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Log from 2006-06-14:
--- Day changed Wed Jun 14 2006
00:00 <Your_mom_arma> hmm i turned off bots in local game and i actually got a crash pop up
00:00 <Your_mom_arma> after trying to leave that is
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> how about on a server?  fine there?  server with bots?  fine then, too?
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> this feels like a crash that was fixed, and I suspect it's a case of someone accidentally clobbering someone else's fix
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> happens sometimes.  :)
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> it might very well be a new crash, though, which worries me a bit.
00:11 <Your_mom_arma> on a server with players no crash
00:12 <Your_mom_arma> server with bots no crash
00:12 <Your_mom_arma> Hitting the {bound} play button after creating and placing {ex.} C:\blah.m3u into the proper prompt the game crashes
00:30 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [i=blah@] has joined #armagetron
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> sounds like a sound engine crash to me
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> how many and what types of sound files are in the .m3u file?
00:32 <Your_mom_arma> 9 mp
00:32 <Your_mom_arma> 3's
00:38 <z-man-home> Trunk compilation seems broken, Lucifer_arma, wrtlprnft, know anything?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: not me, other than wrtlprnft was working on the trunk earlier
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> what's broken?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: hmmm....
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> aha.  did you restart it after you put the playlist in the config?
00:39 <z-man-home> The configuration system. nSettingItem uses private stuff from tConfigItem
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> really?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> er
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> how?  (me and Luke-Jr are having a "discussion" aobut private members)
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> I *think* wrtlprnft was doing something with config, but I don't know that he was in the system itself.
00:41 <z-man-home> Well, it doesn't use them. It properly fails to compile. :)
00:41 <z-man-home> It's a callback function typedef that is used.
00:41 <z-man-home> Aww, anyway, it's an easy fix.
00:42 <Your_mom_arma> zman you where right about ztrick 
00:42 <z-man-home> hehe, ok. Time to get rid of that 'feature' :)
00:43 <Your_mom_arma> no luci i didnt restart it although i noticed that clears the prompt
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: I'm going to have to say from my googling that uPnP has enough penetration to support at most 20 hours of development time spent on supporting it ourselves
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: umm, if it crashed, the setting wasn't saved.  :)  Try again, but this time restart before starting the music.  So put in the playlist, quit, then restart and hit play.
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: there might be justification for more work on it, but most of what I found was "uPnP is great!  Everybody has it!".  So, nothing objective :)
00:44 -!- SuPeRTaRD [n=blah@adsl-71-145-139-15.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:45 <z-man-home> So you did a google fight between "uPnP rocks" and "uPnP sucks"?
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> and that "at most" figure is supposed to include supporting it over a couple of years, it assumes the underlying api we'd use that I linked is well-supported in and of itself
00:45 <Your_mom_arma> luci still crashed
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "uPnP rocks" "uPnP sucks"
00:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: uPnP rocks: 92400, uPnP sucks: 36000
00:46 <Luke-Jr> BTW, should engine noise block 0.3.0?
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: no, we decided that awhile back :)
00:46 <spidey|2> Congratulations, Spidey!
00:46 <spidey|2> Your IQ score is 106
00:46 <spidey|2> does that mean i'm smart or stupid?
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> slightly above average
00:46 <spidey|2> sweet
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> so you're not in the dumb half of the world :)
00:46 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: aww, I miss it =p
00:46 <spidey|2> :D
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I hope to bring it back in the next couple of months.  :)  0.3.2 will have it for sure, I suspect, if not it should probably block by then, but 0.3.1....depends on how quickly we make development releases.
00:47 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you know, 50% of the world is dumber than average... ;)
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's not quite true :)
00:47 <Luke-Jr> I know
00:47 <Luke-Jr> it'd be true w/ a median
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's fun to say, I know...
00:48 <Luke-Jr> but the dumber half won't know what a median is
00:48 <spidey|2> heh
00:48 <spidey|2> a median is?
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> spidey|2: what's a median?
00:48 <spidey|2> lmao
00:48 <Luke-Jr> in reality, I bet it's more like 90% are dumber than avg =p
00:48 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: still crashed
00:48 <spidey|2> something that seaperates something ;D
00:48 <spidey|2> like on the highway :p
00:48 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:48 <Luke-Jr> point in case
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: this sounds pretty bad, actually.
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> Any windows users here try to use the ingame music in the alpha?
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> besides Your_mom_arma...
00:49 <spidey|2> there's ingame music in alpha?
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> sorta...heh
00:49 <Luke-Jr> median
00:49 <Luke-Jr>      adj 1: relating to or constituting the middle value of an ordered
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             set of values (or the average of the middle two in an
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             even-numbered set); "the median value of 17, 20, and
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             36 is 20"; "the median income for the year was
00:49 <spidey|2> there's a windows alpha build?
00:49 <Luke-Jr>             $15,000" [syn: median(a), average]
00:49 <spidey|2> or wait,i think i got that
00:49 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> there's an ingame player, but you really have to put your own playlist in there to use it
00:50 <Luke-Jr> you do?
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I hit Next and Play
00:50 <Luke-Jr> and it plays fortresswalk
00:50 <Luke-Jr> no configuration
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> really?
00:50 <Luke-Jr> yep
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> that, uhhh, surprises me, haha
00:50 <Luke-Jr> hehe
00:50  * Lucifer_arma thought he disabled it
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> well ok then z-man-home, no reason to feel bad for including those in there.
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I was actually expecting that the bug was it didn't play when the match started
00:51 <Luke-Jr> eg, if no custom playlist, it used an internal one
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> there is a bug that it won't start playing when you join a game anymore that is probably another clobbered change from the past that I decided to blow off for now
00:51 <Luke-Jr> brb
00:51 <spidey|2> dude
00:51 <spidey|2> i didn't know there was a windows .3 build.....
00:51 <Vanhayes> spidey|2: I wouldn't put much stock into IQ tests, I took one a couple years back and got a 119.
00:51 <z-man-home> Hey, I get the crash already when I hit "Next".
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> you think we're releasing an actual versioned release, however unstable, without a windows release?  *that* would hae been a showstopper :)
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, while we're comparing cocks....
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:52 <spidey|2> this integrated graphics can handle that better than the one with nix can :/
00:52  * spidey|2 downloads it
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: you getting the crash in linux?!?
00:53 <z-man-home> May be a different crash :)
00:53 <z-man-home> But I hit the previously unbound "Next Track" button, and get an instant crash.
00:53 <spidey|2> Vanhayes, the last time i took one i got a 89
00:53 <spidey|2> i think
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> it might be, but as you know, pretty much everyone running off the trunk tht's not developers are in linux, and the music player's been there long enough to be fairly well tested
00:53 <spidey|2> and i was like 12
00:53 <Vanhayes> ya they arnt very reliable
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> even if I can't remember what I changed, haha
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> can you get a callstack?
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: can *you* get a callstack?
00:54 <Your_mom_arma> hmm?
00:54 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"]
00:54 <z-man-home> Well, it's a NULL pointer dereferencing of m_GameTrack
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> oh is that all it is
00:54 <z-man-home> Yes
00:54  * Lucifer_arma growls
00:55 <z-man-home> #0  0x0817412c in eMusicTrack::Next (this=0x0) at eMusicTrackSDLMixer.cpp:267
00:55 <z-man-home> #1  0x0816b8af in eSoundMixer::Music_next_song (x=1) at eSoundMixer.cpp:735
00:55 <z-man-home> #2  0x081b88fb in uActionGlobalFunc::GlobalAct (act=0x82d1500, x=1) at uInput.cpp:909
00:55 <Your_mom_arma> z-man-home: is there anyway to turn off the camera tilt when grinding?
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> part of my problem here is that my computer is seriously thrashed, so I can't build and test right now, and I can't fix it until next week or so
00:55 <z-man-home> Don't ask me, I didn't touch it.
00:56 <z-man-home> Well, I can add the NULL pointer check myself no problem.
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, that's a broken playlist thing
01:00 <Lucifer_arma>     if(! m_Playlist->empty() ) {  <--- line 267 of eMusicTrackSDLMixer.cpp
01:00 <z-man-home> Your_mom_arma: Maybe "Int. camera Movement: Off"?
01:00 <z-man-home> Well, but the this pointer at this point is already NULL.
01:00 <z-man-home> Look at the callstack function arguments.
01:01 <z-man-home> Music_next_song dereferences m_GameTrack, which is NULL.
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I see that.  so why does it go into the function then?
01:01 <z-man-home> Because C++ doesn't check for NULL pointers.
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> m_GameTrack is *never* supposed to be null
01:01 <Your_mom_arma> heh thanks zman
01:01 <z-man-home> That's for Wusses :)
01:02 <z-man-home> If it never is supposed to be NULL, it shouldn't be a plain pointer.
01:02 <z-man-home> Can't it be a regular member variable?
01:02 <spidey|2> well,my fps stay at 59 on this computer,on the other one (the nix) they drop to 27 or lower :(
01:02 <Lucifer_arma>     m_GameTrack = new eMusicTrack();  <--- in eSoundMixer::Init()
01:02  * z-man-home checks whether that bit is called
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's line 311
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose it can be a regular member variable.  Playlists can be quite large, and ultimately an eMusicTrack might be quite large, so I wanted it on the heap
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> and at the time (and even now, but at least now I know that I should look around a lot more) I had no clue what classes to use for smarter pointers :)
01:06 <z-man-home> Mix_OpenAudio returns 333618457, and ::Init() exits thereafter. It doesn't pass the creation.
01:06 <z-man-home> Maybe move the creation somewhere where it is always executed?
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, Mix_OpenAudio is supposed to return 0 when it's successful, anything else means something's broke
01:10 <spidey|2> heh
01:10 <spidey|2> tron made first in te most active projects in the caregory of "hack"
01:10 <spidey|2> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hack
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> can you change the Mix_OpenAudio call to have MIX_DEFAULT_FORMAT instead of AUDIO_whateveristhere ?
01:12 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: well, my soundcard isn't working half of the time
01:12 <z-man-home> I'll try
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> if that doesn't work, the null pointer checks need to be made.....
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> starting line 646 is where all the input handlers are
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> inside the switch() statement, right after case GRID_TRACK
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> there's 7 methods total there, pretty clearly named :)
01:15 <z-man-home> Still the same return value
01:15  * Lucifer_arma adds to his todo list "allow sound to be disabled"
01:16  * Lucifer_arma thought he'd already done that, must be early senility setting in.
01:16 <z-man-home> There are lots of other dereferencings, not only from the GUI functions, it seems.
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> 333618457  <--- is this -1 when a signed int?
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> there are, but the GUI ones are the dangerous ones.  If you know of a template or some other magic that lets you just fix it in one place, knock yourself out :)
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the GUI ones are the dangerous ones because those are the ones that actually get run
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma's crash is probably caused in the Update() method where the mode is supposed to be switched from GRID_TRACK to GUI_TRACK
01:18 <z-man-home> I'm just thinking that "a pointer that NEVER should be NULL" shouldn't be initialized only after initialization of something nonessential succeeded :)
01:19 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=3291 <- how armagetron looks to me right now
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> it's only the sound library failing to initialize, heh
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the alternative is to move the initialization to before that call...duh...
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> in fct, you should move the whole block starting from line 298 and ending at line 311 to right before that call
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> that block is probably independent enough to put even at the beginning of the init method if you really want
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> you need the tDirectories call on line 292 too
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> that's a beautiful lavendar there, mom
01:23 <Your_mom_arma> haha
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> what are the bar gauges?
01:25  * Lucifer_arma wants a circular gauge so he can make an analog clock
01:25 <Your_mom_arma> same here
01:27 <Your_mom_arma> brake rubber and speed i can never find a guage when i need to so the more i have the more likely i'll find it "you can never find the horn when your angry"
01:27 <Your_mom_arma> im still messing around with stuff the documentation is hard to parse and is missing pieces
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it hadn't even occured to me to make multiple gauges.  I just stuck my gauges up in the middle of the screen, and so far everyone that's used my cockpit says the gauges obstruct the view :)
01:29 <spidey|2> ...
01:29 <spidey|2> luci,how do you install a cycle mod :/
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> model, you mean?
01:30 <spidey|2> yea,make it look different
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> you're going to need a moviepack for that :)
01:30 <spidey|2> got one
01:30 <spidey|2> but i never could figure it out
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> you want to isntall the moviepack?
01:30 <spidey|2> yer
01:31 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: I'll handle this later. No time now.
01:31 <Your_mom_arma> unzip it into armagetronad/moviepack and turn moviepack on from misc
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks
01:32 <spidey|2> that's it?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I was looking for the wiki page on installing moviepacks :)
01:32 <Your_mom_arma> yep
01:32 <z-man-home> Moving the block removed the crashes, but there are memory leaks then. Maybe the uninitialization function needs a look, too.
01:32 <spidey|2> didn't work :/
01:32 <spidey|2> done tried it 
01:32 <Your_mom_arma> the textures are inside of /moviepack?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> frequently moviepacks are in zip files that contain a moviepack directory, so you'd unzip it in armagetronad instead
01:32 <spidey|2> yea,i put everything in /moviepack
01:33 <spidey|2> it didn't have a moviepack dir in the zip,so i made one :p
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Customizing_the_game
01:34 <spidey|2> read that
01:34 <spidey|2> it doesn't even try to load the movie pack,it uses the default one
01:35 <spidey|2> heh,nvm
01:35 <spidey|2> after i restarted it the third time it loaded it
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> which moviepack you running?
01:38 <spidey|2> the matrix one
01:38 <spidey|2> on the linux version of .3 i changed a setting that made the zone have transparent sides
01:39 <spidey|2> i can't remember which one it was,you know?
01:40 <spidey|2> ahh
01:40 <spidey|2> turn alpha blending off
01:40 <Your_mom_arma> yeah
01:41 <spidey|2> hmm
01:41 <spidey|2> in a certain view,there's 2 of everything
01:41 <spidey|2> the minimap/gauges
01:42 <Your_mom_arma> yeah incam
01:42 <spidey|2> no
01:42 <spidey|2> it's a overhead angeled view
01:42 <spidey|2> incam has only 1 of everything
01:47 <Your_mom_arma> luci whats that white bar do in your cockpit file?
01:51 <Your_mom_arma> spidey your in windows .3 alpha right?
01:52 <Your_mom_arma> play a local game and then hit esc and leave grid tell me if it takes you to the menu or crashes to desktop
01:55 <spidey|2> yea
01:55 <spidey|2> k
01:55 <spidey|2> sec
01:55 <spidey|2> nope
01:55 <spidey|2> doesn't crash
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: which bar is it?  I don't notice colors :)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the bar on the left is brake, the right is velocity, and under that is acceleration
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the top is fps, and I think that's all the bars I have
01:58 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180113.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> the crash seems to be happening on machines where sdl_mixer isn't able to initialize for some reason, and that error isn't handled very well at all
01:59 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508744C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:00 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> just like old times.. ;p
02:01 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> my team naturally won..
02:01 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl is now known as SuPeRTaRD
02:01 <Your_mom_arma> velocity
02:02 <Your_mom_arma> bbiab
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02:07 <Luke-Jr> some ideas
02:07 <Luke-Jr> 1. make tails disappear based on time, not length-- thus, faster means longer tails
02:07 <Luke-Jr> 2. a mode where your own walls can't kill you-- instead, you cut them short
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> 1 - I've been wanting for awhile
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> 2 - particularly neat if the part that's cut off responds to wall_delay
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> 2 - also neat if everyone grinding on the part of your wall that's cut is instantly killed :)
02:17 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-76-248.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 2a- what's wall_delay? :/
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 2b- optionally
02:18 <Luke-Jr> 1- is it difficult?
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> the one that determines how long your walls stay up after you die before being dropped
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how hard any of it is :)
02:18  * Luke-Jr notes it's not mentioned in language/english_base nor arma --doc
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> it might be called something else, and I'm just ass wrong on the name?
02:19 <Luke-Jr> well
02:19 <Luke-Jr> you'd die if they didn't drop immediately...
