Log from 2006-05-06:
--- Log opened Fr Mai 05 23:35:20 2006
23:35 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
23:35 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
23:35 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
--- Log closed Fr Mai 05 23:35:42 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 06 09:26:23 2006
09:26 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
09:26 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
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--- Log closed Sat May 06 09:27:47 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 06 09:28:20 2006
09:28 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
09:28 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
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09:28 < wrtlprnft> neat
09:29 < wrtlprnft> now I get irssi started in a screen session everytime I boot up
09:30 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you weren't referring to a == top-heading == ?
09:31 < wrtlprnft_> I was referring to whether to use == heading == or = heading = for headings
09:31 * luke-jr__ wasn't aware = heading = would even work
09:31 < wrtlprnft_> it does and gets used on some older pages
09:32 < wrtlprnft_> and exactly because of that I'm telling people to use h2/==blah==
09:32 < luke-jr__> oh, I thought you were telling people to use ===blah=== because ==blah== was too big or something
09:32 < wrtlprnft_> no
09:32 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
09:33 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
09:33 * luke-jr__ peers
09:33 < luke-jr__> what ever happened to the efnet #armagetron people anyway?
09:34 < wrtlprnft> no idea there ever existed an #armagetron channel on another network
09:34 < luke-jr__> o
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:51:56 --> You are now talking on #armagetron
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:52:19 <Luke-Jr> ...
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:52:24 <armrelay> <Luke-Jr-efnet> ...
09:34 < luke-jr__> they used to be bridged
09:34 < wrtlprnft> anyone there?
09:36 < wrtlprnft> wrong: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Tronic
09:36 < wrtlprnft> correct: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Teamplay
09:36 < luke-jr__> ElronMacB-efnet, Petarius-efnet, Sputti-quakenet, cybex-quakenet, s474n-efnet, guru3-efnet, cybex-quakenet, icarus0-efnet, thunderb1-efnet, lsbnrdkil-efnet, \dev\null-efnet,
09:39 < luke-jr__> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Tronic?useskin=aan_orig
09:40 < wrtlprnft> yes?
09:40 < luke-jr__> yes
09:41 < luke-jr__> you're right, just thought you were attacking it for the wrong reasons or something
09:41 < wrtlprnft> nope i didn't :)
09:42 < wrtlprnft> wow just 100 packages left to re-emerge
09:42 < luke-jr__> o.o
09:42 < wrtlprnft> but one of them is openoffice so it's probably gonna take a while
09:42 < luke-jr__> why bother with it
09:43 < wrtlprnft> why not? Now I have gcc 3.4 and want everything compiled with it
09:43 < wrtlprnft> although gcc 3.3 seems to refuse to compile with gcc 3.4...
09:49 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: did you get my message on the font bug?
09:50 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
09:52 < Self_Destructo> Lackadaisical: hi
09:52 < Lackadaisical> hi
09:58 < wrtlprnft> yes I did but i have no idea what causes it...
09:59 < wrtlprnft> does it appear every time you enter fullscreen?
09:59 < wrtlprnft> what happens if you set FONT_TYPE to 1 or 2 and restart?
10:38 < Self_Destructo> ok, i'll try that... I didn't have the time to try to duplicate it though
10:40 < wrtlprnft> if it just happened once and doesn't appear again I can't help ;)
10:41 < Self_Destructo> ok, i just went from fullscreen to windowed and it did it...
10:43 < Self_Destructo> ok, it does it both ways for me
10:43 < Self_Destructo> from windowed to full and from full to winodwed
10:43 < wrtlprnft> weird
10:43 < wrtlprnft> with all FONT_TYPE settings (fom 0 to 3)?
10:46 < Self_Destructo> hmm...
10:46 < Self_Destructo> lemme check..
10:47 < Self_Destructo> FONT_TYPE is edited where?
10:47 < Self_Destructo> configs?
10:47 < wrtlprnft> console
10:47 < Self_Destructo> k
10:47 < wrtlprnft> enter it to the console and restart
10:49 < Self_Destructo> ewww
10:49 < wrtlprnft> ?
10:49 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: cause OpenOffice is dumb?
10:49 < wrtlprnft> it works fine for me
10:49 < Self_Destructo> i entered it into the console and all except for bottom left of my screen turned white
10:50 < wrtlprnft> a bit bloated, but it works
10:50 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: restart arma after that
10:51 < Self_Destructo> ok, i set it to 2 and now it works fine
10:51 < Self_Destructo> trying 1
10:51 < wrtlprnft> 1 should be slow, 2 looks ugly and 0 sucks, anyways... but I just wanna see if the bug disappears
10:52 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: KOffice works for the maybe one thing I need it for
10:52 < luke-jr__> and it isn't slow and bloated
10:52 < wrtlprnft> well, I want to use the same program on the computers in my school
10:53 < wrtlprnft> there's portable OOo which i have on my USB stick, and it's handy
10:54 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok 0 sucks, 1 is very slow, and 2 is very jagged
10:54 < Self_Destructo> I'm sticking wuth 3 :)
10:54 < wrtlprnft> that's what i told you... but what about the fullscreen bug?
10:55 < Self_Destructo> only on 3
10:55 < wrtlprnft> 1 looks best :D
10:55 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess you have to reupload the Textures of the font if the fullscreen mode is toggles
10:55 < joda_bot> toggled
10:55 < Self_Destructo> 1 looks good, but, it's a little fussy, like two layers of text, one a little ofcentered
10:55 < wrtlprnft> shouldn't ftgl do that?
10:56 < joda_bot> OpenGL context is destroyed and recreated or something like that, and thus you have to reupload the texutre
10:56 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'm not sure if the library cover that behaviour
10:56 < wrtlprnft> so I need to find out where the resolution switch is and re- load the font every time it changes
10:57 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Just in rTexture for *Load*
10:57 < joda_bot> that's called somewhere in game reloadTextures or something
10:57 < joda_bot> afaik
10:58 < wrtlprnft> gotta look for it once I'm finished with the foundation for the config rotation system
10:59 < Self_Destructo> :)
11:01 < n54> heeh it must be handy having someone around who previously started porting ftgl :D
11:01 < n54> hehe*
11:01 < wrtlprnft> :D
11:01 < n54> :)
11:01 < wrtlprnft> ehhe? eheh?
11:01 < luke-jr__> who?
11:01 < wrtlprnft> heeh! hehe?
11:01 < n54> just me crashing into the keyboard :)
11:01 < Self_Destructo> lol
11:02 * luke-jr__ stabs work
11:03 < luke-jr__> we should figure out a way to get income via AA ;)
11:03 < luke-jr__> then we'll all have more time for it
11:03 < wrtlprnft> hmm
11:05 < Self_Destructo> hmm :)
11:05 < Self_Destructo> marketing it?
11:06 < luke-jr__> ?
11:06 < Self_Destructo> it's kinfa hard to market and open source project though
11:06 < luke-jr__> maybe not
11:06 < luke-jr__> we can burn official CDs ;)
11:06 < Self_Destructo> yes
11:06 < luke-jr__> and not mention that it's a free download
11:06 < Self_Destructo> and who would get the money?
11:07 < wrtlprnft> you can make money with OSS... mysql and mozilla are examples
11:07 < luke-jr__> an easy way would be just have the developers all do their own CD selling individually
11:07 < luke-jr__> MySQL is not an example, since its money comes from closed source
11:07 < luke-jr__> maybe we could have a membership that gets people into some servers... eg, new code not integrated into CVS yet or something
11:08 < wrtlprnft> then take redhat instead
11:08 < wrtlprnft> after authentification
11:08 < luke-jr__> though then again... those new code are what we want tested more ;)
11:09 < luke-jr__> ok, new requirement for authentication: memberships in groups =p
11:09 < luke-jr__> eg, group key signs player key w/ expiration
11:10 < wrtlprnft> we already plan that, do we?
11:10 * Self_Destructo �tscript� 2.492beta by Tribe @ PTnet (http://tscript.page.vu)
11:10 < wrtlprnft> with clans as keysigners
11:10 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: I don't think so
11:10 < luke-jr__> clans aren't in the plan ATM
11:10 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: ?
11:10 < luke-jr__> other than their potency to host an auth server
11:10 < Self_Destructo> sorry
11:10 < wrtlprnft> clans or groups or teams, whatever
11:10 < Self_Destructo> was experimenting with a command
11:10 < luke-jr__> auth server is independent of clans/team, technically
11:11 < wrtlprnft> http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml <-- that the newest version of the rotation Self_Destructo?
11:12 < wrtlprnft> /msg armabot test
11:12 < Self_Destructo> umm, no
11:12 < wrtlprnft> then, which one is it?
11:12 < Self_Destructo> I've got some work to do on it...
11:12 < Self_Destructo> i can do it today if you want
11:13 < wrtlprnft> O well, I want the format to be more or less fixed before I start parsing ;)
11:13 < Self_Destructo> ok
11:13 < Self_Destructo> well, I'm adding <Mode> to it... to contain for the tournament stuff
11:13 < Self_Destructo> or different w/e modes someone wants
11:14 < luke-jr__> Anyway, authentication is one of the features that could use development funding... so how about present-day ideas? ;)
11:15 < luke-jr__> shouldn't be too difficult to put together a CD label... what would be a good price tag for the game? maybe $5 or so?
11:15 * wrtlprnft wouldn't buy it, to be honest
11:15 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you know it can be downloaded =p
11:16 < luke-jr__> you're also a developer
11:16 < luke-jr__> so there no "help support the team" incentive for you
11:16 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: enough with the idea
11:16 < wrtlprnft> I wouldn't buy GLTron on a CD either
11:16 < wrtlprnft> you have to include something that you can only get on that CD
11:16 < wrtlprnft> like special moviepacks and fonts and maps
11:16 < luke-jr__> ok, any ideas? =p
11:17 < luke-jr__> maps wouldn't work
11:18 < wrtlprnft> so resources are a bad concept, they can't be sold
11:18 < luke-jr__> they can, but it's harder to make them unobtainable
11:18 < Lackadaisical> maybe a thank you note from the developers :) or let the cd's be signed by the developers
11:18 < luke-jr__> because by their nature, all players need the map to play
11:19 < wrtlprnft> well, only owners of that CD could play ;)
11:19 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: unless we have a wide-scale CD selling area, that won't be too many
11:19 < luke-jr__> and if there's too few, people who have the CD can just distribute the map to other people manually or put it on a 3rd party server
11:21 < wrtlprnft> Or just sell the alphas
11:21 < wrtlprnft> you know, new features noone else has
11:21 < luke-jr__> hm!
11:21 < luke-jr__> alphas wouldn't be tested enough
11:21 < luke-jr__> but maybe the odd-versions
11:21 < luke-jr__> 0.3.x
11:22 < wrtlprnft> who cares about testing? It's sold, we have the money :D
11:22 < luke-jr__> we can have a minimal set of official testers for them prior to shipping, and the 'real' stable testing only needs to start w/ 0.4/1.0 betas
11:22 < wrtlprnft> if it doesn't work... too bad
11:22 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: if they suck, nobody will continue to buy updates =p
11:23 < wrtlprnft> anyways, someone can buy the alphas and put them on the internet for everybody
11:23 < luke-jr__> in the case of both alphas and (hopefully) 0.3.x, they'll be obsolete by then ;)
11:24 < wrtlprnft> then we need really rapid development
11:24 < luke-jr__> well, we need to push 0.3s faster
11:24 < luke-jr__> I think we should have one by now
11:25 < wrtlprnft> luke-jr__: great ideas there... maybe you should work for MS?
11:25 < wrtlprnft> that must be your dream company then :D
11:25 < luke-jr__> 0.3 isn't supposed to be stable
11:25 < luke-jr__> just tested
11:25 < luke-jr__> HEAD works fine for me right now
11:26 < wrtlprnft> uh
11:26 < luke-jr__> and it was your idea to use unstable releases, remember
11:26 < wrtlprnft> except that it always segfaults if you quit?
11:26 * luke-jr__ hasn't noticed
11:26 < wrtlprnft> mine does
11:26 < wrtlprnft> at least in debug mode
11:27 < wrtlprnft> doesn't in optimized mode
11:27 < luke-jr__> well, 0.3 releases wouldn't need to be debug
11:28 < wrtlprnft> at least it's not the other way ;)
11:28 < luke-jr__> the problems that scare me are the ones only in release mode
11:28 < luke-jr__> yeah
11:28 < wrtlprnft> at least in debug mode you can debug the bug
11:28 < luke-jr__> ;)
11:28 < luke-jr__> I don't use debug mode
11:28 < luke-jr__> it sucks
11:28 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml
11:28 < luke-jr__> I like fullscreen and sounds
11:28 < Self_Destructo> ok, updated
11:29 < wrtlprnft> so, there's a second setting for the mode?
11:29 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: so you do or don't like the idea of selling 0.3s?
11:29 < Self_Destructo> yes
11:29 < Self_Destructo> scroll down....
11:29 < Self_Destructo> example of ''tournament'' mode
11:29 < wrtlprnft> nope. this is OSS after all, and I'm not interested in the trouble
11:30 < wrtlprnft> if you sell it I don't mind if you give me some of the money, though ;)
11:30 < Self_Destructo> I'm not sure this ''tournament'' belongs there, but it's starting place
11:30 < luke-jr__> it's free software
11:30 < wrtlprnft> I don't like that... That should be a separate XML file
11:31 < luke-jr__> and neither OSS nor FS discourage charging money
11:31 < wrtlprnft> as i said, not interested in the trouble
11:32 * Self_Destructo will brb
11:32 < luke-jr__> what trouble?
11:33 < wrtlprnft> selling CDs...
11:34 * luke-jr__ doesn't see where there's trouble unless it's insanely popular
11:34 < wrtlprnft> well, you have to burn, label and ship the CDs, right? and in the end you need to get the money somehow
11:34 < luke-jr__> maybe not ship
11:35 < luke-jr__> I was just thinking selling em to random people you see around
11:35 < luke-jr__> and chat with
11:35 * wrtlprnft thinks that's even more trouble ;)
11:35 < luke-jr__> heh
11:36 < wrtlprnft> grr, battery empty... gotta recharge... bbiab wanna enjoy the sun here
11:37 < wrtlprnft> bad idea to run compile jobs while you're on battery anyways
11:37 < luke-jr__> well, maybe there's a way we could have like $1-$2 go to the developer doing the CD work and tally the rest up or something
11:38 < luke-jr__> the concept is obviously doomed to failure without support from all the developers, though
11:42 * Self_Destructo is back
11:42 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: The only thing that would make the CD worthwhile would be :
11:42 < joda_bot> make ArmagetronAd a portable app, add single player maps, and special maps with textures cycles and stuff
11:42 < joda_bot> E.g. art / mods/ maps for tron
11:43 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: if you want to make money, finish my program that i have been waiting months and month and months for
11:43 < luke-jr__> portable app? wtf?
11:43 < joda_bot> I guess we should not charge for the code but for the packs might be ;)
11:43 < luke-jr__> Self_Destructo: working on it =p
11:43 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: http://portableapps.com/
11:43 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: like always?
11:43 < joda_bot> Just make an installer for it, that owners can put on their USB stick
11:44 < joda_bot> But all modifications have to go back to cvs ... so well it's free all isn't it ?
11:44 < luke-jr__> Self_Destructo: got the weekend off from work, so if there's a period of time I'm not spending with family (we're visiting) (probably at night or such), I might make some major progress
11:46 < luke-jr__> joda_bot: Arma is already a "Portable App", just install it to a USB stick
11:47 < luke-jr__> we don't use the registry
11:49 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: We might make a smaller install though ;)
11:49 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: compress the exec with upx and co
11:49 < luke-jr__> ...
11:49 < luke-jr__> why?
11:50 < joda_bot> to make smaller on an usb stick or a disk or cell phone, if you carry it around with you ;)
11:51 < luke-jr__> Arma doesn't run on any cell phones AFAIK...
11:51 < luke-jr__> and it's plenty small enough for a USB stick...
11:52 < luke-jr__> Actually, I take back what I said... arma *isn't* a "Portable App"
11:52 < luke-jr__> since it uses the user's local dir now
11:53 < luke-jr__> maybe a simple hack like "if (datadir/removable exists) home=datadir/removable/"
11:54 < luke-jr__> and simply have the install do a mkdir datadir/removable when the user selects the "Portable App" option
11:56 < luke-jr__> anyhow, I need to get some sleep
11:56 < luke-jr__> bbl
12:22 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: is it possible to put some transparency into those meters?
12:31 < wrtlprnft> which ones?
12:31 < wrtlprnft> you can make the background and foreground of bar gauges transparent, yes
12:31 < wrtlprnft> just look at the <Color> tags :D
12:38 < Self_Destructo> ok
12:39 < Self_Destructo> i kind want to make my rubber meter big, but I want to kinda see through it so it doesn'r block me view either
12:45 < Self_Destructo> #chatlog
12:52 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: type COCKPIT_FILE wrtlprnft/testfile-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml into the console
12:52 < wrtlprnft> that gives you a huge rubbermeter that's a bit transparent
12:53 < wrtlprnft> and if you go to the global keyboard config and bind COCKPIT_KEY_1 and COCKPIT_KEY_2 you can use them to toggle the map and graphic rendering
12:54 < Self_Destructo> ok
12:55 < wrtlprnft> or at least make the graphic rendering very dark. handy on chico maps, then you can play entirely by HUD map
12:56 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
12:56 < wrtlprnft> hi z-man
12:56 < z-man> hi
12:56 < z-man> sorry for bouncing in an out
12:56 < wrtlprnft> where's the problem with that?
12:56 < z-man> does anyone know a way to neatly log out of IRC when you suspend your PC?
12:57 < z-man> I hate to be timing out
12:57 < wrtlprnft> dunno
12:57 < wrtlprnft> what client?
12:57 < z-man> people may assume I'm still there, but I can't even read the logs afterwards.
12:57 < z-man> konversation
12:57 < wrtlprnft> armabot :D
12:58 < z-man> yeah, but that's too cumbersome :)
12:58 < wrtlprnft> maybe some dcop stuff?
12:58 < z-man> you mean, send it a message?
12:58 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
12:59 < wrtlprnft> yes
13:00 < Self_Destructo> hi z-man
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> test
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> neat
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> that i sent through dcop :D
13:00 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
13:00 < wrtlprnft> very nice
13:00 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
13:01 < z-man> what's the command line?
13:01 < wrtlprnft> not sure yet
13:01 < wrtlprnft> that was kdcop
13:02 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
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13:02 < wrtlprnft> dcop konversation Konversation raw irc.freenode.org quit
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13:03 < wrtlprnft> worked?
13:03 < z-man> seems so, thanks!
13:03 < wrtlprnft> you're welcome :D
13:03 < z-man> It bounces right back, though
13:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:03 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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13:04 < wrtlprnft> well, suspend in time :D
13:04 < wrtlprnft> or maybe there's a better command, let me see
13:04 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
13:04 < z-man> I have about two seconds, should be enough. Send message, shut down network, suspend.
13:04 < wrtlprnft> yeah
13:04 < wrtlprnft> and on wakeup it automatically reconnects :D
13:05 < z-man> darn, I forgot. Do I use apm or acpi?
13:06 < wrtlprnft> no idea... suspend doesn't work on my machine :(
13:06 < wrtlprnft> it always crashes X11, and that kinda defeats the purpose
13:06 < z-man> kind of. I'm lucky enough and both work
13:06 < z-man> that's why I don't know which one is active :)
13:06 < wrtlprnft> well, acpi is "newer"
13:07 < z-man> With kernel 2.4, APM worked better
13:07 < z-man> but in 2.6, ACPI
13:07 * wrtlprnft_konver test
13:07 < wrtlprnft> omg
13:08 < wrtlprnft> there's a command that sends an action to all channels on all networks you're logged on =_o
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13:10 < z-man> ah, it's APM after all
13:10 < wrtlprnft> did you just suspend?
13:11 < z-man> no, not yet, testing that now
13:12 < wrtlprnft> ah ok
13:13 < Self_Destructo> scanf(''%d'', &n);
13:14 < Self_Destructo> oops
13:14 < wrtlprnft> you need to use " instead of ''
13:14 < Self_Destructo> ?
13:15 < wrtlprnft> assuming this is C code, strings need "..." around them, not ''...''
13:15 < z-man> hmm
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13:16 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you mean character arrays
13:16 < luke-jr__> ;)
13:16 < Self_Destructo> err, yes, it's basica C for now
13:16 < Self_Destructo> doing a refresher course..
13:16 < wrtlprnft> don't bother with scanf anyways... use cin
13:16 < Self_Destructo> and was compying several lines of that
13:17 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: cin isn't C
13:17 < wrtlprnft> but c++
13:17 < luke-jr__> and C++ sucks =p
13:17 < Self_Destructo> well, I'm doing what I was told to for not
13:17 < Self_Destructo> now
13:17 < wrtlprnft> and for arma purposes there's no need for legacy C functions :D
13:17 < luke-jr__> except that C > C++
13:18 < Self_Destructo> kinda like, I've always used printf for simple console programs, but he has me use puts sometimes
13:18 < wrtlprnft> pure C sucks
13:18 * z-man doesn't listen
13:18 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:18 < luke-jr__> puts would be for a string
13:18 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: pure C > C++
13:18 < Self_Destructo> well, pure C is where I gotta start
13:18 < wrtlprnft> guess so
13:18 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:18 < Self_Destructo> no matter, what, that's where I am starting, especially since I know some of it
13:19 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:19 < luke-jr__> my complain w/ pure C is that you can't have two functions w/ the same name and diff args
13:19 < luke-jr__> complaint*
13:19 < luke-jr__> but that's about it
13:19 < wrtlprnft> you can't? really?
13:19 < luke-jr__> nope
13:19 < wrtlprnft> totally forgot about that
13:20 < luke-jr__> IIRC, the reason C++ lets you is that it has those weird symbol names for funcs
13:20 < wrtlprnft> yes
13:20 < wrtlprnft> mangled ones
13:20 < wrtlprnft> void foo(int) becomes vfooi or something
13:20 < luke-jr__> err, not quite, IIRC
13:21 < luke-jr__> but maybe that's for non-objects or smth
13:21 * wrtlprnft checks
13:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:22 < wrtlprnft> 08048782 T _Z3foov
13:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:22 < luke-jr__> QString::fill(QChar) becomes _ZN7QString4fillE5QChari
13:22 < luke-jr__> I think
13:23 < luke-jr__> maybe it's QString::fill(QChar, int)
13:23 < wrtlprnft> void foo(int) becomes Z3fooi, anyways
13:23 < wrtlprnft> *_Z3fooi
13:23 < luke-jr__> yeah
13:23 < luke-jr__> what's Z3 vs ZN7?
13:23 < luke-jr__> oh!
13:23 < luke-jr__> lengths
13:24 < luke-jr__> strlen("QString") == 7
13:24 < luke-jr__> foo is 3
13:24 < wrtlprnft> and fill 4 :D
13:24 < luke-jr__> 'E' (extended?) length 5 'QChar'
13:24 * luke-jr__ begins writing C apps using C++ libs >:)
13:24 < luke-jr__> mwahaha, pure-C Qt
13:24 < wrtlprnft> how crazy is that?
13:25 < luke-jr__> pretty crazy =p
13:26 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
13:26 < luke-jr__> we're crazy enough already
13:26 < luke-jr__> reverse engineering C++ ABI stuff when the source is right there
13:26 < luke-jr__> =p
13:26 < wrtlprnft> how rude... koversation terminated!...
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13:27 * luke-jr__ pokes z-man
13:27 < z-man> hey, I'm testing suspend stuff
13:28 < z-man> don't get me into your holy war
13:28 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:28 < luke-jr__> z-man: Whatever, I'm planning to use C++ libs from pure C
13:28 < wrtlprnft> we were just trying to reverse- engineer those function names
13:28 < z-man> good luck
13:28 < z-man> I think there is a library that does that
13:29 < luke-jr__> lol, is there?
13:29 < luke-jr__> o.o
13:29 < z-man> it must be, I thing gdb is using it
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13:29 < wrtlprnft> there's there's c++filt...
13:29 < luke-jr__> what's that?
13:29 < wrtlprnft> a console command
13:30 < z-man> hey, I didn't ask for that suspend
13:30 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:30 < wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ c++filt _ZN7QString4fillE5QChari ~
13:30 < wrtlprnft> QString::fill(QChar, int)
13:31 < wrtlprnft> N might stand for namespace
13:31 < wrtlprnft> so after n comes the namespace "path"
13:32 < wrtlprnft> and after E the actual function name
13:32 < luke-jr__> _ZN4hahaEzzzzzzz
13:32 < luke-jr__> N is required, AFAIK
13:32 < wrtlprnft> haha(..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ...)
13:32 < luke-jr__> N and E are paired; both must either be non-present or present
13:32 < wrtlprnft> N seens to be only required if you have a namespace
13:33 < wrtlprnft> that makes more sense
13:33 < luke-jr__> does it?
13:33 < wrtlprnft> E might mean "End of function name"
13:33 < wrtlprnft> so after that come the arguments
13:34 < luke-jr__> _Z4hahaabcdefghijlmnostvwxyz
13:34 < wrtlprnft> _ZN4hahaElol = haha(long, unsigned __int128, long) lol
13:34 < luke-jr__> (long, unsigned __int128, long)
13:34 < wrtlprnft> yeah
13:35 < luke-jr__> (unsigned char, int)
13:36 < wrtlprnft> c++filt _ZN4test4asdf3fooE3bari = test::asdf::foo(bar, int)
13:36 < wrtlprnft> makes perfect sense now :D
13:36 < luke-jr__> ?
13:36 < luke-jr__> oh
13:36 < wrtlprnft> Now I get how they're created
13:37 < wrtlprnft> if you leave the E it doesn't know where the arguments start
13:37 < wrtlprnft> *omit
13:38 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["tttt"]
13:41 < spidey> wrtl
13:41 < spidey> you familar with php?
13:42 < Self_Destructo> hehe, lol
13:42 < spidey> hmm
13:43 < wrtlprnft> a bit
13:43 < spidey> you wouldn't know how to start a program via php from a remote webserver?
13:43 < wrtlprnft> system()?
13:43 < spidey> hmm
13:43 < wrtlprnft> but it only works if save_mode is off
13:43 < spidey> k
13:44 < luke-jr__> popen()?
13:44 < wrtlprnft> system is simpler if you don't want the output
13:44 < spidey> got webhosting,guy said if i installed the game server and all that i could run it from the account
13:44 < wrtlprnft> I use popen for eliza :D
13:44 < spidey> but i dunno how to start it from a linux webserver
13:44 < spidey> only done it on windows
13:44 < wrtlprnft> without SSH access?
13:45 < spidey> yea
13:45 < wrtlprnft> can you make a testfile that contains <?php phpinfo() ?> and open it in your browser?
13:45 < wrtlprnft> with a .php ending
13:45 < wrtlprnft> and search for save_mode
13:45 < spidey> not yet,still waiting for the paypal info to go through the bank
13:46 < spidey> they're slow around here >.>
13:46 < wrtlprnft> if safe_mode is on you have no chance
13:46 < spidey> k
13:46 < wrtlprnft> if it is off I don't know... it might actually work... but it's awkward, anyways
13:47 < spidey> it'll work
13:47 < spidey> i've seen someone do it
13:47 < spidey> i just don't know how
13:47 < spidey> on linux anyways :/
13:47 < luke-jr__> system("/path/to/start-server-script &")
13:48 < spidey> k,i'll try it in a bit(whenever the paypal info goes through) >.>
13:49 < luke-jr__> I hope Google's PayPal-killer is usable soon
13:49 < luke-jr__> PayPal needs to be killed
13:49 < spidey> lol
13:51 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: so the size tag is limited and both width and height must be equal...
13:51 < Self_Destructo> umm, i set it to 2 different settings, and I didn't have any problems...
13:55 < Self_Destructo> also, i was looking at the global settings,,, and with all the settings in there... is there a planned MP3 player or something?
13:56 < Self_Destructo> blah er...
13:56 < Self_Destructo> whoa
13:56 < Self_Destructo> i have to chat windows
13:56 < Self_Destructo> or rather entries
13:56 < Self_Destructo> hrm, it type here too
13:56 < Self_Destructo> hrm, ok i type here..
13:56 < Self_Destructo> lol
13:56 < Self_Destructo> dumb
13:57 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: if you set it to different values it gets stretched i think
13:57 < wrtlprnft> it isn't a square anymore with the default map
13:58 < wrtlprnft> and yes, there is a music player, but that's lucifer's buisness
14:00 < Self_Destructo> ok
14:01 < Self_Destructo> thx for using armabot..., my highlight script doesn't work
14:01 < wrtlprnft> highlight script?
14:01 < Self_Destructo> but it does tell me when someone pm's me
14:01 < wrtlprnft> hehe
14:01 < wrtlprnft> #tell wrtlprnft [f]
14:02 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo: it highlightes it and tell me someone said my name, or it's supposed to
14:02 < Self_Destructo> sd, like that
14:02 < Self_Destructo> #tell wrtlprnft [f]
14:02 < wrtlprnft> for me it only does if i'm not in that window
14:02 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR: yeah, same here i guess
14:02 < Self_Destructo> GRRR
14:03 < wrtlprnft> ?!
14:03 < Self_Destructo> i gott to do err and not er
14:03 * wrtlprnft is confused now
14:03 < Self_Destructo> or it will put someone that has er in thier anme and fill thier name in there
14:03 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR: see
14:03 < Self_Destructo> see, see
14:03 < Self_Destructo> err,see
14:04 < Self_Destructo> err, see
14:04 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR:
14:04 < Self_Destructo> err,
14:04 < Self_Destructo> see what I mean?
14:04 < wrtlprnft> is it that thing that when you type se: blah it expands it to Self_Destructo: blah?
14:05 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:05 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: test
14:05 < wrtlprnft> i see
14:05 < Self_Destructo> but for my self i have to type self
14:05 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo:
14:05 < wrtlprnft> /set completion_auto off
14:05 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo:
14:05 < wrtlprnft> that works in irssi
14:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:06 < Self_Destructo> umm, well, i want the suto completion...
14:06 < Self_Destructo> i just forget sometimes about how it reacts
14:06 < Self_Destructo> how far from getting that layout done?
14:06 < wrtlprnft> what about tab?
14:07 < wrtlprnft> currently quite far since you threw that new XML format at me
14:08 < Self_Destructo> tab?
14:08 < wrtlprnft> press se<tab>blah
14:08 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: blah
14:08 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo: aha
14:08 < wrtlprnft> waaay better than this creepy auto thing
14:08 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: aha
14:09 * wrtlprnft tests with Self_Destructo and luke-jr__ and deja_vu
14:09 < Self_Destructo> lemme see if it works if i turn the auto thing off
14:09 < wrtlprnft> it does
14:09 * deja_vu glares at wrtlprnft
14:09 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft hi luke-jr__ hi n54 hi deja_vu hi
14:09 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:10 < wrtlprnft> :D
14:10 * wrtlprnft resists the urge to type #wakespam
14:10 * deja_vu throws Self_Destructo a confused look :p
14:10 < Self_Destructo> hehe
14:10 < Self_Destructo> #wakespam
14:10 < armabot> Self_Destructo: armabot, cusco, deja_vu, guru3, joda_bot, luke-jr__, MaZuffeR, n54, Self_Destructo, spidey, wejp, and wrtlprnft
14:11 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:11 < Self_Destructo> i didn't know what it did
14:11 < wrtlprnft> wasn't me
14:11 < guru3> what
14:11 < Self_Destructo> so i was curious
14:11 < Self_Destructo> sorry
14:11 * Self_Destructo was too curious
14:12 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you can always type #help wakespam
14:12 < Self_Destructo> #help wakespam
14:12 < armabot> Self_Destructo: (wakespam <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "channel nicks $channel".
14:12 < Self_Destructo> doesn't help much
14:12 * wrtlprnft resists the urge to tell Self_Destructo to try #ignoreme
14:12 < Self_Destructo> haha
14:13 < Self_Destructo> that one is well implied
14:13 < wrtlprnft> better make a better alias for it...
14:13 < wrtlprnft> #alias add surprise ignoreme
14:13 < armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
14:14 < deja_vu> ^^
14:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:14 < wrtlprnft> wb z-man
14:15 < Self_Destructo> z-man: WB
14:15 < wrtlprnft> actually you still timed out :(
14:15 < z-man> Don't hello-spam :)
14:15 < z-man> yes
14:15 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:16 < z-man> Two problems: the message doesn't arrive in time, and from the suspend script, the DCOP server is unreachable.
14:16 < z-man> I had the same trouble with activating a locking screen saver on suspend.
14:16 * Self_Destructo turn on some Bluegrass music and studies programming...
14:16 < wrtlprnft> ? is it bad if I say hello a second after you joined?
14:16 < z-man> wrtlprnft: no, but it's not like the arrival of someone new in a chat channel is something noteworthy (IMHO)
14:17 < z-man> Not going into "Hi" "Hi back" fireworks prevents a lot of communication clutter
14:18 < z-man> That is, of course, if you actually have something to tell me, starting with a nice "Hi" is welcome :
14:18 < z-man> )
14:18 < z-man> :)
14:18 < wrtlprnft> well, i told you you timed out
14:18 < z-man> oh, right.
14:18 < z-man> I guess that counts.
14:18 * wrtlprnft knows that's a bad excuse since when he said wb he didn't think about saying that
14:19 < Self_Destructo> z-man: did you see if my server is detected on the server list?
14:19 < z-man> Which server?
14:20 < Self_Destructo> mine, ~''XzL...
14:20 < wrtlprnft> with the current config system, is there a way to specify a callback that gets called if the value gets changed?
14:21 < wrtlprnft> I could use that for the COCKPIT_FILE and ROTATION_FILE settings...
14:21 < wrtlprnft> the current code just caches the old value and checks every 100 frames, which isn't exactly elegant
14:23 < z-man> Self_Destructo: yes, I see it and can join.
14:23 < Self_Destructo> ok
14:23 < Self_Destructo> , hrm
14:23 < z-man> wrtlprnft: no, you'd have to add it.
14:24 < wrtlprnft> well, then, guess I will
14:24 < wrtlprnft> I need it for the font stuff as well
14:24 < wrtlprnft> it needs to reload the font if font_type changes or the screen becomes a mess
14:26 < Self_Destructo> z-man: hrm, it's not on the list for me or anyone else.
14:26 < Self_Destructo> and I've restarted it several times
14:27 < Self_Destructo> grr, i keep putting an '';'' at then end of my if (expression)
14:28 < wrtlprnft> aww that sucks, I know
14:28 < wrtlprnft> it's even more stupid after a while or for
14:28 < wrtlprnft> stupid = hard to debug for a beginner
14:29 < Self_Destructo> yeah
14:29 < z-man> Self_Destructo: hmm, right, the master servers don't seem to know about it, I had it still in my frommaster.srv
14:32 < z-man> Self_Destructo: that's strange, it appears in the logs just fine
14:32 < wrtlprnft> z-man: would I put the callback pointer into tConfItemBase or tConfItem?
14:32 < z-man> oh wait, that's MBC
14:32 < z-man> Base
14:32 < wrtlprnft> ok
14:34 < z-man> Self_Destructo: the last lifesign from your server to my master server is six days old
14:34 < z-man> But it doesn't say contact was lost
14:35 < Self_Destructo> yeah... but waht happened i wonder...
14:35 < Self_Destructo> hm
14:35 < z-man> you have TALK_TO_MASTER set to 1, right?
14:36 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:36 < Self_Destructo> i double checked it last night
14:39 < z-man> and the connection data still should be 72.36.191.138:4535?
14:40 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:43 < Self_Destructo> have you guys ever heard bluegress before?
14:45 < z-man> Only in some cheesy movie
14:45 < z-man> Self_Destructo: I added your server manually, I don't know what may have happened
14:45 < Self_Destructo> ok, we had to add it manually last time remeber?
14:46 < z-man> Oh, right, it was on blues brothers 2000
14:46 < Self_Destructo> :)
14:46 < z-man> I remember I had to add someone manually, yes.
14:46 < Self_Destructo> that was me ;)
14:47 < Self_Destructo> z-man: thanks
14:47 < z-man> np
14:48 < z-man> Perhaps some firewall blocks outgoing connections from you
14:48 < Self_Destructo> hm, may
15:01 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-016-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
15:01 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-067-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
15:22 < Self_Destructo> z-man: need some help
15:22 < z-man> with what?
15:22 < Self_Destructo> while (esum <= 100 || osum <= 100) {
15:22 < Self_Destructo> scanf(''%d'', &n);
15:22 < Self_Destructo> if (n % 2 ==0)
15:22 < Self_Destructo> esum += n;
15:22 < Self_Destructo> else
15:22 < Self_Destructo> osum += n;
15:23 < Self_Destructo> }
15:23 < Self_Destructo> C
15:23 < Self_Destructo> this works...
15:23 < Self_Destructo> but it doesn't stop until both esum and isum go over 100.. why?
15:23 < z-man> it sums all entered even numbers in esum, and the odds in osum?
15:23 < Self_Destructo> yes
15:24 < z-man> 'while' continues while the condition is true
15:24 < z-man> and 'a || b' is true while a OR b is true
15:24 < Self_Destructo> ok, that should be an &&
15:24 < z-man> right
15:24 < Self_Destructo> dumb, i thought that at first :/
15:25 < Self_Destructo> ok, ty
15:25 < Self_Destructo> SWEET, my first C program I wrote right the first time like they wanted it
15:28 < Self_Destructo> crap
15:28 < Self_Destructo> he wanted switches
15:28 < Self_Destructo> easy enough I guess
15:28 < Self_Destructo> so many different way to do things :/
--- Log opened Sat May 06 15:51:45 2006
15:51 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:51 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
15:51 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
15:53 < wrtlprnft> d'oh. Don't recompile your network kernel modules with gcc 3.4 if the kernel was compiled with 3.3
15:57 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
15:57 < Self_Destructo> #chatlog
--- Log opened Sat May 06 15:59:07 2006
15:59 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:59 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
15:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
15:59 < Self_Destructo> works fine now
15:59 < z-man> oh, ok
15:59 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:59 < z-man> I apparently misinterpreted "still the same thing, grr"
15:59 < Self_Destructo> he just wanted me to use switch instead of if and else
16:00 < Self_Destructo> but my way still does the same thing
16:00 < z-man> right
16:00 < z-man> switch is only useful if there are more than two choices
16:00 < Self_Destructo> i dunno if it was for practice, or because switch is more efficeint...
16:00 < wrtlprnft_> actually, is switch any faster than if and elseif?
16:00 < z-man> it can be
16:01 < Self_Destructo> in this case it wasn't, i figure
16:01 < z-man> switch can work with function pointer arrays internally
16:01 < Self_Destructo> yeah, that's next /
16:01 < wrtlprnft_> you mean, like an array of adresses for goto calls?
16:01 < z-man> wrtlprnft_: yes
16:01 < Self_Destructo> yes
16:02 < wrtlprnft_> only works if your possible values are close together i guess
16:02 < z-man> right
16:02 < Self_Destructo> yeah
16:02 < z-man> Which is usually the case with a switch on an enum
16:02 < wrtlprnft_> yeah
16:03 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:03 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: btw, you should make size for you cockpit map <Size value=''0.w/e'' />
16:04 < Self_Destructo> instead of xsize and ysize
16:04 < Self_Destructo> so people don't make a mistake and get in out of proportion
16:05 < wrtlprnft> huh?
16:05 < wrtlprnft> isn't it <Size width=".5" height=".2" />?
16:05 < wrtlprnft> for bar gauges you need that
16:05 < Self_Destructo> yeah, i was going off the top of my head
16:06 < Self_Destructo> <Map camera=''*'' viewport=''top''>
16:06 < Self_Destructo> <Position x=''0.60'' y=''-0.55'' />
16:06 < Self_Destructo> <Size height=''0.45'' width=''0.50'' />
16:06 < Self_Destructo> </Map>
16:06 < wrtlprnft> where's the point in limiting the user's ability to specify the dimensions of an object?
16:06 < Self_Destructo> for the map specifically
16:06 < wrtlprnft> uh, can you tell your client to use " instead of ''?
16:06 < Self_Destructo> because now, a square map isn't square anymore
16:07 < wrtlprnft> actually that's a bug
16:07 < wrtlprnft> once i fully understand jonathan's code I want to make the map fit into the rectangle
16:07 < Self_Destructo> oook
16:07 < wrtlprnft> without stretching it
16:08 < Self_Destructo> but, which one are you going to go by?
16:08 < Self_Destructo> height or width?
16:08 < wrtlprnft> depends
16:08 < wrtlprnft> make the map as big as possible while still fitting in the width and height
16:08 < Self_Destructo> because one of them's gotta be the dominator
16:09 < Self_Destructo> true, but why? why not just keep it square?
16:09 < wrtlprnft> if your map is a bit higher than wide and the <Size> tag has a way bigger height than width the height will count
16:09 < Self_Destructo> then you have nothing to worry about
16:10 < wrtlprnft> because then I need two different size tags?
16:10 < Self_Destructo> yes
16:10 < wrtlprnft> well, that sucks
16:10 < Self_Destructo> that will work
16:11 < Self_Destructo> ok, anyways...
16:11 < Self_Destructo> scaling will work
16:14 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: the wiki is mediawiki right?
16:14 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
16:14 < Self_Destructo> hey
16:14 < Self_Destructo> the wiki is mediawiki right?
16:14 < wrtlprnft> yes
16:24 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: have you tried entering a nonexistent cockpit file yet?
16:25 < wrtlprnft> i know it crashes
16:26 < wrtlprnft> but i didn't find out what's wrong yet :(
16:28 < Lucifer_arma> yeah, the wiki is mediawiki, why?
16:29 < n54> hi
--- Log opened Sat May 06 16:33:07 2006
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16:33 < Lucifer_arma> but there's some new features on wikipedia that make me think the new version of mediawiki might have stuff in it that helps. It's on my todo list to check, but low priority
16:33 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:34 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:34 < wrtlprnft> grr
16:34 < Self_Destructo> yeah, I've noticed some of thier pages on thier ''mediawiki'' website are locked
16:36 < Self_Destructo> a guy sure has to put alot of time into making his own cockpit
16:36 < Lucifer_arma> http://www.drupalsites.net/ <-- sites that use Drupal
16:36 < Lucifer_arma> that is correct :)
16:36 < Self_Destructo> figures :
16:37 < Self_Destructo> lol, i looked are your luci and it is ''sick''
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> hopefully we'll all be commenting our cockpits well, and sometime in the future you'll make one by copying one of the others and modifying it to suit, but we're not there yet
16:37 < Self_Destructo> yours
16:37 < Self_Destructo> yeah
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> :) Try playing it
16:37 < Self_Destructo> hehe
16:37 < Self_Destructo> i did
16:37 < Self_Destructo> not fun :(
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> ? I love it.
16:38 < wrtlprnft> take mine :D
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i don't like a map centered, because that gets in the way of my view
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> Can't really go into why, I guess, but I like the map being right there, and everything else being right there next to the cycle.
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i don't like yours either wrtl
16:38 < wrtlprnft> then make your own
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i am
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> yeah, make your own. :) The more the merrier
16:38 < Self_Destructo> didn't you see what i said?
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: umm, need to straighten out the coordinate system
16:38 < wrtlprnft> uh, I missed a bit
16:39 < wrtlprnft> what's missing?
16:39 < Self_Destructo> 16:35 � ( Self_Destructo ) a guy sure has to put alot of time into making his own cockpit
16:39 < Lucifer_arma> some gauges disappear when I go to full-screen mode because of my aspect ratio
16:39 < Self_Destructo> in other words, i was implying that i was making one
16:39 < Lucifer_arma> gauges near the top disappear
16:39 < wrtlprnft> that's hard to change...
16:40 < wrtlprnft> the only thing i can do is compress them
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> so y needs to be [-1, 1] just like x somehow. Not sure how...
16:40 < Self_Destructo> mediawiki uses SVN
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> hmm, does the cockpit respect the internal aspect ratio setting?
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> I could try to finally straighten out my aspect ratio in the game. :)
16:41 < wrtlprnft> actually I could, now
16:41 < wrtlprnft> fonts don't have separate width and height settings anymore, so they don't care about being squished i think
16:42 < wrtlprnft> and rectangles and stuff doesn't really care either
17:03 < wrtlprnft> finally found the problem... arma doesn't crash anymore with a non- existent resource :)
17:04 < Self_Destructo> good :)
17:04 < Self_Destructo> you'll update CVS?
17:05 < wrtlprnft> not yet
17:05 < wrtlprnft> but soon
17:05 < Self_Destructo> umm, how do i set the meter to work up and down instead of side to side?
17:06 < Self_Destructo> #wake wrtlprnft
17:06 < wrtlprnft> look at my cockpit file ;=
17:06 < wrtlprnft> * ;)
17:06 < Self_Destructo> ooook
17:06 < Self_Destructo> :)
17:07 < wrtlprnft> it uses more or less all the features this system has :)
17:07 < Self_Destructo> k
17:08 < Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm
17:09 < n54> :)
17:11 < n54> lol I know that picture, it's a failed russion private enterprise but still an interesting vessel
17:11 < n54> journalists suck
17:11 < n54> I bet they picked it on purpose but forgot to add an explanation
17:13 < Self_Destructo> lol, talked via wordpad?
17:13 < n54> the guy has really changed his story quite a bit since first I read about him... :S
17:13 < Self_Destructo> haha, like a VNC connection
17:18 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: so basically you defined a shape
17:19 < wrtlprnft> ?
17:20 < wrtlprnft> there's a VerticalBarGauge tag
17:21 < Self_Destructo> see
17:22 * wrtlprnft sees nothing
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17:40 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
17:49 < Lucifer_arma> that guy's crazy
17:49 < Lucifer_arma> one thing all these ufologists seem to neglect to provide is a strong and compelling motivation for the government to keep these things secret
17:50 < Lucifer_arma> they give strong and compelling motivations for making this stuff known, and that's what defeats the argument
17:50 < Lucifer_arma> they just assume "government corruption" is good enough, and it's just not
17:51 < Self_Destructo> nope, it isn't
17:52 < n54> yeah I'm willing to admit the possibility of ufo's as alien visiters and whatnot but not the claims of the average "believer"
17:52 < n54> makes for great tv though :)
17:53 < n54> the guy is just making his story juicy and trying to play up fears about "going to guantanmo" and lots of other bs to escape the consequences of his actions
17:54 < n54> he has basically admitted to being a scriptkiddie so I don't truly care what happens to hiim
17:56 < Self_Destructo> scriptkiddie :)
17:56 < Self_Destructo> haven't heard that in a while
17:57 < n54> well that's good I guess :)
18:00 < n54> on flying things: always liked the idea of vertical airships like this http://www.airship.org/
18:06 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:15 < Self_Destructo> n54: interesting ships
18:16 < n54> nice looking imo :)
18:19 < Self_Destructo> ROFL
18:19 * n54 can't believe he said that of what amounts to 20-30 polycons of a flattened barrel hehe
18:19 < n54> but still.. :)
18:19 < Self_Destructo> I don't know what I did, but I open 16 instances of AA
18:20 < Self_Destructo> and I'm really having a hard time getting them off
18:20 < Self_Destructo> like popups
18:20 < n54> hehe
18:20 < Self_Destructo> down to 9 now
18:22 < Self_Destructo> lol, finally got them all off
18:27 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: can you write a DTD for your file? I need it, the XML parser refuses to load the rotation file
18:28 < Self_Destructo> i can, but not today
18:28 < Self_Destructo> :(
18:29 < wrtlprnft> I'll commit it anyways, all it does is emit an error
18:29 < Self_Destructo> ok
18:29 < Self_Destructo> I'll take it home and work on it over the weekend, even if all I can do is write it on a sheet of paper
18:29 < Self_Destructo> then i don't have alot of the thinking to do, i just got to type it in
18:31 < wrtlprnft> :)
18:32 * Self_Destructo wants a laptop
18:33 * wrtlprnft wants a laptop with free internet access everywhere
18:33 < Self_Destructo> hehe
18:34 < Self_Destructo> lvalue and r value are what?
18:34 < Self_Destructo> rvalue*
18:35 < wrtlprnft> rvalue is something you read from, and lvalue is something you write into
18:35 < wrtlprnft> lvalue = rvalue
18:35 < wrtlprnft> or lvalue < rvalue
18:35 < wrtlprnft> where internally lvalue's operator< gets called
18:35 < Self_Destructo> ok
18:36 < Self_Destructo> k
18:36 < wrtlprnft> committed... can you tell me if the bugs are fixed now?
18:36 < wrtlprnft> fullscreen and resource crash
18:37 < Self_Destructo> k
18:40 < Self_Destructo> i'm now starting to get a cockpit I like
18:41 * Self_Destructo is now compiling
18:45 < Lucifer_arma> fullscreen as in "gauges disappear in full screen on weird aspect ratios"?
18:46 < wrtlprnft> no
18:46 < wrtlprnft> as in "fonts get transformed to big blocks"
18:47 < wrtlprnft> I don't have a real solution for the gauge stuff...
18:47 < Lucifer_arma> scale the x and y coordinates to the aspect ratio?
18:48 < wrtlprnft> that helps for slight differences, but that's about it
18:48 < wrtlprnft> if you have some super- wide screen it'll totally deform everything
18:48 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: did you get my rotator ready?
18:48 < wrtlprnft> kinda, yes
18:49 < wrtlprnft> but it only throws an error because the DTD is missing
18:49 < n54> make avilable the use of pixel sizes not just relative ones? that would be my suggestion
18:50 < wrtlprnft> we support resplutions from 320xsomething to over 1024x678... pixels just don't make sense in that context
18:50 < Self_Destructo> Linking executable: Armagetron.exe
18:50 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x171df): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
18:50 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17fd9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
18:50 < Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:50 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (7 minutes, 49 seconds)
18:50 < Self_Destructo> 0 errors, 38 warnings
18:50 < Self_Destructo> it compiled... sorta
18:50 < n54> another additional measuring unit could be a percentage vertical in pixels and then used both for vertical and horisontal as a unit
18:50 < wrtlprnft> uh, you're missing files
18:51 < n54> the last one would be scalable in any way
18:51 < Self_Destructo> hrm, it's not linking the executable
18:51 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you need to get src/tron/gRotation.cpp and src/tron/gRotation.h
18:52 < wrtlprnft> they are in CVS
18:52 < Lucifer_arma> you dont' use pixels anyway. You need to be able to take a measure of the width and height and convert the coordinates given in the xml file to the actual onscreen coordinates
18:53 < wrtlprnft> and you probably need to get codeblocks to use them while compiling... probably you need to run some script again
18:53 < Lucifer_arma> the wiki explains the coordinate system, does the code know that that is the coordinate system? i.e. does the code know how tall the display is?
18:53 < wrtlprnft> I *could* do that with sr_screenWidth/Height
18:54 < wrtlprnft> the wiki mentions that the top coordinate varies at different screen proportions
18:54 < wrtlprnft> at least i hope so
18:54 < Lucifer_arma> yes, it does. But that's not terribly important. :) What's important is providing coordinates in the xml file that don't vary and converting them on the fly to the coordinates actually in use
18:55 < Lucifer_arma> in mathguy, I set everything up to use virtual pixels and a resolution of 1000x1000, then wrote a converter to convert to actual screen size
18:55 < Lucifer_arma> it turned out not to be as useful as I thought and I got rid of it, but the idea is still the same
18:55 < wrtlprnft> but then you either deform the widgets or risk having them ovelapping
18:56 < Lucifer_arma> deforming the widgets is acceptable as long as its consistent with the rest of the game's own deformation
18:56 < wrtlprnft> does the game deform anything?
18:56 < Lucifer_arma> and if it works with custom_aspect_ratio, which doesn't work at all afaik
18:57 < Lucifer_arma> yes, the whole game is deformed. Haven't you noticed in my screenshots? Jonathan bitches everytime I post a screenshot that the game is deformed
18:57 < wrtlprnft> uh, not really, they're scaled down
18:57 < Lucifer_arma> :) Click and look at them at 1:1
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> I've gotten used to it, but it would be nice if I could finally correct for it
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> hmmm.....
18:58 < wrtlprnft> ah, there's one. some of yours are scaled down even in the full vies
18:58 < wrtlprnft> w
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> then get a browser that works :)
18:58 < wrtlprnft> and now i still don't see anything since it's bigger than my screen
18:59 < wrtlprnft> scaled down to something like .7 now, and I don't see a lot of deformation...
18:59 < Lucifer_arma> you don't get scrollbars? You can scroll to something you should recognize, like the map, or a cycle or something, and see it
18:59 < wrtlprnft> I do get scrollbars, of course
18:59 * wrtlprnft gets out a ruler for the map
18:59 * wrtlprnft uses kruler :D
19:00 < wrtlprnft> now i see after I counted pixels... but not terrible
19:01 < wrtlprnft> the map shouldn't be deformed, as i said i have to fix that once I manage to fully understand jonathan's scaling code...
19:03 < Lucifer_arma> no hud in cvs head?
19:03 < wrtlprnft> err
19:03 < wrtlprnft> there should be
19:04 < wrtlprnft> does it print an error? anything?
19:05 < Lucifer_arma> custom_screen_aspect doesn't do anything, apparently, but it's set to 1.6 for some reason
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> no, no error that I could see
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> when I did make install it worked fine with my cockpit
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> maybe it just didn't find the resource. :) Did you change the default or something to test the broken resource code?
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19:08 * Self_Destructo is compiling again
19:10 < wrtlprnft> no i didn't
19:10 < Lucifer_arma> hmmm, the old problem with split screen getting totally deformed is gone. Maybe z-man fixed the whole aspect ratio thing awhile back and I never noticed...
19:10 < wrtlprnft> well, the cockpit gets messed up with splitscreen
19:17 < Self_Destructo> grrr
19:17 < Self_Destructo> mingw32-g++.exe: ..\armagetronad\src\tron\gSensor.cpp: No such file or directory
19:17 < Self_Destructo> mingw32-g++.exe: no input files
19:17 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (7 minutes, 7 seconds)
19:17 < wrtlprnft> uh
19:18 < Self_Destructo> heh
19:18 < Self_Destructo> it's there
19:18 < wrtlprnft> I didn't change anything there...
19:18 < Self_Destructo> i just clicked build and it moved on
19:18 < Self_Destructo> i dunno what that was all about though
19:18 < wrtlprnft> does it work now?
19:18 < Self_Destructo> still compiling
19:19 < Self_Destructo> oh, and thanks for all the comments
19:19 < wrtlprnft> doesn't it have incremental compiling?
19:19 < wrtlprnft> oh, yw... will still be hard enough for you to build on ;)
19:19 < Self_Destructo> looks like it
19:20 < wrtlprnft> I'm using templates, iterators, polymorphism, ... lotsa stuff
19:20 * wrtlprnft strongly recommends http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/contents.html
19:20 < Self_Destructo> because i know no C++ and I don't know the code behind the program either
19:21 < wrtlprnft> for not knowing c++ that link helps a lot
19:21 < Self_Destructo> do they got that in PDF form?
19:21 < wrtlprnft> yes
19:21 < Self_Destructo> where?
19:21 < Self_Destructo> i'll print it and read it in the evenings
19:21 < wrtlprnft> you should use that link anyways: http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/cplusplus.html
19:21 < wrtlprnft> in that italic text at the beginning is a link
19:22 < Self_Destructo> grrr
19:22 < Self_Destructo> Linking executable: Armagetron.exe
19:22 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x171df): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
19:22 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17fd9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
19:22 < Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:22 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (1 minutes, 0 seconds)
19:22 < Self_Destructo> gRotation::HandleNewRound()' must be our problem...
19:22 < wrtlprnft> same error I guess
19:22 < Self_Destructo> yes, basically
19:22 < wrtlprnft> that means it doesn't link/compile my files
19:23 < wrtlprnft> you have to add them to the project somehow
19:28 < Self_Destructo> ok, i added them to the project
19:28 < Self_Destructo> :)
19:28 * wrtlprnft prays for Self_Destructo
19:29 < Self_Destructo> ok
19:30 < Self_Destructo> font trouble is fixed...
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19:30 < wrtlprnft> :)
19:30 < Self_Destructo> but there is NO cockpit!!!!!!!!!!!
19:30 < Self_Destructo> nothing at all
19:30 < wrtlprnft> none at all
19:30 < Self_Destructo> nothing
19:30 < wrtlprnft> what is cockpit_file set to?
19:32 < Self_Destructo> Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
19:32 < Self_Destructo> ;
19:32 < Self_Destructo> ;)
19:33 < wrtlprnft> ah i see
19:33 < wrtlprnft> I changed the cockpit code to only load the cockpit file if COCKPIT_FILE changes...
19:33 < wrtlprnft> if you leave it at the default value it doesn't change, so nothing gets loaded
19:34 < Self_Destructo> hm
19:35 < Self_Destructo> why did you do that?
19:36 < wrtlprnft> because the old code was ugly
19:36 < wrtlprnft> checked every 100 frames if it changed... that's a hack
19:37 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@adsl-64-216-140-122.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net] has quit ["OUCH!!!"]
19:38 < Self_Destructo> well, this time it changes instantly
19:39 < wrtlprnft> yes
19:39 < wrtlprnft> fixed and committed now
19:39 < Self_Destructo> ok
19:40 < wrtlprnft> no wonder I didn't notice that bug :D
19:40 < wrtlprnft> I always use my own cockpit file
19:41 < Self_Destructo> works fine now :)
19:41 < wrtlprnft> ok.
19:42 < wrtlprnft> what about the font and resource loading bug now?
19:43 < spidey> damn
19:44 * spidey is anti-sleep
19:45 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: everything works great
19:45 < wrtlprnft> :)
19:47 * spidey pokes wrtlprnft
19:49 * Self_Destructo is going home
19:49 * Self_Destructo will be back monday
19:51 * Self_Destructo can find his jump drive
19:51 < Self_Destructo> can't*
--- Log opened Sat May 06 20:01:29 2006
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20:04 * wrtlprnft_ pokes spidey
20:04 * spidey stabs wrtlprnft_
20:04 < spidey> man
20:04 < spidey> i gotta goto sleep soon
20:04 < spidey> i signed yup for that sd tourney
20:04 < spidey> :/
20:04 < wrtlprnft_> lol
20:04 < spidey> up*
20:05 < spidey> been almost 48 hours without sleep
20:05 < wrtlprnft_> pff
20:05 < spidey> so i'ma be out for awhile
20:05 < wrtlprnft_> sleep is just a bad substitute for caffeeine anyways
20:05 < spidey> i'ma play some soldat and get some sleep i guess,
20:05 < spidey> bbl
20:05 -!- spidey is now known as spidey|hibernati
20:06 < spidey|hibernati> +ng
20:06 < spidey|hibernati> damn freenode
20:06 < wrtlprnft_> lol
20:06 < wrtlprnft_> what about SpidyHibernating?
20:07 < wrtlprnft_> or SpdyHbrntng?
20:09 < Self_Destructo> lol
20:10 < Self_Destructo> well, I've giving up and going home, I'll just have to go by memory on writing that DTD.
20:10 < Self_Destructo> cya guys
20:10 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|bbmonday
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Log from 2006-05-07:
--- Day changed Sun May 07 2006
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01:26 <Lucifer_arma> I want a script or a program that will slice a picture into smaller pictures so I can cut up the font picture and bring its individual glyph into the ttf font composer
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02:22 <Lucifer_arma> anybody want a truetype version of the old font? :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft Started a truetype version of the old font. Check the New font stuff thread...
02:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:23 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: sure
02:23 <guru3> is it cleaner?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> um, sure. Except, it only has 2 glyphs. :)
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> but those two glyphs are damn pretty!
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> So, as long as all you have to say as "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", you're fine
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05:26 <philippeqc> hi
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07:59 <philippeqc> /away
08:02 <philippeqc> the sun is shining, the weather is fine but I'm grounded inside, my alergies killing any possibility of enjoying the experience
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08:35 <n54> meh the chatlog isn't all that much good with only lucifer and actions being named... *wonders what broke it*
08:52 <wrtlprnft_> philippeqc: that sucks
08:52 <philippeqc> yep
08:52 <philippeqc> but then now I have a good excuse to sit in front of the computer
08:53 <philippeqc> and merge the last 4 weeks changes into my own development
08:53 <n54> it's the sneazy seasion here as well :)
08:53 <n54> season*
08:54 <philippeqc> lol
08:56 <philippeqc> poor lil me
08:57 <n54> ?
08:57 <philippeqc> cant go outside
08:57 <philippeqc> its so nice and sunny
08:58 <n54> meh it's only shiny happy people outside, I'll stay inside thank you very much
08:58 <philippeqc> I was all installed, with something to drink, a good book, but unable to concentrate
09:04 <n54> which book?
09:06 <wrtlprnft_> yay the arma font is now sufficient to talk about A, B, C, D, and !
09:10 <philippeqc> actually, 3. One scifi novel, one "fact book" (highly recommending it: Guns, Germs and Steel "A short history of everybody in the last 13,000 years") and a C++ book
09:11 <philippeqc> wrtl, I'm in dire need of your help
09:11 <philippeqc> just did a cvs update, and now rFont break everything on include
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> break everything? like what, error message?
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> you need ftgl installed
09:12 <philippeqc> it is
09:13 <philippeqc> and so is freetype2,
09:13 <wrtlprnft_> has to for ftgl to compile
09:13 <philippeqc> it was working last weekend, now I merged with my code, and I get many warning. I'm recompiling from cvs (without my code) just to be sure
09:13 <philippeqc> it that work, I'll check that I did run ./bootstrap.sh
09:14 -!- spidey|hibernati is now known as spidey
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> wow. You didn't sleep much longer than me spidey
09:14 <n54> or me :S
09:14 <spidey> how long'd you sleep?
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> from about 30 minutes after you left to about 30 minutes before you came
09:15 <n54> guess I win then :P
09:15 <spidey> what time did i leave?
09:15 <spidey> lol
09:15 * n54 curses phones
09:15 <spidey> man i miss mirc
09:15 <spidey> it has a away script >.>
09:15 * spidey is now playing: Eminem - Role Model
09:15 <wrtlprnft_> #last --from spidey --with bbl
09:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: [20:05:52] <spidey> bbl
09:16 <n54> #time
09:16 <armabot> n54: 09:16 AM, May 07, 2006
09:16 <philippeqc> hummm
09:16 * wrtlprnft_ is now playing: Armagetron Advanced: Yet another ligtcycle game
09:16 <spidey> man
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> *lightcycle
09:16 <spidey> watch this
09:16 <philippeqc> a pure cvs update -d and all configuration works, but not the one with my merged code
09:16 <spidey> spidey (5/6/2006 9:51:52 PM): k,night love
09:16 <spidey> Midget (5/6/2006 9:52:16 PM): nigh hun
09:16 <spidey> i went to sleep at 10pm
09:16 <spidey> my time
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> well, then either something's wrong with your code or your merging philippeqc ;)
09:17 <philippeqc> such insight!
09:17 <philippeqc> ;)
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you go anywhere near fonts?
09:17 <philippeqc> nada
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you use rTextField or friends?
09:17 <philippeqc> nope
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> weird
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> what files did you change?
09:18 * wrtlprnft_ would like to be able to hand that over to #eliza
09:18 <philippeqc> gWinzone* gParser* Makefile.am
09:18 <philippeqc> who is eliza?
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> #eliza hi there
09:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
09:18 <n54> a computer parrot emulation :)
09:19 <philippeqc> lol
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> n54: no, that would be #echo
09:19 <n54> well actually, that's wrong as parrots are fairly intelligent
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> #parrot hi there!
09:19 <armabot> hi there!
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:37:28: error: FTGLPixmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:38:28: error: FTGLBitmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:39:29: error: FTGLTextureFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:40:29: error: FTGLPolygonFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <n54> so eliza/freud is no parrot emulation
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> did you rerun configure
09:20 <philippeqc> yes
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> and do the gcc commands include -I*FTGL?
09:20 <philippeqc> DEBUGLEVEL=3 CODELEVEL=2 ../configure
09:21 <philippeqc> of course it doesnt
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> look at one of the gcc commands it prints...
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> do they contain -I/usr/include/FTGL?
09:22 <philippeqc> no it doenst
09:22 <philippeqc> oooo
09:22 <philippeqc> wait
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> then there's something wrong with the makefiles
09:22 <philippeqc> I must have made cvs update from src
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> lol
09:22 <philippeqc> yep
09:23 <philippeqc> knowing its a stupid mistake never help to fix it, doesnt it?
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> nope
09:23 <philippeqc> you still need to figure which is the one in question
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> yes
09:23 <philippeqc> reminds me of a dilbert strip
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> that reminds me of the ;- after
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> for/while error
09:24 <philippeqc> the boss comes to Alice and say "I've noticed that the right solution is always the last thing you try. I'd like you to change that"
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> works now?
09:25 <n54> lol
09:25 <philippeqc> compiling
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> if it's still compiling that error must be gone
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> or probably not
09:26 <philippeqc> for me it took a while before reaching this point
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> yeah, right
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> FTGL* is included from rFont.cpp, not rFont.h
09:26 <philippeqc> yes
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> we should really limit our conversation in ther to the characters "ABCD!"
09:27 <philippeqc> compiled
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> then I could test the new font :D
09:27 <philippeqc> Aaaa!
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> :D
09:28 <philippeqc> Bad!
09:28 <philippeqc> (you failed)
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> ?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> what's wrong?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> g2g in 2 minutes
09:28 <philippeqc> : is not in the font
09:28 <philippeqc> its good
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> but?
09:28 <philippeqc> forget it
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> well then, cya
09:29 <philippeqc> I dont have a color prob anymore
09:29 <philippeqc> thanks for the help
09:29 <philippeqc> cya
09:47 <n54> haha has anyone seen the segment "poll smoking" on the daily show? funny stuff :D
09:49 <luke-jr__> ...
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10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 16
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 14
10:56 <philippeqc> #get quote 14
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: The command "get" is available in the Herald, Praise, and Quote plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "get".
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 16
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #16: "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. - Brian Kernighan" (added by wrtlprnft at 04:21 PM, May 03, 2006)
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 17
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: There is no Quote with id #17 in my database for #armagetron.
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 15
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #15: "You see a body ripped appart, blood splatter on the ceiling, gore all over. Tell me, would you really suspect that worm making a run for it toward the door at 5 cm per minute? No you would not! - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 01:09 PM, April 25, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 1
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #1: "Was this compiled by our friend Sum Ting Wong? --WallyWallWhackr" (added by Lucifer_arma at 11:37 PM, March 23, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 2
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 3
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #3: "um, try spelling it wirght :) -- Lucifer" (added by Lucifer_arma at 10:22 PM, March 26, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 4
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #4: "left vertical bar is brakes, right one is an early-90s roleplaying game made by White Wolf before they went all Magic: The Gathering happy -- armabot (markov)" (added by wrtlprnft at 10:24 PM, March 26, 2006)
12:22 <n54> lazy sunday :)
12:23 <n54> hmm is quote #15 correct? *thought we changed it to include some more*
12:27 <philippeqc> #quote get 14
12:27 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #14: "On a full moon, Christopher Walken transform in a wereworm. Not as dangerous as a werewolf, but twice as cunning. - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 12:58 PM, April 25, 2006)
12:27 <philippeqc> the "more" is there
12:36 <n54> ooh
12:37 <philippeqc> if you see this as prob, feel free to fix it ;)
12:47 <philippeqc> http://pastebin.com/703794
12:47 <philippeqc> why cant B access A's aa?
12:47 <philippeqc> when J can access I's ii
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> weird
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> B(): A<T>() { cout << A<T>::aa <<endl;}
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> that works
12:55 <philippeqc> yes, indeed, it is very weird
12:56 <wrtlprnft_> as long as something works...
12:57 <philippeqc> yes, I was about to say that I was ready to use this
12:57 <philippeqc> but I was busy getting myself a glass of wine
12:57 <philippeqc> thanks
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> yw
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> look at my AutoDeque... the syntax is crazy at some places
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque(9
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque()
12:59 <philippeqc> that has its own crazyness
12:59 <wrtlprnft_> Why don't you just make a deque of tValue::Base references?
13:00 <wrtlprnft_> then you could handle different kinds of values in one deque and nested deques
13:00 <philippeqc> I'll have one such
13:00 <philippeqc> but I'll need a deque of <T>
13:01 <wrtlprnft_> if you say so... fine with me, as long ays it works nicely
13:01 <philippeqc> I'm working on a side file
13:02 <philippeqc> for the deque of tValue::Base, I just dont know what it would "mean"
13:02 <wrtlprnft_> it would be nested tValues
13:02 <philippeqc> GetInt() {std::deque<T> asdf; return asdf.front().GetInt();}
13:03 <philippeqc> yes, but there would be many for different needs
13:04 <philippeqc> for my part, I want to build a library of basic operation for the deque<T> over Base, such as "union" "intersection" "difference" "pick one"
13:04 <wrtlprnft_> don't you already have that with generic algorithms?
13:06 <philippeqc> not pick one
13:06 <philippeqc> but yes, I know that union ~ merge
13:06 <philippeqc> and such
13:09 <philippeqc> I'm still exploring, and before I commit, I'll bounce it on you. I'm sure you will be able to point out any faults of concept
13:10 <philippeqc> but I need that support for the zone capacities I've been workign on
13:10 <wrtlprnft_> I won't nitpick, I'm a noob to c++ myself :D
13:12 <philippeqc> I think its conceptually complex, so I'm quite sure I'll make a few concept errors
13:12 <philippeqc> (or at least I feel it is)
13:13 <wrtlprnft_> I'll have a look at it if you like, sure :)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_11.png
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> isn't that a great font? ;)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> so... complete...
13:15 <joda_bot> :)
13:15 <philippeqc> fix 0-9 and we can hex each other
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> lol
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> you can already write "AFFE!"
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> AFFE BAFF!
13:16 <philippeqc> 0x4c0x4f0x4c
13:16 <philippeqc> = lol
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> so i have to fix X as well :D
13:17 <philippeqc> 4c4f4c!
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> (affe = german word for monkey, baff = stunned)
13:17 <philippeqc> pff, who need to encoumber ourself with 0's and x's
13:17 <philippeqc> fad
13:19 <philippeqc> we will all need to brush off our l33t.
13:19 <philippeqc> its a neat font, what is your inspiration? is it the old one?
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> the whole point is to get rid of the old font code while allowing people to stay close to what they're used to
13:21 <wrtlprnft_> But I'd say we shouldn't make it the default
13:21 <philippeqc> I rarely defend a point on the ground of "it was the way it was before"
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> It won't be exactly the old font
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> but a bit like it
13:24 <philippeqc> Well, your doing a good job!
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> thanks!
13:24 <luke-jr__> how are you making it?
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> the A and ! are by luci, though
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> fontforge
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> look in the forums
13:24 <luke-jr__> ?
13:24 <luke-jr__> maybe later
13:25 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47194#47194
13:25 <philippeqc> You really got my hopes high! I dont see any quick way to do the deque union, intersection and subs. Grr
13:26 <wrtlprnft_> kinda hard if they're not sorted
13:26 <philippeqc> O(N*M)
13:27 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:27 <philippeqc> Order of N * M, where N is the size of the first deque, and M the second
13:27 <philippeqc> and if they are sorted, its O(N+M)
13:28 <philippeqc> well, I'll build them for small ranges, and if someone need more performance, he can always improve on them.
13:28 <wrtlprnft_> :)
13:30 <wrtlprnft_> font making with a touchpad is soo much fun, believe me
13:30 <philippeqc> ;)
13:30 <philippeqc> my gf got hers
13:30 <philippeqc> but I havent really tried it
13:31 * wrtlprnft_ just got a mouse from inside :D
13:31 <philippeqc> from inside?
13:31 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:32 * wrtlprnft_ is sitting outside with WLAN
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> sunny here
13:32 <philippeqc> oooooooooooooooo
13:32 <philippeqc> nice
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb".
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, manitoba
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, canada
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> !
13:32 <philippeqc> I trust you
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb, ca
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb, ca".
13:32 * wrtlprnft_ gives up
13:34 <philippeqc> poor you
13:34 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:35 <philippeqc> I beleive in you, its sunny, ok, I get it ;)
13:35 <philippeqc> :P
13:40 <guru3> #weather gothenburg, sweden
13:40 <armabot> guru3: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <guru3> grumble
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sweden
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sverige
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "stockholm, sverige".
13:40 <guru3> n54: english paper 2 tomorrow
13:56 <philippeqc> sooner this week there was a post about backdrop/desktop image from crazy tronner
13:56 <philippeqc> anyone can find back the post
13:58 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3415
14:01 <philippeqc> ha!!! he spelled tronner with only one "n"
14:01 <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what those files even are
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_12.png
14:03 <wrtlprnft_> with a bit of thinking you could almost have a conversation now!
14:03 <guru3> heh
14:04 <philippeqc> WOW
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> I should add the space to the font as well... that's the easiest char I guess
14:04 <guru3> operative word being almost eh?
14:04 <philippeqc> GXXD XXXK!
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> heh. L is in the font
14:05 <philippeqc> There is no L in Good work
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> oh
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> i thought that was good luck
14:05 <guru3> lol
14:05 <philippeqc> you dont seem to need luck, at the rate your going!
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> XX (that means ty)
14:07 <philippeqc> ok
14:07 <philippeqc> cya
14:07 <philippeqc> good night
14:09 <wrtlprnft_> night
14:09 <n54> ah hi guru3 I'm dong too much right now so I haven't kept up with the chat for an hour I think, but best of luck :D I'm just prrofreding a reply to lucifer then I'll start looking through the various irc channels :)
14:09 <n54> doing*
14:10 <guru3> cool
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14:26 <wrtlprnft_> wow. Q is a mess to create...
14:52 <n54> I'm impressed you pick up font forge so quickly:I tried fontforge a long while ago and it had issues then *goes to look at their page to see if I can see any changes*
14:55 <luke-jr__> <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:55 <luke-jr__> guru3: KWrite?
14:55 <luke-jr__> vim? nano?
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: nedit ?
14:56 <luke-jr__> sure
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: no idea though ;)
14:56 <luke-jr__> should be plain text =p
14:57 <luke-jr__> unless he wants syntax hilighting or something
14:57 <joda_bot> hm, does not make much sense otherwise
14:58 <guru3> luke-jr__: it's not plain text
14:58 <luke-jr__> guru3: um... you saved it as uncompressed?
14:58 <guru3> i'm just running qb in dosbox tho
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14:59 <guru3> good night ya'll
15:00 <n54> cya guru3 :)
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15:06 <wrtlprnft_> n54: fontforge isn't that hard, and they have a nice tutorial :)
15:06 <n54> it's still java is it?
15:07 <n54> yeah I looked a bit around but well... I wont try it right now anyway
15:07 <n54> I see it still has hinting problems etc.
15:08 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what it is written in... I just typed emerge fontforge and did something else while it compilied ;)
15:09 <wrtlprnft_> but it starts up to fast to be written in java
15:09 <n54> np :)
15:10 <n54> I wish it could simply import vector graphics, that would be nice, like from inkscape :)
15:11 <n54> but it will get better, it's obvious fromthe webpage it has continued development since last I tried it
15:12 <wrtlprnft_> :)
15:14 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
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15:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_13.png
15:23 <wrtlprnft> now you can even a cinversation if you yell all the time :D
15:26 <n54> hehe :)
15:27 <n54> man sweet work though, I want to try this myself at some point in the future
15:28 <wrtlprnft> still lots of space for refinements :D
15:29 <n54> theyae'll be done before I get up to speed :)
15:30 <wrtlprnft> nah
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15:38 <wrtlprnft> omg &- sign... that's gonna be a tough one...
15:41 <n54> :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> yay got all chars up to ASCII 90 now
17:00 <n54> cool
17:01 <wrtlprnft> which leaves me with a few easy chars like [] and all the lowercase letter
17:02 <wrtlprnft> Then some chars in upper ASCII, but fontforge can autogenerate all the accented chars by itself
17:02 <n54> ok
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17:25 <n54> don't forget the really weird ones like german double s and ae?? :)
17:25 <wrtlprnft> did you guys ever notice that the lowercase letters in the big font are one pixel lower than all other chars?
17:26 <wrtlprnft> heh. � isn't weird
17:26 <n54> yeah I fixed it privately at least but not sure if I did in the public
17:26 <wrtlprnft> and ae it makes by itself
17:26 <n54> ok
17:26 <wrtlprnft> question: should I fix it for my font?
17:27 <n54> try it, iirc there were something about it not sure if it was better to lower one or raise the other
17:27 <n54> what little I did I did years ago
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, all the other chars I already put on the right baseline
17:28 <n54> but actually that might not apply any more with ftgl so just make it equal
17:29 <n54> does ftgl have easily accesible kerning options?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
17:30 <wrtlprnft> and heck, we're talking about the messy old font :D who cares?
17:30 <n54> hehe :)
17:31 <n54> did you change stuff like lowercase m & w?
17:32 <wrtlprnft> I'm just starting with lowercase a
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17:33 <n54> ok, well if you want something similar to the default font but that has cahnged some of the ugliest stuff just search the forum for those old old alternatives I made
17:34 <n54> and it's public domain as far as am concerned
17:34 <n54> I*
17:35 <wrtlprnft> Well, I want to make it a bit close to the old font :D
17:35 <wrtlprnft> or Lucifer_arma wants that, to be exact
17:35 <n54> my alternative is very similar to the old font
17:35 <n54> extremely similar actually
17:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll look for it
17:36 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'm finished with all chars from space to lowercase a
17:36 <n54> hi Lucifer
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> do they work? I kept fooling with it last night and in-game, I started getting just red squares instead of the letters I drew
17:39 <wrtlprnft> same for me, but FONT_TYPE 2 and FONT_TYPE 1 work...
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> also, it might be worth dumping part of a serif font into the rest. :) I considered importing a generic serif font and starting from there, changing the letters to match instead of drawing them from scratch :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> those make it work?
17:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok. No worries then. :) We just disable the one that doesn't work, or we have an FAQ to deal with it :)
17:40 <wrtlprnft> I guess it's some wrong param in fontforge...
17:40 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: nope, that's the good one..
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 1 is slow and 2 is ugly
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 3 is the best one IMHO
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I relly really really hope Carmac starts hiring before I finish my degree. I don't want to live in the D/FW area, but if it's to work for Armadillo Aerospace, I think I can manage it.
17:49 <n54> hehe :)
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'll say the same thing about fonts that I did about cockpit. :) I'd like to have a new standard font that looks better than the old font and works with all the new stuff,
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> and the old font available for the "classic" look :)
17:50 <n54> Armadillo would be something that's true, however I've always been a bit dubious as to their designs, on the other hand doing practical experimentation has a lot of good to be said of it
17:50 <wrtlprnft> but for a new non-classic font we can as well use a premade font
17:50 <wrtlprnft> making a font with lots of unicode characters will be a pain
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> yes, and there are plenty of fonts, not just from fontforge but plenty of others. Also, we now support Adobe fonts too :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I don't know that Armadillo has much of a future, but they've got cool stuff going on, anyway. The neat thing about them is that I could be an X-cup competitor for awhile and hopefully get some wins on my record before moving on
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you're right about there being a lot of space industry around here. :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> AA is literally a 3 hour drive from my house. :)
17:55 <n54> hmm not sure if they're aiming for x-cup participation? it's been ages since I've been to their pages so well perhaps?
17:55 <n54> :)
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17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, AA is headed for x-cup participation.
17:59 <n54> ok
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> which is particularly neat because the X-cup is going to be held out where I went to high school, and my parents and brother and his family all live there
17:59 <n54> hehe lets just hope nothing blows up ;)
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> so if I could work for AA, not only would I get x-cup participation, but I also get to visit my parents and brother once a year :)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> (and my daughter gets an annual trip to the space museum she loves so much, in the complex where I used to volunteer at the planetarium back in high school)
18:01 <n54> x-cup 1 is in which state again?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> New Mexico. They're building the grounds for it out at White Sands
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ~12 hours drive from here
18:02 <n54> oh ok
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> White Sands is next to Alamogordo, of course, and I graduated from Alamogordo High School in 1993 :)
18:02 <n54> :)
18:03 <n54> I only know white sands for the military base and testing range and iirc a rather cool story about a small radiation mishap involving robots :)
18:03 <n54> oh and a cool micker rourke movie of course :D
18:03 <n54> mickey*
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a neat park where you can drive into the dunes and bbq and stuff
18:04 <n54> cool
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the base is 15 minutes from Holloman AFB, which in turn is about 5 minutes out of Alamogordo
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> there's also supposed to be a spaceport being built in Fort Stockton, which is the halfway point between Austin and El Paso, so ~5 hours drive from here
18:05 <n54> if at all able I'm going to got to thesouthwest before I die :)
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> AA takes their big rocket out there to test it
18:06 <n54> yeah they're sort of popping up all over the place, california, oklahoma...
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> the southwest is a beautiful place. If it wasn't such a backwater little hellhole, I'd still be living there.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> Kansas. :) My other brother has the company that has the security contract for the air port/space port in Salina, KS, where the Virgin guy is operating.
18:07 <n54> yeah but that can be good as well as bad
18:07 <n54> ok :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> you'd like it, I'm sure. You'd love the southwest. :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, time to start dinner, bbl
18:07 <n54> yeah I kind of think so too, not sure if that might not be a bad thing though lol :D
18:08 <n54> cya
18:09 <wrtlprnft> cya
18:13 <n54> btw yeah wrtlprnft fontmaking can be a pain
18:15 <n54> but it can also be kind of relaxing
18:15 <n54> in a sort of fiddly fashion
18:16 <wrtlprnft> :D
18:17 <n54> :)
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19:15 <cusco> bell
19:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:21 <n54> pling-pling?
19:22 <n54> I rarely see cusco talk and when he does it's a mystery! XD j/k :)
19:24 <spidey> man
19:24 <spidey> i love yahoo d00d
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: his cuzin hacked into da aol network
19:24 <spidey> self.obsession:
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: its called pingin ur ip
19:24 <spidey> spidey: i gotta put this on bash.org
19:24 <spidey> spidey: lmao
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: hey, when we have all the letters and most of the punctuation (and all the numbers), can we get FONT_FILE Armagetronad.ttf as default setting?
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> Also, we should consider making it a Type1 font instead.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> ok
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> And finally, if you looked at the unicode bit for fontforge, there's actually a simpler way to get accents on the letters. :)
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I got all the ascii now
19:29 <wrtlprnft> i know there is
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> but what I was thinking was making it a default when it's not necessarily finished is that it would maybe push people to finish it, if you don't get it finished, that is
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I'll commit, but until I have all the latin-1 chars I won't change the default
19:30 <wrtlprnft> well, there isn't a lot left now
19:30 <wrtlprnft> as you already noticed, there's lots of chars I can autogenerate
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> look into anchors in fontforge. It looks like you can just draw the accents themselves and then put anchors for the letters for where to put them, so you don't have to hand-draw the rest
19:30 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_14.png
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't. Did you install that autotrace program? I tried it, but it made fontforge segfault on me
19:31 <wrtlprnft> I'll see what it does
19:31 <n54> nice shot
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, looks pretty complete
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, all the ASCII chars :D
19:32 <Lucifer_arma> and everybody will stop complaining about "what about the old font? *whine*" :)
19:32 * wrtlprnft hopes so
19:32 <n54> :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> committed
19:43 <wrtlprnft> but to be honest, I like the new font more :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> So we should include some fonts and make a menu item to switch between them
19:43 <n54> :)
19:43 <n54> good idea
19:43 <wrtlprnft> and make that bitstream font I have now default and then offer the "traditional" fonr
19:44 <wrtlprnft> t
19:45 <n54> sure, just make a menu item that accepts adding new fonts too :)
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, eventually fonts should be resources
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> we also need to make available system fonts :(
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> and we need to have a way to ship fonts with resources
19:45 <wrtlprnft> someone else's job
19:46 <wrtlprnft> the system font stuff
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. :)
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> the resource manager should scan the system font directories, to be honest. So code that uses fonts doesn't care where it comes from...
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that build menu is grayed out for me :(
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> so if you could just hook the fonts into the resource manager and make the resource manager know about fonts that ship with the game, that's probably enough :)
19:47 <n54> I'd kinda prefer not to scan the system fonts but that's just because I've got so much crud there -- my problem I know :S :D
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> probably need a use flag of some sort to get it. Kubuntu's package was pretty generic and let me have everything--if I had enough ancillary programs installed, that is
19:48 <wrtlprnft> woot
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I'm in half-way agreement with you. Someone makes a cockpit that uses a system font on Windows.... see the problem?
19:48 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:48 <n54> yeah absolutely
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> so in a way, I'd like to ignore system fonts entirely and just make fonts resources and that's that.
19:48 <wrtlprnft> just made LOTS of characters with accents
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> :) figure out anchors, or was it something else?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> no, i had to select a buch of glyphs first
19:49 <wrtlprnft> omg
19:49 <n54> good, bad?
19:49 <Lucifer_arma> also, try generating it as a Type1 font and see if that straightens it out the way you want it for FONT_TYPE. Since ftgl supports other font formats, we don't have to marry ttf with this font.
19:50 <wrtlprnft> for i with accents it put the accent over the dot
19:50 <wrtlprnft> like � becomes an i with a dot and an accent over the dot
19:50 <n54> :D
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's bad, I take it? You want the accent in place of the dot?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <n54> it's possible to just do a manual fix?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> the only problem I saw with Type1 fonts is that there's no default glyph for a character that's missing, it just doesn't get displayed. So we'd have to fill it out a bit deeper
19:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 176-128
19:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 176 - 128 = 48
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> but then you can put your 42 in for unknown characters. :)
19:52 <wrtlprnft> what the heck IS a type1 font?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Adobe font. It's what's mostly used in Linux, since ttf has patent problems.
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Postscript font, that's it
19:52 <wrtlprnft> I don't really care... at least that would make those flags display again ;)
19:53 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:53 <armabot> 4
19:53 <n54> ttf has patent problems?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> probably had
19:54 <wrtlprnft> like gif
19:54 <n54> hmm
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> bytecode interpreter is patented
19:55 <wrtlprnft> is there any way to change the keybindings of fontforge
19:56 <wrtlprnft> a useful command, average pints, is bound to shift-ctrl-@, which I can't type on this keyboard
19:56 <n54> hmm that's disappointing, about ttf I mean
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 184-128
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 184 - 128 = 56
19:58 <wrtlprnft> thanks armabot :D
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know about changing keybinds in fontforge. The guy's pretty antisocial about the program, so it's not very configurable.
20:01 <wrtlprnft> Ah, there's a dotlessi glyph I can use :D
20:02 <n54> dotlessi = without a dot? lol :)
20:02 <wrtlprnft> thanks anyways... lots of klicking
20:03 <Lucifer_arma> I will admit, the only reason I fooled with it was to show we could have the old font in ttf or whatever. :) But if nobody had done it, I'd still have beat on it after finals.
20:04 <wrtlprnft> how do i get to unicode characters in that font?
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> um, the answer to that is in the fontforge docs. I read it, but don't remember what it said. :)
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I found it out now
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I have to convert the entire font
20:21 <wrtlprnft> #g 247-128
20:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 247 - 128 = 119
20:28 <wrtlprnft> g 272-128
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 272-128
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 272 - 128 = 144
20:29 <n54> what are you calculating?
20:32 <wrtlprnft> since there's a font_extra.png which contains all the chars >= 128 but imagemagic restarted at 0 when splitting that one I need to calculate which file I need to import to trace :D
20:32 <n54> oh :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> phew finished the sharp s (�) :D
20:42 <wrtlprnft> masterpiece :D
20:42 <n54> gaim doesn't show it but I guess it's a different s than the weird german one? :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> that's exactly that one, just that it's not weird
20:43 <n54> (the one that looks like a beta)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> like a beta
20:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:43 <n54> ah ok I thought that was a double s
20:43 <n54> of course it's weird ;D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> double s is ss :D
20:44 <n54> "snabel-S" i.e. "trunk-S" :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> but yes, they have a similar meaning
20:44 <wrtlprnft> � comes after "weak" vovels and ss after harder ones
20:44 <n54> yeah long long ago a different glyph with a similar sort of meaning was used in denmark and norway too :)
20:46 <n54> anyway I think it's a cool glyph (but it's still "weird") ;P
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21:05 <n54> hi
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15(16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 15 * (16 * 100) = 24,000
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 16) * 100 = 93.75
21:09 <wrtlprnft> yay finished the ae thingy now with that last horizontal scale of 93.75% :D
21:17 <n54> :)
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21:48 <wrtlprnft> ok, I'm calling it a day now... I'll care about the missing characters another time :D
21:52 <wrtlprnft> or someone else can... I committed my stuff
21:54 <n54> cya :)
21:55 <wrtlprnft> won't get rid of me quite yet, but no more font madness :D
21:55 <n54> hehe ok :)
21:56 <n54> what's the time in canada now?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> uh, here it is 10pm
21:58 <n54> west coast?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> right in the centre
21:58 <wrtlprnft> manitoba :D
21:59 <n54> ah ok
22:10 <wrtlprnft> now you are :D cya
22:10 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:10 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:10 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:30 * Lucifer_arma just changed all the defaults for fonts and is testing, will probably commit. :)
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47246#47246
22:48 <n54> very nice, I see some of the flaws but still
22:50 <n54> easy on the eyes :)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's a beautiful font
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I've always liked this font, I must admit, and as a vector font it looks really nice.
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> and of course, wrtlprnft is doing a nice job on it. :) He did the last font revision, before 0.2.8 was released, and did nothing but make it better.
22:58 <n54> :)
22:59 * Lucifer_arma hopes someone does a cvs update without reading the thread.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see the look on his face when he sees the new/old font. :)
22:59 <n54> :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> "wtf? No more truetype??!"
23:00 <n54> it's pure vector now or still based on truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> means, of course, we're ready to move the font into resources when we figure out how we'll do it.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> truetype is vector
23:00 <n54> yeah but you said no more truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> that's the joke. Because if you don't read the thread, you don't necessarily know there's a truetype version of the old font
23:01 <n54> oh... sorry guess I'm getting tired :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh.
23:01 * Lucifer_arma mumbles something about whooshing sounds
23:01 <n54> heh yeah it can whoosh a lot now
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I've made it a goal of mine to get rid of the textures directory :)
23:01 <n54> I probably wouldn't even hear the sound ;)
23:01 <n54> yeah?
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. It means having moviepacks turned into resources, of course, but it's something of a personal goal.
23:02 <n54> which one of htem? :)
23:02 <n54> aha the toplevel one - yeah I agree on that
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> sounds, too. Probably after the semester's out I'll take some time before the next semester starts to try to knock out some of the little projects I've got going on
23:03 <n54> I don't know how much easy distribution is a part of the discussion but it would be nice if moviepacks could simply be a zip file each
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> one of the things I want to do is turn moviepacks into resources. So it's finish the openAL implementation, turn moviepacks into resources.
23:03 <n54> including fonts
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> as it stands right now, everyone wants a resource to be distributed as a zip file, or an xml file, if that's all it is. Everyone, that is, except for luke-jr__
23:04 <n54> :D
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I think andi threw the last nail in the coffin of not using zip files when he pointed out the random access part of it. :)
23:04 <n54> random access?
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> now he just needs to tell us he did that with GLTron, and everyone will say "Oh shit, we have to do it too!"
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you don't have to unzip the file to read files inside it. You can read directly from the zip file.
23:05 <n54> yeah i know
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> one of the arguments against using zip files is that you'd have to unzip it after you download it. But you don't have to, apparently.
23:05 <n54> well that's good then :)
23:05 <n54> very common not to
23:06 <n54> at least on windows
23:06 <n54> and every time I come across it I always find it a bleassing and neat :)
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, in posix-land we like our gzip, that's true. And gzip only zips one file at a time, afaik. Hence tarballs.
23:07 <n54> hmm yeah I dislike tarballs, always feels cludgy but 7zip works with linux too
23:08 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: no, the argument is not over resource distribution, but over resource content
23:09 <n54> ok well that's even better, everyone wants zip then :)
23:09 <luke-jr__> n54: tar+*zip work better than zip ever could, by design
23:09 <n54> might have been true 10 years ago imo ;)
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> see? now we get to argue over what the argument is about. :)
23:10 <n54> well at least it's not over zip :D
23:10 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: ZIP does have that benefit over tar+*zip, but that doesn't apply to distribution
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr__: give facts, not assertions, or shut the fuck up. I'm really not in the mood for Luke's WOrld tonight.
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, I need to be studying anyway. Test's tomorrow
23:13 <n54> best of luck
23:17 <n54> morning = time for bed, cya all :)
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23:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 9*7
23:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 9 * 7 = 63
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln|9|
23:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(9)
23:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(9) = 2.19722458
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^5
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^5 = 1,073,741,824
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^(5/6)
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^(5 / 6) = 32
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 32*6
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 32 * 6 = 192
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*5 + 192
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (16 * 5) + 192 = 272
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> #g 272-16
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 272 - 16 = 256
23:48 <guru3> #g ln(-9)
23:48 <armabot> guru3: ln(-9) = 2.19722458 + 3.14159265 i
23:48 <guru3> heh
23:48 <guru3> english exam in a short while :D
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> fun
23:49 -!- luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> damn, have to notice when I get 1/2(ln9 - ln1) that it's 1/2(ln9/1), which is ln(sqrt(9))
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> I thought I was missing something when I did that, heh. :)
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> sec^2(theta) + 1 = tan(theta)?
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(e)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(e) = 1
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> :)
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(1)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0
Log from 2006-05-08:
--- Day changed Mon May 08 2006
00:03 <guru3> lol
00:03 <guru3> incidently, sqrt(9) = 3 ;)
00:04 <guru3> and 1 + tan^2(theta) = sec^2(theta)
00:05 <guru3> and f(x) = tan(theta) f'(x) = sec^2(theta)
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00:36 <CraYSuPeRcOm> whats up with fortress doesnt anyone play anymore?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> a lot of them are pllaying the american fortress server
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> um, has our match with mbc been scheduled? or do we forfeit?
00:41 <CraYSuPeRcOm> dont know , been out of the loop for awhile
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> me too. basically, if we find ourselves on friday without it scheduled, and without the other teams requiring a forfeit, I'm going to try to schedule and get it played
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, I'm out anyway. Finals week.
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> but I could use a little fortress-driven study break right now :)
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00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: Crazy Tronner's has a better server for fortress ;)
00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: eg, with maps
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> okay back sry
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> wife cant dod a damn thing by herself
00:52 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i do love the crazy tronners fortress luke but i think sometimes i still prefer the CLASSIC
00:53 <CraYSuPeRcOm> going to play some kind of game , cya
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01:27 <_Lucifer_arma> man, I love thunderstorms as much as the next guy, but three nights in a row?
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> damn wife keeps interupting me, that sucks i was justa about to start playing,
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i now have to sleep good night
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02:28 <z-man> #morning
02:28 <z-man> Eh, Lucifer is here, but not his bot?
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, gotta go turn on the other computer
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> power fluctuated with the last thunderstorm
03:30 <z-man> hope nothing broke
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> me too :)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> but man am I sick of thunderstorms. This one didn't look as threatening as the last two, but sooner or later that tree in my yard is going to give, and 50 pounds of wood will fall on my truck
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03:33 <z-man> If I had Texas Thunderstorms here, I'd be pissed at them, too. Luckily, ours are quite tame.
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh. When I was in Seattle for those 4 years, we had 1 thunderstorm. Lots of rain, only one thunderstorm.
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> all the people around me complained that they didn't get any sleep because of the "terrible thunderstorm". I managed to show some rare tact and didn't tell them it was weak. :)
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> this one had the 60mph gusts, but none of the fury of the one last night. That one was damn scary, with an hour of wild wind before the rain finally fell.
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> The one before that knocked out power for 15,000 people down in Austin, which is the city my suburb belongs to.
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> if we get another thunderstorm tomorrow night, I'm declaring natural disaster. :)
03:37 <z-man> To whom?
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> probably just my wife. and my calc teacher, although he won't consider it a reason for missing the test...
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> he did offer an automatic test extension when Rita was looking at us last semester, but didn't promise much more than a couple of days. :)
03:40 <z-man> Our flat probably is going to get flooded by the Rhine sooner or later. Hopefully later, after we moved out :) The previous record flood height has to be beaten by something like a meter to get to us.
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> is it just your relative height to the river? Or does the topography favor it?
03:43 <z-man> It's the relative height. We're on relatively high ground, but close to the river.
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> so the water would have to go through you before it found its way out of the valley?
03:43 <z-man> Other areas of the city are lower than us, but protected by natural dams (partly)
03:43 <z-man> yes
03:44 <z-man> and then it floods the part of town where all the rich guys live, har.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah. that kinda sucks. :) Still, there's the previous record, but the scientists are promising more extreme weather, which always seems to translate to flooding
03:44 <z-man> right
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> the rhine starts in snow-capped mountains, doesn't it?
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> then picks up a few tributaries along the way? Or am I confused? Heh.
03:45 <z-man> yes, it gets fed from the Alps
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> so a really nasty blizzard, or just a lot of snow, and more melt than usual might do it. Or a glacier in the wrong place melting more than usual...
03:46 <z-man> Exactly. One snowy winter and a sudden warmup in spring usually give us the most trouble
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> we're probably a few years away from that, at least. :)
03:47 * z-man hopes so
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no such danger around here, anyway. None of the rivers around here are fed by mountains, except maybe the rio grande. I think...
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no, the flooding danger here is thunderstorms. The wind, on the other hand...
03:48 <z-man> they can do nasty things
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> damn, my secret route home that skips the nasty intersection goes past a stream that tends to flood. It'll be flooded tomorrow and I won't be able to use it.
03:49 * Lucifer_arma remembers the news reports of 4 tornadoes ripping through downtown Ft Worth a few years back
03:52 <z-man> We've had one (1) tornado last month, coming suddenly, killing two people by surprise, and leaving again. In Hamburg, so not really here.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> wa. That's crazy.
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, turns out that tornadoes aren't an American mid-west phenomena. :) Although the american mid-west gets more by a respectable margin, they hit worldwide. :(
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> according to wikipedia, anyway, which knows everything.
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> that truetype version of the old font looks really nice. :)
03:56 <z-man> Yes, I tested it that morning. Think we should pack up 0.3.0 with it soon?
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> not sure. :)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ask me again after finals. There's at least one showstopper bug in the sound engine. I was hoping to get the openAL rewrite of the sound engine into 0.3, but that shouldn't be a showstopper for it
04:11 <z-man> will do that.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> but wrtlprnft was talking about 0.3 a little while ago, so there probably won't be any serious resistance. :) He's anxious to get all his work into a release.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> I, for one, would like to see what cockpits people dream up. ;)
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's a minor thing that I'd like to see fixed before the cockpit gets its first release. The coordinate system is weird.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> in 4:3 aspect ratio, no problems, right? But when you take a cockpit built for a 4:3 AR and put it on, say, my screen, the top gauges go off-screen because the visible height no longer goes from -1 to 1
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft was fairly stumped by it, and I've no clue really what to do about it. I just noticed the console doesn't suffer this problem. :)
04:14 <z-man> Yes, it's a challenge to both get placement and aspect ratios right
04:15 <z-man> The console, I think, gets squished. /me goes checking
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not so worried about the gauges warping. It'd be nice if they didn't, but I'm concerned about them disappearing entirely. If just the placement were worked out, even if gauge size wasn't affected, that would be nice. :)
04:16 <z-man> I'd introduce coordinates relative to the screen edges.
04:17 <z-man> like, (+x,+y) is relative to the lower left edge
04:17 <z-man> (-x,-y) relative to the upper right edge
04:17 <z-man> but then you can't place something into the center, grr
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that actually makes sense and finishes off the line of thinking I was on. Except I'd make the position tag just have a relative attribute or something like that
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> relative="center" ? :)
04:18 <z-man> yes, an extra attribute for the coordinate system would solve everything.
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> since, realistically, that's how a cockpit is actually built. "This stuff goes on the bottom, this stuff on top, this on the side"
04:18 <z-man> Right
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh. units are always independent/dependent, right?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm backwards.
04:26 <z-man> I don't know. Units are units to me :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> :) x/f(x) or f(x)/x
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> the question is, x is meters, f(x) is newtons, what's, mmmm, definite integral notation for irc?
04:28 <z-man> \int_0^1
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> definite integral f(x)dx units are ____?
04:28 <z-man> LaTeX code :)
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:28 * Lucifer_arma turns on latex plugin
04:28 <z-man> the units of dx are the same as that of x
04:29 <z-man> so if f(x) is newton, x is meters, then f(x)dx is newton*meters = joule
04:29 <z-man> and the integration doesn't change that
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> meters
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> er, I think they want meters/newtons
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.
04:30 * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead
04:30 * Lucifer_arma was the astute student that noticed you multiplied to get the integral's units in the first place, in class.
05:11 <Luke-Jr> z-man: percentage units solve it, mostly... plus math
05:12 <Luke-Jr> thus, width: 100% - 5em ;)
05:12 <Luke-Jr> but supporting right=0 can work as well
05:12 <Luke-Jr> s/width/left
05:16 <Luke-Jr> but that makes centreing hard, again... so maybe a form of Lucifer_arma's origination location (origin_x=left/centre/right, origin_y=top/middle/bottom) is best
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3^6
05:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3^6 = 729
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g tan(pi/4)
05:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: tan(pi / 4) = 1
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> heh. google's smart
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> alright, I'm as ready for this test as I'm going to be.
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> time for bed, I think.
06:14 <z-man> good luck
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07:20 * wrtlprnft disagrees: relative units to the top and bottom don't solve anything
07:20 <wrtlprnft> then the gauges will be separate on some screens and overlap on others...
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08:39 <cusco> lala
08:39 <cusco> walls from the future?
08:39 <cusco> what are those'
08:42 <n54> they're walls but they're not here right now but will soon be so watch out! :D ;P
08:46 * joda_bot moves a wall in front of n54
08:46 * n54 jumps over it :)
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10:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: try origin_x/y + percentage units
10:25 <guru3> i smell like solder now :/
12:01 <n54> you'e been soldering guru3?
12:02 <guru3> yes
12:02 <n54> what are you making?
12:03 <guru3> made a solar panel array
12:03 <n54> wow
12:03 <guru3> had the panels lying around anyway
12:04 <n54> yeah but that's cool
12:04 <guru3> yeah i gues
12:04 <guru3> s
12:04 <guru3> it's not very strong
12:04 <guru3> just may charge our old cell phone
12:05 <n54> :)
12:05 <guru3> but only in bright light
12:06 <n54> yup but I kind of assume stuff like that
12:06 <guru3> heh well
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14:23 <n54> Lucifer_arma: not sure if you've heard of these guys, I just happened to see their page today and I've got no idea how solid they are, anyway http://www.masten-space.com/careers.html
14:35 <n54> Lucifer_arma: this might also be of interest (just in case you haven't seen it already): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12638904/
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16:12 <SD|bbmonday> #notes
16:12 <armabot> SD|bbmonday: I currently have notes waiting for $1, $junkee, $randomnick, chanserv, everyone, junk, Lucifer_arma,, MemoServ, NickServ, philippeq, phillipeq, and [^w].
16:12 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
16:30 <Self_Destructo> z-man: I have no CVS access?
16:32 <z-man-home> I haven't changed anything
16:32 <z-man-home> The server is down atm
16:33 <z-man-home> I can't get on, either.
16:33 <z-man-home> The message looks like an authentication failure, that's right.
16:35 <wrtlprnft> it asks me for my password
16:35 <z-man-home> I get:ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
16:36 <Self_Destructo> I get an authentication failure, like I'm not allowed
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> can we say "got on my last nerve"? :)
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47303#47303
16:38 <z-man-home> Makes me afraid to ask how the calc test went...
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, the last time I walked out of test thinking I kicked its ass, I got an 84. nevertheless, I kicked its ass. :) I'm in a very good mood, actually, contrary to what might appear from that post.
16:41 <z-man-home> Good to hear.
16:42 <z-man-home> On topic, yes, 2020 can be a teeeny bit annoying with his repetitions. I just ignore him then, but I wasn't on the Spoon.
16:42 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: lol
16:43 <n54> hi Lucifer, did you see what I wrote you after you logged in some hours ago?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> To his defense, I was surprised how good it went... We should have just declared the seed rounds the final results and planned another competition in half a year
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: saw it, haven't followed it up. Just got home from the test, the dust is stil settling. :)
16:49 <n54> np just wondered if you missed it :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm not going to complain about 2020 here if he's not here to fight back, but I'll admit it's really tempting. :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and express agreement with y'all, np about that.
16:50 <n54> tournaments always cause stuff like that imo, at least every has so far :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/17*100
16:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 17) * 100 = 88.2352941
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> the hardest part about a tournament is gettng people to show up. :) And whadya know? that's the problem the spoon has had. Other than that, look at raw numbers, realy.
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> The SPOON is the most successful tournament I've seen. Maybe there were more successful tournaments before I got here.
17:02 <Self_Destructo> z-man-home: why put makedist.bat in winlibs? So you don't have to make it for each one?
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> but look, people did self-organize, and then show up and play. The forfeit rate is less than I expected, to be honest.
17:03 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: yeah... for a mostly non-clan tournamnet it was very sucessful
17:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: i think because you need it for both vc and codeblacks
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> if I were going to organize the ladle (which I won't, I'm staying out, now), I'd either require 2020 to take a lead position and pass judgements, lay down the law, etc, or volunteer to do it, and go for a shorter competition.
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe seed based on the American Fortress ladder or something like that.
17:05 <n54> ok well I didn't parttake but it seems very similar to the tournament that was ages ago
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and leave the rest the same, because the first round went very well with very few forfeits, and nobody was suprised to see Formerly Elite pull out.
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and they were most of the forfeits.
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll dump all that on the forums in a bit, still settling in, washing dishes, etc.
17:06 <n54> :)
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: my 2-year old likes your avatar. He burst into laughter when he saw it. :)
17:21 <z-man-home> Self_Destructo: yes, that's basically the reason. The file is the same for both visualc and code::blocks, but i only care for it in the visualc folder. It'll be better for everyone if it gets moved to winlibs
17:21 <Self_Destructo> ok
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17:22 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: Actually, I wouldn't have thought there would be enough players willing to participate in the little experiment of the Spoon
17:22 <z-man-home> And stopping after the seed round would have been a good idea, but we only know that now :)
17:23 <z-man-home> The thing that struck me as a bit odd was a round robin like seed round followed by a KO tournamnent with everyone participating. Didn't get the point of that.
17:24 * z-man-home yawns and rolls into bed
17:24 <Self_Destructo> ok, cya z-man
17:25 <wrtlprnft> night
17:25 <n54> cya z-man
17:38 <wrtlprnft> 2 chars to go!
17:41 <n54> :)
17:42 <wrtlprnft> 1
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17:59 <wrtlprnft> Finished now, I would commit if SF CVS wasn't down...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: the round robin like seed followed by the KO tournament is how big league sports in america is organized. :) 'night.
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18:08 <Gnorty> hey
18:09 <n54> hi
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully this will be the first instance where a clan gets renamed from the outside. :)
18:10 <Gnorty> did I miss some gossip? tellme the clan in question is fe
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I noticed that this font is a little larger than the old font when displayed. So I guess there's some size issue in there.
18:10 <Gnorty> cuz they sooooooooooooooooooooooooo need renaming
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: yeah, the clan is fe. And I've started calling them (from someone else's suggestion, I forgot who) Formerly Elite :)
18:10 <Gnorty> lol
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> maybe we can get everyone else doing the same? Then they've been renamed.
18:10 <Gnorty> but
18:11 <Gnorty> formerly implies that at sometime there was some eliteness
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> there is a concession that they were once elite, I know. I'm willing to concede that for the sake of the renaming. :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: another way to solve the coordinate problem that z-man dreamed up is this:
18:11 <Gnorty> :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> in the position tag, also specify an edge for the origin.
18:12 <Gnorty> luci - are you free for a while? you are prolly my ideal helper
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> not necessarily, but what's up?
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm gonna have to start dinner in a few minutes
18:12 <Gnorty> ^ I think you prolly not free, no worries
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: so, you say like <Position origin="top" x="0.0" y="0.2" /> or something like that
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: You know the left and right coordinates, and you can compute the height, so you don't have to worry about being more specific than that
18:13 <Gnorty> whats up is I have a server geared towards something I think you would approve of, and I am having config problems. likely someone else will pop up who can help and is not busy
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: for origin="center" you'd have to compute the center, obviously
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: tell me more? When I cook dinner, I usually take breaks to come here and check stuff, so my responses might be slow, but I can promise they'll come, anyway
18:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that still doesn't solve the problem with gauges overlapping...
18:21 <wrtlprnft> and what if I want a gauge in the centre that's exactly as high as the screen?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> and yes, the font is a bit bigger... the old font filled only a fraction of the height of the image
18:22 <wrtlprnft> * of the tile
18:23 <wrtlprnft> But if I make out font smaller in fontforge we'll end up with some quirky font that's to small when rendered normally
18:23 <wrtlprnft> * our font
18:24 <Gnorty> wrtl - I havent seen the whole conversation, but for my game stlye, a rubber guage that filled the whole screen would help a *lot* ;)
18:24 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll end up making a FONT_SIZE_FACTOR setting
18:24 <wrtlprnft> easy with the current cockpit system ;)
18:24 <Gnorty> :)
18:25 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=250
18:25 <wrtlprnft> like that?
18:25 <Gnorty> hopefully easier than working out the apparently easy fortress conquest settings
18:25 <wrtlprnft> you could make it horizontal as well
18:26 <Gnorty> I have looked at a lot of those screenshots and tbh I'm loving your work :)
18:27 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:27 <Gnorty> likely the HUD work will reach release sooner than my skill level reaches CVS compilation
18:27 <wrtlprnft> you could make an alphatransparent gauge that *really* fills the entire screen :D
18:28 <wrtlprnft> like, horizontal and vertical
18:28 <Gnorty> ^ this is my intention
18:28 <wrtlprnft> just ask Self_Destructo how to do it, he's an expert now :D
18:28 <Gnorty> Im guessing that opther guages could easily be placed on top - boring stuff like speed,etc in a size/position similar to current
18:29 <wrtlprnft> sure, once we figured out the coordinate system :D
18:31 <Gnorty> wrtl ^ I would dearly love to reboot my skills so that I could actually contribute to arma, there are many things that I would dearly like to play with, but unfortunately ( prolly not appropriate) I can't really allow the time these days
18:31 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:31 <Gnorty> :)
18:31 <wrtlprnft> maybe I can get one of Self_Destructo, joda_bot and z-man to make an alpha release soon :D
18:32 <Gnorty> I am happier now than I used to be,m but I do yearn for days when I could mess with computer projects and not worry about kids/playschool and such
18:32 <wrtlprnft> :) :(
18:33 <wrtlprnft> :):
18:33 <Gnorty> kinda swapping perpetual contentment for habitual brainbashing and occaisional euphoria
18:34 <n54> ?
18:34 <Gnorty> n54 - I used to spend lots of time hacking stuff, now spend more family time.
18:35 <n54> which one was perpetual? :)
18:35 <Gnorty> the family time is perpetual now
18:35 <Gnorty> the hacking was habitual
18:35 <Gnorty> it is a hard habit to break tho
18:35 <n54> ok then it sounds good to me, be happy :)
18:35 <Gnorty> ^ I am :)
18:36 <n54> :)
18:36 <Gnorty> ^^ reading back it was kinda confusing :)
18:37 <n54> no worries :)
18:37 <Gnorty> it got deleted and edited a few times, and didnt really come out as I thought it
18:38 <n54> happens to me too
18:38 <Gnorty> nah, you just think it sounds cool and want to be like me :)
18:39 <n54> lol
18:39 <n54> I'm past being cool I'm 32 :)
18:39 <Gnorty> glad you have a sense of humour - I saw that on screen and thoguht "that could make me look like a complete wanker"
18:40 <n54> hehe
18:40 <Gnorty> Im 37, you still have approx 3 years of cool left
18:40 <n54> nope, sorry, you're wrong :)
18:40 <Gnorty> although you are at a disadvantage, I am still cool enough to say kewl
18:41 <n54> yeah I'm sure your kids think you are cool for saying kewl ;P
18:41 <Gnorty> althoguh maybe saying "kewl" is actually anti-cool. that is something that seems to be hapening more often lately ;)
18:41 <Gnorty> ^^ lol
18:41 <n54> :)
18:42 <Gnorty> I dont normally IRC with the kids, so its not an issue
18:43 <Gnorty> they are OK when I say it, they think I say "cool", but in seceret, I am really saing "kewl"
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I wasn't aware there was a problem with gauges overlapping. :) I thought the problem was gauges near the top on a 4:3 aspect ratio disappearing on widescreen, which is what I have
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, you could honor top and bottom in the y attribute, and left and right in the x attribute, and the problem is solved :)
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="top" y="bottom" /> <Size width="max" height="max" /> <--- something like that
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> er
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="left" y="bottom" /> <Size width="max" height="max" /> <--- something like that
18:57 <Gnorty> OK, so I have this idea for a server, to build skills valuable, but IMO neglected in fortresss, but need help
18:57 <Gnorty> the gameplay currently sucks, but I cant work on gameplay until the config is right
18:58 <Gnorty> anyone willing too look and maybe help?
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ VI do really now the diffenrence between to and too, but my keyboard lieks to maintain an elemant of illiteracy
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ and also it is respnsible for the random letters
19:00 <Gnorty> ^ and for missing letters]
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok, explain exactly what you've done to accomplish your goal, precisely what your goal is, and what's not working :)
19:00 * Lucifer_arma hands Gnorty the "how to ask for support" handbook
19:01 * Gnorty doesn't know quite what to say to that
19:02 <Gnorty> luci - better I styart the server and demonstarte prolly, but that might not be compatible with cooking
19:02 * Gnorty starts server
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, first what skills are you trying to build?
19:04 * Gnorty invites anyone willing to help to "cats and mice" but advises anyone looking for a good game to stay away, cuz it currently sucks
19:04 <Gnorty> luci - sweeper skills
19:05 <Gnorty> who sweeps well? not many
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> so how have you decided to approach buiding those skills? Did you make a map, or did you try just using regular config? You're right, checking the server isn't compatible with cooking :)
19:14 <n54> cya all :)
19:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> also, you've already checked that it's showing on the master server and people cn connect to it, right? So we're definitely looking at the guts of the problem, not peripheral frequent problems?
19:14 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
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19:21 <Gnorty> luci - devised a gameplay basis, wrote a map, but have trouble making the technical aspects work. gameplay is also not as planned, but I need the tech aspects right before I can work on gameplay by adjusting map. I hope you can help - I think you will appreciate what I am trying to do, but you need to really play to see first. brb, need a cig
19:22 <cusco> Gnorty: wake up
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> so is the map loading? and it appears like you expect it to, clients can download it?
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, don't even try to sit here and wait for me. :) If you've got better things to do, just do what I'm doing. Come back every now and then and see if its your turn to talk. ;)
19:26 <Gnorty> the gameis running, showing on master server and random players are joining, having a sucky time cua it is borked and maybe wont come back!
19:27 <Gnorty> ^ is what I am doing :) I am not sat waiting
19:27 <Gnorty> but you really need to play to grasp the concept
19:28 <cusco> Gnorty: you're killing me on your server
19:28 <cusco> when you go trhu the multizone
19:28 <Gnorty> gusdoc :) is not me, I am idle
19:28 <cusco> yes I know!!!
19:28 <Gnorty> tNow I come and kill you :)
19:29 <cusco> here
19:29 <Gnorty> k
19:29 <Gnorty> concept is this
19:29 <cusco> getting the winzone..
19:30 <cusco> in this case we are the mice
19:30 <Gnorty> mice live in skirtings (dont know if that translates to merkin, but essentially behind the walls)
19:30 <cusco> oops now it changed
19:30 <cusco> we are the cat again
19:30 <Gnorty> there is cheese in another room, (winzone) not reachable by skirtings
19:30 <Gnorty> mice need to reach the cheese
19:31 <Gnorty> cats job is to stop them
19:31 <cusco> so they must first clear teh zones?
19:31 <cusco> how can they get trough the multi zone?
19:31 <Gnorty> cats cannot gop behind the walls (holes too small (this is why you die randomly as a cat)
19:31 <cusco> aw
19:31 <Gnorty> the zones are there purely to stop cats going behind the walls
19:32 <Gnorty> ( i wish there was a better way, but alas there is not
19:32 <cusco> so cats cannot touch walls?
19:32 <Gnorty> tghat is the concept
19:32 <Gnorty> but it is faulty
19:32 <cusco> ok let the faulty bit for afterwards
19:32 <cusco> cats cannot zone
19:33 <Gnorty> first, a cat can suicide by collapsing a zone, and then other cats can go through (I guess this is maybe OK, if a cat killed himself maybe by bashing a cat szed hole)
19:33 <Gnorty> no cats should not be able to zone
19:34 <Gnorty> I wish for a one team only killzone, but unfortunately a forress is my best option atm
19:34 <cusco> cat szed zone?
19:34 <cusco> ok so I understand
19:35 <cusco> so the multizone
19:35 <cusco> is suposed to be a killzone
19:35 <cusco> for mice and cats
19:35 <cusco> ?!
19:35 <Gnorty> mice also cannot zone, in that the forts themselves mean nothing to a mouse, only the winzone, which is in theory unavailable toi cats
19:35 <Gnorty> cusco- - all the non green zones are meant to be fatal for cats
19:35 <Gnorty> but inert for micer
19:36 <cusco> ok I understand
19:36 <Gnorty> :)
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so, cats are one team, or individuals with their own fortresses?
19:36 <cusco> how about the multizone
19:36 <Gnorty> the winzone is the mouse goal
19:36 <cusco> why is it multi?
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> is it a sumo in the zone deal, or stand in front of the zone and sweep?
19:36 <Gnorty> there is no cat goal but to kill mice
19:36 <cusco> cats are one team
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> cats own a fortress?
19:36 <Gnorty> the whole idea is for cats to learn to sweep
19:36 <cusco> no
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so the zone is just a winzone, then?
19:37 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: in my view you have either the problem with gauges going off the screen or gauges being squished or gauges being overlapping...
19:37 <Gnorty> mice are for random players to try to get through
19:37 <cusco> there is a main hall with a hole on each wall
19:37 <cusco> and the hole in front has a winzone inside
19:37 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-065-190-155-136.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
19:37 <wrtlprnft> and the top and bottom approach doesn't fit very well since I want to have a WYSIWYG editor for cockpit files one day
19:37 <Gnorty> the big zone is a hack to stop one cat suicideing to leave the way clear for other cats to winzone
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I consider the last two problems less important than the first. gauges being squished can be read. Gauges overlapping can be corrected with careful design.
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> better check out Qt's fancy widget editor before you write off wysiwyg :)
19:38 <cusco> ahh Gnorty I get u
19:38 <Gnorty> :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure you'll be able to accomplish what you want like this.
19:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I'd like to have the editor inside arma
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> for a collapsing zone to kill someone, it has to be owned by them, and that means fortress zone.
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> or you have to hack the server. :)
19:38 <Gnorty> unfortunately even despite the obvious nastyness of using misconfigure fortresses for one way killzones, there are bugs that I dont understand
19:39 <Gnorty> this is what I need help with
19:39 <cusco> like what?
19:39 <cusco> what bugs?
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> ah. "bugs that I don't understand" means a developer doesn't understand the bug. :) Minor nitpick, but if you don't understand it, how can you call it a bug? ;)
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> hang on, everybody stop for a sec
19:39 <Gnorty> like cats canb bypass the zones at will and just winzone, which totally kills gameplay
19:40 <cusco> :| that happens?
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_RATE .3
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_DEFEND_RATE .2
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_DECAY_RATE .1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE 4 # no points for conquering a zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_WIN 0 # the first conqueror does not win
19:40 <Gnorty> yes, i can easily as a cat go right through, ccollapse the zone and not die
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_SURVIVE_WIN 1 # the team with the last active zone wins instead
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_MIN 1 # nothing bad happens to the owners of a
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_RATIO .5 # conquered zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_MAX_PER_TEAM 1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> those are either all of the fortress settings, or the most useful imo
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I'm thinking you'll have to let cats have access to the zone, or else you can't let mice have access to it
19:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe put some walls around the zone to make it harder for anybody to get in, and have the cats start outside the zone.
19:41 <wrtlprnft> just enter FORTRESS at the console :D
19:41 <Gnorty> luci _)i have toatlly bastardised the settings to suit my (unintended needs)_ and Im not sure if the randomness of their workings is my settings, the server software or just too much to ask
19:41 <cusco> Lucifer_arma: have a go at his server and see what he has
19:42 <Lucifer_arma> I'll check it out when I get a chance, I have to go heat up some tortillas and get dinner on the table
19:42 <Gnorty> all forts are owned by cats
19:42 <Gnorty> but fort def is set to -100
19:42 <Gnorty> so a cat goes in, fort collapses instantly
19:42 <Gnorty> then set so nearest cat dies
19:42 <wrtlprnft> that's not fort def
19:42 <Gnorty> but sometimes not
19:42 <wrtlprnft> thats fort conquest
19:42 <Gnorty> no
19:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
19:43 <Gnorty> fort conq is where non-owner is present, no?
19:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:43 <wrtlprnft> sorry
19:43 <Gnorty> :)
19:43 * wrtlprnft feels that he behaves like Luke-Jr :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> brr
19:43 <Gnorty> s'ok, I was also confsed, and I have nothing to do with devel
19:44 <Gnorty> wrtl - erm, not in any way like luke ;)
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I know what the settings do, bubt i didn't quite get what you wanted ;)
19:44 <Gnorty> what I thought
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I thought you wanted a settings like CT fortress chico
19:44 <Gnorty> not at all like fortress, quuitew opposite
19:45 <cusco> lol
19:45 <cusco> very different indeed
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, chico isn't like fortress at all :D
19:45 <Gnorty> all I want is a zone that kills one side, butr is immune to others
19:45 <cusco> wrtlprnft: have a try at his cat & mice server
19:45 <cusco> its on the main hub
19:45 <Gnorty> I wouls even really prefer different maps for different teams, that would be leet
19:46 <wrtlprnft> can you re-explain what you want?
19:46 <Gnorty> ^ is a good game, but atm it is way out of balance, mice totally should own
19:46 <Gnorty> I just want a zone for killing one team only
19:46 <wrtlprnft> so you want zones that only kill one team, right?
19:46 <Gnorty> yes
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that's easy i think
19:47 <cusco> sometimes it kills the whole team instead of killing only the trespasser :|
19:47 <Gnorty> I have that i think, but sometimes they dont die. I think the settings dont really expect -ve values
19:47 <wrtlprnft> but you either have to place all the zones closer to the cats thatn to the mice or do a few map file "hacks "
19:47 <wrtlprnft> is there a server running right now?
19:47 <Gnorty> ^^ the whole team thing wa to discourage chancers. I can fix that easily
19:48 <Gnorty> wwttl yes - cats and mice
19:48 <wrtlprnft> incoming me
19:48 * Gnorty goes to gret wrtl
19:48 <cusco> w8ing
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, nice post licufer
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lucifer*
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh, which post?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4873316&nav=menu73_2
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a fire near here a couple nights ago, turns out the family's house burned to the ground. Nothing in the news about it, though.
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> what I want to know is why the sky is full of smoke right now, and why it seems there's very light ash falling from it
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> somebody with realplayer tell me what this is about: http://www.weather.com/multimedia/player.html?clip=3390&collection=videocoll9&from=wxcenter_video
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
20:01 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: just a guy on his front porch filming the rain... and lighting hit about 100feet from his house and torched a tree.
20:01 <Self_Destructo> he about lost the camera
20:01 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:01 <Self_Destructo> i would have too
20:03 <Self_Destructo> http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:03 <Self_Destructo> a picture of a CMS Ace built...
20:03 <Self_Destructo> that has phpBB hardcoded into it
20:04 <Self_Destructo> very nice and seamless
20:05 <Gnorty> File Upload Manager v1.3 (C) thepeak
20:05 <Gnorty> ERROR: your file type is not allowed (JPG), or you didn't specify a file to upload.
20:05 <Gnorty> >>back
20:06 <Self_Destructo> er
20:06 <Gnorty> jpg is specifed as OK (nice page btw, it works for png, and looks very sweet)
20:07 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: with those settings it actually should work just fine...
20:07 <Gnorty> what I thought, but it doesnt!
20:07 <Self_Destructo> heh, it does the same for me when it comes to mp3's
20:07 <Self_Destructo> I don't get it somtimes...
20:08 <Self_Destructo> one time it will upload, and another time it won't, and sometimes it will never upload it
20:08 <Gnorty> pah, looks sweet, but doesnt really work. have you ever thought of working for microsoft?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what looks sweet?
20:08 <Gnorty> j/k
20:08 <Gnorty> the uploader
20:09 <Gnorty> looks sweet
20:09 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-054-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["on the run"]
20:09 <Self_Destructo> ahh, it's just script i found
20:09 <Gnorty> ah, ok. thought you made it
20:09 <Self_Destructo> on hotscripts.com... something quick :0
20:09 <Self_Destructo> nope... i might build one one of these days
20:09 <Gnorty> can yu send me the script?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> maybe
20:10 <wrtlprnft> might look good, but I still didn't find out how to fetch the uploaded files without popups enabled and without looking at the source code
20:10 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: click on the <dl>
20:10 <Self_Destructo> grr
20:10 <Gnorty> wrtl - if it is free script, i reckon the pop-ups come wh#ith
20:11 <Gnorty> man, I must learn the differnece between <backspace> and #
20:11 <Gnorty> I always had trouble with that
20:12 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: no idea what's wrong, the code looks just fine to me...
20:12 <Gnorty> the upload script code?
20:12 <wrtlprnft> no, the code in arma responsible for killing zone owners
20:13 <Gnorty> ah, I thought so too. so does that count as a bug in the software as I suspect?
20:13 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/fileupload.zip
20:14 <Gnorty> or am I just trying to get something out that isnt really in? should I ask for it as a feature, or maybe try to hack it myslef?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> it should work, but doesn't for some reason
20:15 <Gnorty> wallfrog.co.uk/salepics < gnorty's attempt at file uploader (works, but uglier)
20:15 <Gnorty> wrtl, so bug?
20:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: guess so... better ask someone who actually knows that code
20:15 <Gnorty> t^heh
20:16 <Gnorty> who would tghat be? should I jhust post on the forum?
20:16 <Gnorty> but the forum is just so, erm, un-instant
20:16 <wrtlprnft> forums I'd say
20:16 <Gnorty> :(]
20:16 <wrtlprnft> leave the test server up so people can join and test
20:17 <Gnorty> I hate ping IRO hours
20:17 <Gnorty> you think I should post a zip of the map and the configs?
20:18 <wrtlprnft> just post a link to that webserver dir
20:18 <Self_Destructo> ahha..
20:18 <Self_Destructo> got it working right
20:18 <Gnorty> I cannot really leave it up, it is arm my main box, and lives in my living room
20:18 <Gnorty> refer to earlier posts about family life VS puters ;)
20:19 <Gnorty> wrtl link is also my main PC
20:19 <Gnorty> and dont really want unwanted attention on my hosted server]
20:19 <wrtlprnft> hmm
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20:20 <Gnorty> tI think a zip is maybe better
20:20 <Self_Destructo> Gnorty: http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:20 <wrtlprnft> then post a zip, but expect less people to help you
20:20 <Self_Destructo> the uplaoder there is more updated
20:20 <Gnorty> yes, I know :(
20:20 <Gnorty> maybe I post a zip, and say if anyone sees me playing then I can spark up the server - I should be playing a bit the next few days
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute. any reason you don't want to use the central resource repository?
20:21 * Lucifer_arma kicks himself for asking.
20:22 <Gnorty> luci - me? my map is there al;rady. config kinda needs to be local, although if there is a central server host I dont kinow about, I am all ears
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> no, config is local
20:22 <Gnorty> :)
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> but if you get it to work, I'd be happy to put it on my server in the rotator :)
20:23 <Gnorty> but the secret server host?
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> secret server host?
20:23 <Gnorty> thave you played?
20:23 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he missed something, a likely possibility.
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm eating right now
20:24 <Gnorty> ok, but Id like to host it somewhere when it is working, so if/when I will give you a call
20:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, should I add "support" for those flags in our default font?
20:25 <Gnorty> luci - look back and re-read the post before you kicked yourself
20:25 <wrtlprnft> that would mean making faces for the control characters in lower upper ASCII
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I missed something, heh
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on the server right now
20:26 <Gnorty> s/before/after
20:26 <Gnorty> :)
21:00 <Gnorty> thanks for the input luci
21:00 <Gnorty> tand wrtl
21:01 <Gnorty> ^ random t
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> the news in this town sucks. Ash is falling from the sky and nobody's bothered to say anything about it.
21:13 <Gnorty> luci?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you want to try the newest font, I uploaded it: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Armagetronad.ttf
21:14 <Gnorty> ash from the sky??
21:14 <wrtlprnft> and http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armagetronad.sfd
21:14 * wrtlprnft hopes that's overexaggerated
21:14 <wrtlprnft> or however you spell that
21:15 * Gnorty too, but i need to sleep so my concern is suspended herewith. laterz
21:15 <wrtlprnft> night
21:15 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> stupid SF CVS...
21:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i aggree
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> not a lot of ash, but there was definitely ash from the sky
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> last time ash fell from teh sky like that, it turned out there was a huge chemical fire in a Mexican factory on the Rio Grande
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> time before that, that I remember, it was a volcanic eruption in Mexico.
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> Ash from both of those events dumped all over texas for several days.
21:30 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:30 <wrtlprnft> we once had sahara sand in the sky above munich...
21:30 <wrtlprnft> that looked extremely cool. some kind of storm blew it over to us
21:31 <wrtlprnft> luckily most of it just blew by and didn't fall down
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but actually... a day on the "beach" would have been fun, too :D
21:43 <Self_Destructo> cya'll tommorrow
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06:35 <Gnorty> hey n55
06:35 <Gnorty> ^54
06:36 <n54> hi :)
06:37 <n54> doing ok?
06:43 <Gnorty> yea, just trying to sort out some server problems
06:43 <Gnorty> head/brick wall time tho
06:44 <Gnorty> think i am probably trying to squeeze too much out of a fortress zone
06:44 <n54> :)
06:44 <n54> yeah you might be beyond the edge of development
06:49 <Gnorty> rdges suck :(
06:49 <Gnorty> ^ edges
06:51 <n54> might be easier to do what you want to don when they've figured more stuff out
06:54 <Gnorty> but I want it NOW!!!
06:54 <Gnorty> maybe I will see if I can break the code by tweaking myself
06:55 <Gnorty> a long time since i did c++ tho
06:55 <n54> no idea :)
06:56 <Gnorty> I am thinking I can maybe cut/paste some of the fort code and killzone code together and make something
06:57 <Gnorty> 99% chance it will break totally, but who knows?
06:57 <n54> :)
07:00 <Gnorty> z-man says on the forum that most of the stuff I want is in phillipes spec, so not long to wait hopefully
07:00 <n54> ah ok
07:11 <Gnorty> I now know why the forts dont always kill :)
07:12 <n54> ok :)
07:19 <wrtlprnft> armabot:
07:19 <wrtlprnft> oops
07:19 <n54> yeah
07:20 <n54> any idea why it's so messed up?
07:20 <wrtlprnft> just wanted to see if it's there, accidently pressed enter
07:20 <wrtlprnft> what's messed up?
07:20 <n54> oh
07:20 <n54> well the chatlog...
07:20 <wrtlprnft> I guess Lucifer_arma has pwer problems
07:20 <wrtlprnft> and the chatlog gets emptied every time it restarts
07:21 <n54> not correctly it seems, something breaks
07:23 <n54> at least I can't figure it out :)
07:48 <wrtlprnft> emerge gun && gun --shoot --target 'SF CVS'
07:57 <z-man> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "gun".
08:00 <z-man> The best I could find (the only thing) would be "sword"
08:02 <z-man> Hmm, there would also be "horde", but maybe that's abit to cruel
08:03 * z-man stops wasting time
08:24 <wrtlprnft> what about GUNzip?
08:26 <wrtlprnft> sword� Librarz for bible reading software... omg
08:26 <wrtlprnft> s/�/:-
08:27 <wrtlprnft> s/z/y
08:30 <z-man> eek, I didn't look what it was actually doing.
08:32 <wrtlprnft> interestinglz emerge -s koran doesn't findf anything...
08:32 * wrtlprnft is confused by this keyboard
08:33 <z-man> I think I saw something for that on freshmeat
08:35 <z-man> http://sourceforge.net/projects/zekr
08:35 <z-man> Provided quran == koran
08:36 <wrtlprnft> http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=/gQPUD&search=quran <-- looks like it
08:39 <n54> what are you doing? messing about? :)
08:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:48 <z-man> ceater, gunzip isn't emergeable :)
08:48 <z-man> cheater
08:48 <z-man> there's softgun, though
08:49 <z-man> or xplane & xbomb
08:50 <z-man> ok, this should by now have triggered Homeland Security
08:54 <n54> doubt it :)
08:54 <n54> (wrong agency)
08:55 <z-man> Well, parts of the listeners are in the US, right?
08:55 <n54> depends what you mean
08:55 <n54> but in any case it has little to do with DHS
08:56 <z-man> aww, never mind. I'm not in nitpicking mood.
08:56 <n54> it's not nitpicking :)
08:56 <z-man> That's what nitpickers always say :)
08:56 * z-man tries to divert the discussion
08:57 <n54> heh I don't care just go ahead and call it DHS if you please, I just pointed out that it's totally wrong that's all :)
09:00 <n54> jus to give you some real nitpicking: what we just had wasn't a discussion! ;D j/k :)
10:08 <guru3> n54: just had physics paper 1 & 2
10:09 <Luke-Jr> I just *love* when Gentoo upgrades MySQL to an incompatible version
10:09 <Luke-Jr> and when starting that new version with an old database corrupts it
10:09 <n54> hope it went well guru3 :)
10:10 * n54 remembers Luke being in love with libraries a few days ago :)
10:10 <guru3> not too bad n54
10:10 <n54> good :)
10:10 <guru3> downside is the option paper tomorrow
10:10 <guru3> is gonna suck
10:11 <guru3> cause i don't know that stuff at all
10:12 <Luke-Jr> n54: who said anything about libraries?
10:12 * Luke-Jr pokes a needle into the dumb windozeluser >:|
10:13 <n54> yeah well wait poking until I'm talking from my windows machine, that way it will be slightly less pointless ;)
10:15 <Gnorty> n54 - what OS you using atm?
10:15 <n54> Knoppix atm
10:15 <Gnorty> k
10:27 -!- cusco [i=cusco@wrong.domain.name] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:33 <Luke-Jr> woohoo recovered!
10:34 <Luke-Jr> for reference, I had to start mysql with users disabled (= read-write for anyone w/o passwords) and upgrade the db via the script
10:37 <Luke-Jr> now on to my next potentially dangerous upgrade
10:40 <Luke-Jr> courier-imap and postfix
11:48 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA7E5.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
12:12 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
12:17 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:12 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
13:12 <philippeqc> hi
13:13 <n54> hi :)
13:34 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA7E5.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
13:37 <philippeqc> hi n54
13:39 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:23 <Gnorty> hi all
14:36 <philippeqc> hi gnorty
14:36 <philippeqc> just saw your pm
14:36 <philippeqc> sorry for the delay
14:42 <philippeqc> Good night!
14:42 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
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15:41 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:22 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
16:22 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
16:22 <Self_Destructo> CVS up today?
16:26 <Self_Destructo> evidently not
16:31 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:35 <n54> hi SD
16:41 <Self_Destructo> n54: hi
17:04 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:06 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA7E5.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
17:10 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-248-234-102.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
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17:19 <wrtlprnft> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#1145561022
17:19 * wrtlprnft wonders what's "partial" about this outage
17:21 <n54> means some projects are fine while others arent?
17:21 <n54> as to cvs access I mean
17:21 <n54> i.e. they're working on it :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> might be, but then they could maybe post some information about this?
17:22 <n54> isn't that what they've done?
17:22 <wrtlprnft> except the post form may 5 where they said everything was OK
17:22 <wrtlprnft> well, that there's an outage I noticed myself
17:22 <n54> hmm where does it say that?
17:23 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-248-234-102.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
17:23 <wrtlprnft> directly under "Rescent updates"
17:23 <n54> that's not how i read it
17:24 <wrtlprnft> anyways... let's have a look at z-man's vserver meanwhile :D
17:25 <n54> :)
17:25 <n54> hi mom :)
17:25 <wrtlprnft> if the forums are responsive enough to let me get to the username/password :D
17:26 <wrtlprnft> looks like they aren't :S
17:26 <n54> oh mom was leaving not coming :S
17:26 <n54> :|
17:26 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:26 <n54> :)
17:26 <wrtlprnft> use tab completion and you'll notice :D
17:27 <n54> yeah true but sometimes tab names are just too "blocky" if you get what I mean
17:27 <joda_bot> gn8
17:27 <n54> but I always use it for yours ;)
17:27 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-041-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:27 <n54> cya joda
17:28 <wrtlprnft> heh. If I use tab completion on some of the DS or SP guys out there they sometimes get annoyed :D
17:28 <n54> :)
17:28 <wrtlprnft> seems like they don't like their own tags...
17:29 <n54> dunno
17:29 <wrtlprnft> n54: can you reach the forums?
17:29 <n54> arma? I'll try
17:30 <n54> yup
17:30 <wrtlprnft> weird
17:30 <n54> armagetron forum at tanks that is, or were yout hinking of something at sf+
17:30 <n54> thinking* sf?*
17:30 <wrtlprnft> I can't... wiki and google work fine, and irc does evidently
17:30 <wrtlprnft> no, i mean forums.armagetronad.net
17:31 <n54> yup they're ok, fast & clean for me
17:31 <n54> but then again I'm practically next door :D
17:31 <wrtlprnft> weird
17:32 <n54> what were you looking for? if it's something you know is there I could look for you
17:32 <wrtlprnft> well, you'd need to be in the dev group :S
17:32 <wrtlprnft> but thanks for offering :)
17:33 <n54> I might actually be...
17:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, can you see the "development stuff only" forum?
17:33 <n54> or is that just the public part?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> *development stAff lol
17:34 <n54> only Graphical Enhancements, Beta Testing, Beta Testers Only
17:34 <wrtlprnft> npe
17:34 <wrtlprnft> *nope
17:34 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:34 <n54> ok :)
17:35 <wrtlprnft> aaah, now it works
17:35 <n54> I see some stuff about vServer though
17:35 <n54> ok
17:36 <wrtlprnft> no, but he has given the devs an ssh account
17:36 <n54> ah ok
17:36 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 <wrtlprnft> huh?
17:39 <wrtlprnft> this server has a spamd running... hope it doesn't do what i think it does
17:40 <n54> daemonized version of spamassassin
17:41 <wrtlprnft> jeh just found that out
17:41 <n54> :)
17:41 <wrtlprnft> spamd sounds more like it sends spam
17:41 <n54> yeah
18:29 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
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19:33 <n54> hiya
19:46 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
19:46 <ghableska> Hi.
19:47 <wrtlprnft> grr
19:47 <ghableska> hullo wrtl
19:47 <wrtlprnft> autobanned from cvs fortress for spamming...
19:47 <ghableska> aww
19:47 <ghableska> i've had that happen
19:47 <ghableska> not to mention the "Vanhayes" thing
19:47 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:48 <n54> hi
19:48 <ghableska> hi
19:48 <wrtlprnft> 90% of ghableska's lines are just "hi" or "Hi." :D
19:49 <ghableska> hi :P
19:49 <n54> :)
19:49 <ghableska> that's because no one says anything else...
19:49 <ghableska> and the conversation just ends there
19:49 <wrtlprnft> well, it depends on when you join
19:49 <wrtlprnft> most people here are kinda online, but not really
19:49 <n54> it's been kind of silent the past days imo
19:49 <ghableska> true...
19:49 <wrtlprnft> but if you bring up a topic they'll discuss it
19:49 <ghableska> it's always silent when I join
19:50 <n54> yeah I'm usually not here even if I am
19:50 <ghableska> and if it isn't, it's all programming-related stuff
19:50 <wrtlprnft> just stay longer than 5 minutes :D
19:50 <n54> always at this time ghableska?
19:50 <ghableska> er, no
19:50 <ghableska> i haven't joined for a while...
19:50 <ghableska> eugh sun in my eyes
19:50 <ghableska> #insult sun
19:50 <n54> :)
19:50 <ghableska> blah
19:50 <ghableska> not working yet?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> emerge sword && sword --slice "SF CVS"
19:51 <ghableska> o_0
19:51 <n54> what/who?
19:51 <ghableska> it?
19:51 <n54> ah that
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:51 <ghableska> *feels left out*
19:51 <ghableska> :(
19:51 <wrtlprnft> at least sword actually exists
19:52 * n54 takes away that feeling from ghableska "ha ha ha try to get it back!"
19:52 <wrtlprnft> the CVS server we use is down at the moment, kinda preventing any development :D
19:52 * ghableska runs after n54
19:52 <ghableska> fun...
19:52 <n54> *yikes!* runs even faster
19:52 * wrtlprnft sees if he can join CVS fortress again
19:53 * ghableska gets out of breath and falls over
19:53 <n54> hmm but you know even if you catch me you can't get that feeling back
19:53 <wrtlprnft> or no, it's kinda empty... boring
19:53 <ghableska> so...
19:53 * ghableska tries to get the conversation moving
19:54 <wrtlprnft> probably me and you left after he did
19:54 <n54> who?
19:54 <n54> ghableska?
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> yay. 94 on my calculus test :)
19:54 <ghableska> :)
19:54 <n54> congratulations :)
19:54 <wrtlprnft> lol. We had someone named me and someone named you on CVS fortress, and i renamed myself to he
19:54 <wrtlprnft> grats :)
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> finished my theatre class today with an A. :)
19:54 <n54> so now you can play maths?
19:55 <n54> or act maths I mean
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> heh. we used to do variations of Your_mom all the time.
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I can dramatize calculus. :)
19:55 <n54> where are you from ghableska?
19:55 <n54> :)
19:55 <ghableska> US
19:55 <ghableska> you?
19:55 <n54> NO
19:55 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:55 <armabot> 4
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it would be helpful if I quit mixing up product and power. f(x) = sin(x)cos(x)
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> "Use the power rule"
19:56 <n54> i.e. norway
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> "er, Product Rule"
19:56 <ghableska> ah,
19:56 <ghableska> cold?\
19:56 <ghableska> *?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> who can actually see that flag?
19:56 <n54> no, right now it's getting a bit too hot for me
19:56 <ghableska> I saw squares and a 4.
19:56 <wrtlprnft> here it's nice and warm
19:56 <ghableska> it's warm here too....I hate it
19:56 * wrtlprnft has a minor sunburn
19:56 <ghableska> :P
19:56 <wrtlprnft> i like it :D
19:56 * n54 didn't see no flag
19:57 <wrtlprnft> n54: get irssi :D
19:57 <ghableska> client?
19:57 <n54> I'm getting fat & unfit and I've been at it for a few years now so....
19:58 <wrtlprnft> n54: wou're running openbsd?
19:58 * n54 ponders renaming himself to Frozen Budda-popsickle
19:58 <wrtlprnft> or just sniffing into #openbsd?
19:58 <n54> not right at the moment wrtlprnft but as soon as possible (which is usually quite a long when it comes to me)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:59 <wrtlprnft> why not wait for GNU HURD then? It'll be ready next year
19:59 <n54> I was starting with 3.8 before my main machine broke down and it's too unpractical for me to do much about as things are now
19:59 <n54> sure?
19:59 <wrtlprnft> absolutely ;)
19:59 <n54> isn't that like five years to fusion power?
20:00 <wrtlprnft> hmm, no, that's unrealistic :D
20:00 <n54> haha :D
20:00 <wrtlprnft> #f
20:00 <armabot> Random Fortune: Q: What do you say to a New Yorker with a job? || A: Big Mac, fries and a Coke, please! || h
20:00 <n54> I thought HURD was supposed to come free with Duke Nukem Forever
20:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:01 <n54> :)
20:01 * wrtlprnft goes to see what happens if wrtlprnft switched this terminal to the arma font
20:02 <n54> but anyway yeah I might try HURD if I have the means & time & energy
20:03 <wrtlprnft> if i figure out how to do that, that is
20:03 * n54 prods ghableska "see? we're all crazy here so no worries" :)
20:03 * ghableska sees
20:03 <wrtlprnft> looks like my system doesn't think this is a fixed width font
20:04 * ghableska is busy hating his keyboard
20:04 <ghableska> gah
20:04 <n54> careful, it might trip your fingers
20:05 <ghableska> no...it's freezing every couple of seconds
20:05 <ghableska> along with the mouse
20:05 <n54> gah
20:05 <ghableska> with new batteries and everything
20:05 <ghableska> so I took out my old wired keyboard
20:05 <n54> makes sense
20:06 <ghableska> wrtl, has Vanhayes or Psyko contacted you about organizing a match?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> nope, not yet
20:06 <ghableska> ok, because they seem to be waiting for you to tell them
20:06 <ghableska> hmm
20:06 <wrtlprnft> well, our times are posted on the wiki
20:07 <wrtlprnft> give us a few days so we can get the team back together
20:07 <ghableska> ok
20:07 <ghableska> it's been quiet
20:07 <ghableska> in with a bang and out with a whimper...
20:07 <n54> mm
20:07 <wrtlprnft> emerge nuke && nuke --target 'SF CVS'
20:08 <ghableska> nukes heading towards the cvs server?
20:08 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:08 <ghableska> yay!
20:08 * ghableska feels smart
20:08 <ghableska> XD
20:08 <n54> that's sure to solve all our problems with getting cvs access at that server ;P
20:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:09 <ghableska> wow wrtl, the mbc page is so.......neat
20:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:09 <n54> germans & their ordnung! ;D
20:09 <ghableska> I suppose that's why we're "anarchic"
20:09 <n54> j/k!
20:09 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:10 <wrtlprnft> It's mostly because I'm the only one editing it... the AW page is more like a growing chaos
20:10 <n54> I haven't seen that page, link?
20:10 <n54> the one wrtlprnft edits I mean
20:10 <wrtlprnft> uh
20:11 <ghableska> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_%28Tronic_SPOON%29
20:11 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_(Tronic_SPOON)
20:11 <ghableska> :P
20:11 <wrtlprnft> ghab was faster :D
20:11 <ghableska> compared to....... this http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Anarchic_wanderers
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <n54> nice pic :)
20:12 <ghableska> hehe
20:12 <ghableska> dunno who found it
20:13 * ghableska has found a new obsession
20:13 <n54> do you dare tell us?
20:13 <ghableska> hmm
20:13 <ghableska> shall I.....? :P
20:14 <ghableska> it is *gasp*
20:14 <ghableska> terragen
20:14 <n54> that sounds familiar
20:14 * n54 can't remember what it was
20:15 <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerymain.php <------ New version coming out...
20:15 <n54> aaah yes
20:15 <ghableska> :)
20:15 <n54> can be used with quake and hl & stuff right?
20:16 <ghableska> dunno
20:16 <n54> perhaps it was an older versionor something but the name does ring a bell
20:16 <ghableska> can you export terrains?
20:16 <ghableska> because some of those look poly-heavy
20:16 <n54> I think only for the "sky-cube" in those games
20:17 <ghableska> ah
20:17 <ghableska> I suppose
20:17 * ghableska drools
20:17 <ghableska> http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD413.jpg
20:18 <n54> wow
20:18 <ghableska> i know
20:18 <ghableska> this was the best I could do with the current version
20:18 <ghableska> http://www.deviantart.com/view/32773397/
20:19 <n54> well that's not bad?
20:19 <ghableska> i guess...
20:20 <n54> brb
20:20 <ghableska> so...
20:21 <ghableska> /me pokes wrtl
20:21 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:22 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
20:24 * wrtlprnft was away
20:24 <ghableska> wb
20:24 <wrtlprnft> i was even marked as away ;)
20:24 <n54> I hate headaches
20:24 <ghableska> aww
20:25 <wrtlprnft> we won't ever get a good #chatlog if armabot comes and goes all the time...
20:26 <n54> hmm but does it still leave out the names?
20:26 <n54> #chatlog
20:26 <wrtlprnft> chatlog doesn but last --nolimit doesn't...
20:26 <wrtlprnft> #help chatlog
20:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (chatlog <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron $* --nolimit]".
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell
20:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: No closing quotation
20:27 <n54> # echo [$who]
20:27 <armabot> [n54]
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:27 <wrtlprnft> weird...
20:27 <n54> #chatlog
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #list alias
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, (1 more message)
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #more
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:28 <n54> try without $* at all?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:28 <n54> #chatlog
20:28 <wrtlprnft> nno
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Commands may not be the result of nesting.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:29 <armabot> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]", nno, #chatlog, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", try without $* at all?, #more, #list alias, #chatlog, weird..., #chatlog, #alias add (1 more message)
20:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:29:52] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", [20:29:46] <wrtlprnft> hmm, [20:29:38] <wrtlprnft> #chatlog, [20:29:35] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", [20:29:28] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", [20:29:11] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron (3 more messages)
20:29 <wrtlprnft> thats weird
20:29 <n54> ooh
20:29 <wrtlprnft> seems like it doesn't like nesting
20:30 <n54> yeah
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog2 "last --in #armagetron --nolimit"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [chatlog2]"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:30 <armabot> #alias add chatlog "echo [chatlog2]", #alias add chatlog2 "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", yeah, seems like it doesn't like nesting, ooh, thats weird, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", hmm, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] (2 more messages)
20:30 <wrtlprnft> gah
20:30 <n54> :S
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias remove chatlog2
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> can't even trick it...
20:30 <n54> #chatlog
20:31 <wrtlprnft> let's just make that simpler ;)
20:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, I cant have cronjobs? gah
20:32 <n54> #echo tell [$who] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <armabot> tell [n54] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <n54> #tell [$who] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <armabot> n54: Error: I haven't seen [$who], I'll let you do the telling.
20:33 <n54> #[tell [$who]] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:33 <n54> # [tell [$who]] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:33 <n54> meh
20:34 * n54 wants a new brain for christmas
20:35 <ghableska> lol
20:35 <n54> :)
20:35 <ghableska> that was the first thing I was able to understand for the past couple of minutes...
20:35 <ghableska> ;)
20:35 <n54> hehe np
20:36 <n54> we're just messing with the bot trying to make it behave but...
20:36 <ghableska> it's not?
20:36 <n54> it's not :)
20:36 <ghableska> what were you trying to get it to do?
20:36 <n54> to make it list what people says (like past conversation) but to do it privately
20:36 <ghableska> ah
20:37 <n54> and with the names of whoever speaks
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add realchatlogs "echo scp irclogs/FreeNode/\#armagetron.log wrtlprnft.ath.cx:/www2/armalogs.txt"
20:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:37 <n54> and we only manage one or the other not both at the same time :S
20:37 <ghableska> lol
20:37 <wrtlprnft> err, no
20:37 <wrtlprnft> unintended
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add realchatlogs "echo http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt"
20:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #realchatlogs
20:37 <armabot> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt
20:38 <ghableska> *click*
20:38 <n54> *click* too
20:38 <wrtlprnft> waaay easier
20:38 <ghableska> ooh, interesting
20:38 <wrtlprnft> it's a cronjob every 5 minutes
20:38 <wrtlprnft> at least i hope so
20:38 <n54> for how long back will it look?
20:39 <wrtlprnft> well, currently there's no limit
20:39 <wrtlprnft> it's from the point in time where i switched to irssi
20:39 <n54> yikles :)
20:39 <wrtlprnft> but I'll probably have to write a script around it once it gets too large
20:40 <n54> yup
20:41 <wrtlprnft> yay it just updated all by itself
20:41 <ghableska> *pats*
20:41 <n54> :)
20:41 <wrtlprnft> now you all have to smile and feel like you're being watched :D
20:41 <n54> lol
20:41 <ghableska> Hehe.
20:41 <ghableska> how often does it update?
20:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with 5
20:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:38:45] <wrtlprnft> it's a cronjob every 5 minutes
20:42 <ghableska> ok
20:42 <n54> oh
20:42 <n54> I missed that too
20:42 <ghableska> *looks up cronjob*
20:43 <wrtlprnft> I might actually move my irc client to my server at home and use it over ssh
20:43 <n54> just liek timer really, for automating doing stuff
20:43 <ghableska> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron
20:43 <ghableska> ;)
20:43 <n54> like a timer*
20:43 <n54> :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> a little hardlink and it would update instantaneously
20:44 <wrtlprnft> and it would probably more reliable than this machine
20:44 <wrtlprnft> insert a "be" anywhere you like in my previous sentence
20:44 <ghableska> :)
20:44 <n54> :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> update in 15 seconds
20:44 <n54> boom?
20:44 <ghableska> and counting...
20:44 <wrtlprnft> 10
20:44 <ghableska> :P
20:44 <wrtlprnft> 5
20:45 <n54> big boom!
20:45 <ghableska> *watches mushroom cloud rise into the air*
20:45 <n54> lol
20:45 <wrtlprnft> hehe
20:45 <wrtlprnft> n54: your line got the last :D
20:45 <ghableska> wrtl, what did you do this time?? :P
20:45 <n54> hehe
20:45 <wrtlprnft> i just watched the clock of my computer
20:46 <n54> ?
20:46 <wrtlprnft> for the countdown ;)
20:46 <n54> oh... I just typed :)
20:47 <ghableska> so..
20:48 <n54> what is going on?
20:48 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: did you see the new font screenshots?
20:48 <ghableska> yes
20:48 <ghableska> they're nice :D
20:49 <wrtlprnft> see the new arma font as well?
20:49 <ghableska> ?
20:49 <wrtlprnft> (lucifer's screenshots)
20:49 <n54> I got to go, my head is killing me and I can't take more pills :( cya :)
20:49 <ghableska> bye, hope you get better
20:49 <wrtlprnft> night
20:49 <n54> thanks :)
20:49 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
20:50 <ghableska> wrtl, what were you talking about?
20:50 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47246#47246
20:50 <ghableska> mm
20:50 <ghableska> nice
20:50 <ghableska> less blocky
20:51 <wrtlprnft> they're a bit out of date, i adjusted the spacing a bit and corrected some mistakes
20:51 <ghableska> still look good though :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:52 <ghableska> #praise wrtl
20:52 * armabot gives wrtl a cookie
20:52 <ghableska> ;)
20:52 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:53 <ghableska> how are you?
20:53 <wrtlprnft> those terragen screenshots look nice :D
20:53 <wrtlprnft> good
20:53 <ghableska> I know
20:53 <ghableska> can't wait for the new one to come out
20:54 <wrtlprnft> you really almost couldn't tell thoese mountain pictures from real- world photos
20:54 <ghableska> yeah
20:54 <ghableska> and you can get landscape data to make terrains...
20:54 <ghableska> i love the volumetric clouds :D
20:54 <wrtlprnft> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=19&ind=7&group=0
20:55 <wrtlprnft> that one looks kinda weird
20:55 <wrtlprnft> the shadows are too long for that time of the day
20:55 <ghableska> yeah, but the clouds are amazing
20:55 <ghableska> and look at this
20:55 <ghableska> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Nature.jpg
20:55 <wrtlprnft> wow
20:56 <wrtlprnft> now you'd need to be able to walk through that in realtime :D
20:56 <ghableska> mm
20:56 <wrtlprnft> but i guess those images are worth hours of rendering...
20:56 <ghableska> yeah, but with great results :D
20:56 <ghableska> http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD413.jpg poly-crazy
20:57 <wrtlprnft> wow.
20:57 <wrtlprnft> who still wants to go outside and take real photos? ;)
20:57 <ghableska> hehe
20:57 <ghableska> oh wow
20:57 <ghableska> http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=4
20:57 <ghableska> 13.5 billion polygons...
20:58 <ghableska> :-O
20:58 <wrtlprnft> you like clouds, do you?
20:58 <ghableska> eh, no, not really
20:58 <ghableska> but you have to admire how well it can create them
20:58 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Big_sky.jpg
20:59 * ghableska drools
20:59 <ghableska> photorealistic, this one: http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=1
20:59 <wrtlprnft> looks like those photos taken from planes :D
21:00 <ghableska> yeah...
21:01 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Eroded_strata.jpg
21:01 <ghableska> :D
21:01 <ghableska> the ocean looks quite nice...
21:01 <ghableska> http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=2
21:02 <ghableska> #praise Terragen
21:02 * armabot gives Terragen a cookie
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #armamot do you have to many cookies?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> *too
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #armabot do you have too many cookies?
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Maybe...
21:03 <ghableska> lol
21:03 <ghableska> #armabot can I have one?
21:03 <armabot> ghableska: It is so.
21:03 <ghableska> o_0
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #eliza ghableska needs help :D
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say ghableska needs help d?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #eliza i just say that to test you
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Is it because to test me that you came to me?
21:04 <ghableska> heheh
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #eliza do you know any grammar?
21:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What do you think?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #eliza i think you don't
21:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say you think me don 't?
21:04 <ghableska> Ew.
21:04 <wrtlprnft> screw that
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #f
21:04 <armabot> Random Fortune: You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.
21:04 <ghableska> #f
21:04 <armabot> Random Fortune: Because the wine remembers.
21:05 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Rocky_planet.jpg WOW
21:07 <ghableska> psh
21:07 <ghableska> that one isn't that good
21:07 <ghableska> :P
21:07 <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=1&ind=17&group=1
21:08 <ghableska> still gotta love those clouds ;)
21:10 * ghableska pokes wrtl
21:40 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
21:45 <ghableska> hey spidey
21:46 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:48 <wrtlprnft> spider: looks like aw want to get our match going... any times you're unavailable in the next week?
21:48 <spider> i'm always here
21:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
21:49 <spider> result of not having a fuckin life
21:49 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:49 <spider> i just fixed my slide problem
21:49 <wrtlprnft> how?
21:49 <spider> the copy of xp i had was stripped
21:49 <spider> 700mb install
21:49 <wrtlprnft> pff
21:49 <spider> missing alot of stuff
21:50 <spider> i got a legit copy off a friend
21:50 <spider> now tron runs smoothly
21:50 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:50 <wrtlprnft> even newer versions?
21:50 <spider> yea
21:50 <wrtlprnft> then move your ass and upgrade... That binary hacking sucks
21:51 <wrtlprnft> won't work with future alphas anyways
21:51 <spider> duuude
21:51 <spider> lik
21:51 <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg
21:51 <spider> :>
21:51 <spider> i sexi
21:51 <spider> ;p
21:51 <wrtlprnft> it won't be the server blocking the client but the client refusing to connect to the server :D
21:52 <spider> hmm?
21:52 <spider> ways around everything
21:52 <spider> specially sense it's open source
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, if you're gonna recompile arma you could as well fix your imaginary problem
21:52 <spider> imaginary problem?
21:53 <wrtlprnft> well, there was no code change to justify it
21:53 <spider> doesn't explain why i had the problem
21:53 <spider> i don't think i would make something up just to do it
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the rc4 code is the final code except that there was that security fix
21:54 <spider> well
21:54 <spider> strange
21:54 <spider> i'm not the only one that had that problem
21:54 <spider> still imaginary?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> probably it was a problem with the build, maybe z-man made the final build differently from the rc4
21:57 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.143.105] has joined #armagetron
22:04 <spider> didn't answer the question wrtl...if it's imaginary,how is it other people's complained to?
22:05 <wrtlprnft> dunno. probably imaginary is the wrong word, but it certainly had to do with your system
22:06 <spider> well,solidus posted the same thing
22:06 <spider> he's on a mac
22:06 <spider> damien
22:06 <spider> wizz
22:06 <spider> you read the thread
22:07 <wrtlprnft> i did, but there was no real description there
22:07 <wrtlprnft> and it was on the wrong forums anyways. If you want the problem fixed post on the official forums with a recording and someone will try to help you
22:08 <spider> i don't care if it gets fixed or not,i'm just pissed right now,i'll minimize before i say soemthing else
22:14 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090BEF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
Log from 2006-05-10:
--- Day changed Wed May 10 2006
00:05 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
00:09 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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00:28 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8A46.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
00:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper
03:15 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:18 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #Armagetron
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05:19 <z-man> #chatlog spider
05:20 <z-man> #last spider http
05:20 <armabot> z-man: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
05:20 <z-man> #more
05:20 <armabot> z-man: --nolimit returns all the messages that can be found. By default, the channel this command is given in is searched.
05:21 <z-man> Eh, don't get it. What link to a bug describing thread di spider give?
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [05:20:42] <z-man> #last spider http
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http --nolimit
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [05:21:37] <z-man> #last --with http, [05:20:42] <z-man> #last spider http, [01:33:03] <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper, [21:51:36] <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg, [21:08:11] <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=1&ind=17&group=1, [21:05:30] <wrtlprnft> (3 more messages)
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http --from spider --nolimit
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [21:51:36] <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg
05:24 <z-man> #last --with http --from spidey --nolimit
05:24 <armabot> z-man: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 645 messages.
05:24 <z-man> that's a short historty, armabot.
05:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-041-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
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07:19 <wrtlprnft> z-man: it's a thread inside the mbc forums, I'll pick it out
07:40 <wrtlprnft> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6434
07:41 <wrtlprnft> but if you don't have an account, don't bother. those all (except spidey's) seem to be general complaints about 0.2.8.0's look and rubber differences, and we all know that...
07:41 <wrtlprnft> noone there is talking about rc4 <=> final
07:51 <wrtlprnft> z-man: if you want a ling history: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt armabot's history gets reset every time it gets disconnected. And spidey didn't even post and URI since he, as he said, has no interest in getting the problem fixed
07:51 <wrtlprnft> *long
07:55 <z-man> thanks wrtl, no, I won't bother getting an account.
07:56 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:56 <wrtlprnft> maybe spider_ meant another thread, but i couldn't find one
07:57 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
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11:18 <guru3> was it said here?
11:18 <guru3> i've got complete chat logs
11:18 <guru3> for like... ever
11:18 <guru3> what am i looking for?
11:20 <n54> ?
11:21 <guru3> 12:00:06 < z-man> #last --with http --from spidey --nolimit
11:21 <guru3> z-man was looking for something
11:22 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50872173.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:23 <n54> oh.... bug hunt?
11:49 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50872173.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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13:50 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:03 <wrtlprnft> guru3: z-man was looking for the thread spider_ mentioned but never cared to link to
15:11 <wrtlprnft> -ipconnect.de] has joined
15:19 <guru3> okay
15:26 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
15:26 <Gnorty> ping
15:35 <guru3> pong
15:35 <guru3> great game
15:47 <Gnorty> kinda slow, and tbh the gameplay could use some work, but if you think it's fun...
15:47 <Gnorty> ping
15:47 <Gnorty> I dont think it will take off
15:48 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
15:48 <armabot> pong
15:48 <Gnorty> hey! this is a 2 player game :|
15:50 <joda_bo1> #pong
15:50 <armabot> pung
15:50 <joda_bo1> #pung
15:50 <armabot> pang
15:50 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as jod1
15:50 -!- jod1 is now known as joda_bot
15:54 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> #pang
15:58 <armabot> peng
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> #peng
15:58 <armabot> ping
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> no pyng?
15:59 * Lucifer_arma notes when nobody plays the game, you use AIs instead
15:59 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
16:00 <wrtlprnft> AIs can't play fortress really well
16:00 <joda_bot> #tell armabot ping
16:00 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: You just told me, why should I tell myself?
16:00 <wrtlprnft> #ping
16:01 <armabot> pong
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pong
16:01 <armabot> pung
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pung
16:01 <armabot> pang
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pang
16:01 <armabot> peng
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #peng
16:01 <armabot> ping
16:01 <joda_bot> #P?ng
16:01 <joda_bot> #p?ng
16:01 <joda_bot> :P
16:01 <joda_bot> #poeng
16:01 <wrtlprnft> no, those don't exist :D
16:13 * n54 just saw this movie on tv and it was entertaining http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0309698/
16:18 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-015-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:32 <guru3> my parents watched that a while back
16:33 <n54> hi :)
16:33 <guru3> 8 more exams n54
16:33 <n54> gah
16:33 <guru3> done 7
16:33 <n54> another full week?
16:36 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:55 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:08 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:39 <ghableska> hello
17:39 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
17:39 <ghableska> hi wrtl
17:39 * wrtlprnft is frustrated by some weird error that should never happen
17:39 <ghableska> aww
17:41 <wrtlprnft> "Arithmetic Exception"
17:42 <ghableska> mm
17:42 * ghableska has no idea what that is, but feels sorry all the same ;)(
17:42 <wrtlprnft> happens in a library function with totally normal parameters
17:42 <wrtlprnft> heh. I don't excactly know under what condition that happens either
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> 2 more exams for me :)
17:43 <ghableska> sounds fun
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> both tomorrow....
17:43 <wrtlprnft> oh wow
17:43 <ghableska> even better ;)
17:43 <wrtlprnft> well, at least it's over then ;)
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it's calculus in the morning, then about a 3 hour break, and then history. So I'm studying calculus right now and tonight, and I'll do my history studying in those 3 hours. :)
17:44 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> registered for my calc II class already, it starts May 30, it looks like.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> that's a nice chunk of time in between :D
17:45 * Lucifer_arma needs to update his plan to accomodate working in General Chemistry and the physics class he just found out he has to take
17:45 * ghableska is taking physics and chem next year...
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that chunk of time used to be my texas government class and my stupid theatre class, but I finished both of those classes yesterday.
17:45 <wrtlprnft> hmm. I could offer you a fix for the problem with the screen ratio right now if a) it didn't crash and b) sf CVS would work
17:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have to take the physics and chem in the fall, they're prerequisites for other classes and I can't have them bottlenecking me.
17:46 <Lucifer_arma> I already took the chem class, but dropped it when the best I could get out of it was a C. Big daddy doesn't do Cs.
17:46 <wrtlprnft> don't remind me of physics
17:46 <ghableska> hehe
17:47 <wrtlprnft> the physics class i'm in right now is so boring, not hard or something, it's just going slooow
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's kinda annoying that I have to take the algebra-based physics class as a prereq for the calc-based physics. :(
17:47 <ghableska> aren't they related?
17:47 <wrtlprnft> usually i spend half the time we're given for working with reading and the teaching time sleeping because it's so easy
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they are. I should look on the bright side, it's more algebra drill for me, and I need that.
17:47 <ghableska> lol
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> but more likely the calc-based class is going to reveal why the algebra works, and I can just learn the algebra then, but the school disagrees with me
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> still, I'll take the good with the bad. It's going to upset my plan enough to force me into another semester at community college, which means I can take an extra class that I had originally put off for the 4 year school,
17:49 <wrtlprnft> always important to know why something works
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> and that results in saving money. :)
17:49 <ghableska> always good
17:49 <wrtlprnft> that's one of the reasons why this physics class is so boring
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, it's also more money spent, because of the extra class. Heh.
17:50 <wrtlprnft> it's just, "here's the formula and you'll get on the test". heck, if i am given the formula on the test why am i even in class? I could just go to the test and read and apply it
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> I hated high school, man. As much as I hate memorizing formulas, I like that I have to.
17:51 <ghableska> uh oh
17:51 <ghableska> well, 9th grade wasn
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> also, it's almost a certainty that this particular physics class will go very quickly. It's a semester, and the material will be equal to or greater the amount of material given in a year's high school physics class
17:51 <ghableska> *wasn't too bad
17:51 <wrtlprnft> If i know that the formula is on the test I won't learn it and never remember it anytime after the test
17:52 <ghableska> so far at least
17:52 * Lucifer_arma is still riding the buzz from his last calc test :)
17:52 <ghableska> :)
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on top of the world!
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:52 <wrtlprnft> The intersting question is: "how do i derive the formula from more basic ones?". then I can just re-derive it when needed in case i forgot it
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> A more interesting question is, "Should I start dishes right now and then take a dump, or take a dump and then start dishes?"
18:03 <ghableska> latter
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking you're right
18:03 <ghableska> :)
18:06 <n54> yeah definetly option number 2
18:06 <ghableska> hehe
18:06 <n54> :)
18:06 <ghableska> headache gone?
18:06 <n54> yeah sort of :)
18:06 <n54> at least it's "hidign" :)
18:06 <n54> hiding*
18:07 <ghableska> hehe
18:07 <n54> :)
18:08 <ghableska> so...
18:09 <n54> hmm...
18:13 * n54 kicks a can
18:13 <ghableska> heh
18:13 <n54> :)
18:20 <ghableska> mm
18:20 <ghableska> #f
18:20 <armabot> Random Fortune: Madness has no purpose. Or reason. But it may have a goal. || -- Spock, "The Alternative Factor", stardate 3088.7
18:20 <ghableska> lol
18:21 <n54> :)
18:21 <ghableska> how are you?
18:22 <n54> me?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> what the heck is happening with arma here? At one point I change the value of some variable, and the next time it gets used it is back at the old one...
18:22 <ghableska> lol wow.... http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/
18:24 <n54> gah that site is a pain to read though :S
18:24 <ghableska> yeah
18:24 <ghableska> ads everywhere...
18:25 <n54> yup
18:27 <wrtlprnft> i dont see any ads
18:27 <ghableska> ?
18:27 <ghableska> hmmm
18:28 <n54> the ads are one thing the other is that each page content is tiny
18:29 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/noads.png
18:29 <wrtlprnft> new application for kruler :D
18:30 <ghableska> nice
18:30 <wrtlprnft> I should have made them all different colors :D
18:31 <n54> I thought the article was a joke at first but it isn't is it?
18:31 <ghableska> i got the link from slashdot...
18:32 <n54> hmm that makes me dubious again ;)
18:32 <ghableska> ;)
18:35 <n54> I skipped to the last page and I've got to say I wonder what the deal is with drilling into the cpu...
18:35 <ghableska> hehehe
18:36 <ghableska> anyone heard of Spore?
18:37 <n54> nope
18:38 <ghableska> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/595/595975p1.html if you haven't searched for it already...
18:38 <ghableska> it really starts talking about it on the second page though...
18:39 <n54> ah ok I' still stuck on the drilling into cpu's stuff :)
18:39 <ghableska> hehehe
18:41 <wrtlprnft> OUCH
18:41 <wrtlprnft> now i see why it changed...
18:41 <ghableska> ?
18:41 <wrtlprnft> grr what a stupid bug
18:41 <ghableska> ?
18:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I'll make that DTD this week, hopefully
18:43 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:43 * ghableska feels stupid
18:43 <ghableska> i forgot about the tab name filler...
18:43 <ghableska> until now.
18:43 <ghableska> :X
18:43 <n54> oh I read about that spore game in wired, they had something on that
18:44 <ghableska> sounds interesting..
18:44 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: guess where i got the idea for arma from?
18:44 <ghableska> ?
18:44 <ghableska> the tab thing?
18:45 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:45 <n54> yes ghableska
18:45 <ghableska> ok, where...?
18:45 * n54 emant the game
18:45 <wrtlprnft> i got it from irc ghableska ghableska from irc i got it ghableska
18:46 <wrtlprnft> :D
18:46 <ghableska> creative... :P
18:46 * wrtlprnft is going crazy
18:46 * ghableska can tell
18:48 * ghableska wants terragen 2
18:48 <ghableska> :D:D:D:D:D:D
18:49 <wrtlprnft> why can't you get it?
18:49 <ghableska> not out yet :P
18:49 <wrtlprnft> #g 1024/768+1
18:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (1,024 / 768) + 1 = 2.33333333
18:50 <ghableska> aspect ratio?
18:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 3/4
18:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 3 / 4 = 0.75
18:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, really?
18:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 3/4+1
18:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (3 / 4) + 1 = 1.75
18:58 -!- Manta [n=kim@64-118-125-35-as-06.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has joined #armagetron
18:59 <wrtlprnft> phew... fixed it now
18:59 <wrtlprnft> now i just need a working CVS and Lucifer_arma to test it
18:59 <wrtlprnft> i have no idea how to convince to use another screen ratio than 4:3
18:59 <wrtlprnft> *convince arma
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> hack the window sizes array and add a different ratio to it
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> I forget where it is, though. sorry. :(
19:00 <n54> hehe someone at the obsd channel posted this: http://mfrost.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/gracem.jpg
19:01 <wrtlprnft> heh. the openbsd guys seem to be exactly as offtopic as we are
19:01 <n54> they're about x64 times loonier for the most part (not a sane soul in sight there) XD
19:02 <n54> and they have a penchant for insult :)
19:02 <wrtlprnft> luckily they have you :D
19:04 <n54> that reply is somehow in the right direction but they/we usually take it further than that ;)
19:10 <n54> wrtlprnft: seems your wish sort of came true or is beginning to come true; http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/05/10/0439246.shtml
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19:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
19:21 <Self_Destructo> <!ATTLIST Message
19:21 <Self_Destructo> type (center | console | admin | cockpit)
19:21 <Self_Destructo> think you will be able to support the cockpit one?
20:03 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: kinda hard since it needs extra cockpit code
20:04 <wrtlprnft> I need to revise the cockit DTD btw :S
20:04 <wrtlprnft> it's kinda repetive right now
20:08 -!- Manta [n=kim@64-118-125-35-as-06.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:19 <wrtlprnft> yay figured out how <!ENTITY> works :D
20:22 <n54> :)
20:22 <wrtlprnft> by reverse engineering the XHTML 1.0 strict DTD :D
20:24 <n54> this site although not especially deep is a nice place for quick lookups (especially if you've forgotten something you used to know): http://www.w3schools.com/dtd/dtd_entities.asp
20:25 <n54> it's got the same for html, css, xml & probably some other stuff too *doesn't remember*
20:26 <wrtlprnft> DTDs and XML aren't easy to separate :D
20:26 <n54> yeah it can be a hassle
20:27 <wrtlprnft> but i didn't know that all those ä things are <!ENTITIES>
20:27 <n54> at least to my experience most people who come from a html background find it that way in the start
20:27 <wrtlprnft> although they're called entities, of course...
20:28 <n54> another quickie might be to as SD since xml etc. is his thing
20:29 <wrtlprnft> well, the DTD was working, I just had lotsa repeated stuff and it was a pain to edit
20:29 <n54> since he learnt xml etc. before html I mean
20:29 <n54> yeah I got you on that :)
20:31 <n54> if I thought I could be counted on to produce anything within a reasonable timeframe I would assist
20:31 <wrtlprnft> Get CVS HEAD running :D
20:32 <n54> haha, no :)
20:32 <wrtlprnft> i'm sure Self_Destructo can tell you excactly how to do that :D
20:32 <wrtlprnft> -c
20:32 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't take too ling
20:32 <wrtlprnft> *long
20:32 * wrtlprnft kicks his keyboard
20:33 <n54> sorry but it's not an option for me, I can barely get through the days as it is :)
20:33 <n54> hopefully in the future :D
20:34 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:34 <n54> perhaps within the next five years I'll manage to cough up a font or two :) (I won't aim higher than that)
20:36 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:36 <n54> hehe and if I look at my past trackrecord the last three years even that may be stretching it ;)
20:36 <n54> or pushing :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: upload script for resources doesn't work
20:51 * wrtlprnft screws the central script and uploads the map to his own server
20:52 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: so detailed... o.o
20:52 <wrtlprnft> well, it throws an internal server error
20:52 * Luke-Jr smacks Apache for being undetailed
20:52 <wrtlprnft> i assumed you could figure it out from the error log ;)
20:53 <Luke-Jr> probably relevant that over the past day and next few, I'm actually upgrading stuff
20:53 <Luke-Jr> [Thu May 11 01:51:42 2006] [error] [client 24.77.247.253] /usr/bin/php-cgi: error while loading shared libraries: libmysqlclient.so.12: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
20:54 <wrtlprnft> uh
20:54 <wrtlprnft> that script uses mysql?
20:55 <Luke-Jr> no
20:55 <Luke-Jr> but dynamic linking of php-cgi fails
20:55 <wrtlprnft> well... I'll still use my own repository :D
20:55 <Luke-Jr> and that script uses CGI for setuid
20:56 <Luke-Jr> I suspect if I restart Apache now I'll have problems
20:56 <Luke-Jr> boo
20:57 <Luke-Jr> oh well, I don't expect php will be done recompiling before I leave-- so hopefully it will fix tiself
21:05 <wrtlprnft> anyone up to join crazy lines so i can see if it works right?
21:05 <wrtlprnft> (arma server)
21:05 <Luke-Jr> nope, no time
21:10 <wrtlprnft> it'll be a fine surprise for everyone who joins until it's fixed :d
21:11 <wrtlprnft> it renames everyone to Player 1, gives them a boring default tail color and lets them say "/me is a noob." every round
21:11 * Lucifer_arma notices the prominent announcement that indictes the central repository is down and servers depending on it may not work
21:11 <wrtlprnft> it's up, you just can't upload new maps
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
21:56 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: it can be there, and implemented as we got I guess.
21:56 <Self_Destructo> go*
21:56 <Self_Destructo> I could have told you how entities work, btw
--- Log closed Wed May 10 21:56:42 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 10 21:56:51 2006
21:56 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:56 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 8 secs
21:57 <wrtlprnft> what the...
21:57 <wrtlprnft> IRSSI seemingly just froze for half an hour
21:57 <n54> strange
21:58 <wrtlprnft> probably i pressed CTRL-Z or something
21:58 <wrtlprnft> hmm, no, no effect
21:59 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ok, works now. I'll still use my personal repository though, the server is already configured :D
22:00 <wrtlprnft> not ANOTHER kernel release
22:00 <wrtlprnft> do they come in 12- hour tacts now?
22:00 <n54> hehe
22:00 <wrtlprnft> especially since those kernel logs don't tell me anything
22:01 <wrtlprnft> no idea if that's a serious security hole or just a possible crash in some exotic driver
22:03 <wrtlprnft> anyways
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:04 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:04 <n54> cya all I'm leaving too
22:04 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
Log from 2006-05-11:
--- Day changed Thu May 11 2006
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06:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I hope the version increments quickly, 2.6.18 is supposed to include a driver for my WiFi dongle
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07:30 -!- joda_bot [n=joda@perugia.math.uni-paderborn.de] has joined #armagetron
07:30 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft, are you there ? ;)
07:31 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6965
07:31 <joda_bot> :)
07:37 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: now i am
07:41 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: So is MBC interested in playing vs. the 8th or do we just skip that ?
07:41 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: For me it depends on MBC and we only qualify for further matches if that's ok for the other teams
07:43 <joda_bot> #later tell wrtlprnft ping ;)
07:43 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
07:44 <joda_bot> #echo #echo echo
07:44 <armabot> #echo echo
07:44 <joda_bot> #later tell armabot #echo #later tell armabot ...
07:44 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: I can't send notes to myself.
07:46 <joda_bot> #echo #ping
07:46 <armabot> #ping
07:46 <joda_bot> #say #ping
07:48 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ok, i should then check with AW and something something right ?
07:49 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: If one of them disagrees with us reentering we declare it training otherwise we do a playoff
07:49 <joda_bot> us=8th
07:50 <wrtlprnft> if you want you can :D
07:50 <wrtlprnft> (honestly doesn't matter for us we'll likely get stomped anyways :D )
07:52 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: nah, we just mess ourself up too ;)
07:54 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Who decides the dates for MBC ?
07:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, generally I just ask a date and if there's enough people who can play it's set :)
07:58 <joda_bot> ok, I'll offer some proposals then
08:12 <joda_bot> #later tell lackadaisical Does ?? support the 8th replacing Knights of Ni? if not we only do a friendship game vs. MBC
08:12 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
08:14 <z-man> anyone else confused by the team ancronyms?
08:16 <joda_bot> z-man: yes ;) atleast at times I get confused by "??" = Team Something Something
08:17 <joda_bot> z-man: the rest is fine for me
08:17 <wrtlprnft> not that compilicated
08:17 <z-man> That's about the only one that doesn't confuse me :)
08:17 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: we could plan and play the game and then see if it counts :D
08:17 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I already considered doing it tonight ;)
08:18 <wrtlprnft> depends on if I can get my team together :D
08:18 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: same for me ;)
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:19 * joda_bot hates Thunderbird using konqueror
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:20 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: which time ?=
08:20 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: 18:00 GMT ok ?
08:20 <joda_bot> or earlier ;)
08:21 <wrtlprnft> #g 18:00 GMT in CDT
08:21 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:21 <wrtlprnft> aww
08:21 <wrtlprnft> if that's 1PM CDT I can't play...
08:21 <joda_bot> hm
08:22 <joda_bot> CDT = GMT-5
08:22 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:22 <joda_bot> ok, let's find a timezone overlap ;)
08:22 <wrtlprnft> 18:00 - 5:00 == 13:00
08:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_(Tronic_SPOON)#General_availability
08:23 <joda_bot> oh my way ;)
08:23 <joda_bot> oh = on
08:23 <wrtlprnft> bst is GMT - 1 IIRC
08:24 <joda_bot> are demomatt or amoosh important ?
08:24 <wrtlprnft> well
08:24 <joda_bot> because they kind of lock down the corridor ;)
08:24 <wrtlprnft> we need 5 players i guess
08:24 <wrtlprnft> and count out wizz, she doesn't play spoon anymore
08:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: not a problem as she is available all time ;)
08:26 <wrtlprnft> well, it is a problem since that makes one player less :D
08:26 <joda_bot> 6PM-9PM looks ok ...
08:26 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: reload and look if it's still 5 :D
08:26 <wrtlprnft> but spider_ isn't on the list and i hope he can play
08:26 <joda_bot> this is 13:00-16:00 GMT
08:27 <joda_bot> e.g. 15:00 - 18:00 GMT ?
08:27 <joda_bot> uhh... last was GMT+2 (Germany)
08:27 <wrtlprnft> err
08:27 <wrtlprnft> 6PM == 18:00
08:28 <wrtlprnft> 18:00 + 5:00 = 23:00
08:28 <wrtlprnft> that's 1AM in Germany then
08:28 <joda_bot> 6PM CDT => 1 PM GMT => 3 PM GMT+2
08:29 <wrtlprnft> yuh have to add 5, not subtract...
08:29 <wrtlprnft> *you
08:29 <joda_bot> uh ah right ;)
08:29 <joda_bot> makes sense
08:30 <joda_bot> aw that makes it pretty difficult ...
08:30 <wrtlprnft> :(
08:30 <wrtlprnft> weekend?
08:31 <joda_bot> our times are usually 13:00-22:00 GMT => 08:00-17:00 CDT ?
08:31 <joda_bot> That's weekend times
08:31 <joda_bot> we might at most pick 23:00 GMT
08:31 <wrtlprnft> saturday (almost) any time is fine with mwe
08:32 <joda_bot> it's already 01:00 AM (German time)
08:32 <wrtlprnft> heh. I know joda_bot... that's why weekends are the only time i can call my parents
08:32 <joda_bot> ok, you try to get 5 players as early as possible and I try to get them as late as possible
08:32 <wrtlprnft> lol
08:33 <joda_bot> sasha has no problem playing late
08:33 <wrtlprnft> 5PM is bad for me, 4PM would be better
08:34 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: which timezone ;)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> mine
08:34 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: we should make it ;) because there are quite some us players
08:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ah wrong they're form the uk ;)
08:35 <joda_bot> so it's the same problem for them
08:35 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: can you post that time on the mbc forums (4PM CDT)?
08:35 <wrtlprnft> or 2PM, something like that
08:35 <wrtlprnft> I can't from here due to some stupid internet filter
08:36 <joda_bot> 4pm CDT => 21:00 GMT => 23:00 GMT+2
08:36 <joda_bot> ok ?
08:36 <joda_bot> just to make sure we have the same idea and I did not mess up conversion
08:36 <wrtlprnft> yes, that looks fine
08:37 <joda_bot> so earlier is a nono for MBC ?
