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Log from 2006-05-06:
--- Log opened Fr Mai 05 23:35:20 2006
23:35 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
23:35 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
23:35 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
--- Log closed Fr Mai 05 23:35:42 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 06 09:26:23 2006
09:26 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
09:26 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
09:26 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
--- Log closed Sat May 06 09:27:47 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 06 09:28:20 2006
09:28 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
09:28 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
09:28 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
09:28 < wrtlprnft> neat
09:29 < wrtlprnft> now I get irssi started in a screen session everytime I boot up
09:30 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you weren't referring to a == top-heading == ?
09:31 < wrtlprnft_> I was referring to whether to use == heading == or = heading = for headings
09:31  * luke-jr__ wasn't aware = heading = would even work
09:31 < wrtlprnft_> it does and gets used on some older pages
09:32 < wrtlprnft_> and exactly because of that I'm telling people to use h2/==blah==
09:32 < luke-jr__> oh, I thought you were telling people to use ===blah=== because ==blah== was too big or something
09:32 < wrtlprnft_> no
09:32 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
09:33 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
09:33  * luke-jr__ peers
09:33 < luke-jr__> what ever happened to the efnet #armagetron people anyway?
09:34 < wrtlprnft> no idea there ever existed an #armagetron channel on another network
09:34 < luke-jr__> o
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:51:56 --> You are now talking on #armagetron
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:52:19 <Luke-Jr>   ...
09:34 < luke-jr__> Mar 21 18:52:24 <armrelay>  <Luke-Jr-efnet> ...
09:34 < luke-jr__> they used to be bridged
09:34 < wrtlprnft> anyone there?
09:36 < wrtlprnft> wrong: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Tronic
09:36 < wrtlprnft> correct: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Teamplay
09:36 < luke-jr__> ElronMacB-efnet, Petarius-efnet, Sputti-quakenet, cybex-quakenet,  s474n-efnet, guru3-efnet, cybex-quakenet, icarus0-efnet, thunderb1-efnet, lsbnrdkil-efnet, \dev\null-efnet, 
09:39 < luke-jr__> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Tronic?useskin=aan_orig
09:40 < wrtlprnft> yes?
09:40 < luke-jr__> yes
09:41 < luke-jr__> you're right, just thought you were attacking it for the wrong reasons or something
09:41 < wrtlprnft> nope i didn't :)
09:42 < wrtlprnft> wow just 100 packages left to re-emerge
09:42 < luke-jr__> o.o
09:42 < wrtlprnft> but one of them is openoffice so it's probably gonna take a while
09:42 < luke-jr__> why bother with it
09:43 < wrtlprnft> why not? Now I have gcc 3.4 and want everything compiled with it
09:43 < wrtlprnft> although gcc 3.3 seems to refuse to compile with gcc 3.4...
09:49 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: did you get my message on the font bug?
09:50 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
09:52 < Self_Destructo> Lackadaisical: hi
09:52 < Lackadaisical> hi
09:58 < wrtlprnft> yes I did but i have no idea what causes it...
09:59 < wrtlprnft> does it appear every time you enter fullscreen?
09:59 < wrtlprnft> what happens if you set FONT_TYPE to 1 or 2 and restart?
10:38 < Self_Destructo> ok, i'll try that... I didn't have the time to try to duplicate it though
10:40 < wrtlprnft> if it just happened once and doesn't appear again I can't help ;)
10:41 < Self_Destructo> ok, i just went from fullscreen to windowed and it did it...
10:43 < Self_Destructo> ok, it does it both ways for me
10:43 < Self_Destructo> from windowed to full and from full to winodwed
10:43 < wrtlprnft> weird
10:43 < wrtlprnft> with all FONT_TYPE settings (fom 0 to 3)?
10:46 < Self_Destructo> hmm...
10:46 < Self_Destructo> lemme check..
10:47 < Self_Destructo> FONT_TYPE is edited where?
10:47 < Self_Destructo> configs?
10:47 < wrtlprnft> console
10:47 < Self_Destructo> k
10:47 < wrtlprnft> enter it to the console and restart
10:49 < Self_Destructo> ewww
10:49 < wrtlprnft> ?
10:49 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: cause OpenOffice is dumb?
10:49 < wrtlprnft> it works fine for me
10:49 < Self_Destructo> i entered it into the console and all except for bottom left of my screen turned white
10:50 < wrtlprnft> a bit bloated, but it works
10:50 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: restart arma after that
10:51 < Self_Destructo> ok, i set it to 2 and now it works fine
10:51 < Self_Destructo> trying 1
10:51 < wrtlprnft> 1 should be slow, 2 looks ugly and 0 sucks, anyways... but I just wanna see if the bug disappears
10:52 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: KOffice works for the maybe one thing I need it for
10:52 < luke-jr__> and it isn't slow and bloated
10:52 < wrtlprnft> well, I want to use the same program on the computers in my school
10:53 < wrtlprnft> there's portable OOo which i have on my USB stick, and it's handy
10:54 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok 0 sucks, 1 is very slow, and 2 is very jagged
10:54 < Self_Destructo> I'm sticking wuth 3 :)
10:54 < wrtlprnft> that's what i told you... but what about the fullscreen bug?
10:55 < Self_Destructo> only on 3
10:55 < wrtlprnft> 1 looks best :D
10:55 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess you have to reupload the Textures of the font if the fullscreen mode is toggles
10:55 < joda_bot> toggled
10:55 < Self_Destructo> 1 looks good, but, it's a little fussy, like two layers of text, one a little ofcentered
10:55 < wrtlprnft> shouldn't ftgl do that?
10:56 < joda_bot> OpenGL context is destroyed and recreated or something like that, and thus you have to reupload the texutre
10:56 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'm not sure if the library cover that behaviour
10:56 < wrtlprnft> so I need to find out where the resolution switch is and re- load the font every time it changes
10:57 < joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Just in rTexture for *Load*
10:57 < joda_bot> that's called somewhere in game reloadTextures or something
10:57 < joda_bot> afaik
10:58 < wrtlprnft> gotta look for it once I'm finished with the foundation for the config rotation system
10:59 < Self_Destructo> :)
11:01 < n54> heeh it must be handy having someone around who previously started porting ftgl :D
11:01 < n54> hehe*
11:01 < wrtlprnft> :D
11:01 < n54> :)
11:01 < wrtlprnft> ehhe? eheh?
11:01 < luke-jr__> who?
11:01 < wrtlprnft> heeh! hehe?
11:01 < n54> just me crashing into the keyboard :)
11:01 < Self_Destructo> lol
11:02  * luke-jr__ stabs work
11:03 < luke-jr__> we should figure out a way to get income via AA ;)
11:03 < luke-jr__> then we'll all have more time for it
11:03 < wrtlprnft> hmm
11:05 < Self_Destructo> hmm :)
11:05 < Self_Destructo> marketing it?
11:06 < luke-jr__> ?
11:06 < Self_Destructo> it's kinfa hard to market and open source project though
11:06 < luke-jr__> maybe not
11:06 < luke-jr__> we can burn official CDs ;)
11:06 < Self_Destructo> yes
11:06 < luke-jr__> and not mention that it's a free download
11:06 < Self_Destructo> and who would get the money?
11:07 < wrtlprnft> you can make money with OSS... mysql and mozilla are examples
11:07 < luke-jr__> an easy way would be just have the developers all do their own CD selling individually
11:07 < luke-jr__> MySQL is not an example, since its money comes from closed source
11:07 < luke-jr__> maybe we could have a membership that gets people into some servers... eg, new code not integrated into CVS yet or something
11:08 < wrtlprnft> then take redhat instead
11:08 < wrtlprnft> after authentification
11:08 < luke-jr__> though then again... those new code are what we want tested more ;)
11:09 < luke-jr__> ok, new requirement for authentication: memberships in groups =p
11:09 < luke-jr__> eg, group key signs player key w/ expiration
11:10 < wrtlprnft> we already plan that, do we?
11:10  * Self_Destructo �tscript� 2.492beta by Tribe @ PTnet (http://tscript.page.vu)
11:10 < wrtlprnft> with clans as keysigners
11:10 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: I don't think so
11:10 < luke-jr__> clans aren't in the plan ATM
11:10 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: ?
11:10 < luke-jr__> other than their potency to host an auth server
11:10 < Self_Destructo> sorry
11:10 < wrtlprnft> clans or groups or teams, whatever
11:10 < Self_Destructo> was experimenting with a command
11:10 < luke-jr__> auth server is independent of clans/team, technically
11:11 < wrtlprnft> http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml <-- that the newest version of the rotation Self_Destructo?
11:12 < wrtlprnft> /msg armabot test
11:12 < Self_Destructo> umm, no
11:12 < wrtlprnft> then, which one is it?
11:12 < Self_Destructo> I've got some work to do on it...
11:12 < Self_Destructo> i can do it today if you want
11:13 < wrtlprnft> O well, I want the format to be more or less fixed before I start parsing ;)
11:13 < Self_Destructo> ok
11:13 < Self_Destructo> well, I'm adding <Mode> to it... to contain for the tournament stuff
11:13 < Self_Destructo> or different w/e modes someone wants
11:14 < luke-jr__> Anyway, authentication is one of the features that could use development funding... so how about present-day ideas? ;)
11:15 < luke-jr__> shouldn't be too difficult to put together a CD label... what would be a good price tag for the game? maybe $5 or so?
11:15  * wrtlprnft wouldn't buy it, to be honest
11:15 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you know it can be downloaded =p
11:16 < luke-jr__> you're also a developer
11:16 < luke-jr__> so there no "help support the team" incentive for you
11:16 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: enough with the idea
11:16 < wrtlprnft> I wouldn't buy GLTron on a CD either
11:16 < wrtlprnft> you have to include something that you can only get on that CD
11:16 < wrtlprnft> like special moviepacks and fonts and maps
11:16 < luke-jr__> ok, any ideas? =p
11:17 < luke-jr__> maps wouldn't work
11:18 < wrtlprnft> so resources are a bad concept, they can't be sold
11:18 < luke-jr__> they can, but it's harder to make them unobtainable
11:18 < Lackadaisical> maybe a thank you note from the developers :) or let the cd's be signed by the developers
11:18 < luke-jr__> because by their nature, all players need the map to play
11:19 < wrtlprnft> well, only owners of that CD could play ;)
11:19 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: unless we have a wide-scale CD selling area, that won't be too many
11:19 < luke-jr__> and if there's too few, people who have the CD can just distribute the map to other people manually or put it on a 3rd party server
11:21 < wrtlprnft> Or just sell the alphas
11:21 < wrtlprnft> you know, new features noone else has
11:21 < luke-jr__> hm!
11:21 < luke-jr__> alphas wouldn't be tested enough
11:21 < luke-jr__> but maybe the odd-versions
11:21 < luke-jr__> 0.3.x
11:22 < wrtlprnft> who cares about testing? It's sold, we have the money :D
11:22 < luke-jr__> we can have a minimal set of official testers for them prior to shipping, and the 'real' stable testing only needs to start w/ 0.4/1.0 betas
11:22 < wrtlprnft> if it doesn't work... too bad
11:22 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: if they suck, nobody will continue to buy updates =p
11:23 < wrtlprnft> anyways, someone can buy the alphas and put them on the internet for everybody
11:23 < luke-jr__> in the case of both alphas and (hopefully) 0.3.x, they'll be obsolete by then ;)
11:24 < wrtlprnft> then we need really rapid development
11:24 < luke-jr__> well, we need to push 0.3s faster
11:24 < luke-jr__> I think we should have one by now
11:25 < wrtlprnft> luke-jr__: great ideas there... maybe you should work for MS?
11:25 < wrtlprnft> that must be your dream company then :D
11:25 < luke-jr__> 0.3 isn't supposed to be stable
11:25 < luke-jr__> just tested
11:25 < luke-jr__> HEAD works fine for me right now
11:26 < wrtlprnft> uh
11:26 < luke-jr__> and it was your idea to use unstable releases, remember
11:26 < wrtlprnft> except that it always segfaults if you quit?
11:26  * luke-jr__ hasn't noticed
11:26 < wrtlprnft> mine does
11:26 < wrtlprnft> at least in debug mode
11:27 < wrtlprnft> doesn't in optimized mode
11:27 < luke-jr__> well, 0.3 releases wouldn't need to be debug
11:28 < wrtlprnft> at least it's not the other way ;)
11:28 < luke-jr__> the problems that scare me are the ones only in release mode
11:28 < luke-jr__> yeah
11:28 < wrtlprnft> at least in debug mode you can debug the bug
11:28 < luke-jr__> ;)
11:28 < luke-jr__> I don't use debug mode
11:28 < luke-jr__> it sucks
11:28 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml
11:28 < luke-jr__> I like fullscreen and sounds
11:28 < Self_Destructo> ok, updated
11:29 < wrtlprnft> so, there's a second setting for the mode?
11:29 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: so you do or don't like the idea of selling 0.3s?
11:29 < Self_Destructo> yes
11:29 < Self_Destructo> scroll down....
11:29 < Self_Destructo> example of ''tournament'' mode
11:29 < wrtlprnft> nope. this is OSS after all, and I'm not interested in the trouble
11:30 < wrtlprnft> if you sell it I don't mind if you give me some of the money, though ;)
11:30 < Self_Destructo> I'm not sure this ''tournament'' belongs there, but it's starting place
11:30 < luke-jr__> it's free software
11:30 < wrtlprnft> I don't like that... That should be a separate XML file
11:31 < luke-jr__> and neither OSS nor FS discourage charging money
11:31 < wrtlprnft> as i said, not interested in the trouble
11:32  * Self_Destructo will brb
11:32 < luke-jr__> what trouble?
11:33 < wrtlprnft> selling CDs...
11:34  * luke-jr__ doesn't see where there's trouble unless it's insanely popular
11:34 < wrtlprnft> well, you have to burn, label and ship the CDs, right? and in the end you need to get the money somehow
11:34 < luke-jr__> maybe not ship
11:35 < luke-jr__> I was just thinking selling em to random people you see around
11:35 < luke-jr__> and chat with
11:35  * wrtlprnft thinks that's even more trouble ;)
11:35 < luke-jr__> heh
11:36 < wrtlprnft> grr, battery empty... gotta recharge... bbiab wanna enjoy the sun here
11:37 < wrtlprnft> bad idea to run compile jobs while you're on battery anyways
11:37 < luke-jr__> well, maybe there's a way we could have like $1-$2 go to the developer doing the CD work and tally the rest up or something
11:38 < luke-jr__> the concept is obviously doomed to failure without support from all the developers, though
11:42  * Self_Destructo is back
11:42 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: The only thing that would make the CD worthwhile would be :
11:42 < joda_bot> make ArmagetronAd a portable app, add single player maps, and special maps with textures cycles and stuff
11:42 < joda_bot> E.g. art / mods/ maps for tron
11:43 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: if you want to make money, finish my program that i have been waiting months and month and months for
11:43 < luke-jr__> portable app? wtf?
11:43 < joda_bot> I guess we should not charge for the code but for the packs might be ;)
11:43 < luke-jr__> Self_Destructo: working on it =p
11:43 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: http://portableapps.com/
11:43 < Self_Destructo> luke-jr__: like always?
11:43 < joda_bot> Just make an installer for it, that owners can put on their USB stick
11:44 < joda_bot> But all modifications have to go back to cvs ... so well it's free all isn't it ?
11:44 < luke-jr__> Self_Destructo: got the weekend off from work, so if there's a period of time I'm not spending with family (we're visiting) (probably at night or such), I might make some major progress
11:46 < luke-jr__> joda_bot: Arma is already a "Portable App", just install it to a USB stick
11:47 < luke-jr__> we don't use the registry
11:49 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: We might make a smaller install though ;)
11:49 < joda_bot> luke-jr__: compress the exec with upx and co
11:49 < luke-jr__> ...
11:49 < luke-jr__> why?
11:50 < joda_bot> to make smaller on an usb stick or a disk or cell phone, if you carry it around with you ;)
11:51 < luke-jr__> Arma doesn't run on any cell phones AFAIK...
11:51 < luke-jr__> and it's plenty small enough for a USB stick...
11:52 < luke-jr__> Actually, I take back what I said... arma *isn't* a "Portable App"
11:52 < luke-jr__> since it uses the user's local dir now
11:53 < luke-jr__> maybe a simple hack like "if (datadir/removable exists) home=datadir/removable/"
11:54 < luke-jr__> and simply have the install do a mkdir datadir/removable when the user selects the "Portable App" option
11:56 < luke-jr__> anyhow, I need to get some sleep
11:56 < luke-jr__> bbl
12:22 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: is it possible to put some transparency into those meters?
12:31 < wrtlprnft> which ones?
12:31 < wrtlprnft> you can make the background and foreground of bar gauges transparent, yes
12:31 < wrtlprnft> just look at the <Color> tags :D
12:38 < Self_Destructo> ok
12:39 < Self_Destructo> i kind want to make my rubber meter big, but I want to kinda see through it so it doesn'r block me view either
12:45 < Self_Destructo> #chatlog
12:52 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: type COCKPIT_FILE wrtlprnft/testfile-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml into the console
12:52 < wrtlprnft> that gives you a huge rubbermeter that's a bit transparent
12:53 < wrtlprnft> and if you go to the global keyboard config and bind COCKPIT_KEY_1 and COCKPIT_KEY_2 you can use them to toggle the map and graphic rendering
12:54 < Self_Destructo> ok
12:55 < wrtlprnft> or at least make the graphic rendering very dark. handy on chico maps, then you can play entirely by HUD map
12:56 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
12:56 < wrtlprnft> hi z-man 
12:56 < z-man> hi
12:56 < z-man> sorry for bouncing in an out
12:56 < wrtlprnft> where's the problem with that?
12:56 < z-man> does anyone know a way to neatly log out of IRC when you suspend your PC?
12:57 < z-man> I hate to be timing out
12:57 < wrtlprnft> dunno
12:57 < wrtlprnft> what client?
12:57 < z-man> people may assume I'm still there, but I can't even read the logs afterwards.
12:57 < z-man> konversation
12:57 < wrtlprnft> armabot :D
12:58 < z-man> yeah, but that's too cumbersome :)
12:58 < wrtlprnft> maybe some dcop stuff?
12:58 < z-man> you mean, send it a message?
12:58 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
12:59 < wrtlprnft> yes
13:00 < Self_Destructo> hi z-man
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> test
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> neat
13:00 < wrtlprnft_konver> that i sent through dcop :D
13:00 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
13:00 < wrtlprnft> very nice
13:00 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
13:01 < z-man> what's the command line?
13:01 < wrtlprnft> not sure yet
13:01 < wrtlprnft> that was kdcop
13:02 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
13:02 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
13:02 < wrtlprnft> dcop konversation Konversation raw irc.freenode.org quit
13:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:03 < wrtlprnft> worked?
13:03 < z-man> seems so, thanks!
13:03 < wrtlprnft> you're welcome :D
13:03 < z-man> It bounces right back, though
13:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:03 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:04 < wrtlprnft> well, suspend in time :D
13:04 < wrtlprnft> or maybe there's a better command, let me see
13:04 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
13:04 < z-man> I have about two seconds, should be enough. Send message, shut down network, suspend.
13:04 < wrtlprnft> yeah
13:04 < wrtlprnft> and on wakeup it automatically reconnects :D
13:05 < z-man> darn, I forgot. Do I use apm or acpi?
13:06 < wrtlprnft> no idea... suspend doesn't work on my machine :(
13:06 < wrtlprnft> it always crashes X11, and that kinda defeats the purpose
13:06 < z-man> kind of. I'm lucky enough and both work
13:06 < z-man> that's why I don't know which one is active  :)
13:06 < wrtlprnft> well, acpi is "newer"
13:07 < z-man> With kernel 2.4, APM worked better
13:07 < z-man> but in 2.6, ACPI
13:07  * wrtlprnft_konver test
13:07 < wrtlprnft> omg
13:08 < wrtlprnft> there's a command that sends an action to all channels on all networks you're logged on =_o
13:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:10 < z-man> ah, it's APM after all
13:10 < wrtlprnft> did you just suspend?
13:11 < z-man> no, not yet, testing that now
13:12 < wrtlprnft> ah ok
13:13 < Self_Destructo> scanf(''%d'', &n);
13:14 < Self_Destructo> oops
13:14 < wrtlprnft> you need to use " instead of ''
13:14 < Self_Destructo> ?
13:15 < wrtlprnft> assuming this is C code, strings need "..." around them, not ''...''
13:15 < z-man> hmm
13:15 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:15 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:16 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: you mean character arrays
13:16 < luke-jr__> ;)
13:16 < Self_Destructo> err, yes, it's basica C for now
13:16 < Self_Destructo> doing a refresher course..
13:16 < wrtlprnft> don't bother with scanf anyways... use cin
13:16 < Self_Destructo> and was compying several lines of that
13:17 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: cin isn't C
13:17 < wrtlprnft> but c++
13:17 < luke-jr__> and C++ sucks =p
13:17 < Self_Destructo> well, I'm doing what I was told to for not
13:17 < Self_Destructo> now
13:17 < wrtlprnft> and for arma purposes there's no need for legacy C functions :D
13:17 < luke-jr__> except that C > C++
13:18 < Self_Destructo> kinda like, I've always used printf for simple console programs, but he has me use puts sometimes
13:18 < wrtlprnft> pure C sucks
13:18  * z-man doesn't listen
13:18 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:18 < luke-jr__> puts would be for a string
13:18 < luke-jr__> wrtlprnft: pure C > C++
13:18 < Self_Destructo> well, pure C is where I gotta start
13:18 < wrtlprnft> guess so
13:18 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:18 < Self_Destructo> no matter, what, that's where I am starting, especially since I know some of it
13:19 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:19 < luke-jr__> my complain w/ pure C is that you can't have two functions w/ the same name and diff args
13:19 < luke-jr__> complaint*
13:19 < luke-jr__> but that's about it
13:19 < wrtlprnft> you can't? really?
13:19 < luke-jr__> nope
13:19 < wrtlprnft> totally forgot about that
13:20 < luke-jr__> IIRC, the reason C++ lets you is that it has those weird symbol names for funcs
13:20 < wrtlprnft> yes
13:20 < wrtlprnft> mangled ones
13:20 < wrtlprnft> void foo(int) becomes vfooi or something
13:20 < luke-jr__> err, not quite, IIRC
13:21 < luke-jr__> but maybe that's for non-objects or smth
13:21  * wrtlprnft checks
13:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:22 < wrtlprnft> 08048782 T _Z3foov
13:22 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:22 < luke-jr__> QString::fill(QChar) becomes _ZN7QString4fillE5QChari
13:22 < luke-jr__> I think
13:23 < luke-jr__> maybe it's QString::fill(QChar, int)
13:23 < wrtlprnft> void foo(int) becomes Z3fooi, anyways
13:23 < wrtlprnft> *_Z3fooi
13:23 < luke-jr__> yeah
13:23 < luke-jr__> what's Z3 vs ZN7?
13:23 < luke-jr__> oh!
13:23 < luke-jr__> lengths
13:24 < luke-jr__> strlen("QString") == 7
13:24 < luke-jr__> foo is 3
13:24 < wrtlprnft> and fill 4 :D
13:24 < luke-jr__> 'E' (extended?) length 5 'QChar'
13:24  * luke-jr__ begins writing C apps using C++ libs >:)
13:24 < luke-jr__> mwahaha, pure-C Qt
13:24 < wrtlprnft> how crazy is that?
13:25 < luke-jr__> pretty crazy =p
13:26 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
13:26 < luke-jr__> we're crazy enough already
13:26 < luke-jr__> reverse engineering C++ ABI stuff when the source is right there
13:26 < luke-jr__> =p
13:26 < wrtlprnft> how rude... koversation terminated!...
13:27 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:27 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:27  * luke-jr__ pokes z-man 
13:27 < z-man> hey, I'm testing suspend stuff
13:28 < z-man> don't get me into your holy war
13:28 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:28 < luke-jr__> z-man: Whatever, I'm planning to use C++ libs from pure C
13:28 < wrtlprnft> we were just trying to reverse- engineer those function names
13:28 < z-man> good luck
13:28 < z-man> I think there is a library that does that
13:29 < luke-jr__> lol, is there?
13:29 < luke-jr__> o.o
13:29 < z-man> it must be, I thing gdb is using it
13:29 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit]
13:29 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:29 < wrtlprnft> there's there's c++filt...
13:29 < luke-jr__> what's that?
13:29 < wrtlprnft> a console command
13:30 < z-man> hey, I didn't ask for that suspend
13:30 < wrtlprnft> lol
13:30 < wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ c++filt _ZN7QString4fillE5QChari                             ~
13:30 < wrtlprnft> QString::fill(QChar, int)
13:31 < wrtlprnft> N might stand for namespace
13:31 < wrtlprnft> so after n comes the namespace "path"
13:32 < wrtlprnft> and after E the actual function name
13:32 < luke-jr__> _ZN4hahaEzzzzzzz
13:32 < luke-jr__> N is required, AFAIK
13:32 < wrtlprnft> haha(..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ...)
13:32 < luke-jr__> N and E are paired; both must either be non-present or present
13:32 < wrtlprnft> N seens to be only required if you have a namespace
13:33 < wrtlprnft> that makes more sense
13:33 < luke-jr__> does it?
13:33 < wrtlprnft> E might mean "End of function name"
13:33 < wrtlprnft> so after that come the arguments
13:34 < luke-jr__> _Z4hahaabcdefghijlmnostvwxyz
13:34 < wrtlprnft> _ZN4hahaElol = haha(long, unsigned __int128, long) lol
13:34 < luke-jr__> (long, unsigned __int128, long)
13:34 < wrtlprnft> yeah
13:35 < luke-jr__> (unsigned char, int)
13:36 < wrtlprnft> c++filt _ZN4test4asdf3fooE3bari = test::asdf::foo(bar, int)
13:36 < wrtlprnft> makes perfect sense now :D
13:36 < luke-jr__> ?
13:36 < luke-jr__> oh
13:36 < wrtlprnft> Now I get how they're created
13:37 < wrtlprnft> if you leave the E it doesn't know where the arguments start
13:37 < wrtlprnft> *omit
13:38 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["tttt"]
13:41 < spidey> wrtl
13:41 < spidey> you familar with php?
13:42 < Self_Destructo> hehe, lol
13:42 < spidey> hmm
13:43 < wrtlprnft> a bit
13:43 < spidey> you wouldn't know how to start a program via php from a remote webserver?
13:43 < wrtlprnft> system()?
13:43 < spidey> hmm
13:43 < wrtlprnft> but it only works if save_mode is off
13:43 < spidey> k
13:44 < luke-jr__> popen()?
13:44 < wrtlprnft> system is simpler if you don't want the output
13:44 < spidey> got webhosting,guy said if i installed the game server and all that i could run it from the account
13:44 < wrtlprnft> I use popen for eliza :D
13:44 < spidey> but i dunno how to start it from a linux webserver
13:44 < spidey> only done it on windows
13:44 < wrtlprnft> without SSH access?
13:45 < spidey> yea
13:45 < wrtlprnft> can you make a testfile that contains <?php phpinfo() ?> and open it in your browser?
13:45 < wrtlprnft> with a .php ending
13:45 < wrtlprnft> and search for save_mode
13:45 < spidey> not yet,still waiting for the paypal info to go through the bank
13:46 < spidey> they're slow around here >.>
13:46 < wrtlprnft> if safe_mode is on you have no chance
13:46 < spidey> k
13:46 < wrtlprnft> if it is off I don't know... it might actually work... but it's awkward, anyways
13:47 < spidey> it'll work
13:47 < spidey> i've seen someone do it
13:47 < spidey> i just don't know how
13:47 < spidey> on linux anyways :/
13:47 < luke-jr__> system("/path/to/start-server-script &")
13:48 < spidey> k,i'll try it in a bit(whenever the paypal info goes through) >.>
13:49 < luke-jr__> I hope Google's PayPal-killer is usable soon
13:49 < luke-jr__> PayPal needs to be killed
13:49 < spidey> lol
13:51 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: so the size tag is limited and both width and height must be equal...
13:51 < Self_Destructo> umm, i set it to 2 different settings, and I didn't have any problems...
13:55 < Self_Destructo> also, i was looking at the global settings,,, and with all the settings in there... is there a planned MP3 player or something?
13:56 < Self_Destructo> blah er...
13:56 < Self_Destructo> whoa
13:56 < Self_Destructo> i have to chat windows
13:56 < Self_Destructo> or rather entries
13:56 < Self_Destructo> hrm, it type here too
13:56 < Self_Destructo> hrm, ok i type here..
13:56 < Self_Destructo> lol
13:56 < Self_Destructo> dumb
13:57 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: if you set it to different values it gets stretched i think
13:57 < wrtlprnft> it isn't a square anymore with the default map
13:58 < wrtlprnft> and yes, there is a music player, but that's lucifer's buisness
14:00 < Self_Destructo> ok
14:01 < Self_Destructo> thx for using armabot..., my highlight script doesn't work
14:01 < wrtlprnft> highlight script?
14:01 < Self_Destructo> but it does tell me when someone pm's me
14:01 < wrtlprnft> hehe
14:01 < wrtlprnft> #tell wrtlprnft [f]
14:02 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo: it highlightes it and tell me someone said my name, or it's supposed to
14:02 < Self_Destructo> sd, like that
14:02 < Self_Destructo> #tell wrtlprnft [f]
14:02 < wrtlprnft> for me it only does if i'm not in that window
14:02 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR: yeah, same here i guess
14:02 < Self_Destructo> GRRR
14:03 < wrtlprnft> ?!
14:03 < Self_Destructo> i gott to do err and not er
14:03  * wrtlprnft is confused now
14:03 < Self_Destructo> or it will put someone that has er in thier anme and fill thier name in there
14:03 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR: see
14:03 < Self_Destructo> see, see
14:03 < Self_Destructo> err,see
14:04 < Self_Destructo> err, see
14:04 < Self_Destructo> MaZuffeR:
14:04 < Self_Destructo> err,
14:04 < Self_Destructo> see what I mean?
14:04 < wrtlprnft> is it that thing that when you type se: blah it expands it to Self_Destructo: blah?
14:05 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:05 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: test
14:05 < wrtlprnft> i see
14:05 < Self_Destructo> but for my self i have to type self
14:05 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo:
14:05 < wrtlprnft> /set completion_auto off
14:05 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo:
14:05 < wrtlprnft> that works in irssi
14:05 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:06 < Self_Destructo> umm, well, i want the suto completion...
14:06 < Self_Destructo> i just forget sometimes about how it reacts
14:06 < Self_Destructo> how far from getting that layout done?
14:06 < wrtlprnft> what about tab?
14:07 < wrtlprnft> currently quite far since you threw that new XML format at me
14:08 < Self_Destructo> tab?
14:08 < wrtlprnft> press se<tab>blah
14:08 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: blah
14:08 < Self_Destructo> Self_Destructo: aha
14:08 < wrtlprnft> waaay better than this creepy auto thing
14:08 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: aha
14:09  * wrtlprnft tests with Self_Destructo and luke-jr__ and deja_vu 
14:09 < Self_Destructo> lemme see if it works if i turn the auto thing off
14:09 < wrtlprnft> it does
14:09  * deja_vu glares at wrtlprnft 
14:09 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft hi luke-jr__ hi n54 hi deja_vu hi
14:09 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:10 < wrtlprnft> :D
14:10  * wrtlprnft resists the urge to type #wakespam
14:10  * deja_vu throws Self_Destructo a confused look :p
14:10 < Self_Destructo> hehe
14:10 < Self_Destructo> #wakespam
14:10 < armabot> Self_Destructo: armabot, cusco, deja_vu, guru3, joda_bot, luke-jr__, MaZuffeR, n54, Self_Destructo, spidey, wejp, and wrtlprnft
14:11 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:11 < Self_Destructo> i didn't know what it did
14:11 < wrtlprnft> wasn't me
14:11 < guru3> what
14:11 < Self_Destructo> so i was curious
14:11 < Self_Destructo> sorry
14:11  * Self_Destructo was too curious
14:12 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you can always type #help wakespam
14:12 < Self_Destructo> #help wakespam
14:12 < armabot> Self_Destructo: (wakespam <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "channel nicks $channel".
14:12 < Self_Destructo> doesn't help much
14:12  * wrtlprnft resists the urge to tell Self_Destructo to try #ignoreme
14:12 < Self_Destructo> haha
14:13 < Self_Destructo> that one is well implied
14:13 < wrtlprnft> better make a better alias for it...
14:13 < wrtlprnft> #alias add surprise ignoreme
14:13 < armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
14:14 < deja_vu> ^^
14:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:14 < wrtlprnft> wb z-man 
14:15 < Self_Destructo> z-man: WB
14:15 < wrtlprnft> actually you still timed out :(
14:15 < z-man> Don't hello-spam :)
14:15 < z-man> yes
14:15 < Self_Destructo> lol
14:16 < z-man> Two problems: the message doesn't arrive in time, and from the suspend script, the DCOP server is unreachable.
14:16 < z-man> I had the same trouble with activating a locking screen saver on suspend.
14:16  * Self_Destructo turn on some Bluegrass music and studies programming...
14:16 < wrtlprnft> ? is it bad if I say hello a second after you joined?
14:16 < z-man> wrtlprnft: no, but it's not like the arrival of someone new in a chat channel is something noteworthy (IMHO)
14:17 < z-man> Not going into "Hi" "Hi back" fireworks prevents a lot of communication clutter
14:18 < z-man> That is, of course, if you actually have something to tell me, starting with a nice "Hi" is welcome :
14:18 < z-man> )
14:18 < z-man> :)
14:18 < wrtlprnft> well, i told you you timed out
14:18 < z-man> oh, right.
14:18 < z-man> I guess that counts.
14:18  * wrtlprnft knows that's a bad excuse since when he said wb he didn't think about saying that
14:19 < Self_Destructo> z-man: did you see if my server is detected on the server list?
14:19 < z-man> Which server?
14:20 < Self_Destructo> mine, ~''XzL...
14:20 < wrtlprnft> with the current config system, is there a way to specify a callback that gets called if the value gets changed?
14:21 < wrtlprnft> I could use that for the COCKPIT_FILE and ROTATION_FILE settings...
14:21 < wrtlprnft> the current code just caches the old value and checks every 100 frames, which isn't exactly elegant
14:23 < z-man> Self_Destructo: yes, I see it and can join.
14:23 < Self_Destructo> ok
14:23 < Self_Destructo> , hrm
14:23 < z-man> wrtlprnft: no, you'd have to add it.
14:24 < wrtlprnft> well, then, guess I will
14:24 < wrtlprnft> I need it for the font stuff as well
14:24 < wrtlprnft> it needs to reload the font if font_type changes or the screen becomes a mess
14:26 < Self_Destructo> z-man: hrm, it's not on the list for me or anyone else.
14:26 < Self_Destructo> and I've restarted it several times
14:27 < Self_Destructo> grr, i keep putting an '';'' at then end of my if (expression)
14:28 < wrtlprnft> aww that sucks, I know
14:28 < wrtlprnft> it's even more stupid after a while or for
14:28 < wrtlprnft> stupid = hard to debug for a beginner
14:29 < Self_Destructo> yeah
14:29 < z-man> Self_Destructo: hmm, right, the master servers don't seem to know about it, I had it still in my frommaster.srv
14:32 < z-man> Self_Destructo: that's strange, it appears in the logs just fine
14:32 < wrtlprnft> z-man: would I put the callback pointer into tConfItemBase or tConfItem?
14:32 < z-man> oh wait, that's MBC
14:32 < z-man> Base
14:32 < wrtlprnft> ok
14:34 < z-man> Self_Destructo: the last lifesign from your server to my master server is six days old
14:34 < z-man> But it doesn't say contact was lost
14:35 < Self_Destructo> yeah... but waht happened i wonder...
14:35 < Self_Destructo> hm
14:35 < z-man> you have TALK_TO_MASTER set to 1, right?
14:36 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:36 < Self_Destructo> i double checked it last night
14:39 < z-man> and the connection data still should be
14:40 < Self_Destructo> yes
14:43 < Self_Destructo> have you guys ever heard bluegress before?
14:45 < z-man> Only in some cheesy movie
14:45 < z-man> Self_Destructo: I added your server manually, I don't know what may have happened
14:45 < Self_Destructo> ok, we had to add it manually last time remeber?
14:46 < z-man> Oh, right, it was on blues brothers 2000
14:46 < Self_Destructo> :)
14:46 < z-man> I remember I had to add someone manually, yes.
14:46 < Self_Destructo> that was me ;)
14:47 < Self_Destructo> z-man: thanks
14:47 < z-man> np
14:48 < z-man> Perhaps some firewall blocks outgoing connections from you
14:48 < Self_Destructo> hm, may
15:01 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-016-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
15:01 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-067-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
15:22 < Self_Destructo> z-man: need some help
15:22 < z-man> with what?
15:22 < Self_Destructo> while (esum <= 100 || osum <= 100) {
15:22 < Self_Destructo> scanf(''%d'', &n);
15:22 < Self_Destructo> if (n % 2 ==0)
15:22 < Self_Destructo> esum += n;
15:22 < Self_Destructo> else
15:22 < Self_Destructo> osum += n;
15:23 < Self_Destructo> }
15:23 < Self_Destructo> C
15:23 < Self_Destructo> this works...
15:23 < Self_Destructo> but it doesn't stop until both esum and isum go over 100.. why?
15:23 < z-man> it sums all entered even numbers in esum, and the odds in osum?
15:23 < Self_Destructo> yes
15:24 < z-man> 'while' continues while the condition is true
15:24 < z-man> and 'a || b' is true while a OR b is true
15:24 < Self_Destructo> ok, that should be an &&
15:24 < z-man> right
15:24 < Self_Destructo> dumb, i thought that at first :/
15:25 < Self_Destructo> ok, ty
15:25 < Self_Destructo> SWEET, my first C program I wrote right the first time like they wanted it
15:28 < Self_Destructo> crap
15:28 < Self_Destructo> he wanted switches
15:28 < Self_Destructo> easy enough I guess
15:28 < Self_Destructo> so many different way to do things :/
--- Log opened Sat May 06 15:51:45 2006
15:51 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:51 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
15:51 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
15:53 < wrtlprnft> d'oh. Don't recompile your network kernel modules with gcc 3.4 if the kernel was compiled with 3.3
15:57 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
15:57 < Self_Destructo> #chatlog
--- Log opened Sat May 06 15:59:07 2006
15:59 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:59 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
15:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 11 secs
15:59 < Self_Destructo> works fine now
15:59 < z-man> oh, ok
15:59 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:59 < z-man> I apparently misinterpreted "still the same thing, grr"
15:59 < Self_Destructo> he just wanted me to use switch instead of if and else
16:00 < Self_Destructo> but my way still does the same thing
16:00 < z-man> right
16:00 < z-man> switch is only useful if there are more than two choices
16:00 < Self_Destructo> i dunno if it was for practice, or because switch is more efficeint...
16:00 < wrtlprnft_> actually, is switch any faster than if and elseif?
16:00 < z-man> it can be
16:01 < Self_Destructo> in this case it wasn't, i figure
16:01 < z-man> switch can work with function pointer arrays internally
16:01 < Self_Destructo> yeah, that's next /
16:01 < wrtlprnft_> you mean, like an array of adresses for goto calls?
16:01 < z-man> wrtlprnft_: yes
16:01 < Self_Destructo> yes
16:02 < wrtlprnft_> only works if your possible values are close together i guess
16:02 < z-man> right
16:02 < Self_Destructo> yeah
16:02 < z-man> Which is usually the case with a switch on an enum
16:02 < wrtlprnft_> yeah
16:03 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:03 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: btw, you should make size for you cockpit map <Size value=''0.w/e'' />
16:04 < Self_Destructo> instead of xsize and ysize
16:04 < Self_Destructo> so people don't make a mistake and get in out of proportion
16:05 < wrtlprnft> huh?
16:05 < wrtlprnft> isn't it <Size width=".5" height=".2" />?
16:05 < wrtlprnft> for bar gauges you need that
16:05 < Self_Destructo> yeah, i was going off the top of my head
16:06 < Self_Destructo> <Map camera=''*'' viewport=''top''>
16:06 < Self_Destructo> 	 <Position x=''0.60'' y=''-0.55'' />
16:06 < Self_Destructo> 	 <Size height=''0.45'' width=''0.50'' />
16:06 < Self_Destructo> 	</Map>
16:06 < wrtlprnft> where's the point in limiting the user's ability to specify the dimensions of an object?
16:06 < Self_Destructo> for the map specifically
16:06 < wrtlprnft> uh, can you tell your client to use " instead of ''?
16:06 < Self_Destructo> because now, a square map isn't square anymore
16:07 < wrtlprnft> actually that's a bug
16:07 < wrtlprnft> once i fully understand jonathan's code I want to make the map fit into the rectangle
16:07 < Self_Destructo> oook
16:07 < wrtlprnft> without stretching it
16:08 < Self_Destructo> but, which one are you going to go by?
16:08 < Self_Destructo> height or width?
16:08 < wrtlprnft> depends
16:08 < wrtlprnft> make the map as big as possible while still fitting in the width and height
16:08 < Self_Destructo> because one of them's gotta be the dominator
16:09 < Self_Destructo> true, but why? why not just keep it square?
16:09 < wrtlprnft> if your map is a bit higher than wide and the <Size> tag has a way bigger height than width the height will count
16:09 < Self_Destructo> then you have nothing to worry about
16:10 < wrtlprnft> because then I need two different size tags?
16:10 < Self_Destructo> yes
16:10 < wrtlprnft> well, that sucks
16:10 < Self_Destructo> that will work
16:11 < Self_Destructo> ok, anyways...
16:11 < Self_Destructo> scaling will work
16:14 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: the wiki is mediawiki right?
16:14 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
16:14 < Self_Destructo> hey
16:14 < Self_Destructo> the wiki is mediawiki right?
16:14 < wrtlprnft> yes
16:24 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: have you tried entering a nonexistent cockpit file yet?
16:25 < wrtlprnft> i know it crashes
16:26 < wrtlprnft> but i didn't find out what's wrong yet :(
16:28 < Lucifer_arma> yeah, the wiki is mediawiki, why?
16:29 < n54> hi
--- Log opened Sat May 06 16:33:07 2006
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16:33 < Lucifer_arma> but there's some new features on wikipedia that make me think the new version of mediawiki might have stuff in it that helps.  It's on my todo list to check, but low priority
16:33 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:34 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:34 < wrtlprnft> grr
16:34 < Self_Destructo> yeah, I've noticed some of thier pages on thier ''mediawiki'' website are locked
16:36 < Self_Destructo> a guy sure has to put alot of time into making his own cockpit
16:36 < Lucifer_arma> http://www.drupalsites.net/  <-- sites that use Drupal
16:36 < Lucifer_arma> that is correct :)
16:36 < Self_Destructo> figures :
16:37 < Self_Destructo> lol, i looked are your luci and it is ''sick''
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> hopefully we'll all be commenting our cockpits well, and sometime in the future you'll make one by copying one of the others and modifying it to suit, but we're not there yet
16:37 < Self_Destructo> yours
16:37 < Self_Destructo> yeah
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> :)  Try playing it
16:37 < Self_Destructo> hehe
16:37 < Self_Destructo> i did
16:37 < Self_Destructo> not fun :(
16:37 < Lucifer_arma> ?  I love it.
16:38 < wrtlprnft> take mine :D
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i don't like a map centered, because that gets in the way of my view
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> Can't really go into why, I guess, but I like the map being right there, and everything else being right there next to the cycle.
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i don't like yours either wrtl
16:38 < wrtlprnft> then make your own
16:38 < Self_Destructo> i am
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> yeah, make your own.  :)  The more the merrier
16:38 < Self_Destructo> didn't you see what i said?
16:38 < Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: umm, need to straighten out the coordinate system
16:38 < wrtlprnft> uh, I missed a bit
16:39 < wrtlprnft> what's missing?
16:39 < Self_Destructo> 16:35 � ( Self_Destructo ) a guy sure has to put alot of time into making his own cockpit
16:39 < Lucifer_arma> some gauges disappear when I go to full-screen mode because of my aspect ratio
16:39 < Self_Destructo> in other words, i was implying that i was making one
16:39 < Lucifer_arma> gauges near the top disappear
16:39 < wrtlprnft> that's hard to change...
16:40 < wrtlprnft> the only thing i can do is compress them
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> so y needs to be [-1, 1] just like x somehow.  Not sure how...
16:40 < Self_Destructo> mediawiki uses SVN
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> hmm, does the cockpit respect the internal aspect ratio setting?
16:40 < Lucifer_arma> I could try to finally straighten out my aspect ratio in the game.  :)
16:41 < wrtlprnft> actually I could, now
16:41 < wrtlprnft> fonts don't have separate width and height settings anymore, so they don't care about being squished i think
16:42 < wrtlprnft> and rectangles and stuff doesn't really care either
17:03 < wrtlprnft> finally found the problem... arma doesn't crash anymore with a non- existent resource :)
17:04 < Self_Destructo> good :)
17:04 < Self_Destructo> you'll update CVS?
17:05 < wrtlprnft> not yet
17:05 < wrtlprnft> but soon
17:05 < Self_Destructo> umm, how do i set the meter to work up and down instead of side to side?
17:06 < Self_Destructo> #wake wrtlprnft
17:06 < wrtlprnft> look at my cockpit file ;=
17:06 < wrtlprnft> * ;)
17:06 < Self_Destructo> ooook
17:06 < Self_Destructo> :)
17:07 < wrtlprnft> it uses more or less all the features this system has :)
17:07 < Self_Destructo> k
17:08 < Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm
17:09 < n54> :)
17:11 < n54> lol I know that picture, it's a failed russion private enterprise but still an interesting vessel
17:11 < n54> journalists suck
17:11 < n54> I bet they picked it on purpose but forgot to add an explanation
17:13 < Self_Destructo> lol, talked via wordpad?
17:13 < n54> the guy has really changed his story quite a bit since first I read about him... :S
17:13 < Self_Destructo> haha, like a VNC connection
17:18 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: so basically you defined a shape
17:19 < wrtlprnft> ?
17:20 < wrtlprnft> there's a VerticalBarGauge tag
17:21 < Self_Destructo> see
17:22  * wrtlprnft sees nothing
17:31 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:40 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
17:49 < Lucifer_arma> that guy's crazy
17:49 < Lucifer_arma> one thing all these ufologists seem to neglect to provide is a strong and compelling motivation for the government to keep these things secret
17:50 < Lucifer_arma> they give strong and compelling motivations for making this stuff known, and that's what defeats the argument
17:50 < Lucifer_arma> they just assume "government corruption" is good enough, and it's just not
17:51 < Self_Destructo> nope, it isn't
17:52 < n54> yeah I'm willing to admit the possibility of ufo's as alien visiters and whatnot but not the claims of the average "believer"
17:52 < n54> makes for great tv though :)
17:53 < n54> the guy is just making his story juicy and trying to play up fears about "going to guantanmo" and lots of other bs to escape the consequences of his actions
17:54 < n54> he has basically admitted to being a scriptkiddie so I don't truly care what happens to hiim
17:56 < Self_Destructo> scriptkiddie :)
17:56 < Self_Destructo> haven't heard that in a while
17:57 < n54> well that's good I guess :)
18:00 < n54> on flying things: always liked the idea of vertical airships like this http://www.airship.org/
18:06 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087079F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:15 < Self_Destructo> n54: interesting ships
18:16 < n54> nice looking imo :)
18:19 < Self_Destructo> ROFL
18:19  * n54 can't believe he said that of what amounts to 20-30 polycons of a flattened barrel hehe
18:19 < n54> but still.. :)
18:19 < Self_Destructo> I don't know what I did, but I open 16 instances of AA
18:20 < Self_Destructo> and I'm really having a hard time getting them off
18:20 < Self_Destructo> like popups
18:20 < n54> hehe
18:20 < Self_Destructo> down to 9 now
18:22 < Self_Destructo> lol, finally got them all off
18:27 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: can you write a DTD for your file? I need it, the XML parser refuses to load the rotation file
18:28 < Self_Destructo> i can, but not today
18:28 < Self_Destructo> :(
18:29 < wrtlprnft> I'll commit it anyways, all it does is emit an error
18:29 < Self_Destructo> ok
18:29 < Self_Destructo> I'll take it home and work on it over the weekend, even if all I can do is write it on a sheet of paper
18:29 < Self_Destructo> then i don't have alot of the thinking to do, i just got to type it in
18:31 < wrtlprnft> :)
18:32  * Self_Destructo wants a laptop
18:33  * wrtlprnft wants a laptop with free internet access everywhere
18:33 < Self_Destructo> hehe
18:34 < Self_Destructo> lvalue and r value are what?
18:34 < Self_Destructo> rvalue*
18:35 < wrtlprnft> rvalue is something you read from, and lvalue is something you write into
18:35 < wrtlprnft> lvalue = rvalue
18:35 < wrtlprnft> or lvalue < rvalue
18:35 < wrtlprnft> where internally lvalue's operator< gets called
18:35 < Self_Destructo> ok
18:36 < Self_Destructo> k
18:36 < wrtlprnft> committed... can you tell me if the bugs are fixed now?
18:36 < wrtlprnft> fullscreen and resource crash
18:37 < Self_Destructo> k
18:40 < Self_Destructo> i'm now starting to get a cockpit I like
18:41  * Self_Destructo is now compiling
18:45 < Lucifer_arma> fullscreen as in "gauges disappear in full screen on weird aspect ratios"?
18:46 < wrtlprnft> no
18:46 < wrtlprnft> as in "fonts get transformed to big blocks"
18:47 < wrtlprnft> I don't have a real solution for the gauge stuff...
18:47 < Lucifer_arma> scale the x and y coordinates to the aspect ratio?
18:48 < wrtlprnft> that helps for slight differences, but that's about it
18:48 < wrtlprnft> if you have some super- wide screen it'll totally deform everything
18:48 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: did you get my rotator ready?
18:48 < wrtlprnft> kinda, yes
18:49 < wrtlprnft> but it only throws an error because the DTD is missing
18:49 < n54> make avilable the use of pixel sizes not just relative ones? that would be my suggestion
18:50 < wrtlprnft> we support resplutions from 320xsomething to over 1024x678... pixels just don't make sense in that context
18:50 < Self_Destructo> Linking executable: Armagetron.exe
18:50 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x171df): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
18:50 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17fd9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
18:50 < Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:50 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (7 minutes, 49 seconds)
18:50 < Self_Destructo> 0 errors, 38 warnings
18:50 < Self_Destructo> it compiled... sorta
18:50 < n54> another additional measuring unit could be a percentage vertical in pixels and then used both for vertical and horisontal as a unit
18:50 < wrtlprnft> uh, you're missing files
18:51 < n54> the last one would be scalable in any way
18:51 < Self_Destructo> hrm, it's not linking the executable
18:51 < wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you need to get src/tron/gRotation.cpp and src/tron/gRotation.h
18:52 < wrtlprnft> they are in CVS
18:52 < Lucifer_arma> you dont' use pixels anyway.  You need to be able to take a measure of the width and height and convert the coordinates given in the xml file to the actual onscreen coordinates
18:53 < wrtlprnft> and you probably need to get codeblocks to use them while compiling... probably you need to run some script again
18:53 < Lucifer_arma> the wiki explains the coordinate system, does the code know that that is the coordinate system?  i.e. does the code know how tall the display is?
18:53 < wrtlprnft> I *could* do that with sr_screenWidth/Height
18:54 < wrtlprnft> the wiki mentions that the top coordinate varies at different screen proportions
18:54 < wrtlprnft> at least i hope so
18:54 < Lucifer_arma> yes, it does.  But that's not terribly important.  :)  What's important is providing coordinates in the xml file that don't vary and converting them on the fly to the coordinates actually in use
18:55 < Lucifer_arma> in mathguy, I set everything up to use virtual pixels and a resolution of 1000x1000, then wrote a converter to convert to actual screen size
18:55 < Lucifer_arma> it turned out not to be as useful as I thought and I got rid of it, but the idea is still the same
18:55 < wrtlprnft> but then you either deform the widgets or risk having them ovelapping
18:56 < Lucifer_arma> deforming the widgets is acceptable as long as its consistent with the rest of the game's own deformation
18:56 < wrtlprnft> does the game deform anything?
18:56 < Lucifer_arma> and if it works with custom_aspect_ratio, which doesn't work at all afaik
18:57 < Lucifer_arma> yes, the whole game is deformed.  Haven't you noticed in my screenshots?  Jonathan bitches everytime I post a screenshot that the game is deformed
18:57 < wrtlprnft> uh, not really, they're scaled down
18:57 < Lucifer_arma> :)  Click and look at them at 1:1
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> I've gotten used to it, but it would be nice if I could finally correct for it
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> hmmm.....
18:58 < wrtlprnft> ah, there's one. some of yours are scaled down even in the full vies
18:58 < wrtlprnft> w
18:58 < Lucifer_arma> then get a browser that works :)
18:58 < wrtlprnft> and now i still don't see anything since it's bigger than my screen
18:59 < wrtlprnft> scaled down to something like .7 now, and I don't see a lot of deformation...
18:59 < Lucifer_arma> you don't get scrollbars?  You can scroll to something you should recognize, like the map, or a cycle or something, and see it
18:59 < wrtlprnft> I do get scrollbars, of course
18:59  * wrtlprnft gets out a ruler for the map
18:59  * wrtlprnft uses kruler :D
19:00 < wrtlprnft> now i see after I counted pixels... but not terrible
19:01 < wrtlprnft> the map shouldn't be deformed, as i said i have to fix that once I manage to fully understand jonathan's scaling code...
19:03 < Lucifer_arma> no hud in cvs head?
19:03 < wrtlprnft> err
19:03 < wrtlprnft> there should be
19:04 < wrtlprnft> does it print an error? anything?
19:05 < Lucifer_arma> custom_screen_aspect doesn't do anything, apparently, but it's set to 1.6 for some reason
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> no, no error that I could see
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> when I did make install it worked fine with my cockpit
19:06 < Lucifer_arma> maybe it just didn't find the resource.  :)  Did you change the default or something to test the broken resource code?
19:08 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:08  * Self_Destructo is compiling again
19:10 < wrtlprnft> no i didn't
19:10 < Lucifer_arma> hmmm, the old problem with split screen getting totally deformed is gone.  Maybe z-man fixed the whole aspect ratio thing awhile back and I never noticed...
19:10 < wrtlprnft> well, the cockpit gets messed up with splitscreen
19:17 < Self_Destructo> grrr
19:17 < Self_Destructo> mingw32-g++.exe: ..\armagetronad\src\tron\gSensor.cpp: No such file or directory
19:17 < Self_Destructo> mingw32-g++.exe: no input files
19:17 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (7 minutes, 7 seconds)
19:17 < wrtlprnft> uh
19:18 < Self_Destructo> heh
19:18 < Self_Destructo> it's there
19:18 < wrtlprnft> I didn't change anything there...
19:18 < Self_Destructo> i just clicked build and it moved on
19:18 < Self_Destructo> i dunno what that was all about though
19:18 < wrtlprnft> does it work now?
19:18 < Self_Destructo> still compiling
19:19 < Self_Destructo> oh, and thanks for all the comments
19:19 < wrtlprnft> doesn't it have incremental compiling?
19:19 < wrtlprnft> oh, yw... will still be hard enough for you to build on ;)
19:19 < Self_Destructo> looks like it
19:20 < wrtlprnft> I'm using templates, iterators, polymorphism, ... lotsa stuff
19:20  * wrtlprnft strongly recommends http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/contents.html
19:20 < Self_Destructo> because i know no C++ and I don't know the code behind the program either
19:21 < wrtlprnft> for not knowing c++ that link helps a lot
19:21 < Self_Destructo> do they got that in PDF form?
19:21 < wrtlprnft> yes
19:21 < Self_Destructo> where?
19:21 < Self_Destructo> i'll print it and read it in the evenings
19:21 < wrtlprnft> you should use that link anyways: http://www.icce.rug.nl/documents/cplusplus/cplusplus.html
19:21 < wrtlprnft> in that italic text at the beginning is a link
19:22 < Self_Destructo> grrr
19:22 < Self_Destructo> Linking executable: Armagetron.exe
19:22 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x171df): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
19:22 < Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17fd9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
19:22 < Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:22 < Self_Destructo> Process terminated with status 1 (1 minutes, 0 seconds)
19:22 < Self_Destructo> gRotation::HandleNewRound()' must be our problem...
19:22 < wrtlprnft> same error I guess
19:22 < Self_Destructo> yes, basically
19:22 < wrtlprnft> that means it doesn't link/compile my files
19:23 < wrtlprnft> you have to add them to the project somehow
19:28 < Self_Destructo> ok, i added them to the project
19:28 < Self_Destructo> :)
19:28  * wrtlprnft prays for Self_Destructo 
19:29 < Self_Destructo> ok
19:30 < Self_Destructo> font trouble is fixed...
19:30 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@adsl-64-216-140-122.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
19:30 < wrtlprnft> :)
19:30 < Self_Destructo> but there is NO cockpit!!!!!!!!!!!
19:30 < Self_Destructo> nothing at all
19:30 < wrtlprnft> none at all
19:30 < Self_Destructo> nothing
19:30 < wrtlprnft> what is cockpit_file set to?
19:32 < Self_Destructo> Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
19:32 < Self_Destructo> ;
19:32 < Self_Destructo> ;)
19:33 < wrtlprnft> ah i see
19:33 < wrtlprnft> I changed the cockpit code to only load the cockpit file if COCKPIT_FILE changes...
19:33 < wrtlprnft> if you leave it at the default value it doesn't change, so nothing gets loaded
19:34 < Self_Destructo> hm
19:35 < Self_Destructo> why did you do that?
19:36 < wrtlprnft> because the old code was ugly
19:36 < wrtlprnft> checked every 100 frames if it changed... that's a hack
19:37 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@adsl-64-216-140-122.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net] has quit ["OUCH!!!"]
19:38 < Self_Destructo> well, this time it changes instantly
19:39 < wrtlprnft> yes
19:39 < wrtlprnft> fixed and committed now
19:39 < Self_Destructo> ok
19:40 < wrtlprnft> no wonder I didn't notice that bug :D
19:40 < wrtlprnft> I always use my own cockpit file
19:41 < Self_Destructo> works fine now :)
19:41 < wrtlprnft> ok.
19:42 < wrtlprnft> what about the font and resource loading bug now?
19:43 < spidey> damn
19:44  * spidey is anti-sleep
19:45 < Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: everything works great
19:45 < wrtlprnft> :)
19:47  * spidey pokes wrtlprnft
19:49  * Self_Destructo is going home
19:49  * Self_Destructo will be back monday
19:51  * Self_Destructo can find his jump drive
19:51 < Self_Destructo> can't*
--- Log opened Sat May 06 20:01:29 2006
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20:04  * wrtlprnft_ pokes spidey 
20:04  * spidey stabs wrtlprnft_
20:04 < spidey> man
20:04 < spidey> i gotta goto sleep soon
20:04 < spidey> i signed yup for that sd tourney
20:04 < spidey> :/
20:04 < wrtlprnft_> lol
20:04 < spidey> up*
20:05 < spidey> been almost 48 hours without sleep
20:05 < wrtlprnft_> pff
20:05 < spidey> so i'ma be out for awhile
20:05 < wrtlprnft_> sleep is just a bad substitute for caffeeine anyways
20:05 < spidey> i'ma play some soldat and get some sleep i guess,
20:05 < spidey> bbl
20:05 -!- spidey is now known as spidey|hibernati
20:06 < spidey|hibernati> +ng
20:06 < spidey|hibernati> damn freenode
20:06 < wrtlprnft_> lol
20:06 < wrtlprnft_> what about SpidyHibernating?
20:07 < wrtlprnft_> or SpdyHbrntng?
20:09 < Self_Destructo> lol
20:10 < Self_Destructo> well, I've giving up and going home, I'll just have to go by memory on writing that DTD.
20:10 < Self_Destructo> cya guys
20:10 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|bbmonday
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Log from 2006-05-07:
--- Day changed Sun May 07 2006
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01:26 <Lucifer_arma> I want a script or a program that will slice a picture into smaller pictures so I can cut up the font picture and bring its individual glyph into the ttf font composer
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02:22 <Lucifer_arma> anybody want a truetype version of the old font?  :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft Started a truetype version of the old font.  Check the New font stuff thread...
02:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:23 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: sure
02:23 <guru3> is it cleaner?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> um, sure.  Except, it only has 2 glyphs.  :)
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> but those two glyphs are damn pretty!
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> So, as long as all you have to say as "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", you're fine
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05:26 <philippeqc> hi
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07:59 <philippeqc>  /away
08:02 <philippeqc> the sun is shining, the weather is fine but I'm grounded inside, my alergies killing any possibility of enjoying the experience
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08:35 <n54> meh the chatlog isn't all that much good with only lucifer and actions being named... *wonders what broke it*
08:52 <wrtlprnft_> philippeqc: that sucks
08:52 <philippeqc> yep
08:52 <philippeqc> but then now I have a good excuse to sit in front of the computer
08:53 <philippeqc> and merge the last 4 weeks changes into my own development
08:53 <n54> it's the sneazy seasion here as well :)
08:53 <n54> season*
08:54 <philippeqc> lol
08:56 <philippeqc> poor lil me
08:57 <n54> ?
08:57 <philippeqc> cant go outside
08:57 <philippeqc> its so nice and sunny
08:58 <n54> meh it's only shiny happy people outside, I'll stay inside thank you very much
08:58 <philippeqc> I was all installed, with something to drink, a good book, but unable to concentrate 
09:04 <n54> which book?
09:06 <wrtlprnft_> yay the arma font is now sufficient to talk about A, B, C, D, and !
09:10 <philippeqc> actually, 3. One scifi novel, one "fact book" (highly recommending it: Guns, Germs and Steel "A short history of everybody in the last 13,000 years") and a C++ book
09:11 <philippeqc> wrtl, I'm in dire need of your help
09:11 <philippeqc> just did a cvs update, and now rFont break everything on include
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> break everything? like what, error message?
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> you need ftgl installed
09:12 <philippeqc> it is
09:13 <philippeqc> and so is freetype2, 
09:13 <wrtlprnft_> has to for ftgl to compile
09:13 <philippeqc> it was working last weekend, now I merged with my code, and I get many warning. I'm recompiling from cvs (without my code) just to be sure
09:13 <philippeqc> it that work, I'll check that I did run ./bootstrap.sh
09:14 -!- spidey|hibernati is now known as spidey
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> wow. You didn't sleep much longer than me spidey 
09:14 <n54> or me :S
09:14 <spidey> how long'd you sleep?
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> from about 30 minutes after you left to about 30 minutes before you came
09:15 <n54> guess I win then :P
09:15 <spidey> what time did i leave?
09:15 <spidey> lol
09:15  * n54 curses phones
09:15 <spidey> man i miss mirc
09:15 <spidey> it has a away script >.>
09:15  * spidey is now playing: Eminem - Role Model
09:15 <wrtlprnft_> #last --from spidey --with bbl
09:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: [20:05:52] <spidey> bbl
09:16 <n54> #time
09:16 <armabot> n54: 09:16 AM, May 07, 2006
09:16 <philippeqc> hummm
09:16  * wrtlprnft_ is now playing: Armagetron Advanced: Yet another ligtcycle game
09:16 <spidey> man
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> *lightcycle
09:16 <spidey> watch this
09:16 <philippeqc> a pure cvs update -d and all configuration works, but not the one with my merged code
09:16 <spidey> spidey (5/6/2006 9:51:52 PM): k,night love  
09:16 <spidey> Midget (5/6/2006 9:52:16 PM): nigh hun
09:16 <spidey> i went to sleep at 10pm
09:16 <spidey> my time
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> well, then either something's wrong with your code or your merging philippeqc ;)
09:17 <philippeqc> such insight!
09:17 <philippeqc> ;)
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you go anywhere near fonts?
09:17 <philippeqc> nada
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you use rTextField or friends?
09:17 <philippeqc> nope
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> weird
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> what files did you change?
09:18  * wrtlprnft_ would like to be able to hand that over to #eliza
09:18 <philippeqc> gWinzone* gParser* Makefile.am
09:18 <philippeqc> who is eliza?
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> #eliza hi there
09:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
09:18 <n54> a computer parrot emulation :)
09:19 <philippeqc> lol
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> n54: no, that would be #echo
09:19 <n54> well actually, that's wrong as parrots are fairly intelligent
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> #parrot hi there!
09:19 <armabot> hi there!
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:37:28: error: FTGLPixmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:38:28: error: FTGLBitmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:39:29: error: FTGLTextureFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:40:29: error: FTGLPolygonFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <n54> so eliza/freud is no parrot emulation
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> did you rerun configure
09:20 <philippeqc> yes
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> and do the gcc commands include -I*FTGL?
09:20 <philippeqc> DEBUGLEVEL=3 CODELEVEL=2 ../configure
09:21 <philippeqc> of course it doesnt
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> look at one of the gcc commands it prints...
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> do they contain  -I/usr/include/FTGL?
09:22 <philippeqc> no it doenst
09:22 <philippeqc> oooo
09:22 <philippeqc> wait
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> then there's something wrong with the makefiles
09:22 <philippeqc> I must have made cvs update from src
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> lol
09:22 <philippeqc> yep
09:23 <philippeqc> knowing its a stupid mistake never help to fix it, doesnt it?
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> nope
09:23 <philippeqc> you still need to figure which is the one in question
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> yes
09:23 <philippeqc> reminds me of a dilbert strip
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> that reminds me of the ;- after 
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> for/while error
09:24 <philippeqc> the boss comes to Alice and say "I've noticed that the right solution is always the last thing you try. I'd like you to change that"
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> works now?
09:25 <n54> lol
09:25 <philippeqc> compiling
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> if it's still compiling that error must be gone
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> or probably not
09:26 <philippeqc> for me it took a while before reaching this point
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> yeah, right
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> FTGL* is included from rFont.cpp, not rFont.h
09:26 <philippeqc> yes
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> we should really limit our conversation in ther to the characters "ABCD!"
09:27 <philippeqc> compiled
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> then I could test the new font :D
09:27 <philippeqc> Aaaa!
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> :D
09:28 <philippeqc> Bad!
09:28 <philippeqc> (you failed)
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> ?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> what's wrong?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> g2g in 2 minutes
09:28 <philippeqc> : is not in the font
09:28 <philippeqc> its good
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> but?
09:28 <philippeqc> forget it
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> well then, cya
09:29 <philippeqc> I dont have a color prob anymore
09:29 <philippeqc> thanks for the help
09:29 <philippeqc> cya
09:47 <n54> haha has anyone seen the segment "poll smoking" on the daily show? funny stuff :D
09:49 <luke-jr__> ...
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10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 16
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 14
10:56 <philippeqc> #get quote 14
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: The command "get" is available in the Herald, Praise, and Quote plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "get".
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 16
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #16: "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. - Brian Kernighan" (added by wrtlprnft at 04:21 PM, May 03, 2006)
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 17
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: There is no Quote with id #17 in my database for #armagetron.
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 15
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #15: "You see a body ripped appart, blood splatter on the ceiling, gore all over. Tell me, would you really suspect that worm making a run for it toward the door at 5 cm per minute? No you would not! - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 01:09 PM, April 25, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 1
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #1: "Was this compiled by our friend Sum Ting Wong? --WallyWallWhackr" (added by Lucifer_arma at 11:37 PM, March 23, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 2
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 3
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #3: "um, try spelling it wirght :) -- Lucifer" (added by Lucifer_arma at 10:22 PM, March 26, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 4
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #4: "left vertical bar is brakes, right one is an early-90s roleplaying game made by White Wolf before they went all Magic: The Gathering happy -- armabot (markov)" (added by wrtlprnft at 10:24 PM, March 26, 2006)
12:22 <n54> lazy sunday :)
12:23 <n54> hmm is quote #15 correct? *thought we changed it to include some more*
12:27 <philippeqc> #quote get 14
12:27 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #14: "On a full moon, Christopher Walken transform in a wereworm. Not as dangerous as a werewolf, but twice as cunning. - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 12:58 PM, April 25, 2006)
12:27 <philippeqc> the "more" is there
12:36 <n54> ooh
12:37 <philippeqc> if you see this as prob, feel free to fix it ;)
12:47 <philippeqc> http://pastebin.com/703794
12:47 <philippeqc> why cant B access A's aa?
12:47 <philippeqc> when J can access I's ii
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> weird
12:54 <wrtlprnft_>   B(): A<T>() { cout << A<T>::aa <<endl;}
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> that works
12:55 <philippeqc> yes, indeed, it is very weird
12:56 <wrtlprnft_> as long as something works...
12:57 <philippeqc> yes, I was about to say that I was ready to use this
12:57 <philippeqc> but I was busy getting myself a glass of wine
12:57 <philippeqc> thanks
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> yw
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> look at my AutoDeque... the syntax is crazy at some places
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque(9
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque()
12:59 <philippeqc> that has its own crazyness
12:59 <wrtlprnft_> Why don't you just make a deque of tValue::Base references?
13:00 <wrtlprnft_> then you could handle different kinds of values in one deque and nested deques
13:00 <philippeqc> I'll have one such
13:00 <philippeqc> but I'll need a deque of <T>
13:01 <wrtlprnft_> if you say so... fine with me, as long ays it works nicely
13:01 <philippeqc> I'm working on a side file
13:02 <philippeqc> for the deque of tValue::Base, I just dont know what it would "mean"
13:02 <wrtlprnft_> it would be nested tValues
13:02 <philippeqc> GetInt() {std::deque<T> asdf; return asdf.front().GetInt();}
13:03 <philippeqc> yes, but there would be many for different needs
13:04 <philippeqc> for my part, I want to build a library of basic operation for the deque<T> over Base, such as "union" "intersection" "difference" "pick one"
13:04 <wrtlprnft_> don't you already have that with generic algorithms?
13:06 <philippeqc> not pick one
13:06 <philippeqc> but yes, I know that union ~ merge
13:06 <philippeqc> and such
13:09 <philippeqc> I'm still exploring, and before I commit, I'll bounce it on you. I'm sure you will be able to point out any faults of concept
13:10 <philippeqc> but I need that support for the zone capacities I've been workign on
13:10 <wrtlprnft_> I won't nitpick, I'm a noob to c++ myself :D
13:12 <philippeqc> I think its conceptually complex, so I'm quite sure I'll make a few concept errors
13:12 <philippeqc> (or at least I feel it is)
13:13 <wrtlprnft_> I'll have a look at it if you like, sure :)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_11.png
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> isn't that a great font? ;)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> so... complete...
13:15 <joda_bot> :)
13:15 <philippeqc> fix 0-9 and we can hex each other
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> lol
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> you can already write "AFFE!"
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> AFFE BAFF!
13:16 <philippeqc> 0x4c0x4f0x4c
13:16 <philippeqc> = lol
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> so i have to fix X as well :D
13:17 <philippeqc> 4c4f4c!
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> (affe = german word for monkey, baff = stunned)
13:17 <philippeqc> pff, who need to encoumber ourself with 0's and x's
13:17 <philippeqc> fad
13:19 <philippeqc> we will all need to brush off our l33t.
13:19 <philippeqc> its a neat font, what is your inspiration? is it the old one?
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> the whole point is to get rid of the old font code while allowing people to stay close to what they're used to
13:21 <wrtlprnft_> But I'd say we shouldn't make it the default
13:21 <philippeqc> I rarely defend a point on the ground of "it was the way it was before"
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> It won't be exactly the old font
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> but a bit like it
13:24 <philippeqc> Well, your doing a good job!
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> thanks!
13:24 <luke-jr__> how are you making it?
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> the A and ! are by luci, though
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> fontforge
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> look in the forums
13:24 <luke-jr__> ?
13:24 <luke-jr__> maybe later
13:25 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47194#47194
13:25 <philippeqc> You really got my hopes high! I dont see any quick way to do the deque union, intersection and subs. Grr
13:26 <wrtlprnft_> kinda hard if they're not sorted
13:26 <philippeqc> O(N*M)
13:27 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:27 <philippeqc> Order of N * M, where N is the size of the first deque, and M the second
13:27 <philippeqc> and if they are sorted, its O(N+M)
13:28 <philippeqc> well, I'll build them for small ranges, and if someone need more performance, he can always improve on them.
13:28 <wrtlprnft_> :)
13:30 <wrtlprnft_> font making with a touchpad is soo much fun, believe me
13:30 <philippeqc> ;)
13:30 <philippeqc> my gf got hers
13:30 <philippeqc> but I havent really tried it
13:31  * wrtlprnft_ just got a mouse from inside :D
13:31 <philippeqc> from inside?
13:31 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:32  * wrtlprnft_ is sitting outside with WLAN
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> sunny here
13:32 <philippeqc> oooooooooooooooo
13:32 <philippeqc> nice
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb".
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, manitoba
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, canada
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> !
13:32 <philippeqc> I trust you
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb, ca
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb, ca".
13:32  * wrtlprnft_ gives up
13:34 <philippeqc> poor you
13:34 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:35 <philippeqc> I beleive in you, its sunny, ok, I get it ;)
13:35 <philippeqc> :P
13:40 <guru3> #weather gothenburg, sweden
13:40 <armabot> guru3: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <guru3> grumble
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sweden
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sverige
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "stockholm, sverige".
13:40 <guru3> n54: english paper 2 tomorrow
13:56 <philippeqc> sooner this week there was a post about backdrop/desktop image from crazy tronner
13:56 <philippeqc> anyone can find back the post
13:58 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3415
14:01 <philippeqc> ha!!! he spelled tronner with only one "n"
14:01 <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what those files even are
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_12.png
14:03 <wrtlprnft_> with a bit of thinking you could almost have a conversation now!
14:03 <guru3> heh
14:04 <philippeqc> WOW
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> I should add the space to the font as well... that's the easiest char I guess
14:04 <guru3> operative word being almost eh?
14:04 <philippeqc> GXXD XXXK!
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> heh. L is in the font
14:05 <philippeqc> There is no L in Good work
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> oh
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> i thought that was good luck
14:05 <guru3> lol
14:05 <philippeqc> you dont seem to need luck, at the rate your going!
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> XX (that means ty)
14:07 <philippeqc> ok
14:07 <philippeqc> cya
14:07 <philippeqc> good night
14:09 <wrtlprnft_> night
14:09 <n54> ah hi guru3 I'm dong too much right now so I haven't kept up with the chat for an hour I think, but best of luck :D I'm just prrofreding a reply to lucifer then I'll start looking through the various irc channels :)
14:09 <n54> doing*
14:10 <guru3> cool
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14:26 <wrtlprnft_> wow. Q is a mess to create...