02:20 <Luke-Jr> 3. No-Wall zones where you cannot draw walls inside
02:20 <Luke-Jr> 4. Delete-Wall zones which delete your past walls (up to a certain length?) while inside
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> 3 is planned in philippe's zone model
02:21 <Luke-Jr> 5. Seperate effects out of zones, and apply to walls also
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, you didn't define cut.  I assumed like a knife :) .  An explosion of the wall could be used to cut too, and those would allow the wall delay thing to work
02:21 <Luke-Jr> 5 eg. Walls default to effect 'kill', but can be reassigned to 'delete-wall:unlimited length'
02:22  * Lucifer_arma wonders if walls should be remade into zone derivatives
02:22 -!- spidey|2 is now known as spidey|sleep
02:22 <Luke-Jr> Zone and Wall need a common parent, I think
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> besides eGameObject?  ;)
02:22 <Luke-Jr> Wall being a generic 2D instance
02:22 <Luke-Jr> eGameObject doesn't implement effects
02:22 <Luke-Jr> nor should it, I think
02:23 <Luke-Jr> wait, no
02:23 <Luke-Jr> Wall would be 1D
02:23 <Luke-Jr> Zone would be 2D
02:25 <Luke-Jr> non-death effects on a Wall depends on CSS-- in particular, an opaque flag
02:25 <Luke-Jr> opacity*
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02:28 <Your_mom_arma> so luci do you need a recording to fix the problem or is it related to the sound problem?
02:28 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's almost certainly the sound problem
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> how do sound effects sound to you?
02:29 <Your_mom_arma> the opening music works ingame i dont here anything then i hear a pop when i try to exit and it crashes
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> so no sound effects in game?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> what I suspect is that for people who don't have crashes, sound works fine, but for people who do have crashes, they'll report unusual sounds of varying sorts
02:32 <Your_mom_arma> pretty much
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> note that there's no cycle engine sound right now, you should still hear grinding, turning, explosions, an announcer that says 3,2,1, a whistle on Go!, and a zone spawn noise
02:33  * Lucifer_arma curses SDL's sound api.  It's not SDL_mixer's fault we don't get real error reporting!
02:40 <Luke-Jr> we need other announcer yells
02:41 <Luke-Jr> like um
02:41 <Luke-Jr> "Mega Kill"
02:41 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> YES.  We do.  :)
02:41 <Your_mom_arma> killing spree
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> There's a wiki page with a list, feel free to add whatever other announcer yells you want, maybe even with some text to explain the conditions under which they'll be used
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> It's in the development docs page somewhere
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: branched 0.3.0, the sound thingee tipped it over
02:43 <z-man> Ok, based on the current trunk code?
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: the branch removes any urgency you might feel, if you'd like, and I'll get it next week and we'll shoot for next weekend for 0.3.0 (not this coming weekend, that's my calc test)
02:43 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft ok :)
02:43 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
02:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you make announcer yells, I presume? do it in trunk for 0.3.1 =p
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> the current announcer was made by voltsubito, we need a new announcer and it won't be my geeky whiny voice
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: yes, based on current trunk code
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> I got armagetronad, build, and winlibs.  Do I need anything else over there?
02:45 <z-man> build_eclipse would be nice. Why didn't you just branch everyting?
02:45 <z-man> (in /root/armagetronad)
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> ummmmm
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> hm
02:45 <Your_mom_arma> is multiple custom cams capable of making .3?
02:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: um, branches should just be a copy of trunk
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> don't know?  ;)
02:45 <Your_mom_arma> (are)
02:45 <Luke-Jr> um
02:45 <Luke-Jr> why do we have a 0.3.0 tag?
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: unlikely, we need to think a bit how to do that, I think.
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> mistake?  people make those from time to time
02:46 <Luke-Jr> so delete it? =p
02:46 <z-man> Sure.
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> we were going to check with the Historian before deleting it and see if he wanted it bronzed.
02:47 <Luke-Jr> it's still in history =p
02:48 <Luke-Jr> svn rm https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0 && svn cp https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0    
02:49 <z-man> No, the branch is fine.
02:49 <z-man> I think, haven't checked it out.
02:49 <Luke-Jr> it's missing a bit
02:49 <Luke-Jr> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.3.0/
02:50 <z-man> Oh, that.
02:50 <z-man> I misread the second command, thought you wanted to copy the tag over.
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> -r 4887  <--- if you want to redo the branch for my incompetence, please use this revision :)
02:51 <z-man> And it's complete now.
02:51  * Lucifer_arma isn't sure why he's being anal about that
02:51 <Luke-Jr> branches/tags should always be copies of trunk
02:51 <Luke-Jr> consistency
02:51 <z-man> ok, I'll redo it.
02:52 <Luke-Jr> especially here, since it might make a difference in future RCS migrations
02:52 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-76-248.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
02:52 <Luke-Jr> sjRCSjSCMj
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> no good reason to worry about the revision, I think I'm just being paranoid again
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's the latest revision on the trunk :)
02:53 <Luke-Jr> so, trunk HEAD
02:53 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, doing it piecemeal like I was, it did kinda make a difference, if someone committed to the trunk in the meantime
02:54 <Lucifer_arma> unlikely to break anything, but, well, hmmmm......
02:54 <z-man> It could mess with merging.
02:54 <z-man> And copying the whole is actually cheaper than copying the bits :)
02:55 <z-man> You can also svn cp <local checkout> <URL of branch>
02:55 <z-man> That starts the branch at the exact state of your local checkout, that you previously verified to be in a good state :)
02:56 <z-man> Branch restarted. Nice thing is, svn update only gets the new bits. No need to get fresh checkouts.
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool, so I've gotta get to bed before I fall down.  7 hours sleep in 2 days, this isn't boding well for the rest of the week.  'night.
03:10 <Luke-Jr> o
03:10 <Luke-Jr> I just bought 2 switches =p
03:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan_ru@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:10 <Luke-Jr> and a new server
03:11 <Luke-Jr> hopefully aabeta will see a performance increase
03:11 <Luke-Jr> new server is Dual 550 MHz (PowerEdge 6400)
03:42 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
04:27  * Luke-Jr thinks we should just treat Windows players/developers as second-class >:p
04:27 <Luke-Jr> next time there's a FPS optimization, let's not have it apply to Win
04:35 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: huh ?
04:37 <joda_bot> I guess you're just referening to OpenGL problems, which are mostly driver based ... so it's rather Windows wide range of hardware (and also problematic OpenGL drivers) than the OS ;)
04:49 <Luke-Jr> nah
04:49 <Luke-Jr> I'm referring to sabotaging the game in Win
04:49 <Luke-Jr> #ifdef __WIN32__ makeslower()
04:49 <Luke-Jr> =p
05:05 <Luke-Jr> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
05:05 <Luke-Jr> loading server list
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06:09 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-198.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
06:09 <madmax|pt> hello
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06:34 <wrtlprnft> z-man: uh, sorry about the compillation error, it didn't fail for me. Must be a bug in gcc 3.4...
06:36 <wrtlprnft> spidey|sleep: the 
06:36 <wrtlprnft> oops
06:36 <spidey|sleep> ?
06:36 <wrtlprnft> spidey|sleep: that obe bug you reported is fixed
06:36 -!- spidey|sleep is now known as spidey|2
06:37 <spidey|2> obe?
06:37 <wrtlprnft> the one with both incam and normal gauges appearing
06:37 <spidey|2> oh
06:37 <wrtlprnft> s/obe//
06:37  * wrtlprnft just woke up
06:37 <spidey|2> just thought you might wanna know,i don't use that view anyways :p
06:37  * spidey|2 did too
06:38 <wrtlprnft> that view is kinda new and definitely worth a try as an alternitive to smartcam :)
06:38 <wrtlprnft> it's new
06:39 <wrtlprnft> s/new/neat/
06:39 <wrtlprnft> o_O
06:41 <spidey|2> lol
06:41  * spidey|2 wants to go back to sleep
07:12 <spidey|2> http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8226/untitled1zo.jpg
07:12 <spidey|2> i love that font
07:13 <spidey|2> umm
07:13 <spidey|2> what's the big yellow line
07:13 <spidey|2> lol
07:14 <wrtlprnft> what the...?
07:14 <spidey|2> not sure
07:15 <wrtlprnft> interesting lagometer...
07:15 <spidey|2> i don't think that was there when i took the shot
07:15 <wrtlprnft> o_O
07:15 <spidey|2> yea
07:15 <wrtlprnft> that's for some opengl guru i guess...
07:15 <spidey|2> my lag meters are big
07:15 <wrtlprnft> no clue what's wrong
07:16 <spidey|2> nothing's wrong,heh
07:16 <spidey|2> i was showing the font i love
07:16 <spidey|2> xD
07:16 <wrtlprnft> aaaah
07:16 <spidey|2> but i don't know where that big yellow line came from
07:16 <wrtlprnft> so that's not the normal font?
07:16 <spidey|2> lmao
07:16 <spidey|2> no,it's font_type 4
07:16 <wrtlprnft> i thought that was some rendering error
07:16 <spidey|2> nah
07:16 <spidey|2> looked fine when i took it
07:17 <spidey|2> might be from converting it to a jp
07:17 <spidey|2> jpg
07:17 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: i don't see a yellow line anyways
07:17 <wrtlprnft> it's white
07:17 <spidey|2> what tha
07:17 <spidey|2> how can you not see that!!??
07:17 <spidey|2> it's like almost over the bike
07:18 <spidey|2> it goes weird through the lag meter,then has a white dot
07:18 <spidey|2> in the middle
07:19 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/tronfont.png
07:19 <spidey|2> yea...
07:19 <spidey|2> that big ass yellow line
07:19 <spidey|2> that goes up
07:19 <spidey|2> then right
07:20 <spidey|2> then down
07:20 <spidey|2> you don't see it?
07:20 <wrtlprnft> it's white!
07:20 <spidey|2> is not!!
07:20 <wrtlprnft> something's wrong with the colors on your screen methinks
07:20 <spidey|2> noooooooooooooo
07:20 <madmax|pt> its a bit yellow
07:20 <spidey|2> see
07:20 <spidey|2> pwn
07:22 <wrtlprnft> o_O
07:23 <madmax|pt> it is, i confirmed with the eyedropper in photoshop
07:23 <madmax|pt> lol
07:23 <spidey|2> see
07:23 <madmax|pt> its this color actually: E6F69D
07:23 <spidey|2> your colors are broke :p
07:23 <madmax|pt> lol
07:23 <spidey|2> xD
07:24 <wrtlprnft> second
07:24 <spidey|2> you got a high contrast setting wrtl ?
07:25 <madmax|pt> its something like Pantone 393 C
07:25 <madmax|pt> lol
07:25 <madmax|pt> solid coated btw
07:26 <wrtlprnft> nope
07:26 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/tronfont1.png
07:26 <spidey|2> yes
07:26 <spidey|2> that's yellow
07:26 <spidey|2> you're color blind :p
07:26 <spidey|2> that lag meter is white
07:27 <spidey|2> not that line that shouldn't be there :p
07:28 <madmax|pt> wrtlprnft, did you saved the image or just made a screenshot of it? something altered between spidey's and yours
07:29 <wrtlprnft> i was making a screenshot of my browser :P
07:29 <madmax|pt> lol, nvm
07:29 <wrtlprnft> nice cockpit, your_mom has
07:29 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=3291
07:29 <spidey|2> Sorry but you are not authorized to view or download this Attachment
07:29 <spidey|2> lol
07:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, log in on the forums?
07:30 <wrtlprnft> that image is worth it
07:30 <spidey|2> nice
07:31 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:31 <spidey|2> see
07:31 <spidey|2> somethingl ike that wouldn't kill my fps so bad
07:32 <wrtlprnft> what is killing your fps? the cockpit, the font, the sound?
07:32 <spidey|2> the font i think
07:33 <spidey|2> or maybe all the text onscreen
07:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, try the following:
07:33 <wrtlprnft> COCKPUT_FILE asdf
07:33 <wrtlprnft> that disables the cockpit
07:33 <wrtlprnft> (then reset it, of course)
07:33 <wrtlprnft> FONT_TYPE 0
07:34 <wrtlprnft> for the font
07:34 <wrtlprnft> see which one gives you a boost
07:34 <spidey|2> k
07:34 <spidey|2> cockput or cockpit?
07:34 <wrtlprnft> second of course ;)
07:34 <spidey|2> :p
07:35 <spidey|2> :s
07:35 <spidey|2> now there's no onscreen text
07:35 <spidey|2> or gauges
07:36 <madmax|pt> "that disables the cockpit" ?
07:36 <spidey|2> no
07:36 <spidey|2> it disableds the gauges :p
07:36 <spidey|2> and everything else but the talking
07:41 <madmax|pt> any1 know the link to that feature in flickr that you would draw something in a small square and it would search for pictures according to that pattern?
07:41 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: that IS the cockpit
07:44 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
07:44 <spidey|2> wrtlprnft, i sooooooooo knew that :s
07:44  * spidey|2 trips z-man-work on his way in
07:45 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: so, what about your framerate
07:45 <spidey|2> i would tell you,but i can't see it :p
07:46 <wrtlprnft> ackackackack
07:46 <spidey|2> lmfao
07:46 <wrtlprnft> make a cockpit file that just has a fps meter?
07:47 <z-man-work> way out, please.
07:47  * spidey|2 trips z-man-work on his way out
07:47  * z-man-work is going home and spidey can trip him again later
07:47 <spidey|2> :D
07:48  * madmax|pt is away: Lunch
07:48 <wrtlprnft> that was a short time of working...
07:53  * wrtlprnft finds spidey|2 waiting next to z-man-work's door at home, preparing to trip him. wrtlprnft kicks spidey|2's ass from behind and runs away
07:53 <spidey|2> lol
07:54 <spidey|2> hey wrtl
07:54  * spidey|2 is looking at your cockpit file
07:55 <wrtlprnft> bb in 20 minutes, sorry
07:55 <spidey|2> k
07:55 <wrtlprnft> but talk, I'll read it in my backlog
07:55 <wrtlprnft> unlile Luke-Jr, wrtlprnft reads his chatlog
07:55 <wrtlprnft> *unlike
07:55 <spidey|2> <Cell><GameData data="enemies" /></Cell>
07:55 <spidey|2> to add color to something like that
07:56 <spidey|2> would i add the hex in that line?
07:58 <spidey|2> ah
07:59 <spidey|2> nvm,i was looking at the wrong cockpit file
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08:08  * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:20:49)
08:17 <spidey|2> :/
08:17 <spidey|2> wrtlprnft, how i get the cockpit back :\
08:18 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:19 <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:19 <wrtlprnft> read the message when you change settings ;)
08:20 <wrtlprnft> spidey|2: to add color: <Cell><Text value="0xff000" /><GameData data="enemies" /></Cell>
08:24 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
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08:25 <spidey|2> k
08:25 <spidey|2> how do i reload your cockpit?
08:25 <spidey|2> lol
08:25 <wrtlprnft> mine?
08:25 <spidey|2> oh
08:25 <spidey|2> yea
08:26 <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE wrtlprnft/testfile-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:26  * wrtlprnft should really change the name of this cockpit...
08:26 <wrtlprnft> it's not in testing anymore ;)
08:26 <spidey|2> whoa
08:27 <wrtlprnft> press the first cockpit key tu turn off the map
08:27 <spidey|2> that's the one with virtical gauges and the big ass map
08:27 <spidey|2> lol
08:27 <wrtlprnft> *to
08:27 <wrtlprnft> and the second one to dim the rendering
08:28 <spidey|2> which one is one with the small map?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> the default one?
08:28 <spidey|2> yea
08:28 <wrtlprnft> and lucifer's one
08:28 <spidey|2> ah
08:29 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard
08:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:19:15] <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:29 <spidey|2> lol
08:29 <spidey|2> failed to load the lucifer\sick
08:30 <wrtlprnft> and Lucifer's: COCKPIT_FILE Lucifer/sick/Playroom-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:30 <wrtlprnft> and the "classic" one: cockpit_file wrtlprnft/classic-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:30 <spidey|2> ah
08:30 <spidey|2> here we go
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that's all there is in the included resources
08:31 <spidey|2> erm
08:31 <spidey|2> that's not the one either
08:31 <wrtlprnft> I'd like to include your_mom's, too
08:31 <spidey|2> you saw the one i had before didn't you?
08:31 <wrtlprnft> the one on the screenshot?
