Log from 2006-06-05:
--- Day changed Mon Jun 05 2006
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> kaudiocreator should collapse to the system tray
00:13 <Luke-Jr> http://www.green-globe.com/
00:13 <Luke-Jr> Imma buy 4x3 blocks for $480 and build a home there >:)
00:13 <Luke-Jr> maybe a bit bigger
00:14 <Luke-Jr> sure, the website says it's not allowed... but if I'm the legal owner, screw them =p
00:33 <spidey> it never fails
00:33 <spidey> i get the totally shitty team in fortress :(
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> let that be a lesson, don't delete the old directory until the CD is done ripping
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> it got stuck 87% in the song Youthenasia, which is like the best song on the album
00:52 <spidey> lol
01:07 <spidey> #g 25455+70964+28764
01:07 <armabot> spidey: 25,455 + 70,964 + 28,764 = 125,183
01:07 <spidey> #g 125183/2
01:07 <armabot> spidey: 125,183 / 2 = 62,591.5
01:09 <spidey> 69234+76212+59904
01:09 <spidey> gr
01:10 <spidey> #g 69234+76212+59904
01:10 <armabot> spidey: 69,234 + 76,212 + 59,904 = 205,350
01:10 <spidey> #g 205250/2
01:10 <armabot> spidey: 205,250 / 2 = 102,625
01:14 <spidey> #g 106964+41870+25282
01:14 <armabot> spidey: 106,964 + 41,870 + 25,282 = 174,116
01:15 <spidey> 174116/2
01:15 <spidey> #g 174116/2
01:15 <armabot> spidey: 174,116 / 2 = 87,058
01:33 <spidey> you break it luci?
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> looks like wrtlprnft might have changed something that broke the old map, but my map looks just like his in the cockpit file
01:35 <spidey> heh
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> this sucks
01:36 <spidey> radar for tron is nice,would stop me from glancing and dying
01:36 <spidey> lol
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft the map is broke. Won't show at all from my cockpit file. Weird thing is, the default map works fine.
01:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't stop you from glancing and dying. :)
01:36 <spidey> lmao
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> well, that's mostly because it's a map of the whole grid. I'd like to change it to behave more like a radar (configurable, of course)
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm going in without a map, and will likely be somewhat crippled. I've grown to depend on it a lot.
01:37 <spidey> hehehe
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> found the change
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft looks like the line antialiasing thing you committed is what broke it. The map is there, it's just very dim.
01:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
01:52 <[Xpert]DarkStar> morning
01:55 <spidey> hi
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02:42 <luke-jr_> How good a dual is a Xeon 550 MHz w/ 100 GB RAID and 1 GB DDR RAM for $250?
02:43 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know
02:54 <luke-jr_> How good a deal is*
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03:18 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know how good a deal is *
03:26 <spidey> hahaha
03:26 <spidey> i just pissed one of my soldat admins off
03:26 <spidey> :)
03:27 <spidey> they like to admin kill the bots,so i made a script that kills them when they use it
03:27 <spidey> i might change it to a kick
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03:49 <joda_bot> #message guru3* update topic to 0.2.8.2 has been released!
03:49 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
03:49 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
03:49 -!- guru3 changed the topic of #armagetron to: 0.2.8.2 has been released! | http://armagetronad.net/ | Watch out for ~walls from the future~ !!!
03:49 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o guru3] by guru3
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04:38 <Luke-Jr> hrm
04:38 <Luke-Jr> AA froze my system twice in a row :/
04:39 <Luke-Jr> it'd be kinda cool to find a use for Myst music ;)
04:49 <joda_bot> hi Luke-Jr
04:49 <joda_bot> So you suggest customizing armagetronad by environment variables ?
04:50 <joda_bot> If I understood wrtlprnft forwarded message
04:54 <Luke-Jr> no
04:54 <Luke-Jr> well, sortof
04:54 <Luke-Jr> could be implemented using env vars or just acting similar
04:55 <Luke-Jr> the game would set its hardcoded name when it starts of course
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05:00 <Luke-Jr> hm, think I located my sound problem
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> what is it?
05:03 <Luke-Jr> well, it seems OSS emulation was near-muted
05:03 <Luke-Jr> however, now that it's fixed, I still get absolutely nothing from AA
05:06 <Luke-Jr> I suspect if I got back to the crackling stage, it'd work
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> fool with sound_buffer_size
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> I think you have to restart between changes
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> x * 512 = 64 gets you back to where it was
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64/512
05:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64 / 512 = 0.125
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> set sound_buffer_size to 0.125 :)
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you hve to restart between changes, that value is only used once
05:09 <Luke-Jr> where am I supposed to fool with it?
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> console?
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> it should be saved to user.cfg
05:09 <Luke-Jr> o
05:10 <Luke-Jr> 25 did nothing
05:11 <Luke-Jr> same w/ 0.125
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> you restarted between changes
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> ?
05:14 * Lucifer_arma is downloading neverball source right now to see what they do different
05:15 <Luke-Jr> yes
05:16 <Luke-Jr> once upon a time, it did work for me =p
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> neverball is just 1 channel sound?!?
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, try this:
05:19 <Luke-Jr> dunno
05:19 <Luke-Jr> my leads were correct
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> line 275 in eSoundMixer.cpp is this:
05:19 <Luke-Jr> SDL_AUDIODRIVER="alsa" works
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> rc = Mix_OpenAudio( frequency, AUDIO_S16LSB,
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> change it to:
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> rc = Mix_OpenAudio( frequency, MIX_DEFAULT_FORMAT,
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> if that works, commit. :)
05:20 <Luke-Jr> engine/eSoundMixer.cpp:273: warning: converting to `int' from `float'
05:20 <Luke-Jr> FYI
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> fine, afaik
05:21 <Luke-Jr> it didn't work
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> it multiplies a float times a constant and assigns to an int
05:21 * Luke-Jr suggests explicit casting ;p
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> well I'm stumped for now. I wonder if it has something to do with being athlon64 instead, but the change you just made should have brought it in line with whatever sdl_mixer was compiled with
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> and makes it almost identical to what neverball does
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> how many output channels does your soundcard have?
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05:23 <Luke-Jr> 6?
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> SOUNDCHANNELS 6 ?
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> er
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> SOUND_CHANNELS 6
05:24 <Luke-Jr> no idea?
05:24 <Luke-Jr> o
05:24 <Luke-Jr> yes, I think I have that
05:24 <Luke-Jr> yes
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer doesn't actually know, you just pump in a number and hope it works
05:25 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: When will we have the cycle's engine noise back ?
05:25 * Lucifer_arma grumbles about sdl_sound not being able to figure it out
05:25 <joda_bot> or does it work for you ?
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: gonna be a little while. I'm restructuring the thing on account of I had an epiphany about how badly I was designing it
05:26 <joda_bot> ok ;)
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> in the future there will be a sSmallMixer class that game objects will carry around with them
05:27 <joda_bot> It's really amazing how much I got used to this humming noise ... I really get surprised by some attacks without the sound indicating someone approaching
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> I figure I'm going to factor all existing sound code, even the old stuff, into 3 modules. base, sdl, and sdl_mixer, and that should bring the engine back
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, I never played with sound before there was music. :) So I don't miss the cycle noise...
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> then I'll work on my special loaders, libmad, libvorbis directly, maybe even libflac, libsndfile. After that, I can start in on the openAl stuff, but by then we should have everything we had before + music already
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, a good sound system is dependency hell, and some people don't care about sound. So I'd like them not to suffer dependency hell if they don't have to, but those of us that want a really good system can pay the price.