14:52 <n54> I'm impressed you pick up font forge so quickly:I tried fontforge a long while ago and it had issues then *goes to look at their page to see if I can see any changes*
14:55 <luke-jr__> <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:55 <luke-jr__> guru3: KWrite?
14:55 <luke-jr__> vim? nano?
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: nedit ?
14:56 <luke-jr__> sure
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: no idea though ;)
14:56 <luke-jr__> should be plain text =p
14:57 <luke-jr__> unless he wants syntax hilighting or something
14:57 <joda_bot> hm, does not make much sense otherwise
14:58 <guru3> luke-jr__: it's not plain text
14:58 <luke-jr__> guru3: um... you saved it as uncompressed?
14:58 <guru3> i'm just running qb in dosbox tho
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14:59 <guru3> good night ya'll
15:00 <n54> cya guru3 :)
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15:06 <wrtlprnft_> n54: fontforge isn't that hard, and they have a nice tutorial :)
15:06 <n54> it's still java is it?
15:07 <n54> yeah I looked a bit around but well... I wont try it right now anyway
15:07 <n54> I see it still has hinting problems etc.
15:08 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what it is written in... I just typed emerge fontforge and did something else while it compilied ;)
15:09 <wrtlprnft_> but it starts up to fast to be written in java
15:09 <n54> np :)
15:10 <n54> I wish it could simply import vector graphics, that would be nice, like from inkscape :)
15:11 <n54> but it will get better, it's obvious fromthe webpage it has continued development since last I tried it
15:12 <wrtlprnft_> :)
15:14 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
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15:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_13.png
15:23 <wrtlprnft> now you can even a cinversation if you yell all the time :D
15:26 <n54> hehe :)
15:27 <n54> man sweet work though, I want to try this myself at some point in the future
15:28 <wrtlprnft> still lots of space for refinements :D
15:29 <n54> theyae'll be done before I get up to speed :)
15:30 <wrtlprnft> nah
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15:38 <wrtlprnft> omg &- sign... that's gonna be a tough one...
15:41 <n54> :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> yay got all chars up to ASCII 90 now
17:00 <n54> cool
17:01 <wrtlprnft> which leaves me with a few easy chars like [] and all the lowercase letter
17:02 <wrtlprnft> Then some chars in upper ASCII, but fontforge can autogenerate all the accented chars by itself
17:02 <n54> ok
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17:25 <n54> don't forget the really weird ones like german double s and ae?? :)
17:25 <wrtlprnft> did you guys ever notice that the lowercase letters in the big font are one pixel lower than all other chars?
17:26 <wrtlprnft> heh. � isn't weird
17:26 <n54> yeah I fixed it privately at least but not sure if I did in the public
17:26 <wrtlprnft> and ae it makes by itself
17:26 <n54> ok
17:26 <wrtlprnft> question: should I fix it for my font?
17:27 <n54> try it, iirc there were something about it not sure if it was better to lower one or raise the other
17:27 <n54> what little I did I did years ago
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, all the other chars I already put on the right baseline
17:28 <n54> but actually that might not apply any more with ftgl so just make it equal
17:29 <n54> does ftgl have easily accesible kerning options?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
17:30 <wrtlprnft> and heck, we're talking about the messy old font :D who cares?
17:30 <n54> hehe :)
17:31 <n54> did you change stuff like lowercase m & w?
17:32 <wrtlprnft> I'm just starting with lowercase a
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17:33 <n54> ok, well if you want something similar to the default font but that has cahnged some of the ugliest stuff just search the forum for those old old alternatives I made
17:34 <n54> and it's public domain as far as  am concerned
17:34 <n54> I*
17:35 <wrtlprnft> Well, I want to make it a bit close to the old font :D
17:35 <wrtlprnft> or Lucifer_arma wants that, to be exact
17:35 <n54> my alternative is very similar to the old font
17:35 <n54> extremely similar actually
17:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll look for it
17:36 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'm finished with all chars from space to lowercase a
17:36 <n54> hi Lucifer
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> do they work?  I kept fooling with it last night and in-game, I started getting just red squares instead of the letters I drew
17:39 <wrtlprnft> same for me, but FONT_TYPE 2 and FONT_TYPE 1 work...
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> also, it might be worth dumping part of a serif font into the rest.  :)  I considered importing a generic serif font and starting from there, changing the letters to match instead of drawing them from scratch :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> those make it work?
17:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  No worries then.  :)  We just disable the one that doesn't work, or we have an FAQ to deal with it :)
17:40 <wrtlprnft> I guess it's some wrong param in fontforge...
17:40 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: nope, that's the good one..
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 1 is slow and 2 is ugly
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 3 is the best one IMHO
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I relly really really hope Carmac starts hiring before I finish my degree.  I don't want to live in the D/FW area, but if it's to work for Armadillo Aerospace, I think I can manage it.
17:49 <n54> hehe :)
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'll say the same thing about fonts that I did about cockpit.  :)  I'd like to have a new standard font that looks better than the old font and works with all the new stuff,
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> and the old font available for the "classic" look :)
17:50 <n54> Armadillo would be something that's true, however I've always been a bit dubious as to their designs, on the other hand doing practical experimentation has a lot of good to be said of it
17:50 <wrtlprnft> but for a new non-classic font we can as well use a premade font
17:50 <wrtlprnft> making a font with lots of unicode characters will be a pain
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> yes, and there are plenty of fonts, not just from fontforge but plenty of others.  Also, we now support Adobe fonts too :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I don't know that Armadillo has much of a future, but they've got cool stuff going on, anyway.  The neat thing about them is that I could be an X-cup competitor for awhile and hopefully get some wins on my record before moving on
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you're right about there being a lot of space industry around here.  :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> AA is literally a 3 hour drive from my house.  :)
17:55 <n54> hmm not sure if they're aiming for x-cup participation? it's been ages since I've been to their pages so well perhaps?
17:55 <n54> :)
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17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, AA is headed for x-cup participation.
17:59 <n54> ok
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> which is particularly neat because the X-cup is going to be held out where I went to high school, and my parents and brother and his family all live there
17:59 <n54> hehe lets just hope nothing blows up ;)
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> so if I could work for AA, not only would I get x-cup participation, but I also get to visit my parents and brother once a year :)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> (and my daughter gets an annual trip to the space museum she loves so much, in the complex where I used to volunteer at the planetarium back in high school)
18:01 <n54> x-cup 1 is in which state again?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> New Mexico.  They're building the grounds for it out at White Sands
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ~12 hours drive from here
18:02 <n54> oh ok
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> White Sands is next to Alamogordo, of course, and I graduated from Alamogordo High School in 1993 :)
18:02 <n54> :)
18:03 <n54> I only know white sands for the military base and testing range and iirc a rather cool story about a small radiation mishap involving robots :)
18:03 <n54> oh and a cool micker rourke movie of course :D
18:03 <n54> mickey*
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a neat park where you can drive into the dunes and bbq and stuff
18:04 <n54> cool
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the base is 15 minutes from Holloman AFB, which in turn is about 5 minutes out of Alamogordo
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> there's also supposed to be a spaceport being built in Fort Stockton, which is the halfway point between Austin and El Paso, so ~5 hours drive from here
18:05 <n54> if at all able I'm going to got to thesouthwest before I die :)
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> AA takes their big rocket out there to test it
18:06 <n54> yeah they're sort of popping up all over the place, california, oklahoma...
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> the southwest is a beautiful place.  If it wasn't such a backwater little hellhole, I'd still be living there.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> Kansas.  :)  My other brother has the company that has the security contract for the air port/space port in Salina, KS, where the Virgin guy is operating.
18:07 <n54> yeah but that can be good as well as bad
18:07 <n54> ok :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> you'd like it, I'm sure.  You'd love the southwest.  :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, time to start dinner, bbl
18:07 <n54> yeah I kind of think so too, not sure if that might not be a bad thing though lol :D
18:08 <n54> cya
18:09 <wrtlprnft> cya
18:13 <n54> btw yeah wrtlprnft fontmaking can be a pain
18:15 <n54> but it can also be kind of relaxing
18:15 <n54> in a sort of fiddly fashion
18:16 <wrtlprnft> :D
18:17 <n54> :)
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19:15 <cusco> bell
19:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:21 <n54> pling-pling?
19:22 <n54> I rarely see cusco talk and when he does it's a mystery! XD j/k :)
19:24 <spidey> man
19:24 <spidey> i love yahoo d00d
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: his cuzin hacked into da aol network
19:24 <spidey> self.obsession: 
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: its called pingin ur ip
19:24 <spidey> spidey: i gotta put this on bash.org
19:24 <spidey> spidey: lmao
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: hey, when we have all the letters and most of the punctuation (and all the numbers), can we get FONT_FILE Armagetronad.ttf as default setting?
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> Also, we should consider making it a Type1 font instead.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> ok
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> And finally, if you looked at the unicode bit for fontforge, there's actually a simpler way to get accents on the letters.  :)
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I got all the ascii now
19:29 <wrtlprnft> i know there is
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> but what I was thinking was making it a default when it's not necessarily finished is that it would maybe push people to finish it, if you don't get it finished, that is
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I'll commit, but until I have all the latin-1 chars I won't change the default
19:30 <wrtlprnft> well, there isn't a lot left now
19:30 <wrtlprnft> as you already noticed, there's lots of chars I can autogenerate
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> look into anchors in fontforge.  It looks like you can just draw the accents themselves and then put anchors for the letters for where to put them, so you don't have to hand-draw the rest
19:30 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_14.png
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't.  Did you install that autotrace program?  I tried it, but it made fontforge segfault on me
19:31 <wrtlprnft> I'll see what it does
19:31 <n54> nice shot
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, looks pretty complete
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, all the ASCII chars :D
19:32 <Lucifer_arma> and everybody will stop complaining about "what about the old font? *whine*" :)
19:32  * wrtlprnft hopes so
19:32 <n54> :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> committed
19:43 <wrtlprnft> but to be honest, I like the new font more :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> So we should include some fonts and make a menu item to switch between them
19:43 <n54> :)
19:43 <n54> good idea
19:43 <wrtlprnft> and make that bitstream font I have now default and then offer the "traditional" fonr
19:44 <wrtlprnft> t
19:45 <n54> sure, just make a menu item that accepts adding new fonts too :)
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, eventually fonts should be resources
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> we also need to make available system fonts :(
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> and we need to have a way to ship fonts with resources
19:45 <wrtlprnft> someone else's job
19:46 <wrtlprnft> the system font stuff
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :)
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> the resource manager should scan the system font directories, to be honest.  So code that uses fonts doesn't care where it comes from...
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that build menu is grayed out for me :(
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> so if you could just hook the fonts into the resource manager and make the resource manager know about fonts that ship with the game, that's probably enough :)
19:47 <n54> I'd kinda prefer not to scan the system fonts but that's just because I've got so much crud there -- my problem I know :S :D
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> probably need a use flag of some sort to get it.  Kubuntu's package was pretty generic and let me have everything--if I had enough ancillary programs installed, that is
19:48 <wrtlprnft> woot
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I'm in half-way agreement with you.  Someone makes a cockpit that uses a system font on Windows....  see the problem?
19:48 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:48 <n54> yeah absolutely
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> so in a way, I'd like to ignore system fonts entirely and just make fonts resources and that's that.
19:48 <wrtlprnft> just made LOTS of characters with accents
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> :)  figure out anchors, or was it something else?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> no, i had to select a buch of glyphs first
19:49 <wrtlprnft> omg
19:49 <n54> good, bad?
19:49 <Lucifer_arma> also, try generating it as a Type1 font and see if that straightens it out the way you want it for FONT_TYPE.  Since ftgl supports other font formats, we don't have to marry ttf with this font.
19:50 <wrtlprnft> for i with accents it put the accent over the dot
19:50 <wrtlprnft> like � becomes an i with a dot and an accent over the dot
19:50 <n54> :D
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's bad, I take it?  You want the accent in place of the dot?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <n54> it's possible to just do a manual fix?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> the only problem I saw with Type1 fonts is that there's no default glyph for a character that's missing, it just doesn't get displayed.  So we'd have to fill it out a bit deeper
19:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 176-128
19:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 176 - 128 = 48
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> but then you can put your 42 in for unknown characters.  :)
19:52 <wrtlprnft> what the heck IS a type1 font?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Adobe font.  It's what's mostly used in Linux, since ttf has patent problems.
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Postscript font, that's it
19:52 <wrtlprnft> I don't really care... at least that would make those flags display again ;)
19:53 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:53 <armabot>  4 
19:53 <n54> ttf has patent problems?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> probably had
19:54 <wrtlprnft> like gif
19:54 <n54> hmm
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> bytecode interpreter is patented
19:55 <wrtlprnft> is there any way to change the keybindings of fontforge
19:56 <wrtlprnft> a useful command, average pints, is bound to shift-ctrl-@, which I can't type on this keyboard
19:56 <n54> hmm that's disappointing, about ttf I mean
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 184-128
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 184 - 128 = 56
19:58 <wrtlprnft> thanks armabot :D
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know about changing keybinds in fontforge.  The guy's pretty antisocial about the program, so it's not very configurable.
20:01 <wrtlprnft> Ah, there's a dotlessi glyph I can use :D
20:02 <n54> dotlessi = without a dot? lol :)
20:02 <wrtlprnft> thanks anyways... lots of klicking
20:03 <Lucifer_arma> I will admit, the only reason I fooled with it was to show we could have the old font in ttf or whatever.  :)  But if nobody had done it, I'd still have beat on it after finals.
20:04 <wrtlprnft> how do i get to unicode characters in that font?
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> um, the answer to that is in the fontforge docs.  I read it, but don't remember what it said.  :)
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I found it out now
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I have to convert the entire font
20:21 <wrtlprnft> #g 247-128
20:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 247 - 128 = 119
20:28 <wrtlprnft> g 272-128
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 272-128
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 272 - 128 = 144
20:29 <n54> what are you calculating?
20:32 <wrtlprnft> since there's a font_extra.png which contains all the chars >= 128 but imagemagic restarted at 0 when splitting that one I need to calculate which file I need to import to trace :D
20:32 <n54> oh :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> phew finished the sharp s (�) :D
20:42 <wrtlprnft> masterpiece :D
20:42 <n54> gaim doesn't show it but I guess it's a different s than the weird german one? :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> that's exactly that one, just that it's not weird
20:43 <n54> (the one that looks like a beta)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> like a beta
20:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:43 <n54> ah ok I thought that was a double s
20:43 <n54> of course it's weird ;D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> double s is ss :D
20:44 <n54> "snabel-S" i.e. "trunk-S" :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> but yes, they have a similar meaning
20:44 <wrtlprnft> � comes after "weak" vovels and ss after harder ones
20:44 <n54> yeah long long ago a different glyph with a similar sort of meaning was used in denmark and norway too :)
20:46 <n54> anyway I think it's a cool glyph (but it's still "weird") ;P
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21:05 <n54> hi
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15(16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 15 * (16 * 100) = 24,000
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 16) * 100 = 93.75
21:09 <wrtlprnft> yay finished the ae thingy now with that last horizontal scale of 93.75% :D
21:17 <n54> :)
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21:48 <wrtlprnft> ok, I'm calling it a day now... I'll care about the missing characters another time :D
21:52 <wrtlprnft> or someone else can... I committed my stuff
21:54 <n54> cya :)
21:55 <wrtlprnft> won't get rid of me quite yet, but no more font madness :D
21:55 <n54> hehe ok :)
21:56 <n54> what's the time in canada now?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> uh, here it is 10pm
21:58 <n54> west coast?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> right in the centre
21:58 <wrtlprnft> manitoba :D
21:59 <n54> ah ok
22:10 <wrtlprnft> now you are :D cya
22:10 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:10 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:10 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:30  * Lucifer_arma just changed all the defaults for fonts and is testing, will probably commit.  :)
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47246#47246
22:48 <n54> very nice, I see some of the flaws but still
22:50 <n54> easy on the eyes :)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's a beautiful font
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I've always liked this font, I must admit, and as a vector font it looks really nice.
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> and of course, wrtlprnft is doing a nice job on it.  :)  He did the last font revision, before 0.2.8 was released, and did nothing but make it better.
22:58 <n54> :)
22:59  * Lucifer_arma hopes someone does a cvs update without reading the thread.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see the look on his face when he sees the new/old font.  :)
22:59 <n54> :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> "wtf?  No more truetype??!"
23:00 <n54> it's pure vector now or still based on truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> means, of course, we're ready to move the font into resources when we figure out how we'll do it.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> truetype is vector
23:00 <n54> yeah but you said no more truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> that's the joke.  Because if you don't read the thread, you don't necessarily know there's a truetype version of the old font
23:01 <n54> oh... sorry guess I'm getting tired :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh.
23:01  * Lucifer_arma mumbles something about whooshing sounds
23:01 <n54> heh yeah it can whoosh a lot now
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I've made it a goal of mine to get rid of the textures directory :)
23:01 <n54> I probably wouldn't even hear the sound ;)
23:01 <n54> yeah?
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  It means having moviepacks turned into resources, of course, but it's something of a personal goal.
23:02 <n54> which one of htem? :)
23:02 <n54> aha the toplevel one - yeah I agree on that
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> sounds, too.  Probably after the semester's out I'll take some time before the next semester starts to try to knock out some of the little projects I've got going on
23:03 <n54> I don't know how much easy distribution is a part of the discussion but it would be nice if moviepacks could simply be a zip file each
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> one of the things I want to do is turn moviepacks into resources.  So it's finish the openAL implementation, turn moviepacks into resources.
23:03 <n54> including fonts
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> as it stands right now, everyone wants a resource to be distributed as a zip file, or an xml file, if that's all it is.  Everyone, that is, except for luke-jr__ 
23:04 <n54> :D
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I think andi threw the last nail in the coffin of not using zip files when he pointed out the random access part of it.  :)
23:04 <n54> random access?
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> now he just needs to tell us he did that with GLTron, and everyone will say "Oh shit, we have to do it too!"
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you don't have to unzip the file to read files inside it.  You can read directly from the zip file.
23:05 <n54> yeah i know
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> one of the arguments against using zip files is that you'd have to unzip it after you download it.  But you don't have to, apparently.
23:05 <n54> well that's good then :)
23:05 <n54> very common not to
23:06 <n54> at least on windows
23:06 <n54> and every time I come across it I always find it a bleassing and neat :)
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, in posix-land we like our gzip, that's true.  And gzip only zips one file at a time, afaik.  Hence tarballs.
23:07 <n54> hmm yeah I dislike tarballs, always feels cludgy but 7zip works with linux too
23:08 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: no, the argument is not over resource distribution, but over resource content
23:09 <n54> ok well that's even better, everyone wants zip then :)
23:09 <luke-jr__> n54: tar+*zip work better than zip ever could, by design
23:09 <n54> might have been true 10 years ago imo ;)
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> see?  now we get to argue over what the argument is about.  :)
23:10 <n54> well at least it's not over zip :D
23:10 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: ZIP does have that benefit over tar+*zip, but that doesn't apply to distribution
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr__: give facts, not assertions, or shut the fuck up.  I'm really not in the mood for Luke's WOrld tonight.
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, I need to be studying anyway.  Test's tomorrow
23:13 <n54> best of luck
23:17 <n54> morning = time for bed, cya all :)
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23:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 9*7
23:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 9 * 7 = 63
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln|9|
23:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(9)
23:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(9) = 2.19722458
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^5
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^5 = 1,073,741,824
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^(5/6)
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^(5 / 6) = 32
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 32*6
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 32 * 6 = 192
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*5 + 192
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (16 * 5) + 192 = 272
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> #g 272-16
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 272 - 16 = 256
23:48 <guru3> #g ln(-9)
23:48 <armabot> guru3: ln(-9) = 2.19722458 + 3.14159265 i
23:48 <guru3> heh
23:48 <guru3> english exam in a short while :D
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> fun
23:49 -!- luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> damn, have to notice when I get 1/2(ln9 - ln1) that it's 1/2(ln9/1), which is ln(sqrt(9))
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> I thought I was missing something when I did that, heh.  :)
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> sec^2(theta) + 1 = tan(theta)?
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(e)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(e) = 1
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> :)
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(1)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0

Log from 2006-05-08:
--- Day changed Mon May 08 2006
00:03 <guru3> lol
00:03 <guru3> incidently, sqrt(9) = 3 ;)
00:04 <guru3> and 1 + tan^2(theta) = sec^2(theta)
00:05 <guru3> and f(x) = tan(theta) f'(x) = sec^2(theta)
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00:36 <CraYSuPeRcOm> whats up with fortress doesnt anyone play anymore?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> a lot of them are pllaying the american fortress server
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> um, has our match with mbc been scheduled?  or do we forfeit?
00:41 <CraYSuPeRcOm> dont know , been out of the loop for awhile
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> me too.  basically, if we find ourselves on friday without it scheduled, and without the other teams requiring a forfeit, I'm going to try to schedule and get it played
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, I'm out anyway.  Finals week.
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> but I could use a little fortress-driven study break right now :)
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00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: Crazy Tronner's has a better server for fortress ;)
00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: eg, with maps
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> okay back sry
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> wife cant dod a damn thing by herself
00:52 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i do love the crazy tronners fortress luke but i think sometimes i still prefer the CLASSIC
00:53 <CraYSuPeRcOm> going to play some kind of game , cya
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01:27 <_Lucifer_arma> man, I love thunderstorms as much as the next guy, but three nights in a row?
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> damn wife keeps interupting me, that sucks i was justa about to start playing, 
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i now have to sleep good night
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02:28 <z-man> #morning
02:28 <z-man> Eh, Lucifer is here, but not his bot?
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, gotta go turn on the other computer
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> power fluctuated with the last thunderstorm
03:30 <z-man> hope nothing broke
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> me too :)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> but man am I sick of thunderstorms.  This one didn't look as threatening as the last two, but sooner or later that tree in my yard is going to give, and 50 pounds of wood will fall on my truck
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03:33 <z-man> If I had Texas Thunderstorms here, I'd be pissed at them, too. Luckily, ours are quite tame.
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  When I was in Seattle for those 4 years, we had 1 thunderstorm.  Lots of rain, only one thunderstorm.
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> all the people around me complained that they didn't get any sleep because of the "terrible thunderstorm".  I managed to show some rare tact and didn't tell them it was weak.  :)
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> this one had the 60mph gusts, but none of the fury of the one last night.  That one was damn scary, with an hour of wild wind before the rain finally fell.
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> The one before that knocked out power for 15,000 people down in Austin, which is the city my suburb belongs to.
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> if we get another thunderstorm tomorrow night, I'm declaring natural disaster.  :)
03:37 <z-man> To whom?
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> probably just my wife.  and my calc teacher, although he won't consider it a reason for missing the test...
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> he did offer an automatic test extension when Rita was looking at us last semester, but didn't promise much more than a couple of days.  :)
03:40 <z-man> Our flat probably is going to get flooded by the Rhine sooner or later. Hopefully later, after we moved out :) The previous record flood height has to be beaten by something like a meter to get to us.
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> is it just your relative height to the river?  Or does the topography favor it?
03:43 <z-man> It's the relative height. We're on relatively high ground, but close to the river.
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> so the water would have to go through you before it found its way out of the valley?
03:43 <z-man> Other areas of the city are lower than us, but protected by natural dams (partly)
03:43 <z-man> yes
03:44 <z-man> and then it floods the part of town where all the rich guys live, har.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  that kinda sucks.  :)  Still, there's the previous record, but the scientists are promising more extreme weather, which always seems to translate to flooding
03:44 <z-man> right
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> the rhine starts in snow-capped mountains, doesn't it?
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> then picks up a few tributaries along the way?  Or am I confused?  Heh.
03:45 <z-man> yes, it gets fed from the Alps
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> so a really nasty blizzard, or just a lot of snow, and more melt than usual might do it.  Or a glacier in the wrong place melting more than usual...
03:46 <z-man> Exactly. One snowy winter and a sudden warmup in spring usually give us the most trouble
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> we're probably a few years away from that, at least.  :)
03:47  * z-man hopes so
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no such danger around here, anyway.  None of the rivers around here are fed by mountains, except maybe the rio grande.  I think...
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no, the flooding danger here is thunderstorms.  The wind, on the other hand...
03:48 <z-man> they can do nasty things
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> damn, my secret route home that skips the nasty intersection goes past a stream that tends to flood.  It'll be flooded tomorrow and I won't be able to use it.
03:49  * Lucifer_arma remembers the news reports of 4 tornadoes ripping through downtown Ft Worth a few years back
03:52 <z-man> We've had one (1) tornado last month, coming suddenly, killing two people by surprise, and leaving again. In Hamburg, so not really here.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> wa.  That's crazy.
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, turns out that tornadoes aren't an American mid-west phenomena.  :)  Although the american mid-west gets more by a respectable margin, they hit worldwide.  :(
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> according to wikipedia, anyway, which knows everything.
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> that truetype version of the old font looks really nice.  :)
03:56 <z-man> Yes, I tested it that morning.  Think we should pack up 0.3.0 with it soon?
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> not sure.  :)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ask me again after finals.  There's at least one showstopper bug in the sound engine.  I was hoping to get the openAL rewrite of the sound engine into 0.3, but that shouldn't be a showstopper for it
04:11 <z-man> will do that.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> but wrtlprnft was talking about 0.3 a little while ago, so there probably won't be any serious resistance.  :)  He's anxious to get all his work into a release.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> I, for one, would like to see what cockpits people dream up.  ;)
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's a minor thing that I'd like to see fixed before the cockpit gets its first release.  The coordinate system is weird.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> in 4:3 aspect ratio, no problems, right?  But when you take a cockpit built for a 4:3 AR and put it on, say, my screen, the top gauges go off-screen because the visible height no longer goes from -1 to 1
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft was fairly stumped by it, and I've no clue really what to do about it.  I just noticed the console doesn't suffer this problem.  :)
04:14 <z-man> Yes, it's a challenge to both get placement and aspect ratios right
04:15 <z-man> The console, I think, gets squished. /me goes checking
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not so worried about the gauges warping.  It'd be nice if they didn't, but I'm concerned about them disappearing entirely.  If just the placement were worked out, even if gauge size wasn't affected, that would be nice.  :)
04:16 <z-man> I'd introduce coordinates relative to the screen edges.
04:17 <z-man> like, (+x,+y) is relative to the lower left edge
04:17 <z-man> (-x,-y) relative to the upper right edge
04:17 <z-man> but then you can't place something into the center, grr
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that actually makes sense and finishes off the line of thinking I was on.  Except I'd make the position tag just have a relative attribute or something like that
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> relative="center" ?  :)
04:18 <z-man> yes, an extra attribute for the coordinate system would solve everything.
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> since, realistically, that's how a cockpit is actually built.  "This stuff goes on the bottom, this stuff on top, this on the side"
04:18 <z-man> Right
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  units are always independent/dependent, right?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm backwards.
04:26 <z-man> I don't know. Units are units to me :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> :)  x/f(x) or f(x)/x
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> the question is, x is meters, f(x) is newtons, what's, mmmm, definite integral notation for irc?
04:28 <z-man> \int_0^1
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> definite integral f(x)dx units are ____?
04:28 <z-man> LaTeX code :)
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:28  * Lucifer_arma turns on latex plugin
04:28 <z-man> the units of dx are the same as that of x
04:29 <z-man> so if f(x) is newton, x is meters, then f(x)dx is newton*meters = joule
04:29 <z-man> and the integration doesn't change that
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> meters
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> er, I think they want meters/newtons
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.
04:30  * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead
04:30  * Lucifer_arma was the astute student that noticed you multiplied to get the integral's units in the first place, in class.
05:11 <Luke-Jr> z-man: percentage units solve it, mostly... plus math
05:12 <Luke-Jr> thus, width: 100% - 5em ;)
05:12 <Luke-Jr> but supporting right=0 can work as well
05:12 <Luke-Jr> s/width/left
05:16 <Luke-Jr> but that makes centreing hard, again... so maybe a form of Lucifer_arma's origination location (origin_x=left/centre/right, origin_y=top/middle/bottom) is best
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3^6
05:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3^6 = 729
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g tan(pi/4)
05:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: tan(pi / 4) = 1
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  google's smart
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> alright, I'm as ready for this test as I'm going to be.
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> time for bed, I think.
06:14 <z-man> good luck
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07:20  * wrtlprnft disagrees: relative units to the top and bottom don't solve anything
07:20 <wrtlprnft> then the gauges will be separate on some screens and overlap on others...
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08:39 <cusco> lala
08:39 <cusco> walls from the future?
08:39 <cusco> what are those'
08:42 <n54> they're walls but they're not here right now but will soon be so watch out! :D ;P
08:46  * joda_bot moves a wall in front of n54
08:46  * n54 jumps over it :)
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10:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: try origin_x/y + percentage units
10:25 <guru3> i smell like solder now :/
12:01 <n54> you'e been soldering guru3?
12:02 <guru3> yes
12:02 <n54> what are you making?
12:03 <guru3> made a solar panel array
12:03 <n54> wow
12:03 <guru3> had the panels lying around anyway
12:04 <n54> yeah but that's cool
12:04 <guru3> yeah i gues
12:04 <guru3> s
12:04 <guru3> it's not very strong
12:04 <guru3> just may charge our old cell phone
12:05 <n54> :)
12:05 <guru3> but only in bright light
12:06 <n54> yup but I kind of assume stuff like that
12:06 <guru3> heh well
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14:23 <n54> Lucifer_arma: not sure if you've heard of these guys, I just happened to see their page today and I've got no idea how solid they are, anyway http://www.masten-space.com/careers.html
14:35 <n54> Lucifer_arma: this might also be of interest (just in case you haven't seen it already): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12638904/
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16:12 <SD|bbmonday> #notes
16:12 <armabot> SD|bbmonday: I currently have notes waiting for $1, $junkee, $randomnick, chanserv, everyone, junk, Lucifer_arma,, MemoServ, NickServ, philippeq, phillipeq, and [^w].
16:12 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
16:30 <Self_Destructo> z-man: I have no CVS access?
16:32 <z-man-home> I haven't changed anything
16:32 <z-man-home> The server is down atm
16:33 <z-man-home> I can't get on, either.
16:33 <z-man-home> The message looks like an authentication failure, that's right.
16:35 <wrtlprnft> it asks me for my password
16:35 <z-man-home> I get:ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
16:36 <Self_Destructo> I get an authentication failure, like I'm not allowed
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> can we say "got on my last nerve"?  :)
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47303#47303
16:38 <z-man-home> Makes me afraid to ask how the calc test went...
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, the last time I walked out of test thinking I kicked its ass, I got an 84.  nevertheless, I kicked its ass.  :)  I'm in a very good mood, actually, contrary to what might appear from that post.
16:41 <z-man-home> Good to hear.
16:42 <z-man-home> On topic, yes, 2020 can be a teeeny bit annoying with his repetitions. I just ignore him then, but I wasn't on the Spoon.
16:42 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: lol
16:43 <n54> hi Lucifer, did you see what I wrote you after you logged in some hours ago?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> To his defense, I was surprised how good it went... We should have just declared the seed rounds the final results and planned another competition in half a year
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: saw it, haven't followed it up.  Just got home from the test, the dust is stil settling.  :)
16:49 <n54> np just wondered if you missed it :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm not going to complain about 2020 here if he's not here to fight back, but I'll admit it's really tempting.  :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and express agreement with y'all, np about that.
16:50 <n54> tournaments always cause stuff like that imo, at least every has so far :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/17*100
16:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 17) * 100 = 88.2352941
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> the hardest part about a tournament is gettng people to show up.  :)  And whadya know?  that's the problem the spoon has had.  Other than that, look at raw numbers, realy.
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> The SPOON is the most successful tournament I've seen.  Maybe there were more successful tournaments before I got here.
17:02 <Self_Destructo> z-man-home: why put makedist.bat in winlibs? So you don't have to make it for each one?
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> but look, people did self-organize, and then show up and play.  The forfeit rate is less than I expected, to be honest.
17:03 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: yeah... for a mostly non-clan tournamnet it was very sucessful
17:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: i think because you need it for both vc and codeblacks
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> if I were going to organize the ladle (which I won't, I'm staying out, now), I'd either require 2020 to take a lead position and pass judgements, lay down the law, etc, or volunteer to do it, and go for a shorter competition.
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe seed based on the American Fortress ladder or something like that.
17:05 <n54> ok well I didn't parttake but it seems very similar to the tournament that was ages ago
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and leave the rest the same, because the first round went very well with very few forfeits, and nobody was suprised to see Formerly Elite pull out.
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and they were most of the forfeits.
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll dump all that on the forums in a bit, still settling in, washing dishes, etc.
17:06 <n54> :)
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: my 2-year old likes your avatar.  He burst into laughter when he saw it.  :)
17:21 <z-man-home> Self_Destructo: yes, that's basically the reason. The file is the same for both visualc and code::blocks, but i only care for it in the visualc folder. It'll be better for everyone if it gets moved to winlibs
17:21 <Self_Destructo> ok
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17:22 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: Actually, I wouldn't have thought there would be enough players willing to participate in the little experiment of the Spoon
17:22 <z-man-home> And stopping after the seed round would have been a good idea, but we only know that now :)
17:23 <z-man-home> The thing that struck me as a bit odd was a round robin like seed round followed by a KO tournamnent with everyone participating. Didn't get the point of that.
17:24  * z-man-home yawns and rolls into bed
17:24 <Self_Destructo> ok, cya z-man
17:25 <wrtlprnft> night
17:25 <n54> cya z-man
17:38 <wrtlprnft> 2 chars to go!
17:41 <n54> :)
17:42 <wrtlprnft> 1
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17:59 <wrtlprnft> Finished now, I would commit if SF CVS wasn't down...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: the round robin like seed followed by the KO tournament is how big league sports in america is organized.  :)  'night.
18:08 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
18:08 <Gnorty> hey
18:09 <n54> hi
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully this will be the first instance where a clan gets renamed from the outside.  :)
18:10 <Gnorty> did I miss some gossip? tellme the clan in question is fe
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I noticed that this font is a little larger than the old font when displayed.  So I guess there's some size issue in there.
18:10 <Gnorty> cuz they sooooooooooooooooooooooooo need renaming
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: yeah, the clan is fe.  And I've started calling them (from someone else's suggestion, I forgot who) Formerly Elite :)
18:10 <Gnorty> lol
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> maybe we can get everyone else doing the same?  Then they've been renamed.
18:10 <Gnorty> but 
18:11 <Gnorty> formerly implies that at sometime there was some eliteness
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> there is a concession that they were once elite, I know.  I'm willing to concede that for the sake of the renaming.  :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: another way to solve the coordinate problem that z-man dreamed up is this:
18:11 <Gnorty> :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> in the position tag, also specify an edge for the origin.
18:12 <Gnorty> luci - are you free for a while? you are prolly my ideal helper
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> not necessarily, but what's up?
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm gonna have to start dinner in a few minutes
18:12 <Gnorty> ^ I think you prolly not free, no worries
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: so, you say like <Position origin="top" x="0.0" y="0.2" /> or something like that
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: You know the left and right coordinates, and you can compute the height, so you don't have to worry about being more specific than that
18:13 <Gnorty> whats up is I have a server geared towards something I think you would approve of, and I am having config problems. likely someone else will pop up who can help and is not busy
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: for origin="center" you'd have to compute the center, obviously
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: tell me more?  When I cook dinner, I usually take breaks to come here and check stuff, so my responses might be slow, but I can promise they'll come, anyway
18:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that still doesn't solve the problem with gauges overlapping...
18:21 <wrtlprnft> and what if I want a gauge in the centre that's exactly as high as the screen?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> and yes, the font is a bit bigger... the old font filled only a fraction of the height of the image
18:22 <wrtlprnft> * of the tile
18:23 <wrtlprnft> But if I make out font smaller in fontforge we'll end up with some quirky font that's to small when rendered normally
18:23 <wrtlprnft> * our font
18:24 <Gnorty> wrtl - I havent seen the whole conversation, but for my game stlye, a rubber guage that filled the whole screen would help a *lot* ;)
18:24 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll end up making a FONT_SIZE_FACTOR setting
18:24 <wrtlprnft> easy with the current cockpit system ;)
18:24 <Gnorty> :)
18:25 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=250
18:25 <wrtlprnft> like that?
18:25 <Gnorty> hopefully easier than working out the apparently easy fortress conquest settings
18:25 <wrtlprnft> you could make it horizontal as well
18:26 <Gnorty> I have looked at a lot of those screenshots and tbh I'm loving your work :)
18:27 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:27 <Gnorty> likely the HUD work will reach release sooner than my skill level reaches CVS compilation
18:27 <wrtlprnft> you could make an alphatransparent gauge that *really* fills the entire screen :D
18:28 <wrtlprnft> like, horizontal and vertical
18:28 <Gnorty> ^ this is my intention
18:28 <wrtlprnft> just ask Self_Destructo how to do it, he's an expert now :D
18:28 <Gnorty> Im guessing that opther guages could easily be placed on top - boring stuff like speed,etc in a size/position similar to current
18:29 <wrtlprnft> sure, once we figured out the coordinate system :D
18:31 <Gnorty> wrtl ^ I would dearly love to reboot my skills so that I could actually contribute to arma, there are many things that I would dearly like to play with, but unfortunately ( prolly not appropriate) I can't really allow the time these days
18:31 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:31 <Gnorty> :)
18:31 <wrtlprnft> maybe I can get one of Self_Destructo, joda_bot and z-man to make an alpha release soon :D
18:32 <Gnorty> I am happier now than I used to be,m but I do yearn for days when I could mess with computer projects and not worry about kids/playschool and such
18:32 <wrtlprnft> :) :(
18:33 <wrtlprnft> :):
18:33 <Gnorty> kinda swapping perpetual contentment for habitual brainbashing and occaisional euphoria
18:34 <n54> ?
18:34 <Gnorty> n54 - I used to spend lots of time hacking stuff, now spend more family time.
18:35 <n54> which one was perpetual? :)
18:35 <Gnorty> the family time is perpetual now
18:35 <Gnorty> the hacking was habitual
18:35 <Gnorty> it is a hard habit to break tho
18:35 <n54> ok then it sounds good to me, be happy :)
18:35 <Gnorty> ^ I am :)
18:36 <n54> :)
18:36 <Gnorty> ^^ reading back it was kinda confusing :)
18:37 <n54> no worries :)
18:37 <Gnorty> it got deleted and edited a few times, and didnt really come out as I thought it
18:38 <n54> happens to me too
18:38 <Gnorty> nah, you just think it sounds cool and want to be like me :)
18:39 <n54> lol
18:39 <n54> I'm past being cool I'm 32 :)
18:39 <Gnorty> glad you have a sense of humour - I saw that on screen and thoguht "that could make me look like a complete wanker"
18:40 <n54> hehe
18:40 <Gnorty> Im 37, you still have approx 3 years of cool left
18:40 <n54> nope, sorry, you're wrong :)
18:40 <Gnorty> although you are at a disadvantage, I am still cool enough to say kewl
18:41 <n54> yeah I'm sure your kids think you are cool for saying kewl ;P
18:41 <Gnorty> althoguh maybe saying "kewl" is actually anti-cool. that is something that seems to be hapening more often lately ;)
18:41 <Gnorty> ^^ lol
18:41 <n54> :)
18:42 <Gnorty> I dont normally IRC with the kids, so its not an issue
18:43 <Gnorty> they are OK when I say it, they think I say "cool", but in seceret, I am really saing "kewl"
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I wasn't aware there was a problem with gauges overlapping.  :)  I thought the problem was gauges near the top on a 4:3 aspect ratio disappearing on widescreen, which is what I have
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, you could honor top and bottom in the y attribute, and left and right in the x attribute, and the problem is solved :)
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="top" y="bottom" />  <Size width="max" height="max" />  <--- something like that
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> er
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="left" y="bottom" />  <Size width="max" height="max" />  <--- something like that
18:57 <Gnorty> OK, so I have this idea for a server, to build skills valuable, but IMO neglected in fortresss, but need help
18:57 <Gnorty> the gameplay currently sucks, but I cant work on gameplay until the config is right
18:58 <Gnorty> anyone willing too look and maybe help?
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ VI do really now the diffenrence between to and too, but my keyboard lieks to maintain an elemant of illiteracy
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ and also it is respnsible for the random letters
19:00 <Gnorty> ^ and for missing letters]
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok, explain exactly what you've done to accomplish your goal, precisely what your goal is, and what's not working :)
19:00  * Lucifer_arma hands Gnorty the "how to ask for support" handbook
19:01  * Gnorty doesn't know quite what to say to that
19:02 <Gnorty> luci - better I styart the server and demonstarte prolly, but that might not be compatible with cooking
19:02  * Gnorty starts server
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, first what skills are you trying to build?
19:04  * Gnorty invites anyone willing to help to "cats and mice" but advises anyone looking for a good game to stay away, cuz it currently sucks
19:04 <Gnorty> luci - sweeper skills
19:05 <Gnorty> who sweeps well? not many
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> so how have you decided to approach buiding those skills?  Did you make a map, or did you try just using regular config?  You're right, checking the server isn't compatible with cooking :)
19:14 <n54> cya all :)
19:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> also, you've already checked that it's showing on the master server and people cn connect to it, right?  So we're definitely looking at the guts of the problem, not peripheral frequent problems?
19:14 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:18 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:21 <Gnorty> luci - devised a gameplay basis, wrote a map, but have trouble making the technical aspects work. gameplay is also not as planned, but I need the tech aspects right before I can work on gameplay by adjusting map. I hope you can help - I think you will appreciate what I am trying to do, but you need to really play to see first. brb, need a cig
19:22 <cusco> Gnorty: wake up
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> so is the map loading?  and it appears like you expect it to, clients can download it?
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, don't even try to sit here and wait for me.  :)  If you've got better things to do, just do what I'm doing.  Come back every now and then and see if its your turn to talk.  ;)
19:26 <Gnorty> the gameis running, showing on master server and random players are joining, having a sucky time cua it is borked and maybe wont come back!
19:27 <Gnorty> ^ is what I am doing :) I am not sat waiting
19:27 <Gnorty> but you really need to play to grasp the concept
19:28 <cusco> Gnorty: you're killing me on your server
19:28 <cusco> when you go trhu the multizone
19:28 <Gnorty> gusdoc :) is not me, I am idle
19:28 <cusco> yes I know!!!
19:28 <Gnorty> tNow I come and kill you :)
19:29 <cusco> here
19:29 <Gnorty> k
19:29 <Gnorty> concept is this
19:29 <cusco> getting the winzone..
19:30 <cusco> in this case we are the mice
19:30 <Gnorty> mice live in skirtings (dont know if that translates to merkin, but essentially behind the walls)
19:30 <cusco> oops now it changed
19:30 <cusco> we are the cat again
19:30 <Gnorty> there is cheese in another room, (winzone) not reachable by skirtings
19:30 <Gnorty> mice need to reach the cheese
19:31 <Gnorty> cats job is to stop them
19:31 <cusco> so they must first clear teh zones?
19:31 <cusco> how can they get trough the multi zone?
19:31 <Gnorty> cats cannot gop behind the walls (holes too small  (this is why you die randomly as a cat)
19:31 <cusco> aw
19:31 <Gnorty> the zones are there purely to stop cats going behind the walls
19:32 <Gnorty> ( i wish there was a better way, but alas there is not
19:32 <cusco> so cats cannot touch walls?
19:32 <Gnorty> tghat is the concept
19:32 <Gnorty> but it is faulty
19:32 <cusco> ok let the faulty bit for afterwards
19:32 <cusco> cats cannot zone
19:33 <Gnorty> first, a cat can suicide by collapsing a zone, and then other cats can go through (I guess this is maybe OK, if a cat killed himself maybe by bashing a cat szed hole)
19:33 <Gnorty> no cats should not be able to zone
19:34 <Gnorty> I wish for a one team only killzone, but unfortunately a forress is my best option atm
19:34 <cusco> cat szed zone?
19:34 <cusco> ok so I understand
19:35 <cusco> so the multizone
19:35 <cusco> is suposed to be a killzone
19:35 <cusco> for mice and cats
19:35 <cusco> ?!
19:35 <Gnorty> mice also cannot zone, in that the forts themselves mean nothing to a mouse, only the winzone, which is in theory unavailable toi cats
19:35 <Gnorty> cusco- - all the non green zones are meant to be fatal for cats
19:35 <Gnorty>  but inert for micer
19:36 <cusco> ok I understand
19:36 <Gnorty> :)
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so, cats are one team, or individuals with their own fortresses?
19:36 <cusco> how about the multizone
19:36 <Gnorty> the winzone is the mouse goal
19:36 <cusco> why is it multi?
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> is it a sumo in the zone deal, or stand in front of the zone and sweep?
19:36 <Gnorty> there is no cat goal but to kill mice
19:36 <cusco> cats are one team
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> cats own a fortress?
19:36 <Gnorty> the whole idea is for cats to learn to sweep
19:36 <cusco> no
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so the zone is just a winzone, then?
19:37 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: in my view you have either the problem with gauges going off the screen or gauges being squished or gauges being overlapping...
19:37 <Gnorty> mice are for random players to try to get through
19:37 <cusco> there is a main hall with a hole on each wall
19:37 <cusco> and the hole in front has a winzone inside
19:37 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-065-190-155-136.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
19:37 <wrtlprnft> and the top and bottom approach doesn't fit very well since I want to have a WYSIWYG editor for cockpit files one day
19:37 <Gnorty> the big zone is a hack to stop one cat suicideing to leave the way clear for other cats to winzone
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I consider the last two problems less important than the first.  gauges being squished can be read.  Gauges overlapping can be corrected with careful design.
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> better check out Qt's fancy widget editor before you write off wysiwyg :)
19:38 <cusco> ahh Gnorty I get u
19:38 <Gnorty> :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure you'll be able to accomplish what you want like this.
19:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I'd like to have the editor inside arma
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> for a collapsing zone to kill someone, it has to be owned by them, and that means fortress zone.
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> or you have to hack the server.  :)
19:38 <Gnorty> unfortunately even despite the obvious nastyness of using misconfigure fortresses for one way killzones, there are bugs that I dont understand
19:39 <Gnorty> this is what I need help with
19:39 <cusco> like what?
19:39 <cusco> what bugs?
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  "bugs that I don't understand" means a developer doesn't understand the bug.  :)  Minor nitpick, but if you don't understand it, how can you call it a bug?  ;)
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> hang on, everybody stop for a sec
19:39 <Gnorty> like cats canb bypass the zones at will and just winzone, which totally kills gameplay
19:40 <cusco> :| that happens?
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_RATE .3
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_DEFEND_RATE .2
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_DECAY_RATE .1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE 4 # no points for conquering a zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_WIN 0   # the first conqueror does not win
19:40 <Gnorty> yes, i can easily as a cat go right through, ccollapse the zone and not die
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_SURVIVE_WIN 1     # the team with the last active zone wins instead
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_MIN 1   # nothing bad happens to the owners of a
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_RATIO .5 # conquered zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_MAX_PER_TEAM 1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> those are either all of the fortress settings, or the most useful imo
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I'm thinking you'll have to let cats have access to the zone, or else you can't let mice have access to it
19:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe put some walls around the zone to make it harder for anybody to get in, and have the cats start outside the zone.
19:41 <wrtlprnft> just enter FORTRESS at the console :D
19:41 <Gnorty> luci _)i have toatlly bastardised the settings to suit my (unintended needs)_ and Im not sure if the randomness of their workings is my settings, the server software or just too much to ask
19:41 <cusco> Lucifer_arma: have a go at his server and see what he has
19:42 <Lucifer_arma> I'll check it out when I get a chance, I have to go heat up some tortillas and get dinner on the table
19:42 <Gnorty> all forts are owned by cats
19:42 <Gnorty> but fort def is set to -100
19:42 <Gnorty> so a cat goes in, fort collapses instantly
19:42 <Gnorty> then set so nearest cat dies
19:42 <wrtlprnft> that's not fort def
19:42 <Gnorty> but sometimes not
19:42 <wrtlprnft> thats fort conquest
19:42 <Gnorty> no
19:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
19:43 <Gnorty> fort conq is where non-owner is present, no?
19:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:43 <wrtlprnft> sorry
19:43 <Gnorty> :)
19:43  * wrtlprnft feels that he behaves like Luke-Jr :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> brr
19:43 <Gnorty> s'ok, I was also confsed, and I have nothing to do with devel
19:44 <Gnorty> wrtl - erm, not in any way like luke ;)
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I know what the settings do, bubt i didn't quite get what you wanted ;)
19:44 <Gnorty> what I thought
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I thought you wanted a settings like CT fortress chico
19:44 <Gnorty> not at all like fortress, quuitew opposite
19:45 <cusco> lol
19:45 <cusco> very different indeed
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, chico isn't like fortress at all :D
19:45 <Gnorty> all I want is a zone that kills one side, butr is immune to others
19:45 <cusco> wrtlprnft: have a try at his cat & mice server
19:45 <cusco> its on the main hub
19:45 <Gnorty> I wouls even really prefer different maps for different teams, that would be leet
19:46 <wrtlprnft> can you re-explain what you want?
19:46 <Gnorty> ^ is a good game, but atm it is way out of balance, mice totally should own
19:46 <Gnorty> I just want a zone for killing one team only
19:46 <wrtlprnft> so you want zones that only kill one team, right?
19:46 <Gnorty> yes
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that's easy i think
19:47 <cusco> sometimes it kills the whole team instead of killing only the trespasser :|
19:47 <Gnorty> I have that i think, but sometimes they dont die. I think the settings dont really expect -ve values
19:47 <wrtlprnft> but you either have to place all the zones closer to the cats thatn to the mice or do a few map file "hacks "
19:47 <wrtlprnft> is there a server running right now?
19:47 <Gnorty> ^^ the whole team thing wa to discourage chancers. I can fix that easily
19:48 <Gnorty> wwttl yes - cats and mice
19:48 <wrtlprnft> incoming me
19:48  * Gnorty goes to gret wrtl
19:48 <cusco> w8ing
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, nice post licufer
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lucifer*
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh, which post?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4873316&nav=menu73_2
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a fire near here a couple nights ago, turns out the family's house burned to the ground.  Nothing in the news about it, though.
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> what I want to know is why the sky is full of smoke right now, and why it seems there's very light ash falling from it
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> somebody with realplayer tell me what this is about:  http://www.weather.com/multimedia/player.html?clip=3390&collection=videocoll9&from=wxcenter_video
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
20:01 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: just a guy on his front porch filming the rain... and lighting hit about 100feet from his house and torched a tree.
20:01 <Self_Destructo> he about lost the camera
20:01 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:01 <Self_Destructo> i would have too
20:03 <Self_Destructo> http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:03 <Self_Destructo> a picture of a CMS Ace built...
20:03 <Self_Destructo> that has phpBB hardcoded into it
20:04 <Self_Destructo> very nice and seamless
20:05 <Gnorty> File Upload Manager v1.3  (C) thepeak
20:05 <Gnorty>  ERROR: your file type is not allowed (JPG), or you didn't specify a file to upload.
20:05 <Gnorty> >>back
20:06 <Self_Destructo> er
20:06 <Gnorty> jpg is specifed as OK (nice page btw, it works for png, and looks very sweet)
20:07 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: with those settings it actually should work just fine...
20:07 <Gnorty> what I thought, but it doesnt!
20:07 <Self_Destructo> heh, it does the same for me when it comes to mp3's
20:07 <Self_Destructo> I don't get it somtimes...
20:08 <Self_Destructo> one time it will upload, and another time it won't, and sometimes it will never upload it
20:08 <Gnorty> pah, looks sweet, but doesnt really work. have you ever thought of working for microsoft?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what looks sweet?
20:08 <Gnorty> j/k
20:08 <Gnorty> the uploader
20:09 <Gnorty> looks sweet
20:09 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-054-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["on the run"]
20:09 <Self_Destructo> ahh, it's just script i found
20:09 <Gnorty> ah, ok. thought you made it
20:09 <Self_Destructo> on hotscripts.com... something quick :0
20:09 <Self_Destructo> nope... i might build one one of these days
20:09 <Gnorty> can yu send me the script?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> maybe
20:10 <wrtlprnft> might look good, but I still didn't find out how to fetch the uploaded files without popups enabled and without looking at the source code
20:10 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: click on the <dl>
20:10 <Self_Destructo> grr
20:10 <Gnorty> wrtl - if it is free script, i reckon the pop-ups come wh#ith
20:11 <Gnorty> man, I must learn the differnece between <backspace> and #
20:11 <Gnorty> I always had trouble with that
20:12 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: no idea what's wrong, the code looks just fine to me...
20:12 <Gnorty> the upload script code?
20:12 <wrtlprnft> no, the code in arma responsible for killing zone owners
20:13 <Gnorty> ah, I thought so too. so does that count as a bug in the software as I suspect?
20:13 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/fileupload.zip
20:14 <Gnorty> or am I just trying to get something out that isnt really in? should I ask for it as a feature, or maybe try to hack it myslef?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> it should work, but doesn't for some reason
20:15 <Gnorty> wallfrog.co.uk/salepics < gnorty's attempt at file uploader (works, but uglier)
20:15 <Gnorty> wrtl, so bug?
20:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: guess so... better ask someone who actually knows that code
20:15 <Gnorty> t^heh
20:16 <Gnorty> who would tghat be? should I jhust post on the forum?
20:16 <Gnorty> but the forum is just so,  erm, un-instant
20:16 <wrtlprnft> forums I'd say
20:16 <Gnorty> :(]
20:16 <wrtlprnft> leave the test server up so people can join and test
20:17 <Gnorty> I hate ping IRO hours
20:17 <Gnorty> you think I should post a zip of the map and the configs?
20:18 <wrtlprnft> just post a link to that webserver dir
20:18 <Self_Destructo> ahha..
20:18 <Self_Destructo> got it working right
20:18 <Gnorty> I cannot really leave it up, it is arm my main box, and lives in my living room
20:18 <Gnorty> refer to earlier posts about family life VS puters ;)
20:19 <Gnorty> wrtl link is also my main PC
20:19 <Gnorty> and dont really want unwanted attention on my hosted server]
20:19 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:19 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p50908F83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:20 <Gnorty> tI think a zip is maybe better
20:20 <Self_Destructo> Gnorty: http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:20 <wrtlprnft> then post a zip, but expect less people to help you
20:20 <Self_Destructo> the uplaoder there is more updated
20:20 <Gnorty> yes, I know :(
20:20 <Gnorty> maybe I post a zip, and say if anyone sees me playing then I can spark up the server - I should be playing a bit the next few days
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute.  any reason you don't want to use the central resource repository?
20:21  * Lucifer_arma kicks himself for asking.
20:22 <Gnorty> luci - me? my map is there al;rady. config kinda needs to be local, although if there is a central server host I dont kinow about, I am all ears
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> no, config is local
20:22 <Gnorty> :)
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> but if you get it to work, I'd be happy to put it on my server in the rotator :)
20:23 <Gnorty> but the secret server host?
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> secret server host?
20:23 <Gnorty> thave you played?
20:23  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he missed something, a likely possibility.
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm eating right now
20:24 <Gnorty> ok, but Id like to host it somewhere when it is working, so if/when I will give you a call
20:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, should I add "support" for those flags in our default font?
20:25 <Gnorty> luci - look back and re-read the post before you kicked yourself
20:25 <wrtlprnft> that would mean making faces for the control characters in lower upper ASCII
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I missed something, heh
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on the server right now
20:26 <Gnorty> s/before/after
20:26 <Gnorty> :)
21:00 <Gnorty> thanks for the input luci
21:00 <Gnorty> tand wrtl
21:01 <Gnorty> ^ random t
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> the news in this town sucks.  Ash is falling from the sky and nobody's bothered to say anything about it.
21:13 <Gnorty> luci?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you want to try the newest font, I uploaded it: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Armagetronad.ttf
21:14 <Gnorty> ash from the sky??
21:14 <wrtlprnft> and http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armagetronad.sfd
21:14  * wrtlprnft hopes that's overexaggerated
21:14 <wrtlprnft> or however you spell that
21:15  * Gnorty too, but i need to sleep so my concern is suspended herewith. laterz
21:15 <wrtlprnft> night
21:15 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> stupid SF CVS...
21:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i aggree
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> not a lot of ash, but there was definitely ash from the sky
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> last time ash fell from teh sky like that, it turned out there was a huge chemical fire in a Mexican factory on the Rio Grande
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> time before that, that I remember, it was a volcanic eruption in Mexico.
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> Ash from both of those events dumped all over texas for several days.
21:30 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:30 <wrtlprnft> we once had sahara sand in the sky above munich...
21:30 <wrtlprnft> that looked extremely cool. some kind of storm blew it over to us
21:31 <wrtlprnft> luckily most of it just blew by and didn't fall down
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but actually... a day on the "beach" would have been fun, too :D
21:43 <Self_Destructo> cya'll tommorrow
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06:35 <Gnorty> hey n55
06:35 <Gnorty> ^54
06:36 <n54> hi :)
06:37 <n54> doing ok?
06:43 <Gnorty> yea, just trying to sort out some server problems
06:43 <Gnorty> head/brick wall time tho
06:44 <Gnorty> think i am probably trying to squeeze too much out of a fortress zone
06:44 <n54> :)
06:44 <n54> yeah you might be beyond the edge of development
06:49 <Gnorty> rdges suck :(
06:49 <Gnorty> ^ edges
06:51 <n54> might be easier to do what you want to don when they've figured more stuff out
06:54 <Gnorty> but I want it NOW!!!
06:54 <Gnorty> maybe I will see if I can break the code by tweaking myself
06:55 <Gnorty> a long time since i did c++ tho
06:55 <n54> no idea :)
06:56 <Gnorty> I am thinking I can maybe cut/paste some of the fort code and killzone code together and make something
06:57 <Gnorty> 99% chance it will break totally, but who knows?
06:57 <n54> :)
07:00 <Gnorty> z-man says on the forum that most of the stuff I want is in phillipes spec, so not long to wait hopefully
07:00 <n54> ah ok
07:11 <Gnorty> I now know why the forts dont always kill :)
07:12 <n54> ok :)
07:19 <wrtlprnft> armabot: 
07:19 <wrtlprnft> oops
07:19 <n54> yeah
07:20 <n54> any idea why it's so messed up?
07:20 <wrtlprnft> just wanted to see if it's there, accidently pressed enter
07:20 <wrtlprnft> what's messed up?
07:20 <n54> oh
07:20 <n54> well the chatlog...
07:20 <wrtlprnft> I guess Lucifer_arma has pwer problems
07:20 <wrtlprnft> and the chatlog gets emptied every time it restarts
07:21 <n54> not correctly it seems, something breaks
07:23 <n54> at least I can't figure it out :)
07:48 <wrtlprnft> emerge gun && gun --shoot --target 'SF CVS'
07:57 <z-man> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "gun".
08:00 <z-man> The best I could find (the only thing) would be "sword"
08:02 <z-man> Hmm, there would also be "horde", but maybe that's abit to cruel
08:03  * z-man stops wasting time
08:24 <wrtlprnft> what about GUNzip?
08:26 <wrtlprnft> sword� Librarz for bible reading software... omg
08:26 <wrtlprnft> s/�/:-
08:27 <wrtlprnft> s/z/y
08:30 <z-man> eek, I didn't look what it was actually doing.
08:32 <wrtlprnft> interestinglz emerge -s koran doesn't findf anything...
08:32  * wrtlprnft is confused by this keyboard
08:33 <z-man> I think I saw something for that on freshmeat
08:35 <z-man> http://sourceforge.net/projects/zekr
08:35 <z-man> Provided quran == koran
08:36 <wrtlprnft> http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=/gQPUD&search=quran <-- looks like it
08:39 <n54> what are you doing? messing about? :)
08:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:48 <z-man> ceater, gunzip isn't emergeable :)
08:48 <z-man> cheater
08:48 <z-man> there's softgun, though
08:49 <z-man> or xplane & xbomb
08:50 <z-man> ok, this should by now have triggered Homeland Security
08:54 <n54> doubt it :)
08:54 <n54> (wrong agency)
08:55 <z-man> Well, parts of the listeners are in the US, right?
08:55 <n54> depends what you mean
08:55 <n54> but in any case it has little to do with DHS
08:56 <z-man> aww, never mind. I'm not in nitpicking mood.
08:56 <n54> it's not nitpicking :)
08:56 <z-man> That's what nitpickers always say :)
08:56  * z-man tries to divert the discussion
08:57 <n54> heh I don't care just go ahead and call it DHS if you please, I just pointed out that it's totally wrong that's all :)
09:00 <n54> jus to give you some real nitpicking: what we just had wasn't a discussion! ;D j/k :)
10:08 <guru3> n54: just had physics paper 1 & 2
10:09 <Luke-Jr> I just *love* when Gentoo upgrades MySQL to an incompatible version
10:09 <Luke-Jr> and when starting that new version with an old database corrupts it
10:09 <n54> hope it went well guru3 :)
10:10  * n54 remembers Luke being in love with libraries a few days ago :)
10:10 <guru3> not too bad n54 
10:10 <n54> good :)
10:10 <guru3> downside is the option paper tomorrow
10:10 <guru3> is gonna suck
10:11 <guru3> cause i don't know that stuff at all
10:12 <Luke-Jr> n54: who said anything about libraries?
10:12  * Luke-Jr pokes a needle into the dumb windozeluser >:|
10:13 <n54> yeah well wait poking until I'm talking from my windows machine, that way it will be slightly less pointless ;)
10:15 <Gnorty> n54 - what OS you using atm?
10:15 <n54> Knoppix atm
10:15 <Gnorty> k
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10:33 <Luke-Jr> woohoo recovered!
10:34 <Luke-Jr> for reference, I had to start mysql with users disabled (= read-write for anyone w/o passwords) and upgrade the db via the script
10:37 <Luke-Jr> now on to my next potentially dangerous upgrade
10:40 <Luke-Jr> courier-imap and postfix
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13:12 <philippeqc> hi
13:13 <n54> hi :)
13:34 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA7E5.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
13:37 <philippeqc> hi n54 
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14:23 <Gnorty> hi all
14:36 <philippeqc> hi gnorty
14:36 <philippeqc> just saw your pm
14:36 <philippeqc> sorry for the delay
14:42 <philippeqc> Good night!
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16:22 <Self_Destructo> CVS up today?
16:26 <Self_Destructo> evidently not
16:31 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:35 <n54> hi SD
16:41 <Self_Destructo> n54: hi
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17:19 <wrtlprnft> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#1145561022
17:19  * wrtlprnft wonders what's "partial" about this outage
17:21 <n54> means some projects are fine while others arent?
17:21 <n54> as to cvs access I mean
17:21 <n54> i.e. they're working on it :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> might be, but then they could maybe post some information about this?
17:22 <n54> isn't that what they've done?
17:22 <wrtlprnft> except the post form may 5 where they said everything was OK
17:22 <wrtlprnft> well, that there's an outage I noticed myself
17:22 <n54> hmm where does it say that?
17:23 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-248-234-102.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
17:23 <wrtlprnft> directly under "Rescent updates"
17:23 <n54> that's not how i read it
17:24 <wrtlprnft> anyways... let's have a look at z-man's vserver meanwhile :D
17:25 <n54> :)
17:25 <n54> hi mom :)
17:25 <wrtlprnft> if the forums are responsive enough to let me get to the username/password :D
17:26 <wrtlprnft> looks like they aren't :S
17:26 <n54> oh mom was leaving not coming :S 
17:26 <n54> :|
17:26 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:26 <n54> :)
17:26 <wrtlprnft> use tab completion and you'll notice :D
17:27 <n54> yeah true but sometimes tab names are just too "blocky" if you get what I mean
17:27 <joda_bot> gn8
17:27 <n54> but I always use it for yours ;)
17:27 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-041-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:27 <n54> cya joda
17:28 <wrtlprnft> heh. If I use tab completion on some of the DS or SP guys out there they sometimes get annoyed :D
17:28 <n54> :)
17:28 <wrtlprnft> seems like they don't like their own tags...
17:29 <n54> dunno
17:29 <wrtlprnft> n54: can you reach the forums?
17:29 <n54> arma? I'll try
17:30 <n54> yup
17:30 <wrtlprnft> weird
17:30 <n54> armagetron forum at tanks that is, or were yout hinking of something at sf+
17:30 <n54> thinking* sf?*
17:30 <wrtlprnft> I can't... wiki and google work fine, and irc does evidently
17:30 <wrtlprnft> no, i mean forums.armagetronad.net
17:31 <n54> yup they're ok, fast & clean for me
17:31 <n54> but then again I'm practically next door :D
17:31 <wrtlprnft> weird
17:32 <n54> what were you looking for? if it's something you know is there I could look for you
17:32 <wrtlprnft> well, you'd need to be in the dev group :S
17:32 <wrtlprnft> but thanks for offering :)
17:33 <n54> I might actually be...
17:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, can you see the "development stuff only" forum?
17:33 <n54> or is that just the public part?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> *development stAff lol
17:34 <n54> only Graphical Enhancements, Beta Testing, Beta Testers Only
17:34 <wrtlprnft> npe
17:34 <wrtlprnft> *nope
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17:34 <n54> ok :)
17:35 <wrtlprnft> aaah, now it works
17:35 <n54> I see some stuff about vServer though
17:35 <n54> ok
17:36 <wrtlprnft> no, but he has given the devs an ssh account
17:36 <n54> ah ok
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17:39 <wrtlprnft> huh?
17:39 <wrtlprnft> this server has a spamd running... hope it doesn't do what i think it does
17:40 <n54> daemonized version of spamassassin
17:41 <wrtlprnft> jeh just found that out
17:41 <n54> :)
17:41 <wrtlprnft> spamd sounds more like it sends spam
17:41 <n54> yeah
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19:33 <n54> hiya
19:46 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
19:46 <ghableska> Hi.
19:47 <wrtlprnft> grr
19:47 <ghableska> hullo wrtl
19:47 <wrtlprnft> autobanned from cvs fortress for spamming...
19:47 <ghableska> aww
19:47 <ghableska> i've had that happen
19:47 <ghableska> not to mention the "Vanhayes" thing
19:47 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:48 <n54> hi
19:48 <ghableska> hi
19:48 <wrtlprnft> 90% of ghableska's lines are just "hi" or "Hi." :D
19:49 <ghableska> hi :P
19:49 <n54> :)
19:49 <ghableska> that's because no one says anything else...
19:49 <ghableska> and the conversation just ends there
19:49 <wrtlprnft> well, it depends on when you join
19:49 <wrtlprnft> most people here are kinda online, but not really
19:49 <n54> it's been kind of silent the past days imo
19:49 <ghableska> true...
19:49 <wrtlprnft> but if you bring up a topic they'll discuss it
19:49 <ghableska> it's always silent when I join
19:50 <n54> yeah I'm usually not here even if I am
19:50 <ghableska> and if it isn't, it's all programming-related stuff
19:50 <wrtlprnft> just stay longer than 5 minutes :D
19:50 <n54> always at this time ghableska?
19:50 <ghableska> er, no
19:50 <ghableska> i haven't joined for a while...
19:50 <ghableska> eugh sun in my eyes
19:50 <ghableska> #insult sun
19:50 <n54> :)
19:50 <ghableska> blah
19:50 <ghableska> not working yet?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> emerge sword && sword --slice "SF CVS"
19:51 <ghableska> o_0
19:51 <n54> what/who?
19:51 <ghableska> it?
19:51 <n54> ah that
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:51 <ghableska> *feels left out*
19:51 <ghableska> :(
19:51 <wrtlprnft> at least sword actually exists
19:52  * n54 takes away that feeling from ghableska "ha ha ha try to get it back!"
19:52 <wrtlprnft> the CVS server we use is down at the moment, kinda preventing any development :D
19:52  * ghableska runs after n54
19:52 <ghableska> fun...
19:52 <n54> *yikes!*  runs even faster
19:52  * wrtlprnft sees if he can join CVS fortress again
19:53  * ghableska gets out of breath and falls over
19:53 <n54> hmm but you know even if you catch me you can't get that feeling back
19:53 <wrtlprnft> or no, it's kinda empty... boring
19:53 <ghableska> so...
19:53  * ghableska tries to get the conversation moving
19:54 <wrtlprnft> probably me and you left after he did
19:54 <n54> who?
19:54 <n54> ghableska?
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> yay.  94 on my calculus test :)
19:54 <ghableska> :)
19:54 <n54> congratulations :)
19:54 <wrtlprnft> lol. We had someone named me and someone named you on CVS fortress, and i renamed myself to he
19:54 <wrtlprnft> grats :)
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> finished my theatre class today with an A.  :)
19:54 <n54> so now you can play maths?
19:55 <n54> or act maths I mean
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  we used to do variations of Your_mom all the time.
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I can dramatize calculus.  :)
19:55 <n54> where are you from ghableska?
19:55 <n54> :)
19:55 <ghableska> US
19:55 <ghableska> you?
19:55 <n54> NO
19:55 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:55 <armabot>  4 
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it would be helpful if I quit mixing up product and power.  f(x) = sin(x)cos(x)
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> "Use the power rule"
19:56 <n54> i.e. norway
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> "er, Product Rule"
19:56 <ghableska> ah, 
19:56 <ghableska> cold?\
19:56 <ghableska> *?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> who can actually see that flag?
19:56 <n54> no, right now it's getting a bit too hot for me
19:56 <ghableska> I saw squares and a 4.
19:56 <wrtlprnft> here it's nice and warm
19:56 <ghableska> it's warm here too....I hate it
19:56  * wrtlprnft has a minor sunburn
19:56 <ghableska> :P
19:56 <wrtlprnft> i like it :D
19:56  * n54 didn't see no flag
19:57 <wrtlprnft> n54: get irssi :D
19:57 <ghableska> client?
19:57 <n54> I'm getting fat & unfit and I've been at it for a few years now so....
19:58 <wrtlprnft> n54: wou're running openbsd?
19:58  * n54 ponders renaming himself to Frozen Budda-popsickle
19:58 <wrtlprnft> or just sniffing into #openbsd?
19:58 <n54> not right at the moment wrtlprnft but as soon as possible (which is usually quite a long when it comes to me)
19:58 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:59 <wrtlprnft> why not wait for GNU HURD then? It'll be ready next year
19:59 <n54> I was starting with 3.8 before my main machine broke down and it's too unpractical for me to do much about as things are now
19:59 <n54> sure?
19:59 <wrtlprnft> absolutely ;)
19:59 <n54> isn't that like five years to fusion power?
20:00 <wrtlprnft> hmm, no, that's unrealistic :D
20:00 <n54> haha :D
20:00 <wrtlprnft> #f
20:00 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Q: What do you say to a New Yorker with a job? || A: Big Mac, fries and a Coke, please! || h
20:00 <n54> I thought HURD was supposed to come free with Duke Nukem Forever
20:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:01 <n54> :)
20:01  * wrtlprnft goes to see what happens if wrtlprnft switched this terminal to the arma font
20:02 <n54> but anyway yeah I might try HURD if I have the means & time & energy
20:03 <wrtlprnft> if i figure out how to do that, that is
20:03  * n54 prods ghableska "see? we're all crazy here so no worries" :)
20:03  * ghableska sees
20:03 <wrtlprnft> looks like my system doesn't think this is a fixed width font
20:04  * ghableska is busy hating his keyboard
20:04 <ghableska> gah
20:04 <n54> careful, it might trip your fingers
20:05 <ghableska> no...it's freezing every couple of seconds
20:05 <ghableska> along with the mouse
20:05 <n54> gah
20:05 <ghableska> with new batteries and everything
20:05 <ghableska> so I took out my old wired keyboard
20:05 <n54> makes sense
20:06 <ghableska> wrtl, has Vanhayes or Psyko contacted you about organizing a match?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> nope, not yet
20:06 <ghableska> ok, because they seem to be waiting for you to tell them
20:06 <ghableska> hmm
20:06 <wrtlprnft> well, our times are posted on the wiki
20:07 <wrtlprnft> give us a few days so we can get the team back together
20:07 <ghableska> ok
20:07 <ghableska> it's been quiet
20:07 <ghableska> in with a bang and out with a whimper...
20:07 <n54> mm
20:07 <wrtlprnft> emerge nuke && nuke --target 'SF CVS'
20:08 <ghableska> nukes heading towards the cvs server?
20:08 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:08 <ghableska> yay!
20:08  * ghableska feels smart
20:08 <ghableska> XD
20:08 <n54> that's sure to solve all our problems with getting cvs access at that server ;P
20:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:09 <ghableska> wow wrtl, the mbc page is so.......neat
20:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:09 <n54> germans & their ordnung! ;D
20:09 <ghableska> I suppose that's why we're "anarchic"
20:09 <n54> j/k!
20:09 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:10 <wrtlprnft> It's mostly because I'm the only one editing it... the AW page is more like a growing chaos
20:10 <n54> I haven't seen that page, link?
20:10 <n54> the one wrtlprnft edits I mean
20:10 <wrtlprnft> uh
20:11 <ghableska> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_%28Tronic_SPOON%29
20:11 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_(Tronic_SPOON)
20:11 <ghableska> :P
20:11 <wrtlprnft> ghab was faster :D
20:11 <ghableska> compared to....... this http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Anarchic_wanderers
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <n54> nice pic :)
20:12 <ghableska> hehe
20:12 <ghableska> dunno who found it
20:13  * ghableska has found a new obsession
20:13 <n54> do you dare tell us?
20:13 <ghableska> hmm
20:13 <ghableska> shall I.....? :P
20:14 <ghableska> it is *gasp*
20:14 <ghableska> terragen
20:14 <n54> that sounds familiar
20:14  * n54 can't remember what it was
20:15 <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerymain.php <------ New version coming out...
20:15 <n54> aaah yes
20:15 <ghableska> :)
20:15 <n54> can be used with quake and hl & stuff right?
20:16 <ghableska> dunno
20:16 <n54> perhaps it was an older versionor something but the name does ring a bell
20:16 <ghableska> can you export terrains?
20:16 <ghableska> because some of those look poly-heavy
20:16 <n54> I think only for the "sky-cube" in those games
20:17 <ghableska> ah
20:17 <ghableska> I suppose
20:17  * ghableska drools
20:17 <ghableska> http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD413.jpg
20:18 <n54> wow
20:18 <ghableska> i know
20:18 <ghableska> this was the best I could do with the current version
20:18 <ghableska> http://www.deviantart.com/view/32773397/
20:19 <n54> well that's not bad?
20:19 <ghableska> i guess...
20:20 <n54> brb
20:20 <ghableska> so...
20:21 <ghableska>  /me pokes wrtl
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20:22 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
20:24  * wrtlprnft was away
20:24 <ghableska> wb
20:24 <wrtlprnft> i was even marked as away ;)
20:24 <n54> I hate headaches
20:24 <ghableska> aww
20:25 <wrtlprnft> we won't ever get a good #chatlog if armabot comes and goes all the time...
