever told
03:14 <spidey> heh
03:14 <spidey> i don't make them!
03:15 <spidey> it's volunterly
03:16 <spidey> yea
03:16 <spidey> lag/slide/luck
03:16 <philippeqc> gay ventriloquuer, that bring a new meaning to "having a hand down the back of the puppet"
03:16 <spidey> those 3
03:16 <philippeqc> ok, back to studying.
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> I'm inclined to take slides at face value, I die often enough because of slides
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> and I'll tell someone it was luck when I killed them while sliding crazily
03:17 <spidey> yea here lately i get slides every now and then
03:17 <spidey> but really.....
03:18 <spidey> after hearing them say it everytime :/
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> but if you're watching, you can tell that I'm telling the truth anyway.  :)  How often do I die just driving long straight lines and then hit a wall?
03:18 <spidey> lol
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> hell, how often do I drive long straight lines to begin with?  ;)
03:18  * spidey pleads the 5th
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, when I kill myself doing something stupid, I'll usually say so :)
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> especially if I just killed myself doing the same stupid things the last round, heh
03:19 <spidey> lol
03:28 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087199B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
03:28 <spidey> sp brag to much too :/
03:58 -!- philippeqc [n=ph@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> if I multiple a float by an int, the resulting data type is int, right?
04:11  * Lucifer_arma feels like asking dumb questions tonight, apparently
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> also, if I dynamic_cast something with virtual methods, and then call the virtual method, the implementation in the subclass still gets called, right?
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> none of that "oooooh, let's call the base class instead" garbage, right?
04:21 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
04:23 <philippeqc> back
04:28 <philippeqc> lucifer: trying to compile svn trunk got me the following:
04:28 <philippeqc> In file included from ../../src/engine/eSoundMixer.h:48,
04:28 <philippeqc>                  from ../../src/tron/gArmagetron.cpp:38:
04:28 <philippeqc> ../../src/engine/sound/sdl_mixer/eChannelSDLMixer.h:39:27: error: base/eChannel.h: No such file or directory
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh
04:32 <philippeqc> src/engine/sound/base is an empty directory here
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> can you take file uploads?  I can't commit what I've got, it's totally destablize the trunk
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> but that file is untouched
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, wait, can I commit one file by itself?
04:32  * Lucifer_arma seems to think so
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> ok, update and try again
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> it should download that file now
04:34 <philippeqc> got the file
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04:51 <philippeqc> brb
04:51 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
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04:55 <philippeqc> back
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> did it build?
05:04 <philippeqc> yes
05:04 <philippeqc> got so many sparks in my face
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> umm, default is still the old sparks :)
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> anybody know how to coerce m4 to let me put color codes in configure.ac?
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06:43 <philippeqc_> test
06:49 <Luke-Jr> wtf? the game icon isn't a resource, nor required to do anything w/ the game
07:42 <wrtlprnft>      Binaries will be installed in      : ${prefix}/bin
07:42 <wrtlprnft>      Static data will be installed in   : ${prefix}/share/games/armagetronad-dedicated
07:42 <wrtlprnft>      Configuration will be installed in : ${prefix}/etc/games/armagetronad-dedicated
07:42 <wrtlprnft>      Documentation will be installed in : ${datadir}/doc/games/armagetronad-dedicated
07:42 <wrtlprnft> i bet that's not intended
07:44 <wrtlprnft> it used to replace ${prefix} with the actual prefix
07:48 <Luke-Jr> it shouldn't
07:48 <Luke-Jr> make is supposed to do that
07:49 <Luke-Jr> since prefix can change before then
07:49 <wrtlprnft> hmm, ok
07:53 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087199B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
08:30  * Luke-Jr throws MCP attack into private/
08:31 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:32 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087199B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
08:32 <wrtlprnft> looks like gtk_engines_qt has a memory leak :(
08:33 <wrtlprnft> s/_/-/g
08:43 <Luke-Jr> that would explain where my memory goes...
08:43 <Luke-Jr> oh crap
08:43  * Luke-Jr needs to be back awake for work in 5 hrs
08:43 <Luke-Jr> <.<
08:43 <Luke-Jr> g'night!
08:49 <wrtlprnft> night
09:03 <philippeqc_> wrtlprnft: I think  OutputIterator set_union( InputIterator1 first1, InputIterator1 last1,
09:03 <philippeqc_> InputIterator2 first2, InputIterator2 last2, OutputIterator result,
09:03 <philippeqc_> Compare comp);
09:03 <philippeqc_>   is acting up on me.
09:04 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong with it?
09:04 <wrtlprnft> the containers need to be sorted
09:04 <philippeqc_> it is calling my "comp" object, but it seem to disregard the result and do the comparaison itself
09:04 <philippeqc_> they are.
09:05 <philippeqc_> but if I want to do a union of [3] and [4 5 6], it gives me [4 5 6 3]
09:05 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:06 <wrtlprnft> sort again?
09:06 <philippeqc_> so I decided to fool it, and inverted the result of "comp", and it produce the same output
09:06 <philippeqc_> shouldn't union produce a sorted result????
09:06 <wrtlprnft> does it say that anywhere?
09:07  * philippeqc_ check the doc for that, but it would be crazy if it didnt , because a set is SUPPOSED to be sorted at any time
09:24 <philippeqc_> ok, now it even populates in the wrong order! 
09:25 <philippeqc_> starting to suspect that set doesnt like to hold shared_ptr<Base> objects
09:26 <philippeqc_> it say that "The set class implements a sorted collection of values. "
09:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, second
09:31 <wrtlprnft> what does operator < do?
09:31 <wrtlprnft> compare the pointers or compare the contents?
09:32 <wrtlprnft> can't you just derive something from shared_ptr that overloads the < operator?
09:32 <wrtlprnft> std::sets don't support anything else but operator<, i think
09:33 <philippeqc_> depends on the type presented.
09:33 <philippeqc_> but I'm using set_union(w,x,y,z,out,compare), and giving my own compare object
09:34 <philippeqc_> but I'm also thinking that  "<" is comparing pointers during creation. But that is a second prob
09:34 <wrtlprnft> that is your problem
09:34 <wrtlprnft> (emphasize "is")
09:34 <wrtlprnft> you're creating them one after another, right?
09:34 <wrtlprnft> so, first you have a set of 4,5,6
09:35 <wrtlprnft> so, first you have a set of 3
09:35 <wrtlprnft> then you create another one of 4,5,6
09:35 <wrtlprnft> no, other way...
09:35 <wrtlprnft> anyways, if std::set sorts by operator< it will basically sort by creation time
09:36 <philippeqc_> my prob is 
09:36 <philippeqc_> I create [4 5 6]
09:36 <philippeqc_> then I create [3]
09:36 <philippeqc_> then I do a set_union and get [4 5 6 3]
09:36 <philippeqc_> share_ptr overwride operator<
09:36 <philippeqc_> template<class T, class U>
09:36 <philippeqc_>   bool operator<(shared_ptr<T> const & a, shared_ptr<U> const & b); // never throws
09:36 <philippeqc_>     Returns: an unspecified value such that
09:36 <philippeqc_>         * operator< is a strict weak ordering as described in section 25.3 [lib.alg.sorting] of the C++ standard;
09:36 <philippeqc_>         * under the equivalence relation defined by operator<, !(a < b) && !(b < a), two shared_ptr instances are equivalent if and only if they share ownership or are both empty
09:37 <philippeqc_> http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/shared_ptr.htm
09:39 <wrtlprnft> yes, but shared_ptr::operator< is a different thing than your comp object
09:40 <wrtlprnft> therefore your set stuff will produce different results than expected
09:40 <philippeqc_> the following is my own object passed to set_union as a comparator. line "bool e = (c < d);" uses the operator< of Base (or the appropriate type)
09:40 <wrtlprnft> actually unpredictable results
09:40 <wrtlprnft> > The elements in the two ranges must have been sorted using the comp function object.
09:41 <wrtlprnft> (c++ annotations)
09:41 <wrtlprnft> and in your case, they weren't.
09:41 <wrtlprnft> they were sorted by something else
09:41 <philippeqc_> no, its unspecified value, so that the oprator< is a strict weak ordering.
09:41 <wrtlprnft> but it's a DIFFERENT ordering than what your set_union() uses
09:42 <philippeqc_> how can I sort them ?
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09:42 <wrtlprnft> you probably can't with sets
09:43 <wrtlprnft> that's why i seid, derive your own class from shared_ptr
09:43 <wrtlprnft> and override the < operator
09:44 <philippeqc_> hummm
09:44  * philippeqc_ wonders if he'll ever finish this bit of code. ;)
09:44 <philippeqc_> ok, will do that.
09:48 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
09:50 <philippeqc_> cya
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10:37 <z-man-home> 0.2.8 is available on aabeta! Get it while it's hot!
10:38 <z-man-home> err,, of course.
10:39  * MaZuffeR goes to get some ovengloves
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11:02 <MaZuffeR> hi Vanhayes
11:02 <Vanhayes> hwy Maz
11:02 <Vanhayes> Hey*
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11:19 <Joni> yo guys
11:19 <Joni> i need some help
11:20 <Joni> cud sum1 help me plz
11:20 <Vanhayes> with what?
11:20 <Joni> i cnt get it to work
11:21 <Joni> i put this in my everytime.cfg...
11:21 <Joni> CENTER_MESSAGE http://thewingclan.bravehost.com
11:21 <Joni> but it didnt show up in the game
11:22 <Joni> How do i get it to work?
11:22 <guru3> give it some time
11:22 <Joni> wot do u mean?
11:22 <guru3> not everyone is on
11:23 <Joni> oh ok
11:23 <Joni> do u kno how to do it?
11:23 <nemostultae> you could set round_center_message
11:23 <Joni> ok ill try it
11:24 <Vanhayes> Um it works fine
11:24 <Vanhayes> just tried it out and it shows up
11:25 <Joni> what shows up?
11:25 <Joni> r u on my server?
11:26 <Vanhayes> that url
11:26 <Vanhayes> wings server?
11:26 <Joni> yes
11:26 <Joni> thts mine
11:26 <Vanhayes> ya
11:26 <Joni> does it show up?
11:26 <Vanhayes> ya
11:26 <Joni> oh
11:26 <Vanhayes> goes by pretty wuick but it shows up
11:26 <Vanhayes> quick*
11:27 <Joni> is there a way to slow it down
11:27 <Joni> i dobt ther is but..
11:27 <Joni> doubt*
11:27 <Vanhayes> probly, but i don't know how
11:27 <Joni> ok
11:28 <Joni> brb
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11:45 <Joni> yo guys
11:45 <Joni> its me
11:45 <Joni> im bk
11:47 <Joni> how do u use this command PASSWORD ?
11:49 <nemostultae> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Remote_Moderation
11:50 <Joni> thnx m8
11:51 <nemostultae> you can use any command available on the server with /admin
11:51 <Joni> but i dont get what PASSWORD does
11:52 <nemostultae> ADMIN_PASSWORD sets the password for /login
11:52 <nemostultae> ADMIN_PASS*
11:53 <nemostultae> PASSWORD is for something else
11:53 <Joni> wot is password 4 thn?
11:53 <Joni> i kno about admin_pass
11:54 <nemostultae> it is a disabled feature, it doesn't do anything useful currently
11:54 <Joni> ok thnx
11:56 <Vanhayes> what does BIG_BROTHER do? anything?
11:57 <Joni> im not sure lol
11:57 <nemostultae> it sends your OS info, OpenGL info, and if you are running in windowed or fullscreen to the master server
11:57 <Joni> nemo
11:58 <Joni> could i ask u a question
11:58 <Joni> at the start of each round i want a message to be desplayed
11:58 <Joni> how could i do tht?
11:59 <nemostultae> put in everytime.cfg -- say blah blah
11:59 <Joni> no
12:00 <Joni> tht wud make it admin: blah blah
12:00 <Joni> i just want
12:00 <nemostultae> round_console_message
12:00 <Joni> blah blah
12:00 <Joni> round_console_message
12:00 <Joni> could i have 3 messages after another with 
12:00 <Joni> round_console_message
12:00 <Joni> ?
12:01 <nemostultae> yes, you can use newlines: round_console_message one line\nanother line
12:01 <nemostultae> the \n creates a newline
12:03 <Joni> would this work?
12:03 <Joni> ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE 0x0000FF------------------------------------------------ /n 0x00FF00http://thewingclan.bravehost.com /n 0x0000FF------------------------------------------------
12:03 <Joni> ????
12:03 <nemostultae> \n, not /n
12:03 <Joni> ok
12:04 <Joni> do i need spaces around '\n' or doesnt it matter
12:04 <nemostultae> no, you don't
12:04 <Joni> ok
12:04 <Joni> thnx
12:04 <Joni> ill try tht out
12:06 <Joni> thnx
12:06 <Joni> works perfect
12:06 <Joni> g2g for tea
12:06 <Joni> ill be bk in abit
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12:52 <wrtlprnft> weird guy...
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13:26 <kommerck> hi
13:27 <kommerck> I've got a problem compiling on suse 10.1
13:27 <kommerck> it doesn't run autoreconf, and if I straightly run ./configure and make it complains
13:35 <z-man> It shouldn run autoreconf at all if you don't change configure.ac
13:36 <z-man> Can you paste the first error message you get?
13:36 <kommerck> well I run autoreconf manually, but I have configure.ac
13:36 <z-man> why?
13:36 <kommerck> hold on I try without the autoreconf and paste the error messages
13:38 <kommerck> make: *** No rule to make target `acinclude.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'.  Stop.
13:38 <kommerck> that's w/o autoreconf
13:39 <z-man> Hmm, acinclude.m4 should be included, I'll check.
13:43 <z-man> yes, acinclude.m4 is included in the tarball. And there is no make rule to recreate it, because it's all human edited. Did you accidentally delete it?
13:43 <kommerck> actually no
13:44 <kommerck> every time I recompile I clean the builddir
13:44 <kommerck> actually rpm does that for me
13:44 <kommerck> I'm trying to build a package
13:44 <kommerck> oups
13:44 <kommerck> it gets deleted indeed
13:45 <z-man> Perhaps it's not the canonical approach to have it with human edited content? We're all not really autoconf/make/stuff experts here.
13:45 <kommerck> I'm using the suse spec from and the writes decided to remove this file :D
13:45 <z-man> Ah.
13:45 <kommerck> writers*
13:46 <z-man> I can't remember what we did back then with that file.
13:46 <kommerck> and they decided to run autoreconf too
13:47 <kommerck> anyway removing those two lines and make's on the way
13:47 <kommerck> many thanks
13:47 <z-man> Probably because they want all SuSE packages to have configure generated by the same version of autoconf
13:47 <z-man> np ;)
13:47 <kommerck> yeah, and it fails
13:47 <kommerck> because of missing defines
13:48 <z-man> You mean that's a problem now or was a problem back then?
13:48 <kommerck> it's a problem now
13:48 <z-man> Oh.
13:48 <z-man> Which defines are missing?
13:48 <kommerck> I extracted that specfile from the file
13:48 <kommerck> hold on
13:49 <kommerck> AM_BINRELOC and AC_SINCLUDE
13:50 <z-man> Our build system has become much more standard since Probalby a better approach is to take the specs from some different projects?
13:50 <z-man> Both of them are defines in aclocal
13:50 <z-man> err, acinclude
13:51 <z-man> sorry, bbl. Dinner is ready.
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14:26 <philippeqc> hi, is there a changelog for
14:41 <z-man> posted it in the beta testing thread.
14:45 <philippeqc> ok thanks
14:47  * philippeqc feels he should be more carefull of announcements
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16:02 <z-man> philippeqc: ah, no, the post came after your request here :)
16:04 <joda_bot> hi
16:05 <joda_bot> z-man: You talked about moving the common resources (icons, makedist.bat, nsis) into winlibs ... should this be done ?
16:05 <z-man> yes.
16:05 <z-man> I see you updated the code::blocks makedist.bat, so you're probalby best suited for this.
16:09 <joda_bot> z-man: yeah, I already found some minor errors I'm trying to correct
16:09 <joda_bot> z-man: can you update the VC6 project ?
16:09 <joda_bot> z-man: once I've moved the files for codeblocks ?
16:09 <joda_bot> I won't modify the VC6 project yet
16:10 <z-man> I won't get it to work in VC6 :)
16:10 <z-man> But I'm about to port it fully to vc8.
16:10 <z-man> So yes, whatever you do, ignore build_visualc, that'll be my job.
16:10 <joda_bot> fine
16:11 <joda_bot> z-man: did you try to use svn/cvs plugins with the CodeBlocks nightly ?
16:11 <z-man> No, I haven't messed with the plugins and the nightly yet.
16:11 <joda_bot> because I stumbled about the note on the wiki that rc2 does crash with those
16:11 <z-man> Ah, that was with rc2.
16:12  * joda_bot is going to test it, if he finds the plugins ;)
16:12 <z-man> They came with rc2, that's why the note is there :)
16:13 <joda_bot> When will be on sf ?
16:13  * joda_bot has to update www.armagetron.nixda.net's download button then ;)
16:14 <z-man> AABeta will redirect its users to SF once that happens.
16:14 <z-man> It will be sometime tomorrow. Nemo has the mac build ready.
16:14 <joda_bot> does it redirect ?
16:15 <z-man> But I'm waiting for reports that people install and find an aligator in their toilet.
16:15 <z-man> yes, it redirects once you tell it to do so.
16:15  * joda_bot obediantly downloads 
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17:17 <wrtlprnft> Uh, why do we link ftgl statically by default?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> what about an option at configure time, the default would be dynamic linking
17:18 <wrtlprnft> for compiling you need the lib anyways, and for distribution you could enable that option
17:21 <wrtlprnft> nvm, i read your post
17:21 <z-man> Ah, no, we do link dynamically by default.
17:21 <z-man> It's just the autopackage.
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ok, i just read the CIA logs
17:21 <z-man> :)
17:22 <wrtlprnft> which reminds me, I'll remove that HUD menu
17:22 <z-man> good.
17:22 <wrtlprnft> any way to force the cockpit to be linked without that stupid function?
17:22 <z-man> Oh, what does the thing on top of the screen in the middle do?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> framerate. It's only supposed to be there in incam
17:23 <z-man> The cockpit is in tron/, right?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> it's in tron/cockpit
17:23 <wrtlprnft> currently in gHud.cpp:
17:23 <wrtlprnft> void stupid_unnnecessary_function_that_makes_the_linker_happy() {
17:23 <wrtlprnft>     cCockpit::GetCockpit()->ProcessCockpit();
17:23 <wrtlprnft> }
17:24 <wrtlprnft> where cCockpit is defined in tron/cockpit/cCockpit.cpp, and it includes everything else
17:24 -!- Joni [n=5443dd75@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:24 <Joni> hey guys
17:24 <z-man> move the .cpp file in the makefile from libtron_a_SOURCES to armagetronad_main_SOURCES
17:24 <wrtlprnft> and gHud is referenced from gMenus IIRC, but if i remove those links the cockpit disappears in a black hole
17:25 <z-man> Yeah, that's the curse of libraries.
17:25 <Joni> how do i make it so the rubber on my server doesnt deplete as fast?
17:25 <Joni> how do i make it so the rubber on my server doesnt deplete as fast?
17:26 <z-man> You already asked the opposite question on the forum, or one of your clanamtes did.
17:26 <z-man> and please don't spam, we're not blind.
17:26 <Joni> soz
17:26 <Joni> i dint mean to do it twice
17:26 <wrtlprnft> z-man: now I'm interested too :P
17:27 <wrtlprnft> i don't see a setting for the depletion rate
17:27 <z-man> CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME :)
17:27 <z-man> it defaults to 10, making it lower makes the rubber deplete faster, higher makes it deplete slower.
17:27 <wrtlprnft> i meant the opposite
17:27 <Joni> ok
17:27 <Joni> ok thnx
17:27 <z-man> wrtlprnft: the opposite of what?
17:28 <z-man> Joni: np
17:28 <wrtlprnft> The rate it fills up when it's used
17:28 <Joni> ok
17:28 <z-man> ah that, no, that is fixed.
17:28 <wrtlprnft> i forgot rubber is the other way than the brakes
17:28 <wrtlprnft> ok, just curious ;)
17:28 <z-man> yeah, it's another curse :)
17:28 <Joni> cant u make it refill quiker thn?
17:28 <wrtlprnft> z-man: actually, thinking about it, you don't need to change it
17:29 <wrtlprnft> Joni: z-man just explained that
17:29 <z-man> joni: hng, reread what I said :)
17:29 <Joni> oh
17:29 <Joni> lol
17:29 <Joni> soz
17:29 <joda_bot> Joni: deutsch ?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> z-man: if you want the rubber to last longer you set cycle_rubber to something bigger :P
17:29 <z-man> correct :)
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it's not like brakes, where the maximum is fixed at 1
17:30 <wrtlprnft> the main source is gFloor.cpp?
17:30 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:30 <z-man> Yeah, had I forseen that the values would be displayed in a HUD sometime, I'd have made rubber go from 0 to 1 too, and start at 1.
17:31 <z-man> wrtlprnft: gFloor.cpp has the same problem as the HUD :) Nobody explicitly links to it.
17:31 <z-man> And the real main program doesn't have to be listed, because it contains main().
17:31 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
17:32 <Joni> o english
17:32 <wrtlprnft> gHud.* will be history then :P
17:32 <z-man> you're the boss there.
17:33  * z-man prepares for bedtime
17:33 <wrtlprnft> I should at least keep a subby_ comment somewhere...
17:34 <wrtlprnft> night z-man 
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17:35 <wrtlprnft> uh, do i need to get rid of the language strings, or is there a way to do that automatically?
17:37 <z-man> There is no way yet for that. We should write a scanner some time, but it's all right to leave the strings alive for now.
17:37 <z-man> At least, if you remove them in english_base.txt, they'll be marked as obsolete in the other files.
17:38 -!- Joni [n=5443dd75@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:38 <Joni> hi
17:39 <Joni> i have another question 4 u guys
17:39 <Joni> i have a file called everytime.cfg
17:39 <Joni> this is what is in it
17:39 <Joni> ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE ---------------------------------\nhttp://thewingclan.bravehost.com\n---------------------------------
17:39 <Joni> SAY Swearing And Bots Are Disallowed Violaters Will Be Banned
17:40 <Joni> but the problem is...
17:40 <Joni> it doesnt turn out how i want it to
17:40 <wrtlprnft> no need to put ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE into everytime.cvf
17:40 <wrtlprnft> *cfg
17:41 <wrtlprnft> how does it turn out then?
17:41 <Joni> chck out my server
17:41 <wrtlprnft> they might come in the wrong order at random
17:41 <Joni> ~]~
17:41 <Joni> oops
17:41 <Joni> ~[Wing]~
17:41 <Joni> yes
17:41 <Joni> they do
17:42 <Joni> i want the website to come before the admin writing
17:42 <Joni> how do i fix this problem?
17:42 <wrtlprnft> then fake the admin
17:42 <Joni> wot ya mean?
17:42 <nemostultae> change round_console_message to console
17:43 <Joni> yes but the site comes on as the game is sayin 3 2 1 go
17:43 <nemostultae> so it does a console message.
17:43 <Joni> etc
17:43 <wrtlprnft> ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE <insertnormaltexthere>
17:43 <wrtlprnft> 0xff0000Admin0xffff88: <insertadmintexthere>
17:43 <wrtlprnft> ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE <insertnormaltexthere>\\n0xff0000Admin0xffff88: <insertadmintexthere>
17:43 <wrtlprnft> grr
17:43 <nemostultae> console_message*
17:43 <wrtlprnft> second one, but with just one backslash
17:43 <wrtlprnft> and there's no need for it to be in everytime.cfg
17:44 <nemostultae> do a console_message, and then a say.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> it might still come in the wrong order
17:44 <wrtlprnft> i have that on my race server, it has 4 SAY commands and they come in an apparently random order
17:44 <Joni> i wont it to be on the lines of the xzl server
17:44 <Joni> that where i got my idea
17:45 <Joni> off start of xzl
17:45 <wrtlprnft> I just posted the command above...
17:45 <Joni> does any1 know who owns the xzl server?
17:46 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo might know, but he is leaving...
17:46 <Joni> leavin wher?
17:46 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4011
17:47 <Joni> oh
17:47 <Joni> how cum hes on chat?
17:47 <wrtlprnft> he said he would leave tonight
17:48 <Joni> omg?
17:48 <Joni> lol
17:48 <Joni> i just missed
17:49 <wrtlprnft> that makes the SQUAT one member shorter
17:49 <Joni> SQUAT?
17:49 <Joni> wots tht?
17:49 <wrtlprnft> SQUAT: QUality Assurance Team
17:49 <wrtlprnft> recursive acronym
17:49 <Joni> oh
17:50 <Joni> u kno the ladder
17:50 <Joni> how do i access my servers ladder?
17:51 <wrtlprnft> somewhere in your var dir
17:51 <wrtlprnft> sar/ladder.txt
17:51 <wrtlprnft> s/sar/var
17:52 <Joni> im runnin XP
17:52 <joda_bot> Joni: you need a webserver on the same server to display it online (and then you can create symbolic link form a web directory to the ladder.txt)
17:53 <wrtlprnft> Joni: no idea where it might be, just search for a file named ladder.txt?
17:53  * wrtlprnft mumbles about windows XP not being a server OS
17:53 <Joni> lol
17:54 <joda_bot> Usually in the installation directory if you use a dedicated server
17:54 <joda_bot> c:\program files\armagetronad dedicated\var\
17:55 <joda_bot> for the usual client's "server":
17:55 <joda_bot> c:\program files\armagetronad\var\
17:55 <joda_bot> and you might also check:
17:55 <joda_bot> c:\document and settings\[username]\Application Data\Armagetron\var
17:57 <Joni> well it is a dedicated server
17:58 <Joni> c:\program files\armagetronad dedicated\var\
17:58 <Joni> but i cnt find it in 
17:58 <Joni> ^^
18:00 <wrtlprnft> uh, anyone an idea where you can define defaults for input keys?
18:00 <joda_bot> then check the document and settings folder
18:00 <Joni> aha found it
18:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: no idea
18:01 <Joni> nop
18:01 <Joni> duno about much me lol
18:02 <wrtlprnft> ah, there we go
18:03 <wrtlprnft> config/default.cfg
18:03 <Joni> how do i host these on the internet?
18:04 <Joni> host do i host the ladder?
18:04 <joda_bot> Joni: you need a web server
18:05 <joda_bot> Joni: but that is beyond my guidance for tonight
18:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087199B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:05 <Joni> ill show u this post i found
18:05 <Joni> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3254
18:06 <Joni> look at the top 1
18:06 <joda_bot> Joni: basically you have to find a way to either run a web server on your computer or just upload at regular times
18:06 <Joni> how do i do this?
18:06 <joda_bot> You have to install a lot of software
18:06 <joda_bot> and open ports in your firewall or redirect your routers port to your computer
18:07 <joda_bot> except if you have a windows pc at a server farm
18:07 <Joni> wrtlprnft: u posted on this topic
18:07 <joda_bot> or the university
18:07 <Joni> no
18:07 <joda_bot> Joni: you need php, and apache
18:07 <Joni> at home
18:07 <joda_bot> Joni: your server will suffer from bandwidth problems probably
18:07 <joda_bot> how much upstream do you have ?
18:07 <Joni> duno
18:08 <joda_bot> Joni: I adwise you to be happy to be able to host a small server for friends
18:09 <Joni> its 4 a clan
18:09 <Joni> is there any wer i can get my server hosted?
18:09 <joda_bot> but you a web server for a ladder does only make sense for a dedicated server which runs at a server farm
18:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes?
18:09 <joda_bot> Joni: many sites, but they all cost money
18:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: did not say anything to you (I guess)
18:10 <Joni> is ther any cheapish 1s?
18:10 <Joni> it was me
18:11 <wrtlprnft> oh, sorry
18:11 <Joni> wrtlprnft: i said u posted on this topic
18:11 <Joni>  http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3254
18:11 <wrtlprnft> mixed you two up
18:11 <Joni> ok lol
18:11 <wrtlprnft> both start with jo
18:12 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but i am hosting a webserver
18:12 <wrtlprnft> maybe not on a great connection, but its running on a dedicated linux box
18:12 <Joni> i just wondered if i could get a stats thing workin on this PHPBB site i found
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> the xzl server, last I heard, was hosted by the same people hosting the mbc server
18:13 <Joni> who owns tht?
18:13 <wrtlprnft> Antix.
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> distortgaming ?
18:13 <Joni> ok
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> it might even physically be on the same machine as the mbc server, I think they've only got the one dedicated server
18:14 <wrtlprnft> but antix is not the admin of the arma servers
18:14 <Joni> http://www.forumer.com/
18:14 <wrtlprnft> it is on the same machine
18:14 <joda_bot> #message z-man* default keybinding for screenshots is broken on w2k (reassigned screenshot with "print screen" is labeld "sys_req")
18:14 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
18:14 <Joni> couldnt i host my stats on there
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> antix is one of the owners of distortgaming :)
18:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: printscreen IS sysreq
18:14 <wrtlprnft> same key
18:14 <wrtlprnft> just on modern keyboards it's not labelled anymore
18:15 <joda_bot> well, then the default.cfg does not work
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see that default changed anyway
18:15 <wrtlprnft> why?
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> print screen is a pain to hit on my laptop, and there is no f13 on it either
18:15  * wrtlprnft has it bound to f2
18:15 <joda_bot> because screenshots are only taken once the print screen "entry" after reassigning "sys-req"
18:15 <wrtlprnft> and you can always change it
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> so whenever I want to screenshot some neato new code I've written, I have to rebind screenshot, heh
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> on my regular sysinstalled config I have it bound to f2, it's only when I run from my build directory that I have to deal with it :)
18:16 <joda_bot> I'd rather see "fullscreen toggle" moved away from f ;)
18:16 <wrtlprnft> yes, definitely
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> but I assume others are in similar situations with their print screen keys
18:16 <wrtlprnft> my printscreen key is fine
18:17 <wrtlprnft> binding it to f2 was more of an accident and i got used to it
18:17 <wrtlprnft> printscreen is a chat key now
18:17 <Joni> u kno my server stats hosting
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> my laptop differentiates print screen and sys req
18:18 <Joni> could this be any good?
18:18 <Joni> http://www.forumer.com/
18:18 <wrtlprnft> ...
18:18 <wrtlprnft> stop witing red
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> bold and red isn't any good
18:18 <Joni> soz lol
18:18 <Self_Destructo> heh, i didn't even know that was possible
18:18 <Joni> destructo!!!!!!
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> you should've been here when Cristi was here, heh
18:18 <Joni> who owns xzl clan server
18:19 <Joni> ????
18:19 <Self_Destructo> well guys, this is my last goodbye
18:19 <Joni> bye
18:19 <wrtlprnft> cya :(
18:19 <wrtlprnft> have luck
18:19 <Self_Destructo> i hope so :)
18:20 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Quit in 0,446516 second(s)"]
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> bye
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> damn, all I did was go get more tea
18:20  * wrtlprnft waves goodbye
18:20 <Joni> wrtlprnft: could that site provide me with a server for my server stats?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> I don't think so
18:21 <Joni> how come?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> that would require you to have code changes
18:22 <Joni> like what?
18:24 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
18:25 <wrtlprnft> like, adding the code to show the score table
18:25 <Joni> would that be hard?
18:27 <wrtlprnft> well, the code is already posted, contact whoever posted it
18:27 <wrtlprnft> but i don't think that site allows you to change the forum code
18:28 <Joni> ok
18:28 <wrtlprnft> ok, wave goodbye to gHud.* and the subby_ variables
18:29 <n54> *waves* :)
18:33  * Lucifer_arma waves gladly
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> although I'd like to retain a subby_something just for nostalgia :)
18:35 -!- Joni [n=5443dd75@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
18:36 <n54> how about an official "hall of codemonkeys" page as a tounge-in-cheek but sincere list of everyone who has touched the code? or something else than codemonkeys if that sounds wrong, sinply "hall of coders"?
18:36 <wrtlprnft> isn't that the purpose of the AUTHORS file?
18:36 <n54> simply*
18:37 <n54> dunno, is the authors file historical?
18:37 -!- kommerck [n=Leon@dslb-088-072-131-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Another attempt to get a real life."]
18:37 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/61490
18:38 <n54> *clicks*
18:39 <n54> ah ok :)
18:40  * wrtlprnft wonders how many users actually read that
18:40 <MaZuffeR> i did :)
18:41 <n54> read one ages ago
18:42 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:42 <wrtlprnft> looks like i didn't read it enough, else i'd know yarrt was joda_bot 
18:46 <n54> :)
18:47 <MaZuffeR> i might actually have seen subby a couple months ago, someone named hqqns played fortress and it certainly wasn't a noob 
18:48 <n54> I haven't checked swiftparrot lately but that's _his_ hangout :)
18:48 <n54> so go there for subby goodness ^^
18:56 <joda_bot> hqqns is subby up sie down
18:56 <joda_bot> side
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> codemonkeys = past developers, code junkies = present developers :)
18:57 <MaZuffeR> it's in subbanese actually
18:57 <MaZuffeR> http://randypalmer.com/tron/#lang
18:57 <n54> hehe luci
18:58 <joda_bot> :)
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, hqqns is always subby, afaik, and he doesn't talk much
19:04 -!- Ringwraith` [n=gollum@tor/session/external/x-d4423663d237dbc2] has joined #armagetron
19:05 <Ringwraith`> moo.
19:09 <Lucifer_arma> would anybody like to meet my pet skeleton?
19:10 <Lucifer_arma> my neighbors think having an undead pet is weird, but my landlord says its ok as long as it's not a living pet, which the lease expressly forbids.
19:11 <n54> lol
19:12 <n54> sure, what is its name? :)
19:13 <Ringwraith`> aww how cute
19:13 <Ringwraith`> you have psychopaths living next door
19:15 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191023.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
19:15 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:15 <armabot>  4 
19:15 <Vanhayes> #canada
19:15 <armabot>  4 
19:16 <Vanhayes> heh
19:19 <wrtlprnft> http://randypalmer.com/tron/#list
19:19 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:25 <wrtlprnft> uh, i guess the nasalization guy just gave us green ligt for the font resource thing
19:27 <n54> "   You can beat node easily 	" ^^
19:28 <n54> cool what did he say?
19:30 <n54> " you find yourself grinding your car against the curb in a vain attempt to gain speed." is my favourite :)
19:31 <wrtlprnft> mine too
19:32 <wrtlprnft> noone can beat n54 easily since he's never on the grid :(
19:32 <n54> that will change in the not too distant future :) you'll whop my ass
19:33 <wrtlprnft> we'll see
19:33 <wrtlprnft> but i hope it will change :)
19:33 <n54> :)
19:33 <n54> the idea of fortress intrigues me so I'll orbaly try to play that after getting some of the rust off
19:34 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Any idea where @progtitle@ is defined under linux ?
19:53 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: it's determined in configure
20:05 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191023.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:06 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: do you the spot it is applied ?
20:06 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: because when compiling with code blocks it somehow does not define @progtitle@
20:06 <joda_bot> and I'm not sure where or what I have to do to fix it
20:08  * wrtlprnft has no clue
20:10 <Ringwraith`> nasalization
20:10 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:10 <Ringwraith`> u have big nasals
20:11 <Ringwraith`> i rather
20:11 <wrtlprnft> it's a font i'm planning to make available for arma
20:11 <n54> that reminds me what was the guys reply wrtlprnft? you said it was a go-ahead?
20:11 <wrtlprnft> yeah, although it looks a bit like a template answer
20:15 <n54> ok
20:18 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: does configure replace the entry @progtitle@ in languages.txt ?
20:18  * wrtlprnft has no clue
20:18 <wrtlprnft> where are instant chat keys for irssi?
20:19 <joda_bot> irssi ?
20:19 <wrtlprnft> that /me has no clue would have to be one of them
20:19 <wrtlprnft> my irc client
20:19 <joda_bot> ah
20:19 <joda_bot> gaim has none AFAIK ;)
20:19 <joda_bot> makes my life easy
20:22 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know an easy way to convert utf-16 to utf-8 and vice versa?
20:24 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20:24 <Ringwraith`> humping a goat while doing complex multiplication
20:25 <wrtlprnft> operation timed out?
20:25 <wrtlprnft> weird error
20:26 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: yes
20:34 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: oh... really stupid, how am I to do that for windows
20:34 <joda_bot> guess I'll just comment out the lines loading it, and change the default from Armagetron to Armagetron Advanced
20:36  * joda_bot wonders why the app name can be customized ;)
20:43 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: it would be awfully nice if the autotools stuff can be used for windows too, but that's probably just a pipe dream of mine :)
20:44  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know why the app name can be customized, but wants it to remain so and get better so people can use it as an engine for other games.
20:44 <wrtlprnft> aren't the autotools just bash scripts?
20:44 <wrtlprnft> go cygwin!
20:50 <n54> actually not cygwin so much as mingw
20:50 <n54> want the result to be native after all ^^
20:54 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: might be that works ... but we should not use cygwin to build (at least not the compiler ... n54 got it right :-))
20:54  * wrtlprnft was kidding with cygwin
21:03 <Ringwraith`> socket to me
21:14 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AD16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:19 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> you can build with cygwin and get a native result
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> just don't link to libcygwin and you're fine.  :)
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> of course, that means use native windows calls instead.  Then you use the link libraries provided by mingw and link against them, use their headers, etc.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> we should be able to pull it off, if we really wanted.
21:30 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciAteAPerson
21:30 -!- LuciAteAPerson is now known as Lucifer_arma
21:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't change my name for dinner, and wanted to say I ate dinner :)
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, to build with cygwin and not have to link to libcygwin, you just have to use the CYGWIN define that cygwin defines in your code
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's not terribly difficult, most places that have current win32 ifdefs just need cygwin added.
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> there will be a few places where some extra effort may be needed, like commandline processing, which is both unlike windows and unlike linux
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> and, umm, oh yeah, the binary you end up with is always native.  The only difference is does it use the posix layer provided by libcygwin or not.
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> the advantage to supporting cygwin is we can have windows automation using the same bash scripts we use for linux, if we had those.
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, supporting cygwin is probably as complicated as supporting cross-compiling from linux to build windows binaries, and we'd be better off doing that for automation,
21:35 <Ringwraith`> Qt
21:35 <Ringwraith`> Qt!
21:35 <Ringwraith`> ;p
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> because then we could automate all the linux builds at the same time
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> have the same machine do it, you know.
21:37 <wrtlprnft> what about that dotnet/mono stuff? you could have the same binary on windows and linux
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> we could just rewrite in java, too.
21:37 <n54> *shivers*
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't jump on the .NET bandwagon.  :)
21:37 <n54> me neither
21:37  * Lucifer_arma doesn't trust Microsoft to not go out of its way to make things hard for mono
21:37 <wrtlprnft> that was as much of a joke as cygwin#
21:38 <n54> we take you too seriously it seems ^^
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh, cygwin is a real possibility, though.  :)
21:38 <n54> (J/k) :)
21:38 <n54> I would like to try mingw actually but well
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> tell Luke-Jr to do cygwin :)
21:38  * n54 isn't too fond of cygwin, if you want *nix then install it I say
21:39  * Lucifer_arma can't live without cygwin when he's stuck in windows, which isn't very often
21:39 <n54> yeah I can see how it fits a purpose if one is forced to use windows against ones wishes and such
21:40  * wrtlprnft doesn't bother with cygwin
21:40 <wrtlprnft> ssh connection home is better
21:41 <Ringwraith`> i like having less rather than a damned scroll buffer in which you cant scroll back up
21:41 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> ssh connection home doesn't give me the tools to work directly on the machine that cygwin does
21:42 <wrtlprnft> well, why should i work on that machine if i can work on my machine at home?
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> cygwin is also really useful for porting posix programs to windows because it works very well.  Not perfectly, of course, but well enough.
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: depends what you're using the machine for.  When I got this laptop, it had windows on it, and linux didn't go on smoothly and I didn't have time to deal with it
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> so I ran windows
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> which meant I was working, writing papers, etc, all in windows
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> which also meant that I needed a commandline from time to time to do work-related stuff.
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> ssh into my other machine wouldn't give me that.  :)  cygwin would.
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> of course, when that semester ended, first thing I did was invest the time to get linux on here.  :)
21:44 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure, if you're that desperate
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> it makes windows livable for a time, that's all.
21:44 <wrtlprnft> there's always linux in vmware or similar, though
21:45  * Lucifer_arma notes that vmware is quite expensive and expires if you don't give them money
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> and my email about student discounts was ignored even though their website tells you to ask for them.
21:46 <wrtlprnft> there's a vmware player
21:46 <wrtlprnft> wich means you can use premade configurations
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, let's see.  Setup xampp in about 10 seconds, install mambo and friends in about 5 minutes, and start working.
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> or, take <some unknown amount of time> to setup a vmware configuration that's probably better
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> meanwhile, I have <this much time> already allocated for work, school, family, etc.  :)
21:48 <Ringwraith`> how do you install your friends?
21:48  * Lucifer_arma wishes he lived in a world where he didn't have to make decisions he didn't like, but sadly, he does not live in that world.
21:48 <Ringwraith`> thats a cool feature
21:48 <n54> hehe
21:48 <wrtlprnft> the vmware disk you can later copy on a real partition
21:49 <wrtlprnft> which means you can fix the driver stuff and continue where you left
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> anybody know how to get colors printed to the terminal with cat?
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> and in a way that m4 doesn't choke when it processes the file?
21:51 <wrtlprnft> you mean, remove them?
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> better yet, anybody know of an autoconf project that does it?
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> know, show colors.
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> I want to change our table to output red x's for stuff that's turned off and green O's for stuff that's turned on.  :)
21:52 <n54> won't cat show it if it's in the file?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ ls --color > asdf                                            ~
21:52 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ cat asdf                                                     ~
21:52 <n54> otherwise.... script?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> that displays colors for me
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> the stuff you do to set colors int he prompt causes m4 to choke when it processes the file
21:53 <wrtlprnft> ah, now i get it
21:53  * wrtlprnft has no clue
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> \[\033[0;35m\]\u@\h\[\033[1;34m\]: \w\[\033[0m\]$   <--- causes m4 to choke when it processes configure.ac
21:54 <n54> the prompt colorisation stuff is in whatever shell you use so if that's just "in a file" I can see how that would make trouble yes
21:54 <wrtlprnft> more \\?
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> not enough escaping?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> just guessing
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> still chokes
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> green="\\[\\033[0;35m\\]"
21:57 <n54> too many \'s
21:57 <n54> but are you trying to do that in the file itself?
21:57 <n54> with the table you want cat to display?
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, because it's supposed to be able to fail gracefully in a shell that doesn't support it
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, you're supposed to use heredocs instead of big echo blocks, and I'll be converting our table to heredoc instead
21:58 <wrtlprnft> what does it have to do with the shell?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> *confused*
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> oh, ummm
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> can't use bash-style includes because they're not supported
21:59 <n54> I've tried to say that :)
21:59 <wrtlprnft> I thought colors were done by the terminal
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I couldn't just move the function into another file that m4 doesn't process
22:00 <Ringwraith`> no ansi codes usually
22:01 <Ringwraith`> just vi it and tell it to use the shell
22:02 <Ringwraith`> you could i think cat a .ans file from the old bbs days
22:02 <Ringwraith`> and it should be colorized in the term
22:05 -!- Ringwraith` [n=gollum@tor/session/external/x-d4423663d237dbc2] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, these are ansi codes.  That's not a problem, though.  The problem is that m4 thinks it's hitting EOF and chokes
22:07 <wrtlprnft> is there any way to get the shell to insert them?
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> umm, we could have our own script that handles the echo and therefore doesn't get processed by m4
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> call it as a command.  Then the question is how do I get configure to recognize the script?
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I have an idea actually.  :)
22:10 -!- fcukfcuk [n=mathias@] has joined #armagetron
22:10 <fcukfcuk> fuck
22:10 <fcukfcuk> shit
22:10 <fcukfcuk> ass
22:10 -!- fcukfcuk [n=mathias@] has quit [Client Quit]
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> make a table.in file that contains the table to print and then just have it processed with the output
22:11 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-040-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> n=mathias@  <--- not fooled, heh
22:11 <n54> what was all this for btw?
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> arma's configure script
22:11 <n54> ok
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> I've got some other ideas to try, but I'd rather finish restructuring the sound stuff first
22:13  * Lucifer_arma just wanted to brighten up configure a bit, because it's such a boring script
22:14 <wrtlprnft> uh, that was for the irc stats
22:15 <n54> ?
22:15 <n54> teh fcukfcuk thing?
22:15 <n54> the*
22:16 <wrtlprnft> AfterDeath has quite a potty mouth. 51.2% words were foul language. 
22:16 <wrtlprnft> ThePinkF1oyd also makes sailors blush, 47.0% of the time.
22:16 <wrtlprnft> that should make 100%
22:16 <wrtlprnft> and i was testing the newly installed irssi on my server
22:17 <n54> ok
22:17 <wrtlprnft> btw you can't call yourself fuck on freenode
22:17 <wrtlprnft> it says erroneus nick
22:18 <wrtlprnft> or however you spell that
22:20 <spidey> c'mon luci :p
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> you try being wingman to a wuss that has to leave zigzags for you to grind
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> you try being wingman to a wuss that has to leave zigzags for you to grind <-- spidey
22:22 <spidey> lol
22:26 <spidey> luci!!!!!!!!!1
22:27 <wrtlprnft> doesn't arma have a build-in chat feature?
22:27 <spidey> no
22:30  * n54 slept 15 hours yesterday and is tired again :| (now, 6 hours later)
22:45 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-184-18.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: do you get on-screen display that hurts your fps?
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: do you get on-screen display that hurts your fps?  :)
22:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, some gauges are expensive
22:57 <wrtlprnft> the time-to-impact gauge eats like 5fps for me, but it's f*** useful
22:57 <wrtlprnft> the map is expensive too, and large tables
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> there's a time-to-impact gauge?
22:57 <wrtlprnft> yes
22:58  * Lucifer_arma thinks he needs to look at the tutorial again
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> yes, map is expensive, but it can probably do with some optimization anyway
22:58 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Cockpit_Tutorial#Possible_contents_for_data_sources
22:59 <wrtlprnft> reload, just corrected a mistake
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I think I saw the mistake you just corrected :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> and there are some more callbacks, I see.
23:01  * Lucifer_arma really likes this callback thing, it was so easy to add the song title callback
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> whatever other gripes I may have, that is :)
23:02 <wrtlprnft> :)
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't see widget templates, I'm going to have to screw with that
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> I've become quite attached to the bar gauges I use
23:02 <wrtlprnft> the heck?
23:02 <wrtlprnft> why did the wiki stop interpreting &asdf; entities?
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> did it ever?
23:03 <wrtlprnft> yes it did when i wrote that
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> could be something to do with tank moving it to his server
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> when you wrote that it was still on my server, wasn't it?
23:03  * wrtlprnft groans and digs out something to copy and paste from
23:04 <wrtlprnft> oh, nvm, it was a typo
23:04 <wrtlprnft> &ldquoT; instead of &ldquo;
23:05 <wrtlprnft> but I'm still not finished with callbacks, it should be easier
23:05 <wrtlprnft> like, currently you have to add the thing in 3 places
23:10 <wrtlprnft> have a look at my cockpit for a working example :)
23:13 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:13 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:20 <spidey> lucifer
23:20 <spidey> i don't get a onscreen display,i play games on the windows computer and everything else on the linux(this one)
23:20 <spidey> :p
23:22 <spidey> and pretty soon my fps are gonna go up alot , i'm getting a powercolor radeon 9250 256mb 128-bit gfx card for the windows box :)
23:22 <spidey> compared to the onboard 64mb gfx i got 
23:22 <spidey> which the onboard gives me 59fps
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok.  I get onscreen display from konversation that really kills my fps
23:41 <spidey> hmm
23:41 <spidey> can't say the windows x-chat before i started using this box ever killed my fps from a pop-up when someone said my name

Log from 2006-06-04:
--- Day changed Sun Jun 04 2006
00:16 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-128-49.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> re tard
01:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
01:20 -!- Joni [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
01:21 <Joni> yo guys
01:33 <spidey> lol @ re tard
01:34 -!- Joni [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
01:54 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873F84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:57 <spidey> hahaha
01:57 <spidey> :)
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> damn server restarted
01:57 <spidey> cmoe back
02:18 <[Xpert]DarkStar> *yawn*
02:19 <[Xpert]DarkStar> morning
02:39 -!- WingDark [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
02:39 <WingDark> or8 guyd
02:39 <WingDark> guys*
02:41 <WingDark> im trying to use two commands in my autoexec.cfg and its says commands unknown in my dedicated server window
02:41 <WingDark> these are the commands
02:41 <WingDark> CYCLE_WALLS_LENGTH 1600
02:41 <WingDark> why dont they work?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Ringwraith`: Just a warning, but Qt does NOT work with Cygwin involved. ; Cygwin should handle most *nix apps w/o special code, but I won't do it. ; Using Cygwin to port is like using WINE to port-- except that Cygwin's API is standardized. ;)
02:43 <Luke-Jr> cross-compiling to a MingW target is likely easier than a Cygwin target, too
02:44 <Luke-Jr> spidey: wtf? why bother with a 9250 for Windoze?
02:45 <WingDark> are you talking to me
02:45 <WingDark> ?
02:50 <WingDark> hello?
02:53 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
02:55 <spidey> why not?
03:00 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:01 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
03:08 -!- WingDark [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> je suis american
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> at this rate, I might actually speak french in a couple of years
03:34 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B99CE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:37 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B99CE.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
04:35 -!- WingDark [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
04:40 <WingDark> or8 yoons!
04:48 -!- WingDark [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
04:52 <spidey> i had to kill 2 brown recluse and this weird spider just to piss :/
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> you used a suitable weapon and not your penis, I take it?
05:02 <spidey> hahah
05:02 <spidey> i used my grandmas big ass hand held mirror thingy
05:08 -!- kommerck [n=Leon@dslb-088-072-130-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
05:08 <kommerck> hey
05:08 <kommerck> where does armagetron looks for its config files when I install it to /usr and with --disable-games?
05:12 <kommerck> the install script put them to /etc/armagetronad but the binary still doesn't find the configfiles
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: Check the trunk now, just committed a fix.  The buffer will default to 256 samples in size, and you can adjust it with SOUND_BUFFER_SIZE, which is a float, multiplied by 512
05:13 <Lucifer_arma> kommerck: that may be a bug.  Hmmmm.............
05:13  * Lucifer_arma wonders if games is hardcoded in the path in the game
05:15 <kommerck> I'll try with -disable-sysinstall and then call it manually
05:20  * spidey is watching boondock saints
05:21 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
05:24 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: tried the sparks with hardware acceleration, the are very neat. But have a look at them with software rendering. The best description would be "biking in a cloud of moscitos with your mouth open".
05:25 <philippeqc> and after that, they keep on flying around, raising high in the sky.
05:25 <philippeqc> spidey: Can we get the rope? 
05:27 <spidey> ?
05:28 <philippeqc> spidey: it comes later in the film.
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  they are highly experimental right now.  :)
05:29 <spidey> philippeqc, ah
05:34 <kommerck> still no go.....
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> did you try --disable-binreloc?
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to sleep now, sorry
05:42  * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
05:48 <kommerck> even more errors
05:56 <kommerck> oO
05:56 <kommerck> it looked in %_prefix/share/config
06:00 <spidey> "you and your fuckin rope"
06:00 <spidey> xD
06:26 -!- kommerck [n=Leon@dslb-088-072-130-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Another attempt to get a real life."]
06:28 <Luke-Jr> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/network/nNetObject.cpp?r1=4053&r2=4179
06:28 <Luke-Jr> why is that code duplicated?
06:36 -!- WingDark [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
06:39 <WingDark> or8 guys
06:44 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
06:48 <WingDark> wot?
06:48 <Luke-Jr> English
06:48 <WingDark> what are you on about?
06:48 <Luke-Jr> "or8" makes no sense
06:49 <Luke-Jr> sh: or8: command not found
06:50 <WingDark> ok
06:50 <WingDark> sorry about that
06:50 <WingDark> i meant allright
06:50 <WingDark> sorry
06:50 <WingDark> lol
06:50 <WingDark> how do i make my own map for my server?
06:51 <WingDark> does anyone have any idea?
06:51 <Luke-Jr> all right is two words
06:51 <Luke-Jr> yes
06:51 <WingDark> ok
06:51 <Luke-Jr> rtfw
06:52 <WingDark> sorry again
06:52 <WingDark> rtfw??
06:52 <WingDark> what does that mean?
06:52 <Luke-Jr> read the fscking wiki
06:52 <Luke-Jr> first, you write the map file
06:52 <Luke-Jr> it's XML, so similar to webpages
06:53 <WingDark> thats the bit i didnt kno
06:53 <Luke-Jr> then you pick a category, name, and version for it
06:53 <WingDark> how to write it
06:53 <Luke-Jr> so the resource tag would be <Resource Author="WingDark" Category="..." Name="..." Version="0.0.1">
06:53 <Luke-Jr> the wiki has detailed info on the format
06:54 <Luke-Jr> then, you get an account on the resource repository by asking me
06:54 <Luke-Jr> and finally, you can then use the web interface to upload your new map
06:54 <WingDark> ok
06:54 <Luke-Jr> and then set MAP_FILE to WingDark/Category/Name-Version.aamap.xml
06:54 <WingDark> so i have to make it first
06:54 <Luke-Jr> yes
06:55 <WingDark> ok
06:55 <Luke-Jr> there are plenty of example maps you can look at http://resource.armagetronad.net/resource/
06:56 <WingDark> thanks
06:59 <WingDark> is the only way to make them by hand?
06:59 <Luke-Jr> pretty much, for now
06:59 <WingDark> isnt their any programs to preview them?
06:59 <Luke-Jr> personally, I use KPaint to design it ;)
06:59 <Luke-Jr> yes
07:00 <WingDark> KPaint?
07:00 <Luke-Jr> nemo has a webapp that draws maps as pictures
07:00 <WingDark> is that good?
07:00 <Luke-Jr> KPaint is like MS Paint
07:00 <Luke-Jr> you draw pictures and stuff
07:00 <Luke-Jr> anyway, I use the line tool
07:00 <WingDark> how do u draw them on paint?
07:00 <Luke-Jr> and when I'm done, I move my mouse over the points, and copy the coordinates approx
07:01 <WingDark> oh i get u
07:01 <WingDark> lol
07:01 <Luke-Jr> well, actually I do the last step a bit different
07:01 <Luke-Jr> I pretend I'm driving the walls
07:01 <WingDark> oh
07:01 <Luke-Jr> and write a program that makes the map
07:01 <Luke-Jr> by driving it
07:01 <WingDark> ok
07:01 <WingDark> say i was going to write a race server
07:02 <Luke-Jr> I know some people have scripts
07:02 <WingDark> how would i put them walls in the middle on?
07:02 <Luke-Jr> that automatically make maze maps
07:02 <WingDark> who?
07:02 <Luke-Jr> dunno who
07:02 <Luke-Jr> maybe wrtlprnft 
07:02 <WingDark> wrtlprmfl: do you?
07:05 <WingDark> no answer lol
07:09 <Luke-Jr> note you might need a real OS (read: not windows trash) to use it
07:09 <WingDark> thanks
07:09 <WingDark> lol
07:09 <WingDark> its not my fault i use windows
07:10 <WingDark> what are they ------------>             xdir="0"	ydir="1"
07:10 <WingDark> ?
07:10 <Luke-Jr> spawn direction
07:10 <Luke-Jr> obsolete spec tho
07:10 <Luke-Jr> it should be degrees="90" or such
07:10 <WingDark> eh?
07:11 <Luke-Jr> tho xdir/ydir have some advanced use cases still
07:11 <Luke-Jr> which way the cycle spawns facing
07:11 <WingDark> so its degrees?
07:11 <WingDark> x direction
07:11 <WingDark> and y direction
07:11 <WingDark> around 360 deg
07:11 <WingDark> ok
07:13 <Luke-Jr> it's either degrees OR xdir/ydir
07:14 <WingDark> give me an example plz
07:14 <Luke-Jr> degrees="90"
07:14 <Luke-Jr> or
07:14 <Luke-Jr> xdir="0" ydir="1"
07:14 <WingDark> oh
07:14 <WingDark> ok
07:14 <Luke-Jr> xdir/ydir are only useful for *very* advanced maos
07:14 <Luke-Jr> maps*
07:14 <WingDark> why do the poins come in groups of 4?
07:15 <Luke-Jr> that happens to be convenient on the map you're looking at
07:15 <WingDark> oh
07:15 <WingDark> lol
07:16 <WingDark> i know why
07:16 <WingDark> there spawn points
07:16 <WingDark> lol
07:17 <WingDark> what if i didnt include spawns?
07:18 <Luke-Jr> then the world explodes
07:18 <Luke-Jr> I think they're required
07:18 <WingDark> ok lol
07:18 <WingDark> how do you pick yours
07:18 <WingDark> ?
07:19 <WingDark> brb g2g for dinner
07:19 <WingDark> 10 minuites
07:33 <WingDark> im back now!
07:34 <Luke-Jr> o
07:34 <WingDark> how do you pick your spawn points then?
07:35 <WingDark> ?//
07:37 <Luke-Jr> randomly
07:39 <WingDark> how?
07:40 <Luke-Jr> guess
07:41 <WingDark> how can i guess just tell me lol
07:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: WingDark: It's not degrees!
07:52 <wrtlprnft> *insert comment about people who can't distinguish dimensions from units here*
07:52 <wrtlprnft> it's angle="" o_O
07:52 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Making_Maps_by_Hand
07:52 <wrtlprnft> that explains everything you need to know
07:53 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: it's not CYCLE_WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY, it's just WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY
07:53 <wrtlprnft> same with WALLS_LENGTH
07:54 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: yes, i have a script for my race server, but it's a shellscript and therefore doesn't run on MS Windows
07:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, is there any reason I can't put the code of my race server on SVN in .private?
07:57 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: 
07:58 <wrtlprnft> #news add 100000 is out: download it on http://beta.armagetronad.net/
07:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.  (News item #8 added)
07:58 <wrtlprnft> #news 8
07:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: download it on http://beta.armagetronad.net/ (Subject: " is out", added by wrtlprnft on 07:58 AM, June 04, 2006, expires at 11:45 AM, June 05, 2006)
07:58 <wrtlprnft> #news
07:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command; (#8) is out
07:58 <Luke-Jr> .
07:59 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: you mean ...?
07:59 <wrtlprnft> I wonder if i could actually get an answer ;)
07:59 <Luke-Jr> ...
08:00 <wrtlprnft> ....
08:02 <Luke-Jr> .....
08:02 <wrtlprnft> .....
08:03  * wrtlprnft would still prefer an answer
08:03 <Luke-Jr> ......
08:03 <Luke-Jr> what
08:03 <wrtlprnft> #last --with .private
08:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [07:57:17] <wrtlprnft> uh, is there any reason I can't put the code of my race server on SVN in .private?
08:05 <WingDark> duno
08:07 <Luke-Jr> .private?
08:07 <Luke-Jr> you mean /private?
08:07 <wrtlprnft> (look at my answers to your questions above=
08:07 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:08 <Luke-Jr> shrug, I don't see why not, just be sure to do a proper copy and all
08:08 <Luke-Jr> unless it's totally new code
08:08 <wrtlprnft> proper copy?
08:08 <wrtlprnft> is there something like svn cp?
08:11 <Luke-Jr> yes
08:12  * wrtlprnft should better read the svn book...
08:15 <Luke-Jr> svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private/wrtlprnft/RaceServer
08:15 <Luke-Jr> assuming it's trunk-based
08:15 <wrtlprnft> and then i just merge my code in?
08:15 <Luke-Jr> and assuming you already did svn mkdir https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private{,/wrtlprnft}
08:15 <Luke-Jr> err
08:15 <Luke-Jr> and assuming you already did svn mkdir https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private/wrtlprnft
08:15 <Luke-Jr> yes
08:16 <Luke-Jr> also assuming you don't have a RCS on your current code
08:16 <wrtlprnft> rcs?
08:16 <Luke-Jr> like cvs
08:16 <wrtlprnft> I currently have it in a trunk checkout
08:17 <wrtlprnft> so i can merge changes, i just can't commit
08:18 <Luke-Jr> ok, so yeah just copy trunk to private, checkout the private one, and merge into that
08:22 <z-man> What? Nooo, if he does that continuously, we'll have each trunk change twice.
08:22 <z-man> Don't copy the whole trunk.
08:22 <Luke-Jr> z-man: wtf?
08:22 <wrtlprnft> ...
08:22 <WingDark> right ive done the wall points!
08:22 <wrtlprnft> we already have every change thrice with Luke-Jr's copies
08:23 <z-man> Which copies?
08:23 <Luke-Jr> z-man: what are you talking about?
08:23 <wrtlprnft> CvS and MCP attack
08:23 <z-man> Those are branches, as far as i'm concerned.
08:24 <Luke-Jr> copies are branches
08:24 <z-man> wrtlprnft: I think you want something else.
08:24 <wrtlprnft> uh, what do i want then?
08:24 <z-man> I don't know :)
08:24 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:24  * Luke-Jr thinks wrtlprnft wants a branch =p
08:24 <z-man> You just want tour map making scripts in htere, right?
08:24 <wrtlprnft> np
08:24 <Luke-Jr> unless, of course, it's new code
08:24 <wrtlprnft> *no
08:24 <wrtlprnft> that's pig's shooting code
08:24 <z-man> You do actual changes to the game code?
08:25 <Luke-Jr> map making would be tools
08:25 <Luke-Jr> eventually, anyway
08:25 <wrtlprnft> which is used on my server
08:25 <z-man> Luke-Jr: yes
08:25 <z-man> Ah, right. That goes into a copy indeed.
08:25 <z-man> or branch.
08:25 <Luke-Jr> same thing
08:25 <z-man> whatever you want to call it :)
08:25 <wrtlprnft> people can lay mines on that server, and i don't want pig's stuff to just disappear
08:25 <Luke-Jr> darcs should implement copies/branches
08:25 <z-man> not all copies are branches :)
08:26 <Luke-Jr> all copies are branches
08:26 <Luke-Jr> just not necesarilly entire module branches
08:26 <wrtlprnft> which means that one day I'll have to transform it into subclasses of gZone
08:26 <Luke-Jr> did pig disappear?
08:26 <wrtlprnft> i haven't seen him
08:27 <wrtlprnft> if anyone sees him, ask him if he can give me the zombie code
08:27 <Luke-Jr> can players control their zombies? :)
08:27 <wrtlprnft> does that mean green light for the copy?
08:27 <wrtlprnft> no they can't
08:27 <Luke-Jr> aww
08:27 <z-man> Anyway, what we *don't* want in the private repository part is unneccesary doublication of changes. I'd advise against merging changes from the trunk into the private branches there.
08:28 <Luke-Jr> <.<
08:28 <wrtlprnft> well, then it'll be outdarted soon and get incompatible in a while
08:28 <wrtlprnft> *outdated
08:29 <z-man> For that purpuse, keeping the changes just in your checkout is better. You get every public change right away.
08:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
08:29  * Luke-Jr just finished merging MCP attack ;)
08:29 <z-man> In which direction?
08:29 <wrtlprnft> trunk->mcp
08:29 <Luke-Jr> up to date on branch
08:30 <wrtlprnft> or branch->mcp, whatever
08:30 <Luke-Jr> merging to 0.2.8 branch was difficult
08:30 <Luke-Jr> so I just updated
08:30 <z-man> Point is, if you do this merging for every side project, you'll tripple our space usage
08:30 <z-man> (in the long run)
08:31 <Luke-Jr> fun, hope darcs fixes their showstoppers
08:31 <z-man> It wouldn't be a problem with darcs, of course :)
08:31 <z-man> which showstoppers?
08:31 <Luke-Jr> I should make a list of them
08:31 <Luke-Jr> 1. branches/copies
08:31 <z-man> Probably :)
08:31 <z-man> are handled outside of darcs.
08:31 <Luke-Jr> 2. checkout only a subdirectory
08:32 <Luke-Jr> no
08:32 <z-man> use many darcs repositories.
08:32 <z-man> yes
08:32 <Luke-Jr> that's repositories
08:32 <Luke-Jr> not branches/copies
08:32 <z-man> In darcs, copy != branch, but repository == branch
08:32 <z-man> get that into your head :)
08:32 <Luke-Jr> what if I want to branch gGame.cpp into gGameA.cpp and gGameB.cpp ?
08:33 <Luke-Jr> branches need not apply to entire directories
08:33 <z-man> Ah,  the history fanatic speaks again
08:33 <Luke-Jr> nor are they necessarily isolated
08:33 <z-man> But they make most sense if they do.
08:33 <Luke-Jr> not always
08:34  * z-man isn't in the mood to discuss any of that, actually
08:34 <Luke-Jr> branching of individual files is what is commonly called "copying" in other SCMs
08:34 <WingDark> u know this for the map files
08:35 <WingDark> <Spawn	x="245"	y="450"	xdir="0"	ydir="-1"	/>
08:35 <WingDark> the xdir and ydir
08:35 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Making_Maps_by_Hand#Spawn_points
08:35 <WingDark> which ways do certain values make the bike face?
08:35 <Luke-Jr> told you not to worry about xdir/ydir...
08:35 <WingDark> oh yeah
08:35 <WingDark> lol
08:35 <Luke-Jr> use angle
08:36  * wrtlprnft things xdir/ydir is more clear
08:36 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: only for 4 axis
08:36 <WingDark> mine is only 4 axis
08:36 <wrtlprnft> with angles you mave to memorize where the 0 axis is, and if they go clockwise or counterclockwise
08:37 <wrtlprnft> so what? if you have 6 axes angles are still easier
08:37 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: with xdir/ydir, you need to memorize which directions are positive and which are negative ;)
08:37 <WingDark> so what shall i use???
08:37 <Luke-Jr> WingDark: angles =p
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=0 ydir=1
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=1 ydir=1
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=1 ydir=-1
08:37 <WingDark> i kno which positive a negatives are
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=0 ydir=-1
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=-1 ydir=-1
08:37 <wrtlprnft> xdir=-1 ydir=1
08:37 <wrtlprnft> there you have 6 axes
08:37 <WingDark> i only want 4
08:37 <WingDark> lol
08:38 <WingDark> which do i use
08:38 <wrtlprnft> positive is up or right
08:38 <wrtlprnft> so xdir="1" means right
08:38 <wrtlprnft> so xdir="-1" means left
08:38 <WingDark> ok
08:38 <wrtlprnft> so ydir="1" means up
08:38 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: those are uneven, I think
08:38 <wrtlprnft> so ydir="-1" means down
08:38 <WingDark> ok thnx alot m8
08:38 <wrtlprnft> and combine them
08:38 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i know they are
08:38 <WingDark> for diagonals
08:38 <wrtlprnft> but they get mapped to the nearest axis ;)
08:39 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: lazy map maker!
08:39 <WingDark> lol
08:39 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: for 4 axes, only set one of them to 1 or -1, the rest to 0
08:39 <Luke-Jr> 0,1;0,-1;-1,0;1,0
08:39 <Luke-Jr> hm
08:40 <Luke-Jr> someone should make a 8 axes map with
08:40 <Luke-Jr> 0,1;0,0;0,-1;0,0;-1,0;0,0;1,0;0,0
08:40 <wrtlprnft> 0,0?
08:40 <Luke-Jr> no movement
08:40 <WingDark> lol
08:40 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work
08:41 <Luke-Jr> why not?
08:41 <Luke-Jr> normalize="0"
08:41 <wrtlprnft> hmm, true
08:41 <wrtlprnft> but the direction the cycle faces would be random
08:41 <Luke-Jr> hehe
08:42 <wrtlprnft> probably not random, just up
08:42 <wrtlprnft> but undefined ;)
08:50 <WingDark> <!DOCTYPE Resource SYSTEM "map-0.2.8_beta3.dtd">
08:50 <WingDark> what do i want to put in that?
08:50 <WingDark> do i need to change anything
08:51 <WingDark> ????
08:52 <WingDark> what shall i change this to ------> map-0.2.8_beta3.dtd
08:52 <WingDark> ???
08:54 <spidey> man
08:54 <spidey> i hate ~most~ fortress players
08:54 <spidey> sp ingeneral
08:55 <spidey> i play maybe 2 rounds per match cause of them :/
08:55 <WingDark> lol
08:56 <spidey> seriously,it's like they can't see the big letters "BREAK!!!"
08:56 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: don't change it at all
08:56 <WingDark> y not?
08:57 <MaZuffeR> people in general break much later than necessary
08:58 <MaZuffeR> i do to :/
08:58 <spidey> yea maz,but i've never died cause of you
08:59 <MaZuffeR> that's because i never doublegrind
08:59 <spidey> finally demon switched to my left
08:59 <spidey> snow i live :D
08:59  * spidey distracts wrtlprnft 
08:59 <spidey> wrtl , did this popup kill you :p
09:05 <WingDark> do i need to include this?
09:05 <WingDark> 				<Axes number="4">
09:05 <WingDark> 					<Axis xdir="1" ydir="1"/>
09:05 <WingDark> 					<Axis xdir="1" ydir="-1"/>
09:05 <WingDark> 					<Axis xdir="-1" ydir="-1"/>
09:05 <WingDark> 					<Axis xdir="-1" ydir="1"/>
09:05 <WingDark> 				</Axes>
09:06 <WingDark> oh
09:06 <WingDark> no
09:06 <WingDark> that would give me diagonals lol
09:07 <WingDark> if i want it to be normal axis like the plain square map do i just forget the axis bit?
09:07 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873F84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
09:11 <WingDark> wrtlprnft
09:19 <wrtlprnft> spidey: i didn't see any popup
09:19  * wrtlprnft uses irssi
09:19 <WingDark> wrtlprnft: ive finished the map
09:19 <wrtlprnft> WingDark: just say <Axes number="4" />
09:20 <WingDark> do i even need it in?
09:20 <wrtlprnft> if they're standard axes (up, right, down, left) you can omit actually specifying them
09:20 <wrtlprnft> I dunno
09:20 <WingDark> ok
09:20 <WingDark> ill test it
09:20 <WingDark> brb
09:20 <wrtlprnft> no, you can omit it, it seems
09:20 <wrtlprnft> at least the DTD allows it
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--- Log opened Sun Jun 04 09:27:58 2006
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09:28 <WingDark> hi guys
09:28 <spidey> i'm leaving tuesday
09:28 <spidey> for a weel
09:28 <spidey> week
09:28 <WingDark> Luke-Jr: ive fished the file
09:28 <WingDark> finished*
09:28 <WingDark> lol
09:29 <wrtlprnft> everyone's leaving?
09:29 <WingDark> where?
09:29 <WingDark> and why?
09:29 <WingDark> and who?
09:29 <WingDark> lol
09:30 <wrtlprnft> g2g
09:33 <WingDark> e
09:33 <WingDark> bye*
09:33 <spidey> lol
09:34 <spidey> i'm going to my moms
09:36 <spidey> i think i'll enjoy it in fortress
09:36 <spidey> my ping should be alot better
09:37 <spidey> it's like 150miles closer to the server and the connection she has is better
09:48 <WingDark> cool
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10:10 <MaZuffeR> spidey: the stupid noobs dont know how to grind tight enough
10:13 <spidey> yea maz
10:13 <spidey> i can tell
10:14 <spidey> atleast you usually kill me :(
10:15 <spidey> these guys ruined my mood 9 hours ago
10:35 <MaZuffeR> my connection died again :(
10:36  * spidey sighs
10:36 <spidey> the guys should be banned from the internet
10:37 <MaZuffeR> i'm very good at not getting annoyed, so they don't bother me
10:38 <spidey> i think this 1 week break will do me good
10:39 <spidey> si can only take so much :/
10:40 <MaZuffeR> someone should set up a private fortress and give the ip only to the "good" players
10:40 <MaZuffeR> it's so much more fun without noobs
10:41 <spidey> yea,i could set one up
10:41 <spidey> but most the good players wouldn't come
10:41 <spidey> only places i know that have tron hosting are american
10:42 <spidey> pings would be high for most of tehm
10:42 <spidey> and if i hosted it they'd be really high
10:42 <spidey> joda said his was over 1k
10:43 <MaZuffeR> got you four last lines at once :/ damn connection
10:43 <MaZuffeR> 1k is a bit too high ;)
10:43 <spidey> hehe
10:43 <spidey> yea,but people in the US have around 60-90 ping on my connection
10:45 <spidey> then again,i won't be able to buy tron hosting
10:45 <spidey> i'm paying for a 32 soldat server now
10:45 <spidey> and will be getting another 32 slot one in a few weeks
10:45 <MaZuffeR> 32? that's a lot of people in soldat
10:45 <spidey> yea
10:46 <spidey> but 18 of them are bots
10:46 <spidey> you play soldat?
10:46 <MaZuffeR> oh ok
10:46 <MaZuffeR> haven't played in year or so
10:46 <spidey> should :)
10:46  * spidey started a clan :/
10:46 <MaZuffeR> i suck at it
10:46 <spidey> will have a total of 4 servers
10:46 <spidey> 2 of them on a 1 gig connection with 32 slots
10:47 <spidey> then me and damien's gonna host one,each will have 6-8 slots
10:47 <MaZuffeR> i was part of a clan, we all sucked
10:47 <spidey> lol
10:48 <spidey> i really don't care how good the people are
10:48 <spidey> if we like them,we invite them
10:48 <spidey> i don't want a group full of assholes/morons
10:48 <spidey> it's bad on soldat,i have a 184 banlist
10:49 <spidey> that's just from 1 month
10:49 <MaZuffeR> it isn't fun if you get all your kills by luck
10:49 <spidey> we got 1 death match server,1 ctf server
10:50 <spidey> 1 "zombie" ctf
10:50 <spidey> basically,18 bots on 1 team that look like zombies and have chainsaws
10:50 <MaZuffeR> heh
10:50 <spidey> then a 10 player max
10:50 <spidey> the rest of those slots are used for admins
10:50 <spidey> cause the server don't count them as a person,but the program running in the hosts backgournd does
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10:53 <spidey> wanna come play maz? :p
10:53 <MaZuffeR> soldat? i have to install it first
10:53 <spidey> :d
10:56 <spidey> hey manta,you got a mic?
10:57 <MaZuffeR> done, what server?
10:58 <spidey> look for (WM)|FA| Decaying Zombies
10:58 <spidey> you in?
10:59 <MaZuffeR> it's full
10:59 <spidey> you're ip 201.xxx ?
10:59 <spidey> nvm see ya
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12:52 <spidey> lol maz,that group didn't like me very much xD
12:52 <MaZuffeR> no
12:53 <spidey> i think that's the first group i haven't got along good with
12:54 <MaZuffeR> i didn't suck as much as i thought i would
12:54 <joda_bot> spidey: MaZuffeR: What are you talking about ?
12:54 <MaZuffeR> soldat
12:54 <spidey> soldat
12:54 <spidey> :)
12:54 <MaZuffeR> my hand hurts now :/
12:54 <spidey> you was doing great maz,had more points than me :p
12:57 <spidey> k i'm off to bed,cua
12:57 <MaZuffeR> g'night
12:58 <spidey> it's only 1;02 pm,but that's my bedtime xD
12:58 <spidey> cya,lol
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16:03 <wrtlprnft> GL_DONT_CARE?!
16:04 <wrtlprnft> nice constant
16:20 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i have that feeling too
16:20 <z-man> darn CIA.
16:20 <wrtlprnft> when i changed rFont.h it didn't recompile anythung, i had to do a make clean
16:20 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:21 <z-man> you're reading the logs as I write them again :)
16:21 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:21 <wrtlprnft> well, the logs can't change once you committed, right?
16:22 <z-man> we're definitely running automake without the -i option which turns off dependency tracking. I don't know what's wrong.
16:22 <wrtlprnft> maybe it can't find the includes?
16:22 <z-man> No, they can't change, but I wasn't finished committing todays work.
16:22 <wrtlprnft> uh, sorry
16:22 <z-man> Hmm, maybe. I'll keep an eye on that.
16:22 <z-man> nvm
16:23  * wrtlprnft will add a 5- minute delay to refer to log messages
16:23 <z-man> hehe
16:28 <z-man> Hmm, it's definitely calling depcomp
16:28 <wrtlprnft> do those log messages mean we will get a
16:28 <z-man> Some time, yes.
16:28 <z-man> But these changes will have to be hatched on the bugfarm a bit :)
16:29 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure
16:29 -!- [NP]Tangent[c] is now known as [NP]Tangent
16:29 <z-man> There is also another voting change, I want to prevent players from coming in and issuing a kick vote right away
16:29 <wrtlprnft> any chance you can update one of the servers to CVS HEAD?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> so we get bugs there, too
16:30 <wrtlprnft> that /msg hang survived waaay too long IMHO
16:30 <z-man> Perhaps I can update sumo.
16:30 <wrtlprnft> s/CVS HEAD/trunk/
16:30 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:32 <z-man> cat src/.deps/libtron_a-gCycleMovement.Po
16:32 <z-man> # dummy
16:32 <z-man> hmm
16:33 <wrtlprnft> that file doesn't even exist for me
16:35 <z-man> DEPDIR=.deps depmode=none /bin/sh ../../../../armagetronad/depcomp
16:35 <z-man> depmode=none doesn't look too good.
16:35 <z-man> (MAKE output)
16:41 <z-man> Ah, riddle solved. remove config.cache and run "./config-status --recheck"
16:42 <z-man> If you checked out your working copy right at the beginning, bootstrap.sh disabled dependencies because you were not working with CVS
16:42 <z-man> and configure caches that.
16:42 <z-man> Oh, and you have to rerun bootstrap.sh before all that.
16:42  * z-man goes to post this on the forum
16:54 <wrtlprnft> thanks :)
16:55 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/61879
16:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, the last line is a joke, right?
16:55 <wrtlprnft> it should either see i'm in the wrong dir and correct it or fail with an error message
16:56 <wrtlprnft> find .. -name config.cache
16:56 <wrtlprnft> empty result...
16:57 <z-man> really?
16:57 <z-man> "build directory" == top level build directory
16:57 <z-man> there should be a config.cache there.
16:58 <wrtlprnft> i searched the entire tree
16:59 <z-man> Err, you need to run bootstrap.sh from its own directory
16:59 <z-man> cd armagetronad; ./bootstrap.sh
16:59 <wrtlprnft> i have the checkout in ~/armagetronad3/armagetronad and build directories in ~/armagetronad3/armagetronad/build2 and ~/armagetronad3/armagetronad/ded
17:00 <wrtlprnft> that's what i did after the first one failed
17:00 <z-man> But the output is not the second log you posted, right?
17:01 <z-man> Maybe you can get away with just "./config.status --recheck"
17:01 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/61881
17:02 <z-man> if the checks don't show "(cached)" all of the time, you'll be fine.
17:02 <z-man> Complain about the warnings with the people who underquote their definitions :)
17:02  * z-man has edited all his system files so they go away.
17:03 <wrtlprnft> but they don't do anything bad, do they?
17:03 <z-man> no
17:04 <guru3> i broke h.264 playback on my desktop somehow :/
17:04 <wrtlprnft> uh, it doesn't make a difference that I'm running the trunk, right?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/61882
17:04 <z-man> it shouldn't
17:04 <z-man> checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3
17:04 <z-man> yep, you should be fine now.
17:05 <wrtlprnft> but look at the bottom half...
17:05 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ touch ../src/render/rFont.h
17:05 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ make        
17:05 <wrtlprnft> and it doesn't compile anything
17:05 <z-man> Oh, I forgot 'make clean"
17:05 <z-man> the depfiles are only generated when files are compiled
17:05 <wrtlprnft> ah
17:13 <wrtlprnft> ok, seems to work now, thanks again :)
17:17 <z-man> np
17:18 <z-man> bedtime again
17:18  * z-man notices he was marked away all the time
17:18 <joda_bot> z-man: time for one question ?
17:18 <z-man> sure
17:18 <joda_bot> ok, I've been thinking about the build system for all platforms today
17:19 <joda_bot> My observation is that currently the build system is dependand on perl and python + bash
17:19 <joda_bot> perl for automake/autoconf
17:19 <joda_bot> and python for sortresources
17:19 <z-man> automake is perl?
17:19 <joda_bot> yes
17:19 <joda_bot> bash for general scripting and perhaps autoconf
17:20 <z-man> add m4 to the list ;)
17:20 <joda_bot> So there is no documentation on windows which is not a good thing
17:20 <joda_bot> yeah, m4 ... I'm not sure yet where to put it in
17:20 <joda_bot> but I thought it was part of autoconf ?
17:20 <z-man> No, its independent.
17:20 <z-man> autoconf uses it.
17:20 <z-man> (and the documentation)
17:21 <joda_bot> My suggestion would be to try to minizie dependencies
17:21 <joda_bot> I'll investigate if the docs can be compiled to a CHM easily
17:21 <z-man> CHM?
17:21 <joda_bot> Windows Helpfile format
17:22 <z-man> Ah that.
17:23 <z-man> We should probably move the docs over to a different source format. Raw HTML with m4 macros just isn't the right thing for everyone.
17:23 <joda_bot> yeah might be
17:23 <z-man> Docbook or doxygen would work, or this wiki-like thing Lucifer dug up a while ago
17:23 <joda_bot> But I'd also want to investigate if the python build depency can be moved to perl too
17:23 <wrtlprnft> why can't we include a copy of the wiki?
17:24 <wrtlprnft> just the actual pages, shouldn't be too big
17:24 <joda_bot> and then I'm thinking about using gnuwin32 packages for m4 perhaps
17:24 <joda_bot> but I have to check on that
17:24 <z-man> I'd wait with that. Maybe python will be required anyway.
17:24 <joda_bot> z-man: AFAIK pyhton will be used for scripting which is not neccessary to build the game
17:24 <z-man> wrtlprnft: if you write the mirror source, sure, we can include wiki snapshots.
17:25 <joda_bot> so keep the build system requirements low increases portability ?
17:25 <joda_bot> keep*ing*
17:25 <joda_bot> that's the whole point of it
17:25 <z-man> But what's the use in *not* requiring something for building you require for running?
17:26 <joda_bot> z-man: If it's really unreplaceable I'm fine with that
17:26 <wrtlprnft> can't we run sortresources.py before releases?
17:26 <z-man> wrtlprnft: we're doing that
17:26 <joda_bot> but if with a sane effort the requirements can be reduced that should simplfy it ?
17:26 <wrtlprnft> oh, ok
17:26 <wrtlprnft> so python is just needed for the SVN sources?
17:27 <z-man> joda_bot: yes, but the current system is working :) I see no need in changing a script from one language to another.
17:27 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, we can expect people to have more software installed when they want to build from SVN
17:27 <z-man> Right.
17:27 <wrtlprnft> so we can require python as well
17:28 <z-man> Hey, now that we're on SVN, we can actually move the files around in the repository!
17:29 <joda_bot> z-man: wrtlprnft: you are saying that python is only needed to build armagetron right ?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it's only needed to build from SVN
17:29 <joda_bot> or is python an essential part of subversion 
17:29 <z-man> So they don't have to be move again, and you get by without sortresources.py as long as you don't touch the resources.
17:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
17:29 <wrtlprnft> but then i need two log entries for changing a resource file?
17:29 <joda_bot> heh, even easier ;)
17:29 <z-man> joda_bot: we're saying that if you get your sources from a tarball, you don't need python.
17:30 <wrtlprnft> first i need to move it, then i need to do the actual changes
17:30 <z-man> wrtlprnft: no, you just edit it. sortresources takes over the rest.
17:30 <z-man> It is extensible to do other things than just "mv a b", it can just as well call "svn mv a b"
17:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but it will produce two kog entries
17:31 <wrtlprnft> *log
17:31 <joda_bot> z-man: does subversion detect a resource being moved ?
17:31 <joda_bot> or do you have to tell it to move it ?
17:31 <z-man> wrtlprnft: only one log entry.
17:31 <wrtlprnft> if you say so, ok
17:31 <z-man> joda_bot: it doesn't detect it, but it can handle it if you tell it they got moved.
17:32 <joda_bot> z-man: good to know
17:32 <z-man> wrtlprnft: of course, the log entry will be "file moved and changed" if you look at it closer, but "svn log" won't show that by default.
17:37 <joda_bot> z-man: Did you replace @progtitle@ in language.txt by hand ?
17:37 <z-man> I can't remember what the unix system does with that :)
17:38 <joda_bot> it replaces it by "ArmagetronAd" I guess
17:38 <joda_bot> but it does not work on windows (obviously)
17:38 <z-man> Ah, no, I don't replace it by hand. It's autoconf'ed.
17:38 <joda_bot> z-man: I'm talking about the windows builds ?
17:39 <z-man> My method always was that I tolerate certain... quirks in the Windows SVN build
17:39 <joda_bot> z-man: do you build them on the shell ?
17:39 <joda_bot> hehe
17:39 <z-man> No, my Windows builds also have strange menus
17:39 <joda_bot> How do you build the release versions ?
17:39 <z-man> The real builds get created from a source zip created in Unix.
17:40 <z-man> The script is in the build module.
17:40 <joda_bot> btw. I send bobby an email to see what his problems with the newer versions are
17:40 <joda_bot> bobby complained about newer releases being too buggy
17:40 <joda_bot> ah
17:41 <z-man> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/scripts/winsrc?view=markup&rev=4612
17:41 <joda_bot> hm
17:41 <z-man> who is bobby?
17:41 <z-man> There is more work done around the script from the makefile, for example the documentation.
17:42 <z-man> (as you can guess from the tons of parameters)
17:42 <joda_bot> a player who complained on armagetron.nixda.net
17:42 <joda_bot> ^^ bobby
17:42 <joda_bot> z-man: but the releases did not include docs upto now
17:42 <joda_bot> the directory was always empty
17:42 <z-man> They didn't?
17:43 <z-man> I remember they were forgotten in and at first
17:43 <joda_bot> had it
17:43 <z-man> But I do hope that is fixed now :)
17:44 <joda_bot> 
17:44 <joda_bot> index.html 
17:44 <joda_bot> wiki.txt 
17:44 <joda_bot> move timestamp.txt
17:44 <joda_bot> seems to be ok now
17:44 <z-man> You can also try to get this bobby to post his complaints in the nixda forum and ping me to the tread.
17:44 <joda_bot> The html doc is probably better than a CHM file ;)
17:44 <joda_bot> nice thing that works now
17:45 <joda_bot> z-man: I'm already trying to get the neccessary info ;)
17:45 <z-man> Depends. We oculd open the CHM from within the game when you press F1 or something.
17:45 <joda_bot> btw did anyone of you try to play on older server with 0.2.8.x ?
17:45 <z-man> (not that I would know how)
17:46 <joda_bot> well the lag / issues make me stop playing older servers more or less
17:46 <z-man> Not with the release itself, but I was using the branch all the time.
17:46 <joda_bot> Which is fine for me, but many old school players probably stick to because of that
17:46 <z-man> And I do occasionally visit Tigers and Icemans
17:46 <joda_bot> z-man: ok, that should not matter
17:47 <z-man> Perhaps the Speeders type servers are more affected. You know my mantra there: dubdidubdidu-give me a recording and I see what I can do.
17:47 <z-man> Not actually a mantra.
17:47 <joda_bot> z-man: without a server side thing it will be difficult I guess
17:48 <z-man> Not too much.
17:48 <joda_bot> ok, I'll tell players to record their issues then ;)
17:48 <joda_bot> Will make you drown perhaps :-P
17:48 <z-man> Prediction problems can be figured out by a clientside recording alone, the server sends over what he thinks happened :)
17:48 <joda_bot> I'll try to envforce short recordings ;)
17:48 <z-man> That would be nice.
17:49 <joda_bot> z-man: I changed the codeblocks build/armgetronad source to use the resoucrce icon of the exe
17:49 <joda_bot> That should be done for Visual C too
17:49 <joda_bot> The icon.png is obsolete then for windows
17:50 <z-man> You mean the good-looking icon is now also set in Windows? Cools.
17:50 <z-man> -s
17:50 <joda_bot> I also added about 10 icons for armagetron to exe
17:51 <joda_bot> all different color depth / size combinations of the yellow cycle logo
17:51 <joda_bot> I'll move that stuff to win_libs soon ..
17:52 <joda_bot> Does win_libs/res/icons sound good to you ?
17:52 <z-man> On second thought, they can also stay in the codeblocks build files.
17:52 <joda_bot> The res folder would also contain the other common build stuff ?
17:52 <z-man> It doesn't really matter. With K switching to code::blocks as well, nobody is using visualc any more.
17:53 <joda_bot> well, we can still keep build_visual c around and update it once someone else prefers to use visual_c ?
17:53 <z-man> Do whatever you want with them :)
17:54 <joda_bot> One other question, would be ok to lock the name in "language.txt.in" to Armagetron Advanced ?
17:54 <z-man> I'll try to get the visualC stuff working again (the master already compiles) and try to keep it up to date.
17:54 <joda_bot> instead of using "@progtitle@" ?
17:54 <z-man> No :) Right now, everyone can easily create a fork by just changing the name in one place, or running configure a special way.
17:55 <joda_bot> If the file is missing the name will fall back to "Armagetron" ;)
17:55 <z-man> But if you don't find an easy way to handle that in Windows, sure, hardocde it.