08:31 <spidey|2> yea
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that was the standard one
08:31 <spidey|2> ohhh
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard --without last
08:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:31:48] <wrtlprnft> that was the standard one
08:32 <wrtlprnft> gah
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with standard --without last --with aacockpit
08:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [08:19:15] <wrtlprnft> COCKPIT_FILE Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
08:32 <wrtlprnft> #uptime
08:32 <armabot> spidey: 15:32:13 up 53 days, 15:37, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
08:33 <spidey|2> ningo
08:33 <spidey|2> thanks :D
08:33 <wrtlprnft> yw
08:33 <wrtlprnft> make your own one if you don't like the provided ones :P
08:33 <wrtlprnft> and don't forget them to the official resource repository *sic*
08:34 <wrtlprnft> *don't forget to commit them
08:34  * wrtlprnft should get more sleep
08:49 <GodTodd> hmmm....how come it won't load my playlist?....i must be doing something stupid heh
08:57 <spidey|2> z-man-home, you're the coach right?
08:57 <z-man-home> Well, yes.
08:57 <spidey|2> lmao
08:57 <z-man-home> But it's quite hopeless
08:57 <z-man-home> MAMA shows no sign of listening
08:57 <spidey|2> you should have told them who you was,then kicked 'em all xD
08:58  * z-man-home feels like taking names
08:59 <spidey|2> it was psyko that polled you :p
09:02 <z-man-home> And the vote was quite unanimous
09:03  * spidey|2 voted against xD
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09:11 <z-man-home> Ok, perhaps it's better to just call yourself "Coach" when coaching, most players don't really read names fully.
09:11  * z-man-home wonders why the imposters make the effort to exchange l for 1 if "Deine X" is mistaken for "X's Coach"
09:12 <spidey|2> lol
09:18 <madmax|pt> z-man-home, did you actually did something that worth the poll?
09:18 <z-man-home> I chose the wrong name :)
09:18 <spidey|2> lol
09:19 <madmax|pt> i just had someone turning back to the gold zone (while i defended) for 5 rounds
09:19 <madmax|pt> i said "dont turn back" some times
09:19 <madmax|pt> and...
09:19 <madmax|pt> nothing
09:19 <madmax|pt> heh
09:20 <madmax|pt> i think new players get amazed of whats happening and dont quite pay attention to the chat
09:20 <madmax|pt> lol
09:21 <spidey|2> lol
09:27 <z-man-home> I wonder whether there is room for a "driving school" feature where the coach can control the player's bike in emergency situations :)
09:27 <z-man-home> bbl
09:27 <madmax|pt> lol
09:27 <madmax|pt> that would be interesting
09:27 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508744C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:28 <madmax|pt> #weather Lisbon
09:28 <armabot> madmax|pt: Temperature: 72°F / 22°C | Humidity: 83% | Pressure: 29.80in / 1009hPa | Conditions: Light Thunderstorms and Rain | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 8mph / 13km/h | Updated: 3:00 PM WEST; Chance of Rain. High:77 � F. / 25 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.; Rain. High:75 � F. / 24 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:77 � F. / 25 � C.; Chance of (1 more message)
09:28 <madmax|pt> #more
09:28 <armabot> madmax|pt: Rain. Low:66 � F. / 19 � C.;
09:29 <madmax|pt> Light Thunderstorms my ass
09:29 <madmax|pt> lol
09:34 <madmax|pt> #weather Oporto
09:34 <armabot> madmax|pt: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "Oporto".
09:35 <madmax|pt> #weather Porto
09:35 <armabot> madmax|pt: Error: Could not find weather information.
09:45 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180156.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
09:48 <madmax|pt> hello Vanhayes 
09:48 <Vanhayes> Hey madmax
10:04 <[Xpert]DarkStar> does it make sense to have TFTs with <16ms?
10:09  * joda_bot thinks newbies just need much rubber to think about their moves :)
10:10 <joda_bot> [Xpert]DarkStar: Read Tomshardware about that, if you accept the losing some colors
10:12 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hmm
10:12 <joda_bot> http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/27/the_spring_2006_lcd_collection/page45.html
10:12 <joda_bot> Current recommendations
10:13 <joda_bot> Also have a look at http://www.prad.de/en/
10:13 <joda_bot> If you have picked your model, they usually have good customer reviews of most popular tfts
10:14 <joda_bot> even some exotic ones ;), but you'll need luck
10:15 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hrrmm...
10:15 <[Xpert]DarkStar> that doesn't answer my question
10:15 <[Xpert]DarkStar> does it make sense to have less than 16ms?
10:16 <[Xpert]DarkStar> i'd say no...
10:16 <[Xpert]DarkStar> iirc the human eye has 25fps
10:16 <[Xpert]DarkStar> so that is 1 frame every 33.33 ms
10:16 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-138-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
10:16 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hi
10:16 <G5_Ger> Hi
10:17 <madmax|pt> hi G5_Ger 
10:18 <G5_Ger> Hi Madmax
10:19 <joda_bot> [Xpert]DarkStar: It even makes sense to have more than 70 fps (because you get a blurred impression of the motion)
10:20 <joda_bot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The reason you don't notice the problem with films is that they already contain motion blur (which you will might miss using a LCD at 60Hz with Armagetron)
10:22 <joda_bot> [Xpert]DarkStar: http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
10:29 <G5_Ger> Test 1 2 3
10:29 <Vanhayes> what are you testing?
10:30 <G5_Ger> I activated voice output in irc client. Now I can play fullscreen and still listen to irc.
10:32 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-10-198.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
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11:22 <k> Is trunk still not compiling on Windows with Code::Blocks?  I can compile the 0.3.0 tarball, but not trunk.
11:22 <k> Just curious if it is just my setup or not.
11:24 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-138-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:32 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: this is the longest birthday ever
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> k: can't answer that, no windows here
11:53  * Lucifer_arma wonders if k gets every line with a k highlighted in it
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> so if I say ok, does it get highlighted?
11:54 <z-man> k: last time I checked, it worked from the trunk
11:54 <z-man> But I was using the RC2 of code::blocks, no nightly
11:54 <z-man> and of course, the tarball was the product of that :)
12:03 <k> Luciifer_arma: nope.  haven't set up highlighting.
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> :)
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> highlighting = very useful.  :)  I get on-screen display for the stuff that gets highlighted, similar to how an IM client works
12:04  * Lucifer_arma likes that feature a lot
12:06 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-138-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
12:06 <k> z-man: I think I tried RC2 as well.  I just grabbed the 0.3.0 branch from svn.  Going to see if it compiles.
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: what are the chances the forbid data source thing can be turned into a way players can disable gauges?  kinda like what we have in 0.2.8 for turning off hud gauges...
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft what are the chances the forbid data source thing can be turned into a way players can disable gauges?  kinda like what we have in 0.2.8 for turning off hud gauges...
12:06 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
12:07 <k> still compiles fine in both RC2 and Nightly.
12:19 <k> makedist.bat doesn't work in branches/0.3.0 on a fresh checkout.  The mkdir commands are REMed out and the mkdir command for the dist/ directory is missing.
12:19 <Lucifer_arma> add to the list of requirements for a tracker a field that says "Blocking release of <release>"
12:21 <joda_bot> k: I updated the docs on that
12:21 <joda_bot> I just changed the order
12:21 <joda_bot> Previously: use makedist, compile and run makedist again
12:21 <k> ah.  ok.
12:22 <joda_bot> Now: compile (code blocks creates directories) and run makedist copies / updates the files
12:22 <joda_bot> I haven't updated the wiki yet
13:09 <G5_Ger> Is there a way I can make other player's name disapear faster?
13:10 <Vanhayes> you could make them not show up at all if u wanted
13:12 <G5_Ger> I like to know who is who but then the names are blocking my view (esp. during start)
13:14 <MaZuffeR> change FADEOUT_NAME_DELAY to whatever you want
13:14 <joda_bot> Quote: FADEOUT_NAME_DELAY 5.0   # Time the player names are shown. Set to 0 if you don't want to show them at all or -1 if you want to show them always.
13:15 <joda_bot> ah MaZuffeR beat me ;)
13:15 <MaZuffeR> :P
13:16 <Vanhayes> where would I put a cockpit file I made, If I wanted other people be able to use it?
13:16 <G5_Ger> Ok, thanks. Next time u may scream at me: RTFM
13:18 <joda_bot> Vanhayes: you can upload it to resource.armagetronad.net (not sure how though)
13:23 <joda_bot> Vanhayes: http://beta.armagetronad.net/addmaps.php
13:24 <Vanhayes> Thx joda_bot 
13:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: I can't login into the wiki :(
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: joda_bot can't login to the wiki :(
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: then there's a wiki page somewhere that tells you how the url is constructed.  I hope Luke-Jr's upload script outputs a "use <this> filepath to use the resource", but don't know that it does
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> also, you're invited to make a cockpit page on the wiki to go with the moviepack list and put some screenshots of your cockpit on it :)
13:28 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: can you put this link http://beta.armagetronad.net/addmaps.php 
13:28 <joda_bot> on this page: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Resource_repository&action=edit
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> that page doesn't exist?
13:30 <joda_bot> right it's linked from: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Playing_Maps
13:30 <joda_bot> I just did not find any information on howto add stuff to the repositiory
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know if this page belongs or not, the resource repository information is buried in the map tutorial afaik
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> but I added your link and put a todo on te page :)
13:31 <joda_bot> fine
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> #message Luke-Jr can you deal with this page?  http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Resource_repository  I don't know if it belongs or not, or anything like that, but joda_bot pointed out that we don't have a page to tell people about it and what to do with it
13:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> #message Luke-Jr at the very least, it would be nice if it had some information to tell people how to use resources on the repository.  :)  If there's another page for it already, then this needs to be changed to a redirect.
13:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
13:33  * Lucifer_arma wonders why joda_bot can't login to the wiki
13:33 <joda_bot> #message guru3 Login/registration failed. Please do not edit the two additional fields. If you use a password manager, please fill out the form manually one time to make it learn the new fields. Thanks.
13:33 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
13:33 <joda_bot> :|
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, it's interpreting you as a spammer.  Don't spam the wiki!
13:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: does your login page show "You must have cookies enabled to log in to..." ?
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> there's hidden password fields on the page that spambots fill in but regular users don't
13:34 <joda_bot> lol... used tab to fill field might have filled that
13:34 <joda_bot> wait
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> hey, good, it's blocking me too
13:34 <joda_bot> :(
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> yes, I get the "You must have cookies enabled" message.  It doesn't mean you don't have cookies enabled.
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: guru3 looks like maybe the spamblocker code has a few problems?
13:35 <joda_bot> ok
13:36 <guru3> i'm really not sure
13:36  * Lucifer_arma wonders if that also accounts for some of the general decrease in wiki traffic
13:36 <guru3> i haven't done anything to the wikiw
13:36 <joda_bot> need a IP ?
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, don't logout unless you don't mind being locked out :)
13:36 <guru3> i don't know
13:36 <guru3> i can't do anything with the wiki
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I'm using Konqueror, don't know what Joda's using
13:36 <guru3> i'm just waiting for lucifer to fix his shiz
13:37  * guru3 cleverly places the blame on someone else
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> :)  I'll get it fixed soon, hopefully.  My laptop is totally thrashed right now, though.  :(
13:37 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: z-man wrtlprnft: What do you think will new SVN users tend to checkout ?
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm stuck in the t2 partition I made for the article I wrote, and my Kubuntu partition is totally thrashed.
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> well, they should switch to the 0.3.0 branch until 0.3.0 gets released, then go back to the trunk.  :)
13:38 <joda_bot> I think perhaps we should work inside branches and keep head as a working version (latest running dev release ?)
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> or do you mean for working?
13:38 <guru3> now, time to watch bleach
13:38 <joda_bot> no not working
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> just people that want to use the latest development version?
13:39 <joda_bot> right
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> they should use the 0.3.0 branch *at this moment*
13:39 <joda_bot> It's easier for them to checkout head , isn't it ?
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> if work gets done in the trunk before 0.3.0 goes out, they have to choose if they want to test 0.3.0 from the branch or switch to the trunk
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> but right at this moment, 0.3.0 branch is identical to the trunk, afaik.  :)
13:40 <joda_bot> I know how it is right now
13:40 <joda_bot> I just ask if it would make sense to do it the other way around ?
13:41 <joda_bot> Perhaps even keep HEAD equal to the latest release (later) and branch for the next development version
13:41 <joda_bot> not sure if this makes sense
13:41 <joda_bot> it's more for future work than now
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh.  this is a conversation we've had a few times already.  :)  Luke-Jr wanted to organize the svn repository like that
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's not what we really want to do, but here's the thing
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> the trunk needs to always build both server and client, so you need to test building the server with whatever work you do
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> for most things, it's not a big deal
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> for some things, the work you want to do is pretty extensive in an area and you would prefer not to be tied down with the requirement that the trunk build and not segfault on start
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> there are some small rules in addition, like CODELEVEL settings and stuff
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, for those kinds of work, you can and should create your own branch to do it
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> then merge when you're ready to merge, at which point you should have your branch meeting the regular trunk requirements
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> we branch for stable release series, and from that branch we branch for actual releases
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> so there's a 0.2.8 branch, then an,, etc.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the branch for the release series is where all the stabilizing work gets done, the actual release branches are tags, but svn treats them as branches
13:45 <joda_bot> that would remain, except that version branches are created earlier
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> for 0.3.0, this is new to us this development series thing.  :)  So we had some discussion on whether or not to have a stabilizing branch,
13:45 <joda_bot> e.g. start working on 0.4. then branch it
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> and in the end I created one because it was needed
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, we're working on the next version in the trunk
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> next version is Bacchus.  :)  I hate to be anal about codenames, but there's some discussion on whether or not Bacchus will be 0.4 or 1.0
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> so the trunk represents Bacchus, and the development series generally comes out of the trunk
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> we'll tag each development release at the very least, some we might be able to release straight off the trunk, some we'll release from a branch off the trunk where the head of the branch represents the release we made
13:47 <joda_bot> whatever, to make it clear: I suggest to branch atleast for any new major version and merge it to head once it's stable
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> right, that's what we already do
13:47  * z-man thinks we should make more crappy stable releases, that would help the development series :)
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> z-man's been making regular merges to the trunk from the 0.2.8 branch :)
13:48  * Lucifer_arma thinks we should have been a lot clearer in what the development series is :)
13:48  * joda_bot thinks we should be more happy about comments and say sure will be fixed ;)
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> now I want to make a book post about what it's for and why it's ok for 0.3.0 to suck compared to 0.2.8, but I'm going to feel like I'm just beating down comments about it
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bite the bullet and do it anyway, kind ahas to be done....  :(
13:49 <joda_bot> this includes myself being perhaps to fast in telling people it's a dev release
13:49  * Lucifer_arma also thinks we're seeing a shakedown of users that don't actually want to do the things the development series is for
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> you know, people that thought they wanted to help with the development release, and then saw what that actually meant and backed away
13:51  * Lucifer_arma thought that reminding people it was a development release would be comforting, but it seems to have had the reverse effect
13:51  * Lucifer_arma feels secure knowing he should never pursue a political career
13:51 <joda_bot> perhaps the restrictions should be more relaxed, e.g. just garant them more priveledges if they upgrade to latest development release once a month ?
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> what privileges?
13:52 <joda_bot> what ever the Q&A team should get
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> weren't you the one that said the QA team was too pwerful if they could veto a release?
13:52 <joda_bot> I guess it's better to have 10 loose testers than none
13:53  * Lucifer_arma notes we have probably at least 10 non-developers running from the trunk that will continue to run from the trunk :)
13:53 <joda_bot> sounds good, how many different OS and how many use standard install procedures ? ;)
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> all linux, afaik.  :(
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a lot of knee-jerk reaction to the camera.  I'm getting sold pretty well on it being a better camera.
13:54 <joda_bot> It's the most sensitve part of the game
13:55 <joda_bot> or one ;)
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> but then, maybe this will all turn out for the better when the knee-jerkers don't check out 0.3.1 and the people that do will be very helpful
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'll admit my game suffered when I started using meriton's stuff
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> but I've assimilated it now, and my game no longer suffers because of it, and I've made quite a few tactical decisions differently because the information I had to make it with was different
13:56 <Vanhayes> Hmm did Bugfarm fortress get a new Change?