20:26 <n54> hmm but does it still leave out the names?
20:26 <n54> #chatlog
20:26 <wrtlprnft> chatlog doesn but last --nolimit doesn't...
20:26 <wrtlprnft> #help chatlog
20:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (chatlog <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron $* --nolimit]".
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell
20:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: No closing quotation
20:27 <n54> # echo [$who]
20:27 <armabot> [n54]
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:27 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:27 <wrtlprnft> weird...
20:27 <n54> #chatlog
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #list alias
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, specialroulette, superdice, surprise, (1 more message)
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #more
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
20:28 <n54> try without $* at all?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:28 <n54> #chatlog
20:28 <wrtlprnft> nno
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: Commands may not be the result of nesting.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:29 <armabot> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]", nno, #chatlog, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", try without $* at all?, #more, #list alias, #chatlog, weird..., #chatlog, #alias add (1 more message)
20:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit"
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:29 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:29:52] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", [20:29:46] <wrtlprnft> hmm, [20:29:38] <wrtlprnft> #chatlog, [20:29:35] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", [20:29:28] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", [20:29:11] <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron (3 more messages)
20:29 <wrtlprnft> thats weird
20:29 <n54> ooh
20:29 <wrtlprnft> seems like it doesn't like nesting
20:30 <n54> yeah
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog2 "last --in #armagetron --nolimit"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "echo [chatlog2]"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #chatlog
20:30 <armabot> #alias add chatlog "echo [chatlog2]", #alias add chatlog2 "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", yeah, seems like it doesn't like nesting, ooh, thats weird, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "last --in #armagetron --nolimit", hmm, #chatlog, #alias add chatlog "echo [last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "[last --in #armagetron --nolimit]", #alias add chatlog "tell [echo wrtlprnft] (2 more messages)
20:30 <wrtlprnft> gah
20:30 <n54> :S
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias add chatlog "tell [echo $who] [last --in #armagetron --nolimit $*]"
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> #alias remove chatlog2
20:30 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:30 <wrtlprnft> can't even trick it...
20:30 <n54> #chatlog
20:31 <wrtlprnft> let's just make that simpler ;)
20:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, I cant have cronjobs? gah
20:32 <n54> #echo tell [$who] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <armabot> tell [n54] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <n54> #tell [$who] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:32 <armabot> n54: Error: I haven't seen [$who], I'll let you do the telling.
20:33 <n54> #[tell [$who]] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:33 <n54> # [tell [$who]] last --in #armagetron --nolimit
20:33 <n54> meh
20:34  * n54 wants a new brain for christmas
20:35 <ghableska> lol
20:35 <n54> :)
20:35 <ghableska> that was the first thing I was able to understand for the past couple of minutes...
20:35 <ghableska> ;)
20:35 <n54> hehe np
20:36 <n54> we're just messing with the bot trying to make it behave but...
20:36 <ghableska> it's not?
20:36 <n54> it's not :)
20:36 <ghableska> what were you trying to get it to do?
20:36 <n54> to make it list what people says (like past conversation) but to do it privately
20:36 <ghableska> ah
20:37 <n54> and with the names of whoever speaks
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add realchatlogs "echo scp irclogs/FreeNode/\#armagetron.log wrtlprnft.ath.cx:/www2/armalogs.txt"
20:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:37 <n54> and we only manage one or the other not both at the same time :S
20:37 <ghableska> lol
20:37 <wrtlprnft> err, no
20:37 <wrtlprnft> unintended
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #alias add realchatlogs "echo http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt"
20:37 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:37 <wrtlprnft> #realchatlogs
20:37 <armabot> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt
20:38 <ghableska> *click*
20:38 <n54> *click* too
20:38 <wrtlprnft> waaay easier
20:38 <ghableska> ooh, interesting
20:38 <wrtlprnft> it's a cronjob every 5 minutes
20:38 <wrtlprnft> at least i hope so
20:38 <n54> for how long back will it look?
20:39 <wrtlprnft> well, currently there's no limit
20:39 <wrtlprnft> it's from the point in time where i switched to irssi
20:39 <n54> yikles :)
20:39 <wrtlprnft> but I'll probably have to write a script around it once it gets too large
20:40 <n54> yup
20:41 <wrtlprnft> yay it just updated all by itself
20:41 <ghableska> *pats*
20:41 <n54> :)
20:41 <wrtlprnft> now you all have to smile and feel like you're being watched :D
20:41 <n54> lol
20:41 <ghableska> Hehe.
20:41 <ghableska> how often does it update?
20:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with 5
20:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:38:45] <wrtlprnft> it's a cronjob every 5 minutes
20:42 <ghableska> ok
20:42 <n54> oh
20:42 <n54> I missed that too
20:42 <ghableska> *looks up cronjob*
20:43 <wrtlprnft> I might actually move my irc client to my server at home and use it over ssh
20:43 <n54> just liek timer really, for automating doing stuff
20:43 <ghableska> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron
20:43 <ghableska> ;)
20:43 <n54> like a timer*
20:43 <n54> :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> a little hardlink and it would update instantaneously
20:44 <wrtlprnft> and it would probably more reliable than this machine
20:44 <wrtlprnft> insert a "be" anywhere you like in my previous sentence
20:44 <ghableska> :)
20:44 <n54> :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> update in 15 seconds
20:44 <n54> boom?
20:44 <ghableska> and counting...
20:44 <wrtlprnft> 10
20:44 <ghableska> :P
20:44 <wrtlprnft> 5
20:45 <n54> big boom!
20:45 <ghableska> *watches mushroom cloud rise into the air*
20:45 <n54> lol
20:45 <wrtlprnft> hehe
20:45 <wrtlprnft> n54: your line got the last :D
20:45 <ghableska> wrtl, what did you do this time?? :P
20:45 <n54> hehe
20:45 <wrtlprnft> i just watched the clock of my computer
20:46 <n54> ?
20:46 <wrtlprnft> for the countdown ;)
20:46 <n54> oh... I just typed :)
20:47 <ghableska> so..
20:48 <n54> what is going on?
20:48 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: did you see the new font screenshots?
20:48 <ghableska> yes
20:48 <ghableska> they're nice :D
20:49 <wrtlprnft> see the new arma font as well?
20:49 <ghableska> ?
20:49 <wrtlprnft> (lucifer's screenshots)
20:49 <n54> I got to go, my head is killing me and I can't take more pills :( cya :)
20:49 <ghableska> bye, hope you get better
20:49 <wrtlprnft> night
20:49 <n54> thanks :)
20:49 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
20:50 <ghableska> wrtl, what were you talking about?
20:50 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47246#47246
20:50 <ghableska> mm
20:50 <ghableska> nice
20:50 <ghableska> less blocky
20:51 <wrtlprnft> they're a bit out of date, i adjusted the spacing a bit and corrected some mistakes
20:51 <ghableska> still look good though :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:52 <ghableska> #praise wrtl
20:52  * armabot gives wrtl a cookie
20:52 <ghableska> ;)
20:52 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:53 <ghableska> how are you?
20:53 <wrtlprnft> those terragen screenshots look nice :D
20:53 <wrtlprnft> good
20:53 <ghableska> I know
20:53 <ghableska> can't wait for the new one to come out
20:54 <wrtlprnft> you really almost couldn't tell thoese mountain pictures from real- world photos
20:54 <ghableska> yeah
20:54 <ghableska> and you can get landscape data to make terrains...
20:54 <ghableska> i love the volumetric clouds :D
20:54 <wrtlprnft> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=19&ind=7&group=0
20:55 <wrtlprnft> that one looks kinda weird
20:55 <wrtlprnft> the shadows are too long for that time of the day
20:55 <ghableska> yeah, but the clouds are amazing
20:55 <ghableska> and look at this
20:55 <ghableska> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Nature.jpg
20:55 <wrtlprnft> wow
20:56 <wrtlprnft> now you'd need to be able to walk through that in realtime :D
20:56 <ghableska> mm
20:56 <wrtlprnft> but i guess those images are worth hours of rendering...
20:56 <ghableska> yeah, but with great results :D
20:56 <ghableska> http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD413.jpg poly-crazy
20:57 <wrtlprnft> wow.
20:57 <wrtlprnft> who still wants to go outside and take real photos? ;)
20:57 <ghableska> hehe
20:57 <ghableska> oh wow
20:57 <ghableska> http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=4
20:57 <ghableska> 13.5 billion polygons...
20:58 <ghableska> :-O
20:58 <wrtlprnft> you like clouds, do you?
20:58 <ghableska> eh, no, not really
20:58 <ghableska> but you have to admire how well it can create them
20:58 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Big_sky.jpg
20:59  * ghableska drools
20:59 <ghableska> photorealistic, this one: http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=1
20:59 <wrtlprnft> looks like those photos taken from planes :D
21:00 <ghableska> yeah...
21:01 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Eroded_strata.jpg
21:01 <ghableska> :D
21:01 <ghableska> the ocean looks quite nice...
21:01 <ghableska> http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=2
21:02 <ghableska> #praise Terragen
21:02  * armabot gives Terragen a cookie
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #armamot do you have to many cookies?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> *too
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #armabot do you have too many cookies?
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Maybe...
21:03 <ghableska> lol
21:03 <ghableska> #armabot can I have one?
21:03 <armabot> ghableska: It is so.
21:03 <ghableska> o_0
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #eliza ghableska needs help :D
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say ghableska needs help d?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> #eliza i just say that to test you
21:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Is it because to test me that you came to me?
21:04 <ghableska> heheh
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #eliza do you know any grammar?
21:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What do you think?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #eliza i think you don't
21:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Why do you say you think me don 't?
21:04 <ghableska> Ew.
21:04 <wrtlprnft> screw that
21:04 <wrtlprnft> #f
21:04 <armabot> Random Fortune:  You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.
21:04 <ghableska> #f
21:04 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Because the wine remembers.
21:05 <wrtlprnft> http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/TGD/Images/Rocky_planet.jpg WOW
21:07 <ghableska> psh
21:07 <ghableska> that one isn't that good
21:07 <ghableska> :P
21:07 <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=1&ind=17&group=1
21:08 <ghableska> still gotta love those clouds ;)
21:10  * ghableska pokes wrtl
21:40 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
21:45 <ghableska> hey spidey
21:46 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:48 <wrtlprnft> spider: looks like aw want to get our match going... any times you're unavailable in the next week?
21:48 <spider> i'm always here
21:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, ok
21:49 <spider> result of not having a fuckin life
21:49 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:49 <spider> i just fixed my slide problem
21:49 <wrtlprnft> how?
21:49 <spider> the copy of xp i had was stripped
21:49 <spider> 700mb install
21:49 <wrtlprnft> pff
21:49 <spider> missing alot of stuff
21:50 <spider> i got a legit copy off a friend
21:50 <spider> now tron runs smoothly
21:50 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:50 <wrtlprnft> even newer versions?
21:50 <spider> yea
21:50 <wrtlprnft> then move your ass and upgrade... That binary hacking sucks
21:51 <wrtlprnft> won't work with future alphas anyways
21:51 <spider> duuude
21:51 <spider> lik
21:51 <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg 
21:51 <spider> :>
21:51 <spider> i sexi
21:51 <spider> ;p
21:51 <wrtlprnft> it won't be the server blocking the client but the client refusing to connect to the server :D
21:52 <spider> hmm?
21:52 <spider> ways around everything
21:52 <spider> specially sense it's open source
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, if you're gonna recompile arma you could as well fix your imaginary problem
21:52 <spider> imaginary problem?
21:53 <wrtlprnft> well, there was no code change to justify it
21:53 <spider> doesn't explain why i had the problem
21:53 <spider> i don't think i would make something up just to do it
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the rc4 code is the final code except that there was that security fix
21:54 <spider> well
21:54 <spider> strange
21:54 <spider> i'm not the only one that had that problem
21:54 <spider> still imaginary?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> probably it was a problem with the build, maybe z-man made the final build differently from the rc4
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22:04 <spider> didn't answer the question wrtl...if it's imaginary,how is it other people's complained to?
22:05 <wrtlprnft> dunno. probably imaginary is the wrong word, but it certainly had to do with your system
22:06 <spider> well,solidus posted the same thing
22:06 <spider> he's on a mac
22:06 <spider> damien
22:06 <spider> wizz
22:06 <spider> you read the thread
22:07 <wrtlprnft> i did, but there was no real description there
22:07 <wrtlprnft> and it was on the wrong forums anyways. If you want the problem fixed post on the official forums with a recording and someone will try to help you
22:08 <spider> i don't care if it gets fixed or not,i'm just pissed right now,i'll minimize before i say soemthing else
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Log from 2006-05-10:
--- Day changed Wed May 10 2006
00:05 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
00:09 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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00:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper
03:15 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:18 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #Armagetron
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05:19 <z-man> #chatlog spider
05:20 <z-man> #last spider http
05:20 <armabot> z-man: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
05:20 <z-man> #more
05:20 <armabot> z-man: --nolimit returns all the messages that can be found. By default, the channel this command is given in is searched.
05:21 <z-man> Eh, don't get it. What link to a bug describing thread di spider give?
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [05:20:42] <z-man> #last spider http
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http --nolimit
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [05:21:37] <z-man> #last --with http, [05:20:42] <z-man> #last spider http, [01:33:03] <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper, [21:51:36] <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg, [21:08:11] <ghableska> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/gallery/gallerypage.php?item=1&ind=17&group=1, [21:05:30] <wrtlprnft> (3 more messages)
05:21 <z-man> #last --with http --from spider --nolimit
05:21 <armabot> z-man: [21:51:36] <spider> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/386/picture0010gq.jpg
05:24 <z-man> #last --with http --from spidey --nolimit
05:24 <armabot> z-man: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 645 messages.
05:24 <z-man> that's a short historty, armabot.
05:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-041-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
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07:19 <wrtlprnft> z-man: it's a thread inside the mbc forums, I'll pick it out
07:40 <wrtlprnft> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6434
07:41 <wrtlprnft> but if you don't have an account, don't bother. those all (except spidey's) seem to be general complaints about's look and rubber differences, and we all know that...
07:41 <wrtlprnft> noone there is talking about rc4 <=> final
07:51 <wrtlprnft> z-man: if you want a ling history: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt armabot's history gets reset every time it gets disconnected. And spidey didn't even post and URI since he, as he said, has no interest in getting the problem fixed
07:51 <wrtlprnft> *long
07:55 <z-man> thanks wrtl, no, I won't bother getting an account.
07:56 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:56 <wrtlprnft> maybe spider_ meant another thread, but i couldn't find one
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11:18 <guru3> was it said here?
11:18 <guru3> i've got complete chat logs
11:18 <guru3> for like... ever
11:18 <guru3> what am i looking for?
11:20 <n54> ?
11:21 <guru3> 12:00:06 < z-man> #last --with http --from spidey --nolimit
11:21 <guru3> z-man was looking for something
11:22 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50872173.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:23 <n54> oh.... bug hunt?
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13:50 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:03 <wrtlprnft> guru3: z-man was looking for the thread spider_ mentioned but never cared to link to
15:11 <wrtlprnft> -ipconnect.de] has joined
15:19 <guru3> okay
15:26 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
15:26 <Gnorty> ping
15:35 <guru3> pong
15:35 <guru3> great game
15:47 <Gnorty> kinda slow, and tbh the gameplay could use some work, but if you think it's fun...
15:47 <Gnorty> ping
15:47 <Gnorty> I dont think it will take off
15:48 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
15:48 <armabot> pong
15:48 <Gnorty> hey! this is a 2 player game :|
15:50 <joda_bo1> #pong
15:50 <armabot> pung
15:50 <joda_bo1> #pung
15:50 <armabot> pang
15:50 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as jod1
15:50 -!- jod1 is now known as joda_bot
15:54 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> #pang
15:58 <armabot> peng
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> #peng
15:58 <armabot> ping
15:58 <Lucifer_arma> no pyng?
15:59  * Lucifer_arma notes when nobody plays the game, you use AIs instead
15:59 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
16:00 <wrtlprnft> AIs can't play fortress really well
16:00 <joda_bot> #tell armabot ping
16:00 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: You just told me, why should I tell myself?
16:00 <wrtlprnft> #ping
16:01 <armabot> pong
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pong
16:01 <armabot> pung
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pung
16:01 <armabot> pang
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #pang
16:01 <armabot> peng
16:01 <wrtlprnft> #peng
16:01 <armabot> ping
16:01 <joda_bot> #P?ng
16:01 <joda_bot> #p?ng
16:01 <joda_bot> :P
16:01 <joda_bot> #poeng
16:01 <wrtlprnft> no, those don't exist :D
16:13  * n54 just saw this movie on tv and it was entertaining http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0309698/
16:18 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-015-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:32 <guru3> my parents watched that a while back
16:33 <n54> hi :)
16:33 <guru3> 8 more exams n54 
16:33 <n54> gah
16:33 <guru3> done 7
16:33 <n54> another full week?
16:36 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:55 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:08 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:39 <ghableska> hello
17:39 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
17:39 <ghableska> hi wrtl
17:39  * wrtlprnft is frustrated by some weird error that should never happen
17:39 <ghableska> aww
17:41 <wrtlprnft> "Arithmetic Exception"
17:42 <ghableska> mm
17:42  * ghableska has no idea what that is, but feels sorry all the same ;)(
17:42 <wrtlprnft> happens in a library function with totally normal parameters
17:42 <wrtlprnft> heh. I don't excactly know under what condition that happens either
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> 2 more exams for me :)
17:43 <ghableska> sounds fun
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> both tomorrow....
17:43 <wrtlprnft> oh wow
17:43 <ghableska> even better ;)
17:43 <wrtlprnft> well, at least it's over then ;)
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it's calculus in the morning, then about a 3 hour break, and then history.  So I'm studying calculus right now and tonight, and I'll do my history studying in those 3 hours.  :)
17:44 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> registered for my calc II class already, it starts May 30, it looks like.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> that's a nice chunk of time in between :D
17:45  * Lucifer_arma needs to update his plan to accomodate working in General Chemistry and the physics class he just found out he has to take
17:45  * ghableska is taking physics and chem next year...
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that chunk of time used to be my texas government class and my stupid theatre class, but I finished both of those classes yesterday.
17:45 <wrtlprnft> hmm. I could offer you a fix for the problem with the screen ratio right now if a) it didn't crash and b) sf CVS would work
17:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have to take the physics and chem in the fall, they're prerequisites for other classes and I can't have them bottlenecking me.
17:46 <Lucifer_arma> I already took the chem class, but dropped it when the best I could get out of it was a C.  Big daddy doesn't do Cs.
17:46 <wrtlprnft> don't remind me of physics
17:46 <ghableska> hehe
17:47 <wrtlprnft> the physics class i'm in right now is so boring, not hard or something, it's just going slooow
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's kinda annoying that I have to take the algebra-based physics class as a prereq for the calc-based physics.  :(
17:47 <ghableska> aren't they related?
17:47 <wrtlprnft> usually i spend half the time we're given for working with reading and the teaching time sleeping because it's so easy
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they are.  I should look on the bright side, it's more algebra drill for me, and I need that.
17:47 <ghableska> lol
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> but more likely the calc-based class is going to reveal why the algebra works, and I can just learn the algebra then, but the school disagrees with me
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> still, I'll take the good with the bad.  It's going to upset my plan enough to force me into another semester at community college, which means I can take an extra class that I had originally put off for the 4 year school,
17:49 <wrtlprnft> always important to know why something works
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> and that results in saving money.  :)
17:49 <ghableska> always good
17:49 <wrtlprnft> that's one of the reasons why this physics class is so boring
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, it's also more money spent, because of the extra class.  Heh.
17:50 <wrtlprnft> it's just, "here's the formula and you'll get on the test". heck, if i am given the formula on the test why am i even in class? I could just go to the test and read and apply it
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> I hated high school, man.  As much as I hate memorizing formulas, I like that I have to.
17:51 <ghableska> uh oh
17:51 <ghableska> well, 9th grade wasn
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> also, it's almost a certainty that this particular physics class will go very quickly.  It's a semester, and the material will be equal to or greater the amount of material given in a year's high school physics class
17:51 <ghableska> *wasn't too bad 
17:51 <wrtlprnft> If i know that the formula is on the test I won't learn it and never remember it anytime after the test
17:52 <ghableska> so far at least
17:52  * Lucifer_arma is still riding the buzz from his last calc test :)
17:52 <ghableska> :)
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on top of the world!
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:52 <wrtlprnft> The intersting question is: "how do i derive the formula from more basic ones?". then I can just re-derive it when needed in case i forgot it
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> A more interesting question is, "Should I start dishes right now and then take a dump, or take a dump and then start dishes?"
18:03 <ghableska> latter
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking you're right
18:03 <ghableska> :)
18:06 <n54> yeah definetly option number 2
18:06 <ghableska> hehe
18:06 <n54> :)
18:06 <ghableska> headache gone?
18:06 <n54> yeah sort of :)
18:06 <n54> at least it's "hidign" :)
18:06 <n54> hiding*
18:07 <ghableska> hehe
18:07 <n54> :)
18:08 <ghableska> so...
18:09 <n54> hmm...
18:13  * n54 kicks a can
18:13 <ghableska> heh
18:13 <n54> :)
18:20 <ghableska> mm
18:20 <ghableska> #f
18:20 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Madness has no purpose. Or reason. But it may have a goal. || -- Spock, "The Alternative Factor", stardate 3088.7
18:20 <ghableska> lol
18:21 <n54> :)
18:21 <ghableska> how are you?
18:22 <n54> me?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> what the heck is happening with arma here? At one point I change the value of some variable, and the next time it gets used it is back at the old one...
18:22 <ghableska> lol wow.... http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/
18:24 <n54> gah that site is a pain to read though :S
18:24 <ghableska> yeah
18:24 <ghableska> ads everywhere...
18:25 <n54> yup
18:27 <wrtlprnft> i dont see any ads
18:27 <ghableska> ?
18:27 <ghableska> hmmm
18:28 <n54> the ads are one thing the other is that each page content is tiny
18:29 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/noads.png
18:29 <wrtlprnft> new application for kruler :D
18:30 <ghableska> nice
18:30 <wrtlprnft> I should have made them all different colors :D
18:31 <n54> I thought the article was a joke at first but it isn't is it?
18:31 <ghableska> i got the link from slashdot...
18:32 <n54> hmm that makes me dubious again ;)
18:32 <ghableska> ;)
18:35 <n54> I skipped to the last page and I've got to say I wonder what the deal is with drilling into the cpu...
18:35 <ghableska> hehehe
18:36 <ghableska> anyone heard of Spore?
18:37 <n54> nope
18:38 <ghableska> http://www.gamespy.com/articles/595/595975p1.html if you haven't searched for it already...
18:38 <ghableska> it really starts talking about it on the second page though...
18:39 <n54> ah ok I' still stuck on the drilling into cpu's stuff :)
18:39 <ghableska> hehehe
18:41 <wrtlprnft> OUCH
18:41 <wrtlprnft> now i see why it changed...
18:41 <ghableska> ?
18:41 <wrtlprnft> grr what a stupid bug
18:41 <ghableska> ?
18:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I'll make that DTD this week, hopefully
18:43 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:43  * ghableska feels stupid
18:43 <ghableska> i forgot about the tab name filler...
18:43 <ghableska> until now.
18:43 <ghableska> :X
18:43 <n54> oh I read about that spore game in wired, they had something on that
18:44 <ghableska> sounds interesting..
18:44 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: guess where i got the idea for arma from?
18:44 <ghableska> ?
18:44 <ghableska> the tab thing?
18:45 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:45 <n54> yes ghableska
18:45 <ghableska> ok, where...?
18:45  * n54 emant the game
18:45 <wrtlprnft> i got it from irc ghableska ghableska from irc i got it ghableska 
18:46 <wrtlprnft> :D
18:46 <ghableska> creative... :P
18:46  * wrtlprnft is going crazy
18:46  * ghableska can tell
18:48  * ghableska wants terragen 2
18:48 <ghableska> :D:D:D:D:D:D
18:49 <wrtlprnft> why can't you get it?
18:49 <ghableska> not out yet :P
18:49 <wrtlprnft> #g 1024/768+1
18:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (1,024 / 768) + 1 = 2.33333333
18:50 <ghableska> aspect ratio?
18:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 3/4
18:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 3 / 4 = 0.75
18:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, really?
18:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 3/4+1
18:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (3 / 4) + 1 = 1.75
18:58 -!- Manta [n=kim@64-118-125-35-as-06.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has joined #armagetron
18:59 <wrtlprnft> phew... fixed it now
18:59 <wrtlprnft> now i just need a working CVS and Lucifer_arma to test it
18:59 <wrtlprnft> i have no idea how to convince to use another screen ratio than 4:3
18:59 <wrtlprnft> *convince arma
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> hack the window sizes array and add a different ratio to it
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> I forget where it is, though.  sorry.  :(
19:00 <n54> hehe someone at the obsd channel posted this: http://mfrost.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/gracem.jpg
19:01 <wrtlprnft> heh. the openbsd guys seem to be exactly as offtopic as we are
19:01 <n54> they're about x64 times loonier for the most part (not a sane soul in sight there) XD
19:02 <n54> and they have a penchant for insult :)
19:02 <wrtlprnft> luckily they have you :D
19:04 <n54> that reply is somehow in the right direction but they/we usually take it further than that ;)
19:10 <n54> wrtlprnft: seems your wish sort of came true or is beginning to come true; http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/05/10/0439246.shtml
19:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
19:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
19:21 <Self_Destructo> <!ATTLIST Message
19:21 <Self_Destructo> 		type (center | console | admin | cockpit)
19:21 <Self_Destructo> think you will be able to support the cockpit one?
20:03 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: kinda hard since it needs extra cockpit code
20:04 <wrtlprnft> I need to revise the cockit DTD btw :S
20:04 <wrtlprnft> it's kinda repetive right now
20:08 -!- Manta [n=kim@64-118-125-35-as-06.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:19 <wrtlprnft> yay figured out how <!ENTITY> works :D
20:22 <n54> :)
20:22 <wrtlprnft> by reverse engineering the XHTML 1.0 strict DTD :D
20:24 <n54> this site although not especially deep is a nice place for quick lookups (especially if you've forgotten something you used to know): http://www.w3schools.com/dtd/dtd_entities.asp
20:25 <n54> it's got the same for html, css, xml & probably some other stuff too *doesn't remember*
20:26 <wrtlprnft> DTDs and XML aren't easy to separate :D
20:26 <n54> yeah it can be a hassle
20:27 <wrtlprnft> but i didn't know that all those &auml; things are <!ENTITIES>
20:27 <n54> at least to my experience most people who come from a html background find it that way in the start
20:27 <wrtlprnft> although they're called entities, of course...
20:28 <n54> another quickie might be to as SD since xml etc. is his thing
20:29 <wrtlprnft> well, the DTD was working, I just had lotsa repeated stuff and it was a pain to edit
20:29 <n54> since he learnt xml etc. before html I mean
20:29 <n54> yeah I got you on that :)
20:31 <n54> if I thought I could be counted on to produce anything within a reasonable timeframe I would assist
20:31 <wrtlprnft> Get CVS HEAD running :D
20:32 <n54> haha, no :)
20:32 <wrtlprnft> i'm sure Self_Destructo can tell you excactly how to do that :D
20:32 <wrtlprnft> -c
20:32 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't take too ling
20:32 <wrtlprnft> *long
20:32  * wrtlprnft kicks his keyboard
20:33 <n54> sorry but it's not an option for me, I can barely get through the days as it is :)
20:33 <n54> hopefully in the future :D
20:34 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:34 <n54> perhaps within the next five years I'll manage to cough up a font or two :) (I won't aim higher than that)
20:36 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:36 <n54> hehe and if I look at my past trackrecord the last three years even that may be stretching it ;)
20:36 <n54> or pushing :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: upload script for resources doesn't work
20:51  * wrtlprnft screws the central script and uploads the map to his own server
20:52 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: so detailed... o.o
20:52 <wrtlprnft> well, it throws an internal server error
20:52  * Luke-Jr smacks Apache for being undetailed
20:52 <wrtlprnft> i assumed you could figure it out from the error log ;)
20:53 <Luke-Jr> probably relevant that over the past day and next few, I'm actually upgrading stuff
20:53 <Luke-Jr> [Thu May 11 01:51:42 2006] [error] [client] /usr/bin/php-cgi: error while loading shared libraries: libmysqlclient.so.12: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
20:54 <wrtlprnft> uh
20:54 <wrtlprnft> that script uses mysql?
20:55 <Luke-Jr> no
20:55 <Luke-Jr> but dynamic linking of php-cgi fails
20:55 <wrtlprnft> well... I'll still use my own repository :D
20:55 <Luke-Jr> and that script uses CGI for setuid
20:56 <Luke-Jr> I suspect if I restart Apache now I'll have problems
20:56 <Luke-Jr> boo
20:57 <Luke-Jr> oh well, I don't expect php will be done recompiling before I leave-- so hopefully it will fix tiself
21:05 <wrtlprnft> anyone up to join crazy lines so i can see if it works right?
21:05 <wrtlprnft> (arma server)
21:05 <Luke-Jr> nope, no time
21:10 <wrtlprnft> it'll be a fine surprise for everyone who joins until it's fixed :d
21:11 <wrtlprnft> it renames everyone to Player 1, gives them a boring default tail color and lets them say "/me is a noob." every round
21:11  * Lucifer_arma notices the prominent announcement that indictes the central repository is down and servers depending on it may not work
21:11 <wrtlprnft> it's up, you just can't upload new maps
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
21:56 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: it can be there, and implemented as we got I guess.
21:56 <Self_Destructo> go*
21:56 <Self_Destructo> I could have told you how entities work, btw
--- Log closed Wed May 10 21:56:42 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 10 21:56:51 2006
21:56 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:56 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 8 secs
21:57 <wrtlprnft> what the...
21:57 <wrtlprnft> IRSSI seemingly just froze for half an hour
21:57 <n54> strange
21:58 <wrtlprnft> probably i pressed CTRL-Z or something
21:58 <wrtlprnft> hmm, no, no effect
21:59 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ok, works now. I'll still use my personal repository though, the server is already configured :D
22:00 <wrtlprnft> not ANOTHER kernel release
22:00 <wrtlprnft> do they come in 12- hour tacts now?
22:00 <n54> hehe
22:00 <wrtlprnft> especially since those kernel logs don't tell me anything
22:01 <wrtlprnft> no idea if that's a serious security hole or just a possible crash in some exotic driver
22:03 <wrtlprnft> anyways
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:04 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:04 <n54> cya all I'm leaving too
22:04 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []

Log from 2006-05-11:
--- Day changed Thu May 11 2006
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06:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I hope the version increments quickly, 2.6.18 is supposed to include a driver for my WiFi dongle
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07:30 -!- joda_bot [n=joda@perugia.math.uni-paderborn.de] has joined #armagetron
07:30 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft, are you there ? ;)
07:31 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6965
07:31 <joda_bot> :)
07:37 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: now i am
07:41 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: So is MBC interested in playing vs. the 8th or do we just skip that ?
07:41 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: For me it depends on MBC and we only qualify for further matches if that's ok for the other teams
07:43 <joda_bot> #later tell wrtlprnft ping ;)
07:43 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
07:44 <joda_bot> #echo #echo echo
07:44 <armabot> #echo echo
07:44 <joda_bot> #later tell armabot #echo #later tell armabot ...
07:44 <armabot> joda_bot: Error: I can't send notes to myself.
07:46 <joda_bot> #echo #ping
07:46 <armabot> #ping
07:46 <joda_bot> #say #ping
07:48 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ok, i should then check with AW and something something right ?
07:49 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: If one of them disagrees with us reentering we declare it training otherwise we do a playoff
07:49 <joda_bot> us=8th
07:50 <wrtlprnft> if you want you can :D
07:50 <wrtlprnft> (honestly doesn't matter for us we'll likely get stomped anyways :D )
07:52 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: nah, we just mess ourself up too ;)
07:54 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Who decides the dates for MBC ?
07:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, generally I just ask a date and if there's enough people who can play it's set :)
07:58 <joda_bot> ok, I'll offer some proposals then
08:12 <joda_bot> #later tell lackadaisical Does ?? support the 8th replacing Knights of Ni? if not we only do a friendship game vs. MBC
08:12 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
08:14 <z-man> anyone else confused by the team ancronyms?
08:16 <joda_bot> z-man: yes ;) atleast at times I get confused by "??" = Team Something Something
08:17 <joda_bot> z-man: the rest is fine for me
08:17 <wrtlprnft> not that compilicated
08:17 <z-man> That's about the only one that doesn't confuse me :)
08:17 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: we could plan and play the game and then see if it counts :D
08:17 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I already considered doing it tonight ;)
08:18 <wrtlprnft> depends on if I can get my team together :D
08:18 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: same for me ;)
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:19  * joda_bot hates Thunderbird using konqueror
08:19 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey you ready to play a match vs 8T tonight?
08:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
08:20 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: which time ?=
08:20 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: 18:00 GMT ok ?
08:20 <joda_bot> or earlier ;)
08:21 <wrtlprnft> #g 18:00 GMT in CDT
08:21 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
08:21 <wrtlprnft> aww
08:21 <wrtlprnft> if that's 1PM CDT I can't play...
08:21 <joda_bot> hm
08:22 <joda_bot> CDT = GMT-5
08:22 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:22 <joda_bot> ok, let's find a timezone overlap ;)
08:22 <wrtlprnft> 18:00 - 5:00 == 13:00
08:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/MBC_(Tronic_SPOON)#General_availability
08:23 <joda_bot> oh my way ;)
08:23 <joda_bot> oh = on
08:23 <wrtlprnft> bst is GMT - 1 IIRC
08:24 <joda_bot> are demomatt or amoosh important ?
08:24 <wrtlprnft> well
08:24 <joda_bot> because they kind of lock down the corridor ;)
08:24 <wrtlprnft> we need 5 players i guess
08:24 <wrtlprnft> and count out wizz, she doesn't play spoon anymore
08:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: not a problem as she is available all time ;)
08:26 <wrtlprnft> well, it is a problem since that makes one player less :D
08:26 <joda_bot> 6PM-9PM looks ok ...
08:26 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: reload and look if it's still 5 :D
08:26 <wrtlprnft> but spider_ isn't on the list and i hope he can play
08:26 <joda_bot> this is 13:00-16:00 GMT
08:27 <joda_bot> e.g. 15:00 - 18:00 GMT ?
08:27 <joda_bot> uhh... last was GMT+2 (Germany)
08:27 <wrtlprnft> err
08:27 <wrtlprnft> 6PM == 18:00
08:28 <wrtlprnft> 18:00 + 5:00 = 23:00
08:28 <wrtlprnft> that's 1AM in Germany then
08:28 <joda_bot> 6PM CDT => 1 PM GMT => 3 PM GMT+2
08:29 <wrtlprnft> yuh have to add 5, not subtract...
08:29 <wrtlprnft> *you
08:29 <joda_bot> uh ah right ;)
08:29 <joda_bot> makes sense
08:30 <joda_bot> aw that makes it pretty difficult ...
08:30 <wrtlprnft> :(
08:30 <wrtlprnft> weekend?
08:31 <joda_bot> our times are usually 13:00-22:00 GMT => 08:00-17:00 CDT ?
08:31 <joda_bot> That's weekend times
08:31 <joda_bot> we might at most pick 23:00 GMT
08:31 <wrtlprnft> saturday (almost) any time is fine with mwe
08:32 <joda_bot> it's already 01:00 AM (German time)
08:32 <wrtlprnft> heh. I know joda_bot... that's why weekends are the only time i can call my parents
08:32 <joda_bot> ok, you try to get 5 players as early as possible and I try to get them as late as possible
08:32 <wrtlprnft> lol
08:33 <joda_bot> sasha has no problem playing late
08:33 <wrtlprnft> 5PM is bad for me, 4PM would be better
08:34 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: which timezone ;)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> mine
08:34 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: we should make it ;) because there are quite some us players 
08:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ah wrong they're form the uk ;)
08:35 <joda_bot> so it's the same problem for them
08:35 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: can you post that time on the mbc forums (4PM CDT)?
08:35 <wrtlprnft> or 2PM, something like that
08:35 <wrtlprnft> I can't from here due to some stupid internet filter
08:36 <joda_bot> 4pm CDT => 21:00 GMT => 23:00 GMT+2
08:36 <joda_bot> ok ?
08:36 <joda_bot> just to make sure we have the same idea and I did not mess up conversion
08:36 <wrtlprnft> yes, that looks fine
08:37 <joda_bot> so earlier is a nono for MBC ?
08:37 <wrtlprnft> i can play earlier
08:37 <wrtlprnft> you can ask for earlier time, see who can play
08:38 <wrtlprnft> you could pobably even get it to 1PM
08:39 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: 1pm CDT => 13:00 CDT => 18:00 GMT => 20:00 GMT+2
08:39 <wrtlprnft> if all come as that table says we'll get ota, SD, spider_, and EE, that's gonna be a nice team :)
08:39 <joda_bot> which sounds a lot more comfortable for us
08:39 <wrtlprnft> then make it 1PM :)
08:39 <wrtlprnft> i just said 4PM was the latest i could come
08:39 <wrtlprnft> and g2g now, school
08:39 <joda_bot> I guess we settle for a time between 18:00 GMT - 21:00 GMT (weekend?) correct ?
08:40 <wrtlprnft> yes
08:40 <joda_bot> that's 1pm - 4pm CDT
08:40 <wrtlprnft> exactly :)
08:40 <joda_bot> ok ... fine
08:40 <wrtlprnft> please post it to the mbc forums so there's some time for people to say whether they can come
08:41  * wrtlprnft is really away now
08:50 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
09:11 <joda_bot> hi n54 
09:12 <n54> hi joda :)
09:15 <joda_bot> hm, lucifer is off :|
09:15 <joda_bot> => wiki is offline
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10:36 <joda_bot> wiki is back online ;)
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17:03 <joda_bot> z-man z-man-home: any chance you can extract the ip of a player on the vserver
17:03 <joda_bot> I can't access the screen session from the tron account
17:03 <joda_bot> Someone is imposting and I guess I've met this one before
17:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: do you have screen access for the vServer ?
17:18 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:25 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: nope
17:25 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got his IP ;)
17:26 <z-man-home> joda_bot: how?
17:26 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: first login name was Rudi
17:26 <joda_bot> from z-mans logs
17:26 <joda_bot> his home dir is free to read ;)
17:26 <z-man-home> They're readable?
17:26 <z-man-home> heh
17:27 <wrtlprnft> just figured that out
17:27 <z-man-home> how forward thinking of me
17:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:28 <joda_bot> :P
17:28 <joda_bot> z-man-home: I was about to try to find the screen pid file, and try to attach to a different users screen session
17:28 <joda_bot> not sure if that will work
17:29 <z-man-home> I think it wouldn't
17:29 <joda_bot> afaik you have to tell screen to allow it ;)
17:29 <wrtlprnft> that would better not work or my server has a big security hole
17:29 <wrtlprnft> did you look at /proc/cpuinfo? impressive
17:30 <wrtlprnft> and 6G of ram aren't unimpressive either ;)
17:30 <wrtlprnft> assuming those are the real specs and not messed up by the virtual machine
17:30 <z-man-home> well, that's the host's specs, I think
17:32 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: well, i only see that IP logging in and out...
17:33 <z-man-home> Rudi's IP is again totally different from any other moron's IP I've seen, different subnet
17:33 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: can I have 6 GB RAM?
17:34 <z-man-home> Sure, make a big swapfile
17:34 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:34 <joda_bot> z-man-home: wrtlprnft: did he really log out right afterwards ?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no, that vserver seems to have 5g ram :)
17:34 <Luke-Jr> already have that
17:34 <Luke-Jr> OS: GNU/Linux 2.6.14-gentoo-r2-ljr/x86_64 - CPU: 1 x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (2202.889 MHz) - Processes: 350 - Uptime: 43d 19h 55m - Users: 95 - Load Average: 2.43 - Memory Usage: 3518MB/1003MB (350%)
17:34 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: nvm, i see now... comes later
17:34 <Luke-Jr> 2.5 GB of swap used
17:34 <wrtlprnft> 6G ram and 8G swap
17:35 <Luke-Jr> who needs swap w/ 6 GB RAM?
17:35 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: WTF are you running on your machine? Is this just one huge tmpfs?
17:35 <wrtlprnft> well, 2mb of it are used
17:35 <wrtlprnft> and 4CPUs are nice too
17:35 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: you have access; ps uax =p
17:35 <Luke-Jr> my tmpfs is 90 MB
17:36  * z-man-home can't be bothered
17:36 <z-man-home> :)
17:36 <Luke-Jr> want me to paste it here? lol
17:36 <z-man-home> err, no
17:36 <z-man-home> I'm not really that interested, actually ;)
17:36 <Luke-Jr> KDE, I guess
17:37 <Luke-Jr> something like 10-15 Konsoles, similar w/ Konqueror
17:37 <Luke-Jr> things like that
17:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah. and some kagregator is using up your CPU
17:37 <Luke-Jr> oh, right
17:37 <Luke-Jr> I hate Akregator
17:37 <wrtlprnft> and tons of /usr/bin/bash
17:37 <wrtlprnft> err, /bin/bash
17:37 <Luke-Jr> Know a good RSS thing?
17:37 <Luke-Jr> one that doesn't eat RAM and CPU?
17:37 <joda_bot> z-man-home: is there a vserver admin pw ?
17:37 <wrtlprnft> doesn't exist i guess
17:37 <Luke-Jr> RSS sucks anyway
17:38 <wrtlprnft> everything needs RAM and CPU
17:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: I'm in a mood to find Rudi and ban him ;)
17:38 <Luke-Jr> news should be pushed, not pulled
17:38 <z-man-home> Yes, but I'm not posting it on IRC
17:38 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's mailing lists
17:38 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: you know what I mean
17:38 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: yes, but something in a standard format for aggregation and such
17:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: can u put it into a text file... ah wait where are the autoexec.cfg for the tron server ;)
17:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I use opera anyways, so i use the rss reader it has as a bonus :D
17:39 <z-man-home> can't you just put a ssh key on the tron user account?
17:40 <joda_bot> generated the key but can't append it ;)
17:40 <joda_bot> your right are not that generous ;)
17:41 <z-man-home> heheh
17:41 <wrtlprnft> warning, i just put mine there, don't add that unless you want to give me access
17:41 <z-man-home> I may be dumb, but not stupid
17:41 <z-man-home> np
17:41 <wrtlprnft> the one ending in mathias@laptop is mine
17:42 <Luke-Jr> what are you all talking about anyway?
17:42 <Luke-Jr> I just heard 6 GB RAM =p
17:43 <z-man-home> Done, you can now both also login as z-man
17:43 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:43 <z-man-home> and run "screen -RR" from there
17:43 <joda_bot> z-man-home: are you sure there is admin pw ?
17:43 <z-man-home> Oh, that admin pw
17:43 <z-man-home> no, there isn't one
17:44 <joda_bot> there is none in the var autoexec.cfg and none in the /etc/armagetronad-dedicated7 ...
17:44 <joda_bot> *sigh*
17:44 <Luke-Jr> z-man: wouldn't -rx work better? =p
17:44 <z-man-home> I thought you meant the ROOT pw
17:44 <joda_bot> ah no ;)
17:44 <joda_bot> I just wanted to get ban / kick rights ;)
17:44 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:46 <z-man-home> K, now there is an ADMIN_PASS
17:46 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: wtf are you talking about?
17:47 <Luke-Jr> z-man: screen -rx
17:47 <z-man-home> why? -RR always works fine for me :)
17:47 <Luke-Jr> what are *you* talking about? =p
17:47 <Luke-Jr> -RR appears it wouldn't work well w/ multiple screen sessions
17:47 <z-man-home> The vserver test
17:47 <Luke-Jr> vserver test?
17:48 <z-man-home> -RR opens the first it can get
17:48 <Luke-Jr> I noticed
17:48 <z-man-home> yes, I "rented" a zero cost vserver for three days
17:48 <Luke-Jr> O.o
17:48 <z-man-home> It's on the developer's only section in the forum
17:48  * Luke-Jr wonders what the point is?
17:48 <Luke-Jr> ok
17:48 <z-man-home> the access data, I mean
17:48 <z-man-home> To test whether a vserver has enough power as a game server
17:49 <z-man-home> so we can tell aspiring server admins "yes, a vserver is enough"
17:49 <z-man-home> or not :)
17:49 <Luke-Jr> what is a 'vserver'?
17:50 <Luke-Jr> just UML?
17:50 <z-man-home> A virtual server
17:50 <z-man-home> no, a server machine
17:50 <z-man-home> but not a real one, it's emulated in a virtual machine on some BIG box
17:50 <Luke-Jr> so... uml
17:50 <z-man-home> what's UML? beside universal markup stuff :)
17:51 <Luke-Jr> User Mode Linux
17:51 <z-man-home> yes, something like that
17:51 <z-man-home> but actually, I think XEN is used
17:51 <Luke-Jr> Linux that  runs as a usermode process'
17:51 <Luke-Jr> o
17:51 <z-man-home> as a basis
17:51 <Luke-Jr> so why *wouldn't* it work?
17:51 <z-man-home> The actual software is called "Virtuozzo"
17:51 <z-man-home> Because it may not have enough CPU power
17:52 <z-man-home> Or memory
17:52 <z-man-home> Or restrictions for software you can install imposed by the hoster
17:53 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: ack, i forgot a letter in my key
17:53 <Luke-Jr> software restrictions kinda defeat the point of a vserver
17:53 <wrtlprnft> it would need to say "ssh-rsa", not "sh-rsa" to work
17:54 <Luke-Jr> ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAACBALDS9qOvIO8pj2i3Q7ozRw+yjm5gz3GcDHbNowEQ42P74QCoBMzGeGh418mwivvhMGsmQne8E5XsK3FJQnY/ymv4mmV0rpgCAVdUTJR5SwycEGdr81nRS1Q70X93Q5TNKZUrg4t5K5OWZYJDn6qRm82RNSOp6o8GZVdgI9G1MCLRAAAAFQDIkyXr2kflmOrqutaoNeR35J3JFwAAAIA4J70r4Vj6keuOHk/CesYt7tHCoIxM6fghPrc8WNRrefhAbE9Vpso9TxyTvgPL8eari+jPAA0BW0B42TvzEnDP0plrmMnGkn+bEw7VNfAkV61bgXKNb12WY9kXXyXJid9085ibG+hvzG1ENp19MfJgL/DBBeMztTXoD3YBAwNnzAAAAIB9TVk7yGtzzX/5QH8n
17:54 <Luke-Jr> BkK728JilX6l+ybNWMZ81xcenhO/GtfpbLeNlBgaNmuEiXiNODsxa0VKJj5Av94GKcQ0FddwGmU2yhfFo9N+afa9TkE/Bqg8BU4riFoqo6OVuWegTsI+o1RU0Xpt/hxXS3UK0e6vLQWu+vZyEe9NDOgz5A== luke-jr@arumekun
17:54 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: thanks :)
17:56 <z-man-home> Luke-Jr: wait, how do I know you're really Luke-Jr?
17:57  * z-man-home is slightly paranoid
17:57 <z-man-home> Use the access data from the forum to login as tron, you should be able to ssh to z-man@localhost then if you want access to the running server
17:57 <wrtlprnft> good point ;)
17:58 <wrtlprnft> well, then you could as well totally get rid of the tron account somehow ;)
17:58 <z-man-home> Yeah, I probably could
17:59 <z-man-home> but I wrote down the password to the other one on a piece of paper I can't find
17:59 <z-man-home>  :)
17:59 <z-man-home> And the server will probably get shut down in a few hours, so I won't bother. It's yours now :)
18:00 <joda_bot> hm ?
18:00 <z-man-home> Well, the transatlantic people may have a thing or two to test
18:01 <Luke-Jr> heh, anyone think it might be worth asking them to do a deal: we get a vserver for the project, and we recommend them for hosting? ;)
18:02 <Luke-Jr> so who's running the server in screen?
18:02 <z-man-home> Not me
18:02 <z-man-home> you can steal it with -RR -D :)
18:02 <Luke-Jr> not really
18:03 <Luke-Jr> -RR makes a new session
18:03 <Luke-Jr> had to do -Rx for that
18:03 <z-man-home> and "screen -RR -D" just got me the server process. I have it now, bwahahaha!
18:04 <z-man-home> hmm, shall I kick wrtl?
18:04 <Luke-Jr> lol
18:04 <z-man-home> of course, you have to be user z-man, that's the one that is running the server
18:04 <z-man-home> hey
18:04 <z-man-home> screen sessions can be shared?
18:05 <Luke-Jr> with -x
18:05 <z-man-home> fun
18:06 <z-man-home> there, that was it
18:06 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
18:06 <z-man-home> server shutting down
18:07 <joda_bot> ...
18:07 <Luke-Jr> y
18:07 <joda_bot> lol someone restarted the system ;)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> wth just happened?
18:07 <z-man-home> yes, probably the admins.
18:07 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: yes, they can
18:07 <z-man-home> It was running for three days already
18:07 <wrtlprnft> use screen -x
18:07 <z-man-home> we already discussed that in screen :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:07 <Luke-Jr> heh, anyone think it might be worth asking them to do a deal: we get a vserver for the project, and we recommend them for hosting? ;)
18:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:08 <z-man-home> Aren't we already doing that with antix?
18:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:08 <z-man-home> microbus's son who owns the servers MBC is running on
18:08 <wrtlprnft> i know that
18:08 <wrtlprnft> but i thought that was only sp and mbc
18:08 <Luke-Jr> we are? o.o
18:09 <wrtlprnft> and there's donations for mbc as well to keep the server up
18:09 <z-man-home> well, we're not actually recommending their service, but they're mentioned somewhere in the docs
18:09 <Luke-Jr> do we get anything in exchange?
18:09 <z-man-home> a master server
18:09 <Luke-Jr> hm
18:09 <z-man-home> and the mention is just with the list of people who run master servers, nowhere prominent
18:10  * wrtlprnft never saw that list
18:10 <z-man-home> just in the included docs nobody reads anyway
18:10 <Luke-Jr> well, if someone will trade a project vserver (Svn, web, etc) for recommendation, that'd be better for us I think ;)
18:10 <wrtlprnft> i know luci has one, but that's about it
18:10 <wrtlprnft> i assume z-man-home has one, too
18:10 <wrtlprnft> abd there's 5 of them :D
18:10 <z-man-home> right
18:10 <z-man-home> four
18:10 <wrtlprnft> hmm
18:10 <wrtlprnft> the last one is luke's then?
18:10 <z-man-home> iF has the fourth
18:10 <wrtlprnft> ah
18:10 <Luke-Jr> I don't run one
18:11 <wrtlprnft> might have been, who knows
18:11  * z-man-home goes to bed
18:11 <wrtlprnft> night
18:11 <Luke-Jr> why?
18:12 <joda_bot> nixda.net runs on a 1&1 vserver AFAIK
18:12 <z-man-home> night
18:12 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, 1and1 is annoying
18:12  * joda_bot is admin .... hihi but no clue about the deals
18:12 <wrtlprnft>    Registrar: EPAG DOMAINSERVICES GMBH
18:12 <joda_bot> well I got an account and admin rights for the server ;)
18:12 <wrtlprnft> Person              : Thorsten Klee
18:13 <joda_bot> which is running on my account not root
18:13 <wrtlprnft> Person              : Webplus24 GmbH
18:13 <wrtlprnft> nice :)
18:13 <joda_bot> Thorsten is the real owner ;) but he has no time
18:13 <joda_bot> or interest anymore
18:14 <wrtlprnft> I'm thinking about a vserver, it would probably be stronger from network, CPU and RAM than my current machine, but I have no idea how i can live with 3GM storage
18:14 <wrtlprnft> su i guess I'll stay with my current setup
18:14 <wrtlprnft> maybe fix the RAM one day, those crashes and SSH errors are annoying
18:15 <joda_bot> hehe
18:15 <wrtlprnft> not hehe. always fun to phone my parents in the middle of the night to press the restart button
18:16 <wrtlprnft> and of course, since I'm no there I have no way to fix it
18:16 <wrtlprnft> *not
18:16 <Luke-Jr> BTW, ARP Proxy is nice
18:28 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: the chat on your site is somewhat disfunctional... i can only connect for a few seconds
18:28 <wrtlprnft> why not direct it to this channel? :D
18:33 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50873DE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: might be... there is noone around anyways
18:40 <joda_bot> and sylv setup the chat
18:40 <joda_bot> I'd rather use a java applet or some flash irc client if such a solution exists
18:42  * n54 is around, at least partly...
18:43 <wrtlprnft> just post a link to a real irc client :D
18:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 29 times.
18:44 <wrtlprnft> For example, like this: * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead
18:44 <wrtlprnft> is Lucifer a split personality then?
18:44 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft:  ?
18:45 <joda_bot> ah ok, you're reading tank's report site again ?
18:45 <wrtlprnft> yes
18:45 <wrtlprnft> it's fun once in a while :D
18:45 <n54> yeah :)
18:46 <wrtlprnft> and no wonder, ghab still has the shortest lines :D
18:46 <n54> :)
19:04 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: Java works [almost] anywhere
19:04 <Luke-Jr> though personally, I'd prefer moving most IRC within a MOO somewhere =p
19:14 <Luke-Jr> 4. Read-only rsync service
19:15 <joda_bot> gn8
19:15 <Luke-Jr> Our improved CVS service architecture, which we plan to deploy tomorrow afternoon (2006-05-12),
19:15 <Luke-Jr> bad timing, I'll be gone until Mon
19:15 <Luke-Jr> but once I get back, Svn shouldn't be long
19:15 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-097-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
19:19 <wrtlprnft> cya Luke-Jr 
19:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
19:33 <Lucifer_arma> k
19:33 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> how did the tests go?
19:34 <wrtlprnft> s/tests/exams/
19:37 <n54> yeah how did it go?
19:38 <Luke-Jr> he failed =p j/k
19:39 <wrtlprnft> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Remove_Gnome
19:39 <wrtlprnft> just found that... handy :)
19:40 <wrtlprnft> I still had some packages that occasionally updated for no reason... hope they're gone now
19:40  * wrtlprnft made the mistake to install and try GNOME and never really got rid of it
19:40 <wrtlprnft> first thing it did was mess up my kmenu
19:43 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: depclean should wrok, in theory
19:43  * Luke-Jr saved the contents of 'emerge -pv' beofre installing it ;)
19:51 <wrtlprnft> it wasn't just that
19:51 <wrtlprnft> i had some things like themes for gnome installed as well
19:53 <wrtlprnft> but for some reasons they weren't in my world file...
19:59  * n54 remembers he has forgotten to take his pills....
20:06 <n54> it seems lucifer went to sleep as soon as he logged on... ?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
20:15 <wrtlprnft> probably exhausting exams :)
20:15 <n54> :)
20:24 <wrtlprnft> test
20:24 <n54> test of what?
20:24 <wrtlprnft> (testing my new logsupload script... it's only supposed to update if arma is not running... gave me a lag bomb every 5 minutes
20:25 <n54> gah
20:25 <wrtlprnft> so i wrote something to see if it uploads it :)
20:25 <n54> :)
20:25 <wrtlprnft> ok, it does
20:28 <wrtlprnft> wow 15 people already entered my trap server that renames everyone to player 1 and sets their color to red :D
20:28 <n54> hehe
20:28 <wrtlprnft> one chat line:
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: watches me put my foot up admins ass.
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: say
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: hah
20:29 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: xxxxxxx
20:29 <wrtlprnft> i expected a bit more comments
20:29 <n54> so would I
20:30 <wrtlprnft> most people just entered and left. probably didn't even realize they were renamed
20:30 <wrtlprnft> but well, i guess they did on the next server they entered :D
20:30 <n54> it sticks?
20:30 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:30 <n54> ouch
20:30 <wrtlprnft> unless you rename yourself
20:31  * wrtlprnft remembers that he wanted to rename all the bots to Player 1
20:33 <wrtlprnft> s/unless/until
20:33 <wrtlprnft> it's nothing bad that happens... you just have to change your name to what it was before. Althogh it might be a pain for those people with lots of special chars and colors in their names
20:34 <n54> yeah, well I don't have that but I guess someone like supertard could be a bit peeved :)
20:35 <n54> not that I think he would be
20:35 <wrtlprnft> heh. be happy i don't reset all the instant chats to default
20:36 <wrtlprnft> I'm sure he has his name backuped somewhere
20:36 <n54> makes me wonder if the server should be able to do some of the stuff you're mentioning
20:36 <n54> as sticky I mean
20:37 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know. It will be fixed
20:37 <n54> becaue what you're doing is changing the user's files on their end right? otherwise how would it be sticky?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> that's a bug, although not a critical one
20:37 <n54> ok
20:37 <wrtlprnft> no, it just changes the settings
20:37 <n54> so if you restart the program all is back to usual?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> it's like you were to enter PLAYER_1 Player 1 on the console
20:38 <wrtlprnft> but since those are sticky items they get saved on exit
20:38 <wrtlprnft> it only works with a few, basically everything you can access from the menu
20:39 <wrtlprnft> the rest is either non-sticky or gets set by the server anyways
20:39 <n54> yeah i get it
20:39 <n54> it's bad imo :)
20:39 <wrtlprnft> i know it is, but not dangerous
20:40 <wrtlprnft> you can't write to any file directly
20:40 <n54> yup I got that
20:41 <wrtlprnft> although changing the old HUD configs could bake up for some confusion with noobs
20:41 <wrtlprnft> those are sticky, but they can't be accessed and reset using the menu
20:42 <n54> I'm all for the server being able to force options and settings for it's gameplay but I don't think it should have any sort of stickyness or even indirect manipulation of user files
20:43 <wrtlprnft> that's why it's a bug and going to be fixed with the next version. There's a thread in the dev forums about it
20:43 <n54> unless there were a folder dedicated to it (which might be needed)
20:43 <n54> yeah I know you told me, I'm not worried I'm just talking :D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:44 <n54> perhaps i come across as argumentative, it's not my intention, I'm jsut talking :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> it just looked to me like you thought it was a really serious issue
20:44 <wrtlprnft> the MAP_FILE and ../ one was serious
20:45 <n54> armagetron/ad is still a young program I don't except it to be "secure"
20:45 <wrtlprnft> not that young
20:46 <wrtlprnft> and, well, it should be secure enough to prevent someone else from installing spyware on your computer :D
20:46 <n54> the things I really worry about is stuff like this: http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/402
20:46 <n54> perhaps :)
20:47 <wrtlprnft> I'm pretty sure that arma has the possibility for a heap/stack overflow somewhere, but noone found it yet, so it's safe :)
20:47 <n54> lol that's a flawed definition of safe but ok ;)
20:48 <wrtlprnft> well, it would take a serious effort to find and exploit one, it's easier to just wait for the next bug in IE and use that :)
20:49 <wrtlprnft> so probably the first one to find the error will be one of the devs and i trust them not to use that against anyone and not make it public before it's fixed
20:50 <n54> noone sane would run armagetronad or similar on a truly safe system anyway, I don't worry about that
20:50 <wrtlprnft> there is no such thing as a truly safe system
20:51 <n54> you're right but read my link for reference :)
20:51 <wrtlprnft> I just always think that arma is so exotic that it isn't worth designing a mass exploit and I don't think that contents of my machines are so important for anyone that they would attack me personally
20:52 <wrtlprnft> which would be a considerable amount of work and i'd probably notice it before it succeeds
20:52 <n54> I think those are flawed arguments but it's not really anything to discuss, you do as you please
20:53 <n54> and I don't mean that in any kind of bad way
20:53 <wrtlprnft> and, someone who would attack someone using arma, why would he attack me?
20:54 <wrtlprnft> *if
20:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, well, and for an attacker on this machine who would get rights on my user account there would be no use in exploiting a bug in X11 to gain root rights
20:57 <wrtlprnft> they could just log what i type and wait for me to enter my root password
20:58 <n54> the point of the article is ring0 not X itself, that's just an example (and primarily just one for what kinds of things that I think are worrying security-wise)
20:58 <wrtlprnft> and a server isn't supposed to run X11 anyways. And there's stuff like SELINUX
20:58 <wrtlprnft> there you can run apache and whatever as a normal user and just give them the special rights they need
20:59 <n54> I think you misunderstand
20:59 <wrtlprnft> so apache would gain the right to open port 80 and write to its logs, but nothing more
20:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, guess so
21:00 <n54> no worries :)
21:09 <Lucifer_arma> got a 98 on the paper I turned in late
21:09 <n54> wow
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> he wrote a comment at the end "most americans would probably disagree"  :)
21:10 <wrtlprnft> nice
21:10 <n54> was this the space one?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that one
21:11 <wrtlprnft> i found sometimes it's a good idea to write something the teacher doesn't expect, although it depends on the teacher
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> so I have a 90.9% in that class right now, and I'm pretty sure I got an A on the final.  Hmm, time to play what-if
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I can get as low as a 77 on the final and still get an A in the class, so that's done.  :)
21:14 <wrtlprnft> what's the border for A? 85%?
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> not sure about my calc class.  I might have pulled off an A, I might have slid to a B :(
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> 90%
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, 89.5%, since it rounds up to a 90
21:14 <wrtlprnft> is the exam worth so few?
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> um, it's more like my other grades are high
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> there's 5 grades total, with the lowest grade dropped, which he normally doesn't do
21:15 <Lucifer_arma> they're averaged together.  4 are tests, 1 is the paper.
21:15 <wrtlprnft> but if you're at 90.9% now...
21:16 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
21:16 <Lucifer_arma> so basically, if the last test was really bad, then it'll be dropped, and my average is the 90.9 I have now.  Or I did something wrong, likely.  :)
21:16 <wrtlprnft> that means all you did until now, just excluding the exam, right?
21:16 <wrtlprnft> oh, it'll be dropped, ok
21:16 <wrtlprnft> then it makes sense
21:16 <wrtlprnft> 1.4% didn't seem like a lot of room for me ;)
21:17 <n54> what class was this btw?
21:17 <n54> history?
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> this was History 2
21:17 <n54> ok
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> #g 89.5*4
21:17 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 89.5 * 4 = 358
21:17 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A16D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:17 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358/4
21:17 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 / 4 = 89.5
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0)/3
21:18 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0) / 3 = 93.6
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 + 82.6)/4
21:18 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 + 82.6) / 4 = 90.85
21:18 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that one's my current average that doesn't include the final.
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> Basically, if this last test is worse than any test I've taken now, it gets dropped.  If it's better, my average only goes up.  So I've got an A
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> #g (87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0)
21:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 87.4 + 95.4 + 98.0 = 280.8
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> #g 280.8 - 358
21:19 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 280.8 - 358 = -77.2
21:19 <Lucifer_arma> er
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358-280.8
21:20 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 - 280.8 = 77.2
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that's the minimum score on the final that I need to get an A.
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> Since that is lower than my lowest test score otherwise, it doesn't matter, does it?  :)
21:20 <n54> guess not :)
21:21 <wrtlprnft> guess so...
21:22  * n54 hopes guru3 isn't crushed by his exams either
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> #g 358 - 100 - 90
21:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 358 - 100 - 90 = 168
21:23 <       Lucifer_arma> That's how many points I need in my government class to get an A, and that's divided amongst 3 scores
21:23 <       Lucifer_arma> #g 168 / 3
21:23 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: 168 / 3 = 56
21:23 <       Lucifer_arma> problem is, those three scores he hasn't bothered to tell us.  One is a paper, one is "participation" based on attendance/actual participation, and the third is a test
21:24 <       Lucifer_arma> hm
21:24 <       Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5)
21:24 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: 5 * 89.5 = 447.5
21:24 <       n54> probably because he wants you to do your best each time ;)
21:24 <       Lucifer_arma> ah, much more reasonable.  I thought that was something off.  Ok...
21:24 <       Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190
21:24 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 = 257.5
21:24 <       Lucifer_arma> #g 257.5/3
21:24 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: 257.5 / 3 = 85.8333333
21:25 <       Lucifer_arma> So I need an 85.8 average on remaining classwork.  The thing that irks me is that I shouldn't have to guess at so many loose points when the semester's over.
21:25 <       Lucifer_arma> The fucker slacked on grading the papers and our last test, so I had to take the optional final because I had no way to know what my grade was.
21:26 <       Lucifer_arma> So there's 4 grades hanging loose, and one of them will be dropped.  Anyway, I can't keep my mouth shut about politics, so it's probably a given I got an A for participation.
21:26 <       Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95
21:26 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 = 162.5
21:26 <       Lucifer_arma> #g 162.5/2
21:26 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: 162.5 / 2 = 81.25
21:27 <       Lucifer_arma> My paper was perfect, except it was boring.  but it was spell-checked, good grammar, etc.  It was technically perfect, the only way he could *not* give it an A is because it's boring.
21:27 <       Lucifer_arma> #g (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 - 90
21:27 <       armabot> Lucifer_arma: (5 * 89.5) - 190 - 95 - 90 = 72.5
21:27 *       )) Lucifer_armaSo I need somewhere around a low C on the leftover test, provided my assumptions hold out.  But really, I just can't imagine *not* getting an A on a paper.  :)
21:28 *       )) Lucifer_armaok, now the painful one.
21:28 Lucifer_a)) #g 95 + 87 + 88 + 94
21:28   armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 95 + 87 + 88 + 94 = 364
21:28 Lucifer_a)) #g 89.5 * 5
21:28   armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 89.5 * 5 = 447.5
21:29 Lucifer_a)) #g 447.5 - 364
21:29   armabot)) Lucifer_arma: 447.5 - 364 = 83.5
21:29 Lucifer_a)) So to get an A for my test average in calculus, I needed an 83.5 on the final, which I almost certainly got.
21:29 Lucifer_a)) Now here's the catch.  That's 90% of the grade.  The other 10% is homework.
21:30 Lucifer_a)) He hasn't handed it all back yet, mostly because we turned in the last group of homework today.  I can't see what I turned in affecting my homework average at all, though.
21:31 Lucifer_a)) ok, call it somewhere around 30% to be really conservative.
21:31           )) Lucifer_armadepends entirely on how generous he was over late homework.
21:32           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * (95 + 87 + 88 + 94) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * (95 + 87 + 88 + 94)) + (0.1 * 30) = 330.6
21:32           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94)/4 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94) / 4)) + (0.1 * 30) = 84.9
21:32           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 90)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 90) / 5)) + (0.1 * 30) = 84.72
21:32           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 30)
21:32           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 30) = 86.52
21:33           )) Lucifer_armait may not have even been possible for me to pull off an A.  :(
21:33           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 88.52
21:33           )) Lucifer_arma#g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:33           )) armabotLucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 88 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 91.02
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 100)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33      armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 100) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 89.24
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 50)
21:33      armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87) / 5)) + (0.1 * 50) = 86.9
21:33 Lucifer_arma)) #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:33      armabot)) Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 87) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.4
21:34 Lucifer_arma)) I think around a 75 is probably more realistic for my homework average, but I might get a B.  :(  That sucks.
21:34 *Lucifer_arma)) stops spamming with grade calculations
21:36    wrtlprnft)) no, that's fine with me, I'm testing IRC themes and can use that
21:36 Lucifer_arma)) heh, really, I'm done.  This guy's good about getting tests graded and final averages computed, and I just emailed him, so I"ll have the information pretty quickly.
21:37 Lucifer_arma)) which reminds me, I need to email my government teacher to nag.  I *know* I've got 2 A's so far, but there's still 2 classes I'm waiting to find out about.
21:39 )) So, I need to get at least a 75% on my homework average, which isn't guaranteed right now.  Then I need to et all my corrections points for the third test, which I turned in today.
21:39  *THen*, even an 87 on the final isn't enough.
21:39  #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 89)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:39  Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 89) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.76
21:39  #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 75)
21:39  okok, not I can't see any nicks
21:39  Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 75) = 89.58
21:40  ok, after those two assumptions, I can get an 88 on the final and get an A.  It's pretty tight, so many things left.  He'll probably email me with an 86 or something.
21:40  maybe he'll suddenly decides he likes me a lot and wiggle the numbers some in my favor.  Not likely, though.  He's not that kind of teacher.  :)
21:41 <>problem is, change any of the two assumptions and my grade plummets.  Plummets, I say!
21:42 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:42 <>cya guys
21:42 <>later
21:42 <>uh, guess so... no idea who said that
21:43 <>what a mess
21:43 <>that was SD|away 
21:43 <>ah ok
21:43 <>feels like being in the dark
21:49 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:49 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.08
21:49  * n54 turns on the light
21:49 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 )
21:49 <> Lucifer_arma: 0.9 * ((95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5) = 82.08
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+88)/2 + 92 + 94 + 88)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 88) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 88) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.17
21:51 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+90)/2 + 92 + 94 + 90)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 90) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 90) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 88.71
21:51 <> #g 0.9 * ( (95 + (87+94)/2 + 92 + 94 + 94)/5 ) + 0.1 * ( 60)
21:51 <> Lucifer_arma: (0.9 * ((95 + ((87 + 94) / 2) + 92 + 94 + 94) / 5)) + (0.1 * 60) = 89.79
21:52 <> haha
21:52 <> this is an optimization problem.  I should work it out on paper, then I can model it properly.  :)
21:53 <> test
21:53 <> where did the nicks go?...
21:53 <> brb
--- Log closed Thu May 11 21:53:45 2006
--- Log opened Thu May 11 21:54:01 2006
21:54 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:54 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:54 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
21:54 <> guess not...
21:58 <     wrtlprnft> #echo test
21:58 <     armabot> test
21:58 <     wrtlprnft> looks like this works again, somehow
22:03 <wrtlprnft> #echo test
22:03 <armabot> test

Log from 2006-05-12:
--- Day changed Fri May 12 2006
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00:38 <n54> cya all
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03:13 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: The IRC chat is functional on nixda.net ?
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> he's asleep
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> I can't speak for my team at the moment, but personally I have no problems if you guys respawn in our place.  :)
03:24 -!- Nixda434 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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03:25 <Nixda362> test
03:25 <Nixda434> test
03:26 -!- Nixda612 [n=543d61cd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> testing, 1, 2, 3, testing
03:26 -!- blubs [n=543db226@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
03:26 <Nixda612> :)
03:26 <Nixda612> Using http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi to login ;)
03:26  * Nixda612 joda's PC Firefox web browser
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03:27 <Nixda362> 2
03:27 <Nixda612> 3
03:27 <Nixda024> 4
03:27 <Nixda224> 5
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> hello there, I'm a talking parrot
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> this is kinda neat, joda
03:28 <joda_bot> :)
03:28 <LuciEatsPeople> LuciEatsPeople: does this highlight?
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> LuciEatsPeople: does this?
03:28 <joda_bot> Not my work, just decided to change the channel to free node to see if it works
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting nasty latency, though.  It still says "Transferring data from..."
03:29 <joda_bot> freenode is very generous with the number of connections from one IP
03:29 <joda_bot> not sure might be the bot protection kicked in
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> there are a lot of Nixda's on
03:30 <joda_bot> All mine ;)
03:30 <joda_bot> so I guess they all got disconnected or silenced
03:31 <joda_bot> ok, irc.freenode.org resolves to multiple servers ;)
03:31 <joda_bot> that's why it might have taken more sessions to kick in
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> no, I think your bot protection hypothesis is probably right
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, you're right about irc.freenode.org resolving to multiple servers, too, but it's probably bot protection that's kicked in
03:32 <joda_bot> hehe, or the cgi script got a time limit like php ;)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  Are your Nixda's responding?
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Welcome to CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Looking up irc.freenode.net
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Connecting to irc.freenode.net [] port 6666
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname, welcome back
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** Checking ident
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> it could just be bandwidth-across-the-pond problems, I have those on a lot of european webservers
03:33 <joda_bot> -irc.freenode.net- *** No identd (auth) response
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Nickname Nixda434 is already in use, type /nick newnick to use another.
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Closing Link (Connection Timed Out)
03:33 <joda_bot> *** Disconnected from IRC (type /reconnect to connect again)
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03:33 <Nixda435> hm ok...
03:33 <Nixda435> let's see when this timeouts
03:34 <joda_bot> test
03:34 <joda_bot> ok, now it's pretty fast and live
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03:35 <zmaniac> really neat
03:35 <joda_bot> :)
03:35 <Nixda435> ok, up to now ... he's still here
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03:35 <Nixda435> 1
03:36 <joda_bot> about two minutes ...
03:36 <joda_bot> I wrote 2 but it did not get through
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  I closed the tab for LuciEatsPeople because it wasn't responding to my other clicks anymore.  Can you boot him somehow from your end?
03:36 <joda_bot> perhaps it's 2:30 cgi script time
03:36 <joda_bot> good question
03:37 <Nixda434> 1
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03:38 <joda_bot> guess they just timeout
03:38 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=3ff6b1e9@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> that's what it looks like
03:38 <joda_bot> the perl scripts were still running
03:38 <joda_bot> without their apache session
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's also the cgi script doing the timing out, not freenode
03:39 <joda_bot> yeah, it's the apache killing the cgi
03:39 <joda_bot> the perl script that is called by the cgi was still running
03:39 <joda_bot> that's why they did not exist right away
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03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 1
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 2
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 3
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 4
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 5
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> 6
03:40 <LuciEatsPeople> seems to be working ok now.  I wonder if maybe it was just overloaded?  :)
03:40 <joda_bot> just wait 2min before u start to count ;)
03:40 <joda_bot> no
03:40 <joda_bot> guess not
03:41 <joda_bot> just checking http://cvs.cgiirc.org/wiki?p=FrequentlyAskedQuestions
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, lost it now
03:42 <joda_bot> that was a short time ?
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> very short
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> lost it right before your "guess not" line, not even a minute there
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> I just hit the close button, I'm gonna just let it go and leave the tab open and see what happens
03:45 <Nixda435> 2
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03:47 <Lucifer_arma> aha, there's a javscript error
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> can't copy it from the javascript console, though.  :(
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Error: xmlhttp is not defined
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Source File: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=mozilla&nick=LuciEatsPeople&R=vxevcl2ye&item=fwindowlist&style=mirc
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> Line: 467
03:49 <joda_bot> I'll try to upgrade the scripts
03:49 <joda_bot> sec
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04:14 <Nixda681> ok
04:14 <Nixda681> let's see
04:14 <Nixda681> this stype is not really good ;)
04:15 <Nixda681> test
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04:16 <Nixda362> test 2
04:17 <joda_bot> Ok, this another response test
04:17 <Nixda362> I'm here
04:17 <Nixda681> I'm here too
04:17 <joda_bot> looks like it works now
04:27 <joda_bot> anohter test
04:27 <joda_bot> works
04:27 <joda_bot> fine
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04:39 <joda_bot> test
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05:44 <joda_bot> test
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06:04 <Nixda891> rwar
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06:18 -!- Nixda720 is now known as namechange
06:18 -!- namechange is now known as name
06:18 -!- name is now known as changedname
06:21 <changedname> armabot: test
06:21 <armabot> blah
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07:28 <joda_web> test message
07:28 <joda_web> argh still white ;)
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07:45 <wrtlprnft> joda_nixda: doesn't work for me... probably doesn't support opera :(
07:45 <joda_nixda> ah, what does it say ?