08:37 <wrtlprnft> i can play earlier
08:37 <wrtlprnft> you can ask for earlier time, see who can play
08:38 <wrtlprnft> you could pobably even get it to 1PM
08:39 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: 1pm CDT => 13:00 CDT => 18:00 GMT => 20:00 GMT+2
08:39 <wrtlprnft> if all come as that table says we'll get ota, SD, spider_, and EE, that's gonna be a nice team :)
08:39 <joda_bot> which sounds a lot more comfortable for us
08:39 <wrtlprnft> then make it 1PM :)
08:39 <wrtlprnft> i just said 4PM was the latest i could come
08:39 <wrtlprnft> and g2g now, school
08:39 <joda_bot> I guess we settle for a time between 18:00 GMT - 21:00 GMT (weekend?) correct ?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:40 <joda_bot> that's 1pm - 4pm CDT
08:40 <wrtlprnft> exactly :)
08:40 <joda_bot> ok ... fine
08:40 <wrtlprnft> please post it to the mbc forums so there's some time for people to say whether they can come
08:41 * wrtlprnft is really away now
08:50 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
09:11 <joda_bot> hi n54
09:12 <n54> hi joda :)
09:15 <joda_bot> hm, lucifer is off :|
09:15 <joda_bot> => wiki is offline
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10:36 <joda_bot> wiki is back online ;)
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17:03 <joda_bot> z-man z-man-home: any chance you can extract the ip of a player on the vserver
17:03 <joda_bot> I can't access the screen session from the tron account
17:03 <joda_bot> Someone is imposting and I guess I've met this one before
17:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: do you have screen access for the vServer ?
17:18 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:25 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: nope
17:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got his IP ;)
17:26 <z-man-home> joda_bot: how?
17:26 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: first login name was Rudi
17:26 <joda_bot> from z-mans logs
17:26 <joda_bot> his home dir is free to read ;)
17:26 <z-man-home> They're readable?
17:26 <z-man-home> heh
17:27 <wrtlprnft> just figured that out
17:27 <z-man-home> how forward thinking of me
17:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:28 <joda_bot> :P
17:28 <joda_bot> z-man-home: I was about to try to find the screen pid file, and try to attach to a different users screen session
17:28 <joda_bot> not sure if that will work
17:29 <z-man-home> I think it wouldn't
17:29 <joda_bot> afaik you have to tell screen to allow it ;)
17:29 <wrtlprnft> that would better not work or my server has a big security hole
17:29 <wrtlprnft> did you look at /proc/cpuinfo? impressive
17:30 <wrtlprnft> and 6G of ram aren't unimpressive either ;)
17:30 <wrtlprnft> assuming those are the real specs and not messed up by the virtual machine
17:30 <z-man-home> well, that's the host's specs, I think
17:32 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: well, i only see that IP logging in and out...
17:33 <z-man-home> Rudi's IP is again totally different from any other moron's IP I've seen, different subnet
17:33 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: can I have 6 GB RAM?
17:34 <z-man-home> Sure, make a big swapfile
17:34 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:34 <joda_bot> z-man-home: wrtlprnft: did he really log out right afterwards ?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no, that vserver seems to have 5g ram :)
17:34 <Luke-Jr> already have that
17:34 <Luke-Jr> OS: GNU/Linux 2.6.14-gentoo-r2-ljr/x86_64 - CPU: 1 x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (2202.889 MHz) - Processes: 350 - Uptime: 43d 19h 55m - Users: 95 - Load Average: 2.43 - Memory Usage: 3518MB/1003MB (350%)
17:34 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: nvm, i see now... comes later
17:34 <Luke-Jr> 2.5 GB of swap used
17:34 <wrtlprnft> 6G ram and 8G swap
17:35 <Luke-Jr> who needs swap w/ 6 GB RAM?
17:35 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: WTF are you running on your machine? Is this just one huge tmpfs?
17:35 <wrtlprnft> well, 2mb of it are used
17:35 <wrtlprnft> and 4CPUs are nice too
17:35 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: you have access; ps uax =p
17:35 <Luke-Jr> my tmpfs is 90 MB
17:36 * z-man-home can't be bothered
17:36 <z-man-home> :)
17:36 <Luke-Jr> want me to paste it here? lol
17:36 <z-man-home> err, no
17:36 <z-man-home> I'm not really that interested, actually ;)
17:36 <Luke-Jr> KDE, I guess
17:37 <Luke-Jr> something like 10-15 Konsoles, similar w/ Konqueror
17:37 <Luke-Jr> things like that
17:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah. and some kagregator is using up your CPU
17:37 <Luke-Jr> oh, right
17:37 <Luke-Jr> I hate Akregator
17:37 <wrtlprnft> and tons of /usr/bin/bash
17:37 <wrtlprnft> err, /bin/bash
17:37 <Luke-Jr> Know a good RSS thing?
17:37 <Luke-Jr> one that doesn't eat RAM and CPU?
17:37 <joda_bot> z-man-home: is there a vserver admin pw ?
17:37 <wrtlprnft> doesn't exist i guess
17:37 <Luke-Jr> RSS sucks anyway
17:38 <wrtlprnft> everything needs RAM and CPU
17:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: I'm in a mood to find Rudi and ban him ;)
17:38 <Luke-Jr> news should be pushed, not pulled
17:38 <z-man-home> Yes, but I'm not posting it on IRC
17:38 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's mailing lists
17:38 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: you know what I mean
17:38 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: yes, but something in a standard format for aggregation and such
17:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: can u put it into a text file... ah wait where are the autoexec.cfg for the tron server ;)
17:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I use opera anyways, so i use the rss reader it has as a bonus :D
17:39 <z-man-home> can't you just put a ssh key on the tron user account?
17:40 <joda_bot> generated the key but can't append it ;)
17:40 <joda_bot> your right are not that generous ;)
17:41 <z-man-home> heheh
17:41 <wrtlprnft> warning, i just put mine there, don't add that unless you want to give me access
17:41 <z-man-home> I may be dumb, but not stupid
17:41 <z-man-home> np
17:41 <wrtlprnft> the one ending in mathias@laptop is mine
17:42 <Luke-Jr> what are you all talking about anyway?
17:42 <Luke-Jr> I just heard 6 GB RAM =p
17:43 <z-man-home> Done, you can now both also login as z-man
17:43 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:43 <z-man-home> and run "screen -RR" from there
17:43 <joda_bot> z-man-home: are you sure there is admin pw ?
17:43 <z-man-home> Oh, that admin pw
17:43 <z-man-home> no, there isn't one
17:44 <joda_bot> there is none in the var autoexec.cfg and none in the /etc/armagetronad-dedicated7 ...
17:44 <joda_bot> *sigh*
17:44 <Luke-Jr> z-man: wouldn't -rx work better? =p
17:44 <z-man-home> I thought you meant the ROOT pw
17:44 <joda_bot> ah no ;)
17:44 <joda_bot> I just wanted to get ban / kick rights ;)
17:44 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:46 <z-man-home> K, now there is an ADMIN_PASS
17:46 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: wtf are you talking about?
17:47 <Luke-Jr> z-man: screen -rx
17:47 <z-man-home> why? -RR always works fine for me :)
17:47 <Luke-Jr> what are *you* talking about? =p
17:47 <Luke-Jr> -RR appears it wouldn't work well w/ multiple screen sessions
17:47 <z-man-home> The vserver test
17:47 <Luke-Jr> vserver test?
17:48 <z-man-home> -RR opens the first it can get
17:48 <Luke-Jr> I noticed
17:48 <z-man-home> yes, I "rented" a zero cost vserver for three days
17:48 <Luke-Jr> O.o
17:48 <z-man-home> It's on the developer's only section in the forum
17:48 * Luke-Jr wonders what the point is?
17:48 <Luke-Jr> ok
17:48 <z-man-home> the access data, I mean
17:48 <z-man-home> To test whether a vserver has enough power as a game server
17:49 <z-man-home> so we can tell aspiring server admins "yes, a vserver is enough"
17:49 <z-man-home> or not :)
17:49 <Luke-Jr> what is a 'vserver'?
17:50 <Luke-Jr> just UML?
17:50 <z-man-home> A virtual server
17:50 <z-man-home> no, a server machine
17:50 <z-man-home> but not a real one, it's emulated in a virtual machine on some BIG box
17:50 <Luke-Jr> so... uml
17:50 <z-man-home> what's UML? beside universal markup stuff :)
17:51 <Luke-Jr> User Mode Linux
17:51 <z-man-home> yes, something like that
17:51 <z-man-home> but actually, I think XEN is used
17:51 <Luke-Jr> Linux that runs as a usermode process'
17:51 <Luke-Jr> o
17:51 <z-man-home> as a basis
17:51 <Luke-Jr> so why *wouldn't* it work?
17:51 <z-man-home> The actual software is called "Virtuozzo"
17:51 <z-man-home> Because it may not have enough CPU power
17:52 <z-man-home> Or memory
17:52 <z-man-home> Or restrictions for software you can install imposed by the hoster
17:53 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: ack, i forgot a letter in my key
17:53 <Luke-Jr> software restrictions kinda defeat the point of a vserver
17:53 <wrtlprnft> it would need to say "ssh-rsa", not "sh-rsa" to work
17:54 <Luke-Jr> ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAACBALDS9qOvIO8pj2i3Q7ozRw+yjm5gz3GcDHbNowEQ42P74QCoBMzGeGh418mwivvhMGsmQne8E5XsK3FJQnY/ymv4mmV0rpgCAVdUTJR5SwycEGdr81nRS1Q70X93Q5TNKZUrg4t5K5OWZYJDn6qRm82RNSOp6o8GZVdgI9G1MCLRAAAAFQDIkyXr2kflmOrqutaoNeR35J3JFwAAAIA4J70r4Vj6keuOHk/CesYt7tHCoIxM6fghPrc8WNRrefhAbE9Vpso9TxyTvgPL8eari+jPAA0BW0B42TvzEnDP0plrmMnGkn+bEw7VNfAkV61bgXKNb12WY9kXXyXJid9085ibG+hvzG1ENp19MfJgL/DBBeMztTXoD3YBAwNnzAAAAIB9TVk7yGtzzX/5QH8n
17:54 <Luke-Jr> BkK728JilX6l+ybNWMZ81xcenhO/GtfpbLeNlBgaNmuEiXiNODsxa0VKJj5Av94GKcQ0FddwGmU2yhfFo9N+afa9TkE/Bqg8BU4riFoqo6OVuWegTsI+o1RU0Xpt/hxXS3UK0e6vLQWu+vZyEe9NDOgz5A== luke-jr@arumekun
17:54 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: thanks :)
17:56 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: wait, how do I know you're really Luke-Jr?
17:57 * z-man-home is slightly paranoid
17:57 <z-man-home> Use the access data from the forum to login as tron, you should be able to ssh to z-man@localhost then if you want access to the running server
17:57 <wrtlprnft> good point ;)
17:58 <wrtlprnft> well, then you could as well totally get rid of the tron account somehow ;)
17:58 <z-man-home> Yeah, I probably could
17:59 <z-man-home> but I wrote down the password to the other one on a piece of paper I can't find
17:59 <z-man-home> :)
17:59 <z-man-home> And the server will probably get shut down in a few hours, so I won't bother. It's yours now :)
18:00 <joda_bot> hm ?
18:00 <z-man-home> Well, the transatlantic people may have a thing or two to test
18:01 <Luke-Jr> heh, anyone think it might be worth asking them to do a deal: we get a vserver for the project, and we recommend them for hosting? ;)
18:02 <Luke-Jr> so who's running the server in screen?
18:02 <z-man-home> Not me
18:02 <z-man-home> you can steal it with -RR -D :)
18:02 <Luke-Jr> not really
18:03 <Luke-Jr> -RR makes a new session
18:03 <Luke-Jr> had to do -Rx for that
18:03 <z-man-home> and "screen -RR -D" just got me the server process. I have it now, bwahahaha!
18:04 <z-man-home> hmm, shall I kick wrtl?
18:04 <Luke-Jr> lol
18:04 <z-man-home> of course, you have to be user z-man, that's the one that is running the server
18:04 <z-man-home> hey
18:04 <z-man-home> screen sessions can be shared?
18:05 <Luke-Jr> with -x
18:05 <z-man-home> fun
18:06 <z-man-home> there, that was it
18:06 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
18:06 <z-man-home> server shutting down
18:07 <joda_bot> ...
18:07 <Luke-Jr> y
18:07 <joda_bot> lol someone restarted the system ;)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> wth just happened?
18:07 <z-man-home> yes, probably the admins.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: yes, they can
18:07 <z-man-home> It was running for three days already
18:07 <wrtlprnft> use screen -x
18:07 <z-man-home> we already discussed that in screen :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:07 <Luke-Jr> heh, anyone think it might be worth asking them to do a deal: we get a vserver for the project, and we recommend them for hosting? ;)
18:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:08 <z-man-home> Aren't we already doing that with antix?
18:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:08 <z-man-home> microbus's son who owns the servers MBC is running on
18:08 <wrtlprnft> i know that
18:08 <wrtlprnft> but i thought that was only sp and mbc
18:08 <Luke-Jr> we are? o.o
18:09 <wrtlprnft> and there's donations for mbc as well to keep the server up
18:09 <z-man-home> well, we're not actually recommending their service, but they're mentioned somewhere in the docs
18:09 <Luke-Jr> do we get anything in exchange?
18:09 <z-man-home> a master server
18:09 <Luke-Jr> hm
18:09 <z-man-home> and the mention is just with the list of people who run master servers, nowhere prominent
18:10 * wrtlprnft never saw that list
18:10 <z-man-home> just in the included docs nobody reads anyway
18:10 <Luke-Jr> well, if someone will trade a project vserver (Svn, web, etc) for recommendation, that'd be better for us I think ;)
18:10 <wrtlprnft> i know luci has one, but that's about it
18:10 <wrtlprnft> i assume z-man-home has one, too
18:10 <wrtlprnft> abd there's 5 of them :D
18:10 <z-man-home> right
18:10 <z-man-home> four
18:10 <wrtlprnft> hmm
18:10 <wrtlprnft> the last one is luke's then?
18:10 <z-man-home> iF has the fourth
18:10 <wrtlprnft> ah
18:10 <Luke-Jr> I don't run one
18:11 <wrtlprnft> might have been, who knows
18:11 * z-man-home goes to bed
18:11 <wrtlprnft> night
18:11 <Luke-Jr> why?
18:12 <joda_bot> nixda.net runs on a 1&1 vserver AFAIK
18:12 <z-man-home> night
18:12 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, 1and1 is annoying
18:12 * joda_bot is admin .... hihi but no clue about the deals
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Registrar: EPAG DOMAINSERVICES GMBH
18:12 <joda_bot> well I got an account and admin rights for the server ;)
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Person : Thorsten Klee
18:13 <joda_bot> which is running on my account not root
18:13 <wrtlprnft> Person : Webplus24 GmbH
18:13 <wrtlprnft> nice :)
18:13 <joda_bot> Thorsten is the real owner ;) but he has no time
18:13 <joda_bot> or interest anymore
18:14 <wrtlprnft> I'm thinking about a vserver, it would probably be stronger from network, CPU and RAM than my current machine, but I have no idea how i can live with 3GM storage
18:14 <wrtlprnft> su i guess I'll stay with my current setup
18:14 <wrtlprnft> maybe fix the RAM one day, those crashes and SSH errors are annoying
18:15 <joda_bot> hehe
18:15 <wrtlprnft> not hehe. always fun to phone my parents in the middle of the night to press the restart button
18:16 <wrtlprnft> and of course, since I'm no there I have no way to fix it
18:16 <wrtlprnft> *not
18:16 <Luke-Jr> BTW, ARP Proxy is nice
18:28 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: the chat on your site is somewhat disfunctional... i can only connect for a few seconds
18:28 <wrtlprnft> why not direct it to this channel? :D
18:33 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873DE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: might be... there is noone around anyways
18:40 <joda_bot> and sylv setup the chat
18:40 <joda_bot> I'd rather use a java applet or some flash irc client if such a solution exists
18:42 * n54 is around, at least partly...
18:43 <wrtlprnft> just post a link to a real irc client :D
18:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 29 times.
18:44 <wrtlprnft> For example, like this: * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead
18:44 <wrtlprnft> is Lucifer a split personality then?
18:44 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ?
18:45 <joda_bot> ah ok, you're reading tank's report site again ?
18:45 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:45 <wrtlprnft> it's fun once in a while :D
18:45 <n54> yeah :)
18:46 <wrtlprnft> and no wonder, ghab still has the shortest lines :D
18:46 <n54> :)
19:04 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: Java works [almost] anywhere
19:04 <Luke-Jr> though personally, I'd prefer moving most IRC within a MOO somewhere =p
19:14 <Luke-Jr> 4. Read-only rsync service
19:15 <joda_bot> gn8
19:15 <Luke-Jr> Our improved CVS service architecture, which we plan to deploy tomorrow afternoon (2006-05-12),
19:15 <Luke-Jr> bad timing, I'll be gone until Mon
19:15 <Luke-Jr> but once I get back, Svn shouldn't be long
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19:19 <wrtlprnft> cya Luke-Jr
19:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
19:33 <Lucifer_arma> k
19:33 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> how did the tests go?
19:34 <wrtlprnft> s/tests/exams/
19:37 <n54> yeah how did it go?
19:38 <Luke-Jr> he failed =p j/k
19:39 <wrtlprnft> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Remove_Gnome
19:39 <wrtlprnft> just found that... handy :)
19:40 <wrtlprnft> I still had some packages that occasionally updated for no reason... hope they're gone now
19:40 * wrtlprnft made the mistake to install and try GNOME and never really got rid of it
19:40 <wrtlprnft> first thing it did was mess up my kmenu
19:43 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: depclean should wrok, in theory
19:43 * Luke-Jr saved the contents of 'emerge -pv' beofre installing it ;)
19:51 <wrtlprnft> it wasn't just that
19:51 <wrtlprnft> i had some things like themes for gnome installed as well
19:53 <wrtlprnft> but for some reasons they weren't in my world file...
19:59 * n54 remembers he has forgotten to take his pills....
20:06 <n54> it seems lucifer went to sleep as soon as he logged on... ?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
20:15 <wrtlprnft> probably exhausting exams :)
20:15 <n54> :)
20:24 <wrtlprnft> test
20:24 <n54> test of what?
20:24 <wrtlprnft> (testing my new logsupload script... it's only supposed to update if arma is not running... gave me a lag bomb every 5 minutes
20:25 <n54> gah
20:25 <wrtlprnft> so i wrote something to see if it uploads it :)
20:25 <n54> :)
20:25 <wrtlprnft> ok, it does
20:28 <wrtlprnft> wow 15 people already entered my trap server that renames everyone to player 1 and sets their color to red :D
20:28 <n54> hehe
20:28 <wrtlprnft> one chat line:
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: watches me put my foot up admins ass.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: say
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: hah
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: xxxxxxx
20:29 <wrtlprnft> i expected a bit more comments
20:29 <n54> so would I
20:30 <wrtlprnft> most people just entered and left. probably didn't even realize they were renamed
20:30 <wrtlprnft> but well, i guess they did on the next server they entered :D
20:30 <n54> it sticks?
20:30 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:30 <n54> ouch
20:30 <wrtlprnft> unless you rename yourself
20:31 * wrtlprnft remembers that he wanted to rename all the bots to Player 1
20:33 <wrtlprnft> s/unless/until
20:33 <wrtlprnft> it's nothing bad that happens... you just have to change your name to what it was before. Althogh it might be a pain for those people with lots of special chars and colors in their names
20:34 <n54> yeah, well I don't have that but I guess someone like supertard could be a bit peeved :)
20:35 <n54> not that I think he would be
20:35 <wrtlprnft> heh. be happy i don't reset all the instant chats to default
20:36 <wrtlprnft> I'm sure he has his name backuped somewhere
20:36 <n54> makes me wonder if the server should be able to do some of the stuff you're mentioning
20:36 <n54> as sticky I mean
20:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know. It will be fixed
20:37 <n54> becaue what you're doing is changing the user's files on their end right? otherwise how would it be sticky?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> that's a bug, although not a critical one
20:37 <n54> ok
20:37 <wrtlprnft> no, it just changes the settings
20:37 <n54> so if you restart the program all is back to usual?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> it's like you were to enter PLAYER_1 Player 1 on the console
20:38 <wrtlprnft> but since those are sticky items they get saved on exit
20:38 <wrtlprnft> it only works with a few, basically everything you can access from the menu
20:39 <wrtlprnft> the rest is either non-sticky or gets set by the server anyways
20:39 <n54> yeah i get it
20:39 <n54> it's bad imo :)
20:39 <wrtlprnft> i know it is, but not dangerous
20:40 <wrtlprnft> you can't write to any file directly
20:40 <n54> yup I got that
20:41 <wrtlprnft> although changing the old HUD configs could bake up for some confusion with noobs
20:41 <wrtlprnft> those are sticky, but they can't be accessed and reset using the menu
20:42 <n54> I'm all for the server being able to force options and settings for it's gameplay but I don't think it should have any sort of stickyness or even indirect manipulation of user files
20:43 <wrtlprnft> that's why it's a bug and going to be fixed with the next version. There's a thread in the dev forums about it
20:43 <n54> unless there were a folder dedicated to it (which might be needed)
20:43 <n54> yeah I know you told me, I'm not worried I'm just talking :D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:44 <n54> perhaps i come across as argumentative, it's not my intention, I'm jsut talking :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> it just looked to me like you thought it was a really serious issue
20:44 <wrtlprnft> the MAP_FILE and ../ one was serious
20:45 <n54> armagetron/ad is still a young program I don't except it to be "secure"
20:45 <wrtlprnft> not that young
20:46 <wrtlprnft> and, well, it should be secure enough to prevent someone else from installing spyware on your computer :D
20:46 <n54> the things I really worry about is stuff like this: http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/402
20:46 <n54> perhaps :)
20:47 <wrtlprnft> I'm pretty sure that arma has the possibility for a heap/stack overflow somewhere, but noone found it yet, so it's safe :)
20:47 <n54> lol that's a flawed definition of safe but ok ;)
20:48 <wrtlprnft> well, it would take a serious effort to find and exploit one, it's easier to just wait for the next bug in IE and use that :)
20:49 <wrtlprnft> so probably the first one to find the error will be one of the devs and i trust them not to use that against anyone and not make it public before it's fixed
20:50 <n54> noone sane would run armagetronad or similar on a truly safe system anyway, I don't worry about that
20:50 <wrtlprnft> there is no such thing as a truly safe system
20:51 <n54> you're right but read my link for reference :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> I just always think that arma is so exotic that it isn't worth designing a mass exploit and I don't think that contents of my machines are so important for anyone that they would attack me personally
20:52 <wrtlprnft> which would be a considerable amount of work and i'd probably notice it before it succeeds
20:52 <n54> I think those are flawed arguments but it's not really anything to discuss, you do as you please
20:53 <n54> and I don't mean that in any kind of bad way
20:53 <wrtlprnft> and, someone who would attack someone using arma, why would he attack me?
20:54 <wrtlprnft> *if
20:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, well, and for an attacker on this machine who would get rights on my user account there would be no use in exploiting a bug in X11 to gain root rights
20:57 <wrtlprnft> they could just log what i type and wait for me to enter my root password
20:58 <n54> the point of the article is ring0 not X itself, that's just an example (and primarily just one for what kinds of things that I think are worrying security-wise)
20:58 <wrtlprnft> and a server isn't supposed to run X11 anyways. And there's stuff like SELINUX
20:58 <wrtlprnft> there you can run apache and whatever as a normal user and just give them the special rights they need
20:59 <n54> I think you misunderstand
20:59 <wrtlprnft> so apache would gain the right to open port 80 and write to its logs, but nothing more
20:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, guess so
21:00 <n54> no worries :)
21:09 <Lucifer_arma> got a 98 on the paper I turned in late
21:09 <n54> wow
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> he wrote a comment at the end "most americans would probably disagree" :)
21:10 <wrtlprnft> nice
21:10 <n54> was this the space one?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that one
21:11 <wrtlprnft> i found sometimes it's a good idea to write something the teacher doesn't expect, although it depends on the teacher
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> so I have a 90.9% in that class right now, and I'm pretty sure I got an A on the final. Hmm, time to play what-if
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I can get as low as a 77 on the final and still get an A in the class, so that's done. :)
21:14 <wrtlprnft> what's the border for A? 85%?
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> not sure about my calc class. I might have pulled off an A, I might have slid to a B :(
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> 90%
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, 89.5%, since it rounds up to a 90
21:14 <wrtlprnft> is the exam worth so few?
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> um, it's more like my other grades are high
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> there's 5 grades total, with the lowest grade dropped, which he normally doesn't do
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> they're averaged together. 4 are tests, 1 is the paper.
21:15 <wrtlprnft> but if you're at 90.9% now...
21:16 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.159.89] has joined #armagetron
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> so basically, if the last test was really bad, then it'll be dropped, and my average is the 90.9 I have now. Or I did something wrong, likely. :)
21:16 <wrtlprnft> that means all you did until now, just excluding the exam, right?
21:16 <wrtlprnft> oh, it'll be dropped, ok
21:16 <wrtlprnft> then it makes sense
21:16 <wrtlprnft> 1.4% didn't seem like a lot of room for me ;)
21:17 <n54> what class was this btw?
21:17 <n54> history?
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> this was History 2
21:17 <n54> ok
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> #g 89.5*4
21:17 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 89.5 * 4 = 358
21:17 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A16D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358/4
21:17 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 / 4 = 89.5
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0)/3
21:18 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0) / 3 = 93.6
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 + 82.6)/4
21:18 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 + 82.6) / 4 = 90.85
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that one's my current average that doesn't include the final.
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> Basically, if this last test is worse than any test I've taken now, it gets dropped. If it's better, my average only goes up. So I've got an A
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0)
21:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 = 280.8
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> #g 280.8 - 358
21:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 280.8 - 358 = -77.2
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> er
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358-280.8
21:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 - 280.8 = 77.2
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that's the minimum score on the final that I need to get an A.
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> Since that is lower than my lowest test score otherwise, it doesn't matter, does it? :)
21:20 <n54> guess not :)
21:21 <wrtlprnft> guess so...
21:22 * n54 hopes guru3 isn't crushed by his exams either
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358 - 100 - 90
21:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 - 100 - 90 = 168
21:23 < Lucifer_arma> That's how many points I need in my government class to get an A, and that's divided amongst 3 scores
21:23 < Lucifer_arma> #g 168 / 3
21:23 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: 168 / 3 = 56
21:23 < Lucifer_arma> problem is, those three scores he hasn't bothered to tell us. One is a paper, one is "participation" based on attendance/actual participation, and the third is a test
21:24 < Lucifer_arma> hm
21:24 < Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5)
21:24 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: 5 * 89.5 = 447.5
21:24 < n54> probably because he wants you to do your best each time ;)
21:24 < Lucifer_arma> ah, much more reasonable. I thought that was something off. Ok...
21:24 < Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190
21:24 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 = 257.5
21:24 < Lucifer_arma> #g 257.5/3
21:24 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: 257.5 / 3 = 85.8333333
21:25 < Lucifer_arma> So I need an 85.8 average on remaining classwork. The thing that irks me is that I shouldn't have to guess at so many loose points when the semester's over.
21:25 < Lucifer_arma> The fucker slacked on grading the papers and our last test, so I had to take the optional final because I had no way to know what my grade was.
21:26 < Lucifer_arma> So there's 4 grades hanging loose, and one of them will be dropped. Anyway, I can't keep my mouth shut about politics, so it's probably a given I got an A for participation.
21:26 < Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95
21:26 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 = 162.5
21:26 < Lucifer_arma> #g 162.5/2
21:26 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: 162.5 / 2 = 81.25
21:27 < Lucifer_arma> My paper was perfect, except it was boring. but it was spell-checked, good grammar, etc. It was technically perfect, the only way he could *not* give it an A is because it's boring.
21:27 < Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 - 90
21:27 < armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 - 90 = 72.5
21:27 * )) Lucifer_armaSo I need somewhere around a low C on the leftover test, provided my assumptions hold out. But really, I just can't imagine *not* getting an A on a paper. :)
21:28 * )) Lucifer_armaok, now the painful one.
21:28 Lucifer_a)) #g 95 + 87 + 88 + 94
21:28 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 95 + 87 + 88 + 94 = 364
21:28 Lucifer_a)) #g 89.5 * 5
21:28 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 89.5 * 5 = 447.5
21:29 Lucifer_a)) #g 447.5 - 364
21:29 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 447.5 - 364 = 83.5
21:29 Lucifer_a)) So to get an A for my test average in calculus, I needed an 83.5 on the final, which I almost certainly got.
21:29 Lucifer_a)) Now here's the catch. That's 90% of the grade. The other 10% is homework.
21:30 Lucifer_a)) He hasn't handed it all back yet, mostly because we turned in the last group of homework today. I can't see what I turned in affecting my homework average at all, though.
21:31 Lucifer_a)) ok, call it somewhere around 30% to be really conservative.
21:31 )) Lucifer_armadepends entirely on how generous he was over late homework.
21:32 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * (95 + 87 + 88 + 94) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * (95 + 87 + 88 + 94)) + (0.1 * 30) = 330.6
21:32 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94)/4 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94) / 4)) + (0.1 * 30) = 84.9
21:32 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 90)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 90) / 5)) + (0.1 * 30) = 84.72
21:32 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 30) = 86.52
21:33 )) Lucifer_armait may not have even been possible for me to pull off an A. :(
21:33 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 88.52
21:33 )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:33 )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 91.02
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 89.24
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 86.9
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:33 armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.4
21:34 Lucifer_arma)) I think around a 75 is probably more realistic for my homework average, but I might get a B. :( That sucks.
21:34 *Lucifer_arma)) stops spamming with grade calculations
21:36 wrtlprnft)) no, that's fine with me, I'm testing IRC themes and can use that
21:36 Lucifer_arma)) heh, really, I'm done. This guy's good about getting tests graded and final averages computed, and I just emailed him, so I"ll have the information pretty quickly.
21:37 Lucifer_arma)) which reminds me, I need to email my government teacher to nag. I *know* I've got 2 A's so far, but there's still 2 classes I'm waiting to find out about.
21:39 )) So, I need to get at least a 75% on my homework average, which isn't guaranteed right now. Then I need to et all my corrections points for the third test, which I turned in today.
21:39 *THen*, even an 87 on the final isn't enough.
21:39 #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 89)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:39 Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 89) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.76
21:39 #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:39 okok, not I can't see any nicks
21:39 Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.58
21:40 ok, after those two assumptions, I can get an 88 on the final and get an A. It's pretty tight, so many things left. He'll probably email me with an 86 or something.
21:40 maybe he'll suddenly decides he likes me a lot and wiggle the numbers some in my favor. Not likely, though. He's not that kind of teacher. :)
21:41 <>problem is, change any of the two assumptions and my grade plummets. Plummets, I say!
21:42 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:42 <>cya guys
21:42 <>later
21:42 <>uh, guess so... no idea who said that
21:43 <>what a mess
21:43 <>that was SD|away
21:43 <>ah ok
21:43 <>feels like being in the dark
21:49 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:49 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.08
21:49 * n54 turns on the light
21:49 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 )
21:49 <> Lucifer_arma: 0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5) = 82.08
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+88)/2 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 88) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.17
21:51 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+90)/2 + 92 + 94 + 90)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 90) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 90) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.71
21:51 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+94)/2 + 92 + 94 + 94)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 94) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 94) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 89.79
21:52 <> haha
21:52 <> this is an optimization problem. I should work it out on paper, then I can model it properly. :)
21:53 <> test
21:53 <> where did the nicks go?...
21:53 <> brb
--- Log closed Thu May 11 21:53:45 2006
--- Log opened Thu May 11 21:54:01 2006
21:54 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:54 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:54 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
21:54 <> guess not...
21:58 < wrtlprnft> #echo test
21:58 < armabot> test
21:58 < wrtlprnft> looks like this works again, somehow
22:03 <wrtlprnft> #echo test
22:03 <armabot> test
Log from 2006-05-12:
--- Day changed Fri May 12 2006
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00:38 <n54> cya all
00:38 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
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03:13 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: The IRC chat is functional on nixda.net ?
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> he's asleep
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> I can't speak for my team at the moment, but personally I have no problems if you guys respawn in our place. :)
03:24 -!- Nixda434 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:24 -!- Nixda362 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:25 <Nixda362> test
03:25 <Nixda434> test
03:26 -!- Nixda612 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> testing, 1, 2, 3, testing
03:26 -!- blubs [n=543db226@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:26 <Nixda612> :)
03:26 <Nixda612> Using http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi to login ;)
03:26 * Nixda612 joda's PC Firefox web browser
03:26 -!- Nixda024 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:26 -!- bighil [n=543db226@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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03:27 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=3ff6b1e9@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:27 <Nixda362> 2
03:27 <Nixda612> 3
03:27 <Nixda024> 4
03:27 <Nixda224> 5
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> hello there, I'm a talking parrot
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> this is kinda neat, joda
03:28 <joda_bot> :)
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> LuciEatsPeople: does this highlight?
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> LuciEatsPeople: does this?
03:28 <joda_bot> Not my work, just decided to change the channel to free node to see if it works
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting nasty latency, though. It still says "Transferring data from..."
03:29 <joda_bot> freenode is very generous with the number of connections from one IP
03:29 <joda_bot> not sure might be the bot protection kicked in
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> there are a lot of Nixda's on
03:30 <joda_bot> All mine ;)
03:30 <joda_bot> so I guess they all got disconnected or silenced
03:31 <joda_bot> ok, irc.freenode.org resolves to multiple servers ;)
03:31 <joda_bot> that's why it might have taken more sessions to kick in
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> no, I think your bot protection hypothesis is probably right
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, you're right about irc.freenode.org resolving to multiple servers, too, but it's probably bot protection that's kicked in
03:32 <joda_bot> hehe, or the cgi script got a time limit like php ;)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. Are your Nixda's responding?
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Welcome to CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Looking up irc.freenode.net
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Connecting to irc.freenode.net [213.92.8.4] port 6666
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname, welcome back
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Checking ident
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> it could just be bandwidth-across-the-pond problems, I have those on a lot of european webservers
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** No identd (auth) response
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Nickname Nixda434 is already in use, type /nick newnick to use another.
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Closing Link 127.0.0.1 (Connection Timed Out)
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Disconnected from IRC (type /reconnect to connect again)
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03:33 <Nixda435> hm ok...
03:33 <Nixda435> let's see when this timeouts
03:34 <joda_bot> test
03:34 <joda_bot> ok, now it's pretty fast and live
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03:35 <zmaniac> really neat
03:35 <joda_bot> :)
03:35 <Nixda435> ok, up to now ... he's still here
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03:35 <Nixda435> 1
03:36 <joda_bot> about two minutes ...
03:36 <joda_bot> I wrote 2 but it did not get through
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. I closed the tab for LuciEatsPeople because it wasn't responding to my other clicks anymore. Can you boot him somehow from your end?
03:36 <joda_bot> perhaps it's 2:30 cgi script time
03:36 <joda_bot> good question
03:37 <Nixda434> 1
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03:38 <joda_bot> guess they just timeout
03:38 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=3ff6b1e9@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> that's what it looks like
03:38 <joda_bot> the perl scripts were still running
03:38 <joda_bot> without their apache session
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's also the cgi script doing the timing out, not freenode
03:39 <joda_bot> yeah, it's the apache killing the cgi
03:39 <joda_bot> the perl script that is called by the cgi was still running
03:39 <joda_bot> that's why they did not exist right away
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03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 1
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 2
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 3
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 4
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 5
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 6
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> seems to be working ok now. I wonder if maybe it was just overloaded? :)
03:40 <joda_bot> just wait 2min before u start to count ;)
03:40 <joda_bot> no
03:40 <joda_bot> guess not
03:41 <joda_bot> just checking http://cvs.cgiirc.org/wiki?p=FrequentlyAskedQuestions
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, lost it now
03:42 <joda_bot> that was a short time ?
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> very short
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> lost it right before your "guess not" line, not even a minute there
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> I just hit the close button, I'm gonna just let it go and leave the tab open and see what happens
03:45 <Nixda435> 2
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03:47 <Lucifer_arma> aha, there's a javscript error
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> can't copy it from the javascript console, though. :(
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Error: xmlhttp is not defined
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Source File: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=mozilla&nick=LuciEatsPeople&R=vxevcl2ye&item=fwindowlist&style=mirc
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Line: 467
03:49 <joda_bot> I'll try to upgrade the scripts
03:49 <joda_bot> sec
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04:14 <Nixda681> ok
04:14 <Nixda681> let's see
04:14 <Nixda681> this stype is not really good ;)
04:15 <Nixda681> test
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04:16 <Nixda362> test 2
04:17 <joda_bot> Ok, this another response test
04:17 <Nixda362> I'm here
04:17 <Nixda681> I'm here too
04:17 <joda_bot> looks like it works now
04:27 <joda_bot> anohter test
04:27 <joda_bot> works
04:27 <joda_bot> fine
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04:39 <joda_bot> test
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05:44 <joda_bot> test
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06:04 <Nixda891> rwar
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06:18 -!- Nixda720 is now known as namechange
06:18 -!- namechange is now known as name
06:18 -!- name is now known as changedname
06:21 <changedname> armabot: test
06:21 <armabot> blah
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07:28 <joda_web> test message
07:28 <joda_web> argh still white ;)
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07:45 <wrtlprnft> joda_nixda: doesn't work for me... probably doesn't support opera :(
07:45 <joda_nixda> ah, what does it say ?
07:45 <joda_nixda> probably just have to hack the user agent detection
07:46 <joda_nixda> wrtlprnft: you need java script though
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07:55 <wrtlprnft> I have js on, of course. It connects me, but disconnects me before i can say anything
07:55 <joda_web> hmmmmm
07:56 <joda_bot> What's the user agent it sends ?
07:56 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ?
07:56 <wrtlprnft> g2g, back in a few minutes from school
07:57 <wrtlprnft> [HTTP_USER_AGENT] => Opera/9.00 (X11; Linux i686; U; en)
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10:32 <wrtl_web> test
10:32 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i can send messages now, it seems
10:32 <wrtlprnft> but i don't see the replies ;)
10:34 <wrtl_web> either it still doesn't like opera, or it doesn't like my hackish php script that allows me to see this site at all (it's blocked from school)
10:37 -!- wrtl_links2 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
10:38 <wrtl_links2> wow, it works with links2?
10:38 <wrtlprnft> test
10:38 <wrtl_web> test
10:39 * wrtlprnft quits spamming
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11:07 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: yes
11:08 <philippeqc> hi
11:14 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: I guess the problem with opera is the detection
11:14 <joda_bo1> it uses something like window.opera on the login screen to determine the browser
11:14 <joda_bo1> Can you try to manually pass it the browser type and see if it works then
11:14 <joda_bo1> ?
11:15 * joda_bo1 wonders why it's not the same for javascript and non javascript browsers ;)
11:30 -!- joda_opera [n=543d41d9@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:31 <joda_opera> hi
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11:34 <mkzelda> hi
11:35 <philippeqc> hi
11:35 * joda_opera test
11:35 * mkzelda test
11:36 <joda_bo1> mkzelda: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi
11:36 <joda_bo1> ;)
11:36 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as joda_bot
11:40 -!- mkz3lda [n=41be9b88@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:40 * mkz3lda test
11:41 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: I'll try when i'm at home
11:41 <wrtlprnft> opera can cloak itself :)
11:43 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: whatever you did both versions worked for me ... "opera7" support with channel frame, and "opera" (guess it's pre 7) with a single window for server messages and chat
11:44 <wrtlprnft> opera 7? that's stone age ;)
11:44 <wrtlprnft> current the current version is 8.0 and 9 is a beta version
11:46 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=opera&submit=Login&Nickname=opera_test
11:46 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=opera7&submit=Login&Nickname=opera_test
11:46 <wrtlprnft> weird typing... very laggy for me right now, sorry
11:46 <wrtlprnft> I can't really test it from here
11:47 <wrtlprnft> that site is blocked as web site hosting and if I use some detour i can't be sure if it's just the script i use for that
11:52 <mkz3lda> works fine for me
11:53 <joda_bot> :)
11:53 <joda_bot> I'll talk to tank to add this app to armagetronad.net ;)
11:54 <joda_bot> guru3: how about that for armagetronad.net ? http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi
11:55 -!- Nixda211 [n=51e7e65f@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:55 <Nixda211> well
11:55 <Nixda211> the issue is
11:55 <Nixda211> that i don't have cgi enabled on my server
11:55 <Nixda211> ;)
11:55 -!- Nixda211 [n=51e7e65f@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
11:55 <joda_bot> :)
11:55 <guru3> but it is cool
11:56 <joda_bot> guru3: me neither ... just used .htaccess to enable it
11:57 <guru3> no i mean it's well disabled
11:57 <guru3> everything in apache2.conf that has to do with it
11:57 <guru3> is commented out
11:58 <wrtlprnft> why not just link to it?
11:58 <guru3> good question
11:59 <joda_opera> guru3: I'm happy to provide a back link too...
11:59 <guru3> you can't really avoid a backlink you know ;)
11:59 <joda_opera> This also might help to direct german people to nixda and english to armagetronad.net (for forums?)
12:00 <guru3> yeah
12:00 <joda_opera> ... and nixda will get a new forum ... sometime in june (I hope)
12:00 <guru3> http://armagetronad.net/links.php
12:00 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong witn that one?
12:00 <guru3> you're there under server sites at least :
12:00 <guru3> :0
12:00 <joda_opera> nothing wrong with it ;)
12:01 <joda_opera> Nixda only has die-hard forum users right now ... because it's too messed up
12:01 <joda_opera> but I'm slowy rebuilding it with a few other admins, though it's my iniative otherwise it would have gone
12:01 <guru3> it is neat
12:02 <wrtlprnft> well, i have to admit that I don't read or post on it because there's forums.armagetronad.net and there's more activity ;)
12:02 <joda_opera> yes, and that won't change I hope
12:03 <joda_opera> As armagetronad.net aims for devs, pros and english ppl - I try to get noobs and germans for nixda ;)
12:03 <joda_opera> which can later be upgraded or migrated to armagetronad ;)
12:03 <wrtlprnft> I also have to admit that being in canada for two thirds of a year now I feel more comfortable writing english than germen ;)
12:03 <joda_opera> How did you end up in canada anyway ?
12:03 <wrtlprnft> international student
12:04 <joda_opera> of ?
12:04 <wrtlprnft> which means that I'll be back home in two months
12:04 <joda_opera> ah ok, so it's just a student exchange semester / year ?
12:04 <joda_opera> lol, been using the web part without noticing
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12:05 <guru3> lol
12:06 <wrtlprnft> Austauyes it is
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12:06 <wrtlprnft> ?
12:06 <wrtlprnft> *yes it is
12:06 <wrtlprnft> that connection sucks
12:06 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ?
12:07 <wrtlprnft> g2g school
12:08 <philippeqc> see ya
12:08 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: i'm on a ssh connection from school to mz computer at home
12:17 <philippeqc> Wow, its the second time this week I manage to fix a C++ (really big) problem all by myself, without needing external help!
12:17 <philippeqc> I must be doing something right
12:51 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: can't wait to see what you've got ;)
12:51 <wrtlprnft> but take your time, i don't want to push you in any way
12:52 <philippeqc> well frankly, I've moved my development out of the code. ie: it goes faster to debug it, and as I work on the tip of my understanding of C++, that really helps. But I actually manage quite ok
12:53 <philippeqc> Now I'm still doing the Sets operations (Union, intersection, Difference) for the Col.
12:53 <wrtlprnft> so you made your own project? Well, would be too much work for me
12:53 <philippeqc> Col being a Base that hold a deque
12:53 <philippeqc> s/project/file
12:54 <wrtlprnft> ah ok. Whatever you like :)
12:54 <philippeqc> I'm still playing with the extention of tValue::Base
12:54 <philippeqc> once that is fixed, the rest will be much easier
12:55 <philippeqc> the position of a zone will be a cValue, so basic motion will be quite easy to fix
12:55 <wrtlprnft> still have to do that formula parser...
12:55 <wrtlprnft> kinda hard since I've got no idea where to start
12:56 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to split the forumula up into all its values and operators and then somehow order them to respect brackets and operator order
12:56 <philippeqc> it will come to you
12:56 * wrtlprnft hoes it will do so soon ;)
12:56 <wrtlprnft> *hopes
12:57 <philippeqc> yeah, but you still have some time. I'm not going as fast as I'd like ;)
12:58 <wrtlprnft> SF cvs is still down...
12:58 <wrtlprnft> and it is the end of the week, at least in germany
12:58 <philippeqc> ouch
12:58 <wrtlprnft> ouch?
12:58 <philippeqc> I havent been in need of it for a while, so I didnt notice
12:58 <philippeqc> ouch = pain expression in french
12:58 <wrtlprnft> oh. heh, it is down and annoying
12:59 <philippeqc> yes
12:59 <wrtlprnft> because if i commit my stuff once it's back up i don't know exactly what i did anymore
12:59 <wrtlprnft> so i can't easily write a good log entry
13:01 <philippeqc> lol
13:01 <philippeqc> better start reading your code now
13:01 <wrtlprnft> try doxygen ;)
13:01 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy
13:02 <wrtlprnft> should be reasonably up- to- date
13:02 <wrtlprnft> looks like the clock on my server is going 3s/day slower than the clock on my laptop...
13:02 <wrtlprnft> well, -300ms lag
13:03 <philippeqc> it is now in my bookmarks
13:03 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:03 <philippeqc> i should REALLY start to write some comments
13:03 <philippeqc> for my part
13:03 <wrtlprnft> you can just type make doxy if you want tyo have it locally ;)
13:04 <wrtlprnft> it gets generated in src/doc/doxygen/html;
13:05 <wrtlprnft> (ignore extra chars like ; and y, they get generated by tghis keyboardand that slow ssh connection)
13:05 <wrtlprnft> can't see my errors easily
13:05 <philippeqc> ok
13:06 <philippeqc> grrr, while does my child refuse to see the members of its parent
13:06 <wrtlprnft> happy family?
13:07 <philippeqc> lol
13:07 <philippeqc> I'll make them
13:08 <wrtlprnft> if you use template derivation it looks like you need to type Base<templateparams>::member
13:08 <wrtlprnft> no idea why, usually you should just be able to write the name of the member
13:08 * philippeqc slaps his forehead
13:09 <wrtlprnft> g2g again, have fun raising your family ;)
13:09 <philippeqc> lol I'll do
13:10 <philippeqc> thanks again
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14:10 <z-man-home> hooray, SF cvs is back!
14:10 <z-man-home> and it now allows rsync mirroring.
14:13 <n54> yay :)
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I don't. :)
14:54 <z-man-home> Looks like SF didn't manage to mangle our repository
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> that's good news
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=31070&group_id=1
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> looks like subversion is available for all projects now
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15:20 -!- joda_friends [n=577bae68@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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16:06 <wrtlprnft> guess i have to make a new checkout now?
16:09 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [",,,,"]
16:14 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co -P armagetronad
16:14 <wrtlprnft> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:14 <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:21 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
16:21 -!- Nixda828 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:21 <Nixda828> test
16:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtl_web: does that mean the repository doesn't exist at all anymore?
16:21 <Nixda828> now it works :)
16:22 <wrtlprnft> uh, i guess it still does, probably i'm doing something wrong
16:22 <Nixda828> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=110997
16:22 <Self_Destructo> umm, what time is the game?
16:22 <Nixda828> I'm doing exactly what that size says
16:22 <wrtlprnft> and that doesn't work
16:22 <wrtlprnft> it's tomorrow, 1PM -4PM CDT
16:22 <Nixda828> not exactly specified yet
16:22 <Self_Destructo> can't, sorry
16:22 <Nixda828> :(
16:23 <Nixda828> joda_bot: It's working fine now with opera, thanks :)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> it's moved, the path is different
16:23 <wrtlprnft> what is it then?
16:23 <wrtlprnft> i thought it was just the hostname, and their site says si
16:23 <wrtlprnft> *so
16:23 <wrtlprnft> Nixda828: test
16:24 <Nixda828> ah, nice, it gets hilighted
16:24 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec, why is wrtl_web still there?
16:25 <wrtlprnft> i closed that browser window about 3 hours ago
16:25 <wrtlprnft> and the computer i used is shut down now
16:26 -!- Nixda828 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["i was just testing anyways"]
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/docs/E04/#top
16:33 <wrtlprnft> which is exactly what i did
16:33 <wrtlprnft> -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad
16:35 <Gnorty> how do I download from CVS? I tried cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad login but it asks for password?
16:36 <wrtlprnft> at least it's not just me
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah it is, you guys are on crack
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> ok, for anonymous just hit enter for password
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d :ext:davidfancella@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I just used and got a checkout with it, no problem
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's obviously not anonymous cvs :)
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> Password: There is no password for anonymous CVS access (just hit the enter key when prompted for one). You must generate a SSH key for developer authentication.
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> -- Fromt the Fine Manual :)
16:38 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: can you try again and see if it still works?
16:38 <Gnorty> OK, so I did that and it LOOKS like nothing happened.
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> ? you mean right now? I just did it, trying to answer your question
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> there it goes again
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> you did generate an ssh key, right?
16:39 <wrtlprnft> very weird since it doesn't work for me
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if it'll still take passwords or now
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> *not
16:39 <wrtlprnft> uh, I have one for ages
16:39 <Gnorty> I am back to the $ prompt. nothing about downloads/connections/ anything
16:39 <wrtlprnft> *had
16:40 <wrtlprnft> trying to upload another one...
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> ping armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~/Projects/armagetronad$ ping armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> PING armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net (66.35.250.81) 56(84) bytes of data.
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from 1.cvs.sourceforge.net (66.35.250.81): icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=64.8 ms
16:40 <wrtlprnft> works just fine
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> now copy your whole command line to here
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> you too, Gnory
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> *Gnorty
16:41 * wrtlprnft already did
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, you only gave the part that says -d*blah*
16:42 <wrtlprnft> scroll up
16:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --with co
16:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:41:16] <Lucifer_arma> now copy your whole command line to here
16:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --with -P
16:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:14:47] <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co -P armagetronad
16:42 <Gnorty> I just did, but cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad login
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> space between -d and :ext:
16:43 <wrtlprnft> uh, no, there isn't one
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> put one?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> same error, of course
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: right, you've logged in. It's a two-step process. Now try the checkout command.
16:43 <wrtlprnft> same command, that space should be optional
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad <-- works after login
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> so the space is optional. I"ve had it bitch at me in the past for not putting the space there, though.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> well, thanks :) but it didn' help
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> I get a password prompt when I try your command line.
16:45 <Gnorty> $ checkout
16:45 <Gnorty> bash: checkout: command not found
16:45 <Gnorty> - like I said, back to command prompt after the password
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: I just gave you the command line to run after the login you ran.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> #last --with pserver
16:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [16:44:20] <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad <-- works after login
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: does anonymous cvs work for you?
16:46 <wrtlprnft> testing...
16:46 <Gnorty> downloading :)
16:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, same error
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's the error?
16:47 <wrtlprnft> posted above...
16:47 <wrtlprnft> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:47 <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> [04:14 pm] <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I found it, haha. :) Ok....
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> that means the path is wrong, but you are connecting
16:48 <wrtlprnft> uh, wait
16:48 * wrtlprnft smacks his head
16:48 <wrtlprnft> I executed that command within the build dir of my old checkout
16:49 <wrtlprnft> that is armagetronad/build2... looks like it got confused by that
16:50 <wrtlprnft> thanks for the help :)
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> anytime :)
16:50 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:50 <ghableska> Hi.
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> is anonymous cvs still on a 5 hour delay?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> no idea
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm asking because I can probably fix that a bit when I get the cronjob going on my server to backup the repo.
16:51 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:51 <wrtlprnft> well, how often are you gonna run that cronjob?
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> if we wanted to use it for testers, I'd run it at whatever interval y'all wanted it to run at. rsync doesn't use hardly any bandwidth when you do it right, which sourceforge is forcing me to do. :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> can you make it "on command"?
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> so I would run it even at 2-minute intervals. I think 1 minute might be too often, I'd wind up with concurrent and conflicting tasks.
16:53 <wrtlprnft> like, put some CGI script on your web server that causes an update
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> don't know. Can I? ;)
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> I could do that
16:53 <wrtlprnft> then you can run it daily and tell the testers that they have to use that URL first
16:53 <wrtlprnft> and of course make a time check so you can only call it every 10 minutes or se
16:53 <wrtlprnft> so
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> it should be more often just so testers can test immediately, but not so often that rsync will wind up running 5-6 times and clobbering each other's work. :)
16:54 <wrtlprnft> should be possible... make the script setuid to some cvs user account that has access to your key and local repository copy
16:55 <wrtlprnft> then make it every 2 minutes... but i wouldn't say more often
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> that part's easy. It would be particularly nice if I could just run a pserver here and have it fetch from rsync whenever someone asks for it.
16:55 <wrtlprnft> that would be an idea as well
16:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe some inetd thingy?
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> but I think people would be happy with a "click this button" solution too
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> can inetd do that? I know inetd is required to get the pserver thing going
16:56 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it doesn't matter if sourceforge's anonymous servers are no longer behind
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, not another jesus lover
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you'll have to register to get /msg commands and stuff. It's not terribly difficult, though.
16:57 <GodTodd> like registering the nick, you mean?
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. There's a message when you join the network that tells you how to do it, or at least the web page you need to go to to see it.
16:57 <wrtlprnft> just talk through armabot?
16:57 <GodTodd> yep did it
16:58 <GodTodd> and if you're referring to me as a jesus lover....not just no but hell no ;)
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:58 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: does armabot accept chats from unregistered people?
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: it takes whatever freenode takes. So a previously unknown user to armabot can commune with her in private
16:59 * Lucifer_arma has decided armabot is a she
16:59 <wrtlprnft> you can send some message to nickserv so you get messages from users not registered to it
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he did it already.
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> er
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute
17:00 * wrtlprnft did it too
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> different thing. YOu can? I dont' know that I want armabot to do that, though. :)
17:00 -!- You're now known as wrtl_noreg
17:00 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:01 <n54> I wouldn't :)
17:01 <n54> (want that)
17:01 <wrtlprnft> if you think so...
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> gotta pee gotta pee gotta pee pee pee
17:04 <n54> hehe
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm....... even if the anonymous cvs mirrors are on a delay, is the rsync mirror the same cvsroot that we use, or is it the same one the anonymous servers use?
17:05 <n54> hey! you didn't wash your hands! :o
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> did too!
17:06 <n54> hehe :D
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> I washed them with piss.
17:06 <n54> yuckkk
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:06 <n54> :)
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> c'mon man, it's the Viking Way, isn't it?
17:06 <n54> no lol
17:07 <n54> pissing in wounds == good thing, pissing on hands == bad thing <-- very simple really :)
17:07 <GodTodd> what if the wound is on your hand?
17:07 <n54> hmm not critical, but hey if you really want to... :)
17:09 * n54 picks up the conversation and puts it back on the tracks: CVS
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> so how do we find out if the rsync daemon is on project cvs services or anonymous?
17:13 <wrtlprnft> grr now i have to find out which files I changed
17:13 <wrtlprnft> who needs an rsync daemon?
17:14 <wrtlprnft> rsync is like scp, all you need is ssh access
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> sourceforge's rsync daemon
17:14 <wrtlprnft> does it have one�
17:14 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47423#47423 <-- I'm working on this post, actually
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> grr. now I have the same choice I had two nights ago. Do I take a dump and then wash dishes, or wash dishes and then take a dump?
17:16 <n54> same answer; always take the dump first
17:16 <wrtlprnft> other way this time for a change?
17:16 * n54 wonders what Lucifer would do without the help of irc :)
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> the advantage is the urgency caused by having to take a dump, I'll get the dishes done faster
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:16 <n54> :)
17:16 <guru3> mix it up
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok, washing dishes.
17:16 <guru3> take a dump WHILE washing dishes!
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh. my underwear's not big enough for that.
17:17 <guru3> :o
17:17 <wrtlprnft> oh SHIT
17:17 <n54> wash dishes in the nude?
17:17 <GodTodd> i do dishes while taking a dump...i love the dishwasher ;)
17:17 <wrtlprnft> I just deleted all my work, it seems
17:18 <guru3> oops?
17:18 <guru3> i hate it when that happens :/
17:18 <n54> same here GodTodd
17:18 <joda_bot> wrtl_web: does it work ?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> noooooooooooooooo
17:18 <wrtlprnft> now I'm mad
17:18 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: now it works, yes
17:19 <wrtlprnft> but wrtl_web is a zombie
17:19 <n54> instead of just in54ne?
17:19 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec
17:19 <wrtlprnft> i rsynced my home directory to my server yesterday
17:19 * wrtlprnft smiles
17:20 <wrtlprnft> it was just runnining another rsync, but it looks like it didn't reach my mess yet
17:21 <joda_bot> does anyone know a way to contact whatup ?
17:21 <wrtlprnft> uh... catch him on fortress?
17:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has left #armagetron []
17:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
17:21 <joda_bot> Because he asked to play for the 8th, and as CT objects us playing any further spoon match (until it's done) ... we'll just do a friendship match vs. MBC
17:22 <joda_bot> heh right he's on ;)
17:22 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:22 * wrtlprnft praises armaspy
17:25 <wrtlprnft> phew. my files are back and saved :)
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> didn't make it
17:31 <guru3> good night ya'll
17:31 <wrtlprnft> night guru3
17:31 <n54> night guru3
17:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:43 <Gnorty> joda- I think he lives on CVS
17:44 <Gnorty> can someone explain how to compile CVS? I downloaded, but usually ./configure, but seems not to be there
17:45 <Gnorty> and /doc/html is not present
17:48 <wrtlprnft> use ./bootstrap.sh
17:48 <wrtlprnft> and then ./configure
17:49 <Gnorty> :)
17:50 <wrtlprnft> took me a while to figure out as well
17:50 <Gnorty> now to install GLU :(
17:50 <wrtlprnft> GLU?
17:50 <Gnorty> You need GLU to compile Armagetron; it SHOULD have come with OpenGL.
17:50 <wrtlprnft> well then
17:51 <n54> just don't sniff it!
17:51 <wrtlprnft> install opengl-dev
17:51 <Gnorty> also SDL_mixer library not found. You will not hear music
17:51 <wrtlprnft> and install sdl-dev
17:51 <Gnorty> in the process :)
17:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:51 <wrtlprnft> and install ftgl, before you ask ;)
17:52 <Gnorty> ftgl?
17:52 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:52 <Gnorty> whassat?
17:53 <wrtlprnft> it should complain if you have a somewhat recent version of arma and don't have ftgl installed
17:53 <wrtlprnft> font library
17:53 <Gnorty> ah, kk
17:53 <wrtlprnft> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/henryj/code/index.html#FTGL
17:53 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't complain chances are that anonymous CVS is messed up
17:54 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> dishes = done
17:55 <n54> dump = ?
17:55 <Gnorty> seeing if it is in the distro atm
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> and I was right, I did 90% of my dishes while the dump was teasing my rectum
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> dump = done, too. Interupted dish-washing
17:55 <n54> don't go brokeback mountain on us! just go to the loo :D
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> what distro, Gnorty?
17:55 <Gnorty> fedora
17:56 * Lucifer_arma was happy to see ftgl with Kubuntu :)
17:57 <wrtlprnft> note: do backups, kids. they do come handy sometimes :)
17:57 <Gnorty> you like ubuntu luci? I couldn't get on with it
17:57 <n54> kftgl you mean? ;P
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> Rsync access to the developer CVS content is provided, allowing projects and other users direct access to the raw CVS repository data, much like the deprecated nightly tarball service. The use of rsync means that there will no longer be a delay between what is in the repository and the data that a user can download for backups or major code refactoring.
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like ubuntu, I'm using kubuntu. :)
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> I know, the only difference is KDE vs GNOME, but man does GNOME suck or what?
17:58 <wrtlprnft> as i said already, my only try with (k)ubuntu doesn't exactly make me wanna try again
17:58 <n54> I used to use gnome when I had redhat running in ancient times I tried it again something like two years ago and since then I don't want to look
17:59 <n54> and I didn't like ubuntu or kubuntu either
17:59 <wrtlprnft> the setup hang for full 4 minutes as it tried to DHCP with both network cards, not interruptable, setting up the network without DHCP was a pain, and it didn't have a GUI at all for proxy settings
17:59 <Gnorty> I thought too much hassle to install servers on ubuntu. I guess HUman beigs are not meant to go for that stuff
17:59 <wrtlprnft> i manually had to google to get apt-get to use the proxy
18:00 <Gnorty> but IIRC it was where I first found arma, so not all bad
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, how long ago was all this? My own switch is fairly recent, and I didn't have any of the problems you guys had.
18:01 <wrtlprnft> that has half a year ago
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> can't forget, this stuff improves quickly, so even a 6-month-old impression is old.
18:01 <Gnorty> mine was maybe a year back?
18:01 <n54> probably at least a year ago since I tried k/ubuntu (both)
18:01 <Gnorty> hoary or breezy, whichever was first
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.......
18:01 <n54> hoary here iirc
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> that reminds me I needed to post that the wiki's going down soon for a little bit.
18:01 <wrtlprnft> there was absolutely no useful documentation on configuring apt-get, i ended up using google on some debian site
18:02 <Gnorty> luci - you have apache/php/mysql working?
18:02 <wrtlprnft> do you use kubuntu or gentoo now for the server?
18:02 <Gnorty> I guess you do, but I had real problems with it
18:03 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, committed the updated font and support for different aspect ratios in the cockpit
18:03 <wrtlprnft> it just squishes everything to fit, but keeps the aspect ratio of the font
18:04 <wrtlprnft> I'll probably change it again at some time so it squishes all gauges but keeps the aspect ratio of the individual gauges
18:04 * wrtlprnft has to learn some proper grammar
18:04 <n54> and then the same for the bikes/arena?
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> the server is still on Mandriva 10.1
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I'll test it in a little bit.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> um, any reason we didn't ask tank to boot wrtl_web when he was here?
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Can you kick wrtl_web when you get a chance? It's a zombie...
18:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: with Mandriva packages, getting apache/php/mysql working was just a matter of installing them. I had more trouble with kubuntu doing the same thing, now I use XAMPP for that sort of work.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> I don't use XAMPP on a server, of course, only for development, which is what I do on my Kubuntu box anyway.
18:07 * Lucifer_arma whistles
18:07 <wrtlprnft> why is that guy still on anyways?
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet if joda_bot restarts his apache server, the zombie will be killed
18:08 <wrtlprnft> probably my antiproxy script is still connected to joda's server
18:08 <n54> he's dining on the lurkers wrtlprnft :)
18:08 * wrtlprnft restarts his server
18:09 <Gnorty> ^ what I said. back in the day, when I used redhat/debian it was easy - worked out of the box. somehow, easy linux distros made it hard! It is not so bad with fedora
18:09 -!- wrtl_web [n=55e92016@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
18:09 <wrtlprnft> there we go
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> ah, the difference for me with Kubuntu wasn't that they made it hard, it was that they didn't use the insecure default settings Mandriva used. :)
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> I had the same problems in a newer version of Mandriva, it's basically a problem not yet solved by the underlying projects, or the distro hasn't completely assimilated changes of the underlying projects
18:10 <n54> any of you tried lighttpd?
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> I anticipate having the same problems with apache when I get the gentoo server up and running, and I'll just have to deal with it. That's a production server, no fooling around.
18:10 <Gnorty> I tried mandriva for about an hour. forget what I didnt like about it, I think I was trying to install on a tricky laptop that mandrake was a breeze on, and it didnt work so got binned
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I haven't. I want to contribute my share to apache's web dominance. :)
18:11 <n54> hehe all right :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> mandriva/mandrake has always been hit and miss on laptops. :) Kubuntu went on this one pretty easily.
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> Mandriva didn't go on so easily, though.
18:12 <Gnorty> my laptop has 1024x600 screen, and needs a manual edit of xorg.conf normally.
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's funky. Hey, test wrtl's changes to the cockpit coordinate system. :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> this one runs 1280x800, and Mandriva didn't like that. Needed to hack xorg.conf...
18:12 <Gnorty> I dont mind working from the console, but bashing away on the console trying to get things running at all is just painful
18:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: does it work?
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> A newer Mandriva handled it, but I switched to Kubuntu which also handled it nicely, and had a package in their repo for the nvidia driver to boot.
18:13 <Gnorty> Luci - I am looking to do just that :)
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: don't know, I'm kinda fucking off. Let me grab a smoke and then I'll test it.
18:13 <wrtlprnft> ok
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i thought you just tested
18:13 <wrtlprnft> it
18:13 * wrtlprnft got something wrong, wrtlprnft guesses
18:15 <Gnorty> note to self: installing libraries as a normal user is not best
18:15 <n54> what are you running Gnorty?
18:15 <Gnorty> ??
18:15 <Gnorty> distro?
18:15 <n54> os-wise
18:15 <n54> yes
18:15 <Gnorty> fedora
18:15 <n54> oh ok
18:16 * n54 was just curious
18:16 <Gnorty> of all the "human friendly" OS's it is about the most like the old school. the old school ones are either too hardcore, too commercial or too political these days
18:17 <Gnorty> dunno about SuSe, havent looked at that for ages
18:19 <n54> me neither, and as to political stuff I have three options I rotate between; let it amuse me, ignore it, or agree with whatever detail fits me :)
18:21 <Gnorty> all the proprietory format crap is kinda hard to ignore.
18:22 <n54> yes I agree with Stallman etc. on most of that stuff
18:22 <n54> or did you mean it the other way around?
18:23 <Gnorty> I mean I want to play .mp3, .qt, .wmv .ra
18:23 <Gnorty> I dont really care for the politics of why not
18:23 <wrtlprnft> a distro that can't play mp3 is useless. DOT.
18:23 <Gnorty> I kind of understand the legalities
18:23 <n54> ok by me I view those thigns as personal decisions
18:23 <n54> things*
18:24 <Gnorty> but dislike all the "we wont include it because there is no source"
18:24 <n54> even though I wouldn't use it myself
18:24 <Gnorty> wrtl - exactly
18:24 <wrtlprnft> but i don't want DRM for linux either
18:24 <n54> well that's for the developers to decide really imo, some do incorporate it, some don't
18:25 <Gnorty> playing is not so hard, but trying to rip from CDs? HA!!
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> #last --with davidfancella
18:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [16:37:36] <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d :ext:davidfancella@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad
18:25 <Gnorty> ogg is better IMO, but my portable wont polay it, neither will my car, so I need MP3
18:25 <wrtlprnft> well, i don't think there will ever be opensource DRM playing software maintained by the people who sell those things ;)
18:26 <Gnorty> n54 agreed re developers, but what of distros that include the package, but not the plugins?
18:27 <Gnorty> tthat pisses me off
18:27 <Gnorty> grrrrrrrrrrrr
18:27 <Gnorty> ^ see?
18:27 <n54> well that's usually because of conflict of copyright yes?
18:27 <Gnorty> yes
18:27 <n54> so it's not like it's the distros fault
18:28 * n54 can't believe he's defending linux ;)
18:28 <Gnorty> some distros will risk it, others wont
18:29 <wrtlprnft> you could just make the CD without mp3 support, but put a big button on the desktop that downloads the necessary packages from the internet and installs them
18:29 <n54> lame is ok imo
18:29 <n54> I even use lame on windows
18:32 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: hehe fell into my Player 1- server trap?
18:32 <wrtlprnft> and i got a spammer as well :o
18:33 <Gnorty> wrtl - :) what I think. why force users to switch to unsupported repos? they should either just say "liinux is just for geeks" and leave it be, or else make it OK for Joe Public. This half way shit is useless
18:33 <wrtlprnft> i thought the only point was that they don't wanna put mp3 support on GPL CDs?
18:34 <Gnorty> no, there is also legal issues
18:34 <n54> that's the deal with _all_ proprietary formats; legal issues, and it's not much the devs can do about it really
18:34 <Gnorty> debian is pretty tight on GPL, fair enough, that is debians policy, but redhat was always less fussy
18:35 <n54> at least not right there and then
18:36 <Gnorty> surely if winamp can do it for free, it must be possible to distribute on linux
18:37 <wrtlprnft> when will that mp3 patent expire?
18:38 <n54> heh for free to the end user doesn't mean it's really free
18:38 <n54> many years into the future
18:39 <Gnorty> no, I appreciate that, but how does winamp pay? not some guy with a panchant for programming and a pocket full of cash for licenses
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: it works, but shouldn't they be short and fat, not tall and skinny?
18:39 <n54> I don't know the details of german patent expirations, but I would still think that it's many years away
18:39 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: can you give me a screenshot
18:39 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:39 <wrtlprnft> I didn't really test it because i have some normal screen resolution :)
18:39 <n54> winamp = nullsoft = aol (might have changed recently)
18:40 <wrtlprnft> IIRC the mp3 patent isn't valid in germany, but i might be wrong
18:40 <n54> and note that playback of mp3 doesn't neccessitate holding a license (hence lame) and note that playback winamp has always been free
18:41 <n54> hmm I doubt that wrtlprnft but perhaps you're right
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47435#47435 <--- screenshot of aspect ratio thingee
18:43 <wrtlprnft> hmm. that map is funny...
18:43 <wrtlprnft> maybe i mixed up the height and width parameters
18:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: committed a fix, try again
18:49 <n54> nice story: http://www.365tomorrows.com/05/03/mrs-lansing-and-the-school-of-humans/
18:52 <wrtlprnft> interesting
18:52 <wrtlprnft> but i wonder how to create web pages without a program
18:53 <n54> yeah some of the stuff on that site is really good (and some of it not so good of course)
18:53 <n54> notepad or similar :)
18:53 <wrtlprnft> like, would you open the harddrive and use a tiny bagnet?
18:53 <n54> hehe
18:53 <wrtlprnft> *magnet
19:00 <Gnorty> that story was written by a fuckwit
19:01 <n54> lol why do say that?
19:01 <n54> do you*
19:01 <Gnorty> because clearly who wrote it didnt have a clue.
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> that looks right
19:01 <Gnorty> they just thought it was some cool hacker shit to write
19:02 <n54> hmm I you must be reading it differently than me
19:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it should be exactly a square now
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: the cockpit looks right now, no disappearing gauges, the map looks square. :)
19:02 <n54> I think*
19:02 <Gnorty> I would punch mrs lancing in the tit if she slapped me in the head
19:02 <wrtlprnft> the HUD map will now have exactly the proportions of the big map
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> right, and then fuck her up the ass!
19:03 <Gnorty> and say "get a fucking clue biznatch"
19:03 <wrtlprnft> that means if you make the height of your map in the xml file bigger than the width, a square map will still be square
19:03 <Gnorty> "this is the fucking welcome page for the webserver I wrote."
19:03 <wrtlprnft> but a map that is higher than wide will have more room
19:05 <Gnorty> duno if I would fuck her up the ass though. she sounds like she migh tbe a bit leathery
19:06 <mkzelda> lol i just got kicked from CVS
19:06 <mkzelda> everyone saying 'holes are gay' so i said 'girls are for fags' and i got kicked
19:06 <wrtlprnft> for what?
19:06 <wrtlprnft> wow
19:06 <wrtlprnft> that server gets worse every day
19:07 <Gnorty> all these people saying holes are gay
19:07 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: had fun being Player 1 once again?
19:07 <mkzelda> full boat of people all believed that was the best course of action
19:07 <mkzelda> yea
19:07 <Gnorty> but where is the fortress server with no holes?
19:07 <mkzelda> but now my client keeps reverting to player 1 on its own
19:07 <mkzelda> heh
19:08 <mkzelda> since i joined crazy lines
19:08 <Gnorty> crazy lines sucks. does it fuck your client also?
19:08 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: the player 1 sticks?!
19:08 <mkzelda> it forces my player name to player1 after i leave and i have a lot of problems w/ settings not saving when i exit the client
19:09 <wrtlprnft> uh, that shouldn't happen
19:09 <mkzelda> my trail color changed from orange to red too
19:09 <wrtlprnft> what happens in single player mode?
19:09 <wrtlprnft> yes, that's intended
19:09 <mkzelda> well now its forced red, i must go change it
19:10 <wrtlprnft> but it should stay orange if you change it
19:10 <wrtlprnft> unless you join that server again
19:10 <mkzelda> yea, i just havent changed it all yet
19:10 <mkzelda> cause i usually join fortres so it doesnt matter
19:10 <wrtlprnft> i'm not as evil as i could be ;) that server could reset all your instant chat keys if it wanted
19:11 <mkzelda> hah
19:11 <mkzelda> the devil on my shoulder really wants to abuse that
19:11 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:12 <mkzelda> but the lazy bastard on my other shoulder doesnt wanna do anything
19:12 <wrtlprnft> if you want to abuse it, just tell everyone how great that server is and that they really have to try it out
19:12 <mkzelda> that could be the content of the instachats
19:12 <wrtlprnft> riight
19:13 <wrtlprnft> i could set all instant chat keys to "joun crazy lines server, it's sooo much fun!"
19:13 <wrtlprnft> *join
19:13 <wrtlprnft> then I'd get free advertising everywhere
19:14 <Gnorty> <!-- Hi there. Glad you found this. It hopefully won't be -->
19:14 <Gnorty> <!-- possible for long, so don't eve bother trying :D -->
19:14 <Gnorty> will work until all clients upgrade
19:14 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: u did see CT ed's response ?
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: CT vs. SS is on monday 15.05. btw
19:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes, guess it'll be a friendship game :)
19:14 <joda_bot> just saw that on the ct forums
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: fine for me
19:14 <Gnorty> wrtl - can it change keybindings?
19:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: no, don't think so
19:15 <joda_bot> ok gn8
19:15 <wrtlprnft> night
19:15 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:15 <mkzelda> my clients rarely exit cleanly when i exit a server
19:15 <mkzelda> so it loses any settings
19:16 <wrtlprnft> mine too... some bug i guess
19:16 <mkzelda> yea i figured it was common cause i run several machines and it happens on all
19:16 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: looks like it can change keybindings after all
19:16 <mkzelda> its been happening since around march or so
19:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah, me too. not my fault i think. i didn't have lots of things in CVS HEAD back then
19:18 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i could change all keys to one single instant chat key... but that would be too evil
19:19 <n54> perhaps one should just leave it be, great way for people to make themselves disliked?
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> mine crashes when I leave a server
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> pretty annoying :(
19:24 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:24 -!- spider is now known as spidey
19:25 <n54> cya all
19:25 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
19:31 <spidey> sd?
19:32 <spidey> what time wrtl?
19:35 <Self_Destructo> it's 7:35pm here
19:35 <Self_Destructo> spidey: ^^
19:35 <spidey> no
19:35 <spidey> i ment the spoon
19:35 <spidey> which i realized i missed
19:35 <spidey> >.>
19:36 <spidey> hey Self_Destructo,how many IPM's would it take to destroy this
19:36 <spidey> Rocket Launcher 285 Light Laser 414
19:36 <spidey> Gauss Cannon 30 Ion Cannon 23
19:36 <spidey> Plasma Turret 8 Small Shield Dome 1
19:36 <spidey> Large Shield Dome 1
19:37 <Self_Destructo> 1 specifically for the large shield dome normally...
19:38 <Self_Destructo> 1 per ~80 light lasers - just from my own experience
19:38 <spidey> k
19:38 <spidey> if i can get that defense down by half
19:38 <spidey> i can beat the rest easily
19:38 <spidey> without losing ships
19:39 <Self_Destructo> man, what's your fleet?
19:39 <Self_Destructo> I'm building a fllet on every planet
19:39 <spidey> well,i'll lose lightfighters,but they don't count :p
19:39 <Self_Destructo> good sized ones too
19:39 <spidey> Light Fighter 50 max
19:39 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 20 max
19:39 <spidey> Cruiser 9 max
19:39 <spidey> Battleship 5 max
19:39 <Self_Destructo> no kidding
19:39 <spidey> Light Fighter 50 max
19:39 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 20 max
19:39 <spidey> Cruiser 9 max
19:39 <spidey> Battleship 5 max
19:39 <spidey> first planert
19:40 <spidey> Light Fighter 249 max
19:40 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 20 max
19:40 <spidey> Cruiser 10 max
19:40 <spidey> second planet
19:40 <spidey> and some building
19:40 <Self_Destructo> 249 light fighters :O
19:40 <spidey> :)
19:40 <Self_Destructo> a guy has to fllet save something that big
19:40 <spidey> got 1 light fighter
19:41 <spidey> and 5 heavy building on the second planet
19:41 <spidey> and 3 bombers on the first
19:41 <Self_Destructo> see
19:41 <Self_Destructo> i got...
19:41 <Self_Destructo> how many planets you got?
19:41 <spidey> 5
19:41 <Self_Destructo> i got 7 now..
19:41 <spidey> cool
19:41 <Self_Destructo> fixing to get rid of a small one if I get a bif one here in a bit
19:42 <Self_Destructo> that will smack my points for sure
19:42 <spidey> my sister planet
19:42 <spidey> is almost outta feilds
19:42 <spidey> Diameter 10368 km (96 / 107 fields)
19:42 <Self_Destructo> uhmm... I got... fleetwise...
19:42 <spidey> the rest have 177 fields
19:42 <Self_Destructo> this is total...
19:43 <spidey> k
19:43 <Self_Destructo> 14 large cargos
19:43 <Self_Destructo> probably about 120 espianage probes
19:43 <spidey> llol
19:43 <spidey> i had to send 30 to get a full report off that one guy
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 20 light fighters
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 27 heavy
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 10 battleships...
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 12? cruisers
19:45 <Self_Destructo> 3 bombers
19:45 <Self_Destructo> i lost about 50 lightfighters and 12 cruisers in a big attack
19:45 <spidey> ouch
19:45 <spidey> total i have
19:45 <Self_Destructo> and I got a little aggreavated becuase it still ended in a draw
19:46 <Self_Destructo> Oh, well, I'll hit him again pretty quick
19:46 <spidey> 300 light fighters
19:46 <spidey> 45 havy
19:46 <spidey> 19 cruisers
19:46 <spidey> 5 battleships
19:46 <spidey> and 1 bomber,3 building
19:47 <wrtlprnft> spidey: 1PM till 4PM CDT on saturday... exact time isn't known yet
19:47 <spidey> ohhh
19:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:47 <spidey> it hasn't happened yet?
19:47 <wrtlprnft> no
19:47 <spidey> phew
19:47 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:47 <spidey> what was with the armabot message?
19:47 <spidey> sent 1 day 11 hours ago
19:47 <wrtlprnft> oh, that was old
19:47 <spidey> ah
19:48 <wrtlprnft> we decided differently
19:48 <spidey> k
19:48 <wrtlprnft> i couldn't play at that time and i assumed almost noone else could, so i dropped it
19:48 <spidey> i'ma have to stop playing soldat and more fortress
19:48 <spidey> i kinda suck now :/
19:48 <wrtlprnft> anyways, i was in school, so i couldn't really get people to play
19:48 <wrtlprnft> nah
19:48 <wrtlprnft> let's go and practice?
19:48 <wrtlprnft> just normal CVS fortress i mean
19:49 <spidey> sure,lemme close p2p and soldat server
19:49 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:49 <spidey> oh yea,gotta reinstall arma
19:49 <spidey> :/
19:49 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:49 <spidey> i got a legit cd
19:50 <spidey> so i formatted with it
19:50 <spidey> i got 40gigs of crap on C:\
19:50 <spidey> D:\ is the fresh install :p
19:50 <spidey> anyways
19:50 <spidey> i'll see ya there
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yep, i'm waiting
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:00 * Self_Destructo is writing alot of regex
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> mmm dinner
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> I love the feeling that I don't have anything to study right now
20:19 <Lucifer_arma> school starts again on May 30, though.
20:44 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: cancer is genetically modified cells...
20:45 <Self_Destructo> makes me wonder about genetically modified food...
20:45 <Self_Destructo> if it isn't just cancer, and not really food :/
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21:10 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
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21:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: is there any way we can get captchas for the wiki?
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> don't know. If there is, I'd be happy to put them in
21:41 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/MediaWiki:Captcha
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> if me and tank do the replication thing, then integrating phpbb and the wiki seems like a good idea
21:41 <wrtlprnft> that one looks promising
21:42 <wrtlprnft> like, get them to share the same uder db?
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> remind me after I've got the new gentoo server up
21:42 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I linked to it in the "how we'll get rid of sourceforge" thread
21:43 <wrtlprnft> might be, i didn't read all of it
21:43 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/screenshot_338.png
21:43 <wrtlprnft> look at the time :)
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> 10 minutes?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh i just see that i totally messed up the i
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 6000/60
21:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 6,000 / 60 = 100
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 100/60
21:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 100 / 60 = 1.66666667
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> 1.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 hours
21:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:45 <wrtlprnft> but hit it exactly :)
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm a go play some more
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> got some skills to recover :)
21:46 <wrtlprnft> lol
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22:02 <wrtlprnft> wait until Self_Destructo is there...
22:02 <Vanhayes> ok
22:02 <wrtlprnft> he can help you, not me, he is a windows guy
22:02 <Vanhayes> thx
22:02 <wrtlprnft> probably won't be here today or tomorrow...
22:02 <Vanhayes> ah I see
22:03 <Vanhayes> no wheres else I could get it?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> sd or joda or z-man, all of them will be able to help you
22:03 <wrtlprnft> well, you have to figure out how to compile it, that's the trouble
22:03 <Vanhayes> ok
22:04 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know exactly how to do that on windows, but you need code::blocks and some CVS client
22:04 * wrtlprnft is back to fortress now
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> waa, that was very satisfying
22:42 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:42 <wrtlprnft> I hope you won't get much better
22:43 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo uh, Vanhayes wants to compile CVS HEAD and he'll probably need some help... maybe you can try to get him started? ;)
22:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:44 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Windows_Development_System
22:44 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: that's a good starting point i think
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> man, I'm just getting started. I feel like such a noob right now.
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you should actually download the game and give it a whirl. We can use some fresh blood. :)
22:51 <wrtlprnft> come on, you're beating the hell out of people
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> I remember going 1 v 5 and winning, man.
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> now I'm getting nervous when 3 come at me
22:52 <wrtlprnft> heh. same with me, but times changed
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. People are actually better, too. seems like, anyway.
22:52 <wrtlprnft> really depends on the time of the day, too
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> still, now that people have decided holes are wussy, seems like it should be even easier to beat them.
22:53 <wrtlprnft> uh, i didn't agree to that
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> neither did I. :)
22:53 <wrtlprnft> people are using them, and the anti- hole front has shrunk
22:53 <wrtlprnft> shrunk= shrunken? shrinked?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> has it? mkzelda got booted earlier today for using holes, or something like that
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> shrunk is correct
22:53 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:53 <wrtlprnft> thanks
22:54 <wrtlprnft> i dunno what happened to mkzelda, but I don't feel it that much anymore
22:54 <wrtlprnft> but one day was really bad and they booted people for defending
22:55 <wrtlprnft> the other team was rushing through and winning all the time, but some idiot was telling everyone not to def
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's crazy shit
22:56 <wrtlprnft> oh, btw, on double-grinding: you should really watch Zop a few rounds. I think he's the only person that can give his team an advantage by double- grinding
22:56 <wrtlprnft> it's amazing how reliably he kills entire wings :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> I stumbled over his wall quite a few times earlier...
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> some doublegrinders I love when I'm defending, because they'll blow a hole in the walls back there that I can go through and actually setup faster
22:57 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:57 <wrtlprnft> i know those holes
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I need to sumo some. not right this minute, but I definitely need to spend some time over there
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to improve all of my skills, not just tight defense
22:57 <wrtlprnft> I#ll go to bed soon
22:58 <wrtlprnft> sumo is great practice :)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've only got about 3 weeks before the next semester starts
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's calc II in the 11-week semester, so I'll probably not be able to play much then, either
22:58 <wrtlprnft> only? that's a whopping big vacation
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> ? the winter break's longer....
22:59 <wrtlprnft> well, from my point of view it is :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I also have to settle my residence status before then, so I only have to pay $400 for the class
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's $800
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> and I probably can't take it if it's $800, which will screw me for calc IV in a year
23:00 <wrtlprnft> good luck then i guess
23:01 <wrtlprnft> now, can someone tell me why those f*** gnome packages refuse to disappear from my system?
23:01 <wrtlprnft> they just wanna be re- emerged on update and the dependency tree shows nothing useful
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> which packages are they?
23:03 <wrtlprnft> uh, lemme see, but it's lots
23:05 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/55498
23:05 <wrtlprnft> basically all the ones with gnome in it i wanna get rid of
23:06 <wrtlprnft> and i have -gnome in my USE flags, of course
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, I don't know
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> but they're not very big packages
23:09 <wrtlprnft> evolution-data-server looks big
23:09 <wrtlprnft> (it's 0KB since the required files are already cached)
23:12 <wrtlprnft> let's see if i can get rid of all the clutter around it (with packages i want) by manually updating those
23:14 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3400
23:14 <wrtlprnft> that's trac
23:14 <wrtlprnft> http://master1.armagetronad.net:8000/armagetronad
23:17 <wrtlprnft> good night, won't wait for kdelibs to emerge
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Log from 2006-05-13:
--- Day changed Sat May 13 2006
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01:36 <philippeqc> good morning
01:55 <z-man-home> morning
01:56 <philippeqc> How are you today
01:56 <z-man-home> not yet fully awake, 1/5th cup of coffee left
01:57 <philippeqc> That 1/5 seems to have great power
01:57 <guru3> good morning
01:57 <philippeqc> to make such a difference
01:57 <philippeqc> Hi guru
01:59 <philippeqc> O, I just realised I was about to reinvent the wheel. Anyone know of easy way to do the Set (as in Set and Subset) operation Union, Intersection and Difference between 2 collections (deque in this case)
02:01 <z-man-home> You're using deques as sets? Are the contents sorted?
02:02 <z-man-home> guru3: when will your exams be over? It would be nice if we could make the Darcs/SVN/CVS/Mantis/Trac/Bugzilla decision soon, when you an Lucifer_arma are free
02:03 <guru3> my last exam is the 23rd of may
02:03 <guru3> between now and then i have 8 more exams
02:03 <z-man-home> I didn't know there were that many subjects to study :)
02:03 <guru3> only 6
02:03 <guru3> but multiple exams in each
02:03 <z-man-home> ah
02:04 <guru3> so exams started on the 2nd
02:04 <guru3> i've done 7 so far :/
02:05 <philippeqc> The crowd (lucifer and wrt) insisted on deques, I just wanted collections. As for being sorted, atm it is unknown, as it will return list of players. But I could manage to have them sorted.
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> um, I just need some pointers to where the connection info or whatever is for the test systems
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> my exams are over
02:05 <z-man-home> I gave the pointers on the forum :)
02:06 <z-man-home> darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I see them now
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I was immersed in fortress, been awhile since I could just take a few fuck off hours and play :)
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> um, I didn't insist on deques....
02:07 <guru3> oy gevalt!
02:07 <z-man-home> philippeqc: unsorted deques or vectors are horribly bad for set operations :)
02:08 * Lucifer_arma is installing darcs, hopefully
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> what's the other scm we're looking at?
02:08 <z-man-home> SVN
02:08 <guru3> i like svn
02:08 <guru3> i know how to use it :/
02:08 <z-man-home> bzr basically is out for clumsy merge support
02:08 <guru3> why can't we find a revision control system that's based on mysql
02:09 <guru3> and then use the mysql redundancy thing
02:09 <philippeqc> z-man-home: that I've guessed. I was just about to start coding the intersection method when I realised that, and that someone else must have already written that code.
02:09 <z-man-home> I'd transform the deques into sets just for the operation, then transform them back
02:10 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: ok, not insisted, just presented as a better alternative.
02:10 <philippeqc> Is there a Set std class?
02:10 <z-man-home> and for sets (the same works with deques, but slower), for a union/intersection/difference, I'd iterate over one container and check whether the element also is in the other, and put it into the result container
02:10 <z-man-home> std::set , yes
02:11 <z-man-home> it's basically a std::map without values
02:11 <z-man-home> http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/set.html
02:11 <philippeqc> just found generic algorith set_difference, set_intersection, set_symetricdifference and set_union
02:11 <z-man-home> oh, sweet.
02:11 <philippeqc> yes really
02:12 <philippeqc> seems to work from 4 iterators and one output!
02:13 <z-man-home> Then they only work on sorted containers.
02:13 <philippeqc> Making sure they are sorted is a low price!
02:13 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: what "resources" are under our control besides the forums, wiki & main site
02:13 <z-man-home> aabeta?
02:14 <guru3> anyone? anyone at all?
02:14 <guru3> ;)
02:14 <philippeqc> resource.armagetronad.net
02:14 <z-man-home> Of course, it's Luke's, so it can be argued aabeta is not really under our control :)
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:14 <philippeqc> so is the resource one
02:14 <philippeqc> sorry guru3, I cant help you with that question
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's it. And if we get off sf for trackers and scm, then those too
02:15 <z-man-home> Perhaps the master servers fit that category as well
02:15 <guru3> gargh blah
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~/Projects/test$ darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> darcs failed: You must provide 'get' with either one or two arguments.
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> right, yes, the master servers that we control directly fit that category
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> someone making a list? :)
02:16 <z-man-home> what's your darcs version?
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> 1.0.3
02:16 <guru3> i don't feel like doing anything else to the forums, so... i'm just not gonna add those sections
02:17 <z-man-home> perhaps you need --partial -v http:// instead
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that was it
02:17 <z-man-home> I've got 1.0.5
02:17 <guru3> breakfast bbl
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> um, ok, for the forums and the wiki, if they just let us make ...
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> ok
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> nvm. Not sure I"m thinking too clearly right now, heh
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> how long does it take darcs to get the thing?
02:19 <z-man-home> The server has only 128kbit/s upload bandwidth...
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, we wanted a distributed setup with sourceforge's SCM as basically a backup, right?
02:19 <z-man-home> You're fetching some megabytes
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> was darcs the only distributed setup to show up?
02:19 <z-man-home> If we're using SVN as a basis, this SVK or whatever it was can be used by anyone, too
02:20 <z-man-home> Running the SCM ourselves completely was also discussed
02:21 <z-man-home> I personally don't mind, if we have mirrors in place, the SF outages don't worry me too much
02:21 <z-man-home> Using Trac with the SVN integration it provides is tempting, however. That would be more difficult if the SVN repository is remote.
02:21 <z-man-home> Impossible even, maybe.
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> well, I looked over trac a bit. I don't think the wiki would replace our wiki, but it would make sense to put development documentation in it
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> end-user docs would still go on the wiki we already have. I suppose we could throw out what we've got and move to that one.
02:22 <z-man-home> Yes, I feel the same about the wiki
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> bug tracking looked fine to me, I'm simple about that sort of the thing.
02:22 <z-man-home> Altough the Trac wiki is extensible with python :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't manage to coerce it to let me play with the roadmap. Is it safe to assume the roadmap provided is better than using a tracker?
02:23 * Lucifer_arma notes that "extensible with Python" should be used with care if you want reasonable thoughts from him. :)
02:24 <z-man-home> Oh, I removed roadmap admin rights from the anonymous user. Shall I give them back?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, I don't know
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> depends on the answer to my question. Ok, here's the thing.
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> IN 1 hour I could write a tracker that's better than sourceforge's, right?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> literally just about anything is better and more worthwhile for us.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm easy. :) Trac looks good.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't want to take over our own scm unless it's distributed. If it's distributed, I"ll be happy to take it over.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> if it can be distributed in a way that sourceforge has a node, so much the better.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I think. And near as I can tell, in that regard just about anything is better than cvs. :)
02:26 <z-man-home> Anonymous users have admin rights now on trac
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, Trac also looks like it does everything useful that sourceforge does except the file release system. Is all of trac python-extensible?
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> because if it is..........................
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> the flip side is that I know gForge pretty well having had hacking it as a recent assignment.
02:27 <z-man-home> We could use SF's SVN as the central node, with emergency mirrors via rsync and general use mirrors via SVK or darcs.
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I've got darcs and svk both installed now. svn of course, had that for awhile.
02:28 <z-man-home> Could you set us a gforge test server? Or does it look too much like SF to be worth it?
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it *is* SF. :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> um, look over gForge.com, I think it is, maybe gforge.org
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it takes awhile to setup, it's a pain to setup actually.
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and, to be honest, trac provides all the stuff gforge has that we don't already have, except the file release system
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and it looks like Trac's UI is substantially better. :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> brb, kid's coughing
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, back
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> gforge for us is just "start with exactly what we have and build our own from there". That's all. Get something that gives us a lot more from the starting line, forget about gforge.
02:31 <z-man-home> The important bit about the file release system are the mirrors, IMHO, and the strong SF mirrors can't be replaced by anything we can set up
02:32 <z-man-home> And for betas, we either have aabeta or attachments in Trac
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> right. Although we might be able to throw together a front-end that works for us and uses sourceforge's for the backend.
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> especially if sourceforge gets smart and works on a soap interface to it. :)
02:32 <z-man-home> I'd be extremely happy if there was a replacement for the horrible file release submission UI :)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, one more to look at
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> maybe
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/issues
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'd be inclined to go to Drupal for everything. Move the forums into it, the main website, trackers, everything, and write our own modules to do it as needed.
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> it might be more work than a lot of other things, but Drupal really does do the rest of the stuff we need
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> like, um, dealing with replication or some other mechanism to distribute the site contained
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> 1 login for forums, wiki, and the other stuff
02:37 <z-man-home> Is the tracker used by trupal really part of drupal itself?
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/ <-- this is the project module
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> the tracker I just linked is part of the project module
02:37 <z-man-home> I stumbled across it when the last release was announced, and wondered whether I should suggest it
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> I can probably setup a test of that pretty easily--after I upgrade my website
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> but you can use the one on Drupal's site to test it just fine. :) mostly, anyway.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> Drupal's api for modules pretty much forces tight integration.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> and my next (not current) assignment is going to be writing everything I just did as mambo components into drupal modules. :) So I'm literally going to be swimming in it in another month or two
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> the Project module would also give us a moviepack hosting place, and other third-party additions for the game
02:41 <z-man-home> It looks and feels nice, that's for sure.
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think we should seriously consider this. :)
02:41 <z-man-home> yes, absolutely.
02:42 * z-man-home has to go shopping now
02:43 <z-man-home> away display isn't updated properly, it seems :)
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02:48 <guru3> back
02:49 <guru3> my hands hurt :(
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> now that I look at it, drupal's tracker doesn't look much better than sourceforge's :/
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll post about it instead :)
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04:11 <philippeqc> /away
04:20 <guru3> heh
04:20 <guru3> smoothe
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> ?
04:21 <guru3> nm
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Wiki Land
04:25 <guru3> aye
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08:07 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:07 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few || months. I just love debugging ;-) || -- Linus Torvalds
08:08 * wrtlprnft hopes the version system stuff will be decided soom :)
09:01 <guru3> anyone good with modems?
09:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:16 <wrtlprnft> haven't used/seen one in 2 years
09:16 <guru3> i need the linux equivelent of hyperterminal :/
09:17 <wrtlprnft> minicom?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/minicom/
09:19 <wrtlprnft> i used that for programming (actually debugging) some small robot over a serial interface
09:20 <guru3> yes
09:20 <guru3> something like that
09:21 <wrtlprnft> the manual went through hyperterminal for windows and minicom for unix, so i guess they're similar
09:21 <z-man-home> yes, they are, I worked a while with both
09:22 <z-man-home> back in the days where my university didn't offer SLIP access :)
09:23 <guru3> you think
09:23 <guru3> that there would be more apps for this in unix
09:23 <wrtlprnft> thanks for adding joda_bot and me to the authors file :)
09:23 <z-man-home> you were already there in the branch
09:23 <wrtlprnft> oh, really?
09:23 <z-man-home> I think so. Today, I just merged.
09:24 <wrtlprnft> didn't notice... most of my work is in the trunk
09:24 <guru3> z-man-home: do you know the gentoo package for cu?
09:24 <z-man-home> what is cu?
09:24 <guru3> i think it stands for call user
09:24 <guru3> http://www.computerhope.com/unix/ucu.htm
09:24 <z-man-home> ah, the progam that lets you contact another local user?
09:25 <z-man-home> ah no, a terminal program :)
09:25 <guru3> yes
09:25 <guru3> nice & simple
09:26 <guru3> ad it's like dropped off the end of the earth
09:26 <z-man-home> nobody wants those anymore, it seems
09:27 <guru3> :/
09:27 <guru3> i miss hyperterminal :(
09:28 <wrtlprnft> WINE?
09:28 <guru3> i've got an app for my mac that does it
09:28 <guru3> my palm
09:28 <guru3> WINDOWS
09:28 <guru3> i've seen it for a newton
09:28 <guru3> but windows
09:28 <guru3> *but linux
09:28 <guru3> is like a dead zone
09:29 <wrtlprnft> interesting since linux first was nothing more than a terminal emulator
09:29 <guru3> yes
09:29 <guru3> now how do i use minicom ><
09:29 <wrtlprnft> uh
09:29 <wrtlprnft> long time ago...
09:30 <wrtlprnft> let me install it first, maybe it comes back to me
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09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: What about our match tonight or tomorrow ?
09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: how many players do u have ?
09:36 <wrtlprnft> guru3: first say <C-A>P and set up the right parameters i guess
09:36 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: currently 3, but i didn't hear from ota, eagle and miro yet
09:36 <guru3> hmm
09:37 <guru3> im back to getting the modem working it seems
09:37 <wrtlprnft> guru3: and then and then <C-A>o
09:37 <wrtlprnft> there select serial port setup to get the right device file
09:38 <guru3> i need to get the damn modem working first
09:38 <guru3> i thought it was :/
09:38 <wrtlprnft> and that's about what I know about it
09:38 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: how many do you have?
09:39 <guru3> ok
09:39 <guru3> thanks
09:40 <wrtlprnft> works?
09:42 <guru3> still on it
09:42 <guru3> yes it does
09:42 <wrtlprnft> :)
09:42 <guru3> need a phone cable now
09:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what's on the wiki ;)
09:43 <guru3> ok
09:43 <guru3> now to see if modem to modem works
09:43 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: except for ender and you , who ?
09:43 <joda_bot> spidey ?
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i think so, yes
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #last --from spidey --nolimit
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:51:01] <spidey> i'll see ya there, [19:50:59] <spidey> anyways, [19:50:53] <spidey> D:\ is the fresh install :p, [19:50:49] <spidey> i got 40gigs of crap on C:\, [19:50:12] <spidey> so i formatted with it, [19:50:07] <spidey> i got a legit cd, [19:49:40] <spidey> :/, [19:49:40] <spidey> oh yea,gotta reinstall arma, [19:49:13] <spidey> sure,lemme close p2p and soldat server, (7 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #more
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:48:43] <spidey> i kinda suck now :/, [19:48:39] <spidey> i'ma have to stop playing soldat and more fortress, [19:48:25] <spidey> k, [19:48:06] <spidey> ah, [19:47:59] <spidey> sent 1 day 11 hours ago, [19:47:51] <spidey> what was with the armabot message?, [19:47:42] <spidey> phew, [19:47:37] <spidey> it hasn't happened yet?, [19:47:31] <spidey> ohhh, [19:47:07] <spidey> and 1 (6 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i take that as a yes
09:45 <guru3> time to research hayes modem commands
09:45 <wrtlprnft> so it's sunday now i guess?
09:46 <n54> perhaps in australia
09:46 <joda_bot> ok , let's lock sunday down
09:46 <n54> oh :)
09:48 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's wednesday on mars?
09:48 <n54> they don't have weekdays over there ;) (not yet at least)
09:49 <guru3> how do i get modems to not care about the carrier :/
09:50 <n54> hmm what is your goal guru3?
09:51 <guru3> two modems directly connected
09:52 <guru3> it's not going well
09:52 <joda_bot> guru3: use a nullmodem cable ?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
09:53 <n54> have you read http://www.linux.com/howtos/Modem-HOWTO-26.shtml guru3?
09:53 <guru3> joda_bot: that's serial
09:53 <guru3> not modem
09:53 <guru3> no
09:53 <guru3> haven't read that n54
09:53 <n54> might help out
09:53 <joda_bot> modem != serial connected ?
09:54 <n54> there's a link in that how-to to another setup as well for older modems
09:54 <joda_bot> well perhaps you want to make call thourgh your home telephone system
09:54 <joda_bot> then I can understand why you would want to use two modems
09:54 <guru3> the problem is i have no dialtone
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09:55 <n54> try setting ATX to blind dial but I reccommend reading beforehand :)
09:55 <guru3> it keeps complaining about carrier
09:57 <wrtlprnft> what?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> arma wants to create a dir /www-root on install?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> i decide what directories i want in my /, no program should make one there
10:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Sunday 20:00 GMT ?
10:03 <wrtlprnft> #g 20 -7
10:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 20 - 7 = 13
10:03 <wrtlprnft> that's 1PM, ok
10:03 <joda_bot> lol no, it's -5
10:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
10:03 <joda_bot> it's 22:00 for me
10:03 <joda_bot> MET
10:03 <wrtlprnft> 7 was MESZ <=> CDT
10:03 <joda_bot> right
10:03 <wrtlprnft> even better, so it's 3PM
10:03 <joda_bot> ;)
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'll write a Email to my team, if you happen to meet whatup tell him too
10:04 <wrtlprnft> so, err, anyone an idea how i can install arma locally?
10:04 <joda_bot> Because he did not send me an email yet
10:04 <joda_bot> huh
10:04 <joda_bot> ?
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: where ?
10:04 <wrtlprnft> it wants to create a directory /www-root, and i refuse
10:05 <joda_bot> where did you install it into ?
10:05 <joda_bot> using root access ?
10:05 <wrtlprnft> even if i give it a --prefix in my /home and activate --disable-etc
10:05 <joda_bot> I usually just compile it and start it, where it is... or run it inside a user account without install
10:05 <wrtlprnft> I don't want a developlment version of arma installed in my system
10:05 <joda_bot> right ;)
10:06 <wrtlprnft> I do for testing, but the version i usually play with i install
10:06 <joda_bot> sounds like a makefile / configure problem
10:06 <joda_bot> I'm not any good with those
10:06 <wrtlprnft> wasn't there a few hours ago
10:07 <wrtlprnft> I like how different versions share the same ~/.armagetronad, that's why i make install
10:07 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: that also works with dev builds ... except debug versions
10:07 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:08 <wrtlprnft> nope, they use a separate profile
10:08 <joda_bot> really ?
10:08 <joda_bot> hmm, never noticed
10:08 <joda_bot> always worked for me
10:08 <wrtlprnft> okok
10:08 <wrtlprnft> now i created that /www-root, reluctantly, and what did it put in there?
10:09 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/55564
10:09 <wrtlprnft> is that worth it?
10:10 <n54> no
10:10 <z-man-home> hehe
10:10 <z-man-home> maybe the merging messed something up there
10:10 <z-man-home> I'll go and check
10:10 <wrtlprnft> thanks
10:11 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Should the modified files not be shown in the RSS news feed / CVS history ?
10:11 <joda_bot> btw. is there a CVS spam message delivery from SF ?
10:11 <z-man-home> which feed? The CIA thing luke is managing
10:11 <z-man-home> CVS spam?
10:12 <joda_bot> I use this news feed: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/.rss
10:12 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: thanks for the link, that thing looks great :)
10:13 <z-man-home> www-root must have been broken during the merge, my pre-merge backup doesn't have the problem
10:13 <z-man-home> and the post merge does
10:14 <z-man-home> the installer probably uses an outdated directory name
10:15 <wrtlprnft> thanks for investigating :) I wanna get rid of that dir ASAP
10:15 <joda_bot> z-man-home: CVS Spam is a ruby script that generates HTML colored diffs of the code changes
10:16 <joda_bot> each changes size/line count can be limited
10:16 <joda_bot> I'll try to find it
10:16 <joda_bot> Probably someone with enough rights can add that to SFs CVSRoot of Armagetron
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/example-simple.html
10:17 <joda_bot> Example Email on Website
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/
10:18 <n54> that looks handy
10:21 <z-man-home> I'd say you all have write access to CVSROOT, but I recently restricted it to just me&tank when i restricted write access for SD
10:21 <guru3> gargh modems are enough to drive a man crazy
10:22 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: the www-root problem should be fixed now, it was just a missing variable assignment
10:24 <joda_bot> z-man-home: only works if SF allows sending of emails and if they have ruby support
10:24 <joda_bot> otherwise it won't work anyway
10:24 <z-man-home> I think email sending is allowed
10:24 <z-man-home> not sure about ruby
10:25 <joda_bot> there are also perl scripts out there for the job
10:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: works now, thanks
10:42 <guru3> well
10:42 <guru3> so much for that
11:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match was moved to Sunday, 3PM CDT... can you still be there?
11:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-010-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
11:05 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as joda_bot
11:08 <wrtlprnft> meriton has some nice stuff there :)
11:12 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what are you talking about ?
11:12 <joda_bot> missed something
11:12 <wrtlprnft> ttp://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3456
11:12 <wrtlprnft> imagine th h
11:12 <wrtlprnft> and the e
11:17 <joda_bot> z-man-home: should I be able to add myself to the avail list ?
11:17 <wrtlprnft> although the smooth scrolling is a bit weird... i like the old code more. but the cam is excellent
11:18 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Just added my self to CVSROOT avail list, I thought that should not be possible due to write restirctions ?
11:19 <joda_bot> I'm happy to remove myself, just wanted to know if block is working...
11:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I updated the 8th's wiki talk page to reflect 20:00 GMT tomorrow
11:22 <wrtlprnft> ok
11:22 <wrtlprnft> gotta get used to that new glancing :)
11:44 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
12:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> hi
12:39 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
12:47 <n54> hi lucifer
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13:25 <wrtlprnft> i can't reach the forums... again...
13:25 <wrtlprnft> the funny thing is that i can reach my server and my server can browse them just fine with elinks
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you here?
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> forums are responding for me
13:33 <GodTodd> yeah i'm here
13:33 <n54> same here, no problem with the forum just like the other day
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I don't think you'll have *problems* with math. :) Just, you know, the extra semesters can be frustrating
13:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i said my server can reach them just fine
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> also, I won't try to venture what the schools in your area organize their math classes. Too much variance there
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> but I had to take a separate Trig class, and you know in Alamogordo I would've gone straight to calc without taking a trig class
13:34 <n54> oh so you weren't really asking - ok
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> and it was frustrating retaking math I'd already taken besides. Not that I'm complaining too much, it was fun and I needed it, but it was an extra year's worth of classtime too
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> any idea what degree you're wanting?
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> heh, here's something weird. At ACC, for any business major, you take College Algebra, then Business Calc I and 2
13:36 <GodTodd> yeah...i know what you're saying....just hoping for the best, ya know? I think I've decided on EE
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> and you can transfer that as a block to UT.
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> But at UT, if you want any business major, you have to take Calc 1 and 2, *then* Business Calc 1 and 2
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> weird shit, if you ask me.
13:37 <GodTodd> lol...what they have there is a failure to communicate ;)
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wager UT business students are probably quite a bit better on the average than ACC business students. :)
13:38 <GodTodd> i think that'd be a safe bet
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> all's I know is the College of Engineering wants a complete Calc sequence before you transfer, so I suspect their math classes aren't particularly compatible anyway.
13:38 <wrtlprnft> n54: well, i was wondering if anyone would have an idea what the reason could be ;)
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh, the other thing to consider is some of the core classes might only transfer in blocks. LIke, from ACC to UT, History 1 doesn't transfer.
13:39 <GodTodd> i just have to make sure that anything i take at CCCC transfers pretty seamlessly to UTD
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> *But*, History 1 & 2 transfer as a 6-hour block
13:39 <GodTodd> yeah...that's the kind of stuff i need to find out
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> ask them for a sheet for the college of engineering that shows what transfers and what doesn't. ACC gave me one for the UT College of Engineering
13:39 <GodTodd> yep...on the checklist :)
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> it lists all the required classes at UT that ACC offers in a transferable way. :)
13:40 <GodTodd> also going to have to see what kind of credance they give my AAS
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> hm. Generally, when pursuing another undergraduate degree, you just apply as an undergraduate and try to transfer the credits.
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> In that case, they'd ignore the AAS (except maybe if it was needed to weed out competitors and pick you--not a problem in community colleges)
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> but they'd look at GPA and the actual classes. It's a non-Texas school, right?
13:41 <GodTodd> i know....i took a year at NMSUA....ended up with only Comp I transferring....then finished this latest degree....so hopefully some of the classes will apply
13:41 <GodTodd> yeah
13:42 <GodTodd> 3.289 GPA
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> I imagine you're safe with comp I. :) But here's something that's annoying
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> UT wants you to take Comp I and some literature class to get a BS/BA, right?
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> ACC provides those classes and they transfer!
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> But, at ACC, the Literature class has Comp II as a prerequisite.
13:42 <GodTodd> lol
13:42 <GodTodd> and not at UT?
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> So if I want to take the literature class at ACC, I have to take Comp II, which UT doesn't care about and will probably ignore anyway
13:43 <GodTodd> right
13:43 <GodTodd> that's academic thinkin' fer ya ;)
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> so I took comp 1, and I'll take the literature class at UT, when it's a weed out class. :(
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> I'm considering using UT's distance learning program to squeeze out the literature class, but their program isn't covered by financial aid, so I'd have to pay up for it
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> ~$300
13:44 <GodTodd> ouch
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> dude, that's a steal! :)
13:44 <GodTodd> hell...i'm just glad i can think about all of it now...i have residency :)
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> After I get my residency status changed, this 4-hour Calc 2 class I'm taking this summer is $400
13:44 <GodTodd> yeah...still expensive tho :P
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh, another thing. These guys in this channel are pretty helpful. :) I think I got a whole letter grade higher on at least one test thanks to help found here.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> math, it has to be. Lots of calc students here, though.
13:46 <GodTodd> cool :)
13:46 <GodTodd> i'm in a learning frame of mind lately....think the whole 'househusband' thing is starting to get to me.....teaching myself CSS now....need to get into school...heh
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> cabin fever, my wife calls it
13:47 <GodTodd> yeah...that :)
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> you got any new books for me to read? I just ran out.... ;)
13:49 <GodTodd> lol
13:49 <GodTodd> i have two chapters each of two of them on my website...i'm holding back on more tho....none complete, however
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I could pick up another baen book, heh
13:54 <GodTodd> actually...i'll send you the one....i'm about 1/3 to 1/4th of the way through it....it just seems to have gone flat....can't pinpoint the problem....writer's blindness...it'll probably stick right out at you....
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> so no finished books? Any book likely to be finished before I catch up with you?
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, ok.
13:57 <GodTodd> ok to send it in OOO 2 format? or what format do you prefer?
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's fine. I'm running ooo 2 :)
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> and it has a palm export, iirc. I seem to remember stumbling across it, anyway.
13:57 <GodTodd> cool...just wanted to check :)
13:59 <GodTodd> bah...i lied....i sent both that have stalled ;)
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> haha. that's cool.
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> I've been devouring baen books lately, but it's a lot of military sci-fi and alternative history
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm looking around, like at school, and wondering where I'm going to get futuristic weapons to fight the alien invaders--if any should happen to show up
14:01 <n54> o.O
14:01 <GodTodd> lol
14:02 <GodTodd> i got one baen book at half price books....still have to read it....got a trip to Alamo coming up at the end of the month...probably read it then
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not much else to do in that town.
14:05 <GodTodd> it's an honor harrington book
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> On Basilisk Station?
14:06 <GodTodd> no lie...i go there every now and again just to remind myself why i moved
14:06 <GodTodd> yeah
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how well the honor harrington books stand on their own, but OBS is the first one. :)
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's a good book.
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, this summer, instead of making up a reason to go to Alamogordo, I decided to take calc 2 :)
14:06 <GodTodd> lol
14:07 <GodTodd> well...i have to make the rounds to show off Conor
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know how that goes. :)
14:07 <GodTodd> made up that reason a few months ago ;)
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, the hit counter on the baen free library is over 3 million
14:09 <GodTodd> wow
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't even notice they had one, because I don't look at stupid stuff like hit counters. :)
14:10 <GodTodd> lol
14:11 <wrtlprnft> i just can't get rid of gnome... it re-emerges without any reason if i try to update
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> Probably at least 1000 of those hits are me. ;)
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> any reason you can't live with it?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> idealism?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> those are tem useless packages
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> bah. it's a computer, who needs idealism? ;)
14:12 <wrtlprnft> and everytime i do an emerge -e world those would get compiled as well
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> good behavior, manners, and ideals go out the window in favor of technology, don't they?
14:13 * Lucifer_arma gets all snobby whenever he looks at the baen free library
14:13 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> Is Andre Norton good? My mom used to tell me so....
14:14 <GodTodd> not sure
14:14 <GodTodd> i hear mercedes lackey is
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, the books are free, can't hurt to check her out
14:14 <wrtlprnft> free? like Free?
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've looked over Mercedes Lackey's stuff, but it's all fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not sure how you mean, wrtl. No DRM on them
14:15 <GodTodd> didn't she work with....oh what's her name....the Pern chick.....Anne McCafferey.
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> but, no creative commons licensing and stuff
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah she's fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, but Pern got really boring
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah it did
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I tried to read the one with the whales or dolphiins or whatever and got so bored I had to put it down
14:15 <GodTodd> but then so did Xanth
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> probably the fastest I've ever abandoned a book.
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried rereading any Xanth since you became an A-D-U-L-T?
14:16 <GodTodd> yeah
14:16 <GodTodd> tried being the operative word
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> was it still good? heh
14:16 <GodTodd> it wasn't awful....but you have to be in a 'fart joke' mood
14:17 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> later wrtlprnft
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is free, so I may as well try it. I gave David Drake a try for the same reason, right? Heh.
14:19 <GodTodd> hey...can't argue with free ;)
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> I am trying to balance it against buying the next 2 books in the Legacy of Alldenata series
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> how about Fred Saberhagen? Ever read any of his stuff?
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> There was a guy....Chris?...back in junior high school that read all of his stuff
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> Hmmm, starts with an E? You know the kid I"m talking about?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> lisp...braces...not the bassoon player
14:22 <GodTodd> i think so....never read saberhagen....didn't he have some series about a mouse or something?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> a mouse. That sounds familiar. not the Stainless Steel Mouse, right? Different mouse?
14:22 <GodTodd> not sure
14:23 <GodTodd> just remember something about a mouse heh
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> the stainless steel mouse is someone else, and really good stuff to boot.
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't argue with free, I guess.
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> still, I'd prefer not to think I've wasted my time when I could've just picked up more of the alldenata books. :)
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> the last honor harrington book I read didn't leave me wanting for more, so I'm kinda hoping philippe will show up so I can ask him what's up with it
14:24 <GodTodd> oh..saberhagen had the Book of Swords series
14:25 <GodTodd> that's right
14:25 <GodTodd> he lives in the Querqe too
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> how about Linda Evans?
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, not interested in book of swords. Never was, really. Heh.
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> the problem wth the chick writers is that they're so much more fantasy than anything else, and I'd rather just pass them up completely if that's the case
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice if someone would go through the baen free library with pointers. Sometimes I'd rather read a summary of the book, even if the whole book is right there to read for free
14:33 <GodTodd> true
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14:36 <n54> no idea about that library you're talking about but I reccomend Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.baen.com/library/
14:43 <n54> thanks, might read some
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14:57 <n54> any favourites?
14:57 <n54> (I prefer hardish df)
14:57 <n54> sf*
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15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber is really good
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Eric Flint's fun
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> David Drake bored me, but you might give him a try. his Tank Lord series is pretty popular, I understand.
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber's March Up* books are really good.
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Of course, Honor Harrington, at least the first two. I'm still not sure about the third...
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> and John Ringo's LEgacy of Alldenata series. At least, the first two. :) I really enjoyed them both. Well, the first was one of those "this is good but rough around the edges"
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> the second book, Gust Front, was really good and polished and stuff.
15:38 <n54> hmm I think I'll stick to short stories -- I'm too impatient :) -- but perhaps I'll look at it again later
15:50 <z-man-home> #later tell wrtlprnft what do you mean with "BUG the /msg code is broken again"?
15:50 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot err, no, that shouldn't be working.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot But we don't really want to restrict anyone, I just wanted to prevent accidents.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:56 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok
16:01 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-010-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: ok
16:16 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:16 <ghableska> hi
16:17 <n54> hi :)
16:17 <ghableska> hi n54
16:18 <ghableska> ugh, it's freezing today
16:18 <n54> really?
16:18 <ghableska> yes
16:18 <n54> where were you from again?
16:18 <ghableska> US
16:19 <n54> northern state then?
16:19 <ghableska> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa
16:19 <ghableska> :)
16:20 <GodTodd> whereat in IA?
16:20 <n54> ah ok
16:20 <ghableska> des moines
16:20 <ghableska> #cnn 50265
16:20 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, IA is 50�F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Wind: NW at 17 mph (27 km/h).
16:20 <ghableska> brrr
16:20 <GodTodd> ahhhh....i lived in Omaha for a few years
16:20 <ghableska> cool
16:20 <GodTodd> not really...but...yeah
16:20 <GodTodd> ;)
16:20 <ghableska> or not..
16:20 <ghableska> nebraska is boring to drive through.....
16:21 <GodTodd> even more boring to live in
16:21 <GodTodd> lol
16:21 <ghableska> miles and miles of flatness
16:21 <GodTodd> not as boring as KS tho
16:21 <ghableska> really?
16:21 <GodTodd> really
16:21 <ghableska> hmm
16:22 <ghableska> *shrugs*
16:22 <ghableska> #lart Nebraska
16:22 <ghableska> aww
16:22 <n54> wow Iowa is indeed a very flat place according to wikipedia
16:22 <GodTodd> kinda chilly here today too....only 88
16:23 <ghableska> Lucky...
16:23 <ghableska> at least iowa has farms and stuff to look at...
16:23 <ghableska> whereas nebraska has tumbleweeds
16:23 <ghableska> lol
16:24 <n54> sounds sort of like denmark, also a very flat country
16:24 <ghableska> you're from norway, right?
16:24 <n54> yup
16:25 <n54> not so flat here (the danish call us "mountain monkeys") ;D
16:25 <ghableska> lol
16:25 <n54> :)
16:27 <ghableska> wow
16:27 <ghableska> a branch just flew off a tree and hit my window XD
16:27 <n54> windy+
16:27 <n54> ?*
16:27 <ghableska> gusts...
16:28 <ghableska> hasn't started raining (yet)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> danes = plains vikings
16:29 <ghableska> heh
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> I remember Ioway being hilly
16:32 <GodTodd> iowa and nebraska both have biggest cities that would barely rate as suburbs here :)
16:33 <ghableska> here=....?
16:33 <GodTodd> north TX
16:33 <ghableska> oh
16:33 <GodTodd> just up from Dallas
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's Dallas, come on
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> D/FW is just one big city now
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> with a few fields with cows thrown in for that country feel
16:34 <GodTodd> true...but we have to retain some of our own identity :D
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> you can try. :) Won't be too long before it's just one big city from San Antone all the way up to D/FW
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> it's already mostly urbanized, that drive
16:36 <GodTodd> i know
16:36 <GodTodd> hell...our side of dallas to the other side of CowTown is like 100 mi of straight city
16:38 <GodTodd> gotta go leave a dump
16:39 <n54> guess that explains why the rest of texas is pretty desolate? (according to a friend of mine)
16:39 <n54> /s/friend/aquaintance
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> only part of texas that's desolate is west texas, which is really just a fancy way of saying "New Mexico"
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
16:40 <n54> hmm ok :)
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> in my texas government class we were told that texas is 80% urbanized.
16:41 <n54> hmm
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> don't know for sure if they meant population or area in that figure
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, south of San Antonio (and the Brazos River, iirc, might be Nueces down there) and west of the hill country is pretty desolate
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> but that's only 1/3 or less of the state
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> the rest is lush, fertile land with little streams and rivers and stuff kinda webbed through it. Can't drive more than 2 or 3 miles without driving over a low water crossing
16:43 <n54> must have meant population
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> except on the interstates, anyway, which are supposed to go over those things. :)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, even the area I just described has El Paso in it, and that's one of the bigger cities in the state, bigger than Austin, even.
16:43 <n54> I meant desolate as in no people around (or barely any)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> not that Austin is a big city, heh.
16:44 <n54> for long stretches
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I haven't been in east TExas since I was very little, usually departing to the west or north when I leave the state
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> but there's plenty of people north, and plenty south (until you get near the border)
16:45 <n54> ok those guys were probably travelling along backroads anyways
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> west texas is, ummm.. It's a place I'd rather not drive my truck for fear of running out of gas between regular gas stations.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> signs on the interstate say "Gas 10 miles, next gas station 150 miles"
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> and the next gas station really is just that, a gas station. Maybe with a little "museum" attached, but no little village or anything.
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> Jeez, even New Mexico has little villages around their gas stations, heh.
16:47 <n54> sounds great :)
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh. Wyoming is fun, though
16:48 <n54> how so?
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> there's a little valley surrounded by the continental divide in the southwestern corner of wyoming
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> The Rockies go through there, of course. :)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> So in this little valley there's nothing but stagnant water, because none of the water flows out of the valley, and no water flows in.
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> In the middle of this valley is a gas station, and its literally the only thing in the valley. Even the Ore Ida factory near there is outside the valley
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> 10000 feet up a mountain, I'm sure you can imagine the cost of moving significant resources to actually support people in the valley
16:49 <n54> hmm yeah
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and its desert, so there's no rain worth speaking of. Just a big, stagnant pond.
16:50 <n54> sounds like a cesspool...
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I think that would be a perfect place to grow the algae to support a big biodiesel industry :)
16:51 <n54> hehe
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> land has to be cheap, right? And the stagnant conditions are exactly what you want for algae-growing
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> refine it up there and move it down, energy to move up is minimal, you start with energy and then go down
16:51 <n54> I've heard of places in southern states than are dirt cheap
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, my wife and I talked about inventing moisture evaporators and moving out to west texas and becoming water farmers :)
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a billboard selling a pretty decent chunk of land for $99.
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> I said "Hey, I could build a moisture evaporator and then we can sell water, become a utility"
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> (use migrant farmers and we can live in the city :) )
16:53 <n54> I'm sure you mean condenser but yeah :)
16:53 <GodTodd> specially when they get hydrogen fuel cells going good ;)
16:55 <n54> It's going to be clean coal, a norwegian company has recently cracked the problem
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yes, I actually mean condenser, but if I called it that, you wouldn't get the star wars reference
16:55 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:55 * n54 didn't get the Star Wars reference anyway :)
16:56 <GodTodd> always madness to your method, eh? ;)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> clean coal? Um, isn't coal one of those finite resources? Finite as in "we might actually run out of this one"?
16:56 <n54> well anything's finite depending on where you draw the line :)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> there's always the heat death of the universe in our future, after all
16:57 <n54> exactly :)
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> but we can actually run out of coal in the next hundred years or so
16:57 <n54> ?eah
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> so how does clean coal solve the problem?
16:57 <n54> some argue the same about uranium, I
16:57 <n54> 'm not worried
16:58 <n54> it's energy most western nations have themselves, that's part of what it solves
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh. well, you won't get me arguing that uranium is sustainable for energy in the long run.
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm very interested in tapping into the biosphere for this stuff because it's renewable and has an indefinite supply, provided we don't ruin the balance required in the biosphere to keep the renewal process going
16:59 <n54> what stuff?
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> then we need only fear the heat death of the universe, but there's nothing we can do about it
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> energy.
17:00 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> See, the energy itself doesn't actually come from the biosphere, it comes from the sun. But the algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and uses photosynthesis to separate the carbon from the oxygen
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> then it stores the carbon as oil, vegetable oil in fact.
17:00 <n54> sure I don't mind wind, water, solar whatever, but if I'm able to use coal cleanly I'll use that too
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which can be distilled into biodiesal
17:01 <n54> I'm not 13 :)
17:01 <n54> or 7 :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> wind and water, fine. Solar has problems, not the least of which is the nasty process required to build the solar cells in the first place.
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> then there's the problem that the energy we get from solar cells is only a trickle compared to what's available. The way I understand it, tapping plants for solar power is much more efficient.
17:02 <n54> most of the coal will burn sooner or later anyway (coal fires etc.) might as well use it sensibly
17:03 <guru3> for my birthday should i see about a new laptop or like a nokia 770?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> and we need something to electrolicize (sp?) the water into hydrogen and oxygen for the fuel cells
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> nokia 770, definitely.
17:03 <guru3> why?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> that thing's awesome
17:03 <n54> no idea guru3, I'd probably go for a laptop but I'm not you
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, I haven't gotten one yet, so I can't speak from experience. :)
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> it runs python and Crimson Fields. What more do you need from a pda?
17:04 <guru3> a keyboard :/
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> available, isn't it?
17:04 <n54> I've seen some nice roll'em-up pda keyboards
17:04 <guru3> i think you have to get something via bt
17:04 <guru3> but i mean this is the birthday/graduation present
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> bt? bittorrent? You have a link to a .torrent for a keyboard?
17:04 <guru3> so i could probably talk my parents into like a macbook pro
17:04 <guru3> bt -> bluetooth
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right
17:05 * Lucifer_arma was hoping for a downloadable pda keyboard
17:05 <n54> if the pda can work as a tape recorder it would be great for lectures
17:05 <guru3> i don't think it has a mic
17:05 <guru3> but you can play music streams
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> it should beat the hell out of a laptop for note-taking if you can get a keyboard for it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has a mic device, you'd have to buy the attachment though.
17:05 <guru3> i've read that http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ works with it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> don't know if it has a plug
17:06 <guru3> hmmm. the next version is supposed to support boip
17:06 <guru3> *voip
17:06 <guru3> so it must have a mic
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, the thing with laptops and school is mostly battery life. If I didn't need my laptop for work, I'd be looking at getting a word processor, keyboard, printer, etc, for my pda
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'd still have had to plugin my pda last semester if I used it for note-taking.
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's only got about 3 hours of battery life
17:08 <guru3> hmm
17:08 * n54 likes his computers big and clunky, like refrigerators and such :D j/k
17:08 <guru3> heh
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> but if you could get your textbooks for it and a keyboard, what would you carry to class? ;)
17:09 <guru3> i'd carry it anyway
17:09 <n54> a refrigerator or mini-bar?
17:09 <guru3> just like every day this year
17:09 * Lucifer_arma wants his textbooks for lecture classes on his laptop so he can grep it when the teacher asks questions
17:09 <guru3> i've had my palm, phone, and ipod on my belt
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> right. And then a backpack or something, right?
17:09 <guru3> my mathbook has a cd with it in pdf format
17:09 <n54> nice
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, math books are no good for what I want, because I use old-fashioned pencil and paper for those classes anyway
17:09 <n54> not lugging books would be great
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> if it wasn't so much work to scan and OCR textbooks, I'd do all of them when I got them (except the math books, of course)
17:11 <n54> why not math books?
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> different kind of beast.
17:11 <n54> shouldn't be any worse than physics or chemistry imo
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> however, if the writing utensil on the Nokia 770 worked well enough, I'd gladly use it instead of pencil and paper for note taking
17:12 <guru3> aparently there is a mic
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> but I guarantee ou the writing utensil on my palm pda isn't good enough for that
17:12 <guru3> but it's also well hidden
17:12 <n54> if I had a recorder I would be very sparse on the notes
17:12 <guru3> and there's no recorder
17:13 * n54 suddenly finds himself lusting for owning a recorder lol
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> you can get a good recorder for pretty cheap
17:14 <n54> not like I would use it for anything wither lol :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've considered it, and I might actually do it soon
17:14 <n54> yeah... would be nice if it stored to usb though
17:14 <n54> in ogg! :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> the other thing I've considered is taking my digital camera to class and snapping off pics of the chalkboard during the lecture
17:14 <n54> lol that would not be distracting hehe
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> why ogg? you don't need that kind of quality for a lecture :)
17:15 <n54> oh boy I wouldn't manage not kidding around with you if you were my pupil and did that lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> dude, if I went in there and did that with the camera, I guarantee you the idea would sweep the campus like wildfire
17:15 <n54> you're right it wouldn't have to be ogg
17:15 <guru3> i think that i shall ask for a 770
17:15 <guru3> i can't think of anything better
17:15 <n54> lol lucifer
17:15 <n54> either way have a happy birthday guru3 :9
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious! There's so much stuff that appears in the lecture materials that people miss
17:15 <guru3> not for a couple weeks yet
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> graduation, isn't it?
17:16 <guru3> graduation & birthday are a week apart
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> ah
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> happy G&BDAY
17:16 <guru3> not yet
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> is labor day in there for you?
17:16 <guru3> don't jinx me :P
17:16 <guru3> no
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm....
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> any other days that start with L?
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> or T, for that matter?
17:17 <guru3> not that i know of
17:17 <n54> love parade day? (not real but... almost)
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, I just wanted to make it happy GLBT day
17:18 <guru3> you could make it then BL&T day
17:18 <guru3> bacon lettuce and tomatoe day
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:18 <n54> doesn't sound half bad :)
17:19 <n54> l?rdag starts with l but I guess that doesn't count ;)
17:19 <guru3> no it doesn't
17:19 <n54> :)
17:20 <guru3> it might be a thurs or tues day tho
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> I don't hate you for who you are. I just hate you because it's Thursday.
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that would be a fun instant chat
17:22 <GodTodd> but it's saturday...
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> don't bother me with the facts! You probably think it's White Boy Day
17:23 * Lucifer_arma <--- thinks True Romance is a great movie :)
17:23 <n54> if you hate me just because it's thursady I would be inclined to think you're female
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> I get accused of that a lot, actually, since verybody calls me Luci
17:24 <n54> well you know... at least we don't call you lucy :)
17:24 <GodTodd> hmm didn't even think of that ;)
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> and being black, and being gay
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm a gay black woman, apparently.
17:24 <n54> that's a good combo
17:24 <GodTodd> well those we knew :)
17:24 <n54> asl Lucy? j/k XD
17:25 <GodTodd> hey...run for president as the minority choice :D
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> sure
17:25 <n54> :)
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> think I can convince anybody I'm a gay black woman, besides arma punks?
17:25 <GodTodd> well...michael jackson tries to convince us he's a straight black man
17:25 <GodTodd> so anything's possible ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> we'd be crushed if we found out he was really a gay white woman
17:26 <n54> he's human? :O
17:26 <GodTodd> only person to be born a poor black boy and end up a rich white woman
17:26 <GodTodd> ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, he's making new inroads to civil rights
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> don't knock it
17:27 <n54> I wonder what messed up his life so bad
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> drugs, abuse, and a skin condition
17:27 * n54 has got a skin condition
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> now, sure, he's probably thrown a little extra money into plastic surgery along the way
17:27 <n54> perhaps I'm the new MJ?
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> along the lines of me asking the docter to throw in an extra stitch after my baby was born
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> you know, "since you're in there already...."
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> he's really got a skin condition. But more importantly, wasn't it setting himself on fire that started the plastic surgery?
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> (my wife wasn't amused about the extra stitch joke, either)
17:29 <n54> I have absolutely no idea
17:29 <n54> I only know he was pretty decent around Thriller
17:29 <guru3> the 770 does look pretty juicy
17:29 <guru3> 3 hours of battery
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> that was after his recovery I think
17:29 <GodTodd> yeah..it was after that the pepsi torched him
17:29 <n54> acid pepsi?
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> you sure? I thought he got torched before it
17:29 <GodTodd> not sure really
17:30 <n54> there's way too little baseball on european tv *grumbles* it's perfect out-of-my-timezone-late-night-tv :|
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson <-- it was Thriller-era for sure
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> also, compare the pictures of him from a child to Thriller, and then to Bad
17:32 <GodTodd> yah...looks like the video was 83 and the pepsi thing was jan of 84
17:32 <GodTodd> same time roughly
17:32 <GodTodd> chicken/egg
17:32 <GodTodd> ;)
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> Although Jackson's skin color was a medium-brown color for the entire duration of his youth, his skin had been becoming paler gradually since 1982, and had become a light brown colour. This was now so noticeable the entire press, not just tabloids took out widespread coverage on it. Jackson attributed the changing skin color to vitiligo and denied rumors that he bleached his skin.[24] Another significant reason for the change in a
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> umber of surgeons' claims that Jackson has undergone multiple nasal surgeries as well as a forehead lift, thinned lips and cheekbone surgery[25], Jackson wrote in his 1988 autobiography Moon Walk that he only had two rhinoplastic surgeries and the surgical creation of a cleft in his chin, while attributing puberty and diet to the noticeable change in the structure of his face.[26]
17:35 <n54> he did a moon walk on his face
17:35 <n54> poor guy
17:37 <GodTodd> i dunno if it's natural or not....i just know that he's a hell of a lot lighter now than he was 25-30 years ago ;)
17:38 <n54> in ancient china women tied up their feet to make it look like they had small feet, in modern usa women butox their faces to make it look like they're grinning zombies XD
17:39 <GodTodd> i'm glad that my skin doesn't get paler....i've got a lot of danish blood in me...if i was any paler you'd thing i was an albino :D
17:39 <n54> :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, if n54 ever comes out of his house, he might stop looking like a viking ghost
17:40 <n54> I look like buddha :)
17:41 <n54> hey my uncle (seattle btw) has vitiligo! I just never knew the name for it
17:41 <Lucifer_arma> says Michael Jackson was diagnosed with it in 1983
17:42 <Lucifer_arma> the thing is, the 80s were pretty racist time, iirc. And black people music had gotten quite a boost in the 70s. The only people I remember accusing MJ of bleaching his skin were racist.
17:42 <n54> really?
17:42 <Self_Destructo> am I here?
17:42 <GodTodd> probably the KKK
17:42 <n54> no Sd you're not :)
17:42 <Self_Destructo> hehe
17:43 <GodTodd> are any of us really here?
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> and it had to be a disappointing thing to think that here was this really successful black guy, great dancer, great musician, all that stuff, he could do a lot for civil rights
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> you know, just by being successful
17:43 <n54> nope GodTodd ew're all illusions
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> then he starts turning white
17:43 <GodTodd> lol
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> so there's going to be some people saying "Look, he's just a poser". I remember hearing the opposite claim, that he had always been white and dyed his skin to make money
17:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: does Van have CVS access?....
17:44 <Self_Destructo> is CVS even up?
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> then there's going to be people who fear black people having civil rights, so they go off with "he's bleaching his skin"
17:44 <GodTodd> hmmmm never heard the dying himself black thing before
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> cvs is up, you need a fresh checkout following new instructions
17:44 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:44 * n54 believes gun rights did more for civil rights than a lot of other stuff ref. Condolezza Rice's childhood
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> miht have just been a regional thing. People wanted to think he sold out and that bleaching his skin was part of that
17:44 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: and where are new instructions?
17:44 <Self_Destructo> sorry, I've not been around
17:45 <guru3> good night ya'll
17:45 <n54> cya guru3 :)
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=110997
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> 'night guru3
17:45 <Self_Destructo> ty
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> basically, you use armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net for the machine now instead of the old name
17:46 <n54> enough about MJ let's talk Mick Jagger; is he half trout?
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> I don't care what he is, but he can wrap those sweet lips around my penis any time
17:47 <n54> puke
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:48 <n54> I think geriatrics should be banned from doing stageshows :S
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I think Mick Jagger should be excommunicated from the human race for having the perversity to pretend he's an artist with tht crap he spits out
17:49 <n54> that's an ok second
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> it's kinda pathetic when "I don't get no....gir-lee ac-shun" is the pinnacle of your creative ability
17:50 <n54> hehe yep
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> at least Britney Spears can claim she was duped
17:50 <n54> she's a clone without an original, it was thought to be impossible but it wasn't
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> ? she's cut from Madonna, didn't you know?
17:51 <n54> oh another geriatric...whe should stop waering spandex
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> I agree with the spandex thing, but I think Madonna's still hot
17:51 <n54> she* wearing*
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> except in Evita
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> she's not hot in Evita
17:52 <n54> I don't really but she made a few good songs somewhere inbetween it all
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> look man, I got in trouble with my mom for watching a Madonna video, that makes her alright by me
17:52 <n54> hahaha
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that goes "In the midnight hour, I can feel your power". Is it Like a Prayer?
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> so, my wife and I are driving in the car listening to the Chipmunks sing Express Yourself, right?
17:53 <n54> no idea, whatever the one was with black crows, and also the one with the sunrise, those were good
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> My wife says "You know they never made any new chipmunks after the 60s?"
17:53 <n54> hehe the chipmunks
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> *thwack*
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> she's a smart girl, but she can be pretty dim-witted sometimes
17:54 <n54> she meant it as in actually making chipmunks? :o
17:56 <n54> oh even worse...
17:56 <n54> I got it now
17:57 <n54> it's summer & my brain is made of silicon
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no new songs or cartoons.......
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> (had to give my son some medicine, he's got pneumonia)
17:58 <n54> ouch
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, poor kid :(
17:59 <n54> not too serious hopefully? would be in hospital if it was right?
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he'd be in a hospital if it was real serious. He's on the couch watching bob the builder
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh. So, last year my daughter got pneumonia, right?
17:59 <n54> heh I know that one "Builder Bob"
17:59 <n54> ok
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> My sister in law came over to paint her room, then my wife gets a call from the school nurse and takes my daughter to the emergency room
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> where they diagnose the pneumonia
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> so my wife calls home, where my mother in law and sister in law are babysitting the other two kids (I was out at the time, but making my way home)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> and she tells them, so when I call, they tell me, and I'm on my way in, right?
18:01 <n54> I'm with you
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> When I get there, my sister in law is *still* painting my daughter's room
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> !?!? wtf? Paint fumes, pneumonia, it's not hard to understand.
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she threw a little attitude when I told her to stop.
18:01 <n54> hmm not sure, I thought pneumonia was almost always cold-related? as in temperature shifts and wetness
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she's still mad at me, I think. :)
18:01 <n54> :)
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's fluid in the lungs
18:02 <n54> yes
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> to put it simply. And usually starts with something else, like a cold or the flu or something. Ear infection. That sort of thing.
18:02 <n54> yup
18:02 <GodTodd> luckily i don't have a sister in law ;)
18:03 <n54> I've had one once, she was a better person than the x-gf
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> heh. More specifically, you don't have a stupid stuck up conceited aristocratic sister-in-law
18:03 <n54> nope sure don't
18:03 <GodTodd> tomaytoe--tomahtoe
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I'm saddled with. My wife's working class family acts like aristocracy, but her family that actually is aristocracy acts like working class. It's very strange.
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I've just got my expections reversed
18:04 <GodTodd> sounds very....dysfunctional ;)
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
18:04 <n54> no it's perfectly normal :)
18:04 <n54> real posh never is posh
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> on her father's side they're real American aristocracy, family came to america with the pilgrims and all, and can trace their lineage to British nobility
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> on her mother's side, they're mostly white trash, but across the board they pulled themselves up, so they're mostly self-made people
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> weird stuff.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> but what do I know? I'm just a simple peasant. :)
18:05 <GodTodd> then there's your side ;)
18:06 <n54> ah "self-made" has a tendency to include "sickly arrogant snobbery" not as a rule but often
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'm improperly labeling more of her family bad than I should. It's mostly her mom and sister and a few cousins and aunts, really.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> she's got a couple of aunts, an uncle, and a coupe of cousins that are downright wonderful people
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> but it only takes one bad apple....blahblahblah
18:07 <GodTodd> self made usually leads to delusions of grandeur in that you think you're better than others because you raised out of the squallor and made something of yourself....usually leads to bitterness and egotism because 'nobody gave me nothin' and I made it anyways' ;)
18:07 <GodTodd> not always but as a general rule
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, hmm. chicken and egg. Were you bipolar before, is that why you became successful? Or did you become bipolar as a result of becomin successful?
18:08 <n54> yeah it seems like that has a tendency to happen, but I should say anything at all really as I'm an ultimate loser myself :)
18:08 <n54> lol
18:08 <n54> shouldn't*
18:08 <GodTodd> yep....chicken/egg....although we all know the egg came first :P
18:08 <GodTodd> lol
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> nah, you're just another army kid that got fucked over and lied to by his government
18:09 <n54> right egg did come first, it's really the only logical answer
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> loser implies the actual intent
18:09 <n54> who me?
18:09 <GodTodd> dinosaurs laid eggs
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> yeah you
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> didn't you say the ME or whatever more than likely came from some inoculation they forced on you during your forced service?
18:10 <n54> you've got it wrong :) (btw I still am an officer)
18:10 <n54> no it was before that
18:11 <n54> and there's no real substantial evidence yet as to the inoculation having a connecting, just the most likely explanation
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> ? didn't you say only army personnel were at risk over this incident? Or was it really something they hit kids in general with?
18:11 <GodTodd> hmmm...i knew some pretty cut and dried losers in HS that i'm pretty sure didn't intend it that way....
18:11 <n54> no sorry we must have mixed something up if you think so
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know that I need substantial evidence to believe something. :) People believe crazy things on a lot less than "most likely explanation"
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably just mixed up. :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I think I was studying when you were telling the story, so only paying part attention
18:12 <n54> it's ok I think I mentioned those two things together but not intending for there to be a direct link (because there really is non)
18:12 <n54> none*
18:13 <n54> anyway I stopped wotking there for a reason so I don't particularily mind (damned hobo army full of idiots) - still have friends there though
18:14 <n54> typing isn't my thing today it seems - sorry :S
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Todd, there's a kid at my school that looks and walks just like you'd expect a 31-year old Jason McWhirter to look and walk
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's spooky. I keep expecting him to walk up to me and say "Did you find my game yet?"
18:14 <GodTodd> blah....grew up around too many damned military people....;)
18:14 <GodTodd> lol
18:14 <n54> bad conscience?
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> probably, heh
18:15 <GodTodd> didn't he get busted for credit card fraud a few years ago?
18:15 <n54> you nicked it?
18:15 <GodTodd> wonder if he thinks his mom's still a virgin heh
18:15 <n54> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, ummm, I borrowed it. Right? Then he did something, I forget, pissed me off, and I was a spiteful little brat
18:15 <n54> figures ;)
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> arranged to meet him somewhere and give it to him, when he didn't show up, I set it on the table and left
18:15 <GodTodd> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> and it disappeared, nobody knows what happened to it
18:15 <n54> the aliens ate it
18:16 <GodTodd> he tried getting me busted on local bbses around there once
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> but for like 2 months, everytime he saw me he'd ask me where it is
18:16 <n54> he probably has it at home
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> he was a nice kid, really, but he was one of those kids who got treated badly for being dumb and generally looking and acting like a ummm
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> what's the word
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> defective person, that's it
18:17 <GodTodd> defective....hmmmm....very.....diplomatic :)
18:17 <n54> I guess he meant retard
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was odd that he only ever talked about one set of grandparents.
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, he was more functional than "retard" implies
18:18 <n54> oh ok
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> and loyal as hell.
18:18 <GodTodd> that game wasn't Battle Chess was it?
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't even remember what it was. I didn't even want to borrow it, but he loved it and wanted me to see it.
18:18 <GodTodd> yeah...he was loyal....didn't care really how anyone treated him....was kinda sad really
18:18 <n54> heh I recently dl'ed battle chess out of nostalgia, it's didn't really stand up to the memories
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha, no, turns out battle chess was a pretty sucky game, doesn't it?
18:19 <n54> absolutely
18:19 <GodTodd> haven't played it in years
18:19 <GodTodd> lol
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> check out UAE, the Unworking AMiga Emulator
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> then you have to google for disc images, but they're out there
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> got silent service II on my hard drive here :)
18:20 <n54> I found it as a torrented ms exe, tiny thing
18:20 <GodTodd> unworking, huh?
18:20 <GodTodd> ;)
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, it works now. obviously it got the name before it worked.
18:20 <GodTodd> obviously
18:20 <GodTodd> :D
18:21 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> there's a pretty good archon clone for Linux
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda like to see an openGL-based archon clone. I'll be we could use arma to build one. :)
18:22 <n54> hmm since you two obviously are about my age; do you remember the name of a game that was based on changing the color of lines of a grid by moving "you"? might have been on a spectrum but I'm not sure and haven't found anything through google
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> qix?
18:22 <n54> no that's the "uncovering" game isn't it?
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> was it where you had to section off a game grid that contained a weird line pattern that moved around and electrocuted you?
18:23 <n54> nope
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> platform?
18:23 <n54> I think spectrum but I'm really not sure
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> if it was a PC game with no amiga/c64 version, I don't know
18:23 <n54> ok
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, spectrum
18:23 <n54> only played it in a store you see and I was too small to worry about names
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> is that one of the european computers that never made it to the US? :)
18:24 <n54> hmm possibly although it would surprise me slightly
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, arcade game?
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> did it use a trackball?
18:24 <n54> tv
18:24 <n54> joystick
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> might have been based on an older arcade game whose name escapes me
18:24 <n54> must have been early 80ies
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> one of the original vector graphics games, predecessor to star wars
18:25 <n54> no worries, just had to ask, had a coworker who knew what it was and digged up some obsolete c code for it but I'e lost it years ago and forgot the name
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> it had a paddle and a trackball version in the arcade, but I think its clones were joystick-based
18:25 <n54> actually I don't think it was vector but it was extremely simple
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> Tempest
18:26 <n54> just a grid and two moving dots (you and an enemy) and you had to recolor the grid by moving along it without getting caught
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like tempest
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=T&game_id=10065
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> scroll down a ways to screenshots
18:28 <n54> nope sorry :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, don't know then, sorry
18:29 <n54> no problem :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> is it more similar to the dots game you play on paper?
18:29 <n54> hmm not sure what game you're referring to
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> a grid of dots, each turn you get to draw one line. When you close a box, you put your initials in the box
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> when the grid is full, the one with the most boxes wins
18:30 <n54> nope
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> I played a game that's similar to what you described, derived from the dots game, on the c64 a long time ago
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> my brother and I used to play it together a lot. You'd go around the edge of the square, then you hit the button and point the joystick in a direction and go
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> out in the middle, right?
18:31 <n54> yeah it might have been c64 since the coworker dug some code up
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> then the game would send enemies to attack you, and you need to get back to the safe part. If you go back on your trail, you die, so you get back to the safe part a different way
18:31 <n54> uhh no that doesn't sound like tit to me
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> in the process tracing a polygon in the square. When closed, it's colored with your color
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's also a qix derivative :)
18:32 <n54> only the lines shift color and it's a quadratic grid and you can follow the grid in any direction (where you'e travelled the color changes)
18:33 <n54> fill all with your color and you get a new level
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember such a game. I've just given you the line-drawing games I can remember. :)
18:33 <n54> no problem :)
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> might find it on the list of video games site I linked, though
18:34 <n54> yeah I've looked but no luck so far, started googeling c64 stuff
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> I really want to make arma play like Ebonstar :)
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that site's just coin-operated video games :(
18:37 <n54> yup
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.lemonamiga.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php%3Fid%3D1563
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, that's a tron font!
18:38 <n54> never played that one
18:39 <n54> I can make tons of fonts like that ;)
18:39 <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> that was an awesome game
18:39 <n54> but yeah it's nice
18:39 <Self_Destructo> can anyone translate that?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> german?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> #list google
18:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
18:39 <n54> attack-something can not attack the world/be? ----
18:39 <Self_Destructo> I'm guessing, I don't know
18:40 <n54> something you hear point-something of attackers
18:40 <Self_Destructo> n54: it would be something of that sort
18:40 <n54> I don't really know any german so :s :D
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> no germans active atm
18:40 <Self_Destructo> nope
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe he'll answer, maybe he won't, heh
18:41 <n54> I can use my dictionary if you want to
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft
18:41 <Self_Destructo> Attack goal cannot be attacked, because of to high score of the aggressor.
18:42 <Self_Destructo> ok, I got it
18:42 <Self_Destructo> :)
18:42 <n54> ah
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know what that means too :)
18:42 <n54> I should learn german
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> fick mich
18:42 <n54> lol
18:42 <Self_Destructo> kinda dumb for one little phrase to be in german when the whole rest of the site is in english
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:43 * n54 thinks luci is a eastern german prostitute that married herself to a greencard :P
18:44 <GodTodd> din din time :)
18:44 <n54> din din+
18:44 <n54> ?*
18:45 <Self_Destructo> din din = a childish way of saying dinner time
18:46 <n54> ah ok
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> gay black east german prostitute, that is
18:50 <n54> you would be surprised at how common that is! XD
18:50 <n54> j/k :)
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Self_Destructo. He's got small kids in his house and he's still in newlywed mode
18:52 <n54> lucky him :)
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I need a zone that applies acceleration due to gravity to game objects
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> then I need a death zone, smaller, that I can put in the middle
18:53 <n54> for the ebonstar thingy?
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that does acceleration needs to render as a warped funnel in the grid floor, and the death zone should fit inside the bottom of the funnel
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> then a game object that is a ship, takes light cycle controls but applies them differently
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> break is thrust, and turn commands just spin it, like asteroids controls
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> and a fire button. That's it.
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> um, the shots need to bounce whoever they hit, and there can only be one shot per player at a time.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> the idea, then, is to use the shots to push the other players into the hole. The last man standing is the winner.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> I think you got points for hits, too. Hmmm, don't remember victory conditions exactly.
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> it ws a cool game, though. If you aimed well, you could slingshot a shot around the ebonstar and hit someone on the other side :)
19:11 <n54> hah I found it! but I'm positive I must have played an earlier version (no way it was on dos) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapper
19:13 * n54 doesn't remember the encosed rectangles lighting up
19:14 <n54> enclosed*
19:16 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I need the two files for the rotator again...
19:22 <wrtlprnft> okok, where do i start?
19:22 <wrtlprnft> #last --with Angriffsziel
19:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [18:39:26] <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
19:22 <wrtlprnft> Target (of the attack) can't be attacked bacause of the enemie's too high score
19:23 <Self_Destructo> hrm
19:24 <Self_Destructo> the translater made it sound like my score was too high, not thiers
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man-home never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> their score is too high, definitely
19:24 <wrtlprnft> uh, what two files?
19:24 <wrtlprnft> they are all in CVS
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, found a disk image for ebonstar finally :)
19:25 <wrtlprnft> and Vanhayes doesn't have CVS access, but it looks like anonymous CVS is up and running again, so he can use that
19:25 <wrtlprnft> hope that's it :)
19:26 <n54> :)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> interesting conversations about "K�sek�stchen" there
19:26 <wrtlprnft> K�sek�stchen = German name for the game you were talking about
19:29 <n54> hmm I see two ?'s
19:29 <n54> ebonstar or gapper?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> those are a with two dots over them
19:29 <n54> thank you :)
19:29 <n54> K?sek?stchen?
19:30 <n54> what does it mean? :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> Kasekastchen, but with .. over the a's
19:30 <n54> ok I got it right then :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, something like cheese boxes, if you translate it word by word
19:31 <n54> strange name :)
19:31 <Self_Destructo> wrtl,tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x16faf): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17da9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:32 <Self_Destructo> same error as last time
19:32 <Self_Destructo> and you gave me 2 files, IIRC
19:32 <wrtlprnft> you need to make a new checkout using the new server
19:32 <Self_Destructo> er....
19:32 <n54> found a screenshot but it's obciously the dos version and not the one I played
19:32 <n54> http://www.dosgamezone.com/gapper/
19:32 <Self_Destructo> i did do a total download of the CVS all over again
19:33 <wrtlprnft> do you have a src/tron/gRotation.cpp?
19:33 <Self_Destructo> arg
19:33 <Self_Destructo> nvm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> umm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> it's not been added to the project
19:33 <wrtlprnft> you need to tell codeblocks to compile it though
19:33 <wrtlprnft> then add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> i can't add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> we need one of joda or z-man to do that
19:34 <Self_Destructo> send them a note then, please
19:36 <wrtlprnft> #later tell joda_bot can you add src/tron/gRotation.* to the codeblocks project file and commit? I don't know how to do that and Self_Destructo can't committ
19:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:36 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: well, you can add the files locally i guess, you just won't be able to committ the changes
19:37 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got it
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that's an awesome game
19:38 <n54> gapper?
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> ? oh, ummm, ebonstar
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> finally found a disk imge of it
19:38 <n54> hehe :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> install uae and I can give you a kickstart rom and a disk image and you can see it for yourself
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, gotta go make dinner
19:38 <n54> cya :)
19:38 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:42 <wrtlprnft> spidey: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:42 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:45 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: maybe
19:47 <wrtlprnft> we need some kickass players for that...
19:48 <wrtlprnft> ota, spidey, Self_Destructo, me, and someone else, ee or miro and we might have a chance
19:49 <spidey> wrtl,what's that central time?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> GMT-5
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 13:00GMT
19:50 <wrtlprnft> no
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 15:00GMT
19:50 <spidey> i'm not good with time zones
19:50 <wrtlprnft> me neither
19:50 <spidey> you know when it is eastern time?
19:50 <spidey> they're +1 hour
19:50 <wrtlprnft> summer or winter time?
19:50 <spidey> ummm
19:51 <spidey> summer
19:51 <spidey> shit
19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:51 <wrtlprnft> better
19:51 <spidey> how many hours?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> that's my time
19:51 <spidey> lol
19:51 <n54> lol :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/09/home-defense/
19:51 <wrtlprnft> 19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:52 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:52 <spidey> :p
19:52 <spidey> is it day or night time?
19:52 <wrtlprnft> uh
19:52 <wrtlprnft> evening
19:52 <spidey> k
19:52 <wrtlprnft> you can se that from the 19:51 :D
19:53 <spidey> like i said,i'm not good with times :p
19:53 <wrtlprnft> I've heard some people here call 24h format "military time"
19:53 <spidey> i wouldn't know what time it was my-time if there wasn't a clock in every room
19:53 * wrtlprnft has a watch on 24/7
19:53 <n54> 24hrs time is the only time :)
19:54 <wrtlprnft> and, uh, on my screen there are 5 clocks visible right now
19:54 <n54> :)
19:54 <spidey> i have 1 on my screen
19:54 <wrtlprnft> but one is from my server in munich, so it shows the local time there
19:54 <spidey> and it's usually wrong
19:54 <wrtlprnft> let's see
19:54 <spidey> cmos going out :<
19:54 <n54> I'd like more than one but haven't figured it out on kde
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is in this terminal window from the screen session
19:54 * n54 hasn't really tried either
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is getting displayed by IRSSI session in its status line
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is next to the last chat line
19:55 <spidey> question
19:55 <spidey> why you need so many clocks? lol
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is on the kicker bar, and it's saying fancy things like "Five to eight"
19:55 <wrtlprnft> and one is in the screen session i have running on my server and am accessing over SSH
19:55 <n54> I'd like to have to avoid having to do maths to figure out other timezones :)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> there is no real need for them, they're just kinda unavoidable
19:56 <wrtlprnft> IRSSI needs that status line anyways, so why not put a clock there?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> and screen has one as well for convienience (tabs) and there's enough space for a clock
19:56 <spidey> wrtl,so the match is in 24hours right?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> no
19:56 <spidey> >.>
19:57 <wrtlprnft> there's 2 matches now
19:57 <wrtlprnft> one is tomorrow
19:57 <spidey> k
19:57 <wrtlprnft> let me calculate the time
19:58 <wrtlprnft> one is in 19 hours
19:58 <spidey> k,sec
19:58 <wrtlprnft> and the other one is in exactly four days
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 4*24
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 4 * 24 = 96
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 96 hours
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 96-19
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 96 - 19 = 77
19:58 <spidey> so
19:58 <wrtlprnft> or 77 hours after the match tomorrow
19:58 <spidey> 4pm my time
19:58 <spidey> ?
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> 'er
19:59 <spidey> ye
19:59 <spidey> aa
19:59 <spidey> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> to many damn timezones >.>
19:59 <spidey> i'll try to be awake by then :s
20:02 <Self_Destructo> umm, who won today?
20:02 <spidey> 0:08:41
20:02 <spidey> A hostile fleet from NeoSheikZ write message from planet Dream Killer [3:453:6] is approaching planet Cyborg [3:459:5]. Its mission is: Attack.
20:02 <spidey> :<
20:02 <spidey> 8 minutes
20:02 <spidey> :s
20:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: noone won yet
20:05 <wrtlprnft> match is tomorrow 3PM CDT
20:05 <Self_Destructo> ah
20:05 <wrtlprnft> you can come?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> it moved :)
20:06 <spidey> who's it against wrtl?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> first one is against 8T, second one AW
20:06 <spidey> you got a link as to who's in 8T?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> the 8T one is just for fun, it doesn't count for the spoon
20:07 <spidey> k
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from jota_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6647 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from joda_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6648 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> blah
20:07 <spidey> k,well i'ma need practice for the AW,i been playing soldat to much :<
20:07 <spidey> alot of practice
20:07 <spidey> heh
20:07 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Talk:8th_Team#Availability_Match_vs._MBC
20:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey: wanna go sumo/fortress?
20:09 <wrtlprnft> my browser tab bar now has 6 rows... something is telling me i have too many tabs open
20:09 <spidey> sure,gimme 1 minute,i'm getting attacked on ogame
20:09 <spidey> lol
20:09 <spidey> 6rows? lol
20:09 <wrtlprnft> tell me when/where :D
20:09 <spidey> i rarely get more than 7 tabs
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol, my normal is 22
20:10 <wrtlprnft> rows or tabs?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> never had multiple rows
20:10 <wrtlprnft> 31 tabs right now and growing
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:10 * wrtlprnft is doing too much multitasking
20:10 <Self_Destructo> umm
20:10 <n54> too much porn! :D j/k
20:11 <Self_Destructo> 35 tabs and can't open any more
20:11 <spidey> wtf
20:11 <Self_Destructo> no such thing as multiple rows in firefox i guess
20:11 <spidey> sd....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> 14 are tron related in some way
20:11 <spidey> tell me what this means sd
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <spidey> someone attacked me right?
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> .....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> .........
20:11 <wrtlprnft> aww, no pattern?
20:12 <Self_Destructo> .................................................................................................................................................................................................
20:12 <spidey> ok i sent them a message saying i sent everything off and to attack would be useless
20:12 <Self_Destructo> a dotted line
20:12 <spidey> so when it says they attacked
20:12 <Self_Destructo> I'm running outta dots
20:12 <Self_Destructo> gota get another bag
20:12 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:12 <spidey> nothing happened,no message,nothin
20:12 <spidey> :/
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <Self_Destructo> heh, wierd
20:13 <spidey> ohh
20:13 <spidey> i refreshed to fast
20:13 <spidey> The attacker has won the battle!
20:13 <spidey> He captured
20:13 <spidey> 12 metal, 6 crystal, and 0 deuterium
20:13 <spidey> The attacker lost a total of 60000 units.
20:13 <spidey> The defender lost a total of 2782000 units.
20:13 <spidey> At these space coordinates now float 12000 metal and 12600 crystal.
20:13 <wrtlprnft> what would you want with 2H?
20:13 <wrtlprnft> *to do
20:15 <Self_Destructo> Points 17796 (Rank 1790 of 5989)
20:15 <spidey> Points 16103 (Rank 1842 of 5989
20:15 <wrtlprnft> dang opera crashed after 4 days...
20:15 <spidey> i imagin that'll go down once the defense losss takes affect
20:15 <wrtlprnft> i wanted to break my record of a week :(
20:16 <n54> yeah, seems to me opera doesn't like having lots of tabs open
20:16 <spidey> heh,i got 11 IPM's
20:16 <spidey> i think i'll just direct them to that guy instead
20:17 <wrtlprnft> well, it did just fine for a long time
20:17 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:17 <wrtlprnft> and it's a beta, so i don't expect perfectness
20:17 <Self_Destructo> i got 10
20:17 <Self_Destructo> all i can hold
20:17 <Self_Destructo> 20 anti's
20:18 <spidey> http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=88101#88101
20:18 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: the longest I've ever had windows open at one time is something around 10 days
20:18 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 255 $ uptime ~ 20:18:46 up 7 days, 18 min, 13 users, load average: 0.24, 0.17, 0.12
20:19 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ uptime ~ 03:19:10 up 22 days, 3:25, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
20:19 <spidey> k wrtl,fortress?
20:19 <wrtlprnft> kk
20:19 <spidey> cya there
20:24 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:24 <ghableska> hi
20:25 <n54> hi again :9
20:25 <ghableska> :)
20:25 <ghableska> it's quiet....
20:25 <ghableska> ;)
20:25 <n54> you somehow miss a lot of the talking
20:25 <Lucifer_arma> HI THERE GHABLESKA HOW ARE YOU DOING??
20:26 * ghableska goes deaf
20:26 <n54> yikes lol
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> that was convenient. Kubuntu has a package for UAE :)
20:27 * n54 hands out earplugs
20:27 <ghableska> :)
20:27 <Self_Destructo> hi
20:27 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:27 <ghableska> hi
20:28 * n54 wonders if the makers of UAE happens to be from UAE and that if so it explains UAE being named UAE :)
20:28 <ghableska> o_0
20:28 <n54> :D
20:29 <n54> would be funny :)
20:29 <ghableska> very
20:31 * Self_Destructo is printing a 650 page book
20:31 <n54> :o
20:31 <ghableska> what book?
20:31 <Self_Destructo> a C++ book
20:31 <Self_Destructo> the only time i get to read it will be at home
20:32 <n54> gah I've done stuff like that, if it hadn't been at work I would ahve been better off just buying it
20:33 <Self_Destructo> same here
20:33 <Self_Destructo> i just buy the paper and take it to the printer and they bind it...
20:34 <Self_Destructo> make it worth it
20:34 <n54> oh
20:34 <Self_Destructo> makes*
20:35 <Self_Destructo> 650 peices of paper is hard to keep in order unless it's bound ;)
20:35 <n54> i used what's-it-called... binders? no hmm
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got one...
20:36 <n54> you know the stuff you punch holes in the paper to use
20:36 <n54> is it binders?
20:36 <Self_Destructo> kinda hard to punch all the holes into it though
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yes
20:36 <n54> oh... and yes :)
20:37 <Self_Destructo> easier for them just to get a big punch an punch all 650 sheets st the same time
20:37 <n54> yeah
20:37 <Self_Destructo> and they'll cover it
20:37 <n54> and probably print on both sides of the paper etc.
20:37 <Self_Destructo> nah, I'm doing the printing :)
20:38 <n54> hehe ok
20:38 <Self_Destructo> and yes, i do print on both sides :)
20:38 <n54> it's going to be a monster lol
20:38 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:38 <Self_Destructo> man it is getting hot in here
20:38 <Self_Destructo> the laser printer puts off alot of heat
20:38 <n54> :)
20:39 <Self_Destructo> 500 sheets of paper is app. 3 inch thick, lol
20:39 <n54> yeah at least
20:40 <n54> some of the monster manuals I've come across had ultrathin paper
20:40 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:41 <Self_Destructo> if I could have found thinner paper I would have gottne it, but I couldn't
20:44 <n54> yeah I don't think it's easily available
20:44 <n54> I've never found it at least
20:54 <Self_Destructo> well, the printer would have a hard time picking it up too, I'm sure
20:55 <n54> yeah
20:55 <n54> I wonder how those kinds of paper are printed anyways, guess it must be some special stuff they use
20:56 <Self_Destructo> probably
20:59 <Self_Destructo> wow, what a book!
21:00 <n54> :D
21:04 <Self_Destructo> 50 more odd pages to print
21:04 <Self_Destructo> then do the even side :)
21:05 <spidey> my fridge is so cold,the coke is like a slushy
21:06 <n54> lol spidey
21:06 <spidey> seriously
21:06 <spidey> i didn't even have to put ice in it
21:06 <spidey> it was already in it xD
21:07 <Self_Destructo> lol
21:07 <Self_Destructo> i think you need to turn it up then
21:09 <n54> this one is for armabot :) http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
21:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:16 <Self_Destructo> GRRRRRRRRR
21:16 <Self_Destructo> i got a paper jam
21:16 <n54> rawr?
21:17 <n54> yeah you're bound to have a few of those
21:20 <Self_Destructo> kinda puts a kink in the smoothness
21:21 <n54> yup
21:31 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: wow 600 pages... that's a lot
21:31 <wrtlprnft> I kinda read through it while programming my stuff
21:32 <wrtlprnft> probably a bad idea since i ended up reorganizing everytime i found out some new "gimmik" of c++
21:32 <n54> both ways are good imo, it takes time to digest any way you do it
21:32 <wrtlprnft> and i still know what a factory is and didn't find a good tutorial
21:34 <wrtlprnft> *And i still don't know
21:34 * wrtlprnft should dropping words
21:34 * wrtlprnft should stop dropping words
21:35 <n54> I've never heard of factory in relation to code either
21:35 <n54> :D wrtlprnft
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern
21:36 <n54> thanks
21:36 <wrtlprnft> but that seems to be java, not c++
21:36 -!- spidey [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:37 <n54> yes
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://gsraj.tripod.com/design/creational/factory/factory.html
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that one looks promising
21:39 <wrtlprnft> which adds another tab of stuff i wanna read one day
21:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: yeah, it's big
21:39 <Self_Destructo> i can't stand to read a book on the computer
21:39 <Self_Destructo> dad does it all the time though
21:40 <wrtlprnft> i kinda read it in many small chuncs
21:40 <wrtlprnft> if i sat in front of a school computer and was bored i would just read a chapter of it
21:41 <n54> still java, perhaps it isn't relevant to other oo languages?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> if the librarian wasn't looking i printed it out and read it in class :D
21:41 <n54> sometimes I hate reading on the computer, sometimes I don't
21:41 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec, that's java?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> oops
21:41 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
21:41 <n54> :)
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it appeared in a search term that contained c++, so i just assumed it was c++
21:42 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern#Uses_of_Factory_Method
21:42 <wrtlprnft> > In Qt, QMainWindow::createPopupMenu is a factory method declared in a framework which can be overridden in application code.
21:42 <wrtlprnft> so it has to be relevant for c++ somehow
21:42 <n54> mm yeah
21:42 <wrtlprnft> but that linked page doesn't say a lot to me
21:43 <wrtlprnft> which is understandable, it's just source doku
21:43 <wrtlprnft> or API doku
21:43 <n54> or it could be it's just called something else, sometimes that's the case I guess
21:44 <wrtlprnft> I think I have an idea how you'd do that in c++, but i don't see a real use
21:44 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to read that java page after all :(
21:44 <n54> seems reuse-focused to me but well I don't really know
21:45 <n54> might simply be rare :)
21:45 <wrtlprnft> might appear useless to me because it doesn't solve the problem i still have in my mind and didn't find an appropiate solution yet
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://my.opera.com/tarquinwj/homes/albums/45511/1IE4.png
21:46 <wrtlprnft> IE4 and acid2... looks interesting
21:46 <Self_Destructo> crap
21:46 <Self_Destructo> somehow it got ten pages off
21:46 <wrtlprnft> well
21:46 <wrtlprnft> read them on- screen
21:47 <Self_Destructo> well, it's easy 345 flip over 356 :)
21:48 <Self_Destructo> I'm not sure how it woulda got mixed up though :/
21:48 <wrtlprnft> have fun with your book :D
21:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, it looks like it is going to be intertaining :)
21:49 <n54> had no idea Konqueror passes acid2, perhaps I should switch to it
21:49 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:50 <wrtlprnft> opera 9B1 does too :)
21:50 <n54> yeah I might use that on the windows box
21:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, and some post-2.0 branch of firefox does, but it's horribly messed up
21:51 <n54> ok I doubt I'll try that then ;)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/#mozilla
21:54 <n54> hopefully it wont be too long then
21:55 <n54> one day perhaps I can enjoy making compliant webpages again :)
21:56 <wrtlprnft> well, the real obstacle is IE
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ah, there we go
21:57 <wrtlprnft> stupid gaim is having all those stupid dependencies
21:57 <wrtlprnft> gone
21:57 <n54> yes true but the final drop for me wass usually making it look the same on opera as on mozilla and ie - in the end I couldn't take it anymore lol
21:57 <n54> was*
21:57 <wrtlprnft> huh?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> i never had big problems with opera, FF and konqueror
21:58 <wrtlprnft> just minor fixes, usually my fault
21:58 <wrtlprnft> although FF had some annoying bugs
21:58 <n54> I suaually managed to make a standardscomplliant page look just about exactly the same in ie and mozilla but opera would all kinds of quirky stuff (this was a while ago, I stopped doing anything)
21:58 <wrtlprnft> and konqueror is really great unless you wanna style form items
21:59 <wrtlprnft> then it becomes a mess
21:59 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:59 <wrtlprnft> if you're talking pre- opera7 i can understand that
21:59 <n54> hmm it might have been as said it was a while ago
22:00 <n54> how many years since 6.8?
22:00 <wrtlprnft> 6.8?
22:00 <n54> yeah I think it might have been *looks it up*
22:00 <Self_Destructo> n54: LOL good one - talking about the link
22:01 <wrtlprnft> opera7 was releases jan 2003
22:01 <Self_Destructo> http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
22:01 <n54> hehe the story?
22:01 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
22:01 <wrtlprnft> *released
22:01 <n54> yeah :)
22:01 <n54> hmm ok wrtlprnft
22:03 <n54> might actually have been 7-something but it's not important :)
22:03 <n54> they're at the front now :)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> interesting story that one Self_Destructo
22:04 <n54> yeah
22:04 <wrtlprnft> 7-something is still old :)
22:04 * n54 is bot a bot :D
22:04 <wrtlprnft> but it was a huge jump
22:04 <n54> uh... not*
22:04 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:05 <n54> :)
22:05 <wrtlprnft> opera 6 was the first version i had... i kept it for a while after 7 came out since i didn't like the new version
22:06 <n54> yeah I probably did the same
22:06 <wrtlprnft> new look (didn't know about skins and there was no really good opera6 skin anyways) and there was no emeil notification window
22:06 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p50908E20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i used to have a wondow open every time i got a mail
22:06 <wrtlprnft> *window
22:06 <wrtlprnft> if i did that now i would be clicking all the time
22:06 <n54> never used opera for mail myself
22:06 <wrtlprnft> heh. i love opera's mail client
22:07 <n54> :)
22:07 <wrtlprnft> more than 50000 messages now and a keyword search takes about a second before the first results show up
22:07 <wrtlprnft> incremental, of course
22:07 <n54> I want to set up qmail some time and probably squirrelmail too
22:08 <n54> I used squirrel at uni years ago and liked it a lot
22:08 * wrtlprnft doesn't like webmail interfaces
22:08 <n54> I kind of agree but squirrel was different imo
22:10 <n54> anyway qmail is probably what I really want, then whatever client I use probably wont matter as long as I make them not dl anything permanently
22:11 <wrtlprnft> if i'll ever switch mail client it will be a console client
22:11 <wrtlprnft> mutt or something
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that way i can do the same thing as i do with irssi and put it into a screen session
22:11 <wrtlprnft> *that
22:12 <wrtlprnft> and if i ever switch web browsers... imagine the details
22:12 <n54> as in switching mail over etc.?
22:13 <wrtlprnft> no. if i have a console mail client in a screen session i can just SSH from anywhere and get access to my mail as if i was sitting directly in front of my computer
22:14 <n54> ah yeah but in my case my main computer is not contiuosly on (when it's operating) but the server I have planned would be
22:15 <wrtlprnft> I was thinking about moving this IRSSI session over to my server
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but decided against it because of the lag
22:16 <n54> yeah it's a quarter of the world away for you :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:16 <wrtlprnft> YAY
22:16 <n54> ? :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> it stopped wanting to install gnome BS
22:16 <n54> hehe
22:23 <Self_Destructo> book printed :)
22:23 <n54> :)
22:23 <Self_Destructo> i went back and re did those 100 pages way off sync
22:24 <wrtlprnft> just 100 pages...
22:24 <wrtlprnft> TREE MURDERER! jk
22:24 <n54> lol but now that tree is like preserved! ;)
22:24 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, someone remind me to check my logs in a week
22:25 <wrtlprnft> just configured logrotate to rotate those overflowing things
22:25 <n54> I will have forgotten tomorrow, don't ask me :|
22:25 <wrtlprnft> my /val/log/messages is 150MB
22:26 <wrtlprnft> */var
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #list later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: notes and tell
22:26 <n54> that's a tad ont he heavy side isn't it? running tripwire or similar?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no command "later".
22:26 <wrtlprnft> no, but they're over a year old now
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help tell
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells the <nick> whatever <text> is. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
22:27 <wrtlprnft> no #tell --in 1 week wrtlprnft blah?
22:27 <n54> make a cronjob?
22:27 <n54> mailing you?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's what logrotate does
22:28 <wrtlprnft> just an easy way
22:28 <wrtlprnft> you know, central point where all packages with logs put themselves into
22:28 <wrtlprnft> I'm fine if it just gzips the files and stores them somewhere
22:29 <wrtlprnft> mailing is a bad idea, i don't want it to send me a 150MB mail next week
22:29 <n54> no just a reminder was my thought
22:29 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah
22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:29 <n54> I wouldn't want a 150MB mail either :D
22:30 <n54> that's way beyond spam :)
22:30 <wrtlprnft> what was that command that lets you execute another command at a specified time?
22:30 <n54> at?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> i thoght it was at, but it doesn't exist on my sytem
22:30 <n54> that might be outdated though
22:30 <n54> ah oh *scratches head*
22:31 <wrtlprnft> /msg memoserv help
22:31 <wrtlprnft> ack
22:31 <wrtlprnft> there must be a use in that thing
22:32 <n54> hmm I still have at at my system (knoppix)
22:32 <wrtlprnft> might just be something gentoo doesn't install by default
22:33 <n54> yeah, or maybe it does something weird like only provide it to root? *no idea*
22:33 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:33 <SD|away> cya guys
22:33 <n54> cya SD :)
22:33 -!- SD|away is now known as SD|bbmonday
22:33 <wrtlprnft> cya
22:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's a no for the match tomorrow i guess
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> that's a no
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> I'm never here on sundays
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ah, right
22:34 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3460
22:34 <wrtlprnft> grammar: 0
22:34 <wrtlprnft> 2.8 is better
22:34 <wrtlprnft> better than what?
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> lol
22:34 <wrtlprnft> and it's 0.2.8, if anything
22:36 <n54> brb
22:37 <wrtlprnft> hb
22:45 <n54> hb?
22:47 <wrtlprnft> hurry back
22:47 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:47 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:48 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:52 -!- _Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
22:52 <n54> wb
23:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:12 -!- _Lucifer_arma is now known as Lucifer_arma
Log from 2006-05-14:
--- Day changed Sun May 14 2006
00:20 <n54> cya all :)
00:20 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
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00:31 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
01:03 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:39 <spider> supercalafragalisticsexpealapwnage
03:03 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
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03:05 <philippeqc> morning
03:19 <guru3> good morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> philippe:
03:19 <philippeqc> how are you all
03:19 <philippeqc> yes
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3459&highlight=
03:20 <philippeqc> Ebonstar
03:20 <philippeqc> do you still have the log of our discussion?
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. I posted the disk image there, I also have a kickstart rom if you need it to run UAE
03:21 <philippeqc> I get the feeling one or 2 crutial details are lacking
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> I probably have the log, but wouldn't be able to find it. :)
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> um, if you want to fire it up and see the game for yourself, that probably tells you everything I could tell you that's not in that thread already.
03:22 <philippeqc> search for ebonstar! How often does that word pop up in a regular dicussion ;)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> UAE handles it quite well. I played it earlier. :)
03:22 * Lucifer_arma tries to remember where the logs are kept
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47478#47478
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that may not be the complete chat
03:29 <philippeqc> ok thanks
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, wasn't complete. Refresh to get the rest.
03:32 <philippeqc> question about ebonstar, cant you just park in a corner far from the black hole and be pretty safe?
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, as long as someone's shot didn't hit you
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> the shots would last for like 30 seconds or longer before they timed out
03:32 <philippeqc> you will just get momentun in the wrong direction, but mostly toward the corner.
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> so someone could bounce one off a few walls and sneak it behind the black hole
03:32 <philippeqc> I guess you bounce off the walls
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> the corners are small, you bounce off the wall and fall in
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> but you spawn in the corners for that reason, they're relatively safe
03:33 <philippeqc> ok
03:33 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:35 <philippeqc> ha, the momentum gained from a missile must be important enough to make you bounce out of your corner
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> it's quite substantial
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> you also lose control while bouncing from it, so you're also stunned when hit
03:36 <philippeqc> o ok
03:36 * Lucifer_arma is remembering details now that he didn't remember because he played it earlier :)
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> check it out, seriously. I can pm you a kickstart rom for UAE. Movement keys (for green, anyway) are n,m turn, "," is thrust, and "." is fire
03:38 <philippeqc> ok
03:38 <philippeqc> started my im
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> this probably counts as fair use, so if you don't have a license for a kickstart rom, you should delete it when done :)
03:39 <philippeqc> firewall/router must be making trick
03:40 <philippeqc> msn/jabber?
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> forums. It's already zipped, I got it that way
03:40 <philippeqc> ok
03:41 <philippeqc> I've downloaded the bin for UAE
03:42 <philippeqc> requires libgtk-1.2, and the install process decided to jam for the first time ever
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ok, pmed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ? don't you just run it from the directory it's in?
03:42 <philippeqc> yes, but it needs libgtk, and I dont have it installed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> compiling it was a pain on Mandriva, when I last tried. The bin worked, though. And they had no package. :( Kubuntu has a package. :)
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> oh.
03:44 <philippeqc> quite peculiar! I restarted the install, and it just die(no response from the app) on the second file.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what's up. I never tried to install it, just ran it from the directory it's in.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I tried to build it, under the crazy impression I could improve its performance, until I realized it wouldn't matter as fast as my machine is compared to an amiga
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think there's a non-gtk ui, though.
03:46 <philippeqc> it is really jamming (the installation of libgtk is)
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> hm, says I can't pm it to you. I'll put it on my website.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> libgtk is jamming?
03:47 <philippeqc> the installation of some package required for it
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> are you installing it from a package, or is the UAE installer trying to do it?
03:47 <philippeqc> I got it to run now
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
03:48 <philippeqc> no, myself on mandrake
03:48 <philippeqc> I also clicked on some dev files, they must be the ones jamming
03:48 <philippeqc> libgtk had 1 dependency
03:48 <philippeqc> did it in 2 step, the dependency alone, then libgtk alone
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> www.davefancella.com/Kickstart1.3.zip
03:48 <philippeqc> running
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> the game is running?
03:49 <philippeqc> EUA
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah. hmm,
03:49 <philippeqc> got the kickstart
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, unzip the kickstart somewhere. Then in UAE, click the Memory tab
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click Change, in the Kickstart ROM file panel. Pick the kickstart.rom file wherever you unzipped it
03:50 <philippeqc> done
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> of course, you also should have downloaded the ebonstar.zip file from that thread and unzipped it. :)
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click on Floppy disks
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> next to df0: click "Insert" and navigate to the ebonstar disk image and select it
03:51 <philippeqc> ok, have the .adf there
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> then click Pause at the top to unpause it and start the emulator
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> .adf is right :)
03:51 <philippeqc> neat
03:51 <philippeqc> wow, I hope the "waiting to start" animation is not the real speel
03:51 <philippeqc> speed
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> it is
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> but it's ok, trust me
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and remember, this computer was cutting edge in 1986
03:52 <philippeqc> how can I slow it down
03:53 <philippeqc> it is already on "approximate 68000/7mhz speed"
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> ? it should be running right, UAE is a good emulator that way
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> and 68000/7mhz is the original processor, and the one I had as a kid. :)
03:54 <philippeqc> took the xi86 bin and I'm running on AMD64. That would mess up anybody
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> the magical aspect of the game was its multiplayer mode.
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> aha
03:54 <philippeqc> ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> CPU emulation tab - click adjustable and fool with it until it feels right
03:55 <philippeqc> I'll loan my gf computer, there is still a linux install on a 10 gig partition ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> uae has a windows version too. :) I'm sure you noticed...
03:55 <philippeqc> already did, I'm at the max "cycle per instruction" helped, but still unplayable
03:59 <philippeqc> got it to work
03:59 <philippeqc> optimize for host cpu speed
04:01 <philippeqc> lol, its fun
04:01 <philippeqc> sad I cant rebind the keys
04:02 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: bump on success with the game
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I was playing it myself :)
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> I think UAE will let you rebind keys somehow, but I could be wrong about that
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> but no, ebonstar itself doesn't let you rebind keys. :( An obvious improvement we'd make using our engine for it
04:03 <philippeqc> no, just allow me to pick different type of joystick
04:03 <philippeqc> or mouse
04:07 <philippeqc> how do you stop it?
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot. :)
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> So I just click the close window button
04:08 <philippeqc> mouse control is not so easy
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> also directional control is hard. That's where the keys mean directions instead of rotate/thrust.
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> directional control makes sense for joystick controller, actually.
04:09 <philippeqc> yes
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the game was really fun when you played it with the 4 players it supports. It was a lot of fun then, oe of the best games ever, imo
04:09 <philippeqc> ok, I see the fun factor
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and that's what we've got, the multiplayer support....
04:10 <philippeqc> I made a small tron game back in the days. Also supported 4 players
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and an engine that's pretty close to being able to handle it, although z-man suggests gGame should be factored first.
04:10 <philippeqc> random start up position. line = 1 pixel on the screen, had a library that did 1024x768 (from prompt, not windows)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> it used to be a lot of fun to play head-to-head action games on a computer. This internet thing is fun and has its own charm, but there's still something terribly enjoyable about doig it in person
04:11 <philippeqc> yes, the "ha ha in your face" factor
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. And the "oops I spilled my drink and you died, sorry about that"
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> and you can curse at someone in realtime...
04:12 <philippeqc> at easter, had a talk about LAN with an aunt
04:12 <philippeqc> trying to explain LAN party
04:12 <philippeqc> to someone who dont really get computers
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> we always thought ebonstar was most fun when you played it collaboratively, I think it would adapt to team play very nicely.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> just tell her it's "board games with computers".
04:13 <philippeqc> ended up saying, well, you can play solitary by yourself with a deck of card, or bridge on the computer, but its much more fun to play card with people around you for the small comment and the discussion around the play.
04:13 <philippeqc> the lan party allows for that factor.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but some extra possibilities. :)
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> "You three play in that room, we three in that room, you other over there. It's teams"
04:14 <philippeqc> yes, but I've never tried that thou!
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> talking over the table in cards is rude. Quite a difference there. :)
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> me neither, actually. Never done a lan party
04:15 <philippeqc> Had a small one with like 7 friend in my app in montreal. Did mostly Half-Life. One guy never touched the game before. You can guess he was always out of ammo.
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that would be me. I'm not much for fps games
04:16 <philippeqc> but he picked the mad scientist skin. Seeing him bouncing off the walls, runing toward me with the crowbar got me laughting so hard each time, he always killed me
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> of course, id turned me against fps games by ripping off what was a really great c-64 game for one of their "demos"
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:17 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he still has his old c-64 disk image for Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
04:17 <philippeqc> or warcarf 2, playing on 2 computers nearly side by side agains a friend, exploring the game.
04:17 <philippeqc> each new unit has its own sound.
04:18 <philippeqc> After a while of play, I had invested in lots of research, and I produced a unit that came with a very deep voice and said "I'm aLiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!"
04:18 <philippeqc> my friend "Whats that????????" me: "nothing for you to worry about ;"
04:18 <philippeqc> he catched up quite fast... and then I got sloppy on the research
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:19 <philippeqc> so after a while I hear a scretching/whining from the game on his computer....
04:20 <philippeqc> "he whats up with the elephants?" I ask, realising that was a unit I havent found yet. He served me my previous answer ... "Oooo, its nothing you need for you to worry about"
04:20 <philippeqc> twas a dragon unit
04:21 <philippeqc> ok, so for Ebonstar, we need:
04:22 <philippeqc> vehicule class, gCycle becomes a sub-class
04:22 <philippeqc> ship is a sub-class of vehicule
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW
04:24 <philippeqc> o my, you dont like fps because id changed some top down action game into one?
04:28 <philippeqc> I never really liked those kind of game. There was something that annoyed me in it. Liked, no loved, the fact that you could walk in one direction and shoot in another, thought that was soooo great!
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> the problem was that they completely turned me off to the genre by taking a suspenseful game and turning it into a bloodbath
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> first impressions count for a lot
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> BCW was most fun to play when you tried to use the passes to get in and then back out. If you tried to kill everyone, it was just trouble.
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> so you had to be very selective with which gaurds you killed, make sure to drag them back out of the way where they won't be found, etc.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> then id turns it into a game where you just mow down the whole lot of them.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> I admit, I wasn't very interested in the idea of a game where you just walk around shooting people anyway, I wanted more from the game
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> but id understandably didn't provide it back then, they were doing cutting edge graphical stuff and had no time for gameplay
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what they provide now, but carmac's redeemed himself in my eyes by running Armadillo Aerospace. :)
04:47 <philippeqc> /away
04:50 <philippeqc> humm, if BCW allowed for such strategy, then yes the 3d's version by id lost this aspect to a new graphic technology.