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> I can't tell you yet if my game's better or if the annoyance factor is higher or lower, but I think I"m going to reach a point where I'll say my game is better and the camera is less annoying
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> Rhapsody is coming on that server...  ;)
13:57 <Vanhayes> u will be a spectator
13:57 <MaZuffeR> Vanhayes: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4651
13:57 <Vanhayes> Ah I see
13:58 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: made a screenshot of your cockpit yet?  I want to see it, but don't have a working client right now :)
13:58 <Vanhayes> I have a few screen shots but no where to post them, unless you want them on the forums?
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> sure, anywhere's fine, really.  Post in the alpha thread, though.  :)  You know, so people see why the release is there instead of why they don't think it should be there :)
13:59 <Vanhayes> hmm should there be 2 join blus team and 2 join gold team options?
13:59 <Vanhayes> ok
14:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-9-146.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-196-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, z-man, I had a question :)
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> did you build with joystick support, by any chance?
14:02 <joda_bot> Windows has joystick support
14:02 <joda_bot> I've not tested it though
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  I think the linux default is to build with joystick support, but I don't remember exactly
14:02 <joda_bot> z-man: about the create new team, can we split the functions into create new team and join any team ?
14:03 <joda_bot> or create a new team and "I want to play" ;)
14:03 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: also, :) , are the scripts you use to run your servers in svn?  If not, can they be put there somewhere?
14:04 <Lucifer_arma> zmanzmanzman  (read it like "mommymommymommy")
14:04 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: but that doesn't trigger highlighting :)
14:05 <z-man> Umm, no, no joystick support
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> can you add a search for "mommy" that does?  ;)
14:05 <z-man> Should I have done that?
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, in hindsight, yes, and the next alpha yes, sorry I didn't think about it earlier
14:05 <z-man> I can put the scripts into svn into my private section, no problem, but they're really special
14:05 <z-man> I totally forgot about it
14:06 <z-man> and I'm not really happy about the implementation, to be honest
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, it would be nice to generalize them a bit so we can make it easier for some of the rest of us to run similar servers for testing
14:06 <z-man> if it's still hacking the SDL_K count
14:06  * z-man is actually watching Germany vs Poland
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> and I thought it would be nice to have it as a regular thing for server admins to use so their players can give them messages
14:06 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-soccer
14:07 <z-man-soccer> Oh, you mean the BUG parsing part
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, Luke-Jr hasn't screwed with joystick support in awhile, he's waiting for the general input system change that's scheduled sometime after the gGame factoring
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, the bug parsing and the automatic rebuilding is what I'm after.  Stuff I could theoretically do pretty quickly but you've already got going :)
14:07 <z-man-soccer> joda_bot: yes, in the long run, that would be nice, make it two functions
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you shoudl just post them to the forums (after editing out any personal info, of course) and I'll get them from there and fool with it
14:08 <z-man-soccer> Naa, svn is the perfect place. I'll put them up.
14:09 <z-man-soccer> But after the World Cup Match :) that demands my full attention now.
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'm thinking about my next server and I'd like it setup to collect bug reports, too, with automated rebuilding
14:09  * z-man-soccer turns off the laptop's sound now
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> of course, you have your bet with sab, right?  ;)
14:09 <z-man-soccer> Right :)
14:09 <z-man-soccer> I'm hoping the Neds get eliminated early, because if they don't, I'm screwed :)
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:10  * Lucifer_arma remembers thinking the same thing about Team Somethingsomething
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> (coincidentally led by a dutchman)
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14:43 <Vanhayes> Lucifer_arma: Pics of my cockpit are on the forums now if you wanted to take a look : http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=60921#60921
14:47 <z-man-soccer> Gaa, still 0-0
14:51 <z-man-soccer> #later tell joda_bot of course, making the one menu option two would be your job.
14:51 <armabot> z-man-soccer: The operation succeeded.
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm of mixed feelings about having the hud map being a toggle :)
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I should just try it and see how it works out
14:52 <Vanhayes> If u put the toggled button close to your usual input layout is is pretty easy
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's not the mechanics I'm thinking about.  :)
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> Ok, I use it for tactical display on fortress.  maybe you've noticed how useful the map is for that?
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm not looking for my position, I'm looking at player positions, relative strengths, and assessing the tactical situation
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> frequently I notice when I'm getting stalked that way, too.  :)  Very important for goalie.
14:55 <Vanhayes> yes But i find it can get distracting if it is always there
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm thinking, I have to decide to look at the map, hit a key, then look at it.  As I have it now, I don't have to decide to look at it,
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> I scan it the same way I scan gauges in my car
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> I like the idea, I think I'm just going to have to try it and see how it works for me.
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> now, I'll gladly grant you that having it in the lower-right corner makes it pretty useless.  Your eyes have to move too far to find it, then you have to focus attention on it to read it.
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> I used to crash a lot because I was looking at the map.  :)  That went away after I moved it to the middle.
14:58 <Vanhayes> ya I might make mine smaller and move the speed guage around so it is in the middle
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> well, you offer an interesting solution to a problem I don't have yet, though.
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> I want to change the map to allow it to show only a certain area around your cycle, orient it so your cycle is always pointing up, and use it as a radar
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> with that setup, I can switch to incam and have a good immediate view of surroundings (the reason I use smartcam in the first place)
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> but then I lose my tactical display.  I was considering just laying another small map on the radar and having a toggle that switched between them,
15:00 <Vanhayes> yes that would make things a lot easier, so u wouldnt have to search for yourslef on the map
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> but having a larger tac display makes sense
15:01 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: The map should be blockable by the server ;)
15:01 <Lucifer_arma> well, the fancy changes to make it act like a radar don't eliminate the problem that you need to see where you are
15:01  * Lucifer_arma disagrees
15:01  * Lucifer_arma doesn't approve of anything where you have to stop people from using stuff in order to make it "fair"
15:01 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: You gain an unfair advantage for incam only games
15:01  * Lucifer_arma thinks if a server has to block maps, then the server's concept is fundamentally flawed
15:02  * Lucifer_arma will mod his client if necessary, and then just not play on those draconian servers.
15:02  * joda_bot thinks Lucifer_arma just can't make mindmaps ;)
15:02  * Lucifer_arma notes that he was unbeatable on his own incam server
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> have you used the map, joda_bot ?
15:10 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: yes ;)
15:11 <joda_bot> but not in incam games
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> try it in an incam game.  I've found it to be worthless for that
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> so your "unfair advantage" doesn't exist, in my experience :)
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> or if it does, it exists independently of whether or not the server is incam only
15:18 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: without a map you can't be sure what's behind the next corner
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> even with a map you can't be sure what's behind the next corner
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> because the map takes time to read
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> and if you're worrying about what's behind the next corner, you're in a situation where you don't have time to read the map
15:21 <joda_bot> hm
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> try it.  :)  I played goalie one night with incam only using my cockpit with the map in plain sight, and I never had time to look at the map when I was being attacked,
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> it was still only useful as a tac display to see how my team was doing.
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15:22 <Lucifer_arma> hey pavelo
15:22 <pavelo> hi
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> so with your tab completion, I could do /msg velo and get you?
15:23 <pavelo> that was the general idea
15:23 <pavelo> wait
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> how does it deal with collisions?  :)  I would assume it just uses the same mechanism (I don't know the tab completion code at all)
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> so what if there's someone named velocity?
15:24 <pavelo> it does the same as wrtl's (i think he wrote the original)
15:24 <pavelo> it just displays possible options
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he did, so he's going to have to review the patch
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I was just curious.  Did you manage to deal with spaces in play names by any chance?  afaik, that's still an issue
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> like, if I do /msg wrtl<tab> I get /msg wrtlprnft |mbc|, and the message sent to him starts with |mbc|  :)
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15:25 <pavelo> the tab-completion code has nothing to do with /msg
15:26 <pavelo> it just does simple string substitution
15:26 <pavelo> and /msg has it's own completion AFAIK
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> umm, it works there.  ah, I think I see what you're saying.  Modifying tab completion won't change /msg :)
15:26 <pavelo> :)
15:27  * Lucifer_arma has had at least one person pick him out using a fake name because of tab completion :)
15:28 <pavelo> i also thought about de-l33t-ing names
15:28 <pavelo> so if im named P4\/3L0 pav<tab> would still expand to that
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BB19F.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <pavelo> but i dont have time to play with that right now
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> that's possible, there's already a de-l337ed version of the name stored somewhere
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> I think it collapses all names to alphanumeric, anyway, so it's not quite complete
15:30 <pavelo> i'll look around when i find time
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> "when I find time" is the story of my life, heh
15:34  * Lucifer_arma bbiab, store
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> er
15:34  * Lucifer_arma is away: store
15:35 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-216-12.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
15:40 <k> joda_bot: Is there a reason why makedist.bat is copying all the src/doc/ files into dist/doc?
15:44 <joda_bot> k: no I just thought it's a start to get a doc there
15:44 <joda_bot> replace it by a call to your doc generation
15:44 <joda_bot> or just add another bat to copy the doc + installer files to dist
15:45 <joda_bot> k: because profile and debug won't need those I guess
15:47 <z-man-soccer> 1-0!!!!!!!
15:48 <k> ok.  i'll look into it once I get my automated builds working again.  just need to work on building Code::Blocks projects from the command line.
15:48 <k> z-main-soccer: don't you mean GOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! :)
15:49 <Your_mom_arma> haha
15:49 <Your_mom_arma> hmm
15:50 <joda_bot> k: can't you somehow use the makefile code::blocks generates ?
15:51 <Your_mom_arma> z-man if i post a recording a 2 minute recording could you look at it and tell what the crash at the end is?
15:51 <joda_bot> k: you probably already do , I guess
15:51 <k> joda_bot: not sure.  i do know that they added the ability to the nightlies to specify a project and or workspace on the command line to build it.
15:51 <joda_bot> ah
15:51 <joda_bot> ok
15:52 <k> if it works the same as VC6 it should be simple to get working
15:53 <k> i think you can specify the target as well
15:56  * spidey|2 yawns
15:56 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-196-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:57 -!- z-man-soccer is now known as z-man
15:57 <z-man> Your_mom_arma: I can try, but with system specific crashes, recordings are useless at times
15:58 <z-man> (still away, going for a midnight stroll)
15:58  * spidey|2 trips z-man  on his way out
16:00 <Your_mom_arma> okay i posted it
--- Log opened Wed Jun 14 16:07:21 2006
16:07 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:07 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 25 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 25 normal]
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16:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
16:08  * Lucifer_arma is back.
16:08  * spidey|2 trips Lucifer_arma on his way in
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you
16:08  * spidey|2 is the bear
16:08 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:08 <spidey|2> :D
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> apparently it's been longer than I thought since I skated
16:09 <spidey|2> hahahahah
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> spilled twice on the way to the store
16:09  * Lucifer_arma used to be able handle pretty steep hills
16:09 <spidey|2> you know what i used to do
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> pick your butt, then pick your nose and eat it?
16:10 <k> my 10 year old does that. =)
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> he picks your butt, and then picks your nose and eats it?
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> yuck.  How do you tolerate that?
16:10 <spidey|2> there's this big ass hill in front of my other grandmas house,when i was like 8-10 or something and those scooter thingys with the handle bars came out
16:10 <k> his. :P
16:10 <spidey|2> i took off down that hill with it
16:11 <spidey|2> and hit alot of gravel
16:11 <spidey|2> xD
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, watch out for that gravel?
16:12 <spidey|2> it was all the way accross the road
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> my choice was "hit the curb" or try to jump up onto the curb and roll into the grass
16:12 <spidey|2> not much i could do,unless i could fly :s
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> so I tried the jump (used to be able to do that...)
16:12 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you never had to type the whole name for /msg ;)
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> I thought rolling into the grass was preferred over hitting the curb
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: and?  :)
16:12 <wrtlprnft> actually, any unique part will do
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, now I can do prn<tab> and get wrtlprnft
16:13 <wrtlprnft> whattheheckiswrongwithmyspacebar?
16:13 <wrtlprnft> really?
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, after you review and commit pavelo's patch :)
16:13 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:13 <wrtlprnft> I'dlike tochange it so it only takes the beginnings ofwords
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> ?  that would defeat the point of his patch, wouldn't it?
16:14 <wrtlprnft> so if someone is named ~*sp*~ idiot you can use idi<tab> or ~*sp*~<tab>, but not ot<tab>
16:15 <wrtlprnft> because right now for most tagless names you can just use the first letter and tab
16:15 <wrtlprnft> if you used anyletter you'd usually need at least two
16:15 <k> if you keep press <tab> does it cycle through all possible matches?
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> what about for 5up3rturd ?
16:15  * wrtlprnft needstofix his spacebar
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> yes, and if there is more than one it gives you a list of choices
16:15 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: 5up will do,or rtur
16:15 <Your_mom_arma> hmmm
16:16 <Your_mom_arma> luci why does turning off text output allow the local game to not crash and turning it back on result in a crash after leaving local game
16:17 <Lucifer_arma> beats the fuck out of me
16:17 <Lucifer_arma> how are you turning off text output?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ccccccccccccccccccccccccc            mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,xccccccvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,     
16:17 <wrtlprnft> acksorrry
16:17 <spidey|2> you actually play local games?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> wasmessing with my keyboard
16:17 <spidey|2> lol
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and it didn'twork, obviously
16:17 <spidey|2> as luci told me, FIX YOUR FUCKING KEYBOARD
16:17 <spidey|2> :p
16:18 <wrtlprnft> if i hit the right part of the spacebar it won'twork...
16:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, I told you to fix your fucking mouth---er, mouse
16:18 <spidey|2> hahahah
16:18 <wrtlprnft> bearwith me!
16:19 <wrtlprnft> o_Omy spacebar has a crack!
16:19 <spidey|2>   no
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> so just hit the wrong part?
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: how are you turning off text output?
16:19 <spidey|2> in misc
16:19 <Your_mom_arma> yeah
16:19 <spidey|2> it's a option
16:19 <spidey|2> text wrap or something
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> I've never seen it, heh
16:20 <spidey|2> lahl
16:21  * Lucifer_arma wonders how it turns off text output.
16:21 <spidey|2> it takes it off the screen
16:21 <spidey|2> it's always been there
16:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, the sound engine uses std::cout for it's output, I think.  I'll give it a look over.
16:21 <Lucifer_arma> takes what off the screen?
16:21 <Lucifer_arma> turns off the console?
16:21 <spidey|2> the text
16:21 <spidey|2> .....
16:21 <spidey|2> you can't see anything that other people or the server says
16:21 <Your_mom_arma> luci i posted a recording if you want to look at it
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> right, that's the console :)
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> I don't have a working client right now, and my computer's thrashed.  it'll be next week before I can build anything, I have to fix my computer, and I'm not doing that until after my calc test
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> either your crash is different from the one z-man had, or there's a call to put something in the console that doesn't really exist
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> rather, that particular crash.
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> does turning off teh console also prevent the crash when you hit play/next/previous?
16:24 <spidey|2> it doens't crash for me....
16:24 <spidey|2> with it on,and with it off
16:24 <spidey|2> what version you got mom?
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, it only affects people with dodgy sound
16:24 <wrtlprnft> bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbmhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-n,          
16:24 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!
16:24 <spidey|2> LOL
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> wwwwwrrrrrrrrrttttttttttttlllllllllllllppppppppppppprrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnfffffffffffttttttttttttttt
16:24 <wrtlprnft> space         works         again        !
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> you call that working?
16:25 <spidey|2> haha
16:25 <wrtlprnft> lol no
16:25 <wrtlprnft> that's just compensation for the missing ones above
16:25 <wrtlprnft> now I just have that cracked alt key, no idea how long that will halp
16:25 <wrtlprnft> *help
16:26  * wrtlprnft 's gonna call dell as soon he gets home to get a new F12, alt and space key
16:26 <spidey|2> lmao
16:27 <wrtlprnft> probably another fn- key, too. It's working fine, but it has the same size as the windows key, then I can trash that win key and put something else there :)
16:27 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: hitting the play and next buttons doesnt make it crash with text outputt off
16:27 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: about the text output, does it crash for error essages?
16:27 <wrtlprnft> like, the ones you get when your connection gets refused
16:28 -!- pavelo [n=pavelo@] has quit ["[BX] We are gtkBitchX of Borg. You will be assimilated. Using ircII is futile."]