07:45 <joda_nixda> probably just have to hack the user agent detection
07:46 <joda_nixda> wrtlprnft: you need java script though
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07:55 <wrtlprnft> I have js on, of course. It connects me, but disconnects me before i can say anything
07:55 <joda_web> hmmmmm
07:56 <joda_bot> What's the user agent it sends ?
07:56 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft:  ?
07:56 <wrtlprnft> g2g, back in a few minutes from school
07:57 <wrtlprnft> [HTTP_USER_AGENT] => Opera/9.00 (X11; Linux i686; U; en)
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10:32 <wrtl_web> test
10:32 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i can send messages now, it seems
10:32 <wrtlprnft> but i don't see the replies ;)
10:34 <wrtl_web> either it still doesn't like opera, or it doesn't like my hackish php script that allows me to see this site at all (it's blocked from school)
10:37 -!- wrtl_links2 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
10:38 <wrtl_links2> wow, it works with links2?
10:38 <wrtlprnft> test
10:38 <wrtl_web> test
10:39  * wrtlprnft quits spamming
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11:07 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: yes
11:08 <philippeqc> hi
11:14 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: I guess the problem with opera is the detection
11:14 <joda_bo1> it uses something like window.opera on the login screen to determine the browser
11:14 <joda_bo1> Can you try to manually pass it the browser type and see if it works then
11:14 <joda_bo1> ?
11:15  * joda_bo1 wonders why it's not the same for javascript and non javascript browsers ;)
11:30 -!- joda_opera [n=543d41d9@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:31 <joda_opera> hi
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11:34 <mkzelda> hi
11:35 <philippeqc> hi
11:35  * joda_opera test
11:35  * mkzelda test
11:36 <joda_bo1> mkzelda: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi
11:36 <joda_bo1> ;)
11:36 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as joda_bot
11:40 -!- mkz3lda [n=41be9b88@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:40  * mkz3lda test
11:41 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: I'll try when i'm at home
11:41 <wrtlprnft> opera can cloak itself :)
11:43 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: whatever you did both versions worked for me ... "opera7" support with channel frame, and "opera" (guess it's pre 7) with a single window for server messages and chat
11:44 <wrtlprnft> opera 7? that's stone age ;)
11:44 <wrtlprnft> current the current version is 8.0 and 9 is a beta version
11:46 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=opera&submit=Login&Nickname=opera_test
11:46 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi?interface=opera7&submit=Login&Nickname=opera_test
11:46 <wrtlprnft> weird typing... very laggy for me right now, sorry
11:46 <wrtlprnft> I can't really test it from here
11:47 <wrtlprnft> that site is blocked as web site hosting and if I use some detour i can't be sure if it's just the script i use for that
11:52 <mkz3lda> works fine for me
11:53 <joda_bot> :)
11:53 <joda_bot> I'll talk to tank to add this app to armagetronad.net ;)
11:54 <joda_bot> guru3: how about that for armagetronad.net ? http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi
11:55 -!- Nixda211 [n=51e7e65f@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:55 <Nixda211> well
11:55 <Nixda211> the issue is
11:55 <Nixda211> that i don't have cgi enabled on my server
11:55 <Nixda211> ;)
11:55 -!- Nixda211 [n=51e7e65f@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
11:55 <joda_bot> :)
11:55 <guru3> but it is cool
11:56 <joda_bot> guru3: me neither ... just used .htaccess to enable it
11:57 <guru3> no i mean it's well disabled
11:57 <guru3> everything in apache2.conf that has to do with it
11:57 <guru3> is commented out
11:58 <wrtlprnft> why not just link to it?
11:58 <guru3> good question
11:59 <joda_opera> guru3: I'm happy to provide a back link too...
11:59 <guru3> you can't really avoid a backlink you know ;)
11:59 <joda_opera> This also might help to direct german people to nixda and english to armagetronad.net (for forums?)
12:00 <guru3> yeah
12:00 <joda_opera> ... and nixda will get a new forum ... sometime in june (I hope)
12:00 <guru3> http://armagetronad.net/links.php
12:00 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong witn that one?
12:00 <guru3> you're there under server sites at least :
12:00 <guru3> :0
12:00 <joda_opera> nothing wrong with it ;)
12:01 <joda_opera> Nixda only has die-hard forum users right now ... because it's too messed up
12:01 <joda_opera> but I'm slowy rebuilding it with a few other admins, though it's my iniative otherwise it would have gone
12:01 <guru3> it is neat
12:02 <wrtlprnft> well, i have to admit that I don't read or post on it because there's forums.armagetronad.net and there's more activity ;)
12:02 <joda_opera> yes, and that won't change I hope
12:03 <joda_opera> As armagetronad.net aims for devs, pros and english ppl - I try to get noobs and germans for nixda ;)
12:03 <joda_opera> which can later be upgraded or migrated to armagetronad ;)
12:03 <wrtlprnft> I also have to admit that being in canada for two thirds of a year now I feel more comfortable writing english than germen ;)
12:03 <joda_opera> How did you end up in canada anyway ?
12:03 <wrtlprnft> international student
12:04 <joda_opera> of ?
12:04 <wrtlprnft> which means that I'll be back home in two months
12:04 <joda_opera> ah ok, so it's just a student exchange semester / year ?
12:04 <joda_opera> lol, been using the web part without noticing
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12:05 <guru3> lol
12:06 <wrtlprnft> Austauyes it is
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12:06 <wrtlprnft> ?
12:06 <wrtlprnft> *yes it is
12:06 <wrtlprnft> that connection sucks
12:06 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: ?
12:07 <wrtlprnft> g2g school
12:08 <philippeqc> see ya
12:08 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: i'm on a ssh connection from school to mz computer at home
12:17 <philippeqc> Wow, its the second time this week I manage to fix a C++ (really big) problem all by myself, without needing external help!
12:17 <philippeqc> I must be doing something right
12:51 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: can't wait to see what you've got ;)
12:51 <wrtlprnft> but take your time, i don't want to push you in any way
12:52 <philippeqc> well frankly, I've moved my development out of the code. ie: it goes faster to debug it, and as I work on the tip of my understanding of C++, that really helps. But I actually manage quite ok
12:53 <philippeqc> Now I'm still doing the Sets operations (Union, intersection, Difference) for the Col.
12:53 <wrtlprnft> so you made your own project? Well, would be too much work for me
12:53 <philippeqc> Col being a Base that hold a deque
12:53 <philippeqc> s/project/file
12:54 <wrtlprnft> ah ok. Whatever you like :)
12:54 <philippeqc> I'm still playing with the extention of tValue::Base
12:54 <philippeqc> once that is fixed, the rest will be much easier
12:55 <philippeqc> the position of a zone will be a cValue, so basic motion will be quite easy to fix
12:55 <wrtlprnft> still have to do that formula parser...
12:55 <wrtlprnft> kinda hard since I've got no idea where to start
12:56 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to split the forumula up into all its values and operators and then somehow order them to respect brackets and operator order
12:56 <philippeqc> it will come to you
12:56  * wrtlprnft hoes it will do so soon ;)
12:56 <wrtlprnft> *hopes
12:57 <philippeqc> yeah, but you still have some time. I'm not going as fast as I'd like ;)
12:58 <wrtlprnft> SF cvs is still down...
12:58 <wrtlprnft> and it is the end of the week, at least in germany
12:58 <philippeqc> ouch
12:58 <wrtlprnft> ouch?
12:58 <philippeqc> I havent been in need of it for a while, so I didnt notice
12:58 <philippeqc> ouch = pain expression in french
12:58 <wrtlprnft> oh. heh, it is down and annoying
12:59 <philippeqc> yes
12:59 <wrtlprnft> because if i commit my stuff once it's back up i don't know exactly what i did anymore
12:59 <wrtlprnft> so i can't easily write a good log entry
13:01 <philippeqc> lol
13:01 <philippeqc> better start reading your code now
13:01 <wrtlprnft> try doxygen ;)
13:01 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy
13:02 <wrtlprnft> should be reasonably up- to- date
13:02 <wrtlprnft> looks like the clock on my server is going 3s/day slower than the clock on my laptop...
13:02 <wrtlprnft> well, -300ms lag
13:03 <philippeqc> it is now in my bookmarks
13:03 <wrtlprnft> :)
13:03 <philippeqc> i should REALLY start to write some comments
13:03 <philippeqc> for my part
13:03 <wrtlprnft> you can just type make doxy if you want tyo have it locally ;)
13:04 <wrtlprnft> it gets generated in src/doc/doxygen/html;
13:05 <wrtlprnft> (ignore extra chars like ; and y, they get generated by tghis keyboardand that slow ssh connection)
13:05 <wrtlprnft> can't see my errors easily
13:05 <philippeqc> ok
13:06 <philippeqc> grrr, while does my child refuse to see the members of its parent
13:06 <wrtlprnft> happy family?
13:07 <philippeqc> lol
13:07 <philippeqc> I'll make them
13:08 <wrtlprnft> if you use template derivation it looks like you need to type Base<templateparams>::member
13:08 <wrtlprnft> no idea why, usually you should just be able to write the name of the member
13:08  * philippeqc slaps his forehead
13:09 <wrtlprnft> g2g again, have fun raising your family ;)
13:09 <philippeqc> lol I'll do
13:10 <philippeqc> thanks again
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13:23 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:36 -!- guru3_ [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
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14:03 -!- guru3_ is now known as guru3
14:10 <z-man-home> hooray, SF cvs is back!
14:10 <z-man-home> and it now allows rsync mirroring.
14:13 <n54> yay :)
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I don't.  :)
14:54 <z-man-home> Looks like SF didn't manage to mangle our repository
15:09 <Lucifer_arma> that's good news
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=31070&group_id=1
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> looks like subversion is available for all projects now
15:18 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:20 -!- joda_friends [n=577bae68@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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15:37 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
15:40 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
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15:56 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:06 <wrtlprnft> guess i have to make a new checkout now?
16:09 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [",,,,"]
16:14 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co -P armagetronad
16:14 <wrtlprnft> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:14 <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:21 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
16:21 -!- Nixda828 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:21 <Nixda828> test
16:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtl_web: does that mean the repository doesn't exist at all anymore?
16:21 <Nixda828> now it works :)
16:22 <wrtlprnft> uh, i guess it still does, probably i'm doing something wrong
16:22 <Nixda828> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=110997
16:22 <Self_Destructo> umm, what time is the game?
16:22 <Nixda828> I'm doing exactly what that size says
16:22 <wrtlprnft> and that doesn't work
16:22 <wrtlprnft> it's tomorrow, 1PM -4PM CDT
16:22 <Nixda828> not exactly specified yet
16:22 <Self_Destructo> can't, sorry
16:22 <Nixda828> :(
16:23 <Nixda828> joda_bot: It's working fine now with opera, thanks :)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> it's moved, the path is different
16:23 <wrtlprnft> what is it then?
16:23 <wrtlprnft> i thought it was just the hostname, and their site says si
16:23 <wrtlprnft> *so
16:23 <wrtlprnft> Nixda828: test
16:24 <Nixda828> ah, nice, it gets hilighted
16:24 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec, why is wrtl_web still there?
16:25 <wrtlprnft> i closed that browser window about 3 hours ago
16:25 <wrtlprnft> and the computer i used is shut down now
16:26 -!- Nixda828 [n=184df7fd@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["i was just testing anyways"]
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/docs/E04/#top
16:33 <wrtlprnft> which is exactly what i did
16:33 <wrtlprnft> -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad
16:35 <Gnorty> how do I download from CVS? I tried  cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad login but it asks for password?
16:36 <wrtlprnft> at least it's not just me
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah it is, you guys are on crack
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> ok, for anonymous just hit enter for password
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d :ext:davidfancella@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I just used and got a checkout with it, no problem
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's obviously not anonymous cvs :)
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> Password: There is no password for anonymous CVS access (just hit the enter key when prompted for one). You must generate a SSH key for developer authentication.
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> -- Fromt the Fine Manual :)
16:38 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: can you try again and see if it still works?
16:38 <Gnorty> OK, so I did that and it LOOKS like nothing happened.
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> ?  you mean right now?  I just did it, trying to answer your question
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> there it goes again
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> you did generate an ssh key, right?
16:39 <wrtlprnft> very weird since it doesn't work for me
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if it'll still take passwords or now
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> *not
16:39 <wrtlprnft> uh, I have one for ages
16:39 <Gnorty> I am back to the $ prompt. nothing about downloads/connections/ anything
16:39 <wrtlprnft> *had
16:40 <wrtlprnft> trying to upload another one...
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> ping armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~/Projects/armagetronad$ ping armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> PING armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net ( 56(84) bytes of data.
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from 1.cvs.sourceforge.net ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=64.8 ms
16:40 <wrtlprnft> works just fine
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> now copy your whole command line to here
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> you too, Gnory
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> *Gnorty
16:41  * wrtlprnft already did
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, you only gave the part that says -d*blah*
16:42 <wrtlprnft> scroll up
16:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --with co
16:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:41:16] <Lucifer_arma> now copy your whole command line to here
16:42 <wrtlprnft> #last --with -P
16:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:14:47] <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 1 $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:wrtlprnft@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co -P armagetronad
16:42 <Gnorty> I just did, but cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad login
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> space between -d and :ext:
16:43 <wrtlprnft> uh, no, there isn't one
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> put one?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> same error, of course
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: right, you've logged in.  It's a two-step process.  Now try the checkout command.
16:43 <wrtlprnft> same command, that space should be optional
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad <-- works after login
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> so the space is optional.  I"ve had it bitch at me in the past for not putting the space there, though.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> well, thanks :) but it didn' help
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> I get a password prompt when I try your command line.
16:45 <Gnorty> $ checkout
16:45 <Gnorty> bash: checkout: command not found
16:45 <Gnorty>  - like I said, back to command prompt after the password
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: I just gave you the command line to run after the login you ran.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> #last --with pserver
16:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [16:44:20] <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad <-- works after login
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: does anonymous cvs work for you?
16:46 <wrtlprnft> testing...
16:46 <Gnorty> downloading :)
16:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, same error
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's the error?
16:47 <wrtlprnft> posted above...
16:47 <wrtlprnft> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:47 <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> cvs checkout: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> [04:14 pm] <wrtlprnft> cvs [checkout aborted]: no repository
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I found it, haha.  :)  Ok....
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> that means the path is wrong, but you are connecting
16:48 <wrtlprnft> uh, wait
16:48  * wrtlprnft smacks his head
16:48 <wrtlprnft> I executed that command within the build dir of my old checkout
16:49 <wrtlprnft> that is armagetronad/build2... looks like it got confused by that
16:50 <wrtlprnft> thanks for the help :)
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> anytime :)
16:50 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:50 <ghableska> Hi.
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> is anonymous cvs still on a 5 hour delay?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> no idea
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm asking because I can probably fix that a bit when I get the cronjob going on my server to backup the repo.
16:51 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:51 <wrtlprnft> well, how often are you gonna run that cronjob?
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> if we wanted to use it for testers, I'd run it at whatever interval y'all wanted it to run at.  rsync doesn't use hardly any bandwidth when you do it right, which sourceforge is forcing me to do.  :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> can you make it "on command"?
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> so I would run it even at 2-minute intervals.  I think 1 minute might be too often, I'd wind up with concurrent and conflicting tasks.
16:53 <wrtlprnft> like, put some CGI script on your web server that causes an update
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> don't know.  Can I?  ;)
16:53 <Lucifer_arma> I could do that
16:53 <wrtlprnft> then you can run it daily and tell the testers that they have to use that URL first
16:53 <wrtlprnft> and of course make a time check so you can only call it every 10 minutes or se
16:53 <wrtlprnft> so
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> it should be more often just so testers can test immediately, but not so often that rsync will wind up running 5-6 times and clobbering each other's work.  :)
16:54 <wrtlprnft> should be possible... make the script setuid to some cvs user account that has access to your key and local repository copy
16:55 <wrtlprnft> then make it every 2 minutes... but i wouldn't say more often
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> that part's easy.  It would be particularly nice if I could just run a pserver here and have it fetch from rsync whenever someone asks for it.
16:55 <wrtlprnft> that would be an idea as well
16:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe some inetd thingy?
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> but I think people would be happy with a "click this button" solution too
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> can inetd do that?  I know inetd is required to get the pserver thing going
16:56 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it doesn't matter if sourceforge's anonymous servers are no longer behind
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, not another jesus lover
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you'll have to register to get /msg commands and stuff.  It's not terribly difficult, though.
16:57 <GodTodd> like registering the nick, you mean?
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  There's a message when you join the network that tells you how to do it, or at least the web page you need to go to to see it.
16:57 <wrtlprnft> just talk through armabot?
16:57 <GodTodd> yep did it
16:58 <GodTodd> and if you're referring to me as a jesus lover....not just no but hell no ;)
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:58 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: does armabot accept chats from unregistered people?
16:58 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: it takes whatever freenode takes.  So a previously unknown user to armabot can commune with her in private
16:59  * Lucifer_arma has decided armabot is a she
16:59 <wrtlprnft> you can send some message to nickserv so you get messages from users not registered to it
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he did it already.
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> er
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute
17:00  * wrtlprnft did it too
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> different thing.  YOu can?  I dont' know that I want armabot to do that, though.  :)
17:00 -!- You're now known as wrtl_noreg
17:00 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:01 <n54> I wouldn't :)
17:01 <n54> (want that)
17:01 <wrtlprnft> if you think so...
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> gotta pee gotta pee gotta pee pee pee
17:04 <n54> hehe
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.......  even if the anonymous cvs mirrors are on a delay, is the rsync mirror the same cvsroot that we use, or is it the same one the anonymous servers use?
17:05 <n54> hey! you didn't wash your hands! :o
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> did too!
17:06 <n54> hehe :D
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> I washed them with piss.
17:06 <n54> yuckkk
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:06 <n54> :)
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> c'mon man, it's the Viking Way, isn't it?
17:06 <n54> no lol
17:07 <n54> pissing in wounds == good thing, pissing on hands == bad thing <-- very simple really :)
17:07 <GodTodd> what if the wound is on your hand?
17:07 <n54> hmm not critical, but hey if you really want to... :)
17:09  * n54 picks up the conversation and puts it back on the tracks: CVS
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> so how do we find out if the rsync daemon is on project cvs services or anonymous?
17:13 <wrtlprnft> grr now i have to find out which files I changed
17:13 <wrtlprnft> who needs an rsync daemon?
17:14 <wrtlprnft> rsync is like scp, all you need is ssh access
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> sourceforge's rsync daemon
17:14 <wrtlprnft> does it have one�
17:14 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47423#47423  <-- I'm working on this post, actually
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> grr.  now I have the same choice I had two nights ago.  Do I take a dump and then wash dishes, or wash dishes and then take a dump?
17:16 <n54> same answer; always take the dump first
17:16 <wrtlprnft> other way this time for a change?
17:16  * n54 wonders what Lucifer would do without the help of irc :)
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> the advantage is the urgency caused by having to take a dump, I'll get the dishes done faster
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:16 <n54> :)
17:16 <guru3> mix it up
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok, washing dishes.
17:16 <guru3> take a dump WHILE washing dishes!
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  my underwear's not big enough for that.
17:17 <guru3> :o
17:17 <wrtlprnft> oh SHIT
17:17 <n54> wash dishes in the nude?
17:17 <GodTodd> i do dishes while taking a dump...i love the dishwasher ;)
17:17 <wrtlprnft> I just deleted all my work, it seems
17:18 <guru3> oops?
17:18 <guru3> i hate it when that happens :/
17:18 <n54> same here GodTodd
17:18 <joda_bot> wrtl_web: does it work ?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> noooooooooooooooo
17:18 <wrtlprnft> now I'm mad
17:18 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: now it works, yes
17:19 <wrtlprnft> but wrtl_web is a zombie
17:19 <n54> instead of just in54ne?
17:19 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec
17:19 <wrtlprnft> i rsynced my home directory to my server yesterday
17:19  * wrtlprnft smiles
17:20 <wrtlprnft> it was just runnining another rsync, but it looks like it didn't reach my mess yet
17:21 <joda_bot> does anyone know a way to contact whatup ?
17:21 <wrtlprnft> uh... catch him on fortress?
17:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has left #armagetron []
17:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
17:21 <joda_bot> Because he asked to play for the 8th, and as CT objects us playing any further spoon match (until it's done) ... we'll just do a friendship match vs. MBC
17:22 <joda_bot> heh right he's on ;)
17:22 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:22  * wrtlprnft praises armaspy
17:25 <wrtlprnft> phew. my files are back and saved :)
17:31 <Lucifer_arma> didn't make it
17:31 <guru3> good night ya'll
17:31 <wrtlprnft> night guru3 
17:31 <n54> night guru3
17:34 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50871FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:43 <Gnorty> joda- I think he lives on CVS
17:44 <Gnorty> can someone explain how to compile CVS? I downloaded, but usually ./configure, but seems not to be there
17:45 <Gnorty> and /doc/html is not present
17:48 <wrtlprnft> use ./bootstrap.sh
17:48 <wrtlprnft> and then ./configure
17:49 <Gnorty> :)
17:50 <wrtlprnft> took me a while to figure out as well
17:50 <Gnorty> now to install GLU :(
17:50 <wrtlprnft> GLU?
17:50 <Gnorty> You need GLU to compile Armagetron; it SHOULD have come with OpenGL.
17:50 <wrtlprnft> well then
17:51 <n54> just don't sniff it!
17:51 <wrtlprnft> install opengl-dev
17:51 <Gnorty> also  SDL_mixer library not found. You will not hear music
17:51 <wrtlprnft> and install sdl-dev
17:51 <Gnorty> in the process :)
17:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:51 <wrtlprnft> and install ftgl, before you ask ;)
17:52 <Gnorty> ftgl?
17:52 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:52 <Gnorty> whassat?
17:53 <wrtlprnft> it should complain if you have a somewhat recent version of arma and don't have ftgl installed
17:53 <wrtlprnft> font library
17:53 <Gnorty> ah, kk
17:53 <wrtlprnft> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/henryj/code/index.html#FTGL
17:53 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't complain chances are that anonymous CVS is messed up
17:54 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> dishes = done
17:55 <n54> dump = ?
17:55 <Gnorty> seeing if it is in the distro atm
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> and I was right, I did 90% of my dishes while the dump was teasing my rectum
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> dump = done, too.  Interupted dish-washing
17:55 <n54> don't go brokeback mountain on us! just go to the loo :D
17:55 <Lucifer_arma> what distro, Gnorty?
17:55 <Gnorty> fedora
17:56  * Lucifer_arma was happy to see ftgl with Kubuntu :)
17:57 <wrtlprnft> note: do backups, kids. they do come handy sometimes :)
17:57 <Gnorty> you like ubuntu luci? I couldn't get on with it
17:57 <n54> kftgl you mean? ;P
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> Rsync access to the developer CVS content is provided, allowing projects and other users direct access to the raw CVS repository data, much like the deprecated nightly tarball service. The use of rsync means that there will no longer be a delay between what is in the repository and the data that a user can download for backups or major code refactoring.
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like ubuntu, I'm using kubuntu.  :)
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> I know, the only difference is KDE vs GNOME, but man does GNOME suck or what?
17:58 <wrtlprnft> as i said already, my only try with (k)ubuntu doesn't exactly make me wanna try again
17:58 <n54> I used to use gnome when I had redhat running in ancient times I tried it again something like two years ago and since then I don't want to look
17:59 <n54> and I didn't like ubuntu or kubuntu either
17:59 <wrtlprnft> the setup hang for full 4 minutes as it tried to DHCP with both network cards, not interruptable, setting up the network without DHCP was a pain, and it didn't have a GUI at all for proxy settings
17:59 <Gnorty> I thought too much hassle to install servers on ubuntu. I guess HUman beigs are not meant to go for that stuff
17:59 <wrtlprnft> i manually had to google to get apt-get to use the proxy
18:00 <Gnorty> but IIRC it was where I first found arma, so not all bad
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, how long ago was all this?  My own switch is fairly recent, and I didn't have any of the problems you guys had.
18:01 <wrtlprnft> that has half a year ago
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> can't forget, this stuff improves quickly, so even a 6-month-old impression is old.
18:01 <Gnorty> mine was maybe a year back?
18:01 <n54> probably at least a year ago since I tried k/ubuntu (both)
18:01 <Gnorty> hoary or breezy, whichever was first
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.......
18:01 <n54> hoary here iirc
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> that reminds me I needed to post that the wiki's going down soon for a little bit.
18:01 <wrtlprnft> there was absolutely no useful documentation on configuring apt-get, i ended up using google on some debian site
18:02 <Gnorty> luci - you have apache/php/mysql working?
18:02 <wrtlprnft> do you use kubuntu or gentoo now for the server?
18:02 <Gnorty> I guess you do, but I had real problems with it
18:03 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, committed the updated font and support for different aspect ratios in the cockpit
18:03 <wrtlprnft> it just squishes everything to fit, but keeps the aspect ratio of the font
18:04 <wrtlprnft> I'll probably change it again at some time so it squishes all gauges but keeps the aspect ratio of the individual gauges
18:04  * wrtlprnft has to learn some proper grammar
18:04 <n54> and then the same for the bikes/arena?
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> the server is still on Mandriva 10.1
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I'll test it in a little bit.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> um, any reason we didn't ask tank to boot wrtl_web when he was here?
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> #message guru3 Can you kick wrtl_web when you get a chance?  It's a zombie...
18:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: with Mandriva packages, getting apache/php/mysql working was just a matter of installing them.  I had more trouble with kubuntu doing the same thing, now I use XAMPP for that sort of work.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> I don't use XAMPP on a server, of course, only for development, which is what I do on my Kubuntu box anyway.
18:07  * Lucifer_arma whistles
18:07 <wrtlprnft> why is that guy still on anyways?
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet if joda_bot restarts his apache server, the zombie will be killed
18:08 <wrtlprnft> probably my antiproxy script is still connected to joda's server
18:08 <n54> he's dining on the lurkers wrtlprnft :)
18:08  * wrtlprnft restarts his server
18:09 <Gnorty> ^ what I said. back in the day, when I used redhat/debian it was easy - worked out of the box. somehow, easy linux distros made it hard! It is not so bad with fedora
18:09 -!- wrtl_web [n=55e92016@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
18:09 <wrtlprnft> there we go
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> ah, the difference for me with Kubuntu wasn't that they made it hard, it was that they didn't use the insecure default settings Mandriva used.  :)
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> I had the same problems in a newer version of Mandriva, it's basically a problem not yet solved by the underlying projects, or the distro hasn't completely assimilated changes of the underlying projects
18:10 <n54> any of you tried lighttpd?
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> I anticipate having the same problems with apache when I get the gentoo server up and running, and I'll just have to deal with it.  That's a production server, no fooling around.
18:10 <Gnorty> I tried mandriva for about an hour. forget what I didnt like about it, I think I was trying to install on a tricky laptop that mandrake was a breeze on, and it didnt work so got binned
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I haven't.  I want to contribute my share to apache's web dominance.  :)
18:11 <n54> hehe all right :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> mandriva/mandrake has always been hit and miss on laptops.  :)  Kubuntu went on this one pretty easily.
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> Mandriva didn't go on so easily, though.
18:12 <Gnorty> my laptop has 1024x600 screen, and needs a manual edit of xorg.conf normally.
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's funky.  Hey, test wrtl's changes to the cockpit coordinate system.  :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> this one runs 1280x800, and Mandriva didn't like that.  Needed to hack xorg.conf...
18:12 <Gnorty> I dont mind working from the console, but bashing away on the console trying to get things running at all is just painful
18:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: does it work?
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> A newer Mandriva handled it, but I switched to Kubuntu which also handled it nicely, and had a package in their repo for the nvidia driver to boot.
18:13 <Gnorty> Luci - I am looking to do just that :)
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: don't know, I'm kinda fucking off.  Let me grab a smoke and then I'll test it.
18:13 <wrtlprnft> ok
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i thought you just tested
18:13 <wrtlprnft> it
18:13  * wrtlprnft got something wrong, wrtlprnft guesses
18:15 <Gnorty> note to self: installing libraries as a normal user is not best
18:15 <n54> what are you running Gnorty?
18:15 <Gnorty> ??
18:15 <Gnorty> distro?
18:15 <n54> os-wise
18:15 <n54> yes
18:15 <Gnorty> fedora
18:15 <n54> oh ok
18:16  * n54 was just curious
18:16 <Gnorty> of all the "human friendly" OS's it is about the most like the old school. the old school ones are either too hardcore, too commercial or too political these days
18:17 <Gnorty> dunno about SuSe, havent looked at that for ages
18:19 <n54> me neither, and as to political stuff I have three options I rotate between; let it amuse me, ignore it, or agree with whatever detail fits me :)
18:21 <Gnorty> all the proprietory format crap is kinda hard to ignore.
18:22 <n54> yes I agree with Stallman etc. on most of that stuff
18:22 <n54> or did you mean it the other way around?
18:23 <Gnorty> I mean I want to play .mp3, .qt, .wmv .ra
18:23 <Gnorty> I dont really care for the politics of why not
18:23 <wrtlprnft> a distro that can't play mp3 is useless. DOT.
18:23 <Gnorty> I kind of understand the legalities
18:23 <n54> ok by me I view those thigns as personal decisions
18:23 <n54> things*
18:24 <Gnorty> but dislike all the "we wont include it because there is no source"
18:24 <n54> even though I wouldn't use it myself
18:24 <Gnorty> wrtl - exactly
18:24 <wrtlprnft> but i don't want DRM for linux either
18:24 <n54> well that's for the developers to decide really imo, some do incorporate it, some don't
18:25 <Gnorty> playing is not so hard, but trying to rip from CDs? HA!!
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> #last --with davidfancella
18:25 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [16:37:36] <Lucifer_arma> cvs -d :ext:davidfancella@armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/armagetronad co armagetronad
18:25 <Gnorty> ogg is better IMO, but my portable wont polay it, neither will my car, so I need MP3
18:25 <wrtlprnft> well, i don't think there will ever be opensource DRM playing software maintained by the people who sell those things ;)
18:26 <Gnorty> n54 agreed re developers, but what of distros that include the package, but not the plugins?
18:27 <Gnorty> tthat pisses me off
18:27 <Gnorty> grrrrrrrrrrrr
18:27 <Gnorty> ^ see?
18:27 <n54> well that's usually because of conflict of copyright yes?
18:27 <Gnorty> yes
18:27 <n54> so it's not like it's the distros fault
18:28  * n54 can't believe he's defending linux ;)
18:28 <Gnorty> some distros will risk it, others wont
18:29 <wrtlprnft> you could just make the CD without mp3 support, but put a big button on the desktop that downloads the necessary packages from the internet and installs them
18:29 <n54> lame is ok imo
18:29 <n54> I even use lame on windows
18:32 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: hehe fell into my Player 1- server trap?
18:32 <wrtlprnft> and i got a spammer as well :o
18:33 <Gnorty> wrtl - :) what I think. why force users to switch to unsupported repos? they should either just say "liinux is just for geeks" and leave it be, or else make it OK for Joe Public. This half way shit is useless
18:33 <wrtlprnft> i thought the only point was that they don't wanna put mp3 support on GPL CDs?
18:34 <Gnorty> no, there is also legal issues
18:34 <n54> that's the deal with _all_ proprietary formats; legal issues, and it's not much the devs can do about it really
18:34 <Gnorty> debian is pretty tight on GPL, fair enough, that is debians policy, but redhat was always less fussy
18:35 <n54> at least not right there and then
18:36 <Gnorty> surely if winamp can do it for free, it must be possible to distribute on linux
18:37 <wrtlprnft> when will that mp3 patent expire?
18:38 <n54> heh for free to the end user doesn't mean it's really free
18:38 <n54> many years into the future
18:39 <Gnorty> no, I appreciate that, but how does winamp pay? not some guy with a panchant for programming and a pocket full of cash  for licenses
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: it works, but shouldn't they be short and fat, not tall and skinny?
18:39 <n54> I don't know the details of german patent expirations, but I would still think that it's many years away
18:39 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: can you give me a screenshot
18:39 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:39 <wrtlprnft> I didn't really test it because i have some normal screen resolution :)
18:39 <n54> winamp = nullsoft = aol (might have changed recently)
18:40 <wrtlprnft> IIRC the mp3 patent isn't valid in germany, but i might be wrong
18:40 <n54> and note that playback of mp3 doesn't neccessitate holding a license (hence lame) and note that playback winamp has always been free
18:41 <n54> hmm I doubt that wrtlprnft but perhaps you're right
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47435#47435  <--- screenshot of aspect ratio thingee
18:43 <wrtlprnft> hmm. that map is funny...
18:43 <wrtlprnft> maybe i mixed up the height and width parameters
18:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: committed a fix, try again
18:49 <n54> nice story: http://www.365tomorrows.com/05/03/mrs-lansing-and-the-school-of-humans/
18:52 <wrtlprnft> interesting
18:52 <wrtlprnft> but i wonder how to create web pages without a program
18:53 <n54> yeah some of the stuff on that site is really good (and some of it not so good of course)
18:53 <n54> notepad or similar :)
18:53 <wrtlprnft> like, would you open the harddrive and use a tiny bagnet?
18:53 <n54> hehe
18:53 <wrtlprnft> *magnet
19:00 <Gnorty> that story was written by a fuckwit
19:01 <n54> lol why do say that?
19:01 <n54> do you*
19:01 <Gnorty> because clearly who wrote it didnt have a clue.
19:01 <Lucifer_arma> that looks right
19:01 <Gnorty> they just thought it was some cool hacker shit to write
19:02 <n54> hmm I you must be reading it differently than me
19:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it should be exactly a square now
19:02 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: the cockpit looks right now, no disappearing gauges, the map looks square.  :)
19:02 <n54> I think*
19:02 <Gnorty> I would punch mrs lancing in the tit if she slapped me in the head
19:02 <wrtlprnft> the HUD map will now have exactly the proportions of the big map
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> right, and then fuck her up the ass!
19:03 <Gnorty> and say "get a fucking clue biznatch"
19:03 <wrtlprnft> that means if you make the height of your map in the xml file bigger than the width, a square map will still be square
19:03 <Gnorty> "this is the fucking welcome page for the webserver I wrote."
19:03 <wrtlprnft> but a map that is higher than wide will have more room
19:05 <Gnorty> duno if I would fuck her up the ass though. she sounds like she migh tbe a bit leathery
19:06 <mkzelda> lol i just got kicked from CVS
19:06 <mkzelda> everyone saying 'holes are gay' so i said 'girls are for fags' and i got kicked
19:06 <wrtlprnft> for what?
19:06 <wrtlprnft> wow
19:06 <wrtlprnft> that server gets worse every day
19:07 <Gnorty> all these people saying holes are gay
19:07 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: had fun being Player 1 once again?
19:07 <mkzelda> full boat of people all believed that was the best course of action
19:07 <mkzelda> yea
19:07 <Gnorty> but where is the fortress server with no holes?
19:07 <mkzelda> but now my client keeps reverting to player 1 on its own
19:07 <mkzelda> heh
19:08 <mkzelda> since i joined crazy lines
19:08 <Gnorty> crazy lines sucks. does it fuck your client also?
19:08 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: the player 1 sticks?!
19:08 <mkzelda> it forces my player name to player1 after i leave and i have a lot of problems w/ settings not saving when i exit the client
19:09 <wrtlprnft> uh, that shouldn't happen
19:09 <mkzelda> my trail color changed from orange to red too
19:09 <wrtlprnft> what happens in single player mode?
19:09 <wrtlprnft> yes, that's intended
19:09 <mkzelda> well now its forced red, i must go change it
19:10 <wrtlprnft> but it should stay orange if you change it
19:10 <wrtlprnft> unless you join that server again
19:10 <mkzelda> yea, i just havent changed it all yet
19:10 <mkzelda> cause i usually join fortres so it doesnt matter
19:10 <wrtlprnft> i'm not as evil as i could be ;) that server could reset all your instant chat keys if it wanted
19:11 <mkzelda> hah
19:11 <mkzelda> the devil on my shoulder really wants to abuse that
19:11 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:12 <mkzelda> but the lazy bastard on my other shoulder doesnt wanna do anything
19:12 <wrtlprnft> if you want to abuse it, just tell everyone how great that server is and that they really have to try it out
19:12 <mkzelda> that could be the content of the instachats
19:12 <wrtlprnft> riight
19:13 <wrtlprnft> i could set all instant chat keys to "joun crazy lines server, it's sooo much fun!"
19:13 <wrtlprnft> *join
19:13 <wrtlprnft> then I'd get free advertising everywhere
19:14 <Gnorty> 	<!-- Hi there. Glad you found this. It hopefully won't be -->
19:14 <Gnorty> 	<!-- possible for long, so don't eve bother trying :D     -->
19:14 <Gnorty>  will work until all clients upgrade
19:14 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: u did see CT ed's response ?
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: CT vs. SS is on monday 15.05. btw
19:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes, guess it'll be a friendship game :)
19:14 <joda_bot> just saw that on the ct forums
19:14 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: fine for me
19:14 <Gnorty> wrtl - can it change keybindings?
19:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: no, don't think so
19:15 <joda_bot> ok gn8
19:15 <wrtlprnft> night
19:15 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:15 <mkzelda> my clients rarely exit cleanly when i exit a server
19:15 <mkzelda> so it loses any settings
19:16 <wrtlprnft> mine too... some bug i guess
19:16 <mkzelda> yea i figured it was common cause i run several machines and it happens on all
19:16 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: looks like it can change keybindings after all
19:16 <mkzelda> its been happening since around march or so
19:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah, me too. not my fault i think. i didn't have lots of things in CVS HEAD back then
19:18 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i could change all keys to one single instant chat key... but that would be too evil
19:19 <n54> perhaps one should just leave it be, great way for people to make themselves disliked?
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> mine crashes when I leave a server
19:21 <Lucifer_arma> pretty annoying :(
19:24 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:24 -!- spider is now known as spidey
19:25 <n54> cya all
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19:31 <spidey> sd?
19:32 <spidey> what time wrtl?
19:35 <Self_Destructo> it's 7:35pm here
19:35 <Self_Destructo> spidey: ^^
19:35 <spidey> no
19:35 <spidey> i ment the spoon
19:35 <spidey> which i realized i missed
19:35 <spidey> >.>
19:36 <spidey> hey Self_Destructo,how many IPM's would it take to destroy this
19:36 <spidey> Rocket Launcher	285	Light Laser	414
19:36 <spidey> Gauss Cannon	30	Ion Cannon	23
19:36 <spidey> Plasma Turret	8	Small Shield Dome	1
19:36 <spidey> Large Shield Dome	1
19:37 <Self_Destructo> 1 specifically for the large shield dome normally...
19:38 <Self_Destructo> 1 per ~80 light lasers - just from my own experience
19:38 <spidey> k
19:38 <spidey> if i can get that defense down by half
19:38 <spidey> i can beat the rest easily
19:38 <spidey> without losing ships
19:39 <Self_Destructo> man, what's your fleet?
19:39 <Self_Destructo> I'm building a fllet on every planet
19:39 <spidey> well,i'll lose lightfighters,but they don't count :p
19:39 <Self_Destructo> good sized ones too
19:39 <spidey> Light Fighter 	50  	max  	
19:39 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 	20 	max 	
19:39 <spidey> Cruiser 	9 	max 	
19:39 <spidey> Battleship 	5 	max 
19:39 <Self_Destructo> no kidding
19:39 <spidey> Light Fighter 	50  	max  	
19:39 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 	20 	max 	
19:39 <spidey> Cruiser 	9 	max 	
19:39 <spidey> Battleship 	5 	max 
19:39 <spidey> first planert
19:40 <spidey> Light Fighter 	249  	max  	
19:40 <spidey> Heavy Fighter 	20 	max 	
19:40 <spidey> Cruiser 	10 	max
19:40 <spidey> second planet
19:40 <spidey> and some building
19:40 <Self_Destructo> 249 light fighters :O
19:40 <spidey> :)
19:40 <Self_Destructo> a guy has to fllet save something that big
19:40 <spidey> got 1 light fighter
19:41 <spidey> and 5 heavy building on the second planet
19:41 <spidey> and 3 bombers on the first
19:41 <Self_Destructo> see
19:41 <Self_Destructo> i got...
19:41 <Self_Destructo> how many planets you got?
19:41 <spidey> 5
19:41 <Self_Destructo> i got 7 now..
19:41 <spidey> cool
19:41 <Self_Destructo> fixing to get rid of a small one if I get a bif one here in a bit
19:42 <Self_Destructo> that will smack my points for sure
19:42 <spidey> my sister planet
19:42 <spidey> is almost outta feilds
19:42 <spidey>  Diameter	10368 km (96  / 107  fields)
19:42 <Self_Destructo> uhmm... I got... fleetwise...
19:42 <spidey> the rest have 177 fields
19:42 <Self_Destructo> this is total...
19:43 <spidey> k
19:43 <Self_Destructo> 14 large cargos
19:43 <Self_Destructo> probably about 120 espianage probes
19:43 <spidey> llol
19:43 <spidey> i had to send 30 to get a full report off that one guy
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 20 light fighters
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 27 heavy
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 10 battleships...
19:44 <Self_Destructo> 12? cruisers
19:45 <Self_Destructo> 3 bombers
19:45 <Self_Destructo> i lost about 50 lightfighters and 12 cruisers in a big attack
19:45 <spidey> ouch
19:45 <spidey> total i have
19:45 <Self_Destructo> and I got a little aggreavated becuase it still ended in a draw
19:46 <Self_Destructo> Oh, well, I'll hit him again pretty quick
19:46 <spidey> 300 light fighters
19:46 <spidey> 45 havy
19:46 <spidey> 19 cruisers
19:46 <spidey> 5 battleships
19:46 <spidey> and 1 bomber,3 building
19:47 <wrtlprnft> spidey: 1PM till 4PM CDT on saturday... exact time isn't known yet
19:47 <spidey> ohhh
19:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:47 <spidey> it hasn't happened yet?
19:47 <wrtlprnft> no
19:47 <spidey> phew
19:47 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:47 <spidey> what was with the armabot message?
19:47 <spidey> sent 1 day 11 hours ago
19:47 <wrtlprnft> oh, that was old
19:47 <spidey> ah
19:48 <wrtlprnft> we decided differently
19:48 <spidey> k
19:48 <wrtlprnft> i couldn't play at that time and i assumed almost noone else could, so i dropped it
19:48 <spidey> i'ma have to stop playing soldat and more fortress 
19:48 <spidey> i kinda suck now :/
19:48 <wrtlprnft> anyways, i was in school, so i couldn't really get people to play
19:48 <wrtlprnft> nah
19:48 <wrtlprnft> let's go and practice?
19:48 <wrtlprnft> just normal CVS fortress i mean
19:49 <spidey> sure,lemme close p2p and soldat server
19:49 <wrtlprnft> :)
19:49 <spidey> oh yea,gotta reinstall arma
19:49 <spidey> :/
19:49 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:49 <spidey> i got a legit cd
19:50 <spidey> so i formatted with it
19:50 <spidey> i got 40gigs of crap on C:\
19:50 <spidey> D:\ is the fresh install :p
19:50 <spidey> anyways
19:50 <spidey> i'll see ya there
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yep, i'm waiting
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:00  * Self_Destructo is writing alot of regex
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> mmm dinner
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> I love the feeling that I don't have anything to study right now
20:19 <Lucifer_arma> school starts again on May 30, though.
20:44 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: cancer is genetically modified cells...
20:45 <Self_Destructo> makes me wonder about genetically modified food...
20:45 <Self_Destructo> if it isn't just cancer, and not really food :/
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21:10 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
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21:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: is there any way we can get captchas for the wiki?
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> don't know.  If there is, I'd be happy to put them in
21:41 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/MediaWiki:Captcha
21:41 <Lucifer_arma> if me and tank do the replication thing, then integrating phpbb and the wiki seems like a good idea
21:41 <wrtlprnft> that one looks promising
21:42 <wrtlprnft> like, get them to share the same uder db?
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> remind me after I've got the new gentoo server up
21:42 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
21:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I linked to it in the "how we'll get rid of sourceforge" thread
21:43 <wrtlprnft> might be, i didn't read all of it
21:43 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/screenshot_338.png
21:43 <wrtlprnft> look at the time :)
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> 10 minutes?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh i just see that i totally messed up the i
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 6000/60
21:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 6,000 / 60 = 100
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 100/60
21:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 100 / 60 = 1.66666667
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> 1.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 hours
21:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:45 <wrtlprnft> but hit it exactly :)
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm a go play some more
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> got some skills to recover :)
21:46 <wrtlprnft> lol
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22:02 <wrtlprnft> wait until Self_Destructo is there...
22:02 <Vanhayes> ok
22:02 <wrtlprnft> he can help you, not me, he is a windows guy
22:02 <Vanhayes> thx
22:02 <wrtlprnft> probably won't be here today or tomorrow...
22:02 <Vanhayes> ah I see
22:03 <Vanhayes> no wheres else I could get it?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> sd or joda or z-man, all of them will be able to help you
22:03 <wrtlprnft> well, you have to figure out how to compile it, that's the trouble
22:03 <Vanhayes> ok
22:04 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know exactly how to do that on windows, but you need code::blocks and some CVS client
22:04  * wrtlprnft is back to fortress now
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> waa, that was very satisfying
22:42 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:42 <wrtlprnft> I hope you won't get much better
22:43 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo uh, Vanhayes wants to compile CVS HEAD and he'll probably need some help... maybe you can try to get him started? ;)
22:43 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:44 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Windows_Development_System
22:44 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: that's a good starting point i think
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> man, I'm just getting started.  I feel like such a noob right now.
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you should actually download the game and give it a whirl.  We can use some fresh blood.  :)
22:51 <wrtlprnft> come on, you're beating the hell out of people
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> I remember going 1 v 5 and winning, man.
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> now I'm getting nervous when 3 come at me
22:52 <wrtlprnft> heh. same with me, but times changed
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  People are actually better, too.  seems like, anyway.
22:52 <wrtlprnft> really depends on the time of the day, too
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> still, now that people have decided holes are wussy, seems like it should be even easier to beat them.
22:53 <wrtlprnft> uh, i didn't agree to that
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> neither did I.  :)
22:53 <wrtlprnft> people are using them, and the anti- hole front has shrunk
22:53 <wrtlprnft> shrunk= shrunken? shrinked?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> has it?  mkzelda got booted earlier today for using holes, or something like that
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> shrunk is correct
22:53 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:53 <wrtlprnft> thanks
22:54 <wrtlprnft> i dunno what happened to mkzelda, but I don't feel it that much anymore
22:54 <wrtlprnft> but one day was really bad and they booted people for defending
22:55 <wrtlprnft> the other team was rushing through and winning all the time, but some idiot was telling everyone not to def
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> that's crazy shit
22:56 <wrtlprnft> oh, btw, on double-grinding: you should really watch Zop a few rounds. I think he's the only person that can give his team an advantage by double- grinding
22:56 <wrtlprnft> it's amazing how reliably he kills entire wings :)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> I stumbled over his wall quite a few times earlier...
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> some doublegrinders I love when I'm defending, because they'll blow a hole in the walls back there that I can go through and actually setup faster
22:57 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:57 <wrtlprnft> i know those holes
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I need to sumo some.  not right this minute, but I definitely need to spend some time over there
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to improve all of my skills, not just tight defense
22:57 <wrtlprnft> I#ll go to bed soon
22:58 <wrtlprnft> sumo is great practice :)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've only got about 3 weeks before the next semester starts
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's calc II in the 11-week semester, so I'll probably not be able to play much then, either
22:58 <wrtlprnft> only? that's a whopping big vacation
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> ?  the winter break's longer....
22:59 <wrtlprnft> well, from my point of view it is :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I also have to settle my residence status before then, so I only have to pay $400 for the class
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's $800
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> and I probably can't take it if it's $800, which will screw me for calc IV in a year
23:00 <wrtlprnft> good luck then i guess
23:01 <wrtlprnft> now, can someone tell me why those f*** gnome packages refuse to disappear from my system?
23:01 <wrtlprnft> they just wanna be re- emerged on update and the dependency tree shows nothing useful
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> which packages are they?
23:03 <wrtlprnft> uh, lemme see, but it's lots
23:05 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/55498
23:05 <wrtlprnft> basically all the ones with gnome in it i wanna get rid of
23:06 <wrtlprnft> and i have -gnome in my USE flags, of course
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, I don't know
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> but they're not very big packages
23:09 <wrtlprnft> evolution-data-server looks big
23:09 <wrtlprnft> (it's 0KB since the required files are already cached)
23:12 <wrtlprnft> let's see if i can get rid of all the clutter around it (with packages i want) by manually updating those
23:14 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3400
23:14 <wrtlprnft> that's trac
23:14 <wrtlprnft> http://master1.armagetronad.net:8000/armagetronad
23:17 <wrtlprnft> good night, won't wait for kdelibs to emerge
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Log from 2006-05-13:
--- Day changed Sat May 13 2006
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01:36 <philippeqc> good morning
01:55 <z-man-home> morning
01:56 <philippeqc> How are you today
01:56 <z-man-home> not yet fully awake, 1/5th cup of coffee left
01:57 <philippeqc> That 1/5 seems to have great power
01:57 <guru3> good morning
01:57 <philippeqc> to make such a difference
01:57 <philippeqc> Hi guru
01:59 <philippeqc> O, I just realised I was about to reinvent the wheel. Anyone know of easy way to do the Set (as in Set and Subset) operation Union, Intersection and Difference between 2 collections (deque in this case)
02:01 <z-man-home> You're using deques as sets? Are the contents sorted?
02:02 <z-man-home> guru3: when will your exams be over? It would be nice if we could make the Darcs/SVN/CVS/Mantis/Trac/Bugzilla decision soon, when you an Lucifer_arma are free
02:03 <guru3> my last exam is the 23rd of may
02:03 <guru3> between now and then i have 8 more exams
02:03 <z-man-home> I didn't know there were that many subjects to study :)
02:03 <guru3> only 6
02:03 <guru3> but multiple exams in each
02:03 <z-man-home> ah
02:04 <guru3> so exams started on the 2nd
02:04 <guru3> i've done 7 so far :/
02:05 <philippeqc> The crowd (lucifer and wrt) insisted on deques, I just wanted collections. As for being sorted, atm it is unknown, as it will return list of players. But I could manage to have them sorted.
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> um, I just need some pointers to where the connection info or whatever is for the test systems
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> my exams are over
02:05 <z-man-home> I gave the pointers on the forum :)
02:06 <z-man-home> darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v 
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I see them now
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I was immersed in fortress, been awhile since I could just take a few fuck off hours and play :)
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> um, I didn't insist on deques....
02:07 <guru3> oy gevalt!
02:07 <z-man-home> philippeqc: unsorted deques or vectors are horribly bad for set operations :)
02:08  * Lucifer_arma is installing darcs, hopefully
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> what's the other scm we're looking at?
02:08 <z-man-home> SVN
02:08 <guru3> i like svn
02:08 <guru3> i know how to use it :/
02:08 <z-man-home> bzr basically is out for clumsy merge support
02:08 <guru3> why can't we find a revision control system that's based on mysql
02:09 <guru3> and then use the mysql redundancy thing
02:09 <philippeqc> z-man-home: that I've guessed. I was just about to start coding the intersection method when I realised that, and that someone else must have already written that code.
02:09 <z-man-home> I'd transform the deques into sets just for the operation, then transform them back
02:10 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: ok, not insisted, just presented as a better alternative. 
02:10 <philippeqc> Is there a Set std class?
02:10 <z-man-home> and for sets (the same works with deques, but slower), for a union/intersection/difference, I'd iterate over one container and check whether the element also is in the other, and put it into the result container
02:10 <z-man-home> std::set , yes
02:11 <z-man-home> it's basically a std::map without values
02:11 <z-man-home> http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/set.html
02:11 <philippeqc> just found generic algorith set_difference, set_intersection, set_symetricdifference and set_union
02:11 <z-man-home> oh, sweet.
02:11 <philippeqc> yes really
02:12 <philippeqc> seems to work from 4 iterators and one output!
02:13 <z-man-home> Then they only work on sorted containers.
02:13 <philippeqc> Making sure they are sorted is a low price!
02:13 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: what "resources" are under our control besides the forums, wiki & main site
02:13 <z-man-home> aabeta?
02:14 <guru3> anyone? anyone at all?
02:14 <guru3> ;)
02:14 <philippeqc> resource.armagetronad.net
02:14 <z-man-home> Of course,  it's Luke's, so it can be argued aabeta is not really under our control :)
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:14 <philippeqc> so is the resource one
02:14 <philippeqc> sorry guru3, I cant help you with that question
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's it.  And if we get off sf for trackers and scm, then those too
02:15 <z-man-home> Perhaps the master servers fit that category as well
02:15 <guru3> gargh blah
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~/Projects/test$ darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> darcs failed:  You must provide 'get' with either one or two arguments.
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> right, yes, the master servers that we control directly fit that category
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> someone making a list?  :)
02:16 <z-man-home> what's your darcs version?
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> 1.0.3
02:16 <guru3> i don't feel like doing anything else to the forums, so... i'm just not gonna add those sections
02:17 <z-man-home> perhaps you need --partial -v http:// instead
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that was it
02:17 <z-man-home> I've got 1.0.5
02:17 <guru3> breakfast bbl
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> um, ok, for the forums and the wiki, if they just let us make ...
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> ok
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> nvm.  Not sure I"m thinking too clearly right now, heh
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> how long does it take darcs to get the thing?
02:19 <z-man-home> The server has only 128kbit/s upload bandwidth...
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, we wanted a distributed setup with sourceforge's SCM as basically a backup, right?
02:19 <z-man-home> You're fetching some megabytes
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> was darcs the only distributed setup to show up?
02:19 <z-man-home> If we're using SVN as a basis, this SVK or whatever it was can be used by anyone, too
02:20 <z-man-home> Running the SCM ourselves completely was also discussed
02:21 <z-man-home> I personally don't mind, if we have mirrors in place, the SF outages don't worry me too much
02:21 <z-man-home> Using Trac with the SVN integration it provides is tempting, however. That would be more difficult if the SVN repository is remote.
02:21 <z-man-home> Impossible even, maybe.
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> well, I looked over trac a bit.  I don't think the wiki would replace our wiki, but it would make sense to put development documentation in it
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> end-user docs would still go on the wiki we already have.  I suppose we could throw out what we've got and move to that one.
02:22 <z-man-home> Yes, I feel the same about the wiki
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> bug tracking looked fine to me, I'm simple about that sort of the thing.
02:22 <z-man-home> Altough the Trac wiki is extensible with python :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't manage to coerce it to let me play with the roadmap.  Is it safe to assume the roadmap provided is better than using a tracker?
02:23  * Lucifer_arma notes that "extensible with Python" should be used with care if you want reasonable thoughts from him.  :)
02:24 <z-man-home> Oh, I removed roadmap admin rights from the anonymous user. Shall I give them back?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, I don't know
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> depends on the answer to my question.  Ok, here's the thing.
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> IN 1 hour I could write a tracker that's better than sourceforge's, right?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> literally just about anything is better and more worthwhile for us.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm easy.  :)  Trac looks good.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't want to take over our own scm unless it's distributed.  If it's distributed, I"ll be happy to take it over.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> if it can be distributed in a way that sourceforge has a node, so much the better.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I think.  And near as I can tell, in that regard just about anything is better than cvs.  :)
02:26 <z-man-home> Anonymous users have admin rights now on trac
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, Trac also looks like it does everything useful that sourceforge does except the file release system.  Is all of trac python-extensible?
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> because if it is..........................
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> the flip side is that I know gForge pretty well having had hacking it as a recent assignment.
02:27 <z-man-home> We could use SF's SVN as the central node, with emergency mirrors via rsync and general use mirrors via SVK or darcs.
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I've got darcs and svk both installed now.  svn of course, had that for awhile.
02:28 <z-man-home> Could you set us a gforge test server? Or does it look too much like SF to be worth it?
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it *is* SF.  :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> um, look over gForge.com, I think it is, maybe gforge.org
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it takes awhile to setup, it's a pain to setup actually.
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and, to be honest, trac provides all the stuff gforge has that we don't already have, except the file release system
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and it looks like Trac's UI is substantially better.  :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> brb, kid's coughing
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, back
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> gforge for us is just "start with exactly what we have and build our own from there".  That's all.  Get something that gives us a lot more from the starting line, forget about gforge.
02:31 <z-man-home> The important bit about the file release system are the mirrors, IMHO, and the strong SF mirrors can't be replaced by anything we can set up
02:32 <z-man-home> And for betas, we either have aabeta or attachments in Trac
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> right.  Although we might be able to throw together a front-end that works for us and uses sourceforge's for the backend.
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> especially if sourceforge gets smart and works on a soap interface to it.  :)
02:32 <z-man-home> I'd be extremely happy if there was a replacement for the horrible file release submission UI :)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, one more to look at
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> maybe
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/issues
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'd be inclined to go to Drupal for everything.  Move the forums into it, the main website, trackers, everything, and write our own modules to do it as needed.
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> it might be more work than a lot of other things, but Drupal really does do the rest of the stuff we need
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> like, um, dealing with replication or some other mechanism to distribute the site contained
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> 1 login for forums, wiki, and the other stuff
02:37 <z-man-home> Is the tracker used by trupal really part of drupal itself?
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/  <-- this is the project module
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> the tracker I just linked is part of the project module
02:37 <z-man-home> I stumbled across it when the last release was announced, and wondered whether I should suggest it
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> I can probably setup a test of that pretty easily--after I upgrade my website
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> but you can use the one on Drupal's site to test it just fine.  :)  mostly, anyway.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> Drupal's api for modules pretty much forces tight integration.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> and my next (not current) assignment is going to be writing everything I just did as mambo components into drupal modules.  :)  So I'm literally going to be swimming in it in another month or two
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> the Project module would also give us a moviepack hosting place, and other third-party additions for the game
02:41 <z-man-home> It looks and feels nice, that's for sure.
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think we should seriously consider this.  :)
02:41 <z-man-home> yes, absolutely.
02:42  * z-man-home has to go shopping now
02:43 <z-man-home> away display isn't updated properly, it seems :)
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02:48 <guru3> back
02:49 <guru3> my hands hurt :(
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> now that I look at it, drupal's tracker doesn't look much better than sourceforge's :/
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll post about it instead :)
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04:11 <philippeqc>  /away
04:20 <guru3> heh
04:20 <guru3> smoothe
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> ?
04:21 <guru3> nm
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Wiki Land
04:25 <guru3> aye
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08:07 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:07 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune:  I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few || months. I just love debugging ;-) || -- Linus Torvalds
08:08  * wrtlprnft hopes the version system stuff will be decided soom :)
09:01 <guru3> anyone good with modems?
09:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:16 <wrtlprnft> haven't used/seen one in 2 years
09:16 <guru3> i need the linux equivelent of hyperterminal :/
09:17 <wrtlprnft> minicom?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/minicom/
09:19 <wrtlprnft> i used that for programming (actually debugging) some small robot over a serial interface
09:20 <guru3> yes
09:20 <guru3> something like that
09:21 <wrtlprnft> the manual went through hyperterminal for windows and minicom for unix, so i guess they're similar
09:21 <z-man-home> yes, they are, I worked a while with both
09:22 <z-man-home> back in the days where my university didn't offer SLIP access :)
09:23 <guru3> you think
09:23 <guru3> that there would be more apps for this in unix
09:23 <wrtlprnft> thanks for adding joda_bot and me to the authors file :)
09:23 <z-man-home> you were already there in the branch
09:23 <wrtlprnft> oh, really?
09:23 <z-man-home> I think so. Today, I just merged.
09:24 <wrtlprnft> didn't notice... most of my work is in the trunk
09:24 <guru3> z-man-home: do you know the gentoo package for cu?
09:24 <z-man-home> what is cu?
09:24 <guru3> i think it stands for call user
09:24 <guru3> http://www.computerhope.com/unix/ucu.htm
09:24 <z-man-home> ah, the progam that lets you contact another local user?
09:25 <z-man-home> ah no, a terminal program :)
09:25 <guru3> yes
09:25 <guru3> nice & simple
09:26 <guru3> ad it's like dropped off the end of the earth
09:26 <z-man-home> nobody wants those anymore, it seems
09:27 <guru3> :/
09:27 <guru3> i miss hyperterminal :(
09:28 <wrtlprnft> WINE?
09:28 <guru3> i've got an app for my mac that does it
09:28 <guru3> my palm
09:28 <guru3> WINDOWS
09:28 <guru3> i've seen it for a newton
09:28 <guru3> but windows
09:28 <guru3> *but linux
09:28 <guru3> is like a dead zone
09:29 <wrtlprnft> interesting since linux first was nothing more than a terminal emulator
09:29 <guru3> yes
09:29 <guru3> now how do i use minicom ><
09:29 <wrtlprnft> uh
09:29 <wrtlprnft> long time ago...
09:30 <wrtlprnft> let me install it first, maybe it comes back to me
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09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: What about our match tonight or tomorrow ?
09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: how many players do u have ?
09:36 <wrtlprnft> guru3: first say <C-A>P and set up the right parameters i guess
09:36 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: currently 3, but i didn't hear from ota, eagle and miro yet
09:36 <guru3> hmm
09:37 <guru3> im back to getting the modem working it seems
09:37 <wrtlprnft> guru3: and then and then <C-A>o
09:37 <wrtlprnft> there select serial port setup to get the right device file
09:38 <guru3> i need to get the damn modem working first
09:38 <guru3> i thought it was :/
09:38 <wrtlprnft> and that's about what I know about it
09:38 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: how many do you have?
09:39 <guru3> ok
09:39 <guru3> thanks
09:40 <wrtlprnft> works?
09:42 <guru3> still on it
09:42 <guru3> yes it does
09:42 <wrtlprnft> :)
09:42 <guru3> need a phone cable now
09:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what's on the wiki ;)
09:43 <guru3> ok
09:43 <guru3> now to see if modem to modem works
09:43 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: except for ender and you , who ?
09:43 <joda_bot> spidey ?
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i think so, yes
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #last --from spidey --nolimit
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:51:01] <spidey> i'll see ya there, [19:50:59] <spidey> anyways, [19:50:53] <spidey> D:\ is the fresh install :p, [19:50:49] <spidey> i got 40gigs of crap on C:\, [19:50:12] <spidey> so i formatted with it, [19:50:07] <spidey> i got a legit cd, [19:49:40] <spidey> :/, [19:49:40] <spidey> oh yea,gotta reinstall arma, [19:49:13] <spidey> sure,lemme close p2p and soldat server, (7 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #more
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:48:43] <spidey> i kinda suck now :/, [19:48:39] <spidey> i'ma have to stop playing soldat and more fortress, [19:48:25] <spidey> k, [19:48:06] <spidey> ah, [19:47:59] <spidey> sent 1 day 11 hours ago, [19:47:51] <spidey> what was with the armabot message?, [19:47:42] <spidey> phew, [19:47:37] <spidey> it hasn't happened yet?, [19:47:31] <spidey> ohhh, [19:47:07] <spidey> and 1 (6 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i take that as a yes
09:45 <guru3> time to research hayes modem commands
09:45 <wrtlprnft> so it's sunday now i guess?
09:46 <n54> perhaps in australia
09:46 <joda_bot> ok , let's lock sunday down
09:46 <n54> oh :)
09:48 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's wednesday on mars?
09:48 <n54> they don't have weekdays over there ;) (not yet at least)
09:49 <guru3> how do i get modems to not care about the carrier :/
09:50 <n54> hmm what is your goal guru3?
09:51 <guru3> two modems directly connected
09:52 <guru3> it's not going well
09:52 <joda_bot> guru3: use a nullmodem cable ?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
09:53 <n54> have you read http://www.linux.com/howtos/Modem-HOWTO-26.shtml guru3?
09:53 <guru3> joda_bot: that's serial
09:53 <guru3> not modem
09:53 <guru3> no
09:53 <guru3> haven't read that n54 
09:53 <n54> might help out
09:53 <joda_bot> modem != serial connected ?
09:54 <n54> there's a link in that how-to to another setup as well for older modems
09:54 <joda_bot> well perhaps you want to make call thourgh your home telephone system
09:54 <joda_bot> then I can understand why you would want to use two modems
09:54 <guru3> the problem is i have no dialtone
09:55 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:55 <n54> try setting ATX to blind dial but I reccommend reading beforehand :)
09:55 <guru3> it keeps complaining about carrier
09:57 <wrtlprnft> what?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> arma wants to create a dir /www-root on install?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> i decide what directories i want in my /, no program should make one there
10:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Sunday 20:00 GMT ?
10:03 <wrtlprnft> #g 20 -7
10:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 20 - 7 = 13
10:03 <wrtlprnft> that's 1PM, ok
10:03 <joda_bot> lol no, it's -5
10:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
10:03 <joda_bot> it's 22:00 for me
10:03 <joda_bot> MET
10:03 <wrtlprnft> 7 was MESZ <=> CDT
10:03 <joda_bot> right
10:03 <wrtlprnft> even better, so it's 3PM
10:03 <joda_bot> ;)
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'll write a Email to my team, if you happen to meet whatup tell him too
10:04 <wrtlprnft> so, err, anyone an idea how i can install arma locally?
10:04 <joda_bot> Because he did not send me an email yet
10:04 <joda_bot> huh 
10:04 <joda_bot> ?
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: where ?
10:04 <wrtlprnft> it wants to create a directory /www-root, and i refuse
10:05 <joda_bot> where did you install it into ?
10:05 <joda_bot> using root access ?
10:05 <wrtlprnft> even if i give it a --prefix in my /home and activate --disable-etc
10:05 <joda_bot> I usually just compile it and start it, where it is... or run it inside a user account without install
10:05 <wrtlprnft> I don't want a developlment version of arma installed in my system
10:05 <joda_bot> right ;)
10:06 <wrtlprnft> I do for testing, but the version i usually play with i install
10:06 <joda_bot> sounds like a makefile / configure problem
10:06 <joda_bot> I'm not any good with those
10:06 <wrtlprnft> wasn't there a few hours ago
10:07 <wrtlprnft> I like how different versions share the same ~/.armagetronad, that's why i make install
10:07 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: that also works with dev builds ... except debug versions 
10:07 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:08 <wrtlprnft> nope, they use a separate profile
10:08 <joda_bot> really ?
10:08 <joda_bot> hmm, never noticed
10:08 <joda_bot> always worked for me
10:08 <wrtlprnft> okok
10:08 <wrtlprnft> now i created that /www-root, reluctantly, and what did it put in there?
10:09 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/55564
10:09 <wrtlprnft> is that worth it?
10:10 <n54> no
10:10 <z-man-home> hehe
10:10 <z-man-home> maybe the merging messed something up there
10:10 <z-man-home> I'll go and check
10:10 <wrtlprnft> thanks
10:11 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Should the modified files not be shown in the RSS news feed / CVS history ?
10:11 <joda_bot> btw. is there a CVS spam message delivery from SF ?
10:11 <z-man-home> which feed? The CIA thing luke is managing
10:11 <z-man-home> CVS spam?
10:12 <joda_bot> I use this news feed: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/.rss
10:12 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: thanks for the link, that thing looks great :)
10:13 <z-man-home> www-root must have been broken during the merge, my pre-merge backup doesn't have the problem
10:13 <z-man-home> and the post merge does
10:14 <z-man-home> the installer probably uses an outdated directory name
10:15 <wrtlprnft> thanks for investigating :) I wanna get rid of that dir ASAP
10:15 <joda_bot> z-man-home: CVS Spam is a ruby script that generates HTML colored diffs of the code changes
10:16 <joda_bot> each changes size/line count can be limited
10:16 <joda_bot> I'll try to find it
10:16 <joda_bot> Probably someone with enough rights can add that to SFs CVSRoot of Armagetron
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/example-simple.html
10:17 <joda_bot> Example Email on Website
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/
10:18 <n54> that looks handy
10:21 <z-man-home> I'd say you all have write access to CVSROOT, but I recently restricted it to just me&tank when i restricted write access for SD
10:21 <guru3> gargh modems are enough to drive a man crazy
10:22 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: the www-root problem should be fixed now, it was just a missing variable assignment
10:24 <joda_bot> z-man-home: only works if SF allows sending of emails and if they have ruby support
10:24 <joda_bot> otherwise it won't work anyway
10:24 <z-man-home> I think email sending is allowed
10:24 <z-man-home> not sure about ruby
10:25 <joda_bot> there are also perl scripts out there for the job
10:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: works now, thanks
10:42 <guru3> well
10:42 <guru3> so much for that
11:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match was moved to Sunday, 3PM CDT... can you still be there?
11:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-010-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
11:05 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as joda_bot
11:08 <wrtlprnft> meriton has some nice stuff there :)
11:12 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what are you talking about ?
11:12 <joda_bot> missed something
11:12 <wrtlprnft> ttp://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3456
11:12 <wrtlprnft> imagine th h
11:12 <wrtlprnft> and the e
11:17 <joda_bot> z-man-home: should I be able to add myself to the avail list ?
11:17 <wrtlprnft> although the smooth scrolling is a bit weird... i like the old code more. but the cam is excellent
11:18 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Just added my self to CVSROOT avail list, I thought that should not be possible due to write restirctions ?
11:19 <joda_bot> I'm happy to remove myself, just wanted to know if block is working...
11:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I updated the 8th's wiki talk page to reflect 20:00 GMT tomorrow
11:22 <wrtlprnft> ok
11:22 <wrtlprnft> gotta get used to that new glancing :)
11:44 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
12:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> hi
12:39 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
12:47 <n54> hi lucifer
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13:25 <wrtlprnft> i can't reach the forums... again...
13:25 <wrtlprnft> the funny thing is that i can reach my server and my server can browse them just fine with elinks
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you here?
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> forums are responding for me
13:33 <GodTodd> yeah i'm here
13:33 <n54> same here, no problem with the forum just like the other day
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I don't think you'll have *problems* with math.  :)  Just, you know, the extra semesters can be frustrating
13:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i said my server can reach them just fine
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> also, I won't try to venture what the schools in your area organize their math classes.  Too much variance there
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> but I had to take a separate Trig class, and you know in Alamogordo I would've gone straight to calc without taking a trig class
13:34 <n54> oh so you weren't really asking - ok
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> and it was frustrating retaking math I'd already taken besides.  Not that I'm complaining too much, it was fun and I needed it, but it was an extra year's worth of classtime too
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> any idea what degree you're wanting?
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> heh, here's something weird.  At ACC, for any business major, you take College Algebra, then Business Calc I and 2
13:36 <GodTodd> yeah...i know what you're saying....just hoping for the best, ya know?  I think I've decided on EE
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> and you can transfer that as a block to UT.
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> But at UT, if you want any business major, you have to take Calc 1 and 2, *then* Business Calc 1 and 2
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> weird shit, if you ask me.
13:37 <GodTodd> lol...what they have there is a failure to communicate ;)
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wager UT business students are probably quite a bit better on the average than ACC business students.  :)
13:38 <GodTodd> i think that'd be a safe bet
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> all's I know is the College of Engineering wants a complete Calc sequence before you transfer, so I suspect their math classes aren't particularly compatible anyway.
13:38 <wrtlprnft> n54: well, i was wondering if anyone would have an idea what the reason could be ;)
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh, the other thing to consider is some of the core classes might only transfer in blocks.  LIke, from ACC to UT, History 1 doesn't transfer.
13:39 <GodTodd> i just have to make sure that anything i take at CCCC transfers pretty seamlessly to UTD
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> *But*, History 1 & 2 transfer as a 6-hour block
13:39 <GodTodd> yeah...that's the kind of stuff i need to find out
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> ask them for a sheet for the college of engineering that shows what transfers and what doesn't.  ACC gave me one for the UT College of Engineering
13:39 <GodTodd> yep...on the checklist :)
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> it lists all the required classes at UT that ACC offers in a transferable way.  :)
13:40 <GodTodd> also going to have to see what kind of credance they give my AAS
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> hm.  Generally, when pursuing another undergraduate degree, you just apply as an undergraduate and try to transfer the credits.
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> In that case, they'd ignore the AAS (except maybe if it was needed to weed out competitors and pick you--not a problem in community colleges)
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> but they'd look at GPA and the actual classes.  It's a non-Texas school, right?
13:41 <GodTodd> i know....i took a year at NMSUA....ended up with only Comp I transferring....then finished this latest degree....so hopefully some of the classes will apply
13:41 <GodTodd> yeah
13:42 <GodTodd> 3.289 GPA
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> I imagine you're safe with comp I.  :)  But here's something that's annoying
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> UT wants you to take Comp I and some literature class to get a BS/BA, right?
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> ACC provides those classes and they transfer!
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> But, at ACC, the Literature class has Comp II as a prerequisite.
13:42 <GodTodd> lol
13:42 <GodTodd> and not at UT?
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> So if I want to take the literature class at ACC, I have to take Comp II, which UT doesn't care about and will probably ignore anyway
13:43 <GodTodd> right
13:43 <GodTodd> that's academic thinkin' fer ya ;)
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> so I took comp 1, and I'll take the literature class at UT, when it's a weed out class.  :(
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> I'm considering using UT's distance learning program to squeeze out the literature class, but their program isn't covered by financial aid, so I'd have to pay up for it
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> ~$300
13:44 <GodTodd> ouch
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> dude, that's a steal!  :)
13:44 <GodTodd> hell...i'm just glad i can think about all of it now...i have residency :)
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> After I get my residency status changed, this 4-hour Calc 2 class I'm taking this summer is $400
13:44 <GodTodd> yeah...still expensive tho :P
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh, another thing.  These guys in this channel are pretty helpful.  :)  I think I got a whole letter grade higher on at least one test thanks to help found here.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> math, it has to be.  Lots of calc students here, though.