04:50 <philippeqc> But you cant contest that it launched a totally new wave of gaming
04:52 <philippeqc> The part that I'm aware of still is the same bloodbath, but I've heard of game like Thief where caution and minimal bloodbath is prefered, and required to be successfull (I havent played it thou)
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06:24 <spider> night
06:25 -!- spider is now known as spidey
06:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: any idea how to block and revert spammers on the wiki ?
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07:35 <joda_bot> did I miss something ?
07:35 <joda_bot> gaim crashed
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08:27 <wrtlprnft> omg
08:27 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=1147591032
08:32 <wrtlprnft> [We are delicate. We do not delete your content.]
08:32 <wrtlprnft> wth does that mean?
08:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Where did you read "We are delicate.." ?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> in all those spam things
08:42 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Housing_a_million_spectators&curid=1573&diff=4372&oldid=2778&rcid=3284
08:42 <wrtlprnft> look at the second changed line
08:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: So how to ban and remove those ?
08:42 <wrtlprnft> you need sysop rights to delete pages, and only nemo and Luci have those
08:42 <wrtlprnft> but you can revert the changes like i did
08:43 <joda_bot> It's half hearted and will just mess up history...
08:43 <joda_bot> btw. does a wiki merge concurrent changes ?
08:43 <wrtlprnft> for existing pages there's no better way
08:44 <wrtlprnft> sysops have a button that makes reverting easier, but it does the same thing
08:44 <wrtlprnft> and for pages that are new... they have to be deleted anyways, so it doesn't matter if the history gets messed up
08:45 <wrtlprnft> we should just try to get that spam out of google's reach as fast as possible
08:49 <joda_bot> roger
08:50 <wrtlprnft> i hope we can get captchas soon or something similar
08:56 <joda_bot> just validate all users by email
08:56 <joda_bot> should already make it slower
08:56 <joda_bot> or let some sysop confirm each new user
08:56 <wrtlprnft> second one
08:57 <wrtlprnft> that email thing is useless. It's easy to get some e-mail adress somewhere and use it
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09:11 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got a warning on windows "autoexpanding string..."
09:11 <joda_bot> this function will go away
09:12 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:13 <wrtlprnft> that means something is requesting a nonexisting char from a string
09:13 <wrtlprnft> like, a char after the end
09:13 <wrtlprnft> go to tString::1134, after that insert a st_Breakpoint();
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and then reproduce the error in a debugger
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and see if you can get anything useful from the backtrace
09:16 <wrtlprnft> err, i mean tString.cpp:1134
09:36 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: just commiting fixed windows projects
09:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: If I have some time, I'll try to use Code::Blocks resource management to replace makedist.bat
09:40 <joda_bot> hm, perhaps I should also try to automatically set the version descriptors to the current date at build time ... might be tricky though ;)
10:00 <joda_bot> tXmlParser.cpp:553 is called with an empty string
10:00 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:00 <joda_bot> this results in the string being automatically expanded
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11:20 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: yes, joda_bot is right about the string expansion. The old tString had this as a feature, but it's evil and therefore deprecated. When merging code from b0_2_8, it occasionally gets used, though.
11:20 <z-man-home> It's a good idea to eliminate the cause of the warning.
11:21 <z-man-home> whoops, accidentally uninstalled the main master server
11:21 <n54> :o
11:22 <n54> hi btw :)
11:22 <z-man-home> joda_bot: think of the poor visualC users :) They still need makedist.bat. If you could manage the version replacement, that would be cool, though.
11:22 <z-man-home> hi
11:34 <z-man-home> 0.2.8.2_rc1 release process status report: Sources are tagged
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11:43 <guru3> anyone know anything about ptys?
11:44 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Client Quit]
11:47 <z-man-home> that's what I call a drive by question
11:47 <n54> yeah :)
11:49 <z-man-home> 0.2.8.2_rc1 release process status report: Linux 32 bit and Windows compilation running
11:59 <z-man-home> WTF? The autopackage builder isn't on my 64 bit machine at work.
12:00 <z-man-home> It was there on 0.2.8.1...
12:01 <joda_bot> z-man-home: makedist.bat does not work on my system... Would it make sense to include a python binary in Winlibs cvs ?
12:02 <joda_bot> to allow makedist.bat to work ?
12:02 <z-man-home> Python binary? No. The usual python installation is easy enough.
12:02 <joda_bot> the problem is that on my system ... even if I assiociate .py with my cygwin python2.4.exe it would execute the python stuff
12:02 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok, so we just require it to be installed
12:03 <z-man-home> yes
12:03 <z-man-home> We don't require the libraries to be installed because that's a pain to set up in Windows, but Python is easy.
12:04 <joda_bot> ok ... but did it ever work for you to call sortresource.py from makedist.bat ?
12:04 <z-man-home> yes
12:04 <z-man-home> Otherwise, I wouldn't do it :)
12:04 <joda_bot> z-man-home: oh, right I can't build HEAD with memorymanager (in debug mode)
12:05 <z-man-home> May be a Windows version issue, I'm on 2000
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: me too
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: guess it's a cygwin's python problem
12:05 <z-man-home> I don't actually know what Python build I'm using :)
12:06 <z-man-home> Usually I stay away from cygwin, so I guess it's not that.
12:06 <joda_bot> z-man-home: tMemManger.cpp:457 fails
12:06 <z-man-home> to compile or to run?
12:06 <joda_bot> runtime
12:07 <joda_bot> If I'd know what all those tAsserts try to assert ... it might help me understand the problem
12:07 <joda_bot> but I guess I really have to spend atleast a day reading tMemManager.cpp ;)
12:09 <joda_bot> Are there any preconditions for the memory manager to work ?
12:09 <joda_bot> like no compiler optimazations ?
12:09 <joda_bot> I might have activated those for debug mode
12:11 <z-man-home> No, it should always work
12:12 <z-man-home> I fixed a bug in the trunk that made it fail on large allocations, it's unfixed in the branches becasue we don't do them there and the memory manager isn't used on releases
12:13 <z-man-home> Hmm, the assertion may be triggered if there is a memory overwrite error
12:14 <z-man-home> It's in the deallocation portion and checks whether the management data makes sense
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12:14 * z-man-home curses at autopackage
12:20 <z-man-home> where are the fucking amd64 binaries? I mean, I have already used them! They must exist somewhere!
12:24 <guru3> not as bad as pty support suddenly disapearing :/
12:25 <z-man-home> that's what you say :( I'm questioning my sanity here.
12:25 <guru3> that's the last time i try to make something better
12:25 <z-man-home> What is pty anyway? Souds like terminal stuff
12:25 <guru3> yes
12:25 <guru3> it's like what screen uses
12:25 <n54> yes pseudo terminal
12:25 <guru3> consequence is that i can't use screen as a regular user now
12:25 <guru3> WOOO for gentoo! :D
12:26 <guru3> </sarcasm>
12:26 <guru3> i'm probably going to have to reinstall
12:26 <n54> hehe
12:26 <z-man-home> ugh, support for that can go away????
12:26 <guru3> aparently
12:26 <guru3> i think some update to pam fucking screwed it up
12:26 <guru3> and there's like _nothing_ on this
12:26 <guru3> in any documentation
12:26 <guru3> it's just doesn't work anymore
12:26 <n54> yeah there's little on ptys
12:26 <guru3> rephrase: there's no gentoo documentation about this screwing up
12:26 <n54> I looked a bit around google and there's not much
12:27 <z-man-home> The next time such a shit happens to me, I'm switching to Debian.
12:28 <z-man-home> Luckily for Gentoo, it's behaving well for me.
12:28 <n54> perhaps reading man openpty might help guru3? (I just see it in apropos)
12:28 <n54> or forkpty
12:28 <guru3> NO
12:28 <guru3> i want it to work like it did before
12:28 <guru3> i should NOT have to install something else
12:29 <n54> hey we all mess stuff up from time to time, it's part of learning
12:31 <guru3> finally found something
12:31 <n54> perhaps it works for other users than your normal one? tried creating a new user?
12:31 <guru3> 2 hours later
12:31 <guru3> now to just get x working again
12:32 <mkzelda> anyone know how to spell luci's last name
12:32 <mkzelda> trying to look at his personal site
12:32 <n54> Fancella afaik, hold on
12:32 <n54> yeah Fancella
12:32 <mkzelda> thanks
12:33 <guru3> gah sound is broken now too
12:33 <guru3> this SUCKS
12:33 <n54> what did you do to start all this guru3? :)
12:34 <guru3> upgrade xorg
12:34 <guru3> gargh blah
12:34 <n54> wow that's bad
12:36 <guru3> and now for vt switching to work
12:36 <mkzelda> there was an update to gentoo where pam or shadow had a package block, is that what u hit?
12:36 <guru3> there's this damn app i have to emerge
12:36 <guru3> and i can't remember what it is
12:37 <mkzelda> if u didnt update correctly you could lock yourself out of your machine
12:37 <guru3> i'm not locked out
12:37 <mkzelda> u cant screen as another user tho?
12:38 <guru3> i fixed that
12:38 <guru3> that was something else
12:38 <mkzelda> what now?
12:38 <guru3> now
12:38 <guru3> vt switching doesn't work
12:38 <mkzelda> heh
12:38 <mkzelda> keymap problem or vts arent created?
12:39 <guru3> keymap problem
12:40 <z-man-home> 0.2.8.2_rc1 release process status report: Linux 64 bit builds are rolling.
12:41 <guru3> to fix list: vt switching; sound
12:41 <guru3> because of all the funtastic things it seems to have lost my damn soundcard
12:44 <guru3> FUCKKKK
12:44 <guru3> GARGH
12:44 <guru3> this is driving me nuts toay
12:44 <guru3> *today
12:44 <guru3> obviously i need more sleep
12:46 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes, tXmlParser gets called with an empty string
12:47 <guru3> what did i do to deserve this :(
12:48 <wrtlprnft> :(
12:48 * z-man-home postpones his Xorg update
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: uh, err, scratch that. It shouldn't.
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what calls tXmlParser with an empty string? the cockpit? the rotation? the maps?
12:49 <guru3> in other news
12:49 <guru3> exiting by your window
12:49 <guru3> is not a good idea here
12:50 <guru3> cause it's a lot further to the ground than you think
12:50 <z-man-home> guru3: umm, have you tested that theory in practice?
12:50 <guru3> yes i had to go outside just now
12:51 <guru3> and i didn't feel like putting on shoes
12:51 <z-man-home> ouch
12:51 <guru3> and going the long way around on the gravel
12:51 <guru3> so i thought why not pop out the window
12:51 <guru3> and save several feet of gravel
12:51 <n54> ground floor I hope
12:51 <guru3> yes
12:51 <n54> :D
12:51 <guru3> but there's like 20 or 30cm difference in hight
12:51 <guru3> which makes getting in extremely difficult
12:51 <mkzelda> guru3: switch to BarbieOS
12:52 <z-man-home> mkzelda: whazzad? Windows XP?
12:52 <mkzelda> http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/barbieOS.htm
12:52 <guru3> don't be a smartallac
12:52 <n54> don't add insult to injury
12:52 <mkzelda> rofl
12:52 <n54> it's based on debian! XD
12:53 <n54> we have just seen the face of satan :S
12:53 <mkzelda> haha, i was positive it was a joke for a while
12:54 <n54> no it looks like it's for real
12:54 <mkzelda> well then theres the link of the ppl dead in piracy raid
12:54 <n54> ??
12:55 <mkzelda> look at the links at the bottom
12:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess the cockpit file is not found or broken (not sure)
12:55 * n54 ins't sure he want's to opent hat page again
12:55 <mkzelda> metallica fights against underage drinking and loud music
12:56 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
12:56 <@guru3> don't try me right now
12:56 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: but the basic problem is that GetProp("string") returns NULL or "" which is converted to an empty string by tString
12:56 <n54> hmm ok perhaps it's just a joke then
12:56 <joda_bot> and an access to string[0] expands it by 1 :|
12:57 <wrtlprnft> it should return an empty tString
12:57 <z-man-home> Umm, maybe the expansion code is a bit too proactive
12:58 <wrtlprnft> can you find out the arguments of that GetProp call?
12:58 <joda_bot> the getPropBool in tXMLParser is flawed in my view
12:58 <joda_bot> it can't handle a missing propertie
12:58 <joda_bot> either an exception has to thrown or a NULL pointer has to be returned
12:58 <joda_bot> e.g. change signature to bool ?
12:58 <joda_bot> bool *
12:58 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah now i see
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: it's happening while parsing lucifers cockpit file
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: until later ... need some rest... hope to be back in 1h and 30 min
13:00 <wrtlprnft> k
13:00 <joda_bot> but there should be enough players for the 8th ;)
13:00 <joda_bot> 4 vs. 6 or something like that
13:01 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: ok, fixed it i hope
13:20 <z-man-home> Waa! CVS Test just crashed :(
13:20 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
13:20 <wrtlprnft> happy bugfixing
13:21 <wrtlprnft> looks like ftgl only takes wchars for unicode, so i assume that I have to convert :(
13:21 <z-man-home> It's running the code that's in the release I just put together :|
13:21 <z-man-home> yes, looks like you have to convert
13:22 <wrtlprnft> so i have to convert every character for every frame? that seems a bit resource hungry
13:22 <wrtlprnft> it's a rc, right?
13:22 <z-man-home> yes
13:22 <wrtlprnft> just pretend the crash happened after the release ;)
13:22 <z-man-home> haha
13:22 <z-man-home> Stupid thing is, it's already the second one
13:23 <z-man-home> the first one happened this morning, but it didn't happen again on playback
13:23 <wrtlprnft> some real- world glitch?
13:23 <mkzelda> is now a bad time to checkout?
13:23 <z-man-home> That's what I tought this morning
13:23 <z-man-home> naa
13:24 <z-man-home> mkzelda: the Trunk probably isn't affected
13:24 <mkzelda> okay
13:24 <wrtlprnft> CVS HEAD is working fine
13:24 <z-man-home> I bet it's one of my perfectly riskless fixes :|
13:24 <wrtlprnft> haha
13:25 <wrtlprnft> do you have a core dump/backtrace?
13:25 <z-man-home> I have a recording
13:25 <wrtlprnft> doesn't help if it won't crash again
13:25 <z-man-home> Playing it back in the debugger right now
13:25 <z-man-home> the crash from just now does happen again
13:25 <z-man-home> well, it did happen again once
13:26 <z-man-home> Hope the debugger doesn't make it go away
13:26 <z-man-home> gaa, playing back the wrong recording...
13:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:27 * z-man-home has to prepare dinner
13:28 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
13:28 <wrtlprnft> don't rush yourself... doesn't matter if we release now or next week...
13:29 <wrtlprnft> I don't see anyone using that ***** bug on any server yet
13:29 <spidey> wrtlprnft, wanna practice?
13:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, wait a few secs
13:29 <spidey> k
13:29 <spidey> i'll be in there
13:35 <wrtlprnft> blah
13:35 <wrtlprnft> CVS test is full and i need practice :(
13:35 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't mind i it crashed again right now
14:18 <z-man-home> I think the release trouble is the Universe's revenge for making fun of guru3's problems earlier.
14:18 <z-man-home> It probably thinks it can educate me, ha!
14:20 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:37 <wrtlprnft> ok, now i'm desperate... restarting
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:08:55 2006
15:08 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:08 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
15:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 15 secs
15:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnf1_: wb
15:09 <joda_bot> we're all ready to go
15:09 <wrtlprnf1_> i know...
15:10 <@guru3> good night
15:10 <n54> cya guru3 :)
15:10 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:12 <z-man-home> a spoon match tonight?
15:24 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:26 <n54> I think it might just be a friendly? not sure
15:28 <z-man-home> Yes, I remember from the forum discussion that there were objections against something counting for spoon
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:46:33 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:46:48 2006
15:46 -!- wrtlprnf5_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:46 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
15:46 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
15:57 <wrtlprnf5_> #echo am i online?
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:57:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:02:56 2006
16:02 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:02 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
16:03 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:03 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:03 <armabot> am i online?
16:03 <wrtlprnft> good
16:05 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:05 <armabot> am i online?
16:05 <n54> you are on my end of the line at least ;)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> well, 6 seconds of lag IRSSI tells me
16:06 <n54> gah that's a lot
16:07 <wrtlprnft> one would say so
16:11 <spidey> wrtl
16:11 <spidey> we won 3 outta 5 :p
16:16 <wrtlprnft> niiice
16:16 <wrtlprnft> great job
16:16 <wrtlprnft> I had a major nervous breakdown here
16:17 <spidey> lol
16:17 <spidey> 8th won 1 match
16:17 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:17 <spidey> i'm suprised how much better most of mbc got
16:17 <wrtlprnft> who won the 5th one then?
16:17 <spidey> noone
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:17 <spidey> we played best of 5
16:17 <spidey> we won 3
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:17 <spidey> tey won 1
16:17 <wrtlprnft> let's see how we'll do vs. AW
16:17 <spidey> i love my ping in the spoon server to :<
16:17 <spidey> :>*
16:18 <spidey> 168-178
16:18 <wrtlprnft> well, my lag was a total mess
16:18 <spidey> in cvs it's about 210
16:18 <spidey> :<
16:18 <wrtlprnft> it went up to 900 at some times
16:18 <wrtlprnft> and down to 250 again... totally messed up
16:18 <wrtlprnft> !
16:18 <wrtlprnft> 14s lag to the IRC server
--- Log closed Sun May 14 16:21:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:21:47 2006
16:21 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:21 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
16:21 <wrtlprnf1_> ...
16:21 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:22 <spidey> lol
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> can't even access the armabot logs
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> or kick the other wrtlprnf1_ variations
16:23 <wrtlprnf1_> they're all in use, waiting to time out
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> wrtlprnft: DIE!
16:24 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> lol
16:24 <spidey> lol
16:24 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:24 <spidey> wrtl you got wrtlprnft registered?
16:24 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:24 <wrtlprnft> and wrtlprnft_
16:25 <spidey> ok next time it's stuck like that do /msg nickserv ghost name password
16:25 <spidey> so /msg nickserv ghost wrtlprnft yourpassword
16:25 <spidey> it'll kill the nick
16:25 <wrtlprnft> yeah, thanks
16:25 <wrtlprnft> i thought you had to be registered with an alternate nick for that
16:26 <wrtlprnft> that linking buisness
16:27 <spidey> #ping
16:27 <armabot> pong
16:27 <spidey> k
16:27 <spidey> weird
16:27 <spidey> i got disconnected from the router
16:27 <spidey> but i'm still here
16:27 <wrtlprnft> i see that
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, no
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, if you have 1 registered nick
16:30 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:30 <spidey> and 1 nick you want to be registered
16:30 <spidey> instead of going threw all that crap
16:30 <spidey> you can link the unregistered nick
16:30 <spidey> with the registered nick
16:30 <spidey> ./msg nickserv help link
16:31 <wrtlprnft> hmm ok... well, having wrtlprnft_ registered doesn't hurt
16:31 <spidey> nope :p
16:31 <spidey> i don't have spidey registered :/
16:32 <spidey> awe
16:32 <spidey> -NickServ- The nickname [spidey] is already registered
16:33 <wrtlprnft> it is? not by you?
16:33 <spidey> no :/
16:33 <wrtlprnft> try spidey_arma :D
16:34 <spidey> hmm
16:34 -!- spidey is now known as spider
16:34 -!- spider is now known as Anthrax
16:34 <Anthrax> wtf
16:34 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:34 <Anthrax> all the names i use are registered
16:34 <Anthrax> :/
16:34 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles?
16:34 -!- Anthrax is now known as McSpiddles
16:34 <McSpiddles> :)
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!- : is identified to services
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!- End of WHOIS
16:35 <wrtlprnft> that's your whois :D
16:35 <McSpiddles> :D
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:37 <wrtlprnft_konver> yeah it works, i get the msgs
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:49 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: congratulations ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> spidey: You really did an excellent defense ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> ok I'm off to bed and going to try to cure my cold
16:49 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-035-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, don't congratulate me
16:50 <wrtlprnft> i didn't do anything
16:55 <McSpiddles> lol
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:09:50 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:10:57 2006
17:10 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:10 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
17:10 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 6 secs
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:33:36 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:38:56 2006
17:38 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:38 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
17:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
17:39 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:43 <n54> :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/03/15/the-creation/
17:51 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:52 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
17:54 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:55 <ghableska> hi
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:55 <n54> hi :)
17:55 <ghableska> :)
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hope you guys had fun with the match :)
17:55 <ghableska> ?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> MBC vs 8T
17:55 <wrtlprnft> weren't you playing?
17:55 <ghableska> no...
17:55 <ghableska> was there an impostor?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, sorry
17:56 <ghableska> lol
17:56 <ghableska> np
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i'm confused
17:56 <ghableska> i'm aw
17:56 <ghableska> not 8th
17:56 <ghableska> :P
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't really playing
17:57 <wrtlprnft> my internet connection broke just in time
17:57 <ghableska> nice
17:57 <ghableska> yay!
17:57 <ghableska> i found out about the high scores page on the mbc site...
17:57 <wrtlprnft> it's still kinda messed up
17:57 <wrtlprnft> which one?
17:57 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/mbc.php ?
17:58 <ghableska> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=tron2
17:58 <wrtlprnft> bah
17:58 <ghableska> lol
17:59 <wrtlprnft> mine's better (of course) ;)
17:59 <ghableska> so...
17:59 <ghableska> duh ;)
17:59 <wrtlprnft> heh. it manages clan tags and stuff
17:59 <ghableska> yeah
18:00 <wrtlprnft> and it's valid XHTML
18:08 <ghableska> brb
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
18:13 <n54> do you?
18:13 <wrtlprnft> had you, that is
18:13 <wrtlprnft> *did you have
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't
18:14 <n54> did do what had who?
18:15 <wrtlprnft> ?!
18:16 <n54> :)
18:16 <ghableska> back
18:16 <wrtlprnft> look at gCycle.cpp:2213
18:16 <n54> ghabba ghabba hey :)
18:16 <ghableska> ;)
18:17 <wrtlprnft> 2238 class gJustChecking
18:17 <wrtlprnft> 2241 static bool justChecking;
18:17 <wrtlprnft> 2243 gJustChecking(){ justChecking = false; }
18:17 <wrtlprnft> 2244 ~gJustChecking(){ justChecking = true; }
18:17 <n54> just checking what?
18:22 * n54 is just checking ;P
18:28 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
19:04 <wrtlprnft> just checking whatever
19:04 <wrtlprnft> looks like some temporary code that wasn't removed
19:05 <wrtlprnft> or no, nerver mind
19:05 <wrtlprnft> it actually gets used
19:07 <n54> looks weird to be but I'm no c person :)
19:07 <n54> me*
19:07 <wrtlprnft> looks like it has something to do wit z-man's future wall code
19:07 <n54> watch out! ;P
19:08 <n54> *a wall zomm fromthe future into the past, narrowly missing n54 & wrtlprnft* :)
19:08 <n54> zooms*
19:08 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, 4-dimensional walls!
19:08 <n54> hyperwalls?
19:09 <wrtlprnft> spacetime- walls
19:09 <n54> oh
19:09 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, another one!
19:09 <n54> :)
--- Log closed Sun May 14 19:09:26 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 19:09:54 2006
19:09 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
19:09 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
19:09 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
19:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:10 <n54> hehe :D
19:13 <wrtlprnft> now that i merged all that code, let's see if it compiles :)
19:13 <n54> :)
19:14 <wrtlprnft> I can't wait for the day arma supports shooting without hacks...
19:14 <wrtlprnft> this sucks, the next time there's a greater modification of the zone code i'm doomed
19:15 <wrtlprnft> or that patch is... or it'll be some work getting it back to work
19:15 <n54> shooting?
19:16 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:16 <wrtlprnft> or actually laying mines
19:16 <wrtlprnft> lots of fun on my race server
19:16 <wrtlprnft> gets people to go their own ways and not just follow the guy that happens to be first
19:17 <n54> I like the purity of walls only myself so I'm not waiting ;)
19:17 <wrtlprnft> heh
19:17 <wrtlprnft> lotsa walls and deatzones on that server too
19:17 <wrtlprnft> *deathzones
19:18 <n54> to each their own and all that
19:18 <wrtlprnft> hehe
19:18 <wrtlprnft> at least you're not like silly
19:19 <n54> ?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> oh, he's like against anything
19:19 <n54> never met that person afaik
19:19 <n54> unless you mean oscilloscope?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> and he tells that to everyone, no matter if he wants to hear that or not
19:19 <wrtlprnft> yes i do
19:19 <wrtlprnft> silly fits better imho
19:19 <n54> ah ok well I barely know him either so :)
19:20 <n54> as long as it's all optional there's no problem imo
19:20 <wrtlprnft> exactly
19:20 <wrtlprnft> I really think he should jsut use 0.2.6 and stfu about newer versions
19:20 <n54> probably even a good thing
19:20 <wrtlprnft> oh, no :(
19:21 <wrtlprnft> compile failed
19:21 <n54> :S
19:22 <n54> I would like sprite-based walls and light effects, but I'm very patient; I don't expect something like that until like in ten years or something :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:23 <wrtlprnft> that's more GLTron's buisness
19:23 <n54> and I can't "demand" anything until I can scratch my own back anyway :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> O_o
19:24 <n54> as in the expression :)
19:24 <n54> I can actually scratch my own back in real life in case you misunderstood :D
19:24 <wrtlprnft> guess so
19:25 <n54> you know the idiom "I'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine"?
19:25 <n54> /s/and/if
19:26 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:26 <n54> ok :)
19:32 <wrtlprnft> yay gCycle.cpp compiled
19:32 <wrtlprnft> debugging is so much fun on that server
19:32 <wrtlprnft> compiling that file alone takes 45 seconds
19:36 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
19:37 <wrtlprnft> now i have to recompile everything since that stupid diff command merged some function into a private section, but it should have been public
20:08 <n54> huh now the main pc works again :| *enjoys music while I've got it*
20:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:09 <n54> I've only got sound on my main pc :) (until later at least)
20:09 <wrtlprnft> you too?
20:09 <n54> since I run off a cd on this one and the last one isn't installed properly yet
20:09 <wrtlprnft> i thought guru3 was the one with the sound probs
20:10 <n54> oh no this is entirely unconnected to guru3's problems
20:10 <n54> and this one would have sun if I did a proper install on it in all likelihood, either alsa or oss
20:10 <n54> sound*
20:13 <n54> all my entertainment is on the main pc so it's nice to have it up again :D
20:17 <n54> happy happy joy ooy XD
20:17 <n54> joy*
20:26 <wrtlprnft> what e-mail client would you recommend for a REALLY slow windows 98 box?
20:27 <wrtlprnft> I got thunderbird for my homestay mom, but it's really slow and messed up. I don't wanna set up outlook for obvious reasons...
20:28 <n54> hmm I would try thunderbird just to see but perhaps opera?
20:29 <n54> sure the machine isn't clogged up by spyware and the like?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> thunderbird is already on there, and it sucks
20:29 <n54> ah ok
20:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, the install is about 3 months old, but i have no idea what she
20:29 <wrtlprnft> 's doing
20:30 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to use opera and get it to look about like outlook/thunderbird
20:30 <n54> opera shouldn't be slow at least
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
20:31 <wrtlprnft> although it won't be blazing fast on there either
20:31 <n54> if it is and all she does is the web & mail combo then a small linux install like knoppix might be the trick
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah... i was thinking about that
20:32 <wrtlprnft> but she uses word and powerpoint :(
20:32 <n54> but try only the cd first so she can change her mind
20:32 <wrtlprnft> and well, openoffice doesn't run at all on that thing
20:32 <n54> ah ok, yeah then it becomes a bigger deal, she can't be forced then
20:32 <wrtlprnft> exactly
20:32 <wrtlprnft> if it was not for ms office i would switch her over and she would barely notice
20:34 <n54> I haven't tried office under wine myself so... because that would really be the only solution that doesn't involve tons of extra work on her part (I used to teach people office among other things, it's astonishing how hard it can be for a lot of people)
20:34 <wrtlprnft> let's try opera... all depends on whether i'll manage to import the thunderbird mails
20:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, bu office under wine... that's even slower
20:34 <n54> :)
20:35 <wrtlprnft> at least opera is nice and small...
20:37 <n54> :)
20:37 * n54 is so happy now that he has music - sickly, depressingly, candy-sweet happy ^_^
20:37 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:38 <n54> :D
20:41 <wrtlprnft> there we go
20:41 <wrtlprnft> importing... impressive :)
20:41 <n54> :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> uh, err
20:42 <wrtlprnft> that computer just started playing music when importing...
20:42 <wrtlprnft> *while
20:43 <wrtlprnft> Processing messages (-4%) (Tot:54)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> what does that negative sign do there?
20:44 <n54> no idea, preparing itself?
20:44 <wrtlprnft> erll, the messages are already appearing in the inbox in the background
20:44 <wrtlprnft> not it's -1%
20:44 <wrtlprnft> is that a step back or forward now?
20:45 <wrtlprnft> *now
20:47 <n54> this is from opera?
20:47 <n54> imo it would be forward (closer to positive) but that all depends I guess :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> well, that Total:x count is counting upwards, so I'm happy :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell mcspiddles "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:55 <wrtlprnft> can't people just stick ot one nick? :o
20:55 <n54> poor guy :)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:56 <wrtlprnft> hmm, that server takes just one little configuration change and it'll be a server with shooting :)
20:56 <wrtlprnft> imagine shooting the defender :D
20:56 <wrtlprnft> but I guess i won't enable it or it's not a suitable practice server
21:02 <wrtlprnft> #seen a
21:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: a was last seen in #armagetron 5 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 47 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <a> ?!
21:02 <wrtlprnft> ... and that guy is screwing up the arma stats
21:05 <n54> :)
21:07 <wrtlprnft> 617 mails... how many does she have?
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 619/-2*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (619 / -2) * 100 = -30,950
21:08 <wrtlprnft> so she has 30,950 mails it seems
21:08 <wrtlprnft> *-
21:10 <n54> :D
21:10 <wrtlprnft> woot woot
21:10 <wrtlprnft> it's at POSITIVE 3% now
21:10 <n54> lol
21:10 <wrtlprnft> #g 641/3*100
21:10 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (641 / 3) * 100 = 21,366.6667
21:10 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:10 <wrtlprnft> still lots of mails
21:10 <wrtlprnft> !
21:11 <wrtlprnft> 5%
21:11 <n54> yup
21:11 <wrtlprnft> going really rapid now
21:11 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <wrtlprnft> -5% now
21:11 <wrtlprnft> ...
21:12 <wrtlprnft> that thing is playing games with me
21:12 <n54> better not delete any! :D
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i hope it's not importing the same few mails over and over agaibn
21:12 <wrtlprnft> it almost looks like it
21:13 <n54> why would it do that though?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> i don't know.
21:13 <wrtlprnft> thinderbird's mail DB must be pretty messed up, or it wouldn't behave so weird
21:13 <wrtlprnft> and it crashed like twice per day
21:13 <n54> strange
21:14 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!!!
21:14 <wrtlprnft> it went from Trash to Sent
21:14 <n54> ?
21:15 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> that means it can't be stuck in an endless loop :)
21:15 <n54> hmm
21:15 <wrtlprnft> it displays what it is currently importing
21:15 <wrtlprnft> first it was inbox, then trash, and now sent
21:15 <n54> sounds reasonable to me so far, and there might be multiple inboxes etc. as well
21:16 <wrtlprnft> :(
21:16 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:16 <n54> I almost always segregate stuff that way
21:16 <wrtlprnft> maybe the - is indicating in what direction the percentage is growing?
21:16 <n54> no idea really
21:17 <wrtlprnft> like, it's an estimate, you don't know how big the mails and attachments are, and it is guessing?
21:17 <n54> btw hi GodTodd
21:17 <n54> yeah perhaps
21:17 <n54> ops once again I mistook a leaving for an entry :P
21:17 <wrtlprnft> so if it is on some huge attachment it is thinking there might be more of those
21:17 <wrtlprnft> cya
21:17 <n54> yeah
21:17 <wrtlprnft> and terefore it adjusts the percentage to something smaller
21:18 <n54> mm
21:20 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:20 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:20 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:20 -!- _GodTodd is now known as GodTodd
21:21 <n54> hi there GodTodd
21:21 <GodTodd> hello
21:21 * wrtlprnft stopped saying hi to people since he got told off by z-man :D
21:22 <n54> for saying hello???
21:22 <wrtlprnft> for saying wb, to be exact
21:22 * n54 better watch it then :S
21:22 <wrtlprnft> he says it's useless and i shouldn't unless i had something else to say
21:23 <GodTodd> hmmm....half of human communication, if viewed objectively, is useless :D
21:23 <n54> well yeah that's kind of true, it depends a bit on the channel and such
21:23 <n54> only half? :o
21:23 <GodTodd> at least
21:23 <GodTodd> i was being conservative ;)
21:23 <n54> I thought it was a dead 100% :D
21:24 <n54> (not that it stops be gabbering lol)
21:24 <n54> me*
21:24 <GodTodd> nor me ;)
21:25 <n54> some fo the freenode channels are very strickt and with reason (people don't want their program calling ofr attention unless it's something "real")
21:25 <wrtlprnft> woo 1000 messages
21:25 <n54> :)
21:26 <wrtlprnft> well if you just entered it doesn't really matter
21:26 <n54> yeah
21:26 <wrtlprnft> you just opened the damn thing, so you should stick around for a few seconds
21:26 <n54> could be automagic :)
21:26 <n54> startup etc.
21:26 <wrtlprnft> mine is
21:26 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't call for attention until i log in
21:27 <wrtlprnft> so it runs in some detached screen session and doesn't bother me
21:28 <n54> yeah it's sort of the same here - although gaim in it's infinite betaness doesn't stop scrolling when it doesn't have focus (yet, might be in the works)
21:28 <wrtlprnft> bah gaim
21:28 <n54> :)
21:29 <wrtlprnft> what?
21:29 <n54> what what?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> now it's back to inbox again?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> oh no...
21:29 <n54> probably another one, I'm not surprised if she & others have many
21:29 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:30 <n54> because lumping all kinds of different types of mail into the same inbox is just a mess
21:30 <wrtlprnft> opera just puts all into one DB
21:30 <n54> even if you ahve inboxes for different mail-accounts?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, no
21:31 <n54> ok :)
21:31 <wrtlprnft> but she has just one
21:31 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
21:31 <n54> how would you know?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> i can forget the whole thing...
21:31 <n54> ?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> opera can't make HTML mails
21:32 <wrtlprnft> *send
21:32 <n54> it can't?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> no, and it's not a bad thing
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but she wants those...
21:32 <n54> I agree but it still surprises me, are you sure?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> yes i am
21:32 * n54 uses only pure text
21:32 <wrtlprnft> it's an ongoing discussion in tons of forums
21:32 <n54> ok
21:33 <wrtlprnft> but opera doesn't support them
21:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll let that import run anyways, but i fear opera isn't an option...
21:35 <wrtlprnft> any other clients?
21:36 <n54> hmm
21:36 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A95C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <n54> must be something more exotic then I guess
21:36 <wrtlprnft> exotic == doesn't feel like thunderbird i fear
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylpheed
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that looks kinda promising...
21:39 <wrtlprnft> but i don't see that it supports html mails at all...
21:39 <n54> hmm yes
21:40 <n54> perhaps the claws addon thingy
21:40 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is, all windows mail clients with html support need an html engine...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> that's IE, ff and opera
21:40 <n54> this one had something called dillo?
21:40 <wrtlprnft> dillo... well...
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it's nice and fast, but has no CSS support
21:42 <wrtlprnft> and it can't send HTML mails, anyways
21:42 <wrtlprnft> which puts it onto the same level as opera
21:45 <n54> there's some at sf but not sure if any really meet your needs http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=mail+client&type_of_search=soft
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients#Features
21:46 <wrtlprnft> most of them are commercial or not available for windows or mozilla- related or IE- related
21:46 <wrtlprnft> commercial = pay software
21:46 <wrtlprnft> she won't pay for an email client
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> WELCOME BACK DUDEZ!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?!
21:47 * Lucifer_arma looks for his brush
21:47 <n54> yikes again lol
21:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, Lucifer_arma seems to be shocked by his vacation
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sorry, I was scrolling up to see what I missed
21:47 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> and then the ODD kicked in....
21:47 <n54> ODD?
21:47 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> opera is finished
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> Oppositional Defiant Disorder
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> it means I'm a punk :)
21:48 <n54> as long as you don't make me feel like Clint Eastwood I gues hat's ok :)
21:48 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's self-diagnosed purely for fun
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> Go ahead, punk. Make my day.
21:48 <n54> hehe
21:48 <n54> I'm sorry Dave, I cannot let you do that
21:48 <n54> XD
21:49 * n54 has been waiting for a chance to say that lol
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> punk
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:49 <n54> heh :)
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> found my brush
21:49 <n54> toilet or teeth?
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> hair brush, man
21:49 <n54> lol
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh good. with my hair brushed, I feel human
21:52 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> bye deja_vu
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> is deja_vu_ a bot?
21:53 <n54> nope
21:53 <n54> from switzerland iirc
21:53 <n54> where it's also about 0456 now, like here
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah, I know. just starting trouble....
21:54 <n54> :)
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> last time I suggested he was a bot, he came in here and chewed me a new asshole
21:54 <n54> really? lol
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, should I bring in my event manager from my aborted cpp version of acme, or should I take wrtlprnft's cockpit callback system and use it to construct an all-new event manager?
21:56 <n54> go all new
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I was looking at pui, thinking about what we needed to do just to get to where we can try it, and figured out that the input system needs serious work
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> ala event manager type of work. Figured if I threw in an event manager to handle input with the current code, others would start filling it out to handle game events
21:57 <n54> yeah it should be fairly well thought-out and specific, that way it'll probably make more sense in the long run
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, this'll be the third or fourth event manager I've tackled. I won't claim to be an expert, but I think I know what it definitely needs, and what I need to think about working on it :)
21:58 <n54> :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's another one of those things where if I can just get it building and working with a few objects, others around here can extend it quite well
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I figured I'd write it up and see if I can pull the GUI out into its own space without having to serious refactor it
22:00 <n54> god my main machine sounds like a vacuum-cleaner *shuts it off and prays it will turn on again next time too*
22:00 <n54> hmm sounds good
22:06 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:06 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:06 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> always funny, that smiley is
22:06 <n54> :) <- that one?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> you could translate it to cya wrtlprnft *phew! he's gone! finally!*
22:07 <n54> lol no I don't use smiles that way
22:07 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:07 <n54> :)
22:13 <n54> shit it's monday... I thought it would be sunday :|
--- Log closed Sun May 14 22:22:53 2006
--- Log opened Mon May 15 07:13:22 2006
07:13 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
07:13 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
07:13 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
07:22 <McSpiddles> :)
07:22 -!- McSpiddles is now known as McSpiddles|zZzZz
07:40 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
07:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&hidepatrolled=0&limit=100
07:52 <wrtlprnft> bot
07:54 <guru3> WELL
07:54 <guru3> *well
07:54 <guru3> very few things in my life have gone worse
07:55 <z-man> you mean your upgrade?
07:55 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
07:55 <guru3> my exam
07:56 <z-man> whoooops
07:56 <guru3> who gives a crap about the upgrade
07:56 <guru3> that may piss me off but i can deal with software problems
07:56 <z-man> But you can't possibly have the results already, can you?
07:56 <guru3> no
07:56 <guru3> but you can have a feel
07:57 <guru3> and leaving answers blank
07:57 <guru3> never makes you feel good about an exam
07:57 <z-man> Yeah, but unless you turned in a blank sheet, you can't be sure
07:57 <guru3> that's very optimistic
07:57 <guru3> but i just feel bad now :/
07:58 <z-man> Our exams here are always designed so than absolutely noone has enough time to answer all the questions
07:58 <guru3> and my arms hurt for some weird reason
07:58 <guru3> probably playing too much beethoven on the piano :/
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I threw together a test drupal site with the wiki component, unfortunately it has a pretty nasty bug
08:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
09:38 <z-man> Tomatoes make poor office plants. They need too much water. Mine looked almost dead already twice ;( Luckily, it is also quick to recover.
09:49 <guru3> you keep a tomatoe plant in your office?
10:04 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:24 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
10:26 <z-man> guru3: yes, a decorational one. I don't think you'll be able to eat the fruit, I don't even sure whether it'll bear one.
10:27 <z-man> The funny thing is, it came out of a can :)
10:27 <z-man> Like a plant for dummies. I just had to open the can and add water.
10:27 <z-man> Lots of water, it seems.
10:31 <guru3> cool
10:32 <n54> on the font thing; requiring more glyphs is like requiring multi-platform support for code; in the end it contributes more to the quality of "itself" than one would think
10:33 <z-man> I don't think that if I did a font, making me draw all those Chinese things would improve the quality of my work :)
10:34 <z-man> With code, the goal is to support many platforms/compilers with the same lines of code. You don't write the code anew for every platform. I don't think the font/code comparison holds.
10:35 <n54> I agree that would be excessive (but it still would actually, just as long as you speak and write chinese well enough not to make mistakes) :)
10:35 <n54> yes and the same is actually true for real font design, you want the idea of your font to be applicable to as much as possible
10:36 <z-man> Chinese and Japanese and Hebrew and whatnot else
10:37 <z-man> Hmm, you've got a point with your style argument.
10:38 <n54> yes I know ;) but yeah I think we actually agree because I'm not going to make 60000+ chinese glyphs for any font I make XD
10:38 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:40 <n54> one solution could be to have a base font with "everything" and then specific fonts replacing a subset but I'm not sure how the program would check for missing characters in the "2nd layer font"
10:40 <z-man> I think the font knows which glyphs are set and which are empty
10:41 <n54> ok
10:41 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
10:45 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090A95C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
10:56 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #Armagetron
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but to be honest, unless someone volunteers to make a chinese/hebrew/arabic font, we're just going to find one and stick it in there
11:26 * Lucifer_arma notes that he wanted wrtlprnft to do the font because wrtlprnft cares about all the accents and stuff, which is reasonable to require in the base font
11:26 * Lucifer_arma wouldn't have cared about them, they don't show up in english.
11:30 <n54> fonts might very well turn out as collaborative efforts in the end, which is probably ideal in some ways
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, the source file we're using is in cvs. :)
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Also, wrtlprnft did the last big font revision and was already well familiar with it.
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Speaking of whiches...
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft The period in the font is off-centered. It's all the way to the left, so decimal numbers look weird. 1.0 and stuff. The period is right after the 1, and then a big gap to the 0.
11:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but even if he hadn't jumped on it so quick and I kept plugging away, I would've stopped when I had all the regular english characters and proceeded to take bitching over not putting any of the rest in :)
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but I can't even promise doing punctuation, heh
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, it would be nice if people volunteered to make fonts for other languages that match the style in this one, or to add the characters to this font or whatever.
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> but for the same reason I wouldn't do all those extra characters, I just don't see wrtlprnft doing a hebrew font for us, or arabic, or chinese, whatever.
11:42 <n54> yes of course
11:44 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
11:44 <z-man> Three days offline and the first thing you say is ping?
11:44 <Luke-Jr> yes
11:44 <z-man> :)
11:44 <Luke-Jr> how do I use CVS ACLs to block any CVS commits?
11:45 <Luke-Jr> preferably with a message referring to a forum post
11:45 <z-man> That would be a bad idea. How would you reenable commits when you're done?
11:46 <Luke-Jr> maybe wouldn't, but I presume the ACL can be deleted...
11:46 <z-man> That would also be a commit.
11:47 <Luke-Jr> ok, so don't apply the ACL to the CVSROOT module (presuming that's where the commit is)
11:47 <Luke-Jr> or better yet, just to the relevant module ;)
11:47 <z-man> Which is the relevant module?
11:47 <Luke-Jr> armagetron[ad]
11:48 <z-man> only that? What do you have in mind?
11:48 <Luke-Jr> which brings up the question of whether I should import the other stuff at the same time
11:48 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion
11:48 <z-man> Umm, not before 0.2.8.2 is out, please, or at least give me a chance to merge the changes back to b0_2_8
11:49 <Luke-Jr> err-- ok
11:49 <z-man> I'd say everything should be converted at once, wouldn't be much fun having to use armagetronad from SVN and armagetronad_release from CVS
11:49 <z-man> err, _build
11:49 <Luke-Jr> true
11:50 <Luke-Jr> though I was thinking more of griddraw, macosx_recorder, and such
11:50 <z-man> Lucifer_arma requested that acme shouldn't be converted
11:51 * Luke-Jr notes
11:51 <z-man> There definitely should be an announcement about this on the forum prior to the action
11:51 <z-man> so people have a chance to check in their current working copies
11:51 <Luke-Jr> ok, "planned for immediately after 0.2.8.2 release"?
11:51 <z-man> For example
11:52 <z-man> And I think the release will be the weekend after the next, if nothing bad happens (again)
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4 <-- drupal wiki test place
11:53 <z-man> If it should be done earlier, as I said, I can easily merge back the changes from the release branch as it stands now, and if anything new is committed afterwards, manually merge it over to SVN
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat. It looks like you can insert any node into the wiki
11:57 <z-man> waiting for the confirmation email... Do I get access to the test project then?
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> no email coming
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> just login?
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I made both users passwords "flowers"
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> er, making it right now
12:02 * Lucifer_arma still needs to fix outgoing mail on that machine
12:03 * Luke-Jr logs in as z-man =p j/k
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> TEST SITE :)
12:04 <z-man> waaa
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> very rough around the edges, it can take awhile to setup a new drupal installation
12:04 <Luke-Jr> maybe we should just write a CMS using Gallery2's API
12:05 <Luke-Jr> ;)
12:05 <z-man> Is that one of your .. ideas again?
12:05 <Luke-Jr> nah
12:05 * Lucifer_arma files that in his "universe revolves around Luke-Jr" file :)
12:05 <Luke-Jr> tho G2 is quite modular, and if one were to plan to write a full CMS, it would make a nice start
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> indeed. I should point out that so far Drupal at least has the appearance of being the ideal CMS, by my own standards anyway
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> the wiki module needs templates. I used those extensively on the KNights of Ni pages, it would be nice to have them.
12:09 <z-man> Waaaa! The bug tracker doesn't support setting bookmarks on specific searches :(
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> um, it does?
12:10 <z-man> Not for me
12:10 <z-man> They all end up as http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/add/project_issue
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> down at the bottom, under the tracker listing, next to the rss feed icon
12:10 <Luke-Jr> pfft
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> there's a # sign
12:10 <Luke-Jr> I think he means *normal* bookmarks
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/issues&projects=2&states=1,2,8,13,14&categories=bug
12:11 <Luke-Jr> tho normal bookmarks suck in Konqueror, so I don't use them
12:11 <z-man> Ah, it only appears if the search doesn't turn up empty
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's not obvious, it's definitely worth hacking to find that link and put something more useful in the caption :)
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, just made you an Administrator
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha
12:16 <z-man> Yeah, well, your ticked was auto-assigned to me
12:17 <z-man> can we get a version field in the tracker?
12:17 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, hm. I wonder how to do that...
12:23 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I think I figured it out. Somehow extensions is a version, though. Hmmm......
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> so, version would have to be associated together pretty much. Makes sense, Drupal modules are versioned the same as Drupal itself so you know which version it's compatible with
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> so we have to maintain a list of versions for projects to use, and then when a project is created, or edited, the person doing so picks which versions can be used from what's available in drupal's taxonomy module
12:28 <z-man> Does what you're saying translate to "versions are a pain" for a normal bloke?
12:29 <Lucifer_arma> it means we have two choices
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 1. Tell people to categorize version with the armagetronad version
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 2. Create a whole slew of versions from 0.1.0 -> 3.9.9
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> IN the case of 2, project admins would have to pick what versions are available from the list
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> There may be a module to allow us to give users limited editing/creation access to the taxonomy module
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> also, a lot of these fancy names for Drupal stuff has to get renamed to some extent in the links created. Regular users shouldn't have to worry about "node" and "taxonomy" and crap :)
12:32 <z-man> Ah, you're thinking ahead :) You wanted to use the tracker for moviepacks and mods.
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> yes, exactly :)
12:32 <z-man> Yeah, I had to look up taxonomy :)
12:34 <z-man> Difficult choice, code modding versions should definitiely be locked to the main AA version
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> people who submit mods would still be able to do that, so we'd have to make sure AA versions are represented in the list
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> and we'll pick from the list ourselves, of course...
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> Go to the project page and click "Edit"
12:35 <z-man> but they'll need their own further revisions; while we're working on 2.0, HangGliderFight may want to give out a sequel to 1.4.
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/2/edit
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, my point. The top box on that edit page is the versions available for this project
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> release a new version? Just select another one in the list
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> if people ask for a version number that's not there, we just add it.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> if there's a way to enforce that sort of thing, it'll be awhile before we discover it. Like any particularly advanced piece of software, the UI for Drupal isn't easy to figure out, but once you figure it out, it's usually easy to work wth
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> and then we have to piece together the right magical combination of modules, if it exists.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> It's kinda like every module is a piece of plutonium, and once you install enough, er, um. Maybe I shouldn't have it on my server....
12:40 * Luke-Jr reminds Lucifer_arma that versions are not decimal numbers
12:40 <z-man> Yeah, I agree that the UI is very confusing
12:42 <z-man> Where did my project go?
12:42 * Lucifer_arma invites Luke-Jr to manually enter all possible version numbers for himself
12:42 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=taxonomy/term/2
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> you created a new project?
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I see it
12:42 <z-man> Err, yes
12:43 <z-man> But I only get to it in "projects"/"my projects"
12:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: did it for Mantis...
12:43 <z-man> All possible numbers?
12:43 <z-man> Even the one that is one number larger that the largest number you can imagine?
12:44 <Luke-Jr> all versions
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> all versions? Did you do 99.9999123124.235241234123.a?
12:44 <z-man> That's not what Lucifer_arma invited you for :)
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> since there are plenty of people who not only thing version numbers *are* decimal numbers, but know they won't go past 9 in any column anyway, I don't think that'll be a problem
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> but if someone wants to burn time by putting in superfluous version numbers nobody will ever use, well, it won't be me.
12:45 <z-man> Shouldn't both projects be listed here? http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> um, I don't know
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
12:47 <Luke-Jr> no, ythat deosn't exist evne in concpet
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> the Drupal site lists them, apparently
12:47 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/ with everything else, tracker items and projects alike
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr drunk?
12:47 <Luke-Jr> CPU maxed out and such
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, there's settings to change defaults for stuff. :) I didn't fool with those, not important for this test. Will be important for another test later, though.
12:48 <z-man> Yes
12:48 <Luke-Jr> non-existent versions need not be listed
12:49 <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb. Let digits go beyond 9 where it makes sense
12:51 <n54> does normal signup work yet or?
12:52 <z-man> Yeah, we should force people to to a calculus test before they're allowed to play
12:52 <z-man> And, more importantly, a grammar test
12:52 <Luke-Jr> z-man: you don't need to do version math to play, just to talk about versions
12:53 <Luke-Jr> unless they're idiotic enough to uncheck "Hide Old" and see 0.2.9 after 0.2.10 is out
12:53 <Luke-Jr> and not notice it's coloured as old
12:53 * z-man was just expanding on this: <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb.
12:54 <Luke-Jr> by "playing games" I mean "accomidate their errors"'
12:54 <z-man> ah
12:54 <Luke-Jr> not the actual video game =p
12:56 <z-man> Anyway, we can handle 0.2.10 right ourselves on aabeta, but still, in FTP browsers and others it'll be sorted in before 0.2.9.
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> wel, when I run sort on a lsit of files in my directory, it tells me that 0.1.1 is followed by 0.1.10, which is in turn followed by 0.1.11
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> which, of course, isn't right. :)
12:56 <z-man> :)
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> same thing in an ORDER BY clause
12:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: indeed, directory listing isn't too smart sometimes
12:56 <Luke-Jr> many people complain over that
12:56 <Luke-Jr> try 'ls --sort=version/'
12:57 * z-man guesses Luke's next suggestion is to fix file browsers
12:57 <Luke-Jr> w/o the slash
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's right, for the same reason that aardvark is followed by abrdvark
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> I learned that in the 2nd grade
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> can't change the rules of sorting just because you dont' like them
12:57 <Luke-Jr> that's a character comparison, not a numeric comparison
12:57 <n54> that's why I use 01 for my own purposes at least
12:57 <Luke-Jr> 10 > 2
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> versions aren't numbers, though
12:57 <Luke-Jr> versions are numbers, that's just it
12:57 <Luke-Jr> they're a sequence of numbers
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> because a number can be expressed as a decimal when it's value or an approximation is known
12:58 <n54> but anyway Lucifer; is normal signup working at your drupal page?
12:58 <Luke-Jr> ok, so they're a sequence of *integers*--- which are numbers
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, outgoing email isn't
12:58 <n54> ah ok
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> so if you signed up, I'll make you a password and you can play with it :)
12:58 <n54> not important, just curious :)
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> gotta leave in about half an hour to take my driving test
13:00 <Luke-Jr> should?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> *should not
13:00 <Luke-Jr> heh
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> damn laptop keyboard
13:00 <n54> ok :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, put credit card numbers (valid ones) in wiki pages
13:00 <z-man> Why, where do you store them?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> make sure you include the 3digit number on the back of the card
13:01 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: experation dates too?
13:01 <Luke-Jr> expiration*
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, everything an unscrupulous type (which I am not) would need to spend them
13:01 <z-man> off to go home
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> ko
13:05 <n54> so since this has a wiki eventually it might replace the armagetron media-wiki too?
13:05 <n54> or wiki-media that is... :P
13:05 * n54 is now in a state of confusion lol
13:06 <Luke-Jr> MediaWiki
13:07 <n54> no dash? I was sure there were supposed to be a dash somewhere... ah well :D
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> in a WikiWord? are you nuts?
13:10 <n54> wingnuts - yes
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> the idea is to have it ultimately replace forums, main site, wiki, and tracker
13:10 <n54> I have solved your bug btw
13:10 <n54> nice
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> but we're only looking at it right now for wiki, main site, and tracker for third party stuff
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> it might even replace resource repository if done well
13:11 <n54> mmm me like
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> so you upload a project that's a resource to the site, and it's automatically in the resource repository
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> might be better to use backend scripts that scan uploaded releases and organize them our way, though
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> you know, instead of trying to get Drupal to do it for us
13:12 <n54> yes perhaps
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> fixed my bug? which one?
13:13 <n54> toilet paper one
13:15 <n54> anyway things always take time to get accustomed to
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> aha
13:17 <n54> :)
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I also made the damn projects appear
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I think they didn't appear because they didn't have releases or something like that
13:18 <n54> appear where?
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
13:19 <n54> aha
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, going to take my driving test now
13:19 <n54> driving test?
13:19 <n54> like for a drivers license?
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
13:22 <n54> have fun :)
13:24 <guru3> gah
13:24 <guru3> that bar at the bottom
13:24 <guru3> is annoying
13:25 <n54> mm yeah I guess, probably easy to change
13:25 <n54> and hi of course :)
13:25 <guru3> hey n54
13:25 <guru3> had another exam
13:25 <guru3> went badly :/
13:26 <n54> :S maths?
13:26 <guru3> yeah
13:26 <guru3> the option
13:26 <guru3> series & differential equations
13:26 <guru3> in other news my workstation should soon be working again
13:27 <guru3> just have to finnish emerging gnome and then deal with any other kinks that turn up
13:27 <n54> cool, my main pc seems to have become sane again as well
13:27 <guru3> grand
13:27 <n54> yeah
13:28 <n54> was strange using it again after using this machine (knoppix), I'e got BlackBox on the main one and it took a few minutes to get back to that feel compared to kde :)
13:29 <guru3> heh
13:30 <guru3> i'll be happy to have my workstation back
13:30 <guru3> single computer computing is so boring sometimes
13:30 <n54> now I've got to find/buy some small "split" cables for installing more fans in it
13:30 <guru3> and requires more concentration to remember the windows that are open
13:32 <n54> well I have less creens/keyboards than computers so this one is probably not going to be in use as it is now when I get back to learning openbsd on the third one
13:33 * n54 hasn't found any kwm switch he likes
13:33 <guru3> cool cool
13:33 <guru3> i've got a 4 port kvm from tripplite
13:33 <guru3> which i don't use
13:33 <guru3> as i've better mastered linux & ssh
13:33 <n54> bsd has kwm issues anyway so :)
13:33 <guru3> hah
13:34 <n54> but when I'm done getting the obsd one up to par I'll install something called synergy on that one and use over ssh
13:34 <n54> by that time synergy probably supports screens to :D
13:34 <guru3> cool
13:35 <n54> yeah it would be very nice, all three computers could share both screens and the rest
13:35 <n54> ultimately, hopefully
13:35 <guru3> cool
13:37 <guru3> i just did something horrible
13:37 <guru3> i installed a media wiki :(
13:38 <n54> hehe yes
13:40 <guru3> but alas
13:40 <guru3> must make my logo :D
13:40 <n54> :D
13:49 <guru3> garr
13:49 <guru3> really wish i had the workstation now
13:49 <guru3> so i could see what the wiki looks like :/
13:54 <n54> double loop? I mean if you want to access it as a client just to check?
13:55 <n54> if you have somewhere else to loop through that is
14:00 <guru3> meh
14:00 <guru3> the point is
14:00 <guru3> i can't figure out how to edit the footer or the side menu
14:05 -!- pavelo [n=pavelo@158.195.103.168] has joined #armagetron
14:05 <guru3> gah
14:05 <guru3> this is suprisingly bad
14:08 <n54> yeah it's quite a spagettiball, might be taste but well
14:08 <n54> tasty*
14:09 * n54 suddenly wants to eat spagetti with meatballs lol
14:10 <guru3> heh
14:10 <guru3> gar
14:11 <guru3> the main page menubar is unchanged
14:11 <guru3> but it's changed everywhere else
14:11 <guru3> wtf is up with that
14:11 <n54> no idea
14:11 <n54> what are you using the wiki for?
14:12 <guru3> wanted a way to keep some data i'd be collecting organized
14:12 <guru3> and for fun
14:12 <n54> :) perhaps drupal will be more fun?
14:13 <guru3> it's like it's cacheing pages
14:13 <guru3> i bet that's it
14:13 <guru3> the stupid ****** thing
14:14 <n54> could well be
14:14 <guru3> hmm
14:14 <guru3> i bet it had a header for it
14:14 <guru3> forced refresh fixed that
14:24 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, mediawiki caches pages
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> you have to edit the page to get it to refresh the cache
14:38 * Lucifer_arma passed his stupid driving test
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> I really need to start renewing my license before it expires, it's such a pain to do after it expires
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
14:41 <z-man-home> Umm, HangGliderFight doesn't appear in the "browse by date" tab
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has to do with there not being any releases created for it
14:42 <z-man-home> That reminds me, I tried to create one and failed. Do I need to upload a real file?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> ummmmm
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> maybe?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> The one I created for Test Project I didn't upload a file
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> the one I just tried to create for HangGliderFight didn't succeed, something about a duplicate key in the log
14:44 <z-man-home> I ended up here afterwards: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/8/release
14:44 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
14:44 <Self_Destructo> hi
14:44 <z-man-home> Oh, do I have to enter one of the registered versions?
14:44 <z-man-home> I tried 0.0.0.0.1
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I figured it out
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you should upload a file now
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> stupid table, looks like it has a "NULL" with unique requirements for the filename, and since I already created one without a file...
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filectime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 348.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filemtime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 349.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: md5_file(): Unable to open file in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 350.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <guru3> how do you change font color in media wiki?
14:48 <z-man-home> err, the file does exist for me, of course, looks like drupal is looking for it on the server
14:49 <z-man-home> And quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz is the release file of HangGliderFight Bachus
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> right, problem is, it doesn't work. The file didn't upload for some reason.
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> Tank: you'll need to look into themes
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> they're pretty straightforward when you get into it, but check MediaWiki site for info on it, also look in the themes directory
14:50 <guru3> if i wasn't on this window i'd never see that Lucifer_arma
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> I copied (guru3) an existing theme and just modified it to suit
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3:
14:50 <guru3> but i mean font in just one line
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: guru3 guru3
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhh
14:51 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ok, better check the mediawiki user's guide :)
14:51 <wrtl_web_broken> well...
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> looks like i can type, but not read anything
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> what?
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: That dot thing was on purpose...
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: it also looks like I can't delete releases if they get borked
14:53 <z-man-home> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions/date , look at the last modification date of my project.
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> wow, a third party extension that predates the game. Amazing
14:53 <wrtl_web_broken> know hos some people prefer to put two spaces after a dot? I thought by putting the dot to the left side of its "box" one could just use one
14:53 <z-man-home> Not to mention I started it before I was born
14:53 <guru3> is there anyway to have it not eat the last 1/3 of the screen?
14:54 <wrtl_web_broken> but you're right about numbers, I'll change it
14:54 * wrtl_web_broken has to wait for the chatlogs on his server to update before he can see what someone else wrote (and if what i'm writing here actually goes through...)
14:55 <z-man-home> Gee, half the people here are logged in twice
14:56 <wrtl_web_broken> hmm, looks like it does
14:58 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
14:59 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
14:59 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he could get armabot to login a second time too
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> well, this Project module is nice, and looks really good on the Drupal site. But it really feels like beta software to me.
15:00 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron ["I need to reboot my router"]
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which means, if we can figure out how to make it work right, and people don't break it, we should be fine :)
15:00 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]
15:02 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
15:09 * n54 wonders why everyone is silent
15:10 * Lucifer_arma wonders if anyone's willing to throw together a tron-like theme for drupal
15:11 <n54> lacka perhaps?
15:11 <n54> or locutus if he's still around?
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, nothing crazy, just grab the theme from the main site and turn it into a drupal theme
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> or the one from the wiki, or whatever
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> for a test website. If someone wanted to create a new theme from scratch when/if we implemented the test website, fine.
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, just something that says "this is essentially what we can do"
15:16 * z-man-home is not good at themes
15:16 <n54> might be a lot of work either way, anyway I'm not familiar with drupal themes so since I'm messing about with cbos at the moment I'm not volunteering ;)
15:18 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["restart"]
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> "If you're not with us, you're against us"
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> man, that annoys me
15:19 <n54> I can understand that, even agree, it's something that should be said sparingly
15:19 <Lackadaisical> i think a three column layout wouldnt hurt
15:20 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
15:20 <n54> for the drupal stuff Lackadaisical?
15:21 <Lackadaisical> yeah
15:22 <Lackadaisical> drupal already 'thinks' in three columns right?
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and also a header and footer and some other things
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> but it's not really married to it, you could put the "right" column underneath the "left" column on the left, and you'd have a column on the left with two sections
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the real question is, how much work do you want to put into it for a test? :) A little work has to be done, but you could safely wait until we said we'll use it or not before diving in
15:24 * n54 is done with cbos -- "that went quick" in dry Gauntlet voice
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> also wrtlprnft, who's having problems saying stuff here just pmed me to volunteer if nobody else wants to do it
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I'm going to convert the wiki theme right now because it'll be fun. :) Drupal supports multiple themes, and even different themes for different sections, so there's no reason we can't keep all the old themes in some form
15:25 <Self_Destructo> wow, the most people in this channel I have seen in a long time
15:25 <Lackadaisical> well just converting one theme to another isnt that hard probably
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> and then give users a chance to pick the themes they really want
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> well, luckily Drupal supports several theme engines
15:25 <Lackadaisical> did you see there are two different themeengines?
15:25 <Lackadaisical> ok
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> there's one that's mambo-like, and one that's deprecated but works out of one file
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> and some others, and some third party engines. If you know smarty, I'll be happy to throw in the smarty theme engine
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> we can even get totally obsessive about it and write our own theme engine. :) any takes for that?
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> *takers
15:26 <n54> lol
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> ideally we should stick to the php theme engine, I forgot what it's called already. It's the new default theme engine
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> that's just because some stupid modules depend on it. The only one I know for sure is the audio one, though, which we're probably not going to need
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> but I think I've seen others say "use this theme engine", which kinda breaks the rule about separating content and presentation
15:28 <n54> the php one?
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> phptemplate
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's the only one that ships with Drupal 4.7, apparently
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> there's some add-on engines I can install though
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/Theme+engines
15:34 <Lackadaisical> ayaan hirsi ali has taken her dutch nationality illegally :O
15:34 <n54> :o really? damn... I like her
15:35 <n54> we all need more people like her
15:35 <Lackadaisical> she lied about her name and birthdate
15:35 <n54> but... since she's a meber of parliament, what will happen?
15:35 <n54> member*
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4 <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
15:38 <n54> hehe lucifer :)
15:39 <n54> with those colors I really really see guru3's point about the footer though, it should go
15:42 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:48 <Lackadaisical> well her party actually knew that she lied but still let her in the parliament
15:49 <n54> huh
16:00 <n54> on wikipedia they say she's likely to move to the states
16:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: so you want me to center that dot or put it a bit more towards the centre?
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda prefer it centered completely, but if it was intentional, I guess I can live with it :)
16:03 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was a genuine mistake
16:03 <wrtlprnft> no, it was a bad idea
16:03 <wrtlprnft> so I'll center it
16:05 <n54> it's a "monospace problem" :)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:06 <wrtlprnft> done
16:07 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i read your resource stuff, it looks fine.
16:07 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, and would you mind giving me sysop rights on the wiki so i can delete spam?
16:08 <wrtlprnft> there are spam pages there for about 12 hours now
16:08 <wrtlprnft> and noone can delete them but you and nemo
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, let's see if I can remember how
16:09 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, done
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> there was a special page for it :)
16:11 * joda_bot wonders if ArmagetronAd should really require python for just sorting resources ...
16:11 <joda_bot> Would it not be easier to just put the files in the right spot before commit ?
16:15 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion thread posted
16:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: hm?
16:16 <Luke-Jr> AFAIK, Armagetron doesn't need to sort resources yet
16:16 <Luke-Jr> nor should Python ever be a *requirement*
16:17 <Luke-Jr> not to mention being unusuable at this point due to a lack of secure execution
16:17 <Luke-Jr> unless you're referring to the build process, which can require whatever we want it to ;)
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> "Why can't you just think before you speak?" --Overkill (and many many others)
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha, got all the stuff off the front page on the test drupal and now it's showing the default "you just installed Drupal" message
16:21 <Luke-Jr> and in the case of build process (which wasn't even implied), the "sort before commit" is bad due to CVS's inability to rename ;)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> *cough* it also lets us store development resources in a way that's actual logical and still enforce the fascist filepath standard on everything when it's installed
16:25 <joda_bot> well you seem to like it ;)
16:25 <joda_bot> to me it looks like some strange way to make it complicated ;)
16:26 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: if files aren't in the right place, it's harder to locate them
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried digging for resources in the filepath standard?
16:26 <Luke-Jr> we'd need to scan the paths and cache the name/version/category/author mappings
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: meaning?
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's a royal pain in that ass
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> *the
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: think of it more that resources do not have filenames, and the 'filepath' is the method used by the cache to store/locate them by name/author/version/cate
16:27 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I don't want to make this into a long discussion... just to me this means the resource system is not good enough
16:27 <Luke-Jr> and also the method used to abbreviate resources without a long string describing them
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't change the fact that I have to click 3 times more than necessary to get to an actual resource, and that's ignoring doing it from the command line
16:27 <joda_bot> Perhaps we can get rid of the problem by ZIP packages
16:27 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: there is no problem
16:27 <Luke-Jr> except ZIP
16:28 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: so don't develop within a cache
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, only reason I started bitching was to counter Luke-Jr's taking advantage of your question to bitch about the possiblity that python might be required some day
16:28 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: The problem is that to me and lucifer (too as it seems) a easier system can be imagined ;)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, um, I participated in the discussion and got overruled
16:28 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: sure, you could refer to the MD5 of the resource
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> so we're stuck with this
16:29 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: any other cache storing mechanism is going to be at least as "complicated"
16:29 <joda_bot> fine by me, but I really dig replacing the python script by bash and perhaps CodeBlocks Makefile Management on Windows
16:29 <Luke-Jr> go ahead
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> you have a bash xml parser?
16:30 <Luke-Jr> as long as the cache/filepath format stays the same, I really don't think I care
16:30 <joda_bot> aw, ok, damn ;
16:30 <Luke-Jr> LOL
16:30 <joda_bot> did not think as it seems ;)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, sortresources parses the xml to get the information it needs to put it in the right place
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's very useful, seriously, because after the stuff's installed, it's not so important we can reach it quickly to develop.
16:31 <Luke-Jr> I would just as well encourage development of resources under filenames like devmap.txt and just let a sorting script handle the caching of it
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> and I guess it's being installed in a logical way.
16:31 * joda_bot won't say anything as it won't improve anything ... just remember I'm unhappy :)
16:32 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: what's the problem w/ a sorting app?
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm unhappy with you, but you know....can't be happy with everything, there's what, 50 of us now?
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> also, I don't think zip packages go away, but they do let us get rid of the xml extension
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Hey, I'm sorry I should not critise a system you worked hard on
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> to lucifer-0.1.aacockpit :)
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> s/to/so
16:33 <Luke-Jr> you can get rid of .xml all you want for all I care =p
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Luke-Jr: atleast not with a working and implemented alternative at hand ...
16:34 <Luke-Jr> it's only there so the extension has some recognition
16:34 <Luke-Jr> ZIP has no use within the resource system, it's external for distribution of resources only
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> right, and for resources it would be nice if the os recognized it. so there's another benefit to using zip to throw on the pile
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> correction "ZIP has no use that Luke-Jr can see from inside his asshole in the resource system"
16:35 * Luke-Jr decides not to rebute that
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> probably wise, because the fact that you persist in saying there's no use to having zip around only shows that you consider your own views to override all of ours
16:36 <Luke-Jr> now go read the Svn plans and comment so I can read before I go to work
16:36 <Luke-Jr> =p
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> seeing as how most of us have managed to come up with at least 1 reason to use zip, and altogether it's very compelling
16:36 <Luke-Jr> I didn't say ZIP had no use at all-- just not within the scope of the resource manager/system
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that correction doesn't change what I said
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm glad you're not a lawyer :)
16:37 <wrtlprnft> I'd say compiling CVS should require python to sort the resources since the filename will change everytime someone changes the file, and CVS doesn't handle it very well
16:37 <wrtlprnft> source releases should heve the resources already sorted
16:37 <Luke-Jr> WFM
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> wfm = ?
16:37 <wrtlprnft> works for me?
16:37 * wrtlprnft is guessing
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> what fucking machine?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I know
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> whiffle flavored mothball
16:38 <wrtlprnft> we f*** microsoft
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> actually, it probably means Gentoo Kicks All Ass
16:38 <wrtlprnft> doesn't contain a W :(
16:39 <wrtlprnft> thanks Lucifer_arma for the sysop on the wiki
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I've got Administrator and Developer. The thing already had authenticated user and anonymous user
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> any other roles needed? I guess this is enough to test...
16:40 <Luke-Jr> Works For Me
16:40 <Luke-Jr> and Gentoo sucks
16:41 <wrtlprnft> yay i guessed right
16:41 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: does your opinion on gentoo have anything to do with the fact that Lucifer_arma is gonna use it now?
16:41 <Luke-Jr> and while I'm explaining crap, my views on resources would generally be weighed higher since I designed and debugged the concepts, and have a generally better view of the system
16:41 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> wasn't he already?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he loved it until I said I'd start installing it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> just because I use it doesn't mean I like it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> it just sucks least of the options
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: your views on resources would generally be weighed higher if you put your right hand on your left shoulder, your left hand on your right shoulder, and pulled as hard as you can, until you hear a popping noise.
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> That popping noise will be the sound of your head popping out of your ass.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> done cleaning up the wiki :)
16:45 <Luke-Jr> bbl
16:46 <wrtlprnft> if you were to update the wiki to some recent version we could delete revisions
16:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's anatomically impossible ;)
16:48 <wrtlprnft> i guess it wouldn't even really hurt
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I wonder if this liquid wiki module has some mechanism for dealing with spam
16:50 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with http
16:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [15:37:55] <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4 <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> no way, I posted this link after that: http://armatest.davefancella.com/
16:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but that page has a home link :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> i already looked at it from school
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it does. Umm, except I've been working on it in between talking trash at luke
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with password
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [13:00:02] <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ack
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with flower
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [12:59:41] <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> hahahaha
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ah, "flowers"
16:52 <wrtlprnft> forgot the s
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's my standard test password for development systems
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to remember, and brightens up debug output
16:52 <wrtlprnft> "my account" lol
16:53 <wrtlprnft> > Are you the real Player 1?
16:53 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
16:53 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, you like the slogan?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, where did that ticket buisness go?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> the toilet paper stuff
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> Projects
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> er, Downloads now
16:55 <wrtlprnft> downloads?!
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> hahaha
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
16:55 <wrtlprnft> well, you can't guess that i guess
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe just calling it Projects is better
16:56 <wrtlprnft> yeah
17:01 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
17:02 <wrtlprnft> my doog just hit the close button of my browser
17:02 <wrtlprnft> scratch one o
17:02 <Self_Destructo> hrm
17:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, yes, Self_Destructo, McSpiddles|zZzZz: the match on wednesday is cancelled
17:03 <Self_Destructo> my recent compilation of CVS HEAD made a 23.1 MB .exe file
17:03 <wrtlprnft> looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok
17:03 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles|zZzZz the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <wrtlprnft> ...
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:05 <wrtlprnft> *insert usual rant about people not sticking to one nick here*
17:05 <Self_Destructo> well, I do, normally
17:05 <Self_Destructo> and when I am here I will use Self_Destructo
17:05 <MaZuffeR> we (??) won CT 3-0 even if we let them play with 8 against only 6 of us :D
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 1st match was really tight
17:06 <wrtlprnft> you just have the best people ;)
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 100-92 iirc
17:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
17:07 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
17:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> that was a short supper
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I should go fix my outgoing mail server real quick and then post about this here test sight
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh, wasn't dinner, sorry. I was playing on the "rants about people always changing their names"
17:08 <wrtlprnft> oh ok
17:09 -!- You're now known as pnttrfrwl
17:09 -!- You're now known as rtflwtpnr
17:09 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:10 <wrtlprnft> :D
17:13 -!- pavelo [n=pavelo@158.195.103.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Resource_System <-- do a minor edit of this page to trigger a notification email for me
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh fuck, nvm
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, outgoing mail server fixed
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I got 35 emails for fixing it
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting more. dammit
17:15 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> might hit it's upper limit of 150 emails, heh.
17:16 * n54 logs back into gmail
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> oh no. haha.
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> sorry guys. I had no idea....
17:16 <n54> misunderstanding?
17:16 <n54> I'e got 200+ mails waiting? XD
17:16 <wrtlprnft> does that mean you'll get them in portions of 150 mails a day until the buffer is flushed?
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, for people who've been editing pages on the wiki, they might get dumped with a lot of stashed email from when the connection broke between the mail server and no-ip
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> so, how do I flush the cache?
17:17 <n54> only one mail here :)
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm just going to blow it off
17:36 <wrtlprnft> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Spyware_infestation.png
17:37 <wrtlprnft> I'm missing the googlebar there
17:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["ut is wat ut is"]
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no-ip has disabled my outgoing account until tomorrow. :(
17:49 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:49 <Self_Destructo> so what is the test website about?
17:51 <Self_Destructo> hm, seems to be a mix of a couple of CMS's
17:54 <n54> lol wrtlprnft that pic is insane XD
17:58 <n54> it's only drupal afaik Self_Destructo
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's only drupal
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: are you there right now?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, someone give me an email address they can check right now if I send an email to it
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> done
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks. tell me if you get the email
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it just has subject and body "test"
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> never seen that kind of email bounce off a spam filter :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> got it
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool.
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> one more thing...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> ok, looks like no-ip didn't cut me off.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> got worried, I have to send invoices tomorrow, and I can't have my email locked
18:05 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I found how to clear the queue, and I figured it's been so long since the server worked that nobody would miss any of the emails it was holding
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now time to work on dinner :)
18:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
19:03 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetronad.net/
19:03 <wrtlprnft> did you ever pay attention to that "Online Servers" box?
19:03 <wrtlprnft> reload the page a few times and look :D
19:08 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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19:13 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: what about it?
19:25 <wrtlprnft> it changes :D
19:26 <Self_Destructo> no kidding
19:26 <Self_Destructo> #dict Etiquette
19:26 <armabot> Self_Destructo: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: etiquette n : rules governing socially acceptable behavior; gcide: Etiquette \Et"i*quette`\, n. [F. prop., a little piece of paper, or a mark or title, affixed to a bag or bundle, expressing its contents, a label, ticket, OF.estiquete, of German origin; cf. LG. stikke peg, pin, tack, stikken to stick, G. stecken. See {Stick}, and cf. (5 more messages)
19:26 <Self_Destructo> speel check
19:26 <Self_Destructo> spell*
20:00 -!- McSpiddles|zZzZz is now known as McSpiddles
20:00 <McSpiddles> whoa
20:00 <McSpiddles> i was out for along time
20:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:09 <ghableska> hello
20:09 <McSpiddles> hey ghab
20:09 <ghableska> hi McSpiddles
20:09 <McSpiddles> sup d00
20:09 <McSpiddles> d00d
20:10 <ghableska> not much...
20:10 <ghableska> you?
20:10 <McSpiddles> just waking up,lol
20:10 <ghableska> heh
20:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Quit in 0,527003 second(s)"]
21:11 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11 * Self_Destructo is back, obviously
21:15 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
21:16 <wrtlprnft> did you have any luck understanding my pseudocode?
21:25 <McSpiddles> qb
21:25 <McSpiddles> lol
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:28 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I haven't really had a chance to study it out
21:33 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:33 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: #ifndef ARMAGETRON_COCKPIT_H
21:33 <Self_Destructo> ???
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake --help
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake wrtlprnft
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:34 <Self_Destructo> armabot tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that should say ROTATION_H
21:49 <wrtlprnft> well, now you know where I copy and pasted from ;)
21:49 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: ping
21:50 <wrtlprnft> #wake Self_Destructo
21:50 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:51 <Self_Destructo> i had to run outside for a sec
21:51 <wrtlprnft> ah
21:51 <wrtlprnft> i was playing arma :D
21:51 <Self_Destructo> I'm looking at your cockpit files to see kinda how you did things
21:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah. Change that include please...
21:51 <Self_Destructo> although, what I do probably wont even be near the same
21:52 <Self_Destructo> already done
21:52 <wrtlprnft> ok...
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, there's a *very* basic framework in gRotation
21:52 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:53 <Self_Destructo> my main deal will be how to get the data, and what to do after all the logic is done
21:53 <wrtlprnft> well
21:53 <Self_Destructo> i can get the logic in between easily
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the new round and new match i already handled for you
21:53 <wrtlprnft> that main gRotationTag tree will receive the right events
21:54 <Self_Destructo> static void cfcb(void) {
21:54 <Self_Destructo> gRotation::GetRotator().Parse();
21:54 <Self_Destructo> }
21:54 <wrtlprnft> the idea is that if the tag can do something with the event it got it does so, if not it hands it to its childs
21:54 <Self_Destructo> ?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> well
21:54 <wrtlprnft> gRotation is a class that will only have a single instance
21:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe later you can expand that to multiple instances and multiple rotation files
21:55 <wrtlprnft> go gRotation::GetRotator returns a pointer to the gRotation instance if it exists already
21:55 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't it creates one
21:56 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:56 <Self_Destructo> well
21:56 <Self_Destructo> i g2g
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ok, cya
21:56 <Self_Destructo> can we talk tomorrow?
21:56 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:56 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
21:56 <SD|away> ok
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:04 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
Log from 2006-05-16:
--- Day changed Tue May 16 2006
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01:49 <z-man> #morning
01:49 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune: Speer's 1st Law of Proofreading: || The visibility of an error is inversely proportional to the || number of times you have looked at it.
01:50 <guru3> woop
01:50 <guru3> my workstation's back in the game
01:50 <n54> morning z-man & guru3 :)
02:00 <guru3> good morning n54
02:01 <n54> :)
02:01 <guru3> i could maybe get used to drupal
02:01 <guru3> if the links were more intuitive
02:02 <n54> but it's still metter than mediawiki right?
02:02 <n54> better*
02:02 <guru3> i don't know really
02:03 <n54> me neither really, it's just the impression I've got from others
02:04 <guru3> heh
02:04 <guru3> you know the aa.net domain name will expire in less than a month?
02:04 <guru3> i've got to remember to renew it
02:04 <guru3> toast- bbl
02:05 <n54> how much will it cost?
02:10 <guru3> back
02:10 <guru3> around $35
02:10 <guru3> we've gotten enough donations to cover it though :)
02:11 <n54> ok good :) I'd chip in otherwise
02:11 <n54> did you post about at the forum or did it all happen so quick that wasn't even neccessary+
02:11 <n54> about it*
02:24 <guru3> nah no need to bother everyone
02:24 <guru3> we've got $$ for the domain for a few years now
02:24 <guru3> this one guy was very generous
02:24 <guru3> or his finger slipped on the keyboard
02:25 <guru3> either way he donated $200
02:25 <guru3> and so is essentially single handedly keeping us in buisness
02:25 <guru3> or at least being a key part of it
02:25 <n54> yikes :D well thanks to whoever that was :)
02:27 <guru3> yeah
02:48 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:49 * z-man hopes everyone is OK with the sudden materialization of the SVN migration decision
02:57 <guru3> i'm off to study
02:57 <guru3> cu
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--- Log opened Tue May 16 07:39:10 2006
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07:40 <wrtlprnft> grr
07:40 <wrtlprnft> forgot to plug in my notebook overnight
07:52 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, good luck to guru3 :)
08:10 <LuciEatsPeople> hoo-hoo, I got an A in my Texas Government class
08:10 <LuciEatsPeople> ummm
08:11 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
08:14 <GodTodd> congrats :)
08:28 <guru3> home
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> so how'd it go?
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> why is it that when I ask people to do really hard things, they do it without question, but if I ask people to do easy things, they refuse and try to fight about it?
08:33 <GodTodd> maybe the challenge/learning factor?
08:38 <guru3> not too bad
08:38 <guru3> i finnished kinda quickly
08:39 <guru3> but oh well
08:40 <guru3> ain't fuck i can do about it now :D
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> heh, challenge/learning factor... I've asked for two simple things. :)
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> 1. That my wife close our bedroom door. This is a request that's been outstanding for 10 years now. She just won't fucking do it!
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> 2. Well, it's on the forums now. acme yadayada
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> I could ask my wife to do the brakes on my car. She'd do it, with a little arguing.
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> But no amount of fighting will get her to close our bedroom door!
08:44 <GodTodd> well...as far as women....hard to tell why they do or don't do what they do or don't do :D
08:45 <GodTodd> that's one user manual i would NOT want to write heh
08:45 <guru3> haha
08:45 <z-man-work> All I'm asking for is an OFF button :)
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:45 <guru3> can't you settle for the sleep one?
08:45 <z-man-work> Or mute, anyway
08:45 <GodTodd> hell...i'd take a mute myself
08:45 <GodTodd> :D
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: not sure what's going on with releases. There's a checkbox that if I click, browsing projects stops working the way you'd expect it to
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think that not clicking it causes new releases not to work
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's a very weird module, this Project module is
08:47 * z-man-work agrees
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/admin/settings/project <-- here, you fuck with it :)
08:48 <z-man-work> which button is it?
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> Actually it's a text box, Release Directory
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> options that probably work are /www/homeFiles, /www/home/files
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> both of those are writeable by the web user
08:49 <z-man-work> so if set, people would be supposed to upload their files there, then register a release for it?
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think so. It has something to do with releases being generated by some other tool
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> eave this blank if project maintainers are to create their own release packages. This is useful if releases are generated by an external tool.
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely certain what that means, but it might mean that filling it disables creating releases
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> but if you don't fill it, then the browser stops working.
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the browser may filter out projects that don't have releases, but that wouldn't be expected behavior. I'd consider that a bug, in fact.
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> Browse projects by releases <-- this text box seems to have something to do with it too, but I have no idea what
08:53 <z-man-work> Well, definitely, the upload of a file doesn't work
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> any idea where it's trying to put files?
09:00 <z-man-work> No, it looks like it's not even trying to upload the file
09:01 <z-man-work> If I select a file in my home directory, the link it tries to access it by later is http://armatest.davefancella.com/<fileanme>
09:01 <z-man-work> It can't possibly be a Firefox incompatibility, or can it?
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> right, problem is, I don't want files put there. Well, that's not a big problem, except that it seems that Project doesn't want to let me pick where to put files
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> I can't imagine it being a Firefox incompatibility.
09:08 <z-man-work> I'm slowly, very slowly getting the hang of it
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh. did you figure out how to make it put files somewhere besides the root?
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> this is only for Project, mind you. The other modules seem to be doing fine respecting their upload locations.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> there's supposed to be an api for file uploads that modules are supposed to use, which allows a global setting for file uploads
09:11 <z-man-work> but Project doesn't use it?
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> apparently not
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh
09:12 <z-man-work> The file slot probably isn't really an upload thingie after all
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they have a good reason for it. It looks like they use it for issues, I just made the issues directory under files
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> then why the browse button?
09:14 <z-man-work> Beats me
09:14 <z-man-work> entering an URI also doesn't work:
09:14 <z-man-work> http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/21/release
09:15 <z-man-work> The intended usage really seems to be: upload file via ftp/scp to the server, and add the path to it in the release
09:15 <z-man-work> this is worse than aabeta :)
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> /files/home/part3/moos/x <--- is this a local path on your machine?
09:16 <z-man-work> Or perhaps you're supposed to generate the release files from within the system
09:16 <z-man-work> yes, a local path
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok. Ummmm........
09:16 <z-man-work> that's what Konqueror's file selection item put in there
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> scp is out of the question for this. I'm not making ssh accounts for everybody on this machine, and that's not sustainable for us anyway
09:16 <z-man-work> But without uploading anything, of course
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> anonymous ftp might work, though.
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> that or hacking Project to just take uploads through the website...
09:17 * Lucifer_arma goes looking at the source
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> why do file upload ui's have to suck so much? :(
09:24 * Lucifer_arma whines
09:28 <z-man-work> Without knowing the details, I'd say Luke would say that it's because browser based file uploads are broken in concept.
09:28 <z-man-work> Dunno, perhaps he'd be right.
09:31 <z-man-work> But, Lucifer_arma:does that mean that at least, the thing is supposed to be a file upload?
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> it looks like a file upload, doesn't it? :)
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> I really believe it's supposed to be a file upload, which means it's either broken because it's not, or it's a bug that it doesn't work, or that it's just poorly written
09:35 <Lucifer_arma> also, either they went to some considerable trouble to put a button that says "Browse" on there, or they actually used a file upload widget on the page
09:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to get the damn form to reappear so I can look at the page source and see which it is :)
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's annoying. I got it to show the form again, but when I view source I get a different page. Apparently firefox doesn't make view page source part of the same session,
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> so Drupal gives me an access denied message instead :(
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> DOM inspector dug it out, it's a file upload widget for sure
09:41 <z-man-work> Hmm, but usually, my browsers warn be before a file is actually uploaded. Here, they don't.
09:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's definitely a file upload widget, but none of the api calls needed to treat it as such are there
09:46 * Lucifer_arma has been grepping and googling to figure that out :)
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know why your browser's not warning you. Maybe you've told it to trust this server before?
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> try attaching a file to an issue and see what happens
09:47 * Lucifer_arma goes to find out himself
09:48 <Lucifer_arma> file uploads work for issues
09:49 <z-man-work> yes, and it doesn't warn me there
09:49 <z-man-work> so the non-warning is not an issue
09:50 * z-man-work is testing in konqueror
09:51 <z-man-work> Aha, konqueror is warning me about an upload with the issues
09:52 <z-man-work> So something must be wrong on the document level
09:52 <z-man-work> (minimally)
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> I found the form generator for issues so I could see what a working file upload looked like :)
09:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, the release form is being generated as a file uploader.... where's the handler? Must have missed it
09:54 <guru3> haha i just noticed sound still isn't working on my workstation ><
09:54 <z-man-work> I couldn't spot a relevant difference in the HTML of the issue and release submission pages ;(
09:55 * z-man-work is a noob
09:58 <z-man-work> Hacked a working release :) http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/21/release#version-2.0
10:01 <Lucifer_arma> did you upload the file as a release attachment?
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think I've figured out what's broke
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> it's trying to handle file uploads through the web form and file uploads through an external system through the same system
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> gforge made the same mistake and I had to hack it out of it for sugar's installation
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I should do the same thing for Project. :(
10:06 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the end result is that the complete path to the file as sent by the browser is getting stored in the database, and then that path is just dumped to the page
10:08 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be a nontrivial hack
10:10 <z-man-work> What I did was attach the release file to an issue, and later enter the server's file path in the "upload" box on the release form
10:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's what I suspected. :)
10:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I submitted a bug for it. It's a nontrivial hack, so I'll have to worry about it later today, or maybe in a couple of days.
10:11 <z-man-work> k
10:11 * Lucifer_arma reminds himself to unzip the original source in another directory so he can start making patches.
10:11 <Lucifer_arma> I guess if I'm going to hack it I should put it in a svn repo somewhere, heh
10:18 <Lucifer_arma> does svn let you delete a branch?
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking it would be easier to delete the openAL branch and recreate it when I'm ready to start working on it again than to ask Luke-Jr to just not import it
10:23 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: yes, but that plan doesn't sound like it makes sense... but you're the guy working on the branch, so it's your call
10:24 <Luke-Jr> as with everything else, it should be imported to complete history
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: it's apparently not my call for acme, heh.
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> there's a time and place to worry about history, and letting our new svn repo get bloated for the sake of history probably isn't it
10:24 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you *could* delete acme-pygame after the import-- but then it blocks anyone else from continuing it, or keeping the old release tags and such
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> historians don't use SCM...
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> there aren't any release tags
10:24 <Luke-Jr> the purpose of a SCM is history
10:24 <Luke-Jr> oh
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> there's just the original import plus a few commits
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> and that's *it*
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> same with the openAL branch
10:25 <Luke-Jr> well then that makes it even easier to just move it aside
10:26 <Luke-Jr> but in the case of an abandoned/dead branch, I'd figure just delete it once the import is done
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, with the openAL branch, it needs to have cvs head merged back into it before more work can proceed, and while it should go smoothly, I'd still prefer to avoid it
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> openAL isn't abandoned or dead. :) Just that a lot of work has happened since it was made to render it very difficult to work with. So when I restart it, I'd like to restart it fresh.
10:27 <Lucifer_arma> I'd also like to rethink how the source for it is organized, I'm considering the possibility of leaving the SDL_mixer sound engine for the sake of reducing dependencies.
10:28 <Luke-Jr> same thing
10:28 <Luke-Jr> *that* go at OpenAL is dead =p
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sure. :) Except I'll be starting from the same code for the next one. Heh.
10:30 <Lucifer_arma> I also want to see if I can do my file reading through SDL_audio, which is part of SDL iirc. That way I don't have to deal with ogg and mp3 and stuff
10:52 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: of course, it *is* your call for acme
10:52 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
10:53 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: I'm curious, what exactly do you mean when you say "delete old/unused branches and tags"?
10:53 <z-man-work> What happens to them? Are they moved to some sort of attic or really deleted in SVN (which doesn't make them inaccessible, I know)
10:53 <z-man-work> hi philippeqc
10:53 <philippeqc> hi z-man
10:54 <philippeqc> how are you
10:54 <z-man-work> And what's the criterion for selecting the things to prune?
10:54 <z-man-work> behind today's todo schedule, but fine, and you?
10:55 * z-man-work doesn't like polite greetings in IRC, compares them to SPAM
10:55 <philippeqc> just came home, bicycled from work,
10:55 <philippeqc> lol,
10:56 <philippeqc> just saw your post about subversion, decided now I should _really_ pay attention to it, seeing the bold text comment ;)
10:57 <z-man-work> hehe, yes, that's why I did that :)
10:58 <z-man-work> And right at the beginning of the tread, when it isn't fragmented by our usual trench fights and nobody is reading it any more
10:58 <philippeqc> sorry I didnt follow the discussions about versioning tools. I realised I didnt have the time required to really participate in the testing and comparing.
10:58 <z-man-work> No problem. We'll be fine with central subversion
10:59 <z-man-work> a lot of people are using it and are happy with it, so it'll work for us as well
10:59 <z-man-work> And it's really easy to switch from CVS to SVN
10:59 <philippeqc> you/someone should publish the equivalent of sf's "how to cvs if your anonymous or a developer"
11:00 <z-man-work> Aren't there docs about it on SF?
11:00 <z-man-work> Or at least a link to the official SVN docs?
11:02 <philippeqc> just saw the bit of your post where you mention that SVN will run from SF, and realised they must have it ;)
11:03 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: delete the stuff we don't need to keep
11:03 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: which leaves them only in history
11:03 <z-man-work> With "svn delete"?
11:03 <Luke-Jr> yes
11:03 <z-man-work> ok, but isn't that a bit silly for tags?
11:03 <Luke-Jr> hm?
11:03 <z-man-work> or are VERSION tags excluded?
11:04 <Luke-Jr> version tags/branches won't be deleted
11:04 <Luke-Jr> just useless stuff
11:04 <z-man-work> That was my second question :)
11:04 <Luke-Jr> in fact, if some non-version tag/branch *isn't* useless, please mention it ;)
11:04 <z-man-work> So the helper tags that I used for merging the right stuff from b0_2_8 to the trunk will be gone, but not v0_2_8_1.
11:05 <Luke-Jr> the "_merged_to_" stuff? yeah
11:05 <Luke-Jr> well, except that there's no cleanup stage post-aa/aa import
11:05 <z-man-work> I wouldn't remember any useful one, but I'll check with cvs log
11:05 <Luke-Jr> but I could add it =p
11:05 * Luke-Jr imagines cvs log would make such hard to notice
11:06 <McSpiddles> man,on this test book i almost put my name down as spidey :/
11:06 <Luke-Jr> LOL
11:07 <z-man-work> cvs log lists all the tags right at the start :)
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> ? but those tags are history...
11:07 <z-man-work> Glancing over them, no, at least in armagetronad, the non-version tags are obsolete
11:08 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, and they'll be preserved in history, but not in the list people get when they browse for tags
11:08 <z-man-work> Makes sense to me :)
11:08 * Lucifer_arma smiles facetiously
11:09 <z-man-work> The Root_ tags may be useful still, unless SVN has an easy way to find the branching revision of a branch
11:09 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: and they will remain in history
11:10 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: how about the 'z-man' branch? ;)
11:10 <z-man-work> There is a z-man branch???
11:10 <Luke-Jr> in the original project
11:10 <Luke-Jr> network_priority
11:10 <Luke-Jr> network-rework
11:10 <z-man-work> oh
11:10 <z-man-work> Gee, I can't remember that one
11:11 <z-man-work> I guess it's safe to say they're dead
11:11 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: I think I did a commit some time about for code for my thesis, THAT you can just remove!
11:11 <Luke-Jr> 'start'
11:11 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: wtf?
11:12 <philippeqc> It might have already been removed from cvs, but it was a branch/project that used the wrong cvs setting, and intead of going to a comp at uni, went to AA
11:12 <Luke-Jr> O.o
11:12 <Luke-Jr> 'lala'?
11:12 <z-man-work> My motto with old stuff is that if I can't remember it even existed, it's junk :)
11:13 <philippeqc> that sound like my stuff
11:13 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: how about the network stuff and 'start' tag?
11:13 <z-man-work> I can't remember them
11:13 <Luke-Jr> o
11:13 <Luke-Jr> so drop?
11:13 <z-man-work> yes
11:13 <z-man-work> I surely won't go back and do work on them
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> I have a special directory I for old, abandoned code, because I do go back to it a fair amount and dig up stuff that I need now. :)
11:14 <Lucifer_arma> the pygame-based acme is there now, heh
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> here's the thing. I don't object to acme coming into the svn repository, I object to having to ask a project admin to email sourceforge and ask them to delete it...
11:15 <z-man-work> Now that I have both of your attention: if Lucifer_arma says acme should be dropped, then Luke-Jr should drop it
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> or having to spend considerable time rearranging it
11:16 <Lucifer_arma> so if I don't have to do either of those things to do the restructuring I want, then I don't actually care if it's brought in
11:16 <philippeqc> subversion required 2 exclusives libs here. Their descriptions are lib64svn_fs_base1_0:"FS implementation using BDB for Subversion" and lib64svn_fs_fs1_0:"FS implementation using FSFS backend for Subversion". I cant make sense of that. Which one should I use?
11:16 <Lucifer_arma> like, if I could just "svndelete *" and start fresh, I'm cool with that.
11:16 <z-man-work> What kind of rearranging do you have in mind? SVN supports file moves.
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> one file at a time rearranging :)
11:17 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: svn delete also works :)
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> because in cvs, I could delete all the files and add the new ones, but that's a lot of work
11:17 <z-man-work> I guess in SVN, you can recursively delete everything
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> a lot of work I don't want to do, I'd rather have a new module for it. Then you get into having an acme and an acme-qt/current/whatever module
11:18 <z-man-work> philippeqc: I guess this decision is only important if you want to run the svn server
11:18 <Lucifer_arma> so anyway, if I could just delete the acme module and import a new one from here, I don't really care. It's just diskspace, then. But you see the dilemma with cvs, right?
11:18 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you don't need to do either of those, no
11:19 <philippeqc> z-man-work: That was the only guess I could formulate.
11:19 <Lucifer_arma> and I was waiting to deal with it until I had a working pyqt version :)
11:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I would just be doing 'svn move .../acme/trunk .../acme/branches/acme-pygame', and then you'd import the new stuff into trunk
11:19 <z-man-work> philippeqc: perhaps there is a svn-client module you can install?
11:19 <philippeqc> I guess the server will be of type "svnserve" and not "http/dav"
11:19 <z-man-work> Otherwise, the choice doesn't matter, and FSFS probably has less dependency overhead
11:20 <philippeqc> z-man-work: that is what I'm doing, but it has some dependencies that have exclusive choices ;)
11:20 <z-man-work> Wait, so you have a conflict and can't work around it?
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> you're using Mandriva, right philippeqc ?
11:21 <philippeqc> no no, it offers me choice between 2 lib for the fs, and 3 lib for the type of access.
11:21 <philippeqc> yes Lucifer_arma
11:21 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, after the import, you can just move the old module out of your way
11:22 <philippeqc> seing that the server access seems exclusive of other, and one is "local", I can safely ignore this one. But if we have a http/dav or svnserve server seems to be the important decision to be made.
11:22 <Luke-Jr> so what is the verdict on:
11:22 <Luke-Jr> branches: world-0-1, soundOpenAL, shaped_arenas, keyauth, connector-a, b0_2_8_map, b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:23 <z-man-work> keyauth is yours, I recon
11:23 <Luke-Jr> tags: v0_2_7_0_before_security_fixes, v0_2_7_0_after_security_fixes, rc8, rc7, rc6, rc5, rc3, keyauth_root
11:23 <philippeqc> world* shaped* connector* can go
11:23 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: is it? hehe; I forget
11:23 <z-man-work> b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode have all been merged back
11:24 <z-man-work> connector-a and world-0-1 are philippeqc's
11:24 <philippeqc> b0_2_8_map is actual development code, so there is the history factor, but otherwise I really dont mind
11:24 <philippeqc> but I dont think I was the onlyone involved on b0_2_8, so others might have a say on it
11:25 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: everything is remaining in history
11:25 <z-man-work> The rc tags were planned to be replacable for new releases. Junk.
11:25 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so they aren't actual RCs?
11:26 <z-man-work> v0_2_7_0_before_security_fixes, v0_2_7_0_after_security_fixes were used to backport the security fixes in 0.2.7, which gives them an almonst-version like character. But they won't be used any more, so they're junk, too.
11:26 <z-man-work> the rc tags were real rc's of 0.2.7.1
11:26 <philippeqc> you can drop them then. The work done there isnt worth anything, and really not worth trying to merge it with head. And it will clear up the number of branches
11:27 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so how about I rename those to 0.2.7.1_rcX
11:27 <z-man-work> If yoy like
11:27 <z-man-work> you
11:27 <z-man-work> oh, will all the release tags get *proper* names like that?
11:27 <Luke-Jr> just thought of that
11:28 <Luke-Jr> 4c =p
11:28 <Luke-Jr> or maybe it should be pre-4a
11:28 <z-man-work> eh?
11:28 <Luke-Jr> a new stage
11:28 <z-man-work> ah
11:28 <z-man-work> I'd make it 4c
11:29 <z-man-work> because by then, you have reworked the hierarchy so the renaming is less work
11:29 <Luke-Jr> O.o it is?
11:30 <z-man-work> Not really, we didn't have the auxiliary modules when we made 0.2.7.1, iirc
11:30 <Luke-Jr> so anyway... soundOpenAL, b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:31 <z-man-work> You heard Lucifer_arma on soundOpenAL, he'd like to restart it anew. The others are only of historical insterest.
11:31 <z-man-work> interest
11:32 <z-man-work> Would there be a harm in moving the stuff you'd delete into a "Historical" section instead?
11:32 <z-man-work> Apart from people fetching the whole repository getting all that old junk downloaded?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> what the hell does it take to establish residency?!?
11:33 <z-man-work> ?
11:33 <z-man-work> context?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's considered a resident, my kids are going to public schools here, and I've been here for nearly 2 years again
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> school
11:33 <z-man-work> and you're not considered resident?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'm self-employed, and never bothered to get a tax id number
11:34 <z-man-work> ah
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> so I don't have a local employer
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't get a texas driver's license right away, in fact I just got it yesterday
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> didn't register to vote, the nearest elections of interest were several years out still
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> didn't register any cars in my name, it wasn't necessary and it was much more convenient for my wife to go do it
11:34 <z-man-work> Well, if they have no documents of you, you don't exist.
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> argh
11:35 <Luke-Jr> I don't exist either
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> I signed a lease, opened a bank account with a local credit union
11:35 <z-man-work> Anybody could do that
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> she's going to bend the rules and take the lease, the bank account, and a letter I need to get written by someone who knows me
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> she said because of my record, so I guess a 4.0 GPA is worth *something* :)
11:35 <Luke-Jr> at least you have ID
11:36 <z-man-work> She? The office lady?
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> my washington license still had a year on it when I got here. When you intend to reside in a place for a considerable amount of time, it matters not if you do the documentation right away
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the admissions lady I just talked to on the phone. It's frustrating because back in November, about two years ago, they said "just the last page of your lease is enough to establish residency"
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> so I didn't even *think* I needed more thn that, right?
11:37 <z-man-work> right
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> this past November, "a bank account and your lease is enough"
11:37 <Luke-Jr> hm
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> so again, no reason to even *think* I needed more
11:37 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if I could get ID with my lease
11:37 <z-man-work> Hooray for the German system, if we don't register with the town six weeks after a move, we're fined.
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> just now, "well, that's not enough either".
11:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: sucks
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> technically I'm suppposed to pay a fine for my driver's license renewal, but since I let it expire and took the test fresh, no fine
11:38 <z-man-work> sort of, but it protects us against such mishaps
11:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: a lease *should* be enough to prove residency
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> so when I got pissed, she caved and made a compromise that won't be a problem for me. :)
11:39 <z-man-work> I can imagine that.
11:39 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: getting pissed can sometimes help
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> I understand their reasoning, and I understand that for 99% of the people going to school, it's not a problem.
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> and if I had caved and got a real job when I moved here, it wouldn't have been a problem. Heh.
11:40 <Luke-Jr> pfft
11:40 <Luke-Jr> self-employment is real
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> you'd think "independent" Texans would respect that.
11:40 * Lucifer_arma wipes sarcasm off his chin
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they'd have cared if the company I mostly work for wasn't based in California, haha
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> if it was Dell, they'd fall over backwards trying to please me, I shit you not
11:42 <Luke-Jr> grr
11:42 <Luke-Jr> cvs2svn seems to suck somewhat
11:42 <Lucifer_arma> most converters suck somewhat
11:42 <Luke-Jr> apparently it doesn't detect renames/copies, not even for brnaching
11:43 <z-man-work> Umm, because they don't exist in CVS?
11:43 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: it can still detect them
11:43 <Luke-Jr> and *should* for a branch
11:43 <z-man-work> And if two files are just coincidentally equal, making it a move operation would be wrong?
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> it should detect the branch, I think
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> but not copies or renames. :)
11:44 <Luke-Jr> oh well, I have ~2 weeks to figure something out I guess
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> well, wait a minute. branching doesn't really exist in svn either, does it?
11:44 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: what do you mean by "branching" here?
11:45 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2F&rev=0&sc=1&isdir=1
11:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: branching is a copy
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> right, but it's fundamentally different in cvs and svn, possibly incompatibly different
11:46 <z-man-work> And it looks like it made b0_2_8 a real branch, there are revisions missing
11:47 <Luke-Jr> at least it seems to have tracked the changes within the branch
11:47 <Luke-Jr> http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2Farmagetronad%2Fsrc%2Ftron%2FgGame.cpp&rev=0&sc=1&isdir=0
11:48 <z-man-work> Oh wait, does "branching does not work" mean that the start point of a branch will look like a new import?
11:48 <Lucifer_arma> it should be a copy operation, shouldn't it?
11:49 <z-man-work> It does seem to preserve the full history
11:50 <z-man-work> http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2Farmagetronad%2Fsrc%2Ftron%2FgGame.cpp&rev=3624&sc=1&page=4
11:50 <z-man-work> There is the branching point
11:50 * Luke-Jr notices the "Show All" link
11:50 <Luke-Jr> oops
11:50 <z-man-work> It's quite a long history :)
11:51 <Luke-Jr> nm
11:51 <Luke-Jr> 2186 /branches/b0_2_8/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp 287d 23h 4m This commit was manufactured by cvs2svn to create branch 'b0_2_8'.
11:51 <Luke-Jr> 2102 /trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp z-man 300d 18h 18m Improved exception handling in the ingame menu
11:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/SvnIntro <-- should probably link that on the forums
11:52 * z-man-work is now really away
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that I like the way tags are handled by svn
11:52 <Luke-Jr> ...
11:52 <Luke-Jr> why
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: WAIT!
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: are we dropping the Root tags?
11:53 <z-man-work> Would they be required to get to the root of a branch?
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's supposed to be a pointer to a snapshot of the source, right? not the same thing as a copy of the snapshot at that time
11:53 <z-man-work> If yes, no, if no, then yes :)
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> no, they're not, I don't think
11:53 <z-man-work> I don't think, either
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: no, you'd just need to note the revision that the branch was made
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, I read on the svn site that to get to the root of the branch, just look in the log to the revision that starts the branch
11:54 <z-man-work> Then they're junk
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> then check out that revision
11:54 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, I'd imagine that would be possible
11:54 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: a copy is a pointer in Svn
11:54 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: until you modify something in the copy
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> right, I think the root tags thing shows what tags are for :)
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> you not only go to the root of the branch, but you go there and then step forward from it
11:55 <z-man-work> Err, no
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> which, granted, is probably still possible starting with a copy
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> no?
11:55 <z-man-work> The Root_ tags are on the parent branch
11:55 <z-man-work> At least the ones I created manually
11:56 <z-man-work> I don't know about the ones Eclipse made
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhh. Ok. doesn't change what I meant, but ok, I didn't really know what the Root_ tags were then :)
11:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: so you would rather delete the openAL branch instead of do a merge from HEAD?
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yes
11:56 <Luke-Jr> ok
11:56 <z-man-work> Gaa, don't merge things from HEAD into branches
11:56 <Luke-Jr> so how about b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:56 <z-man-work> All merged back
11:57 <Luke-Jr> so delete?
11:57 <z-man-work> yes
11:57 <Luke-Jr> ok
11:57 * z-man-work hopes Luke-Jr is taking notes
11:57 <Luke-Jr> done w/ the arma modules, then
11:57 * Luke-Jr is
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the way I'm thinking about handling OpenAL, if it works out, means I won't need a branch anyway
11:57 <Luke-Jr> o
11:57 * Lucifer_arma keeps two logs of the channel, and grep is the best note-taker
11:58 <Luke-Jr> grep loses context ;)
11:58 <Lucifer_arma> -B -A :)
11:58 <z-man-work> grep -C 10 ?
11:59 <Lucifer_arma> haha. I pissed off my government teacher when he said something, then I told him that was different than what he'd said 2 weeks ago, and he said it wasn't,
11:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I grepped my notes and read off exactly what he said 2 weeks ago. :)
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> man, I need to write my notetaker program. I want it to record at the same time and timestamp notes, so in that situation I could have even played the recording for him to hear himself saying it.
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> but alas, no note-taker program yet
12:02 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: IIRC, you have questions on the forum =p
12:03 <Luke-Jr> yeah... winlibs stuff
12:05 <z-man-work> winlibs is closely coupled to our releases
12:05 <z-man-work> You can't build 0.2.8 with winlibs 0.2.7
12:05 <z-man-work> you may have a chance to build 0.2.7 with winlibs 0.2.8, but it's slim :)
12:06 <z-man-work> Yeah, it's just a collection of librarties, but quite essential for the convenience of the Windows builders
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> seems like in the future we should "tag" winlibs with codenames :)
12:07 <z-man-work> Because it's HELL to install and use libraries in Win :)
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> so you'd need Artemis winlibs to build Artemis (0.2.8), and bachus winlibs to build head, until we release bacchus
12:07 <z-man-work> IIRC, there were minor changes to winlibs even in b0_2_8
12:08 <z-man-work> minor == reverting from SDL 1.2.9 to 1.2.7
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, so there'd be a latest revision of winlibs under Artemis
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12:08 <Lucifer_arma> and an earlier revision, eh?
12:08 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know the full scope of the problem, mind you.
12:08 <z-man-work> minded
12:08 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: and the libs aren't at least theoretically interchangable?
12:08 <z-man-work> theoretically, they are
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> wasn't the SDl reversion because of an SDL bug?
12:09 <z-man-work> yes
12:09 <z-man-work> Although reverting probably didn't fix it
12:09 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so perhaps split winlibs into tags/trunk?
12:09 <z-man-work> or it wasn't done properly, anyway, it wasn't an important bug
12:09 <Luke-Jr> or do you need branches?
12:10 <z-man-work> yes, winlibs needs branches
12:10 <z-man-work> what's the problem with treating it exactly like armagetronad_build?
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, assuming it worked for the sake of discussion, the libraries are interchangeable, just that iwth one verison you might be affected by a certain bug caused by the underlying library, right?
12:10 <z-man-work> ok, assuming that
12:10 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: if I checkout the entire 'armagetronad' project trunk, I'd rather not get dlls =p
12:11 * Lucifer_arma notes that dll's in windows don't suffer the same ABI problems so's in Linux suffer from
12:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: the only shared object with such problems I have seen is DirectFB =p
12:11 <guru3> abi?
12:11 <guru3> all bullshit industries?
12:11 <guru3> x)
12:11 <Luke-Jr> guru3: binary compatibility
12:11 <guru3> aw :( that's no fun
12:11 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: yes, that's a point
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> aliases are needed. It would be nice if you could have an alias to check out all that's needed for windows :)
12:11 <z-man-work> hmm
12:12 <z-man-work> aliases would be cool
12:12 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: ABI is the format of the library, or something like that. It's why you can't link to a library built with gcc 2.9 while building with gcc 4.0
12:12 <z-man-work> but I suppose you'd need symlinks for that
12:12 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: at least, for C++ libraries, anyway
12:12 <guru3> they're only called aliases in osx. links in *nix and shortcuts in windows
12:12 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: because GCC 2.9's ABI had bugs =p
12:12 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: those bugs were all resolved in 3.3 or such, IIRC
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> and gcc 3.0, nd gcc 3.1, and gcc 3.2, and what a fucking mess
12:13 <Luke-Jr> so don't use pre-3.3
12:13 <z-man-work> Aw, I give in. If both Luke-Jr and Lucifer_arma say winlibs isn't equal to the _build things, than it can stay out
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> as usual Luke, that's orthogonal to the discussion
12:13 <z-man-work> then
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> eh? keeping in mind that I don't know the scope of the problem, heh :)
12:14 * Luke-Jr notes neither Lucifer_arma nor Luke-Jr use Windoze ;)
12:14 <z-man-work> Yes, but what you said was nevertheless true
12:14 <Luke-Jr> ok
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, my point about ABI was that you don't have that problem with dll's in windows, just the link libraries, and Microsoft intentionally changes those to break compatibility for other compilers :)
12:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: actually, you do sometimes
12:15 <Luke-Jr> I can't use a MingW DLL from Cygwin
12:15 <z-man-work> Would SVN allow it to check the entire "armagetronad" trunk with all _build subdirectories, and put winlibs *into* that checkout?
12:15 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: probably
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: gcc problems again. :)
12:16 <z-man-work> Not so important, anyway, there would be no loss of comfort if I'd have to check out armagetronad, armagetronad_build_codeblocks and armagetronad_winlibs separately
12:16 <z-man-work> because that's what I have to do in CVS
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> seems like if we could put symlinks into svn, we could solve that problem
12:17 <z-man-work> Windows doesn't have symlinks
12:17 <z-man-work> last time I checked, anyway
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> windows doesn't need it, the client doesn't need it at all.
12:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Svn supports symlinks, but only under *nix
12:17 <guru3> i have to know about the psychology of dysfunctional behaivour tomorrow :/
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> because you'd check out a symlink, but get the underlying directories.
12:17 <z-man-work> guru3: you've come to the right place :)
12:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: if you checkout a symlink under windoze, you get nothing
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> or rather, in my world, that's how it would work
12:17 <guru3> lol z-man
12:17 <Luke-Jr> complain to Svn idiots
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> if you checked out a symlink you'd get the file/directory itself instead :)
12:18 * Lucifer_arma looks at the purple sky. My world rules!
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: what do you have to know about dysfunctional behavior?
12:19 * z-man-work is really really away?
12:19 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: aww
12:19 <Luke-Jr> no you're not
12:19 <z-man-work> what else?
12:19 <z-man-work> It's late and I want to go swimming after I finish some work up
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like you'll get contaminated by the evil sunrays
12:20 <z-man-work> darn, that makes Luke-Jr right
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day
12:20 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: unfortunately, the outside pool is still closed because the harsh winter demolished quite a lot of tiles
12:21 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: lots :/
12:23 <guru3> like anorexia falls into that category
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, you know, I don't have any problems checking out a whole slew of dll's--if it'll make it easier for windows developers to get involved in development
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> or testers.
12:26 * Lucifer_arma is thinking of Self_Destructo trying to build armagetron
12:26 <guru3> i just found some ASM in my psy notes Oo
12:26 <guru3> musta been when i was researching asm for my calc ><
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> because it's a one-time checkout, right?
12:27 <guru3> you need to depressed for TWO weeks before anyone cares :D
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> well guru3, I don't think I can help you with this one for two reasons. :) 1: need specific range, and 2: it's been a year since I took my psych class, I couldn't give answers in the detail you need anyway
12:27 <guru3> that's the official diagnostic criteriea
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> only 2 weeks?
12:27 <guru3> according to DSM4
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> it's just like you have to be missing for 24 hours before the cops care :)
12:28 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yeah, but you also get updates etc. No, it doesn't make life of Developers significantly easier.
12:28 <guru3> and you can't be depressed if you've had a manic episode
12:28 <guru3> i love this categorization
12:28 <guru3> it's hillarious
12:28 <guru3> it's like playing monopoly :D
12:28 <guru3> you're not allowed to be depressed if someone's died you know
12:29 <guru3> or if you're psycotic or schizophrenic
12:30 <guru3> and if you're not impared by your depression you're not depressed :D
12:30 <guru3> and you have to feel guilty
12:31 <guru3> and if you're depressed there's a 5% chance that it's cause there's something even more screwed up with you
12:31 <guru3> this stuff just kills me :D
12:31 <guru3> and watch out being depressed over 55%
12:31 <guru3> you've got a 60% chance of comitting suicide!
12:31 <guru3> yikes!
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> I found studying depression was in itself a depressing experience
12:32 <guru3> get this
12:32 <guru3> you can't get depression from street drugs
12:32 <guru3> but using street drugs makes depression worse
12:32 <guru3> oh what a fun merry go round!
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: updates are few and far between, though. but if it doesn't help much....
12:33 <guru3> g2g dinner
12:33 <guru3> bbl
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12:49 <Luke-Jr> any win dev here? z-man-work ?
12:50 <Luke-Jr> is winlibs specific to build/visualc?
13:07 <guru3> back
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit. I got an 89 on the test I intentionally bombed, and a 92 on the test I intentionally didn't bomb.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> luckily the 89 was dropped, as I knew it would be which is why I intentionally bombed it, but man. Only a 3 point difference? I'm not sure what's scarier,
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> the fact that I intentionally bombed with an 89, or the fact that I actually worked for a 92.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> (Texas Government, otherwise a blow-off class)
13:20 <guru3> what the heck is the point of that class anyway?
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> requirements of the Texas Legislature
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> 6 credits of US GOvernment, of which 3 may be Texas Government
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> that goes along with 6 credits of History, 3 of math, and some others, to get a 4-year degree in Texas
13:21 <guru3> that's... odd
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> so the requirements exist for any college/university in the state
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> why odd? Makes sense to me.
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> irritating, but sensible
13:22 <guru3> oh i dunno
13:22 <guru3> sounds boring
13:22 <Luke-Jr> do you get to learn how to overthrow the US gov't?
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> it is. But for a democracy/republic to work, citizens have to be educated on how it works
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: those classes are reserved for government majors
13:22 <Luke-Jr> last I checked, college isn't required
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> no it's not. :)
13:23 <Luke-Jr> and in fact, those who do go to college are generally brainwashed to do what the gov't wants anyway
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> but if you have to know more history and math to get a degree than you did to get a diploma, why not require extending government knowledge as well?
13:23 <Luke-Jr> shouldn't need those either
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, the history legislation was passed because UT alumni is a powerful interest group in Texas. :) It's basically welfare for history teachers.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> I disagree. A college education implies greater ability in certain areas that studying history and math provide.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the reason I know the history legislation was passed was because I took the Texas Government class and learned it there. :)
13:25 <Luke-Jr> what does anything beyond 50 years of history help with computer science?
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> depends on how narrow your focus is. I'm working in the CRM field, specifically CRM/CMS, and having an understanding of different cultures is an advantage
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> also, having an understanding of why certain business operate like they do is also an advantage
13:26 <Luke-Jr> see, I wouldn't consider geography/cultures to be history
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> so, having an understanding in US History gives me a good baseline and reduces the amount I have to learn fresh
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't really study a culture without its history.
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> you can learn all about a Compaq Presario R3000, but if you know history of computers 1980+, you know a lot more about my laptop than you'd have if you only studied it by itself
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, besides that, I'm after aerospace engineering anyway, and a good knowledge of at least the last 300 years of history will be very helpful
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> without it, I might be inclined to sell my abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of who they are. Which could result in me developing rockets that cause a lot of people to die...
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13:49 <wrtl_web_broken> Luke: winlibs is specific to windows, but can be used with both codeblocks and visualc
13:50 <wrtl_web_broken> at least that's my view of it, never having compiled on windows myself
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14:15 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4987116.stm
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> In the UK, leading Catholics also demanded a "health warning" after a survey of 1,000 people suggested that reading the original book could undermine a belief in Christian traditions.
14:46 <GodTodd> if anything undermines your belief system, was it truly your belief system in the first place?
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15:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you know, I was thinking that most of the really freaking devout people I've known of any faith would never find their faith shattered by a movie
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> and why should they? It's just a freaking movie!
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> you're talking about faith supported by real life experiences, whatever you or I may think of it, it's still supported by real life experiences, frequently traumatic in the really devout folks I'e known
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> Come on, the man that did 9 years in prison for attempted murder because they couldn't prove he actually killed the guy, just that he tried, while junked up on heroin,
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> then found Jesus in jail and turned his life around is *not* going to have his faith changed by this movied
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> *movie
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> and then Christianity has built-in guards for this sort of thing anyway, including some pretty harsh penalties for those who try to shake a Christian's faith
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> add it all up, and I think the position churches tend to take over blasphemous movies only weakens them
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> and these protests don't make them look a whole lot different than the "protestors" over the muhammed cartoons, except they haven't killed anybody--yet
15:18 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
15:19 * Lucifer_arma politely greets n54
15:20 * n54 is shocked but manages to say:
15:20 <n54> hi
15:20 <n54> what's with the politeness? *extremely curious*
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> passively-aggressively poking fun at z-man-home :)
15:21 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
15:21 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:21 * Lucifer_arma is a big believer in good manners, it may surprise you to learn.
15:22 <n54> I'm not sure I'm surprised about that really
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> damn. I just realized I've committed myself to spend the next 2 hours on the phone with parts guys
15:23 <n54> auto parts?
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, gruff exteriors notwithstanding, mutual respect shown outwardly goes a long way to mediate any disagreements
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, auto parts
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> I just pulled the wheels off my celica to see what I needed for brakes
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> the brakes aren't bad, really. Rotors probably won't turn again, but the hydraulics are all in good shape, pads and shoes worn evenly
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> if the rotors weren't chewed up a bit, I'd be tempted to just pad slap her and get it on
15:24 <n54> yeah I agree on that but I do understand that it can wear thin and then it's better to be honet imo
15:24 <n54> honest*
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> but alas, the tread is starting to separate from one of the tires.
15:24 * Lucifer_arma invites n54 to politely fuck off
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> see what I mean? :)
15:24 <n54> hehe
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not saying manners are a substitute for honest relations...
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> so I need two new tires added to the parts list
15:25 <n54> yeah I know
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I already intended to price a starter and power steering pump, two components known to be going bad but not bad yet
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd pretty much decided on a new battery, although I'd feel a lot better about replacing the battery if the starter were replaced as well
15:25 <n54> however I think you go a bit hard at Luke sometimes
15:26 <n54> not that I should say anything really
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> "mutual respect shown"
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> that was a requirement, remember?
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> I won't disagree with you, but I likely won't regret it either. Whenever I've encountered skulls as thick as his, I've found that there's very little you can do about it
15:27 <n54> I'm not saying it doesn't take two to "fight" - it always does :)
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> if you've got a better way, I'd like to see it. However my own experience indicates that extreme hostility will either cause him to rethink his attitudes and possibly correct his behavior,
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> or chase him out.
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> and even if I get chased out as a result of the whole thing, project's better off no matter what.
15:28 <n54> sometimes time does help but as I said I really shouldn't say anything about it
15:28 * Lucifer_arma rips into n54 :)
15:28 <n54> :)
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> I've faced down some pretty tough people and seen some amazing results. :)
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, I've seen plenty of people walk away and even gotten myself in hot water on occasion
15:29 <n54> I'm not in the cat-herding business so... :D
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> you wouldn't happen to know how I can reference cells absolutely in OO.o, would you?
15:30 <n54> in openoffice? absolutely no idea, but they like to me office-like so perhaps $A$1 ?
15:30 <n54> be*
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> heh. How do you do it in excel, then? :)
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's how it's done in KDE, I'll try it
15:31 <n54> it's been years since I had anything to do with that sort of stuff though so...
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> er, KSpread
15:31 <n54> ah ok
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm going to call no less than 3 parts houses, and, well, spreadsheet, obviously
15:31 <n54> $A$1 in excel too iirc
15:31 <n54> aha, smart
15:32 * n54 used to certify/teach people in that kind of stuff but I'e forgotten it all
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> wound up setting it up without that need
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> realized I needed core charges in there too
15:39 <n54> ?
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> um, when you buy a remanufactured part, they want your old part, whatever it is
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> then they take your old part and stick it in a factory where they take it apart, measure all components of it and throw out whatever's bad
15:41 <GodTodd> they want that even if you buy a battery new tho
15:41 <n54> oh
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> whatever's good they put in a pile (essentially). Then they order new parts to replace all the broken parts and put that all on the assembly line
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> hence the work Remanufactured
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> batteries are different. Those are recycling costs, because you can't just toss your battery in the garbage
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> *word
15:42 <GodTodd> right
15:43 <n54> any of you been to those airplane graveyards? (guess it might only be in south california?)
15:43 <GodTodd> been a while since i bought a computer monitor...do they do the core charge thing too? since you can't just throw them away either legally?
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> not that I know of, GodTodd. I've never bought a computer monitor, though. :)
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> n54: no, I haven't been to one of those
15:44 <n54> no I don't think so, they try to recucle materials only afaik
15:44 <GodTodd> i have...one....many years ago
15:44 <n54> recycle*
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> I've checked out some boat salvage yards, though
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, salvage yards are similar. You just get used parts from them, known good parts, but used nonetheless
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> whatever's left they crush and recycle
15:44 * Lucifer_arma used to work on a salvage yard
15:44 <GodTodd> like auto UPull It places...
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> and if my employer hadn't been such a jerk, it would have been the best time I'd ever had
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> nah, UPull is attractive, but you get a higher percentage of parts that don't work
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> good for body parts, but then I don't want to go out to a yard and pull fenders and doors and crap
15:45 <GodTodd> very true....all i ever pulled from them was door handles for my old 85 Omni heh
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> I think it's well worth the extra price to pay professionals to do all that for me. :)
15:46 <GodTodd> for 80% off...i did them myself and was happy :D
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, door handles, pfft. 2 minutes
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> for both :)
15:46 <GodTodd> exactly
15:46 <GodTodd> nah...4 :P
15:46 <GodTodd> lol
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> I got to where I could take a fully assembled door and get the glass, window regulator, and handle out of it in like 30 seconds
15:47 <GodTodd> wasn't paying 20$ for one handle for a bucket o' bolts
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> 45 seconds if the door was stuck shut (like against a wall or something)
15:50 <GodTodd> i need to find a junk car that i can just tear apart....learn how it all works and goes back together....to learn the basics....haven't found the time yet
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> don't tell me Van's is out of business!?!?
15:51 <GodTodd> ok...i won't
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh no, wait a minute, I limited my search to Round Rock, that's right
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> Van's doesn't have a location up here
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> yay, so Advanced, van's, and ummm, the 'zone
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot, most of these guys have their catalogs online. I don't have to call anybody :)
16:09 <wrtlprnft> grr wrtl_web_broken is still there...
16:10 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
16:10 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:10 <n54> :)
16:11 <wrtlprnft> I just don't like the fact that i need to restart my webserver for that...
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> #g 18.99+12.88+14.99+22.99
16:11 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 18.99 + 12.88 + 14.99 + 22.99 = 69.85
16:12 <n54> oh... yeah there must be a better way
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> so, for the equivalent of a Just Brakes 4-wheel friction reline for 99.88 (in most cases) + front hardware and front rotors, I'm looking at 69.85
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, take it to just brakes or do it myself....
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmmmmmm...................
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> (that joke's probably only funny if you're in an area that got saturated with Just Brakes commercials ~5 years ago)
16:13 <n54> *woosh* here
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> Our system is having trouble finding Brakes . We're sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
16:15 <n54> heh
16:16 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["hey how you doin"]
16:17 <wrtlprnft> :D
16:17 <wrtlprnft> I'm getting better at killing spam on the wiki :)
16:18 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is that it's still there for about 4 hours... that's plenty of time for a search engine to index it
16:18 <wrtlprnft> which is exactly what those bastards want :(
16:18 <n54> hmm, I wonder how wikipedia deals with it
16:20 <wrtlprnft> well
16:20 <wrtlprnft> they have waaaay more users
16:20 <wrtlprnft> obvious spam like that survives about 30 seconds
16:20 <wrtlprnft> since there's always someone somewhere in the world checking the recent changes
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> is it possible to make a column in OO.o that doesn't scroll with the bottom scrollbar?
16:22 <n54> ah ok so it's just an issue of human reaction.... perhaps one could automate quarantine of users who post links in their first post ever? (would include quarantining all following posts as well until the quarantine is lifted)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I'm in favor of exercising the nuclear option with spammers
16:23 <wrtlprnft> I dunno
16:24 <n54> in a spreadsheat Lucifer? hmm there should be...
16:24 <wrtlprnft> i think it would be enough to hack the user registration page a bit
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> captcha will probably help whenever I get it on there
16:24 <wrtlprnft> just change the name of the username field, then automated spambots for mediawiki have no chance
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> that's kinda assuming they use the name of the username field
16:25 <wrtlprnft> capchas always have that nasti accessibility issue
16:25 <wrtlprnft> well
16:25 <n54> if you want to change that name just make it an alias rather than have to change the name everywhere (in tables etc.)
16:25 <wrtlprnft> they somehow have to register the spam user
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> username and password fields are usually linked somehow, so you can just look for password type and te the textbox before it for username
16:25 <n54> alias can be used for the pw too
16:25 <wrtlprnft> well then
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> I thought about the accessibility issue with captchas, and I don't think it'll be a problem for us.
16:25 <wrtlprnft> put another inputbox between them and hide it with CSS
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> if you have a hard time seeing the captcha, chances are pretty good you'd have a hard time playing the game in the first place :)
16:26 <wrtlprnft> true
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> and if that's not true, then I'll be happy to help anyone having problems dealing with the capcha
16:26 <wrtlprnft> maybe put a big notice somewhere
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> n54: it's the <input type="password" part that we can't get around
16:27 <wrtlprnft> then, on the other hand bots get smart and learn to read capchas
16:27 <n54> hmm yeah didn't think of that... still if one has multiple ones (some of which are hidden and discarded that might throw off the bots
16:27 <n54> perhaps that was what wrtlprnft already said?
16:27 <wrtlprnft> yes, indeed
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> no, they'd probably just fill them all with something that's the same, heh
16:28 <wrtlprnft> then...
16:28 <n54> ok but that should be easy to check for right?
16:28 * n54 thinks that would work
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> we're assuming the bots are reading the form in the first place, of course. If they're not, then we can just rename the fields and we're fine, for awhile anyway
16:28 <wrtlprnft> make a field and put a text beside it, "please type the word 'armagetron' into this field"?
16:28 <n54> like checking that only password number 4 was filled in
16:29 <n54> they are probably reading the form
16:29 <wrtlprnft> like, captcha that everyone can deal with
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> n54: the solution from the bot-writers is to fill them all in with exactly the same data
16:29 <n54> yeah Lucifer but the point is that humans wouldn't
16:29 <n54> they'd only use one of them
16:29 <n54> (the displayed one)
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I get you
16:30 <n54> this was wrtlprnft idea though :)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I like that one
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> where's the patch?
16:30 <wrtlprnft> i think even the simplest way would be sufficient as long there's enough stupid people with an unhacked wiki
16:30 <wrtlprnft> well
16:30 <n54> in wrtlprnft's fingers? :)
16:30 <wrtlprnft> i won't write a patch for an outdated version of mediawiki... maybe upgrade? :D
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I see how it is
16:31 <n54> just hack the front page imo ;) *quick & dirty makes the day* ;P
16:31 * Lucifer_arma has a car to fix
16:31 <wrtlprnft> well... can you send me the wiki dir as a tar?
16:31 <wrtlprnft> i doubt i can get the exact version you have
16:32 <n54> probably good idea so as to avoid unnecessary work
16:32 <n54> the tar that is
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's not bad, $28 for a tire
16:33 <n54> new?
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> of course new
16:34 <n54> good ;)
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> I already have used tires. :)
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> so, my wishlist is 368.25
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g 368.25 * 1.0865
16:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 368.25 * 1.0865 = 400.103625
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> ~400 with tax
16:37 <wrtlprnft> nice round taxes you have
16:37 <wrtlprnft> 8.65% O_o
16:37 <n54> hehe
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> #g 368.25 * 1.08
16:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 368.25 * 1.08 = 397.71
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> see the difference?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3.41 * 1000000
16:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3.41 * 1,000,000 = 3,410,000
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> That's an extra 3.4 million dollars for the city of Austin
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> $47 for the other car :(
16:40 <GodTodd> capitalism at its finest....you make more getting a little from many than a lot from a few :D
16:40 <n54> :)
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> 465.25 including 2 tires for the camry
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> #g 465.25 * 1.0865
16:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 465.25 * 1.0865 = 505.494125
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> damn, an extra hundred bucks
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's gonna bitch about the power steering pump, starter, and battery for tht price
16:42 <wrtlprnft> well... actually 1.65 would be rounded up, eh?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> so be happy :D
16:42 <n54> my thought too wrtlprnft :D
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> a dollar and 65 cents? Rounded up?
16:42 <n54> $2
16:42 <wrtlprnft> 1.56% i mean
16:42 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
16:42 <Self_Destructo> hi everyone
16:42 <wrtlprnft> 1.65% i mean
16:42 <wrtlprnft> morning
16:42 <n54> hi SD :)
16:42 <Self_Destructo> lol
16:43 <Self_Destructo> not morning
16:43 <wrtlprnft> whatever
16:43 <wrtlprnft> morning in australia i think
16:43 <Self_Destructo> i guess so
16:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, australia and russia
16:43 * wrtlprnft likes kWorldClock
16:43 <n54> nah not russia/asia
16:44 <wrtlprnft> yeah, china/japan and friends
16:44 <n54> sure?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:44 * n54 would have figured more like mid-day
16:44 <n54> not important :)
16:45 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.azj
16:45 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/world.png
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> #g 900+1350
16:47 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 900 + 1,350 = 2,250
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> damn. Not the greatest month's pay, but I guess that's what's coming. :(
16:48 <n54> ok wrtlprnft :)
16:50 -!- Nixda885 [n=593703bb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:50 <Nixda885> hi
16:50 <n54> hi
16:50 -!- Nixda885 [n=593703bb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:50 <n54> drive-by hello :|
16:51 <GodTodd> and you were hit :D
16:52 <n54> hehe :)
16:56 -!- Nixda574 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:56 <Nixda574> hi
16:56 -!- Nixda574 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:57 <wrtlprnft> no wonder why that guy left
16:57 <GodTodd> they missed us all that time :D
16:57 <wrtlprnft> the second one was me, and it disconnected all by itself
16:57 <GodTodd> hmmm\
16:58 <n54> you use the same isp?
16:58 <wrtlprnft> no
16:58 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetron.nixda.net/
16:59 <wrtlprnft> click on chat
16:59 <n54> ok that explains it
16:59 * n54 didn't click on chat
17:00 -!- Nixda000 [n=a228aced@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:00 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:00 <n54> the webchat doesn't work nix
17:00 <Nixda000> heh
17:00 <Nixda000> yes it does
17:00 <Nixda000> this is SD
17:00 -!- Nixda314 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:00 <Nixda314> tryin again...
17:00 -!- Nixda394 [n=47c7cc90@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:01 <n54> ...
17:01 <Nixda314> lots of usery
17:01 <Nixda314> s
17:01 <Nixda000> lol
17:01 <Nixda314> hmm, now it doesn't disconnect me
17:01 * Nixda314 thinks we should all get nicks like that
17:01 <Nixda000> lol
17:01 <wrtlprnft> Nixda314: test
17:01 -!- Nixda000 [n=a228aced@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has left #armagetron []
17:01 -!- Nixda314 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:01 -!- Nixda394 [n=47c7cc90@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> y'all know that was joda, right?
17:05 <wrtlprnft> i know it's joda's site
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, now that I think about it, it might have been someone else, heh
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> he's probably been telling people about it
17:05 <wrtlprnft> well
17:05 <wrtlprnft> that site has a few visitors and is linked from aa.net
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> #g 289.78 * 1.065
17:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 289.78 * 1.06500 = 308.6157
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> that's not bad. Knocks almost 200 off the price
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> and my wife's not bitching about me wanting to replace parts that aren't technically broken yet
17:06 <wrtlprnft> so anyone might go to that site, switch to chat, log in, decide not to say anything useful, and leave again
17:06 <wrtlprnft> or it was psyko and as he saw Lucifer_arma and wrtlprnft he left
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> probably helps that I volunteered to charge the battery and see how bad the starter was
17:07 <wrtlprnft> *and he left
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I can't imagine psyko chickening out here. Seems like he'd stay and troll
17:07 <wrtlprnft> true
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you try the game yet?
17:07 <Self_Destructo> lol, yeah
17:07 <wrtlprnft> someone should gently direct 2020 to that site if he wants to talk about the ladle
17:08 <GodTodd> armagetron?
17:08 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad!
17:08 <GodTodd> :P
17:08 <wrtlprnft> important difference
17:08 <GodTodd> i play it every now and again
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> #g 195.78 * 1.0865
17:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 195.78 * 1.0865 = 212.71497
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> that's without tires for the camry
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> 412.71 with the state documentation needed to be legal
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you use this nickname or another one? Heh. Play network game?
17:11 <GodTodd> i use this one...just checked...must have been a while cuz i don't have the game installed on this laptop heh
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> damn slow-ass charger. It's a 1 amp charger. It'll take forever! I want to know *now* if the starter's any good!
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> 2 amp is like the industry standard trickle charge. 1 amp is just stupid. Why the hell did I buy a 1 amp charger?!?
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, I was going to tar up the wiki real quick
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> wiki.armagetronad.net/wiki.tar.gz
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/wiki.tar.gz
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> I excluded images and LocalSettings.php. You can probably grab those from any release
17:18 <n54> *nudges wrtlprnft just in case he's not here right now*
17:30 <wrtlprnft> ok, back from suppe
17:30 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:30 <wrtlprnft> Not Found
17:30 <wrtlprnft> The requested URL /wiki.tar.gz was not found on this server.
17:31 <wrtlprnft> Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.50 (Mandrakelinux/7mdk) mod_perl/1.99_16 Perl/v5.8.5 Server at wiki.armagetronad.net Port 80
17:31 <wrtlprnft> AdvancedExtranetServer O_o
17:31 <wrtlprnft> whatever that means
17:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ping ;)
17:33 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> try again, sorry
17:33 <wrtlprnft> thanks
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> it was one up from the wiki webroot
17:33 <wrtlprnft> np
17:34 <wrtlprnft> lol can't reach that i hope
17:34 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/../wiki.tar.gz
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no idea if that's the exact same file or the one that's one up
17:35 <wrtlprnft> but i guess it's the same
17:37 <wrtlprnft> can't test, since it seems like you removed that first- setup script (which is a good idea)
17:41 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:41 <ghableska> hi
17:41 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
17:42 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:42 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft
17:42 <wrtlprnft> (i mean ghableska)
17:42 <ghableska> ;)
17:45 <n54> hi :)
17:45 <ghableska> hi n54
17:55 <wrtlprnft> suure, just when i need mysql on my test server it doesn't work
17:55 <ghableska> :P
17:58 <wrtlprnft> now i have to find out why it doesn't start...the init script thinks it started, but actually it dies right away without so much as an error message or log entry
17:58 * wrtlprnft recompiles mysqld...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, yeah, I removed that setup script :)
18:06 <wrtlprnft> no, it's still there actually
18:06 <wrtlprnft> just refused to run since there was already a config file
18:07 <wrtlprnft> but now i just noticed that I have no mysql so i have to get that fixed first
18:10 <wrtlprnft> wow. 75 stupids on my server already
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: i never hit the button
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: why am i player 1
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: how do u make us say that
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: this place suks
18:12 <ghableska> lol
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: wtf u mother funken admin
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: wat a gay server
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: hmm?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: hey
18:12 <wrtlprnft> hehe
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i need a script that maps the "Player 1" in those chatlogs to the actual name the user had when he entered ;)
18:13 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:14 <wrtlprnft> unfortunately lots of the more well- known people are ignoring it or just disguised
18:15 <wrtlprnft> spidey was there, Vortex, some ct guy, loops, dook, and pyroto
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I thought I'd removed it. ok
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, why isn't the phptal template engine working? :(
18:18 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> what a freaking pain in the ass
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> there's a phptal engine for Drupal, and it doesn't work
18:19 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia phptal
18:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.14 seconds: Wikipedia:MediaWiki 1.4 release notes - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MediaWiki_1.4_release_notes>; User:Gwicke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gwicke>
18:19 <wrtlprnft> helpful
18:21 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
18:21 <Self_Destructo> is the xmlparser built into the game custom made or something?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> it's based on libxml2
18:22 <Self_Destructo> k
18:22 <wrtlprnft> but that class handles getting and processing the XML and provides an objectorientated interface
18:22 <Self_Destructo> why do we have t, r, c, ect. in front of filenames?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> that's the dir
18:22 <wrtlprnft> things in src/tools start with t
18:23 <wrtlprnft> in src/render it's r
18:23 <wrtlprnft> and in src/tron it's g since t is already taken
18:23 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:23 <wrtlprnft> also, global variables are prefixed with s<prefix>_name
18:23 <Self_Destructo> hm
18:23 <Self_Destructo> k
18:23 <wrtlprnft> so in src/tools it would be st_Breakpoint()
18:24 <wrtlprnft> basically to avoid name confusion and to make it easier to locate the definition
18:24 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:24 <wrtlprnft> looks like my mysql DB is screwed up :(
18:25 <Self_Destructo> i'm still studying C++ right now, will be for no telling how long
18:25 <wrtlprnft> well, you won't find those prefixes in the annotations
18:25 <Self_Destructo> I'm just fixing to find out what classes are in the next chapter
18:25 <wrtlprnft> basically structs with functions in them
18:25 <Self_Destructo> k
18:26 <Self_Destructo> well, i know what structs are. :p
18:26 <wrtlprnft> that's plain c stuff
18:26 <wrtlprnft> a class is a struct in which you can define functions
18:27 <wrtlprnft> and those functions have access to the object they were called with
18:29 <Self_Destructo> k
18:30 <Self_Destructo> well, I'll learn that soon enough
18:30 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> I think I just DOSd my server
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> I give up. No phptal for me. :(
18:49 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, successfully hacked the wiki
18:50 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Userlogin.php.txt
18:50 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/templates/Userlogin.php
18:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/SpecialUserlogin.php.txt
18:51 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/SpecialUserlogin.php
18:51 <wrtlprnft> and that's it :)
18:55 <wrtlprnft> i added two fields, one before and one after the "real" field, and a message that only shows up if CSS is not applied that tells you which one to fill out
18:56 <wrtlprnft> and they're named wpName, wpWrtlName and wpVoidName, in order
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> you got rid of the original fields, right?
19:25 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
19:26 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i didn't touch the password fields
19:26 <wrtlprnft> and the original username field is still there, but it's one of those you aren't supposed to change
19:26 <wrtlprnft> so it checks that field's content, and if it's not empty it throws an error
19:27 <wrtlprnft> and the other added field, wp_VoidName, has a default value and if that's changed it fails, too
19:28 <wrtlprnft> and wp_WrtlName is the "real" username field
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> aha, ok. I was just thinking that if you left the original fields and used them, it wouldn't work :)
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> how easy would it be to automatically ban IP addresses that fill in the fields they're not supposed to fill in?
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> also, how easy would it be to randomly generate the field names? Then you could send the patch back to the mediawiki folks :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> I don't think we want that
19:30 <n54> the banning shouldn't be neccessary as the bots will not be allowed further at all
19:31 <wrtlprnft> i don't want to send a patch anywhere, people should make a different hack for each wiki
19:31 <n54> however it could be nice for some sort of blacklist etc.
19:31 <wrtlprnft> if everyone uses it, the bots will get smarter
19:31 <n54> I kinda agree
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, I don't want to automatically ban people who fill in the wrong fields
19:32 <wrtlprnft> one reason is that current users of the wiki might use password managers, and those will fill in the wrong fields
19:32 <n54> hah I didn't think of that.. perhaps a problem?
19:32 <wrtlprnft> no, it's not
19:33 <Self_Destructo> does anyone here remeber deja_vu's website?
19:33 <wrtlprnft> the error it throws says that this can be a reason and advises people to fill in their name and password manually one time for their password manager to adapt
19:33 <n54> ah ok
19:34 <wrtlprnft> deja_vu: std::cerr << deja_vu->website << std::endl;
19:34 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:34 <Self_Destructo> ...
19:34 <wrtlprnft> > Login/registration failed. Please do not edit the two additional fields. If you use a password manager, please fill out the form manually one time to make it learn the new fields. Thanks.
19:34 <wrtlprnft> that's what it says if you do fill them out
19:46 * Lucifer_arma notes that security by obscurity has secured millions of Windows computers the world over
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: been meaning to ask you, where'd you get your website hosted?
19:47 <wrtlprnft> well, the idea is that our small wiki is not worth writing an extra spambot for
19:48 <wrtlprnft> so we'll be safe
19:48 * n54 points out that in this case it's not security by obscurity, it's security by uniqueness... well actually it has nothing to do with security at all, it's just a slightly uncommon filter
19:48 <wrtlprnft> it's a simple countermeasure, and I think it will work just fine
19:48 <n54> yup
19:51 <GodTodd> Luci: i went with GoDaddy
19:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr won't be happy
19:51 <n54> :D
19:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: Luke-Jr Luke-Jr
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, no, Luke-Jr won't like that
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> don't they support porn or something like that?
19:54 <GodTodd> lol
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> did you just register your domain through them, or are did you also get it physically hosted there?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> they grab domains and try to sell them
19:54 <GodTodd> they're hosting it too
19:54 <wrtlprnft> if you use their domain search chances are they'll grab the domain you were looking for
19:55 <wrtlprnft> so if you later decide you want that domain you can only get it from them
19:55 <n54> which registrars do you people like & use?
19:55 <wrtlprnft> &?
19:56 <n54> you didn't see that character? the and-sign?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> wrtlprnft.de is hosted by some provider in germany (didn't use their domain search, but http://denic.de/ ) and wrtlprnft.ath.cx is free anyways
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> I use no-ip :)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> yes there was an & sign
19:57 <wrtlprnft> but what does it mean in this contect? &
19:57 <Lucifer_arma> I was wondering because if you wanted, I could host it for you. It's just on my cable connection, but your site's likely to be pretty low traffic for awhile
19:57 <wrtlprnft> *context
19:57 <n54> and
19:57 <n54> & i.e. ampersand always means and in normal use afaik
19:57 <wrtlprnft> > which registrars do you people like AND use
19:57 <wrtlprnft> there's a word missing in that sentence, it seems
19:58 <GodTodd> yeah...my site is going to be really low traffic til i get it to a point where it offers stuff that the general public might want
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I can't give the kind of uptime a lot of host providers give, but I make it up with features. :) You have to pay real money to get stuff I just have laying around
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I said I use no-ip
19:58 <n54> yeah heard you Lucifer :) thanks
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I USE NO-IP.ORG FOR MY DOMAIN
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> guru3 USES NO-IP.ORG FOR ARMAGETRONAD.NET
19:58 <wrtlprnft> I USE DYNDNS.ORG FOR MY DOMAIN
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, Luke-Jr uses it too
19:59 <n54> THANKS YOU ARE GREAT! :D
19:59 <Lucifer_arma> z-man uses dyndns.org for armagetron.kicks-ass.net
19:59 <wrtlprnft> and I will use it for wrtlprnft.de as soon as my contract for wrtlprnft.de expires
19:59 <Lucifer_arma> do a whois lookup on generalconsumption.org to find out who nemo uses
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr uses go-daddy for everything. Email, domain registration, pizza delivery, *everything*
20:00 <n54> hehe
20:00 <GodTodd> lol
20:00 <GodTodd> i got a year domain reg for like 6$....so it wasn't bad
20:00 * wrtlprnft waits for the microsoft domain registration service
20:04 <GodTodd> i'd HAVE to get microsoftsucksass.com if they registered my domain :D
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that one doesn't even exist yet
20:17 <Lucifer_arma> $36/year for my domain registration
20:17 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciferEatsPeopl
20:18 -!- LuciferEatsPeopl is now known as LuciEatsPeopl
20:20 <n54> #g 36 USD to NOK
20:20 <armabot> n54: 36 U.S. dollars = 217.516087 Norwegian kroner
20:21 <n54> i.e. about 3.5 packets of cigarettes :)
20:23 <LuciEatsPeopl> heh
20:23 <LuciEatsPeopl> I make enough in google ads to cover that, though
20:24 <LuciEatsPeopl> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4986688.stm
20:27 <n54> really? google pays that well? I mean no offense but your site is a small one and all that
20:28 <LuciEatsPeopl> hmmm, I have some regular, devoted readers
20:29 <n54> ok, so it's not paid out by click only by impressions?
20:29 <LuciEatsPeopl> click only
20:29 <LuciEatsPeopl> I get a check about every 1.5 years, for just over $100
20:30 -!- LuciEatsPeopl is now known as LuciEatsPeople
20:30 <n54> huh not bad
20:31 <LuciEatsPeople> hmmm, captcha doesn't work, apparently
20:33 <n54> wiki? drupal?
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> drupal
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> what a shitty captcha image
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> look at it. Go on anonymous and try to post a comment somewhere
20:37 <n54> ok hold on
20:39 <LuciEatsPeople> maybe it's better if I give it a truetype font
20:41 <n54> ah there I see it
20:41 <n54> hmm yeah try that
20:42 <n54> something vector-based at least
20:42 <LuciEatsPeople> http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/12#comment <--- fed it the Armagetron font :)
20:43 <LuciEatsPeople> I can make a better captcha than that
20:44 <n54> hmm yeah that shouldn't stop any reasonable ocr-bot
20:45 <n54> nice that the footer is sockless :D
20:47 <LuciEatsPeople> :)
20:47 <LuciEatsPeople> just wanted something in it
20:48 <LuciEatsPeople> well, instead of fooling with the captcha, I think I'm going to tear down my server in a minute
20:48 <LuciEatsPeople> lemme see if my wife's busy with it
20:50 <n54> youe wife is computer-literate? like seriously good?
20:51 <LuciEatsPeople> she's computer-literate in the sense that she can read what's on a monitor
20:51 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
20:51 <n54> oh ok :D
20:51 <GodTodd> heh....my wife programs web pages ;)
20:52 <n54> cool :)
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> for Halliburton - n54's favorite company
20:52 <n54> lol
20:53 <GodTodd> yep...for big evil halliburton :)
20:54 <n54> actually my favourite company is SAS (not the scandinavian airline but the american computer/programming company)
20:55 <n54> purely for their management policies/ideas
20:57 <GodTodd> oh yeah....saw a thing on some news show a few years ago about them
20:58 <n54> yeah they occasionally pop up in business/management-related news etc. I've seen a few stories on them over the years
20:59 <GodTodd> yeah...they're still considered one of the best employers there is
21:00 <n54> yup
21:01 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: what files contain the code for maps?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> gParser.cpp/gParser.h
21:03 <Self_Destructo> ok, ty
21:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["I quit."]
21:10 <n54> here's their site btw; http://sas.com/
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> SAS, the guys that used to make the C compiler for the Amiga? The old lattice compiler?
21:11 <n54> hmm not sure if they're the same as I've never heard of that c compiler before
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they're the same. I've checked 'em out before. :)
21:12 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.170.150] has joined #armagetron
21:12 <n54> hmm found info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_C
21:12 <GodTodd> yeah...they bought Lattice
21:12 <GodTodd> in 86
21:13 <GodTodd> same year the norwegian subsidiary opened
21:14 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: but I'd suggest you don't really use the syntax that's used there, all those myxml functions
21:15 <wrtlprnft> they're mostly replaced by tXmlParser::node (on which you can find examples in cCockpit.cpp, cWidgetBase.cpp, rRotation.cpp and tXmlParser.cpp)
21:15 <wrtlprnft> they
21:15 <wrtlprnft> 'll deal with all the xmlChar * stuff for you and provide an interface with tStrings
21:16 <n54> huh I see wikipedia says 87 while sas says 86
21:18 <n54> anyway they're an inspiration in "things done right" imho
21:22 <wrtlprnft> logrotate still didn't rotate my logs :(
21:22 <wrtlprnft> looks like it's really waiting a week
21:23 <n54> hmm
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> hey, what's the command to add services to gentoo's startup?
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, how do I manuall start X in gentoo? :)
21:24 <n54> not the usual way?
21:24 <wrtlprnft> rc-update
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> usual way for lucifer = service xdm start :)
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> (mandriva specific)
21:24 <wrtlprnft> rc-update add xdm default
21:25 <wrtlprnft> that makes xdm start on bootup
21:25 <n54> startx
21:25 <n54> right?
21:25 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:25 <wrtlprnft> or /etc/init.d/xdm start
21:25 <wrtlprnft> and if you wanna use kdm change /etc/rc.conf
21:25 <n54> unless gentoo is very weird I guess
21:26 <wrtlprnft> startx works, so does xinit and just X
21:26 <wrtlprnft> but it has to be configured right, which it isn't by default
21:27 <wrtlprnft> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml#doc_chap3
21:27 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 <wrtlprnft> i see Lucifer_arma is restarting :D
21:27 <n54> oh noes armabot has died! :S
21:28 <wrtlprnft> or crashing, whatever
21:28 <wrtlprnft> and noone looked how long the logs were :(
21:28 <n54> hmm wonder if he saw any of our replies
21:28 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma's IRC client is not on the server i think
21:28 <n54> ok
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's on my laptop
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> er, I'm on my laptop
21:29 <n54> :)
21:29 <wrtlprnft> well
21:29 <wrtlprnft> if your irc client is on your laptop and you're chatting with in i assume you're on your laptop too
21:30 <wrtlprnft> *chatting with IT
21:30 * n54 ain't no "it"
21:30 <n54> ;P
21:30 <wrtlprnft> *chatting USING IT
21:30 <n54> pervert! :o
21:30 <wrtlprnft> O_o
21:30 <n54> lol
21:31 <n54> sorry --I'm just being silly :)
21:31 * wrtlprnft is getting used to it
21:31 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:31 <n54> :D
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> no /dev/mouse device
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
21:31 <wrtlprnft> err
21:32 <wrtlprnft> yes, that always happens to me
21:32 <wrtlprnft> sec
21:32 <wrtlprnft> Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
21:32 <wrtlprnft> use that line instead of whatever device is there
21:33 <wrtlprnft> Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
21:33 <wrtlprnft> use that option too if it isn't there or you won't be able to use your scroll wheel
21:33 <wrtlprnft> Option "ZAxisMapping" "5 4"
21:34 <wrtlprnft> and use that if you want to drive whoever is trying to use the scroll wheel crazy
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that would be my wife
21:34 <wrtlprnft> or use other buttons...
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> except I'm not entirely sure she's discovered the scroll wheel
21:35 <wrtlprnft> "1 3" would map the scroll wheel to the left and right mouse buttons
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> where's the part that says "do this to start x on boot"
21:37 <wrtlprnft> nowhere, it's assumed to be known
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> just adding xdm is supposed to work? is that it?
21:38 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:38 <wrtlprnft> try /etc/init.d/xdm start first
21:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
21:38 <ghableska> hello
21:38 <wrtlprnft> if that works you can use rc-update to make it start by itself
21:38 <wrtlprnft> hi there
21:39 <n54> hi ghableska
21:40 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft, n54
21:41 * wrtlprnft is tempted to set his system clock a week forward to see if the log rotation works
21:41 <wrtlprnft> but better not, it would terribly mess things up i guess
21:42 <wrtlprnft> hmm, or i could make it run super-fast :D
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's very nice, this kde thing
21:46 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:47 <n54> lol wrtlprnft :)
21:47 <n54> Lucifer_arma: which hde thing?
21:47 <n54> kde*
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> This thing called KDE
21:48 * n54 notices ghab parts rather than quits
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> #translate "this KDE thing" no
21:48 <n54> oh ok :P :)
21:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: bad luck your bot is down :P
21:48 <wrtlprnft> emerge supybot
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> haha
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> ummm.......
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I forgot to emerge sshd
21:48 <wrtlprnft> err
21:48 * Lucifer_arma smacks his forehead
21:48 <wrtlprnft> it's there automatically
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> that's, um, one thing I really need
21:48 <wrtlprnft> /etc/init.d/sshd start
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> just doesn't start automatically?
21:49 <wrtlprnft> rc-update add sshd default
21:49 <wrtlprnft> no, why should it?
21:49 <wrtlprnft> it would just be a possible security hole if you don't use it
21:51 <wrtlprnft> the nice thing about gentoo is that dealing with runlevels is really easy
21:51 <wrtlprnft> i remember from knoppix times dealing with /etc/rc5.d/S20apache blah-blubb...
21:51 <wrtlprnft> brr
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you're right, it's there
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> now I've plugged in a network cable, and we'll see how it goes
21:53 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:53 <SD|away> cya all
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> by SD|away
21:53 <wrtlprnft> cya
21:53 <wrtlprnft> maybe you wanna do a /etc/init.d/net.eth0 start as well then
21:53 <wrtlprnft> if you just plugged in the cable
21:54 <wrtlprnft> or restart
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> @ WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! @
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
21:54 <wrtlprnft> well
21:54 <wrtlprnft> ignore that, it indeed changed
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:54 <wrtlprnft> you could copy your old key over
21:54 <wrtlprnft> s/key/certificate
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> this is a beautiful bash prompt
21:55 <wrtlprnft> :)
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's all colorful and stuff
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
21:55 <wrtlprnft> my zsh prompt is more beautiful methinks
21:55 <wrtlprnft> but colored prompts are really useful
21:55 <wrtlprnft> way easier to see where the output of the command you just typed started if you scroll up
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/
21:56 <wrtlprnft> well
21:57 <wrtlprnft> rm /var/www/armatest/htdocs/index.htm
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> nonononono, my webroot will be somewhere else
21:57 <wrtlprnft> symlink?
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what version of Drupal gentoo has?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> or just change the apache confix
21:57 <wrtlprnft> emerge -pv drupal
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> how do I find out the version of a package available?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> -p == --pretend, -v == --verbose (shows available use flags)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, no 4.7
21:58 <wrtlprnft> sure there is a 4.7
21:58 <wrtlprnft> it's just considered unstable
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> ok, how do I get to it, then?
21:59 <wrtlprnft> echo "www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
21:59 <wrtlprnft> you might have to create /etc/portage first
21:59 <wrtlprnft> echo "=www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's there
21:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, scratch that
22:00 <wrtlprnft> echo "~www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
22:00 <wrtlprnft> that's best
22:00 <wrtlprnft> = only matches that specific version, ~ matches that version and minor ebuild updates
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, nothing found
22:00 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:01 <wrtlprnft> what architecture is that server?
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> x86
22:01 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:01 <wrtlprnft> what does it say?
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> do you see one? Probably I'm doing something wrong...
22:02 <wrtlprnft> see one what?
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> drupal 4.7
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "drupal" have been masked.
22:02 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.5.2 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.2 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.5 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.5.7 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/56488
22:02 <wrtlprnft> that's what i see
22:02 <wrtlprnft> did you do an emerge sync recently?
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> benedict apache2 # ls /etc/portage
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> package.keywords
22:03 <wrtlprnft> cat /etc/portage/*
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> benedict apache2 # cat /etc/portage/*
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> ~www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86
22:04 <wrtlprnft> you need to emerge sync i guess
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, haven't done an emerge sync since last time I was fooling with it :)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah, do it
22:04 <wrtlprnft> that package got added on May 5
22:05 <wrtlprnft> so portage can't know about it if you don't add it
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> any idea how easy it is to manage vhosts with gentoo? Just use apache stuff for it?
22:05 <wrtlprnft> there's a /etc/apache2/vhosts.d :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> you just add another file in there and put a <VirtualHost> directive in there
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's how kubuntu is setup now
22:06 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he emerged mysql
22:07 <wrtlprnft> try starting it
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> Updating Portage cache:
22:07 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that takes a few secs
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> a few, heh
22:07 <wrtlprnft> emerge screen once you have time to fool around with it. really handy.
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> last time it took an hour or so
22:07 <wrtlprnft> it should be faster this time
22:08 <wrtlprnft> but it's a long time since the last update, so...
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> emerge pyqt :)
22:08 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, you update all your stuff by saying emerge -uDav world
22:08 <wrtlprnft> where a and v are optional
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to hve a tendency to type that as:
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> emerge -imDav world
22:09 <wrtlprnft> -i is deprecated
22:09 * Lucifer_arma is named Dave
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> it wasn't a very funny joke
22:09 <wrtlprnft> -Dave might work
22:10 <wrtlprnft> but that will re- emerge everything you have
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> I just want to be able to update apache and kde and a few minor things without having to install another distribution
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> if I can have that, I'm happy
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that's possible
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'd have left it running Mandriva 10.1 if I could've done that :)
22:11 <wrtlprnft> you should do it regulary, though
22:11 <wrtlprnft> I made the experience that updates get hard if you don't update for a month or so
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> is it worth having it in a cronjob?
22:11 <wrtlprnft> better not
22:12 <wrtlprnft> you can put emerge sync into a cronjob
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wake up one morning with a bad server and a test, which one do I do? ;)
22:12 <wrtlprnft> but for the updating itself you'd better check
22:12 <wrtlprnft> some things like updating mysql require you to do some things manually
22:12 <wrtlprnft> like converting the database
22:13 <wrtlprnft> generally you should be careful if it wants to update important services, baselayout, or the kernel
22:13 <wrtlprnft> and run etc-update before you reboot
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> dammit, it's supposed to be saving me work, not making more
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:14 <wrtlprnft> it's not really lots of work
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> I know, I don't have any idea how it compares until I just do it for awhile
22:15 <wrtlprnft> usually it all goes straight
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but at first it's a pain compared to apt and friends
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> >>> Updating Portage cache: 50%
22:17 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> seems to be stuck there
22:17 <wrtlprnft> for me it has a tendency to be really slow between 50 and 60
22:17 * n54 keeps his mouth shut :)
22:17 <wrtlprnft> it goes up to 50 really fast, then is really slow and at some point around 60 speeds up again
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> he's quiet for half an hour, then speaks up just to tell he's going to be quiet for more
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> can't understand them damn Vikings sometimes, you know?
22:17 <n54> hehe :D
22:17 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> well I'm a go grab a smoke, then
22:18 <n54> hey I though you quit!
22:18 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:18 <wrtlprnft> <insert comment here>
22:18 * n54 is seriously addicted to nicotine
22:20 <wrtlprnft> wth do i have 1.55 seconds of lag here?
22:21 <n54> which freenode server are you connectd to+
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!- channels : #armagetron
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!- server : kornbluth.freenode.net [Frankfurt, DE, EU]
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!- : is identified to services
22:21 <wrtlprnft> why a server in germany now? don't they have some over here?
22:22 <n54> yeah weird, but it explains the lag
22:22 <wrtlprnft> now it's .2 again
22:22 <n54> I guess a few business might start increasing their bandwidth usage around now
22:22 <n54> here in europe that is
22:22 <wrtlprnft> uh
22:23 <wrtlprnft> at 3AM?
22:23 <n54> I've sometimes notices lag "shuddering" a bit in the early morning when I used to play armagetron --- it's 0525 ;)
22:23 <n54> noticed*
22:24 <wrtlprnft> might be 5:25 at your place, but it's 3:23 in Germany
22:24 <wrtlprnft> and that's where the server is
22:24 <n54> same timezone so it shouldn't be
22:24 <wrtlprnft> #g 22+7-24
22:24 <wrtlprnft> bah
22:24 <wrtlprnft> argh
22:24 <n54> http://www.worldtimezone.com/index24.html
22:24 <n54> :)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> ok, it is 5PM
22:25 <n54> timebattle wrtlprnft vs. n54: 1 - 1 :D
22:25 <wrtlprnft> i just kinda translated 10PM to 20:00 ;)
22:25 <n54> :)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> then added 4
22:26 <n54> pm is teh eval :P
22:26 <wrtlprnft> so i got to 24:00/12AM
22:26 <wrtlprnft> and then added the remaining 3 :D
22:26 <n54> yeah it's easy to slip up on that
22:26 <n54> :)
22:26 <wrtlprnft> i know, but everyone here uses it, so i have my clock set to it :(
22:27 <wrtlprnft> I still love the clock in my kicker bar tho
22:27 <wrtlprnft> right now it says Twenty five past ten
22:28 <n54> took me years to remember which part of the day am and pm specified :S
22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm... i just remember AM for "Am Morgen" which is German for "in the morning" :D
22:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, am i still here?
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> sure it's not 5am in germany?
22:31 <wrtlprnft> it is 5:30 in germany
22:31 <wrtlprnft> as i said, i'm just too stupid for timezones ;)
22:31 <wrtlprnft> 254 seconds of lag it says now
22:32 <GodTodd> nope...it's 5:30 am ;)
--- Log closed Tue May 16 22:32:22 2006
--- Log opened Tue May 16 22:33:45 2006
22:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
22:34 * wrtlprnft kicks his provider
22:34 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
22:34 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
22:34 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 48 secs
22:34 <n54> yeah, probably for the best Lucifer
22:34 <wrtlprnft> uh, err, what was the last thing i said (and you got)?
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> um, you said it was like 8pm in germany or something
22:35 <GodTodd> <wrtlprnft> i know, but everyone here uses it, so i have my clock set to it :(
22:35 <wrtlprnft> o_o
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:27 <wrtlprnft> I still love the clock in my kicker bar tho
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:27 <wrtlprnft> right now it says Twenty five past ten
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm... i just remember AM for "Am Morgen" which is German for "in the morning" :D
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, am i still here?
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> it is 5:30 in germany
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> as i said, i'm just too stupid for timezones ;)
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> 254 seconds of lag it says now
22:36 <n54> oh, I didn't see any of that
22:36 <wrtlprnft> 22:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
22:36 <wrtlprnft> 22:34 * wrtlprnft kicks his provider
22:36 <wrtlprnft> that's it then
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> Total size of downloads: 295,263 kB
22:36 <wrtlprnft> what's that big?
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> emerge -uDav world
22:37 <wrtlprnft> well, there are sizes next to the packages as well
22:37 <wrtlprnft> one of them must be huge
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> I guess this calls for a few rounds of armagetronad
22:37 <wrtlprnft> while downloading?
22:37 <wrtlprnft> good luck
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> I expect it'll spend most of it's time compiling, heh
22:37 <wrtlprnft> true
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's my slow computer, after all
22:38 * Lucifer_arma starts armagetron
22:38 <wrtlprnft> bah 800MHz != slow
22:38 * Lucifer_arma is in sumo if anyone wants to join
23:29 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:29 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
23:29 <wrtlprnft> all of IRC exept you played :D
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> man n54, you'd love that sumo server
23:30 <wrtlprnft> �$!*#
23:30 <wrtlprnft> i'm handling the kernel myself, portage! no need to mess me up py "updating" it!
23:30 <n54> how so?
23:30 <wrtlprnft> well, kernel.org
23:34 <n54> I meant in relation to the sumo server
23:38 <guru3> don't go shouting about domains at 2am
23:39 <guru3> off to breakfast & exam
23:39 <guru3> cu guys
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> heh, have fun guru3
23:40 <n54> lol & hi guru3 :)
23:40 <n54> best of luck too, hope it goes well
Log from 2006-05-17:
--- Day changed Wed May 17 2006
00:29 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BA6BC.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
00:29 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B93E5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:37 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> is it safe to abort an emerge?
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> um, when it's updating with 140 packages, and only on #14?
00:56 <z-man-home> if you do it during the build phase, yes
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> so it builds them all first, then installs them?
00:57 <z-man-home> No, for every package, it unpacks the source, builds into a temporary directory, installs into a temporary directory, then copies the contents of that into your file system
00:57 <z-man-home> only the last bit could be dangerous to abort
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's on #17, which is glibc. Does that means it's already installed up to #16? Which includes gcc...
00:58 <z-man-home> IIRC, there are lots of >>>> on the screen during that phase
00:58 <z-man-home> yes
01:10 <Luke-Jr> merging stage is shortest ;)
01:10 <Luke-Jr> I think it changes the window title too
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, 140 packages is going to take a long time
01:10 <Luke-Jr> FWIW, no-ip SUCKS for any real DNS
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> so I wanted to cut it off and see if I could get the webserver back up right now and then do the update again, with a working webserver and the thing sitting on my machine
01:11 <Luke-Jr> I host my own DNS, thank you :)
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> ? haven't had any problems with them....
01:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you haven't tried to do much then
01:12 <Luke-Jr> like, for example, fourth-level domains, SRV records, etc...
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, not really.
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm, do you really want to use a dynamic ip dns service if you have that much stuff to do?
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I think my calc teacher fudged some numbers, 'cause I don't see it
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> he says I got a 77 on the final (much lower than I expected), but still pulled an A for the class
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> no way, the numbers don't hold up.
01:13 <Luke-Jr> If you really want to use a dynamic DNS service, you really don't want to pay for it
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> not that I"m complaining, mind you.
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> why not?
01:13 <Luke-Jr> no point
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> 'splain
01:13 <Luke-Jr> why pay for a SLD when you're only resolving a single machine?
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> because that single machine changes ip addresses every now and again
01:14 <Luke-Jr> it can have a 3LD
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> 3LD?
01:14 <Luke-Jr> third-level
01:14 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know much about dns
01:14 <Luke-Jr> foo.bar.net
01:14 <Luke-Jr> or foobar.no-ip.com
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> right. but I want it to be www.davefancella.com
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> and no-ip doesn't offer that one without money
01:15 <Luke-Jr> but if you're going to get that, might as well set it up for all your systems
01:15 <Luke-Jr> computername.davefancella.com
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> right, my one system :)
01:15 <Luke-Jr> you have only one computer? O.o
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> I have several, but only 2 that are currently in use, and one of those is frequently mobile
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> the others are more spare parts than computer
01:16 <Luke-Jr> mobile doesn't stop it from having an IP =p
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> when it's at home, it shares an IP. Um, on the internet anyway. nat here, of course
01:17 <Luke-Jr> that's fixable
01:17 <Luke-Jr> with IPv6
01:17 <Luke-Jr> yay for having a /64 (or was it a /128?)
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> and the ISP in my area that offers IPv6 is ...?
01:18 <Luke-Jr> /exec -o ping 192.88.99.1 -c 1
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> how do I list unmounted partitions?
01:19 <Luke-Jr> compare /etc/fstab and /etc/mtab
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm, I want to find partitions that aren't listed in fstab
01:20 <Luke-Jr> ...
01:20 <Luke-Jr> fdisk?
01:22 <n54> or cfdisk if one likes curses :)
01:22 <Luke-Jr> n54: I assume 'list' means non-UI
01:23 <n54> iirc cfdisk is ok with being run in a terminal
01:23 <Luke-Jr> UI doesn't mean GUI
01:24 <Luke-Jr> cfdisk isn't going to handle stdio communication with a script or program well
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> found the partition I was looking for
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> when I made this fstab, I left out the mandriva partitions, forgetting I needed to copy some of them over more or less unchanged
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> so, after I aborted that big emerge update thingee, if I emerge another package, will it attempt to pick up that big emerge all over again?
01:27 <Luke-Jr> no
01:27 <Luke-Jr> it will forget it
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> damn. I did this so half-assed. I didn't dump the databases, so now I have nothing to bring in.
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> last question about that emerge. :)
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> if I reboot, is my system likely to be broken?
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> I guess technically that was my first question and is already answered, and there's only one way to find out anyway
01:30 * Lucifer_arma turns it off and puts it back in the bedroom
01:31 <Luke-Jr> er
01:31 <Luke-Jr> why would your system be broken?
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> because I did emerge -uDav world and stopped it?
01:31 <Luke-Jr> so?
01:32 <Luke-Jr> ...
01:32 <z-man-home> Essential libraries may have already been updated to incompatible versions and the non-updated programs still rely on the old, now removed version.
01:32 <z-man-home> That can happen and your system is broken.
01:33 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: essential libraries are binary compatible
01:33 <z-man-home> Theory :)
01:33 <Luke-Jr> practice too
01:33 <Luke-Jr> unless you depend on DirectFB
01:33 <Luke-Jr> which sucks for compatibility
01:33 <z-man-home> not if you change our USE flags
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> server
01:33 <Luke-Jr> even if you do
01:33 <Luke-Jr> in most cases
01:34 <z-man-home> most :)
01:34 <Luke-Jr> obviously changing from linux to bsd will break stuff
01:34 <z-man-home> I *almost* had to do a reinstall when I switched to USE=minimal on my old laptop
01:34 <z-man-home> because not even the basic programs like ln, ls, cp were working any more
01:35 <z-man-home> If I hadn't had a still running sshd, I'd have been screwed
01:35 <Luke-Jr> binpkg
01:35 <z-man-home> emerge didn't work any more, either
01:35 <z-man-home> NOTHING worked
01:36 <Luke-Jr> binary packages don't need emerge
01:36 <Luke-Jr> just boot a LiveCD and extract them over your root
01:36 <z-man-home> well, mr superbrain, that whould be a reinstall, right?
01:36 <Luke-Jr> no
01:36 <Luke-Jr> you just extract the package you want to revert
01:36 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:37 <z-man-home> the affected files were in baselayout
01:37 <Luke-Jr> baselayout doesn't, AFAIK, contain any libs...
01:37 <z-man-home> all over the place, really
01:37 <z-man-home> Besides, my laptop can't boot from CD
01:37 <Luke-Jr> no, no... you revert the upgrade that broke crap
01:37 <Luke-Jr> that's dumb =p
01:38 <z-man-home> The installation had to be done from another PC, transplanting the HD
01:38 <Luke-Jr> eww
01:38 <z-man-home> see? :) I'd have been screwed without the running sshd that allowed me to scp files from a working installation over :)
01:38 <Luke-Jr> good thing you had a working one
01:39 <Luke-Jr> all my machines are different architectures
01:39 <Luke-Jr> one x86, one amd64, one ppc, and one arm
01:39 <Luke-Jr> oh, and one mips
01:39 <Luke-Jr> if you count the WRT54G
01:40 <Luke-Jr> Microsoft mice are evil
01:40 <Luke-Jr> they decide to turn off randomly
01:40 * z-man-home is amazed by the sudden toic change
01:40 <Luke-Jr> with that, I will say goodnight and go sleep
01:40 <z-man-home> night
01:41 <z-man-home> Probably, they only do that in Linux :)
01:41 <Luke-Jr> anything I do still can amaze you? wow
01:41 <Luke-Jr> dunno, supposedly it's the wire
01:41 <z-man-home> not really :)
01:41 <Luke-Jr> maybe Windoze has a workaround for buggy wires
01:41 <Luke-Jr> too bad my wife stole my wireless non-M$ mouse
01:41 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:42 <Luke-Jr> ok, I'm really gone now
01:42 <Luke-Jr> bye
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> my microsoft mouse is the greatest thing in the world
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's a teeny tiny thing, for laptops. wireless, with a little clip-on place on the bottom of the mouse for the usb wireless plug thingeemabobber
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's awesome
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> c'mon armabot, get in here
01:44 <n54> hmm I wish I had a normal keyboard but with an inbuilt laptop-mouse pointer in the middle, those that look like pencil-end rubbers --heck I'd like two :D
01:45 <z-man-home> LO-GI-TECH! LO-GI-TECH! :)
01:45 <n54> hehe :D they have it?
01:46 <z-man-home> n54: I think there are keyboards that have that, not sure where to get them
01:46 <z-man-home> no, I was just countering Lucifer_arma's Microsoft praise :)
01:46 <n54> yeah odds are you're right (I haven't really searched for it)
01:46 <n54> oh ok lol :)
01:46 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:46 <z-man-home> I also have a MS mouse, but it's the serial one that came with my very first computer
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> yay, armabot's here
01:47 <n54> #whoami
01:47 <z-man-home> And a MS joystick, which I'm happy with, a MS gamepad that sucks, and a Saitek Force Feedback wheel essentially build like a MS one which doesn't have any drivers for XP and 2000, grrr
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> I saw a neat keyboard at an auto parts store awhile back. Between the keypad and the, umm, the rest, there was one of those touchpads like laptops have
01:48 <n54> I prefer the "mini-rubber-joystick" devices over touchpads
01:49 <n54> but still a keyboard like that if wireless + a comfy office chair would be heaven! :D
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> armabot's here, why the hell can't I ssh into the machine now?
01:50 <n54> hmm armabot doesn't seem awake to me...
01:50 <n54> #echo hello
01:52 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> machine stalled while booting
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> stopped at "Loading usb printer"
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> um, booting into Mandriva
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:55 <n54> hope it works out, although it sounds like it might be a tedious process
01:55 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> nah, it was just stupid stuff. I plugged the usb cable into a different plug.
01:55 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> That really annoys me.
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I don't recognize you.
01:56 <n54> ok time to reidentify :)
01:56 <z-man-home> That message could me a bit more lifelike. "I don't know you. Who are you? Get away from me! AAAAARGH!"
01:57 <n54> lol :D
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> don't get too comfortable, I'm bootig it back into gentoo in a little bit
01:58 <n54> ah ok np of course
01:58 <z-man-home> Bah, it's raining, and the pigeons left some presents on my bicycle
01:58 <n54> :|
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> fucking pigeons
01:59 <z-man-home> Good thing it has a raincover :)
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> not worth eating, not worth living, what do you do with them?
01:59 <z-man-home> apparently, some idiots feed them
01:59 <n54> some eat them
02:00 <Lucifer_arma> vi dump.sql wasn't a good idea
02:00 <n54> hehe there was a big story about some greek restaurants in london making ample use of pigeons a few years back :S
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> it'd take like 5 of the little things to get full!?!
02:01 <n54> well probably but there's no shortage
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> eventually we'd run out
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if they could be bred to get as big as chickens?
02:03 <z-man-home> I'd certainly want to keep those away from my bike, then
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> haha
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, why is armabot still here?
02:03 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> go away, armabot
02:04 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:04 <n54> lol
02:04 <n54> @the super-pigeons I mean :)
02:05 <z-man-home> I saw a documentary that showed in detail how chicken are handled before we eat them....
02:05 <z-man-home> the part where they're beheaded by rotating blades was NOT the worst bit.
02:06 <n54> according to some national geographic program I saw a while ago we'll have our hands full with the coming boar infestation anyway so the pigeons are safe ;)
02:06 <z-man-home> before that, the'yre essentially handled like screws.
02:06 <n54> yeah it's not pretty
02:06 <z-man-home> they're tossed around, put on conveyor belts
02:07 <z-man-home> especially the little ones
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm...... that's kind of a side effect of having to mass produce the things
02:07 <z-man-home> treated like fucking things
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> if they could just grow 20-30 pound chickens, maybe they could be slaughtered with more, um, honor?
02:07 <z-man-home> yes, it's mass production only
02:07 <z-man-home> yes, they can
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> those the chickens that are all pumped up with hormones and crap anyway, right?
02:08 <z-man-home> well, they're still slaughtered, but at least, they have a good chicken life before that
02:08 <n54> depends, real good feed can produce the same results
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> you know, the ones that'll cause 1st-graders to start puberty....
02:08 <z-man-home> right, those chickens
02:08 <n54> well better actually
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> alright, well, now I've got the database into the gentoo installation
02:09 <z-man-home> but it takes more time and effort, right? And we only see the price tag in the supermarket
02:10 <z-man-home> so we make up excuses to buy the cheap stuff
02:10 <n54> yes, would be nice if it was different, perhaps some day it will be - synthetic meat and all that
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, that's an old dump. erg
02:11 <z-man-home> like the ubiquious story of the organic farmer that has his fields directly next to the highway, well, how organic can that be?
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> um, I'll give you that we periodically buy the cheap stuff, but for the most part, we stick to the "free range" stuff, which is treated quite a bit differently
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's a little more money per pound, but my first grader hasn't started puberty yet :)
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> same with milk, eggs, um, beef, etc.
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it's not utopia, but it is the best stuff available right now
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> trying again with the right db dump file
02:13 <n54> these thing are in general better in norway, stricter, at least that's the impression I have compared to the rest of europe, we have fewer super-farms primarily due to the landscape
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> how much food do you import?
02:14 <n54> not that much really, but some of course
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> I hear they treat chickens really well in France :)
02:14 <n54> mostly out-of-season greens and sych though
02:14 <n54> yeah terrible stuff, force-feeding geese and such
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh, meat's never really out of season, I suppose
02:15 <n54> nope not really
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that a boar infestation would be all that bad. I hear boar tastes really good
02:15 <z-man-home> We (Sibila and me)'re mostly vegan. Some eggs for me sometimes, some Milk, some cheese. What we can, we buy organic.
02:15 <z-man-home> Of course, we don't have children that need to grow up :)
02:16 <n54> hehe well texas was one of the areas in the us featured so... ;) but ti's actually illegal to shoot them or something like that - at least for the present time
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> problem with organic, of course, is that to be competitive, organic farmers are kinda stuck with genetically modified foods
02:16 <z-man-home> not here :)
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh. Maybe y'all don't have the huge corporate farms yet?
02:16 <n54> I absolutely have an aim of eating more vegetables than I currently do
02:16 <z-man-home> Europe is still very sceptical about gentech
02:17 * n54 really dislikes gm foods
02:17 <z-man-home> and one of the conditions to be considered organic is gentech-freeness
02:17 <n54> the science of the "safety" of gm just doesn't hold up
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have a rule of portions my wife tries to ignore but gets bitched at for it.
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> for my whole family, for a dinner, it's:
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> 1 pound of meat, 2 pounds of starch (potatoes, rice, whatever), and 1 pound of vegetables
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> with 4 pounds of food, I can feed them all nicely.
02:18 <n54> well you know rules like that can't fit all
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> nah, it just works out that way. I also tell her if she goes thin on the meat to balance with vegetables, because if she balances with the starch, we'll all get fat.
02:18 <n54> :)
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'll probably have to increase it to 5 pounds total at some point in the next few years
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm hoping to only have to increase the vegetables, though.
02:19 <n54> well you have kids
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I like meat, don't get me wrong. But I like vegetables too, and they're damn cheap by comparison.
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> my kids eat a lot of vegetables.
02:20 <n54> I absolutely love meat, but vegetables too, starch etc. doesn't sit well with me but then again I'm ill and it explains some of why it doesn't
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> I swear, if it weren't for all the idiot adults that freak out when they see a small kid eating vegetables, my kids wouldn't have any hangups on the matter
02:20 <n54> freak out?
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> "She eats lettuce?!?"
02:21 <z-man-home> what's wrong with vegetables?
02:21 <n54> why the hell is that a problem to them?
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh dear, are you sure you'll like <insert vegetable here>?"
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> beats me.
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> Actually, I know why.
02:21 <z-man-home> ah, stereotypes :)
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> Because most Americans are lazy.
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> And they let their kids walk all over them.
02:22 <n54> well that goes in most cultures afaik, at least most western ones
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> we figured it was pretty simple, easy to figure out. If the kid's hungry, he'll eat. Right? Simple.
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> And we laid down the rule, if you want seconds, you have to finish your firsts. Simple, right?
02:22 <n54> yup
02:22 <n54> same as I was taught
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> I won't say we never cave, but like I say, my kids eat most vegetables, and they like them.
02:22 <n54> in addition to "never take more than you can finish"
02:23 <n54> yeah of course one can be lenient at times, that's natural, but it's good to hae a "base" so to speak
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> we don't push that last one, I've gotten really good at figuring out proportions that I rarely put too much or too little on their plates.
02:23 <n54> anyway I don't have children so I might be a big hypocrite right now ^_^
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> heh, tonight I made that same ol' chicken, spinach, and carrot stir fry I make at least once a week.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> my kids love it so much, they clean their plates and want seconds not because they're hungry, but because they love it so much.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> spinach! carrots! Stuff most parents around here are too chickenshit to feed their kids!
02:26 * Lucifer_arma rants off in the corner
02:26 <n54> probably means your not destroying/removing the vitamins & other good stuff when preparing it - especially the greens
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> man, they get so wired after it, too. :)
02:26 <n54> I'm kind of weird I prefer eating only vegetables when I eat vegetables
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the spinach is very lightly cooked. Enough to break down the, uhhh, walls?, in the right places, but not too much.
02:26 <n54> cell walls
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> maybe. Whatever it is, it's the reason raw spinach isn't supposed to be very good for you, but cooked spinach is, provided you don't overcook it.
02:27 <n54> "cellulose walls" is probably a more correct way of putting it
02:29 <n54> my favourite vegetable is chinese cabbage, what are yours z-man & lucifer?
02:29 <z-man-home> broccoli
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> damn, why isn't php working on my new webserver?
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> steamed broccoli is pretty high on my list
02:30 <n54> yeah broccoli is nice too
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> I don't really have favorite foods, I don't think.
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> I have this hobby, cooking, that I really love to pursue. :) eating, well, it follows from cooking but I try to be sensible.