05:30 <joda_bot> Might be a good idea to first get the more powerful parts designed or coded
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> (and I've already got all those dependencies installed anyway)
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> more powerful parts?
05:30 <joda_bot> Once you have a working openal implementation running, the other sound backend with less capabilites should be easy
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, yeah, except that to get there there's a whole ton of work, in the meantime you're stuck with what you've got now
05:31 <joda_bot> :-)
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> some of it depends on how much work doing a given thing with sdl_mixer might be. That's why I'm wanting to resurrect the old code and factor it into its own space,
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> so I can work there instead. See, for openAL, I need loaders for all the audio file formats, openAL doesn't provide them.
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> that means I have to write them. :)
05:32 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: or we can just detect what we support at build time...
05:32 <Luke-Jr> eg, only support FLAC if we have libflac
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> then I have to test with an unfamiliar api. Instead I'd like to test with a known working system, i.e. SDL
05:32 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yeah, that's roughly my plan. First check if the user wants sound compiled at all, then see what libraries are there, then build as much as possible
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> output gentle warnings indicating that "to get better sound, you should install <this>"
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> of course, our binaries should be built with everything as much as possible. If we can do so without having the program fail to load if dependencies aren't satisfied.
05:34 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: of course, if they use --with-flac, make that an error ;)
05:34 <Luke-Jr> oh, that's always possible
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> right, exactly. :)
05:34 <Luke-Jr> just ugly
05:34 <Luke-Jr> you'd need to use dlopen and such
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. I suspected as much. Maybe we'll statically link openAL. I think libmad and libvorbis are reasonable to expect a user to already have. :)
05:35 <Luke-Jr> and have your own internal headers
05:35 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: phew, while reading I thought you really want to code the file format loaders yourself ;)
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, yeah? You mean decode the compressed music myself?
05:36 <Luke-Jr> C is ugly for dynamic linking
05:36 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: ?
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05:36 <joda_bot> Shouldn't the libraries take care of the decoding ?
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> I have to code the loaders myself--using libvorbis, libmad, et al.
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer uses smpeg, which sucks ass, really.
05:36 <joda_bot> yeah, sure it's adapters to the libraries right ?
05:37 <joda_bot> ok .. no clue ;)
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. You can call it whatever you want, joda, but it's "load this stuff from disc and put it in memory"
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's a loader to me
05:37 <joda_bot> :-)
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #ifdef FWFLASH_INCLUDE_TYPEDEFS
05:37 <Luke-Jr> # define API(return, fname, ...) typedef return(*fname)(__VA_ARGS__);
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #else
05:37 <Luke-Jr> # define API(return, fname, ...) extern return fname (__VA_ARGS__);
05:37 <Luke-Jr> #endif
05:37 <joda_bot> It's just not you doing the decoding part ;)
05:37 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: mmap is better, IMO
05:37 <joda_bot> or your code
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, shit no, why would I do that? That's what libraries are for!
05:38 <Luke-Jr> hehe
05:38 <joda_bot> right, and that was what I thought while reading the first few lines :-)
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> we might need to bundle libsamplerate too. I want to use that to resample, it's probably waaaay better than whatever sdl uses (unless sdl uses it already)
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> but I don't know that I've ever seen it as a package for a distribution. Could be wrong...
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> so what else do we need for 0.3?
05:51 <Luke-Jr> we don't *need* anything, other than testing
05:51 <Luke-Jr> well, not even testing... just not broken
05:52 <Luke-Jr> 0.3 has no feature requirements, tho
05:52 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why change the sample rate unless we do actual mixing?
05:52 <Lucifer_arma> so what's broken? i.e. how soon can we release it?
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: well, we will do actual mixing at some point, I'm sure. The point of changing the sample rate is to improve performance by using a lower sample rate
05:53 <Lucifer_arma> that means if we're loading the samples ourselves, we need to change them from what they were to what we want.
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> music is a different story, there's no point to resampling on the fly for the sake of performance
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you don't load music into memory and resample it there in a cache
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> so the point of resampling music on the fly is only to allow it to mix with sound effects that were resampled at load time
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's a tradeoff, really. I intend to store our sound effects as 22.05khz ogg vorbis files, which makes them really really small and lets us cram more in a distribution
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> we'll need to be able to resample those to 44.1khz to match music
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer seems to have no problem resampling vorbis files, but it won't resample mp3
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> so maybe I can give it a libmad loader that resamples for us
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> libsamplerate is really really fast, and high quality to boot
05:56 <Luke-Jr> MIDI makes them really really small and flawless music quality ;)
05:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: if you need help with resampling, a friend of mine reimplements various codecs and sample stuff in his free time
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> flawless mediocre music quality
05:57 <joda_bot> he's really good at that...
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> midi also requires the user (in linux) to download a 64MB sample set
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: I'll keep that in mind, but libsamplerate is already written, well-tested, GPL, etc.
05:57 <Luke-Jr> or use hardware acceleration
05:57 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: for 0.3 I might add customizable teamname support
05:58 <Luke-Jr> tho for all I know hardware MIDI sucks
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> you see Luke-Jr, there is no hardware midi in linux. SDL_mixer uses timidity to render it
05:58 <joda_bot> z-man: Should the network protocol version be upgraded for that ?
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's cpu intensive, more so than mod or vorbis
05:58 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: pretty sure OSS supports MIDI
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> pretty sure it doesn't
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> even alsa doesn't
05:58 <Luke-Jr> I don't doubt ALSA lacks it
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, some cards, but very very few
05:58 <joda_bot> z-man: because syncing a player also sends the player's prefered teamname then
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> oss doesn't either
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> that's why timidity was written in the first place
05:59 <joda_bot> hm, seems not be here ;)
05:59 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: note appended data doesn't usually break old stuff
05:59 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: it does not except someone else extends the protocol wihtout increasing the version ;)
05:59 <joda_bot> or whatever
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> oss = crap. alsa = ruling sound system. neither have midi
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> timidity sounds real nice, but it's cpu intensive. I don't think anybody's going to be willing to give up framerate for midi music, but they might be willing to do so for good vorbis or mp3 music
06:00 <joda_bot> I could even keep the player syncs as they are
06:00 <joda_bot> and just send a "/teamname name" chat command ;)
06:00 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: the MIDI howto says you lie
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> ?
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> link?
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> link?
06:01 <Luke-Jr> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/MIDI-HOWTO.html#s6
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it only says I lie when you take what I'm saying out of context
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you can hook up a midi instrument to your sound card and expect support for it
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> that's fundamentally different than pumping a midi file into the soundcard and expecting it to play it for you
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06:04 <Lucifer_arma> you can do that with alsa (not oss afaik), but to hear the music you have to plugin a midi instrument
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> which is *not* what we're talking about doing
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> we're talking about using a soundcard's onboard synth to play the midi file, which is not supported, and nowhere do I see in this howto how to set it up
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> last I checked, only a very few cards were supported, and to get those to work you first had to find a firmware to stick on them
06:06 <Luke-Jr> amidi -l
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, sdl doesn't support that stuff. It uses timidity, and afaik, openAL doesn't bother with it
06:06 <Luke-Jr> ok
06:06 <Luke-Jr> so why does KMid play via /dev/sequencer?