13:46 <GodTodd> cool :)
13:46 <GodTodd> i'm in a learning frame of mind lately....think the whole 'househusband' thing is starting to get to me.....teaching myself CSS now....need to get into school...heh
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> cabin fever, my wife calls it
13:47 <GodTodd> yeah...that :)
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> you got any new books for me to read?  I just ran out....  ;)
13:49 <GodTodd> lol
13:49 <GodTodd> i have two chapters each of two of them on my website...i'm holding back on more tho....none complete, however
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I could pick up another baen book, heh
13:54 <GodTodd> actually...i'll send you the one....i'm about 1/3 to 1/4th of the way through it....it just seems to have gone flat....can't pinpoint the problem....writer's blindness...it'll probably stick right out at you....
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> so no finished books?  Any book likely to be finished before I catch up with you?
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, ok.
13:57 <GodTodd> ok to send it in OOO 2 format? or what format do you prefer?
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's fine.  I'm running ooo 2 :)
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> and it has a palm export, iirc.  I seem to remember stumbling across it, anyway.
13:57 <GodTodd> cool...just wanted to check :)
13:59 <GodTodd> bah...i lied....i sent both that have stalled ;)
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  that's cool.
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> I've been devouring baen books lately, but it's a lot of military sci-fi and alternative history
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm looking around, like at school, and wondering where I'm going to get futuristic weapons to fight the alien invaders--if any should happen to show up
14:01 <n54> o.O
14:01 <GodTodd> lol
14:02 <GodTodd> i got one baen book at half price books....still have to read it....got a trip to Alamo coming up at the end of the month...probably read it then 
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not much else to do in that town.
14:05 <GodTodd> it's an honor harrington book
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> On Basilisk Station?
14:06 <GodTodd> no lie...i go there every now and again just to remind myself why i moved
14:06 <GodTodd> yeah
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how well the honor harrington books stand on their own, but OBS is the first one.  :)
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's a good book.
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, this summer, instead of making up a reason to go to Alamogordo, I decided to take calc 2 :)
14:06 <GodTodd> lol
14:07 <GodTodd> well...i have to make the rounds to show off Conor
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know how that goes.  :)
14:07 <GodTodd> made up that reason a few months ago ;)
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, the hit counter on the baen free library is over 3 million
14:09 <GodTodd> wow
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't even notice they had one, because I don't look at stupid stuff like hit counters.  :)
14:10 <GodTodd> lol
14:11 <wrtlprnft> i just can't get rid of gnome... it re-emerges without any reason if i try to update
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> Probably at least 1000 of those hits are me.  ;)
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> any reason you can't live with it?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> idealism?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> those are tem useless packages
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> bah.  it's a computer, who needs idealism?  ;)
14:12 <wrtlprnft> and everytime i do an emerge -e world those would get compiled as well
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> good behavior, manners, and ideals go out the window in favor of technology, don't they?
14:13  * Lucifer_arma gets all snobby whenever he looks at the baen free library
14:13 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> Is Andre Norton good?  My mom used to tell me so....
14:14 <GodTodd> not sure
14:14 <GodTodd> i hear mercedes lackey is
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, the books are free, can't hurt to check her out
14:14 <wrtlprnft> free? like Free?
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've looked over Mercedes Lackey's stuff, but it's all fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not sure how you mean, wrtl.  No DRM on them
14:15 <GodTodd> didn't she work with....oh what's her name....the Pern chick.....Anne McCafferey.
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> but, no creative commons licensing and stuff
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah she's fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, but Pern got really boring
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah it did
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I tried to read the one with the whales or dolphiins or whatever and got so bored I had to put it down
14:15 <GodTodd> but then so did Xanth
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> probably the fastest I've ever abandoned a book.
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried rereading any Xanth since you became an A-D-U-L-T?
14:16 <GodTodd> yeah
14:16 <GodTodd> tried being the operative word
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> was it still good?  heh
14:16 <GodTodd> it wasn't awful....but you have to be in a 'fart joke' mood
14:17 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> later wrtlprnft 
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is free, so I may as well try it.  I gave David Drake a try for the same reason, right?  Heh.
14:19 <GodTodd> hey...can't argue with free ;)
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> I am trying to balance it against buying the next 2 books in the Legacy of Alldenata series
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> how about Fred Saberhagen?  Ever read any of his stuff?
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> There was a guy....Chris?...back in junior high school that read all of his stuff
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> Hmmm, starts with an E?  You know the kid I"m talking about?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> lisp...braces...not the bassoon player
14:22 <GodTodd> i think so....never read saberhagen....didn't he have some series about a mouse or something?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> a mouse.  That sounds familiar.  not the Stainless Steel Mouse, right?  Different mouse?
14:22 <GodTodd> not sure
14:23 <GodTodd> just remember something about a mouse heh
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> the stainless steel mouse is someone else, and really good stuff to boot.
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't argue with free, I guess.
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> still, I'd prefer not to think I've wasted my time when I could've just picked up more of the alldenata books.  :)
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> the last honor harrington book I read didn't leave me wanting for more, so I'm kinda hoping philippe will show up so I can ask him what's up with it
14:24 <GodTodd> oh..saberhagen had the Book of Swords series
14:25 <GodTodd> that's right
14:25 <GodTodd> he lives in the Querqe too
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> how about Linda Evans?
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, not interested in book of swords.  Never was, really.  Heh.
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> the problem wth the chick writers is that they're so much more fantasy than anything else, and I'd rather just pass them up completely if that's the case
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice if someone would go through the baen free library with pointers.  Sometimes I'd rather read a summary of the book, even if the whole book is right there to read for free
14:33 <GodTodd> true
14:34 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8E52.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
14:36 <n54> no idea about that library you're talking about but I reccomend Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.baen.com/library/
14:43 <n54> thanks, might read some
14:55 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8E52.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
14:57 <n54> any favourites?
14:57 <n54> (I prefer hardish df)
14:57 <n54> sf*
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15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber is really good
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Eric Flint's fun
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> David Drake bored me, but you might give him a try.  his Tank Lord series is pretty popular, I understand.
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber's March Up* books are really good.  
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Of course, Honor Harrington, at least the first two.  I'm still not sure about the third...
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> and John Ringo's LEgacy of Alldenata series.  At least, the first two.  :)  I really enjoyed them both.  Well, the first was one of those "this is good but rough around the edges"
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> the second book, Gust Front, was really good and polished and stuff.
15:38 <n54> hmm I think I'll stick to short stories -- I'm too impatient :) -- but perhaps I'll look at it again later
15:50 <z-man-home> #later tell wrtlprnft what do you mean with "BUG the /msg code is broken again"?
15:50 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot err, no, that shouldn't be working.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot But we don't really want to restrict anyone, I just wanted to prevent accidents.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:56 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok
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16:11 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: ok
16:16 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:16 <ghableska> hi
16:17 <n54> hi :)
16:17 <ghableska> hi n54
16:18 <ghableska> ugh, it's freezing today
16:18 <n54> really?
16:18 <ghableska> yes
16:18 <n54> where were you from again?
16:18 <ghableska> US
16:19 <n54> northern state then?
16:19 <ghableska> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa
16:19 <ghableska> :)
16:20 <GodTodd> whereat in IA?
16:20 <n54> ah ok
16:20 <ghableska> des moines
16:20 <ghableska> #cnn 50265
16:20 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, IA is 50�F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Wind: NW at 17 mph (27 km/h).
16:20 <ghableska> brrr
16:20 <GodTodd> ahhhh....i lived in Omaha for a few years
16:20 <ghableska> cool
16:20 <GodTodd> not really...but...yeah
16:20 <GodTodd> ;)
16:20 <ghableska> or not..
16:20 <ghableska> nebraska is boring to drive through.....
16:21 <GodTodd> even more boring to live in
16:21 <GodTodd> lol
16:21 <ghableska> miles and miles of flatness
16:21 <GodTodd> not as boring as KS tho
16:21 <ghableska> really?
16:21 <GodTodd> really
16:21 <ghableska> hmm
16:22 <ghableska> *shrugs*
16:22 <ghableska> #lart Nebraska
16:22 <ghableska> aww
16:22 <n54> wow Iowa is indeed a very flat place according to wikipedia
16:22 <GodTodd> kinda chilly here today too....only 88
16:23 <ghableska> Lucky...
16:23 <ghableska> at least iowa has farms and stuff to look at...
16:23 <ghableska> whereas nebraska has tumbleweeds
16:23 <ghableska> lol
16:24 <n54> sounds sort of like denmark, also a very flat country
16:24 <ghableska> you're from norway, right?
16:24 <n54> yup
16:25 <n54> not so flat here (the danish call us "mountain monkeys") ;D
16:25 <ghableska> lol
16:25 <n54> :)
16:27 <ghableska> wow
16:27 <ghableska> a branch just flew off a tree and hit my window XD
16:27 <n54> windy+
16:27 <n54> ?*
16:27 <ghableska> gusts...
16:28 <ghableska> hasn't started raining (yet)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> danes = plains vikings
16:29 <ghableska> heh
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> I remember Ioway being hilly
16:32 <GodTodd> iowa and nebraska both have biggest cities that would barely rate as suburbs here :)
16:33 <ghableska> here=....?
16:33 <GodTodd> north TX
16:33 <ghableska> oh
16:33 <GodTodd> just up from Dallas
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's Dallas, come on
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> D/FW is just one big city now
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> with a few fields with cows thrown in for that country feel
16:34 <GodTodd> true...but we have to retain some of our own identity :D
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> you can try.  :)  Won't be too long before it's just one big city from San Antone all the way up to D/FW
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> it's already mostly urbanized, that drive
16:36 <GodTodd> i know
16:36 <GodTodd> hell...our side of dallas to the other side of CowTown is like 100 mi of straight city
16:38 <GodTodd> gotta go leave a dump
16:39 <n54> guess that explains why the rest of texas is pretty desolate? (according to a friend of mine)
16:39 <n54> /s/friend/aquaintance
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> only part of texas that's desolate is west texas, which is really just a fancy way of saying "New Mexico"
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
16:40 <n54> hmm ok :)
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> in my texas government class we were told that texas is 80% urbanized.
16:41 <n54> hmm
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> don't know for sure if they meant population or area in that figure
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, south of San Antonio (and the Brazos River, iirc, might be Nueces down there) and west of the hill country is pretty desolate
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> but that's only 1/3 or less of the state
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> the rest is lush, fertile land with little streams and rivers and stuff kinda webbed through it.  Can't drive more than 2 or 3 miles without driving over a low water crossing
16:43 <n54> must have meant population
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> except on the interstates, anyway, which are supposed to go over those things.  :)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, even the area I just described has El Paso in it, and that's one of the bigger cities in the state, bigger than Austin, even.
16:43 <n54> I meant desolate as in no people around (or barely any)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> not that Austin is a big city, heh.
16:44 <n54> for long stretches
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I haven't been in east TExas since I was very little, usually departing to the west or north when I leave the state
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> but there's plenty of people north, and plenty south (until you get near the border)
16:45 <n54> ok those guys were probably travelling along backroads anyways
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> west texas is, ummm..  It's a place I'd rather not drive my truck for fear of running out of gas between regular gas stations.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> signs on the interstate say "Gas 10 miles, next gas station 150 miles"
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> and the next gas station really is just that, a gas station.  Maybe with a little "museum" attached, but no little village or anything.
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> Jeez, even New Mexico has little villages around their gas stations, heh.
16:47 <n54> sounds great :)
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Wyoming is fun, though
16:48 <n54> how so?
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> there's a little valley surrounded by the continental divide in the southwestern corner of wyoming
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> The Rockies go through there, of course.  :)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> So in this little valley there's nothing but stagnant water, because none of the water flows out of the valley, and no water flows in.
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> In the middle of this valley is a gas station, and its literally the only thing in the valley.  Even the Ore Ida factory near there is outside the valley
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> 10000 feet up a mountain, I'm sure you can imagine the cost of moving significant resources to actually support people in the valley
16:49 <n54> hmm yeah
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and its desert, so there's no rain worth speaking of.  Just a big, stagnant pond.
16:50 <n54> sounds like a cesspool...
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I think that would be a perfect place to grow the algae to support a big biodiesel industry :)
16:51 <n54> hehe
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> land has to be cheap, right?  And the stagnant conditions are exactly what you want for algae-growing
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> refine it up there and move it down, energy to move up is minimal, you start with energy and then go down
16:51 <n54> I've heard of places in southern states than are dirt cheap
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, my wife and I talked about inventing moisture evaporators and moving out to west texas and becoming water farmers :)
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a billboard selling a pretty decent chunk of land for $99.
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> I said "Hey, I could build a moisture evaporator and then we can sell water, become a utility"
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> (use migrant farmers and we can live in the city :)  )
16:53 <n54> I'm sure you mean condenser but yeah :)
16:53 <GodTodd> specially when they get hydrogen fuel cells going good ;)
16:55 <n54> It's going to be clean coal, a norwegian company has recently cracked the problem
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yes, I actually mean condenser, but if I called it that, you wouldn't get the star wars reference
16:55 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:55  * n54 didn't get the Star Wars reference anyway :)
16:56 <GodTodd> always madness to your method, eh? ;)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> clean coal?  Um, isn't coal one of those finite resources?  Finite as in "we might actually run out of this one"?
16:56 <n54> well anything's finite depending on where you draw the line :)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> there's always the heat death of the universe in our future, after all
16:57 <n54> exactly :)
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> but we can actually run out of coal in the next hundred years or so
16:57 <n54> ?eah
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> so how does clean coal solve the problem?
16:57 <n54> some argue the same about uranium, I
16:57 <n54> 'm not worried
16:58 <n54> it's energy most western nations have themselves, that's part of what it solves
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  well, you won't get me arguing that uranium is sustainable for energy in the long run.
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm very interested in tapping into the biosphere for this stuff because it's renewable and has an indefinite supply, provided we don't ruin the balance required in the biosphere to keep the renewal process going
16:59 <n54> what stuff?
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> then we need only fear the heat death of the universe, but there's nothing we can do about it
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> energy.
17:00 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> See, the energy itself doesn't actually come from the biosphere, it comes from the sun.  But the algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and uses photosynthesis to separate the carbon from the oxygen
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> then it stores the carbon as oil, vegetable oil in fact.
17:00 <n54> sure I don't mind wind, water, solar whatever, but if I'm able to use coal cleanly I'll use that too
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which can be distilled into biodiesal
17:01 <n54> I'm not 13 :)
17:01 <n54> or 7 :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> wind and water, fine.  Solar has problems, not the least of which is the nasty process required to build the solar cells in the first place.
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> then there's the problem that the energy we get from solar cells is only a trickle compared to what's available.  The way I understand it, tapping plants for solar power is much more efficient.
17:02 <n54> most of the coal will burn sooner or later anyway (coal fires etc.) might as well use it sensibly
17:03 <guru3> for my birthday should i see about a new laptop or like a nokia 770?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> and we need something to electrolicize (sp?) the water into hydrogen and oxygen for the fuel cells
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> nokia 770, definitely.
17:03 <guru3> why?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> that thing's awesome
17:03 <n54> no idea guru3, I'd probably go for a laptop but I'm not you
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, I haven't gotten one yet, so I can't speak from experience.  :)
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> it runs python and Crimson Fields.  What more do you need from a pda?
17:04 <guru3> a keyboard :/
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> available, isn't it?
17:04 <n54> I've seen some nice roll'em-up pda keyboards
17:04 <guru3> i think you have to get something via bt
17:04 <guru3> but i mean this is the birthday/graduation present
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> bt?  bittorrent?  You have a link to a .torrent for a keyboard?
17:04 <guru3> so i could probably talk my parents into like a macbook pro
17:04 <guru3> bt -> bluetooth
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right
17:05  * Lucifer_arma was hoping for a downloadable pda keyboard
17:05 <n54> if the pda can work as a tape recorder it would be great for lectures
17:05 <guru3> i don't think it has a mic
17:05 <guru3> but you can play music streams
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> it should beat the hell out of a laptop for note-taking if you can get a keyboard for it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has a mic device, you'd have to buy the attachment though.
17:05 <guru3> i've read that http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ works with it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> don't know if it has a plug
17:06 <guru3> hmmm. the next version is supposed to support boip
17:06 <guru3> *voip
17:06 <guru3> so it must have a mic
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, the thing with laptops and school is mostly battery life.  If I didn't need my laptop for work, I'd be looking at getting a word processor, keyboard, printer, etc, for my pda
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'd still have had to plugin my pda last semester if I used it for note-taking.
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's only got about 3 hours of battery life
17:08 <guru3> hmm
17:08  * n54 likes his computers big and clunky, like refrigerators and such :D j/k
17:08 <guru3> heh
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> but if you could get your textbooks for it and a keyboard, what would you carry to class?  ;)
17:09 <guru3> i'd carry it anyway
17:09 <n54> a refrigerator or mini-bar?
17:09 <guru3> just like every day this year
17:09  * Lucifer_arma wants his textbooks for lecture classes on his laptop so he can grep it when the teacher asks questions
17:09 <guru3> i've had my palm, phone, and ipod on my belt
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> right.  And then a backpack or something, right?
17:09 <guru3> my mathbook has a cd with it in pdf format
17:09 <n54> nice
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, math books are no good for what I want, because I use old-fashioned pencil and paper for those classes anyway
17:09 <n54> not lugging books would be great
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> if it wasn't so much work to scan and OCR textbooks, I'd do all of them when I got them (except the math books, of course)
17:11 <n54> why not math books?
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> different kind of beast.
17:11 <n54> shouldn't be any worse than physics or chemistry imo
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> however, if the writing utensil on the Nokia 770 worked well enough, I'd gladly use it instead of pencil and paper for note taking
17:12 <guru3> aparently there is a mic
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> but I guarantee ou the writing utensil on my palm pda isn't good enough for that
17:12 <guru3> but it's also well hidden
17:12 <n54> if I had a recorder I would be very sparse on the notes
17:12 <guru3> and there's no recorder
17:13  * n54 suddenly finds himself lusting for owning a recorder lol
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> you can get a good recorder for pretty cheap
17:14 <n54> not like I would use it for anything wither lol :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've considered it, and I might actually do it soon
17:14 <n54> yeah... would be nice if it stored to usb though
17:14 <n54> in ogg! :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> the other thing I've considered is taking my digital camera to class and snapping off pics of the chalkboard during the lecture
17:14 <n54> lol that would not be distracting hehe
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> why ogg?  you don't need that kind of quality for a lecture :)
17:15 <n54> oh boy I wouldn't manage not kidding around with you if you were my pupil and did that lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> dude, if I went in there and did that with the camera, I guarantee you the idea would sweep the campus like wildfire
17:15 <n54> you're right it wouldn't have to be ogg
17:15 <guru3> i think that i shall ask for a 770
17:15 <guru3> i can't think of anything better
17:15 <n54> lol lucifer
17:15 <n54> either way have a happy birthday guru3 :9
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious!  There's so much stuff that appears in the lecture materials that people miss
17:15 <guru3> not for a couple weeks yet
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> graduation, isn't it?
17:16 <guru3> graduation & birthday are a week apart
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> ah
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> happy G&BDAY
17:16 <guru3> not yet
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> is labor day in there for you?
17:16 <guru3> don't jinx me :P
17:16 <guru3> no
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm....
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> any other days that start with L?
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> or T, for that matter?
17:17 <guru3> not that i know of
17:17 <n54> love parade day? (not real but... almost)
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, I just wanted to make it happy GLBT day
17:18 <guru3> you could make it then BL&T day
17:18 <guru3> bacon lettuce and tomatoe day
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:18 <n54> doesn't sound half bad :)
17:19 <n54> l?rdag starts with l but I guess that doesn't count ;)
17:19 <guru3> no it doesn't
17:19 <n54> :)
17:20 <guru3> it might be a thurs or tues day tho
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> I don't hate you for who you are.  I just hate you because it's Thursday.
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that would be a fun instant chat
17:22 <GodTodd> but it's saturday...
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> don't bother me with the facts!  You probably think it's White Boy Day
17:23  * Lucifer_arma <--- thinks True Romance is a great movie :)
17:23 <n54> if you hate me just because it's thursady I would be inclined to think you're female
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> I get accused of that a lot, actually, since verybody calls me Luci
17:24 <n54> well you know... at least we don't call you lucy :)
17:24 <GodTodd> hmm didn't even think of that ;)
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> and being black, and being gay
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm a gay black woman, apparently.
17:24 <n54> that's a good combo
17:24 <GodTodd> well those we knew :)
17:24 <n54> asl Lucy? j/k XD
17:25 <GodTodd> hey...run for president as the minority choice :D
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> sure
17:25 <n54> :)
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> think I can convince anybody I'm a gay black woman, besides arma punks?
17:25 <GodTodd> well...michael jackson tries to convince us he's a straight black man
17:25 <GodTodd> so anything's possible ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> we'd be crushed if we found out he was really a gay white woman
17:26 <n54> he's human? :O
17:26 <GodTodd> only person to be born a poor black boy and end up a rich white woman
17:26 <GodTodd> ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, he's making new inroads to civil rights
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> don't knock it
17:27 <n54> I wonder what messed up his life so bad
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> drugs, abuse, and a skin condition
17:27  * n54 has got a skin condition
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> now, sure, he's probably thrown a little extra money into plastic surgery along the way
17:27 <n54> perhaps I'm the new MJ?
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> along the lines of me asking the docter to throw in an extra stitch after my baby was born
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> you know, "since you're in there already...."
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> he's really got a skin condition.  But more importantly, wasn't it setting himself on fire that started the plastic surgery?
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> (my wife wasn't amused about the extra stitch joke, either)
17:29 <n54> I have absolutely no idea
17:29 <n54> I only know he was pretty decent around Thriller
17:29 <guru3> the 770 does look pretty juicy
17:29 <guru3> 3 hours of battery
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> that was after his recovery I think
17:29 <GodTodd> yeah..it was after that the pepsi torched him
17:29 <n54> acid pepsi?
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?  I thought he got torched before it
17:29 <GodTodd> not sure really
17:30 <n54> there's way too little baseball on european tv *grumbles* it's perfect out-of-my-timezone-late-night-tv :|
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson  <-- it was Thriller-era for sure
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> also, compare the pictures of him from a child to Thriller, and then to Bad
17:32 <GodTodd> yah...looks like the video was 83 and the pepsi thing was jan of 84
17:32 <GodTodd> same time roughly
17:32 <GodTodd> chicken/egg
17:32 <GodTodd> ;)
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> Although Jackson's skin color was a medium-brown color for the entire duration of his youth, his skin had been becoming paler gradually since 1982, and had become a light brown colour. This was now so noticeable the entire press, not just tabloids took out widespread coverage on it. Jackson attributed the changing skin color to vitiligo and denied rumors that he bleached his skin.[24] Another significant reason for the change in a
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> umber of surgeons' claims that Jackson has undergone multiple nasal surgeries as well as a forehead lift, thinned lips and cheekbone surgery[25], Jackson wrote in his 1988 autobiography Moon Walk that he only had two rhinoplastic surgeries and the surgical creation of a cleft in his chin, while attributing puberty and diet to the noticeable change in the structure of his face.[26]
17:35 <n54> he did a moon walk on his face
17:35 <n54> poor guy
17:37 <GodTodd> i dunno if it's natural or not....i just know that he's a hell of a lot lighter now than he was 25-30 years ago ;)
17:38 <n54> in ancient china women tied up their feet to make it look like they had small feet, in modern usa women butox their faces to make it look like they're grinning zombies XD
17:39 <GodTodd> i'm glad that my skin doesn't get paler....i've got a lot of danish blood in me...if i was any paler you'd thing i was an albino :D
17:39 <n54> :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, if n54 ever comes out of his house, he might stop looking like a viking ghost
17:40 <n54> I look like buddha :)
17:41 <n54> hey my uncle (seattle btw) has vitiligo! I just never knew the name for it
17:41 <Lucifer_arma> says Michael Jackson was diagnosed with it in 1983
17:42 <Lucifer_arma> the thing is, the 80s were pretty racist time, iirc.  And black people music had gotten quite a boost in the 70s.  The only people I remember accusing MJ of bleaching his skin were racist.
17:42 <n54> really?
17:42 <Self_Destructo> am I here?
17:42 <GodTodd> probably the KKK
17:42 <n54> no Sd you're not :)
17:42 <Self_Destructo> hehe
17:43 <GodTodd> are any of us really here?
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> and it had to be a disappointing thing to think that here was this really successful black guy, great dancer, great musician, all that stuff, he could do a lot for civil rights
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> you know, just by being successful
17:43 <n54> nope GodTodd ew're all illusions
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> then he starts turning white
17:43 <GodTodd> lol
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> so there's going to be some people saying "Look, he's just a poser".  I remember hearing the opposite claim, that he had always been white and dyed his skin to make money
17:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: does Van have CVS access?....
17:44 <Self_Destructo> is CVS even up?
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> then there's going to be people who fear black people having civil rights, so they go off with "he's bleaching his skin"
17:44 <GodTodd> hmmmm never heard the dying himself black thing before
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> cvs is up, you need a fresh checkout following new instructions
17:44 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:44  * n54 believes gun rights did more for civil rights than a lot of other stuff ref. Condolezza Rice's childhood
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> miht have just been a regional thing.  People wanted to think he sold out and that bleaching his skin was part of that
17:44 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: and where are new instructions?
17:44 <Self_Destructo> sorry, I've not been around
17:45 <guru3> good night ya'll
17:45 <n54> cya guru3 :)
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=110997
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> 'night guru3
17:45 <Self_Destructo> ty
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> basically, you use armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net for the machine now instead of the old name
17:46 <n54> enough about MJ let's talk Mick Jagger; is he half trout?
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> I don't care what he is, but he can wrap those sweet lips around my penis any time
17:47 <n54> puke
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:48 <n54> I think geriatrics should be banned from doing stageshows :S
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I think Mick Jagger should be excommunicated from the human race for having the perversity to pretend he's an artist with tht crap he spits out
17:49 <n54> that's an ok second
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> it's kinda pathetic when "I don't get no....gir-lee ac-shun" is the pinnacle of your creative ability
17:50 <n54> hehe yep
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> at least Britney Spears can claim she was duped
17:50 <n54> she's a clone without an original, it was thought to be impossible but it wasn't
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> ?  she's cut from Madonna, didn't you know?
17:51 <n54> oh another geriatric...whe should stop waering spandex
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> I agree with the spandex thing, but I think Madonna's still hot
17:51 <n54> she* wearing*
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> except in Evita
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> she's not hot in Evita
17:52 <n54> I don't really but she made a few good songs somewhere inbetween it all
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> look man, I got in trouble with my mom for watching a Madonna video, that makes her alright by me
17:52 <n54> hahaha
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that goes "In the midnight hour, I can feel your power".  Is it Like a Prayer?
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> so, my wife and I are driving in the car listening to the Chipmunks sing Express Yourself, right?
17:53 <n54> no idea, whatever the one was with black crows, and also the one with the sunrise, those were good
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> My wife says "You know they never made any new chipmunks after the 60s?"
17:53 <n54> hehe the chipmunks
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> *thwack*
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> she's a smart girl, but she can be pretty dim-witted sometimes
17:54 <n54> she meant it as in actually making chipmunks? :o
17:56 <n54> oh even worse...
17:56 <n54> I got it now
17:57 <n54> it's summer & my brain is made of silicon
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no new songs or cartoons.......
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> (had to give my son some medicine, he's got pneumonia)
17:58 <n54> ouch
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, poor kid :(
17:59 <n54> not too serious hopefully? would be in hospital if it was right?
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he'd be in a hospital if it was real serious.  He's on the couch watching bob the builder
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  So, last year my daughter got pneumonia, right?
17:59 <n54> heh I know that one "Builder Bob" 
17:59 <n54> ok
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> My sister in law came over to paint her room, then my wife gets a call from the school nurse and takes my daughter to the emergency room
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> where they diagnose the pneumonia
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> so my wife calls home, where my mother in law and sister in law are babysitting the other two kids (I was out at the time, but making my way home)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> and she tells them, so when I call, they tell me, and I'm on my way in, right?
18:01 <n54> I'm with you
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> When I get there, my sister in law is *still* painting my daughter's room
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> !?!?  wtf?  Paint fumes, pneumonia, it's not hard to understand.
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she threw a little attitude when I told her to stop.
18:01 <n54> hmm not sure, I thought pneumonia was almost always cold-related? as in temperature shifts and wetness
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she's still mad at me, I think.  :)
18:01 <n54> :)
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's fluid in the lungs
18:02 <n54> yes
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> to put it simply.  And usually starts with something else, like a cold or the flu or something.  Ear infection.  That sort of thing.
18:02 <n54> yup
18:02 <GodTodd> luckily i don't have a sister in law ;)
18:03 <n54> I've had one once, she was a better person than the x-gf
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  More specifically, you don't have a stupid stuck up conceited aristocratic sister-in-law
18:03 <n54> nope sure don't
18:03 <GodTodd> tomaytoe--tomahtoe
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I'm saddled with.  My wife's working class family acts like aristocracy, but her family that actually is aristocracy acts like working class.  It's very strange.
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I've just got my expections reversed
18:04 <GodTodd> sounds very....dysfunctional ;)
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
18:04 <n54> no it's perfectly normal :)
18:04 <n54> real posh never is posh
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> on her father's side they're real American aristocracy, family came to america with the pilgrims and all, and can trace their lineage to British nobility
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> on her mother's side, they're mostly white trash, but across the board they pulled themselves up, so they're mostly self-made people
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> weird stuff.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> but what do I know?  I'm just a simple peasant.  :)
18:05 <GodTodd> then there's your side ;)
18:06 <n54> ah "self-made" has a tendency to include "sickly arrogant snobbery" not as a rule but often
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'm improperly labeling more of her family bad than I should.  It's mostly her mom and sister and a few cousins and aunts, really.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> she's got a couple of aunts, an uncle, and a coupe of cousins that are downright wonderful people
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> but it only takes one bad apple....blahblahblah
18:07 <GodTodd> self made usually leads to delusions of grandeur in that you think you're better than others because you raised out of the squallor and made something of yourself....usually leads to bitterness and egotism because 'nobody gave me nothin' and I made it anyways' ;)
18:07 <GodTodd> not always but as a general rule
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, hmm. chicken and egg.  Were you bipolar before, is that why you became successful?  Or did you become bipolar as a result of becomin successful?
18:08 <n54> yeah it seems like that has a tendency to happen, but I should say anything at all really as I'm an ultimate loser myself :)
18:08 <n54> lol
18:08 <n54> shouldn't*
18:08 <GodTodd> yep....chicken/egg....although we all know the egg came first :P
18:08 <GodTodd> lol
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> nah, you're just another army kid that got fucked over and lied to by his government
18:09 <n54> right egg did come first, it's really the only logical answer
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> loser implies the actual intent
18:09 <n54> who me?
18:09 <GodTodd> dinosaurs laid eggs
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> yeah you
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> didn't you say the ME or whatever more than likely came from some inoculation they forced on you during your forced service?
18:10 <n54> you've got it wrong :) (btw I still am an officer)
18:10 <n54> no it was before that
18:11 <n54> and there's no real substantial evidence yet as to the inoculation having a connecting, just the most likely explanation
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> ?  didn't you say only army personnel were at risk over this incident?  Or was it really something they hit kids in general with?
18:11 <GodTodd> hmmm...i knew some pretty cut and dried losers in HS that i'm pretty sure didn't intend it that way....
18:11 <n54> no sorry we must have mixed something up if you think so
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know that I need substantial evidence to believe something.  :)  People believe crazy things on a lot less than "most likely explanation"
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably just mixed up.  :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I think I was studying when you were telling the story, so only paying part attention
18:12 <n54> it's ok I think I mentioned those two things together but not intending for there to be a direct link (because there really is non)
18:12 <n54> none*
18:13 <n54> anyway I stopped wotking there for a reason so I don't particularily mind (damned hobo army full of idiots) - still have friends there though
18:14 <n54> typing isn't my thing today it seems - sorry :S
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Todd, there's a kid at my school that looks and walks just like you'd expect a 31-year old Jason McWhirter to look and walk
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's spooky.  I keep expecting him to walk up to me and say "Did you find my game yet?"
18:14 <GodTodd> blah....grew up around too many damned military people....;)
18:14 <GodTodd> lol
18:14 <n54> bad conscience?
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> probably, heh
18:15 <GodTodd> didn't he get busted for credit card fraud a few years ago?
18:15 <n54> you nicked it?
18:15 <GodTodd> wonder if he thinks his mom's still a virgin heh
18:15 <n54> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, ummm, I borrowed it.  Right?  Then he did something, I forget, pissed me off, and I was a spiteful little brat
18:15 <n54> figures ;)
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> arranged to meet him somewhere and give it to him, when he didn't show up, I set it on the table and left
18:15 <GodTodd> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> and it disappeared, nobody knows what happened to it
18:15 <n54> the aliens ate it
18:16 <GodTodd> he tried getting me busted on local bbses around there once
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> but for like 2 months, everytime he saw me he'd ask me where it is
18:16 <n54> he probably has it at home
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> he was a nice kid, really, but he was one of those kids who got treated badly for being dumb and generally looking and acting like a ummm
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> what's the word
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> defective person, that's it
18:17 <GodTodd> defective....hmmmm....very.....diplomatic :)
18:17 <n54> I guess he meant retard
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was odd that he only ever talked about one set of grandparents.
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, he was more functional than "retard" implies
18:18 <n54> oh ok
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> and loyal as hell.
18:18 <GodTodd> that game wasn't Battle Chess was it?
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't even remember what it was.  I didn't even want to borrow it, but he loved it and wanted me to see it.
18:18 <GodTodd> yeah...he was loyal....didn't care really how anyone treated him....was kinda sad really
18:18 <n54> heh I recently dl'ed battle chess out of nostalgia, it's didn't really stand up to the memories
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha, no, turns out battle chess was a pretty sucky game, doesn't it?
18:19 <n54> absolutely
18:19 <GodTodd> haven't played it in years
18:19 <GodTodd> lol
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> check out UAE, the Unworking AMiga Emulator
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> then you have to google for disc images, but they're out there
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> got silent service II on my hard drive here :)
18:20 <n54> I found it as a torrented ms exe, tiny thing
18:20 <GodTodd> unworking, huh?
18:20 <GodTodd> ;)
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, it works now.  obviously it got the name before it worked.
18:20 <GodTodd> obviously
18:20 <GodTodd> :D
18:21 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> there's a pretty good archon clone for Linux
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda like to see an openGL-based archon clone.  I'll be we could use arma to build one.  :)
18:22 <n54> hmm since you two obviously are about my age; do you remember the name of a game that was based on changing the color of lines of a grid by moving "you"? might have been on a spectrum but I'm not sure and haven't found anything through google
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> qix?
18:22 <n54> no that's the "uncovering" game isn't it?
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> was it where you had to section off a game grid that contained a weird line pattern that moved around and electrocuted you?
18:23 <n54> nope
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> platform?
18:23 <n54> I think spectrum but I'm really not sure
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> if it was a PC game with no amiga/c64 version, I don't know
18:23 <n54> ok
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, spectrum
18:23 <n54> only played it in a store you see and I was too small to worry about names
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> is that one of the european computers that never made it to the US?  :)
18:24 <n54> hmm possibly although it would surprise me slightly
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, arcade game?
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> did it use a trackball?
18:24 <n54> tv
18:24 <n54> joystick
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> might have been based on an older arcade game whose name escapes me
18:24 <n54> must have been early 80ies
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> one of the original vector graphics games, predecessor to star wars
18:25 <n54> no worries, just had to ask, had a coworker who knew what it was and digged up some obsolete c code for it but I'e lost it years ago and forgot the name
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> it had a paddle and a trackball version in the arcade, but I think its clones were joystick-based
18:25 <n54> actually I don't think it was vector but it was extremely simple
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> Tempest
18:26 <n54> just a grid and two moving dots (you and an enemy) and you had to recolor the grid by moving along it without getting caught
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like tempest
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=T&game_id=10065
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> scroll down a ways to screenshots
18:28 <n54> nope sorry :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, don't know then, sorry
18:29 <n54> no problem :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> is it more similar to the dots game you play on paper?
18:29 <n54> hmm not sure what game you're referring to
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> a grid of dots, each turn you get to draw one line.  When you close a box, you put your initials in the box
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> when the grid is full, the one with the most boxes wins
18:30 <n54> nope
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> I played a game that's similar to what you described, derived from the dots game, on the c64 a long time ago
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> my brother and I used to play it together a lot.  You'd go around the edge of the square, then you hit the button and point the joystick in a direction and go
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> out in the middle, right?
18:31 <n54> yeah it might have been c64 since the coworker dug some code up
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> then the game would send enemies to attack you, and you need to get back to the safe part.  If you go back on your trail, you die, so you get back to the safe part a different way
18:31 <n54> uhh no that doesn't sound like tit to me
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> in the process tracing a polygon in the square.  When closed, it's colored with your color
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's also a qix derivative :)
18:32 <n54> only the lines shift color and it's a quadratic grid and you can follow the grid in any direction (where you'e travelled the color changes)
18:33 <n54> fill all with your color and you get a new level
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember such a game.  I've just given you the line-drawing games I can remember.  :)
18:33 <n54> no problem :)
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> might find it on the list of video games site I linked, though
18:34 <n54> yeah I've looked but no luck so far, started googeling c64 stuff
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> I really want to make arma play like Ebonstar :)
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that site's just coin-operated video games :(
18:37 <n54> yup
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.lemonamiga.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php%3Fid%3D1563
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, that's a tron font!
18:38 <n54> never played that one
18:39 <n54> I can make tons of fonts like that ;)
18:39 <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> that was an awesome game
18:39 <n54> but yeah it's nice
18:39 <Self_Destructo> can anyone translate that?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> german?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> #list google
18:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
18:39 <n54> attack-something can not attack the world/be? ----
18:39 <Self_Destructo> I'm guessing, I don't know
18:40 <n54> something you hear point-something of attackers
18:40 <Self_Destructo> n54: it would be something of that sort
18:40 <n54> I don't really know any german so :s :D
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> no germans active atm
18:40 <Self_Destructo> nope
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe he'll answer, maybe he won't, heh
18:41 <n54> I can use my dictionary if you want to
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft 
18:41 <Self_Destructo> Attack goal cannot be attacked, because of to high score of the aggressor.
18:42 <Self_Destructo> ok, I got it
18:42 <Self_Destructo> :)
18:42 <n54> ah
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know what that means too :)
18:42 <n54> I should learn german
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> fick mich
18:42 <n54> lol
18:42 <Self_Destructo> kinda dumb for one little phrase to be in german when the whole rest of the site is in english
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:43  * n54 thinks luci is a eastern german prostitute that married herself to a greencard :P
18:44 <GodTodd> din din time :)
18:44 <n54> din din+
18:44 <n54> ?*
18:45 <Self_Destructo> din din = a childish way of saying dinner time
18:46 <n54> ah ok
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> gay black east german prostitute, that is
18:50 <n54> you would be surprised at how common that is! XD
18:50 <n54> j/k :)
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Self_Destructo.  He's got small kids in his house and he's still in newlywed mode
18:52 <n54> lucky him :)
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I need a zone that applies acceleration due to gravity to game objects
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> then I need a death zone, smaller, that I can put in the middle
18:53 <n54> for the ebonstar thingy?
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that does acceleration needs to render as a warped funnel in the grid floor, and the death zone should fit inside the bottom of the funnel
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> then a game object that is a ship, takes light cycle controls but applies them differently
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> break is thrust, and turn commands just spin it, like asteroids controls
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> and a fire button.  That's it.
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> um, the shots need to bounce whoever they hit, and there can only be one shot per player at a time.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> the idea, then, is to use the shots to push the other players into the hole.  The last man standing is the winner.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> I think you got points for hits, too.  Hmmm, don't remember victory conditions exactly.
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> it ws a cool game, though.  If you aimed well, you could slingshot a shot around the ebonstar and hit someone on the other side :)
19:11 <n54> hah I found it!  but I'm positive I must have played an earlier version (no way it was on dos) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapper
19:13  * n54 doesn't remember the encosed rectangles lighting up
19:14 <n54> enclosed*
19:16 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I need the two files for the rotator again...
19:22 <wrtlprnft> okok, where do i start?
19:22 <wrtlprnft> #last --with Angriffsziel
19:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [18:39:26] <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
19:22 <wrtlprnft> Target (of the attack) can't be attacked bacause of the enemie's too high score
19:23 <Self_Destructo> hrm
19:24 <Self_Destructo> the translater made it sound like my score was too high, not thiers
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man-home never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> their score is too high, definitely
19:24 <wrtlprnft> uh, what two files?
19:24 <wrtlprnft> they are all in CVS
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, found a disk image for ebonstar finally :)
19:25 <wrtlprnft> and Vanhayes doesn't have CVS access, but it looks like anonymous CVS is up and running again, so he can use that
19:25 <wrtlprnft> hope that's it :)
19:26 <n54> :)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> interesting conversations about "K�sek�stchen" there
19:26 <wrtlprnft> K�sek�stchen = German name for the game you were talking about
19:29 <n54> hmm I see two ?'s
19:29 <n54> ebonstar or gapper?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> those are a with two dots over them
19:29 <n54> thank you :)
19:29 <n54> K?sek?stchen?
19:30 <n54> what does it mean? :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> Kasekastchen, but with .. over the a's
19:30 <n54> ok I got it right then :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, something like cheese boxes, if you translate it word by word
19:31 <n54> strange name :)
19:31 <Self_Destructo> wrtl,tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x16faf): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17da9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:32 <Self_Destructo> same error as last time
19:32 <Self_Destructo> and you gave me 2 files, IIRC
19:32 <wrtlprnft> you need to make a new checkout using the new server
19:32 <Self_Destructo> er....
19:32 <n54> found a screenshot but it's obciously the dos version and not the one I played
19:32 <n54> http://www.dosgamezone.com/gapper/
19:32 <Self_Destructo> i did do a total download of the CVS all over again
19:33 <wrtlprnft> do you have a src/tron/gRotation.cpp?
19:33 <Self_Destructo> arg
19:33 <Self_Destructo> nvm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> umm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> it's not been added to the project
19:33 <wrtlprnft> you need to tell codeblocks to compile it though
19:33 <wrtlprnft> then add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> i can't add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> we need one of joda or z-man to do that
19:34 <Self_Destructo> send them a note then, please
19:36 <wrtlprnft> #later tell joda_bot can you add src/tron/gRotation.* to the codeblocks project file and commit? I don't know how to do that and Self_Destructo can't committ
19:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:36 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: well, you can add the files locally i guess, you just won't be able to committ the changes
19:37 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got it
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that's an awesome game
19:38 <n54> gapper?
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> ?  oh, ummm, ebonstar
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> finally found a disk imge of it
19:38 <n54> hehe :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> install uae and I can give you a kickstart rom and a disk image and you can see it for yourself
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, gotta go make dinner
19:38 <n54> cya :)
19:38 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:42 <wrtlprnft> spidey: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:42 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:45 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: maybe
19:47 <wrtlprnft> we need some kickass players for that...
19:48 <wrtlprnft> ota, spidey, Self_Destructo, me, and someone else, ee or miro and we might have a chance
19:49 <spidey> wrtl,what's that central time?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> GMT-5
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 13:00GMT
19:50 <wrtlprnft> no
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 15:00GMT
19:50 <spidey> i'm not good with time zones
19:50 <wrtlprnft> me neither
19:50 <spidey> you know when it is eastern time?
19:50 <spidey> they're +1 hour 
19:50 <wrtlprnft> summer or winter time?
19:50 <spidey> ummm
19:51 <spidey> summer
19:51 <spidey> shit
19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:51 <wrtlprnft> better
19:51 <spidey> how many hours?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> that's my time
19:51 <spidey> lol
19:51 <n54> lol :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/09/home-defense/
19:51 <wrtlprnft> 19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:52 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:52 <spidey> :p
19:52 <spidey> is it day or night time?
19:52 <wrtlprnft> uh
19:52 <wrtlprnft> evening
19:52 <spidey> k
19:52 <wrtlprnft> you can se that from the 19:51 :D
19:53 <spidey> like i said,i'm not good with times :p
19:53 <wrtlprnft> I've heard some people here call 24h format "military time"
19:53 <spidey> i wouldn't know what time it was my-time if there wasn't a clock in every room
19:53  * wrtlprnft has a watch on 24/7
19:53 <n54> 24hrs time is the only time :)
19:54 <wrtlprnft> and, uh, on my screen there are 5 clocks visible right now
19:54 <n54> :)
19:54 <spidey> i have 1 on my screen
19:54 <wrtlprnft> but one is from my server in munich, so it shows the local time there
19:54 <spidey> and it's usually wrong
19:54 <wrtlprnft> let's see
19:54 <spidey> cmos going out :<
19:54 <n54> I'd like more than one but haven't figured it out on kde
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is in this terminal window from the screen session
19:54  * n54 hasn't really tried either
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is getting displayed by IRSSI session in its status line
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is next to the last chat line
19:55 <spidey> question
19:55 <spidey> why you need so many clocks? lol
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is on the kicker bar, and it's saying fancy things like "Five to eight"
19:55 <wrtlprnft> and one is in the screen session i have running on my server and am accessing over SSH
19:55 <n54> I'd like to have to avoid having to do maths to figure out other timezones :)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> there is no real need for them, they're just kinda unavoidable
19:56 <wrtlprnft> IRSSI needs that status line anyways, so why not put a clock there?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> and screen has one as well for convienience (tabs) and there's enough space for a clock
19:56 <spidey> wrtl,so the match is in 24hours right?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> no
19:56 <spidey> >.>
19:57 <wrtlprnft> there's 2 matches now
19:57 <wrtlprnft> one is tomorrow
19:57 <spidey> k
19:57 <wrtlprnft> let me calculate the time
19:58 <wrtlprnft> one is in 19 hours
19:58 <spidey> k,sec
19:58 <wrtlprnft> and the other one is in exactly four days
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 4*24
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 4 * 24 = 96
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 96 hours
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 96-19
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 96 - 19 = 77
19:58 <spidey> so
19:58 <wrtlprnft> or 77 hours after the match tomorrow
19:58 <spidey> 4pm my time
19:58 <spidey> ?
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> 'er
19:59 <spidey> ye
19:59 <spidey> aa
19:59 <spidey> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> to many damn timezones >.>
19:59 <spidey> i'll try to be awake by then :s
20:02 <Self_Destructo> umm, who won today?
20:02 <spidey> 0:08:41
20:02 <spidey> 	A hostile fleet from NeoSheikZ write message from planet Dream Killer [3:453:6] is approaching planet Cyborg [3:459:5]. Its mission is: Attack.
20:02 <spidey> :<
20:02 <spidey> 8 minutes
20:02 <spidey> :s
20:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: noone won yet
20:05 <wrtlprnft> match is tomorrow 3PM CDT
20:05 <Self_Destructo> ah
20:05 <wrtlprnft> you can come?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> it moved :)
20:06 <spidey> who's it against wrtl?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> first one is against 8T, second one AW
20:06 <spidey> you got a link as to who's in 8T?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> the 8T one is just for fun, it doesn't count for the spoon
20:07 <spidey> k
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from jota_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6647 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from joda_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6648 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> blah
20:07 <spidey> k,well i'ma need practice for the AW,i been playing soldat to much :<
20:07 <spidey> alot of practice
20:07 <spidey> heh
20:07 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Talk:8th_Team#Availability_Match_vs._MBC
20:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey: wanna go sumo/fortress?
20:09 <wrtlprnft> my browser tab bar now has 6 rows... something is telling me i have too many tabs open
20:09 <spidey> sure,gimme 1 minute,i'm getting attacked on ogame
20:09 <spidey> lol
20:09 <spidey> 6rows? lol
20:09 <wrtlprnft> tell me when/where :D
20:09 <spidey> i rarely get more than 7 tabs
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol, my normal is 22
20:10 <wrtlprnft> rows or tabs?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> never had multiple rows
20:10 <wrtlprnft> 31 tabs right now and growing
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:10  * wrtlprnft is doing too much multitasking
20:10 <Self_Destructo> umm
20:10 <n54> too much porn! :D j/k
20:11 <Self_Destructo> 35 tabs and can't open any more
20:11 <spidey> wtf
20:11 <Self_Destructo> no such thing as multiple rows in firefox i guess
20:11 <spidey> sd....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> 14 are tron related in some way
20:11 <spidey> tell me what this means sd
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <spidey> someone attacked me right?
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> .....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> .........
20:11 <wrtlprnft> aww, no pattern?
20:12 <Self_Destructo> .................................................................................................................................................................................................
20:12 <spidey> ok i sent them a message saying i sent everything off and to attack would be useless
20:12 <Self_Destructo> a dotted line
20:12 <spidey> so when it says they attacked
20:12 <Self_Destructo> I'm running outta dots
20:12 <Self_Destructo> gota get another bag
20:12 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:12 <spidey> nothing happened,no message,nothin
20:12 <spidey> :/
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <Self_Destructo> heh, wierd
20:13 <spidey> ohh
20:13 <spidey> i refreshed to fast
20:13 <spidey>  The attacker has won the battle!
20:13 <spidey> He captured
20:13 <spidey> 12 metal, 6 crystal, and 0 deuterium
20:13 <spidey> The attacker lost a total of 60000 units.
20:13 <spidey> The defender lost a total of 2782000 units.
20:13 <spidey> At these space coordinates now float 12000 metal and 12600 crystal. 
20:13 <wrtlprnft> what would you want with 2H?
20:13 <wrtlprnft> *to do
20:15 <Self_Destructo> Points	17796 (Rank 1790 of 5989)
20:15 <spidey>  Points	16103 (Rank 1842 of 5989
20:15 <wrtlprnft> dang opera crashed after 4 days...
20:15 <spidey> i imagin that'll go down once the defense losss takes affect
20:15 <wrtlprnft> i wanted to break my record of a week :(
20:16 <n54> yeah, seems to me opera doesn't like having lots of tabs open
20:16 <spidey> heh,i got 11 IPM's
20:16 <spidey> i think i'll just direct them to that guy instead
20:17 <wrtlprnft> well, it did just fine for a long time
20:17 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:17 <wrtlprnft> and it's a beta, so i don't expect perfectness
20:17 <Self_Destructo> i got 10
20:17 <Self_Destructo> all i can hold
20:17 <Self_Destructo> 20 anti's
20:18 <spidey> http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=88101#88101
20:18 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: the longest I've ever had windows open at one time is something around 10 days
20:18 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 255 $ uptime                                                   ~ 20:18:46 up 7 days, 18 min, 13 users,  load average: 0.24, 0.17, 0.12
20:19 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ uptime                                                       ~ 03:19:10 up 22 days,  3:25,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
20:19 <spidey> k wrtl,fortress?
20:19 <wrtlprnft> kk
20:19 <spidey> cya there
20:24 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:24 <ghableska> hi
20:25 <n54> hi again :9
20:25 <ghableska> :)
20:25 <ghableska> it's quiet....
20:25 <ghableska> ;)
20:25 <n54> you somehow miss a lot of the talking
20:26  * ghableska goes deaf
20:26 <n54> yikes lol
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> that was convenient.  Kubuntu has a package for UAE :)
20:27  * n54 hands out earplugs
20:27 <ghableska> :)
20:27 <Self_Destructo> hi
20:27 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:27 <ghableska> hi
20:28  * n54 wonders if the makers of UAE happens to be from UAE and that if so it explains UAE being named UAE :)
20:28 <ghableska> o_0
20:28 <n54> :D
20:29 <n54> would be funny :)
20:29 <ghableska> very
20:31  * Self_Destructo is printing a 650 page book
20:31 <n54> :o
20:31 <ghableska> what book?
20:31 <Self_Destructo> a C++ book
20:31 <Self_Destructo> the only time i get to read it will be at home
20:32 <n54> gah I've done stuff like that, if it hadn't been at work I would ahve been better off just buying it
20:33 <Self_Destructo> same here
20:33 <Self_Destructo> i just buy the paper and take it to the printer and they bind it...
20:34 <Self_Destructo> make it worth it
20:34 <n54> oh
20:34 <Self_Destructo> makes*
20:35 <Self_Destructo> 650 peices of paper is hard to keep in order unless it's bound ;)
20:35 <n54> i used what's-it-called... binders? no hmm
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got one...
20:36 <n54> you know the stuff you punch holes in the paper to use
20:36 <n54> is it binders?
20:36 <Self_Destructo> kinda hard to punch all the holes into it though
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yes
20:36 <n54> oh... and yes :)
20:37 <Self_Destructo> easier for them just to get a big punch an punch all 650 sheets st the same time
20:37 <n54> yeah
20:37 <Self_Destructo> and they'll cover it
20:37 <n54> and probably print on both sides of the paper etc.
20:37 <Self_Destructo> nah, I'm doing the printing :)
20:38 <n54> hehe ok
20:38 <Self_Destructo> and yes, i do print on both sides :)
20:38 <n54> it's going to be a monster lol
20:38 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:38 <Self_Destructo> man it is getting hot in here
20:38 <Self_Destructo> the laser printer puts off alot of heat
20:38 <n54> :)
20:39 <Self_Destructo> 500 sheets of paper is app. 3 inch thick, lol
20:39 <n54> yeah at least
20:40 <n54> some of the monster manuals I've come across had ultrathin paper 
20:40 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:41 <Self_Destructo> if I could have found thinner paper I would have gottne it, but I couldn't
20:44 <n54> yeah I don't think it's easily available
20:44 <n54> I've never found it at least
20:54 <Self_Destructo> well, the printer would have a hard time picking it up too, I'm sure
20:55 <n54> yeah
20:55 <n54> I wonder how those kinds of paper are printed anyways, guess it must be some special stuff they use
20:56 <Self_Destructo> probably
20:59 <Self_Destructo> wow, what a book!
21:00 <n54> :D
21:04 <Self_Destructo> 50 more odd pages to print
21:04 <Self_Destructo> then do the even side :)
21:05 <spidey> my fridge is so cold,the coke is like a slushy
21:06 <n54> lol spidey
21:06 <spidey> seriously
21:06 <spidey> i didn't even have to put ice in it
21:06 <spidey> it was already in it xD
21:07 <Self_Destructo> lol
21:07 <Self_Destructo> i think you need to turn it up then
21:09 <n54> this one is for armabot :) http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
21:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:16 <Self_Destructo> GRRRRRRRRR
21:16 <Self_Destructo> i got a paper jam
21:16 <n54> rawr?
21:17 <n54> yeah you're bound to have a few of those
21:20 <Self_Destructo> kinda puts a kink in the smoothness
21:21 <n54> yup
21:31 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: wow 600 pages... that's a lot
21:31 <wrtlprnft> I kinda read through it while programming my stuff
21:32 <wrtlprnft> probably a bad idea since i ended up reorganizing everytime i found out some new "gimmik" of c++
21:32 <n54> both ways are good imo, it takes time to digest any way you do it
21:32 <wrtlprnft> and i still know what a factory is and didn't find a good tutorial
21:34 <wrtlprnft> *And i still don't know
21:34  * wrtlprnft should dropping words
21:34  * wrtlprnft should stop dropping words
21:35 <n54> I've never heard of factory in relation to code either
21:35 <n54> :D wrtlprnft
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern
21:36 <n54> thanks
21:36 <wrtlprnft> but that seems to be java, not c++
21:36 -!- spidey [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:37 <n54> yes
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://gsraj.tripod.com/design/creational/factory/factory.html
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that one looks promising
21:39 <wrtlprnft> which adds another tab of stuff i wanna read one day
21:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: yeah, it's big
21:39 <Self_Destructo> i can't stand to read a book on the computer
21:39 <Self_Destructo> dad does it all the time though
21:40 <wrtlprnft> i kinda read it in many small chuncs
21:40 <wrtlprnft> if i sat in front of a school computer and was bored i would just read a chapter of it
21:41 <n54> still java, perhaps it isn't relevant to other oo languages?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> if the librarian wasn't looking i printed it out and read it in class :D
21:41 <n54> sometimes I hate reading on the computer, sometimes I don't
21:41 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec, that's java? 
21:41 <wrtlprnft> oops
21:41 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
21:41 <n54> :)
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it appeared in a search term that contained c++, so i just assumed it was c++
21:42 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern#Uses_of_Factory_Method
21:42 <wrtlprnft> > In Qt, QMainWindow::createPopupMenu is a factory method declared in a framework which can be overridden in application code.
21:42 <wrtlprnft> so it has to be relevant for c++ somehow
21:42 <n54> mm yeah
21:42 <wrtlprnft> but that linked page doesn't say a lot to me
21:43 <wrtlprnft> which is understandable, it's just source doku
21:43 <wrtlprnft> or API doku
21:43 <n54> or it could be it's just called something else, sometimes that's the case I guess
21:44 <wrtlprnft> I think I have an idea how you'd do that in c++, but i don't see a real use
21:44 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to read that java page after all :(
21:44 <n54> seems reuse-focused to me but well I don't really know
21:45 <n54> might simply be rare :)
21:45 <wrtlprnft> might appear useless to me because it doesn't solve the problem i still have in my mind and didn't find an appropiate solution yet
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://my.opera.com/tarquinwj/homes/albums/45511/1IE4.png
21:46 <wrtlprnft> IE4 and acid2... looks interesting
21:46 <Self_Destructo> crap
21:46 <Self_Destructo> somehow it got ten pages off
21:46 <wrtlprnft> well
21:46 <wrtlprnft> read them on- screen
21:47 <Self_Destructo> well, it's easy 345 flip over 356 :)
21:48 <Self_Destructo> I'm not sure how it woulda got mixed up though :/
21:48 <wrtlprnft> have fun with your book :D
21:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, it looks like it is going to be intertaining :)
21:49 <n54> had no idea Konqueror passes acid2, perhaps I should switch to it
21:49 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:50 <wrtlprnft> opera 9B1 does too :)
21:50 <n54> yeah I might use that on the windows box
21:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, and some post-2.0 branch of firefox does, but it's horribly messed up
21:51 <n54> ok I doubt I'll try that then ;)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/#mozilla
21:54 <n54> hopefully it wont be too long then
21:55 <n54> one day perhaps I can enjoy making compliant webpages again :)
21:56 <wrtlprnft> well, the real obstacle is IE
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ah, there we go
21:57 <wrtlprnft> stupid gaim is having all those stupid dependencies
21:57 <wrtlprnft> gone
21:57 <n54> yes true but the final drop for me wass usually making it look the same on opera as on mozilla and ie - in the end I couldn't take it anymore lol
21:57 <n54> was*
21:57 <wrtlprnft> huh?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> i never had big problems with opera, FF and konqueror
21:58 <wrtlprnft> just minor fixes, usually my fault
21:58 <wrtlprnft> although FF had some annoying bugs
21:58 <n54> I suaually managed to make a standardscomplliant page look just about exactly the same in ie and mozilla but opera would all kinds of quirky stuff (this was a while ago, I stopped doing anything)
21:58 <wrtlprnft> and konqueror is really great unless you wanna style form items
21:59 <wrtlprnft> then it becomes a mess
21:59 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:59 <wrtlprnft> if you're talking pre- opera7 i can understand that
21:59 <n54> hmm it might have been as said it was a while ago
22:00 <n54> how many years since 6.8?
22:00 <wrtlprnft> 6.8?
22:00 <n54> yeah I think it might have been *looks it up*
22:00 <Self_Destructo> n54: LOL good one - talking about the link
22:01 <wrtlprnft> opera7 was releases jan 2003
22:01 <Self_Destructo> http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
22:01 <n54> hehe the story?
22:01 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
22:01 <wrtlprnft> *released
22:01 <n54> yeah :)
22:01 <n54> hmm ok wrtlprnft
22:03 <n54> might actually have been 7-something but it's not important :)
22:03 <n54> they're at the front now :)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> interesting story that one Self_Destructo 
22:04 <n54> yeah
22:04 <wrtlprnft> 7-something is still old :)
22:04  * n54 is bot a bot :D
22:04 <wrtlprnft> but it was a huge jump
22:04 <n54> uh... not*
22:04 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:05 <n54> :)
22:05 <wrtlprnft> opera 6 was the first version i had... i kept it for a while after 7 came out since i didn't like the new version
22:06 <n54> yeah I probably did the same
22:06 <wrtlprnft> new look (didn't know about skins and there was no really good opera6 skin anyways) and there was no emeil notification window
22:06 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p50908E20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i used to have a wondow open every time i got a mail
22:06 <wrtlprnft> *window
22:06 <wrtlprnft> if i did that now i would be clicking all the time
22:06 <n54> never used opera for mail myself
22:06 <wrtlprnft> heh. i love opera's mail client
22:07 <n54> :)
22:07 <wrtlprnft> more than 50000 messages now and a keyword search takes about a second before the first results show up
22:07 <wrtlprnft> incremental, of course
22:07 <n54> I want to set up qmail some time and probably squirrelmail too
22:08 <n54> I used squirrel at uni years ago and liked it a lot
22:08  * wrtlprnft doesn't like webmail interfaces
22:08 <n54> I kind of agree but squirrel was different imo
22:10 <n54> anyway qmail is probably what I really want, then whatever client I use probably wont matter as long as I make them not dl anything permanently
22:11 <wrtlprnft> if i'll ever switch mail client it will be a console client
22:11 <wrtlprnft> mutt or something
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that way i can do the same thing as i do with irssi and put it into a screen session
22:11 <wrtlprnft> *that
22:12 <wrtlprnft> and if i ever switch web browsers... imagine the details
22:12 <n54> as in switching mail over etc.?
22:13 <wrtlprnft> no. if i have a console mail client in a screen session i can just SSH from anywhere and get access to my mail as if i was sitting directly in front of my computer
22:14 <n54> ah yeah but in my case my main computer is not contiuosly on (when it's operating) but the server I have planned would be
22:15 <wrtlprnft> I was thinking about moving this IRSSI session over to my server
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but decided against it because of the lag
22:16 <n54> yeah it's a quarter of the world away for you :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:16 <wrtlprnft> YAY
22:16 <n54> ? :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> it stopped wanting to install gnome BS
22:16 <n54> hehe
22:23 <Self_Destructo> book printed :)
22:23 <n54> :)
22:23 <Self_Destructo> i went back and re did those 100 pages way off sync
22:24 <wrtlprnft> just 100 pages...
22:24 <wrtlprnft> TREE MURDERER! jk
22:24 <n54> lol but now that tree is like preserved! ;)
22:24 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, someone remind me to check my logs in a week
22:25 <wrtlprnft> just configured logrotate to rotate those overflowing things
22:25 <n54> I will have forgotten tomorrow, don't ask me :|
22:25 <wrtlprnft> my /val/log/messages is 150MB
22:26 <wrtlprnft> */var
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #list later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: notes and tell
22:26 <n54> that's a tad ont he heavy side isn't it? running tripwire or similar?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no command "later".
22:26 <wrtlprnft> no, but they're over a year old now
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help tell
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells the <nick> whatever <text> is. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
22:27 <wrtlprnft> no #tell --in 1 week wrtlprnft blah?
22:27 <n54> make a cronjob?
22:27 <n54> mailing you?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's what logrotate does
22:28 <wrtlprnft> just an easy way
22:28 <wrtlprnft> you know, central point where all packages with logs put themselves into
22:28 <wrtlprnft> I'm fine if it just gzips the files and stores them somewhere
22:29 <wrtlprnft> mailing is a bad idea, i don't want it to send me a 150MB mail next week
22:29 <n54> no just a reminder was my thought
22:29 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah
22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:29 <n54> I wouldn't want a 150MB mail either :D
22:30 <n54> that's way beyond spam :)
22:30 <wrtlprnft> what was that command that lets you execute another command at a specified time?
22:30 <n54> at?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> i thoght it was at, but it doesn't exist on my sytem
22:30 <n54> that might be outdated though
22:30 <n54> ah oh *scratches head*
22:31 <wrtlprnft> /msg memoserv help
22:31 <wrtlprnft> ack
22:31 <wrtlprnft> there must be a use in that thing
22:32 <n54> hmm I still have at at my system (knoppix)
22:32 <wrtlprnft> might just be something gentoo doesn't install by default
22:33 <n54> yeah, or maybe it does something weird like only provide it to root? *no idea*
22:33 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:33 <SD|away> cya guys
22:33 <n54> cya SD :)
22:33 -!- SD|away is now known as SD|bbmonday
22:33 <wrtlprnft> cya
22:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's a no for the match tomorrow i guess
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> that's a no
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> I'm never here on sundays
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ah, right
22:34 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3460
22:34 <wrtlprnft> grammar: 0
22:34 <wrtlprnft> 2.8 is better
22:34 <wrtlprnft> better than what?
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> lol
22:34 <wrtlprnft> and it's 0.2.8, if anything
22:36 <n54> brb
22:37 <wrtlprnft> hb
22:45 <n54> hb?
22:47 <wrtlprnft> hurry back
22:47 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:47 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:48 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:52 -!- _Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
22:52 <n54> wb
23:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:12 -!- _Lucifer_arma is now known as Lucifer_arma

Log from 2006-05-14:
--- Day changed Sun May 14 2006
00:20 <n54> cya all :)
00:20 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
00:29 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8E52.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:31 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
01:03 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:39 <spider> supercalafragalisticsexpealapwnage
03:03 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
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03:05 <philippeqc> morning
03:19 <guru3> good morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> philippe:
03:19 <philippeqc> how are you all
03:19 <philippeqc> yes
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3459&highlight=
03:20 <philippeqc> Ebonstar
03:20 <philippeqc> do you still have the log of our discussion?
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  I posted the disk image there, I also have a kickstart rom if you need it to run UAE
03:21 <philippeqc> I get the feeling one or 2 crutial details are lacking
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> I probably have the log, but wouldn't be able to find it.  :)
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> um, if you want to fire it up and see the game for yourself, that probably tells you everything I could tell you that's not in that thread already.
03:22 <philippeqc> search for ebonstar! How often does that word pop up in a regular dicussion ;)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> UAE handles it quite well.  I played it earlier.  :)
03:22  * Lucifer_arma tries to remember where the logs are kept
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47478#47478
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that may not be the complete chat
03:29 <philippeqc> ok thanks
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, wasn't complete.  Refresh to get the rest.
03:32 <philippeqc> question about ebonstar, cant you just park in a corner far from the black hole and be pretty safe?
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, as long as someone's shot didn't hit you
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> the shots would last for like 30 seconds or longer before they timed out
03:32 <philippeqc> you will just get momentun in the wrong direction, but mostly toward the corner.
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> so someone could bounce one off a few walls and sneak it behind the black hole
03:32 <philippeqc> I guess you bounce off the walls
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> the corners are small, you bounce off the wall and fall in
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> but you spawn in the corners for that reason, they're relatively safe
03:33 <philippeqc> ok
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03:35 <philippeqc> ha, the momentum gained from a missile must be important enough to make you bounce out of your corner
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> it's quite substantial
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> you also lose control while bouncing from it, so you're also stunned when hit
03:36 <philippeqc> o ok
03:36  * Lucifer_arma is remembering details now that he didn't remember because he played it earlier :)
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> check it out, seriously.  I can pm you a kickstart rom for UAE.  Movement keys (for green, anyway) are n,m turn, "," is thrust, and "." is fire
03:38 <philippeqc> ok
03:38 <philippeqc> started my im
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> this probably counts as fair use, so if you don't have a license for a kickstart rom, you should delete it when done :)
03:39 <philippeqc> firewall/router must be making trick
03:40 <philippeqc> msn/jabber?
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> forums.  It's already zipped, I got it that way
03:40 <philippeqc> ok
03:41 <philippeqc> I've downloaded the bin for UAE
03:42 <philippeqc> requires libgtk-1.2, and the install process decided to jam for the first time ever
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ok, pmed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ?  don't you just run it from the directory it's in?
03:42 <philippeqc> yes, but it needs libgtk, and I dont have it installed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> compiling it was a pain on Mandriva, when I last tried.  The bin worked, though.  And they had no package.  :(  Kubuntu has a package.  :)
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> oh.
03:44 <philippeqc> quite peculiar! I restarted the install, and it just die(no response from the app) on the second file.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what's up.  I never tried to install it, just ran it from the directory it's in.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I tried to build it, under the crazy impression I could improve its performance, until I realized it wouldn't matter as fast as my machine is compared to an amiga
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think there's a non-gtk ui, though.
03:46 <philippeqc> it is really jamming (the installation of libgtk is)
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> hm, says I can't pm it to you.  I'll put it on my website.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> libgtk is jamming?
03:47 <philippeqc> the installation of some package required for it
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> are you installing it from a package, or is the UAE installer trying to do it?
03:47 <philippeqc> I got it to run now
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
03:48 <philippeqc> no, myself on mandrake
03:48 <philippeqc> I also clicked on some dev files, they must be the ones jamming
03:48 <philippeqc> libgtk had 1 dependency
03:48 <philippeqc> did it in 2 step, the dependency alone, then libgtk alone
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> www.davefancella.com/Kickstart1.3.zip
03:48 <philippeqc> running
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> the game is running?
03:49 <philippeqc> EUA
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  hmm,
03:49 <philippeqc> got the kickstart
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, unzip the kickstart somewhere.  Then in UAE, click the Memory tab
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click Change, in the Kickstart ROM file panel.  Pick the kickstart.rom file wherever you unzipped it
03:50 <philippeqc> done
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> of course, you also should have downloaded the ebonstar.zip file from that thread and unzipped it.  :)
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click on Floppy disks
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> next to df0: click "Insert" and navigate to the ebonstar disk image and select it
03:51 <philippeqc> ok, have the .adf there
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> then click Pause at the top to unpause it and start the emulator
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> .adf is right :)
03:51 <philippeqc> neat
03:51 <philippeqc> wow, I hope the "waiting to start" animation is not the real speel
03:51 <philippeqc> speed
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> it is
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> but it's ok, trust me
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and remember, this computer was cutting edge in 1986
03:52 <philippeqc> how can I slow it down
03:53 <philippeqc> it is already on "approximate 68000/7mhz speed"
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> ?  it should be running right, UAE is a good emulator that way
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> and 68000/7mhz is the original processor, and the one I had as a kid.  :)
03:54 <philippeqc> took the xi86 bin and I'm running on AMD64. That would mess up anybody
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> the magical aspect of the game was its multiplayer mode.
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> aha
03:54 <philippeqc> ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> CPU emulation tab - click adjustable and fool with it until it feels right
03:55 <philippeqc> I'll loan my gf computer, there is still a linux install on a 10 gig partition ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> uae has a windows version too.  :)  I'm sure you noticed...
03:55 <philippeqc> already did, I'm at the max "cycle per instruction" helped, but still unplayable
03:59 <philippeqc> got it to work
03:59 <philippeqc> optimize for host cpu speed
04:01 <philippeqc> lol, its fun
04:01 <philippeqc> sad I cant rebind the keys
04:02 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: bump on success with the game
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I was playing it myself :)
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> I think UAE will let you rebind keys somehow, but I could be wrong about that
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> but no, ebonstar itself doesn't let you rebind keys.  :(  An obvious improvement we'd make using our engine for it
04:03 <philippeqc> no, just allow me to pick different type of joystick
04:03 <philippeqc> or mouse
04:07 <philippeqc> how do you stop it?
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot.  :)
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> So I just click the close window button
04:08 <philippeqc> mouse control is not so easy
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> also directional control is hard.  That's where the keys mean directions instead of rotate/thrust.
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> directional control makes sense for joystick controller, actually.
04:09 <philippeqc> yes
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the game was really fun when you played it with the 4 players it supports.  It was a lot of fun then, oe of the best games ever, imo
04:09 <philippeqc> ok, I see the fun factor
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and that's what we've got, the multiplayer support....
04:10 <philippeqc> I made a small tron game back in the days. Also supported 4 players
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and an engine that's pretty close to being able to handle it, although z-man suggests gGame should be factored first.
04:10 <philippeqc> random start up position. line = 1 pixel on the screen, had a library that did 1024x768 (from prompt, not windows)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> it used to be a lot of fun to play head-to-head action games on a computer.  This internet thing is fun and has its own charm, but there's still something terribly enjoyable about doig it in person
04:11 <philippeqc> yes, the "ha ha in your face" factor
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  And the "oops I spilled my drink and you died, sorry about that"
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> and you can curse at someone in realtime...
04:12 <philippeqc> at easter, had a talk about LAN with an aunt
04:12 <philippeqc> trying to explain LAN party
04:12 <philippeqc> to someone who dont really get computers
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> we always thought ebonstar was most fun when you played it collaboratively, I think it would adapt to team play very nicely.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> just tell her it's "board games with computers".
04:13 <philippeqc> ended up saying, well, you can play solitary by yourself with a deck of card, or bridge on the computer, but its much more fun to play card with people around you for the small comment and the discussion around the play.
04:13 <philippeqc> the lan party allows for that factor.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but some extra possibilities.  :)
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> "You three play in that room, we three in that room, you other over there.  It's teams"
04:14 <philippeqc> yes, but I've never tried that thou!
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> talking over the table in cards is rude.  Quite a difference there.  :)
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> me neither, actually.  Never done a lan party
04:15 <philippeqc> Had a small one with like 7 friend in my app in montreal. Did mostly Half-Life. One guy never touched the game before. You can guess he was always out of ammo.
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that would be me.  I'm not much for fps games
04:16 <philippeqc> but he picked the mad scientist skin. Seeing him bouncing off the walls, runing toward me with the crowbar got me laughting so hard each time, he always killed me
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> of course, id turned me against fps games by ripping off what was a really great c-64 game for one of their "demos"
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:17  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he still has his old c-64 disk image for Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
04:17 <philippeqc> or warcarf 2, playing on 2 computers nearly side by side agains a friend, exploring the game.
04:17 <philippeqc> each new unit has its own sound.
04:18 <philippeqc> After a while of play, I had invested in lots of research, and I produced a unit that came with a very deep voice and said "I'm aLiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!" 
04:18 <philippeqc> my friend "Whats that????????" me: "nothing for you to worry about ;"
04:18 <philippeqc> he catched up quite fast... and then I got sloppy on the research
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:19 <philippeqc> so after a while I hear a scretching/whining from the game on his computer.... 
04:20 <philippeqc> "he whats up with the elephants?" I ask, realising that was a unit I havent found yet. He served me my previous answer ... "Oooo, its nothing you need for you to worry about"
04:20 <philippeqc> twas a dragon unit
04:21 <philippeqc> ok, so for Ebonstar, we need:
04:22 <philippeqc> vehicule class, gCycle becomes a sub-class
04:22 <philippeqc> ship is a sub-class of vehicule
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW
04:24 <philippeqc> o my, you dont like fps because id changed some top down action game into one?
04:28 <philippeqc> I never really liked those kind of game. There was something that annoyed me in it. Liked, no loved, the fact that you could walk in one direction and shoot in another, thought that was soooo great! 