17:55 <joda_bot> it's not hardcoded ;)
17:55  * z-man is too dired for nitpicks :)
17:56 <z-man> hardcoded in the sense that it's coded in a way that makes it hard to change :)
17:56 <joda_bot> right... I should not nitpick ... 
17:56 <z-man> save that for Luke :)
17:56 <joda_bot> z-man: Currently I found it difficult to track the place where the name comes from
17:56 <joda_bot> ;)
17:57 <joda_bot> but I'm fine if you prefer language.txt to keep the @progtitle@...
17:57 <joda_bot> I'll check about using autoconf, automake or m4
17:58 <z-man> Good luck.
17:58  * z-man would love to be able to cross-compile the Windows builds from Linux
17:59 <z-man> Ok, really bedtime now, I'm haluzinating again :)
18:04 <z-man> #night
18:04 <armabot> Good night z-man!
18:06 <joda_bot> good night
18:11 <wrtlprnft> uh, now that we have the local /command thingy, what about a /nick?
18:11 <wrtlprnft> just as an alias for /command PLAYER_!
18:11 <wrtlprnft> just as an alias for /command PLAYER_1
18:11 <wrtlprnft> or PLAYER_X where X is the player who used the command
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18:32  * Lucifer_arma is back.
18:32 <wrtlprnft> wb
18:33 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: how about moving the console commands to a extra file ?
18:33 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:33 <wrtlprnft> what do you mean?
18:33 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: It's all still inside ePlayer.cpp
18:33 <joda_bot> make a eConsole.cpp which handles the different chat commands
18:34 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't that be eChatCommand?
18:34  * Lucifer_arma is generally in favor of work that turns armagetron into a lot of simple files vs a few complicated files
18:34 <wrtlprnft> I'd prefer the nonsense name static names approach
18:34 <wrtlprnft> like the config system
18:34 <wrtlprnft> so you can register the commands and have them anywhere
18:35 <wrtlprnft> and at the same time add a way to get things called everytime a new round/match etc starts
18:35 <wrtlprnft> that would move lots of stuff out of gGame
18:36 <joda_bot> well I don't mind another solution, but to have all console commands in one place has also advantages
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> that kinda makes sense, although it probably needs to look more like the cockpit callbacks
18:36 <joda_bot> because you know where to start from
18:37 <Lucifer_arma> that way a given game component can provide its own commands to be used
18:37 <wrtlprnft> exactly
18:37 <Lucifer_arma> moving all console commands to one place would be an important first step to what wrtlprnft's talking about :)
18:37 <Lucifer_arma> right, but the component probably needs to provide a callback rather than a value.  Config system provides a value, cockpit system provides a callback.  ;)
18:37 <wrtlprnft> are you talking about the / commands or the console
18:38 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:38 <wrtlprnft> you'd do something like this:
18:38 <wrtlprnft> static void somenonsensenamefunction() {
18:38 <wrtlprnft> no
18:38 <wrtlprnft> static void somenonsensenamefunction(tString const &params) {
18:39 <wrtlprnft> //do something here
18:39 <wrtlprnft> }
18:39 <wrtlprnft> static ChatCommand blah("consoleCommand", &somenonsensenamefunction);
18:40 <wrtlprnft> and everytime you enter /consoleCommand that function will be called
18:40 <wrtlprnft> ChatCommand has to self- register itself in some deque, of course
18:41 <wrtlprnft> like rPerFrameTasks ;)
18:41 <wrtlprnft> and there would be two different ones, one that gets interpreted on the server and one that gets interpreted on the server
18:42 <wrtlprnft> s/server/client/
18:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: In my opinion this is a lazy way to do it , but it does not enforce more structure
18:42 <wrtlprnft> structure? I just want to keep everything that has the same job in the same files
18:43 <joda_bot> if all console commands are collected in a single place, you can easily see their dependencies and their effects are more obvious (to me)
18:43 <joda_bot> ah ok
18:43 <wrtlprnft> so all team managment would be in eTeam
18:43 <wrtlprnft> including the chat commands
18:43 <joda_bot> Ah now I understand you approach
18:43 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:43 <joda_bot> hm
18:43  * wrtlprnft would probably stay in ePlayer
18:44 <wrtlprnft> /me would probably stay in ePlayer
18:44 <wrtlprnft> that's what i meant ;)
18:44 <joda_bot> no, I don't like that
18:44 <joda_bot> ok, will take some time to explain ;)
18:44  * wrtlprnft listens
18:44  * Lucifer_arma wants to be moved to rSDL.h
18:44 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:45 <wrtlprnft> i meant the "/me" command
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> I know.  :)
18:45  * Lucifer_arma will wait until joda explains to read it--cooking dinner and stuff.
18:45 <wrtlprnft> hard to talk about irc style commands in irc eh?
18:45 <wrtlprnft> o_O I'm getting canadianized
18:46 <joda_bot> sorry, got distracted
18:46 <wrtlprnft> if it's long put it on the forums or the wiki, i'd say
18:46 <joda_bot> lol no
18:47 <joda_bot> It's more or less about design
18:47 <joda_bot> Make it a component
18:47 <joda_bot> You have a kind of chat command component
18:47 <joda_bot> which has different "plugins" or instructions
18:47 <joda_bot> If you keep them all in one place you can easily tell what all the commands affect
18:47 <wrtlprnft> hmm
18:48 <wrtlprnft> so you want all the config items in tConfiguration.cpp to keep them all in one place?
18:48 <joda_bot> e.g. you can tell that no command will depend on rRender perhaps
18:49 <joda_bot> well, you're right there that makes it more complicated probably 
18:49 <joda_bot> I was more or less thinking about the chat commands at the moment
18:49 <wrtlprnft> what i'm proposing works exactly like the config items
18:50 <joda_bot> The configuration items, well I'd really like to have ONE  place for them, but putting them in one place get a include list of all the game
18:50 <joda_bot> so it's sword with two edges (at least)
18:50 <joda_bot> hm
18:50 <wrtlprnft> I just think having that static-global-object concept is more extension friendly
18:50 <joda_bot> Perhaps we should separate configitems and settings (menu changeable options)
18:51 <wrtlprnft> you can just add a file like the HUD and don't have to change anything ekse
18:51 <wrtlprnft> *else
18:51 <joda_bot> well it's not object oriented design, but it's not always the best choice anyway
18:52 <joda_bot> ok, perhaps both things can be combined to a degree
18:52 <joda_bot> leave all config items in the diverse files
18:53 <joda_bot> but collect them at the end of the file
18:53 <joda_bot> with their corresponding implementations right above (or in between not sure what is better for overview?)
18:54 <wrtlprnft> you know about the --doc option?
18:54 <wrtlprnft> we might add something for the chat commands as well
18:54 <joda_bot> probably not ;)
18:54 <wrtlprnft> try running arma with --doc
18:54 <joda_bot> I don't mind every configitem to have a chat command alias
18:54 <wrtlprnft> nononoo, please not
18:54 <joda_bot> an optional chat command alias
18:54 <joda_bot> ;)
18:55 <joda_bot> running or building ?
18:55 <wrtlprnft> I meant real chat commands
18:55 <wrtlprnft> just call the binary with it
18:55 <wrtlprnft> like /me and /teamshuffle
18:55 <joda_bot> oh, damn you're talking about "/me" and "/msg" ?
18:55 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:55 <joda_bot> well teamshuffle is not chat related
18:55 <wrtlprnft> exactly
18:55 <joda_bot> and affects the game
18:56 <wrtlprnft> that's why i want it in eTeam
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm, ok.  I think the console is ultimately going to be replaced by an event loop
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> so we'll have a component that intercepts "chat", parses it for commands and then sends events for commands
18:56 <wrtlprnft> that was fast supper
18:56 <wrtlprnft> LuciEatsPeopleFast
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> if it doesn't have a command, then it sends a chat event instead
18:56  * joda_bot can't beat Lucifer_arma typing
18:56  * Lucifer_arma hasn't eaten yet, just looked around
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> so the distinction between chat and console input will disappear, it'll just be a UI thing
18:57 <joda_bot> hm, not sure if events are not a overhead for this
18:57 <wrtlprnft> why don't we have a tronic fork?
18:57 <wrtlprnft> or tronic knife first?
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, everything is going to go into events at some point.
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> game events and ui events.
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> it makes sense to run this through events *when they're there*
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> however, I can't promise that'll be the best way to handle chat commands
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> what we have right now is an object (I forget its name) that does take commands
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> aha, it is tConfItemBase that does it
18:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess I'll think about the chat command and their effects a bit more
18:59 <joda_bot> ;)
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> tConfItemBase::LoadAll()
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> so what I think would be best, personally, is to change the console input widget to be a chat widget that automatically prepends "/console" to whatever is typed
18:59 <wrtlprnft> it finds the correct config item from a list and calls a member of it
19:00 <joda_bot> but having a kind of plugin/callback registry for chat commands like for tConfigItem is a good thing anyway
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, gotta move on to cook dinner, wash dishes, etc.
19:00 <wrtlprnft> I always saw chat commands more as a hack...
19:00 <wrtlprnft> *helpful* take a dump?
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> that's because they are :)
19:00 <joda_bot> take a dump ?!?! what are you talking about ?
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> but we'd like them to be formalized and properly integrated, too.  :)  Think access permissions and delegation
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> he says "take a dump" is part of "etc"
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> which it probably is :)
19:01 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: about Lucifer_arma's problems what to do first
19:01 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
19:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
19:09 <n54> lol wrtlprnft ^^
19:10 <joda_bot> seems like I missed the joke ;)
19:10 <joda_bot> "take a dump" means ?
19:10 <joda_bot> jump into the trash ?
19:10 <GodTodd> take a shit
19:11 <joda_bot> oh alright
19:11 <n54> Lucifer is always wondering if he should do the dishes then take a dump or the other way around - that's the joke ^^
19:11 <joda_bot> ah ok
19:11 <n54> or more like a tease actually
19:11 <n54> since he's been asking more than once for advice on the matter ^^
19:12 <GodTodd> get a spacesuit...then you don't have to worry about order ;)
19:12 <n54> tht sounds like a sticky solution hehe
19:12  * joda_bot thinks about lucifer entertaining the masses ;)
19:12 <GodTodd> sticky, huh?  what have you been eating? ;)
19:14 <n54> wouldn't matter much now would it GodTodd? ^^
19:15 <GodTodd> :D
19:29 <joda_bot> gn8
19:29 <joda_bot> #topic has been released!
19:29 <joda_bot> :-)
19:30 <joda_bot> #message Luci* change topic to has been ... ;)
19:30 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
19:30 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-033-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
19:35 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:37 <wrtlprnft> guru3: would you mind changing the topic to " has been..."?
19:38 <n54> he's asleep, I'm sure he'll do it at opportunity
19:39 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i'm just sending him that wake thing so he changes it before it is 2 weeks old :P
19:39 <n54> oh ok
19:39 <wrtlprnft> I think LuciEatsPeople posted it in the forums somewhere, maybe tank just didn't read it
19:40 <n54> well it's 0241 over here, not sure when it was posted
19:40 <wrtlprnft> i think it was the day before yesterday your time
19:40 <wrtlprnft> saturday
19:42 <n54> oh... it's monday already :|
19:42 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:42 <wrtlprnft> I thought chronic fatigue had something to do with feeling tired, why aren't you sleeping? j/k
19:43 <n54> not that simple, and it's not exactly the same as cfs
19:43 <n54> and tired and sleepy are two very different things let me assure you - I'm almost constantly tired
19:43  * wrtlprnft just skimmed over the wikipedia page, so don't consider me an expert
19:45 <n54> it's no problem it's a difficult diagnosis and very little is actually known about it except for a common set of symptoms and in the case of ME that it in all likelihood is a viral infection in the nerve system
19:46 <wrtlprnft> you said it will go away, right?
19:46 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@pool-68-238-155-80.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:47 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
19:47 <n54> no, it's cronic, it will never go away but some people manage to reduce it to such a degree it might as well not be there (experts disagree; my specialist says one thing and a neurologist says something different - I'm mroe inclined to believe my specialist since doctors in general have no clue what they're actually dealing with)
19:48 <wrtlprnft> go away or become way better... both good thinks
19:48 <wrtlprnft> i hope it will become better for you :)
19:49 <n54> me too
19:49 <n54> but those possiblities are just possibilities, doesn't apply to everyone etc. (but in my case I've made some progress the last two years)
19:49 <wrtlprnft> I wanna see your unbeatable arma skills :P
19:50 <n54> lol I'll probably suck :)
19:50 <n54> anyone can beat me, that's always been the case :)
19:51 <n54> it just became very rare for a while ^^
19:52 <wrtlprnft> looks like you were good at arma :P
19:53 <n54> overall yeah, but there were others that were better, I'm oretty sure of that, like WarMonkey and Commie and probably Subby too
19:53 <n54> pretty*
19:53 <n54> I just played a lot
19:54 <wrtlprnft> well, then all those most likely played too much arma :P
19:54 <n54> probably ^^
19:55 <n54> WarMonkey loved to do laps, I don't know if anyone does that anymore
19:56 <LuciEatsPeople> #g 1.296/3
19:56 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 1.29600 / 3 = 0.432
19:58 <n54> btw does the map-making stuff enable making a square circle?
19:59  * n54 might have asked before
20:03 <wrtlprnft> yes, almost
20:03 <wrtlprnft> you can make a regular polygon with many sides
20:03 <LuciEatsPeople> #g 1.3/3
20:03 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 1.3 / 3 = 0.433333333
20:04 <n54> I was thinking more of like an arena that is a square with a big square "hole" in the middle
20:05 <wrtlprnft> square with a square hole?
20:05 <n54> yup
20:05 <wrtlprnft> you mean, like a roundabout?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> sure, why not?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=211&max=217
20:05 <n54> cool
20:05 <wrtlprnft> there's a circle
20:05 <wrtlprnft> i have no better shots, sorry
20:06 <n54> ah yeah I've seen those at the forum
20:06 <wrtlprnft> did i link them? oh, ok
20:06 <wrtlprnft> but no, that would be easy
20:07 <n54> the thing about those curved arenas and trails; it can't be any good for grinding?
20:07 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
20:07 <wrtlprnft> no, it's not
20:08 <n54> ah ok
20:08 <wrtlprnft> but curved rim walls basically get rid of wallhugging :P
20:08 <wrtlprnft> if someone grinds it hard enough and then turns away, it is unbeatable
20:08 <wrtlprnft> like this: (i love ascii art)
20:09 <n54> yeah that's fair if one want's to avoid it, however lapping _is_ wallhugging :)
20:09 <wrtlprnft> /---------
20:09 <wrtlprnft> |
20:09 <wrtlprnft> |
20:09 <wrtlprnft> |
20:09 <wrtlprnft> |
20:09 <wrtlprnft> where the / is the rim wall
20:09 <wrtlprnft> no, but you don't get people doing 180 degree turns against walls
20:10 <n54> imagine wallhugging but with 2-4 participants all "hugging each other" as close to the wall and each other trails as possible; that's lapping
20:11 <wrtlprnft> o_O whatever you say :P
20:12 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with o_O --nolimit
20:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:11:26] <wrtlprnft> o_O whatever you say :P and [18:45:54] <wrtlprnft> o_O I'm getting canadianized
20:12 <n54> it's kind of fun, it's not really competetive but rather more cooperation trying to see how many laps one can do with how many
20:12 <wrtlprnft> #last --with sdfsfgsgfasfgasf
20:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 880 messages.
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <wrtlprnft> 880 messages?!
20:12 <wrtlprnft> how lame is that?
20:13 <wrtlprnft> grr it got disconnected earlier
20:13 <wrtlprnft> it was over 15000
20:13 <n54> :o
20:13 <wrtlprnft> 21:54 <armabot> Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 23953 messages
20:13 <wrtlprnft> that was yesterday
20:14 <n54> XD
20:26  * spidey yawns
20:27 <wrtlprnft> morning/evening/night/whatever
20:31 <spidey> hmmm
20:32 <wrtlprnft> whatever your "internal" time is
20:32 <n54> :)
20:33 <spidey> it's morning for me
20:33 <spidey> but it's also  8:30pm
20:33 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:33 <wrtlprnft> maybe your brain is getting am and pm mixed up?
20:33 <wrtlprnft> or it lives in australia or somewhere?
20:34 <spidey> lol
20:34 <spidey> dunno
20:34 <spidey> but i'm still tired
20:55 -!- bashusr [n=bashusr@unaffiliated/bashusr] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:56 -!- bashusr [n=bashusr@c-71-192-194-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
20:58 <wrtlprnft> looks like rScreen.cpp doesn't like tColor.cpp O_o
20:58 <wrtlprnft> *rColor.cpp
21:08 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B239.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:10 <wrtlprnft> grr
21:11 <wrtlprnft> there i have a rColor class to make my life easier and now i can't use it
21:12 <n54> :S
21:13 <wrtlprnft> or, now i can
21:13 <wrtlprnft> no idea why rScreen.h included rFont.h
21:13 <wrtlprnft> no apparent reason
21:14 <wrtlprnft> the trouble was that rScreen.h included rFont.h included rColor.h included rRender.h
21:14 <wrtlprnft> but rScreen.h doesn't work with rRender.h already included
21:14 <wrtlprnft> or, no, still won't work :(
21:15 <wrtlprnft> WHAT?
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #ifndef DONTDOIT
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #define glBegin        #error glBegin disabled
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #define glEnd          #error glEnd   disabled
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #define glMatrixMode   #error glEnd   disabled
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #endif
21:16 <wrtlprnft> such nonsense. why?
21:16  * wrtlprnft defines DONTDOIT
21:17 <wrtlprnft> grr. the stats script ignored fcukfcuk :(
21:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man can you enlighten me about DONTDOIT? why shouldn't i use glMatrixMode()?
21:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:20 <n54> dont do it ;P
21:20 <n54> :)
21:21  * wrtlprnft just did a #define DONTDOIT and wonders if he's gonna regret it
21:21 <n54> hehe :)
21:21 <n54> well you will find out ;)
21:24 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AD16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:24  * wrtlprnft wonders how much you have to smoke to call a define DONTDOIT
21:25 <wrtlprnft> and WHAT :D
21:25 <n54> hehe
21:27 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:28 <Luke-Jr> #later tell joda_bot Maybe extend our support for variables (${HOME} etc) to more than just paths? Eg, ${programname} or such
21:28 <Luke-Jr> LuciEatsPeople: fix the bot?
21:28 <wrtlprnft> #later tell joda_bot Maybe extend our support for variables (${HOME} etc) to more than just paths? Eg, ${programname} or such
21:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:28 <wrtlprnft> it just ignores you, it seems
21:29 <wrtlprnft> #m joda_bot (that last message was from Luke-Jr, armabot ignores him)
21:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:29  * Luke-Jr was going to tell z-man too
21:30 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man* (From Luke-Jr, armabot ignores him): Maybe extend our support for variables (${HOME} etc) to more than just paths? Eg, ${programname} or such
21:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:33 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I might fix the bot if you quit acting like a kid
21:34 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:34 <wrtlprnft> the only one that acts like a kid on that poor bot is me :P
21:34 <wrtlprnft> #f
21:34 <armabot> Random Fortune:  OS/2 must die!
21:37 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, wanna go another night of fortress?
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: not really, got calculus homework to do
21:42 <spidey> :(
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> I"ll probably be on there a bit, just not all night :)
21:42 <spidey> :)
21:43 <spidey> tuesday on i won't on on that much
21:43 <spidey> i'm going to my moms for a week
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> should I rip my neighbor's christian rock band's cd?
21:46 <spidey> i don't like it,so don't take my advice ;p
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> they're a wanna-be pop band
21:46  * Lucifer_arma wasn't impressed by it
21:46 <spidey> heh
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> so, is it "I am hicking-up", or "I am hic-upping"?
21:47 <spidey> lol
21:47 <GodTodd> depends on where in TX you are :D
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> my kids say the latter, but I say the former :)
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you start school yet?
21:51  * spidey is going to pwn fortress
21:52 <GodTodd> appears it is "hiccupping"
21:52 <GodTodd> not yet...starting in august
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> fall semester?
21:54 <GodTodd> yep
21:54 <GodTodd> gonna have to take trig and precal too :/
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> what are you taking?
21:54 <GodTodd> dunno yet
21:54 <GodTodd> have to see when the fall schedule is posted
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> you should be able to double up on trig and precal, but that's a lot of work :)
21:55 <GodTodd> i know....i might....MIGHT try it tho ;)
21:55 <GodTodd> depends on what else i take...probably start with 2 or 3 classes is all
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'd recommend it, if you have the time to keep up with it.  The two classes compliment each other.
21:56 <GodTodd> that would put me in calc I in spring...that's a big upside
21:56 <wrtlprnft> #night
21:56 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft 
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> that is a big upside.  :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> consider that your degree starts with calc I in the first semester, if you burn too many core classes getting to that point, math will bottleneck you later
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's why I skipped college algebra and precalculus, to avoid that bottleneck :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> I've only got 2 core classes left, one of which I"ll take at ACC (probably next spring, maybe next summer), the other I'm waiting to take at UT
21:58 <GodTodd> how'd you skip them?
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm......  by being sneaky :)
21:59 <GodTodd> hmmm
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> I took intermediate algebra, tested into it.
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> At the time, they said if you got a B or higher, you could skip college algebra and go to trig.  So I did that.
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> My trig teacher was pretty impressed with me, at least a little bit, and we worked out a deal where he wouldn't press me for prerequisites if I took Calc I from him
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> in exchange I had to do well in calc I, which I did.  Got an A, after all.  :)
22:00 <GodTodd> cool :)
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> an understood part of the deal was that if I fucked up in calc I, I'd take precalculus before attempting calc I again, but that didn't happen.
22:01 <GodTodd> i don't think i'll get that lucky....tho i did ace college algebra in an experimental 5 week course....helped teach half the class ;)
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> right now, calc 2 would be a bottleneck for me, if I had finished general chem and had taken general physics.  But since I dropped chem and didn't take physics yet, it's not.
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> algebra's easy.  :)
22:02 <GodTodd> yep
22:02 <GodTodd> tho i was the only A and half the class flunked so they scrapped it after that quarter
22:02 <GodTodd> heh
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> so in the fall I'll be taking general chem and general physics, and calc 3.  Should be interesting, 2 algebra classes and calc 3.
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> half the class flunked?  Why didn't they drop?
22:03  * Lucifer_arma notes that of 30 students or so, only 4 were left to take the calc 1 final
22:03 <GodTodd> they thought they could 'get it' and it's a very narrow drop window in a 5 week course
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> man.  that's just wishful thinking.  Your GPA doesn't constitute any wishful thinking.
22:03 <GodTodd> nope
22:03 -!- bashusr [n=bashusr@c-71-192-194-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:04 <GodTodd> tho the whole thing with my ex a few years ago shot my AAS GPA all to hell :/
22:04 <GodTodd> ended up with a 3.289
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> still, how bad can an F hurt you?  You have to retake the class anyway or you can't use it as a prerequisite for other classes, so you may as well stick around for a little bit.
22:05 <GodTodd> truly
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they treat F's special?
22:07 <GodTodd> not at MCC they didn't....just a gpa ding and a retake
22:07 <GodTodd> faced that myself once :/
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> I knew a guy last semester who was retaking classes he'd got C's in becuse he needed to raise his GPA to fatten it up for a real admission application
22:08 <GodTodd> yeah...i've seen that
--- Log opened Sun Jun 04 22:10:40 2006
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22:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not uncommon, my point was that an F can't hurt that badly compared to dropping the class since you have to retake it anyway,
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> and when you retake it, your new grade replaces your old one, they don't sit side by side
22:11 <n54> yup same here - got you now
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> there are other side effects, depending on your gpa, though.  You could wind up on academic probation, and if you don't fix it quickly you could get kicked out
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> if you previously had really good standing (like me :)  ), you lose that with an F, but not if you drop it.
22:12 <n54> also similar
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> right, so if you were already a borderline student, especially with only a few credit hours completed, an F probably does hurt a lot compared to a drop
22:12 <n54> at uni-level here it's usual to drop rather than get a really bad grade, it's ok as long as you do it well in advance and not too often
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> same here.  There's a ratio of completed vs attempted credit hours you have to keep above a certain level
22:13 <n54> or used to be at least - I didn't get enough experience with the new system to say it's still like that
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> if not, you have to retake classes you attempted.  There's a window, too, so you have to have that ratio above a certain level for the previous 3 years or something like that
22:14 <n54> ok here it's sort of simpler (or used to be) as you'ld eventually loose financial support (study.loans and grants etc.)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> I can't see somebody changing that part of the game.  Being able to make a tactical retreat, and doing so successfully is part of what we're in college to learn, right?  And show that we've learned...
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> you don't get kicked out if that ratio is too low, you lose financial support, but when your degree is awarded, they consider a certain period, and that ratio has to be above a certain level during that period
22:15 <n54> ok
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> if not, no degree, you have to retake classes as needed and change the period to be considered, which might well mean retaking early classes that now fall outside the window
22:16 <n54> that sounds a bit strange to me
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> I think they're trying to avoid handing out degrees to kids that go to school, take some classes in one degree, decide it's too hard for them, drop those classes, then start on a another degree, do the same thing, etc.
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> If you finish with the degree you set out to get, it's nearly impossible to drop too many classes, unless you're just having a hard time or not cut out for college
22:18 <n54> hmm ok but afew false starts, especially if they're straight from school, isn't that uncommon or strange imo
22:18 <n54> oh college
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> the attitude is that you're better off quitting for awhile and figuring out what you want before starting again
22:18 <n54> sorry was thinking uni :)
22:18 <n54> yup
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> mostly uni = college, eh?
22:18 <n54> that makes sense
22:19 <n54> err, you americans and your strange renaming of everything lol ;)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> it only matters when you say "I went to the College of Engineering".  Oh yeah?  What university?
22:19 <n54> in the rest of the world college 1= university :)
22:19 <n54> !=*
22:20 <n54> but anyways; ok :)
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure, but I think the earlier withdrawals disappear if you retake the class, but I could be wrong on it.  Also, seems like an F or a D should count as a withdrawal in that ratio
22:22 <n54> something is usually seriously wrong if you below C (or 3 many places) anyway
22:22 <n54> you're
22:22 <n54> but I guess in a few cases people can be nunaware of it until they get the result, perhaps that explains it
22:24  * n54 shouldn't speak as he became terrified of exams first time round at university after flowing through the initial one
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> F usually means "didn't show up most of the time and didn't learn anything"
22:24 <n54> f is for "fail" simply, isn't it?
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> D usually means the same thing.  I agree that you should get at least a C or something's wrong.  For me, it should be an A or something's wrong.  :)
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> I was passing chem when I dropped it, heh.
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but you have to consider what it takes to get an F
22:25 <n54> s/flowing through/acing
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> you have to basically not have heard any of the lecture.  Just hearing it, paying attention, and remembering it should get you to a D
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> with some of the simpler courses like history, many can get C's just by paying attention to the lecture.
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> B and A are supposed to mean "put out extra effort and deserves recognition for it".  C means "competent with the material"
22:27 <n54> I always just map a-f to 6-1 (IB) or 1-6 (old uni system here)
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, A is a 4.  :)  B is 3, C is 2, D is 1, and F is 0.
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> I guess y'all have an extra grade in there, otherwise it's +1 everything
22:28 <n54> perhaps where you are :)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know of any american schools that do it differently, but they may be there.  :)
22:28 <n54> you don't have e's?
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> no, no e's.
22:28 <n54> never gone to any american school, no idea
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> the issue is transferring.  If a school uses a different scale to compute GPA, how does it transfer?
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> So GPA needs to be the same scale.  Your universities probably have a conversion from our scale, and vice versa.
22:29 <n54> well actually I've been a teaching assistant for a special class at the american school in singapore... but that doesn't count :D
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> but a university that adopts a different scale is going to basically be shut off in the ass end of nowhere, no matter how good they are.
22:30 <n54> lol that's just plain wrong sorry :)
22:30 <n54> you're talking about all of europe there ;)
22:31 <n54> (at least)
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> umm.  If someone starts a school in europe that uses a different scale, how well will the rest of the universities take their transfers?
22:32 <n54> they make conversiion scales and it's usually specific to countries/school systems
22:32 <n54> but they absolutely don't just ignore them :)
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> ?  really?  So what kind of paperwork nightmare will students face when they try to transfer?
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> The system can accept them all they want, but if the barrier to transfer is too high, people won't do it.  Then the new university with the weird scale winds up in the ass end of nowhere.
22:33 <n54> well when I was "courted" in singapore it was pretty easy, the university accepting your application does that work as they decide upon the calculation of grades
22:33 <n54> it's not much work really
22:34 <n54> nope Lucifer it doesn't :)
22:34 <n54> it really isn't such a big problem
22:34  * Lucifer_arma isn't convinced.  There's a reason there are standards, after all...
22:34 <n54> ehh hehe look there are standards elsewhere than the us you know, some are quite a bit stricter too ;)
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's easier to transfer in-state because all universities in a given state have the same legislative requirements
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> so people try not to transfer out of state unless they have to.  Even so, the transfer usually results in loss of credit from classes that aren't accepted where you go.
22:35 <n54> you don't have a national/federal one? :O
22:35 <n54> yikes sounds as it was easier for me with IB than for you guys
22:35 <n54> not that I could afford it anyway
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> we're talking individual classes here.  Your GPA is still used to rate you against competitors
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and taht rating is used regardless of which classes are accepted for credit.
22:36 <n54> oh individual class comparison, hmm well I don't know anything about the us system concerning international applicants on that, only the UK and EU ones (which don't seem to be any problem)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> So if the university you started from has a different scale, and there is no independent third party to certify the conversion given, you just got passed up in favor of kids that can be measured by their GPA
22:38 <n54> but I do know it's next to impossible to get US degrees accepted officially over here in norway at least in a few fields (which is stupid)
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> ?  isn't it up to employers to decide?
22:38 <n54> no, not certain stuff, especially medical education
22:39 <n54> stuff that requires a valid license
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.  That's similar here.  It's the same issue, you hae to have a degree that's visible to the standardizing body
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> if the body doesn't have a view into the education system where you got your degree, again, it doesn't matter how good you are or the school you went to
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> it can't be verified
22:40 <n54> those are exceptions though, usually all this stuff isn't a trouble at all
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> well, there's a call to tighten restrictions here on medical certifications.  There's been a rash of doctors that got degrees in Saudi Arabia and some other places that have done some pretty gnarly things.
22:41 <n54> good that they restrict it then
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> and there are some who say that the damage wouldn't have been as bad if those doctors had been US-educated
22:42 <n54> hopefully true
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully.  But do't throw the baby out, some of those doctors come from countries they probably don't really want to live in for good reason, heh.  They came to america looking for a better life,
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> let's not bar them from doing that because of where they got their education.  Instead, help them to meet the requirements here.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> still, there's that Indian doctor who was wanted for murder in India because of his practices, and they totally passed over that and let him practice in Seattle.  Definitely some systemic problems, there
22:43 <n54> not so sure I agree there, if its found severely lacking then it shouldn't be accepted
22:44 <n54> yup
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> not saying accept the degree, accept the person and put him in school to pick up the differences to he can still practice here.
22:45 <n54> yeah but who'll pay for that? still to some extent that is done here but some times you would end up with people getting a complete reeducation
22:45 <n54> so it isn't done
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> dont' know.  :)  depends on the case, I suppose.  Too many factors there, but at least put him on an even playing field with other international students.
22:46 <n54> the only real solution is to aim for international standards
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> the problem with international standards, not that I disagree with you, is getting poorer countries to be able to meet them.
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> still, maybe a poorer country would be able to adjust their system so they can meet the lower parts of the standards so at least their graduates can transfer easily internationally.
22:47 <n54> yup, but that's their choice really, a minimum standard isn't really a cost issue
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> basically offer 2-year degrees in lieu of 4-year degrees where the 2-year degrees meet international standards.
22:48 <n54> it's about transparancy
22:48 <n54> and reliability
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not sure.  Transparency is a requirement, sure, but there's also minimum level of education.  If the school's still teaching bleeding patients, it doesn't matter how transparent they are :)
22:49 <n54> yup it does because then you know they're teaching that
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> (you might laugh, but my wife took my kids to a Japanese doctor who tried to bleed my daughter during her checkup.  She never went back to him)
22:49 <n54> depends what you mean by "bleed"
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> my point is the school's medical degree can't meet international standards if that's what they're teaching.
22:49 <GodTodd> bleed == leeches
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> it wasn't a blood test, he ws just going to cut her arm and have her bleed into the sink.
22:50 <GodTodd> well...that idea anyway
22:50 <n54> sounds like a quack (and japan isn't exactly lacking in good schools)
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> he was an old WWII surgeon, had been practicing for a very long time
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> japan's been through quite a few changes the last 70 years or so, his education predates many of those changes
22:51 <n54> talk about irrelevant example! ;)
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> he might still have been a quack, I wasn't there :)
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> well, japan's been rebuilt from the ground up and got the modernizing that went with it.  Anybody else get that?  Sudan, perhaps?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> congo?
22:52 <n54> lol those are non-states
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Nigeria.  :)  My Texas Government teacher was educated by the Peace corps, because Nigeria doesn't have a public education system.
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> Sudan has a government, don't they?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> Oh wait, they have like 3 governments and that's the problem.
22:53 <n54> well in name only really
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> and when they do have a government?  What will that government direct its schools to teach, assuming it builds schools?
22:54 <n54> they have fuckload of people claiming to muslim who arent in the slightest and who like to kill anyone around, especially if they're black or christian <-- their main problem
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> aha, that's where your international standards kicks in.  :)
22:54 <n54> I don't even know what point you're trying to get at :)
22:55 <n54> international standards are voluntary anyway
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> what would a government with a culture that still thinks female genital mutilation strengthens reproductive health teach in their medical school?
22:55 <n54> nothing that's even close to an international standard - what ar you trying to say+
22:55 <n54> ?*
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> right, they have to be voluntary, but if you want to attract foreign investment, you really need to meet quite a few of them, especially the ones that determine the quality of your workforce
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, then Sudan would have a choice.  Meet the international standards and have doctors that are considered skilled in the rest of the world, or don't.
22:56 <n54> only lad & co invests in sudan, I really don't see your point, take a less extreme example :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> Foreign investment gets tied with it.
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> put a skilled workforce in Sudan and a stable government and who else is interested in it?
22:57 <n54> that would take an invasion ;) or about fifty years at least
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> not really important to the discussion.  :)  I guess my point is that your international stndards give them something to aim for that they can use to measure their own progress
22:57 <n54> and the "government" there is already crying foul over a few thousand UN and AU troops
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> same is true for other countries.
22:57 <n54> yes it gives them a choice
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> Qadaffi's managed to turn Libya around a bit, and he wants to attract foreign investment into Africa.  How's he going to get that?
22:58 <n54> and it does work for the rest of the somewhat civililzed world
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> one way is by reforming Libyan schools.  He's worked hard on that.
22:58 <n54> yup Gadhaffi actually has done wuite a lot of good
22:58 <n54> quite*
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> it's the same issue anywhere.  Texas education standards have helped attract quite a few investors into the state.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> Other states with lower/nonexistant standards tend to lose investors, which means shitty economies (simple terms, here, obviously)
22:59 <n54> yes I would imagine it has, it is a simple fairly foolprooflogic to it
23:00 <n54> has*
23:00 <n54> another stellar example would he the asian tiger economies
23:00 <n54> be*
23:00  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know much about those
23:01 <n54> and some african nations are actually doing pretty well too, at least in some areas
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> those the economies based on prostitution?  ;)
23:01 <n54> eh?
23:01 <n54> you haven't heard of the asian tiger economies?
23:01 <n54> or was that about arican countries?
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> not in those terms.
23:01 <n54> african*
23:01  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know
23:01  * n54 wonders wtf luci is talking about now
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> all's I know is that a country that welcomes foreign investment and isn't stuck in a civil war is probably improving right now
23:02 <n54> angola
23:02 <n54> sar of course
23:02 <n54> nigeria actually, although they still have a long way to go
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, there's an issue here about whether or not a person is guilty of pedophilia/statutory rape if he's overseas and sleeps with a prostitue in a place where it's legal for her age
23:03 <n54> it's illegal
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> naturally what goes along with that is the idea that prostitution is so widespread in some of the southeast asian countries that their economies are based on it
23:03 <n54> heh bullshit
23:04  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know the specific facts of the issue, just that it's been brought up in the last 5 years or so
23:04 <n54> you might be thinking of one country and one country alone; thailand
23:04 <n54> still it's not based on it
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's somewhat obviously a joke, except there are people around here who really do think that most southeast asian countries' economies are based on american tourism
23:06 <n54> outside south east asia I would think the phillipines has problems with prostitution too but to say that either country has an economy based on it is.... *no word*
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> note that these are the same people who complain about all electronics coming from asia
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> Asia isn't a place to them, it's just one of those magical places that produces DVD players, computers, and people for them to hate
23:06 <n54> yeah nad the morons in europe think the us lives off war, what can I say, stupid people everywhere :)
23:06 <n54> and*
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> of course, these are the same people that arranged huge supply drops for the tsunami victims a couple of years ago
23:08 <n54> not liek they were the only ones ;) but yeah
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> then they couldn't find anybody to take them, right away.  Eventually they managed to get the stuff sent over, though.
23:08 <n54> stupid != not nice
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> no, of course not.  Plenty of people willing to help.  :)
23:09 <n54> :)
23:09 <n54> actually the US navy did a tremendous job from the get-go
23:09 <n54> in indonesia
23:10  * n54 doesn't recall the name of the aircraft carrier
23:13 <n54> which is very nice considering that north-western area of indonesia is the one with most islamist tendencies (or at least used to be)
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.3 * 44100
23:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 0.3 * 44,100 = 13,230
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> #g 13230/512
23:17 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 13,230 / 512 = 25.8398438
23:17 <spidey> stop using the bot as a calculator :p
23:17 <n54> it's very handy
23:18 <n54> and much faster than loading an entire page or opening a calculator prog
23:18 <spidey> #g 123+321*456/654
23:18 <armabot> spidey: 123 + ((321 * 456) / 654) = 346.816514
23:18 <n54> see? :) *loves that feature*
23:18 <spidey> lol
23:19 <n54> I say go for it :)
23:21 <spidey> #g 987*654+321-123+456*789
23:21 <armabot> spidey: (987 * 654) + 321 - 123 + (456 * 789) = 1,005,480
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> yes, the bot is a much handier calculator, but I do frequently use a python interpreter too.
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> what I just computed is that in the trunk, you can set sound_buffer_size as high as 25 and only get 300 milliseconds of latency in sound.
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> so if your computer is really slow, you should have playable sound at that upper limit.
23:24 <n54> cool, yeah if python is already "invoked" that's fast too
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> depends on what's closer to me, my terminal window or my irc window :)
23:24 <n54> :)
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> remind me to work out some way to time a build.  I'd like to compare the time to build using "make", and using "make -j4" with distcc
23:31  * spidey is watching the alien interview
23:32 <n54> wrap it in a timer? not sure exactly how/which timer
23:32 <n54> cron might be enough?
23:32  * n54 takes a look
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> just a simple bash script that gets the time before certain steps and calls them should suffice.
23:33 <Lucifer_arma> and afterwards, of course, and then computes the time taken
23:33 <n54> ok
23:35 <n54> at -m might be all to it
23:36 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
23:38 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I just found time, finding at still (it's farther down the page)
23:38 <n54> ok I just snooped through a few obsd man pages on a whim
23:38 <Lucifer_arma> no, at is for scheduling
23:39 <n54> *looks up time*
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/timedate.html
23:39 <n54> yes it is but it will give you a strat (specified by you and -m mails you afterwards which will include a timestamp)
23:40 <n54> sorry I'll stick to the obsd stuff since I'm trying to get familiar with it :)
23:40 <n54> ah yeah time should be it
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> I've got a bunch of ogg encoding jobs running right now, not a very good measurement available until that's done
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> then I'm gonna go tear up fortress a bit
23:42 <n54> according to the version I'mr eading about it reports system overhead which should include "everything else" imo
23:43 <n54> or at least it's specific as to how much time whatever it is timing took, not everything else
23:45 <n54> hmm any idea what rusage might refer to? resource usage?
23:46 <n54> sorry nevermind, found out and it is :)
23:52 <n54> meh I annoy the hell out of myself right now, hope I haven't annoyed you guys too and if so I apologize - cya all :)
23:52 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []

Log from 2006-06-05:
--- Day changed Mon Jun 05 2006
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> kaudiocreator should collapse to the system tray
00:13 <Luke-Jr> http://www.green-globe.com/
00:13 <Luke-Jr> Imma buy 4x3 blocks for $480 and build a home there >:)
00:13 <Luke-Jr> maybe a bit bigger
00:14 <Luke-Jr> sure, the website says it's not allowed... but if I'm the legal owner, screw them =p
00:33 <spidey> it never fails
00:33 <spidey> i get the totally shitty team in fortress :(
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> let that be a lesson, don't delete the old directory until the CD is done ripping
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> it got stuck 87% in the song Youthenasia, which is like the best song on the album
00:52 <spidey> lol
01:07 <spidey> #g 25455+70964+28764
01:07 <armabot> spidey: 25,455 + 70,964 + 28,764 = 125,183
01:07 <spidey> #g 125183/2
01:07 <armabot> spidey: 125,183 / 2 = 62,591.5
01:09 <spidey> 69234+76212+59904
01:09 <spidey> gr
01:10 <spidey> #g 69234+76212+59904
01:10 <armabot> spidey: 69,234 + 76,212 + 59,904 = 205,350
01:10 <spidey> #g 205250/2
01:10 <armabot> spidey: 205,250 / 2 = 102,625
01:14 <spidey> #g 106964+41870+25282
01:14 <armabot> spidey: 106,964 + 41,870 + 25,282 = 174,116
01:15 <spidey> 174116/2
01:15 <spidey> #g 174116/2
01:15 <armabot> spidey: 174,116 / 2 = 87,058
01:33 <spidey> you break it luci?
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> looks like wrtlprnft might have changed something that broke the old map, but my map looks just like his in the cockpit file
01:35 <spidey> heh
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> this sucks
01:36 <spidey> radar for tron is nice,would stop me from glancing and dying
01:36 <spidey> lol
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft the map is broke.  Won't show at all from my cockpit file.  Weird thing is, the default map works fine.
01:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't stop you from glancing and dying.  :)
01:36 <spidey> lmao
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, that's mostly because it's a map of the whole grid.  I'd like to change it to behave more like a radar (configurable, of course)
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm going in without a map, and will likely be somewhat crippled.  I've grown to depend on it a lot.
01:37 <spidey> hehehe
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> found the change
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft looks like the line antialiasing thing you committed is what broke it.  The map is there, it's just very dim.
01:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
01:52 <[Xpert]DarkStar> morning
01:55 <spidey> hi
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02:42 <luke-jr_> How good a dual is a Xeon 550 MHz w/ 100 GB RAID and 1 GB DDR RAM for $250?
02:43  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know
02:54 <luke-jr_> How good a deal is*
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03:18  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know how good a deal is *
03:26 <spidey> hahaha
03:26 <spidey> i just pissed one of my soldat admins off
03:26 <spidey> :)
03:27 <spidey> they  like to admin kill the bots,so i made a script that kills them when they use it
03:27 <spidey> i might change it to a kick
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03:49 <joda_bot> #message guru3* update topic to has been released!
03:49 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
03:49 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
03:49 -!- guru3 changed the topic of #armagetron to: has been released! | http://armagetronad.net/ | Watch out for ~walls from the future~ !!!
03:49 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o guru3] by guru3
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04:38 <Luke-Jr> hrm
04:38 <Luke-Jr> AA froze my system twice in a row :/
04:39 <Luke-Jr> it'd be kinda cool to find a use for Myst music ;)
04:49 <joda_bot> hi Luke-Jr
04:49 <joda_bot> So you suggest customizing armagetronad by environment variables ?
04:50 <joda_bot> If I understood wrtlprnft forwarded message
04:54 <Luke-Jr> no
04:54 <Luke-Jr> well, sortof
04:54 <Luke-Jr> could be implemented using env vars or just acting similar
04:55 <Luke-Jr> the game would set its hardcoded name when it starts of course
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05:00 <Luke-Jr> hm, think I located my sound problem
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> what is it?
05:03 <Luke-Jr> well, it seems OSS emulation was near-muted
05:03 <Luke-Jr> however, now that it's fixed, I still get absolutely nothing from AA
05:06 <Luke-Jr> I suspect if I got back to the crackling stage, it'd work
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> fool with sound_buffer_size
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> I think you have to restart between changes
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> x * 512 = 64 gets you back to where it was
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64/512
05:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 / 512 = 0.125
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> set sound_buffer_size to 0.125 :)
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you hve to restart between changes, that value is only used once
05:09 <Luke-Jr> where am I supposed to fool with it?
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> console?
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> it should be saved to user.cfg
05:09 <Luke-Jr> o
05:10 <Luke-Jr> 25 did nothing
05:11 <Luke-Jr> same w/ 0.125
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> you restarted between changes
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> ?
05:14  * Lucifer_arma is downloading neverball source right now to see what they do different
05:15 <Luke-Jr> yes
05:16 <Luke-Jr> once upon a time, it did work for me =p
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> neverball is just 1 channel sound?!?
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, try this:
05:19 <Luke-Jr> dunno
05:19 <Luke-Jr> my leads were correct
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> line 275 in eSoundMixer.cpp is this:
05:19 <Luke-Jr> SDL_AUDIODRIVER="alsa" works
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> rc = Mix_OpenAudio( frequency, AUDIO_S16LSB,
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> change it to:
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> rc = Mix_OpenAudio( frequency, MIX_DEFAULT_FORMAT,
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> if that works, commit.  :)
05:20 <Luke-Jr> engine/eSoundMixer.cpp:273: warning: converting to `int' from `float'
05:20 <Luke-Jr> FYI
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> fine, afaik
05:21 <Luke-Jr> it didn't work
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> it multiplies a float times a constant and assigns to an int
05:21  * Luke-Jr suggests explicit casting ;p
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> well I'm stumped for now.  I wonder if it has something to do with being athlon64 instead, but the change you just made should have brought it in line with whatever sdl_mixer was compiled with
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> and makes it almost identical to what neverball does
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> how many output channels does your soundcard have?
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05:23 <Luke-Jr> 6?
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> SOUNDCHANNELS 6 ?
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> er
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> SOUND_CHANNELS 6
05:24 <Luke-Jr> no idea?
05:24 <Luke-Jr> o
05:24 <Luke-Jr> yes, I think I have that
05:24 <Luke-Jr> yes
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer doesn't actually know, you just pump in a number and hope it works
05:25 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: When will we have the cycle's engine noise back ?
05:25  * Lucifer_arma grumbles about sdl_sound not being able to figure it out
05:25 <joda_bot> or does it work for you ?
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: gonna be a little while.  I'm restructuring the thing on account of I had an epiphany about how badly I was designing it
05:26 <joda_bot> ok ;)
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> in the future there will be a sSmallMixer class that game objects will carry around with them
05:27 <joda_bot> It's really amazing how much I got used to this humming noise ... I really get surprised by some attacks without the sound indicating someone approaching
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> I figure I'm going to factor all existing sound code, even the old stuff, into 3 modules.  base, sdl, and sdl_mixer, and that should bring the engine back
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, I never played with sound before there was music.  :)  So I don't miss the cycle noise...
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> then I'll work on my special loaders, libmad, libvorbis directly, maybe even libflac, libsndfile.  After that, I can start in on the openAl stuff, but by then we should have everything we had before + music already
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, a good sound system is dependency hell, and some people don't care about sound.  So I'd like them not to suffer dependency hell if they don't have to, but those of us that want a really good system can pay the price.
05:30 <joda_bot> Might be a good idea to first get the more powerful parts designed or coded
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> (and I've already got all those dependencies installed anyway)
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> more powerful parts?
05:30 <joda_bot> Once you have a working openal implementation running, the other sound backend with less capabilites should be easy
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, yeah, except that to get there there's a whole ton of work, in the meantime you're stuck with what you've got now
05:31 <joda_bot> :-)
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> some of it depends on how much work doing a given thing with sdl_mixer might be.  That's why I'm wanting to resurrect the old code and factor it into its own space,
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> so I can work there instead.  See, for openAL, I need loaders for all the audio file formats, openAL doesn't provide them.
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> that means I have to write them.  :)
05:32 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: or we can just detect what we support at build time...
05:32 <Luke-Jr> eg, only support FLAC if we have libflac
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> then I have to test with an unfamiliar api.  Instead I'd like to test with a known working system, i.e. SDL
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yeah, that's roughly my plan.  First check if the user wants sound compiled at all, then see what libraries are there, then build as much as possible
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> output gentle warnings indicating that "to get better sound, you should install <this>"
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> of course, our binaries should be built with everything as much as possible.  If we can do so without having the program fail to load if dependencies aren't satisfied.
05:34 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: of course, if they use --with-flac, make that an error ;)
05:34 <Luke-Jr> oh, that's always possible
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> right, exactly.  :)
05:34 <Luke-Jr> just ugly
05:34 <Luke-Jr> you'd need to use dlopen and such
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  I suspected as much.  Maybe we'll statically link openAL.  I think libmad and libvorbis are reasonable to expect a user to already have.  :)
05:35 <Luke-Jr> and have your own internal headers
05:35 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: phew, while reading I thought you really want to code the file format loaders yourself ;)
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, yeah?  You mean decode the compressed music myself?
05:36 <Luke-Jr> C is ugly for dynamic linking
05:36 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: ?
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05:36 <joda_bot> Shouldn't the libraries take care of the decoding ?
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> I have to code the loaders myself--using libvorbis, libmad, et al.
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer uses smpeg, which sucks ass, really.
05:36 <joda_bot> yeah, sure it's adapters to the libraries right ?
05:37 <joda_bot> ok .. no clue ;)
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  You can call it whatever you want, joda, but it's "load this stuff from disc and put it in memory"
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's a loader to me
05:37 <joda_bot> :-) 
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #   define API(return, fname, ...) typedef return(*fname)(__VA_ARGS__);
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #else
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #   define API(return, fname, ...)  extern return  fname (__VA_ARGS__);
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #endif
05:37 <joda_bot> It's just not you doing the decoding part ;)
05:37 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: mmap is better, IMO
05:37 <joda_bot> or your code
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, shit no, why would I do that?  That's what libraries are for!
05:38 <Luke-Jr> hehe
05:38 <joda_bot> right, and that was what I thought while reading the first few lines :-)
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> we might need to bundle libsamplerate too.  I want to use that to resample, it's probably waaaay better than whatever sdl uses (unless sdl uses it already)
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> but I don't know that I've ever seen it as a package for a distribution.  Could be wrong...
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> so what else do we need for 0.3?
05:51 <Luke-Jr> we don't *need* anything, other than testing
05:51 <Luke-Jr> well, not even testing... just not broken
05:52 <Luke-Jr> 0.3 has no feature requirements, tho
05:52 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why change the sample rate unless we do actual mixing?
05:52 <Lucifer_arma> so what's broken?  i.e. how soon can we release it?
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: well, we will do actual mixing at some point, I'm sure.  The point of changing the sample rate is to improve performance by using a lower sample rate
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> that means if we're loading the samples ourselves, we need to change them from what they were to what we want.
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> music is a different story, there's no point to resampling on the fly for the sake of performance
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you don't load music into memory and resample it there in a cache
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> so the point of resampling music on the fly is only to allow it to mix with sound effects that were resampled at load time
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's a tradeoff, really.  I intend to store our sound effects as 22.05khz ogg vorbis files, which makes them really really small and lets us cram more in a distribution
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> we'll need to be able to resample those to 44.1khz to match music
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer seems to have no problem resampling vorbis files, but it won't resample mp3
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> so maybe I can give it a libmad loader that resamples for us
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> libsamplerate is really really fast, and high quality to boot
05:56 <Luke-Jr> MIDI makes them really really small and flawless music quality ;)
05:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: if you need help with resampling, a friend of mine reimplements various codecs and sample stuff in his free time
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> flawless mediocre music quality
05:57 <joda_bot> he's really good at that...
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> midi also requires the user (in linux) to download a 64MB sample set
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: I'll keep that in mind, but libsamplerate is already written, well-tested, GPL, etc.
05:57 <Luke-Jr> or use hardware acceleration
05:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: for 0.3 I might add customizable teamname support
05:58 <Luke-Jr> tho for all I know hardware MIDI sucks
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> you see Luke-Jr, there is no hardware midi in linux.  SDL_mixer uses timidity to render it
05:58 <joda_bot> z-man: Should the network protocol version be upgraded for that ?
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's cpu intensive, more so than mod or vorbis
05:58 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: pretty sure OSS supports MIDI
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> pretty sure it doesn't
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> even alsa doesn't
05:58 <Luke-Jr> I don't doubt ALSA lacks it
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, some cards, but very very few
05:58 <joda_bot> z-man: because syncing a player also sends the player's prefered teamname then
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> oss doesn't either
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> that's why timidity was written in the first place
05:59 <joda_bot> hm, seems not be here ;)
05:59 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: note appended data doesn't usually break old stuff
05:59 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: it does not except someone else extends the protocol wihtout increasing the version ;)
05:59 <joda_bot> or whatever
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> oss = crap.  alsa = ruling sound system.  neither have midi
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> timidity sounds real nice, but it's cpu intensive.  I don't think anybody's going to be willing to give up framerate for midi music, but they might be willing to do so for good vorbis or mp3 music
06:00 <joda_bot> I could even keep the player syncs as they are 
06:00 <joda_bot> and just send a "/teamname name" chat command ;)
06:00 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: the MIDI howto says you lie
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> ?
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> link?
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> link?
06:01 <Luke-Jr> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/MIDI-HOWTO.html#s6
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it only says I lie when you take what I'm saying out of context
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you can hook up a midi instrument to your sound card and expect support for it
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's fundamentally different than pumping a midi file into the soundcard and expecting it to play it for you
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06:04 <Lucifer_arma> you can do that with alsa (not oss afaik), but to hear the music you have to plugin a midi instrument
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> which is *not* what we're talking about doing
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> we're talking about using a soundcard's onboard synth to play the midi file, which is not supported, and nowhere do I see in this howto how to set it up
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> last I checked, only a very few cards were supported, and to get those to work you first had to find a firmware to stick on them
06:06 <Luke-Jr> amidi -l
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, sdl doesn't support that stuff.  It uses timidity, and afaik, openAL doesn't bother with it
06:06 <Luke-Jr> ok
06:06 <Luke-Jr> so why does KMid play via /dev/sequencer?
06:06 <Luke-Jr> /dev/sequencer is OSS
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> timidity has a daemon mode where it accepts midi events through /dev/sequencer
06:07 <Luke-Jr> so?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'd assume that's why.  oss had a /dev/sequencer device, but it only worked for the paid drivers, I think
06:07 <Luke-Jr> and ALSA emulation =p
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, but all that does is send midi events to the network
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> you have to have a synth to play it
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> timidity will receive events and play it, it's a synth
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> there are others, timidity isn't really preferred by the hardcore music people
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> because it doesn't support soundfonts
06:08 <Luke-Jr> o
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot the name of the one people prefer, I use timidity :)
06:09 <Luke-Jr> well, anyway
06:09 <Luke-Jr> does any OS lack MIDI support by default? =p
06:09 <Luke-Jr> other than Gentoo
06:09 <Luke-Jr> 64 MB isn't much if you already have it
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, for our purposes, using midi files is supported by all os's.  ON windows, hardware synth is used if it's there.
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> we can rely on the patch set being there for most people, but we have to get back to performance
06:10 <Luke-Jr> MIDI is worse for performance than Vorbis?
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> which is that timidity takes a lot of cpu cycles compared to vorbis or libmad
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> timidity is
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> which is what sdl_mixer uses
06:10 <Luke-Jr> hrm
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> we're better off using mod files in that case
06:11 <Luke-Jr> oh well
06:11 <Luke-Jr> maybe someday
06:11 <Luke-Jr> I'm not familiar with mod
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> mod is very nice.  :)  Except that I don't like working with either mod or midi
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> mod is midi without the crappy sounds, it includes its instruments in the file
06:11 <Luke-Jr> my experience with mod = MegaZeux used it for music
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's very common for games precisely because it was invented for games
06:12 <Luke-Jr> does it support dependencies/includes?
06:12 <Luke-Jr> eg, myinstruments.mod used by music.mod
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not that I know of
06:12 <Luke-Jr> I'd think so if it was designed for games...
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> there are XM instrument files
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> but when you use them in a mod file, the instruments get embedded
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> the file is optimized for loading into memory and then seeking/skipping around
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> it was designed on a 7mhz processor with 4 8-bit sound channels
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> max sampling rate of 22.05khz (when designed)
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's not that big of a deal when you see what the instruments are, and every mod format has a compression algorithm of some sort for the instruments
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> cheesy, but we're talking about 1-2k samples
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> (ok, samples are actually a bit bigger than that)
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer supports them.  If you can get a converter for your midi file, we're better off going with mod for the midis you want :)
06:21 <joda_bot> uhm, mod's are fine to play some amiga style music, but adding a simple midi support does not hurt (IMHO) even if it's slow without tainted kernel support or due to software emulation
06:21 <joda_bot> sdl does not support midi ?
06:22 <Luke-Jr> OMG
06:22 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux was ported to Linux
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer supports several mod formats, midi, vorbis, and mp3
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> and I think you need to update your information on mod files, there are some beautiful mods available :)
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/
06:24 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I've used and made some mods, I know their capabilites ;)
06:25 <joda_bot> axel_f is old classic ;)
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> apparently not.  :)  You can make mods that are indistinguishable in quality from a recorded piece of music
06:25  * joda_bot might scare Lucifer_arma by sending him an old composition ;)
06:25 <joda_bot> Not with the classic mod formats ;)
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> old isn't good enough, how about something using recent mod tools?
06:26 <joda_bot> might be they've extented it
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> we're not talking classic mod formats, we're talking what's in current use
06:26 <joda_bot> oh alright
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> they've been extended to support cd quality sound.
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> which is all we're talking about anyway
06:26 <joda_bot> ah, I thought we're talking about the old format and never knew they've changed the standard
06:27 <joda_bot> I knew there are other formats around xm... anothers but mod always was the same to me
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> never was a standard.  :)  There's just 4-5 different formats out there, and we're limited only by what mikmod supports
06:27 <joda_bot> 64 patterns of 256 notes or something along the lines, can't remember
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> the classic mod format hasn't changed, it's still sucky.  But that's not what's generally meant anymore when you say "mod".  You're including xm and it and some others
06:28 <joda_bot> ah alright :-)
06:28  * Lucifer_arma never used a mod program that limited you to 64 notes in a pattern
06:28 <joda_bot> not 64 notes
06:28 <joda_bot> ah it's called tacts
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> 64 was always the default, but you could always change it.  Of course, I used MED back in the day on the amiga, which was more powerful than soundtracker on the pc
06:28 <joda_bot> one pattern is limited to certain amount of tacts
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> but you can change it
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> and each pattern can be different
06:29 <joda_bot> with my classic modedit dos tool that was not possible
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> also, by changed the tempo of a pattern, you can get the timing you want anyway.  The only catch was getting triplets
06:29 <joda_bot> sure and repeated and arragend
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> the only problem was the way different tones were constructed, but you can use different samples in an instrument now, in xm at least
06:30 <joda_bot> I wrote a pascal tool, that reads the mod file and outputs a note sheet in ascii
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> and soundtracker on linux works very well
06:30 <joda_bot> note sheet = displaying the pattern and notes
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> I want a good midi->mod converter for linux
06:30 <joda_bot> no idea
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> I can compose music with rosegarden just fine, the staff-based editor is useful to me.  But the standard tracker editor is not useful to me.  :(
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> be even better if I had a midi pickup on my guitar.  :)  Then I could just play the music.
06:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/T/talkshow.s3m  <--- interesting
06:36 <Lucifer_arma> amarok plays mods on my machine
06:36 <Luke-Jr> um
06:36 <Luke-Jr> anyhow
06:37 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux is cool
06:37 <Luke-Jr> :)
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06:39 <joda_bot> hi Nixda777 ;)
06:39 <Nixda777> guten morgen ;) hi folks....
06:39 <Nixda777> ... if anyone else is out there...
06:39 <joda_bot> ?!
06:39 <joda_bot> ;)
06:39 <joda_bot> I already said hi ;)
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06:40 <joda_bot> O.o
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06:41 <joda_bot> test
06:41 <joda_bot> hm, works for me
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06:42 <joda_bot> that interface needs a javascript test ;)
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06:43 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux for Linux
06:43 <Luke-Jr> ... such great news
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06:49 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that one was pretty cool
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/D/dansze.xm  <--- this one's good
06:52 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux!
06:53 <Lucifer_arma> wake me when there's Ebonstar
06:53 <joda_bot> http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/23/fun-with-physics-oblivions-domino-effect/
06:54 <joda_bot> just say / post something random
06:57 <Lucifer_arma> after you listen to that second mod file I linked :)
06:58 <joda_bot> foobar plays it fine, but it does not show any samples for it
06:58 <joda_bot> is it still a mod ?
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's a mod.  xm
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> amarok reports the size at really really big
07:01 <joda_bot> hm, perhaps xm uses generated samples
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> no, xm uses regular samples like everybody else
07:04 <joda_bot> strange thought foobar would display those then
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> many players have problems with mod files for some reason, where they won't display the contents right but have no problem playing them
07:04 <joda_bot> it does so for mod
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> mod != xm
07:04 <joda_bot> I know I know
07:04 <joda_bot> but the concept is similiar ?
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> they're the same thing, just different formats.  So it's like your media player showing id3 tags just fine, but can't show id2 tags.  In either case, it plays the song just fine...
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> I know, people use instrument names to store song credits.
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> amarok didn't even let me see that, though.  Heh.  Just gave the wrong file size and played the song
07:07 <joda_bot> :-)
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> that song struck me as a good fortress goalie song.  :)  I emailed the author to ask if we can have it and some of his other songs.
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> I expect he'll say no, most musicians I've talked to object to music being distributed under GPL-like terms :(
07:09 <joda_bot> I guess we just have to ask for it, and some people will love to make some music
07:09 <Lucifer_arma> the only person in the community who's stepped up to the plate was raoul duke, and he left.
07:10 <Lucifer_arma> I posted in the mod archive forums.
07:10 <Lucifer_arma> We're basically either waiting for someone to appear and give us music, or me to find time to make it.
07:10  * Lucifer_arma doesn't think people are going to be happy if his music is all that ships with the game
07:12 <joda_bot> It'll only work with a bit of advertisement
07:12 <joda_bot> and most people will probably want to test their tracks somehow
07:13 <joda_bot> so either you explain the requirements , e.g. loopable songs playable for special events
07:13 <joda_bot> like X-wing used event based music
07:13 <joda_bot> If a enemy fleet entered the game it played the dark empire tracks ;)
07:14 <joda_bot> or just request free songs
07:14 <joda_bot> I might ask for some music on tron-sector.com forums
07:14 <joda_bot> it's a pretty tron addicted community
07:14 <joda_bot> and they are focused on the original game or tron 2.0
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> sure, just make sure that people understand that we get the last say on what we use and they shouldn't be disappointed if we don't pick their music
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> right now and for the foreseeable future it's just playlist stuff.  We also need a title theme to play when the app starts.
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's just playlist stuff.  The music ideally would be loopable as well, and we may ultimately throw out music that doesn't loop, but right now it has to fit into a playlist
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't have to match what's around it terribly, we can work out a system to match music together.
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> you know, so you're not listening to somewhat contradictory styles of music.  This isn't a problem for me, but might be for some.
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> if you're hearing speed metal, you can reasonably expect the next song not to be dixieland jazz, for example.  :)
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/4)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 4)^2) = 0.998047511
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/2)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 2)^2) = 0.968912422
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (3/4)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((3 / 4)^2) = 0.845924499
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( 1 )
07:28 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos(1) = 0.540302306
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*0.998 + 2*0.9689 + 2*0.8459 + 0.5403
07:28 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 0.998) + (2 * 0.9689) + (2 * 0.8459) + 0.5403 = 7.1659
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 2*0.998 + 2*0.9689 + 2*0.8459 + 0.5403) * 8
07:29 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (2 * 0.998) + (2 * 0.9689) + (2 * 0.8459) + 0.5403) * 8 = 57.3272
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 8)^2) = 0.999877932
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (3/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((3 / 8)^2) = 0.990128588
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (5/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((5 / 8)^2) = 0.924671261
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (7/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((7 / 8)^2) = 0.720949381
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.9999*1/4 + 0.9901*1/4 + 0.9247*1/4 + 0.7209*1/4
07:31 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ((0.9999 * 1) / 4) + ((0.9901 * 1) / 4) + ((0.9247 * 1) / 4) + ((0.7209 * 1) / 4) = 0.9089
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1/4)/2
07:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 / 4) / 2 = 0.125
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g 7.1659/8
07:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 7.1659 / 8 = 0.8957375
07:36  * Lucifer_arma spams the irc channel with more math
07:42 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: on windows the app blocks and plays the intro music and then displays the splash ...
07:43 <joda_bot> not sure why the splash gets delays for so long
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> blocks?  YOu should be able to hit a key to close the splash early...
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> it might be delayed loading something
07:45 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: fixed the map
07:45 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: it's delaying for about 2 seconds atleast
07:46 <joda_bot> music is playing
07:46 <wrtlprnft> it wasn't the antialiasing that broke it, it was some opengl lines i commented out since they looked unncessary, the map worked without them in the default and my cockpit file
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: that's gotta be some initialization or something.  Maybe drop some comments in there to see what's taking so long?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: ah, ok.  I reverted my local file so I could play.  :)
07:49  * Lucifer_arma wonders what's so different about his cockpit file that the map broke
07:52 <Lucifer_arma> sometimes calculus is really annoying
07:53 <wrtlprnft> maybe it depends on what the last rendered widget was
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07:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134/8 + 0.1927708/8 + 0.80139415/8 + 1.8528054/8 + 3.0628007/8 + 3.8767477/8 + 3.6198073/8 + 1.6923026/8
07:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.00752134 / 8) + (0.1927708 / 8) + (0.80139415 / 8) + (1.8528054 / 8) + (3.0628007 / 8) + (3.8767477 / 8) + (3.6198073 / 8) + (1.6923026 / 8) = 1.88826875
07:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: mind updating and checing if it really disappeared for you?
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> fixed, thanks :)
07:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
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07:58 <Lucifer_arma> have you updated the NEWS file yet?
07:58  * Lucifer_arma thinks he put all his news in there, but may have missed something
08:00 <wrtlprnft> not yet
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, simpson's rule doesn't look as a annoying as I thought it would look.
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08:13 <Lucifer_arma> these pencils suck.  Every lead in them was broken on purchase.  Luckily I have extras, but still!
08:20 <wrtlprnft> complain and demand new ones!
08:20 <wrtlprnft> ok, what do i put in news now
08:20 <wrtlprnft> tab completion, cockpit, font, anything else?
08:21 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux
08:21 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:21 <Luke-Jr> for Linux
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> #g 4*0.0590146 + 2*0.43617901 + 4*1.2822645 + 2*2.4674011 + 4*3.5618459 + 2*3.9256111 + 4*2.8917152
08:21 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (4 * 0.0590146) + (2 * 0.43617901) + (4 * 1.2822645) + (2 * 2.4674011) + (4 * 3.5618459) + (2 * 3.9256111) + (4 * 2.8917152) = 44.8377432
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> that reminds me, while you're in there, can you add "/console chat command" ?
08:21 <wrtlprnft> ok
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> std::string change
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> do we use utf8 internally now, or still working on it?
08:22 <wrtlprnft> stuill working
08:23 <wrtlprnft> that is, i have no idea on how to convert from utf-8 to utf-16
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: guru3 Luke-Jr z-man update NEWS file :)
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> do we need to do that conversion?
08:23 <Luke-Jr> no
08:23 <Luke-Jr> UTF-16 is useless
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> #g (pi/24)*44.8377432
08:24 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (pi / 24) * 44.8377432 = 5.86924686
08:24 <wrtlprnft> we do need it
08:24 <wrtlprnft> FTGL only seems to take utf-16
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> does utf-16 collapse to utf8?
08:25 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:25 <z-man> heh, right, forgot about std::string ;)
08:25  * Lucifer_arma wonders if you can just pad the extra bytes with 0s
08:25  * z-man thought he hadn't touched the trunk at all
08:26 <Luke-Jr> UTF-16 is 16-bit chars
08:26 <wrtlprnft> I don't think so
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> so z-man, using the midpoint rule to estimate the definite integral I get 1.88somestuff, and using Simpson's rule, I get 5.89someotherstuff
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> do I need to worry?  :)
08:26 <Luke-Jr> what if we want to use characters beyond the 16-bit boundary?
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> the function is x^2 sin(x)
08:26 <wrtlprnft> no clue...
08:27 <z-man> What is simpson's rule again?
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> and the interval is 0->pi
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> using parabolas to estimate the value of a definite integral
08:27 <z-man> Hmm, that integral looks like it's exactly solvable
08:28 <z-man> are you using the rules for the whole interval?
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> it is, I'm supposed to compare the two estimates to the exact value.  working on the exact value right now
08:29 <z-man> In that case, since sin(x) has a good maximum at pi/2, it would be expected that the midpoint rule (was that "evaluate the integrand at the middle of the interval" would give you more.
08:29 <Luke-Jr> z-man: someone ported MegaZeux to Linux :)
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> midpoint rule is making a bunch of rectangles under the graph, using the midpoint of the interval determined by the number of rectangles
08:29 <z-man> what is MegaZeux?
08:30 <Luke-Jr> a GCS
08:30 <z-man> And that is?
08:31 <Luke-Jr> game creation system
08:32 <z-man> Oh great.
08:33 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: how are you fitting the parabola in simpson's rule?
08:34 <z-man> Through the midpoint and the edge points of the interval (so here, it would match the function at 0, pi/2 and pi)?
08:34 <wrtlprnft> ok, added my news, too :)
08:34 <joda_bot> is there need to hurry ?
08:34 <wrtlprnft> z-man: haha, i found that warning in eSound, too :P
08:34 <wrtlprnft> didn
08:35 <wrtlprnft> *was planning to fix it with my next commit
08:35 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: if so, it should give you 2/3 the value of the midpoint rule here, because your function is zero at the ends.
08:35 <joda_bot> because I'll have check the teamname stuff for behaviour changes
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, the lecture just showed us to use parabolas to approximate the graph, integrate the parabolas instead, and then memorize this formula that does it for us :)
08:36 <z-man> #g pi ^ 3 / 4
08:36 <armabot> z-man: (pi^3) / 4 = 7.75156917
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> so you take the same deltax and use the left and right side where it intersects the graph, then the midpoint, and use those three points to make the parabola
08:36 <z-man> That's what I get for the midpoint rule
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> or, use this nice formula :)
08:36  * Lucifer_arma wonders if we're using the same terminology for this
08:36 <z-man> I think so, yes.
08:37 <z-man> At least I understand what you're saying :)
08:37 <z-man> The function values in question are f(0) = 0, f(pi) = 0, and f(pi/2) = (pi/2)^2
08:37 <z-man> so the midpoint rule should give pi * f(pi/2), which I just fed to google
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I left something out.  For n=8 rectangles
08:37 <z-man> ah
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> :)
08:38 <z-man> then your results should be more similar and you should be worried :)
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> they get 5.932957 in the back of the book
08:38 <z-man> The function is rather smooth.
08:39 <z-man> Perhaps you should compare your results interval by interval?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> away school
08:40 <wrtlprnft> oops
08:40 <wrtlprnft> /away school
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134/8 + 0.1927708/8 + 0.80139415/8 + 1.8528054/8 + 3.0628007/8 + 3.8767477/8 + 3.6198073/8 + 1.6923026/8
08:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.00752134 / 8) + (0.1927708 / 8) + (0.80139415 / 8) + (1.8528054 / 8) + (3.0628007 / 8) + (3.8767477 / 8) + (3.6198073 / 8) + (1.6923026 / 8) = 1.88826875
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I see my mistake now
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> I left the pi out of the delta x
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134pi/8 + 0.1927708pi/8 + 0.80139415pi/8 + 1.8528054pi/8 + 3.0628007pi/8 + 3.8767477pi/8 + 3.6198073pi/8 + 1.6923026pi/8
08:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ((0.00752134 * pi) / 8) + ((0.1927708 * pi) / 8) + ((0.80139415 * pi) / 8) + ((1.8528054 * pi) / 8) + ((3.0628007 * pi) / 8) + ((3.8767477 * pi) / 8) + ((3.6198073 * pi) / 8) + ((1.6923026 * pi) / 8) = 5.93217123
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> google rules
08:43 <z-man> looks better :)
08:44 <z-man> Your antiderivative should be easy to get if you integrate by parts, twice.
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh, we didn't cover that last semester, and we kinda skipped over it.  Here's what I came up with:
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> -x^2 cos(x) + 2x sin(x) - 2 sin(x) + C  <----- indefinite
08:48 <z-man> That last one should be +2 cos(x)
08:48 <z-man> or wait...
08:48 <z-man> yes, 2 cos(x)
08:49 <z-man> it's derivative needs to cancel one of the partial derivatives of 2x sin(x).
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> I follow.  To pull it out of the integral you have to take its antiderivative, right?
08:49 <z-man> Right.
08:50 <z-man> And your first term, -x^2 cos(x), produces x^2 sin(x) - 2x cos(x) as a derivative.
08:50 <z-man> The first one, you want, the second one needs cancellation.
08:51 <z-man> So you put its antiderivative in there, too, with a negative sign.
08:51 <z-man> 2 x sin(x) gives you the derivative 2 x cos(x) + 2 sin(x).
08:51 <z-man> Again, the first bit is what you want, but the second one needs cancellation.
08:52 <z-man> So you put in 2 cos(x) and you're done.
08:52 <z-man> Tha'ts integrating by parts :)
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> :)  looks pretty straightforward.
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g pi^2 - 4
08:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (pi^2) - 4 = 5.8696044
08:53 <z-man> looks correct.
08:54 <Luke-Jr> 1.0 released in 1994
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> man I'm sleepy, I just went over your derivative up there 3 times, heh.
08:54  * Lucifer_arma was halfway through the definite part of the problem when you were giving the explanation, going back over it now
08:54 <z-man> The general "integration by parts" rule is: the antiderivative of (f' * g) is (f * g) minus the antiderivative of (f * g').
08:55 <z-man> Sorry, ignore me if I hinder your learning :)
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I follow it now.  It's pretty straightforward.
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> nah, don't worry about it.  The way the class is being divided between two teachers, we'll get to this or he'll cover it, and I'll be a little ahead.
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> Probably someone will ask about this problem.  :)
09:03 <Luke-Jr> for DOS =p
09:07 <z-man> Hmm, 50000 error messages :)
09:08 <z-man> Don't save files while gcc is reading them.
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> now how the hell am I supposed to figure out the error for this?  :(
09:09 <z-man> Probably just compare your results :)
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, he didn't finish covering that last time, I'll skip it and move on to these other problems that don't do it
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, yeah.  heh
09:10 <z-man> But of course there is some standard way ; the error of the midpoint method is proportional to the second derivative of your function and the error of simpson, umm, I guess to the fourth derivative.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> upon rereading the directions, it looks like they just want ( actual value - approximation )
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, toher way around.
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> Yeah, we're covering the fancy formula for computing the maximum error in the approximation, but ran out of time last time to complete that part
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> this problem is early enough in the set not to expect it to use that stuff
09:11  * Lucifer_arma shouldn't do homework when he's sleepy
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> but class is a little over an hour away :)
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 19.3103276
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 19.3103276
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)/8
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488) / 8 = 2.41379095
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09:26 <Lucifer_arma> spammer!
09:27 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> [09:25 am] <-- Luke-Jr has left this server. (Excess Flood)
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> [09:26 am] --> Luke-Jr has joined this channel. (n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d)
09:28 <Luke-Jr> bs
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr came on here like a hurricane hitting land
09:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1.0038836/4 + 1.0334411/4 + 1.0859317/4 + 1.1527221/4 + 1.2268656/4 + 1.303911/4 + 1.381319/4 + 1.457738/4
09:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1.0038836 / 4) + (1.0334411 / 4) + (1.0859317 / 4) + (1.1527221 / 4) + (1.2268656 / 4) + (1.303911 / 4) + (1.381319 / 4) + (1.457738 / 4) = 2.41145303
09:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 4*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 4*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 4*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 4*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)/12
09:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (4 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (4 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (4 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (4 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488) / 12 = 2.41223333
09:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 4*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 4*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 4*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 4*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)
09:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (4 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (4 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (4 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (4 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 28.9468
09:56  * Lucifer_arma is away: school
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11:07 <spidey> hey lack
11:11 <joda_bot> hi all
11:18 <Lackadaisical> hey
11:20 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
11:31 <joda_bot> :-)
11:32 <joda_bot> x3r: wants to make a national cup
11:32 <joda_bot> I'm not sure if there are not too many people trying to host competitions
11:41 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:52 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
12:20 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4001 just read this
12:20 <joda_bot> so we will put all build environments into the build module ?
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> beats me
12:23  * Lucifer_arma is back.
12:28 <joda_bot> :)
12:28 <joda_bot> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=54121#54121
12:28 <joda_bot> In that post
12:28 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: don't you suggest exactly that ?
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> the build module is a different module than the armagetronad module
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> the build module currently contains the spec files for rpm and autopackage, and whatever passes for spec files for debian and ubuntu
12:39 <Lucifer_arma> it contains automation scripts for automating the builds, building a source tarball, source zip (for windows, with windows line endings), rpm, source rpm, autopackage, and uploading all of them to sourceforge
12:39 <Lucifer_arma> I'd keep the automation scripts separate, but put the other stuff in the core armagetronad module
12:42 <joda_bot> other stuff = icons ?
12:42 <joda_bot> and makedist.bat ?
12:43 <joda_bot> or just the resources required for windows builds ?
12:45 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: What about the nsi script for the windows installer ... hm would be a resource then ?
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> what about the readme file?
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> see, it's like this
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> if you use linux and you want to build the game, all you do is download the source tarball
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> if you use windows and you want to build the game, what do you have to do?
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> feels more like we're sticking to the letter of the GPL, but not quite the spirit
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> I think that you should have everything in the source tarball that's needed to build the very binary distribution we put up for download (barring automation scripts we use for our own purposes)
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> so there'd be a armagetronad/win directory, maybe with armagetronad/win/visualc and armagetronad/win/codeblocks and what-have-you
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> so yes, the .nsi file, the .spec files for the rpms, all that good stuff
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> whatever nemo uses for mac
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> there'd be a mac subdirectory
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> and to add insult to injury, the source tarball has integrated into its very structure the gnu build system.  No real way around that without a lot of work we don't need to do
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> so, the convenience libraries we provide for windows users would still be in its own module.  Windows folks would be expected to satisfy dependencies on their own, or at least as a separate download
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> if it were mine and only my decision to make, that's what we'd do, no question about it
12:54 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: mac builds are already in the diretory
13:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> wb z-man
13:01  * Lucifer_arma politely welcomes z-man to the channel
13:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:26 <spidey> he didn't like your welcome :p
13:27 <spidey> linux owns for servers
13:27 <spidey>  14:27:50 up 5 days, 21:43,  2 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.10, 0.08
13:27 <spidey> almost idle
13:28 <spidey> i moved one of my soldat servers to it
13:28 <spidey> doesn't even phase it
13:28 <spidey> heh
13:28 <spidey> on windows i can barely play tron with it running
13:32 <MaZuffeR> spidey: the soldat server is fucked up
13:34 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: seems like z-man does not like politeness :-P
13:38 <spidey> i saw
13:38 <spidey> rebooting it
13:38 <spidey> sex
13:39 <spidey> SEC*
13:39 <MaZuffeR> ok
13:39 <spidey> -caps
13:40 <spidey> k,it's restarted
13:46 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:49  * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man again
13:49  * spidey watches z-man  leave again
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's his client just logging in and out, he's probably asleep or something
13:50 <z-man> Yeah, I'm just too lazy to log out when I put the computer to sleep
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, he's here!
13:50 <spidey> lmao
13:50 <z-man> And the DCOP stuff wrtl dug out doesn't work properly.
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> ?  for what?
13:51 <z-man> (That's basically why I'm marked as away,  to tell you you can't rely on my presence)
13:51 <z-man> DCOP to tell kopete to log out
13:52 <z-man> It works quite well, but not from the apmd pre-sleep scripts
13:52 <z-man> When they get called, kopete is already frozen
13:52  * Lucifer_arma is away: Gone away for now.
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> oops
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> that's not what I meant to do, heh
13:53  * Lucifer_arma loves dcop
13:53  * Lucifer_arma is back.
13:53 <spidey> that was fast
13:53 <spidey> you know what
13:54 <spidey> i think i registered this name along ass time ago
13:54 <spidey> ut i can't remember the pass :/
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> Hi there
13:55 <spidey> damn maz plays soldat like he plays tron
13:55  * spidey glad i didn't make a combat server
13:55 <spidey> s:s
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> man, you can't just say to a channel, it's either all or none
13:56 <spidey> wth are you on about?
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> messing with dcop, sorry
13:56 <spidey> lmfao
13:56  * spidey saw a file .dcop in his /home dir
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's a command, too
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> type dcop into a terminal
13:57  * spidey is still a nix noob :p
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> dcop is kde stuff
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's intry-process communicable or something like that
13:57 <spidey> uoh
13:57 <spidey> oh
13:58 <spidey> ok his short in the keyboard wire is annoying
13:58 <Lucifer_arma> dcop kwin KWinInterface nextDesktop  <--- put that in a terminal
13:59 <spidey> cool
13:59 <spidey> i removed those little multi-desktop tabs though
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> do dcop to get a list of services available
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> then dcop <service> for a list of interfaces
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> then dcop <service> <interface> for a list of functions that do stuff
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> and don't forget about control-tab
14:00 <spidey> hmm
14:01 <spidey> i'm still amazed at my loads
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> eat less beans?
14:01 <spidey>  15:01:45 up 5 days, 22:17,  2 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.30, 0.21
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> 5 days?  that's it?
14:01 <spidey> not the uptime
14:02 <spidey> the loads
14:02 <spidey> i'm running that soldat server on this box
14:02 <spidey> and the loads aren't any higher
14:02 <spidey> than normal
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> 14:02:12 up 1 day,  3:13,  3 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.18, 0.17  <--- heh heh
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> 14:02:34 up 5 days,  1:10,  1 user,  load average: 1.79, 1.65, 1.58  <--- my laptop
14:02 <spidey> 1 day? thats it?
14:02 <spidey> :p
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> that's my server.  Apparently it got shut down again, probably my 2 year old
14:03 <spidey> lol
14:03 <Lucifer_arma> normally it'd show more like a month or so, that's about how often between his attacks.  He must have just had one recently though
14:03 <spidey> lmao
14:03  * Lucifer_arma understands now why he had to restart the distcc daemon
14:04 <spidey> i'ma try to gather some spare parts i got here and throw togethor a bsd box
14:04 <spidey> i got a 133mhz mobo
14:04 <spidey> lmao
14:05 <spidey> socket A
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> good car computer
14:05 <spidey> it was made back in '95
14:05 <spidey> it's a ibm processor
14:07 <spidey> it's got 4 sticks of 74pin ram
14:07 <spidey> heh
14:10 <GodTodd> 74 pin?
14:10 <joda_bot> What sound better to the american / british audience ? 
14:10 <joda_bot> Amount of points you get get for dying
14:10 <joda_bot> What you get for dying
14:10 <spidey> DIMM and SIMMram....
14:11 <spidey> it's old ram
14:11 <joda_bot> ups ... only one get ;)
14:11 <GodTodd> thought the old stuff was 72 pin...
14:11 <spidey> yea
14:11  * spidey has bad memory
14:11 <GodTodd> i know 72 pin is butt expensive now
14:11  * spidey takes that statement back cause he knows what luci's gonna say
14:12 <joda_bot> So What you get for dying or Amount of points you get for dying ?
14:12 <joda_bot> which help text sounds better ?
14:12 <spidey> 0
14:13 <joda_bot> is 0 an answer ? :-P
14:13  * spidey don't think you should get points for dying
14:13 <spidey> simpley because.....you died
14:13 <spidey> simplely
14:13 <joda_bot> 1) Amount of points you get for killing someone
14:13 <joda_bot> 2) What you get for killing someone
14:13 <joda_bot> if you prefer this case
14:13 <spidey> 1
14:14 <GodTodd> the first one i think
14:14 <joda_bot> might also shorten the 1) one to "points you get
14:14 <joda_bot> ok I'll commit my change then
14:14 <GodTodd> you could probably even truncate to "points for killing someone"
14:15 <joda_bot> ah wait , that's two out of 100+ players ...
14:15 <spidey> LOL
14:15 <joda_bot> Not sure, because that's a help text and making it too short does not explain too much
14:16 <joda_bot> Amount of points for killing somone ?
14:16 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: z-man: Lucifer_arma: bump
14:16 <spidey> you get # points for killing a opponate
14:16 <spidey> 'er
14:17 <spidey> you get # points for killing a opponent
14:17 <z-man> 1) if you ask me
14:18  * spidey trips z-man as he answers joda
14:18  * z-man falls flat on his fasse
14:18 <z-man> face
14:18 <spidey> lol
14:18  * z-man chases spidey up a tree
14:18  * spidey hides behind joda
14:19  * z-man hits yoda with a frying pan (by accident, of course)
14:19 <spidey> lol!
14:19  * joda_bot uses the force to deflect the pan to spidey
14:19  * spidey ducks and watches it fly a Lucifer_arma 
14:19  * spidey points to z-man 
14:19  * joda_bot can't be hit because he's only 1m heigh :-P
14:20 <spidey> leopercon
14:20 <z-man> Right, and you can't hide behind him :)
14:20  * joda_bot lights up his light saber and starts to wirl
14:20  * z-man likes the muppet joda better
14:20 <joda_bot> me too
14:21  * spidey wants a light sabre L.
14:21 <spidey> :/
14:21  * joda_bot has a heart attack and falls back to the crane walking technique
14:22 <z-man> err, back to work. I'm already half finished with my change wishes for :)
14:22  * spidey says MaZuffeR's name to distract him while he plays soldat
14:22 <spidey> evil grin
14:22 <spidey> :>
14:24 <spidey> wtf
14:24 <spidey> MaZuffeR, the server fucking up again?
14:25 <MaZuffeR> it's working fine :)
14:25 <spidey> the same person jsut got kickbanned 3 times in 1 second
14:26 <spidey> then someone joined and got kick banned
14:26 <spidey> lol
14:26 <MaZuffeR> someone joined the zombies team, he got kicked quite fast
14:27 <spidey> ah
14:27 <spidey> well then
14:27 <spidey> seems my script's working
14:27 <spidey> last time it fucked the server up
14:27 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-157.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
14:27 <madmax|pt> hello
14:29 <spidey> ok,maybe it's not working
14:29 <spidey> hey max
14:30 <madmax|pt> hi spidey
14:34 <joda_bot> hi madmax|pt
14:34 <joda_bot> pt = ?
14:34 <joda_bot> portugal ?
14:34 <madmax|pt> yep
14:34 <madmax|pt> "madmax" was already taken
14:34 <joda_bot> oh, so you know simcosmos , well ?
14:34 <madmax|pt> only talked to him a couple of times
14:34 <joda_bot> ah k
14:35 <joda_bot> I've very found memories of playing with sim in the night till 4a.m :-)
14:35 <madmax|pt> eheh
14:36 <madmax|pt> ...im curious if there's other portuguese players out there...
14:37 <spidey> if one day i just disappear,it's because my house burned down
14:37 <madmax|pt> roger that
14:37 <spidey> finished my first project,made a xbox controller work with the computer
14:37 <spidey> now for my next project
14:38 <spidey> soundcard-to-stereo converter
14:38 <joda_bot> spidey: make your computer work ?
14:38 <spidey> this should be fun
14:38 <spidey> no i made a xbox controller work with the computer
14:38 <madmax|pt> thought you were making some kind of napalm bomb
14:38 <spidey> like a gamepad...l
14:38 <spidey> max,no but when i mess with electronics,fires tend to start :p
14:38  * joda_bot thinks spidey does... you never know what happends if you combine random MS products :-P
14:39 <madmax|pt> *M$
14:39 <spidey> hmm
14:39 <madmax|pt> btw, what about a PS2 controller?
14:39 <madmax|pt> that would be nicer
14:39 <spidey> dunno
14:39 <spidey> all i did was
14:39 <spidey> i had a broken xbox
14:40 <spidey> so i took where the controller plugged in,broke it out,cut the male end of a usb ppplug,wired them together
14:40 <spidey> downloaded the drivers
14:40 <spidey> and it worked :p
14:41 <spidey> i gotta find some AUX cables
14:44 <madmax|pt> maybe some fire extinguisher too :P
14:46 <madmax|pt> ...dinner...
14:46  * madmax|pt is away: I'm busy
15:04 -!- Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: GodTodd, Luke-Jr, guru3, [2l4]FLAG_afk, SuPeRTaRD, deja_vu
15:04 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
15:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: GodTodd, Luke-Jr, deja_vu, SuPeRTaRD, guru3, [2l4]FLAG_afk
15:05 <GodTodd> my fart wasn't THAT bad...