06:06 <Luke-Jr> /dev/sequencer is OSS
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> timidity has a daemon mode where it accepts midi events through /dev/sequencer
06:07 <Luke-Jr> so?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'd assume that's why. oss had a /dev/sequencer device, but it only worked for the paid drivers, I think
06:07 <Luke-Jr> and ALSA emulation =p
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, but all that does is send midi events to the network
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> you have to have a synth to play it
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> timidity will receive events and play it, it's a synth
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> there are others, timidity isn't really preferred by the hardcore music people
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> because it doesn't support soundfonts
06:08 <Luke-Jr> o
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot the name of the one people prefer, I use timidity :)
06:09 <Luke-Jr> well, anyway
06:09 <Luke-Jr> does any OS lack MIDI support by default? =p
06:09 <Luke-Jr> other than Gentoo
06:09 <Luke-Jr> 64 MB isn't much if you already have it
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, for our purposes, using midi files is supported by all os's. ON windows, hardware synth is used if it's there.
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> we can rely on the patch set being there for most people, but we have to get back to performance
06:10 <Luke-Jr> MIDI is worse for performance than Vorbis?
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> which is that timidity takes a lot of cpu cycles compared to vorbis or libmad
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> timidity is
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> which is what sdl_mixer uses
06:10 <Luke-Jr> hrm
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> we're better off using mod files in that case
06:11 <Luke-Jr> oh well
06:11 <Luke-Jr> maybe someday
06:11 <Luke-Jr> I'm not familiar with mod
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> mod is very nice. :) Except that I don't like working with either mod or midi
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> mod is midi without the crappy sounds, it includes its instruments in the file
06:11 <Luke-Jr> my experience with mod = MegaZeux used it for music
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's very common for games precisely because it was invented for games
06:12 <Luke-Jr> does it support dependencies/includes?
06:12 <Luke-Jr> eg, myinstruments.mod used by music.mod
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not that I know of
06:12 <Luke-Jr> I'd think so if it was designed for games...
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> there are XM instrument files
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> but when you use them in a mod file, the instruments get embedded
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> the file is optimized for loading into memory and then seeking/skipping around
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> it was designed on a 7mhz processor with 4 8-bit sound channels
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> max sampling rate of 22.05khz (when designed)
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's not that big of a deal when you see what the instruments are, and every mod format has a compression algorithm of some sort for the instruments
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> cheesy, but we're talking about 1-2k samples
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> (ok, samples are actually a bit bigger than that)
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer supports them. If you can get a converter for your midi file, we're better off going with mod for the midis you want :)
06:21 <joda_bot> uhm, mod's are fine to play some amiga style music, but adding a simple midi support does not hurt (IMHO) even if it's slow without tainted kernel support or due to software emulation
06:21 <joda_bot> sdl does not support midi ?
06:22 <Luke-Jr> OMG
06:22 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux was ported to Linux
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> sdl_mixer supports several mod formats, midi, vorbis, and mp3
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> and I think you need to update your information on mod files, there are some beautiful mods available :)
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/
06:24 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I've used and made some mods, I know their capabilites ;)
06:25 <joda_bot> axel_f is old classic ;)
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> apparently not. :) You can make mods that are indistinguishable in quality from a recorded piece of music
06:25 * joda_bot might scare Lucifer_arma by sending him an old composition ;)
06:25 <joda_bot> Not with the classic mod formats ;)
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> old isn't good enough, how about something using recent mod tools?
06:26 <joda_bot> might be they've extented it
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> we're not talking classic mod formats, we're talking what's in current use
06:26 <joda_bot> oh alright
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> they've been extended to support cd quality sound.
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> which is all we're talking about anyway
06:26 <joda_bot> ah, I thought we're talking about the old format and never knew they've changed the standard
06:27 <joda_bot> I knew there are other formats around xm... anothers but mod always was the same to me
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> never was a standard. :) There's just 4-5 different formats out there, and we're limited only by what mikmod supports
06:27 <joda_bot> 64 patterns of 256 notes or something along the lines, can't remember
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> the classic mod format hasn't changed, it's still sucky. But that's not what's generally meant anymore when you say "mod". You're including xm and it and some others
06:28 <joda_bot> ah alright :-)
06:28 * Lucifer_arma never used a mod program that limited you to 64 notes in a pattern
06:28 <joda_bot> not 64 notes
06:28 <joda_bot> ah it's called tacts
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> 64 was always the default, but you could always change it. Of course, I used MED back in the day on the amiga, which was more powerful than soundtracker on the pc
06:28 <joda_bot> one pattern is limited to certain amount of tacts
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> but you can change it
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> and each pattern can be different
06:29 <joda_bot> with my classic modedit dos tool that was not possible
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> also, by changed the tempo of a pattern, you can get the timing you want anyway. The only catch was getting triplets
06:29 <joda_bot> sure and repeated and arragend
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> the only problem was the way different tones were constructed, but you can use different samples in an instrument now, in xm at least
06:30 <joda_bot> I wrote a pascal tool, that reads the mod file and outputs a note sheet in ascii
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> and soundtracker on linux works very well
06:30 <joda_bot> note sheet = displaying the pattern and notes
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> I want a good midi->mod converter for linux
06:30 <joda_bot> no idea
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> I can compose music with rosegarden just fine, the staff-based editor is useful to me. But the standard tracker editor is not useful to me. :(
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> be even better if I had a midi pickup on my guitar. :) Then I could just play the music.
06:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/T/talkshow.s3m <--- interesting
06:36 <Lucifer_arma> amarok plays mods on my machine
06:36 <Luke-Jr> um
06:36 <Luke-Jr> anyhow
06:37 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux is cool
06:37 <Luke-Jr> :)
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06:39 <joda_bot> hi Nixda777 ;)
06:39 <Nixda777> guten morgen ;) hi folks....
06:39 <Nixda777> ... if anyone else is out there...
06:39 <joda_bot> ?!
06:39 <joda_bot> ;)
06:39 <joda_bot> I already said hi ;)
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06:40 <joda_bot> O.o
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06:41 <joda_bot> test
06:41 <joda_bot> hm, works for me
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06:43 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux for Linux
06:43 <Luke-Jr> ... such great news
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06:49 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that one was pretty cool
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/D/dansze.xm <--- this one's good
06:52 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux!
06:53 <Lucifer_arma> wake me when there's Ebonstar
06:53 <joda_bot> http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/23/fun-with-physics-oblivions-domino-effect/
06:54 <joda_bot> just say / post something random
06:57 <Lucifer_arma> after you listen to that second mod file I linked :)
06:58 <joda_bot> foobar plays it fine, but it does not show any samples for it
06:58 <joda_bot> is it still a mod ?
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's a mod. xm
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> amarok reports the size at really really big
07:01 <joda_bot> hm, perhaps xm uses generated samples
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> no, xm uses regular samples like everybody else
07:04 <joda_bot> strange thought foobar would display those then
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> many players have problems with mod files for some reason, where they won't display the contents right but have no problem playing them
07:04 <joda_bot> it does so for mod
07:04 <Lucifer_arma> mod != xm
07:04 <joda_bot> I know I know
07:04 <joda_bot> but the concept is similiar ?
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> they're the same thing, just different formats. So it's like your media player showing id3 tags just fine, but can't show id2 tags. In either case, it plays the song just fine...
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> I know, people use instrument names to store song credits.
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> amarok didn't even let me see that, though. Heh. Just gave the wrong file size and played the song
07:07 <joda_bot> :-)
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> that song struck me as a good fortress goalie song. :) I emailed the author to ask if we can have it and some of his other songs.
