Log from 2006-05-31:
--- Day changed Wed May 31 2006
00:13 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@12-215-177-165.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
00:14 <CraYSuPeRcOm> hey is anyone playing cvs anymore??
00:14 <CraYSuPeRcOm> #news
00:14 <armabot> CraYSuPeRcOm: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
00:15 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: CVS is no more!
00:15 <Luke-Jr> how many times must I say this?
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> that sucks
00:15 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:15 <Luke-Jr> no, CVS sucked
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i wont stand for it
00:15 <Luke-Jr> Svn is much better
00:15 <Luke-Jr> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3465
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> its almost like the spoon tourney killed it
00:16 <Luke-Jr> tourney had nothign to do with it
00:16 <Luke-Jr> we just moved to something better
00:16 <Luke-Jr> no reason to keep CVS
00:18 <CraYSuPeRcOm> man i didnt realize i have been out of the loop for so long ,i need to do some reading in the forums
00:19 <Luke-Jr> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3465
00:19 <Luke-Jr> we've been planning it for a while
00:19 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i have just been to busy to notice
00:20 <CraYSuPeRcOm> havent played armagetron with any regularity since beginning of april
00:20 <Luke-Jr> let me know how you were using CVS and I'll give you the Svn equivalent
00:20 <Luke-Jr> if you want the lastest trunk, use svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> just tinkering, nothing special, havent touched it in awhile though,
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i bookmarked the page
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> thx
00:22 <Luke-Jr> ... what page?
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> when i get some real time to devote to it again i will play with it
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
00:22 <Luke-Jr> it's a subversion repository
00:22 <Luke-Jr> you checkout the code w/ a svn client
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> sk
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> k'
00:29 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i have tortoiseSVN bust just ranout of time need to go to bed
00:32 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@12-215-177-165.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["IceChat - Chillin with the Best of em"]
00:34 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man: I think I migrated the rest of the 0.2.8 stuff to Svn
00:53 <Luke-Jr> eg, docs and such
00:53 <z-man> Ah, cool.
00:54 <Luke-Jr> z-man: post your script somewhere ;)
00:59 <z-man> done
01:04 <Luke-Jr> z-man: well, doing step-by-step, it should obviously be expected to stop and drop a shell when there's a conflict ;)
01:05 <Luke-Jr> maybe batch merges are better tho, dunno
01:07 <Luke-Jr> as far as redoing the import, post-import changes would be the same as a 4th CVS repository being imported on top of the past 3
01:20 <z-man> We've been doing batch merges for the whole 0.2.8, we probably should continue. If we have something better when 0.3 is ready to get stable, we'll reconsider.
01:20 <Luke-Jr> k
01:21 <z-man> about the import: our changes wouldn't be lost?
01:21 <Luke-Jr> well, no...
01:21 <Luke-Jr> but all working copies would probably be invalidated
01:21 <z-man> You'd just import on top of what we have?
01:21 <Luke-Jr> and I'd rather spend the time coding =p
01:21 <Luke-Jr> no, I'd import from scratch, and include Svn changes in the import
01:22 <z-man> Ok, spend the time coding. It isn't important enough anyway.
01:22 <z-man> Wrtl already took what he needed from CVS, I think :)
01:22 <Luke-Jr> and besides, the workaround I posted should work =p
01:24 <z-man> yes, I think it does. Thanks.
01:42 -!- AfterDeath [n=AfterDea@ppp-70-247-165-123.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
01:42 <AfterDeath> @help
01:42 <AfterDeath> armabot version
01:42 <armabot> AfterDeath: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
01:42 <AfterDeath> supybot
01:43 <Luke-Jr> try roulette ;)
01:43 <AfterDeath> !roulette
01:43 <Luke-Jr> #
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> AfterDeath: *click*
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
01:43 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
01:43 <AfterDeath> lol
01:43 <spidey> ??
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
01:43 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
01:44 <Luke-Jr> it's not a blank if he gets op
01:44 <AfterDeath> ooooo
01:44 <AfterDeath> lol
01:44 <Luke-Jr> like in #armagetron-teams IIRC
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot op
01:44 <armabot> AfterDeath: Error: You don't have the #armagetron,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot users
01:44 <Luke-Jr> eh, guess i don't recall correctly =p\
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot list
01:44 <armabot> AfterDeath: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
01:44 <AfterDeath> dang
01:44 <AfterDeath> he has the freaking shebang
01:45 <Luke-Jr> lol
01:45 <Luke-Jr> list aliases ;)
01:45 <AfterDeath> list aliases armabot
01:45 <Luke-Jr> #list alias
01:45 <AfterDeath> list alias armabot
01:45 <Luke-Jr> don't think name can go last
01:45 <AfterDeath> armabot list alias
01:45 <armabot> AfterDeath: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, (1 more message)
01:45 <AfterDeath> armabot more
01:45 <armabot> AfterDeath: roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
01:46 <Luke-Jr> whoisshe ;)
01:46 <Luke-Jr> whoisshe z-man
01:46 <AfterDeath> armabot pushredbutton
01:46 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
01:46 <AfterDeath> LOL
01:46 <Luke-Jr> do whoisshe z-man
01:46 * z-man will be back as z-man-work later.
01:47 <Luke-Jr> I'm hungry
01:47 <Luke-Jr> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `thirdparty/particles/libparticles.a', needed by `armagetronad_main'. Stop.
01:48 <Luke-Jr> wtf? I'm building a server
01:50 <Luke-Jr> anyone here? :/
01:50 <Luke-Jr> z-man: hey, read about Virtuals yet? =p
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02:22 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
02:32 <Luke-Jr> n54: you run a server ever?
02:41 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
02:41 <z-man> I'm on the libparticles.a thing. Looks like Lucifer_arma was a bit careless again :)
02:42 <z-man> The Virtuals sound like the right way to handle player preferences for "default" resources. I haven't though about them in detail yet, I have to admit.
02:42 <Luke-Jr> z-man: yay, how can I configure a fixed 3 player AI team?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> z-man: indeed, I was thinking stuff like default textures, sounds, models, etc and also fonts
02:43 <z-man> A real team that spawns together?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> yes
02:43 <z-man> Sorry, you can't :(
02:43 <Luke-Jr> why?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> the game seems to want to do something similar anyway
02:43 <Luke-Jr> it makes an "AI team" with X players
02:43 <z-man> You can give every team three players with TEAM_MIN_PLAYERS 3
02:44 <z-man> or you can set NUM_AIS to 3 and get the one team with three AIs, but they don't spawn together.
02:45 <z-man> If you want, we can hack in a "spawn AI Team together" switch.
02:47 <Luke-Jr> well, I don't care too much if they spawn together...
02:47 <z-man> But?
02:48 <Luke-Jr> just in game logic I guess is important
02:49 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:50 <z-man> Well, then, NUM_AIS 3 and AUTO_* 0 may be what you want.
02:51 <z-man> Hrmpf, the new particle library produces tons of warnings.
02:52 <Luke-Jr> BTW
02:52 <Luke-Jr> why is it when I do MIN_TEAMS 3 MAX_TEAMS 3
02:52 <Luke-Jr> I get 4 teams always?
02:52 <z-man> A bug? :)
02:52 <Luke-Jr> 3 + AI Team
02:53 <z-man> Perhaps the counter doesn't inlcude the AI Team.
03:18 -!- AfterDeath [n=AfterDea@ppp-70-247-165-123.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["brb!"]
03:37 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
03:37 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: hi - : Race server maps are not found
03:38 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:44 -!- z-man-work [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has joined #armagetron
03:44 -!- z-man [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:47 <joda_bot> z-man-work: can we test floor_blue 0.7 and floor_* 0.5 ? I found it to be quite pleasing ?
03:47 <z-man-work> Sure.
03:49 <joda_bot> on my screen that's still pretty dark, but it really depends on ppl tastes if all devs are fine with that, we might test it on a broader scope
03:50 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: can i assign a team colour for AI team? ;)
03:53 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: Not without hacking the source.
03:53 <Luke-Jr> hrm
03:54 <Luke-Jr> do we have map support to position players within teams yet?
03:56 <z-man-work> No
03:56 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: nope ;)
03:56 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:56 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: philippe is working on this but waiting for me to start with team management redesign to make it all work
03:57 <z-man-work> Haha. My roommate here wanted to check how much memory is used on his system with kinfocenter :)
03:57 <Luke-Jr> ...
03:57 <z-man-work> Checking with top revealed that kinfocenter alone swallowed 100MB of it :)
03:58 <joda_bot> use kinfocenter to check on top :-P
03:59 <z-man-work> :) I think top can do that itself.
04:01 <z-man-work> Hmm, konversation isn't konservative, either.
04:08 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: can I easily determine the AI Team in code?
04:11 <z-man-work> I think eTeam has an IsHuman member function
04:12 <Luke-Jr> can it tell the diff between a member of "AI Team" and an AI on another team?
04:16 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: you should be able to get the "players" team and ask "isHumanAllowed" or something along these alines
04:16 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:17 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: no such func? O.o
04:19 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: wait
04:19 <Luke-Jr> NumHumanPlayers?
04:19 <Luke-Jr> looks like it'd work
04:21 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: no, you're right it's not there ... I bet I implemented it then, before I decided to reapproach this
04:21 <Luke-Jr> Num is
04:22 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: well, except if it's a eTeam with a single ai in it
04:22 <joda_bot> which is not likely but might exist
04:22 <joda_bot> The design lacks a method isAIOnlyTeam
04:23 <joda_bot> The check is implicitly done inside playermayjoin
04:23 <Luke-Jr> BTW, here's a bug to fix: Instant Chat 15 gets a char 255 appended often
04:23 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: true :/
04:29 <Luke-Jr> I don't see anything to prevent a human from joining the AI team ;/
04:32 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
04:33 <Luke-Jr> nope, nothing to prevent it...
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: uh ?
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: A human can't join because playermayjoin rejects him
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: but you can't tell the difference between AITeam and HumanTeam without using something like "instanceof" class
04:35 <joda_bot> can't remember the C++ equivalent of that
04:36 <z-man-work> virtual bool IsHuman() const { return true; }
04:36 <z-man-work> is in eTeam
04:36 <Luke-Jr> eTeam has a IsHuman method, but it's const true
04:36 <z-man-work> It's virtual :)
04:37 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: playermayjoin won't reject him...
04:37 <z-man-work> and overridden in gAITeam.
04:37 <Luke-Jr> oh!
04:37 <Luke-Jr> didn't know there WAS a gAITeam =p
04:39 <z-man-work> It also overrides PlayerMayJoin, kicking out humans.
04:39 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: thanks ;)
04:39 <z-man-work> np
04:39 * z-man-work is really away, working
04:40 <Luke-Jr> aww
05:16 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
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08:17 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: can you try connecting again now? I think I fixed it, but can't test
08:19 <wrtlprnft> z-man's server forum is still called "The CVS Test Servers" ;)
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that java tron bot on the page z-man linked to is constantly beating me :(
08:31 <wrtlprnft> but it's mostly because of the weird controls
08:48 * Lucifer_arma wonders if armabot delivers messages on actions
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> ...
08:52 <n54> afaik it doesn't
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> Here's some more examples of double-binding: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
08:56 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
08:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax, and phil.
08:58 <z-man> armabot does not seem to be too eager to pass along the notes.
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> ? there just aren't many....
08:58 <n54> perhaps people haven't reidentified since last it got restarted
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> madmax and phil aren't going to be identified because those strings dont' match actual names that come here
08:59 <z-man> And Luke-Jr?
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know. :) I always worry that his name will be subtly different if I leave a message for him, heh.
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> #message z-man this is a test
09:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
09:00 <z-man> test
09:00 <z-man> got it
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> did you get it?