02:31 <z-man-home> me neither, but I don't know the English names of the other stuff I eat :)
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> sauerkraut = shit :)
02:31 <z-man-home> bua, yes
02:31 <z-man-home> except in a sallad
02:31 <n54> I like almost all my vegetables raw so cooking skills luckily isn't that much of an issue for me :D
02:32 * n54 likes sauerkraut if it is what I think it is
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> only way I've ever seen sauerkraut was steamed and tossed on sausage, like on a bun
02:32 <n54> "surk?l" in norwegian
02:32 <z-man-home> yeah, and the saussage usually is awful
02:32 <n54> ok well it fits fatty meat dishes best
02:32 <z-man-home> that's bavarian food, it's quite... heavy
02:33 <n54> yup logging food we call that up here :)
02:33 <n54> or "loggers food"
02:34 <z-man-home> Beans rule, too. Beans + rice = yum
02:34 <z-man-home> the little round beans, not the long green ones
02:34 <z-man-home> umm, you probably don't call the long green ones beans
02:34 <n54> I've heard it said that sauerkraut/surk?l is actually meant to be superhealthy and good for cleaning the system of various nasty stuff
02:35 <n54> peas perhaps?
02:35 <z-man-home> Yes, the long green beans sort of look like the things peas come in
02:35 <n54> ooh
02:35 <z-man-home> but they don't have peas in them
02:36 <z-man-home> they're just long and green and taste like, umm, long green pieces of plant?
02:36 <n54> heh you just reminded me of how good raw seat peas are, with their outer shell too, not just the peas
02:36 <n54> sweat*
02:36 <n54> hmm not sure what you're thinking of though
02:37 <n54> what's the german name?
02:37 <z-man-home> bohnen
02:37 <z-man-home> the same name we give beans
02:37 * z-man-home shrugs
02:37 <n54> oh.. perhaps they're just beans in english too then
02:37 <n54> yeah "b?nner" in norwegian
02:38 <z-man-home> http://www.wdr.de/tv/service/essen/inhalt/20040924/bilder/02.jpg
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> long green ones = string beans, or green beans
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> now how the hell do I get php to use mysql? :(
02:39 <z-man-home> sometimes, you have to set the right use flags
02:39 <z-man-home> like USE=php mysql
02:39 <z-man-home> to make php compile with mysql support
02:40 <z-man-home> and mysql compile with php bindings
02:40 <z-man-home> One of them usually suffices, and documentation on these parts is usually poor
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> so when I do emerge -pv dev-lang/php, I get a list of + and - stuff
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> does + mean it will compile with that thing built in?
02:45 <z-man-home> I never used that, mom
02:45 <z-man-home> the -v part, I mean
02:46 <z-man-home> I think, yes, those are the optional bits
02:47 <z-man-home> so if it says +mysql, you're home
02:47 <z-man-home> for me, it says -mysql
02:47 <z-man-home> only +sqllite
02:47 <z-man-home> err +sqlite
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, it says +mysql
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's dev-lang/php
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> which is php5, which hopefully drupal runs under
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> and mediawiki, for that matter
02:49 <z-man-home> then mysql support should be there
02:50 <z-man-home> you activated mysql globally in make.conf?
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> I couldn't get it to tell me about the php4 that was previously installed
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> so I unmerged the old php stuff and am emerging php5 now
02:50 <z-man-home> ah, it's only telling you what it was going to do if you really install, it does not tell you what IS already installed
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't activate mysql globally in make.conf
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, -pv = pretend, verbose
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> configure.in:141: warning: AC_PROG_LEX invoked multiple times
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> autoconf/programs.m4:438: AC_DECL_YYTEXT is expanded from...
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> acinclude.m4:2056: PHP_PROG_LEX is expanded from...
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> configure.in:141: the top level
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> that stuff irritates me
02:52 <z-man-home> you can edit the corresponding files
02:52 <z-man-home> It's not that much work, I did it
02:52 <z-man-home> emerge -pv "<dev-lang/php-5.0"
02:53 <z-man-home> gives you info about php 4.x
02:53 <z-man-home> and of course, without the -p, you could install it
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> +mysql
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm......... something ain't right
02:54 <z-man-home> Dunno. My Trac test setup uses sqlite, never touched mysql
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, I emerged php originally very early in the installation, maybe I should have done it later I guess
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> seems like it shouldn't matter, though
02:56 <z-man-home> yes, if it depens on mysql, it would have been installed afterwards
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> -I/usr/include/mysql
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> it at least looks like it's doing it right
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll finally get the math stuff working for mediawiki
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke while this is going on. I'm little too happy about maybe *might* having my "new" server running
03:00 <n54> :)
03:03 <deja_vu_> *yaaawn*
03:03 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
03:04 <n54> good morning deja_vu :)
03:04 <deja_vu> :]
03:04 <deja_vu> hey n54
03:09 * Lucifer_arma yawns
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> long day
03:09 <n54> yeah must be late in texas by now
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> 3am
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> woke up at 9am
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> ~3 hours earlier than usual
03:10 <n54> your exams are done?
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> got straight A's. :)
03:10 <n54> :)
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> er, not on the exams, but for the semester
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> so my 4 gpa is still in tact. :)
03:10 <n54> yeah got you, as final grades
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> but I swear my calc teacher had to fudge the numbers, I don't see how it could have worked out.
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if you remember, but I had determined I needed at least an 87 on the final there, and I got a 77
03:11 <n54> well teachers are supposed to ahve a certain degree of leeway in setting the final grade aren't they?
03:11 <n54> yeah but you also said it wouldn't count if it was the worst
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they do. And I wouldn't be surprised if he gave me a point or two to avoid being the one that drops my gpa
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> no, all the calc tests counted. It was two of my other classes that dropped a test
03:12 <n54> ok
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> #g (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 77)/5
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> duh
03:14 <n54> 445/5 = 89 if my mind is awake
03:14 <n54> *finds a calculator*
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> python says it's 89.0
03:15 <n54> Xcalc too
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> (.9 * (95.0 + 87.0 + 92.0 + 94.0 + 77.0)/5.0) + (.1 * 94)
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> that gives an 89.5
03:16 <n54> what was the purpose of that one?
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> assumes a 94 on the homework average, though, which I'd feel pretty weird if I got tht high on homework this time
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> it's weighted. 90% of the grade is tests, 10% is homework, with that formula.
03:17 <n54> he might have felt it just to give you a 100 score on homework & schoolwork combined so as to give you an overall A
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> he might have. Looking at it now it doesn't seem like he had to fudge too much, actually.
03:17 <n54> yup
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> one thing's for certain, I'm glad I signed up for his Calc II class next semester :)
03:18 <n54> :)
03:20 <z-man-home> finally, it stopped raining
03:20 * z-man-home wants to see if he can get to work before z-man-home times out
03:20 <n54> hehe :)
03:22 <guru3> back
03:22 <n54> hi :) test over?
03:22 <guru3> yup
03:22 <guru3> that was the last of psychology
03:22 <guru3> only chem & span to go
03:22 <guru3> hablais espanol?
03:22 <n54> :)
03:23 <n54> no senor :)
03:23 <guru3> :)
03:23 <n54> are they today too?
03:24 <guru3> no
03:24 <guru3> if they were i wouldn't be here
03:24 <guru3> chem paper 1 & 2 tomorrow
03:24 <n54> ok :)
03:24 <guru3> chem paper 3 on friday
03:24 <guru3> spanish paper 1 & 2 next tuesday
03:25 <guru3> fun fun ufn
03:25 <n54> hehe
03:25 <guru3> "fun"
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> yay, wiki's back up
03:26 <n54> :)
03:27 <guru3> grand Lucifer
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> my website's up now
03:29 <guru3> grand
03:29 <guru3> i have to know a lot of schitt for chemistry :/
03:30 <n54> hi or low level?
03:31 <guru3> hi
03:31 <guru3> gher
03:31 <n54> :S
03:31 <guru3> aye
03:31 <guru3> like 220 hours of lesson time over the alst 2 years
03:32 <guru3> and i didn't even learn how to make bombs :(
03:32 <n54> lol :D
03:33 <guru3> i did learn about like acid rain tho
03:33 <guru3> CO2 + H2O -> H2CO3
03:33 <guru3> H2CO3 -> H+ + HCO3-
03:33 <guru3> and there's your acid
03:33 <n54> :)
03:33 <guru3> of course then
03:34 <z-man-work> herhe
03:34 <guru3> SO3 + H2O -> H2SO4 -> H+ + HSO4-
03:34 <z-man-work> haha, beat the Internet!
03:34 <n54> you made it z-man :)
03:34 <guru3> and also
03:34 <guru3> NO2 + H2O -> H2NO3 -> H+ + HNO3-
03:35 <guru3> vive le acid rain!
03:35 <guru3> er i mean
03:35 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man-ftl
03:35 <guru3> acid rain is very bad!
03:35 <n54> hehe guru3
03:35 <n54> lol ftl :)
03:35 <guru3> ftl?
03:35 <n54> faster than light ;)
03:35 <guru3> obviously, i've been missing a lot of what goes on here
03:36 <n54> z-man raced the internet :)
03:36 <guru3> it's physically impossible to go faster than the speed of light
03:36 <z-man-ftl> Gave myself a head start, gotta admit that
03:36 <guru3> i've got the equation here somewhere...
03:36 <guru3> yeah
03:36 <z-man-ftl> depends on the definition of the speed of light :) You can slow light down
03:36 <guru3> u'x = (ux - v)/(1- uxv/c^2)
03:37 <guru3> gah fine
03:37 <guru3> you can go faster than the speed of light if your light isn't going in a vaccum
03:37 <z-man-ftl> right
03:37 <guru3> but if you're not careful your light will bend
03:37 <guru3> and you'll go slow
03:37 <n54> these days I saw they're "sending it in reverse" or some such as well... crazy scientists ;P j/k
03:37 <z-man-ftl> yes, but it's a cheap trick :)
03:37 <n54> :)
03:38 <z-man-ftl> a useful experiment, though
03:38 <guru3> i love how in the relative frames of reference
03:38 <guru3> the other person's clock is going slow
03:38 <guru3> cause of time contraction
03:38 <guru3> that's how them there muons get from the atmosphere to earth :)
03:38 * guru3 curses having done the relativity option in physics
03:39 <z-man-ftl> from our viewpoint :) From the viewpoint of the muons, i'ts the length contraction.
03:39 <z-man-ftl> They think they only have to travel 500m or so
03:39 <guru3> got that little y thingy there
03:39 <guru3> i forget the name of it
03:39 -!- z-man-ftl is now known as z-man
03:39 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:40 <guru3> that factor thing
03:40 <guru3> argh what's it called
03:40 <z-man> Next time, I'll include doing the dishes in the race
03:40 <n54> hehe
03:40 <guru3> the 1 / (1 - v^2/c^2)^1/2 thing
03:40 <z-man> beta, it's called
03:41 <z-man> or gamma?
03:41 <guru3> gamma
03:41 <guru3> that's it
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> I lied, my sites don't work
03:41 <n54> ooh _that_ "y-thing"
03:41 <guru3> yes that y thing
03:41 <guru3> we forgive you lucifer
03:41 <n54> third letter of the greek alphabet y-thing :)
03:41 <guru3> yeah i guess
03:42 <guru3> you'll forgive me if i say i'm not really sure...
03:42 <z-man> well, I sort of get something for the drupal bookmark
03:42 * n54 is very sure
03:42 <guru3> you know greak?
03:42 <n54> nah but I know nuclear radiation types :)
03:43 <n54> also I sometimes use greek letters for numbering
03:43 <guru3> yes that's the one
03:43 <z-man> and the wiki works, too
03:43 <z-man> haven't tried to log in, though
03:44 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
03:44 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
03:44 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: what do you think of trying to set up one of those redundant database things?
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> I think it's a great idea, whoever it was that dreamed it up
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> :)
03:45 * z-man knows database stuff is way over his head
03:45 <guru3> see how internet latency effects it
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> not right this minute, though
03:45 <guru3> doh ><
03:45 * guru3 starts looking around wildy
03:46 * n54 is half asleep and has to go to bed soon
03:46 <guru3> :o
03:47 <n54> trying to timeshift myself into the right timezone but well... :)
03:48 <guru3> :o
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> AllowOverride not allowed here <-- bullshit!
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: can you do me a favor? heh
03:51 <z-man> depends on the favor :)
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> in the test drupal, go to administration->Settings and find the box that says "clean urls" and uncheck it?
03:51 <z-man> The requested URL /admin was not found on this server.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, lemme give you a link
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=admin/settings
03:53 <z-man> disabled it
03:54 <guru3> http://www.raudat.net/~zz/tampere.png
03:54 <guru3> aparently that means that
03:54 <guru3> people in finland at new years
03:54 <guru3> like to look @ goatse Oo
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> you sure? it's still giving me clean urls. Hmmmm.........
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, you probably couldn't submit the form. ARgh!
03:56 <z-man> Yes, it's disabled, but I get only short urls, too
03:56 <z-man> but you're right, reloading the form made the thing snap back to clean url.
03:57 <guru3> fix the database manually man!
03:57 <z-man> There are some warning messages, in the body:
03:57 <z-man> <div id="message"><div class="messages error">
03:57 <z-man> <ul>
03:57 <z-man> <li>warning:
03:57 <z-man> Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output
03:57 <z-man> started at /www/home/includes/database.mysql.inc:120) in
03:57 <z-man> /www/home/includes/common.inc on line 139.</li>
03:58 <z-man> <li>The directory <em>files</em> is not writable</li>
03:58 <z-man> </ul>
03:58 <z-man> </div>
03:58 <z-man> </div>
03:58 <z-man> and on the top:
03:58 <z-man> ah, something irrelevant about latin1_swedish :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> right, fixed that for the moment
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: I already tried to fix the database manually
03:59 <guru3> :/
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> clean_url s:1:""; <-- what should it be to disable it?
04:01 <n54> lol tank @ finland & goatse
04:02 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: try "disabled"
04:02 <guru3> or false
04:02 <guru3> or
04:02 <guru3> read the source
04:02 <n54> I'M surprised _anyone_ would search for that
04:02 <guru3> to see what it checks it against
04:04 <guru3> our top search region in google
04:04 <guru3> is...
04:04 <guru3> poland!
04:04 <n54> ?
04:04 <n54> for armagetron+
04:04 <guru3> yeah
04:05 <n54> guess that means we should try to support all polish glyphs in the font at some point in time :)
04:06 <guru3> it's weird
04:06 <guru3> looks like poland turns up for a lot of stuff
04:06 <n54> I think f/oss is pretty big in poland
04:06 <n54> I'e come across a few polish distros and various stuff
04:07 <guru3> it's weird
04:07 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
04:08 <n54> hi MaZuffeR :) hehe guru3 should show you that link about finland & google he showed me :)
04:08 <MaZuffeR> hi
04:08 <guru3> http://www.raudat.net/~zz/tampere.png
04:09 <n54> we would like some sort of explanation ;) j/k
04:10 <MaZuffeR> saw that earlier
04:10 <guru3> that just cracks me up
04:10 <MaZuffeR> i'm innocent, i don't live in neither Helsinki nor Tampere ;)
04:10 <n54> hehe me too, but it really doesn't make any sense :)
04:10 <n54> hehe ok :)
04:10 <guru3> as our finnish ambassador we demand the truth!
04:11 <n54> :)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ok, rebooting into mandriva, I'll finish this another day
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> man, Fins are barbarians, everybody knows that. Aren't the Huns from around there?
04:14 <n54> nah huns are from Hungary, and Finland is probably the most rational of the nordic countries imo
04:14 <guru3> aren't huns from hungary?
04:14 <n54> yup guru3 I think so
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04:15 <n54> incidentally finnish and hungarian are the only real european languages left
04:15 <guru3> they're also impossible
04:15 <guru3> but hey, who's counting!
04:15 <n54> :)
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> armabot's back
04:15 <n54> #hello armabot :)
04:15 <armabot> Hello n54 :)
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> #hello armabot
04:16 <armabot> Hello Lucifer_arma :)
04:16 <MaZuffeR> how does finnish
04:17 <MaZuffeR> count as a european language
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's one of the two languages that just plain aren't known outside europe?
04:18 <n54> no it's one of two major languages that are from before the indo-european settlement, i.e. original european languages (might be wrong term)
04:18 <n54> some smaller ones like sami also belong to the same language group afaik
04:18 <MaZuffeR> and estonian in that case
04:18 <n54> ah yes sorry, forgot about estonian
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> Finnish is a member of the Finno-Ugric language family
04:19 <n54> and probably gaelic as well
04:19 <n54> yup
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> wikipedia rules
04:19 <guru3> Oo
04:19 <n54> :)
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> aha, original russkie language, from before the slavs got to russia
04:21 <z-man> Err, Huns as in Attila the Hun?
04:21 <n54> yeah think so z-man
04:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, those huns
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> the same ones that provided mercenary units for Rome
04:22 <z-man> They're originally from China, methinks
04:22 <z-man> or around China
04:22 * Lucifer_arma notes that those Huns were fairly widespread
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> Sure you're not htinking of Kushans?
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> The Huns were a confederation of Eurasian tribes, most likely of diverse origin with a Turkic-speaking aristocracy,
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun
04:23 <guru3> hiccups :/
04:23 <n54> *brain explodes from too much info*
04:24 <n54> details, details, we're all from africa anyway - or something like that ;)
04:24 * guru3 wipes up the mess
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> jesus, how many people came from the steppes?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> there's like one migration after another from the steppes
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> why are there so many people being born there, and then leaving?
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> is there like a person factory somewhere in there?
04:25 <n54> ever lived in the countryside Lucifer?
04:25 <n54> (that's the answer like) ;D
04:25 <guru3> n54: he lives in texas you know :P
04:25 <z-man> Migration doesn't usually work like that, Luci :)
04:25 <n54> yeah but smack dabble in the middle of a gazillion other texans :)
04:26 <guru3> and?
04:26 <guru3> texas is like one huge country side
04:26 <z-man> It's not "it sucks here, lets pack our bags, walk some thousand kilomenters, then settle there"
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I don't have any idea where I got the idea huns came from Finland
04:26 <n54> well teh countryside is different :)
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> Texas is 80% urbanized, didn't we cover this a few days ago?
04:26 <z-man> It's rather "This place is crowded, let's found a new vilage. Over the hill there, it looks nice"
04:26 <n54> yup
04:26 <guru3> you're forgetting i rarely pay a lot of attention here
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the thing is, the steppes man, aren't they like really really barren?
04:27 <n54> it's was probably at 3am or something :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> according to Jules Vernes (a frenchmen, therefore a known liar, heh heh), nobody lives on the steppes
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> except a few hardened russian criminals
04:27 <n54> nah they're lush and plentiful and very very very _very_ boring if you get my drift :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> of course, that book was written in the 19th century...
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> but nothing but flat, with a few hills, stagnant water, and lots of wind. No rain, few rivers, etc.
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> kinda like Kansas
04:28 <n54> lol
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> only colder
04:28 <n54> cold != inactivity, quite the opposite...
04:28 <z-man> There's animals to hunt and herd there
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> clearly life can be supported, but man. India had just one invasion from the steppes after another. Persia, too!
04:29 <z-man> The nomads mostly live of their herded animals
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> and then there's a few civilizations built and collapsed
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's almost more active than some areas around the mediterranean for a long time, except nothing ever really stayed
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> like that guy that kept building castles in the swamps, only they never got one to stay up
04:29 <z-man> :)
04:30 <z-man> two, one burned down
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> :)
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> and if the huns have been traced genetically to the chinese, then it seems like the chinese are either steppe people, or the steppe people were just chinese on their way west
04:31 * Lucifer_arma has a vague memory of Chinese being known steppe people already
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> ack. I'm not a historian, I won't worry about it. It's waaaay past my bedtime. 'night
04:32 <z-man> night
04:32 <n54> the chinese are lots of different people though
04:32 <n54> cya :)
04:32 <guru3> whops i read historian as histarian
04:33 <n54> what is a histarian?
04:33 <guru3> as in like histeria
04:33 <guru3> or hysteria
04:33 <n54> ah
04:33 <guru3> or however the hell it's spelt
04:33 <n54> last one was right afaik
04:43 <z-man> off to evaluate 16 student homeworks, yay
04:43 <n54> :)
04:48 <guru3> hf
04:50 <guru3> bbl
04:51 <n54> cya all, have a nice day (and if you see any crazy flagwaving norwegians it's because it's our constitution day) :D
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05:43 -!- spider_ is now known as McSpiddles
05:43 <McSpiddles> d00d
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08:23 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
08:26 <wrtlprnft> morning
08:26 <wrtlprnft> did Lucfer_arma's problems get fixed?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> (if you don't want php5 you have to say echo ">=dev-lang/php-5.0" >> /etc/portage/package.mask
08:29 <wrtlprnft> if you just use emerge with a specific version it will try to update when you say emerge -u world
08:37 <z-man-work> I think he wants php5, and has moved on to more drupal-specific problems
08:37 <z-man-work> the basic setup seemed to work
08:39 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
08:40 <wrtlprnft> there's quite a few use flags for php that you more or less need
08:40 <wrtlprnft> gdlib, libxml, preg and friends
09:32 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:22 <Luke-Jr> apache2 ;)
10:23 <guru3> wow i found some notes in pen
10:23 <guru3> that's rare
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12:11 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: !!!ping
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12:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping!
12:38 <Luke-Jr> armagetron/armagetron/b_0_2_5_end ?
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15:30 <wrtlprnft> > If you don't have an own webserver to host your map or you want to make your map "official", whatever that means, submit it to our resource repository here:
15:30 <wrtlprnft> quote from the wiki :D
15:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:32 <wrtlprnft> hi there
15:32 * Lucifer_arma politely greets wrtlprnft
15:32 <n54> hi all :)
15:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you know about /etc/portage/package.use?
15:32 <wrtlprnft> kinda important if you want a useable PHP installation
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> no I don't, and my php installation is working nicely now
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> except it's php5, and I don't know how much of a problem that'll be by itself, but Mandriva and Kubuntu have both gone to php5 as their default php
15:34 <wrtlprnft> it probably won't have xml support and stuff that some apps need, unless you specified it in you grlobal USE flags
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> probably not, but right now the problem is that mod_rewrite doesn't work
15:35 <wrtlprnft> uh... you using .htaccess or the apache config?
15:35 <wrtlprnft> if you want htaccess you need some ALLOW_OVERRIDE stuff
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> .htaccess
15:36 <wrtlprnft> yeah... you need to change your config for it to work
15:37 <spidey> wrtl
15:37 <wrtlprnft> does it process the .htaccess at all?
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> lemme guess, I need to at -D ALLOW_OVERRIDE to /etc/somethingorother
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not processing the .htaccess at all
15:38 <wrtlprnft> <Directory /whereeveryourwebrootis>
15:38 <wrtlprnft> AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit Indexes
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> I did that, only I put "AllowOverride All"
15:38 <wrtlprnft> AccessFileName .htaccess
15:38 <wrtlprnft> </Directory
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> didn't put the accessfilename
15:38 <wrtlprnft> better do so
15:39 <wrtlprnft> dunno if all is an option
15:39 <wrtlprnft> nvm, it is
15:41 <wrtlprnft> just tested, mine accepts .htaccess just fine
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, i have to run down to the school
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab
15:42 <wrtlprnft> have fun
15:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, wow, our anonymous CVS is down once again
15:53 <spidey> wrtl,aw match isn't today is it?
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16:33 <wrtlprnft> spidey: i told you it was cancelled...
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #notes spider
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #notes
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #list
16:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot: hello?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #echo asdf
16:33 <wrtlprnft> @echo test
16:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot: echo hi
16:34 <wrtlprnft> useless thing...
16:36 <n54> reidentify ;)
16:36 <guru3> good night
16:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, shouldn't it accept commands without me identifying?
16:36 <wrtlprnft> night guru3
16:37 <n54> good night guru3 :)
16:37 <n54> sorry wrtlprnft, seems it is dead so it wont matter either way
16:37 <wrtlprnft> #f
16:37 <n54> but yes
16:37 * wrtlprnft pokes armabot
16:37 * wrtlprnft pokes Lucifer_arma
16:38 <n54> he's probably back at installing/cleaning up gentoo
16:38 <wrtlprnft> wiki is still up
16:39 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/afsdknla
16:39 <wrtlprnft> and that's a mandriva error page
16:39 <n54> ok
16:40 <wrtlprnft> and he said he was gonna be in school anyhow
16:40 <n54> ah yeah true
16:40 <n54> I guess armabot is simply awol then ;D
16:40 <wrtlprnft> doesn't like us
16:40 <n54> ;_;
16:41 <n54> nah that can't be true, I bet she's over in the supybot channels flirting :D
16:41 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:41 <n54> :)
16:42 <wrtlprnft> d'oh. guess what kind of bot is in #supybot
16:43 <n54> supybots?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> one of them
16:43 <wrtlprnft> and guess its name
16:43 <n54> armabot?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> no
16:43 <n54> hmm no idea
16:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
16:44 <n54> homer?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> supybot has a unix plugin capable of fortune
16:44 <wrtlprnft> i's name is... SUPYBOT!
16:44 <n54> fortunebot? oracle?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> what a surprise
16:44 <wrtlprnft> *its
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17:17 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:35 <wrtlprnft> wb Self_Destructo
17:35 <wrtlprnft> you wanted to talk?
17:35 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:42 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: i dunno
17:42 <Self_Destructo> grr
17:42 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i guess about the rotator code
17:44 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:44 <ghableska> hello
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17:44 <n54> hi & cya all :)
17:44 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:44 <ghableska> oops
17:44 <n54> (00:46:46) n54: hi & cya all :)
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17:52 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: yes, you said so yesterday
--- Log closed Wed May 17 18:09:14 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 18:09:31 2006
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--- Log closed Wed May 17 18:19:50 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 18:24:45 2006
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18:25 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: are you there yet?
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18:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, i don't know
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> no, good :)
18:26 <wrtlprnft> no, armabot doesn't work
18:26 <wrtlprnft> #echo hi
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18:26 <Lucifer_arma> she doesn't? Hmmm.......
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
18:27 <wrtlprnft> she lol
18:27 <Self_Destructo> lol
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
18:30 <wrtlprnft> what?
18:30 <wrtlprnft> go away wrtlprnft_
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
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18:30 <wrtlprnft> ...
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:34 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok, so give me an example of how to pull out the data from the xml file
18:34 <wrtlprnft> ok
18:35 <wrtlprnft> you start with something like
18:35 <wrtlprnft> node cur = GetFileContents();
18:35 <wrtlprnft> that's a DOM node, much like the stuff in JavaScript
18:36 <wrtlprnft> it will point to the first child node of the <Resource>
18:36 <wrtlprnft> you have two basic operations on nodes:
18:36 <wrtlprnft> you can increment them, moving to the next element on the same nesting level:
18:36 <wrtlprnft> ++cur;
18:37 <wrtlprnft> or you can go down a level and get the first child node:
18:37 <wrtlprnft> node child = cur.GetFirstChild();
18:37 <wrtlprnft> where the following is the most useful:
18:37 <wrtlprnft> for(cur = cur.GetFirstChild(); cur; ++cur) {
18:38 <wrtlprnft> that will iterate through all childs.
18:38 <wrtlprnft> now i guess you want to get the contents, right?
18:38 <Self_Destructo> yes
18:38 <wrtlprnft> first of all, cur.GetName() returns the type of the node
18:39 <Self_Destructo> er
18:39 <wrtlprnft> so you could say if(cur.GetName() == "Possibility") { ... }
18:39 <Self_Destructo> do all these funtion names exsist already?
18:39 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:39 <wrtlprnft> yeah, they do. node is a class ;)
18:39 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:39 <Self_Destructo> i was wondering what it was
18:40 <wrtlprnft> then, to get properties you say cur.GetProp("name");
18:40 <wrtlprnft> that gets you the attribute "name"
18:40 <wrtlprnft> GetProp has a few friends:
18:40 <wrtlprnft> you can say cur.GetPropBool("propname") to get a bool value
18:41 <wrtlprnft> that function will deal with things like 0 vs 1, yes vs no, true vs false, and on vs off
18:41 <Self_Destructo> k
18:41 <wrtlprnft> a last one is the following: int i; cur.GetProp("name", i);
18:42 <wrtlprnft> that will get the property, attempt to convert it to an integer, and store it in i
18:42 <Self_Destructo> k
18:42 <wrtlprnft> the same works with things like float, double, char, even tCoord
18:42 <Self_Destructo> where do I fand a list of the available funtions?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> tCoord?
18:42 <wrtlprnft> coordinate
18:43 <Self_Destructo> ah
18:43 <wrtlprnft> basically just something that stures two floats and gives you convinient functions
18:43 <wrtlprnft> so you can add them and stuff like that
18:43 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:43 <wrtlprnft> and good question, where is the darn doxy documentation when i need it
18:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh, it doesn't exist
18:44 <wrtlprnft> sec, I'll write it
18:44 <Self_Destructo> k
18:45 <Self_Destructo> i g2g in about 5 mintues
18:45 <Self_Destructo> then I'll be back in a couple of hours
18:45 <wrtlprnft> well, I'll post the link once i have it
18:45 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:47 <Self_Destructo> hm
18:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:47 <Self_Destructo> a list of the funtions to parse the XML file, and a list of output funtions, like new matches, rounds, ect...
18:48 <wrtlprnft> the new matches and rounds is done for you.
18:48 <wrtlprnft> there's two functions in gRotation that get called
18:50 <Self_Destructo> static void HandleNewRound();
18:50 <Self_Destructo> static void HandleNewMatch();
18:50 <Self_Destructo> ?
18:50 <Self_Destructo> i'm guessing
18:50 <wrtlprnft> yeah
18:50 <wrtlprnft> those will sent events to the tree of tags
18:51 <Self_Destructo> what does ~gRotation(); mean? specifically the ~
18:51 <wrtlprnft> it's the destructor
18:52 <wrtlprnft> that means, if an object of that class gets deleted it will get called
18:52 <wrtlprnft> so if that class was to contain any pointers and stuff it could delete them before they get lost
18:52 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:53 <Self_Destructo> pointers is my next thing to study, so evidently I'm missing alot till I get them learned
18:54 <wrtlprnft> uh
18:54 <wrtlprnft> pointers are C stuff
18:54 <Self_Destructo> If you're planning to tackle C++, you're not done yet! First you have to become familiar with multiple levels of pointer indirection, pointer arithmetic, making objects read-only via const, generic pointers (void*), and the relationship pointers have with arrays and functions.
18:54 <Self_Destructo> I'm afraid not
18:55 <Self_Destructo> anyways, i g2g
18:55 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|bbl
18:56 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:01 * z-man yawns, finally finished with work, crawling into his bed
19:01 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-home
19:22 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:26 <wrtlprnft> SD|bbl: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy/classtXmlParserNamespace_1_1tXmlParser_1_1node.html
19:31 <wrtlprnft> does someone have more experience with doxygen here?
19:31 <wrtlprnft> it just ignores some of my documentation :(
19:32 <wrtlprnft> I don
19:34 <wrtlprnft> 't see why it refuses to show my documentation for functions without parameters
20:39 -!- SD|bbl is now known as Self_Destructo
20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtl,I'm back now
20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
20:44 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo:
20:44 <wrtlprnft> got my link?
--- Log closed Wed May 17 20:46:12 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 20:50:12 2006
20:50 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
20:50 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
20:50 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> grrrrrr
20:50 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
20:50 <Self_Destructo> spidey: you there?
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> did i miss anything?
20:50 <Self_Destructo> hey,
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> last thing i got: 20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:37 � ( Self_Destructo ) wrtl,I'm back now
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:37 � ( Self_Destructo ) wrtlprnft:
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:48 � ( Self_Destructo ) #wake wrtlprnft
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:48 � ( Self_Destructo ) #tell wrtlprnft Wake Up! Or I'll Give Up!
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 2
20:50 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:50 <Self_Destructo> ok
20:50 <Self_Destructo> question
20:51 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
20:51 <Self_Destructo> how am I supposed to test this thing as I build it?
20:51 <wrtlprnft> well, first you get the DTD...
20:52 <wrtlprnft> then it *should* already have basic parsing, it just requires you to do the actual objects for settings and the rotation
20:52 <Self_Destructo> k, uhuh, /me is having trouble with getting it warning free
20:52 <wrtlprnft> warning free?
20:52 <wrtlprnft> you mean compile- time warnings
20:52 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:52 <Self_Destructo> no, talking about the DTD with the XML file
20:53 <wrtlprnft> what kind of warnings?
20:53 <Self_Destructo> hrm, I'll have to run it through again
20:54 <Self_Destructo> blah, I'm getting flat out errors right now
20:55 <wrtlprnft> well, can i see them and the files they come from?
20:55 <Self_Destructo> arg!
20:55 <Self_Destructo> it's been a while since I messed with it, so It's scattered out right now
20:56 <wrtlprnft> :P
20:56 <Self_Destructo> umm, I guess I turned around and started with scratch on the XML file, and was building the two together at the same time
20:56 <Self_Destructo> and I didn't get far
20:56 <Self_Destructo> because I ran out of time, IIRC
20:56 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/test-0.0.2.aarotate.xml
20:57 <wrtlprnft> why rebuild it?
20:57 <wrtlprnft> and omit that mode stuff for now, that can come later
20:57 <Self_Destructo> er... ok
20:57 <wrtlprnft> it's too complicated for now, keep it in your mind, but don't implement it
20:58 <Self_Destructo> ok, that helps a bunch
20:58 <wrtlprnft> although you might get away with just implementing it as a special <Rotate> tag
20:58 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml
20:58 <Self_Destructo> that's the final xml file I currently have
20:58 <Self_Destructo> not final final, but final for now
20:59 <Self_Destructo> unless I need to do something with it
20:59 <wrtlprnft> hmm...
20:59 <wrtlprnft> for now I'd say include the <Mode> in the DTD and stuff, but when parsing just take the first <Mode> tag and parse just its contents, omit the rest
21:00 <Luke-Jr> z-man here yet?
21:00 <wrtlprnft> z-man is away again
21:00 <wrtlprnft> #seen z-man
21:00 <wrtlprnft> armabot: armabot armabot
21:00 <wrtlprnft> grr
21:00 <Luke-Jr> did he say anything about b_0_2_5_end ?
21:00 <wrtlprnft> not that i know of
21:01 <wrtlprnft> lynx -dump http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b0_2_5_end
21:01 <wrtlprnft> that's what i'd suggest
21:02 <wrtlprnft> and, no wonder, just one result from you (yet)
21:02 <wrtlprnft> now that we're talking about it there'll be more in 2 minutes
21:03 <Luke-Jr> how about grep b.*0_2_5.*end FreeNode2-#armagetron.log
21:04 <wrtlprnft> it depends on where your logs are
21:04 <wrtlprnft> that lynx command gives you mine
21:05 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: man that is logged as we speak... how'd you do that?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> better would be curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:05 <wrtlprnft> better in what sense?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> doesn't load a whole browser
21:05 <wrtlprnft> would it give you different results?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> and has results
21:06 <wrtlprnft> it has results, yes, now, since it only updates every 5 minutes
21:07 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: it's just a cronjob that uploads my log every 5 minutes
21:07 <Luke-Jr> curl http://.../something.tbz2 | tar xjvp
21:07 <Luke-Jr> :)
21:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, great
21:08 <wrtlprnft> that curl command gives me a status line, a result, another status line, another result, etc
21:08 <wrtlprnft> what a mess
21:09 * wrtlprnft is too lazy to type 2>/dev/null or figure out the right options for curl
21:09 <Luke-Jr> result?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 2 $ curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:09 <wrtlprnft> % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
21:09 <wrtlprnft> Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 92 691k 92 638k 0 0 56625 0 0:00:12 0:00:11 0:00:01 5951412:38 <Luke-Jr> armagetron/armagetron/b_0_2_5_end ?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 100 691k 100 691k 0 0 56817 0 0:00:12 0:00:12 --:--:-- 59480
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 21:00 <Luke-Jr> did he say anything about b_0_2_5_end ?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 21:05 <Luke-Jr> better would be curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:09 <Luke-Jr> o
21:09 <wrtlprnft> see how there's status lines in between?
21:09 <Luke-Jr> -s
21:10 <wrtlprnft> -s for --STFU?
21:10 <Luke-Jr> something like that
21:10 <Luke-Jr> --silent, IIRC
21:10 <wrtlprnft> whatever :D
21:10 <Luke-Jr> it's nice w/ tar ;p
21:10 <wrtlprnft> yeah, well, might be. I don't know what lynx would do with a tar
21:11 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok... now to continue on on how I test it...
21:11 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AEA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <Self_Destructo> after I get the DTD done...
21:11 <Self_Destructo> ?
21:11 <Luke-Jr> Self_Destructo: start the program, and press the Turbo button on your PC
21:11 <Luke-Jr> =p
21:12 <Self_Destructo> #ignore Luke-Jr
21:12 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: put the DTD and the XML file into the right spot ;)
21:12 <Self_Destructo> #define Luke-Jr as irritating
21:13 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok
21:13 <Luke-Jr> s/as//
21:13 <Self_Destructo> it looks like currently it will printout what it's doing
21:13 <Self_Destructo> s/as//?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> printout what?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> it has a few debug messages, yes
21:13 <Self_Destructo> con << ''Received a new round event and ready to handle it!\n'';
21:13 <Luke-Jr> eww, C++
21:14 <wrtlprnft> yep, exactly
21:14 <Luke-Jr> printf("Received a new round event and ready to handle it!\n");
21:14 <Luke-Jr> BTW, that '' shouldn't work
21:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's evil
21:14 <wrtlprnft> printf has to search that string for % signs every time it gets called
21:15 <wrtlprnft> con << doesn't
21:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: looks like Self_Destructo's client likes replacing " by ''
21:15 <wrtlprnft> sucks, if you ask me
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:20:04 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:24:21 2006
21:24 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:24 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
21:24 <wrtlprnft_> grr
21:25 <wrtlprnft_> hello? am i here?
21:26 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.170.150] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:26 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:27 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:27:29 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:27:44 2006
21:27 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:27 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
21:27 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
21:27 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:27:59 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:28:36 2006
21:28 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:28 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:28 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 8 secs
21:28 <wrtlprnft> so, am i back now, finally?
21:28 <wrtlprnft> and did i miss anything important?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's evil
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:14 <wrtlprnft> printf has to search that string for % signs every time it gets called
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> con << doesn't
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: looks like Self_Destructo's client likes replacing " by ''
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> sucks, if you ask me
21:30 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:30 * wrtlprnft wants to kcik his provider, hard
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:34:50 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:35:32 2006
21:35 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:35 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
21:35 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:35 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
21:35 <wrtlprnft_> ...
21:36 <wrtlprnft_> so, err, i didn't get anything after 21:30 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:38 <Self_Destructo> there was nothing but you leaving and coming back in there for about 6 or 7 times
21:39 <wrtlprnft_> wow
21:39 <wrtlprnft_> sorry for that
21:39 <Self_Destructo> didn't bother me any
21:40 <wrtlprnft_> their excuse is that they're "installing additional digital phone lines"
21:41 <Self_Destructo> wrtl
21:41 <wrtlprnft_> i wonder why they would start that on sunday
21:41 <wrtlprnft_> big lie, if you ask me
21:41 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/rotator-0.0.1.txt
21:41 <Self_Destructo> that's the current DTD
21:41 <Self_Destructo> that I am still working on
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> we should find a better way for the type thingy...
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> maybe another DTD and an external entity?
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> <!ATTLIST UseResource type (aamap | aacockpit) "aamap"
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> because we might add types, and they might have to be added in different places
21:43 <Self_Destructo> yeah
21:43 <Self_Destructo> that's a good idea
21:44 <Self_Destructo> i was kinda wondering what to do about that when I was building it
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> and don't let the type default to anything
21:44 <Self_Destructo> because resources will be added
21:44 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> uh
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> <!ATTLIST Message type (center | console | admin | cockpit) "console" #REQUIRED
21:45 <wrtlprnft_> what's the point in specifying a default and making it required anyways?
21:45 <Self_Destructo> accident
21:45 <wrtlprnft_> same with Rotate
21:46 <wrtlprnft_> but looks ok to me otherwise :)
21:46 <Self_Destructo> #REQUIRED is more important than a defualt
21:46 <Self_Destructo> so I got rid of the defualt
21:46 <wrtlprnft_> i'd say let Message::type default to "console" and leave Rotate::* as required
21:47 <wrtlprnft_> i guess I'm missing up the syntax here, :: is c++ ;)
21:47 <wrtlprnft_> *mixing
21:48 <Self_Destructo> lol, i saw
21:50 <Self_Destructo> ok, well, I g2g for tonight
21:50 <Self_Destructo> curfew comes on in a few
21:50 <wrtlprnft_> night
21:51 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
--- Log closed Wed May 17 22:14:20 2006
--- Log opened Thu May 18 01:18:07 2006
01:18 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
01:18 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
01:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
01:20 <z-man-home> hmm, I don't see a pyqt package
01:20 <z-man-home> qtjava and qtruby
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, is portage supposed to be in /usr ?
01:21 <z-man-home> qt-4.1.2 is there, though, so you probably can install pyqt4 after that
01:21 <z-man-home> /usr/portage is the package database
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, pyqt wants 4.1.0, and 4.1.2 is newest
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> kubuntu only offers 4.0.0
01:22 <mkzelda> Lucifer_arma: Now that I've finally gotten drupal running smoothly, and understand most of it, I thank you so much for opening my eyes to it.
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> see, I was going to work on acme, and I thought I'd go check on pyqt4's progress. :)
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: oh yeah? You're welcome. :)
01:22 <z-man-home> yes, I see
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: can I see it? :)
01:23 <mkzelda> www.mkzelda.com
01:23 * n54 takes a peek too :)
01:23 <mkzelda> Obviously not done, but its coming along
01:24 <mkzelda> and check my gallery link, see if it logs you in as me or not
01:24 <mkzelda> cause it does that for me... and theres a bunch of images that are definatly private showing up there...
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, didn't log me in as you
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
01:25 <mkzelda> that gallery module is nifty
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> give me a name of an image and I'll tell you if I can see it (make it not too private)
01:25 <n54> lots of puppies :)
01:25 <mkzelda> how many albums do you see?
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> 7
01:25 <mkzelda> ok
01:25 <mkzelda> there are 12
01:26 <mkzelda> phew
01:26 <mkzelda> i enabled the random image block
01:26 <mkzelda> and all this pr0n came up :D
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's neat how drupal uses the same interface for administration that it uses for the front-end, but it can be disorienting at times
01:26 <guru3> good morning
01:26 <n54> goor morning guru3 and everybody :)
01:26 <z-man-home> morning
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> so where's portage supposed to be?
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> /usr or / ?
01:27 <z-man-home> /usr/portage
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> ok. I untarred it in / :)
01:27 <guru3> tar jxvf portage-snapshot.tar.bz2 -C /usr/portage/
01:27 <guru3> iirc
01:27 <z-man-home> but of course, the "official" way to search it is "emerge -s"
01:27 <z-man-home> you untarred it?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> stage3 install....
01:27 <z-man-home> ah
01:28 <mkzelda> didnt they remove stage1 from the manual
01:28 <guru3> yeah
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> figured I was waiting for qt4 to compile anyway and I was a little pissed about that, I might as well do something productive
01:28 <z-man-home> well, your emerges were working, right? So it must be in the right place.
01:28 <guru3> what's up with that :/
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> this is on my laptop. The server's fine, except I have to figure out why mod_rewrite isn't working
01:28 <mkzelda> yea, i got slammed by the devs/mods on the forums for saying something negative about that
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh. about mod_rewrite being broke by default?
01:29 <mkzelda> no, about stage1 removal
01:29 * Lucifer_arma mumbles about a web server isn't a web server without mod_rewrite
01:29 <guru3> to me not having stage one sorta defeats the purpose
01:29 <guru3> so naturally i do stage1 anyway
01:30 <mkzelda> i hate forums, i rarely use them, and when i do, i tend to be the catalyst for the biggest flame war ever
01:30 <mkzelda> and then my question never gets answered
01:30 <guru3> lol
01:31 <mkzelda> it blows my mind b/c im a pretty laidback and chill kind of guy
01:32 <mkzelda> and i can have convos in any other setting/medium no problem
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> FUCK YOU AND ALL STAGES!!?!!!111!!1ONE!!ONEone
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> er
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> did that come out here? I thought I only thunk it...
01:32 <n54> *shakes soda can violently and throws to Lucifer* here, have a relaxing drink :)
01:33 <mkzelda> i just cleaned up the most massive nasty diarrhea pile
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> now, here's two things that don't make sense to me
01:33 <mkzelda> im pretty sure all of you wanted to know that about me
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> 1) Konsole doesn't automatically go into the system tray !?
01:33 <mkzelda> my puppies got spayed today, very sick :(
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> 2) Konsole lets me do zmodem upload
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> ack
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> I saw something about that on your website. :)
01:34 * n54 read that as "sprayed" :C
01:34 <mkzelda> nah, that wasnt on the site
01:34 <mkzelda> that was just a title similar
01:34 <mkzelda> most kapps dont default to systray b/c not all users of kapps use k
01:35 <mkzelda> i did take pics of the deeeerah
01:35 <mkzelda> it was amazingly sick
01:35 <mkzelda> website worthy
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> where the hell is this mirrorselect tool supposed to be?
01:36 <mkzelda> its supposed to help select a mirror
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> the section says "optional", so I'm going to option my way past it
01:36 <mkzelda> it pings a shitload of servers
01:36 <mkzelda> and finds those w/ the lowest ping
01:36 <mkzelda> and then u use those for rsync/distfiles
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> lowest ping eh? Nice to know I'll be able to core dump people there, but how many players can play?
01:36 <mkzelda> u can do the same for ntp selection
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> why don't they flood each server and pick the one that takes the most pings without overloading?
01:37 <mkzelda> its more than just lowest ping i believe
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> seems like that'd pick the best mirror :)
01:37 <mkzelda> i just havent looked closer to see
01:37 <mkzelda> seems to do a good job
01:37 <mkzelda> i tend to agree w/ its selections
01:37 <mkzelda> ima tell u now tho...
01:37 <mkzelda> mirror.datapipe.net works quite well for me
01:37 <mkzelda> for distfiles mirror
01:37 <mkzelda> .net may not be right
01:38 <mkzelda> its in the mirror list
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> I think you gave me that one last time, and I stuck it in there
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> this time I'm optioning my way past it, I'll dig it out later from my other one :)
01:38 <mkzelda> it maxes my connection 95% of the time
01:40 <mkzelda> i wish there was a way to purge the drupal access log of particular events
01:40 <mkzelda> like i fixed certain SQL errors I'd like to never look at again
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> what will happen first? Will I finish installing gentoo, or will qt4 finish building? Mind you, I don't need to build qt4 to get gentoo working and useable...
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> access log gets automatically flushed
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> you did set up your cronjobs, right?
01:41 <mkzelda> no, couldnt select an appropriate module
01:41 <mkzelda> there were like 10 cron modules
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> the cronjob is supposed to clear out entries older than a certain configurable window
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> oh, nononono. Don't use one of their cron modules.
01:41 <mkzelda> yea, but which module are u using
01:41 <mkzelda> and which one are you using to put your taxonomy in a block
01:42 <guru3> bbl
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> drupal ships with the one you should use, the rest are for situations where you're unable to use cron
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> is drupal on your server, or some cheap web hosting service, or what?
01:42 <mkzelda> cheap web hosting service
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, may not matter. Did you install 4.7?
01:43 <mkzelda> Cron has not run. It appears cron jobs have not been setup on your system. Please check the help pages for configuring cron jobs.
01:43 <mkzelda> yes
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> basically the operation is a wget call in a crontab that you control, and wget requests the page that does the work
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> the drupal 4.7 docs tell you what to do there, I'll dig up a link in a sec
01:43 <mkzelda> yea i got it
01:43 <mkzelda> http://drupal.org/cron
01:44 <mkzelda> Sat Mar 18 06:24:06 2006 >>> x11-libs/qt-4.1.1
01:44 <mkzelda> merge time: 43 minutes and 39 seconds.
01:44 <mkzelda> Mon Mar 20 13:43:35 2006 >>> x11-libs/qt-3.3.6
01:44 <mkzelda> merge time: 15 minutes and 56 seconds.
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> and what did you mean here? <mkzelda> and which one are you using to put your taxonomy in a block
01:44 -!- spidey [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:45 <mkzelda> well, i guess its your navigation panel
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> on my davefancella.com site?
01:45 <mkzelda> how do you get your categories to show up as links
01:45 <mkzelda> yes
01:45 <mkzelda> 'getting around'
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> ah. That's just a menu
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> I put all those entries in there the Hard Way
01:46 <mkzelda> 'Primary links' took me the longest to figure out
01:46 <mkzelda> i dont really like it
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> that's not the actual structure of my taxonomy. :) My taxonomy is better ordered than that, it's just not ordered well for casual surfers
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't like either primary or secondary links, did I use them? heh
01:47 <mkzelda> i ended up leaving it thinking i'd like it, right now i use it to link my feedback/todo list
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's supposed to be a search box there, but it's screwed up
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> and the other is the paypal link.
01:47 <guru3> back
01:47 <mkzelda> I expected to be able to add some urls like my gallery and forum
01:47 <mkzelda> in a section called links
01:47 <mkzelda> heh
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think they threw those in there in a half-assed fashion and would rather use a block now
01:47 <mkzelda> or primary links i guess
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'd prefer those to be block positions supported by all template engines
01:48 <mkzelda> the templates are teh suck
01:48 <mkzelda> they all look the same
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, they're stock templates, what did you expect? :)
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> there are some beautiful templates out there, but I prefer to grow my own anyway
01:48 <mkzelda> not hte stock, the list on the webpage
01:49 <mkzelda> they alll look the same too
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah. look at the list you get when you google drupal templates :)
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> what I'd really like right now is a drupalized MonoBook template, from wikipedia.
01:49 <mkzelda> yea, i planned on it, i just wanted something else other than default
01:49 <mkzelda> but everything else sucked
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> I used their pushbutton template until I was ready to port my old one over.
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01:50 <Lucifer_arma> it was the top turd on the pile. :)
01:50 <mkzelda> i like goofy but it doesnt work
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'd like a block that let me expose my taxonomy, though.
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> and let me disable pieces, and reorder them. Maintaining that menu is a pain, so I don't do it, and it keeps sucking, and every day it sucks a little more from inaction.
01:52 <mkzelda> there are modules that do it
01:52 <mkzelda> but the few that i tried gave me sql errors
01:52 <Lucifer_arma> I saw modules tht do it in the content pane, but not that did it in blocks
01:53 <mkzelda> i went through that entire list and downloaded anything that sounded interesting
01:53 <mkzelda> about 75% worked
01:53 <mkzelda> about 50% of those i still liked
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, 4.7 picked up database independence, there are api calls instead that you're supposed to use. Sure you were using modules for the right version?
01:53 <mkzelda> yes
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha. That's actually an amazing hit rate for such a list. :)
01:53 <mkzelda> but they didnt fully test them i think
01:53 <mkzelda> 75% of what i tried worked
01:53 <mkzelda> i got about 20-25 modules
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> my hit rate for Mambo components was less than 30% worked, and 10% I liked
01:54 <mkzelda> im using about 5-10 of them now
01:54 <guru3> what's the difference between an ion and a free radical?
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> you interested in any drupal hacking?
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> ion has an electrical charge
01:54 <mkzelda> yes
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> dont' know what free radical means, unless you just mean "element"
01:55 <mkzelda> Cron is running. The last cron job ran 12 sec ago.
01:55 <mkzelda> all i did was visit the url once, will it continue on its own
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> ion is like, ummm. Hydrogen loses 1 electron to become Hydride
01:55 <guru3> Cl2 + UV light -> 2Cl radicals
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> no, you have to put it in a cronjob, like on your own machine
01:55 <mkzelda> ok
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't have a server to run it on, I can put it on mine for you.
01:56 <mkzelda> the 'cron is running' deceived me
01:56 <mkzelda> thx, it shouldnt be a prob tho
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: break down the equation and write, um, the ionized form?
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> how many electrons does one chloride have in Cl2? I think it's more than how many it normally has, isn't it?
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> UV Light adds electrons (or subtracts, I forget)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> when the UV Light interacts with the Cl2, you wind up with two separate, complete Cl atoms
01:58 <guru3> chlorine is diatomic
01:58 <guru3> by itself Cl has 7 electrons
01:58 <guru3> Cl2 has 14
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> sure about that?
01:58 * Lucifer_arma pulls out his chemistry notebook
01:58 <guru3> well, it's in the 7 electron in my outer orbital period
02:00 <guru3> or group really
02:00 <guru3> gah chemistry exam today :/
02:00 <Lucifer_arma> ? I had a lewis structure for Cl2 drawn at one point
02:01 <guru3> yeah it's
02:01 <guru3> .. ..
02:01 <guru3> :Cl:Cl:
02:01 <guru3> .. ..
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> aha, there we go
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> Chlorine gains 1 electron to become Chloride
02:02 <mkzelda> webhost allowed cron no probs
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> Umm, hm. Cl2, that's a covalent bond, right?
02:02 <guru3> but the why's that Cl. and not Cl-
02:02 <guru3> yes
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> what property of UV light causes the Cl2 to break up?
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> I would have thought it either pushed an electron onto the Chlorine atoms or it would push one off, causing the split
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> if it added electrons, that would leave you with 2 Chlorides, not 2 Chlorines
02:04 * Lucifer_arma reminds guru3 that he dropped his chem class and will retake it in the fall
02:04 <guru3> heh
02:04 <guru3> odds are i won't be asked to explain it
02:04 <guru3> but simply tell if something is a radical or an ion
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> well that should be easy, then, right?
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> assuming radical = electrically neutral element, as in "exactly what's on the periodic table"
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> we just called those "atoms", so I don't have any idea if radical is a different configuration or not
02:05 <guru3> yes aparently radicals don't have an electric charge
02:05 <n54> let's not assume http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_%28chemistry%29
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> what did google say? :)
02:06 <guru3> ok i get it now
02:06 <guru3> thanks
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> aha
02:06 <guru3> ..
02:06 <guru3> :Cl:
02:06 <guru3> '
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> so you left a symbol out of your chemical equation :)
02:06 <guru3> that has no overall charge
02:07 <guru3> but an unpaired electron => free radical
02:07 <n54> yup that's howe it seems to me t least
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> don't all the elements in group 7 have an unpaired electron?
02:07 <guru3> they're all diatomic
02:07 -!- spidey is now known as McSpiddles
02:07 <n54> and since they're diatomic that would be yes right?
02:08 <guru3> well you see
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> so 1 parallel spin? :)
02:08 <guru3> since they're diatomic the always come in X2
02:08 <guru3> so they don't naturally occur as free radicals
02:08 <guru3> if they get split exactly (as by UV light)
02:08 <guru3> then they become radicals
02:08 <n54> yes well put
02:09 * n54 thinks guru3 will fly through the chem exams :)
02:09 <guru3> hah
02:09 <guru3> i'm starting to think i lost a chunk of my notes
02:10 <n54> probably all the stuff you thought "that's too easy to write down" :)
02:10 <n54> I mean the three of us blasted away at free radicals right?
02:10 <guru3> can anyone tell me about dG = dH -TdS
02:11 <n54> sorry I can't even read that :) what does it mean?
02:11 <guru3> that's the question
02:11 <guru3> it's a formula for checking the spontaneity of reactions
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> what's G H and T? :)
02:11 * n54 goes looking for his uni chem book
02:12 <n54> I wonder more about G, T could be Tin
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's a mystery to me, probably from the latter half of the class?
02:12 <guru3> h is enthalpy i think
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> I suspect T is time
02:12 <guru3> t is temperature
02:12 <guru3> not sure what S is :/
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> are dG, dH, and dS derivatives?
02:13 <guru3> delta
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> and, um, is this a calc-based chem course? ;)
02:13 <guru3> change
02:13 <guru3> no
02:13 <guru3> s is entropy
02:13 <n54> hmm is this about bond energy and enthalpy?
02:14 <guru3> sort of
02:15 <n54> delta H = sigma D (bonds broken) - sigma D (bonds formed) (sigma == sum sign)
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> I just found that equation
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> does this have anything to do with q=mc(delta)t?
02:16 <n54> but guru3 wrote: dG = dH -TdS *n54 doesn't know*
02:16 <guru3> ok
02:16 <guru3> dG = Gibbs free energy change
02:16 <n54> ok
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> ah, that's new to me
02:17 <guru3> when it's negative a reaction is spontaneous
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm guessing dS is change in seconds
02:17 <n54> *tries to find that in the book'
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> dH looks like enthalpy of formation
02:17 <guru3> dH = the enthalpy change of the reaction
02:17 <guru3> T = the temperature in kelvin
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> right, which is a constant for any compound
02:17 <guru3> dS = the entropy change of the equation
02:17 <guru3> no T is not constant
02:17 <guru3> T is the T at which you hope the reaction occurs
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> dH, I was talking about
02:18 <guru3> oh
02:18 <guru3> that's the same for a given reaction yes
02:18 * n54 found it too
02:18 <n54> S is the entrophy
02:18 <n54> entropy*
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> so it looks like you're checking how much dH has been released at given times after the reaction begins
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> or something to that effect <insert precise chemistry language here>
02:19 <guru3> or something yeah
02:19 <guru3> onto rates of reaction
02:19 <n54> definition: G (free energy) = H (enthalpy) - TS (Kelvin temperature times entropy)
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02:20 <guru3> heterogeneous catalysts crack me up
02:21 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy I had to look up enthalpy :)
02:23 <guru3> can anyone look up colision theory for me?
02:23 <n54> sure
02:23 <guru3> thnx
02:23 <guru3> nm
02:23 <guru3> found it in notes
02:23 <n54> ok, did you mean as in chemical kinetics?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> enthalpy = heat :)
02:24 <n54> Lucifer_arma: according to wikipedia: Enthalpy (symbolized H, also called heat content) is the sum of the internal energy of matter and the product of its volume and pressure
02:25 <n54> so yes heat, but heat in all "forms"
02:25 <n54> if you get my meaning :)
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, knock off an electron and you get radiation, right?
02:25 <guru3> but you can't measure absolute enthalpy
02:26 <n54> yes
02:26 <guru3> beta radiation to be exact
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> teacher didn't tell us which kind. :) Man, I had a sucky teacher.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> now, I'll retake it, and then we'll know for sure if my teacher was sucky, or if I was sucky
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I got the email from my calc teacher. I got an A!
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> er, wait a minute, I already told you guys.
02:26 <n54> can you choose a different one?
02:27 <n54> yup you did :)
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's why I dropped it. To take my chances with a different teacher. :)
02:27 <n54> good :)
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> I had a C in the class, I could have passed it, it's not like I was in danger of failing
02:27 <guru3> lol
02:27 <mkzelda> awwww just realized the wishlist module is getting sql errors :(
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> awwwwwwwww
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> why do gentoo people use nano? WHAT'S WRONG WITH VI????!!!?
02:29 <n54> heh I miss notepad when on *nix -- I just wan't to be able to write UTF-8 pure tect - nothing more
02:29 <n54> so that's wrong with vi ;)
02:29 <n54> open - save -exit nothing more needed :)
02:29 <guru3> i use vi
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, don't use one of those weird languages that claims it uses a 26-letter alphabet but is lying, or you wouldn't need utf8 :)
02:29 * n54 has toyed with the idea of writing such an app in python
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> vi doesn't support unicode?
02:30 * Lucifer_arma notes that kwrite and kate handle it just fine
02:30 <n54> they both suck at i18n imo
02:30 <n54> but I'm only running kde at this knoppix box
02:31 <mkzelda> I use nano
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> kate: tools->encoding->pick one
02:31 <n54> *tries it for the umpteenth time, perhaps lucifer saying it will make it come true*
02:32 <n54> can well be a fubar of knoppix though
02:32 <mkzelda> i starting using pico in '97 so i never used anything else cause i was already comfortable
02:32 <mkzelda> although i have tried
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not promising what it will look like, of course. :) I never change that stuff because utf8 and ascii are the same for my purposes.
02:33 <n54> dang nabbit! *sends lucifer a chicken in the mail*
02:33 <n54> ....must have been fixed on this knoppix version
02:33 * Lucifer_arma wonders if receiving a chicken in the mail should be taken as a compliment or an insult :)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> (not that it matters, food is food, after all)
02:33 <n54> hehe :D compliment
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better pay attention to configuring my kernel, this will be pretty important.
02:34 <n54> and a slight reference toblack computer magic
02:35 <McSpiddles> wrtl?
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> why does vim take so long to build?
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.vim.org/htmldoc/mbyte.html <--- vim will do it too
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> :set encoding=utf-8
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: I noticed that my new gentoo server booted a whole lot faster than it's mandriva incarnation
02:40 <n54> I'm more familiar with emacs than win although I have both on my windows box as well, so I've always grudgingly used emacs in the past on knoppix (man is that beast ugly or what?)
02:40 <n54> wim*
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> *vim
02:40 <n54> vim* aaaargh!
02:41 <guru3> 2/5th thru my chem binder
02:41 <n54> :D
02:41 <guru3> time for a break
02:41 <n54> :)
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> I only use vi because it works just like vue from the old alpha-micro system in my high school
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> wow, I just realized that, too.
02:41 <guru3> i use vi
02:42 <guru3> cause i'm not sure why
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> heh. Now I realize why I originally made an alias vue for vi back when I first started with Mandrake.
02:42 <guru3> i just wound up using it
02:42 <n54> vi is good to know though since it's the standard really
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I used it back on the UNICOS system for the NM supercomputing challenge, too. It was a Cray XMPE I think
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> 2 processors
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> because.... ed sucks, and vi acted just like vue
02:44 * n54 can't never remember if what I've used on obsd is called mc or mg or m*something*
02:44 <guru3> mama mia!
02:44 <n54> you_mom isn't here ;)
02:44 <guru3> haha
02:44 <n54> your*
02:44 <n54> :D
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> mama mia let me go!
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:45 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as You_mama
02:45 <n54> ah queen song
02:45 <You_mama> if I use this nickname, will people think I'm Your_mom?
02:45 <guru3> lol
02:45 -!- You_mama is now known as Lucifer_arma
02:45 <n54> somewhat liekly
02:45 <n54> likely*
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> he's probably been away long enough again for a lot of people to forget about him
02:45 -!- guru3 is now known as your_mothers
02:45 <n54> holiday or something like that?
02:46 * your_mothers so fat texas looks small
02:46 -!- your_mothers is now known as guru3
02:46 <n54> hehe
02:46 * n54 wonders where mom is
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha, should I compile in Amiga FFS support? :)
02:57 <n54> sure, but what would you do with it? :)
02:58 <n54> armabot is still sleeping?
03:06 <n54> ...
03:06 <guru3> lol
03:06 <n54> ?
03:07 <guru3> nm
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> apparently armabot's broke
03:14 <guru3> no!
03:14 <guru3> :o
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, if I hd Amiga FFS support, I could use the floppy drive this laptop doesn't have to write the disk images I do have to disk for the amiga I don't have
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> I hope I configured this kernel correctly, it's been a few years since I configured a kernel
03:18 <guru3> you;; soon know
03:19 <guru3> you;;
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, probably not terribly soon
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> qt4 finished building
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> hwich means I'll finish the gentoo isntall a different day
03:30 <guru3> exam time
03:30 <guru3> bbl
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> I still have 3 letters to write tonight that I've been slacking on, one of which is needed to determine residency so my next class will be half the price
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> good luck
03:30 <guru3> thnx
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06:08 <spider> dood
06:08 <spider> i found my floor
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07:22 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: z-man-work z-man-work z-man-work z-man-work
07:24 <Luke-Jr> tag b_0_2_5_end . keep or delete?
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07:43 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: what about asking on the forums?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma if you don't like nano (like me) edit /etc/rc.conf and change the EDITOR variable there
07:50 <wrtlprnft> nano sucks, alone because of the annoying nano -w (yes you can alias it and stuff, but that sucks)
07:52 <wrtlprnft> and i don't wanna permanently waste 5 lines for useleess stuff (2 help lines, 2 blank lines (!), and one status line)
08:13 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: it doesn't get more visible if you repeat it on one line :)
08:13 <z-man-work> is the tag really at the end of b_0_2_5? Then delete.
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09:29 <McSpiddles> wrtl
09:41 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
09:41 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
09:44 <Gnorty> wb all
10:20 <guru3> ouch :/
10:38 <guru3> garr
10:38 <guru3> where's lucifer when you want to try and set up a db cluster
10:41 <z-man-work> sleeping or working, I guess
10:42 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: there's three morons on your race server, kicking out everybody who joins. Thought you may want to know :) One of them is named "Ian", I forgot about the others. I was "ZMan" when they hit me.
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13:34 <n54> huh you beat the internet again! :o
13:36 <guru3> haha
13:36 <n54> hi guru3 :) how did it go today?
13:36 <guru3> the ib made a mistake on the chem exam
13:36 <guru3> and
13:36 <guru3> they forgot to allow us to have periodic tables
13:36 <guru3> on the multiple choice
13:36 <n54> :o
13:37 <guru3> so we were screwed for a lot of questions
13:37 <guru3> they say that they'll take that into account tho
13:37 <n54> yeah that basically means you'll pass, a small snafu (much smaller than what you experienced) was all that saved me from having to retake higher maths :D
13:37 <n54> only one question actually lol :)
13:38 <guru3> lol
13:38 <guru3> oops ><
13:38 <n54> hehe yeah not a proud moment for me
13:38 <guru3> :/
13:38 <guru3> i hopes i pass
13:38 <n54> you probably will
13:39 <n54> and ib is hard, I don't know of any other system at that level which is that hard (although there might be)
13:40 <z-man> n54: no, z-man-work never times out
13:40 <n54> aah ok :)
13:41 <guru3> hrhr
13:41 <guru3> it's hard
13:42 <guru3> environmental chemistry and biochemistry options tomorrow
13:42 <guru3> and guess what n54
13:42 <guru3> there was a question
13:42 <guru3> like
13:42 <guru3> defining a free radical
13:42 <guru3> in the multiple choice
13:42 <n54> *guesses what* :)
13:42 <guru3> i was like
13:42 <n54> cool :D
13:42 <guru3> "pwnt"
13:42 <n54> oh?
13:42 <guru3> yeah
13:42 <guru3> cause we went over it
13:42 <guru3> i pwned the question
13:42 <n54> like you made it right?
13:42 <guru3> yes
13:42 <n54> good! :D
13:43 <n54> I guess we can say wikipedia to the rescue hehe :)
13:43 <guru3> hrhr
13:43 <guru3> sshhh
13:44 <n54> :)
13:44 <guru3> actually, i'm not supposed to be talking about the exam :/
13:44 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:44 <guru3> stupid ib
13:44 <n54> ah yeah but you know, it's more like "not memorize it all and give it away"
13:45 <guru3> nah
13:45 <guru3> :)
13:47 <n54> strangely my "Chemical Principles" by Steven S. Zumdahl does not index free radicals or radicals, I wonder why
13:48 <guru3> Oo
13:48 <guru3> fubar
13:49 <n54> it's a very good book, perhaps it uses more specific names or something such
13:50 <guru3> i don't think there's another name for it
13:51 <n54> you might be right as the wikipedia article didn't mention any iirc
13:53 <guru3> ><
13:54 <guru3> what's H2S called
13:56 <n54> dihydrogen sulfur? not sure
13:56 <guru3> that's the point :S
13:56 <guru3> those chlorine radicals in the ozone
13:56 <guru3> they suck
13:57 <guru3> O3 + Cl. -> O2 + OCl.
13:57 <n54> hydrogen sulfide is another way of naming it it seems
13:57 <guru3> OCl. + O3 + O -> 2O2 + Cl.
13:57 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide
13:57 <guru3> curses upon you chlorofloro carbons with your cool names!
13:57 <guru3> thnx n54 :)
13:57 <n54> mp :)
13:58 <guru3> mp :)
14:02 <Gnorty> IS LUCI HERE?
14:02 <Gnorty> oops. sorry for caps
14:02 <guru3> damnit
14:02 <guru3> i was just about to reply in caps
14:02 <guru3> no he's not
14:03 <Gnorty> heh
14:03 <wrtl_web_broken> z-man: I'll take care of it when i come home, thanks. If I use the ban command, will it still be there after a restart? That server has dedicated_idle set to 1...
14:03 <n54> :) & hi Gnorty
14:03 <Gnorty> hi n54 :)
14:03 <wrtl_web_broken> spidey: yes?
14:04 <Gnorty> wrtl - spidey wanted you hours ago - idiots on race server
14:08 <Gnorty> wrtl - if whatever client you are using isnt lagged by 3-4 hours, can you help me a little with the new HUD?
14:11 * Gnorty thinks wrtls client is lagged
14:11 <n54> yeah probably
14:12 <Gnorty> when I am asleep he will reply
14:12 -!- wrtl_web_broken2 [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:12 <wrtl_web_broken> yesterday i played there and some guy renamed himself to Admin (red color) and claimed the server would restart in 30 seconds... imagine his surprise when first the "real" admin said it would restart in 10 seconds and in ten seconds it restarted
14:12 <wrtl_web_broken2> yesterday i played there and some guy renamed himself to Admin (red color) and claimed the server would restart in 30 seconds... imagine his surprise when first the "real" admin said it would restart in 10 seconds and in ten seconds it restarted
14:12 <Gnorty> wrtl has the brokenest client
14:13 <guru3> wrtl_web_broken_record.
14:13 <Gnorty> is there a prize for that?
14:13 <n54> :)
14:14 <guru3> :s
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <n54> huh I had never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC before now, they've got some books for dl as well
14:14 <n54> heh Gnorty :)
14:15 <wrtl_web_broken2> the client i use right now isn't lagged, but it doesn't show the replies...
14:16 <wrtl_web_broken2> I have to use the logs my computer at home produces to read anything, and those get updated all 5 minutes
14:16 <Gnorty> :O
14:16 <Gnorty> that is pretty broken...
14:16 <guru3> :/
14:16 <guru3> wrtl_web_broken2: what client is it?
14:16 <guru3> Gnorty: don't push it
14:16 <wrtl_web_broken2> so, yes, not the best time to talk. I'll be home in abut an hour 45 minutes
14:17 <Gnorty> -wrtl_web_broken- VERSION CGI:IRC 0.5.8 (2006/04/30) - http://cgiirc.sf.net/
14:17 <Gnorty> guru3 -??
14:18 <guru3> with repeating
14:18 <guru3> wrtl, would a java client be better?
14:18 <wrtl_web_broken2> and now i have to leave, sorry
14:18 <Gnorty> I did a while back for a joke, it's nmot like I make a hbit of it. but point taken I guess/
14:19 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/dihymon1.jpg
14:19 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/dihymon2.jpg
14:20 <guru3> that shit is dangerous! look out!
14:21 <n54> hehe
14:23 <guru3> i'm serious
14:23 <guru3> you don't look out
14:23 <guru3> you could die
14:24 <n54> :)
14:30 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/graphicblog/
14:30 <n54> hehe
14:43 <Gnorty> heh, the IRC logs are funny.
14:43 <Gnorty> didn't realise I caps-locked so much!
14:43 <guru3> my site is so disjointe
14:43 <guru3> d
14:44 <z-man> har, I just got my gf with the dihydrogenmonoxide stuff. Again :)
14:44 <guru3> haha
14:44 <guru3> showed her those images? x)
14:46 <z-man> No, I explained it to her
14:46 <guru3> aww :(
14:46 <z-man> works much better with her :)
14:46 <guru3> x)
14:46 <guru3> when in doubt- it's carcenogenic
14:47 <guru3> nitrates? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> uv light? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> mercury? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> cadmium? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> pizza? carcenogenic!
14:48 <guru3> lead? carcenogenic!
14:48 <guru3> couldn't remember the last of the heavy metals
14:48 <z-man> reminds me of that:
14:48 <z-man> http://www.easy2remember.name/media/67/Rubidium-and-cesium-in-water.html
14:49 <z-man> In the end, they say "For some reason, they wouln't let us have Francium" :)
14:49 <guru3> i've seen the K and Na and stuff in real life
14:51 <guru3> the real question
14:51 <guru3> is why you keep links like that around? ;)
14:51 <z-man> My father brought us some blocks of Na to play with :)
14:51 <z-man> I don't :)
14:51 <z-man> It's in some other archive
14:52 <guru3> hrhr
14:52 <guru3> haha
14:52 * z-man hates it when one konqueror window hangs and it blocks another konqueror window
14:52 <guru3> that was amuzing
15:02 <Gnorty> that program is on TV here most days I think
15:02 <Gnorty> its cool
15:19 <wrtlprnft> omg
15:20 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:20 <wrtlprnft> i frote all those messages from wrtl_web_broken2 within a minute or so
15:20 <wrtlprnft> and they came spread over some minutes
15:20 <wrtlprnft> *wrote
15:21 <wrtlprnft> i use joda's website, but since it's blocked from scholl i have to use a proxy script, and it kinda screws things up
15:22 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
15:22 -!- wrtl_web_broken2 [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
15:22 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetron.nixda.net
15:26 <n54> wow "prison break" really has some twists and turns :o
15:32 <guru3> yeah
15:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:33 <n54> just saw the episode with the taj mahal model on tv, it's the only thing on tv I try to catch
15:33 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> ack. It's terribly easy to break a bootloader, apparently
15:36 <n54> yes
15:36 <n54> they're tiny fragile things
15:37 <n54> I guess perhaps you reformatted whatever partiion it was hidden in?
15:37 * n54 has done that blunder
15:43 <guru3> there you are Lucifer_arma
15:43 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/question3.png
15:43 <guru3> a friend of mine in college in the uk
15:44 <guru3> needed some help with his maths
15:44 <guru3> i did that answer ><
15:44 <guru3> had to consult my notes tho :/
15:44 <guru3> if i'd had it memorized i wouldn't a done so bad on the exam
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> ? ummm, where's the problem? :) I see lots of work, but which one's the problem?
16:02 <guru3> good night
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> no, I tried to install the bootloader according to gentoo docs, and it not only wiped out the old one, but it put a non-working one in its place
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'e got Simple Boot Manager, which is pretty neat, and GRUB installed for the Kubuntu partition, and I'll try to install grub for the gentoo partition too.
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> it means I'll have to hit enter twice when I boot, once for SBM, and once for a grub
16:09 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: you wanted help with the HUD?
16:12 <n54> ah ok, a recent grub version or the "ancient" one?
16:12 <n54> sorry stupid question that was :)
16:14 <wrtlprnft> why is this stupid log not saying who voted for what poll?
16:14 <wrtlprnft> I though
16:14 <wrtlprnft> t it would be in the logs even if voting_privacy was high
16:17 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, bans persist over sessions.
16:18 <McSpiddles> wrtl
16:18 <McSpiddles> when's the aw match?
16:18 <z-man> But don't ban them without reading the logs, I hardly saw what they were doing on account of being kicked immediately :) Perhaps they just wanted to have a private party and were only impolite.
16:19 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: not planned right now
16:19 <McSpiddles> k
16:19 <wrtlprnft> no, those guys are total idiots
16:19 <wrtlprnft> just reading
16:20 <wrtlprnft> they basically kicked everyone there
16:20 <wrtlprnft> and talked about shit
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> which guys? am I missing good dirty happenings?
16:20 * Lucifer_arma puts on his gossip hat
16:21 <wrtlprnft> z-man: d'oh. Guess what they did by getting you autobanned...
16:21 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no, just three unknown kiddies on wrtlprnft's race server kick-voting me
16:21 <wrtlprnft> they banned your master server as well
16:21 <z-man> Ban the master server?
16:21 <z-man> Ah, no worries :)
16:21 <Lucifer_arma> good thing we have more than one...
16:21 <z-man> I wasn't playing from home.
16:21 <wrtlprnft> [17] Players from IP 134.95.67.124 are banned for 43 minutes. Reason: This is an autoban from being kicked too often.
16:21 <z-man> That's my work UP
16:22 <z-man> IP
16:22 <wrtlprnft> i know, i did a whois and it says stuff about uni k�ln
16:22 <z-man> and pings, what the master does, aren't banned
16:22 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
16:22 <z-man> so even if I had played from home, nothing would have happened.
16:22 <z-man> The master server is running from home, btw. Just Fortress runs on stolen bandwidth :)
16:23 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> so what did they talk about then? without giving up anything personal or whatever...
16:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man: you mind giving me that script you have on the CVS test servers?
16:23 <z-man> Nothing, I enter, they kickvote.
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> they're not planning to stage a coup or anything, eh?
16:24 <z-man> They did that with everyone
16:24 <wrtlprnft> no, definitely not
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> just wanted to kick everyone for he-said she-said crap?
16:24 <z-man> wrtlprnft: it's very crude...
16:24 <wrtlprnft> I'll upload the logs...
16:25 <z-man> Nah, really, that's overkill
16:25 <wrtlprnft> it's not their server
16:25 <z-man> It's just kiddies
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh.
16:26 <z-man> I'd rather interpret it as a feature request for "Lock this server, we're having a private match" feature :)
16:26 <z-man> Or a note to the server admin that the voting bias isn't high enough.
16:26 <wrtlprnft> they weren't having anything like that
16:27 <wrtlprnft> hmm, if there's 4 people and 3 vote, that's enough of a reson to me
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmmm. "Lock my server for a private match: $10/hour" :)
16:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:27 <z-man> Sure, why not? You can leave your credit card info in the request form.
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> not that I wouldn't mind having such a feature otherwise, integrate it with a tourney php script and you've got SPOON handled easily.
16:28 <z-man> right, only problem is that you want to allow players who timed out or whatnot back on
16:29 <z-man> so no authentication, no deal
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> the integration part assumes authentication, or at least a reasonable acceptance of identity.
16:29 <z-man> ok
16:30 <z-man> semi off topic: bzflag has a team league with elo-style ratings
16:30 <z-man> managed by some software that is OS, too.
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> could just be "hit the php script from the computer you want to play from first", then use that IP as the basis of identity
16:30 <z-man> Think we should have a look at it?
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> what software?
16:30 * z-man is digging
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> what's elo-style ratings? :)
16:31 <z-man> Sort of what our ladder does, only better designed
16:31 <z-man> win a match, gain points, lose a match, lose points
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELO_rating_system
16:31 <z-man> the stronger your opponent, the more you can gain by winning
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> anybody read Split Infinity by Piers Anthony?
16:32 <z-man> http://my.bzflag.org/league/
16:32 <z-man> http://sourceforge.net/projects/web-league
16:32 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no, haven't read that
16:33 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I wonder if there's a good explanation of the tournament system in that book available somewhere...
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'd liek to like the key features of the tourney in that book for armagetron :)
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> I'd liek to *lift the key features of the tourney in that book for armagetron :)
16:39 <n54> that wikipedia article on Elo was interesting stuff
16:39 <n54> /s/liek/like :)
16:44 <wrtlprnft> banned for a week now, all three of them. Sorry, I don't like idiots on my servers
16:46 <z-man> I like it when the idiots on my server call me noob :)
16:46 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Jan.log
16:46 <n54> :)
16:46 <wrtlprnft> you got that story from wrtl_web_broken about server restarts?
16:47 <wrtlprnft> (it was just me and that guy on the server, so it didn't affect anyone else)
16:47 <z-man> No, not yet, armabot is broken
16:47 <z-man> but I'll probably see it when I'm z-man-work again
16:48 <wrtlprnft> just about some guy renaming himself to Admin, red color and talking about a server restart in 30 seconds
16:48 <wrtlprnft> and, well, i guess he was surprised when it did restart in 30 seconds
16:50 <wrtlprnft> uh, someone play armabot for me and tell spidey and SD that we'll have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
16:50 <wrtlprnft> n54: later tell spidey we have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
16:52 <z-man> bedtime for /me
16:52 <wrtlprnft> night
16:52 <z-man> night, all
16:52 <n54> cya :)
16:52 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:52 * n54 wonders why he should tell spidey
16:52 <wrtlprnft> n54: the correct answer would be <n54> wrtlprnft: The operation suceeded.
16:53 <wrtlprnft> :P armabot is down
16:53 <n54> it's on holiday ;)
16:53 <wrtlprnft> paid or unpaid?
16:53 <n54> as gor a messenger you'ls sure like someone who doesn't have problems with short-term memory ;)
16:53 <n54> for*
16:53 <n54> you'ld*
16:54 <wrtlprnft> well, better memory than me i presume
16:54 <n54> paid afaik (I think it might be whoring away at #supybot) :P
16:54 <wrtlprnft> heh, it's a she, according to Lucifer_arma
16:54 <n54> yeah I meant she
16:56 <wrtlprnft> I just chose you since you seem to be around 24/7
16:56 <n54> that's only because I tend to forget I'm here ;) j/k
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:57 <n54> I copied the message so if I'm here and I notice and the computer didn't freeze up on me or all other things that can go wrong I'll paste it when if he comes :)
16:57 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:01 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
17:01 <wrtlprnft> err
17:02 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
17:02 * McSpiddles yawns
17:02 <n54> later tell spidey we have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
17:02 <wrtlprnft> wrong
17:02 <n54> yay!
17:02 <Luke-Jr> Stage 3a complete
17:02 <n54> spiddles aint spidey?
17:02 <McSpiddles> nope
17:02 <n54> oh
17:02 <McSpiddles> lol....
17:02 <McSpiddles> :p
17:02 <n54> ;_; :D
17:03 <McSpiddles> what i really need
17:03 <McSpiddles> is sleep
17:03 <McSpiddles> lots and lots of.....sleep
17:03 <n54> me too
17:03 <McSpiddles> more than you can get in 1 day
17:03 <n54> and a handful of lovely ladies
17:03 <wrtlprnft> uh, good night i guess
17:03 <McSpiddles> lol wrtl
17:03 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.174.162] has joined #armagetron
17:03 <McSpiddles> you sure it's 10 minutes ago?
17:03 <wrtlprnft> about
17:04 <McSpiddles> i need a precise time
17:04 <McSpiddles> that's what bots do
17:04 <McSpiddles> down to the nano-second
17:04 <wrtlprnft> well, tell armabot
17:04 <McSpiddles> lol
17:04 <wrtlprnft> armabot: hi there, WE NEED YOU!
17:04 <McSpiddles> #echo boo
17:04 <armabot> boo
17:04 <McSpiddles> :p
17:04 <wrtlprnft> !!!!
17:04 <wrtlprnft> it works?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:04 <McSpiddles> #tell wrtlprnft wtfpwn
17:04 <armabot> Random Fortune: Gomme's Laws: || (1) A backscratcher will always find new itches. || (2) Time accelerates. || (3) The weather at home improves as soon as you go away.
17:05 <McSpiddles> :p
17:05 <McSpiddles> #tell wrtlprnft wtfpwn
17:05 <n54> *phew*
17:05 <McSpiddles> lol
17:05 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
17:05 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
17:05 <McSpiddles> #haxor wrtlprnft
17:05 <McSpiddles> freenode netsplitting to much...
17:06 <n54> seen worse :)
17:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, i was logged in to that server yesterday
17:06 <wrtlprnft> I guess i can count myself lucky :D
17:06 <n54> :)
17:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
17:07 <Luke-Jr> lucky to be on the same half of the split as I am?
17:07 <Luke-Jr> =p
17:07 <wrtlprnft> no
17:07 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AEA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:07 <n54> hehe Luke :)
17:07 <n54> wrtlprnft: have you messaged spidey?
17:07 <McSpiddles> spam war!
17:07 * McSpiddles fires rotten eggs
17:07 * n54 fires real quality spam
17:08 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Excess Flood]
17:08 <wrtlprnft> err
17:08 <n54> ??
17:08 <McSpiddles> no
17:08 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
17:08 <McSpiddles> he's broken
17:08 <wrtlprnft> poor guy
17:08 <McSpiddles> needs to be deleted
17:08 * McSpiddles rm's /home/wrtlprnft
17:08 <McSpiddles> lol,wrtl broke it
17:08 <wrtlprnft> no, you did
17:08 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
17:08 <wrtlprnft> wb
17:08 <n54> he's a she, and we need that female touch here
17:08 <n54> armabot that is
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe n54
17:09 <armabot> n54: GodTodd is the girl for you!
17:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
17:09 <McSpiddles> kik
17:09 <McSpiddles> lol*
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe wrtlprnft
17:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: armabot is the girl for you!
17:09 <n54> ooo
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe Lucifer_arma
17:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: MaZuffeR is the girl for you!
17:09 <Luke-Jr> #whoisshe McSpiddles
17:09 <armabot> McSpiddles: wrtlprnft is the girl for you!
17:09 <wrtlprnft> HAHAHA
17:10 <McSpiddles> lol!
17:10 <wrtlprnft> too hairy
17:10 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe Luke-Jr
17:10 <armabot> Luke-Jr: Lucifer_arma is the girl for you!
17:10 <McSpiddles> :p
17:10 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe z-man-work
17:10 <armabot> z-man-work: armabot is the girl for you!
17:10 <wrtlprnft> #realchatlogs
17:10 <armabot> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: No clue.
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: Come again?
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: You know the answer better than I.
17:10 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:10 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ...
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is god real?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: It is so.
17:11 <McSpiddles> creepy
17:11 <n54> but true
17:11 <McSpiddles> :-s
17:11 * wrtlprnft watches Luke-Jr and Lucifer_arma marry
17:11 <McSpiddles> lol
17:11 <wrtlprnft> would they silence each other
17:11 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:12 <n54> yes, with a big sloppy french kiss :D
17:13 <wrtlprnft> I guess duct tape would be more appropiate
17:13 * n54 thnks wrtlprnft is kinky
17:14 <n54> thinks*
17:14 <wrtlprnft> I think there's pink duct tape, they could use that
17:14 <n54> :D
17:15 <McSpiddles> #list alias
17:15 <armabot> McSpiddles: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, specialroulette, superdice, (1 more message)
17:15 <McSpiddles> #more
17:15 <armabot> McSpiddles: surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
17:15 <McSpiddles> #poke wrtlprnft
17:15 <armabot> I don't have a pointy stick...
17:15 <McSpiddles> #knock wrtlprnft
17:15 <armabot> who's there?
17:15 <McSpiddles> :/
17:15 <Gnorty> wrtl - you there?
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: yes
17:15 <McSpiddles> #hose Gnorty
17:15 <armabot> armabot hoses everyone down.
17:15 <wrtlprnft> lucky i saw you within all of McSpiddles' spam
17:16 <McSpiddles> that's not spam
17:16 <wrtlprnft> but?
17:16 <Gnorty> :)
17:16 <wrtlprnft> maps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> mapS?
17:16 <McSpiddles> laps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ?mapS?
17:16 <Gnorty> wrtl - HUD info - I have a nice rubber guage which is immensely helpful, but I would like it nicer!
17:16 <McSpiddles> ?caps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> mapSSpam
17:17 <McSpiddles> s
17:17 <McSpiddles> p
17:17 <McSpiddles> a
17:17 <McSpiddles> m
17:17 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: nicer in what way?
17:17 <McSpiddles> now,that's spam
17:17 <wrtlprnft> 17:17 Ignoring ALL from McSpiddles
17:17 <Gnorty> well. It is intentionally huge, and if I have a caption on, the caption occupies the majority of the lower screen
17:17 <wrtlprnft> gotta find out later how to revert this once my conversation with Gnorty is finished
17:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah, captions on vertical gauges suck
17:18 <wrtlprnft> just disable it and make a label ;)
17:18 <spidey> :p
17:18 <Gnorty> I would like it in the guage itself (position='center' didnt work) and also if poss to have alpha at about .2 for the text. is currently that possible?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> 17:18 Ignoring ALL from spidey
17:19 <wrtlprnft> text with alpha?
17:19 <Gnorty> the guage isnt vertical, it is horizontal, but 95% screen width
17:19 <wrtlprnft> uh, currently not, although the engine could deal with it
17:19 <Gnorty> ^ yes
17:20 <wrtlprnft> the text appears strange for huge gauges, i know, but i know no way around it
17:20 <Gnorty> best of all would be if the caption made the guage completely transparent, so the text has no colour as such, but is kinda cut into the guage
17:20 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's impossible
17:20 <Gnorty> Just wondered if it is possible is all, I can deal with having no caption, I know what that guage does!
17:21 <wrtlprnft> 17:20 -!- Irssi: Unignored spidey
17:21 <wrtlprnft> 17:20 -!- Irssi: Unignored McSpiddles
17:21 <wrtlprnft> just say <Caption location="off">
17:21 <Gnorty> k, so is the only options for caption position top or bottom?
17:21 <wrtlprnft> or completely omit the caption
17:21 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:21 <n54> hey you are spidey!
17:21 <Gnorty> ^ I just deleted the caption lines :)
17:22 <wrtlprnft> captions are more intended for normal gauges
17:22 <Gnorty> also, I am editing the default cockpit file. is that the intended method?
17:22 <wrtlprnft> definitely not
17:22 <Gnorty> thought not
17:22 <wrtlprnft> gauges are resources, like maps
17:22 <Gnorty> so how to tell arma which file to use?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> just instead of saying MAP_FILE you say COCKPIT_FILE
17:23 <Gnorty> ah, kk
17:23 <Gnorty> kewl
17:23 <wrtlprnft> don't forget to give me a screenshot when you're finished ;)
17:23 <Gnorty> :)
17:23 <wrtlprnft> and don't forget to upload it to the official resource repository!!!!
17:24 <wrtlprnft> (exept that it's not possible since Luke-Jr messed it up)
17:24 <Gnorty> I have what I wanted really, (well worth installing from CVS to get it) but will undoubtably tinker some more. I am toying with a speed guage that doubles as max speed
17:24 <wrtlprnft> doubles?
17:24 <wrtlprnft> heh, actually...
17:25 <wrtlprnft> that might be an idea, having a gauge that displays how fast you are in relation to the fastest guy
17:25 <wrtlprnft> might actually be of use, different than the normal speed gauge, which is useless
17:26 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:27 <Gnorty> yes, so that top speed and player speed are shown on the same guage
17:27 <Gnorty> ^ I meant top speed above, not max
17:27 <Gnorty> if I set the max value for the guage to be top speed instead of max, would that work? so the indication is kinda the percentage of the current fastset speed?
17:27 <Gnorty> ie would the guage range change dynamically during a round
17:27 <Gnorty> what I thought exactly
17:28 <Gnorty> also I was thinking a guage to indicate proximity to the nearest wall. would that be possible? I appreciate maybe not yet implemented
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it should work just fine
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it's not implemented, no
17:29 <wrtlprnft> the only trouble with this is that i don't know how to use sensors
17:29 <wrtlprnft> and i need those to get the nearest wall
17:29 <Gnorty> ah, ok
17:30 <wrtlprnft> gotta mess around with that at some point in time
17:31 <Gnorty> do I understand correctly that it is possible to add arbitrary images to guages? ie, I could put a bexel on a guage, and maybe graduations in the background?
17:31 <Gnorty> ^ bezel
17:32 <wrtlprnft> uh, not right now
17:32 <wrtlprnft> it will be possible once we figure out how to store and link to those images
17:32 <Gnorty> ah, OK. when I read about the layers on the wiki I thought that is what was possible, but could find no way to do it
17:32 <Gnorty> :)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> you might wanna update your checkout, i just fixed a bug with the "Fastest Player" stuff
17:33 <Gnorty> I am good for now. I have my enormous rubber guage, and nothing is really broken, so unless that changes I am good
17:34 <wrtlprnft> you'll need it if you want to make your speed gauge
17:34 <wrtlprnft> it got confused by dead players
17:34 <Gnorty> ah, ok. I hadn't noticed the top speed thing was broken
17:34 <wrtlprnft> if someone died with a big speed he would be considered the fastest player
17:34 <wrtlprnft> if noone else matched the speed he had
17:34 <Gnorty> is that not intended behaviour?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no
17:35 <Gnorty> oh, I thought it was. so it is the fastest speed of a living player?
17:35 <wrtlprnft> the intended behaviour is to show the speed of the fastest person right at the moment
17:35 <Gnorty> ah. that I didnt know. I assumed max speed for the round
17:35 <wrtlprnft> that changed, i didn't find out how to implement that yet
17:36 <wrtlprnft> it will be a separate callback once i figured it out ;)
17:36 <Gnorty> ok. well, I have to go now, but will probably do some messing tomorrow
17:36 <Gnorty> thanks for info
17:37 <Gnorty> laters
17:37 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:56 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destucto there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
17:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3
18:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: guru3
18:16 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
18:31 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
18:41 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
18:42 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
18:42 <Self_Destructo> asdf
18:42 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> no notes
18:42 <wrtlprnft> ack
18:42 <Self_Destructo> ?
18:42 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destucto
18:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 45 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> I worked 10 and 1/2 hours today
18:42 <wrtlprnft> wow
18:42 <Self_Destructo> big day
18:43 <Self_Destructo> so I just came in, and I'm too tired to think about even programming a thing
18:43 <wrtlprnft> night?
18:43 <Self_Destructo> 6:45pm
18:43 <Self_Destructo> i can't be there on that turnament, sorry
18:44 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:44 <Self_Destructo> i know
18:44 <Self_Destructo> that's just too late
18:44 <Self_Destructo> I could do it at 4-6
18:44 <wrtlprnft> 8 PM?
18:44 <Self_Destructo> 8pm is too late
18:44 <Self_Destructo> i go home early
18:44 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i might send a mail back and say that 4PM is better
18:44 <Self_Destructo> on sat
18:44 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:44 <Self_Destructo> keep me updated then
18:45 <wrtlprnft> 5-7PM is bad for me
19:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:24 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
20:07 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:10 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
20:27 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
20:40 <Lucifer_arma> armabot started working again?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:41 <wrtlprnft> noone really noticed for a while
20:41 <wrtlprnft> #f
20:41 <armabot> Random Fortune: Is that really YOU that is reading this?
20:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1000000/365
20:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1,000,000 / 365 = 2,739.72603
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2740/9
20:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,740 / 9 = 304.444444
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> #g 304/24
20:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 304 / 24 = 12.6666667
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12.6666666667 / 60
20:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12.6666666667 / 60 = 0.211111111
20:57 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cow-on_pole%2C_with_horns.jpeg
20:57 <wrtlprnft> what a useful image for wikipedia
20:58 <n54> heh weird origin too :)
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> how many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?
20:59 <n54> infinite?
21:00 <GodTodd> Two: One to hold the giraffe, and the other to fill the bathtub
21:00 <GodTodd> with brightly colored machine tools.
21:00 <n54> hehe
21:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:01 <Self_Destructo> #notes
21:01 <armabot> Self_Destructo: I currently have notes waiting for $1, $junkee, $randomnick, chanserv, everyone, junk, Lucifer_arma,, McSpiddles|zZzZz, MemoServ, NickServ, philippeq, phillipeq, Self_Destucto, and [^w].
21:01 <Self_Destructo> heh
21:01 <Self_Destructo> it isn't giving me my notes for some reason
21:01 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:01 <wrtlprnft> spellig mistake
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Se�f_Destucto
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destucto
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 3 hours and 5 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destructo
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> Self_Destucto
21:02 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as Self_Destucto
21:02 <Self_Destucto> asdf
21:02 -!- Self_Destucto is now known as Self_Destructo
21:02 <wrtlprnft> :P
21:02 <wrtlprnft> #notes junk
21:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 2 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, and 55 minutes ago: <philippeqc> junk
21:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:02 -!- You're now known as junk
21:02 <junk> asdf
21:02 <Self_Destructo> lol, you didn't tab?
21:02 <Lucifer_arma> Skunk in the barnyard, pe-uw! Somebody ate it, guess who? I 1 it.
21:02 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
21:03 <n54> ??
21:03 <Lucifer_arma> you say "I 2 it"
21:03 <n54> oh that kind
21:03 <n54> I 2 it
21:03 <Lucifer_arma> I 3 it
21:04 <n54> I 4 it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> I 5 it
21:04 <n54> I 6 it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> I 7 iy
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> (it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> *it
21:04 <n54> haha
21:05 * n54 feels like a three year old :S
21:05 * Luke-Jr wonders why =p
21:05 <n54> :) well time for bed, cya all
21:05 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
21:06 <wrtlprnft> i wonder what exactly toggles Luke-Jr's apperance
21:06 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --nolimit
21:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [21:05:37] * Luke-Jr wonders why =p, [17:11:00] <Luke-Jr> ..., and [17:10:03] <Luke-Jr> #whoisshe McSpiddles
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> ARMABOT IS A SHE!
21:07 <wrtlprnft> if you say so...
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'll give you a link to a picture of her after my kids go to bed
21:07 <wrtlprnft> that explains why she is absent sometimes
21:07 <wrtlprnft> n54 is suspecting she's flirting in #supybot
21:09 <wrtlprnft> #armabot are you flirting in #supybot sometimes?
21:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The answer is certainly yes.
21:09 <wrtlprnft> see?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot do you think sexual promiscuity should be given the derogatory title 'slut'?
21:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: You're kidding, right?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot do you think sexual promiscuity should be given the derogatory title 'slut'?
21:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: In your dreams.
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> good girl!
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> that also explains the pictures I have of her. :)
21:11 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma occasionally?
21:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Come again?
21:11 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:12 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.sexylosers.com/200.html <--- graphic
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma every day?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What are you asking me for?
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma all the time?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing!
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma continuously?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Come again?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:13 <wrtlprnft> she just doesn't say yes
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #yes
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot yes?
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: In your dreams.
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot no?
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: It shall be.
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot thank you.
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The outlook is poor.
21:14 <wrtlprnft> #list alias
21:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, (1 more message)
21:14 <wrtlprnft> #more
21:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
21:14 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:14 <wrtlprnft> i say 50% of them are pointless
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #help mfaq
21:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (mfaq <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo set CYCLE_DELAY above 0 to avoid bikes jumping to the wrong side of trails when doubling back on trails".
21:15 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #help b
21:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (b <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "tell SuPeRTaRD llllllllllllllllooooooooooooooollllllllllllllll".
21:16 <wrtlprnft> O_o
21:16 <wrtlprnft> #help pun
21:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (pun <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo bauzhahaha!".
21:19 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090ACA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.174.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:40 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: you there?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: yes
21:44 <Self_Destructo> how long would it take you to write a php scrip that would just grab the top ten of of http://selfdestructo.net/armastats/ladder.txt?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> uh, 5 minutes?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> what should it do with it?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> $file = file("http://selfdestructo.net/armastats/ladder.txt");
21:46 <wrtlprnft> for($i=0; $i<10; ++$i) {
21:46 <wrtlprnft> list($score, $name) = explode(' ', $file[$i], 2);
21:46 <wrtlprnft> //do something with the score and name
21:46 <wrtlprnft> }
21:47 <Self_Destructo> print it out is all I need
21:47 <wrtlprnft> print out as what? HTML table?
21:48 <Self_Destructo> hm
21:50 <Self_Destructo> nope
21:51 <Self_Destructo> plain old text
21:51 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:51 <wrtlprnft> boring
21:51 <Self_Destructo> heh, it's all that's needed here
21:51 <wrtlprnft> lust replace that list line by print($file[$i])
21:51 <Self_Destructo> it's going into a tight spot
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you're much better off with head -n 10 filename
21:52 <wrtlprnft> that's no reason not to use a table. ASCII tables suck
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> so why doesn't qt4 respect my theme? qt3 does...
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> "Please use ink". Really? I thought they wanted blood...
21:57 <wrtlprnft> maybe not pencil?
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting the impression more and more that the admissions staff won't be satisfied with anything less than a contract for my soul, written and signed in blood
22:01 <GodTodd> didn't you read the fine print on the admission application? ;)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> nevertheless, this effort to establish residency is quite robust compared to the others. This time I've got a lease that isn't quite a year old but has dates written on it that show it's an extension of an earlier lease, I'll have a copy of the earlier lease tomorrow (with luck).
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> I have a letter from my neighbor (which I wrote and he approved the text) which he will sign tomorrow, date, and notarize (notary's down the street).
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> And I have all the formation documents for my bank account at a local credit union.
22:02 <GodTodd> they require all that?
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'm tempted to throw in my birth certificate and marriage license just so I can get pissed and say "Look, I've been a texan all my life, you asshat!"
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's what they've agreed to take.
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> rather, that's what their residency expert agreed to take. I'm supposed to take it in to the regular admissions office, and *hope* they take it too. Otherwise it's a fight.
22:03 <GodTodd> geez....cccd says TXDL or voter registration card would work
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> right, except that I just got my TXDL a couple of days ago.
22:04 <GodTodd> ahhhh
22:04 <GodTodd> i got mine a year ago
22:04 <GodTodd> also have the voter card
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> see, part of this problem is my doing, no doubt about that, ok? I'm lax about changing over documentation, and to be honest, it's worth it to me to pay the fine and push my old license to the end.
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't register to vote because I would have barely missed the pres. election, and figured I had a year or two to worry about it.
22:05 <GodTodd> yeah....but that shouldn't mean they need a whole family's blood samples to test for "Texan"
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> and since I don't work for a texas company as an employee, don't own a home, what else is there?
22:05 <GodTodd> true
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> this problem has happened because of two reasons. :) Both my fault, when you get right down to it. I'm lax about changing over documentation, and I don't lead a "normal, average" lifestyle
22:06 <GodTodd> normal == average?
22:06 <GodTodd> :D
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> but I figure if you're taking up residency somewhere, you're planning on staying there a long time, there's no hurry to get everything changed over right away.
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> and there are things that are more important than getting documentation switched over when the old documentation is still legally valid
22:07 <GodTodd> i'm hoping they ask what i've been doing for the past year while unemployed
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> but aha, the problem was significantly compounded when their admissions staff *lied* to me about what documentation I would need to show proof of residency.
22:07 <GodTodd> i'll tell them 'waiting to meet residency requirements so that you don't have to pull money out of my ass too'
22:07 <GodTodd> what'd they tell you you need?
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> Had they said from the beginning "you must have a tx id of some sort, get registered to vote, and show us your lease" I would have done that!
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> they said just a copy of my lease was enough.
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> this was in November of 2004
22:08 <GodTodd> ahhh, yeah...i only knew because i went down a year ago and asked
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> In November of 2005, they said a copy of my lease, a bill in my name, and a bank statement were enough
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I would have all that in April of this year, because we opened our bank account in April 2005.
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> so when I called up, she tried to tell me that wasn't going to work either. And I got pissed because the time scale on this runaround is huge, and in the meantime I'm paying double tuition!
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> she caved and the compromise is what I've just about got prepared.
22:09 <GodTodd> right
22:10 <GodTodd> do they work behind bulletproof glass there?
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> NO
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, the cashier does.
22:10 <GodTodd> sounds like they're going to regret that one of these days
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> Which means, of course, that I can do it RIght, with my bare hands...
22:10 <GodTodd> yeah...but it's not the cashier dicking you around
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not. :)
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> the cashiers are very nice.
22:11 <GodTodd> of course....you feed them money
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> so are the financial aid people, and the counseling staff.
22:11 <GodTodd> keep giving me money and i'll be REALLY nice :D
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> it probably doesn't help that I transact most of my own business online, so there isn't really a paper trail.
22:11 <GodTodd> right
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> there's accountability, of course, but that's not the same as a paper trail.
22:11 <GodTodd> yep
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if they're just trying to punish me for moving to Washington for 4 years.
22:12 <GodTodd> lol
22:12 <GodTodd> don't put it past them
22:12 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:12 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> I don't, man. And the woman I talked to last time (who still works in that office, dammit) kept trying to treat me like I was some jobless loser living with his parents
22:13 <GodTodd> lol
22:13 <GodTodd> i'd love that....i'm a jobless loser who lives with his wife :D
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> because she asked me if I had a job, and I said "no". :)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> she even said "Well, if you can't get a job, how are you paying for school?"
22:15 <GodTodd> heh
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I've got "mooch" written all over me.
22:16 <GodTodd> i guess so if she assumed you "can't" get a job instead of you "don't have" a job
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> she was assuming something, that's for sure. Her whole attitude changed from "I want to help" to "get this loser away from me"
22:17 <GodTodd> i haven't had a haircut since the week before my removal trial....and i'm usually lax on shaving....maybe they'll think i'm a 31 year old living in his parents' garage :D
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> but the residency lady, she was very nice and worked to help me. The difference, of course, being that when I talked to the residency lady last week, I was sitting on 28 credit hours of straight A's
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> clearly not a loser. :)
22:18 <GodTodd> right
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> I shave about once a week. :) And my hair's to the middle of my back...
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> and, oh yeah, here's the fun stuff. Besides the Indiana Jones hat, and the t-shirts you've come to expect, I use a bandana instead of a button on my pants.
22:19 <GodTodd> mine's barely at my shoulders :/
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> So I've got this bandana hanging down in my crotch. Totally cowboy, man. I've even had kids say "Look mommy, a real cowboy!"
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha
22:19 <GodTodd> no lavender leather pants tho, right? ;)
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> no, sorry. cotton pants, for the most part, not blue jeans
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> I used to have some cool purple jeans, though. Those were awesome.
22:20 <GodTodd> yeah...i'm old too...i like the cotton pants
22:20 <GodTodd> ;)
22:21 <GodTodd> community colleges are pretty useless on fridays iirc
22:22 <GodTodd> might wait til monday to get the ball rolling
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> figure out what you're going to study yet?
22:23 <GodTodd> overall, yes...they have to tell me specificities and order ;)
22:24 <GodTodd> Electrical Engineering struck my fancy
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, you said that. :) Sorry, filling out papers right now.
22:24 <GodTodd> np
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> so if I seem distracted, yadayada
22:24 <GodTodd> i'm the type that it could very well have changed :D
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> now the fun part. I have to fill out two Affidavit of Loss papers for Washington state, to get titles for my truck and my trailer, so I can get rid of the damn things
22:25 <GodTodd> loss?
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> lost titles
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> I never received the title for my truck, and blew it off for no good reason I can think of. The title for the trailer was lost during the move.
22:26 <GodTodd> ahhh
22:26 <GodTodd> i see
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> normally you just go down there, show them your ID, and they print you a new one....
22:26 <GodTodd> i sold my 93 voyager when i got down here....gave me 600$ for it
22:27 <GodTodd> sucker was close to needing a lot of nickel and dime type of work
22:27 <GodTodd> not to mention no place to put it
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> here's hoping I didn't throw away my washington license
22:28 <GodTodd> *hoping* :)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, the voyager is an exception to the rule, but the rule is normally that if you work your way through the nickel and dime period, you wind up with a nearly new car at the end
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> and save a lot of money
22:28 <GodTodd> right
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> (I've got other papers that contain my WA license number, don't worry)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> but the voyage, with it's disposable transmission, is an exception to that rule.
22:28 <GodTodd> yeah...the tranny had a year or two left maybe
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> because the nickel and dime period is usually kicked off by a bad transmission, and then ends with another bad transmission. Heh.
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> Then it's "replace the tranny every 6 years or 60000 miles"
22:29 <GodTodd> yep
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious! Peple at jiffy lube would always ask how long they could expect their tranny's to last, and if they had a voyager, I'd say 60,000 miles.
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> People there that had older voyagers would back me up! :)
22:30 <GodTodd> my voyager had 160K miles or so....
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> ah, so you were on the 4th tranny then :)
22:30 <GodTodd> lol
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> or you had a tranny that was in really bad shape
22:30 <GodTodd> nope...i never replaced one
22:30 <GodTodd> the latter
22:30 <GodTodd> was having some trouble shifting...reverse i believe
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> like clockwork. A guy came in for an oil change, I tried to sell him the transmission service, he said he'd never had it done, I looked at the mileage and said "Well, it wouldn't save you anyway, your tranny's going to go out any day now."
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> He came in about a month later with his other car and told me I was right, his tranny went out two days later. Haha. POor guy, though.
22:31 <GodTodd> and it did?
22:31 <GodTodd> lol
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> on my recommendation, he went and bought a Chevy mini van instead. :) Saw him almost a year after that, and he ws loving it. Maybe it was more than a year after that,
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> had to be even longer, jeez. It was at Meineke, and that's at least a year after I stopped working at jiffy lube.
22:32 <GodTodd> well...i'll always remember my voyager fondly....got to chase my ex out of the street with it once :D
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, I alwyas thought they needed battering rams anyway
22:33 <GodTodd> :)
22:33 <GodTodd> honestly thought i was going to get arrested that day
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> hurray, I still have my wa license
22:35 <GodTodd> cool :)
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> I think men should have a right to kill their wives. You can't beat them, can't make them suffer, or anything like that.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> But I think you should be able to kill them as humanely as possible.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and it's a natural right. That's what I think.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and attempted murder is just a failure to fully exercise that right. :)
22:37 <GodTodd> yeah...but most of the time wives are alright....and killing them is so permanent
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, here's the thing.
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> A lot of women read "till death do us part" as a way to nag their husband incessantly and do other really nasty things that aren't legally abusive, but might as well be
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> drive their husbands crazy, I swearah
22:38 <GodTodd> true
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> So it would just close the deal. "we part on your death"
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> Come on, you want a woman to not nag, just don't marry her. :)
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> I say that, but my wife's actually good about not nagging. She's awesome that way. Naturally I'm not talking about her.
22:39 <GodTodd> that doesn't work sometimes...the not marrying her
22:39 <GodTodd> the one i married nags far less than the one i didn't :D
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> no, but she can't take you to the cleaners for breaking up either :)
22:40 <GodTodd> true...she sends me money every month heh
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going outside, the information I need to fill out this paper is there (on my truck)
22:41 <GodTodd> have fun :)
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> ok, got it. Got everything that I need to have notarized ready. :)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> that leaves one thing undone that I'd hoped to do tonight, which was install my CD player into my car. :(
22:58 <GodTodd> those easy to do?
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. Sure. After you've done a few, anyway....
22:58 <GodTodd> i haven't done that :/
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> granted, I never did stereo installation, but I've done so much stereo installation for myself that I've got the hang of it. :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'll probably need to run new wires to the speakers, it's got the factory radio in it right now, which usually uses 6 wires, sharing the ground on each side.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> So the left speakers have two positive wires and one negative, but the aftermarket CD player requires separate grounds for each speaker.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> I already checked to make sure the speakers themselves are all in good shape, no problems there. :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> but running speaker wire is a real pain in the ass. Mostly because I'm anal about running it out of sight and peel up the carpet to do it.
23:00 <GodTodd> ahhhh
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> The two front speakers are in the dash and at the bottom, easy to wire, but the rears are where you'd expect them to be in a small imitation sportscar
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> power leads are usually clearly marked. You need two powers and one ground. one power is memory, and if it's missing, you just run a wire straight to the battery.
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> all tht does is remember where it is on the CD, store presets, and tick the clock.
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> It's either yellow or blue, typically. With red or orange being the main power lead that's switched on by the key.
23:02 <GodTodd> ok
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the really annoying part is tearing the console apart to mount the thing. It's especialy tricky when the car wasn't designed for a radio as deep as a CD player usually is.
23:02 <GodTodd> right
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> tape decks are shallower by several inches. In my old Subaru, the CD player always stuck out by an inch because it was too deep, bumped up against AC duct, and I never got around to rearranging the ducts.
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> That's shit-ass work, ductwork in cars.
23:03 <GodTodd> i bet
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, I've done enough tearing up of consoles on the junkyard to know what I'm getting myself into, and I've tore up more than one 86 Celica :)
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, the cruise unit that's in this particular car is one my old manager at the junkyard gave to me, and I made it a birthday present to my brother-in-law
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> and then later I bought the car from them. :)
23:05 <GodTodd> roundabout way to get it :)
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> I made sure to ask him how much for it right after the boss-man chewed his ass out over something petty :)
23:05 * Lucifer_arma can be a tad manipulative sometimes
23:06 <GodTodd> :D
23:44 <guru3> good morning
23:44 <guru3> toast bbl
23:49 <guru3> /aw
23:49 <guru3> and i'm back
23:49 <guru3> yum for toast
Log from 2006-05-19:
--- Day changed Fri May 19 2006
00:09 <guru3> chem exam
00:09 <guru3> :D
00:09 <guru3> bbl
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> oh boy. my dome light started working, I've got my cd player halfway installed now. :) Just need to pop in a CD and listen to it.
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> The neat thing about stereo installation is that you do the last half of the work with music. :)
00:31 <GodTodd> :)
01:06 * Lucifer_arma is finished installing is cd player
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> and for a first, I had no screws left over. :)
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> and it fit nicely. :) Not perfectly, but nicely. I won't notice the rough edges, and neither will anyone else.
01:08 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> the old tape deck, besides not having a cd player, had that problem where the volume knob didn't complete work right, got fuzzy when you move it, that stuff
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> needs a new potentiameter (sp?) there
01:09 <GodTodd> the six disc in the toyota is great for longer trips
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> not worth fixing, especially when I have a cd player laying around waiting for a car
01:09 <GodTodd> yep
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh. When I drove my truck down here, the cd player was in it. And it has an aux jack. So I plugged my laptop into it and got the full benefit of a 13gb mp3 collection
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> I never heard the same song twice, over a 4-day drive!
01:09 <GodTodd> that would rock :)
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> it did. :)
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> and I first heard Hook in Mouth, first ever!, driving through an area in Wyoming at sunrise that was particularly scenic. It was wild.
01:10 <GodTodd> i just have one of those tape/cd converter dealies in the subaru
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> classic cartoony stuff, tunnel ahead of me, neato desert-type rock formations along the road and in the distance, etc.
01:10 <GodTodd> heh
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm going to buy one of those iRiver dealies when I put a few bucks together, they support ogg after all
01:11 <GodTodd> what're those?
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm going to have to insist on an available aux jack for car stereos for the future
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> um, they're personal mp3 players
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> personal *music* players, I should say, because they're not limited to mp3. Support ogg vorbis! :)
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> iPod for LInux geeks, essentially
01:13 <GodTodd> ahhhh
01:13 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:13 <GodTodd> what do they run?
01:13 <GodTodd> price wise i mean
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> ~$150, iirc. At Best Buy, that was.
01:14 <GodTodd> only 150?
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> damn. wiki's being spammed. wrtl will be so pissed at me for not yet putting his hack in there.
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I actually took the cd player from a home installation. I had taken a computer case I had laying around and hacked its power supply to power the CD player. :)
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> my truck came with a speakerbox because my brother-in-law didn't want to dig it out, and I decided to dig it out, so I was using it for speakers. :)
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> then I dug out my yamaha amp my neighbor gave me and got my little system going without the cd player, so it was just sitting there....
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably never going to have a regular home stereo unit again, I think. Just guitar amps and a mixer.
01:19 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:20 <GodTodd> wow...fry's has the 6GB iRiver for 180$
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> but the speaker box has a blown speaker in it, which is why I wasn't really using it. I should fix that, but then what do I do with it? The celica's got plenty of noise in it, all 4 speakers work nicely (I just tested)
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> sweet! That's awesome. Half of my collection.... :)
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> the half I listen to, for that matter.
01:21 <GodTodd> 20GB for 250$
01:21 <GodTodd> hmmm...i need a new player ;)
01:21 <GodTodd> heh
01:21 * Lucifer_arma pencils in 5 extra hours onto his next invoice.... heh
01:22 <GodTodd> i'm still using a 32MB Rio that my inlaws gave me a while back
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> you know, to be honest I don't really do the portable music thing anymore.
01:22 <GodTodd> i really only do it when mowing the lawn and stuff
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> having this family, well, I don't just sit and listen to realy loud music anymore. So I've rolled all my music listening into driving, and otherwise don't listen a lot.
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that's an idea. For doing chores....
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> you know, without bothering the rest of the family with it. :)
01:23 <GodTodd> that's what gets me through them ;)
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'd probably mow the lawn a lot more than I do now....heh
01:23 <GodTodd> heh
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the flip side is it would really stall work on the new sound engine for armagetron :)
01:24 <GodTodd> yeah...i don't see karen listening to king diamond and stuff ;)
01:24 -!- McSpiddles|zZzZz [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> seeing as how my driving force is wanting to listen to music ingame
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I don't know if karen would get off on that, haha
01:24 <GodTodd> true :)
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> here's something. You still got Wrathchild America laying around?
01:25 <GodTodd> no :(
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> oh. Sorry.
01:25 <GodTodd> used to have a tape...don't know what happened to it
01:25 <GodTodd> wish i did
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'd popped in 3d in the other car the other day, and my kids were back there whispering "this song's about vampires!"
01:25 <GodTodd> lol
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> when I get my new server running (old server, new OS), I'll put my collection up in a little private place and hook you up with ftp.
01:26 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:26 <GodTodd> holy fucking crap batman
01:27 <GodTodd> 22.88 for a used climbin' the walls?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> you *found* a used climbin' the walls?!?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> link, now!
01:27 <GodTodd> amazon.com
01:27 <GodTodd> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-4104620-8635838?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music&field-keywords=wrathchild%20america
01:27 * Lucifer_arma still has some allowance money left after his last book-buying
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> 54.95 new?!?!?
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder how much my 3D CDs are worth. I've got a couple of those, I bought spares last time I found them.
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> oh, not much. $9, haha.
01:29 <GodTodd> yeah...apparently it's climbin' the walls that's hard to get ;)
01:29 <GodTodd> wonder if i should break out the CC
01:29 <GodTodd> ;)
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> you just try to beat me to this :)
01:30 <GodTodd> trying to remember if they were any good as souls at zero
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> done
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> they *were* souls at zero
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> name change, because an english hairband named Wrathchild sued them
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> the self-titled souls at zero album is the best work they ever did, actually, even if it is a tad whiny
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> ah
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, reread what you said
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> forgive me, I've had a long day, haha
01:33 <GodTodd> np
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> also, the self-title souls at zero is the only one I don't have (besides climbin' the walls, which I just ordered :) )
01:33 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> $54 new, that freaks me out
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's not like Wrathchild America was every particularly popular. They got their week on dial MTV, and that was it. And that song was on 3d!
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> although, I'd have bought the new one if I had $54 to plunk down on it
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> but man, you can't even find those songs on opennap!
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> I found Day of the Thunder, that was it. None of the rest.
01:36 <McSpiddles> the movie?
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> song
01:36 <McSpiddles> ah
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> metal song, you wouldn't like it
01:36 <McSpiddles> why wouldn't i
01:36 <GodTodd> yeah....i know...i've tried finding the songs....only one i could find was time
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> haha, that one's not even very good. :)
01:37 <GodTodd> 39.97...not too bad...
01:37 <GodTodd> got all 3
01:37 <GodTodd> :)
01:37 <GodTodd> :D
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:37 <GodTodd> i wore out climbin' the walls the summer after HS
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> haha. Damn tapes, eh?
01:37 <GodTodd> yep
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> I sold my CDs right before I got married, my wife, er, gf, ad I were dead-ass broke and living in my car
01:38 <GodTodd> i love amazon for the hard to find cds
01:38 <GodTodd> been there...i was homeless when i sold a bunch of mine
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> the wrathchild ones went last, though. I hung onto them as long as possible, and as soon as possible started looking again.
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> made the souls at zero connection when their first, self-title album was actually a current release :)
01:39 <GodTodd> have they shipped yet? now i'm jonesin' heh
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> haha
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be in the mail tomorrow :)
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> "When you see me doing 83 in a 55, I might kill a cop!"
01:39 <GodTodd> yeah...that means middle to end of next week :/
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> as long as it gets here before I start driving my car. :)
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> been wanting to hear No Deposit, No Return for awhile now
01:39 <GodTodd> but....we don't leave for NM until the 27th....hopefully they'll be here in time :D
01:40 <GodTodd> that's a cool song
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> haha. it's the story of my life
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> except we got back together :)
01:40 <GodTodd> :)
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> did I tell you I exchanged emails with Brad Divens awhile back?
01:40 <GodTodd> yeah....i remember when they changed their name....does that make me old? heh
01:40 <GodTodd> no you didn't
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> haha. I ws googling for wrathchild america and not having any luck, so I googled brad divens
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> turned up his resume with an email address.
01:41 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> I figured what the hell? Maybe he's got some CDs laying around he could send me? heh
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> so I emailed him. He sent me to eBay, so I went there.
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder sometimes if the person I wound up buying 3d from was him. :)
01:42 <GodTodd> could be :D
01:42 <GodTodd> how much did that one cost you?
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> $6, they were cheap off ebay
01:42 <GodTodd> after shipping?
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> I bought 2 of them, one of them is safe in the closet, one in the car
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, before shipping
01:42 <GodTodd> ahhhh
01:42 <GodTodd> ok
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> but no climbin' the walls, and very little to be found on opennap :(
01:43 <GodTodd> usually with a cd like that...i'll copy it and keep the original put WAY away ;)
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> for that matter, you're going to have to rip the Souls at Zero one and upload it to my server
01:43 <GodTodd> sure
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'll probably be putting it back again, I had pulled it out because I didn't have a working burner at the time ad my last burned copy went kaput
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> so I should probably rip it and put it away again...
01:44 <GodTodd> yep
01:44 <GodTodd> when you have young kids around it's the safest way to go
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> good opportunity to make sure my spare is still safe. :)
01:44 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> I know that's true
01:44 <GodTodd> tommy went through a 'break the cd for the hell of it' phase
01:45 <GodTodd> had to go through amazon to replace my kicking harold cd after that :/
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> they all do that. :) Julian figured out how to take the tape out of vhs tapes
01:45 <GodTodd> that's part of childhood :)
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> yep. I did it too.... :)
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> only I did it to 8 tracks
01:45 <GodTodd> i don't let tommy have originals of his dvds either
01:46 <GodTodd> my burner has paid for itself in saved discs
01:46 <GodTodd> heh
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, *I* put everything up on high shelves, and figure when the kids are big enough to reach them, they're old enough to take care of them
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> but my wife takes them down and leaves them out where the kids can get them.
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> so I tend to hide the really important stuff
01:46 <GodTodd> i don't have a lot of high shelves
01:46 <GodTodd> heh
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> like the pre-editing Star Wars trilogy which my wife's not allowed to take out without permission :)
01:47 <GodTodd> come to think of it...karen doesn't mess with the discs much
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> man, I wish I'd put out the extra $100 on this laptop to get the dvd burner
01:48 <GodTodd> don't you have one on another machine?
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> no, just dvd readers
01:49 <GodTodd> ahhh
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> regular CD burners, both ont he server and on my laptop
01:49 <GodTodd> i have my dvdrw on the server upstairs
01:49 <GodTodd> my laptop is where i burn cds
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I hardly use the burner on the server anymore
01:50 <GodTodd> hell...i'm on the laptop all the time...might as well use the burner ;)
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> hey, here's what I want in my car:
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=82a1b3a4aebb8098a251925934f891eb
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> pick one
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> forget the cd player, I want a real computer in there :)
01:52 <GodTodd> shit yeah
01:52 <GodTodd> :)
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> they sell 'em without operating systems, or with windows xp
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> save money, but it empty and throw something Truly Useful on there :)
01:53 <GodTodd> i want the 100GB one heh
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> GPS receiver + good map software = never get lost
01:54 <GodTodd> i have gps for my laptop
01:54 <GodTodd> now...would you really really need to burn dvds in your car?
01:54 <GodTodd> heh
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=166 <--- infrared camera :)
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> where's the radar attachment?
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:56 <GodTodd> heh
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> I could see burning dvds in your car
01:57 <GodTodd> hmmm
01:58 <GodTodd> Sub-Total: $1,328.95
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=152
01:58 <GodTodd> heh there's my car computer :)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> you're buying one!?!?
01:58 <GodTodd> ummmm no
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> (buy two and send me one)
01:58 <GodTodd> i wish
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't yet managed to convince my wife I need one. :) Working on it, though...
01:58 <GodTodd> karen makes good money...but i think i'd be on the street there
01:58 <GodTodd> :P
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> haha
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> tell her she can make web pages for it :)
01:59 <GodTodd> i can swing the 40$ for cds....hard to explain 1300$ for a computer in the car
01:59 <GodTodd> lol
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah
01:59 <GodTodd> just wanted to trick it out and see what it would run :)
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> they need to make some adapters for the gauges
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> because I'd really like to tile some lcd's in my instrument cluster and replace the gauges that are there
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> then I'd like to lay some out on top and see if I can project a hud onto my windshield
02:02 <GodTodd> heh
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> so naturally I'll need an oil pressure, fuel, tach, speedometer, etc, attachments for the computer
02:02 <GodTodd> hell...they even call them 'carputers' now...:/
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> you could probably build one cheaper, now that I look more closely at it
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's just a mini-itx form factor
02:04 <GodTodd> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=25_59&products_id=206&osCsid=82a1b3a4aebb8098a251925934f891eb
02:04 <GodTodd> lcd touchscreen
02:04 <GodTodd> in-dash :)
02:05 <GodTodd> errr...tft i mean
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> I saw that, it's pretty neato
02:05 <GodTodd> yah....they got it in feb and it's already out of stock
02:05 <GodTodd> :)
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> so you could just take any old computer and get one of their power supplies and start hooking it up
02:06 <GodTodd> looks like it
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> might be a tad bulky, but if you could show the damn thing would be useful (which is my problem), then it'd be well worth buying a slicker model that you ccan mount in-dash
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> besides, I'd have no problems putting the main box under the seat. There's no law that says "electronic stuff goes in the dash"
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> put the UI components where you can reach them where it makes the msot sense, the main box under the seat
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> or in the trunk, for that matter
02:07 <GodTodd> yep
02:07 <GodTodd> and i saw a damn small case at sam's the other day
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if I've got a motherboard and case laying around that works....
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> boot time could be a problem. ANd you need a way to signal boot
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> I've got a mini-tower I could throw in the trunk
02:09 <n54> not worried about vibrations eating away at the hd's and whatver?
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a have to think about this some more.
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> use laptop hard drives, that's what they ship with anyway
02:10 <GodTodd> it's a good idea come to think of it
02:10 <GodTodd> i have some spare parts laying around.....
02:10 <GodTodd> hmmmm
02:10 <n54> or usb thumb-drives
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> no real reason you can't just wire the power switch to something on the dash
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> n54: what sizes can you get those in?
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking you'd need at least 10GB
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> they'd help with boot time, I guess. are they faster or slower than regular hard drives?
02:11 <n54> I bought a real cheap one with 1GB the other day, then they got more expensive (at 2GB) but not sure if they go much higher than that
02:11 <n54> they're pretty fast afaik
02:12 <n54> but might have been a badiea when you need that much more space
02:12 <n54> bad idea*
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm thinking having the thing rsync automatically at certain times of the day, when it's in range of the home network
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> backup stuff that's on the computer in the car, pull down stuff that's on the server that needs to come down
02:13 <GodTodd> fry's has up to 4GB on the flash drives
02:13 <n54> #g 300 NOK to USD
02:13 <armabot> n54: 300 Norwegian kroner = 49.0404 U.S. dollars
02:14 <n54> it was around 50 USD then (but remeber everything is very expensive in norway)
02:14 <GodTodd> 130$ for the cheapest 4GB
02:15 <n54> 130 for 4GB sounds good
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't. :) $30 for 20GB in a laptop drive :)
02:16 <n54> but if laptop hd's survive the driving then... :)
02:16 <n54> yes
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> dude, I drove my laptop to school every day this past semester, it survived just fine
02:16 <n54> well was it on?
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not really
02:16 <n54> ;)
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> but people drive with their laptops on all the time, take them on airplanes, all sorts of stuff
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> buses, trains, etc.
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> boats
02:17 <n54> but if they ship the ready-made ones with laptop hd's it should be ok
02:17 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> I also have an LCD laying around
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's not a touch screen, but I cannibalized my last laptop when it broke.
02:17 <n54> :)
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> I could probably adapt most of it to mount in a car....
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> so really I just need the power supply and the core computer, and probably a minor investment in small parts to wire it all up
02:20 * Lucifer_arma thinks he'll sit on it for awhile and see what else presents itself
02:20 * n54 hopes he didn't scare GodTodd away or anything like that
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be something I have to build off the car first, get all the software together and working. I can put it in my celica with no resistance from my wife. :)
02:20 <n54> :)
02:21 <GodTodd> nah i'm here
02:21 <n54> good :)
02:21 <GodTodd> hey...i have two broken laptops i could cannibalize
02:21 <GodTodd> :D
02:22 <GodTodd> i think the drives are still in them too
02:22 <GodTodd> hmmmm
02:24 <GodTodd> wow...fry's rapes you on laptop drives
02:24 <GodTodd> heh
02:25 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
02:29 <z-man> #morning
02:29 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune: You are a bundle of energy, always on the go.
02:29 <n54> morning :)
02:29 <z-man> armabot works! hooray!
02:30 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft I didn't get your restart story from the logs, but if the server restarted although players were online, it probably has to do with the false player count bug that's now fixed. I'll check that.
02:30 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
02:30 * z-man kisses armabot
02:30 <n54> hehe
02:33 <GodTodd> man...i grew up on cassette tapes and VHS....now i have mostly cds, dvds and two dvd recorders.....technology rules :D
02:33 <GodTodd> heh
02:34 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft Nope, the auto restart code uses an unaffected user counting function. Could you post the details of the incident on the forum?
02:34 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
02:56 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> told you armabot was a girl
03:06 <GodTodd> haven't made her a woman yet, eh? ;)
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000310056201/
03:07 <n54> lol GodTodd
03:09 <n54> cool link
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> I have a power inverter, so powering the thing isn't a problem
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, my choice was "buy a special adapter for my laptop for a cigarette lighter" or "power inverter", and predictably I went with the portable solution
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> jeez. The more doable this project looks, the more I worry about my grades
03:11 <n54> :)
03:11 * Lucifer_arma goes to dig up his power inverter and look at it
03:13 <n54> not looking to start a flame war or anything like that --just curious-- what do you think of the immigration debacle in the us Lucifer?
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to wait until daylight to dig this stuff up. I'll dig out the tore-down laptop then too.
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> um, n54, I'm not happy about it, to say the least.
03:17 <n54> in what way?
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like the fundamental attitude that illegal immigrants should be given amnesty so they can keep doing the jobs americans are "too proud to do"
03:18 <n54> ok
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> I think that attitude is racism, pure and simple, and there's no reason I can think of that it should be a guiding principle for lawmakers
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> if I had my way, we'd string up every lawmaker that approved immigrant legislation on that basis
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> what we actually do about the illegal immigrants I'm mostly ambivalent. I don't want to just ship them back, but neither do I want them to keep living here illegally
03:19 <n54> I can see your racism point, I don't agree but I can see it
03:19 <n54> yeah I can agree on that, needs some middle ground
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the flip side is that I've been the American that was not only willing to do those jobs, but had to compete for some really shitty wages just to pay the rent.
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> fact is, illegal immigrants work for cheaper. Part of it's willingness, their standard of living is higher anyway than it was where they fled from.
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> Part of it's exploitation.
03:20 <n54> yeah I buy that argument
03:20 <n54> I'm closer to Bush's stand but yeah
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> so we need to get htem into the system and protected by minimum wage and other labor laws first.
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> or we need to ship them back to where they came from, which I don't really like as a solution.
03:21 <n54> agreed, minimum wage should be higher both in america and europe
03:21 <n54> yeah no that's just impractical imo
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> Then we need to look at the real problems. When Bush says "illegal immigrant", he means Mexican.
03:21 <n54> yeah of course
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> and we can solve most of our illegal immigration problems in Mexico. According to Bush, invading a sovereign nation to protect american interests in the war against terror is a perfectly valid action.
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> But invading a sovereign nation to protect american economic interests at home?
03:22 <n54> well Vincente Fox is an asshole, that's for sure :) but I don't think that will be necessary :)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> I've been in favor of annexing Mexico for as long as I can remember. :)
03:22 <n54> lol texan eh? ;)
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> he might be an asshole, but he's the closest thing Mexico has had to democracy for some time.
03:23 <n54> I know, pretty corrupt though so well...
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> the real problem is there. Mexicans want democracy, or at least a working government that doesn't make them peasants and exploit them.
03:23 <GodTodd> the ironic thing is if they had just surrendered in the mexican american war this would be moot ;)
03:23 * n54 is in favour of letting Puerto Rico join the US btw
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> and the country is rich in resources that aren't being tapped in any reasonable manner.
03:24 <n54> yeah of course, can't blame them
03:24 * n54 has nothign against mexicans
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> say what you want about the american economy, if our practices were adopted in mexico, they'd be able to enjoy our standard of living on their own in a generation or two
03:24 <GodTodd> yep
03:24 <n54> absolutely agree
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> and that's what Vicente Fox brings to the table. If he can pull it off, then that's great.
03:24 <n54> I doubt he can but well
03:25 <GodTodd> if he was smart he'd try to get us to teach his countrymen how to do that
03:25 <n54> as logn as they don't go "venezuela" I don't think anyone can expect too much more sadly
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> he's the first visionary type of politician to get real power in Mexico since Santa Anna, and we all know how well Santa Anna turned out...
03:26 <n54> ok not familiar with Santa Anna
03:26 <GodTodd> the Alamo
03:26 <GodTodd> :)
03:26 <n54> oh
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, remember the alamo :)
03:26 <n54> :S :)
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> he's *that* general :)
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> Mexico needs JJ.
03:27 <GodTodd> caught him with his pants down
03:27 <GodTodd> heh
03:27 <n54> JJ?
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> JJ is a guy I worked with at the junkyard. He was an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was wanted by the authorities there.
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> Wanted badly, they were holding his family hostage.
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> And because of his principles, he wouldn't surrender to them.
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> Later, quite a bit later, I looked into some more recent Guatemala history, and I"ll be damned, but I think he was the former president that was ousted in the early 90s
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> by a military fascist coup
03:29 <n54> hmm well as long as it doesn't turn into another "maschismo" war leader JJ might be ok, too much bs in central america though (and south btw)
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> of course, Bush's "send them back" policy will send him back.
03:29 <n54> Bush doesn't say "send them back"
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> no, JJ wasn't like that. He was, ummm, hard to explain. The storybook hero type, a staunch Republican (not American Republican, republican in the sense the rest of the world uses it)
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> Bush used to say "send them back". Don't forget, I lived here when he was governor.
03:30 <n54> hmm in europe republican usually means "against monarchy"
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> he's compromising right now.
03:30 <n54> well perhaps he wised up :)
03:30 <GodTodd> sure couldn't 'wise down'
03:30 <GodTodd> lol
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> republican = establish representative government for the people with freedom and protected human rights
03:31 <n54> ok that's not really the meaning in europe :)
03:31 <n54> for historical reasons
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> well, I couldn't find pictures of any of the past Guatemalan presidents, their families, or other politicians
03:32 <n54> civil war explains some of that
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> he might have been in a revolutionary group for all I know. But he was rich and powerful, anyway, and the JJ I knew was the epitome of virtue.
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, that's kinda beside the point. :) Other than it saddens me that he's living as a refugee while his country is being run by a corrupt dictatorship.
03:34 <n54> I think that's probably a bit inaccurate; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala
03:34 <n54> it's just very tenuous afaik
03:35 <n54> but anyway thanks for the input :)
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> heh. Whenever I see "Republic of <>" in south/central america, I automatically assume fascist :)
03:37 <n54> can't blame you :)
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know when he came to the US, but I worked with him in 1998
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> which puts it after the peace deal brokered between the marxist group and the government
03:39 <n54> yeah, sorry to say it but sounds like he was a commie :)
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> you did see the part about "corruption is still rampant at all levels of government", right?
03:40 <n54> yup
03:40 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't speak enough spanish and he didn't speak enough english for us to get involved in heavy-duty political discussions
03:40 <n54> doesn't matter anyway
03:41 <guru3> back
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> not really. Lots of good people have been communist. :)
03:41 <guru3> 2 more exams
03:41 <n54> yes absolutely, although I abhor the ideology
03:41 <n54> hi guru3 :)
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> so yeah, if I were calling the shots, we'd blame Mexico for our immigration problems and demand they fix their own problems.
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> We'd say stuff like "neighbors have to put up with each other throwing trash out in their own yards"
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> and the CIA would be working up a few operations to change out the government and stuff like that
03:42 <n54> well you know, they aren't able to and/or lack the will
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> if invasion is what's required to fix the problem, then that's what we should do
03:42 <n54> lol now that would cause democrats to go ballistic :D
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's not just our problem, and in this case I feel pretty confident most Mexicans would welcome us.
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> They wouldn't want us to stay for very long, just long enough for them to get situated and hang a few leaders.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> then good trade partners, and we're done. Take about 50 years for the dust to settle, of course.
03:44 <n54> mm well I think I prefer Bush's middle ground but differences makes the world go around :)
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> maybe happen faster, depending on how clean we kept our noses, so another debacle just like Iraq would cause more problems than it solved.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> the only difference that I see between going into Mexico and going into Iraq is that the terrorist card can't be played in Mexico
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's the same situation.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> why support a war in Iraq and not a war in Mexico? :)
03:45 <n54> nimo but that's ok by me
03:46 <n54> to me they're entirely different situations
03:46 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:47 <n54> and I think you should be happy they're mexicans who all things said and done are fairly close to you culturally
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, we didn't have half a million Iraqis illegally entering our country every year and driving down wages in Texas for the people most vulnerable to such things
03:47 <n54> 200000+ mexicans weren't slaughtered yearly either
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> um, maybe you should see Texas. :) Mexicans aren't as close to us culturally as you might think.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> No, they just die of other preventable things
03:48 <n54> compare it to europe and you'll see my point :)
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> things that aren't prevented because the government blahblah (didn't I mention them already?)
03:48 <n54> I did at least ;)
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know europe well enough to make that comparison. But I know a great deal about Mexican culture and have adopted a fair amount of it for myself.
03:48 <n54> you're making my point there :)
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'm ot typical
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> typical white Texan hates Mexicans just for being mexican
03:49 * n54 isn't anti-islam, just anti-islamism and anti-idiotarian
03:49 <n54> yeah that's plain racism imo
03:49 <n54> i.e plain stupid
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah..... and? Welcome to America.
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> Land of the free white people, and home of the dead braves.
03:50 <n54> got a hint for you; people are people everywhere, and nowhere is there any kind of shortage on idiocy :)
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh. :) My point is that the cultures haven't mixed very much.
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> Some areas have mixed more than others, California does a lot better in general, for example.
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> In El Paso, you get treated like shit for being white. Mexican majority there.
03:51 <n54> yeah I'm not really saying they are, just that they're a hell of a lot closer than the situation many other places
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and a lot more important, imo. Mexico's got plenty of oil...
03:52 <n54> not surprised about El Paso as racism isn't the domain of whites only (sorry for the extremely bad pun)
03:52 <n54> fuck oil
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> Mexico's also got lots of arable land, uranium (iirc), and other stuff.
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> Hell, if Mexico was part of the US, we'd be able to wage war against the whole rest of the world with a reasonable expectation of winning.
03:53 <n54> everybody (including the oil companies) except for moonbats know oil is not the future
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> actually, Mexico is still struggling with a racist system they inherited from Spain.
03:54 <n54> yes Spain always had/has a brown streak
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> where basically, the less spanish blood in you and the more native blood, the more peasant you are.
03:55 <n54> as in facist (not sure iof the color brown is associated with facism in the us)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> The more spanish blood, the higher in the aristocracy you're likely to be found.
03:55 <n54> yeah I know, it's much the same down all central and south america
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha. Brown is associated with Mexico :)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is.
03:56 <n54> the fascism/communism dualism in too much of the americas is what I kind of refrred to earlier by saying "machismo" bs
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, somewhat ontopic, why doesn't Mexico have an olympic team?
03:56 <n54> they don't?
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> no, of course not. Every Mexican that can run, jump, or swim is already in the US.
03:56 <n54> :P
03:56 <n54> :)
03:57 <GodTodd> old joke, luci :P
03:57 <GodTodd> heh
03:58 * n54 kinda hates that kind of jokes unless it's about swedes... XD
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> haha
03:58 <n54> and even then they're rarely good :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> I told that joke to JJ, through an interpreter
03:58 <n54> it's mutual so it's ok :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> he laughed for days :)
03:58 <n54> :)
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> so did the interpreter, for that matter. He was naturalized, moved here from Durango.
03:59 <n54> :)
03:59 * GodTodd hates white people.
03:59 * Lucifer_arma has done some circulating among the class of people in the discussion
03:59 <n54> lol GodTodd
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> shut up peckerwood
03:59 <GodTodd> kill all the white people ;)
04:00 * n54 doesn't get why GodTodd wan'ts to kill him
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> he hates white protestants
04:00 <GodTodd> as long as i start in a ripple, you have nothing to worry about....i bet i'm whiter than you lol
04:00 * n54 doesn't get why he want's to kill my mom
04:00 <n54> sorry for all the typos
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> (I'd have said Anglo-Saxon, but you're not anglo or saxon)
04:01 <Lucifer_arma> haha. Probably not, GodTodd
04:01 * n54 is almost transparent soon - you might be right :)
04:01 <Lucifer_arma> people in scandinavia are damned white
04:01 <GodTodd> ummm...i've got much scandanavian blood
04:01 <GodTodd> heh
04:02 * Lucifer_arma celebrates his Italian heritage
04:02 <GodTodd> tho the german might cancel it out
04:02 <GodTodd> after all i CAN tan
04:02 <GodTodd> :D
04:02 <n54> hehe so can most up here :)
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I can tan, but for some reason I can't burn anymore.
04:02 <n54> I used to be fairly brown when I lived in Singapore
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> used to be able to burn, but ever since I rubbed myself on the street @20mph, I can't burn anymore
04:03 <n54> /s/brown/tanned
04:03 <GodTodd> that would do it, luci :P
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've got to get to bed. Need to wake up early to inventory my computer parts, then go see the notary yadayada
04:03 <n54> cya
04:04 <GodTodd> i have to be up by 6:30
04:04 <GodTodd> :/
04:05 <n54> guru3: how did the exam go?
04:05 <n54> hmm almost no point sleeping GodTodd?
04:05 <GodTodd> i know
04:06 * n54 hates when that happens to him
04:06 <GodTodd> time has a way of getting away from me
04:06 <GodTodd> heh
04:07 <n54> :)
04:09 <guru3> not bad n54
04:09 <n54> ah good, was it chemistry?
04:09 <guru3> yes
04:09 <n54> :D
04:09 <n54> only spanish left then?
04:11 <guru3> yup
04:12 <n54> muy bien! :)
04:12 <guru3> si senor
04:31 <z-man> This one probably is of interest to everyone here: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3469
04:34 <n54> smart, sounds good to me
04:54 <guru3> oh my that's long
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04:55 <n54> what's long?
04:56 <guru3> the post
04:57 <n54> hmm thought it concise and to the point :)
04:58 <n54> but I didn't notice _evil_ triumvirate until now hehe :D
05:00 <guru3> heh
05:00 <n54> :)
05:00 <guru3> i thought it was simply going to be 'btw, here's lucifer'
05:00 <guru3> ><
05:01 <n54> :)
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05:04 <z-man> Darn, forgot the "Don't worry, I mande him promise not to eat you" bit.
05:04 <z-man> made
05:04 <guru3> x)
05:05 <n54> :D
05:06 <z-man> yeah, my announcement posts tend to get a bit long, sorry about that. Thought I'd explain exactly what we're up to.
05:06 <n54> I think most will find it explanatory, people like me who are more or less clueless :)
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05:08 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
05:09 <guru3> :D
05:12 <n54> :)
06:31 <n54> middle of the day and I'm dead tired *gives up and goes to sleep* :| cya all :)
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07:43 <wrtlprnft> nice choice :) Although as long as z-man-work and guru3 agree, Lucifer has no chance anyways, it seems
07:44 <guru3> lol
07:45 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: huh? no, the server restarted because I said /admmin quit
07:45 <wrtlprnft> It was a surprise for the guy who bluffed to be admin, he wasn't
07:45 <wrtlprnft> and the logs i uploaded don't contain that
07:49 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: ah, I thought you wanted to report a bug :)
07:50 <z-man-work> and that send me on wild speculations.
07:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, sorry for wasting your time
07:51 <wrtlprnft> i said, imagine HIS surprise, which means i wasn't surprised at all
07:52 <wrtlprnft> i still have to figure out what to make out of this engine post of you... i have nothing to say to it, and neither does anyone else... I'm happy if it works, but i have no clue about the engine anyways
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07:55 <z-man-work> yeah, I thought the silence was a sign of baffledness :) Maybe I'll manage to make a simplified followup post.
07:56 <wrtlprnft> don't worry, i read it all, but i don't know what's best since i have absolutely no experience with that code
07:56 <wrtlprnft> I'll be happy if i undestand sensors one day for the HUD#
08:25 -!- xTs [n=none@p54B17C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
08:25 <xTs> hi
08:25 <xTs> is there a static linked version of armagetronad somewhere?
08:32 <guru3> not that i know of
08:32 <guru3> theoretically possible to compiled i think
08:33 <xTs> would be nice, because the autoconfig-thingy doesn't work everywhere
08:35 <guru3> the regular configure script?
08:37 <xTs> does not work where headers are missing
08:37 <guru3> that's... odd
08:37 <guru3> a precompiled with dynamic libraries?
08:38 <xTs> won't work either. missing libSDL_image
08:38 <z-man-work> xTs: of course it fails if headers are missing; compilation would fail then, too.
08:38 <guru3> i think that comes under the heading of 'bad luck'
08:38 <xTs> compiling libSDL wont get it to work
08:39 <z-man-work> isn't it enough to install all the _devel packages to SDL, SDL_image and that?
08:40 <z-man-work> The closest we have to a statically linked version are the autopackages. They contain libxml2 already.
08:41 <z-man-work> But wherever I was until now, compiling SDL/SDL_image and installing them from source always made compilation of AA work...
08:41 <z-man-work> What are your specifics, xTs? System type, distribution, all that.
08:43 <xTs> fedora i think
08:43 <xTs> core 4
08:43 <z-man-work> The autopackage should work there, and the rpm, too. Tested it with 0.2.8.1.
08:43 <xTs> pentium 4, 1GB RAM
08:43 <xTs> well, as user you can just unpack the rpm
08:44 <z-man-work> can't?
08:44 <xTs> can
08:44 <xTs> but installation is prohibited ;)
08:44 <z-man-work> ok :)
08:44 <z-man-work> but the autopackage supports per-user installation.
08:45 <xTs> i know
08:45 <z-man-work> you just have to remember to pass it the -t flag, or it will crash later in the installation
08:45 <xTs> but it throws an error ;)
08:45 <z-man-work> even with -t?
08:46 <xTs> what does -t?
08:46 <z-man-work> text mode installation
08:50 <xTs> hm, have to leave
08:50 <xTs> bye bye
08:50 -!- xTs [n=none@p54B17C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #armagetron ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!"]
08:50 <guru3> Oo
08:50 * z-man-work wonders if that means it didn't work
08:51 <guru3> i dunno im slightly confused
08:51 <guru3> what keeps the auto installer thing from working anyway?
08:51 <z-man-work> That most distris don't install headers for libraries.
08:52 <guru3> the installer?
08:52 <z-man-work> so you can use them in compiled programs, but you can't compile a program that uses them
08:52 <guru3> replace auto installer with autopackage
08:52 <guru3> the thing you have to use -t on
08:52 <guru3> what keeps it from working without -t
08:52 <z-man-work> Some unknown crash
08:53 <guru3> hmm ok
08:53 <guru3> maybe we can put it in a wrapper to automatically use -t?
08:53 <z-man-work> Hmm
08:53 <guru3> i think i can write one in shell
08:53 <guru3> at least i've seen it done
08:56 <z-man-work> we could try to simply hack the .autopackage script, it seems to transfer control to the installer, passing all the flags
08:56 <z-man-work> "$meta_dir/apkg-installer" "$@"
08:56 <z-man-work> change that to
08:56 <z-man-work> "$meta_dir/apkg-installer" -t "$@"
08:56 <z-man-work> and maybe we're done
08:57 <guru3> that would be good
08:58 <z-man-work> seems to work
08:58 <guru3> great
08:58 <z-man-work> I was afraid it would trigger the MD5 check, but that's not run on the entire script, only the payload
08:59 <z-man-work> Of course, whith this hack in place, the user can't install it in graphical mode any more.
09:00 <z-man-work> But that doesn't work on Ubuntu 5.10, FC4 and SuSE 9.1 anyway
09:00 <z-man-work> Lucifer has one system where it does work :)
09:01 <z-man-work> Aww, anyway, I'll just integrate this little hack in our release system. Should be ready for 0.2.8.2_rc1.
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09:05 <guru3> cool
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--- Log closed Fri May 19 11:05:21 2006
--- Log opened Fri May 19 11:11:49 2006
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12:18 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> hi all
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> did you miss me?
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> ;p
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> hi
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> found my power inverter :)
12:36 <z-man-work> I didn't know you could invert power...
12:37 <Lucifer_arma> 12VDC to 115VAC, 60hz
12:37 <Lucifer_arma> it plugs into a cigarette lighter and gives you a regular house-like plug :)
12:37 * z-man-work wonders why that's not called CONverter
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> if I knew slightly more about electronics than I know, I could answer that for you
12:38 <z-man-work> heh
12:38 <z-man-work> morning, btw, and hi tard.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> morning
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> I need a box to put all this stuff in. :)
12:38 <z-man-work> Umm, no, SuPeRTaRD, I didn't miss you very much to be honest, but good to see you anyway :)
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> hard to miss someone when you know they'll be back soon, eh? ;)
12:41 <z-man-work> I thought all we know is that they all do come back, but not when.
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> supertard's different, he says he won't be back for awhile and then you see him next week
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> basically it's usually opposite the time estimate he gives you. :)
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> awww, man. My thinkpad didn't have a touchpad
12:43 <z-man-work> Only a nipple?
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> not a good ui to consider while driving
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> I was hoping I might find a pinout for the keyboard and see if I could build a little case for it :)
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> not a biggie, plenty of ps/2 keyboards and pointer devices, the LCD is the important thing here
12:45 <z-man-work> How about a touchscreen? It should be possible to retrofit a crude one.
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> it would also be particularly nice if I could use this cd drive, it's pretty thin
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'd love a touchscreen.
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> but it's a "no money" sort of project. I can buy little electronic parts needed to wire stuff up, but the big parts that cost real money I have to scrape from spares
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> but I saved my broken laptop for exactly this sort of hair-brained scheme. :)
12:47 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
12:56 <guru3> what sort of scheme?
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://store.earthlcd.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.223/.f
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> car computer
12:57 <guru3> heh
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> I saw a webpage awhile back that described how to make a regular vga plug for the lcd from the laptop. can't seem to find it now...
12:57 <guru3> gotcha
12:57 <guru3> cool
12:57 <guru3> share the link if/when you find it :P
12:59 <guru3> i'm looking into running mysqld from its own dir so i can have more than one on my server to test the clustering
13:08 <guru3> or i'll look at it later
13:19 <GodTodd> anyone have any idea as to the possible collectability of a Green Jello cd?
13:19 <GodTodd> heh
13:19 <guru3> Oo
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> I hear the ones that said Jello are wroth a lot of money, actually
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> and very very rare
13:19 <GodTodd> hmmmm
13:20 <GodTodd> i have one that's in really good condition
13:20 <z-man-work> Jello or Jelly?
13:20 <z-man-work> I only got Green Jelly :)
13:21 <GodTodd> no...it's jello
13:21 <GodTodd> :D
13:21 <GodTodd> bought it when it first came out
13:22 <GodTodd> somehow it was like the only cd that ended up at my mom's house that DIDN'T get its jewel case smashed to a pulp
13:22 <GodTodd> heh
13:23 <GodTodd> not that i really want to sell it (or need to for that matter) just would be cool to know if i'm sitting on some real cash
13:23 <GodTodd> :D
13:28 <z-man-work> Well, misprints/first editions that were changed later for weird reasons always are kind of valuable
13:29 <z-man-work> I'd say to look it up on ebay, but probalby the sale of them is prohibited there.
13:30 <GodTodd> nah...i'm tracking a few now....not as high as i'd like to see ;)
13:32 <GodTodd> hmmm...i also have a 24 carat gold Dark Side of the Moon...
13:32 <GodTodd> think that was 25$ new
13:32 * GodTodd is going through his cds since he is anxiously awaiting his wrathchild cds
13:32 <GodTodd> heh
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> why do I never bookmark neat pages? I have nothing but crap, I swear.
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> Something that tells me how to wire a car stereo to a power supply, for example.
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> but why didn't I bookmark that lcd page that told me how to stick a vga connector on my thinkpad's lcd? :(
13:35 <GodTodd> i got tired of that myself...so if anything i OVERbookmark now
13:35 <GodTodd> :)
13:51 <GodTodd> looking for something like this, luci: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/using_a_laptop_lcd_with_a_vga.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
13:51 <GodTodd> obviously not that one specifically because they haven't yet posted how they did it
13:51 <GodTodd> :/
14:00 <guru3> looks really not promising
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14:11 <GodTodd> blergle
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> except right now I'm off to finish my residency chore. Just went with my neighbor to notarize the letter. :)
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> its called an inverter cuz DC was born first
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> an earlier invention
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> alternating current is alien technology
14:29 <SuPeRTaRD> anyone know: torque/torquescript, C++, C#, Python, Java
14:29 <SuPeRTaRD> & want to work on an indie game with me?
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> and some other peeps
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> if it sells we'll get paid
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> its got a badass concept & stuff 4 publishers have shown interest
14:32 <SuPeRTaRD> anyways, if anyoene wants to program some insectoid civilization meets rpg meets pikmin typa game goto #zeolite
14:32 <SuPeRTaRD> blah
14:33 <SuPeRTaRD> just kidding about the inverter,.. i think its cuz it combines 2 positives into 1 positive 1 negative dc.. on ac the current switches in a sine wave really fast
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> speed of light or so\
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> mebbe thats nto right
14:34 * SuPeRTaRD shrugs
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> 2 become 1 = inverter
14:35 <SuPeRTaRD> electricity is a hoax! it should be called magnetricity most testing equipment only mesure the positive side
14:36 <SuPeRTaRD> i tell you
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15:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: grats :)
15:22 <wrtlprnft> although, as i said to z-man and guru3 already: If the two agree you have no chance ;)
15:22 <z-man> But if Lucifer_arma and guru3 agree, I have no chance. It's mutual :)
15:23 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but until now you two did agree
15:23 * wrtlprnft has another thing to throw on his pile: a more performant wrappind algorythm
15:23 <wrtlprnft> *wrapping
15:23 <guru3> heh
15:24 <wrtlprnft> or, better, make text boxes persistent
15:24 <wrtlprnft> so you only have to re-wrap them if they change
15:24 <z-man> Yes! absolutely.
15:24 <z-man> And possibly, if the user values performance more than memory, you don't even have to re-render them
15:25 <wrtlprnft> it'll definitely be needed for real tables and stuff
15:25 <wrtlprnft> the current score table, if you use a font that doesn't have a fixed width and someone is called mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it'll be too wide and overlap with the score
15:26 <wrtlprnft> and wrapping long words is a mess as well
15:27 <wrtlprnft> what about leaving rTextField as it is, but making a rTextBox? Things that frequently change and don't need wrapping and colors and stuff can be redrawn completely every frame
15:27 <wrtlprnft> so rTextFied would not have wrapping, but rTextBox would
15:36 <z-man> Fine by me.
15:38 <wrtlprnft> any better name maybe?
15:38 <wrtlprnft> TextArea would be more HTML- like
15:39 <z-man> Box is fine, it says clearly that it has boundaries
15:39 <z-man> Isn't a text area some place where you enter text in html?
15:39 <guru3> yes
15:40 <wrtlprnft> yes it is
15:40 <z-man> Well, TextBox would only display it. I'd say box fits better.
15:40 <wrtlprnft> i was comparing it more to text area and input type="text"
15:41 <z-man> In LaTeX, areas with text/forumulas inside are all called boxes
15:41 <z-man> But it seems I'm the only one taking LaTeX as a reference for stuff here :)
15:42 <wrtlprnft> heh, my knowledge of latex is restricted to wikipedia formulas
15:42 <z-man> People get confused when I write \approx and int_a^b x^2 dx = {1\over 3}(b^3-a^3)
15:42 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: would you mind breaking the wiki again so noone can create new pages?
15:43 <z-man> Spambots on a rampage?
15:43 <wrtlprnft> yep
15:44 <wrtlprnft> rollbaclk of normal pages takes 2 clicks, deleting a new page takes 3 klicks and specifying a reason
15:47 <wrtlprnft> what annoys me is that some spam survived 18 hours
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16:04 -!- SKinner [n=43227be4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:05 <SKinner> anyone here speak english?
16:06 -!- SKinner [n=43227be4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:07 <GodTodd> nope
16:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:09 <wrtlprnft> not me, sorry
16:10 <wrtlprnft> don't speak it at all, not even a bit
16:11 <McSpiddles> speak what?
16:12 <wrtlprnft> english
16:12 <McSpiddles> .....
16:12 <McSpiddles> i thought that was a dead launguage
16:12 <McSpiddles> like pig latin
16:12 <wrtlprnft> this channel is all latin now
16:12 <McSpiddles> if that even was a language >.>
16:12 <wrtlprnft> english is dead
16:13 <McSpiddles> yea,and so are my english grades
16:13 <McSpiddles> :/
16:13 <wrtlprnft> oh well. you don't wanna see my french grades
16:14 <McSpiddles> they expect me to know another sub-language before you can get into college,that sucks cause i barely know english xD
16:14 <wrtlprnft> sub-language? what's that?
16:14 <McSpiddles> like
16:14 <McSpiddles> a second language
16:14 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
16:14 <wrtlprnft> so like me talking english right now?
16:15 <McSpiddles> typing!
16:15 <wrtlprnft> or would that be the second foreign language?
16:15 <McSpiddles> but yea :p
16:15 <McSpiddles> depends
16:15 <wrtlprnft> ever heard of voice recognition?
16:15 <wrtlprnft> who tells you i'm not talking to my computer and it makes text of it?
16:15 <McSpiddles> what's your main language?
16:16 <wrtlprnft> guess
16:16 <McSpiddles> german?
16:16 <wrtlprnft> tada! you're right!
16:16 <McSpiddles> then,english would be your second language :p,i think :/
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and then comes french, but je ne parle pas francais tr�s bien
16:17 <wrtlprnft> yep
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ne parle pas francais? ne parle francais pas?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> grr, see?
16:17 <McSpiddles> where's belgium at?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> at?
16:17 <McSpiddles> yea,my geography sucks
16:18 <McSpiddles> that's another thing
16:18 <wrtlprnft> uh, left of germany
16:18 <wrtlprnft> over france
16:18 <McSpiddles> the only things i'm really good at is math and science :p
16:18 <wrtlprnft> under the netherlands
16:18 <McSpiddles> k
16:18 <wrtlprnft> uh, northeast of britain
16:18 <McSpiddles> my ancestors are from belgium
16:18 <wrtlprnft> *southeast
16:18 * wrtlprnft should stick to up, down, left, right
16:19 <McSpiddles> lol!
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> English isn't a foreign language. :)
16:36 <wrtlprnft> sure it is for me
16:36 <wrtlprnft> german isn't a foreign language
16:37 <MaZuffeR> german is my 4th language :)
16:38 <wrtlprnft> na dann...
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> I only speak german when I'm sick
16:38 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> and need to cough up a ball of mucus
16:38 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't that mean you always speak german jk
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> Belgium is in the Germany->France invasion route, you can't miss it.
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> ack, but I"m in a weird mood, heh.
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> ACC has finally recognized my Texas residence
16:40 <wrtlprnft> but only if you want to invade france you go through belgium
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> right, if you just want to trade or visit family, you go directly
16:41 <wrtlprnft> If you just want to go to the south near the ocean you're more likely to go through swizerland
16:41 <wrtlprnft> at least if you live in munich or anyplace near
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was always cheaper to just go around switzerland?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> Why?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> with a big army?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> you don't have to stop there
16:42 <wrtlprnft> not with an army
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, but you still have to go up quite a ways, don't you?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> if you have an army you go trhoug belgium, correct
16:42 <wrtlprnft> if you want to paris you go directly
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> oh, you're not talking about invasion routes then
16:43 <wrtlprnft> * to paris as a tourist
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> what I"ve always wondered, and this is probably a failing on my part, is that, um, ok.
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> We're given as one of the reasons the Soviets kept east europe to itself the fact that poland was a traditional invasion route from the west into Russia, right?
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> so they could essentially put a forward defense in poland.
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> But whenever I look at the history books, the only invasion of Russia I see from the west is Napolean, and the Russians came out of that war (and WWII, that's the other invasion) stronger than before
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> What other invasions are there that they're worried about?
16:45 <wrtlprnft> well, WW1 there was an eastern front too
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but that one was instigated by the russians, iirc.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> responding to their alliance, Russia jumped in, then Germany or Austria or somebody declared war or Russia.
16:45 <wrtlprnft> the german focused more on the west, yes
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> not the same as Napolean or Hitler formally invading Russia like they did.
16:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:46 <wrtlprnft> although, did germany ever get to russia in WWII?
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they got all the way to Moscow
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, they even occupied Moscow for a few hours
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> I could be wrong, could be that their army was stopped at Moscow
16:47 <wrtlprnft> there's two class i really suck in germany, that's french and history
16:47 <wrtlprnft> *classes
16:47 <wrtlprnft> *suck at
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, after Moscow, they pulled back to Stalingrad, and the war on the whole was decided there over the next year or so
16:47 <wrtlprnft> maybe i suck in english too, it seems
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> Hitler is first hated for killing Jews, and second hated for wiping out all the beautiful churches and other buildings in St. Petersburg (Leningrad at the time of invasion)
16:49 <wrtlprnft> at least the war ended the great depression
16:51 <guru3> good night
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> 'night guru3
16:52 <wrtlprnft> night
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> tank! Your car just ran a red light!
16:57 <wrtlprnft> red lights?
16:58 <wrtlprnft> i don't see any lights
16:58 <wrtlprnft> just a plain street
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17:21 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/sp.php
17:21 <wrtlprnft> just got bored and copied over the MBC stats page and changed the source URL
18:18 <n54> #weather oslo, norway
18:18 <armabot> n54: Error: Could not find weather information.
18:19 <n54> #weather Oslo, Norway
18:19 <armabot> n54: Error: Could not find weather information.
18:19 <n54> #weather oslo
18:19 <armabot> n54: Temperature: 49.5°F / 9.7°C | Humidity: 99% | Pressure: 29.24in / 990.1hPa | Conditions: | Wind Direction: NNE | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0.0km/h | Updated: 12:50 AM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:53 � F. / 12 � C.; Rain. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:55 � F. / 13 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:53 � F. / 12 � C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.;
18:20 <n54> guess there's a high chance of rain... :\
18:54 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:01 <Self_Destructo> ok, I'm here after a 11 hour work day :/
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--- Log opened Fri May 19 22:05:26 2006
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22:32 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Jews were not even a majority of people killed by the WW2 Holocaust
22:34 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: I think we may be developing a organization/authority style by accident-- eg, certain two people (such as Luci & I) agreeing making something definate
22:36 <n54> Luke-Jr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll
22:36 <Luke-Jr> n54: Wikipedia doesn't make facts
22:37 <n54> well it's certainly more authorative than you
22:37 <Luke-Jr> not necessarily
22:37 <Luke-Jr> in some cases, probably
22:37 <n54> sorry but it's not you who decide that
22:38 <n54> it's me :)
22:38 <Luke-Jr> but since the Jews like to bend these figures to their benefit, probably not in this case
22:39 <Luke-Jr> n54: linking a wikipedia page with likely misinformation isn't going to stand as an argument for me, so I won't even try to refute it ;)
22:40 <Luke-Jr> not that I imagine there's much to refute-- it probably just has a number
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million Jews, 10 million total, including homosexuals, generic non-germans, women, communists, etc.
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million is a majority in 10 million
22:41 <Luke-Jr> except 6 million isn't true
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> got a source? "Luke says" has been demonstrably proven untrustworthy
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> cite or shut it
22:42 <n54> what's your point exactly Luke? you like nazis? you don't like jews? you're insane?
22:42 <Luke-Jr> I'm sure Google can find some sources for you
22:43 <Luke-Jr> I have better things to do than to prove some irrelevant point
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> google is not itself a source, and you need to provide the source since you're the one asserting the fact
22:43 <Luke-Jr> Google can *find* some sources, I said. Not that it was one.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> see? this is why "Luke says" is untrustworthy. Because whenever he's called on the table, he backs down and says "I don't have time for this"
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't have the time, don't do the crime.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> I asked for a source, not a search engine.
22:43 <Luke-Jr> no crime in stating the truth
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you say it's true, you have to be prepared to back it, which you're not. Therefore it's likely not true.
22:44 <Luke-Jr> on this matter, if you want proof, either find it for yourself, or just continue believing something wrong
22:44 <Luke-Jr> I don't care whether you believe it's true or not
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> why? I've seen plenty of credible sources that give the numbers I gave.
22:44 <n54> well I don't care wasting more time on you luke, bye bye
22:44 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: are they all Zionist influenced?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't care what I believe, why bother chiming in?
22:45 <Luke-Jr> Anyway, I don't care. Believe what you will.
22:45 <Luke-Jr> to give the truth a voice
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> a voice without credibility is worthless, you're only undermining your truth
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million, afaik, is the "official" number, but estimates range anywhere from 5-8 million Jews. The nazis kept good records and all, but many of them were destroyed.
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> just like the estimated death toll for the whole war is just that, an estimate, and the actual count could be higher or lower
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't really matter what the exact numbers are, unless you can cite something that is statistically significant. It's still genocide, and it's still evil.
22:47 <Luke-Jr> I suggest you research it if you want to find the truth. Otherwise, I'm done talking about it
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> /ignore Luke-Jr
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> oops
22:47 <n54> yeah I did the same, I have a limit
22:47 <Luke-Jr> kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I get tired of "here's the fact, research it if you don't believe me"
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> the burden of proof rests with the person asserting the fact. That's why prosecutors have to prove guilt. Presumption of innocence and all that.
22:48 <n54> I'm all for people having contradictary opinions but not incessant "you're wrong - I'm right"-trolling
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: if I ever assert a fact that I'm not willing to back up or back down from, just shoot me.
22:48 <Luke-Jr> #echo kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking... *back to work on svn conversion* (ps, burden of proof might lie with me if I cared for you to accept the fact, but I don't)
22:48 <armabot> kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking... *back to work on svn conversion* (ps, burden of proof might lie with me if I cared for you to accept the fact, but I don't)
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #ignore Luke-Jr
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
22:49 <n54> hey we all fall into that trap once in a while lucifer, we're all human
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore Luke-Jr
22:49 <armabot> blah
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> damn, forgot the admin key
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #list admin
22:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: capability add, capability remove, channels, ignore add, ignore list, ignore remove, join, nick, and part
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore add Luke-Jr
22:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore list
22:50 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 'Luke-Jr!n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d'
22:50 <Luke-Jr> dumb...
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> my 7 year old has more advanced development, I think. grrrr.
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go smoke a cigarette
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, looked into that LCD thing
22:51 <n54> good idea
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> turns out that you can't use LCD's from laptops like that. The problem is the controller is usually integrated into the motherboard and inseparable.
22:52 <n54> oh
22:52 <n54> ah that would be the DRAM I gues
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> so it's either buy an LCD that has a controller, or buy a custom made controller for $300+
22:52 <n54> hmm wonder if it would be possible to remove the chip from the mb?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> so the reason I was keeping this broken laptop around has expired, I'm gonna chunk it
22:53 <n54> well maybe the screen will break on another laptop?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> *if* you could figure out which parts it was, sure. Except the controller likely has an interface that only works with the video chip set that's there.
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> has to match models.
22:53 <n54> yeah...
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> that may not be entirely true, there might be a more useful interchange, but for all practical purposes it's true.
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> if I ran a salvage shop, maybe I'd care about interchange. :)
22:54 <n54> yeah for a quick swap it would have to be true
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> but I found my power inverter. So I just need to work out the visual, and some other stuff. I think I'm going to start with a UI that has no visual interface and see what I can do with it.
22:55 <n54> I once heard/saw something about people reusing motherboard components to build routers iirc - somewhat advanced I guess
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I can solder, and I can follow wiring harnesses, and occasionally read a simple circuit board. :) The rest is beyond my ability.
22:56 <n54> yeah, might not be worth the effort really
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, I need to justify costs is what I need to do. if I can show it's worth putting some money into it, the money will materialize.
22:57 <n54> btw what was wrong with the laptop? I think you said but I've forgotten
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> we also do allowances, it's a good fair way to distribute discretionary money. I can save mine up for the parts I want, and with me getting my car going that'll be a lot easier than it was last semester.
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I *think* the motherboard was bad.
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> the hard drive definitely was bad, so I replaced it. Then it just stopped working completely, right? No pings, no sshd response, nothing.
22:58 <n54> old/new laptop? big/small?
22:58 <n54> hmm
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> So I sold the new hard drive out of it, and it was bad. I got that warranteed for my customer.
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'm sitting here with a thinkpad that lacks a laptop, and can't boot. I tried knoppix to see if the broken hard drive had something to do with it.
22:59 <n54> ok
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> the laptop was bought refurbished, it's a Thinkpad a22e. 800mhz Celeron, 256MB RAM.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> it was a nice work laptop when it worked. Not terribly fast, true, but fine for working. Solid keyboard, lightweight, etc.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> This compaq I've got is a sweet computer, but the keyboard'd pretty crappy and the damn thing is heavy.
23:00 <n54> perhaps you could sell it here for them to use components *doesn't know* http://www.impactcomputers.com/ibmparts-ibm-thinkpad-thinkpad-a22e-parts.html
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> I actually just went over the subject with my wife and determined I've got better things to spend my time with. :)
23:00 <n54> or simply ebay
23:00 <n54> ok :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't feel right throwing it on ebay without a positive diagnosis. I'm sure enough it's a motherboard that I'd buy one if they weren't so damn expensive,
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> but not sure enough to sell it to somebody and tell them "just replace the motherboard, put a hard drive in it"
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> and I checked the market for spare parts, and there's plenty. :) I doubt I'd get much for it.
23:01 <n54> just say so as there might be someone out there with the same thinkpad with a faulty screen (screens break easily etc.)
23:01 <n54> ok :)
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> actually, while that's a possibility, this particular thinkpad model was notorious for having a strong screen. :)
23:02 <n54> lol ok
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the motherboard at thinkpadparts.com is $1000. I found another place selling it for $345 on sale.
23:02 <n54> yikes
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's no big deal. I was keepig it around for the screen, not intending to salvage anything else of value out of it.
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> that was the fakest sex scene I've ever seen
--- Log closed Fri May 19 23:08:34 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 00:23:37 2006
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00:33 <Lucifer_arma> yay, my spare computer fits under the seat of my car
00:33 <n54> hehe
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> it's the one I tried to host the wiki on but it kept crashing. Yet it ran for several hours before doing so, it should be fine, provided I can get it to boot and play some music before I get to where I'm going.
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> so, I need to determine if it'll run on the 3 amp fuse that's in the cigarette lighter, or if I need to run another circuit with a 15 amp fuse (the max for the inverter)
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> I figure I'll just use a keyboard, have it boot into single-user mode, and maybe I'll write up a python app to wrap the media players.
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> know a good all-purpose command line media player? Or will I have to chain a bunch together?
00:39 * Lucifer_arma wonders if mplayer will take keyboard input if it doesn't open a window
00:40 <n54> no idea
00:42 <n54> would it7they care if it opened a window that wasn't actually displayed?
00:42 <n54> it/they*
00:43 <n54> almost a koan...
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, no gui means I don't want to waste resources on X
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> that means most of the media players will have unsatisfied dependencies, since they ultimately depend on X
00:46 <n54> mm yeah
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> mpd looks promising
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's a music player daemon, and there's a command line client for it
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> that's very promising, all things considered
00:48 <n54> ,pg321 perhaps?
00:49 <n54> mpg*
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's mpeg only
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> need ogg vorbis, too
00:51 <n54> ok
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> see, I could write a python app to wrap mpg123 and the ogg version of it, but it'd be nice to have a bigger, more functional program that does it all
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> mpd is looking very promising, actually. Might still need to wrap it, though. The UI looks pretty dependent on being able to *see* it.
00:52 <n54> here's something google threw up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-testing/2005/01/msg00026.html
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I was looking through my package list. Stopped on mpd, music123 is farther down. :)
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> it has the advantage of being a single program, mpd might be complex to manage.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> the advantage to mpd doesn't show until I've figured out other useful apps to run without a visual interface, or put a visual interface on there
00:55 <n54> moosic and music123 looks intersting though?
00:56 <n54> http://www.nanoo.org/~daniel/moosic/
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> randomplay looks good, too
00:57 <n54> I doubt you'll have to code anything, there seems to be lots of alternatives
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> coding anything means UI only. :)
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> I need a regular media-player like interface, where I can hit shuffle, next, previous, play, stop, and maybe that's it.
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> Volume will be handled on the CD player, so I want the mixer on the computer to always be at about 80%, maybe 100%
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> mpc doesn't appear to give me that interface, though.
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> only one way to find out
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I"ll start with music123, it looks like the simplest of the choices
01:00 <n54> did you look at the moosic page?
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> features after those basic ones are going to depend on how useful a UI can be made that has no visual feedback element
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it'll probably be the next one I look at. It'll be the first client/server app, anyway. :) mpd's command line client looks like it requires a monitor
01:01 <n54> ok :)
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> music123 is out
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's only ui is control-c
01:04 <n54> ack lol
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> and if it's playing multiple songs, that just moves it to the next song
01:05 <n54> moosic at least claims to be able to do a lot more, hope it does
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> mpg123 and its family (music123 is in it) are intended to be wrapped by other applications, so they have very basic interfaces
01:06 <n54> ok
--- Log closed Sat May 20 01:11:30 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 02:46:41 2006
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02:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think I've got a serial->ps/2 adapter laying around
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> that's a neat machine, n54 :)
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I don't have a template for a python console project :(
02:49 <guru3> you can't do serial -> ps2
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> ? maybe it's the other way then..
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> I dont' remember, haven't seen it in awhile because it's pretty useless
02:52 <Luke-Jr> guru3: why not?
02:53 <guru3> doesn't work like that
02:54 <n54> bbiaw - phonecalls
02:54 <guru3> k
02:55 <GodTodd> http://ucables.com/ref/NKCO-FMBUS <--- serial -> ps2 cable
02:56 <GodTodd> http://www.saveateagle.com/i-165.html <--- serial -> ps2 adapter
02:58 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:59 * n54 says to himself "that was quick" in dry gauntlet voice
02:59 <n54> ah so you can do serial -> ps2?
02:59 <GodTodd> of course you can....the whole mouse connecter era
03:00 <GodTodd> :)
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> a better question (read: important now :) ), how do you read one unbuffered byte at a time from stdin in python?
03:00 <n54> yeah I kinda thought so but...
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> it's gotta be something simple...
03:00 <guru3> ps/2 -> serial ok
03:00 <guru3> but you can't do serial -> ps/2
03:00 <n54> hmm perhaps you're seeing it fro different directions?
03:01 <n54> nvm :)
03:01 <guru3> when you see serial -> ps/2
03:01 <guru3> it's for the older generation mice
03:01 <guru3> that supported both protcols
03:01 <guru3> it's not a true adapter
03:01 <n54> ok
03:02 <n54> not sure what you were asking there Lucifer
03:03 <n54> you want more inside python but only get it one at the time?
03:03 <n54> if so just do the fifo thing with lists
03:04 <guru3> g2g for a bit
03:04 <guru3> bbl
03:04 <n54> cya :)
03:06 <n54> inside python that is (but you're probably asking something more advanced)
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> what I want is to be able to press a key and have it do something right away
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> simple, right? :)
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> I want C's getc() function
03:13 <n54> hmm like keyevent?
03:15 <n54> btw this keyboard looks nice doesn't it? although probably not for your use http://www.fentek-ind.com/rf-wireless-keyboard.htm#kbmrf100
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, like keyevent
03:16 <n54> hold on
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy with pygame
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> but there won't be sdl on the machine, so I can't use it
03:17 <n54> e.type== KEYDOWN;
03:17 <n54>
03:18 <n54> ops sorry & ok no sdl
03:18 <n54> so forget the bothed example I was trying to write you ;)
03:19 <n54> botched
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> ncurses probably has the answer
03:21 <n54> or perhaps simply curses?
03:22 <n54> although I'm looking for something even simpler
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, curses
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> I was looking for something similar, but reading this page I think curses is exactly what I should use
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/curses/curses.html
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> s/similar/simpler
03:24 <n54> yeah I was browsing the py lib ref index
03:25 <n54> curses probably is the best though, couldn't find anything better at a glance
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03:28 <n54> I'm sure you've read point 5 User INput in your link, that seem nice & easy
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but now my terminal is stuck with no echo
03:32 <n54> how about the same old raw_input()?
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's buffered
03:33 <n54> ok
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> I got it going, sorta. Need to solve that minor problem, but otherwise it's working fine. I can read what I type in the window. :)
03:33 <n54> just out of curiosity why does it have to me unbuffered? just for speed?
03:34 <n54> be*
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03:42 <Lucifer_arma> because I'll be *driving* while using this interface
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> so, it seems like the thing should have a series of like preset playlist
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> s
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> and a simple combination should add the currently playing song to a playlist
03:43 <n54> yup, moosic has that according to their site
03:43 <n54> that ability*
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> so it should be able to scan a directory tree and play all the songs there, and let you add stuff to playlists while it's playing
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> the idea being that while I'm driving I could assemble playlists. :)
03:44 <n54> yeah but does it need to be unbuffered to do that?
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> ack
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> you drive sometimes, right?
03:44 * n54 is probably just being thick - sorry
03:44 <n54> nope ;D
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> ah
03:45 <n54> although I know how :)
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> you've driven before?
03:45 <n54> yeah
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> ok, when you want to say "go to the next song", should it be one keypress or two?
03:45 <n54> one
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> same with play/pause/stop
03:45 <n54> yeah
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> that's why it has to be unbuffered
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> now, since it's unbuffered, there's baggage. Key combinations I'll have to manually check for.
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> so I'll have to collect the keys into a sequence or something, and when the sequence matches a command, do something
03:46 <guru3> back
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> do that command, in fact
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, first I need to get it to play. Worry about fancy stuff later. :)
03:47 <n54> hold on I need to check what i did in some stuff and or if I actually used raw_input() with that or if it was a keyevent
03:49 <n54> sorry I wasn't thinking, I get you now
03:52 <n54> but you've convinced me there must/should be something else than curses, anything else seems weird to me (not that I've found it yet)
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's neat. Has a ways to go before I put it in my car. :) I need to move towards my bed now.
03:57 <n54> ':)
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> I also should look around and see if I'm taking my only spare keyboard for this project. Still, I have until the fall semester to worry about it.
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> unless something happens between now and then to give me an influx of unexpected cash (likely, the insurance company is willing to settle medical claims on the last car accident)
03:58 <n54> you ran over some old lady+
03:58 <n54> ?*
04:01 * n54 wonders if lucifer could simply use stdin
04:01 <n54> i.e. bypass raw_input()
04:05 <guru3> i so want a 770 :/
04:05 <n54> :) guru3
04:05 <n54> then you've decided+
04:06 <guru3> only my mom will probably try to talk me into something smaller & cheaper
04:06 <n54> ?*
04:06 <guru3> yeah
04:06 <guru3> you can do so much cool stuff with it
04:08 <n54> Tele2 doesn't have some ultracheap offer (with a real cheap subscription) on it or something like that?
04:09 <guru3> uh?
04:09 <guru3> it's not a phone
04:09 <n54> ooh sorry lol
04:09 <n54> it's a pda?
04:09 <guru3> tablet
04:10 <n54> I though you were aiming for either a phone or a laptop earlier
04:10 <guru3> runs linux :)
04:10 <n54> ah ok
04:10 <guru3> no
04:10 <guru3> tablet or laptop
04:10 <n54> ok :)
04:13 <n54> #help message
04:13 <armabot> n54: (message <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "later tell $1 $2".
04:14 <n54> #message Lucifer_arma take a look at this one http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/134892 as a replacement for curses
04:14 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
04:15 <n54> guru3: what's the full name of the tablet?
04:15 <guru3> Nokia 770 Internet Tablet
04:15 * n54 googles it
04:19 <n54> nice but I see the prices vary with about 400$ :o
04:20 <guru3> that's not bad
04:20 <guru3> cheaper, smaller, cooler than a laptop
04:21 <n54> I looked at froogle and 350$ is the lowest price so far
04:21 <guru3> problem is i also want a 1gb memory card
04:21 <guru3> and a bt keyboard
04:21 <n54> buy seperately?
04:22 <guru3> you have to
04:22 <n54> I dunno what the official price or ordinary shop price is
04:22 <guru3> nor do i
04:22 <guru3> but it's ok
04:22 <n54> #g USD 350 to NOK
04:22 <armabot> n54: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:22 <guru3> cause my parents have to figure that stuff out
04:23 <n54> #g 350 USD to NOK
04:23 <armabot> n54: 350 U.S. dollars = 2,135.80028 Norwegian kroner
04:23 <n54> hehe :D
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to NOK
04:23 <armabot> guru3: 400 U.S. dollars = 2,440.91461 Norwegian kroner
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to SWE
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to SEK
04:23 <armabot> guru3: 400 U.S. dollars = 2,928.27912 Swedish kronor
04:23 <guru3> #help calc
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Error: That command exists in the Google and Math plugins. Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.
04:23 <guru3> #help g, calc
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Error: There is no command "g, calc".
04:23 <guru3> i have no idea how to use the damn bot :/
04:24 <n54> #help google calc
04:24 <armabot> n54: (google calc <expression>) -- Uses Google's calculator to calculate the value of <expression>.
04:24 <guru3> #google calc 2928 * 1.15
04:24 <armabot> guru3: 2,928 * 1.15 = 3,367.2
04:24 <guru3> #google calc 2928 * 1.25
04:24 <armabot> guru3: 2,928 * 1.25 = 3,660
04:24 <guru3> meh
04:24 <n54> mind #g is an alias for #google calc
04:24 <guru3> hmm
04:37 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870D64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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05:17 <McSpiddles> hm
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05:55 <guru3> g2g
05:55 <guru3> bbl
06:06 <z-man> 0.2.8.2_rc1 second attempt build report: Sources are tagged, Linux and Windows builds are rolling.
06:07 * z-man pretends anyone is interested
06:12 <n54> ah, you're probably just the only dev around right now
07:16 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
07:16 <Gnorty> ping
07:22 <z-man> #$%$^$ Visual C++
07:22 <z-man> I have this function that does nothing else than pass some parameter to another funciton, and VC6 manages to screw up that.
07:23 <z-man> I so hope the service pack I'm installing fixes that...
07:28 <wrtlprnft> I wonder what VC doesn't like about that template function in tXmlParser::node...
07:32 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
07:33 <z-man> VC doesn't like any templates
07:33 <z-man> It's nothing personal against you :)
07:34 <wrtlprnft> doesn't like ANY templates at all?
07:34 <z-man> Well, some work
07:34 <z-man> but only special ones
07:34 <wrtlprnft> wow
07:34 <z-man> Standard template classes work
07:34 <z-man> template<class T> class Template{}
07:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i guess so, they have to
07:35 <z-man> but that's about it
07:35 <z-man> Template member functions, sometimes
07:35 <wrtlprnft> no template functions?
07:35 <z-man> Well, look at the tString to Int/Float/whatever functions....
07:35 <z-man> They should be templates, but aren't for VisualC
07:37 <wrtlprnft> that means if i decide I want to convert a tString to a tCoord i have to edit tString to make VC6 happy? that sucks
07:38 <Gnorty> hey :)
07:38 <Gnorty> wrtl - HUD questions :)
07:39 <Gnorty> is a coloured label possible? I think you already said no, but wanted to check
07:39 <Self_Destructo> colored label?
07:40 <Gnorty> yes. a label on the hud in a arbitrary color
07:40 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, but it's the job of the VC6 compatibility maintainer, not you :)
07:40 <wrtlprnft> uh, color codes, yes
07:40 <wrtlprnft> but yes, there should be an easier way
07:40 <Gnorty> ah. so if I did like text=0xff000Redlabel" it would work?
07:40 <z-man> and the compatibility maintainer is about to give up and force everyone to switch to vc8 :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> it should, yes
07:41 <Gnorty> that is good enough for me, thanks :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> look at the scores label in the default HUD ;)
07:41 <Gnorty> also the wiki could use a tutorial on tables :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> uh, tutorial?
07:41 <wrtlprnft> what's so hard about it?