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> the problem was that they completely turned me off to the genre by taking a suspenseful game and turning it into a bloodbath
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> first impressions count for a lot
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> BCW was most fun to play when you tried to use the passes to get in and then back out.  If you tried to kill everyone, it was just trouble.
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> so you had to be very selective with which gaurds you killed, make sure to drag them back out of the way where they won't be found, etc.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> then id turns it into a game where you just mow down the whole lot of them.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> I admit, I wasn't very interested in the idea of a game where you just walk around shooting people anyway, I wanted more from the game
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> but id understandably didn't provide it back then, they were doing cutting edge graphical stuff and had no time for gameplay
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what they provide now, but carmac's redeemed himself in my eyes by running Armadillo Aerospace.  :)
04:47 <philippeqc>  /away
04:50 <philippeqc> humm, if BCW allowed for such strategy, then yes the 3d's version by id lost this aspect to a new graphic technology.
04:50 <philippeqc> But you cant contest that it launched a totally new wave of gaming
04:52 <philippeqc> The part that I'm aware of still is the same bloodbath, but I've heard of game like Thief where caution and minimal bloodbath is prefered, and required to be successfull (I havent played it thou)
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06:24 <spider> night
06:25 -!- spider is now known as spidey
06:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: any idea how to block and revert spammers on the wiki ?
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07:35 <joda_bot> did I miss something ?
07:35 <joda_bot> gaim crashed
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08:27 <wrtlprnft> omg
08:27 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=1147591032
08:32 <wrtlprnft> [We are delicate. We do not delete your content.]
08:32 <wrtlprnft> wth does that mean?
08:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Where did you read "We are delicate.." ?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> in all those spam things
08:42 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Housing_a_million_spectators&curid=1573&diff=4372&oldid=2778&rcid=3284
08:42 <wrtlprnft> look at the second changed line
08:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: So how to ban and remove those ?
08:42 <wrtlprnft> you need sysop rights to delete pages, and only nemo and Luci have those
08:42 <wrtlprnft> but you can revert the changes like i did
08:43 <joda_bot> It's half hearted and will just mess up history...
08:43 <joda_bot> btw. does a wiki merge concurrent changes ?
08:43 <wrtlprnft> for existing pages there's no better way
08:44 <wrtlprnft> sysops have a button that makes reverting easier, but it does the same thing
08:44 <wrtlprnft> and for pages that are new... they have to be deleted anyways, so it doesn't matter if the history gets messed up
08:45 <wrtlprnft> we should just try to get that spam out of google's reach as fast as possible
08:49 <joda_bot> roger
08:50 <wrtlprnft> i hope we can get captchas soon or something similar
08:56 <joda_bot> just validate all users by email
08:56 <joda_bot> should already make it slower
08:56 <joda_bot> or let some sysop confirm each new user
08:56 <wrtlprnft> second one
08:57 <wrtlprnft> that email thing is useless. It's easy to get some e-mail adress somewhere and use it
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09:11 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got a warning on windows "autoexpanding string..."
09:11 <joda_bot> this function will go away
09:12 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:13 <wrtlprnft> that means something is requesting a nonexisting char from a string
09:13 <wrtlprnft> like, a char after the end
09:13 <wrtlprnft> go to tString::1134, after that insert a st_Breakpoint();
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and then reproduce the error in a debugger
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and see if you can get anything useful from the backtrace
09:16 <wrtlprnft> err, i mean tString.cpp:1134
09:36 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: just commiting fixed windows projects
09:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: If I have some time, I'll try to use Code::Blocks resource management to replace makedist.bat
09:40 <joda_bot> hm, perhaps I should also try to automatically set the version descriptors to the current date at build time ... might be tricky though ;)
10:00 <joda_bot> tXmlParser.cpp:553 is called with an empty string
10:00 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:00 <joda_bot> this results in the string being automatically expanded 
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11:20 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: yes, joda_bot is right about the string expansion. The old tString had this as a feature, but it's evil and therefore deprecated. When merging code from b0_2_8, it occasionally gets used, though.
11:20 <z-man-home> It's a good idea to eliminate the cause of the warning.
11:21 <z-man-home> whoops, accidentally uninstalled the main master server
11:21 <n54> :o
11:22 <n54> hi btw :)
11:22 <z-man-home> joda_bot: think of the poor visualC users :) They still need makedist.bat. If you could manage the version replacement, that would be cool, though.
11:22 <z-man-home> hi
11:34 <z-man-home> release process status report: Sources are tagged
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11:43 <guru3> anyone know anything about ptys?
11:44 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Client Quit]
11:47 <z-man-home> that's what I call a drive by question
11:47 <n54> yeah :)
11:49 <z-man-home> release process status report: Linux 32 bit and Windows compilation running
11:59 <z-man-home> WTF? The autopackage builder isn't on my 64 bit machine at work.
12:00 <z-man-home> It was there on
12:01 <joda_bot> z-man-home: makedist.bat does not work on my system... Would it make sense to include a python binary in Winlibs cvs ?
12:02 <joda_bot> to allow makedist.bat to work ?
12:02 <z-man-home> Python binary? No. The usual python installation is easy enough.
12:02 <joda_bot> the problem is that on my system ... even if I assiociate .py with my cygwin python2.4.exe it would execute the python stuff 
12:02 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok, so we just require it to be installed
12:03 <z-man-home> yes
12:03 <z-man-home> We don't require the libraries to be installed because that's a pain to set up in Windows, but Python is easy.
12:04 <joda_bot> ok ... but did it ever work for you to call sortresource.py from makedist.bat ?
12:04 <z-man-home> yes
12:04 <z-man-home> Otherwise, I wouldn't do it :)
12:04 <joda_bot> z-man-home: oh, right I can't build HEAD with memorymanager (in debug mode)
12:05 <z-man-home> May be a Windows version issue, I'm on 2000
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: me too
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: guess it's a cygwin's python problem
12:05 <z-man-home> I don't actually know what Python build I'm using :)
12:06 <z-man-home> Usually I stay away from cygwin, so I guess it's not that.
12:06 <joda_bot> z-man-home: tMemManger.cpp:457 fails
12:06 <z-man-home> to compile or to run?
12:06 <joda_bot> runtime
12:07 <joda_bot> If I'd know what all those tAsserts try to assert ... it might help me understand the problem
12:07 <joda_bot> but I guess I really have to spend atleast a day reading tMemManager.cpp ;)
12:09 <joda_bot> Are there any preconditions for the memory manager to work ?
12:09 <joda_bot> like no compiler optimazations ?
12:09 <joda_bot> I might have activated those for debug mode
12:11 <z-man-home> No, it should always work
12:12 <z-man-home> I fixed a bug in the trunk that made it fail on large allocations, it's unfixed in the branches becasue we don't do them there and the memory manager isn't used on releases
12:13 <z-man-home> Hmm, the assertion may be triggered if there is a memory overwrite error
12:14 <z-man-home> It's in the deallocation portion and checks whether the management data makes sense
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12:14  * z-man-home curses at autopackage
12:20 <z-man-home> where are the fucking amd64 binaries? I mean, I have already used them! They must exist somewhere!
12:24 <guru3> not as bad as pty support suddenly disapearing :/
12:25 <z-man-home> that's what you say :( I'm questioning my sanity here.
12:25 <guru3> that's the last time i try to make something better
12:25 <z-man-home> What is pty anyway? Souds like terminal stuff
12:25 <guru3> yes
12:25 <guru3> it's like what screen uses
12:25 <n54> yes pseudo terminal
12:25 <guru3> consequence is that i can't use screen as a regular user now
12:25 <guru3> WOOO for gentoo! :D
12:26 <guru3> </sarcasm>
12:26 <guru3> i'm probably going to have to reinstall
12:26 <n54> hehe
12:26 <z-man-home> ugh, support for that can go away????
12:26 <guru3> aparently
12:26 <guru3> i think some update to pam fucking screwed it up
12:26 <guru3> and there's like _nothing_ on this
12:26 <guru3> in any documentation
12:26 <guru3> it's just doesn't work anymore
12:26 <n54> yeah there's little on ptys
12:26 <guru3> rephrase: there's no gentoo documentation about this screwing up
12:26 <n54> I looked a bit around google and there's not much
12:27 <z-man-home> The next time such a shit happens to me, I'm switching to Debian.
12:28 <z-man-home> Luckily for Gentoo, it's behaving well for me.
12:28 <n54> perhaps reading man openpty might help guru3? (I just see it in apropos)
12:28 <n54> or forkpty
12:28 <guru3> NO
12:28 <guru3> i want it to work like it did before
12:28 <guru3> i should NOT have to install something else
12:29 <n54> hey we all mess stuff up from time to time, it's part of learning
12:31 <guru3> finally found something
12:31 <n54> perhaps it works for other users than your normal one? tried creating a new user?
12:31 <guru3> 2 hours later
12:31 <guru3> now to just get x working again
12:32 <mkzelda> anyone know how to spell luci's last name
12:32 <mkzelda> trying to look at his personal site
12:32 <n54> Fancella afaik, hold on
12:32 <n54> yeah Fancella
12:32 <mkzelda> thanks
12:33 <guru3> gah sound is broken now too
12:33 <guru3> this SUCKS
12:33 <n54> what did you do to start all this guru3? :)
12:34 <guru3> upgrade xorg
12:34 <guru3> gargh blah
12:34 <n54> wow that's bad
12:36 <guru3> and now for vt switching to work
12:36 <mkzelda> there was an update to gentoo where pam or shadow had a package block, is that what u hit?
12:36 <guru3> there's this damn app i have to emerge
12:36 <guru3> and i can't remember what it is
12:37 <mkzelda> if u didnt update correctly you could lock yourself out of your machine
12:37 <guru3> i'm not locked out
12:37 <mkzelda> u cant screen as another user tho?
12:38 <guru3> i fixed that
12:38 <guru3> that was something else
12:38 <mkzelda> what now?
12:38 <guru3> now
12:38 <guru3> vt switching doesn't work
12:38 <mkzelda> heh
12:38 <mkzelda> keymap problem or vts arent created?
12:39 <guru3> keymap problem
12:40 <z-man-home> release process status report: Linux 64 bit builds are rolling.
12:41 <guru3> to fix list: vt switching; sound
12:41 <guru3> because of all the funtastic things it seems to have lost my damn soundcard
12:44 <guru3> FUCKKKK
12:44 <guru3> GARGH
12:44 <guru3> this is driving me nuts toay
12:44 <guru3> *today
12:44 <guru3> obviously i need more sleep
12:46 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes, tXmlParser gets called with an empty string
12:47 <guru3> what did i do to deserve this :(
12:48 <wrtlprnft> :(
12:48  * z-man-home postpones his Xorg update
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: uh, err, scratch that. It shouldn't.
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what calls tXmlParser with an empty string? the cockpit? the rotation? the maps?
12:49 <guru3> in other news
12:49 <guru3> exiting by your window
12:49 <guru3> is not a good idea here
12:50 <guru3> cause it's a lot further to the ground than you think
12:50 <z-man-home> guru3: umm, have you tested that theory in practice?
12:50 <guru3> yes i had to go outside just now
12:51 <guru3> and i didn't feel like putting on shoes
12:51 <z-man-home> ouch
12:51 <guru3> and going the long way around on the gravel
12:51 <guru3> so i thought why not pop out the window
12:51 <guru3> and save several feet of gravel
12:51 <n54> ground floor I hope
12:51 <guru3> yes
12:51 <n54> :D
12:51 <guru3> but there's like 20 or 30cm difference in hight
12:51 <guru3> which makes getting in extremely difficult
12:51 <mkzelda> guru3: switch to BarbieOS
12:52 <z-man-home> mkzelda: whazzad? Windows XP?
12:52 <mkzelda> http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/barbieOS.htm
12:52 <guru3> don't be a smartallac
12:52 <n54> don't add insult to injury
12:52 <mkzelda> rofl
12:52 <n54> it's based on debian! XD
12:53 <n54> we have just seen the face of satan :S
12:53 <mkzelda> haha, i was positive it was a joke for a while
12:54 <n54> no it looks like it's for real
12:54 <mkzelda> well then theres the link of the ppl dead in piracy raid
12:54 <n54> ??
12:55 <mkzelda> look at the links at the bottom
12:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess the cockpit file is not found or broken (not sure)
12:55  * n54 ins't sure he want's to opent hat page again
12:55 <mkzelda> metallica fights against underage drinking and loud music
12:56 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
12:56 <@guru3> don't try me right now
12:56 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: but the basic problem is that GetProp("string") returns NULL or "" which is converted to an empty string by tString
12:56 <n54> hmm ok perhaps it's just a joke then
12:56 <joda_bot> and an access to string[0] expands it by 1 :|
12:57 <wrtlprnft> it should return an empty tString
12:57 <z-man-home> Umm, maybe the expansion code is a bit too proactive
12:58 <wrtlprnft> can you find out the arguments of that GetProp call?
12:58 <joda_bot> the getPropBool in tXMLParser is flawed in my view
12:58 <joda_bot> it can't handle a missing propertie
12:58 <joda_bot> either an exception has to thrown or a NULL pointer has to be returned
12:58 <joda_bot> e.g. change signature to bool ?
12:58 <joda_bot> bool *
12:58 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah now i see
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: it's happening while parsing lucifers cockpit file
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: until later ... need some rest... hope to be back in 1h and 30 min
13:00 <wrtlprnft> k
13:00 <joda_bot> but there should be enough players for the 8th ;)
13:00 <joda_bot> 4 vs. 6 or something like that
13:01 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: ok, fixed it i hope
13:20 <z-man-home> Waa! CVS Test just crashed :(
13:20 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
13:20 <wrtlprnft> happy bugfixing
13:21 <wrtlprnft> looks like ftgl only takes wchars for unicode, so i assume that I have to convert :(
13:21 <z-man-home> It's running the code that's in the release I just put together :|
13:21 <z-man-home> yes, looks like you have to convert
13:22 <wrtlprnft> so i have to convert every character for every frame? that seems a bit resource hungry
13:22 <wrtlprnft> it's a rc, right?
13:22 <z-man-home> yes
13:22 <wrtlprnft> just pretend the crash happened after the release ;)
13:22 <z-man-home> haha
13:22 <z-man-home> Stupid thing is, it's already the second one
13:23 <z-man-home> the first one happened this morning, but it didn't happen again on playback
13:23 <wrtlprnft> some real- world glitch?
13:23 <mkzelda> is now a bad time to checkout?
13:23 <z-man-home> That's what I tought this morning
13:23 <z-man-home> naa
13:24 <z-man-home> mkzelda: the Trunk probably isn't affected
13:24 <mkzelda> okay
13:24 <wrtlprnft> CVS HEAD is working fine
13:24 <z-man-home> I bet it's one of my perfectly riskless fixes :|
13:24 <wrtlprnft> haha
13:25 <wrtlprnft> do you have a core dump/backtrace?
13:25 <z-man-home> I have a recording
13:25 <wrtlprnft> doesn't help if it won't crash again
13:25 <z-man-home> Playing it back in the debugger right now
13:25 <z-man-home> the crash from just now does happen again
13:25 <z-man-home> well, it did happen again once
13:26 <z-man-home> Hope the debugger doesn't make it go away
13:26 <z-man-home> gaa, playing back the wrong recording...
13:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:27  * z-man-home has to prepare dinner
13:28 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
13:28 <wrtlprnft> don't rush yourself... doesn't matter if we release now or next week...
13:29 <wrtlprnft> I don't see anyone using that ***** bug on any server yet
13:29 <spidey> wrtlprnft, wanna practice?
13:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, wait a few secs
13:29 <spidey> k
13:29 <spidey> i'll be in there
13:35 <wrtlprnft> blah
13:35 <wrtlprnft> CVS test is full and i need practice :(
13:35 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't mind i it crashed again right now
14:18 <z-man-home> I think the release trouble is the Universe's revenge for making fun of guru3's problems earlier.
14:18 <z-man-home> It probably thinks it can educate me, ha!
14:20 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:37 <wrtlprnft> ok, now i'm desperate... restarting
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:08:55 2006
15:08 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:08 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
15:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 15 secs
15:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnf1_: wb
15:09 <joda_bot> we're all ready to go
15:09 <wrtlprnf1_> i know...
15:10 <@guru3> good night
15:10 <n54> cya guru3 :)
15:10 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:12 <z-man-home> a spoon match tonight?
15:24 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:26 <n54> I think it might just be a friendly? not sure
15:28 <z-man-home> Yes, I remember from the forum discussion that there were objections against something counting for spoon
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:46:33 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:46:48 2006
15:46 -!- wrtlprnf5_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:46 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
15:46 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
15:57 <wrtlprnf5_> #echo am i online?
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:57:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:02:56 2006
16:02 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:02 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
16:03 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:03 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:03 <armabot> am i online?
16:03 <wrtlprnft> good
16:05 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:05 <armabot> am i online?
16:05 <n54> you are on my end of the line at least ;)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> well, 6 seconds of lag IRSSI tells me
16:06 <n54> gah that's a lot
16:07 <wrtlprnft> one would say so
16:11 <spidey> wrtl
16:11 <spidey> we won 3 outta 5 :p
16:16 <wrtlprnft> niiice
16:16 <wrtlprnft> great job
16:16 <wrtlprnft> I had a major nervous breakdown here
16:17 <spidey> lol
16:17 <spidey> 8th won 1 match
16:17 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:17 <spidey> i'm suprised how much better most of mbc got
16:17 <wrtlprnft> who won the 5th one then?
16:17 <spidey> noone
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:17 <spidey> we played best of 5
16:17 <spidey> we won 3
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:17 <spidey> tey won 1
16:17 <wrtlprnft> let's see how we'll do vs. AW
16:17 <spidey> i love my ping in the spoon server to :<
16:17 <spidey> :>*
16:18 <spidey> 168-178
16:18 <wrtlprnft> well, my lag was a total mess
16:18 <spidey> in cvs it's about 210
16:18 <spidey> :<
16:18 <wrtlprnft> it went up to 900 at some times
16:18 <wrtlprnft> and down to 250 again... totally messed up
16:18 <wrtlprnft> !
16:18 <wrtlprnft> 14s lag to the IRC server
--- Log closed Sun May 14 16:21:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:21:47 2006
16:21 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:21 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
16:21 <wrtlprnf1_> ...
16:21 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:22 <spidey> lol
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> can't even access the armabot logs
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> or kick the other wrtlprnf1_ variations
16:23 <wrtlprnf1_> they're all in use, waiting to time out
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> wrtlprnft: DIE!
16:24 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> lol
16:24 <spidey> lol
16:24 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:24 <spidey> wrtl you got wrtlprnft registered?
16:24 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:24 <wrtlprnft> and wrtlprnft_
16:25 <spidey> ok next time it's stuck like that do /msg nickserv ghost name password
16:25 <spidey> so /msg nickserv ghost wrtlprnft yourpassword
16:25 <spidey> it'll kill the nick
16:25 <wrtlprnft> yeah, thanks
16:25 <wrtlprnft> i thought you had to be registered with an alternate nick for that
16:26 <wrtlprnft> that linking buisness
16:27 <spidey> #ping
16:27 <armabot> pong
16:27 <spidey> k
16:27 <spidey> weird
16:27 <spidey> i got disconnected from the router
16:27 <spidey> but i'm still here
16:27 <wrtlprnft> i see that
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, no
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, if you have 1 registered nick
16:30 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:30 <spidey> and 1 nick you want to be registered
16:30 <spidey> instead of going threw all that crap
16:30 <spidey> you can link the unregistered nick
16:30 <spidey> with the registered nick
16:30 <spidey> ./msg nickserv help link
16:31 <wrtlprnft> hmm ok... well, having wrtlprnft_ registered doesn't hurt
16:31 <spidey> nope :p
16:31 <spidey> i don't have spidey registered :/
16:32 <spidey> awe
16:32 <spidey> -NickServ- The nickname [spidey] is already registered
16:33 <wrtlprnft> it is? not by you?
16:33 <spidey> no :/
16:33 <wrtlprnft> try spidey_arma :D
16:34 <spidey> hmm
16:34 -!- spidey is now known as spider
16:34 -!- spider is now known as Anthrax
16:34 <Anthrax> wtf
16:34 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:34 <Anthrax> all the names i use are registered
16:34 <Anthrax> :/
16:34 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles?
16:34 -!- Anthrax is now known as McSpiddles
16:34 <McSpiddles> :)
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!-           : is identified to services
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!- End of WHOIS
16:35 <wrtlprnft> that's your whois :D
16:35 <McSpiddles> :D
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:37 <wrtlprnft_konver> yeah it works, i get the msgs
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:49 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: congratulations ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> spidey: You really did an excellent defense ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> ok I'm off to bed and going to try to cure my cold
16:49 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-035-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, don't congratulate me
16:50 <wrtlprnft> i didn't do anything
16:55 <McSpiddles> lol
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:09:50 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:10:57 2006
17:10 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:10 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
17:10 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 6 secs
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:33:36 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:38:56 2006
17:38 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:38 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
17:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
17:39 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:43 <n54> :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/03/15/the-creation/
17:51 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:52 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
17:54 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:55 <ghableska> hi
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:55 <n54> hi :)
17:55 <ghableska> :)
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hope you guys had fun with the match :)
17:55 <ghableska> ?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> MBC vs 8T
17:55 <wrtlprnft> weren't you playing?
17:55 <ghableska> no...
17:55 <ghableska> was there an impostor?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, sorry
17:56 <ghableska> lol
17:56 <ghableska> np
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i'm confused
17:56 <ghableska> i'm aw
17:56 <ghableska> not 8th
17:56 <ghableska> :P
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't really playing
17:57 <wrtlprnft> my internet connection broke just in time
17:57 <ghableska> nice
17:57 <ghableska> yay!
17:57 <ghableska> i found out about the high scores page on the mbc site...
17:57 <wrtlprnft> it's still kinda messed up
17:57 <wrtlprnft> which one?
17:57 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/mbc.php ?
17:58 <ghableska> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=tron2
17:58 <wrtlprnft> bah
17:58 <ghableska> lol
17:59 <wrtlprnft> mine's better (of course) ;)
17:59 <ghableska> so...
17:59 <ghableska> duh ;)
17:59 <wrtlprnft> heh. it manages clan tags and stuff
17:59 <ghableska> yeah
18:00 <wrtlprnft> and it's valid XHTML
18:08 <ghableska> brb
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
18:13 <n54> do you?
18:13 <wrtlprnft> had you, that is
18:13 <wrtlprnft> *did you have
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't
18:14 <n54> did do what had who?
18:15 <wrtlprnft> ?!
18:16 <n54> :)
18:16 <ghableska> back
18:16 <wrtlprnft> look at gCycle.cpp:2213
18:16 <n54> ghabba ghabba hey :)
18:16 <ghableska> ;)
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2238 class gJustChecking
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2241     static bool justChecking;
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2243     gJustChecking(){ justChecking = false; }
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2244     ~gJustChecking(){ justChecking = true; }
18:17 <n54> just checking what?
18:22  * n54 is just checking ;P
18:28 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
19:04 <wrtlprnft> just checking whatever
19:04 <wrtlprnft> looks like some temporary code that wasn't removed
19:05 <wrtlprnft> or no, nerver mind
19:05 <wrtlprnft> it actually gets used
19:07 <n54> looks weird to be but I'm no c person :)
19:07 <n54> me*
19:07 <wrtlprnft> looks like it has something to do wit z-man's future wall code
19:07 <n54> watch out! ;P
19:08 <n54> *a wall zomm fromthe future into the past, narrowly missing n54 & wrtlprnft* :)
19:08 <n54> zooms*
19:08 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, 4-dimensional walls!
19:08 <n54> hyperwalls?
19:09 <wrtlprnft> spacetime- walls
19:09 <n54> oh
19:09 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, another one!
19:09 <n54> :)
--- Log closed Sun May 14 19:09:26 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 19:09:54 2006
19:09 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
19:09 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
19:09 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
19:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:10 <n54> hehe :D
19:13 <wrtlprnft> now that i merged all that code, let's see if it compiles :)
19:13 <n54> :)
19:14 <wrtlprnft> I can't wait for the day arma supports shooting without hacks...
19:14 <wrtlprnft> this sucks, the next time there's a greater modification of the zone code i'm doomed
19:15 <wrtlprnft> or that patch is... or it'll be some work getting it back to work
19:15 <n54> shooting?
19:16 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:16 <wrtlprnft> or actually laying mines
19:16 <wrtlprnft> lots of fun on my race server
19:16 <wrtlprnft> gets people to go their own ways and not just follow the guy that happens to be first
19:17 <n54> I like the purity of walls only myself so I'm not waiting ;)
19:17 <wrtlprnft> heh
19:17 <wrtlprnft> lotsa walls and deatzones on that server too
19:17 <wrtlprnft> *deathzones
19:18 <n54> to each their own and all that
19:18 <wrtlprnft> hehe
19:18 <wrtlprnft> at least you're not like silly
19:19 <n54> ?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> oh, he's like against anything
19:19 <n54> never met that person afaik
19:19 <n54> unless you mean oscilloscope?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> and he tells that to everyone, no matter if he wants to hear that or not
19:19 <wrtlprnft> yes i do
19:19 <wrtlprnft> silly fits better imho
19:19 <n54> ah ok well I barely know him either so :)
19:20 <n54> as long as it's all optional there's no problem imo
19:20 <wrtlprnft> exactly
19:20 <wrtlprnft> I really think he should jsut use 0.2.6 and stfu about newer versions
19:20 <n54> probably even a good thing
19:20 <wrtlprnft> oh, no :(
19:21 <wrtlprnft> compile failed
19:21 <n54> :S
19:22 <n54> I would like sprite-based walls and light effects, but I'm very patient; I don't expect something like that until like in ten years or something :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:23 <wrtlprnft> that's more GLTron's buisness
19:23 <n54> and I can't "demand" anything until I can scratch my own back anyway :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> O_o
19:24 <n54> as in the expression :)
19:24 <n54> I can actually scratch my own back in real life in case you misunderstood :D
19:24 <wrtlprnft> guess so
19:25 <n54> you know the idiom "I'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine"?
19:25 <n54> /s/and/if
19:26 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:26 <n54> ok :)
19:32 <wrtlprnft> yay gCycle.cpp compiled
19:32 <wrtlprnft> debugging is so much fun on that server
19:32 <wrtlprnft> compiling that file alone takes 45 seconds
19:36 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
19:37 <wrtlprnft> now i have to recompile everything since that stupid diff command merged some function into a private section, but it should have been public
20:08 <n54> huh now the main pc works again :| *enjoys music while I've got it*
20:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:09 <n54> I've only got sound on my main pc :) (until later at least)
20:09 <wrtlprnft> you too?
20:09 <n54> since I run off a cd on this one and the last one isn't installed properly yet
20:09 <wrtlprnft> i thought guru3 was the one with the sound probs
20:10 <n54> oh no this is entirely unconnected to guru3's problems
20:10 <n54> and this one would have sun if I did a proper install on it in all likelihood, either alsa or oss
20:10 <n54> sound*
20:13 <n54> all my entertainment is on the main pc so it's nice to have it up again :D
20:17 <n54> happy happy joy ooy XD
20:17 <n54> joy*
20:26 <wrtlprnft> what e-mail client would you recommend for a REALLY slow windows 98 box?
20:27 <wrtlprnft> I got thunderbird for my homestay mom, but it's really slow and messed up. I don't wanna set up outlook for obvious reasons...
20:28 <n54> hmm I would try thunderbird just to see but perhaps opera?
20:29 <n54> sure the machine isn't clogged up by spyware and the like?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> thunderbird is already on there, and it sucks
20:29 <n54> ah ok
20:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, the install is about 3 months old, but i have no idea what she
20:29 <wrtlprnft> 's doing
20:30 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to use opera and get it to look about like outlook/thunderbird
20:30 <n54> opera shouldn't be slow at least
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
20:31 <wrtlprnft> although it won't be blazing fast on there either
20:31 <n54> if it is and all she does is the web & mail combo then a small linux install like knoppix might be the trick
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah... i was thinking about that
20:32 <wrtlprnft> but she uses word and powerpoint :(
20:32 <n54> but try only the cd first so she can change her mind
20:32 <wrtlprnft> and well, openoffice doesn't run at all on that thing
20:32 <n54> ah ok, yeah then it becomes a bigger deal, she can't be forced then
20:32 <wrtlprnft> exactly
20:32 <wrtlprnft> if it was not for ms office i would switch her over and she would barely notice
20:34 <n54> I haven't tried office under wine myself so... because that would really be the only solution that doesn't involve tons of extra work on her part (I used to teach people office among other things, it's astonishing how hard it can be for a lot of people)
20:34 <wrtlprnft> let's try opera... all depends on whether i'll manage to import the thunderbird mails
20:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, bu office under wine... that's even slower
20:34 <n54> :)
20:35 <wrtlprnft> at least opera is nice and small...
20:37 <n54> :)
20:37  * n54 is so happy now that he has music - sickly, depressingly, candy-sweet happy ^_^
20:37 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:38 <n54> :D
20:41 <wrtlprnft> there we go
20:41 <wrtlprnft> importing... impressive :)
20:41 <n54> :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> uh, err
20:42 <wrtlprnft> that computer just started playing music when importing...
20:42 <wrtlprnft> *while
20:43 <wrtlprnft> Processing messages (-4%) (Tot:54)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> what does that negative sign do there?
20:44 <n54> no idea, preparing itself?
20:44 <wrtlprnft> erll, the messages are already appearing in the inbox in the background
20:44 <wrtlprnft> not it's -1%
20:44 <wrtlprnft> is that a step back or forward now?
20:45 <wrtlprnft> *now
20:47 <n54> this is from opera?
20:47 <n54> imo it would be forward (closer to positive) but that all depends I guess :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> well, that Total:x count is counting upwards, so I'm happy :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell mcspiddles "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:55 <wrtlprnft> can't people just stick ot one nick? :o
20:55 <n54> poor guy :)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:56 <wrtlprnft> hmm, that server takes just one little configuration change and it'll be a server with shooting :)
20:56 <wrtlprnft> imagine shooting the defender :D
20:56 <wrtlprnft> but I guess i won't enable it or it's not a suitable practice server
21:02 <wrtlprnft> #seen a
21:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: a was last seen in #armagetron 5 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 47 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <a> ?!
21:02 <wrtlprnft> ... and that guy is screwing up the arma stats
21:05 <n54> :)
21:07 <wrtlprnft> 617 mails... how many does she have?
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 619/-2*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (619 / -2) * 100 = -30,950
21:08 <wrtlprnft> so she has 30,950 mails it seems
21:08 <wrtlprnft> *-
21:10 <n54> :D
21:10 <wrtlprnft> woot woot
21:10 <wrtlprnft> it's at POSITIVE 3% now
21:10 <n54> lol
21:10 <wrtlprnft> #g 641/3*100
21:10 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (641 / 3) * 100 = 21,366.6667
21:10 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:10 <wrtlprnft> still lots of mails
21:10 <wrtlprnft> !
21:11 <wrtlprnft> 5%
21:11 <n54> yup
21:11 <wrtlprnft> going really rapid now
21:11 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <wrtlprnft> -5% now
21:11 <wrtlprnft> ...
21:12 <wrtlprnft> that thing is playing games with me
21:12 <n54> better not delete any! :D
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i hope it's not importing the same few mails over and over agaibn
21:12 <wrtlprnft> it almost looks like it
21:13 <n54> why would it do that though?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> i don't know.
21:13 <wrtlprnft> thinderbird's mail DB must be pretty messed up, or it wouldn't behave so weird
21:13 <wrtlprnft> and it crashed like twice per day
21:13 <n54> strange
21:14 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!!!
21:14 <wrtlprnft> it went from Trash to Sent
21:14 <n54> ?
21:15 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> that means it can't be stuck in an endless loop :)
21:15 <n54> hmm
21:15 <wrtlprnft> it displays what it is currently importing
21:15 <wrtlprnft> first it was inbox, then trash, and now sent
21:15 <n54> sounds reasonable to me so far, and there might be multiple inboxes etc. as well
21:16 <wrtlprnft> :(
21:16 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:16 <n54> I almost always segregate stuff that way
21:16 <wrtlprnft> maybe the - is indicating in what direction the percentage is growing?
21:16 <n54> no idea really
21:17 <wrtlprnft> like, it's an estimate, you don't know how big the mails and attachments are, and it is guessing?
21:17 <n54> btw hi GodTodd
21:17 <n54> yeah perhaps
21:17 <n54> ops once again I mistook a leaving for an entry :P
21:17 <wrtlprnft> so if it is on some huge attachment it is thinking there might be more of those
21:17 <wrtlprnft> cya
21:17 <n54> yeah
21:17 <wrtlprnft> and terefore it adjusts the percentage to something smaller
21:18 <n54> mm
21:20 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:20 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:20 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:20 -!- _GodTodd is now known as GodTodd
21:21 <n54> hi there GodTodd
21:21 <GodTodd> hello
21:21  * wrtlprnft stopped saying hi to people since he got told off by z-man :D
21:22 <n54> for saying hello???
21:22 <wrtlprnft> for saying wb, to be exact
21:22  * n54 better watch it then :S
21:22 <wrtlprnft> he says it's useless and i shouldn't unless i had something else to say
21:23 <GodTodd> hmmm....half of human communication, if viewed objectively, is useless :D
21:23 <n54> well yeah that's kind of true, it depends a bit on the channel and such
21:23 <n54> only half? :o
21:23 <GodTodd> at least
21:23 <GodTodd> i was being conservative ;)
21:23 <n54> I thought it was a dead 100% :D
21:24 <n54> (not that it stops be gabbering lol)
21:24 <n54> me*
21:24 <GodTodd> nor me ;)
21:25 <n54> some fo the freenode channels are very strickt and with reason (people don't want their program calling ofr attention unless it's something "real")
21:25 <wrtlprnft> woo 1000 messages
21:25 <n54> :)
21:26 <wrtlprnft> well if you just entered it doesn't really matter
21:26 <n54> yeah
21:26 <wrtlprnft> you just opened the damn thing, so you should stick around for a few seconds
21:26 <n54> could be automagic :)
21:26 <n54> startup etc.
21:26 <wrtlprnft> mine is
21:26 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't call for attention until i log in
21:27 <wrtlprnft> so it runs in some detached screen session and doesn't bother me
21:28 <n54> yeah it's sort of the same here - although gaim in it's infinite betaness doesn't stop scrolling when it doesn't have focus (yet, might be in the works)
21:28 <wrtlprnft> bah gaim
21:28 <n54> :)
21:29 <wrtlprnft> what?
21:29 <n54> what what?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> now it's back to inbox again?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> oh no...
21:29 <n54> probably another one, I'm not surprised if she & others have many
21:29 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:30 <n54> because lumping all kinds of different types of mail into the same inbox is just a mess
21:30 <wrtlprnft> opera just puts all into one DB
21:30 <n54> even if you ahve inboxes for different mail-accounts?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, no
21:31 <n54> ok :)
21:31 <wrtlprnft> but she has just one
21:31 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
21:31 <n54> how would you know?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> i can forget the whole thing...
21:31 <n54> ?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> opera can't make HTML mails
21:32 <wrtlprnft> *send
21:32 <n54> it can't?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> no, and it's not a bad thing
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but she wants those...
21:32 <n54> I agree but it still surprises me, are you sure?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> yes i am
21:32  * n54 uses only pure text
21:32 <wrtlprnft> it's an ongoing discussion in tons of forums
21:32 <n54> ok
21:33 <wrtlprnft> but opera doesn't support them
21:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll let that import run anyways, but i fear opera isn't an option...
21:35 <wrtlprnft> any other clients?
21:36 <n54> hmm
21:36 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A95C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <n54> must be something more exotic then I guess
21:36 <wrtlprnft> exotic == doesn't feel like thunderbird i fear
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylpheed
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that looks kinda promising...
21:39 <wrtlprnft> but i don't see that it supports html mails at all...
21:39 <n54> hmm yes
21:40 <n54> perhaps the claws addon thingy
21:40 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is, all windows mail clients with html support need an html engine...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> that's IE, ff and opera
21:40 <n54> this one had something called dillo?
21:40 <wrtlprnft> dillo... well...
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it's nice and fast, but has no CSS support
21:42 <wrtlprnft> and it can't send HTML mails, anyways
21:42 <wrtlprnft> which puts it onto the same level as opera
21:45 <n54> there's some at sf but not sure if any really meet your needs http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=mail+client&type_of_search=soft
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients#Features
21:46 <wrtlprnft> most of them are commercial or not available for windows or mozilla- related or IE- related
21:46 <wrtlprnft> commercial = pay software
21:46 <wrtlprnft> she won't pay for an email client
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> WELCOME BACK DUDEZ!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?!
21:47  * Lucifer_arma looks for his brush
21:47 <n54> yikes again lol
21:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, Lucifer_arma seems to be shocked by his vacation
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sorry, I was scrolling up to see what I missed
21:47 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> and then the ODD kicked in....
21:47 <n54> ODD?
21:47 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> opera is finished
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> Oppositional Defiant Disorder
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> it means I'm a punk :)
21:48 <n54> as long as you don't make me feel like Clint Eastwood I gues hat's ok :)
21:48  * Lucifer_arma notes that it's self-diagnosed purely for fun
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> Go ahead, punk.  Make my day.
21:48 <n54> hehe
21:48 <n54> I'm sorry Dave, I cannot let you do that
21:48 <n54> XD
21:49  * n54 has been waiting for a chance to say that lol
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> punk
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:49 <n54> heh :)
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> found my brush
21:49 <n54> toilet or teeth?
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> hair brush, man
21:49 <n54> lol
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh good.  with my hair brushed, I feel human
21:52 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> bye deja_vu
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> is deja_vu_ a bot?
21:53 <n54> nope
21:53 <n54> from switzerland iirc
21:53 <n54> where it's also about 0456 now, like here
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah, I know.  just starting trouble....
21:54 <n54> :)
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> last time I suggested he was a bot, he came in here and chewed me a new asshole
21:54 <n54> really? lol
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, should I bring in my event manager from my aborted cpp version of acme, or should I take wrtlprnft's cockpit callback system and use it to construct an all-new event manager?
21:56 <n54> go all new
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I was looking at pui, thinking about what we needed to do just to get to where we can try it, and figured out that the input system needs serious work
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> ala event manager type of work.  Figured if I threw in an event manager to handle input with the current code, others would start filling it out to handle game events
21:57 <n54> yeah it should be fairly well thought-out and specific, that way it'll probably make more sense in the long run
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, this'll be the third or fourth event manager I've tackled.  I won't claim to be an expert, but I think I know what it definitely needs, and what I need to think about working on it :)
21:58 <n54> :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's another one of those things where if I can just get it building and working with a few objects, others around here can extend it quite well
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I figured I'd write it up and see if I can pull the GUI out into its own space without having to serious refactor it
22:00 <n54> god my main machine sounds like a vacuum-cleaner *shuts it off and prays it will turn on again next time too*
22:00 <n54> hmm sounds good
22:06 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:06 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:06 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> always funny, that smiley is
22:06 <n54> :) <- that one?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> you could translate it to cya wrtlprnft *phew! he's gone! finally!*
22:07 <n54> lol no I don't use smiles that way
22:07 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:07 <n54> :)
22:13 <n54> shit it's monday... I thought it would be sunday :|
--- Log closed Sun May 14 22:22:53 2006
--- Log opened Mon May 15 07:13:22 2006
07:13 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
07:13 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
07:13 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
07:22 <McSpiddles> :)
07:22 -!- McSpiddles is now known as McSpiddles|zZzZz
07:40 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
07:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&hidepatrolled=0&limit=100
07:52 <wrtlprnft> bot
07:54 <guru3> WELL
07:54 <guru3> *well
07:54 <guru3> very few things in my life have gone worse
07:55 <z-man> you mean your upgrade?
07:55 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
07:55 <guru3> my exam
07:56 <z-man> whoooops
07:56 <guru3> who gives a crap about the upgrade
07:56 <guru3> that may piss me off but i can deal with software problems
07:56 <z-man> But you can't possibly have the results already, can you?
07:56 <guru3> no
07:56 <guru3> but you can have a feel
07:57 <guru3> and leaving answers blank
07:57 <guru3> never makes you feel good about an exam
07:57 <z-man> Yeah, but unless you turned in a blank sheet, you can't be sure
07:57 <guru3> that's very optimistic
07:57 <guru3> but i just feel bad now :/
07:58 <z-man> Our exams here are always designed so than absolutely noone has enough time to answer all the questions
07:58 <guru3> and my arms hurt for some weird reason
07:58 <guru3> probably playing too much beethoven on the piano :/
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I threw together a test drupal site with the wiki component, unfortunately it has a pretty nasty bug
08:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
09:38 <z-man> Tomatoes make poor office plants. They need too much water. Mine looked almost dead already twice ;( Luckily, it is also quick to recover.
09:49 <guru3> you keep a tomatoe plant in your office?
10:04 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:24 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
10:26 <z-man> guru3: yes, a decorational one. I don't think you'll be able to eat the fruit, I don't even sure whether it'll bear one.
10:27 <z-man> The funny thing is, it came out of a can :)
10:27 <z-man> Like a plant for dummies. I just had to open the can and add water.
10:27 <z-man> Lots of water, it seems.
10:31 <guru3> cool
10:32 <n54> on the font thing; requiring more glyphs is like requiring multi-platform support for code; in the end it contributes more to the quality of "itself" than one would think
10:33 <z-man> I don't think that if I did a font, making me draw all those Chinese things would improve the quality of my work :)
10:34 <z-man> With code, the goal is to support many platforms/compilers with the same lines of code. You don't write the code anew for every platform. I don't think the font/code comparison holds.
10:35 <n54> I agree that would be excessive (but it still would actually, just as long as you speak and write chinese well enough not to make mistakes) :)
10:35 <n54> yes and the same is actually true for real font design, you want the idea of your font to be applicable to as much as possible
10:36 <z-man> Chinese and Japanese and Hebrew and whatnot else
10:37 <z-man> Hmm, you've got a point with your style argument.
10:38 <n54> yes I know ;) but yeah I think we actually agree because I'm not going to make 60000+ chinese glyphs for any font I make XD
10:38 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:40 <n54> one solution could be to have a base font with "everything" and then specific fonts replacing a subset but I'm not sure how the program would check for missing characters in the "2nd layer font"
10:40 <z-man> I think the font knows which glyphs are set and which are empty
10:41 <n54> ok
10:41 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
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10:56 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #Armagetron
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but to be honest, unless someone volunteers to make a chinese/hebrew/arabic font, we're just going to find one and stick it in there
11:26  * Lucifer_arma notes that he wanted wrtlprnft to do the font because wrtlprnft cares about all the accents and stuff, which is reasonable to require in the base font
11:26  * Lucifer_arma wouldn't have cared about them, they don't show up in english.
11:30 <n54> fonts might very well turn out as collaborative efforts in the end, which is probably ideal in some ways
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, the source file we're using is in cvs.  :)
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Also, wrtlprnft did the last big font revision and was already well familiar with it.
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Speaking of whiches...
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft The period in the font is off-centered.  It's all the way to the left, so decimal numbers look weird.  1.0 and stuff.  The period is right after the 1, and then a big gap to the 0.
11:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but even if he hadn't jumped on it so quick and I kept plugging away, I would've stopped when I had all the regular english characters and proceeded to take bitching over not putting any of the rest in :)
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but I can't even promise doing punctuation, heh
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, it would be nice if people volunteered to make fonts for other languages that match the style in this one, or to add the characters to this font or whatever.
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> but for the same reason I wouldn't do all those extra characters, I just don't see wrtlprnft doing a hebrew font for us, or arabic, or chinese, whatever.
11:42 <n54> yes of course
11:44 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
11:44 <z-man> Three days offline and the first thing you say is ping?
11:44 <Luke-Jr> yes
11:44 <z-man> :)
11:44 <Luke-Jr> how do I use CVS ACLs to block any CVS commits?
11:45 <Luke-Jr> preferably with a message referring to a forum post
11:45 <z-man> That would be a bad idea. How would you reenable commits when you're done?
11:46 <Luke-Jr> maybe wouldn't, but I presume the ACL can be deleted...
11:46 <z-man> That would also be a commit.
11:47 <Luke-Jr> ok, so don't apply the ACL to the CVSROOT module (presuming that's where the commit is)
11:47 <Luke-Jr> or better yet, just to the relevant module ;)
11:47 <z-man> Which is the relevant module?
11:47 <Luke-Jr> armagetron[ad]
11:48 <z-man> only that? What do you have in mind?
11:48 <Luke-Jr> which brings up the question of whether I should import the other stuff at the same time
11:48 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion
11:48 <z-man> Umm, not before is out, please, or at least give me a chance to merge the changes back to b0_2_8
11:49 <Luke-Jr> err-- ok
11:49 <z-man> I'd say everything should be converted at once, wouldn't be much fun having to use armagetronad from SVN and armagetronad_release from CVS
11:49 <z-man> err, _build
11:49 <Luke-Jr> true
11:50 <Luke-Jr> though I was thinking more of griddraw, macosx_recorder, and such
11:50 <z-man> Lucifer_arma requested that acme shouldn't be converted
11:51  * Luke-Jr notes
11:51 <z-man> There definitely should be an announcement about this on the forum prior to the action
11:51 <z-man> so people have a chance to check in their current working copies
11:51 <Luke-Jr> ok, "planned for immediately after release"?
11:51 <z-man> For example
11:52 <z-man> And I think the release will be the weekend after the next, if nothing bad happens (again)
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- drupal wiki test place
11:53 <z-man> If it should be done earlier, as I said, I can easily merge back the changes from the release branch as it stands now, and if anything new is committed afterwards, manually merge it over to SVN
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat.  It looks like you can insert any node into the wiki
11:57 <z-man> waiting for the confirmation email... Do I get access to the test project then?
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> no email coming
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> just login?
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I made both users passwords "flowers"
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> er, making it right now
12:02  * Lucifer_arma still needs to fix outgoing mail on that machine
12:03  * Luke-Jr logs in as z-man =p j/k
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> TEST SITE :)
12:04 <z-man> waaa
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> very rough around the edges, it can take awhile to setup a new drupal installation
12:04 <Luke-Jr> maybe we should just write a CMS using Gallery2's API
12:05 <Luke-Jr> ;)
12:05 <z-man> Is that one of your .. ideas again?
12:05 <Luke-Jr> nah
12:05  * Lucifer_arma files that in his "universe revolves around Luke-Jr" file :)
12:05 <Luke-Jr> tho G2 is quite modular, and if one were to plan to write a full CMS, it would make a nice start
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> indeed.  I should point out that so far Drupal at least has the appearance of being the ideal CMS, by my own standards anyway
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> the wiki module needs templates.  I used those extensively on the KNights of Ni pages, it would be nice to have them.
12:09 <z-man> Waaaa! The bug tracker doesn't support setting bookmarks on specific searches :(
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> um, it does?
12:10 <z-man> Not for me
12:10 <z-man> They all end up as http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/add/project_issue
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> down at the bottom, under the tracker listing, next to the rss feed icon
12:10 <Luke-Jr> pfft
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> there's a # sign
12:10 <Luke-Jr> I think he means *normal* bookmarks
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/issues&projects=2&states=1,2,8,13,14&categories=bug
12:11 <Luke-Jr> tho normal bookmarks suck in Konqueror, so I don't use them
12:11 <z-man> Ah, it only appears if the search doesn't turn up empty
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's not obvious, it's definitely worth hacking to find that link and put something more useful in the caption :)
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, just made you an Administrator
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha
12:16 <z-man> Yeah, well, your ticked was auto-assigned to me
12:17 <z-man> can we get a version field in the tracker?
12:17 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, hm.  I wonder how to do that...
12:23 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I think I figured it out.  Somehow extensions is a version, though.  Hmmm......
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> so, version would have to be associated together pretty much.  Makes sense, Drupal modules are versioned the same as Drupal itself so you know which version it's compatible with
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> so we have to maintain a list of versions for projects to use, and then when a project is created, or edited, the person doing so picks which versions can be used from what's available in drupal's taxonomy module
12:28 <z-man> Does what you're saying translate to "versions are a pain" for a normal bloke?
12:29 <Lucifer_arma> it means we have two choices
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 1.  Tell people to categorize version with the armagetronad version
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 2.  Create a whole slew of versions from 0.1.0 -> 3.9.9
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> IN the case of 2, project admins would have to pick what versions are available from the list
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> There may be a module to allow us to give users limited editing/creation access to the taxonomy module
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> also, a lot of these fancy names for Drupal stuff has to get renamed to some extent in the links created.  Regular users shouldn't have to worry about "node" and "taxonomy" and crap :)
12:32 <z-man> Ah, you're thinking ahead :) You wanted to use the tracker for moviepacks and mods.
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> yes, exactly :)
12:32 <z-man> Yeah, I had to look up taxonomy :)
12:34 <z-man> Difficult choice, code modding versions should definitiely be locked to the main AA version
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> people who submit mods would still be able to do that, so we'd have to make sure AA versions are represented in the list
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> and we'll pick from the list ourselves, of course...
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> Go to the project page and click "Edit"
12:35 <z-man> but they'll need their own further revisions; while we're working on 2.0, HangGliderFight may want to give out a sequel to 1.4.
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/2/edit
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, my point.  The top box on that edit page is the versions available for this project
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> release a new version?  Just select another one in the list
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> if people ask for a version number that's not there, we just add it.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> if there's a way to enforce that sort of thing, it'll be awhile before we discover it.  Like any particularly advanced piece of software, the UI for Drupal isn't easy to figure out, but once you figure it out, it's usually easy to work wth
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> and then we have to piece together the right magical combination of modules, if it exists.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> It's kinda like every module is a piece of plutonium, and once you install enough, er, um.  Maybe I shouldn't have it on my server....
12:40  * Luke-Jr reminds Lucifer_arma that versions are not decimal numbers
12:40 <z-man> Yeah, I agree that the UI is very confusing
12:42 <z-man> Where did my project go?
12:42  * Lucifer_arma invites Luke-Jr to manually enter all possible version numbers for himself
12:42 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=taxonomy/term/2
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> you created a new project?
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I see it
12:42 <z-man> Err, yes
12:43 <z-man> But I only get to it in "projects"/"my projects"
12:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: did it for Mantis...
12:43 <z-man> All possible numbers?
12:43 <z-man> Even the one that is one number larger that the largest number you can imagine?
12:44 <Luke-Jr> all versions
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> all versions?  Did you do 99.9999123124.235241234123.a?
12:44 <z-man> That's not what Lucifer_arma invited you for :)
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> since there are plenty of people who not only thing version numbers *are* decimal numbers, but know they won't go past 9 in any column anyway, I don't think that'll be a problem
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> but if someone wants to burn time by putting in superfluous version numbers nobody will ever use, well, it won't be me.
12:45 <z-man> Shouldn't both projects be listed here? http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> um, I don't know
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
12:47 <Luke-Jr> no, ythat deosn't exist evne in concpet
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> the Drupal site lists them, apparently
12:47 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/ with everything else, tracker items and projects alike
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr drunk?
12:47 <Luke-Jr> CPU maxed out and such
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, there's settings to change defaults for stuff.  :)  I didn't fool with those, not important for this test.  Will be important for another test later, though.
12:48 <z-man> Yes
12:48 <Luke-Jr> non-existent versions need not be listed
12:49 <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb. Let digits go beyond 9 where it makes sense
12:51 <n54> does normal signup work yet or?
12:52 <z-man> Yeah, we should force people to to a calculus test before they're allowed to play
12:52 <z-man> And, more importantly, a grammar test
12:52 <Luke-Jr> z-man: you don't need to do version math to play, just to talk about versions
12:53 <Luke-Jr> unless they're idiotic enough to uncheck "Hide Old" and see 0.2.9 after 0.2.10 is out
12:53 <Luke-Jr> and not notice it's coloured as old
12:53  * z-man was just expanding on this: <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb.
12:54 <Luke-Jr> by "playing games" I mean "accomidate their errors"'
12:54 <z-man> ah
12:54 <Luke-Jr> not the actual video game =p
12:56 <z-man> Anyway, we can handle 0.2.10 right ourselves on aabeta, but still, in FTP browsers and others it'll be sorted in before 0.2.9.
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> wel, when I run sort on a lsit of files in my directory, it tells me that 0.1.1 is followed by 0.1.10, which is in turn followed by 0.1.11
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> which, of course, isn't right.  :)
12:56 <z-man> :)
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> same thing in an ORDER BY clause
12:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: indeed, directory listing isn't too smart sometimes
12:56 <Luke-Jr> many people complain over that
12:56 <Luke-Jr> try 'ls --sort=version/'
12:57  * z-man guesses Luke's next suggestion is to fix file browsers
12:57 <Luke-Jr> w/o the slash
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's right, for the same reason that aardvark is followed by abrdvark
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> I learned that in the 2nd grade
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> can't change the rules of sorting just because you dont' like them
12:57 <Luke-Jr> that's a character comparison, not a numeric comparison
12:57 <n54> that's why I use 01 for my own purposes at least
12:57 <Luke-Jr> 10 > 2
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> versions aren't numbers, though
12:57 <Luke-Jr> versions are numbers, that's just it
12:57 <Luke-Jr> they're a sequence of numbers
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> because a number can be expressed as a decimal when it's value or an approximation is known
12:58 <n54> but anyway Lucifer; is normal signup working at your drupal page?
12:58 <Luke-Jr> ok, so they're a sequence of *integers*--- which are numbers
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, outgoing email isn't
12:58 <n54> ah ok
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> so if you signed up, I'll make you a password and you can play with it :)
12:58 <n54> not important, just curious :)
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> gotta leave in about half an hour to take my driving test
13:00 <Luke-Jr> should?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> *should not
13:00 <Luke-Jr> heh
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> damn laptop keyboard
13:00 <n54> ok :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, put credit card numbers (valid ones) in wiki pages
13:00 <z-man> Why, where do you store them?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> make sure you include the 3digit number on the back of the card
13:01 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: experation dates too?
13:01 <Luke-Jr> expiration*
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, everything an unscrupulous type (which I am not) would need to spend them
13:01 <z-man> off to go home
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> ko
13:05 <n54> so since this has a wiki eventually it might replace the armagetron media-wiki too?
13:05 <n54> or wiki-media that is... :P
13:05  * n54 is now in a state of confusion lol
13:06 <Luke-Jr> MediaWiki
13:07 <n54> no dash? I was sure there were supposed to be a dash somewhere... ah well :D
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> in a WikiWord?  are you nuts?
13:10 <n54> wingnuts - yes
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> the idea is to have it ultimately replace forums, main site, wiki, and tracker
13:10 <n54> I have solved your bug btw
13:10 <n54> nice
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> but we're only looking at it right now for wiki, main site, and tracker for third party stuff
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> it might even replace resource repository if done well
13:11 <n54> mmm me like
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> so you upload a project that's a resource to the site, and it's automatically in the resource repository
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> might be better to use backend scripts that scan uploaded releases and organize them our way, though
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> you know, instead of trying to get Drupal to do it for us
13:12 <n54> yes perhaps
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> fixed my bug?  which one?
13:13 <n54> toilet paper one
13:15 <n54> anyway things always take time to get accustomed to
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> aha
13:17 <n54> :)
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I also made the damn projects appear
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I think they didn't appear because they didn't have releases or something like that
13:18 <n54> appear where?
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
13:19 <n54> aha
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, going to take my driving test now
13:19 <n54> driving test?
13:19 <n54> like for a drivers license?
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
13:22 <n54> have fun :)
13:24 <guru3> gah
13:24 <guru3> that bar at the bottom
13:24 <guru3> is annoying
13:25 <n54> mm yeah I guess, probably easy to change
13:25 <n54> and hi of course :)
13:25 <guru3> hey n54 
13:25 <guru3> had another exam
13:25 <guru3> went badly :/
13:26 <n54> :S maths?
13:26 <guru3> yeah
13:26 <guru3> the option
13:26 <guru3> series & differential equations
13:26 <guru3> in other news my workstation should soon be working again
13:27 <guru3> just have to finnish emerging gnome and then deal with any other kinks that turn up
13:27 <n54> cool, my main pc seems to have become sane again as well
13:27 <guru3> grand
13:27 <n54> yeah
13:28 <n54> was strange using it again after using this machine (knoppix), I'e got BlackBox on the main one and it took a few minutes to get back to that feel compared to kde :)
13:29 <guru3> heh
13:30 <guru3> i'll be happy to have my workstation back
13:30 <guru3> single computer computing is so boring sometimes
13:30 <n54> now I've got to find/buy some small "split" cables for installing more fans in it
13:30 <guru3> and requires more concentration to remember the windows that are open
13:32 <n54> well I have less creens/keyboards than computers so this one is probably not going to be in use as it is now when I get back to learning openbsd on the third one
13:33  * n54 hasn't found any kwm switch he likes
13:33 <guru3> cool cool
13:33 <guru3> i've got a 4 port kvm from tripplite
13:33 <guru3> which i don't use
13:33 <guru3> as i've better mastered linux & ssh
13:33 <n54> bsd has kwm issues anyway so :)
13:33 <guru3> hah
13:34 <n54> but when I'm done getting the obsd one up to par I'll install something called synergy on that one and use over ssh
13:34 <n54> by that time synergy probably supports screens to :D
13:34 <guru3> cool
13:35 <n54> yeah it would be very nice, all three computers could share both screens and the rest
13:35 <n54> ultimately, hopefully
13:35 <guru3> cool
13:37 <guru3> i just did something horrible
13:37 <guru3> i installed a media wiki :(
13:38 <n54> hehe yes
13:40 <guru3> but alas
13:40 <guru3> must make my logo :D
13:40 <n54> :D
13:49 <guru3> garr
13:49 <guru3> really wish i had the workstation now
13:49 <guru3> so i could see what the wiki looks like :/
13:54 <n54> double loop? I mean if you want to access it as a client just to check?
13:55 <n54> if you have somewhere else to loop through that is
14:00 <guru3> meh
14:00 <guru3> the point is
14:00 <guru3> i can't figure out how to edit the footer or the side menu
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14:05 <guru3> gah
14:05 <guru3> this is suprisingly bad
14:08 <n54> yeah it's quite a spagettiball, might be taste but well
14:08 <n54> tasty*
14:09  * n54 suddenly wants to eat spagetti with meatballs lol
14:10 <guru3> heh
14:10 <guru3> gar
14:11 <guru3> the main page menubar is unchanged
14:11 <guru3> but it's changed everywhere else
14:11 <guru3> wtf is up with that
14:11 <n54> no idea
14:11 <n54> what are you using the wiki for?
14:12 <guru3> wanted a way to keep some data i'd be collecting organized
14:12 <guru3> and for fun
14:12 <n54> :) perhaps drupal will be more fun?
14:13 <guru3> it's like it's cacheing pages
14:13 <guru3> i bet that's it
14:13 <guru3> the stupid ****** thing
14:14 <n54> could well be
14:14 <guru3> hmm
14:14 <guru3> i bet it had a header for it
14:14 <guru3> forced refresh fixed that
14:24 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, mediawiki caches pages
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> you have to edit the page to get it to refresh the cache
14:38  * Lucifer_arma passed his stupid driving test
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> I really need to start renewing my license before it expires, it's such a pain to do after it expires
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
14:41 <z-man-home> Umm, HangGliderFight doesn't appear in the "browse by date" tab
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has to do with there not being any releases created for it
14:42 <z-man-home> That reminds me, I tried to create one and failed. Do I need to upload a real file?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> ummmmm
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> maybe?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> The one I created for Test Project I didn't upload a file
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> the one I just tried to create for HangGliderFight didn't succeed, something about a duplicate key in the log
14:44 <z-man-home> I ended up here afterwards: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/8/release
14:44 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
14:44 <Self_Destructo> hi
14:44 <z-man-home> Oh, do I have to enter one of the registered versions?
14:44 <z-man-home> I tried
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I figured it out
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you should upload a file now
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> stupid table, looks like it has a "NULL" with unique requirements for the filename, and since I already created one without a file...
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filectime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 348.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filemtime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 349.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: md5_file(): Unable to open file in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 350.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <guru3> how do you change font color in media wiki?
14:48 <z-man-home> err, the file does exist for me, of course, looks like drupal is looking for it on the server
14:49 <z-man-home> And quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz is the release file of HangGliderFight Bachus
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> right, problem is, it doesn't work.  The file didn't upload for some reason.
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> Tank: you'll need to look into themes
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> they're pretty straightforward when you get into it, but check MediaWiki site for info on it, also look in the themes directory
14:50 <guru3> if i wasn't on this window i'd never see that Lucifer_arma 
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> I copied (guru3) an existing theme and just modified it to suit
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3:
14:50 <guru3> but i mean font in just one line
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: guru3 guru3 
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhh
14:51 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ok, better check the mediawiki user's guide :)
14:51 <wrtl_web_broken> well...
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> looks like i can type, but not read anything
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> what?
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: That dot thing was on purpose...
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: it also looks like I can't delete releases if they get borked
14:53 <z-man-home> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions/date , look at the last modification date of my project.
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> wow, a third party extension that predates the game.  Amazing
14:53 <wrtl_web_broken> know hos some people prefer to put two spaces after a dot? I thought by putting the dot to the left side of its "box" one could just use one
14:53 <z-man-home> Not to mention I started it before I was born
14:53 <guru3> is there anyway to have it not eat the last 1/3 of the screen?
14:54 <wrtl_web_broken> but you're right about numbers, I'll change it
14:54  * wrtl_web_broken has to wait for the chatlogs on his server to update before he can see what someone else wrote (and if what i'm writing here actually goes through...)
14:55 <z-man-home> Gee, half the people here are logged in twice
14:56 <wrtl_web_broken> hmm, looks like it does
14:58 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
14:59 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
14:59  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he could get armabot to login a second time too
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> well, this Project module is nice, and looks really good on the Drupal site.  But it really feels like beta software to me.
15:00 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron ["I need to reboot my router"]
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which means, if we can figure out how to make it work right, and people don't break it, we should be fine :)
15:00 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]
15:02 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
15:09  * n54 wonders why everyone is silent
15:10  * Lucifer_arma wonders if anyone's willing to throw together a tron-like theme for drupal
15:11 <n54> lacka perhaps?
15:11 <n54> or locutus if he's still around?
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, nothing crazy, just grab the theme from the main site and turn it into a drupal theme
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> or the one from the wiki, or whatever
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> for a test website.  If someone wanted to create a new theme from scratch when/if we implemented the test website, fine.
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, just something that says "this is essentially what we can do"
15:16  * z-man-home is not good at themes
15:16 <n54> might be a lot of work either way, anyway I'm not familiar with drupal themes so since I'm messing about with cbos at the moment I'm not volunteering ;)
15:18 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["restart"]
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> "If you're not with us, you're against us"
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> man, that annoys me
15:19 <n54> I can understand that, even agree, it's something that should be said sparingly
15:19 <Lackadaisical> i think a three column layout wouldnt hurt
15:20 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
15:20 <n54> for the drupal stuff Lackadaisical?
15:21 <Lackadaisical> yeah
15:22 <Lackadaisical> drupal already 'thinks' in three columns right?
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and also a header and footer and some other things
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> but it's not really married to it, you could put the "right" column underneath the "left" column on the left, and you'd have a column on the left with two sections
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the real question is, how much work do you want to put into it for a test?  :)  A little work has to be done, but you could safely wait until we said we'll use it or not before diving in
15:24  * n54 is done with cbos -- "that went quick" in dry Gauntlet voice
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> also wrtlprnft, who's having problems saying stuff here just pmed me to volunteer if nobody else wants to do it
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I'm going to convert the wiki theme right now because it'll be fun.  :)  Drupal supports multiple themes, and even different themes for different sections, so there's no reason we can't keep all the old themes in some form
15:25 <Self_Destructo> wow, the most people in this channel I have seen in a long time
15:25 <Lackadaisical> well just converting one theme to another isnt that hard probably
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> and then give users a chance to pick the themes they really want
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> well, luckily Drupal supports several theme engines
15:25 <Lackadaisical> did you see there are two different themeengines?
15:25 <Lackadaisical> ok
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> there's one that's mambo-like, and one that's deprecated but works out of one file
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> and some others, and some third party engines.  If you know smarty, I'll be happy to throw in the smarty theme engine
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> we can even get totally obsessive about it and write our own theme engine.  :)  any takes for that?
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> *takers
15:26 <n54> lol
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> ideally we should stick to the php theme engine, I forgot what it's called already.  It's the new default theme engine
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> that's just because some stupid modules depend on it.  The only one I know for sure is the audio one, though, which we're probably not going to need
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> but I think I've seen others say "use this theme engine", which kinda breaks the rule about separating content and presentation
15:28 <n54> the php one?
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> phptemplate
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's the only one that ships with Drupal 4.7, apparently
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> there's some add-on engines I can install though
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/Theme+engines
15:34 <Lackadaisical> ayaan hirsi ali has taken her dutch nationality illegally :O
15:34 <n54> :o really? damn... I like her
15:35 <n54> we all need more people like her
15:35 <Lackadaisical> she lied about her name and birthdate
15:35 <n54> but... since she's a meber of parliament, what will happen?
15:35 <n54> member*
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
15:38 <n54> hehe lucifer :)
15:39 <n54> with those colors I really really see guru3's point about the footer though, it should go
15:42 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:48 <Lackadaisical> well her party actually knew that she lied but still let her in the parliament
15:49 <n54> huh
16:00 <n54> on wikipedia they say she's likely to move to the states
16:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: so you want me to center that dot or put it a bit more towards the centre?
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda prefer it centered completely, but if it was intentional, I guess I can live with it :)
16:03 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was a genuine mistake
16:03 <wrtlprnft> no, it was a bad idea
16:03 <wrtlprnft> so I'll center it
16:05 <n54> it's a "monospace problem" :)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:06 <wrtlprnft> done
16:07 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i read your resource stuff, it looks fine.
16:07 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, and would you mind giving me sysop rights on the wiki so i can delete spam?
16:08 <wrtlprnft> there are spam pages there for about 12 hours now
16:08 <wrtlprnft> and noone can delete them but you and nemo
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, let's see if I can remember how
16:09 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, done
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> there was a special page for it :)
16:11  * joda_bot wonders if ArmagetronAd should really require python for just sorting resources ... 
16:11 <joda_bot> Would it not be easier to just put the files in the right spot before commit ?
16:15 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion thread posted
16:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: hm?
16:16 <Luke-Jr> AFAIK, Armagetron doesn't need to sort resources yet
16:16 <Luke-Jr> nor should Python ever be a *requirement*
16:17 <Luke-Jr> not to mention being unusuable at this point due to a lack of secure execution
16:17 <Luke-Jr> unless you're referring to the build process, which can require whatever we want it to ;)
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> "Why can't you just think before you speak?"  --Overkill (and many many others)
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha, got all the stuff off the front page on the test drupal and now it's showing the default "you just installed Drupal" message
16:21 <Luke-Jr> and in the case of build process (which wasn't even implied), the "sort before commit" is bad due to CVS's inability to rename ;)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> *cough* it also lets us store development resources in a way that's actual logical and still enforce the fascist filepath standard on everything when it's installed
16:25 <joda_bot> well you seem to like it ;)
16:25 <joda_bot> to me it looks like some strange way to make it complicated ;)
16:26 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: if files aren't in the right place, it's harder to locate them
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried digging for resources in the filepath standard?
16:26 <Luke-Jr> we'd need to scan the paths and cache the name/version/category/author mappings
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: meaning?
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's a royal pain in that ass
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> *the
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: think of it more that resources do not have filenames, and the 'filepath' is the method used by the cache to store/locate them by name/author/version/cate
16:27 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I don't want to make this into a long discussion... just to me this means the resource system is not good enough
16:27 <Luke-Jr> and also the method used to abbreviate resources without a long string describing them
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't change the fact that I have to click 3 times more than necessary to get to an actual resource, and that's ignoring doing it from the command line
16:27 <joda_bot> Perhaps we can get rid of the problem by ZIP packages
16:27 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: there is no problem
16:27 <Luke-Jr> except ZIP
16:28 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: so don't develop within a cache
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, only reason I started bitching was to counter Luke-Jr's taking advantage of your question to bitch about the possiblity that python might be required some day
16:28 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: The problem is that to me and lucifer (too as it seems) a easier system can be imagined ;)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, um, I participated in the discussion and got overruled
16:28 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: sure, you could refer to the MD5 of the resource
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> so we're stuck with this
16:29 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: any other cache storing mechanism is going to be at least as "complicated"
16:29 <joda_bot> fine by me, but I really dig replacing the python script by bash and perhaps CodeBlocks Makefile Management on Windows
16:29 <Luke-Jr> go ahead
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> you have a bash xml parser?
16:30 <Luke-Jr> as long as the cache/filepath format stays the same, I really don't think I care
16:30 <joda_bot> aw, ok, damn ;
16:30 <Luke-Jr> LOL
16:30 <joda_bot> did not think as it seems ;)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, sortresources parses the xml to get the information it needs to put it in the right place
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's very useful, seriously, because after the stuff's installed, it's not so important we can reach it quickly to develop.
16:31 <Luke-Jr> I would just as well encourage development of resources under filenames like devmap.txt and just let a sorting script handle the caching of it
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> and I guess it's being installed in a logical way.
16:31  * joda_bot won't say anything as it won't improve anything ... just remember I'm unhappy :)
16:32 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: what's the problem w/ a sorting app?
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm unhappy with you, but you know....can't be happy with everything, there's what, 50 of us now?
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> also, I don't think zip packages go away, but they do let us get rid of the xml extension
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Hey, I'm sorry I should not critise a system you worked hard on
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> to lucifer-0.1.aacockpit :)
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> s/to/so
16:33 <Luke-Jr> you can get rid of .xml all you want for all I care =p
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Luke-Jr: atleast not with a working and implemented alternative at hand ...
16:34 <Luke-Jr> it's only there so the extension has some recognition
16:34 <Luke-Jr> ZIP has no use within the resource system, it's external for distribution of resources only
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> right, and for resources it would be nice if the os recognized it.  so there's another benefit to using zip to throw on the pile
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> correction "ZIP has no use that Luke-Jr can see from inside his asshole in the resource system"
16:35  * Luke-Jr decides not to rebute that
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> probably wise, because the fact that you persist in saying there's no use to having zip around only shows that you consider your own views to override all of ours
16:36 <Luke-Jr> now go read the Svn plans and comment so I can read before I go to work
16:36 <Luke-Jr> =p
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> seeing as how most of us have managed to come up with at least 1 reason to use zip, and altogether it's very compelling
16:36 <Luke-Jr> I didn't say ZIP had no use at all-- just not within the scope of the resource manager/system
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that correction doesn't change what I said
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm glad you're not a lawyer :)
16:37 <wrtlprnft> I'd say compiling CVS should require python to sort the resources since the filename will change everytime someone changes the file, and CVS doesn't handle it very well
16:37 <wrtlprnft> source releases should heve the resources already sorted
16:37 <Luke-Jr> WFM
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> wfm = ?
16:37 <wrtlprnft> works for me?
16:37  * wrtlprnft is guessing
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> what fucking machine?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I know
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> whiffle flavored mothball
16:38 <wrtlprnft> we f*** microsoft
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> actually, it probably means Gentoo Kicks All Ass
16:38 <wrtlprnft> doesn't contain a W :(
16:39 <wrtlprnft> thanks Lucifer_arma for the sysop on the wiki
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I've got Administrator and Developer.  The thing already had authenticated user and anonymous user
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> any other roles needed?  I guess this is enough to test...
16:40 <Luke-Jr> Works For Me
16:40 <Luke-Jr> and Gentoo sucks
16:41 <wrtlprnft> yay i guessed right
16:41 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: does your opinion on gentoo have anything to do with the fact that Lucifer_arma is gonna use it now?
16:41 <Luke-Jr> and while I'm explaining crap, my views on resources would generally be weighed higher since I designed and debugged the concepts, and have a generally better view of the system
16:41 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> wasn't he already?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he loved it until I said I'd start installing it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> just because I use it doesn't mean I like it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> it just sucks least of the options
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: your views on resources would generally be weighed higher if you put your right hand on your left shoulder, your left hand on your right shoulder, and pulled as hard as you can, until you hear a popping noise.
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> That popping noise will be the sound of your head popping out of your ass.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> done cleaning up the wiki :)
16:45 <Luke-Jr> bbl
16:46 <wrtlprnft> if you were to update the wiki to some recent version we could delete revisions
16:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's anatomically impossible ;)
16:48 <wrtlprnft> i guess it wouldn't even really hurt
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I wonder if this liquid wiki module has some mechanism for dealing with spam
16:50 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with http
16:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [15:37:55] <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> no way, I posted this link after that:  http://armatest.davefancella.com/
16:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but that page has a home link :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> i already looked at it from school
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it does.  Umm, except I've been working on it in between talking trash at luke
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with password
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [13:00:02] <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ack
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with flower
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [12:59:41] <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> hahahaha
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ah, "flowers"
16:52 <wrtlprnft> forgot the s
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's my standard test password for development systems
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to remember, and brightens up debug output
16:52 <wrtlprnft> "my account" lol
16:53 <wrtlprnft> > Are you the real Player 1?
16:53 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
16:53 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, you like the slogan?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, where did that ticket buisness go?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> the toilet paper stuff
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> Projects
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> er, Downloads now
16:55 <wrtlprnft> downloads?!
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> hahaha
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
16:55 <wrtlprnft> well, you can't guess that i guess
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe just calling it Projects is better
16:56 <wrtlprnft> yeah
17:01 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
17:02 <wrtlprnft> my doog just hit the close button of my browser
17:02 <wrtlprnft> scratch one o
17:02 <Self_Destructo> hrm
17:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, yes, Self_Destructo, McSpiddles|zZzZz: the match on wednesday is cancelled
17:03 <Self_Destructo> my recent compilation of CVS HEAD made a 23.1 MB .exe file
17:03 <wrtlprnft> looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok
17:03 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles|zZzZz the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <wrtlprnft> ...
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:05 <wrtlprnft> *insert usual rant about people not sticking to one nick here*
17:05 <Self_Destructo> well, I do, normally
17:05 <Self_Destructo> and when I am here I will use Self_Destructo
17:05 <MaZuffeR> we (??) won CT 3-0 even if we let them play with 8 against only 6 of us :D
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 1st match was really tight
17:06 <wrtlprnft> you just have the best people ;)
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 100-92 iirc
17:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
17:07 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
17:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> that was a short supper
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I should go fix my outgoing mail server real quick and then post about this here test sight
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh, wasn't dinner, sorry.  I was playing on the "rants about people always changing their names"
17:08 <wrtlprnft> oh ok
17:09 -!- You're now known as pnttrfrwl
17:09 -!- You're now known as rtflwtpnr
17:09 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:10 <wrtlprnft> :D
17:13 -!- pavelo [n=pavelo@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Resource_System  <-- do a minor edit of this page to trigger a notification email for me
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh fuck, nvm
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, outgoing mail server fixed
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I got 35 emails for fixing it
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting more.  dammit
17:15 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> might hit it's upper limit of 150 emails, heh.