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> really not more I can do, guru3 and Luke-Jr get a fair amount of traffic on their own anyway :)
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> do we have a file right now that contains physical constants? If not, I was wanting to make one to hold things like gravitational constant... (configurable :) )
09:14 <z-man> Why should physical constants be different from other parameters?
09:15 <z-man> (ah, you're talking source file. No, we don't have that yet. I think we should have. It'd be fun to mess with the speed of light :) )
09:17 <Lucifer_arma> :) I was thinking it'd be neat to have a server with moon gravity
09:17 <Lucifer_arma> got an svn commandline handy that checks out the branch?
09:18 * Lucifer_arma needs a newer version of qemu apparently to test t2 images under Kubuntu
09:20 <n54> #g 5000 eur to nok
09:20 <armabot> n54: 5,000 Euros = 39,123.0679 Norwegian kroner
09:21 <z-man> svn co svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8
09:21 <z-man> minus one "svn co"
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> thanks
09:22 <z-man> VisualC fails to include eChannel.h from eSoundMixer.h in the trunk
09:22 * Lucifer_arma wanted to see if his memory was real
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> eChannel.h is in a subdirectory now that has to be added to the search path
09:22 <z-man> Ah, forgot that.
09:24 <z-man> Amazingly little errors in VisualC this time.
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> wow. Did you try adding the particle system?
09:24 * Lucifer_arma wants to know if the particle system api has as many compiler warnings in VisualC as it does in gcc
09:24 <z-man> Not yet.
09:25 * Lucifer_arma has to leave for class pretty soon
09:25 <z-man> I won't get there today, probably.
09:25 * Lucifer_arma was right, max speed is a static variable
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> is exit_game_grid called every time a player leaves a grid, be it local or network game?
09:27 * Lucifer_arma has a vague memory of not finding a single function that's called every time a player enters a grid
09:28 <z-man> I actually don't know.
09:28 <z-man> It may be called every round.
09:29 <z-man> No, that's it. VisualC 6 doesn't support any of the cool stuff wrtl is using in the cockpit.
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh
09:29 <z-man> Code::blocks is working fine, so I don't mind.
09:29 <z-man> I'll see how VisualC 8 does.
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> good excuse to blow off VisualC support once and for all? ;)
09:30 <z-man> Yes, for the Trunk.
09:30 <z-man> I mean, we can't expect the situation to get better
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> and we're still supported in windows, so it's not like we have to fix it
09:30 <z-man> wrtl, philippe and me all like template stuff, and VisualC 6 is known to suck at that. And we all use Unix.
09:31 <z-man> Right.
09:31 <z-man> I'm pretty sure VisualC8 can be convinced to work.
09:31 * Lucifer_arma expects to develop a liking for templates sooner or later, just hasn't yet
09:33 <Lucifer_arma> I put the init for max_player_speed in init_game_grid, hopefully that's enough, it looks to get called every round
09:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, still needs to be somewhere else, I suspect, now that I think about it. That's not caleld when you join a game, is it?
09:36 <z-man> I honestly don't know.
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> I dropped it in a few other places. Sanity checking right now.
09:38 <z-man> Only 14 errors left in VisualC6, hooray!
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I say it's fixed. The widget still shows the last player's name and speed during the countdown, but when the round starts it resets
09:39 <z-man> cool
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> I could be wrong, though. committing
09:39 <z-man> that's enough.
09:41 <Lucifer_arma> now, one more cigarette and I'm off to school, later :)
09:41 * Lucifer_arma is away: school
09:43 <z-man> have fun learning
09:44 <Lucifer_arma> :)
10:35 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
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11:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
11:10 <wrtlprnft> #later tell wrtl test
11:10 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:10 <wrtlprnft> asdf
11:10 <wrtlprnft> i thought you could just use incomplete names...
11:11 <wrtlprnft> #help later tell
11:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
11:11 <wrtlprnft> ah
11:11 <wrtlprnft> #later tell wrtl* test
11:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:11 <wrtlprnft> asdf
11:11 <wrtlprnft> there it goes :)
11:11 -!- You're now known as wrtl
11:11 <wrtl> asdf
11:11 -!- You're now known as madmax
11:11 <madmax> asdf
11:12 <madmax> philis in use :(
11:12 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
11:13 <wrtlprnft> #later tell madmax* Sent 2 days, 15 hours, and 43 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> uh, currently there's no match planned, but I'd like us to play them...
11:13 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:14 <wrtlprnft> #later tell phil* [notes phil]
11:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:15 <wrtlprnft> notes phil*
11:15 <wrtlprnft> #notes phil*
11:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent just now: <wrtlprnft> Sent 2 days, 15 hours, and 41 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> uh, the fact that you can't put std::auto_ptrs into containers is exactly why i made tAutoDeque ;)
11:15 <wrtlprnft> #notes
11:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, phil, and phil*.
11:16 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma you can delete the note for phil (without the *)
11:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:17 <n54> cool :) btw just change you name to delete the ones you don't want
11:17 <n54> or actually... that might delete all four :S
11:18 <wrtlprnft> no, i can't change my nick to phil
11:19 <wrtlprnft> it's already in use
11:19 <n54> ah ok
11:23 <joda_bo1> Lucifer_arma: You prefer konqueror as browser right ?
11:23 <wrtlprnft> I think he's using FF and tried konqeror for a while
11:26 <joda_bo1> heh
11:26 <joda_bo1> just finished reading up
11:26 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: do you mind to check www.mozilla.org/firefox with opera and any other graphical browser (except ie, and firefox) ?
11:27 <joda_bo1> Because I want to know if they show the green download bubble
11:27 <wrtlprnft> checking in opera...
11:27 <n54> I can check in konqueror and seamonkey later on (not right now - wait ten minutes or so)
11:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, ther is a green bubble
11:28 <wrtlprnft> Download Firefox
11:28 <wrtlprnft> 1.5.0.3 for Windows, English (4.9MB)
11:28 <joda_bo1> and it's closed ?
11:28 <joda_bo1> smart as hack
11:28 <wrtlprnft> closed?
11:28 <joda_bo1> wait
11:28 <wrtlprnft> it looks fine
11:28 <joda_bo1> http://www.mozilla.com/images/template/download-firefox.png
11:29 <joda_bo1> This is the image of the background
11:29 <joda_bo1> They probably hacked the order of the png rows
11:29 <joda_bo1> and each browser displays the broken image in the same way
11:29 <wrtlprnft> i think they just overlapped the image
11:29 <joda_bo1> by putting the last few line at the end of the "mini-page" created by a div
11:30 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: I can see no hints for that in the css, but if you find out where, I'm really happy ;)
11:30 <wrtlprnft> I think it's just the same iomage twice
11:30 <wrtlprnft> so one is a background image, aligned to the top, hiding the bottom
11:30 <wrtlprnft> and one is over it, aligned to the bottom
11:31 <wrtlprnft> so the top part is invisible
11:31 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: are u sure of that ?
11:31 <joda_bo1> http://joda.homeip.net:600/download/armagetron/
11:31 <wrtlprnft> I've read tutorials on it
11:31 <joda_bo1> This is my experiment so far, but it's broken by just resaving the image
11:31 <wrtlprnft> can't connect to that from here
11:31 <wrtlprnft> only ports 80 and 433
11:32 <wrtlprnft> *443
11:32 <joda_bo1> wait ;)
11:33 <wrtlprnft> #main-feature a.download-firefox {
11:33 <wrtlprnft> background: url("/images/template/download-firefox.png") 0 100% no-repeat;
11:33 <wrtlprnft> }
11:33 <wrtlprnft> #main-feature a.download-firefox {
11:33 <wrtlprnft> background: url("/images/template/download-firefox.png") 0 100% no-repeat;
11:33 <wrtlprnft> }
11:33 <joda_bo1> AFAIK it's just the moveover
11:33 <joda_bo1> mouseover
11:33 <wrtlprnft> so, the first one is aligned at the top
11:34 <joda_bo1> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:34 <wrtlprnft> and the span within that is aligned at the bottom
11:34 <wrtlprnft> sec, I'll show you
11:35 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: Then a change in the image would not matter
11:35 <joda_bo1> but it does
11:35 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: also a single layer has only one background ?
11:36 <wrtlprnft> it's two layers
11:36 <wrtlprnft> give me a sec
11:37 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: it's not using two layers AFAIK
11:37 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:37 <wrtlprnft> it is
11:38 <n54> joda_bo1: want me to check in seamonkey (windows) and konqueror and/or firfox (linux) ?
11:38 <joda_bo1> n54: go ahead, I checked IE and firefox
11:38 <n54> ok
11:38 <joda_bo1> (windows)
11:38 <joda_bo1> What seamonkey anyway ?
11:38 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as jod1
11:38 -!- jod1 is now known as joda_bot
11:39 <joda_bot> hm, I only got the message "your nick start with a j ..." once I was named joda_bot is that correct ?
11:40 <n54> http://www.mozilla.org/firefox looked completely the same in both to me, what am I looking for?
11:40 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:40 <n54> seamonkey is the continuation of the mozilla suite
11:40 <joda_bot> See the "download" buttons on my server
11:40 <n54> ok
11:41 <joda_bot> AFAIK they use a fine tuned PNG image hack, but I might be seeing things .. if wrtl is right ;)
11:42 <n54> uh that looks weird on both
11:42 * n54 scrolls up
11:44 <joda_bot> n54: well it's not supposed to but it does
11:45 <n54> have you looked at the source for the firefox site and compared?
11:45 <joda_bot> n54: I can do better ... wait
11:45 <n54> oh script I see
11:45 <joda_bot> ah right, that might be my mistake wait
11:46 <n54> since they use javascript you might need to do the same
11:48 <n54> or perhaps it's a lot more simpler than that, you just want a mouseover don't you?
11:54 <joda_bot> aw, wrtlprnft is right ;)
11:54 <joda_bot> I messed it up
11:54 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:54 <joda_bot> works now
11:55 <n54> #message wrtlpr* yes it does and yours start with wrtlpr ;)
11:55 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
11:57 <joda_bot> #message wrtl* works and you're right ... it's a double background thing
11:57 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
11:59 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/fftest.htm
11:59 <wrtlprnft> that's what i came up with
11:59 <wrtlprnft> notice the hover effect ;)
11:59 <wrtlprnft> all one image
12:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
12:01 <n54> ah but yours don't affect the text color wrtlprnft, minor detail perhaps
12:01 <joda_bot> see my old link after you pointed it out, I was able to fix it ;)
12:01 <wrtlprnft> yeah
12:02 <n54> looks good now but what about fixing the grey one?
12:02 <wrtlprnft> i would have been faster, but on this windows machine i only have a sucky ssh connection home
12:02 <wrtlprnft> grey one?
12:02 <joda_bot> huh ? http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
12:02 <n54> on joda's page
12:02 <joda_bot> They all should be fixed, refresh
12:02 <spidey> lol,i think someone's inlove with z-man
12:03 <n54> *refreshes again* ok now
12:03 <n54> on both browsers (seamonkey -win & ff -linux)
12:04 <wrtlprnft> but I'd alter the box a bit
12:04 <wrtlprnft> make ita different color or something
12:04 <wrtlprnft> there's too many pages that look exactly like copies of mozilla.org
12:04 <n54> :)
12:05 <n54> make it a bubble instead, too much squarish stuff on the net :)
12:05 <joda_bot> ;)
12:06 * wrtlprnft doesn't like rounded edges all that much
12:06 <wrtlprnft> basically a waste of space
12:07 <wrtlprnft> my race server works now i guess?