16:28 <Your_mom_arma> it just crashes to desktop hitting the play button in game causes a crash pop up
16:28 <wrtlprnft> or, never mind, there's another bug that'll prevent it from crashing
16:28 <wrtlprnft> what about the menu help strings?
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> how does a bug prevent crashing?
16:29 <wrtlprnft> I think it has soething todo with text wrapping
16:29 <wrtlprnft> and in that version the error essages didn't get wrapped
16:30 <wrtlprnft> now the m- key is on strike...
16:30 <spidey|2> lmfao
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> don't you mean lfao?
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> so now he's going to call e Lucifer_ara
16:32  * Lucifer_arma has problems with his 'a' key
16:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer_arma Lucifer_arma Lucifer_arma 
16:32 <spidey|2> lol
16:32  * wrtlprnft loves tab copletion
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> I do "cd armgetrond' a lot
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> just say tab copulation, and nobody will notice your '' key doesn't work
16:32 <wrtlprnft> oo
16:33 <spidey|2> my space bar has a broken clip,so i have to hit the center of it or the left side
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> you couldn't move in a clip from nder a different key?
16:33 <spidey|2> no.....
16:33 <z-man> I alwayss produce double ss
16:33 <spidey|2> other keys don't have clips
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> Right now, if I hit end, home, or left-shift, those keys might pop off
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> my Fn key is long gone
16:33 <Your_mom_arma> wrtl is there a way to make a gauge display in reverse?
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> set the range from high to low?
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> you want bars that start on the right and flood left, don' tyou?
16:34 <Your_mom_arma> something like that
16:34 <wrtlprnft> it should work, actually
16:35 <wrtlprnft> not sure, i didn't test it in ages, so it might have become broken one day
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> setting the range from high to low?
16:35 <wrtlprnft> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
16:35 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:35 <wrtlprnft> qwertzuiop�asdfghjkl��yxcvbnm,.-
16:35 <wrtlprnft> yay
16:36 <[Xpert]DarkStar> german, eh?
16:37 <wrtlprnft> ��pyeah
16:37 <wrtlprnft> #canada
16:37 <armabot>  4 
16:38 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #switzerland
16:38 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:38 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hrrrmmmm
16:38 <wrtlprnft> :P
16:38 <wrtlprnft> i added that
16:38 <[Xpert]DarkStar> +
16:38 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar>  + 
16:39 <wrtlprnft> why blinking?
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar> blinking?
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar> that is bold -.-
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar>  + 
16:39 <wrtlprnft> uh, for me it blinks
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar> bold not working anyway...
16:39 <wrtlprnft> the plus does, that is
16:39 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #help
16:39 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
16:40 <G5_Ger> I will leave IRC. Bye.
16:40 <[Xpert]DarkStar> bye G5_Ger 
16:40 <Your_mom_arma>     <AtomicData field="maximum" source="0" />           <AtomicData field="minimum" source="1" />
16:40 -!- G5_Ger [n=G5_Ger@dslb-084-056-138-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:40 <wrtlprnft> that might work, yes
16:40 <Your_mom_arma> that causes the guage to not show up
16:40 <[Xpert]DarkStar> wrtlprnft: could you add  + ?
16:40 <wrtlprnft> just type #alias add swizerland "echo <yourflaghere>"
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> ah cool
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch  + 
16:41 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> :D
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:41 <wrtlprnft> #ch
16:41 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:41 <wrtlprnft> you have to type "echo <blah>"
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch "echo  + "
16:41 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:41 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:41 <armabot>  +
16:41 <wrtlprnft> #ch
16:41 <armabot>  +
16:41 <Your_mom_arma> wrtl any other way you think i should try?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: it doesn't work?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> then that's a bug
16:42 <wrtlprnft> I'll check on it in a second
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch echo  + 
16:42 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:42 <armabot>  +
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hrrrmmmm
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch echo " + "
16:42 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:42 <armabot>  +
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch echo ' + '
16:42 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:42 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:42 <armabot> ' + '
16:43 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch echo  + 
16:43 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:43 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch echo +
16:43 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:43 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:43 <armabot> +
16:43 <[Xpert]DarkStar> -.-
16:43 <spidey|2> that's gay
16:43 <spidey|2> as soon as i joined fortress,someone polled me
16:43 <spidey|2> lol
16:44 <wrtlprnft> [Xpert]DarkStar: you need the "
16:44 <[Xpert]DarkStar> but it's not working correctly -.-
16:44 <wrtlprnft> and put some other code like ^O before the 2nd "
16:44 <wrtlprnft> or it will crop the trailing space
16:44 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias add ch "echo  + "
16:44 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: The operation succeeded.
16:44 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #ch
16:44 <armabot>  + 
16:44 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:44 <[Xpert]DarkStar> :D
16:45  * [Xpert]DarkStar is happy
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
16:48 <armabot> Texas > Canada
16:49 <[Xpert]DarkStar> lol
16:50 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #alias
16:50 <[Xpert]DarkStar> is there a list of aliases?
16:50 <Vanhayes> #list alias
16:50 <armabot> Vanhayes: #, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:, b, barf, canada, ch, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, joke, knock, less, lipsum, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, (1 more message)
16:50 <Vanhayes> #more
16:50 <armabot> Vanhayes: realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, selfdestruct, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, texas, u, unlock, uptime, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> "And I made the enemies/friends alive thing bigger. It was pretty easy to do too, and I dont know anything about programing."  <--- Sometimes you get the bear
16:50 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #barf
16:50 <armabot> /me throws up all over 
16:51 <Vanhayes> try eliza
16:51 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: what's wrong?
16:51 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #eliza
16:51 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: Can you elaborate on that?
16:51 <Vanhayes> Lucifer I dont understand?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> try surprise and wakespam :)
16:51 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #eliza
16:51 <armabot> [Xpert]DarkStar: Can you elaborate on that?
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhh
16:51 <[Xpert]DarkStar> hmm
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> see, I came back from the store saying "sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you"
16:51 <Vanhayes> #eliza hello
16:51 <armabot> Vanhayes: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> I think that was positive feedback :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> and a bug report, in its way
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> indeed, that's what "sometimes you get the bear" means :)
16:51 <[Xpert]DarkStar> #b
16:52 <Vanhayes> #q 18
16:52 <armabot> Vanhayes: Quote #5: "first the spoon, then the ladle, then the bowl, then the bowl, then the makefiles have a Ni! -- Armabot" (added by Lucifer_arma at 01:41 AM, March 27, 2006)
16:52 <Vanhayes> er
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> #quote 18
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> #list Quote
16:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: add, change, get, random, remove, search, and stats
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> #quote get 18
16:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: There is no Quote with id #18 in my database for #armagetron.
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> #quote get 17
16:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Quote #17: "And I hate dying nearly as much as I hate Vanhayes. --featherfcuk" (added by Lucifer_arma at 07:02 PM, June 13, 2006)
16:52 <Vanhayes> heh
16:52 <wrtlprnft> wtf?
16:53 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong with Vanhayes?
16:53  * wrtlprnft is confused
16:53 <Vanhayes> It's just feather
16:53  * Lucifer_arma notes that featherfcuk and Vanhayes are teammates on the anarchy team
16:53 <Vanhayes> Ya we insult each other , its pretty funny
16:54 <Vanhayes> THough I haven't done it on the forums..
16:54  * Lucifer_arma would consider it a compliment if fcuker said he hated Lucifer
16:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> he only hates people that kill him a lot
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> and he's hard to kill
16:55 <wrtlprnft> *that are better than him and not idiots themselves
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> ...sometimes
16:55 <wrtlprnft> that's why he doesn't seem to hate psyko
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right.
16:56 <wrtlprnft> :P
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> maybe that's why he doesn't seem to hate me, either?  heh
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:56 <Vanhayes> all I know is that from the moment we first played each other we have  traded insults
16:57 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: if you really want there is a way to get gauges backwards
16:57 <wrtlprnft> a) exchange background with foreground
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> don't tell him to turn his monitor around
16:57 <wrtlprnft> b) replace the <AtomicData> for value by:
16:58 <wrtlprnft> <Math type="difference" lvalue="yourmaximumdatasource" rvalue="yourminimumdatasource" />
16:58 <wrtlprnft> no
16:58 <wrtlprnft> <Math type="difference" lvalue="yourmaximumdatasource" rvalue="yourvaluedatasource" />
16:59 <wrtlprnft> that'll effectively revert the gauges
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> have you figured out a way to write a gauge that takes a list of players and renders them in a table?
17:00 <wrtlprnft> not yet
17:00 <wrtlprnft> I think I'll do something else first, extending the callback
17:00 <wrtlprnft> I wanna make it possible to say watched_cycle.rubber
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> what about templates?  LIke have a template that shows which records to put where (assuming a list of maps)
17:00 <wrtlprnft> and closest_cycle.rubber
17:00 <wrtlprnft> etc
17:00 <Your_mom_arma> wrtl will you add that to the wiki?
17:01 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: no
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> not supported?
17:01 <wrtlprnft> it's more or less temporary
17:01 <wrtlprnft> in the long run I want a real formula parser
17:01 <Your_mom_arma> ok
17:01 <wrtlprnft> if you need examples, there are some in my cockpit file
17:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's exactly what i wanna do, but i need that value thing first
17:02 <wrtlprnft> so you can say something like:
17:02 <spidey|2> i just combined movie packs to make the most unplayable one,haha
17:02 <wrtlprnft> <Row repeat="perplayer">
17:03 <wrtlprnft> <Cell><GameData value="player.colored_name" /></Cell>
17:03 <wrtlprnft> <!-- ... -->
17:03 <wrtlprnft> </Row>
17:03 <wrtlprnft> and then you'd get a row per player
17:03 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/ollivier/mathlib/mathexpr.html
17:03 <Your_mom_arma> i setup an all black moviepack and set a fullscreen map and tried to play on it, it was actually pretty playable
17:04 <wrtlprnft> just make a big black <Rectangle>?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> another undocumented thing
17:04 <wrtlprnft> again, look at my file for examples
17:05 <joda_bot> gn8
17:05 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: thanks, I'll have a look
17:05 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:05 <Your_mom_arma> i can't be expected to know about this stuff... hehe
17:05 <wrtlprnft> night joda
17:05 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: you aren't ;)
17:05 <wrtlprnft> although the <Rectangle> will probably be permanent
17:06 <wrtlprnft> but before I add this to the wiki I want other things like <Line> etc
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> <circle>
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> <square>
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> <acoupleofwavylines>
17:06 <wrtlprnft> o_O
17:06 <Your_mom_arma> haha
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> (ghostbusters joke, I guess)
17:07 <wrtlprnft> uh, what's the difference between <Rectangle> and <Square>? A square is just a rectangle with equeal width and height
17:07 <Your_mom_arma> or is it the other way around
17:07 <Your_mom_arma> jk
17:08 <wrtlprnft> a <Rectangle> is a <Square> with a horizontal or vertical stretch ;)
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, in calc I I showed that the largest rectangle that fits in an equilateral triangle, sharing a base, with the other two points shared on the triangle's other two sides is a square
17:08 <wrtlprnft> yeah, I did that once, too, but more geometric
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> it was an optimization problem  :)
17:09 <wrtlprnft> or, actually i think the target was to fit a square in a given rectangle
17:09 <wrtlprnft> while sharing a base, of course
17:09 <spidey|2> warning
17:10 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:10 <spidey|2> lots of mirroring and a clear dir_wall
17:10 <spidey|2> doesn't mix with fortress
17:10 <spidey|2> xD
17:10 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> a clear dir_wall?  You mean completely transparent?
17:10 <spidey|2> yes,all but the top of it
17:10 <Vanhayes> How do u get that?
17:10 <spidey|2> there's a small line at the top
17:10 <Vanhayes> which movie pack?
17:10 <spidey|2> besides that it's clear
17:10 <spidey|2> not a movie pack
17:10 <spidey|2> i got it off a site
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> iceman's?
17:11 <spidey|2> no
17:11 <Vanhayes> texture thing then
17:11 <spidey|2> yea
17:11 <Vanhayes> That would be usefull in incam
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> my moviepack has some transparency to the walls, but not complete transparency, it's why I can see through them :)
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> it is, actually, with one minor problem
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> if the walls were always rendered from back to front, the problem wouldn't exist
17:12 <Vanhayes> spidey|2, what site?
17:12 <spidey|2> don't remember
17:12 <spidey|2> hold on
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> but since they're rendered in arbitrary order, some walls come out opaque because they're rendered after the walls in front of them, or something like that
17:12 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i could only use that program as an example...
17:12 <wrtlprnft> it's not GPL compatible
17:13 <spidey|2> i'm uploading it to my server, Vanhayes 
17:13 <spidey|2> www.fallin-angels.com/dir_wall.png
17:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I think they're rendered in creation order
17:13 <spidey|2> you can't see it
17:13 <spidey|2> but it's there
17:13 <spidey|2> lol
17:13 <spidey|2> Vanhayes, right click in the upper left
17:13 <spidey|2> and save image
17:14  * wrtlprnft notes that opera displays single images centered
17:14  * wrtlprnft also notes that if you go to fullscreen you get a black background in opera
17:14 <Vanhayes> o ya that reminds me, is it ever going to be possible for other people to see, if you have it, what is on you tail?
17:14  * wrtlprnft further notes that Vanhayes could just press ctrl-s
17:15  * Vanhayes notice that too
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: no
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: or, it is GOING to
17:15 <Vanhayes> never?
17:15 <wrtlprnft> at some point in time, maybe
17:15 <Vanhayes> ok
17:15 <wrtlprnft> but right now it's not, no
17:15 <[Xpert]DarkStar> good night everyone
17:15 <Your_mom_arma> whos cvs test server is that?
17:15 <wrtlprnft> night [Xpert]DarkStar 
17:15 <[Xpert]DarkStar> thnx wrtlprnft :)
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: CvS belongs to Luke-Jr 
17:16 <Vanhayes> satanists and all that?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:18 <k> Vanhayes: It's fairly easy to tell all the clients the names of the textures they are all using and then display those if they exist locally.  I had that working 2.6 at one point.  The problem is automatically downloading textures and all the issues related to that.
17:19 <wrtlprnft> yeah, exactly
17:19 <wrtlprnft> will hopefully be possible once the resource system supports binaries
17:20 <k> It was decided to put it off until all the new resource stuff was worked out and the movie pack concept we redone.
17:20 <k> we = was
17:20 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-196-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
17:20 <Vanhayes> ya It would be cool if u could have a little banner or something that everyone could see
17:20 <Vanhayes> hello madmax|pt 
17:21 <madmax|pt> hi
17:21 <Your_mom_arma> yeah or a lightning bolt trail
17:21  * Your_mom_arma ***
17:21 <wrtlprnft> avatars, yes :P
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ;:D
17:21 <spidey|2> k, shouldn't it be as easy as downloading maps?
17:22 <spidey|2> embed a mini ftp/webserver or something in tron
17:22 <wrtlprnft> if it's a resource it will be
17:22 <Your_mom_arma> im against it unless you can enforce a size file limit and make sure no pornography is on the trails
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.geocities.com/alexei_cioina/cioinaeval.html   <--- looks like it used to be closed source but might be open now?
17:23  * madmax|pt sees "can export to Mathematica 4.x/5.x form" and closes page
17:23 <wrtlprnft> I want to have our own customized formula parser, I'm just looking for ideas
17:23 <k> downloading isn't the issue.  all the current rendering code needs to be rewritten to allow changing textures and other resources for each object.
17:24 <wrtlprnft> it would have to use tValue
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> that's not really the issue either, it's in reach if someone just wants to do it
17:25 <Your_mom_arma> bug(sort of)- show fps in one of the menus does nothing now due to the cockpit 
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> the issue is letting people turn it off :)
17:26 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: that thing should go away anyways :P
17:26 <k> Lucifer_arma: Is there a reason why there is a Play Music and a Pause Music menu option?  I tried out 0.3.0alpha today and bound keys to both, but one of them toggled the music and the other did nothing.
17:26 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'd say we should have a local equivalent to FORBID_COCKPIT_DATA
17:26 <Your_mom_arma> true enough wrtl bu i wasnt sure if anyone else had noticed it
17:26 <wrtlprnft> and hide gauges that contain a forbidden value
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, play starts music, pause togles start and stop and remembers the position.  Stop stops it, if you hit play after stop, it starts at the beginning of the song
17:26 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: thanks, it'll go
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> can we get a place inside the widget where we can put other widgets, then?