17:16  * n54 logs back into gmail
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> oh no.  haha.
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> sorry guys.  I had no idea....
17:16 <n54> misunderstanding?
17:16 <n54> I'e got 200+ mails waiting? XD
17:16 <wrtlprnft> does that mean you'll get them in portions of 150 mails a day until the buffer is flushed?
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, for people who've been editing pages on the wiki, they might get dumped with a lot of stashed email from when the connection broke between the mail server and no-ip
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> so, how do I flush the cache?
17:17 <n54> only one mail here :)
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm just going to blow it off
17:36 <wrtlprnft> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Spyware_infestation.png
17:37 <wrtlprnft> I'm missing the googlebar there
17:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["ut is wat ut is"]
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no-ip has disabled my outgoing account until tomorrow.  :(
17:49 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:49 <Self_Destructo> so what is the test website about?
17:51 <Self_Destructo> hm, seems to be a mix of a couple of CMS's
17:54 <n54> lol wrtlprnft that pic is insane XD
17:58 <n54> it's only drupal afaik Self_Destructo
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's only drupal
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: are you there right now?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, someone give me an email address they can check right now if I send an email to it
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> done
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks.  tell me if you get the email
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it just has subject and body "test"
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> never seen that kind of email bounce off a spam filter :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> got it
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool.
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> one more thing...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> ok, looks like no-ip didn't cut me off.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> got worried, I have to send invoices tomorrow, and I can't have my email locked
18:05 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I found how to clear the queue, and I figured it's been so long since the server worked that nobody would miss any of the emails it was holding
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now time to work on dinner :)
18:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
19:03 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetronad.net/
19:03 <wrtlprnft> did you ever pay attention to that "Online Servers" box?
19:03 <wrtlprnft> reload the page a few times and look :D
19:08 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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19:13 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: what about it?
19:25 <wrtlprnft> it changes :D
19:26 <Self_Destructo> no kidding
19:26 <Self_Destructo> #dict Etiquette
19:26 <armabot> Self_Destructo: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: etiquette n : rules governing socially acceptable behavior; gcide: Etiquette \Et"i*quette`\, n. [F. prop., a little piece of paper, or a mark or title, affixed to a bag or bundle, expressing its contents, a label, ticket, OF.estiquete, of German origin; cf. LG. stikke peg, pin, tack, stikken to stick, G. stecken. See {Stick}, and cf. (5 more messages)
19:26 <Self_Destructo> speel check
19:26 <Self_Destructo> spell*
20:00 -!- McSpiddles|zZzZz is now known as McSpiddles
20:00 <McSpiddles> whoa
20:00 <McSpiddles> i was out for along time
20:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:09 <ghableska> hello
20:09 <McSpiddles> hey ghab
20:09 <ghableska> hi McSpiddles
20:09 <McSpiddles> sup d00
20:09 <McSpiddles> d00d
20:10 <ghableska> not much...
20:10 <ghableska> you?
20:10 <McSpiddles> just waking up,lol
20:10 <ghableska> heh
20:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Quit in 0,527003 second(s)"]
21:11 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11  * Self_Destructo is back, obviously
21:15 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
21:16 <wrtlprnft> did you have any luck understanding my pseudocode?
21:25 <McSpiddles> qb
21:25 <McSpiddles> lol
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:28 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I haven't really had a chance to study it out
21:33 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:33 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: #ifndef ARMAGETRON_COCKPIT_H
21:33 <Self_Destructo> ???
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake --help
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake wrtlprnft
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:34 <Self_Destructo> armabot tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that should say ROTATION_H
21:49 <wrtlprnft> well, now you know where I copy and pasted from ;)
21:49 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: ping
21:50 <wrtlprnft> #wake Self_Destructo 
21:50 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:51 <Self_Destructo> i had to run outside for a sec
21:51 <wrtlprnft> ah
21:51 <wrtlprnft> i was playing arma :D
21:51 <Self_Destructo> I'm looking at your cockpit files to see kinda how you did things
21:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah. Change that include please...
21:51 <Self_Destructo> although, what I do probably wont even be near the same
21:52 <Self_Destructo> already done
21:52 <wrtlprnft> ok...
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, there's a *very* basic framework in gRotation
21:52 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:53 <Self_Destructo> my main deal will be how to get the data, and what to do after all the logic is done
21:53 <wrtlprnft> well
21:53 <Self_Destructo> i can get the logic in between easily
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the new round and new match i already handled for you
21:53 <wrtlprnft> that main gRotationTag tree will receive the right events
21:54 <Self_Destructo> static void cfcb(void) {
21:54 <Self_Destructo> gRotation::GetRotator().Parse();
21:54 <Self_Destructo> }
21:54 <wrtlprnft> the idea is that if the tag can do something with the event it got it does so, if not it hands it to its childs
21:54 <Self_Destructo> ?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> well
21:54 <wrtlprnft> gRotation is a class that will only have a single instance
21:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe later you can expand that to multiple instances and multiple rotation files
21:55 <wrtlprnft> go gRotation::GetRotator returns a pointer to the gRotation instance if it exists already
21:55 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't it creates one
21:56 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:56 <Self_Destructo> well
21:56 <Self_Destructo> i g2g
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ok, cya
21:56 <Self_Destructo> can we talk tomorrow?
21:56 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:56 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
21:56 <SD|away> ok
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:04 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!

Log from 2006-05-16:
--- Day changed Tue May 16 2006
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01:49 <z-man> #morning
01:49 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune:  Speer's 1st Law of Proofreading: || The visibility of an error is inversely proportional to the || number of times you have looked at it.
01:50 <guru3> woop
01:50 <guru3> my workstation's back in the game
01:50 <n54> morning z-man & guru3 :)
02:00 <guru3> good morning n54 
02:01 <n54> :)
02:01 <guru3> i could maybe get used to drupal
02:01 <guru3> if the links were more intuitive
02:02 <n54> but it's still metter than mediawiki right?
02:02 <n54> better*
02:02 <guru3> i don't know really
02:03 <n54> me neither really, it's just the impression I've got from others
02:04 <guru3> heh
02:04 <guru3> you know the aa.net domain name will expire in less than a month?
02:04 <guru3> i've got to remember to renew it
02:04 <guru3> toast- bbl
02:05 <n54> how much will it cost?
02:10 <guru3> back
02:10 <guru3> around $35
02:10 <guru3> we've gotten enough donations to cover it though :)
02:11 <n54> ok good :) I'd chip in otherwise
02:11 <n54> did you post about at the forum or did it all happen so quick that wasn't even neccessary+
02:11 <n54> about it*
02:24 <guru3> nah no need to bother everyone
02:24 <guru3> we've got $$ for the domain for a few years now
02:24 <guru3> this one guy was very generous
02:24 <guru3> or his finger slipped on the keyboard
02:25 <guru3> either way he donated $200
02:25 <guru3> and so is essentially single handedly keeping us in buisness
02:25 <guru3> or at least being a key part of it
02:25 <n54> yikes :D well thanks to whoever that was :)
02:27 <guru3> yeah
02:48 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:49  * z-man hopes everyone is OK with the sudden materialization of the SVN migration decision
02:57 <guru3> i'm off to study
02:57 <guru3> cu
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--- Log opened Tue May 16 07:39:10 2006
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07:40 <wrtlprnft> grr
07:40 <wrtlprnft> forgot to plug in my notebook overnight
07:52 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, good luck to guru3 :)
08:10 <LuciEatsPeople> hoo-hoo, I got an A in my Texas Government class
08:10 <LuciEatsPeople> ummm
08:11 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
08:14 <GodTodd> congrats :)
08:28 <guru3> home
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> so how'd it go?
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> why is it that when I ask people to do really hard things, they do it without question, but if I ask people to do easy things, they refuse and try to fight about it?
08:33 <GodTodd> maybe the challenge/learning factor?
08:38 <guru3> not too bad
08:38 <guru3> i finnished kinda quickly
08:39 <guru3> but oh well
08:40 <guru3> ain't fuck i can do about it now :D
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> heh, challenge/learning factor...  I've asked for two simple things.  :)
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> 1.  That my wife close our bedroom door.  This is a request that's been outstanding for 10 years now.  She just won't fucking do it!
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> 2.  Well, it's on the forums now.  acme yadayada
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> I could ask my wife to do the brakes on my car.  She'd do it, with a little arguing.
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> But no amount of fighting will get her to close our bedroom door!
08:44 <GodTodd> well...as far as women....hard to tell why they do or don't do what they do or don't do :D
08:45 <GodTodd> that's one user manual i would NOT want to write heh
08:45 <guru3> haha
08:45 <z-man-work> All I'm asking for is an OFF button :)
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:45 <guru3> can't you settle for the sleep one?
08:45 <z-man-work> Or mute, anyway
08:45 <GodTodd> hell...i'd take a mute myself
08:45 <GodTodd> :D
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: not sure what's going on with releases.  There's a checkbox that if I click, browsing projects stops working the way you'd expect it to
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think that not clicking it causes new releases not to work
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's a very weird module, this Project module is
08:47  * z-man-work agrees
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/admin/settings/project  <-- here, you fuck with it :)
08:48 <z-man-work> which button is it?
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> Actually it's a text box, Release Directory
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> options that probably work are /www/homeFiles, /www/home/files
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> both of those are writeable by the web user
08:49 <z-man-work> so if set, people would be supposed to upload their files there, then register a release for it?
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think so.  It has something to do with releases being generated by some other tool
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> eave this blank if project maintainers are to create their own release packages. This is useful if releases are generated by an external tool.
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely certain what that means, but it might mean that filling it disables creating releases
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> but if you don't fill it, then the browser stops working.
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the browser may filter out projects that don't have releases, but that wouldn't be expected behavior.  I'd consider that a bug, in fact.
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> Browse projects by releases  <-- this text box seems to have something to do with it too, but I have no idea what
08:53 <z-man-work> Well, definitely, the upload of a file doesn't work
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> any idea where it's trying to put files?
09:00 <z-man-work> No, it looks like it's not even trying to upload the file
09:01 <z-man-work> If I select a file in my home directory, the link it tries to access it by later is http://armatest.davefancella.com/<fileanme>
09:01 <z-man-work> It can't possibly be a Firefox incompatibility, or can it?
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> right, problem is, I don't want files put there.  Well, that's not a big problem, except that it seems that Project doesn't want to let me pick where to put files
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> I can't imagine it being a Firefox incompatibility.
09:08 <z-man-work> I'm slowly, very slowly getting the hang of it
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  did you figure out how to make it put files somewhere besides the root?
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> this is only for Project, mind you.  The other modules seem to be doing fine respecting their upload locations.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> there's supposed to be an api for file uploads that modules are supposed to use, which allows a global setting for file uploads
09:11 <z-man-work> but Project doesn't use it?
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> apparently not
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh
09:12 <z-man-work> The file slot probably isn't really an upload thingie after all
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they have a good reason for it.  It looks like they use it for issues, I just made the issues directory under files
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> then why the browse button?
09:14 <z-man-work> Beats me
09:14 <z-man-work> entering an URI also doesn't work:
09:14 <z-man-work> http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/21/release
09:15 <z-man-work> The intended usage really seems to be: upload file via ftp/scp to the server, and add the path to it in the release
09:15 <z-man-work> this is worse than aabeta :)
09:16 <Lucifer_arma>  /files/home/part3/moos/x   <--- is this a local path on your machine?
09:16 <z-man-work> Or perhaps you're supposed to generate the release files from within the system
09:16 <z-man-work> yes, a local path
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  Ummmm........
09:16 <z-man-work> that's what Konqueror's file selection item put in there
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> scp is out of the question for this.  I'm not making ssh accounts for everybody on this machine, and that's not sustainable for us anyway
09:16 <z-man-work> But without uploading anything, of course
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> anonymous ftp might work, though.
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> that or hacking Project to just take uploads through the website...
09:17  * Lucifer_arma goes looking at the source
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> why do file upload ui's have to suck so much?  :(
09:24  * Lucifer_arma whines
09:28 <z-man-work> Without knowing the details, I'd say Luke would say that it's because browser based file uploads are broken in concept.
09:28 <z-man-work> Dunno, perhaps he'd be right.
09:31 <z-man-work> But, Lucifer_arma:does that mean that at least, the thing is supposed to be a file upload?
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> it looks like a file upload, doesn't it?  :)
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> I really believe it's supposed to be a file upload, which means it's either broken because it's not, or it's a bug that it doesn't work, or that it's just poorly written
09:35 <Lucifer_arma> also, either they went to some considerable trouble to put a button that says "Browse" on there, or they actually used a file upload widget on the page
09:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to get the damn form to reappear so I can look at the page source and see which it is :)
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's annoying.  I got it to show the form again, but when I view source I get a different page.  Apparently firefox doesn't make view page source part of the same session,
09:37 <Lucifer_arma> so Drupal gives me an access denied message instead :(
09:39 <Lucifer_arma> DOM inspector dug it out, it's a file upload widget for sure
09:41 <z-man-work> Hmm, but usually, my browsers warn be before a file is actually uploaded. Here, they don't.
09:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's definitely a file upload widget, but none of the api calls needed to treat it as such are there
09:46  * Lucifer_arma has been grepping and googling to figure that out :)
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know why your browser's not warning you.  Maybe you've told it to trust this server before?
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> try attaching a file to an issue and see what happens
09:47  * Lucifer_arma goes to find out himself
09:48 <Lucifer_arma> file uploads work for issues
09:49 <z-man-work> yes, and it doesn't warn me there
09:49 <z-man-work> so the non-warning is not an issue
09:50  * z-man-work is testing in konqueror
09:51 <z-man-work> Aha, konqueror is warning me about an upload with the issues
09:52 <z-man-work> So something must be wrong on the document level
09:52 <z-man-work> (minimally)
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> I found the form generator for issues so I could see what a working file upload looked like :)
09:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, the release form is being generated as a file uploader....  where's the handler?  Must have missed it
09:54 <guru3> haha i just noticed sound still isn't working on my workstation ><
09:54 <z-man-work> I couldn't spot a relevant difference in the HTML of the issue and release submission pages ;(
09:55  * z-man-work is a noob
09:58 <z-man-work> Hacked a working release :) http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/21/release#version-2.0
10:01 <Lucifer_arma> did you upload the file as a release attachment?
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think I've figured out what's broke
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> it's trying to handle file uploads through the web form and file uploads through an external system through the same system
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> gforge made the same mistake and I had to hack it out of it for sugar's installation
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I should do the same thing for Project.  :(
10:06 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the end result is that the complete path to the file as sent by the browser is getting stored in the database, and then that path is just dumped to the page
10:08 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be a nontrivial hack
10:10 <z-man-work> What I did was attach the release file to an issue, and later enter the server's file path in the "upload" box on the release form
10:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's what I suspected.  :)
10:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I submitted a bug for it.  It's a nontrivial hack, so I'll have to worry about it later today, or maybe in a couple of days.
10:11 <z-man-work> k
10:11  * Lucifer_arma reminds himself to unzip the original source in another directory so he can start making patches.
10:11 <Lucifer_arma> I guess if I'm going to hack it I should put it in a svn repo somewhere, heh
10:18 <Lucifer_arma> does svn let you delete a branch?
10:21 <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking it would be easier to delete the openAL branch and recreate it when I'm ready to start working on it again than to ask Luke-Jr to just not import it
10:23 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: yes, but that plan doesn't sound like it makes sense... but you're the guy working on the branch, so it's your call
10:24 <Luke-Jr> as with everything else, it should be imported to complete history
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: it's apparently not my call for acme, heh.
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> there's a time and place to worry about history, and letting our new svn repo get bloated for the sake of history probably isn't it
10:24 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you *could* delete acme-pygame after the import-- but then it blocks anyone else from continuing it, or keeping the old release tags and such
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> historians don't use SCM...
10:24 <Lucifer_arma> there aren't any release tags
10:24 <Luke-Jr> the purpose of a SCM is history
10:24 <Luke-Jr> oh
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> there's just the original import plus a few commits
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> and that's *it*
10:25 <Lucifer_arma> same with the openAL branch
10:25 <Luke-Jr> well then that makes it even easier to just move it aside
10:26 <Luke-Jr> but in the case of an abandoned/dead branch, I'd figure just delete it once the import is done
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, with the openAL branch, it needs to have cvs head merged back into it before more work can proceed, and while it should go smoothly, I'd still prefer to avoid it
10:26 <Lucifer_arma> openAL isn't abandoned or dead.  :)  Just that a lot of work has happened since it was made to render it very difficult to work with.  So when I restart it, I'd like to restart it fresh.
10:27 <Lucifer_arma> I'd also like to rethink how the source for it is organized, I'm considering the possibility of leaving the SDL_mixer sound engine for the sake of reducing dependencies.
10:28 <Luke-Jr> same thing
10:28 <Luke-Jr> *that* go at OpenAL is dead =p
10:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sure.  :)  Except I'll be starting from the same code for the next one.  Heh.
10:30 <Lucifer_arma> I also want to see if I can do my file reading through SDL_audio, which is part of SDL iirc.  That way I don't have to deal with ogg and mp3 and stuff
10:52 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: of course, it *is* your call for acme
10:52 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
10:53 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: I'm curious, what exactly do you mean when you say "delete old/unused branches and tags"?
10:53 <z-man-work> What happens to them? Are they moved to some sort of attic or really deleted in SVN (which doesn't make them inaccessible, I know)
10:53 <z-man-work> hi philippeqc 
10:53 <philippeqc> hi z-man
10:54 <philippeqc> how are you
10:54 <z-man-work> And what's the criterion for selecting the things to prune?
10:54 <z-man-work> behind today's todo schedule, but fine, and you?
10:55  * z-man-work doesn't like polite greetings in IRC, compares them to SPAM
10:55 <philippeqc> just came home, bicycled from work,
10:55 <philippeqc> lol, 
10:56 <philippeqc> just saw your post about subversion, decided now I should _really_ pay attention to it, seeing the bold text comment ;)
10:57 <z-man-work> hehe, yes, that's why I did that :)
10:58 <z-man-work> And right at the beginning of the tread, when it isn't fragmented by our usual trench fights and nobody is reading it any more
10:58 <philippeqc> sorry I didnt follow the discussions about versioning tools. I realised I didnt have the time required to really participate in the testing and comparing.
10:58 <z-man-work> No problem. We'll be fine with central subversion
10:59 <z-man-work> a lot of people are using it and are happy with it, so it'll work for us as well
10:59 <z-man-work> And it's really easy to switch from CVS to SVN
10:59 <philippeqc> you/someone should publish the equivalent of sf's "how to cvs if your anonymous or a developer"
11:00 <z-man-work> Aren't there docs about it on SF?
11:00 <z-man-work> Or at least a link to the official SVN docs?
11:02 <philippeqc> just saw the bit of your post where you mention that SVN will run from SF, and realised they must have it ;)
11:03 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: delete the stuff we don't need to keep
11:03 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: which leaves them only in history
11:03 <z-man-work> With "svn delete"?
11:03 <Luke-Jr> yes
11:03 <z-man-work> ok, but isn't that a bit silly for tags?
11:03 <Luke-Jr> hm?
11:03 <z-man-work> or are VERSION tags excluded?
11:04 <Luke-Jr> version tags/branches won't be deleted
11:04 <Luke-Jr> just useless stuff
11:04 <z-man-work> That was my second question :)
11:04 <Luke-Jr> in fact, if some non-version tag/branch *isn't* useless, please mention it ;)
11:04 <z-man-work> So the helper tags that I used for merging the right stuff from b0_2_8 to the trunk will be gone, but not v0_2_8_1.
11:05 <Luke-Jr> the "_merged_to_" stuff? yeah
11:05 <Luke-Jr> well, except that there's no cleanup stage post-aa/aa import
11:05 <z-man-work> I wouldn't remember any useful one, but I'll check with cvs log
11:05 <Luke-Jr> but I could add it =p
11:05  * Luke-Jr imagines cvs log would make such hard to notice
11:06 <McSpiddles> man,on this test book i almost put my name down as spidey :/
11:06 <Luke-Jr> LOL
11:07 <z-man-work> cvs log lists all the tags right at the start :)
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> ?  but those tags are history...
11:07 <z-man-work> Glancing over them, no, at least in armagetronad, the non-version tags are obsolete
11:08 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, and they'll be preserved in history, but not in the list people get when they browse for tags
11:08 <z-man-work> Makes sense to me :)
11:08  * Lucifer_arma smiles facetiously
11:09 <z-man-work> The Root_ tags may be useful still, unless SVN has an easy way to find the branching revision of a branch
11:09 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: and they will remain in history
11:10 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: how about the 'z-man' branch? ;)
11:10 <z-man-work> There is a z-man branch???
11:10 <Luke-Jr> in the original project
11:10 <Luke-Jr> network_priority
11:10 <Luke-Jr> network-rework
11:10 <z-man-work> oh
11:10 <z-man-work> Gee, I can't remember that one
11:11 <z-man-work> I guess it's safe to say they're dead
11:11 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: I think I did a commit some time about for code for my thesis, THAT you can just remove!
11:11 <Luke-Jr> 'start'
11:11 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: wtf?
11:12 <philippeqc> It might have already been removed from cvs, but it was a branch/project that used the wrong cvs setting, and intead of going to a comp at uni, went to AA
11:12 <Luke-Jr> O.o
11:12 <Luke-Jr> 'lala'?
11:12 <z-man-work> My motto with old stuff is that if I can't remember it even existed, it's junk :)
11:13 <philippeqc> that sound like my stuff
11:13 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: how about the network stuff and 'start' tag?
11:13 <z-man-work> I can't remember them
11:13 <Luke-Jr> o
11:13 <Luke-Jr> so drop?
11:13 <z-man-work> yes
11:13 <z-man-work> I surely won't go back and do work on them
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> I have a special directory I for old, abandoned code, because I do go back to it a fair amount and dig up stuff that I need now.  :)
11:14 <Lucifer_arma> the pygame-based acme is there now, heh
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> here's the thing.  I don't object to acme coming into the svn repository, I object to having to ask a project admin to email sourceforge and ask them to delete it...
11:15 <z-man-work> Now that I have both of your attention: if Lucifer_arma says acme should be dropped, then Luke-Jr should drop it
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> or having to spend considerable time rearranging it
11:16 <Lucifer_arma> so if I don't have to do either of those things to do the restructuring I want, then I don't actually care if it's brought in
11:16 <philippeqc> subversion required 2 exclusives libs here. Their descriptions are lib64svn_fs_base1_0:"FS implementation using BDB for Subversion" and  lib64svn_fs_fs1_0:"FS implementation using FSFS backend for Subversion".  I cant make sense of that. Which one should I use?
11:16 <Lucifer_arma> like, if I could just "svndelete *" and start fresh, I'm cool with that.
11:16 <z-man-work> What kind of rearranging do you have in mind? SVN supports file moves.
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> one file at a time rearranging :)
11:17 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: svn delete also works :)
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> because in cvs, I could delete all the files and add the new ones, but that's a lot of work
11:17 <z-man-work> I guess in SVN, you can recursively delete everything
11:17 <Lucifer_arma> a lot of work I don't want to do, I'd rather have a new module for it.  Then you get into having an acme and an acme-qt/current/whatever module
11:18 <z-man-work> philippeqc: I guess this decision is only important if you want to run the svn server
11:18 <Lucifer_arma> so anyway, if I could just delete the acme module and import a new one from here, I don't really care.  It's just diskspace, then.  But you see the dilemma with cvs, right?
11:18 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you don't need to do either of those, no
11:19 <philippeqc> z-man-work: That was the only guess I could formulate. 
11:19 <Lucifer_arma> and I was waiting to deal with it until I had a working pyqt version :)
11:19 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I would just be doing 'svn move .../acme/trunk .../acme/branches/acme-pygame', and then you'd import the new stuff into trunk
11:19 <z-man-work> philippeqc: perhaps there is a svn-client module you can install?
11:19 <philippeqc> I guess the server will be of type "svnserve" and not "http/dav"
11:19 <z-man-work> Otherwise, the choice doesn't matter, and FSFS probably has less dependency overhead
11:20 <philippeqc> z-man-work: that is what I'm doing, but it has some dependencies that have exclusive choices ;)
11:20 <z-man-work> Wait, so you have a conflict and can't work around it?
11:21 <Lucifer_arma> you're using Mandriva, right philippeqc ?
11:21 <philippeqc> no no, it offers me choice between 2 lib for the fs, and 3 lib for the type of access. 
11:21 <philippeqc> yes Lucifer_arma 
11:21 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, after the import, you can just move the old module out of your way
11:22 <philippeqc> seing that the server access seems exclusive of other, and one is "local", I can safely ignore this one. But if we have a http/dav or svnserve server seems to be the important decision to be made.
11:22 <Luke-Jr> so what is the verdict on:
11:22 <Luke-Jr> branches: world-0-1, soundOpenAL, shaped_arenas, keyauth, connector-a, b0_2_8_map, b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:23 <z-man-work> keyauth is yours, I recon
11:23 <Luke-Jr> tags: v0_2_7_0_before_security_fixes, v0_2_7_0_after_security_fixes, rc8, rc7, rc6, rc5, rc3, keyauth_root
11:23 <philippeqc> world* shaped* connector* can go
11:23 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: is it? hehe; I forget
11:23 <z-man-work> b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode have all been merged back
11:24 <z-man-work> connector-a and world-0-1 are philippeqc's
11:24 <philippeqc> b0_2_8_map is actual development code, so there is the history factor, but otherwise I really dont mind
11:24 <philippeqc> but I dont think I was the onlyone involved on b0_2_8, so others might have a say on it
11:25 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: everything is remaining in history
11:25 <z-man-work> The rc tags were planned to be replacable for new releases. Junk.
11:25 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so they aren't actual RCs?
11:26 <z-man-work> v0_2_7_0_before_security_fixes, v0_2_7_0_after_security_fixes were used to backport the security fixes in 0.2.7, which gives them an almonst-version like character. But they won't be used any more, so they're junk, too.
11:26 <z-man-work> the rc tags were real rc's of
11:26 <philippeqc> you can drop them then. The work done there isnt worth anything, and really not worth trying to merge it with head. And it will clear up the number of branches
11:27 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so how about I rename those to
11:27 <z-man-work> If yoy like
11:27 <z-man-work> you
11:27 <z-man-work> oh, will all the release tags get *proper* names like that?
11:27 <Luke-Jr> just thought of that
11:28 <Luke-Jr> 4c =p
11:28 <Luke-Jr> or maybe it should be pre-4a
11:28 <z-man-work> eh?
11:28 <Luke-Jr> a new stage
11:28 <z-man-work> ah
11:28 <z-man-work> I'd make it 4c
11:29 <z-man-work> because by then, you have reworked the hierarchy so the renaming is less work
11:29 <Luke-Jr> O.o it is?
11:30 <z-man-work> Not really, we didn't have the auxiliary modules when we made, iirc
11:30 <Luke-Jr> so anyway... soundOpenAL, b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:31 <z-man-work> You heard Lucifer_arma on soundOpenAL, he'd like to restart it anew. The others are only of historical insterest.
11:31 <z-man-work> interest
11:32 <z-man-work> Would there be a harm in moving the stuff you'd delete into a "Historical" section instead?
11:32 <z-man-work> Apart from people fetching the whole repository getting all that old junk downloaded?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> what the hell does it take to establish residency?!?
11:33 <z-man-work> ?
11:33 <z-man-work> context?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's considered a resident, my kids are going to public schools here, and I've been here for nearly 2 years again
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> school
11:33 <z-man-work> and you're not considered resident?
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'm self-employed, and never bothered to get a tax id number
11:34 <z-man-work> ah
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> so I don't have a local employer
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't get a texas driver's license right away, in fact I just got it yesterday
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> didn't register to vote, the nearest elections of interest were several years out still
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> didn't register any cars in my name, it wasn't necessary and it was much more convenient for my wife to go do it
11:34 <z-man-work> Well, if they have no documents of you, you don't exist.
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> argh
11:35 <Luke-Jr> I don't exist either
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> I signed a lease, opened a bank account with a local credit union
11:35 <z-man-work> Anybody could do that
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> she's going to bend the rules and take the lease, the bank account, and a letter I need to get written by someone who knows me
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> she said because of my record, so I guess a 4.0 GPA is worth *something*  :)
11:35 <Luke-Jr> at least you have ID
11:36 <z-man-work> She? The office lady?
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> my washington license still had a year on it when I got here.  When you intend to reside in a place for a considerable amount of time, it matters not if you do the documentation right away
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the admissions lady I just talked to on the phone.  It's frustrating because back in November, about two years ago, they said "just the last page of your lease is enough to establish residency"
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> so I didn't even *think* I needed more thn that, right?
11:37 <z-man-work> right
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> this past November, "a bank account and your lease is enough"
11:37 <Luke-Jr> hm
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> so again, no reason to even *think* I needed more
11:37 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if I could get ID with my lease
11:37 <z-man-work> Hooray for the German system, if we don't register with the town six weeks after a move, we're fined.
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> just now, "well, that's not enough either".
11:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: sucks
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> technically I'm suppposed to pay a fine for my driver's license renewal, but since I let it expire and took the test fresh, no fine
11:38 <z-man-work> sort of, but it protects us against such mishaps
11:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: a lease *should* be enough to prove residency
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> so when I got pissed, she caved and made a compromise that won't be a problem for me.  :)
11:39 <z-man-work> I can imagine that.
11:39 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: getting pissed can sometimes help
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> I understand their reasoning, and I understand that for 99% of the people going to school, it's not a problem.
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> and if I had caved and got a real job when I moved here, it wouldn't have been a problem.  Heh.
11:40 <Luke-Jr> pfft
11:40 <Luke-Jr> self-employment is real
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> you'd think "independent" Texans would respect that.
11:40  * Lucifer_arma wipes sarcasm off his chin
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they'd have cared if the company I mostly work for wasn't based in California, haha
11:41 <Lucifer_arma> if it was Dell, they'd fall over backwards trying to please me, I shit you not
11:42 <Luke-Jr> grr
11:42 <Luke-Jr> cvs2svn seems to suck somewhat
11:42 <Lucifer_arma> most converters suck somewhat
11:42 <Luke-Jr> apparently it doesn't detect renames/copies, not even for brnaching
11:43 <z-man-work> Umm, because they don't exist in CVS?
11:43 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: it can still detect them
11:43 <Luke-Jr> and *should* for a branch
11:43 <z-man-work> And if two files are just coincidentally equal, making it a move operation would be wrong?
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> it should detect the branch, I think
11:43 <Lucifer_arma> but not copies or renames.  :)
11:44 <Luke-Jr> oh well, I have ~2 weeks to figure something out I guess
11:44 <Lucifer_arma> well, wait a minute.  branching doesn't really exist in svn either, does it?
11:44 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: what do you mean by "branching" here?
11:45 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2F&rev=0&sc=1&isdir=1
11:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: branching is a copy
11:45 <Lucifer_arma> right, but it's fundamentally different in cvs and svn, possibly incompatibly different
11:46 <z-man-work> And it looks like it made b0_2_8 a real branch, there are revisions missing
11:47 <Luke-Jr> at least it seems to have tracked the changes within the branch
11:47 <Luke-Jr> http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2Farmagetronad%2Fsrc%2Ftron%2FgGame.cpp&rev=0&sc=1&isdir=0
11:48 <z-man-work> Oh wait, does "branching does not work" mean that the start point of a branch will look like a new import?
11:48 <Lucifer_arma> it should be a copy operation, shouldn't it?
11:49 <z-man-work> It does seem to preserve the full history
11:50 <z-man-work> http://beta.armagetronad.net/websvn/log.php?repname=AA&path=%2Fbranches%2Fb0_2_8%2Farmagetronad%2Fsrc%2Ftron%2FgGame.cpp&rev=3624&sc=1&page=4
11:50 <z-man-work> There is the branching point
11:50  * Luke-Jr notices the "Show All" link
11:50 <Luke-Jr> oops
11:50 <z-man-work> It's quite a long history :)
11:51 <Luke-Jr> nm
11:51 <Luke-Jr> 2186  /branches/b0_2_8/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp     287d 23h  4m  This commit was manufactured by cvs2svn to create branch 'b0_2_8'.
11:51 <Luke-Jr> 2102  /trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp  z-man  300d 18h 18m  Improved exception handling in the ingame menu
11:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/SvnIntro  <-- should probably link that on the forums
11:52  * z-man-work is now really away
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that I like the way tags are handled by svn
11:52 <Luke-Jr> ...
11:52 <Luke-Jr> why
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: WAIT!
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: are we dropping the Root tags?
11:53 <z-man-work> Would they be required to get to the root of a branch?
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's supposed to be a pointer to a snapshot of the source, right?  not the same thing as a copy of the snapshot at that time
11:53 <z-man-work> If yes, no, if no, then yes :)
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> no, they're not, I don't think
11:53 <z-man-work> I don't think, either
11:53 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: no, you'd just need to note the revision that the branch was made
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, I read on the svn site that to get to the root of the branch, just look in the log to the revision that starts the branch
11:54 <z-man-work> Then they're junk
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> then check out that revision
11:54 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yes, I'd imagine that would be possible
11:54 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: a copy is a pointer in Svn
11:54 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: until you modify something in the copy
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> right, I think the root tags thing shows what tags are for :)
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> you not only go to the root of the branch, but you go there and then step forward from it
11:55 <z-man-work> Err, no
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> which, granted, is probably still possible starting with a copy
11:55 <Lucifer_arma> no?
11:55 <z-man-work> The Root_ tags are on the parent branch
11:55 <z-man-work> At least the ones I created manually
11:56 <z-man-work> I don't know about the ones Eclipse made
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhh.  Ok.  doesn't change what I meant, but ok, I didn't really know what the Root_ tags were then :)
11:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: so you would rather delete the openAL branch instead of do a merge from HEAD?
11:56 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: yes
11:56 <Luke-Jr> ok
11:56 <z-man-work> Gaa, don't merge things from HEAD into branches
11:56 <Luke-Jr> so how about b0_2_7_1_recording, b0_2_7_1_netcode, b0_2_7_0_netcode, b0_2_7_0_invisiblewalls, aardvark_automake_br
11:56 <z-man-work> All merged back
11:57 <Luke-Jr> so delete?
11:57 <z-man-work> yes
11:57 <Luke-Jr> ok
11:57  * z-man-work hopes Luke-Jr is taking notes
11:57 <Luke-Jr> done w/ the arma modules, then
11:57  * Luke-Jr is
11:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the way I'm thinking about handling OpenAL, if it works out, means I won't need a branch anyway
11:57 <Luke-Jr> o
11:57  * Lucifer_arma keeps two logs of the channel, and grep is the best note-taker
11:58 <Luke-Jr> grep loses context ;)
11:58 <Lucifer_arma> -B -A :)
11:58 <z-man-work> grep -C 10 ?
11:59 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  I pissed off my government teacher when he said something, then I told him that was different than what he'd said 2 weeks ago, and he said it wasn't,
11:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I grepped my notes and read off exactly what he said 2 weeks ago.  :)
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> man, I need to write my notetaker program.  I want it to record at the same time and timestamp notes, so in that situation I could have even played the recording for him to hear himself saying it.
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> but alas, no note-taker program yet
12:02 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: IIRC, you have questions on the forum =p
12:03 <Luke-Jr> yeah... winlibs stuff
12:05 <z-man-work> winlibs is closely coupled to our releases
12:05 <z-man-work> You can't build 0.2.8 with winlibs 0.2.7
12:05 <z-man-work> you may have a chance to build 0.2.7 with winlibs 0.2.8, but it's slim :)
12:06 <z-man-work> Yeah, it's just a collection of librarties, but quite essential for the convenience of the Windows builders
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> seems like in the future we should "tag" winlibs with codenames :)
12:07 <z-man-work> Because it's HELL to install and use libraries in Win :)
12:07 <Lucifer_arma> so you'd need Artemis winlibs to build Artemis (0.2.8), and bachus winlibs to build head, until we release bacchus
12:07 <z-man-work> IIRC, there were minor changes to winlibs even in b0_2_8
12:08 <z-man-work> minor == reverting from SDL 1.2.9 to 1.2.7
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> right, so there'd be a latest revision of winlibs under Artemis
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12:08 <Lucifer_arma> and an earlier revision, eh?
12:08  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know the full scope of the problem, mind you.
12:08 <z-man-work> minded
12:08 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: and the libs aren't at least theoretically interchangable?
12:08 <z-man-work> theoretically, they are
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> wasn't the SDl reversion because of an SDL bug?
12:09 <z-man-work> yes
12:09 <z-man-work> Although reverting probably didn't fix it
12:09 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: so perhaps split winlibs into tags/trunk?
12:09 <z-man-work> or it wasn't done properly, anyway, it wasn't an important bug
12:09 <Luke-Jr> or do you need branches?
12:10 <z-man-work> yes, winlibs needs branches
12:10 <z-man-work> what's the problem with treating it exactly like armagetronad_build?
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, assuming it worked for the sake of discussion, the libraries are interchangeable, just that iwth one verison you might be affected by a certain bug caused by the underlying library, right?
12:10 <z-man-work> ok, assuming that
12:10 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: if I checkout the entire 'armagetronad' project trunk, I'd rather not get dlls =p
12:11  * Lucifer_arma notes that dll's in windows don't suffer the same ABI problems so's in Linux suffer from
12:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: the only shared object with such problems I have seen is DirectFB =p
12:11 <guru3> abi?
12:11 <guru3> all bullshit industries?
12:11 <guru3> x)
12:11 <Luke-Jr> guru3: binary compatibility
12:11 <guru3> aw :( that's no fun
12:11 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: yes, that's a point
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> aliases are needed.  It would be nice if you could have an alias to check out all that's needed for windows :)
12:11 <z-man-work> hmm
12:12 <z-man-work> aliases would be cool
12:12 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: ABI is the format of the library, or something like that.  It's why you can't link to a library built with gcc 2.9 while building with gcc 4.0
12:12 <z-man-work> but I suppose you'd need symlinks for that
12:12 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: at least, for C++ libraries, anyway
12:12 <guru3> they're only called aliases in osx. links in *nix and shortcuts in windows
12:12 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: because GCC 2.9's ABI had bugs =p
12:12 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: those bugs were all resolved in 3.3 or such, IIRC
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> and gcc 3.0, nd gcc 3.1, and gcc 3.2, and what a fucking mess
12:13 <Luke-Jr> so don't use pre-3.3
12:13 <z-man-work> Aw, I give in. If both Luke-Jr and Lucifer_arma say winlibs isn't equal to the _build things, than it can stay out
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> as usual Luke, that's orthogonal to the discussion
12:13 <z-man-work> then
12:13 <Lucifer_arma> eh?  keeping in mind that I don't know the scope of the problem, heh :)
12:14  * Luke-Jr notes neither Lucifer_arma nor Luke-Jr use Windoze ;)
12:14 <z-man-work> Yes, but what you said was nevertheless true
12:14 <Luke-Jr> ok
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, my point about ABI was that you don't have that problem with dll's in windows, just the link libraries, and Microsoft intentionally changes those to break compatibility for other compilers :)
12:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: actually, you do sometimes
12:15 <Luke-Jr> I can't use a MingW DLL from Cygwin
12:15 <z-man-work> Would SVN allow it to check the entire "armagetronad" trunk with all _build subdirectories, and put winlibs *into* that checkout?
12:15 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: probably
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: gcc problems again.  :)
12:16 <z-man-work> Not so important, anyway, there would be no loss of comfort if I'd have to check out armagetronad, armagetronad_build_codeblocks and armagetronad_winlibs separately
12:16 <z-man-work> because that's what I have to do in CVS
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> seems like if we could put symlinks into svn, we could solve that problem
12:17 <z-man-work> Windows doesn't have symlinks
12:17 <z-man-work> last time I checked, anyway
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> windows doesn't need it, the client doesn't need it at all.
12:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Svn supports symlinks, but only under *nix
12:17 <guru3> i have to know about the psychology of dysfunctional behaivour tomorrow :/
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> because you'd check out a symlink, but get the underlying directories.
12:17 <z-man-work> guru3: you've come to the right place :)
12:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: if you checkout a symlink under windoze, you get nothing
12:17 <Lucifer_arma> or rather, in my world, that's how it would work
12:17 <guru3> lol z-man
12:17 <Luke-Jr> complain to Svn idiots
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> if you checked out a symlink you'd get the file/directory itself instead :)
12:18  * Lucifer_arma looks at the purple sky.  My world rules!
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: what do you have to know about dysfunctional behavior?
12:19  * z-man-work is really really away?
12:19 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: aww
12:19 <Luke-Jr> no you're not
12:19 <z-man-work> what else?
12:19 <z-man-work> It's late and I want to go swimming after I finish some work up
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like you'll get contaminated by the evil sunrays
12:20 <z-man-work> darn, that makes Luke-Jr right
12:20 <Lucifer_arma> hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day
12:20 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: unfortunately, the outside pool is still closed because the harsh winter demolished quite a lot of tiles
12:21 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: lots :/
12:23 <guru3> like anorexia falls into that category
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, you know, I don't have any problems checking out a whole slew of dll's--if it'll make it easier for windows developers to get involved in development
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> or testers.
12:26  * Lucifer_arma is thinking of Self_Destructo trying to build armagetron
12:26 <guru3> i just found some ASM in my psy notes Oo
12:26 <guru3> musta been when i was researching asm for my calc ><
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> because it's a one-time checkout, right?
12:27 <guru3> you need to depressed for TWO weeks before anyone cares :D
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> well guru3, I don't think I can help you with this one for two reasons.  :)  1: need specific range, and 2: it's been a year since I took my psych class, I couldn't give answers in the detail you need anyway
12:27 <guru3> that's the official diagnostic criteriea
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> only 2 weeks?
12:27 <guru3> according to DSM4
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> it's just like you have to be missing for 24 hours before the cops care :)
12:28 <z-man-work> Lucifer_arma: yeah, but you also get updates etc. No, it doesn't make life of Developers significantly easier.
12:28 <guru3> and you can't be depressed if you've had a manic episode
12:28 <guru3> i love this categorization
12:28 <guru3> it's hillarious
12:28 <guru3> it's like playing monopoly :D
12:28 <guru3> you're not allowed to be depressed if someone's died you know
12:29 <guru3> or if you're psycotic or schizophrenic
12:30 <guru3> and if you're not impared by your depression you're not depressed :D
12:30 <guru3> and you have to feel guilty
12:31 <guru3> and if you're depressed there's a 5% chance that it's cause there's something even more screwed up with you
12:31 <guru3> this stuff just kills me :D
12:31 <guru3> and watch out being depressed over 55%
12:31 <guru3> you've got a 60% chance of comitting suicide!
12:31 <guru3> yikes!
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> I found studying depression was in itself a depressing experience
12:32 <guru3> get this
12:32 <guru3> you can't get depression from street drugs
12:32 <guru3> but using street drugs makes depression worse
12:32 <guru3> oh what a fun merry go round!
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: updates are few and far between, though.  but if it doesn't help much....
12:33 <guru3> g2g dinner
12:33 <guru3> bbl
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12:49 <Luke-Jr> any win dev here? z-man-work ?
12:50 <Luke-Jr> is winlibs specific to build/visualc?
13:07 <guru3> back
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit.  I got an 89 on the test I intentionally bombed, and a 92 on the test I intentionally didn't bomb.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> luckily the 89 was dropped, as I knew it would be which is why I intentionally bombed it, but man.  Only a 3 point difference?  I'm not sure what's scarier,
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> the fact that I intentionally bombed with an 89, or the fact that I actually worked for a 92.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> (Texas Government, otherwise a blow-off class)
13:20 <guru3> what the heck is the point of that class anyway?
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> requirements of the Texas Legislature
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> 6 credits of US GOvernment, of which 3 may be Texas Government
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> that goes along with 6 credits of History, 3 of math, and some others, to get a 4-year degree in Texas
13:21 <guru3> that's... odd
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> so the requirements exist for any college/university in the state
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> why odd?  Makes sense to me.
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> irritating, but sensible
13:22 <guru3> oh i dunno
13:22 <guru3> sounds boring
13:22 <Luke-Jr> do you get to learn how to overthrow the US gov't?
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> it is.  But for a democracy/republic to work, citizens have to be educated on how it works
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: those classes are reserved for government majors
13:22 <Luke-Jr> last I checked, college isn't required
13:22 <Lucifer_arma> no it's not.  :)
13:23 <Luke-Jr> and in fact, those who do go to college are generally brainwashed to do what the gov't wants anyway
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> but if you have to know more history and math to get a degree than you did to get a diploma, why not require extending government knowledge as well?
13:23 <Luke-Jr> shouldn't need those either
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, the history legislation was passed because UT alumni is a powerful interest group in Texas.  :)  It's basically welfare for history teachers.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> I disagree.  A college education implies greater ability in certain areas that studying history and math provide.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the reason I know the history legislation was passed was because I took the Texas Government class and learned it there.  :)
13:25 <Luke-Jr> what does anything beyond 50 years of history help with computer science?
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> depends on how narrow your focus is.  I'm working in the CRM field, specifically CRM/CMS, and having an understanding of different cultures is an advantage
13:25 <Lucifer_arma> also, having an understanding of why certain business operate like they do is also an advantage
13:26 <Luke-Jr> see, I wouldn't consider geography/cultures to be history
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> so, having an understanding in US History gives me a good baseline and reduces the amount I have to learn fresh
13:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't really study a culture without its history.
13:27 <Lucifer_arma> you can learn all about a Compaq Presario R3000, but if you know history of computers 1980+, you know a lot more about my laptop than you'd have if you only studied it by itself
13:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh, besides that, I'm after aerospace engineering anyway, and a good knowledge of at least the last 300 years of history will be very helpful
13:30 <Lucifer_arma> without it, I might be inclined to sell my abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of who they are.  Which could result in me developing rockets that cause a lot of people to die...
13:49 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:49 <wrtl_web_broken> Luke: winlibs is specific to windows, but can be used with both codeblocks and visualc
13:50 <wrtl_web_broken> at least that's my view of it, never having compiled on windows myself
14:02 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
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14:15 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4987116.stm
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> In the UK, leading Catholics also demanded a "health warning" after a survey of 1,000 people suggested that reading the original book could undermine a belief in Christian traditions.
14:46 <GodTodd> if anything undermines your belief system, was it truly your belief system in the first place?
15:10 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:10 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you know, I was thinking that most of the really freaking devout people I've known of any faith would never find their faith shattered by a movie
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> and why should they?  It's just a freaking movie!
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> you're talking about faith supported by real life experiences, whatever you or I may think of it, it's still supported by real life experiences, frequently traumatic in the really devout folks I'e known
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> Come on, the man that did 9 years in prison for attempted murder because they couldn't prove he actually killed the guy, just that he tried, while junked up on heroin,
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> then found Jesus in jail and turned his life around is *not* going to have his faith changed by this movied
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> *movie
15:16 <Lucifer_arma> and then Christianity has built-in guards for this sort of thing anyway, including some pretty harsh penalties for those who try to shake a Christian's faith
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> add it all up, and I think the position churches tend to take over blasphemous movies only weakens them
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> and these protests don't make them look a whole lot different than the "protestors" over the muhammed cartoons, except they haven't killed anybody--yet
15:18 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
15:19  * Lucifer_arma politely greets n54
15:20  * n54 is shocked but manages to say:
15:20 <n54> hi
15:20 <n54> what's with the politeness? *extremely curious*
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> passively-aggressively poking fun at z-man-home :)
15:21 -!- spider_ [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
15:21 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:21  * Lucifer_arma is a big believer in good manners, it may surprise you to learn.
15:22 <n54> I'm not sure I'm surprised about that really
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  I just realized I've committed myself to spend the next 2 hours on the phone with parts guys
15:23 <n54> auto parts?
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, gruff exteriors notwithstanding, mutual respect shown outwardly goes a long way to mediate any disagreements
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, auto parts
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> I just pulled the wheels off my celica to see what I needed for brakes
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> the brakes aren't bad, really.  Rotors probably won't turn again, but the hydraulics are all in good shape, pads and shoes worn evenly
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> if the rotors weren't chewed up a bit, I'd be tempted to just pad slap her and get it on
15:24 <n54> yeah I agree on that but I do understand that it can wear thin and then it's better to be honet imo
15:24 <n54> honest*
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> but alas, the tread is starting to separate from one of the tires.
15:24  * Lucifer_arma invites n54 to politely fuck off
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> see what I mean?  :)
15:24 <n54> hehe
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not saying manners are a substitute for honest relations...
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> so I need two new tires added to the parts list
15:25 <n54> yeah I know
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> I already intended to price a starter and power steering pump, two components known to be going bad but not bad yet
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> and I'd pretty much decided on a new battery, although I'd feel a lot better about replacing the battery if the starter were replaced as well
15:25 <n54> however I think you go a bit hard at Luke sometimes
15:26 <n54> not that I should say anything really
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> "mutual respect shown"
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> that was a requirement, remember?
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> I won't disagree with you, but I likely won't regret it either.  Whenever I've encountered skulls as thick as his, I've found that there's very little you can do about it
15:27 <n54> I'm not saying it doesn't take two to "fight" - it always does :)
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> if you've got a better way, I'd like to see it.  However my own experience indicates that extreme hostility will either cause him to rethink his attitudes and possibly correct his behavior,
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> or chase him out.
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> and even if I get chased out as a result of the whole thing, project's better off no matter what.
15:28 <n54> sometimes time does help but as I said I really shouldn't say anything about it
15:28  * Lucifer_arma rips into n54 :)
15:28 <n54> :)
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> I've faced down some pretty tough people and seen some amazing results.  :)
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, I've seen plenty of people walk away and even gotten myself in hot water on occasion
15:29 <n54> I'm not in the cat-herding business so... :D
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> you wouldn't happen to know how I can reference cells absolutely in OO.o, would you?
15:30 <n54> in openoffice? absolutely no idea, but they like to me office-like so perhaps $A$1 ?
15:30 <n54> be*
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  How do you do it in excel, then?  :)
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> that's how it's done in KDE, I'll try it
15:31 <n54> it's been years since I had anything to do with that sort of stuff though so...
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> er, KSpread
15:31 <n54> ah ok
15:31 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm going to call no less than 3 parts houses, and, well, spreadsheet, obviously
15:31 <n54> $A$1 in excel too iirc
15:31 <n54> aha, smart
15:32  * n54 used to certify/teach people in that kind of stuff but I'e forgotten it all
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> wound up setting it up without that need
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> realized I needed core charges in there too
15:39 <n54> ?
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> um, when you buy a remanufactured part, they want your old part, whatever it is
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> then they take your old part and stick it in a factory where they take it apart, measure all components of it and throw out whatever's bad
15:41 <GodTodd> they want that even if you buy a battery new tho
15:41 <n54> oh
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> whatever's good they put in a pile (essentially).  Then they order new parts to replace all the broken parts and put that all on the assembly line
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> hence the work Remanufactured
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> batteries are different.  Those are recycling costs, because you can't just toss your battery in the garbage
15:42 <Lucifer_arma> *word
15:42 <GodTodd> right
15:43 <n54> any of you been to those airplane graveyards? (guess it might only be in south california?)
15:43 <GodTodd> been a while since i bought a computer monitor...do they do the core charge thing too?  since you can't just throw them away either legally?
15:43 <Lucifer_arma> not that I know of, GodTodd.  I've never bought a computer monitor, though.  :)
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> n54: no, I haven't been to one of those
15:44 <n54> no I don't think so, they try to recucle materials only afaik
15:44 <GodTodd> i have...one....many years ago
15:44 <n54> recycle*
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> I've checked out some boat salvage yards, though
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, salvage yards are similar.  You just get used parts from them, known good parts, but used nonetheless
15:44 <Lucifer_arma> whatever's left they crush and recycle
15:44  * Lucifer_arma used to work on a salvage yard
15:44 <GodTodd> like auto UPull It places...
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> and if my employer hadn't been such a jerk, it would have been the best time I'd ever had
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> nah, UPull is attractive, but you get a higher percentage of parts that don't work
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> good for body parts, but then I don't want to go out to a yard and pull fenders and doors and crap
15:45 <GodTodd> very true....all i ever pulled from them was door handles for my old 85 Omni heh
15:45 <Lucifer_arma> I think it's well worth the extra price to pay professionals to do all that for me.  :)
15:46 <GodTodd> for 80% off...i did them myself and was happy :D
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, door handles, pfft.  2 minutes
15:46 <Lucifer_arma> for both :)
15:46 <GodTodd> exactly
15:46 <GodTodd> nah...4 :P
15:46 <GodTodd> lol
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> I got to where I could take a fully assembled door and get the glass, window regulator, and handle out of it in like 30 seconds
15:47 <GodTodd> wasn't paying 20$ for one handle for a bucket o' bolts
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> 45 seconds if the door was stuck shut (like against a wall or something)
15:50 <GodTodd> i need to find a junk car that i can just tear apart....learn how it all works and goes back together....to learn the basics....haven't found the time yet
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> don't tell me Van's is out of business!?!?
15:51 <GodTodd> ok...i won't
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh no, wait a minute, I limited my search to Round Rock, that's right
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> Van's doesn't have a location up here
15:52 <Lucifer_arma> yay, so Advanced, van's, and ummm, the 'zone
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot, most of these guys have their catalogs online.  I don't have to call anybody :)
16:09 <wrtlprnft> grr wrtl_web_broken is still there...
16:10 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
16:10 <wrtlprnft> :)
16:10 <n54> :)
16:11 <wrtlprnft> I just don't like the fact that i need to restart my webserver for that...
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> #g 18.99+12.88+14.99+22.99
16:11 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 18.99 + 12.88 + 14.99 + 22.99 = 69.85
16:12 <n54> oh... yeah there must be a better way
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> so, for the equivalent of a Just Brakes 4-wheel friction reline for 99.88 (in most cases) + front hardware and front rotors, I'm looking at 69.85
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, take it to just brakes or do it myself....
16:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmmmmmm...................
16:13 <Lucifer_arma> (that joke's probably only funny if you're in an area that got saturated with Just Brakes commercials ~5 years ago)
16:13 <n54> *woosh* here
16:14 <Lucifer_arma> Our system is having trouble finding  Brakes . We're sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
16:15 <n54> heh
16:16 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["hey how you doin"]
16:17 <wrtlprnft> :D
16:17 <wrtlprnft> I'm getting better at killing spam on the wiki :)
16:18 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is that it's still there for about 4 hours... that's plenty of time for a search engine to index it
16:18 <wrtlprnft> which is exactly what those bastards want :(
16:18 <n54> hmm, I wonder how wikipedia deals with it
16:20 <wrtlprnft> well
16:20 <wrtlprnft> they have waaaay more users
16:20 <wrtlprnft> obvious spam like that survives about 30 seconds
16:20 <wrtlprnft> since there's always someone somewhere in the world checking the recent changes
16:22 <Lucifer_arma> is it possible to make a column in OO.o that doesn't scroll with the bottom scrollbar?
16:22 <n54> ah ok so it's just an issue of human reaction.... perhaps one could automate quarantine of users who post links in their first post ever? (would include quarantining all following posts as well until the quarantine is lifted)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I'm in favor of exercising the nuclear option with spammers
16:23 <wrtlprnft> I dunno
16:24 <n54> in a spreadsheat Lucifer? hmm there should be...
16:24 <wrtlprnft> i think it would be enough to hack the user registration page a bit
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> captcha will probably help whenever I get it on there
16:24 <wrtlprnft> just change the name of the username field, then automated spambots for mediawiki have no chance
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> that's kinda assuming they use the name of the username field
16:25 <wrtlprnft> capchas always have that nasti accessibility issue
16:25 <wrtlprnft> well
16:25 <n54> if you want to change that name just make it an alias rather than have to change the name everywhere (in tables etc.)
16:25 <wrtlprnft> they somehow have to register the spam user
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> username and password fields are usually linked somehow, so you can just look for password type and te the textbox before it for username
16:25 <n54> alias can be used for the pw too
16:25 <wrtlprnft> well then
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> I thought about the accessibility issue with captchas, and I don't think it'll be a problem for us.
16:25 <wrtlprnft> put another inputbox between them and hide it with CSS
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> if you have a hard time seeing the captcha, chances are pretty good you'd have a hard time playing the game in the first place :)
16:26 <wrtlprnft> true
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> and if that's not true, then I'll be happy to help anyone having problems dealing with the capcha
16:26 <wrtlprnft> maybe put a big notice somewhere
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> n54: it's the <input type="password" part that we can't get around
16:27 <wrtlprnft> then, on the other hand bots get smart and learn to read capchas
16:27 <n54> hmm yeah didn't think of that... still if one has multiple ones (some of which are hidden and discarded that might throw off the bots
16:27 <n54> perhaps that was what wrtlprnft already said?
16:27 <wrtlprnft> yes, indeed
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> no, they'd probably just fill them all with something that's the same, heh
16:28 <wrtlprnft> then...
16:28 <n54> ok but that should be easy to check for right?
16:28  * n54 thinks that would work
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> we're assuming the bots are reading the form in the first place, of course.  If they're not, then we can just rename the fields and we're fine, for awhile anyway
16:28 <wrtlprnft> make a field and put a text beside it, "please type the word 'armagetron' into this field"?
16:28 <n54> like checking that only password number 4 was filled in
16:29 <n54> they are probably reading the form
16:29 <wrtlprnft> like, captcha that everyone can deal with
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> n54: the solution from the bot-writers is to fill them all in with exactly the same data
16:29 <n54> yeah Lucifer but the point is that humans wouldn't
16:29 <n54> they'd only use one of them
16:29 <n54> (the displayed one)
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I get you
16:30 <n54> this was wrtlprnft idea though :)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I like that one
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> where's the patch?
16:30 <wrtlprnft> i think even the simplest way would be sufficient as long there's enough stupid people with an unhacked wiki
16:30 <wrtlprnft> well
16:30 <n54> in wrtlprnft's fingers? :)
16:30 <wrtlprnft> i won't write a patch for an outdated version of mediawiki... maybe upgrade? :D
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I see how it is
16:31 <n54> just hack the front page imo ;) *quick & dirty makes the day* ;P
16:31  * Lucifer_arma has a car to fix
16:31 <wrtlprnft> well... can you send me the wiki dir as a tar?
16:31 <wrtlprnft> i doubt i can get the exact version you have
16:32 <n54> probably good idea so as to avoid unnecessary work
16:32 <n54> the tar that is
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's not bad, $28 for a tire
16:33 <n54> new?
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> of course new
16:34 <n54> good ;)
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> I already have used tires.  :)
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> so, my wishlist is 368.25
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g 368.25 * 1.0865
16:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 368.25 * 1.0865 = 400.103625
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> ~400 with tax
16:37 <wrtlprnft> nice round taxes you have
16:37 <wrtlprnft> 8.65% O_o
16:37 <n54> hehe
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> #g 368.25 * 1.08
16:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 368.25 * 1.08 = 397.71
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> see the difference?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3.41 * 1000000
16:38 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3.41 * 1,000,000 = 3,410,000
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> That's an extra 3.4 million dollars for the city of Austin
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> $47 for the other car :(
16:40 <GodTodd> capitalism at its finest....you make more getting a little from many than a lot from a few :D
16:40 <n54> :)
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> 465.25 including 2 tires for the camry
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> #g 465.25 * 1.0865
16:41 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 465.25 * 1.0865 = 505.494125
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> damn, an extra hundred bucks
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's gonna bitch about the power steering pump, starter, and battery for tht price
16:42 <wrtlprnft> well... actually 1.65 would be rounded up, eh?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> so be happy :D
16:42 <n54> my thought too wrtlprnft :D
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> a dollar and 65 cents?  Rounded up?
16:42 <n54> $2
16:42 <wrtlprnft> 1.56% i mean
16:42 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
16:42 <Self_Destructo> hi everyone
16:42 <wrtlprnft> 1.65% i mean
16:42 <wrtlprnft> morning
16:42 <n54> hi SD :)
16:42 <Self_Destructo> lol
16:43 <Self_Destructo> not morning
16:43 <wrtlprnft> whatever
16:43 <wrtlprnft> morning in australia i think
16:43 <Self_Destructo> i guess so
16:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, australia and russia
16:43  * wrtlprnft likes kWorldClock
16:43 <n54> nah not russia/asia
16:44 <wrtlprnft> yeah, china/japan and friends
16:44 <n54> sure?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:44  * n54 would have figured more like mid-day
16:44 <n54> not important :)
16:45 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.azj
16:45 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/world.png
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> #g 900+1350
16:47 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 900 + 1,350 = 2,250
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  Not the greatest month's pay, but I guess that's what's coming.  :(
16:48 <n54> ok wrtlprnft :)
16:50 -!- Nixda885 [n=593703bb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:50 <Nixda885> hi
16:50 <n54> hi
16:50 -!- Nixda885 [n=593703bb@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:50 <n54> drive-by hello :|
16:51 <GodTodd> and you were hit :D
16:52 <n54> hehe :)
16:56 -!- Nixda574 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
16:56 <Nixda574> hi
16:56 -!- Nixda574 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:57 <wrtlprnft> no wonder why that guy left
16:57 <GodTodd> they missed us all that time :D
16:57 <wrtlprnft> the second one was me, and it disconnected all by itself
16:57 <GodTodd> hmmm\
16:58 <n54> you use the same isp?
16:58 <wrtlprnft> no
16:58 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetron.nixda.net/
16:59 <wrtlprnft> click on chat
16:59 <n54> ok that explains it
16:59  * n54 didn't click on chat
17:00 -!- Nixda000 [n=a228aced@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:00 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:00 <n54> the webchat doesn't work nix
17:00 <Nixda000> heh
17:00 <Nixda000> yes it does
17:00 <Nixda000> this is SD
17:00 -!- Nixda314 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:00 <Nixda314> tryin again...
17:00 -!- Nixda394 [n=47c7cc90@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
17:01 <n54> ...
17:01 <Nixda314> lots of usery
17:01 <Nixda314> s
17:01 <Nixda000> lol
17:01 <Nixda314> hmm, now it doesn't disconnect me
17:01  * Nixda314 thinks we should all get nicks like that
17:01 <Nixda000> lol
17:01 <wrtlprnft> Nixda314: test
17:01 -!- Nixda000 [n=a228aced@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has left #armagetron []
17:01 -!- Nixda314 [n=184df2ab@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:01 -!- Nixda394 [n=47c7cc90@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> y'all know that was joda, right?
17:05 <wrtlprnft> i know it's joda's site
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, now that I think about it, it might have been someone else, heh
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> he's probably been telling people about it
17:05 <wrtlprnft> well
17:05 <wrtlprnft> that site has a few visitors and is linked from aa.net
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> #g 289.78 * 1.065
17:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 289.78 * 1.06500 = 308.6157
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> that's not bad.  Knocks almost 200 off the price
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> and my wife's not bitching about me wanting to replace parts that aren't technically broken yet
17:06 <wrtlprnft> so anyone might go to that site, switch to chat, log in, decide not to say anything useful, and leave again
17:06 <wrtlprnft> or it was psyko and as he saw Lucifer_arma and wrtlprnft he left
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> probably helps that I volunteered to charge the battery and see how bad the starter was
17:07 <wrtlprnft> *and he left
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I can't imagine psyko chickening out here.  Seems like he'd stay and troll
17:07 <wrtlprnft> true
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you try the game yet?
17:07 <Self_Destructo> lol, yeah
17:07 <wrtlprnft> someone should gently direct 2020 to that site if he wants to talk about the ladle
17:08 <GodTodd> armagetron?
17:08 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad!
17:08 <GodTodd> :P
17:08 <wrtlprnft> important difference
17:08 <GodTodd> i play it every now and again
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> #g 195.78 * 1.0865
17:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 195.78 * 1.0865 = 212.71497
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> that's without tires for the camry
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> 412.71 with the state documentation needed to be legal
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you use this nickname or another one?  Heh.  Play network game?
17:11 <GodTodd> i use this one...just checked...must have been a while cuz i don't have the game installed on this laptop heh
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> damn slow-ass charger.  It's a 1 amp charger.  It'll take forever!  I want to know *now* if the starter's any good!
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> 2 amp is like the industry standard trickle charge.  1 amp is just stupid.  Why the hell did I buy a 1 amp charger?!?
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, I was going to tar up the wiki real quick
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> wiki.armagetronad.net/wiki.tar.gz
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/wiki.tar.gz
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> I excluded images and LocalSettings.php.  You can probably grab those from any release
17:18 <n54> *nudges wrtlprnft just in case he's not here right now*
17:30 <wrtlprnft> ok, back from suppe
17:30 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:30 <wrtlprnft> Not Found
17:30 <wrtlprnft> The requested URL /wiki.tar.gz was not found on this server.
17:31 <wrtlprnft> Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.50 (Mandrakelinux/7mdk) mod_perl/1.99_16 Perl/v5.8.5 Server at wiki.armagetronad.net Port 80
17:31 <wrtlprnft> AdvancedExtranetServer O_o
17:31 <wrtlprnft> whatever that means
17:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ping ;)
17:33 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> try again, sorry
17:33 <wrtlprnft> thanks
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> it was one up from the wiki webroot
17:33 <wrtlprnft> np
17:34 <wrtlprnft> lol can't reach that i hope
17:34 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/../wiki.tar.gz
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no idea if that's the exact same file or the one that's one up
17:35 <wrtlprnft> but i guess it's the same
17:37 <wrtlprnft> can't test, since it seems like you removed that first- setup script (which is a good idea)
17:41 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:41 <ghableska> hi
17:41 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
17:42 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:42 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft
17:42 <wrtlprnft> (i mean ghableska)
17:42 <ghableska> ;)
17:45 <n54> hi :)
17:45 <ghableska> hi n54
17:55 <wrtlprnft> suure, just when i need mysql on my test server it doesn't work
17:55 <ghableska> :P
17:58 <wrtlprnft> now i have to find out why it doesn't start...the init script thinks it started, but actually it dies right away without so much as an error message or log entry
17:58  * wrtlprnft recompiles mysqld...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, yeah, I removed that setup script :)
18:06 <wrtlprnft> no, it's still there actually
18:06 <wrtlprnft> just refused to run since there was already a config file
18:07 <wrtlprnft> but now i just noticed that I have no mysql so i have to get that fixed first
18:10 <wrtlprnft> wow. 75 stupids on my server already
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: i never hit the button
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: why am i player 1
18:11 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: how do u make us say that
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: this place suks
18:12 <ghableska> lol
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [2] Player 1: wtf u mother funken admin
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: wat a gay server
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: hmm?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> [1] Player 1: hey
18:12 <wrtlprnft> hehe
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i need a script that maps the "Player 1" in those chatlogs to the actual name the user had when he entered ;)
18:13 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508700CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:14 <wrtlprnft> unfortunately lots of the more well- known people are ignoring it or just disguised
18:15 <wrtlprnft> spidey was there, Vortex, some ct guy, loops, dook, and pyroto
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I thought I'd removed it.  ok
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, why isn't the phptal template engine working?  :(
18:18 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> what a freaking pain in the ass
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> there's a phptal engine for Drupal, and it doesn't work
18:19 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia phptal
18:19 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.14 seconds: Wikipedia:MediaWiki 1.4 release notes - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MediaWiki_1.4_release_notes>; User:Gwicke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gwicke>
18:19 <wrtlprnft> helpful
18:21 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
18:21 <Self_Destructo> is the xmlparser built into the game custom made or something?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> it's based on libxml2
18:22 <Self_Destructo> k
18:22 <wrtlprnft> but that class handles getting and processing the XML and provides an objectorientated interface
18:22 <Self_Destructo> why do we have t, r, c, ect. in front of filenames?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> that's the dir
18:22 <wrtlprnft> things in src/tools start with t
18:23 <wrtlprnft> in src/render it's r
18:23 <wrtlprnft> and in src/tron it's g since t is already taken
18:23 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:23 <wrtlprnft> also, global variables are prefixed with s<prefix>_name
18:23 <Self_Destructo> hm
18:23 <Self_Destructo> k
18:23 <wrtlprnft> so in src/tools it would be st_Breakpoint()
18:24 <wrtlprnft> basically to avoid name confusion and to make it easier to locate the definition
18:24 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:24 <wrtlprnft> looks like my mysql DB is screwed up :(
18:25 <Self_Destructo> i'm still studying C++ right now, will be for no telling how long
18:25 <wrtlprnft> well, you won't find those prefixes in the annotations
18:25 <Self_Destructo> I'm just fixing to find out what classes are in the next chapter
18:25 <wrtlprnft> basically structs with functions in them
18:25 <Self_Destructo> k
18:26 <Self_Destructo> well, i know what structs are. :p
18:26 <wrtlprnft> that's plain c stuff
18:26 <wrtlprnft> a class is a struct in which you can define functions
18:27 <wrtlprnft> and those functions have access to the object they were called with
18:29 <Self_Destructo> k
18:30 <Self_Destructo> well, I'll learn that soon enough
18:30 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:32 <Lucifer_arma> I think I just DOSd my server
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> I give up.  No phptal for me.  :(
18:49 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, successfully hacked the wiki
18:50 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Userlogin.php.txt
18:50 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/templates/Userlogin.php
18:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/SpecialUserlogin.php.txt
18:51 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/SpecialUserlogin.php
18:51 <wrtlprnft> and that's it :)
18:55 <wrtlprnft> i added two fields, one before and one after the "real" field, and a message that only shows up if CSS is not applied that tells you which one to fill out
18:56 <wrtlprnft> and they're named wpName, wpWrtlName and wpVoidName, in order
19:19 <Lucifer_arma> you got rid of the original fields, right?
19:25 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
19:26 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i didn't touch the password fields
19:26 <wrtlprnft> and the original username field is still there, but it's one of those you aren't supposed to change
19:26 <wrtlprnft> so it checks that field's content, and if it's not empty it throws an error
19:27 <wrtlprnft> and the other added field, wp_VoidName, has a default value and if that's changed it fails, too
19:28 <wrtlprnft> and wp_WrtlName is the "real" username field
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> aha, ok.  I was just thinking that if you left the original fields and used them, it wouldn't work :)
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> how easy would it be to automatically ban IP addresses that fill in the fields they're not supposed to fill in?
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> also, how easy would it be to randomly generate the field names?  Then you could send the patch back to the mediawiki folks :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> I don't think we want that
19:30 <n54> the banning shouldn't be neccessary as the bots will not be allowed further at all
19:31 <wrtlprnft> i don't want to send a patch anywhere, people should make a different hack for each wiki
19:31 <n54> however it could be nice for some sort of blacklist etc.
19:31 <wrtlprnft> if everyone uses it, the bots will get smarter
19:31 <n54> I kinda agree
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, I don't want to automatically ban people who fill in the wrong fields
19:32 <wrtlprnft> one reason is that current users of the wiki might use password managers, and those will fill in the wrong fields
19:32 <n54> hah I didn't think of that.. perhaps a problem?
19:32 <wrtlprnft> no, it's not
19:33 <Self_Destructo> does anyone here remeber deja_vu's website?
19:33 <wrtlprnft> the error it throws says that this can be a reason and advises people to fill in their name and password manually one time for their password manager to adapt
19:33 <n54> ah ok
19:34 <wrtlprnft> deja_vu: std::cerr << deja_vu->website << std::endl;
19:34 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:34 <Self_Destructo> ...
19:34 <wrtlprnft> > Login/registration failed. Please do not edit the two additional fields. If you use a password manager, please fill out the form manually one time to make it learn the new fields. Thanks.
19:34 <wrtlprnft> that's what it says if you do fill them out
19:46  * Lucifer_arma notes that security by obscurity has secured millions of Windows computers the world over
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: been meaning to ask you, where'd you get your website hosted?
19:47 <wrtlprnft> well, the idea is that our small wiki is not worth writing an extra spambot for
19:48 <wrtlprnft> so we'll be safe
19:48  * n54 points out that in this case it's not security by obscurity, it's security by uniqueness... well actually it has nothing to do with security at all, it's just a slightly uncommon filter
19:48 <wrtlprnft> it's a simple countermeasure, and I think it will work just fine
19:48 <n54> yup
19:51 <GodTodd> Luci: i went with GoDaddy
19:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr won't be happy
19:51 <n54> :D
19:51 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: Luke-Jr Luke-Jr 
19:51 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, no, Luke-Jr won't like that
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> don't they support porn or something like that?
19:54 <GodTodd> lol
19:54 <Lucifer_arma> did you just register your domain through them, or are did you also get it physically hosted there?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> they grab domains and try to sell them
19:54 <GodTodd> they're hosting it too
19:54 <wrtlprnft> if you use their domain search chances are they'll grab the domain you were looking for
19:55 <wrtlprnft> so if you later decide you want that domain you can only get it from them
19:55 <n54> which registrars do you people like & use?
19:55 <wrtlprnft> &?
19:56 <n54> you didn't see that character? the and-sign?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> wrtlprnft.de is hosted by some provider in germany (didn't use their domain search, but http://denic.de/ ) and wrtlprnft.ath.cx is free anyways
19:56 <Lucifer_arma> I use no-ip :)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> yes there was an & sign
19:57 <wrtlprnft> but what does it mean in this contect? &
19:57 <Lucifer_arma> I was wondering because if you wanted, I could host it for you.  It's just on my cable connection, but your site's likely to be pretty low traffic for awhile
19:57 <wrtlprnft> *context
19:57 <n54> and
19:57 <n54> & i.e. ampersand always means and in normal use afaik
19:57 <wrtlprnft> > which registrars do you people like AND use
19:57 <wrtlprnft> there's a word missing in that sentence, it seems
19:58 <GodTodd> yeah...my site is going to be really low traffic til i get it to a point where it offers stuff that the general public might want
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I can't give the kind of uptime a lot of host providers give, but I make it up with features.  :)  You have to pay real money to get stuff I just have laying around
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I said I use no-ip
19:58 <n54> yeah heard you Lucifer :) thanks
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> I USE NO-IP.ORG FOR MY DOMAIN
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> guru3 USES NO-IP.ORG FOR ARMAGETRONAD.NET
19:58 <wrtlprnft> I USE DYNDNS.ORG FOR MY DOMAIN
19:58 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, Luke-Jr uses it too
19:59 <n54> THANKS YOU ARE GREAT! :D
19:59 <Lucifer_arma> z-man uses dyndns.org for armagetron.kicks-ass.net
19:59 <wrtlprnft> and I will use it for wrtlprnft.de as soon as my contract for wrtlprnft.de expires
19:59 <Lucifer_arma> do a whois lookup on generalconsumption.org to find out who nemo uses
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr uses go-daddy for everything.  Email, domain registration, pizza delivery, *everything*
20:00 <n54> hehe
20:00 <GodTodd> lol
20:00 <GodTodd> i got a year domain reg for like 6$....so it wasn't bad
20:00  * wrtlprnft waits for the microsoft domain registration service
20:04 <GodTodd> i'd HAVE to get microsoftsucksass.com if they registered my domain :D
20:05 <wrtlprnft> that one doesn't even exist yet
20:17 <Lucifer_arma> $36/year for my domain registration
20:17 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciferEatsPeopl
20:18 -!- LuciferEatsPeopl is now known as LuciEatsPeopl
20:20 <n54> #g 36 USD to NOK
20:20 <armabot> n54: 36 U.S. dollars = 217.516087 Norwegian kroner
20:21 <n54> i.e. about 3.5 packets of cigarettes :)
20:23 <LuciEatsPeopl> heh
20:23 <LuciEatsPeopl> I make enough in google ads to cover that, though
20:24 <LuciEatsPeopl> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4986688.stm
20:27 <n54> really? google pays that well? I mean no offense but your site is a small one and all that
20:28 <LuciEatsPeopl> hmmm, I have some regular, devoted readers
20:29 <n54> ok, so it's not paid out by click only by impressions?