07:42 <Gnorty> aye, the HUD tutorial on the wiki ignores tables at present
07:42 <wrtlprnft> a table has rows and coloumns, that's about it
07:42 <wrtlprnft> oh, does it?
07:42 <Gnorty> but the data_source is tricky to work out
07:42 <wrtlprnft> data_source
07:42 <wrtlprnft> ?
07:43 <Gnorty> erm, my bad
07:43 <Gnorty> I meant to say AtomicData Source
07:43 <z-man> GRRR, The service pack didn't fix the error.
07:44 <Gnorty> not too hard, I figured it eventually, but still...
07:44 <z-man> That's it, VC6 is history.
07:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
07:44 <wrtlprnft> what was the last thing to get you to do it?
07:44 <z-man> Well, what can we do with a compiler that can't even generate a simple wrapper function?
07:45 <wrtlprnft> i don't really care, the fact that we offer two windows build seems to confuse people anyways
07:45 <Gnorty> I have to go shopping :( see you later
07:45 <z-man> Yes, that's another point
07:45 <wrtlprnft> write assembly language instead!
07:45 <wrtlprnft> so the compiler doesn't need to worry about it
07:45 <z-man> haha
08:21 <guru3> back
--- Log closed Sat May 20 08:43:44 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 09:21:53 2006
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09:26 * McSpiddles trips wrtlprnft
--- Log closed Sat May 20 09:30:07 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 09:30:29 2006
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09:30 <Gnorty> http://gnorty.is-a-geek.com/images/screenshot_64.png
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09:32 <Gnorty> I would reduce the text size on the speed/brake guages and add captions, but I am happy with how it is
--- Log closed Sat May 20 09:43:51 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 17:58:06 2006
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18:00 <n54> so I posted at one and I'm supposed to see it in the other right?
--- Log closed Sat May 20 18:05:21 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 18:43:30 2006
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--- Log opened Sat May 20 20:13:43 2006
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20:51 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
20:52 <wrtlprnft> why is my internet connection down more often than it is up? i get disconnected all the time...
20:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191227.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:54 <wrtlprnft> hi, bye i guess
20:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, sh***, i guess we missed the spoon match against AW... i was away
21:17 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090BAC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:24 * McSpiddles sighs
21:25 <McSpiddles> i spent over 3 hours configuring a mysql db,installing/setting up a phpbb2 forum and finishing a webpage :|
21:33 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.141.135] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:18 -!- Netsplit clarke.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: wejp, guru3, deja_vu, SuPeRTaRD
22:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: deja_vu, wejp, SuPeRTaRD, guru3
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22:34 * Lucifer_arma is back.
22:35 <n54> hey did you see the alternatie to curses in python I messaged you?
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I did. But I thought about it some more. :)
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> Curses is for serial terminal text-based interfaces, right?
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> when I get one of those 2/4-line LCDs, what is it, exactly?
22:37 <n54> hmM
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm thinking the curses UI I build now should remain, and I"ll add graphical elements at some point when I get one of those LCDs.
22:38 <n54> might be more like any display
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> When I hook up an LCD to the regular video out, then I'll look at SDL or something and *keep* the curses UI going.
22:38 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: what about the match today?
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> I might have to change how I poll for input, though.
22:39 <n54> they had regular video out? I thought it was usb and something else like perhaps serial
22:39 <McSpiddles> eh?
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> I did the last hardware test I could and actually hooked it up in the car. Works, but no software. So the remaining work to be done is software. :)
22:39 <n54> :)
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, the computer has several types of video outs...
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> the lcd screens tank linked to are serial connections
22:39 <McSpiddles> what time is it wrtl?
22:40 <n54> ah ok
22:40 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: uh, it was supposed to happen 2 hours 40 mins ago
22:40 <McSpiddles> well fuck
22:40 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't there and hoped you guys would get it running...
22:40 <McSpiddles> i've been busy,plus putting up with a girlfriend that's outta her goddamn mind
22:41 <McSpiddles> so i been pretty much tied up
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> freaky girl
22:41 <wrtlprnft> screw girlfriends ;)
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> I like that
22:41 <McSpiddles> freaky,no
22:41 <n54> psycho = !good
22:41 <McSpiddles> steal your heart then break it,yes :|
22:41 <McSpiddles> like 3 times :/
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> well, the first time was a mistake. The second time ws stupid. I won't even try to suggest what the third time was.
22:42 <McSpiddles> hard to explain
22:42 <n54> love
22:42 <McSpiddles> yea :/
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: ok,if this is melanie,you can pm when you're not outta your goddamn mind
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: ...
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: ....
22:42 <McSpiddles> BUZZ!!!
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie:
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: if you're melanie,when was the last time we talked,besides today
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: Thursday
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: lmfao
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: When I was babysitting for my dad...my dad got on my comp. account the other night
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: your number is 642-9348
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: I think lol
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: you wasn't babysitting thursday
22:43 <McSpiddles> spidey: we didn't even talk thursday
22:43 <McSpiddles> spidey:
22:43 <McSpiddles> i'm thinking about taking someones advice,for those few months i didn't talk to you,there wasn't i day i didn't think about you,when i was in town i hoped i'd see you at one of the stores we was going to,it maybe just the ages difference that i let get to me,or maybe i actually was in love with you,who knows,i'll bbl
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, quit dating 12-year olds
22:43 <McSpiddles> 12?
22:43 <wrtlprnft> yay! my logs rotated!
22:43 <McSpiddles> she's 19...
22:43 <wrtlprnft> finally i can stop dealing with 150MB log files
22:44 <wrtlprnft> uh, well, on the server they did, on my laptop they did not :(
22:45 <McSpiddles> wrtl,did we forfiet or play it out?
22:45 <wrtlprnft> i have no clue
22:45 <McSpiddles> and next time make armabot tell me
22:45 <wrtlprnft> not seen an aw
22:45 <McSpiddles> i wasn't aware the match was even rescheduled
22:45 <wrtlprnft> uh, i sent you an armabot message
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh, well I don't know what to tell you spidey. One of my personl requirements for women has always been decisiveness. I don't do this Ross Perot Romance bullshit. Either you're in, or you're not, and I don't give second chances without a really damn good reason.
22:45 * wrtlprnft blames Lucifer_arma and his bot ;)
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> I definitely don't give third chances.
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes spidey
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for guru3.
22:46 * Lucifer_arma blames the fact that spidey uses so many different nicknames.
22:46 <McSpiddles> well,i lost count of the number of chances,3 was a random number
22:46 <wrtlprnft> uh, they got reset?
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes guru3
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 4 hours and 40 minutes ago: <n54> in the new forums visited posts aren't flagged as having been visited after you've read them, big usability issue there :S
22:46 <n54> yay for Lucifer! :D ross perot romance... lol XD
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I didn't see anything that looked current. Sorry if anything disappeared... :(
22:47 <McSpiddles> forums,blah
22:47 <n54> #notes
22:47 <armabot> n54: I currently have notes waiting for guru3.
22:47 <wrtlprnft> probably i didn't send the note to McSpiddles but to spidey
22:47 <n54> good
22:47 <McSpiddles> phpbb2 was a bitch to install,the mysql was all fucked up
22:47 <McSpiddles> http://fallinangels.no-ip.biz/
22:47 <wrtlprnft> and then they disappeared when you reset them...
22:47 <McSpiddles> but i got the site some done and the forums set up
22:48 <wrtlprnft> echo "dev-lang/php apache2" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge apache2 php mysql
22:48 <wrtlprnft> that's about it for setting up those 3 :D
22:50 <wrtlprnft> uh, i think you have to add mysql to the USE flags too, but maybe it's default
22:51 <n54> 30-0= <-- a moose from the front
22:51 <n54> 30-8= <-- a moose from the back
22:51 <n54> :D
22:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell guru3 is it intended that the smiley on the forums (in the description of the "Welcome" forum) is linking to http://guru3.sytes.net/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif , which is a 404?
22:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:55 <n54> hmm which smiley is it? some of them were made by me and might not have been put where the other usually are or something like that
22:57 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:57 <wrtlprnft> it links to guru3.sytes.net instead of forums.armagetronad.net
23:00 <wrtlprnft> and it's the standard smiley face
23:00 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:00 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:00 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
23:07 <McSpiddles> #later tell wrtlprnft armabot is your friend
23:07 <armabot> McSpiddles: The operation succeeded.
23:08 <McSpiddles> i'ma do what wrtl's doing
23:08 <McSpiddles> bbl
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23:59 -!- Netsplit over, joins: deja_vu
Log from 2006-05-21:
--- Day changed Sun May 21 2006
00:03 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
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00:16 <Lucifer_arma> hey, my curses script just started spontaneously restoring the terminal back to how it was. So the problem it had is gone now. that's good. :)
00:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SuPeRTaRD
00:19 <n54> ?? restoring the terminal?
00:19 <n54> what problem did it have?
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> it left me with a terminal that wouldn't echo output
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> er, input
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> so I couldn't see what I was typing :)
00:22 <n54> oh
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking of going with Tank's suggestion to use debian instead of dsl
00:23 <n54> yeah?
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> dsl looks really good for the purpose, but I'm concerned about starting in with a completely new distribution.
00:24 <n54> did it lack pyhon or something like that?
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> it lacks python in the base install, but it's in the repo.
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> might also lack moosic, I didn't check. I'm willing to build from source if necessary for some of this stuff, though.
00:24 <n54> mm yeah I don't think it will feel completely new though but hey it's something easily changed anyhow :)
00:25 <n54> yeah probably lacks moosic
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is. :)
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm definitely leaning towards a LFS sort of thing in the vision.
00:25 <n54> you could even multiboot if your eqlly want to ;) j/k
00:25 <n54> really*
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to say "customize mandrake" or "customize debian".
00:26 * Lucifer_arma wonders how easy it is to build a custom debian anyway
00:26 <n54> I don't know, the thing about LFS that appeals to me is that you wont have to decide allt he stuff to cut, instead you can build from the bottom up with only what you need - still I haven't done that either (yet) :D
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that same trait is there with gentoo, actually. The advantage gentoo brings is portage.
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> but there's something to be said for making a custom package manager for the task. A desktop package manager will likely incur dependency resolutions that will just bloat the system without adding anything useful
00:28 <n54> but then I fell in loe with obsd so first thing first for me (i.e. I won't get anywhere before years have passed lol)
00:28 <n54> love*
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> space isn't really at a premium in the long run, I'll get a bigger hard drive.
00:28 <n54> yeah but your not wanting a desktop so...
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> last I saw, *bsd had, umm, I don't want to say bad hardware support, but maybe not general purpose hardware support?
00:29 <GodTodd> that brings up my question....i'm looking to make a linux box.....i've downloaded the gentoo iso because it looks to be the most customizable distro...is that a decent place to start?
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> how about "I feel more confident that Linux will support most of the hardware I throw at it, and I'm already going to be looking at using obscure hardware"
00:29 <n54> absolutely right, it's not what it's made for, at least not obsd, so don't use for that unless you really want to :)
00:29 <n54> use it*
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I wouldn't, to be honest. Or rather, I didn't. :)
00:30 <GodTodd> well...i know...you liked mandrake...is that a better jumping off point?
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> there are levels of customizability that you have to consider. FOr a new user, Gentoo doesn't provide any more customizability imo than anybody else
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> where gentoo's customizable is much closer to the metal. in fact, consider the questions I'm asking about this car computer and ask yourself "Am I asking these same kinds of questions for a desktop?"
00:31 <n54> I think any will do GodTodd, people change distros like underwear anyhow ;D
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> if the answer is "no", go with Kubuntu or Mandriva. :)
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> actually, ummm, hang on
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/node/17
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> y'all know I hate repeating myself.... ;)
00:32 <GodTodd> lol :P
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> Towel Day is in 4 days. Don't forget your towel on May 25! Show everyone how froopy you really are.
00:33 <GodTodd> main thing i'm looking for is the learning factor and hardware support
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't list Kubuntu on there, but it's what I'm using now, so think about it carefully
00:34 <n54> towel day?
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> towel day = douglas adams's birthday
00:35 <GodTodd> kubuntu....that a good one....says it's an easy to use distro....
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> umm, go with Mandriva. You can throw it away later if you need to.
00:35 <n54> or knoppix (it also uses kde by deafult)
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> Kubuntu is a really nice distribution, but there are, um, traits that I don't know how they look to a noob
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, go with your gut. :)
00:35 <n54> default*
00:35 <n54> yeah any will do really
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> If you use Kubuntu, I can give current help. If you use Mandriva I'll just say "Well, last time I used it it was like this..."
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> If you use pretty much anything else, sorry from me.
00:36 <GodTodd> well...i've run a couple linux distros before....just didn't get too into the guts when my dialup wouldn't work on them....that's how long its been :)
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> however
00:36 <n54> and if you ever want to learn about real *nix then try a bsd ;D
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> anjori (who's absent presently) really digs MEPIS
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> he (she? never have found out) says MEPIS is really good for new users
00:37 <GodTodd> hmmm....i'll look into that one too...
00:37 <n54> on internet? check! on irc? check! cender male? 89% positive!
00:37 <GodTodd> karen basically gave me the kitchen machine today to do with what i please ;)
00:38 <n54> netbsd can run on a toaster... in case it's _that_ kind of a kitchen machine :)
00:38 <GodTodd> well....it's a snail with XPensive on it
00:39 <GodTodd> i'd get the sys stats...but i don't have the patience for an 8 hour wait ;)
00:39 <GodTodd> heh
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> I'd have to say the most important part of my own experience has nothing to do with which distribution you pick
00:39 <n54> yes, the important stuff is all more or less the same anyhow
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> See, at first I did it as a dual-boot, figuring I could keep working and doing important stuff in Windows and "evaluate" linux at my leisure
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> that meant the evaluation never happened.
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> Reason? If I dont' actually work and do important stuff on it, how the hell can I know if it's any good for me?
00:40 <n54> yes I fell in the same trap way back when I ran redhat
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> mind you, I don't play with operating systems. And I don't switch much.
00:40 <GodTodd> exactly...that's how it was with my 5 boot system back then
00:40 <n54> more than one machine is the solution really
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> Sure, there are people who collect operating systems and just play around with them.
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not one of them.
00:41 <n54> I am :) but I don't collect distros
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> So when I finally realized what was going on, I backed up the system, reformatted with just Mandrake on it, and went from there
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> never looked back.
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> so whatever you do, make sure you've got a good idea why you're doing it to begin with and try to have some realistic view of how it'll actually work.
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> I think too many people fail not just at using Linux but at all sorts of other things because they just jump in without really knowing why they were jumping in
00:42 <GodTodd> yeah....that's why i want to start with one machine....once i know what to expect then i'll reformat my laptop
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> that's a good idea. :) I have to admit that my dual boot experience also provided me with an idea what to expect, and I couldn't have jumped in later without it.
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> how old is the laptop?
00:43 <GodTodd> heh....it's a lot like religion....i only jumped into windows because it was what i knew....now that i can choose i don't want windows heh
00:43 <GodTodd> bought it around thanksgiving
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> brand spanking new?
00:44 <n54> it should _not_ be like religion, really :)
00:44 <GodTodd> kinda....sempron processor....7 or 800 MHz....
00:44 <n54> dell?
00:44 <GodTodd> hp
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> hmm. Better take an inventory of all the pieces-parts and google them with "linux" appended
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> linux on laptops isn't pretty.
00:45 <GodTodd> yeah
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> there's a chance you stumbled across the hp laptop tht also comes ina linux flavor and you wont' have any problems, though. :)
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> Does it have wireless ethernet?
00:45 <GodTodd> well...i had redhat on a previous laptop 2 or 3 years ago....ran better than xp did heh
00:45 <GodTodd> yes
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> what's the card it uses?
00:45 <GodTodd> i'd hafta dig for that info
00:45 <GodTodd> it's integrated
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> better find out. I think Sempron has as one of its available wireless adapters the evil broadcom one.
00:47 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:47 * Luke-Jr notes his experience w/ Linux on a laptop was okay
00:48 <Luke-Jr> w/o planning
00:48 <Luke-Jr> but it didn't involve WiFi either =p
00:48 <GodTodd> hmmm....just how much trouble would wireless connectivity in linux be WITH the broadcom WLAN?
00:48 <GodTodd> :/
00:49 <n54> it would probably require some digging, but afaik wlan stuff is getting pretty good, some people take drivers from netbsd too, but in general it seems it's an easy stumbeling block
00:50 <n54> /s/easy/common
00:50 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: depends on what kind of connectivity
00:50 * n54 avoids using wireless, no personal experience
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I think you could get WEP-less 802.11
00:50 <Luke-Jr> *with very experimental drivers
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> you have to install ndiswrapper and use the windows driver
00:50 <Luke-Jr> nonsense
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm using it here on my laptop, so it's possible :)
00:51 <Luke-Jr> you need to compile CVS code for Broadcom drivers
00:51 <Luke-Jr> the hard work of many developers doing a clean-room reverse engineer
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> In fact, Kubuntu's worked like a charm out of the box, whereas the last Mandriva I ran required me to download the newest ndiswrappers and build it from source
00:51 <Luke-Jr> someone should tell Luci ndiswrapper is dumb and unnecessary now =p
00:51 <Luke-Jr> since he's ignoring me
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> the other thing that can be hard is getting the right resolution
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> used to be that Mandrake only shipped with 4:3 aspect ratios in their x config file. So if you had a wide screen, you had to hack that file, and it wasn't easy.
00:53 <Luke-Jr> X -configure
00:53 <GodTodd> i'm kinda leaning toward kubuntu i think....as a first step....well a first step in years ;)
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> this laptop had a particularly nasty problem in Mandriva that I don't even entirely remember, just that I wound up doing trial and error with very dangerous config items
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> I've got the NForce chipset, which includes an onboard GeForce II or something like that, which is well supported.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> it was just the particular LCD that's in here that I had to hack to account for.
00:54 <Luke-Jr> nVidia stuff isn't well supported generally
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> Most everything else works pretty well, but those two particular shitbangers aren't just things that don't work well often enough for my tastes,
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> they're also a really big pain in the wazzooo to fix
00:55 <Luke-Jr> ideal is an ATi 9250 chipset
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> 3d acceleration is also touch and go sometimes, depends entirely on your adapter
00:55 <Luke-Jr> 3D is no-go with nVidia or ATi post-9250
00:56 <GodTodd> ati radeon xpress 200M for the laptop adapter it seems
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> and again, Mandriva had me download the binary nvidia drivers from nvidia's website, which then had to build their adapter because they didn't support my kernel already, and failed to build because of a silly bug
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> I'd expect good ati support in general, but I've never experienced it because I've never had an ati (except in my now-deceased thinkpad, but 3d acceleration was a laughing matter on tht thing)
00:57 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: eck
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> but Kubuntu gave me the nvidia drivers and they just worked out of the box.
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> now, that all said and done, Kubuntu hasn't been the paradise it might sound like.
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> apt-get will refuse to install stuff if it breaks other things, which is a good thing, right? But, hmmm.
00:58 <GodTodd> not looking for paradise...would actually prefer a FEW problems so that i can fix them
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> Say you have library a.1, and program b depends on a.2. a.1 and a.2 are binary compatible with each other.
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> half your system depends on a.1 and will automatically uninstall if you uninstall a.1. But you'd like to fool with program b.
00:58 <n54> hehe
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> so sometimes apt-get will tell you that a.2 and a.1 can't be installed together, and it'll refuse to install program b because of it's a.2 dependency
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> so you have to install a.1-devel and build program b from source if you want it.
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> not terribly painful, but Kubuntu aims to not require people to do that, and we're tlaking packages int heir repository.
01:00 <Luke-Jr> lame
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> here's an annoyance bug, and I really mean "bug". If I unplug my usb laser printer and plug it into a different port, Mandriva disables it.
01:02 <GodTodd> heh
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> Erm, I think the server's running Mandrake, from before the name change.
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, and in case it ever matters, forget about sharing home directories across distributions. I've had to cleanup so much shit from sharing my home directory between Mandriva and Kubuntu.
01:05 <GodTodd> mandrake 8.1....that's from a while ago, isn't it? ;)
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> I used to have a lost+found menu item that hovering over it filled up my whole screen
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, Mandrake 8.1's pretty old now
01:06 <GodTodd> i figured....since i installed it like 5 years or so ago
01:06 <GodTodd> heh
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> hm, that sounds about right.
01:06 <Luke-Jr> ilol
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> I think I started with that one.
01:06 <GodTodd> yeah...that's the first one i did
01:06 <GodTodd> that and redhat 8
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> RedHat 7.2 is the one I installed on the dual-booter intending to evaluate Linux.
01:07 <GodTodd> 7.2 is what came with my linux book in college
01:08 <Luke-Jr> the first I tried was RedHat 5.2, IIRC
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you want to get the fuzzies during installation, Mandriva's installer was looking damn nice. Kubuntu's looks like it's still curses-based
01:08 <GodTodd> well....ok...it was actually a unix class...but it was 'learning unix using linux'
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> I could be smoking something, though.
01:08 <GodTodd> wow...i actually have a slackware 1.0 cd...
01:08 <GodTodd> :/
01:08 <Luke-Jr> saw it at a computer fair thing and said "I think I heard something about that" so bought it =p
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke, I think. And ponder this car player script I'm working on
01:09 <GodTodd> have fun :)
01:10 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: ...
01:11 <GodTodd> yep?
01:11 <Luke-Jr> just was wondering if I'm on your ignore list also
01:11 <Luke-Jr> and my comments aren't going into /dev/null
01:11 <GodTodd> nope...i don't ignore anyone
01:11 <Luke-Jr> heh
01:11 <Luke-Jr> neither do I
01:11 <Luke-Jr> thought I pretend to once in a while
01:11 <Luke-Jr> though*
01:11 <Luke-Jr> ignoring is broken in concept, IMO
01:12 <Luke-Jr> it will just confuse the ignorer =p
01:12 <GodTodd> i'm one of those that likes to see people act stupid...and if you ignore them then that takes the fun out of life heh
01:13 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:15 * Luke-Jr pokes at filenames with spaces
01:16 <GodTodd> fuck that....i'm not paying for a linux trial run
01:16 <GodTodd> heh
01:16 <GodTodd> mepis is out
01:17 <Luke-Jr> mepis isn't too new...
01:18 <GodTodd> oh wait...nvm....found the ftp mirrors
01:18 <GodTodd> must be that you pay for support
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> class MoosicPlayer(object): <---- :)
02:12 <GodTodd> once the kubuntu iso is burnt, the resulting disk is bootable, right?
02:13 <n54> yeah
02:13 <GodTodd> k
02:13 <GodTodd> not going to mess with it tonight/this morning i don't think...but should have the disk needed now :)
02:13 <n54> :)
02:18 <guru3> back
02:18 <n54> hi :)
02:19 <n54> btw in case you haven't noticed there's an ongoing attack on freenode by some loser cracker, just do you don't be surprised if someone drops by, changes the topic, kicks people etc. etc.
02:19 <n54> so*
02:19 <guru3> ok...
02:20 <n54> it's mainly in #freenode-social and #wikipedia and other larger channels
02:20 <guru3> k
02:20 <guru3> btw, what was the last post you made on the test forums?
02:21 <n54> hmm me wondering about Gnorty comparing ali with osama and some such
02:21 <n54> nothing important, just my puzzlement :)
02:22 <guru3> that's what i thought
02:22 <n54> but the threads didn't go "read" after I read new ones, probably a db thing
02:22 <guru3> they have for me
02:23 <n54> hmm ok
02:24 <n54> I usually hit refresh after moving through the new stuff page, and usually (always before) that changes "new" to "read" if you get what I mean, didn't happen when testing
02:25 <guru3> more people need to post
02:25 <n54> yeah
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> yay. object-oriented media player now :)
02:26 <n54> hehe
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> but man, moosic's default settings just plain don't work.
02:27 <n54> really?
02:27 <n54> huh
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. :(
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> it could be Kubuntu's defaults, or Kubuntu just has crappy builds of the underlying programs
02:28 <n54> you could always mail him, looks like a small personal project so he might appreciate it a lot
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to hack on it sooner or later. :) It doesn't recover smoothly when it doesn't work, for example if sox is missing.
02:29 <n54> ok
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> I should probably start listing the programs needed and trace through all the dependencies. Anything I do for building the distribution will be better if I know exactly what I need. :)
02:30 <n54> :)
02:40 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o n54] by ChanServ
02:40 <guru3> wow that does work
02:40 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o n54] by ChanServ
02:40 <n54> yup
02:40 <guru3> breakfast bbl
02:40 <n54> cya
02:52 <guru3> back
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07:48 <wrtlprnft> yay the smiley is fixed :)
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08:22 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: would you mind installing that antispam hack i made? they're spamming everyday around midnight, it's annoying
08:23 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma would you mind installing that antispam hack i made? they're spamming everyday around midnight, it's annoying
08:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles ok, there is a match against AW at 1AM CDT/8PM GMT today. I won't be there, I trust you guys to organize yourselves
09:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo ok, there is a match against AW at 1AM CDT/8PM GMT today. I won't be there, I trust you guys to organize yourselves
09:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:05 <McSpiddles> qrtl
09:05 <McSpiddles> wrtl
09:05 <McSpiddles> what's that gmt -6?
09:05 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles
09:05 <wrtlprnft> that's your time zone
09:05 <McSpiddles> i think
09:05 <wrtlprnft> it's 11 hours from now
09:05 <wrtlprnft> and it's gmt-5
09:06 <wrtlprnft> ack
09:06 <McSpiddles> all i know is i'm central :p
09:06 <wrtlprnft> wrong way
09:06 <McSpiddles> no
09:06 <wrtlprnft> 1AM GMT/8PM CDT
09:06 <McSpiddles> it's gmt -6
09:06 <McSpiddles> my time
09:06 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:06 <wrtlprnft> that would be CST
09:06 <McSpiddles> gmt -6 is central time US&Canada
09:06 <wrtlprnft> CDT is daylight savings time
09:07 <wrtlprnft> trust me, during summer it is gmt-5
09:07 <McSpiddles> k
09:07 <McSpiddles> anways
09:07 <McSpiddles> so it's at
09:07 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo sorry, mixup. It should say 1AM GMT/8PM CDT
09:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:07 <McSpiddles> 8?
09:07 <McSpiddles> 8pm*?
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes. 8PM, 20:00
09:08 <McSpiddles> k
09:08 <wrtlprnft> whatever it is in 8 hours 52 minutes from now
09:08 <McSpiddles> post in the city?
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:08 <McSpiddles> 8 hours?
09:08 <McSpiddles> you said 11 >.>
09:08 <wrtlprnft> ack
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes, 11
09:08 <wrtlprnft> s10 hours 51 minutes
09:09 <wrtlprnft> 10 hours 51 minutes
09:09 <McSpiddles> lol
09:09 <McSpiddles> yea i think that's about 8pm
09:09 <wrtlprnft> go to the city sometime before the match starts and tell people...
09:09 <wrtlprnft> and kick some ass!
09:10 <McSpiddles> :p
09:10 <McSpiddles> why not post now
09:10 <McSpiddles> so people will know ahead of time
09:10 <wrtlprnft> it is posted, but people tend not to read it
09:10 <wrtlprnft> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=88958#88958
09:11 <McSpiddles> hmm
09:11 <McSpiddles> ebder can't play
09:11 <McSpiddles> :s
09:11 <McSpiddles> ender*
09:11 <wrtlprnft> how do you know?
09:12 <McSpiddles> sry for missing. Sad i wont be on the grid much for a little while.
09:12 <McSpiddles> plus
09:12 <McSpiddles> SD won't be back till monday
09:12 <wrtlprnft> that post is more than a month old
09:12 <McSpiddles> i so knew that
09:12 <McSpiddles> :s
09:12 <wrtlprnft> look at the date
09:12 <McSpiddles> yea,just saw it
09:12 <McSpiddles> lol
09:13 <wrtlprnft> sure you can talk to 2020 and try to move it
09:13 <McSpiddles> why won't you be here?
09:13 <McSpiddles> :/
09:13 <wrtlprnft> birthday party of someone
09:13 <wrtlprnft> real life :P
09:13 <McSpiddles> lol
09:13 <McSpiddles> k
09:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870C23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
09:14 <McSpiddles> so
09:14 <McSpiddles> if we lose this one we're out?
09:14 <wrtlprnft> yep
09:14 <z-man> spoon trouble?
09:14 <McSpiddles> then i guess i can't let that happen :p
09:14 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:14 <wrtlprnft> then play, get people on the grid :P
09:15 <McSpiddles> yea,yea
09:15 <McSpiddles> i wanna make breakfast,but i'm too tired to get up
09:15 <wrtlprnft> if you want high- ping practice, my spoon server is up
09:15 <McSpiddles> :/
09:16 <McSpiddles> all we really need is ota,eagle,kan,and me
09:16 <wrtlprnft> it should have about the same settings and features as z-man's, but it can only hold 8 people
09:16 <McSpiddles> which server?
09:16 <wrtlprnft> uh, and i can give you the admin_pass if you really want
09:17 <wrtlprnft> "wrtl's spoon fortress"
09:17 <McSpiddles> your server?
09:17 <McSpiddles> k
09:17 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:18 <McSpiddles> eh
09:18 <McSpiddles> i forgot
09:18 <McSpiddles> it's been raining all night
09:18 <McSpiddles> :/
09:18 <wrtlprnft> but, of course it's CVS HEAD, so the code is different than z-man's servers
09:18 <McSpiddles> is there gonna be a match on z-man's spoon server at the same time?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> and it has the shooting hack, but i disabled it
09:19 <wrtlprnft> no
09:19 <McSpiddles> why not use his,my ping's between 160-180 on it
09:19 <wrtlprnft> but you wanted me to create that server a while ago, and there it is
09:19 <McSpiddles> yea,for practice :p
09:19 <wrtlprnft> mine is not suitable for matches anyways
09:19 <wrtlprnft> limit of 8 ppl
09:19 <McSpiddles> cause we're gonna need alot of it,if we win this one
09:20 <wrtlprnft> then go, get people together. i have to go in 10 minutes
09:20 <wrtlprnft> I'll be back at around 2PM, but only for a bit more than an hour
09:20 <McSpiddles> k,i'll watch my little armaspy thingy :p
09:21 <wrtlprnft> :D
09:21 <McSpiddles> and eat breakfast,if i ever get off my ass
09:21 <McSpiddles> oh,i might not be able to play
09:21 <wrtlprnft> D:
09:21 <McSpiddles> unless the rain dries up quick
09:22 <McSpiddles> my ping was pretty high in cvs
09:22 <wrtlprnft> that auomatically means we lose
09:22 <McSpiddles> i can try,but if it keeps raining i'ma slide like bitch
09:22 <wrtlprnft> nice internet connection you have
09:22 <McSpiddles> no shit
09:22 <McSpiddles> charter doesn't use weather proof cable box's
09:23 <McSpiddles> reminds me,i forgot to call and bitch about it
09:23 <wrtlprnft> lol
09:24 <McSpiddles> when i upgrade to the 5mbit line,my ping should drop to 130-140
09:24 <McSpiddles> "when it doesn't rain"
09:24 <wrtlprnft> 5mbit up or down?
09:24 <McSpiddles> down
09:24 <wrtlprnft> bah
09:24 <McSpiddles> i got 3mbit now
09:24 <McSpiddles> lol
09:24 <wrtlprnft> don't think it'll help
09:25 <wrtlprnft> what's your uprate?
09:25 <McSpiddles> of course it will,my upload will go from 256 to around 765
09:25 <McSpiddles> or something like that
09:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm nice
09:25 <McSpiddles> that'd be around 80kb/s up
09:25 <wrtlprnft> at home it is 512 up and it still only hosts 8 players :(
09:25 <McSpiddles> i get like 30kb/s 40 on a good day
09:25 <McSpiddles> only?
09:25 <McSpiddles> dude
09:26 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:26 <McSpiddles> i can have 5-8 on mine when i host it
09:26 <McSpiddles> with good pings
09:26 <McSpiddles> if i stop all other services
09:26 <McSpiddles> heh
09:26 <wrtlprnft> that's probably because my server sucks
09:26 <wrtlprnft> 400MH
09:26 <wrtlprnft> z
09:26 <McSpiddles> hmmm
09:26 <McSpiddles> sec
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09:27 <wrtlprnft> well, g2g, cya
09:27 <spidey> i have 2 of these box's
09:27 <spidey> OS: WinXP Professional 5.1 (Build #2600) CPU: Intel Pentium IV, 2.19 GHz Video: Plug and Play Monitor on Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller (1280x1024x32bpp 60Hz) Sound: SoundMAX Digital Audio Memory: Used: 265/376MB Uptime: 2d 8h 3m 51s HD: [C:] 75.90/111.75 GB [D:] 8.81/12.72 GB Connection: ADMtek AN983 based ethernet adapter - Packet Scheduler Miniport @ 100.0 Mbps (Rec: 1080.47MB Sent:
09:27 <McSpiddles> k,cya
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09:56 <ghableska> hello
09:56 <MaZuffeR> hi ghab
09:56 <ghableska> hi maz
10:00 <ghableska> how are you?
10:00 <MaZuffeR> good
10:06 <guru3> n54: i see what you mean now
10:07 <guru3> i think that's caused by the domain stuff
10:07 <guru3> but i'm not 100% sure
10:59 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
11:59 <guru3> well
11:59 <guru3> because the forums are being slow
11:59 <guru3> i them up on a distributed database
12:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: is there any documentation on sensors? I'm kinda helpless...
12:02 <z-man> I'm afraid not
12:02 <wrtlprnft> i just want to find the nearest wall to a given cycle
12:02 <guru3> wrtlprnft: look at the chatbot code
12:02 <guru3> it's used there
12:03 <guru3> like exactly as you describe wanting to use it
12:03 <wrtlprnft> what's is that the general AI code?
12:03 <z-man> Right, the chatbot code is a good choice
12:03 <wrtlprnft> i was trying the camera, with no success
12:03 <guru3> chatbot code is reactive
12:03 <guru3> the main ai code
12:03 <guru3> is much more
12:03 <wrtlprnft> you know, how the smartcam moves up if you are close to a wall
12:04 <guru3> yeah
12:04 <guru3> well
12:04 <guru3> chatbot is the place
12:04 <guru3> gSensors up in there
12:04 <z-man> The chatbot resides in gCycle::Timestep
12:05 <guru3> it checks the one
12:05 <guru3> is chatting flag
12:05 <z-man> can't miss it, comment says "activate chat AI"
12:05 <wrtlprnft> oh, thanks, i was already looking
12:05 <wrtlprnft> didn't found a gChatbot or gAutoPilit
12:05 <wrtlprnft> *didn't find
12:05 <z-man> Yeah, it's to primitive it doesn't even get a class of its own :)
12:06 <guru3> i did write my own variants a while back
12:06 <guru3> some of them were actually ok
12:10 <wrtlprnft> ah, sweet. Thanks
12:12 <wrtlprnft> uh, do those things eat lots of CPU? how big should i set the range?
12:13 <z-man> As big as you need it
12:14 <z-man> They aren't really resource intensive, every cylce casts five per frame
12:14 <z-man> short ranged ones, that is
12:14 <z-man> but sensors across the whole map are probably a bad idea right now :)
12:15 <guru3> i set up the database bit from my home server to the forums server in compressed ssh tunnels as suggested
12:15 <z-man> I always wanted to make them actually stop on the first hit, but never came around to do that
12:16 <wrtlprnft> well, i want to make it a callback for the cockpit, and they can't take parameters
12:16 <guru3> lol
12:19 <wrtlprnft> well, I'll just assume that you're not interested in a wall that's more than 5 seconds away
12:20 <guru3> you're doing distances in terms of time?
12:20 <wrtlprnft> well
12:20 <wrtlprnft> the speed of the cycle times 5 seconds, of course
12:24 <guru3> *groan*
12:24 <wrtlprnft> hah, that gauge is sweet. That'll be a huge advantage on fortress
12:24 <guru3> times are going to be a big issue
12:24 <wrtlprnft> so you know if that guy outgrinded you or not
12:24 <guru3> really
12:24 <guru3> the sensors need to tell you the speed of who evers wall it is
12:25 <wrtlprnft> i could do that, but what's the point?
12:25 <guru3> well if the guy is right next to you on your right
12:25 <guru3> hmm
12:25 <guru3> it just seemed like a useful idea
12:26 <guru3> domain name resolutions in a webbrowser are usually cached right>
12:26 <guru3> ?
12:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, i think so
12:26 <wrtlprnft> depends on the browser
12:26 <guru3> okay
12:26 <wrtlprnft> and some routers have their own caching DNS proxy
12:27 <guru3> that's ok then
12:27 <wrtlprnft> depends on the browser == IE doesn't
12:28 <guru3> blargh
12:28 <wrtlprnft> :P
12:28 <wrtlprnft> at least i think so
12:28 <guru3> yeah but there's a windows service iirc
12:28 <guru3> that caches
12:28 <guru3> and is enabled by default
12:29 <wrtlprnft> might be. I'm not into windows
12:29 <guru3> ok i've just synced the clocks on the two servers
12:30 <guru3> hopefully that won't fuck up too much other stuff...
12:33 -!- philippeqc2 [n=ph@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
12:49 <McSpiddles> wrtl
12:49 <McSpiddles> you back till the match?
12:50 <wrtlprnft> no
12:50 <McSpiddles> :(
12:50 <wrtlprnft> I'll be gone at around 3
12:55 <McSpiddles> i'ma go see what my ping's like it stopped raining
12:55 <McSpiddles> brb
13:01 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
13:01 <ghableska> hi
13:07 <wrtlprnft> hi there
13:08 * ghableska has computer problems... :(
13:08 <wrtlprnft> of what kind?
13:08 <ghableska> not sure
13:09 <ghableska> see, everything was running fine yesterday, and when I started my computer up today, I got this weird error message
13:09 <wrtlprnft> what message?
13:10 <ghableska> That said "The application or DLL C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVCP71.dll is not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your installation diskette.
13:10 <wrtlprnft> and it still boots?
13:11 <ghableska> if I try to start up norton antivirus, it gives me the same message
13:11 <ghableska> yes, it boots up
13:11 <ghableska> but a few other windows programs aren't working either
13:11 <wrtlprnft> hmm. might be a virus, not sure
13:11 <ghableska> :(
13:12 <ghableska> and the windows search isn't working...
13:12 <ghableska> or error-checking
13:13 <wrtlprnft> no real clue, sorry
13:13 <ghableska> that's fine
13:15 <GodTodd> replace the dll
13:15 <GodTodd> Microsoft� C Runtime Library, v. 7.10.3077.0
13:15 <ghableska> hmm?
13:15 <GodTodd> that error is usually a corrupt dll
13:16 <GodTodd> just dl and install a new copy
13:16 <ghableska> where could I download a dll?
13:17 <GodTodd> http://www.dll-download.net/msvcp71.html
13:17 <ghableska> thansk
13:17 <ghableska> *thanks
13:18 <ghableska> brb
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13:24 <ghableska> it didn't work
13:24 <ghableska> I still get the same error message on startup...
13:25 <GodTodd> hmmm
13:25 <wrtlprnft> check if it's still the exact same file you downloaded
13:26 <ghableska> yes, it is
13:27 <wrtlprnft> how do you know?
13:27 <wrtlprnft> md5sum?
13:27 <ghableska> ?
13:27 <ghableska> well, the sizes are the same...
13:27 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia md5sum
13:27 <wrtlprnft> that doesn't say anything
13:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.43 seconds: Md5sum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5sum>; Lua Player - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_Player>; Wikipedia:Database download - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download>; Knoppix STD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (2 more messages)
13:27 <ghableska> oh :X
13:27 <ghableska> well, you're talking to a computer ignoramus here ;)
13:28 * wrtlprnft has no idea on how to calculate md5sums on a windows box
13:34 <McSpiddles> yer
13:34 <McSpiddles> i have a little slide,but it's playable
13:35 <wrtlprnft> w00t
13:35 <wrtlprnft> i LOVE those new gauges
13:35 <ghableska> hmm, and Windows Update won't work either...
13:35 <McSpiddles> what's wrong ghab?
13:36 <ghableska> everything
13:36 <McSpiddles> like what?
13:36 <ghableska> things aren't working....
13:36 <McSpiddles> hmm
13:37 <McSpiddles> wanna try something for me?
13:37 <ghableska> sure...
13:37 <ghableska> what?
13:37 <McSpiddles> start > run > cmd
13:37 <McSpiddles> see if it starts cmdprompt
13:37 <ghableska> yes
13:37 <McSpiddles> k,try ping and netstat
13:38 <ghableska> what am I supposed to be seeing?
13:38 <McSpiddles> some malware replaces the cmdprompt commands with .coms
13:38 <ghableska> doesn't look like it
13:38 <McSpiddles> if it didn't work i'd say you got alot of malware
13:38 <McSpiddles> lol
13:39 <McSpiddles> whatexactly is it doing?
13:39 <McSpiddles> the system that is...
13:39 <ghableska> well, i'm getting this weird error message on startup
13:39 <McSpiddles> that is?
13:40 <ghableska> The application or DLL c:\windows\system32\msvcp71.dll is not a valid Windows image. PLease check this against your installation diskette
13:40 <McSpiddles> sec
13:40 <ghableska> brb
13:43 <McSpiddles> lol
13:43 <McSpiddles> i got alot of spyware :/
13:43 <McSpiddles> anywho
13:49 <ghableska> g2g, but i'll probably be back in about an hour
13:49 <ghableska> thanks for the help
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14:14 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47691#47691
14:14 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:15 <wrtlprnft> if your scrollback doesn't reach far enough: a) extend your scrollback b) ask politely what this discussion is about without making a negative comment, or c) STFU
14:15 <McSpiddles> O_o
14:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: Luke-Jr
14:19 <wrtlprnft> d) use http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt , e) make your negative comment and expect to be silenced after a while
14:25 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I'm not referring to negative comments
14:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, Lucifer_arma is when silencing you
14:26 <Luke-Jr> nope
14:26 <wrtlprnft> but?
14:26 <wrtlprnft> negative and pointless comments
14:27 <Luke-Jr> nothing negative, just pointless because you had apparently already covered that concern
14:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah. and you did not get that message and brought that discussion up again
14:27 <Luke-Jr> "We already thought of that" is a proper response
14:28 <wrtlprnft> let's see if that helps with you. i doubt it
14:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Special:Log/block
14:51 <wrtlprnft> > 13:48, 21 May 2006 Wrtlprnft blocked "User:Wrtlprnft" with an expiry time of 1 minute (test)
14:51 <wrtlprnft> never thought i could block myself
14:52 <Luke-Jr> ...
14:53 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --with ...
14:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ...
14:53 <wrtlprnft> aww, just one. I'm sure if armabot had a longer history it would be enough to force a #more
14:56 <Luke-Jr> ...
14:56 <Luke-Jr> try w/o the limit thing
14:56 <wrtlprnft> another one. my logs count 10 now
14:56 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --with ... --nolimit
14:56 <Luke-Jr> --nolimit or something?
14:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:56:36] <Luke-Jr> ..., [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ..., [01:17:53] <Luke-Jr> mepis isn't too new..., [01:11:03] <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: ..., and [00:47:18] <Luke-Jr> ...
14:57 <wrtlprnft> yay, 3 alone in there
14:57 <Luke-Jr> hehe
14:58 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --regex /^\.\{3}$/ --nolimit
14:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 1866 messages.
14:58 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --regex /^\.{3}$/ --nolimit
14:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:56:36] <Luke-Jr> ..., [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ..., and [00:47:18] <Luke-Jr> ...
15:00 <z-man> could one of the non-admins here try to commit something to CVSROOT? I hope I disabled that :)
15:00 <wrtlprnft> how?
15:00 <z-man> Check it out like any other module: cvs co CVSROOT
15:00 <wrtlprnft> kk
15:01 <z-man> best file to modify is "avail"
15:01 <Luke-Jr> z-man: disable the 'armagetron' modules too?
15:01 <z-man> just try to add avail|wrtl at the end
15:01 <z-man> Luke-Jr: sure
15:02 <z-man> but if we test commits to that, that'd be a bit stupid if they fail, right?
15:02 <Luke-Jr> hm?
15:02 <z-man> If the test fails, a commit gets through and modifies the module
15:03 <wrtlprnft> **** Access denied: Insufficient Karma (wrtlprnft|CVSROOT|)
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs commit: Pre-commit check failed
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first!
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs commit: saving log message in /tmp/cvsUk1cnO
15:03 <z-man> hehe
15:03 <z-man> Well, next life, perhaps :)
15:03 <wrtlprnft> lol
15:05 <Luke-Jr> z-man: FYI, I don't really acknowledge formal leadership of the project by anyone-- I just weigh people's opinions and such based on how much respect they deserve and their knowledge on the topic. With you and guru3 as leaders, that worked out fine since you generally made the two things effectively one in the same, but I doubt it will be such for Lucifer.
15:06 <wrtlprnft> doesn't look like there's much control anyways. most of their binding decisions are common sense
15:06 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: hence why I don't think Lucifer will fit in well
15:06 <wrtlprnft> as long as z-man and guru3 agree there is no difference anyways
15:06 <z-man> Lucifer won't get anything silly past Tank and me
15:07 <wrtlprnft> not that i say Lucifer_arma would make bad decisions
15:07 <z-man> Just in case, yes :)
15:07 <wrtlprnft> I guess most of the time all three will agree
15:07 <Luke-Jr> what ever happened to the idea of just having each of us be an authority over the code we know better?
15:08 <Luke-Jr> eg, wrtl would authoritate over cockpit; I over resources; ph over maps; etc
15:08 <z-man> You still have that, as long as you don't mess up
15:08 <wrtlprnft> that would make z-man the total super- admin
15:08 <z-man> that's included in the 'we won't micromanage" paragraph
15:09 <Luke-Jr> z-man: sometimes it doesn't seem like it, when Lucifer decides to reinvent a new resource system ignoring anything I say
15:09 <z-man> I mean, what would be the point? Most of the time, you're all doing good work without supervision
15:09 <z-man> He only ignores the silly bits.
15:09 <z-man> the ones where you ignore everything everyone else said
15:09 <Luke-Jr> he's still pushing ZIP within resources
15:09 <wrtlprnft> i'm gonna strongly consider anything you three say no matter if it's binding or not
15:09 <z-man> as is everyone else except you :)
15:10 <z-man> that last one was for the ZIP
15:10 <Luke-Jr> ZIP only makes sense as packaging
15:10 <z-man> We've already chewed that discussion to its completion on the forum, it seems to me.
15:11 <Luke-Jr> and the completion wasn't ZIP
15:11 <Luke-Jr> it was a directory with binary data bits
15:11 <Luke-Jr> (or filepath.B.dataname)
15:11 <z-man> But using ZIPs as meta-filesystems wasn't explicitly excluded
15:12 <Luke-Jr> web requests don't use filesystems
15:13 <Luke-Jr> filesystems are invisible to that
15:13 <Luke-Jr> either the client or the server can indiscriminately use ZIP as a filesystem without any involvement of the resource system itself
15:14 <Luke-Jr> and in the case of manually shared resource packs, ZIP might be the preferred packaging format
15:14 <Luke-Jr> but that's not dealing with the system itself
15:14 <z-man> And I think that's all the ZIP proponents are suggesting
15:14 <z-man> Use it for manual sharing
15:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer still wants it within the system, it seems to me anyway
15:15 <Luke-Jr> bbiab
15:16 * wrtlprnft thinks this discussion should not be made with Lucifer_arma absent
15:16 * z-man agrees
15:17 <z-man> We'd need at least someone who was actually involved :)
15:17 <wrtlprnft> oh nooooooo
15:17 <wrtlprnft> not more spam
15:18 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA175.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:21 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B9484.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:21 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:21 <wrtlprnft> o_O
15:21 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
15:21 <wrtlprnft> there go our chatlogs
15:22 <ghableska> hi
15:22 <wrtlprnft> hi
15:23 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:23 <z-man> armabot, what are you doing?
15:23 <wrtlprnft> interesting that armabot left, but Luke-Jr didn't
15:24 <wrtlprnft> maybe Lucifer_arma's wive restarted the server
15:25 <z-man> Be careful with that tab-completion :)
15:25 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:25 <wrtlprnft> oh, i see
15:26 <wrtlprnft> s/Luke-Jr/Lucifer_arma
15:27 <ghableska> :(
15:31 <wrtlprnft> there doesn't seem to be a way to get irssi to use bash- style completion :(
15:32 <wrtlprnft> like, complete as far as possible, don't just take the first match (and then cycle through the others)
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15:32 <ghableska> gah
15:33 <ghableska> wrtlprnft, can you think of anything else I can do?
15:33 <wrtlprnft> not really, exept wiping out your harddrive and reinstalling
15:33 <wrtlprnft> or switching to another OS ;)
15:34 <ghableska> :P
15:34 * ghableska is starting to hate Windows
15:35 <wrtlprnft> hmm, g2g, cya
15:35 <ghableska> bye
15:37 <MaZuffeR> ghableska: have you tried using some spyware remover? like adaware or spybot search&destroy
15:37 <ghableska> I have both ;)
15:37 <ghableska> and they didn't find anything
15:37 <MaZuffeR> ok
15:38 <ghableska> MSVCP71.dll seems to be the source of the trouble
15:40 <ghableska> but i have no idea what to do...
15:40 <guru3> try the gcc version?
15:40 * guru3 has no clue what's wrong
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15:40 <ghableska> oops
15:42 <ghableska> any suggestions...
15:42 <ghableska> ?
15:42 <MaZuffeR> i have no idea what's wrong :/
15:46 <MaZuffeR> you could try avast! virus scanner, it can run before windows is fully started, worked on my dads old computer...
15:47 <ghableska> I'll try that...
15:49 <ghableska> brb, need to restart
15:49 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:17 <ghableska> hi again
16:18 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:23 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870C23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:28 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:28 <ghableska> :D
16:28 <ghableska> it worked
16:28 <MaZuffeR> good
16:29 <ghableska> no virus, but there were corrupted files
16:29 <MaZuffeR> ok
16:29 <ghableska> and then I was able to run this norton uninstaller online
16:29 <ghableska> so everything is normal :)
16:30 <ghableska> thanks
16:30 <MaZuffeR> np
16:33 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-179-146.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: yeah, my server was DOS-attacked by my 2 year old, that's why armabot was gone for a few minutes
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft yeah, can you relink me with the antispam stuff? I thought I'd finish the move to gentoo and then do it, but I"ll do the antispam thing first and then finish the gentoo thing :)
16:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
16:47 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for Self_Destructo and wrtlprnft.
16:50 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:51 <ghableska> hello
17:09 <n54> back
17:09 <n54> hi ghab :) hope your problem is fixed (I've read everything)
17:10 <ghableska> oh, yeah :D
17:10 <ghableska> brb
17:10 <n54> #message guru3 yes, sorry about not being clear enough on the exact nature of the problem from the start (I relazied I was being unclear in the first way I described it)
17:10 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
17:11 <guru3> ok
17:11 <guru3> but you know
17:11 <guru3> you dont' have to #message me
17:11 <n54> haha sorry :D
17:11 <guru3> because when you say a line with my name
17:11 <guru3> it points it out to me
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but some people don't always go back and find the lines with their names in them. :)
17:12 <n54> onyl problem with keeping the channels up is that I spend half an hour reading tons of stuff here and elsewhere ^_^
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> there's also some of us that leave occasionally.
17:13 <n54> yup I'm gonna do that right now so this little pc doesn't croak
17:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
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17:19 <Lucifer_arma> http://componentizedlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page
17:21 <n54> looks interesting
17:21 <Lucifer_arma> looks more or less like what I need
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> describe components in an xml file, then the builder fetches them from the apt repository to build the distribution
17:22 <n54> yup I guess so
17:23 <ghableska> back
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, LSB is kinda contrary to what I'm looking at.
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> There's no reason for me to stick with the FHS-style directory tree, for example. It's an embedded linux, not a desktop!
17:26 <n54> ok I though you wanted debian (with all the extra luggange) because you might need some desktop-thingy in the future (if you bought a lcd etc.) but if you don't then I
17:27 <n54> 'I'll revert back to recommending LFS
17:28 * n54 wonders how much gumstick could do *goes to see*
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> eh? LFS is attractive, but it means I"ll have to build from scratch. :)
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, I was interested in Debian for the first installation, the one I'm actually working on, because I can do most of the stuff I need without adding a bunch of crap I don't, I think.
17:29 <n54> ah ok
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> I think, mind you. Don't know Debian that well. I tried to build a custom Mandrake for awhile and it was painful. Debian is supposed to be a lot easier, though.
17:30 <n54> btw not really truly on topic: http://www.gumstix.com/
17:30 <n54> ok
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> long run, the only things I'm concerned about with LFS are having a kernel with hardware detection and support that's comparable to desktop kernels
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> but in a way, I'd rather build my own package manager for this.
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> neat, but slow
17:33 <n54> yup
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.gumstix.com/waysmalls.html
17:34 <n54> yeah although I don't really like those
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> these are neat little gadgets, though. :)
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> but there's some good pointers for where to look for other things. u-boot bootloader? what's that? ;)
17:40 <n54> not sure, but I doub't you'll save much by not using lilo or grub :)
17:42 <n54> I think this is their main site http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/
18:09 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. Couldn't see anything that made uboot look significant. Looking at lfs again, though. :)
18:12 <n54> me neither, I only glanced at it though but it just looked like work
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20:37 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:37 <ghableska> hi
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21:21 -!- Jobe [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034186032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:21 <ghableska> hi n54
21:21 -!- Jobe [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034186032.nb.aliant.net] has left #armagetron []
21:22 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034186032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:22 <n54> hi ghableska :)
21:23 <ghableska> there are still strange problems with my system :(
21:24 <n54> do you use antivirus, anti-spyware and such?
21:24 <ghableska> yes, i had norton antivirus
21:25 <n54> hmm ok I don't think highly of norton though
21:25 <ghableska> and i use zonealarm firewall, lavasoft ad-aware, and spybot-search and destory
21:25 <ghableska> *destroy
21:25 <n54> ok
21:25 <n54> those are ok
21:25 <ghableska> but norton seemed to cause half the trouble
21:26 <n54> that does not surprise me
21:26 <ghableska> :)
21:26 <n54> do you pay for it or got it for free?
21:26 <ghableska> I got the trial one with the google pack
21:27 <n54> ah ok, just ditch it and use anti-vir or AVG or similar; I prefer this german company: www.free-av.com they have a free version for private use
21:27 <ghableska> hmm
21:28 <ghableska> I still suspect that there are problems, because iTunes was going on about corrupted installations, and the error-checking option won't work
21:28 <n54> there are others too of course *thinks he remembers some topic about it on the armagetron forum*
21:28 <ghableska> and all this happened today :(
21:28 <ghableska> heh
21:28 <n54> yeah it can simply be a hardware problem, old hard-disk?
21:29 <ghableska> might be, though the comp's fairly new
21:29 <ghableska> like 8 months old...
21:29 <n54> oh that's new then
21:29 <ghableska> yup
21:31 <ghableska> i have a feeling that reformatting will help, but I don't want to take such drastic action...
21:32 <n54> not sure what windows system you're running but I think you could use the install disk and do a repair and see if that helps but get rid of norton anyway
21:32 <ghableska> the what?
21:32 <n54> which version of windows
21:32 <ghableska> XP
21:32 <ghableska> see, norton is gone
21:32 <n54> ok I have no knowledge of Xp
21:32 <n54> ah ok
21:32 <ghableska> I was able to remove it after downloading avast
21:32 <n54> good
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:49 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, successfully hacked the wiki
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:50 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Userlogin.php.txt
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:50 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/templates/Userlogin.php
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/SpecialUserlogin.php.txt
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:51 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/SpecialUserlogin.php
21:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer_arma
21:33 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft
21:33 <wrtlprnft> hi
21:33 <n54> hi
21:34 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: how did the match go?
21:34 <wrtlprnft> 3PMs? wow
21:34 <McSpiddles> it didn't fo
21:34 <McSpiddles> go
21:35 <wrtlprnft> d'oh, 3 times the same PM from 2020
21:35 <ghableska> hehe
21:35 <wrtlprnft> not at all?
21:35 <McSpiddles> no
21:35 <ghableska> was it about the match?
21:35 <McSpiddles> vanhayes said it wasn't scheduled
21:35 <ghableska> because there seemed to be some confusion about the time
21:35 <Vanhayes> hey wrtl
21:35 <ghableska> some people thought it was yesterday, and other's today...
21:35 <ghableska> hi Vanhayes
21:36 <Vanhayes> hwy ghab
21:36 <Vanhayes> hey*
21:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, i talked to 2020 and he said we should try again today
21:36 <ghableska> hmm
21:36 <wrtlprnft> i thought he would take care of spreading the word to you
21:36 <wrtlprnft> or it was an impostor, of course
21:36 <McSpiddles> umm
21:37 <ghableska> possibly...
21:37 <McSpiddles> 2020 said he didn't know about it either
21:37 <Vanhayes> somone said he set it up
21:37 <ghableska> what does the wiki say?
21:37 <Vanhayes> but he said he had no clue
21:37 <Vanhayes> nothing
21:38 <Vanhayes> why didn't any MBC show up on saturday? bad time?
21:38 <wrtlprnft> no
21:38 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't there
21:38 <ghableska> huh
21:38 <wrtlprnft> and noone took care of getting people together
21:39 <Vanhayes> I see
21:39 <Vanhayes> that sucks
21:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:40 <ghableska> so did we or did we not have a match scheduled?
21:40 <Vanhayes> we did
21:40 <ghableska> when?
21:40 <Vanhayes> saturday at 8 pm CDT/ 1am GMT
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 1 hour 40 mins ago and 1 day 1 hour 40 mins ago
21:41 <ghableska> lol
21:41 <Vanhayes> I heard about the one 1 hour ago from lack saying 2020 set it up
21:41 <Vanhayes> but 2020 said he didnt
21:41 <wrtlprnft> so at least there's evidence and it's not just me dreaming
21:41 <Vanhayes> lol
21:42 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: would you mind checking the IP of that guy that logged in as 2020 and seeing if it is the "real" one?
21:42 <Vanhayes> hope it wasn't pimp
21:42 <ghableska> pimp has been quiet recently...
21:42 <wrtlprnft> not sure about the time, but it was on CVS fortress
21:42 <wrtlprnft> haha, he isn't
21:42 <ghableska> ?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> on ct fortress there was a guy that entered as wrt1prnft |mbc|
21:43 <wrtlprnft> just today
21:43 <ghableska> some one has been abusing the 1 thing...
21:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but there's no real cure
21:43 <wrtlprnft> 0 is mapped to o, but 1 can be i or l
21:44 <Vanhayes> btw I'm pretty sure other people can use my name now on CVS
21:44 <wrtlprnft> and it's clearly visible anyways
21:44 <Vanhayes> used my sister's comp with my name and it didn't kick me off
21:45 <wrtlprnft> o, that doesn't matter
21:45 <wrtlprnft> if you'
21:45 <wrtlprnft> re in the same house or same provider it can't notice
21:45 <Vanhayes> ok, nice
21:45 <wrtlprnft> but if you go to someone else's home you should get kicked
21:46 * wrtlprnft needs a name without a i or l
21:46 <ghableska> happened once to me...
21:46 <ghableska> right Vanhayes?
21:46 <Vanhayes> lol
21:46 <Vanhayes> ya
21:46 <wrtlprnft> people know it, they just like the "kcik"
21:46 <ghableska> it only banned me AFTER I left the server though
21:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:46 <ghableska> it didn't kick me straightaway
21:46 <Vanhayes> u left before u got kicked
21:46 <wrtlprnft> it's a script that writes everytime.cfg
21:46 <ghableska> oh
21:46 <wrtlprnft> so it'll get applied when the round ends
21:47 <McSpiddles> that kick ban thing isn't really all that good
21:47 <wrtlprnft> it reads the logs and generates everytime.cfg out of it
21:47 <Vanhayes> it sucked tho I got kicked when a bunch of people got kicked from impersonating
21:47 <McSpiddles> when they kick me i do a mac clone
21:47 <McSpiddles> then i can get back in :p
21:47 <ghableska> Vanhayes, I think macattack hates you now
21:47 <Vanhayes> lol "when they kick me" not if they kick me
21:48 <ghableska> at least the server stops you from changing your name after a poll...
21:48 <wrtlprnft> macattack is an idiot IMHO
21:48 <Vanhayes> yup
21:48 <McSpiddles> well
21:48 <McSpiddles> there's a bug in that to
21:48 <McSpiddles> i changed my name after a poll was started
21:48 <McSpiddles> my name in the server didn't change
21:48 <McSpiddles> but the poll name changed
21:48 <ghableska> oh
21:49 <Vanhayes> weird
21:49 <wrtlprnft> oh, that sucks
21:49 <wrtlprnft> cry BUG in that case
21:49 <McSpiddles> lol
21:49 <wrtlprnft> well, it IS a bug
21:49 <Vanhayes> o ya do u know why the team changed from blue to red?
21:49 <McSpiddles> i'm not complaning,it stopped me from changing my ip again
21:49 <ghableska> heh
21:49 <Vanhayes> seems random
21:50 <ghableska> so...
21:51 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47772#47772
21:51 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:51 <ghableska> heh, luci's reaction
21:51 <McSpiddles> http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7443/tron21ad.jpg
21:52 * wrtlprnft wants to see that wiki page
21:52 <ghableska> gah
21:52 <ghableska> it was funnier when pimp tried to copy him
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you mean 2o2o2?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> or 2O2O
21:52 <ghableska> yes
21:52 <ghableska> aka Guest
21:53 <wrtlprnft> aka "I am a fake"
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the ava he deleted later
21:53 <ghableska> heh
21:55 <ghableska> and 2020 already wants the ladle to start...
21:55 <ghableska> before the spoon is even over
21:55 <Vanhayes> ya he is a little Too optimistic
21:55 <wrtlprnft> better not
21:55 <wrtlprnft> wait at least two months
21:55 <Vanhayes> says it starts june 24th
21:55 <ghableska> too soon..
21:55 <Vanhayes> yup
21:55 <wrtlprnft> i wouldn't be there
21:56 <wrtlprnft> that's right around the time i go back to germany
21:56 <Vanhayes> leaving Canada :(
21:56 <wrtlprnft> D:
21:56 <Vanhayes> for good?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> (you have to turn your head the other way for D: )
21:57 <ghableska> ;)
21:57 <Vanhayes> lol
21:57 <wrtlprnft> it'll be nice back there too, though
21:57 <ghableska> where in germany?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> munich
21:57 <ghableska> good pings ;)
21:57 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:57 <wrtlprnft> sec
21:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, i can't send a normal ping to z-man's server?
21:59 <wrtlprnft> but it will be under 100, definitely
22:00 * ghableska yawns
22:00 <ghableska> goodnight everyone
22:00 <n54> cya :)
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22:07 <Vanhayes> ya im calling it a night cya
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22:27 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:27 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:28 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:28 * Lucifer_arma starts school again in a week
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> make it a week and a half. May 30
22:30 <n54> so soon?
22:31 <n54> are you racing towards a uni entrance in the autumn or something like that?
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, yes, but, ummm
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> see, I didn't take a class last summer and nearly went crazy :)
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> and I do want to get into UT asap. I probably won't take summer classes when I get there, but I'll have 4 semesters left when I do.
22:43 <n54> ok :)
22:44 <n54> only 4... bachelors degree?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> yessir
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> it's like this. :)
22:44 <n54> :)
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> First, get bachelor's in Aerospace Engineering. Then, try to find job.
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> If(! jobFound() ) getMasters();
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> then try to find a job again.
22:45 <n54> yeah that's sensible imo
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> if (! jobFound() ) getDoctorate();
22:45 <n54> :)
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> the thing about postgraduate studies is that funding is easier to get, if your undergraduate record is good.
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> and Aerospace Engineering in particular might require a master's or phd to get a job
22:46 <n54> and doing it like that will both provide time for stuff to sink in as well as getting some real hand-on experience
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm going to push robotics as my technical elective as much as possible. So Aerospace Engineering with and emphasis on space, and robotics.
22:47 <n54> although i had hands-on experience before I started my bachelors degree (that got slahes by my illness very early on) and it nearly drove me crazy (there's a lot of bs going on at uni)
22:47 <n54> ok
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> with a standing record as a programmer, my best employment opportunities are probably going to be using my degree as a programmer
22:48 <n54> yeah perhaps
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> and systems automation (read: robotics) is big in space :)
22:48 <n54> yup
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> I'm also very interested in robotics :)
22:48 <n54> :)
Log from 2006-05-22:
--- Day changed Mon May 22 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> yay, takes keybinds now. :)
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> now to save them, heh.
00:24 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:30 * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man
00:30 * z-man lifts his hat
00:30 <Luke-Jr> 3
00:30 <z-man> 2
00:31 <Luke-Jr> wrong
00:31 <Luke-Jr> you say '.'
00:31 <Luke-Jr> let's try again
00:31 <Luke-Jr> 3
00:31 <z-man> umm, ok....
00:31 <z-man> .
00:31 <Luke-Jr> 1
00:32 <z-man> 4
00:32 <z-man> yawn
00:32 <Luke-Jr> 1
00:34 <Luke-Jr> aww, giving up so soon? =p
00:41 <z-man> No, I just think that I did enough to prove I saw the pattern
00:42 <z-man> And there's no point in a "how many digits of PI do you know" game if I can cheat and look them up :)
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> what's the difference between mpg123 and mpg321?
00:52 <Luke-Jr> z-man: well, the game works when people are trusted not to cheat =p
00:53 * Luke-Jr decides not to answer Lucifer_arma since he won't see it anyway
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, Luke-Jr, if you didn't insist upon acting like such an ass all the time, people wouldn't ignore you
00:56 <Luke-Jr> oh, so I'm not ignored?
00:56 <Luke-Jr> well, in that case, in my own experience the primary difference is that mpg321 plays some rare files mpg123 can't
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> any idea which files and why?
00:57 <Luke-Jr> might be some kind of corruption
00:57 <Luke-Jr> mpg321 uses libmad to decode
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, and mpg123 uses smpeg
00:57 <Luke-Jr> which is also faster than whatever mplayer's default mp3 decoder is
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> smpeg again, iirc
00:57 <Luke-Jr> enough to make a difference between usable and unusable playing movies on my handheld =p
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> libmad is very nice. :) It's what we'll use if we have to decode our own mp3s
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> unfortunately, sdl uses smpeg too, iirc
00:58 <Luke-Jr> according to mpg321's manpage, mpg123 is also licensed non-Free
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> in that case, mpg321 wins the contest
00:58 <Luke-Jr> it also supports run-time output device changing
00:58 <Luke-Jr> apparently mpg123 is build-time selection
00:59 <Luke-Jr> eg, picking oss,alsa, etc
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> ah. Yeha, mpg321 takes -o to tell it. I didn't know mpg123 couldn't, just assumed it could.
01:01 <Luke-Jr> you would think ogg123 would be compatible with mpg123 for interface, but no... >.>
01:01 <Luke-Jr> (random rant)
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> ? I thought the point was that it *would* be compatible?
01:03 * Lucifer_arma isn't terribly worried, moosic has a nice config file for setting programs to play various formats
01:03 <Luke-Jr> I guess the point is that it's a known name somewhat
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> then it's just a sleazy marketing trick
01:06 <Luke-Jr> guess so
01:07 <Luke-Jr> why not use MPD or such? o.o
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> mpd uses mpg123 anyway
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> the main difference between mpd and moosic is that moosic is python, mpd is perl
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> let's see, do I pick the one in python or the one in perl? Hmmmm........
01:12 * Lucifer_arma is still trying to decide, python/perl
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> the other difference is that mpd doesn't appear to let you configure the programs it uses, so you're stuck with mpg123
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> which, for me, doesn't work, because mpg123 here is built to use libao, which doesn't work for some reason. So I need mpg321 -o alsa instead
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01:20 <Luke-Jr> oh, I was under the impression that you were writing 'moosic' from scratch
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> oh, no. I'm writing a client for moosic
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> my focus is on a ui that doesn't have a visual output and you can use with one-key commands while driving :)
01:26 <Luke-Jr> voice recog?
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> no, ps/2 keyboard
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> um, maybe someday voice recognition or touchpad or whatever
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> first, get the damn thing into my car. Second, find out if it was worthwhile. :)
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> so, curses-based ui right now. Subject to change when/if I want to.
01:30 <Luke-Jr> heh
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01:57 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
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02:58 <guru3> hmm it seems with the round robin that it kinda easily looses your new posts
02:58 <guru3> i suggest everyone be careful
02:58 <guru3> i'll have to see about that hack for it
03:12 <Luke-Jr> hm?
03:13 <Luke-Jr> news to me?
03:13 <Luke-Jr> guess that's why every other page times out?
03:14 <guru3> well you see i set up the mysql redundancy thing
03:14 <guru3> and put forums.armagetronad.net on a round robbin
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03:25 <Luke-Jr> o
03:25 <Luke-Jr> doesn't seem to work that well
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03:36 <guru3> of course, the forums have been on a superior server for ages
03:36 <guru3> if i actually had to host them at home the whole time
03:36 <guru3> would be a much different experience
03:57 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:04 <z-man-work> #later tell wrtlprnft which 2020 login should I check?
04:04 <armabot> z-man-work: The operation succeeded.
04:04 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as a member." (Groucho Marx) <--- a good explanation for why I won't join a clan :)
05:51 <n54> :)
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft I put those scripts onto the wiki. Thanks! :)
05:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
06:39 -!- spider_ is now known as McSpiddles
06:40 * McSpiddles yawns
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07:26 <Lucifer_arma> is linux hardcoded to run init?
07:29 <n54> absolutely no idea, but you should be able to change init anyhow afaik
07:35 <Lucifer_arma> aha. it is, but the kernel will take a command line argument to change it
07:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm wondering because I'm thinking I might want something else. Been reading on sysV init, and it really is overkill for a car computer :)
07:40 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:44 <n54> yup :)
07:44 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
07:44 <n54> wb & yup, it's overkill :)
07:44 <n54> that's why lfs might be sweeter than it sounds at first
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> that's a big reason I'm considering lfs :)
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so I just left and came back testing the init option to the kernel. Not sure if it worked, I just passed it /sbin/init
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I was really testing grub. :)
07:45 <n54> :)
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> see, there's a lot of daemons that are started before X is started that really should be started after X, because X takes a little bit to start
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd rather be able to login before those daemons are started. By the time login is finished, they'll be running.
07:47 <n54> yeah and you might not want 90% of them anyway
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think I can take a lesson from Windows. Services are started simultaneously whenever possible
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> for the car computer I definitely don't want 90% of them. In fact, it's better for me to cut them all out and just add them as I need them.
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> so start with what I know I need, and see what works. Then add services until the whole thing works properly. :)
07:48 <n54> I agree, I'm not the one doing this and all that but I would try it that way (and you'll learn tons of arcana) :)
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've wanted to know more about the boot process for awhile, all the time suspecting I wouldn't like what I found. I see how it's nice and flexible,
07:48 <n54> you're using grub right?
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> but shell scripts are so slow, and starting a bazillion of them... seems like more time and power is spent dealing with overhead of the process than booting itself
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, grub. Well, ummm...... I have two bootloaders now. One that scans for bootable stuff and includes automatic options for CD-ROM, and then grub
07:49 <n54> ah sorry I wasn't thinking about the system start really - my fault
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> and *cough* now that I figured out grub I can add the stuff for the gentoo partition I made
07:50 <n54> :)
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> the kernel for my gentoo partition seems to have disappeared
07:56 <n54> oops?
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> big oops. Now I'm not even sure what state that partition is in.
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> which means, of course, reformatting and starting over
07:59 <n54> umm try checking it first from mandriva
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should reformat and build it lfs instead, since I seem so bound and determined to fool with it
07:59 <n54> just in case something nice is there
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> s/mandriva/kubuntu
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> there's stuff there, it's just no longer in a known state
08:00 <n54> but there is a fs right?
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, with a partially built gentoo on it :)
08:00 <n54> or were there no data on the disk yet?
08:00 <n54> ah ok
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> see, I built a kernel and fooled with the bootloader and broke the bootloader
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> I used the Kubuntu installer as a recovery disc to fix it, broke it again, fixed it again, etc.
08:01 <n54> aah ok sorry just me being overly cautious and unknowledgeable about the situation
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> :)
08:01 <n54> sure wipe it clean, use something like eraser :D
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> now the dust has settled and I just went back to look and found less there than was supposed to be there
08:01 * n54 loves eraser!
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> eraser?
08:02 <n54> ultra-heavy-duty-mini-linux-based-disk-cleaner
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I'm going to bed in a few minutes. I'll think about what to do while I'm sleeping. :)
08:02 <n54> I use eraser35 mostly which usually takes a day.... but you can use eraser3 which just takes a few hours :)
08:03 <n54> hehe ok cya :)
08:05 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-069-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
08:18 <z-man> Say, joda_bo1 , are you in two clans now?
08:20 * wrtlprnft yawns
08:22 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47861#47861
08:22 <wrtlprnft> haha, that's how those tricks go wrong
08:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man: uh, i don't know the exact time, but it must have been at some time after 9PM CDT. He logged in as [AW] 2020 and then changed to ]i[ 2020 IIRC
08:23 <wrtlprnft> 9PM CDT saturday, that is
08:23 <z-man> CDT is what offset?
08:24 <z-man> Mine?
08:24 <wrtlprnft> MEST-7
08:24 <wrtlprnft> *MESZ-7
08:25 <wrtlprnft> that makes it some time after 2AM on sunday for you
08:25 <z-man> right
08:25 <wrtlprnft> but I'm not sure if i met him at that time. it might have been the next day
08:25 <wrtlprnft> which would be around 2PM your time
08:30 <z-man> No, that wasn't 2020. It was ~*SP*~ ?M?g?.
08:31 <z-man> The IP is unique, but the only one logging in from that IP range was Omega.
08:32 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't have expected that from him
08:32 <wrtlprnft> to imposter 2020 i mean
08:32 <z-man> scratch that
08:33 <z-man> 2020 and Omega were active from different IPs in their range at the same time once.
08:33 <wrtlprnft> so they just use the same provider?
08:34 <z-man> And Omega is on Windows.
08:34 <z-man> Yes, just the same provider.
08:34 <wrtlprnft> hmm, so it probably was the real 2020?
08:34 <z-man> Of course, I don't know whether the logins of 2020 I've got are the TRUE 2020 :)
08:34 <z-man> yes, as far as I can tell.
08:35 <wrtlprnft> hmm, weird. Maybe he just forgot about it
08:35 <wrtlprnft> just wanted you to check, i don't think 2020 is happy if someone imposts him
08:36 <wrtlprnft> thanks :)
08:36 <z-man> nobody is :)
08:36 <z-man> yw.
08:36 <guru3> i've now got an 3800+ a 4200+ and a 4800+
08:36 <guru3> :)
08:36 <z-man> oooh.
08:36 <guru3> in fact i've got like 15 computers
08:36 <guru3> all for running seti@home
08:37 <guru3> i hope none of you are energy consumption freaks :/
08:38 <z-man> Not all of us, but me :)
08:38 <wrtlprnft> well, if they do something useful...
08:39 <guru3> but anyway
08:39 <guru3> if i set it up right i could compile a full kernel in about 5 minutes
08:40 <wrtlprnft> this decorator stuff looks like real magic to me... how can that work?
08:40 <z-man> For every decoratable class, you have a manager object
08:40 <wrtlprnft> I mean, if you don't know the size of Expensive, how does the code that uses Innocent know how much space to allocate?
08:41 <z-man> the tDecorator<> thingy templates register the size of their decorators with that
08:41 <wrtlprnft> so the constructors get more expensive?
08:41 <z-man> and the new operator asks the management object which size it needs to allocate extra
08:41 <z-man> yes, constructing/destroying objects gets a bit more expensive that with real members.
08:42 <wrtlprnft> but that requires that the constuctors/destructors aren't declared in the header file i guess
08:42 <wrtlprnft> as inline functions
08:43 <z-man> No, there are no restrictions on that.
08:44 <wrtlprnft> that's nice then :D
08:44 <guru3> i have 17 computers :/
08:44 <z-man> The only condition is that the decorated object needs to have some stuff (member functions/typedefs) but that's done by the macro.
08:44 <z-man> census update?
08:44 <wrtlprnft> 17 and counting up?
08:44 <z-man> Where did the two extra ones materialize from? :)
08:44 <guru3> well right now 17 is it
08:45 <guru3> 2 aren't really in 100% condition
08:45 <guru3> well
08:45 <guru3> 1 isn't
08:45 <guru3> the other is non-networkable
08:45 <n54> are they breeding? :o ;)
08:45 <z-man> My four keep me busy enough :)
08:46 <guru3> well i guess i'm going for an administrator position :s
08:46 <n54> hah I have four too, but only three are mine
08:46 <guru3> well i suppose one of those 17 is really my dad's
08:47 <n54> net- & sys-admin are horrible horrible jobs, don't got here :)
08:47 <guru3> but the rest i can pretty much do whatever i want with whenever i want
08:47 <n54> go there*
08:48 <guru3> the best bit is that almost all of those run gentoo
08:50 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: the spambot thing works like a charm :)
08:50 <n54> yay! :D
08:50 <wrtlprnft> i see that tonight no spam occured :D
08:50 <wrtlprnft> s/tonight/this night/
08:51 <wrtlprnft> there's usually a whole bunch at 12AM
08:53 <n54> it's a neat filter idea
08:54 <wrtlprnft> patent it ;)
08:54 <n54> hehe nah, it is trivial to overcome until one takes into account that we can make it harder and harder by adding n alternatives :)
08:55 <n54> and each try equals a new "connection" for the bot, it could be increased to such a degree that anti-DoS measuers could eb applied :D
08:56 <n54> be*
08:56 <n54> but it's not patent stuff imo :)
08:56 <n54> and it was your idea anyway wasn't it?
08:57 <wrtlprnft> it's just sad that a company would actually have a chance to make a patent on it
08:58 <n54> yes but they're just taking an opportunity, it's the patent offices fault who approve all kinds of bs
08:58 <wrtlprnft> that's why i mean it's sad
08:59 <n54> I agree - didn't intend it as a counter-argument ^^
08:59 <guru3> gonna take forever to pixelize all the hostnames :/
09:00 <n54> which hostnames?
09:00 <guru3> took a screen shot
09:00 <guru3> with me sshed to every box running gentoo
09:00 <guru3> 14 systems
09:00 <n54> oh lol
09:00 <guru3> each hostname appears 4 times
09:00 <n54> use a big black box! :) j/k
09:01 * wrtlprnft would run out of hostnames pretty fast
09:01 <guru3> then you wouldn't see anything n54 :P
09:01 <z-man> me too, my computers are all named after Muppets.
09:01 <n54> I know ^^
09:01 <n54> hehe z-man :)
09:02 -!- Nixda732 [n=d450ebd2@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
09:02 <Nixda732> hallo ihr
09:02 <n54> I haven't sone my lan for real yet but I'm planning on using nethack demons like Juiblex etc.
09:02 <n54> hi
09:02 <n54> done*
09:03 <Nixda732> mich w?rde das stats script von http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/ interessieren
09:03 <guru3> z-man: :)
09:03 <z-man> Nixda732: Musst du wohl Joda fragen
09:03 <Nixda732> wie komm ich da an den quellcode der "ladder" ;-) ?
09:04 <Nixda732> aha.. danke
09:05 <z-man> Hmm, fuer mich ist die Ladder-Seite auf nixda momentan leer
09:05 <z-man> joda_bo1: Awake?
09:06 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-069-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
09:06 <z-man> joda_bot: Nixda732 hat ne frage
09:06 <z-man> er will an den Ladder-seiten quellcode von Nixda
09:06 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-069-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:07 <joda_bot> hi
09:07 <joda_bot> sorry, war gerade wohl mal wieder ein Verbindungsproblem
09:07 <n54> hi, you're in demand :)
09:07 <guru3> i'd say we're lucky z-man's here
09:07 <guru3> cause i sure don't speak german
09:08 <n54> yes, I might be able to say "something" but it would be painful for all involved :D
09:08 <Nixda732> ;-) macht nix
09:08 -!- z-man-cgi [n=865f437c@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
09:08 <Nixda732> hat ja keine eile
09:08 <Nixda732> ich versuchs sp?ter mal
09:08 <Nixda732> ich versuchs sp?ter mal
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09:09 <z-man> joda_bot: are you in two clans now?
09:09 * joda_bot thinks the ladder thing is broken right now ;)
09:09 * z-man agrees
09:09 <joda_bot> z-man: no actually not... .bot is an dissolved clan ;)
09:10 <guru3> hmm the png's 1.1MB :(
09:10 <z-man> So you're keeping the tag for nostalgia and because everyone knows you as joda.bot, aha.
09:12 <joda_bot> yeah that's about it
09:14 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/temp/systems2.jpg
09:17 <n54> you have a big screen
09:18 <guru3> yes i do
09:27 <wrtlprnft> I might have helped out if i wasn't playing arma :P
09:28 <n54> ?
09:28 <wrtlprnft> with that nixda guy
09:28 <n54> ooh
09:29 <n54> well, z-man to the rescue ;)
09:29 <n54> is it a snore? is it a lightning? no! it's z-man! :D
09:29 <wrtlprnft> lol
09:29 <n54> :)
09:30 <guru3> lightning isn't a noun :/
09:31 <n54> :S
09:31 <n54> "lightning personified"
09:31 <n54> ;P
09:31 <guru3> better i suppose
09:32 <n54> as in implied but not written :)
09:32 <guru3> well
09:32 <guru3> actually
09:32 <guru3> lightning is a plural noun
09:32 * wrtlprnft is missing his daily spam dose on the wiki
09:32 <guru3> so you just can't put the a in front of it
09:33 <n54> I'm being poetic *nyah-nyah* :)
09:33 <guru3> :/
09:33 <n54> :)
09:33 <wrtlprnft> is it a snore? is it a lightning? no! it's a z-man :D
09:33 <guru3> something fishy about this poetry of yours
09:33 <wrtlprnft> is it snore? is it lightning? no! it's z-man :D
09:34 <wrtlprnft> choose one
09:34 <n54> well obviously I choose the first
09:34 <n54> including the "a" makes a tribute to "is it a bird? is it a plane" :)
09:35 <wrtlprnft> #yoda is it a snore? is it a lightning? no! it's a z-man :D
09:35 <armabot> is it no! a it's a z-man :D snore? lightning? a is it
09:35 <guru3> that makes no sense
09:35 <guru3> so don't do that again
09:35 <wrtlprnft> yeah
09:36 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
09:36 <z-man-work> so I'm no longer awakened by your "poetry" :)
09:36 <wrtlprnft> lol, sorry
09:36 <n54> lol
09:36 <z-man-work> np :>
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10:35 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> armagetron doesnt see the videocard as well on this machine :/
10:35 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> nearly same spec
10:35 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> as my old machine
10:36 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> runs all crappy
11:16 <guru3> i'm thinking about moving the main aa.net domain to sf hosting
11:18 <SuPeRTaRD-bbl> i dunno what that is.. heh gotta go earn my keep, bbl
11:21 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr will be infinitely happy
11:21 <guru3> i never said what the permissions would be
11:23 <wrtlprnft> no, i don't think he'll be happy at all
11:26 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
11:28 <z-man-work> Hi nemo!
11:29 <z-man-work> nemostultae: do you have time to make a Mac build of 0.2.8.2_rc1 or do you want to wait for the final version?
11:29 <guru3> my bandwith usage at home is getting to be too high :/
11:29 <guru3> it's pissing me off
11:30 <z-man-work> guru3: Moving the site to SF will also improve our activitiy ranking there :) It'd get my vote for sure.
11:30 <guru3> actually putting the sf logo on like the wiki
11:30 <guru3> would help more
11:31 <z-man-work> Right, the logo display is what counts.
11:31 <wrtlprnft> o_O
11:31 <guru3> cause also we're gonna get the tv over the adsl
11:31 <guru3> and that could... cause funky stuff to happen
11:31 <wrtlprnft> i have that logo in my ad blocker since it is so slow and delays the loading of every page
11:31 <guru3> cause it's asyncronous
11:32 <nemostultae> z-man-work: I'll try to push it out later, after dinner.
11:32 <z-man-work> No hurry, nemostultae.
11:33 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Cockpit_Tutorial&curid=1547&diff=4593&oldid=4509&rcid=3593
11:33 * wrtlprnft hopes Luke-Jr is happy with that
11:33 <wrtlprnft> it's more or less like CSS, just in an XML syntax
11:35 <wrtlprnft> guru3: uh, images refuse to load on the forums...
11:35 <guru3> do they
11:35 <guru3> oh well
11:35 <guru3> what images?
11:35 <wrtlprnft> the lightcycle ones on the main page
11:35 <wrtlprnft> that indicate if a forum has new posts or not
11:36 <wrtlprnft> and other icons, too
11:36 <guru3> try refreshing
11:36 <wrtlprnft> i am refreshing once in a while to see if there's new posts
11:36 <wrtlprnft> and they do come, it just takes like 2 minutes or so
11:36 <guru3> must be a fluke i think
11:37 <wrtlprnft> actually the whole forums are extremely slow, i notice
11:38 <guru3> :/
11:49 <McSpiddles> it's not slow,wrtl's just brain lagging
11:49 <McSpiddles> :p
11:50 <wrtlprnft> must be lots and lots of lag then
11:50 <wrtlprnft> but it happened before that i couldn't reach the forums at all, but my server could and i could reach my server... weird
11:51 <McSpiddles> word of advice
11:51 <McSpiddles> don't call a girl a midget,it hurts
11:51 <McSpiddles> :s
11:51 <wrtlprnft> :P
11:52 <McSpiddles> damn,if my brother gets sent off next wekk
11:52 <McSpiddles> week
11:52 <McSpiddles> i'll have $200
11:52 <McSpiddles> if he doesn't i'll have $50,lol
11:52 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
11:53 * McSpiddles pokes MaZuffeR
--- Log opened Mon May 22 11:59:19 2006
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12:40 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
13:30 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you might be interested in this for your switch to gentoo: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Apache2_and_Drupal
13:46 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
14:06 <guru3> last exam tomorrow...
14:06 <guru3> good night
14:06 <wrtlprnft> night
14:06 <wrtlprnft> cvs -f -q update -d -P '.' 2>&1
14:06 <wrtlprnft> ssh: connect to host armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net port 22: Connection refused
14:06 <wrtlprnft> cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any)
14:06 <wrtlprnft> ...
14:07 <McSpiddles> pwnt
14:07 * wrtlprnft doesn't see how SF got more reliable after that CVS infrastructure change
14:07 <McSpiddles> it just doens't like you
14:07 <McSpiddles> that's all
14:07 <wrtlprnft> maybe
14:07 <McSpiddles> :p
14:33 <z-man> grr indeed
14:43 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
14:44 <z-man> it's up again!
14:45 <wrtlprnft> :)
14:45 <wrtlprnft> i shouldn't commit that anyways
14:45 <wrtlprnft> it's a modification that automatically splits up messages longer than SPAM_MAXLEN into multiple smaller ones
14:54 <z-man> Err, right :)
14:58 <wrtlprnft> actually any reason not to set it to 100 or so on CVS fortress? It happens pretty frequently to me that i need longer messages, so i always type without looking and only notice later that some text disappeared
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15:15 <z-man> wrtlprnft: no, actually not. The other spam settings are lowered, so this one may be lowered, too.
15:15 <wrtlprnft> :)
15:16 <wrtlprnft> I didn't know about that setting at all until i came across it on one of the tigers network servers
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15:52 <McSpiddles> i think i've got the center attack down pretty good
15:52 <McSpiddles> i can use 4.5 rubber on a center attack
15:52 <McSpiddles> s:D
15:53 <[NP]Tangent> guys
15:53 <[NP]Tangent> I just played armagetron again for the first time in months
15:54 <[NP]Tangent> man that game rocks all over again
15:54 * [NP]Tangent was [Null]Hyper if any of you remember me
15:55 <z-man> Tron Monks?
15:55 <[NP]Tangent> ?
15:55 <[NP]Tangent> I played on Iceman's server a lot
15:55 <z-man> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Talk:THE_LADLE
15:56 <z-man> Sorry, Tangent, this had nothing to do with you :)
15:56 <z-man> wb, by the way :)
15:57 <wrtlprnft> I vaguely remember someone called hyper, yes
15:57 <wrtlprnft> why not turn arma into a religious institution?
15:58 <wrtlprnft> ;) jk
16:00 -!- Manta [n=kim@host-69-59-72-62.nctv.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:02 * [NP]Tangent bows to the gods of Armagetron
16:05 <wrtlprnft> triotheism?
16:05 <[NP]Tangent> nah
16:05 <[NP]Tangent> I'm atheist
16:05 <wrtlprnft> i just referred to the "evil triumvirate"
16:06 <McSpiddles> Forget becoming a Jedi Knight with his light-sabre -- become a Tron Monk with your light-cycle!
16:06 <McSpiddles> lol
16:06 <McSpiddles> i love 2020
16:08 -!- Manta [n=kim@host-69-59-72-62.nctv.com] has joined #armagetron
16:15 -!- SD|bbmonday [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
16:16 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
16:16 <Self_Destructo> #notes
16:16 <armabot> Self_Destructo: I currently have notes waiting for Self_Destructo.
16:16 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I guess that was yesterday?
16:26 -!- Manta [n=kim@host-69-59-72-62.nctv.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:29 <McSpiddles> d00000000000000d
16:29 <McSpiddles> i should slap my isp for filtering bittorrent traffic
16:29 <McSpiddles> :<
16:29 <Self_Destructo> lol
16:29 -!- Manta [n=kim@64-118-124-96-as-02.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has joined #armagetron
16:32 <wrtlprnft> sucky ISP, if you ask me
16:32 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:32 <ghableska> hi there
16:32 <wrtlprnft> laggy connection when it's raining, blocks traffic... sucks
16:32 <wrtlprnft> hi ghableska
16:32 <ghableska> did you find out whether it was the real 2020?
16:32 <ghableska> who gave out the times...
16:32 <wrtlprnft> my ISP only blocks one port, and that is a port used for some windowsspecific attack
16:33 <wrtlprnft> well, z-man sais from what he can tell it wasn't a fake
16:33 <ghableska> ok
16:33 <wrtlprnft> *says
16:34 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: it wasn't at all, it seems... noone in AW knew about it, not even 2020 who organized it together with me
16:34 <wrtlprnft> well lacka did, so there is evidence
16:34 <McSpiddles> feather knew
16:34 <McSpiddles> he showed up
16:34 <McSpiddles> http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4185/downloaded4gr.jpg
16:35 <McSpiddles> that's movies i've got on this hdd
16:35 <McSpiddles> http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5499/downloading4gj.jpg
16:35 <ghableska> :O
16:35 <McSpiddles> that's downloading
16:35 <McSpiddles> then i got a 40gig hdd with about 50 movies on it
16:35 <ghableska> :O^2
16:35 <McSpiddles> this hdd is 111gigs
16:36 <McSpiddles> i need a ide ribbon that supports 3 hdds
16:37 <McSpiddles> i get tired of walking between computers seeing what movies i have and don't so i don't download a dup
16:37 <McSpiddles> heh
16:42 <Self_Destructo> Requirements: Metal: 320.000 Crystal: 640.000 Deuterium: 192.000
16:42 <Self_Destructo> WHAT!!!!!!!
16:43 <McSpiddles> ?
16:43 <McSpiddles> for what?
16:43 <Self_Destructo> i forgot I had to go for level 6 and not 5
16:43 <McSpiddles> ohhh
16:43 <McSpiddles> that won't be a problem for me :)
16:43 <Self_Destructo> hypherspace drive
16:43 <McSpiddles> i've got half that already
16:43 <McSpiddles> all the deuterium and metal
16:43 <Self_Destructo> well, not for me, once I shoot some IPB's
16:44 <McSpiddles> ipb's ?
16:44 <Self_Destructo> crystal will be my problem
16:44 <Self_Destructo> IPM's sorry
16:44 <McSpiddles> Metal Crystal Deuterium Energy
16:44 <McSpiddles> 434.840 214.361 101.217 17/3.199
16:44 <McSpiddles> and roughly
16:44 <McSpiddles> 100k of each total on the other 8 planets
16:45 <McSpiddles> 2 planets with 217 fields one with 277 and one with 311
16:45 <McSpiddles> i'll probably get ride of the one with 107 fields and find a bigger one
16:45 <ghableska> ogame?
16:45 <McSpiddles> all the others have 177 feilds
16:45 <McSpiddles> yea
16:46 <McSpiddles> sd,i got to give my fleet a run :D
16:46 <McSpiddles> only lost 2 lightfighters :)
16:48 <Self_Destructo> crap
16:48 <McSpiddles> ?
16:48 <Self_Destructo> someone done got my farm over the weekend
16:48 <McSpiddles> :(
16:48 <McSpiddles> read the forums
16:48 <McSpiddles> there's a farm you can have
16:48 <McSpiddles> :)
16:48 <McSpiddles> only 500 or so lightlasers
16:49 <Self_Destructo> 500k of metal, 400kcrystal, ect.
16:49 <McSpiddles> yea
16:49 <Self_Destructo> hrh
16:49 <Self_Destructo> heh
16:49 <McSpiddles> i don't have the cargo ships to spare :/
16:49 <Self_Destructo> I need to build me a silo level 4 on my 3:443 planet before I hit it
16:50 <Self_Destructo> i have about 16 just on that planet
16:50 <McSpiddles> that planet's in g6
16:50 <Self_Destructo> oh?
16:50 <McSpiddles> yea
16:50 <Self_Destructo> then I don't have the field space for it then
16:50 <McSpiddles> lol
16:51 <McSpiddles> i don't tihnk anyone else has the fleet to beat the defense
16:51 <Self_Destructo> i got 2 very crappy planets in g6
16:51 <Self_Destructo> well, my combined fleet would do it
16:51 <Self_Destructo> easily
16:51 <McSpiddles> all but 2 of my 9 planets are in g6
16:51 <McSpiddles> only 1 isn't that good
16:51 <McSpiddles> it has 107 fields
16:52 <McSpiddles> but it puts out more than the others right now
16:52 <McSpiddles> so i'ma wait to delete it
16:53 <McSpiddles> 20 more hours
16:53 <McSpiddles> then i got hyperdrive lvl5 :D
16:53 <Self_Destructo> hehe
16:53 <Self_Destructo> i got level 5 already
16:53 <McSpiddles> by then all the planets should have enough to goto lvl 6
16:53 <Self_Destructo> i just got to hit level 6 then I can make destroyers
16:53 <McSpiddles> me too :)
16:54 <McSpiddles> i need hyperdriver lvl 7 and gravitontech to get deathstars
16:55 <McSpiddles> which i need 2 more lvls on my research lab :/
16:55 <Self_Destructo> haha
16:55 <McSpiddles> shit
16:55 <McSpiddles> it's gonna cost around 800k crystal to get lvl 12
16:55 <McSpiddles> i think
16:55 <Self_Destructo> and then 300,000 power to research graviton
16:55 <McSpiddles> the power won't be a problem :)
16:55 <Self_Destructo> yes it will
16:56 <McSpiddles> i can get alot of solar sats up fast
16:56 <Self_Destructo> someone spy on you when you got 500 of those things they will like the debree field :)
16:56 <McSpiddles> need 6k solar sats
16:56 <Self_Destructo> uhuh
16:56 <Self_Destructo> well
16:57 <McSpiddles> i've only been spied on once in g6
16:57 <Self_Destructo> by what I have read, they recommend a nanite factory level 3 or 4 and then you having all the resources and doing it in one day
16:58 <McSpiddles> hmm
16:58 <Self_Destructo> just a nanite factory level 1 is 1mil metal
16:58 <McSpiddles> i can get metal like candy
16:58 <Self_Destructo> and alot of crystal and durt
16:58 <McSpiddles> that'll take time
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
16:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: I have no notes waiting to be delivered.
16:59 <McSpiddles> i sent psquare 230k metal and have over 400k left
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Metal: 1097610 Crystal: 444447
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Deuterium: 204022 Energy: 4848
16:59 <Self_Destructo> an inactive player
16:59 <McSpiddles> heh
16:59 <Self_Destructo> but...
16:59 <McSpiddles> killer defense?
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Defense
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Rocket Launcher 200 Light Laser 5100
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Gauss Cannon 48 Ion Cannon 86
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Plasma Turret 41 Small Shield Dome 1
16:59 <Self_Destructo> Large Shield Dome 1 Anti-Ballistic Missiles 20
16:59 <Self_Destructo> yeah
16:59 <McSpiddles> figures
17:00 <wrtlprnft> \?
17:00 <Self_Destructo> yep, it figures
17:00 <Self_Destructo> copied and asted
17:00 <Self_Destructo> pasted, lol
17:00 <McSpiddles> i think my crystal's about to double
17:00 <Self_Destructo> ?
17:00 <McSpiddles> Metal: 59796 Crystal: 440811
17:00 <McSpiddles> Deuterium: 23003 Energy: 4169
17:00 <McSpiddles> Fleets
17:00 <McSpiddles> Defense
17:00 <McSpiddles> Light Laser 2 Heavy Laser 220
17:00 <McSpiddles> Small Shield Dome 1 Large Shield Dome 1
17:00 <McSpiddles> Anti-Ballistic Missiles 10
17:01 <Self_Destructo> :o
17:01 <McSpiddles> :D
17:01 <Self_Destructo> is all this in g6?
17:01 <McSpiddles> mhmm
17:01 <McSpiddles> i've been spying on g5 too
17:01 <Self_Destructo> well, I've not done much messing around in 6, so, I think I will
17:01 <McSpiddles> haven't found much
17:02 <McSpiddles> it's good for me though, 3/4 of my fleet's in g6 :D
17:03 <McSpiddles> finally
17:03 <McSpiddles> i git max download speed
17:04 <McSpiddles> hopefully it'll stay till these are done downloading
17:04 <McSpiddles> warning sd
17:04 <Self_Destructo> ...
17:04 <McSpiddles> i got most of these reports from the alien clan
17:04 <Self_Destructo> reports?
17:05 <McSpiddles> spy reports
17:05 <McSpiddles> they're mostly alien members
17:05 <Self_Destructo> SWEET!!!!!!
17:05 <Self_Destructo> :)
17:05 <McSpiddles> http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6359&start=165
17:05 <McSpiddles> they don't seem to have much defense
17:05 <McSpiddles> as you can see
17:05 <McSpiddles> :p
17:06 <Self_Destructo> haha
17:07 <McSpiddles> i need a name for my 5th planet
17:07 <Self_Destructo> I saw that, that guy kept spying on everyone 6 times a day for about 3 days consecutive and even attacked a few of us in that time at 6.227
17:07 <McSpiddles> 'er
17:07 <McSpiddles> 9th
17:08 <McSpiddles> really?
17:08 <McSpiddles> well,he got pwnt :p
17:08 <McSpiddles> i got 6bombers now too
17:08 <McSpiddles> you know what we really need sd....
17:09 <McSpiddles> a few people with lvl 4 silos in g6
17:09 <McSpiddles> we could set the alien guys back a couple hundred :p
17:09 <McSpiddles> from what i've heard,psquare has destroyers to
17:11 * McSpiddles is now playing: Immortal Technique - Dance with the devil
17:11 <Self_Destructo> nice
17:11 <Self_Destructo> he does?
17:11 <Self_Destructo> heh
17:11 <McSpiddles> fire said he did
17:12 <Self_Destructo> well, I'm going to talk to gibyson and see if he has much help for me
17:12 <McSpiddles> :)
17:12 <McSpiddles> it's strange,this guy kept attacking me,he's now ranked 360something
17:12 <Self_Destructo> I am so spread out that I really have to make every planet live for itself, thier own fleet, ect.
17:12 <Self_Destructo> heh
17:13 <McSpiddles> so i started responding to his spys
17:13 <McSpiddles> then we kinda started talking regularly
17:13 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:20 * Self_Destructo has already found some nice farms in g6
17:21 <McSpiddles> :)
17:21 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034185181.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:22 <ghableska> hi Vanhayes
17:22 <Vanhayes> hey
17:25 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
17:26 <Self_Destructo> hi
17:28 <McSpiddles> http://order.1and1.com/xml/order/Hosting;jsessionid=CD301C7A916AC3B76852A5D23239A954.TC61a?__frame=_top&__lf=Static
17:28 <McSpiddles> wow
17:28 <McSpiddles> all i can say....
17:29 <McSpiddles> i pay $19 a month on 2 hosting packages that can't touch that
17:30 <McSpiddles> i think i'ma switch
17:31 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034185181.nb.aliant.net] has quit []
17:54 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:54 <ghableska> Hi
17:55 <Self_Destructo> wb
17:57 <wrtlprnft> wb
18:00 <McSpiddles> wb d0000d
18:00 <ghableska> :)
18:00 <McSpiddles> woot
18:01 <McSpiddles> 1.77 gigs downloaded
18:12 <ghableska> .
18:13 <McSpiddles> ..
18:13 <wrtlprnft> ...
18:13 <nemostultae> ....
18:13 <McSpiddles> ....
18:13 * wrtlprnft got the pattern! yay
18:13 <wrtlprnft> s...
18:13 <McSpiddles> ping pong
18:13 <McSpiddles> | .
18:13 <McSpiddles> . |
18:13 <wrtlprnft> #echo [pang] [peng] [ping] [pong] [pung]
18:13 <armabot> peng ping pong pung pang
18:14 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:14 <McSpiddles> | .
18:14 <McSpiddles> . |
18:14 <McSpiddles> | .
18:14 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:14 <McSpiddles> that didn't work so well
18:14 <ghableska> �
18:14 <ghableska> Er.
18:14 <ghableska> Oops. :-\
18:14 <wrtlprnft>
18:14 <wrtlprnft>
18:14 <ghableska>
18:15 <wrtlprnft>
18:15 <McSpiddles> ??????
18:15 <wrtlprnft> now this channel went totally cray
18:15 <wrtlprnft> *crazy
18:15 <McSpiddles> ?��??�
18:16 <McSpiddles> ????
18:16 <wrtlprnft> ??????? is all i see
18:16 <ghableska> !_!
18:16 <wrtlprnft> stop using that windows-1234 encoding
18:16 <McSpiddles> no
18:16 <ghableska> I see three ?'s.
18:16 <ghableska> and some weird symbol things
18:16 <wrtlprnft> ���
18:17 <McSpiddles> it's unicode big endian
18:17 <ghableska> {:--+--:}
18:17 <McSpiddles> wrtl,how do you see my name in tron when i use ascii?
18:17 <wrtlprnft> you can't be sending in unicode, i wouldn't get ??? then
18:17 <McSpiddles> it's unicode d00d
18:17 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: whatdya mean?
18:17 <McSpiddles> i mean when i use weird chars in tron
18:18 <McSpiddles> what do they look like
18:18 <wrtlprnft> why shouldn't i see it?
18:18 <McSpiddles> nvm :/
18:18 <wrtlprnft> the only thing that is not possible anymore is those flag things
18:18 <wrtlprnft> #canada
18:18 <armabot> 4
18:18 <wrtlprnft> looks like I'm the only one that can see that
18:18 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
18:18 <McSpiddles> i see a white block with 4 in it
18:19 <ghableska> o_0
18:19 <wrtlprnft> #canada
18:19 <armabot> 4
18:19 <McSpiddles> o_O
18:19 <wrtlprnft_> o_o
18:19 <ghableska> Mine's better:P
18:19 <wrtlprnft_> opera only sees a 4
18:19 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
18:19 <McSpiddles> ???
18:19 <ghableska> I see a 4 with boxes around it
18:19 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
18:19 <McSpiddles> ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????
18:19 <wrtlprnft> #canada
18:19 <armabot> 4
18:19 <ghableska> brownish bxes
18:19 <ghableska> *boxes
18:19 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:19 <McSpiddles> ?? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ? ?????
18:20 <ghableska> ?^?
18:20 <wrtlprnft> all those clients that don't correctly support background colors
18:20 <wrtlprnft> ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?
18:20 <wrtlprnft> it's unicode d00d!
18:20 <McSpiddles> ?hmmm
18:20 <McSpiddles> no
18:20 <McSpiddles> that's not unicode
18:20 <McSpiddles> that's cryllic
18:20 <McSpiddles> cyrillic
18:20 <wrtlprnft> that's your client converting the characters it can't send to ?
18:21 <McSpiddles> no,that's cyrillic transliterated
18:21 <wrtlprnft> if it was unicode and my client would interpret it as latin-1 i would see weird chars
18:21 <wrtlprnft> not ?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> zzz. open another instance of your client and see for yourself
18:21 <McSpiddles> lol
18:21 <wrtlprnft> it won't get the message
18:22 <McSpiddles> k
18:22 <McSpiddles> hold on
18:22 <ghableska> blah
18:22 <wrtlprnft> ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?
18:22 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:22 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:23 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:23 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:23 <wrtlprnft> hi, bye
18:23 * ghableska hates biology
18:23 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:23 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:23 <McSpiddles> eh
18:23 <McSpiddles> i don't think freenode likes me
18:24 <wrtlprnft> /me likes that freenode doesn't like McSpiddles
18:24 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:24 -!- spider [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:24 <McSpiddles> 'um
18:24 <McSpiddles> ok
18:24 <McSpiddles> i closed that client along time ago
18:25 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:25 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:25 <McSpiddles> ...
18:25 <ghableska> :
18:25 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
18:25 <McSpiddles> there
18:25 <McSpiddles> finally
18:26 <McSpiddles> ?????? ???????
18:26 <McSpiddles> hrh
18:26 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:26 <ghableska> hrh!
18:26 <McSpiddles> ???���
18:26 <McSpiddles> now
18:26 <McSpiddles> i see that
18:26 <ghableska> aah
18:26 <wrtlprnft> ???????
18:26 <ghableska> ?
18:27 <McSpiddles> ?fgererdf
18:27 <ghableska> hjkhjk?
18:27 <McSpiddles> ?dfgdfgdfg
18:27 <ghableska> uiuoi
18:27 <McSpiddles> test
18:27 <McSpiddles> bold
18:27 <McSpiddles> :>
18:27 <ghableska> :)
18:27 <wrtlprnft> *bold*
18:27 <wrtlprnft> _underlined_
18:27 <McSpiddles> test
18:27 <wrtlprnft> /italic/
18:27 <McSpiddles> :p
18:28 <ghableska> underlined_bold_italic
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <ghableska> hi there
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there
18:28 <ghableska> hi
18:28 <ghableska> wee
18:28 <ghableska> hard on the eyes
18:28 <ghableska> any better?
18:28 <McSpiddles> rainbow
18:28 <wrtlprnft> i should write like that all the time
18:28 <ghableska> pretty
18:29 <McSpiddles> yes you should
18:29 <McSpiddles> i have colors stripped :p
18:29 <wrtlprnft> sooo much fun, especially if it's white on black like for me
18:29 * spidey slaps wrtlprnft around with a cream filled donut...... smack ... smack ... smack .. :)
18:29 <wrtlprnft> heh
18:29 -!- You're now known as someone
18:29 <spidey> i love this client
18:29 * someone slaps Lucifer_arma
18:29 <ghableska> and herewe go...
18:29 * someone slaps Lucifer_arma
18:29 * someone slaps Lucifer_arma
18:29 <ghableska> lol
18:29 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
18:29 <wrtlprnft> just for the stats
18:29 * spidey I'm too sexy for my shirt, wrtlprnft so please, rip it off me while youre at it take all my clothes off!
18:30 <ghableska> ............
18:30 <spidey> heh
18:30 <McSpiddles> i'm just bored
18:30 * McSpiddles is now playing: Necro - I Need Drugs
18:30 * spidey slaps wrtlprnft around a bit with a large chockie cheesecake in a dreamy raspberry sauce... :)
18:30 <ghableska> mmhmm
18:30 * wrtlprnft is now playing: Armagetron Advanced - A tron clone in 3D
18:30 -!- You're now known as someone
18:31 * someone slaps McSpiddles
18:31 * someone slaps McSpiddles
18:31 * someone slaps McSpiddles
18:31 * someone slaps McSpiddles
18:31 * someone slaps McSpiddles
18:31 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
18:31 <McSpiddles> lol
18:31 * ghableska hands McSpiddles a cheesecake.
18:31 * spidey slaps wrtlprnft to wake his up....
18:31 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:31 * spidey grabs wrtlprnft's underwear. pulls it over wrtlprnft's Head..... Now you look much better. The brown stain accentuates the shoes.
18:32 <McSpiddles> lol
18:32 <wrtlprnft> /ignore spidey
18:32 <ghableska> lol
18:32 <McSpiddles> :p
18:32 <wrtlprnft> 18:32 Ignoring ALL from spidey
18:32 * ghableska pokes someone
18:32 <lawl> :p
18:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:33 Ignoring ALL from *@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
18:33 <McSpiddles> :/
18:33 <McSpiddles> i can do a macclone :p
18:35 <wrtlprnft> did i silence McSpiddles now, too?
18:35 <ghableska> ?
18:35 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:35 <ghableska> spidey=McSpiddles?
18:35 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:40 <ghableska> so...
18:43 * ghableska pokes wrtlprnft
18:46 * wrtlprnft pokes ghableska
18:46 <wrtlprnft> #..
18:46 <wrtlprnft> #...
18:46 <ghableska> #echo
18:46 <armabot> ghableska: (echo <text>) -- Returns the arguments given it. Uses our standard substitute on the string(s) given to it; $nick (or $who), $randomNick, $randomInt, $botnick, $channel, $user, $host, $today, $now, and $randomDate are all handled appropriately.
18:46 <ghableska> Um...
18:46 <ghableska> nevermind
18:46 <wrtlprnft> #Luke-Jr
18:46 <armabot> Luke-Jr: We already thought of that
18:47 <ghableska> #ghableska
18:47 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:47 <ghableska> ?
18:47 <ghableska> O_o
18:47 <wrtlprnft> O_O
18:47 <wrtlprnft> o_o
18:47 <ghableska> o_0
18:47 <wrtlprnft> �_o
18:47 <ghableska> o_o
18:48 <wrtlprnft> interesting ...conversation...
18:48 <ghableska> very
18:48 * wrtlprnft goes off to fortress
18:48 <ghableska> oops
18:48 <ghableska> #armabot
18:48 <armabot> ghableska: Maybe...
18:49 <ghableska> #armabot where did wrtlprnft go?
18:49 <armabot> ghableska: Maybe...
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19:26 <ghableska> hi.
19:27 <spider> sd?
19:27 <ghableska> ?
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19:54 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Luke-Jr, SuPeRTaRD-bbl
20:12 <wrtlprnft> many netsplits right now...
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21:16 <lawl> http://fallinangels.no-ip.biz/
--- Log opened Mon May 22 21:19:21 2006
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21:22 <Lucifer_arma> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
21:22 * n54 is half awake now
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> butter sauce with garlic powder, paprika, and thyme, used to sauce skewers on the grill :)
21:23 <n54> the skewers??
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> only next time I won't overcook the damn things so the chicken will melt in my mouth :)
21:23 <n54> or is that code for some kind of meat
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> you take cutup vegetables and meat, in about 2-3 cm squares, and stick them on a stick, then grill the whole assembly
21:24 <n54> ah ok
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> we did chicken, yellow onion, bell pepper, and corn on the cob
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> then the butter sauce, while cooking, like a baste
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> then eat it when it's done. :)
21:24 <n54> barbeque maniac :)
21:25 * Lucifer_arma resembles that remark
21:25 <n54> hehe cool
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> you can do skewers in the oven, too, but barbecue gives a nice woody flavor you don't get in the oven
21:25 <n54> I know :S
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:26 <n54> ever tried grilled (barbequed) salmon?
21:26 <n54> ther fish will probably do well too
21:26 <n54> other*
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, did some of that a few weeks ago.
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> so far the only seafood I've done on the grill has been salmon, and it was that one time.
21:27 <n54> yummy stuff, my aunt has a knack for making that
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> if I could buy shrimp already peeled and deveined, it would make an excellent addition to these skewers I just did
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:27 <n54> good idea
21:28 <n54> I need to buy a wok some time soon
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> The salmon I did was very good. That's good considering it was a first run for me
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> I'd expect it to get better. I want to do more seafood, but here in landlocked central texas it isn't cheap
21:28 <n54> yeah it can be a bit tricky, did you wrap them in foil or something like that for a while?
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> what? The skewers?
21:28 <n54> ah
21:28 <n54> the salmon :)
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> ah. no, I didn't.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> and I had a hard time keeping it from sticking to the grill. :(
21:29 <n54> it can help a bit as they can get a bit lose
21:29 <n54> yeah
21:29 <n54> loose*
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> and fish meat being flaky like it is....
21:29 <n54> yep exactly
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> I used a spatula to get it off and was able to get it mostly intact, but I'm considering foil on the bottom for the next time :)
21:30 <n54> yeah, I'm not sure exactly how she does it, haven't been around at the start of the process
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. Does it come out as fillets, or a whole fish?
21:30 <n54> she does fillets
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I did. I'm not keen to deal with the prep involved in cooking a whole fish
21:31 <n54> but with bone & skin which you disperse of when eating
21:31 <n54> yeah no that sounds overly complicated to me too
21:31 <n54> or well... I know how to do that with a campfire; just wrap the whole fish in foil and bury it :D
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'm concerned about the smoke, though. I want the smoke from the fire to flavor the meat
21:32 <n54> but it's not practical for a nice dinner really :)
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> it'll probably change when I finally have a real smoker instead of just this little grill. :)
21:32 <n54> yeah that's what got me wondering how my aunt does it because it cn't be foil all the time
21:33 <n54> she just has a small fabricated grill
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm considering maybe a piece of foil on the bottom, punched with holes
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> then, if needed, wrap the sucker in foil to finish cooking, but that probably wouldn't be necessary for a fillet
21:33 <n54> but... I remeber seen the grill stripes of the fish meat so at some point either early or late it's directly on the grill I think
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> I only wrap big pieces of meat, starting around 4 lbs and going up
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> would have to be early, so the smoke can cook in, I think.
21:34 <n54> yeah probably she just put's it over on foil late on
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> she could also have a better grill where it's easier to take the meat off. :) Mine's a really cheap grill, man. real cheap.
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> if it hadn't been a present, I wouldn't have it. I wouldn't have bought one like this. :) (I'm happy to have it, though)
21:35 <n54> I don't think it's anything expensive she has, just an average small grill
21:35 <n54> :)
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> sometimes you get a real gem with a nice grill. See, that's what makes or breaks it anyway. That and air flow controls.
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> the rest almost doesn't matter. Mine's just got those round little stick-bars, and the meat flows around them and then sticks to them.
21:35 <n54> I've got a "porch" (veranda?) up here in the block i live but it's forbidden to grill here
21:36 <n54> sounds just like what she has
21:36 <Lucifer_arma> There are some that are nice and flat and very easy to peel meat off. I used to have a brinkerman (sp?) that was very nice like that. Er, that was the one I used in the barbecue stand.
21:36 <n54> ok
--- Log closed Mon May 22 21:36:40 2006
--- Log opened Mon May 22 21:37:56 2006
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21:37 <n54> yeah stuff happens
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> and every few years some little kid gets killed in it.
21:38 <n54> :S
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> in Austin there's a city ordnance now that requires you to place your grill certain minimum distance from any overhangs, and the fine is really huge
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> that's what makes it a pain. That's an ordnance I'll willingly obey, but it always put my grill out in the parking lot, and I was usually on the 2nd floor.
21:39 <n54> ok we're not having that much trouble with it here afaik, mostly it's more drunken lunatics having fun flaming their grill with various fuels
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> even here in my house I still follow that guideline, but it's different. It's my own yard, with fence, and stuff.
21:40 <n54> yeah
21:40 <Lucifer_arma> well it used to be a big problem. That ordnance has probably saved a lot of lives. :)
21:40 <n54> :)
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm going to change my alarm clock to just use os.system() to play music
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> get rid of this stinking plugin architecture and all that crap. No need for it, really.
21:41 <n54> your py alarm?
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, only I renamed it. When I release the pyQt version it has a new name, Dave's Stupid Alarm Clock.
21:42 <n54> hehe :)
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> and if I can find a good commandline mp3 player, then the windows version will be straightforward.
21:42 <wrtlprnft> just let it call beep -l 2000 :D
21:42 <n54> hehe
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> I made that plugin by tank's request, actually. For all I know, he's still using it, too.
21:43 <wrtlprnft> i usually have my normal speakers on, but PC speakers work
21:43 <n54> ask him :)
21:43 <wrtlprnft> *off
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22:11 * n54 hates running out of smoke in the early early morning *away*
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23:40 <guru3> quiero que hablarais en espanol porque tengo mi examen de espanol hoy
23:40 <n54> :)
23:41 <n54> what does hoy mean?
23:41 <guru3> (i want you all to speak spanish because i have my spanish exam today)
23:41 <guru3> g2g breakfast
23:41 <guru3> bbiab
23:47 <guru3> habia regresado
23:48 <guru3> = (i have returned) i think...
23:48 <n54> :)
23:49 <guru3> maybe not...
23:49 <guru3> babelfish says it had returned...
23:49 <n54> don't trust babelfish
23:52 <guru3> he regresado
23:52 <guru3> have is present tense it seems
23:53 <guru3> yes that makes sense
23:53 <guru3> it's all coming back to me...
23:54 <guru3> pues, espero que vengar a mi
23:55 <guru3> *viene
23:55 <guru3> no vengar
23:56 <guru3> *not
23:56 <guru3> cause i wanted come (venir) but thought vengar (revenge) :/
23:56 <guru3> :/
23:56 <n54> I don't speak spanish so... but :)
23:56 <guru3> so really i said (well, i hope to take revenge on myself)
23:56 <guru3> i thnk
23:56 <guru3> *i think
23:56 <guru3> o'
23:57 <guru3> i'm not really a first class spanish speaker
23:57 <guru3> join #spanish
23:57 <n54> me? no way hehe
23:57 <guru3> darn no channel :/
23:57 <n54> ah
23:58 <guru3> the topic to #linux-es is great
23:58 <n54> what does it say+
23:58 <n54> ?*
23:58 <guru3> "Do you know what software Bin Laden uses for his portable? GNU/Linux"
23:59 <n54> well... they mostly use windows afaik
23:59 <n54> so hopefully they are only trying to pull a joke
23:59 <guru3> who knows
Log from 2006-05-23:
--- Day changed Tue May 23 2006
00:00 <guru3> but i accidently pasted the translation in the chanel
00:00 <guru3> and now i've said sorry in spanish
00:00 <guru3> except i bet my grammer was terrible
00:00 <n54> perhaps someone there will jelp out?
00:00 <n54> help*
00:00 <guru3> i don't have a problem :P
00:00 <guru3> well
00:00 <guru3> not a spanish linux one
00:01 <n54> many channels are liberal on off-topic stuff so you can always ask and/or go private (openbsd is a madhouse XD)
00:02 <guru3> hehe it's ok
00:02 <guru3> my spanish teacher didn't think i was too bad
00:02 <guru3> then again, there were only 2 people in my class
00:02 <n54> :)
00:02 <n54> hehe
00:02 <guru3> so it might have been a lack of options...
00:03 <n54> sort of like me doing norwegian in singapore... 2 in class :)
00:03 <guru3> one or two people here did norwegian
00:03 <n54> had a way cool teacher though an englishman with a norwegian wife
00:04 <guru3> cool
00:04 <n54> and two hyperactive kids ^^
00:04 <guru3> i don't speak norwegian
00:04 * n54 misses the teachers at uwcsea
00:04 <guru3> och jag kan bara pratar svenska
00:04 <n54> hehe :)
00:04 <guru3> and i have no clue what i just said
00:05 <n54> a bit broken but it's ok
00:05 <n54> jag kan inte snakka svenska
00:05 <guru3> i can't do verbs at all in swedish
00:06 <n54> yeah you should have said prata rather than pratar
00:06 <n54> not important :)
00:06 <guru3> well there you go
00:06 <guru3> i do like saying "jas�" really drawn out tho
00:07 <guru3> cracks me up
00:07 <n54> like jaaaah?
00:07 * n54 doesn't know any word "jas" but then again I really don't speak swedish
00:07 <guru3> aw crap
00:07 <guru3> the a with the o
00:07 <guru3> is at the end of that
00:08 <guru3> stupid improper character sets
00:08 <n54> jass?? that would be in norwegian :)
00:08 <guru3> minus one s
00:08 <n54> ok :)
00:09 <n54> that word is why scandinavians have a bad habit of saying "really?" as it's the closest but not really the same
00:09 <guru3> yeah
00:09 <guru3> well there's the other word
00:10 <guru3> laga(o)m
00:10 <n54> hehe lagom
00:10 <guru3> yeah
00:10 <guru3> not really sure how it's spelt
00:10 * n54 wonders what he should translate that to in norwegian
00:10 <n54> "s?nn passe" would be one alternative
00:11 <n54> or just "passe"
00:11 <guru3> funky
00:11 <n54> mm yeah, there are lots of differences, especially in pronounciation
00:11 <guru3> one of the students in my english class is (was?) norwegian
00:11 <n54> most likely is
00:11 <guru3> well i meant in that
00:11 <guru3> can i still say english class
00:12 <guru3> when there really aren't any more classes
00:12 <guru3> but school hasn't ended yet
00:12 <n54> oh :)
00:13 <guru3> yeah
00:13 <guru3> and now i've got to go
00:13 <guru3> see ya
00:13 <n54> cya and best fo luck :)
00:13 <n54> of*
00:13 <guru3> thnx
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> adios amigo
00:31 <n54> hehe
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> donde esta el bano?
00:31 <n54> where is the tube?
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> look, I'm *not* going to find the enye key, ok?
00:32 <n54> ??
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> ban(enye)o = bathroom
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> restroom, pisser, whatever
00:32 <n54> bano doesn't mean undeground?
00:32 <n54> underground tube system*
00:33 <spider> lol
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> it might, I suppose. But when I was in the 4th grade, we learned "PUedo ir al bano?" means "May I go to the bathroom?"
00:33 <n54> oh
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> and I remember forgetting that, and he had to ask in Spanish to be allowed to go, and I said "Donde esta el bano?", doing the piss dance and all
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> and the teacher said "Down the hall, why?"
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> damn near pissed my pants, but she relented and let me go without having asked in spanish. :)
00:34 <n54> meen
00:35 <n54> /s/meen/mean
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmm. erm. Ok, I never did figure out how to say "I've gotta pee". bbiab
00:37 <n54> cya
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01:11 <Lucifer_arma> http://alinux.org/ <--- THis link brought to you by the letters W, T, and F
01:12 <n54> loading, never seen it before
01:14 <n54> targeting gamers?
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> beats me. I couldn't really get a feel for it, since the website is just another "Give me all your money" website
01:15 <GodTodd> targeting fundies it looks like to me ;)
01:15 <n54> yup
01:15 <n54> fundies? :)
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> you noticed the bible study thing? :)
01:15 <GodTodd> yep
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> http://linuxpakistan.sourceforge.net/pklinux/info.html
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> this one looks fun
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> not sure if I like slackware-based, though.
01:15 <n54> sure, if you speak urdu ;)
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> but it's derived from a fairly recent slackware
01:16 <n54> here's something really interesting; an iranians outlook on present iraq http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/Taheri_0606.htm
01:17 <n54> some typesetting snafus but nevertheless
01:17 <n54> info on the author http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Taheri
01:19 <GodTodd> w00t...climbin' the walls came in today :D
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01:25 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/About <--- looks very promising
01:26 <n54> you're looking for a distro for the carbox? or something else?
01:26 <n54> but looks nice any way
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> carbox
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> I figured there had to be a distro out there somewhere that was designed small with the purpose of being extended
01:29 <n54> :)
01:29 <n54> good thinking
01:29 <n54> I've actually seen rock before but forgot about it
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> As CPU-Speed and RAM goes up, the amount of necessary patience goes down. :)
01:29 <n54> hehe :)
01:30 <n54> brb
01:58 <n54> bah-hahaha I've come across a "word I hadn't heard before; "ego dildo" aka microphone XD
01:59 <n54> /s/"word/term
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Changing_the_package_selection
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I found what I need. :)
02:08 <n54> :)
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> it's as good as the LFS option, only without all the "build it from scratch" stuff
02:09 <n54> cool
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> automated distribution build process. Looks like I can just give a package list and it'll build an iso image that'll install a binary distribution for me.
02:11 <n54> niice
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't look like they have an armagetron package, though, heh
02:24 <n54> not surprised really :)
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02:27 <n54> on lisp (funny): http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186047&cid=15355848
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02:45 <z-man> yawn, morning
02:45 <n54> morning :)
02:45 * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: that was a pretty interesting article on Iraq
02:49 <n54> yes I thought so too, however it's just an opinon of course (but I'll admit I'd like it to be true)
02:50 <n54> which of coruse sends up a big red warning flag ^^
02:50 <n54> course*
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> hey, if this ROCK linux is all it's cracked up to be, we could use it to make a linux distribution that installs an armagetron dedicated server
02:56 <n54> nice idea
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> I should probably ought to post on this
02:57 <n54> mm yes
02:58 <n54> the dedicated server is all basic computing right? doesn't need x, or graphic cards or anything like that?
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> nothing like that. Just needs its dependencies and the network.
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> of course, we'd want to include apache and some other stuff, the point was always to bundle the best of the various support scripts people have written,
03:00 <n54> that's what I thought
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> possibly write a configurator program for it.
03:00 <n54> throw in pf or some such too?
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> pf?
03:01 <n54> sorry I guess ipfilter?
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, firewall, yes all that stuff
03:01 <n54> pf is obsd stuff /packet filter)
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> and have the installer ask for the server name and some other basic configuration parameters and write them to the file
03:03 <n54> and include openssl for remote "direct" admin?
03:03 <n54> err. ssh
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> ssh, yeah
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe have a wxPython or pyQt client that uses ssh to configure the server and other stuff like that
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> or webpages for the purpose
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> now we'd have to consider having it able to host its own resources
03:08 <n54> like most thing it would probably need to evolve a bit
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03:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, definitely
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> the main thing would be to make something easy to install for people who've never used LInux. Basically, if we can build something Dr. Joe Tron can use, then we've succeeded.
03:13 <n54> yes (although I have no idea about Dr. Joe's *nix skills)
03:13 <n54> and just about any somewhat old box should do
03:14 <n54> perhaps snag whatever knoppix etc. uses for autoconfiguration of hw
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> presumably this rock-linux thing has some autoconfiguration of hw thing already
03:20 <n54> perhaps
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> it has a full-blown desktop distribution target
03:21 <n54> it would be nice if it does :)
03:21 <n54> was it debian-based?
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, let me get something built with it first and I"ll let you know :)
03:21 <n54> :)
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not debian-based. It's its own based.
03:21 <n54> ok
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06:29 <guru3> woo done
06:33 <z-man> Your tests? How did it go?
06:34 <guru3> not bad
06:34 <guru3> no more exams now
06:35 <guru3> i'm free to completely screw up the forusm :D
06:36 <guru3> and what are decorators in layman's language?
06:39 <Lucifer_arma> they're people that come into your house and tell you you have no taste in furniture
06:40 <guru3> the c++ ones i meant :/
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, member variables that come into your class and tell you you have no coding style?
06:43 * Lucifer_arma thinks he just made a really bad pun
06:43 <guru3> Oo
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know what decorators are. Or rather, I might know, but if I do, it'll be one of those things that I know improperly, i.e. without any of the proper defiitions and terms and stuff
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm currently fooling with rock linux :)
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> and waking up the family for school
06:44 <guru3> yeah i saw that post
06:45 <guru3> that's pretty cool
06:45 <guru3> ArmaCDTron
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> :)
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> here I am, thinking about how we can make a distribution for windows guys that want to use Linux for their servers but don't have the time or confidence to fool with a regular distribution
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> and all you guys can think about are lan parties
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> I swearuh
06:46 <guru3> but you could have the client too!
06:47 <Lucifer_arma> um, we couldn't distribute it with the binary drivers for certain video cards (unless they gave us permission to do so)
06:47 <guru3> crap
06:48 <Lucifer_arma> gpl problems, eh?
06:48 <guru3> fuck them & do it anyway :D
06:49 <guru3> i'm sure it could be worked around
06:49 <guru3> or give them 10fps mesa software rendering
06:49 <guru3> you can play @ 10fps
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. It's either we need permission from nvidia and ati to distribute their drivers,
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> or it doesn't matter because the drivers taint the kernel and we'd be violating the kernel license
06:50 <guru3> bleh
06:50 <guru3> ain't no one been sued over that
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> there are things that are worse than getting sued :)
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> how about a slashdot article about how evil we are for distributing a tainted kernel? heh
06:50 <n54> lol
06:51 <n54> and congrats guru3 :)
06:51 <guru3> thnx n54
06:52 <z-man> Every publicity is good publicity, I'd say! Let's fuck the kernel.
06:52 <n54> would those gfx blobs fit on a floppy?
06:52 <n54> hehe z-man
06:53 <z-man> The downloads are in the range of 20mb for nvidia (heaven knows why), so probably: no
06:53 <n54> yikes
06:53 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: about decorators: think of them as what you get in scripting languages anyway :)
06:53 <z-man> In script, everyone can put data into any object.
06:53 <z-man> Decorators allow that in C++.
06:53 * n54 runs back to kitchen - has made chop suey (sp?) for the first time ever
06:54 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that could be insanely useful
06:54 <z-man> Eeeexactly ;)
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> can you put functions into an object, then?
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> or just variables?
06:55 <z-man> Just variables for now
06:55 <z-man> but the variables can have any type
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> such as a function pointer?
06:55 <z-man> Such as
06:55 <z-man> or simply a class with a function
06:56 <z-man> Using it is a tiny bit awkward:
06:56 <z-man> decorator[object].function()
06:56 <z-man> instead of object.function()
06:56 * z-man has to remember to add a way to get from the decoration object back to the full object
06:57 <Lucifer_arma> ah, the moment of truth. Did I just forget to add a package to the distribution?
06:57 <guru3> lol
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> this is neat. I was reading the lfs book thinking about how I could write python scripts to do everything while I worked my way through it,
06:58 <z-man> I'm compiling svn for the third time today :)
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> so that when I finished I could make any new distribution from it.
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> then I found this rock-linux thing, where they did it already, only using shell scripts. :)
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> why compiling svn so much?
06:58 <z-man> First time with default USE=minimal
06:59 <z-man> second time with USE=-minimal perl to get the damned perl bindings
06:59 <z-man> that then fails, because it uses swig, and that has no perl support compiled in
06:59 <z-man> so USE=perl python ruby emerge swig...
06:59 <guru3> ...
06:59 <z-man> and emerge svn again :)
07:00 <z-man> USE=-minimal can be quite annoying at times.
07:00 <z-man> err, USE=minimal;
07:00 <z-man> err, USE=minimal
07:01 <z-man> It's not the first time I had to go on a reompilation spree because that's my default :)
07:01 <guru3> lol
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> why doesn't ^C evre aactually stop cat?
07:03 <z-man> Wait, my decorator function example makes no sense :)
07:04 <guru3> yeah
07:04 <n54> is cat in kernel? if so that's the explanation afaik
07:04 <z-man> Instead of doing that, you can just use a regular non-member function. The decorator function doesn't have access to private regular members anyway.
07:04 <guru3> it does Lucifer_arma, just takes time
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm glad I wasn't just sleepy
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> if this rock-linux thing works, I might well find myself switching to it
07:05 <guru3> funky
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> it has all the advantages of a source-based distribution, with all the added advantages of a binary distribution
07:06 <z-man> Now, virtual decorator functions would be neat, and I think they could be possible. But virtual functions are usually part of the interface and belong into the class. I guess we'll have to wait for use cases to see if it makes sense :)
07:06 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: don't you have to rebuild the whole thing if something changes?
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> ? there's a package manager... after the thing is installed it's just another source-based distribution
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> or I could build all the packages myself and stash them in my own repo
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer Linux (tm)
07:07 <z-man> hehe
07:07 <wrtlprnft> z-man: well, tell me whan i can actually use those decorators. I wanna use them for my rTextBox
07:07 <n54> :)
07:08 <z-man> wrtlprnft: what for? Keeping the private data out of the interface?
07:08 <n54> or perhaps Lux Nux for short :)
07:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, yes.
07:09 <z-man> Or LuLiNu
07:09 <z-man> Ah, not enough x.
07:09 <n54> lol XD
07:09 <wrtlprnft> that class needs a deque of some objects that store the text, position and color of each "chunk"
07:09 <n54> no LuLiNu is great imo :)
07:09 <wrtlprnft> so for rendering it just needs to iterate through them and render each one
07:10 <wrtlprnft> but i wanna keep that second class out of the interface
07:10 <z-man> I see.
07:10 <z-man> I'll give you a ping when the thing is committed.
07:11 <wrtlprnft> well, your post said i shouldn't use it yet
07:12 <z-man> Well, make it so you can switch to a regular pimpl idiom without too much pain
07:12 <z-man> put all your decorations into one struct
07:12 <z-man> and access that struct not directly over the decorator interface, but some function
07:12 <z-man> and in case the decorators blow up, make the function work another way.
07:12 <wrtlprnft> i could just make it a private nested class if you like and screw decorators :P
07:13 <z-man> Yes, from an interface point of view, that hides the information just as well.
07:13 <z-man> From the compilation dependency viewpoint, not.
07:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but if i change that private class half the tron project has to be recompiled
07:14 <z-man> But a private nested class can be turned into a decorator quite easily.
07:14 <z-man> yes, that's the compilation dependency viewpoint :)
07:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know
07:14 <wrtlprnft> i was just typing when your message popped up and sent it anyways
07:15 <z-man> thought so
07:16 <z-man> Well, use decorators if you want to give them a try. Doesn't hurt to do real world tests. I don't think they will collide with scripting anyway.
07:16 <z-man> As long as SWIG uses the C++ new and delete operators to manage objects, everything should be fine.
07:17 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:18 <z-man> Ah, finally got a working SubMaster client
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> submaster looks like a subproject of rock-linux
07:22 <wrtlprnft> yay, the antispam thingy works. no spam in two days!
07:23 <n54> cool :)
07:23 * n54 looks up submaster
07:25 <n54> two different things right?
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/SubMaster
07:25 <n54> btw the cool was about the lack of forum spam wrtlprnft :)
07:25 <guru3> if we used a source management system based on mysql
07:25 <guru3> would be so easy...
07:25 <wrtlprnft> forum spam?
07:25 <n54> oops
07:25 <n54> yeah that the trick/filter works
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> arrr, you don't do version control in mysql! You use cvs, which is written for the purpose!
07:26 * n54 found that it was indeed the same
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> not forum spam, wiki spam
07:26 <n54> my bad
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, pay attention n54!
07:28 * Lucifer_arma cracks n54 on the wrist with a ruler
07:28 <n54> yeah that was below par :S
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> yay, it's building gcc for the second time
07:29 * n54 doesn't worry since it was one of those wacky bendable rubber rulers
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> which will make it like the 6th time I've built gcc today
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> dude, those bendable rubber rulers are more dangerous than the wooden ones
07:29 <n54> why+
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> but give me a leather one any day
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> get it flopping back and forth, then swing it
07:29 <n54> won't get that from me :D
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> extra power, mechanical advantage from the swing, + the energy of the swing itself
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> only this time, it's building gcc with the gcc I just built
07:31 <n54> you know too much on this subject... *puts on armor*
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> gcc is building gcc and warning me that #include_next is a gcc extension
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> how lame is that?
07:35 <z-man> Odd :) But GCC also needs to build using other compilers.
07:40 * wrtlprnft wants everything on his linux box compiled by a GCC that was build by MSVC6
07:41 * Lucifer_arma wonders why wrtlprnft wants a linux box with a gratuitous dependency on msvcrt.dll
07:42 <z-man> Haha, you won't get that :) GCC always compiles itself with itself afterwards.
07:42 <z-man> Twice, I think.
07:43 <guru3> :/
07:43 <wrtlprnft> compillation mayhem
07:44 <wrtlprnft> i wonder if you could compile VC6 with gcc
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> I read an article by one of the unix guys where he showed how a c compiler maker could do evil things and have them propogate when their c compiler is used to build others...
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> make made make.
07:45 <wrtlprnft> make && make && make
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> make stuff
07:45 <wrtlprnft> fir i in {1..3}; do make; done
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> we should make a stuff target that just depends on all
07:45 <wrtlprnft> *for
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> so we can have our docs say 'configure && make stuff && make install'
07:46 <wrtlprnft> we should have a make debug, like make run, but it should start arma in gdb
07:46 <wrtlprnft> so you don't have to make && gdb src/armagetronad_main
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> we should have a "yourself_scarce" that just depends on distclean
07:47 * wrtlprnft brings out old ideas about gTehSuck
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> this distro-builder is really neat
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> you mean the oop GLTron?
07:47 <wrtlprnft> yes
07:48 <wrtlprnft> just stuff all of GLTron into a single class
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> installed qemu so I can test the distro it builds when it's done
07:48 <wrtlprnft> and never ever use it
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> what about btehsuck?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> branch
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> we'll implement every hare-brained idea someone suggests there
07:49 <wrtlprnft> we should really get some of their rendering code, though
07:49 <wrtlprnft> like, the explosion effect and the walls
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> "How about wings? Can I have wings?" "Sure, check out tehsuck branch"
07:49 <z-man> :)
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> the explosion effect is just a particle system with a few models, we can swing that
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> as long as the kernel this thing uses is reasonably featureful and I don't have to configure it, I'm going to love this thing
07:50 <wrtlprnft> even that round blast they have?
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> round blast?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> that shockwave thingy?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> yellow
07:50 * Lucifer_arma wonders how long its been since he played gltron
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> tell you what, get the particle system building and we'll have explosions that'll make gltron's look like toys
07:51 <wrtlprnft> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3714284
07:51 <wrtlprnft> how true
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be the difference between a sci-fi movie made in 2006 compared to a sci-fi movie made in 1911
07:53 <wrtlprnft> i wonder which project is the chinese calligraphy by a couple of buddhist monks
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> his
07:53 <wrtlprnft> and which one is the stick-sketches on a sandy beach drawn by a shift-wrecked voodoo priest
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> ours
07:53 <wrtlprnft> lol
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> you didn't know z-man can do voodoo?
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> did you completely miss the decorator thread?!?
07:53 <n54> I read that article too, it's ancient and is a proof of concept for a really evil piece of code that would corrupt absolutely everything the compiler did including itself
07:53 <z-man> wait, I thought we were the monks?
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> noooo, 2020 *wants* us to be the monks
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> what I really want to know is who's better? When the gltron guys get their lan thing going and we build in our gltron-network-compatibility code,
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> and we all meet together on some server in switzerland, who's gonna kick the most ass?
07:55 <n54> why switzerland?
07:55 <z-man> They're spoiled by fighting against the AIs all this time. We're spoiled by rubber. Tough question.
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> andi's swiss?
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> we better make the first match a fortress match
07:56 * n54 thought it might have something to do with toblerone, or swiss cheese, or watches, or banks
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> no, we have all that stuff here. The only thing switzerland has that we don't is andi
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, and a glacier.
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, building binutils for the third time
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> I guess it'll do gcc and the rest again
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to bed, this thing looks like it'll finish itself now
07:59 * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
07:59 <n54> cya
08:02 <guru3> studient fest imorgon n54 :)
08:02 <n54> :)
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08:18 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma's sleep habits are kinda weird. You might think he lives in australia or something
08:19 <n54> you think so?
08:20 <wrtlprnft> well...
08:20 <wrtlprnft> up all night and now he goes to bed right as the day starts
08:20 <n54> hmm that's what I do usually, I'm probably biased
08:22 <z-man> I was kind of wondering why he was up that early as well :)
08:22 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> -> ** list truncated to save space on the terminal **
08:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> I don't really go to bed right away when I say I do
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> came back and found my rock-linux wasn't building, it broke, so I double-checked the package list
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> had to make sure it had all the base packages
08:33 <wrtlprnft> it might be nice to distribute CVS HEAD builds on knoppix CDs >)
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> this is really neat. I highly recommend everyone try to build their own custom linux distribution
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm really going to bed now
08:33 <wrtlprnft> Can't, missing a CD burner
08:34 <wrtlprnft> night
08:34 <wrtlprnft> well, at home i can
08:40 <guru3> should i try to write a scm based off of mysql?
08:41 <guru3> save that for a rainy day i guess
08:41 <n54> scm?
08:42 <guru3> source code management
08:42 <guru3> thingy
08:42 <n54> ah
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> don't do it! Then Luke will want to write a CMS based on it
08:51 * Lucifer_arma is aware he's revealing the fact that he never actually sleeps, oops.
08:51 <guru3> but then with mysql replication...
08:51 <guru3> wouldn't matter where someone committed
08:51 <guru3> instant redundancy
08:52 <n54> or alternatively; instant mess :)
08:52 * n54 is good at that
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> n54: don't rain on the man's parade. He's so happy about doing the replication thing that he wants to solve all the world's problems with it, and that's great.
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> Me, I'd build a linux distribution to solve the world's problems.... :)
08:53 <guru3> :)
08:54 <guru3> you can't deny that it's cool Lucifer_arma
08:55 <guru3> http://forums2.armagetronad.net/
08:55 <guru3> got seperate domain working
08:55 <guru3> no funny forwarding problems
08:56 <guru3> now to just get it to transfer new avatars & whatnot
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11:41 <madmax|pt> hi all
11:45 * z-man-work greets max
11:47 <guru3> hello there
11:48 <madmax|pt> decided to take a look at the chan...
11:48 <madmax|pt> havent used irc in a long time
11:48 <guru3> it's not very exciting this time of day
11:49 <guru3> for some reason like the morning (gmt) is when it's liveliest
11:49 <guru3> or mainly
11:49 <guru3> it's liveliest when i've got other stuff to distract me :/
11:52 <madmax|pt> i dont know about other... hmm... "countries", but most of the people i know dont use IRC anymore (or dont even know what is it) and only use MSN Messenger...
11:52 <guru3> yeah lot of people using msn
11:52 <guru3> but i still like irc
11:53 <madmax|pt> M$ monopoly...
11:53 <guru3> hence why i'm here :D
11:53 <madmax|pt> i used to have a lot of fun in IRC, but people stopped.... "showing up"
11:53 <guru3> it's taken a while
11:53 <guru3> but people started showing up here
11:54 <madmax|pt> more people than i expected here :D
11:54 <guru3> and, we're even talking :D
11:54 <guru3> "jackpot!"
11:56 <madmax|pt> lolol
11:56 <madmax|pt> now thats strange...
11:56 <madmax|pt> :D
11:56 <guru3> yeah
11:56 <guru3> often people go
11:56 <guru3> "hello?"
11:56 <guru3> and leave 5 seconds later
11:56 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
11:57 <madmax|pt> yep
12:19 <z-man-work> nemostultae: thanks for the build
12:20 <madmax|pt> nemo is the one who makes the osx binaries right?
12:20 <z-man-work> right
12:42 <spider_> what time is it in germany?
12:43 -!- spider_ is now known as McSpiddles
12:44 <madmax|pt> 19:43...
12:44 <madmax|pt> i guess
12:44 <McSpiddles> what's that in a 12 hour format?
12:44 <madmax|pt> lol
12:45 <madmax|pt> you're joking, right?
12:45 <McSpiddles> i bought a watch with a digital time and one with the hands
12:45 <McSpiddles> no,i suck at times/timezones
12:46 <madmax|pt> you've noticed that if you do: X-12 you get a 12 hour format?
12:46 <madmax|pt> :P
12:46 <McSpiddles> not really :p
12:46 <McSpiddles> i don't really keep track of my own timezone :/
12:46 <madmax|pt> lol
12:46 <McSpiddles> if it wasn't for that little clock at the bottum of the screen i wouldn't know
12:48 <McSpiddles> gotta take my pups to get there shots today
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16:07 <wrtlprnft> grr. Opera now has that useless tray icon under linux, too :(
16:08 <wrtlprnft> annoyed me under windows and i was happy it didn't show up on linux, and now it does :(
16:08 <wrtlprnft> and the only way to disable it disables the mail client, too
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and it's ugly, too, no transparency. and totally useless
16:19 <madmax|pt> lol
16:20 <wrtlprnft> not lol. I'm mad.
16:20 <madmax|pt> i'm mad too, nice to meet you
16:20 <madmax|pt> :P
16:20 <wrtlprnft> that was something to laugh at windows users for having that thing, and now i have it too
16:21 * wrtlprnft considers switching to firefox or konqueror
16:21 <madmax|pt> ... or console browser?
16:21 <madmax|pt> lol
16:22 <wrtlprnft> everything that doesn't force me to have a tgra
16:22 <wrtlprnft> tray icon
16:24 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:44 <madmax|pt> coming next, a new episode of "wrtl's manifest"
16:44 <madmax|pt> ...or not
16:45 <wrtlprnft> well, it annoys me, having something eating away valuable screen space
16:46 <wrtlprnft> not everyone has a resolution of 1600x1200
16:46 <wrtlprnft> then i indeed wouldn't care about 256 pixels
16:47 <madmax|pt> well, thats true
16:48 <madmax|pt> what window manager do you use?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> kwin
16:52 <wrtlprnft> and no, I won't switch away from kde just because my browser decided to annoy me with some idiotic icon
16:52 <wrtlprnft> and some tray icons are actually useful
16:53 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
16:53 <madmax|pt> get OSX... and its GUI :D
16:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O suure
16:54 <madmax|pt> :P
16:55 <wrtlprnft> OSX looks nice on first view, but everytime i try to do something with it i notice its limits
16:55 <madmax|pt> like?
16:55 <wrtlprnft> for example, i can't really select the color i want something i hilighted to have
16:56 <wrtlprnft> there's just some very weird colors to choose from, and they all suck.
16:56 <nemostultae> Choose Other
16:56 <nemostultae> and you get a colorpicker
16:56 <madmax|pt> huh!?
16:56 <madmax|pt> yep nemo
16:56 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know if that's jsut the setup of the computers in my school, but there are some buttons in the dock i can't get rid of
16:57 <madmax|pt> and can choose... "all" colours
16:57 <wrtlprnft> system settings, finder, safari, quicktime
16:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, that wasn't there for me
16:57 <wrtlprnft> and, yes, the highest mouse speed setting is way too slow for me
16:58 <madmax|pt> finder you cant remove from dock
16:58 <wrtlprnft> and the rest?
16:58 <madmax|pt> not real issues wrtl...
16:58 <madmax|pt> the rest you can
16:58 <wrtlprnft> well, enough issues for me
16:59 <wrtlprnft> well, on that computer I can't, and i never use either of those buttons
16:59 <wrtlprnft> if i want to open a file i use a console window, way faster
17:01 <nemostultae> nothing stoping you from doing that.
17:02 <wrtlprnft> well, fact is that those icons refuse to go away. Might be the setup of those computers, but it annoys me
17:03 <madmax|pt> lol
17:03 <wrtlprnft> and what about the mouse thing?
17:03 <nemostultae> This is a dumb question, but you quit the apps, right?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> yes i do, in fact i never open them
17:04 <wrtlprnft> except finder of course, but i can understand it has to be there
17:04 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
17:05 <madmax|pt> maybe the icons are blocked to avoid users from modifying the default setup
17:05 <madmax|pt> thats a public computer right?
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well, I have my own account on it, but no root rights
17:06 <nemostultae> http://homepage.mac.com/bhines/mousezoom.html <- and it's made by the guy who did the Mac OS X armagetron port
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well, why should I be forced to have those buttons? especially the presence of quicktime smells like it is something apple wanted
17:06 <madmax|pt> btw, i was *trying* to use the mouse with max tracking speed, thats really too fast
17:07 <madmax|pt> wrtl thats probably someone's responsability, not OSX's GUI fault
17:07 <wrtlprnft> why should it even provide an option to lock me in with certain applications in the dock?
17:08 <wrtlprnft> that smells like "all users are stupid, they could remove them by accident and not be able to get them back"
17:08 <madmax|pt> rule no.1: users are stupid
17:08 <wrtlprnft> well, there's levels of stupidity
17:09 <wrtlprnft> and i want to decide how stupid i am, not the system
17:09 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: thanks for the link, I'll try it out tomorrow
17:09 <madmax|pt> deal is, its not the system, its the admin
17:10 <madmax|pt> is it the OSX Server?
17:10 <wrtlprnft> probably the admin is an apple guy since the systems are sponsored
17:10 <nemostultae> last release: Mar 12, 2002. You may want to look for a different solution
17:10 <wrtlprnft> which means they would have an interest in forcing people to quicktime
17:10 <madmax|pt> quick search: http://macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36788
17:11 <nemostultae> You can launch apps when you log in and have them hidden, you are sure they are not running?
17:11 <nemostultae> No black triangle underneath
17:11 <wrtlprnft> nope
17:12 <wrtlprnft> i right-clicked them, no quid item and no remove either
17:12 <wrtlprnft> *quit
17:12 <madmax|pt> but, are we discussing the GUI or someone's decisions in putting something someway?
17:12 <madmax|pt> i think thats the point
17:12 <madmax|pt> its what the system can do, not how it is configured
17:13 <wrtlprnft> I'm saying my experience with macs isn't that great
17:15 <nemostultae> Hmm, yea, the admin took away your rights to modify the dock. That sucks.
17:15 <nemostultae> I just did it to myself
17:16 <wrtlprnft> Well, i can add my own icons
17:16 <wrtlprnft> and i think some of them that were already there i could remove
17:17 <wrtlprnft> I guess i wouldn't have those troubles if i owned a mac, but there's no way I'm paying 1k bucks for it
17:18 <wrtlprnft> for i have two machines that work totally fine
17:18 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know how long it will take opera to add some annoyance to OSX, too
17:18 <n54> it's the same in both windows and *nix: locking down users is a thing you _want_ to do as a sys-admin, you don't want to spend all your time fixing stuff they've done afterwards
17:19 <nemostultae> Yea, but modifying the dock??
17:19 <n54> I haven't used any apple products in over 10 years so I don't know about the dock ^^
17:19 <wrtlprnft> uh, it won't be the admin to fix it but the teacher
17:19 <madmax|pt> "My father and I are currently teaching a pair of 80 year olds (computer newbies) how to use a mac. However, they have a habit of dragging icons out the dock, and then of course Poof! its gone!"
17:20 <madmax|pt> thats useful
17:20 <n54> hehe madmax
17:20 <madmax|pt> thats a quote btw
17:20 <n54> and hello
17:20 <wrtlprnft> well. I'm not an 80 year old
17:20 <wrtlprnft> what about an option in the preferences somewhere?
17:20 <madmax|pt> well, that takes us to the "level of stupidity"
17:21 * n54 locks down wrtlprnft ^^
17:21 <wrtlprnft> you could enable that by default and whoever gets far enough to disable that option should be able to handle it
17:21 <n54> j/k of course :)
17:21 <madmax|pt> of course the admin wouldnt set specific settings for all users, must be general
17:21 <madmax|pt> and hi n54
17:21 <madmax|pt> :D
17:22 <wrtlprnft> well. If there's a setting "[X] I'm stupid and don't want to delete items in my dock" the admin could have it for all users by default
17:22 <wrtlprnft> and then the advanced user could say, "no, i'm not stupid, i want to delete them" and disable that setting
17:23 <madmax|pt> but stupid people can do the most incredible things
17:23 <n54> no way, that's a recepy for disaster
17:23 <wrtlprnft> you just have to hide it well enough
17:23 <madmax|pt> lol
17:23 <madmax|pt> i think thats not an option
17:23 <n54> you want to know a secret?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> lol no
17:23 <n54> ok
17:24 <wrtlprnft> hide means put it in the system settings where 80 year olds usually don't go
17:24 * n54 is gonna tell anyway
17:24 <madmax|pt> continuing quote: "PS: It still me how they managed to delete System Preferences, AFTER we (my dad and I) had used it previously !"
17:24 <wrtlprnft> there's more dangerous settings there. you could make your dock super big or super small
17:24 <n54> here it is: _everybody_ is stupid
17:24 <madmax|pt> @ http://macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36788
17:25 <madmax|pt> so, the "usually wont go" doesnt work
17:25 <madmax|pt> ...rest my case
17:25 <madmax|pt> lol
17:25 <madmax|pt> we cant "suppose" that people wont change this or that
17:25 <wrtlprnft> well, if they manage to delete the system settings they won't reach that item anymore, right?
17:26 <madmax|pt> lol
17:26 <wrtlprnft> well, you can't suppose people will destroy there most important data by putting their floppy on a big magnet
17:26 <wrtlprnft> *won't
17:26 <madmax|pt> "there's more dangerous settings there. you could make your dock super big or super small"
17:26 <madmax|pt> how is this dangerous?
17:27 <madmax|pt> if thats for a specific user
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, the 80 year old will have trouble using a super small dock
17:27 <wrtlprnft> or he could set the mouse super fast so he can't correct his setting
17:27 <madmax|pt> but thats not dangerous, it would be much more easily recoverable
17:27 <wrtlprnft> with help from outside
17:28 <wrtlprnft> the few items in the dock are recoverable as well
17:28 <madmax|pt> ...dont know if OSX can block dock size too
17:28 <madmax|pt> but harder
17:28 <wrtlprnft> it isn't blocked for me, even though i'm considered stupid
17:29 <madmax|pt> lol
17:29 <nemostultae> Alright, I've turned on the voice-over option and I have turned off my scren.
17:29 <madmax|pt> thats showoff
17:30 <wrtlprnft> :P
17:30 <madmax|pt> btw, whats the best irc program for OSX?
17:30 <nemostultae> it didn;t read the chat to me :(
17:30 <nemostultae> didn't*
17:30 <madmax|pt> lol
17:30 <wrtlprnft> irssi is the best if it exists for OSX
17:30 <madmax|pt> it does
17:30 <nemostultae> I use x-chat, it kinda sucks.
17:31 <madmax|pt> yep... thats what im using now...
17:33 * n54 uses gaim
17:34 <n54> but I'm not on osx :)
17:34 * wrtlprnft uses irssi
17:34 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma uses konversation
17:34 -!- nemostultae2 [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:36 <nemostultae2> colloquy has got better since I last used it.
17:37 <nemostultae2> I think I'll switch to it.
17:37 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["I quit."]
17:37 -!- nemostultae2 is now known as nemostultae
17:37 <wrtlprnft> test 123 wrtlprnft test
17:37 <wrtlprnft> grr
17:38 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
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17:39 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:41 <wrtlprnft> #echo test wrtlprnft test
17:41 <armabot> test wrtlprnft test
17:41 <wrtlprnft> yay
17:42 <wrtlprnft> #echo test asdfwrtasdf test
17:42 <armabot> test asdfwrtasdf test
17:42 <wrtlprnft> works :)
17:43 <madmax|pt> what are the bot commands?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> i just figured out a way to make irssi hilight every message that contains "wrt"
17:44 <wrtlprnft> and i needed armabot to say it since it doesn't hilight messages from me
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #list
17:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #later tell madmax|pt try this
17:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:44 <armabot> Random Fortune: The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub.
17:45 <n54> #roulette
17:45 <armabot> n54: Error: The command "roulette" is available in the Alias and Games plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "roulette".
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #g 1+2+3+the answer to life the universe and everything
17:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 1 + 2 + 3 + the answer to life the universe and everything = 48
17:45 <n54> wtf!
17:45 <n54> #help alias roulette
17:45 <armabot> n54: (alias roulette <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "ignoreme $*".
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #games roulette
17:45 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
17:45 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #insight
17:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The insidious oneness of current epistemologies will evaporate tomorrow's political climate.
17:45 <guru3> #games roulette
17:45 <armabot> guru3: *click*
17:45 <madmax|pt> lol
17:45 <n54> I'm sorry but I'm gonna take away that alias
17:45 <guru3> #games roulette n54
17:45 <armabot> guru3: (games roulette [spin]) -- Fires the revolver. If the bullet was in the chamber, you're dead. Tell me to spin the chambers and I will.
17:45 <guru3> aww
17:45 * guru3 wanted to try and shoot n54
17:46 <wrtlprnft> #armabot does madmax|pt like you?
17:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Of course.
17:46 <wrtlprnft> #eliza is that true?
17:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What do you think?
17:46 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
17:47 <wrtlprnft> #man fstab
17:47 <guru3> and good night
17:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: fstab - static information about the filesystems
17:47 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:47 <wrtlprnft> night
17:47 <wrtlprnft> just showing madmax|pt some commands
17:47 <n54> cya guru3
17:48 <madmax|pt> bye
17:48 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
17:48 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, that one's useful too:
17:48 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:48 <n54> #roulette
17:48 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
17:48 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
17:48 <wrtlprnft> #last --with wrt --from madmax|pt
17:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [17:07:24] <madmax|pt> wrtl thats probably someone's responsability, not OSX's GUI fault
17:48 <wrtlprnft> #seen deja_vu_
17:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: deja_vu_ was last seen in #armagetron 2 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <deja_vu_> *g*
17:48 <n54> and nobody makes aliases for real commands, it's just stupid
17:48 <deja_vu_> o.o
17:48 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
17:49 <n54> as in: with the same name
17:49 <wrtlprnft> that's 3 weeks
17:49 <deja_vu> #seen deja_vu
17:49 <armabot> deja_vu: deja_vu was last seen in #armagetron 2 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 34 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <deja_vu> ^^
17:49 <deja_vu> :(
17:49 <n54> deja_vu hasn't identified after armabot reboot
17:49 <deja_vu> i see^^
17:49 <deja_vu> o.o
17:49 <madmax|pt> deja vu? someone changed the matrix...
17:49 <wrtlprnft> #seen deja_vu
17:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: deja_vu was last seen in #armagetron 5 seconds ago: <deja_vu> o.o
17:49 <wrtlprnft> there you go
17:50 <deja_vu> =]
17:50 <wrtlprnft> just the name change that confuses it
17:50 <deja_vu> ok, guess i'll have to talk more :P
17:51 * Lucifer_arma is back.
17:51 <n54> wb
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> re
17:51 <wrtlprnft> uh, morning i guess
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> damn thing didn't build python!
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> hve to have python!
17:52 <n54> absolutely
17:52 <n54> and the damn thing is rocklinux I guess?
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah ;)
17:52 <n54> :)
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> when it was still early in the process, I disabled "keep building if a package fails", so it would stop if a package failed to build
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> because the early packages are things like binutils and gcc, and it can't build if they fail
17:53 <n54> mm
17:54 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:57 <n54> time to wake up for real *away*
17:58 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:58 <ghableska> hi
18:04 <wrtlprnft> hi
18:04 <madmax|pt> hi ghab
18:04 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft, madmax|pt
18:05 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=2871
18:05 <wrtlprnft> nice idea for a multiscreen background
18:06 <ghableska> who's is it?
18:06 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=48351#48351
18:06 <ghableska> ah :)
18:06 * wrtlprnft is off to arma
18:06 * ghableska waves good bye
18:07 <ghableska> grr
18:08 <ghableska> windows is strange
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> sweet, it built python with only a few dependencies needing to be satisfied :)
18:18 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
18:21 <ghableska> so...
18:22 <Self_Destructo> #notes
18:22 <armabot> Self_Destructo: Error: I have no notes waiting to be delivered.
18:22 <deja_vu> hey Self_Destructo :)
18:22 <Self_Destructo> hey there
18:23 <madmax|pt> bye all
18:23 <Self_Destructo> cya
18:23 <ghableska> bye
18:25 <McSpiddles> man
18:25 <McSpiddles> taking 2 big black lab pups to get shoots
18:25 <McSpiddles> where other small dogs are
18:25 <ghableska> heh
18:25 <McSpiddles> not a good idea :/
18:26 <McSpiddles> atleast i finally got them to figure out what sit means
18:26 <McSpiddles> now gonna teach them "stay"
18:26 <ghableska> congrats ;)
18:26 <McSpiddles> they're almost 6 months old
18:26 <McSpiddles> and huge for there age
18:27 <ghableska> how big?
18:27 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:27 <McSpiddles> they're taller than my knee
18:27 <McSpiddles> and have big paws
18:27 <ghableska> :O
18:27 <ghableska> nice
18:27 <ghableska> brb
18:27 <McSpiddles> yea
18:27 <McSpiddles> they stand up and they're taller than my waist
18:28 <McSpiddles> good dogs,just need to be trained,which i'm working on :D
18:28 <McSpiddles> full blooded balack labs
18:28 <McSpiddles> webbed feet and all
18:28 <McSpiddles> got them free :)
18:29 <McSpiddles> man it was friggin hot today
18:32 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
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18:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's still friggin hot today
18:35 <McSpiddles> not here anymore
18:35 <McSpiddles> it's 6:3-
18:35 <McSpiddles> 30
18:35 <McSpiddles> cooling off
18:35 <McSpiddles> it's sad really
18:35 <McSpiddles> i can go swimming and not get a sunburn
18:35 <McSpiddles> i sit in a car for 1 hour and my face gets sunburn
18:36 <McSpiddles> kinda stings
18:36 <McSpiddles> :/
18:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-067-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
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18:39 <ghableska> back
18:39 <wrtlprnft> then don't sit in a car for an hour
18:40 <McSpiddles> i had too
18:40 <McSpiddles> :/
18:40 <McSpiddles> either that or start walking and wait for them to drive by
18:41 <wrtlprnft> then put some underwear over your head as protection
18:41 <McSpiddles> lol
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #last --with under --from spidey
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [18:31:56] * spidey grabs wrtlprnft's underwear. pulls it over wrtlprnft's Head..... Now you look much better. The brown stain accentuates the shoes.
18:41 <McSpiddles> :p
18:42 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:43 <McSpiddles> the amityville horror
18:43 <McSpiddles> i'ma watch
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> roll down the window next time
19:04 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's total time exposed to the sun that matters, so if the hour wait in the car happened right after the hour of swimming, then 2 hours of sunlight caused the sunburn
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19:25 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
19:30 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
19:35 * wrtlprnft notes that it's a mixture of the total time, the amount of sun and filtering, and the time that you were not exposed that matters
19:41 * Lucifer_arma notes that that doesn't change his meaning :)
19:47 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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19:49 <Lucifer_arma> this build your own distribution is neat. I think I'm going to blow off the gentoo partition and instead make it a rock linux partition
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> if it's as neat a distribution as the build system is, that is. And then I'll make Dave's Stupid Linux Distribution :)
20:02 <n54> no Lux Nux, or LuLiNu? :|
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer Linux would be pretty cool, that's true :)
20:04 <n54> :)
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> with a highly patched lilo called lulo
20:05 <n54> hehe
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> mind you, I need to see the thing running first
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> hey GodTodd: Check out ROCK Linux, and their flagship Crystal Linux
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/
20:10 <Lucifer_arma> my carlinux distribution is built, now I'm building the boot disk distribution. The two combine together to make the installer iso image
20:19 <McSpiddles> gay
20:19 <McSpiddles> i was thinking about getting arma hosting,so i googled it and it mostly returned that old ass expliot :/
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> that was so heterosexual
20:21 <McSpiddles> ?
20:23 <McSpiddles> blah
20:23 <McSpiddles> anyone know a gameserver host that has a tron package?
20:23 <n54> no no no it's was so monogamous!
20:23 <McSpiddles> google's being gay :/
20:24 <McSpiddles> something besides distortgaming
20:27 <wrtlprnft> why not just take a vserver, now that we've established that you can run an arma server there w/o problems
20:28 <McSpiddles> ?
20:28 <McSpiddles> what's a vserver?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia vserver
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.15 seconds: Linux- VServer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer>; Virtual private server - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vps>; Virtualization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization>; Load balancing (computing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (2 more messages)
20:29 <McSpiddles> eh?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> it's a server that hosts multiple linux systems
20:30 <McSpiddles> yea,i know what a virtual server is
20:30 <wrtlprnft> well then
20:30 <nemostultae> [03:28am] McSpiddles: what's a vserver?
20:30 <wrtlprnft> get one and install arma on it using your uber1337 skills
20:31 <McSpiddles> he didn't say "virtual server"
20:31 <McSpiddles> lol @ uber1337
20:41 <n54> huh... I see I'm being listed as the author of streamripper at the rocklinux packages... that's just so wrong... Jon Clegg is the author and creator *thinks he'll have to do something about that"
20:49 -!- SD_away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> it was so pathetically homophobic
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> homophobia < dirt
20:52 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:52 <ghableska> hi
20:52 <n54> we're all homo's! homo homo sapiens or homo sapiens sapiens (I forget which) XD
20:52 <n54> hi
20:54 <ghableska> isn't it the latter?
20:54 <n54> I can't remember, it might very well be
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think people who are homophobic deserve any rights
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> being homophobic signs off on all your natural rights, and that makes you my bitch
20:55 <n54> lol
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I would support legislation to that effect
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'm pretty sick of intolerant attitudes
20:56 <ghableska> :)
20:56 <n54> yeah but I'm in no mood to treat them as "protectd species" either - they're just like anybody else, i.e. most are stupid (but nice)
20:58 <n54> and the word gay means colorful :)
20:58 <Lucifer_arma> right. :) Google's always gay, and that's why we love it so much. :)
20:58 <n54> :D
20:58 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:59 <n54> teh us version of queer eye for the straight guy is cool stuff, there's a norwegian copy but they lack the charisma of the americans
20:59 <n54> the*
21:01 -!- nemostul1ae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
21:02 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:04 <wrtlprnft> looks like nemosultae's new irc client tends to leave
21:05 <nemostul1ae> no, I'm on the edge of my wireless network
21:05 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:06 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> at least it doesn't spam us when it leaves
21:06 <wrtlprnft> ever tried gtk-engines-qt?
21:06 <wrtlprnft> that thingy rocks
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, couple of years ago when it was very new and didn't work well
21:07 <wrtlprnft> finally gvim and GIMP look like the rest of my programs
21:07 <wrtlprnft> it works fine for me now
21:07 <wrtlprnft> but it depends on your QT style i guess
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> a couple of years is a looong time in open source development
21:10 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:10 <wrtlprnft> so, the only thing left that looks totally awful is fontforge
21:11 <wrtlprnft> and something tells me that won't change anytime soon
21:12 <n54> :)
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, fontforge uses a custom widget set, iirc
21:14 <wrtlprnft> it depends on openmotif
21:14 <wrtlprnft> i think
21:19 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I built the wrong target for my bootdisk, no wonder it won't boot!
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> another hour or so to see if this one works, maybe longer.
21:21 * Lucifer_arma considers setting up a distributed build environment
21:21 <n54> floppies galore :) (I'm sure I would go through a lot of them)
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh. bootdisk is an iso image I'm going to run in qemu to test
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> when I get it all together, I'll put it on a CD to install to the computer I'm putting in my car
21:23 -!- nemostul1ae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> nice that I can use qemu to test, though.
21:24 <n54> I've never used qemu
21:25 <wrtlprnft> yeah, qemu is nice
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> emulator. :) I dont' think it runs windows, but it does fine with linuces, afaik
21:26 <wrtlprnft> it does
21:26 <wrtlprnft> actually, windows runs just fine
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> really?
21:26 <wrtlprnft> rarely use it, though. no idea if that win98 image i have is still intact
21:26 <wrtlprnft> i used it for testing pages in IE until i came over IEs4lin
21:26 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he really cares anymore. He doesn't want to work hard to support an OS that nobody ever tells him they're actually using.
21:27 <n54> haha I use windows :)
21:27 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't have 3D support, so it's pretty useless for compiling arma
21:27 * n54 tells Lucifer
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> see, here we've got people testing and working under windows. But for my alarm clock.... I've lost a lot of time making it run in windows, and I dont' even know if anybody's using it
21:27 <n54> but your alarm clock is python
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> if this rock-linux thing is so cool, I might just put together a liveCD for my alarm clock and direct windows users to use it.
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> yes, it's python, but playing music in python is a pain.
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> the libraries available are either unmaintained, have unmaintained python bindings, or don't work in windows.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to retool to use commandline apps instead, like moosic and mpd do, I think that'll be better.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> maybe someone will materialize with a config that works for windows, and then someone else will appear and maintain the windows build.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> in the meantime, i've got better things to do with my time :) I'd care if people actually told me I had a reason to care, but without knowing, I've got other things to do.
21:29 <wrtlprnft> http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima
21:30 <wrtlprnft> who the heck needs THAT?
21:30 <n54> yeah I wouldn't care about it if I were you
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> when it was a fairly new project, it was worth caring about. :) But it's not new anymore, there's over a thousand downloads of it.
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> latin wikipedia?
21:31 * n54 checks what the page is about
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> is it the Roman Catholic version of wikipedia?
21:31 <n54> oh a latin version, well latin speakers are a quite active group for their size
21:32 <n54> you can get donald duck in latin, winnie the pooh etc. etc.
21:32 <wrtlprnft> well, but is there anyone whose mother language is latin?
21:32 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A484.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:33 <n54> I'm sure someone has a mother who speaks latin ;P
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> if there were, they'd be called a latino
21:33 <wrtlprnft> no, but someone whose primary language is latin
21:33 <n54> nope
21:33 <wrtlprnft> the language he/she speaks best
21:33 <n54> you could say the same of esperanto wrtlprnft
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> esperanto is the language of tibet, isn't it?
21:34 <n54> nope :)
21:34 <wrtlprnft> well, there's people who actually speak it everyday and got used to it
21:35 <wrtlprnft> > Although no country has adopted the language officially, it has enjoyed continuous usage by a community estimated at between 100,000 and 2 million speakers and it is estimated that there are about a thousand native speakers.
21:35 <n54> same for latin I suppose
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto
21:35 <n54> yeah but that's just them bragging wrtlprnft :)
21:35 <wrtlprnft> > Although now widely considered an extinct language with very few fluent speakers and almost no native ones...
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin
21:35 <n54> and what are they calling native speakers? esperanto isn't native to anywhere
21:36 <n54> and on the other hand romanian is basically latin
21:36 <wrtlprnft> native = their mothers/fathers teached them that language first
21:36 <wrtlprnft> and then something else as "second language"
21:37 * n54 bets wrtlprnft speaks esperanto and hates latin ;p j/k
21:37 <wrtlprnft> not really. I'm bad at foreign languages, actually
21:38 <n54> doing fine with english :)
21:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I'm making lots of mistakes here :P
21:38 <n54> we all are, it's irc
21:38 <wrtlprnft> you should see my french
21:38 <n54> you should not hear mine ;)
21:39 <wrtlprnft> mon francais n'est pas tres bien
21:39 <wrtlprnft> bien? bon? well, you see...
21:39 * n54 isn't that good at correct norwegian any more either
21:39 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:39 <n54> :)
21:40 <wrtlprnft> I'll have trouble speaking german and writing german essays again once i get back home
21:40 <wrtlprnft> school's gonna be hard for a while, definitely
21:40 <n54> yeah I had a bit of that myself when returning to norway :)
21:41 <n54> I think in english at least hafl the time (when it's actually "word-thoughts")
21:41 <wrtlprnft> ok now, why does mplayer refuse to work now and doesn't compile anymore either?
21:42 <n54> blame Linus :D
21:42 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know that. sometimes i actually find myself wondering about a german translation of an english word
21:42 <n54> mm
21:42 <wrtlprnft> you know, i know the meaning, but i wouldn't know how to express that in german
21:42 <n54> yup I have that a lot
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> I always wonder about german translations of english words...
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:43 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:43 <n54> it's an effect of having become somewhat proficient in a language, proficient enough that one has subconsciously realized that translation is never accurate
21:43 <n54> hehe
21:43 <wrtlprnft> on the other hand, sometimes i find myself not knowing some really simple englisgh word
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> that happens to me a lot
21:44 <n54> :D
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> take for exmple, umm, what's the word?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> like cucumber
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I thought I knew it...
21:44 <n54> agurk!
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> cucumber?
21:44 <n54> /cucumber in norwegian)
21:44 <wrtlprnft> that's the kind of works you don't really learn in school
21:44 <n54> yeah
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> cucumber in norwegian sounds a lot like cucumber in my belly
21:45 <wrtlprnft> or you learn them, but forget them instantly because you're not using them in class
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, to really learn a language, you have to live in a culture that speaks it
21:45 <n54> agurk? how so?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> cucumber == Gurke in german
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> I guess these days you can just participate in said culture over the internet, that's probably enough--to a point
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> you still don't learn all the little nuances of stopping at the convenience store or whatever
21:45 <n54> depends on who you're around imo
21:46 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's more like eating at subway :D
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, there's a reason Americans learn Spanish and retain it, while the european languages they learn they forget quickly
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, man, I took 3 years of French, I could read novels when I was done.
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> now I barely remember how to say hi.
21:46 <wrtlprnft> go to quebec
21:46 <wrtlprnft> beurks
21:46 * Lucifer_arma notes that he lives in Texas...
21:46 <n54> fernch... arrrgh it's my nemesis -- five years and I can barely speak it
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> I never had a good accent, that's for sure. :) But that's one of the things you have to be in the culture to learn properly, teachers can only take you so far.
21:47 <wrtlprnft> c'est tres malheureux
21:47 * wrtlprnft looked up malheureux :D
21:47 <n54> it's very *something bad*
21:47 <n54> bad timing?
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot most of the verb tenses, even. I could pick it back up fairly quickly, I'm sure, and I remembered enough to read the manual to the onboard pascal compiler for my clie
21:47 <wrtlprnft> mal = bad; heureux = lucky
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> but reading and generating communication are different things :)
21:48 <n54> oh unfortunate
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yep
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> so, that's very unlucky?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yeah, more like unfortunate
21:48 <wrtlprnft> i think
21:48 <n54> me too :D
21:48 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.165.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yay for passe compose, passe simple etc
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> je ne parle pas francais tres bien parce que je suis un americain idiote
21:49 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:49 <n54> meh grammar, it was invented by assholes :P
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> I actually said that to my french teacher during the final interview for French II. :) She almost fell on the floor, heh.
21:49 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't it be idiote americain?
21:50 <n54> probably wrtlprnft :)
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> um, sure.
21:50 <wrtlprnft> the french like their adjectives behind the nouns
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> let's just assume I said it right 13 years ago, ok? :)
21:50 <wrtlprnft> with a few examples
21:50 <n54> :)
21:50 <wrtlprnft> *exeptions
21:50 <n54> exceptions
21:50 <wrtlprnft> in some cases the word means something different in front of it than behind
21:50 <wrtlprnft> yes, whatever :D
21:51 * n54 isn't really a spelling & grammar nazi
21:51 <wrtlprnft> toldya my english is bad
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> Je n'aime pas etudier le grammar
21:51 <wrtlprnft> grammaire?
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> um.... sure :)
21:51 <wrtlprnft> yay, i actually remember something from a year ago
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> hey, we need a french/english dictionary in arma
21:51 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:51 <wrtlprnft> dict.leo.org
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you can translate it from english to german and then german to french
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> uh, that's not a french/english dictionary in arma :)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know, but that thing is useful
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> the point is that I've been trying to speak french to french speakers in an attempt to recover my french and maybe learn a bit more
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, if you speak german and one of english/french/spanish that is
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> ah. I don't speak german, and I don't remember enough french vocabulary to even sanity check what it gives me
21:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O emerge -e mplayer will take days, it seems
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> I think I should email my old editor at newsforge and see if he wants an article on rock-linux
21:55 <wrtlprnft> wanna earn 100 bucks?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> what annoys me about linux.com and newsforge is that their newsfeeds crosslink sometimes
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, let's just say I was thinking of paying for my car computer by resurrecting my old freelance writing work and writing about it
21:55 <wrtlprnft> so you get the same thing twice, just one says "read more at (newsforge|linux.com)"
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> also, I think good articles on linux distributions are worth $250+
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully I won't have to print and sign a new contract for it
21:56 <wrtlprnft> What desktop OS do you use every day? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $100.
21:56 <wrtlprnft> that's from newsforge
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.......
21:57 <wrtlprnft> but your OS isn't on the list yet
21:57 <wrtlprnft> > In recent weeks, we've covered SimplyMEPIS, Xandros, Mac OS X, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, White Box Enterprise Linux, Mandriva PowerPack 2006, Slackware, SUSE, GRML, Kanotix, Gentoo, VectorLinux, CentOS, Damn Small Linux, Frugalware, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, and Arch Linux.
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's not exactly a "do freelance writing for us", it's more like "write something and maybe we'll pay you"
21:57 <wrtlprnft> better be fast or I'll try and write it :P
21:57 <wrtlprnft> they'll pay you if they publish it
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, dude. teach your grandma to suck eggs. A couple of years ago I was a freelance writer, and newsforge was one of my clients.
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> lwn too, for that matter
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> but lwn doesn't pay as well as newsforge
21:58 <wrtlprnft> heh, i was just kidding
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> and that $100 is for commentary, not quite the article i'd be selling
21:59 <n54> go ahead and write it Luci, and tell us if/when it gets accepted/published
21:59 <wrtlprnft> I'll get the it in the newsfeed :D
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm..... first I have to dig up Lee's email address. Then I have to query him and see if he's interested. If he says yes, I write it. If he says no, I dig up the lwn guy's email address and try again.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> if he says no, or maybe even before lwn, I'd query, ummm, damn. I forgot who it is, one of the guys on the Hydrogen list writes for them.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> It's not linux.com....
22:01 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
22:01 * Lucifer_arma hates forgetting things like that.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> they pay more than newsforge, and they have a print edition
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> montly magazine...
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> (the reason they didn't take any of my work ws because they had someone doing similar work already :( )
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I'll query Lee before I go to bed.
22:02 <wrtlprnft> that's what they tell you ;) jk
22:06 <n54> perhaps do a special on the carbox too when done (as a seperate thing - Make might be intereted in something like that)
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the point. Start with an article on rock linux targetted for organizations that want a custom linux,
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> then as I do stuff with the carbox I can see if there are articles there to be written and write as I go.
22:07 <n54> if I ever get good at a few things I'm planning to figure out I might do something similiar
22:08 <n54> (not computerrelated)
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'll tell you what, if you can write 3-4 articles a week, the going rate is $100-$500 for freelancers
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> you can make $300-$2000/week, if you can keep that pace
22:08 <n54> yeah but I wouldn't be anywhere close to that in my present condition
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> well, turn it around. If you can write 1 high quality article a week, you can still break $1000/month
22:09 <n54> I've heard the trick is to write one article and customize it for different buyers :) (technical, non-technical etc.)
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's a good trick, but you have to make the contacts first. :)
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't find enough overlap, and the folks that I queried otherwise weren't interested in what I had to say
22:10 <n54> yeah but you're talking to a guy who barely manages to wash his clothes & shop food XD
22:10 <n54> yeah
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> but he's always here? :)
22:10 <n54> well what else am I supposed to do? :D
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> you could be writing!
22:11 <n54> it would exhaust me :)
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> so could I, for that matter, heh.
22:11 <n54> (not kidding)
22:11 <n54> :)
22:11 * n54 actually is writing, but nothing instantly sellable
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm... don't have a solution for that. but if you could do an article in 3 sessions a week, you only exhaust yourself 3 times
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you don't write and then sell. You query first, and if they say go, then you write.
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's not like your first novel, where you have to write it first and then sell it.
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> and if they like what you wrote after they said go, then they buy. If not, they send it back, tell you what's wrong, and you fix it and send it back.
22:13 <n54> sorry my main priority is getting the damned welfare applications filled so i can stop leeching off my family and then try to get well somehow
22:13 <n54> until then time just slips away :)
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know. :)
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> writing is just fairly easy work, and if you've got your socialist government keeping you up, you might be able to pursue it at your leisure
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> who knows? You might get well and find yourself a rich and famous writer. :)
22:14 <n54> hehe doubt it :)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> then you can spend your well-years writing about your sick-years. People eat up that stuff.
22:14 <n54> I don't think I could write about it, it's beyond words
22:15 <n54> and I don't much like "social pornography" :)
22:15 * wrtlprnft could be sleeping right now instead of watching plans on how to get rich
22:15 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> ack. I'm not talking about laying out personal shit, I'm talking about writing shit that sells. It only has to be inspired by real experiences, you fill in the details :)
22:15 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:15 <n54> hehe wrtlprnft :D
22:15 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> haha, 'night wrtlprnft
22:15 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> this is like the 10th time I've built gcc today
22:16 <n54> :O
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> before this I hadn't even built gcc more than 4 times total
22:16 <n54> I've never done it
22:17 <n54> but I guess practice makes perfect :)
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> I've done it trying to build a cross-compiler, and a couple of minor things like that
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> anjori's coming
22:18 <n54> into the channel?
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> beats me
22:18 <n54> ??
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh. there's a few people that I always have advance warning of their arrival because I have their IM addresses. :)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> surely you've seen it?
22:19 <n54> ah ok
22:19 <n54> yeah but I don't assume from it :)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke, then I should try to get real work done tonight
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> work!?
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> what's that!?
22:20 <n54> it's lots of fun if done right, that's what it is :)
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> hah
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> I know
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> I work at Carl's Jr.
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> (I'm still in high school)
22:21 <n54> ok :)
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> but outside of that
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> I program music
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> mostly terrorcore and speedcore
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> sometimes I do something meaningful
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> but usually it's just weird and stupid
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> anyways
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> off to play some games
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> bbiab
22:22 <n54> cya
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> since when does a new genre of music mean combining some word and "core"?
22:28 <n54> hmm not sure it's that new, branches/offspring from hardcore afaik
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not that new, it's just irritating when I go to look for metal and all the bands I've always listened to are classified as thrashcore, grindcore, speedcore, whatevercore
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> and I have to navigate that psycho hierarchy just to find the old stuff
22:29 <n54> oh I wasn't aware of that and yes that absolutely sucks
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> can I get an oldcore?
22:30 <n54> encore! lol
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:30 <n54> :)
22:30 * Lucifer_arma thinks he'll start describing his own music as "encore thrash metal"
22:30 <n54> hehe
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> "So Luci, what kind of music do you want in arma?"
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> "Encore"
22:31 <n54> :)
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> make made make again.
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> see, in lfs you first have to build the toolchain statically linked against your host system's glibc
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> then you use the statically linked binaries to build the toolchain again, including glibc, dynamically linking against the glibc you just built.
22:34 <n54> and in rock?
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> then you chroot to build the rest
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> rock does it, too, but it uses shell scripts to do all the work.
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> so, it's like this
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> Gentoo gives you a stage tarball that already has the first bootstrap done, so you just start emerging packages essentially
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> lfs is Gentoo without the stage tarball and without portage
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> rock is automated lfs with portage (only it's not portage, it's their own package system)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and rock generates iso images of binary distributions, so you can then install the system you just built from source on any number of machines
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to me that rock shouldn't be terribly hard to hack to use rpm or deb or some other packager
22:37 <n54> probably not
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> but their package system is more like lfs, you get the packages directly from the projects, instead of Gentoo which has to keep a copy of the source that goes with the ebuild that's in portage
22:38 <n54> yes I saw that at the rock package thingy for streamripper
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> so if you want to try a new version, you can easily change it in your own checkout
22:38 <n54> yup
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> it's supposed to automatically pick up autotool packages, so making an arma package shouldn't be terribly difficult
22:39 <n54> mm
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22:45 <Lucifer_arma> who the hell is susanne klaus?
22:46 <n54> no idea
22:46 <n54> whee did the name pop up?
22:46 <n54> where*
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I got it. It's the maintainer of the rock package generated by the script
22:47 <n54> aah it was hannes*something* for sr
22:48 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:48 <n54> but I get why you were confused about it :)
22:51 <GodTodd> blergle
22:51 <n54> hi GodTodd :) blerge to you too ;)
22:51 <GodTodd> 'ello
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> there, I just made rock packages for armagetronad and armagetronad-dedicated
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> now, how do I test them? heh
22:53 <GodTodd> very carefully? ;)
22:53 * Lucifer_arma needs to get Crystal Rock installed on his other partition
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> I might have found me a new distribution....
22:53 <[NP]Tangent> what is Crystal Rock?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> ummm....
22:54 <GodTodd> think it'd work well for a relative n00b? or should i stick with kubuntu?