17:27 <k> k. thx. i'll have to try Play again.
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, rectangles and stuff, that is
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> what I'm thinking is if I put a rectangle to border a gauge, and someone turns off the gauge by value, they still see the rectangle
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> how do I get rid of the rectangle?
17:28 <wrtlprnft> aah, i see...
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> k: the Play button is borderline useless, actually.
17:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: actually there's no reason not to support it other than it's confusing
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> it would be better to be able to link gauges together, then, like with a <div> tag or something :)
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> and disable it
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> or with a group attribute, and if one gauge in a group is disabled, disable the whole group
17:31 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: no div, please. WidgetGroup, if you like
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> how bout <vid> ?
17:31 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:31 <Vanhayes> so what would I put in the Custom playlist, for it to play my music?
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> makes as much sense :)
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> a complete path to the playlist
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> the playlist itself needs to be a .m3u file
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> so, load winamp or xmms or whatever, build your playlist, save it as .m3u file, *remember where you put it*
17:32 <Your_mom_arma> ie. c:\music\blah.m3u
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> type in the complete path to that file in the line that says Custom Playlist, and select custom playlist from the item that gives you "Internal/custom" choices
17:32  * Vanhayes has trouble remebering things but will try
17:32 <Vanhayes> How big can it be?
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> you can also do this:  :)
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> it can be as big as you want, although I can't certify that it won't take awhile to shuffle it
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> and it's all stored in memory....
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> the playlist itself is, not the songs, of course, those are streamed
17:33 <madmax|pt> uf
17:33 <madmax|pt> lol
17:33 <wrtlprnft> gah
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you can also open user.cfg in notepad or whatever and search it for "PLAYLIST" and then copy and paste the path to the playlist from explorer or something
17:33 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: reversing gauges IS supported :)
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> how?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> just not documented
17:34  * wrtlprnft is figuring it out as we speak
17:34 <Your_mom_arma> not documented is your middle name
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> I thought his middle name was prn?
17:34 <Your_mom_arma> hmm
17:35 <Your_mom_arma> i always pronounce his name wurtle(sounds like turtle) print if
17:36 <madmax|pt> what about the ending t?
17:36 <Your_mom_arma> its silent
17:36 <wrtlprnft> gah
17:36 <wrtlprnft> the code supports it, the DTD doesn't :(
17:37 <Your_mom_arma> post a new one it won't be that hard to replace?
17:37 <wrtlprnft> i will
17:37 <wrtlprnft> if i get it to work ;)
17:38 <wrtlprnft> gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
17:38 <wrtlprnft> the code has a bug
17:39 <Vanhayes> hmm It says it failed to load track
17:40 <Your_mom_arma> osc wants a gui for hud(cockpit) design in game at least thats what i think he's saying
17:41 <wrtlprnft> he'll get disabling gauges as maximum for now
17:41 <wrtlprnft> and maybe configuring the clock
17:42 <wrtlprnft> ok, reverse works now
17:43 <Your_mom_arma> is this a permanent fix?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:43 <Your_mom_arma> yay
17:43 <wrtlprnft> it was just that i never actually tested it
17:43 <wrtlprnft> that meant it was named differently in the source and in the DTD
17:44 <wrtlprnft> and the parsing part forgot to save it somewhere
17:44 <wrtlprnft> guess you have to wait for the bext build :(
17:45 <wrtlprnft> *next
17:45 <Your_mom_arma> thats okay as long as its supported now
17:46 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/.message/19ddf4
17:46 <wrtlprnft> 40 changed lines?!
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=61051#61051
17:49 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/65650
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I think he's saying "Throw it all away and start over by copying these other people, and don't release an unfinished product, no matter how many times you call it a development release"
17:49 <wrtlprnft> i hate if noobs sent me PMs without ever having talked to me
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> remember that guy that played local game for weeks/months while we were trying to figure out why he couldn't join a server?
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> that's not a noob, that's Durka
17:51 <wrtlprnft> ooooooooooooh, sorry
17:51 <wrtlprnft> ok, I'm gonna answer :P
17:52 <wrtlprnft> then that guy has a reason to contact ME ;)
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: failed to load track?  What's the track?  Any idea wht the path is in the m3u file?
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> because it's required the m3u file be absolute paths as well.  I don't know of any media player that puts relative paths, but I won't say it doesn't happen.
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> also, the underlying libraries sdl_mixer uses sometimes fail to load tracks because they suck (smpeg, anyway).
17:54 <Vanhayes> what is an absolute path?
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> starts with c:\ or something like that
17:54 <Vanhayes> ya I have that
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> absolute means "from the top of the hard drive", where relative means "from this directory"
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> what format is the song in?  mp3?
17:54 <Vanhayes> yup
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> mp3 and vorbis are the only ones I've tested
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's probably just smpeg borking on it.  I have a few mp3's that were encoded with lame that smpeg can't read.
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> did it find a track eventually and start playing?
17:55 <Vanhayes> nope went thru a bunck of them too
17:55 <Vanhayes> bunch*
17:56 <Lucifer_arma> can you get a screenshot with the error message showing?  (the forums take .png uploads)
17:58 <Your_mom_arma> wrtl the guy who pm'd you just started talking to me about his server problems
17:58 <Your_mom_arma> no clue who it is
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's durka :)
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> we're at "are you sure you opened the right ports"?
17:59 <Your_mom_arma> heh
17:59 <wrtlprnft> I'll answer later...
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> and he seems to have given up on the thread
17:59 <wrtlprnft> currently busy with all the bugs and my physics project
18:00 <MaZuffeR> mp3s wont work for me either, ogg works though
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> windows?
18:01 <MaZuffeR> yes
18:01  * Lucifer_arma thinks this sounds like maybe sdl_mixer was built without mp3 support
18:01 <Vanhayes> ya I use windows too
18:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508744C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: when you respond, remind him that I'm still waiting for him to find out what his router thinks his public IP address is :)
18:03  * Lucifer_arma has changed his mind
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> silly wants us to just build the house without first laying down a foundation
18:04  * Lucifer_arma grumbles about mac users and their silly emphasis on form over function
18:04 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=61091#61091
18:04 <wrtlprnft> :P
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, at least you were more polite than I was going to be :)
18:05 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:06 <wrtlprnft> [quote="Oscilloscope"]blah[/quote]isn't polite at all :D
18:06 <MaZuffeR> Lucifer_arma: http://www.mazuffer.com/temp/screenshot_7.png
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> Man, he just keeps grumbling, and whenever we ask what he really wants, he just bitches that nobody's listening
18:06 <wrtlprnft> ok, what's next?
18:07 <wrtlprnft> tab completion or gauge disabling?
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> figure out if sdl_mixer on windows was built with mp3 support?
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: bump.  Is sdl_mixer on windows built with mp3 support, do you know?
18:07 <wrtlprnft> 1-4 = tab, 5-6 = gauge
18:07 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-196-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #superdice 1 6
18:07 <armabot> Results: 4 || Sum: 4
18:07 <wrtlprnft> tab :)
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, armabot's not interested in playing up to "do it like the other guys" :)
18:08  * Lucifer_arma likes that girl!
18:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> armabot: if you were a woman and I wasn't already married, I'd ask you out
18:08 <wrtlprnft> note that it wansn't exactly fair for the gauge disabling thin
18:08 <wrtlprnft> g
18:08  * Lucifer_arma noticed
18:08 <Vanhayes> MY error is the exact same as MaZuffeR 's.
18:09 <wrtlprnft> tab completion is in my head for a longer time
18:10  * Lucifer_arma grumbles about not having a working arma client right now
18:10 <spidey|2> heh
18:10 <wrtlprnft> can't you get a binary?
18:10 <wrtlprnft> omg fortress is save now! party!
18:12 <spidey|2> Lucifer_arma, be even worse than SMPEG audio support; SDL_mixer, the library can be built with MP3 support or
18:12 <spidey|2> google maybe
18:13 <spidey|2> mayne*
18:14 <Vanhayes> did you just try to correct a word that was spelt right, with one that wasnt?
18:14 <spidey|2> yes
18:15 <spidey|2> may-n
18:15 <spidey|2> say may and add ne :p
18:15 <spidey|2> it's "slang" d00d
18:15 <spidey|2> :p
18:15 <Vanhayes> I dont't get it
18:15 <Vanhayes> many?
18:16 <spidey|2> no
18:16 <spidey|2> say may
18:16 <spidey|2> then nee
18:16 <spidey|2> nvm 
18:16  * spidey|2 pokes Vanhayes 
18:16 <Vanhayes> maynee?
18:16 <spidey|2> :|
18:16 <Vanhayes> it doesnt sound like a word
18:16 <spidey|2> it's not...
18:16 <spidey|2> i said it's slang
18:16 <Vanhayes> for what?
18:17 <spidey|2> man...
18:17 <spidey|2> it sounds like main
18:17 <spidey|2> lol
18:17 <Vanhayes> O
18:17 <Vanhayes> I get it now
18:17 <spidey|2> LOL
18:17 <Vanhayes> #hose spidey
18:17 <armabot> armabot hoses everyone down.
18:17 <Vanhayes> damn
18:17 <spidey|2> pwnt
18:18 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-216-12.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
18:18 <Vanhayes> #puke spidey
18:19 <spidey|2> pwn
18:19 <Vanhayes> #barh spidey
18:19 <Vanhayes> #barf spidey
18:19 <armabot> /me throws up all over spidey
18:19 <Vanhayes> lol
18:19 <spidey|2> lol
18:19 -!- spidey|2 is now known as McSpiddles
18:19 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-216-12.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
18:23 <Vanhayes> #google fight Firefox Opera
18:23 <armabot> Vanhayes: Firefox: 468000000, Opera: 441000000
18:24 <wrtlprnft> barely
18:24 <wrtlprnft> opera still rocks more than firefox sucks :P
18:24 <Vanhayes> I like opera better myself too
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "firefox sucks" "opera rocks"
18:31 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: opera rocks: 8660000, firefox sucks: 5740000
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> yep
18:34 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "firefox rocks" "opera sucks"
18:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: firefox rocks: 22100000, opera sucks: 3840000
18:35 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "Vanhayes sucks" "Lucifer rules"
18:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer rules: 1310000, Vanhayes sucks: 3
18:35 <Vanhayes> lol
18:35 <Vanhayes> #google fight Vanhayes rules Lucifer sucks
18:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: rules: 1530000000, sucks: 80300000, Lucifer: 10300000, Vanhayes: 216
18:36 <Vanhayes> er
18:36 <Vanhayes> #google fight "Vanhayes rules" "Lucifer sucks"
18:36 <armabot> Vanhayes: Lucifer sucks: 265000, Vanhayes rules: 25
18:37 <Vanhayes> #google fight Vanhayes McSpiddles 
18:37 <armabot> Vanhayes: Vanhayes: 216, McSpiddles: 1
18:37 <Vanhayes> lol pwnt
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "pwnt" "bad spellers suck ass"
18:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: pwnt: 382000, bad spellers suck ass: 18100
18:38 <Vanhayes> ha pwnt
18:38 <Vanhayes> #google search McSpiddles 
18:38 <armabot> Vanhayes: No matches found. (Search took 0.57 seconds)
18:38 <Vanhayes> hmm
18:40 <wrtlprnft> grrmpf, what am i now supposed to use for positions in strings?
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> Probably just gave McSpiddles a pity point
18:40 <McSpiddles> "|
18:40 <McSpiddles> :|
18:40 <wrtlprnft> tString::size_type, unsigned, size_t... what?!
18:40 <McSpiddles> #google fight Vanhayes McSpiddles 
18:40 <armabot> McSpiddles: Vanhayes: 216, McSpiddles: 1
18:40 <McSpiddles> ?
18:41 <McSpiddles> #google fight McSpiddles Vanhayes 
18:41 <armabot> McSpiddles: Vanhayes: 216, McSpiddles: 1
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #g McSpiddles
18:41 <McSpiddles> !!!!!
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #google McSpiddles
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.61 seconds: #armagetron @ freenode stats by Guru3: <http://guru3.sytes.net/ircstats/armagetron.html>
18:41 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:41 <wrtlprnft> worthless one
18:41 <Vanhayes> there is only one McSpiddles  and it is freenode stats
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> #google Vanhayes
18:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Search took 0.17 seconds: User: Vanhayes - Armagetron Advanced Wiki: <http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/User:Vanhayes>; na-wt.org :: Viewing profile: <http://na-wt.org/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=32&sid=c4ba6d2fd154eed7d5625a0aa7bf5aae>; BREAKZ.BE :: drum'n'bass community: <http://www.breakz.be/portal/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=vanhayes>; tron.plantpeanuts.co.uk (3 more messages)
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> #more
18:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: :: Viewing profile: <http://tron.plantpeanuts.co.uk/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=22&sid=4523a6bc2b08d1d004297b6c1fb57159>; tron.plantpeanuts.co.uk :: Search: <http://tron.plantpeanuts.co.uk/search.php?search_author=Vanhayes&sid=3da8fd430f086e1c67e0392c7fee53cd>; wotmania: feed your wheel of time addiction: <http://www.wotmania.com/yourwotmaniaprofile.asp?UserID=36876>; (2 more messages)
18:41 <Vanhayes> stalker
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> #more
18:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: drumandbass.at - Members List: <http://v3.drumandbass.at/board/memberlist.php?s=6a35bd692f8cd4f171976f0e06c8f739&ltr=V>; Alien Arena 2006 Stats: <http://users.adelphia.net/~alienrace/stats/stats6.html>; Petfinder.com Message Boards :: View Forum - Happy Tails [ ]: <http://forums.petfinder.com/viewforum.php?f=3&topicdays=0&start=450&>; German Borg - Web Links: <http://www. (1 more message)
18:42 <McSpiddles> wow
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> #more
18:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: german-borg.de/modules.php?name=Web_Links>
18:42 <McSpiddles> i have 4924 on spidey
18:42 <McSpiddles> die spidey
18:42 <Vanhayes> I just made it onto the list
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> what list?
18:42 <Vanhayes> search McSpiddles on google
18:43 <Vanhayes> http://guru3.sytes.net/ircstats/armagetron.html
18:43 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-119-125-64.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has left #armagetron ["Skrew the best,Salute the rest"]
18:43 <Lucifer_arma> spidey  4924  "tell me your not really in sp!?"
18:43 -!- McSpiddles is now known as spidey
18:43 <spidey> lalalalal
18:44 <spidey> 	spidey	4924		"tell me your not really in sp!?"
18:44 <spidey> hahahaha
18:44 <spidey> random quote
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> It seems that gnorty's shift-key is hanging: 2.7% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE.
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> For example, like this:
18:44 <Lucifer_arma>      <Gnorty> SP_NUM_AIS 0 
18:44 <spidey> and i like it
18:44 <Vanhayes> hmm when did I say "what are the meters on the right?"?
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> looking at my cockpit
18:44 <Vanhayes> o ya
18:44 <Vanhayes> wasnt that yesturday?
18:45 <Lucifer_arma>   wrtlprnft talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 297 times! 
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> Another lonely one was Lucifer_arma, who managed to hit 291 times.
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> the stat script runs daily
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know why guru3 doesn't have the link to it in the subject anymore.  Maybe he just figured out we were spamming it?
18:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:46 <spidey> lol
18:46 <wrtlprnft> 5 lines :P
18:46 <Vanhayes> "Lucifer_arma is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 30 times.
18:46 <Vanhayes> For example, like this:
18:46 <Vanhayes>      * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead 
18:46 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft can't control his/her aggressions, either. He/She picked on others 29 times."