12:07 <wrtlprnft> there's people online
12:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: well it has the advantage of ppl recognizing it easier
12:09 <wrtlprnft> g2g
12:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: not sure I really have to change that but I want a red colored one for aa beta
12:10 <n54> cya wrtlprnft
12:12 <spidey> who's qwerty?
12:13 <n54> a keyboard layout ;P
12:14 <spidey> ?
12:16 <n54> qwerty is the name of a keyboard layout... the most common one in fact *bets spidey has qwerty*
12:25 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:30 <joda_bot> qwerttz
12:30 <joda_bot> heh, notice the doulbe t ;)
12:31 <spidey> is there a tron playing called qwerty?
12:31 <joda_bot> I guess I can remember someone using that name yes
12:31 <joda_bot> but can't recall any details
12:31 <spidey> does he help z-man admin the cvs server?
12:32 <n54> don't know but I would be doubtful
12:34 <n54> probably just another **** namecalling :)
12:34 <z-man> I don't know anyone named qwerty
12:34 <n54> namedropping I mean
12:34 <spidey> didn't think so
12:34 <spidey> lol
12:42 <n54> #message Luci* came across the classic briefly mentioned the other week and so in case you don't have it here it is: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/
12:42 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
12:55 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft I can't delete individual messages, or rather, I won't because they're kind of a pain to find.
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft I'd rather see the plugin let me do it from right here :)
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
13:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> ? no note waiting for me? *confused*
13:04 <n54> guess you got Luci* :)
13:08 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: can you test floor_blue 0.7 floor_* 0.5 ?
13:08 <joda_bot> I want to know if it's ok for you, because this extremly dark floor kind of disappears ;) ... so far I was ok with this floor
13:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:19 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:21 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: heh, you know python way better than me. I don't even know where to put the h, as in phyton :P
13:21 <wrtl_web_broken> anyways, I'll try renaming myself to phil once in a while, I'm sure it will work one day
13:30 <joda_bot> wrtl_web_broken: what for ?
13:30 <joda_bot> #notes
13:30 <armabot> joda_bot: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
13:30 <joda_bot> ah I see ;)
13:44 -!- [Jonne] [n=chatzill@248.24-201-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #armagetron
13:47 -!- [Jonne] [n=chatzill@248.24-201-80.adsl.skynet.be] has left #armagetron []
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I didn't get any messages, the only reason I knew wrtlprnft tried to leave a message for me was because it was still in my backlog when I got home
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> my previous disconnection was a 2 year old that likes to push the button on the front of my laptop that disables the wifi card, and I was at school when it happened
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> so it was still there for me to see even if I was disconnected
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer_arma this is a test
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
13:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
14:09 <n54> ah ok - heh I kind of think that's a very cool 2 year old ^^ anyway it wasn't all that important: (19:44:20) n54: #message Luci* came across the classic briefly mentioned the other week and so in case you don't have it here it is: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/
14:17 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["cya, or actually i never saw you"]
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> thanks, bookmarked
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> I've read it before, obviously, but I'm happy to have a link for it. :)
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> and he is a very cool 2 year old :)
14:36 <n54> np I bookmarked it myself as I think I must have forgotten the last time I saw it
14:36 <n54> :)
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> he's going to be 3 in August. And he's started the, uh, diarrhea of the mouth that accompanies being 3 already
14:37 <n54> talking?
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> he's learning at least 1 new word a day, even though he can only squeeze out 1 syllable for each word
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, talking
14:37 <n54> cool
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> he already understands plenty, understanding != talking, but he's about half a year or so ahead of the game
14:38 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> Hi there, Vanhomosexuals
14:38 <n54> ok (I don't have much knowledge about kids & development rates etc.)
14:39 * Lucifer_arma actually thought the Vangayes joke was funny
14:39 <Vanhayes> creative luci
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> ah. About 3-3.5 kids do most of their learning to talk and will pick up at the peak up to 60 new words a day that they can say
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> after that they'll be sorta anchored in whatever language they learned, but before that they can learn any language. So now's your chance to teach him norwegian!
14:40 <n54> lol no
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> but they go literally from 2 words to fair fluency in only 6 months
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> after that, they have figured out the motor skills for talking and pick up new words pretty much as soon as they understand them, but the pace drops off
14:42 <n54> ok
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> I think that's probably mostly because after you have a good kernel of the language, learning new words isn't terribly necessary, so the next big development in language is attached to reading
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> the alphabet and some reading is taught here in kindergarten at 5. At 6, they're expected to read at 60 words per minute when they finish first grade.
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> My daughter is reading at 125 words per minute. Give her a bit more and she'll be able to read faster than I can type! :)
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> Most kids are 7 when they finish first grade, but 6 when they start.
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> no idea how that compares to the same school level anywhere else, sorry.
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter just finished first grade :)
14:45 <n54> it changed about 18 years ago here iirc, they now start at 6
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> kindergarten is considered optional here, but most kids go to it anyway
14:45 * n54 can't remember if his half-brother started at 6 or 7
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> kindergarten is primarily state-sponsored daycare, heh. but they teach a lot of useful stuff and give you a chance to establish study habits, I suppose.
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> or vice versa, they give you a chance to establish schooling habits that don't include studying
14:47 * Lucifer_arma isn't terribly impressed with his calc 2 class so far.
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> within 5 minutes of the class ending, 1 person asked me to photocopy parts of my book and I heard another person asking someone else the same thing
14:47 <n54> I'm all for it as long as it works (and afaik the us system at that level is better than over here)
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> talked to my teacher and he had someone ask him in the same time period himself
14:47 <n54> here we've got people moaning about letting "children be children" as if they wont be anyway
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> the us system is really really good, imo, until about the 6th grade. It drops off after that and winds up really bad for high school
14:48 <n54> then picks up again at university level imo
14:48 <n54> what was that about your book? *didn't get it*
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> I dont' have any idea how it compares at that level.
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> textbook for calc 2, one of the kids in my class wanted to photocopy all of the early chapters
14:49 <n54> depends a lot from uni to uni of course but in general I'd say it's better than norway at least
14:49 <n54> they don't have it themselves?
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> I told him he could photocopy what he needed for the homework assigned so he could wait to buy his own book if he needed to
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, here's why I was surprised. Ok, to get into calc 2, you need a C or better in calc 1, right?
14:50 <n54> ok
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> the textbook for calc 1 is the same as for calc 2, you only cover half the book.
14:50 <n54> heh
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> So if he's in calc 2, where's his textbook from calc 1?
14:50 <n54> I might be a slacker but at least I get the books... ^^
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it's too old, they did switch editions a couple of semesters ago
14:50 <n54> perhaps
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> and he said he had an older edition. Personally, in his situation I'd try to dicker with the teacher and use the older book.
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> but, heh, I know this teacher, this is the 3rd course I'm taking from him. And I'm not shy with teachers anyway.
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I was surprised to see that much "don't have the book yet" going on for a class you had to have the book just to satisfy the prerequisite
14:52 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:52 <n54> just don't annoy them and it's all ok ^^ I hated two kinds: 1. the ones who would never speak up/participate 2. the ones who treated you as a dog or something, oh wait make it three: 3. the two loonies too lol
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> of course, there's another version of the book that includes all the material studied in calc 3. Turns out it's about a $30 savings if you buy that book and you intend to go that far in calculus (I have to go to calc 4, so I'll still need another calc textbook eventually)
14:52 <n54> yup I can see that
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I don't mind the ones that don't speak up/participate, until they start whining about not getting it
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> there's a girl in my calc 2 class who obviously took the teacher's *other* calc 1 class last semester that's really annoying.
14:54 <n54> ah I think I know the type, I usually escaped those
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> She's the kind of student I try really hard not to be. The teacher asks a question and she answers it immediately, usually jumping ahead a little bit of the questions he's obviously about to ask.
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> we're in the calc 1 review period right now, starting new material tomorrow. So naturally she's spouting off nearly every time he opens his mouth.
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> I find that annoying because there are other kids in the class who a) have a longer interval since they took calc 1 or b) took it from a different teacher
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> and really need this review, but she's basically throwing it away for them.
14:55 <n54> if I had a student like that I would actually take them aside and tell them in private to let others get a chance - with a positive spin
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, he's getting visibly annoyed by it (to me, at least, after 2 classes i think I can read him pretty well). He's either expecting her to have trouble and naturally quiet down later,
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> or he's going to talk to her. No need for me to worry about it too much, it's only the second day of classes.
14:56 <n54> it's only been a day or two right? teachers are patient :)
14:56 <n54> ah yeah
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> still, calc 2 is a prerequisite for almost anything worthwhile ;) , and it weeds out a lot of students, so I'm probably going to encounter her again
14:58 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice to put a cork in it now so I don't have to deal with it later...
14:58 <n54> lol, nah just ignore it for now - not worth spending energy on so soon
14:58 <n54> it won't last long
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> well, if the teacher doesn't talk to her, or she doesn't slow down with the new material, I might have to do something so I can learn the stuff. :) But yeah, blow it off for now is the best policy
14:59 <n54> she's just carried away, don't be too harsh
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'll know sometime next week if I should care terribly
15:00 <n54> yup and then first try mentioning it to the teacher because a small nudge might be all it takes
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, the teacher finally expressed confidence that he'll be seeing me in calc 4. :) For the first time, he was a little worried during calc 1, but now that I've made it into calc 2, he's confident.
15:00 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> That's worth something, eh? ;)
15:00 <n54> yup :)
15:01 * Lucifer_arma considers it a great stroke of luck that this particular teacher who teaches so much of the calculus at this school happened to be teaching trig two semesters ago
15:01 <n54> how so?
15:01 <Lucifer_arma> he doesn't normally teach it because it's only a 3 hour course and he gets paid based on how many credit hours he teaches
15:01 <Lucifer_arma> he's also the calc 4 teacher. The one and only. They have at least one other who's got credentials, but this guy teaches it.
15:01 <n54> but why is it good for you?
15:02 <n54> you had him two years ago in trig?
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> well, first because he's a cool guy that doesn't sweat prerequisites terribly. I skipped precalculus to take calc 1 with him.
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> 2 semesters ago, almost a year ago
15:02 <n54> oh ok
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> second because he's a good teacher, and breaking in a new teacher is really a pain. There are probably more bad math teachers than good,
15:03 <n54> sorry makes perfect sense, I'm just very slow these days (lots of stuff happening)
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> even though most are adequate.
15:03 <n54> I've had great luck with math teachers myself so I can't say
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> so it looks like I'll be able to finish up the calc sequence with him. He usually teaches calc 3, and I'll have that in the fall.
15:04 <n54> ok :)
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have to say I've had great luck with math teachers too. :)
15:04 * n54 is still abysmal at it to no fault of theirs
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> also, I won't say he's more lenient with me, not to a point of endangering my learning environment, but having a good relationship with your teacher can have a positive influence on your grade
15:05 * Lucifer_arma reminds n54 that he still doesn't believe he got an A in calc 1
15:05 <n54> it's on paper right?
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> it's on paper, it's official and all that.
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> my transcript still reads like a babbling baby "aaaaaaaa"
15:05 <n54> it was like one point differnce or something, I would have done the same
15:06 <Lucifer_arma> I like to think that if you were my math teacher, I'd have a good relationship with my math teacher. :)
15:06 <n54> teachers look for reasons to grade pupils well, it's natural and perfectly ok as long as it isn't overused
15:07 <n54> lol I'd suck as a math teacher ^^
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> but I guarantee he wouldn't have done the same for the kid the only showed up one day a week, or whatever, even if he earned the same numbers I did
15:07 <n54> but it is one reason why third-party testing can be a good idea
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> I disagree. I'm very much opposed to removing the human element from grading
15:08 <n54> yup, but it's not about the not-showing-up it's about a lack of "non-empirical" data on what that kid actually understands
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> you can have a bad semester of testing but still learn the material to a certain level, and I'd prefer to know my teacher is going to grade me on that.