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> I expect he'll say no, most musicians I've talked to object to music being distributed under GPL-like terms :(
07:09 <joda_bot> I guess we just have to ask for it, and some people will love to make some music
07:09 <Lucifer_arma> the only person in the community who's stepped up to the plate was raoul duke, and he left.
07:10 <Lucifer_arma> I posted in the mod archive forums.
07:10 <Lucifer_arma> We're basically either waiting for someone to appear and give us music, or me to find time to make it.
07:10 * Lucifer_arma doesn't think people are going to be happy if his music is all that ships with the game
07:12 <joda_bot> It'll only work with a bit of advertisement
07:12 <joda_bot> and most people will probably want to test their tracks somehow
07:13 <joda_bot> so either you explain the requirements , e.g. loopable songs playable for special events
07:13 <joda_bot> like X-wing used event based music
07:13 <joda_bot> If a enemy fleet entered the game it played the dark empire tracks ;)
07:14 <joda_bot> or just request free songs
07:14 <joda_bot> I might ask for some music on tron-sector.com forums
07:14 <joda_bot> it's a pretty tron addicted community
07:14 <joda_bot> and they are focused on the original game or tron 2.0
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> sure, just make sure that people understand that we get the last say on what we use and they shouldn't be disappointed if we don't pick their music
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> right now and for the foreseeable future it's just playlist stuff. We also need a title theme to play when the app starts.
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's just playlist stuff. The music ideally would be loopable as well, and we may ultimately throw out music that doesn't loop, but right now it has to fit into a playlist
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't have to match what's around it terribly, we can work out a system to match music together.
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> you know, so you're not listening to somewhat contradictory styles of music. This isn't a problem for me, but might be for some.
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> if you're hearing speed metal, you can reasonably expect the next song not to be dixieland jazz, for example. :)
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/4)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 4)^2) = 0.998047511
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/2)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 2)^2) = 0.968912422
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (3/4)^2 )
07:27 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((3 / 4)^2) = 0.845924499
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( 1 )
07:28 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos(1) = 0.540302306
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*0.998 + 2*0.9689 + 2*0.8459 + 0.5403
07:28 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 0.998) + (2 * 0.9689) + (2 * 0.8459) + 0.5403 = 7.1659
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 2*0.998 + 2*0.9689 + 2*0.8459 + 0.5403) * 8
07:29 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (2 * 0.998) + (2 * 0.9689) + (2 * 0.8459) + 0.5403) * 8 = 57.3272
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (1/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((1 / 8)^2) = 0.999877932
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (3/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((3 / 8)^2) = 0.990128588
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (5/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((5 / 8)^2) = 0.924671261
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> #g cos( (7/8)^2 )
07:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cos((7 / 8)^2) = 0.720949381
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.9999*1/4 + 0.9901*1/4 + 0.9247*1/4 + 0.7209*1/4
07:31 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ((0.9999 * 1) / 4) + ((0.9901 * 1) / 4) + ((0.9247 * 1) / 4) + ((0.7209 * 1) / 4) = 0.9089
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1/4)/2
07:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 / 4) / 2 = 0.125
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g 7.1659/8
07:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 7.1659 / 8 = 0.8957375
07:36 * Lucifer_arma spams the irc channel with more math
07:42 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: on windows the app blocks and plays the intro music and then displays the splash ...
07:43 <joda_bot> not sure why the splash gets delays for so long
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> blocks? YOu should be able to hit a key to close the splash early...
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> it might be delayed loading something
07:45 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: fixed the map
07:45 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: it's delaying for about 2 seconds atleast
07:46 <joda_bot> music is playing
07:46 <wrtlprnft> it wasn't the antialiasing that broke it, it was some opengl lines i commented out since they looked unncessary, the map worked without them in the default and my cockpit file
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: that's gotta be some initialization or something. Maybe drop some comments in there to see what's taking so long?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: ah, ok. I reverted my local file so I could play. :)
07:49 * Lucifer_arma wonders what's so different about his cockpit file that the map broke
07:52 <Lucifer_arma> sometimes calculus is really annoying
07:53 <wrtlprnft> maybe it depends on what the last rendered widget was
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07:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134/8 + 0.1927708/8 + 0.80139415/8 + 1.8528054/8 + 3.0628007/8 + 3.8767477/8 + 3.6198073/8 + 1.6923026/8
07:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.00752134 / 8) + (0.1927708 / 8) + (0.80139415 / 8) + (1.8528054 / 8) + (3.0628007 / 8) + (3.8767477 / 8) + (3.6198073 / 8) + (1.6923026 / 8) = 1.88826875
07:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: mind updating and checing if it really disappeared for you?
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> fixed, thanks :)
07:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
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07:58 <Lucifer_arma> have you updated the NEWS file yet?
07:58 * Lucifer_arma thinks he put all his news in there, but may have missed something
08:00 <wrtlprnft> not yet
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, simpson's rule doesn't look as a annoying as I thought it would look.
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08:13 <Lucifer_arma> these pencils suck. Every lead in them was broken on purchase. Luckily I have extras, but still!
08:20 <wrtlprnft> complain and demand new ones!
08:20 <wrtlprnft> ok, what do i put in news now
08:20 <wrtlprnft> tab completion, cockpit, font, anything else?
08:21 <Luke-Jr> MegaZeux
08:21 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:21 <Luke-Jr> for Linux
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> #g 4*0.0590146 + 2*0.43617901 + 4*1.2822645 + 2*2.4674011 + 4*3.5618459 + 2*3.9256111 + 4*2.8917152
08:21 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (4 * 0.0590146) + (2 * 0.43617901) + (4 * 1.2822645) + (2 * 2.4674011) + (4 * 3.5618459) + (2 * 3.9256111) + (4 * 2.8917152) = 44.8377432
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> that reminds me, while you're in there, can you add "/console chat command" ?
08:21 <wrtlprnft> ok
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> std::string change
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> do we use utf8 internally now, or still working on it?
08:22 <wrtlprnft> stuill working
08:23 <wrtlprnft> that is, i have no idea on how to convert from utf-8 to utf-16
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: guru3 Luke-Jr z-man update NEWS file :)
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> do we need to do that conversion?
08:23 <Luke-Jr> no
08:23 <Luke-Jr> UTF-16 is useless
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> #g (pi/24)*44.8377432
08:24 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (pi / 24) * 44.8377432 = 5.86924686
08:24 <wrtlprnft> we do need it
08:24 <wrtlprnft> FTGL only seems to take utf-16
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> does utf-16 collapse to utf8?
08:25 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:25 <z-man> heh, right, forgot about std::string ;)
08:25 * Lucifer_arma wonders if you can just pad the extra bytes with 0s
08:25 * z-man thought he hadn't touched the trunk at all
08:26 <Luke-Jr> UTF-16 is 16-bit chars
08:26 <wrtlprnft> I don't think so
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> so z-man, using the midpoint rule to estimate the definite integral I get 1.88somestuff, and using Simpson's rule, I get 5.89someotherstuff
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> do I need to worry? :)
08:26 <Luke-Jr> what if we want to use characters beyond the 16-bit boundary?
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> the function is x^2 sin(x)
08:26 <wrtlprnft> no clue...
08:27 <z-man> What is simpson's rule again?
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> and the interval is 0->pi
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> using parabolas to estimate the value of a definite integral
08:27 <z-man> Hmm, that integral looks like it's exactly solvable
08:28 <z-man> are you using the rules for the whole interval?