18:46 <Vanhayes> bully
18:46 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: get a new nick
18:46  * Lucifer_arma whacks wrtlprnft
18:46 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
18:46 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
18:47 <Vanhayes> then again u were attacked the most too
18:47 <Vanhayes> Poor Lucifer_arma, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 26 times
18:47 -!- fcukfcuk [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
18:47 <fcukfcuk> fuck
18:47 <fcukfcuk> shit
18:47 <fcukfcuk> ass
18:47 <fcukfcuk> bullshit
18:47 <fcukfcuk> fuck
18:48 <Vanhayes> wow
18:48 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
18:48 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
18:48 <fcukfcuk> stupid
18:48 <fcukfcuk> idiot
18:48 <fcukfcuk> shit
18:48 <fcukfcuk> ass
18:48 <fcukfcuk> bullshit
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's wrtlprnft 
18:48 -!- fcukfcuk [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:48 <Vanhayes> lol
18:48  * wrtlprnft knows nothing
18:49 <wrtlprnft> that was for the foul language stat
18:49 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as wrtlprnft_jerk
18:49 <wrtlprnft_jerk> shit
18:49 <wrtlprnft_jerk> fuck
18:49 <wrtlprnft> heh
18:49 <wrtlprnft_jerk> ass shit dickhead cock tit foul language buttmunch
18:49 <wrtlprnft_jerk> [04:48 pm] <fcukfcuk> stupid [04:48 pm] <fcukfcuk> idiot [04:48 pm] <fcukfcuk> shit [04:48 pm] <fcukfcuk> ass [04:48 pm] <fcukfcuk> bullshit
18:50 -!- You're now known as Lucifer_arma_jer
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> shit
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> fuck
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> ass shit dickhead cock tit foul language buttmunch
18:50 <k> lol
18:50 <wrtlprnft_jerk> ASSWIPE
18:50 <wrtlprnft_jerk> JERK-OFF
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> ASSWIPE
18:50 <wrtlprnft_jerk> FUCK-EATER
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> JERK-OFF
18:50 <wrtlprnft_jerk> (WHATEVER THAT IS)
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> FUCK-EATER
18:50 <Lucifer_arma_jer> (WHATEVER THAT IS)
18:50 -!- wrtlprnft_jerk is now known as Lucifer_arma
18:51 -!- You're now known as wrtlrnft
18:51 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
18:51  * wrtlprnft can't spell his name
18:53 <Your_mom_arma> why dont hud tables dissapear when typing
18:54 <wrtlprnft> they don't if they are defined in viewport="all"
18:57 <Your_mom_arma> thanks
18:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:06 <Vanhayes> Hmm I have .m3u playlist with ogg music on it, it doesnt have that eroor on it anymore and it shows what song is playing but I dont hear anything but the regular sounds
19:07 <Vanhayes> also whenever I switch the song the Time/Fps/timstamp thing moves with it
19:07 <MaZuffeR> try MUSIC_VOLUME 20
19:08 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: in the next version you've gotta thank pavelo for the tab completion, too
19:09 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-245-216-12.delv.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
19:09 <Lucifer_arma> um, hmmm.  :
19:09 <Lucifer_arma> :)
19:09 <Lucifer_arma> did you bind volume keys?  the default for music is full-blast
19:10 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft,  Ya he was telling me about his code. SHould make me even lazier
19:10 <wrtlprnft> hehe
19:10 <Vanhayes> Lucifer_arma, I did bind them and tried that MUSIC_VOLUME 20 but it didnt work
19:10 <wrtlprnft> no way those clan tags a la ~*SP*~ idiot can annoy me anymore ;)
19:11 <Lucifer_arma> try switching tracks?  See if there's a track that plays?  Sometimes I get silence...
19:11 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/.message/19df8c
19:11 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's the change i made
19:11 <wrtlprnft> neatly packed on one line O_o
19:11 <spidey> dude
19:12 <spidey> my cockpit's gone :(
19:12 <spidey> and it won't reload
19:12 <Lucifer_arma> 0.3.0 branch!
19:12 <wrtlprnft> what's COCKPIT_FILE set to?
19:12 <wrtlprnft> gah, true
19:12 <spidey> the standard
19:12 <wrtlprnft> we can probably merge all i put into the trunk to 0.3.0
19:12 <wrtlprnft> they're all not terribly big things
19:13 <Lucifer_arma> umm, you don't merge to a branch, you merge from a branch
19:13 <wrtlprnft> so, what do i do then?
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you're going to do it, do it now before there's a lot.  I suspect I"ll be doing the merging back to the trunk and I'd really prefer not to have a lot of conflicts over this :)
19:14 <wrtlprnft> and how are the changes z-man-work merged from 0.2.8 gonna get into 0.0.3?
19:14 <wrtlprnft> *0.3.0
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> they're not
19:14 <wrtlprnft> wow
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> he merged into the trunk after the branch, right?
19:14 <wrtlprnft> stuff in 0.2.8 is supposed to be stable anyways
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> they'll be in 0.3.1 :)
19:14 <wrtlprnft> so it can well fit into a dev version
19:15 <wrtlprnft> uh, and how exactly do I merge in a way that makes you, Luke-Jr and z-man-work happy?
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> umm, that's not the only concern.  Stuff from a stable branch can break the trunk from time to time
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> well, depending on the change you could just redo it with a simple copy and paste
19:16 <Lucifer_arma> how big are the changes we're talking about?
19:16 <wrtlprnft> what changes were made in 0.3 anyways?
19:16 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:16 <wrtlprnft> probably it's different files anyways
19:17 <Lucifer_arma> no changes yet that I know of, the branch is so I can fix the music stuff that's broke and take any perceived lock off the trunk so people can tear it up again that are't involved with 0.3.0
19:17 <Lucifer_arma> "tear up the trunk" happened to include z-man's 0.2.8 merge :)
19:17 <wrtlprnft> go figure
19:18 <wrtlprnft> the only change there involves eSoundMixer.cpp
19:18 <Lucifer_arma> bugfixes really should get brought back to 0.3.0 branch, and if you anticipate making any more (I wouldn't if I were you), you should keep a checkout around of 0.3.0 for that
19:18 <Lucifer_arma> pavelo's patch can be left out of 0.3.0 if you don't really want to deal with bringing it back, it's up to you, really.
19:18 <wrtlprnft> well.
19:18 <Lucifer_arma> but if you make any more chanes that you want in 0.3.0, you need to checkout the branch
19:19 <wrtlprnft> it looks like I'm the only one that changed the trunk
19:19 <wrtlprnft> and the only change in 0.3.0 is that one file
19:19 <wrtlprnft> so can't we just backport the eSoundMixer.cpp thing, delete the branch, and re- create it?
19:20 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  If you'd like to do that, knock yourself out, but that'll only be like the 3rd time the branch has been created.  :)  I guess we're still getting used to svn
19:21 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> I can't do anything until I fix my computer, and tht's not happening until after my calc test
19:21 <wrtlprnft> or i can just create a tarball of all the files I changed and bring that over to the trunk
19:22 <wrtlprnft> s/trunk/0.3.0
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> see if you can get svn to give you a patch, then just read through the patch and make sure there aren't any changes you don't know about,
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> then apply the patch to a branch checkout and commit :)
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> that's all it would do during a merge anyway...
19:30 <wrtlprnft> I'll just make the patch and cut out what i don't like :P
19:33 -!- [NP]Tangent_ [n=hyperdev@71-212-173-203.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
19:34 <Lucifer_arma> hi Tange
19:34 <Lucifer_arma> er
19:34 <Lucifer_arma> konversation doesn't have tab completion for people with annoying tags in their names
19:34 <wrtlprnft> won't work in IRC
19:34 <Lucifer_arma> can you apply your patch to konversation for me while you're at it?  ;)
19:34 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:37 <spidey> i can't do it
19:37 <spidey> i try to play on mbc and i bug todath :/
19:37 <spidey> death
19:48 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-210-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:08 <Vanhayes> #night
20:08 <armabot> Good night Vanhayes!
20:08 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180156.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:52 -!- _mkz3lda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
20:53 -!- _mkz3lda is now known as mkzelda
21:09 <wrtlprnft> bf fortress is empty? at this time?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> wow.
21:10 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <wrtlprnft> z-man must have really scared them off
21:15 <spidey> lucifer....
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> what?
21:16 <spidey> how the hell did wizz's FPS go up by about 20-25 when mine and most everyone else that tride it dropped by 20-30
21:16 <spidey> from using the alpha build
21:17 <wrtlprnft> it's more load on the CPU, less on the GPU now
21:17 <spidey> tryed
21:17 <wrtlprnft> the font *should* be faster than before
21:17 <wrtlprnft> but the cockpit and stuff eat away CPU time
21:17 <spidey> but mine still goes down :(
21:17  * spidey has enough cpu so that doesn't matter
21:18 <wrtlprnft> then something else is in the way... got a profiler handy?
21:18 <spidey> profiler?
21:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:18 <spidey> what's that xD
21:18 <wrtlprnft> tells you how much time the program spends in every function
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> does wiz use linux?
21:18 <spidey> n
21:18 <spidey> no
21:18 <spidey> she's on windows
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> you're playing it on windows, too, still?
21:18 <spidey> onboard gfx to...
21:19 <Luke-Jr> spidey: that's why
21:19 <wrtlprnft> onboard gfx = pci?
21:19 <spidey> ywhy?
21:19 <spidey> no
21:19 <wrtlprnft> but?
21:19 <spidey> integrated
21:19 <Luke-Jr> like wrtlprnft said, less GPU load
21:19 <wrtlprnft> ...
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> it's usually agp, but it's usuly kinda shitty
21:19 <spidey> Luke-Jr, me and wizz have integrated gfx
21:19 <spidey> my cpu isn't the problem :p
21:19 <Luke-Jr> spidey: you do also?
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> me too :)
21:19 <spidey> yes i do
21:19 <Luke-Jr> weird
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> but I get comparable fps
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> do you use a moviepack?  does wiz?
21:20 <wrtlprnft> and more memory useage on the graphics card
21:20 <spidey> i get 20-26 now :<
21:20 <wrtlprnft> that's what i get :P
21:20 <spidey> wizz uses a custom one
21:20 <spidey> i use default
21:20 <wrtlprnft> that's what i ever got
21:20 <Luke-Jr> integrated gfx usually share system RAM 
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> I use a moviepack too....
21:20 <spidey> wrtlprnft, yes but i get 60+ when i use the older ones :p
21:20 <spidey> that's half cut in it
21:20 <spidey> and a bit laggy sorta
21:20 <spidey> like motion sickness
21:20 <spidey> xD
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> windows versions?
21:21 <spidey> yea
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> yours and wiz...
21:21 <spidey> worse in linux
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> what are they?
21:21 <spidey> intel
21:21 <spidey> extreme
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> both in winXP service pack 20000?
21:21 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:21 <spidey> winxp 
21:21 <spidey> i got sp 2 
21:22 <spidey> i think
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> and wiz?
21:22 <spidey> :/
21:22 <wrtlprnft> aren't they at sp4 now? or was that win2000?
21:22 <spidey> no
21:22 <spidey> oh
21:22 <spidey> yea she does too
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I assume that when onboard gfx shares system ram you dont' ahve to pump textures across the agp bus?
21:23 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AFD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:23 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ /usr/sbin/lspci | grep -i graphics                           ~
21:23 <wrtlprnft> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02)
21:23 <wrtlprnft> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02)
21:23 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: not sure
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> I lost some fps with the first font revision, but didn't lose any with the cockpit
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> then wrtlprnft did some extra work and my fps came back up to normal
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> so I've neither lost nor gained any...
21:24 <wrtlprnft> that was with FONT_TYPE 3?
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> yes
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> what's the default font_type set at?
21:25 <wrtlprnft> 3
21:25 <spidey> 1
21:25 <spidey> 3?
21:25 <wrtlprnft> 3! 3! 3!
21:25 <wrtlprnft> always
21:25 <spidey> i use 4
21:26 <spidey> it's cool
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> what's 4 do?
21:26 <wrtlprnft> polygon font
21:26 <spidey> double lined
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:26 <wrtlprnft> ah, no, outline font then
21:26 <spidey> yea
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> set it to 3 and quit whining until you do that :)
21:26 <spidey> ugh
21:26 <spidey> dude
21:26 <spidey> i first said something about it
21:26 <wrtlprnft> 3 should be the fastest
21:26 <spidey> when it was set to default
21:26 <spidey> :)
21:27 <spidey> my fps stay at 26 weither or not i use 3 or 4
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> change to my cockpit and see if it changes
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how much of a difference that should make, but my cockpit is smaller
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> or better yet, make a blank cockpit and change to that
21:27 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that won't work
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> what's the minimum a cockpit file needs to not break?
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> why?
21:28 <wrtlprnft> you need the framerate meter somewhere :P
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> hahahahaha
21:28 <spidey> l,ol
21:28 <wrtlprnft> if you want no cockpit at all you can just specify a nonexistent file
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> ok, a cockpit file with just a frame meter :)
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, if he did that he could't complain about lost fps he doesn't know about...
21:28 <spidey> :/
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> it may also be problems in the sound system, actually
21:28 <spidey> oh yea
21:28 <spidey> sounds are weird
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> try turning off sound if you haven't already
21:29 <spidey> i did
21:29 <spidey> but
21:29 <spidey> they don't turn off
21:29 <wrtlprnft> can't we provide a build with sound disabled, just to see if it gets better for someone?
21:29 <spidey> so i turn my speakers down
21:29 <wrtlprnft> spidey: that won't help the performance
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> we could, you want to make it?  :)
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's just a define...
21:29 <spidey> wrtlprnft, no but then i don't have to listen to that headache sound when i turn :p
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> (if you were using linux, spidey, you could build with sound disabled)
21:30 <spidey> lol
21:30 <spidey> it's the way i got everything setup
21:30 <spidey> i can't play on the linux one unless i move everything around
21:30 <spidey> and it's way to much shit to move
21:30  * wrtlprnft notes that building armagetron is possible on windows too
21:30 <wrtlprnft> but a pain in the a**
21:31 <spidey> mmmm
21:31 <spidey> it's in C right?
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> C++, and everything you need to build it is free
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> so it's not like you need to go get a job to buy MS VS 2003 or anything
21:32 <spidey> fuck that
21:32 <spidey> i'd pirate it :p
21:32 <spidey> i've got VS actually
21:32 <spidey> only supports VB6 though
21:34 <wrtlprnft> screw VC6, we're starting to stop supporting it
21:35 <spidey> VB6!!!!
21:35 <spidey> visual basics
21:35 <spidey> derrr
21:35 <wrtlprnft> screw VC* unless you really have a reason to use it
21:35 <wrtlprnft> err, i meant VC6
21:35 <spidey> yes
21:35 <spidey> i do
21:35 <spidey> gcc skips for me
21:35 <wrtlprnft> then fix gcc
21:35 <spidey> ....
21:36 <wrtlprnft> I don't think the 0.3 client even compiles with VC6
21:36 <spidey> :|
21:36 <wrtlprnft> sorry, VC6 doesn't support many of the cool things you can do with VC6
21:36 <wrtlprnft> err
21:36 <wrtlprnft> sorry, VC6 doesn't support many of the cool things you can do with c++
21:37 <spidey> lucifer,i think that maybe the reason i skip along like in the recording i sent you
21:38 <spidey> cause before when i used gcc it was completely unplayable,but the the .3 and  2.8.2 it's sorta playable,except when i smack into a wall xD
21:38 <spidey> and vc8 doesn't even start,lol
21:39 <wrtlprnft> stop having some totally f***ed up system?
21:39 <spidey> .......
21:39 <spidey> it's not fucked up
21:39 <spidey> it's a legit cd i used
21:40 <wrtlprnft> and, uh, how much illegal software on it?
21:41 <spidey> none....
21:41 <spidey> i've got alot of .rars and .zips on my warez drive
21:41 <spidey> but none in stalled
21:41 <spidey> nothing touches this drive unless it has to
21:41 <spidey> ~game installs~ mostly
21:41 <spidey> and i've only got 3
21:41 <spidey> not including tron 
21:42 <wrtlprnft> well, the trouble is that you have some weird problems with gcc builds, and that's most likely not our fault
21:42 <spidey> didn't say it was,i've never been able to support a gcc build,not even on a fresh install
21:44 <spidey> ok,which one of these .3 sources i need?
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=61201#61201  heh
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> the zip, most likely
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> the zip is for windows, tarballs are for linux.  It's line endings that's the difference, I believe.
21:47 -!- [NP]Tangent_ is now known as [NP]Tangent
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> arg, what am I doing wrong?  :(
21:49 <spidey> ?
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> I've worked out an integral 4 times for this thing and worked each one through to get the *wrong* answer
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> line passes through (6,8) and (10,0).  What's the equation for it?