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, and that's where the relationship kicks in.
15:08 <n54> "can be" not "always is" :)
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, and that's where the relationship kicks in. :)
15:08 * Lucifer_arma tries to have good relationships with teachers.
15:09 <wrtlprnft> #notes
15:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
15:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:09 * Lucifer_arma tries to have good relationships with people in general, but considers teachers a high priority relationship when in school.
15:09 <n54> just don't cross into sucking up (not that I think you'll do) because that's really... uncomfortable?
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I'm a born heckler, I just don't see myself kissing ass.
15:10 <n54> ok heckling is not so good either ;P
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, this math teacher seems to be immune to ass-kissing, which I consider to be a positive trait in anybody
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, I try to keep my heckling under control. :) I am there to learn something, after all.
15:11 <n54> most people hate being "ass-kissed" (yuck) at least all teachers I've worked with (and I) were like that
15:11 <n54> it really is uncomfortable and often it's most convenient to completely ignore it
15:11 <n54> hehe ok :)
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't yet seen any teacher in this school that was susceptible to it.
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> I won't say they're not there, but I have't see it. My experience with the teachers here has so far been very good. Only one teacher I thought was bad,
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> but tht remains to be seen when I retake that class in the fall.
15:12 <n54> it's simple really, it feels like an attack on your profession/character, might sound strange but it really does
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> but all the rest have not just been good, they've been overwhelmingly good.
15:12 <n54> that's good :)
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> well it is, it's bribing only without money. It's bribing in a much sicker, more demented way. "I'll make you not feel like a turd"
15:13 <n54> yup
15:13 <n54> meh now you've got me thinking of past pupils :S
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> I tend to think that being a professional teacher is incompatible with low self-esteem, but I guess that depends on your definition of "professional"
15:14 <n54> not so sure about that one, depends on what measure you use for self-esteem too
15:15 <n54> but not _as_ a teacher of course, that just wont do
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> that's true. A teacher needs at least enough self-confidence to do the public speaking, and to be confident that they know what they're talking about
15:15 <n54> yup
15:15 <n54> and they better not be perfectionists... that got me
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> I'll take a perfectionist, provided they teach enough so that a reasonably talented person can achieve it
15:16 <n54> or at least not impatient perfectionists (towards oneself that is) ^^
15:16 * Lucifer_arma has had several of his teachers tell him to relax, his work was good enough, heh
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> what I can't stand is the perfectionist that expects you to read his mind to figure out what he really wants from you
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> (my chemistry teacher)
15:17 <n54> I worked way too much when I was a teacher, did too much at once, then again I've sort of learned from it
15:17 <n54> gah that sounds impossible
15:18 <n54> or just plain awful (the chem teacher)
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> in 2 weeks, 3 max, there's probably going to be 10 or less people in my calc class, I think.
15:18 <n54> might go even quicker
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> I think he was awful, but like I say, we won't know for sure if it was the teacher or the student until I retake the class
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> and taking it a third time is not an option, they charge triple, and it would stall me, so I'll have to take whatever passing grade I can get
15:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's around 30 in my calc class right now
15:19 <n54> yikes
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> I think they're trying to put the smackdown on kids that keep enrolling as an excuse to mooch off their parents, or becuase their parents will throw them out if they quit school,
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> but will keep throwing good money after bad hoping the kid will actually go to class
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> and the way to get parents' attention seems to be by hitting their wallet
15:20 <n54> ok
15:21 <n54> no way of switching to get another teacher?
15:21 <n54> I mean teachers aren't neccessarily good people, some are just assholes who don't care at all
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> not after the class gets under way. You have 3 days, I think, to make a switch, which often isn't enough time to figure out if the teacher's good
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> well I haven't been idle, since dropping the chem class I've been feeling out the other chem teachers, and I think I'll be fine.
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's a semester and a half's time so far, and the rest of summer to go before I have to move on it.
15:22 <n54> I'd think about perhaps trying to make a switch if you're already dubious about him, see if you can find/hear what other students experiences are
15:22 <n54> ah ok
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the chem thing happened last fall
15:23 <n54> and sometimes it's simply pure chemistry ^^
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> it could be the student who's at fault here. :)
15:24 <n54> always possible :)
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> but the other kids I talked to were complaining about how anal their teachers were, and I've got to say at least they had clear standards on what they were expected to do
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> my chem teacher was evasive whenever you tried to pin him down, otherwise he'd say "just do what I do and you won't make any mistakes". Oh yeah? what the fuck am I supposed to do if what you do doesn't work?
15:25 <n54> well anal can be good (talk about inviting flames - yikes lol), depends on what they actually mean...
15:25 <n54> yeah exactly
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, I like this math teacher in part because he's anal about a few things and he really challenges me. So I think I'm learning the material better than I would from a different teacher.
15:26 <n54> structure and disciplin can be good things, as lontg as one pays attention
15:26 <n54> yup
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. the other end that I've always considered important is knowing when discipline is needed and when it's not. He doesn't impose any particular method of organizing work,
15:27 <n54> yup
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> but if what you do is too disorganized to read or keeps giving you the wrong answer, he'll say something.
15:28 <n54> teaching is probably just two things really; 1. knowledge 2. manipulation to imbed knowledge
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, you like Socrates :)
15:28 * Lucifer_arma never was much a fan of Plato
15:28 <n54> 2 is usually referred to as pedagogics ^^
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh. :)
15:28 <n54> I prefer Sokrates over Plato yes, but...
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> my teacher uses the socratic method, or at least what I understand of it.
15:29 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's likely Socrates was Plato's fictional character
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> not known, just likely.
15:29 <n54> some are excellent at it
15:29 <n54> ahh as a former philosophy student I have to disagree about Sokrates being PLato's fiction :)
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'll bet he asks 9 times as many questions as he gives facts, and it seems to be working well
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> well, disagree all you want, I don't care either way. :) As a fictional character or as a real man, he still deserves a punch in the nose.
15:30 <n54> heh why+
15:30 <n54> remember that they were all loonies anyway ^^
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. mostly because he assumed too much, imo. He took things like honor and dignity as postulates without considering the meaning of the things
15:31 <n54> interesting loonies of course but still :)
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> and then proceeded to argue using very underhanded tactics that only served to discredit his opponent but not actually convey any useful thought
15:31 <n54> they /everyone) all do that
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> I can't see having a serious discussion about anything that depends on honor and dignity without first determining what those things are
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> build from basic principles. I suppose he thought he was doing that, so it's likely just a difference in point of view.
15:32 <n54> I can't remember what the word is in english - the opposite of vice
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> but if he was real, he hurt a few people on the way. I don't know that he deserved his death, but he should've been nicer.
15:33 <n54> (and now I can't remember it in norwegian either gah)
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> virtue
15:33 <n54> yeah
15:33 <n54> that was the word :)
15:34 <n54> the concepts and properties of virtue was of course a source for debate
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> I'd equate Socrates to Joe McCarthy, actually. It's probably not the best comparison that could be made, but the two are very similar, imo.
15:34 <n54> there is quite a lot of material on it
15:34 <n54> I strongly disagree
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> yes there is. At least Aristotle tried to work that out. :)
15:34 <n54> McCarthy was a fraud
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> the differences of importance between Socrates and McCarthy have to do with true belief, Socrates had it and Mccarthy didn't
15:35 <n54> that's pretty important in my book
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> so you can't really say they believed different things, switch it around and McCarthy would've advocated Socrates's cause
15:35 <n54> and I also have a sneaking suspicion you might be mixing socrates in with the stoics
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> McCarthy also gained power through the political system. iirc, Socrates didn't.
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> I might be. I did read a lot of Plato, though.
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> and very little else. I read Zen and the Art of motorcycle maintenance as my intro to philosophy :)
15:36 <n54> and anyway both of them (socrates and plato) can be read differently - some read plato as a proto-fascist
15:36 <n54> (I don't)
15:37 <n54> hehe ok I hate that book :)
15:37 <n54> *refuses to read it* :)
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that I fundamentally disagree with the guys. The problem I have with the writing is that it builds on complex principles taken for granted.
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> Without a strong foundation, or at least an understanding of what their foundation was, I have a hard time figuring out my own position relative to theirs
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> And I didn't read any Plato that didn't include Socrates, so I don't really know if he got much different
15:38 <n54> ah well 1. not that granted really 2. the culture of ancient greece plays a big role, some of this stuff was different and more... familiar
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is a definite factor that I'm not in the culture of ancient greece, nor do I know much about it.
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> so why do you hate Zen and the (rest)?
15:40 <n54> translation and incompleteness plays roles as well of course
15:41 <n54> just because it makes me think of people who... hmm... doesn't want to take zen seriously? it's judgemental, harsh, and of course often wrong - but I do agree with the idea behind the book, somewhat, somehow
15:41 <n54> but I must check on the dinner brb
15:42 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
15:47 <n54> back until the noodles boil over ^^
15:47 <n54> anyway it's probably better put as me getting somewhat anti-new age, and possibly quite unfair
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't find the book new-age, or at least what I consider new-age (occult, astrology, etc).
15:49 * n54 likes zen quite a lot and bushido code is interesting too
15:49 <n54> yeah it's probably just me associating the book to strongly with people I've met
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> and he was pretty harsh about stuff, but I didn't see any reason for him to be nice either
15:50 <n54> too*
15:50 <n54> the author?
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> granted, I don't have any experience of my own to support his, but neither do I have any to contradict his
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
15:50 <n54> ok
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> seemed to me that most of the book centered on his belief in the use of rhetoric to achieve understanding and his anger and frustration that the philosophical community at large relegates rhetoric to some corner
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> where it's never taken out, and dialectic is used primarily
15:51 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> and I found his criticisms of the dialectic, as based on Socrates's dialogs, to be completely fitting
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> that's the part about tactics vs truth. The "truth" found through dialectic seems to have more to do with good arguing tactics than actual real truth
15:53 <n54> well it's not much news really
15:53 <n54> rhetoric has it's bad sides too
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> now that I'm quite a few years from when I read it, I'm having a hard time understanding his Quality philosophy, or at least the relationship of the philosophy itself to the word quality
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> rhetoric does have its bad sides, but it seems like the best way to construct a complete thought and present it completely
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> dialog follows from there
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> the two should work hand in hand, imo
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's your basic write/discuss/revise loop
15:54 <n54> actually if you want to know what's used for such tasks in the real world today you always end up with language logics, that stuff probably isn't known to many
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's where "If you believe one thing, you should also admit to the opposite of that thing existing"?
15:55 <n54> oops brb
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> because in language the two things are opposites, even though in reality there's no relation?
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> bring me some noodles when you get back, I'm hungry
16:03 <n54> hehe *serves chop suey with bacon cubes, striped (?) yellow, red & green peppers, cubed cucumber and noodles* ^^ (haven't thrown in cucumber before, not sure I gave the vegies enough frying time this time around)
16:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:04 <n54> what's funny is the guys at 7-11 thinks I'm living off soda and such* :)
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> "branching from the trunk (gas) to the stabilizer (liquid) would be "condensating". Branching from the stabilizer to a relase branch (solid) would be "freezing". Branching a release branch directly from the trunk (gas to solid), should it ever be done, would be "sublimizing". Starting an experimental branch (gas to plasma) would be "ionizing". Finally merging an experimental branch to the trunk would be "recombining". " -- z-man
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> :)
--- Log opened Wed May 31 16:11:06 2006
16:11 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:11 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
16:11 <n54> and it's always better to be wrong with an expert than a fool ^^
16:11 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> <--- fool
16:11 <n54> oooh it's both ways
16:11 <n54> nah
16:11 <n54> at least not more than the rest of us ^^
16:12 * n54 loves the "concept" of vacuum ablation, I mean the tought itself is cool (and of course a practical pain in the neck I suppose)
16:12 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:13 <nemostultae> hmm, this is strange. My FPS is better when I use the Bitstream font.