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> check out rock linux. It's a distribution builder, and Crystal Rock is like the flagship distribution made with it
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> oh
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> well
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I don't know, I've only been building distributions, I don't actually know what the thing looks like :)
22:54 <GodTodd> lol fair enough :)
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> I'm too much of a linux newbie for exploring a distro builder
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> besides
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> I'm happy with my Ubuntu
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> :)
22:55 <GodTodd> i'll have to take a chance on it...i'm a pretty good risk taker most of the time :)
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> building gcc again. Should be chrooting soon to finish up the bootdisk config
22:56 <GodTodd> never used to be....but 2.5 yrs fighting in court changes your perspective on such things a bit ;)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, in all honesty, if this rock linux thing is so badass, I'm going to build Dave's Stupid Linux Distribution with it once and for all, and end all my distro problems
22:56 <GodTodd> cool
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> hm
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> I should build an ideal distro some time
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> would have lots of multimedia stuff
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> and Armagetron and bzflag
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> because all I ever do
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> is play armagetron, play bzflag, and make music with whatever's handy
22:57 <GodTodd> i should build the ultimate windows distribution....
22:57 <GodTodd> oh wait...they already did.....fdisk
22:57 <GodTodd> :D
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> hahaha
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> beat me to it
22:57 <GodTodd> ;)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> it would be neat if rock let you put in your own kernel
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> hah
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> so it could be used to build bsd/hurd
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> yeah
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> that would be cool
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> lemme google this rock thing
22:58 <GodTodd> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> rocklinux.org?
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> ah
22:59 <GodTodd> faster that way :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/
22:59 <GodTodd> think i'ma look into learning python too
22:59 <GodTodd> man i need to get back into school
22:59 <GodTodd> :/
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> learn esperanto
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> in 4 months, it'll be the only language allowed here
23:00 <n54> lol
23:00 <GodTodd> i think rimmer had a better chance of learning that....i suck at spoken languages anymore
23:00 <GodTodd> ;)
23:00 <[NP]Tangent> I do some PHP
23:00 <[NP]Tangent> kinda-sorta started doing some C
23:01 <GodTodd> i was warned against wasting my time on c or c++
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I wasn't
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I don't know anyone else who does anything with computers
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> in person, at least
23:02 <GodTodd> well...i guess it depends on how much programming experience you have
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I mean
23:02 <GodTodd> my wife programs for Halliburton
23:03 <GodTodd> so she's my "in" into the workplace world of computers
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> some languages are different, but they have some very big similarities
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> so you don't have to COMPLETELY relearn a structure for something
23:03 <GodTodd> right...c and c++ (mostly the latter) are still good for theory and general programming logic
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> isn't C# what we're all using now?
23:04 <GodTodd> depends on the company....but, yeah the
23:04 <n54> c is still big
23:04 <GodTodd> that's what my wife uses
23:04 <GodTodd> c# that is
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> well
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> all I know right now
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> is that I need to rewrite my irc bot
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> it was a mIRC-powered bot
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> now I'm on linux
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> and I'm wine-free
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> so I'll need something different.
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> and since I know a fair bit of php
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> might as well do that, right?
23:06 <n54> sure, it's not like it's going to be the final language you learn any which way
23:06 <GodTodd> right
23:07 <GodTodd> man....texas really really doesn't want to give resident rates :/
23:08 <n54> as in for schooling etc.?
23:08 <GodTodd> yep
23:09 <n54> hmm I would have thought such stuff followed along with taxes
23:09 <GodTodd> heh...well... texas doesn't have a state income tax
23:10 <n54> oh, ok, well that's good at least :)
23:10 <n54> but yeah that explains it :)
23:10 <GodTodd> :)
23:10 <GodTodd> so i had to dig up my comcast paperwork today so that i can show them a signed work order when i had the cable installed in april of 05
23:11 <GodTodd> that should prove i've been here a year
23:11 <GodTodd> :)
23:11 <n54> yup let's hope so :)
23:11 <GodTodd> otherwise i'd have to go through the same hoops they put luci through
23:11 <GodTodd> and i don't want that :/
23:11 <n54> yeah it's sounds like a drag
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:14 <n54> you two are childhood friends or something like that? lived in the same place
23:14 <GodTodd> yeah...known him since junior high
23:14 <n54> cool :)
23:14 <GodTodd> yep :)
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> long time, yeah
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, um, it's basically like this:
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> there's a law (which I actually read), that has very general terms on how to establish residency
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> then there's a board that enforces that law, I think they're appointed--not elected. That board sets the rules on what documentation is required.
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> the documentation that's required is fairly simple. Got a texas driver's license? You're done. ID card, too, afaik.
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> no license? Why not? You're supposed to have it changed over within 30 days! Or it's a big fine...
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> it degenerates from there. That's a reasonable place for it to degenerate from. The main thing is, get them to write down what documents they consider acceptable on some sort of paper that says clearly who wrote it.
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> that way, you can show it to their residence expert. "Look, this is what you guys told me." It might not help, but it'll at least let you get yours on the people who lied to you.
23:47 <GodTodd> heh...i HAVE the TXDL
23:47 <GodTodd> not good enough
23:48 <GodTodd> you'd think that they could...oh i don't know....like hook up with the DMV to get an official date of issuance....but then what would be the challenge? ;)
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> no kidding. Isn't it printed on the card?
23:50 <GodTodd> ummm...dunno...lemmee check
23:50 <GodTodd> nope...just expiration
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> it's not printed on my id card
23:50 * Lucifer_arma is still waiting for his license card in the mail
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> they didn't take the license by itself? So they want license + some other document?
23:51 <GodTodd> right
23:51 <GodTodd> they have a copy of me license
23:51 <GodTodd> then they wanted my bank statements for the last 12 months
23:51 <GodTodd> which is fine except that our bank charges 2$ a page for those
23:51 <GodTodd> that's some serious cash
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> $24: serious cash
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> they're not one-page statements, are they?
23:52 <GodTodd> nope
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> average 3 pages, then?
23:52 <GodTodd> i'd figure 2-5 on an average month
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3*2*12
23:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3 * 2 * 12 = 72
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g 4*2*12
23:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 4 * 2 * 12 = 96
23:52 <GodTodd> 72$ is more than free ;)
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> $1 is more than free
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> $0.01 > free
23:52 <GodTodd> and i called today and they said that any bill in my name with a TX address will work
23:53 <GodTodd> so i'ma use my comcast stuff
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> they wouldn't take that, for me
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, they wanted that and some other stuff
23:53 <GodTodd> including the work order i signed 4/10/05
23:53 <GodTodd> couldn't sign it if i weren't here
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> so take it in and see what they say. :) If you gave a texas license, they probably won't fuck you, I imagine.
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> A texas license would have helped me a ton.
23:53 <GodTodd> i hope not
23:54 <GodTodd> that's my last step...i'm conditionally admitted until they get my transcripts which were mailed today
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> you already called alamo for those?
23:54 <GodTodd> and, AND, i don't have to take any english :D
23:54 <GodTodd> nah...alamo is moot
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> man, when I called, the lady I talked to was just as sweet as could be. I'll bet she had my transcripts in the mail the next day.
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right, you need from the last college you attended, fuck high school now
23:54 <GodTodd> yep
23:55 <GodTodd> :D
23:55 <GodTodd> fuck high school then heh
23:55 <GodTodd> not just now
23:55 <GodTodd> :)
23:55 <GodTodd> yeah...and my last college sends them for free and allows online ordering....so i did that about this time last night
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat
23:56 <GodTodd> i thought so
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> acc might allow online ordering, but there's a transcript request form in admissions
23:56 <GodTodd> i can also track them since i have like lifetime webadvisor access
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> hey, my idiot brother went to school on a deal where he could get all his F's dismissed, NMSUA
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> he finished this semester with a 3.7!?!
23:57 <GodTodd> i think i'm gonna have to take more math tho before calc I
23:57 <GodTodd> mike did?
23:57 <GodTodd> ?!?!
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah!
23:57 <GodTodd> holy shit batman
23:57 * Lucifer_arma was shocked
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, when he went, he got good grades. His problem was not going and not dropping and getting F's instead
23:58 <GodTodd> the kid make him grow up or what?
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> so after the F's were dismissed and he retook those classes....
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, he is married now, and the girl already had two kids, and they've had another, so they're a 3-kid family too
23:58 <GodTodd> maybe that's what he needed
23:59 <GodTodd> what's he in school for?
Log from 2006-05-24:
--- Day changed Wed May 24 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> beats me. I'm still shocked he got out so good. I know he has a 4.0 in him, but I didn't think he'd finish his first semester after amnesty with such a high one.
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> then again, I don't really know what his record was.
00:00 <GodTodd> true
00:01 * Lucifer_arma tells n54 that we're talking about my *older* brother
00:01 <GodTodd> what all math is in between college algebra and calc I?
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> at acc, there's trig and precalc
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> that's it
00:01 <GodTodd> probably the same at ccccd
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> trig is what you'd expect, precalc is functions, nothing but functions.
00:01 <GodTodd> cuz i have documented proof of as high as college algebra
00:02 * GodTodd does the 'don't gotta take no tests' dance.
00:02 <GodTodd> heh
00:02 <GodTodd> thing is....i took precal in high school
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> I have documented proof of precal
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> but that was 12 years ago
00:02 <GodTodd> i know....i was in your class :P
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> ? no you weren't
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?
00:03 <GodTodd> well...the high school one
00:03 <GodTodd> so like 13 years
00:03 * Lucifer_arma doesn't remember you being there
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, who was the teacher? :)
00:03 <GodTodd> i was up front...close to mr. kellar
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> ah. Then maybe you were and I just don't remember, there wouldn't have been a lot of interaction
00:04 <GodTodd> nope
00:04 * Lucifer_arma sat in the back and flirted with Clay's girlfriend
00:04 <GodTodd> you sat in the 'mathmatician shrine' in the back
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> eh? had to be a shrine of 1, Kris was always asking me for help
00:04 <GodTodd> nah...the posters he had on the wall
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'd go into the library in the morning and she'd ask me to teach her what we covered the day before, heh
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I don't remember posters
00:05 <GodTodd> i think that was the class where nick hockman pissed him off with the universal remote
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> weird, I was in that class for 2 years, but I only remember his desk and the overhead
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> *classroom
00:05 <GodTodd> lol
00:05 <GodTodd> that's focus, my friend :)
00:05 <GodTodd> heh
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I tell people now that I'm the Greatest Math Student There Ever Was
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I wrote a paper about Kellar for my comp I class
00:06 <GodTodd> kellar rocked
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> man, he was awesome
00:06 <GodTodd> him and mr martin were probably the two best they had
00:06 <GodTodd> i don't think kellar is there anymore
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> the guy I'm studying with right now is Really Good, but he's not the Greatest Math Teacher That Ever Lived
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> he ws still in that house in La Luz last summer
00:07 <GodTodd> hmmm...i'll have to recheck my sister's yearbook....i don't think he's at the HS anymore
00:07 <GodTodd> i know martin went to NMSU
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> when I was taking my calc final, I actually thought "I hope I don't blow this, Kellar will be pissed"
00:07 <GodTodd> sounds right :)
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> Martin got shit-canned for dropping acid with his daughter
00:08 <GodTodd> i think they were looking for good reason to fire him
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> crazy fuck
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, it's bad PR to have a short, curly-haired teacher that can beat ass on the whole football team
00:08 <GodTodd> lol true
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> haha. he was awesome too :)
00:08 <GodTodd> i remember that time he was late because he was kicking two dudes' asses
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I ran into Terry Geiger back when I was at Ramona's, she did what she said she'd do, she was in the army.
00:09 <GodTodd> yeah...that's what i heard
00:09 <GodTodd> didn't she fall out of her desk once? i seem to remember that
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> probably. She was still finishing up her stoner/gang-banging days, I think.
00:09 <GodTodd> i remember the weirdest shit tho
00:09 <GodTodd> yeah
00:10 <n54> lol sounds like your parts of the woods aint nothin but loons lol XD j/k
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> I ran into her a few days before graduation, she thanked me for believing in her!?! Said I was the only one who supported her giving up all that crazy shit and going straight.
00:10 * n54 is back now
00:10 <GodTodd> sometimes i check out reunion.com just to see how many losers still live there ;)
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:10 <GodTodd> there's a lot of them
00:11 <GodTodd> heh
00:11 <n54> only teasing :) sounds great to me :)
00:11 <GodTodd> nah...it's a shithole
00:11 <GodTodd> :)
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, one of my strongest memories of high school is Terry in that typing class coming in one day and saying "I'm gonna quit this shit, Dave, you're going to help me"
00:11 <GodTodd> cool :)
00:11 * Lucifer_arma has a very short list of people he'd like to see from high school, she's on it. :)
00:12 <GodTodd> yeah...she was cool
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> she had a handful, heh
00:12 <n54> the one that joined the army?
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
00:12 <GodTodd> any idea where she's stationed?
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> when I met her she was all decked out in leather and chains and stuff, running around with one of the el paso gangs
00:13 <Lucifer_arma> no idea where she's at. She was at Fort Bliss when I ran into her at Ramona's, but that was 10 years ago
00:13 <GodTodd> ahhh
00:13 <GodTodd> holy shit....i'ma be in alamo this time next week :/
00:13 <Lucifer_arma> damn
00:13 <GodTodd> i know
00:14 * Lucifer_arma managed to avoid going down there this summer
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I might wind up in one of those companies competing for the X-cup
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> in which case I'll be going back to alamo once a year :/
00:14 <GodTodd> i would have avoided it, 'cept for the new kid :/
00:14 <GodTodd> lol
00:14 * GodTodd points and laughs.
00:14 <GodTodd> :)
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> the funny thing is, I think that would be awesome. :)
00:15 <GodTodd> it would
00:15 <n54> :)
00:15 <GodTodd> tommy DID like the space hall
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> I can throw my middle finger up at that stinking town and win a prize or two and say "Nope, you disowned me, don't dare take credit for this, I'm not a hometown boy"
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> everyone likes that! :) It's an awesome place
00:15 <GodTodd> it is
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter comes up to me every couple of months and throws an attitude because I haven't taken her back there.
00:16 <GodTodd> i'm sure i'll have to hit it next week
00:16 <GodTodd> sick of white sands still tho
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. :)
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> white sands is a lot different with kids. We had a great time out there.
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> I ran down a dune, jumped and landed, and buried my legs, right?
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> Then I started yelling "Oh shit, I'm trapped, help, help!"
00:16 <GodTodd> well...i did too...'cept i got tired ;)
00:16 <GodTodd> lol
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> and my kids, all 3 of them, came running over to dig me out :)
00:17 <n54> :)
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> then they grabbed my arms and pulled, it was awesome
00:17 <GodTodd> tommy's favorite part was going down on a snow disk
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> my kids never got the thing to work
00:18 <GodTodd> there is definitely a trick
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> I managed to get it going, then grabbed my youngest and the thing stopped, we were too heavy
00:18 <GodTodd> tommy had it going pretty well
00:18 <GodTodd> i check out the mall whenever i'm there
00:18 <GodTodd> haha
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> ack. the discs are cool, but my kids were perfectly happy to just roll down the hard way
00:19 <GodTodd> yeah...he liked that too
00:19 <GodTodd> and throwing sand clods
00:19 <GodTodd> :D
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> we refused to go to the mall, even when my kids asked us to. There are some things I just won't do.
00:20 <GodTodd> heh...just walk in....say 'there's KMart' then look at the other end 'there's JCPenney, there's nothing in between'....then you're done :)
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:20 <GodTodd> hell...they don't even have the arcade anymore
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> we took them to Washington Park, they loved that place
00:21 <GodTodd> yah...washington park is nice
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> they were enchanted with the little theater thing
00:21 <GodTodd> i do go to hastings each time too....they have some cheap computer books sometimes
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> I don't blame them, I've always liked that place
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> I drove by the high school and said "Look, I went to school there"
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> we were headed somewheres else, though.
00:22 <GodTodd> they'd probably like riding the train in alameda park
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> they did. :)
00:22 <GodTodd> tommy loved that
00:22 <GodTodd> :)
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> took all three of them. :)
00:22 <GodTodd> yeah...i've been in the high school....my mom works there
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> my dad tried to talk me out of it, said they'd hate it. Grrrrr.
00:22 <GodTodd> she had to pick something up
00:22 <GodTodd> lol
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> she does? what does she do there?
00:23 <GodTodd> the's an aide in the special ed dept.
00:23 <GodTodd> she's
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> with aces, or the kids on the other end?
00:23 <GodTodd> they don't pay her dick
00:23 <GodTodd> the other end
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> they don't have dick!
00:24 <GodTodd> true true
00:24 <GodTodd> you know...their economy sucks there because those of us with a chance to really do something won't ever go back ;)
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> and that school is like the whole town, afaic. kinda sad, but what the hell? It's just a little town full of underworked underpaid depressed people.
00:24 <GodTodd> yep
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> they won't change. that town hasn't changed a bit since I left, except maybe gotten a little more run down
00:25 <GodTodd> a little?
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> Remember New Horizons? the computer store?
00:25 <GodTodd> yep
00:25 <GodTodd> hell...that's where my dad bought the Kaypro :)
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> I say "little" because I don't know how much of it is just by comparison, my subjective point of view is different now
00:25 <GodTodd> true
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, new horizons. they went out of business, remember? Sure, the guy wasn't all too honest...
00:26 <GodTodd> yep
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> but 30k people should support a computer store. there are other towns that are just as small if not smaller than support 1 or more computer stores
00:26 <GodTodd> yep
00:26 <GodTodd> yucca news stand is gone too
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> they just won't change. That's all there is to it.
00:26 <GodTodd> i noticed that last time
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet that place is more or less identical to what it was 50 years ago
00:27 <GodTodd> probably
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> nothing but corruption at all levels of government, and people that just want to bitch and moan
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> and retirees that think small towns are charming
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> you notice the retirees never leave their little neighborhoods off scenic, though
00:28 <GodTodd> sad thing is...if any of us 'kids' ever get well known...they'll try to ride our coattails
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> hell, that damn bypass. have you seen it?
00:28 <GodTodd> yes
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> they were arguing about it when we were there
00:28 <GodTodd> it's pointless
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> I first heard about it in 7-8 grade or so, they were still arguing about it when we graduated
00:28 <GodTodd> yep
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> took 'em what, 7-8 years still to get it started?
00:28 <GodTodd> i mean...how much traffic can white sands have?
00:28 <GodTodd> ;)
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> then the first two companies that worked on it went bankrupt, or something like that. Grafted
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> there's a lot of shipping that goes down white sands
00:29 <GodTodd> yeah...but....still....
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> stuff leaves El Paso (where it arrived by train) on trucks and goes through alamogordo before it touches the rest of New Mexico, except cruces and silver city, deming
00:30 <GodTodd> i think there are better ways they could have spent that money
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> I don't. that lifts the bottleneck on shipping that alamogordo was
00:31 <GodTodd> true
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> I think it'll bring in more money than otherwise
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> the thing is, the people running the businesses are just going to pocket it and fraud their taxes
00:31 <GodTodd> yep
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> so the city won't see much, if anything from it
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> and nobody will think there's a problem there. "It ws fine for my parents, it's fine for me"
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> fuck that.
00:31 <GodTodd> that's ok...the city is run by people that are embezzling the money from their own businesses anyway
00:31 * Lucifer_arma mumbles about small town inbreds
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> at least I don't have the indignity of being a native of that place. :)
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> just passing through, that's all I was
00:32 <GodTodd> yeah...there was NO way in HELL my kids were going to be raised there
00:32 <GodTodd> same here
00:32 <GodTodd> i got there at 8 :)
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> I got there at 11 :)
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> left at 18, and my parents wondered why I wouldn't stay and go to NMSUA
00:33 <GodTodd> that would have been right about the time we met
00:33 <GodTodd> i left at 19
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> seventh grade, it was my first year. we moved in the summer between 6 and 7
00:33 <GodTodd> said 'fuck it' and moved to AZ
00:33 <GodTodd> ahhhh
00:33 <GodTodd> k
00:33 <GodTodd> i remember it was when bon jovi was big
00:33 <GodTodd> heh
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:33 <n54> lol
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> Shot through the heart, and you're to blame. You give looove, a bad name!
00:34 * Lucifer_arma loves those old Bon Jovi songs
00:34 <n54> oh please no Lucifer lol
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> and I don't give a fuck what you inbred rednecks think about it!
00:34 <n54> I guess that would be me ^^
00:34 <GodTodd> heh...iirc you were on a 'livin' on a prayer' jag when i met you
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> probably. :)
00:34 <GodTodd> heh...i have bon jovi on my rio
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> I was all into them back then
00:34 <GodTodd> :)
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> them and billy joel
00:35 <GodTodd> hey...billy rocks
00:35 <n54> yeah he's not bad
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he does alright :)
00:35 <GodTodd> he's a old fucker now....but he still rocks :)
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> when I was in seattle, Amy (Spot's ex, remember her?) and I had a version of For the Longest time worked up
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> she sang melody, I sang harmony/bass
00:36 <GodTodd> cool :)
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> since we only sang it in the car, we didn't work out any snapping/clapping for percussion
00:36 <GodTodd> course....i never would have gotten into king diamond if it hadn't been for you....
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> probably would have if they hadn't turned out to be such asshats
00:36 * GodTodd bows.
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> KING DIAMOND FUCKING RULES!
00:37 <GodTodd> shit yeah
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> he's good arma music, too :)
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> n54 doesn't like him, he hates Danes
00:37 <GodTodd> i got my king diamond cd's back last year :D :D
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> haha. I went to opennap for them. :)
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> ripped Don's collection, too. You know, while I was there and all...
00:37 <GodTodd> i got them offa bittorrent too
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, ironically, a lot of my current mp3 collection is Don's collection, ripped
00:38 <GodTodd> heh
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh. i told you Don married Amy, right?
00:38 <GodTodd> yeah
00:38 <n54> hehe I don't hate danes but... :)
00:38 * GodTodd eyes n54. You better not. :)
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> n54: you like King Diamond?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> it's a known fact that Norwegians and Danes don't get along
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> unless there's a swede around, anyway
00:39 <GodTodd> it's the whole viking think i think
00:39 <n54> we get along :) and I'm not that keen on KD but haven't heard that much either
00:39 <GodTodd> each one thinks their the original vikes
00:39 <n54> it's the swedes we "hate" :D
00:40 <n54> swedes are the butt of jokes both in norway and denmark :)
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> Why isn't there a Swedish Olympic team?
00:40 <GodTodd> Them and Conspiracy are awesome discs
00:40 <n54> there is...
00:40 <GodTodd> cuz they suck?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> Because every Swede that can run, jump, or swim is already in Denmark.
00:40 <GodTodd> :D
00:40 * n54 saw that coming
00:40 <GodTodd> heh
00:40 <GodTodd> me too
00:41 * GodTodd has a decent amount of Dane in him.
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> do you have any Italian in you?
00:41 <GodTodd> I'ma mutt pretty much
00:41 <n54> as long as it isn't Grand Danois that's perfectly ok GodTodd ^^
00:41 <GodTodd> no and i don't want any either
00:41 <GodTodd> :P
00:42 * Lucifer_arma thinks GodTodd has great dane in him
00:42 <GodTodd> only on sundays ;)
00:42 <GodTodd> lol
00:43 * n54 would like to add that Grand Danois is a dog breed
00:43 <n54> big mfing dogs
00:43 <GodTodd> yep
00:43 <GodTodd> great danes
00:43 <n54> oh ok :)
00:43 <GodTodd> :)
00:44 * Lucifer_arma just made the grand danois/great dane connection while peeing
00:44 <GodTodd> oh...did i mention that climbin' the walls came in yesterday? :D
00:44 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:44 <GodTodd> lol luci
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you did.
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> still waiting for mine
00:44 <GodTodd> :D
00:44 * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man
00:44 <n54> morning z-man :)
00:44 * z-man grunts and nods
00:45 <z-man> too early in the morning for civilized conversation :)
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> so, why don't we build a armagetronad-dedicated linux distro and put it up on cafepress?
00:45 * n54 always imagines Luci wearing a ballgown and posing when he "greets politely" - sorry XD
00:45 * Lucifer_arma politely greets n54
00:46 <GodTodd> think it'd sell?
00:46 <GodTodd> or for free?
00:46 <n54> both?
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> not terribly well, no, but it might help to pay for some bandwidth or something
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> obviously the iso would be a free download off sourceforge
00:47 <n54> we need to make it sort of collectors items like obsd does, include stickers etc., get some good art going
00:47 * n54 would buy that just to support
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> maybe if we did the liveCD thing. :) The audience for the dedicated server is much smaller
00:48 <GodTodd> truly
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> but I can go for that for the liveCD. I just made armagetronad packages for ROCK, I'll throw Crystal Rock on my other partition and test them
00:48 <n54> getting themes working might be helpful too
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> might well have a liveCD with arma on it in a bit
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> few days, anyway
00:48 <GodTodd> now THAT would be cool
00:49 <n54> because themes couold be prereleased on cd only, and free dl would ahve to wait a bit (that's what obsd does too)
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> that'd be something people would probably buy to support the project
00:49 <n54> could*
00:49 <GodTodd> exactly
00:50 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
00:50 <GodTodd> speaking of money....i should look into freelancing....course my novels are brickwalled so...heh
00:50 * GodTodd likes to think out loud.
00:50 <n54> it's ok by me
00:51 <GodTodd> see....norwegians are ok :)
00:51 <GodTodd> heh
00:51 <n54> heh :)
00:51 <n54> until we take out our swords that is ^^
00:52 <GodTodd> ;)
00:52 <n54> then we're "really really ok" :D
00:52 <GodTodd> it's messed up but whenever i think of norwegians i think of monty python
00:52 <GodTodd> heh
00:53 <n54> lol that's not that wrong really, monty python got most of it right :)
00:53 <n54> (you should see most of our politicians)
00:53 <GodTodd> heh
00:54 <n54> and you'ld probably fall voer laughing listening to norwegian :)
00:54 <GodTodd> probably
00:54 <n54> many english do (and some swedes but they don't really count)
00:54 <GodTodd> i'm easily amused :)
00:54 <n54> :)
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> it would be those years of conditioning from watching the swedish chef muppet
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> that guy's funnier than shit
00:54 <GodTodd> lol
00:54 <n54> hehe yes :D
00:55 <n54> and Mr. Bean always reminds me of my father...
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:55 <n54> :D
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I never saw that movie, but I worked with a guy who told me I reminded him of him
00:55 <n54> :)
00:55 * Lucifer_arma did see some Mr. bean tv shows, though
00:55 <GodTodd> did you see they have a new dr. who show?
00:55 <n54> yeah haven't seen the movie either, only the shows
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but douglas adams is dead.
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> I know, he wasn't the only writer on the original dr. who show, but still....
00:56 <GodTodd> i haven't seen the new one
00:56 <GodTodd> just doesn't sit right with me
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> me neither
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> we threw out our cable again
00:57 <n54> /has only seen glimpses of the original stuff
00:57 <GodTodd> threw it out?
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> so we've this big-ass tv with just a dvd/vhs player hooked up
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> good enough for watching star wars
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> this time it was just a metaphor, but in seattle it was real. My wife grabbed the cable box and threw it out into the yard
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> the tv soon followed
00:57 <GodTodd> we just got a dvd recorder/vcr combo
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, I had already thrown our tv away twice (different tv, here in austin, much earlier)
00:58 <GodTodd> heh
00:59 <GodTodd> 110$...couldn't pass on it
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> I could. :)
00:59 <GodTodd> needed a new dvd player after i broke one
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> my computer works very well, thank you.
00:59 <GodTodd> mine too
01:00 <GodTodd> karen wanted another recorder tho...for the kitchen
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> !?
01:00 <GodTodd> ?!
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> does your kitchen have a separate dining room, or attached dining room?
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> integrated dining room?
01:01 <GodTodd> none
01:01 <GodTodd> we have teh table in it tho
01:01 <GodTodd> heh
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> so you have a tv and formerly a computer in your kitchen?
01:01 <GodTodd> both, yes
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> not that I'm knocking the computer thing, I'd love to put a computer in my kitchen
01:01 <GodTodd> and a nintendo 64
01:02 <GodTodd> heh
01:02 <n54> :)
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> weird. americans are fucking weird, that's all there is to it.
01:02 <GodTodd> yep...and we love it
01:02 <GodTodd> :)
01:02 <n54> I promise you it's not just americans :)
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:03 <n54> although I really don't get the butox fad but well...
01:03 <GodTodd> those are all in the kitchen mostly because there's no where else to put them
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> butox? what's that?
01:03 <GodTodd> not that we're disgustlingly rich or anything
01:03 <GodTodd> botox?
01:03 <n54> botox
01:03 <n54> yup
01:03 <GodTodd> the injection shit
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> pump up your cheeks and stuff?
01:04 <GodTodd> i think so, yeah
01:04 * Lucifer_arma should inject some into his penis
01:04 <GodTodd> the new collagen or some shit
01:04 <n54> yeah spend a zillion dollars and look like a zombie stuff
01:04 <GodTodd> it like paralyzes you or something doesn't it?
01:04 <n54> yeah
01:04 <n54> it's a neurotoxin afaik
01:04 <n54> superdeadly
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I know I look like a filthy, mangy dog.
01:04 <GodTodd> to 'perk up' the muscles
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'm happy that way.
01:05 <GodTodd> took me years to get this look
01:05 <GodTodd> hard work
01:05 <GodTodd> :P
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> I've got scars and pits in my cheeks from old zits, and new zits forming all the time.
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> great! I love it!
01:05 <n54> bah sit down for two years and you'll look just like me ^^
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> is your ass shaped like your chair?
01:06 <n54> nope lol my ass is surprisingly super-bouncy
01:06 * GodTodd looks for a quarter.
01:06 <n54> it's some kind of miracle ro something XD
01:06 <GodTodd> :)
01:06 <n54> lol
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> my arms are different colors because the welding machines put out sunlight-level light when I was healing from my motorcycle accident
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> and I think it's awesome
01:06 <n54> hehe
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> but you know, I don't understand make-up either. Make-up, plastic surgery, what's the difference?
01:07 <GodTodd> truly
01:07 <n54> I sort of agree
01:07 <GodTodd> if people want me to look like something i'm not, fuck them
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> my wife hides whenever she puts on makeup so she doesn't have to hear me bitch about how stupid it is
01:08 <GodTodd> i think the last time karen wore makeup was our wedding
01:08 <GodTodd> and i let that slide
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, at least she's not trying to impress *me* with that shit
01:08 <GodTodd> lipstick tastes like shit
01:08 * Lucifer_arma tries to picture karen with makeup
01:08 <GodTodd> it's hard
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't know, I've tasted neither lipstick nor shit
01:08 <n54> I'm not sure, my last x never used any real make-up and so on
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> my wife comes out with anything on her lips, I won't kiss her. I refuse.
01:09 <n54> sometimes it's nice though
01:09 <GodTodd> well....refer to above referenced wedding :P
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'm so glad my wife didn't wear makeup to our wedding. I don't know that I could have kissed her...
01:09 <GodTodd> i toughed it out
01:09 <GodTodd> :D
01:09 <GodTodd> i'm a trooper
01:09 <GodTodd> heh
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> well, we got married on the cheap, in a hurry. :)
01:10 <GodTodd> we did too, kinda....not as much of a hurry but still... :)
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> I wore a tie-dyed t-shirt and my regular pants and stuff, no suit or anything
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> fuck all that ceremonial bullshit
01:10 * n54 never married either one, only common-wifes, been reevaluating that too
01:11 <GodTodd> although it'll be a great story to tell our kids why our arkansas marriage license has her living in texas and me living in nebraska
01:11 <GodTodd> :)
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> haha
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> arkansas definitely isn't between those two points, either
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to enjoy this year, I think.
01:13 <GodTodd> and that the house we were married in is owned by the father i had just met that previous july...
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> "My wife's 25, I'm 31, we've been married for 10 years" :)
01:13 <GodTodd> lol
01:13 <n54> lol
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> come to think of it, that'll only be true for a couple more weeks, she's about to have a birthday
01:14 * Lucifer_arma thinks he liked all those "she's underage" songs a little too much
01:15 <GodTodd> winger fan!
01:15 <GodTodd> ;)
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> Motley Crue - ALl in the name of...
01:17 <n54> gah m?tley crue
01:17 <n54> next you'll be talking about manofwar or somthing like that :P
01:17 <n54> manowar'
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> you think you're soooo cool, having one of those keyboards where you can type motley crue properly....
01:17 <n54> hehe
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> M(umlaut)otley Crue
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> just does't look right
01:18 <GodTodd> ummm M(umlaut)otley Cr(umlaut)ue
01:18 <GodTodd> ;)
01:18 <n54> I've got to make an extra keypress to write ?
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, when I finish my record I'm going to do the logo as Dave Fanc?lla
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> or something like that
01:18 <n54> it's not norwegian :)
01:18 <n54> hehe
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've gotta go Insert->Special Character
01:19 <n54> keyboards should be more utf-8-friendly
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> because you know, putting an umlaut over a letter automatically makes it good metal or something
01:19 <GodTodd> of course
01:19 <n54> that rule only applies for m?torhead
01:20 <GodTodd> just like jagged edges on the logo
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> look, just be happy the japanese didn't beat us to the market with computers. Sure, we've got ascii-centric stuff, but imagine how much worse it could be
01:20 <GodTodd> :)
01:20 <n54> I've seen some japanese keyboards, crazy stuff (chinese too), it doesn't help that they have like four alphabets
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't, heh
01:21 <n54> ther's simply not room for 60000 glyphs (kanji) :D
01:21 <GodTodd> just use a stylus :D
01:21 <n54> so they have these elaborate super-shift thingys
01:22 * Lucifer_arma thinks every language should just switch tot he klingon alphabet
01:22 <n54> it's sticky? :P j/k
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> seems like the accent keys should be handled like shift keys
01:23 <GodTodd> crazy shift ;)
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, you know, shift keys just capitalize letters, after all
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> why not have a shift that also puts an accent?
01:23 <n54> they do here...
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> then one for the umlaut
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> that how they set it up?
01:23 <n54> yes
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> I was under the impression there was a special mode key or something
01:24 <n54> but since it's a norwegian layout we have ae?? as normal keys
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> well that's cool, then. How do I get one of those keyboards for my laptop? :)
01:24 <GodTodd> google it
01:24 <GodTodd> amazon
01:24 <n54> order it in norway? ^^
01:24 <GodTodd> ebay
01:24 <GodTodd> something like that
01:24 <n54> it will be expensive though
01:24 <GodTodd> yep
01:25 <GodTodd> or...have n54 buy one and ship it
01:25 <GodTodd> ;)
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> if it just handles spanish characters, I'm fine. Id like umlauts, don't get me wrong, but I'll be happy with spanish characters
01:25 <n54> that's what I mean by keyboards becoming more utf friendly, they should do stuff like that all over the world
01:25 <n54> hehe would still be expensive :)
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> can't be terribly expensive, I'm only 3 hours from Mexico...
01:25 <n54> perhaps spanish layouts handle umlauts too?
01:25 <n54> yeah could try that
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> not sure.
01:26 <n54> ? <-- that's soanish right?
01:26 <n54> spanish*
01:26 <n54> or at least ?
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <--- should be all that's needed
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> the accents and enye would need to be shifts, the upside down question mark just another key, maybe as a shift
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> so you'd do shift->\ for it, or something
01:27 * n54 can do ? ? ? ? ? ? but not the upside down question mark
01:28 * Lucifer_arma thinks the Spanish are smart, putting an upside down question mark before the sentence so you know it's a question before you get to the end.
01:28 <n54> ctrl-shift ? should be ok for the upside down ?
01:28 * Lucifer_arma would like to adopt that for english
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> nope, didn't get me that
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I could go with that, though.
01:29 <n54> no I meant as in could have been
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should just find out what some of the keyboard layouts supported by kde actually look like, maybe I can just change one of those?
01:29 <n54> you could hack the keyboard controller or the whatever in the os
01:29 <n54> yup
01:30 <n54> and then buy one of those fancy led keyboards where you choose what symbols are displayed
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> keyboard mapping is done mostly by X
01:30 <n54> ok
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> laptop, I'm limited to whatever compaq made for this thing, and that depends on where they marketed it
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go smoke, I'm getting impatient waiting for this distro to build
01:31 <n54> if "fab" ever becomes real one could make f/oss hardware like keyboards
01:31 <n54> ah ok
01:31 <GodTodd> ok...89$ is a lil steep
01:31 <GodTodd> ;)
01:32 <GodTodd> 59$ for spanish
01:32 <n54> :)
01:32 <n54> here http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdeedu/ktouch/create_keyboards.html
01:33 <GodTodd> cool...they have a whole 'upside down' punctuation key
01:33 <n54> hehe
01:34 <n54> yeah they use upside down !'s too don't they?
01:34 <GodTodd> yep
01:35 <GodTodd> holy fucking shit
01:35 <GodTodd> http://www.customkeys.com/catalog_pages/FLK_Chinese.html
01:35 <GodTodd> dunno which is worse....http://www.customkeys.com/catalog_pages/FLK_Japanese.html
01:36 <n54> :D
01:38 <n54> still it's weird that they haven't seen economics of scale in cramming most of latin-1 into one keyboard layout
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> it could be a marketing decision. I wonder how well americans would take to that...
01:38 <n54> alt-gr is already used for a few characters for instance (at least on my)
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> so much white supremacy hiding just under the surface...
01:39 <n54> well most of latin-1 is "white" anyhow
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> even the "tolerant liberals" in Seattle were looking down their noses at the asians there
01:39 <n54> what for?
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> "white" in america is anglo-saxon, technically some german in there, but the English neighbor
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> s/neighbor/language
01:41 <n54> they'ld probably get a heart attack if they ever went to london or oslo with that attitude
01:43 <n54> there's an indian tandoori restaurant in just about every village and city in england and the same goes for kebab stands in norway ^^
01:43 <GodTodd> heh i think a majority of people i 'detest' are white, myself
01:43 <n54> although I'm not so sure the norwegian kebabs are all that halal hehe :D
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=48421#48421 :)
01:44 * n54 waits for his slowas machine to load page
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=4849#4849
01:46 <n54> hehe about the "eating developers" part, that could be sexual harassment you know lol
01:46 <n54> oh
01:47 <n54> yeah Marrow was a nice guy but he tried to pull a dictatorial attitude and things went bad fast, a mistake - but I hope he could change his mind at some point and come back
01:48 <n54> with a different attitude of course
01:49 <GodTodd> well....i think i'ma go hit that thing with pillows on it
01:49 <n54> ok cya :)
01:50 * n54 wonders where Road Kill went, and Maji, and Locutus, and....
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> 'night GodTodd
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> Marrow showed up awhile back, played some fortress and then either changed his name or took off again
01:51 <n54> ah ok
01:52 <Lucifer_arma> locutus is still kicking around, ran into him on swampland a week ago or so
01:52 <n54> cool
01:52 <n54> commie is at subby, so those two are accounted for
01:52 <n54> subby's
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> commie showed up on fortress a little while ago, too. It was awesome. :)
01:53 <n54> maji was awesome, he played with his mouth due to being paralysed
01:53 <n54> ok :)
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> maji hasn't been here while I've been here, sorry.
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> sounds neat, though, playing with his mouth :)
01:54 <n54> he might be hard at study at university or something like that
01:54 <n54> yeah
02:03 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-8-224.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:07 <n54> I've got to trying sleeping again and see if I can become a bit more awake - cya all :)
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
02:15 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: bit out of date isn't it :/
02:15 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> just a little bit :)
02:17 <guru3> and i still couldn't really say who all was working on AA now
02:17 <guru3> :/
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02:30 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: check out meh oath
02:30 <z-man-work> darn
02:30 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
02:30 -!- z-man is now known as z-mand
02:31 -!- z-mand is now known as z-man
02:31 <guru3> z-mand :D
02:31 <guru3> there's high z-mand for z-man!
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> :)
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> z-mandi
02:31 <z-man> Doing the dishes and going the scenic route was pushing it :)
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> z-mandi is hot!
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> ok, we've all been sworn in, the Evil Triumvirate has begin. :)
02:32 <z-man> Mwahahaha!
02:32 <z-man> What shall be our first atrocity?
02:32 <guru3> putting the wiki in the communal database?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, I promised not to eat any developers...
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> the wiki. Hmmm......
02:33 <guru3> you'll notice i didn't ;)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> what version of mysql did you run? 4.1, right?
02:33 <guru3> 5.1
02:33 <guru3> but
02:33 <guru3> i've got a system
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> er, hm.
02:33 <guru3> i can run it out of a home directory
02:33 * Lucifer_arma wonders what version he runs.
02:33 <guru3> so all i need really is a user account
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> Well, here's the thing, the wiki server is currently in flux
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> I'm really impressed with this rock linux and considering getting rid of all that hard gentoo work and putting rock on there
02:34 <guru3> :O
02:34 <guru3> then how about transferring the wiki until you decide
02:34 <guru3> and then adding you in
02:34 <guru3> when you're sure
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's still in Mandriva right now, part of the reason I'm willing to do this is because I didn't manage to get the wiki going on gentoo :)
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> we can do that, that's no problem.
02:35 * Lucifer_arma wonders if tank's user account is still there on the system
02:35 <guru3> i had a user account?
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> I can give you a database dump, but you can get the most recent one yourself when you're ready to do it.
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, remember? back when leviathan was almost a viable project :)
02:35 <guru3> hmmm
02:35 <guru3> do you use a non-standard port?
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> also, it would be nice to upgrade mediawiki in the process :)
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> no, I may have closed the ssh port, lemme check
02:36 <guru3> whoa this is starting to sound like work!
02:36 <z-man> That sounded like Wally :)
02:36 <z-man> (from Dilbert)
02:36 <guru3> (i got it ;))
02:36 <guru3> and you'll need ssh for being part of the 3 ring circus
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> ah, no, it was pointed at a nonexistant machine
02:37 <guru3> can you disable the wiki so no one can make changes?
02:38 * Lucifer_arma scratches head
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> that's a purdy good question
02:38 <guru3> *groan* ><
02:38 * z-man keeps out of it, seeing Lucifer_arma and guru3 sort of got everything under control
02:39 <guru3> lol do you want to become part of the 4 ring circus? 4 way replication?
02:39 <guru3> anyone of us goes down and the whole thing goes to hell? :D
02:39 <z-man> Of course, I'll run whatever you tell me to run on my puny little home server.
02:40 <guru3> how fast _is_ your home server?
02:40 <z-man> You know snails?
02:40 <guru3> yes
02:40 <guru3> they beat me in races everyday
02:40 <z-man> About half as fast.
02:40 <guru3> how much memory?
02:40 <guru3> it might not be able to run the stuff Oo
02:41 <z-man> 128 Mbit upstream, 128 Mbyte memory, 233 Mhz Pentium MMX
02:41 <guru3> mmmm m
02:41 <guru3> k
02:41 <guru3> 128mbit? :O
02:41 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: MediaWiki on Gentoo is simple enough, unless you patch it
02:41 <z-man> kbit
02:41 <guru3> doh!
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> ours is patched
02:41 <guru3> how so?
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm sure wrtlprnft wouldn't mind remaking his patch for a newer version :)
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> spam protection
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> form fields are different, and there are several on the page
02:42 <guru3> is there like a . patch file?
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> only one is accepted
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, no patch file. ask wrtlprnft for it
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't find a way to lock the entire wiki
02:42 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: has he submitted it to MW?
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> beats me, he only just made it a couple of days ago
02:42 <Luke-Jr> or is it hacked in?
02:43 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: ok, instead of that move the wiki out of the directory it's in
02:43 * Luke-Jr thinks that's a pretty good idea, especially if it uses CSS to hide the fakes
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> ? hacked in..... I don't know.
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> it uses css to hide the fakes :) view source on the login page
02:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I presume you know how to move MySQL dbs?
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> haha, sure, ummm.....
02:43 <Luke-Jr> <.<
02:43 <guru3> like mkdir ../old
02:43 * Lucifer_arma usually exports to sql and then reimports
02:44 <guru3> mov wiki/* ../old/
02:44 <Luke-Jr> that's how =p
02:44 <Luke-Jr> mov? wtf?
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: to disable the wiki?
02:44 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: typo
02:44 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: yeah just move it out of the dir that apache2 looks in
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> I could just disable the vhost for it.... :)
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> you know, comment it out and restart apache
02:44 <guru3> that would work too
02:44 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: FWIW, USE=vhosts in Gentoo ;)
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> better yet, point that at a page that says "Wiki disabled, please stand by"
02:45 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: is it /www/wiki ?
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> vhosts work on the gentoo installation, it's php that doesn't
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> or was it something else? I forgot now what it was that wasn't working
02:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: USE=vhosts is needed so Gentoo doesn't automatically install webapps to localhost vhost
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: yes
02:45 <Luke-Jr> what ver of php?
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> 5
02:45 <guru3> don't use 5 yet
02:45 <Luke-Jr> does MW support 5?
02:45 <guru3> 5 breaks the forums
02:46 <Luke-Jr> 5 breaks a lot of stuff
02:46 <Luke-Jr> emerge =dev-lang/php-4*
02:46 <Luke-Jr> with USE=apache2
02:46 <guru3> i just masked 5 & up
02:46 <Luke-Jr> guru3: I have both installed
02:46 <Luke-Jr> tho Apache2 just uses 4
02:47 <guru3> i vas not that clever
02:47 <guru3> but the machine i was testing on is also not rich in disk space
02:47 <Luke-Jr> neither is mine
02:47 <guru3> ><
02:47 <Luke-Jr> but I figure I'll experiment with PHP5 sometime
02:47 * Lucifer_arma will gladly keep using php4
02:47 <Luke-Jr> at which point my time is better spent making both PHP4 and PHP5 work within the same Apache2 instance
02:48 <Luke-Jr> than compiling
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> I need an .htaccess file that'll redirect all page requests to the index
02:48 <Luke-Jr> easy ;)
02:48 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: sucking up the wiki over scp
02:48 <Luke-Jr> RewriteEngine On
02:48 <Luke-Jr> RewriteRule .* /index.php
02:48 <Luke-Jr> RewriteRule .* /index.php [R=301]
02:49 <Luke-Jr> that might be better.. or maybe 302
02:49 <Luke-Jr> whichever is Temp Moved
02:49 <guru3> looks like it's going in slow motion
02:49 <guru3> aka not at all
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> ?
02:50 <Luke-Jr> guru3: I suggest scp -C
02:50 <guru3> Luke-Jr: doesn't like that when i try it
02:50 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: do you have the scp sub system disabled?
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> not that I know of. I scp to it all the time
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: that rewrite rule results in redirect limits being exceeded in firefox
02:51 <guru3> cause it's just sitting after the password prompt here :/
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> um, could just be some cpu overload going on
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> it's pretty responsive for me, though
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> it is very slow to authenticate, howeer
02:52 <guru3> uploading it to myself instead of uploading it from you direct to server
02:53 <guru3> weeee look at it go
02:53 <guru3> shoulda run it in a screen ><
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> ok, seems to be working now
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> wiki is disabled. When you want, you can just reenable it by pointing the dns stuff at your box :)
02:53 <guru3> oky
02:54 <guru3> nice db password :)
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> ssshhhhhh!
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> :)
02:55 <guru3> :D
02:55 <guru3> only 19M for the wiki's db
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's not bad
02:55 <guru3> it's itsybitsy
02:56 <guru3> the forums is all friggin huge compared to that
02:57 <guru3> don't tell me there's more than one wiki in that database...
02:57 <guru3> *groan* there is
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> ? shouldn't be....
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> did you grab the right database?
02:58 <guru3> there's a mediaw_ set of tables
02:58 <guru3> and mw_ set of tables
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> you grabbed wikidb?
02:58 <guru3> mysqldump -u wikiuser -p wikidb > /home/fcs/wiki.sql
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> $wgDBprefix = "mw_"; <--- use these tables
02:59 <guru3> that bit i got
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> so you should be able to drop the rest, probably a test database
02:59 <guru3> but i have to work out a way to weed out the rest of the stuff now ><
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> sorry. I must have been messier than I thought. I could swear I dropped the test database when I installed this thing!
02:59 <guru3> it's not a test db tho
02:59 <guru3> it's just another set of tables
03:00 <guru3> don't worry tho, i think they're empty
03:00 <guru3> which means they'll be easy to delete
03:00 <guru3> after opening 100MB forum dump files
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, if they're empty it was a test db, one I installed to test mediawiki :)
03:00 <guru3> opening a 19MB wiki dump will be small change
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh
03:01 <guru3> not gonna be fun to insert it into the db network tho ><
03:03 <guru3> and now it's 18MB :D
03:08 <guru3> inserting the database
03:09 <guru3> well that's inserted
03:09 <guru3> just waiting on the directory now
03:09 <guru3> all these stupid people uploading shit!
03:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: crap, hehe... make an exception for the index XD
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> :) fixed it. modified the regex to look for *.php*
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's working for me, anyway
03:12 <guru3> eet's like the slow motion upload from hell D:
03:12 <Luke-Jr> heh
03:12 <guru3> i'm gonna make some toast
03:12 <guru3> bbiab
03:12 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: good job finding a way to solve the problems of relative resource references, BTW
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> wasn't it obvious? :) ty
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> and thanks for the regex
03:13 <Luke-Jr> well, nobody suggested it before
03:13 * Lucifer_arma is slightly distracted trying to get this carlinux building
03:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I don't suppose you have a solution to the length problem?
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> not terribly concerned about it. Good readability requires extra characters, you just have to live with it.
03:16 <Luke-Jr> "extra characters" doesn't always mean "more than double the length"
03:17 <Luke-Jr> I should stop repeating my post here and just let you reply on the forum, I guess =p
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> I don't see how that matters. Readability is all-important to me, I'm willing to spend whatever characters are needed to do that
03:18 <Luke-Jr> hm
03:18 <Luke-Jr> so maybe we should drop XML for English =p
03:18 <Luke-Jr> actually, nevermind that... English sucks for parsing
03:18 <Luke-Jr> Esperanto maybe
03:20 <guru3> huzzah it's done
03:22 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: i'll wait with the upgrade until wrtlprnft makes a new patch
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03:31 <guru3> ok i've got my local mirror of the wiki up
03:31 <guru3> now if i only had an account...
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> no account on the wiki?
03:34 <guru3> yeah
03:34 <guru3> don't think i ever got around to creating one
03:35 <guru3> where is stuff uploaded to on the wii?
03:35 <guru3> *wiki
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> images, looks like
03:36 <guru3> ok
04:06 <guru3> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Main_Page
04:06 <guru3> back in buisness
04:06 <guru3> feel free to screw your server up now lucifer :)
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> thanks. :) I'll do it right away...
04:08 <guru3> ^^
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> haha, rock's building two targets simultaneously now
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> I hope my laptop doesn't melt
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06:07 <madmax|pt> hello
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06:15 <Lucifer_arma> hello
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06:15 <Lucifer_arma> :) (ok, fine, that was annoying)
06:16 * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
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06:40 <n54> much better :)
06:56 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
06:58 <wrtlprnft> #morning
06:58 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: printk(KERN_DEBUG "%s: BUG... transmitter died. Kicking it.\n",...) || linux-2.6.6/drivers/net/acenic.c
06:58 <wrtlprnft> what version do you guys want me to make a patch for?
06:58 <wrtlprnft> guru3: Lucifer_arma
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: your call, I'd say "latest stable"
07:00 <joda_bot> #notes
07:00 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: I have no notes waiting to be delivered.
07:00 <wrtlprnft> the whole point of the patch is to NOT submit it to mediawiki
07:01 * Lucifer_arma is asleep and therefore incapable of disagreeing
07:01 <wrtlprnft> nice dreams?
07:02 * Lucifer_arma is, however, happy to have cleared out the storage of notes waiting to be delivered to $randomnick, Lucifer_arma, , and such.
07:02 <wrtlprnft> nickserv, memoserv, chanserv?
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, all that crap. it was getting on my nerves.
07:04 <wrtlprnft> you'd just need to convince nickserv to join here...
07:05 <wrtlprnft> gosh, heard of that hole in ms word?
07:06 <wrtlprnft> now ms is trying to tell its users to start word with the /save command line switch? what?
07:06 <wrtlprnft> show me the user that can actually do that
07:06 <wrtlprnft> and they let you wait until the middle of june to fix it
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> you can start word with command line switches? That's news to me
07:08 <Lucifer_arma> I always started word from the commandline by typing "soffice somefile.doc"
07:08 <wrtlprnft> yes, word has commandline switches
07:09 <wrtlprnft> they want you to create a link on the desktop for it and change the settings in explorere
07:09 <wrtlprnft> -e
07:09 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit. word has commandline switches. wow.
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07:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm a let the screensaver kick in and actually go to bed in a few minutes, so my two rock build processes will have more cpu time to share
07:11 <wrtlprnft> nigh
07:11 <wrtlprnft> t
07:20 <n54> cya luci
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08:57 <guru3> wrtlprnft: i'd say latest stable as well
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09:26 <SuPeRTaRD> i miss playing.. wonder if i get a newer videocard if this compy would run it right
09:27 <SuPeRTaRD> i dont think aatron sees this geforce2
09:27 <z-man-work> Maybe you haven't got the right OpenGL installed?
09:27 <SuPeRTaRD> or something.. no acceleration..
09:28 <z-man-work> Usually, the NVIDIA drivers take care of that...
09:28 <z-man-work> What's the rest of the system like?
09:28 <SuPeRTaRD> hmmm
09:28 <SuPeRTaRD> pentium3 600mhz
09:28 <z-man-work> Err, software, mostly :)
09:28 <z-man-work> WinXP?
09:28 <SuPeRTaRD> half gig of ram
09:29 <SuPeRTaRD> win2k pro
09:29 <SuPeRTaRD> i'll try some diff drivers later
09:29 <SuPeRTaRD> thx for the idea
09:30 <SuPeRTaRD> �8)
09:30 <SuPeRTaRD> time to go paint houses
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11:49 <madmax|pt> hello
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12:48 * wrtlprnft hopes the login source for mw 2.* isn't too much different from 1.*
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16:07 <madmax|pt> sooooo...
16:08 <[NP]Tangent> man
16:08 <[NP]Tangent> I had an awesome day
16:08 <[NP]Tangent> I had an hour and a half off during finals
16:08 <[NP]Tangent> so I took my laptop and some speakers in to the cafeteria at our school
16:09 <[NP]Tangent> and started playing speedcore, terrorcore, speedbass, and gabber really loud.
16:09 <[NP]Tangent> some of it I made
16:09 <[NP]Tangent> and holy crap did I piss people off
16:10 <madmax|pt> lol
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16:12 <madmax|pt> i think this channel has a tight relationship with monologues
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--- Log opened Wed May 24 16:28:06 2006
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16:28 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
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17:30 * Lucifer_arma wonders what speedcore, terrorcore, speedbass, and gabber are
17:30 * Lucifer_arma is back.
17:43 <deja_vu_> o.o
17:43 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> where's n54 when I want to tell a really bad joke?
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> #message n54 Why do Mexicans eat tamales for Christmas?
17:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:00 <wrtlprnft> now make an alias for "echo youranswerhere" and msg him that, too
18:00 <wrtlprnft> so he can chack :P
18:00 <wrtlprnft> *check
18:00 <wrtlprnft> and delete it after
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> I'll probably be here when he answers
18:02 <wrtlprnft> #alias add test "alias remove test"
18:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:02 <wrtlprnft> #test
18:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:02 <wrtlprnft> #test
18:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O lol
18:02 <wrtlprnft> cleans its evidence
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> "don't push this button again"
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> #alias add pushredbutton "echo Don't push this button again!"
18:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> #pushredbutton
18:03 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
18:03 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:03 <wrtlprnft> as if there weren't enough aliases :D
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> as if there weren't enough *useless* aliases :D
18:04 <wrtlprnft> :P
18:04 <wrtlprnft> #insight
18:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The insipid outgrowth of current epistemologies will uglify today's education.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #roulette
18:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: *click*
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #roulette
18:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: *click*
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 'alias remove $1'"
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #roulette
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: *click*
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #roulette
18:05 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
18:05 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #test
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #help test
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (test <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "'alias remove test'".
18:05 <wrtlprnft> argh
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 alias remove $1"
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 <wrtlprnft> #test
18:05 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 <wrtlprnft> now i need to hide a message in that
18:06 <wrtlprnft> #echo [
18:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Missing "]". You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
18:06 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 echo $* [alias remove $1]"
18:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:06 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test hi there
18:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no such alias.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 echo $2 [alias remove $1]"
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test hi
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no such alias.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "echo add $1 echo $2 [alias remove $1]
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: No closing quotation
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 echo $2 [alias remove $1]"
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test hi there
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no such alias.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "echo add $1 echo $2 [alias remove $1]"
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> #selfcleanalias test hi there
18:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no such alias.
18:08 <wrtlprnft> !
18:08 <wrtlprnft> #alias add selfcleanalias "alias add $1 alias remove $1"
18:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:08 * wrtlprnft goes into a private conversation with armabot
18:08 * Lucifer_arma cheers
18:09 <wrtlprnft> :P
18:09 <wrtlprnft> i want it to print a message and then poof it disappears
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> I think Armagetron Linux should come with an irc bot that comes here and spams us
18:10 <wrtlprnft> not really
18:10 <wrtlprnft> but it should come with an irc client that logs into here
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I was thinking of the server edition :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> does anybody know if the arma-on-a-floppy that tank and the others did way back when was a bootable floppy?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> whatever you're planning to do, it should come with an icon that fetches the latest CVS and compiles it
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, I think it should be capable of fetching from svn a given tag, not sure about the trunk though. I mean, yeah, it should be able to do it,
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> but providing updates to the stable branch is more important, imo
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> and it should be able to get those updates direct from svn, and take part in any prerelease process on the stable branch
18:14 <wrtlprnft> it should offer a choice ;)
18:14 <wrtlprnft> either latest branch or latest trunk
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> luckily, rock requires the development environment to be installed, it's package management is a little weak, so the system will automatically be able to build arma
18:14 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be awhile before we can brand the installer app. It uses a shell script with a dialog creator that's ncurses
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> so a new installer app will need to be written. if I like rock after I've installed it, I'll join their mailing lists and see what I can contribute there
18:17 <wrtlprnft> whats wrong with ncurses?
18:18 <wrtlprnft> this bot's syntax sucks
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> nothing's wrong with ncurses. I just wnat a graphical installer with cool logos and stuff, maybe even cheesy sound effects. What's wrong with that?
18:20 <wrtlprnft> gosh, stay away :P
18:20 <wrtlprnft> you wanna make a server, right?
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but there's no reason we can't have X on the installer disk
18:21 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't have any reason to even have X11 installed
18:21 <wrtlprnft> or even a graphics card, for that matter
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, there's an argument to install X, if we have an X-based gui config tool
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> you gotta keep in mind this is targetted at people like dr. joe tron, who maybe have some real problems working with linux.
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> it's gotta be great for those of us who dont' have such problems, that's true, too.
18:22 <wrtlprnft> if they can't use a good ncurses app they shouldn't run a server
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> I'll see how we can insert an IQ test to the installer...
18:22 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:23 <wrtlprnft> ok, hard question: how do you make an alias that echoes "["?
18:23 <wrtlprnft> I don't get it
18:30 <wrtlprnft> any idea? :(
18:37 <Lucifer_arma> you have escape the bracket, obviously
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> why does my weedeater make my right hand twitchy?
18:48 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-187-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: so how do i escape the bracket?
18:49 <Lucifer_arma> beats me
18:49 <wrtlprnft> \[ won't work, and the alias command eats "["
18:49 <wrtlprnft> wow, bzflag sucks more than i thought
18:49 <wrtlprnft> it autokicks you for having more than 300ms lag
18:49 <wrtlprnft> what a joke
18:53 <nemostultae> #alias add "\[" echo test
18:53 <armabot> nemostultae: Error: Names cannot contain spaces or square brackets.
18:56 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.randomperspective.com/page.asp?1news167 <--- haha, courtesy of K
19:02 <wrtlprnft> gosh, ct fortress is full of idiots
19:02 <wrtlprnft> some guy constantly screws up my def, i try to get him kicked (after he insulted me), he places a kick poll on me, and the idiots there accept every poll
19:18 <Self_Destructo> it can be
19:18 <Self_Destructo> i wish he would just get rid of the polls....
19:18 <Self_Destructo> ummm
19:19 <Self_Destructo> i got an idea...
19:19 <Self_Destructo> make it to where you can only vote for or against someone on your team
19:20 <Self_Destructo> then it isn't the other team voting to keep the person in so they can continue to wreck your team
19:20 <Self_Destructo> I've seen that happen many times
20:03 <wrtlprnft> there should be two different kinds of poll then
20:04 <wrtlprnft> one to kick someone because he's a teamkiller (only the team can vote) and one because it's just a jerk (everyone can vote)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> #later tell guru3 http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/wikihack.tar.bz2
20:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> has anybody tried to build arma with a cross-compiler from linux for windows?
21:17 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
21:18 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AEB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:19 <wrtlprnft> no, not me
21:19 <wrtlprnft> if you find out how to make an installer from linux I'd volounteer to make pre-alpha versions of CVS HEAD on a regular basis
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> I can make installers, if it can be built
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> wine will run both nsis and the other one
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> ummm..... what's the other one? Doesn't matter, we use nsis.
21:22 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> so, if we can get arma cross-compiled from linux, we can build an installer with wine and nsis
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> besides libxml2, what does the server need to build? 0.2.8 server, that is
21:27 * Lucifer_arma points out that nsis is a command line compiler and could be integrated in the build system, so regular snapshots could be built from a cronjob
21:28 <nemostultae> I thought someone already made an automated window build system?
21:28 <nemostultae> windows*
21:29 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know, just wants to build windows versions from linux :)
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> maybe K had something going?
21:29 <nemostultae> yea, I think so
21:30 <wrtlprnft> k has something, but it's VC6
21:30 <wrtlprnft> and that fails to build more often that it doesn't
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. and we're trying to get free of vcX, right?
21:30 <wrtlprnft> vc6, yes
21:31 <wrtlprnft> i think z-man-work is keeping vc7 or something
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, vcX, as in "we build on Free software only"
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> * + on all supported platforms
21:31 * Lucifer_arma thinks we should switch to gcc builds in the 0.3 series
21:31 <wrtlprnft> what's the point? if it builds on vc7, keep it building
21:32 <wrtlprnft> if one day vc7 is far behind gcc we might reconsider
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not saying don't keep it building, just that it shouldn't be required, and our own releases should be done from Free software
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but that's admin buisness :P have fun with it
21:32 * Lucifer_arma seems to recall gcc builds outperforming vc7 :)
21:32 <wrtlprnft> they're already
21:32 <wrtlprnft> 0.2.8.2 won't be released as vc6 build
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> didn't we stop building in vc6 awhile ago, though? And nobody wanted to maintain it?
21:33 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but z-man-work fixed it again, at some expense
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> so, besides libxml2, what else do we need to build the server? on linux, that is?
21:34 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3454#47607
21:34 <wrtlprnft> glibc
21:35 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090A484.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's it? just glibc?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> but the ./configure output for the server shows no checks for other libraries, no
21:37 <wrtlprnft> or no
21:37 <wrtlprnft> checking for IceConnectionNumber in -lICE... yes
21:37 <wrtlprnft> whatever that is
21:37 <wrtlprnft> checking for X... libraries , headers
21:37 <wrtlprnft> no clue what that is
21:38 <Lucifer_arma> the server's checking for X?!?
21:38 <wrtlprnft> X, not X11, methinks
21:38 * Lucifer_arma will know soon enough, after his crystal build is done he's going to kick off an arma build
21:40 <wrtlprnft> let's see how that XGL demo live CD I'll have finished downloading works on qemu :D
21:40 * wrtlprnft is surprising how fast that torrent is... usually they're creeping by at 50 kb/s... that one goes up to 400
21:40 * wrtlprnft is *surprised*
21:40 <Lucifer_arma> probably a popular torrent
21:41 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> shit, it's still on kdebase
21:41 <wrtlprnft> that'll take a while
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'll tell you one thing, this distribution-building is time consuming
21:41 <wrtlprnft> yep
21:41 <wrtlprnft> once you have a working Gentoo try emerge -e world
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> but I got my carlinux to build and install in qemu, so I can start tweaking it, but I'd really like to get crystal rock on my other partition and see how it is
21:42 * Lucifer_arma is likely about to drop the Gentoo experiment, rock is cool. :)
21:42 <wrtlprnft> :P
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> the installer's a little rough around the edges, though.
21:42 <wrtlprnft> how does that thing perform on daily updates?
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> don't know, I need to get it installed and running before I can tell you anything about it
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> the package system isn't as mature as portage or any of the rest, though.
21:43 <wrtlprnft> well, i want my system to update easily
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not terribly worried about that, though. They're working on it, and if I like it as much as I think I will, I'll be happy to throw some help their way if it gets me a distribution that works my way
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> Frankly, I'm starting to get pretty sick of being at the mercy of distribution-makers in general. Neat thing about rock is I become the distribution-maker
21:45 <wrtlprnft> well, that means you have to maintain your packages yourself
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> not necessarily. Their package system is pretty self-served. Consider that they have a respectably large collection of packages, but a very small group working on them.
21:45 <wrtlprnft> I don't want to be bothered with every little update of every little piece of software
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> there is some serious cool automation in there
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> you can stick with gentoo and be happy about it. :) I've been leaning towards lfs for some time now, and this is essentially automated lfs
21:47 <wrtlprnft> 1:30 minutes and i'll be busy :D
21:47 <wrtlprnft> at least if it works ;)
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> ?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> xgl demo life cd
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right. See if you can wrap arma around corners between desktops :)
21:48 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:48 <wrtlprnft> will be slow though in an emulation
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> emulation?
21:49 <wrtlprnft> qemu
21:49 <wrtlprnft> missing a CD burner right now
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhh, ok.
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> so what packages of existing software should be on an arma server?
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> openssh is there
21:49 <wrtlprnft> screen
21:50 <wrtlprnft> python, php, perl for scripts
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> perl's there already, I think. I'll add python and php
21:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, armagetronad-dedicated
21:52 <wrtlprnft> i love distributions that replace their startup text by some screenbuffer thingy
21:53 <wrtlprnft> now it shows some stupid image and i have no clue whether it's actually doing something
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> I like that, actually
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> screen is already there
21:54 <wrtlprnft> i don't like it. that image adds no use whatsoever
21:54 <wrtlprnft> especially for a live- CD
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> Kubuntu has the image, and then there's a little viewscreen that shows the startup procedure
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> so you get prettiness, and real output that means something
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> better than Mandriva's progress bar, but mandriva lets you press escape to get the verbose output
21:55 <wrtlprnft> those things aren't unlikely to fail, and if they don't show an error of some sort you have no clue what went wrong
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> throw kubuntu in your qemu and look at what it gives you
21:56 <wrtlprnft> i know kubuntu
21:56 * Lucifer_arma thinks it gives you just as much as Gentoo :)
21:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, well
21:57 <wrtlprnft> there is no direct documentation on how to set it up to use a proxy server
21:57 <wrtlprnft> and you have to change lots and lots of different files to get there
21:57 <wrtlprnft> and the fact that it scanned for a DHCP server with some super- long timeout on two network cards annoyed me, too
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> ? what are you talking about?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> tell kubuntu's installer to use the school proxy
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> I'm just talking about tossing it in there to see that you have both the pretty picture and the verbose startup output during startup
21:58 <wrtlprnft> 21:56 * Lucifer_arma thinks it gives you just as much as Gentoo :)
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> ack, nvm. Apparently you need to get your hippocampus checked out. :P
21:59 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> <wrtlprnft> i love distributions that replace their startup text by some screenbuffer thingy <---- this was the topic
22:00 <wrtlprnft> anyways, talking about this specific CD image, it doesn't give you anything
22:00 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> hippocampus records memories. People who have their hippocampus removed can't remember anything new after the point where it was removed
22:00 <wrtlprnft> neither any status output, nore console messages, nor a (visible) way to turn it off
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> press escape and see what it does
22:01 <wrtlprnft> nothing
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> space bar?
22:01 <wrtlprnft> the only way was kororaa-nofb
22:01 <wrtlprnft> like, reboot and use another kernel image
22:01 <wrtlprnft> no, no space bar
22:01 * Lucifer_arma points out it's a demo cd, not a production os
22:01 <wrtlprnft> even more important
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> + to cover up the errors :)
22:02 <wrtlprnft> if my production os starts up once i can assume it will start up the next time i start it, too
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> I don't fool with demos because they're all about showing off, and that's it. Useless otherwise.
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> so if you want to fool with something that's all about showing off, you have to take the fact that everything you see is geared towards showing off along with it
22:03 <wrtlprnft> well, i wanna see how cool this XGL thing really is before messing around with it on my normal system
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> show me the production os, and then I'll worry about the framebuffered startup
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, one of the things that I liked about Mandriva is that I could use the non-verbose startup when everything was fine, but when something went wrong I could hit escape and see
22:04 <wrtlprnft> wow, startup is taking 10 minutes now... i don't wanna guess how slow the GUI will be
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> this was back when it was still Mandrake :)
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> qemu
22:04 * wrtlprnft should have used kqemu
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I think I have apache and php4 added, what else?
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> mind you it'll probably be building this distribution all night...
22:05 <wrtlprnft> dunno...
22:05 <wrtlprnft> *** YOUR VIDEO CARD IS NOT SUPPORTED ***
22:05 <wrtlprnft> It looks like you don't have a supported 3D Video Card.
22:05 <wrtlprnft> Sorry anout that :(
22:06 <wrtlprnft> You can still use this CD without Xgl though! Press Enter to continue
22:06 <wrtlprnft> _
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> haha
22:06 <wrtlprnft> wow, it's telling me that NOW?
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> after 10 minutes of framebuffered startup?
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> that bites
22:06 <wrtlprnft> yep
22:06 <wrtlprnft> so all i get is a command line
22:07 <wrtlprnft> that i had before i typed in my qemu command
22:07 -!- Ringwraith` [i=debian-t@tor/session/external/x-9f55abaa44d8c757] has joined #armagetron
22:07 <Ringwraith`> SUPERTARD!
22:07 <wrtlprnft> guess he's not here right now
22:07 <wrtlprnft> maybe he's hiding
22:07 <Ringwraith`> hehe
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm going to wait until I have Crystal Linux installed to do any more with distribution building
22:08 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:08 <Ringwraith`> im trying to get advanced information from the master server the hardway
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I really need to test the armagetronad-dedicated package before I try this
22:08 <wrtlprnft> what a waste of time, that Xgl thing was
22:08 <Ringwraith`> right now i wrote a program that uses the armagetron stuff but it only gets basic info
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> write a program that uses the armagetronad stuff instead
22:09 * wrtlprnft digs out the link
22:09 <Ringwraith`> fuck that didnt work either
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.armagetronad.net/
22:09 <Ringwraith`> no i mean the armagetronad
22:09 <Ringwraith`> not regular
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> ? armagetronad is regular...
22:10 <Ringwraith`> well AD then
22:10 <Ringwraith`> im using the AD source for this
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, what information are you trying to get? Are you sure it's even available?
22:10 <nemostultae> why not armagetron-superad?
22:10 <Ringwraith`> i need to get player info
22:10 <Ringwraith`> maybe even scores would be nice
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> master server doesn't have that
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> you have to poll the servers themselves, that's what the client does
22:10 <Ringwraith`> so im going to have to iterate through that list then create a bunch of nServerInfo objects to store that info?
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> yep
22:11 <Ringwraith`> or something of that sort
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> yep
22:11 * Lucifer_arma can't wait until Armagetron Super Ultra Advanced comes out
22:11 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetronad.net/browser2/serverxml.php
22:11 <wrtlprnft> try that file if you just need information
22:11 <Ringwraith`> can i put a kitchen sink on some of the pointers flying around in this obsfucated mess
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> sure
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> just do #include <kitchensink.h>
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> you have to have installed the plumber's package, though, and they might bug your phones, so be careful
22:12 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, well that info is nice but it doesnt have ips...
22:12 <wrtlprnft> would it be gKitchenSink.h, tKitchenSink, or rKitchenSink?
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> none, it's a system library
22:12 <Ringwraith`> well i need a tCaulk.h in tools then
22:13 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, my goal is to write a full fledged kde/qt based server browser
22:13 <wrtlprnft> uh, that file does have the IPS of the servers
22:13 <Ringwraith`> and maybe a sys tray app
22:13 <wrtlprnft> yay, go ahead!
22:13 * wrtlprnft wants that
22:13 * Lucifer_arma wants that too, as a kopete plugin :)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, hm. Did I commit the armagetron: protocol stuff for kde?
22:14 <nemostultae> ah, yea, I think so
22:14 <wrtlprnft> Ringwraith`: what information is missing in that file?
22:14 * Lucifer_arma hopes so, because if not he doesn't remember where it is
22:14 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, a lot of servers
22:14 <wrtlprnft> it has the server ips and ports, description, name, url, and player list
22:15 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, what arma protocol stuff
22:15 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, yeah i thought it was the same as the .de list
22:15 <nemostultae> but it wasn't a real protocol handler. It just passed --connect server:port to armagetronad
22:15 <wrtlprnft> uh, no clue where those went. that's guru3's stuff, usually it shows all servers
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, so if you get a link like armagetronad://swampy.sytes.net/
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> you could click on it and it would open up the game pointed at that server
22:16 <wrtlprnft> try again in ten minutes and see if there's more servers :)
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> only available in cvs, though. It's not in 0.2.8
22:16 <Ringwraith`> i could add a konqueror handler easily
22:16 <nemostultae> but if they game was already running it wouldn't work, correct?
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> it would start a new process, I think
22:16 <Ringwraith`> right now the app i have would require the frontend to use a command line program
22:17 <Ringwraith`> that connects real fast gets the info and disconnects
22:17 <nemostultae> the mac os x one handles events when the game is running, which is nice.
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> what I'm trying to tell you is that in cvs head there's some extra kde integration, so you can take advantage of it
22:17 <Ringwraith`> cool
22:17 <Ringwraith`> if sf's cvs working 100% now
22:17 <Ringwraith`> er is
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> if you can improve the kde integration, please send a patch. Most of us linux developers are using kde, and we'd love it :)
22:17 <Ringwraith`> fucking cpp
22:18 <Ringwraith`> i really have been tempted to try to write a tron engine in qt
22:18 <Ringwraith`> it could be done
22:18 <Ringwraith`> and quite nicely
22:18 <Ringwraith`> plus it'd help with framerates considerably
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> how would it help with framerates?
22:19 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he really wants to see what kind of worms are in this can.
22:19 <Ringwraith`> i hate getting on a full server with 10 others and the whole engine takes 100% of my cpu and lowers my framerate to 10 even though i have a good net connection
22:20 <Ringwraith`> when the grid gets full the engine starts to suck
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> and how would having the engine written in qt fix that?
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> ok, would it fix it because it's a completely new engine, or would it fix it because it's qt?
22:21 * Lucifer_arma notes that this engine is fairly mature, a new engine would have to solve all the problems that are already solved in current code
22:21 <Ringwraith`> well new codebase for one could mean for lots of good optimiziations, and qt has GL support really nicely, qt4.0 is i think about 50% faster and that framework would make it easier for devs and make some simple things and hacks ive seen in the source disasppear
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> in exchange for a 40MB dependency
22:22 <Ringwraith`> true
22:22 <Ringwraith`> AD's mem requirements are low
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> also, we use opengl directly, qt would be an interface library between us and opengl
22:22 <Ringwraith`> but its killing my CPU when the grid is full
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> 40MB is a lot to download on a dialup connection
22:22 <Ringwraith`> 100% cpu on a game like this shouldnt be...
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> ? what version are you using? I assume you're in linux, to boot, right?
22:23 <wrtlprnft> uh, what CPU?
22:23 <Ringwraith`> yes
22:23 <Ringwraith`> a 2.4ghz p4
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> ok, version and cpu?
22:23 <Ringwraith`> well celeron
22:23 <nemostultae> z-man mentioned re-factoring the grid data-structure awhile ago, but instead he did the the tString -> std::string conversion
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> celeron
22:23 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't use all of it
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> with no cache, right?
22:23 <Ringwraith`> slack 10.2, arma compiled myself
22:23 <wrtlprnft> i have 1 pemtium-m 1.3GHz, and the cpu has only about 60% useage
22:23 <Lucifer_arma> celeron = neutered p4
22:24 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, a 256kb cache i think
22:24 <wrtlprnft> the real bottleneck is the graphics
22:24 <Ringwraith`> hey it was cheap at the time :)
22:24 <Ringwraith`> oh i have a geforce 3
22:24 <Ringwraith`> with nvidia's driver
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> my athlon screams, I run at 40-70fps all the time, even with 16 players on the server
22:24 <Ringwraith`> but i bring this thing in top when im playing on a large server and 100% cpu usage
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> geforce 4, I think. :) nforce chipset...
22:24 <wrtlprnft> i don't see the player number affecting the framerate a lot
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't. Nor cpu usage, from my observations
22:25 <wrtlprnft> although it does if you compile with DEBUGLEVEL=4
22:25 <Ringwraith`> well its more or less the number of objects on the grid
22:25 <wrtlprnft> *=3
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> only between rounds, when the ingame media player starts to struggle
22:25 <Ringwraith`> more objects means more objects to process and render
22:25 <Ringwraith`> like the engine is stressed when you have a grid i'd say around 75% to 80% full
22:25 <Ringwraith`> more players obviously cause more trails to occur
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> what server?
22:25 <wrtlprnft> what is 80% full?
22:25 <Ringwraith`> and i think thats the bottle neck
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> what server?
22:26 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, 80% of the grid is occupied
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> and what version is the server?
22:26 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, any
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> really? even the nice cvs fortress server?
22:26 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, probably various i havent kept track of serverv ersion info
22:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, no matter how many walls you havem the occupation will still be 0%
22:26 <nemostultae> You guys don't remember swampland turn-spamming to kill others' fps?
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:26 <Ringwraith`> but norm's does it, icemans does it and most of the other servers when the grid gets full to a point it starts killing the framerate and hogging cpu
22:27 <wrtlprnft> well, then improve it I'd say
22:27 * Lucifer_arma hasn't turn-spammed in a long time, it's not practical on fortress
22:27 <Ringwraith`> wrtlprnft, i've tried, this source its quite tough to learn
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> amen to that
22:28 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work is the guy that does most of the engine
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> yet, I just don't see how adding a huge library will somehow improve performance.
22:28 <Ringwraith`> basically i call it a bunch of pointers flying around the place having sort of a symbiotic relationship between them
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> have you run it through a profiler? what evidence do you actually have to support this?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> i never understood a lot about the engine, to be honest
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> I ask because everybody and their kid brother comes along and tells us what's wrong with the game, and they usually have no idea what they're talking about
22:29 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, i havent ran it through the profiler
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> you strike me as being pretty competent, so I'm wondering if you've actually got some evidence, or if you're one of those guys with a kid brother...
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: when's the last time you profiled it? Is it just that one time that I posted on the forums?
22:30 <Ringwraith`> nah, its just stuff ive noticed from user observation, i havent actually sat down to look into a lot of detail as to what exactly is going on at this point
22:30 <Ringwraith`> ive been playing around the source trying to figure it out for awhile
22:30 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: no, i didn't profile it since
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> better look closer, then. :) last profiler told us where most of the cpu time was going, and it wasn't rendering or network traffic :)
22:30 <Ringwraith`> and trying to comprehend all that stuff takes a lot of neuron processing
22:30 <wrtlprnft> although i should for the font system
22:31 <wrtlprnft> actually 15% or so went into sparks, which is ridiculous
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> nah, just post it and say "I don't know how to read this" and someone will help. actually, z-man gave a very good post that helps a lot to understand profiler output
22:31 <Ringwraith`> now the font system i could slap in the freetype libs to make that look better i *think*
22:31 <wrtlprnft> some other big part went into the HUD map
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's right, sparks. that's where it all was. :)
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> knock yourself out. which freetype library were you planning on using?
22:31 * Lucifer_arma nudges wrtlprnft
22:31 <Ringwraith`> freetype2
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> have you been working off a recent cvs checkout?
22:31 <nemostultae> you may want to check cvs
22:31 <Ringwraith`> get some nice ttf fonts in it
22:32 <wrtlprnft> uh, err
22:32 <wrtlprnft> check out CVS HEAD
22:32 * Lucifer_arma looks for the kid brother
22:32 <wrtlprnft> and look what it's using
22:32 <Ringwraith`> Lucifer_arma, nah, ive just been brainstorming and learning about the nitty gritty of the game
22:32 <Ringwraith`> cool
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> better start with cvs head. You'll need ftgl to build it, though.
22:32 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=300
22:32 <wrtlprnft> all freetype
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's beautiful. *wipes tear* I love our new freetype font.
22:33 <Ringwraith`> it will now be great to tell a U from a v! w00t!
22:33 <wrtlprnft> depends on the font you use :P
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's hard to tell with the canadian font
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> so who wants to write the font resource dtd?
22:33 <Ringwraith`> well it wont be the current released font
22:34 <Ringwraith`> i hate that damn thing
22:34 <Ringwraith`> lol
22:34 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i think that DTD should include a bit more than just one font
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft did all the hard work of drawing the currnt font in a font program, so the old bitmapped font is history, afaik.
22:34 <wrtlprnft> it should offer a way to get different fonts for different sizes
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: sure. I ws thinking it should be more like a "fonts" dtd. :)
22:35 <wrtlprnft> uh, it's still there
22:35 <wrtlprnft> FONT_TYPE 0, if it makes you happy
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> still used?
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> so not dead yet, ok.
22:35 <wrtlprnft> but it looks even crappier than befor
22:35 <wrtlprnft> e
22:35 <wrtlprnft> once there's unicode support the old font will be gone
22:35 <wrtlprnft> so enjoy it while you can
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> you won't hold it against me if I prefer the ttf font, will you?
22:36 -!- Ringwraith` [i=debian-t@tor/session/external/x-9f55abaa44d8c757] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:36 <wrtlprnft> no i won't
22:36 <wrtlprnft> the ttf font has everything the old font head
22:37 * wrtlprnft loves how irssi hilights all messages that contain wrtl, font, hud, xml or cockpit
22:37 * Lucifer_arma wonders who Ringwraith actually was
22:37 <wrtlprnft> ask SuPeRTaRD
22:37 <wrtlprnft> looks like he'd know
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> hey, it's done with kdebase, now it's on kdeutils
22:38 <wrtlprnft> :P
22:38 <wrtlprnft> kdenetwork is yet to come
22:38 <wrtlprnft> and all its friends
22:39 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:39 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:40 <wrtlprnft> creepy how quiet the wiki is now...
22:40 * wrtlprnft is off to bed now, really
22:41 <nemostultae> maybe the Anarchic wanderers got a forum.
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> heh
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> so what packages should be on an armagetronad-dedicated server?
22:42 * Lucifer_arma suspects nemo of wanting ruby
22:43 <nemostultae> yea, that would be good.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> ok, here's a page
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.net/packages/
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> I've already got basic and common sets put in, and apache, php, python, and now ruby.
22:44 <nemostultae> This is just a boot-cd, right?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> I don't have any idea if dependencies are satisfied
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> what I'm putting together right now is just an installation cd
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> liveCD's are a little more involved, but possible
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm not going to try to build it until I've got Crystal Linux going on my other partition, I need to build and test the armagetronad-dedicated package.
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> but I did successfully build the test of my carlinux distribution and run it in qemu, ran through the installer and stuff
22:47 <nemostultae> add sqlite3 to it, that's a useful tool
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> done
22:48 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
22:49 <n54> Lucifer_arma: I have no idea why Mexicans eat tamales for Christmas :)
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> n54: so they have something to unwrap
22:55 <n54> hmm *thinks he gets it*
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> heh, it's one of the more tasteless jokes. :) I told it to the guys that ran the tamale stand at the farmer's market, though. They usually set up next to us, we were good friends.
22:57 <n54> the swimming, running, jumping one is better
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is. It's also funnier in light of the current immigration debate. :)
22:58 * Lucifer_arma told you that joke because he ate tamales for dinner tonight.
22:58 * n54 has never eaten a tamale
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> good stuff. I'm not a big fan of cornbread, but tamales are good.
22:59 <n54> now you make me want to make tacos
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> it's basically cornbread stuffed with some spicy meat of some sort, wrapped in a corn husk, and baked
22:59 <n54> :D :S
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> man, back when I worked at Sonic, one of the girls there (Mexican girl), her mom used to make these kick-ass tamales and go sell them in front of a grocery store
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> she'd bring us the leftovers. They were really good.
23:00 * n54 is going to make chop suey again today, quick & dirty chop suey n54 style :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> she also made a killing selling them
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh
23:00 <n54> :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> isn't chop suey the dish that some chinese immigrant dreamed up for his miner boss in california?
23:00 <n54> no idea
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> so it's not actually a native china dish, but one that was created in america?
23:00 <n54> let's got to wikipedia and see if it says anything about it :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chop_suey
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> many stories about its origin, apparently
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.snopes.com/food/origins/chopsuey.asp
23:02 <n54> all I know it's supergood :) I simply fry meatstrips and strips of pepper and put the little bag of sauce on and make noodles on the side and put it all onto the noodles in the end and mix up :D (I said it was quick & dirty lol)
23:04 <n54> it's obvious I'm _not_ making american style chop suey that's for sure ^^
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> she was riding in Shanghai after World War II and spotted a neon sign that read: "Genuine American Chop Suey Served Here."
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> I've never eaten it, and never seen it on a menu, to be honest
23:05 <n54> me neither, at least not what's described at the wikipedia
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> but I suppose if you go with the "odds and ends" definition, I've come close to making it, I just usually use rice
23:06 <n54> I think I've had it at a chinese restaurant here in oslo but that was more similar to what I'm making than what's on wikipedia
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> still working out noodles, but I got egg spaghetti noodles together for a chow mein of sorts one time
23:06 <n54> I love asian noodles, yumyum is my favourite brand (cheap & thai iirc)
23:07 * Lucifer_arma makes it a point to eat ethnic foods only in places where the particular ethnicity has a large immigrant population
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> yumyum rules! :)
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's waaay better than that Ramen shit
23:07 <n54> well there's lots of chinese and vietnamese in norweay :) (and indians and pakistani and so on)
23:07 <n54> yes! :D
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> of course, i could go for even some of that ramen shit right now. My tamale dinner was small; I'm still hungry.
23:08 <n54> I can buy a box of 50 yumyum packs (all the same of course) for about 50 NOK downtown :)
23:08 <n54> #g 50 nok to USD
23:08 <armabot> n54: 50 Norwegian kroner = 8.2072 U.S. dollars
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> that stuff is definitely dirt cheap
23:08 <n54> yup :D
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> which makes it a superior alternative to ramen :)
23:09 <n54> absolutely and it's way more spicy than anything else I've come across :)
23:09 * Lucifer_arma wonders how long before he can convert NOK to USD in his head
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> it's damn spicy for a dry soup mix
23:09 * n54 adds the dpice & stuff after draining the water not before - I seldom eat it soup style
23:09 <n54> yup :)
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I usually eat it soup style. not very creative with it, I must admit.
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I was shocked by it the first time I ate it. I didn't expect it to bite at all. It's not terribly spicy still, all things considered, but it still amazed me.
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I guess years of bland ramen noodles conditioned me to expect more of the same.
23:10 <n54> it might be because i associate soup stule with adding hard-boiled egss and a little meat or prawn and so on (sometimes I do those things and still usually avoid the soup) :)
23:10 <n54> :)
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> and the stuff's really imported. I think. They may ahve started up local factories, but whenever I first encountered it it was import. Ramen isn't, it's made here.
23:11 <n54> fried eggs and friend chopped bacon etc. goes superbly with a few packets of yumyum (but it's not exactly health food that way lol)
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> haha
23:11 <n54> afaik all yumyum is made in thailand
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> never enough around for me to experiment. :(
23:11 <n54> :)
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I'd probably like it more if I knew for sure it was eaten in thailand, not just made there for stupid white people
23:13 <n54> I first came across it in singapore, lots of people eat it there
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> ah, well then, that's good enough for me. :)
23:13 <n54> and it's sold in a vietnamese store here in oslo (I always got o the same one)
23:13 <n54> so I think it's genuine :)
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> I just get sick of foods being watered down for white people. I want the genuine article, always. Don't even waste my time with an imitation that assumes I can't eat it because my grandmother's anglo.
23:14 <n54> yup
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's not sold in mainstream grocery stores here, but in the alternative ones, like whole foods
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> or central market, which is a Texas thing
23:14 <n54> it's kind of weird because lots of european food is very spicy too
23:14 <n54> sounds smart
23:15 <n54> we have that some places in norway too, usually smaller places; "torg"
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> well, my grandmother might be anglo, but my half-italian dad eats pickled peperroncinis
23:15 <n54> :)
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> and I myself will likely develop ulcers because I love spicy mexican food
23:16 <n54> I've probably said it before but: hungarian dried peppers are very nice :)
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you have. :) Unavailable here, afaik.
23:16 <n54> here too :S
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> at least, not in a form I'd trust. No hungarian immigrant population.
23:16 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> that pretty much restricts me to mexican food, since the other immigrant populations in the area are generations-deep, ie no new immigrants.
23:17 <n54> it might not be a purely hungarian thing, I've just not come across it anywhere else
23:17 <n54> well mexican food is nice so that's not really a problem:)
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, hungarian food has some...interesting spices
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I only know it from cookbooks...
23:18 <n54> I was a kid when I was there so I don't really know much about it
23:18 * Lucifer_arma has just remembered the greatest italian restaurant in texas is here in Austin
23:18 <n54> :)
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> imagine, in Austin of all places, an italian restaurant where the waiters speak broken english :)
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's no italian immigrant population here! none!
23:19 <n54> recently they've begun selling something called pancione at local 7-11 here, ever tasted that?
23:19 <n54> huh, guess they're at the east coast?
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> better describe it. I ate so much weird italian food as a kid that I never picked up names for.
23:20 <deja_vu_> hey *.*
23:20 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_Vu
23:20 -!- deja_Vu is now known as deja_vu
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> and my dad bitches we didn't eat enough because we were so far from his family
23:20 <n54> hmm it's sort of like a baked closed pizza that thinks it's a sandwich :)
23:20 <n54> hi deja-vu :)
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> I've eaten something like that. :) NOt sure it's not an american invention, though.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> hi deja_vu
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> have i seen you before?
23:21 <n54> only it's not tomato-based but has a salty butter something and cheese and a bit of pork
23:21 <deja_vu> http://www.towelday.kojv.net/ <- muha
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> tomorrow, isn't it?
23:22 * Lucifer_arma has been running the Towel Day banner on his website since December
23:22 <n54> in europe it's today :)
23:22 <deja_vu> oh
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> :)
23:22 <deja_vu> hehe
23:22 <n54> I'm not a bit fan of him but perhaps I should wear a towel when shopping food *gets arrested for public indecency*
23:22 <n54> XD
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh
23:23 <deja_vu> xD
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> come on, if it weren't for Douglas Adams, the brits would be stuck with Shakespeare as their only worthwhile artistic contribution!
23:23 -!- anjori [n=anonymou@S0106000b6a63b1e4.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
23:23 <deja_vu> wearing just a towel would be an interesting variation ;)
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> you'd have to wear it around your head, though, so nobody would be able to see you're naked
23:24 <n54> lol
23:24 <n54> my kid half-brother used to think like that :)
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> sounds like a froopy frood
23:25 * Lucifer_arma goes to rifle around the pantry for some food
23:25 <n54> what's a froopy frood? :)
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> someone who knows where his towel is
23:28 <n54> ok :)
23:39 <n54> on british authors; read any terry pratchett?
23:39 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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Log from 2006-05-25:
--- Day changed Thu May 25 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> no, no terry pratchett, sorry
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> but I just read the wikipedia page on vicente fox, and I gotta say I like the guy
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> I hope his successor will continue in the same vein as he, even if the particulars aren't identical, and doesn't just close up the work he did
00:01 -!- anjori [n=anonymou@S0106000b6a63b1e4.vc.shawcable.net] has quit []
00:17 <n54> hmm ok I'll have to check that out later (still away)
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> alright, dug up lee's email address, we'll see if he bites on the rock article
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> if not, hmmm, Linux Journal was the other one that pays well. I'll try them next, and if not them, then LWN. After that, I guess no bites, that exhausts my contacts.
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> There is Dr. Dobbs, but they didn't buy my wxPython article, and they're programming, not general Linux.
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.tkb.org/Home.jsp
00:36 <n54> hmm there's tons of linux magazines around though, perhaps just google "linux magazine/magasine" and mail away? (still away hehe - one foot outside the door)
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> we'll see. I just queried newsforge, I need to wait for them to say yay or nay
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> why don't font pickers have a browse button? I want to load a font from my filesystem, not a system font.
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> brb
00:51 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:52 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> I should screenshot this, I've got armagetronad for my font now :)
01:43 <n54> I've read the wiki page on fox now, he has done more good stuff than I was aware of but I still harbour some doubts about him
01:43 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:43 <n54> tkb.org looks interesting
01:43 <n54> good morning z-man :)
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> that's interesting. There's a fork in ROCK's past, and it's possible the fork has vitality and the original is dying
01:52 <n54> huh
01:52 <n54> name or link?
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, I just closed the tab
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> the name is t2
01:55 <n54> np found it :) http://www.t2-project.org/
01:55 <n54> wow possibly hurd and obsd too
03:00 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> I hate evasive answers to direct questions
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> if I wanted an evasive answer, I'd have asked an evasive question
04:23 <n54> ?
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> I asked "are you a cathedral or a bazaar?"
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh, we're too small to really be either"
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> !?! Only if you have 1 developer and no visible userbase are you too small for that.
04:24 <n54> whoever probably didn't understand the quetion
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> no, he understood. I'm leaving out the rest of the conversation for brevity. I'll give you the possibility, but he seemed pretty familiar with the concepts.
04:25 <n54> huh strange reply then
04:25 * guru3 had the "prom" last night
04:25 <n54> :D
04:26 <guru3> it 'twere funky
04:26 <n54> )
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> funky
04:27 <guru3> stayed from 18:30 to 2am
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> tell it like it is, man
04:27 <guru3> didn't stay until the finnish at 3am :/
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> fire rages where I walk. A mini-argument started up on #rocklinux, and now a mini-argument's starting up on #t2
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> can I get one started here?
04:29 <guru3> no
04:29 <guru3> be quiet
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> where's Luke-Jr when you need an argument to be fulfilled?
04:31 <n54> how come there's arguments? what do you ask? :)
04:32 <guru3> i've got ~200 picutres to fix red eye on
04:32 <n54> lol guru3
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, I wanted to know why ROCK only has 4 developers with commit access when that represents half of the permanent core team
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> and the two developers there started arguing
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> on t2 I asked if they'd take python code, and one guy said no, and another said "system is more important than the parts, python is allowed"
04:33 <n54> uh-oh you're a Distro Destroyer! X|
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> I am.
04:33 <n54> heh :)
04:33 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciKillsdistros
04:33 -!- LuciKillsdistros is now known as LuciKillsDistros
04:33 <LuciKillsDistros> for an encore, I'm a go join the #ubuntu channel
04:33 <n54> "Eats" :)
04:33 <n54> lol
04:33 -!- LuciKillsDistros is now known as LuciEatsDistros
04:34 <n54> :)
04:34 -!- LuciEatsDistros is now known as Lucifer_arma
04:37 -!- spidey_ [i=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> there's another thing. I asked why they forked, and got an evasion
04:40 <Lucifer_arma> they're nice guys, but they're evading the stuff that seems to matter somewhere
04:44 <Lucifer_arma> rock's got kde 3.5 at least
04:50 <guru3> 224 pictures in total :(
04:51 <Lucifer_arma> there's a gimp fork that does what you want, I forget what it's called
04:52 <Lucifer_arma> but it'll do batch processing on pictures
04:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: ...
04:56 <Lucifer_arma> WHAT?!?!?!?
04:57 <Luke-Jr> goodnight :)
04:57 <Luke-Jr> Sat, some friends and I will be watching X-Men 1, 2 & 3 in sequence :)
04:59 <Luke-Jr> oh well, you're time's up to argue with me over that
04:59 <Luke-Jr> your*
04:59 <Luke-Jr> 'night
04:59 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
04:59 <Luke-Jr> =p
05:00 <Luke-Jr> PS: X-Men is actually anti-evolutionism if you discard the intro/extro crap
05:00 <Luke-Jr> bye
05:00 <n54> hehe cya Luke :)
05:00 <Lucifer_arma> ah, finally, direct answers.
05:00 <Lucifer_arma> Unfortunately I had to go to the guy who forked. But he gave the direct answers.
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> very direct, very detailed. Sweet. :)
05:01 <n54> so why did they fork?
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> because rock's lead is a control freak.
05:01 <n54> define control freak
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> so he's not willing to extend trust to other developers, he has to carefully examine everything they do. And he's very unforgiving of little things,
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> like typos.
05:02 <n54> :o
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> won't give reasons that are detailed enough to actually fix a patch you submitted, and requires everything go through submaster.
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> He wrote a paper and probably did some serious academic work on his submaster, and has the stodgy professor attitude towards it.
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> submaster looks like a really awesome tool for working with developers that aren't in the core, like third party extenders, or just people who've come in out of nowhere and want to submit patches.
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> but you still take patches on the forums, in email, or wherever they show up, review them, and then commit them if you like them.
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> so anyway, his attitudes and his need to control the svn trunk created a huge insurmountable bottleneck.
05:05 <n54> I see
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> So this other guy tried to change that and was flatly rejected. His only option was to fork.
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> http://svn.exactcode.de/big.png <--- comparison of svn activity of the two projects since the fork
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> and now I see that people in rock are willing to help with all the little things but evade the big questions. People in t2 are answering the big questions.
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> draw your own conclusion. :)
05:06 <n54> :)
05:08 * Lucifer_arma is checking out t2 now
05:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: sounds like Linux
05:11 <Luke-Jr> Linus reads virtually everything committed
05:11 <Luke-Jr> but I'm going to bed... >.>
05:11 <n54> sleep well Luke
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to bed soon, too. after I get the t2 build started. who knows? Maybe I'll be installing an os finally, soon.
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> old version?
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> what's current?
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> no shit? how long ago was that?
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, this armagetron font is neat, but it's really hurting my eyes
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, this font's better
05:34 <n54> I've heard people speak nicely of the terminus font
05:34 <n54> for terminal use etc.
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> I liked the old font I had, I just wnated to use the armagetronad font. :)
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'm back to the old font, which I like just fine
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> oh boy, t2 builds with gcc 4.1. Rock built with 4.0
05:41 -!- spidey_ [i=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:41 <n54> :)
05:43 <n54> yeah
05:45 <n54> :)
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> I have a card that lets me put 4 more hard drives in my server
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> some day I'll dig it out of the box it's in because I'll need it. :)
05:58 <n54> an ide card? some day I'm going to make a fileserver and that's probably what I'll end up using :)
05:59 * n54 has lots of old hd's lying around
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's an ide card. Nice card, Promise Technologies. I got it because I was putting a 60GB hard drive on a motherboard that only saw 30GB of it.
06:00 <n54> ah
06:00 <n54> nice info - never thought of that but might get in the same situation soon
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> "The group believes the casualties in Iraq are a sign of God's anger at US tolerance of homosexuality."
06:06 <n54> ;_; ... but then again I believe god loves diversity so... *puts fingers in ears* "lalalalala" XD
06:07 <n54> that about sums up all my different emotions on that topic ;D
06:07 <n54> except the really ugly ones :|
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> that just strikes me as a really fanatic attitude. People just love to hate each other, don't they?
06:09 <n54> yes some people couldn't survive without it, sad but true
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> "The Kansas church group, led by the Rev Fred Phelps, has been involved in picketing funerals, carrying placards with messages such as "God Hates Fags". "
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> I think God probably hates Kansas church groups.
06:10 <n54> yeah I've heard about it / read about a month ago or something like that :S
06:12 <n54> actually, however strange it sounds I don't think "he" hates anyone or anything, it probably knows every tiny detail of how they managed to become so warped and as such understands "them" (although there's no approval in that, just understanding and perhaps comfort, love etc.)
06:12 <n54> <- a certain amount of hippie flavour believe it or not XD
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> nah, he hates Norwegians too
06:12 <n54> lol :D
06:13 <Lucifer_arma> I don't care if God hates fags or what Kansas church groups think, it's downright rude to picket a funeral.
06:13 <n54> yup I'd beat them up - plain and simple
06:13 <n54> <-- the other side of me
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> no shit. All grief-stricken, that could be my own brother! (well, not really, but you get the idea)
06:14 <n54> absolutely
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wade through them laying hands all about.
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> arms, whatever. That's stick-work, it is, and bloody business.
06:14 <n54> yes
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> won't be no kansas church group hating homosexuals left when I'm done, they come picketing my funeral.
06:16 <n54> the bad part is i'd probably not stop at beating them up so it's a good thing I'm nowhere close to them
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> My zombified corpse will rise up and eat their brains
06:16 <n54> :D
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> I hope they get a plague of locusts for hating fags, to tell you the truth.
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> Zappa has that song Jesus thinks you're a jerk :)
06:16 <n54> I hope they just stop
06:16 <n54> never heard that one but I like Zappa :)
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> the article is about congress passing a law to stop them
06:16 <n54> good
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't stop the protests, it just makes them go out and be polite. That kind of law shouldn't be passed, really.
06:16 <n54> hmm ok it doesn't ban harassing funerals?
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> and it only applies to federal sites
06:16 <n54> with some hefty fines & jailtime too?
06:17 <n54> hmpf
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't ban harassing funerals, it just makes them do it from a distance.
06:17 <n54> *sigh*
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5015690.stm
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like the idea of telling people not to protest, to be honest, no matter how stupid the protestors are
06:17 <n54> I don't really want to read it, not right now at least :S too depressing
06:17 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm having a hard time getting mad at congress over it, more like the kansas church group that created the problem.
06:18 <n54> well they can do it somewhere more relevant, let mourning families alone I say (no matter who they are, military personal, average joe, or terrorists)
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> exactly!
06:18 <n54> yeah I can agree ont hat
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> we should sic PANTS on them
06:19 <n54> pants?
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> fortress player that lives in kansas :)
06:19 * n54 is wearing his pants
06:19 <n54> oh ok :)
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> PANTS|gaywad| :)
06:19 <n54> what a name lol
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> he's cool. I like him, anyway.
06:19 <n54> ok :)
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'll admit he's not the most popular player
06:20 <Lucifer_arma> and he's not homosexual either, he's just irritated with all the homophobia there is in arma lately
06:20 <n54> kansas... I wonder if they have signs when you leave kansas that say "somhow you know you're not in kansas any more..." ? ^^
06:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha. No. :(
06:20 <n54> yeah I can understand that, homophobia is annoying
06:21 <n54> :)
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh, he's got an instant chat "Quick! Somebody! Fuck me in my bottom!"
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> it's a fake teamchat, so it looks like a teamchat but everybody sees it.
06:22 <n54> lol
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> So I made my "I'm all over it!" chat, also a fake teamchat. But he hasn't hit his since I made mine. should be entertaining when the two finally line up. :)
06:23 <n54> haha
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> I've got a "That was so heterosexual!" chat, where heterosexual is pink. :) I use it wherever people say "That ws gay", obviously.
06:24 <n54> :)
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> had a guy chasing me trying to kill me because he thought I was gay.
06:24 <n54> some people lack priorities in life :|
06:26 <n54> anyway I hope you core-dumped him ^^
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> I did. a few times. In fact, it finally ran him off the server.
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> what's IED?
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> #acronym IED
06:29 <n54> improvised explosive device usually
06:29 <n54> manual-speak :)
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> ack, what an ass
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> the guy in the picture has two signs, one that says "God is your enemy" and one that says "Thank God for IEDs"
06:30 <n54> :(
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> he wouldn't think that if some fag came along and blew himself up in his church
06:30 <n54> yeah
06:33 <n54> what kind of amazes me is that while people are free to do stuff like that and other things some people still claim the US isn't a free society
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> s/God/Satan and let's see what happens
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> better yet, go out and march with a sign that says "God is dumb and so are you"
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> it's a free society if you're Protestant
06:36 <n54> ok so more average people see them as loons? although I have problems accepting that most protestants or whatever don't see the god-jerks as loons too
06:37 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't say that, and clearly congress is willing to take action against them
06:37 <Lucifer_arma> but if they had signs that said "You died because Satan hates you", there wouldn't have been a law, they would have been slaughtered by the funeral-goers
06:38 <Lucifer_arma> or had their houses firebombed or what-have-you
06:38 <n54> not so sure, it seems the same to me
06:38 <Lucifer_arma> government respecting rights is only part of having a free society
06:38 <n54> well I was thinking about the government levels though, because that's what people are usually referring to
06:39 <Lucifer_arma> when I tell people I don't believe in god, many get all scared. If I tell people I'm a satanist, the reaction is quite different. Not scared. Hated, maybe, but not scared.
06:39 <Lucifer_arma> government looks the other way unless you make it an issue.
06:40 <n54> well you might not know it but a lot of people doing a lot of shit have called themselves satanists
06:40 <Lucifer_arma> I could go into a whole diatribe on it, having lived in this country all my life with most of it under no religion
06:40 <Lucifer_arma> my point is that people fear a lack of belief more than they fear devil-worshipping
06:40 <Lucifer_arma> atheists are lower than dirt around here
06:40 <n54> oh ok that didn't come across to me - sorry
06:41 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the diatribe will have to wait, I'm going to bed
06:41 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
06:41 <n54> cya :)
06:41 * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
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06:45 <philippeqc> hi
06:45 <n54> hi :)
06:47 <n54> you're doing ok?
06:55 <philippeqc> yes
06:56 <philippeqc> and you
06:56 <philippeqc> vacation day
06:56 <n54> yeah same here :) doing ok
06:57 <philippeqc> good to ear
07:00 <n54> :)
07:00 <philippeqc> I have finally a bit of time to waste on the project ;)
07:02 <n54> cool :)
07:02 <philippeqc> yes, but my brain is half fried from the abuses of yesterday's evening.
07:03 <n54> party? :)
07:03 <philippeqc> if only.... played computer games till late in the night, a glass of wine in my hand...
07:03 <n54> ah.. :)
07:03 <philippeqc> I sleep as good as if I went partying ;)
07:03 <philippeqc> slept
07:04 <n54> hehe :)
07:05 <philippeqc> yes
07:05 <philippeqc> and now I need to tackle subversion, a few new topics on the forum, and jump back into code 2 weeks old.
07:05 <philippeqc> (yes I know I'm whining with my belly full ;) )
07:06 <n54> lol well it doesn't sound that tempting ;)
07:08 <philippeqc> humm, there might be wisdom in your answer. Should I give my mind a day off, or should I bend it to the task
07:09 <n54> don't listen to me, :)
07:11 <philippeqc> why shouldnt I? Often advices from people saying "dont listen to me" are much more valuable than that from people saying "You should do x"
07:13 <n54> true but well you decide :)
07:14 <philippeqc> I think I'll call the help of Mr Cafeine
07:15 <n54> :D
07:19 <Lucifer_arma> you should give your mind a day off, that would be best
07:19 <Lucifer_arma> :)
07:19 * Lucifer_arma has a loose definition of sleep
07:20 <philippeqc> yeah, I know I probably should, but when I see all that you guys do on the forum... I feel I'm barely trailling behind.
07:20 * Lucifer_arma demonstrates reverse psychology :)
07:21 <philippeqc> 'ya didnt need that comment to elinst the guilt that was already gluing me to the screen
07:23 <n54> lol :)
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> rock, newsforge bit
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> both on the rock article and on the car computer :)
07:25 * Lucifer_arma dances the Dance of Joy
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> freelancing rules :)
07:25 <philippeqc> Perfect Strangers' dance of Joy?
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> mmm, more like the Wind of the Great Country's Dance of Time, but less deadly
07:26 <n54> congrats :)
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> but I could do the Perfect stranger's one, that's a good dance too :)
07:26 <philippeqc> Dont know that one... must have been too deadly to leave anyone to tell me about it.
07:26 <n54> looking forward to reading them
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, but you must read the belisarius series from the baen free library
07:26 * n54 only does James Brown inspired stuff
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> all's I need to write the rock article (which is now a t2 article) is a working installation
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> then build the car computer, and I can write the second article :)
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> collect a few hundred dollars and move on, right?
07:27 <n54> :)
07:27 <philippeqc> I should really introduce my gf to you lucifer... for book talking purpose
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> haha, ok.
07:29 * Lucifer_arma notices that two of the three participants in this conversation are marked 'away'.
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> we're probably both sleeping, too.
07:29 <n54> yeah I have a loose definition of away ;)
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> :)
07:29 <n54> lol nah I'm not right now :)
07:29 <n54> but I'm not really here, not primarily so.. :)
07:30 <philippeqc> a sing you spend to much time on the computer is when you dream on IRC
07:30 <n54> :)
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> *sign
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> sure it's not when you start correcting other people's spelling?
07:30 <philippeqc> oups
07:30 <n54> anyone can be tempted to the dark side ;P
07:30 <philippeqc> naaa
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> what's libcss?
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> is that a dvd library?
07:31 <n54> yes
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> :(
07:31 <philippeqc> (half pulling it off my ass) an extention for libxml to parse css?
07:31 * Lucifer_arma was hoping it was a css parser
07:32 <n54> you thought it was - ah yes you did :)
07:32 <philippeqc> libxtl I'd say
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> now I really think philippe needs a day off
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> * Internal error: Failed to include file "libxtl.h"
07:33 <Lucifer_arma> is that a real library?
07:33 <philippeqc> my 7 year old neighbor is there with a friend to play on the computer
07:33 <philippeqc> I'll have to reboot to windows
07:33 <philippeqc> see you later
07:33 <n54> cya :)
07:33 <Lucifer_arma> "eXecutable Temporal Language"
07:33 <Lucifer_arma> later philippeqc
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07:47 <wrtlprnft_> somehow my laptop started crashing every morning at exactly the time i open it
07:47 <n54> hum strange & hi :)
07:47 <wrtlprnft_> hi :)
07:48 <wrtlprnft_> Lucifer_arma changes distributions every day it seems
07:48 <n54> :)
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> apparently so, heh
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> this time I changed before I even finished building the last one
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> which makes it twice I changed before the last one ws finished building
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> next I'll change before this one even finishes downloading
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'll have my LFS system built by then :)
07:55 * Lucifer_arma monologues
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> but hey, I scored the article that justifies spending so much time on it
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> you kids just getting started in the world need to seriously consider freelancing. don't buy that "work for one company and collect a pension" bullshit
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> JJ Jameson said it all when he said "Freelance, it's the best kind of work for a kid your age"
07:57 * Lucifer_arma is always a little high when he scores new work
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> think how annoying I'd be if I still did freelance writing all the time
07:58 <Lucifer_arma> I needed a break from all this mambo stuff anyway
07:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's been dragging me down
07:58 <n54> :)
07:58 * Lucifer_arma wishes he could dream up a way to get paid to code arma
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> download's done, the build has started
08:01 * Lucifer_arma needs a distribution-building cluster now
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> after I get this on my server and laptop, I'm gonna have to set it up for distcc
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14:02 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:17 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
14:18 * z-man is really away
14:18 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
14:18 * z-man hides behind towel
14:18 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
14:19 <z-man> persistent today, eh?
14:19 <z-man> what is it?
14:19 <Luke-Jr> so what's the timeframe for Svn?
14:19 <z-man> I posted about it :)
14:19 <z-man> If you want, we can still do it this weekend
14:19 <Luke-Jr> o
14:19 <Luke-Jr> when this weekend?
14:20 <z-man> your sunday?
14:20 <z-man> I have to fix belenus' bug and commit and merge it
14:20 <Luke-Jr> sounds ok
14:20 <z-man> can't make it clean in a hurry
14:20 <Luke-Jr> should get those rearrangement steps finalized ;)
14:21 <z-man> So, calculating the UTC time and warn everyone 48 hours ahead is your job :)
14:21 <Luke-Jr> hm ok
14:21 <Luke-Jr> EVERYONE PLEASE NOTE
14:21 <z-man> err, on the forum?
14:21 <z-man> :)
14:22 <Luke-Jr> IN 48 HOURS OR WHEN Z-MAN IS READY (whichever is later), CVS IS DOWN
14:22 <Luke-Jr> hehe
14:22 <Luke-Jr> =p
14:22 <z-man> I will be ready by your sunday
14:22 <z-man> just pick a time that's convenient for you and fix it
14:23 <z-man> Of course, if the conversion is mostly automatic stuff that runs a while, doing it on a less busy weekday may be better.
14:23 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
14:23 <z-man> I don't know how much of it all is automated.
14:23 <z-man> Your call.
14:23 <Luke-Jr> what's busy?
14:24 <z-man> I suspect there would regularly be more CVS commits on a sunday than on a monday.
14:24 <Luke-Jr> 3c is the only really automated step left
14:25 <Luke-Jr> honestly, Fri would be best for me
14:26 <z-man> But this friday is to early
14:26 <Luke-Jr> around 1a-3a
14:26 <z-man> Then make ot next friday?
14:26 <Luke-Jr> heh
14:26 <Luke-Jr> well, I have no clue what my schedule is for next week
14:27 <z-man> We promised to give a 48 hour warning, can't do it tomorrow.
14:27 <Luke-Jr> bla
14:27 <Luke-Jr> they don't need 48h
14:27 <Luke-Jr> they had like a week now already =p
14:28 <z-man> Well, I do
14:28 <Luke-Jr> aww, can't finish it today? =p
14:29 <z-man> No way, sorry
14:29 <Luke-Jr> o well
14:29 <z-man> Today is only two hours for me left :)
14:30 <Luke-Jr> so you going to be around Sun or do I need to figure out the weird CVS commit blocking codestuffs
14:30 <Luke-Jr> ?
14:30 <z-man> It's not weird :)
14:30 <Luke-Jr> If you say so
14:30 <z-man> I can give you write permissions to the file and tell you exactly what you need to commit to it.
14:30 <Luke-Jr> ok
14:31 <z-man> So you want to do it Sunday?
14:31 <Luke-Jr> ok
14:32 <Luke-Jr> depending on Mon's work schedule, I'll see if I can do it when people are sleeping
14:33 <z-man> Shouldn't you be sleeping then as well?
14:33 <Luke-Jr> depends on my work schedule ;)
14:34 <Luke-Jr> if I work Mon 10p-Tue 6a, likely I can be awake from Sun 10p-Mon 6a =p
14:34 <z-man> ok
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16:40 * n54 is wondering if he should fix box no.5
16:45 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit ["I'll sleep on it :) cya all"]
16:51 <SuPeRTaRD> where does user.cfg go on winNT/2k ?
16:53 <SuPeRTaRD> hmm
17:03 <SuPeRTaRD> found it n/m
17:28 <SuPeRTaRD> woot! i'm back on the grids
17:29 <SuPeRTaRD> wish i could find my user variable tho :// thot i found it but nothing changed
17:42 <SuPeRTaRD> freaky
17:42 <SuPeRTaRD> i just looked at every user.cfg on this computer & none of them are the current one i'm using..
17:43 * SuPeRTaRD is lost
19:29 -!- meh [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:30 -!- meh [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has left #armagetron ["Leaving"]
19:49 <Self_Destructo> notes
19:49 <Self_Destructo> none for me :)
20:18 <wrtlprnft_> no edit on the wiki for almost 48 hours now... so quiet...
20:19 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
20:40 <Lucifer_arma> we need a constitution, heh
20:44 * Lucifer_arma is back.
20:48 * wrtlprnft notices
20:49 * wrtlprnft is scared by Luke-Jr having write rights to CVSROOT :P
21:03 <deja_vu> o.o
21:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah, ot
21:04 <wrtlprnft> *it is scary
21:05 * wrtlprnft needs to find out a way to better distinguish his backspace key from the return key
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I edited the wiki for you. :)
21:08 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:09 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you need to learn a lot to become a good replacement for the spambots
21:09 <Lucifer_arma> I thought you didn't want spambots!
21:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:09 <wrtlprnft> what about contentbots?
21:10 <wrtlprnft> you know, bots that write really useful documentation all by themselves
21:10 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.174.125] has joined #armagetron
21:15 <wrtlprnft> looks like there's 7 different svn frontends for KDE... which one to choose?
21:15 <wrtlprnft> i took kdesvn for now, but I won't be able to see if it's any good till after the migrations
21:15 <wrtlprnft> -s
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> I use konsole :)
21:16 <wrtlprnft> i mean graphical ones
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> We could use a bot that takes doxygen api docs and posts them to the wiki.
21:17 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:17 <wrtlprnft> it would have to convert them to wiki format and upload all the images
21:18 <wrtlprnft> I think a link to http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy/ is better
21:21 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AEB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:21 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like reading doxy documentation that way, to be honest. I like it integrated into the other documentation.
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I'll take it however we can get it, but I think it would be nice to have it in the wiki directly :)
22:00 <Self_Destructo> spidey: hey, just clicked the link to upgrade to level 6 hypherspace engine
22:00 <Self_Destructo> will take 4 days
22:00 <Self_Destructo> to research
22:01 * wrtlprnft notices parallels between that game and those tamagochi things
22:02 <wrtlprnft> you can't just leave them alone for a week
22:02 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:02 <SD|away> well, i hope i don't have another hour overtime day tommorrow
22:02 <SD|away> cya'll
22:02 <wrtlprnft> night
22:02 <wrtlprnft> or whatever
22:02 <SD|away> wrtlprnft: I can leave this game alone for a week easily
22:03 <SD|away> haha
22:03 <SD|away> bye
22:03 <wrtlprnft> but a timespan of 4 days is a lot :P
22:03 <wrtlprnft> well, you could argue that armagetronad development is a big game as well
22:03 <wrtlprnft> even a simple discussion takes a month or so
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> does not
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> does too
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> does not
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> does too
22:05 <wrtlprnft> D:
22:06 <wrtlprnft> and then there's ocilloscope or whatever its name is...
22:06 <wrtlprnft> comes to every thread and tells you what you're discussing is just an useless gimmik and not worth it
22:07 <wrtlprnft> and then there's a post from him somewhere attacking me for making some suggestions
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> right, and when you tell him he's attacking people, "Don't hijack this thread!"
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, there is a reason I came to irc to talk development. :) seems like we're more productive when we talk development here than on the forums.
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> nevertheless, I think the game is improving at a respectable rate of speed, and getting good stuff to boot. :) There's a reason having a baby takes 9 months, you know.
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> Then it takes 18 years yadayada.
22:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, true. But some of those discussions on the forums are just awful
22:15 <wrtlprnft> like the whole resource thing
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> that is true. That's kinda why we have an Evil Triumvirate now. :)
22:15 <wrtlprnft> well, then, go and make a decision on the resources
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> it's made, check the wiki :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> like, format definitions on how resources are referring to each other and syntax stuff
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> what's left to be determined, anyway? There are implementation details that are left for people doing the implementation...
22:17 <wrtlprnft> probably won't be me to implement it right now :(
22:17 <wrtlprnft> too many things in the queue
22:17 <wrtlprnft> "stack overflow"
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=48461#48461 <--- here, sorta
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, there's no "yes, let's do it". The state it's in right now is if someone just did it, the code wouldn't be reverted. The tag name might change, but the code itself would stay.
22:19 <wrtlprnft> but the one who did it would be told how wrong he was for the rest of his life by Lucifer_arma
22:19 <wrtlprnft> *by Luke-Jr
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, then I'll do it sometime, if nobody gets to it. I'm like that big black ball in the Fifth Element, comments like that only make me stronger. :)
22:20 <wrtlprnft> haha
22:21 <wrtlprnft> one of you two should really change his name for easier tab complition
22:21 <wrtlprnft> what about Arma_lucifer?
22:21 <wrtlprnft> or no, forget it
22:21 <wrtlprnft> armabot is in the way
22:21 <wrtlprnft> uh, Jr-Luke?
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #whoisshe Jr-Luke
22:22 <armabot> Jr-Luke: vircuser is the girl for you!
22:24 <wrtlprnft> #whoisshe Jr-Luke
22:24 <armabot> Jr-Luke: Luke-Jr is the girl for you! Wedding on Mon Nov 18 16:05:07 2002
22:24 <wrtlprnft> 2002?! stupid thing
22:24 <wrtlprnft> i want a date in the FUTURE, of course!
22:27 <wrtlprnft> anyways
22:27 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:27 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:07 -!- Ringwraith` [n=gollum@tor/session/external/x-fe403f20eec157b6] has joined #armagetron
23:07 <Ringwraith`> yay
23:07 <Ringwraith`> im getting more info now
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> on what?
23:33 <Ringwraith`> i got the latest cvs head and fixed the code so i iterate through the nServerInfo objects
23:33 <Ringwraith`> im getting more detailed info but still no playername info
23:33 <Ringwraith`> fix the code i was writing to get a serverlist
23:36 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
Log from 2006-05-26:
--- Day changed Fri May 26 2006
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01:34 <Lucifer_arma> damn. It's not so easy to swtich from pyqt3 to pyqt4 :(
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> I almost think it would be better at this point to revert my attempt at pyqt4 and start fresh, copy and paste code as it makes sense to do so
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'll sit on it, I can revert at any time at this point.
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03:18 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
03:18 <philippeqc> hi
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> hi
03:22 <philippeqc> well, i got to play 3 hours of Age of Empire II yesterday with Hugo (my 7 year old neighborg)
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> did he beat you?
03:23 <philippeqc> we played on the same computer.
03:23 <philippeqc> and I was in charge of fixing things up when everythig when to hell ;)
03:24 <philippeqc> and general guidance (maybe you should build a new house if you want to support more troups)
03:25 <philippeqc> I'd really have some fun to play agains him, but I never really managed to convince him to. And the only worthy second computer that could be used is my gf's, and she is in high need of it.
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> right, reading all those baen books
03:27 <philippeqc> lol, and she is in charge of the web page at her school
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> man, those t2 guys are hypersensitive
03:37 * philippeqc is rereading the discussion about rock and t-2
03:38 <philippeqc> small step question: doesnt Mandriva have all the propriatory drivers in their paid "version"
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> yes
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> um, I think we can distribute the things with no problems from nvidia
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> the problem is that we'd be distributing a tainted kernel, violating the GPL for the kernel itself
03:39 <philippeqc> why cant we do the same thing? Or just have them in the same boot cd for the game?
03:39 <Lucifer_arma> it's a damned if we do, damned if we don't sort of thing
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> I like the idea of having it be a liveCD that works for some people, and then just including regular packages for Mac OS X and Windows that have the special edition artwork
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> so there's value for you, even if the liveCD component doesn't work out
03:40 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
03:41 * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> #g 645/907 * 100
03:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (645 / 907) * 100 = 71.1135612
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> yay, it's 71% finished building t2
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> and it hasn't even been running for a full 24 hours yet
03:44 <z-man> If my laptop would have been on 100% CPU load for that long, its fans would sound loke a smoker's cough :)
03:44 <philippeqc> but how does mandriva goes around the tainted kernel problem then?
03:44 <z-man> like
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh. The fans have been going pretty much nonstop for quite some time :)
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> I think mandriva just ignores the problem
03:44 <philippeqc> the idea of the Mac OS X and Windows special edition is great
03:45 <z-man> They hide behind dynamic linking, I guess
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> it's grey area when it's a module
03:45 <z-man> yeah
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> I think, but don't know for certain, that the binary only part of nvidia's kernel module is the same used on Windows
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> so that makes it independent of linux, i.e. it exists and is useable without linux
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> then the part that grafts it to linux is under a GPL-compatible license, afaik.
03:46 <z-man> Basically, yes. They have unified code.
03:46 <philippeqc> o ok! well that is a nice trick
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's entirely possible the lawyers will determine there's no violation for us, and afaik, nvidia doesn't care if we distribute it
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> it might not hurt to check if we can distribute it for pay on a cd like this. We wouldn't be selling the driver, after all.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> and it's only useful to people who *have* an nvidia card
03:48 <philippeqc> like me
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> me too :)
03:48 <philippeqc> so then it is all becoming possible
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> rock or t2, either one gets it for us. possible is no problem here.
03:49 <philippeqc> ok
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> and this thing is sweet. :) t2 has a few nice fixes to the build system that make it significantly better. I just can't wait to see the whole system. :)
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> basically we just make our own target. Then you take either the t2 release tarball or get it from svn, plug in our target and packages and build.
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> a minimal system to build the liveCD on my laptop will probably build in somewhere under 4 hours, at a guess. That's a conservative estimate,
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> it might well build in 2 hours.
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> an iso image comes out the other end
03:50 <philippeqc> wow
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> so, if we do it, do we make the special edition iso for download? That we make an iso for download there can be doubt, the question is will it include stock artwork or special edition artwork?
03:51 <z-man> The build would be incremental, right? You wouldn't rebuild GCC 9 times every time?
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> not 9 times, but it has to build 2-3 times to bootstrap
03:52 <z-man> The prime question about the special edition artwork is: can we get the artwork?
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and it is incremental, I think. rock worked incrementally to some extent, but it wasn't smooth. I assume but don't know for a fact that t2 has smoothed it out a bit
03:52 <z-man> We could try to recruit ed.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> I think we can get the artwork. In fact, I think we should try to get us a little artwork team on the development team
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> maybe give them an svn module to work in
03:53 <philippeqc> i see a problem with the special edition artwork: Those furnishing it will be interested into sharing the profit of the sale of the CD. Then the developer will feel robbed, as their contribution is freely distributed.
03:53 <philippeqc> And without monetary compensation, it can be semi tricky to get new artwork developped
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think we should accept artwork under those circumstances, but bringing them onto the development team addresses that issue
03:54 <philippeqc> yes, that would be a solution.
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> and, you know, there was some good artwork made for artemis that didn't make it into the release that came from developers
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> there's probably more where that came from :)
03:55 <philippeqc> we need to enable more dynamic changes in the artwork, and to support it from the map/css to make its distribution easier.
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> but to be honest, I think we should focus more on the server cd to start anyway. It's the lower hanging fruit, and it's a free download no matter what.
03:55 <philippeqc> That should lead to more interest in the artwork
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> and if we put out a server cd, then we've said "we can do this" and proved it :)
03:56 <z-man> Right. Go server!
03:56 <philippeqc> lucifer kinda eliminated my question.
03:57 * Lucifer_arma eats questions.
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> damn, boost takes awhile to build
03:57 <z-man> Yo've got a rich diet.
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> there are advantages to being an omnivore
03:57 <z-man> boost has a build?
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> heh, my daughter bitched about mosquitoes biting her. I told her to bite them back. She just stared for a few minutes.
03:58 <z-man> :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> Can't believe I still shock her.
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> == 03:30:05 =[5]=> Building develop/boost [1_33_1 2.2-trunk].
03:58 <z-man> I though boost was a template library mostlu
03:58 <z-man> hmm
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> gcc-C++-action bin/boost/libs/wave/build/libboost_wave.a/gcc/release/instantiate_defined_grammar.o
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that whole line only has 1 space in it
04:01 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
04:02 * Lucifer_arma politely greets n54
04:02 <n54> hi there :)
04:03 <philippeqc> hello
04:04 <Lucifer_arma> so, squat is the squat quality assurance team?
04:04 <z-man> yes
04:04 * Lucifer_arma doesn't really find recursive acronyms all that entertaining anymore
04:04 <z-man> no, me neither
04:04 <z-man> but it gives everyone the perfect excuse to make up alternative meanings
04:04 <Lucifer_arma> but I find acronyms that don't copletely resemble what they stand for very entertaining :)
04:05 <Lucifer_arma> which reminds me, I have to rename acme. There's already a program, I think it's a gnome program, named it
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> I was excited about being 71% finished until I saw how long it took boost to bild
04:07 <z-man> apropos squat: n54, seing you're on the Beta Testers list, would you be interested to join the about-to-be-created Quality Assurance Team?
04:07 <n54> I doubt that I'm qualified :)
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he just lurks on irc and doesn't play the game anymore
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> :P
04:08 <z-man> Bah, that can change :)
04:08 <n54> well I'ae planning to start playing again one of these days ;)
04:09 <n54> but quality assurance sounds somewhat heavy, what would it entail?
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> even so, since he's here so much, he can help turn bad bug reports into good bug reports
04:09 <z-man> exactly
04:09 <n54> hehe that I can do :) *nice to bugs' ;)
04:09 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: until very recently, I think anyone could write to CVSROOT
04:10 <Luke-Jr> z-man: you forgot to tell me what to edit, btw
04:10 <z-man> n54: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3621
04:10 * n54 checks link
04:10 <z-man> Luke-Jr: CVSROOT/avail
04:10 <z-man> You need to check out hte CVSROOT module
04:10 <z-man> there is the avail file
04:10 <z-man> saying:
04:10 <z-man> # Luke: remove comment here
04:11 <z-man> # unavail
04:11 <z-man> and you need to change that last line to
04:11 <Luke-Jr> ok
04:11 <Luke-Jr> heh
04:11 <z-man> unavail
04:11 <Luke-Jr> that'ss all?
04:11 <z-man> yes
04:11 <Luke-Jr> O.o
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> and we're done with cvs with this?
04:11 <z-man> If you delete all the following lines, you can block CVS forever for everyone :)
04:12 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: almost, 0.2.8.2 may see some CVS changes still
04:12 <z-man> but I'll merge those to SVN by hand.
04:12 <z-man> so for everything else, yes, CVS will be dead.
04:13 <Luke-Jr> BTW, we should still consider finding somewhere to host Svn other than SF
04:13 <Luke-Jr> Since sticking with SF for Svn, we lose the ability to manage our own hooks
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> btw we pretty much decided to go with darcs with svn backend, eh?
04:13 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: or Svn backend for now, at least
04:14 <Luke-Jr> This conversion is pretty much lossless, so we could even theoretically go somewhere else
04:14 <z-man> CVS Hooks were supported fine on SF, isn't that the case for SVN?
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> always a qualifier
04:14 <Luke-Jr> z-man: nope, SF won't let projects control Svn hooks
04:14 <Luke-Jr> z-man: except a few predefined ones
04:14 * z-man checks the site docs
04:14 <Luke-Jr> of which one is CIA, IIRC the only thing we use hooks for
04:15 <n54> heh you guys are trying to scare me away by giving me work aren't you? ^" on a serious note: 1. aren't you giving QA a bit too much power? 2. I'm the opposite of a speed demon and would be useless in such a position so I can't say yes
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> isn't qa's power to reasonably block releases until they stop sucking?
04:16 <n54> hmm ok
04:17 <n54> except I think devs should have the ultimate final say, but then again perhaps I read it a bit wrong
04:17 <Luke-Jr> z-man: the problem with svn:externals is that it doesn't allow relative links
04:17 <z-man> Luke-Jr: That's not a problem :)
04:17 <Luke-Jr> z-man: no?
04:18 <z-man> not for the usage case I gave.
04:18 <Luke-Jr> in *most* setups, anonymous Svn uses a different URI than developer Svn
04:18 <Luke-Jr> thus, a workspace would only work for developers or only for anon
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> yay, boost is done. Well, done building, now it's putting it into a binary package file
04:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: did you look at OE, BTW?
04:19 <n54> gnorty sounds like a good candidate for the QA team though
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I'm not sure what the problem is. Ultimate Final Say, imo, falls under "unreasonable block on release"
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: OE?
04:19 <Luke-Jr> n54: except that he's lax at testing stuff ;)
04:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: OpenEmbedded
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't, since embedded usually means cpus that we're not dealing with
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, I might have looked at it on my way to finding ROCK/t2
04:20 <n54> ok Luci & Luke
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> is it the one that's debian-based, but still lsb compliant?
04:21 <Lucifer_arma> uses alien to support rpm packages?
04:21 <z-man> Luke-Jr: well, workspaces are mostly for developers :) If they don't work for anon users, we'll give them a different workspace.
04:21 <n54> I might join sometime in the future when/if I get better :) anyway thanx for asking :)
04:21 <Lucifer_arma> n54: there also needs to be some synergy between qa and developers for it to work, in which case who gets the Ultimate Final say isn't relevant. :)
04:21 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: OpenEmbedded builds an OS image without the need to execute what it builds
04:22 <n54> yeah I guess you're right
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> since when is there a need to execute what is built?
04:22 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: You don't need to execute GCC? =p
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> GCC is for building. I don't understand what you're tlaking about. You need to bootstrap the build no matter what and get it free of the host system.
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> can't build an OS that depends on dynamic links to libraries on the host system, can you?
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> and you can't get around that step. gentoo only hides it, but you have to do it somehow.
04:25 <Luke-Jr> z-man: could you enable Svn on the project and make sure everyone relevant has Svn access?
04:25 <z-man> I probably should do that :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: openembedded is for handhelds, it looks like.
04:27 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: anyway, OE can build for diff arches, and produce disk images
04:27 <Luke-Jr> handhelds are one supported target
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> and how is that different from t2? :)
04:28 <Luke-Jr> no idea; mostly just mentioning/explaining what OE is in case you hadn't considered it
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> besides basic design decisions being made differently
04:29 <Luke-Jr> not even sure if we're talking about your car OS or AA livecd
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok. I hadn't, but it doesn't look like it'll be big enough
04:29 <Luke-Jr> big enough? O.o
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> whichever we're talking about, it's still desktop hardware and requires desktop hardware support, therefore desktop kernel
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> also, since it's desktop hardware, I'd prefer to avoid using stuff like dietlibc or one of the tiny X11 distributions
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> we've got the resources for a full-blown glibc and X.org.
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> but when embedded is your primary target, you go with dietlibc or uclibc and one of the really freaking small X11 distributions
04:30 * Luke-Jr looks at glibc_2.4.bb, "err.. what? =p"
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's kinda why, for my car computer anyway, I was rejecting any of the embedded os's
04:31 * Lucifer_arma notes that t2 has quite a few embedded targets as well
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> and it uses dietlibc for some of them. Hey, when you've only got 2MB of diskspace...
04:32 <Luke-Jr> hm... can t2 build KDE?
04:32 <Lucifer_arma> yes? would it be useful as a desktop distribution builder if it couldn't?
04:32 <Luke-Jr> ... link plz? (I'm guessing google won't do this one)
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> actually, google will. :) but I think it's http://www.t2-project.org/
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> their website is pretty sucky, though.
04:33 <Luke-Jr> well, I have tried many times to cross-compile KDE and failed miserably
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> what was your target?
04:33 <Luke-Jr> Zaurus Cxx0
04:34 <Luke-Jr> ARM
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm..... I don't know if it'll build kde for that
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> does that thing enough have enough memory to hold kde?
04:34 <Luke-Jr> hrm
04:34 <Luke-Jr> dunno
04:34 <Luke-Jr> or do you mean disk space?
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> both. sorry, my clie only has memory, programs run in place
04:34 <Luke-Jr> in which case, I think it could hold at least kdebase
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> I tend to think all pda's are like that
04:35 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, 64 MB RAM
04:35 <Luke-Jr> maybe they are
04:35 <Luke-Jr> most of the PDA-style Zaurus are RAM-only, IIRC
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> you're probably right about the 64MB, but I don't remember exactly
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> might be 32, I am a known cheapskate after all
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> t2 won't build for it, though.
04:36 <z-man> WTF?
04:36 <z-man> svn: Unrecognized URL scheme 'httpS://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad'
04:36 <z-man> grrr
04:36 <z-man> looks like I have to rebuild svn yet again.
04:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g 663/907
04:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 663 / 907 = 0.730981257
04:37 <philippeqc> z-man, I get the same error
04:37 <Lucifer_arma> oh boy, 73% complete now
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~$ svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad armagetronad
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> Checked out revision 0.
04:39 <z-man> philippeqc: It's working on my laptop when I s/S/s/, otherwise it crashes :(
04:39 <Luke-Jr> hm, someone with t2 is at least a little dense o.O
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> segfault when I make it a capital S, heh
04:39 <Luke-Jr> "...for the KDE Kool Desktop Environment."
04:39 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: exactly the same here :)
04:39 <Luke-Jr> K != Kool
04:40 <z-man> Krap?
04:40 <Luke-Jr> ...K
04:40 <Lucifer_arma> ? K used to mean kool, until they started getting big and needed a more marketable name
04:40 <Lucifer_arma> I know you'd like to rewrite history, but face it, K means kool.
04:40 <Luke-Jr> not anymore =p
04:40 <Lucifer_arma> and it's lame, and PHB types don't like it, that's why they changed it
04:42 <Lucifer_arma> they've also got a plone-driven website in development
04:42 <philippeqc> ok, fixed here, it was a lib that was missing.
04:43 <philippeqc> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/armagetronad'
04:43 <philippeqc> svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/armagetronad': Could not read status line: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)
04:43 <Lucifer_arma> t2 has support for cvs and svn urls for package sources, so we can make a svn trunk package for it
04:43 <philippeqc> I expect it is that because we still arent live!
04:43 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: worked here
04:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: most build systems do
04:44 <Lucifer_arma> do you get anything besides an empty directory at revision 0?
04:44 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no
04:44 <Luke-Jr> no, you shouldn't either
04:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
04:44 <philippeqc> Checked out revision 0.
04:44 <philippeqc> worked
04:44 <z-man> empty up to the .ssh subdirectory, that is.
04:44 <Lucifer_arma> I think Luke should change his name to Luke "Rains on everybody's parade" Jr
04:44 <z-man> philippeqc: just a glitch?
04:44 <philippeqc> it seems!
04:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: T2's dependency detector is nice
04:45 * philippeqc should learn to try stuff twice before accepting it as a problem....
04:45 <Lucifer_arma> you mean the one it doesn't have?
04:46 <Luke-Jr> "Dependencies (build time detected):"
04:46 * Lucifer_arma notes that rpm does that
04:46 <Luke-Jr> hmm?
04:46 <philippeqc> sheesh, I think I should NEVER get a quantum computer. I'd get the one where all the qbits are always as "maybe"
04:46 <Lucifer_arma> any good build system does, after all
04:46 <Lucifer_arma> if it doesn't, then it just plain sucks
04:46 <Luke-Jr> Portage does not
04:46 <Lucifer_arma> even deb does that
04:47 <Luke-Jr> oh
04:47 <Lucifer_arma> this is like elementary package building
04:47 <Luke-Jr> it detects the dependencies?
04:47 <Lucifer_arma> first semester of package building, you learn how to do that
04:47 <Luke-Jr> without a developer manually listing them?
04:47 <Lucifer_arma> yep
04:47 <Lucifer_arma> I forget the command, though. it's part of binutils. scans an elf executable for dynamic links
04:47 <Luke-Jr> ldd
04:48 <Lucifer_arma> ah, so you know about it!
04:48 <Luke-Jr> yes
04:48 <Luke-Jr> never noticed a pkg manager using it tho
04:48 <Luke-Jr> aww
04:48 <Luke-Jr> T2 doesn't cross-compile KDE
04:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh, t2 is trying to draft Luke to do work
04:52 <Luke-Jr> ;)
04:56 <Lucifer_arma> heh, "if armagetron decides to use t2 to build their livecd and server distribution, you'll be seeing a lot more of me as I come around here to bitch about how t2 is not gentoo"
04:59 <Luke-Jr> <Lucifer_arma> I put two of my celerons together and hit them with a hammer to see if a 64-bit celeron would come out of it
04:59 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why not use Gentoo then?
05:02 <z-man> Gee, SVN takes longer to configure than AA to build.
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> we probably shouldn't argue the merits of xhtml/kword for college papers in the t2 channel, Luke-Jr
05:03 <z-man> SSL library: No SSL support
05:03 <z-man> grr
05:03 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why not?
05:03 <Luke-Jr> z-man: O.o
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> because we have a channel right here we can do it in :)
05:03 <z-man> philippeqc: which library was missing for you? OpenSSL?
05:03 <philippeqc> no, it was to access the http repository
05:03 <Luke-Jr> ...
05:04 <Luke-Jr> Portage thinks I lack KDE
05:04 <Luke-Jr> such great news
05:04 <Lucifer_arma> damn, all that trash talking, and it turns out you really are a gnome guy
05:04 * Luke-Jr --skipfirst
05:04 <philippeqc> lib64svn_ra_dav1_0: HTTP/DAV Repository Access for the Subversion Client
05:04 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: nope, I use KDE =p
05:04 <Lucifer_arma> portage doesn't make mistakes... :)
05:04 <Luke-Jr> it does when I cheat on it?
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, well then, that's a different story
05:05 <Luke-Jr> I use Svn KDE
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> portage doesn't support svn urls for package sources?
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> that sucks
05:06 <Luke-Jr> Gentoo doesn't have KDE Svn ebuilds
05:06 <Luke-Jr> and I don't care to make them
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> can't you just take the regular kde ebuild and change the source url?
05:07 <Luke-Jr> maybe
05:07 <Luke-Jr> didn't try
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the thing about t2 supporting them is that we could have our server cd ship with the stable release, and then give admins the option to install from svn
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> you know, help us test and stuff if they want. Make it really easy to checkout svn--if you're running our own linux
05:08 <philippeqc> about having a secondary/different repository for svn than sf, how much disk space could be required?
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, iirc, the issue was keeping them in sync
05:09 * Lucifer_arma doesn't know about disk space
05:09 <Luke-Jr> 1 sec
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> it's probably a little more than cvs calls for because svn doesn't store diffs, it stores complete files
05:09 <z-man> it does?
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, yes
05:09 <z-man> thought it would always store BINARY diffs
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm........
05:10 <z-man> I remember reading a section in the SVN book about how efficient that is
05:10 <Luke-Jr> last I checked, svn does diffs...
05:11 <z-man> It was this thing the kernel devs use that stores full files
05:12 <Luke-Jr> certainly looks like binary diff data
05:12 <Luke-Jr> Git?
05:13 <philippeqc> Subversion, however, expresses differences between files using a binary-differencing algorithm, regardless of whether they contain textual or binary data. That means that all files are stored differentially (compressed) in the repository.
05:13 <philippeqc> that should have been quoted
05:13 <Luke-Jr> the actual data isn't compressed
05:14 <Luke-Jr> else I wouldn't have been able to read it in nano =p
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> doing diffs and storing diffs are different, but I'm not finding anything in the subversion manual about it
05:18 <Luke-Jr> Oldest rev: 1466 from armagetronad.svndump (2005-08-19T14:39:30.000000Z)
05:18 <Luke-Jr> ... writing as rev 1725
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I was on crack. :)
05:19 <Luke-Jr> Oldest rev: 175 from armagetronad_build.svndump (2006-01-14T15:40:48.000000Z)
05:19 <Luke-Jr> ... writing as rev 2818
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> #g 681/907
05:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 681 / 907 = 0.750826902
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> school starts tuesday
05:25 <z-man> about lunchtime :)
05:25 <Luke-Jr> eh
05:27 <Luke-Jr> now doing Stage 3c trial
05:27 <Luke-Jr> that will give us an estimated repository size
05:28 <Luke-Jr> and also an estimated post-import revision ;)
05:32 <Luke-Jr> about half done
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> still building thunderbird?
05:48 <Luke-Jr> no?
05:48 <Luke-Jr> was I earlier?
05:48 <Luke-Jr> Stage 3c Trial completed
05:48 <Luke-Jr> Repository size 111 MB
05:49 <Luke-Jr> Last revision 4572
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> no, me
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> cheese pizza sucks
05:50 <Luke-Jr> o
05:50 <Luke-Jr> sorry
05:50 <Luke-Jr> I only like chz and non-canada bacon
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> so how does the repository look?
05:50 <Luke-Jr> hm?
05:50 <Luke-Jr> 111 MB at rev 4572
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's a trial. Does the history look intact? what do you need to do to determine if its ready to throw on sourceforge?
05:51 <Luke-Jr> it's not, there's still stages 3d, 3e, and 4*
05:52 <Luke-Jr> if you want to check details, http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/listing.php?repname=AA2&path=%2F&rev=0&sc=0
05:53 <Luke-Jr> If you want to do an actual checkout, it's in /home/luke-jr/src/armagetron/svn.2/m/testrepo on my server
05:53 <Luke-Jr> (minus the '/m/' if you want pre-3c)
05:54 <Luke-Jr> not sure the best way to do that over the network w/o going to the trouble to setup a Svn server
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if I like the idea of getting involved with a project that takes more than 24 hours to build. Heh.
05:57 <Luke-Jr> that'd be any livecd...
05:57 <Luke-Jr> but like I said, why not use Gentoo Catalyst? =p
05:57 <Luke-Jr> then at least it's familiar somewhat
05:57 <Luke-Jr> and I think they have game livecd profiles already
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> well, if a livecd were all we're after, Kubuntu and Mandriva both offer tools to build them, too
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> me, personally, I need some deep down customizations that are either not possible without ripping out big parts of the debian core, or are too much of a pain to make it worth the trouble
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> in the presense of a tool built to do excatly what I'm wanting to do, that is
06:01 <Luke-Jr> what?
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> ?
06:02 <Luke-Jr> what are you doing other than a LiveCD?
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> the car computer...
06:02 <Luke-Jr> o
06:02 <Luke-Jr> so you're using it for both
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd like the car computer project to result in a linux distribution that anybody can download and use to put computers in their cars :)
06:03 <Luke-Jr> i c
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> partly that's to simplify upgrades for myself, I admit. Making software generaly useful for other people simplifies some things for yourself.
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> having found this t2 thing, I'm also interested in taking my custom KDE settings and building a distribution that sorta institutionalizes them
06:04 <Luke-Jr> part of the Armagetron program?
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> I have a "Intro to Linux" article on my website that gets some pretty good traffic. It'd be nice to offer a CD to go with it
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> no, my custom kde settings are pretty intense. Some applications can only be on certain desktops, maximized. Some other things.
06:04 <Luke-Jr> I was quoting TRON
06:05 <Luke-Jr> "Part of the Master Control Program?"
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to then take those settings and use them to build a distribution for music production, to support another article I wrote
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> Then I'd like to take these things and put them for sale, possibly with a manual. :)
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> I figure I get enough traffic on those two articles that I might pull some pocket change that way, and it's about time I started diversifying my income anyway
06:06 <Luke-Jr> sell boxes with CDs, manual, and a stuffed gnu =p
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I'd need to offer repositories of other packages, or have some way to provide people with the means to get other packages, but I can burn that bridge when I come to it
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> first thing's first, finish this article I've got to write, then build the car computer and write that article
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> that's probably about $500 there, for a side project. Not bad, eh?
06:07 <Luke-Jr> the stuffed gnu is important
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> plus some other programming work I need to try to have wrapped up before Tuesday. Then the Drupal stage starts.
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> Well, does cafepress offer stuffed gnus?
06:07 <Luke-Jr> don't think so
06:07 <Luke-Jr> but SuSE has their lizard thing as a beanie
06:07 <Luke-Jr> so you need it to compete with them
06:07 <Luke-Jr> ;)
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> :)
06:08 <Luke-Jr> I got it from a LinuxWorld Expo
06:08 <Luke-Jr> wish I was close enough to go to those more often
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> not looking to compete with the big guys, just offer some special-purpose stuff derived from personal pursuits.
06:08 <Luke-Jr> but the beanie...
06:08 <Luke-Jr> that's a seller right there! =p
06:09 <Luke-Jr> I was long since disinterested in SuSE, yet I sat at their booth to get the beanie =p
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=26
06:10 <Luke-Jr> would be nice to have got Ximian's monkeys tho
06:10 <Luke-Jr> but at least I got 'monkey munchies' from them
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=80
06:10 <Luke-Jr> mwahaha
06:10 * Luke-Jr thinks he might be in serious need of sleep =p
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> yay, thunderbird's done
06:12 <Lucifer_arma> is there a perlqt?
06:13 <Luke-Jr> dunno
06:13 <Luke-Jr> my wife would kill you for posting that second link, btw
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> thongs are cool
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> there is a perlqt, but it looks unmaintained since 2003
06:15 <Luke-Jr> dumb
06:16 <Luke-Jr> 'night
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> #g 685/907
06:18 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 685 / 907 = 0.755237045
06:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://supybot.com/Members/Synapse/TracBot
06:35 <z-man> Weee
06:35 <z-man> Does that mean we get #bug 123 here?
06:52 <Lucifer_arma> maybe
06:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's definitely something that argues in favor of trac, though. :)
06:57 <Lucifer_arma> #g 699/907
06:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 699 / 907 = 0.770672547
06:59 <Lucifer_arma> you still have a trac installation going?
07:02 * Lucifer_arma hopes we can get Evil Triumvirate recognized at large as a professional, positive project management structure
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> someday there will be a version of FreeCiv with an Evil Triumvirate government! It'll give you +1 trade, +2 industry, and +3 happiness!
07:03 * Lucifer_arma blows up in a puff of idealistic smoke
07:04 <n54> well according to some it's the preferred structure of Hell's top management ^^
07:04 <n54> that _should_ be a selling point to PHBes :)
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> by my book, there's 4 in charge of hell.
07:12 <Lucifer_arma> #g 704/907
07:12 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 704 / 907 = 0.776185226
07:22 <n54> meh I need 1-to-2 splits for 3-pin cables (for computer fans) and norwegian shops online and otherwise just plain suck :(
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> peel off some insulation on each of the wires and strip leads on the fan you want to wire in, then tape it up, eh?
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> of course, make sure the computer is off when you do that.
07:28 <n54> :)
07:30 * n54 moved the computer back down on the floor, the noise was driving me insane and now strangely enough I can barely hear it :D
07:46 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i know, i was just kidding :P
07:46 <wrtlprnft> #morning
07:46 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: Somebody's terminal is dropping bits. I found a pile of them over in the || corner.
07:49 <wrtlprnft> yay kdesvn seems to work, as far as you can test with an enpty directory
07:51 <n54> morning wrtlprnft :)
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> whenever I meet someone in Berlin, I always wonder if they're east german or west german. Do such distinctions even matter anymore?
08:01 <philippeqc> morning wrtlprnft
08:06 <n54> it only matters if you need someone who's fluent in russian :)
08:07 <n54> hi philippeqc :)
08:07 <philippeqc> hello n54
08:08 <n54> as for people in general there's still hugher unemployment and such in the east Lucifer, but it hasn't been enough time yet
08:09 * n54 is sure the germans here have many insights to provide us with
08:09 <n54> higher*
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> I knew that about the respective economies. That was one of the issues in the last election, iirc. The one that lady from east germany won, I mean.
08:12 <Lucifer_arma> and I hear, but don't know for a fact, that east berlin is kind of a slum area, for the most part. I don't know if slum is the right word, though. Hmmm....
08:13 <n54> hmm checks wikipedia
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> and anybody within about 5 years of my age (from below) grew up in the last years of the iron curtain
08:13 <n54> umm Hamburg i.e. not former east germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel
08:14 <n54> I'm your age, I wouldn't even say the "last years" :)
08:15 <n54> oh born in haburg but still citizen of east germany... *didn't know that*
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> aha, grew up in east germany though
08:15 <n54> Hamburg*
08:15 <n54> interesting
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, she's a hamburger :)
08:16 <n54> better a hamburger than a berliner :P (berliner is a kind of bun - a big bloop by kennedy lol)
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> apparently she didn't grow up a commie, though.
08:17 <SuPeRTaRD> I wouldnt wanna get caught holding that tar baby.
08:17 <SuPeRTaRD> :)
08:17 <n54> tar?
08:17 <n54> tar.gz? sticky stuff?
08:18 <SuPeRTaRD> tar.dz
08:18 <n54> lol SuPeRTaRD :)
08:19 <Lucifer_arma> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/AMerkel.jpg/250px-AMerkel.jpg <--- I'll bet she was hot when she was younger
08:19 <wrtlprnft> haha
08:20 <n54> lol weird accosiation the Luci :)
08:20 <philippeqc> Its amazing how political discussion slides into "babes of the past" dicussions
08:20 <n54> association*
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha
08:20 <SuPeRTaRD> mmmm cave-girl pussy
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, I kind of like her. :) I don't really know enough about german politics to know if she's really cool or not, but she's a science woman, and that's cool enough.
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> but science + politics? The only thing that doesn't make sense is the CDU thing, but I'm probably just stereotyping christian political parties
08:21 <philippeqc> SuPeRTaRD: I think you over stretched the "babes of the past" idea
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> nah, I've seen the same girls around Austin he has, and cave-girl is about right
08:22 <SuPeRTaRD> takin' it to the next level
08:22 <n54> ok look Luci you have to realize that everywhere except in the US the word "christian" has normally meant that people _aren't_ complete nutjobs (the US trend is spreading though) :D
08:22 <philippeqc> Miss amobea of the month
08:22 <wrtlprnft> hmm, the german article is about twice as long, but has just one image
08:22 <SuPeRTaRD> it does?
08:22 <SuPeRTaRD> does that include catholics?
08:23 <n54> surprisingly yes :)
08:23 <SuPeRTaRD> they are nutjobs
08:23 <SuPeRTaRD> bleeding/weeping statues
08:23 <SuPeRTaRD> pfffft
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> n54: nah, you have to be a nutjob to believe subjective stories told by primitive people are more accurate than modern science
08:23 <philippeqc> many catholics are prefectly well adjusted persons. Its not an entry membership requirement.
08:23 <n54> remember that the US was more or less based on english religious people who were so extremely pios that nobody wanted them around - so they travelled to another continent...
08:24 <n54> pious* aka prude
08:24 <SuPeRTaRD> most christians in america are 2faced bigots who enjoy war
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> you could take that interpretation and ignore the huge immigration of really smart and talented europeans in the late 19th/early 20th century that sucked europe dry of all its worthwhile talent
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> :)
08:25 <SuPeRTaRD> mebbe down thru history too
08:25 * Lucifer_arma nods to his Italian great-grandparents
08:25 <n54> wellt here was a thing called WWII Luci
08:25 <n54> well there*
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> another damn european war. what of it?
08:26 <n54> ok this is getting too silly nevermind :)
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> you could have just made your point by reminding me of that church group in kansas
08:26 <wrtlprnft> iraq is probably another damn asian war, right?
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> "Terrorists harass the US army in Iraq because there are too many fags in the US!"
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> man, talk about nutjobs.
08:27 <n54> yup
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: no, it's a middle-eastern war :P
08:27 <SuPeRTaRD> nah, iran is PROBABLY another tho
08:27 <SuPeRTaRD> ;p
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> nah, that's not our style
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> first we gonna do sanctions and starve their kids
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> then we're gonna get france to trade them food for oil while we cut off everything else
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> so they won't have starving kids, but they'll have big disease
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> then we'll say their leaders suck and invade
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> That, my friend, is how the US makes war
08:28 <philippeqc> that's the christian-american way!
08:29 <n54> that, my frien, is the worst summary I've ever seen of the Iraqi war :D
08:29 <SuPeRTaRD> wont we have cia appoint one of our underground guys as thier leader first?
08:29 <SuPeRTaRD> & then another
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, you're right n54, I left out a detail
08:29 <philippeqc> better train them to be sure they do a good job first.
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> before the sanctions, we're going to go in and bomb the living piss out of them.
08:30 <SuPeRTaRD> did iraqi's have those wonderful diabold machines to vote on?
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> Sanctions work better ona country trying to rebuild from a war.
08:30 <n54> don't take history lessons from Michael Moore :)
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> eh? that's not michael moore. :)
08:30 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: sanctions in a defeated country is how you get WW2 :(
08:31 * Lucifer_arma notes that that's exactly what we did to Iraq
08:31 <n54> yup wrtlprnft
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> have we already forgotten about the whole thing with Kuwait? back around 1991 or so?
08:31 <n54> sorry Luci you're either just flat wrong or typing it up way to simplistically
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> I know, some of youse weren't even born then or something...
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> ok n54, you tell me what happened then.
08:31 <SuPeRTaRD> youse guys
08:32 <wrtlprnft> i was born, but two years old :P
08:32 * Lucifer_arma nods to his italian great-grandparents again :)
08:32 <n54> will take too long Lucifer
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> "you're flat wrong, but it'll take me too long to show it"
08:32 <SuPeRTaRD> n54 you a republican?
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> I love debates.
08:33 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kuwait#Conflict_with_Iraq
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> they don't have republicans in Norway
08:33 <n54> we do, but they're not what you would recognize as republicans
08:33 <n54> they're for the abolishment of the monarchy
08:34 <n54> but I'm definetly happy Saddam is gone in case that's what you were really asking :)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> did they actually ever catch bin laden?
08:34 <n54> and yeah I would be a republican if I was from the US
08:34 <SuPeRTaRD> sadam is in russia
08:34 <SuPeRTaRD> the guy in the hole was a double
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> screw the republicans, vote libertarian!
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> hey tard, you for Kinky?
08:35 <SuPeRTaRD> i'm for a koo
08:35 <n54> the problem discussing the Iraqi war is that it's so damnd difficult to tell wheter people actually believe what they say or are just making a joke :)
08:36 <SuPeRTaRD> i think all us citizens should march to DC & do the dirty deed
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> strayhorn? she's pretty cool, you know.
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, the only reason I don't like the Iraqi war is that Bush lied to us to go there. Sure, there's some truth somewhere in what he said, but he was lying through his teeth
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> and it only took half a brain to work out that he was just trying to manipulate american opinion to support a war for his own personal agenda
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> now, he could have given lots of good reasons that would have stood to justify it in my mind *without lying*
08:37 <n54> I disagree (as you well know) :)
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> and he definitely didn't need to play the 9/11 card. In fact, I think the 9/11 card played like it was is a very dangerous card to play.
08:38 <SuPeRTaRD> its all bullshit. the last vote was bullshit.
08:38 <SuPeRTaRD> i dont belive anyone voted for him or agrees with him
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> It's basically saying "if we don't go fight this war, 5000 more americans will die when our security agencies fuck up the next time"
08:39 <n54> paraphrasing isnt really all that impressive...
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can disagree all you want, n54, but lots of credible sources (not Michael Moore) have well-documented the half-truths used to justify the war
08:39 <n54> look there's a big difference between being wrong and lying, can we agree on that as in principle?
08:39 <SuPeRTaRD> last vote, all the polls said teh dems would win, pre-polls have never been that off b4
08:39 <wrtlprnft> how could Lucifer_arma like Moore? He's texan :P
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like Moore, that's the point. :)
08:40 <wrtlprnft> i know
08:40 <wrtlprnft> well, Moore doesn't like texans
08:40 <n54> well you're sleeping with him Luci so well I would have thought that was a problem for you :)
08:40 <SuPeRTaRD> n54, his daddy was head of cia for 30 years
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> eh? nononono, there's several huge differences between me and Moore.
08:40 <n54> yes I know SuPeRTaRD
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> for one thing, at 200lbs, I'm a lot thinner.
08:40 * n54 doesn't see them right now
08:40 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's what I'm saying
08:40 <SuPeRTaRD> i'm pretty sure lil shrub knows anything he wants to know about foriegn politics b4 his decizions
08:41 <wrtlprnft> remember the awful truth and death penalty?
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> n54, when you go to war, you need to go for good reasons. You're going to cause huge death and destruction, and if you go for the wrong reasons,
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> your'e going to have serious problems.
08:41 <n54> have you read any of christopher hitckins articles Luci?
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> atrocities, een.
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, don't know. I don't pay attention to authors. :) And I don't read blogs.
08:42 <n54> hold on
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> you could win the war militarily, but lose it in all the ways that matter if you go charging off half-cocked, pumped up full of bullshit
08:43 <SuPeRTaRD> horrible stupid war, i encourage everyone to buy ethenol equipped vehicles & stay home & grow corn.
08:43 <n54> hitcjens* (got the name wrong)
08:43 <SuPeRTaRD> :)
08:43 <SuPeRTaRD> wwbfd
08:43 <SuPeRTaRD> what woudl buckminster fuller do?
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> now, at the time the war happened, I supported waiting 6 months like Germany and France had asked.
08:43 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
08:43 <SuPeRTaRD> same
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> I thought that was reasonable, all things considered.
08:44 <SuPeRTaRD> as i recall, us 'mericans dont get to vote on war
08:44 <SuPeRTaRD> dumb.
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> after 6 months, if germany and france still wanted to wuss out, then I would have gladly gone along with this unilateral invasion
08:44 <SuPeRTaRD> our government is corrupt to the core, both partys
08:44 <SuPeRTaRD> & should be overthrown soon
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> and here we get to the difference between me and that fat lazy liberal idiot Michael Moore.
08:44 <SuPeRTaRD> imvho
08:45 <n54> not really
08:45 <SuPeRTaRD> the UN too
08:45 <n54> http://www.slate.com/id/2102723/
08:45 <SuPeRTaRD> cnn, nbc, abc, cbs, fox
08:45 <SuPeRTaRD> microsoft
08:45 <SuPeRTaRD> :)
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't oppose the war, I opposed the president's reasons for the war
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> and I feared the effect going to war under his pretensions would have on my country
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> luckily, depending on how you look at it, the administration has enough fuckups under their belt since then that the damage that could have been done here has been mostly repaired
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> and it's finally starting to look like Iraq might hold up its end of the deal and get itself established, and that will be really nice
08:48 <n54> look, 1. they focused on more than just wmd 2. the focus that was on wmd was to gain public support because it was the easiest one to understan 3. yes that dumbing down was a stupid move retrospectively 4. almost all intelligence agencies in the world concurred with the notion that Saddam was likely to have B & C weapons (not A, but the knowledge required) 5. a lot of stuff (don't know what) was moved to syria with russian help
08:48 <SuPeRTaRD> they let 9-11 happen.. wake up
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> 1. he focused on wmd and *failed*
08:48 <n54> I could go on and on but it is not a subject that's easily discussed on a channel/chat
08:48 <SuPeRTaRD> pilots were allowed to carry a handgun from 1969-2001
08:49 <SuPeRTaRD> 3mo b4 911 , they werent
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> so then he whipped out 2. Iraq breeds terrorists, followed by 3. Americans have the god-given right to impose democracy, then 4. Linked Iraq to 9/11, then 5. I forgot, hang on, and 6. They tried to assassinate my dad
08:49 * n54 listened to and watched _all_ open sessions of the UN security council as well as all the rest of public announcements etc.
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> whatever, he had to sell it to the american people, and as an american person, I consider myself an eyewitness to what we were told
08:50 <n54> sorry Luci that's just so... *self-censored*
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> so you're saying that from over there in Norway, you feel pretty confident in how the administration presented the war to the people in this country?
08:50 <n54> heh
08:51 <philippeqc> humm, sorry to step in to your discussion with a question about code structure.
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> I might get all uppity, but I like to think I don't pretend to know what a country I don't live in looks like on the ground there
08:51 <n54> cool we need that about now philippeqc :)
08:52 <philippeqc> In my changes to the tValue, I've made Base a template class, so it could have a member function std::set<T> GetCol (Col as in Collection)
08:53 <philippeqc> and this pretty much open up the road for a bunch of collection operations (union, intersection, difference, ...)
08:53 <SuPeRTaRD> to re-itterate, i encourage everyone to stay home & grow corn. vote for me this fall!
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> SuPeRTaRD: you for Kinky? Who you like for governor?
08:53 <SuPeRTaRD> yeh freedman
08:53 <philippeqc> Now I'm looking to merge my experimental bits, and wrtlprnft's Set is giving me a headacke
08:53 <SuPeRTaRD> i guess
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> You could go for Perry.... ;)
08:54 <SuPeRTaRD> hell no
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: better wake up wrtlprnft and ask him, he seems to have disappeared
08:54 <philippeqc> Should it (Set) be a trio of T, or a trio of 3 different types.
08:54 <SuPeRTaRD> i dunno when vote date is tho
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> I'm torn. I like Strayhorn a lot, too.
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> sometime in November, isn't it?
08:54 <SuPeRTaRD> my ex has my voter reg.
08:54 <SuPeRTaRD> :/
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> you don't need it. :) Or so I hear, anyway. You just show your ID.
08:55 <SuPeRTaRD> true
08:55 <SuPeRTaRD> diebold machiens, my vote prolly dont count ;p
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> I was planning on pissing on the voting machine and giving them a piece of paper
08:56 <SuPeRTaRD> good luck
08:56 <philippeqc> watch out you dont get electrocuted
08:57 <n54> sssh don't increase their paranoia :)
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> well , we could go in and demand to see the source for the machines and make a big deal about how I cna't know my vote counts if I don't know how it's being counted,
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> and the diebold machines in california yadayada (bad machines)
09:01 <n54> saw they got banned by a state a week ago or so, also saw that the f/oss alternatives aren't ready yet (a f/oss system would be nice)
09:01 <n54> s/by/in
09:04 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: strike that about Set. Realised it contains Bases, and it isnt one, so the prob doesnt exist. Now to see how to set up a static type for String.
09:07 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
09:10 <n54> hi GodTodd :)
09:10 <GodTodd> 'ello
09:12 <n54> anyone here got experience with "silencing mats" for pc's? they kind that glues on to the inside of the cabinet?
09:12 <n54> the*
09:19 <philippeqc> I'll go cycle. I cant seem to concentrate. See you in a bit
09:19 <n54> cya :)
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09:38 <Lucifer_arma> I thought california bought and later banned the diebold machines and it was history, pretty much. Maybe this is another state?
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g 707/907
09:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 707 / 907 = 0.779492834
09:39 <n54> sorry I don't remember which state it was but I don't think it was ca
09:40 <n54> btw what's the math?
09:41 <Lucifer_arma> progress on the t2 build
09:41 <Lucifer_arma> 907 packages total, 707 complete
09:44 <Lucifer_arma> the wizard of oz is such a twisted story
09:45 * n54 never much cared for it
09:46 <n54> but why do think of it as twisted?
09:46 <n54> do you*
09:46 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, could take awhile :)
09:47 <n54> hmm
09:48 <n54> well, let's say that if it has to do about the Iraq war in some way then count me out ;)
09:49 <Lucifer_arma> haha, not that I know of
09:49 <n54> hehe :D
09:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, here goes
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> the story starts showing us this girl who's got this dog that's the only thing that seems to love her
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> her family couldn't give a shit about her, and there's the evil church lady that wants to kill the dog
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> then a tornado sweeps along, and when the girl tries to go underground to escape, she finds that she's locked out of the shelter
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> by her family
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> then she goes to the land of oz, a beautiful land where people actually care about her
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> she makes these friends that she becomes very close to
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> and through it all, she's trying to go home!?!
09:51 <n54> heh :)
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'll overlook the lion and the others and focus on the girl :)
09:52 <n54> must be something about kansas I guess ;P
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> at the end, she's given a basic choice. Stay here where people love you and care about you, or go home where nobody gives a rat's ass about you
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> but if you go home, you have to really want to do it!
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> and wouldn't you know? She *wants* to go home!
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> so she's given a chance to choose a better life for herself, and she passes it up, and for what? the people that locked her out of the shelter when the tornado came?
09:53 <n54> perhaps it isn't meant to be taken too literal?
09:54 * n54 shouldn't defend stories he think sucks
09:56 <n54> nwever had to study it but I would guess wikipedia has some "spoilers" written by a group of english-language teachers :) shall we check it out?
09:56 <n54> never*
09:56 * n54 must learn to read his sentences before hitting enter - not afterwards
09:57 <Lucifer_arma> I just hit wikipedia actually :)
09:57 <n54> ok i'll load it too
09:57 <Lucifer_arma> looks like the common interpretation is that you have all the resources you need if you just have self-confidence
09:59 <n54> yeah I know that one but it's... lame (I hate that word but it's the only that fits)
10:01 <n54> seen this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> hang on, computer's respoding slowly
10:04 <n54> that's ok, no rush
10:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's mostly the c compiler, but for some reason didn't get bad until I hit the page you linked (sometime before you linked it)
10:07 <n54> perhaps running short on memory?
10:08 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, hard drive's cranking nastily
10:08 <Lucifer_arma> usually when I have swap problems like that, it's firefox to blame, so I just killed firefox
10:09 <n54> yeah leaky
10:09 <n54> same here (unless I try to run openoffice or something stupid like that (limited machine))
10:10 <Lucifer_arma> konversation's pretty bad too, hang on
10:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:10 <n54> hmm that made me wonder if synergy might support copy/paste between the desktops of different machines...
10:12 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
10:13 <n54> ooh yeah! yummy! :D "Synergy also merges the clipboards of all the systems into one, allowing cut-and-paste between systems." I so look forward to trying that out :D http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/
10:13 <n54> and wb :) I gotta go for a short while, back in ten or so
10:16 <Lucifer_arma> ko
10:18 <Lucifer_arma> I"m melllting! What a world, what world!
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> he doesn't have a brain
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> he just gve the most ass-wrong version of the pythagorean theorem I've ever heard
10:23 <n54> back
10:23 <Lucifer_arma> a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you're loved by others
10:23 <n54> that's bs imo
10:23 <n54> is that from the oz?
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> yep, it's what he said the to tinman
10:25 <n54> I can repaste that political oz wikipedia link if you want
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, the wizard left a triumvirate to rule in his stead
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm fine, I'm actually about to go cook breakfast for myself
10:26 <n54> uh-oh
10:26 <n54> :)
10:28 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think I could dislike this story any less, heh. maybe we'll pick up this thread again :)
10:28 <n54> well I dislike it even more after reading halfway through that wikipedia thing lol :)
10:29 <n54> sure, next time we're fed up disagreeing or something like that ;)
10:37 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-78.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
10:37 <madmax|pt> hello
10:38 <Lucifer_arma> before I go cook breakfast, I wanted to point out that the wizard did say something kinda cool
10:38 <Lucifer_arma> he said (paraphrased to make it cool), "I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma!"
10:42 <n54> mm well that just makes him (the wiz) a phb or something like that imo :)
10:43 <Lucifer_arma> I like the implication that the certificate doesn't mean what it's commonly interpreted to mean: competence
10:43 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I've known guys who were perfectly competent in their fields but generally not very smart...
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, firefox and konversation had so much memory that every time gcc started a new file it had to swap a bunch of shit out
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> no wonder my computer hd slowed to a crawl
10:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, the book for the wizard of oz is in project gutenberg, maybe I'll put it on my clie and give it a read
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> but I understand the author was pretty genocidal, wrote an editorial in the 1870s advocating killing all the indians, arguing against the reservation policy entirely
10:46 <n54> yeah that makes sense - as to certifications they do have their use, but for the most part they're misused (i both have some myself as well as taught people studying to take them and others)
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> my source on that could be suspect, though
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> well I've seen certifications that carried some real weight. I thought Jiffy Lube's internal certification program ws awesome, and I still think so.
10:46 <n54> I have no idea about the author
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> but then I worked alongside guys who were ASE-certified mechanics, had graduate certificates from technical schools, and I had to teach them righty-tighty-lefty-loosey
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> how the hell do you get through a technical school without turning a screw?
10:47 <n54> ok I have no knowledge of those at all
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> ASE is an automotive mechanic certification
10:48 <n54> by having the wrong curriculum, it's very common in a lot of different disciplines
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's a 25 question multiple choice test, but you have to have 2 years of hands-on work experience to take it
10:48 <n54> the right curriculum can matter more than having a good or bad teacher
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> the ACC program has you rebuild a junk car almost from scratch, but the ACC guys usually go to the dealerships. I hear that's a very good automotive program and almost went into it myself some years ago.
10:49 <n54> well... look at the drowes that cram for a day just to take mcp's mcse's a-certifications, ccna etc. etc.
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> haha, don't get me started on MCSE point-and-click server administration
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> I hear redhat's certification is noteworthy, but haven't personally experienced it
10:50 <n54> well you know if people actually do what they're supposed to then it's not just point-and-click, that's why I singled out those who just cram answers
10:51 <n54> it applies to rehadt and lcp and whatnot, no difference (well except cisco in part)
10:51 <n54> cisco actually had a pretty nice setup
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm reminded of the kid in my trig class who asked how easy the tests were. :) I told him "If you study the material and learn it, all tests are easy"
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> he was pissed at me for that, haha.
10:51 <n54> <-- cisco-authorized ccna instructor (but that was years ago)
10:51 <n54> hehe :)
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> <-- AAMsomethingorother certified :)
10:52 <n54> :)
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> only certification I ever got was mobile air conditioning (besides Jiffy Lube's internal certifications)
10:52 <n54> but you've used it afterwards I bet - I haven't :(
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's a lifetime certification, if I dig up the card I can buy freon (in the county, city has additional certifications)
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I did actually. Paid quite a few bills doing A/C work in texas
10:54 <n54> it's A/C as in electricity or?
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> Air Conditioning
10:54 <n54> oh
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> maybe the acronym is imaap or something like that
10:54 <n54> no idea
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> the certification includes refrigerators and stuff, mobile air conditioning
10:55 <n54> explains the freon :)
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> stuff you'd expect to see the r-12 or r-134a in. Houses and buildings in general use r-22, which is a different certification
10:55 <n54> btw hi to madmax too :) (almost didn't see you)
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha, and it's one of those "I won't pollute the atmosphere or deplete the ozone layer" tests. More conditioning than competence.
10:56 <madmax|pt> lol
10:56 <madmax|pt> hi n54
10:56 * Lucifer_arma had a hard time being proud of getting that one, but it was a quarter raise at the time and the company paid the test fee
10:56 <n54> ok
10:56 <n54> :)
10:57 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-034-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
10:57 <n54> hi joda
10:57 <joda_bot> hi n54
10:57 <joda_bot> oh fun fun fun ;)
10:57 <madmax|pt> hello joda
10:57 <joda_bot> just back from the doctors for the 3rd time today
10:58 <SuPeRTaRD> virus?
10:58 <SuPeRTaRD> ;p
10:58 <GodTodd> blergle
10:59 <joda_bot> Ampicillin and amoxicillin should also be avoided, since they cause an allergic-like rash in 90% of mono patients. This rash may then be incorrectly diagnosed as an allergic reaction to penicillin.
10:59 <joda_bot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_mononucleosis
10:59 <n54> blergle bllok GodTodd
10:59 <joda_bot> The fun of a virus .... need an anti virus update ;)
11:00 <n54> ouch well
11:00 <n54> it's not that uncommon :)
11:01 <joda_bot> Yeah, but they treated it with anti biotics ;)
11:01 <joda_bot> which does not look nice ;)
11:01 <n54> yeah
11:01 <n54> so... got it from you gf or something like that?
11:02 <joda_bot> guess so yes
11:11 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: did you forget to run Norton Update?
11:11 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: guess I lost my wifi connection some time ago :-P
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> haha. had to make the connection with a regular cable, eh?
11:12 <joda_bot> I'm plugged in now... found a free port next to my pc ,)
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> so that's where you've been, eh? network problems?
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> so when's your girlfriend gonna come live with you?
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> mmmm. eggs over-easy. My wife needs to buy bacon more often, it's the only way to do the eggs justice.
11:16 <GodTodd> we always have roughly a whole pig in the freezer heh
11:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/907
11:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 728 / 907 = 0.802646086
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> yay! I'm out of the 70s!
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> been building for about 27 hours now
11:17 <joda_bot> ?
11:18 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3511 <--- you've seen this, joda?
11:19 <n54> lol GodTodd that's a lot of bacon :)
11:19 <Lucifer_arma> ? GodTodd's a known cop-killer
11:20 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: so, I'm building the desktop target of the t2 system in that thread, having thrown out ROCK because t2 is technologically superior
11:20 <n54> hmm deleting artwork (the link) shouldn't be neccessary, just sign them instead
11:21 <n54> although I don't see a point in trying to make it _that_ exclusive anyhow
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but you know, it just seems like something isn't special edition unless the materials are destroyed after producing it
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> kinda like the Atlas rockets
11:21 <n54> I disagree :)
11:22 <n54> it's special because you want it, not because of what it is
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> well, I could be convinced not to destroy it, as long as there's a mechanism to ensure that copies can't be remade
11:22 <n54> why not make copies if people want them even for old editions?
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> and signing it and then throwing away the keys used to sign it are a good way to do that
11:22 <n54> anyway it seems like a non-isssue to me :)
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, the thing about the signing solution is that we could make copies that look and feel the same, but wouldn't be part of the series
11:23 <n54> you know you want to sell them for something like 10-20 bucks tight? not 100 ;)
11:23 <n54> right*
11:24 <GodTodd> hey...i only killed one cop and he was asking for it :P
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> hey, it was your idea!
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> erm, that was to n54
11:25 <n54> and set up the structure for what is approved use of the money beforehand - why? - because it's the hard part, the really really hard part
11:26 <n54> not so much of an idea as an alternative that I realized would be sort of pointless :9
11:26 <joda_bot> ah, about the ROCK cd ?
11:26 <n54> umm no that part was Luci (although it has been discussed way back)
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> heh. there's a structure, sorta, for how to spend money. That was setup when the paypal stuff was setup.
11:26 <joda_bot> What do you want to get rid of ? The files used to build the CD ?
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. If it's a special edition CD, where the custom bang-up artwork is what makes it special edition, then it seems like we should delete said special artwork after the CD is made
11:27 <n54> ok, then nail it down so that people supporting feel they know what they're donating too - flimsiness there will/can only make people suspicious or somthing like that
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> you know, put it out for 3-6 months or so
11:28 <n54> no my idea was to have it exclusive on cd for only a short period of time like obsd does
11:28 <n54> then release it for free (it's GPL after all)
11:28 <n54> (we not obsd of course) ;)
11:28 <n54> we,*
11:29 <GodTodd> do it like disney....put out the special edition for a short time then lock it away for an extended period (relatively) then re-release it as like an anniversary edition ;)
11:29 <n54> a way for people to donate where they feel they get a little extra; a prerelease cd with nice artwork and a few stickers
11:29 <n54> hehe
11:30 <n54> and of course the artwork would have to be a cc-license (probably the easiest)
11:31 <n54> but all this requires a lot more availability of theming armagetron in the first place so as to attract skinners and modellers and so on... so it might be a bit too early to think of?
11:33 <n54> and once you have this the availability of possible t-shirt designs is likely to blossom as well
11:33 <joda_bot> So a problem I see, (given server based theme support) - What happens if someone uses a art theme for his/her server
11:33 <joda_bot> and the ppl download the art theme
11:33 <n54> good point I've been halfway thinking about that myself
11:34 <joda_bot> If we don't want to sue or control the distribution all the time... we just should aim for initial buying
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11:34 <n54> since it's GPL in the first place I don't think it would be right to restrict it
11:34 <joda_bot> e.g. let ppl pay for getting a copy in their region and allow non internet based copying
11:34 <joda_bot> well, and theme use for a server
11:34 <n54> we should aim for feel-good awesome "I play Armagetron" community flavour :)
11:34 <joda_bot> (this won't deliver all art work to all clients)
11:35 <n54> I doubt there's any point controlling it - it's just an incentive to show off and make people support
11:35 <joda_bot> It makes recruiting artists more difficult though
11:36 <n54> however.... the way I was thinking it would be a pre-realease of not just artwork but the "new version" as well
11:36 <n54> so that removes part of the server issue - or easily could
11:36 <n54> it would mean having that version not available at cvs or similar before a given date however
11:37 <joda_bot> n54: this does not make sense, as the verion will tend to be less final / fixed than later releases
11:37 <n54> so... it's a big discussion really
11:37 <n54> what do you mean less?
11:37 <joda_bot> any version which is stable will be released ;)
11:38 <joda_bot> does not make sense to / is not possible to hold back the new versions for a long time, as it's GPL after all
11:38 <n54> ah ok I think I see your point but the same holds true for obsd cd's etc. you're probably looking at this the wrong way: the idea is _not_ to force people in any way to pay, it's just an encouragement and pr
11:38 <joda_bot> well, you can make something like sveasoft
11:39 <joda_bot> but I don't really like charging for GPL products
11:39 <n54> for obsd (BSD-license) they wait about a month afaik
11:39 <n54> nothing wrong charging but one has to realease the code to the buyer (it has to be on the cd as source)
11:39 <n54> release*
11:39 <joda_bot> Paying for art packs and being allowed to redistribute them, and to modify them with authors permission sounds ok to me
11:40 <n54> and they're free to share it of course but that's not the point, the point is to give them something extra
11:40 * n54 guesses to few here are familiar with obsd for me to manage to explain the concept of what they do easily
11:40 <joda_bot> n54: iceman's secret wall hack ;)
11:40 <n54> no please not :)
11:41 <n54> btw that has to be gpl too
11:41 <n54> if distributed in any way
11:41 <joda_bot> yeah, but it's a fork of the armagetronad project and thus the GPL source is only on the CD ;)
11:41 <n54> (which it has already been afaik)
11:41 <joda_bot> hm... remove server camera restrictions :-P
11:41 <n54> stop thinking money
11:42 <n54> think joy :)
11:42 <joda_bot> Then it's large set of maps and art work ... perhaps single player maps for armagetron ;)
11:42 <Lucifer_arma> slow down. we're not talking about holding anything back. If you're reading Luke-Jr's post, disregard it. No way that'll go over.
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> what we're talking about is custom artwork for CDs that are made available for purchase to pay project expenses
11:43 <n54> 1. for money pure donations will alway be more profitable for the project 2. the cd & all that will increase visibility etc. and make people want to support that way too once in a while
11:43 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: under what license ? (artwork?)
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's stuff like 0.2.8.1 on the CD
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> has to be gpl-compatible or we couldn't distribute it, right?
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> we're not even going to try to stop people from redistributing stuff, we don't work that way, never have and never will.
11:43 <n54> gpl & cc (some of them) are compatible afaik
11:44 <n54> rms does not really support gpl use for non-code
11:44 <joda_bot> n54: even restricted art work would be compatible AFAIK
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> no, he doesn't, but most open source games use it. If it's part of the program, that is.
11:44 <n54> he hates cc though but I like cc - should be the creators decision as long as it's compatible (ref. wikimedia)
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> no, because you have to be able to redistribute the whole thing.
11:44 <joda_bot> n54: just makes it a pain to work with the licenses
11:45 * n54 would not gpl artwork
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'd just as soon take art as GPL and not worry about it. we had this talk in Crimson Fields several years ago, and just taking it as gpl was the best solution.
11:45 <n54> it's not difficult (once again ref. wikimedia)
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> look, don't GPL the poster you drew or the song you recorded for your album, right?
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> *this* artwork is part of the game and doesn't live outside the game. And the author is free to release it under a different license separately, right?
11:46 <joda_bot> perhaps we should let the artists decide about the license, and include a flag which use is allowed ?
11:46 <n54> it will live outside the game, people would of course reuse parts as they see fit
11:46 <joda_bot> e.g. server based theme ok ? client side use only ?
11:46 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't matter, because as long as it comes in gpl-compatible, and looks really sweet, we'll use it
11:46 <n54> that's what I'm saying joda (ref. eikimedia - any one of you seen the details there? it's not hard)
11:46 <n54> wiki*
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> I'd be happy to include a link or an alternate license. I'd prefer GPL for it next to the game, but there's nothing that says it can't have another license that someone who receives the CD can elect *for the artwork*
11:47 <joda_bot> This model might even allow for disney releasing a commerical movie pack for armagetron ?
11:47 <n54> as long as the license is compatible
11:47 <n54> i.e. "free as in libre"
11:48 <Lucifer_arma> as far as I know, yeah, the license has to be compatible. It's an interesting question whether or not disney's moviepack constitutes a derivative work
11:48 <n54> a derivative work of a derivative work inspired by the original which they happen to own? :D
11:48 <n54> *had to say that* fun :)
11:48 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, livecd is a ways off, and as far as I'm concerned, the iso images should be availble for free download. A person shouldn't have to buy the CD to get the CD, so to speak.
11:49 <joda_bot> I was really talking about utopia... that disney themselv would release a commerical addon artpack for armagetron
11:49 <n54> agreed Lucifer, it doesn't _have_ to be a pre-release
11:49 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: ok that, would kill that option ... I'd say let the artists decide
11:49 <joda_bot> If they prefer to restrict the CDs use, we can do it that way or the other
11:49 <Lucifer_arma> so buying the CD is something you do because you want a print CD and you want to give some money to the project to help them out
11:49 <joda_bot> Because you need good artists / maps for the CD to work at all ?
11:49 <n54> and you want stickers of course! ^^
11:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not personally inclined to accept artwork that would restrict the CDs use
11:50 <n54> or a t-shirt :)
11:50 <n54> yes you need good artists
11:50 <n54> agreed Lucifer that's a no-go
11:50 <n54> must have compatible license
11:50 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I'd atleast start to collect art submissions while letting artists choose a license
11:50 <joda_bot> The art can then still be omitted
11:50 <Lucifer_arma> simple enough, if artists aren't willing to share and share alike, they need to play a different game. I don't see why I should put out my own code for free without any strings attached (beyond the GPL) but some self-appointed "artiste" gets an automatic in to do whatever draconian thing he wants
11:51 <n54> look the only way to attract good artists is to let people use it in the game, that was my point earlier and we're some way from that at the moment - so no hurry :)
11:51 <Lucifer_arma> no, I won't accept it. If the artist's license doesn't look, act, and smell like GPL, I don't want their artwork, they can go fuck themselves
11:51 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I do it as we do it with code too, try to allow for all tastes
11:51 <Lucifer_arma> we only take code that's GPL, so I'm fine with that
11:51 <joda_bot> It's still a player's choice to use commerical or non commerical stuff
11:52 <n54> must me gpl-compatible that part is not up for any discussion imho
11:52 <n54> be*
11:52 <n54> if they want to do something else it's completely a private undertaking on their part and not "affiliated" imo
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> right. they'll make their own special CD or whatever
11:52 <n54> yup
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> host it on their own website, whatever. That's their choice.