21:53 <wrtlprnft> err
21:53 <wrtlprnft> slope is -8/4
21:53 <wrtlprnft> so it's -2
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> I get y=-2x + 20
21:54 <wrtlprnft> #g -2*10+20
21:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (-2 * 10) + 20 = 0
21:54 <wrtlprnft> should be correct
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's a symmetric trapezoid under water, with the top of the figure at the surface of the water, and the bottom is 8 feet deep
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> so I put my origin in the middle of the base of the trapezoid
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> what's the depth of a point on the line?
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> the point has coordinates (x,y)
21:55 <wrtlprnft> feet?!
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> I get 8-y
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> feet, yes
21:55 <wrtlprnft> #g 8 feet in m
21:55 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 8 feet = 2.4384 meters
21:55 <wrtlprnft> let's continue with that
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> I have to answer in lbs, so let's not :)
21:56 <wrtlprnft> omg
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> don't worry, half the problems are in meters
21:56 <wrtlprnft> metres please :P
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> honestly you can ignore the units
21:57 <wrtlprnft> you somehow need to know the lengths of the bases of the trapezoid
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I know those, but I haven't told you what I'm trying to figure out
21:57 <wrtlprnft> then tell me?
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> hydrostatic pressure on the figure :)
21:58 <wrtlprnft> that rises linearly with depth?
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> I'm using 62.4 lbs for water pressure, and that's 62.4 lbs * depth (feet)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> the line is the right-hand side of the trapezoid
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> but it does rise linearly with depth
21:59 <wrtlprnft> which base of the trapezoid is bigger, the top or the bottom?
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> bottom
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> so, since the pressure of the water changes with depth, I'm chopping the figure horizontally to make it a constant
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> then I'm figuring out the water pressure on a slice of the figure
22:00 <wrtlprnft> yeah, makes sense
22:00 <wrtlprnft> and then count them all together
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> then I put that into an integral, the result is the total pressure on the figure
22:00 <wrtlprnft> and then get a formula and let the number of slices go -> oo
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> right.  or let the height of the slices go to 0, which is how he wants us to think about it :)
22:01 <wrtlprnft> whatever
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> so, the right-hand edge of a slice is at coordinates (x,y) on the line, the equation of which we just figure out
22:01 <wrtlprnft> that means the length will be 2 times that
22:02 <wrtlprnft> then you get the area of your rectangle, length times height, and multiply that by your pressure
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> To get the presure on the slice, it's pressure * area of the slice, where pressure is 62.4 lbs * depth
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> so, since every point on the slice has the same y coordinate, and the surface of the water is at y=8, I do 8-y to get the depth for the slice, right?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:03 <wrtlprnft> just try one big slice first..
22:04 <wrtlprnft> that would be l(top)*h*p0*0
22:04 <wrtlprnft> so 0 for that
22:04 <wrtlprnft> 2 slices:
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, the size of the slice doesn't matter, work with variables instead because when I get the riemann sum out of it and put it in the integral, all slices get counted automatically
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's the point of the exercise :)
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> so the length of a slice is 2x
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> the height is delta-y
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> area of the slice is 2x * delta-y
22:05 <wrtlprnft> now you somehow lost me :(
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> can't have x's, I need all y's.
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> just like programming, man.  I'm trying to construct a formula that will give me the force on a single slice
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not trying to compute the force on a slice, just building a formula
22:06 <wrtlprnft> I'd like to get a formula for the pressure if you cut it into n slices
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> delta-y is the number that will go to zero
22:06 <wrtlprnft> yeah, same thing as the number of slices going to oo
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> right.  the integral will take care of that for me, so we just need to get one slice and stick it in an integral, that's all :)
22:07 <wrtlprnft> (/me is still working with the number of slices)
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> so the area of a slice is 2x * delta-y
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> (the base is 20 and the top is 12 on the trapezoid, if you were wondering, that's why the right edge passes through the points I gave when the origin is placed at the bottom)
22:08 <wrtlprnft> yes
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> so I need x in terms of y to make the area formula all y's
22:09 <wrtlprnft> that's why you have that linear equation
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> I get x = 10 - (1/2)y
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's why I needed the equation of the line :)
22:10 <wrtlprnft> so you have 2x*delta-y*(10-1/2)y
22:10 <wrtlprnft> oops
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> no x anymore, right?  2 * (10-(1/2)y) * delta-y ?
22:10 <wrtlprnft> so you have 2x*delta-y*(10-1/2y)
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> no x anymore?  substitute for x, the x is gone
22:11 <wrtlprnft> and that thing is a sum, with y going from 0 to 8ft in steps of 8/delta-y
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> right...  :)
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> so, the force for the whole figure is pressure * area, where area is a delta too
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> pressure was 624*(8-y), right?
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> er, 62.4
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> so I get 62.4 * (8 - y) * 2 * (10 - (1/2)y) * delta-y
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's force on the slice
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> so when you add up all those for all the slices, you get force on the figure
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> that's a Riemann Sum, so I can make it an integral, except I think I did this integral already, but I'll go back through it again
22:15 <wrtlprnft> back, sorry
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so I pull out the constant (62.4 * 2) and end up with this:
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> (8 - y)( 10 - (1/2)y )
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> #g (8 - y)( 10 - (1/2)y )
22:15 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> it was worth a shot :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> #g (8 - y)( 10 - (1/2)*y )
22:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <wrtlprnft> #g (8 - y)*( 10 - (1/2)*y )
22:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <wrtlprnft> aaah
22:16 <wrtlprnft> there's a y
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g (8 - 1)( 10 - (1/2)2 )
22:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g (8 - 1)* ( 10 - (1/2)2 )
22:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <wrtlprnft> #g (8 - 1)*( 10 - (1/2)*1 )
22:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (8 - 1) * (10 - ((1 / 2) * 1)) = 66.5
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g (8 - 1) * ( 10 - (1/2) * 2 )
22:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (8 - 1) * (10 - ((1 / 2) * 2)) = 63
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g (8 - y) * ( 10 - (1/2) * y )
22:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so google can't do algebra
22:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> so, multiply it out :)
22:17  * Lucifer_arma goes to multiply it out himself
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I get 80 - 14y + (1/2)y^2
22:18 <wrtlprnft> any way to factor that?
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> it was factored
22:19 <wrtlprnft> ah
22:19 <wrtlprnft> dunno what you need
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> umm, yeah, actually, I can take 1/2 out of it
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, now I need to integrate it
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> and then evaluate the integral from 0 to 8
22:19 <wrtlprnft> you're now entering territory i know absolutely nothing about :P
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> see, you were going to use a sum on it, remember?
22:19 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:19 <wrtlprnft> but then, that integral thing
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, the sum we put together has the special name of Riemann Sum, and when you let the number of slices go to infinity, you get the area under the graph or something like that
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> remember the derivative way back when?
22:20 <wrtlprnft> that deltay over deltax function?
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, months ago
22:21 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:21 <wrtlprnft> i thought that was that deltay over deltax thing
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> the slope of the tangent line to a point on a graph, you went and looked at wikipedia at the product rule and some other stuff
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right, yeah, you're right, sorry :)
22:21  * Lucifer_arma is smoking crack
22:21 <wrtlprnft> like, the derivative of y=x^2 is y=2x
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> integration is the inverse operation of derivation
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> *differentiation
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> gah
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> stupid highlight
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> integration is the inverse operation of differentiation
22:22 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> haha
22:22  * [NP]Tangent throws a sinewave at Lucifer_arma 
22:22 <wrtlprnft> its derivative is a coswave!
22:22  * Lucifer_arma catches it and tosses back a -cos
22:22 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> NO!
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> right, but it's antiderivative is -cos(x)
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> not derivatives!
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> because I am the Integrator!
22:23 <wrtlprnft> so you're given y=2x and need to find y=x^2?
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> yep
22:23 <[NP]Tangent> I'm the operator with my pocket calculator
22:23 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> so that big old polynomial we just put together, I need to integrate it
22:23  * wrtlprnft pulls out kcalc and pulls it over [NP]Tangent's head
22:23  * Lucifer_arma goes to integrate it
22:24 <[NP]Tangent> y=2x, y=x^2, x=2 and y=4
22:24 <[NP]Tangent> :D
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I get 80y - (14/2) * y^2 + (1/6) * y^3
22:25 <wrtlprnft> that's not what i meant [NP]Tangent 
22:25 <[NP]Tangent> yeah
22:25 <[NP]Tangent> I'm gonna go listen to stupid music now
22:25 <wrtlprnft> anyways, is there any understandable proof why sin functions have all those special features?
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> which ones in particular?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> like, if you add any two sine functions with the same period, you get another sin function
22:26 <wrtlprnft> the derivative thing, (dx/dy)sinx = cosx
22:27 <wrtlprnft> all those little things I'm just reading, hearing etc and i have no idea why
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, we didn't prove sin`(x) = cos(x) really
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, we looked it over.
22:27 <wrtlprnft> ` = derivative?
22:27 <wrtlprnft> i thought that was (dy/dx)
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, "prime" it says
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> there's two notations, and I'm lazy so I dont like leibnitz's notation
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> I only use it when I have to
22:28 <wrtlprnft> and who actually says soundwaves are sin waves?
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so what's arcsin(sin(x)) = ?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> x
22:28 <wrtlprnft> within limits
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> right, so you lay that out
22:29 <wrtlprnft> if x = pi you'll get 0
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> arcsin( (sin(x) ) = x
22:29 <wrtlprnft> ok, got that
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> then you implicitly differentiate the whole thing, and you get this:
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I forgot already
22:30 <wrtlprnft> O_o
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> nevermind, I was just going to show you how to differentiate arcsin, not sin
22:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, duh
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> you do the quotient thing on it
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> difference quotient
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> that's what it is
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> the difference quotient is:
22:32 <wrtlprnft> arcsin(x+a)*arcsin(x-a)/2a
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> ( f(x + h) - f(x) ) / h
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> so:
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> ( sin(x + h) - sin(x) ) /h
22:33 <wrtlprnft> arcsin or sin now?
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> in trig we learned a formula that takes care of sin(x + h)
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> sin, it's the one you were asking about
22:33 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> also in trig we proved that formula
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> so you get:
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> (sin x cos h + cos x sin h - sin x) / h
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> because my teacher told me to, we split it up into two fractions:
22:34 <wrtlprnft> that was some trig identity, right?
22:35 <Lucifer_arma>  ( ( sin x cos h - sin x) / h ) + (cos x sin h) / h)
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, trig identity
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> now you factor out sin x on the left and rewrite it to look like this:
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> sin x * ( ( cos h - 1) / h ) + cos x * (sin h) / h
22:36 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> now take the limit as h->0 for each term that has an h in it
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> the one on the left goes to 0 and the one on the right goes to 1, so you have:
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> sin x * 0 + cos x * 1
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> which is, of course, cos x
22:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:37 <wrtlprnft> now I'd just need proof of those limit rules ;)
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> the difference quotient is the definition of the derivative as h->0, the other rules are derived from that :)
22:37 <wrtlprnft> and of the trig identity you used, we never got to prove that, either
22:38 <wrtlprnft> but thanks :)
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, that was one of the ones we *did* prove :)
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> we don't have a formal proof of limits to work with right now, we just have the concept and graphical representation and some neat tools to use to find limits
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> the proof of it is waiting in front of me, but first I hae to finish this integration
22:38 <wrtlprnft> ah
22:38 <wrtlprnft> getting somewhere
22:39  * wrtlprnft hopes he's not disturbing Lucifer_arma's study
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> my calculator gave me the right answer, or at least was pretty close to the one in the back of the book, which is an approximation for some reason
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> so back to the integration :)
22:39 <wrtlprnft> maybe because you aren't supposed to get the exact result?
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I get 80y - (14/2) * y^2 + (1/6) * y^3
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> teacher says if we can work it exactly, then we need to work it exactly
22:40 <wrtlprnft> hmm ok
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> now, in your sum you went from 0 to 8 to get the force on the trapezoid, remember that?
22:40 <wrtlprnft> now we have y^3, how nice...
22:40 <wrtlprnft> yes
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> to do that with an integral, we take the function I just came up with (someone else could check my integration itself),
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> and do f(8) - f(0)
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> so plug in 8 and subtract the result of plugging in 0 (which is 0, you can tell that just by looking at it)
22:42 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure, they all contain y
22:42 <wrtlprnft> #g 80*8 - (14/2) * 8^2 + (1/6) * 8^3
22:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (80 * 8) - ((14 / 2) * (8^2)) + ((1 / 6) * (8^3)) = 277.333333
22:42 <wrtlprnft> so that's your force?
22:43 <wrtlprnft> you'll probably wanna multiply it by 2 since the trapezoid gets pressed on from both sides
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> no, when I constructed the integral I took out the constant
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> now I need to multiply by the constant.  It was 62.4*2
22:44 <wrtlprnft> #g 277.333333 *  62.4*2
22:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 277.333333 * 62.4 * 2 = 34,611.2
22:44 <wrtlprnft> #g 34,611.2 lbs in mbar
22:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
22:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:44 <wrtlprnft> ah, right
22:45 <wrtlprnft> it's not pressure per area
22:45 <wrtlprnft> #g 34,611.2 lbs in N
22:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 34,611.2 pounds force = 153,958.288 newtons
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> the end unit is lbs
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> 3.5 x 10^4
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3.5 * 10^4
22:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3.5 * (10^4) = 35,000
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #g 153,958.288 / ((6+10)*8/2)
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 153,958.288 / (((6 + 10) * 8) / 2) = 2,405.59825
22:46 <wrtlprnft> argh
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I don't know where I screwed up when I last had this integral on the page, but that's right :)
22:47 <wrtlprnft> #g ((6+10)*8/2) square feet in square metres
22:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (((6 + 10) * 8) / 2) * (square feet) = 5.94579456 square meters
22:47 <wrtlprnft> #g 153,958.288 / 5.94579456
22:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 153,958.288 / 5.94579456 = 25,893.6441
22:48 <wrtlprnft> that would be N per m^2
22:48 <wrtlprnft> uh, 1bar is 10 m of water
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, we're also only worried about the front face
22:48 <wrtlprnft> that makes 100,000N/m^2
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> my teacher at least made an excuse in his lecture that it was the porthole of a boat (he used a circle), but the book makes no such pretensions
22:49 <wrtlprnft> #g 2,405.59825 / 100,000
22:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 2,405.59825 / 100,000 = 0.0240559825
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now it's a semicircle with a radius of 10m
22:49 <wrtlprnft> #g 0.0240559825 * 1000
22:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0.0240559825 * 1,000 = 24.0559825
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> the top of the semicircle is also at the surface of the water
22:49 <wrtlprnft> woot, average of 24 mbar
22:49 <wrtlprnft> that's a bit too low i think
22:50 <wrtlprnft> so this time your width decreases by sqrt(r^2-h)?
22:50 <wrtlprnft> where h is depth
22:51 <wrtlprnft> and it's h^2, obviously
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> horizontal slice first :)
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> we're still figuring out delta-F for the slice, which is:
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> delta-F = pressure * delta-A
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> delta-A is area of a single slice, delta-F is force on a single slice, and pressure is pressure
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> actually, pressure is mass * acceleration due to gravity of the water, right?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> (that's pounds in the english system, but now we're using your favorite units)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> ayway, for some reason I get pressure is 9.8 * 1000 * depth
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> and this time I place my origin at the center of the semicircle, so the surface of the water is at y=0
22:55 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i need to go to bed now... math exam tomorrow
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  :(  Well thanks though.  I think I found my error here
22:55 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> I decided to do 0-y for depth, but y is already negative, so it's a sign error
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> I'll work it through again, though, for completeness and make sure I got the right answer :)
22:56 <wrtlprnft> ah, i need -55% on my exam to fail the course
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> what do you need to pass?
22:57 <wrtlprnft> anything above -55%?
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> haha, duh
22:57 <wrtlprnft> :P
22:57  * Lucifer_arma whacks himself
22:57 <wrtlprnft> :D
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 6.5 * 10^6
23:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 6.5 * (10^6) = 6,500,000
23:42 <spidey> some people i don't uderstand....
23:43 <spidey> this guy i've known for a bit is having money problems,and about to lose net,so i told him setup a paypal account and i'll help him pay half of it
23:43 <spidey> he basically told me to fuck off
23:43 <spidey> lol

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