16:13 <n54> the new one? or compared to other new ones? & hi :)
16:13 <wrtlprnft> better than what?
16:14 <wrtlprnft> the old system or our Armagetron.ttf?
16:14 <nemostultae> compared to Armagetronad.ttf
16:14 <wrtlprnft> hmm
16:14 <wrtlprnft> the code is doing about the same thing
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> derivative of tan is sec^2, right?
16:14 <n54> you got me Luci ^^
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> maybe his bitstream font is simpler somehow, so it's not working freetype so much
16:14 <wrtlprnft> it is still doing all that complex stuff with the fixedwidth
16:14 <wrtlprnft> font
16:15 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives
16:15 <wrtlprnft> yes, you're right
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> yay, I'm right :)
16:15 * Lucifer_arma didn't memorize them in calc 1 like he ws supposed to.
16:17 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know other graphical svn clients than kdesvn and esvn?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> more like cervisia
16:17 <wrtlprnft> no IDEs and stuff
16:18 <wrtlprnft> kdesvn looked promising first, but it lacks some of cervisia's features i used all the time :(
16:18 <wrtlprnft> and esvn is kinda weird in useage
16:18 <Lucifer_arma> does konqueror have an svn plugin?
16:18 <wrtlprnft> that's ksvn, yes
16:18 <wrtlprnft> but I don't want a konqueror plugin that much, too much overhead for me
16:19 <wrtlprnft> and there's no ebuild for it
16:22 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-050-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> haha, I just realized I use the product rule in place of the quotient rule nearly every time
16:23 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he still gets the right answer when he does that
16:25 <n54> looking at the formulas I would be a bit surprised if you did :)
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, when you simplify I imagine you'll come up with statements that are equal
16:28 <n54> hmm + becomes - not sure how that would happen
16:28 <wrtlprnft> http://u1.flurl.com/1148926506/2006/May/29/FLURL-dot-com-142986-billard.wmv
16:28 <n54> perhaps the !=0 thing
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> one of these days I'll try to piece it together and find out for sure
16:38 <n54> they should be connected in some way of course but since wikipedia doesn't dvelve into that...
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure they're the same, just that some situations are easier to work with one rule and same for the other
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> at least, I haven't lost any points for that yet :)
16:42 <n54> :)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> y = ln( x^2 e^x )
16:43 <n54> heh that chop suey sauce makes everything taste superb, going to try only vegetables and noodles with it next time :D
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, looks like a chain rule and a product rule
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> (except that obviously I can use those log laws to simplify it dramatically)
16:44 <n54> hmm is there supposed to be something between 2 and e in that one?
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> no, multiplication
16:45 <n54> ah ok
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> ln(AB) = lnA + lnB right?
16:45 <n54> *hides* don't know :)
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> :)
16:46 <n54> actually... I think so on second thought
16:47 <n54> but I would take that with one metric tonne of salt hehe
16:48 * Lucifer_arma is very confident, or there wouldn't be any point to logarithmic differentiation
16:51 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_derivative seems to say so
16:51 <n54> leibniz rule?
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, we call that the product rule :)
16:53 <n54> yeah it seems there's loads of leibniz rules so it makes sense to call it something more direct
16:53 * n54 is currently wading through sigmas lol
16:57 <n54> but yeah you're right
16:57 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_logarithm
16:59 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
17:14 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:15 <Self_Destructo> #notes
17:15 <armabot> Self_Destructo: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== More than 100000 total errors detected. I'm not reporting any more.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Final error counts will be inaccurate. Go fix your program!
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Rerun with --error-limit=no to disable this cutoff. Note
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== that errors may occur in your program without prior warning from
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Valgrind, because errors are no longer being displayed.
17:17 <wrtlprnft> trying to figure out the memory leak, and i get that, without me even having entered the game
17:17 <wrtlprnft> all errors in my opengl driver... i guess it sucks
17:18 <n54> yikes
17:19 <n54> take one step back?
17:19 <n54> & hi SD :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== LEAK SUMMARY:
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== definitely lost: 198,709 bytes in 29 blocks.
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== possibly lost: 90,336 bytes in 7 blocks.
17:21 <wrtlprnft> wow
17:22 <wrtlprnft> now, key question: where does it tell me where that memory was allocated
17:22 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> there we go, found it :)
17:29 <spidey> sd
17:33 <n54> #g 49 sek to nok
17:33 <armabot> n54: 49 Swedish kronor = 41.3339692 Norwegian kroner
17:33 <n54> huh still more expensive in sweden than in norway, must be a first :o
17:35 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-036-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
17:35 <Lucifer_arma> I would expect norwegien hookers to be more expensive in sweden than in norway
17:35 <n54> heh no idea
17:36 <n54> according to the news they're all from nigeria anyhow :S it's like a kind of weird invasion all up through europe they say
17:38 <n54> or perhaps it has stopped by now, might be last summer this made headlines
17:39 <n54> have been*
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g 9^3
17:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 9^3 = 729
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g sqrt(729)
17:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: sqrt(729) = 27
17:39 <n54> that's peculiar
17:39 <n54> does it hold true for all numbers?
17:40 <n54> #g 8^3
17:40 <armabot> n54: 8^3 = 512
17:41 <n54> #g sqrt(512)
17:41 <armabot> n54: sqrt(512) = 22.627417
17:41 <n54> :P
17:41 <n54> #g 18^6
17:41 <armabot> n54: 18^6 = 34,012,224
17:42 <n54> #g sqrt(34012224)
17:42 <armabot> n54: sqrt(34,012,224) = 5,832
17:42 <n54> :8
17:48 <n54> btw I <3 hypertetrahedrons http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Simplex.html
17:48 -!- bashusr [n=bashusr@c-71-192-194-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
17:48 <bashusr> wrtlprnft: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> Vanhayes: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> spidey: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> wow
17:49 <bashusr> all these cool people
17:50 <Vanhayes> hey bashur
17:51 <bashusr> dude
17:51 <bashusr> we got nick complete!
17:51 <bashusr> why can't ANYone spell my name right.
17:51 <bashusr> :-/
17:51 <bashusr> bashuSr
17:51 <Vanhayes> why the usr tho?
17:51 <bashusr> /bin/bash usr
17:51 <bashusr> /usr
17:52 <Vanhayes> makes sense
17:52 <Vanhayes> a little anyway
17:52 <spidey> hey bashur
17:52 <bashusr> !finger bashusr|grep Shell
17:53 <bashusr> Directory: /home/bashusr Shell: /bin/bash
17:53 <bashusr> /bin/sh: bashusr: command not found
17:53 <bashusr> hmmm
17:53 <bashusr> Directory: /home/bashusr Shell: /bin/bash
17:53 <bashusr> i need to add an awk/sed command to that...
17:54 <Self_Destructo> spidey: i'm here now
17:54 <spidey> w
17:54 <spidey> b
17:54 <Self_Destructo> had to run to work because i left my wallet in the company truck
17:54 <wrtlprnft> hi bashusr
17:54 <Self_Destructo> ty
17:54 <spidey> heh
17:54 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: many people here, but at any given time most people idle
17:54 <Self_Destructo> what did you want?
17:55 <spidey> i forgot :/
17:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, and what's /bin/bash /usr supposed to do?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> what about calling yourself binbash?
17:57 <bashusr> i know
17:57 <bashusr> lol
17:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, and no, i never even really noticed whether it was bashusr or bashuser
17:57 <wrtlprnft> that's why you have tab completion bashusr bashusr bashusr bashusr
17:57 <bashusr> i know the idles of irc
17:57 <bashusr> wrtlprnft: yes
17:57 <bashusr> i know!
17:58 <bashusr> but Vanhayes doesn't use tab complete!
17:58 <Vanhayes> ya is it spelt bashusr in tron?
17:58 <bashusr> he misspelled my name!
17:58 <bashusr> yes!
17:58 <bashusr> bashusr bashusr bashusr
17:58 <Vanhayes> never really noticed
17:58 <wrtlprnft> Vnahaiess: test
17:58 <Vanhayes> lol
17:58 <bashusr> wha?
17:58 <bashusr> what are you testing?
17:58 <wrtlprnft> nothing
17:59 <wrtlprnft> but i misspelled his name :P
17:59 <wrtlprnft> (poor people that have to write my name without years of experience or tab completion :P )
17:59 <bashusr> /bin/bash /usr doesn't do anything
17:59 <bashusr> yeah
17:59 <bashusr> what's with your name?
17:59 <bashusr> it got no vowels!
17:59 <wrtlprnft> i know
17:59 <bashusr> i'm a bash user
17:59 <Vanhayes> its still word tho right?
18:00 <wrtlprnft> but not too many people can spell it right
18:00 <bashusr> i don't
18:00 <bashusr> i just ignore it
18:00 <bashusr> and just wrt
18:00 * wrtlprnft is a zsh user
18:00 <bashusr> !
18:00 <bashusr> DIE!
18:00 <bashusr> :)
18:00 <bashusr> jk
18:00 <wrtlprnft> where is that vim/emacs thing?
18:00 <bashusr> VIM!
18:00 <bashusr> die emacs!
18:01 * wrtlprnft loves vim too
18:01 <bashusr> vim+screen+irssi == all i need in life
18:01 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:01 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
18:01 <wrtlprnft> similar to me, i use all 3
18:01 <wrtlprnft> but i prefer gvim if a GUI is there :)
18:01 <bashusr> so.
18:01 <bashusr> what's with the nick?
18:02 <bashusr> 19:02:04 up 3 days, 10:05, 3 users, load average: 0.07, 0.05, 0.00
18:02 <bashusr> ew
18:02 <bashusr> :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> bah
18:02 <wrtlprnft> 01:01:54 up 40 days, 1:07, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.00
18:02 <bashusr> that's nothing!
18:02 <bashusr> i made it to 90!
18:02 <bashusr> never any higher though :(
18:02 <wrtlprnft> i once made it to over 100
18:03 <bashusr> yum
18:03 <wrtlprnft> that was around new year
18:03 <wrtlprnft> then i had a series of ram-related crashes (i think ram)
18:03 <bashusr> lol
18:03 <bashusr> my server crashed...
18:03 <bashusr> because i was walking around with it
18:03 <bashusr> and i probably shook the harddrive
18:03 <bashusr> tand everything just locked up
18:04 <wrtlprnft> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501&cid=1361469
18:04 <wrtlprnft> that one i meant
18:04 <wrtlprnft> or a variation of it, but i couldn't find the place i read it first
18:06 <bashusr> ll
18:07 <bashusr> lol
18:07 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> that's one reason to prefer vim
18:07 <wrtlprnft> basically everyone who says vi means vim
18:07 <wrtlprnft> but emacs is too diverted
18:07 <spidey> bashusr i hate you
18:07 <bashusr> huh?
18:07 <spidey> 19:07:50 up 1 day, 2:23, 1 user, load average: 2.42, 1.64, 1.18
18:07 <bashusr> lol
18:07 <spidey> my loads hardly ever go lower :/
18:08 <spidey> don't version me :p
18:08 <bashusr> what?!
18:08 <bashusr> why?