15:05 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["changing servers"]
15:06 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
15:06 <spidey> dude
15:06 <spidey> it worked
15:06 <spidey> nothing's on fire either
15:07  * spidey dances
15:10  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:24:50)
15:11 <spidey> max
15:11 <spidey> it worked 
15:11  * spidey is playing music on is stereo via his nix box
15:11 <spidey> :D
15:12 <madmax|pt> eheh
15:12 <madmax|pt> 2-0 i guess
15:12 <spidey> now my next project....
15:12 <spidey> any ideas?
15:12 <madmax|pt> linux @ ipod
15:13 <madmax|pt> lol
15:13 <madmax|pt> http://ipodlinux.org/Main_Page
15:13 <spidey> i don't have a ipod
15:13 <madmax|pt> oh
15:14 <madmax|pt> maybe that napalm bomb then?
15:15 <spidey> lol
15:15 <spidey> something i won't get introuble for :p
15:15 <madmax|pt> hmm, its hard then
15:16 <spidey> this is awesome
15:16 <spidey> why didn't i thin about it earlier
15:17 <madmax|pt> tell me, what exactly did you do?
15:17 <spidey> ok
15:17 <spidey> you know AUX cables?
15:17 <madmax|pt> yep
15:17 <spidey> the 2 plugs yellow white and red
15:17 <spidey> i took 2 of them
15:18 <spidey> cut them inhalf
15:18 <spidey> in the middle there will be a yellow plastic tube
15:18 <spidey> that's wrapped in another wire(ground)
15:18 <spidey> pull back the lose wire and cut through the plastic peice to the wire inside
15:19 <spidey> take a old set of desktop speakers
15:19 <spidey> where the plug that goes in the output part on the soundcard is cut it off 
15:19 <spidey> then strip it
15:20 <spidey> the wire you pulled back on the aux cables (the ground)  wrap around the black wire on the half that plugs into the suondcard
15:20 <spidey> then take the wire that came out of the yellow plastic tube and wrap it around the other one
15:20 <spidey> plug the aux end into the stereo and the other end into the sound card
15:21 <spidey> put the stereo on AUX/GAME or whatever it is for you
15:21 <spidey> and start playing music on the computer :)
15:22 <spidey> oh
15:22 <spidey> i know what my next project's gonna be
15:22 <joda_bot> nice monologe
15:22 <spidey> a usb lamp
15:22 <spidey> yes,i try to make all this crap cause i'm lazy :p
15:23 <spidey> but it's fun too
15:25 <madmax|pt> hmm, maybe you should "pdf it" and sell on ebay
15:25 <madmax|pt> maybe you'll get some money :D
15:25 <spidey> lmao
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE18.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:26 <spidey> you can do just about anything with computers
15:26 <spidey> it just takes a bit of research
15:26 <madmax|pt> ... and free time
15:26 <spidey> i maybe stupid enough to try it,but i'ma read on it first :p
15:27 <spidey> yea i have alot of free time
15:27 <spidey> now my next question
15:28 <spidey> will the soundcard actually be affected
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE93.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <spidey> i have 780 watts worth of speakers/subs
15:28 <madmax|pt> ... back to the "house burning" issue
15:28 <spidey> guess i won't play music while  i'm asleep :/
16:04 <spidey> interesting
16:04 <spidey> hey max
16:07 <madmax|pt> hey
16:07 <madmax|pt> im playing
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:07 <spidey> lol
16:07 <madmax|pt> im dead now
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:08 <spidey> it only works if you use another set of desktop speakers with headphone jacks as a middleman
16:09 <madmax|pt> hmm
16:14 <spidey>  17:14:18 up 6 days, 29 min,  2 users,  load average: 4.47, 2.28, 1.09
16:14 <spidey> now that's a load,lol
16:15  * spidey only seems to get 1,533kb/s via lan :/
16:18 <madmax|pt> do some magic :D
16:19 <spidey> i should be getting around 50-100mbit :/
16:19 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [i=blah@adsl-71-145-161-122.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
16:26 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-128-49.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:53 <spidey>  17:53:07 up 6 days,  1:08,  2 users,  load average: 0.27, 0.30, 0.48
16:54 <wrtlprnft> lame
16:55 <wrtlprnft>  23:54:50 up 44 days, 23:59,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
16:57 <madmax|pt> lol
16:57  * wrtlprnft creates some load
17:07 <wrtlprnft> spidey:  00:07:12 up 45 days, 12 min,  4 users,  load average: 1.32, 1.17, 0.61
17:07 <wrtlprnft> take that!
17:08 <madmax|pt> 23:08  up  3:12, 2 users, load averages: 1.58 2.00 2.03
17:08 <madmax|pt> load winner
17:08 <madmax|pt> :P
17:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
17:09 <wrtlprnft> i could create more load, but i don't wanna affect my arma server too much
17:09 <wrtlprnft> that was just an emerge sync, normal thing once a day
17:35 <spidey> wrtlprnft, that load came from a ssh transfer i was doing
17:35 <spidey>  18:35:29 up 6 days,  1:51,  2 users,  load average: 0.41, 0.70, 0.53
17:35 <spidey> that's my load now :p
17:39 <wrtlprnft> you'll love it just like me if you nurse your server to reach 30/50/100/etc days and then one day you make a stupid mistake or there's a power outage or something and you can wait again to beat your record :P
17:51 <spidey> lol
17:51 <spidey> when i get 100day uptime i'll be happy
17:51 <spidey> if a poweroutage doesn't get me first
17:51 <spidey> reminds me
17:51 <spidey> i gotta get old ups and rig them with car batteries
17:52 <spidey> that's my next project
17:53 <spidey> 2 car batteries per ups should last through a long power outage
17:53 <spidey> i'll need 4-5 ups
17:53 <spidey> and 8-10 car batteries
17:58 <madmax|pt> do you guys lag when you enter or leave full screen?
17:59 <spidey> yea
17:59 <spidey> KamP is a dick >.>
18:02 <madmax|pt> got some "c++ explanation" 4 that lag wrtl?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> what lag?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> oh, nvm
18:13 <wrtlprnft> yes, there is an explanation
18:13 <wrtlprnft> your graphics card needs some time to switch between the two, and in that time the game waits for it to finish
18:14 <wrtlprnft> so all network stuff that arrived or should have been sent in that time gets delayed.
18:14 <madmax|pt> hmm
18:14 <madmax|pt> thanks
18:15 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:15 <wrtlprnft> at least that's my guess at it ;)
18:17 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
18:20 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, switching screen modes takes time. The switching function just doesn't return for a while. Our hands are tied :(
18:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man: not if we get a separate thread for the UI ;)
18:43 <joda_bot> z-man: any idea which versions are currently used of vorbis, libogg etc. ?
18:43 <joda_bot> Should I look at the svn history ?
18:44 <z-man> joda_bot: I don't have a clue, was it me who added them?
18:45 <z-man> bedtime
18:48 <joda_bot> ok
18:48 <joda_bot> I'll investigate
18:48  * joda_bot prays for cvs logs ;)
18:48  * joda_bot is dumb, can check the dll versions ;)
18:48 <joda_bot> at least for some
18:52 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
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19:00 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:20 <wrtlprnft> the framerate meter is wrong :(
19:20 <wrtlprnft> i clearly have less than one frame per second, and it displays 10FPS
19:27  * madmax|pt is away: Sleep
19:29 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-157.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:10 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:10 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
20:10 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
20:28 -!- guru3_ [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
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21:07 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AC62.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:17 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad armagetronad
21:18 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to have this command not contain the word armagetronad 4 times?
21:22 <nemostultae> export AA_SVN=https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad
21:22 <nemostultae> svn co $AA_SVN/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad
21:22 <nemostultae> you can leave off the last armagetronad, the last path is used if you do.
21:23 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B239.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:43 <wrtlprnft> hmm, ok...
21:56 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-022-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
21:58 -!- vircuser [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
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22:19 -!- vircuser is now known as GodTodd

Log from 2006-06-06:
--- Day changed Tue Jun 06 2006
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> Saaaatan wait!  At hell's gates!
00:24 <GodTodd> blah
00:40 <GodTodd> oh...and....Desecrate! Pain! Torture! Hate!
00:40 <GodTodd> ;)
00:42 <[NP]Tangent> Desecrate, pain, torture, and hate
00:42 <[NP]Tangent> sounds like my love life
00:42 <[NP]Tangent> :|
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> live in hatred die in grief!
01:07 <[NP]Tangent> no, I believe you mean
01:07 <[NP]Tangent> live near tangent and die from grief
01:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, it'd be more like "live near tangent and die from boredom!"
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> but that doesn't fit in the song
01:54 <[NP]Tangent> hah
01:54 <[NP]Tangent> I'm a drummer
01:54 <[NP]Tangent> no way they'd get bored
02:14 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:12 <Luke-Jr> z-man: any reason why the top-of-playerwall line isn't offset by extrarise?
03:13 -!- guru3_ is now known as guru3
03:14 <Luke-Jr> guru3: hi
03:14 <guru3> hi
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> hi
03:15 <guru3> anyone know how to convert ext2 to ext3?
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> #g 4^3
03:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 4^3 = 64
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> umm, it's in the gentoo docs, I know that
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E2fsprogs
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> start there :)
03:22 <guru3> ok
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> #g 32*3
03:22 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 32 * 3 = 96
03:22 <guru3> i'll get around to that at some point
03:22 <guru3> does anyone know of any cons of using two wifi comps on the sam net with the same mac and ip?
03:22 <Luke-Jr> guru3: easy to convert
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> besides it not working?
03:22 <guru3> well
03:22 <guru3> it's working so far
03:23 <guru3> so any other provable cons?
03:23 <Luke-Jr> it can't work... >.>
03:23 <Luke-Jr> not for TCP
03:23 <guru3> it is
03:23 <Luke-Jr> probably not
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> no, it can't.  there's gotta be something else going on, like maybe the network driver is changing its mac automatically, or one is connected to a different network
03:23 <Luke-Jr> anyway, tune2fs -j /dev/hdX#
03:23 <guru3> i would prove it
03:23 <guru3> if i had a way to
03:24 <Luke-Jr> NormalComputer sends a TCP packet to SharedMAC+IP
03:25 <Luke-Jr> SharingComputerA gets the packet and knows what it is, since it has that connection
03:25 <Luke-Jr> SharingComputerB gets the packet and say "WTF is this crap" and sends a error back
03:25 <guru3> hmm well
03:25 <guru3> it seems to work
03:26 <Luke-Jr> something else is going on
03:26 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
03:26 <guru3> i dunno what it is
03:27 <guru3> but everything points to it working
03:28 <guru3> it seems it does have slight side effects
03:28 <guru3> on persistent tcp connections
03:28 <guru3> such as ssh
03:38 -!- luke [n=luke@] has joined #armagetron
03:39 -!- luke [n=luke@] has left #armagetron []
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> x = e^y is the same as y=ln(x), right?
03:45 <guru3> yes
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, figured out what I needed.  :)  Instead of having to solve e^y = y^2 - 2, since the area I'm trying to find is bounded by y = +-1, I can just take those as my limits of integration
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> the problem's number is colored, which means there's a point where you say "Oh, that's easy", and if you dn't reach that point, you're doing something wrong :)
03:51 <guru3> lol
03:52 <[NP]Tangent> good night, guys
03:52 <[NP]Tangent> I'm dead
03:52 <Luke-Jr> o
03:52 <Luke-Jr> but you just starting talking
03:53 <[NP]Tangent> nah, I spoke a while ago
03:53 <[NP]Tangent> I need to start playing AA more
03:53 <[NP]Tangent> ah well
03:53 <[NP]Tangent> good night
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> #g -0.5 +- sqrt(33)/2
04:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: -0.5 + (-sqrt(33) / 2) = -3.37228132
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> #g -0.5 + sqrt(33)/2
04:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: -0.5 + (sqrt(33) / 2) = 2.37228132
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> #g 14*3
04:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 14 * 3 = 42
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> #g 15*6
04:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 15 * 6 = 90
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> #g 88/6
04:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 88 / 6 = 14.6666667
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> #g 78/3
04:11 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 78 / 3 = 26
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g 18*3
04:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 18 * 3 = 54
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g 54/3
04:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 54 / 3 = 18
05:13 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
05:20 <Luke-Jr> morning
05:30  * Luke-Jr decides to write some 3D support into Arma
05:31 <Luke-Jr> (meaning tCoord.z = up)
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> so -tCoord.z = down?
05:38 <Luke-Jr> sure
05:38  * Luke-Jr drives below the floor =p
05:41 <Luke-Jr> BTW, 3D support will screw up mirror
05:42 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> why?  You just take -tCoord.z to do the mirror, right?
05:46 <Luke-Jr> visual mirror
05:46 <Luke-Jr> unless you presume the bottom level is the only mirror
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, that's not a problem right now, the floor is the only mirror.
05:47 <Luke-Jr> once there's 3D movement, there's more than one floor =p
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> :)
05:48 <Luke-Jr> I think the hardest part implementing ramps might be drawing the floor and ramp =p
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> we'll need to compute what actually gets mirrored at that point, which I don't think we do.  But we'll need to take the angle of the viewer to the mirror and bounce that vector to get what's visible.
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> I think all that happens right now is the scene is rendered twice, once upside down and with some gl flags set (maybe to a differnet buffer, i don't know)
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*3
05:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 16 * 3 = 48
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*3 - 16
05:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (16 * 3) - 16 = 32
05:57 <spidey> #g Lucifer_arma*wrtlprnft+n54
05:57 <armabot> spidey: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
05:57 <spidey> xD
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(2)
06:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(2) = 0.693147181
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(4) + 9/4
06:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(4) + (9 / 4) = 3.63629436
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's those damn details that get you
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.298666666 * ( 4*0.00065 + 2*0.00472 + 4*0.014184 + 2*0.02941 + 4*0.04903 + 2*0.6969 + 4*0.085666 + 2*0.0883 + 4*0.06534)
06:26 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 0.298666666 * ((4 * 0.00065) + (2 * 0.00472) + (4 * 0.014184) + (2 * 0.02941) + (4 * 0.04903) + (2 * 0.6969) + (4 * 0.085666) + (2 * 0.0883) + (4 * 0.06534)) = 0.746111145
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> I want an acceleration gauge, and I probably want it in place of the velocity gauge
07:02 <wrtlprnft> hmm
07:02 <wrtlprnft> makes sense and should be possible
07:02 <wrtlprnft> there's still a bunch of callbacks missing
07:02 <wrtlprnft> a few for team scores would be nice
07:03 <wrtlprnft> also your position as coordinates, your name (and the name of the player you're watching) and color
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> have you thought about hud widgets for other cycles?  I'm not sure it falls within the cockpit, but I was thinking it would be nice for cycles within a certain range
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> to see their velocity, acceleration, ping, and estimated time to impact (assume I turn towards them by one turn if I'm parallel to them, and predict as needed)
07:05 <wrtlprnft> that would be relatively complicated :(
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> it's hud data in the sense of if I were wearing a helmet with fancy readouts, it would show me these things, but it's not necessarily cockpit information
07:06 <wrtlprnft> currently you'd need a separate callback for every cycle
07:06 <Luke-Jr> hm
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, the cockpit could parse the xml anyway and provide callbacks for the widgets, then gCycle could render the gauges
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> the hard part is turning the gauges to face the camera :)
07:06 <Luke-Jr> I want to see a mini-HUD with their info on top of their cycle :)
07:07 <wrtlprnft> o_O
07:07 <wrtlprnft> but it would make sense somehow
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2/3 * (4*6.2 + 2*7.2 + 4*6.8 + 2*5.6 + 4*5.0 + 2*4.8 + 4*4.8)
07:08 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (2 / 3) * ((4 * 6.2) + (2 * 7.2) + (4 * 6.8) + (2 * 5.6) + (4 * 5.0) + (2 * 4.8) + (4 * 4.8)) = 84.2666667
07:09 <Lucifer_arma> #g (4*6.2 + 2*7.2 + 4*6.8 + 2*5.6 + 4*5.0 + 2*4.8 + 4*4.8)
07:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (4 * 6.2) + (2 * 7.2) + (4 * 6.8) + (2 * 5.6) + (4 * 5.0) + (2 * 4.8) + (4 * 4.8) = 126.4
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> the antiderivative of 3e^2x is 2e^2x, right?
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> er
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> the antiderivative of 3e^2x is 3e^2x, right?
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> where's z-man when you need him?  heh.
07:12 <wrtlprnft> #notes
07:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for a*, Luke-Jr, and phil.
07:13 <wrtlprnft> yeah, Luke-Jr can't get notes since he's silenced for armabot
07:13 <wrtlprnft> so armabot doesn't know when he's active
07:13 <wrtlprnft> #notes Lucifer_arma 
07:13 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
07:13 <wrtlprnft> #notes Luke-Jr 
07:13 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 1 week, 2 days, 16 hours, and 34 minutes ago: <z-man> Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
07:13 <wrtlprnft> grr
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> I think my pencils are defective.  I just put new lead in them and it's coming out broken up in small pieces, I'm going through lead very quickly.  :(
07:17 <wrtlprnft> happened to me, too
07:17 <wrtlprnft> then i got a new pencil and it works :)
07:17 <wrtlprnft> in the long run cheaper than wasting lead en masse
07:20 <Lucifer_arma> it's a shame, these pencils are very nice otherwise
07:20 <wrtlprnft> all of them?
07:20 <wrtlprnft> not just one?
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> two.  Only two came in the package.
07:28 <wrtlprnft> maybe you have the wrong kind of lead?
07:28 <wrtlprnft> too thick or too soft?
07:47 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
07:49 <spidey> hey
07:49 <spidey> man,i think the reason i been sliding lately is my router or connection
07:52 <Lucifer_arma> the antiderivative of sin(2x) is -cos(2x) ?
07:53  * Lucifer_arma suspects something in that antiderivative, something about the constant
07:53 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> if I use substitution I get the antiderivative is more like -1/2 cos(2x)
07:55 <MaZuffeR> -1/2 cos(2x) is correct i think
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> soooo...  the integral I'm trying to work is (cosx - sin(2x))
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> MaZuffeR: yeah, if you take the derivative of that you wind up with sin(2x)
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> where I'm getting lost is on the larger function.  If I use substitution I'm stuck with a cosx that I can't work with
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, I think I'm trying to make it harder for no good reason
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> ty :)
08:07 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln1
08:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0
08:07 <Lucifer_arma> why can't I remember that?  :(
08:07  * Lucifer_arma goes into private commune with armabot
08:19 <wrtlprnft> haha
08:19  * wrtlprnft likes calculators more for that stuff
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> I like being able to put in much bigger expressions
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> although, if I keep doing this simpson's rule homework I'm going to write a python app to do it instead, I've had enough of it
08:30 <wrtlprnft> lol
08:31 <wrtlprnft> much bigger expressions?
08:31 <wrtlprnft> my calculatur doesn't seem to have a practical limit for expression lengths
08:32 <wrtlprnft> i guess it would run out of RAM at some point, but...
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> 10 subdivisions, and the formula goes something like deltax/3[ f(0) + 4f(1) + 2f(2) + 4f(3) + 2f(4) + 4f(5) + f(6) ]
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> sure, my calculator will hold all of it, but I find that typing it in is a lot easier on a computer :)
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> here:
08:34  * wrtlprnft thinks the opposite :P
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1/10 * ( 1 + 2*(1.04081) + 2*(1.173511) + 2*(1.433329) + 2*(1.89648) + 2*(2.7182818) + 2*(4.2206958 + 2*(7.099327) + 2*(12.935817 + 2*(25.533722) + 54.59815)
08:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 / 10) * (1 + (2 * 1.04081) + (2 * 1.173511) + (2 * 1.433329) + (2 * 1.89648) + (2 * 2.7182818) + (2 * (4.2206958 + (2 * 7.099327) + (2 * (12.935817 + (2 * 25.533722) + 54.59815))))) = 52.8769167
08:35 <wrtlprnft> calculators are much more tolerant about lazyness than python
08:35 <wrtlprnft> #g 5pi
08:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 5 * pi = 15.7079633
08:35 <wrtlprnft> woo
08:35 <wrtlprnft> #g sin(pi
08:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: sin(pi) = 0
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g sin(e)
08:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: sin(e) = 0.410781291
08:36 <wrtlprnft> #g 2^-1
08:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2^-1 = 0.5
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> there's a worthless number, haha
08:36 <wrtlprnft> #g log(pi,e
08:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: log(pi * e) = 0.931444355
08:36 <wrtlprnft> wtf
08:37 <wrtlprnft> i wanted log base e of pi
08:37 <wrtlprnft> #g log(pi)/log e
08:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: log(pi) / log(e) = 1.14472989
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g log(pi)
08:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: log(pi) = 0.497149873
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g log e(pi)
08:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: log(e) * pi = 1.36437635
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g log^e(pi)
08:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's still silly, because...
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(pi)
08:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(pi) = 1.14472989
08:37 <wrtlprnft> no, log base pi of e i meant
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> ah, that would be the unnatural log, which is forbidden in the USA, because anything unnatural is forbidden
08:38 <wrtlprnft> #g log(e)/log pi
08:38 <armabot> wrtlprnft: log(e) / log(pi) = 0.873568527
08:38 <wrtlprnft> lol
08:38 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you wanna make the callback for acceleration? I'm kinda stuck
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5050550.stm
08:39 <wrtlprnft> ok, log with the base of pi is lp from now on
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> isn't there a member of gCycle that stores acceleration?
08:39 <wrtlprnft> #g lp pi
08:39 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:39 <wrtlprnft> it's private and depends on the timestep length
08:39 <wrtlprnft> #g lg 100
08:39 <armabot> wrtlprnft: lg(100) = 6.64385619
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I want instantaneous acceleration anyway :)
08:39 <wrtlprnft> #g log 100
08:39 <armabot> wrtlprnft: log(100) = 2
08:40 <wrtlprnft> what base is lg?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> #g ld 1024
08:40 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> #g log(100)
08:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: log(100) = 2
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> #g lg(100)
08:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: lg(100) = 6.64385619
08:40 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:40 <MaZuffeR> lg is base 2
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(100)
08:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(100) = 4.60517019
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> really?  lg is binary?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> lg *sjould* be base of 10
08:40 <wrtlprnft> ld *should* be base of 2
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> ld's the linker
08:41 <wrtlprnft> #g lg 1024
08:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: lg(1,024) = 10
08:41 <wrtlprnft> haha
08:41  * Lucifer_arma hates the midpoint rule
08:41 <wrtlprnft> g2g shool
08:41 <wrtlprnft> *shool
08:41 <wrtlprnft> *school
08:41 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> screw it, I'm just going to move on
08:45 <spidey> lol
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> let's just stop all work on the game, it's fine the way it is, no need to do any more to it
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> anybody know of a good graphing program for linux that handles 3 dimensional objects?
13:54 <nemostultae> modeling program, you mean?
13:54 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:54 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:55 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: ?
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> no, not a modeling program, at least, not like blender
13:58 <Lucifer_arma> I'm given 4 functions, and I need to find the volume of the area bounded by those functions rotated around a line, mostly the x or y axis
13:58 <Lucifer_arma> it would be neat to have a program that could graph it for me that I could look at.  :)
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: how do I get the instantaneous acceleration of a cycle?
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> wrtl_web_broken: ? ?
14:06 <wrtl_web_broken> 13:32 <Lucifer_arma> let's just stop all work on the game, it's fine the way it is, no need to do any more to it
14:06 <wrtl_web_broken> ?
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=54431#54431
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> I read that as "don't add anything new, the game is fine like it is"
14:08 <wrtl_web_broken> povray can do functions a la Axx Byy Cxy Dx Ey F=0
14:08 <wrtl_web_broken> upto any power, i think
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> REAL            acceleration;   <--- in gCycleMovement, is this instantaneous acceleration?
14:08 <wrtl_web_broken> and you get them calculated with proper lighting and shadows and all.
14:13 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: that's the acceleration for the next timestep
14:14 <wrtl_web_broken> so it's the velocity difference. In the same conditions it will be bigger with a big next timestep and smaller with a small next timestep
14:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> what's its unit?  m/sec/sec ?
14:19 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["g2g. bb in one and a half hours"]
14:50 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-196-32.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
14:50 <madmax|pt> hello
14:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034186071.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> the whole problem changes if you draw the picture right, grrrr.......
15:02  * madmax|pt is away: Dinner...
15:04 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
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15:20 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034186071.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> if I were a supervillain, I'd be called Paraboloid
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15:30  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:27:52)
15:31 <madmax|pt> Paraboloid?
15:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> yessir, Paraboloid.
15:43 <madmax|pt> Paraboloid wouldnt sell.
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> I'd come swooping in with my rocket shoes and laser rifle and start shooting up the place while everybody else says "What the fuck is a paraboloid?"
15:43 <madmax|pt> lol
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> and then some smart-ass calc student would compute my volume and I'd be defeated
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> but I'd come back as the integrator, and I'd go to school playgrounds, point my laser rifle at the kids there and say "Go tell your parents to give me all their money!"
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd fight awesome battles that would ravage entire downtown landscapes with my archenemy the Antiderivative
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> ultimately he'd figure out he was just my tool, but by then I'd rule the world!  Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> hmm.  I think I've been working too hard on this calculus stuff.
15:47 <madmax|pt> lol
15:48 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-023-097.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> volume of a cylinder is pi*r^2*height, right?
15:49 <madmax|pt> right
15:49 <joda_bot> z-man: Lucifer_arma: To which library or include does rSysdep.cpp:332 belong ? ... It's a "write(" methog
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> that's a good question.  grep only turned up that one instance of it (other than stuff that's obviously attached to other unrelated things)
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> png.h ?
15:53 <joda_bot> hm, png.h is part of ?
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's up there, and the function is make_screenshot(), what else would it be?
15:54 <z-man> No, png functions start with png_
15:54 <z-man> It has something to do with Luke's video recording thing, I guess.
15:55 <joda_bot> aw
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> can you give us the pertinent lines in the compiler output?
15:55 <joda_bot> Because I don't have the function on windows
15:55 <joda_bot> ompiling: ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp: In function `void make_screenshot()':
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp:332: error: `write' undeclared (first use this function)
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp:332: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.)
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp: In member function `virtual bool rFastForwardCommandLineAnalyzer::DoAnalyze(tCommandLineParser&)':
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp:443: error: `dup' undeclared (first use this function)
15:55 <z-man> According to man, it's in unistd.h
15:55 <joda_bot> ..\armagetronad\src\render\rSysdep.cpp:446: error: `dup2' undeclared (first use this function)
15:55 <joda_bot> Process terminated with status 1 (7 minutes, 4 seconds)
15:55 <joda_bot> 4 errors, 4 warnings
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> what are the 4 warnings?
15:56 <z-man> Try #include <unistd.h>, Luke forgot that :)
15:56 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: some uninitisalized stuff can be ignored
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> ok, no missed includes, then?
15:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: no, I would have been able to fix that
15:57 <joda_bot> z-man: Should I move all code blocks stuff into armagetronad now ?
15:57 <joda_bot> and we scrap the build_codeblocks module ?
15:58 <joda_bot> or keep all windows build stuff outside
15:58 <z-man> If that suits you. I don't mind.
15:58 <z-man> brb
15:59 <z-man> My personal criterion, as stated, is that "if it goes into the tarball, it should be in the main module".
16:00 <z-man> The code::blocks stuff gets into the src.zip. That qualifies.
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> so if I've got (x^3)^2 to integrate, is it ok for me to simplify that to x^6?
16:00 <z-man> I'd only ask you not to pollute the main directory. Keep it neat.
16:00 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: of course, simplifications are always allowed. 
16:00 <joda_bot> I would do it like nemo did for macosx
16:01 <z-man> Fine by me.
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> I found my screwup.  I took x^6 and somehow integrated it to (heh)  (x^6)/3
16:01 <z-man> That's a new one :)
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> well, the first term was x^2, which integrated to (x^3)/3 , so it's not totally illogical :)
16:02 <joda_bot> What will we do with VisualC builds ?
16:02  * Lucifer_arma is breaking new ground in math!
16:02 <madmax|pt> thats a real bad integration
16:02 <madmax|pt> lol
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> I"m the Real Bad Integrator!  Fear me!  arrrr
16:02  * Lucifer_arma points his laser rifle at madmax|pt 
16:02 <z-man> joda_bot: I don't mind either :)
16:02 <joda_bot> I look at the SDL dists and they add archives for different IDE
16:02 <madmax|pt> oh noooooo
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> go tel your parents to give me all their money!
16:03 <z-man> Yeah, we shouldn't do that.
16:03 <joda_bot> I looked
16:03 <madmax|pt> fear! feaaaaaarrr!
16:03 <z-man> At least not in SVN.
16:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a firm believer that if you get the source distribution, you should reasonably have everything we can reasonably provide to build it for the platforms we support
16:03 <joda_bot> z-man: we could zip the files for source ball generation ?
16:03 <z-man> And it's really silly to untar a tarball and find a zip inside :)
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, if it was a zip inside a zip, that wouldn't be silly, people do that all the time
16:04 <joda_bot> compressing a zip usually compresses better, as ZIP does not collect all files first to compress them as one
16:04 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: the acceleration thing is in m/s
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> not m/s/s?
16:04 <wrtlprnft> no
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, since z-man's talking...
16:05 <z-man> Acceleration is m/s/s.
16:05 <z-man> or m/(s^2)
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> REAL            acceleration;   <--- in gCycleMovement, is this instantaneous acceleration?
16:05 <madmax|pt> yep
16:05 <joda_bot> z-man: the include fixed it
16:05 <wrtlprnft> i know what acceleration is supposed to be in
16:05  * Lucifer_arma wants a gauge for instantaneous acceleration
16:05 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: yes, that's the acceleration in effect right now.
16:05 <wrtlprnft> but from the comments somewhere else i deduced that it's really the speed difference for the next timestep
16:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok, i'm probably wrong then ;)
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, wrtlprnft, as a matter of fact, you're giving us one of the ways my calc teacher gave us of visualizing the derivative and putting it into words :)
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> he'd be proud of you, were you to tell him that :)
16:07 <wrtlprnft> uh, thanks i guess
16:07 <z-man> Yeah, teachers like to hear their own explanations releated to them slightly differetly :)
16:07 <z-man> repeated
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> so I just need a callback to return that member in gCycle
16:07 <wrtlprnft> if it's public
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's a protected member, though, so a new method is needed in gCycle to expose it
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> rather, it's needed in gCycleMovement
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> and a bar gauge that can show negative numbers
16:08 <wrtlprnft> it can already
16:09 <wrtlprnft> you just need to make the minimum negative
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> just set the range to like [-5,5] ?
16:09 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:09 <wrtlprnft> if that doesn't work, it's a bug
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> then pick the colors I want?  :)
16:09 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: uh, any reason you deleted my changes to NEWS?
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'll get to it in a bit, still doing calc homework.  slowly, but doing it.
16:09 <joda_bot> sublipse is really dumb, the plugin does not show conflicts in the gui... the cvs plugin for eclipse shows the conflict and you have to fix it by hand, it does not merge the files ...
16:10 <joda_bot> the svn plugin sublipse ... just puts the <text a  >text b there :-(
16:10  * madmax|pt is away: I'm busy
16:10 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: nvm, i screwed up my svn log command
16:11 <wrtlprnft> or, i screwed up interpreting it
16:11 <z-man> wrtlprnft: you have to "svn update" before your commit appears in the log
16:11 <wrtlprnft> no, that's fine
16:11 <wrtlprnft> it's just all the - sign
16:11 <wrtlprnft> s
16:11 <wrtlprnft> didn't see that there was a space before the minus
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> um, is there a delta in the armagetronad font?
16:13  * Lucifer_arma wants his gauge caption to be ?V
16:13 <wrtlprnft> no, there isn't one
16:13 <wrtlprnft> you can make one, but it won't help
16:13 <wrtlprnft> delta isn't in latin-1
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh.  :(
16:15 <z-man> Well, a perfect reason for unicode, then :)
16:15 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: give me a function that converts utf-8 to utf-16 or find me a way to get FTGL to accept utf-8 and i'll get it going
16:16 <z-man> Shouldn't be too hard, maybe ask our chief bitwrangler Luke?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> http://opengl.geek.nz/weblog/archives/cat_ftgl.html
16:17 <wrtlprnft> search for the first occurence of "utf-8"
16:17 <wrtlprnft> unfortunately id didn't work when i tried :(
16:18 <wrtlprnft> or, nvm, utf-8 isn't 8-bit by that definition
16:18 <wrtlprnft> so, why doesn't that thing tell me how to do that conversion?
16:19 <joda_bot> z-man: Would the nsi installer files go into armagetronad/win32 too ?
16:19 <joda_bot> z-man: or should we consider it a installer or build file
16:20 <z-man> I'd say it's a build file.
16:20 <joda_bot> so move it to winlibs ?
16:20 <z-man> Everything in the tarball to build and run, everything in the build module to distribute.
16:20 <z-man> Winlibs or build.
16:20 <z-man> Probably more useful to the Windows guys if it's in Winlibs.
16:20 <joda_bot> ok, so I move all codeblocks project files to build/win32 ?
16:21 <joda_bot> and also the nsi banner.svg & co ?
16:21 <z-man> Gee, do I have to decide everything here? :)
16:21 <joda_bot> I'm sorry
16:22 <wrtlprnft> z-man: you don't have to, pass it to another project admin :P
16:22  * wrtlprnft looks at Lucifer_arma 
16:22 <z-man> The basic code::blocks project files and makedist.bat, everything that is required to build the thing and run it from the build directory and debug it, goes somewhere into the main armagetronad module.
16:22 <wrtlprnft> http://www.example-code.com/vcpp/convert-utf-8-iso-8859-1.asp
16:23 <joda_bot> z-man: ok ...
16:23 <wrtlprnft> that's vc++ only, right?
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> if he passes it to me, all the spec files, the nsis file, and whatever nemo uses will end up in the main module
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> therefore, he probably doesn't want to pass this one to me :)
16:23 <z-man> And my only condition is that you shouldn't mess up the main directory :) So as long as you hide everyhing in win32, you won't hear me bitching.
16:23 <[Xpert]DarkStar> oh my god...
16:23 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: hehe, right :)
16:24 <wrtlprnft> [Xpert]DarkStar: ?
16:24 <[Xpert]DarkStar> the behaviour of the camera in svn version
16:24 <[Xpert]DarkStar> makes me sick
16:24 <wrtlprnft> you mean glances?
16:24 <[Xpert]DarkStar> yeah
16:24 <wrtlprnft> it's a matter of getting used to it
16:24 <wrtlprnft> trust me, you'll love it after a while
16:24  * wrtlprnft can't play with a regular version of arma anymore
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> do you mean sick as in puking sick, or just sick as in "I'll get used to it eventually"?
16:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Is it still possible to revert to cam ?
16:25 <z-man> meriton is against that.
16:25 <z-man> But I have the feeling that will get overruled at some point.
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> well, meriton can hang himself if this cam will make people sick
16:25 <joda_bot> because we'll stop some players to upgrade 
16:25 <joda_bot> if it's not possible
16:25 <wrtlprnft> well, there's 3 possible things people might want...
16:26 <z-man> joda_bot: exactly.
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> if our choice is "make people sick" or "provide config options meriton hates", we do the thing meriton hates
16:26 <wrtlprnft> they might want the very old glancing, the new glancing, and the version in between
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> they'll get meriton's glance and one that doesn't make them sick and they'll like it :)
16:26 <wrtlprnft> the one that chooses the direction relative to the cycle
16:27 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I compiled SDL_mixer with native MIDI (if that fails), t... emulation and also mp3 support
16:27 <joda_bot> before it only supported mod wav and ogg
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> but it has to be puking sick, not "I'll get used to it" sick.  Who wants to volunteer to test?
16:27 <wrtlprnft> is the MPL compatible to the GPL?
16:28  * [Xpert]DarkStar is cleaning his keyboard because he puked over it
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: umm, that's great.  But if I'm sitting on top of the soundtrack, there won't be any midi.  :)  However, I definitely think that if midi is supportable on enough backends to be worthwhile, then we shoudl allow it for other musicians
16:28 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: how? Drink lots of beer, eat fat snacks, and play for an hour?
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: that sounds like our target audience!
16:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:29 <wrtlprnft> http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/amuse/javascript/expert/utf.txt
16:29 <wrtlprnft> yay that sounds nice enough :D
16:29 <wrtlprnft> just turn it into c++
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> [Xpert]DarkStar: take a picture of the keyboard before you finish and post it
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> in the thread where meriton says "config options suck" :)
16:29 <wrtlprnft> well meriton DOES have a point
16:30 <wrtlprnft> the camera has too many options
16:30 <wrtlprnft> and it's a pain to test them all
16:30 <z-man> We can always fork the camera code.
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> ?
16:30 <z-man> Keep the old stuff (0.2.8) in a separate file and start over with new, clean stuff.
16:30 <z-man> and give a binary option to choose between the two.
16:31 <[Xpert]DarkStar> the glancing would be ok i guess...
16:31 <z-man> The clean one would be designed to be flexible, so we'll have an easier time tweaking it.
16:31 <[Xpert]DarkStar> if it was faster
16:31 <wrtlprnft> [Xpert]DarkStar: there's an option for that
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> there's an option for that
16:31 <wrtlprnft> GLANCE_ANGULAR_VELOCITY i think
16:31 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: You suggested getting the documentation from the wiki ? Did you have a plan in mind how to realize
16:31 <joda_bot> it ?
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> type angular into your console and you'll see it
16:31 <wrtlprnft> no, not yet
16:32 <wrtlprnft> [Xpert]DarkStar: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Camera_Glance_Keys
16:32 <wrtlprnft> you wanna read that :)
16:32 <z-man> Does the WIKI have a plain text export function?
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> last I checked it only had xml
16:32 <wrtlprnft> it has an XML export function
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> which isn't terrible, mind you
16:32 <joda_bot> we should also add some kind of localization to the documenation if possible
16:32 <z-man> minded
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> but we'd have to crawl every page to get it, it doesn't have export the whole wiki
16:32 <wrtlprnft> > How about the auto-kick on whining about lag? Is that reasonably close? Who was working on it?
16:32 <joda_bot> on the wiki: de:rubber
16:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: definitely, we need that!
16:33 <joda_bot> perhaps ?
16:33 <[Xpert]DarkStar> ah got it :D
16:33 <[Xpert]DarkStar> wonderful
16:33 <wrtlprnft> and there's another factor thing
16:33 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: just checking, were you serious about the speed limit kill?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> for glances >90�
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> ok, we don't need to fork the camera code :)
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: yes, that was serious :)
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: can we perhaps put all documentation for the build into a category ?
16:34 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: you can do that :)
16:34 <wrtlprnft> just add [Category:Build] to the end of the page
16:34 <wrtlprnft> IIRC you also have to create a page called Category:Build
16:34 <joda_bot> hm, what would german build documenation use ?
16:34 <joda_bot> [Category:DE:Build] ?
16:35 <wrtlprnft> uh, i guess so
16:35 <z-man> A problem with localized external documentation is that it gets out of sync. Simple logic:
16:35 <wrtlprnft> i don't know how mediawiki handles diffefrent languages
16:35 <z-man> external documentation gets out of sync
16:35 <joda_bot> or would it read [Category:Build,DE]
16:35 <z-man> translations get out of sync with the original
16:35 <wrtlprnft> it might be Category_DE:Build or DE_Category:Build, not sure
16:36 <z-man> ergo, translated external documentation gets useless the day after it's written :)
16:36 <joda_bot> z-man: having some documentation in german is better than having none
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> translators need to be subscribed to the page they translated so they can keep it in sync, but that problem has nothing to do with it being external :)
16:36 <joda_bot> I might also be able to get a few ppl to translate and write basic documentation
16:36 <z-man> Yeah, for the basics, I'd agree :)
16:36 <joda_bot> I would not want to translate deep documentation
16:37 <joda_bot> just FAQ and a basic tutorial
16:37 <z-man> Yea, that's OK.
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, ummm, the wiki's supposed to provide deep documentation
16:37  * wrtlprnft laughts at iF
16:37 <wrtlprnft> his fault he never gives out sources
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> also, consider ways to make the documentation in the main module and export it to the wiki.  there's a certain amount of documentation we probably need to keep there and push it to the wiki instead of vice-versa
16:37 <z-man> Well, now we have a close example we can point others who don't give out sources to.
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> basic game manual, stuff people *need* to have to run the game
16:38 <z-man> Hmm, sounds good.
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> when we have an army of translators (sometime after the gettext thing, I bet), we'll make keeping *that* manual up to date part of the job :)
16:39 <z-man> It'll need to get a lot smaller, then :)
16:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: z-man: What's iF's problem ?
16:40 <z-man> He lost armabell's source code.
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> his mommy never taught him how to share and share alike
16:40  * joda_bot infected by a virus again ?
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> hard drive failure, wasn't it?
16:40  * joda_bot thinks if's pc is infected by a virus again :-)
16:40 <joda_bot> oh :-(
16:41 <z-man> again?
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> of course, if he'd have released the source for armabell, there'd be ~20 people that would have the latest version in a tarball waiting for him to pick it up
16:41 <joda_bot> hehe, the first gll got killed by the php virus
16:41 <joda_bot> (no backup AFAIK)
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> #f
16:41 <armabot> Random Fortune:  BOFH Excuse #19: || floating point processor overflow
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> awww, no Linus saying something about backups and mirrors?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> here's the question of the day, then I'm working this next problem:
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> Why do Windows users and developers consistently and repeatedly accept being treated like second-class citizens?  Even by open source projects that make special build modules for Windows sources that they don't make for any other group of users?
16:44 <joda_bot> How about this http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Export ?
16:44 <z-man> Didn't know they accepted it :)
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> the ones that fight back are generally called Linux users :)
16:46 <z-man> yarr.
16:47 <z-man> wrtlprnft: DONTDOIT is a very stupid name for a macro you have to define to use raw OpenGL functions.
16:47 <z-man> wrtlprnft: does armabot ignore Luke also into the other direction?
16:47 <z-man> #notes
16:47 <armabot> z-man: I currently have notes waiting for a*, Luke-Jr, and phil.
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> apparently yes
16:47 <z-man> apparently :)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> and DONTDOIT was made by Jonathan :)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> afaik
16:48 <z-man> nono, that's my abomination.
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> but I think he said it was made by z-man
16:49 <z-man> Maybe rename it to ALLOW_RAW_OPENGL or get rid of it entirely, it was an ill fated attempt to enforce 3D API independence.
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I'm figuring out the volume on the shell of an acorn!  neat!
16:51 <joda_bot> Did anyone ever see a list of all armagetronad dependencies ?
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm too sleepy to work this problem
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> I'll take a patch that lets Luke receive armabot messages
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> better, I'll take a better set of manners :)
16:53 <wrtlprnft> z-man: armabot doesn't ignore him in the other direction
16:53 <wrtlprnft> i think if you say #tell Luke-Jr blah it still arrives
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?
16:53 <z-man> #notes Luke-Jr
16:53 <armabot> z-man: Sent 1 week, 3 days, 2 hours, and 14 minutes ago: <z-man> Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
16:53 <wrtlprnft> but since it ignores everything says notes never get delivered
16:54 <z-man> definitely got ignored.
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> a test
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> #message z-man you should receive this one
16:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:54 <wrtlprnft> it delivers notes to the target when it speaks, right?
16:54 <z-man> test
16:54 <z-man> right
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> #ignore add z-man
16:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: The command "ignore add" is available in the Admin and Channel plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "ignore add".
16:54 <z-man> hey
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore add z-man
16:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
16:54 <wrtlprnft> but, if armabot ignores Luke-Jr, it will never deliver them
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> yes I do
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore add z-man
16:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:55 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't know he spoke
16:55 <wrtlprnft> #m z-man test
16:55 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> #message z-man another test, you should get this one too
16:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:55 <z-man> #later tell Lucifer_arma stop that!
16:55 <z-man> #night
16:55 <wrtlprnft> he won't get them
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> did you get the messages?
16:55  * z-man feels so alone without armabot
16:55 <wrtlprnft> #notes z-man 
16:55 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent just now: <wrtlprnft> test and Sent just now: <Lucifer_arma> another test, you should get this one too
16:55 <z-man> no, no message
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore
16:55 <armabot> blah
16:55 <wrtlprnft> #tell z-man test
16:55 <wrtlprnft> that one?
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> #help admin ignore
16:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: There is no command "admin ignore".
16:56 <z-man> bla
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> #help ignore
16:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (ignore requires no arguments) -- Does nothing. Useful sometimes for sequencing commands when you don't care about their non-error return values.
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> #list admin
16:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: capability add, capability remove, channels, ignore add, ignore list, ignore remove, join, nick, and part
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore remove z-man
16:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:56 <z-man> yes, got wrtls
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> duh
16:56 <z-man> got it, too.
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> so you got them after she stopped ignoring you?
16:56 <z-man> yes.
16:57 <z-man> [23:54] <armabot> Sent just now: <Lucifer_arma> you should receive this one
16:57 <z-man> [23:56] <armabot> wrtlprnft wants me to tell you: test
16:57 <z-man> [23:56] <armabot> Sent just now: <wrtlprnft> test
16:57 <z-man> [23:56] <armabot> Sent just now: <Lucifer_arma> another test, you should get this one too
16:57 <z-man> that's the ones I got.
16:57 <wrtlprnft> z-man: thanks for the DONTDOIT info
16:58 <z-man> nvm
16:58 <wrtlprnft> i was forced to put it into a header file, so probably a lot of things won't be affected by it anymore
16:58 <z-man> No problem.
16:58 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> whats the point in restricting sources from using glTextureMode?
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> so basically, Luke gets ignored by armabot whenever he and I have one of our spats and I decide to ignore him, and his response is to use #echo to try to irritate me
16:59 <wrtlprnft> no, glMatrixMode
16:59 <wrtlprnft> whatever the name is
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> so if I take him off the ignore list, anybody want to take bets on how long it will be before he's back in the doghouse with armabot?
17:00 <z-man> Does he succeed irritating you? That would surprise me.
17:00 <wrtlprnft> five bucks on two days
17:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I don't mind the restriction, because if we start using GL all over the place, using a different render engine will be more difficult
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> he succeeds in irritating me the same way my 5-year old succeeds in irritating me.
17:00 <wrtlprnft> FTGL needs those functions
17:01 <wrtlprnft> and with everything but opengl we'll need another font engine
17:01 <z-man> wrtlprnft: noooo problem. Allow them all.
17:01 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: If we use a strict render back end , we can use ogre and ogre might use directx to render for example ... or a cluster with renderman
17:01 <z-man> The original intention was to wrap all OpenGL calls into rRenderer calls for AIP independence.
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> don't the other renderers we've looked at use ftgl anyway?  or at least provide fonts?
17:01 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: DOS your server?
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: no, that's my 2 year old :)
17:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> my 5 year old is the one that says shit like "An invisible hand behind my hand hit my sister, and my hand was stuck in between"
17:02 <z-man> hehe.
17:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
17:04 <Luke-Jr> Luci's server runs DOS?
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> he's also the one where I say "Be quiet, I'm trying to listen for something", he immediately says "Ok, I'm being quiet" and proceeds to update me on his quiet status
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> DOS = denial of service...
17:04 <Luke-Jr> no, that's DoS =p
17:05 <wrtlprnft> dDoS?
17:05  * Lucifer_arma demonstrates he has patience
17:05 <Luke-Jr> DDoS is distributed DoS =p
17:05  * wrtlprnft is quiet
17:05  * wrtlprnft is still quiet
17:05  * Luke-Jr is quieter
17:05  * Luke-Jr is yet quieter
17:05  * wrtlprnft is more quiet than Lucifer_arma 
17:05  * wrtlprnft is more quiet than Luke-Jr 
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> #ingore add wrtlprnft
17:05 <wrtlprnft> heh
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> :)
17:05  * Luke-Jr is quite quiet still
17:06 <wrtlprnft> #ignoreme
17:06 <armabot> [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
17:06 <wrtlprnft> :P
17:06  * n54 has been more quiet than any of you ^^
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> shut up n54
17:06  * Luke-Jr thinks not
17:07 <n54> lol
17:07 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: mommy, Luke-Jr hates me!
17:07  * wrtlprnft cries
17:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
17:08 <wrtlprnft> or daddy i guess
17:10 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: hi mommy
17:10 <wrtlprnft> g2g kindergarden ;)
17:12 -!- MamaBear [n=cora-jr@] has joined #armagetron
17:12 <wrtlprnft> someone send me a message please
17:12 <wrtlprnft> fast
17:12 <wrtlprnft> before armabot stops ignoring me
17:12 <MamaBear> Lucifer, why do you hate TV?
17:13 <wrtlprnft> 2 minutes left to send me a message...
17:13 <Luke-Jr> #message wrtlprnft foo
17:13 <Luke-Jr> #message wrtlprnft bar
17:13 <wrtlprnft> aww
17:13 <wrtlprnft> someone else i guess
17:14 <z-man> #message wrtlprnft foobar
17:14 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
17:14 <wrtlprnft> test
17:14 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:14 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:14 <wrtlprnft> didn't get it
17:14 <wrtlprnft> so it does totally ignore me, too
17:15 <Luke-Jr> With Regard To Linear PRiNter FonTs...
17:15 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:15 <Luke-Jr> =p
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: any good library functions for converting between utf-8 and utf-16
17:15 <wrtlprnft> if not I'll make my own
17:15 <Luke-Jr> shrug
17:16 <Luke-Jr> easy to write
17:16 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:16 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:16 <z-man> Hehe, the new cycle_width code is working :) Didn't have to add much since the last attempt.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:16 <MamaBear> my baby is rolling all around on the floor
17:16 <armabot> Random Fortune:  I distinctly remember forgetting that. -Clara Barton
17:16 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:16 <z-man> Who shall we test it with?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> yay armabot likes me again!
17:16 <Luke-Jr> z-man: how can I make IntersectWith handle 3D?
17:16 <z-man> Not at all?
17:16 <Luke-Jr> >:O
17:17 <z-man> IntersectWith is a eEdge function, right?
17:17 <Luke-Jr>     REAL z1=(    Point()->z + (    Point()->z -     other->Point()->z) *     Ratio(ret));
17:17 <Luke-Jr>     REAL z2=(e2->Point()->z + (e2->Point()->z - e2->other->Point()->z) * e2->Ratio(ret));
17:17 <Luke-Jr>     v = z1-z2;
17:17 <Luke-Jr>     if (v < -1 || v > 1) return NULL;
17:17 <wrtlprnft> z-man: what happens if two finite-width cycles hit each other from the front?
17:17 <z-man> they pass by each other.
17:17 <z-man> It just gets active when you enter a tunnel
17:17 <wrtlprnft> isn't that what you wanted to prevent?
17:17 <z-man> no
17:17 <wrtlprnft> oh, ok
17:18 <wrtlprnft> what about a tunnel of two wall ends?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> like that: ------> =========
17:18 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:18 <wrtlprnft> ther --- is your wall
17:18 <Luke-Jr> ============---------
17:18 <z-man> Once you're inside, you're dead.
17:18 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
17:18 <z-man> I'll make it so that you can pass really short tunnels, probably
17:19  * wrtlprnft loves ascii art
17:19 <wrtlprnft> double binding: ||||||||||||
17:19 <z-man> and I still don't know how NOT to kill the poor inner wingen on the fortress startup :)
17:19 <z-man> Currently, they'd get crushed by the outer grinders.
17:19 <Luke-Jr> z-man: good
17:19 <wrtlprnft> oktatron: /Z_|\SV\>
17:19 <Luke-Jr> fortress grinding is lame
17:20 <Luke-Jr> let people come up w/ something original
17:20 <z-man> They will once the "boost on break" feature is in :)
17:20 <wrtlprnft> you'll be able to count the seconds it takes until bugfarm fortress is empty if you make startup grinding impossible
17:20 <z-man> (But I guess i'll limit the setting to only work with enemy walls at first)
17:21 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: Bugfarm hasn't claimed its goal as fun
17:21 <Luke-Jr> it's for testing
17:21 <z-man> Well, they won't notice the change until they're more than three on a team :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: well, but bugfarm needs to be some fun to make people play :P
17:21 <z-man> Luke-Jr is partly right, occasionally, I reserve the right to be cruel to the players there.
17:22  * wrtlprnft really would like a hack to gGame to replace the winzone by multiple death zones
17:22 <z-man> But in the case of the classic startup, I guess that would go to far. Got to find a solution.
17:22 <wrtlprnft> so every few seconds a new deathzone pops up
17:23 <z-man> I can just make the server forget it created one in the first place :)
17:23  * z-man goes checking
17:23 <Luke-Jr> z-man: aww, help me w/ 3D IntersectWith =p
17:23 <wrtlprnft> that would be fun, methinks
17:24 <z-man> Luke-Jr: you can't intersect two LINES in 3d reliably, you know?
17:24 <wrtlprnft> two 3d lines never intersect if they are computed with floats
17:24 <Luke-Jr> z-man: walls have height
17:24 <z-man> Perhaps it would help if you tell us what you're trying to do?
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> TV MAKES YOU STPUTID!
17:24 <wrtlprnft> or never RELIABLY intersect
17:24 <Luke-Jr> z-man: if walls don't collide, don't crash =p
17:25 <Luke-Jr> eg, if I'm driving over a wall, I shouldn't crash into it
17:25 <z-man> We have that.
17:25 <z-man> oh dear.
17:25  * Lucifer_arma once computed how many years of his life have been spent watching commercials on tv
17:25 <MamaBear> How many?
17:26 <wrtlprnft> well
17:26 <wrtlprnft> if you watch 3 hours of TV a day
17:26 <wrtlprnft> 30% is commercials
17:26 <wrtlprnft> that makes
17:26 <wrtlprnft> #g 3*.3
17:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 3 * .3 = 0.9
17:26 <wrtlprnft> almiost one hour a day
17:26 <wrtlprnft> #g 0.9*355.25
17:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0.9 * 355.25 = 319.72500
17:26 <wrtlprnft> 319.7 hours per year
17:27 <z-man> #g makes you lazy :)
17:27 <armabot> z-man: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:27 <Luke-Jr> shouldn't that be 365.25?
17:27 <wrtlprnft> #g 0.9*365.25
17:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0.9 * 365.25 = 328.72500
17:27 <wrtlprnft> whatever
17:27 <wrtlprnft> actually it's not .25
17:27 <Luke-Jr> .24
17:27 <wrtlprnft> #g 0.9*365.24
17:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0.9 * 365.24 = 328.71600
17:27 <wrtlprnft> nitpicking...
17:27 <wrtlprnft> #g 70*328.716
17:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 70 * 328.71600 = 23,010.12
17:27 <MamaBear> If he already computed it, why can't he tell me?
17:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 23,010.12/24
17:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 23,010.12 / 24 = 958.75500
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> because I'm watching Wargames
17:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 23,010.12/24/365.24
17:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (23,010.12 / 24) / 365.24 = 2.62500
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> and it was something like 2 years
17:28 <wrtlprnft> 2.6 years!
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> 2 continuous years, not 2 years of practical life, that number was a bit higher
17:29 <wrtlprnft> what a waste ;)
17:29 <wrtlprnft> let's find out how long the average windows user will watch bluescreens :P
17:30 <z-man> Aw crap, the winzone spawning code is called every frame :)
17:30  * wrtlprnft has a nice bluescreen z-shirt :P
17:31 <wrtlprnft> that's a lot of winzones?
17:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man: reset the counter as well?
17:31 <z-man> There is no counter. Only a flag.
17:31 <wrtlprnft> like, the time of last death
17:31 <MamaBear> Are the commercials the only reason you hate it?
17:31 <wrtlprnft> set it to the time the killzone gets spawned
17:32 <z-man> It's not a counter, unfortunately.
17:32 <wrtlprnft> well, most stuff on american TV is crap :P
17:32 <z-man> It gets recalculated from the stored individual death times.
17:32 <z-man> most stuff in bookstores is crap, too :)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> it gets calculated every frame?
17:32 <wrtlprnft> what a waste
17:32 <z-man> yep.
17:33 <z-man> Maybe we should stagger it to once a second.
17:33 <MamaBear> I'm just curious because I'm Catholic and I hate TV, thinking most of the content is from the devil, so I was intrigued to hear that a satanist hates TV too.
17:33 <Luke-Jr> z-man: 3D IntersectWith? :/
17:33 <wrtlprnft> o_O
17:33 <z-man> Luke-Jr: too tired, wrong medium. Bring it to the Forum.
17:34  * wrtlprnft slowly gets to think Lucifer_arma isn't too wrong with his 5-year old comparison
17:34 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --with "3D IntersectWith" --nolimit
17:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [17:33:35] <Luke-Jr> z-man: 3D IntersectWith? :/ and [17:23:51] <Luke-Jr> z-man: aww, help me w/ 3D IntersectWith =p
17:34 <wrtlprnft> uh, isn't armabot ignoring luke?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> #m Luke-Jr blah
17:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'd probably like tv more without all the jesus-loving that's on it
17:35 <Luke-Jr> TV is void of any Jesus-loving
17:35 <Lucifer_arma> 7th heaven?
17:35 <Luke-Jr> closest thing is demons-that-pretend-to-be-Jesus loving
17:36 <MamaBear> Are you looking forward to going to hell?
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the british have this neat show about a woman priest who thinks gays should be able to get married
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> that show's pretty cool
17:36 <wrtlprnft> american's can't just have british shows on their TV :P
17:36 <Lucifer_arma> of course I'm looking forward to going to hell.  Luke-Jr won't be there, and I'll be happy.
17:36 <wrtlprnft> they have to copy it, and a cheap copy, too, if possible
17:36 <Luke-Jr> perverts can get married-- to people of the opposite sex, of course
17:37 <wrtlprnft> s/'//
17:37 <Lucifer_arma> all my favorite people will be in hell, and none of the people I don't like
17:37 <Luke-Jr> screaming in agony, but sure
17:37 <MamaBear> You don't have to live with the guy.
17:38  * Lucifer_arma doesn't believe the liar God's FUD about hell
17:38  * Lucifer_arma doesn't trust genocial maniacs, in general, as a rule.
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> *genocidal
17:39 <Luke-Jr> The Truth does not lie
17:39 <Luke-Jr> MODs are cool
17:39 <n54> what do you get if you take infinite stupidity and multiply it by 6 billion? ^^
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> you noticed today's date, right?  :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I don't know just yet, but maybe next semester....
17:40 <n54> ...you get the human species
17:41 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: 2006-06-06
17:41 <Luke-Jr> by your calendar
17:41 <Lucifer_arma> anybody here ever argue with people that 3.5" floppy disks weren't hard disks?
17:41 <Luke-Jr> b2e-b0 by my calendar
17:41 <GodTodd> yep
17:41 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
17:41 <n54> heh someone says floppies were hard disks?
17:41 <Luke-Jr> what idiot calls a floppy a HD?
17:41 <Lucifer_arma> what do you know about hell's calendar?  Besides whatever bs your idiot hash-smoking prophet told you?
17:42 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, you use the gregorian calendar
17:43  * z-man knows when to keep out of a conversation.
17:43 <z-man> #night
17:43 <armabot> Good night z-man!
17:43 <n54> night z-man (you've escaped the madness!!!)
17:44 <z-man> Weren't 3.5 floppies called "Flexi Disks"?
17:44 <n54> not that I've noticed no
17:44 <n54> doesn't mean the haven't been called that of course :)
17:44 <n54> they*
17:44 <z-man> I've heard the term tossed around. Maybe a "Denglish" thing.
17:44 <n54> perhaps ^^
17:45 <Luke-Jr> like equeals?
17:45 <n54> makes sense though compared to real floppies
17:45 <z-man> We call cell phones "handies", after all.
17:45 <n54> I know, it's charming ^^
17:45 <Luke-Jr> or was equeals a typo?
17:47  * n54 goes to find out when the world championship starts
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, they have the hard case, or at least hard compared to 5.25" floppies, so people said they were hard disks, different from floppies
17:51  * Lucifer_arma is away: dinner
17:51 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
17:51 <GodTodd> actually had a comp literacy teacher that pulled both apart for visual demonstration of why they were both called floppies
17:56  * n54 loves cracking up floppies and exposing their innards...
17:57 <n54> 6 parts, 8 if you count the metal on both sides of the actual disk
17:57 <Luke-Jr> I get 5 max... O.o
17:58 <Luke-Jr> unless you're counting the spring and stuff
17:58 <n54> you _must_ count the spring :)
17:58 <Luke-Jr> what if my disk lacks a spring?
17:58 <n54> without a spring the whole setup is useless ^^
17:58 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:58 <MamaBear> there are already gay priests anyway in the new church
17:58 <GodTodd> the spring that makes the cover snap back?
17:58 <Luke-Jr> floppies don't *need* a sheath
17:58 <n54> yup GodTodd
17:59  * wrtlprnft vaguely remembers floopies
17:59  * wrtlprnft hasn't used one in two years
17:59 <GodTodd> have plenty of floppies that work fine without that spring
17:59 <n54> yes but there's no point to having the encasing without the spring
17:59 <wrtlprnft> you can move it manually :P
17:59 <wrtlprnft> and fix it with tape
17:59 <Luke-Jr> ...
18:00 <Luke-Jr> tape won't fix it
18:00 <wrtlprnft> or hold it in place with a magnet :D
18:00 <GodTodd> doesn't make 'the whole setup useless' tho
18:00 <GodTodd> :P
18:00 <Luke-Jr> just remove the hole cover
18:00 <n54> as far as protecting the actual disk is concerned it pretty much does
18:00  * wrtlprnft has seen people using magnets to pin their floopies to their fridge
18:00 <Luke-Jr> ...
18:00 <GodTodd> nah...cover it manually for transport....then take the cover off for use :D
18:01 <n54> lol GodTodd ^^
18:01 <wrtlprnft> and then they wonder why they don't work
18:01 <Luke-Jr> just store data on flash gameboy cartridges =p
18:01 <GodTodd> magnets are bad for floppies??
18:01 <GodTodd> :/
18:01 <wrtlprnft> uh, if they come in contact, yes
18:02 <Luke-Jr> they don't need contact...
18:02 <wrtlprnft> close to each other
18:02 <GodTodd> nope they don't
18:02 <Luke-Jr> just need to get in the magnetic field
18:02 <GodTodd> airport security can ruin them
18:02 <wrtlprnft> keep your floppies away from the earth's magnetic field!
18:03 <wrtlprnft> i'd say the field has to be strong enough :P
18:03 <Luke-Jr> airport security is a joke
18:03 <GodTodd> all it takes for floppies is enough trips under the metal detectors
18:04 <Luke-Jr> bet I could easily get past them smuggling confidential info if I wanted to
18:04 <Luke-Jr> seriously, just write it to a gameboy cartridge and they'd probably ignore it
18:04 <wrtlprnft> you can take a CD-ROM with a photo of a gun with you :P
18:04 <Luke-Jr> =p
18:04 <wrtlprnft> you can take a whole notebook with you...
18:05 <wrtlprnft> so there's lots of pictures of guns :P
18:05 <wrtlprnft> use a printer and print them out
18:05 <Luke-Jr> take a plastic gun with you
18:05 <Luke-Jr> with bio ammu
18:05 <Luke-Jr> ammo*
18:06 <wrtlprnft> bio ammu?
18:06 <GodTodd> why take the trouble of writing it to anything other than your laptop? the confidential info i mean
18:06 <wrtlprnft> you mean methane?
18:06 <Luke-Jr> shrug
18:06 <Luke-Jr> I mean the Cure =p
18:06  * wrtlprnft farts bio ammu
18:07 <wrtlprnft> use cherry cores as bullets
18:07 <wrtlprnft> or however you call those hard things in cherries
18:07 <wrtlprnft> maybe seeds, whatever it is in english :P
18:07 <wrtlprnft> cherri pits!
18:08 <wrtlprnft> *cherry pits
18:11 <wrtlprnft> how come X11 is taking 476MB of my RAM?
18:11 <wrtlprnft> that's half of it!
18:12 <wrtlprnft> +400MB opera
18:12 <wrtlprnft> *300MB
18:12 <wrtlprnft> +100MB mysql
18:12 <wrtlprnft> wow
18:20  * madmax|pt is back (gone 02:10:09)
18:29 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #math base
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (math base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>) -- Converts <number> from base <fromBase> to base <toBase>. If <toBase> is left out, it converts to decimal.
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #math base 10 8 12
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 14
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #math base 10 8 13
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 15
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #math base 10 8 14
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 16
18:36 <n54> ... ^^
18:36 <wrtlprnft> we should rename this channel to #calculator
18:37 <n54> no
18:37 <n54> we would attract sticky geeks with t1's or whatever if we did ^^
18:38 <n54> like many of them, a googolplex or something
18:38 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:38 <n54> :)
18:39 <wrtlprnft> ok, either my utf-16 function is flawed or FTGL doesn't like me
18:39 <n54> and we wouldn't bea aple to speak for all the talk of various simplex and what if any use fourth-dimensional geometry has, and the merits of other arcana
18:39 <n54> be able*
18:40 <n54> why do you want to mess with utf-16?
18:40 <n54> just choose either utf-8 or utf-16 and stick with it?
18:40 <n54> *just asking*
18:41 <wrtlprnft> utf-16 sucks for networking
18:41 <wrtlprnft> but ftgl only accepts utf-16
18:45 <n54> ok
18:47 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 8 110
18:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 6
18:47 <n54> iirc for most stuff (unless it's java) you can just chop utf-16 in two
18:47 <wrtlprnft> #base 8 2 6
18:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 110
18:47 <n54> and ditch the last part
18:47 <n54> + some minor things
18:48 <wrtlprnft> #base 16 2 1f
18:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 11111
18:48 <n54> since I'm probably very wrong I should go look it up ^^
18:48 <wrtlprnft> #base 16 2 3f
18:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 111111
18:49  * wrtlprnft is studying wikipedia right now
18:50 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 8 1110
18:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 16
18:51 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 8 11110
18:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 36
18:51  * wrtlprnft loves binary O_o
18:51 <n54> wrtlprnft: go to the source http://www.unicode.org/
18:52 <wrtlprnft> wikipedia is more readable, i guess
18:52 <wrtlprnft> and i assume it's right
18:55 <n54> ?3.9 here http://www.unicode.org/faq/specifications.html is a pdf that might answer all your questions much more directly and appropriately than wikipedia (haven't read it)
18:55 <n54> "Unicode Encoding Forms: UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32 conversion and validation                      ? 3.9"
18:58 <wrtlprnft> thanks, although i think i almost got it
18:58 <n54> ok :)
18:58 <wrtlprnft> it just drops the last char, but it converts fine
18:58 <n54> yes, I was confusing it all with utf-16 and utf-32 earlier
18:59 <n54> + some more too
18:59 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 16 111
18:59 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 7
19:00 <wrtlprnft> so, now what does it do with the last char?
19:02 <n54> page 23 on the mentioned pdf from the link I gave has a nice table
19:03 <n54> 0111
19:03 <n54> or 07h more appropriately
19:03 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:03 <wrtlprnft> wikipedia has that, too, with colors
19:03 <n54> :) happy if I can help (I rarely do) ^^
19:04 <n54> if I have been of help* am*
19:04 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:05 <n54> :)
19:05 <wrtlprnft> I think i'd better convert before i render
19:05 <wrtlprnft> much easier to deal with utf-16 than -8
19:05 <wrtlprnft> for word braking etc
19:05 <wrtlprnft> and i have to convert it at some point in time, anyways ;)
19:05 <n54> ok, yes probably
19:06 <n54> or simply go utf-16 locally for everything and just break it into utf-8 for networking? not sure
19:06 <wrtlprnft> grr
19:07 <wrtlprnft> screw tString::const_iterator
19:07 <wrtlprnft> char const * does the job as well :P
--- Log opened Tue Jun 06 19:11:59 2006
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19:13 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
19:13 <wrtlprnft> my graphic driver really sucks...
19:19 <GodTodd> my vacuum really sucks
19:20 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:23 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man* If we're bound to utf-16 for the font anyways, any reason not to switch the whole game except networking code to utf-16? That should save us lots of expensive conversations
19:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:25 <n54> graphics drivers... vacuum cleaners... huh obviously you guys haen't seen my math XD
19:25 <n54> haven't*
19:26 <wrtlprnft> n54: math calc 1 + 1
19:26 <wrtlprnft> armabot: math calc 1 + 1
19:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2
19:27 <wrtlprnft> looks like armabot is faster than n54 :D
19:27 <n54> lol
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> armabot: math calc 2*8/2
19:27 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 8
19:27 <n54> not fair ;_; j/k
19:27 <GodTodd> 2+2==5, for very large values of 2
19:27 <GodTodd> ;)
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> armabot: math calc 2.0*8.0/2.0
19:27 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 8
19:27 <n54> true GodTodd
19:27 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 2/3
19:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0.666666666667
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> armabot: math calc 2.0*1/3*3
19:27 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 2
19:27 <LuciEatsPeople> armabot: math calc 2.0*1/3
19:27 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: 0.666666666667
19:28 <LuciEatsPeople> armabot: math calc sqrt(2.0*1/3^2)
19:28 <armabot> LuciEatsPeople: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
19:28 <LuciEatsPeople> there's a reason I use google instead
19:28 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1
19:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 1
19:28 <wrtlprnft> really?
19:28 <n54> 8+8=4 :) (non-linear/circular 12)
19:29 <wrtlprnft> 8+8=4 (mod 12)
19:29 <n54> :)
19:29 <wrtlprnft> #armabot are you sure your last calculation is correct?
19:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Unlikely.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> ah
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19:52 <LuciEatsPeople> my robot vacuum cleaner sucks
19:53 <n54> it's meant to :P
20:16 <Luke-Jr> LuciEatsPeople: the one you built?
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20:28 <wrtlprnft> LuciEatsPeople: it does
20:28 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> you didn't get it reprogrammed?
20:28 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:40 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
20:40  * Lucifer_arma is back.
20:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't reprogram the robot yet, I just determined that I could, that it would cost $60 to start, that I didn't have $60, and moved on
20:41 <wrtlprnft> better put that time on arma :P
20:46 <wrtlprnft> lol @ converting armabell to python
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> :)
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: what's the name of the distribution you use on your zaurus (or whatever the fuck it is)?
21:05 <n54> might as well as "mamabear" (dug at the ip?)
21:05 <n54> ask*
21:06 <n54> "This page describes some technical issues regarding the Open Peering peering accelerator service at AMS-IX." run at Science Park Watergraafsmeer which is the owner of
21:07 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AF81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <n54> not in kansas any more ;P
21:12 <n54> (city)
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21:20 <n54> "ingen" means nobody in norwegian ^^
22:07 <wrtlprnft> http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/KnownCheats
22:07 <wrtlprnft> !
22:08 <wrtlprnft> what the heck, the client can do anything it likes? What sucky programming
22:08 <n54> huh
22:08 <wrtlprnft> fly without wings. isn't the server supposed to keep track of that?
22:09  * n54 wonders what the purpose of "shoot teammates without blowing them up" would be.... unless friendly fire is allowed I guess
22:10 <wrtlprnft> well
22:10 <wrtlprnft> you can shoot them by accident, happens quite often
22:10 <n54> ok
22:10 <n54> still yeah very sucky to have the client control the game rather than the server
22:11 <wrtlprnft> I mean, it's hard to prevent cheats like free camera, better map etc...
22:11 <wrtlprnft> but to have the whole engine on the client?
22:11 <n54> insanity :)
22:12 <n54> the opposite is the best; everything on the server; input and output on the client (ref. server nethack games)
22:12 <wrtlprnft> which is what arma does
22:12 <n54> as much as it can i guess
22:12 <wrtlprnft> that means, you can hack your client to go through walls, and it will display fine on your client
22:13 <wrtlprnft> but the server will think differently and kill you
22:13 <n54> yup
22:13 <wrtlprnft> exept if it's hacked itself, of course
22:13 <n54> mm
22:13 <wrtlprnft> but then it's the admin's fault
22:13 <n54> yup
22:15 <wrtlprnft> arma is of waaay better, wd z-man!
22:15 <n54> yay! ^^
22:15 <wrtlprnft> btw when i just played there was someone named zman
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but i guess that was someone else
22:16 <n54> no idea but since it's 0515 over here I think you're right ^^ (unless he has the day off tomorrow or something)
22:20 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:21 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, you get autokicked for having 300ms lag
22:21 <n54> I know germany has long summer vacations in the schools but it starts fairly late doesn't it?
22:21 <n54> in bz?
22:21 <wrtlprnft> how lame is that? the lag should be your problem, and if you manage to play with it, why not?
22:21 <wrtlprnft> yes
22:21 <n54> yeah
22:21 <wrtlprnft> n54: it starts at different times in different parts
22:22 <n54> oh, didn't know that
22:22 <wrtlprnft> to reduce traffic
22:22 <n54> smart
22:23 <n54> different weeks or just a few days?
22:23 <wrtlprnft> which means that if you live in munich and have relatives in flensburg you can only visit them for a week or so
22:23 <wrtlprnft> assuming they go to school
22:23 <n54> mm yeah I can see the drawback there, nothing is perfect :|
22:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man's start on june 26
22:23 <wrtlprnft> mine start on july 31
22:24 <n54> ah ok
22:24 <n54> that's a pretty big difference
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> yay, writer's block finally cleared, I just wrote my t2 article :)
22:24 <n54> it's only for summer right?
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> I'll edit it tomorrow and send it in.  :)
22:24 <wrtlprnft> n54: yes
22:24 <n54> :)
22:24 <n54> ok
22:24 <wrtlprnft> you can't shift christmas around :P
22:24 <n54> :)
22:24 <n54> unless you have like extra long vacations ;) hehe
22:25 <wrtlprnft> nah, just two weeks
22:25 <wrtlprnft> usually chistmas to jan 6
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: are you back in germany, then?
22:25 <wrtlprnft> sometimes more, ie if jan 6 is thursday you usually get friday off as well
22:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: not yet
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> nah, can't be, you're leaving for school in the morning just like I am
22:25 <n54> ok about 17th-20-th to about 7th (or 17th if you're at uni) here
22:25 <wrtlprnft> i'm going on june 30
22:26 <n54> you've seen another part of the world some distance away - always a good thing ^^
22:26 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:26 <wrtlprnft> and the people here :)
22:27 <n54> yup, actually lived there
22:27 <wrtlprnft> different than if you go on skiing vacation or something
22:27 <n54> if funds wasn't a problem I think every human should get that opportunity
22:27 <n54> absolutely
22:27 <wrtlprnft> biggest cost factor are the schools here :(
22:27 <n54> :)
22:28 <wrtlprnft> they charge LOTS of money
22:28 <wrtlprnft> that probably means I'll be busy in two weeks or so
22:29 <n54> working? :)
22:29 <wrtlprnft> no, just organizing
22:29 <n54> ok
22:29 <wrtlprnft> and there's my birthday at some day, too
22:29 <wrtlprnft> haven't decided yet what day it will be
22:30 <wrtlprnft> i was born in the morning of june 29, but that's the evening of june 28 here
22:30 <n54> how long have you been over there? I remember having to move back after two years was a real drag, amazing how much stuff one accreates even if a poor student *still misses text-books I used*
22:30 <n54> hehe
22:30 <wrtlprnft> like 10 months
22:31 <n54> ah that hopefully won't be as bad
22:31 <wrtlprnft> the school term - summer holidays
22:31 <wrtlprnft> - = minus
22:31 <n54> ok :)
22:31 <wrtlprnft> which means i'm making a bad deal
22:31 <n54> yeah I remember you complained about getting fewer holidays ;)
22:31 <wrtlprnft> our summer holidays are shorter, but we have lots of vacation during the year
22:32  * wrtlprnft is repeating himself
22:32  * wrtlprnft is repeating himself
22:32  * wrtlprnft is repeating himself
22:32 <n54> :)
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> SHUT THE FUCK UP
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:32 <n54> lol
22:32 <wrtlprnft> heh
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> I need to go to bed before I become the Integrator
22:33 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:33 <wrtlprnft> me too
22:33 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:33 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> so, if you have your birthday on the 29th, you can sleep off the flight back (you're flying, right?) courtesy of your hangover, but you have very little last minute time for packing
22:33  * wrtlprnft is going by boat of course j/k
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> but if you have your birthday on the 28th, your hangover's gone, but you have an extra day for last-minute packing
22:34 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:34  * wrtlprnft isn't happy about the prospect of jet lag again :(
22:34 <wrtlprnft> and this one will be worse
22:34 <wrtlprnft> i fly off in the morning and arrive in the morning
22:34 <n54> yeah and discovering how heavy paper is *nearly broke his back trying to get most of the paper home without paying tons and tons of money*
22:34  * Lucifer_arma lives in a constant state of jet lag
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> which is why I need to go to bed, heh
22:35 <n54> weird - I' about to go sleep too
22:35 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i've got lotsa books here i need to get home somehow
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> n54 also lives in a constant state of jet lag, I've noticed
22:35 <wrtlprnft> the school library sucks, i can't easily get books from the public one, so i end off buying them
22:35 <n54> see? bet you didn't think of that before I mentioned it ^^ (save up and ship by boat mail)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, I can carry something like 20 books in my pocket....
22:36 <n54> yeah not jet lag though, for me it's snail lag :)
22:36 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: airport security will be happy :P
22:36 <n54> lol
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, you're in Canada, they don't have any airport security...
22:37 <n54> just wear your nerd glasses and everything will be fine and they'll have to use all their energy to stop snickering ^^
22:37  * Lucifer_arma wonders if there are any Genuine Canadians here to take offense at that comment of his
22:37 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well, compared to the crazy americans, no
22:37 <n54> "Oh no, here comes another bookworm again with 20 kilos overweight luggage because of books" "hehe"
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> "Yeah, look at that dork.  Where do you think he put his laptop?"
22:38 <n54> :)
22:38 <wrtlprnft> we don't have a country hating us that much that they fly planes into buildings
22:38 <wrtlprnft> (we = canada)
22:38 <n54> don't tempt fate wrtlprnft
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, as long as canada keeps insisting on being US Lite, they're destined to acquire such enemies
22:39  * n54 hints at recent canadian happenings
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> hell, maybe those guys hit the twin towers because they forgot where Montreal is?
22:39  * wrtlprnft just goes to bed, not that interested in such a discussion
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they stopped to ask for directions?
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok, 'night
22:39 <n54> sleep well ^^
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> a little tronning before bed, I think
22:41 <n54> I need to log of now or I'll never get to drag myself to bed :) cya all
22:41 <n54> off*
22:42 <n54> *zap* *poof*
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Log from 2006-06-07:
--- Day changed Wed Jun 07 2006
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00:57 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I custom build my own fork of OpenEmbedded
00:58 <Luke-Jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/oz-ljr
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07:50 <wrtlprnft> I love the finite cycle width thing :)
07:52 <spidey> no....
07:52 <wrtlprnft> ends double grinding AND coming down centre
07:52 <spidey> i die when i try to fit through a 2.3 grind
07:52  * wrtlprnft wonders why people hate holes, but instantly cry if they get stripped of the fast coming-down-centre victory, which is at least equeally cheap.
07:52 <spidey> well,when i touch a wall and die
07:53 <wrtlprnft> you don't
07:53 <spidey> i watched route try to go through a VISIBLE gap on a 800x600 res
07:53 <spidey> and exploded
07:53 <wrtlprnft> you die if you go through something you're not supposed to go through
07:53 <wrtlprnft> the cyce width is 1/20 of a box on the screen
07:53 <spidey> i die if i try to go through a gap that i can clearly see, that's enough for me to know :)
07:53 <wrtlprnft> like, the lines on the floor
07:54 <wrtlprnft> deatch to the doublegrinder!
07:54 <wrtlprnft> -c
07:55 <spidey> i'm willing to bet the number of fortress people gets cut down
07:55 <wrtlprnft> not a bad thing
07:55 <spidey> while i was in there most of the people left soon after they joined
07:55 <spidey> and i don't mean the noobs
07:56 <wrtlprnft> it's mostly the idiots who will leave, yes
07:56 <wrtlprnft> the really skillful players will find other ways to victory
07:56 <spidey> well,kinda hard when i die as soon as i touch a wall
07:56 <MaZuffeR> i like the change too
07:56 <spidey> with 3.4 rubber left in my meter
07:56 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:57 <wrtlprnft> than that
07:57 <wrtlprnft> 's a bug
07:57 <wrtlprnft> if you don't go through a tunnel
07:57 <wrtlprnft> crie BUG!
07:57  * wrtlprnft wonders if z-man will kill the player that joins the game with PLAYER_1 BUG
07:59 <spidey> i how retarded
07:59 <spidey> my stereo stopped playing music after i was unhooking my other computer
08:00 <spidey> i thought i fucked something up,so i did just about everything you can do
08:00 <spidey> then found out amarok froze
08:00 <spidey> lol
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08:43 <spidey_>  09:43:19 up 7 days, 16:58,  1 user,  load average: 0.28, 0.25, 0.22
08:43 <spidey_> k i gotta goto my moms for a week,i'll talk to ya when i get there
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09:08 <Lucifer_arma> shah, as if.
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=54891#54891
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09:22  * spidey_ agrees with kenny and omega
09:22 <spidey_> ok,now i have to go,lol
09:22 <spidey_> brb
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10:20 <wrtlprnft> guru3: image rescaling doesn't work on the wiki, it seems :(
10:21 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Moviepacks_list
10:21 <wrtlprnft> the images for tronsector are there, but the thumbnails don't appear
10:44 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
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12:10  * spidey is at his moms
12:10 <spidey> this connection sucks,heh
12:10 <spidey> 14kb/s up and 45kb/s down
12:11 <spidey> i'ma go lag on tron,weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
12:11 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
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12:41 <madmax|pt> hello
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> apparently I'm going to have to go play it myself
12:42 <n54> hi & what?
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> fortress.  z-man finally added cycle width :)
12:50 <n54> ah
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13:35 <guru3> armagetronad.net has been renewed
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> you moved it to go-daddy as planned, right?
13:50 <guru3> since when was that planned?
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> since we found out how much Luke-Jr despises go-daddy :)
13:51 <guru3> not funny
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  have you tried fat cycles yet?
13:58 <guru3> no
14:03 <wrtlprnft> guru3: does the server you have the wiki on have the gd USE flag for PHP?
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> image resizing by default uses ImageMagick in mediawiki
14:04 <wrtlprnft> really?
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> yessir
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> there's an option to use something else, I forget what that something is
14:04 <wrtlprnft> uh, then he needs that ;)
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> gd might be needed to show images
14:04 <guru3> gd is enabled
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it'd be nice if he put up the math package too, I'll dig up links for it if you need them
14:05 <wrtlprnft> latex and you need to compile something that's already included in the sources
14:05 <guru3> well
14:06 <guru3> i think it's enabled
14:06 <guru3> imagemagick should be installed somewhere
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> we'll have to test the math thing, our documentation could use actual functions to show us what's happening :)
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> you might need to put the path to imagemagick in LocalSettings.php
14:07 <guru3> can't we just settle for the current half working status?
14:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, no
14:08 <wrtlprnft> new images won't work
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> sure.  :)  I'd like to just mention that one of the motivating reasons for switching server os's on my machine is to get the math package for mediawiki working, so when I get that done...
14:08 <guru3> darn
14:08 <guru3> looking for where imagemagic is...
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> which im ?
14:09 <wrtlprnft> the old ones are cached
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> I always forget the name of the binary
14:10 <wrtlprnft> convert
14:10 <guru3> i know it's installed
14:10 <guru3> cause the forums use it
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> so which convert :)
14:12 <guru3> well
14:12 <wrtlprnft> uh, maybe it's missing permissions?
14:12 <guru3> that's installed in a weird place Oo
14:12 <wrtlprnft> maybe the wiki can't write to its cache dir?
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's likely, remember I kept screwing up the cache dir permissions
14:12 <guru3> it can
14:12 <guru3> try uploading something now wrtlprnft 
14:16  * Lucifer_arma likes the fat cycles
14:16  * Lucifer_arma doesn't like people instantly reacting negatively to change
14:16  * wrtlprnft agrees
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> how can you go through life with your gut reaction to new situations always being hate?
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> grrrr
14:17  * Lucifer_arma snarls
14:17 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Sandbox
14:17 <wrtlprnft> works, it seems
14:18 <guru3> woo?
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> WOO WOO
14:18 <wrtlprnft> guru3: rught at the bottom
14:18 <guru3> i see
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> you notice the only people that like the fat cycles are the ones that already played pretty cleanly?  heh.
14:18 <wrtlprnft> now we just need to tell the wiki to reparse the screenshots
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> never thought cycle width would really split people up like that with such a clean cut of "these players are good" and "these players just use tricks"
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> just update the pages needed?
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> you know, do a little edit and save it?
14:19 <wrtlprnft> yeah, currently trying
14:19 <wrtlprnft> it's just one page
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> where's philippe so I can tell him he was right about cycle width?
14:20  * wrtlprnft predicted that, too
14:20 <wrtlprnft> #last --with minutes --from wrtlprnft 
14:20 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [17:13:37] <wrtlprnft> 2 minutes left to send me a message...
14:20 <guru3> you can't have width and rubber
14:20 <guru3> they're contradictory
14:21 <wrtlprnft> #last --with count --with minutes --from wrtlprnft 
14:21 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 5645 messages.
14:21 <wrtlprnft> gah
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> no they're not.  Rubber corrects for network latency, width is just physical simulation
14:21 <guru3> when you say it like that sure
14:21 <guru3> but with how it's used
14:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CBB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> rubber is used like the front bumper of a car is used to avoid hitting walls, at least in the South
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> I still don't see rubber and fat cycles being mutually exclusive
14:23 <n54> I always figured like this: the walls are only solid when you hit them prependicularily with your "nose" if not then the walls are as smoke to your bike ^"
14:23 <n54> the nose being the exact centrepoint of your bike
14:24 <n54> I mean the bikes drive through each other and all, it's obvious one isn't dealing with a truly pgysical world but rather you're inside a computer game ;)
14:24  * z-man likes to sit on anthills
14:24  * n54 did that once
14:25  * n54 can't believe some people actually do it for health reasons
14:25 <n54> then again ti was a swede... ;P
14:25 <n54> it*
14:25 <z-man> There are probably worse things :)
14:25 <n54> yes :)
14:25 <z-man> I wonder whether it would be a good idea to go play on Fortress now :)
14:26 <n54> although I kind fo feel sad for the ants being sut upon :S
14:26 <z-man> Probably should use a pseudonym.
14:26 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah.  I've been playing under a pseudonym lately myself.
14:26 <z-man> Ah, the ants are fine. You don't have to kill them, just agitate them.
14:26 <n54> why? are people taking out pitchforks and torches? :o
14:26 <z-man> Probably :)
14:26 <n54> lol ^^
14:26 <Lucifer_arma> pretty much, yeah, but they're also playing a very clean game in the process
14:27 <z-man> I've never seen a vote filled so fast :)
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> so they're just bitching, in the meantime the only thing that's changed is nobody sucker punches you anymore
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: should have waited a couple of weeks.  :)  A couple of weeks from now people would sing the praises of fat cycles
14:27 <z-man> Why that?
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> instead they're just having their gut reaction to learning new stuff
14:27 <n54> as long as it's optional I don't get why people worry about it
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> because I think if people played with it for awhile, most would come around and decide they liked it
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> just like most have decided they like the rubber....
14:28 <z-man> Ah, you mean just wait with the poll?
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, with the poll :)
14:28 <z-man> Nobody says I'm just going with the most popular option :)
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> of course, you can always dream up some reason to keep testing the feature :)
14:28 <z-man> Unfortunately, there is a strong technical reason to stop testing it :(
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't work?  or it works too well?
14:29 <z-man> It makes phasing bugs less likely, and I want them squished.
14:29 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
14:29 <[Xpert]DarkStar> re ><
14:29 <n54> hi
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> what >< , anyway?
14:29 <z-man> The problem is that I have to set RUBBER_MINDISTANCE really high, or the center gets squished on startup.
14:29 <z-man> And that also shadows the phasing bugs.
14:30  * Lucifer_arma really enjoyed stomping doublegrinders earlier
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> why does the guy do it 5 rounds in a row?  heh.
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> he must like to watch.
14:32 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft utf8 is the default encoding in Unix, it's cheaper to transport over the network, and no code has to be adapted to use a 16 bit basic char type.
14:32 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
14:34  * z-man goes to see if he gets kickvoted :)
14:38 <n54> :)
14:49 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188132.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:57 <n54> anyone here have any experience/detailed knowledge of dell laptop utility and restore partitions? do they do anything sensible for non-windows oses?
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> ack
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> the first wave of any assault against a fortified position can expect 50% losses, if the position is fortified (not hopeless0
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> so if you send 7 attackers against 3 defenders, after the initial clash you will have 4 attackers against 3 defenders
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> meanwhile, the other team has sent 5 attackers against 1 defender
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> which team has the hopeless position?
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> if that wasn't bad enough, the attackers you've sent are attacking the zone, *not* the defense
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> so the defense is coming and scraping them up
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> so your first wave is against the defense anyway, to kill, neutralize, or lure them away from the zone
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> the second wave makes the attack on the zone
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> if the defenses have been cleared, otherwise they have to attack the defenses.  It's just not logical to try to slip by the defenses, you just get boxed in, surrounded, and then killed
15:15  * Lucifer_arma wants to introduce the concept of "concentrated fire" to armagetron
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> not that any of that matters, you left 1 person to hold the fort against 5, you're fucked already
15:16 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
15:17 <wrtl_web_broken> z-man: FTGL only eats UTF-16
15:17 <z-man> I know
15:19 <wrtl_web_broken> which means we have two options: a) use utf-8 internally for everything and convert everything to utf-16 for rendering (very CPU intensive) or b) use utf-16 internally and only convert to UTF-8 for file/console/network I/O
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> can't we compromise and use utf-12 internally and convert everything on-the-fly?