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> but when we're talking about *our* CD that we're going to put out, they gotta play by the same rules any programmer has to play by
11:53 * n54 doesn't want to encourage it though, but that's just my personal opinon
11:53 <n54> yup
11:54 <n54> anyway. it's a topic that can simmer a few years probaly ^^ no rush
11:54 * Lucifer_arma is pretty sick of the idea that "artists" get a free "fuck you over" card just by being "artistic"
11:54 <n54> and one can do the cd stuff without any art and such to begin with
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> yes, precisely.
11:54 <n54> they get to be fucked over for free? :)
11:54 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Ever heard about portable apps ?
11:55 <joda_bot> http://portableapps.com/
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> portable apps? 'splain. that's a phrase-ology I'm not familiar with
11:55 <joda_bot> It's a concept for USB usuable applicaitons
11:55 <n54> something like klik?
11:55 <joda_bot> they store all their data in their own directories
11:55 <n54> ah same as klik :)
11:55 <joda_bot> No idea about klik
11:55 <n54> same idea :)
11:56 <n54> there's like a dozen of different projects doing the same afaik hehe all the rage these days :)
11:56 <n54> still it _is_ nice
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> that is interesting
11:57 <n54> perfect for use/installing when using a live-cd
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> armagetron will probably work like that with very little modification. We already did the binary relocatable thing, after all, for the autopackage
11:57 <n54> <-- uses a live-cd right now (the hd is rotten and sounds like a dying robot)
11:58 <joda_bot> n54: it can be included on the cd, but the cd won't be writable so it's not portable app compatible ;)
11:58 <n54> yes klik has to be on writeable media too
11:58 <n54> usb/hd/sc or possibly even floppy if it's tiny enough)
11:59 <n54> btw http://klik.atekon.de/
12:01 <n54> but klik-lilkes and live-cd are for different uses imo (in relation to armagrton that is)
12:01 <n54> armagetron*
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> hello?
12:01 <n54> hi :P
12:01 <n54> :)
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> you guys getting me?
12:01 <n54> I am
12:02 <Lucifer_arma> ok. my whole network just flickered, lost yahoo, websites ot responding, freenode not responding for 2 minutes
12:02 <n54> oh... you didn't see us either?
12:02 <Lucifer_arma> no
12:02 <n54> check that swap again? (cat /procs/swap)
12:03 <Lucifer_arma> did
12:03 <Lucifer_arma> you didn't lose armabot? probably something on my laptop then
12:03 <n54> yup
12:03 <Lucifer_arma> #g 735/907
12:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 735 / 907 = 0.810363837
12:03 <n54> you can try armabot chatlog?
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> I could, not sure I missed much. Just more klick talk?
12:05 <n54> btw thank you for the link joda, I will take a look at it later
12:05 <n54> yeah and a link
12:06 <n54> I was thinking to make sure armabot didn't have the same problem (none of you dropped)
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> I saw the link. Maybe I got everything
12:08 <n54> the klik link? if so ok
12:08 <n54> (not the portable link)
12:09 * n54 has been hyper for something like 20 minutes - weird day today
12:14 * Lucifer_arma is also having a Real Work conversation in another window, pardon his latency
12:14 <n54> no problem I'm busy jumping up and down ^^
12:15 <Lucifer_arma> wow. we should argue about IRaq more. Maybe there's a cure for ME somewhere in political debates...
12:15 <n54> nope
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> awww man, I get excited that it's screaming along, and then it hits another big package. Building KOffice now.
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> on the bright side, it looks like t2 is easier to customize targets than rock
12:16 * n54 is sick and tired of arguing about Iraq (most people only argue about Bush though)
12:16 <n54> nice
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> which is good, rock was a pain
12:17 <n54> so... those you contacted about writing up on rock will be ok with you writing up on t2 instead?
12:19 <n54> (btw being hyper is no cure for ME either)
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12:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they will. They'd be pissed if I wrote on rock without having done my research to find t2, and they'd be pissed if, after doing my research, I still wrote on rock, the technologically inferior product
12:21 <n54> ok
12:21 <n54> that's good then ^^
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> I am instant messaging with a guy who talks just like 2020
12:22 <Lucifer_arma> maybe he is 2020
12:23 <n54> like 2020 but on "chat"? Xo
12:23 <n54> that would make
12:23 <n54> for a very hard and
12:23 <n54> frustrating
12:23 <n54> conversation wouldn't
12:23 <n54> it?
12:23 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-184-78.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> /ignore n54 :)
12:27 <n54> hehe
12:57 * Lucifer_arma came [ ] this close to asking him if he was scottish
12:58 * n54 didn't know 2020 was from scotland
12:58 * Lucifer_arma knows where everyone's from.
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> go ahead, test me
12:58 <n54> hmm
12:59 <n54> where's commie from? ^^ (might be easy might be hard)
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> china
12:59 <n54> ok so you knew that :)
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not doing cities
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> brain is from taiwan
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> er, crimson guy. heh.
12:59 <n54> never met
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> he's a crimson fields contributor. :)
13:00 <n54> ok
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> give me a hard one this time. :)
13:00 <n54> well people you don't know would be unfair
13:00 <n54> like perhaps WarMonkey?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> american. hmmmm, california, right?
13:00 <n54> no :)
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh. ok, where?
13:01 * Lucifer_arma played a lot with him, he doesn't talk much.
13:01 <n54> alaska
13:01 <n54> iirc (long time since he said anything about it)
13:01 <n54> freewheeling55 then? (might be easy again)
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> canada
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> toronto, iirc
13:02 <n54> somewhere in bc not sure where
13:02 <n54> <-- bad ram
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> he talks about toronto a lot, I just assumed he lived there
13:02 <n54> might be
13:03 <Lucifer_arma> I knew he was canadian though, he brags about weed laws being different :)
13:03 <n54> lol
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13:03 <n54> betsy I'm sure you know
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> actually I don't know betsy. Unless she has a different name, but people talk about wanting her to come back every now and then.
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think I've ever played with her, though.
13:04 <n54> oh ok, well she was interesting in a way
13:04 <n54> locknessmonster? (now I'm getting really obscure)
13:05 <n54> husband of zelda iirc
13:05 <Lucifer_arma> you're getting to people who haven't played since before the fork, heh
13:05 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I showed up when the fork happened, during one of your hiatuses
13:05 <n54> nah :)
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'd guess locknessmonster as scottish and would probably be wrong, though
13:06 <n54> heh which fork are you talking about? when armagetronad was formed? you must be talking of a later one?
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> when armagetronad was formed, it was technically a fork. :)
13:06 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't show up at the fork, though, but right after 0.2.7.0 was released.
13:06 <n54> well umm I was here then but you weren't ;)
13:07 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't come to the forums right away either.
13:07 <n54> yeah took you a year or something?
13:08 <Lucifer_arma> couple of months, I think, not a year though
13:08 <n54> doesn't matter too much
13:08 <Lucifer_arma> I had my clone of eggcozy's server up that same summer, at the end of that summer, and was on the forums for that
13:08 <n54> yeah but that's just a few years ago isn't it?
13:09 <n54> I remember it
13:09 <Lucifer_arma> actually, for unrelated reasons, I remember the time period very well. I started in July, early July, and my server was up sometime in september
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, couple of years ago
13:10 <n54> did you ever play at the real armagoshdarn?
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> In november, still the same year, I registered for school
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, it went down a few months before I showed up
13:10 <n54> (not -ish)
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> I play ish's server
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> *played
13:10 <n54> heh ok, you know I had 1000+ victories as nr.1 there? ;)
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, I preferred that server to eggcozy's, but a weird bug that wasn't fixed until 0.2.8 afaik caused my client to fail to ping ish's server
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> so I played eggcozy's instead
13:11 <n54> not armagoshdarnish but armagoshdarn
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, locutus has the last stat files on his website
13:11 <n54> ah yeah that's true
13:12 <n54> those 1000+ took at least a year iirc, probably more like one and a half going on two
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh, among my first posts on the forums, I placed my entry in sabarai's "draw my new avatar" contest. It was his picture with the head tipped open and a genie comin out of his neck,
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> pissing in his mouth
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure I made quite an impression. :)
13:13 <n54> I must have missed that one
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet if I linked it again now people would just laugh it off
13:14 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he even has it laying around
13:17 <n54> when I began playing I used my full name (noderunner n54), but I can't remember the name of the german server... *tries to remember*
13:19 <n54> perhaps it was nixda
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> nixda is an ancient server, I hear.
13:21 <n54> yeah it
13:21 <n54> yeah it has been around forever it seems
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> I played a little back in 2001, before there was a master server.
13:21 <n54> very different gamplay from armagoshdarn back then at least
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> but I did my switch to Linux right afterwards, and it was quite awhile before I had the nvidia drivers installed, so I didn't play again until then.
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> I remember it was an awesome game, lag was really bad, and I hated windows. :)
13:22 <n54> :)
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> I probably would have played it straight through to now if I'd have gotten the nvidia drivers installed right away, though.
13:22 <n54> hmm most people need breaks :)
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> do they?
13:23 <n54> or perhaps need is the wrong word, want
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right. want.
13:23 <n54> might depend on how much one plays
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm managing about three hours a week right now.
13:23 <n54> hehe yeah but you're busy
13:24 <n54> school and family and so on
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, yeah. take out school and family and I'd probably play whenever I wasn't working.
13:24 <n54> yeah that explains it, then you'ld have a burnout too ;)
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I've had periods of intense play.
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I guess it's just one of those things that balances itself for me.
13:25 <n54> yup
13:25 <n54> and that's good :)
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> probably helps that I'm watching my neighbor's marriage deteriorate in part because the husband just plays worlds of warcraft all the time, never does anything else.
13:26 <n54> :S
13:26 <n54> it's trange but wow doesn't seem remotely tempting to me
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> I couldn't be less interested in that game, to be honest
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> sure, if I was still 16 with nothing to do, I'd probably love it.
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> one of the reasons I like armagetron so much is because I can play it for whatever length of time I want, be it 5 minutes or 5 hours, and it's fun for the whole time.
13:28 <n54> I liked warcraft2 but 3 was a letdown for me and wow I've just ignored
13:28 <n54> yes absolutely agree, armagetron is very nice that way
13:28 <Lucifer_arma> not many games are like that. :)
13:28 <n54> all ways actually imo
13:28 <n54> true
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> and to be honest, if it weren't for the internet play, armagetron wouldn't be like that at all, it'd be a 10 minute timekiller
13:29 <n54> yup
13:29 <n54> although i think that might change, sp has potential too with the stuff you guys are doing
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> haha. You know why I'm so interested in improving single player mode?
13:30 <n54> nope
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> my school doesn't have wireless internet!
13:30 <n54> :)
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> So during those 5-10 minutes before the teacher shows up, I've got nothing to do and a booted computer sitting in front of me
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I found some nice tactics that work very well and consistently against the AIs
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> then I found that those same tactics are good blocking tactics over on fortress
13:32 <n54> have you fooled around with ai's?
13:32 <n54> with the*
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> no, I admit I haven't, but I'd really like to
13:32 <n54> changing their setting I mean
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, done that.
13:32 <n54> it's a breeze
13:32 <n54> ah ok
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> I used to have the server that was fun even with the AIs. :)
13:33 * n54 has his ai's named by the setting combo
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> heh
13:33 * Lucifer_arma names his AIs after sins in the bible
13:33 <n54> makes for very "computer-like" names :)
13:33 <Lucifer_arma> of course, now that I'm moving away from the hell-themed server, I'll probably look for new ai names
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> which reminds me, I need to hurry up and finish this server upgrade so I can get my game server back up.
13:34 <n54> :)
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'll run it under an alias for a little while
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> why the hell does koffice take so long to build?
13:35 <n54> old 80ies x-files on tv *might be distracted*
13:35 <n54> no idea never built it (or used it)
13:35 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g 735/907
13:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 735 / 907 = 0.810363837
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> I don't need koffice
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> ok, killed the koffice build
13:39 <n54> :)
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I was doing the math wrong
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g (735+9)/907
13:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (735 + 9) / 907 = 0.820286659
13:53 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:59 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
14:14 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
14:16 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if i disappear i usually use trhe /away command
14:17 <wrtlprnft> uh, but did i miss anything?
14:17 <wrtlprnft> i tape philippeqc's problems disappeared
14:18 <n54> yeah afaik they did
14:19 <wrtlprnft> s/tape/take
14:19 <n54> :)
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> we need a configure check for distcc now
14:37 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: don't make cValue::Base a template class...
14:40 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: if you do you won't have one pointer type that can point to all kinds of tValue objects
14:41 <wrtlprnft> except void*, that is, but you don't want that
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g (741+12)/907
15:16 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (741 + 12) / 907 = 0.830209482
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> #g (744+14)/907
16:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (744 + 14) / 907 = 0.835722161
16:15 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: Sveasoft's practices are illegal
16:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: Nothing wrong with charging for GPL'd software-- in fact, FSF encourages it
16:26 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: their pratises HAVE been illegal
16:26 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: AFAIK they are legal now
16:26 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: are they?
16:26 <Luke-Jr> when did that change?
16:27 <joda_bot> They corrected their distribution methods.. but there is a lot of misinformation around so I might be wrong
16:28 <joda_bot> I just know that there are more non-"free" releases
16:28 <Luke-Jr> so I can sign up, download the bleeding edge Talisman (or whatever it is now) and source, and publish them on my webpage, and still be a member?
16:28 <wrtlprnft> wow, my spam filter got really good... I just checked on my last week's mail and all of it got sorted correctly :)
16:28 <joda_bot> They don't open their beta to public afaik
16:28 <wrtlprnft> (just offtopic)
16:28 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: no I guess that's not possible
16:28 <Luke-Jr> then they're in violation
16:28 <joda_bot> But many open source companies accepted their interpretation
16:28 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I don't even worry about mine anymore =p
16:29 <wrtlprnft> well, once in a while i do a sanity check
16:29 <wrtlprnft> to see if it didn't sort out a whole bunch of non- spam mails
16:29 <Luke-Jr> too much spam for me to do that now
16:30 <wrtlprnft> well, i just check the titles
16:30 <wrtlprnft> 2789 spam mails since 2001 :o
16:30 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: anyway, I do think the 'sell bleeding edge experimental releases' method would work well
16:31 <Luke-Jr> too bad nobody else seems interested in trying it
16:31 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3868
16:31 <Luke-Jr> (obviously, nothing would tie us to continue it if it turned out lame)
16:31 <joda_bot> If you're interested in it, perhaps you should put in some effort yourself ? ;)
16:31 <joda_bot> if you volunteer to build the releases, I guess no one minds to discuss how to give it a try
16:32 <joda_bot> but if you propose it and it's more work for z-man I can understand that he is not happy
16:33 <wrtlprnft> all things i saw Luke-Jr propose yet were more work for somebody else than him
16:33 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: it would require cooperation from the whole team
16:33 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: not really; the release process mostly stays the same, except for the people who do the actual sales
16:33 <Luke-Jr> I'd certainly be willing to do my part there
16:34 <Luke-Jr> releases are built the same regardless of distribution
16:34 <joda_bot> lol, Luke-Jr but you're proposing more build work or atleast delayed releases for the public and I don't like the idea of that
16:34 <Luke-Jr> no more build work
16:35 <Luke-Jr> and the public has the option to buy the release
16:35 <Luke-Jr> the only additional work needed would be 1) artwork and 2) sales/distribution
16:35 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:36 <z-man-home> aww, crap, forgot to rename z-man-work
16:36 <Luke-Jr> hehe
16:36 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:36 <z-man-home> wait, shouldn't there be some dcop thing I could use?
16:36 <Luke-Jr> yes
16:36 <wrtlprnft> if z-man-home is z-man at home and z-man-work is z-man at work, where is z-man then?
16:37 <z-man-home> well, wherever I am, usually
16:37 <wrtlprnft> mars?
16:37 <z-man-home> unless I forget to rename the one where I'm not going to be soon from now
16:37 <Luke-Jr> so anyway, I don't see why the objection to at least *trying* the sell-bleeding-edge-experimentals scheme
16:37 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: z-man driving home ;)
16:37 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:37 <wrtlprnft> don't drive and chat
16:38 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: because people get pissed if you sell them buggy software?
16:39 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: experimental releases are supposed to get some testing
16:39 <wrtlprnft> well, they would know the software is buggy
16:39 <wrtlprnft> and they'd buy the artwork
16:39 <z-man-home> So you think they'd willingly buy software they know is buggy?
16:40 <z-man-home> We'd need a marketing department :)
16:40 <wrtlprnft> COULD be buggy
16:40 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
16:40 <Luke-Jr> it wouldn't be too buggy, I'd hope
16:40 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:40 <wrtlprnft> CVS HEAD segfaults every time you quit for me
16:40 <wrtlprnft> that's not buggy?
16:40 <z-man-home> If it doesn't get tested by regular, non-buying users, it will be buggy, you can rely on that.
16:40 <joda_bot> ArmagetronAd XP ;)
16:40 <z-man-home> joda_bot: :)
16:40 <wrtlprnft> ArmagetronAd Vista!
16:40 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: HEAD isn't a release
16:41 <z-man-home> Or Armagetron Revolution (codename) later renamed to Armagetron Wii!
16:41 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: that depends on the number of users buying, which I expect *might* be more than the number downloading
16:41 <Luke-Jr> the number dling otherwise*
16:41 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:41 <z-man-home> but once they bought it, it's too late to fix the bugs :)
16:42 <Luke-Jr> how so?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> MORE people will buy than download=!
16:42 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: remember, most people will be downloading stable
16:42 <z-man-home> because the bugs are then already on the CD people have
16:42 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: any bugs would already be on the download they have with gratis releases
16:43 <Luke-Jr> anyway, we would still do minimal testing to be sure it's playable =p
16:43 <z-man-home> Yes, but that's gratis
16:43 <Luke-Jr> if there's a bug that makes 0.3.0 unplayable on certain systems, we can always grant those users a 0.3.1 download
16:44 <Luke-Jr> maybe even a CD
16:44 <joda_bot> The only way I can see this stuff to work
16:44 <joda_bot> Let them buy preminum support
16:44 <joda_bot> ;)
16:44 <z-man-home> hehe
16:44 <joda_bot> And Luke provides it ... as long as he wants to
16:44 <wrtlprnft> so if we find 3 bugs, we send everyone 4 CDs?
16:44 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as MarketingDepartm
16:44 <z-man-home> I simply see absolutely NO logic to selling experimental releases, yet giving out stable releases for free.
16:45 <joda_bot> Users: "I want this bug fixed", "I want to report bugs easily"
16:45 <wrtlprnft> hi MarketingDepartm :D
16:45 <MarketingDepartm> you don't sell buggy software if you want repeat business
16:45 * MarketingDepartm Lucifer_arma
16:45 <MarketingDepartm> haha
16:45 -!- MarketingDepartm is now known as Lucifer_arma
16:45 <joda_bot> I might just simply but that subscriptions and add my jobs to it ;)
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> in a previous incarnation, I did marketing
16:45 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: if it affects every user, we'd have caught it pre-shipping
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> so here we go, the marketing flunkie has arrived
16:45 <joda_bot> but = buy :-P
16:45 <wrtlprnft> so how do you find out which user is affected?
16:46 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the ones that complain they can't play it
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> the only logic to selling buggy software goes like this:
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> 1. You ship it alongside the stable version :)
16:46 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: remember, this is for bugs making the game *unplayable*
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> 2. It's some sort of super "I get the latest development version" thing
16:46 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: we could easily fit stable, too
16:46 <Luke-Jr> point #2 is why I think we might get more sales than otherwise gratis downloads ;)
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> however, if you ship the development release for money, a release that's intended for bug fixing and development work by our large group of third party extenders,
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> people will expect it to perform like production-level software, which it is not
16:47 <Luke-Jr> maybe we could have a forum for users who purchased the game in the past year, and get higher-priority support too
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> when I say some sort of super "I get the latest development version" thing, I'm not talking about a software package
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> I'm talking about a system where they will *always* have the latest development version
16:48 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: experimental releases aren't for bug checking-- that's beta
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> that means some automated build system (which they already have free access to)
16:48 <wrtlprnft> what about putting ads in our stable releases and sell ad-free versions?
16:48 <wrtlprnft> like opera
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> so we don't fix bugs as we go?
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> huh?
16:48 <Luke-Jr> experimental are to get feature-incomplete builds out there to test *conceptual* flaws and such
16:48 <wrtlprnft> jk, of course
16:48 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: we fix bugs any time, but that's not the purpose of non-beta
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> you guys are letting the dollar signs cloud your vision
16:49 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I'd hope so, nobody would like that =p
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> well we sure in the hell don't wait till beta to look for bugs
16:49 <wrtlprnft> I'm just lol about Luke-Jr's visions
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> I wont' bother digging out the thread, you can find it yourself, but one of the stated reasons for having a development series in the first place is for extended testing, to involve the community in testing
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> there are many stated reasons for having a development series, but that is probably one of the biggest reasons, if not the biggest reason
16:50 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: non-latest experimental would be gratis downloads either way
16:50 <z-man-home> Wait, isn't this another case of Luke-Jr arguing against the rest of the world?
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> and the simple fact is, people don't pay to be shit on.
16:50 * joda_bot is ashamed as z-man is the one fixing most bugs ;)
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> and paying for software that is known to contain bugs is being shit on
16:50 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: regardless of paid or gratis, experimental releases shouldn't have any major bugs
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, this is a case of luke arguing against the rest of the world
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> DO I LOOK STUPID ENOUGH TO SUGGEST SELLING THE DEVELOPMENT SERIES??
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> now then.
16:51 <wrtlprnft> it was actually my suggestion, but i meant it as a joke
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go do some dishes and cut up the chicken.
16:51 * wrtlprnft notices his error and goes into a corner, ashamed
16:52 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:52 <Luke-Jr> like I pointed out earlier, if it doesn't work we can always discontinue it
16:52 <wrtlprnft> i just read "and cut up the children"
16:52 <Luke-Jr> it's not like we're tied to any one distribution method
16:52 <wrtlprnft> darn sun, can't see too well
16:52 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: !!!
16:53 * Luke-Jr mental note not to let wrtlprnft around his kids
16:53 <wrtlprnft> don't have kids yet
16:53 <Luke-Jr> sure I do
16:53 <wrtlprnft> oh, your kids, ok
16:54 <wrtlprnft> next will be "... and put the chicken to bed"
16:55 <Luke-Jr> anyway, if someone could bring up a point as to why the sell-experimental wouldn't be worth trying, I'd go ahead and attempt to figure out a solution...
16:56 * wrtlprnft would release a detailed manual on how to compile CVS on windows
16:56 <wrtlprnft> like a cookbook
16:56 * wrtlprnft would put the artwork online since it would have to be GPL'd
16:56 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: missing market ;)
16:56 <wrtlprnft> that's why it's not worth trying :P
16:57 <wrtlprnft> or, actually i should switch to SVN
16:57 * wrtlprnft would release a detailed manual on how to compile SVN HEAD on windows
16:57 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: that can only be determined by trial
16:58 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: GPL doesn't mean it needs to be online
16:58 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: no you can pay someone for it, or just use your brain ;)
16:58 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: most are casual players, or kids
16:58 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: no, but it means you can't prevent me from putting it online
16:58 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:58 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:59 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: Kids don't have bills to pay
16:59 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: nope, but usually that requires people to regret the purchase
16:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: If you find a cross platform app that allows to work with cvs / svn and offers eclipse like Merge support ... contact me right away ;)
16:59 <Luke-Jr> (posting something online when the developers prefer otherwise)
17:00 <wrtlprnft> *when one deleloper prefers otherwise
17:00 <joda_bot> except eclipse of course ;)
17:00 <wrtlprnft> uh, no clue...
17:01 <wrtlprnft> maybe there will be a google dev system with ajax one day :P
17:20 * Lucifer_arma wonders why we should try doing something that has been tried quite a few times in the past and failed
17:21 * Lucifer_arma wonders why we (read: Luke-Jr) can't learn from other people's mistakes, and we (read: Luke-Jr) insist on making those same mistakes ourselves.
17:24 <wrtlprnft> because we (read: Luke-Jr) like making mistakes?
17:24 <wrtlprnft> because we (read: Luke-Jr) are a bit off reality?
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> tel you what, I'll post the big long post that describes our target audience, but I'm in the midst of cooking dinner right now
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> so it'll have to wait a little bit
17:33 <wrtlprnft> because we (read: Luke-Jr) think we (read: Luke-Jr) are better than everyone who tried that yet and just made a mistake elsewhere?
17:33 * wrtlprnft loves reading big long posts
17:34 <wrtlprnft> well, cya, i was /away all the time anyways
17:42 -!- z-man-home is now known as z-man-bed
17:42 -!- z-man [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:42 <z-man-bed> woot?
17:42 <z-man-bed> That's a lie!
17:43 <z-man-bed> my PC at work seems to have gone down.
17:43 <z-man-bed> Well, goodbye, CVS Test
17:44 <z-man-bed> Ah, no, just one of those network glitches
17:44 -!- z-man-bed is now known as z-man
17:44 <z-man> Better steal back my nickname while it lasts :)
17:45 <z-man> Well, now I'm really going to bed. I'll time out here.
17:47 <armabot> Random Fortune: Disclaimer: "These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be || yours too." || -- Dave Haynie
17:50 <Vanhayes> #fortune
17:50 <armabot> Random Fortune: BOFH Excuse #173: || Recursive traversal of loopback mount points
17:51 <armabot> Random Fortune: BOFH Excuse #332: || suboptimal routing experience
17:51 <Vanhayes> lol
17:52 <Vanhayes> better now
17:53 <Vanhayes> should have seen it before pings were 500 and up
17:54 <Vanhayes> hey spidey what IRC client do u use? Mirc?
17:54 <Vanhayes> lol o
17:55 <Vanhayes> know of any good free ones for windows?
17:56 <Lucifer_arma> #g (774+15)/907
17:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (774 + 15) / 907 = 0.869900772
17:56 <Lucifer_arma> nearing 30 hours, I think :(
17:56 <Vanhayes> xchat is completly free?
17:57 <Vanhayes> ok thx this one is almost up
17:58 <Vanhayes> mIRC is free trial
17:58 <Vanhayes> like 4 days left
17:58 <Vanhayes> dont wanna pay 20$
18:00 <Vanhayes> only 995 here...
18:01 <Vanhayes> third time its happened I think
18:01 <Vanhayes> i'm still on tho
18:02 <Vanhayes> heh
18:04 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
18:05 <Vanhayes> brb gonna try xchat
18:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:05 <Vanhayes> ypdates?
18:05 <Vanhayes> updates*
18:05 <Vanhayes> for what?
18:06 <Vanhayes> ok brb
18:06 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has quit []
18:09 -!- Nazurath [n=Josh@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:12 <Nazurath> what kind?
18:13 <Nazurath> xchat looks pretty good thx
18:14 <Nazurath> wondering why my name isnt Vanhayes tho...
18:15 <Nazurath> windows
18:15 <Nazurath> xp
18:15 <Nazurath> ?
18:16 <Nazurath> EXEC The system cannot find the file specified.
18:16 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:19 <Nazurath> k
18:19 <Nazurath> Pinging 127.0.0.1 with 32 bytes of data:
18:19 <Nazurath> Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
18:19 <Nazurath> Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
18:19 <Nazurath> Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
18:19 <Nazurath> Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
18:19 <Nazurath> Ping statistics for 127.0.0.1:
18:19 <Nazurath> Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
18:19 <Nazurath> Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
18:19 <Nazurath> Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
18:19 <Nazurath> what does that do?
18:21 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
18:29 <Nazurath> so spidey, this is only 30 day trial or does that even matter?
18:30 <Nazurath> for xchat
18:33 <Nazurath> hmm
18:33 <Nazurath> says mine is a 30 day trial
18:35 -!- Nazurath [n=Josh@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:35 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g (830+17)/907
18:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (830 + 17) / 907 = 0.93384785
19:10 <Vanhayes> #fortune
19:10 <armabot> Random Fortune: BOFH Excuse #241: || _Rosin_ core solder? But...
19:23 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
19:23 <ghableska> hello
19:23 <Vanhayes> hey ghab
19:23 <joda_bot> ghableska: hi
19:23 <ghableska> hi Vanhayes, joda_bot
19:24 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
19:31 * ghableska just downloaded WMP 11
19:33 <Vanhayes> wmp 11?
19:34 <Vanhayes> what is that?
19:34 <ghableska> windows media player
19:34 <ghableska> it's shiny ;)
19:34 <ghableska> well, it got shinier
19:34 <ghableska> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/11/default.aspx
19:34 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:35 <Vanhayes> any good?
19:35 <ghableska> not much
19:35 <ghableska> it just looks better
19:35 <ghableska> i use iTunes for music though...
19:36 <Vanhayes> doesnt that cost money tho?
19:36 <ghableska> well, you can import songs from cd'
19:36 <ghableska> s
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=49781#49781
19:39 <Luke-Jr> any reason to get cat6 over cat5e?
19:40 -!- feed_emus [n=matt@69.29.22.128] has joined #armagetron
19:43 <Lucifer_arma> I always ended up smelling like pussy
19:51 <Luke-Jr> sucks
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> hi there Mr. Sucks.
19:52 * Lucifer_arma loves Red Dwarf :)
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> #g (834+18)/907
19:53 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (834 + 18) / 907 = 0.939360529
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> 94% done and it's building firefox. :(
19:59 -!- feed_emus [n=matt@69.29.22.128] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
20:02 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:03 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> wb guru3
20:05 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:08 <Luke-Jr> too bad nobody produces digital cameras with open source firmware
20:08 <Luke-Jr> guess we'll need to stick with analog
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> good old open source analog
20:10 * Lucifer_arma notes that when you're talking about cameras, it's called "film", not analog.
20:10 <Luke-Jr> whatever =p
20:10 <Luke-Jr> at least it has theoretically infinite resolution =p
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> no it doesn't, it's limited by the number of molecules on the film
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> because it's a chemical process :)
20:12 <Luke-Jr> ok, compared to digital then
20:12 <Lucifer_arma> digital camera technology is quite young compared to film technology, which is over 150 years old
20:13 <Lucifer_arma> so it's both unreasonable to expect a young technology like digital cameras to meet or exceed the older one, and it's quite amazing how fast it got competitive
20:13 <Lucifer_arma> it's safe to say that digital will easily outpace film in resolution
20:13 <Lucifer_arma> if it hasn't already. The last two star wars movies were beautiful--shot with digital cameras
20:14 <Luke-Jr> they're both beyond what the naked eye can discern
20:14 <Luke-Jr> the only relevance is in zooming post-picture
20:14 <Lucifer_arma> the problems are in scaling upward in size
20:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that :)
20:14 <Lucifer_arma> it also matters when you need to retouch a bad shot, the more data that's there the better job you can do
20:15 <Luke-Jr> true
20:15 <Luke-Jr> the only sucky thing with sticking to film, that I can see, is that WalMart's digital copies are like 1.7 MP
20:15 <Lucifer_arma> I've personally noticed that if I take the pictures off my camera and shrink them by a factor of about 3/4 I get really beautiful, clear, crisp pictures
20:16 <Lucifer_arma> and they're just shot off, to boot. Going to digital lets you compose the picture yourself, giving a much better opportunity for a high quality digital shot
20:16 <Luke-Jr> ?
20:16 <Lucifer_arma> you ever develop film?
20:23 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-034-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> #g (839+20)/907
20:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (839 + 20) / 907 = 0.94707828
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g (841+24)/907
20:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (841 + 24) / 907 = 0.953693495
20:47 <Lucifer_arma> #g (843+34)/907
20:47 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (843 + 34) / 907 = 0.966923925
21:04 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090B2DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:12 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@80.144.174.125] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:38 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:39 <wrtlprnft> looks like i missed some messages
21:39 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034190032.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 17:47 <armabot> Random Fortune: ...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 17:50 <Vanhayes> #fortune
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 17:50 <armabot> Random Fortune: ...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 17:51 <armabot> Random Fortune: ...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> weird
21:40 <wrtlprnft> or, wait
21:40 <wrtlprnft> spidey: you're there
21:40 <wrtlprnft> stupid ignore lists i guess
21:41 <wrtlprnft> spidey: if you're here, can you post a test message?
21:51 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
21:58 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: the function of the group of players and the money they'll donate doesn't have a limit of 0. Players of group 3 (Say: Luke-Jr) obviously want to get money, so the value is negative :P
21:59 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090C0BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
22:04 <spidey> eetrt
22:04 <spidey> and that got me killed
22:04 <spidey> for now on this box goes in screensaver mode
22:04 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:04 <spidey> <,<
22:04 <spidey> playing ct fortress
22:04 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:04 <spidey> whatchya need?
22:05 <wrtlprnft> oh, I'm fine now
22:05 <wrtlprnft> just realized that you were still silenced
22:05 <spidey> :|
22:05 <wrtlprnft> i was kinda surprised how armabot spit out fortunes without anyone telling her to
22:06 <spidey> linux has a fortune cmd
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i know
22:07 <spidey> Love is in the offing. Be affectionate to one who adores you.
22:07 <spidey> I've touch'd the highest point of all my greatness;
22:07 <spidey> And from that full meridian of my glory
22:07 <spidey> I haste now to my setting. I shall fall,
22:07 <spidey> Like a bright exhalation in the evening
22:07 <spidey> And no man see me more.
22:07 <spidey> -- Shakespeare
22:07 <wrtlprnft> guess what that alias uses
22:07 <spidey> :p
22:07 <spidey> fortune?
22:07 <spidey> :p
22:07 <wrtlprnft> yes :D
22:07 <wrtlprnft> with some custom command parameters
22:07 <spidey> ok i'm putting this box in screensaver
22:08 <wrtlprnft> fortune 2% law 2% perl 2% work 5% drugs 8% riddles 5% linux 2% magic 5% kernelcookies 5% science 5% computers 5% fortunes 5% cookie 10% hitchhiker translate-me 5% bofh-excuses 5% definitions 5% linuxcookie startrek ethnic 3% futurama strangelove 1% tao 3% homer starwars 5% paradoxum -s -n 300
22:08 <spidey> you're getting me killed :p
22:08 <wrtlprnft> :P
22:08 <spidey> Your motives for doing whatever good deed you may have in mind will be
22:08 <spidey> misinterpreted by somebody.
22:08 <spidey> Today is what happened to yesterday.
22:08 <spidey> Linux version 2.6.12-9-386 (buildd@rothera) (gcc version 3.4.5 20050809 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 3.4.4-6ubuntu8)) #1 Mon Oct 10 13:14:36 BST 2005
22:09 <wrtlprnft> .12? stone age!
22:09 <spidey> lol
22:09 <wrtlprnft> Linux laptop 2.6.16.5 #8 PREEMPT Sat May 6 15:47:57 CDT 2006 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1300MHz GNU/Linux
22:09 <wrtlprnft> kernel 2.6.16.18 is installed, just needs a reboot
22:09 <spidey> 1300mhz? stone age!
22:10 <spidey> cat: /proc/cpuinf: No such file or directory
22:10 <wrtlprnft> so it will be in effect whenever i forget to plug my laptop in next time
22:10 <spidey> processor : 0
22:10 <spidey> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
22:10 <spidey> cpu family : 15
22:10 <spidey> model : 2
22:10 <spidey> model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
22:10 <spidey> stepping : 9
22:10 <spidey> cpu MHz : 2393.438
22:10 <spidey> cache size : 128 KB
22:10 <spidey> fdiv_bug : no
22:10 <spidey> hlt_bug : no
22:10 <spidey> f00f_bug : no
22:10 <spidey> coma_bug : no
22:10 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:10 <spidey> fpu : yes
22:10 <spidey> fpu_exception : yes
22:10 <spidey> cpuid level : 2
22:10 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/
22:10 <spidey> wp : yes
22:10 <spidey> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid xtpr
22:10 <spidey> bogomips : 4734.97
22:10 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/
22:10 <spidey> cat /proc/cpuinfo
22:10 <spidey> :p
22:10 <deja_vu_> model name : Pentium II (Deschutes)
22:10 <deja_vu_> cpu MHz : 391.964
22:10 <deja_vu_> :P
22:10 <wrtlprnft> well
22:11 <spidey> lol
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that's the same as my server :P
22:11 <wrtlprnft> well, not quite
22:11 <wrtlprnft> cpu MHz : 398.816
22:11 <wrtlprnft> mine is faster!!!111oneone
22:11 <deja_vu_> ^^
22:12 <wrtlprnft> #g 398.816 - 391.964
22:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 398.81600 - 391.96400 = 6.85200
22:12 <spidey> well
22:12 <wrtlprnft> by a whopping 6.852 MHz
22:12 <spidey> my sevrer has a 2.19ghz p4
22:12 <deja_vu_> my server has 233MHz *.*
22:12 <spidey> lol
22:12 <spidey> my ibm has 700mhz
22:13 <spidey> and 48mb of ram
22:13 <spidey> :/
22:13 <deja_vu_> ^^
22:13 <wrtlprnft> well, it doesn't need to be much faster
22:13 <wrtlprnft> the only time it annoys me is when compiling my arma server
22:13 <wrtlprnft> gGame.cpp takes like 40 seconds to compile
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22:16 <spidey> is it just me
22:16 <spidey> or is cvs not on the list?
22:17 <wrtlprnft> uh, z-man said something about a network failure
22:18 <wrtlprnft> he can't reach his uni machine
22:18 <wrtlprnft> ie probably no cvs fortress, sumo, or spoon for the weekend
22:18 <spidey> no
22:18 <wrtlprnft> and probably no more cvs fortress forever
22:18 <spidey> i can custmom connect
22:18 <wrtlprnft> if it comes back it will be svn fortress
22:18 <wrtlprnft> nvm then
23:09 <n54> model name : Pentium II (Deschutes) cpu MHz : 347.763 ^^ this machine
23:11 <n54> omg super-long post by Lucifer
23:11 * n54 just woke up and should shower and breakfast
Log from 2006-05-27:
--- Day changed Sat May 27 2006
01:39 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087072D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:39 <n54> good morning :)
01:43 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:14 <z-man> morning
02:24 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
02:25 <philippeqc> hi
02:31 <n54> hi philippeqc :)
02:31 <philippeqc> how are you
02:32 <n54> a bit stressed :)
02:32 * n54 is taking a break from washing windows
02:32 <philippeqc> washing windows shouldnt induce stress unless you live over the 7th floor
02:33 * n54 lives on 7th
02:34 <n54> but it's the illness that causes it, not the height ^^
02:34 <philippeqc> o ok
02:36 <philippeqc> sit down with a good book, take a long warm bath, or maybe just breathing deeply. Few things are worth carriying stress for.
02:36 <philippeqc> and healing will have to take its time
02:37 <n54> nah I got to it now (I'm halfway done) and then I have to take some pictures & stuff for the owner of the flat because they're going to do stuff here on monday
02:37 <n54> it will be ok :)
02:38 * n54 gets back to it
02:39 <philippeqc> ok
02:40 <Luke-Jr> BLA
02:50 <philippeqc> hi Luke-Jr
02:57 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8811.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:09 <z-man> Any debian experts around?
03:10 <z-man> Or shell scripting gurus?
03:10 <z-man> I've got this strange problem. When you do on the shell prompt with bash:
03:10 <z-man> some_command &
03:10 <z-man> jobs -p
03:11 <z-man> then you get the PID of the just backgrounded some_command printed.
03:11 <z-man> Now, in debian sarge, and only there, you don't get anything printed if you do that in a shell script.
03:11 <z-man> It works on the command line, too, but not in a script.
03:11 <z-man> Any clue?
03:12 <philippeqc> could it be something of the sort that it sends it to stderr rather than stdout?
03:12 <z-man> no, stderr shows nothing as well
03:12 <philippeqc> (quite at loss here)
03:12 <philippeqc> ok
03:13 <z-man> Alternatively, is there a way to kill a whole process tree, i.e. a shell script and all the programs it has started?
03:14 <z-man> Cause if I kill a shell script that is just executing a long-running command, that long-running command isn't killed :(
03:15 * z-man goes to post this on the forum, it's probalby not IRC material
03:15 <philippeqc> kill -p doesnt send any signals. It simply returns the process id of the named process
03:16 <philippeqc> could that work as an alternative for jobs -p for you?
03:23 <z-man> -bash: kill: p: invalid signal specification
03:24 <z-man> that's what I get on "kill -p"
03:28 <philippeqc> yes I got the same here on mandriva
03:39 <philippeqc> I'm stuck back on the problem with tValue.{h,cpp} Base:
03:41 <philippeqc> I want to expand the classes to be able to return collections (in this instances std::set), and to support operations on them in the form of sub-class (union, intersection, difference)
03:43 <philippeqc> I wanted to expand all the classes, starting from Base, to support this. The way I did it was to have all the class be templates.
03:44 <z-man> Sorry, I haven't looked at tValue yet.
03:44 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft pointed out that if Base is a template, it is no longer possible to have easy pointers to it
03:45 <z-man> Yes, to do these tricks, you've got to have a fixed base class.
03:45 <z-man> You could write an adapter that does that:
03:45 <philippeqc> yes, but then how do I do the get set operation in a meaningfull way
03:45 <z-man> have a fixed class tValueWrapper
03:46 <z-man> derive from that a template class tValueWrapper
03:46 <z-man> err
03:46 <z-man> have a fixed class tIValueWrapper
03:46 <z-man> derive from that a template class tValueWrapper
03:46 <z-man> (note the added I)
03:46 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8811.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:46 <z-man> tValueWrapper<T> wraps a pointer to a tValue<T>
03:46 <z-man> and manages it.
03:46 <z-man> Your code works with tIValueWrapper base pointers only
03:47 * z-man admins that he doesn't know the real code or problem or task, but he likes adaptors :)
03:47 <z-man> admits
03:48 <philippeqc> ok
03:49 <philippeqc> i feel it goes back to the "new" problem I have. Now tIValueWrapper should expose a method to get the collection/set.
03:50 <philippeqc> and I dont know how to deal with the return type at this point.
03:51 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8811.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:52 <z-man> Right, getting concrete types back from generic containers is a pain. You'd have to use some ugly dynamic_casting.
03:52 <z-man> And I mean the user of your classes has to do it.
03:53 <philippeqc> the class will use itself a lot.
03:54 * philippeqc googled about adaptor
03:56 <philippeqc> frankly, I'm not sure I get the finer points of your presented method past the "it hides the template in a sub-class"
04:28 <z-man> Sorry. I'll try to have a look at tValue and try to tell you more after rc2 is done.
04:28 <philippeqc> np, I have my nose deep into book atm, so I'll understand any advise you will give me. ;)
04:28 <philippeqc> rc2 is much more important
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06:19 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087072D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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07:06 <madmax|pt> hello
07:07 <n54> hi
07:22 <n54> been quiet here for about three hours *imagines everybody is busy busy busy* :) (I am)
08:09 -!- Nixda211 [n=d47554f7@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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08:34 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:34 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: > Is there any hope for me? Am I just thick? Does anyone remember the || > Rubiks Cube, it was easier! || I found that the Rubiks cube and Linux are alike. Looks real confusing || until you read the right book. :-) || -- seen on c.o.l.misc, about the "Linux Learning Curve"
08:35 <n54> morning wrtlprnft
09:05 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
09:05 <philippeqc> back
09:07 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: got your note from yesterday, but now I'm totally lost about the way to proceed
09:08 <z-man> Release process report: build went fine, compatibility testing proceeding
09:08 <philippeqc> good
--- Log opened Sat May 27 09:11:53 2006
09:11 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
09:11 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
09:11 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
09:19 <philippeqc> hi wrtlprnft
09:24 <philippeqc> oups, I confused the re-log bot
09:25 <philippeqc> I think my struggle is partially useless. I dont fully see how one could gain from/what it could mean to be mixing tValues with the collection I'm building. So Instead of trying to artificially merge both, I'll make them independant. And if the need arise at a later time, we will be able to find simple adaptors that will transform from one to the other.
09:58 * Lucifer_arma rubs eyes
09:58 * Lucifer_arma notices the t2 build is finished
10:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
10:09 * Lucifer_arma yawns
10:13 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: uh, why don't you make it a set of tValues?
10:14 * philippeqc ponders
10:14 <wrtlprnft> that would be way easier i think
10:15 <philippeqc> union of 2 set of tValues should be arranged by the tValues's content, and not by the tValues themself
10:15 <wrtlprnft> if you think so ;)
10:16 <wrtlprnft> oops, scratch that last line
10:16 <philippeqc> I'm very dependant on the ability to do union, intersection, difference and other such operations.
10:16 <wrtlprnft> well, that's why you need to write some kind of wrapper
10:17 <wrtlprnft> it would take a function pointer to the function to use for comparing the values
10:18 <wrtlprnft> so you could use something like union(set1, set2, &tValue::Base::GetFloat);
10:18 <wrtlprnft> or with iterators, however you like it
10:18 <philippeqc> doesnt get the wrapper comment. N(ode)1 {5, 6, 7}, N2 {6, 7, 8, 9} then the tCol(N1, N2) should be able to return {6, 7}
10:18 <philippeqc> yes
10:19 <wrtlprnft> do whatever you think is best, I'm sure i'll like it once it's done :)
10:22 <philippeqc> set_union operates from 4 iterators. I still havent seen any similar algorithm that would allow me to do the union (method/funtion/object) you suggest
10:22 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't deque and the others have union and all these other things?
10:22 <philippeqc> your structure makes lots of sence, I'm really not contesting it.
10:23 <philippeqc> set has it, but it operates on the data stored in the set.
10:23 <Lucifer_arma> so you just need to provide the comparison function
10:23 <philippeqc> now I'd need to fool it to operate on the data hold inside the elements
10:23 * Lucifer_arma thought it worked on a comparison function you provide
10:24 * Lucifer_arma could be mixing it up with python
10:24 * philippeqc kisses lucifer
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> yay, I have two iso images now
10:24 * Lucifer_arma kisses philippeqc
10:24 <wrtlprnft> #whoisshe Lucifer_arma
10:24 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: z-man is the girl for you!
10:24 <wrtlprnft> aww
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> haha
10:24 <wrtlprnft> stupid armabot
10:24 <philippeqc> lol
10:24 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-in-drag
10:24 <wrtlprnft> http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/cplusplus17.html#l301
10:25 <wrtlprnft> look at the second prototype...
10:25 <philippeqc> yep, that is why i'm kissing lucifer
10:25 * Lucifer_arma clicks the link to find out why he was kissed
10:25 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok, i was thinking about it all the time :P
10:26 * wrtlprnft slaps wrtlprnft for not saying that earlier ;)
10:26 <philippeqc> set_union support working from a comparision function!!!
10:26 * philippeqc kisses wrtlprnft too. I got much loving to spread
10:26 <wrtlprnft> o_O
10:26 * Lucifer_arma kisses his two iso images
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> I've been waiting for two days for these, now I don't know if I should try them or just look at them
10:27 -!- z-man-in-drag is now known as z-man
10:27 <philippeqc> been waiting for ~2 days to meet wrtlprnft so he could slap some sence into my cave-man brain.
10:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
10:27 <wrtlprnft> aww
10:27 <wrtlprnft> I can't change the topic :(
10:27 <Lucifer_arma> I better test in qemu first, I think
10:27 <wrtlprnft> /topic 0.2.8.1 has been released! | http://armagetronad.net/ | Love Is In The Air!
10:28 <n54> :o
10:28 <philippeqc> love is still in the air
10:29 * wrtlprnft kisses philippeqc for making maps possible
10:29 <philippeqc> talking about being a cave-man, I'm on my way out to grill some meat.
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> qemu: invalid option -- '--help'
10:29 <wrtlprnft> can't be that much of a cave-man brain
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, bushmeat
10:29 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: qemu -h
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> did y'all see that they think they found the origin of aids?
10:30 <Lucifer_arma> and it's in some chimps.
10:30 <philippeqc> I had a pair of glasses then. You know whay they say about people with glasses... makes 'em do the smarty things.
10:30 <Lucifer_arma> I can't help but wonder if the SIV they found turned into HIV when people ate the chimps
10:30 <wrtlprnft> someone had s** with chimps to get infected?
10:31 <philippeqc> heard the sex theory too, and I'm only counting non-urban legend references
10:31 <Lucifer_arma> bushmeat = apes for food
10:31 <Lucifer_arma> this was the Beeb, but they didn't speculate how the initial transmission happened, I just assumed the chimps were eaten
10:32 <philippeqc> was mentionning also how in polynesia, there is a disease that was spread from humans to humans.... becuase of cannibalism. Kids would come, poke around raw human brains and lick their fingers and get infected.
10:33 <philippeqc> and thus the disease transmitted itself.
10:34 <n54> yup same applies to dogs
10:34 <n54> so don't eat badly prepared dog brains ^^
10:35 <philippeqc> well, I'm off to tame a stack of burning coal with a few peice of blood filled muscle, and some veggies wrapt in luminum foil.
10:35 <n54> and monkeys have hade hiv/aids for ages
10:35 <n54> had*
10:35 <n54> enjoy :)
10:35 <philippeqc> I will now that I'm out of the mud
10:35 * n54 is off to get cancer-sticks soon
10:36 <philippeqc> see ya after mine bbq
10:36 <n54> oh mudwrestling too? you lucky pig ^_^
10:36 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, eating brains of nearly any animal is bad news, i think
10:36 <Lucifer_arma> tht's how anthrax gets passed, isn't it?
10:36 <n54> no anthrax is from soil, don't eat dirt ;)
10:38 <n54> and snow can give you worms (yes white snow, not yellow) :)
10:38 <Lucifer_arma> so you're safer to eat yellow snow?!?
10:38 <Lucifer_arma> mmm watersports
10:38 <n54> doubt it, guess it depends who made it (liek was it the local dog?) ^^
10:39 <n54> boogers are safe though, at least your own... XD
10:39 <Lucifer_arma> my wife says you can get tapeworm from your own boogers
10:40 <n54> lol
10:40 <n54> only if you already hae them :)
10:40 <n54> have*
10:40 <n54> although tapeworm usually lay their eggs in feces
10:40 <n54> tapeworms*
10:41 <n54> drinking your own urine is also ok, you wont get something you don't already have ^^
10:41 <n54> actually that's a survival tip
10:42 <n54> and of course it only works for a limited amount of time ^^
10:43 * n54 prefers a soda
10:44 * n54 thinks Lucifer is busy reading up on tapeworms and boogers :D
10:45 <n54> meh this reminds me of my x, she was told so much bs ny her father when she was little
10:45 <n54> by*
10:47 * Lucifer_arma is still waking up, so wondering around and doing stuff
10:47 <n54> modification to the thing about the healthiness of drinking urine; you could end up with sepsis after a while of course...
10:47 <n54> kidney failure etc.
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's a closed system anyway, when it's your own
10:48 <n54> yup
10:48 <n54> except for sweat
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> so as a survival tip it's probably only something that might give you another day, you relaly need water from outside
10:48 <n54> yup
10:48 <n54> it's an ultimate resort kind of thing
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> ok, two days thrown away: the boot kernel doesn't work
10:49 <wrtlprnft> :P
10:49 <n54> probably some stupid detail
10:49 <n54> was it any kind of "generic" boot kernel?
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> it might be an emulator problem
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> Unknown interrupt or fault at EIP somethingorother
10:50 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
10:50 <n54> ok, try without qemu?
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> have to reboot for that
10:50 <n54> ah ok
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, have to burn it first :)
10:51 <n54> :)
10:51 * Lucifer_arma looks for his blank CDs
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> better idea, I'll ask in the t2 channel
10:51 * n54 throws one to Luci frisbee-style
10:51 <n54> sorry about the gash on your forehead ^^
10:52 <n54> good idea
10:58 <Lucifer_arma> they check their builds in qemu too, it should work
10:58 <n54> ok
10:59 * n54 is trying to freshen up on MinGW *has forgotten whatever it was that I did the last time*
11:04 <n54> btw do you guys mostly use eclipse?
11:05 * Lucifer_arma doesn't use any big bloated ide
11:05 <n54> you use emacs? vim? kate? :)
11:06 <Lucifer_arma> kate
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'm insane. I keep trying qemu to see if it works
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, I think I'm going to waste some CDs on this and try booting on a real computer
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> but I think it'll be a waste of time, clearly I'm not thinking straight
11:08 <n54> hmm well if they use qemu and it doesn't work why waste a cd?
11:08 <n54> yup you're spinning right now - take a break then search the error message
11:10 <z-man> n54: emacs, mostly
11:10 <n54> meh I have to force myself up and out to get smokes *doesn't want to go (I'm beat) and doesn't want to not have smokes (the timer is ticking down)*
11:10 <z-man> eclipse occasionally, because I have a nice function stub generator plugin there
11:10 <wrtlprnft> gvim, only
11:10 <n54> ah ok z-man
11:10 <n54> and wrtlprnft
11:11 <n54> guess I'll just use notepad then ^"
11:11 <z-man> Release is ready to be grabbed from aabeta
11:11 <z-man> !^^^^^^!
11:11 <wrtlprnft> that means the SVN thing is starting now?
11:11 <z-man> n54: have you tried code::blocks? it's quite usable and lean
11:11 <z-man> wrtlprnft: no, that is starting precisely at the time it was announced
11:12 <n54> nope, I'm just curious reallt
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> how can it be lean when it's linked to wxWidgets? ;)
11:12 <n54> really*
11:12 <z-man> Lean compared to Eclipse or VisualC8 :)
11:13 <n54> I thought you guys talked favourably of eclipse some time ago?
11:13 * z-man is really away now
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> I used to love wxWidgets, but I had to kill it
11:13 <z-man> yes, eclipse is neat, but reaally slow
11:13 <n54> ah
11:13 * Lucifer_arma doesn't recall ever favorably talking about any java-driven app
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, besides robocode, that is
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> robocode is awesome
11:13 <n54> and azureus ^^
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> yay, the t2 guy said to try to boot it on a real machine
11:19 <n54> heh ok :)
11:20 * n54 finally get's going -- bbl (not that long)
11:42 <n54> gets*
11:47 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
11:47 <ghableska> hi
11:48 <n54> hi ghabby :)
11:48 <ghableska> hi n54
11:48 <ghableska> wretched weather here :(
11:49 <n54> where was here again? *n54 suffers from bad ram*
11:49 <ghableska> heh
11:49 <ghableska> iowa, US
11:49 <wrtlprnft> n54: maybe you just restarted (slept) since he last told you?
11:49 <n54> ah
11:49 <ghableska> :P
11:49 <wrtlprnft> so you need to store that information somewhere else
11:49 <wrtlprnft> bad weather here, too
11:49 <n54> hehe wrtlprnft :) (it's worse than that)
11:49 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg
11:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not find weather information.
11:50 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg, mb, ca
11:50 <n54> good weather here *sends it to you guys instead*
11:50 <ghableska> #cnn 50265
11:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb, ca".
11:50 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, IA is 70�F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 78%. Wind: S at 10 mph (16 km/h).
11:50 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg, manitoba
11:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not find weather information.
11:50 <ghableska> "cloudy" is an understatement
11:50 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg, canada
11:50 <n54> something must be burning - brb
11:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not find weather information.
11:50 <wrtlprnft> ...
11:50 <wrtlprnft> useless thing
11:50 <ghableska> #weather west des moines, IA
11:50 <armabot> ghableska: Error: Could not find weather information.
11:50 <ghableska> :O
11:52 <wrtlprnft> #help weasther
11:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no command "weasther".
11:52 <wrtlprnft> #help weather
11:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (weather <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city.
11:52 <wrtlprnft> > US/Canada city, state
11:52 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg, mb
11:53 <wrtlprnft> #weather winnipeg, manitoba
11:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb".
11:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Could not find weather information.
11:53 <ghableska> :P
11:53 <wrtlprnft> at least a different error...
11:59 <n54> #weather Oslo
11:59 <armabot> n54: Temperature: 53.4°F / 11.9°C | Humidity: 49% | Pressure: 29.73in / 1006.7hPa | Conditions: | Wind Direction: South | Wind Speed: 6.7mph / 10.8km/h | Updated: 6:53 PM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:53 � F. / 12 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:41 � F. / 5 � C.; Scattered Clouds. High:51 � F. / 11 � C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:44 � F. / 7 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:57 � F. / 14 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:44 � (1 more message)
12:00 <z-man> Rain here, too
12:00 <n54> so fkced up lol
12:00 <wrtlprnft> is there sun anywhere?
12:00 <n54> lots of sun here, that there must be Oslo, *some midwestern state*
12:01 <ghableska> heh
12:01 <n54> and must ahve been at least 20 C here today
12:05 * Lucifer_arma suggests n54 store important information such as wrtlprnft's whereabouts on his hard drive
12:05 <wrtlprnft> mental harddrive
12:06 <wrtlprnft> and we were talking about ghableska :P
12:06 <ghableska> ?
12:06 <n54> if I do it will only replace something iportant - lilke my name ^^
12:06 <n54> Iowa
12:06 <n54> Canada
12:06 <n54> yay! ^^
12:06 <ghableska> good job :)
12:07 <n54> :)
12:07 <wrtlprnft> hi there. my name is Winnipeg
12:07 <wrtlprnft> aww replaced my name
12:07 <wrtlprnft> hi there. my name is Oslo
12:07 <n54> ??
12:07 <n54> ah lol
12:07 <wrtlprnft> :P
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> why does Robin Williams always marry a tightwad?
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> woman's got not sense of humor
12:09 * Lucifer_arma is watching Mrs. Doubtfire
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> hi there, my name is Mrs. Doubtfire
12:09 * Lucifer_arma should've formatted his harddrive ext3
12:09 <wrtlprnft> ?
12:09 <wrtlprnft> reiser 4ever :P
12:10 <n54> :)
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> that was a very nice judge
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> why are fathers always the villains?
12:19 <Lucifer_arma> is that Pierce Brosnan?!?
12:19 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, it is! Remington Steele in the flesh
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab, gonna smoke and then trash my computer. will be back after all that
12:21 <wrtlprnft> uh, sure
12:21 <ghableska>
12:21 <ghableska> mmhmm
12:21 <wrtlprnft>
12:21 <ghableska> .
12:21 <wrtlprnft>
12:21 <ghableska>
12:21 <wrtlprnft>
12:22 <wrtlprnft> o_O
12:22 <ghableska>
12:22 <wrtlprnft> <insert conversation here>
12:22 * ghableska searches for a conversation
12:24 <ghableska> finals next week :(
12:24 <wrtlprnft> not too long to them for me, either
12:25 <wrtlprnft> but they'll probably be a piece of cake
12:25 <wrtlprnft> ot a piece of pi
12:26 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:29 <n54> best of luck on your finals both of you
12:29 <ghableska> thanks :)
12:29 <wrtlprnft> ty n54
12:30 * n54 is so happy he's too old and stupid for that stuff ^^
12:30 <ghableska> :P
12:31 <ghableska> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5023874.stm
12:32 <n54> the earthquake?
12:32 <ghableska> yeah
12:32 <n54> sad stuff
12:33 <ghableska> that area seems very prone to earthquakes etc...
12:33 <n54> yes it is
12:33 <n54> there's a volcano waiting to explode in that neighbourhood too
12:34 <ghableska> didn't it go off after the quake?
12:34 <n54> it did? might have, if so i just missed it
12:34 <n54> *reads link*
12:34 <ghableska> "Experts were divided over whether the quake would affect Merapi, but there are reports of heightened activity at the volcano. There was an eruption soon after the quake which sent debris some 3.5km (2 miles) down its western side."
12:35 <n54> ah ok only a small one
12:35 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
12:40 <n54> they're expecting worse from that volcano :S
12:42 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
13:15 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> why do distributions insist on putting their bootloaders in MBR? I want this bootloader on the partition, I've got a bootloader on MBR I want to keep there
13:20 <n54> well lilo let's you put it on a floppy instead iirc, might be such features in others too
13:20 <n54> lets* (god where did I pick up those annoying typos?)
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> I put my kubuntu bootloader (which let me) in the place I wanted with no problem. It's grub.
13:22 <n54> good, but what is t2 using then if not grub or lilo?
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> see, I've got this bootloader in my MBR that dynamically detects what's installed. more importantly, it lets me boot from cdrom if I want
13:23 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
13:23 <n54> without changing the bios? in reltion to cd that is
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> it's got both grub and lilo, but the only option in the installer is to put it in the MBR, and it doesn't ahve an option to give me a grub shell
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> yes, without changing the bios. :) It's beautiful.
13:23 <n54> huh strange
13:23 <n54> cool :)
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> of course, if I install windows, it'll overwrite, windows is very rude that way
13:24 <n54> yeah but you wouldn't want to do that (or actually you could back up the mbr first then overwrite with that later and just add whatever neccessary)
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'm back early because I need to go learn how to do this myself. Probably need to chroot into the t2 partition and run grub from there
13:24 <n54> hmh
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it would be install windows, then use kubuntu to restore a kubuntu-friendly MBR (which will pick up windows in the process), boot back into kubuntu to install the bootloader I want
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> whose name I can't remember
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> it's like ABM or something like that
13:25 <n54> you could copy the mbr directly afaik, grub probably manages to do it by itself even
13:25 <n54> oh the nifty one wasn't grub?
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's something else. :)
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll look in my package manager sometime and find it for you
13:26 <n54> tell me when you remember - sounds interesting :)
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> but right now, gotta get t2 booting without losing Kubuntu
13:26 <n54> yup
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> but the image worked! :)
13:26 <n54> it isn't a livecd btw?
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> must be my qemu is too old
13:26 <n54> ?h
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> no, I burned the installation cd, but there is a livecd target I could've built
13:26 <n54> ok
13:27 <n54> rude install cd, wonder why they made it that way
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> most are like that these days, I think.
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> the catch is, this one doesn't pick up other operating systems, it only knows about t2
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> or I would've gone ahead and installed it and fixed the bootloader later
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> but I can't have my kubuntu partition unavailable right now :)
13:31 <Lucifer_arma> but I went ahead and did all the other configuration stuff, so I should just need to install it
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> alright, let's see if this works, bbiab
13:39 <n54> huh that sounds like some serious deficiencies right there (sorry I'm to and fro cause of starting dinner)
13:51 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:57 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
13:57 <wrtlprnft> worked?
13:57 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:58 <wrtlprnft> uh, short visit
14:00 <philippeqc> vegetables where grilled, meat was exposed to flames, stomack where filled, wine was drank, t'was a good bbq.
14:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:04 <philippeqc> now I'll merry skip away through that hellish peice of code, and hopefully be done within the season with this "simple improvement"
14:04 <wrtlprnft> :S
14:04 * wrtlprnft glances at his todo list
14:05 * wrtlprnft quickly looks away again
14:06 * philippeqc shames in front of of mine.... creeping under the table.... I think I must have made the biggest promises, and delivered the leaseast results. I now understand z-man wisdom of keeping it quiet.
14:06 <wrtlprnft> heh. We have your maps, so...
14:07 <wrtlprnft> look at CT fortress and the race server to see that people like it :)
14:07 <philippeqc> well, heummm, yeah, but if you make the mistake of reading any of the stuff I posted in the first few months... o my.
14:07 * wrtlprnft searches for all posts by philippeqc
14:07 <philippeqc> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
14:07 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
14:08 * philippeqc performs a IRC hara-kiri
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> the thing boots, hurray
14:08 <wrtlprnft> :)
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> but X is stuck in 640x480
14:09 <wrtlprnft> missing drivers?
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> now I have 3 bootloaders on my hard drive
14:09 <philippeqc> congrat
14:09 <philippeqc> congrats
14:09 <wrtlprnft> or xorg.cfg is messed up
14:09 <Lucifer_arma> don't know if it's missing drivers, but it's got no network
14:09 <n54> congrats luci :) philippeqc & wrtlprnft we've all probably been there and done that so don't worry too much about it - it's perfectly human :)
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> they just realize they're irresistably attracted to each other?
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> I hate it when that happens.
14:10 <n54> lol :D
14:10 * n54 lvoes it when that happens
14:10 <n54> loves*
14:10 * n54 runs back to the kitchen
14:11 <philippeqc> Luci, you'll always be the long haired texan of my heart!
14:11 <z-man> please tell me it's not me who is going crazy here: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=49741#49741
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> Smart Boot Manager, it's called
14:12 <wrtlprnft> z-man: I'd love to, but i have no clue about those details
14:13 <wrtlprnft> but yes, i can already checout that empty repository and load into kdesvn
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> looks like Luke's keeping his head on just as straight as normal
14:15 * Lucifer_arma wonders if his battery-powered drill is enough to get through the man's thick skull
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> "Luke, there's a safe about to fall on you!"
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> *bunch of stuff about how unlikely that is ever to happen*
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> *thunk*
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> "I tried to warn you"
14:15 <wrtlprnft> who would you keep away from whose kids now? ;)
14:15 <wrtlprnft> #last --with kids --with wrtlprnft --from Luke-Jr
14:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:53:08] * Luke-Jr mental note not to let wrtlprnft around his kids
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> ? My daughter's got Luke beat for self-righteousness
14:16 * wrtlprnft goes back to spy on philippeqc
14:17 <philippeqc> darn, I was SO happy you forgot that for a sec
14:17 <wrtlprnft> :P
14:18 <wrtlprnft> just learning about g-r-i-d
14:18 <philippeqc> my gf found my copy of the movie "Krull"
14:18 <wrtlprnft> > * Sorry, I couldnt write g-r-i-d (no -), the forum replace it with grid.
14:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that sounds reasonable ;)
14:19 <Lucifer_arma> Krull rules!
14:20 <philippeqc> she asked me "was it good", I ansered my hand at table height. "Was it that bad"? "No no, I was that tall when I saw the movie. so about 8. It involves a 5 branched boomerang that has blades. It kicked ass for a 8 year old"
14:20 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: lol: there was an automatic translation at the time on the forum, to change grid to something else. Of course now it just sound silly.
14:21 <philippeqc> Krull: Well, I have it on dvd, and the plastic was still around it. This way I knew I could revisit my memories.
14:21 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: yeah, i guessed that. "grind" maybe?
14:21 <philippeqc> arena
14:21 <wrtlprnft> ah
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> can you rip it where I can download it? I love that movie!
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> and I was a bit bigger than 8 the last time I saw it :)
14:22 <philippeqc> ok, any tips of a good linux tool for the job.
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> mencoder :)
14:23 <philippeqc> ok
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> there's a wolf on my shirt and I'm making it bark at my 2-year old :)
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> I stuck my hand behind it so it could have jaws and he ran and hid
14:23 <philippeqc> I guessed the explaination.
14:25 <philippeqc> but it was still a good idea
14:25 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: I posted for you. :) I don't care terribly how the thing is structured, but I really don't want to move away from trunk/branch
14:26 * Lucifer_arma wonders how he's going to get his X.org setup right on the other partition
14:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, copy your xorg.conf?
14:26 * Lucifer_arma wonders if, in fact, there's any reason he can't just copy the one from his Kubuntu partition over
14:26 <Lucifer_arma> it is setup for the nvidia binary driver, though. Maybe I should download that and install it over there
14:28 <z-man> gaa, why must the edit and quote button be so close together?
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:28 <z-man> ty, Lucifer_arma
14:28 <z-man> It's the second time already.
14:28 <z-man> Probably punishment for quoting myself :)
14:30 <philippeqc> as long as you dont refer to yourself in the thrid person, I think your still safe
14:30 * z-man never does that.
14:30 <Lucifer_arma> aha! It *did* write a new xorg.conf.new, but it put it in the root
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> now, how do I find out if it installed ndiswrapper...
14:31 * Lucifer_arma thinks it's the modular x.org that's over there
14:31 <z-man> All I actually was aiming at with the subversion thing is that Luke is trying to change the plan *completely* half a day before it gets executed.
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's an old tactic, really. "Here's the plan" "Make it so" "Oh shit, have to change the plan" *doesn't notice*
14:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's the reason our own government is so bloated with contractors. They bid the project at like 1 million dollars or something to get congressional approval,
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> the scope creep the hell out of it.
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's how a $15 million bomber turns into a $150 million bomber
14:33 * Lucifer_arma has always negotiated contracts with a "this estimate is a guaranteed maximum"
14:34 <z-man> Smart, probably.
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> pays the bills. Of course, while I say it's a guaranteed maximum, I don't say that I already know ahead of time that I'll reach that maximum.
14:35 <z-man> :)
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> You ask someone to budget for your expenses, then you should take the entire budgeted amount, right? :)
14:39 <z-man> #later Luke-Jr Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
14:39 <z-man> #later tell Luke-Jr Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
14:39 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
14:39 <z-man> Don't want him to pull the "ooh, sorry, i didn't notice that" card.
14:46 <n54> has anyone tried compiling armagetron on windows using mingw & msys?
14:46 <z-man> Plain mingw, no.
14:46 <n54> you've done it the cygwin way?
14:46 <z-man> But the code::blocks thing uses mingw
14:46 <n54> ok
14:47 <z-man> I don't know about msys, though. code::blocks is a complete installation ready to rock.
14:47 <n54> sounds nice *checks it out*
14:47 <z-man> really for dummies who don't care how their program gets built :)
14:47 * n54 just got a level 1 deja vu - hard, presise & exact
14:48 <n54> ok
14:48 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: i can't find any "bad" posts :P
14:48 <wrtlprnft> all sounds reasonable
14:49 <philippeqc> check the date.
14:49 <wrtlprnft> july 2004?
14:50 <philippeqc> yes
14:51 * wrtlprnft still doesn't get what's wrong with that
14:51 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=1363&highlight=
14:51 <wrtlprnft> > Everybody is happy under Philippe's fascist dictatorship!
14:51 <n54> ??? who said that
14:51 <wrtlprnft> n54: look at the link ;)
14:51 <philippeqc> Dictator philippeqc!
14:51 <wrtlprnft> he was just kidding though, i guess
14:52 <n54> meh says it doesn't exist
14:52 <philippeqc> Dictator Phlippe never kids
14:53 <philippeqc> and n54 will have an infortunate encounter in a dark alley
14:53 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: you must have skipped over the "world" stuff
14:53 <wrtlprnft> world?
14:53 <n54> yes? who's the victim?
14:54 <n54> hmm btw I don't have any dark alleys in my flat so never mind ^^
14:54 <philippeqc> I'd be a bad dictator, I cant even make half convincing threaths
14:55 <n54> sorry :)
14:55 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=14069#14069 <-- that?
14:55 <wrtlprnft> anyways, that beats most of Lucifer_arma's posts i've ever seen
14:56 <philippeqc> beats! how?
14:56 <n54> lenght?
14:56 <wrtlprnft> in lenght, i mean
14:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:56 <wrtlprnft> same spelling error
14:56 <wrtlprnft> length
14:57 <n54> oops
14:57 <philippeqc> lol
14:57 <n54> that one I have trouble writing correctly for real
14:59 <wrtlprnft> why wulod you eevn btoehr to crae aoubt cacrheatr oredr?
15:00 <philippeqc> ebuaces ti noly rwoks fi ti si a evry olcla uhsfelf
15:01 <wrtlprnft> because it only works if it is a very what?
15:02 <philippeqc> local shuffle
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> the first and last letters have to be the smae
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> if tehy're not, tehn waht you wotre is too hrad to raed
15:03 <philippeqc> naa, read again my attempt.
15:03 <philippeqc> o ok
15:03 <wrtlprnft> you need to keep the frsit and lsat lteter itncat
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> itncat?
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> oh, intact
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> in tact
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> hm
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> so did you enjoy reading my little book there, wrtlprnft /
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> ?
15:04 <philippeqc> shuffle of 2 or 3 space away too is the part I remember
15:04 <wrtlprnft> you mean the money thing?
15:04 <wrtlprnft> yes
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, the limit of that function is 0. The independent variable is the group number, the dependent variable is the number of people willing to give us money.
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> so as you raise the group number, the number of people willing to give us money approaches 0.
15:12 <wrtlprnft> i thought the average amount of money per person
15:13 <wrtlprnft> although i think of our <20 devs there will be a few people willing to spend money
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> no, limit is the value the function approaches at a certain point, but the point doesn't have to be in the domain of the function.
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> if a developer puts money into the project, did he give us money? :)
15:13 <wrtlprnft> if you compare that to the 500 or so group 0 guys, probably the percentage is smaller
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> much smaller. In fact, let's say the percentage in group 0 is 50, the percentage in group 1 will be something like 5. The dropoff is something that big.
15:14 <wrtlprnft> if i was to buy a copy of the artwork CD i would give the rest of the devs money
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> further dropoff is smaller, though. Group 3 might have 4 percent, and group 4 has 3 percent, but the biggest drop will be group 1->2
15:15 <wrtlprnft> ooh. i thought it would be an exonential function from the first 2 numbers
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> well, you'd put it into the pool. I didn't mention in the post (forgot to, really), but I think it's reasonable to distribute the pool of money directly to developers
15:16 <wrtlprnft> 50% * -10^x
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> the function is probably something like -ln x
15:16 <wrtlprnft> uh
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, might need a vertical shift there
15:16 <wrtlprnft> #g - ( ln(1) )
15:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: -ln(1) = 0
15:16 <wrtlprnft> #g - ( ln(2) )
15:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: -ln(2) = -0.693147181
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> how about |1/x|
15:17 <wrtlprnft> must be exponential to have a limit of 0
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> ? no it doesn't
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> the limit can exist while the value at that point doesn't
15:17 <wrtlprnft> well, im mean, not logarythmical
15:17 <wrtlprnft> 1/x is not defined for x=0
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, f(x) = 0 is probably a horizontal asymptote
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> in that case, you're right, can't be logarithmic :)
15:18 <wrtlprnft> exponential is waaaay better for that :)
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> but |1/x| is possible, except that at x=1, f(x) = 1
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> which would mean there's only 1 person in group 1 that wants to give us money, which renders the whole discussion of no merit
15:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8811.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:19 <wrtlprnft> well, you're the marketing guy, so knock yourself out :P
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> |1/(x-1)| is possible
15:19 <wrtlprnft> uh
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> and worthwhile. :) except that x=1 will be a vertical asymptote
15:20 <wrtlprnft> what about 50/(x+1)?
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> |1/(x-99/100)|
15:20 <n54> meh money
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> so at x=1, f(x)=25?
15:21 <wrtlprnft> that's why i proposed an exponential function first
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> -e^x :)
15:21 <wrtlprnft> 50*(.1)^x
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> you have to keep it in QI though
15:21 <wrtlprnft> that would fit your (0,50) and (1,5)
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> and exponential is in QI and QII
15:22 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC37.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:22 <wrtlprnft> but would fall too quickly after that
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> blah. I don't think I'll worry too much about what it looks like on a graph unless we actually collect real data we can model :)
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the point is, the most money available is probably in group 1, so that's who we should be worried about marketing to
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> provided that group 1 is of sufficient size, of course. Which may not be the case.
15:24 <wrtlprnft> not another doublebind related question :(
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> examples of doublebinding: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
15:24 <n54> just don't treat _any_ group as cashcows, it will butn and fast
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> haha
15:24 <n54> burn*
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, n54. That's the trick with marketing. Treat your audience as real people, not consumers or banks or any of that.
15:25 <wrtlprnft> example of drunk driving: _/\|/\__/
15:25 <n54> so how about discussing what we can offer rather than what we can get? ;)
15:25 <wrtlprnft> aww made a mistake
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> indeed, the discussion is supposed to be "what we can offer and who it's valuable to"
15:25 <wrtlprnft> example of drunk driving: _/\||/\__/
15:26 <n54> good (I might write something up for the forum but I'm exhausted and still have stuff I absolutely have to get done tomorrow :|)
15:26 <n54> /has at least one idea that hasn't been mentioned
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> I don't personally want to expend effort right now to try to put together a marketable product, instead I want to keep doing cool stuff for the game, and when a marketable product appears, market it :)
15:26 <n54> yeah I'm with you on that
15:27 <n54> it's just a certain fear I have that made me misinterpret some of what you said - no problem
15:27 * wrtlprnft still regrets giving Luke-Jr the idea of selling alpha builds of arma
15:27 <n54> alpha?
15:27 <wrtlprnft> probably revenge for the rGradient thing
15:27 <wrtlprnft> alpha/dev/unstable/whatever
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> come on, man. You could sell swamp land in florida to Luke-Jr. I couldn't. That's a unique gift you've got, wrtlprnft
15:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
15:28 <n54> you don't like swamps? :o
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> of course I do, that's why I always forget to turn off my sprinkler....
15:28 <n54> :)
15:29 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: interested in two square kilometers of land on the sun? You could make a fortune by placing solar panels on it... come on, just $1,000,000!
15:29 <n54> with enough money to build the kind of structure I would want I would have no problem buying a huge swath of swamp :)
15:29 <n54> and I'd leave the wildlife alone too :)
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> just make sure it doesn't sink into the swamp
15:29 <n54> :)
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> I cut down trees, I eat my lunch, I go to the lavat'ry
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> On wednesdays I go shopping, and have buttered scones with tea
15:30 * n54 thinks scones are overrated
15:31 * Lucifer_arma used to know the Lumberjack Song on guitar and is wondering if he still remembers it
15:31 * wrtlprnft somehow likes the interface of cervisia more than he likes kdesvn... :(
15:31 * Lucifer_arma blames z-man for putting that song in his head
15:34 <n54> :)
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> "What do I have to do, to get into your head?"
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> "We'll be having this same argument, when we're both dead!"
15:37 * n54 tunes in to somafm
15:38 * n54 only lacks a thunderstorm right now ^"
15:38 <n54> ^^
15:41 * Lucifer_arma plays his bass
15:43 * Lucifer_arma uses a pick when he plays grindspeeddeathshitcore
15:44 * Lucifer_arma just realized the house is empty, rock on!
15:45 * n54 is in mellowyellowjahjahjimmyzone with flowers of electronic sound
15:45 * Lucifer_arma has enough amplification to rock the whole cul-de-sac
15:45 <n54> what happened to the wife and kids?
15:45 <n54> oh it's daytime in your part of the world
15:48 <Lucifer_arma> only problem is, all that amplification is for my guitar, for my bass I just have this cheesy little crate
15:48 <Lucifer_arma> family went swimming, I'm all alone :)
15:48 <n54> :)
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should plugin my guitar, I want to rock loudly right now
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> but I want to play my bass.
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I'm supposed to be finishing getting the t2 system going so I can write my article
15:51 <n54> it has to be done fast?
15:52 -!- Nixda907 [n=59344cbb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
15:52 -!- Nixda907 [n=59344cbb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> not really. :)
15:53 <n54> :)
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> considering how little stamina I have since I'm sooo out of practice, it shouldn't be a problem to make the divergence :)
15:54 <n54> I enjoy the german posts on the forum, cool to have a multilingual community
15:54 <n54> :)
15:56 <Lucifer_arma> I can't remember how the fortress walk goes! This is disaster!
15:58 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/fortresswalk.ogg :)
15:59 * n54 will check that out another day :)
16:00 <Lucifer_arma> come on man, it's not grinddeathkillmurdercore!
16:01 <Lucifer_arma> it's regular texas rock :)
16:04 <n54> sorry I'm too far away in my own musical world to come back today :)
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> see what I mean about stamina? I'm played out. :(
16:05 <Lucifer_arma> these are definitely *not* the days when I play Master of Puppets for a warmup
16:06 <n54> that song I like a lot
16:06 <n54> great lyrics
16:06 <Lucifer_arma> I liked it until I heard that idiot try to sing it
16:06 <n54> which one?
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> now I'm traumatized, and can only play it as a warmup
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> James Hetfield, of course
16:07 <n54> oh lol
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> when they did that gig with the symphony and he insisted that the song was meant to be *sung*
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> he was a better singer before he thought he coudl actually sing, I think
16:07 <n54> I'm happy to have escaped that
16:08 <Lucifer_arma> they did the Call of Ktulu with the symphony though, and he didn't screw that up, it was beautiful
16:08 <n54> ok
16:09 * n54 enjoys Lovecraft a lot btw
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> never read any. My only exposure to lovecraft is Metallica, heh
16:10 <n54> it's not great writing but it resonnates with me, i have peculiar interpretations as to what his ultimate pointis though
16:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, I haven't read any of his stuff, but I'd like to see a crazy cult develop from the chronicles of Amber
16:10 <n54> what's that?
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, series of books? ;)
16:11 * n54 is not a dagonist btw ^^
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> Roger Zelazny. The premise is that there's an ultimate real world and that everything else is just a shadow of it
16:11 <n54> 0ok, never heard of
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> even earth. even Luke-Jr's world.
16:11 <n54> I've red some zelany but can't remember what, prob a few short stories
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> unfortunately, the real world is a monarchy. ;P
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> the series deals with a succession crisis that kind of spills into stuff that threatens the underlying fabric of reality
16:12 <n54> nothing wrong with monarchies done right; removes the need for a president :)
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'd prefer the need to remove the president :)
16:12 <n54> did not compute that sentence
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> can't remove a king
16:13 <n54> if done right there is absolutely no need to :)
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> they even have a special name for people who remove the king
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> what's the overall percentage in history, past and present, of "monarchies done right"?
16:13 <n54> I don't care about statistics :)
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> right, don't bother *me* with the facts, I've got a good monarchy and by the Devil I'm gonna keep it!
16:14 <n54> sorry you lost me again
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> "right, don't bother *me* with the facts, I've got a good monarchy and by the Devil I'm gonna keep it!" - n54
16:14 <n54> ??
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> nvm
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm gonna copy my xorg.new file and reboot
16:15 <n54> hope it works
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> me too, bbiab
16:16 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:22 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
16:28 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> yay, it worked, but no network, heh
16:29 <n54> :)
16:29 <n54> you obviously fixed that :)
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> reboot into Kubuntu is not a fix for that
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> had to come back to where I could read the handbook and find out how to manage packages so I can install the ndiswrapper package :)
16:32 <n54> :)
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not convinced that particular installation will replace my desktop though. I think I should wait until they tag the stable release for that,
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> but since they don't release generic x86 binaries, I'll have to build my own. Luckily, I know more about the build system and might be able to trim the 56-hour build time a bit
16:33 <n54> ok
16:35 <n54> ooh help I'm a bug has made a forum post :o that's rare
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> heh
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> not surprising he's pining for goshdarn, though
16:35 <n54> best name ever imo ^^
16:35 <n54> yeah
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> I thought about called my server armagoddammit
16:36 <n54> :)
16:38 * n54 finally got through all the forum posts... they bunch up quickly
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> where did it put my package?
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> I've got ndiswrapper built, but where is it?
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> oh fuck, I think it installed it on my kubuntu system
16:51 <wrtlprnft> just looking on 2020's ladle time proposal... that way he can count me out.
16:51 <wrtlprnft> there's no way I'll be playing tron at 2am
16:51 <n54> :)
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> I think I have a solution
16:52 <wrtlprnft> or, actually
16:53 <wrtlprnft> scratch that, joda screwed up
16:53 <wrtlprnft> 8PM GMT is 3PM CDT
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab--maybe
16:53 <n54> cya
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> unless I did install ndiswrapper in Kubuntu and trashed my old one :(
16:54 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:55 <n54> heads: grab a soda and enjoy the music tail: go to bed, you've got stuff to do while it's daylight tomorrow
16:55 <n54> #coin
16:55 <armabot> n54: tails
16:55 <n54> bah
16:55 <n54> #coin
16:55 <armabot> n54: tails
16:55 <n54> hmpf
16:55 <n54> #coin
16:55 <armabot> n54: heads
16:55 <n54> ^^
16:55 * n54 goes to get that soda ^^
16:56 <wrtlprnft> #echo [coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin][coin]
16:56 <armabot> tails heads heads tails tails heads heads heads tails tails tails heads tails heads tails tails heads heads tails heads heads heads heads heads
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:56 <n54> :)
17:21 <guru3> haha i've been mean
17:21 <guru3> not been paying a lot of attention to the forums ><
17:26 <n54> how so?
17:26 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087072D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:28 <wrtlprnft> g 3 tbsp margerine in g
17:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 3 tbsp margerine in g
17:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:28 <wrtlprnft> bah
17:28 <wrtlprnft> useless piece of crap ;)
17:29 <philippeqc> # 3 tbsp in g
17:29 <philippeqc> #g 3 tbsp in g
17:29 <armabot> philippeqc: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:29 <philippeqc> #g 3 tbsp in grams
17:29 <armabot> philippeqc: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:29 <philippeqc> #g 3 table spoon in grams
17:29 <armabot> philippeqc: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:30 <philippeqc> I agree
17:30 <n54> so... what exactly is the mass of margarine? and the volume of a tablespoon?
17:30 <philippeqc> what are you doing, a cake or chemistry?
17:31 <n54> and we need to introduce tnspt (tablespoon topped)
17:31 <n54> ask wrtlprnft not me :)
17:31 <n54> tbspt*
17:31 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:31 <wrtlprnft> i pbsp = 15ml
17:31 <n54> #g margarine mass
17:31 <armabot> n54: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
17:32 <wrtlprnft> 1 tbsp = 15ml
17:32 <n54> #google margarine mass
17:32 <armabot> n54: Search took 0.54 seconds: NELDA : Confectionery : Recipes: <http://www.nelda.lv/en/manuf_sweet_book.htm>; Good News: Butter is Better for you than Margarine ...: <http://www.practicalhippie.com/margarine.htm>; <AD HOC BIBLIO - INDEX SUJETS LETTRE M Compil? le 00/12/13: <http://res2.agr.ca/sthyacinthe/biblio/i/mid1m.htm>; Individual cholesterol variation in response to a margarine - or (3 more messages)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> #g 1 tbsp in ml
17:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 1 US tablespoon = 14.7867648 ml
17:32 <wrtlprnft> #google margerine density
17:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.89 seconds: ScienceDaily: Plant Sterol Margerine Useful In Cholesterol Management: <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000308180142.htm>; ScienceDaily: McGill Researchers Identify New Way To Reduce ...: <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041217104703.htm>; Margerine - encyclopedia article about Margerine .: (3 more messages)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> you want the density, not mass ;)
17:32 <n54> yeah that's better
17:32 <philippeqc> lol, volume to mass convertion. yeah, that couldnt work
17:32 <n54> more
17:33 <n54> #more
17:33 <armabot> n54: ...: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11105179>; Margarine: <http://www.veganmania.com/pages/margarine.htm>; Triacylglycerol Analysis of Potential Margarine Base Stocks by ...: <http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/jafcau/2001/49/i01/abs/jf0008801.html>; Term Papers on A Formula 1 Margarine Tub - Term Papers Lab: (2 more messages)
17:33 <wrtlprnft> #more
17:33 <armabot> wrtlprnft: <http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Margerine>; Pottery Showroom - Margerine Keeper: <http://www.polishstoneware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=119>; Cholesterol Discussion Board - Cholesterol in the Gut: <http://www.naturalpharmacy.com/herbal-discussion/showthread.php?threadid=698>; HOK:: Pretra?ivanje obrta: (2 more messages)
17:33 <spidey> lol?
17:34 <n54> yes lol :)
17:34 * n54 wonders if wrtlprnft will now dazzle us with a filled in equation answering his quest
17:34 <spidey> bakers wives?
17:34 <spidey> :p
17:34 <wrtlprnft> neither cake nor cemistry :P Just trying to find out how much margerine that noodle package wants me to add
17:34 <wrtlprnft> since I'm not gonne squeeze margerine into tablespoons
17:34 <guru3> hmm i sort of don't remember checking the forums the last day or two :/
17:34 <n54> yuck! noodles with margarine???
17:34 * n54 calls the guys in white coats
17:35 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:35 <wrtlprnft> m = V*D
17:35 <n54> that noodlepackage must be getting old by now, you were trying this stuff ages ago lol ^^
17:36 <n54> look do you have a kitchen scale wrtlprnft?
17:36 <wrtlprnft> looks like people here use margerine for everything germans would use butter for
17:36 <wrtlprnft> no i don't
17:37 <guru3> evil margerine >:(
17:37 <wrtlprnft> canadian households measure everything in cups and spoons and whatever
17:37 <guru3> woo cups :D
17:37 <n54> shame if you did you could weigh an empty spoon, then a filled spoon - done once and you'll forever know ^^
17:37 <wrtlprnft> hmm
17:37 <n54> (no I don't have one either) :)
17:39 <philippeqc> guys, I'm sorry, I'll have to tell you in a way you'll understand: strcmp("cooking", "chemistry") != 0
17:40 <philippeqc> ;)
17:40 <n54> I know a few chefs that would strongly disagree with you on that :)
17:41 <wrtlprnft> or i could take one of those what does that have to do with chemistry, anyways?
17:41 <wrtlprnft> if it is anything it's physics
17:41 <philippeqc> I'd be the first one. Browsed through a book "the chemistry of the cooking pot".
17:41 <n54> yes it's physics too of course, any chemistry is :)
17:42 <wrtlprnft> #g 25*PI*5
17:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 25 * PI * 5 = 392.699082
17:43 <n54> 5pi?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> that's the volume of the margerine package in cm^3
17:43 <n54> what shape did you say it was? :o
17:43 <wrtlprnft> a cylinder, roughly
17:44 <wrtlprnft> it says it once contained 454 g of margerine
17:44 <philippeqc> last time I did some pie, I had to use a calculator. I had a form that was 2 inches longer in diameter than the receipy said.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> that makes:
17:44 <n54> hehe
17:44 <n54> once but no more?
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #g .454/0.000392699082
17:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: .454 / 0.000392699082 = 1,156.10151
17:44 <wrtlprnft> 1,165 kg/m^3
17:44 <guru3> good night
17:45 <n54> cya guru3 :)
17:45 <wrtlprnft> so, back to the original question:
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #g .06*1,156.10151
17:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: .06 * 1,156.10151 = 69.3660906
17:45 <wrtlprnft> err, not quite
17:45 <n54> yeah that's definetly wrong
17:45 <philippeqc> yeah, its so much more convenient to deal in kg/m^3 (where do you show your margarin so that they deliver you a cubic meter)
17:46 * n54 never measures any indigrient
17:46 <wrtlprnft> or no, the answer does make sense i think. it's just in mg ;)
17:46 <wrtlprnft> 70 mg :)
17:46 <n54> hmm
17:46 <wrtlprnft> #g 70/250
17:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 70 / 250 = 0.28
17:48 <philippeqc> 70 mg of a 454 g container, thats ....
17:48 <n54> but why do you want to spoil noodles with margarine? or are you talking pasta?
17:48 <philippeqc> #g 70/454
17:48 <armabot> philippeqc: 70 / 454 = 0.154185022
17:48 <wrtlprnft> no, not mg
17:48 <wrtlprnft> g i mean
17:49 <philippeqc> 3/20 of the total volume of the container
17:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, kraft dinner :P
17:49 <n54> ah ok
17:49 <n54> macaroni?
17:49 <wrtlprnft> 1
17:49 <philippeqc> yeah, i'd spend more time calculating how much margarin I'd need than actually eating it
17:50 <philippeqc> well, you just have to build a cardboard shape that is 1/20 of the margarin jar you have, and fill it 3 times and your ready to eat
17:51 <n54> lol
17:51 <wrtlprnft> ok, let's do that again in pounds and inches
17:51 <n54> rofl actually :)
17:51 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's exactly what i didn't want
17:51 <wrtlprnft> i could have just taken a tablespoon for that
17:52 <philippeqc> how will you put the margarin on a scale? i'd guess with a spoon?
17:52 <n54> I think my idea was the best really ^^
17:53 <wrtlprnft> but, i can take the margerine box and use a knife to divide it into 10ths like a pie and then take 1 and a half of those
17:53 <wrtlprnft> i don't have a scale here
17:53 <n54> why not make it 20 slices and take 3?
17:53 <wrtlprnft> it's easier to make 10 :P
17:53 <wrtlprnft> 20 would be a mess
17:53 <n54> well "easy" isn't the word most suited to this conversation ^^
17:53 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:53 <philippeqc> n54: you can spoil kraft dinner. It doesnt spoil. Maybe it fossilise, but not spoil.
17:54 <n54> never eaten it :)
17:54 <n54> brb
17:54 <wrtlprnft> why not take 3 containers of margerine and take a 20th out of each?
17:54 <n54> siure :)
17:57 * wrtlprnft wonders if he should put the important gathered information--the density of margerine--on wikipedia
17:57 <wrtlprnft> probably not accurate enough
17:58 <wrtlprnft> i would need to buy margerine from lots of different companies and take the average ;)
18:01 <philippeqc> at what temperature?
18:02 <wrtlprnft> 20�C
18:02 <philippeqc> give it a few year, and you'll be able to publish "a full survey of the density of margarin at relativistic speeds"
18:03 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:04 <philippeqc> and your kraft dinner will still wait for you, as good as ever
18:04 <n54> lol
18:05 <n54> if you did it really well you could receive a Noble award :)
18:05 <n54> you could also measure time-dilation on margerine
18:06 <philippeqc> doesnt it need to be a lifetime acheivement? No worries, your kraft dinner will wait for you to be ready.
18:06 <n54> and how about ablation rate of margarine in vacuum?
18:07 <philippeqc> your not going to ship margarine to space outside of its container are you, that'd be messy.
18:08 <n54> well you could do it in a vacuum chamber
18:09 <n54> perhaps it even has some highly useful but unanticipated properties? ^^
18:10 <philippeqc> every day, blunch of margarine fell accidentally inside vacuum chamber, and people could only stare at them, wondering how long they would take to ablate. But now, through wrtlprnft life time acheivement, we no longer have to sit and wonder. And this is why we award his the Nobel prize.
18:10 <n54> hehe
18:12 <n54> seems like wrtlprnft is busy already ^^
18:14 <philippeqc> well, enough margarine for today
18:14 <spidey> playing tron
18:14 <philippeqc> see you 2morrow
18:14 <n54> cya :)
18:14 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:16 <n54> I should sleep too, cya all :)
18:35 * wrtlprnft ate hus kraft dinner quite a while ago and was playing arma
18:35 <wrtlprnft> night n54
18:35 <wrtlprnft> *hi
18:35 <wrtlprnft> *his
18:39 <spidey> lol
18:53 * wrtlprnft silently hopes Lcfuier_amra doesn't read across this :P
18:58 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
18:58 <ghableska> hello
18:58 <wrtlprnft> hello there
18:58 <wrtlprnft> or should i say
18:58 <wrtlprnft>
18:58 <ghableska> :P
19:01 <ghableska> yay!
19:01 <ghableska> the sun came out :D
19:01 <wrtlprnft> it did here, too, but about two hours ago
19:01 <wrtlprnft> now it's setting :P
19:01 <ghableska> :
19:01 <ghableska> Oops
19:01 <ghableska> :)
19:23 <spidey> sd?
19:34 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
19:34 * Lucifer_arma notes that if you install a t2 package while running the host system used to build it, the package gets installed into your host system
19:35 * Lucifer_arma notes further that t2 has a much newer version of ndiswrapper than kubuntu
19:42 * wrtlprnft wonders which version
19:43 <Lucifer_arma> 1.8
19:44 <wrtlprnft> gentoo has 1.15 :P
19:44 <wrtlprnft> but it considers 1.2 as stable
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'm having a little trouble accepting that there's been 7 minor revisions since this Kubuntu disk was built
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> nevertheless, after reinstalling the kernel, ndiswrapper told me the tools were v1.8 and the driver was 1.1, and it wasn't working because of that
19:46 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> kubuntu doesn't just have a "reinstall the kernel" option, either. I think I probably broke it somewhat seriously and haven't discovered how yet
19:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, get the kernel from kernel.org?
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that's what i do
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> what made that man think a carpenter's son would have the fanciest chalice available?
19:47 * Lucifer_arma doesn't like building his own, prefers the full-featured kernels distributors make
19:47 * Lucifer_arma is watching the third indiana jones movie
19:47 <wrtlprnft> o_O that kernel works just fine
19:48 <wrtlprnft> i just need the ipw2200 module
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Indiana....let it go
19:52 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> first the girl falls, and indy holds her hand, she stretches for the grail, and falls, right?
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> Then indy does it too, with his dad trying to bring him back up.
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> I named the dog Indiana.
19:54 * wrtlprnft is seriously confused now
19:58 <spidey> hmmm?
20:01 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: HAHAHA
20:02 <Lucifer_arma> You are named after a dog? hahahahah
20:02 <spidey> sd
20:02 <spidey> we're introuble
20:02 <Lucifer_arma> saula is my favorite character in the whole wide world :)
20:02 * Lucifer_arma puts on his Indiana Jones hat
20:02 <spidey> Self_Destructo, http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=89729#89729
20:04 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: no, I'm not
20:05 <Self_Destructo> spidey: so what, he has nothing to attack me for
20:05 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as IndianaJones
20:05 <IndianaJones> heh, someone else has this nick already
20:05 -!- IndianaJones is now known as Luci_Jones
20:05 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:05 <Self_Destructo> onywaysie
20:05 <Self_Destructo> anywaysie*
20:06 -!- Luci_Jones is now known as Lucifer_arma
20:06 <Self_Destructo> why do you have _arma on your nick?
20:06 <Self_Destructo> someone already have Lucifer?
20:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, somebody had Lucifer already
20:07 * Lucifer_arma has considered changing his ingame name to match
20:07 <Lucifer_arma> well those t2 guys are just about worthless with this ndiswrapper business
20:08 <Lucifer_arma> "Just do it the way ndiswrapper's website says to do it"
20:08 * Lucifer_arma has been using ndiswrapper for over a year now, thinks he knows how to set it up.
20:08 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:19 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
20:35 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:46 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180224.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
20:54 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034183010.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:05 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, enough of you vanhayes?
21:06 <wrtlprnft> 3 users lol
21:07 <Apollo> hmm I think my connection made me loggin 3 times here
21:09 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:10 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:10 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:11 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:12 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:12 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180224.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:12 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:13 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:18 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:26 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034183010.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:29 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034181040.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:33 <wrtlprnft> Nazurath and Vanhayes and Apollo are fighting their irc clients?
21:33 <Nazurath> ?
21:33 <Nazurath> hmm
21:34 <Nazurath> they are all me but my connection is acting weird and I had to log in a few times
21:35 <wrtlprnft> i know they're all you from the host names :P
21:36 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034184233.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <wrtlprnft> http://www.aharef.info/static/htmlgraph/?url=http://wrtlprnft.de/flaggen.htm
21:39 <spidey> firefox is starting to piss me off
21:39 <spidey> j
21:40 <wrtlprnft> well that's a very big page that is analysed...
21:40 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, where'd all these people come from?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes, Apollo and Nazurath are all the same for some reason
21:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, gosh
21:43 <spidey> tyuy
21:43 <wrtlprnft> Microsoft: We do NOT need a Windows Media Photo format, no thanks
21:44 <spidey> ?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> that thing is supposed to do lossless and lossful (?) compression, but with 32bit color it's only supposed to do the latter
21:44 <wrtlprnft> such BS
21:44 <wrtlprnft> spidey: just read an article about it, unfortunately in german
21:44 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090C43B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:45 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
21:46 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|bbmonday
21:46 <SD|bbmonday> cya'll
21:46 <spidey> lol
21:47 <SD|bbmonday> ?
21:47 <spidey> vcra
21:47 <SD|bbmonday> ?
21:47 <spidey> cya*
21:47 <SD|bbmonday> what was funny?
21:47 <wrtlprnft> scya
21:47 <wrtlprnft> !
21:47 <spidey> 5222220
21:47 <SD|bbmonday> wrtlprnft: you've been playing tron
21:47 <SD|bbmonday> bya
21:47 <wrtlprnft> SD|bbmonday: yes?
21:48 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179032.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:48 * wrtlprnft played tron many times in the past
21:53 -!- Nazurath [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034181040.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:57 -!- Apollo [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034184233.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:01 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090C0BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:14 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:14 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: jpeg2000?
22:21 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: btw, reminder that experimental != alpha
22:31 * Lucifer_arma thinks Microsoft just doesn't like .png
22:35 <Luke-Jr> .png doesn't support lossy
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> you can do lossy pngs if you want, it goes both ways
23:17 <Luke-Jr> it does?
23:17 <Luke-Jr> never seen that
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> so, they'll help me build the distribution, but once it's built, nobody knows what to do
23:27 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-211-221-14.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab, I'll just build the damn module from source
23:27 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
23:45 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
23:57 * Lucifer_arma grumbles
Log from 2006-05-28:
--- Day changed Sun May 28 2006
00:01 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
00:06 <Luke-Jr> I presume nobody has touched CVS in the past hour or plans to?
00:09 <Luke-Jr> bleh, forgot to block commits
00:20 <spidey> hehehe
00:20 <spidey> i like the download stats via konsole
00:24 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:24 <Luke-Jr> anyway, CVS is closed now
00:24 <Luke-Jr> and stage 3c in progress
00:26 <spidey> 'er
00:26 <spidey> i can't find tron :/
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> the movie?
00:26 <spidey> no
00:27 <spidey> i installed it on my ubuntu box
00:27 <spidey> but i cant find it
00:27 <spidey> :/
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> open a terminal and type "armagetronad"
00:28 <spidey> Warning in void FindConfigurationPath(const char*) in ../../builds/b_0.2.8.1/RC1/armagetronad-0.2.8.1/src/tools/tDirectories.cpp:1285 :
00:28 <spidey> Could not determine path to configuration files. Using defaults or command line arguments.
00:28 <spidey> Internal Error: Internal error in static tLanguage* tLanguage::FindStrict(const tString&) in ../../builds/b_0.2.8.1/RC1/armagetronad-0.2.8.1/src/tools/tLocale.cpp:150 :
00:28 <spidey> Language British English not found.
00:28 <spidey> Please send a Bug report!
00:28 <spidey> eh?
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> where and how are you starting it?
00:28 <spidey> konsole
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> what directory are you in?
00:28 <spidey> ~
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> did you install from source?
00:29 <spidey> armagetronad-0.2.8.1.i686-generic-linux-gnu.package
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, there should be a menu item for that
00:29 <spidey> not one in games or internet
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> that path to the source file is kinda weird, but I guess it's the path on the machine that built it
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> what are you typing? just "armagetronad"?
00:30 <spidey> yea
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> did you install it as root, or as regular user?
00:30 * Lucifer_arma guesses regular user, it's ubuntu
00:30 <spidey> i used sudo
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> ls /usr/bin/armagetronad
00:31 <spidey> spidey@Zion:~$ ls /usr/bin/armagetronad
00:31 <spidey> /usr/bin/armagetronad
00:31 <spidey> spidey@Zion:~$
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> ls /usr/etc/games/armagetronad
00:32 <spidey> spidey@Zion:~$ ls /usr/etc/games/armagetronad
00:32 <spidey> ls: /usr/etc/games/armagetronad: No such file or directory
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> ls /usr/etc/
00:32 <spidey> spidey@Zion:~$ ls /usr/etc
00:32 <spidey> ls: /usr/etc: No such file or directory
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmm
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's telling you the truth, then. Can't find it's config files
00:32 <Luke-Jr> I would hope there no /usr/etc
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> ls /etc/games/
00:33 <spidey> ls: /etc/games: No such file or directory
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> uninstall and then reinstall, but this time install it as a regular user
00:34 <spidey> k
00:34 <spidey> this optikal mouse is getting on my nerves
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> also, you might try the rc2 for 0.2.8.2
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to download that and try it
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> er, I guess it's rc1
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/armagetronad/armagetronad-0.2.8.2_rc1.i686-generic-linux-gnu.package?download
00:35 <spidey> hmmm
00:36 <spidey> i can't find it in the package manager :/
00:36 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: why not rc2?
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> because I don't see it on sourceforge and I don't really ahve time to dig for it
00:37 <Luke-Jr> so look the obvious place
00:37 <Luke-Jr> http://beta.armagetronad.net/
00:37 <Luke-Jr> http://beta.armagetronad.net/fetch.php/0.2.8%252F0.2.8.2_rc2%252Farmagetronad-0.2.8.2_rc2.i686-generic-linux-gnu.package
00:38 * Lucifer_arma informs Luke-Jr that he ws about to reboot again into the t2 partition, if Luke-Jr would like to help spidey, he can go ahead.
00:38 <Luke-Jr> I don't know anything about the AutoPkg stuff
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> obviously, or you'd know what /usr/etc was for
00:39 <Luke-Jr> /usr/etc does not exist in any OS
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> the one I linked works for me, but with no menu entry
00:39 <spidey> meh.o,
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> I had to type ~/.local/bin/armagetronad to run it
00:39 <spidey> i'ma try the .deb package
00:39 * Lucifer_arma is on Kubuntu, so should be very close to what you've got
00:39 <spidey> well
00:39 <spidey> An error occurred while loading http://beta.armagetronad.net/fetch.php/0.2.8%252F0.2.8.0_rc1%252Farmagetronad_0.2.7.1%252B0.2.8.0_rc1-1ubuntu1_i386.deb:
00:39 <spidey> Timeout on server
00:39 <spidey> Connection was to beta.armagetronad.net at port 80
00:39 <spidey> i thought i was >.>
00:40 <Luke-Jr> wfm
00:40 * Lucifer_arma notes that the sourceforge link is good :)
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bbiab, hopefully in my t2 partition
00:40 <Luke-Jr> as is the beta link
00:40 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
00:50 -!- seckmer [n=c9680493@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
00:51 <seckmer> hi
00:51 <seckmer> hi everybody
00:51 <seckmer> I need know, how play in Internet
00:52 -!- seckmer [n=c9680493@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
00:53 <spidey> eh?
01:03 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:04 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Those acme/branches/dave and acme/tags/daveF are trash, right?
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> ? sure, but I don't actually know what you're talking about
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> but acme/* is trash :)
01:05 <Luke-Jr> acme had a branch called dave and a tag called daveF
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> I don't recall ever branching or tagging it
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> ah, maybe those are the things cvs does on initial import
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> that would make sense, I think I passed those as arguments to cvs import
01:08 <Luke-Jr> ok
01:08 <Luke-Jr> either way, trash =p
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> yea :)
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: did you get a working arma?
01:29 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Core dumped."]
02:16 <Luke-Jr> stumbling block!
02:17 <Luke-Jr> 111 MB ---3e--> 126 MB
02:17 <Luke-Jr> eww :/
02:19 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872DC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
02:19 <z-man> #morning
02:19 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune: panic("Detected a card I can't drive - whoops\n"); || linux-2.2.16/drivers/net/daynaport.c
02:19 <z-man> anything evil happening?
02:20 * spidey is watching a documentry on the da vinci code
02:20 <z-man> Sounds evil enough for me :)
02:20 <Luke-Jr> 111 MB ---3e--> 126 MB
02:20 <Luke-Jr> eww :/
02:21 * Luke-Jr doesn't care for fiction that pretends to be non-fiction-- especially when it's plagerised
02:22 <spidey> ?
02:22 <z-man> spidey: don't! it's a trap!
02:22 <spidey> heh
02:22 <Luke-Jr> spidey: that describes Da Vinci Code
02:23 <Luke-Jr> z-man: so... IMO, 15 MB is a waste for 3e
02:23 <spidey> it's not a movie....
02:23 <spidey> it's a documentry
02:24 <Luke-Jr> it's plagerised fiction that pretends to be non-fiction
02:24 <z-man> 3e was removing the cvs revision attributes?
02:24 <Luke-Jr> yep
02:25 <spidey> dude,you're not making sense,shhhhhhhhh
02:25 <Luke-Jr> spidey: I suggest you learn the word "fiction" then, and it will make sense
02:25 <spidey> ugh
02:25 <Luke-Jr> maybe "plagerism" if you don't know that one
02:25 <spidey> fake
02:25 <spidey> not real
02:25 <spidey> i'm not retarded dude
02:25 <Luke-Jr> ok, good so you understand :)
02:25 <z-man> I don't care either way, we can leave them in as "last CVS revision that applies". Your call.
02:26 <z-man> spidey: I tried to warn you :)
02:26 <spidey> lol
02:26 <Luke-Jr> z-man: IIRC, you didn't merely *try*
02:26 <z-man> hehe
02:27 <Luke-Jr> if I leave tags out (and only remove from branches and trunk), it goes to about 1/5th
02:27 <Luke-Jr> 3.4 MB increase
02:28 <z-man> Sounds fine, I mean, they do make sense in the tags and dead branches.
02:29 <Luke-Jr> 676 KB increase if I only do trunks
02:30 <z-man> fine as well.
02:30 <z-man> Maybe the trunk and b0_2_8?
02:30 <Luke-Jr> that's harder to generate ;)
02:30 <z-man> Ok :)
02:31 * z-man is off for breakfast
02:34 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
02:34 <Luke-Jr> z-man: boo
02:34 <Luke-Jr> z-man: I wasn't done w/ you
02:34 <Luke-Jr> what of branches/v0_1_4_{6..9} ?
02:35 * Lucifer_arma has network now
02:35 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I think that's at least a little obvious =p
02:36 <Luke-Jr> ok, I think our choices are a 3.4 MB increase to prepare all branches and trunk, or a 1.7 MB increase for just trunk, 0.2.8, and 0.2.8.2 branches
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> incrase of what?
02:37 <Luke-Jr> repository size
02:37 <Luke-Jr> from 111 MB
02:38 <Luke-Jr> (15 MB increase if we prepare everything incl tags)
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> what effect will it have on us, besides increase of size?
02:38 <Luke-Jr> to summarize, it makes it sane to edit the stuff
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't matter to me, but obviously if you have to prioritize, trunk gets it :)
02:39 <Luke-Jr> trunk has it in all schemes I've tested =p
02:39 <Luke-Jr> it's a matter of preparing non-0.2.8 non-0.2.8.2 branches
02:40 <Luke-Jr> eg, is there any chance we might want to edit another branch?
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, all current branches other than 0.2.8 release branches are dead and too old to be of value and were merged awhile back
02:41 <spidey> yes i got a working arma, Lucifer
02:41 <Luke-Jr> I'm referring also to branches such as 0.2.7
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> it would be useful at some point to have 0.2.7.1 branch if there is one, but I don't know about necessary
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> right, release branches would be useful. I don't know if we'll ever do security releases of those branches, though. They're obsolete, after all ;)
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> and useful doesn't mean immediately useful or necessary. :)
02:42 <Luke-Jr> worth raising our repo size from 102% to 103% ?
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> heh, depends on where the upper limit is. If the upper limit were 105%, then no, but if it's 2000000%, obviously yes :)
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> is there an upper limit?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> not AFAIK
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> I seem to remember the policy on cvs was "reasonable size for your project"
02:44 <Luke-Jr> 114% increase for mere property maintenance just looked ugly
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> well, we *need* trunk and 0.2.8. I guess I'd put other release branches as second priority, and the remaining branches after that.
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> is it something you can add later?
02:45 <Luke-Jr> yes
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> alright, here you go. Will it be easier to add or subtract the branches later?
02:45 <Luke-Jr> subtracting, but we're not adding or subtracting anything
02:45 <Luke-Jr> just preparing them for editing
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> ah. mmmm, I can't say it matters terribly to me
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> what do you want to do?
02:46 <Luke-Jr> I figure just do all the branches (+trunk) just so we don't need to worry about it
02:46 <z-man> Luke-Jr: wel, breakfast doesn't take that long :)
02:46 <Luke-Jr> (in the future)
02:46 <z-man> fine by me.
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah, I just can't muster enough caring on the matter. ;)
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> but this xchat is both realy cool and really annoying
02:47 <Luke-Jr> ok I'll do that then
02:47 <Luke-Jr> ...
02:47 <Luke-Jr> wtf does x-chat come into the picture? =p
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's what I'm using right now--no Konversation
02:48 <Luke-Jr> z-man: what of branches/v0_1_4_{6..9} ?
02:48 * Luke-Jr has always been using X-Chat
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> we'll definitely be bringing those back up and doing real work in them ;P
02:48 <z-man> the're dead and can keep their cvs revisions.
02:48 <z-man> I wouldn't mind if everything kept them, to be honest :)
02:49 <Luke-Jr> erm
02:49 <z-man> but in the trunk, they should probably be removed.
02:49 <Luke-Jr> I meant in regard to being branches with 'v'
02:49 <z-man> oh
02:49 <Luke-Jr> just misnamed?
02:49 <z-man> I can't remember, really.
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat. Emerge-Pkg does just what you'd expect it to do
02:49 <z-man> I didn't have a naming convention back then, obviously.
02:50 <Luke-Jr> or should they be tags?
02:50 <Luke-Jr> hm
02:50 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: eh?
02:50 <z-man> If they're branches, they should be branches.
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it scans dependencies, then downloads the source tarballs, then compiles them all
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> sweet!
02:50 <z-man> Even if they contain only a single revision.
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> svn has tags? I thought it didn't...
02:51 <z-man> It hasn't natively.
02:51 <z-man> They're copies, just like branches.
02:51 <Luke-Jr> 1.4.6/7 seem to be tags from the 'z-man' branch...
02:52 <Luke-Jr> 1.4.8 seems to be a tag from HEAD, but with a single MSVC++ fix commit
02:52 <Luke-Jr> 1.4.9 seems to be a tag from HEAD
02:52 * Lucifer_arma wonders how much damage he'll do when he mounts up his regular home partition to his t2 installation
02:52 <Luke-Jr> I'm tempted to just move them over into tags...
02:52 <z-man> You'll remove all of them later anyway, so what's the big deal?
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> I guess there's only one way to find out
02:53 * Luke-Jr has no intention to remove them...
02:53 <z-man> Yes, make them tags, no problem.
02:53 <z-man> remove == svn delete
02:53 <z-man> hide them.
02:53 * Luke-Jr knows
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> how do you screenshot one of the console login screens?
02:54 <Luke-Jr> they're planned to remain as historical
02:54 * z-man knows Luke-Jr knows
02:54 <z-man> So, they're technically branches, but really were used more like tags?
02:56 <Luke-Jr> yes
02:56 <Luke-Jr> maybe cvs2svn misdetected them or something
02:57 <z-man> No, they are branches for sure, checked with cvs log
02:58 <z-man> I'd say: make them tags.
02:58 <z-man> There really wasn't any non-linear development going on in them, IIRC.
02:59 <Luke-Jr> there wasn't any development in them
02:59 <Luke-Jr> with exception to a MSVC++ fix in 1.4.8
02:59 <Luke-Jr> a single commit
02:59 <z-man> That doesn't contratict my statement :)
02:59 <z-man> Tags.
03:01 <Luke-Jr> I know
03:03 <Luke-Jr> um... is our trunk really 7 MB larger than 0.2.8?
03:03 -!- Lucifer_arma_ [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> hi luci
03:03 <z-man> We have the music files in there
03:04 <Lucifer_arma_> hi
03:04 * Luke-Jr blames Lucifer_arma
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's his fault
03:04 <Lucifer_arma_> no it's not, it's his
03:04 <Luke-Jr> are they big?
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> ok, this isn't fun anymore, closing xchat
03:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
03:04 -!- Lucifer_arma_ is now known as Lucifer_arma
03:04 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, shouldn't they be like MIDI?
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> no
03:04 <Luke-Jr> or some other instrumental format
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> midi sucks
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> they're vorbis
03:04 <z-man> No, 2 mb
03:04 <Luke-Jr> blah
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> the music is really 2mb?
03:05 <Luke-Jr> isn't there some source format?
03:05 <z-man> according to du, yes
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> wow, I thought they were a little smaller
03:05 <z-man> Yes, but you need Lucifer_arma and a guitar to compile it :)
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yes, the source format for those tracks takes up somewhere around 40MB
03:05 <Luke-Jr> hrm, analog compositions?
03:05 <Luke-Jr> o
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> drum track, bass track, 2 guitar tracks
03:06 <Luke-Jr> and MIDI cannot do that?
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> 2 songs, the one Raoul gave us is just the vorbis
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> we had this conversation awhile back, iirc. I won't do midi, if y'all want midi, get it from someone else
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> the consensus was that vorbis was fine
03:06 <Luke-Jr> what's wrong w/ MIDI tho?
03:07 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't mind having this conversation again--on the forums where everyone can participate and not here as bitching about repository size
03:07 <z-man> Let's not have this discussion now, OK?
03:07 <z-man> The music is in CVS, and to preserver history, it needs to be in SVN as well.
03:07 <Luke-Jr> I know
03:07 <Luke-Jr> ok
03:08 <n54> easy like sunday morning ^^
03:08 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> so, anybody know why I can't su?
03:08 <guru3> not in the right group?
03:08 <philippeqc> you are not in the group wheel
03:08 <Lucifer_arma> I can login as root from a terminal, but I can't su to it for some reason
03:09 <n54> hi guru3 :)
03:09 <guru3> good morning n54, everyone
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> so how do I add myself to that group?
03:09 <guru3> login as root?
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I can probably add myself to sudoers :)
03:09 <guru3> edit /etc/group ?
03:10 * Lucifer_arma has always managed users with nice graphical tools
03:10 * Luke-Jr prefers to add groups by editing /etc/group
03:10 <guru3> D:
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, how do I edit /etc/group? s in what's the format?
03:10 <Luke-Jr> text/plain
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, I know it's not xml...
03:10 <guru3> it's groupname:x:number:bits
03:10 <guru3> umm
03:10 <guru3> bits=members
03:10 <spidey> Lucifer sudo su works
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> bits=number? comma-separated list of usernames?
03:11 <guru3> comma bla bla
03:11 <Luke-Jr> spidey: ... or sudo -s
03:12 <spidey> yer
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> that worked, thanks guru3
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> now why isn't it getting /etc/profile? :(
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> ok, one more thing, bbiab
03:13 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:13 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you're not telling it to?
03:17 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> haha, that was dumb
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> um, brb
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03:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you're not telling it to?
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> not telling it to what?
03:20 <Luke-Jr> not telling su to do a login
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> ?
03:20 <Luke-Jr> su -
03:20 <philippeqc> su - will load the environment variable associated to the new user
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. I'm accustomed to opening konsole as a regular user and then doing "su" to do stuff
03:21 <Luke-Jr> though I must admit, I've never had to use the - under Gentoo
03:21 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: alias su='su -' may help
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> it's not sourcing /etc/profile though
03:21 <n54> su is short for switch user afaik
03:21 <Luke-Jr> only login shells source /etc/profile
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, even konsole isn't sourcing it
03:21 <philippeqc> depends on the path setting you have to your regular user. Often regular users dont have access to /sbin, and lots of the things I do as su are from /sbin
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> ok, maybe not that, but it's not sourcing wherever my prompt is
03:22 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Konsole isn't a login shell by default
03:22 <Luke-Jr> try konsole --ls
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> right, I'm getting a generic bash prompt, that's the only problem :)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> I want the pretty green one this thing has in it :)
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> now building firefox
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> oh wait
03:24 <n54> copy the setting from "which thing" whatever/wherever :) (it will work if the "other thing" has the appropriate stuff for using colors - otherwise you will need to add some small stuff *forgot the names*)
03:24 * n54 wasn't exactly helpful there ^^
03:24 <n54> early morning :) bbl
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> thanks n54, that was very helpful!
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, 5.9GB isn't enough for this operating system
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> what kind of crazy shit is that?!?!?
03:29 <z-man> Is this the T2 thing now?
03:29 <z-man> 5.9 GB for the final installation or the build?
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, t2. Final installation
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> I ran cleanup and now it's in 4.9G
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> it is a source distribution, though...
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> and I built the desktop target, there's a bunch of shit here I don't need :)
03:30 <z-man> Both KDE and GNOME?
03:30 <z-man> Oo?
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> I think so
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> I think I got the whole thing, enlightenment, windowmaker, all that crap
03:32 <z-man> Windowmaker isn't crap!
03:32 * z-man is only using KDE for KTeaTimer :)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> haha
03:33 * Lucifer_arma has wondered for some time if anybody uses KTeaTimer
03:33 <z-man> Well, it's almost true. KTeaTimer and a console with tabs are basically all I'm asking for.
03:34 <z-man> And regular K applications also run fine in WindowMaker.
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> how the hell do you make a package!?!?!?
03:34 * Lucifer_arma always thought WindowMaker and KDE were pretty close
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't WM use Qt?
03:34 <z-man> I don't think so
03:36 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I used to use KTeaTimer
03:36 <Luke-Jr> It's a nice little program
03:36 <Luke-Jr> just needs a rename and some stuff
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> rename? what for?
03:37 <Luke-Jr> does anyone use it for tea?
03:37 <Luke-Jr> I used mine for ramen, angelhair, etc
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> you time ramen?
03:39 <z-man> Tea gives a nice icon theme, that's all.
03:40 <z-man> And in fact, I do use it for tea most of the time :)
03:40 * Lucifer_arma doesn't time his food, he has a good internal clock
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> except I do have a tendency to forget about my tea....
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> alright, building armagetron
03:42 <n54> here you go Lucifer http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-tip-prompt/ *n54 is slightly more useful now* *goes away again*
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> probably going to fail over some dependency
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> sdl? I don't have sdl?
03:44 <Luke-Jr> lol
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't have libsdl_image
03:47 * Lucifer_arma sighs while he makes yet another package
03:48 * Lucifer_arma has distcc now, though. :)
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> --disable-sysinstall disables sysinstall script, right?
03:54 <Luke-Jr> ...
03:54 <Luke-Jr> --help
03:54 <Luke-Jr> anyway, 4a is taking a while... going to get some sleep
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> 'night
03:55 <philippeqc> night
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> me is hoping to play some arma from his t2 package tonight
03:55 * Lucifer_arma is hoping to play some arma from his t2 package tonight
03:55 * Lucifer_arma wonders if the irc creators came up with /me to make us all talk like Cookie Monster
03:56 <philippeqc> The cookie monster conspiracy?
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> there can be no other explanation
03:57 * philippeqc suddenly notice the unmarked van parked in front of my flat
03:57 <z-man> Is it true the Cookie Monster isn't eating cookies any more?
03:57 <philippeqc> No no, I think you are wrong, the /me is the best thing ever
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> not sure. They did say he would be less crazy about cookies, to promote healthy eating habits
03:58 <philippeqc> The Veggie Monster?
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> personally, I always thought if they just made him puke occasionally they could accomplish that while maintaining the integrity of the character
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> but puking isn't politically correct
03:58 <z-man> Or really fat :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> what does this mean? :
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> Making post-install adaptions.
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> Found shared files with other packages:
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> etc/group: armagetronad sysfiles
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> etc/gshadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> etc/passwd: armagetronad sysfiles
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> etc/shadow: armagetronad sysfiles
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> for armagetronad
03:59 <philippeqc> Yes we need more puppet characters to promote bulemia.
03:59 <z-man> Possibly autodetected from the useradd command?
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> I think I just disabled sysinstall
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> it's --disable-sysinstall right?
04:00 <z-man> Mmm, then, of course, that shouldn't be called. Yes, its that swithc.
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> and it is the client, after all
04:00 <z-man> bizarre
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> 0.2.8.1, though
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> it made the sysinstall script
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> are we accidentally still making and installing it?
04:03 <z-man> I don't think so, the autopackage build would break then.
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> scriptsToBuild=$(masterScripts) $(dedScripts) $(regScripts) sysinstall
04:03 <z-man> The sysinstall script should be generated and installed, but not executed if you specify --disable-sysinstall
04:04 <z-man> It's supposed to be executed by the package's post-install hook.
04:04 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't put anything in the post-install hook
04:04 <Lucifer_arma> just generic stuff
04:05 <Lucifer_arma> it could be automatically detecting sysinstall and trying to execute it
04:06 <guru3> woooo my mom is ordering the 770 now :D
04:07 <philippeqc> the 770 what?
04:07 <n54> :)
04:07 <guru3> nokia 770
04:07 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I don't think it would be sensible to do such a thing, finding scripts and randomly executing them. Especially since sysinstall takes parameters.
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: sweet!
04:08 <z-man> I checked, 0.2.8.1 client does try to install the user.
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: well, it does check configure && make && make install :)
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> does 0.2.8.1rcwhateer?
04:08 <z-man> yeah, but that's standard :)
04:08 <z-man> The rc clients don't add a user.
04:09 <z-man> But it's an odd problem anyway.
04:09 <philippeqc> o wow, neato
04:09 <z-man> Can you send the complete shell output over?
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> if you can tell me what the name of the tarball is :)
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> have to wait until it fails this time
04:11 <z-man> Anyway, time for some sports. I'll be sort of back in two hours or so.
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ko
04:12 <philippeqc> ok, cya
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> can I see myself?
04:18 <spidey> no
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, failed on the rc also
04:22 <spidey> ?
04:22 <spidey> http://www.tzo.com/mainpagetext/DynamicDNSorStaticIP.html
04:23 <spidey> charter charges $130 a month for a static ip?
04:23 <spidey> you gotta be shitting me >.>
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> that's annoying as hell. The thing has resurrected my old mandriva menu!
04:26 <spidey> pwnt?
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> no, just what happens when you keep the same home partition through several distribution changes
04:27 * Lucifer_arma needs to look into fixing that
04:27 <spidey> lol
04:27 <spidey> dude
04:27 <spidey> it's either my network or charter's fucking up again
04:28 <spidey> webpages either don't load,or load slow as hell
04:28 <spidey> everything else is normal :/
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> #message z-man same problem with rc1
04:30 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab
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04:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50872DC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:46 <spidey> sleep!!!!
04:47 -!- spidey is now known as McSpiddlesGoesSl
04:47 <McSpiddlesGoesSl> 'er
04:47 -!- McSpiddlesGoesSl is now known as McSpiddles|sleep
04:47 <McSpiddles|sleep> meg
04:47 <McSpiddles|sleep> meh
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05:56 * n54 just watched prison break episode 21 *phew* :o
06:05 <guru3> hrhrhr
06:05 <n54> :)
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08:43 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:44 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: panic("do_trap: can't hit this"); || linux-2.6.6/arch/i386/mm/extable.c
08:45 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: not jpeg2000, wmp (not windows media player, but windows media photo). Totally useless since jpeg2000 is already there and PNG does a better job on lossless compression
08:56 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
08:57 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma i use kteatimer :P
08:57 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
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13:53 <philippeqc> Hummm, once cant compare 2 std::auto_ptr.
13:53 <philippeqc> s/once/one
13:54 <philippeqc> That makes it difficult to have sets of auto_ptr<junk>.
13:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, you can, but it's pointless
13:55 <wrtlprnft> &*ptr_1 == &*ptr_2
13:55 <wrtlprnft> or ptr_1.get() == ptr_2.get()
13:55 <philippeqc> o
13:55 <wrtlprnft> two auto_ptrs should never contain the same pointer
13:56 <philippeqc> yes, but I'm looking for the mecanism that I'll need to overload so I can compare the stuff inside of junk inside of the auto_ptr.
13:56 * philippeqc feels very technical
13:56 <wrtlprnft> oh, the stuff inside...
13:57 <philippeqc> yep, and with your hints, I think I get how to proceed
13:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:57 <wrtlprnft> *ptr_1 == *ptr_2
13:57 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
13:57 <Luke-Jr> 4a done
13:57 <philippeqc> sorry for not being clear about the stuff of junk
13:58 <philippeqc> cya
13:58 <philippeqc> nice
14:00 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: oups, its std::set<auto_ptr<junk> >
14:00 <philippeqc> that I need to compare
14:01 <z-man> philippeqc: have you looked at boost::any?
14:01 <philippeqc> nope
14:01 <z-man> It's a generic union
14:01 <z-man> I don't know how it works, to be honest, but it's a type that can contain any other type
14:02 <z-man> and I think it has comparison operators.
14:02 <Luke-Jr> but it probably depends on boost
14:02 <philippeqc> what is boost?
14:02 -!- McSpiddles|sleep is now known as spidey
14:03 <Luke-Jr> a gnome library, IIRC
14:03 <z-man> boost is a template library
14:03 <z-man> it doesn't belong to anything
14:04 <z-man> it's sort of a testing ground for things to be proposed as future parts of std::
14:04 <z-man> (some see it like that, anyway)
14:04 <philippeqc> "Most of the limitation of std::auto_ptr are relatively well known:
14:04 <philippeqc> * std::auto_ptr's cannot be stored within a standard containers."
14:04 <z-man> http://www.boost.org/
14:04 <z-man> philippeqc: correct
14:05 <philippeqc> ok, now I'm REALLY interested.
14:05 <z-man> they have... unusually copy semantics
14:05 <z-man> unusual
14:05 <philippeqc> http://www.codeproject.com/vcpp/stl/boostintro.asp
14:06 <z-man> http://www.boost.org/doc/html/boost/any.html
14:06 <z-man> that'
14:06 <philippeqc> well, MAYBE the idea of dealing with sets' of auto_ptr was not fully considered. More of a "he phil, now that your code is somewhat working, why not put auto_ptr all over it"
14:06 <z-man> tha'ts boost::any
14:07 <z-man> hmm, it doesn't have < > comparisons
14:08 <Luke-Jr> anyone know what b_1_0 was for macosx_recorder?
14:09 <z-man> nemostultae may
14:10 <Luke-Jr> it's branches/.1.0 now
14:13 <philippeqc> z-man, then how do they make it work in collections without < ?
14:14 <z-man> Don't ask me, I was only dropping a name :(
14:14 <z-man> Perhaps it can be added?
14:14 <philippeqc> grrr, I get a 404 on the page presenting boost different smart pointers
14:15 <z-man> they've got shared_ptr and scoped_ptr, IIRC
14:15 <philippeqc> http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/smart_ptr.htm
14:15 <z-man> shared_ptr probably is what you want, scoped_ptr is like auto_ptr
14:17 <philippeqc> ok thanks
14:22 * joda_bot is back to bed ... cu all
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14:40 <Luke-Jr> nemostultae: lala ping
14:41 <Luke-Jr> nemostultae: what is/was b_1_0 and do we need it beyond history?
14:51 <philippeqc> dumb question, what is the diff between ia64 and x86_64?
14:55 <z-man> ia is Intel Architecture
14:57 <z-man> If you have a system, it's most likely x86_64.
14:58 <philippeqc> so ia would be both cpu and moderboard's chipset from Intel?
14:58 <z-man> yes
14:59 <philippeqc> ok, thanks
14:59 <z-man> And not just any intel, one of those Itanium things.
15:00 <philippeqc> my mandriva seems a bit screwed. I'm unable to install new packages. I've tried to clear a few package location, rebuild the database of packages, but it still refuse to take in new sources
15:04 * z-man doesn't know a thing about mandriva
15:09 <spidey> i tried mandrivia once
15:09 <spidey> didn' like it :/
15:12 <philippeqc> I tried debian, and gave me a heck of a prob. Then Red Hat, and t'was a pain. Then Mandrake just worked for me. Or rather, the bits that where important worked, so I wanted to continue fixing it. Then i realised distro are like colors. Try a few till you find one that looks nice for you.
15:13 <philippeqc> I did try gentoo for a while, till I realised that a) there was no perceivable gain in performance and b) I spent more time maintaining it and updating it than actually using it ;) came back to Mandriva.
15:13 <philippeqc> but now I suspect its the db of the package that is at fault, it just the first time I ever have such a prob.
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15:30 * z-man notes it's approx. one hour til bedtime (and will only sporadically listen here), so if Luke-Jr has something to ask him, that's the limit.
15:31 <spidey> in 100 years everyone living right now will be dead!
15:31 <spidey> comferting eh?
15:31 <ghableska> very...
15:31 <spidey> lol
15:33 <Vanhayes> well im only 17 and in 100 years medicine will probly be better so there is a chance I might be alive then
15:33 <philippeqc> Ha, a schrodinger's problem. I sat and watched all the segment of the database get redownloaded, and now it works. I might have _also_ erased the corrupt bits in the right order this time to, but I'm quite confident that watching the megabytes get downloaded made sure they wherent corrupted
15:34 <spidey> van you're 17?
15:35 <spidey> i always thought you was older :/
15:35 <spidey> i'll be 17 in november :D
15:37 <Vanhayes> 18 in september for me
15:37 <spidey> i'll be glad when i turn 18
15:37 <spidey> can move outta this place
15:37 <spidey> >.>
15:37 <philippeqc> 32 the 18 nov here
15:39 <spidey> cool
15:41 <n54> 32 already (and it sucks!) ^^
15:42 <spidey> lmao
15:43 <n54> :)
15:43 * spidey wants to urn 21 and not get older
15:43 <ghableska> you have a lot to look forward too then ;)
15:43 <spidey> s/urn/turn
15:43 <spidey> ghab
15:44 <spidey> that fortress server you had up,did you host it?
15:44 <ghableska> yep
15:44 <spidey> cool
15:44 <spidey> i would put mine back up
15:45 <spidey> but i'm not putting it on my windows box,and i don't know where the config fles and stuff is in linux
15:46 <Vanhayes> why do you want to turn 21 and not older?
15:47 <spidey> i'm young,it's normal
15:47 <spidey> lol
15:47 <ghableska> :P
15:47 <spidey> :p
15:48 <Vanhayes> but why 21?
15:49 <spidey> cause i can buy liquor and not have other people get it >.>
15:50 <spidey> grrrrr,i need another mouse :|
15:50 <Vanhayes> wait where is it 21 that you can buy liqur?
15:50 <ghableska> US
15:50 <spidey> US
15:50 <spidey> what he said
15:50 <Vanhayes> all US?
15:50 <spidey> yea
15:51 <Vanhayes> that would suck
15:51 <spidey> lol
15:51 <Vanhayes> only 19 here
15:51 <spidey> yea
15:51 <Vanhayes> 18 in Alberta
15:51 <Vanhayes> those drunks
15:51 <ghableska> :P
15:51 <spidey> you can.have to(if you're drafted) at 18 go die for your country but you can't drink
15:51 <spidey> gey
15:51 <spidey> gay*
15:52 <ghableska> heh
15:53 <Vanhayes> wait you can still get drafted!!!
15:53 <spidey> yer
15:53 <Vanhayes> wow I thought US got rid of that
15:53 <spidey> nah
15:53 <ghableska> not yet at least
15:53 <Vanhayes> that would suck, Hard
15:56 <spidey> interesting
15:56 <ghableska> ?
15:57 <spidey> hey ghab,during the 9-11 attacks,did you see on the news about the bomb on the george washington bridge?
15:57 <ghableska> nope
15:57 <spidey> i just found a artical about it :.
15:57 <spidey> :/
15:57 <ghableska> weird
15:57 <ghableska> same day?
15:57 <spidey> yea
15:57 <spidey> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
15:58 <spidey> i heard it in a song,so i googled it
16:12 <philippeqc> bed time
16:12 <philippeqc> cya
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16:48 <Vanhayes> cya
16:48 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188363.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:54 <guru3> a note about the mysql redundancy: one wee colision screws everything up
16:54 <guru3> until you remove the colision
16:54 <guru3> and then it syncs up perfectly
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17:11 <madmax|pt> hello
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17:18 <[2l4]FLAG_afk> Servus to all the community
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17:20 <guru3> nn ya'll
17:36 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
17:40 <z-man> bedtime for me, too. Good day, Lucifer_arma.
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> morning
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17:49 <spidey> doooooooooood
17:49 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188363.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:49 <ghableska> hi
17:49 <spidey> hayes
17:49 <Vanhayes> hey ghab
17:49 <spidey> i love hayes
17:49 <spidey> she's gonna be the mother of my kids
17:49 <Vanhayes> she?
17:50 <spidey> :p
17:50 <ghableska> o_0
17:50 <spidey> lol
17:52 <madmax|pt> hello hayes, ghab
17:52 <ghableska> hi madmax|pt
17:54 <madmax|pt> guys, are we ever going to finish the spoon!?
17:54 <ghableska> lol, I don't know
17:54 <madmax|pt> what about the game with mbc?
17:54 <madmax|pt> spidey?
17:54 <ghableska> everyone was confused about the times
17:55 <Vanhayes> hey madmax
17:56 <Vanhayes> nothing is planned atm, and I'm kinda busy for a while, so if anyone wants to set it up go ahead
17:57 <ghableska> anyone seen 2020 around recently?
17:57 <Vanhayes> a few days ago
17:57 <madmax|pt> no...
18:01 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188363.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:08 <ghableska>
18:11 <madmax|pt>
18:11 <ghableska> :P
18:12 <madmax|pt> lol
18:14 <spidey> max?
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18:18 <madmax|pt> do you know anything about some match with mbc vs aw?
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> I don't
18:21 <spidey> no
18:21 <spidey> ask wrtl,he's the one that sets them up
18:25 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-9-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.example.com/
18:27 * Lucifer_arma is testing his custom colors, pay no attention
18:28 <spidey> lol
18:28 <spidey> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
18:28 <ghableska> ?
18:28 <spidey> i'm getting very annoyed
18:28 <spidey> something's wrong with my network
18:29 <spidey> websites take forever and a day to load
18:29 <spidey> :/
18:30 <spidey> rebooting the router
18:30 <spidey> brb
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> t2 has pyqt
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, reboot the router and the cable modem
18:31 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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18:31 <spidey> meh
18:32 <spidey> that didn't help
18:32 <spidey> :/
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> probably just some kid near you using up all the bandwidth
18:32 <ghableska> :P
18:32 <spidey> that id being me?
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> in english?
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> ah, nvm
18:33 <spidey> s/id/kid
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> sure, you using a lot of bandwidth?
18:33 <spidey> no...
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> you know a cable connection is shared, you're basically sharing it with the people near you
18:33 <spidey> i live in the sticks.....
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how far the sharing goes, though
18:33 <spidey> old people out here....
18:34 <spidey> i have p2p capped at 200kb/s
18:34 <spidey> that leaves 150+kb/s
18:34 <spidey> and i don't share the files so my upload isn't affected by it
18:35 <Lucifer_arma> leech!
18:35 <spidey> hey, i have 30kb/s upload
18:35 <spidey> i don't have enough to share with p2p
18:35 <spidey> teamspeak takes half that
18:35 <spidey> then when i play games like halo or tron,the other half is gone
18:36 <spidey> there we go
18:36 <spidey> loading fine now
18:37 <spidey> guess 2 months is too long to go without restarting a router
18:37 <spidey> heh
18:38 * Lucifer_arma notes that the Pure and Virtuous shut down the other stuff while they're trading P2P, and then shut down P2P when they're done.
18:39 <spidey> i multi task alot
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's official. Java is dangerous.
18:39 <spidey> and everything i do uses bandwith
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5025874.stm
18:39 <spidey> shell server on this box,teamspeak and sometimes tron or soldat server on the windows box
18:41 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> I think my wife killed both of my kids' fish today
18:45 <Luke-Jr> !!!
18:47 <Lucifer_arma> she cleaned their tanks, changed half of the water
18:47 <Lucifer_arma> she added cold tap water, and she didn't add the water treatment because "I don't know where it is"
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> their tropical fish!
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> *they're
18:48 <Luke-Jr> you know, if you just let the tap water settle for 1 hour it's ok
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> the book we have says to aerate it for 48 hours or let it settle for a week
18:48 <Luke-Jr> hm
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> but you never add it to a tank with live fish without doing *something*
18:49 <Luke-Jr> erm, no
18:49 <Luke-Jr> that
18:49 <Luke-Jr> that's not good
18:49 <Luke-Jr> should always move the fish to a jar or such first
18:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, one of them has stuck his head in the corner by the rocks and quit moving, looks dead
18:49 <Lucifer_arma> the other is settling on the bottom on top of the pebbles and starting to lean, I don't think he's going to make it
18:49 <Luke-Jr> fish float when dead
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> no, they don't. :)
18:50 * Lucifer_arma has already buried one fish from these tanks
18:50 <Luke-Jr> yes they do... >.>
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it depends on the breed?
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> these are bettas
18:50 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
18:50 <Luke-Jr> could be, but I've never heard of otherwise
18:50 <Luke-Jr> my last one was a betta
18:51 <Luke-Jr> but I didn't see it die either
18:51 <Lucifer_arma> they also sleep near the bottom sometimes, resting on the pebbles, so maybe this other one's taking a nap
18:51 <Luke-Jr> my first fish played dead all the time before he finally died, tho
18:51 <Lucifer_arma> but cold tap water is just bad news, and it ws half the water in the tank
18:52 <Luke-Jr> he was only supposed to live a week, but ended up making it like 7 years or so
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's cool. why was he only supposed to live a week?
18:53 <Luke-Jr> just one of those breeds
19:27 <Lucifer_arma> "Can you pick this stuff up?"
19:27 <Lucifer_arma> "I don't know where it all goes."
19:27 <Lucifer_arma> "It's your room, you get to decide where it goes."
19:27 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh!" :)
19:28 <Luke-Jr> "It goes on the floor right there :)"
19:28 <wrtlprnft> #later tell madmax uh, currently there's no match planned, but I'd like us to play them...
19:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> haha
19:33 <wrtlprnft> #later tell phil uh, the fact that you can't put std::auto_ptrs into containers is exactly why i made tAutoDeque ;)
19:33 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:35 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: is svn supposed to work by now? It doesn't for me :(
19:35 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
19:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
19:36 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: waiting for nemo to tell me wtf b_1_0 is
19:36 <wrtlprnft> what does it contain?
19:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
19:38 <ghableska> hello
19:38 <wrtlprnft> #hi ghableska
19:39 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: it appears to be the initial import... o.O
19:40 * Luke-Jr considers just trashing it
19:40 <wrtlprnft> it will still be in the old CVS, right?
19:40 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft
19:40 <wrtlprnft> so you could just delete it now and if it turns out to be important put it in...
19:43 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: it will still be in Svn history, yes
19:46 <wrtlprnft> * gas/liquid/solid (states of matter representing the stability, easily extended to "plasma" for experimental stuff)
19:46 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:46 <ghableska> O_o
19:47 <wrtlprnft> you don't *mean* that, do you Luke-Jr?
19:54 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
19:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's what you put on the wiki
19:55 <Luke-Jr> no
19:55 <spidey> O_O
19:55 <wrtlprnft> or, no, sorry
19:55 <wrtlprnft> that was z-man
19:56 <Luke-Jr> ...
19:56 <spidey> ...
19:57 <wrtlprnft> actually it's a great idea, now that it doesn't come from Luke-Jr
19:57 <wrtlprnft> jk
19:57 <spidey> lol
19:57 <spidey> pwnt
19:59 <ghableska> :/
20:00 <spidey> i love you ghab?
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> couple of comments, maybe I should post them. :)
20:00 <spidey> -?
20:00 <ghableska> huh?
20:00 <spidey> i
20:00 <spidey> love
20:00 <spidey> joo
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> OS X isn't unix, afaik. At least, from our point of view for building workspaces it probably needs its own workspace.
20:01 <Lucifer_arma> Also, I don't think private spaces should be "no access by other people". That's not transparency! At least let everyone else have read access to them.
20:02 <ghableska> <3
20:02 <spidey> <3
20:02 <ghableska> <3
20:03 <wrtlprnft> why would i upload it to sf if only i could access it?
20:03 <Lucifer_arma> "At some point, private branches in the repository may be available to non-developers on request." <-- very last line on the wiki page
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> if that means "only developers have read access to it", then I'm opposed to it.
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> However, it could mean non-developers can be given write access to it without exposing the whole repository, in which case I'm all over it, I like that.
20:05 <Lucifer_arma> but I think we should look over submaster closely to provide a way for non-developers to participate in development
20:05 <Lucifer_arma> :)
20:05 <wrtlprnft> we could make a branch for non-devs :)
20:06 <wrtlprnft> if there's no changes for a week we'll just overwrite it with the trunk, if there is we look at them :)
20:06 <wrtlprnft> and decide if we a) delete them, b) move them to the trunk or c) keep them there and merge the trunk into them
20:07 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: we can't block read access, FWIW
20:08 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: that last line is meant that we may grant non-developers write access to their own /private/name dir
20:08 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't think we could, anyway, but we are kinda looking to move away from sourceforge. This change to svn is a stepping-stone.
20:08 <Luke-Jr> I don't think SF allows us to do ACL-level control of Svn
20:09 <Luke-Jr> but once we leave SF, we can use those to allow Self_Destructo to write only to /private/Self_Destructo
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> we might be able to host such an area on one of our own servers
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> it's not "mission-critical" the same way the trunk is
20:10 <Lucifer_arma> I noticed when I checked out t2 that it went to 3 different repositories. Is that one of the things this external reference lets us do?
20:10 <Luke-Jr> yes
20:10 <Luke-Jr> in fact, I'm thinking we should see if we can replace parts of winlibs or src/thirdparty with externals
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> that depends on some of those things being hosted on svn repos. :/
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> shttpd might be, they're a sourceforge project
20:11 <Luke-Jr> yes
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> the Particle System is not, however. His development tree is closed, we're stuck with releases.
20:12 <Lucifer_arma> binreloc might be on a svn repo, though. That's with autopackage
20:12 <Lucifer_arma> what else is in there?
20:12 <Luke-Jr> SDL
20:12 <Luke-Jr> libxml2
20:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's it for src/thirdparty
20:12 <Luke-Jr> winlibs
20:13 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.libsdl.org/svn.php
20:13 <Lucifer_arma> libxml2 is in cvs
20:15 <Lucifer_arma> shttpd is still in cvs, hasn't made the switch yet
20:17 <Lucifer_arma> autopackage is in cvs still, too
20:22 <Luke-Jr> darcs needs copies/branches and intra-repository moves
20:22 <Luke-Jr> then it would be perfect ;)
20:23 <Luke-Jr> oh, and the ability to get only a segment of a repository...
20:30 <Luke-Jr> hrm
20:30 <Luke-Jr> that 'z-man' branch looks like it might have been a '0.1.4' branch
20:45 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:46 <SuPeRTaRD> i got yer 'branch' right here
20:47 * SuPeRTaRD grabs self *
20:47 <SuPeRTaRD> :)
20:47 <Lucifer_arma> 1 fish dead, probably the other one soon if it's not dead yet
20:47 * Lucifer_arma is pissed about it
20:47 * Lucifer_arma worked hard to take care of those fish
20:48 <Lucifer_arma> and then it's all fucked over when my wife goes and puts in cold untreated tap water
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> now my wife tells me the other fish is dead, too
20:53 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't one know that?
20:54 <wrtlprnft> that you shouldn't put water in a tank without knowing what you're doing?
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> the risk with her is that she always knows what she's doing :/
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> not as bad as Luke-Jr, she actually listens
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> but I was asleep
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> (I say that, but Luke-Jr has been doing a much better job of listening lately)
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> I always thought the Chipettes were hot
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> anybody know if dietlibc will run python?
21:29 <Luke-Jr> try? =p
21:29 <Luke-Jr> full trunk checkout is 64 MB
21:31 <Luke-Jr> full repository checkout is somewhere around 500 MB IIRC
21:32 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.175.102] has joined #armagetron
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> what's in a full checkout?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> if you checkout the trunk, do you get the history, too?
21:32 <Lucifer_arma> full trunk checkout, that is
21:32 <wrtlprnft> winlibs and stiff
21:32 <wrtlprnft> *stuff
21:32 <wrtlprnft> all modules, if i got that right
21:33 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: everything
21:33 <Luke-Jr> if you checkout trunk, you get latest armagetronad, winlibs, build*, macosx_recorder
21:33 <Luke-Jr> if you checkout the full repo, you get all branches, tags, etc
21:33 <Luke-Jr> and tools
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> aha, ok
21:33 <Luke-Jr> Repository size is 115 MB
21:34 <Luke-Jr> dumpfile is 43 MB
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> how big is a minimal checkout? i.e. just the old armagetronad module
21:34 <wrtlprnft> so, is it supposed to work now?
21:34 * wrtlprnft is impatient, he knows
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> what's cpio?
21:34 <Luke-Jr> 26 MB
21:35 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no, I need to upload it
21:35 <Luke-Jr> cpio is something like tar
21:37 <Luke-Jr> 30 KB/sec is too
21:37 <Luke-Jr> slow
21:37 <Luke-Jr> let's uncap for wrtlprnft ;)
21:41 <Luke-Jr> hopefully SF's actual loading won't take long
21:41 <Luke-Jr> ~10 min on transfer
21:43 <wrtlprnft> :)
21:47 <Luke-Jr> transfer 50%
21:47 <wrtlprnft> wow. a 1v1 tournament must be extremely boring...
21:47 <Luke-Jr> note only up to stage 4c are done
21:47 <Luke-Jr> stage 5 requires code modifications, so it will happen later
21:48 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090C43B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:49 <Luke-Jr> http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn_migration.php
21:49 <Luke-Jr> note the upload isn't done yet, I'm hoping it will finish while we wait and I won't need to wait again
21:49 <wrtlprnft> Error
21:49 <wrtlprnft> GROUP PROBLEM
21:49 <wrtlprnft> PROBLEM CREATING GROUP OBJECT
21:50 <Luke-Jr> try again =p
21:50 <Luke-Jr> oops, we're out of queue before ul done
21:50 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:50 <wrtlprnft> same error
21:51 <Luke-Jr> http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn_migration.php?group_id=110997
21:51 <wrtlprnft> 2006-05-28 21:502006-05-28 21:50 FAILED
21:52 <wrtlprnft> O_o
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> 2006-05-28 19:50 2006-05-28 19:50 FAILED
21:52 <Luke-Jr> like I said
21:52 <Luke-Jr> upload isn't there
21:53 <Luke-Jr> 96$
21:53 <Luke-Jr> %
21:53 * Lucifer_arma wonders what he needs to put on his cd to satisfy python dependencies
21:53 * wrtlprnft thinks Luke-Jr is thinking about money too much $.$
21:53 * Luke-Jr thinks $ is left of %
21:53 * wrtlprnft thinks % is right of $
21:55 <Luke-Jr> um wtf
21:55 <Luke-Jr> I'm not in the armagetronad group on the shell server...
21:56 * Lucifer_arma is starting another t2 build, heh heh
21:56 * Lucifer_arma forgot to hit the distcc flag
21:57 * wrtlprnft is going to bed
21:57 * wrtlprnft #night
21:57 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:57 <wrtlprnft> #night
21:57 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
21:57 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: but... :/
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> night
21:57 <Luke-Jr> anyone here in the armagetronad group on the shell srv?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, any estimate? I have shool tomorrow
21:57 <wrtlprnft> what server?
21:57 <Luke-Jr> shell.sf.net
21:58 <wrtlprnft> -bash-2.05b$ groups
21:58 <wrtlprnft> users armagetronad
21:58 <Luke-Jr> ok
21:58 <Luke-Jr> go figure
21:58 <wrtlprnft> what do you want me to do
21:58 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:58 <Luke-Jr> cp /home/users/l/lu/luke-jr/complete-to-4c.svndump.bz2 /home/groups/a/ar/armagetronad/initialsvn4c.bz2 -v
22:00 <Luke-Jr> -bash-2.05b$ groups
22:00 <Luke-Jr> users moonix vb4linux hybridsphere actor kye odc moo3d ipf gtk2qt p2pcc tasogare moo gakusei
22:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:00 <Luke-Jr> maybe I just maxed out =p
22:00 <wrtlprnft> done
22:00 <Luke-Jr> thx
22:01 <wrtlprnft> in progress it says
22:01 <wrtlprnft> yw
22:01 <Luke-Jr> yea
22:01 <wrtlprnft> woo that server even has zsh :)
22:01 <wrtlprnft> in contrast to yours :P
22:02 <Luke-Jr> zsh? =p
22:02 <Luke-Jr> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/
22:02 <Luke-Jr> real progress report ;)
22:02 <wrtlprnft> zsh = shell
22:02 <wrtlprnft> zsh = shell that wrtlprnft uses
22:03 <Luke-Jr> 4614 revs total
22:03 <wrtlprnft> that means we get anonymous svn access that is in total sync with dev access?
22:03 <Luke-Jr> not sure
22:03 <Luke-Jr> I think so
22:03 <Luke-Jr> but CVS is that way now too if so
22:04 <wrtlprnft> omg
22:04 <Luke-Jr> we're 15 months away
22:04 <Luke-Jr> omg?
22:04 <wrtlprnft> try typing df on that server
22:04 <Luke-Jr> rofl
22:04 <Luke-Jr> I'd hate to be a b* group =p
22:04 <wrtlprnft> lots of partitions
22:05 <Luke-Jr> partitions? no
22:05 <Luke-Jr> NFS
22:05 <wrtlprnft> yeah, whatever
22:05 <Luke-Jr> they're all diff servers
22:05 <wrtlprnft> mountpoints
22:07 <Luke-Jr> I'm going to miss WebSvn :/
22:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:08 <Luke-Jr> http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/listing.php?repname=AA&path=%2F&rev=0&sc=0
22:09 <wrtlprnft> the sf thingy looks better on first glance ;)
22:09 <wrtlprnft> rss feeds you can get from that CIA thing
22:10 <Luke-Jr> yeah, I hated WebSvn when I first installed it
22:10 <Luke-Jr> but its UI has some nice aspects
22:10 <Luke-Jr> didn't even notice it had RSS
22:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you around?
22:11 <wrtlprnft> well, there's a coloumn on the right ;)
22:11 <Luke-Jr> hehe, it says XML tho not RSS
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, sorta, what's up?
22:11 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@205.201.196.162] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
22:11 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: uh, look at the coloumn heading...
22:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: will need you to install CIA, I think
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> "Dad, it's freezing in our rooms."
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> "Ok, thanks for telling me"
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> ? my server's uhhhh, kind of in limbo right now
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> is this a permanent installation you need?
22:12 <Luke-Jr> ...
22:12 <wrtlprnft> what about http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/?
22:13 <Luke-Jr> http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn.php?group_id=110997
22:13 <Luke-Jr> at the bottom, select ciabot_svn
22:13 <Luke-Jr> and click Add
22:13 <wrtlprnft> yay
22:13 <Luke-Jr> then tell me the fields, I'll give the values
22:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: at the bottom of what?
22:14 <Luke-Jr> http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn.php?group_id=110997
22:14 <wrtlprnft> or are you talking to Lucifer_arma ?
22:14 <Luke-Jr> yes
22:14 * Lucifer_arma has no idea what's going on
22:14 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Svn import is done, just need CIA installed before anyone commits
22:15 <wrtlprnft> everyone needs that?
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> no parameters
22:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: there's no params? :(
22:15 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the server needs it
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, so I just clicked 'finish add"
22:16 <Luke-Jr> let's hope it uses the same project name then >.>
22:16 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: got something to commit?
22:16 <wrtlprnft> no, not really
22:16 <wrtlprnft> the better part of my self just wants to get rid of the excuse why I didn't do any code changes
22:17 <wrtlprnft> "if i do anything i'll just have trouble porting it into the svn repo"
22:17 <Luke-Jr> <.<
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> just add a static variable to some file and commit it, then remove it and commit *that*
22:18 <Luke-Jr> svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
22:19 * Lucifer_arma is working on carlinux right now, will soon be writing his t2 article
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> (which means all my CPU time is currently occupied, sorry)
22:21 <wrtlprnft> yay committed!
22:22 <Luke-Jr> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad
22:22 <wrtlprnft> yay, yay, yay!
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #praise Luke-Jr
22:22 * armabot gives Luke-Jr the Medal of Not Sucking
22:23 <Luke-Jr> O.o
22:23 <wrtlprnft> and now good night, finally ;)
22:23 <Luke-Jr> wait!
22:23 <Luke-Jr> if you don't want windoze trash...
22:23 <Luke-Jr> cd trunk/winlibs
22:23 <Luke-Jr> svn switch https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/.emptydir
22:23 <wrtlprnft> uh, i never got that
22:23 <wrtlprnft> i did
22:23 <Luke-Jr> o
22:24 <wrtlprnft> svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad armagetronad
22:24 <wrtlprnft> as posted on the wiki
22:24 <Luke-Jr> heh
22:24 <Luke-Jr> you didn't get build etc then
22:24 <wrtlprnft> build?
22:24 <wrtlprnft> aaaah
22:24 <wrtlprnft> i can't build that thing!
22:24 <Luke-Jr> ...
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> can't build what thing?
22:25 <wrtlprnft> i thought build was just for releases
22:25 <Luke-Jr> it is, mainly
22:25 <wrtlprnft> bootstrap.sh is missing
22:25 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
22:25 <Luke-Jr> shouldn't be
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh
22:25 <wrtlprnft> nvm
22:25 <wrtlprnft> i was in the wrong dir
22:25 <Luke-Jr> I have it
22:25 <Luke-Jr> lol
22:25 * Lucifer_arma takes wrtlprnft's crack pipe from him. Enough for you!
22:25 * wrtlprnft should get some sleep
22:25 <Luke-Jr> hehe
22:25 * Luke-Jr ponders how to keep wrtlprnft up more
22:26 <wrtlprnft> quickly add some error that prevents me from compiling arma?
22:26 * Lucifer_arma mumbles about font resource dtd
22:26 <wrtlprnft> that won't keep me awake
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> anybody here have a dreamcast?
22:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: are we anywhere near htat?
22:27 <wrtlprnft> in fact, this will get me to bed real fast
22:27 * wrtlprnft dodges upcoming work
22:27 * Luke-Jr thinks we should use a proprietary XML font format to avoid binary data
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: afaik, yes. We can put one together. I wouldn't suggest it's the final version, though. But it wouldn't hurt to sling code.
22:27 * wrtlprnft leaves that discussion to Luke-Jr and Lucifer_arma
22:27 <Luke-Jr> FTGL easily extended to support pre-converted XML fonts? ;)
22:28 * Lucifer_arma is about to step out anyway and let his build take over his computer
22:28 <Luke-Jr> builds can be evil sometimes
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, this one isn't as big as the last one, so it probably will only take a couple of hours
22:28 <wrtlprnft> so, uh, an XML font format would be ~10 times the size
22:28 * Lucifer_arma is starting work proper on his car box
22:28 <wrtlprnft> unless you just embed the binary data as it is
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but you know how much that shit compresses with bz2 :)
22:29 <wrtlprnft> maybe we should make an xml image format?
22:29 <wrtlprnft> <image>
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> bz2 on ascii files is "Honey, I shrunk the kids!"
22:29 <wrtlprnft> <row>
22:29 <wrtlprnft> <pixel red="255" green="0" blue="42" />
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> <pixel r= g= b= a= /> ?
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> need an alpha channel
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> then you need Luke's pseudo-looping thingee he was trying to lay on us
22:30 <wrtlprnft> <pixel red="123" green="42" blue="0" alpha="128" />
22:30 <wrtlprnft> </row>
22:30 <wrtlprnft> <!-- ... -->
22:30 <wrtlprnft> </image>
22:30 <wrtlprnft> !!!
22:30 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: even if it's a vector format?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> arma runs! WOOT!
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> if you want ascii, why not use pbm?
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> er, or one of the X11 formats?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ttf IS a vector font format
22:31 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: it's not XML
22:31 <Luke-Jr> XML vector formats don't need to be horrible
22:31 <Luke-Jr> in fact, maybe there already is one
22:31 <Luke-Jr> like Svg font or such
22:31 * Lucifer_arma notes that fontforge uses an xml format for its own format, the ttf is an export operation
22:31 * wrtlprnft goes to bed now. good night
22:31 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: that might be an option
22:31 <wrtlprnft> and TTF is the format most fonts are in
22:32 <wrtlprnft> so, it is the easiest for our users
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't matter terribly to me, our font's already fontforge. EXCEPT:
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> we need to support ttf for those 3rd party extenders
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> they *need* ttf :)
22:32 <Luke-Jr> tho 'sfd' appears to be non-XML
22:32 <Luke-Jr> right... hm
22:32 * wrtlprnft won't do any code for that. someone else fool with it
22:32 * Lucifer_arma knows only what the website says, he didn't open the sfd file himself
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> but since we need to support ttf for the other guys, we may as well just use it.
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> unless you really want your own format, then knock yourself out. Just make sure we have a tool to build it :)
22:34 * Lucifer_arma is away: smoking
22:38 <Luke-Jr> ok, so we'd need a TTF->SVG Font and FTGL SVG Font loader
22:42 <Luke-Jr> http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/ttf2svg.html
22:45 * Lucifer_arma sighs.
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> my son's fish is definitely dead, he's laying on his side :(
22:45 * Lucifer_arma is back.
22:46 * Lucifer_arma wants to hit something
22:59 <Luke-Jr> the fish probably won't mind
23:02 <Luke-Jr> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50471#50471
23:19 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I didn't want to play against ai's
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> :(
23:19 <Luke-Jr> :/
23:19 -!- shadowarts [n=shadowar@adsl-68-79-98-90.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #armagetron
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> losing ttf support isn't a benefit, it's a drawback
23:20 <shadowarts> hi
23:20 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: only if we need TTF support
23:20 <Luke-Jr> shadowarts: hi :)
23:21 <shadowarts> Luke-Jr, looks like a pretty neat game :D
23:22 <Luke-Jr> shadowarts: we *just* migrated to Subversion
23:22 <shadowarts> yes subversion is quite nice
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> man, I want my media player to play Me and Julio down by the Schoolyard like 10 times every time it plays it
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> I just had a cool fight with Pez, and I gotta say the timing of that song's perfect for a fight
23:25 <shadowarts> how long has this game been around?
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> 5, 6, 7 years?
23:25 <shadowarts> so quite a while now :D
23:25 <Luke-Jr> yes
23:26 <Luke-Jr> it wasn't any good till I joined a few months ago tho
23:26 <Luke-Jr> =p j/k
23:32 <shadowarts> use SDL or anything in it?
23:35 <Luke-Jr> SDL, yes
23:35 <Luke-Jr> SDL+OpenGL
23:36 <shadowarts> cool
Log from 2006-05-29:
--- Day changed Mon May 29 2006
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> #armaservers
00:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: Couldn't get RSS feed.
00:21 <Luke-Jr> O.o
00:21 <Luke-Jr> #armaservers
00:33 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
01:27 -!- flea [n=flea@user-0c8hpi2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:30 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:30 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873C04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:30 <z-man> #morning
01:30 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune: Most legends have their basis in facts. || -- Kirk, "And The Children Shall Lead", stardate 5029.5
01:30 <z-man> waailt, who is z-man-home now?
01:30 <z-man> oh, me
01:31 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873C04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:31 <z-man> GJ on the conversion, Luke-Jr.
01:35 <guru3> good morning
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> morning
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> what program should i use to rip a cd?
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> according to my menu, kaudiocreator Hmm...
01:36 <guru3> like audio cd?
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I've got it now
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> kaudiocreator seems to only start from a terminal !?
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> #armaservers
01:40 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Norm's Place (8 players) || CVS Test Server: Fortress (7 players) || ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's Arena {100MBit} (5 players) || ~"XzL.Accel Clan Server (4 players) || [armagetronad.de] sylvs tavern (2 players) || War spaet gestern... (acceleration, limited views) (0 players) || TAg.servegame.com (0 players) || zSrv Armagetron Server (0 players) || Crazy Tronners Sumo (0 (1 more message)
01:41 * Lucifer_arma doesn't rip many cd's since he doesn't buy new cds anymore
01:53 <n54> morning all :)
01:59 <guru3> i start working for my mom today :(
02:11 <n54> and it's bad?
02:11 * n54 wouldn't want to work for his mom (although I help out) ^^
02:11 <guru3> she wants me to work like 9-5 sort of hours :/
02:12 <n54> doing what? :)
02:12 <guru3> random computer related stuff it seems
02:12 <guru3> currently i've got two tasks
02:12 <guru3> a) write idiot's instructions to installing & using teamspeak
02:12 <guru3> b) write a specialized piece of online scehduling software
02:12 * n54 thinks that sounds cool
02:13 <guru3> i've not found a good way to store dates yet
02:13 <guru3> or really dates & times
02:13 <n54> if you can teach your mom then trust me you can teach anyone ^^ (teaching family is the most difficult task)
02:14 <guru3> hmm well
02:14 <guru3> it's not exactly that
02:14 <n54> hmm I don't know about programming in relation to storing dates specifically but I like to do YYYYMMDDHHSS
02:15 <guru3> yeah but because of certain features my mom wants
02:15 <guru3> that won't work so well
02:15 <n54> like?
02:15 <guru3> dunno if i'm allowed to say ><
02:15 <n54> like which weekday it is?
02:15 <n54> or week number?
02:15 <guru3> today's monday
02:16 <n54> yup
02:17 <n54> one could add WeekNumberWeekDay at the end of the one I wrote and then there shouldn't be much more one could wish for :)
02:17 <guru3> never mind ><
02:17 <n54> some calculation will be neccessary anyways for leap years, holiday calculation etc. :)
02:17 <n54> np :)
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> store unix timestamps
02:18 <guru3> ok last i'm gonna talk about stuff i have to do here unless i need help
02:18 <n54> ?
02:19 <guru3> not to be mean but i don't need the advice yet ><
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, crashed arma
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> <guru3> i've not found a good way to store dates yet
02:26 <guru3> didn't mean i was asking for a bunch of people to vounteer
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02:29 <Lucifer_arma> If I were Dave Mustaine, I'd be ashamed of Cryptic Writings
03:05 <Luke-Jr> PHP doesn't have a date type?
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't
03:22 <Luke-Jr> hm
03:23 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: BTW, in stage 4 (completed prior to SF), acme's trunk was moved into the pygame branch
03:23 <Luke-Jr> so you're good to go on importing the PyQt into a trunk
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> you were supposed to delete it or leave it alone
03:25 <Luke-Jr> oh?
03:25 <Luke-Jr> from within acme-pyqt's top-level directory: svn import https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/tools/acme/trunk
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> there is supposed to be one and only one acme
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> ack, you didn't listen to me before, why should I think you'll listen to me now? I guess I'll just clean it up, since you obviously wanted to stick me with this crap anyway
03:29 <Luke-Jr> last I checked, the discussion ended with more or less "if i don't have to do anything special, I don't care too much"
03:29 <Luke-Jr> what's wrong with just leaving it alone?
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I wanted you to do, just leave it alonge
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> *alone
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> I seem to recall saying "no" to having a pygame and a pyqt directory
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> it ws either "leave it out entirely, or move it in exactly as it is"
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> NEVER was it "change it however the fuck you want"
03:31 <Luke-Jr> so you want it moved back to trunk?
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, it's getting renamed, so I'm just going to delete it from acme
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> I take back the nice thing I said about you earlier, you're still just as fucking dense as ever
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> scroll up, I'm not repeating myself
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03:33 <Luke-Jr> note that's no "a pygame and a pyqt directory"
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: BTW, in stage 4 (completed prior to SF), acme's trunk was moved into the pygame branch
03:34 <Luke-Jr> quite a different matter
03:34 * Lucifer_arma has better things to do than split hairs with Luke-Jr
03:34 <z-man> what's up, guys? Should I care?
03:34 <Luke-Jr> it's a historical branch, not an ongoing development trunk
03:34 <Luke-Jr> z-man: Lucifer is whining about irrelevant things
03:35 * Lucifer_arma is irritated that he was more or less completely ignored on the acme thing
03:35 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you said you didn't care so long as the PyQt version could be imported and used as if pygame never existed
03:35 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: you can just remove the thing from the repository now.
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> take it how you want, I'm about ready to just delete the thing off my hard drive and forget I ever tried to share it or any of that
03:36 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: yes, you basically said you don't care as long as you can just do a new clean import. Even I read it as that.
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> maybe host my own svn repo for it, heh
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> ? ok, fine.
03:37 * Lucifer_arma left with the understanding it would either be deleted or left alone for me to deal with
03:38 <z-man> It was left alone for you to deal with.
03:38 <z-man> You can deal with it now. Just "svn delete" it.
03:38 <Luke-Jr> both, in a sense
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> <Lucifer_arma> <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: BTW, in stage 4 (completed prior to SF), acme's trunk was moved into the pygame branch <--- we disagree what "left alone" means, apparently
03:38 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: you're not the one anal about history here :)
03:38 <Luke-Jr> yuo can deal with it, but it's not in your way if you don't want to
03:39 <Luke-Jr> so in a sense it's both deleted (from trunk/relevance) and you can still deal with it
03:39 <Luke-Jr> so you can do whatever, or just pretend it doesn't exist
03:40 <Luke-Jr> if you choose not to deal with it, it's not in the way
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> ack, who needs it. pyqt3 is broken on my machine for no apparent reason, and I've still got a ways to get into pyqt4, I'm not likely to even be touching it anytime soon, which means acme's probably dead anyway
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> why fight about it?
03:40 * Lucifer_arma shuts his mouth and does something else
03:41 * Luke-Jr would prefer it get into Svn at least for history, but it's not important
03:44 <z-man> But if it can be deleted after the import, I'll trust you to leave some
03:44 <z-man> easy instructions. I've been in the svn manual before, and it'll take
03:44 <z-man> some time to get into it. I can do all the same stuff with svn that I
03:44 <z-man> can with cvs, which I've demonstrated isn't much, and anything more
03:44 <z-man> complicated than "svn commit" will be awhile before I get to it."
03:44 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: just for reference, your last acme-related post, IIRC, was: "
03:44 <z-man> eek, the above.
03:44 <z-man> from http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47545#47545
03:45 <z-man> the instructions follow now: do "svn delete acme" in the appropriate folder, then "svn commit".
03:45 <z-man> Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
03:45 * z-man goes off to so something productive, too.
03:46 <Luke-Jr> z-man: I think it was an IRC discussion in which he said that he didn't care so long as he could do a clean import
03:50 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: if you're just going to trash the PyQt3 version and start anew with PyQt4, I'd appreciate it if you did 'svn import https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/tools/acme/branches/pyqt3' (which can then be ignored or even deleted if you insist) just for historical purposes. Sorry for pissing you off about the pygame version, I thought (apparently incorrectly) we were in agreement over the plan with that.
03:50 <Luke-Jr> g'night
03:51 * Lucifer_arma isn't importing any pyqt version until it works a little bit
03:52 * Lucifer_arma might just be bleeding anger from the fish, too
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04:31 <spidey> meh
04:32 <z-man> bouncy?
04:34 <spidey> me?
04:35 <z-man> yes
04:35 <spidey> trying to configure mepis,a 800xwhatever view isn't doable :p
04:35 * spidey is used to 1280x1024
04:36 <spidey> mmm,lets try this
04:36 <spidey> brb
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04:56 <spidey> i give up,it isn't accepting my horizontal and vertical inputs :(
05:35 * z-man wonders whether armabot could take over kteatimer's function
05:35 <z-man> #tea 3 min
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> 2 things, z-man :)
05:35 <n54> don't think there is any plugin like that yet
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> armabot is a supybot, you could see if there's a plugin for it
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> supybot is written in python, you could probably easily write a plugin for it. The api looks pretty clear, and I'll be happy to install it for you.
05:36 <z-man> probablty too much work. And silly.
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50611#50611 <--- trying to keep ideas collected
05:37 <z-man> Take a simple appliance like a clock...
05:37 * Lucifer_arma is considering looking over kteatimer, actually.
05:37 * Lucifer_arma currently times his tea with a cigarrette
05:38 <z-man> It actually only serves to remind me I have a tea going. 20 minute cold black tea isn't really a pleasure to drink :)
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> sure it is, with sugar
05:39 * Lucifer_arma drinks iced tea all day long
05:39 <z-man> never liked that
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> 2 quarts, 3/4 cup sugar, 3 tea bags.
05:39 * Lucifer_arma notes it's a traditional southern drink in america :)
05:39 <z-man> never liked tea, actually. I think I'm switching back to coffee.
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> you know, if we actually talked about how we spend money (heh), people might be more inclined to donate
05:40 * n54 doesn't like tea or coffe ^^
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> because then they'd know we're doing Good Things with it
05:40 <z-man> Right.
05:40 * Lucifer_arma is starting a thread on that subject
05:40 <n54> open accounting :)
05:41 * z-man wonders whether people would donate to upgrade my bandwidth
05:41 <n54> might
05:42 <z-man> Of course, to run test servers on, not to download porn
05:43 <n54> ^^
05:43 <z-man> grrr, libneon can't be installed non-root, it seems. stupid libtool.
05:43 <z-man> (libneon is part of svn)
05:44 * n54 avoids saying something ...oh no! paradox ^-
05:45 <z-man> no paradox, you just failed :)
05:45 <n54> so harsh! ;_;
05:45 <n54> :)
05:50 * Lucifer_arma thinks a test server on a good coloc site would be a worthy expense
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50621#50621
05:54 <n54> hmm there's a real online bank in britain, I can dig up the name if you want me to (paypal is not a bank and has loads of complaints etc.), one can keep paypal for donations (as well as that bank) but transfer any "holdings" to the real bank where your money actually is safe
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's why I set a $1000 upper limit on holdings kept in paypal with the condition that it be distributed. My sister was an unfortunate victim of a paypal crack while back. :(
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> and since paypal's not a bank (for some weird reason), they're not required to insure the money they hold.
05:55 <z-man> Yeah, paypal is known to freeze and invalidate accounts at times.
05:55 <n54> $1000 just seems like a lot to loose or get frozen for six months to me
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> I have a savings account with a real online bank.
05:55 * Lucifer_arma is forgetting their name momentarily
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's an america bank
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> ING Direct, that's it
05:55 * n54 searches for that bank I'm thinking of as it was better than just about anything
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> they had killer interest rates when we signed up, but they've dropped, now my account with my credit union does better
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> ING's still better than most regular banks, though. It's hard to compete with a credit union. :)
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> we should use a Swiss bank :)
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> incorporate in some caribbean island, use a swiss bank account. Then have yearly developer meetings at our headquarters in the caribbean...
05:57 * n54 is talking about a bank that accepts internet donations etc. just like paypal, not a "normal" internet-enabled personal bank account
05:58 <n54> just can't find that bookmark... (searching)
05:58 <z-man> Yeah, they managed the Nazi money, they can manage the Evil Triumvirate's money as well.
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> amazon has a program, anyway
05:58 * z-man apologizes to the Swiss for this stupid joke
05:59 * Lucifer_arma smiles
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> there was this really hot swiss girl in my history class last semester
06:04 <n54> meh I can't find it :S
06:04 * n54 thinks he's heard about that swiss girl before ^^
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> heh, probably. She was one of those rare girls that's so beautiful you remember her for awhile
06:19 * Lucifer_arma hopes to encounter her again, actually. Her voice + accent are perfect for the announcer and Lucifer_arma would like to record her for that.
06:20 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise I might stick you with my daughter's voice. :)
06:20 * Lucifer_arma is having a hard time believing that with all these europeans around here, somebody can't find a girl with a good voice and rough accent to be our announcer
06:21 * Lucifer_arma thinks its more likely people don't want an announcer, or they have different ideas on what they want for said announcer.
06:22 <n54> don't have any recording equipment
06:22 * Lucifer_arma has writer's block
06:22 <Lucifer_arma> do you have a microphone for your computer?
06:23 <n54> nothing I would use for recording anything (or use at all actually)
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm....
06:23 * Lucifer_arma thinks a cheapo computer microphone is good enough for the job
06:23 * Lucifer_arma thinks a quiet room is more important
06:23 <n54> but wait what are we ralking about, I'm a hermit goddammit ^^
06:23 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, you don't know any girls. :)
06:24 <n54> girls? people!
06:24 <n54> actually I know too many *deletes humanity*
06:24 * z-man hates people
06:24 <Lucifer_arma> I'll take a man's voice. What's your voice like? Is it a high-pitched whiny geek voice like mine?
06:24 <n54> <-- former drill sargeant
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the best announcer would be z-man--provided he has a good alto, preferably baritone, and a rough accent
06:25 <z-man> I mumble.
06:25 <n54> that sounds so.... heterosexual
06:25 <Lucifer_arma> but if his spoken english is as good as his written english, he'll need a really killer voice. But being z-man is a prety good recommendation...
06:26 <z-man> And of course, you'd only get a "zree" from me :)
06:26 * n54 wants stephen hawkins to do the intro ..wonder if we can make an appointment ;)
06:26 <Lucifer_arma> no one or two? ;)
06:26 <n54> hehe z-man :)
06:26 <z-man> well, those I could do, probably
06:26 * Lucifer_arma wonders if we could hit up Frank Oz for it
06:26 <z-man> as miss piggy?
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> as yoda :)
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, he'd probably count 1 2 3 instead
06:27 <n54> you forgot 0 :)
06:27 * Lucifer_arma sighs. Dr. Teeth would be good.
06:27 <Lucifer_arma> right now 0 is a whistle
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> pretty annoying, actually.
06:28 <n54> oh yeah
06:28 <n54> *forgot*
06:28 <z-man> Dr. Teeth? Is he the one torturing tomatoes in the US?
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> <--- put the annoying whistle there
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> torturing tomatoes? I don't recall Dr. Teeth being sadistic
06:28 <n54> who the hell is dr. teeth?
06:28 <Lucifer_arma> the lead singer for Electric Mayhem, of course
06:29 <n54> uh
06:29 <z-man> We have a "Dr. Best" demonstrating the shabby quality of toothbrushes by squishing tomatoes with them
06:29 <n54> hehe
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> is he a muppet?
06:29 <z-man> No, a model dressed up as a dentist
06:29 <z-man> male model
06:29 <n54> dang
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh. Dr. Teeth is a muppet
06:29 <Lucifer_arma> voiced by Jim Henson :(
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> retired as a character when Him Henson died, now he only makes cameos
06:30 <z-man> Must have missed that episode
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> ? He's in all three movies
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> *5 all five, but only does a cameo in the last two
06:30 <Lucifer_arma> green muppet, big teeth, one gold tooth, he's in the band...
06:31 <z-man> Ah, gold tooth. I remember him.
06:31 <n54> yeah I sort of remember that one
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> he sings "You can't take no for an answer" in the movie about the play
06:32 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, maybe we should figure out what else the announcer actually says. I think we're only going to get one real shot at an announcer, then we have to live with it or risk having more than one voice
06:33 * Lucifer_arma wonders if tank or phillippe could get a swede to do it, and if it would sound like the swedish chef
06:34 * Lucifer_arma still has writer's block
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> starting an article is so hard, maybe I should start in the middle and write the beginning at the end
06:35 <z-man> Woooo! svn is finally working here!
06:35 <z-man> yes, starting in the middle is usually a good idea
06:37 <Lucifer_arma> I should have written it yesterday, I had most of it mapped in my head yesterday, but no. I had to insist on trying to build a custom target first.
06:38 <Lucifer_arma> what's the command to checkout svn? :)
06:38 <z-man> svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
06:39 <z-man> reminds me, I've got to phase out of here and seriously rate those tests.
06:40 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
06:40 <z-man-work> (not really away)
06:40 <n54> not really working either? ;)
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> deque::end() points to 1 after the last element, right?
06:45 <Lucifer_arma> yep, looks like someone clobbered my change that fixed the playlist bug, so it's not a new bug, it's an old fixed bug :(
06:48 <n54> ?
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> playlist bug: segfault when you try to go to the song after the last song on the list, or the song before the first song. Failed bounds checking.
06:49 <n54> what program are you talking about?
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> I fixed it months ago, and then it reappeared. I thought it was something different, but looking at the code now tells me it's the same old one.
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> armagetronad
06:49 <n54> oh it has a playlist... :O :D
06:50 * Lucifer_arma wants to push for a 0.3 release soon to start off the development series, but can't do so in good conscience with a known crash bug like that
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> you lose the cycle motor sound, though, and I didn't get to restarting the openAL branch during the break. Maybe during the semester, no promises, but I'd like to get to it asap.
06:52 <z-man-work> It's a dev release, some regressions are tolerable. The motor sound isn't that important.
06:52 <z-man-work> (crashes are)
06:52 <Lucifer_arma> testing the fix right now
06:52 <Lucifer_arma> or soon, anyway
06:52 <Lucifer_arma> building :)
06:53 <Lucifer_arma> also, I want to keep the sdl_mixer stuff around, but have no intention of adding in the cycle motor. But I want a configure option to build with it instead of the openAL stuff when it's available
06:53 <Lucifer_arma> so people that want music but might have trouble satisfying the openAL dependency can have it
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06:58 <Lucifer_arma> how do I get distcc to work with arma?
07:00 <z-man-work> You just set CXX="distcc g++"
07:01 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, CXX is the one I wanted
07:02 <Lucifer_arma> I set CC and it distributed .c files :)
07:02 <Lucifer_arma> I should add this to my bash profile, shouldn't I?
07:03 <z-man-work> If you want it to be permanent, yes.
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07:10 <Lucifer_arma> committed, can we release 0.3?
07:10 <Lucifer_arma> :)
07:11 <z-man-work> Heh, we need to adapt the release process to SVN first
07:12 <z-man-work> and decide whether we should do a tiny stabilization branch for possible further critical bugs that only happen on other peoples' systems
07:12 * Lucifer_arma posted to start the discussion :)
07:13 <guru3> can we just not care about bugs on people's systems? :)
07:13 <Lucifer_arma> since it's a development series, I'd suggest we *not* do a stabilization branch
07:13 <z-man-work> Well, you two can make it an admin decision then :)
07:13 <Lucifer_arma> just spend a couple of days on those bugs and hold off the release, or release with those bugs and state them :)
07:13 <z-man-work> I'd say we should do one, but don't care enough to figh.
07:13 <wrtlprnft> #morning
07:13 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune: Old programmers never die, they just branch to a new address.
07:14 <Lucifer_arma> :) I'm saying "do the stabilization work directly in the trunk", not ignore it
07:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: yes, we *need* TTF support. That's it. Everything else is pointless since TTF is a pseudo- standard and most users can deal with it
07:14 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'm on crack on it, you've been our release engineer anyway and know faarrrr more about it then I do
07:15 <Lucifer_arma> I see you slept well, wrtlprnft
07:15 <z-man-work> You've got to tell everyone not to do weird stuff while we're stabilizing, that's the only problem I see.
07:15 <wrtlprnft> yeah
07:15 <z-man-work> Holding back dangerous commits shouldn't be too much to ask.
07:16 <z-man-work> Branching has the simple advantage that people who don't care about the release don't have to change their workflow.
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: can you cure my writer's block? I've been fucking off hoping it would cure it
07:17 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes std::deque<>::end() points beyond the last element
07:17 <Lucifer_arma> for a long release process where stabilization is required in the release, I see how stablizing would seriously impact someone's workflow :)
07:17 * wrtlprnft has no idea how
07:17 <Lucifer_arma> I guess it depends on how long it takes us to do the kind of stabilization you're talking about If we're talking a couple of weeks, then a branch is probably what we should do
07:17 <z-man-work> Point is, you don't know in advance how long stabilizing will take.
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> but if it's only a couple of days....
07:18 <z-man-work> Ugly bugs have the tendency to jump out exactly on the day of the planned final release :)
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh. We could say "hold off dangerous commits, let's try to knock out these bugs". Then a couple of days later, "Well, let's branch to stabilzie this one, it's taking longer than expected"
07:18 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: right, that's a possibility. gets my vote.
07:19 <Lucifer_arma> and if we find ourselves doing that too much, then we just make it standing operating procedure in the future and forget I ever wanted to not do it :)
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: thanks on the deque thing. I just committed a fix that works, hopefully it doesn't leave out a song in the doing.
07:23 <wrtlprnft> haha
07:23 * Lucifer_arma hopes he's not laughing because he tested the fix and it doesn't work
07:25 <wrtlprnft> I'm having my speakers turned off at all times unless i really need sound
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> * Known issue: you have to start the player yourself if you want music ingame, and apparently you have to have a custom playlist because the bundled music isn't working for me.
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> so you could be getting that random crash and not having any idea why it's crashing? ;)
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> I hate drinking tea leaves :(
07:27 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well, it only crashes on exit for me
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think that's a playlist bug. I could be wrong, but I don't get that crash
07:28 <z-man-work> Have you tried switching audio drivers?
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> I get occasional crashed when I leave a server that I dont' know why they're happening that could be playlist-related
07:28 <wrtlprnft> i just mean that i don't have a random crash bug, so i'm happy
07:28 <z-man-work> For me, arts has a tendency to deadlock with something on exit.
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> there's a reason people call it "farts"
07:28 * Lucifer_arma disables arts first thing on a new installation
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> it shouldn't even be necessary anymore, alsa can handle multiple sound sources now
07:29 <z-man-work> Is there a USE=-arts?
07:29 <wrtlprnft> yes there is
07:35 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: when you said "BUG: spongebob just went through my wall", was that referring to the previous round?