18:08 <spidey> it's not nice xD
18:08 <bashusr> you got a fast CPU
18:08 <spidey> yea
18:08 <bashusr> processor : 0
18:08 <bashusr> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
18:08 <bashusr> cpu family : 6
18:08 <bashusr> model : 5
18:08 <bashusr> model name : Pentium II (Deschutes)
18:08 <spidey> 2.4ghz celeron
18:08 <bashusr> stepping : 2
18:08 <bashusr> cpu MHz : 398.860
18:08 <bashusr> cache size : 512 KB
18:08 <bashusr> fdiv_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> hlt_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> f00f_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> coma_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> fpu : yes
18:08 <bashusr> fpu_exception : yes
18:08 <bashusr> cpuid level : 2
18:08 <bashusr> wp : yes
18:09 <bashusr> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr
18:09 <bashusr> bogomips : 799.06
18:09 <bashusr> oops
18:09 <bashusr> i got a 400Mhz box :_P
18:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:09 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
18:09 <spidey> processor : 0
18:09 <spidey> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
18:09 <spidey> cpu family : 15
18:09 <spidey> model : 2
18:09 <spidey> model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
18:09 <wrtlprnft> my server is like 0.5MHz faster than yours bashusr
18:09 <spidey> stepping : 9
18:09 <spidey> cpu MHz : 2393.495
18:09 <spidey> cache size : 128 KB
18:09 <wrtlprnft> Linux laptop 2.6.16.18 #1 PREEMPT Sat May 27 09:27:36 CDT 2006 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1300MHz GNU/Linux
18:09 <wrtlprnft> beat that
18:10 <spidey> my windows box beats it
18:10 <spidey> :p
18:10 <wrtlprnft> 2.6.16.19 is installed, waiting for restart
18:10 <bashusr> i will
18:10 <bashusr> my new computer
18:10 <bashusr> a AMD Athlon X2 4400+ is coming this Friday
18:10 <wrtlprnft> spidey: i meant the kernel, not the processor
18:10 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ uname -mrs
18:10 <spidey> Linux 2.6.15-1-586tsc i686
18:10 <spidey> :/
18:10 <bashusr> beat all you poor folks
18:10 <wrtlprnft> pfft
18:11 <bashusr> but...
18:11 <spidey> how much ram you ot wrtl?
18:11 <bashusr> i had to skimp out on GPU
18:11 <spidey> i'll have around 868mb in a few weeks
18:11 <spidey> in this box
18:12 <spidey> and512mb in the windows box
18:12 <bashusr> you think onboard GPU is ok for tron?
18:12 <spidey> then 2 128sticks left :p
18:12 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ free -m ~ total used free shared buffers cached
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Mem: 1010 799 211 0 59 407
18:12 <wrtlprnft> -/+ buffers/cache: 332 678
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Swap: 488 0 488
18:12 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ free -m ~ total used free shared buffers cached
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Mem: 122 119 2 0 41 35
18:12 <wrtlprnft> -/+ buffers/cache: 42 79
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Swap: 494 17 476
18:13 <spidey> i have a 1gig swap :/
18:13 <wrtlprnft> sec, why in hell is my swap full?
18:14 <wrtlprnft> or no, it's just misaligned in the IRC window O_O
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> you running with particles turned on?
18:14 <n54> *yawn* cya all
18:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
18:17 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i am
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> then that's probably why
18:20 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know that it is
18:21 <wrtlprnft> i was trying to get something useful out of it, but didn't succeed
18:21 <wrtlprnft> aah, finally a questions thread from someone who *tried* to search for the answers first :)
18:21 <wrtlprnft> a pleasure to answer
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> which thread is that?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=52101#52101
18:22 <bashusr> Lucifer_arma: are you the real lucifer
18:22 <bashusr> ?
18:22 <bashusr> or the spanish imposter?
18:23 <wrtlprnft> no, he's real
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm Player 1
18:23 <wrtlprnft> type /whois Lucifer_arma
18:23 <wrtlprnft> he's identified
18:23 <wrtlprnft> and around for ages, so i believe him
18:23 <bashusr> lol
18:23 <bashusr> he can be identified here forever
18:23 <wrtlprnft> actually, longer than me
18:23 <bashusr> but doesn't mean a thing
18:23 <bashusr> that spanish luci is annoying :-P
18:23 <bashusr> breaks way too late
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> puto
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> :)
18:24 * wrtlprnft might be a fake too
18:24 <wrtlprnft> this channel is all fake
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> <--- faker
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> is there an earthquake going on somewhere in north america?
18:25 <Luke-Jr> bashusr: software 'GPU' should be enough for Arma
18:25 <bashusr> it's a GeForce something or another
18:25 <bashusr> 300Mhz RAMDAC
18:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes, everything is shaking here like crazy
18:26 <Luke-Jr> bashusr: my point is that it should work with just a 2D video card-- we don't require 3D acceleration
18:26 <wrtlprnft> ;)
18:26 <bashusr> i ionly get 30-60 FPS
18:26 <bashusr> i want my 1000 FPS!
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> why? Your eyes can't see faster than 90 fps anyway, assuming your monitor could show it faster
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> bendejo
18:26 <bashusr> lol
18:26 <bashusr> true
18:26 <bashusr> my refresh rate is only 60
18:26 <bashusr> cuz i got an LCD
18:26 <bashusr> but...
18:26 <bashusr> i want the ability!
18:27 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> then be happy with 60, any extra frames are just thrown away :)
18:27 * wrtlprnft is happy if he gets 25fps
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> ? what about having a more stable connection to the server and a more stable simulation because you're not wasting time rendering frames you can't see anyway?
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> nina
18:28 * Lucifer_arma looks for his enye key
18:28 <bashusr> lol
18:28 <bashusr> btw...
18:28 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: try a 400x300 resolution with textures, sparks and HUD off
18:28 <Lucifer_arma> #whois Lucifer_arma
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> awww, bot can't do a whois?
18:29 <wrtlprnft> #list user
18:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: capabilities, changename, hostmask, hostmask add, hostmask list, hostmask remove, identify, list, register, set password, set secure, stats, unidentify, unregister, username, and whoami
18:29 <wrtlprnft> #user stats
18:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I have 8 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 1 admin.
18:29 <bashusr> how come armagatron slows down when i switch windows?
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> 1 admin? heh
18:29 <bashusr> i get MAD lag...
18:29 <bashusr> the triangles span half the place
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, because you're a bash user, and bash technically doesn't support windows, and we don't support windows under bash
18:30 <bashusr> lol
18:30 * Lucifer_arma groans.
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> sorry
18:30 <bashusr> knew that was going to bite me someday...
18:30 <bashusr> but i'm not changing my nick after 4 years...
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, ummm, I don't know. Do you still have 3d acceleration in windowed mode? I've heard no, but my fps is the same.
18:30 * wrtlprnft would really prefer binbash
18:30 <bashusr> binladan
18:30 <bashusr> don't think so.
18:31 <bashusr> :-P
18:31 <wrtlprnft> i do have 3d accell
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> When /bin/fritz played I used to change my name to /bin/laden
18:31 <wrtlprnft> fullscreen and windowed make no difference for me
18:31 <wrtlprnft> if there's nothing overlapping, that is
18:31 <bashusr> well
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you've got your desktop loaded up with so much crap that gets swapped when in fullscreen mode and then brought into action again when you go to windowed?
18:31 <bashusr> maybe it's my 1Ghz processor currently
18:32 * Lucifer_arma suggests people not to expect serious answers from him when he's doing homework :)
18:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma echo /away homework
18:33 <wrtlprnft> aww
18:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot echo /away homework
18:33 <armabot> /away homework
18:33 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:33 <bashusr> armabot: echo i'm cool
18:33 <armabot> i'm cool
18:33 <bashusr> armabot: echo /me h0t
18:33 <armabot> /me h0t
18:33 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:33 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work, unfortunately
18:33 <wrtlprnft> #f
18:33 <bashusr> you can fix it
18:33 <armabot> Random Fortune: Scientists will study your brain to learn more about your distant cousin, Man.
18:33 <bashusr> you'll have to add a new command though...
18:34 <bashusr> a me command
18:34 <wrtlprnft> i guess so
18:34 <bashusr> because /me is actually not a regular PRIVMSG #CHANNEL
18:34 * wrtlprnft thought about it, but is no python pro
18:34 <bashusr> python!
18:34 <bashusr> i love that!
18:34 <wrtlprnft> yes, python
18:34 <wrtlprnft> #version
18:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
18:34 <bashusr> /usr/bin/env python
18:34 <wrtlprnft> then go and make one :)
18:34 <bashusr> no thanks.
18:34 <wrtlprnft> #armaservers
18:35 <bashusr> join #armaservers
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: CVS Test Server: Fortress (16 players) || Norm's Place (11 players) || Swampland in 2.7.1 (5 players) || cps (4 players) || ~*SpeedeRs*~ Server! �FoC� (4 players) || basementunderground.net (4 players) || Shrunkland in 2.8 (4 players) || Tigers Network Speed Blast (4 players) || ~"XzL.Accel Clan Server (4 players) || spirals Projekt Messerschmitt (2 players) || (1 more message)
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #more
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Fortress Practice: Sumo (2 players) || ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's Teamplay {100Mbit} (2 players) || Crazy Tronners Jedi Battle Fortress (2 players) || War spaet gestern... (acceleration, limited views) (1 players) || [armagetronad.de] sylvs tavern for teams (0 players)
18:35 <bashusr> #less
18:35 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less more
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #less
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: That's all, there is no more.
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less "echo $user: <imagine fancy scroll features here> [more $*]"
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:36 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:36 <bashusr> lol
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #more Luke-Jr
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Sorry, I can't find any mores for Luke-Jr
18:36 <bashusr> less is more
18:36 <bashusr> #less
18:36 <armabot> bashusr: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
18:36 <bashusr> #help
18:36 <armabot> bashusr: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #superdice 99 99
18:37 <armabot> Results: 2 || 80 || 88 || 53 || 96 || 3 || 12 || 19 || 58 || 83 || 19 || 65 || 90 || 69 || 60 || 55 || 91 || 31 || 65 || 61 || 63 || 16 || 23 || 5 || 81 || 14 || 14 || 58 || 6 || 66 || 69 || 7 || 46 || 58 || 59 || 43 || 60 || 71 || 62 || 19 || 55 || 80 || 84 || 45 || 49 || 44 || 99 || 41 || (2 more messages)
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #less
18:37 <armabot> n=wrtlprnf: <imagine fancy scroll features here> 75 || 65 || 3 || 38 || 81 || 25 || 43 || 63 || 39 || 56 || 22 || 44 || 22 || 90 || 51 || 68 || 49 || 11 || 12 || 10 || 81 || 73 || 28 || 36 || 54 || 13 || 81 || 3 || 56 || 80 || 44 || 31 || 46 || 46 || 69 || 28 || 71 || 12 || 90 || 10 || 68 || 12 || 54 || 90 || 3 || 5 || 59 || 51 || 15 |
18:37 <wrtlprnft> gah
18:37 <bashusr> superdice?!
18:37 <bashusr> lol
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less "echo $who: <imagine fancy scroll features here> [more $*]"
18:37 <bashusr> flood mode!
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah, superdice is a better #dice
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #dice
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #dice 50d50
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You can't roll more than 6 dice.
18:38 <wrtlprnft> #dice 10d10
18:38 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You can't roll more than 6 dice.
18:38 <bashusr> why can't you!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> why do they put an example in the help text that doesn't work?
18:38 <bashusr> your bot is limited!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> that's why there's #superdice
18:38 <bashusr> let me see the source
18:38 <bashusr> and i'll fix it!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: it's supybot and belongs to Lucifer_arma
18:38 <wrtlprnft> #insight
18:38 <bashusr> oh really.......
18:38 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The astronomical outgrowth of technological change will intensify the demise of our genetic diversity.