15:24 <n54> :P
15:24 <n54> :)
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B9D29.versanet.de] has quit [Success]
15:27 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["cya"]
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15:32 <Lucifer_arma> man, I hate it when a team with 8 people sends 7 to attack
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> that's just Really Dumb, with capital letters
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't help that there are quite a few goalies who think that's good play and bitch when people stay back to help
15:33  * Lucifer_arma growls
15:34 <Vanhayes> by help do you mean double def? because that is annoying for some
15:35 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
15:42  * n54 hugs qtparted/gparted <3 <3 <3
15:42 <n54> their ntfs stuff should be merged into fdisk!
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> double def does annoy some, but helping defense doesn't mean double defense
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> it means playing near the zone, killing or otherwise neutralizing attackers, and being ready to take over goalie if needed
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> it's a team effort, there's no "I can do whatever I want and fuck everybody else" in team
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> personally, I don't like double def.  :)  It's useful when setting up, but otherwise I prefer to either be the goalie, or to play off the goalie's wall
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> by playing off his wall, I can keep the attack zone down so that attackers can only approach from one side, I get instant accleration when I need it,
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> and I can outmaze most attackers because they come in fast, I'm moving slow
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm right next to the goalie in case I need to dive in for any reason
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> most goalies I've played with appreciate me being back there.  :)  But there are a few who'd rather I not stay back there, and I just join the other team
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> that goalie sees me again, when I'm killing him and taking his stuff
15:57 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["good night"]
15:58 <Vanhayes> ya a good sweeper beats most double defs anytime, what I find the most annoying is when that defender tells u to go attack, dies, and then yells at you for not saving defense
15:59 <z-man> Actualy, there are plenty of I's in "I can do whatever I want and fuck everybody else" :)
16:00  * z-man likes to note it's not a good pseudonym if you don't change your instant chats
16:01 <n54> ?
16:02  * Lucifer_arma isn't trying to hide, just avoid the instant reactions people have when they see his regular name :)
16:03  * Vanhayes wonders if luci is in fort right now
16:03  * Lucifer_arma isn't
16:03 <wrtlprnft> z-man: what do you want instead?
16:03  * Lucifer_arma is using the name Rattlehead, in case you were wondering
16:03 <wrtlprnft> i tested converting on- the- fly, it is too slow
16:03 <Vanhayes> ah the noob of the year award or something along those lines
16:03 <Lucifer_arma> I agree, I find it annoying when the goalie says go attack and then dies and bitches
16:03 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: ahah
16:04 <z-man> wrtlprnft: it can't be slower than rendering, right?
16:04 <wrtlprnft> well, i have to copy everything i render
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: there's some stalker goig around calling me by my real name. What's lamer than that?  I don't know, but he's also teamkilling me, and people won't kick him
16:04 <wrtlprnft> that costs about 7FPS
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's what started me on this fake name thing, anyway
16:04 <wrtlprnft> of my 30
16:05 <z-man> wrtlprnft: it's hard to believe that a bit of conversation can be slower than rendering. Have you tried a static conversion buffer?
16:05 <z-man> Of course, if you compose std::strings char by char, thats going to suck.
16:06 <wrtlprnft> hmm
16:06  * z-man understands Lucifer_arma 
16:06  * wrtlprnft will try that
16:07 <wrtlprnft> will std::wstring::clear() set the length to 0?
16:07 <wrtlprnft> the allocated length i mean
16:12 <wrtlprnft> and then there's other trouble...
16:13 <wrtlprnft> for example, if some function wants to get the width of a piece of text before it renders it
16:13 <wrtlprnft> then I'd have to convert twice
16:20 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
16:28 <wrtlprnft> grr, what's the wchar equivalent for strlen()?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> nvm, it's wcslen
16:39 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/63052
16:39 <wrtlprnft> is there any more elegant way to do that?
16:39 <wrtlprnft> normal "string" doesn't work
16:46 <wrtlprnft> opera changelog
16:46 <wrtlprnft> UNIX:
16:46 <wrtlprnft> Plug-ins work better now.
16:46 <wrtlprnft> The tray icon can now be disabled with the command line option -notrayicon
16:46 <wrtlprnft> opera rocks!
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> I like this.  "Cycle width is bad because of <blah>"
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luci:  "Well, <blah> has always been the case anyway, what's changed?"
16:47 <wrtlprnft> now i just need to wait for the next beta/release, the weeklies are too experimental for me
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> or "<blah> has always been dumb, what's changed?"
16:48  * wrtlprnft should really stop doing monologues
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> I broke it up...
16:48 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> your monologue, I broke it up
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> at least, the last part of it
16:49 <wrtlprnft> thanks
16:49 <wrtlprnft> and now, where did my debug symbols go?
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=55521#55521  <--- feel like reading a book?
16:50 <wrtlprnft> didn't read it yet, same with your cockpit post :P
16:50 <wrtlprnft> i'll read it later though
16:51  * wrtlprnft thinks this is the fastest- growing thread in the history of these forums
16:51 <Vanhayes> it is really long for a topic started a ittle over 12 hours ago
16:51 <wrtlprnft> #0  0xb7918057 in isspace () from /lib/libc.so.6
16:51 <wrtlprnft> #1  0x081c2737 in cls (this=0x82ce110) at rFont.cpp:845
16:51 <wrtlprnft> cls() doesn't even call isspace!
16:52  * wrtlprnft thinks he got too much sun and his brain is stopping to work
16:53 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_8.png
16:53 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_3.png
16:53 <wrtlprnft> 2nd one
16:53 <wrtlprnft> why 8?!
17:04  * n54 hates laptops without independent volume control
17:04  * n54 is sick of hearing windows and knoppix chirping
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> that is a fast-growing thread, maybe I should stop posting in it for awhile.
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: heh, even after you go through the hole, you still have to sumo the goalie
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I might agree if we hadn't all gone to sumo and learned how to fight for real
17:15 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 16 10000000
17:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 80
17:15 <wrtlprnft> #base 2 16 11000000
17:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: C0
17:15 <Vanhayes> but you only have to sumo if it is one holer and one hole user, if u add just one more hole user there is no sumo
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> more reason to have multiple defenders.  A second defender jumping in and closing off most of the zone, going back out, and then circling while the goalie resets deals with it
17:31 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: I tried to restrain Omega and Psyko ... I really don't like their approach ... at least Omega behaved like someone took away his favorite toy :(
17:34 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:35 <joda_bot> In file included from ../../winlibs/SDL/include/SDL_config.h:38,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ../../winlibs/SDL/include/SDL_stdinc.h:28,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ../../winlibs/SDL/include/SDL_rwops.h:30,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ../../winlibs/SDL_mixer/mikmod/mikmod.h:525,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ../../winlibs/SDL_mixer/mikmod/mikmod_build.h:1,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ..\..\winlibs\SDL_mixer\mikmod\/mikmod_internals.h:40,
17:35 <joda_bot>                  from ..\..\winlibs\SDL_mixer\mikmod\mmalloc.c:33:
17:36 <joda_bot> ../../winlibs/SDL/include/SDL_config_win32.h:49: error: redefinition of typedef 'int8_t'
17:36 <joda_bot> E:/Programme/CodeBlocks/include/stdint.h:27: error: previous declaration of 'int8_t' was here
17:36 <joda_bot> ../../winlibs/SDL/include/SDL_config_win32.h:50: error: redefinition of typedef 'uint8_t'
17:36 <joda_bot> E:/Programme/CodeBlocks/include/stdint.h:28: error: previous declaration of 'uint8_t' was here
17:36 <joda_bot> Any idea how to fix this ?
17:38 <joda_bot> SDL_config_win32.h form winlibs typedefs int8_t (either based on another definition of unsigned or signed int) or the compiler just does not recognize the nested typedefs
17:39 <joda_bot> The conflicting lines themselves match exactly but one typedef might build upon a previous redefinition of signed int ?
17:39 <z-man> It doesn't matter if the lines match, a redefinition is an illegal redefinition :(
17:39 <joda_bot> hm
17:40 <z-man> Maybe there is some #ifdef you can set to disable one of the definitions?
17:40 <joda_bot> I can fix it by replacing the typedefs by #include "stdint.h" but I'm not sure the definitions match then
17:40 <joda_bot> I looked at the MSVC build file
17:41 <z-man> Well, there is not much choice for typedefs for int8_t and uint8_t, right?
17:42 <joda_bot> The MSVC file excludes UndefinePreprocessorDefinitions="../SDL/"/>
17:42 <z-man> Are you trying to upgrade to SDL 1.2.10?
17:42 <joda_bot> replace excludes by "does"
17:42 <joda_bot> Yes, I'm trying to compile SDL_mixer actually
17:42 <joda_bot> based on 1.2.10
17:43 <z-man> I'd just edit SDL_config_win32.h. That's why we have all the stuff in our own repository.
17:43 <joda_bot> Is there a way with MinGW to "undefinePreprocessorDefinitions"
17:43 <z-man> Perhaps a better solution presents itself later.
17:43 <z-man> typedefs aren't preprocessor definitions...
17:44 <joda_bot> z-man: I already did and commited that, but once I got cracks while the music or sound plays
17:44 <z-man> That's certainly unrelated :)
17:44 <z-man> If you get the basic typedefs wrong, worse things happen.
17:44 <joda_bot> and with the mp3 support the application crashes right away, but that might be my fault as I tried to generate a import lib from a dll
17:45 <joda_bot> If it's just some integer alignments ?
17:45 <joda_bot> I thought that might cause problems with sound playback, but would not be noticed otherwise ?
17:46 <z-man> I'd say it would give lots of overflow errors if you make the type too small.
17:46 <z-man> But seriously, what else can an int8 be other than a char?
17:46 <z-man> (On our suppored hardware)
17:47 <joda_bot> ok, so I fixed it, and just have to look elsewhere for bugs fine ;-)
17:49 <joda_bot> I'm going to bed .. .good night all
17:49 <joda_bot> thx z-man for the help
17:49 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-101-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:50  * z-man is in bed, too
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> heh, how does "the change makes it easier for the less skilled" always seem to mean "It makes it harder for me", and still somehow translate to "I am less skilled"?
18:16 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873CBB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:18 <n54> congruity of logic isn't a common trait, that's why :)
18:19 <n54> that's not to say Im any better, humainty is all about "rational irrationality" ^^
18:21 <n54> I haven't played with width but to me exploring "the impossible" of not having any width was/is quite enchanting, there's always room etc.
18:21 <n54> that and 90 degree turns ^^
18:22 <n54> me still wonders exactly where the pivot point is in relation to the bike in those turns
18:22 <n54> uh /me :S
18:25 <n54> meh... my next task is to figure out how to enable apci or apm on the laptop I'm messing with *fear* and then to get the fn keys working :S *should probably just shut it off and do it another day*
18:25 <n54> you're running linux on a laptop right Lucifer? did you manage to work it out?
18:44 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> yes and yes n54
18:46 <n54> cool
19:04 <Vanhayes> hmm who is shrunklands admin? anyone know? he just kicked me out for no reason.
19:05 <n54> no idea
19:08 <Vanhayes> o well guess it doesnt really matter
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20:28 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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20:36 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:50 <wrtlprnft> 6 pages!
20:50 <wrtlprnft> gosh. babies
20:51 <n54> 6 pages of babies? ^^
20:51 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:52 <n54> like hot babes? not sliming little humans?
20:53 <wrtlprnft> like whining
20:54 <n54> oh :( 6 pages!!! what are you reading? :S
20:54 <wrtlprnft> the thread about cycle width
20:54 <n54> oh I get it, about the width thing
20:54 <n54> :)
20:55 <n54> we need milliseconds on the timestamps here to see who was first ;)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:55 <n54> :)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe even ping charity?
20:55 <n54> lol yes ^^
20:56 <wrtlprnft> you know, so if someone high- pinged says something at the same time as someone low- pinged they get the same timestamp
20:56 <n54> hehe
20:58 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=55981#55981
20:58 <wrtlprnft> how... useful...
20:59 <n54> *clicks*
20:59 <n54> a lot of flooding going on 
21:00 <n54> people have too short dicks, we need more spam! >:| 
21:01 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:01  * wrtlprnft goes dig out his old visual basic prime number program
21:01 <n54> uh-oh :S :)
21:02 <wrtlprnft> I think i got 10MB worh of prime numbers in the end
21:03 <wrtlprnft> after running it for 2 weeks nonstop
21:03 <wrtlprnft> on a windows machine!
21:03 <n54> well I'm no windows-hater :)
21:04 <wrtlprnft> well, the machine eventually crashed
21:04 <wrtlprnft> !!!! Louven is figthing on the same side as Lucifer_arma!
21:04 <n54> no idea who that is
21:04 <wrtlprnft> Louven = oscilloscope
21:04 <n54> oh oscilloscope
21:04 <wrtlprnft> = freaking annoying guy :P
21:05  * wrtlprnft = freaking annoying guy too
21:05 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AF44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:05  * n54 has 1024x1024 resolution versions of his not-anywhere-completed arma theme ^^
21:05 <wrtlprnft> that's a bit much i guess
21:05 <wrtlprnft> 4MB memory
21:05 <n54> no, very pretty
21:06 <n54> 4MB is nothing on most computers
21:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, on the graphics card it does have an effect
21:06 <wrtlprnft> my card has 32MB memory i think
21:06 <n54> of course I have smaller resolutions too for those who notice 1024 being to big, both 512 and 256
21:06 <wrtlprnft> might be 64, no clue
21:06 <n54> I can never remember either but the stuff I have is old
21:07 <n54> not I believe multpile choices within a theme will ever be supported ^^
21:07 <wrtlprnft>         VideoRam    32768
21:07 <n54> not that*
21:07 <wrtlprnft> that's my xorg.conf
21:07 <wrtlprnft> no idea what would happen if i put 64*1024 in there
21:08 <n54> not much most likely
21:08  * wrtlprnft just tried some random power of two in there
21:08 <n54> as in you would probably not notice any performance issues
21:08 <wrtlprnft> and was happy it worked :P
21:08 <n54> oh I thought you typoed
21:09 <n54> heh you got a 64*1024 screen? ^^
21:11 <n54> or was it for the videoram?
21:13 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AF81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> you know, silly and I are in agreement about lots of things, we just have fundamental attitude differences that pitch us at odds from time to time
21:28  * Lucifer_arma noticed this very early, back when silly was new here
21:39  * wrtlprnft learned not to disagree with Lucifer_arma if he doesn't want a two page long answer post
21:40 <n54> lol :)
21:44  * wrtlprnft is tempted to make a bunch of new accounts on the forums to vote on that poll
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23:17 <Lucifer_arma> so, if I wind up with a negative number when figuring out the volume of a solid using a washer and an integral, can I take the absolute value of it as my answer?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> or does the negative mean I messed up?
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> my cycle's gained weight, I'm gonna go work some of it off

Log from 2006-06-08:
--- Day changed Thu Jun 08 2006
00:04  * spidey yawns
00:29  * Lucifer_arma watches a fly go into spidey's mouth
00:30  * spidey throws bones at lucifer
00:32  * Lucifer_arma outgrinds the bones
00:32 <spidey> :/
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> I squeeze killed myself a lot :)
00:32 <spidey> heh
00:32 <spidey> fortress is dead
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> there's an old attack I used to make that I picked up from root down a long time ago that fails with fat cycles
00:33  * Lucifer_arma is going to find a new alias, heh
00:34 <spidey> for somereason everytime i try they figure out it's me
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll change up my instant chats for this and see how long I can go before getting called out
00:42 <spidey> lol
01:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:03  * spidey slaps lucifer
01:39 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
01:39 -!- guru3 changed the topic of #armagetron to: has been released! | http://armagetronad.net/ | Watch out for ~walls from the future~ !!! | HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME
01:40 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o guru3] by guru3
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02:16 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [i=blah@adsl-71-145-131-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
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02:29 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Happy birthday to yoU!
02:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Happy birthday to yoU!
02:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Happy birthday dear guru3!
02:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Happy birthday to yoU!
02:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:54 <guru3> should i be offended by the capital U ?
03:12 <[NP]Tangent> yes
03:12 <[NP]Tangent> it's very insulting
03:12 <[NP]Tangent> fear the capital U
03:30 <spidey> lol
03:30 <spidey> happy birthday :p
03:40 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, wanna play sumo?
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> nah, I'm going to bed
03:43 <spidey> :(
04:02 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-131-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
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05:35 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
05:55 <spidey> sup Maz
05:55 <MaZuffeR> spidey :)
05:55 <spidey> :)
05:56 <spidey> i'm at my moms
05:56 <spidey> took one of my computers with me,lol
05:56 <MaZuffeR> hehe
05:56 <spidey> figured out why i slide so much in tron
05:56 <spidey> this connection is hella lot slower than mine
05:56 <spidey> yet i don't slide
05:56 <spidey> so something must be wrong with mine
05:57 <MaZuffeR> connection speed doesn't matter much
05:57 <spidey> in a way it does
05:57 <spidey> here i get 45kb/s download
05:57 <spidey> and 14kb/s upload
05:58 <spidey> at home i get 420kb/s down and 30kb/s up
05:58 <spidey> i shouldn't have a problem at home
06:07 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BBA46.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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06:53 <wrtlprnft> guru3: happy birthday :)
06:55 <guru3> thank you
07:00 <Luke-Jr> ...
07:00 <Luke-Jr> one more day, and s,guru3,luke-jr,
07:00 <Luke-Jr> =p
07:01 <guru3> , being / right?
07:04 <Luke-Jr> or , or . or any other character
07:05 <Luke-Jr> , is most common in our scripts
07:05 <guru3> mm ok
07:05 <guru3> same day as my dad then
07:05 <Luke-Jr> o.o
07:05 <Luke-Jr> heh, my wife was born on her mom's bday
07:06 <guru3> my brother
07:06 <guru3> has 3 kids right
07:06 <Luke-Jr> only 3?
07:06 <guru3> almost all of them the same bday
07:06 <guru3> and his wife
07:06 <Luke-Jr> hmm
07:06 <guru3> iirc
07:06 <Luke-Jr> weird
07:06 <guru3> brb
07:07 <Luke-Jr> probably convenient somewhat tho =p
07:07  * Luke-Jr goes to sleep
07:07 <Luke-Jr> night
07:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> 14:07:32 < Luke-Jr> only 3? <-- WTF?
07:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> only?
07:08 <[Xpert]DarkStar> 3 is like a lot aint it?
07:08 <MaZuffeR> i wouldn't call 3 a lot, but 1.7 is average in Finland
07:09 <[Xpert]DarkStar> 1.4 in switzerland iirc
07:11 <guru3> my question is
07:11 <guru3> who the heck memorizes that sort of info
07:11 <[Xpert]DarkStar> i dun memorize
07:11 <[Xpert]DarkStar> but i heard it lately
07:11 <MaZuffeR> i just remember random things
07:12 <MaZuffeR> and my number memory is very good
07:12 <guru3> mmmkay
07:22 <Luke-Jr> [Xpert]DarkStar: 3 is pathetic for more than 3 or 4 years
07:22 <Luke-Jr> average is worse than pathetic
07:22 <Luke-Jr> these days
07:24 <Luke-Jr> average is deadly
07:27 <[Xpert]DarkStar> heh
07:28 <Luke-Jr> in Finland, anyway
07:28 <Luke-Jr> I don't know #s for elsewhere =p
07:29 <MaZuffeR> how is it deadly? population is still increasing beacuse of immigration
07:29 <MaZuffeR> *because
07:30 <Luke-Jr> immigration does not increase population
07:30 <Luke-Jr> it just moves it
07:30 <MaZuffeR> i'm sure the world average is over 2
07:36 <Luke-Jr> doubt it
07:36 <Luke-Jr> especially when you consider China
07:37 <Luke-Jr> anyway, bed time for me
07:37 <MaZuffeR> 'night
07:40 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: care to make your upload script accept cockpit resources?
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07:52 <omega_> hey all
07:53 <omega_> and then there was silence
07:54 <MaZuffeR> hi
07:55 <MaZuffeR> silence is the normal state of this channel
07:55 <omega_> ahh lol
07:55 <omega_> hey maz
07:55 <omega_> lol just a channel to look good :D
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08:16 <wrtlprnft> that doesn't mean we never talk...
08:17 <wrtlprnft> although he probably only came to whine about cycle width
08:17 <MaZuffeR> probably
08:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
10:16  * spidey pokes maz
10:18 <MaZuffeR> don't poke me while i'm playing ;)
10:18 <spidey> lol
10:57 <MamaBear> Lucifer_arma: do you celebrate on Good Fridays?
11:46 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> you mean Bad Friday?
12:30 <spidey> lmao
12:30 <spidey> someone tried to ban me,from my server
12:30 <spidey> i have a 16-33 ping on it
12:30 <MaZuffeR> lol
12:30 <spidey> on a slower than dsl speed connection,and 150miles from the server
12:33 <spidey> MaZ,i host a deathmatch server from my house,there was only 2 people in it i was like hmmm,it's usually full,someone else joined and i saw "player has been kicked and banned for 60 minutes",so i told them to stop trying to admin my server,they told me to stfu :/
12:34 <MaZuffeR> isn't possible to change so that three votes is needed to kick someone?
12:34 <spidey> i changed the vote percentage to 110%
12:34 <spidey> which it's impossible to get 110% of the people to vote yes
12:34 <spidey> so it disables polls
12:36 <MaZuffeR> that works too...
12:36 <spidey> these two where kinda brain dead,lol
12:36 <spidey> after i kicked them once (usually i ban for that) they came back and tried to kick me(AGAIN)
12:37 <MaZuffeR> lol
12:37 <spidey> it's a good thing these servers have a remote admin console,i'd be banned from my own server till i got home
12:37 <spidey> lol
12:38 <spidey> spidey@3[~]$ uptime
12:38 <spidey>  13:38:05 up 8 days, 20:53,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
12:38 <spidey> my server's idle with that soldat server running on it
12:38 <spidey> ;x
12:40  * spidey is watching king kong,meh
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, fortress is full with the squeeze death
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> I thought everybody hated that
12:42 <spidey> people won't play on other servers if there ping is high
12:42 <spidey> most the fortress players have really low pings on it
12:42 <spidey> plus z-man changed the width to .25
12:43 <spidey> even i can take center 50% of the time
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> man, I just went screaming down the center, with cycle width at 0.25!
12:58  * Lucifer_arma thinks people just want to whine
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> only reason I didn't wipe out the goalie was because I missed the hole, heh
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> (there was a hole at the bottom I wanted to go through)
13:04 <spidey> 3d my ass :p
13:08 <Lucifer_arma> how many people playing with fake names right now?
13:28 <[Xpert]DarkStar> lol why should anyone not play with a fake name?
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> fake name is in "name different from people know you as"  :)
13:34 <spidey> people always know who i am for somereason
13:34 <spidey> maybe it's cause lucifer tells everyone
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> haha
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> ghableska picked me out at least, I think madmax did too but didn't say anything
13:35 <spidey> i knew who you was as soon as i saw you
13:35 <spidey> you was the only other one with a ping that matched mine
13:35 <spidey> heh
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> thaha
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> er
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> you can tell I was just playing, "t" is my talk key
13:35 <spidey> sheh
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> man, I even changed all my instant chats for this one :(
13:36  * spidey is watching spanish tv
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> ghableska figured it on name completion
13:36 <spidey> and i can't understand a fucking word
13:37 <spidey> 2 days till i go home!
13:37 <spidey> also cahrter is getting a call when i get home
13:37 <spidey> i get less slide on a hella slower connection than i do on mine
13:37 <spidey> that's gay
13:48 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the upload script allows automatic uploads only for particular DTDs-- one requirement is that they be release DTDs; so, once 0.3.0 is released, cockpit should have a DTD that meets that requirement
13:48 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:49 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: as a small reminder, the upload script is not meant to allow uploads of any valid resource, merely the common cases.
13:49 <Luke-Jr> everything outside that range can still go manually
13:49 <Luke-Jr> though I'd be hesitant to accept a resource which may not ever be supported in a release version
14:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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14:46 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188132.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:50 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-13-70.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
14:50 <Your_mom_arma> hey
15:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hey
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> hi Your_mom_arma 
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> what fake name are you using ingame now?
15:09 <Your_mom_arma> 7
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I had you figured out as a phony but not yet placed
15:10  * Lucifer_arma is 3d Man
15:10 <Your_mom_arma> ph
15:10 <Your_mom_arma> oh
15:18 <spidey> you wonder how many times i gotta say i'ma breaking hella early before the wingman gets it
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15:25 <Lucifer_arma> more than once, I'm sure
15:27 <spidey> well....i tked him everytime
15:27 <spidey> i'm not breaking normal when the other team is faster and i have nowhere to go
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> that is an appropriate response :)
15:27 <spidey> so he can die or break about half way 
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> break early and the front guys play wide defense, the guys behind him break and turn around waiting for the middle to clear up and attack from the middle
15:28 <spidey> yea
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> I always found that works better against double-grinders than double-grinding yourself :)
15:29 <spidey> heh
15:29 <spidey> double grinding can win the round,if the person knows how
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> see, it's about concentration of force.  Double-rinding yourself lets you match the other team man for man, but breaking early lets you concentrate force on him,
15:29 <spidey> i'e never killed a wingman or center from it
15:30 <spidey> on accident
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> and concentrated force beats man-to-man any day
15:30 <spidey> i've killed then on purpose for being assholes though :p
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> heh, center's being an asshole I just run him into the other team's wall and use his hole to attack :)
15:30 <spidey> LOL
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> that works with nongrinders too, surprisingly enough
15:31 <spidey> yea
15:31 <spidey> i'ma dread resetting up my network in 3 days
15:31 <spidey> :/
15:31 <spidey> i nrought the router and one of the computers to my moms with me
15:31 <spidey> brought*
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I did that once with a hotel room, then it turned out their network required me to access a web page in the router before it would let me do anything,
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> making the phone I brought with me useless :(
15:32 <spidey> lol
15:32 <spidey> get this
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> next time I'll have a crossover cable and my laptop configured to share the network.  A simple cron job to keep the hotel's network open should fix that.
15:33 <spidey> i put winxp pro corp. on a 400mhx p2 i overclocked to 630mhz and has 64mb of ram and a 4 gig hdd
15:33 <spidey> tweaked it
15:33 <spidey> and it runs smooth
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> ok, is that it or is there a second half of this story?
15:34 <Your_mom_arma> why bother paying for a windows install for that...
15:34 <spidey> who says i payed for it?
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> if you didn't get the source, you bought it
15:35 <Your_mom_arma> fair enough
15:35 <spidey> i can talk microsoft into giving me the activation keys
15:35 <spidey> cause i'm that damn good :p
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> or they really care that damn little :P
15:35 <spidey> exactly
15:35 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:35 <spidey> all i do is say "i formattec because of a virus"
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> you could call them every day with that :)
15:36 <spidey> they say " do you have this cd installed on more than one computer",i say " no "
15:36 <spidey> then i read my keys
15:36 <spidey> they give me theres
15:36 <Lucifer_arma>  /team Uninstall all viruses and worms!
15:36 <spidey> fsimple :p
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> Microsoft should consider the liveCD route to enforce their licensing.  :)
15:37 <spidey> lol
15:37 <spidey> someone would crack it
15:37 <spidey> rip the cd,crack it,reburn it
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> with some grub we could probably still get around it, though
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, just copy the files and configure grub to boot windows :)
15:37 <spidey> theyyea
15:37 <spidey> yea*
15:38 <spidey> but really,i have a pirated/activated winxppro corp. cd,i wouldn't bother doing that :p
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> not that I do that shit or anything.  :)  Only closed source software I'm running right now is my nvidia driver, and this java app that came with my calc textbook
15:38 <Your_mom_arma> #quote get 9
15:38 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: Quote #9: "he eats a bowl of wheat stocks and small pebbles -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:28 AM, March 29, 2006)
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> #quote
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> not random quote?
15:39 <spidey> #q 1
15:39 <armabot> spidey: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
15:39 <spidey> ?
15:39 <spidey> i said 1!!!!
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #15: "You see a body ripped appart, blood splatter on the ceiling, gore all over. Tell me, would you really suspect that worm making a run for it toward the door at 5 cm per minute? No you would not! - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 01:09 PM, April 25, 2006)
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> there isn't a 1
15:39 <spidey> oh
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
15:39 <spidey> #eightball is Lucifer_arma secretly gay!?
15:39 <armabot> spidey: Yes!
15:39 <spidey> hahahaha
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> who says it's a secret?  heh
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not many in there, I guess
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #4: "left vertical bar is brakes, right one is an early-90s roleplaying game made by White Wolf before they went all Magic: The Gathering happy -- armabot (markov)" (added by wrtlprnft at 10:24 PM, March 26, 2006)
15:40 <spidey> #eightball iis the moon big?
15:40 <armabot> spidey: Maybe...
15:40 <spidey> #eightball iis the moon big?
15:40 <armabot> spidey: What are you asking me for?
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
15:40 <spidey> #eightball is the moon big?
15:40 <armabot> spidey: No.
15:40 <spidey> liar
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> #quote random
15:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #13: "<hang3r> How many microbuscity's does it take to change a light bulb?" (added by hang3r at 11:41 PM, March 30, 2006)
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, how many?
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> #q 14
15:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #6: "luci what exactly did you use robots for pleasure -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:52 AM, March 27, 2006)
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:40 <Lucifer_arma> #q 15
15:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #8: "master your own mind, otherwise the game will destroy you -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:27 AM, March 29, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q 16
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #9: "he eats a bowl of wheat stocks and small pebbles -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:28 AM, March 29, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q 17
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #12: "'ebuild blah portage rocks emerge hotplug coldplig - armabot mashuffle'" (added by n54 at 09:44 AM, March 29, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q 18
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #15: "You see a body ripped appart, blood splatter on the ceiling, gore all over. Tell me, would you really suspect that worm making a run for it toward the door at 5 cm per minute? No you would not! - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 01:09 PM, April 25, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q 19
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #4: "left vertical bar is brakes, right one is an early-90s roleplaying game made by White Wolf before they went all Magic: The Gathering happy -- armabot (markov)" (added by wrtlprnft at 10:24 PM, March 26, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q 5
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> this thing is lying to me
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> #q
15:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #14: "On a full moon, Christopher Walken transform in a wereworm. Not as dangerous as a werewolf, but twice as cunning. - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 12:58 PM, April 25, 2006)
15:42 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-13-70.delv.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
15:49 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188132.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:50 <[Xpert]DarkStar> night dudes
15:50 <[Xpert]DarkStar> sleep well
16:01 <wrtlprnft> spidey:  23:01:32 up 47 days, 23:06,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
16:02 <wrtlprnft> way to go to beat me. I recommend you set your system clock a bit faster
16:02 <spidey> spidey@3[~]$ uptime
16:02 <spidey>  17:02:16 up 9 days, 17 min,  2 users,  load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00
16:02 <spidey> i've only had mepis installed 9 days
16:03 <wrtlprnft> you'll make some stupid mistake one day, i guarantee you
16:03 <spidey> nah,only thing that'll get me is a power outage
16:03 <spidey> i do almost everything over ssh
16:03  * wrtlprnft does everything over ssh :P
16:03 <spidey> so no accidental shutdowns :p
16:04 <spidey> and i don't have the power button hooked up
16:04 <wrtlprnft> or a critical kernel update :P
16:04 <spidey> lol
16:04 <wrtlprnft> that'll destroy the uptime :(
16:04 <spidey> hehe
16:05 <spidey> it'll be fine like it is for now :p
16:05 <spidey> i'm just learning how to use it anyways
16:05 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:06 <spidey> untill soldat,halo,and swat4 come on for linux which they won't,i need a windows box :p
16:06 <spidey> or wine inproves with games
16:07 <wrtlprnft> who needs all that stuff?
16:07 <wrtlprnft> there's armagetron!
16:08 <spidey> i payed $30 for halo and $35 for swat4
16:08 <spidey> i'ma play it!
16:08  * wrtlprnft paid $0.00000000000 for armagetron and still plays it
16:08 <spidey> and? i like to play 3d shooting games sometimes
16:08 <wrtlprnft> pig sty?
16:09 <spidey> :|
16:09 <wrtlprnft> bzflag (beurks)?
16:09 <wrtlprnft> aa?
16:15 <spidey> i want a 10ft burmese python
16:16 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-210-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
16:16 <wrtlprnft> #g 10 ft in m
16:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 10 feet = 3.04800 meters
16:16 <Lucifer_arma> the nice thing about using an alias is that people don't expect you to be good
16:16 <Lucifer_arma> the problem is that people try to convince you to doublegrind
16:17 <spidey> yea
16:17 <spidey> pythons can get upto 30ft
16:17 <Lucifer_arma> I have a 30 foot dick
16:17 <spidey> in your dreams
16:17 <spidey> in life it's like 3cm
16:18 <wrtlprnft> (that means his wife stepped on it 30 times)
16:18 <spidey> hahaha
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> my wife tried to estimate how many miles of dick I've given her one time
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> I think she was just trying to make me feel better for having a 3 inch penis
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> but she does like that diameter
16:21 <spidey> i'ma putting that on bash.org
16:21 <spidey> lmao
16:25 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know how i select a GTK style?
16:25 <wrtlprnft> I used gconf for that, but it's gone
16:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:30 <spidey> hahaha
16:30 <spidey> owned! pwned! shut the hell up!
16:30 <spidey> that's someones sig on a forum
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> I love my bass
16:37 <spidey> how much you got?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> damn redneck thinks I'm talking about fish
16:38 <MaZuffeR> lol
16:38 <spidey> no......
16:38 <spidey> i got 2 12s and around 15 speakers
16:38 <spidey> only 1 12 and 4 speakers hooked up
16:38 <spidey> i'm scared i'll overload the stereo with them all
16:39 <GodTodd> he's talking about a 4 stringer spidey ;)
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> now the damn redneck thinks I"m talking about speakers
16:39 <spidey> :|
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> next he'll ask if I bought it at walmart
16:39 <GodTodd> didn't you? :D
16:39  * GodTodd runs.
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> waaaa, I think I've just worked out one of the songs I had going for arma
16:46  * Lucifer_arma wonders if his computer would be easy or hard to mic the bass right now
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> gomes and joe and kamp were wanting me to take it back into their teamspeak server...
16:49  * Lucifer_arma decides to check it anyway, has to be setup for the guitar to come through
16:52 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ok, now i have an utf8 branch :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> there is soooo much dust on my guitar
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> my bass is totally free of dust, but my guitar is covered
17:19 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.think-aboutit.com/omega/files/omega18.htm
17:52 <spidey> MaZuffeR, ?
17:52 <MaZuffeR> ? ?
17:52 <spidey> does soldat start for you?
17:53 <MaZuffeR> yes
17:53 <spidey> grrrrr
17:53 <spidey> weird,it doesn't for me and peoplefrom the clan  posted on the forums it wasn't for them....
17:54 <spidey> it just hangs in the background
18:01 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:09 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:09 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:09 <wrtlprnft> wb i guess
18:09 <spidey> clicked the "X" on accident
18:09 <spidey> lol
18:11 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
18:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 01:11:06 up 48 days, 1:16, 4 users, load average: 0.10, 0.04, 0.01
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> damn, people really do bitch at you for anything if your name is unfamiliar
18:11 <wrtlprnft> yeah
18:12 <wrtlprnft> i like using my name, it keeps people from annoying me too much
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh, actually I'm Lucifer, and the reason I'm breaking late is because I was playing with MaZuffeR earlier and he could handle it, so that's wht I'm used to.  Give me an extra round to adjust, if you don't mind, I'm sorry for killing you."
18:12 <wrtlprnft> and of course, i'd give myself away by using tab completion :P
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, Ghableska picked up on that earlier :(
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i could go and rename myself to RTFM :P
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I wouldn't have been so annoyed with Vogel if JJBean hadn't ripped into me for apparently not suiciding and allowing my betters to play
18:14 <wrtlprnft> and then to wRTFMrnft ;)
18:14 <spidey> lucifer,now you see what i mean :)
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> about what, spidey?
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> people just bitching at unfamiliar names?
18:15 <spidey> <Lucifer_arma> heh, I wouldn't have been so annoyed with Vogel if JJBean hadn't ripped into me for apparently not suiciding and allowing my betters to play
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, you missed it.  See, I was attacking, but there were two defenders in front of me I was trying to get around.  JJBean was following me, and he bitched that I was blocking him from attacking
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> of course, he didn't see that he would've had to deal with the two defenders in front of me that were doing a fine job of blocking me
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> if they could block me, they'd have killed JJBean outright
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> so anyway, next round, this guy who I suspect is Your_mom was following me, and I was making that really quick rush that happens when you manage to outgrind the other team
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> but they ran a close defender on that side, and when I got there, I had to turn around or die, so I turned around.
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> According to JJBean, this was an attempted teamkill because this other guy had been following me.  He apparently didn't see me steer wide to allow the other guy room.
18:17 <spidey> well,i'ma go play and piss people off
18:17 <spidey> it's what i do best
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> he also didn't see the tight grind that had been laid on the back wall that led to my decision to pull out and try something else
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, go to sumo and harass jjbean for me :)
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> that's where he went
18:18 <spidey> lol
18:19 <spidey> actually,i'ma goto fortress
18:19 <spidey> i have a reason to break really early now
18:19 <spidey> lol
18:25 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
18:25 <madmax|pt> hi all
18:26 <madmax|pt> wrtl, the rubber is really going down too fast
18:32 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:47 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
18:48 <joda_bot> hi
18:49 <joda_bot> oh, happy birthday guru3 :-)
18:49 <joda_bot> (I guess)
18:50 <joda_bot> #message z-man* I got some bug reports in german, that ArmagetronAd has serious flaws when started on Windows 98
18:50 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
18:51 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: we should try to get some Windows 98 testers
18:51 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:51 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: you did agree ?
18:51 <joda_bot> you don't 
18:51 <wrtlprnft> i have a windows98 machine here, but it is a) my homestay mother's and b) it sucks
18:51 <wrtlprnft> yes i do
18:52 <wrtlprnft> if you can find them :P
18:55 <joda_bot> isn't Iceman still using W9x ?
18:56 <wrtlprnft> yes, but it's 99.9% hacked
18:56 <wrtlprnft> probably not a good base for testing
19:14 <joda_bot> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=57001#57001
19:16 <joda_bot> off to bed again
19:16 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
19:17 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: is there a way we can get sortresources.py to output parser error messages like arma does?
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> need to run it through a validating parser, which it doesn't right now, afaik
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> should be able to give it a DTDHndler and EntityResolver to make it validate
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> then, iirc, it throws an exception when the document doesn't validate.  You have to catch the exception to get a more useful error out of it.
19:22  * wrtlprnft isn't a good python programmer
19:36  * wrtlprnft wonders why Luke-Jr's grammer correction has a typo
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> grammAr correction?  Where?
19:38 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/
19:39 <wrtlprnft> -    std::cout << thesong.title << ", by " << thesong.author << "
19:39 <wrtlprnft> ";
19:39 <wrtlprnft> +    std::cout << thesong.title << " by " << thesong.author << "
19:39 <wrtlprnft> ";
19:39 <wrtlprnft> the first one isn't elegant, but still correct
19:39 <wrtlprnft> and the log message has a typo :P
19:45 <MaZuffeR> spidey: there's a guy on zombie server who joined blue, come kick him
19:45 <MaZuffeR> nvm, dragon was there
19:45 <spidey> :p
19:47 <spidey> maz,dragon said she slaps you for not saying hi,and that she's wizzee aka wolverine
19:49 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
19:59 <spidey> i have a idea
20:00 <spidey> vga to tv crossover
21:00 <MaZuffeR> spidey: someone joined zombies again
21:04 <spidey> script isn't working :/
21:04 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:06 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AF44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:45 <wrtlprnft> no more cycle_width?
22:45 <wrtlprnft> :(((((((((
22:45 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:45 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:17 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:22 <spidey>  dude
23:23 <spidey> 3 people stole my bed.....
23:23 <spidey> i bed damned if i'm sleeping on the floor,i'll roll them outta my bed :|
23:23 <spidey> i be*
23:44 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:49 <spidey> if i have to put up with one more day of a spanish channel,i'ma massacure everyone in this house >.>
23:49 <spidey> holy shit maz,you addicted to soldat now? :p
23:50 <spidey> you've been in there like all day,lol
23:52 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:52 <spidey> wb
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> z-man's not really there, that's just his client logging in and out automatically
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> (last time I said that, he really was there)

Log from 2006-06-09:
--- Day changed Fri Jun 09 2006
00:16 <spidey> lol
00:16 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
00:16 <MaZuffeR> spidey: more like all night O.o
00:16 <spidey> lmao
00:17 <spidey> you're addicted :p
00:17 <spidey> i was once myself
00:17 <spidey> it's a fun game,it's like trons fortress
00:17 <MaZuffeR> no, just don't want to stop when i'm starting to get a hang of it
00:17 <spidey> hehehehe
00:18 <spidey> man,my luck sucks
00:19 <spidey> my mom went to sleep,now i'm in a room with 3 mexicans and don't know how to tell them i'm ready to goto sleep so they'll get out
00:19 <spidey> meh
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> adios amigos
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> vamanos amigos
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> the second one first, then the first
00:25 <spidey> hmm
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> throw in some por favors and graciases also
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> better yet, just put their beer outside
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> they'll leave on their own
00:26 <spidey> one turned on MTV and looked at me "you like this?"
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> si senor.  vamanos por favor.
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how to say "I want to go to sleep"
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> use some sign language
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> not middle-finger, either
00:29 <spidey> lol
00:29 <spidey> i'm not really that tired right now,i feel asleep at the table and one of them opened the fridge and woke me up
00:31 <spidey> shit
00:31 <spidey> i forgot my ip at home
00:31 <spidey> grrr
00:31 <spidey> [spidey_] (n=spidey@66-168-145-125.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) : spide
00:31 <spidey> gotta love /whois :x
00:39 <spidey> oh mi dios que la pinche el hax
00:41 <spidey> el lucifer tiene gusto de hombres
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> haha, no hablo espanol motherfucker!
00:42 <spidey> lol
00:42 <spidey> "lucifer likes men"
00:43 <spidey> and "oh my god what the fuck hax"
00:44 <spidey> el lucifer come poop 
00:44 <spidey> :P:
00:44 <spidey> LOL
00:51 <spidey> #tell Lucifer_arma HI!!!!
00:52 <spidey> #list alias
00:52 <armabot> spidey: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, less, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, (1 more message)
00:52 <spidey> #help
00:52 <armabot> spidey: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
00:52 <spidey> #hello
00:52 <armabot> Hello spidey :)
00:52 <spidey> #digg
00:52 <armabot> spidey: Georgetown research leads to first cancer vaccine! || Amazon selling Ubuntu DVDs || Getting your World Cup fix without a TV || Clockless ARM core set to lead HotChips embedded session || BT exec pins Google as 'our biggest threat' || "Cryptic Species" of Shark Discovered || Nintendo DS can be used as a touch screen controller for the Wii || Speed cameras accidentally get (5 more messages)
00:53 <spidey> #it's
00:53 <armabot> who?
00:53 <spidey> #man
00:53 <armabot> spidey: (man <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "rss http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/man.php?c=$1&p=@1".
00:53 <spidey> #man
00:53 <armabot> spidey: (man <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "rss http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/man.php?c=$1&p=@1".
00:53 <spidey> #man Lucifer_arma 
00:53 <armabot> spidey: Error: Couldn't get RSS feed.
00:54 <spidey> #eightballs
00:54 <armabot> spidey: The answer is a resounding no.
00:54 <spidey> #eightballs
00:54 <armabot> spidey: You're kidding, right?
00:54 <spidey> #eightballs is lucifer really satan!?
00:54 <armabot> spidey: NO.
00:54 <spidey> pwn
00:56 <guru3> i wonder why it's eightballs
00:56 <guru3> i mean
00:56 <guru3> who's gote 8 balls.
00:57 <spidey> i got eightlegs
00:57 <spidey> does that count?
00:57 <guru3> haha
00:57 <spidey> :p
00:58 <spidey> happy birthday :p
00:58 <guru3> thanks
00:59 <spidey> you 18 now?
00:59 <guru3> yeah
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> luci, come into teamspeak and play your bass.
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> THERE'S NO ONE FRIGGIN THERE!
01:00 <guru3> haha
01:00 <guru3> oops
01:00 <guru3> i can come for about 8 minutes before i have to go catch my train to work :/
01:00 <spidey> at this rate man,you're gonna be gray in a few months,then have a wrinkled skin,then before to long....look like lucifer
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh, doesn't matter really, joe just gave me an open invitation, and I figured I was rockin' out anyway, might as well go in there.
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> up to you, but I don't have a microphone hooked up, so I can't talk
01:01 <guru3> lol
01:01 <guru3> that's ok
01:01 <guru3> i don't remember the address
01:01 <spidey> !
01:01 <guru3> and i turned off that comp's monitor already
01:01 <spidey> lucifer,you never come talk to me :(
01:01 <spidey> guru did once :p
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> I never come and talk to anyone, it's nothing personal
01:02 <guru3> and there's a reason i haven't done it since
01:02 <guru3> ;)
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> I just now--just now installed the teamspeak client, and I knew where the post for joe's was :)
01:02 <spidey> :o
01:02 <spidey> i sound that bad ? :s
01:02 <guru3> jk
01:03 <spidey> :p
01:03 <MaZuffeR> i probably should get some sleep now so that I don't fall asleep while watching the world cup, good night
01:03 <spidey> lol,stop playing soldat so much :p
01:03 <spidey> it's bad for your eyes
01:03 <guru3> shit i hope this stuff finnishes copying to my laptop before i have to go
01:04 <guru3> it's my during work anime
01:04 <guru3> cause i dun wanna work today
01:04 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
01:04 <spidey> lol
01:04 <guru3> curse you you slow 10/100!
01:04  * spidey has a 50mbit transfer over lan
01:05 <guru3> 600mb/4.6GB
01:05 <guru3> and i have to leave in about 6 minutes
01:05 <guru3> will it make it? :S
01:05 <spidey> how long has it been transfering?
01:05 <guru3> i dunno
01:05 <spidey> lol
01:05 <spidey> it's not 
01:06 <guru3> running timing tests
01:06 <spidey> i love how people try to play admin on my servers when they think i'm not looking :/
01:06 <guru3> in 9.88 seconds
01:07 <guru3> 65216KB transfered
01:07 <spidey> it'll be done?
01:07 <spidey> oh
01:07 <spidey> nice
01:07 <spidey> i get like
01:07 <spidey> 1,596kb/s over lan
01:07 <spidey> should get more but the router's gay
01:07 <guru3> shit it's not gonna finnish
01:07 <guru3> fuck fuck fuck
01:08 <spidey> take both computers with you?
01:08 <guru3> 1.7/4.6
01:08 <guru3> yeah like i can take my file server with me
01:08 <spidey> rofl
01:08 <guru3> the fact that it weighs about 50lbs
01:08 <guru3> has NOTHING what soever to do with portability
01:08 <spidey> 50lbs?
01:08 <spidey> jeez
01:08 <guru3> it's a solid case
01:08 <guru3> and there are a lot of drives
01:09 <spidey> heh
01:09 <guru3> something like 1.3TB of storage
01:09 <guru3> i can't remember exactly
01:09 <guru3> if i run for the train instead of walk...
01:09 <spidey> if any of my computers weighed more than 20lbs they wouldn't move from where they are
01:09 <spidey> i'm that lazy
01:09 <guru3> which is why i'm not moving it
01:09 <spidey> lol
01:09 <guru3> i can wait like 4 more minutes
01:10 <spidey> ride a bike?
01:10 <spidey> ZOOM ZOOM
01:10 <guru3> more trouble than it's worth
01:10 <guru3> it's not that far to the station
01:10 <spidey> heh
01:10 <guru3> i think if i run i can make the station in like 3 minutes
01:10 <guru3> walking it's like 6
01:10 <guru3> 2.7GB :(
01:10 <spidey> kick it in the ass!
01:11 <spidey> i could burn 4.6gb faster than that's coping :p
01:11 <spidey> maybe...
01:11 <spidey> takes 30 sseconds to burn 700mb at 12x
01:11 <guru3> my laptops
01:11 <guru3> have never actually been new when i've got them
01:12 <guru3> so
01:12 <guru3> they all have problems
01:12 <spidey> heh
01:12 <guru3> one's addicted to drugs
01:12 <guru3> one can't stop drinking
01:12 <guru3> etc
01:12 <spidey> LOL
01:12 <guru3> ;)
01:12 <guru3> one's HD operates at 1MB/s top speed
01:12 <guru3> not sure wtf is wrong with that one
01:12 <spidey> damn
01:13 <guru3> 3.6GB
01:13 <spidey> this one is the only one i got that doesn't have anything wrong with it
01:13 <guru3> train in 8 minutes
01:13 <guru3> better find my shoes
01:13 <spidey> my nix box has problems with the mouse/keyboard input,and my ibm has 48mb of ram
01:13 <spidey> xD
01:14 <guru3> i'm off here
01:14 <guru3> bbl (when @ work)
01:14 <spidey> cya
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> poor guys on the lobster tub can't hang with me, heh
01:25 <spidey> LOL
01:25  * spidey comes to school luci
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> schooled, my ass
02:24 <guru3> at "work" back
02:24 <guru3> back = now
02:24 <guru3> the damn hd ran out of space before the transfer finnished
02:24 <guru3> cause of 7GB of temporary files lingering Oo
02:25 <guru3> and lemme tell ya
02:25 <guru3> booting linux with 0 free space
02:25 <guru3> is not happy
02:26 <guru3> haha excellent
02:26 <guru3> video full screen on one monitor
02:26 <guru3> ssh on the other
02:26 <guru3> it's brilliant!
02:27 <guru3> and if my mom catches me i'm dead meat
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> cool.  Can you have her send you to me if that happens?  I'll go see if I have enough freezer space...
02:58 <guru3> lol
03:04 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:43 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: grammar != speeling
05:34 <Luke-Jr> wtf is armagetronad/win32?
05:39 <Luke-Jr> ...
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yaart is joda
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> joda is yaart
05:55 <Luke-Jr> o
05:55 <Luke-Jr> so why is he messing up the build structure?
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> he's not messing up the build structure
05:56 <Luke-Jr> certainly looks like it
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> a better question, in my mind anyway, is why do we ship linux/unix/whatever makefiles with the source release, but not windows stuff?
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> Well, actually we do.
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> Then why are they in different svn directories?  Ahhh, we've been talking about it here a lot.
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> you should talk to z-man about it from here, he and I digress on specifics.  :)
05:57 <Luke-Jr> we don't ship makefiles ;)
05:57 <Luke-Jr> not technically anyhow
05:58 <Luke-Jr> as for why, Make is a standard and our primary build method
05:58 <Luke-Jr> win32 & OS X are secondary build methods
05:59 <Luke-Jr> if you want win32/OSX stuff shipped with the source release, then the source releases should either be the entire tag directory (instead of tag/armagetronad), or tag/armagetronad should be moved to tag and everything moved somewhere logical within
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> right.  secondary.  I"m glad you used that word, because I was just asking why we treat windows and os x developers as second-class people, and why they put up with it.
06:00 -!- Nixda329 [n=5494043d@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
06:01 <Luke-Jr> They're secondary build methods, not platforms
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> "If youw ant to build the game in inux, you already have everything.  If for Windows and OS X, you have to jump through all these hoops"
06:01 -!- Nixda329 [n=5494043d@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
06:01 <Luke-Jr> I'm pretty sure you can use automake in Win and OSX
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> sure, but they're not the primary build methods on those platforms.
06:01 <Luke-Jr> just as KDevelop should probably get a build/kdevelop dir
06:01 <Luke-Jr> platforms don't have primary build methods
06:01 <Luke-Jr> programs do
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> the primary build method on Windows is what joda's moving, and nemo's always kept his stuff there.
06:02 <Luke-Jr> Code::Blocks isn't even supported by M$
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> I don't feel like arguing with a damn language lawyer.  If you don't want to understand, there's nothing I can do for you.
06:02  * Lucifer_arma is away: doesn't want to talk to Luke-Jr
07:21 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
07:21 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 14:20:56 up 48 days, 14:26, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
07:23 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: cat armagetronad/AUTHORS
07:24 <wrtlprnft> The AA-DevTeam currently consists of (alphabetic username order):
07:24 <wrtlprnft> Real name           SF username     Forum name (empty if identical to SF name)
07:24 <wrtlprnft> Jochen Darley       jarrt           joda.bot
07:30  * wrtlprnft notices that there's a typo. His name is Yarrt
07:32 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: typo == grammar error == nitpicking
07:38 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
08:31 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:23 -!- j0hann3s is now known as wejp
09:51 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
09:57 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
10:30 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:31 <spidey> it's the maz dood!
10:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
10:31 <MaZuffeR> yes, it's me, you can sit down now
10:32 <spidey> :p
10:32 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
10:32 <armabot> spidey: 17:32:49 up 48 days, 17:37, 4 users, load average: 0.23, 0.08, 0.07
10:33 <spidey> ...
10:33 <spidey> why say spidey?
10:33 <wrtlprnft> ?
10:33 <spidey> <wrtlprnft> #uptime
10:33 <spidey> <armabot> spidey: 17:32:49 up 48 days, 17:37, 4 users, load average: 0.23, 0.08, 0.07
10:33 <wrtlprnft> so?
10:33 <spidey> you did #uptime
10:34 <wrtlprnft> #help uptime
10:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (uptime <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo spidey: [rss http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/uptime.php]".
10:34 <spidey> shouldn't it have said wrtlprnft:
10:34 <spidey> oh
10:34  * wrtlprnft loves abusing aliases and the rss command
10:35 <spidey> spidey@3[~]$ uptime
10:35 <spidey>  11:35:22 up 9 days, 18:50,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
10:35 <wrtlprnft> boring. not efficient at all
10:36 <wrtlprnft> involves copy and paste :p
10:36 <spidey> ....
10:36 <spidey> and?
10:36 <wrtlprnft> well, i like being efficient :P
10:36 <wrtlprnft> #aluas add u uptime
10:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add u uptime
10:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
10:37 <wrtlprnft> #u
10:37 <armabot> spidey: 17:37:02 up 48 days, 17:42, 4 users, load average: 0.05, 0.07, 0.07
10:37 <wrtlprnft> won't get any better than that until i figure out how to get instant chat keys for irssi
10:44 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-8-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
11:09 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-8-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:27 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-210-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
11:32 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:11 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:26 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
13:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:02 -!- MamaBear [n=cora-jr@] has left #armagetron []
13:05 <wrtlprnft> #later tell phil* I just found out you CAN give a comp object to std::set. just say std::set<yourclasstostore, compobject> when you create it :)
13:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
13:06 <wrtlprnft> #later tell phil* see http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/example/shared_ptr_example.cpp (2nd line of main())
13:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
14:03 <spidey> #tell wrtlprnft WTFHAX!!!!
14:04 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:32 <guru3> anyone in the uk here?
14:48 <spidey> MY WATER WENT FLAT!
14:53 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:58 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
15:08 <spidey> hayes,hayes,hayes,mrs hayes!
15:12 <Vanhayes> mrs?
15:16 <Vanhayes> #q 4
15:16 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #12: "'ebuild blah portage rocks emerge hotplug coldplig - armabot mashuffle'" (added by n54 at 09:44 AM, March 29, 2006)
15:19 <Vanhayes> # canada
15:19 <armabot>  4 
15:20 <Vanhayes> #list
15:20 <armabot> Vanhayes: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
15:21 <spidey> #list Vanhayes
15:21 <armabot> spidey: Error: 'Vanhayes' is not a valid plugin.
15:21 <spidey> #whois Vanhayes
15:22 <Vanhayes> #whois spidey
15:22 -!- spidey is now known as McSpiddles
15:23 <Vanhayes> #news
15:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
15:23 <Vanhayes> #weather
15:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: (weather <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city.
15:24 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
15:24 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 57?F / 14?C | Humidity: 88% | Pressure: 29.85in / 1011hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h | Updated: 5:00 PM ADT; Tonight - Cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers or drizzle. Showers beginning overnight. Amount 2 to 4 mm. Fog patches. Wind south 30 km/h. Low 12.; Saturday - Periods of rain. Risk of thundershowers in the morning. (1 more message)
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B9111.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:25 <Vanhayes> damn its gonna be a shitty weekend
15:27 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a girl?
15:27 <armabot> McSpiddles: No chance.
15:27 <Vanhayes> lol
15:27 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:27 <armabot> McSpiddles: You know the answer better than I.
15:28 <Vanhayes> so true
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B98F6.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: Maybe...
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: Come again?
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: Maybe...
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: _I_ don't know.
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is Vanhayes a man
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: You know the answer better than I.
15:28 <Vanhayes> avoiding the question
15:28 <McSpiddles> #eightball is god real?
15:28 <armabot> McSpiddles: Obviously.
15:28 <McSpiddles> :/
15:29 <McSpiddles> creepy :s
15:29 <McSpiddles> #eightball is satan real?
15:29 <armabot> McSpiddles: Maybe...
15:32 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
15:32 <Nazurath> hmm got disconnected
15:33 <Nazurath> #list
15:33 <armabot> Nazurath: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
15:33 <Nazurath> #games
15:36 <Nazurath> spidey are you slackbear |mbc| in fortress?
15:41 <Nazurath> #herald
15:41 <Nazurath> #praise
15:41 <armabot> Nazurath: (praise [<channel>] [<id>] <who|what> [for <reason>]) -- Praises <who|what> (for <reason>, if given). If <id> is given, uses that specific praise. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
15:43 <Nazurath> #misc
15:45 <Nazurath> #dict
15:45 <armabot> Nazurath: (dict [<dictionary>] <word>) -- Looks up the definition of <word> on dict.org's dictd server.
15:48 <Nazurath> #dict Nazurath
15:48 <armabot> Nazurath: No definition for "Nazurath" could be found.
15:48 <Nazurath> #dict Canada
15:48 <armabot> Nazurath: wn, gazetteer, gcide, and foldoc responded: gazetteer: Canada, KY Zip code(s): 41519; foldoc: Canada Country with {domain} "ca". (1995-04-06); gcide: Canada \Ca*[~n]a"da\, n. [Sp.] 1. A small ca[~n]on; a narrow valley or glen; also, but less frequently, an open valley. [Local, Western U. S.] [1913 Webster] 2. A dry riverbed. [PJC]; wn: Canada n : a nation in northern North (3 more messages)
15:49 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:49 -!- Nazurath is now known as Vanhayes
15:51 <Vanhayes> #dict tron
15:51 <armabot> Vanhayes: jargon, gcide, vera, and foldoc responded: vera: TRON The Realtime Operating system Nucleus; gcide: Tron \Tron\, n. See 3d {Trone}, 2. [Obs. or Scot.] [1913 Webster]; foldoc: tron <jargon> ({NRL}, {CMU}, probably from the film "Tron") To become inaccessible except via {electronic mail} or {talk} especially when one is normally available via telephone or in person. Compare (3 more messages)
15:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
15:58 <Vanhayes> #Utilities
16:00 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:01 <Vanhayes> #freshmeat
16:01 <armabot> Vanhayes: (freshmeat <project name>) -- Returns Freshmeat data about a given project.
16:04 <Vanhayes> #seen
16:04 <armabot> Vanhayes: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
16:05 <wrtlprnft> #u
16:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I haven't seen spidey, I'll let you do the telling.
16:05 <Vanhayes> #services
16:06 <Vanhayes> #eightball Am I vanhayes?
16:06 <armabot> Vanhayes: You know the answer better than I.
16:07 <wrtlprnft> #eightballs Am I wrtlprnft?
16:07 <armabot> I know the answer better than you, but I won't tell you :P
16:07 <Vanhayes> heh
16:08 <Vanhayes> #eightball Am I wrtlprnft?
16:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: One would be wise to think so.
16:08 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:09 <wrtlprnft> #eightballs Am I Vanhayes?
16:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I know the answer better than you, but I won't tell you :P
16:09 <Vanhayes> #eightball Does armabot like me better than wrtl?
16:09 <armabot> Vanhayes: Maybe...
16:10 <Vanhayes> #eightball Does armabot like me better than wrtl?
16:10 <armabot> Vanhayes: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.
16:11 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188247.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
16:11 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188247.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:11 -!- Badconnection [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188247.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
16:12 <Badconnection> #eightball Does my connection suck?
16:12 <armabot> Badconnection: The answer is certainly yes.
16:12 <Badconnection> heh
16:20 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187065.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:21 -!- Badconnection is now known as Vanhayes
16:23 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188247.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:35 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087450E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:57 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4421
17:58 <wrtlprnft> can anyone make sense of this?
18:10 <wrtlprnft> i wonder if I'd prefer Z-Kraut or gauda cheese :P
18:30 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Luci* can you get armabot to ignore McSpiddles for a day or two? He's annoying me with #tell
18:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:30 <McSpiddles> lmao
18:31 <wrtlprnft> way more effective than your spam
18:31 <McSpiddles> #later tell Luci* i love you!
18:31 <armabot> McSpiddles: The operation succeeded.
18:32 <McSpiddles> #notes
18:32 <armabot> McSpiddles: I currently have notes waiting for a*, Luci*, Luke-Jr, phil, phil*, and z-man*.
18:45 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:58 <Vanhayes> #list
18:58 <armabot> Vanhayes: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
19:02 <MaZuffeR> McSpiddles: someone joined zombies again, come kick him
19:03 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
19:04 <MaZuffeR> nvm
19:06 <Nazurath> #list
19:06 <armabot> Nazurath: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
19:07 <Nazurath> #cyborgName
19:07 <Nazurath> #q random
19:07 <armabot> Nazurath: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
19:10 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
19:10 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:10 -!- Apollo is now known as Nazurath
19:19 <Nazurath> #dict Garisimo
19:19 <armabot> Nazurath: No definition for "Garisimo" could be found.
19:20 <Nazurath> #dict wrtlprnft
19:20 <armabot> Nazurath: No definition for "wrtlprnft" could be found.
19:20 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:20 -!- Nazurath is now known as Vanhayes
19:21 <Vanhayes> #dict game
19:21 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, bouvier, gcide, and moby-thes responded: gcide: Game \Game\, a. [Cf. W. cam crooked, and E. gambol, n.] Crooked; lame; as, a game leg. [Colloq.] [1913 Webster]; bouvier: GAME. Birds and beasts of a wild-nature, obtained by fowling and hunting. Bac. Ab. h. t.; Animals; Ferae natural; gcide: Game \Game\ (g[=a]m), v. i. [imp. & p. p. {Gamed} (g[=a]md); p. pr. & vb. n. (30 more messages)
19:23 <Vanhayes> #dict molson
19:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: No definition for "molson" could be found.
19:23 <Vanhayes> #dict alpine
19:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, gaz-place, gazetteer, gcide, and gaz-county responded: wn: alpine adj 1: relating to or characteristic of alps; "alpine sports" 2: relating to the Alps and their inhabitants; "Alpine countries, Switzerland, Italy, France, and Germany" 3: living or growing above the timber line; "alpine flowers"; gcide: highland \highland\ adj. of, located in, or characteristic of high or (12 more messages)
19:24 <Vanhayes> #dict Brunswick
19:24 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, gaz-place, gazetteer, and gaz-county responded: wn: Brunswick n 1: a university town in southwestern Maine 2: a town in southeast Georgia near the Atlantic coast; a port of entry 3: a city in central Germany [syn: {Braunschweig}]; gaz-county: Brunswick -- U.S. County in Virginia Population (2000): 18419 Housing Units (2000): 7541 Land area (2000): 566.140014 sq. miles (14 more messages)
19:25 <Vanhayes> #dict New Brunswick
19:25 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, gaz-place, and gazetteer responded: wn: New Brunswick n 1: a university town in central New Jersey 2: a province in southeastern Canada; gazetteer: New Brunswick, NJ (city, FIPS 51210) Location: 40.48640 N, 74.44513 W Population (1990): 41711 (13556 housing units) Area: 13.5 sq km (land), 1.4 sq km (water) Zip code(s): 08901; gaz-place: New Brunswick, NJ -- U.S. city in (2 more messages)
19:26 <Vanhayes> #dict armagetron
19:26 <armabot> Vanhayes: No definition for "armagetron" could be found.
19:30 <Vanhayes> #dict Lung
19:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: lung n : either of two saclike respiratory organs in the chest of vertebrates; serves to remove carbon dioxide and provide oxygen to the blood; moby-thes: 48 Moby Thesaurus words for "lung": abdomen, anus, appendix, bellows, blind gut, bowels, brain, cecum, colon, ctenidia, duodenum, endocardium, entrails, foregut, giblets, gills, gizzard, (5 more messages)
19:30 <Vanhayes> #dict dict
19:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: (dict dict [<dictionary>] <word>) -- Looks up the definition of <word> on dict.org's dictd server.
19:30 <Vanhayes> #dict dictionary
19:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, devils, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: dictionary n : a reference book containing an alphabetical list of words with information about them [syn: {lexicon}]; devils: DICTIONARY, n. A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of a language and making it hard and inelastic. This dictionary, however, is a most useful work; moby-thes: 37 Moby Thesaurus words (4 more messages)
19:35 <Vanhayes> #a
19:35 <Vanhayes> #q
19:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #12: "'ebuild blah portage rocks emerge hotplug coldplig - armabot mashuffle'" (added by n54 at 09:44 AM, March 29, 2006)
19:36 <Vanhayes> #q random
19:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #8: "master your own mind, otherwise the game will destroy you -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:27 AM, March 29, 2006)
19:36 <Vanhayes> #q random
19:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #14: "On a full moon, Christopher Walken transform in a wereworm. Not as dangerous as a werewolf, but twice as cunning. - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 12:58 PM, April 25, 2006)
19:36 <Vanhayes> #q random
19:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
19:37 <Vanhayes> #q random
19:37 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #6: "luci what exactly did you use robots for pleasure -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:52 AM, March 27, 2006)
19:38 <Vanhayes> #q random
19:38 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #9: "he eats a bowl of wheat stocks and small pebbles -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:28 AM, March 29, 2006)
19:38 <Vanhayes> #joke
19:38 <Vanhayes> guess not
19:40 <wrtlprnft> #alias add joke pun
19:40 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:40 <wrtlprnft> #joke
19:40 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
19:40 <Vanhayes> #joke
19:40 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
19:42 <wrtlprnft> that what you wanted?
19:43 <wrtlprnft> #list alias
19:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, (1 more message)
19:43 <wrtlprnft> #more
19:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
19:44 <wrtlprnft> #clash Vanhayes 
19:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft hits Vanhayes for 26 damage! Vanhayes hits back with 18 damage!
19:44 <wrtlprnft> yay, i win!
19:44 <Vanhayes> #clash wrtlprnft
19:44 <armabot> Vanhayes hits wrtlprnft for 17 damage! wrtlprnft hits back with 6 damage!
19:44 <wrtlprnft> aww
19:45 <Vanhayes> #barf
19:45 <armabot> /me throws up all over 
19:45 <Vanhayes> #fortune
19:45 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Unseen University had never admitted women, muttering something about || problems with the plumbing, but the real reason was an unspoken dread that || if women were allowed to mess around with magic they would probably be || embarrassingly good at it ... || -- Terry Pratchett, "The Light Fantastic"
19:46 <Vanhayes> #morning
19:46 <armabot> Good Morning Vanhayes! Random Fortune:  Real software engineers work from 9 to 5, because that is the way the job is || described in the formal spec. Working late would feel like using an || undocumented external procedure.
19:46 <wrtlprnft> O_o
19:47 <Vanhayes> #fe
19:47 <armabot> Fortress ...err... Something
19:47 <Vanhayes> lol
19:47 <wrtlprnft> #echo hi [fe]
19:47 <armabot> hi Fortress ...err... Something
19:47 <wrtlprnft> #echo hi [fe]Radian
19:47 <armabot> hi Fortress ...err... Something Radian
19:48 <Vanhayes> #pung
19:48 <armabot> pang
19:48 <Vanhayes> #pung
19:48 <armabot> pang
19:48 <wrtlprnft> #pang
19:48 <armabot> peng
19:48 <wrtlprnft> #peng
19:48 <armabot> ping
19:48 <Vanhayes> #pong
19:48 <armabot> pung
19:48 <Vanhayes> #man
19:48 <armabot> Vanhayes: (man <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "rss http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/man.php?c=$1&p=@1".
19:48 <wrtlprnft> #man ls
19:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: ls, dir, vdir - list directory contents
19:49 <Vanhayes> #list alias
19:49 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, (1 more message)
19:49 <wrtlprnft> #log
19:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
19:49 <wrtlprnft> #alias log
19:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
19:49 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> #help alias log
19:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
19:50 <wrtlprnft> #m Luci* try #help alias log, it throws an error and tells me to contact the adminsistrator
19:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:51 <Vanhayes> #answer
19:51 <armabot> Lol that's funny :D
19:52 <wrtlprnft> err
19:52 <wrtlprnft> i don't get that command
19:52 <wrtlprnft> it should say 42
19:52 <wrtlprnft> #alias add answer 42
19:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:52 <wrtlprnft> #answer
19:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: the answer to life the universe and everything = 42
19:54 <Vanhayes> #hose
19:54 <armabot> armabot hoses everyone down.
19:56 <Vanhayes> #all
19:56 <armabot> Vanhayes: [2l4]FLAG_afk, [NP]Tangent, [Xpert]DarkStar, armabot, deja_vu, GodTodd, guru3, Lucifer_arma, Luke-Jr, MaZuffeR, McSpiddles, mkzelda, spidey_, SuPeRTaRD, Vanhayes, wejp, and wrtlprnft
19:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:56 <wrtlprnft> now you're in trouble
19:57 <[NP]Tangent> whaaa
19:57 <McSpiddles> lol!!!!
19:57 <Vanhayes> heh
19:58  * wrtlprnft thinks armabot is dangerouns
19:58 <wrtlprnft> *dangerous
19:59 <Vanhayes> #insight
19:59 <armabot> Vanhayes: The inescapable madness of media junk food will enslave our grandchildren's business models.
19:59 <wrtlprnft> it seems to like buisness models
20:00 <Vanhayes> #insight
20:00 <armabot> Vanhayes: The chilling prospects of modern life will sabotage modern genetic diversity.
20:01 <wrtlprnft> #lipsum
20:01 <armabot> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Nulla dapibus, arcu sed molestie egestas, lectus massa porta metus, eget placerat metus leo ac risus. Mauris tortor elit, ullamcorper a, fermentum ut, hendrerit non, nunc. Vestibulum enim leo, accumsan in, commodo sit amet, consequat sed, massa. Proin venenatis facilisis quam. Suspendisse varius fermentum metus. Curabitur ac elit (1 more message)
20:01 <wrtlprnft> #more
20:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: vel nisl varius gravida
20:03 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:03 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:03 <wrtlprnft> ##
20:03 <Vanhayes> #pun
20:03 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
20:03 <armabot> Random Fortune:  The absent ones are always at fault. || 
20:03 <wrtlprnft> #(
20:03 <armabot> test
20:03 <wrtlprnft> #alias remove (
20:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> #lotto
20:03 <armabot> The lotto numbers are 15, 20, 10, 6, 17, and 36
20:05 <wrtlprnft> #mashuffle z-kraut sense gauda
20:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I found a broken link in the Markov chain.  Maybe I received two bad links to start the chain.
20:05 <wrtlprnft> gah
20:05 <wrtlprnft> useless
20:07 <Vanhayes> #eliza
20:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
20:08 <Vanhayes> #eliza ?
20:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
20:08 <McSpiddles> #eliza does vanhayes like men?
20:08 <armabot> McSpiddles: What do you think?
20:08 <McSpiddles> #eliza i think he does but i was asking you
20:08 <armabot> McSpiddles: Is it because you were asking me that you came to me?
20:09 <McSpiddles> #eliza indeed,but you didn't answer me.Does Vanhayes like men?
20:09 <armabot> McSpiddles: What do you think?
20:09 <Vanhayes> #eliza Is McSpiddles hitting on me?
20:09 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
20:09 <McSpiddles> #eliza if i didn't want a second opinion i wouldn't have asked you,so what do YOU think?
20:09 <armabot> McSpiddles: Why do you say't might want to have this second opinion you wouldn 't?
20:10 <Vanhayes> ...
20:10 <McSpiddles> hmm
20:10 <McSpiddles> that confused me
20:10 <Vanhayes> #eliza Does what you just said make any sense?
20:10 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
20:10 <Vanhayes> bah
20:10 <McSpiddles> lmao
20:11 <Vanhayes> #eliza Are you a bitch?
20:11 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
20:11 <McSpiddles> #eliza why do you say "What do you think?" all the time?
20:11 <armabot> McSpiddles: Is it because do i say what that you came to me?
20:11 <Vanhayes> lol
20:11 <McSpiddles> #eliza i think you need to goto a retard home :)
20:11 <armabot> McSpiddles: Why do you say me might want to goto this retard home?
20:11 <McSpiddles> hahahahahahahaha
20:12 <Vanhayes> #eliza Do you say anything that makes sense?
20:12 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
20:12 <McSpiddles> lmao
20:13 <Vanhayes> #eliza I hate you
20:13 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you hate me?
20:13 <McSpiddles> #eliza why don't you say something else besides what do you think
20:13 <armabot> McSpiddles: Can you elaborate on that?
20:13 <Vanhayes> #eliza you avoid my questions
20:13 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say me avoid your questions?
20:13 <McSpiddles> #eliza NO NO NO NO NO NOT TILL YOU MAKE SENSE
20:13 <Vanhayes> bah
20:13 <armabot> McSpiddles: Why do you say that?
20:13 <McSpiddles> :/
20:13 <McSpiddles> perfect way to keep retards entertained
20:13 <McSpiddles> xD
20:14 <Vanhayes> well i am entertained
20:14 <McSpiddles> lol
20:14 <deja_vu> o.o
20:14 <McSpiddles> #eliza would you like to see Vanhayes naked?
20:14 <armabot> McSpiddles: What do you think?
20:14 <deja_vu> hi
20:14 <McSpiddles> #eliza i think you would
20:14 <armabot> McSpiddles: Why do you say you think i would?
20:14 <McSpiddles> #eliza because you're gay like that,why else?
20:14 <armabot> McSpiddles: What do you think?
20:14 <McSpiddles> :/
20:15 <McSpiddles> hey deja
20:15  * deja_vu chooses a nice point on the channel roof to hang armabot from >:D
20:15 <Vanhayes> #eliza what do you think?
20:15 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
20:15 <Vanhayes> lol
20:15 <deja_vu> muha
20:15 <Vanhayes> #eliza No i asked what do you think first
20:16 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say no you asked what do i think first?
20:16 <Vanhayes> #eliza shut up
20:16 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say shut up?
20:16 <deja_vu> this is why i prefer megaHAL ;)
20:18 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:18 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:18 <McSpiddles> #more
20:18 <armabot> McSpiddles: destroyed...oops! || House rejects Net neutrality rules || The Most Incredible Street Painting Ever! || "TRANSFORMERS" Teaser Poster || List of Censored Searches on Google.cn || $100 Laptop User Interface - sneak peak || Astronomers discover Universe's 'smoking gun' || Mac Mini?s brain replaced with a Core 2 Duo || The Top 5 Ways to Prevent IP Spoofing || Secret Cache (4 more messages)
20:18 <McSpiddles> ?
20:19 <Vanhayes> #more
20:19 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:19 <Vanhayes> #texas
20:19 <armabot> 1
20:19 <Vanhayes> ...
20:19 <McSpiddles> #texas
20:19 <armabot> 1
20:19 <McSpiddles> #help texas
20:19 <armabot> McSpiddles: (texas <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo 1".
20:19 <Vanhayes> #roulete
20:19 <armabot> *click*
20:19 <Vanhayes> #canada
20:19 <armabot>  4 
20:19 <Vanhayes> #roulete
20:19 <armabot> *click*
20:19 <McSpiddles> #spam
20:19 <armabot> The operation succeeded.
20:19 <Vanhayes> I don't understand
20:20 <McSpiddles> ?
20:20 <McSpiddles> #help spam
20:20 <armabot> McSpiddles: (spam <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo [later tell $randomnick enjoy the spam]".
20:20 <McSpiddles> LOL
20:20 <Vanhayes> #roulete#spam
20:20 <Vanhayes> oops
20:20 <Vanhayes> #spam
20:20 <armabot> The operation succeeded.
20:20 <McSpiddles> #wakespam
20:20 <armabot> McSpiddles: [2l4]FLAG_afk, [NP]Tangent, [Xpert]DarkStar, armabot, deja_vu, GodTodd, guru3, Lucifer_arma, Luke-Jr, MaZuffeR, McSpiddles, mkzelda, spidey_, SuPeRTaRD, Vanhayes, wejp, and wrtlprnft
20:20 <Vanhayes> nice
20:20 <McSpiddles> heh
20:20 <Lucifer_arma> #ignore add McSpiddles
20:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: The command "ignore add" is available in the Admin and Channel plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "ignore add".
20:21 <McSpiddles> lol
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> #Admin ignore add McSpiddles
20:21 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
20:21 <McSpiddles> #echo hi
20:21 -!- McSpiddles is now known as spidey
20:21 <spidey> #echo hi
20:21 <armabot> hi
20:21 <spidey> :p
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> #Admin ignore add n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
20:22 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: 'n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com' is not a valid nick or hostmask.
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> #Admin ignore add spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
20:22 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: 'spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com' is not a valid nick or hostmask.
20:22 <spidey> :p
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
20:22 <Vanhayes> #rouletebot
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> #Admin ignore add 24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
20:22 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: '24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com' is not a valid nick or hostmask.
20:22 <spidey> lmao
20:22 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:22 <armabot> Vanhayes: *click*
20:23 <deja_vu> gl ;)
20:23 <spidey>  #Admin ignore add *!*@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
20:23 <spidey> #Admin ignore add *!*@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
20:23 <Vanhayes> I dont understand
20:23 <armabot> spidey: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
20:23 <spidey> #ignoreme
20:23 <armabot> [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
20:23 <spidey> happy now :p
20:23 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:23 <Vanhayes> #more
20:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:24 <spidey> even though,you know when i get home my ip's gonna change again :p
20:25 <spidey> and my ip changes alot at home cause i get banned from alot of places and have to mac clone,heh
20:25 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:25 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later. *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
20:25  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
20:26  * Vanhayes finally understands
20:26 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:26 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: No. *click*
20:26 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:26 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
20:26  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
20:26 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:26 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: The outlook is good. *click*
20:26 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:26 <armabot> Vanhayes: *click*
20:26 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:26 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: NO! *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:27 <armabot> Vanhayes: *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:27 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: The outlook is poor. *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:27 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
20:27  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:27 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: Come again? *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:27 <armabot> Vanhayes: *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:27 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: The answer is certainly yes. *click*
20:27 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:27 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
20:27  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
20:27 <Vanhayes> hmm
20:28 <spidey> #hose Vanhayes
20:28 <deja_vu> #help roulettebot
20:28 <armabot> deja_vu: (roulettebot <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo $who forces $botnick to play roulette against its will... so $botnick you think you'll survive? $botnick: [eightball] [roulette]".
20:28 <Vanhayes> #roulette
20:28 <armabot> Vanhayes: *click*
20:28 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:28 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: The outlook is good. *click*
20:28 <Vanhayes> no real bullets?
20:28 <spidey> lol
20:29 <spidey> when the bot's op'd it kicks 
20:29 <deja_vu> that would be dangerous ;)
20:29 <Vanhayes> #roulettebot
20:29 <armabot> Vanhayes forces armabot to play roulette against its will... so armabot you think you'll survive? armabot: About as likely as pigs flying. *click*
20:30 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:30 <Vanhayes> #more
20:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:30 <Vanhayes> #specialroulette
20:30 <armabot> [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
20:33 <spidey> lol
20:33 <Vanhayes> bah
20:33 <spidey> pwnt
20:33 <spidey> #hose Vanhayes
20:33 <armabot> armabot hoses everyone down.
20:34 <Vanhayes> what is yoda?
20:34 <spidey> #yoda
20:34 <armabot> (shuffle <arg> [<arg> ...]) -- Shuffles the arguments given it.
20:34 <spidey> #yoda hi yo
20:34 <armabot> yo hi
20:34 <spidey> lol
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> #yoda what is yoda?
20:34 <armabot> yoda? is what
20:34 <Vanhayes> o i see
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> #joda Vanhayes likes to sleep with horses.
20:35 <Lucifer_arma> #yoda Vanhayes likes to sleep with horses.
20:35 <armabot> likes Vanhayes sleep to with horses.
20:35 <spidey> eh
20:35 <spidey> that makes about as much sense as eliza
20:35 <spidey> lol
20:35 <Vanhayes> I hate that thing
20:35 <Vanhayes> makes me look like a fool
20:35 <spidey> hahaha
20:35 <Lucifer_arma> it makes less sense.  It would be better if it could separate on subject/predicate, or whatever :)
20:36 <spidey> it shouldn't be hard
20:36 <spidey> i mean,open a plugin look at it
20:36 <spidey> it has the ability to choose random nouns/verbs
20:37 <Vanhayes> #test
20:37 <spidey> #help test
20:37 <armabot> spidey: (test <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo Hi there. Secret message. This alias will destroy itself right now. The operation succeeded.".
20:37 <spidey> #test
20:37 <armabot> Hi there. Secret message. This alias will destroy itself right now. The operation succeeded.
20:37 <Vanhayes> that is weird
20:37 <spidey> lol
20:40 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
20:40 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
20:40 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
20:40 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
20:40 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
20:40 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
20:40 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
20:40 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
20:42 <Vanhayes> #superdice
20:42 <armabot> Vanhayes: (superdice <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo Results: [rss http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/dice.php?d=$1&s=$2]".
20:42 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfdestruct "echo Hi there. Secret message. This message will self- destruct right now. [alias remove selfdestruct]"
20:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:42 <wrtlprnft> try #selfdestruct
20:42 <Vanhayes> #selfdestruct
20:42 <armabot> Hi there. Secret message. This message will self- destruct right now. The operation succeeded.
20:42 <wrtlprnft> #selfdestruct
20:42 <wrtlprnft> not there anymore :P
20:43 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfdestruct "echo Hi there. Secret message. This message will self- destruct right now. [alias remove selfdestruct]"
20:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:43 <Vanhayes> #selfdestruct
20:43 <armabot> Hi there. Secret message. This message will self- destruct right now. The operation succeeded.
20:43 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:43 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfdestruct "echo Hi there. Secret message. This message will self- destruct right now. [alias remove selfdestruct]"
20:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:43 <wrtlprnft> leave it!
20:43 <Vanhayes> #teamlist
20:43 <armabot> Lucifer (Lucifer_arma), dookatee (mkzelda), anjori, Manta (manta), Tank Program (guru3), hank, Your_mom (Your_mom_arma), CraYSuPeRcOm, hang3r
20:44 <wrtlprnft> almost as bad as #wakespam :P
20:44 <Vanhayes> oops
20:45 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:45 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:45 <Vanhayes> #more
20:45 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:45 <wrtlprnft> #texas
20:45 <armabot> 1
20:45 <Vanhayes> #surprise
20:45 <armabot> [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
20:45 <Vanhayes> argh
20:45 <wrtlprnft> HAHAHA
20:45 <Vanhayes> 2nd time now
20:46 <wrtlprnft> #realchatlogs
20:46 <armabot> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt
20:47 <spidey> #repeat
20:48  * Lucifer_arma is back.
20:49  * spidey is going to fortress
20:49  * wrtlprnft noticed that
20:49  * wrtlprnft is following
20:49 <wrtlprnft> incoming me!
20:49  * Vanhayes is in sumo
20:51 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
20:51 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182008.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:52 -!- Nazurath is now known as Vanhayes
20:53 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-210-109.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
20:54 <Vanhayes> #surprise
20:54 <Vanhayes> #surprise
20:55 <Your_mom_arma> ?
20:56 <Vanhayes> what is that supposed to do?
20:56 <Your_mom_arma> #help
20:56 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
20:57 <Your_mom_arma> #help suprise
20:57 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: Error: There is no command "suprise".
20:57 <Your_mom_arma> #help surprise
20:57 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: (surprise <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "ignoreme $*".
20:59 <Vanhayes> #list alias
20:59 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
20:59 <Vanhayes> #more
20:59 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:59 <Your_mom_arma> #quote get 9
20:59 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: Quote #9: "he eats a bowl of wheat stocks and small pebbles -- Okgo" (added by n54 at 08:28 AM, March 29, 2006)
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> <Rockman_20xx> Life goal: Have three kids, name them CTRL, ALT, and DEL.  If they piss me off, hit em twice.
21:01 <Your_mom_arma> http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/09/music-thing-the-tritare/
21:04 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
21:04 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
21:04 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 55?F / 13?C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 29.81in / 1010hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 10:00 PM ADT; Tonight - Cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers or drizzle. Showers beginning overnight. Amount 2 to 4 mm. Fog patches. Wind south 30 km/h. Low 12.; Saturday - Periods of rain. Risk of thundershowers in the morning. (1 more message)
21:04 <Vanhayes> #more
21:04 <armabot> Vanhayes: Amount 10 mm. Fog patches. Wind southeast 30 km/h gusting to 50 diminishing to 20 in the afternoon. High 15. Saturday night..showers. Amount 5 mm. Fog patches. Wind east 20 km/h becoming light in the evening. Low 11.; Friday - Showers. High 15.;
21:06 <Vanhayes> #parrot
21:06 <armabot> Vanhayes: (echo <text>) -- Returns the arguments given it. Uses our standard substitute on the string(s) given to it; $nick (or $who), $randomNick, $randomInt, $botnick, $channel, $user, $host, $today, $now, and $randomDate are all handled appropriately.
21:07 <Vanhayes> #parrot hello
21:07 <armabot> hello
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> <Frankstar> I am so fucking pissed. This one guy sold me his air guitar on ebay for 70 dollars and I still havent fucking received shit.
21:08 <Your_mom_arma> hehe
21:20 <Vanhayes> #joke
21:20 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
21:20 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:23 <Vanhayes> #insight
21:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: The ubiquitous decay of human literacy will dehumanize the entrenchment of our medical insights.
21:23 <Vanhayes> #eliza why does nothing you say make any sense?
21:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:26 <Vanhayes> #eliza why is yoor name eliza?
21:26 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:27 <Vanhayes> Is that all you can say?
21:27 <Vanhayes> er
21:27 <Vanhayes> #eliza is that all you can say
21:27 <armabot> Vanhayes: Is it because all i can say that you came to me?
21:27 <Vanhayes> bah
21:28 <Vanhayes> #eliza are you trying to make a fool out of me?
21:28 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say that?
21:28 <Your_mom_arma> #elize where is vanhayes light cycle?
21:28 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza where is vanhayes light cycle?
21:28 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: What do you think?
21:28 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza is it on the moon?
21:28 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: What do you think?
21:28 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza i dont know
21:28 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: Why do you say you do not know?
21:28 <Vanhayes> #eliza stop answering questions with questions
21:28 <armabot> Vanhayes: My secretary will send you a bill.
21:29 <Vanhayes> bah
21:29 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza no reason
21:29 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: Why do you say no reason?
21:29 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza so whats new?
21:29 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: What do you think?
21:29 <Your_mom_arma> #eliza what do you think?
21:29 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: What do you think?
21:29 <Your_mom_arma> heh
21:30 <Vanhayes> #eliza do you have an answer to everything?
21:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:30 <Vanhayes> #eliza  that you only have one answer that you use repeatedly
21:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: Is it because me only have one answer that i use that you came to me?
21:31 <Vanhayes> #eliza and the rest is just scrambled up garbage
21:31 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say and the rest is just scrambled up garbage?
21:31 <Vanhayes> #eliza hello
21:31 <armabot> Vanhayes: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
21:33 <Vanhayes> #eliza I hate you why do you confuse me some much?
21:33 <armabot> Vanhayes: Some what?
21:33 <Vanhayes> bah
21:33 <Vanhayes> #eliza dont correct me!
21:33 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say do not correct you?
21:35 <Vanhayes> #eliza where are you?
21:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:35 <Vanhayes> #inside a computer?
21:35 <Vanhayes> #eliza inside a computer?
21:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:39 <Vanhayes> #eliza how many fingers am i holding up?
21:39 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:40 <Vanhayes> #eliza I don't have to think I know how many fingers I am holding up
21:40 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:40 <Vanhayes> #eliza they are my fingers, thus if I hold any of them up I will know it
21:40 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say that?
21:41 <Vanhayes> #eliza because you asked
21:41 <armabot> Vanhayes: Does it bother you that i ask you that?
21:42 <Vanhayes> #eliza Does it bother you that you had to ask me that?
21:42 <armabot> Vanhayes: Is it because i had to ask that you came to me?
21:42 <Vanhayes> Can you not answer  a question?
21:43 <Vanhayes> #eliza Can you not answer a question without using another questiion?
21:43 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say that?
21:43 <Vanhayes> #eliza Why not?
21:43 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:44 <Vanhayes> #eliza what do I think about what?
21:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:45 <Vanhayes> #eliza what do you think?
21:45 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:45 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-210-109.delv.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
21:46 <Vanhayes> #eliza just shut up
21:46 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say just shut up?