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> it is, I'm supposed to compare the two estimates to the exact value. working on the exact value right now
08:29 <z-man> In that case, since sin(x) has a good maximum at pi/2, it would be expected that the midpoint rule (was that "evaluate the integrand at the middle of the interval" would give you more.
08:29 <Luke-Jr> z-man: someone ported MegaZeux to Linux :)
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> midpoint rule is making a bunch of rectangles under the graph, using the midpoint of the interval determined by the number of rectangles
08:29 <z-man> what is MegaZeux?
08:30 <Luke-Jr> a GCS
08:30 <z-man> And that is?
08:31 <Luke-Jr> game creation system
08:32 <z-man> Oh great.
08:33 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: how are you fitting the parabola in simpson's rule?
08:34 <z-man> Through the midpoint and the edge points of the interval (so here, it would match the function at 0, pi/2 and pi)?
08:34 <wrtlprnft> ok, added my news, too :)
08:34 <joda_bot> is there need to hurry ?
08:34 <wrtlprnft> z-man: haha, i found that warning in eSound, too :P
08:34 <wrtlprnft> didn
08:35 <wrtlprnft> *was planning to fix it with my next commit
08:35 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: if so, it should give you 2/3 the value of the midpoint rule here, because your function is zero at the ends.
08:35 <joda_bot> because I'll have check the teamname stuff for behaviour changes
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, the lecture just showed us to use parabolas to approximate the graph, integrate the parabolas instead, and then memorize this formula that does it for us :)
08:36 <z-man> #g pi ^ 3 / 4
08:36 <armabot> z-man: (pi^3) / 4 = 7.75156917
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> so you take the same deltax and use the left and right side where it intersects the graph, then the midpoint, and use those three points to make the parabola
08:36 <z-man> That's what I get for the midpoint rule
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> or, use this nice formula :)
08:36 * Lucifer_arma wonders if we're using the same terminology for this
08:36 <z-man> I think so, yes.
08:37 <z-man> At least I understand what you're saying :)
08:37 <z-man> The function values in question are f(0) = 0, f(pi) = 0, and f(pi/2) = (pi/2)^2
08:37 <z-man> so the midpoint rule should give pi * f(pi/2), which I just fed to google
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I left something out. For n=8 rectangles
08:37 <z-man> ah
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> :)
08:38 <z-man> then your results should be more similar and you should be worried :)
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> they get 5.932957 in the back of the book
08:38 <z-man> The function is rather smooth.
08:39 <z-man> Perhaps you should compare your results interval by interval?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> away school
08:40 <wrtlprnft> oops
08:40 <wrtlprnft> /away school
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134/8 + 0.1927708/8 + 0.80139415/8 + 1.8528054/8 + 3.0628007/8 + 3.8767477/8 + 3.6198073/8 + 1.6923026/8
08:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.00752134 / 8) + (0.1927708 / 8) + (0.80139415 / 8) + (1.8528054 / 8) + (3.0628007 / 8) + (3.8767477 / 8) + (3.6198073 / 8) + (1.6923026 / 8) = 1.88826875
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I see my mistake now
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> I left the pi out of the delta x
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.00752134pi/8 + 0.1927708pi/8 + 0.80139415pi/8 + 1.8528054pi/8 + 3.0628007pi/8 + 3.8767477pi/8 + 3.6198073pi/8 + 1.6923026pi/8
08:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ((0.00752134 * pi) / 8) + ((0.1927708 * pi) / 8) + ((0.80139415 * pi) / 8) + ((1.8528054 * pi) / 8) + ((3.0628007 * pi) / 8) + ((3.8767477 * pi) / 8) + ((3.6198073 * pi) / 8) + ((1.6923026 * pi) / 8) = 5.93217123
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> google rules
08:43 <z-man> looks better :)
08:44 <z-man> Your antiderivative should be easy to get if you integrate by parts, twice.
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh, we didn't cover that last semester, and we kinda skipped over it. Here's what I came up with:
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> -x^2 cos(x) + 2x sin(x) - 2 sin(x) + C <----- indefinite
08:48 <z-man> That last one should be +2 cos(x)
08:48 <z-man> or wait...
08:48 <z-man> yes, 2 cos(x)
08:49 <z-man> it's derivative needs to cancel one of the partial derivatives of 2x sin(x).
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> I follow. To pull it out of the integral you have to take its antiderivative, right?
08:49 <z-man> Right.
08:50 <z-man> And your first term, -x^2 cos(x), produces x^2 sin(x) - 2x cos(x) as a derivative.
08:50 <z-man> The first one, you want, the second one needs cancellation.
08:51 <z-man> So you put its antiderivative in there, too, with a negative sign.
08:51 <z-man> 2 x sin(x) gives you the derivative 2 x cos(x) + 2 sin(x).
08:51 <z-man> Again, the first bit is what you want, but the second one needs cancellation.
08:52 <z-man> So you put in 2 cos(x) and you're done.
08:52 <z-man> Tha'ts integrating by parts :)
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> :) looks pretty straightforward.
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g pi^2 - 4
08:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (pi^2) - 4 = 5.8696044
08:53 <z-man> looks correct.
08:54 <Luke-Jr> 1.0 released in 1994
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> man I'm sleepy, I just went over your derivative up there 3 times, heh.
08:54 * Lucifer_arma was halfway through the definite part of the problem when you were giving the explanation, going back over it now
08:54 <z-man> The general "integration by parts" rule is: the antiderivative of (f' * g) is (f * g) minus the antiderivative of (f * g').
08:55 <z-man> Sorry, ignore me if I hinder your learning :)
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I follow it now. It's pretty straightforward.
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> nah, don't worry about it. The way the class is being divided between two teachers, we'll get to this or he'll cover it, and I'll be a little ahead.
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> Probably someone will ask about this problem. :)
09:03 <Luke-Jr> for DOS =p
09:07 <z-man> Hmm, 50000 error messages :)
09:08 <z-man> Don't save files while gcc is reading them.
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> now how the hell am I supposed to figure out the error for this? :(
09:09 <z-man> Probably just compare your results :)
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, he didn't finish covering that last time, I'll skip it and move on to these other problems that don't do it
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, yeah. heh
09:10 <z-man> But of course there is some standard way ; the error of the midpoint method is proportional to the second derivative of your function and the error of simpson, umm, I guess to the fourth derivative.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> upon rereading the directions, it looks like they just want ( actual value - approximation )
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, toher way around.
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> Yeah, we're covering the fancy formula for computing the maximum error in the approximation, but ran out of time last time to complete that part
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> this problem is early enough in the set not to expect it to use that stuff
09:11 * Lucifer_arma shouldn't do homework when he's sleepy
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> but class is a little over an hour away :)
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 19.3103276
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 19.3103276
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 2*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 2*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 2*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 2*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)/8
09:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (2 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (2 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (2 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (2 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488) / 8 = 2.41379095
09:25 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Excess Flood]
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09:26 <Lucifer_arma> spammer!