18:38 <bashusr> #owner
18:38 <wrtlprnft> *she
18:38 <wrtlprnft> she's a she
18:39 <bashusr> it's an it
18:39 <wrtlprnft> he's a he?
18:39 <bashusr> bots aren't people... and don't get me started!
18:39 <wrtlprnft> tell that Lucifer_arma
18:39 <wrtlprnft> #whoisshe bashusr
18:39 <armabot> bashusr: deja_vu is the girl for you!
18:39 <bashusr> #whoisshe
18:39 <armabot> bashusr: (whoisshe <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo $1: $randomnick is the girl for you!".
18:39 <bashusr> huh?
18:39 <bashusr> deja_vu: you aren't a girl?!
18:40 <wrtlprnft> try #woisshe wrtlprnft
18:40 <bashusr> #whoishe wrtlprnft
18:40 <bashusr> lol
18:40 <bashusr> no he
18:40 <bashusr> #whoami
18:40 <armabot> bashusr: I don't recognize you.
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> supybot is available under the gpl, iirc. ANywy, it's python
18:40 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: whoisShe
18:40 <bashusr> i know
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> and I'll take patches and crap happily :)
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> you don't think I'd run such mission-critical software with proprietary stuff, do you? ;)
18:41 <wrtlprnft> mission-critical?
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news
18:41 <bashusr> huh?
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
18:41 <bashusr> proprietary stuff?
18:41 <bashusr> what are you talking about?!
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #list news
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: add, change, news, old, and remove
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> proprietary software = closed source
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news add we now use SVN :)
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: 'we' is not a valid number of seconds.
18:41 <bashusr> i know................
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news add 100000 we now use SVN :)
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (news add [<channel>] <expires> <subject>: <text>) -- Adds a given news item of <text> to a channel with the given <subject>. If <expires> isn't 0, that news item will expire <expires> seconds from now. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
18:42 * wrtlprnft gives up, too stupid
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> #news
18:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
18:42 <bashusr> but most IRC bots aren't GPL
18:42 <bashusr> er
18:42 <bashusr> are*
18:42 <bashusr> i don't know a single bot that is proprietary
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> #news add 10000 Change of repository: We now use SVN. :)
18:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded. (News item #7 added)
18:42 <bashusr> it would never sell
18:43 <Lucifer_arma> #news 7
18:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: We now use SVN. :) (Subject: "Change of repository", added by Lucifer_arma on 06:42 PM, May 31, 2006, expires at 09:29 PM, May 31, 2006)
18:43 <Lucifer_arma> #news
18:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command; (#7) Change of repository
18:43 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's not really that hard
18:43 <wrtlprnft> true
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3^6
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3^6 = 729
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/6
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 728 / 6 = 121.333333
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/2
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 728 / 2 = 364
18:45 <wrtlprnft> #later tell bashusr that's armabot's most useful feature imho :)
18:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:45 <wrtlprnft> #mashuffle python bash armabot
18:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I found a broken link in the Markov chain. Maybe I received two bad links to start the chain.
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft yeah, it is. But this message command is neat too
18:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:46 <wrtlprnft> #m Lucifer_arma yeah, but it's just an alias
18:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:47 <Luke-Jr> #notes
18:47 * Lucifer_arma wonders again if armabot will deliver on actions
18:47 <wrtlprnft> grr, looks like that phil guy is an irc guru
18:47 <wrtlprnft> in tons of channels and identified
18:47 * Lucifer_arma notices that armabot doesn't deliver then
18:48 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
18:48 <LuciEatsPeople> heh
18:48 <Luke-Jr> why not?
18:48 <Luke-Jr> maybe it assumes /me is often Away
18:48 <LuciEatsPeople> now we'll see if armabot delivers on a name change :)
18:48 <wrtlprnft> i might have problems finding a time to grap his nick ;)
18:48 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
18:48 * Lucifer_arma didn't receive the message yet
18:48 <wrtlprnft> #m Luci* that LuciEatsPeople should get
18:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: ...
18:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
18:50 <wrtlprnft> ##
18:50 <Luke-Jr> I never get my notes
18:50 <armabot> Random Fortune: Fine's Corollary: || Functionality breeds Contempt.
18:50 <wrtlprnft> #notes Luke-Jr
18:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 4 days, 4 hours, and 11 minutes ago: <z-man> Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
18:50 <wrtlprnft> weird
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's an old message
18:51 * Lucifer_arma wonders if armabot has decreased the amount of PM traffic on the forums at all
18:51 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, that baby elephant's got huge ears!
18:53 <bashusr> #notes
18:53 <armabot> bashusr: I currently have notes waiting for a*, bashusr, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
18:53 <bashusr> wha?
18:53 <bashusr> i have a note?!
18:53 <bashusr> #notes bashusr
18:53 <armabot> bashusr: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
18:53 <wrtlprnft> (referring to ph's topic) why should some player decide which features don't get dome?
18:53 <wrtlprnft> *done
18:53 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: you just got the note
18:53 <wrtlprnft> by saying #notes (or anything)
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> players already decide that by not implementing any features
18:54 <wrtlprnft> louven wants to decide that we don't get maps or guns anf fancy stuff
18:55 <wrtlprnft> i have to say I'm not thrilled by guns, but as long as they don't look like guns they're fine
18:55 <joda_bot> ;)
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, he sure isn't going to implement that stuff
18:55 <wrtlprnft> but he can't stop anyone from implementing it if the devs want it
18:55 <Luke-Jr> we should include Mozart's Requiem as game music 8)
18:56 <wrtlprnft> have a GPL'd .ogg handy?
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> find a midi file or something that we can distribute and we can
18:56 * Lucifer_arma notes that sdl_mixer can handle midi files
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> the only catch is, we might have to render it to ogg for the openAL change, if that ever actually happens
18:56 * wrtlprnft thought Lucifer_arma was gonna throw away sdl_mixer
18:56 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: GPL'd? =p
18:57 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> Hi Vanhomosexuals
18:57 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:57 <Luke-Jr> I got an MP3
18:57 <wrtlprnft> #canada
18:57 <armabot> 4
18:57 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: GPL'd == released under the GPL
18:57 <wrtlprnft> or PD or something compatible
18:58 <Vanhayes> #canada
18:58 <armabot> 4
18:58 <Vanhayes> heh
18:58 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: do you see it correctly?
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #alias
18:58 <wrtlprnft> looks like IRSSI is the only one getting it right
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #list alias
18:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, less, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, (1 more message)
18:58 <Vanhayes> it is white four black background
18:58 <wrtlprnft> it
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #alias add texas "echo 1"
18:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #tex
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
18:58 <armabot> 1
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #canada
18:58 <armabot> 4
18:58 <wrtlprnft> 's supposed to liik like the flag in arma...
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, #texas < #canada
18:59 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: did you see it?
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> that was dumb
18:59 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:59 <bashusr> see what?
18:59 <wrtlprnft> well, it is
18:59 <Vanhayes> got the meaning anyway
18:59 <wrtlprnft> the canada flag
18:59 <bashusr> looks less like a flag
18:59 <bashusr> than in arma
18:59 <bashusr> the 4 looks like a 4 here
18:59 * wrtlprnft has to add a canadian flag to http://wrtlprnft.de/flaggen.htm one day
18:59 <wrtlprnft> :(
19:00 <bashusr> what's with you canadians?
19:00 <bashusr> your USA flag doesn't look right
19:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/canada.png
19:00 <Vanhayes> our us flag is non existant
19:00 <wrtlprnft> that's how it shoulc look like
19:01 <bashusr> looks like that wrtlprnft
19:01 <wrtlprnft> what brower/version/screenshot?
19:01 <bashusr> huh?
19:01 <bashusr> IE
19:01 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work in IE
19:01 <bashusr> i just see lines on the place
19:01 <bashusr> lol
19:01 <bashusr> ok
19:01 <wrtlprnft> the german text on the page says that
19:01 <Vanhayes> o ya forgot to thank u for sugesting opera way back wrtl
19:02 <bashusr> lol
19:02 <bashusr> ok
19:02 <Vanhayes> way better than IE
19:02 <bashusr> i can't read German
19:02 <bashusr> firefox!
19:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, you're welcome :)
19:02 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: ff should work
19:02 <bashusr> it takes too long to load
19:02 <wrtlprnft> and konqueror
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 7^3
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 7^3 = 343
19:02 <bashusr> firefox still doesn't catch my attention enough
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g -5^3
19:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, you're on linux, right?
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: -5^3 = -125
19:03 <wrtlprnft> so you use IE under wine?
19:03 <wrtlprnft> ir bash under cygwin?
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #g 343+125
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 343 + 125 = 468
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #g 468/9
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 468 / 9 = 52
19:03 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: I'm happy to have got someone to switch :)
19:03 <bashusr> ssh
19:03 <wrtlprnft> IE is a pain for web designers
19:03 <bashusr> i have a linux box
19:03 <bashusr> i agree
19:03 <bashusr> sorta
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> Ie SuCkS
19:04 <Vanhayes> it always froze up for me
19:04 * Lucifer_arma thinks it would be pretty funny if he turned out to be all the fake Lucifer's too
19:04 <bashusr> windows is my GUI
19:04 <bashusr> just works faster for me
19:05 <bashusr> and runs all the programs i need
19:05 <bashusr> putty is also my favorite
19:05 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/flagsie.png
19:06 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/flagsopera.png
19:06 <wrtlprnft> find the difference
19:06 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*4
19:06 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 16 * 4 = 64
19:07 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Success]
19:07 <wrtlprnft> success?
19:07 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
19:07 <joda_bot> Guess I'm done with this
19:07 <bashusr> fine
19:07 <bashusr> if everyone has their own nick site
19:07 <bashusr> i have to pull mine out too
19:07 <wrtlprnft> what is it for anywayws joda_bot?
19:07 <joda_bot> Only problem is that javascript does not allow to detect the country
19:07 <joda_bot> :|
19:08 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I wanted to make downloads easier
19:08 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: and the download button is gone now...
19:08 <joda_bot> many new players seem to have no clue how to navigate the sf files site
19:08 <joda_bot> ?
19:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.lucifer.com/
19:09 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/ffaa.png
19:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: If anyone can suggest a sane way to select the download mirrors I'd be happy, but I guess I can only offer a choice for that ... because proxies or other stuff will usually make any detection invalid
19:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what about server side detection?
19:10 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: just link to the mirror page?
19:10 <wrtlprnft> it just requires one click
19:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://lucifer.davefancella.com/
19:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Yes, what do you click on... before you get used to it, you click on sponsors ads and co
19:11 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got any javascript errors ?
19:12 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i like the first site more :P
19:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes i do get errors
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> the thing doesn't work for me, if it's supposed to do anything
19:15 <bashusr> 'who is alexander Chssenklo?
19:15 <bashusr> weirdo.
19:15 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: no wonder, syntax error
19:15 <wrtlprnft> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/download.js
19:16 <wrtlprnft> line 62, there's a , too much
19:16 <joda_bot> fixed
19:16 <joda_bot> any other problems ?
19:17 <bashusr> why javascript?
19:17 <bashusr> just use php
19:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah, really
19:17 <bashusr> and figure out where they are from server side...
19:17 <wrtlprnft> and the link should not depend on js anyways
19:17 <wrtlprnft> it's the only point of the page
19:17 <wrtlprnft> and i tend to surf with js disabled
19:18 <wrtlprnft> i only noticed you actually use js when you asked me if there were errors
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's a link?