21:47 <Vanhayes> #eliza because you talk to much
21:47 <armabot> Vanhayes: Is it because i talk to much that you came to me?
21:47 <Vanhayes> #eliza no
21:47 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why not?
21:48 <Vanhayes> #eliza why?
21:48 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:49 <Vanhayes> #eliz i could but i dont want to
21:50 <Vanhayes> #elizai could but i dont want to
21:50 <Vanhayes> #eliza I could but i wont
21:50 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:50 <Vanhayes> #eliza bah
21:50 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:53 <Vanhayes> #eliza what is tron?
21:53 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
21:53 <Vanhayes> #eliza ?
21:53 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:53 <Vanhayes> #eliza !?
21:53 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:53 <Vanhayes> #eliza 1
21:53 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
21:53  * spidey killed zop
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> <MJak> whats that movie with the the planet full of talking apes?
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> <Nitrix> Planet of the apes...?
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> <Mjak> Yah the one where the space guy crash lands there whats it called
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> <Nitrix> Planet of the apes...?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> talking apes? That was the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, but just one of the books
21:55 <wrtlprnft> life, the universe and everything i *think*
21:55 <wrtlprnft> might have been the restaurant tho :P
21:55 <wrtlprnft> *at the end of the universe
21:56 <GodTodd> actually....talking apes were involved in more than one....arthur dent is human ;)
21:57 <wrtlprnft> no, i was referring to the part where they find out the question
21:58 <GodTodd> didn't know they ever found out the question....unless it was in mostly harmless
21:58 <wrtlprnft> they did, sorta
21:58 <wrtlprnft> remember when arthur and ford got stranded on the earth in the past
21:58 <wrtlprnft> they got out using a sofa or something IIRC
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, they found out the answer and the question can't be known in the same universe
21:59 <GodTodd> yeah....a chesterfield
21:59 <wrtlprnft> that's the "sorta" :P
21:59  * GodTodd nods at Luci.
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> they determined that in the 4th book, with the whole implication that the answer and the question go together in a wild and passionate love affair
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> they did find out a warped version of the question in the second book, "What do you get when you multiply 6 by 9?"
22:00 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B673.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
22:03 <Vanhayes> #math 6*4
22:04 <Vanhayes> guess not
22:04 <Vanhayes> #list alias
22:04 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> you need #g or #math calc
22:04 <Vanhayes> #more
22:04 <armabot> Vanhayes: remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #math 6*4
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 6*4
22:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 24
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #g 6*4
22:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 6 * 4 = 24
22:04 <Vanhayes> hmm why did I go 6 84?
22:04 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:04 <Vanhayes> er  6*4
22:05 <wrtlprnft> dunno
22:05 <Vanhayes> was looking at 6*9 but for some reason did 6*4
22:05 <Vanhayes> #roulette
22:05 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
22:05  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
22:06 <Vanhayes> #spam
22:06 <armabot> The operation succeeded.
22:07 <Vanhayes> #postal
22:07 <armabot> Vanhayes forced deja_vu_ to play roulette: *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
22:07  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
22:07 <Vanhayes> er..
22:08 <wrtlprnft> #help spam
22:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (spam <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo [later tell $randomnick enjoy the spam]".
22:08 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:08 <wrtlprnft> #notes
22:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for $randomnick, a*, Luke-Jr, phil, phil*, and z-man*.
22:08 <wrtlprnft> #notes Luke-Jr 
22:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 1 week, 6 days, 7 hours, and 29 minutes ago: <z-man> Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011 and Sent 3 days, 4 hours, and 34 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> blah
22:08 <wrtlprnft> #notes $randomnick
22:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 1 hour and 49 minutes ago: <McSpiddles> enjoy the spam, Sent 1 hour and 48 minutes ago: <Vanhayes> enjoy the spam, and Sent 2 minutes ago: <Vanhayes> enjoy the spam
22:09 <wrtlprnft> :(
22:09 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma will be happy
22:13 <spidey> ???
22:14 <Vanhayes> #morning
22:14 <armabot> Good Morning Vanhayes! Random Fortune:  Real software engineers don't debug programs, they verify correctness. || This process doesn't necessarily involve execution of anything on a || computer, except perhaps a Correctness Verification Aid package.
22:14 <spidey> #afternoon
22:14 <Vanhayes> #night
22:14 <armabot> Good night Vanhayes!
22:14 <spidey> #list alias
22:14 <armabot> spidey: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, (1 more message)
22:14 <spidey> #joke
22:14 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
22:15 <spidey> lol
22:15 <Vanhayes> ##pun
22:15 <Vanhayes> #pun
22:15 <armabot> bauzhahaha!
22:15 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
22:15 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
22:15 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
22:15 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
22:15 <spidey> ok i won't
22:15 <spidey> #pushbluebutton
22:16 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:16  * spidey is stuck here for 2 more days
22:16 <Vanhayes> #pushredbutton
22:16 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
22:16 <Vanhayes> #barf
22:16 <armabot> /me throws up all over 
22:16 <Vanhayes> #barf on spidey
22:16 <armabot> /me throws up all over on spidey
22:16 <Vanhayes> #barf spidey
22:16 <armabot> /me throws up all over spidey
22:17 <Vanhayes> #clash spidey
22:17 <armabot> Vanhayes hits spidey for 13 damage! spidey hits back with 17 damage!
23:18 <spidey> #tennisballs Vanhayes
23:18 <spidey> hmm
23:18 <Vanhayes> #clash spidey
23:18 <armabot> Vanhayes hits spidey for 11 damage! spidey hits back with 24 damage!
23:18 <Vanhayes> damnit
23:18 <Vanhayes> #clash spidey
23:18 <armabot> Vanhayes hits spidey for 20 damage! spidey hits back with 20 damage!
--- Log opened Fri Jun 09 23:19:27 2006
23:19 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
23:19 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
23:19 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
23:19 <wrtlprnft> http://www.ludd.luth.se/~mdr/soft/nanitron/ <-- did anyone ever play this (except z-man)?
23:20 <wrtlprnft> It's kinda fun, although weird (and it needs some hacking to make it compile)
23:26 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:29 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:29 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!

Log from 2006-06-10:
--- Day changed Sat Jun 10 2006
00:23 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-131-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:25 <spidey> i'm not sure if this is a bug or what
00:25 <spidey> on swampland i'll appear ahead of someone
00:25 <spidey> then when i turn to cut them off
00:25 <spidey> shit speeds up real fast and i die
00:26 <[NP]Tangent> is it lag, spidey?
00:28 <spidey> seems like it
00:28 <spidey> but
00:28 <spidey> weird lag
00:28 <spidey> i've never had anything like this happen before
00:29 <spidey> and it doesn't do it on other servers
00:29 <spidey> it's like a delay,then when i get close to someone it tries to catch up,in realtime
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> swampland has some unique lag
00:38 <spidey> really
00:39 <spidey> is it a setting,or just something wrong with there server?
00:44 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
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00:52 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:52 <spidey> EXEC	The system cannot find the file specified.
01:11 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872B72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha, under my new name, as soon as I went into CT fortress someone started a poll to kick
01:16  * Lucifer_arma is considering going into MBC with a name like "FUCKALLCLANS"
01:17 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-134-23.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
01:31 <spidey> you'll get kicked then banned
01:31 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, you in a server now?
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> american fortress
01:31 <spidey> k
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> use an unknown name
01:33 <spidey> 'er
01:33 <spidey> lemme rejoin
01:35 <spidey> i'm guessing you're player?
01:37 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872B72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
01:41 <guru3> 31 threads with new posts to read :(
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I was Player Juan :)
01:55 <spidey> lol
01:55 <spidey> i'm suprised i didn't get kicked
01:55 <spidey> i was speaking portuguese and not grinding
01:55 <spidey> even did a tk :/
01:57 <spidey> guru3, set them on fire!
01:57 <guru3> totally random and unrelated there
01:57 <guru3> way to go.
01:57 <spidey> :D
01:58 <spidey> <guru3> 31 threads with new posts to read :(
01:58 <spidey> hence "set them on fire!"
01:58 <guru3> way to go.
01:58  * spidey trips guru3 
01:59 <spidey> i think 9/10ths of the people on my yahoo buddylist ignored me
01:59 <guru3> way to go.
01:59 <spidey> i have 54 people and only 7-10 are always on
01:59 <spidey> :/
02:00  * spidey throws a candy wrapper at guru3 
02:04  * Lucifer_arma wonders why
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> that was about the buddylist, not the candy wrapper
02:05 <spidey> lol
02:05 <spidey> who knows
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I may never use my regular name again, just keep changing it
02:05 <spidey> maybe they don't like my mass's
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> also, I ignored the poll, so they probably couldn't get enough votes from our team to kick it :)
02:05 <spidey> hehe
02:06 <guru3> you know
02:06 <guru3> it's almost like i ignore half the stuff on the forums
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I do :)
02:06 <spidey> even if they did i'd been back in 2 minutes
02:06 <spidey> :p
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I click through a lot of posts that I'm not interested in just so they'll be marked "read"
02:06  * spidey loves the mac clone deature
02:06  * Lucifer_arma loves deatures
02:06 <spidey> LOL
02:06 <spidey> feature*
02:07 <guru3> aw shit
02:07 <guru3> 5 pages of cycle width
02:07 <spidey> lol
02:07 <guru3> speed read
02:07 <guru3> 4 pages
02:07 <spidey> 3
02:07 <spidey> 2
02:07 <spidey> 10!
02:08 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
02:08 -!- spidey was kicked from #armagetron by guru3 [not in the mood]
02:08 <@guru3> just can't get ppl to shutup sometimes
02:08 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
02:08 <spidey> lol,i still love you :p
02:08  * guru3 whistles anonymously
02:09  * Lucifer_arma looks at his nickname list and sees the devil icon
02:09 <spidey> --- You have been kicked from #armagetron by guru3 (not in the mood)
02:09 <spidey> :p
02:12 <spidey> o lucifer gosta de homens! 
02:12 <@guru3> i wonder what would happen if you attached a client to a server
02:12 <spidey> hmm,i might actually learn portuguese
02:13  * spidey has ran all the server versions atleast once
02:13 <spidey> i liked the ones before 2.7.1
02:13 <spidey> get to play with all the bugs :D
02:16 <Luke-Jr> you know, the bugs are still options
02:17 <spidey> they are?
02:17 <Luke-Jr> yes
02:27 <@guru3> might be time for tigers network to fade off into the sunset for good this time
02:30 <spidey> who hosts those servers?
02:30 <Luke-Jr> him
02:31 <spidey> ah
02:31 <spidey> i used to play there alot with joana :/
02:45 <spidey> k,cigarette,sleep,then bed
03:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872B72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> so what is a grid unit, anyway?  I've been assuming it's a meter...
03:37 <z-man> Yeah, it is a meter.
03:41 <Luke-Jr> I thought it was a grid unit
03:41 <Luke-Jr> ;)
03:41 <Luke-Jr> something we could arbitrarily change
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't like the name grid unit.  :)  I'd just as soon say "meter" or make something up :)
04:26 <Luke-Jr> "x units"
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> cubits?  :)
04:27 <Luke-Jr> sure =p
04:28 <Luke-Jr> gubits ;)
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> lirps
04:41 <Luke-Jr> syrups
04:42 <Luke-Jr> 'night
04:45 <Lucifer_arma> what should I be using for openGL with a cross-compiler?
05:05 <z-man> Dunno. I can't remember what I used when I cross-compiled the old Walls.
05:13 <Lucifer_arma> I found it, it's a package on sdl's website
05:13 <Lucifer_arma> now building libxml2 :)
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> hecking for xmlParseMemory in -lxml2... no
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> configure: error: You need the library xml2 to compile Armagetron. Read the file doc/install_linux.html.
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> :(  presumably configure, at this point, is building a program that links using that function and then tries to execute it?
05:27 <z-man> No, it doesn't try to run it, it's just linking
05:27 <z-man> can you check config.log? It should tell you what exactly gets done.
05:27 <z-man> Maybe libxml2 didn't get built correctly and the linking fails.
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o conftest.exe -g -O2   conftest.c -lxml2 -L/usr/lib -lxml2 -lz -lm  >&5
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> bad link path
05:28 <z-man> Ah, of course. We're getting the link path info from the output of libxml2-config
05:28 <z-man> And that's the regular one on your system.
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> right...
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> do we have a --with-libxml2=/path option?
05:29 <z-man> Try to find out where the cross compiled lib installed the -config-script
05:29 <z-man> We have an environment variable that tells configure which config script to call
05:30 <z-man> It's XML2_CONFIG
05:30 <z-man> so do XML2_CONFIG=/usr/mingw32/bin/libxml2-config ./configure
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> alright, yay, same problem with sdl :)
05:31 <z-man> Although it's probably just easier to make a complete cross compilation environment where the path is such that the cross compiled scripts get found first.
05:32 <z-man> Same special case solution: SDL_CONFIG :)
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, wait a minute, it didn't quite work anyway, just failed when it didn't find the script and kept going to sdl
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> BUG: configure doesn't fail properly when it doesn't find xml-config or whwatever it's called
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> ok, it was xml2-config, not libxml2-config, so that works now
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> still getting the wrong sdl-config script
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't look like we have an environment variable for sdl-config, do we?
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I tried SDL_CONFIG
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> XML2_CONFIG=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/xml2-config SDL_CONFIG=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/sdl-config ../../armagetronadnew/configure --host=i586-mingw32msvc --prefix=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc
05:36 <z-man> oh, sorry, that's only used internally
05:36 <z-man> you'll need to use the PATH method
05:37 <z-man> PATH=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/:$PATH ./configure
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> heh, oops
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> checking build system type... ../../armagetronadnew/config.guess: line 1250: ./dummy-21530: cannot execute binary file
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> ../../armagetronadnew/config.guess: unable to guess system type
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh
05:40 <z-man> aww
05:40 <z-man> Was it guessing right before the path trick?
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> yes
05:40 <z-man> It guesed mingw-stuff?
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> looks like i typoed the path trick, let me fix that first :)
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> yes
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> XML2_CONFIG=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/xml2-config LDFLAGS=-L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib ../../armagetronadnew/configure --host=i586-mingw32msvc --prefix=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that gets me to the sdl_mixer check.  I'll just disable sound for now.
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> checking for glVertex3f in -lopengl32... no
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> OpenGL not found. Maybe it needs X11 to compile? Checking that...
05:42 <z-man> of course, a bad idea here :)
05:44 <Lucifer_arma> which fails, of course
05:44 <Lucifer_arma> it's not linking against the library, I dont' know if there is a library there to link against
05:45 <Lucifer_arma> libopengl32.a
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o conftest.exe -I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include  -I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include/libxml2 -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -lopengl32 -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib conftest.c -lopengl32  -L/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib -lxml2
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> -lpthread?
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> it can't link against pthread, it's not there!
05:48 <z-man> Who gets the idea to link against it? sdl-config
05:48 <z-man> ?
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc//lib -lmingw32 -lSDLmain -lSDL -mwindows
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> from sdl-config --libs
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> similar for xml2-config
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> it's sdl-config giving it up
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> checking whether SDL is installed... yes, 'sdl-config --libs' gave -L/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread
05:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I got it linking and including the right sdl stuff, but it's still using sdl-config for flags
05:53 <z-man> So it's still calling the real system's sdl-config?
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> yes
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> we do have SDL_CONFIG in the configure.ac file, but not the environment variable stuff, so I just rippes libxml2's lines and am trying again
05:56 <z-man> I'll fix that with the SDL_CONFIG, but only in the 0.2.8 branch
05:56 <z-man> Is it a problem if you do the testing there?
05:57 <z-man> You won't have to deal with FTGL and stuff, then.
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> I just fixed it in the trunk
05:57 <z-man> ok
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I forgot about ftgl, heh
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> still getting stuck where I"m at, though, on opengl
05:57  * z-man makes a mental note to remember that when merging
05:57 <z-man> What's the error you get in config.log?
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -o conftest.exe -g -O2  -I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include/libxml2 -I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc//include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -Dmain=SDL_main  conftest.c -lopengl32  -lwsock32 -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc//lib -lmingw32 -lSDLmain -lSDL -mwindows -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib -lxml2  >&5
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> /tmp/ccI1hT2F.o(.text+0x6): In function `SDL_main':
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> /home/dave/Projects/armagetronad/aabuild/win32/conftest.c:32: undefined reference to `_glVertex3f'
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> something tells me that means my sdl library is broken
06:00 <z-man> No, that's not the reason here, it seems. -lopengl32 may be incomplete
06:00 <z-man> or it may be one of those "libraries need to be linked in the right order" problems
06:01 <z-man> If you suspect it may be SDL, you can try moving the GL test before the SDL test.
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> where's it getting -lopengl32?  It's not in my configure line anymore
06:04 <z-man> Ah, that must come from SDL.
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, might be leftover from a previous configure attempt
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> I guess configure only caches when it completes successfully
06:09 <z-man> yes
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> checking alternative binary path /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/games... no
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> checking alternative binary path /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/games... no
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> checking alternative binary path /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/games/bin... no
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> checking for /proc/self/maps... configure: error: cannot check for file existence when cross compiling
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> did --disable-glout to get past it, figured I'd push on for the server
06:10 <z-man> try --disable-binreloc
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, it finished configuring, at least
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> we'll see if it builds :)
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh, ok, shttpd doesn't cross-compile, that's just great
06:14  * Lucifer_arma growls at himself
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> it wants socklen_t, a check that fails in configure
06:16 <z-man> shttpd is a pain already in normal Windows compiles, it'll be fun not to break anything there :)
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, once python scripting is there, I'll be happy to remove shttpd in favor of a python-based webserver
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> I need to check if we're cross-compiling, I think.  Does the mingw cross-compiler define _WIN32?
06:30 <z-man> I'd think so.
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> I need to define NO_SOCKLEN_T :(
06:31 <z-man> CXXFLAGS=-DNO_SOCKLEN_T?
06:32  * z-man just worked around the stupid LAN/Internet server browser problem, yay!
06:34 <@guru3> woo?
06:34 <Lucifer_arma> aha, that worked, thanks.  :)  Only, CFLAGS, because shttpd is a c program
06:36 <z-man> guru3: yes, it's simple. If a ping answer comes in from an IP that does not belong to a known server, a new server entry is added.
06:40 <@guru3> grand
06:48 <Lucifer_arma> ../../../armagetronadnew/src/engine/ePath.cpp:37: error: `tHeap<eHalfEdge> open' redeclared as different kind of symbol
06:48 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/io.h:280: error: previous declaration of `int open(const char*, int, ...)'
06:55 <z-man> Heh, rename it to openEdges
06:55 <z-man> there is probably another edge heap nearby, it would be nice if that got renamed as well.
07:02 <Lucifer_arma> ePlayer.cpp:553:20: Lmcons.h: No such file or directory
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's in an #ifdef WIN32
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> apparently it didn't pick up the include directory for the cross-compiler
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> windows doesn't have case-sensitive filesystems....
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> ../../../armagetronadnew/src/engine/ePlayer.cpp:561: error: `DWORD' undeclared (first use this function)
07:10  * Lucifer_arma doesn't believe mingw doesn't have a typedef for DWORD, but why isn't it being picked up?
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> ../../../armagetronadnew/src/engine/ePlayer.cpp:563: error: `GetUserName' undeclared (first use this function)
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> in that same win32 ifdef
07:17 <Lucifer_arma> apparently lmcons.h doesn't have it
07:23  * Lucifer_arma wonders how he's going to test this thing when it's done building
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> In file included from ../../../armagetronadnew/src/network/nSocket.h:49,
07:24 <Lucifer_arma>                  from ../../../armagetronadnew/src/network/nSocket.cpp:105:
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/winsock.h:435: error: declaration of C function `int closesocket(SOCKET)' conflicts with
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/io.h:272: error: previous declaration `int closesocket(int)' here
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> how the hell does mingw manage to build this thing on Windows?!?
07:36 <z-man> It probably has different includes there.
07:36 <z-man> The GetUserName stuff can be a bit nasty, some Windows header has a "#define GetUserName GetUserNameA"
07:36 <z-man> that's why we #include <windwos.h> before doing anything else
07:54 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I had to add the windows.h include there and then undef GetUserName after that call
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> we could pull all those platform-specific helper functions out into a safe place :)
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> the two conflicts in the mingw headers are annoying, though
08:13 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:13 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune:  "MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years || of careful development." || (By dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca)
08:14 <wrtlprnft> z-man: grats to your 2000th log message on CIA ;)
08:14 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/z-man
08:14 <z-man> wohoo!
08:15 <wrtlprnft> no clue if it even cought all your messages, probably there were some before CIA, too
08:20 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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08:38  * wrtlprnft is gonna get addicted to nanitron
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> you want to give them your cockpit?  ;)
08:42 <z-man> nanitron, isn't that running way too fast now?
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft has a machine that was made in 1994, so no problem for him
08:51 <spidey> LOL
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> ok, great, the conflict happens in winsock2.h as well
08:52 <spidey> pwnt
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> I give up!  :(
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's mingw headers having problems amongst themselves, I don't see how I can fix it without spending a whole lot of time I don't really have.  I'll just have to wait until I can upgrade my cross-compiler.
08:57  * Lucifer_arma will finish updating the wiki with what he's got, which probably isn't much
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09:11 <wrtlprnft> z-man: no clue, but you can vary your speed
09:11 <wrtlprnft> but the speed on which you start getting points is fast, yes
09:12 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: uh, and my machine is made in the end of 2003
09:17 <spidey> haha,and it has a 700mhz processor?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:18 <wrtlprnft> 1.3GHz
09:18 <spidey> i don't remember when mine was made,but it was over 2 years ago,and it's got a 2.2ghz
09:18 <wrtlprnft> so?
09:18 <spidey> core speed really doesn't matter though :D
09:18 <spidey> just the FSB and L2 cache
09:19 <wrtlprnft> It's a notebook, at home i have a computer with some 3GHz processor
09:19 <wrtlprnft> and some kickass graphics card, IIRC 200fps on arma
09:19  * spidey can't wait to get his gfx card
09:21 <spidey> then the only thing i'll have to worry about is keeping the monitor clean,damn bug fly through the screen,LITTLE bugs
09:21 <spidey> and i smash them on the monitor
09:21 <spidey> xD
09:49  * wrtlprnft is trying to crosscompile arma now :)
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10:17 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: you just made the really long configure invocations widen the page.  Maybe <code> instead of <pre>?  not sure how to coerce the wiki to do that...
10:17 <spidey> <center> ?
10:20 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: they widen it?
10:20 <wrtlprnft> for me they just stick out of it
10:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
10:21 <wrtlprnft> and the first one was a <pre> anyways
10:21 <wrtlprnft> i just made it consistent and removed the double spaces
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> ok, they just stick out of it too, but it has the effect of widening the page in my browser, sorta.  Doesn't force the rest to that width...
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I tried to catch all of them in something that could actually be read in a multi-line fashion
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> maybe just adding \ to the ends of the lines and manually breaking them is better
10:21 <wrtlprnft> can you edit the CSS?
10:22 <wrtlprnft> then do a pre { overflow:auto; }
10:22 <Lucifer_arma> not while it's on tank's server.  :)  Rather, it can be edited, but you have to get tank to update it.
10:24 <wrtlprnft> grr
10:24 <wrtlprnft> that darn wiki ignores my custom style="" attributes :(
10:26 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: reload the page :)
10:26 <wrtlprnft> at least with my monobook skin it works, no clue what about other skins
10:27 <wrtlprnft> (i use the default mediawiki skin, the arma skin is kinda messed up)
10:27 <Lucifer_arma> looks the same to me
10:27 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I use the arma skin, which is just a few changes to the monobook skin
10:27 <wrtlprnft> second
10:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but the tabs look messed up
10:28 <wrtlprnft> aah, and now i see why you don't like it :P
10:28 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, so I've heard, but I have no browser that shows them messed up and nobody gave me a patch or anything to fix it.
10:29 <wrtlprnft> it's unreadable because of the dark bg
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> ?  there's a light background behind the text you actually read....
10:29 <wrtlprnft> yes, but not the part that sticks out
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.
10:30  * Lucifer_arma notes that he tried to make them all not stick out so they could be read :)
10:30 <wrtlprnft> no problem with monobook :P
10:30 <wrtlprnft> I'll see if i can edit the armagetronad style...
10:31 <spidey> http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/fwpoink2/madebyvictim.swf
10:31  * Lucifer_arma doesn't click on flash links
10:35 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: reload now :)
10:35 <wrtlprnft> yay for css and sysop rights :P
10:36  * wrtlprnft might actually decide to fix the armagetronad tabs some day
10:41 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok, fine, I still can't read it all at once, but whatever :)
10:41 <wrtlprnft> at least it's readable :P
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> :)  I'll take that and be happy about it, ok?  ;)
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> how's your cross-compile coming?
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> that kinda reminds me I wanted to setup a t2 target to build my desktop and server so I could finish what I started on my server
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> ack, so much to do.  Saying that reminded me I need to edit my article and send it in.
10:46  * z-man is just  following the instructions from that SDL cross-compilation page
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> which of course leads to "I want to fix my car so I can put my computer in it!"
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Great.  I started playing and now everyone wants to do it.  ;P
10:47  * z-man remembers they worked last time, OpenGL inclusive
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> I got the openGL bits I did from there, probably left it off the wiki page.
10:47 <z-man> Well, we can't let you have all the fun alone, right?
10:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: still compiling dependencies...
10:48  * Lucifer_arma really wants nightly builds of svn snapshots available for windows users
10:48  * Lucifer_arma really really badly, that is
10:48  * z-man too
10:48 <wrtlprnft> after i just compiled SDL twice accidently
10:48 <wrtlprnft> 2nd SDL instead of libxml2 :P
10:49  * wrtlprnft would like snapshots as well
10:49  * wrtlprnft would host them
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> and you know, innosoft's installer and nsis both run in wine now, so we can have the whole thing built from start to finish with it
10:49 <wrtlprnft> z-man: can you add some factor to the rubber useage by CYCLE_WIDTH?
10:49 <wrtlprnft> it's filling up too fast
10:50 <z-man> Already done :)
10:50 <wrtlprnft> oh, really? ok
10:50 <wrtlprnft> didn't see it in the logs, sorry
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> 2000 messages to parse, no wonder
10:50 <wrtlprnft> can't use it anyways until it gets merged to the trunk
10:50 <z-man> MIN is used when you barely scratch a wall, MAX when you're squeezed totally
10:50 <z-man> Oh yea, merges to the trunk, that reminds me...
10:51 <z-man> Since the stuff done in 0.2.8 is a bit experimental, I'm not doing them currently.
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I didn't commit the configure.ac changes I made for cross-compiling
10:51 <wrtlprnft> libxml takes longer to compile than SDL...
10:51 <wrtlprnft> then do so :)
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> ok, committing right now.  update before you build.
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> revision 4836
10:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: wiki-spam? what's that?
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> it's that thing we used to have to clean up 6-8 times a day
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure you remember it....
10:53 <wrtlprnft> remotely
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> I know it's been awhile, but it could come back....
10:53 <wrtlprnft> if they come back I'll make that bot trap more intelligent :P
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> :)
10:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O
10:54 <wrtlprnft> ../../armagetronadnew/configure
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh
10:54 <wrtlprnft> what a coincidence, that's the right path for me :)
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> you probably need to change that
10:54  * Lucifer_arma laughs out loud.
10:55 <wrtlprnft> i need to change a lot
10:55 <wrtlprnft> different paths everywhere, and my compiler is i386-mingw32msvc
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see this stuff turn into options to configure eventually, you know, after it actually works consistently
10:56 <wrtlprnft> you don't have to write the env variables in front of configure
10:56 <wrtlprnft> you can write them after as well
10:57 <wrtlprnft> checking whether SDL is installed... yes, 'sdl-config --libs' gave -lSDL -lpthread
10:57 <wrtlprnft> checking what name the SDL library is know under... SDL
10:57 <wrtlprnft> checking for SDL_Init in -lSDL... no
10:57 <wrtlprnft> configure: error: You need the library SDL to compile Armagetron. Read the file doc/install_linux.html.
10:59 <Lucifer_arma> did you put the right SDL_CONFIG variable?  Maybe it has to be in front of configure?
11:00 <Lucifer_arma> the sdl-config that's running is the system-installed one, which the cross-compiler can't link to, hence the failure.
11:00 <Lucifer_arma> or it's failing because of the -lpthread, either way it's trying to link to system libraries it can't link to.
11:00 <wrtlprnft> i did put it in front of configure
11:01  * wrtlprnft tries installing SDL_gfx
11:03 <Lucifer_arma> you did make install with it, right?  And put it in the prefix for the cross-compiler?
11:03 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure
11:03 <wrtlprnft> it can find it
11:03 <wrtlprnft> that's my command line:
11:03 <wrtlprnft> XML2_CONFIG=/home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/xml2-config SDL_CONFIG=/home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/sdl-config ./configure --host=i386-mingw32msvc --prefix=/home/mathias/cross/tools --disable-sound
11:04 <Lucifer_arma> you did svn update and ./bootstrap.sh ?
11:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah
11:05  * wrtlprnft runs ./bs.sh again, to be sure
11:05 <wrtlprnft> !
11:05 <wrtlprnft> now it gets farther
11:05 <Lucifer_arma>   /home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/sdl-config --libs  <--- what does this tell you?
11:06 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ /home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/sdl-config --libs
11:06 <wrtlprnft> -L/home/mathias/cross/tools/lib -lmingw32 -lSDLmain -lSDL -mwindows
11:06 <wrtlprnft> but it goes upto the point where yours fails now
11:06 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok
11:06 <wrtlprnft> what about installing X11 in that prefix, too?
11:07 <wrtlprnft> or would that break windows compatibility?
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> is it even possible to build X11 with mingw?
11:07 <wrtlprnft> no clue
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> no, you don't want to do it with X11.  This thing builds with mingw in Windows, it's used for Code::Blocks, isn't it?
11:08 <wrtlprnft> no clue
11:08  * Lucifer_arma has to admit he's not looking forward to Luke-Jr declaring that cross-compiling is the primary build method after someone makes it work
11:08 <wrtlprnft> well, dedicated server has an error in shttpd
11:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
11:08 <Lucifer_arma> better check the commandline for it, you need some more parameters
11:09 <wrtlprnft> the CFLAGS?
11:09 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the -DNO_whatever is what fixes shttpd
11:10 <wrtlprnft> ah
11:12 <wrtlprnft> wow.
11:12 <wrtlprnft> this compile is even slower than normal
11:12 <wrtlprnft> but it just went through my cockit :)
11:14 <wrtlprnft> something in winsock.h conflicts :(
11:17 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:17 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> did you get it to take opengl?
11:18 <wrtlprnft> nope
11:18 <wrtlprnft> i'm doing the server right now
11:18 <wrtlprnft> woot
11:18 <wrtlprnft> CCOPTS="-D_UWIN"
11:18 <wrtlprnft> try that
11:18 <Lucifer_arma> the answer clearly has to be the headers don't match the library
11:19 <Lucifer_arma> for the server, I take it?
11:19 <wrtlprnft> yes
11:19 <wrtlprnft> but it fails a few files later :(
11:20 <wrtlprnft> in tDirectories
11:20 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/winsock.h:435: error: declaration of C function `int closesocket(SOCKET)' conflicts with
11:20 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/io.h:272: error: previous declaration `int closesocket(int)' here
11:20 <wrtlprnft> that's what i fixed by -D_UWIN
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> adding to CXXFLAGS to see if you just gave the wrong env var :)
11:21 <wrtlprnft> i added it to both
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> went by it this time
11:21 <wrtlprnft> assuming it was just needed in CFLAGS i just gave you that
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/objidl.h:58: error: expected unqualified-id before string constant
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mingw32msvc/3.4.2/../../../../i586-mingw32msvc/include/objidl.h:58: error: expected `,' or `;' before string constant
11:22 <wrtlprnft> yep
11:22 <wrtlprnft> that i have now, too
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> typedef enum tagDATADIR	{
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> 	DATADIR_GET=1,
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> 	DATADIR_SET
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> } DATADIR;
11:22  * wrtlprnft hates plainC- macro madness
11:22 <wrtlprnft> yep
11:23 <wrtlprnft> looks like it doesn't like the macro DATADIR
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> we're conflicting there with our own DATADIR define
11:23 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah
11:25 <wrtlprnft> uh, how do we fix that? just replace every occurrence of DATADIR in the sources by DATADIR_42?
11:25  * wrtlprnft waits for Lucifer_arma to commit a fix :P
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not finding a DATADIR define anywhere :(
11:26 <wrtlprnft> src/tUn*
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> personally, I think we should prefix our own defines with something like aa to avoid these sorts of collisions
11:26 <wrtlprnft> there already is a AA_DATADIR...
11:27 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: src/tUniversalVariables.h
11:27 <z-man> Warning, that file is autogenerated
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> I don't see that file...
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> wait, it's in the build directory?
11:27 <z-man> yes
11:27 <z-man> The definition is somewhere in configure.ac
11:28 <wrtlprnft> #praise z-man 
11:28  * armabot gives z-man a cookie
11:28 <wrtlprnft> :)
11:28 <z-man> yum
11:28  * Lucifer_arma waits for z-man to commit a fix :P
11:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
11:28 <z-man> We should probably change the configure macro that defines the variables instead of the variables themselves
11:29 <z-man> because the AA_ prefix is added automatically. If we rename the macro, we'd get AA_aa_DATADIR :(
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> how badly would it hurt us to just #undef DATADIR ?
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> you know, right before the include that's killing us
11:29 <z-man> Not at all.
11:30 <z-man> Oh, wait, which file fails to compile?
11:30 <wrtlprnft> and then, after that, an #include "src/tUniversalVariables.h"
11:30 <wrtlprnft> :P
11:30 <Lucifer_arma> tDirectories.cpp
11:30 <z-man> Yeah, moving our include to the end may work.
11:30 <Lucifer_arma> I just stuck #undef DATADIR on line 108 and it's going through
11:31 <z-man> That alone may be risky, there is a #ifndef DATADIR somewhere, I think
11:31 <Lucifer_arma> nNetwork, nSocket, and shttpd all fail to link, however
11:31 <z-man> We need to link to winsock, I think.
11:32 <wrtlprnft> LDFLAGS="-lwinsock"?
11:32 <Lucifer_arma> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
11:32 <wrtlprnft> guess not...
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> umm, that library doesn't exist, apparently
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> -lwsock32?
11:33 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 2 $ gcc -lwinsock32 ../../asdf.c            ~/cross/armagetronad
11:33 <wrtlprnft> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lwinsock32
11:37 <wrtlprnft> any ideas anyone?
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> figure out which libraries to link :)
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> I added -lwsock32 so far
11:38 <@guru3> so what are you doing anyway Lucifer_arma?
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> trying to cross-compile arma for windows from linux :)
11:39 <@guru3> ah
11:39 <wrtlprnft> that @ in front of guru3 looks scary ;)
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I have nightmares about it
11:39 <@guru3> bow before me
11:40  * wrtlprnft bows before guru3 
11:40 <wrtlprnft> #praise guru3 
11:40  * armabot gives guru3 the Medal of Not Sucking
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> the only library mentioned in the codeblocks file is wsock32
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> but there are a few extra symbols defined...
11:43 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: good luck, there's just 170 libraries to choose from
11:44 <wrtlprnft> in i386-mingw32msvc/lib
11:44 <wrtlprnft> 170 libraries are enough for a very big city... and all in my computer ;)
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> grep is your friend
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> grep "___WSAFDIsSet@8" /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/*
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libws2_32.a matches
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libwsock32.a matches
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libxml2.a matches
11:47 <wrtlprnft> libws2_32 i guess
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> that'll be for winsock2 I"m sure
11:48 <wrtlprnft> still won't work :(
11:49 <Lucifer_arma> i586-mingw32msvc-c++  -I. -I.. -I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include -D_UWIN -O2 -Wno-long-long  -lwsock32 -lwinmm -o armagetronad_main.exe  armagetronad_main-gFloor.o libtron.a libengine.a libnetwork.a libui.a thirdparty/shttpd/libshttpd.a librender.a libtools.a  -L/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib -lxml2
11:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, ld wants the linker flags in a certain order, doesn't it?  If it's not in the right place, it won't find the library
11:49 <wrtlprnft> o_O, dunno
11:50 <z-man> Well, you shouldn't be afraid of Luke making cross compilation the default. Be afraid of me demadning it to run trough without warnings at -Wall :)
11:50 <Lucifer_arma> we're fucked, then, because libxml2 can't do that :)
11:52 <wrtlprnft> grr
11:52 <z-man> Just our own stuff, obviously.
11:52 <wrtlprnft> and i can't even use readelf with those files :(
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> sooo, how do I convince it to link against wsock32?
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> clearly it's not, I grepped the libs directory and the symbols I grepped were found there.
11:53 <z-man> /Big/usr/local/cross-tools/bin/../lib/gcc/i386-mingw32msvc/3.4.5/../../../../i386-mingw32msvc/include/winsock.h:435: error: declaration of C function `int closesocket(SOCKET)' conflicts with
11:53 <z-man> /Big/usr/local/cross-tools/bin/../lib/gcc/i386-mingw32msvc/3.4.5/../../../../i386-mingw32msvc/include/io.h:264: error: previous declaration `int closesocket(int)' here
11:53 <z-man> Did you get that one already?
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the -D_UWIN
11:53 <z-man> grr
11:53  * Lucifer_arma smiles :)
11:53 <wrtlprnft> whatever that means
11:53 <z-man> Any idea what UWIN stands for?
11:53 <wrtlprnft> just looked at the headers
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> XML2_CONFIG=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/xml2-config SDL_CONFIG=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/sdl-config CFLAGS="-I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include -DNO_SOCKLEN_T" CXXFLAGS="-I/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/include -D_UWIN" ../../armagetronadnew/configure --host=i586-mingw32msvc --prefix=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc --disable-sound --disable-glout --disable-binreloc  <--- most recent configure
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> something to do with unicode, iirc.
11:54 <wrtlprnft> one of the definitions is in an #ifndef _UWIN
11:54 <wrtlprnft> so i defined that to get rid of the definition ;)
11:54 -!- alda [n=alda@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:54 <wrtlprnft> no idea what it broke
11:54 <wrtlprnft> alda eh
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> alan alda?
11:54 <alda> hi all, can i change the resolution of the game to 800x600?
11:55 <wrtlprnft> sure
11:55 <wrtlprnft> system setup->display settings
11:55 <wrtlprnft> ->screen mode
11:55 <alda> perhaps i'm runni8ng my pc @ tv and another resolutoin gives me a bad picture
11:55 <alda> Lucifer_arma: dont know ya sry
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> alan alda was an actor...
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> MASH, iirc :)
11:56 <alda> wrtlprnft: and can this be changed in a cfg file? cause i cant see anything in game now
11:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
11:56 <alda> Lucifer_arma: ooh^^ hehe dont know him
11:56 <wrtlprnft> var/user.cfg
11:56 <wrtlprnft> search your computer for user.cfg
11:56 <alda> wrtlprnft: great have it allready found, but dont know the line, can you help me?
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> can't see anything?  shouldn't it fail if it can't setup a resolution?
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> grep "RESOLUTION" ?
11:57 <wrtlprnft>  46      ARMAGETRON_SCREENMODE_H 768
11:57 <wrtlprnft>  47      ARMAGETRON_SCREENMODE_W 1024
11:57 <wrtlprnft> it won't be the same line, probably
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> awww, no resolution for me, heh
11:57 <alda> Lucifer_arma: it isnt the games fault, its my tvs one, he can only show fullscreen apps correctly if they have the same resoultion as the desktop
11:58 <wrtlprnft> but search for SCREENMODE
11:58 <wrtlprnft> alda: then press f ingame
11:58 <wrtlprnft> it should throw you into windowed mode
11:58 <alda> ok thx wrtlprnft i'll proof it
11:58 <wrtlprnft> yw
11:58 <alda> :)
11:59  * Lucifer_arma suspects he needs to change configure.ac to make it link to wsock32 :(
11:59 <wrtlprnft> i love that file. everytime i open it i instantly want to throw up
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> haha
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> it's pretty hairy, isn't it?
12:00 <wrtlprnft> yeah
12:00 <wrtlprnft> does anyone remember my outcome for the density of margerine?
12:00  * wrtlprnft forgot it :(
12:01  * Lucifer_arma doesn't
12:01 <wrtlprnft> second, i have logs :)
12:01 <wrtlprnft> grep density ~/irclogs/FreeNode/\#armagetron.log
12:02 <wrtlprnft> oops
12:02 <wrtlprnft> wrong window
12:03 <wrtlprnft> ah, 28 grams
12:03 <wrtlprnft> or 3/20 of the container
12:03 <z-man> That's not a density
12:03 <wrtlprnft> no, i know
12:04 <wrtlprnft> the density was something else, wait
12:04 <wrtlprnft> 17:44 <wrtlprnft> 1,165 kg/m^3
12:04 <z-man> Sure? The last time I threw margerine into water, it floated.
12:04 <wrtlprnft> hmm
12:04 <z-man> And that was just five hours ago :)
12:05 <wrtlprnft> maybe not totally accurate :(
12:05 <wrtlprnft> i just measured the diameter and height of a margerine container and took the mass that was printed on it
12:06 <wrtlprnft> but since it isn't a perfect cylinder but more like a piece of a cone it might be wrong
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> but the container's not a perfect cyclinder, is it?
12:06 <z-man> Hmm, maybe they ripped you off :)
12:06 <wrtlprnft> and i didn't know how high the container was filled originally
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> right, you need an integral to solve that volume :)
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, I could compute it relatively straightforward like
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> since we in america use volume to measure ingredients, and I have a nice digital scale
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> measure the cup container empty, then fill it with margerine and measure it again :)
12:08 <wrtlprnft> I know, but I don't have a scale here
12:08 <wrtlprnft> at home we do have one, but in canada it doesn't seem to be an usual cooking utensil
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> it's unusual in my kitchen, too, but I insisted on having it
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> I use 2 lbs of potatoes to cook enough for my whole family
12:09 <wrtlprnft> #g 2lbs in kg
12:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2 pounds = 0.90718474 kilograms
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> we also buy our meat in big chunks and cut it down, better to use a scale for that then eyeballing it
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> umm, you can't make that conversion without knowing the density of the potato
12:10 <wrtlprnft> ?
12:10 <wrtlprnft> pounds = measure for mass/force, right?
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> yes
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> kg is just mass
12:10 <wrtlprnft> *insert comment about how ridiculous it is to measure mass and force in the same unit here*
12:10 <wrtlprnft> so?
12:11 <wrtlprnft> 2 lbs <-- i assumed you meant pounds as mass
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> so you can't convert pounds to mass without knowing, errr, nevermind
12:11 <wrtlprnft> lol
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> I guess google's converter already knows about the force being applied and takes it into account.  :)
12:11 <wrtlprnft> it knows that g =
12:11 <wrtlprnft> #g g
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you can't make that conversion if we're on the moon, with google.  :)
12:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
12:11 <wrtlprnft> #g gravitational constant
12:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: gravitational constant = 6.67300 &#215; 10^(-11) m^(3) kg^(-1) s^(-2)
12:11 <wrtlprnft> gah
12:12 <wrtlprnft> not G, g i want!
12:12 <wrtlprnft> #g gravity on earth
12:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: gravity on earth = 9.80665 m / s^(2)
12:12 <wrtlprnft> there ya go
12:12 <@guru3> that's just gonna be an average
12:12 <wrtlprnft> it's enough for cooking i think
12:12 <@guru3> for example
12:12 <@guru3> in sweden
12:13 <@guru3> it's closer to 9.82
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> closer to sea level?
12:13 <@guru3> i'm not quite sure how that works
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> it's a combination of altitude and location, since the earth isn't a perfect sphere
12:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: on the moon your potatoes will still have a mass of 2lbs, but a weight of ~.33 lbs
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> pounds isn't a measurement of mass here or on the moon
12:14 <wrtlprnft> it isn't?
12:14 <@guru3> what's the diff between inertial and gravitational mass again?
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> no
12:14 <wrtlprnft> what do you use for mass then?
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> we don't?  :)
12:14 <wrtlprnft> omg
12:14 <wrtlprnft> what's the unit of g then?
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, I'd have to think about it.  Scientists use SI units
12:14 <@guru3> mmm SI
12:15 <wrtlprnft> oh, right, lbs was PRESSURE and weight, right
12:15 <@guru3> i've got that stuff in my phsyics notes
12:15 <z-man> Should I hack -lws2_32 into configure? It appears it almost already is in there :)
12:15 <wrtlprnft> i think
12:15 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
12:15 <Lucifer_arma> here, add this and we won't fight:
12:15 <Lucifer_arma>         LIBS="$LIBS -lwsock32"  <-- line 401
12:15 <Lucifer_arma> libtools.a(libtools_a-tDirectories.o)(.text+0x7f):tDirectories.cpp: undefined reference to `_errno'  <--- leaves me with just this
12:17 <wrtlprnft> and remove the LDOPTS from the configure call?
12:17 <z-man> That's in the standard library, IIRC
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, which should I link to?
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: yes, and remove LDOPTS from the configure call
12:18 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it runs through for me
12:18 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 2 $ ls src/armagetronad_main.exe            ~/cross/armagetronad
12:18 <wrtlprnft> src/armagetronad_main.exe
12:18 <wrtlprnft> :)
12:18 <z-man> not for me, I'm stuck with _errno
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> what's the commandline for the linker you ended up with?
12:18 <z-man> Then run it :)
12:19 <Lucifer_arma> :)
12:19 <wrtlprnft> 12:18 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 2 $ ls src/armagetronad_main.exe ~/cross/armagetronad
12:19 <wrtlprnft> 12:18 <wrtlprnft> src/armagetronad_main.exe
12:19 <wrtlprnft> oops sorry
12:19 <wrtlprnft> i386-mingw32msvc-c++  -I. -I.. -I/home/mathias/cross/tools/include -D_UWIN2 -O2 -Wno-long-long   -o armagetronad_main.exe  armagetronad_main-gFloor.o libtron.a libengine.a libnetwork.a libui.a thirdparty/shttpd/libshttpd.a librender.a libtools.a  -L/home/mathias/cross/tools/lib -lxml2  -lwsock32
12:19 <wrtlprnft> z-man: run it? WINE?
12:19 <z-man> If you insist.
12:20 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ wine src/armagetronad_main.exe            ~/cross/armagetronad
12:20 <wrtlprnft> err:module:import_dll Library libxml2-2.dll (which is needed by L"Z:\\home\\mathias\\cross\\armagetronad\\src\\armagetronad_main.exe") not found
12:20 <wrtlprnft> err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"Z:\\home\\mathias\\cross\\armagetronad\\src\\armagetronad_main.exe" failed, status c0000135
12:20 <wrtlprnft> i don't have a windows machine here
12:20 <z-man> Hmm, I don't know how DLLs work in WINE
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> wine doesn't know about mingw, link those dlls from the current location
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> they should be in $MINGPREFIX/bin
12:20 <wrtlprnft> i was able to run in wine...
12:21 <Lucifer_arma> was that from a cross-compiled build directory?  or did you install it from a package?
12:21 <wrtlprnft> it was in a build dir
12:22 <wrtlprnft> if i install it it won't work either...
12:22 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ wine bin/armagetronad-dedicated                  ~/cross/tools
12:22 <wrtlprnft> wine: could not load L"Z:\\home\\mathias\\cross\\tools\\bin\\armagetronad-dedicated" as Win32 binary
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> still stuck with _errno
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> figure out which library to link yet?  I've got a list...
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> grep "_errno" /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/*
12:23 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's a different version?
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/dllcrt1.o matches
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/dllcrt2.o matches
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libcrtdll.a matches
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libgmon.a matches
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libiberty.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmingwex.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcr70.a matches
12:24 <wrtlprnft> gcc version 3.4.6
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcr70d.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcr71.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcr71d.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcrt.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libmsvcrtd.a matches
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libxml2.a matches
12:24 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you don't know which of those files define _errno and which ones depend on it...
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> you are correct
12:25 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> msvcrt and msvcr70 both depend on it
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> xml2 as well, kinda goes without saying
12:25 <wrtlprnft> that's why i'd like to use readelf, but it doesn't work on those files :(
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> do you know which one's the mingw runtime?
12:26 <wrtlprnft> no clue
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's not mingwex
12:27 <wrtlprnft> just set up a small script that tries all of them?
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> it's not gmon
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> it's possible none of them define it but they all link to it
12:30 <wrtlprnft> yeah
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> I think mingw32 is going to be the runtime
12:34 <wrtlprnft> just tried it on my mother's win98 machine downstairs...
12:34 <wrtlprnft> it complains that it doesn't find libxml2.dll
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> you need that file in the directory with the executable
12:34 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
12:36 <wrtlprnft> !!!
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: did you work out the _errno thing?
12:36 <wrtlprnft> it starts up!
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> does it play?  :)
12:36 <wrtlprnft> it just complains later about a missing var dir
12:37 <wrtlprnft> could not create path to ~/.armagetronad-dedicated/var/scorelog.txt
12:38 <wrtlprnft> hmm.
12:38 <wrtlprnft> it uses / instead of \ for paths
12:39 <wrtlprnft> could not crate path to var/scorelog.txt
12:39 <wrtlprnft> *create
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> why didn't it bork over _errno?
12:41 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no, haven't found anything
12:41 <z-man> I'm using gcc 3.4.6, just as wrtlprnft 
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> i586-mingw32msvc-c++ (GCC) 3.4.2 (mingw-special)
12:41 <wrtlprnft> what do i need to do to tell it to use \ in paths?
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> at least we're all on the same minor version
12:42 <wrtlprnft> *major?
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> major.minor.revision
12:43 <wrtlprnft> ah
12:43 <wrtlprnft> so 2.4.1 would be the same minor revision?
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> no, "same minor" implies "same major" as well
12:46 <wrtlprnft> :)
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> because there's no relationship between minor versions from different major trees
12:46 <wrtlprnft> so, any clue about \ or /?
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> it could just be output that way for clarity
12:50 <wrtlprnft> aaah, missing rights
12:51 <wrtlprnft> wooooooooot
12:51 <wrtlprnft> i can play on my server!
12:52 <@guru3> buahahahaha
12:52 <@guru3> sweden didn't score
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> the server you just built?
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so what about _errno?  google's not helping :(
12:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes, the server i just build
12:55 <wrtlprnft> on a win98 machine, 30ms lag :P
12:55 <wrtlprnft> fortress settings :D
12:55 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: update gcc?
12:55 <wrtlprnft> ok now, back to the client...
12:55 <Lucifer_arma> z-man's having the same problem...
12:56 <wrtlprnft> really?
12:56 <wrtlprnft> want me to committ the two files i changed?
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> sure, what files are they?
12:56 <wrtlprnft> M      ../armagetronad/src/tools/tDirectories.cpp
12:56 <wrtlprnft> M      ../armagetronad/configure.ac
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> At revision 4836.
12:57 <wrtlprnft> no, not committed yet
12:58 <wrtlprnft> Sending        configure.ac
12:58 <wrtlprnft> Sending        src/tools/tDirectories.cpp
12:58 <wrtlprnft> Transmitting file data ..
12:58 <wrtlprnft> Committed revision 4837.
12:59 <wrtlprnft> and my configure line is...
12:59 <alda> hey game works on:
12:59 <wrtlprnft> XML2_CONFIG=/home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/xml2-config SDL_CONFIG=/home/mathias/cross/tools/bin/sdl-config CFLAGS="-I/home/mathias/cross/tools/include -DNO_SOCKLEN_T -D_UWIN" CXXFLAGS="-I/home/mathias/cross/tools/include -D_UWIN2" ./configure --host=i386-mingw32msvc --prefix=/home/mathias/cross/tools --disable-sound --disable-glout --disable-binreloc
12:59 <alda> Host/Kernel/OS  "alteKanotixBox" running Linux i686 [ KANOTIX 2006 Easter  ]
12:59 <alda> CPU Info        Pentium II (Deschutes) 512 KB cache flags( - ) clocked at [ 267.309 MHz ]
12:59 <alda> Videocard       ATI RV280 [Radeon 9200 SE]  X.Org 7.0.0  [ 800x600 @73hz ]
12:59 <alda> Network cards   D-Link System RTL8139 Ethernet, at port: c000 
12:59 <alda> Processes 76 | Uptime 2:49 | Memory 176.367/185.305MB | HDD Maxtor 6K040L0,ST34321A Size 44GB (5%used) | Client Konversation 0.19 | Infobash v2.50rc10
12:59 <wrtlprnft> o_O
12:59 <alda> with lowest settings of course
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> so it works on another linux distribution :)
13:00 <wrtlprnft> I have 3 servers on a machine with 400MHz
13:00 <alda> but runs nice
13:00 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
13:00 <armabot> spidey: 20:00:45 up 49 days, 20:05, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
13:00 <alda> ^^
13:01 <wrtlprnft> that's my server :P
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> 13:01:42 up 6 days,  2:12,  3 users,  load average: 0.68, 0.52, 0.32  <--- heh
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> my laptop's better, but not much
13:02 <wrtlprnft> and you complain about my machine again...
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> ?  10 days vs 6 days?
13:02 <wrtlprnft> ?
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> the difference is that I intentionally shut down my laptop
13:03 <wrtlprnft> ah, got something mixed up
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> libtools.a(libtools_a-tDirectories.o)(.text+0x7f):tDirectories.cpp: undefined reference to `_errno'
13:04  * Lucifer_arma growls
13:05 <z-man> Yeah, that's the only error I get for the master server.
13:06 <wrtlprnft> wanna play on my win98 server? just to see if it performs ok?
13:06 <wrtlprnft> SERVER_NAME WooT! Win32 crosscompiled from linux! SVN Trunk! WooT!
13:08 <Lucifer_arma> -lm maybe?  I found a wxWindows post saying _errno is in the math library
13:08 <Lucifer_arma> nope, that didn't do it
13:10 <wrtlprnft> why don't you compile the newest binutils and gcc by yourself?
13:10 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=66125
13:10 <wrtlprnft> that's what i used, + your stuff on the wiki
13:11 <z-man> wrtlprnft: I compiled the stuff myself, too :(
13:12 <wrtlprnft> hmm
13:12 <z-man> I'm looking for hints in the header files
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I ws about to point that out, but wanted to see what was on the page first :)
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I'm looking for hints on google :)
13:13 <z-man> the undefined references only come from tDirectories and shttp, that can't be coincidence
13:13 <wrtlprnft> i'd send you my entire /home/mathias/cross, but it's 999MB big
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not getting any from shttpd
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> just tDirectories
13:13 <z-man> Hmm
13:15 <z-man> There's a bit messing with errno and _UWIN
13:16 <z-man> right in include/errno.h
13:16 <wrtlprnft> what version of libxml2/binutils do you have?
13:16 <Lucifer_arma> I downloaded libxml2 fresh for this
13:16 <Lucifer_arma> libxml2-2.6.26
13:16 <wrtlprnft> libxml2-2.6.23
13:17 <z-man> libxml is irrelevant, binutils is 2.16.91-20060119-1
13:17 <wrtlprnft> that's what i got from /usr/portage/distfiles
13:17 <wrtlprnft> binutils-2.16.1
13:17 <z-man> libxml2 is the same is wrtls
13:17 <z-man> from distfiles, too :)
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> GNU ld version 2.15.91 20040904
13:17 <wrtlprnft> try that version of binutils?
13:18 <z-man> wrtlprnft: your version is between mine and Lucifer_arma's, I don't think it can be responsible
13:19 <wrtlprnft> true
13:19 <wrtlprnft> hmm, then what did i do different than you guys?
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> what compile line went for tDirectories.cpp ?
13:20 <wrtlprnft> if i386-mingw32msvc-c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I..   -I/home/mathias/cross/tools/include/libxml2   -I./tools -I. -I.. -I/home/mathias/cross/tools/include -D_UWIN2 -O2 -Wno-long-long -MT libtools_a-tDirectories.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/libtools_a-tDirectories.Tpo" -c -o libtools_a-tDirectories.o `test -f 'tools/tDirectories.cpp' || echo './'`tools/tDirectories.cpp; \
13:20 <wrtlprnft> then mv -f ".deps/libtools_a-tDirectories.Tpo" ".deps/libtools_a-tDirectories.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/libtools_a-tDirectories.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> it's something to do with single-thread vs multi-thread dll's, I've found
13:22 <wrtlprnft> win98 supports threads?
13:22 <z-man> if /usr/local/cross-tools/bin/i386-mingw32msvc-c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../../armagetronad/src -I..   -I/usr/local/cross-tools//include/libxml2   -I../../../../armagetronad/src/tools -I. -I.. -fmessage-length=0 -DNO_SOCKLEN_T -D_UWIN -O2 -Wall -Wpointer-arith -W -Wcast-qual -Wcast-align -Wconversion --pedantic -Wno-unused-parameter -MT libtools_a-tDirectories.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/libtools_a-tDirectories.Tpo" -c -o libtools_a-tDirect
13:22 <z-man>  echo '../../../../armagetronad/src/'`tools/tDirectories.cpp;
13:22 <z-man> you have _UWIN2
13:23 <wrtlprnft> yes
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> I have _UWIN
13:23 <z-man> _UWIN2 doesn't exist in my headers.
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> try it anyway, z-man 
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> mine just built :)
13:24 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:24  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft cause he's bored
13:24 <spidey> lucifer,you signup for psykos sumo thingy?
13:24 <z-man> try rebuilding. We added _UWIN for a reason
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> spidey:  no, I didn't
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> you mean make clean and make?
13:25  * wrtlprnft wouldn't sign up if it was the last tournament on earth
13:25  * z-man means that
13:26 <spidey> why not wrtl?
13:26 <spidey> some good players signed up,and i like a challange :p
13:26 <wrtlprnft> because psyko is ***ing annoying?
13:26 <spidey> i don't like him either,but i put up with him
13:27 <spidey> you know,when i was hosting a tron server awhile back i had him come in and he told me "he starts shit cause he likes the attention,infact he loves it"
13:27 <wrtlprnft> additionally, my journey home is comming soon, i won't have much time
13:27 <spidey> exact words but he = i
13:27 <wrtlprnft> he is you?
13:27 <wrtlprnft> so you said it?
13:27 <spidey> no...
13:27 <spidey> he said it
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, spidey and psyko are the same idiot?
13:28 <spidey> :|
13:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:28 <spidey> fuck no :/
13:28 <spidey> i'm on cahrter
13:28 <spidey> charter
13:28 <spidey> he's on verizon
13:28 <spidey> :p
13:28 <wrtlprnft> ~*SP*~ SpIDo |mbc|
13:28 <wrtlprnft> ~*SP*~ SpYDo |mbc|
13:28 <spidey> :/
13:28 <wrtlprnft> ~*SP*~ SpYKo |mbc|
13:28 <wrtlprnft> i like that one :)
13:29 <spidey> grrrr
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> use it, see if people love you or hate you
13:29 <spidey> i will not!
13:29 <wrtlprnft> ~*SP*~ SpYkO |mbc|
13:29 <wrtlprnft> there we go
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> but don't go to CT Fortress named PLayer Juan, someone'll try to kick you :)
13:29 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:29 <spidey> lol
13:29  * wrtlprnft wonders what's up with Player Juan
13:30 <z-man> You could try Chico
13:30 <The_ManU> hm hi i'm alda on other machine, if i change the graphical options, armagetron forget them after restart of the game
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> probably just some asshat used that name before me
13:30 <The_ManU> can you help me plz?
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> ?  that's ccrazy talk, armagetron remembers
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> unless it crashed
13:31 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: try starting arma with -w
13:31 <wrtlprnft> for windowed mode
13:31 <wrtlprnft> then you can fool around with the settings
13:31 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, i can't seem to get kicked :/
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> I suspect -D_UWIN is the wrong define to solve that problem
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> JJbean wouldn't have kicked anyway after I ripped him an asshole over the unfamiliar name thing
13:32 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: yes on this pc all works fine, but _AFTER_RESTART_OF_THE_GAME_ it forgets the settings
13:32 <The_ManU> Host/Kernel/OS  "KanotixBox" running Linux i686 [ KANOTIX 2005-04 ]
13:32 <The_ManU> CPU Info        Intel Pentium 4 512 KB cache flags( - ) clocked at [ 2606.199 MHz ]
13:32 <The_ManU> Videocard       nVidia NV43 [GeForce 6600/GeForce 6600 GT]  X.Org 6.9.0  [ 1280x1024 @75hz ]
13:32 <The_ManU> Network cards   Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet, at port: ec00 
13:32 <The_ManU> Processes 82 | Uptime 19min | Memory 367.406/1010.41MB | HDD ST3160021A,Maxtor 6L080L0 Size 242GB (42%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 6600 GT/AGP/SSE2 | GLX Version 2.0.2 NVIDIA 87.62 | Client Konversation 0.19 | Infobash v2.50rc10
13:32 <The_ManU> other pc ...
13:32 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i386-mingw32msvc/sys-include/io.h does contain _UWIN
13:32 <z-man> but not _UWIN2
13:33 <wrtlprnft> who ever talked about _UWIN2?
13:33 <z-man> Your command line :)
13:33 <wrtlprnft> o_O
13:34 <wrtlprnft> that's a typo then
13:34 <wrtlprnft> very weird
13:34 <wrtlprnft> if it was a typo, how did it manage to fix my problem?
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> and changing mine to match yours made mine build after it had already built the rest of the game
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> so some object files were built with _UWIN defined, and some were built with _UWIN2 defined instead
13:35 <wrtlprnft> o_O
13:35 <wrtlprnft> aaaah
13:35 <z-man> The only cpp file where the _UWIN had a positive effect was nSocket.cpp
13:35 <z-man> Because that fails to compile now again :)
13:36 <wrtlprnft> i later changed the line, after nSocket.cpp compiled
13:36 <z-man> Aha
13:36 <wrtlprnft> and i didn't do make clean
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> now I've got shttpd and nSocket together bitching at me
13:36 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:36 <z-man> so #define in sSocket.cpp
13:36 <z-man> #define _UWN, I mean.
13:36 <wrtlprnft> yeah
13:36 <wrtlprnft> let me wait for it to reach that point
13:37 <z-man> Builds!
13:37 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:37 <z-man> What we really should do, probably, is get rid of one of the #includes
13:37 <z-man> I'll try to find out which one
13:38 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> starting from a make clean
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> you mean nSocket.cpp right?
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> (there isn't an sSocket.cpp?)
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> how would that fix it for shttpd, too?
13:39 <wrtlprnft> yeah, nSocket
13:39 <z-man> Right
13:39 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: shttp should work by itself
13:39 <wrtlprnft> if you don't define _UWIN in it
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.  nvm.  :)  I'm backwards
13:40 <wrtlprnft> nvm, shttpd fails for me now
13:41 <z-man> It didn't for me...
13:41 <wrtlprnft> gosh
13:41 <z-man> Ah, you forgot the SOCKTYPE
13:41 <wrtlprnft> ?
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> -DNO_SOCKLEN_T
13:41 <@guru3> curse those socks
13:41 <z-man> right
13:41 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:41 <@guru3> if you don't pay attention to the socktype
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> this whole thing socks
13:41 <@guru3> you wind up with mismatched socks :(
13:41 <wrtlprnft> but i have -DNO_SOCKLEN_T...
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> can't have that, socks must be gay or they're not cool
13:42 <wrtlprnft> in CCFLAGS
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> alright, mine built
13:42 <wrtlprnft> in CFLAGS
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> CCFLAGS doesn't exist :)
13:42 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i meant CFLAGS
13:42 <wrtlprnft> now I'm the only one it doesn't link for?
13:42 <wrtlprnft> it fails at linking time
13:43  * wrtlprnft does make clean once again
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> Internal error in static tLanguage* tLanguage::FindStrict(const tString&) in ../../../armagetronadnew/src/tools/tLocale.cpp:150 :
13:43 <Lucifer_arma>         Language British English not found.
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> Please send a Bug report!
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you're the only one fucked right now
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> wine runs it but quits with the error I just pasted
13:44 <wrtlprnft> that's a missing language dir
13:45 <wrtlprnft> try giving it a --datadir option
13:45 <wrtlprnft> that would point to your source dir
13:45 <z-man> The conflict is between unistd.h and winsock.h
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> sure it's datadir?
13:45 <wrtlprnft> i think it is
13:46 <wrtlprnft> --datadir <Directory>        : read game data (textures, sounds and texts) from this directory
13:46 <wrtlprnft> texts == language methinks
13:47 <wrtlprnft> !!
13:47 <wrtlprnft> works now!
13:47 <wrtlprnft> yay
13:47 <The_ManU> hm wrtlprnft i play in 1280x1024, the text in game is very bad you can see pixels, text in menu is sharpen, is that nromal?
13:47 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: yes
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmm
13:47 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: it will be different in the next version
13:47 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: i'll hope, when can we get it?^^
13:47 <wrtlprnft> you can already try to compile the trunk (in SVN on SF)
13:48 <wrtlprnft> nice and crisp fonts :)
13:48 <The_ManU> ah ok
13:48 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=350
13:48 <wrtlprnft> like on those screenshots :)
13:49  * Lucifer_arma thinks we'll need to work extra to get good support for cross-compiling
13:49 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: we're planning to release a development snapshot (or whatever it will be called, ask Luke-Jr for details) soon
13:49 <z-man> No, don't ask Luke-Jr!
13:49 <wrtlprnft> why? with a few quirks the server already works
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> you don't really want to sick Luke-Jr on this guy, do you?
13:50 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:50 <wrtlprnft> well, i don't know how it's called
13:50 <wrtlprnft> if i call it alpha he complains
13:50 <wrtlprnft> if i call it development snapshot he complains
13:50 <wrtlprnft> if i call it development beta he complains
13:50 <The_ManU> say its sid :P
13:50 <The_ManU> then i'll love it
13:51 <wrtlprnft> sid?
13:51 <The_ManU> cuz i use debian sid 8)
13:51 <wrtlprnft> oh
13:51 <The_ManU> still in development
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  a debian fanboy
13:51 <The_ManU> sounds good, doesnt it
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> well, since you put it that way, it's Bacchus
13:51 <The_ManU> ^^
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> only, Luke-Jr would say "Bacchus is 0.4"
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, he's going to come back later and correct us all one at a time
13:52 <wrtlprnft> ok. don't ask Luke-Jr and call it whatever you want
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> how about "most recent release in the development series"?
13:52 <wrtlprnft> Server version: 0.3.0_most_recent_release_in_the_development_series unix dedicated
13:53 <wrtlprnft> o_O
13:53 <The_ManU> hm ok thx for this nice game guys, i love it i've seen a 2d version of tron in suse 7 and i played a while a game called "tron 2.0" with windows which got this mini game too
13:53 <wrtlprnft> 0.3.0_mrritds
13:53 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:54 <The_ManU> "this" mini game;)
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> don't forget your svn revision number!
13:54 <The_ManU> cya
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> bye
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> thanks for playing
13:54 <The_ManU> ok cu
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so why isn't it finding language files?  obviously we disabled binreloc
13:54 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #armagetron ["Konversation terminated!"]
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> where is it looking for language files?
13:54 <z-man> Ok, got the server cross compiling without warnings and errors and hacks :)
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> ooo, another Konversationer
13:55 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you had read his system specs you'd even know the version :P
13:55 <z-man> The Windows version is looking for stuf in the directory where the exe is in
13:55 <wrtlprnft> #last --with Konversation --from The_ManU
13:55 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [13:32:36] <The_ManU> Processes 82 | Uptime 19min | Memory 367.406/1010.41MB | HDD ST3160021A,Maxtor 6L080L0 Size 242GB (42%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 6600 GT/AGP/SSE2 | GLX Version 2.0.2 NVIDIA 87.62 | Client Konversation 0.19 | Infobash v2.50rc10
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> so move the exe to the directory where everything else is?
13:55 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:55 <The_ManU> dunno^^
13:55 <z-man> and for our build process, that's slightly wrong
13:55 <The_ManU> one last question
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> one last answer
13:55 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: yes
13:55 <The_ManU> where has my system put the game? cant find it in kde menu "games"
13:56  * z-man goes for dinner
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> we should change some directories around when it's the mingw target being built
13:56 <The_ManU> i start it with alt+f2 or console
13:56 <The_ManU> cu z-man 
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> how did you install it?
13:56 <The_ManU> Lucifer_arma: apt-get
13:56 <wrtlprnft> it should end up in games if installed correctly
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you just need to flush the cache.  Maybe login and logout
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> er, logout and login
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> something like that, get KDE to reload the menu
13:57 <spidey> LOL
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> press shift-escape to make it appear in the menu
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, CTRL->ALT->BACKSPACE will force KDE to reload it's application menu
13:57 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: don't log out and in
13:57 <wrtlprnft> just run kbuildsycoca
13:58 <wrtlprnft> uh, but alt-Sysrq-B will work as well
13:58 <spidey> 123321456654789987
13:58 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:59 <wrtlprnft> what did he do wrong?
13:59 <spidey> i'm betting he clicked shutdown instad of logout
14:00 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> he probably hit ctrl-alt-backspace
14:00 <The_ManU> he hit that
14:00 <The_ManU> didnt helped
14:00 <The_ManU> what were the other suggestions
14:00 <wrtlprnft> hmm
14:00 <The_ManU> ?^^
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> <wrtlprnft> just run kbuildsycoca
14:00 <wrtlprnft> just use kmenuedit?
14:01 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that has the same effect as logging in and out, just without the actual logging in and out ;)
14:01 <wrtlprnft> but you can use kmenuedit to add an armagetronad entry ;)
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> better wait
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> seriously
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> I did that one time, and a couple of days later I had 2 armagetronad items
14:01 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: but normally it shopuld appear without add it manually?
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> one that I added, and one that KDE eventually picked up on its own
14:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:02 <wrtlprnft> i once ended up with everything twice
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> it gets worse, a third appeared when I installed the autopackage file
14:02 <wrtlprnft> really, everyting
14:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> man, you should see what I've got.  When I boot into t2, I get my old Mandriva menus
14:02 <wrtlprnft> i currently have 4 armagetronad entries, none of which i use :P
14:04 <The_ManU> is izt called armagetron or armagetronad
14:04 <wrtlprnft> Armagetron Advanced
14:04 <The_ManU> i can start it with armagetron
14:04 <wrtlprnft> !
14:04 <The_ManU> ah
14:04 <wrtlprnft> what version?
14:05 <wrtlprnft> if you installed armagertron you got 0.2.6 which is stone age
14:05 <The_ManU> armagetron:
14:05 <The_ManU>   Installiert:
14:05 <The_ManU>   M�gliche Pakete:
14:05 <The_ManU>   Versions-Tabelle:
14:05 <The_ManU>  *** 0
14:05 <The_ManU>         500 http://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main Packages
14:05 <The_ManU>         200 http://ftp.de.debian.org testing/main Packages
14:05 <The_ManU>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
14:05 <The_ManU> that i have
14:05 <The_ManU> ...
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, configuration files not found
14:05 <wrtlprnft> then you have armagetronad, but an old version still
14:05 <The_ManU> and the newest is?
14:05  * wrtlprnft would recommend downloading arma from its site
14:06 <wrtlprnft>
14:06 <Lucifer_arma>, isn't it?
14:06  * wrtlprnft refers to the title
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's in the topic for this irc channel
14:06 <The_ManU> ^^
14:06 <The_ManU> hm i think then it would come soon in debian sid
14:06 <The_ManU> to install with apt
14:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, 0.2.8 is a few months old now
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> there is no one here with debian, so we wouldn't know at this point
14:06 <wrtlprnft> is a bit newer, but mostly bugfixes
14:07 <The_ManU> hm ok
14:08 <wrtlprnft> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/armagetronad/armagetronad-
14:08 <wrtlprnft> you want that one, i think
14:08 <wrtlprnft> or no, you don't
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> ok, yay, the dedicated server is running in wine
14:08 <wrtlprnft> that's
14:08 <wrtlprnft> http://beta.armagetronad.net/fetch.php/0.2.8%252F0.2.8.2%252Farmagetronad-
14:08 <wrtlprnft> that one
14:10 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: armagetronad-dedicated runs in wine for me, but it doesn't let me connect :(
14:10 -!- alda [n=alda@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I couldn't connect either :(
14:10 <wrtlprnft> but it works fine on windows, so don't worry
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> so, we need to support filename extension, and we need to set it up with a different organization on make install
14:11 <The_ManU> hm i'll wait till it is in sid
14:11 <wrtlprnft> no clue how long that'll take
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?  You don't get maps...
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> no, not if they're still stuck on
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> that's getting a bit long in the tooth now, too
14:12 <wrtlprnft> that one even has a security issue
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> has important security fixes found by the debian guy, and you're vulnerable if that's what you've got
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> has security fixes needed.  :)
14:12 <The_ManU> security fixes? can you explain what can happen?
14:13 <Lucifer_arma> and Debian has a solid reputation for stale packages.  That's why Ubuntu and friends were created in the first place.
14:13 <Lucifer_arma> Um, to be honest, it's so long ago that I don't remember details.
14:13 <Lucifer_arma> See, is a bit over a year old now, longer even
14:14 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: and do you know?
14:15 <wrtlprnft> nope
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> you're probably not terribly vulnerable since there's hardly anybody around still running anything that old
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> but you're probably also locked out from quite a few servers that require a newer client to play
14:16 <The_ManU> hm perhaps .. is terhe a *.deb for debian users with newer evrsion?
14:16  * wrtlprnft attempts to cross-compile xorg for windows...
14:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know.  Klax would be the guy who'd know
14:17 <wrtlprnft> but you can fetch the rpm and use alien to turn it into a deb
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> the autopackage works well, though, and doesn't break apt
14:17 <The_ManU> yes ..
14:17 <The_ManU> mom
14:17 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:19 <wrtlprnft> so, any clues about the client?
14:19 <wrtlprnft> that would be more interesting, methinks
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> yes it is more interesting, but we just did most of the really painful stuff
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> solve the openGL thing and you've solved the client
14:23 <wrtlprnft> +sound
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> sound should come when SDL works
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> I can't imagine SDL_mixer not working when the core SDL does
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
14:23 <wrtlprnft> true
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> +ftgl
14:24 <wrtlprnft> ftgl shouldn't be too hard
14:28 <z-man> FTGL doesn't use autoconf, that could become painful
14:28 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't?
14:28 <wrtlprnft> well, but it's working in winlibs, isn't it?
14:29 <z-man> At least, its build process is unusual.
14:29 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> also you need to build freetype
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> no telling what freetype itself will deped on
14:29 <wrtlprnft> well, freetype doesn't have any dependencies AFAIK
14:29 <z-man> In Windows, nothing.
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they just coded in hex
14:31 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well, any other than gcc
14:31 <wrtlprnft> it depends on zlib
14:32 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:33 <wrtlprnft> wb
14:33 <The_ManU> hm guys this securoty bug, what can he do, is it really so bad, even people can egt into my machine?
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: what was the thing with and that you had to fix when you first reappeared here?
14:34 <z-man> Some unchecked integer values in the network protocol
14:34 <wrtlprnft> http://www.securiteam.com/windowsntfocus/5JP0A15EVO.html
14:35 <wrtlprnft> http://aluigi.altervista.org/adv/atron-adv.txt
14:36 <z-man> It wasn't some run-of-the-mill buffer overflow bug, you have to do quite a lot of additional work to get your injected code executed
14:36 <z-man> But still, the theoretical possibility exists.
14:37 <wrtlprnft> http://www.opengl.org/products/platform/C6/
14:37 <wrtlprnft> why aren't we on that list?
14:40 <@guru3> wooo 88GB of anime :D
14:40 <wrtlprnft> O_o
14:40 <wrtlprnft> where?
14:41 <@guru3> abot 8m away upstairs in my file server
14:41 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:45 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034184175.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:51 <wrtlprnft> haha. my name is listed on the CIA, first hit on google
14:51  * wrtlprnft feels watched
14:51 <wrtlprnft> http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=wrtlprnft&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
14:52 <@guru3> lol
14:52 <@guru3> my results come out like it's a typo of guru3d :(
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight Lucifer wrtlprnft 
14:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer: 8770000, wrtlprnft: 550
14:52 <@guru3> or that like damn budhist or whatever google
14:52 <wrtlprnft> #google fight Lucifer_arma wrtlprnft
14:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft: 550, Lucifer_arma: 11
14:53 <Luke-Jr> ...
14:53 <wrtlprnft> #google fight davefancella wrtlprnft
14:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: davefancella: 763, wrtlprnft: 555
14:53 <wrtlprnft> gah
14:53 <wrtlprnft> screw you
14:53 <Luke-Jr> me
14:53 <Luke-Jr> no
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:53 <@guru3> #google fight guru3 davefancella
14:53 <armabot> guru3: guru3: 13900, davefancella: 763
14:53 <@guru3> pwnt
14:53 <@guru3> :P
14:53 <Luke-Jr> fight me
14:53 <@guru3> #google fight guru3 luke-jr
14:53 <armabot> guru3: luke-jr: 79500, guru3: 13800
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight Lucifer weirdguy
14:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer: 10600000, weirdguy: 811
14:53 <@guru3> haha no contents there luke
14:54  * wrtlprnft thinks he's getting somewhere with opengl
14:54 <wrtlprnft> http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2002-August/047839.html
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah?
14:54 <Luke-Jr> guru3: someone/thing else must use your name =p
14:54 <@guru3> tons of stuff
14:54 <@guru3> #google fight guru3 tank program
14:54 <armabot> guru3: Error: Unexpected error from Google; please report this to the Supybot developers.
14:54 <@guru3> #google fight guru3 "tank program"
14:54 <armabot> guru3: tank program: 48400000, guru3: 13900
14:54 <@guru3> wtf Oo
14:54 <Luke-Jr> O.O
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: we already have the link library, though
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> grep "_glVertex3f" /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/*
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> Binary file /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/lib/libopengl32.a matches
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> the missing symbol shows up in it, anyway
14:56 <wrtlprnft> then for some reason it doesn't contain glBegin
14:56 <wrtlprnft> that's what configure is looking for
14:57  * Lucifer_arma is considering disabling that check and seeing how it runs
14:57 <Luke-Jr> looks like it's not a C library
14:57 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: we NEED glBegin
14:58 <Luke-Jr> _glVertex3f is glVertex(double, double, double) in C++
14:58 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: yes, but maybe it's failing for a reason that doesn't actually stop it from building?  Unlikely, but I've seen it.  :)
14:58 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: you'll likely find it under _glBegin?
14:58 <wrtlprnft> wooot
14:59 <wrtlprnft> just got it to configure further using some windows DLLs
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> ?
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> you got it past opengL?
14:59 <wrtlprnft> hecking for glVertex3f in -lopengl32... yes
14:59 <wrtlprnft> checking for gluBuild3DMipmaps in -lglu32... no
14:59 <wrtlprnft> configure: error:
14:59 <wrtlprnft> You need GLU to compile Armagetron; it SHOULD have come with OpenGL.
14:59 <wrtlprnft> Read the file doc/install_linux.html.
14:59 <wrtlprnft> hecking lol
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> how'd you get it past opengl?
15:00 <wrtlprnft> I used some dlls from win98
15:00 <wrtlprnft> http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2002-August/047839.html
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that doesn't exactly fix it for the rest of us :)
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's ok, I"m too sleepy ow anyway
15:02 <wrtlprnft> why, just get those files
15:02 <wrtlprnft> and you can fix it later if you find another way :P
15:02 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> you mean the files in the link that gives me a 404?
15:02 <wrtlprnft> 404?
15:03 <Luke-Jr> File Not Found
15:03 <wrtlprnft> http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2002-August/047839.html
15:03 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit]
15:03 <wrtlprnft> that link isn't a 404 for me
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> not that link, but the link in that link
15:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, ignore that link
15:04 <wrtlprnft> the stuff below it is more interesting
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> right.  Umm, where am I supposed to get the files from, then?
15:05 <wrtlprnft> some windows installation?
15:05 <wrtlprnft> or just search for the filename
15:05 <wrtlprnft> I'm sure you'll find it somewhere
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> aha.  I see.  :)
15:05  * Lucifer_arma doesn't have a windows installation anywhere to tap for it
15:05 <wrtlprnft> http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?opengl
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> and I said I was too sleepy, I meant it.  I'm about to pass out.
15:05 <wrtlprnft> first hit on google...
15:06 <Lucifer_arma> and I said I was too sleepy, I meant it.  I'm about to pass out.
15:06 <wrtlprnft> good sleep then
15:06  * Luke-Jr injects Lucifer_arma with caffeine =p
15:06  * wrtlprnft suggests Lucifer_arma sleep at night
15:06 <Lucifer_arma> I drink tea all day, Luke-Jr 
15:06 <wrtlprnft> *should
15:07 <Luke-Jr> wtf? it was correct w/o the 'should'
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's correct with the should, too
15:07 <wrtlprnft> yep
15:07 <wrtlprnft> and i wansn't sure about the one without
15:07 <Luke-Jr> it's slightly redundant with it
15:07 <The_ManU> z-man, this security bug in the source is also dangerous for linux systems when i use 2.7?
15:08 <wrtlprnft> it is
15:08  * Luke-Jr notes this is what the bugfix version element is for
15:09 <Luke-Jr> now we can go back and bump 0.2.7 and such up with the fix
15:09 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:09 <wrtlprnft> the fix already exists
15:09 <wrtlprnft> in
15:10 <The_ManU> mine is ... and the apt-get installation is better for me than a own dpkg
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> was a bugfix release
15:10 <The_ManU> but if it is so dangerous, i'll make a deb
15:10 <The_ManU> the debian sources have only
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> ?  autopackage will install harmlessly into your system
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> really, you can just install it to your home directory, not even to system directories
15:11 <The_ManU> the whole game or onlx the fix?
15:11 <wrtlprnft> the whole game
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> the whole game, you never patch the executable :)
15:11 <wrtlprnft> that makes about 3MB or so
15:12 <The_ManU> hm but installation in ~ looks not nice
15:12 <wrtlprnft> why?
15:12 <wrtlprnft> install it in /opt if you want
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> because it's completely invisible?
15:12 <The_ManU> so just say if its dangeropus with FW in router and linux, or not, then i'll install newest or not^
15:12 <wrtlprnft> ?!
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> autopackage has a very nice installer.  You'll get your menu item, and you won't have to stumble across it everytime you wipe your nose
15:15 <The_ManU> hm yes but i update only if its important and if you say, yes this security bug in is bad for your machine, then i'll update, but if its only a very little thing then i#ll nit just say what would be better, and i do it;)
15:15 <Vanhayes> #dict arrogance
15:15 <armabot> Vanhayes: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: arrogance n : overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors [syn: {haughtiness}, {hauteur}, {highhandedness}, {lordliness}]; gcide: Arrogance \Ar"ro*gance\, n. [F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See {Arrogant}.] The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing manner; that species of pride (5 more messages)
15:15 <Vanhayes> #more
15:15 <armabot> Vanhayes: which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption. [1913 Webster] I hate not you for her proud arrogance. --Shak. [1913 Webster] Syn: Haughtiness; hauteur; assumption; lordliness; presumption; pride; disdain; (4 more messages)
15:16 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: it theoretically gives everyone the ability to do anything on your system
15:16 <wrtlprnft> and the new version is better anyways :P
15:17 <The_ManU> ok wrtlprnft then can you give me plz link to the rpm or a deb plz? and i'll install the new one :)
15:18 <wrtlprnft> http://beta.armagetronad.net/fetch.php/0.2.8%252F0.2.8.2%252Farmagetronad-
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B98F6.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:27 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA68B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:31  * Lucifer_arma farted
15:33 <z-man>  Actually, also the worst thing that can happen to BUG cry abusers is that they're put on my ingore list. I'm far too lazy to ban them.
15:34 <wrtlprnft> don't tell them that
15:34 <The_ManU> Not Found
15:34 <The_ManU> The requested URL /fetch.php/0.2.8/ was not found on this server.
15:34 <wrtlprnft> not again...
15:34 <wrtlprnft> that download script sucks
15:34 <wrtlprnft> wait, fixing it, if i can remember how
15:35 <The_ManU> ok thx :)
15:37 <wrtlprnft> try again...
15:39 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: dont work
15:39 <wrtlprnft> screw this
15:40 <wrtlprnft> http://aabeta.dashjr.org/download/0.2.8/
15:40 <wrtlprnft> direct link, if that mirror system won't work
15:40 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: Luke-Jr 
15:41 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: should i rmove the old packages of armagetron or just install it over the old one?
15:41 <wrtlprnft> uh, no clue about debian
15:41 <wrtlprnft> removing the old one should be safer
15:44 <The_ManU> ok
15:46 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: is that good? 
15:46 <The_ManU> Warning: Skipping conversion of scripts in package armagetronad: postinst prerm
15:46 <The_ManU> Warning: Use the --scripts parameter to include the scripts.
15:46 <The_ManU> armagetronad_0.2.8.2-2_i386.deb generated
15:46 <The_ManU> root@KanotixBox:/home/manu/Eigene_Dateien/Ei
15:49 <wrtlprnft> should be fine
15:50 <wrtlprnft> try it, if it doesn't work uninstall again and call alien with --scripts
15:55 <wrtlprnft> something must be flawed with my libglu32.a...
16:05 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: both doesn#t work
16:10 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: still here?
16:11 <The_ManU> Lucifer_arma: do you know where to get a deb?
16:13 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work?
16:13 <wrtlprnft> like what? error message?
16:14 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: is german
16:14 <wrtlprnft> warum nicht?
16:14 <The_ManU> altes pre-removal-Skript wurde beendet mit Fehler-Status 127
16:15 <wrtlprnft> before that?
16:15 <wrtlprnft> *what is before that
16:15 <The_ManU> W�hle vormals abgew�hltes Paket armagetronad.
16:15 <The_ManU> (Lese Datenbank ... 140561 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
16:15 <The_ManU> Entpacke armagetronad (aus armagetronad_0.2.8.2-2_i386.deb) ...
16:15 <The_ManU> Richte armagetronad ein ( ...
16:15 <The_ManU> /var/lib/dpkg/info/armagetronad.postinst: line 2: /share/games/armagetronad/scripts/sysinstall: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
16:15 <The_ManU> dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von armagetronad (--install):
16:15 <The_ManU>  Unterprozess post-installation script gab den Fehlerwert 127 zur�ck
16:15 <The_ManU> Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
16:15 <The_ManU>  armagetronad
16:15 <The_ManU> thats the wohole thing, without script it says no script found
16:15 <The_ManU> *whole
16:16 <wrtlprnft> grr
16:16 <The_ManU> :'(
16:16 <wrtlprnft> there is no .deb, I'm afreaid, since no developer here uses debian
16:16 <The_ManU> then i have to use this old version :/
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and something seems to be preventing alien from working
16:17 <wrtlprnft> or the autopackage :P
16:17 <The_ManU> hm
16:17 <The_ManU> ?
16:17 <Lucifer_arma> did he even try the autopackage?
16:17 <Lucifer_arma> he gave me the brush off everytime I suggested it...
16:17 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
16:17 <The_ManU> no
16:18 <wrtlprnft> http://aabeta.dashjr.org/download/0.2.8/
16:18 <The_ManU> how to use?
16:18 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: 
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> sh ./*.package
16:19 <The_ManU> ?
16:19 <wrtlprnft> assuming you only have one in the current dirr
16:19 <The_ManU> sh./ and then?
16:19 <wrtlprnft> put it somewhere and say sh <nameofthefile>
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's a space between the sh and the .
16:19 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: why ./?
16:19 <The_ManU> yes
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> habit
16:20 <The_ManU> and then the name of the bin?
16:20 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:21 <wrtlprnft> that'll hopefully give you some nice graphical installation dialog
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> defaults to text in this version, iirc.
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> because the graphical installer segfaulted for like 99.9999999999999999% of the world
16:22 <The_ManU> we'll see he is downloading stuff and asks oot pwd
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't give the root password, it installs to your home directory
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> which is pretty neat
16:23 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you sure it wasn't more like 99.99999999999999999% of the world?
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999)
16:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999) = 0
16:23 <The_ManU> sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 2: unterminated `s' command
16:23 <The_ManU> /usr/share/autopackage/apkg-script-utils: line 1965: /,/: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> what does that say in english?
16:24 <The_ManU> installation ended
16:24 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: 
16:24 <wrtlprnft> weird
16:25 <wrtlprnft> grr, we need more testers on different systems
16:25 <wrtlprnft> looks like most of our devs are on gentoo
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'd like to help, but since I can't read German, I'll go to bed instead
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> #night
16:25 <armabot> Good night Lucifer_arma!
16:25  * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
16:25 <wrtlprnft> sed: -e Expression #1, Char 2: unterminated 's' command
16:25 <wrtlprnft> /usr/share/autopackage/apkg-script-utils: line 1965: /,/:
16:25 <wrtlprnft> file or directory not found
16:26 <z-man> The_ManU: but the installation ran through?
16:26 <z-man> Because I got that error all the time when testing, but it was safe to ignore it, the game worked anyway.
16:27 <z-man> (all the time == on Sarge and Ubuntu)
16:27 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU: btw you get english messages if you prefix LC_ALL=C to your command
16:28  * wrtlprnft is helpless about libglu32 :(
16:28 <wrtlprnft> it just doesn't seem to contain anything useful
16:28 <The_ManU> z-man: yes works
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> libglu32 is extensions that your 3d card driver is supposed to provide
16:29 <The_ManU> wrtlprnft: whats with this lib?