09:27 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> [09:25 am] <-- Luke-Jr has left this server. (Excess Flood)
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> [09:26 am] --> Luke-Jr has joined this channel. (n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d)
09:28 <Luke-Jr> bs
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr came on here like a hurricane hitting land
09:32 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1.0038836/4 + 1.0334411/4 + 1.0859317/4 + 1.1527221/4 + 1.2268656/4 + 1.303911/4 + 1.381319/4 + 1.457738/4
09:32 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1.0038836 / 4) + (1.0334411 / 4) + (1.0859317 / 4) + (1.1527221 / 4) + (1.2268656 / 4) + (1.303911 / 4) + (1.381319 / 4) + (1.457738 / 4) = 2.41145303
09:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 4*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 4*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 4*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 4*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)/12
09:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1 + (4 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (4 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (4 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (4 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488) / 12 = 2.41223333
09:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g (1 + 4*1.0152716 + 2*1.0573713 + 4*1.118039 + 2*1.1892071 + 4*1.2652198 + 2*1.3426748 + 4*1.4197058 + 1.4953488)
09:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1 + (4 * 1.0152716) + (2 * 1.0573713) + (4 * 1.118039) + (2 * 1.1892071) + (4 * 1.2652198) + (2 * 1.3426748) + (4 * 1.4197058) + 1.4953488 = 28.9468
09:56 * Lucifer_arma is away: school
10:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
10:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
10:34 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
10:54 -!- Lackadaisical [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #armagetron
11:07 <spidey> hey lack
11:11 <joda_bot> hi all
11:18 <Lackadaisical> hey
11:20 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
11:31 <joda_bot> :-)
11:32 <joda_bot> x3r: wants to make a national cup
11:32 <joda_bot> I'm not sure if there are not too many people trying to host competitions
11:41 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:52 -!- Lackadaisical [email@example.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
12:20 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4001 just read this
12:20 <joda_bot> so we will put all build environments into the build module ?
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> beats me
12:23 * Lucifer_arma is back.
12:28 <joda_bot> :)
12:28 <joda_bot> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=54121#54121
12:28 <joda_bot> In that post
12:28 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: don't you suggest exactly that ?
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> the build module is a different module than the armagetronad module
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> the build module currently contains the spec files for rpm and autopackage, and whatever passes for spec files for debian and ubuntu
12:39 <Lucifer_arma> it contains automation scripts for automating the builds, building a source tarball, source zip (for windows, with windows line endings), rpm, source rpm, autopackage, and uploading all of them to sourceforge
12:39 <Lucifer_arma> I'd keep the automation scripts separate, but put the other stuff in the core armagetronad module
12:42 <joda_bot> other stuff = icons ?
12:42 <joda_bot> and makedist.bat ?
12:43 <joda_bot> or just the resources required for windows builds ?
12:45 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: What about the nsi script for the windows installer ... hm would be a resource then ?
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> what about the readme file?
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> see, it's like this
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> if you use linux and you want to build the game, all you do is download the source tarball
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> if you use windows and you want to build the game, what do you have to do?
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> feels more like we're sticking to the letter of the GPL, but not quite the spirit
12:48 <Lucifer_arma> I think that you should have everything in the source tarball that's needed to build the very binary distribution we put up for download (barring automation scripts we use for our own purposes)
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> so there'd be a armagetronad/win directory, maybe with armagetronad/win/visualc and armagetronad/win/codeblocks and what-have-you
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> so yes, the .nsi file, the .spec files for the rpms, all that good stuff
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> whatever nemo uses for mac
12:49 <Lucifer_arma> there'd be a mac subdirectory
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> and to add insult to injury, the source tarball has integrated into its very structure the gnu build system. No real way around that without a lot of work we don't need to do
12:50 <Lucifer_arma> so, the convenience libraries we provide for windows users would still be in its own module. Windows folks would be expected to satisfy dependencies on their own, or at least as a separate download
12:51 <Lucifer_arma> if it were mine and only my decision to make, that's what we'd do, no question about it
12:54 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: mac builds are already in the diretory
13:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> wb z-man
13:01 * Lucifer_arma politely welcomes z-man to the channel
13:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:26 <spidey> he didn't like your welcome :p
13:27 <spidey> linux owns for servers
13:27 <spidey> 14:27:50 up 5 days, 21:43, 2 users, load average: 0.03, 0.10, 0.08
13:27 <spidey> almost idle
13:28 <spidey> i moved one of my soldat servers to it
13:28 <spidey> doesn't even phase it
13:28 <spidey> heh
13:28 <spidey> on windows i can barely play tron with it running
13:32 <MaZuffeR> spidey: the soldat server is fucked up
13:34 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: seems like z-man does not like politeness :-P
13:38 <spidey> i saw
13:38 <spidey> rebooting it
13:38 <spidey> sex
13:39 <spidey> SEC*
13:39 <MaZuffeR> ok
13:39 <spidey> NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED
13:39 <spidey> GRR I HATE THIS KEYBOARD
13:39 <spidey> -caps
13:40 <spidey> k,it's restarted
13:46 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873B0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:49 * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man again
13:49 * spidey watches z-man leave again
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's his client just logging in and out, he's probably asleep or something
13:50 <z-man> Yeah, I'm just too lazy to log out when I put the computer to sleep
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, he's here!
13:50 <spidey> lmao
13:50 <z-man> And the DCOP stuff wrtl dug out doesn't work properly.
13:51 <Lucifer_arma> ? for what?
13:51 <z-man> (That's basically why I'm marked as away, to tell you you can't rely on my presence)
13:51 <z-man> DCOP to tell kopete to log out
13:52 <z-man> It works quite well, but not from the apmd pre-sleep scripts
13:52 <z-man> When they get called, kopete is already frozen
13:52 * Lucifer_arma is away: Gone away for now.
13:52 <Lucifer_arma> oops
13:53 <Lucifer_arma> that's not what I meant to do, heh
13:53 * Lucifer_arma loves dcop
13:53 * Lucifer_arma is back.
13:53 <spidey> that was fast
13:53 <spidey> you know what
13:54 <spidey> i think i registered this name along ass time ago
13:54 <spidey> ut i can't remember the pass :/
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> Hi there
13:55 <spidey> damn maz plays soldat like he plays tron
13:55 * spidey glad i didn't make a combat server
13:55 <spidey> s:s
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> man, you can't just say to a channel, it's either all or none
13:56 <spidey> wth are you on about?
13:56 <Lucifer_arma> messing with dcop, sorry
13:56 <spidey> lmfao
13:56 * spidey saw a file .dcop in his /home dir
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's a command, too
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> type dcop into a terminal
13:57 * spidey is still a nix noob :p
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> dcop is kde stuff
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's intry-process communicable or something like that
13:57 <spidey> uoh
13:57 <spidey> oh
13:58 <spidey> ok his short in the keyboard wire is annoying
13:58 <Lucifer_arma> dcop kwin KWinInterface nextDesktop <--- put that in a terminal
13:59 <spidey> cool
13:59 <spidey> i removed those little multi-desktop tabs though
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> do dcop to get a list of services available
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> then dcop <service> for a list of interfaces
13:59 <Lucifer_arma> then dcop <service> <interface> for a list of functions that do stuff
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> and don't forget about control-tab
14:00 <spidey> hmm
14:01 <spidey> i'm still amazed at my loads
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> eat less beans?
14:01 <spidey> 15:01:45 up 5 days, 22:17, 2 users, load average: 0.15, 0.30, 0.21
14:01 <Lucifer_arma> 5 days? that's it?
14:01 <spidey> not the uptime
14:02 <spidey> the loads
14:02 <spidey> i'm running that soldat server on this box
14:02 <spidey> and the loads aren't any higher
14:02 <spidey> than normal
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> 14:02:12 up 1 day, 3:13, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.18, 0.17 <--- heh heh
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> 14:02:34 up 5 days, 1:10, 1 user, load average: 1.79, 1.65, 1.58 <--- my laptop
14:02 <spidey> 1 day? thats it?