19:19 * Lucifer_arma doesn't see a link
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> just the Tron link
19:21 <wrtlprnft> js is not the way to go for this, sorry
19:21 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: It's the same as http://mozilla.org/firefox download button
19:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: it's not nice I known, but it works and keeps server load low
19:22 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: just that I probably messed it up somewhere
19:22 <wrtlprnft> come on, a simple php script doesn't produce lots of server load
19:22 <joda_bot> depends on the hits
19:22 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: with the difference that the firefox thing actually shows something useful without JS
19:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/ffaaerror.png
19:23 <wrtlprnft> make your own sense of it...
19:23 <bashusr> i bet you firefox website
19:23 <bashusr> uses some sorta server side work
19:23 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: that will be fixed
19:23 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: you don't even need PHP
19:23 <wrtlprnft> you can just use mod_rewrite for that
19:24 <wrtlprnft> but don't depend on JS for that, i refuse
19:24 <joda_bot> hehe, do as you wish ;)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> and I think it's fine to just put all 3 links in the bubble
19:26 <wrtlprnft> linux, macos, win
19:26 <wrtlprnft> there are no different versions for different languages anyways
19:27 <joda_bot> I know
19:32 <bashusr> blue's dieing
19:33 <Vanhayes> nah we will win
19:33 <bashusr> blue's gonna lose!
19:35 <wrtlprnft> wtf is wrong with my conection again?
19:39 <Vanhayes> wrtl u got disconnected again?
19:40 <bashusr> wow
19:40 <bashusr> blue did win
19:40 <Vanhayes> told u
19:40 <wrtlprnft> yes i did
19:40 <wrtlprnft> but got a nice screenshot out of it
19:40 <wrtlprnft> all nongrinders
19:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:40 <Vanhayes> was i one of them?
19:41 <wrtlprnft> everyone was
19:41 <wrtlprnft> my connection must have broken just after the start
19:41 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:41 <Vanhayes> weird I saw u turning
19:42 -!- SD_away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:42 <wrtlprnft> very weird...
19:42 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:49 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=366
19:50 <wrtlprnft> talk about nongrinders :P
19:53 <Vanhayes> is that going to be the new HUD?
19:53 <wrtlprnft> no, that's just my version
19:54 <Vanhayes> but there is going to be a new one?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> it's gonna be slightly different, yes
19:54 * wrtlprnft digs out a screenshot
19:55 * wrtlprnft gives up and makes one O_O
19:56 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_2.png
19:56 <wrtlprnft> that colorful brake meter will go away, though
19:56 <wrtlprnft> it was just for testing
19:56 * Lucifer_arma is going to make his hud the default incam hud :)
19:57 <Vanhayes> I like the font, its more difined
19:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> and the rubber meter changes color :)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> it is red if it's almost full, yellow at about half and green if it's almost empty
19:59 <wrtlprnft> and the color change is smooth, of course
19:59 <Vanhayes> who made the HUD?
20:00 <wrtlprnft> uh, the cockpit stuff is mostly mine, with some inspiration from Lucifer_arma
20:00 <wrtlprnft> and the minimap belongs to jonathan
20:01 <Vanhayes> looks good, when is it going to be on armagetron?
20:01 <Vanhayes> for download i mean
20:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, i recall we were planning to release a development snapshot sometime soon
20:02 <wrtlprnft> but it'll take at least half a year before it turns into a final or beta or anything i guess
20:02 <Vanhayes> what is the meter in top right for?
20:02 <wrtlprnft> framerate
20:02 <wrtlprnft> right end is 50, left is 0
20:02 <wrtlprnft> or no, right is 100
20:03 <wrtlprnft> in my cockpit it's 50 since i never ever get above that
20:03 <wrtlprnft> my cockpit = the one in the other screenshots
20:04 <Vanhayes> how come it will take half a year to get in a beta?
20:04 <wrtlprnft> too many things that are still missing
20:04 <wrtlprnft> we have big plans...
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that's the price for having Luke-Jr Lucifer_arma in the team... they bloat every single change into a huge thing
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that's the only reason why we actually have cockpit files now
20:06 <wrtlprnft> it started out with me replacing the needle gauges by bar gauges
20:06 <wrtlprnft> then Lucifer_arma wanted the colors configurable by options
20:06 <wrtlprnft> and we figured that it would take us more than 36 new config items just for that
20:07 <wrtlprnft> so Lucifer_arma suggested turning the cockpit into an XML file, and voila, here you go
20:13 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:14 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:15 <Vanhayes> hmm what ever happened to that pigsty server? I liked to shoot
20:16 <wrtlprnft> use the race server :P
20:17 <wrtlprnft> can't shoot, but lay mines
20:17 <Vanhayes> lol o ya forgot bout that
20:17 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't support zombies, pig never released that version
20:17 <wrtlprnft> if it did i would have a zombie following everyone from start
20:17 <Vanhayes> lol would make them use boost
20:18 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:18 <Vanhayes> ok I'm gonna call it a night cya
20:19 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:23 <SD_away> Ponchiro says:
20:23 <SD_away> i wish there was a way in which you could use more rubber when you doublebinded and still have a tight bind
20:23 <SD_away> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
20:23 <SD_away> I 100% aggree!
20:24 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:25 <wrtlprnft> you mean cycle_rubber_delay and cycle_rubber_bonus?
20:25 <SD_away> well...
20:26 -!- SD_away is now known as Self_Destructo
20:30 <Self_Destructo> cycle_rubber_time
20:31 * Lucifer_arma is a slave to the power of bloat
20:31 * Lucifer_arma sings Bloatslave - Iron Maiden
20:32 <joda_bot> gn8
20:32 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-036-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
20:35 <wrtlprnft> night
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50681#50681 <--- no posts, no complaining
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i just got the camera modes for the cockpit working :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> with the result that the default cockpit file now doesn't have any widgets in incam mode
20:43 <wrtlprnft> due to too much copy and paste :P
20:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: then we just need someone to build releases :P
20:48 <Lucifer_arma> we should probably spend at least a couple of minutes assembling a cockpit that's, ummm, not a test cockpit file
20:49 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm serious about using my cockpit for the hud. Maybe add some widgets people have come to expect, but the general layout is about what I'd expect in a cockpit for a light cycle
20:49 <wrtlprnft> yeah, let me finish up the cameras first
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> probably label the widgets too
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I might fool with making a less testy and more playey cockpit :)
20:50 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> but when people say "Hey, this cockpit sucks, it should look like this" we should have a better answer than "Well, that's the one we use to test" :)
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> Whoah-oah-oah we're right, we're free, we'll fight, you'll see!
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> We're not gonna take it, No! We ain't gonna take it, We're not gonna take it anymore!
20:51 * Lucifer_arma loves that song
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> my wife took my two sons out the front door and disappeared. Dinner will be ready approximately 20 minutes after I start cooking, and I have no idea when she'll be back
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> should I start cooking anyway and just feed me and my daughter and let my wife scrounge? Or should I wait for her?
20:52 <wrtlprnft> we should make a "Cool Stuff To Try With The Dev Snapshot"
20:52 * Lucifer_arma will smoke one more cigarrette, then cook.
20:53 <wrtlprnft> that would include my cockpit file, including different fonts, etc
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, we should do that. :) That's cool.
20:53 <wrtlprnft> and your sound stuff of course
20:54 <wrtlprnft> yay the cam stuff finally works :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> after i proved myself unable to add three octal numbers
20:57 <wrtlprnft> Warning in void eWavData::LoadWavFile(const char*) in ../../src/engine/sound/eChannel.cpp:71 : Couldn't load wav file
20:57 <wrtlprnft> is there any elegant way to get rid of that error?
20:57 <wrtlprnft> or warning, whatever
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> disable the code that tells you about it, it's in eWavData somewhere, either the constructor or the Load method
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> umm, a slightly less drastic thing but more work (potentially) is to comment out the lines that load sound effects that don't exist. :)
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> That's in eSoundMixer's constructor.
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> I can take care of it, I'd opt for the second solution myself
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> but it'll be a little later, I'm cooking dinner with no sign of my wife showing up.
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> One of these days she's going to walk off and get herself into trouble, and I'm going to have any reason to worry because she does this shit all the time
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> +not
21:06 <wrtlprnft> I'll let you do it, it's your code :)
21:07 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
21:11 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090ADFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:16 -!- vircuser [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
21:27 -!- vircuser is now known as _GodTodd
21:28 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AC2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:39 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:42 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: what happened to make cvscheck? I can't find it as make svncheck and it worked yesterday...
21:52 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:59 <spidey> sd
22:00 <wrtlprnft> spidey: try saying Self_Destructo
22:00 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo:
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <wrtlprnft> that gets hilightet in most clients
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <wrtlprnft> ...
22:00 <spidey> :p
22:00 <wrtlprnft> actually for me it's enough to say anything that contains wrtl, font, hud, rotation or cockpit
22:01 <spidey> wrtl
22:01 <wrtlprnft> no, not rotation, actually
22:01 <spidey> hud
22:01 <wrtlprnft> but wrt is enough already
22:01 <spidey> font
22:01 <spidey> :D
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 Highlights:
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 1 wrt
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 2 font
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 3 cockpit
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 4 hud
22:01 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
22:01 <wrtlprnft> wb
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> re
22:02 * Lucifer_arma just ripped the paul simon song he's been wanting to hear
22:02 <wrtlprnft> check out the new SVN with the default HUD and switch to incam ;)
22:02 * Lucifer_arma loves the horns in this song
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's gonna be one of those songs where I tear up the grid when it comes on. :)
22:03 * Lucifer_arma is finally getting his music collection ripped to ogg vorbis so he can eliminate some of the mp3s laying around
22:04 <wrtlprnft> is there a lossless way from mp3 to ogg?
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> nope
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> the only way is to decode the mp3 back to what it was and encode that to ogg. It's the encode to ogg part that's lossy. :(
22:05 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that one's obvious
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i meant like you can turn JPEGs without loss
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> then I need a script that assembles a symlinked directory of songs. I decided to accept having separate directories for formats for the sake of keeping track of how many mp3s I have left
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> maybe the script can scan by genre and organize it that way. :)
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> no, that usually results in directories I never look in that I would look in if I browse by artist.
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> so something with just Luci in it
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> *say
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> #echo Luci, how are you?
22:21 <armabot> Luci, how are you?
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> I'm fine, how are you?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> how are you luci
22:28 <wrtlprnft> is everything ok LuCi?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> does it work Luci?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:28 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> works great, highlighted the second line too, so I guess it's not case sensitive
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft
22:29 <wrtlprnft> heh. found out about the /hilight command=
22:29 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> yessir
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(9)
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(9) = 2.19722458
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(1)
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^(11/6)
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^(11 / 6) = 2,048
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2048*6
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,048 * 6 = 12,288
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12288/11
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12,288 / 11 = 1,117.09091
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12282/11
23:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12,282 / 11 = 1,116.54545
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 14*11 + 12282
23:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (14 * 11) + 12,282 = 12,436
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1^0
23:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1^0 = 1
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2^0
23:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2^0 = 1
23:05 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@67.40.236.77] has joined #armagetron
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft does the cockpit file support the <settings> tag at all? I was thinking it'd be nice if the custom cam settings could be set in that file...
23:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft alternately, we might consider having a USE_COCKPIT_CUSTOM setting or similar and give the cockpit cam settings, although that's hardly ideal. Hmmm.....
23:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft what about hacking the camera to take its paramters from the cockpit file and doing away with custom cam for most practical purposes?
23:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:26 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
23:28 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> anybody here who knows anything about the chat code?
View entire month
DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.
• Website was created by nelg
• Design:
» Layout is loosely based on an old design by Durf.
» Icons on the tools page were originally by Royce, new icons added will try to follow some of the design language.
» Various other icon selections include icons from Crystal, crystalsvg, oxygen, and breeze icon themes.
» Other icons: fontawesome
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
Gridder
.