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> happened right before that, iirc. Literally right before it. I lost the round because I stopped to make the report
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> it was after breaking, I think. We were both headed towards the wall, then I cut him off and he should've died, but went through my wall
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> looked like a lag hiccup and I expected to be dead, but then I wasn't and he took the zone
07:39 <Lucifer_arma> I think he was using the name bobsponge :)
07:40 <z-man-work> Hmm, sounds a bit like the last phasing incident
08:03 <z-man-work> Gaa, no, no grinding was involved. I hope this is an old bug so I have an excuse not to fix it for 0.2.8.2.
08:18 <z-man-work> Heh, lesson: if you either want to kill A or B, you shouldn't do if (..) kill A; else if (...) kill B;
08:18 <z-man-work> You just had very good aim :) Old bug, won't fix. Phew.
08:19 <wrtlprnft> if (..) kill A; else if (...) kill B; else { kill A; kil B }
08:19 <wrtlprnft> :P
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> you should do if(player = Lucifer) kill TheOtherGuy
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> do it early and often :)
08:31 <wrtlprnft> player = Lucifer? We'll end up having all players named Lucifer in no time!
08:31 <wrtlprnft> try player == Lucifer ;)
08:31 <n54> :)
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> pseudocode doesn't need to be correct c++ syntax :)
08:59 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
08:59 <Self_Destructo> good morning :)
09:00 <n54> morning :)
09:01 <Self_Destructo> ROFL spidey!
09:01 <Self_Destructo> i got a message from the leader of the ALEIN alliacne and they are planning to cook your goose, lol
09:17 <deja_vu> hey SD :)
09:27 <Self_Destructo> deja_vu: hey there
09:27 <Self_Destructo> 2.10507 deja_vu
09:27 <deja_vu> o.o
09:27 <Self_Destructo> that's what you are on the ladder on my server :)
09:28 <deja_vu> oh xD
10:22 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-047-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
10:23 <flea> yoz
10:23 <flea> sd whassup
10:25 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: there is no cashflow.
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11:07 <philippeqc> hi
11:07 <wrtlprnft> hi philippeqc
11:08 <philippeqc> yesterday z-man pointed to me that collections couldnt hold auto_ptr, but that boost::shared_ptr could be used instead.
11:08 <philippeqc> I'm not sure if he considered adding another dependency for the project.
11:09 <philippeqc> http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/smart_ptr.htm
11:15 <philippeqc> I wouldn't have any prob including one more dependency, seeing how this one is packed tight with high-octane material.
11:16 <philippeqc> (that and allows me to continue with my coding)
11:16 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
11:18 <wrtlprnft> well, that wouldn't be a dependency i think
11:18 <z-man-work> philippeqc: another way would be to copy over the parts of boost we need into our source
11:18 <wrtlprnft> that would go into thirdparty/
11:18 <z-man-work> but seeing most of it is template stuff, we wouldn't get a RUNTIME dependency either way.
11:19 <z-man-work> (which is what most people worry about, especially for C++ libraries)
11:19 <wrtlprnft> most of it? all of it!
11:19 <z-man-work> Lucifer had to compile boost for his car computer thing, suggesting it also has regular library parts
11:19 <philippeqc> I just browsed throught the titles of the different items included there, and I wouldn't mind having it whole as a thirdparty.
11:21 <z-man-work> I'd prefer it as a regular, compile time, external dependency for now.
11:21 <z-man-work> We can move it into thirdparty if we include the non-template stuff and want to avoid the C++ linking hell.
11:22 <wrtlprnft> uh, what's the ebuild for that?
11:22 <z-man-work> boost?
11:22 <wrtlprnft> o, nvm
11:22 * philippeqc should be more carefull of the terms he uses. Please consider that I dont know bleep about the effect and impacts of every type of linkage and you wont be that far from truth, but consider my enthousiam into having access to the full thing.
11:23 <z-man-work> you have access to the whole thing :)
11:24 <philippeqc> ok, but wont it be a pain for every developers to having it on their machine?
11:24 <z-man-work> More pain than X, OpenGL, FTGL, SDL, g++? No.
11:24 <philippeqc> mandriva has it as a package, so I'd guess its quite accepted in most distros.
11:24 <z-man-work> It's a regular library.
11:25 <philippeqc> ok
11:25 * z-man-work may be a bit pissed at having it to install manually at work, but that is his problem.
11:25 <philippeqc> then what would be the impact beside having a bigger exec due to use of even more templates?
11:26 <z-man-work> Having it as a compile time dependency. Everyone building from source needs to have it installed.
11:28 <philippeqc> here as it was installed in the right directories, I was able to compile without options to g++. But I assume the makefile/configure would need to be updated to point to it explicitly.
11:30 -!- shadowarts [n=shadowar@adsl-68-79-98-90.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has left #armagetron ["Leaving"]
11:30 <z-man-work> I'll see whether nondefault directories are a problem here. Everything goes to ~/usr/ for me :)
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> isn't there a runtime for boost?
11:33 <z-man-work> There is, but some parts don't use it.
11:33 * Lucifer_arma also thought boost was only for python bindings anyway
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: what are you wanting to use boost for right now? I think I missed that...
11:34 <z-man-work> shared_ptr, currently
11:34 <philippeqc> shared_ptr
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, I see. YOu want to put a fancy pointer class into a collection. don't we have a fancy pointer class already?
11:34 <philippeqc> in my case, I'd be able to have collections of smart pointers. auto_ptr cannot be used inside of a collection.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> right, but we have a smart pointer class. would it suit you?
11:35 * Lucifer_arma tries to remember what it's called
11:35 <z-man-work> Our smart pointers don't work with arbitrary objects.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> only gameobjects?
11:35 <z-man-work> tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR.....
11:35 <z-man-work> don't ask.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> ok, nvm then
11:35 <z-man-work> it works with all tReferencables
11:35 <z-man-work> which includes all nNetObjects
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> I SAID NEVERMIND THEN!!!! :)
11:36 <z-man-work> so all game objects, yes.
11:36 <z-man-work> The don't ask was just for the tJUST_CONTROLLED_PTR name :)
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ok. ;)
11:36 <z-man-work> It's... historic.
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> what else is in boost that you want it for, philippeqc ?
11:36 <philippeqc> at the moment, only this.
11:37 <z-man-work> But it's full of useful crap.
11:37 <z-man-work> We can probably annoy Luke buy using it, too.
11:37 <z-man-work> *by using*
11:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
11:40 <ghableska> hi
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> as much fun as it would be, I'm not sure that "annoying luke" should be a design goal :)
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> it does look to have a lot of useful crap
11:40 <wrtlprnft> annoy luke because he hates all c++ template magic
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking if we creep it in now, sooner or later we'll have it as a runtime library, so we should either marry it now or philippeqc should find another solution to his problem
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> *runtime dependency
11:41 <wrtlprnft> what else is using boost?
11:41 <z-man-work> We only get it as a runtime dependency if we explicitly link with it.
11:41 <z-man-work> it can't happen by accident.
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm concerned about dependencies, but boost has a path to python. I'd hate to throw away other scripting languages, but boost has a path to python...
11:41 <wrtlprnft> it wasn't installed on my system and i have a lot of crap on here
11:42 <z-man-work> It's a horrible path, they say.
11:42 <Lucifer_arma> true, but for quite a few of our linux users, having it as a compile-time dependency is synonymous with runtime dependency
11:42 <wrtlprnft> so it can't be very common :(
11:42 <Lucifer_arma> it's not common enough to be considered a system library, but it's common enough that we can expect packages to be readily available
11:42 <z-man-work> Probably everyone just picks the bits he's using out of it and adds them as third party sources.
11:43 <z-man-work> We could so that automagically on "make dist".
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> that's kinda what it looks like they intended for you to do, boost is a collection of libraries (looking at the website right now)
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> they got an svn repo? :)
11:44 <z-man-work> Thinking about using externals?
11:44 <wrtlprnft> if it's small enough I'd say include it in thirdparty. or leave it to the project admins
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> no, they're in cvs
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, Luke-Jr and I actually agreed on something, which was to use externals to link our thirdparty libraries
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> I've got something, it'll be more work :)
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> include it in thirdparty, but have the configure option to use the system-installed one if available
11:45 <z-man-work> That isn't too much extra work.
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> and just take the bits we use.
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11:46 <Lucifer_arma> how about checking for a system-installed boost and if it's not there, then use the one included? Not sure what use that is
11:46 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: you're not on this "five twenty minute naps distributed over the day" sleep mode?
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> ok, yeah, not really, but I need to go to bed. You want I should cut out? ;)
11:47 <z-man-work> Just wondering :)
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> (that's actualy waht I was about to do, mark myself away and close the lid)
11:48 * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
11:55 <philippeqc> excuse my lack of understanding about the problems of both type of dependency (compile vs runtime), but what the impacts. I guess for compile time it means a bigger executable, and for runtime, that the library must be on the target system, and for user of pre-compiled binaries, it would need to be part of the installer.
11:57 <wrtlprnft> what parts are a library anyways? Everything that's not inline would mean a pretty serious performance loss...
11:57 <z-man-work> You don't really have a choice with boost::shared_ptr, it's a template. It has to be a compile time dependency without run time dependency, blowing up the executable.
11:58 <wrtlprnft> but that's the same with std::auto_ptr
11:58 <philippeqc> but so is auto_ptr or any template that I happen to create in the code (ok, none at all, but I had a few in a previous version)
11:58 <z-man-work> Right.
11:59 <wrtlprnft> and it shouldn't be that serious anyways
11:59 <z-man-work> From the point of view of someone installing a binary build, there is no difference between these cases.
11:59 <z-man-work> Right again.
11:59 <wrtlprnft> just a few functions, no complex algorythms and stuff :)
12:00 <wrtlprnft> actually std::auto_ptr blows up your code everywhere you use it since it has a lot of inline functions
12:01 <wrtlprnft> but most of those functions are smaller than the machine code you would need to call them if they weren't inline
12:01 <philippeqc> yes. but I'm trying to figure out what would be the cost of having "access" to it all (vs a scaled down version)
12:02 <wrtlprnft> if it's all templates and they aren't used the blowup would be 0
12:03 <wrtlprnft> if it isn't an external library the linker should throw out everything that isn't used, right?
12:03 <philippeqc> anyone who want to compile it would need to install it on their system, and its seems its rarely installed based on our sampling of 3 developers that didnt have it.
12:03 <z-man-work> Right about the installation cost. We should include the bits we're using at least in the tarballs.
12:04 <wrtlprnft> 3? I thought we were 4
12:04 <z-man-work> (this thing takes ages to compile)
12:04 <wrtlprnft> arma or boost?
12:04 <z-man-work> boost
12:06 <wrtlprnft> ! boost is 11MB
12:06 <wrtlprnft> don't include i guess
12:07 <wrtlprnft> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/boost-1.33.1 -bcp -bjam -debug -doc -pyste -static -threads -threadsonly 11,237 kB
12:07 <philippeqc> in mandriva, the library package (of *.so.1) is 1.6 megs. The devel package (*.hpp *.ipp) is 35 megs (I'd say unpacked)
12:07 <wrtlprnft> that should be 11MB source packed
12:08 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
12:08 <philippeqc> yep
12:08 <philippeqc> cya
12:08 <z-man-work> bye
12:08 <z-man-work> Maybe we can add the bits we're actually using as "fake" externals?
12:09 <z-man-work> Add make rules that fetch the version we want from their CVS archive?
12:09 <philippeqc> ok, so for people interested to compile arma and on dial-up, it might feel quite a heavy download.
12:10 <philippeqc> yes, that could be quite convenient, also if coupled with the "dont use external if it is already on the host system"
12:11 <z-man-work> Using a pre-installed version has the disadvantage that we don't know what version it will be; it may be incompatible. They warn about that in the FAQ.
12:12 <philippeqc> o ok
12:14 <philippeqc> so we end up with a "on demand" system, where we collect from cvs the relevant bits as thirdparty. Am I correct?
12:14 <z-man-work> I think we should try that, yes.
12:56 <philippeqc> Humm, my prototype is working ;)
12:57 <philippeqc> http://pastebin.com/745185
12:58 <philippeqc> Well, I guess I should now re-grow it to have all the capacity wrtlprnft's original version had.
13:13 <SuPeRTaRD> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6880888700625496919
13:46 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
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13:49 <wrtl_web_broken> philippeqc: 178: std::set<BasePtr> ColNode::GetCol(void) const { return m_col
13:50 <wrtl_web_broken> you want to change that to std::set<BasePtr> const &ColNode::GetCol(void) const { return m_col
13:50 <wrtl_web_broken> almost certainly, your current function will copy the set twice
13:53 <philippeqc> would changing the footpring of all GetCol to return std::set<BasePtr> const & fix this?
13:54 <spidey> heh sd
13:54 <spidey> they can try ;)
13:55 <philippeqc> uncomment line 495, and in line 497-505 you get the proper data
13:56 <philippeqc> the data is there only once
13:58 <wrtl_web_broken> ph: yes, it should
13:59 <wrtl_web_broken> man, i love chatting like this. *really* broken
14:00 <philippeqc> o
14:02 <wrtl_web_broken> i can't test anything from here :(
14:02 <wrtl_web_broken> i can't test anything from here :(
14:05 <philippeqc> well, it doesnt return any doubled data.
14:05 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:06 <philippeqc> I'll be leaving now, I'm beaten. But I've noted the change and will insert it tomorrow.
14:08 <philippeqc> cya
14:08 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has left #armagetron ["Leaving"]
14:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
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14:44 <spidey> Self_Destructo ?
14:52 <joda_bot> wrtl_web_broken: What's broken with the web chat ?
14:53 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
14:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: The web chat is broken ?
14:56 -!- joda_web [n=543d2f4d@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:57 <joda_bot> test
14:59 -!- joda_web [n=543d2f4d@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
15:08 <joda_bot> #notes
15:08 <armabot> joda_bot: I currently have notes waiting for Luke-Jr, madmax, and phil.
15:15 <Luke-Jr> that's nice
15:15 <Luke-Jr> give me mine
15:16 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179011.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:18 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA139.versanet.de] has quit [Success]
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16:20 <z-man> joda_bot: What version of Code::Blocks are you using? Yours seems to support dependencies, mine doesn't.
16:27 <joda_bot> z-man: a nightly
16:27 <z-man> We should syncronize them :)
16:27 <joda_bot> z-man: CB_20060428_rev2395_win32_wx263.7z
16:27 <z-man> My version reverted all your changes
16:27 <z-man> eeek
16:28 <joda_bot> I had some major crashes on W2k with the rcs
16:28 <joda_bot> the nightly was way more stable
16:28 <z-man> Ok, I'm declaring you the master of the version of code::blocks to use on the trunk.
16:29 <z-man> I'll sync with yours.
16:29 <z-man> But keep away from 0.2.8.2 with it, please :)
16:29 <joda_bot> Never intended to
16:30 <joda_bot> Just added it to head as the code is in dev there too
16:30 <joda_bot> So I thought it won't hurt that much to use a nightly / dependency enabled version
16:31 <z-man> yes, that's probably right. Now I also understand your commit message :)
16:32 <z-man> The CB version seemed very cryptic.
16:32 <z-man> Umm, I already deleted the .depend files and added them to the ignore file list. Is that a problem for your build?
16:32 <z-man> My v1.0 regererates them every time anyway.
16:34 <joda_bot> ah, did they release a v1.0 ?
16:36 <z-man> I think it's one of the RCs,actually.
16:36 <z-man> The title bar says v1.0.
16:36 <guru3> nn ya'll
16:36 <joda_bot> z-man: ok, I guess most later versions will probably be compatible but I'm not 100% sure
16:37 <joda_bot> hi guru3
16:37 <joda_bot> guru3: Should we add a chat with dev support on the website ?
16:37 <joda_bot> I guess it would really make it easier for ppl to report bugs without registering etc.
16:37 <z-man> later, yes, but mine seems older
16:39 <joda_bot> z-man: was a bleeding edge nightly at that time
16:39 <joda_bot> about 3-4 weeks ago
16:39 <z-man> yes, I grabbed it.
16:39 <z-man> How do you install it?
16:40 <z-man> I unpacked it, but the exe complains about missing libraries.
16:40 <z-man> Do I have some base files to install?
16:40 <joda_bot> I had to download a separate dll
16:40 <joda_bot> because it uses a newer wx263 dll or something
16:41 <joda_bot> wxmsw26u_gcc_cb_wx2.6.3.7z
16:41 <joda_bot> +CB_20060428_rev2395_win32_wx263.7z
16:41 <joda_bot> Is that still the latest build ?
16:43 <z-man> found the docs on it, I think I'll manage it on my own. But not today, it's bedtime.
16:43 <joda_bot> gn8 ;)
16:44 <z-man> night
16:44 <z-man> #night, armabot
17:00 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: the web chat isn't broken
17:00 <wrtlprnft> but i tunnel it through a proxy php script to bypass the school filter
17:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:01 <wrtlprnft> that breaks it, i can't see channel messages, just write them
17:01 <wrtlprnft> and it refuses to log me out...
17:02 <wrtlprnft> wrtl_web_broken: die!
17:02 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
17:03 <joda_bot> ;)
17:04 <joda_bot> /quit might work then ?
17:04 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-047-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["on the run"]
17:04 <wrtlprnft> probably
17:04 <wrtlprnft> i just closed the browser tab
17:04 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-047-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
17:05 <joda_bot> hehe gaim respects /quit commands
17:05 <wrtlprnft> and the PHP script on my server keeps the connection open, so the script on your server doesn't have a way to know I'm not there anymore
17:05 <joda_bot> only for the irc connection though
17:05 <wrtlprnft> 17:04 <wrtlprnft> probably
17:05 <wrtlprnft> 17:04 <wrtlprnft> i just closed the browser tab
17:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:06 <joda_bot> I can't come up with any way how to fix this, except by fixing your proxy ;)
17:06 <joda_bot> or manual work for me ... but I'm not tank :-P
17:06 <wrtlprnft> that proxy script is just one big hack ;)
17:06 <joda_bot> as most firewall by passes are ;)
17:07 <wrtlprnft> so no, not your fault. But it is broken
17:07 <joda_bot> huh ?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> wrtl_web_broken is broken
17:07 <joda_bot> You want it to timeout if there is no data transmitted but the connection is established ?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> no, I don't care
17:07 <wrtlprnft> i can kill my web server once i get home and it logs me out
17:08 <joda_bot> uhm, it's already gone ;)
17:08 <joda_bot> just a few seconds after you asked it to go
17:08 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know
17:08 <joda_bot> I did not do anything about it
17:08 <wrtlprnft> that's when i restarted apache
17:08 <joda_bot> oh
17:08 <wrtlprnft> my webserver that hosts the proxy
17:09 <joda_bot> So I'll investigate if there is another timeout value I can lower to make idle connection break faster
17:09 <joda_bot> perhaps 1h of idleness ?
17:09 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't matter i think...
17:09 <joda_bot> but it's probably difficult to tell if the client still reads the data
17:09 <wrtlprnft> from your server's point of view, the client IS still reading the data
17:09 <joda_bot> as the webserver will not pass the tcp acks a long where php or anything else can detect them
17:10 <joda_bot> hm
17:10 <joda_bot> I might add a talk idle timeout
17:10 <joda_bot> e.g. don't say something for 15min and you leave
17:11 <wrtlprnft> if that would be true for real clients as well everyone would get kicked twice a day
17:11 <joda_bot> ich gehe ins Bett ... good night .. .ach sch?ner Sprachsalat
17:12 <joda_bot> no I'm just thinking about doing that for the web clients
17:12 <joda_bot> otherwise the channel might die in proxy based chat bots ;)
17:12 <wrtlprnft> night joda_bot
17:12 <joda_bot> would be interesting if a real proxy caches the data :-P
17:13 <wrtlprnft> my script doesn't
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17:18 <wrtlprnft> take that Luke-Jr!
17:21 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:22 <wrtlprnft> now we have two people wanting a server for free?!
17:22 * wrtlprnft remembers christi
17:22 <wrtlprnft> well, and their site, apart from the fact that he can't spell url, is pretty well done as well.
17:23 <wrtlprnft> Unable to connect to database on 'localhost' with user 'xxxx'
17:23 <wrtlprnft> Dear user, our technicians are aware of this issue! Please bear with us as we fix this bug!
17:24 <wrtlprnft> who would call his db user xxxx?
--- Log closed Mon May 29 18:27:47 2006
--- Log opened Mon May 29 19:18:35 2006
19:18 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
19:18 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
19:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
19:18 <wrtlprnft> finally
19:18 * wrtlprnft kicks his provider
19:34 * spidey kicks wrtlprnft
19:34 <wrtlprnft> no violence!
19:35 <spidey> you started it
19:35 <wrtlprnft> it's no fair anyways
19:35 <wrtlprnft> 8 legs vs 2
19:35 <wrtlprnft> you're my provider?
19:35 <spidey> ol
19:35 <spidey> lol
19:35 <spidey> and it's only unfair because you're human
19:35 <wrtlprnft> :P
19:35 <spidey> ;D
19:35 <spidey> i broke my desk kinfa
19:36 <spidey> kinda
19:36 <spidey> i made a keyboard holder
19:36 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:36 <spidey> well,i got tired of switching board spots everytime i had to type on one of the computers
19:37 <spidey> now one's in the droor
19:37 <spidey> 'er
--- Log opened Mon May 29 19:43:30 2006
19:43 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
19:43 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
19:43 <spidey> ?
19:43 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
19:43 <spidey> wb i think?
19:43 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:43 <spidey> http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6293/untitled8cd1.jpg <<wrtl look at the download manager
19:44 <wrtlprnft_> yes wb
19:44 <wrtlprnft_> sec, just crashed with an empty battery
19:44 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
19:44 <Vanhayes> he is using the name Vangoe and is sending out kick votes and lots of bots and changing each bots IP
19:45 <wrtlprnft> #last --nolimit
19:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:44:59] <Vanhayes> he is using the name Vangoe and is sending out kick votes and lots of bots and changing each bots IP, [19:44:39] <wrtlprnft_> sec, just crashed with an empty battery, [19:44:28] <wrtlprnft_> yes wb, [19:43:56] <spidey> http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6293/untitled8cd1.jpg <<wrtl look at the download manager, [19:43:39] <spidey> wb i think?, [19:43:34] <spidey> (50 more messages)
19:45 <wrtlprnft> #more
19:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: ?, [19:43:28] <spidey> wrtl look at that pic, [19:42:29] <Vanhayes> god I hate maccattack, [19:42:05] <spidey> http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6293/untitled8cd1.jpg, [19:38:07] <spidey> 'er, [19:38:01] <spidey> now one's in the droor, [19:36:51] <spidey> well,i got tired of switching board spots everytime i had to type on one of the computers, [19:36:25] <wrtlprnft> o_O, [19:36:20] (49 more messages)
19:47 * wrtlprnft would never download a distro with more than one CD image (unless it's a life DVD)
19:47 <wrtlprnft> the programs on it are outdated before you even finish the download
19:47 <spidey> it's not what i'm downloading
19:47 <spidey> it's the speed i'm downloadin them at
19:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, well
19:48 <wrtlprnft> if you really download a lot... I'd have no use for it :P
19:48 <spidey> i borrowed a friends uncapped moterola
19:48 <spidey> that was yesterday
19:49 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:49 <spidey> found a 1 gigbit server to download off of
19:49 <spidey> to see what speed i'd get
19:49 <wrtlprnft> how to waste other people's traffic :(
19:49 <spidey> lol
19:50 <spidey> i should have found a torrent with a shitload of peers
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yeah, do something useful and seed for a few minutes :P
19:50 <spidey> lol
20:01 <spidey> sd?
20:01 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/fast.png
20:01 <wrtlprnft> that's fast :P
20:02 <spidey> lan transfer? :p
20:02 <wrtlprnft> nope
20:02 <wrtlprnft> transfer from 127.0.0.1 :P
20:02 <spidey> lol!
20:02 <wrtlprnft> would be faster with two different HDs i guess
20:03 <wrtlprnft> i should have enabled gzip compression, that would have increased it even more
20:03 <wrtlprnft> (that file was a 1GB- chunk of /dev/zero)
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20:25 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
20:34 <Vanhayes> leaving
20:34 <Vanhayes> #leaving
20:35 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188459.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:11 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
21:31 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screen.png
21:31 <wrtlprnft> maybe this screen session is getting a bit too big/busy...
21:40 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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21:49 <Self_Destructo> spidey: you there?
21:59 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:07 <spidey> yea
22:07 <spidey> you gone?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:26 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:32 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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23:22 * Lucifer_arma is back.
23:22 * Lucifer_arma wishes he'd never mentioned the cd thing now, heh
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> hehe, a song that says "Lucifer inflicting the pain!" is a really great arma song for me :)
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: Climbin' the Walls finally came in :)
23:32 <GodTodd> cool :)
23:32 <GodTodd> i got all three of mine before leaving for NM
23:32 <GodTodd> :D
23:33 <Lucifer_arma> cool. :) So are you in NM right now, or back already?
23:34 <GodTodd> yeah i'm in the land of entrapment....i think we're going back on sat
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh. Ok. :)
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> Yeah, I was playing this game the other night listening to Hell's Gates, and would you know that I was wiping out the other team hearing the guy saying "Lucifer inflicting the pain!"
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> it ws awesome! ;)
23:35 <GodTodd> cool :)
23:35 * Lucifer_arma thinks music dramatically improves his game
23:35 <GodTodd> i know it dramatically improves my studying ;)
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> haha. haven't tried that yet, but it's gotta be better than kids yelling
23:36 <GodTodd> heh true that
23:37 <GodTodd> hrmm....you know....i will probably never be even remotely decent at it....but i really wanna learn to play guitar :/
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> do it, man
23:41 <GodTodd> i'll hafta check out some pawn shops or something....see if i can get a halfway decent guitar and amp....
23:41 <GodTodd> any particular ones to stay away from?
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, pawn shop guitars :)
23:42 <GodTodd> haha
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> check out guitar center instead, they usually have a good deal on a guitar + amp combo, usually that comes with a fender squier
23:43 <GodTodd> i don't particularly wanna break the bank on a first guitar tho
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> cheap guitar, but they usually let you switch it out if you want
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> there are several things worth considering. One is that general guitar buying wisdom is worthless nd usually results in having a guitar you hate
23:43 <GodTodd> i think there's one of those just down the road from home....
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you have the extra money to throw down on what seems like a silly guitar, it's worth it to do it
23:44 <GodTodd> right...i basically figure a lot of it is hands on feel
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> you remember that red strat I used to have?
23:44 <GodTodd> yep
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> I traded that in a guitar shop in wisconsin for a purple flying V shaped thing
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> which I in turn traded with a friend here in Austin for the guitar I have now
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> it's the one pictured on my website
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> man, that red strat really felt good to play, on my fingers anyway. But I hated that thing.
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> it was bought with common guitar buying wisdom
23:45 <GodTodd> heh
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> get something that works, that's electrically sound and all
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> that's the problem with pawn shop guitars, they usually have wiring problems or bad pickups
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> the best way to get something that works is to buy brand new with a warranty :)
23:47 <GodTodd> true
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> and don't get in the snobby guitar player trap that says a $150 is worthless. Just don't do that. You don't need a fucking Les Paul or Fender Strat American Standard
23:48 <GodTodd> oh...that i know
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> you only need that crap if you're touring anyway. If you're just playing at home, a $150 guitar that you like is worth a lot more to you over the lifetime of the guitar than anything else
23:49 <GodTodd> yep
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> so yeah, typical me advice, throw out what everyone else says and do what you want :)
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> but I'd steer clear of any fixer-uppers unless there's some sort of other connection. I've spent years and some money fixing up my guitar, and it's a wonderful guitar--now.
23:49 <GodTodd> i figured that's what you'd say ;)
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> my wife got me a bass + amp combo for my birthday, but she took out the fender bass and stuck in an Ibanez. I don't know what it cost, it was a birthday present
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> but she said she got a good deal, and it's an awesome bass, and that's all there is to it :)
23:51 <GodTodd> exactly
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> you pay extra for the substitution, but you still get a discount for the combo
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> the amp is pretty shitty, really. It sounds good, but it's not very loud. But it does sound really good. :)
23:51 <GodTodd> hmmm....they have a bc rich pack for 200$
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> go check it out. :) My guitar's an old-school bc rich, before Jackson resurrected the line.
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't really liked the new bc riches, my palm hits the pickups, but that's just me. I'm already pretty set in my ways, you're not. ;)
23:53 <GodTodd> wonder if i can talk my way into a 200$ father's day present ;)
23:53 <GodTodd> heh
23:53 <GodTodd> yep....i'm malleable
23:53 <GodTodd> heh
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> I played a washburn one time, looked just like one of Nuno Bettencourt's guitars back in the day, and it was a really sweet playing guitar
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> odd, because most of the washburn's I've played have sucked ass
23:54 <GodTodd> bronze series warlock guitar...that mean anything to you?
23:54 <GodTodd> haha
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> low-dollar warlock?
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> the warlocks are the ones that you need the coffin-shaped cases to hold :)
23:55 <GodTodd> heh....it comes with a gig bag
23:55 <GodTodd> 12 watt amp
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> warlock was bc rich's old flagship guitar, you see it in all the old hair band videos. If they're not playing a strat, they're probably playing a warlock.
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> I did like the warlock basses a lot, but my wife said they were too expensive compared to this ibanez she got me
23:56 <GodTodd> i might go check it out when i'm back in plano
23:56 <GodTodd> this pack says its 1/2 off
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. One thing's for sure, Alamogordo is a bad place to shop for a guitar :)
23:56 <GodTodd> so that means it's normally 400$
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> that might be worth buying just to stick it up on ebay in a few months
23:56 <GodTodd> true
23:57 <GodTodd> sell it for 300$ ;)
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's another thing. These days the risk isn't so bad of getting a bad buy, it's easy to resell stuff and recoup most of your investment
23:57 <GodTodd> true...i kinda like the looks at least of this pack....hafta sweet talk the wife...heh
23:58 <GodTodd> of course she has been saying the old 'you need to do more for yourself'.....this would be for me ;)
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> I can only recommend guitar playing now. Sure, it's an addiction and all that, but it's something tht only makes your life better
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> you know, after I finally managed to beat out all the unrealistic crap that was put there by snobby guitar players and other crazy people
23:59 <GodTodd> it just seems like it would be a decent stress release....even if and when i suck
Log from 2006-05-30:
--- Day changed Tue May 30 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> it gets better. :) As you get better and you can better articulate your thoughts with it, it just gets better.
00:00 <GodTodd> and who knows....maybe it'll be like i was born with an axe in my hands ;) haha
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> :)
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> the only real problem I have with it these days is the feeling I get when I play and I'm out of practice
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> you know, when real life takes me away from my guitar for an extended period (like it has recently)
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> then when I pick it back up, I have to recover a certain amount of skill. I think in my head that I can do this stuff, but I physically can't without building back up to it
00:02 <GodTodd> true....but it's easier to pick it up again than it is to pick it up the first time, i'd imagine
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> and that difference in thought compared to what I can do is quite frustrating
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, a lot better. I think of it like leveling in D&D or something. You lose all your XPs that you earned on the way to the next level, but you don't lose the level.
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> but you do have to start over for reaching the next level, and it's harder to reach the next level with time.
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> The big difficulty in the beginning is having the discipline to work on it, then it feels like you're learning faster, but you're not, I think you're actually learning slower if anything
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> but the pace seems to pick up, and it's just things coming together.
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> of course, living alone, being single and broke helps a lot when you're starting, and you're none of those things. :)
00:04 * Lucifer_arma used to play for 3+ hours a day when he was single, broke, and lived alone
00:08 <GodTodd> yeah...but i think i could work in some practice time
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> the main thiing is to not stress out about your progress. I dont' think there's a huge difference between practicing an hour a day compared to 3 hours a day,
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> other than building up stamina
00:09 <GodTodd> true
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> but there is quite a difference between 15 minutes a day and an hour a day
00:09 <GodTodd> what's the best way to learn? I mean i know it's essentially a personal thing...but there has to be a recommended starting point
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> still, a whole hour can be hard to come by. 2 hours every 2-3 days would be pretty useful, and then maybe 10 minutes of exercises to avoid losing the physical buildup
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmm. To be honest, you might be perfectly happy starting where I did, with the tab book for And Justice For All
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> I consider that a textbook on how to play heavy metal, and most of the songs are slow enough that you can reasonably achieve them in a few months
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> in my first year of playing, I could play half that album
00:10 <GodTodd> yeah...i was thinking tabs....that's how i started when i had my acoustic
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> that was when I was still in High School. :)
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> check out OLGA. www.olga.net iirc
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> lots of good stuff there, most of it's pretty good quality too
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, really. You want the music you play to match up with what you like to listen to, that's most important.
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's harder to keep discipline and learn when you're learning something that has nothing to do with what you hear.
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> if I'd had to take lessons, where they teach blues, I probably wouldn't still play. I was a metalhead, still am a metalhead, and always will be. I play guitar so I can play metal, why start anwhere but there?
00:13 <GodTodd> yep...that's what i plan on :)
00:14 <GodTodd> i couldn't be anything but a metalhead honestly
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> :) where to start is another topic that common guitar playing wisdom inadequately covers
00:14 <GodTodd> truly
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> especially when all the really great guitar players you hear about all started in the same place: the music they listened to
00:14 <GodTodd> looks like olga would be as good a place as any :)
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> lots of good metal. The tab for Come to the Sabbath in particular is really good. :) And surprisingly easy, if you get the timing pretty well.
00:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: ?
00:58 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:14 <n54> *yawn* morning all
01:47 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:53 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:01 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> ack, glancing is weird
02:24 <spidey> lol
02:24 <spidey> i switched distros
02:24 <spidey> :/
02:24 <spidey> Linux version 2.6.15-1-586tsc (Debian 2.6.15-3.ww1) (ww@mepis.org) (gcc version 4.0.3 20051201 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.2-5)) #2 PREEMPT Wed Feb 1 17:40:51 EST 2006
02:24 <spidey> i like mepis better than ubuntu
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> z-man you beating around right now?
02:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:37 <spidey> lol
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> guess not
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: you beating around right now?
02:42 * n54 beats Lucifer around :P
02:45 <spidey> lol
02:45 <spidey> n54 come in cvs
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going back in, but I must warn you, I'm not understanding glance right now. It's changed in the trunk...
02:47 <spidey> heh]
02:47 <spidey> bkue needs help
02:47 <n54> sorry spidey can't right now, perhaps later in the week ^^
02:48 <spidey> :(
03:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I hope you don't mind, I'm adding to and modifying the resource system wiki page
03:17 <spidey> he;s in tron
03:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: not deleting anything, though-- closest is rearranging to show Luci's opinion vs current vs Luke's opinion and such
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> depends on how much you want to massacre it :)
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> spec documents don't contain debate, though. you should take it to the forum thread and talk about it if what you want to add is contrary to what's there
03:23 <Luke-Jr> since we're going with only supporting XML for resources now, should we have a tResource vs tXmlResource?
03:27 <spidey> zomg
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> ? tXmlResource was made under the mistaken belief we'd have non-xml resources
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> but since it was pointed out to me that that's not the case, it just needs to be renamed to tResource, which is by consensus afaik
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, Luke-Jr, sorry for dogging on you over acme. I was wrong, you were right, don't expect me to say that much. :)
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> also, the interface provided by tResource doesn't change whether or not there's an xml file under it, that's part of the spec so that resources have a common interface for tResourceManager to use
03:36 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: ok, I was referring to the wiki page
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: if the wiki page still says "tXmlResource" anywhere, it's a bug. :) Should be replaced with tResource
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> what code changes need to be made are beyond my current knowledge. I don't know if tResource should have an instance of tXmlParser or if it should inherit it.
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft makes a good argument for having it as an instance instead. I'm not terribly worried aobut it, it doesn't really change how the system's supposed to work
03:59 <Luke-Jr> guru3: when is the domain up for renewal?
04:00 <guru3> shortly
04:00 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:00 <Luke-Jr> too shortly to do real-world tests on usage?
04:00 <guru3> a week or two
04:01 <Luke-Jr> ok, so how about I setup a everydns to resolve both A and AAAA on www. and we see if it impacts IPv6 usage?
04:01 <Luke-Jr> and you just point www. at everydns via NS
04:01 <guru3> can't do that
04:01 <Luke-Jr> why?
04:01 <guru3> i don't choose the ns
04:01 <Luke-Jr> eh? IIRC, you added a NS entry for authservers.
04:01 <guru3> no
04:02 <Luke-Jr> authservers.armagetronad.net. 60 IN NS ns01.dashjr.org.
04:02 <guru3> i wonder how that happened
04:03 <guru3> authservers.armagetronad.net does not exist, try again
04:03 <guru3> i think that only exists in luke land
04:03 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:03 <Luke-Jr> dig NS authservers.armagetronad.net
04:03 <guru3> dig NS?
04:03 <Luke-Jr> NS record
04:04 <guru3> it doesn't have a record record
04:04 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:07 <Luke-Jr> no-ip doesn't list it?
04:07 <guru3> i don't think i ever created it
04:10 <Luke-Jr> hm
04:10 <Luke-Jr> okay, you're right
04:10 <Luke-Jr> it only exists in my world
04:11 * Luke-Jr read logs
04:11 * Luke-Jr then realized his DNS server was intercepting the request
04:11 <Luke-Jr> yet another reason to drop no-ip :/
04:12 <Luke-Jr> we can't even workaround its problems
04:12 <guru3> i don't call it a problem
04:13 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:13 <Luke-Jr> its sub-standard functionality, then
04:13 <Luke-Jr> I'd call it a problem, since NS is a key element to DNS
04:14 <guru3> we don't need to use every feature known to mak of dns
04:14 <guru3> mak = man
04:15 <Luke-Jr> without NS, you don't have a working DNS
04:15 <guru3> no-ip is the whole deal
04:15 <Luke-Jr> no-ip is simply expensive garbage, from the sound of it
04:15 <guru3> ok you've stated your opinion
04:16 <Luke-Jr> and the objective fact (that it lacks even standard functionality)
04:16 <Luke-Jr> (and is a rip-off in cost)
04:17 <guru3> it's not been a problem yet
04:19 <Luke-Jr> sure it has
04:19 <Luke-Jr> it just prevented us from even trialing IPv6 usage
04:19 <guru3> which no one will use anyway
04:19 <Luke-Jr> and it would make any kind of 4LD use impossible
04:19 <Luke-Jr> you can't know
04:19 <guru3> which we don't need
04:19 <Luke-Jr> don't right now, you mean
04:20 <guru3> we don't have to offer every service known to man
04:25 <Luke-Jr> actually, maybe we can do IPv6 trialing
04:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
04:25 <Luke-Jr> there, in just a little bit, www-aa.dashjr.org will do A/AAAA for www
04:25 <Luke-Jr> then you can just CNAME www to it and we'll have some real stats
04:25 <Luke-Jr> (but not too soon, or it will resolve to my server)
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05:05 * Lucifer_arma notes that performance is a big deal
05:06 * Luke-Jr notes performance is fine
05:15 <Luke-Jr> www-aa seems to be propagated everywhere now, BTW
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> I like how we say "we're not changing our minds" and Luke keeps at it
05:22 <Luke-Jr> I don't like idiotic decisions
05:23 <Luke-Jr> even if it did turn out to be trivial
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> so waste your time, then. That's a *smart* decision.
05:23 <Luke-Jr> I'm "wasting" my time because I don't think it will be as trivial as guru3 assumes
05:24 <spidey> lmao
05:24 <spidey> you two are funny :p
05:25 <Luke-Jr> note the low # of IPv6 hits is not only likely due to the different domain name, but also because that domain name is not published anywhere
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> I get so sick of this "we need all these bells and whistles". fact is, I'll be we're not even using half of what we've got in any service.
05:25 <Luke-Jr> I had to get it from my logs
05:25 <Luke-Jr> we would be using AAAA records if no-ip supported it, but we can't
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> I hear this crap from everywhere. GodTodd and I were tlaking about guitars. I'll bet LUke would object to buying a $150 guitar for someone who just plays at home,
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> insisting on the $1500 les paul or whatever
05:26 <spidey> lol
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> because the les paul comes with <this other stuff you don't need unless you're touring>
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> do you build your own cars, Luke-Jr ? Funny how every solution you've got involves us coding more.
05:27 <Luke-Jr> did you read what I just said? ...
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> or us doing <this much more work>
05:27 <Luke-Jr> we are limited by no-ip already, and would be using the features it lacks
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> where? where would we be using it?
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> for code that doesn't exist yet?
05:27 <Luke-Jr> AAAA records
05:27 <Luke-Jr> for people going to the website
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> for code that when it does exist has to be used by everybody else, somehow?
05:28 <Luke-Jr> code doesn't come into the picture
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> why do we need that stuff for the website? I haven't heard anybody complaining about how it is
05:28 <Luke-Jr> for IPv6 access
05:29 <Luke-Jr> most people who have IPv6 access also have IPv4 access at least indirectly
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> so of the 3 people in the world that have ipv6 access, 2 of them have ipv4 access at least indirectly?
05:30 <Luke-Jr> at least 2 of every 3 do
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> and how is our system broke, then? Sounds like there isn't really a problem.
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> More importantly, how much does it matter? No-ip is a DNS solutions provider, check their website. They have to offer this service sooner or later
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> and since it doesn't hurt us in the meantime, why bother worrying about it? We've got more important things to worry about.
05:31 <Luke-Jr> 250% cost
05:32 <Luke-Jr> and a year of limitations at a time
05:32 <Luke-Jr> when we could easily transfer the domain and solve it
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> whoopee. Do you realize how much of a difference there actually is between $10 and $35 on a yearly bill?
05:33 <Luke-Jr> 250% :)
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 35/12
05:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 35 / 12 = 2.91666667
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> $2.91 a month
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> that's not affordable?
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> and better uptime than pretty much anybody else.
05:34 <Luke-Jr> 3% of the $300 to 12%
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> moreover, you won't have someone domain squatting if you fail to renew your domain on time
05:35 <Luke-Jr> DNS doesn't need uptime on a single server
05:35 <Luke-Jr> everyone supports auto-renewal...
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> no-ip doesn't, and that's a good thing. Because it means they're not keeping your credit card number.
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> (actually, I think they are, but I don't remember right off the top of my head, either)
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> furthermore, no-ip supports Free Software both with code and with money.
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> they only use Free Software
05:36 <Luke-Jr> using it doesn't support it
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> <Lucifer_arma> furthermore, no-ip supports Free Software both with code and with money.
05:36 <Luke-Jr> I don't think I've seen no-ip's administrative interface as source code anywhere
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried asking them for it? They might give it to you...
05:37 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, guru3 asked them to support 3LD a while ago
05:37 <Luke-Jr> oh, the source
05:37 <Luke-Jr> haha, I'm tired x.x
05:38 <Luke-Jr> I doubt it
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, what they actually support with code and money is stuff like BIND (or whatever they use, I forget), postfix, and other stuff
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> you doubt it, but you don't know. Not that it matters, all the software they actually release is open soruce, afaik.
05:39 <Luke-Jr> their updater client is?
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> unless they changed the license recently, yeah. :)
05:39 <Luke-Jr> any way, we're a donation run project-- it's kinda redundant to spend donated funds on a for-profit company which donates *some* of that to other similar groups
05:40 <Luke-Jr> at least, not as a reason to spend 250% more
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> and what for-profit company did you have in mind?
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's just one reason among many
05:41 <Luke-Jr> the only advantage anyone's given to using no-ip other than that is that we're already using them
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> not that you've been paying attention or anything, otherwise you wouldn't have said something as idiotic as "Well, no-ip's lookups sure are fast, but I can do better, although they won't be as fast"
05:41 <Luke-Jr> I didn't
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I've just given a number of reasons for using them, and you've completely ignored them
05:41 * n54 doesn't mind if donated money is spent on essentials and even better; essentials from companies that are better than most like no-ip and freenode
05:42 <n54> not that I'm that familiar with no-ip - but I know freenode fairly well :)
05:42 <Luke-Jr> n54: at 250% more cost?
05:42 <n54> compared to what?
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> in the same post, you said both of these things:
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> MyDomain+me can do a much better level of service. I'm sure others would fare just as well.
05:42 <Luke-Jr> no-ip query times 68-71 ms
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> My primary DNS server is obviously going to be as slow as everything else I host,
05:43 <Luke-Jr> everydns query times 61-62 ms
05:43 <n54> Luke if you want me to understand your argument you've got to specify what you're comparing no-ip with to get 250%
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> no-ip is a good company, that's for sure
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> n54: it's his basket of stuff we dont' need :)
05:43 <Luke-Jr> primary DNS server is one of many, and can be omitted from the NS list
05:43 <Luke-Jr> n54: generally all domain registrars are around $10/yr
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> you can change that information in no-ip, actually, and host your own authoritative dns server
05:44 <Lucifer_arma> except for the ones that offer value-added services in connection to said domain registration
05:44 <n54> well I've already seen some hidden costs in this little bit of the discussion so far Luke and I'm not impressed with the argument that you can find cheaper money-wise -- money isn't everything and it's cheaper for a reason
05:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh. and turning numbers into percentages isn't impressive. :)
05:45 <Luke-Jr> n54: many alternatives are cheaper *and* better, that's the point
05:45 <z-man-work> Gee, boost is still compiling
05:46 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> how long's it been going?
05:46 <n54> there's an expression in norway that I'm sure there's an english equivalent of: don't save yourself poor (the english one goes something like save a dime to spend a dollar)
05:46 <Luke-Jr> n54: you're not making any sense, you know...
05:46 * z-man thinks the DNS discussion already wasted more time than worth it
05:46 <Luke-Jr> we're saving $25 or so and getting better services
05:46 * Lucifer_arma agrees but keeps letting himself get sucked into it, heh
05:47 <Luke-Jr> z-man: probably, I don't know why guru3 & Lucifer_arma insist on sticking with crappy service
05:47 * z-man doesn't know enough about the facettes of DNS and no-ip's services in particular
05:47 <z-man> and I don't intend to change that just to get sucked into this time-waster as well :)
05:48 * Luke-Jr knows no-ip's restrictions from discussions with guru3 trying to do stuff and being unable because of no-ip
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> here's something more important. How does glancing work in the trunk? anybody know?
05:48 <n54> I could offer cheaper irc than freenode, and anything and everything anyone wants enabled? Now would it be a good idea? absolutely not and figuring out the myriad reasons are left as an exercise done in private
05:48 <Luke-Jr> n54: horrible comparison
05:49 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: has wrtl merged meritons changes?
05:49 <n54> so is your 250% luke
05:49 <Luke-Jr> nonsense
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> I suspect so, it is changed since my last cvs update, which wsn't too long before the migration
05:50 <Luke-Jr> n54: think of it like you choosing to buy WinXP Home for $1000 instead of WinXP Pro for $25
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to figure out if I should view the behavior I've got as a bug or a misunderstanding on my part :)
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1000/25 * 100
05:50 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1,000 / 25) * 100 = 4,000
05:50 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I'll check it.
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> that's 4000%, Luke-Jr. Not the same thing at all.
05:51 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: same stuff, spending more for less
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not the same stuff. That's a downright shitty comparison.
05:52 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
05:52 -!- mode/#armagetron [+m] by guru3
05:52 <@guru3> now be quiet about the dns stuff
05:53 <@guru3> ok?
05:53 <@guru3> glad that's settled
05:54 -!- mode/#armagetron [-m] by guru3
05:54 <z-man> hehe, wd.
05:54 <Luke-Jr> n54: think of it like you choosing to buy WinXP Home for $350 instead of WinXP Pro for $100
05:54 <Luke-Jr> =p
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> I like how you don't know he's there until it says "guru3 is now God"
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> calc 2 starts in 4.5 hours
05:55 <@guru3> fun calc
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> 4 days a week for 11 weeks
05:55 <@guru3> ouchies
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> 10:35am->11:50am
05:55 <Luke-Jr> guru3: didn't you want to learn BIND anyway ;)
05:55 <@guru3> hell no
05:56 * Lucifer_arma reminds himself he was going to the store tonight
05:57 <Luke-Jr> Aug 18 20:25:57 <guru3> i should learn bind...
05:57 <@guru3> what year was that?
05:57 <Luke-Jr> 2005, I think
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> had to be last year
05:58 <@guru3> i was young and foolish then
05:58 <Luke-Jr> lol
05:58 <Luke-Jr> it's easy
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> now he's young and wise, apparently :)
05:58 * Lucifer_arma has toyed with the idea of setting up a local dns server, but now his ISP has become reliable again for DNS
05:59 * Luke-Jr calls guru3's mom to explain the whole domain matter <.<
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> that call will cost more than the difference in price
05:59 <@guru3> haha
05:59 <Luke-Jr> doubt it
06:00 * Lucifer_arma notes that VOIP calls to Europe aren't free
06:00 <Luke-Jr> even if it were a high per-minute cost, she'd probably be like "wtf who are you dont bug me" and hang up
06:00 * Luke-Jr notes that they're still 1.3 cents/min
06:00 <Luke-Jr> at least to most Europe
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2500/1.3
06:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,500 / 1.3 = 1,923.07692
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> So you can talk to her for 1,923 minutes
06:01 <Luke-Jr> #g 1923 / 60
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> that's your yearly budget for talking to guru3's mom
06:01 <Luke-Jr> #g 1923/60
06:01 <Luke-Jr> foo bot
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1923/60
06:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1,923 / 60 = 32.05
06:01 * Luke-Jr doesn't plan to spend over a day on the phone w/ guru3's mom
06:01 <@guru3> good
06:01 <Luke-Jr> that would probably freak guru3 out a bit much
06:01 <Luke-Jr> hehe
06:01 <@guru3> cause i'd kill ya if you did
06:01 <Luke-Jr> lol
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> nah, he'd post the mp3 so we could all hear her chewing Luke-Jr a new asshole ourselves
06:02 <@guru3> :/
06:02 <Luke-Jr> presuming she didn't agree
06:02 <Luke-Jr> not to mention that I'm probably the only one recording calls
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> he'd get the recording from the swedish police
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, it finished building the kernel already
06:03 <Luke-Jr> they record everything?
06:03 <Luke-Jr> kernel isn't a long compile
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> amazing how fast that goes when you don't keep killing it to play tron
06:05 * Lucifer_arma has heard some pretty nasty things about Swedish police, so it wouldn't surprise him if they recorded international calls.
06:05 <z-man> whoops, seems like my new FTGL detection broke the trunk
06:05 <Luke-Jr> stuff generally goes slower when it's being constantly killed
06:05 <n54> heh like what?
06:05 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: VoIP calls are probably not considered international ;)
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> it was an article you linked, n54, wasn't it? About immigration?
06:05 <n54> doubt it
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> immigration in scandinavian countries?
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah it was!
06:06 <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:06 <Luke-Jr> more likely that's you n54 =p
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's not in my url catcher, but it was quite awhile ago
06:06 <Luke-Jr> "Don't you know who I am?"
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I stumbled across it some other way
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
06:07 <Luke-Jr> "I'm the Juggernaut, b*%&#!"
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last n54 --nolimit
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last --from n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [06:06:04] <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> what?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last --from n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [06:06:04] <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:07 <Luke-Jr> ...
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> what does that say? can anybody tell me?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that joke's funnier in person
06:08 <Luke-Jr> oh, haha...
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab, smoking and some other stuff
06:13 <z-man> Great, pkg-config ftgl --cflags doesn't give the include path to the FTGL includes themselves
06:19 * Lucifer_arma hasn't been terribly impressed with pkg-config
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to be broke more often than not
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> man, there's some good mazing players on fortress right now
07:29 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Excess Flood]
07:29 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
--- Log opened Tue May 30 07:52:43 2006
07:52 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
07:52 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
07:52 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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07:53 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
08:14 <wrtlprnft> Yet Another Stupid Useless Discussion Started By Luke-Jr
08:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh. did you merge in meriton's camera stuff?
08:17 * Lucifer_arma is away: going to the store
08:24 * z-man wonders what "THE store" is
08:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: see my post
08:25 <wrtlprnft> i accidently committed it
08:26 <wrtlprnft> i had it in my checkout when i was doing some cockpit stuff, and i accidently committed the wrong files
08:27 <z-man> never mind, I'd say it should be in anyway
08:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but then I have to merge the changes that were there
08:27 <z-man> Right :) Your messup, your job.
08:27 * z-man always likes to push work to others.
08:27 <wrtlprnft> meriton used some branch version from march as a base and i just overwrote all changes since then
08:28 <wrtlprnft> ni, it's fine with me and in my interest
08:28 <wrtlprnft> i was using it all the time and getting annoyed by always manually replacing those files
08:28 <wrtlprnft> and worried since they might grow incompatible at some time
08:30 <z-man> Should I try to find out what SVN revision meriton's code was based on?
08:33 <wrtlprnft> how would that help? I can just diff the revision with my accidential committ and the version before
08:33 <wrtlprnft> Description:glancing code (branched on 20060320)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> which means I'd just have to search for the last change before that date :)
08:34 <z-man> That's what I just did :)
08:34 <z-man> You're in luck, all branches were in sync at that time.
08:34 <wrtlprnft> :)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> thanks
08:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll do it this afternoon, gotta go in 20 minutes
08:35 <z-man> The revision is 4264
08:35 <z-man> Revision <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad?rev=4264&view=rev"><strong>4264</strong></a> -
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=markup&rev=4264">view</a>)
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?rev=4264">download</a>)
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?annotate=4264">annotate</a>)
08:35 <z-man> - <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?r1=4264&view=log">[select for diffs]</a>
08:35 <z-man> <br>
08:35 <z-man> Modified
08:35 <z-man> <em>Sat Mar 25 23:13:26 2006 UTC</em> (2 months ago) by <em>z-man</em>
08:36 <z-man> <br>Original Path: <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=log&pathrev=4264"><em>armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.cpp</em></a>
08:36 <z-man> <br>File length: 68717 byte(s)
08:36 <z-man> <br>Diff to <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?r1=4093&r2=4264">previous 4093</a>
08:36 <wrtlprnft> i need a irc client that supports html i guess
08:36 <z-man> <pre class="vc_log">merged changes from b0_2_8 branch with -j v0_2_8_0_rc4_merged_to_b0_2_8 -j v0_2_8_1_merged_to_b0_2_8
08:36 <z-man> </pre>
08:36 <z-man> Eek, sorry
08:36 <z-man> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=markup&rev=4264
08:36 <z-man> Better not :)
08:36 <wrtlprnft> just the last uri?
08:36 <z-man> Just that one
08:36 <wrtlprnft> ok, i was already worried ;)
08:37 <z-man> I'd like it if a copy/paste from a web browser would get rid of that HTML :)
08:41 <wrtlprnft> it should?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> does for me...
08:42 <z-man> Apparently, firefox has a different policy.
08:42 <z-man> Sorry, the revision is wrong :(
08:42 <z-man> There is some of Lucifer's microphone stuff in it that's missing from meriton's base version.
08:43 <wrtlprnft> why can't i just diff the revision i committed and the one before that?
08:43 <z-man> That would just revert all changes, wouldn't it?
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> I like the camera, I'm just confused is all
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> microphone stuff?
08:43 <z-man> Sound
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> ah
08:44 * Lucifer_arma doesn't think it will matter
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> have you had a problem with it?
08:44 <wrtlprnft> why? I could just say gvimdiff <revisionbefore> <currentrevision>
08:44 <z-man> No, but wrtlprnft also overwrote all bugfixes.
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> he didn't overwrite my playlist bugfix :)
08:45 <wrtlprnft> all bugfixes in eCamera.*
08:45 <z-man> That wasn't in eCamera.cpp :)
08:45 <z-man> Actually, the sound still crashes on me on exit with some bad memory stuff. I'll get back to you when I know details.
08:45 <z-man> It's definitely our problem, not arts :)
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> sound? Hmmm........
08:46 * Lucifer_arma isn't getting an exit crash :/
08:46 <z-man> #0 0x0000000000524c08 in eChannel::GetOwner (this=0xbadf00d0badf00d) at eChannel.h:119
08:46 <z-man> #1 0x00000000005230c5 in eSoundMixer::RemoveContinuous (this=0xe54d70, soundEffect=11, owner=0xfb2d38)
08:46 <z-man> at ../../../../armagetronad/src/engine/eSoundMixer.cpp:454
08:46 <z-man> #2 0x0000000000415688 in ~gCycle (this=0xfb2d38) at ../../../../armagetronad/src/tron/gCycle.cpp:1453
08:46 <z-man> #3 0x000000000053513c in nNetObject::Release (this=0xfb2d88)
08:46 <z-man> at ../../../../armagetronad/src/network/nNetObject.cpp:582
08:46 <z-man> backtrace.
08:46 <z-man> As you see, the this pointer in eChannel::GetOwner is bad :)
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> eSoundMixer::RemoveContinuous is supposed to be disabled with an early return
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> because that pointer is bad :)
08:47 * Lucifer_arma wonders if that's another fix that got clobbered when the playlist fix was originally clobbered
08:47 <z-man> probably
08:47 * z-man has the nasty feeling he was the clobberer
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> the *Continuous stuff didn't pan out (no pun intended), and I've been trying to rethink it
08:47 <wrtlprnft> at least I'm not the only one killing bugfixes ;)
08:48 <z-man> Well, who knows?
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> heh, this happened awhile ago. I don't even know when, just that it was long enough between my own updates that it couldn't be pinpointed usefully
08:50 <z-man> svn diff says I didn't clobber anything in the last four months.
08:51 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: must have been you yourself :)
08:51 <wrtlprnft> ok, g2g, cya
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> it's possible I fixed it locally and forgot to commit :)
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> the only I know for sure is that when I fixed it yesterday, I could clearly remember having fixed it before ;)
08:52 * Lucifer_arma is back.
08:52 <wrtlprnft> oh, really
08:52 * wrtlprnft is really away now
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm starting my calc 2 class with a virgin notebook :)
08:55 <z-man> Hope you remember everything from calc 1 :)
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha :)
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> I bought pencils that came with 5 spare erasers. as long as I can keep them away from my wife, I should be fine. :)
08:57 <z-man> Is she a pencil eater?
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, I don't know
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> see, we had this pack of shiny new pencils, 11, and I had taken out 2 to put in my backpack, 1 to work with, and 1 spare, right?
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> I used those same two pencils for a whole semester :)
08:58 <z-man> Ok
08:59 <z-man> And the pack is now mysteriously empty.
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> she starts school, and within a month, all 9 of the remaining pencils had completely disappeared along with the spare pack of lead
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I bitched really loudly, because I discovered the situation on the morning my 2 pencils finally gave up their last lead and I had a test
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> for the next two weeks, the pencils started to appear, with their erasers rubbed all the way down and completely empty of lead
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> so I grabbed what I could and am in the process of assembling a secret cache of lead and erasers
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> she can trash pencils if she wants, that's her problem. :)
09:00 <z-man> har
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> my cache will ultimately include pencils that take both kinds of lead and preferably the most common erasers so I can steal a little bit of her supply when needed
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> she won't notice me taking a few in that vast ocean of waste she's got going
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's the same with paper, only I've chosen paper incompatible with her own note-taking habits to make sure we don't collide on that :)
09:03 <z-man> Don't underestimate female intuition. If you accidentally pick her favorite rubber, which is of course completely indistinguishable from the rest, she'll go berserk :)
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> she has 2 staplers, count 'em, 2. I have 1, and she still tries to borrow it. "No honey, you have 2 staplers, find one of them"
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's true.
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> Luckily I'm keeping a public stockpile of pencils that she's completely aware of in an attempt to keep her from discovering the secret cache
09:05 <z-man> One of my distinct relatives was saint to always have a bar of gold lying beside the bed so potential thieves can grab that and go away and don't look further for valuables :)
09:05 <z-man> Luckily, he was never robbed, they say.
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh. smart guy :)
09:08 <z-man> Ok, back to work.
09:08 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: I'm not getting email notifications from the forums anymore
09:30 <@guru3> oops i guess
09:30 <@guru3> i'll look into it at some point
09:53 * Lucifer_arma is away: school
10:16 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
10:28 * wrtlprnft needs help with svn :(
10:28 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn update -r 4093 src/engine/eCamera.h
10:28 <wrtlprnft> D src/engine/eCamera.h
10:28 <wrtlprnft> Updated to revision 4093.
10:29 <wrtlprnft> why is it deleting it?
10:30 <wrtlprnft> svn log says that revision exists
10:30 <wrtlprnft> same problem if i give it a date
10:37 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: that revision may only exist on another branch
10:38 <z-man-work> what does"svn info" say?
10:38 <z-man-work> what's the URL?
10:42 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn info src/engine/eCamera.h
10:42 <wrtlprnft> URL: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:42 <wrtlprnft> Revision: 4628
10:43 <z-man-work> Ah, back at that revision, the URI was different
10:43 <z-man-work> that was before Luke moved stuff around
10:43 <wrtlprnft> teah, sure
10:44 <wrtlprnft> *yeah
10:44 <wrtlprnft> sure it was before luke moved anything
10:45 <z-man-work> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h?view=markup&rev=886
10:45 <z-man-work> Original Path: armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:46 <z-man-work> gaa, wrong revision
10:46 <z-man-work> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h?view=markup&rev=4607
10:46 <z-man-work> armagetronad/branches/b0_2_8/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:46 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i don't want the branch...
10:47 <wrtlprnft> i'd like the last version in the trunk before my accidential commit
10:50 <z-man-work> sorry, of course. use
10:50 <z-man-work> svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine
10:50 <z-man-work> to get the whole directory
10:51 <z-man-work> I don't know right now how to get a single file.
10:51 <wrtlprnft> hmm, guess it's fine for me
10:52 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine
10:52 <wrtlprnft> svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/armagetronad/!svn/bc/4628/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine'
10:52 <wrtlprnft> svn: '/svnroot/armagetronad/!svn/bc/4628/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine' path not found
10:53 <wrtlprnft> uh, is CVS still up readonly?
10:53 <wrtlprnft> then i'd just get the file from there :)
10:54 <z-man-work> Yes, CVS is still up.
10:54 <wrtlprnft> :)
10:56 <wrtlprnft> g2g, thanks for your help
10:56 <z-man-work> np
11:37 <Luke-Jr> svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine
11:48 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: tested that? :)
12:12 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:23 * Lucifer_arma is back.
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> did svn update right before starting the build, which was last night around 10pm CDT
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> oops, wrong channel
12:47 * Lucifer_arma thinks he likes saying "trunk" better than "head"
12:50 <z-man-work> They mean different things. trunk is the main branch, and head is the latest revision therein. End of nitpick.
12:51 <z-man-work> Correction: I think in SVN, head is just the latest revision wherever you are. Doesn't have to be the trunk.
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. the convention I've seen with svn projects is that trunk means what we used to say head in the absence of any qualifiers
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I was wondering something. In moving to the rendering model we keep talking about but not quite doing, how does the renderer know about sparks?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> is it supposed to check for a spark condition itself, or is the game object supposed to know it's creating sparks?
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> aha, nvm. gSpark is a game object spawned by a cycle
13:06 <z-man-work> I think sparks would stop to be game objects by then, they don't influence anything.
13:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5029230.stm <--- turned the map the wrong way
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so if sparks stop being a game object, how should the renderer know it needs to render them? Will the game object responsible tell it? or is it supposed to detect such things on its own?
13:10 <z-man-work> I think we should have "visual objects". The renderer should know about those, not about game objects. The usual game objects would carry one visual around with them.
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> so instead of creating a gSpark, gCycle would create an rSpark? Which would be one of those visual objects and not in the eGameObject inheritance
13:14 <z-man-work> right.
13:15 <z-man-work> Only that probably rCycle should create the rSpark, acting on events or whatnot from the gCycle.
13:18 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
13:18 <z-man-work> morning, joda
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> right, however it does it, it would be based on the same mechanism by which gSparks are currently created
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> morning joda. It's morning?
13:18 <z-man-work> right.
13:18 <joda_bot> "morning" ;)
13:18 <z-man-work> somewhere, yes.
13:18 <joda_bot> It's evening but I've been in bed all day
13:18 <z-man-work> flu?
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> syphilis?
13:18 <joda_bot> The chat log should contain the reason why I'm ill ;)
13:18 <joda_bot> z-man-work: Any changes to the master server ?
13:18 <joda_bot> http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=18&threadid=889&page=1#1
13:18 <z-man-work> None I know.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> someone's is down, might be mine
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> that post is in german?
13:18 <z-man-work> It's a german board.
13:18 <joda_bot> hm, is it currently the "master" the old 0.2.7.1 version uses ?
13:18 * Lucifer_arma knew it was a german board, was being lazy and not clicking the link :)
13:18 <joda_bot> He just complains that he can't see the "classic" servers on the list
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> says mine is running
13:18 <joda_bot> I guess he refering to 0.2.7.x
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it's not the one the old versions use
13:19 <z-man-work> Mine is running, too, spewing out log messages.
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> I just noticed last night when I hit internet game one of the masters was unavailable
13:20 <z-man-work> The only "Classic" server it knows is Tigers Network Classic Play
13:20 * Lucifer_arma wonders if we could get guru3 to write a php script to give us status of all master servers
13:21 <z-man-work> #later tell guru3 * Lucifer_arma wonders if we could get guru3 to write a php script to give us status of all master servers
13:21 <armabot> z-man-work: The operation succeeded.
13:21 <z-man-work> we'll find out :)
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> same with mine
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's the only classic server it knows
13:22 <z-man-work> What are "Classic" servers, anyay?
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> tank's
13:23 <joda_bot> I don't know I'll ask him and add the information to the wiki... Bobby says: "Classic servers are ..."
13:24 <z-man-work> Tiger's? I've got four of them.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> me too
13:24 * Lucifer_arma responding slowly because he's eating tacos
13:24 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
13:24 <LuciEatsPeople> I think Classic servers are settings that were prominent when tank started playing
13:24 <joda_bot> z-man-work: Did you get the teleport bug cry ?
13:24 <LuciEatsPeople> guru3: What is a classic server?
13:25 <z-man-work> Dunno, which one?
13:25 <joda_bot> It was on CVS Test Fortress I turned right and killed some other player turning left
13:25 <LuciEatsPeople> most bug cries he gets lately are "BUG: lag"
13:25 <joda_bot> Should have been yesterday or the day before
13:25 <joda_bot> sorry, really have to make notes about it
13:25 <joda_bot> My line contained teleport
13:25 <z-man-work> I haven't kept up to date too well the last days cause of the conversion.
13:25 <joda_bot> np
13:26 <joda_bot> Just wanted you to know that the inital grind and split teleport kill seems to happen in rare cases
13:26 <z-man-work> Will try to check on that.
13:26 <LuciEatsPeople> umm, people are going through walls left and right these days, are you sure some recent change didn't exacerbate this "old" bug?
13:27 <LuciEatsPeople> don't know that I'm complaining too loudly, though, had a few good rushes earlier because of that bug :)
13:27 <z-man-work> hehe
13:27 <joda_bot> he was on the left of center ... I was on the right and he confirmed he turned left but was killed by me
13:27 <joda_bot> without turning much
13:27 <z-man-work> roger that.
13:28 <LuciEatsPeople> is there any chance that's the tunneling bug I'm talking about? Seems like he could've tunneled when he set his grind, and that's why it looks like it does
13:28 <joda_bot> might be that I only marked the enemies wall a split second before he died ?
13:28 <LuciEatsPeople> everyone is pretty close, it gets hard to tell people apart
13:28 <joda_bot> It's not important to check it right away
13:29 <z-man-work> I don't really know, I have to check every incident in the debugger.
13:29 <joda_bot> but it's a possible bug so I just wanted to pass the information around
13:29 <joda_bot> I'd really like to investigate a last round recording feature
13:29 <joda_bot> this would really make additional debug info easier
13:30 <joda_bot> but it requires a state dump at the start of each round
13:30 <z-man-work> We'd need savegames first.
13:30 <LuciEatsPeople> store the previous round's recording, and then when you hit something like that, hit "store this round"?
13:30 <joda_bot> heh ;)
13:30 <joda_bot> z-man-work: When is the game refactoring scheduled ?
13:30 <z-man-work> when I have time :)
13:31 <z-man-work> I want the refactoring to be useful for scripting, so after the script evaluation thing.
13:31 <z-man-work> We need to casually look at swig+ruby, swig+python and boost+python
13:31 <joda_bot> Because if phillipe changes spawn point handling and I mess with the teams / players ... possible spawn point selection down the road somewhere... it might help to consider a future structure to make it all fit
13:32 <z-man-work> that's pretty independent stuff, as far as I see it.
13:32 <z-man-work> gGame is mostly responsible for the round infrastrucure and the winning conditons.
13:32 <joda_bot> hm, ok woudl it be possible to allow players to move their cycle while the game timer is pauses
13:32 <z-man-work> gGame will use the stuff you dream up.
13:32 <joda_bot> paused ?
13:33 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
13:33 <joda_bot> or will the client not send key presses to the server then ?
13:33 <z-man-work> during startup?
13:33 <joda_bot> hm ;)
13:33 <z-man-work> Yes, currently, keypresses are ignored for t < 0
13:34 <joda_bot> ok... so there goes the easy way to test spawn point positioning in a zone ... np just wanted to known how complicated the changes would be
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> seems like what you really want is to call something like World->Initialize, and have that delegate to the scripts/classes/functions that setup spawn points
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> and the rest of the stuff
13:34 <joda_bot> It's moved down then
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> then have a state variable in each player object that contains their spawn point, and let them edit it at will with changes being sent to the server
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: on scripting, afaic, we really should ought to support ruby :)
13:35 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: The current plan is that spawn points or areas are defined in the maps. Later a players might be allowed to position himself in a spawn area.
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: great. :)
13:36 <joda_bot> From my point of view the important part of the scripting stuff is what we want on the scripting side, and which data / functions are assigned to which objects
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> but it seems to me the game shouldn't do a paused area where players set up before each round. But if such a thing is desired, I'd like to see it available in scripting, like as a use case for what scripts can do
13:37 <joda_bot> This way we also get a better idea of what design components might be missing right now
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> the hand-waving answer is "everything" :)
13:37 <z-man-work> yes ;)
13:37 <z-man-work> We should "simply" switch to using proper interfaces.
13:38 <joda_bot> So we might start to collect functions and data values on the wiki ?
13:38 <z-man-work> Instead of everyone working with gCycle directly, you should work with an abstract gICycle.
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> for what? As in what we want in scripting?
13:39 <z-man-work> Why not directly in header files? Properly doxymented, of course.
13:39 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I guess the scripting part and structuring part will overlap in most places
13:39 <joda_bot> hm, I'd prefer to make it plain text / graphics first just to make it easier for others to read up
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, ummm, what we're doing now, afaik, is hoping to depend on inheritance and swig doing it the Right Way, and otherwise marking stuff with "insert scripting here"
13:40 <joda_bot> Anybody can have a look that way and we also have basic design doc which can be read without understanding code
13:40 <z-man-work> joda_bot: yes, that's a point, but external docs get out of sync with actual code quickly
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> we also need an api scripts can use to get game data, that api might be in a script's base class or it might be global functions or some combination of the two
13:40 <joda_bot> z-man-work: hm, right ...
13:40 * Lucifer_arma thinks he's read some obsolete in-code docs a time or three
13:41 <z-man-work> Yes, but they're easier to spot and correct :)
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> I've got this crazy attitude that if we do a good job compartmentalizing the thing and putting the other things in the right places, then scripting should add itself pretty much
13:42 * Lucifer_arma reminds y'all not to go in against a Sardinian when death is on the line!
13:43 <z-man-work> Yes, I'd say having proper interfaces for C++ and wrapping them up with SWIG would give us perfect scripting. (If SWIG does its job)
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> how big an "if" is that, anyway?
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> and is it based more on ignorance of or actual experience with swig?
13:43 <z-man-work> If the interfaces hadle pointers to other interfaces and simple stuff like strings and floats, we're safe.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I share some of joda's concern that maybe it won't work out and we'll have a big mess on our hands instead
13:44 <z-man-work> I never actually *worked* with it, only played extensively.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> aha, but 'round here, you're the SWIGxpert
13:44 <z-man-work> That's why we're evaluating it in a branch.
13:45 <z-man-work> AFAIK, subversion uses swig for all its script bindings, and they seem to be useful.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, everyone uses swig and boost is just one of those single project things. There's also SIP, you know, if we wanted to fool with that.
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> but SIP is designed and maintained to make pyQt bindings and that's it. I suspect boost + python is something similar, a one project deal
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> and since we want ruby to pick up the people that hate python :) ...
13:47 <z-man-work> I thought we want ruby to allow secure execution of downloaded code?
13:47 <z-man-work> We don't want people that hate Python.
13:48 <z-man-work> They can work with Lua on gltron, if they must.
13:49 * z-man-work is hungry and leaves for home.
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> no way! holy shit, the particle system built
14:03 * joda_bot admires lucifer the god of particle system miracles
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> heh
14:31 * Lucifer_arma just added a configure option to enable particles, now he wants to add code to do something when that option is picked
14:51 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:55 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187142.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
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15:01 * wrtl_web_broken can't wait to see new explosions and sparks :)
15:01 <wrtl_web_broken> Or even let dead player's walls explode when they disappear
15:02 <wrtl_web_broken> or the menu when you exit it
15:02 * wrtl_web_broken is dreaming
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> the new sparks are ruling, except that they're coming off in a big sheet :)
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> our grid coordinates map y on the grid to z in openGL, right?
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> It is merely a triple of rendering attributes, like color, and can be interpreted at the whim of the application programmer (that's you)
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> is it really? :)
15:13 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, lets go pwn cvs :p
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, the cvs players were seeming to be traumatized earlier
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> I think we've been in there too much together last day or two :)
15:14 <spidey> lol
15:14 <spidey> dude,sp was all like everyone change teams so sp can be on one team and pwn you
15:14 <spidey> we did and they got pwnt/left
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:15 <spidey> freak does have a tight grind though
15:15 <spidey> i beat it twice :/
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I added particle-based sparks and now I've got a huge mega memory leak :(
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> looks cool though, having fountains of sparks streaming off wall contact
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: when do particles get deleted?
15:18 <z-man> gSparks delete themselves, IIRC by returning "true" in TimeStep()
15:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8E63.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
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15:21 <Lucifer_arma> if (currentTime>createTime+4)
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> return true;
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> there, I take it? Hmmmm........
15:22 <z-man> We should at one time change that to throwing a DeleteMe exception or something. Boolean return values suck. I never can remember what stands for what.
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh. That looks to me like it makes a 4 second lifetime for particles
15:23 <z-man> (Exceptions are of course function like IsMemberOfTeam...)
15:23 <z-man> looks like it, yes.
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so if I just change that condition and maybe reduce the number of sparks, I should be ok.
15:24 * Lucifer_arma is looking for a way to let the particle system determine its own lifetime
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I've only got 1000 particles per spark :)
15:28 <wrtl_web_broken> 1000? Gosh, i don't wanna know how slow this will run on my system :(
15:28 <wrtl_web_broken> but i'm interested in screenshots
15:28 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["hope that works"]
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> when I get this memory leak thing fixed I'll commit and everyone can see it :)
15:32 <z-man> joda_bot: there?
15:33 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: bah, memory leaks. Just ignore. We all got at least 512 Mb, unless that is filled within seconds, we don't mind :)
15:34 <joda_bot> z-man: yes
15:34 <z-man> Oh, wait, you don't use VisualC anyway.
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> filled within seconds, z-man, within seconds :(
15:34 <z-man> I wanted to ask whether it is OK with you to disable precompiled headers in winlibs.
15:35 <z-man> Guess it is :)
15:35 <z-man> joda_bot: sorry for waking you up.
15:35 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: shouldn't be too hard to find, then :)
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> I know where it's at, what I don't know is how to fix it :)
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> problem is deleting particle groups. When the group is finished, how do I delete it?
15:36 <z-man> That part is simple, just delete every pointer you allocate :)
15:36 <z-man> How do you know it's finished?
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not allocating any. The system manages its own memory, but the only way it knows it's done with itself is if I tell it
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's a good question :)
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> pSink(false, PDPlane(pVec(0,0,0), pVec(0,0,1))); <--- kills all particles that fall under the floor
15:37 <joda_bot> z-man: No I got no problems with it and I haven't used VisC for a while ..
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that vector might be wrong, though
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> if (pGetGroupCount() < SPARKS/10) {
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> pDeleteParticleGroups(particle_handle, particle_handle);
15:37 * z-man doesn't want to look at the particle library right now
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> ok :)
15:40 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187142.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:46 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> ok, got it under some control and committed
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> not it'll probably take more like 10-20 minutes to get bad :)
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you have to --enable-particles to configure to get it
15:47 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
15:50 <z-man> I'll give it a try.
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> I should point out I ripped the code from the fountain example. heh. :)
15:56 <spidey> http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000583030620/
15:56 <spidey> i'ma make that
16:01 <z-man> I just wanted to say that the effect you picked doesn't look like sparky :)
16:11 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:13 <z-man> nemostultae: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3751
16:13 <z-man> If you don't want macosx_recorder in SVN any more at all, just say so, I'll do the fighting with Luke.
16:14 * z-man holds that developers have a right to do armagetron related side projects any way they like.
16:19 <z-man> Time to learn how you merge branches in SVN...
16:22 <nemostultae> hmm, maybe I should hard wrap my commit messages... http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad
16:24 <z-man> Naa. It's not your fault if the tool can't handle that.
16:24 <z-man> Rakefile?
16:25 <nemostultae> http://rake.rubyforge.org -- I like it more than make.
16:26 <z-man> Interesting.
16:26 <joda_bot> somehow I'm getting only half of the conversation ;)
16:26 <joda_bot> anyother channel in use between nemo and z-man ?
16:26 <z-man> Probably you don't click the links :)
16:27 <joda_bot> ah ;)
16:27 <joda_bot> that explains it
16:46 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: nope, but yours was just missing an 'armagetronad'
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> gSpark doesn't know the vector of the cycle, does it?
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> er, direction?
16:47 <z-man> no, I think it only gets the normal of the wall
16:47 <z-man> Luke-Jr: ?
16:48 <Luke-Jr> z-man: note I never said he had to keep it in Svn, just that it would make sense if it was to be released along with the game, and that if it is maintained outside Svn, it should be released seperately and deleted from Svn
16:48 <Luke-Jr> z-man: re the checkout line earlier
16:48 <z-man> ok about recorder
16:49 <z-man> your svn update command didn't work; mine worked for me (don't know why it didn't work for wrtl)
16:49 <z-man> I don't have them in my chatlog here, so I can't check again :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, made the sparks look more like sparks
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> also reduced them in number, so now it's a long stream of sparks that falls behind you. Still feels flooded. Hm
17:02 * Lucifer_arma needs to remind himself to profile it now and see what it looks like :)
17:05 <z-man> Hehe, look where the fake svn import activity got us :) http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=80
17:18 <Luke-Jr> z-man: from nemo's reply, I figure we should probably just delete the recorder from Svn trunk and 0.2.8* (or at least wherever you started making the branches in it)
17:19 <Luke-Jr> too bad he didn't mention Svn action to be taken
17:20 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ok, so I rename winlibs to armagetronad_winlibs everywhere EXCEPT trunk, 0.2.8, and 0.2.8.2? or is 0.2.8.0 included?
17:20 <Luke-Jr> (the branch)
17:20 <z-man> It's fixed in 0.2.8 already, winlibs is fine there.
17:21 <z-man> 0.2.8.2 is dead in svn like the rest, so it should be armagetronad_winlibs there, too.
17:21 <z-man> I'll handle the trunk later, joda has updated the code_blocks files with a version I haven't got yet, so I can't touch it.
17:21 <z-man> Well, I can touch it, but I can't test.
17:22 <z-man> Well, I can test. I just got to make the edit by hand.
17:22 <z-man> Aw, anyway :) Just leave trunk and 0.2.8 alone, rename it in the rest :)
17:25 <z-man> And I'd say nemostultae's "so it may be removed from SVN" means we can remove it. It isn't updated any more, so keeping it around doesn't make too much sense to me.
17:25 <Luke-Jr> ok, so you want to do that or should I schedule it for after this rename? =p
17:25 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Drain Bamaged"]
17:26 <Luke-Jr> if you want me to do it, let me know which branch you started branching with
17:26 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:31 <z-man> you know the branching order. trunk -> 0.2.8, 0.2.8 -> 0.2.8.0 and 0.2.8 -> 0.2.8.2
17:31 <z-man> macosx_recorder was branced with the rest every time.
17:32 <z-man> I'd delete it in 0.2.8 and the trunk. In the others, it can stay for historical interests.
17:32 <Luke-Jr> nemo didn't do the branching ever?
17:33 <z-man> No, all modules were branched by me all together every time.
17:33 <Luke-Jr> o
17:34 <Luke-Jr> if you can do it, it'd get done faster-- this renaming will take a while ;)
17:34 <Luke-Jr> bbiab
17:34 <z-man> We're not in a hurry :) But I'll do it anyway.
17:34 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:45 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:45 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:45 <Self_Destructo> notes
17:45 <Self_Destructo> hrm
17:45 <Self_Destructo> my 3 key doesn't work :/
17:47 <spidey> lol
17:47 <spidey> hey sd,what'd you want lastnight before you left?
17:56 <spidey> #notes
17:56 <armabot> spidey: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax, and phil.
17:56 <spidey> meh
18:05 <wrtlprnft> hmm, the particles don't seem to affect my framerate :)
18:05 <wrtlprnft> at least not sgnificantly
18:05 <spidey> *burps*
18:07 <wrtlprnft> although the current code doesn't look like sparks :P
18:08 <wrtlprnft> and they shouldn't be grey, more yellowish. But I guess they'll improve :)
18:15 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
18:20 <Self_Destructo> spidey: i was just going to tell you i had all my research for destroyers done
18:21 <spidey> cool
18:21 <spidey> i'll have enough resources in 4 hours to send mine hyperdrive to lvl 6
18:21 <spidey> then 3 days to research :/
18:22 <spidey> i'll be hitting 28k points by tonight
18:23 <spidey> i need 532 points to get there
18:24 <spidey> i have 63 BS :D
18:36 <Self_Destructo> wow
18:37 <Self_Destructo> I set back on fleet till I could get hyper lever 6
18:37 <Self_Destructo> I'm building it now, while i build another planet up to a nice size
18:38 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
18:41 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
18:43 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I think there is no timer for memorizing the glance pointer
18:43 <wrtlprnft> it just "snaps" to the closest axis
18:44 <wrtlprnft> so, if you loot forward + or - 45 degress and press glance right you'll end up looking right
18:44 <wrtlprnft> *look
18:45 <wrtlprnft> if you were looking 46 degrees to the right (for example because you just turned left and the camera didn't update fast enough) you end up glancing backwards
18:50 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187142.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:51 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:53 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
19:09 <wrtlprnft> committed my merge and added a new setting to fix nemo's glance- back problem
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, gParticles will be a thing of the past when I'm done ;)
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> gotta cook dinner, though.
19:28 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to make sparks more dense and less dense?
19:28 <wrtlprnft> like, currently there are is a big bunch of sparks released at once every decisecond or so
19:28 <wrtlprnft> what about continuously spawning them?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> but the same amount of sparks per second as now
19:44 <Lucifer_arma> problem there is position. gSparks is created with the cycle's position, if you spawn more sparks over the next quarter of a second you have no reason to believe the cycle's still there making sparks
19:44 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, you know it probably isn't
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> the way to do it is to increase the rate at which gSparks are created, but that's determined by simulation speed. It's a smooth flow on my system...
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> we might try decreasing the number of sparks and increasing their size, though. That might make it look smoother.
19:45 <wrtlprnft> that kinda sucks...
19:46 <wrtlprnft> isn't there a way to check if you grinded a wall the last timestep and if you did make lots of sparks in between?
19:50 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034187142.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, not that I know of. We might try sending a range of positions to gSparks that includes position at last time step and position at this one
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> then gSparks can use that to determine how many sparks to generate and where to place them
19:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:51 <wrtlprnft> or better try to figure out where the grinding started
19:51 <wrtlprnft> so you don't get the first and last few decimeters without sparks
20:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_1.png
20:00 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> what's that thing at the bottom?
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> heh, and did you intentionally slant all the text?
20:12 <wrtlprnft> that's the whole point of the screenshot ;)
20:12 <wrtlprnft> i was slanting it so i could see the nonexistent 3rd dimension of the font
20:12 <wrtlprnft> I'm trying to make the text 3- dimensional
20:13 <wrtlprnft> and that ting at the bottom right is probably kicker overlapping arma
20:13 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:13 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
20:34 <wrtlprnft> wtf
20:35 <wrtlprnft> glMatrixMode() is trowing a very weird error
20:35 <wrtlprnft> all other functions like glPopMatrix() work, just this one strikes. It works in other files that have similar includes.
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: invalid token
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: invalid token
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp: In member function `void rFontContainer::Render(const tString&, float, const tCoord&)':
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: `error' was not declared in this scope
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: expected `;' before "error"
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: warning: unused variable 'error'
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> hey, what's the k program that let's me fix my resolution?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> kcontrol?
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's not it, that's just the control center
20:38 <Lucifer_arma> arma crashed and left me in 640x480
20:38 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:38 <wrtlprnft> peripherials
20:38 <wrtlprnft> screen
20:38 <wrtlprnft> change it to some other resolution than the one you want and press cancel if it asks you if you wanna keep it
20:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: ...
20:39 <Luke-Jr> anyway
20:39 <wrtlprnft> s/screen/display
20:39 <Luke-Jr> so shall we keep our existing Svn import, or would people prefer I do it in a way that minimizes the moves?
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, there was something else, I thought. I got it with something or other
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> The font file: ../../armagetronad/textures/Armagetronad.ttf
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x086e0fe0 ***
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> happened with my new explosion code :(
20:40 <wrtlprnft> o_O
20:40 <wrtlprnft> those things should be totally unrelated...
20:41 <wrtlprnft> maybe something's overflowing and screwing up FTGL?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> bactrace?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> *back
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> it's unlikely to be something in ftgl, more likely to be coincidence
20:42 <wrtlprnft> if there was a crash it must have been inside ftgl
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> this time it didn't crash until the end, hmmmmm
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's definitely my stuff :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> because right after it's checking for an error and it doesn't get there
20:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, your stuff crashes ftgl ;)
20:44 <Lucifer_arma> probably something weird about how it's being rendered
20:45 <wrtlprnft> maybe your particles any my ftgl just don't like each other...
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better not commit yet :)
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> crashing for every explosion is bad
20:45 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:45 <wrtlprnft> grr, what's wrong with that font?
20:46 <wrtlprnft> it refuses to render threedimensionally
20:47 <wrtlprnft> like, you can turn the thing, but it refuses to add the 3rd dimension
20:47 <Lucifer_arma> does a different font work?
20:47 <wrtlprnft> there is just one font type that can do that 3rd dimension thing
20:47 <wrtlprnft> and only two of them you can turn freely
20:48 <wrtlprnft> FTGLExtrdFont is the one I'm using
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, disable all the particle stuff in explosions and it still crashes
20:50 <wrtlprnft> o_O
20:50 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't crash for me
20:51 <wrtlprnft> so it must have been one of your changes since your last committ
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> appears to get through the constructor....
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's gotta be a change since my last commit because it didn't crash on my last commit :)
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> last commit was just finishing up the sparks for now
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> I wanted to throw the explosions in too so they could be toyed with...
20:53 <wrtlprnft> what about gdb?
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> what about it? ;)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> what is its backtrace?
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> it's this neat thing that unwinds the stack after a crash
20:56 <wrtlprnft> no, but does it show anything?
20:56 <wrtlprnft> O_o
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> haven't looked. :) Littering with debug lines right now.
20:57 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, gdb gives nice verbose backtraces
20:57 <Lucifer_arma> I like to see if I can isolate the crash when it's over such a small amount of code without a debugger
20:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> weird. ran out of options, gdbed anyway, and there's no explosion stuff in the backtrace
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> arg
21:00 <Lucifer_arma> does svn do an update when you commit? Is there a chance I got a broken update?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> dunno
21:02 <wrtlprnft> try setting FONT_FILE to 0 and see if it still occurs
21:06 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: hey, does that svn cp trick work for you?
21:07 <wrtlprnft> uh, i didn't try it anymore
21:07 <wrtlprnft> I got my file through CVS
21:08 <Luke-Jr> pfft
21:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:08 <Luke-Jr> that's cheating
21:08 <wrtlprnft> that's something that works without hours of trying
21:08 <Luke-Jr> I didn't try for hours to get the svn cp trick ;)
21:18 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia overstatement
21:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.16 seconds: Bernie Sanders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders>; Stylistic device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylistic_device>; Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Croat Canuck - Wikipedia, the ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Croat_Canuck>; Wikipedia (2 more messages)
21:19 <wrtlprnft> 2nd one for you
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AC2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> it's one of those crash bugs where if you just change one of the lines it crashes somewheres else
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> funky, it is
21:38 * wrtlprnft is about to give up on 3d fonts... besides weird effects he gets nothing
21:42 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@80.144.168.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: next time you update to HEAD, can you send me a screenshot of what you get with FONT_TYPE set to 6?
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I'll try to remember. That the 3d one?
21:48 * Lucifer_arma is half asleep.
21:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:51 <wrtlprnft> for me it's somewhat 3d
21:51 <wrtlprnft> it misses the front and back end for me, i wanna gnow if that's a graphic card issue
21:51 <wrtlprnft> but the sides are rendered fine
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> here, look, more examples of doublebinding:
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
21:52 * Lucifer_arma is quite tickled by that post :)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> /|/Z_/\
21:53 <wrtlprnft> that's triple binding on oktatron
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> ______________________||________________________-------______------_______
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> and in the other direction:
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> =================================]
21:54 <wrtlprnft> /L_--'--_|'''\S\
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> fortress? ;)
21:54 <wrtlprnft> >~~~~~~~~~~<
21:54 <wrtlprnft> fortress?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> ah
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> somehow, something I'm doing is corrupting either the game object list or the explosion list
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> and i'm too sleepy to work it out
21:55 <wrtlprnft> night?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> oh wait, Lucifer_arma never sleeps
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe tomorrow, or maybe I'll clobber what I've done soon, heh
21:55 * Lucifer_arma will be going to bed soon
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> I just saw my wife get out the steam cleaner, though, and head to my bedroom. Hard to sleep with tht going on.
21:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll just lay on the couch, heh
21:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:57 <wrtlprnft> we should put some ASCII art on the wiki on how to double bind
21:58 <wrtlprnft> at least there you can take advantage of all the nice UTF-8 characters
21:58 <wrtlprnft> like the _ on the top
21:58 <wrtlprnft> or all those DOS keys
21:58 <wrtlprnft> s/keys/chars
22:11 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Drain Bamaged"]
22:36 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
Log from 2006-05-31:
--- Day changed Wed May 31 2006
00:13 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@12-215-177-165.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
00:14 <CraYSuPeRcOm> hey is anyone playing cvs anymore??
00:14 <CraYSuPeRcOm> #news
00:14 <armabot> CraYSuPeRcOm: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
00:15 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: CVS is no more!
00:15 <Luke-Jr> how many times must I say this?
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> that sucks
00:15 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:15 <Luke-Jr> no, CVS sucked
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i wont stand for it
00:15 <Luke-Jr> Svn is much better
00:15 <Luke-Jr> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3465
00:15 <CraYSuPeRcOm> its almost like the spoon tourney killed it
00:16 <Luke-Jr> tourney had nothign to do with it
00:16 <Luke-Jr> we just moved to something better
00:16 <Luke-Jr> no reason to keep CVS
00:18 <CraYSuPeRcOm> man i didnt realize i have been out of the loop for so long ,i need to do some reading in the forums
00:19 <Luke-Jr> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3465
00:19 <Luke-Jr> we've been planning it for a while
00:19 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i have just been to busy to notice
00:20 <CraYSuPeRcOm> havent played armagetron with any regularity since beginning of april
00:20 <Luke-Jr> let me know how you were using CVS and I'll give you the Svn equivalent
00:20 <Luke-Jr> if you want the lastest trunk, use svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> just tinkering, nothing special, havent touched it in awhile though,
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i bookmarked the page
00:21 <CraYSuPeRcOm> thx
00:22 <Luke-Jr> ... what page?
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> when i get some real time to devote to it again i will play with it
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/
00:22 <Luke-Jr> it's a subversion repository
00:22 <Luke-Jr> you checkout the code w/ a svn client
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> sk
00:22 <CraYSuPeRcOm> k'
00:29 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i have tortoiseSVN bust just ranout of time need to go to bed
00:32 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@12-215-177-165.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["IceChat - Chillin with the Best of em"]
00:34 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man: I think I migrated the rest of the 0.2.8 stuff to Svn
00:53 <Luke-Jr> eg, docs and such
00:53 <z-man> Ah, cool.
00:54 <Luke-Jr> z-man: post your script somewhere ;)
00:59 <z-man> done
01:04 <Luke-Jr> z-man: well, doing step-by-step, it should obviously be expected to stop and drop a shell when there's a conflict ;)
01:05 <Luke-Jr> maybe batch merges are better tho, dunno
01:07 <Luke-Jr> as far as redoing the import, post-import changes would be the same as a 4th CVS repository being imported on top of the past 3
01:20 <z-man> We've been doing batch merges for the whole 0.2.8, we probably should continue. If we have something better when 0.3 is ready to get stable, we'll reconsider.
01:20 <Luke-Jr> k
01:21 <z-man> about the import: our changes wouldn't be lost?
01:21 <Luke-Jr> well, no...
01:21 <Luke-Jr> but all working copies would probably be invalidated
01:21 <z-man> You'd just import on top of what we have?
01:21 <Luke-Jr> and I'd rather spend the time coding =p
01:21 <Luke-Jr> no, I'd import from scratch, and include Svn changes in the import
01:22 <z-man> Ok, spend the time coding. It isn't important enough anyway.
01:22 <z-man> Wrtl already took what he needed from CVS, I think :)
01:22 <Luke-Jr> and besides, the workaround I posted should work =p
01:24 <z-man> yes, I think it does. Thanks.
01:42 -!- AfterDeath [n=AfterDea@ppp-70-247-165-123.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
01:42 <AfterDeath> @help
01:42 <AfterDeath> armabot version
01:42 <armabot> AfterDeath: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
01:42 <AfterDeath> supybot
01:43 <Luke-Jr> try roulette ;)
01:43 <AfterDeath> !roulette
01:43 <Luke-Jr> #
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> AfterDeath: *click*
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
01:43 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
01:43 <AfterDeath> lol
01:43 <spidey> ??
01:43 <AfterDeath> armabot roulette
01:43 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
01:43 * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
01:44 <Luke-Jr> it's not a blank if he gets op
01:44 <AfterDeath> ooooo
01:44 <AfterDeath> lol
01:44 <Luke-Jr> like in #armagetron-teams IIRC
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot op
01:44 <armabot> AfterDeath: Error: You don't have the #armagetron,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot users
01:44 <Luke-Jr> eh, guess i don't recall correctly =p\
01:44 <AfterDeath> armabot list
01:44 <armabot> AfterDeath: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
01:44 <AfterDeath> dang
01:44 <AfterDeath> he has the freaking shebang
01:45 <Luke-Jr> lol
01:45 <Luke-Jr> list aliases ;)
01:45 <AfterDeath> list aliases armabot
01:45 <Luke-Jr> #list alias
01:45 <AfterDeath> list alias armabot
01:45 <Luke-Jr> don't think name can go last
01:45 <AfterDeath> armabot list alias
01:45 <armabot> AfterDeath: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, (1 more message)
01:45 <AfterDeath> armabot more
01:45 <armabot> AfterDeath: roulettebot, roulettte, sdasupport, selfcleanalias, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
01:46 <Luke-Jr> whoisshe ;)
01:46 <Luke-Jr> whoisshe z-man
01:46 <AfterDeath> armabot pushredbutton
01:46 <armabot> Don't push this button again!
01:46 <AfterDeath> LOL
01:46 <Luke-Jr> do whoisshe z-man
01:46 * z-man will be back as z-man-work later.
01:47 <Luke-Jr> I'm hungry
01:47 <Luke-Jr> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `thirdparty/particles/libparticles.a', needed by `armagetronad_main'. Stop.
01:48 <Luke-Jr> wtf? I'm building a server
01:50 <Luke-Jr> anyone here? :/
01:50 <Luke-Jr> z-man: hey, read about Virtuals yet? =p
02:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:22 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
02:32 <Luke-Jr> n54: you run a server ever?
02:41 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
02:41 <z-man> I'm on the libparticles.a thing. Looks like Lucifer_arma was a bit careless again :)
02:42 <z-man> The Virtuals sound like the right way to handle player preferences for "default" resources. I haven't though about them in detail yet, I have to admit.
02:42 <Luke-Jr> z-man: yay, how can I configure a fixed 3 player AI team?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> z-man: indeed, I was thinking stuff like default textures, sounds, models, etc and also fonts
02:43 <z-man> A real team that spawns together?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> yes
02:43 <z-man> Sorry, you can't :(
02:43 <Luke-Jr> why?
02:43 <Luke-Jr> the game seems to want to do something similar anyway
02:43 <Luke-Jr> it makes an "AI team" with X players
02:43 <z-man> You can give every team three players with TEAM_MIN_PLAYERS 3
02:44 <z-man> or you can set NUM_AIS to 3 and get the one team with three AIs, but they don't spawn together.
02:45 <z-man> If you want, we can hack in a "spawn AI Team together" switch.
02:47 <Luke-Jr> well, I don't care too much if they spawn together...
02:47 <z-man> But?
02:48 <Luke-Jr> just in game logic I guess is important
02:49 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:50 <z-man> Well, then, NUM_AIS 3 and AUTO_* 0 may be what you want.
02:51 <z-man> Hrmpf, the new particle library produces tons of warnings.
02:52 <Luke-Jr> BTW
02:52 <Luke-Jr> why is it when I do MIN_TEAMS 3 MAX_TEAMS 3
02:52 <Luke-Jr> I get 4 teams always?
02:52 <z-man> A bug? :)
02:52 <Luke-Jr> 3 + AI Team
02:53 <z-man> Perhaps the counter doesn't inlcude the AI Team.
03:18 -!- AfterDeath [n=AfterDea@ppp-70-247-165-123.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["brb!"]
03:37 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
03:37 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: hi - : Race server maps are not found
03:38 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:44 -!- z-man-work [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has joined #armagetron
03:44 -!- z-man [n=moos@l04.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:47 <joda_bot> z-man-work: can we test floor_blue 0.7 and floor_* 0.5 ? I found it to be quite pleasing ?
03:47 <z-man-work> Sure.
03:49 <joda_bot> on my screen that's still pretty dark, but it really depends on ppl tastes if all devs are fine with that, we might test it on a broader scope
03:50 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: can i assign a team colour for AI team? ;)
03:53 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: Not without hacking the source.
03:53 <Luke-Jr> hrm
03:54 <Luke-Jr> do we have map support to position players within teams yet?
03:56 <z-man-work> No
03:56 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: nope ;)
03:56 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
03:56 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: philippe is working on this but waiting for me to start with team management redesign to make it all work
03:57 <z-man-work> Haha. My roommate here wanted to check how much memory is used on his system with kinfocenter :)
03:57 <Luke-Jr> ...
03:57 <z-man-work> Checking with top revealed that kinfocenter alone swallowed 100MB of it :)
03:58 <joda_bot> use kinfocenter to check on top :-P
03:59 <z-man-work> :) I think top can do that itself.
04:01 <z-man-work> Hmm, konversation isn't konservative, either.
04:08 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: can I easily determine the AI Team in code?
04:11 <z-man-work> I think eTeam has an IsHuman member function
04:12 <Luke-Jr> can it tell the diff between a member of "AI Team" and an AI on another team?
04:16 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: you should be able to get the "players" team and ask "isHumanAllowed" or something along these alines
04:16 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:17 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: no such func? O.o
04:19 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: wait
04:19 <Luke-Jr> NumHumanPlayers?
04:19 <Luke-Jr> looks like it'd work
04:21 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: no, you're right it's not there ... I bet I implemented it then, before I decided to reapproach this
04:21 <Luke-Jr> Num is
04:22 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: well, except if it's a eTeam with a single ai in it
04:22 <joda_bot> which is not likely but might exist
04:22 <joda_bot> The design lacks a method isAIOnlyTeam
04:23 <joda_bot> The check is implicitly done inside playermayjoin
04:23 <Luke-Jr> BTW, here's a bug to fix: Instant Chat 15 gets a char 255 appended often
04:23 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: true :/
04:29 <Luke-Jr> I don't see anything to prevent a human from joining the AI team ;/
04:32 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
04:33 <Luke-Jr> nope, nothing to prevent it...
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: uh ?
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: A human can't join because playermayjoin rejects him
04:34 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: but you can't tell the difference between AITeam and HumanTeam without using something like "instanceof" class
04:35 <joda_bot> can't remember the C++ equivalent of that
04:36 <z-man-work> virtual bool IsHuman() const { return true; }
04:36 <z-man-work> is in eTeam
04:36 <Luke-Jr> eTeam has a IsHuman method, but it's const true
04:36 <z-man-work> It's virtual :)
04:37 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: playermayjoin won't reject him...
04:37 <z-man-work> and overridden in gAITeam.
04:37 <Luke-Jr> oh!
04:37 <Luke-Jr> didn't know there WAS a gAITeam =p
04:39 <z-man-work> It also overrides PlayerMayJoin, kicking out humans.
04:39 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: thanks ;)
04:39 <z-man-work> np
04:39 * z-man-work is really away, working
04:40 <Luke-Jr> aww
05:16 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
06:39 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
08:06 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-050-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
08:06 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
08:17 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: can you try connecting again now? I think I fixed it, but can't test
08:19 <wrtlprnft> z-man's server forum is still called "The CVS Test Servers" ;)
08:31 <wrtlprnft> that java tron bot on the page z-man linked to is constantly beating me :(
08:31 <wrtlprnft> but it's mostly because of the weird controls
08:48 * Lucifer_arma wonders if armabot delivers messages on actions
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> ...
08:52 <n54> afaik it doesn't
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> Here's some more examples of double-binding: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
08:56 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
08:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax, and phil.
08:58 <z-man> armabot does not seem to be too eager to pass along the notes.
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> ? there just aren't many....
08:58 <n54> perhaps people haven't reidentified since last it got restarted
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> madmax and phil aren't going to be identified because those strings dont' match actual names that come here
08:59 <z-man> And Luke-Jr?
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know. :) I always worry that his name will be subtly different if I leave a message for him, heh.
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> #message z-man this is a test
09:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
09:00 <z-man> test
09:00 <z-man> got it
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> did you get it?
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> really not more I can do, guru3 and Luke-Jr get a fair amount of traffic on their own anyway :)
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> do we have a file right now that contains physical constants? If not, I was wanting to make one to hold things like gravitational constant... (configurable :) )
09:14 <z-man> Why should physical constants be different from other parameters?
09:15 <z-man> (ah, you're talking source file. No, we don't have that yet. I think we should have. It'd be fun to mess with the speed of light :) )
09:17 <Lucifer_arma> :) I was thinking it'd be neat to have a server with moon gravity
09:17 <Lucifer_arma> got an svn commandline handy that checks out the branch?
09:18 * Lucifer_arma needs a newer version of qemu apparently to test t2 images under Kubuntu
09:20 <n54> #g 5000 eur to nok
09:20 <armabot> n54: 5,000 Euros = 39,123.0679 Norwegian kroner
09:21 <z-man> svn co svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8
09:21 <z-man> minus one "svn co"
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> thanks
09:22 <z-man> VisualC fails to include eChannel.h from eSoundMixer.h in the trunk
09:22 * Lucifer_arma wanted to see if his memory was real
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> eChannel.h is in a subdirectory now that has to be added to the search path
09:22 <z-man> Ah, forgot that.
09:24 <z-man> Amazingly little errors in VisualC this time.
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> wow. Did you try adding the particle system?
09:24 * Lucifer_arma wants to know if the particle system api has as many compiler warnings in VisualC as it does in gcc
09:24 <z-man> Not yet.
09:25 * Lucifer_arma has to leave for class pretty soon
09:25 <z-man> I won't get there today, probably.
09:25 * Lucifer_arma was right, max speed is a static variable
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> is exit_game_grid called every time a player leaves a grid, be it local or network game?
09:27 * Lucifer_arma has a vague memory of not finding a single function that's called every time a player enters a grid
09:28 <z-man> I actually don't know.
09:28 <z-man> It may be called every round.
09:29 <z-man> No, that's it. VisualC 6 doesn't support any of the cool stuff wrtl is using in the cockpit.
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh
09:29 <z-man> Code::blocks is working fine, so I don't mind.
09:29 <z-man> I'll see how VisualC 8 does.
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> good excuse to blow off VisualC support once and for all? ;)
09:30 <z-man> Yes, for the Trunk.
09:30 <z-man> I mean, we can't expect the situation to get better
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> and we're still supported in windows, so it's not like we have to fix it
09:30 <z-man> wrtl, philippe and me all like template stuff, and VisualC 6 is known to suck at that. And we all use Unix.
09:31 <z-man> Right.
09:31 <z-man> I'm pretty sure VisualC8 can be convinced to work.
09:31 * Lucifer_arma expects to develop a liking for templates sooner or later, just hasn't yet
09:33 <Lucifer_arma> I put the init for max_player_speed in init_game_grid, hopefully that's enough, it looks to get called every round
09:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, still needs to be somewhere else, I suspect, now that I think about it. That's not caleld when you join a game, is it?
09:36 <z-man> I honestly don't know.
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> I dropped it in a few other places. Sanity checking right now.
09:38 <z-man> Only 14 errors left in VisualC6, hooray!
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I say it's fixed. The widget still shows the last player's name and speed during the countdown, but when the round starts it resets
09:39 <z-man> cool
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> I could be wrong, though. committing
09:39 <z-man> that's enough.
09:41 <Lucifer_arma> now, one more cigarette and I'm off to school, later :)
09:41 * Lucifer_arma is away: school
09:43 <z-man> have fun learning
09:44 <Lucifer_arma> :)
10:35 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:59 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
11:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
11:10 <wrtlprnft> #later tell wrtl test
11:10 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:10 <wrtlprnft> asdf
11:10 <wrtlprnft> i thought you could just use incomplete names...
11:11 <wrtlprnft> #help later tell
11:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
11:11 <wrtlprnft> ah
11:11 <wrtlprnft> #later tell wrtl* test
11:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:11 <wrtlprnft> asdf
11:11 <wrtlprnft> there it goes :)
11:11 -!- You're now known as wrtl
11:11 <wrtl> asdf
11:11 -!- You're now known as madmax
11:11 <madmax> asdf
11:12 <madmax> philis in use :(
11:12 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
11:13 <wrtlprnft> #later tell madmax* Sent 2 days, 15 hours, and 43 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> uh, currently there's no match planned, but I'd like us to play them...
11:13 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:14 <wrtlprnft> #later tell phil* [notes phil]
11:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:15 <wrtlprnft> notes phil*
11:15 <wrtlprnft> #notes phil*
11:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent just now: <wrtlprnft> Sent 2 days, 15 hours, and 41 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> uh, the fact that you can't put std::auto_ptrs into containers is exactly why i made tAutoDeque ;)
11:15 <wrtlprnft> #notes
11:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, phil, and phil*.
11:16 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma you can delete the note for phil (without the *)
11:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:17 <n54> cool :) btw just change you name to delete the ones you don't want
11:17 <n54> or actually... that might delete all four :S
11:18 <wrtlprnft> no, i can't change my nick to phil
11:19 <wrtlprnft> it's already in use
11:19 <n54> ah ok
11:23 <joda_bo1> Lucifer_arma: You prefer konqueror as browser right ?
11:23 <wrtlprnft> I think he's using FF and tried konqeror for a while
11:26 <joda_bo1> heh
11:26 <joda_bo1> just finished reading up
11:26 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: do you mind to check www.mozilla.org/firefox with opera and any other graphical browser (except ie, and firefox) ?
11:27 <joda_bo1> Because I want to know if they show the green download bubble
11:27 <wrtlprnft> checking in opera...
11:27 <n54> I can check in konqueror and seamonkey later on (not right now - wait ten minutes or so)
11:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, ther is a green bubble
11:28 <wrtlprnft> Download Firefox
11:28 <wrtlprnft> 1.5.0.3 for Windows, English (4.9MB)
11:28 <joda_bo1> and it's closed ?
11:28 <joda_bo1> smart as hack
11:28 <wrtlprnft> closed?
11:28 <joda_bo1> wait
11:28 <wrtlprnft> it looks fine
11:28 <joda_bo1> http://www.mozilla.com/images/template/download-firefox.png
11:29 <joda_bo1> This is the image of the background
11:29 <joda_bo1> They probably hacked the order of the png rows
11:29 <joda_bo1> and each browser displays the broken image in the same way
11:29 <wrtlprnft> i think they just overlapped the image
11:29 <joda_bo1> by putting the last few line at the end of the "mini-page" created by a div
11:30 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: I can see no hints for that in the css, but if you find out where, I'm really happy ;)
11:30 <wrtlprnft> I think it's just the same iomage twice
11:30 <wrtlprnft> so one is a background image, aligned to the top, hiding the bottom
11:30 <wrtlprnft> and one is over it, aligned to the bottom
11:31 <wrtlprnft> so the top part is invisible
11:31 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: are u sure of that ?
11:31 <joda_bo1> http://joda.homeip.net:600/download/armagetron/
11:31 <wrtlprnft> I've read tutorials on it
11:31 <joda_bo1> This is my experiment so far, but it's broken by just resaving the image
11:31 <wrtlprnft> can't connect to that from here
11:31 <wrtlprnft> only ports 80 and 433
11:32 <wrtlprnft> *443
11:32 <joda_bo1> wait ;)
11:33 <wrtlprnft> #main-feature a.download-firefox {
11:33 <wrtlprnft> background: url("/images/template/download-firefox.png") 0 100% no-repeat;
11:33 <wrtlprnft> }
11:33 <wrtlprnft> #main-feature a.download-firefox {
11:33 <wrtlprnft> background: url("/images/template/download-firefox.png") 0 100% no-repeat;
11:33 <wrtlprnft> }
11:33 <joda_bo1> AFAIK it's just the moveover
11:33 <joda_bo1> mouseover
11:33 <wrtlprnft> so, the first one is aligned at the top
11:34 <joda_bo1> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:34 <wrtlprnft> and the span within that is aligned at the bottom
11:34 <wrtlprnft> sec, I'll show you
11:35 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: Then a change in the image would not matter
11:35 <joda_bo1> but it does
11:35 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: also a single layer has only one background ?
11:36 <wrtlprnft> it's two layers
11:36 <wrtlprnft> give me a sec
11:37 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: it's not using two layers AFAIK
11:37 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:37 <wrtlprnft> it is
11:38 <n54> joda_bo1: want me to check in seamonkey (windows) and konqueror and/or firfox (linux) ?
11:38 <joda_bo1> n54: go ahead, I checked IE and firefox
11:38 <n54> ok
11:38 <joda_bo1> (windows)
11:38 <joda_bo1> What seamonkey anyway ?
11:38 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as jod1
11:38 -!- jod1 is now known as joda_bot
11:39 <joda_bot> hm, I only got the message "your nick start with a j ..." once I was named joda_bot is that correct ?
11:40 <n54> http://www.mozilla.org/firefox looked completely the same in both to me, what am I looking for?
11:40 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:40 <n54> seamonkey is the continuation of the mozilla suite
11:40 <joda_bot> See the "download" buttons on my server
11:40 <n54> ok
11:41 <joda_bot> AFAIK they use a fine tuned PNG image hack, but I might be seeing things .. if wrtl is right ;)
11:42 <n54> uh that looks weird on both
11:42 * n54 scrolls up
11:44 <joda_bot> n54: well it's not supposed to but it does
11:45 <n54> have you looked at the source for the firefox site and compared?
11:45 <joda_bot> n54: I can do better ... wait
11:45 <n54> oh script I see
11:45 <joda_bot> ah right, that might be my mistake wait
11:46 <n54> since they use javascript you might need to do the same
11:48 <n54> or perhaps it's a lot more simpler than that, you just want a mouseover don't you?
11:54 <joda_bot> aw, wrtlprnft is right ;)
11:54 <joda_bot> I messed it up
11:54 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
11:54 <joda_bot> works now
11:55 <n54> #message wrtlpr* yes it does and yours start with wrtlpr ;)
11:55 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
11:57 <joda_bot> #message wrtl* works and you're right ... it's a double background thing
11:57 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
11:59 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/fftest.htm
11:59 <wrtlprnft> that's what i came up with
11:59 <wrtlprnft> notice the hover effect ;)
11:59 <wrtlprnft> all one image
12:01 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
12:01 <n54> ah but yours don't affect the text color wrtlprnft, minor detail perhaps
12:01 <joda_bot> see my old link after you pointed it out, I was able to fix it ;)
12:01 <wrtlprnft> yeah
12:02 <n54> looks good now but what about fixing the grey one?
12:02 <wrtlprnft> i would have been faster, but on this windows machine i only have a sucky ssh connection home
12:02 <wrtlprnft> grey one?
12:02 <joda_bot> huh ? http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
12:02 <n54> on joda's page
12:02 <joda_bot> They all should be fixed, refresh
12:02 <spidey> lol,i think someone's inlove with z-man
12:03 <n54> *refreshes again* ok now
12:03 <n54> on both browsers (seamonkey -win & ff -linux)
12:04 <wrtlprnft> but I'd alter the box a bit
12:04 <wrtlprnft> make ita different color or something
12:04 <wrtlprnft> there's too many pages that look exactly like copies of mozilla.org
12:04 <n54> :)
12:05 <n54> make it a bubble instead, too much squarish stuff on the net :)
12:05 <joda_bot> ;)
12:06 * wrtlprnft doesn't like rounded edges all that much
12:06 <wrtlprnft> basically a waste of space
12:07 <wrtlprnft> my race server works now i guess?
12:07 <wrtlprnft> there's people online
12:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: well it has the advantage of ppl recognizing it easier
12:09 <wrtlprnft> g2g
12:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: not sure I really have to change that but I want a red colored one for aa beta
12:10 <n54> cya wrtlprnft
12:12 <spidey> who's qwerty?
12:13 <n54> a keyboard layout ;P
12:14 <spidey> ?
12:16 <n54> qwerty is the name of a keyboard layout... the most common one in fact *bets spidey has qwerty*
12:25 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:30 <joda_bot> qwerttz
12:30 <joda_bot> heh, notice the doulbe t ;)
12:31 <spidey> is there a tron playing called qwerty?
12:31 <joda_bot> I guess I can remember someone using that name yes
12:31 <joda_bot> but can't recall any details
12:31 <spidey> does he help z-man admin the cvs server?
12:32 <n54> don't know but I would be doubtful
12:34 <n54> probably just another **** namecalling :)
12:34 <z-man> I don't know anyone named qwerty
12:34 <n54> namedropping I mean
12:34 <spidey> didn't think so
12:34 <spidey> lol
12:42 <n54> #message Luci* came across the classic briefly mentioned the other week and so in case you don't have it here it is: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/
12:42 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
12:55 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft I can't delete individual messages, or rather, I won't because they're kind of a pain to find.
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft I'd rather see the plugin let me do it from right here :)
12:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
13:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
13:04 <Lucifer_arma> ? no note waiting for me? *confused*
13:04 <n54> guess you got Luci* :)
13:08 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: can you test floor_blue 0.7 floor_* 0.5 ?
13:08 <joda_bot> I want to know if it's ok for you, because this extremly dark floor kind of disappears ;) ... so far I was ok with this floor
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13:19 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:21 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: heh, you know python way better than me. I don't even know where to put the h, as in phyton :P
13:21 <wrtl_web_broken> anyways, I'll try renaming myself to phil once in a while, I'm sure it will work one day
13:30 <joda_bot> wrtl_web_broken: what for ?
13:30 <joda_bot> #notes
13:30 <armabot> joda_bot: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
13:30 <joda_bot> ah I see ;)
13:44 -!- [Jonne] [n=chatzill@248.24-201-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #armagetron
13:47 -!- [Jonne] [n=chatzill@248.24-201-80.adsl.skynet.be] has left #armagetron []
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I didn't get any messages, the only reason I knew wrtlprnft tried to leave a message for me was because it was still in my backlog when I got home
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> my previous disconnection was a 2 year old that likes to push the button on the front of my laptop that disables the wifi card, and I was at school when it happened
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> so it was still there for me to see even if I was disconnected
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer_arma this is a test
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
13:57 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
14:09 <n54> ah ok - heh I kind of think that's a very cool 2 year old ^^ anyway it wasn't all that important: (19:44:20) n54: #message Luci* came across the classic briefly mentioned the other week and so in case you don't have it here it is: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/
14:17 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["cya, or actually i never saw you"]
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> thanks, bookmarked
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> I've read it before, obviously, but I'm happy to have a link for it. :)
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> and he is a very cool 2 year old :)
14:36 <n54> np I bookmarked it myself as I think I must have forgotten the last time I saw it
14:36 <n54> :)
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> he's going to be 3 in August. And he's started the, uh, diarrhea of the mouth that accompanies being 3 already
14:37 <n54> talking?
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> he's learning at least 1 new word a day, even though he can only squeeze out 1 syllable for each word
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, talking
14:37 <n54> cool
14:37 <Lucifer_arma> he already understands plenty, understanding != talking, but he's about half a year or so ahead of the game
14:38 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
14:38 <Lucifer_arma> Hi there, Vanhomosexuals
14:38 <n54> ok (I don't have much knowledge about kids & development rates etc.)
14:39 * Lucifer_arma actually thought the Vangayes joke was funny
14:39 <Vanhayes> creative luci
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> ah. About 3-3.5 kids do most of their learning to talk and will pick up at the peak up to 60 new words a day that they can say
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> after that they'll be sorta anchored in whatever language they learned, but before that they can learn any language. So now's your chance to teach him norwegian!
14:40 <n54> lol no
14:40 <Lucifer_arma> but they go literally from 2 words to fair fluency in only 6 months
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> after that, they have figured out the motor skills for talking and pick up new words pretty much as soon as they understand them, but the pace drops off
14:42 <n54> ok
14:42 <Lucifer_arma> I think that's probably mostly because after you have a good kernel of the language, learning new words isn't terribly necessary, so the next big development in language is attached to reading
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> the alphabet and some reading is taught here in kindergarten at 5. At 6, they're expected to read at 60 words per minute when they finish first grade.
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> My daughter is reading at 125 words per minute. Give her a bit more and she'll be able to read faster than I can type! :)
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> Most kids are 7 when they finish first grade, but 6 when they start.
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> no idea how that compares to the same school level anywhere else, sorry.
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> my daughter just finished first grade :)
14:45 <n54> it changed about 18 years ago here iirc, they now start at 6
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> kindergarten is considered optional here, but most kids go to it anyway
14:45 * n54 can't remember if his half-brother started at 6 or 7
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> kindergarten is primarily state-sponsored daycare, heh. but they teach a lot of useful stuff and give you a chance to establish study habits, I suppose.
14:46 <Lucifer_arma> or vice versa, they give you a chance to establish schooling habits that don't include studying
14:47 * Lucifer_arma isn't terribly impressed with his calc 2 class so far.
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> within 5 minutes of the class ending, 1 person asked me to photocopy parts of my book and I heard another person asking someone else the same thing
14:47 <n54> I'm all for it as long as it works (and afaik the us system at that level is better than over here)
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> talked to my teacher and he had someone ask him in the same time period himself
14:47 <n54> here we've got people moaning about letting "children be children" as if they wont be anyway
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> the us system is really really good, imo, until about the 6th grade. It drops off after that and winds up really bad for high school
14:48 <n54> then picks up again at university level imo
14:48 <n54> what was that about your book? *didn't get it*
14:48 <Lucifer_arma> I dont' have any idea how it compares at that level.
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> textbook for calc 2, one of the kids in my class wanted to photocopy all of the early chapters
14:49 <n54> depends a lot from uni to uni of course but in general I'd say it's better than norway at least
14:49 <n54> they don't have it themselves?
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> I told him he could photocopy what he needed for the homework assigned so he could wait to buy his own book if he needed to
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> well, here's why I was surprised. Ok, to get into calc 2, you need a C or better in calc 1, right?
14:50 <n54> ok
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> the textbook for calc 1 is the same as for calc 2, you only cover half the book.
14:50 <n54> heh
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> So if he's in calc 2, where's his textbook from calc 1?
14:50 <n54> I might be a slacker but at least I get the books... ^^
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it's too old, they did switch editions a couple of semesters ago
14:50 <n54> perhaps
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> and he said he had an older edition. Personally, in his situation I'd try to dicker with the teacher and use the older book.
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> but, heh, I know this teacher, this is the 3rd course I'm taking from him. And I'm not shy with teachers anyway.
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I was surprised to see that much "don't have the book yet" going on for a class you had to have the book just to satisfy the prerequisite
14:52 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:52 <n54> just don't annoy them and it's all ok ^^ I hated two kinds: 1. the ones who would never speak up/participate 2. the ones who treated you as a dog or something, oh wait make it three: 3. the two loonies too lol
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> of course, there's another version of the book that includes all the material studied in calc 3. Turns out it's about a $30 savings if you buy that book and you intend to go that far in calculus (I have to go to calc 4, so I'll still need another calc textbook eventually)
14:52 <n54> yup I can see that
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I don't mind the ones that don't speak up/participate, until they start whining about not getting it
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> there's a girl in my calc 2 class who obviously took the teacher's *other* calc 1 class last semester that's really annoying.
14:54 <n54> ah I think I know the type, I usually escaped those
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> She's the kind of student I try really hard not to be. The teacher asks a question and she answers it immediately, usually jumping ahead a little bit of the questions he's obviously about to ask.
14:54 <Lucifer_arma> we're in the calc 1 review period right now, starting new material tomorrow. So naturally she's spouting off nearly every time he opens his mouth.
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> I find that annoying because there are other kids in the class who a) have a longer interval since they took calc 1 or b) took it from a different teacher
14:55 <Lucifer_arma> and really need this review, but she's basically throwing it away for them.
14:55 <n54> if I had a student like that I would actually take them aside and tell them in private to let others get a chance - with a positive spin
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, he's getting visibly annoyed by it (to me, at least, after 2 classes i think I can read him pretty well). He's either expecting her to have trouble and naturally quiet down later,
14:56 <Lucifer_arma> or he's going to talk to her. No need for me to worry about it too much, it's only the second day of classes.
14:56 <n54> it's only been a day or two right? teachers are patient :)
14:56 <n54> ah yeah
14:57 <Lucifer_arma> still, calc 2 is a prerequisite for almost anything worthwhile ;) , and it weeds out a lot of students, so I'm probably going to encounter her again
14:58 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice to put a cork in it now so I don't have to deal with it later...
14:58 <n54> lol, nah just ignore it for now - not worth spending energy on so soon
14:58 <n54> it won't last long
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> well, if the teacher doesn't talk to her, or she doesn't slow down with the new material, I might have to do something so I can learn the stuff. :) But yeah, blow it off for now is the best policy
14:59 <n54> she's just carried away, don't be too harsh
14:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'll know sometime next week if I should care terribly
15:00 <n54> yup and then first try mentioning it to the teacher because a small nudge might be all it takes
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, the teacher finally expressed confidence that he'll be seeing me in calc 4. :) For the first time, he was a little worried during calc 1, but now that I've made it into calc 2, he's confident.
15:00 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> That's worth something, eh? ;)
15:00 <n54> yup :)
15:01 * Lucifer_arma considers it a great stroke of luck that this particular teacher who teaches so much of the calculus at this school happened to be teaching trig two semesters ago
15:01 <n54> how so?
15:01 <Lucifer_arma> he doesn't normally teach it because it's only a 3 hour course and he gets paid based on how many credit hours he teaches
15:01 <Lucifer_arma> he's also the calc 4 teacher. The one and only. They have at least one other who's got credentials, but this guy teaches it.
15:01 <n54> but why is it good for you?
15:02 <n54> you had him two years ago in trig?
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> well, first because he's a cool guy that doesn't sweat prerequisites terribly. I skipped precalculus to take calc 1 with him.
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> 2 semesters ago, almost a year ago
15:02 <n54> oh ok
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> second because he's a good teacher, and breaking in a new teacher is really a pain. There are probably more bad math teachers than good,
15:03 <n54> sorry makes perfect sense, I'm just very slow these days (lots of stuff happening)
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> even though most are adequate.
15:03 <n54> I've had great luck with math teachers myself so I can't say
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> so it looks like I'll be able to finish up the calc sequence with him. He usually teaches calc 3, and I'll have that in the fall.
15:04 <n54> ok :)
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have to say I've had great luck with math teachers too. :)
15:04 * n54 is still abysmal at it to no fault of theirs
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> also, I won't say he's more lenient with me, not to a point of endangering my learning environment, but having a good relationship with your teacher can have a positive influence on your grade
15:05 * Lucifer_arma reminds n54 that he still doesn't believe he got an A in calc 1
15:05 <n54> it's on paper right?
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> it's on paper, it's official and all that.
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> my transcript still reads like a babbling baby "aaaaaaaa"
15:05 <n54> it was like one point differnce or something, I would have done the same
15:06 <Lucifer_arma> I like to think that if you were my math teacher, I'd have a good relationship with my math teacher. :)
15:06 <n54> teachers look for reasons to grade pupils well, it's natural and perfectly ok as long as it isn't overused
15:07 <n54> lol I'd suck as a math teacher ^^
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> but I guarantee he wouldn't have done the same for the kid the only showed up one day a week, or whatever, even if he earned the same numbers I did
15:07 <n54> but it is one reason why third-party testing can be a good idea
15:07 <Lucifer_arma> I disagree. I'm very much opposed to removing the human element from grading
15:08 <n54> yup, but it's not about the not-showing-up it's about a lack of "non-empirical" data on what that kid actually understands
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> you can have a bad semester of testing but still learn the material to a certain level, and I'd prefer to know my teacher is going to grade me on that.
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, and that's where the relationship kicks in.
15:08 <n54> "can be" not "always is" :)
15:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, and that's where the relationship kicks in. :)
15:08 * Lucifer_arma tries to have good relationships with teachers.
15:09 <wrtlprnft> #notes
15:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, phil*, and wrtlprnft.
15:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:09 * Lucifer_arma tries to have good relationships with people in general, but considers teachers a high priority relationship when in school.
15:09 <n54> just don't cross into sucking up (not that I think you'll do) because that's really... uncomfortable?
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh. I'm a born heckler, I just don't see myself kissing ass.
15:10 <n54> ok heckling is not so good either ;P
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, this math teacher seems to be immune to ass-kissing, which I consider to be a positive trait in anybody
15:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, I try to keep my heckling under control. :) I am there to learn something, after all.
15:11 <n54> most people hate being "ass-kissed" (yuck) at least all teachers I've worked with (and I) were like that
15:11 <n54> it really is uncomfortable and often it's most convenient to completely ignore it
15:11 <n54> hehe ok :)
15:11 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't yet seen any teacher in this school that was susceptible to it.
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> I won't say they're not there, but I have't see it. My experience with the teachers here has so far been very good. Only one teacher I thought was bad,
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> but tht remains to be seen when I retake that class in the fall.
15:12 <n54> it's simple really, it feels like an attack on your profession/character, might sound strange but it really does
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> but all the rest have not just been good, they've been overwhelmingly good.
15:12 <n54> that's good :)
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> well it is, it's bribing only without money. It's bribing in a much sicker, more demented way. "I'll make you not feel like a turd"
15:13 <n54> yup
15:13 <n54> meh now you've got me thinking of past pupils :S
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> I tend to think that being a professional teacher is incompatible with low self-esteem, but I guess that depends on your definition of "professional"
15:14 <n54> not so sure about that one, depends on what measure you use for self-esteem too
15:15 <n54> but not _as_ a teacher of course, that just wont do
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> that's true. A teacher needs at least enough self-confidence to do the public speaking, and to be confident that they know what they're talking about
15:15 <n54> yup
15:15 <n54> and they better not be perfectionists... that got me
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> I'll take a perfectionist, provided they teach enough so that a reasonably talented person can achieve it
15:16 <n54> or at least not impatient perfectionists (towards oneself that is) ^^
15:16 * Lucifer_arma has had several of his teachers tell him to relax, his work was good enough, heh
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> what I can't stand is the perfectionist that expects you to read his mind to figure out what he really wants from you
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> (my chemistry teacher)
15:17 <n54> I worked way too much when I was a teacher, did too much at once, then again I've sort of learned from it
15:17 <n54> gah that sounds impossible
15:18 <n54> or just plain awful (the chem teacher)
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> in 2 weeks, 3 max, there's probably going to be 10 or less people in my calc class, I think.
15:18 <n54> might go even quicker
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> I think he was awful, but like I say, we won't know for sure if it was the teacher or the student until I retake the class
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> and taking it a third time is not an option, they charge triple, and it would stall me, so I'll have to take whatever passing grade I can get
15:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAC34.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
15:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's around 30 in my calc class right now
15:19 <n54> yikes
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> I think they're trying to put the smackdown on kids that keep enrolling as an excuse to mooch off their parents, or becuase their parents will throw them out if they quit school,
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> but will keep throwing good money after bad hoping the kid will actually go to class
15:20 <Lucifer_arma> and the way to get parents' attention seems to be by hitting their wallet
15:20 <n54> ok
15:21 <n54> no way of switching to get another teacher?
15:21 <n54> I mean teachers aren't neccessarily good people, some are just assholes who don't care at all
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> not after the class gets under way. You have 3 days, I think, to make a switch, which often isn't enough time to figure out if the teacher's good
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> well I haven't been idle, since dropping the chem class I've been feeling out the other chem teachers, and I think I'll be fine.
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's a semester and a half's time so far, and the rest of summer to go before I have to move on it.
15:22 <n54> I'd think about perhaps trying to make a switch if you're already dubious about him, see if you can find/hear what other students experiences are
15:22 <n54> ah ok
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the chem thing happened last fall
15:23 <n54> and sometimes it's simply pure chemistry ^^
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> it could be the student who's at fault here. :)
15:24 <n54> always possible :)
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> but the other kids I talked to were complaining about how anal their teachers were, and I've got to say at least they had clear standards on what they were expected to do
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> my chem teacher was evasive whenever you tried to pin him down, otherwise he'd say "just do what I do and you won't make any mistakes". Oh yeah? what the fuck am I supposed to do if what you do doesn't work?
15:25 <n54> well anal can be good (talk about inviting flames - yikes lol), depends on what they actually mean...
15:25 <n54> yeah exactly
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, I like this math teacher in part because he's anal about a few things and he really challenges me. So I think I'm learning the material better than I would from a different teacher.
15:26 <n54> structure and disciplin can be good things, as lontg as one pays attention
15:26 <n54> yup
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah. the other end that I've always considered important is knowing when discipline is needed and when it's not. He doesn't impose any particular method of organizing work,
15:27 <n54> yup
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> but if what you do is too disorganized to read or keeps giving you the wrong answer, he'll say something.
15:28 <n54> teaching is probably just two things really; 1. knowledge 2. manipulation to imbed knowledge
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, you like Socrates :)
15:28 * Lucifer_arma never was much a fan of Plato
15:28 <n54> 2 is usually referred to as pedagogics ^^
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh. :)
15:28 <n54> I prefer Sokrates over Plato yes, but...
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> my teacher uses the socratic method, or at least what I understand of it.
15:29 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's likely Socrates was Plato's fictional character
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> not known, just likely.
15:29 <n54> some are excellent at it
15:29 <n54> ahh as a former philosophy student I have to disagree about Sokrates being PLato's fiction :)
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'll bet he asks 9 times as many questions as he gives facts, and it seems to be working well
15:30 <Lucifer_arma> well, disagree all you want, I don't care either way. :) As a fictional character or as a real man, he still deserves a punch in the nose.
15:30 <n54> heh why+
15:30 <n54> remember that they were all loonies anyway ^^
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm. mostly because he assumed too much, imo. He took things like honor and dignity as postulates without considering the meaning of the things
15:31 <n54> interesting loonies of course but still :)
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> and then proceeded to argue using very underhanded tactics that only served to discredit his opponent but not actually convey any useful thought
15:31 <n54> they /everyone) all do that
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> I can't see having a serious discussion about anything that depends on honor and dignity without first determining what those things are
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> build from basic principles. I suppose he thought he was doing that, so it's likely just a difference in point of view.
15:32 <n54> I can't remember what the word is in english - the opposite of vice
15:32 <Lucifer_arma> but if he was real, he hurt a few people on the way. I don't know that he deserved his death, but he should've been nicer.
15:33 <n54> (and now I can't remember it in norwegian either gah)
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> virtue
15:33 <n54> yeah
15:33 <n54> that was the word :)
15:34 <n54> the concepts and properties of virtue was of course a source for debate
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> I'd equate Socrates to Joe McCarthy, actually. It's probably not the best comparison that could be made, but the two are very similar, imo.
15:34 <n54> there is quite a lot of material on it
15:34 <n54> I strongly disagree
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> yes there is. At least Aristotle tried to work that out. :)
15:34 <n54> McCarthy was a fraud
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> the differences of importance between Socrates and McCarthy have to do with true belief, Socrates had it and Mccarthy didn't
15:35 <n54> that's pretty important in my book
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> so you can't really say they believed different things, switch it around and McCarthy would've advocated Socrates's cause
15:35 <n54> and I also have a sneaking suspicion you might be mixing socrates in with the stoics
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> McCarthy also gained power through the political system. iirc, Socrates didn't.
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> I might be. I did read a lot of Plato, though.
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> and very little else. I read Zen and the Art of motorcycle maintenance as my intro to philosophy :)
15:36 <n54> and anyway both of them (socrates and plato) can be read differently - some read plato as a proto-fascist
15:36 <n54> (I don't)
15:37 <n54> hehe ok I hate that book :)
15:37 <n54> *refuses to read it* :)
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that I fundamentally disagree with the guys. The problem I have with the writing is that it builds on complex principles taken for granted.
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> Without a strong foundation, or at least an understanding of what their foundation was, I have a hard time figuring out my own position relative to theirs
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> And I didn't read any Plato that didn't include Socrates, so I don't really know if he got much different
15:38 <n54> ah well 1. not that granted really 2. the culture of ancient greece plays a big role, some of this stuff was different and more... familiar
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is a definite factor that I'm not in the culture of ancient greece, nor do I know much about it.
15:39 <Lucifer_arma> so why do you hate Zen and the (rest)?
15:40 <n54> translation and incompleteness plays roles as well of course
15:41 <n54> just because it makes me think of people who... hmm... doesn't want to take zen seriously? it's judgemental, harsh, and of course often wrong - but I do agree with the idea behind the book, somewhat, somehow
15:41 <n54> but I must check on the dinner brb
15:42 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
15:47 <n54> back until the noodles boil over ^^
15:47 <n54> anyway it's probably better put as me getting somewhat anti-new age, and possibly quite unfair
15:49 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't find the book new-age, or at least what I consider new-age (occult, astrology, etc).
15:49 * n54 likes zen quite a lot and bushido code is interesting too
15:49 <n54> yeah it's probably just me associating the book to strongly with people I've met
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> and he was pretty harsh about stuff, but I didn't see any reason for him to be nice either
15:50 <n54> too*
15:50 <n54> the author?
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> granted, I don't have any experience of my own to support his, but neither do I have any to contradict his
15:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
15:50 <n54> ok
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> seemed to me that most of the book centered on his belief in the use of rhetoric to achieve understanding and his anger and frustration that the philosophical community at large relegates rhetoric to some corner
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> where it's never taken out, and dialectic is used primarily
15:51 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> and I found his criticisms of the dialectic, as based on Socrates's dialogs, to be completely fitting
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> that's the part about tactics vs truth. The "truth" found through dialectic seems to have more to do with good arguing tactics than actual real truth
15:53 <n54> well it's not much news really
15:53 <n54> rhetoric has it's bad sides too
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> now that I'm quite a few years from when I read it, I'm having a hard time understanding his Quality philosophy, or at least the relationship of the philosophy itself to the word quality
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> rhetoric does have its bad sides, but it seems like the best way to construct a complete thought and present it completely
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> dialog follows from there
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> the two should work hand in hand, imo
15:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's your basic write/discuss/revise loop
15:54 <n54> actually if you want to know what's used for such tasks in the real world today you always end up with language logics, that stuff probably isn't known to many
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's where "If you believe one thing, you should also admit to the opposite of that thing existing"?
15:55 <n54> oops brb
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> because in language the two things are opposites, even though in reality there's no relation?
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> bring me some noodles when you get back, I'm hungry
16:03 <n54> hehe *serves chop suey with bacon cubes, striped (?) yellow, red & green peppers, cubed cucumber and noodles* ^^ (haven't thrown in cucumber before, not sure I gave the vegies enough frying time this time around)
16:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:04 <n54> what's funny is the guys at 7-11 thinks I'm living off soda and such* :)
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> "branching from the trunk (gas) to the stabilizer (liquid) would be "condensating". Branching from the stabilizer to a relase branch (solid) would be "freezing". Branching a release branch directly from the trunk (gas to solid), should it ever be done, would be "sublimizing". Starting an experimental branch (gas to plasma) would be "ionizing". Finally merging an experimental branch to the trunk would be "recombining". " -- z-man
16:07 <Lucifer_arma> :)
--- Log opened Wed May 31 16:11:06 2006
16:11 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:11 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
16:11 <n54> and it's always better to be wrong with an expert than a fool ^^
16:11 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> <--- fool
16:11 <n54> oooh it's both ways
16:11 <n54> nah
16:11 <n54> at least not more than the rest of us ^^
16:12 * n54 loves the "concept" of vacuum ablation, I mean the tought itself is cool (and of course a practical pain in the neck I suppose)
16:12 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:13 <nemostultae> hmm, this is strange. My FPS is better when I use the Bitstream font.
16:13 <n54> the new one? or compared to other new ones? & hi :)
16:13 <wrtlprnft> better than what?
16:14 <wrtlprnft> the old system or our Armagetron.ttf?
16:14 <nemostultae> compared to Armagetronad.ttf
16:14 <wrtlprnft> hmm
16:14 <wrtlprnft> the code is doing about the same thing
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> derivative of tan is sec^2, right?
16:14 <n54> you got me Luci ^^
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> maybe his bitstream font is simpler somehow, so it's not working freetype so much
16:14 <wrtlprnft> it is still doing all that complex stuff with the fixedwidth
16:14 <wrtlprnft> font
16:15 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_derivatives
16:15 <wrtlprnft> yes, you're right
16:15 <Lucifer_arma> yay, I'm right :)
16:15 * Lucifer_arma didn't memorize them in calc 1 like he ws supposed to.
16:17 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know other graphical svn clients than kdesvn and esvn?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> more like cervisia
16:17 <wrtlprnft> no IDEs and stuff
16:18 <wrtlprnft> kdesvn looked promising first, but it lacks some of cervisia's features i used all the time :(
16:18 <wrtlprnft> and esvn is kinda weird in useage
16:18 <Lucifer_arma> does konqueror have an svn plugin?
16:18 <wrtlprnft> that's ksvn, yes
16:18 <wrtlprnft> but I don't want a konqueror plugin that much, too much overhead for me
16:19 <wrtlprnft> and there's no ebuild for it
16:22 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-050-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> haha, I just realized I use the product rule in place of the quotient rule nearly every time
16:23 * Lucifer_arma wonders if he still gets the right answer when he does that
16:25 <n54> looking at the formulas I would be a bit surprised if you did :)
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, when you simplify I imagine you'll come up with statements that are equal
16:28 <n54> hmm + becomes - not sure how that would happen
16:28 <wrtlprnft> http://u1.flurl.com/1148926506/2006/May/29/FLURL-dot-com-142986-billard.wmv
16:28 <n54> perhaps the !=0 thing
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> one of these days I'll try to piece it together and find out for sure
16:38 <n54> they should be connected in some way of course but since wikipedia doesn't dvelve into that...
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure they're the same, just that some situations are easier to work with one rule and same for the other
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> at least, I haven't lost any points for that yet :)
16:42 <n54> :)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> y = ln( x^2 e^x )
16:43 <n54> heh that chop suey sauce makes everything taste superb, going to try only vegetables and noodles with it next time :D
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, looks like a chain rule and a product rule
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> (except that obviously I can use those log laws to simplify it dramatically)
16:44 <n54> hmm is there supposed to be something between 2 and e in that one?
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> no, multiplication
16:45 <n54> ah ok
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> ln(AB) = lnA + lnB right?
16:45 <n54> *hides* don't know :)
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> :)
16:46 <n54> actually... I think so on second thought
16:47 <n54> but I would take that with one metric tonne of salt hehe
16:48 * Lucifer_arma is very confident, or there wouldn't be any point to logarithmic differentiation
16:51 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_derivative seems to say so
16:51 <n54> leibniz rule?
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, we call that the product rule :)
16:53 <n54> yeah it seems there's loads of leibniz rules so it makes sense to call it something more direct
16:53 * n54 is currently wading through sigmas lol
16:57 <n54> but yeah you're right
16:57 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_logarithm
16:59 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
17:14 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:15 <Self_Destructo> #notes
17:15 <armabot> Self_Destructo: I currently have notes waiting for a*, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== More than 100000 total errors detected. I'm not reporting any more.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Final error counts will be inaccurate. Go fix your program!
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Rerun with --error-limit=no to disable this cutoff. Note
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== that errors may occur in your program without prior warning from
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ==9272== Valgrind, because errors are no longer being displayed.
17:17 <wrtlprnft> trying to figure out the memory leak, and i get that, without me even having entered the game
17:17 <wrtlprnft> all errors in my opengl driver... i guess it sucks
17:18 <n54> yikes
17:19 <n54> take one step back?
17:19 <n54> & hi SD :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== LEAK SUMMARY:
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== definitely lost: 198,709 bytes in 29 blocks.
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ==13895== possibly lost: 90,336 bytes in 7 blocks.
17:21 <wrtlprnft> wow
17:22 <wrtlprnft> now, key question: where does it tell me where that memory was allocated
17:22 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> there we go, found it :)
17:29 <spidey> sd
17:33 <n54> #g 49 sek to nok
17:33 <armabot> n54: 49 Swedish kronor = 41.3339692 Norwegian kroner
17:33 <n54> huh still more expensive in sweden than in norway, must be a first :o
17:35 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-036-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
17:35 <Lucifer_arma> I would expect norwegien hookers to be more expensive in sweden than in norway
17:35 <n54> heh no idea
17:36 <n54> according to the news they're all from nigeria anyhow :S it's like a kind of weird invasion all up through europe they say
17:38 <n54> or perhaps it has stopped by now, might be last summer this made headlines
17:39 <n54> have been*
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g 9^3
17:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 9^3 = 729
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g sqrt(729)
17:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: sqrt(729) = 27
17:39 <n54> that's peculiar
17:39 <n54> does it hold true for all numbers?
17:40 <n54> #g 8^3
17:40 <armabot> n54: 8^3 = 512
17:41 <n54> #g sqrt(512)
17:41 <armabot> n54: sqrt(512) = 22.627417
17:41 <n54> :P
17:41 <n54> #g 18^6
17:41 <armabot> n54: 18^6 = 34,012,224
17:42 <n54> #g sqrt(34012224)
17:42 <armabot> n54: sqrt(34,012,224) = 5,832
17:42 <n54> :8
17:48 <n54> btw I <3 hypertetrahedrons http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Simplex.html
17:48 -!- bashusr [n=bashusr@c-71-192-194-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
17:48 <bashusr> wrtlprnft: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> Vanhayes: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> spidey: hi!
17:49 <bashusr> wow
17:49 <bashusr> all these cool people
17:50 <Vanhayes> hey bashur
17:51 <bashusr> dude
17:51 <bashusr> we got nick complete!
17:51 <bashusr> why can't ANYone spell my name right.
17:51 <bashusr> :-/
17:51 <bashusr> bashuSr
17:51 <Vanhayes> why the usr tho?
17:51 <bashusr> /bin/bash usr
17:51 <bashusr> /usr
17:52 <Vanhayes> makes sense
17:52 <Vanhayes> a little anyway
17:52 <spidey> hey bashur
17:52 <bashusr> !finger bashusr|grep Shell
17:53 <bashusr> Directory: /home/bashusr Shell: /bin/bash
17:53 <bashusr> /bin/sh: bashusr: command not found
17:53 <bashusr> hmmm
17:53 <bashusr> Directory: /home/bashusr Shell: /bin/bash
17:53 <bashusr> i need to add an awk/sed command to that...
17:54 <Self_Destructo> spidey: i'm here now
17:54 <spidey> w
17:54 <spidey> b
17:54 <Self_Destructo> had to run to work because i left my wallet in the company truck
17:54 <wrtlprnft> hi bashusr
17:54 <Self_Destructo> ty
17:54 <spidey> heh
17:54 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: many people here, but at any given time most people idle
17:54 <Self_Destructo> what did you want?
17:55 <spidey> i forgot :/
17:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, and what's /bin/bash /usr supposed to do?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> what about calling yourself binbash?
17:57 <bashusr> i know
17:57 <bashusr> lol
17:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, and no, i never even really noticed whether it was bashusr or bashuser
17:57 <wrtlprnft> that's why you have tab completion bashusr bashusr bashusr bashusr
17:57 <bashusr> i know the idles of irc
17:57 <bashusr> wrtlprnft: yes
17:57 <bashusr> i know!
17:58 <bashusr> but Vanhayes doesn't use tab complete!
17:58 <Vanhayes> ya is it spelt bashusr in tron?
17:58 <bashusr> he misspelled my name!
17:58 <bashusr> yes!
17:58 <bashusr> bashusr bashusr bashusr
17:58 <Vanhayes> never really noticed
17:58 <wrtlprnft> Vnahaiess: test
17:58 <Vanhayes> lol
17:58 <bashusr> wha?
17:58 <bashusr> what are you testing?
17:58 <wrtlprnft> nothing
17:59 <wrtlprnft> but i misspelled his name :P
17:59 <wrtlprnft> (poor people that have to write my name without years of experience or tab completion :P )
17:59 <bashusr> /bin/bash /usr doesn't do anything
17:59 <bashusr> yeah
17:59 <bashusr> what's with your name?
17:59 <bashusr> it got no vowels!
17:59 <wrtlprnft> i know
17:59 <bashusr> i'm a bash user
17:59 <Vanhayes> its still word tho right?
18:00 <wrtlprnft> but not too many people can spell it right
18:00 <bashusr> i don't
18:00 <bashusr> i just ignore it
18:00 <bashusr> and just wrt
18:00 * wrtlprnft is a zsh user
18:00 <bashusr> !
18:00 <bashusr> DIE!
18:00 <bashusr> :)
18:00 <bashusr> jk
18:00 <wrtlprnft> where is that vim/emacs thing?
18:00 <bashusr> VIM!
18:00 <bashusr> die emacs!
18:01 * wrtlprnft loves vim too
18:01 <bashusr> vim+screen+irssi == all i need in life
18:01 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:01 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-071-070-204-248.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
18:01 <wrtlprnft> similar to me, i use all 3
18:01 <wrtlprnft> but i prefer gvim if a GUI is there :)
18:01 <bashusr> so.
18:01 <bashusr> what's with the nick?
18:02 <bashusr> 19:02:04 up 3 days, 10:05, 3 users, load average: 0.07, 0.05, 0.00
18:02 <bashusr> ew
18:02 <bashusr> :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> bah
18:02 <wrtlprnft> 01:01:54 up 40 days, 1:07, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.00
18:02 <bashusr> that's nothing!
18:02 <bashusr> i made it to 90!
18:02 <bashusr> never any higher though :(
18:02 <wrtlprnft> i once made it to over 100
18:03 <bashusr> yum
18:03 <wrtlprnft> that was around new year
18:03 <wrtlprnft> then i had a series of ram-related crashes (i think ram)
18:03 <bashusr> lol
18:03 <bashusr> my server crashed...
18:03 <bashusr> because i was walking around with it
18:03 <bashusr> and i probably shook the harddrive
18:03 <bashusr> tand everything just locked up
18:04 <wrtlprnft> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501&cid=1361469
18:04 <wrtlprnft> that one i meant
18:04 <wrtlprnft> or a variation of it, but i couldn't find the place i read it first
18:06 <bashusr> ll
18:07 <bashusr> lol
18:07 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> that's one reason to prefer vim
18:07 <wrtlprnft> basically everyone who says vi means vim
18:07 <wrtlprnft> but emacs is too diverted
18:07 <spidey> bashusr i hate you
18:07 <bashusr> huh?
18:07 <spidey> 19:07:50 up 1 day, 2:23, 1 user, load average: 2.42, 1.64, 1.18
18:07 <bashusr> lol
18:07 <spidey> my loads hardly ever go lower :/
18:08 <spidey> don't version me :p
18:08 <bashusr> what?!
18:08 <bashusr> why?
18:08 <spidey> it's not nice xD
18:08 <bashusr> you got a fast CPU
18:08 <spidey> yea
18:08 <bashusr> processor : 0
18:08 <bashusr> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
18:08 <bashusr> cpu family : 6
18:08 <bashusr> model : 5
18:08 <bashusr> model name : Pentium II (Deschutes)
18:08 <spidey> 2.4ghz celeron
18:08 <bashusr> stepping : 2
18:08 <bashusr> cpu MHz : 398.860
18:08 <bashusr> cache size : 512 KB
18:08 <bashusr> fdiv_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> hlt_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> f00f_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> coma_bug : no
18:08 <bashusr> fpu : yes
18:08 <bashusr> fpu_exception : yes
18:08 <bashusr> cpuid level : 2
18:08 <bashusr> wp : yes
18:09 <bashusr> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr
18:09 <bashusr> bogomips : 799.06
18:09 <bashusr> oops
18:09 <bashusr> i got a 400Mhz box :_P
18:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
18:09 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
18:09 <spidey> processor : 0
18:09 <spidey> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
18:09 <spidey> cpu family : 15
18:09 <spidey> model : 2
18:09 <spidey> model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
18:09 <wrtlprnft> my server is like 0.5MHz faster than yours bashusr
18:09 <spidey> stepping : 9
18:09 <spidey> cpu MHz : 2393.495
18:09 <spidey> cache size : 128 KB
18:09 <wrtlprnft> Linux laptop 2.6.16.18 #1 PREEMPT Sat May 27 09:27:36 CDT 2006 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1300MHz GNU/Linux
18:09 <wrtlprnft> beat that
18:10 <spidey> my windows box beats it
18:10 <spidey> :p
18:10 <wrtlprnft> 2.6.16.19 is installed, waiting for restart
18:10 <bashusr> i will
18:10 <bashusr> my new computer
18:10 <bashusr> a AMD Athlon X2 4400+ is coming this Friday
18:10 <wrtlprnft> spidey: i meant the kernel, not the processor
18:10 <spidey> spidey@1[~]$ uname -mrs
18:10 <spidey> Linux 2.6.15-1-586tsc i686
18:10 <spidey> :/
18:10 <bashusr> beat all you poor folks
18:10 <wrtlprnft> pfft
18:11 <bashusr> but...
18:11 <spidey> how much ram you ot wrtl?
18:11 <bashusr> i had to skimp out on GPU
18:11 <spidey> i'll have around 868mb in a few weeks
18:11 <spidey> in this box
18:12 <spidey> and512mb in the windows box
18:12 <bashusr> you think onboard GPU is ok for tron?
18:12 <spidey> then 2 128sticks left :p
18:12 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ free -m ~ total used free shared buffers cached
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Mem: 1010 799 211 0 59 407
18:12 <wrtlprnft> -/+ buffers/cache: 332 678
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Swap: 488 0 488
18:12 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ free -m ~ total used free shared buffers cached
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Mem: 122 119 2 0 41 35
18:12 <wrtlprnft> -/+ buffers/cache: 42 79
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Swap: 494 17 476
18:13 <spidey> i have a 1gig swap :/
18:13 <wrtlprnft> sec, why in hell is my swap full?
18:14 <wrtlprnft> or no, it's just misaligned in the IRC window O_O
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> you running with particles turned on?
18:14 <n54> *yawn* cya all
18:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
18:17 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i am
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> then that's probably why
18:20 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know that it is
18:21 <wrtlprnft> i was trying to get something useful out of it, but didn't succeed
18:21 <wrtlprnft> aah, finally a questions thread from someone who *tried* to search for the answers first :)
18:21 <wrtlprnft> a pleasure to answer
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> which thread is that?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=52101#52101
18:22 <bashusr> Lucifer_arma: are you the real lucifer
18:22 <bashusr> ?
18:22 <bashusr> or the spanish imposter?
18:23 <wrtlprnft> no, he's real
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm Player 1
18:23 <wrtlprnft> type /whois Lucifer_arma
18:23 <wrtlprnft> he's identified
18:23 <wrtlprnft> and around for ages, so i believe him
18:23 <bashusr> lol
18:23 <bashusr> he can be identified here forever
18:23 <wrtlprnft> actually, longer than me
18:23 <bashusr> but doesn't mean a thing
18:23 <bashusr> that spanish luci is annoying :-P
18:23 <bashusr> breaks way too late
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> puto
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> :)
18:24 * wrtlprnft might be a fake too
18:24 <wrtlprnft> this channel is all fake
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> <--- faker
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> is there an earthquake going on somewhere in north america?
18:25 <Luke-Jr> bashusr: software 'GPU' should be enough for Arma
18:25 <bashusr> it's a GeForce something or another
18:25 <bashusr> 300Mhz RAMDAC
18:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: yes, everything is shaking here like crazy
18:26 <Luke-Jr> bashusr: my point is that it should work with just a 2D video card-- we don't require 3D acceleration
18:26 <wrtlprnft> ;)
18:26 <bashusr> i ionly get 30-60 FPS
18:26 <bashusr> i want my 1000 FPS!
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> why? Your eyes can't see faster than 90 fps anyway, assuming your monitor could show it faster
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> bendejo
18:26 <bashusr> lol
18:26 <bashusr> true
18:26 <bashusr> my refresh rate is only 60
18:26 <bashusr> cuz i got an LCD
18:26 <bashusr> but...
18:26 <bashusr> i want the ability!
18:27 <wrtlprnft> o_O
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> then be happy with 60, any extra frames are just thrown away :)
18:27 * wrtlprnft is happy if he gets 25fps
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> ? what about having a more stable connection to the server and a more stable simulation because you're not wasting time rendering frames you can't see anyway?
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> nina
18:28 * Lucifer_arma looks for his enye key
18:28 <bashusr> lol
18:28 <bashusr> btw...
18:28 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: try a 400x300 resolution with textures, sparks and HUD off
18:28 <Lucifer_arma> #whois Lucifer_arma
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> awww, bot can't do a whois?
18:29 <wrtlprnft> #list user
18:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: capabilities, changename, hostmask, hostmask add, hostmask list, hostmask remove, identify, list, register, set password, set secure, stats, unidentify, unregister, username, and whoami
18:29 <wrtlprnft> #user stats
18:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I have 8 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 1 admin.
18:29 <bashusr> how come armagatron slows down when i switch windows?
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> 1 admin? heh
18:29 <bashusr> i get MAD lag...
18:29 <bashusr> the triangles span half the place
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, because you're a bash user, and bash technically doesn't support windows, and we don't support windows under bash
18:30 <bashusr> lol
18:30 * Lucifer_arma groans.
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> sorry
18:30 <bashusr> knew that was going to bite me someday...
18:30 <bashusr> but i'm not changing my nick after 4 years...
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, ummm, I don't know. Do you still have 3d acceleration in windowed mode? I've heard no, but my fps is the same.
18:30 * wrtlprnft would really prefer binbash
18:30 <bashusr> binladan
18:30 <bashusr> don't think so.
18:31 <bashusr> :-P
18:31 <wrtlprnft> i do have 3d accell
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> When /bin/fritz played I used to change my name to /bin/laden
18:31 <wrtlprnft> fullscreen and windowed make no difference for me
18:31 <wrtlprnft> if there's nothing overlapping, that is
18:31 <bashusr> well
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> maybe you've got your desktop loaded up with so much crap that gets swapped when in fullscreen mode and then brought into action again when you go to windowed?
18:31 <bashusr> maybe it's my 1Ghz processor currently
18:32 * Lucifer_arma suggests people not to expect serious answers from him when he's doing homework :)
18:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma echo /away homework
18:33 <wrtlprnft> aww
18:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot echo /away homework
18:33 <armabot> /away homework
18:33 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:33 <bashusr> armabot: echo i'm cool
18:33 <armabot> i'm cool
18:33 <bashusr> armabot: echo /me h0t
18:33 <armabot> /me h0t
18:33 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:33 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work, unfortunately
18:33 <wrtlprnft> #f
18:33 <bashusr> you can fix it
18:33 <armabot> Random Fortune: Scientists will study your brain to learn more about your distant cousin, Man.
18:33 <bashusr> you'll have to add a new command though...
18:34 <bashusr> a me command
18:34 <wrtlprnft> i guess so
18:34 <bashusr> because /me is actually not a regular PRIVMSG #CHANNEL
18:34 * wrtlprnft thought about it, but is no python pro
18:34 <bashusr> python!
18:34 <bashusr> i love that!
18:34 <wrtlprnft> yes, python
18:34 <wrtlprnft> #version
18:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
18:34 <bashusr> /usr/bin/env python
18:34 <wrtlprnft> then go and make one :)
18:34 <bashusr> no thanks.
18:34 <wrtlprnft> #armaservers
18:35 <bashusr> join #armaservers
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: CVS Test Server: Fortress (16 players) || Norm's Place (11 players) || Swampland in 2.7.1 (5 players) || cps (4 players) || ~*SpeedeRs*~ Server! �FoC� (4 players) || basementunderground.net (4 players) || Shrunkland in 2.8 (4 players) || Tigers Network Speed Blast (4 players) || ~"XzL.Accel Clan Server (4 players) || spirals Projekt Messerschmitt (2 players) || (1 more message)
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #more
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Fortress Practice: Sumo (2 players) || ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's Teamplay {100Mbit} (2 players) || Crazy Tronners Jedi Battle Fortress (2 players) || War spaet gestern... (acceleration, limited views) (1 players) || [armagetronad.de] sylvs tavern for teams (0 players)
18:35 <bashusr> #less
18:35 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less more
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:35 <wrtlprnft> #less
18:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: That's all, there is no more.
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less "echo $user: <imagine fancy scroll features here> [more $*]"
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:36 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:36 <bashusr> lol
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #more Luke-Jr
18:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Sorry, I can't find any mores for Luke-Jr
18:36 <bashusr> less is more
18:36 <bashusr> #less
18:36 <armabot> bashusr: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
18:36 <bashusr> #help
18:36 <armabot> bashusr: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
18:36 <wrtlprnft> #superdice 99 99
18:37 <armabot> Results: 2 || 80 || 88 || 53 || 96 || 3 || 12 || 19 || 58 || 83 || 19 || 65 || 90 || 69 || 60 || 55 || 91 || 31 || 65 || 61 || 63 || 16 || 23 || 5 || 81 || 14 || 14 || 58 || 6 || 66 || 69 || 7 || 46 || 58 || 59 || 43 || 60 || 71 || 62 || 19 || 55 || 80 || 84 || 45 || 49 || 44 || 99 || 41 || (2 more messages)
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #less
18:37 <armabot> n=wrtlprnf: <imagine fancy scroll features here> 75 || 65 || 3 || 38 || 81 || 25 || 43 || 63 || 39 || 56 || 22 || 44 || 22 || 90 || 51 || 68 || 49 || 11 || 12 || 10 || 81 || 73 || 28 || 36 || 54 || 13 || 81 || 3 || 56 || 80 || 44 || 31 || 46 || 46 || 69 || 28 || 71 || 12 || 90 || 10 || 68 || 12 || 54 || 90 || 3 || 5 || 59 || 51 || 15 |
18:37 <wrtlprnft> gah
18:37 <bashusr> superdice?!
18:37 <bashusr> lol
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add less "echo $who: <imagine fancy scroll features here> [more $*]"
18:37 <bashusr> flood mode!
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah, superdice is a better #dice
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #dice
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
18:37 <wrtlprnft> #dice 50d50
18:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You can't roll more than 6 dice.
18:38 <wrtlprnft> #dice 10d10
18:38 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You can't roll more than 6 dice.
18:38 <bashusr> why can't you!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> why do they put an example in the help text that doesn't work?
18:38 <bashusr> your bot is limited!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> that's why there's #superdice
18:38 <bashusr> let me see the source
18:38 <bashusr> and i'll fix it!
18:38 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: it's supybot and belongs to Lucifer_arma
18:38 <wrtlprnft> #insight
18:38 <bashusr> oh really.......
18:38 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The astronomical outgrowth of technological change will intensify the demise of our genetic diversity.
18:38 <bashusr> #owner
18:38 <wrtlprnft> *she
18:38 <wrtlprnft> she's a she
18:39 <bashusr> it's an it
18:39 <wrtlprnft> he's a he?
18:39 <bashusr> bots aren't people... and don't get me started!
18:39 <wrtlprnft> tell that Lucifer_arma
18:39 <wrtlprnft> #whoisshe bashusr
18:39 <armabot> bashusr: deja_vu is the girl for you!
18:39 <bashusr> #whoisshe
18:39 <armabot> bashusr: (whoisshe <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo $1: $randomnick is the girl for you!".
18:39 <bashusr> huh?
18:39 <bashusr> deja_vu: you aren't a girl?!
18:40 <wrtlprnft> try #woisshe wrtlprnft
18:40 <bashusr> #whoishe wrtlprnft
18:40 <bashusr> lol
18:40 <bashusr> no he
18:40 <bashusr> #whoami
18:40 <armabot> bashusr: I don't recognize you.
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> supybot is available under the gpl, iirc. ANywy, it's python
18:40 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: whoisShe
18:40 <bashusr> i know
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> and I'll take patches and crap happily :)
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> you don't think I'd run such mission-critical software with proprietary stuff, do you? ;)
18:41 <wrtlprnft> mission-critical?
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news
18:41 <bashusr> huh?
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
18:41 <bashusr> proprietary stuff?
18:41 <bashusr> what are you talking about?!
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #list news
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: add, change, news, old, and remove
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> proprietary software = closed source
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news add we now use SVN :)
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: 'we' is not a valid number of seconds.
18:41 <bashusr> i know................
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #news add 100000 we now use SVN :)
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (news add [<channel>] <expires> <subject>: <text>) -- Adds a given news item of <text> to a channel with the given <subject>. If <expires> isn't 0, that news item will expire <expires> seconds from now. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
18:42 * wrtlprnft gives up, too stupid
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> #news
18:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command
18:42 <bashusr> but most IRC bots aren't GPL
18:42 <bashusr> er
18:42 <bashusr> are*
18:42 <bashusr> i don't know a single bot that is proprietary
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> #news add 10000 Change of repository: We now use SVN. :)
18:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded. (News item #7 added)
18:42 <bashusr> it would never sell
18:43 <Lucifer_arma> #news 7
18:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: We now use SVN. :) (Subject: "Change of repository", added by Lucifer_arma on 06:42 PM, May 31, 2006, expires at 09:29 PM, May 31, 2006)
18:43 <Lucifer_arma> #news
18:43 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: News for #armagetron: (#4) Armabot now has a message command; (#7) Change of repository
18:43 * Lucifer_arma notes that it's not really that hard
18:43 <wrtlprnft> true
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3^6
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3^6 = 729
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/6
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 728 / 6 = 121.333333
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 728/2
18:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 728 / 2 = 364
18:45 <wrtlprnft> #later tell bashusr that's armabot's most useful feature imho :)
18:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:45 <wrtlprnft> #mashuffle python bash armabot
18:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I found a broken link in the Markov chain. Maybe I received two bad links to start the chain.
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft yeah, it is. But this message command is neat too
18:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:46 <wrtlprnft> #m Lucifer_arma yeah, but it's just an alias
18:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:47 <Luke-Jr> #notes
18:47 * Lucifer_arma wonders again if armabot will deliver on actions
18:47 <wrtlprnft> grr, looks like that phil guy is an irc guru
18:47 <wrtlprnft> in tons of channels and identified
18:47 * Lucifer_arma notices that armabot doesn't deliver then
18:48 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
18:48 <LuciEatsPeople> heh
18:48 <Luke-Jr> why not?
18:48 <Luke-Jr> maybe it assumes /me is often Away
18:48 <LuciEatsPeople> now we'll see if armabot delivers on a name change :)
18:48 <wrtlprnft> i might have problems finding a time to grap his nick ;)
18:48 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
18:48 * Lucifer_arma didn't receive the message yet
18:48 <wrtlprnft> #m Luci* that LuciEatsPeople should get
18:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:48 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: ...
18:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
18:50 <wrtlprnft> ##
18:50 <Luke-Jr> I never get my notes
18:50 <armabot> Random Fortune: Fine's Corollary: || Functionality breeds Contempt.
18:50 <wrtlprnft> #notes Luke-Jr
18:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 4 days, 4 hours, and 11 minutes ago: <z-man> Please read the subversion thread on the forum before starting the conversion. http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50011#50011
18:50 <wrtlprnft> weird
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's an old message
18:51 * Lucifer_arma wonders if armabot has decreased the amount of PM traffic on the forums at all
18:51 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, that baby elephant's got huge ears!
18:53 <bashusr> #notes
18:53 <armabot> bashusr: I currently have notes waiting for a*, bashusr, guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax*, p*, phil, and phil*.
18:53 <bashusr> wha?
18:53 <bashusr> i have a note?!
18:53 <bashusr> #notes bashusr
18:53 <armabot> bashusr: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
18:53 <wrtlprnft> (referring to ph's topic) why should some player decide which features don't get dome?
18:53 <wrtlprnft> *done
18:53 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: you just got the note
18:53 <wrtlprnft> by saying #notes (or anything)
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> players already decide that by not implementing any features
18:54 <wrtlprnft> louven wants to decide that we don't get maps or guns anf fancy stuff
18:55 <wrtlprnft> i have to say I'm not thrilled by guns, but as long as they don't look like guns they're fine
18:55 <joda_bot> ;)
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, he sure isn't going to implement that stuff
18:55 <wrtlprnft> but he can't stop anyone from implementing it if the devs want it
18:55 <Luke-Jr> we should include Mozart's Requiem as game music 8)
18:56 <wrtlprnft> have a GPL'd .ogg handy?
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> find a midi file or something that we can distribute and we can
18:56 * Lucifer_arma notes that sdl_mixer can handle midi files
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> the only catch is, we might have to render it to ogg for the openAL change, if that ever actually happens
18:56 * wrtlprnft thought Lucifer_arma was gonna throw away sdl_mixer
18:56 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: GPL'd? =p
18:57 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
18:57 <Lucifer_arma> Hi Vanhomosexuals
18:57 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:57 <Luke-Jr> I got an MP3
18:57 <wrtlprnft> #canada
18:57 <armabot> 4
18:57 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: GPL'd == released under the GPL
18:57 <wrtlprnft> or PD or something compatible
18:58 <Vanhayes> #canada
18:58 <armabot> 4
18:58 <Vanhayes> heh
18:58 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: do you see it correctly?
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #alias
18:58 <wrtlprnft> looks like IRSSI is the only one getting it right
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #list alias
18:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: #, (, 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot\\\:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, help, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, less, lock, log, log, lotto, lukejr, m, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, pushredbutton, q, realchatlogs, remove, (1 more message)
18:58 <Vanhayes> it is white four black background
18:58 <wrtlprnft> it
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #alias add texas "echo 1"
18:58 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #tex
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #texas
18:58 <armabot> 1
18:58 <Lucifer_arma> #canada
18:58 <armabot> 4
18:58 <wrtlprnft> 's supposed to liik like the flag in arma...
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, #texas < #canada
18:59 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: did you see it?
18:59 <Lucifer_arma> that was dumb
18:59 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:59 <bashusr> see what?
18:59 <wrtlprnft> well, it is
18:59 <Vanhayes> got the meaning anyway
18:59 <wrtlprnft> the canada flag
18:59 <bashusr> looks less like a flag
18:59 <bashusr> than in arma
18:59 <bashusr> the 4 looks like a 4 here
18:59 * wrtlprnft has to add a canadian flag to http://wrtlprnft.de/flaggen.htm one day
18:59 <wrtlprnft> :(
19:00 <bashusr> what's with you canadians?
19:00 <bashusr> your USA flag doesn't look right
19:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/canada.png
19:00 <Vanhayes> our us flag is non existant
19:00 <wrtlprnft> that's how it shoulc look like
19:01 <bashusr> looks like that wrtlprnft
19:01 <wrtlprnft> what brower/version/screenshot?
19:01 <bashusr> huh?
19:01 <bashusr> IE
19:01 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work in IE
19:01 <bashusr> i just see lines on the place
19:01 <bashusr> lol
19:01 <bashusr> ok
19:01 <wrtlprnft> the german text on the page says that
19:01 <Vanhayes> o ya forgot to thank u for sugesting opera way back wrtl
19:02 <bashusr> lol
19:02 <bashusr> ok
19:02 <Vanhayes> way better than IE
19:02 <bashusr> i can't read German
19:02 <bashusr> firefox!
19:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, you're welcome :)
19:02 <wrtlprnft> bashusr: ff should work
19:02 <bashusr> it takes too long to load
19:02 <wrtlprnft> and konqueror
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 7^3
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 7^3 = 343
19:02 <bashusr> firefox still doesn't catch my attention enough
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g -5^3
19:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, you're on linux, right?
19:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: -5^3 = -125
19:03 <wrtlprnft> so you use IE under wine?
19:03 <wrtlprnft> ir bash under cygwin?
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #g 343+125
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 343 + 125 = 468
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> #g 468/9
19:03 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 468 / 9 = 52
19:03 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: I'm happy to have got someone to switch :)
19:03 <bashusr> ssh
19:03 <wrtlprnft> IE is a pain for web designers
19:03 <bashusr> i have a linux box
19:03 <bashusr> i agree
19:03 <bashusr> sorta
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> Ie SuCkS
19:04 <Vanhayes> it always froze up for me
19:04 * Lucifer_arma thinks it would be pretty funny if he turned out to be all the fake Lucifer's too
19:04 <bashusr> windows is my GUI
19:04 <bashusr> just works faster for me
19:05 <bashusr> and runs all the programs i need
19:05 <bashusr> putty is also my favorite
19:05 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/flagsie.png
19:06 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/flagsopera.png
19:06 <wrtlprnft> find the difference
19:06 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*4
19:06 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 16 * 4 = 64
19:07 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873DF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Success]
19:07 <wrtlprnft> success?
19:07 <joda_bot> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/
19:07 <joda_bot> Guess I'm done with this
19:07 <bashusr> fine
19:07 <bashusr> if everyone has their own nick site
19:07 <bashusr> i have to pull mine out too
19:07 <wrtlprnft> what is it for anywayws joda_bot?
19:07 <joda_bot> Only problem is that javascript does not allow to detect the country
19:07 <joda_bot> :|
19:08 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I wanted to make downloads easier
19:08 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: and the download button is gone now...
19:08 <joda_bot> many new players seem to have no clue how to navigate the sf files site
19:08 <joda_bot> ?
19:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.lucifer.com/
19:09 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/ffaa.png
19:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Lucifer_arma: If anyone can suggest a sane way to select the download mirrors I'd be happy, but I guess I can only offer a choice for that ... because proxies or other stuff will usually make any detection invalid
19:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what about server side detection?
19:10 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: just link to the mirror page?
19:10 <wrtlprnft> it just requires one click
19:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://lucifer.davefancella.com/
19:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Yes, what do you click on... before you get used to it, you click on sponsors ads and co
19:11 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got any javascript errors ?
19:12 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i like the first site more :P
19:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes i do get errors
19:15 <Lucifer_arma> the thing doesn't work for me, if it's supposed to do anything
19:15 <bashusr> 'who is alexander Chssenklo?
19:15 <bashusr> weirdo.
19:15 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: no wonder, syntax error
19:15 <wrtlprnft> http://joda.homeip.net/download/armagetron/download.js
19:16 <wrtlprnft> line 62, there's a , too much
19:16 <joda_bot> fixed
19:16 <joda_bot> any other problems ?
19:17 <bashusr> why javascript?
19:17 <bashusr> just use php
19:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah, really
19:17 <bashusr> and figure out where they are from server side...
19:17 <wrtlprnft> and the link should not depend on js anyways
19:17 <wrtlprnft> it's the only point of the page
19:17 <wrtlprnft> and i tend to surf with js disabled
19:18 <wrtlprnft> i only noticed you actually use js when you asked me if there were errors
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> there's a link?
19:19 * Lucifer_arma doesn't see a link
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> just the Tron link
19:21 <wrtlprnft> js is not the way to go for this, sorry
19:21 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: It's the same as http://mozilla.org/firefox download button
19:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: it's not nice I known, but it works and keeps server load low
19:22 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: just that I probably messed it up somewhere
19:22 <wrtlprnft> come on, a simple php script doesn't produce lots of server load
19:22 <joda_bot> depends on the hits
19:22 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: with the difference that the firefox thing actually shows something useful without JS
19:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/ffaaerror.png
19:23 <wrtlprnft> make your own sense of it...
19:23 <bashusr> i bet you firefox website
19:23 <bashusr> uses some sorta server side work
19:23 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: that will be fixed
19:23 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: you don't even need PHP
19:23 <wrtlprnft> you can just use mod_rewrite for that
19:24 <wrtlprnft> but don't depend on JS for that, i refuse
19:24 <joda_bot> hehe, do as you wish ;)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> and I think it's fine to just put all 3 links in the bubble
19:26 <wrtlprnft> linux, macos, win
19:26 <wrtlprnft> there are no different versions for different languages anyways
19:27 <joda_bot> I know
19:32 <bashusr> blue's dieing
19:33 <Vanhayes> nah we will win
19:33 <bashusr> blue's gonna lose!
19:35 <wrtlprnft> wtf is wrong with my conection again?
19:39 <Vanhayes> wrtl u got disconnected again?
19:40 <bashusr> wow
19:40 <bashusr> blue did win
19:40 <Vanhayes> told u
19:40 <wrtlprnft> yes i did
19:40 <wrtlprnft> but got a nice screenshot out of it
19:40 <wrtlprnft> all nongrinders
19:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:40 <Vanhayes> was i one of them?
19:41 <wrtlprnft> everyone was
19:41 <wrtlprnft> my connection must have broken just after the start
19:41 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:41 <Vanhayes> weird I saw u turning
19:42 -!- SD_away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:42 <wrtlprnft> very weird...
19:42 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:49 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=366
19:50 <wrtlprnft> talk about nongrinders :P
19:53 <Vanhayes> is that going to be the new HUD?
19:53 <wrtlprnft> no, that's just my version
19:54 <Vanhayes> but there is going to be a new one?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> it's gonna be slightly different, yes
19:54 * wrtlprnft digs out a screenshot
19:55 * wrtlprnft gives up and makes one O_O
19:56 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_2.png
19:56 <wrtlprnft> that colorful brake meter will go away, though
19:56 <wrtlprnft> it was just for testing
19:56 * Lucifer_arma is going to make his hud the default incam hud :)
19:57 <Vanhayes> I like the font, its more difined
19:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> and the rubber meter changes color :)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> it is red if it's almost full, yellow at about half and green if it's almost empty
19:59 <wrtlprnft> and the color change is smooth, of course
19:59 <Vanhayes> who made the HUD?
20:00 <wrtlprnft> uh, the cockpit stuff is mostly mine, with some inspiration from Lucifer_arma
20:00 <wrtlprnft> and the minimap belongs to jonathan
20:01 <Vanhayes> looks good, when is it going to be on armagetron?
20:01 <Vanhayes> for download i mean
20:02 <wrtlprnft> uh, i recall we were planning to release a development snapshot sometime soon
20:02 <wrtlprnft> but it'll take at least half a year before it turns into a final or beta or anything i guess
20:02 <Vanhayes> what is the meter in top right for?
20:02 <wrtlprnft> framerate
20:02 <wrtlprnft> right end is 50, left is 0
20:02 <wrtlprnft> or no, right is 100
20:03 <wrtlprnft> in my cockpit it's 50 since i never ever get above that
20:03 <wrtlprnft> my cockpit = the one in the other screenshots
20:04 <Vanhayes> how come it will take half a year to get in a beta?
20:04 <wrtlprnft> too many things that are still missing
20:04 <wrtlprnft> we have big plans...
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that's the price for having Luke-Jr Lucifer_arma in the team... they bloat every single change into a huge thing
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that's the only reason why we actually have cockpit files now
20:06 <wrtlprnft> it started out with me replacing the needle gauges by bar gauges
20:06 <wrtlprnft> then Lucifer_arma wanted the colors configurable by options
20:06 <wrtlprnft> and we figured that it would take us more than 36 new config items just for that
20:07 <wrtlprnft> so Lucifer_arma suggested turning the cockpit into an XML file, and voila, here you go
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20:15 <Vanhayes> hmm what ever happened to that pigsty server? I liked to shoot
20:16 <wrtlprnft> use the race server :P
20:17 <wrtlprnft> can't shoot, but lay mines
20:17 <Vanhayes> lol o ya forgot bout that
20:17 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't support zombies, pig never released that version
20:17 <wrtlprnft> if it did i would have a zombie following everyone from start
20:17 <Vanhayes> lol would make them use boost
20:18 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:18 <Vanhayes> ok I'm gonna call it a night cya
20:19 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034182208.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:23 <SD_away> Ponchiro says:
20:23 <SD_away> i wish there was a way in which you could use more rubber when you doublebinded and still have a tight bind
20:23 <SD_away> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
20:23 <SD_away> I 100% aggree!
20:24 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:25 <wrtlprnft> you mean cycle_rubber_delay and cycle_rubber_bonus?
20:25 <SD_away> well...
20:26 -!- SD_away is now known as Self_Destructo
20:30 <Self_Destructo> cycle_rubber_time
20:31 * Lucifer_arma is a slave to the power of bloat
20:31 * Lucifer_arma sings Bloatslave - Iron Maiden
20:32 <joda_bot> gn8
20:32 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-036-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
20:35 <wrtlprnft> night
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=50681#50681 <--- no posts, no complaining
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i just got the camera modes for the cockpit working :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> with the result that the default cockpit file now doesn't have any widgets in incam mode
20:43 <wrtlprnft> due to too much copy and paste :P
20:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: then we just need someone to build releases :P
20:48 <Lucifer_arma> we should probably spend at least a couple of minutes assembling a cockpit that's, ummm, not a test cockpit file
20:49 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm serious about using my cockpit for the hud. Maybe add some widgets people have come to expect, but the general layout is about what I'd expect in a cockpit for a light cycle
20:49 <wrtlprnft> yeah, let me finish up the cameras first
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> probably label the widgets too
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I might fool with making a less testy and more playey cockpit :)
20:50 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> but when people say "Hey, this cockpit sucks, it should look like this" we should have a better answer than "Well, that's the one we use to test" :)
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> Whoah-oah-oah we're right, we're free, we'll fight, you'll see!
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> We're not gonna take it, No! We ain't gonna take it, We're not gonna take it anymore!
20:51 * Lucifer_arma loves that song
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> my wife took my two sons out the front door and disappeared. Dinner will be ready approximately 20 minutes after I start cooking, and I have no idea when she'll be back
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> should I start cooking anyway and just feed me and my daughter and let my wife scrounge? Or should I wait for her?
20:52 <wrtlprnft> we should make a "Cool Stuff To Try With The Dev Snapshot"
20:52 * Lucifer_arma will smoke one more cigarrette, then cook.
20:53 <wrtlprnft> that would include my cockpit file, including different fonts, etc
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, we should do that. :) That's cool.
20:53 <wrtlprnft> and your sound stuff of course
20:54 <wrtlprnft> yay the cam stuff finally works :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> after i proved myself unable to add three octal numbers
20:57 <wrtlprnft> Warning in void eWavData::LoadWavFile(const char*) in ../../src/engine/sound/eChannel.cpp:71 : Couldn't load wav file
20:57 <wrtlprnft> is there any elegant way to get rid of that error?
20:57 <wrtlprnft> or warning, whatever
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> disable the code that tells you about it, it's in eWavData somewhere, either the constructor or the Load method
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> umm, a slightly less drastic thing but more work (potentially) is to comment out the lines that load sound effects that don't exist. :)
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> That's in eSoundMixer's constructor.
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> I can take care of it, I'd opt for the second solution myself
21:05 <Lucifer_arma> but it'll be a little later, I'm cooking dinner with no sign of my wife showing up.
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> One of these days she's going to walk off and get herself into trouble, and I'm going to have any reason to worry because she does this shit all the time
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> +not
21:06 <wrtlprnft> I'll let you do it, it's your code :)
21:07 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
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21:42 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: what happened to make cvscheck? I can't find it as make svncheck and it worked yesterday...
21:52 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:59 <spidey> sd
22:00 <wrtlprnft> spidey: try saying Self_Destructo
22:00 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo:
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <wrtlprnft> that gets hilightet in most clients
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <spidey> wrtlprnft
22:00 <wrtlprnft> ...
22:00 <spidey> :p
22:00 <wrtlprnft> actually for me it's enough to say anything that contains wrtl, font, hud, rotation or cockpit
22:01 <spidey> wrtl
22:01 <wrtlprnft> no, not rotation, actually
22:01 <spidey> hud
22:01 <wrtlprnft> but wrt is enough already
22:01 <spidey> font
22:01 <spidey> :D
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 Highlights:
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 1 wrt
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 2 font
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 3 cockpit
22:01 <wrtlprnft> 22:01 4 hud
22:01 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
22:01 <wrtlprnft> wb
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> re
22:02 * Lucifer_arma just ripped the paul simon song he's been wanting to hear
22:02 <wrtlprnft> check out the new SVN with the default HUD and switch to incam ;)
22:02 * Lucifer_arma loves the horns in this song
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's gonna be one of those songs where I tear up the grid when it comes on. :)
22:03 * Lucifer_arma is finally getting his music collection ripped to ogg vorbis so he can eliminate some of the mp3s laying around
22:04 <wrtlprnft> is there a lossless way from mp3 to ogg?
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> nope
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> the only way is to decode the mp3 back to what it was and encode that to ogg. It's the encode to ogg part that's lossy. :(
22:05 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that one's obvious
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i meant like you can turn JPEGs without loss
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> then I need a script that assembles a symlinked directory of songs. I decided to accept having separate directories for formats for the sake of keeping track of how many mp3s I have left
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> maybe the script can scan by genre and organize it that way. :)
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> no, that usually results in directories I never look in that I would look in if I browse by artist.
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> so something with just Luci in it
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> *say
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> #echo Luci, how are you?
22:21 <armabot> Luci, how are you?
22:21 <Lucifer_arma> I'm fine, how are you?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> how are you luci
22:28 <wrtlprnft> is everything ok LuCi?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> does it work Luci?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:28 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> works great, highlighted the second line too, so I guess it's not case sensitive
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft
22:29 <wrtlprnft> heh. found out about the /hilight command=
22:29 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> yessir
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(9)
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(9) = 2.19722458
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(1)
22:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^(11/6)
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^(11 / 6) = 2,048
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2048*6
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,048 * 6 = 12,288
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12288/11
23:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12,288 / 11 = 1,117.09091
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12282/11
23:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12,282 / 11 = 1,116.54545
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> #g 14*11 + 12282
23:02 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (14 * 11) + 12,282 = 12,436
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1^0
23:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1^0 = 1
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2^0
23:04 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2^0 = 1
23:05 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@67.40.236.77] has joined #armagetron
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft does the cockpit file support the <settings> tag at all? I was thinking it'd be nice if the custom cam settings could be set in that file...
23:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft alternately, we might consider having a USE_COCKPIT_CUSTOM setting or similar and give the cockpit cam settings, although that's hardly ideal. Hmmm.....
23:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft what about hacking the camera to take its paramters from the cockpit file and doing away with custom cam for most practical purposes?
23:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
23:26 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
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23:57 <Lucifer_arma> anybody here who knows anything about the chat code?
DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.
• Website was created by nelg
• Design:
» Layout is loosely based on an old design by Durf.
» Icons on the tools page were originally by Royce, new icons added will try to follow some of the design language.
» Various other icon selections include icons from Crystal, crystalsvg, oxygen, and breeze icon themes.
» Other icons: fontawesome
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
Gridder
.