14:02 <spidey> :p
14:02 <Lucifer_arma> that's my server. Apparently it got shut down again, probably my 2 year old
14:03 <spidey> lol
14:03 <Lucifer_arma> normally it'd show more like a month or so, that's about how often between his attacks. He must have just had one recently though
14:03 <spidey> lmao
14:03 * Lucifer_arma understands now why he had to restart the distcc daemon
14:04 <spidey> i'ma try to gather some spare parts i got here and throw togethor a bsd box
14:04 <spidey> i got a 133mhz mobo
14:04 <spidey> lmao
14:05 <spidey> socket A
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> good car computer
14:05 <spidey> it was made back in '95
14:05 <spidey> it's a ibm processor
14:07 <spidey> it's got 4 sticks of 74pin ram
14:07 <spidey> heh
14:10 <GodTodd> 74 pin?
14:10 <joda_bot> What sound better to the american / british audience ?
14:10 <joda_bot> Amount of points you get get for dying
14:10 <joda_bot> What you get for dying
14:10 <spidey> DIMM and SIMMram....
14:11 <spidey> it's old ram
14:11 <joda_bot> ups ... only one get ;)
14:11 <GodTodd> thought the old stuff was 72 pin...
14:11 <spidey> yea
14:11 * spidey has bad memory
14:11 <GodTodd> i know 72 pin is butt expensive now
14:11 * spidey takes that statement back cause he knows what luci's gonna say
14:12 <joda_bot> So What you get for dying or Amount of points you get for dying ?
14:12 <joda_bot> which help text sounds better ?
14:12 <spidey> 0
14:13 <joda_bot> is 0 an answer ? :-P
14:13 * spidey don't think you should get points for dying
14:13 <spidey> simpley because.....you died
14:13 <spidey> simplely
14:13 <joda_bot> 1) Amount of points you get for killing someone
14:13 <joda_bot> 2) What you get for killing someone
14:13 <joda_bot> if you prefer this case
14:13 <spidey> 1
14:14 <GodTodd> the first one i think
14:14 <joda_bot> might also shorten the 1) one to "points you get
14:14 <joda_bot> ok I'll commit my change then
14:14 <GodTodd> you could probably even truncate to "points for killing someone"
14:15 <joda_bot> ah wait , that's two out of 100+ players ...
14:15 <spidey> LOL
14:15 <joda_bot> Not sure, because that's a help text and making it too short does not explain too much
14:16 <joda_bot> Amount of points for killing somone ?
14:16 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: z-man: Lucifer_arma: bump
14:16 <spidey> you get # points for killing a opponate
14:16 <spidey> 'er
14:17 <spidey> you get # points for killing a opponent
14:17 <z-man> 1) if you ask me
14:18 * spidey trips z-man as he answers joda
14:18 * z-man falls flat on his fasse
14:18 <z-man> face
14:18 <spidey> lol
14:18 * z-man chases spidey up a tree
14:18 * spidey hides behind joda
14:19 * z-man hits yoda with a frying pan (by accident, of course)
14:19 <spidey> lol!
14:19 * joda_bot uses the force to deflect the pan to spidey
14:19 * spidey ducks and watches it fly a Lucifer_arma
14:19 * spidey points to z-man
14:19 * joda_bot can't be hit because he's only 1m heigh :-P
14:20 <spidey> leopercon
14:20 <z-man> Right, and you can't hide behind him :)
14:20 * joda_bot lights up his light saber and starts to wirl
14:20 * z-man likes the muppet joda better
14:20 <joda_bot> me too
14:21 * spidey wants a light sabre L.
14:21 <spidey> :/
14:21 * joda_bot has a heart attack and falls back to the crane walking technique
14:22 <z-man> err, back to work. I'm already half finished with my change wishes for 0.2.8.3 :)
14:22 * spidey says MaZuffeR's name to distract him while he plays soldat
14:22 <spidey> evil grin
14:22 <spidey> :>
14:24 <spidey> wtf
14:24 <spidey> MaZuffeR, the server fucking up again?
14:25 <MaZuffeR> it's working fine :)
14:25 <spidey> the same person jsut got kickbanned 3 times in 1 second
14:26 <spidey> then someone joined and got kick banned
14:26 <spidey> lol
14:26 <MaZuffeR> someone joined the zombies team, he got kicked quite fast
14:27 <spidey> ah
14:27 <spidey> well then
14:27 <spidey> seems my script's working
14:27 <spidey> last time it fucked the server up
14:27 -!- madmax|pt [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #armagetron
14:27 <madmax|pt> hello
14:29 <spidey> ok,maybe it's not working
14:29 <spidey> hey max
14:30 <madmax|pt> hi spidey
14:34 <joda_bot> hi madmax|pt
14:34 <joda_bot> pt = ?
14:34 <joda_bot> portugal ?
14:34 <madmax|pt> yep
14:34 <madmax|pt> "madmax" was already taken
14:34 <joda_bot> oh, so you know simcosmos , well ?
14:34 <madmax|pt> only talked to him a couple of times
14:34 <joda_bot> ah k
14:35 <joda_bot> I've very found memories of playing with sim in the night till 4a.m :-)
14:35 <madmax|pt> eheh
14:36 <madmax|pt> ...im curious if there's other portuguese players out there...
14:37 <spidey> if one day i just disappear,it's because my house burned down
14:37 <madmax|pt> roger that
14:37 <spidey> finished my first project,made a xbox controller work with the computer
14:37 <spidey> now for my next project
14:38 <spidey> soundcard-to-stereo converter
14:38 <joda_bot> spidey: make your computer work ?
14:38 <spidey> this should be fun
14:38 <spidey> no i made a xbox controller work with the computer
14:38 <madmax|pt> thought you were making some kind of napalm bomb
14:38 <spidey> like a gamepad...l
14:38 <spidey> max,no but when i mess with electronics,fires tend to start :p
14:38 * joda_bot thinks spidey does... you never know what happends if you combine random MS products :-P
14:39 <madmax|pt> *M$
14:39 <spidey> hmm
14:39 <madmax|pt> btw, what about a PS2 controller?
14:39 <madmax|pt> that would be nicer
14:39 <spidey> dunno
14:39 <spidey> all i did was
14:39 <spidey> i had a broken xbox
14:40 <spidey> so i took where the controller plugged in,broke it out,cut the male end of a usb ppplug,wired them together
14:40 <spidey> downloaded the drivers
14:40 <spidey> and it worked :p
14:41 <spidey> i gotta find some AUX cables
14:44 <madmax|pt> maybe some fire extinguisher too :P
14:46 <madmax|pt> ...dinner...
14:46 * madmax|pt is away: I'm busy
15:04 -!- Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: GodTodd, Luke-Jr, guru3, [2l4]FLAG_afk, SuPeRTaRD, deja_vu
15:04 -!- [NP]Tangent [email@example.com] has joined #armagetron
15:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: GodTodd, Luke-Jr, deja_vu, SuPeRTaRD, guru3, [2l4]FLAG_afk
15:05 <GodTodd> my fart wasn't THAT bad...
15:05 -!- mkzelda [firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit ["changing servers"]
15:06 -!- mkzelda [email@example.com] has joined #armagetron
15:06 <spidey> dude
15:06 <spidey> it worked
15:06 <spidey> nothing's on fire either
15:07 * spidey dances
15:10 * madmax|pt is back (gone 00:24:50)
15:11 <spidey> max
15:11 <spidey> it worked
15:11 * spidey is playing music on is stereo via his nix box
15:11 <spidey> :D
15:12 <madmax|pt> eheh
15:12 <madmax|pt> 2-0 i guess
15:12 <spidey> now my next project....