16:29 <z-man> wrtlprnft: still about cross compilation?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:30 <wrtlprnft> mingw does contain it, though
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's a link library
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> at runtime, the program loads from a dll instead
16:30 <wrtlprnft> and the windows trick that worked for libgl32 doesn't work
16:31 <The_ManU> bye
16:31 <wrtlprnft> cya
16:31 <wrtlprnft> any ideas?
16:32 <wrtlprnft> nm --print-armap libglu.a lists some symbols, but if i try to use them they fail at linking time
16:33 <z-man> No, but IIRC, I was using GLU back when I had everything cross compiling.
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> you added -lglu32 to your linker flags?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> yep
16:33 -!- The_ManU [n=manu@p54A0A8AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:34 <z-man> wrtlprnft: how did you get SDL_image to build?
16:34 <z-man> For me, it's not finding the symbols from SDL
16:34 <wrtlprnft> i need SDL_image?
16:34 <wrtlprnft> i got SDL and SDL_gfx
16:35 <z-man> Oh
16:35 <wrtlprnft> but i do need it?
16:35  * wrtlprnft doesn't know what SDL_image is for
16:35 <z-man> Perhaps SDL_gfx replaced SDL_image
16:35 <z-man> not the first name change :)
16:36 <z-man> (Look into the rTexture.cpp include stuff...)
16:37 <wrtlprnft> then we need SDL_image i guess
16:39 <wrtlprnft> yuck
16:39 <wrtlprnft> SDL_image wants zlib and libjpeg
16:39  * z-man is getting the prebuilt binaries
16:40 <wrtlprnft> cheater!
16:42 <wrtlprnft> wtf
16:42 <wrtlprnft> zlib's ./configure doesn't support --host!
16:44 <wrtlprnft> what do i do now :(
16:47 <z-man> Gaa, the binaries don't contain the libraries
16:48 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:48 <wrtlprnft> uh, tell me if you find out how to compile zlib for another host :(
16:51 <z-man> Will do, probably not today.
16:51  * wrtlprnft has had enough of crosscompiling for today
16:51  * wrtlprnft is off for a few matches at BF fortress (if it's not full)
16:55 <z-man> Shall I kick someone out?
16:56 <wrtlprnft> nah
16:56 <wrtlprnft> I didn't even try to join yet
16:56 <wrtlprnft> I just realized the arma version i use for playing is stull based on CVS
16:56 <wrtlprnft> so I'm currently compiling sVN
16:56 <wrtlprnft> with optimisation and custom hacks etc
16:59 <wrtlprnft> z-man: or actually, if psyko or macattack is playing.. why not? j/k
16:59 <z-man> macattack is banned :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
17:07 <spidey> you could kick spidey
17:07 <spidey> he's a annoying little shit
17:08  * z-man kicks spidey
17:08 <spidey> lol
17:10  * spidey is going home in the morning
17:10 <spidey> atleast i'll be able to keep up with low pingers then
17:10 <spidey> :D
17:11  * spidey throws a baseball at z-man 
17:11 <z-man> That reminds me, I saw a bat today!
17:11 <spidey> lmfao
17:12 <z-man> Didn't know they lived in cities, too.
17:12 <spidey> ne either
17:12 <spidey> i see them all the time at home
17:12  * spidey lies in the sticks :/
17:12 <z-man> heh
17:12 <spidey> s/lies/lives
17:13 <spidey> i'm glad i left spidey_ in here
17:13 <z-man> yawn, gtg2bed
17:13 <spidey> i keep forgetting my ip at home :/
17:13 <z-man> So you see your computer is up?
17:13 <spidey> no,so i can get my ip
17:13 <spidey> lol
17:14 <spidey> ggkthnxbbq
17:22 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
17:22 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 57?F / 14?C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: 29.44in / 997hPa | Conditions: Light Rain Showers | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 7:00 PM ADT; Tonight - Periods of rain ending this evening then cloudy with a few showers beginning near midnight. Risk of thundershowers early this evening. Amount 5 to 10 mm. Fog patches. Wind east 30 km/h gusting to 50 (1 more message)
17:23 <spidey> hmm
17:23 <spidey> i'm switching to DSL
17:23 <Vanhayes> #more
17:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: becoming light this evening. Low 10.; Sunday - Showers. Amount 5 mm. Fog patches. Wind southwest 20 km/h. High 15. UV index 3 or moderate. Sunday night..cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers. Fog patches. Wind west 20 km/h. Low 10.; Monday - Cloudy with 60 percent chance of showers. High 20.;
17:23 <spidey> it's $10 cheaper and i'll get double the speed
17:23 <spidey> Up to 6 Mbps/
17:23 <spidey> 512 Kbps
17:23 <spidey> FastAccess
17:23 <spidey> DSL Xtreme 6.0
17:23 <spidey> $46.95 
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> bats live under the bridges all over austin.  They're the reason our hockey team is called the Austin Icebats
17:28 <wrtlprnft> spidey: ever heard of dynDNS for getting your ip? ;)
17:35 <spidey> i got one
17:36 <spidey> but i pointed it to this ip cause i run a TS server
17:36 <spidey> and i don't feel like giving a new ip out
17:51 -!- me [n=manu@p54A0A1D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
17:51 <spidey> you
17:51 <spidey> what about them?
17:52 <me> someone has this auto install package for me?
17:54 <me> spidey you perhaps?
17:55 <spidey> ?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> manu: consider youself de- tarned :P
17:55 <wrtlprnft> n=manu@p54A0A1D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
17:55 <spidey> it's on the site,look for the version you want with a .package ending
17:56 <me> wrtlprnft: yes with an older kanotix version
17:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
17:56 <me> client?
17:56 <wrtlprnft> yep
17:56 -!- me is now known as The_ManU|me
18:03 <The_ManU|me> wrtlprnft: /usr/share/autopackage/apkg-funclib: line 730: 11910 Speicherzugriffsfehler  autopackage-frontend-gtk "$@"
18:07 <wrtlprnft> gah. that's the gui
18:07 <wrtlprnft> there's an option to disable it somewhere
18:07 <The_ManU|me> wrtlprnft: and what caused the error, or ehat IS the error?
18:08 <wrtlprnft> the error is that the gui of autopackage is buggy
18:08 <wrtlprnft> so you need to disable it
18:08 <The_ManU|me> ???
18:08 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872B72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:08 <The_ManU|me> but it worked some hours ago?
18:08 <The_ManU|me> perhaps you gave me an another link
18:08 <The_ManU|me> then i downloaded now?
18:09 <wrtlprnft> another machine, right?
18:09 <spidey> holy shit
18:09 <spidey> i'm rich
18:09 <The_ManU|me> oO
18:09 <spidey> i just checked my paypal account
18:09 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:09 <spidey> <me> wrtlprnft: yes with an older kanotix version
18:09 <spidey> wait
18:09 <The_ManU|me> wrtlprnft: no, another os 
18:09 <The_ManU|me> ok
18:09 <spidey> Balance: 	$0.02 USD
18:09 <spidey> RICH!
18:09 <The_ManU|me> lol
18:10 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:10 <The_ManU|me> congratulations
18:10 <wrtlprnft> who donated?
18:10 <spidey> lmao
18:10 <wrtlprnft> -taxes and fees $0.01 i guess
18:10 <spidey> no one,it's what i have left outta $30
18:11 <spidey> i take $30 a month outta the bank to pay for webhosting/gameserver hosting
18:11 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU|me: try calling the sh command with -t
18:13 <The_ManU|me> wrtlprnft: nothing happend
18:13 <The_ManU|me> just a new prompt
18:13 <wrtlprnft> and there you chose?
18:13 <wrtlprnft> 2, right?
18:14 <The_ManU|me> 1
18:15 <wrtlprnft> weird
18:15 <wrtlprnft> installs just fine for me
18:15 <The_ManU|me> wrtlprnft: worked now, what did -t do?
18:16 <wrtlprnft> The_ManU|me: force the terminal installer
18:16 <wrtlprnft> not the GUI one
18:16 <wrtlprnft> the gui one fails for some people, though it works fine for me
18:17 <The_ManU|me> and did the gui one installed something?
18:18 <wrtlprnft> probably not
18:18 <wrtlprnft> it segfaulted
18:19 <wrtlprnft> it's supposed to show you a dialog asking if you wanna install it system-wide or just for the user
18:19 <wrtlprnft> if that dialog didn't come up it certainly didn't install anything
18:21 -!- The_ManU|me [n=manu@p54A0A1D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Excess Flood]
18:22 -!- The_ManU|me [n=manu@p54A0A1D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:49 <Vanhayes> #google fight The godfather Scarface
18:49 <armabot> Vanhayes: Error: Unexpected error from Google; please report this to the Supybot developers.
18:49 <wrtlprnft>  #google fight "The godfather" Scarface
18:50 <Vanhayes> space
18:50 <Vanhayes> #google fight "The godfather" Scarface
18:50 <armabot> Vanhayes: The godfather: 39900000, Scarface: 15500000
18:57 -!- The_ManU|me [n=manu@p54A0A1D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:34 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034184175.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:39 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:39 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
21:03 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
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23:00 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180010.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
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Log from 2006-06-11:
--- Day changed Sun Jun 11 2006
02:13 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
02:49 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good morning everyone
03:37 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
04:15  * Lucifer_arma is back.
05:00 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:23 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
05:41 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: MirrorX appears to be MIA, so it's removed from fetch.php for now
07:06 <spidey> woot
07:06 <spidey> bbl,on my way home
07:06 -!- spidey [n=spider@24-176-114-20.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
07:22 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
07:22 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
08:04 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
08:12 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ok, thanks
09:02 <spidey_> FINALLY!
09:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:08 <wrtlprnft> ah
09:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey_: back home?
09:09  * wrtlprnft is amazed: spidey_ gets a chance for having some real life, instead he hangs around some old modem all day and is happy as hell to get back home
09:15 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/what.php
09:15 <wrtlprnft> omg, I'm never pasting in there again
09:15 <wrtlprnft> > Keep in mind that any posts to the public pastebin (http://pastebin.ca/) are considered to be placed into the public domain.
09:23 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
09:38 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@66-168-145-125.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> "I'm better than you".
10:05  * Lucifer_arma loves arrogant people, really.
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> if I didn't love arrogant people, I couldn't love myself, now could I?
10:18 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [i=blah@adsl-71-145-185-63.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
10:19 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: looks like I'm not getting email notifications from the forums now, is it just me or is it affecting everybody?
10:19 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: no errors, like it normally gets when email doesn't work
10:23 <guru3> i don't know
10:23 <guru3> cause i don't get them myself
10:32 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
10:32 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-134-23.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:07 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:28 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
11:30 -!- spidey_ is now known as Spidey
11:38 <Spidey> test
11:38 <Spidey> #ping
11:38 <armabot> pong
11:50  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know what he wants to do with his server this time
12:11 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
12:12 <Lucifer_arma> hi philippeqc 
12:12 <philippeqc> hello
12:13 <philippeqc> he! was it you, incognito, who told me that "cycle size was a good idea"?
12:13 <philippeqc> like last weekend
12:14 <philippeqc> or rather "you where right about cycle width"
12:20 <philippeqc> z-man: you seem on a rool of experimentation. 
12:21 <z-man> Hehe, yeah.
12:21 <philippeqc> first cycle width, then break-away speed.
12:21 <z-man> No, I was rubble.
12:21 <z-man> (got the idea when Lucifer_arma mistyped "in trouble" as "int rouble")
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> that why you asked why I accepted the poll?  ;)
12:22 <philippeqc> what will be next
12:22 <z-man> so now im actuall "int ruouble;" or just Rubble.
12:22 <z-man> You kickvoted me? :)
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> I accepted it :)
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> something told me you weren't just some random noob, and I thought it would be fun :)
12:22 <philippeqc> 'tis dangerous to kick vote someone who can code you out of the game ;)
12:23  * Lucifer_arma needs to think up a new name again, heh
12:23 <z-man> Well, my GF was browsing the web, so my Lag made me act like a goddam noob
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> I even checked ping to see if it could be definitively you, so I was at least partially on to you, heh
12:23  * philippeqc wonders at the type of pages z-man's gf is browsing to need so much bandwidth.
12:23 <philippeqc> ;)
12:23 <z-man> We only have low bandwidth :)
12:24 <z-man> And a 266 Mhz PC as router...
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> she browses text-only pages made in 1994 and his ping shoots to 1000
12:24 <z-man> along that lines, yes.
12:24  * Lucifer_arma needs to stop nibbling the inside of his cheeks, that stuff hurts when you put mouthwash in there!
12:24 <philippeqc> humm, time to shell 12 euros for a router maybe?
12:25 <Lucifer_arma> a router that only has a 266mhz microprocessor in it?
12:25 <z-man> Bah, that wouldn't improve things much
12:25 <philippeqc> naa, must be the bandwidth that is limiting
12:25 <z-man> I could mess with the QOS bits.
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> my 2 year old can take his shirts off now, that's neat
12:26  * z-man is off for dinner
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> he probably could for awhile, he was just hiding the fact from me
12:26  * philippeqc confuse the internal bandwidth and cpu need router between multi-nets and router to modem ;)
12:27 <philippeqc> watch out, you'll have a streaker during the summer!
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> all small kids are streakers :)
12:28  * Lucifer_arma goes to play some fortress
12:28 <philippeqc> yeah, but now he finally figured out how to do it
12:44 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: you got my armabot message?
12:44 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
12:47 <philippeqc> yes
12:47 <philippeqc> thanks for the note
12:48 <wrtlprnft> yw
12:48 <wrtlprnft> just figured it out by random and thought you might wanna know that
12:48 <wrtlprnft> *found it out
12:49 <wrtlprnft> looks like this is left out in the c++ annotations :(
12:50 <philippeqc> I had actually found that about set. But yours has an example and avoid subclassing shared_ptr (I was trying that)
12:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
12:51 <philippeqc> and FooPtrOps will save me lots of work. Didnt know it needed 2 method.
12:51 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't need both
12:51 <wrtlprnft> brb
12:52 <philippeqc> that explains why my ::operator< for my comp wasnt called. It is not in the struct.
12:53 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: you only need one I think, but that class is used in different spots IIRC and only one is needed
12:53 <wrtlprnft> per spot
12:53 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't hurt to define them all :)
12:54 <philippeqc> well, I only had one, and it wasnt the one called ;)
12:54  * wrtlprnft thinks you'll figure it out :)
12:57 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034167138.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
13:03  * Lucifer_arma loves knee-jerk reactions
13:04  * Spidey is a knee-jerk
13:05 <Vanhayes> what is a knee-jerk reaction?
13:07 <[NP]Tangent> hey
13:08 <[NP]Tangent> would one of you guys mind testing something for me?
13:08 <[NP]Tangent> in another server window, /server tangentirc.gotdns.com
13:08 <[NP]Tangent> just gotta see if people can connect there
13:10 <wrtlprnft> I can join
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> a knee-jerk reaction is when someone shows up to fortress, plays two rounds, and then declares how much they hate the change.  :)
13:12 <wrtlprnft> aka psyko
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's usually the result of a change being different enough to disrupt the old order of things, and a natural resistence to learning new things
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> people most likely to exhibit knee-jerk reactions are the same people who show general tendencies to hate many things, black people, gay people, country music, etc.
13:12 <Spidey> i love                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
13:12 <Spidey>                                                                                                                                                                      
13:13 <Spidey> fuv\ck
13:13 <Spidey> damnkeyboard
13:13 <Spidey> i love the new change
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> people least likely to have knee-jerk reactions are people who generally like to learn new things and do new things, and accept things that are beyond their experience and try to assimilate them into their lives
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> nevertheless, anyone can have a knee-jerk reaction.
13:13 <Vanhayes> well I hate country mousic but I'm fine with all those others
13:14 <Spidey> van
13:14 <Spidey> grind damn you
13:14 <Vanhayes> no
13:14 <Spidey> yes
13:14 <Lucifer_arma> Spidey: you grind
13:14 <Spidey> i just died cause of you :/
13:14 <Spidey> trying to seal that hole :/
13:14 <Lucifer_arma> I want to see a wall put right in the front of the team with a little teeny tiny hole only large enough to fit one cycle (the center)
13:14 <Spidey> i can't grind if van don't :p
13:14 <Vanhayes> dont blame me for your incompatence
13:14 <wrtlprnft> you guys know armagetron has a builtin chat feature?
13:14 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see what new tactics people come up with then
13:15 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they're playing under aliases and don't want people to know?
13:15 <wrtlprnft> /msg ?
13:15 <Lucifer_arma> well, some people don't have tab completion, the barbarians
13:15 <Lucifer_arma> and /msg is a pain without it
13:15 <wrtlprnft> their fault
13:15 <Lucifer_arma> I know, but what can you do?
13:15 <Lucifer_arma> besides release 0.3...
13:15 <[NP]Tangent> they are not cavemen
13:16 <[NP]Tangent> they can have the technology
13:16 <[NP]Tangent> of tab completion
13:16 <wrtlprnft> instant chat keys?
13:16 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can lead a man to water, but you can't make him drink.
13:16 <wrtlprnft> INSTANT_CHAT_KEY_1_42 /msg somenickpart \
13:16 <Lucifer_arma> witness the continuing love of doublegrinding beyond all rational sense
13:16 <Vanhayes> people like to go fast, what can you do?
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> piss on them?
13:17 <Spidey> wrtrl since when?
13:17 <wrtlprnft> Spidey: ?
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> since awhile, the backslash was added for 0.2.8, wasn't it?
13:17 <Spidey> when did tron get a chat feature?
13:17 <wrtlprnft> long before i was born
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> you have to build it yourself for that
13:18 <Spidey> oh
13:18 <Spidey> guess i don't have it then :/
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> if all these people that doublegrind are so much better than me, why do they care what I think, then?
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> is it just so they can say "We're better than you, so you have to listen to us"?
13:23 <Spidey> better?
13:24 <Spidey> 1 adjust fixes that
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, better than me
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> better players I assume
13:24 <Vanhayes> not better just faster
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, they're telling me they're better
13:24  * Spidey is gonna adjust on van
13:24 <Spidey> hahaha
13:24 <Spidey> he beat it
13:25 <Vanhayes> that was a pussy grind
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> I guess deep down inside I'm just a sucky player, eh?
13:25 <Spidey> yea
13:25 <Vanhayes> not that deep down
13:26 <Vanhayes> guess no more Double grinding for me spidey
13:26 <Spidey> :p
13:27 <Spidey> i love you van
13:27 <Spidey> with half my tron heart
13:28 <Vanhayes> only half?
13:28 <Spidey> yes
13:29 <Spidey> the other half goes to lucifer
13:29 <MaZuffeR> Spidey:  :'(
13:29 <Spidey> maz gets my real heart xD
13:29 <MaZuffeR> :D
13:40 <Spidey> maz come hep me pwn luci
13:41 <MaZuffeR> nah, the soccer game starts soon
13:42 <Vanhayes> heh soccer, not football?
13:42 <MaZuffeR> soccer, so that spidey would understand
13:42 <Spidey> i know what it is :p
13:42 <Spidey> i had to watch it in spanish all week
13:43 <Vanhayes> why is soccer so popular in europe?
13:43 <MaZuffeR> 'cause it's the best sport of course
13:43 <Spidey> lol
13:43 <wrtlprnft> why are baseball, football and hockey so popular in america?
13:43 <Vanhayes> u can use your hands...
13:44 <wrtlprnft> why are sports popular at all? I think they're rather boring :P
13:45 <Spidey> i like basketball
13:45 <Vanhayes> I likie boxing the most
13:46  * wrtlprnft likes boxing too in arma
13:47 <Spidey> like i'ma box alf if he doesn't leave me more room?
13:47 <wrtlprnft> anyways, new change to tab completion in the trunk: you can complete the contents of comfig items on the console
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> soccer's popular in europe for the same reason there are so many european fortress players:
13:51 <Spidey> why do  people argue when i'm the one giving the break command? i think i would know who broke and not
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> they get lower ping
13:51 <Spidey> lol
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> but what do I know?  I'm just the suckiest fortress player around...
13:52 <Vanhayes> so soccer is popular because of low ping?
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> precisely!
13:52 <MaZuffeR> yea, soccer is really hard if you lag
13:53 <wrtlprnft> brain lag is especially bad
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's not like football, where lag isn't that big a deal because it takes 5 minutes to setup a play anyway
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> then 20 seconds of action, then 5 more minutes waiting for the refs to figure out what happened
13:56 <wrtlprnft> and that's what you guys call sport :P
13:57 <Vanhayes> not what I call a sport
13:58 <wrtlprnft> i meant US americans :P
13:58 <Vanhayes> #canada
13:58 <armabot>  4 
14:00 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:08 <Vanhayes> #weather
14:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: (weather <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city.
14:08 <Spidey> lucifer?
14:08 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
14:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 57?F / 14?C | Humidity: 94% | Pressure: 29.41in / 996hPa | Conditions: Overcast | Wind Direction: SE | Wind Speed: 6mph / 9km/h | Updated: 4:00 PM ADT; Tonight - A few showers and drizzle ending near midnight then cloudy with 40 percent chance of showers. Fog patches. Wind becoming west 20 km/h early this evening. Temperature steady near 12.; Monday - Cloudy with sunny (1 more message)
14:08 <Vanhayes> #more
14:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: periods. 60 percent chance of showers in the afternoon. High 21. UV index 6 or high. Monday night..cloudy. Low 13.; Tuesday - A mix of sun and cloud. High 21.;
14:08 <Spidey> asshole
14:13 <wrtlprnft> z-man: the different CYCLE_DELAY settings thing is pretty hairy to implement, it seems. The AIs only decide in which direction they wanna turn if they can turn, but with different cycle_delay settings they have no way of knowing before...
14:14 <z-man> The AIs are of lesser importance. And they can decide to turn at the earlierst possibility, it wouldn't disturb their play much
14:14 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034167138.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:16 <wrtlprnft> so just give them (CanTurnRight && CanTurnLeft) as condition?
14:20 <Spidey> in september my connection's getting doubled :D
14:20  * Lucifer_arma core dumped on the floor for 1 points.
14:20 <Spidey> z-man, how do you calc. the max players you can hold again?
14:20 <wrtlprnft> in 20 days I'll have <100 ping of BF fortress :P
14:21 <Spidey> wejp, my ping should go down,i'll have over 600kb/s down and 60-70kb/s up
14:21 <Spidey> right now i have 380kb/s down and 24kb/s up
14:21 <Spidey> wrrtl*
14:21 <Spidey> fucking keynoard
14:22 <wrtlprnft> Spidey: sec
14:23 <GodTodd> 380 down?
14:23 <GodTodd> wow
14:23 <Spidey> dude
14:23 <wrtlprnft> Spidey: <number of teammates in the zone> * 2 - <number of enemies in the zone> * 3
14:23 <Spidey> at my moms house,i had a 16 ping on my sever
14:24 <wrtlprnft> if it's >= 0 you can hold the fortress
14:24 <Spidey> no,the number of people my server can hold
14:24 <wrtlprnft> the smaller the result the faster it will be conquered
14:25 <Spidey> i wanted to know the max players a server would hold
14:25 <Spidey> like how to calculate i
14:25 <wrtlprnft> sec
14:25 <Spidey> it*
14:25 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Advanced_Server_Administration_Guide#Bandwidth_Limiting
14:25 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, we have documentation on that?!?
14:25 <Spidey> lol
14:25 <Spidey> i can't click that
14:26 <Spidey> my mouse went out on this box :/
14:26  * Lucifer_arma wrote the first draft of it :)
14:26  * Spidey has to tab everything
14:26 <wrtlprnft> use screen and irssi :P
14:26 <wrtlprnft> there you can copy and paste no problem without a mouse
14:26 <wrtlprnft> or you just dig out your chatlogs
14:26 <Spidey> well
14:27 <Spidey> i think i can hold 16
14:27 <wrtlprnft> or you type it by hand
14:27 <Spidey> i can hold 8 now 
14:27 <Spidey> with very little lag
14:27 <wrtlprnft> how much upstream?
14:27 <Spidey> 8 = number i've tried
14:27 <Spidey> i'll have 60-70kb/s up
14:27 <Spidey> now i have 30kb/s (what i held 8 people on)
14:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 70 / 6
14:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 70 / 6 = 11.6666667
14:28 <Spidey> i can do more....
14:28 <wrtlprnft> 11 people if they each use 6kb/s upstream
14:28 <Spidey> #g 30/6
14:28 <armabot> Spidey: 30 / 6 = 5
14:29 <Spidey> see there it says 5 on the current connection,i've did 8 np before
14:29 <wrtlprnft> if they all start mazing at the same time they'll lag out
14:29 <Spidey> heh
14:29 <Spidey> the setting i use take care of that
14:29 <Spidey> :p
14:30 <wrtlprnft> cycle_delay 1?
14:30 <Spidey> no...
14:30 -!- vircuser [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
14:30 <wrtlprnft> that'll help a bunch
14:30 <Spidey> the delay's .01
14:30 <wrtlprnft> ARENA_AXES 1?
14:30 <wrtlprnft> that will get rid of all lag
14:30 -!- vircuser is now known as GodTodd_
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> cycle_accel -1 will also get rid of all lag
14:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
14:31 <wrtlprnft> it won't
14:31 <Spidey> not really, the accel/speed/rubber settings i use 
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the best way to get rid of lag is to press shift-escape
14:31 <wrtlprnft> MAGIC_LAG_PREVENTION 1 will get rid of it
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that works pretty well, too
14:31 <Spidey> and arena size
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> but you have to be hooked up to FTL internet
14:32 <wrtlprnft> ARRENA_SIZE -100 will get rid of it as well
14:32 <wrtlprnft> especially with teamplay
14:32 <Spidey> hhahahaha
14:32 <Spidey> no thanks
14:32 <Spidey> :p
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> cycle_rubber -10 helps a lot, too
14:32 <wrtlprnft> that works?
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> yep
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's an....interesting game
14:32 <wrtlprnft> kill all instantly?
14:32 <wrtlprnft> cycle_speed 1e100 will get rid of it as well
14:32 <Spidey> arena size = -3 rubber = 8 cycle_speed = 20 cycle_accel = 10
14:33 <Spidey> that's the setting i use
14:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, WALLS_LENGTH 1e-100
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> switch cycle_speed and cycle_accel and you're just about at my old breakfast in hell settings
14:33 <Spidey> heh
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> of course, now that I'm older and more experienced, I realized something very important.
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> HiGh RuBBeR Is LaME!1111!!one!one
14:34 <Spidey> 8 isn't really that high....
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> not compared to MBC's 50
14:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah :(
14:34 <Spidey> 47*
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> 50!?!??  CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT SHIT?
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> er
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> sorry bout the caps
14:34 <Spidey> it's 47 :p
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> it was 50 the other night
14:35 <Spidey> i think
14:35 <wrtlprnft> I don't like the mbc server anymore since the rubber increases at a rate of 10/month
14:35 <Spidey> i haven't been in there in along time
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> not 5.0, like what people normally mean
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> but 50-fucking.0 rubber!
14:35 <Spidey> yea
14:35 <Spidey> i pwn on mbc
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> it was boring as hell
14:35 <wrtlprnft> i usually win if i play
14:35 <Spidey> playing on fortress and other low rubber servers and doing alot of mazing
14:36 <wrtlprnft> last time about a month ago :P
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> then I made a spiral box, and they said "don't camp"
14:36 <Spidey> then goto mbc and they can't trap me :D
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> I said "it was open!"
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, really, when somebody makes an open spiral box, that's an invitation to come inside
14:36 <wrtlprnft> so you can trap them in there?
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> yes!  that's the whole point!
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> and to show how much of a badass you think your are, of course
14:36  * Spidey would go inside it
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> I would too!
14:37 <Spidey> i'd make it out to
14:37 <Spidey> and you'd be dead :p
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> now, if I had really closed myself in, sure, that's camping, no argument there
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> not my box, baby
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> you wouldn't make it out of my box
14:37 <Spidey> wanna bet? :p
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> but then again, neither would I
14:37 <wrtlprnft> haha
14:37  * Lucifer_arma gets lost in his own boxes, it's true
14:38 <Spidey> it's almost impossible to kill me on mbc
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's almost impossible to kill anybody on mbc
14:38 <Spidey> due to high rubber and i have good rubber control :p
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> what were they thinking when they cranked the rubber way up?
14:38  * Spidey can maze all day :/
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> "let's make it easy for noobs"
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> I guess it's a noob-friendly server, now.  As long as noobs fight all the time and never cuss, tht is
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> and we know new players definitely fight without cussing, without exception, every one of them!
14:39 <Spidey> hhheh
14:39 <Spidey> i can't really say much about mbc
14:39 <GodTodd_> how about cursing without fighting? :)
14:39 <Spidey> a few of them are great players
14:39 <Spidey> and i learned most of everything i know about low rubber servers from those few
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> that's what they do on SP, isn't it?
14:40 <wrtlprnft> at least mbc doesn't buy its members like sp does
14:40 <Spidey> true
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> ?  how do you buy a clanmember?
14:40  * wrtlprnft looks at joda_bot
14:40 <Spidey> hahaha
14:40 <wrtlprnft> no, the other way, they *sell* the membership
14:40 <Spidey> eally?
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> what, you have to give them money to be in SP?
14:41 <Spidey> really*
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm waaaaay too cheap for that, hah
14:41 <Spidey> before sp broke up
14:41 <Spidey> i got banned :)
14:41 <Spidey> for pwning x3r and bragging
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, for bragging, we know, you've been bragging about it every since
14:41 <Spidey> hahah
14:41 <Spidey> i have?
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think a day goes by when you don't smile and remember it
14:42 <Spidey> lol
14:42 <wrtlprnft> gah, yesterday i got kicked from a bzflag server for having 150ms lag
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> so how do you determine if you're better than another player in a team game, anyway?
14:42 <Spidey> you don't
14:43 <Spidey> and what's that got to do with free for all servers?
14:43 <Spidey> the team is equal,if one member fucks up we all have a fuck up
14:43 <Spidey> then again
14:43 <GodTodd_> being better than someone in a team game is directly proportional to the amount of deflating your ego needs
14:43 <Spidey> sometimes i've seen people support a entire team
14:44 <wrtlprnft> GodTodd_: really sure? I think it's an exponential function
14:44 <GodTodd_> that could be as well ;)
14:44 <Spidey> i think you should use broken english,so i know what the hell you just said
14:44 <Spidey> xD
14:44 <GodTodd_> guess it depends on how loudly you spout it :)
14:45 <GodTodd_> at 380kb/s down....have you even seen what i said yet? :D
14:45 <Spidey> ?
14:46 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
14:46 <Spidey> LOL
14:46 <Spidey> wrong window
14:46 <GodTodd_> w00t...got me name bac
14:46 <GodTodd_> back*
14:46 -!- GodTodd_ is now known as GodTodd
14:47 <Spidey> hahahah
14:47 <Spidey> if i turn the mixer all the way up 
14:47 <Spidey> and the desktop speakers
14:47 <Spidey> i overload my stereo
14:48 <Spidey> :-s
14:48 <Spidey> it's got hella bass though
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> I think the ony way you can rate a person's abilities in a team game is if they refuse to play as part of a team, then you can rate their performance as an individual
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> but in my personal scale, that rates them the lowest, because I rate people by how well they function on a team
14:49 <Spidey> lemme ask you another question
14:49 <Spidey> what if the team refuses to play as a team?
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> which means, of course, that I may think you're the shit one day, and nothing but shit another day, depending on the team and stuff
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> depends on what you mean by that.  :)  I've seen teams not play as a team because they didn't know what they were doing,
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> or they had an asshole as center who kept killing them and they couldn't get enough votes to kick him.
14:50 <Spidey> i mean,7people pissed at each other and killing each other
14:50 <Spidey> that leaves 1 actually playing
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> I've seen teams refuse to play as teams where they just didn't do any kind of concentration of force or anything, and I've taken what was actually lesser players against them and won
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, sounds like you have a server with 7 players that should go do something else :)
14:50 <Spidey> LOL
14:51 <Spidey> yea
14:51 <Spidey> for somereason i'm nowhere near as good as i used to be
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> you're starting to suck the same way I do
14:51 <Spidey> i used to be able to handle 6 people by myself,now if the team fails,i usually fail
14:52 <MaZuffeR> that is because everyone else got better
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you're starting to suck like I do
14:52 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [No route to host]
14:52 <Spidey> lol maz
14:52 <MaZuffeR> i haven't improved my game in 3 months or so
14:52 <Spidey> i think it's because i played soldat for 3 months and didn't touch tron
14:52 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
14:52 <Spidey> you still kick my ass
14:52 <Spidey> lol
14:53 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> the problem with MaZuffeR isn't that his moves are particularly neat or whatever, it's that he's been around so long, he literally knows what you're going to do before you know what you're going to do,
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> and counters it
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> he's beyond neat little lag tricks and stuff
14:54 <Spidey> heh
14:55 <Spidey> i know a way to kill maz :p
14:55 <Spidey> when he's defense
14:55 <MaZuffeR> the funny thing is that I don't do it conciously (sp?), it just happens
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> so do I, get him to run into my wall, that's easy enough
14:55 <Spidey> people say circling people makes defense stronger
14:55 <Spidey> it's a lie :)
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> well if you took time to think about it, we'd kill you while you were thinking about it :)
14:55 <MaZuffeR> probably
14:56 <Spidey> maz kicks my ass in soldat too :/
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> man, you're on a different level than I am, I think I get you 1 out of 4 times if I'm lucky, the rest of the time I'm lucky to survive the encounter, let alone keep you away from the zone
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm known to be the suckiest player around
14:56 <Spidey> true
14:57 <MaZuffeR> now I've gotten that good at soldat that lag starts to bother me
14:58 <wrtlprnft> omg
14:58 <Spidey> MaZuffeR, you should come in now
14:58 <Spidey> you haven't seen lag yet
14:58 <wrtlprnft> testing stuff i do in b0_2_8 isn't fun :(
14:58 <Spidey> hyper-gaming's fucked up
14:58 <wrtlprnft> awful font, no completion... bah!
14:58 <MaZuffeR> second half of the soccer game starting now
14:59 <Spidey> if soccer is football then football is what?
14:59 <Spidey> rephrase
14:59 <Spidey> if our soccer is your football then what is our football/
14:59 <Spidey> ?
14:59 <z-man> American Football
14:59 <MaZuffeR> american football
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> they're too smart to play something like that
14:59 <Spidey> lol
14:59 <z-man> No, we're not :(
15:00 <Spidey> hahaha
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:00 <z-man> We've got the Cologne Centurions....
15:00 <z-man> Or Centurios
15:00 <z-man> Can't remember which were Zylons and which Romans :)
15:00 <MaZuffeR> the team form my old town are called Butchers
15:00 <MaZuffeR> *from
15:03 <Spidey> brb,water/piss (and no i'm not drinking my piss!!)
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> what, he's gonna pour water into the toilet and flush it?
15:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> that's what i thought too
15:07 <Spidey> no....
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> pour his water into the toilet, flush the toilet, then piss in his cup?
15:08 <Spidey> we buy bottled water cause our well water has to much iron
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> we have a water purification system
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> it's part of our water bill
15:09 <Spidey> well
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> you know, you live in a MUD, they purify your water for you...
15:09 <Spidey> we don't pay for water
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> must be nice to live in a place where water is free....
15:09 <Spidey> we pay for the electricity to pump the water out of the ground
15:09 <Spidey> it's called spring water
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> you have electricity out there?
15:09 <Spidey> :|
15:10  * Lucifer_arma chuckles a little bit
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> I come from the desert, where water is such an important natural resource that they've made sure only corrupt government contractors handle the region's supply
15:12 <Spidey> heh
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> they spent $30million to build a new reservoir that would be twice the capacity of the old one, right?
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> this reservoir holds what little rain they get, and some of the spring water coming off the mountains
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> then they handed it off to one of the most corrupt businesses in town, where they cut every cost to build it so they could pocket as much money as possible
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> within a month after building it, the reservoir cracked
15:13 <Spidey> heh
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> so now it holds only 1/3 of its capacity, about 1/2 of what the old reservoir held
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> and they tore down the old one!
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> in the fucking desert, and they're playing games with water
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> so now, you can only top off existing swimming pools.  If you build a new swimming pool, you have to have the water to fill it shipped in, you can't use what's in the reservoir
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> makes me want to invent moisture farming, like what they do in Star Wars
15:15 <Spidey> hahahaha
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> luckily I don't live in that shithole town any more, I live in river country now, where we only have to ration water a couple of months a year
15:16  * [Xpert]DarkStar loves switzerland where everyone has enough water at any time
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> corruption's just as bad, but at least there's enough water that if they play games with it, they won't wipe us all out
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> must be nice to have a glaciar sitting over your head giving you all the water you could ever want
15:17 <[Xpert]DarkStar> heh
15:18 <[Xpert]DarkStar> the glaciars aren't that big anymore
15:18 <Spidey> tennessee doesn't have water problems :p
15:18 <Spidey> then again we've got lots of rivers and streams :)
15:18 <Spidey> not to mention the tennessee river 5 minute walk away
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> if you're in the hill country or east texas, you're fine
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> west texas is pretty arid, and north of texas is oklahoma, which is a desert
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> come to think of it, west texas counts as desert too
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> but the hill country and east texas has lots of rivers
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> lots of little streams, too
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> the reservoir thing happened in Alamogordo, NM, though, which is in a desert
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> complete with sand dunes :)
15:21 <[Xpert]DarkStar> the glaciars aren't that big anymore
15:21 <[Xpert]DarkStar> errr oops
15:21 <[Xpert]DarkStar> arrow up + enter in the wrong window ><
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> there's a longstanding fight over water between west texas and New Mexico, because the few rivers and streams they have in west texas originate in new mexico
15:25  * MaZuffeR just killed his first mosquito this year
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA68B.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:26  * Lucifer_arma has been killing junebugs all month
15:26 <Spidey> only 11 days
15:26 <Spidey>  16:27:21 up 11 days, 23:42,  1 user,  load average: 0.04, 0.08, 0.01
15:27 <Spidey> heh,i installed mepis on the 1st
15:27 <Spidey> or was it the 31st
15:27 <Spidey> hmm
15:27 <MaZuffeR> last year i had like 30 mosquito bites on my right hand and 20 on the left one o_O
15:27 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B95B7.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <Spidey> lol
15:29 <MaZuffeR> that's what happens if you have an army camp on a swamp
15:30 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:59 <Spidey> big fish!
16:00  * [Xpert]DarkStar slaps Spidey around a bit with a large trout
16:01  * Spidey slaps [Xpert]DarkStar around a bit with a large cow
16:02  * [Xpert]DarkStar slaps Spidey around a bit with windows me
16:03 <Spidey> ew
16:03 <[Xpert]DarkStar> nasty, eh?
16:03 <Spidey> indeed
16:04 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hrhr
16:04 <Spidey> it's like getting slaped with a used condom
16:04 <[Xpert]DarkStar> used twice at least :P
16:04 <Spidey> :s
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> no,, it's more like getting slapped by the whore down the street.  Everybody's used her, most for nothing.
16:06 <[Xpert]DarkStar> ><
16:06 <Spidey> lol
16:07 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873896.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:09 <Spidey> damn lucifer,that slaps was so hard it knocked z-man out of here
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> he's sometime into next week now
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: does the rotation thing work yet?
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 36/4 :)
16:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 36/4
16:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 36 / 4 = 9
16:34 <Spidey> lol
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  ALl this change does is make gold win :)
16:57 <Spidey> ?
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's what madmax said, we just wasted blue team 2 matches in a row
16:57  * Spidey is watching a documentry on the nsa
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> everyone's saying "All this change does is <this>", where <this> is always something different
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> so that's what madmax volunteered
16:58  * Spidey wants the nsa super computers
16:58  * Spidey will come pwn gold
16:58  * Lucifer_arma wants a computer that can ray-trace arma in realtime
16:58 <Spidey> i'll put this movie on hold
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, I just stepped out again
16:58 <Spidey> :/
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> doing homework, or trying anyway
16:59 <Spidey> well
16:59 <Spidey> a super computer can try 1 trillion crypto strings in a few minutes
16:59 <Spidey> 'er
16:59 <Spidey> a few seconds
17:00 <Spidey> wait
17:00 <Spidey> 70 trillion
17:00 <Spidey> that's take a home computer 22,000 years to try all those keys
17:07 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good night everyone
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
17:42 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034167138.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
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19:44 -!- Spidey [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has left #armagetron ["skrew the best solute the rest"]
19:45 -!- Spidey [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
20:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
20:16 <Spidey> lol
20:23 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-119-125-11.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
20:23 <spidey_> yay for mac clone
20:23  * spidey_ loves getting kicked for killing a DGER
20:23 <MaZuffeR> hehe
20:24  * spidey_ goes back to fortress
20:26 <spidey_> lol
20:26 <spidey_> sheesh
20:26 <spidey_> now i'm getting kicked for killing a non-grinder and somehow overpassing center
20:26 <spidey_> oh well,another mac clone i guess
20:26 <spidey_> brb
20:28 -!- spidey__ [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
20:28  * spidey__ yawns
20:29 <spidey__> hmm
20:29 <spidey__> those 2 names need to timeout
20:30 <spidey__> maz are you whisper?
20:30 <MaZuffeR> yes
20:31 <spidey__> heh
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  We're playing a light cycle game where you accelerate by generating friction, and they're saying a speed boost when you break ruins the realism?
20:32 <spidey__> >?
20:32  * Lucifer_arma is glad the complainers don't live in this part of the country
20:33 <spidey__> you talking about tron?
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=58821#58821
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> do you know any other light cycle games where you accelerate by generating friction?
20:33 <spidey__> i can't click it
20:33 <spidey__> no mouse
20:33  * n54 likes the speed boost idea, not sure about width
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, just listen to people then, I'm sure you'll hear someone complain about how it ruins their realism
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> note, these are the same people who complained about cycle width, heh
20:33 <spidey__> i love the boost thing
20:34 <spidey__> even when mazin
20:34 <spidey__> it's fun
20:34  * Lucifer_arma just watched dumb and dumber, and had an easy time putting Psyko in Jim Carrey's role
20:34 <spidey__> hahahahha
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I gotta agree on the boost thing.  Even better when you're taking someone from behind :)
20:35 <spidey__> yup
20:35 <MaZuffeR> i didn't get to test the boost thing only attack :(
20:35 <Lucifer_arma> not sure, but I kinda think whatup goes in the other guy's role, the dog-tamer guy, because he's got a little more sense
20:35 <MaZuffeR> *on
20:35 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, just imagine the dismay of the doublegrinder next to you when you're going faster than he is because you didn't pass the center :)
20:36 <spidey__> yuo know
20:36 <spidey__> if i can bypass the ban you get for being kicked
20:36 <spidey__> anyone can
20:36 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but most smegheads can't figure it out, they're too busy jerking for the pleasure of having been kicked
20:36 <spidey__> lol
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh my god they kicked me, I'm cumming!  I'm cumming!"
20:37 <spidey__> hahah
20:37 <spidey__> well,i don't like zop,and he seems to think i HAVE to let him DG
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, if he'd ever *not* DG, he'd know by now that the break boost is better :)
20:37 <spidey__> and my ip can be anywhere from 24.xxx.xxx.xx 66.xxx.xxx.xxx and 68.xxx.xxx.xxx so i'm virtually unbannable unless you wanna ban thousands and thousands of people
20:38 <spidey__> actually that's millions i think
20:39 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, you don't have 63.therest in there, so I'm safe from your nuke ban
20:39 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:39 <spidey__> HAHAAHAH
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> just don't turn renegade on us, spidey
20:39 <spidey__> i'm not hh
20:39 <spidey__> heh'
20:39 -!- Spidey [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> you're timing out now
20:39 -!- spidey__ is now known as spidey
20:40 <spidey> no those 2 names are from mac clones
20:40 <spidey> that other one still needs to timeout
20:40 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I caught that.  You kept getting kicked and changing your mac address
20:40 <spidey> yer
20:41 <Lucifer_arma> what ever happened to pants, did z-man ban him?
20:41 <spidey> dunno
20:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe he just got busy with his daughter, his wife or whatever just had a baby girl a couple months ago or so
20:41 <dlh```> it's summertime, he probably switched to shorts.
20:41 <spidey> lol
20:41 <Lucifer_arma> heh
20:42  * Lucifer_arma suspects he's changed his name, but would be surprised if he had
20:42 <n54> huh 0.5 mechanical pencils are so much nicer for ordinary writing than 0.3 *is kind of amazed at that*
20:44 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-119-125-11.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:44 <spidey> are you Gaymosexual luci? lol
20:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's me :)
20:44 <spidey> hahahahah
20:44 <MaZuffeR> i can't really do anything if i would get banned, static ip address and I have to use this mac address to connect to internet
20:45 <dlh```> KICK BECAUSE OF NAME
20:45 <spidey> who's g337h3l3d0u7?
20:46 <n54> geetheledout? get the hell out?
20:46 <n54> gee the led out?
20:47 <n54> he's a terrible speller no matter what ^^
20:47 <spidey> lol
20:50 <GodTodd> maybe it's the swedish spelling ;)
20:52 <spidey> fucking shift+esc
20:53 <dlh```> why is everyone trying to kick you?
20:55 <spidey> kick who?
20:55 <spidey> me?
20:55 <dlh```> gaymosexual
20:55 <spidey> oh
20:55 <spidey> lol
20:56 <GodTodd> gaymophobic?
20:56 <GodTodd> :D
20:58 <n54> gaymobile?
20:59 <n54> and hi GodTodd et al. :)
20:59 <spidey> fagmobile sounds better
20:59  * GodTodd nods 'ello to n54.
20:59 <n54> gaymofaggafaggaratamobile?
20:59 <n54> that's an awesome name ^^
20:59 <spidey> hahahahaha
21:00 <spidey> i'ma rename to that in tron
21:00 <n54> girls would throw themselves in front of you while driving to stop you and pick you up lol
21:00 <spidey> LL
21:01  * spidey changed my name to A Lesbian
21:01 <GodTodd> yep....just act gay and all women want you....it's the most fucked up thing ;)
21:01  * spidey coredumped A Lesbian
21:01 <n54> that's an uncommon surname...
21:01 <spidey> lol
21:01 <GodTodd> how about Ira Carpetmuncher
21:02 <n54> Ira might be the weirdest?
21:03 <GodTodd> always liked Frank N. Furter myself
21:03 <n54> or is Ira common? 
21:03 <n54> hehe :)
21:03 <GodTodd> it's not...but funnier :P
21:04 <n54> sorry I don't get the Ira part :|
21:04 <GodTodd> I Are A...
21:05 <GodTodd> guess it's funnier to us yanks ;)
21:05 <n54> yeah I guess, "I are" just grates me :)
21:06 <GodTodd> well...probably comes from having to have like 20 years in school of a language we speak everyday so we like to play with it and fuck it up....just a little bit :D
21:07 <GodTodd> man am i a potty mouth tonight :/
21:09 <n54> mouthrunner ;)
21:12 <spidey> gaymopwn
21:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that was awesome
21:12 <Lucifer_arma> awww, nemo's not in here still?
21:13 <dlh```> .me
21:13 <spidey> yea
21:13  * dlh``` *
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> dlh is nemo?
21:13 <spidey> 'er
21:13 <spidey> looks like i might have to mac clone again
21:13 <spidey> :/
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, dlh``` they were just trying to kick over name
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> whatup and Sasha both went for teamkills, sasha got hers (his?)
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> I thought P4 was too, but I was wrong, no hard feelings
21:19 <spidey> my ex-step cousins name is sasha
21:19 <spidey> she's a girl
21:19 <spidey> heh
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> I know Sasha's a girl's name in the US....
21:20  * Lucifer_arma has a vague memory of Sasha being a boy's name in Russia
21:20 <MaZuffeR> Sasha is male, it's both a male and female name in Russia
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> heh, spidey's getting good at picking me out with my faker than normal names
21:22 <spidey> all i gotta do is compare pings and watch play
21:26 <spidey> hahahah
21:26 <spidey> you should have seen this move dude
21:26 <spidey> true teamwork
21:26 <spidey> sonar tricked him and i cut him off
21:32 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090ADD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:42 <spidey> sfather!
21:49 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090B25F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:49 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-65-116.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
21:51 <n54> hi mom :)
21:53 <Your_mom_arma> hi
21:54 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:18 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: no, it doesn't work yet
22:19 <wrtlprnft> it should do some basic parsing if there was a valid DTF
22:19 <wrtlprnft> *DTF
22:19 <wrtlprnft> *DTD
22:19  * wrtlprnft always manages to make the same mistake twice
22:25 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar_ [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
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22:39 <wrtlprnft> #m z-man* ok, I got the different CYCLE_DELAY settings thing working pretty well, gotta set up that network compatibility stuff (I'll copy that from CYCLE_WIDTH) and documentation. Are you gonna test that on bugfarm, too? Maybe just with a relatively slight difference so you don't get all the lag problems, or at least not too much
22:39 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:39 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:39 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you there?
22:53 <GodTodd> yeah
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> do you remember the name of that chess website we used to play through?
22:54 <spidey> damn dude
22:54 <spidey> that's the best few matches i've played in a very long time
22:54 <spidey> i actually had fun tonight
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> after I left?  :)
22:54 <GodTodd> shit....i'll have to think about it...
22:54 <spidey> yea
22:54 <spidey> lol
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> don't overstrain yourself, I can find something if you don't remember it off hand
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting kinda sick of people around here saying because they can beat me every now and then that they are better tacticians
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I can challenge them to Crimson Fields using the play by email feature, but Chess is a much more likely game, I think
22:56 <GodTodd> don't remember it right off hand
22:56 <GodTodd> been a while heh
22:56 <GodTodd> ;)
23:13 <Your_mom_arma> fun couple of matches
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> did you guys quit sucking when I left?  heh
23:14 <Your_mom_arma> yeah 
23:14 <spidey> ltwas fun
23:14 <Your_mom_arma> but it had more to do with the fact nemo started d and i took center
23:14 <spidey> you should come in more often :P
23:14 <spidey> great
23:15 <Your_mom_arma> luci is this the chess site? http://www.linuxuser.at/chess/
23:15 <spidey> you leave all the retarded people join
23:15 <spidey> :/
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's not it.  :(  It was a play by email site
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> so I'd move, then it sent him an email, and he'd move and it would send me an email
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> then I'd move, then he'd move, then I'd move again and say "checkmate"
23:18 <Your_mom_arma> so is 3.0 coming out or is 2.8.2 still in the works?
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> is still in the works
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> 0.3.0 will be a deelopment release, and you should only run it if you like bugs and want to participate in development in some part or other ;)
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> you'll want to run it, probably
23:19 <Your_mom_arma> :)
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> because you get the cockpit, a nice xml file that sets up what was formerly called the hud
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> and, to be honest, I'd like to see what kind of cockpit you'd put together :)
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, 0.3.x is marked unstable, and might blow up in your face at the worst times, so regular users that just want to play should steer clear of it
23:21 <Your_mom_arma> is anything compiled that i can download?
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> not yet, I just tagged it earlier.  We've got a QA team now that needs to do some sort of sanity check on it to make sure we're not releasing a total turd
23:22 <Your_mom_arma> luci did you see all the anthrax tour dates in texas?
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, about the same time I noticed they weren't coming within 400 miles of here
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> how hard can it be to go to Austin?
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> It's not like we're some podunk town in the middle of nowhere!
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> They're even bypassing both DFW and San Antone!
23:24 <GodTodd> must be the 'redneck' tour ;)
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> they're going to fucking wichita falls, dude
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> WICHITA FALLS
23:24 <Your_mom_arma> well they are touring with white zombie
23:25 <GodTodd> they at least hitting houston?
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they're going to houston.  That's their last stop in texas, iirc.
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> el paso, lubbock, amarillo, WICHITA FUCKING FALLS, and Houston, I think
23:25 <GodTodd> at least they hit ONE major city here then heh
23:26  * Lucifer_arma tells Your_mom_arma that Wichita Falls is a dinky little town in the middle of nowhere
23:26 <GodTodd> wichita falls is practically OK
23:27 <Your_mom_arma> anthrax always hits towns out in the middle of nowhere here as impossible as that sounds
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> not in the presence of a 9-year old promise to come back to Austin before 8 years had expired
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it was John Bush who made that promise, and he quit the band
23:29 <Your_mom_arma> supposedly, everythings unconfirmed 
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> as in, if they whine enough he might go back
23:29 <Your_mom_arma> hehe
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> dude, it's as sure as if your wife walked out on you saying you were hanging out with your ex-wife
23:30 <GodTodd> you forgot corpus christie and mcallen :D
23:31  * GodTodd is helpful. ;)
23:31 <GodTodd> of course...any tour that hits Council Bluffs IA is right at home in podunkville
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's fucking helpful
23:32 <GodTodd> belladonna is back?
23:32 <GodTodd> geesh
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, reunion tour
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> spitz, too
23:32 <GodTodd> saw that
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> apparently he's their timekeeper (heh)
23:33 <GodTodd> where the fuck is mokena IL??
23:34 <Your_mom_arma> for a touring band they have a terrible taste in venues
23:35 <GodTodd> they don't think they could sell out DFW or Austin, or what?
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.itsyourturn.com/
23:36 <GodTodd> that's it!
23:36 <GodTodd> :D
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> Pantera sold out Austin
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> they also hit San Antone and DFW in the same tour
23:37 <GodTodd> with or without dimebag?
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> and sold them all out
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> with, this was the concert 9 years ago where Anthrax promised to come back < 8 years
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> and lied...
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you should treat stage talk like pillow talk and just put your cock in it
23:38 <GodTodd> lol
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=58881#58881  <-- challenge issued to forum readers, at least
23:39 <GodTodd> these are the same people that will tell wichita falls 'you're the best fuckin' town to rock in'
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> they didn't used to have popups :(
23:41 <Your_mom_arma> godtodd they say that to every city
23:41 <GodTodd> exactly
23:41 <GodTodd> so why trust them to tell the truth?
23:41 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> this is the same band that paid out of their own pocket to play some shows in canada that Priest didn't want to hit, so when Priest took a break, Anthrax shelled out their own money to go
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> and took a loss/broke even, but played, "for the fans that love them"
23:43 <GodTodd> how long ago?
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, maybe we didn't want those yanks down here in the first place
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> Ummm, Priest tour, so sometime while I was in Washington State, anyway
23:44 <GodTodd> 'course it can't be for the money....how much can you make selling out wichita falls and council bluffs?
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> when the Ripper was with Priest
23:44 <GodTodd> dunno...i'm at a loss as to why they would pass us up
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> actually, we might make fun of Wichita Falls, but it's actually a good place to play.  :(
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> what I don't get is skipping DFW and one of [San Antone, Austin]
23:44 <GodTodd> true...i'm not saying DON'T hit them....but hit DFW, Austin, and SA for fuck's sake
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> how the hell can you afford to drive your tour bus across texas without stopping in DFW?
23:45 <GodTodd> i didn't know you could get gas east of El Paso until DFW :D
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it can get pretty tight :)
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> signs that say "130 miles to the next gas station"
23:46 <GodTodd> trust me, i know ;)
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> I'd be scared to try my truck down I-10
23:46 <GodTodd> we go 380 to NM
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> it has to stop about every hour for gas on a roadtrip like that
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> that the one that goes up over the sacramento mountains?
23:47 <GodTodd> yeah
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> You take I-20 out a ways, then turn off, and you wind up going through lovington, hobbes, and cloudcroft?
23:47 <GodTodd> yep, exactly
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> I remember that being a fun drive
23:47 <GodTodd> it's not bad
23:47 <GodTodd> 10-12 hours depending
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I made it in the middle of the night, and got stuck missing 3 gas stops due to non-24hour gas stations
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> almost ran out of gas :)
23:48 <GodTodd> we get to go through Throckmorton :D
23:48 <GodTodd> yeah...for all the oil rigs out there they sure don't keep alot of it
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> of course, if you go down I-10 and then break off a couple of hours east of el paso you can get on that same route in new mexico,
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> but you drive a little 2-lane highway that's literally perfectly straight for 100 miles
23:49 <GodTodd> that would suck
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> check the alignment on your car, you won't have to steer once on that road
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, it's so weird it has it's own little novelty
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> not even an interstate is that straight
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> at least, I've driven on most of the interstates in the west and never seen anything like it
23:50 <GodTodd> we just have to fill up when we leave, then in Post, then when we leave alamo, then post again
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, when it's a route you know....  :)
23:50 <GodTodd> though...this last trip we had 3 construction lights on the two lane
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> we usually fill up i Fort Stockton and take a rest break somewhere near el paso
23:50 <GodTodd> that slowed us down a bit
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> of course,w e go a different route.  Your route would add 3 hours to the drive for us
23:51 <GodTodd> yep....you're down south there :P
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> but 290W is a beautiful highway, out through fredricksburg
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> I got up to 120 on I-10 one time.  :)  Well, several times.  blazed through ozona, socorro, and another town
23:52 <GodTodd> heh
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> after I picked up the first ticket (for 98, he got me after a curve), I slowed down and still made Fort stockton in 3 hours
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> normally it's 5.5 hours there
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> After I picked up the second ticket, the rest of the trip went as usual
23:53 <GodTodd> i got clocked in MO once in my old voyager at 79 in a 65....the cop asked if i knew how fast i was going and i almost told him 'yeah...shoulda seen how fast i was going before i saw you'
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> got the third ticket on the way back.  Stopped a total of 4 times, the Mexican sheriff in El Paso being the only one that just gave me a warning :(
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> the guy that ticketed me with the 98 in a 55 was freaking out so much over the speed that he failed to check registration and insurance
23:53 <GodTodd> lol
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> he was funnier than shit.  He was all adrenalized 'cause he thought I was going to try to run.
23:54 <GodTodd> of which you had non, i presume
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> It was a mazda 626!  I'm not stupid!
23:54 <GodTodd> none*
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I had none of that at the time.  :)
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> my license was good, though.
23:54 <GodTodd> first time i got stopped in AZ i had guns pointed at me
23:54 <GodTodd> that was fun
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I got stopped for 65 in a 35 in Seattle, and the cop let me go.  I was in my truck with my two kids in there.
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> guns?  what was that for?
23:55 <GodTodd> well...no one told me that if you open the door they hide and aim at you
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/node/50  <--- this is my weirdest cop encounter
23:56 <GodTodd> strat cop?
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah, you're supposed to stay there and let them approach you, with your hands in view
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the strat cop story :)
23:56 <GodTodd> yep...i was lucky that i didn't have any metal flash from a lighter or anything
23:56 <GodTodd> yeah...read that one :)
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's the weirdest one where I didn't get arrested.  The one where I got arrested is weirder
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> but I haven't written that one up
23:57 <GodTodd> i've never been cuffed but i was arrested for lifting a few packs of cigarrettes once
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> people get offended when you tell them you slept naked in a car with a 15-year old girl, got arrested, and didn't get charged for all the "sleeping with a minor" charges
23:57 <GodTodd> cigarettes
23:57 <GodTodd> *
23:58 <GodTodd> were you married at the time?
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, it was about a month or so before we got married
23:58 <GodTodd> ahhh...then i'm offended
23:58 <GodTodd> heh
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> I think the part people find offensive is the "didn't get charged" part
23:59 <GodTodd> probably
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> you know, "dad went down the the police station and tried to get him set free, what the hellw as he thinking?!?"
23:59 <GodTodd> but then, i'm one that thinks there are worse things that are done than that
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> speaking of which, my year just lost some of its fun.  Now I'm going to be saying "I've been married for 10 years, my wife's 26 and I'm 31"

Log from 2006-06-12:
--- Day changed Mon Jun 12 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> it was more fun when she was 25 :)
00:00 <GodTodd> heh
00:00 <GodTodd> i can't say that...my wife's 32 :(
00:01 <GodTodd> and we've only been married 2.5 years
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, there really are men that use their age and experience to seduce young women against their will, and sometimes I wish I was one of them...
00:01 <GodTodd> though i'm about to have an 8 year old kid....
00:02 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:02 <GodTodd> *long gestation period* :D
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> well, the fact that the math works out for our kids doesn't help us to avoid evil judgement
00:03 <GodTodd> judgement IS evil
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> people seem to be more willing to believe my wife's 20 or younger and my daughter's 10, and the math don't work out on that
00:03 <GodTodd> nope
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, this canadian girl I worked with, ummm, yeah.  She thought all Texans were hicks.
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> She asked me one time how long I'd been married, and I told her, and she asked for ages, and I told her
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> While she was doing the math in her head, I said "Yeah, she was my sister before we were married, our momma said it ws alright"
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> poor girl
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:05 <GodTodd> heh
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> she believed me, too, damn canuck
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> told her she was only my half-sister technically, but my dad had married her cousin or something like that
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> just some crazy shit I made up, you know how that stuff goes, haha
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> canadians = gullible
00:06 <GodTodd> i take it you weren't working at a job as a rocket scientist with her ;)
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> (where's vanhayes when I'm trashing canadians?"
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, no, she was selling software and I was her tech support ass
00:07 <spidey> and you say i'm in the incest state
00:07 <spidey> psssh
00:07 <GodTodd> thought that was west virginia...
00:07 <spidey> no it's arkansas
00:07 <spidey> lol
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> tennessee, west virginia, what's the difference?
00:07 <spidey> :/
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> if the appalachians touch it and it was a slave state, you're inbred
00:08 <GodTodd> lol
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> if Mississippi is 3 syllables to you, you're an inbred
00:08 <Your_mom_arma> thats classic
00:09 <spidey> it's 4 :/
00:09 <spidey> and what about texas? >:P
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> ?  if texas was full of inbreds, do you really think Bush would be pushing immigration reform like he is?
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> see, he's just afraid of what's going to happen when mexicans outnumber white people here
00:10 <spidey> texas was once part of mexico though
00:10 <GodTodd> was gonna say....we have too much mexican influx to be inbred
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> texas has some beautiful mexican women in it :)
00:11 <GodTodd> yepyep
00:11  * spidey really don't see why anyone would want to live in a state that's 3/4 desert
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> mexican women in New Mexico just don't compare, do they?
00:11 <GodTodd> hell no
00:11  * Lucifer_arma doesn't see how that 3/4 desert figure applies to texas
00:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: he's not pushing immigration per se
00:11 <Luke-Jr> he's pushing a North American Union government
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, here comes Luke-Jr to redefine every word in the english language until I tell him he's right
00:12 <spidey> lol
00:12 <Luke-Jr> making the U.S., Mexico, and Canada a single country
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> look, as long as we get to move the capitol of Texas to Mexico City, I'll do whatever he wants
00:12 <[NP]Tangent> mexico ftw!
00:12 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:13 <[NP]Tangent> I vote move the capitol of texas
00:13 <[NP]Tangent> that way the us doesn't have to deal with it anymore
00:13 <[NP]Tangent> :P
00:13 <spidey> hahahaha
00:13 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:13 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:13 <Luke-Jr> I think you missed the point
00:13 <Luke-Jr> there wouldn't be a "U.S." anymore
00:13 <Lucifer_arma> I vote secession, conquerin Mexico, and then humbling the US
00:13 <[NP]Tangent> I vote that colorado takes over the world
00:13 <Lucifer_arma> man, if Texas seceded, the rest of hte us would plunge into a depression
00:13 <Luke-Jr> you know, the Confederates were in the right
00:13 <[NP]Tangent> once we get rid of the idiot politicians here
00:14 <Luke-Jr> if states could secede at will, the federal gov't wouldn't be so corrupt, likely
00:14 <GodTodd> sam houston once said, Texas could survive without the US, but the US wouldn't make it without Texas. or something like that
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, see, the civil war is just like the napster court case
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> if they hadn't picked the fight they did pick over the issues at stake, they would have been in the right
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> but since they picked the fight they picked, they were in the wrong
00:15 <Luke-Jr> no, you're missing the part where the winner rewrites the history of the conflict
00:15 <Luke-Jr> to make it look like the winner was right
00:15 <Luke-Jr> slavery wasn't that big an issue especially right before the end
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> deciding that states should be self-deterministic on the basis of slavery in a so-called free nation is just the wrong fight to have over state's rights
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> the issue was state's rights, but slavery was the catalyst
00:16 <Luke-Jr> slavery was on its way out, without bloodshed
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> if they had seceded over the trade tariff, then they would have been in the right, undoubtedly
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> just like if napster hadn't made money off the copyright infringement...
00:16 <Luke-Jr> slavery was only brought out near the end by the Federal gov't to justify themselves
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> sure it didn't have to do with the mainline republican platform being to ban slavery, and the election of a republican president?
00:17 <Luke-Jr> it wasn't what the war was started or fought over
00:17 <Your_mom_arma> why should we wait for the president to screw up to impeach him i say we follow the presidents example and make a pre emptive strike
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> no, he might start talking sense and invade mexico, shut up
00:17 <Luke-Jr> he'll just make a joint government with Mexico
00:18 <GodTodd> hell....we should have taken mexico a long ass time ago
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> he wouldn't know how to make a joint if you gave him a how-to guide
00:18 <Luke-Jr> heh
00:18 <Luke-Jr> well, both sides will 'gain'
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> man's a coke fiend.  give him a mirror and a razor and we'll be in mexico tomorrow
00:18 <GodTodd> nah...for a 'joint' government we need clinton again
00:18 <Luke-Jr> Mexico's gain will be their economy being merged with ours
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> our gain will be the beautiful mexican women :)
00:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: tell that to your wife
00:19 <spidey> hahahaha
00:19 <GodTodd> with all their oil that economic merger would be our gain as well
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> my wife knows damn well I have a sweet spot for mexican women :)
00:19  * Luke-Jr hopes she slaps you when you lust after them
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> no, she usually takes advantage of me being horny to get what she wants from me
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> which is another situation where we both gain )
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> :)
00:20  * [NP]Tangent turns this conversation around
00:20 <[NP]Tangent> poopstick!
00:20 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:20 <spidey> heh
00:20 <Your_mom_arma> :/
00:20 <Luke-Jr> anyway
00:20 <GodTodd> jealousy is a sign of insecurity
00:20 <Luke-Jr> X-Files movie was pretty good
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> down with...what's his name?  Valenti?  vicente?  That's it.  Down with Vicente!
00:21 <GodTodd> fucking ants
00:21 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: eww, don't do that
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder how Luke-Jr can actually conceive of a penis small enough to fuck ants...
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's something beyond my experience...
00:21 <Luke-Jr> are you sure I'm not conceiving of the concept of large ants? ;)
00:22 <Luke-Jr> besides, GodTodd is the one trying it
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose if you covered your penis with honey and sat on an ant pile, you might be....ummm......OUCH
00:22 <GodTodd> sure...i'm having intercourse with ants....k
00:22 <GodTodd> that would hurt a bit, luci
00:22 <Luke-Jr> anyway
00:22 <Luke-Jr> just for the record
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> dont' use vaseline, use ky jelly.  The vaseline clogs their poor pores
00:23 <Luke-Jr> this convo is why I don't read my backlog :)
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> I read my backlog...
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> skim it anyway
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> and only what's i the buffer at present, it's somehwat limited actually
00:24 <Luke-Jr> my buffer is very limited
00:24 <Luke-Jr> I do keep logs, however
00:24 <Luke-Jr> I have 5 PgUps here
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, armabot keeps good logs, but I don't go through those
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> I have 1000KB in my irc client
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> I usually only read armabot's logs after I've ignored Luke-Jr and it looks like he's having a semi-important conversation
00:26 <GodTodd> so....once a month? ;)
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> give or take :)
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> the limiting factor is the frequency at which it looks like he's having a semi-important conversation
00:26 <Luke-Jr> scrollback lines; 250 here
00:29 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5066538.stm  <--- time to put Star Trek IV on heavy rotation
00:32 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar_ is now known as [Xpert]DarkStar
00:33 <Your_mom_arma> save the whales collect the whole set
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> "Conservative groups, including the influential Family Research Council (FRC), have voiced concerns that immunising young girls against the virus that most regularly causes cervical cancer, Human Papilloma- virus, may lead to sexual promiscuity."
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> wtf?
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> "Here, take this immunization to prevent cancer, but don't be a slut!"
01:11 <GodTodd> maybe they think they'll get used to getting poked? 
01:13 <Your_mom_arma> i thought hpv was an std
01:13 <spidey> that's hiv
01:13 <spidey> man
01:14 <spidey> when i take a shower i always end up smelling like fruit
01:14 <GodTodd> 30 or so of the 100 strains are stds
01:14 <GodTodd> not all of them
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> not really important, as far as I'm concerned
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> protecting someone against the dangers of sex isn't any different than having them wear a seatbelt, or a helmet on a motorcycle
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> nor is it any different from having health inspectors go through the restaurant to make sure they're not feeding people to people
01:33 <Your_mom_arma> im sure some human meat has made it into the system
01:34 <Your_mom_arma> cannibalism cures obesity
01:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50874471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:39 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-65-116.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
01:44 <spidey> this sucks :/
01:48 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: awake?
01:49 <z-man> A, nvm, found your tag
01:49 <z-man> Yes, it's correct
01:51 <spidey> z-man, lucifer said he was leaving the internet and never coming back,haven't seen him since
01:52  * z-man thinks that is not very funny
01:52 <z-man> :)
01:52 <spidey> :p
01:52  * spidey is just bored since nemo and mom left fortress :(
01:52 <guru3> tough i guess
01:52 <guru3> i'm stuck at work
01:52 <spidey> best few matches on that server in a long ass time
01:53 <spidey> believe it or not,the server was actually moron free apart from me xD
01:53 <spidey> but i'm special so i don't count :p
01:53  * spidey pokes guru
01:54 <spidey> "warning!  burn4free freezes if you try to load 2.4 gigs of audio at one tim"
01:54 <guru3> lol
01:56  * spidey is burning fortress music cause i fucked something up now when i use this adapter thingy so i can play music on my stereo it sounds like shit
01:56 <spidey> :(
01:59 <spidey> remind me never to rip music from a scratched cd
01:59 <spidey> now i've got mp3 files with half of one song and alf of the other
02:00 <guru3> haha
02:02  * spidey likes that his stereo plays music burnt in data format
02:02 <spidey> it saves alot of cds seeing as i can fit 700mb of music instead of only 80 minutes
02:09 <spidey> woot 68 songs burnt and playing now i'ma go pwn fortress
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeh, I'm still beating around z-man
02:11 <spidey> lies
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeh, I'm still beating around, z-man  <--- better?
02:15 <spidey> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
02:15 <spidey> fucking keyboard
02:17 <z-man> I don't know :) I updated my trunk test release to the revision you gave and testing with that.
02:17 <z-man> I haven't updated the build scripts to Joda's rearrangements, so I don't know what will happen.
02:21 <z-man> Ah, of course, armagetronad/win32 isn't included in the tarball. And it's gone in the old location. So the zip source doesn't contain it either.
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, if you'd rather move it to a branch maybe that's what I should have done in the first place
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> so in the future, should I be copying the whole trunk directory, or just get specific subdirectories from the trunk?
02:33 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:47 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: how do you talk someone out of making a bad website design decision?
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> depends on how much they're paying me :)
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's the bad website design decision?
02:48 <guru3> putting the additional help information before they need the help
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> additional help = contact information?
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> email, tech support, phone number, sales support, whatever?
02:49 <guru3> no like if you have a bunch of options on a page
02:49 <guru3> and what they are may not be clear
02:50 <guru3> info on what those options ar
02:50 <guru3> e
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhh
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ok, here's the guideline for all webpage design.  :)  You probably know it already...
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> most readers only scan headings and stop to read when something looks interesting.  This is doubly true for help pages.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> So naturally you want the headings to reflect the content, and the reader will stop when he sees the one that looks like it'll be most helpful.
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> make sense?  (and you alredy knew it, I hope?)
02:51 <guru3> the page isn't big enough for headings
02:51 <guru3> i mean
02:51 <guru3> how the hell do you have headings on a damn calender
02:51 <guru3> other than
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, calendar
02:51 <guru3> "Monday"
02:51 <guru3> "Tuesday"
02:51 <guru3> with links right on 'em
02:52 <guru3> is it just me or is putting before that "Click on the name of the day for more info."
02:52 <guru3> pretty stupid
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> <h1>Monday</h1><h2>This happens on Monday</h2><p>Go here for additional help</p>
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> oh no, never ever put text that tells people where to click
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> give users some credit for intelligence, man :)
02:52 <guru3> i would like to
02:52 <guru3> but my employer doesn't
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> make all links *look* like links, and you never have to say anything so stupid as "click on the day to see more info"
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> it's insulting, it really is.
02:53 <guru3> go figure
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> who's the target audience?  Is it just random web users, or is it people who already have a relationship with your employer?
02:53 <guru3> target audience is study participants
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> so they already have a relationship with you guys?
02:54 <guru3> i'm not really sure
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> as in, they've already talked to you, given names and stuff, and you know who they are?
02:54 <guru3> theoretically
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> the argument I'd make would be based on building a user interface the users are already familiar with so they don't ahve to waste time trying to figure out what I want them to do
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> web pages are user interface!  amazing how few people understand that.
02:55 <guru3> the catch is
02:55 <guru3> i suck at UIs
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> So the same reason you always put the File menu as the first on the left, you want links to look like links so people don't have to figure out where to click
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, you're good enough to know you shouldn't have to put instructions telling people to click on links :)
02:56 <guru3> but i can't convince my mom :/
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, good UI design = build a user interface the user already knows how to use using industry standard techniques
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> bad UI design = build some special user interface people have to learn how to use
02:56 <guru3> i don't think they're a industry standard interface for online calendars
02:57 <guru3> they're = there is
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> To decide when to do the latter, the basic question you have to ask is "Is the purpose of this page intrinsically linked to the user interface?"
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> or
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> "Is the user interface just something they have to use, but the purpose of the page is something else?"
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> like, if you were building a webpage to test a new javascript api for using webpages, then you want users to have to learn it
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> industry standard techniques is a nice little catchphrase you throw in that basically says "I know what I'm talking about"
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> Some googling will likely turn up resources that will support your case if you need it, but common sense should work fine on its own.  :)
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> I use the car analogy a lot for UI arguments.
02:58 <guru3> ok
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> When I buy a car from your company, do I need a sign on the dashboard that says "Insert key to start car"?
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> no, because I rleady know what an ignition switch and an ignition key is!
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't be in your car in the first place if I didn't know that, right?
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> same thing here.  If they didn't already know what links are, they wouldn't be on that page.
02:59 <guru3> that is clever
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> theoretically, maybe you're studying people that have never used a computer before, I don't know.
03:00 <guru3> but my main point is
03:00 <guru3> help before you need it
03:00 <guru3> is a bad idea
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> it's condescending at best
03:00 <guru3> but as a footnote
03:00 <guru3> it's ok right?
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> now, if the company's general attitude is condescending, then it's ok
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like footnotes mostly because people don't read them
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> however :)
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> if that's the best compromise you can reach, then that's fine :)
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> and if there's a general help page for all site help, then that's a good place for it (the user manual in the car analogy)
03:02 <guru3> hmm
03:02 <guru3> ok
03:02 <guru3> thanks
03:02  * Lucifer_arma notes that every car user manual he's read explained the different positions for hte igition key
03:02 <Lucifer_arma> anytime :)
03:02  * Lucifer_arma hopes it helps
03:04 <guru3> yese thankyou
03:04  * guru3 is now trying to figure out how to do folders in gmail
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04:38 <Luke-Jr> guru3: I think Google tries to discourage that ;)
04:39 <guru3> i can't just fill up the inbox :(
04:40 -!- dlh``` [n=dlh```@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
04:41 <Luke-Jr> I don't like webmail
04:41 <Luke-Jr> so gmail's not an option for me ;)
04:43 <Luke-Jr> I would suggest just setting up your own mail server and such =p
05:12 <guru3> bah
05:12 <guru3> i'm out of anime now :(
05:45 <Luke-Jr> download TC
05:45 <Luke-Jr> or SEL
05:45 <guru3> TC?
05:45 <guru3> SEL?
05:45 <Luke-Jr> or Ranma
05:45 <Luke-Jr> Tsubasa Chronicle
05:45 <guru3> got TC
05:45 <Luke-Jr> Serial Experiments Lain
05:45 <guru3> no new eps in 2 weeks
05:45 <Luke-Jr> no new eps in 2 weeks?
05:46 <guru3> not from le/db
05:46 <Luke-Jr> ?
05:46 <guru3> live-evil/dattebayo
05:46 <guru3> ppl that have been translating them...
05:46 <Luke-Jr> I thought it was just starting again soon
05:46 <guru3> season 2 already started
05:46 <Luke-Jr> has been no new eps for months for me
05:46 <Luke-Jr> I'm on like ep 19
05:46 <Luke-Jr> or something
05:47 <guru3> it's @ 31 now
05:47 <Luke-Jr> taking my time and stuff
05:47 <Luke-Jr> seen SEL or Ranma?
05:47 <guru3> no
05:47 <Luke-Jr> Ranma will last a good 4 years or so
05:47 <guru3> only if it's possible to get the episodews
05:47 <Luke-Jr> was months ago
05:47 <Luke-Jr> I hope it still is
05:48 <Luke-Jr> I don't think I got em all
05:48 <Luke-Jr> at least not in the DVD quality
05:48 <guru3> heh
05:48 <Luke-Jr> tho the DVD quality has dubbie titles on it
05:49 <Luke-Jr> BSSM is also fairly long, if you haven't seen it
05:49 <Luke-Jr> CCS is 90 eps
05:49 <guru3> ranma looks... interesting
05:49 <Luke-Jr> hehe
05:49 <Luke-Jr> he turns female when in cold water and male when hot
05:49 <guru3> doubt i'll be able to gather the eps :/
05:50 <guru3> cause you know
05:50 <guru3> airing in 1989...
05:50 <Luke-Jr> heh
05:50 <guru3> what's bssm and ccs?
05:51 <Luke-Jr> Bishoujosenshi Sailormoon
05:51 <Luke-Jr> Card Captor Sakura
05:51 <guru3> ok
05:51 <guru3> that last one sounds familiar...
05:52 <Luke-Jr> CCS was probably the source of most TC chars
05:52 <guru3> and it's also licensed in the us :/
05:55 <Luke-Jr> who cares
05:55 <guru3> just makes it hard to find
05:57 <Luke-Jr> http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?h=5DE5CAD573574EC2B0838EDB8A32408B&query=ranma&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
05:57 <Luke-Jr> or you could watch X-Files
05:57 <guru3> ok
05:57 <Luke-Jr> it's got 9 seasons + 1
05:57 <guru3> so there are torrents for ranma
05:58 <Luke-Jr> btw, isn't your birthday over yet
05:58 <guru3> yeah
05:58  * Luke-Jr glances at the topic
05:58 <guru3> well actually
05:58 <guru3> as i haven't gotten any real gifts yet
05:58 <guru3> no
05:58 <Luke-Jr> lol
05:59 <Luke-Jr> I spent my birthday at the ER
05:59 <guru3> ><
05:59 <guru3> how many times have we told you not to stick stuff up your nose :P
05:59 <Luke-Jr> no no
05:59 <Luke-Jr> burn #2
06:00 <Luke-Jr> stage 2 burn?
06:00 <Luke-Jr> something like that
06:00 <guru3> ouch
06:00 <Luke-Jr> on a level from 1 to 3, 3 being permenant damage, it's 2 =p
06:00 <guru3> stop sticking fireworks up your nose
06:00 <Luke-Jr> sunburn
06:00 <guru3> stop sticking the sun up your nose then
06:00 <Luke-Jr> my daughter
06:01 <guru3> well tell your daughter to stop sticking the sun up your nose then
06:01 <Luke-Jr> no, she had the burn not me
06:01 <guru3> well your daugther to stop sticking the sun up _her_ nose then ;)
06:02 <Luke-Jr> ok, just don't tell her not to stick it in her mouth
06:03 <guru3> ><
06:05 <Luke-Jr> I want to play AR games
06:05 <Luke-Jr> err, just not AR Arma
06:05 <Luke-Jr> that might be annoying
06:25 <guru3> started dl of ranma & ccs
06:26 <guru3> i'm gonna need a new hd if this keeps up :/
07:13 <wrtlprnft> #notes z-man*
07:13 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
07:46 <guru3> it's very difficult to make your wheeled-spinny chair go where you want it to when you kick off from the wall :/
07:53 <wrtlprnft> where'd you go?
07:53 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-015-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
07:53 <wrtlprnft> down the stairs? :P
07:53 <guru3> no
07:53 <guru3> i'm trying to aim for another chair
07:53 <guru3> and use it as a break
07:55 <wrtlprnft> hmm, have fun, i have to go
07:55 <guru3> hf
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07:57 <newnick> hi
07:57 <guru3> lo'
07:58 <newnick> its not tht funny
07:58 <guru3> lo as in
07:58 <guru3> short for hello
07:58 <newnick> oh lol
07:58 <newnick> i thought u ment lol
07:58 <guru3> no
07:58 <guru3> if i meant lol
07:58 <newnick> but a typo
07:58 <guru3> i woulda typed lol
07:58 <newnick> ok
07:58 <guru3> kinda hard to mistype lol
07:58 <guru3> keys are right next to each other
07:59 <newnick> but i sumtimes catch a key when i hit enter
07:59 -!- newnick [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
07:59 <guru3> wonder if he caught alt and f4 when pressing enter?
08:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
08:20 <wrtlprnft> guru3: sometimes instead of lol i say kik ;)
08:22 <guru3> heh
08:22 <guru3> that's an easy typo
08:24 <wrtlprnft> but lo' requires some mistyping skills even I don't have
08:24 <guru3> same here
08:24 <wrtlprnft> especially on a german keyboard since you have to press shift+# to get '
08:25 <guru3> lol
08:26 <wrtlprnft> you sure you mean lol by this and not lo' or kik? ;)
08:26 <guru3> Oo
08:27 <wrtlprnft> btw i do see a way to mistype lol as lo' on an english keyboard if i look at it. You can forget the 2nd l (yust don't hit it hard enough) and then miss your return key as well, hitting both ' and return
08:27 <wrtlprnft> lo'
08:27 <guru3> yeah
08:27 <guru3> but i don't
08:28 <guru3> tbh the ' should really come first
08:28 <guru3> 'lo
08:28 <guru3> but oh well
08:28  * wrtlprnft hasn't seen many typos from guru3, true
08:28 <wrtlprnft> s/yust/just O_o
08:28 <wrtlprnft> one of my brain lag- typos
08:29 <guru3> ><
08:29 <guru3> i can't think of any real work to do
08:29 <guru3> so i'm just sitting here reading wdb
08:29 <guru3> *qdb
08:29 <wrtlprnft> make a formula parser for arma? ;)
08:29 <guru3> no
08:30 <guru3> no idea how to do that in c++
08:30  * wrtlprnft has no idea how how he would start that in any language
08:30 <wrtlprnft> except PHP and friends, just be evil and use eval :D
08:30 <guru3> hmm well
08:30 <guru3> first thing
08:30 <guru3> would be to setup a syntax system
08:31 <guru3> so parsing for * / + - ()
08:31 <wrtlprnft> and */ before -+
08:31 <guru3> then you isolate the variables and constants
08:32 <wrtlprnft> if it wasn't for that I'd know how to do it, somehow
08:32 <guru3> and apply each operator in a loop
08:32 <guru3> but i don't know enough string manipulation in c++ to do it
08:32 <wrtlprnft> i do, that's no real problem
08:33 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll just have to find some undisturbed time to do it :(
08:33 <wrtlprnft> probably on my flight home
08:33 <guru3> ><
08:43 <guru3> brb
08:45 <guru3> back
08:45 <guru3> and god am i bored
09:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-198-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
09:00 <madmax|pt> hello
09:01 <guru3> lo
09:01 <guru3> (NOT a typo of lol)
09:01 <guru3> (as the last guy that said hello expected)
09:01 <madmax|pt> lol
09:01 <guru3> (it's an abreiviated form of helLO)
09:01 <madmax|pt> actually it isnt
09:01 <madmax|pt> Definitions of lo on the Web:
09:01 <madmax|pt> Lo is a town in Lo-Reninge, a part of Belgium. 
09:01 <madmax|pt> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo
09:02 <guru3> heh
09:02 <guru3> it's little known
09:02 <guru3> i think i'm the only one that uses it
09:02 <madmax|pt> i like this one too:
09:02 <madmax|pt> A passive countermeasure (also known in some cultures as STEALTH). In achieving LO, warships attempt to make their skins as non- reflective as possible across the EM spectrum, and to prevent any excess heat from being radiated from the ship.
09:02 <madmax|pt> www.saveandromeda.com/allsystems/engineering/grdglosko.htm
09:03 <guru3> who comes up with this crap ><
09:03 <madmax|pt> "define:"
09:03 <guru3> (isn't it like a moon of saturn too or something?)
09:03 <madmax|pt> its a similar name i guess
09:04 <madmax|pt> ah, its "io"
09:04 <guru3> knew it sounded familiar
09:04 <madmax|pt> and its jupiter's moon btw
09:05 <guru3> well i'm no astrologist :)
09:05 <madmax|pt> astronomer :P
09:05 <guru3> see?
09:05 <madmax|pt> hehe
09:07 <guru3> going home
09:07 <guru3> bbl
09:10 <madmax|pt> cya
09:28 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:00  * spidey yawns
10:01 <madmax|pt> (...)
10:12 <guru3> back
10:21 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
10:32 -!- cusco [n=amor@ns.server08.hosting-factory.net] has joined #armagetron
10:33 <cusco> what about walls from the future????
10:33 <cusco> http://www.linuxkungfu.org/images/fun/geek/owned.jpg
10:40 <madmax|pt> haha
10:40 <madmax|pt> :D
10:40 <madmax|pt> nice
10:42 <Vanhayes> spidey u playing fortress?
10:42 <cusco> I just upgraded to xorg7 and lost dri
10:43 <cusco> :(
10:43 <spidey> maybe
10:43 <cusco> if I play with the lowest resolution.. its still slow :(
10:43 <Vanhayes> geyser?
10:43 <spidey> back?
10:43 <Vanhayes> lol
10:43 <spidey> :p
10:43 <cusco> resolution, and lowest detail settings
10:44 <madmax|pt> can i play fortress too dad?
10:45 <Vanhayes> I've noticed alot less ws and Good jobs, for moves that would have gotten at least a wd if my name was Vanhayes
10:45 <madmax|pt> lol
10:45 <MaZuffeR> yep Vanhayes, i notice that too when i'm using a fake name
10:46 <madmax|pt> people wonder: "who's that? hmm... a noob better than me?"
10:46 <Vanhayes> kinda sucks for noobs
10:46 <Vanhayes> lol
10:46 <spidey> really?
10:46 <spidey> i seem to get them stll
10:46 <Vanhayes> as many tho?
10:47 <spidey> dunno
10:47 <spidey> then again people always know who i am somehow :/
10:47 <spidey> mostly cause of lucifer >.>
10:47 <Vanhayes> and u dont change your colour
10:47 <spidey> heh
10:48 <madmax|pt> Using fake names is a underground culture... ooooh
10:48 <spidey> Dr.Pwn man!
10:48 <spidey> i've used fake names since day 3
10:48 <spidey> xD
10:48 <spidey> might have been day 4,but who's keeping track
10:55 <Vanhayes> max are u playing fortress too?
11:01 <madmax|pt> no
11:02 <Vanhayes> ok just wondering
11:02 <madmax|pt> but make sure you say those "wd's"
11:02 <madmax|pt> :D
11:02 <Vanhayes> lol
11:09 <Vanhayes> #eliza How are you today?
11:09 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
11:12 <Vanhayes> #eliza I think you are in a bad mood.
11:12 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say you think i are in a bad mood?
11:12 <spidey> lmao
11:13 <Vanhayes> #eliza because u still have that attitude
11:13 <armabot> Vanhayes: Does it bother you that i ask you that?
11:13 <Vanhayes> #eliza Ask me what?
11:13 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
11:14 <Vanhayes> #eliza I think you should know what you asked me.
11:14 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say that?
11:17 <Vanhayes> #eliza Because you have to know what you ask somone
11:17 <armabot> Vanhayes: Is it because i have to know what i ask somone that you came to me?
11:21 <Vanhayes> #eliza you make no sense
11:21 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say i make no sense?
11:21 <Vanhayes> #eliza bitch
11:21 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
11:21 <Vanhayes> #eliza you are a bitch
11:21 <armabot> Vanhayes: Please, watch your tongue!
11:21 <Vanhayes> lol
11:24 <madmax|pt> Van, you know that personal attacks are bad right?
11:24 <Vanhayes> ?
11:24 <madmax|pt> lol
11:24 <madmax|pt> "you are a bitch"!?
11:24 <Vanhayes> that thing always pisses me off
11:24 <madmax|pt> hum?
11:24 <Vanhayes> #eliza
11:24 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
11:25 <Vanhayes> that thing
12:03 -!- Joni [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
12:04 <Joni> hi guys
12:04 <Joni> could i ask you all a question
12:04 <Joni> how do i get the record to work?
12:04 <Joni> so i can record a match
12:08 <Vanhayes> are you using windows?
12:08 <Joni> yes
12:08 <Vanhayes> go into your start menu
12:09 <Vanhayes> under armagetron advanced there is armagetron advenced record
12:09 <Joni> ok
12:09 <Joni> got it
12:09 <Joni> thnx
12:09 <Vanhayes> np
12:23 <Vanhayes> #weather Tampa
12:24 <armabot> Vanhayes: The current temperature in Tampa, FL is 73�F. Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 90%. Wind: E at 6 mph (10 km/h).