15:12 <spidey> any ideas?
15:12 <madmax|pt> linux @ ipod
15:13 <madmax|pt> lol
15:13 <madmax|pt> http://ipodlinux.org/Main_Page
15:13 <spidey> i don't have a ipod
15:13 <madmax|pt> oh
15:14 <madmax|pt> maybe that napalm bomb then?
15:15 <spidey> lol
15:15 <spidey> something i won't get introuble for :p
15:15 <madmax|pt> hmm, its hard then
15:16 <spidey> this is awesome
15:16 <spidey> why didn't i thin about it earlier
15:17 <madmax|pt> tell me, what exactly did you do?
15:17 <spidey> ok
15:17 <spidey> you know AUX cables?
15:17 <madmax|pt> yep
15:17 <spidey> the 2 plugs yellow white and red
15:17 <spidey> i took 2 of them
15:18 <spidey> cut them inhalf
15:18 <spidey> in the middle there will be a yellow plastic tube
15:18 <spidey> that's wrapped in another wire(ground)
15:18 <spidey> pull back the lose wire and cut through the plastic peice to the wire inside
15:19 <spidey> take a old set of desktop speakers
15:19 <spidey> where the plug that goes in the output part on the soundcard is cut it off
15:19 <spidey> then strip it
15:20 <spidey> the wire you pulled back on the aux cables (the ground) wrap around the black wire on the half that plugs into the suondcard
15:20 <spidey> then take the wire that came out of the yellow plastic tube and wrap it around the other one
15:20 <spidey> plug the aux end into the stereo and the other end into the sound card
15:21 <spidey> put the stereo on AUX/GAME or whatever it is for you
15:21 <spidey> and start playing music on the computer :)
15:22 <spidey> oh
15:22 <spidey> i know what my next project's gonna be
15:22 <joda_bot> nice monologe
15:22 <spidey> a usb lamp
15:22 <spidey> yes,i try to make all this crap cause i'm lazy :p
15:23 <spidey> but it's fun too
15:25 <madmax|pt> hmm, maybe you should "pdf it" and sell on ebay
15:25 <madmax|pt> maybe you'll get some money :D
15:25 <spidey> lmao
15:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE18.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:26 <spidey> you can do just about anything with computers
15:26 <spidey> it just takes a bit of research
15:26 <madmax|pt> ... and free time
15:26 <spidey> i maybe stupid enough to try it,but i'ma read on it first :p
15:27 <spidey> yea i have alot of free time
15:27 <spidey> now my next question
15:28 <spidey> will the soundcard actually be affected
15:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE93.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:28 <spidey> i have 780 watts worth of speakers/subs
15:28 <madmax|pt> ... back to the "house burning" issue
15:28 <spidey> guess i won't play music while i'm asleep :/
16:04 <spidey> interesting
16:04 <spidey> hey max
16:07 <madmax|pt> hey
16:07 <madmax|pt> im playing
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:07 <spidey> lol
16:07 <madmax|pt> im dead now
16:07 <madmax|pt> lol
16:08 <spidey> it only works if you use another set of desktop speakers with headphone jacks as a middleman
16:09 <madmax|pt> hmm
16:14 <spidey> 17:14:18 up 6 days, 29 min, 2 users, load average: 4.47, 2.28, 1.09
16:14 <spidey> now that's a load,lol
16:15 * spidey only seems to get 1,533kb/s via lan :/
16:18 <madmax|pt> do some magic :D
16:19 <spidey> i should be getting around 50-100mbit :/
16:19 -!- SuPeRTaRD-bbl [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #armagetron
16:26 -!- SuPeRTaRD [email@example.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:53 <spidey> 17:53:07 up 6 days, 1:08, 2 users, load average: 0.27, 0.30, 0.48
16:54 <wrtlprnft> lame
16:55 <wrtlprnft> 23:54:50 up 44 days, 23:59, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
16:57 <madmax|pt> lol
16:57 * wrtlprnft creates some load
17:07 <wrtlprnft> spidey: 00:07:12 up 45 days, 12 min, 4 users, load average: 1.32, 1.17, 0.61
17:07 <wrtlprnft> take that!
17:08 <madmax|pt> 23:08 up 3:12, 2 users, load averages: 1.58 2.00 2.03
17:08 <madmax|pt> load winner
17:08 <madmax|pt> :P
17:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
17:09 <wrtlprnft> i could create more load, but i don't wanna affect my arma server too much
17:09 <wrtlprnft> that was just an emerge sync, normal thing once a day
17:35 <spidey> wrtlprnft, that load came from a ssh transfer i was doing
17:35 <spidey> 18:35:29 up 6 days, 1:51, 2 users, load average: 0.41, 0.70, 0.53
17:35 <spidey> that's my load now :p
17:39 <wrtlprnft> you'll love it just like me if you nurse your server to reach 30/50/100/etc days and then one day you make a stupid mistake or there's a power outage or something and you can wait again to beat your record :P
17:51 <spidey> lol
17:51 <spidey> when i get 100day uptime i'll be happy
17:51 <spidey> if a poweroutage doesn't get me first
17:51 <spidey> reminds me
17:51 <spidey> i gotta get old ups and rig them with car batteries
17:52 <spidey> that's my next project
17:53 <spidey> 2 car batteries per ups should last through a long power outage
17:53 <spidey> i'll need 4-5 ups
17:53 <spidey> and 8-10 car batteries
17:58 <madmax|pt> do you guys lag when you enter or leave full screen?
17:59 <spidey> yea
17:59 <spidey> KamP is a dick >.>
18:02 <madmax|pt> got some "c++ explanation" 4 that lag wrtl?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> what lag?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> oh, nvm
18:13 <wrtlprnft> yes, there is an explanation
18:13 <wrtlprnft> your graphics card needs some time to switch between the two, and in that time the game waits for it to finish
18:14 <wrtlprnft> so all network stuff that arrived or should have been sent in that time gets delayed.
18:14 <madmax|pt> hmm
18:14 <madmax|pt> thanks
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18:15 <wrtlprnft> at least that's my guess at it ;)
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18:20 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, switching screen modes takes time. The switching function just doesn't return for a while. Our hands are tied :(
18:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man: not if we get a separate thread for the UI ;)
18:43 <joda_bot> z-man: any idea which versions are currently used of vorbis, libogg etc. ?
18:43 <joda_bot> Should I look at the svn history ?
18:44 <z-man> joda_bot: I don't have a clue, was it me who added them?
18:45 <z-man> bedtime
18:48 <joda_bot> ok
18:48 <joda_bot> I'll investigate
18:48 * joda_bot prays for cvs logs ;)
18:48 * joda_bot is dumb, can check the dll versions ;)
18:48 <joda_bot> at least for some
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19:20 <wrtlprnft> the framerate meter is wrong :(
19:20 <wrtlprnft> i clearly have less than one frame per second, and it displays 10FPS
19:27 * madmax|pt is away: Sleep
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21:17 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad armagetronad
21:18 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to have this command not contain the word armagetronad 4 times?
21:22 <nemostultae> export AA_SVN=https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad
21:22 <nemostultae> svn co $AA_SVN/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad
21:22 <nemostultae> you can leave off the last armagetronad, the last path is used if you do.
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21:43 <wrtlprnft> hmm, ok...
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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.