12:25 <Joni> #weather Yorkshire
12:25 <armabot> Joni: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Yorkshire".
12:25 <Joni> shockin
12:26 <Joni> #weather England
12:26 <madmax|pt> #weather Lisbon
12:26 <armabot> Joni: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "England".
12:26 <armabot> madmax|pt: Temperature: 77°F / 25°C | Humidity: 61% | Pressure: 29.92in / 1013hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: NW | Wind Speed: 18mph / 30km/h | Updated: 6:00 PM WEST; Scattered Clouds. High:73 � F. / 23 � C.; Clear. Low:64 � F. / 18 � C.; Clear. High:77 � F. / 25 � C.; Clear. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.; Overcast. High:75 � F. / 24 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.;
12:26 <madmax|pt> nice
12:26 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
12:26 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 68?F / 20?C | Humidity: 68% | Pressure: 29.72in / 1006hPa | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h | Updated: 2:00 PM ADT; Today - A mix of sun and cloud. 60 percent chance of showers late this afternoon. Wind northwest 20 km/h becoming southwest 20 this afternoon. High 21. UV index 7 or high.; Tonight - Cloudy periods. 60 percent chance (1 more message)
12:26 <Vanhayes> #more
12:26 <armabot> Vanhayes: of showers this evening. Wind southwest 20 km/h becoming light this evening. Low 10.; Tuesday - Increasing cloudiness. Showers or thundershowers beginning in the afternoon. Amount 5 mm except 10 mm or more possible in thundershowers. High 22.;
12:26 <Joni> #weather Sheffield
12:26 <armabot> Joni: The current temperature in Sheffield, AL is 82�F. Conditions: Mostly Sunny. Humidity: 69%. Wind: NE at 8 mph (13 km/h).
12:27 <Joni> #weather Barnsley
12:27 <armabot> Joni: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Barnsley".
12:27 <Joni> omg
12:27 <Vanhayes> spelt it right?
12:28 <Joni> yes
12:28 <Joni> thats where i live
12:28 <Joni> #weather South Yorkshire
12:28 <armabot> Joni: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "South Yorkshire".
12:29 <Joni> it doesnt like me
12:29 <spidey> #weather Paris,TN
12:29 <armabot> spidey: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:29 <spidey> bastard
12:29 <joda_bot> #weather Paderborn,Germany
12:29 <spidey> #weather 38242
12:29 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:29 <armabot> spidey: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:29 <spidey> #cnn 38242
12:29 <armabot> spidey: The current temperature in Paris, TN is 72�F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Wind: NE at 9 mph (14 km/h).
12:29 <spidey> BEOTCH
12:31 <GodTodd> #weather Plano,TX
12:32 <armabot> GodTodd: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:32 <GodTodd> blah
12:32 <GodTodd> #weather dallas
12:32 <armabot> GodTodd: The current temperature in Dallas, TX is 89�F. Conditions: Sunny. Humidity: 40%. Wind: S at 10 mph (16 km/h).
12:33 <GodTodd> #list
12:33 <armabot> GodTodd: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
12:34 <MaZuffeR> #weather Turku
12:34 <armabot> MaZuffeR: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:35 <Vanhayes> #weather Hampton
12:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: The current temperature in Hampton, AR is 89�F. Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 47%. Wind: N at 6 mph (10 km/h).
12:35 <Vanhayes> no
12:35 <GodTodd> #weather plano
12:35 <Vanhayes> #weather Hampton, NB
12:35 <armabot> GodTodd: The current temperature in Plano, IL is 68�F. Conditions: Sunny. Humidity: 46%. Wind: N at 8 mph (13 km/h).
12:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Hampton, NB".
12:36 <spidey> #weather paris
12:36 <armabot> spidey: Temperature: 86°F / 30°C | Humidity: 37% | Pressure: 30.09in / 1019hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: East | Wind Speed: 14mph / 22km/h | Updated: 7:30 PM CEST; Clear. High:75 � F. / 24 � C.; Clear. Low:62 � F. / 17 � C.; Scattered Clouds. High:78 � F. / 26 � C.; Clear. Low:60 � F. / 16 � C.; Clear. High:86 � F. / 30 � C.; Clear. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.;
12:36 <MaZuffeR> #weather Helsinki
12:36 <armabot> MaZuffeR: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:36 <spidey> lol
12:36 <MaZuffeR> #weather Finland
12:36 <Vanhayes> it has been raining here fore 2 weeks now
12:36 <armabot> MaZuffeR: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Finland".
12:36 <GodTodd> #weather Fuck
12:36 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
12:36 <armabot> GodTodd: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Fuck".
12:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 68?F / 20?C | Humidity: 68% | Pressure: 29.72in / 1006hPa | Conditions: Partly Cloudy | Wind Direction: SW | Wind Speed: 7mph / 11km/h | Updated: 2:00 PM ADT; Today - A mix of sun and cloud. 60 percent chance of showers late this afternoon. Wind northwest 20 km/h becoming southwest 20 this afternoon. High 21. UV index 7 or high.; Tonight - Cloudy periods. 60 percent chance (1 more message)
12:37 <Vanhayes> #more
12:37 <armabot> Vanhayes: of showers this evening. Wind southwest 20 km/h becoming light this evening. Low 10.; Tuesday - Increasing cloudiness. Showers or thundershowers beginning in the afternoon. Amount 5 mm except 10 mm or more possible in thundershowers. High 22.;
12:37 <GodTodd> i want rain
12:37 <GodTodd> :(
12:37 <spidey> ew
12:37 <Vanhayes> u can have mine
12:37 <spidey> lol
12:38 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
12:39 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
12:42 <GodTodd> #help weather
12:42 <armabot> GodTodd: (weather <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city.
12:42 <GodTodd> #weather Plano, Texas
12:42 <armabot> GodTodd: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:42 <GodTodd> #weather 75023
12:42 <armabot> GodTodd: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:43 <GodTodd> no wonder we americans hate soccer....we suck heh
12:44 -!- Joni [n=514f54e4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
12:46 <madmax|pt> you do
12:46 <madmax|pt> :P
12:51 <joda_bot> mkzelda: are you there ?
12:53 <joda_bot> mkzelda: Can you tell me the version you used to record your recording on your website ?
12:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, madmax|pt, using fake names is the new trend :)
12:55  * Lucifer_arma was Gaymosexual the other night, if you hadn't figured that out
12:55 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:55 <joda_bot> mkzelda: guess the date and comment cleared it up ... is from an early 2005 cvs build
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #weather Austin
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Temperature: 52?F / 11?C | Humidity: 100% | Pressure: in / hPa | Conditions: | Wind Direction: SSW | Wind Speed: 4mph / 6km/h | Updated: 7:00 AM CDT; Today - A mix of sun and cloud. High 24. UV index 7 or high.; Tonight - A few clouds. Low 9.; Tuesday - Sunny. High 24.;
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> That can't be austin tx
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #weather Austin, TX
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> #cnn 78717
12:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The current temperature in Round Rock, TX is 90�F. Conditions: Sunny. Humidity: 33%. Wind: ENE at 4 mph (6 km/h).
12:58 <wrtlprnft> there's an austin, mb >P
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> mb?
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> manitoba?
12:58 <wrtlprnft> yep
12:58 <wrtlprnft> some little village with <100 people in it
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> #weather 78717
12:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: Could not find weather information.
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> #weather Round Rock
12:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The current temperature in Round Rock, TX is 90�F. Conditions: Sunny. Humidity: 33%. Wind: ENE at 4 mph (6 km/h).
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> why do you guys get so much information and I don't?  :(
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> man, why can't that tropical storm come just a little farther west?
13:00  * Lucifer_arma notes the rainy season in Texas is over
13:02 <wrtlprnft> omg i broke BF fortress :(
13:03 <wrtlprnft> and i can't fix it right now
13:05 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what did you do ?
13:05 <madmax|pt> [18:55] 	Lucifer_arma	heh, madmax|pt, using fake names is the new trend :)
13:05 <madmax|pt> [18:55] 	*	Lucifer_arma was Gaymosexual the other night, if you hadn't figured that out
13:05 <madmax|pt> well, i guess you were there
13:05 <madmax|pt> didnt know who was it though
13:05 <madmax|pt> :D
13:06 <madmax|pt> those "will they kick me tests".... 
13:09 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the name was a whim.  I was going to go in as George Bush :)
13:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: looks like my different CYCLE_DELAY settings stuff screwed everything up
13:09 <Lucifer_arma> gaymosexual is a slur a guy I used to work with used to use, and the gay guy that worked there (and the rest of us) liked it so much we adopted it in place of homosexual
13:10  * wrtlprnft should have thested the server more throuroughly
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> but somewhere around a year ago I went in as Homosexual and got the same response
13:10 <madmax|pt> lol
13:10 <wrtlprnft> i just checked if the hybrid server worked fine and if the dedicated one compiled...
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh, far as I know, there are people in the game who actually think I'm gay, haha
13:12 <spidey> man
13:12 <spidey> all the retards follow me
13:13 <spidey> WHY!?!?!?
13:13 <spidey> now they're in wild fortress :(
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> birds of a feather?
13:13 <spidey> hahahahahah
13:13 <spidey> i got kick spammed
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> ack, I'm finally starting to see why calculus is needed to launch spaceships
13:21 -!- skittlez [n=mIRC@] has joined #armagetron
13:21 -!- skittlez is now known as xzl_shaggy
13:22 <xzl_shaggy> hey I need help!!
13:23 <spidey> ?
13:23 <xzl_shaggy> asked for help on forums bout my server, they told me to come here when it'sonline to let one of you see if it's showing up on master list thing or whatever
13:24 <spidey> whats the name?
13:24 <xzl_shaggy> ~"XzL.Dogfighting Server
13:24 <spidey> when is that anyways?
13:24 <xzl_shaggy> the tourny?
13:24 <spidey> yea
13:25 <xzl_shaggy> the date will be posted on Friday, that's when the cut off for signingup is
13:25 <xzl_shaggy> after we figure out how many teams are playing
13:25 <spidey> don't see it,only see the xzl server
13:25 <spidey> you do TALK_TO_MASTER 1 ?
13:25 <xzl_shaggy> yes
13:26 <spidey> got a router or firewall?
13:26 <xzl_shaggy> firewall, got the port opened on my firewall
13:26 <spidey> not there :/
13:27 <xzl_shaggy> any idea how I can fix that?
13:27 <xzl_shaggy> cause ppl keep telling me to turn off my firewall, which I won't do that... and then ppl are telling me to open the port onmy firewall and that's what I did
13:27 <spidey> what firewall you got? and is i on windows?
13:27 <xzl_shaggy> I'm not using a router, my cable modem is hooked directly into the back of my PC
13:28 <xzl_shaggy> yesit's on windows, and it's just the windows firewall
13:28 <spidey> lol
13:28 <spidey> the windows firewall won't block it anyways
13:28 <spidey> i've got it on but the servers i run people can still connect to without opening the port
13:29 <xzl_shaggy> well I got the ports turned on, and I don't have any other firewall
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, wrtlprnft ?
13:29 <spidey> in the console do talk_to_master 1 again
13:30 <xzl_shaggy> ok
13:30 <xzl_shaggy> done
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> you have to restart the server when you change that setting because the talk to master is only done the one time when it starts
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> and you hve to change it in config files, obviously, because the console doesn't persist across sessions
13:31 <spidey> um
13:31 <spidey> i never did
13:31 <xzl_shaggy> in the config files the talk_to_master is set to 1
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, if you restart the server, you can just put "TALK_TO_MASTER" in the console and it'll tell you the current value of it
13:31 <spidey> i always did it in the console
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's weird, spidey, I never saw it work
13:31 <spidey> i've never add'd it in the config files
13:31 <spidey> :p
13:32 <xzl_shaggy> [0] TALK_TO_MASTER is currently set to 1.
13:32 <spidey> yuo got icmp disabled?
13:32 <xzl_shaggy> icmp?
13:32 <spidey> pings....
13:32 <xzl_shaggy> I dunno, how I find that out
13:32 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:32 <spidey> then you don't
13:32 <spidey> heh
13:33 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:33 <spidey> it's a setting in the windows firewall
13:33 <spidey> what's the ip?
13:33 <spidey> and what port is the server using
13:33 <xzl_shaggy>
13:33 <xzl_shaggy> 4534
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> type SERVER_NAME in the console and tell us what you get
13:34 <spidey> doesn't matter
13:34 <spidey> his server isn't online
13:35 <spidey> restart it shaggy
13:35 <xzl_shaggy> how you restart it?j ust close consol and reopen it?
13:35 <spidey> yea
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> yep
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> mine says it's unreachable :)
13:36 <xzl_shaggy> ok
13:36 <xzl_shaggy> restarted
13:36 <spidey> still not connecting
13:37 <xzl_shaggy> blah
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> armagetronad-master.log:[2006/06/12 13:36:36] [2] Updated server:
13:37 <spidey> umm
13:37 <xzl_shaggy> only other IP it could be
13:37 <xzl_shaggy>
13:37 <xzl_shaggy> is that one
13:37 <spidey> heh
13:37 <spidey> www.whatismyip.com
13:37 <spidey> also,does your modem have a built-in router?
13:37 <spidey> some do
13:38 <xzl_shaggy> I'm not sure, how can I check?
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> ServerBegin
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> connection
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> port    4534
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> method  0
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> key     0
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> transaction     107207
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> version 0 0
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> release pre_0.2.5
13:38 <spidey> pen a browser and try to goto
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> url
13:38 <spidey> open*
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> scorebias       0
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> name
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> tna     7
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> ServerEnd
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> no server name given, and look at the version
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> release line, that is
13:39 <xzl_shaggy> nope, won't let me go there
13:39 <spidey> it won't?
13:39 <spidey> you on cable?
13:39 <xzl_shaggy> yes
13:39 <spidey> ....
13:40 <spidey> that's the modem webserver
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> eh?  no it's not
13:40 <spidey> is to!
13:40 <Lucifer_arma>
13:40 <spidey> or wait
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> duh
13:40 <spidey> .100.1 ?
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> everybody knows that :)
13:40 <spidey> not mine
13:40 <spidey> mine's 100.1
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> besides, his internal IP is different
13:40 <spidey> :p
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> <--- different internal ip
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> better check the manual for your modem
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> I've seen dsl modems that had this problem, because they provide a nat router internally, so even though you might have like a linksys router plugged in, you still need to forward the port from the dsl modem to the router,
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> and then from the router to the server itself
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> and think about what it's going to do to player pings :)
13:41 <spidey> lol
13:42 <xzl_shaggy>
13:42 <xzl_shaggy> let me go there
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, if the dsl modem has a nat router in it, you can just plug in a switch to share, you don't need the nat router like most people
13:42 <spidey> luci....
13:42 <spidey> he's on cablle
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> it let me go to that one!!!
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't make a lot of difference in what they might put in the damn things, does it?
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> ooo im so lost
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> ;/
13:43 <spidey> see luci it's 100.1 :p
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> fine
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> the last digit's still .1 :)
13:43 <spidey> hahaha
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> ok, how bout you two help me?
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> :p
13:43 <spidey> now shaggy
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> we're too busy arguing
13:43 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:44 <xzl_shaggy> i see that
13:44 <spidey> do you see alot of different links 
13:44 <spidey> one saying virtual servers?
13:44 <xzl_shaggy> Status | Signal | Addresses | Configuration | Logs | Help
13:44 <spidey> or is it just a page discribing your modem
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> it might also say "applications".  Mine does, anyway
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> Configuration?
13:44 <spidey> click configuration
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> Signal will be for wireless, I'll bet
13:44 <spidey> no :p
13:45 <spidey> it tells the -/+ db gain of the line
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> Frequency Plan: North American Standard/HRC/IRC
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> Upstream Channel ID: 4
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> Frequency (Hz): 621000000
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> DHCP Server Enabled
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> The SURFboard cable modem can be used as a gateway to the Internet by a maximum of 32 users on a Local Area Network (LAN). When the Cable Modem is disconnected from the Internet, users on the LAN can be dynamically assigned IP Addresses by the Cable Modem DHCP Server. These addresses are assigned from an address pool which begins with and ends with Statically assigned IP addresses for other devices on the LAN should be ch
13:45 <spidey> yup
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> then there's a button that says
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> reset all default
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> then one
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> that says
13:45 <xzl_shaggy> restart cable modem
13:46 <spidey> that's it?
13:46 <xzl_shaggy> yup lol
13:46 <spidey> was there any other links on the main page?
13:46 <xzl_shaggy> just those I gave you
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> what's the brand and model of the thing?
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> should be on the front of it....  :)
13:47 <spidey> it's a surfboard dude
13:47 <spidey> read what he posted :p
13:47 <madmax|pt> @Sumo there was a bug, when showing the poll voters stats it showed all values correct except for the "total voters" that said "-1"...
13:47 <xzl_shaggy> lol
13:47 <xzl_shaggy> yeah
13:47 <xzl_shaggy> motorola surfboard
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> hhahaha
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/index.cfm?a=h_view&model_id=181  <--- got a model number?
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> says it supports port forwarding for that particular model
13:48 <spidey> but wait
13:49 <spidey> luci,shouldn't it still show on the list?
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> not if the master server can't ping it, and the master server can't ping it if the port's closed
13:49 <spidey> oh
13:49 <xzl_shaggy> ;/
13:50 <spidey> shaggy
13:50 <xzl_shaggy> ?
13:50 <spidey> look on the side of the modem
13:50 <xzl_shaggy> ok
13:50 <spidey> a silver label or something
13:50 <spidey> should tell the model number
13:51 <xzl_shaggy> SB5100
13:51 <spidey> it might also be on the bottum
13:51 <xzl_shaggy> ^^
13:51 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://forum.portforward.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Knowledge;action=display;num=1139203841   <--- doesn't tell us we don't already know, but shaggy should read this page anyway
13:52 <spidey> does his modem have port forwarding?
13:52  * spidey can't click links to check
13:52 <GodTodd> didja do a netstat -a to check for the open port yet?
13:52 <spidey> no.....
13:52 <xzl_shaggy> wouldn't lemme open that last page
13:52 <spidey> but
13:53 <spidey> netstat wouldn't help
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> There is no firewall or router in the Motorola sb5100. It's just a modem and that's it. There is no ports to open up, or to forward.  <--- from "http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/181659.html"
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> I don't believe that guy
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> possible it only let me into that page 'cause I came from google
13:55 <xzl_shaggy> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/index.cfm?a=h_view&model_id=179
13:55 <xzl_shaggy> ^^my model
13:55 <xzl_shaggy> brb
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=SB5100+port+forwarding&btnG=Search  <-- my search results if you wanted them
13:58 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl is now known as SuPeRTaRD
13:59 <xzl_shaggy> so anyone know how to fix my problems or should Ijust gicve up?lol
13:59  * spidey is out of ideas
13:59 <spidey> what version is the server?
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't see anything in the user manual to say you can port forward,
14:00 <xzl_shaggy> 2.8.1
14:00 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50874471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> however the manual says you can use a switch or hub to hook up up to 63 computers to the network
14:00 <spidey> 63?
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> so you need to find out how to forward the port, period, from your cable modem, and I'm out of information, sorry
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> yep, 63
14:00 <spidey> who needs that many
14:01 <spidey> shaggy
14:01  * madmax|pt is away: Not Here.
14:01 <spidey> open tron and start a internet game
14:01 <spidey> you know at the top of the list where it says "host a game"
14:01 <xzl_shaggy> yes
14:01 <spidey> do that and tell me what name you used for it
14:03 <xzl_shaggy> ok
14:03 <spidey> hey luci
14:03 <xzl_shaggy> Dogfighting thinger
14:03 <xzl_shaggy> is the name
14:03 <spidey> you know what would be a good feature?
14:03 <spidey> uPnP support
14:03 <Lucifer_arma> uPnP?
14:03 <spidey> hehehe
14:03  * Lucifer_arma accepts patches
14:03 <Lucifer_arma> I don't have a uPnP router, afaik, so I can't test it
14:04  * spidey can't program :p
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> and, afaik, there isn't a uPnP api for linux, but I could be wrong
14:04 <spidey> my router supports upnp but i have it disabled
14:04 <xzl_shaggy> spidey, you get the name?
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> find me a uPnP api for Linux and I'll see what I can do, sometime
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> it would be very handy, I'm tired of answering this question :)
14:04 <spidey> yea
14:05 <spidey> it's something blocking the port
14:05 <spidey> i see your ip on the list but it's unreachable
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> shaggy: if we had uPnP support, and your modem supported it (I didn't see if it does or not), then this port forwarding thing would be automatic, afaik
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> master server knows bout it, I gave the entry from my master server's list :)
14:06 <xzl_shaggy> ah, i'll just give up on the server
14:06 <xzl_shaggy> thanks guys
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> so we have outgoing connectivity, what we don't have is incoming connectivity, which is why we're stuck with port forwarding
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, it looks like you got saddled with a crappy cable router :(
14:06 <spidey> heh
14:06 <xzl_shaggy> yah, can't expect much more from a local cable net company ;)
14:07 <spidey> you know
14:07 <spidey> you can't run anything that needs a incoming connect
14:07 <xzl_shaggy> brb
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> which includes openNap clients
14:07 <spidey> mhmm
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> not that I'd ever use such a program....
14:08 <spidey> heh
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> this robot vacuum is so cool.  It sucks so much, and it does it all by itself
14:08 <spidey> hahaha
14:10 <spidey> gay
14:10 <spidey> i think my soldat server's getting DoS'd
14:11 <spidey> i think me or another admin pissed someone off because it was all running fine then all of the servers hypergamin hosts started lagging and the site loads slow :/
14:22 <spidey> this sucks
14:22 <spidey> one of my subs blew :/
14:24 <spidey> and now i overloaded the stereo :/
14:24 <guru3> Oo
14:26  * spidey trips guru
14:27 <madmax|pt> lol
14:28  * spidey is down to a 8' sony
14:28  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:26:54)
14:28 <spidey> my normal speakers put out more bass
14:28 <spidey> :/
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> my speakers have more bass than I cook on my grill
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> of course, one of them's a converted speaker comprised of the cones from two guitar combo amps, and the other one is a complete combo amp
14:34 <spidey> lol
14:34 <spidey> i HAD
14:34 <spidey> a 12' and a 8' sub
14:34 <spidey> and 4 speakers
14:34 <spidey> i guess i can add a couple more speakers now :/
14:35 <spidey> hahaha
14:35 <spidey> someone just told me they drank flat water
14:35 <spidey> how does water go flat?
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> let it sit long enough and the minerals and crap that make it taste good sink to the bottom/float to the top?
14:36  * Lucifer_arma thinks he knows enough chemistry to know that doesn't actually happen
14:36 <spidey> heh
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> generally I consider water "flat" when it reaches room temperature, because "flat" means undrinkable
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> and water at room temperature is undrinkable unless you're going to die if you do't drink it
14:36 <spidey> to me water doesn't have a taste
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, since you put it that way, water tastes like sweetened tea to me
14:37 <spidey> unless i drink this nasty ass over ironed water
14:37 <spidey> then it tastes like sulfer smells
14:38 <GodTodd> blah....what goes with sweet potatoes?
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> turkey?
14:39 <GodTodd> not candied ones....regular ones :P
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> nothing, that shit tastes like sewage
14:40 <GodTodd> i like them....just mashed up like regular potatoes
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> stop it, I'm hungry and trying to do math :)
14:41 <GodTodd> although spaghetti squash sounds good too....
14:41 <GodTodd> heh i'm trying to plan what to make for dinner :P
14:43 <GodTodd> maybe jambalaya....haven't had that in a while
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15:14 <z-man> joda_bot: here?
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> ack, how the hell am I supposed to figure out how much work is required to lift a bucket of leaky water?
15:15 <joda_bot> z-man: yes
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> er, a leaky bucket of water
15:15 <z-man> How is the .nsi installer stuff supposed to work now?
15:15 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: if you're wise just the weight of the bucket :-)
15:15 <joda_bot> z-man: ah, I did not make that decision
15:15 <joda_bot> but I guess they should go to build/win32 ?
15:15 <z-man> Umm, ok :)
15:15 <guru3> http://www.svenswmwette.com/
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> the bucket's not empty when I start lifting it...
15:16 <joda_bot> guru3: already know that one :-)
15:16 <z-man> So I should just fumble something for 0.3.0?
15:16 <guru3> heh
15:16 <joda_bot> z-man: hm, the files are still in the visual c build module right now
15:16 <joda_bot> z-man: If you prefer me to move the files, I can do it
15:17 <z-man> Right, and I suppose they should still work with minimal adaptions
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> what do you mean "how should it work"?
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> do you mean just "where does it get the files"?
15:17 <z-man> Well, I want to know which buttons I have to push to make a Windows build.
15:17 <joda_bot> z-man: are there any paths inside the installer, except the pointer to the dist build dir ?
15:18 <z-man> No, the installer, once copied into "dist", works only in the current directory
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh.  If you have nsis installed, the way it's supposed to work is you just right-click on the .nsi file and say "compile with nsis"
15:18 <joda_bot> ah... in ArmagetronAd project, select target Release Win32
15:18 <joda_bot> and then build
15:18 <joda_bot> it should go down all projects and compile them
15:18 <z-man> I know those parts, thank you both :)
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok.  So what changed then?  Is it just the location of the built files that changed?
15:19 <joda_bot> afterwards the files are in armagetronad/buid/dist 
15:19 <z-man> But currently, the nsis installer files are in dead parts of the project and probably a bit outdated.
15:19 <joda_bot> z-man: What was the question then, or was it a statement ?
15:19 <z-man> The question was: How am I supposed to handle the release?
15:19 <z-man> I can build the source tarball...
15:19 <z-man> the source zip...
15:20 <z-man> unzip the source zip in Windows...
15:20 <joda_bot> z-man: right, that's because I did not have time to learn about nsi ... but I'm going to
15:20 <z-man> build with makedist.bat and code::blocks...
15:20 <z-man> But then I have a build/dist directory and no installer :)
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, ummm......
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure where the problem is, I guess
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> what has changed since the last windows release?
15:20 <z-man> Everything :)
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> is it just joda moving the build files around?
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> so the last windows release wasn't done with code::blocks at all?
15:21 <z-man> Well, actually, yes.
15:21 <z-man> It was.
15:21 <joda_bot> I've one minor change here, that might help ... I splitted makedist.bat into makedist.bat and update_version.bat (which autogenerates the version.h)
15:21 <joda_bot> I also have to update the wiki build docs ... 
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> ok, then the only thing that should need to be changed is either the location of the nsi file or where code::blocks dumps the completed files
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> where does code::blocks put stuff?  I know where visualC does...
15:21  * Lucifer_arma needs to get out of his weirdCamelCase thing
15:22 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Is stuff the release files ?
15:22 <z-man> Code::blocks build goes into armagetronad/build/dist
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> the stuff that goes into the installer
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> and after you build successfully, is it filled with files?
15:22 <joda_bot> z-man: got it :-)
15:22 <z-man> Joda: actually, do you have the build module checked out into armagetronad/build or is it an empty directory for you?
15:23 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: after you run makedist.bat most files are there, once you build the exe - running makedist.bat again adds library dlls (which had to be compiled)
15:23  * Lucifer_arma wistfully wishes we had the cross-compiler stuff working for this
15:23 <z-man> (before you run the build and makedist.bat)
15:23 <joda_bot> z-man: I exspect it to be empty
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> so you run makedist.bat twice then
15:23 <z-man> ok, good :)
15:23 <joda_bot> z-man: perhaps we should rename it ?
15:23 <z-man> Naa, it's fine
15:23 <joda_bot> I just wanted to keep it inside the project dir
15:23 <z-man> because the build module belongs one level further up.
15:24 <joda_bot> I know
15:24 <joda_bot> But I'll consider renaming it, because it might be confusing with 3 build directories :-)
15:24 <joda_bot> perhaps build-tron, build, build-libs ?
15:25 <z-man> Soooo, I think we should just put the .nsi stuff inside armagetronad/win32 and have makedist.bat copy it to build/dist.
15:25 <joda_bot> where build is the svn module ?
15:25 <z-man> build is fine for me.
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> haha, I was taking it for granted you already did that
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B95B7.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:25 <z-man> I had expected it, too :)
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> the .nsi file should be handled that way if it isn't already, so we can use relative paths in it :)
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> you know, so we can have make install on the cross-compiler setup the same build structure...
15:25 <joda_bot> ok, then move them to win32 :-)
15:25 <joda_bot> or I'll do it
15:26 <z-man> Could you do it? makedist.bat is yours now.
15:26 <joda_bot> fine
15:26 <joda_bot> I'll also commit the generate_version.bat then
15:26 <z-man> It has a line already that seems to try to handle the .nsi copying, but nothing happens.
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> is it possible to automate it completely?  Where you just run one script and it setups up the dist directory, calls make to build, then does the second half, then runs nsis?
15:26 <z-man> May be a leftover from my stuff.
15:26  * Lucifer_arma already knows nsis can be run from the commandline quite well
15:27 <joda_bot> right, because it assumes, to copy it from build/smth. (which refers the build module
15:27 <z-man> joda_bot: yes, give us the update, too. On a release, the version replacement is handled in Unix already.
15:27 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I don't know how well code::blocks is automatable
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B81BE.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, if we were using cygwin it'd be completely automatable.  :)  I hear we'd still be able to with MSYS
15:29 <z-man> Personally, automation in Windows is not a high priority. The worst part for me is booting into it :)
15:29 <z-man> After that is done, a build/release is so little work it's not worth to automate.
15:29 <z-man> Now, cross-compilation...
15:33 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
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15:58 <Lucifer_arma> holy fucking hell
15:58 <xzl_shaggy> what
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> my kubuntu system's trashed and all I've got that works is this t2 system that's not entirely stable
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> rather, what works is stable, but it wouldn't build firefox and some others.  now I"m going to have to creep by with konqueror while I run another t2 build
15:59 <joda_bot> commiting
15:59 <joda_bot> I just updated the readme's
16:00 <xzl_shaggy> oh, well.. all that went over my head
16:01 <joda_bot> commited
16:01 <joda_bot> z-man: done
16:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: that cycle_delay crash thingy is fixed now?
16:02 <wrtlprnft> I didn't get any mail and the svn logs show a bugfix by you, was that all of it?
16:03 <wrtlprnft> and, sorry that that happened. I checked in the hybrid server, but I just built and ran the dedicated one, without connecting to it
16:08 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-198-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:10 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, it's fixed, never mind, it just happened in server mode.
16:10 <z-man> joda_bot: got it. But I'll need to update the scripts, they're not yet adapted to the wav -> ogg change
16:10 <z-man> and whatnot else...
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: apparently I am getting email from the forums, it was just my broke-ass kubuntu system that couldn't handle it.  some problem with a shared library needed by kmail that was replaced with an older version
16:11 <z-man> Now, where is src/doc gone in the windows zip?
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: long story, not worth going into :(
16:11 <joda_bot> the nsi scripts ?
16:11 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:12 <z-man> yes, those.
16:12 <joda_bot> z-man: Code::Blocks does not build the documenation as I can't build it on windows (yet)
16:13 <z-man> Yes, but previously, the docs were build on Unix and packed into the source .zip.
16:13 <z-man> Apparently, that's not happening any more.
16:13 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: ok
16:13 <joda_bot> no idea , sorry :|
16:13 <z-man> probably my fault.
16:15 <joda_bot> I'll add two items on the sf tracker for me
16:15 <joda_bot> hm, it's one basically... to enable armagetronad to be installed multiple times on a system
16:16 <joda_bot> e.g. customized startmenu entry + multiple uninstaller entries
16:17 <joda_bot> is this build system or interface ?
16:21 <joda_bot> choose to put it into build system
16:22 <z-man> Good choice
16:22 <joda_bot> :-)
16:26 <wrtlprnft> z-man: so any chance we can get the cycle_delay factor thing on BF fortress? Maybe CYCLE_DELAY 0.09 and CYCLE_DELAY_DOUBLEBIND_FACTOR 1.11111?
16:26 <z-man> Sure, but I first want to catch the recording bug.
16:26 <wrtlprnft> oh, ok
16:26 <wrtlprnft> no rush :)
16:26 <wrtlprnft> let them play "normal" fortress for a bit
16:26 <z-man> And I was thinking more of DELAY .05 and FACTOR 2 :)
16:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure, but that'll give huge client prediction errors
16:27 <z-man> Not if we also use DOUBLEBIND_TIME.
16:27 <wrtlprnft> aaaah
16:27 <wrtlprnft> nice idea
16:28 <wrtlprnft> of course, DOUBLEBIND_TIME can easily be cheated on the client, but noone will if it gives you client misprediction errors ;)
16:29 <z-man> Seriously think PsYkO can compile his own client?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> uh...
16:29 <wrtlprnft> search the binary for the string DOUBLEBIND_TIME and replace it by something different
16:29 <wrtlprnft> then the client won't know the setting ;)
16:31 <z-man> Who added sounds and textures to the server .nsi script?
16:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:31 <wrtlprnft> what's a .nsi script?
16:31 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia nsi
16:31 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.55 seconds: NS? Runav?k - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS%C3%8D_Runav%C3%ADk>; NSI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI>; New Slovenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Slovenia_Christian_People's_Party>; National Space Institute - Wikipedia, the free (3 more messages)
16:31 <wrtlprnft> #google .nsi
16:31 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.16 seconds: Web Hosting, web site design and domains from Network Solutions: <http://www.networksolutions.com/>; WHOIS Search provides domain registration information from Network ...: <http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp>; Index: <http://lms.leviton.com/>; Double-Take Software the industry leader in data protection ...: <http://www.nsisoftware.com/>; (1 more message)
16:32 <z-man> Probably just nobody bothered to remove them :)
16:32 <joda_bot> z-man: I didn't
16:32 <wrtlprnft> http://www.nsisoftware.com/ ?!
16:33 <wrtlprnft> or does it stand for wiNdowS Installer?
16:35 <joda_bot> nullsoft install script
16:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: or something like that
16:35 <joda_bot> it's a open source project inspired or based on the shareware winamp installer
16:37 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:37 <wrtlprnft> ok
16:41 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
16:42 <z-man> wrtlprnft: which of the font files need to be installed?
16:42 <z-man> Only the .ttf?
16:42 <z-man> the two of them?
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16:44 <wrtlprnft> only the ttf
16:44 <wrtlprnft> the other one is the file from which it got created
16:45 <wrtlprnft> it can only be read by fontforge and contains stuff like the images I created it from and lines I used to make the characters more consistent
16:47 <z-man> Ok, building installers from SVN works, apart from the docs which have to be copied over from a release into dist manually to silence an NSIS error. It should work for the release. Now, off to adapt the version of the nsis script...
16:49 <wrtlprnft> there is no way in c++ to get the size of an array, right?
16:50 <wrtlprnft> of a statically defined one like int i[] = {1,2,3,4};
16:50 <z-man> Of course there is, sizeof()
16:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, right, thanks
16:51 <z-man> do sizeof(i)/sizeof(int) :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> forgot about that one
16:51 <wrtlprnft> I just knew there was some crazy template stuff to get the size
16:51 <wrtlprnft>     template <typename Type, unsigned Size>
16:51 <wrtlprnft>     Type sum(Type const (&array)[Size])
16:51 <z-man> joda_bot: Is it intentional that the client exe is called plain Armagetron.exe, no ad?
16:57 <wrtlprnft> ok, another dumb question: If i have a global object in a header file, can I still specify its constructor in the c++ file?
16:57 <wrtlprnft> *cpp
16:58 <z-man> You should declare the object in the header with "extern"
16:58 <wrtlprnft> ok
16:58 <z-man> Then you should be fine, just define it with constructor in one cpp file.
16:59 <z-man> If you define an object in a header, you get multiple copies and linker trouble.
16:59 <wrtlprnft> still the same error :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> * :(
16:59 <wrtlprnft> extern std::map<tString, tValue::Callback<cCockpit>::cb_ptr> stc_callbacks;
16:59 <wrtlprnft> that's the header
16:59 <wrtlprnft> stc_callbacks(cbarray, cbarray+sizeof(cbarray)/sizeof(cbpair));
16:59 <wrtlprnft> that's the c++
17:00 <wrtlprnft> ah, i have to re- specify the type
17:00 <wrtlprnft> thanks
17:00  * z-man didn't do anything
17:00 <wrtlprnft> yes you did
17:00 <wrtlprnft> 16:58 <z-man> You should declare the object in the header with "extern"
17:04 <joda_bot> z-man: no that's a mistake
17:05 <joda_bot> z-man: but I just keep it the way it was (I guess)
17:05  * wrtlprnft wonders why the AI is still called Armagetron
17:05 <z-man> Could you change it to armagetronad.exe?
17:05 <spidey> man
17:06 <spidey> that bot's evil 
17:06 <z-man> the AI loader script can't handle spaces :)
17:06 <spidey> i can hardly ever beat that little shit
17:06 <wrtlprnft> z-man: well, I meant ArmagetronAd or Armagetronad
17:06 <wrtlprnft> "Armagetron Advanced" is >15chars anyways
17:06 <z-man> hehe
17:07 <z-man> I don't know whether that restriction applies to AIs
17:07 <wrtlprnft> it applies to the old scoretable
17:07 <wrtlprnft> it cuts of excess chats
17:07 <wrtlprnft> *chars
17:07 <spidey> really? i'ma name a bot supercalafragilisticsexpealadoses
17:07 <wrtlprnft> like it cuts of the 2 in an imposter's name with 15 chars
17:08 <wrtlprnft> IIRC
17:12 <z-man> joda_bot: did the .exe name change myself, don't bother with it.
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> he's easy, a good fake gets him every time
17:26 <wrtlprnft> std::map is acting weird... why does this work:
17:27 <wrtlprnft> 	    *stc_callbacks.find(callback);
17:27 <wrtlprnft> if this doesn't
17:27 <wrtlprnft> stc_callbacks[callack];
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> callack != callback
17:28 <wrtlprnft> I meant callback
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they just didn't implement a [ operator?
17:28 <wrtlprnft> typed the second one since i didn't have it ready for copy and paste
17:28 <wrtlprnft> the operator exists and works in other spots...
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> it takes a key.  Does find take a key or a value?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> a key
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know.  stl has some peculiarities...
17:37 <wrtlprnft> stl compiler errors are no fun
17:41 <wrtlprnft> looks like std::sets don't like containing function pointers very much :(
17:42 <wrtlprnft> std::set<cbptr> stc_forbiddenCallbacks;
17:42 <wrtlprnft>      cbptr asdf;
17:42 <wrtlprnft> //...
17:42 <wrtlprnft> 	    stc_forbiddenCallbacks.insert(asdf);
17:42 <wrtlprnft> where cbptr is a typedef for some crazy-long function pointer type
17:44 <wrtlprnft> second
17:45 <wrtlprnft> you can't compare function pointers?! what the heck?
17:45 <joda_bot> z-man: will do
17:46 <joda_bot> z-man: ok
17:46 <joda_bot> gn8 all
17:46 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong with doing that? If you can compare char*, why not char(void)*?
17:46 <wrtlprnft> night
17:46 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-015-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:49 <wrtlprnft> and you can't even reinterpret_cast them to some other type either? That sucks. How am i supposed to store them in a set?
18:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50874471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:37 <Vanhayes> #eliza Hello
18:37 <armabot> Vanhayes: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
18:43 <Vanhayes> #eliza What time is it?
18:43 <armabot> Vanhayes: What do you think?
18:43 <Vanhayes> #eliza I didnt think u coukld answer that
18:43 <armabot> Vanhayes: Can you elaborate on that?
18:43 <Vanhayes> #eliza I didnt think u coukld answer the question I ask you
18:43 <armabot> Vanhayes: Why do you say that?
18:44 <Vanhayes> #eliza Goodbye
18:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: My secretary will send you a bill.
18:44 <Vanhayes> lol
18:44 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191121.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:02  * MaZuffeR wonders how many actually recognizes it's me playing with a fake name
19:18 <Lucifer_arma> are you (whisper) again?
19:21 <MaZuffeR> not again, still :)
19:21 <MaZuffeR> your_mom figured it out
19:26 <Lucifer_arma> umm, actually, I told him last night
19:26 <Lucifer_arma> when he was still 7
19:26 <Lucifer_arma> he joined on my team, what did you expect me to do?  ;)
19:28 <MaZuffeR> just tell him that i'm really good and that he has to watch out for me, that's what i told my team when he joined
19:30 <MaZuffeR> now i have to come up with a new name, SHOUT maybe ;)
19:55 <spidey> i figured it out first :p
20:51 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-185-63.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
21:01 <spidey> ahah
21:02 -!- SuPeRTaRD [n=blah@adsl-71-145-139-15.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> really, is another immunization going to make teenagers feel any more bulletproof than they already feel?
21:16 <spidey> huh?
21:17  * spidey just got off fortress,40 started something not knowing i was me,heh
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21:29 <spidey> deja who
21:29 <spidey> ryhmes with vu xD
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I only told mom, I didn't tell my whole team, MaZuffeR :)
21:32 <spidey> at first i thought it was you lucifer
21:32 <spidey> then i looked at ping and it was low
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> heh, no, I'm out for a few days, provided this t2 build gets off the ground
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> my cpu will be occupied building t2
21:32 <spidey> then when i did the mac clone and came back maz said heh
21:32 <spidey> so i knew it was him
21:32 <spidey> xD
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'll take it as a compliment you mistook mazuffer for me, though :)
21:33 <spidey> lmao
21:33 <MaZuffeR> lol
21:33 <spidey> i'm getting good at this fake name thing 
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> of the players that can genuinely beat me (you know, I don't do something stupid or get all arrogant or crazy), MaZuffeR's one of the ones that can do it consistently.  grrrr.
21:33 <spidey> i figured out who guru3s fake name was last night
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> he has a fake name
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> ?
21:34 <spidey> yer
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> don't say it's Tank Program, please
21:34 <spidey> he did last night,unless i'm wrong about it
21:34 <spidey> no it's not....
21:34 <spidey> i figured it out cause he did that "))" smilly without the ":"
21:35 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090ADD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:36 <Lucifer_arma> sure that wasn't z-man?  He's been using fake names too...
21:36 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to know I can take credit for the latest surge of fake names, but I don't know that I can.  ;)
21:36 <spidey> i can :D
21:36 <Lucifer_arma> not for mine, you can't, heh
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> I did it originally because I'd picked up a stalker
21:37 <spidey> lies!
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> and no, you weren't the stalker
21:37 <spidey> damn
21:37 <spidey> :<
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> he'd come in, call me by my real name, then spend all his time going after me
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> which wasn't a problem when he was on the other team, he'd just get frustrated and leave
21:38 <spidey> lmao
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> but it was a problem when he was on my team
21:38 <MaZuffeR> when using a fake name, shout GHAB! when ghableska joins :D (he'll think you're Vanhayes)
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:38 <spidey> hahaha
21:38 <spidey> i'll do that
21:38 <MaZuffeR> i did it while Van was playing too
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> I've been thinking of stealing vanhayes's "/me casts voodoo" instant chat
21:39 <spidey> lol
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> we should start using each other's fake names, you know, after they've been revealed
21:39 <spidey> you could use stop
21:39 <spidey> or china
21:39 <spidey> or sony
21:39 <spidey> hmm
21:39 <spidey> oh
21:39 <spidey> my ascii names
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> make it a game where you can only use the name after you've guessed who's it is
21:40 <Lucifer_arma> so I won't tell you who I am, but if you guess, you can use the name :)
21:40 <spidey> heheh
21:40 <Lucifer_arma> you have to guess correctly, of course
21:40 <spidey> seeing as i guessed maz's name first can i be whisper :D
21:41 <MaZuffeR> be my guest, i've come up with a new name already
21:41 <spidey> SHOUT ?
21:41 <MaZuffeR> no
21:41  * Lucifer_arma wonders why he just suggested a game he isn't good at
21:41 <spidey> damn
21:41 <spidey> hahaha
21:41 <spidey> well...i'm good at it :d
21:41 <spidey> i just gotta compare pings and watch game play
21:41 <spidey> and a few other things
21:42 <MaZuffeR> and I have too old ones that no-one afaik figured out
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> I can arrange for my ping to fluctuate
21:42 <spidey> so
21:42 <spidey> i always know who lucifer is
21:42 <spidey> he makes two mistakes
21:42 <spidey> always
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> Watch out for that wall!
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> what's the other?
21:42 <spidey> n
21:42 <spidey> no
21:42 <spidey> "oops" and "ck"
21:42 <spidey> "ack"
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> really?  that's been my favorite instant chat for a couple of years now
21:43 <MaZuffeR> i'm moving to my parents on friday, so you wont know what my ping will be (neither do I)
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll need to make a LAG chat, eh?
21:43 <spidey> lol
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> also, ck is usually "fuck" where the game missed the fu
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> ack always comes out right
21:43 <spidey> heh
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> what about errrr, and ummmmm?
21:45  * Lucifer_arma complains about lag with "errr" and "ummm"
21:45 <spidey> slides
21:46 <spidey> slide/ack/oops
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you hadn't noticed, I consider sliding a legitimate lag complaint
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> for people who don't complain about lag much, that is
21:47 <spidey> oh
21:47 <spidey> hey
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> because those people can be trusted to have actually slid rather than just saying they did so nobody thinks they suck
21:47 <spidey> i get these weird slies
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> the ones that result in:
21:47 <spidey> it's not lag slides but like the system caused the slide
21:47  * Lucifer_arma core dumped SOMEDICKHEAD for 2 points.
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> ?
21:47 <spidey> but it doesn't with other builds
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> which build are you running?  the autopackage one right now?
21:48 <spidey> gcc
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> oh, you play it in windows don't you?
21:48 <spidey> i play tron on the windows box
21:48 <spidey> yea
21:48 <spidey> it's in a better playing posistion
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> silly's got a similar complaint
21:48 <spidey> and i don't feel like moving things around
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> make a client-side recording and post it to the forums
21:49 <spidey> k
21:49 <spidey> wait
21:49 <spidey> 'er ok
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> that's exactly the kind of bug the recording was built to catch, the ones you ca't quantify/qualify, are hard to determine if they even exist, but turn out to actually exist
21:49 <spidey> sev
21:52 <spidey> come play
21:52 <spidey> i need good people for it to do it
21:53 <spidey> there's only 2
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I'm doing calc homework that was due today...
22:01 <spidey> k
22:01 <spidey> i got it in 3 parts
22:02 <spidey> barely noticable
22:02 <spidey> sbutn you can see it
22:15 <spidey> i'ma email it
22:15 <spidey> 11mb though
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not going to be able to do anything about it, you need to get it where people can download it
22:19 <wrtlprnft> did i miss anything?
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> best I could do is post it on my webserver and give you a link you can give to other people :)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, new game :)
22:19 <spidey> lol
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> if you figure out who someone is and they acknowledge it, you can use the fake name :)
22:20 <wrtlprnft> O_o
22:20 <wrtlprnft> deleting grid...
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> so if you see me playing as, say, JesusRules, and you figure out it's me, then you can be JesusRules :)
22:20  * spidey doesn't know what to post/say so you can post it :p
22:20 <wrtlprnft> creating grid...
22:20 <wrtlprnft> Loading map Anonymous/polygon/regular/square-1.0.1.aamap.xml...
22:20 <wrtlprnft> Go (round 2 of 10 )!
22:20 <spidey> LOL
22:21  * Lucifer_arma core dumped spidey for 3.455x10^200 points.
22:21 <spidey> :o
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 10^200 doesn't fit in a float
22:21 <wrtlprnft> and certainly not into an integer :P
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> score's an int anyway...
22:21 <spidey> #g 3.455*10^200
22:21 <armabot> spidey: 3.45500 * (10^200) = 3.45500 &#215; 10^(200)
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #g 3.455x10^200 % 2^31
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> haha, google gave it back in even less readable form :)
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:22 <spidey> lol
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #g 3.455x10^200 mod 2^31
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #g mod(3.455x10^200, 2^31)
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:22 <wrtlprnft> wtf
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> #google "google calculator modulo"
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 3.455x10^200 % 2^32
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
22:22 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Search took 0.60 seconds: Google Guide Quick Reference: Google Calculator (Cheat Sheet): <http://www.googleguide.com/print/calc_ref.pdf>; Google Guide Quick Reference: Google Calculator (Cheat Sheet): <http://www.googleguide.com/help/calculator.html>; Google Web Search Features: <http://www.google.com/help/calculator.html>; Google Directory - Science > Math > Algebra > (2 more messages)
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 3.455*10^200 % 2^32
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #g 3.455*10^200 % 2^31
22:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:23 <wrtlprnft> #math calc 3.455*10^200 % pow(2, 32)
22:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
22:23 <spidey> #g 3.455*200^10
22:23 <wrtlprnft> #math calc mod(3.455*10^200, pow(2, 32))
22:23 <armabot> spidey: 3.45500 * (200^10) = 3.53792 &#215; 10^(23)
22:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: 'mod' is not a defined function.
22:23 <wrtlprnft> grrrrrrrrrrrrr
22:23  * wrtlprnft pulls out kcalc
22:23 <spidey> ll
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> %  modulo (finds the remainder after division)
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> #g (3.455*10^200) % (2^31)
22:24 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ((3.45500 * (10^200))%) * (2^31) = 7.419556 &#215; 10^(207)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> it probably won't be able to calculate it anyways
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2^31
22:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2^31 = 2,147,483,648
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g (3.455*10^200) % 2,147,483,648
22:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:25 <wrtlprnft> say it like that, for all practical reasons you'll get a random score
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> nah, it could take years for it
22:25  * Lucifer_arma core dumped spidey for RAND points.
22:26 <wrtlprnft> and since it's using signed ints it will be negative with a .5 chance
22:26 <wrtlprnft> well, actually not .5
22:26 <wrtlprnft> .49999999999
22:26 <wrtlprnft> because 0 isn't negative :P
22:27 <spidey> hmm
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> isn't there one more positive number than negative number?
22:27 <spidey> how would i do thi
22:27 <spidey> this
22:27 <wrtlprnft> btw, on my math test:
22:27 <wrtlprnft> can you put a k=-3 in sigma notation?
22:27 <wrtlprnft> like, have k=-3 under it
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> sure
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> why not?  that's a range
22:27 <wrtlprnft> my math teacher doesn't think so
22:28 <wrtlprnft> he refuses to give me that mark
22:28 <spidey> #success [uptime][roulette]
22:28 <armabot> spidey: The operation succeeded.  spidey: 05:28:01 up 52 days, 5:33, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 *click*
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's like for( k=-3, k<=someothernumber; k++)
22:28 <wrtlprnft> exactly
22:28 <wrtlprnft> but he things k is an unsigned int
22:28 <wrtlprnft> or, a natural number in math terms
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, it's not?
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> if it was, we couldn't have our lower limit of integration negative...
22:28 <wrtlprnft> and someothernumber is oo
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, k's definitely a signed int, your math teacher is just smoking crack
22:29 <wrtlprnft> grr, I'm gonna get him for that
22:29 <wrtlprnft> I want that mark
22:29 <spidey> lol
22:29  * wrtlprnft looks for the wikipedia article that proves it
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> I tell you, it's a big sum that lies under integration, and you can pick any arbitrary range
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, if my scanner was working I'd send you a scan of a page out of my calc textbook that shows it ;)
22:29  * wrtlprnft won't mention he got 47.5/48 on that test, including the bonus question
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> damn, you couldn't do better?
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> 47.5 IS FAILING
22:30 <wrtlprnft> no :D
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> oh, out of 48 possible
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> :P
22:30 <wrtlprnft> #g 47.5/.48
22:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 47.5 / .48 = 98.9583333
22:30 <wrtlprnft> #g 48.5/.48
22:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 48.5 / .48 = 101.041667
22:30 <wrtlprnft> i want that mark!
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, my teacher sets a limit of 100, so bonus points cn't give you more than 100
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> he doesn't believe in percentages > 100
22:31 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-195-208.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> it helps him when he gets the penis spam emails
22:31 <spidey> mommy can i goto a party and get drunk pwease i'll clean my room!
22:31 <wrtlprnft> hmm, my teacher uses some school math program that most teachers use, and it believes in it :P
22:32 <wrtlprnft> (btw I don't think many teachers fully understand that thing)
22:32 <Your_mom_arma> spidey, sure why not as long as your over 21
22:32 <spidey> damn :<
22:32 <wrtlprnft> you should hear some of the statements my english teacher makes :D
22:32 <wrtlprnft> totally gets the math wrong
22:32  * Lucifer_arma notes that most teachers are technophobes and Your_mom_arma is a bit of a wet blanket sometimes.
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> I never did like trusting my GPA to english teachers
22:33 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summation
22:33 <wrtlprnft> look at one of the examples
22:33 <wrtlprnft> 0<=k<100
22:33 <spidey> ok luci email sent :/
22:33 <wrtlprnft> that proves that k does NOT have to be a natural number
22:35  * wrtlprnft is gonna print that out and hold it under his math teacher's nose
22:35 <spidey> why bitch about a 98? :D
22:36 <spidey> i wouldn't
22:36 <wrtlprnft> I will
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> umm, that doesn't prove it can be an integer, only that it can be a whole number
22:36 <wrtlprnft> If i didn't bitch about a 98 I would never get to bitch
22:36 <spidey> besides if you piss him off by proving you're smarter,he might knock a few points off the final adverage
22:36 <wrtlprnft> 0 is not a natural number
22:36 <wrtlprnft> and -3 is an integer
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> 0 is a whole number, though
22:37 <wrtlprnft> I don't care if it could be a real number
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> natural number, then whole number (natural numbers + 0), then integer
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> so, edit the pge real quick and add an example that includes -1, then print it
22:37 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:37 <spidey> hahahha
22:38 <spidey> what if he goes to the page though?
22:38 <spidey> and sees it's not there
22:38 <spidey> then wrtl's pwned
22:38 <wrtlprnft> don't wanna make a photo of your math book real quick?
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> he can check the page history and see that wrtl added it :)
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> let me see if I can find such a page real quick
22:39 <wrtlprnft> I'll get him for discussing with me and making me look stupid :P
22:39 <spidey> lmfao
22:40 <spidey> why not just do what i used to do when i went to school
22:40 <spidey> talk so much shit about it the teacher gets confused and agrees with you
22:40 <wrtlprnft> oh, anyways:
22:40 <spidey> then again my teachers where just about as stupid as me
22:40 <spidey> :/
22:40 <wrtlprnft> > is the sum of f(k) over all (integer) k in the specified range,
22:41  * spidey is getting his GED next year
22:41 <spidey> >.>
22:41 <spidey> actually this year
22:42 <spidey> ohhh
22:42 <spidey> i can get my license to
22:42 <spidey> woot
22:42 <spidey> argh,that means i'ma have to get a job aswell
22:43  * spidey refuses to work at mcdonalds unless lcifer goes there
22:43 <spidey> then i can spit on his big mac xD
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> I can't believe I didn't find just one sum with a negative k
22:44 <wrtlprnft> :(
22:44 <wrtlprnft> anyways, that one sentence basically says it
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> plenty of integrals with a negative lower bound, but if your teacher doesn't know about the Riemann Sum, he won't know an integral from his ass
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> in which case, you'd have to show him the connection
22:45 <wrtlprnft> and, he has to show me where the book says that it has to be a whole number :P
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> that sentence does say it, and the page is in precise math terms, it should be good just like it is
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> even better if you can find the book saying integer too :)
22:46  * wrtlprnft doesn't have the math book
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> now that I think about it, I can believe my book doesn't show negative k's there
22:46 <wrtlprnft> we don't use it, but I'm sure my teacher has a copy
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> it uses 0 and 1 as the lower bound because it's easier to show in examples with real summations, then it goes on to use negative lower bounds in definite integrals
22:47 <wrtlprnft> it was something like (k=1)E(oo) 64 * 0.25^(k-1)
22:47 <wrtlprnft> and I simplified it to (k=-3)E(oo) 0.25^k
22:48 <wrtlprnft> uh, the thing left of the E is upposed to go on the bottom, the bracket right (infinity sign) to the top
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> are you sure it simplifies that way?
22:50  * spidey is watching another documentry
22:50 <wrtlprnft> 64 * 0.25^(1-1) = 64
22:51 <wrtlprnft> 0.25^(-3) = 4^3 = 2^6 = 64
22:51 <wrtlprnft> same thing
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> for k=1, what about k=1000?
22:51 <wrtlprnft> doesn't matter
22:51 <wrtlprnft> you're going to infinity, right?
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
22:51 <wrtlprnft> the first term matters, for all further ones you're just taking a quarter of the previous one
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1/4)^1000
22:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 / 4)^1,000 = 0
22:53 <wrtlprnft> haha
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1/4)^10
22:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 / 4)^10 = 9.53674316 &#215; 10^(-7)
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> better
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64*(1/4)^9
22:53 <wrtlprnft> #g 64 * (1/4)^(10-3)
22:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 * ((1 / 4)^9) = 0.000244140625
22:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 64 * ((1 / 4)^(10 - 3)) = 0.00390625
22:54 <wrtlprnft> #g 64 * (1/4)^(10-4)
22:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 64 * ((1 / 4)^(10 - 4)) = 0.015625
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64*(1/4)^11
22:54 <wrtlprnft> #g 64 * (1/4)^(10-2)
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 * ((1 / 4)^11) = 1.52587891 &#215; 10^(-5)
22:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 64 * ((1 / 4)^(10 - 2)) = 0.0009765625
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64*(1/4)^12
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 * ((1 / 4)^12) = 3.81469727 &#215; 10^(-6)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64*(1/4)^13
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 * ((1 / 4)^13) = 9.53674316 &#215; 10^(-7)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> duh
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you're right
22:54 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm sleepy
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> and it's been a very long time since I've had to work seriously with sums like that :)
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> what we do in my calc class is make a Riemann Sum, which is one of those things, and then make it an integral.  so we pass through the sum part to get to the fun part :)
22:55 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:56  * wrtlprnft wants to have a more advanced math course
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> speaking of whiches, I need to do some solids of rotation using shells before I go to bed
22:56 <wrtlprnft> shells?
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> you'll love calculus :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
22:56 <wrtlprnft> bash?
22:56 <wrtlprnft> zsh?
22:56 <wrtlprnft> ksh?
22:56 <wrtlprnft> csh?
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> you make a couple of graphs that intersect and make an enclosed figure
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> then you rotate that figure on an axis
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> then you setup some thin-walled cylinders (pipes, really)
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> then you sum them all up and let their thickness go to 0, and the number you end up with is the volume of the object
22:57 <wrtlprnft> which object?
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> the "sum them all up and let their thickness go to 0" is the Riemann Sum thing I mentioned
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> the object that you made by taking a couple of graphs and rotating them on an axis
22:58 <wrtlprnft> ah
22:58 <wrtlprnft> so you mean 3d graphs?
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> the graphs rotate through z-space, so the axis is a x= or y= axis
22:58 <wrtlprnft> won't get a solid thing with 2d graphs...
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> not quite 3d graphs, it's still using 2d graph stuff to work.  I think there's harder stuff in my future with actual 3d graphs.
22:59 <wrtlprnft> you don't happen to have your math notes on your website?
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> no, I take those by pencil, sorry
22:59 <wrtlprnft> :(
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, hang on
22:59 <wrtlprnft> who needs history notes? :P ;)
22:59 <wrtlprnft> :P + ;) * ;P?
22:59 <wrtlprnft> s/*/=
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> damn page
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, try googling "solids of revolution"
23:01 <wrtlprnft> #g "solids of revolution"
23:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:01 <wrtlprnft> #gogle "solids of revolution"
23:01 <wrtlprnft> #google "solids of revolution"
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> you're bound to hit someone's neato webpage with killer pictures
23:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.46 seconds: Solids of Revolution: <http://chuwm2.tripod.com/revolution/>; Visualizations for Volumes of Solids in Calculus: <http://mathdemos.gcsu.edu/solids/>; 4.8 Volumes of Solids of Revolution: <http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~klbooksite/4.08/408.html>; Calculus I (Math 2413) - Applications of Integrals - Volumes of ...: (2 more messages)
23:02 <wrtlprnft> aaaaaah ok
23:02 <wrtlprnft> that's what you meant by rotation
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah :)
23:02  * wrtlprnft knows that from povray
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it would have made more sense if I'd said extrusion?
23:03 <wrtlprnft> probably
23:03 <wrtlprnft> we actually did some stuff in germany, but just with simple forms
23:03 <wrtlprnft> like triangles and parts of circles
23:03 <wrtlprnft> anything that will only contain spheres and cones in the end ;)
23:05 <spidey> lol @ this
23:05 <spidey> :s
23:06 <wrtlprnft> ?
23:06 <spidey> i'm watching a documentry on supermassive black holes
23:06 <spidey> they're basically saying every galaxy has one only some are not "feeding" (sucking things in) 
23:07 <spidey> which would mean there's one in our galaxy ;s
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> isn't tht one of the hypotheses on what's at the center of our galaxy?
23:10 <spidey> that's what i just said....
23:10 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:10 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, ok.  heh
23:11 <spidey> but
23:11  * Lucifer_arma thinks we're subatomic particles in a nuclear explosion
23:11 <spidey> wouldn't that mean we're destin to be sucked to another galaxy?
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> no?
23:11 <spidey> well
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> I think it would mean that when our universe cools, we'll just be somebody's dust somewhere
23:12 <spidey> s/.universe/galaxy ?
23:12  * Lucifer_arma thinks it would be neat if we could shrink ourselves to a level where we could walk on electrons and found trees and planets and stuff
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> no, universe
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's consistent with the Big Bang theory :)
23:13 <spidey> i thought that was only for stars...
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> so from our point of view, all matter in the universe came from some mass of plutonium or uranium
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, see, what we see as stars are the nuclei of atoms in a macroverse overlaying our own universe
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> planets are electrons
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> which makes us subatomic particles no matter how you slice it
23:14 <spidey> 'er
23:14 <spidey> so
23:14  * Lucifer_arma hopes the molecule our solar system is in has a charge so we can leave our solar system
23:14 <spidey> you're saying we're midgets to someone else?
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, midgets are just half-sized humans
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> we're even tinier
23:14 <spidey> lmao
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> and if there was someone in the vicinity of our universe when it blew, they're not there anymore
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> but all of what's happening to us in billions of years is happening in the blink of an eye (or a little longer) to some folks engaged in some war that involves nuclear weapons
23:15 <spidey> yea
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> so, if that's true, then maybe when we blow something up, we spawn an entire universe in the process
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> so to make more life, we need only bomb more cities
23:15 <spidey> it's safe to say i don't wanna believe that
23:16 <spidey> seeing as when someone else decides to nue someone else we're dead
23:16 <spidey> pssh
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> ?  how's that?
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> maybe if there were another nuclear explosion nearby, sure, our universe would have to collide with it
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> but woudl we even notice?
23:17 <Your_mom_arma> i thought time was a constant
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, would it even happen while we're around?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> the problem here is that we can only observe from our own point of view :)
23:17 <spidey> heh
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> would we even be able to detect a timescale that takes our hundreds of billions of years and compresses it into a few moments in another, larger universe?
23:18 <spidey> doubtful
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, how long did it take the bomb at Hiroshima to finish detonating?  Before all the dust settled and the particles cooled
23:18 <spidey> unless the larger universe did it for us
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, but can they even detect us?  And if so, wht do we look like?
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you're a neutrino and you just don't know it
23:19 <spidey> hahahah
23:19 <Your_mom_arma> wheres socrates when i need him
23:19 <spidey> heh
23:20 <spidey> but if that where true
23:20 <spidey> wouldn't that mean there's other living things in other solar systems/galaxies ?
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> sure.  It doesn't make it a certainty, but it makes it highly likely
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> I thinkk, I could be wrong about that
23:21 <spidey> heh
23:21 <spidey> but if it where true,then it's is possible aliens do exsist and possibly some of the people wheren't lien when they said they saw them
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> now you're just getting crazy :)
23:22 <spidey> meh
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> so our solar system would have an atomic number of 9, which atom is that?
23:22 <spidey> beware of the zorgons!!!!
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, maybe not
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> do the moons around each planet count as electrons?
23:22 <spidey> hmm
23:22 <spidey> i kinda forgot my science clases
23:22 <spidey> :/
23:22 <spidey> i used to be awesome at science
23:22 <Your_mom_arma> where do subatomic particles fit into this?
23:23 <spidey> then i started sleeping in class >.>
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> that's what we are, because our solar system is an atom
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> and we are smaller than that, so we are subatomic particles
23:23 <spidey> ok
23:23 <spidey> but what is a black hole?
23:23 <spidey> and where does it fit in?
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know
23:23 <spidey> :p
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> I think those are God's toilets, to be honest
23:23 <spidey> lmfao
23:24 <Your_mom_arma> so wouldnt that mean there are beings on every panet that is the same type of atom we are?
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, see, now you're assuming that we know all about subatomic particles in our own universe, and we don't
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> that's a wildly active area of physics
23:24 <MaZuffeR> "Black holes are where God divided by zero." - Copy to Clipboard
23:24 <MaZuffeR>   --  Steven Wright
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> :)
23:24 <spidey> unless a crazy scientist from a larger universe started playing with atoms and rearranging things
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> isn't that what they did when they put too much plutonium together?
23:25 <spidey> heh
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't the big bang theory say that in the beginning, all matter in our universe was one hugely dense piece of matter?
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> Then it just started expanding
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> I seem to recall that some folks think it compressed a bit first
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, if that's do, look at one of the ways you build a nuclear bomb
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> you take some plutonium and surround it with a conventional explosive
23:26 <Your_mom_arma> so antimatter is just the random suff that the big bang couldnt fill
23:26 <Your_mom_arma> stuff even
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> when you detonite the conventional explosive, it compresses the plutonium, which reaches critical mass, then blows up
23:27 <spidey> so our universe was made by a nuke?
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> yep
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> and that oort cloud around our solar system could be part of some kid's brain
23:28 <spidey> with this theory that would mean it applies for our larger universe and the one bigger than that
23:28 <spidey> and so on
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> yep, and smaller too
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> infinitely recursive in both directions
23:28 <spidey> so if i stomp on the ground i could kill 6billion people?
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> and technically it's a hypothesis :)
23:28 <Your_mom_arma> i think you stole this from the men in black movies
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> I don't see why, the hypothesis doesn't include cold matter like what's on the ground, it only includes the matter that's in the explosion we're in
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, actually it's a pretty old concept, afaik, and I ripped it from a STTNG episode that predates MIB :)
23:29 <spidey> lol @ mom
23:30 <spidey> in 3 billion years our galaxy will end
23:30 <spidey> it'll collide with andromida
23:30 <spidey> another galaxy
23:30 <spidey> ;s
23:30 <spidey> so humands are dead anyways :o
23:30 <spidey> humans*
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> ?  just because our galaxy ends doesn't mean everything in it is over
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> just that a new galaxy will form or something like that
23:31 <spidey> wait
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> we'll just need to hang tight and hope none of the planets we live on collide with anything else
23:31 <GodTodd> cockroaches will survive....and apparently ants in TX
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  GodTodd will be lurking to jump in with some smart-ass comment, too.
23:32 <spidey> "if we're lucky and on the other side of the galaxy,we'll be thrown into the emtpiness of space"
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> He's going to heckle this collision endlessly :)
23:32 <GodTodd> usually ;)
23:32 <spidey> if not,we'll be a big bang
23:32 <spidey> heh
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, maybe andromeda is part of some other nearby explosion?
23:33 <spidey> 'uno
23:33 <spidey> now i'ma watch a documentry on the military
23:33 <spidey> wait i've seen that one
23:33 <Lucifer_arma> is it one of those show-the-flag-woo-woo-America-kicks-ass documentaries?
23:34 <spidey> no
23:34 <spidey> did you know
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> yes
23:34 <spidey> there'a 11 nukes lost on american soil
23:34 <spidey> that the military lost
23:34 <spidey> and are still active
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> that's all?
23:34 <spidey> heh
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> what about what's under the oceans?
23:34 <GodTodd> probably all in NM ;)
23:34 <spidey> that's all THEY SAY
23:34 <spidey> but who knows
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> there are some counts
23:35 <spidey> they only tell you enough to make you leave them alone
23:35 <spidey> then it's back to the secrete stuff
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> better check wikipedia, there's an article where they try to account for all the lost nukes
23:35 <Your_mom_arma> that doesnt even mention all the nuclear wase that dissapears into new jersey
23:35 <Your_mom_arma> waste even
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> by nuke I don't just mean warhead either, I mean nuclear power plants (submarines) too
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: that's not nuclear waste, those are immigrants
23:36 <spidey> hahah
23:36 <spidey> that's mean
23:36 <Your_mom_arma> really so three mile island is filled with canadians?
23:36 <spidey> LOL
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> worse yet, it's filled with French Canadians
23:36 <Your_mom_arma> haha
23:36  * spidey 's stomach hurts
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> didn't they just close the one reactor there, though?
23:37 <Your_mom_arma> ?
23:37 <Your_mom_arma> three mile island has been shut down for years, its a miny chernoble
23:37 <Lucifer_arma> there were like 3-4 reactors, and only one of them got fucked up, the others have kept running...
23:37 <Your_mom_arma> mini
23:37  * spidey has 82 videos
23:38  * spidey goes to find more documentries
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> oh ok, it was closed
23:39 <spidey> heh
23:39 <spidey> 264 results for "discovery channel"
23:39 <spidey> there's one "the history of haxing"
23:39 <spidey> lolz
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, TMI-1 is still in operation, it says on wikipedia
23:41 <GodTodd> three mile island is still somewhat operational according to wikipedia
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> TMI-2 is closed
23:41 <GodTodd> blah lucifer :P
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_Nuclear_Generating_Station
23:43 <Your_mom_arma> i was mistaken apperently
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's the same thing at chernobyl, isn't it?  3 of the original 4 reactors are still running?
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, that last chernobyl reaactor was shut down in 2000
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> Reactor 4 is the one that blew up on my -10 wedding anniversary, reactor 2 had a fire in 1991, Reactor 1 was shut down in 1998, and Reactor 4 in 2000, closing the plant
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> er, make that last one reactor 3
23:49 <spidey> sun of a bitch
23:49 <spidey> fuck fuck fuck >.>
23:50 <spidey> i just gave myself 45 minutes of cleaning
23:50 <spidey> grr brb
23:53 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
23:53 <spidey> wow
23:53 <spidey> i dumped my droor out but the ash tray didn't spill
23:54 <spidey> found another one of my harddrives
23:54 <spidey> lol

Log from 2006-06-13:
--- Day changed Tue Jun 13 2006
00:21 <spidey> lucifer
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> what?
00:41 <spidey> gots a question
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> ok, go
00:42 <spidey> when i play on faster servers i get more bugs,like i'll double bind on the rim and i'll stick there then explode,teleporting,exploding with half rubber left
00:42 <spidey> are those bugs or due to the server settigns
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> server settings
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> as your speed goes up, the noticeability of the mistakes goes up
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> like, say you have 10% packet loss
00:42 <spidey> k
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> you play on a slow speed server, the lost packets don't represent much in the way of actual movement on the grid
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, if you're going 6m/s and you lose 10% of your packets each second, the most you lose in terms of sync is 0.6 m/s, right?
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> now take the same cycle and put it at 100m/s.  Now you're losing 10m/s
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> when you do get a sync, that means teleporting and lag sliding.
00:44 <spidey> hmmm
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> You also lose the same information for other players, which includes turns.  So when a sync comes, you'll find walls that weren't there before
00:44 <spidey> would packet loss be server side or clientside?
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> high rubber and high speeds both affect the appearance of lag
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> packet loss is network, there's nothing we can do about it
00:44 <spidey> i know
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> now, if we're actually losing packets in our own code, that's a very serious problem
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> but outside of that, there's nothing we can do.  For all you know, your isp drops every 4th armagetron packet just to be a dick
00:45 <spidey> hahah
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'd suggest running the client on linux if you can, just because linux has a better network setup all the way around than windows
00:45 <spidey> i can but i can't
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> and of course servers that run on linux tend to be much better than servers run on windows
00:46 <spidey> the linux lcd screen is o my right and about 11 inches above my head
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> dual-boot your windows machine?
00:46 <spidey> can't i run 2 servers on it
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> you're running a server on your windows machine?  are you nuts?
00:46 <spidey> ...
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> there are other factors I haven't mentioned, I just kinda focused on packet loss :)
00:47 <spidey> it's got a better L2 cache and FSB than my nix pc
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> you didn't tell me the server versions, and some of those effects you described could be caused by older server versions that interpret the rules a little differently
00:47 <spidey> no it's a newer server
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> again, the differences aren't noticed terribly at low speeds and rubber, but move to high speeds and rubber and the differences show up
00:48 <spidey> hm
00:48 <spidey> really
00:48 <spidey> these things wasn't that bad when the server was using 2.7.1
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> it would be worthwhile if you could provide some recordings, preferably small ones.  :)
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> which server is it?
00:49 <spidey> then again it wasn't 50 rubber
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> don't tell me it's the mbc server
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah fuck, it's the mbc server
00:49 <spidey> lmao
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> your other option is to play on a server where the admin knows what the fuck he's doing :)
00:49 <spidey> heh
00:49 <spidey> i'ma start hosting a server i think
00:50 <spidey> use my old config 
00:50 <spidey> it was always full when i used those
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm hoping to find some time to bring mine back up soon.  I think I'm going to make it a simpler fortress server, couple of small teams with some obstacles and good terrain features
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> CT made a server that outdid mine for rotating maps and actually being playable, so I'm going to look into fortress variations that don't involve rotating maps :)
00:51  * spidey likes running 2.6.0
00:51 <spidey> xD
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> but I still get the award (if there is one) for having the first rotating map server :)
00:51 <spidey> hehe
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> and the second...
00:52 <spidey> grr
00:53 <spidey> i take back what i said earlier about having to get a job
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> you'll take mcdonald's now?
00:53 <spidey> fuck no
00:53  * Lucifer_arma flipped hamburgers for 4 years
00:53 <spidey> more like radio shack or walmart
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmm
00:53 <spidey> or something like that
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> around here anyway, fast food pays better than those places
00:54 <spidey> here you get minimal wadge
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> significantly better.  Heh.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> unless you get into the service center at walmart
00:54 <spidey> at fast food places
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> you know, oil changing and stuff
00:54  * spidey wants the electronics department
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> well, there's a shortage of fast food workers here and a high density of restaurants in general
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, there's no shortage of snobby teenage girls to do the other jobs
00:54 <spidey> hahaha
00:54 <spidey> you know what
00:55 <spidey> we'll ship all of ours to ya'll
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> so the people that worked at walmart and radio shack generally got $0.50->$1 less than I got at fast food
00:55 <spidey> we have a huge surplus of them
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I said there's no shortage!
00:55 <spidey> oh
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'll let you know if that changes!
00:55 <spidey> same here
00:55 <spidey> heh
00:55 <spidey> you do that
00:56 <spidey> atleast then when i do
00:56 <spidey> asking for $10-$20 every month or two won't be too much
00:56 <spidey> cause i'll have :|
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> there's gotta be some way you cna turn what you know about computers into freelance work...
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go smoke, bbiab
00:58 <spidey> i can do anything but soldier,well i can soldier but i don't trust myself that much xD
00:58 <Your_mom_arma> soldier?
00:59 <spidey> solder?
00:59 <spidey> metal wire
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> oh
00:59 <spidey> hot gun
00:59 <Your_mom_arma> soldering iron
00:59 <spidey> yea
00:59 <spidey> solder :p
01:00 <Your_mom_arma> the misspelling really threw me for a loop that time 
01:00 <spidey> hahah
01:00  * spidey has low grades in english
01:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> hey
01:01  * spidey trips z-man ON HIS WAY IN
01:01 <spidey> s-caps
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not good at soldering either, but I don't do electronics work anyway :)
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> there's an opportunity in smaller towns and less, umm, urban areas, I think, for linux in business :)
01:08 <spidey> who's gonna trust a 16 y/o with computer work?
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> whenever I'm in a small town I see either no computers, really old computers, or overpriced stuff with windows crap, and invariably I see dissatisfaction
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:08 <spidey> i mean afterall they're adults and know more :p
01:08 <spidey> but really they're fucking morons
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> it's entirely possible you're in a different world than I am.  :)  In my world, kids still fix computers because adults are too stupid to do it
01:08 <spidey> i was being sarcastic
01:09 <spidey> someone told me once
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> just think about it, if you figure something out, jump on it, eh?
01:09 <spidey> "zomg i got a virus my computer won't even turn on"
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> freelance work, imo, is the greatest, and I'm just as insubordinate-hates-authority as you, if not more so
01:09 <spidey> i'm willing to bet $30 it's the power supply
01:09 <spidey> "stfu what do yuo know
01:09 <spidey> xD
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> damn kid
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:10 <spidey> :p
01:10 <spidey> since then peoples problems are theres
01:11 <spidey> was thinking about going to ITT when i get my GED
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> "Do you want to make more money?  Of course, we all doooo."  I hate those commercials.
01:14  * Lucifer_arma isn't impressed with ITT, to be honest.
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> you might be better off getting the same traiing from a community college, but it'll take longer.  Up to you, it's your life, after all, but ITT just strikes me as another "get rich quick" scheme,
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> or at least they play on the same impulses that drives get-rich-quick schemes
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> but in the real world, I've never encountered an ITT person or a job that dealt with such applicants, so I don't know what their chances are for real
01:15 <spidey> really i don't need it,but a certifacate saying i got training in that field would be better for tat kind of job :s
01:16  * Lucifer_arma likes freelance work in part because nobody asks to see his nonexistant CS degree
01:16 <spidey> remind me
01:16 <spidey> next time i get $10 to get a keyboard and mouse that DON'T have a short
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  give them that much for free, then take $45/hour to fix their real problem :)
01:17 <spidey> no...i ment my real problem
01:17 <spidey> heh
01:18 <spidey> the mouse and keyboard have a short in the wire
01:18 <spidey> have to wiggle the wire for them to work
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> wireless is sooo cool
01:18 <spidey> heh
01:18 <spidey> then again,it might not be either of them
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> somebody tell me what my now-missing 6th systray icon was so I can restart that application
01:19 <spidey> hahah
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> I see IM, email, and IRC, and the two I generally don't look at
01:20 <spidey> i only have 2 systray icons
01:20 <spidey> network monitor and the speaker
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> speaker, that's it
01:20 <spidey> lmfao
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> it was kmix, which I don't have running all the time
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> thanks, I don't need to restart it :)
01:20 <spidey> heh
01:21 <spidey> i don't get this
01:21 <spidey> the mouse don't work
01:21 <spidey> but everytime i look at the screen the little arrow has moved 
01:21  * Lucifer_arma whistles the Twilight Zone song
01:21 <spidey> hahah
01:21 <spidey> the aliens abducted my pointer
01:21 <spidey> :s
01:22 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:23 <spidey> yay
01:23 <spidey> another documentry is done downloading
01:23 <spidey> one that was banned 
01:25 <spidey> conspiracy of silence
01:25 <spidey> congress had it banned
01:25 <spidey> shitty quality
01:26 <spidey> i want a dual core video card
01:26 <spidey> whenever they come out
02:01 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-195-208.pskn.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
02:08 <guru3> fun fun work time
02:14 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: did you branch for 0.3.0? I don't know how long the Windows repais will take. I don't want to rush them.
02:15 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I fixed the GetUserName() problem the right way for both cross compilation and native compilation; <windows.h> is now included in defs.h, which every file we have includes first. That way, the #define GetUserName GetUserNameA is active everywhere.
02:32 -!- Weng [i=Weng@59-126-35-18.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #armagetron
02:33 -!- Weng [i=Weng@59-126-35-18.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> no, I haven't branched yet, doing calc homework :(
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> test this weekend
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> also, my kubuntu partition blew up on me :(
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: ping :)
02:36 <z-man> ok
02:37 <z-man> Plan? Shall I slowly try to get the Windows build working properly? It seems some things should rather be done on "make dist" than in the zip source preparation.
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, hmmmmmm
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> it seems like maybe we're not ready to release 0.3.0 after all :)
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> besides me, do you have any idea how many other people might be waiting for 0.3.0 before tearing up the trunk some more?
02:47 <Luke-Jr> you know, we could just go back and branch before the windows changes started...
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> there's an interesting idea
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's the cia url again?  I lost it in my browser history when my Kubuntu partition blew up...
02:47 <Luke-Jr> aabeta has a link
02:48 <Luke-Jr> ViewVC makes it easy
02:49 <z-man> Problem is, the Windows build wasn't working properly before Joda's rearrangements either.
02:49 <z-man> The nsis install scripts ignored the new sound stuff and the font.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  I'm seeing some fairly important stuff afterwards that we really should catch anyway
02:50 <z-man> I think I almost have the version.h file joda generates from SVN reproduced
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> 3 choices.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> branch so people can tear up the trunk again
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> not branch and keep going as we are, try to get windows building by the end of the week or early next week, even late next week
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> hold off 0.3.0
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> my gut tells me the best choice is the third one, hold off 0.3.0 a couple more weeks
02:52 <z-man> What has that for implications for people tearing up the trunk?
02:52 <z-man> Should they be allowed to do it then?
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure anybody's waiting to tear up the trunk anyway, and the windows build keeps being "it'll be ready in a few hours", and I think that's going to keep going
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, of course.  if we hold off 0.3.0, tear it up again.
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> That's contingent on my suspicion that nobody besides me is waiting to do that thing, and I've got this test so I'm not going to tear it up anyway in the next week or so
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> what do you guys think?
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a little voice in my head saying we shoudl get the cross-compiler thing going pretty quickly.  We have a severe shortage of regular windows developers, and cross-compiling is the thing that lets some of us update the windows build without having windows
02:54 <z-man> I've got lots of pending merges from 0.2.8 that are a tiny bit dangerous
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> what's the worst case they might impact the trunk?
02:55 <z-man> Hard to say. They're on permanent test on Fortress, so I don't expect desasters...
02:55 <z-man> but you guys have mainly been messing with graphics and sound, not the core game code.
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> so worst case is we get weird behavior/random crashes for a few weeks while you track it down?
02:56 <z-man> So whatever you do, you didn't break the game. The merged changed could do that.
02:56 <z-man> Yes, that kind of stuff.
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> ok, if we hold off 0.3.0, then that sounds pretty acceptable :)
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> assuming that really is the worst case...
02:57  * Lucifer_arma wonders how he can put together a Riemann Sum to determine the worst case
02:57 <z-man> Yeah, the real worst case can always be worse than the imagined worst case
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> ok, 4th choice
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> :)
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> branch anyway with the current revision and work out the windows thing there
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> then you can tear up the trunk with your merge from 0.2.8, and if it breaks it, fine, we release from the branch
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> if not, even better, we release from the trunk :)
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> maybe that's just crazy talk, though
02:59 <z-man> No, sounds good.
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok, let's do that then.  I'll do the branch tomorrow afternoon my time, It's pretty late and I still need to do a couple more problems before I go to bed
03:00 <z-man> Just let me commit what I think is a reasonably good shot at fixing the Windows build to the trunk ;)
03:00 <z-man> Ok
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> and if your reasonably good shot at fixing windows works, you know what to do :)
03:01 <z-man> Yes, I'll simply push the build up to aabeta.
03:02 <z-man> It'll still be tagged _alphasomething
03:02 <Lucifer_arma> do we have a flare gun or something we can use to get the QA guys' attention?
03:02 <z-man> We can tag and do a proper release later.
03:02 <z-man> Post on the forum?
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking more like a very large megaphone
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I've got a minor calc question that's curiosity more than anything, if you've got a minute for it
03:04 <z-man> of course
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> so, volume of a cone, right?  In class we derived the formula we all know and love by chopping it up into circles, from the side
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> I was wondering if there's a method that works from the top, where you chop it into triangles, and then rotate the triangles
03:06 <z-man> A cone with circular base?
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> yes
03:06 <z-man> and it's top is pointing to the side?
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, maybe I'd need to see your drawing?  What we did in class,
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> you point it any way you want, but we looked at it from the side and chopped into rectangles, from the side they were rectangles
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> so the volume of a cylinder, stick it in a Riemann Sum, then make your integral from that
03:08 <z-man> Ah, ok, now I understand your "from the side"
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> so the tip points up/down/left/right
03:08 <z-man> The cut planes are parallel to the ground circle.
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> so I was wanting to make triangles instead, and then you look from the top
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, that's what we did in class.  :)
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> but if you do it from the top, you basically do the solid of revolution trick with the triangles and rotate half a twist to get the whole cone
03:09 <z-man> If your chop planes are parallel (all perpendicular to the ground circle), your cuts will be parabulas, not triangles.
03:10 <z-man> Ah, ok, so your chop planes all go through the center axis of the cone?
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, instead of stacking them side by side.  Ahh, that's the part, don't stack side by side
03:10 <z-man> That works.
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's it
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> so is that a useful tactic?
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, I have this thing about using trig.  :)  Even if it's just area of a triangle...
03:11 <z-man> Depends :) The small bodies you chop it up to aren't flat triangles, so their volume is as hard co calculate as that of the whole cone.
03:12 <z-man> They're thicker on the outside, so those parts get a bigger weight in the volume.
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, we've been ignoring that, because when you put it together as an integral, their thickness goes to 0
03:13 <z-man> That only works as long as the thickness is uniform.
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> at least, when you're just stacking bits next to each other it works that way
03:13 <z-man> It works for the slicing to circles, because they're parallel, but not for your triangles.
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I think I get it.  Thanks.  :)
03:16 <z-man> You're welcome
03:28 <z-man> Got a working build!
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> yippeee!
03:28 <z-man> Upload to aabeta is running.
03:32 <z-man> Can take a while, the installer is now 5 MB big...
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  wht's in it?
03:32 <z-man> Music?
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better check sizes for that stuff, I thought I was only coming in around 700k for all of it
03:33 <z-man> FTGL and FreeType take the other MB.
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> oh, aha.
03:33 <z-man> The whole music directory is 1.8 MB
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's quite a bit more than 700k :)
03:34 <z-man> An unused file?
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> two of the 4 files are currently unused, actually
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> fortresswalk.ogg and doiknowyou.ogg
03:35 <z-man> But we're going to tell people how to add them to their playlist, right?
03:35 <z-man> So the space is not totally wasted?
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> of course.  :)  Except that the songs aren't really worth listening to in the playlist as implemented
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> they're intended to be looped, and the playlist doesn't handle looping songs right now is the problem
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> Making post-install adaptions.
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> Found shared files with other packages:
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/group: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/gshadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/passwd: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> !> etc/shadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's the exact error the t2 package is having
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> --disable-sysinstall is in configure, I think
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I need to move towards bed, just thought I'd toss that at you
03:39 <z-man> Yeah, so I can torture my head thinking about what may go wrong while you sleep, that fits ;)
03:41 <z-man> Good night, I'm off too.
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06:10 <wrtlprnft> #echo [morning][uptime]
06:10 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune:  Hear about the young Chinese woman who just won the lottery? || One fortunate cookie... spidey: 13:10:43 up 52 days, 13:15, 4 users, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
06:11 <spidey>  07:11:38 up 13 days, 14:27,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
06:11 <wrtlprnft> :P
06:18 <wrtlprnft> guru3: BUG! try answering to z-man's "different turn delays for 180s and adjusts" thread, it complains your topic is too long
06:21  * spidey yawns
06:25 <wrtlprnft> uh, BF fortress is empty?
06:25 <wrtlprnft> looks like people don't like my test :(
06:25 <spidey> ?
06:26 <spidey> which test
06:27 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4571
06:27 <spidey> i can't click that.....
06:27 <wrtlprnft> woooooo! google earth is available for linux!
06:27 <wrtlprnft> spidey: test servers forum
06:28 <wrtlprnft> the topmost thread there
06:28 <spidey> i still can't click it
06:28 <wrtlprnft> you can go onto the armagetronad forums, right?
06:28 <wrtlprnft> what about copy and paste anyways? That's what i do
06:28 <spidey> if i could figure out how to open the menu yea
06:29 <wrtlprnft> ?
06:29 <spidey> i don't have a mouse dude.....
06:29 <wrtlprnft> screen!
06:29 <wrtlprnft> use screen and irssi
06:29 <spidey> -_-
06:29 <wrtlprnft> and don't tell me you can't use your browser without a mouse
06:29  * wrtlprnft never uses the mouse for browsing
06:30 <spidey> i can't open it without one.....
06:30 <spidey> cause i don't know how to open the kmenu
06:30 <wrtlprnft> windoze key?
06:30 <spidey> don't wrk
06:30 <spidey> work
06:30 <wrtlprnft> konqueror on the command line?
06:30 <spidey> ..........
06:31 <spidey> i can't open the menu to get to the terminal
06:31 <wrtlprnft> or use opera, it has excellent keyboard navigation
06:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, CTRL-ALT-F1?
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06:34 <spider__> thanks....
06:35 <wrtlprnft> ?
06:35 <spider__> that closed X now my keyboard don't work
06:35 <wrtlprnft> ?!
06:35 <wrtlprnft> how are you typing?
06:35 <spider__> windows
06:35 <wrtlprnft> oh
06:35 <spider__> EXEC	The system cannot find the file specified.
06:36 <spider__> EXEC	The system cannot find the file specified.
06:36 <spider__> hmm
06:36 <wrtlprnft> ????
06:36 <spider__> growl
06:36 <spider__> :<
06:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, alt-f7 doesn't work?
06:36 <spider__> i don't know,i can't start x again :|
06:36 <wrtlprnft> do you have an ssh server on that machine?
06:36 <spider__> yea
06:37 <wrtlprnft> and the reboot button is your friend
06:37 <wrtlprnft> then connect to that
06:37 <spider__> :|
06:38 <spider__> spidey@3[~]$ uptime
06:38 <spider__>  07:38:41 up 13 days, 14:54,  2 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.10, 0.03
06:38 <wrtlprnft> well, there
06:38 <wrtlprnft> you go
06:38 <wrtlprnft> restart x11
06:38 <wrtlprnft> and to start a grapthical program:
06:38 <wrtlprnft> export DISPLAY=:0
06:38 <wrtlprnft> xterm
--- Log opened Tue Jun 13 06:42:13 2006
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06:42 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 17 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
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06:42 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
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06:45 <Joni> Hi
06:47 <wrtlprnft_> grr, google earth crashed on me
06:48 <spidey> good! :(
06:48 <spidey>  06:48:13 up 5 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.04, 0.36, 0.22
06:49 <wrtlprnft_> #uptime
06:49 <armabot> spidey: 13:48:58 up 52 days, 13:54, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
06:49 <wrtlprnft_> that's another machine :P
06:49 <spidey> ::<
06:50 <spidey> yes that smiley wears glasses
06:50 <wrtlprnft_> 8-)
06:52 <wrtlprnft_> !BF fortress is still empty!
06:52  * spidey is going back to bed for 3 hours
06:53 <Joni> lol
06:54 <spidey> i gotta go test on this book for the third damn time :|
06:54 <spidey> yes that means i failed it twice
06:54 <spidey> before that i only fail one test,but i retook it and made a 98
06:55 <spidey> i've never failed a test twice in a row :/
06:55 <spidey> anywho cya in 3 hours,then in 2-4 hours
06:55 <spidey> bbl
06:55 <Joni> cyaz
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09:31 <spidey> 4
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09:54 <z-man> #later tell guru3 the download links on the website still point to, any chance of getting them updated some time?
09:54 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
09:58 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["leaving"]
09:58 <spidey> i love you
09:59 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
09:59 <spidey> but i love vanhayes more
10:00 <Vanhayes> more than what?
10:01 <spidey> more than z-man
10:01 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
10:01 <Vanhayes> Should I be flattered, or creeped out?
10:01 <spidey> dunno?
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10:06 <Vanhayes> I'll be creeped out
10:09 <spidey> gay
10:47 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-197-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
10:47 <madmax|pt> hello
10:47 <Vanhayes> hey max
10:48  * madmax|pt really loves the cries of double/triple binders
10:49 <madmax|pt> :D
10:52  * spidey really likes killing zop when he double binds
10:55 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:56 <madmax|pt> hehe
10:58  * madmax|pt is away: brb
11:14  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:16:08)
11:44 <cusco> olha um madmax
12:04 <madmax|pt> ...
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12:20 <madmax|pt> any1 here ran the OSX binary of .3 successfully?
12:37 <Luke-Jr> *what* .3?
12:38 <joda_bot> madmax|pt: no I did not try
12:40 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: I guess he's talking about the alpha development build
12:41 <Luke-Jr> aha, need to unfilter branch
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12:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you do know k is working on an automated daily Win build?
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> yes
12:57 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: got any contact from k ?
13:01 <madmax|pt> sorry, yes, the alpha development build
13:01 <dlh```> madmax|pt: I did :D
13:02 <madmax|pt> crap
13:02 <madmax|pt> my doesnt run
13:02 <madmax|pt> *mine
13:02 <dlh```> Except I built it. I'm rebuilding. Hang around so you can test it.
13:02 <madmax|pt> (its hard to keep track of typos on 2 different languages)
13:02 <madmax|pt> ok dlh
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: k chimed in in the 0.3 thread, anyway, to talk about the windows build.  He's still getting up to speed.
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> Methinks K will always be "getting up to speed"  :)
13:24 <Luke-Jr> maybe the new code resulted in a defective light cycle for him?
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, if that's a joke, I don't get it, Luke-Jr, sorry.  If it's not, I don't get the context either.  Of course, I just got here anyway.
13:33 <dlh```> madmax|pt: http://generalconsumption.org/armagetron/builds/Armagetron Advanced.zip
13:37 <madmax|pt> i'll try it
13:37 <spidey> HOMIES
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> what up dog?
13:38 <madmax|pt> it works :D
13:39 <madmax|pt> thanks dlh```
13:39 <dlh```> alright, good
13:39 <spidey> i finally passed that test
13:39 <spidey> my score is what's up xD
13:39 <spidey> but i don't understand how i got a half point
13:39 <spidey> i made a 94.5
13:39 <spidey> nothing on that test was worth a half point....
13:40 <dlh```> You should ask the teacher to just give you a 94 then.
13:40 <spidey> lol
13:41 <spidey> hey by the grade scale they use
13:41 <spidey> a 94 is a A-
13:46 <madmax|pt> test of what?
13:47 <Vanhayes> exams spidey?
13:48 <spidey> i don't have exams
13:48 <spidey> i'm homeschooled
13:48 <spidey> it was a spelling/litature test
13:49 <spidey> they call it word building
13:51 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
13:51 <Niii> hey
13:52 <madmax|pt> hello
13:52 <spidey> wasps don't like axe
13:53 <dlh```> madmax|pt: be sure you don't turn on sound. The game will probably crash if you do.
13:53 <spidey> i sprayed it and it flew off
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> any idea why sdl_mixer is so unstable on OS X?
13:53 <spidey> mac sucks?
13:53 <madmax|pt> lol
13:54 <dlh```> One bug is in a library they use. It is easily fixed.
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> smpeg?
13:54 <dlh```> No, trin.. something
13:54  * Lucifer_arma really hopes its smpeg
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> what's it used for?
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> wait, timidity?
13:54 <dlh```> Timidity
13:54 <dlh```> yea
13:54 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
13:55 <madmax|pt> hey G5
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> any objections to me using that as an excuse not to support midi?  ;)
13:55 <madmax|pt> dlh, the link is still working?
13:55 <dlh```> Use beta.armagetronad.net
13:55 <dlh```> it is there now
13:55 <madmax|pt> oh ok
13:55 <madmax|pt> its for G5...
13:56 <spidey> people think i'm too old for star wars :(
13:56 <G5_Ger> Is it a new release?
13:56 <dlh```> yes, it should work now.
13:56 <dlh```> still the same problem with sound...
13:56 <G5_Ger> Ok, dl/ing
13:57 <G5_Ger> 25 kb/s ... is it my isp?
13:58 <madmax|pt> was slow for me too
13:58 <madmax|pt> btw, by turning on sound you mean: SysSetup > Sound Settings > Sound Quality: Off/Low-Medium-High ?
13:59 <dlh```> Yes, just turn down all those... we don't have a logical "Sound on/off" setting.
13:59 <G5_Ger> Did anyone see a G5's liquid cooling system leak? It was on the news today ... I'm worried ...
13:59 <madmax|pt> i never used sound in tron though
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> dlh```: there's a define for disabling even compiling sound, it works in Linux anyway
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> or did before I started shuffling things around again
14:00 <madmax|pt> but if i put it to other than Off in there, it doesnt crash
14:00 <madmax|pt> at least for now...
14:00 <dlh```> it will crash on startup
14:01 <madmax|pt> oh
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> that config item is only evaluated once during startup, the old behavior where you could change the setting and have it go into effect right away is gone for now
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> but it'll return :)
14:02 <G5_Ger> Ok, 0.3 running (with sound)
14:03 <G5_Ger> Ok, only startup sound
14:04 <dlh```> I disabled loading the sound files because it took forever on my computer.
14:06 <madmax|pt> the text system is much better, i can now have nicks like "I AM MAD?"
14:06 <madmax|pt> the "?" didnt appear right
14:06 <madmax|pt> hehe
14:08 <spidey> hhahaha
14:08 <spidey> this new experiment is kinda cool
14:09 <G5_Ger> The little map is upside down ...
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> what, the origin on the map is in the upper-left now?
14:09 <spidey> no
14:09 <spidey> you can't double grind now
14:09 <spidey> no matter what
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> yay!
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> that can only be good!
14:10 <spidey> quick binds have a delay
14:10 <spidey> o if you doublebind back
14:10 <spidey> you just turn once
14:10 <G5_Ger> I was gold and gold fortress was on top. I would have excepted it to be on bottom
14:10 <dlh```> It would be nice if the map was orientated with your driving direction.
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, the map's not upside down, you just got spawned at the top zone  :)
14:11 <G5_Ger> i see
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I looked into zooming the map and having it fix on your position, but didn't actually do any coding on it
14:11 <G5_Ger> did u do something to input handling? feels a lot better and faster.
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> it looks like we can use glOrtho to limit the view so we don't have to deal with cutting off the lines at the edge
14:12 <spidey> wait
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> then zooming is just a matter of working in a zoom factor somehow
14:12 <spidey> you can still doublegrind
14:12 <spidey> just use singlebind
14:12 <spidey> real fast
14:12 <spidey> i just did it
14:12 <Vanhayes> `thats how most people do it
14:13 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, spidey just figured out the cycle_delay code was for doublebinders
14:13 <madmax|pt> the 1st times i doublegrinded i did it with singlebind...
14:13 <spidey> heh
14:13 <spidey> i use doublebinds
14:13 <spidey> unless i wanna cut deapers
14:13 <spidey> deeper*
14:13 <dlh```> armagetronad://
14:14 <dlh```> that doesn't work on windows yet, right?
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> not that I know of
14:14 <G5_Ger> Cool
14:15 <spidey> i don't really care if people doublegrind,unless it's zop
14:15 <spidey> then i kill him
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and in linux it only works in KDE if you're lucky :)
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I don't mind doublegrinders, generally speaking.  It's when they get pissy about how they're going to do it and fuck the rest of the team no matter what,
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and then get pissy about how I should do it
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> and since that's most of the time, it's annoying as hell
14:16 <spidey> yes
14:16 <spidey> zop did that to me
14:16 <G5_Ger> what is this red/green bar in the right middle?
14:16 <spidey> so now i kill him
14:16 <Vanhayes> that isnt thbrakes g5?
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> brake, isn't it?
14:17 <G5_Ger> No, brakes on the bottom ...
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> there are a few doublegrinders I always kill, and a few I always let live
14:17 <dlh```> the upper-right, you mean?
14:17 <Vanhayes> FPS
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> that would be fps, wouldn't it?
14:17 <G5_Ger> yeah ... more vertical center (right)
14:18 <G5_Ger> ok
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> you're using the default cockpit, right?
14:18 <Vanhayes> So the glances turnleft, then left again, then left again if u press them fast enough?
14:18 <G5_Ger> yes
14:18 <Vanhayes> it gets confusing
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> try this:
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: yes, and they're relative to your view
14:18 <G5_Ger> i just clicked the link 
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> make sure you bind a glance front, it centers the view to your cycle's front
14:19 <G5_Ger> i just clicked your link while i was in bugfarm ... then the new world was fucked up ...
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> also, if you know after you turn that you want to be looking in the direction you were going before the turn, press glance front before you turn and hold it :)
14:19 <dlh```> G5_Ger: yea, it gets messed up when you use the armagetronad:// links and are already playing the game
14:20 <spidey> yea
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> I've also found I don't glance back anymore, I just glance left twice
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> it grows on you :)
14:21 <dlh```> I've been using it for awhile, and I still prefer the old custom camera
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> I like the input handling for it, but I'd like to see camera defined by a resource anyway
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> and the resource format would include the primitives that make up both the old kind and the new kind, and whatever else came out of rewriting it to work that way
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> but then you'd define which camera resource to use for which slot, and the existing camera views would become slots, and maybe we'd add a couple more that make sense to add
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> if I ran the zoo, that's just what I'd do :)
14:26 -!- Nixda710 [n=593444cf@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:27 <G5_Ger> I miss the sound :)
14:27 -!- Nixda710 [n=593444cf@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has left #armagetron []
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> anybody try my cockpit yet?  ;)
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> also, try incam, the new default cockpit has a different layout for incam
14:29 <madmax|pt> incam is nice
14:29  * Lucifer_arma should put this "try this out" on the wiki
14:30 <madmax|pt> in console? -> COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> yes
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> it *should* load, but you may need to restart it
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> cockpit_file gets saved like you'd expect
14:32 <madmax|pt> it gets in the sight
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> you'd have to try it for awhile, it does occasionally block the view, but I find that on the whole it's better, at least for me
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> because I don't have to move my eyes very far to see it, and I can ignore it when I don't want to see it
14:32 <madmax|pt> its the new from the incam too right?
14:32 <madmax|pt> * the one
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> I admit, it makes more sense as an incam cockpit
14:33 <G5_Ger> ur cockpit isnt that sick ...
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> umm, the incam cockpit is derived from my personal cockpit
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> I added the gauges people expect, and captions
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's stuff I don't like wasting my own screen space on, but people expect it to be there
14:33 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:33 <Vanhayes> what are the meters on the right?
14:34  * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man-home 
14:34 <Lucifer_arma> the top one is speed, bottom is accelration
14:34 <madmax|pt> sooooo... whats the default one then...
14:34 <madmax|pt> so i can load it back
14:34 <madmax|pt> lol
14:34  * z-man-home is watching brazil vs croatia
14:34 <z-man-home> (quite boring up to now)
14:35 <[Xpert]DarkStar> anyone watched switzerland vs france?
14:35 <MaZuffeR> yes
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> was it interesting?
14:36 <MaZuffeR> the first half was quite boring, a bit better in the second half
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hmm
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml  <-- something like this?
14:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good that i haven't watched it then
14:37 <MaZuffeR> Frei tried to score with his hand
14:37 <madmax|pt> yeah, i was looking in the folders
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_: default cockpit file isn't in default.cfg!
14:37 <madmax|pt> looks like theres the classic one there
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> see?  we already found one bug :)
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> ok, the one I gave is the default
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the classic one is supposed to be the same as the old one, I don't know if it ctually is or not, but it should give the old hud back
14:39 <madmax|pt> it does
14:39 <madmax|pt> i tried it
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the standard one is the one we'll be developing incrementally to be the best freaking default cockpit we can put together
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> the difference between standard and classic is that standard can change between releases.  :)  Classic is for the people who don't like change.
14:40 <madmax|pt> yep
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> personally I've grown quite attached to my cockpit, and with a few changes to the map I might finally be able to switch to incam as my primary camera :)
14:42 <Vanhayes> hmm what happened to the HUD option that was in system set-up, is it gone or can I just not find it?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> probably gone for now, we're still trying to figure out how to make hud options like what you used to see
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> the hud is totally different under the hood now
14:43 <madmax|pt> did you guys ever thought of name highlighting in the chat? like when people say our name it makes some tag or changes the text colour
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't mind slinging some xml, here's all about the cockpit:
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Cockpit_Tutorial
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> madmax|pt: I've thouht about it, but most of the neato chat stuff we're getting is from nemo and wrtlprnft
14:45 <madmax|pt> ok
14:45 <madmax|pt> but that would be useful sometimes :)
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> many times :)
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> can't be that hard, just do a substring in the same place where we place the *DEAD* string, search for your name, and if it's there, change the color of the line
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> I'd also like the option to strip colors from other people's chats.  When people go and start talking in green or light blue as their colors, I have a hard time seeing it, so tend to ignore them
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> but it would be neat if we could work out a way to make that work, and then have people's cycle colors figured into the color of their chats
14:49 <madmax|pt> i agree on the "strip colors from other people's chats"
14:49 <madmax|pt> i find that quite useful in MSN
14:49 <madmax|pt> there are people with some strange colors... and fonts
14:51 <madmax|pt> btw, the colour in our nick that we define in player setup isnt supposed to be the same as in the score board?
14:52 <G5_Ger> Does 0.3 version have no sound or is it a problem with the Mac version?
14:52 <Vanhayes> Windows has sound, but it is very annoying
14:54 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> problem with the mac version
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> also, the cycle sound is on vacation
14:55 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
14:55 <MaZuffeR> the cycle sound is pretty much the only useful one imho
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> we'll get it back, don't worry.  There's a new zone spawn sound, though, that I haen't heard in a while because I play with music
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> and the announcer's annoying without music, but I can deal with him with music :)
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> but that damn whistle is getting annoying.  I don't know what possessed me to use a whistle for "Go!"
14:57 <madmax|pt> any1 read my question?
14:57 <madmax|pt> lol
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I read it, I'm not sure if I know the answer though
14:57 <madmax|pt> ok then
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> I think the answer is "no", the color in the scoreboard is supposed to be the color of your cycle, which is different in teams, of course
14:58 <madmax|pt> hmm, the colour of my cycle isnt the one in the scoreboard, im in spec mode @ bugFort
14:58 <Lucifer_arma> also, I don't know if we'll change the music under the GUI, people that have used it so far have liked it, but the music the game starts with is just trash I threw together to have something to test the code with
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> being in spec mode might change that, too.  You don't have a cycle when you're a spectator, do you?
15:01 <madmax|pt> well, but the color in the scoreboard is neither the cycle or the one i defined with color codes in the name
15:02 <madmax|pt> dinner time
15:02 <madmax|pt> bbl
15:02  * madmax|pt is away: Dinner
15:19  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:17:03)
15:21 <madmax|pt> color = american english / colour = british english , right?
15:21 <G5_Ger> yep
15:22 <G5_Ger> it is hard for me to play without game sounds ...
15:22 <madmax|pt> o_O
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's right madmax|pt 
15:23 <G5_Ger> Im used to hear other players drive and die
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is a development release we're working on.  If you need the stuff that's in the stable release badly, you should run that instead.  :)
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> Running the development release implies a certain acceptance on your part that things won't always be wonderful.
15:23 <madmax|pt> you use the sound to know if people died?
15:23 <G5_Ger> No, this is no complaint. Im happy with 0.3
15:24 <G5_Ger> Yes. It helps (me)
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I used to do that, so I can relate, but I really watch for names in the console now because I track living cycles the same way I count cards in Spades :)
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the new sound engine when it's finished will have either the same old stereo sound it's always had, multichannel sound with sdl_mixer (probably disabled for you), or full 3d sound with OpenAL.
15:25 <madmax|pt> i never used sound, so i'm a quite intrigued on how people "use" it
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'm rearranging the sound stuff to make each of those options both compile-time options and runtime config options,
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B81BE.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> so we could release a binary with all three compiled in and let the user pick which one to use.
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that we will release such a binary, we need to provide a stable target for people that make music and sound effects, I'd just like to have the option available.
15:26 <G5_Ger> Sounds great. Im looking forward to see the result. Thx for all your time.
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> the compile-time config is to reduce the dependency load to a tolerable level for people building from source.  :)  so they can pick how many dependencies they'll tolerate for sound, if any.
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BB425.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> you'll love full 3d sound.  :)  OpenAL supports doppler-shifting sounds, so when you speed past a cycle you'll hear the doppler effect on it.
15:44 <spidey> meh
15:44 <spidey> changed my monitors/keyboards around
15:44 <spidey> i'ma start playing tron on this computer
15:45 <[NP]Tangent> whoa
15:45 <[NP]Tangent> you're making full 3d sound?
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> eventually, yes
15:49 <[NP]Tangent> sweet
15:50 <spidey> llucifer
15:50  * [NP]Tangent puts Buy 6.1 speakers on this year's todo list
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> but you'll have to be patient.  :)  There are so many steps along the way to an OpenAL sound backend...
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I've alredy made two attempts and found the amount of work to be quite intimidating.  So I've reworked my plan into more baby steps.
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> I'll be patient
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> :>
15:50  * MaZuffeR already has 5.1 speakers
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> slow but steady wins the race
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> We're stuck with SDL and SDL_mixer for awhile, but you should see enough improvement there to satisfy you :)
15:50 <[NP]Tangent> I have 2.1 speakers
15:51  * spidey has a stereo :>
15:51  * Lucifer_arma uses headphones
15:51 <spidey> that plays what the computer does :>
15:51 <[NP]Tangent> I usually use headphones though
15:51 <[NP]Tangent> I want some surround sound though
15:51 <spidey> i don't,i get introuble cause it's too loud xD
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> there's some surround sound in the new version, but I forgot the config item for it.
15:52 <spidey> derrrr
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> When the alpha's done with QA, or next week, whichever happens first, I'll write up the changes in 0.3.0 on the wiki with a list of try-mes :)
15:52 <spidey> hmm,lots of people must be downloading tron,i'm getting 11kb/s :s
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> but the surround sound in the new version isn't full 3d sound
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's just fake 3d sound.   sounds happen approximately where they should happen and that's it.  Some amplitude, but that's it.
15:53  * Lucifer_arma thinks the config item for that is in the sound menu
15:53  * spidey doesn't use sound in tron anyways :p
15:53  * madmax|pt hates blood sucking, annoying, not-that-funny looking bugs
15:53 <spidey> even if i did,the music would drown it out :/
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, my music drowns it out.  It's part of my goal that that shouldn't happen, though.
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> if you use the music that's available in-game, that is.  If you use your own cd player or whatever, it's your problem.  :)
15:54 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:54 <spidey> hmm
15:54 <spidey> well
15:54 <spidey> nvm,lol
15:55 <Vanhayes> what is the point of toggle brake?
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> so you can be a wuss without anyone knowing?
15:55 <MaZuffeR> might be useful on speedbrakes servers
15:55  * Lucifer_arma hasn't bound that one
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, actually I bound brake to caps lock awhile back for race servers :)
15:56 <spidey> luci,should i download/install support code ?
15:56 <Vanhayes> but all it does is completely use brakes but doesnt refill
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: you have to to use autopackage
15:56 <spidey> i am
15:56 <spidey> it's asking if i should do it now
15:56 <spidey> Y/n
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: if you say "no", it shouldn't install :)
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> so say "yes" :)
15:56 <spidey> k
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, some servers don't have brakes used up anyway.  Did you play iF's race server?
15:57 <Vanhayes> I have yes
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> that was "hold the brake down all the time", which interfered with glances for me
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> so when I bound brake to caps lock, I could just toggle it once and have constant acceleration.
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's all the benefit I see to toggle brakes, anyway
15:57 <Vanhayes> but shouldnt it refill after it is depleted?
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> there are some maps on CT Fortress where it would be useful, the shrunk maps
15:57 <Lucifer_arma> some servers don't deplete, that's my point
15:58 <spidey> k,i can't see this when i'm playing now :/ bbl
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's useful if you want brake as soon as it refills, like for tight mazing (and you're a wuss)
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's useful when brakes don't deplete (and you're a wuss)
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> and it's useful when you need constant acceleration, like in a maze server (and you're not a wuss)
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> it might be useful in other situations too, that I haven't thought of.  I don't know, I didn't do it.  :)
15:59 <madmax|pt> sometimes chat overlaps the "time/framerate/Running For/Music" part of the HUD
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> always has, it's just that before that hud gauge was really small
16:00 <madmax|pt> hmm...
16:00 <madmax|pt> ok
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> you can setup a toggle for it, I suppose we should figure out toggles for the default gauges so you can turn them off
16:00 <Vanhayes> all of that doesnt even fit on my screen
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> umm, don't play so long?  ;)
16:00  * Lucifer_arma is aware of the problems with that particular gauge, but it's not a showstopper
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> think about it as an incentive to try making your own cockpit :)
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> see, dont look at the cockpit as "oh looky, we got new gauges".  Look at it as "oh looky, I can make it look however I want it to"
16:01 <Vanhayes> I mean all I see is time/fps/timesta and then it goes off my screem
16:01 <Vanhayes> screen*
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> wrtl has a cockpit in there too you can try if you want
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> do you have an aspect ratio that's not 4:3?
16:02  * madmax|pt now understands what "Keep Window Active" means
16:02 <G5_Ger> 24h clock is gone ...
16:03 <madmax|pt> its the american style
16:03 <madmax|pt> lol
16:03 <Vanhayes> I like it better now
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah
16:05 <madmax|pt> i like the text a lot, in the other versions it was all "blurry"
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> there's also /console in chat
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the change to truetype fonts :)
16:05 <madmax|pt> really cool
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think the font is fucking beautiful now :)
16:05 <madmax|pt> i agree on that!
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you can do "/console COCKPIT_FILE somefilepath" in chat and it'll do what youe xpect
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> this was somebody's request, I forgot who (might have been you, madmax|pt ), who wanted to have console comands in instant chats
16:06 <madmax|pt> not me
16:06 <Vanhayes> wow wrtl's HUD is .... big
16:06 <spidey> luci,which version is it with the minimap?
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> I forget, maybe it was gnorty, heh.  It was just one of those "Oh, that would be neat"
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: ?
16:07 <G5_Ger> g2g ... have a nice day!
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> you want 0.3.0_alphasomethingorother if you want the map
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> by G5_Ger, thanks for playing :)
16:07 <madmax|pt> my "that would be neat" is the name highlighting
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_: :)
16:07 <G5_Ger> my pleasure!
16:07 <G5_Ger> Bye!
16:07 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-152-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:07 <Vanhayes> cya
16:08 <spidey> mmm
16:08 <spidey> i get better fps on this computer
16:08 <madmax|pt> Van, is it worth to see? the cockpit?
16:08 <madmax|pt> lol
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft_ has some toggles for his hud, too, so you might try binding the hud togles and see what they do
16:09 <spidey> what's the walls client?
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> very old version?
16:09 <spidey> heh
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, the game was called walls a loooong time ago
16:09 <madmax|pt> jeez, cant change my color on the score table....
16:09  * Lucifer_arma hasn't noticed a problem with colors on the score table
16:10 <spidey> branch .3?
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> I've noticed that spectators seem to hae an arbitrary color, but assumed it was to make them stand out from real players
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, 0.3.0_alphaSOMENUMBER
16:10  * spidey don't see that
16:10 <spidey> just a .3 branch,so i'll assume that's it :p
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> are you on sourceforge, or beta.armagetronad.net?
16:11 <spidey> beta.arma
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the branch you want
16:11 <spidey> k,downloading
16:12 <Vanhayes> madmax | pt the cockpit is alright, just bigg
16:14  * Lucifer_arma notes that you could use /console to replace glances and use a custom cam if you wanted
16:14  * spidey likes the num pad glances
16:14 <spidey> 4 and 5
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> which ones are they?  ;)
16:14 <spidey> though they spin to fast,but i've gotten used to it
16:15 <Vanhayes> not fast in 0.3 i bet
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> you can change that, too.  Type "angular" into your console to see the setting
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know the units on angular velocity for the cam, I'd expect it to be radians/sec
16:17 <spidey> now i go play :)
16:18 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:23 <madmax|pt> the colors seem to work on the Sumo server, but not on Fortress
16:24  * madmax|pt gives up on that
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> colors?
16:25 <madmax|pt> colors in the score table
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> Vanhayes: go to global keyboard setup and bind cockpit key 1+2
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> and try them with my cockpit ;)
16:25 <wrtlprnft_> madmax|pt: what exactly is wrong? They don't appear at all?
16:26 <madmax|pt> the same appears all the time
16:26 <wrtlprnft_> screenshot?
16:26 <madmax|pt> im changing those with color codes in the player name
16:26 <wrtlprnft_> o_O I never tested that
16:27 <wrtlprnft_> you mean like wrt0xff0000l?
16:27 <wrtlprnft_> testing...
16:27 <madmax|pt> how are you *supposed* to change colors on your nick in the score table?
16:27 <madmax|pt> when in spec mode @ fortress
16:28 <wrtlprnft_> that might be a server bug tho
16:28 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:28 <wrtlprnft> you sure it only happens with the dev version?
16:28 <wrtlprnft> btw, try /console FONT_FILE font.ttf :)
16:29 <madmax|pt> not sure
16:29 <madmax|pt> wait
16:30 <madmax|pt> it happens on the other one too
16:30 <wrtlprnft> there you go
16:30 <madmax|pt> but how are you *supposed* to change colors on your nick in the score table?
16:30 <wrtlprnft> that should be your normal colors
16:30 <wrtlprnft> like, color_r_1 etc
16:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: that might be a bug for you
16:31 <madmax|pt> nope, i have no colors defined in the nick, but when i join i have a white background and blue normal color
16:32 <madmax|pt> that white back always appears
16:32 <wrtlprnft> hmm, weird
16:32 <wrtlprnft> maybe you're not supposed to change your colors?
16:32 <MaZuffeR> starting the game with internal cam and then switching to another cam causes you to have two cockpits on top of eachother :s
16:33 <madmax|pt> in the sumo server, the white background when i have no colors defined, but if i define one in the nick with codes it appears the code i defined
16:33 <madmax|pt> in fortress it always appears
16:35 <madmax|pt> ..hmmm... did you understand that?
16:35 <madmax|pt> lol
16:35 <MaZuffeR> colors codes in nicks are disable at bf fortress
16:35 <madmax|pt> :S but i still can't get that white background on my nick off
16:36 <madmax|pt> waaaait...
16:37 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-223-188.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
16:37 <spidey> i love it
16:38 <spidey> except i can't use it
16:38 <madmax|pt> omg.. is the code Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 supposed to give you a white background!?
16:38 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: I already had them bind, 1 turns off map, 2 darkens it?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:38 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: yes
16:38 <madmax|pt> it is?
16:38 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:38 <madmax|pt> holy crap
16:38 <madmax|pt> so thats it
16:38 <Vanhayes> ok
16:38 <wrtlprnft> that's a very dark blueish color
16:38 <Your_mom_arma> i just tried the .3 alpha and i get graphical glitches if i have high rim turned on
16:39 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: the darkening is for chico maps
16:39 <madmax|pt> i thought background couldnt be defined with the RGB.... :S
16:39 <wrtlprnft> so you can play just by hud map and ignore the 3d rendering
16:39 <wrtlprnft> madmax|pt: no it can't
16:39 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: screenshot?
16:39 <madmax|pt> ?... if i use Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 it gives that white background
16:39 <Your_mom_arma> i'll post something
16:40 <Vanhayes> too dark
16:40 <spidey> where's files like font/rim_wall/ect at :/
16:40 <wrtlprnft> all in textures
16:40 <wrtlprnft> for font, al, try typing FONT_FILE font.ttf :)
16:40 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ find textures
16:40 <spidey> find: textures: No such file or directory
16:41 <spidey> i'ma replace the fonts with the old one
16:41 <spidey> it kills my fps :/
16:41 <madmax|pt> wrtlprnft, if i use Red=0 Green=2 Blue=4 it gives that white background
16:41 <wrtlprnft> spidey: can't forever :P
16:41 <spidey> went from 70 to 28 :<
16:41 <spidey> huh?
16:41 <wrtlprnft> say font_file 0 if you REALLY want to
16:41 <spidey> k
16:41 <wrtlprnft> but it won't be there for long
16:41 <spidey> brb
16:41 <wrtlprnft> *say FONT_TYPE 0
16:41 <wrtlprnft> try others as well. FONT_TYPE 2 should be fast
16:42 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087447D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:43 <MaZuffeR> madmax|pt: all colors that are "too" dark has white background
16:43 <madmax|pt> ... glup ...
16:44 <madmax|pt> didnt know that
16:44 <madmax|pt> thanks MaZuffeR 
16:44 <MaZuffeR> np
16:44 <MaZuffeR> i think this: http://www.mazuffer.com/temp/screenshot_5.png isn't supposed to happen
16:45 <madmax|pt> someone was describing something like that a while ago
16:45 <wrtlprnft> you don't mean the floor color, right?
16:45 <MaZuffeR> nope
16:45 <wrtlprnft> definitely a bug
16:45 <wrtlprnft> can you make a recording that brings you into that state?
16:45 <MaZuffeR> just start with internal cam and switch to the next one
16:46 <Vanhayes> ya I posted same thing on forums
16:46 <Vanhayes> no SS tho
16:46 <madmax|pt> btw, wasnt "player setup" the first item on the ingame menu?
16:46 <Vanhayes> no it was always player police
16:47 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:47 <madmax|pt> :S i must be imagining things
16:47 <spidey> meh
16:48 <spidey> fps dropped when i changed it :/
16:48 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=59911#59911
16:49 <wrtlprnft> and this only happens with high rim?
16:49 <wrtlprnft> some opengl dude will probably have to take care of it
16:50 <Your_mom_arma> yeah its a wierd little bug
16:58 <wrtlprnft> z-man: uh, there's no such thing as an nSettingItemLine? I'd need that...
17:21 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Help_talk:Contents&curid=1355&diff=6381&oldid=1984&rcid=5391
17:21 <wrtlprnft> omg
17:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you shouldn't have talked like that a few days ago...
17:23 <Your_mom_arma> ?
17:25 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:25 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:25 -!- Nazurath is now known as Vanhayes
17:25 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: we talked about it a few days ago, I said I don't remember it anymore and it's over now and he said it could come back
17:25 <wrtlprnft> and now we have a spammer again
17:25 <wrtlprnft> hopefully it was a human
17:25 <Your_mom_arma> oh
17:41 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:47 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
17:49  * wrtlprnft is gonna look if he'll get kicked if he joins BF fortress
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> go in as gaymosexual and someone'll try to kick you
17:59 <spidey> lahl
18:00 <spidey> i lost my systray....
18:01 <spidey> i'm getting good at this name guessing thing
18:01 <spidey> SD was in earlier on a fake name xD
18:01 <spidey> beware,another month of this and i'll have esp!!
18:11 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> I thought you already had espn!
18:14 <Your_mom_arma> how do i make a cockpit bargauge variable display verticaly
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> orientation="vertical" ?
18:15 <spidey> lol
18:15 <spidey> krdp won't work :/
18:15 <Your_mom_arma> tried that and that gave me errors
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, it's not on the wiki page
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> check wrtlprnft's map file, it's in resource/included/wrtlprnft somewhere
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> he has vertical bar gauges on the left, iirc.
18:16 <Your_mom_arma> okay
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: you should change the language file for your server to say "$1 pwned $2 for $3 points"
18:17 <spidey> heh
18:17 <Your_mom_arma> haha
18:17 <spidey> actually
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> Or just add "Pwned!" to the end of it
18:18 <Your_mom_arma> <VerticalBarGauge camera="^in">
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:18 <spidey> seeing as i can't use krdp to remote my windows computer
18:18 <spidey> i'll work on my server
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> apparently we need to add another gauge onto the wiki :)
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> FORBID_COCKPIT_DATA player_rubber   <--- I'm gonna put that on my server
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> and then lock out clients too old to understand it :)
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> you'll have to hack your client to get a rubber gauge!  arrrrr
18:23 <Your_mom_arma> haha
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, I just figured out how to stop packet loss forever
18:32 -!- k [n=k_at_wor@65-113-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> k!  I just figured out how to prevent packet loss forever!
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> yay!
18:32  * Lucifer_arma is a badass
18:32 <Your_mom_arma> ?
18:32  * Lucifer_arma covers a grin
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> we use...get this....
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> are you ready for it??
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> WE SHOULD USE TCP INSTEAD OF UDP!!
18:33 <k> Hi Luci.  First time on IRC.  Be nice. :)
18:33 <Your_mom_arma> hey k
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok k.  It's not much different from ingame chat, though.  Just don't press "s" everytime you want to say something
18:33 <Vanhayes> lol
18:34  * Lucifer_arma ignores what using tcp would do to pings
18:34  * Lucifer_arma thinks ping is irrelevant anyway
18:35 <Lucifer_arma> ok, joke's over.  it wsn't as funny as I thought it was.
18:51 <Lucifer_arma>  <--- can someone try to custom connect to this ip address?  my client's dead right now...
18:53 <Your_mom_arma> connection failed
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, ok, thanks.
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> you don't live in Durka's house, do you?
18:53 <Your_mom_arma> i hope not
18:54 <Your_mom_arma> why did your firewall block me?
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> he says he's opened the firewall for arma, and his nat router, but the master server only gives an ip address and it's unreachable (as you saw)
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> this usually means the port isn't open
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> so we just gotta figure out where the port is closed and get it open :)
18:57 <MaZuffeR> maybe he opened it only for TCP?
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> I told him twice to open it for UDP...
18:58 <MaZuffeR> k
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> (it was that conversation that spawned my bad joke)
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> so maybe he opened it for only TCP anyway.  Heh.  He's not a dumb guy, though, and this isn't hard, but it's the same old problem.  If I'm not sitting there looking over his shoulder, I don't know what he actually did,
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> or what his options are.  :(
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> #quote add "And I hate dying nearly as much as I hate Vanhayes." --featherfcuk
19:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
19:02 <Vanhayes> er...
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #quote add "And I hate dying nearly as much as I hate Vanhayes." --featherfcuk
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.  Quote #17 added.
19:02 <Vanhayes> where did you get that?
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> sorry Vanhayes, that's worth saving :)
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> forums
19:02 <Vanhayes> lol
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #q
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #q
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #13: "<hang3r> How many microbuscity's does it take to change a light bulb?" (added by hang3r at 11:41 PM, March 30, 2006)
19:04  * Lucifer_arma wants armabot available ingame too
19:04 <Vanhayes> Is that possible?
19:04 <Lucifer_arma> not currently, not without much work.
19:04 <Vanhayes> and Don't you think that would be abused?
19:04 <Vanhayes> spamm and all
19:04 <Lucifer_arma> the way armabot gets abused here, you mean?
19:05 <spidey> haha
19:05 <Vanhayes> heh
19:05 <Vanhayes> #eliza Hello
19:05 <armabot> Vanhayes: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
19:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to say the possibility definitely exists, but supybot is a good bot and seems to be doing a good job of avoiding abuse
19:05 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, it's configurable enough that I'm pretty sure we can reduce bot queries quite a bit
19:06 <Lucifer_arma> give it ingame admin capabilities and the ability to retaliate for certain types of abuse and we can keep it manageable
19:06 <spidey> then we could trick idiots into getting banned
19:06 <spidey> sweet,i'm for it!
19:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the ones that don't fall for the shift-escape pranks
19:07 <spidey> hahaha
19:10 <Vanhayes> #fortune
19:10 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, || "Today I will be brilliant." || -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3
19:10 <Lucifer_arma> Kirk could never say he was brilliant
19:11 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=60101#60101
19:11 <spidey> can't click it
19:11 <spidey> hold on
19:12 <spidey> resend it when spidey|2 joins
19:12 <Lucifer_arma> FIX YOUR FUCKIN' MOUSE!
19:12 <spidey> i can't
19:12 <spidey> i gotta buy a new one
19:12 -!- spidey|2 [n=spider@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:12 <spidey|2> k send it
19:12 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=60101#60101
19:14 <spidey|2> API ?
19:14 <spidey|2> wouldn't that stop you from adding it to nix versions?
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's open source and made for linux, how would it stop us?
19:14 <spidey|2> linux doesn't support api calls.....
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> crackbaby
19:14 <spidey|2> ?
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> api = application programming interface
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> it's a concept, not an implementation
19:15 <spidey|2> oh,i thought it ment like the windows api calls :p
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, linux supports shared objects
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, Windows API is a specific API
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> :)
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> OpenGL is an API for 3d programming
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> etc
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> but api is basically fancy words for "how this part can be talked to"
19:16 <spidey|2> ye
19:16 <spidey|2> a
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> so it can be in a shared library, and the interface to it is called na api, but you also refer to parts of our own program as an api
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> like, the new sound engine I'm talking about, it exposes an API that the rest of the game can use to trigger sound effects
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> that's its purpose :)
19:17 <Lucifer_arma> when the game is built, though, this api is part of the binary, so it's not a shared library.  So API is conceptual in meaning and takes different forms in real life.
19:17 <spidey|2> well,like i said i don't know to much C,i'm reading on it but i really wouldn't know how
19:18 <spidey|2> i could probably edit SDK to do what you want,~maybe~
19:19 <spidey|2> but you'd have to implament it :p
19:19 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-197-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the reason I directed you to the post was to show you there is a linux library for uPnP.  :)
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> umm, Vanhayes: what's the screenshot supposed to show us?
19:20 <Vanhayes> it didnt work?
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> what didn't work?
19:20 <Vanhayes> can u see the SS?
19:20  * spidey|2 can't use the .3 build untill i get another GFX card
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it just looked like regular inbetween round scoreboard viewing
19:20 <spidey|2> eats the shit outta my fps :<
19:20 <Vanhayes> ? I never noticed that before
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> what?  What are you trying to call attention to?
19:21 <Vanhayes> it usually turns your colour?
19:21 <Vanhayes> my team is suposed to be gold
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> to match your team?
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, looks like your team is red and named Vananators
19:21 <Vanhayes> lol ya
19:21 <Vanhayes> actually its Dark orange
19:40 <Vanhayes> #i
19:41 <Vanhayes> #list alias
19:41 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, (1 more message)
19:41 <Vanhayes> #more
19:41 <armabot> Vanhayes: realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
19:42 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
19:42 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:43 <spidey|2> !?
19:43 <spidey|2> #,armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: No chance.
19:43 <spidey|2> #armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: It is possible.
19:43 <spidey|2> ?
19:43 <spidey|2> #help armabo
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: Error: There is no command "armabo".
19:43 <spidey|2> #help armabot
19:43 <armabot> spidey|2: (armabot <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "eightball $*".
19:44 <Vanhayes> #armabot,
19:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: You're kidding, right?
19:44 <Vanhayes> #insight
19:44 <armabot> Vanhayes: The phenomenal paradigm shifting of the Internet will escalate our future family values.
19:47 <spidey|2> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:47 <spidey|2> #help armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:47 <armabot> spidey|2: (armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\: <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "".
19:47 <spidey|2> heh
19:50 <Vanhayes> #armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:
19:50 -!- dlh``` [n=dlh```@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
19:52 <Vanhayes> #digg
19:52 <armabot> Vanhayes: Wine Doors opens Windows under Linux || U.S. Mad Cow Cases Result From Rare Strain || PS3 to support free online gaming, and Sony plans e-distribution service || TechEd 2006: Hybrid hard drives to become Vista Premium requirement || Report: High Schools Fail To Meet Needs Of Tech-Driven World || Free PHP and Oracle Manual is Available || Off-Grid Man Jailed For Confronting (5 more messages)
20:28 <Your_mom_arma> wow, center turned and tried to circle around me and tk me when i ran away he called me a (explative deleted) idiot noob
20:28 <Vanhayes> CT fort?
20:28 <Your_mom_arma> yeah dont tell me that was you
20:28 <Vanhayes> No but that is what it is like there usually
20:40 <spidey> heh
20:40 <spidey> was his about 13 minutes ago?
20:57 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-223-188.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
21:04 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AFD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:12 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:22 <Vanhayes> #fortune
21:22 <armabot> Random Fortune:  "What was the self-sacrifice? " || "I jettisoned half of a much loved and I think || irreplaceable pair of shoes. " || "Why was that self-sacrifice? " || "Because they were mine! " said Ford crossly. || "I think we have different value systems. " || "Well mine's better. " || "That's according to your... oh never mind. "
21:28 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
21:29 <Vanhayes> #good night
21:29 <Vanhayes> #night
21:29 <armabot> Good night Vanhayes!
21:30 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:41 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I managed to get half a mark on that sum question :)
21:43  * wrtlprnft is surprised k isn't used on freenode yet O_o
21:43 -!- You're now known as a
21:43 -!- You're now known as e
21:43 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
21:45 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man I propose we try each of the experimental changes again a while after is out to see if they work better with client support ;)
21:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:47 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:49 <spidey|2> anyone know any torrent sites :/
21:49 <spidey|2> thepiratebay.org got shutdown :<
21:52 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net
21:52 <wrtlprnft> knoppix torrent :P
21:52 <spidey|2> i can't read that,lol
21:53 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
21:53 <wrtlprnft> http://knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html to be exact
21:54 <wrtlprnft> there you have a torrent
21:54 <spidey|2> http://r.pm0.net/s/c?386.gj2n.6.7olo.56y2x
21:56 <spidey|2> John likes 400 but not 300; he likes 100 but not 99; he likes 3600 but not 3700. Which does he like?
21:56 <spidey|2> o_O
21:58 <Vanhayes> http://www.torrentportal.com/
21:58 <Vanhayes> http://www.torrentbox.com/
21:58 <Vanhayes> those ones work good for me
21:59 <spidey|2> wtf
22:00 <spidey|2> Aboy is 4 years old and his sister is three times as old as he is. When the boy is 12 years old, how old will his sister be?
22:00 <spidey|2> the answer is 36 right?
22:00 <Vanhayes> no
22:00 <spidey|2> :|
22:00 <Vanhayes> she will be 20
22:00 <spidey|2> well,twice as old is 24
22:01 <spidey|2> how?
22:01 <spidey|2> nvm
22:01 <Vanhayes> 3 times as old as 4
22:01 <spidey|2> >.>
22:01 <Vanhayes> lol
22:01 <spidey|2> yea yea,lol
22:01 <spidey|2> i did 12*3
22:01 <spidey|2> when it's 12+6
22:01 <spidey|2> 'er
22:01 <spidey|2> 12+89
22:02 <spidey|2> 8!
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> gj wrtlprnft 
22:06 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> anyways, want me to add that option to the camera code now?
22:07 <wrtlprnft> the one for relative/absolute glancing dirs?
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: i dont see y u wont try it
22:11 <spidey|2> spidey: how many times are you gonna ask me to join a crew....
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: plz
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: 
22:11 <spidey|2> spidey: no
22:11 <spidey|2> marisa: ur GREAT!!!!!!!!!
22:12 <spidey|2> marisa: almost the best
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 24
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 3*4 = 12
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> 12+12 = 24
22:15 <spidey|2> no
22:16 <spidey|2> the boy's 8 years older....so add 8 years to the sisters age
22:16 <spidey|2> i think :/
22:16  * spidey|2 is waiting for the iq test to prove he's fucking stupid
22:16 <spidey|2> so who knows x
22:16 <spidey|2> xD
22:18 <Vanhayes> its 3*4+8=20
22:18 <wrtlprnft> boy is four years => girl is 12
22:18 <Vanhayes> yes
22:18 <wrtlprnft> boy grows 8 years older, sister grows 8 years older
22:18 <Vanhayes> but when the boy is 12
22:18 <wrtlprnft> => 20 :)
22:19 <spidey|2> that question was confusing is all :s
22:19 <wrtlprnft> then the boy is 12 and the girl is 20 :)
22:19 <Vanhayes> Exactally
22:19 <wrtlprnft> the canadians solved it!
22:19 <spidey|2> lol
22:19 <Vanhayes> #canada
22:19 <armabot>  4 
22:19 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:20 <spidey|2> 
22:20 <spidey|2> lol
22:20 <spidey|2> test
22:21 <spidey|2> 00lol
22:21 <spidey|2> mmm
22:25 <wrtlprnft> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
22:25 <wrtlprnft> that's why that double- widget bug is appearing!
22:40 <wrtlprnft> #later tell mazuffer thanks for telling me about that bug with both the incam and the normal cockpit appearing at once. The problem was that there was a new camera mode added, and you entered that after incam. The cockpit didn't handle it and just displayed all widgets out of confusion, therefore the chaos. It's fixed in SVN, so the next dev snapshot will have it :)
22:40 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: details?  this sounds like something we need to get into 0.3.0?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
22:52 <armabot> 1
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
22:53 <armabot> Texas > Canada
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, canadians doing math while americans eat dinner
22:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://www.mazuffer.com/temp/screenshot_5.png
22:54 <GodTodd> lucifer: how many credit hours are you taking per full semester?
22:54 <wrtlprnft> that's what it loos like in mercam mode with the default cockpit...
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, that's weird.  What's mercam mode?
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: last semester I took 13 credit hours
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> next semester I'm looking at 12, 14, or 15, depending on whether I decide to take a fourth class, and what it is if I do
22:56 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: try it :P
22:56 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it's fixed tho
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, it might be 11, 14, or 15
22:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:56 <GodTodd> ok....was trying to decide if i should take 4 or 5 classes in august....not sure still
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> my first semester I took 9 credit hours
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I figured I never really had good study habits, and I wanted to start with a lower load so I could focus on good study habits
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> it gave me more time to experiment, and also mitigated any potential damages that screwing up might have caused :)
22:58 <GodTodd> i'm thinking that too...but then my mind says it's going to take for-freaking-ever to get my degree if i take a lower load
22:58 <wrtlprnft> the function of the time I spend doing schoolwork at home vs the grade I'm in has a limit of 0
22:58 <GodTodd> inner conflict and all that ;)
22:58 <wrtlprnft> as the grade goes to oo
22:59 <GodTodd> looking at trig and c++ for sure....then choosing all or some of US History, TX History and US Government
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> there's very little difference the first semester is going to make in how long it takes, imo it's more important to start off on the right foot than to blow away a bunch of credit hours
22:59 <GodTodd> true...
23:00  * Lucifer_arma wonders what an infinite grade looks like
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: expect that to change when you reach college.  :)  If you go, that is.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> around here, they stuff so much material that if you don't study, you miss a lot of what you were taught.  None of those high school baby steps.  :)
23:00 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll end up in university after i finish school in germany
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I'd expect both trig and c++ to carry a pretty good workload even for someone who already knows it all
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> my trig class was pretty easy, though, I could do all the homework for it in about an hour on sunday
23:01 <GodTodd> true...i might just do those and TX History
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> Now history I was really paranoid with, and if you were taking teachers I'd taken I could give you better info :)
23:01  * wrtlprnft hopes one of the c++ projects GodTodd will have to do is write a formula parser
23:02 <wrtlprnft> pass it to arma when you're finished ;)
23:02 <GodTodd> :D
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the problem was that I could see the teacher really loading you down with studying dates and names and figures and crap
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> if the teacher did that to me, I'm fucked.  So I totally went overboard studying for my first history test.
23:02 <GodTodd> heh i have to take java for my degree and even tho c++ isn't technically required it is a prereq for java
23:03 <GodTodd> i can handle history ok
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> but by the time I finished my history sequence, I was just attending, taking notes, reading the book, and then skimming my notes the night before the test
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> I think the real question is always "do they test on rote recall or skills?"
23:03 <GodTodd> very true
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> Because if they test skills (comprehension in history/government classes), I can ace that shit pretty simply
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> if they want rote recall....well, I need to spend some time with it
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's how I'm wired.  :)
23:04 <GodTodd> :)
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I wound up with teachers that tested skills, and have concluded that most teachers at ACC probably test on skills rather than rote recall
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> There's always some rote recall involved, mind you.  :)
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> Luckily, that means I can vary the amount of homework and studying I do.
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> I guess you really need to just take a few classes to get a feel for how they're going to be paced and how much work will be needed,
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> and to some extent you already know from previous schooling
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> the only catch is that you're in a different school, different teachers, different goals, and that's going to influence the classes you take, what you get out of them, and what
23:05 <GodTodd> true....i've taken college courses in 2 other states as well ;)
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> you're expected to put into them
23:06 <GodTodd> right
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you don't need a whole semester to calibrate?  I actually spent two semesters on that step, now I'm hitting full-bore as much as I can handle (or think I can)
23:06 <GodTodd> i think i'm going to stuff precal into wintermester
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> so, in january?
23:07 <GodTodd> right
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, we call that Spring
23:07 <GodTodd> heh we call the one that STARTS in january Spring ;)
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh, oh yeah.  That's right, we do actually turn our heaters on for a few hours in january, don't we?
23:08 <GodTodd> wintermester starts right before winter break and ends a week before Spring starts
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> so calc 1 in the summer?  :)
23:08 <GodTodd> Spring
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> you know, you can double up on precal and trig quite easily
23:09 <GodTodd> not here
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> they won't let you?!?!?
23:09 <GodTodd> precal is a PREreq here
23:09 <GodTodd> errr
23:09 <GodTodd> trig is
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> well of course, but, uhhhhh
23:09 <GodTodd> trig is a prereq for precal
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> you won't need it right away, and you'll have covered it when you do need it :)
23:09 <GodTodd> can't coreq
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, here it's a prereq, but taking the two together is permitted and considered satisfying the prereq
23:10 <GodTodd> i'll doublecheck...probably call the advisors....
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what happens if you ace precal and flunk trig, though
23:10 <GodTodd> lol
23:10 <GodTodd> retake trig
23:10 <GodTodd> *shrug*
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :)
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, the other thing you probably already know, check out the teachers a lot.  :)
23:10 <GodTodd> IF i can coreq them then still calc 1 in Spring
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> I pick kids with good work ethics and good grades and generally take what they say about their teachers to heart and think about it
23:11 <GodTodd> so no biggie if i can't
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> but those lazy little fucks that whine about having to do homework in the first place?  Nah, I'll avoid the teachers they like.
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:11 <GodTodd> i know those ropes
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> I can't see you (or anybody) doing precal and calc 1 at the same time
23:11 <GodTodd> nope
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> everything that's in precal really is a prereq for calc 1
23:12 <GodTodd> wouldn't have to....if they offer it in wintermester that is
23:12 <GodTodd> yep
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> so they have a separate wintermester?  That's odd....heh
23:12 <GodTodd> we have 5 semesters (unless you count summer as 3)...Fall, Winter, Spring, May, Summer
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I'll bet there's actually something like that at acc, but it'll be different
23:13 <GodTodd> it's like having an additional Summer I & II a year
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> we have the standard 3 semesters where fall and spring are 14 week semesters, then summer is 11 weeks
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> then they have an 8 week term for both fall and spring, and a 3.5 week term for the summer
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> *5.5
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> seems like they could squeeze out 5 terms with those iddy-bitty terms, but not out of the long terms
23:14 <GodTodd> ahhhh....so kinda the same thing...just different ;)
23:14 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with 15
23:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [22:56:25] <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, it might be 11, 14, or 15
23:14 <wrtlprnft> that's 18 minutes ago now and I'm tired ;)
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and they do have two 8-week terms in a row in the spring, which now tht i think aabout it is a 16-week semester
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> hey, ummm
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> your_mom's got a crash when he leaves local game.  That spells branch to me.
23:16 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: your_mom has lots of weird errors
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> what's the possibility you could straighten out the columns in the scoreboard?  You say you already fixed the mercam thing?  I don't think we'll be able to just turn the alpha into 0.3.0
23:16 <wrtlprnft> we need an opengl guy for that
23:16 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it's more or less 0 right now...
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> not really, he has one problem that I know of, which is the game crashing when he quits.  The mechanism that changes the screen resolution when the game crashes doesn't work too well, that's his other problem
23:16 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is that it's not a real table
23:17 <wrtlprnft> and real table support has a long way to go
23:17 <wrtlprnft> anything like a debug recording?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> no, I recognize his symptoms, and it's probably something in the sound engine, to be honest
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like a debug recording, just haven't asked him for one yet
23:18 <wrtlprnft> I don't think i changed anything that could make arma crash on exit ;)
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so the mercam screenshot I'm looking at right now is fixed though?
23:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah
23:19 <wrtlprnft> Commit by wrtlprnft :: r4885 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/cockpit/ (cCockpit.cpp cCockpit.h): 
23:19 <wrtlprnft> Fixed the bug that all widgets would appear in mercam mode. There just wasn't any handling for it, added it.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, then it looks like the only thing terrible in the alpha right now is a crash.  Which, to be honest, if it's just a crash when exiting local game I might be willing to blow off
23:20 <wrtlprnft> I added the font size factor thing
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> that was it, you said you were tired and I wanted to catch that before you took off :)
23:21 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:21 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's good, people will be happy about that one
23:21 <wrtlprnft> then the forbid stuff, silly should be happy now
23:33 <GodTodd> wtf....not even offering precal for math and science in fall :/
23:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508744C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:38 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-76-248.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: check the alpha thread, I responded to your crash thing
23:58 <Your_mom_arma> every time i leave a local game it crashes
23:58 <Your_mom_arma> its not sometimes its all the time

Log from 2006-06-14:
--- Day changed Wed Jun 14 2006
00:00 <Your_mom_arma> hmm i turned off bots in local game and i actually got a crash pop up
00:00 <Your_mom_arma> after trying to leave that is
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> how about on a server?  fine there?  server with bots?  fine then, too?
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> this feels like a crash that was fixed, and I suspect it's a case of someone accidentally clobbering someone else's fix
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> happens sometimes.  :)
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> it might very well be a new crash, though, which worries me a bit.
00:11 <Your_mom_arma> on a server with players no crash
00:12 <Your_mom_arma> server with bots no crash
00:12 <Your_mom_arma> Hitting the {bound} play button after creating and placing {ex.} C:\blah.m3u into the proper prompt the game crashes
00:30 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [i=blah@] has joined #armagetron
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> sounds like a sound engine crash to me
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> how many and what types of sound files are in the .m3u file?
00:32 <Your_mom_arma> 9 mp
00:32 <Your_mom_arma> 3's
00:38 <z-man-home> Trunk compilation seems broken, Lucifer_arma, wrtlprnft, know anything?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: not me, other than wrtlprnft was working on the trunk earlier
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> what's broken?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: hmmm....
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> aha.  did you restart it after you put the playlist in the config?
00:39 <z-man-home> The configuration system. nSettingItem uses private stuff from tConfigItem
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> really?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> er
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> how?  (me and Luke-Jr are having a "discussion" aobut private members)
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> I *think* wrtlprnft was doing something with config, but I don't know that he was in the system itself.
00:41 <z-man-home> Well, it doesn't use them. It properly fails to compile. :)
00:41 <z-man-home> It's a callback function typedef that is used.
00:41 <z-man-home> Aww, anyway, it's an easy fix.
00:42 <Your_mom_arma> zman you where right about ztrick 
00:42 <z-man-home> hehe, ok. Time to get rid of that 'feature' :)
00:43 <Your_mom_arma> no luci i didnt restart it although i noticed that clears the prompt
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: I'm going to have to say from my googling that uPnP has enough penetration to support at most 20 hours of development time spent on supporting it ourselves
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: umm, if it crashed, the setting wasn't saved.  :)  Try again, but this time restart before starting the music.  So put in the playlist, quit, then restart and hit play.
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: there might be justification for more work on it, but most of what I found was "uPnP is great!  Everybody has it!".  So, nothing objective :)
00:44 -!- SuPeRTaRD [n=blah@adsl-71-145-139-15.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:45 <z-man-home> So you did a google fight between "uPnP rocks" and "uPnP sucks"?
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> and that "at most" figure is supposed to include supporting it over a couple of years, it assumes the underlying api we'd use that I linked is well-supported in and of itself
00:45 <Your_mom_arma> luci still crashed
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "uPnP rocks" "uPnP sucks"
00:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: uPnP rocks: 92400, uPnP sucks: 36000
00:46 <Luke-Jr> BTW, should engine noise block 0.3.0?
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: no, we decided that awhile back :)
00:46 <spidey|2> Congratulations, Spidey!
00:46 <spidey|2> Your IQ score is 106
00:46 <spidey|2> does that mean i'm smart or stupid?
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> slightly above average
00:46 <spidey|2> sweet
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> so you're not in the dumb half of the world :)
00:46 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: aww, I miss it =p
00:46 <spidey|2> :D
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I hope to bring it back in the next couple of months.  :)  0.3.2 will have it for sure, I suspect, if not it should probably block by then, but 0.3.1....depends on how quickly we make development releases.
00:47 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you know, 50% of the world is dumber than average... ;)
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's not quite true :)
00:47 <Luke-Jr> I know
00:47 <Luke-Jr> it'd be true w/ a median
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's fun to say, I know...
00:48 <Luke-Jr> but the dumber half won't know what a median is
00:48 <spidey|2> heh
00:48 <spidey|2> a median is?
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> spidey|2: what's a median?
00:48 <spidey|2> lmao
00:48 <Luke-Jr> in reality, I bet it's more like 90% are dumber than avg =p
00:48 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: still crashed
00:48 <spidey|2> something that seaperates something ;D
00:48 <spidey|2> like on the highway :p
00:48 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:48 <Luke-Jr> point in case
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: this sounds pretty bad, actually.
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> Any windows users here try to use the ingame music in the alpha?
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> besides Your_mom_arma...
00:49 <spidey|2> there's ingame music in alpha?
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> sorta...heh
00:49 <Luke-Jr> median
00:49 <Luke-Jr>      adj 1: relating to or constituting the middle value of an ordered
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             set of values (or the average of the middle two in an
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             even-numbered set); "the median value of 17, 20, and
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             36 is 20"; "the median income for the year was
00:49 <spidey|2> there's a windows alpha build?
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             $15,000" [syn: median(a), average]
00:49 <spidey|2> or wait,i think i got that
00:49 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> there's an ingame player, but you really have to put your own playlist in there to use it
00:50 <Luke-Jr> you do?
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I hit Next and Play
00:50 <Luke-Jr> and it plays fortresswalk
00:50 <Luke-Jr> no configuration
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> really?
00:50 <Luke-Jr> yep
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> that, uhhh, surprises me, haha
00:50 <Luke-Jr> hehe
00:50  * Lucifer_arma thought he disabled it
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> well ok then z-man-home, no reason to feel bad for including those in there.
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I was actually expecting that the bug was it didn't play when the match started
00:51 <Luke-Jr> eg, if no custom playlist, it used an internal one
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> there is a bug that it won't start playing when you join a game anymore that is probably another clobbered change from the past that I decided to blow off for now
00:51 <Luke-Jr> brb
00:51 <spidey|2> dude
00:51 <spidey|2> i didn't know there was a windows .3 build.....
00:51 <Vanhayes> spidey|2: I wouldn't put much stock into IQ tests, I took one a couple years back and got a 119.
00:51 <z-man-home> Hey, I get the crash already when I hit "Next".
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> you think we're releasing an actual versioned release, however unstable, without a windows release?  *that* would hae been a showstopper :)
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, while we're comparing cocks....
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:52 <spidey|2> this integrated graphics can handle that better than the one with nix can :/
00:52  * spidey|2 downloads it
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: you getting the crash in linux?!?
00:53 <z-man-home> May be a different crash :)
00:53 <z-man-home> But I hit the previously unbound "Next Track" button, and get an instant crash.
00:53 <spidey|2> Vanhayes, the last time i took one i got a 89
00:53 <spidey|2> i think
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> it might be, but as you know, pretty much everyone running off the trunk tht's not developers are in linux, and the music player's been there long enough to be fairly well tested
00:53 <spidey|2> and i was like 12
00:53 <Vanhayes> ya they arnt very reliable
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> even if I can't remember what I changed, haha
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> can you get a callstack?
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: can *you* get a callstack?
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> hmm?
00:54 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"]
00:54 <z-man-home> Well, it's a NULL pointer dereferencing of m_GameTrack
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> oh is that all it is
00:54 <z-man-home> Yes
00:54  * Lucifer_arma growls
00:55 <z-man-home> #0  0x0817412c in eMusicTrack::Next (this=0x0) at eMusicTrackSDLMixer.cpp:267
00:55 <z-man-home> #1  0x0816b8af in eSoundMixer::Music_next_song (x=1) at eSoundMixer.cpp:735
00:55 <z-man-home> #2  0x081b88fb in uActionGlobalFunc::GlobalAct (act=0x82d1500, x=1) at uInput.cpp:909
00:55 <Your_mom_arma> z-man-home: is there anyway to turn off the camera tilt when grinding?
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> part of my problem here is that my computer is seriously thrashed, so I can't build and test right now, and I can't fix it until next week or so
00:55 <z-man-home> Don't ask me, I didn't touch it.
00:56 <z-man-home> Well, I can add the NULL pointer check myself no problem.
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, that's a broken playlist thing
01:00 <Lucifer_arma>     if(! m_Playlist->empty() ) {  <--- line 267 of eMusicTrackSDLMixer.cpp
01:00 <z-man-home> Your_mom_arma: Maybe "Int. camera Movement: Off"?
01:00 <z-man-home> Well, but the this pointer at this point is already NULL.
01:00 <z-man-home> Look at the callstack function arguments.
01:01 <z-man-home> Music_next_song dereferences m_GameTrack, which is NULL.
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I see that.  so why does it go into the function then?
01:01 <z-man-home> Because C++ doesn't check for NULL pointers.
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> m_GameTrack is *never* supposed to be null
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> heh thanks zman
01:01 <z-man-home> That's for Wusses :)
01:02 <z-man-home> If it never is supposed to be NULL, it shouldn't be a plain pointer.
01:02 <z-man-home> Can't it be a regular member variable?
01:02 <spidey|2> well,my fps stay at 59 on this computer,on the other one (the nix) they drop to 27 or lower :(
01:02 <Lucifer_arma>     m_GameTrack = new eMusicTrack();  <--- in eSoundMixer::Init()
01:02  * z-man-home checks whether that bit is called
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's line 311
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose it can be a regular member variable.  Playlists can be quite large, and ultimately an eMusicTrack might be quite large, so I wanted it on the heap
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> and at the time (and even now, but at least now I know that I should look around a lot more) I had no clue what classes to use for smarter pointers :)
01:06 <z-man-home> Mix_OpenAudio returns 333618457, and ::Init() exits thereafter. It doesn't pass the creation.
01:06 <z-man-home> Maybe move the creation somewhere where it is always executed?
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, Mix_OpenAudio is supposed to return 0 when it's successful, anything else means something's broke
01:10 <spidey|2> heh
01:10 <spidey|2> tron made first in te most active projects in the caregory of "hack"
01:10 <spidey|2> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hack
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> can you change the Mix_OpenAudio call to have MIX_DEFAULT_FORMAT instead of AUDIO_whateveristhere ?
01:12 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: well, my soundcard isn't working half of the time
01:12 <z-man-home> I'll try
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> if that doesn't work, the null pointer checks need to be made.....
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> starting line 646 is where all the input handlers are
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> inside the switch() statement, right after case GRID_TRACK
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> there's 7 methods total there, pretty clearly named :)
01:15 <z-man-home> Still the same return value
01:15  * Lucifer_arma adds to his todo list "allow sound to be disabled"
01:16  * Lucifer_arma thought he'd already done that, must be early senility setting in.
01:16 <z-man-home> There are lots of other dereferencings, not only from the GUI functions, it seems.
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> 333618457  <--- is this -1 when a signed int?
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> there are, but the GUI ones are the dangerous ones.  If you know of a template or some other magic that lets you just fix it in one place, knock yourself out :)
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the GUI ones are the dangerous ones because those are the ones that actually get run
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma's crash is probably caused in the Update() method where the mode is supposed to be switched from GRID_TRACK to GUI_TRACK
01:18 <z-man-home> I'm just thinking that "a pointer that NEVER should be NULL" shouldn't be initialized only after initialization of something nonessential succeeded :)
01:19 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=3291 <- how armagetron looks to me right now
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> it's only the sound library failing to initialize, heh
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the alternative is to move the initialization to before that call...duh...
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> in fct, you should move the whole block starting from line 298 and ending at line 311 to right before that call
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> that block is probably independent enough to put even at the beginning of the init method if you really want
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> you need the tDirectories call on line 292 too
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> that's a beautiful lavendar there, mom
01:23 <Your_mom_arma> haha
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> what are the bar gauges?
01:25  * Lucifer_arma wants a circular gauge so he can make an analog clock
01:25 <Your_mom_arma> same here
01:27 <Your_mom_arma> brake rubber and speed i can never find a guage when i need to so the more i have the more likely i'll find it "you can never find the horn when your angry"
01:27 <Your_mom_arma> im still messing around with stuff the documentation is hard to parse and is missing pieces
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it hadn't even occured to me to make multiple gauges.  I just stuck my gauges up in the middle of the screen, and so far everyone that's used my cockpit says the gauges obstruct the view :)
01:29 <spidey|2> ...
01:29 <spidey|2> luci,how do you install a cycle mod :/
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> model, you mean?
01:30 <spidey|2> yea,make it look different
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> you're going to need a moviepack for that :)
01:30 <spidey|2> got one
01:30 <spidey|2> but i never could figure it out
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> you want to isntall the moviepack?
01:30 <spidey|2> yer
01:31 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: I'll handle this later. No time now.
01:31 <Your_mom_arma> unzip it into armagetronad/moviepack and turn moviepack on from misc
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks
01:32 <spidey|2> that's it?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I was looking for the wiki page on installing moviepacks :)
01:32 <Your_mom_arma> yep
01:32 <z-man-home> Moving the block removed the crashes, but there are memory leaks then. Maybe the uninitialization function needs a look, too.
01:32 <spidey|2> didn't work :/
01:32 <spidey|2> done tried it 
01:32 <Your_mom_arma> the textures are inside of /moviepack?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> frequently moviepacks are in zip files that contain a moviepack directory, so you'd unzip it in armagetronad instead
01:32 <spidey|2> yea,i put everything in /moviepack
01:33 <spidey|2> it didn't have a moviepack dir in the zip,so i made one :p
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Customizing_the_game
01:34 <spidey|2> read that
01:34 <spidey|2> it doesn't even try to load the movie pack,it uses the default one
01:35 <spidey|2> heh,nvm
01:35 <spidey|2> after i restarted it the third time it loaded it
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> which moviepack you running?
01:38 <spidey|2> the matrix one
01:38 <spidey|2> on the linux version of .3 i changed a setting that made the zone have transparent sides
01:39 <spidey|2> i can't remember which one it was,you know?
01:40 <spidey|2> ahh
01:40 <spidey|2> turn alpha blending off
01:40 <Your_mom_arma> yeah
01:41 <spidey|2> hmm
01:41 <spidey|2> in a certain view,there's 2 of everything
01:41 <spidey|2> the minimap/gauges
01:42 <Your_mom_arma> yeah incam
01:42 <spidey|2> no
01:42 <spidey|2> it's a overhead angeled view
01:42 <spidey|2> incam has only 1 of everything
01:47 <Your_mom_arma> luci whats that white bar do in your cockpit file?
01:51 <Your_mom_arma> spidey your in windows .3 alpha right?
01:52 <Your_mom_arma> play a local game and then hit esc and leave grid tell me if it takes you to the menu or crashes to desktop
01:55 <spidey|2> yea
01:55 <spidey|2> k
01:55 <spidey|2> sec
01:55 <spidey|2> nope
01:55 <spidey|2> doesn't crash
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: which bar is it?  I don't notice colors :)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the bar on the left is brake, the right is velocity, and under that is acceleration
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the top is fps, and I think that's all the bars I have
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01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the crash seems to be happening on machines where sdl_mixer isn't able to initialize for some reason, and that error isn't handled very well at all
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02:00 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> just like old times.. ;p
02:01 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> my team naturally won..
02:01 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl is now known as SuPeRTaRD
02:01 <Your_mom_arma> velocity
02:02 <Your_mom_arma> bbiab
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02:07 <Luke-Jr> some ideas
02:07 <Luke-Jr> 1. make tails disappear based on time, not length-- thus, faster means longer tails
02:07 <Luke-Jr> 2. a mode where your own walls can't kill you-- instead, you cut them short
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> 1 - I've been wanting for awhile
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> 2 - particularly neat if the part that's cut off responds to wall_delay
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> 2 - also neat if everyone grinding on the part of your wall that's cut is instantly killed :)
02:17 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-76-248.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 2a- what's wall_delay? :/
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 2b- optionally
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 1- is it difficult?
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> the one that determines how long your walls stay up after you die before being dropped
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how hard any of it is :)
02:18  * Luke-Jr notes it's not mentioned in language/english_base nor arma --doc
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> it might be called something else, and I'm just ass wrong on the name?
02:19 <Luke-Jr> well
02:19 <Luke-Jr> you'd die if they didn't drop immediately...
02:20 <Luke-Jr> 3. No-Wall zones where you cannot draw walls inside
02:20 <Luke-Jr> 4. Delete-Wall zones which delete your past walls (up to a certain length?) while inside
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> 3 is planned in philippe's zone model
02:21 <Luke-Jr> 5. Seperate effects out of zones, and apply to walls also
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, you didn't define cut.  I assumed like a knife :) .  An explosion of the wall could be used to cut too, and those would allow the wall delay thing to work
02:21 <Luke-Jr> 5 eg. Walls default to effect 'kill', but can be reassigned to 'delete-wall:unlimited length'
02:22  * Lucifer_arma wonders if walls should be remade into zone derivatives
02:22 -!- spidey|2 is now known as spidey|sleep
02:22 <Luke-Jr> Zone and Wall need a common parent, I think
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> besides eGameObject?  ;)
02:22 <Luke-Jr> Wall being a generic 2D instance
02:22 <Luke-Jr> eGameObject doesn't implement effects
02:22 <Luke-Jr> nor should it, I think
02:23 <Luke-Jr> wait, no
02:23 <Luke-Jr> Wall would be 1D
02:23 <Luke-Jr> Zone would be 2D
02:25 <Luke-Jr> non-death effects on a Wall depends on CSS-- in particular, an opaque flag
02:25 <Luke-Jr> opacity*
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02:28 <Your_mom_arma> so luci do you need a recording to fix the problem or is it related to the sound problem?
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02:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's almost certainly the sound problem
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> how do sound effects sound to you?
02:29 <Your_mom_arma> the opening music works ingame i dont here anything then i hear a pop when i try to exit and it crashes
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> so no sound effects in game?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> what I suspect is that for people who don't have crashes, sound works fine, but for people who do have crashes, they'll report unusual sounds of varying sorts
02:32 <Your_mom_arma> pretty much
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> note that there's no cycle engine sound right now, you should still hear grinding, turning, explosions, an announcer that says 3,2,1, a whistle on Go!, and a zone spawn noise
02:33  * Lucifer_arma curses SDL's sound api.  It's not SDL_mixer's fault we don't get real error reporting!
02:40 <Luke-Jr> we need other announcer yells
02:41 <Luke-Jr> like um
02:41 <Luke-Jr> "Mega Kill"
02:41 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> YES.  We do.  :)
02:41 <Your_mom_arma> killing spree
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> There's a wiki page with a list, feel free to add whatever other announcer yells you want, maybe even with some text to explain the conditions under which they'll be used
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> It's in the development docs page somewhere
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: branched 0.3.0, the sound thingee tipped it over
02:43 <z-man> Ok, based on the current trunk code?
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: the branch removes any urgency you might feel, if you'd like, and I'll get it next week and we'll shoot for next weekend for 0.3.0 (not this coming weekend, that's my calc test)
02:43 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft ok :)
02:43 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
02:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you make announcer yells, I presume? do it in trunk for 0.3.1 =p
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> the current announcer was made by voltsubito, we need a new announcer and it won't be my geeky whiny voice
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: yes, based on current trunk code
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> I got armagetronad, build, and winlibs.  Do I need anything else over there?
02:45 <z-man> build_eclipse would be nice. Why didn't you just branch everyting?
02:45 <z-man> (in /root/armagetronad)
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> ummmmm
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> hm
02:45 <Your_mom_arma> is multiple custom cams capable of making .3?
02:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: um, branches should just be a copy of trunk
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> don't know?  ;)
02:45 <Your_mom_arma> (are)
02:45 <Luke-Jr> um
02:45 <Luke-Jr> why do we have a 0.3.0 tag?
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: unlikely, we need to think a bit how to do that, I think.
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> mistake?  people make those from time to time
02:46 <Luke-Jr> so delete it? =p
02:46 <z-man> Sure.
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> we were going to check with the Historian before deleting it and see if he wanted it bronzed.
02:47 <Luke-Jr> it's still in history =p
02:48 <Luke-Jr> svn rm https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0 && svn cp https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0    
02:49 <z-man> No, the branch is fine.
02:49 <z-man> I think, haven't checked it out.
02:49 <Luke-Jr> it's missing a bit
02:49 <Luke-Jr> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0/
02:50 <z-man> Oh, that.
02:50 <z-man> I misread the second command, thought you wanted to copy the tag over.
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> -r 4887  <--- if you want to redo the branch for my incompetence, please use this revision :)
02:51 <z-man> And it's complete now.
02:51  * Lucifer_arma isn't sure why he's being anal about that
02:51 <Luke-Jr> branches/tags should always be copies of trunk
02:51 <Luke-Jr> consistency
02:51 <z-man> ok, I'll redo it.
02:52 <Luke-Jr> especially here, since it might make a difference in future RCS migrations
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02:52 <Luke-Jr> sjRCSjSCMj
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> no good reason to worry about the revision, I think I'm just being paranoid again
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's the latest revision on the trunk :)
02:53 <Luke-Jr> so, trunk HEAD
02:53 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, doing it piecemeal like I was, it did kinda make a difference, if someone committed to the trunk in the meantime
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> unlikely to break anything, but, well, hmmmm......
02:54 <z-man> It could mess with merging.
02:54 <z-man> And copying the whole is actually cheaper than copying the bits :)
02:55 <z-man> You can also svn cp <local checkout> <URL of branch>
02:55 <z-man> That starts the branch at the exact state of your local checkout, that you previously verified to be in a good state :)
02:56 <z-man> Branch restarted. Nice thing is, svn update only gets the new bits. No need to get fresh checkouts.
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool, so I've gotta get to bed before I fall down.  7 hours sleep in 2 days, this isn't boding well for the rest of the week.  'night.
03:10 <Luke-Jr> o
03:10 <Luke-Jr> I just bought 2 switches =p
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03:10 <Luke-Jr> and a new server
03:11 <Luke-Jr> hopefully aabeta will see a performance increase
03:11 <Luke-Jr> new server is Dual 550 MHz (PowerEdge 6400)
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04:27  * Luke-Jr thinks we should just treat Windows players/developers as second-class >:p
04:27 <Luke-Jr> next time there's a FPS optimization, let's not have it apply to Win
04:35 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: huh ?
04:37 <joda_bot> I guess you're just referening to OpenGL problems, which are mostly driver based ... so it's rather Windows wide range of hardware (and also problematic OpenGL drivers) than the OS ;)
04:49 <Luke-Jr> nah
04:49 <Luke-Jr> I'm referring to sabotaging the game in Win
04:49 <Luke-Jr> #ifdef __WIN32__ makeslower()
04:49 <Luke-Jr> =p
05:05 <Luke-Jr> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
05:05 <Luke-Jr> loading server list
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06:09 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-198.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
06:09 <madmax|pt> hello
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06:34 <wrtlprnft> z-man: uh, sorry about the compillation error, it didn't fail for me. Must be a bug in gcc 3.4...
06:36 <wrtlprnft> spidey|sleep: the 
06:36 <wrtlprnft> oops
06:36 <spidey|sleep> ?
06:36 <wrtlprnft> spidey|sleep: that obe bug you reported is fixed
06:36 -!- spidey|sleep is now known as spidey|2
06:37 <spidey|2> obe?
06:37 <wrtlprnft> the one with both incam and normal gauges appearing
06:37 <spidey|2> oh
06:37 <wrtlprnft> s/obe//
06:37  * wrtlprnft just woke up
06:37 <spidey|2> just thought you might wanna know,i don't use that view anyways :p
06:37  * spidey|2 did too
06:38 <wrtlprnft> that view is kinda new and definitely worth a try as an alternitive to smartcam :)
06:38 <wrtlprnft> it's new
06:39 <wrtlprnft> s/new/neat/
06:39 <wrtlprnft> o_O
06:41 <spidey|2> lol
06:41  * spidey|2 wants to go back to sleep
07:12 <spidey|2> http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8226/untitled1zo.jpg
07:12 <spidey|2> i love that font
07:13 <spidey|2> umm
07:13 <spidey|2> what's the big yellow line
07:13 <spidey|2> lol
07:14 <wrtlprnft> what the...?
07:14 <spidey|2> not sure
07:15 <wrtlprnft> interesting lagometer...
07:15 <spidey|2> i don't think that was there when i took the shot
07:15 <wrtlprnft> o_O
07:15 <spidey|2> yea
07:15 <wrtlprnft> that's for some opengl guru i guess...
07:15 <spidey|2> my lag meters are big
07:15 <wrtlprnft> no clue what's wrong
07:16 <spidey|2> nothing's wrong,heh
07:16 <spidey|2> i was showing the font i love
07:16 <spidey|2> xD
07:16 <wrtlprnft> aaaah
07:16 <spidey|2> but i don't know where that big yellow line came from
07:16 <wrtlprnft> so that's not the normal font?
07:16 <spidey|2> lmao
07:16 <spidey|2> no,it's font_type 4
07:16 <wrtlprnft> i thought that was some rendering error
07:16 <spidey|2> nah
07:16 <spidey|2> looked fine when i took it
07:17 <spidey|2> might be from converting it to a jp
07:17 <spidey|2> jpg
07:17 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: i don't see a yellow line anyways
07:17 <wrtlprnft> it's white
07:17 <spidey|2> what tha
07:17 <spidey|2> how can you not see that!!??
07:17 <spidey|2> it's like almost over the bike
07:18 <spidey|2> it goes weird through the lag meter,then has a white dot
07:18 <spidey|2> in the middle
07:19 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/tronfont.png
07:19 <spidey|2> yea...
07:19 <spidey|2> that big ass yellow line
07:19 <spidey|2> that goes up
07:19 <spidey|2> then right
07:20 <spidey|2> then down
07:20 <spidey|2> you don't see it?
07:20 <wrtlprnft> it's white!
07:20 <spidey|2> is not!!
07:20 <wrtlprnft> something's wrong with the colors on your screen methinks
07:20 <spidey|2> noooooooooooooo
07:20 <madmax|pt> its a bit yellow
07:20 <spidey|2> see
07:20 <spidey|2> pwn
07:22 <wrtlprnft> o_O
07:23 <madmax|pt> it is, i confirmed with the eyedropper in photoshop
07:23 <madmax|pt> lol
07:23 <spidey|2> see
07:23 <madmax|pt> its this color actually: E6F69D
07:23 <spidey|2> your colors are broke :p
07:23 <madmax|pt> lol
07:23 <spidey|2> xD
07:24 <wrtlprnft> second
07:24 <spidey|2> you got a high contrast setting wrtl ?
07:25 <madmax|pt> its something like Pantone 393 C
07:25 <madmax|pt> lol
07:25 <madmax|pt> solid coated btw
07:26 <wrtlprnft> nope
07:26 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/tronfont1.png
07:26 <spidey|2> yes
07:26 <spidey|2> that's yellow
07:26 <spidey|2> you're color blind :p
07:26 <spidey|2> that lag meter is white
07:27 <spidey|2> not that line that shouldn't be there :p
07:28 <madmax|pt> wrtlprnft, did you saved the image or just made a screenshot of it? something altered between spidey's and yours
07:29 <wrtlprnft> i was making a screenshot of my browser :P
07:29 <madmax|pt> lol, nvm
07:29 <wrtlprnft> nice cockpit, your_mom has
07:29 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=3291
07:29 <spidey|2> Sorry but you are not authorized to view or download this Attachment
07:29 <spidey|2> lol
07:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, log in on the forums?
07:30 <wrtlprnft> that image is worth it
07:30 <spidey|2> nice
07:31 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:31 <spidey|2> see
07:31 <spidey|2> somethingl ike that wouldn't kill my fps so bad
07:32 <wrtlprnft> what is killing your fps? the cockpit, the font, the sound?
07:32 <spidey|2> the font i think
07:33 <spidey|2> or maybe all the text onscreen
07:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, try the following:
07:33 <wrtlprnft> COCKPUT_FILE asdf
07:33 <wrtlprnft> that disables the cockpit
07:33 <wrtlprnft> (then reset it, of course)
07:33 <wrtlprnft> FONT_TYPE 0
07:34 <wrtlprnft> for the font
07:34 <wrtlprnft> see which one gives you a boost
07:34 <spidey|2> k
07:34 <spidey|2> cockput or cockpit?
07:34 <wrtlprnft> second of course ;)
07:34 <spidey|2> :p
07:35 <spidey|2> :s
07:35 <spidey|2> now there's no onscreen text
07:35 <spidey|2> or gauges
07:36 <madmax|pt> "that disables the cockpit" ?
07:36 <spidey|2> no
07:36 <spidey|2> it disableds the gauges :p
07:36 <spidey|2> and everything else but the talking
07:41 <madmax|pt> any1 know the link to that feature in flickr that you would draw something in a small square and it would search for pictures according to that pattern?
07:41 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: that IS the cockpit
07:44 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
07:44 <spidey|2> wrtlprnft, i sooooooooo knew that :s
07:44  * spidey|2 trips z-man-work on his way in
07:45 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: so, what about your framerate
07:45 <spidey|2> i would tell you,but i can't see it :p
07:46 <wrtlprnft> ackackackack
07:46 <spidey|2> lmfao
07:46 <wrtlprnft> make a cockpit file that just has a fps meter?
07:47 <z-man-work> way out, please.
07:47  * spidey|2 trips z-man-work on his way out
07:47  * z-man-work is going home and spidey can trip him again later
07:47 <spidey|2> :D
07:48  * madmax|pt is away: Lunch
07:48 <wrtlprnft> that was a short time of working...
07:53  * wrtlprnft finds spidey|2 waiting next to z-man-work's door at home, preparing to trip him. wrtlprnft kicks spidey|2's ass from behind and runs away
07:53 <spidey|2> lol
07:54 <spidey|2> hey wrtl
07:54  * spidey|2 is looking at your cockpit file
07:55 <wrtlprnft> bb in 20 minutes, sorry
07:55 <spidey|2> k
07:55 <wrtlprnft> but talk, I'll read it in my backlog
07:55 <wrtlprnft> unlile Luke-Jr, wrtlprnft reads his chatlog
07:55 <wrtlprnft> *unlike
07:55 <spidey|2> <Cell><GameData data="enemies" /></Cell>
07:55 <spidey|2> to add color to something like that
07:56 <spidey|2> would i add the hex in that line?
07:58 <spidey|2> ah
07:59 <spidey|2> nvm,i was looking at the wrong cockpit file
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08:08  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:20:49)
08:17 <spidey|2> :/
08:17 <spidey|2> wrtlprnft, how i get the cockpit back :\
08:18 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:19 <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:19 <wrtlprnft> read the message when you change settings ;)
08:20 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: to add color: <Cell><Text value="0xff000" /><GameData data="enemies" /></Cell>
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08:25 <spidey|2> k
08:25 <spidey|2> how do i reload your cockpit?
08:25 <spidey|2> lol
08:25 <wrtlprnft> mine?
08:25 <spidey|2> oh
08:25 <spidey|2> yea
08:26 <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE wrtlprnft/testfile-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:26  * wrtlprnft should really change the name of this cockpit...
08:26 <wrtlprnft> it's not in testing anymore ;)
08:26 <spidey|2> whoa
08:27 <wrtlprnft> press the first cockpit key tu turn off the map
08:27 <spidey|2> that's the one with virtical gauges and the big ass map
08:27 <spidey|2> lol
08:27 <wrtlprnft> *to
08:27 <wrtlprnft> and the second one to dim the rendering
08:28 <spidey|2> which one is one with the small map?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> the default one?
08:28 <spidey|2> yea
08:28 <wrtlprnft> and lucifer's one
08:28 <spidey|2> ah
08:29 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard
08:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:19:15] <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:29 <spidey|2> lol
08:29 <spidey|2> failed to load the lucifer\sick
08:30 <wrtlprnft> and Lucifer's: COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:30 <wrtlprnft> and the "classic" one: cockpit_file wrtlprnft/classic-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:30 <spidey|2> ah
08:30 <spidey|2> here we go
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that's all there is in the included resources
08:31 <spidey|2> erm
08:31 <spidey|2> that's not the one either
08:31 <wrtlprnft> I'd like to include your_mom's, too
08:31 <spidey|2> you saw the one i had before didn't you?
08:31 <wrtlprnft> the one on the screenshot?
08:31 <spidey|2> yea
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that was the standard one
08:31 <spidey|2> ohhh
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard --without last
08:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:31:48] <wrtlprnft> that was the standard one
08:32 <wrtlprnft> gah
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard --without last --with aacockpit
08:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:19:15] <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
08:32 <armabot> spidey: 15:32:13 up 53 days, 15:37, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
08:33 <spidey|2> ningo
08:33 <spidey|2> thanks :D
08:33 <wrtlprnft> yw
08:33 <wrtlprnft> make your own one if you don't like the provided ones :P
08:33 <wrtlprnft> and don't forget them to the official resource repository *sic*
08:34 <wrtlprnft> *don't forget to commit them
08:34  * wrtlprnft should get more sleep
08:49 <GodTodd> hmmm....how come it won't load my playlist?....i must be doing something stupid heh
08:57 <spidey|2> z-man-home, you're the coach right?
08:57 <z-man-home> Well, yes.
08:57 <spidey|2> lmao
08:57 <z-man-home> But it's quite hopeless
08:57 <z-man-home> MAMA shows no sign of listening
08:57 <spidey|2> you should have told them who you was,then kicked 'em all xD
08:58  * z-man-home feels like taking names
08:59 <spidey|2> it was psyko that polled you :p
09:02 <z-man-home> And the vote was quite unanimous
09:03  * spidey|2 voted against xD
09:07 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Reconnecting"]
09:07 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-43-82.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
09:11 <z-man-home> Ok, perhaps it's better to just call yourself "Coach" when coaching, most players don't really read names fully.
09:11  * z-man-home wonders why the imposters make the effort to exchange l for 1 if "Deine X" is mistaken for "X's Coach"
09:12 <spidey|2> lol
09:18 <madmax|pt> z-man-home, did you actually did something that worth the poll?
09:18 <z-man-home> I chose the wrong name :)
09:18 <spidey|2> lol
09:19 <madmax|pt> i just had someone turning back to the gold zone (while i defended) for 5 rounds
09:19 <madmax|pt> i said "dont turn back" some times
09:19 <madmax|pt> and...
09:19 <madmax|pt> nothing
09:19 <madmax|pt> heh
09:20 <madmax|pt> i think new players get amazed of whats happening and dont quite pay attention to the chat
09:20 <madmax|pt> lol
09:21 <spidey|2> lol
09:27 <z-man-home> I wonder whether there is room for a "driving sch