20:29 <LuciEatsPeopl> click only
20:29 <LuciEatsPeopl> I get a check about every 1.5 years, for just over $100
20:30 -!- LuciEatsPeopl is now known as LuciEatsPeople
20:30 <n54> huh not bad
20:31 <LuciEatsPeople> hmmm, captcha doesn't work, apparently
20:33 <n54> wiki? drupal?
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> drupal
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> what a shitty captcha image
20:36 <LuciEatsPeople> look at it.  Go on anonymous and try to post a comment somewhere
20:37 <n54> ok hold on
20:39 <LuciEatsPeople> maybe it's better if I give it a truetype font
20:41 <n54> ah there I see it
20:41 <n54> hmm yeah try that
20:42 <n54> something vector-based at least
20:42 <LuciEatsPeople> http://armatest.davefancella.com/node/12#comment  <--- fed it the Armagetron font :)
20:43 <LuciEatsPeople> I can make a better captcha than that
20:44 <n54> hmm yeah that shouldn't stop any reasonable ocr-bot
20:45 <n54> nice that the footer is sockless :D
20:47 <LuciEatsPeople> :)
20:47 <LuciEatsPeople> just wanted something in it
20:48 <LuciEatsPeople> well, instead of fooling with the captcha, I think I'm going to tear down my server in a minute
20:48 <LuciEatsPeople> lemme see if my wife's busy with it
20:50 <n54> youe wife is computer-literate? like seriously good?
20:51 <LuciEatsPeople> she's computer-literate in the sense that she can read what's on a monitor
20:51 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
20:51 <n54> oh ok :D
20:51 <GodTodd> heh....my wife programs web pages ;)
20:52 <n54> cool :)
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> for Halliburton - n54's favorite company
20:52 <n54> lol
20:53 <GodTodd> yep...for big evil halliburton :)
20:54 <n54> actually my favourite company is SAS (not the scandinavian airline but the american computer/programming company)
20:55 <n54> purely for their management policies/ideas
20:57 <GodTodd> oh yeah....saw a thing on some news show a few years ago about them
20:58 <n54> yeah they occasionally pop up in business/management-related news etc. I've seen a few stories on them over the years
20:59 <GodTodd> yeah...they're still considered one of the best employers there is
21:00 <n54> yup
21:01 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: what files contain the code for maps?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> gParser.cpp/gParser.h
21:03 <Self_Destructo> ok, ty
21:08 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["I quit."]
21:10 <n54> here's their site btw; http://sas.com/
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> SAS, the guys that used to make the C compiler for the Amiga?  The old lattice compiler?
21:11 <n54> hmm not sure if they're the same as I've never heard of that c compiler before
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they're the same.  I've checked 'em out before.  :)
21:12 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
21:12 <n54> hmm found info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_C
21:12 <GodTodd> yeah...they bought Lattice
21:12 <GodTodd> in 86
21:13 <GodTodd> same year the norwegian subsidiary opened
21:14 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: but I'd suggest you don't really use the syntax that's used there, all those myxml functions
21:15 <wrtlprnft> they're mostly replaced by tXmlParser::node (on which you can find examples in cCockpit.cpp, cWidgetBase.cpp, rRotation.cpp and tXmlParser.cpp)
21:15 <wrtlprnft> they
21:15 <wrtlprnft> 'll deal with all the xmlChar * stuff for you and provide an interface with tStrings
21:16 <n54> huh I see wikipedia says 87 while sas says 86
21:18 <n54> anyway they're an inspiration in "things done right" imho
21:22 <wrtlprnft> logrotate still didn't rotate my logs :(
21:22 <wrtlprnft> looks like it's really waiting a week
21:23 <n54> hmm
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> hey, what's the command to add services to gentoo's startup?
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, how do I manuall start X in gentoo?  :)
21:24 <n54> not the usual way?
21:24 <wrtlprnft> rc-update
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> usual way for lucifer = service xdm start :)
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> (mandriva specific)
21:24 <wrtlprnft> rc-update add xdm default
21:25 <wrtlprnft> that makes xdm start on bootup
21:25 <n54> startx
21:25 <n54> right?
21:25 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:25 <wrtlprnft> or /etc/init.d/xdm start
21:25 <wrtlprnft> and if you wanna use kdm change /etc/rc.conf
21:25 <n54> unless gentoo is very weird I guess
21:26 <wrtlprnft> startx works, so does xinit and just X
21:26 <wrtlprnft> but it has to be configured right, which it isn't by default
21:27 <wrtlprnft> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml#doc_chap3
21:27 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 <wrtlprnft> i see Lucifer_arma is restarting :D
21:27 <n54> oh noes armabot has died! :S
21:28 <wrtlprnft> or crashing, whatever
21:28 <wrtlprnft> and noone looked how long the logs were :(
21:28 <n54> hmm wonder if he saw any of our replies
21:28 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma's IRC client is not on the server i think
21:28 <n54> ok
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's on my laptop
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> er, I'm on my laptop
21:29 <n54> :)
21:29 <wrtlprnft> well
21:29 <wrtlprnft> if your irc client is on your laptop and you're chatting with in i assume you're on your laptop too
21:30 <wrtlprnft> *chatting with IT
21:30  * n54 ain't no "it"
21:30 <n54> ;P
21:30 <wrtlprnft> *chatting USING IT
21:30 <n54> pervert! :o
21:30 <wrtlprnft> O_o
21:30 <n54> lol
21:31 <n54> sorry --I'm just being silly :)
21:31  * wrtlprnft is getting used to it
21:31 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:31 <n54> :D
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> no /dev/mouse device
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
21:31 <wrtlprnft> err
21:32 <wrtlprnft> yes, that always happens to me
21:32 <wrtlprnft> sec
21:32 <wrtlprnft> 	Option	    "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
21:32 <wrtlprnft> use that line instead of whatever device is there
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 	Option	    "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
21:33 <wrtlprnft> use that option too if it isn't there or you won't be able to use your scroll wheel
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 	Option	    "ZAxisMapping" "5 4"
21:34 <wrtlprnft> and use that if you want to drive whoever is trying to use the scroll wheel crazy
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that would be my wife
21:34 <wrtlprnft> or use other buttons...
21:35 <Lucifer_arma> except I'm not entirely sure she's discovered the scroll wheel
21:35 <wrtlprnft> "1 3" would map the scroll wheel to the left and right mouse buttons
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> where's the part that says "do this to start x on boot"
21:37 <wrtlprnft> nowhere, it's assumed to be known
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> just adding xdm is supposed to work?  is that it?
21:38 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:38 <wrtlprnft> try /etc/init.d/xdm start first
21:38 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
21:38 <ghableska> hello
21:38 <wrtlprnft> if that works you can use rc-update to make it start by itself
21:38 <wrtlprnft> hi there
21:39 <n54> hi ghableska
21:40 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft, n54
21:41  * wrtlprnft is tempted to set his system clock a week forward to see if the log rotation works
21:41 <wrtlprnft> but better not, it would terribly mess things up i guess
21:42 <wrtlprnft> hmm, or i could make it run super-fast :D
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> it's very nice, this kde thing
21:46 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:47 <n54> lol wrtlprnft :)
21:47 <n54> Lucifer_arma: which hde thing?
21:47 <n54> kde*
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> This thing called KDE
21:48  * n54 notices ghab parts rather than quits
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> #translate "this KDE thing" no
21:48 <n54> oh ok :P :)
21:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: bad luck your bot is down :P
21:48 <wrtlprnft> emerge supybot
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> haha
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> ummm.......
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I forgot to emerge sshd
21:48 <wrtlprnft> err
21:48  * Lucifer_arma smacks his forehead
21:48 <wrtlprnft> it's there automatically
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> that's, um, one thing I really need
21:48 <wrtlprnft> /etc/init.d/sshd start
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> just doesn't start automatically?
21:49 <wrtlprnft> rc-update add sshd default
21:49 <wrtlprnft> no, why should it?
21:49 <wrtlprnft> it would just be a possible security hole if you don't use it
21:51 <wrtlprnft> the nice thing about gentoo is that dealing with runlevels is really easy
21:51 <wrtlprnft> i remember from knoppix times dealing with /etc/rc5.d/S20apache blah-blubb...
21:51 <wrtlprnft> brr
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you're right, it's there
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> now I've plugged in a network cable, and we'll see how it goes
21:53 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:53 <SD|away> cya all
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> by SD|away 
21:53 <wrtlprnft> cya
21:53 <wrtlprnft> maybe you wanna do a /etc/init.d/net.eth0 start as well then
21:53 <wrtlprnft> if you just plugged in the cable
21:54 <wrtlprnft> or restart
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
21:54 <wrtlprnft> well
21:54 <wrtlprnft> ignore that, it indeed changed
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:54 <wrtlprnft> you could copy your old key over
21:54 <wrtlprnft> s/key/certificate
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> this is a beautiful bash prompt
21:55 <wrtlprnft> :)
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> it's all colorful and stuff
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
21:55 <wrtlprnft> my zsh prompt is more beautiful methinks
21:55 <wrtlprnft> but colored prompts are really useful
21:55 <wrtlprnft> way easier to see where the output of the command you just typed started if you scroll up
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/
21:56 <wrtlprnft> well
21:57 <wrtlprnft> rm /var/www/armatest/htdocs/index.htm
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> nonononono, my webroot will be somewhere else
21:57 <wrtlprnft> symlink?
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what version of Drupal gentoo has?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> or just change the apache confix
21:57 <wrtlprnft> emerge -pv drupal
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> how do I find out the version of a package available?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> -p == --pretend, -v == --verbose (shows available use flags)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, no 4.7
21:58 <wrtlprnft> sure there is a 4.7
21:58 <wrtlprnft> it's just considered unstable
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> ok, how do I get to it, then?
21:59 <wrtlprnft> echo "www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
21:59 <wrtlprnft> you might have to create /etc/portage first
21:59 <wrtlprnft> echo "=www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's there
21:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, scratch that
22:00 <wrtlprnft> echo "~www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86" >/etc/portage/package.keywords
22:00 <wrtlprnft> that's best
22:00 <wrtlprnft> = only matches that specific version, ~ matches that version and minor ebuild updates
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, nothing found
22:00 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:01 <wrtlprnft> what architecture is that server?
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> x86
22:01 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:01 <wrtlprnft> what does it say?
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> do you see one?  Probably I'm doing something wrong...
22:02 <wrtlprnft> see one what?
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> drupal 4.7
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "drupal" have been masked.
22:02 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.5.2 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.3 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.2 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.6.5 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> - www-apps/drupal-4.5.7 (masked by: ~x86 keyword)
22:02 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/56488
22:02 <wrtlprnft> that's what i see
22:02 <wrtlprnft> did you do an emerge sync recently?
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> benedict apache2 # ls /etc/portage
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> package.keywords
22:03 <wrtlprnft> cat /etc/portage/*
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> benedict apache2 # cat /etc/portage/*
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> ~www-apps/drupal-4.7.0 ~x86
22:04 <wrtlprnft> you need to emerge sync i guess
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> well, haven't done an emerge sync since last time I was fooling with it :)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> yeah, do it
22:04 <wrtlprnft> that package got added on May 5
22:05 <wrtlprnft> so portage can't know about it if you don't add it
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> any idea how easy it is to manage vhosts with gentoo?  Just use apache stuff for it?
22:05 <wrtlprnft> there's a /etc/apache2/vhosts.d :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> you just add another file in there and put a <VirtualHost> directive in there
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's how kubuntu is setup now
22:06  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he emerged mysql
22:07 <wrtlprnft> try starting it
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> Updating Portage cache:
22:07 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that takes a few secs
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> a few, heh
22:07 <wrtlprnft> emerge screen once you have time to fool around with it. really handy.
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> last time it took an hour or so
22:07 <wrtlprnft> it should be faster this time
22:08 <wrtlprnft> but it's a long time since the last update, so...
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> emerge pyqt :)
22:08 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, you update all your stuff by saying emerge -uDav world
22:08 <wrtlprnft> where a and v are optional
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to hve a tendency to type that as:
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> emerge -imDav world
22:09 <wrtlprnft> -i is deprecated
22:09  * Lucifer_arma is named Dave
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> it wasn't a very funny joke
22:09 <wrtlprnft> -Dave might work
22:10 <wrtlprnft> but that will re- emerge everything you have
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> I just want to be able to update apache and kde and a few minor things without having to install another distribution
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> if I can have that, I'm happy
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that's possible
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'd have left it running Mandriva 10.1 if I could've done that :)
22:11 <wrtlprnft> you should do it regulary, though
22:11 <wrtlprnft> I made the experience that updates get hard if you don't update for a month or so
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> is it worth having it in a cronjob?
22:11 <wrtlprnft> better not
22:12 <wrtlprnft> you can put emerge sync into a cronjob
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wake up one morning with a bad server and a test, which one do I do?  ;)
22:12 <wrtlprnft> but for the updating itself you'd better check
22:12 <wrtlprnft> some things like updating mysql require you to do some things manually
22:12 <wrtlprnft> like converting the database
22:13 <wrtlprnft> generally you should be careful if it wants to update important services, baselayout, or the kernel
22:13 <wrtlprnft> and run etc-update before you reboot
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> dammit, it's supposed to be saving me work, not making more
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:14 <wrtlprnft> it's not really lots of work
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> I know, I don't have any idea how it compares until I just do it for awhile
22:15 <wrtlprnft> usually it all goes straight
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but at first it's a pain compared to apt and friends
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> >>> Updating Portage cache:   50%  
22:17 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> seems to be stuck there
22:17 <wrtlprnft> for me it has a tendency to be really slow between 50 and 60
22:17  * n54 keeps his mouth shut :)
22:17 <wrtlprnft> it goes up to 50 really fast, then is really slow and at some point around 60 speeds up again
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> he's quiet for half an hour, then speaks up just to tell he's going to be quiet for more
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> can't understand them damn Vikings sometimes, you know?
22:17 <n54> hehe :D
22:17 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> well I'm a go grab a smoke, then
22:18 <n54> hey I though you quit!
22:18 <wrtlprnft> o_O
22:18 <wrtlprnft> <insert comment here>
22:18  * n54 is seriously addicted to nicotine
22:20 <wrtlprnft> wth do i have 1.55 seconds of lag here?
22:21 <n54> which freenode server are you connectd to+
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!-  channels : #armagetron
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!-  server   : kornbluth.freenode.net [Frankfurt, DE, EU]
22:21 <wrtlprnft> 22:21 -!-           : is identified to services
22:21 <wrtlprnft> why a server in germany now? don't they have some over here?
22:22 <n54> yeah weird, but it explains the lag
22:22 <wrtlprnft> now it's .2 again
22:22 <n54> I guess a few business might start increasing their bandwidth usage around now
22:22 <n54> here in europe that is
22:22 <wrtlprnft> uh
22:23 <wrtlprnft> at 3AM?
22:23 <n54> I've sometimes notices lag "shuddering" a bit in the early morning when I used to play armagetron --- it's 0525 ;)
22:23 <n54> noticed*
22:24 <wrtlprnft> might be 5:25 at your place, but it's 3:23 in Germany
22:24 <wrtlprnft> and that's where the server is
22:24 <n54> same timezone so it shouldn't be
22:24 <wrtlprnft> #g 22+7-24
22:24 <wrtlprnft> bah
22:24 <wrtlprnft> argh
22:24 <n54> http://www.worldtimezone.com/index24.html
22:24 <n54> :)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> ok, it is 5PM
22:25 <n54> timebattle wrtlprnft vs. n54: 1 - 1  :D
22:25 <wrtlprnft> i just kinda translated 10PM to 20:00 ;)
22:25 <n54> :)
22:25 <wrtlprnft> then added 4
22:26 <n54> pm is teh eval :P
22:26 <wrtlprnft> so i got to 24:00/12AM
22:26 <wrtlprnft> and then added the remaining 3 :D
22:26 <n54> yeah it's easy to slip up on that
22:26 <n54> :)
22:26 <wrtlprnft> i know, but everyone here uses it, so i have my clock set to it :(
22:27 <wrtlprnft> I still love the clock in my kicker bar tho
22:27 <wrtlprnft> right now it says Twenty five past ten
22:28 <n54> took me years to remember which part of the day am and pm specified :S
22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm... i just remember AM for "Am Morgen" which is German for "in the morning" :D
22:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, am i still here?
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> sure it's not 5am in germany?
22:31 <wrtlprnft> it is 5:30 in germany
22:31 <wrtlprnft> as i said, i'm just too stupid for timezones ;)
22:31 <wrtlprnft> 254 seconds of lag it says now
22:32 <GodTodd> nope...it's 5:30 am ;)
--- Log closed Tue May 16 22:32:22 2006
--- Log opened Tue May 16 22:33:45 2006
22:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
22:34  * wrtlprnft kicks his provider
22:34 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
22:34 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
22:34 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 48 secs
22:34 <n54> yeah, probably for the best Lucifer
22:34 <wrtlprnft> uh, err, what was the last thing i said (and you got)?
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> um, you said it was like 8pm in germany or something
22:35 <GodTodd> <wrtlprnft> i know, but everyone here uses it, so i have my clock set to it :(
22:35 <wrtlprnft> o_o
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:27 <wrtlprnft> I still love the clock in my kicker bar tho
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:27 <wrtlprnft> right now it says Twenty five past ten
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm... i just remember AM for "Am Morgen" which is German for "in the morning" :D
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, am i still here?
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> it is 5:30 in germany
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> as i said, i'm just too stupid for timezones ;)
22:35 <wrtlprnft> 22:31 <wrtlprnft> 254 seconds of lag it says now
22:36 <n54> oh, I didn't see any of that
22:36 <wrtlprnft> 22:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
22:36 <wrtlprnft> 22:34  * wrtlprnft kicks his provider
22:36 <wrtlprnft> that's it then
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> Total size of downloads: 295,263 kB
22:36 <wrtlprnft> what's that big?
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> emerge -uDav world
22:37 <wrtlprnft> well, there are sizes next to the packages as well
22:37 <wrtlprnft> one of them must be huge
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> I guess this calls for a few rounds of armagetronad
22:37 <wrtlprnft> while downloading?
22:37 <wrtlprnft> good luck
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> I expect it'll spend most of it's time compiling, heh
22:37 <wrtlprnft> true
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> it's my slow computer, after all
22:38  * Lucifer_arma starts armagetron
22:38 <wrtlprnft> bah 800MHz != slow
22:38  * Lucifer_arma is in sumo if anyone wants to join
23:29 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:29 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
23:29 <wrtlprnft> all of IRC exept you played :D
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> 'night wrtlprnft 
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> man n54, you'd love that sumo server
23:30 <wrtlprnft> �$!*#
23:30 <wrtlprnft> i'm handling the kernel myself, portage! no need to mess me up py "updating" it!
23:30 <n54> how so?
23:30 <wrtlprnft> well, kernel.org
23:34 <n54> I meant in relation to the sumo server
23:38 <guru3> don't go shouting about domains at 2am
23:39 <guru3> off to breakfast & exam
23:39 <guru3> cu guys
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> heh, have fun guru3 
23:40 <n54> lol & hi guru3 :)
23:40 <n54> best of luck too, hope it goes well

Log from 2006-05-17:
--- Day changed Wed May 17 2006
00:29 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BA6BC.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
00:29 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B93E5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:37 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> is it safe to abort an emerge?
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> um, when it's updating with 140 packages, and only on #14?
00:56 <z-man-home> if you do it during the build phase, yes
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> so it builds them all first, then installs them?
00:57 <z-man-home> No, for every package, it unpacks the source, builds into a temporary directory, installs into a temporary directory, then copies the contents of that into your file system
00:57 <z-man-home> only the last bit could be dangerous to abort
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's on #17, which is glibc.  Does that means it's already installed up to #16?  Which includes gcc...
00:58 <z-man-home> IIRC, there are lots of >>>> on the screen during that phase
00:58 <z-man-home> yes
01:10 <Luke-Jr> merging stage is shortest ;)
01:10 <Luke-Jr> I think it changes the window title too
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, 140 packages is going to take a long time
01:10 <Luke-Jr> FWIW, no-ip SUCKS for any real DNS
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> so I wanted to cut it off and see if I could get the webserver back up right now and then do the update again, with a working webserver and the thing sitting on my machine
01:11 <Luke-Jr> I host my own DNS, thank you :)
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> ?  haven't had any problems with them....
01:11 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: you haven't tried to do much then
01:12 <Luke-Jr> like, for example, fourth-level domains, SRV records, etc...
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, not really.
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm, do you really want to use a dynamic ip dns service if you have that much stuff to do?
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I think my calc teacher fudged some numbers, 'cause I don't see it
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> he says I got a 77 on the final (much lower than I expected), but still pulled an A for the class
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> no way, the numbers don't hold up.
01:13 <Luke-Jr> If you really want to use a dynamic DNS service, you really don't want to pay for it
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> not that I"m complaining, mind you.
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> why not?
01:13 <Luke-Jr> no point
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> 'splain
01:13 <Luke-Jr> why pay for a SLD when you're only resolving a single machine?
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> because that single machine changes ip addresses every now and again
01:14 <Luke-Jr> it can have a 3LD
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> 3LD?
01:14 <Luke-Jr> third-level
01:14  * Lucifer_arma doesn't know much about dns
01:14 <Luke-Jr> foo.bar.net
01:14 <Luke-Jr> or foobar.no-ip.com
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> right.  but I want it to be www.davefancella.com
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> and no-ip doesn't offer that one without money
01:15 <Luke-Jr> but if you're going to get that, might as well set it up for all your systems
01:15 <Luke-Jr> computername.davefancella.com
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> right, my one system :)
01:15 <Luke-Jr> you have only one computer? O.o
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> I have several, but only 2 that are currently in use, and one of those is frequently mobile
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> the others are more spare parts than computer
01:16 <Luke-Jr> mobile doesn't stop it from having an IP =p
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> when it's at home, it shares an IP.  Um, on the internet anyway.  nat here, of course
01:17 <Luke-Jr> that's fixable
01:17 <Luke-Jr> with IPv6
01:17 <Luke-Jr> yay for having a /64 (or was it a /128?)
01:17 <Lucifer_arma> and the ISP in my area that offers IPv6 is ...?
01:18 <Luke-Jr> /exec -o ping -c 1
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> how do I list unmounted partitions?
01:19 <Luke-Jr> compare /etc/fstab and /etc/mtab
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm, I want to find partitions that aren't listed in fstab
01:20 <Luke-Jr> ...
01:20 <Luke-Jr> fdisk?
01:22 <n54> or cfdisk if one likes curses :)
01:22 <Luke-Jr> n54: I assume 'list' means non-UI
01:23 <n54> iirc cfdisk is ok with being run in a terminal
01:23 <Luke-Jr> UI doesn't mean GUI
01:24 <Luke-Jr> cfdisk isn't going to handle stdio communication with a script or program well
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> found the partition I was looking for
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> when I made this fstab, I left out the mandriva partitions, forgetting I needed to copy some of them over more or less unchanged
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> so, after I aborted that big emerge update thingee, if I emerge another package, will it attempt to pick up that big emerge all over again?
01:27 <Luke-Jr> no
01:27 <Luke-Jr> it will forget it
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  I did this so half-assed.  I didn't dump the databases, so now I have nothing to bring in.
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> last question about that emerge.  :)
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> if I reboot, is my system likely to be broken?
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> I guess technically that was my first question and is already answered, and there's only one way to find out anyway
01:30  * Lucifer_arma turns it off and puts it back in the bedroom
01:31 <Luke-Jr> er
01:31 <Luke-Jr> why would your system be broken?
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> because I did emerge -uDav world and stopped it?
01:31 <Luke-Jr> so?
01:32 <Luke-Jr> ...
01:32 <z-man-home> Essential libraries may have already been updated to incompatible versions and the non-updated programs still rely on the old, now removed version.
01:32 <z-man-home> That can happen and your system is broken.
01:33 <Luke-Jr> z-man-home: essential libraries are binary compatible
01:33 <z-man-home> Theory :)
01:33 <Luke-Jr> practice too
01:33 <Luke-Jr> unless you depend on DirectFB
01:33 <Luke-Jr> which sucks for compatibility
01:33 <z-man-home> not if you change our USE flags
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> server
01:33 <Luke-Jr> even if you do
01:33 <Luke-Jr> in most cases
01:34 <z-man-home> most :)
01:34 <Luke-Jr> obviously changing from linux to bsd will break stuff
01:34 <z-man-home> I *almost* had to do a reinstall when I switched to USE=minimal on my old laptop
01:34 <z-man-home> because not even the basic programs like ln, ls, cp were working any more
01:35 <z-man-home> If I hadn't had a still running sshd, I'd have been screwed
01:35 <Luke-Jr> binpkg
01:35 <z-man-home> emerge didn't work any more, either
01:35 <z-man-home> NOTHING worked
01:36 <Luke-Jr> binary packages don't need emerge
01:36 <Luke-Jr> just boot a LiveCD and extract them over your root
01:36 <z-man-home> well, mr superbrain, that whould be a reinstall, right?
01:36 <Luke-Jr> no
01:36 <Luke-Jr> you just extract the package you want to revert
01:36 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:37 <z-man-home> the affected files were in baselayout
01:37 <Luke-Jr> baselayout doesn't, AFAIK, contain any libs...
01:37 <z-man-home> all over the place, really
01:37 <z-man-home> Besides, my laptop can't boot from CD
01:37 <Luke-Jr> no, no... you revert the upgrade that broke crap
01:37 <Luke-Jr> that's dumb =p
01:38 <z-man-home> The installation had to be done from another PC, transplanting the HD
01:38 <Luke-Jr> eww
01:38 <z-man-home> see? :) I'd have been screwed without the running sshd that allowed me to scp files from a working installation over :)
01:38 <Luke-Jr> good thing you had a working one
01:39 <Luke-Jr> all my machines are different architectures
01:39 <Luke-Jr> one x86, one amd64, one ppc, and one arm
01:39 <Luke-Jr> oh, and one mips
01:39 <Luke-Jr> if you count the WRT54G
01:40 <Luke-Jr> Microsoft mice are evil
01:40 <Luke-Jr> they decide to turn off randomly
01:40  * z-man-home is amazed by the sudden toic change
01:40 <Luke-Jr> with that, I will say goodnight and go sleep
01:40 <z-man-home> night
01:41 <z-man-home> Probably, they only do that in Linux :)
01:41 <Luke-Jr> anything I do still can amaze you? wow
01:41 <Luke-Jr> dunno, supposedly it's the wire
01:41 <z-man-home> not really :)
01:41 <Luke-Jr> maybe Windoze has a workaround for buggy wires
01:41 <Luke-Jr> too bad my wife stole my wireless non-M$ mouse
01:41 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:42 <Luke-Jr> ok, I'm really gone now
01:42 <Luke-Jr> bye
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> my microsoft mouse is the greatest thing in the world
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's a teeny tiny thing, for laptops.  wireless, with a little clip-on place on the bottom of the mouse for the usb wireless plug thingeemabobber
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's awesome
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> c'mon armabot, get in here
01:44 <n54> hmm I wish I had a normal keyboard but with an inbuilt laptop-mouse pointer in the middle, those that look like pencil-end rubbers --heck I'd like two :D
01:45 <z-man-home> LO-GI-TECH! LO-GI-TECH! :)
01:45 <n54> hehe :D they have it?
01:46 <z-man-home> n54: I think there are keyboards that have that, not sure where to get them
01:46 <z-man-home> no, I was just countering Lucifer_arma's Microsoft praise :)
01:46 <n54> yeah odds are you're right (I haven't really searched for it)
01:46 <n54> oh ok lol :)
01:46 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:46 <z-man-home> I also have a MS mouse, but it's the serial one that came with my very first computer
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> yay, armabot's here
01:47 <n54> #whoami
01:47 <z-man-home> And a MS joystick, which I'm happy with, a MS gamepad that sucks, and a Saitek Force Feedback wheel essentially build like a MS one which doesn't have any drivers for XP and 2000, grrr
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> I saw a neat keyboard at an auto parts store awhile back.  Between the keypad and the, umm, the rest, there was one of those touchpads like laptops have
01:48 <n54> I prefer the "mini-rubber-joystick" devices over touchpads
01:49 <n54> but still a keyboard like that if wireless + a comfy office chair would be heaven! :D
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> armabot's here, why the hell can't I ssh into the machine now?
01:50 <n54> hmm armabot doesn't seem awake to me...
01:50 <n54> #echo hello
01:52 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> machine stalled while booting
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> stopped at "Loading usb printer"
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> um, booting into Mandriva
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:55 <n54> hope it works out, although it sounds like it might be a tedious process
01:55 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> nah, it was just stupid stuff.  I plugged the usb cable into a different plug.
01:55 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> That really annoys me.
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
01:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I don't recognize you.
01:56 <n54> ok time to reidentify :)
01:56 <z-man-home> That message could me a bit more lifelike. "I don't know you. Who are you? Get away from me! AAAAARGH!"
01:57 <n54> lol :D
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> don't get too comfortable, I'm bootig it back into gentoo in a little bit
01:58 <n54> ah ok np of course
01:58 <z-man-home> Bah, it's raining, and the pigeons left some presents on my bicycle
01:58 <n54> :|
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> fucking pigeons
01:59 <z-man-home> Good thing it has a raincover :)
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> not worth eating, not worth living, what do you do with them?
01:59 <z-man-home> apparently, some idiots feed them
01:59 <n54> some eat them
02:00 <Lucifer_arma> vi dump.sql wasn't a good idea
02:00 <n54> hehe there was a big story about some greek restaurants in london making ample use of pigeons a few years back :S
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> it'd take like 5 of the little things to get full!?!
02:01 <n54> well probably but there's no shortage
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> eventually we'd run out
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if they could be bred to get as big as chickens?
02:03 <z-man-home> I'd certainly want to keep those away from my bike, then
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> haha
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, why is armabot still here?
02:03 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> go away, armabot
02:04 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:04 <n54> lol
02:04 <n54> @the super-pigeons I mean :)
02:05 <z-man-home> I saw a documentary that showed in detail how chicken are handled before we eat them....
02:05 <z-man-home> the part where they're beheaded by rotating blades was NOT the worst bit.
02:06 <n54> according to some national geographic program I saw a while ago we'll have our hands full with the coming boar infestation anyway so the pigeons are safe ;)
02:06 <z-man-home> before that, the'yre essentially handled like screws.
02:06 <n54> yeah it's not pretty
02:06 <z-man-home> they're tossed around, put on conveyor belts
02:07 <z-man-home> especially the little ones
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm......  that's kind of a side effect of having to mass produce the things
02:07 <z-man-home> treated like fucking things
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> if they could just grow 20-30 pound chickens, maybe they could be slaughtered with more, um, honor?
02:07 <z-man-home> yes, it's mass production only
02:07 <z-man-home> yes, they can
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> those the chickens that are all pumped up with hormones and crap anyway, right?
02:08 <z-man-home> well, they're still slaughtered, but at least, they have a good chicken life before that
02:08 <n54> depends, real good feed can produce the same results
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> you know, the ones that'll cause 1st-graders to start puberty....
02:08 <z-man-home> right, those chickens
02:08 <n54> well better actually
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> alright, well, now I've got the database into the gentoo installation
02:09 <z-man-home> but it takes more time and effort, right? And we only see the price tag in the supermarket
02:10 <z-man-home> so we make up excuses to buy the cheap stuff
02:10 <n54> yes, would be nice if it was different, perhaps some day it will be - synthetic meat and all that
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, that's an old dump.  erg
02:11 <z-man-home> like the ubiquious story of the organic farmer that has his fields directly next to the highway, well, how organic can that be?
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> um, I'll give you that we periodically buy the cheap stuff, but for the most part, we stick to the "free range" stuff, which is treated quite a bit differently
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's a little more money per pound, but my first grader hasn't started puberty yet :)
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> same with milk, eggs, um, beef, etc.
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it's not utopia, but it is the best stuff available right now
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> trying again with the right db dump file
02:13 <n54> these thing are in general better in norway, stricter, at least that's the impression I have compared to the rest of europe, we have fewer super-farms primarily due to the landscape
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> how much food do you import?
02:14 <n54> not that much really, but some of course
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> I hear they treat chickens really well in France :)
02:14 <n54> mostly out-of-season greens and sych though
02:14 <n54> yeah terrible stuff, force-feeding geese and such
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh, meat's never really out of season, I suppose
02:15 <n54> nope not really
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that a boar infestation would be all that bad.  I hear boar tastes really good
02:15 <z-man-home> We (Sibila and me)'re mostly vegan. Some eggs for me sometimes, some Milk, some cheese. What we can, we buy organic.
02:15 <z-man-home> Of course, we don't have children that need to grow up :)
02:16 <n54> hehe well texas was one of the areas in the us featured so... ;) but ti's actually illegal to shoot them or something like that - at least for the present time
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> problem with organic, of course, is that to be competitive, organic farmers are kinda stuck with genetically modified foods
02:16 <z-man-home> not here :)
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Maybe y'all don't have the huge corporate farms yet?
02:16 <n54> I absolutely have an aim of eating more vegetables than I currently do
02:16 <z-man-home> Europe is still very sceptical about gentech
02:17  * n54 really dislikes gm foods
02:17 <z-man-home> and one of the conditions to be considered organic is gentech-freeness
02:17 <n54> the science of the "safety" of gm just doesn't hold up
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have a rule of portions my wife tries to ignore but gets bitched at for it.
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> for my whole family, for a dinner, it's:
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> 1 pound of meat, 2 pounds of starch (potatoes, rice, whatever), and 1 pound of vegetables
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> with 4 pounds of food, I can feed them all nicely.
02:18 <n54> well you know rules like that can't fit all
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> nah, it just works out that way.  I also tell her if she goes thin on the meat to balance with vegetables, because if she balances with the starch, we'll all get fat.
02:18 <n54> :)
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'll probably have to increase it to 5 pounds total at some point in the next few years
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm hoping to only have to increase the vegetables, though.
02:19 <n54> well you have kids
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> I like meat, don't get me wrong.  But I like vegetables too, and they're damn cheap by comparison.
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> my kids eat a lot of vegetables.
02:20 <n54> I absolutely love meat, but vegetables too, starch etc. doesn't sit well with me but then again I'm ill and it explains some of why it doesn't
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> I swear, if it weren't for all the idiot adults that freak out when they see a small kid eating vegetables, my kids wouldn't have any hangups on the matter
02:20 <n54> freak out?
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> "She eats lettuce?!?"
02:21 <z-man-home> what's wrong with vegetables?
02:21 <n54> why the hell is that a problem to them?
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> "Oh dear, are you sure you'll like <insert vegetable here>?"
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> beats me.
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> Actually, I know why.
02:21 <z-man-home> ah, stereotypes :)
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> Because most Americans are lazy.
02:21 <Lucifer_arma> And they let their kids walk all over them.
02:22 <n54> well that goes in most cultures afaik, at least most western ones
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> we figured it was pretty simple, easy to figure out.  If the kid's hungry, he'll eat.  Right?  Simple.
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> And we laid down the rule, if you want seconds, you have to finish your firsts.  Simple, right?
02:22 <n54> yup
02:22 <n54> same as I was taught
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> I won't say we never cave, but like I say, my kids eat most vegetables, and they like them.
02:22 <n54> in addition to "never take more than you can finish"
02:23 <n54> yeah of course one can be lenient at times, that's natural, but it's good to hae a "base" so to speak
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> we don't push that last one, I've gotten really good at figuring out proportions that I rarely put too much or too little on their plates.
02:23 <n54> anyway I don't have children so I might be a big hypocrite right now ^_^
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> heh, tonight I made that same ol' chicken, spinach, and carrot stir fry I make at least once a week.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> my kids love it so much, they clean their plates and want seconds not because they're hungry, but because they love it so much.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> spinach!  carrots!  Stuff most parents around here are too chickenshit to feed their kids!
02:26  * Lucifer_arma rants off in the corner
02:26 <n54> probably means your not destroying/removing the vitamins & other good stuff when preparing it - especially the greens
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> man, they get so wired after it, too.  :)
02:26 <n54> I'm kind of weird I prefer eating only vegetables when I eat vegetables
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the spinach is very lightly cooked.  Enough to break down the, uhhh, walls?, in the right places, but not too much.
02:26 <n54> cell walls
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> maybe.  Whatever it is, it's the reason raw spinach isn't supposed to be very good for you, but cooked spinach is, provided you don't overcook it.
02:27 <n54> "cellulose walls" is probably a more correct way of putting it
02:29 <n54> my favourite vegetable is chinese cabbage, what are yours z-man & lucifer?
02:29 <z-man-home> broccoli
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> damn, why isn't php working on my new webserver?
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> steamed broccoli is pretty high on my list
02:30 <n54> yeah broccoli is nice too
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> I don't really have favorite foods, I don't think.
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> I have this hobby, cooking, that I really love to pursue.  :)  eating, well, it follows from cooking but I try to be sensible.
02:31 <z-man-home> me neither, but I don't know the English names of the other stuff I eat :)
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> sauerkraut = shit :)
02:31 <z-man-home> bua, yes
02:31 <z-man-home> except in a sallad
02:31 <n54> I like almost all my vegetables raw so cooking skills luckily isn't that much of an issue for me :D
02:32  * n54 likes sauerkraut if it is what I think it is
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> only way I've ever seen sauerkraut was steamed and tossed on sausage, like on a bun
02:32 <n54> "surk?l" in norwegian
02:32 <z-man-home> yeah, and the saussage usually is awful
02:32 <n54> ok well it fits fatty meat dishes best
02:32 <z-man-home> that's bavarian food, it's quite... heavy
02:33 <n54> yup logging food we call that up here :)
02:33 <n54> or "loggers food"
02:34 <z-man-home> Beans rule, too. Beans + rice = yum
02:34 <z-man-home> the little round beans, not the long green ones
02:34 <z-man-home> umm, you probably don't call the long green ones beans
02:34 <n54> I've heard it said that sauerkraut/surk?l is actually meant to be superhealthy and good for cleaning the system of various nasty stuff
02:35 <n54> peas perhaps?
02:35 <z-man-home> Yes, the long green beans sort of look like the things peas come in
02:35 <n54> ooh
02:35 <z-man-home> but they don't have peas in them
02:36 <z-man-home> they're just long and green and taste like, umm, long green pieces of plant?
02:36 <n54> heh you just reminded me of how good raw seat peas are, with their outer shell too, not just the peas
02:36 <n54> sweat*
02:36 <n54> hmm not sure what you're thinking of though
02:37 <n54> what's the german name?
02:37 <z-man-home> bohnen
02:37 <z-man-home> the same name we give beans
02:37  * z-man-home shrugs
02:37 <n54> oh.. perhaps they're just beans in english too then
02:37 <n54> yeah "b?nner" in norwegian
02:38 <z-man-home> http://www.wdr.de/tv/service/essen/inhalt/20040924/bilder/02.jpg
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> long green ones = string beans, or green beans
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> now how the hell do I get php to use mysql?  :(
02:39 <z-man-home> sometimes, you have to set the right use flags
02:39 <z-man-home> like USE=php mysql
02:39 <z-man-home> to make php compile with mysql support
02:40 <z-man-home> and mysql compile with php bindings
02:40 <z-man-home> One of them usually suffices, and documentation on these parts is usually poor
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> so when I do emerge -pv dev-lang/php, I get a list of + and - stuff
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> does + mean it will compile with that thing built in?
02:45 <z-man-home> I never used that, mom
02:45 <z-man-home> the -v part, I mean
02:46 <z-man-home> I think, yes, those are the optional bits
02:47 <z-man-home> so if it says +mysql, you're home
02:47 <z-man-home> for me, it says -mysql
02:47 <z-man-home> only +sqllite
02:47 <z-man-home> err +sqlite
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, it says +mysql
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's dev-lang/php
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> which is php5, which hopefully drupal runs under
02:49 <Lucifer_arma> and mediawiki, for that matter
02:49 <z-man-home> then mysql support should be there
02:50 <z-man-home> you activated mysql globally in make.conf?
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> I couldn't get it to tell me about the php4 that was previously installed
02:50 <Lucifer_arma> so I unmerged the old php stuff and am emerging php5 now
02:50 <z-man-home> ah, it's only telling you what it was going to do if you really install, it does not tell you what IS already installed
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't activate mysql globally in make.conf
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, -pv = pretend, verbose
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> configure.in:141: warning: AC_PROG_LEX invoked multiple times
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> autoconf/programs.m4:438: AC_DECL_YYTEXT is expanded from...
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> acinclude.m4:2056: PHP_PROG_LEX is expanded from...
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> configure.in:141: the top level
02:51 <Lucifer_arma> that stuff irritates me
02:52 <z-man-home> you can edit the corresponding files
02:52 <z-man-home> It's not that much work, I did it
02:52 <z-man-home> emerge -pv "<dev-lang/php-5.0"
02:53 <z-man-home> gives you info about php 4.x
02:53 <z-man-home> and of course, without the -p, you could install it
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> +mysql
02:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.........  something ain't right
02:54 <z-man-home> Dunno. My Trac test setup uses sqlite, never touched mysql
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, I emerged php originally very early in the installation, maybe I should have done it later I guess
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> seems like it shouldn't matter, though
02:56 <z-man-home> yes, if it depens on mysql, it would have been installed afterwards
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> -I/usr/include/mysql
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> it at least looks like it's doing it right
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll finally get the math stuff working for mediawiki
02:58 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke while this is going on.  I'm  little too happy about maybe *might* having my "new" server running
03:00 <n54> :)
03:03 <deja_vu_> *yaaawn*
03:03 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
03:04 <n54> good morning deja_vu :)
03:04 <deja_vu> :]
03:04 <deja_vu> hey n54 
03:09  * Lucifer_arma yawns
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> long day
03:09 <n54> yeah must be late in texas by now
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> 3am
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> woke up at 9am
03:09 <Lucifer_arma> ~3 hours earlier than usual
03:10 <n54> your exams are done?
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> got straight A's.  :)
03:10 <n54> :)
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> er, not on the exams, but for the semester
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> so my 4 gpa is still in tact.  :)
03:10 <n54> yeah got you, as final grades
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> but I swear my calc teacher had to fudge the numbers, I don't see how it could have worked out.
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if you remember, but I had determined I needed at least an 87 on the final there, and I got a 77
03:11 <n54> well teachers are supposed to ahve a certain degree of leeway in setting the final grade aren't they?
03:11 <n54> yeah but you also said it wouldn't count if it was the worst
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they do.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he gave me a point or two to avoid being the one that drops my gpa
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> no, all the calc tests counted.  It was two of my other classes that dropped a test
03:12 <n54> ok
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> #g (95 + 87 + 92 + 94 + 77)/5
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> duh
03:14 <n54> 445/5 = 89 if my mind is awake
03:14 <n54> *finds a calculator*
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> python says it's 89.0
03:15 <n54> Xcalc too
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> (.9 * (95.0 + 87.0 + 92.0 + 94.0 + 77.0)/5.0) + (.1 * 94)
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> that gives an 89.5
03:16 <n54> what was the purpose of that one?
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> assumes a 94 on the homework average, though, which I'd feel pretty weird if I got tht high on homework this time
03:16 <Lucifer_arma> it's weighted.  90% of the grade is tests, 10% is homework, with that formula.
03:17 <n54> he might have felt it just to give you a 100 score on homework & schoolwork combined so as to give you an overall A
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> he might have.  Looking at it now it doesn't seem like he had to fudge too much, actually.
03:17 <n54> yup
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> one thing's for certain, I'm glad I signed up for his Calc II class next semester :)
03:18 <n54> :)
03:20 <z-man-home> finally, it stopped raining
03:20  * z-man-home wants to see if he can get to work before z-man-home times out
03:20 <n54> hehe :)
03:22 <guru3> back
03:22 <n54> hi :) test over?
03:22 <guru3> yup
03:22 <guru3> that was the last of psychology
03:22 <guru3> only chem & span to go
03:22 <guru3> hablais espanol?
03:22 <n54> :)
03:23 <n54> no senor :)
03:23 <guru3> :)
03:23 <n54> are they today too?
03:24 <guru3> no
03:24 <guru3> if they were i wouldn't be here
03:24 <guru3> chem paper 1 & 2 tomorrow
03:24 <n54> ok :)
03:24 <guru3> chem paper 3 on friday
03:24 <guru3> spanish paper 1 & 2 next tuesday
03:25 <guru3> fun fun ufn
03:25 <n54> hehe
03:25 <guru3> "fun"
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> yay, wiki's back up
03:26 <n54> :)
03:27 <guru3> grand Lucifer
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> my website's up now
03:29 <guru3> grand
03:29 <guru3> i have to know a lot of schitt for chemistry :/
03:30 <n54> hi or low level?
03:31 <guru3> hi
03:31 <guru3>  gher
03:31 <n54> :S
03:31 <guru3> aye
03:31 <guru3> like 220 hours of lesson time over the alst 2 years
03:32 <guru3> and i didn't even learn how to make bombs :(
03:32 <n54> lol :D
03:33 <guru3> i did learn about like acid rain tho
03:33 <guru3> CO2 + H2O -> H2CO3
03:33 <guru3> H2CO3 -> H+ + HCO3-
03:33 <guru3> and there's your acid
03:33 <n54> :)
03:33 <guru3> of course then
03:34 <z-man-work> herhe
03:34 <guru3> SO3 + H2O -> H2SO4 -> H+ + HSO4-
03:34 <z-man-work> haha, beat the Internet!
03:34 <n54> you made it z-man :)
03:34 <guru3> and also
03:34 <guru3> NO2 + H2O -> H2NO3 -> H+ + HNO3-
03:35 <guru3> vive le acid rain!
03:35 <guru3> er i mean
03:35 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man-ftl
03:35 <guru3> acid rain is very bad!
03:35 <n54> hehe guru3
03:35 <n54> lol ftl :)
03:35 <guru3> ftl?
03:35 <n54> faster than light ;)
03:35 <guru3> obviously, i've been missing a lot of what goes on here
03:36 <n54> z-man raced the internet :)
03:36 <guru3> it's physically impossible to go faster than the speed of light
03:36 <z-man-ftl> Gave myself a head start, gotta admit that
03:36 <guru3> i've got the equation here somewhere...
03:36 <guru3> yeah
03:36 <z-man-ftl> depends on the definition of the speed of light :) You can slow light down
03:36 <guru3> u'x = (ux - v)/(1- uxv/c^2)
03:37 <guru3> gah fine
03:37 <guru3> you can go faster than the speed of light if your light isn't going in a vaccum
03:37 <z-man-ftl> right
03:37 <guru3> but if you're not careful your light will bend
03:37 <guru3> and you'll go slow
03:37 <n54> these days I saw they're "sending it in reverse" or some such as well... crazy scientists ;P j/k
03:37 <z-man-ftl> yes, but it's a cheap trick :)
03:37 <n54> :)
03:38 <z-man-ftl> a useful experiment, though
03:38 <guru3> i love how in the relative frames of reference
03:38 <guru3> the other person's clock is going slow
03:38 <guru3> cause of time contraction
03:38 <guru3> that's how them there muons get from the atmosphere to earth :)
03:38  * guru3 curses having done the relativity option in physics
03:39 <z-man-ftl> from our viewpoint :) From the viewpoint of the muons, i'ts the length contraction.
03:39 <z-man-ftl> They think they only have to travel 500m or so
03:39 <guru3> got that little y thingy there
03:39 <guru3> i forget the name of it
03:39 -!- z-man-ftl is now known as z-man
03:39 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:40 <guru3> that factor thing
03:40 <guru3> argh what's it called
03:40 <z-man> Next time, I'll include doing the dishes in the race
03:40 <n54> hehe
03:40 <guru3> the 1 / (1 - v^2/c^2)^1/2 thing
03:40 <z-man> beta, it's called
03:41 <z-man> or gamma?
03:41 <guru3> gamma
03:41 <guru3> that's it
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> I lied, my sites don't work
03:41 <n54> ooh _that_ "y-thing"
03:41 <guru3> yes that y thing
03:41 <guru3> we forgive you lucifer
03:41 <n54> third letter of the greek alphabet y-thing :)
03:41 <guru3> yeah i guess
03:42 <guru3> you'll forgive me if i say i'm not really sure...
03:42 <z-man> well, I sort of get something for the drupal bookmark
03:42  * n54 is very sure
03:42 <guru3> you know greak?
03:42 <n54> nah but I know nuclear radiation types :)
03:43 <n54> also I sometimes use greek letters for numbering
03:43 <guru3> yes that's the one
03:43 <z-man> and the wiki works, too
03:43 <z-man> haven't tried to log in, though
03:44 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
03:44 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
03:44 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: what do you think of trying to set up one of those redundant database things?
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> I think it's a great idea, whoever it was that dreamed it up
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> :)
03:45  * z-man knows database stuff is way over his head
03:45 <guru3> see how internet latency effects it
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> not right this minute, though
03:45 <guru3> doh ><
03:45  * guru3 starts looking around wildy
03:46  * n54 is half asleep and has to go to bed soon
03:46 <guru3> :o
03:47 <n54> trying to timeshift myself into the right timezone but well... :)
03:48 <guru3> :o
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> AllowOverride not allowed here  <-- bullshit!
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: can you do me a favor?  heh
03:51 <z-man> depends on the favor :)
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> in the test drupal, go to administration->Settings and find the box that says "clean urls" and uncheck it?
03:51 <z-man> The requested URL /admin was not found on this server.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, lemme give you a link
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=admin/settings
03:53 <z-man> disabled it
03:54 <guru3> http://www.raudat.net/~zz/tampere.png
03:54 <guru3> aparently that means that
03:54 <guru3> people in finland at new years
03:54 <guru3> like to look @ goatse Oo
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?  it's still giving me clean urls.  Hmmmm.........
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, you probably couldn't submit the form.  ARgh!
03:56 <z-man> Yes, it's disabled, but I get only short urls, too
03:56 <z-man> but you're right, reloading the form made the thing snap back to clean url.
03:57 <guru3> fix the database manually man!
03:57 <z-man> There are some warning messages, in the body:
03:57 <z-man> <div id="message"><div class="messages error">
03:57 <z-man>  <ul>
03:57 <z-man>   <li>warning:
03:57 <z-man> Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output
03:57 <z-man> started at /www/home/includes/database.mysql.inc:120) in
03:57 <z-man> /www/home/includes/common.inc on line 139.</li>
03:58 <z-man>   <li>The directory <em>files</em> is not writable</li>
03:58 <z-man>  </ul>
03:58 <z-man> </div>
03:58 <z-man> </div>
03:58 <z-man> and on the top:
03:58 <z-man> ah, something irrelevant about latin1_swedish :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> right, fixed that for the moment
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: I already tried to fix the database manually
03:59 <guru3> :/
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> clean_url  	s:1:"";        <-- what should it be to disable it?
04:01 <n54> lol tank @ finland & goatse
04:02 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: try "disabled"
04:02 <guru3> or false
04:02 <guru3> or
04:02 <guru3> read the source
04:02 <n54> I'M surprised _anyone_ would search for that
04:02 <guru3> to see what it checks it against
04:04 <guru3> our top search region in google
04:04 <guru3> is...
04:04 <guru3> poland!
04:04 <n54> ?
04:04 <n54> for armagetron+
04:04 <guru3> yeah
04:05 <n54> guess that means we should try to support all polish glyphs in the font at some point in time :)
04:06 <guru3> it's weird
04:06 <guru3> looks like poland turns up for a lot of stuff
04:06 <n54> I think f/oss is pretty big in poland
04:06 <n54> I'e come across a few polish distros and various stuff
04:07 <guru3> it's weird
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04:08 <n54> hi MaZuffeR :) hehe guru3 should show you that link about finland & google he showed me :)
04:08 <MaZuffeR> hi
04:08 <guru3> http://www.raudat.net/~zz/tampere.png
04:09 <n54> we would like some sort of explanation ;) j/k
04:10 <MaZuffeR> saw that earlier
04:10 <guru3> that just cracks me up
04:10 <MaZuffeR> i'm innocent, i don't live in neither Helsinki nor Tampere ;)
04:10 <n54> hehe me too, but it really doesn't make any sense :)
04:10 <n54> hehe ok :)
04:10 <guru3> as our finnish ambassador we demand the truth!
04:11 <n54> :)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ok, rebooting into mandriva, I'll finish this another day
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> man, Fins are barbarians, everybody knows that.  Aren't the Huns from around there?
04:14 <n54> nah huns are from Hungary, and Finland is probably the most rational of the nordic countries imo
04:14 <guru3> aren't huns from hungary?
04:14 <n54> yup guru3 I think so
04:14 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
04:15 <n54> incidentally finnish and hungarian are the only real european languages left
04:15 <guru3> they're also impossible
04:15 <guru3> but hey, who's counting!
04:15 <n54> :)
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> armabot's back
04:15 <n54> #hello armabot :)
04:15 <armabot> Hello n54 :)
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> #hello armabot
04:16 <armabot> Hello Lucifer_arma :)
04:16 <MaZuffeR> how does finnish
04:17 <MaZuffeR> count as a european language
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's one of the two languages that just plain aren't known outside europe?
04:18 <n54> no it's one of two major languages that are from before the indo-european settlement, i.e. original european languages (might be wrong term)
04:18 <n54> some smaller ones like sami also belong to the same language group afaik
04:18 <MaZuffeR> and estonian in that case
04:18 <n54> ah yes sorry, forgot about estonian
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> Finnish is a member of the Finno-Ugric language family
04:19 <n54> and probably gaelic as well
04:19 <n54> yup
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> wikipedia rules
04:19 <guru3> Oo
04:19 <n54> :)
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> aha, original russkie language, from before the slavs got to russia
04:21 <z-man> Err, Huns as in Attila the Hun?
04:21 <n54> yeah think so z-man
04:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, those huns
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> the same ones that provided mercenary units for Rome
04:22 <z-man> They're originally from China, methinks
04:22 <z-man> or around China
04:22  * Lucifer_arma notes that those Huns were fairly widespread
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> Sure you're not htinking of Kushans?
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> The Huns were a confederation of Eurasian tribes, most likely of diverse origin with a Turkic-speaking aristocracy,
04:23 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun
04:23 <guru3> hiccups :/
04:23 <n54> *brain explodes from too much info*
04:24 <n54> details, details, we're all from africa anyway - or something like that ;)
04:24  * guru3 wipes up the mess
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> jesus, how many people came from the steppes?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> there's like one migration after another from the steppes
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> why are there so many people being born there, and then leaving?
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> is there like a person factory somewhere in there?
04:25 <n54> ever lived in the countryside Lucifer?
04:25 <n54> (that's the answer like) ;D
04:25 <guru3> n54: he lives in texas you know :P
04:25 <z-man> Migration doesn't usually work like that, Luci :)
04:25 <n54> yeah but smack dabble in the middle of a gazillion other texans :)
04:26 <guru3> and?
04:26 <guru3> texas is like one huge country side
04:26 <z-man> It's not "it sucks here, lets pack our bags, walk some thousand kilomenters, then settle there"
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I don't have any idea where I got the idea huns came from Finland
04:26 <n54> well teh countryside is different :)
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> Texas is 80% urbanized, didn't we cover this a few days ago?
04:26 <z-man> It's rather "This place is crowded, let's found a new vilage. Over the hill there, it looks nice"
04:26 <n54> yup
04:26 <guru3> you're forgetting i rarely pay a lot of attention here
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, the thing is, the steppes man, aren't they like really really barren?
04:27 <n54> it's was probably at 3am or something :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> according to Jules Vernes (a frenchmen, therefore a known liar, heh heh), nobody lives on the steppes
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> except a few hardened russian criminals
04:27 <n54> nah they're lush and plentiful and very very very _very_ boring if you get my drift :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> of course, that book was written in the 19th century...
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> but nothing but flat, with a few hills, stagnant water, and lots of wind.  No rain, few rivers, etc.
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> kinda like Kansas
04:28 <n54> lol
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> only colder
04:28 <n54> cold != inactivity, quite the opposite...
04:28 <z-man> There's animals to hunt and herd there
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> clearly life can be supported, but man.  India had just one invasion from the steppes after another.  Persia, too!
04:29 <z-man> The nomads mostly live of their herded animals
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> and then there's a few civilizations built and collapsed
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's almost more active than some areas around the mediterranean for a long time, except nothing ever really stayed
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> like that guy that kept building castles in the swamps, only they never got one to stay up
04:29 <z-man> :)
04:30 <z-man> two, one burned down
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> :)
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> and if the huns have been traced genetically to the chinese, then it seems like the chinese are either steppe people, or the steppe people were just chinese on their way west
04:31  * Lucifer_arma has a vague memory of Chinese being known steppe people already
04:31 <Lucifer_arma> ack.  I'm not a historian, I won't worry about it.  It's waaaay past my bedtime.  'night
04:32 <z-man> night
04:32 <n54> the chinese are lots of different people though
04:32 <n54> cya :)
04:32 <guru3> whops i read historian as histarian
04:33 <n54> what is a histarian?
04:33 <guru3> as in like histeria
04:33 <guru3> or hysteria
04:33 <n54> ah
04:33 <guru3> or however the hell it's spelt
04:33 <n54> last one was right afaik
04:43 <z-man> off to evaluate 16 student homeworks, yay
04:43 <n54> :)
04:48 <guru3> hf
04:50 <guru3> bbl
04:51 <n54> cya all, have a nice day (and if you see any crazy flagwaving norwegians it's because it's our constitution day) :D
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05:43 -!- spider_ is now known as McSpiddles
05:43 <McSpiddles> d00d
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08:23 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
08:26 <wrtlprnft> morning
08:26 <wrtlprnft> did Lucfer_arma's problems get fixed?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> (if you don't want php5 you have to say echo ">=dev-lang/php-5.0" >> /etc/portage/package.mask
08:29 <wrtlprnft> if you just use emerge with a specific version it will try to update when you say emerge -u world
08:37 <z-man-work> I think he wants php5, and has moved on to more drupal-specific problems
08:37 <z-man-work> the basic setup seemed to work
08:39 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
08:40 <wrtlprnft> there's quite a few use flags for php that you more or less need
08:40 <wrtlprnft> gdlib, libxml, preg and friends
09:32 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:22 <Luke-Jr> apache2 ;)
10:23 <guru3> wow i found some notes in pen
10:23 <guru3> that's rare
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12:11 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: !!!ping
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12:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping!
12:38 <Luke-Jr> armagetron/armagetron/b_0_2_5_end ?
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15:30 <wrtlprnft> > If you don't have an own webserver to host your map or you want to make your map "official", whatever that means, submit it to our resource repository here:
15:30 <wrtlprnft> quote from the wiki :D
15:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:32 <wrtlprnft> hi there
15:32  * Lucifer_arma politely greets wrtlprnft 
15:32 <n54> hi all :)
15:32 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: you know about /etc/portage/package.use?
15:32 <wrtlprnft> kinda important if you want a useable PHP installation
15:33 <Lucifer_arma> no I don't, and my php installation is working nicely now
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> except it's php5, and I don't know how much of a problem that'll be by itself, but Mandriva and Kubuntu have both gone to php5 as their default php
15:34 <wrtlprnft> it probably won't have xml support and stuff that some apps need, unless you specified it in you grlobal USE flags
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> probably not, but right now the problem is that mod_rewrite doesn't work
15:35 <wrtlprnft> uh... you using .htaccess or the apache config?
15:35 <wrtlprnft> if you want htaccess you need some ALLOW_OVERRIDE stuff
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> .htaccess
15:36 <wrtlprnft> yeah... you need to change your config for it to work
15:37 <spidey> wrtl
15:37 <wrtlprnft> does it process the .htaccess at all?
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> lemme guess, I need to at -D ALLOW_OVERRIDE to /etc/somethingorother
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not processing the .htaccess at all
15:38 <wrtlprnft> <Directory /whereeveryourwebrootis>
15:38 <wrtlprnft>         AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit Indexes
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> I did that, only I put "AllowOverride All"
15:38 <wrtlprnft> AccessFileName .htaccess
15:38 <wrtlprnft> </Directory
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> didn't put the accessfilename
15:38 <wrtlprnft> better do so
15:39 <wrtlprnft> dunno if all is an option
15:39 <wrtlprnft> nvm, it is
15:41 <wrtlprnft> just tested, mine accepts .htaccess just fine
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, i have to run down to the school
15:41 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab
15:42 <wrtlprnft> have fun
15:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, wow, our anonymous CVS is down once again
15:53 <spidey> wrtl,aw match isn't today is it?
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16:33 <wrtlprnft> spidey: i told you it was cancelled...
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #notes spider
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #notes
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #list
16:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot: hello?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> #echo asdf
16:33 <wrtlprnft> @echo test
16:33 <wrtlprnft> armabot: echo hi
16:34 <wrtlprnft> useless thing...
16:36 <n54> reidentify ;)
16:36 <guru3> good night
16:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, shouldn't it accept commands without me identifying?
16:36 <wrtlprnft> night guru3 
16:37 <n54> good night guru3 :)
16:37 <n54> sorry wrtlprnft, seems it is dead so it wont matter either way
16:37 <wrtlprnft> #f
16:37 <n54> but yes
16:37  * wrtlprnft pokes armabot 
16:37  * wrtlprnft pokes Lucifer_arma 
16:38 <n54> he's probably back at installing/cleaning up gentoo
16:38 <wrtlprnft> wiki is still up
16:39 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/afsdknla
16:39 <wrtlprnft> and that's a mandriva error page
16:39 <n54> ok
16:40 <wrtlprnft> and he said he was gonna be in school anyhow
16:40 <n54> ah yeah true
16:40 <n54> I guess armabot is simply awol then ;D
16:40 <wrtlprnft> doesn't like us
16:40 <n54> ;_;
16:41 <n54> nah that can't be true, I bet she's over in the supybot channels flirting :D
16:41 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:41 <n54> :)
16:42 <wrtlprnft> d'oh. guess what kind of bot is in #supybot
16:43 <n54> supybots?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> one of them
16:43 <wrtlprnft> and guess its name
16:43 <n54> armabot?
16:43 <wrtlprnft> no
16:43 <n54> hmm no idea
16:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
16:44 <n54> homer?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> supybot has a unix plugin capable of fortune
16:44 <wrtlprnft> i's name is... SUPYBOT!
16:44 <n54> fortunebot? oracle?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> what a surprise
16:44 <wrtlprnft> *its
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17:17 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:35 <wrtlprnft> wb Self_Destructo 
17:35 <wrtlprnft> you wanted to talk?
17:35 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:42 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: i dunno
17:42 <Self_Destructo> grr
17:42 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i guess about the rotator code
17:44 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:44 <ghableska> hello
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17:44 <n54> hi & cya all :)
17:44 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:44 <ghableska> oops
17:44 <n54> (00:46:46) n54: hi & cya all :)
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17:52 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: yes, you said so yesterday
--- Log closed Wed May 17 18:09:14 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 18:09:31 2006
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--- Log closed Wed May 17 18:19:50 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 18:24:45 2006
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18:25 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: are you there yet?
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18:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, i don't know
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> no, good :)
18:26 <wrtlprnft> no, armabot doesn't work
18:26 <wrtlprnft> #echo hi
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18:26 <Lucifer_arma> she doesn't?  Hmmm.......
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> #whoami
18:27 <wrtlprnft> she lol
18:27 <Self_Destructo> lol
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
18:30 <wrtlprnft> what?
18:30 <wrtlprnft> go away wrtlprnft_ 
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
18:30 <wrtlprnft> ...
18:30 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:34 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok, so give me an example of how to pull out the data from the xml file
18:34 <wrtlprnft> ok
18:35 <wrtlprnft> you start with something like
18:35 <wrtlprnft>     node cur = GetFileContents();
18:35 <wrtlprnft> that's a DOM node, much like the stuff in JavaScript
18:36 <wrtlprnft> it will point to the first child node of the <Resource>
18:36 <wrtlprnft> you have two basic operations on nodes:
18:36 <wrtlprnft> you can increment them, moving to the next element on the same nesting level:
18:36 <wrtlprnft> ++cur;
18:37 <wrtlprnft> or you can go down a level and get the first child node:
18:37 <wrtlprnft> node child = cur.GetFirstChild();
18:37 <wrtlprnft> where the following is the most useful:
18:37 <wrtlprnft>     for(cur = cur.GetFirstChild(); cur; ++cur) {
18:38 <wrtlprnft> that will iterate through all childs.
18:38 <wrtlprnft> now i guess you want to get the contents, right?
18:38 <Self_Destructo> yes
18:38 <wrtlprnft> first of all, cur.GetName() returns the type of the node
18:39 <Self_Destructo> er
18:39 <wrtlprnft> so you could say if(cur.GetName() == "Possibility") { ... }
18:39 <Self_Destructo> do all these funtion names exsist already?
18:39 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:39 <wrtlprnft> yeah, they do. node is a class ;)
18:39 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:39 <Self_Destructo> i was wondering what it was
18:40 <wrtlprnft> then, to get properties you say cur.GetProp("name");
18:40 <wrtlprnft> that gets you the attribute "name"
18:40 <wrtlprnft> GetProp has a few friends:
18:40 <wrtlprnft> you can say cur.GetPropBool("propname") to get a bool value
18:41 <wrtlprnft> that function will deal with things like 0 vs 1, yes vs no, true vs false, and on vs off
18:41 <Self_Destructo> k
18:41 <wrtlprnft> a last one is the following: int i; cur.GetProp("name", i);
18:42 <wrtlprnft> that will get the property, attempt to convert it to an integer, and store it in i
18:42 <Self_Destructo> k
18:42 <wrtlprnft> the same works with things like float, double, char, even tCoord
18:42 <Self_Destructo> where do I fand a list of the available funtions?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> tCoord?
18:42 <wrtlprnft> coordinate
18:43 <Self_Destructo> ah
18:43 <wrtlprnft> basically just something that stures two floats and gives you convinient functions
18:43 <wrtlprnft> so you can add them and stuff like that
18:43 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:43 <wrtlprnft> and good question, where is the darn doxy documentation when i need it
18:44 <wrtlprnft> d'oh, it doesn't exist
18:44 <wrtlprnft> sec, I'll write it
18:44 <Self_Destructo> k
18:45 <Self_Destructo> i g2g in about 5 mintues
18:45 <Self_Destructo> then I'll be back in a couple of hours
18:45 <wrtlprnft> well, I'll post the link once i have it
18:45 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:47 <Self_Destructo> hm
18:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:47 <Self_Destructo> a list of the funtions to parse the XML file, and a list of output funtions, like new matches, rounds, ect...
18:48 <wrtlprnft> the new matches and rounds is done for you.
18:48 <wrtlprnft> there's two functions in gRotation that get called
18:50 <Self_Destructo> static void HandleNewRound();
18:50 <Self_Destructo> static void HandleNewMatch();
18:50 <Self_Destructo> ?
18:50 <Self_Destructo> i'm guessing
18:50 <wrtlprnft> yeah
18:50 <wrtlprnft> those will sent events to the tree of tags
18:51 <Self_Destructo> what does ~gRotation(); mean? specifically the ~
18:51 <wrtlprnft> it's the destructor
18:52 <wrtlprnft> that means, if an object of that class gets deleted it will get called
18:52 <wrtlprnft> so if that class was to contain any pointers and stuff it could delete them before they get lost
18:52 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:53 <Self_Destructo> pointers is my next thing to study, so evidently I'm missing alot till I get them learned
18:54 <wrtlprnft> uh
18:54 <wrtlprnft> pointers are C stuff
18:54 <Self_Destructo> If you're planning to tackle C++, you're not done yet! First you have to become familiar with multiple levels of pointer indirection, pointer arithmetic, making objects read-only via const, generic pointers (void*), and the relationship pointers have with arrays and functions.
18:54 <Self_Destructo> I'm afraid not
18:55 <Self_Destructo> anyways, i g2g
18:55 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|bbl
18:56 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:01  * z-man yawns, finally finished with work, crawling into his bed
19:01 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-home
19:22 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508733C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:26 <wrtlprnft> SD|bbl: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy/classtXmlParserNamespace_1_1tXmlParser_1_1node.html
19:31 <wrtlprnft> does someone have more experience with doxygen here?
19:31 <wrtlprnft> it just ignores some of my documentation :(
19:32 <wrtlprnft> I don
19:34 <wrtlprnft> 't see why it refuses to show my documentation for functions without parameters
20:39 -!- SD|bbl is now known as Self_Destructo
20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtl,I'm back now
20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
20:44 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: 
20:44 <wrtlprnft> got my link?
--- Log closed Wed May 17 20:46:12 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 20:50:12 2006
20:50 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
20:50 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
20:50 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> grrrrrr
20:50 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
20:50 <Self_Destructo> spidey: you there?
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> did i miss anything?
20:50 <Self_Destructo> hey,
20:50 <wrtlprnft_> last thing i got: 20:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft:
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:37 � ( Self_Destructo ) wrtl,I'm back now
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:37 � ( Self_Destructo ) wrtlprnft:
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:48 � ( Self_Destructo ) #wake wrtlprnft
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 20:48 � ( Self_Destructo ) #tell wrtlprnft Wake Up! Or I'll Give Up!
20:50 <Self_Destructo> 2
20:50 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:50 <Self_Destructo> ok
20:50 <Self_Destructo> question
20:51 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
20:51 <Self_Destructo> how am I supposed to test this thing as I build it?
20:51 <wrtlprnft> well, first you get the DTD...
20:52 <wrtlprnft> then it *should* already have basic parsing, it just requires you to do the actual objects for settings and the rotation
20:52 <Self_Destructo> k, uhuh, /me is having trouble with getting it warning free
20:52 <wrtlprnft> warning free?
20:52 <wrtlprnft> you mean compile- time warnings
20:52 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:52 <Self_Destructo> no, talking about the DTD with the XML file
20:53 <wrtlprnft> what kind of warnings?
20:53 <Self_Destructo> hrm, I'll have to run it through again
20:54 <Self_Destructo> blah, I'm getting flat out errors right now
20:55 <wrtlprnft> well, can i see them and the files they come from?
20:55 <Self_Destructo> arg!
20:55 <Self_Destructo> it's been a while since I messed with it, so It's scattered out right now
20:56 <wrtlprnft> :P
20:56 <Self_Destructo> umm, I guess I turned around and started with scratch on the XML file, and was building the two together at the same time
20:56 <Self_Destructo> and I didn't get far
20:56 <Self_Destructo> because I ran out of time, IIRC
20:56 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/test-0.0.2.aarotate.xml
20:57 <wrtlprnft> why rebuild it?
20:57 <wrtlprnft> and omit that mode stuff for now, that can come later
20:57 <Self_Destructo> er... ok
20:57 <wrtlprnft> it's too complicated for now, keep it in your mind, but don't implement it
20:58 <Self_Destructo> ok, that helps a bunch
20:58 <wrtlprnft> although you might get away with just implementing it as a special <Rotate> tag
20:58 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/MapRotationData.xml
20:58 <Self_Destructo> that's the final xml file I currently have
20:58 <Self_Destructo> not final final, but final for now
20:59 <Self_Destructo> unless I need to do something with it
20:59 <wrtlprnft> hmm...
20:59 <wrtlprnft> for now I'd say include the <Mode> in the DTD and stuff, but when parsing just take the first <Mode> tag and parse just its contents, omit the rest
21:00 <Luke-Jr> z-man here yet?
21:00 <wrtlprnft> z-man is away again
21:00 <wrtlprnft> #seen z-man
21:00 <wrtlprnft> armabot: armabot armabot 
21:00 <wrtlprnft> grr
21:00 <Luke-Jr> did he say anything about b_0_2_5_end ?
21:00 <wrtlprnft> not that i know of
21:01 <wrtlprnft> lynx -dump http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b0_2_5_end
21:01 <wrtlprnft> that's what i'd suggest
21:02 <wrtlprnft> and, no wonder, just one result from you (yet)
21:02 <wrtlprnft> now that we're talking about it there'll be more in 2 minutes
21:03 <Luke-Jr> how about grep b.*0_2_5.*end FreeNode2-#armagetron.log
21:04 <wrtlprnft> it depends on where your logs are
21:04 <wrtlprnft> that lynx command gives you mine
21:05 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: man that is logged as we speak... how'd you do that?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> better would be curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:05 <wrtlprnft> better in what sense?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> doesn't load a whole browser
21:05 <wrtlprnft> would it give you different results?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> and has results
21:06 <wrtlprnft> it has results, yes, now, since it only updates every 5 minutes
21:07 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: it's just a cronjob that uploads my log every 5 minutes
21:07 <Luke-Jr> curl http://.../something.tbz2 | tar xjvp
21:07 <Luke-Jr> :)
21:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, great
21:08 <wrtlprnft> that curl command gives me a status line, a result, another status line, another result, etc
21:08 <wrtlprnft> what a mess
21:09  * wrtlprnft is too lazy to type 2>/dev/null or figure out the right options for curl
21:09 <Luke-Jr> result?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 2 $ curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:09 <wrtlprnft>   % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
21:09 <wrtlprnft>                                  Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
21:09 <wrtlprnft>  92  691k   92  638k    0     0  56625      0  0:00:12  0:00:11  0:00:01 5951412:38 <Luke-Jr> armagetron/armagetron/b_0_2_5_end ?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 100  691k  100  691k    0     0  56817      0  0:00:12  0:00:12 --:--:-- 59480
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 21:00 <Luke-Jr> did he say anything about b_0_2_5_end ?
21:09 <wrtlprnft> 21:05 <Luke-Jr> better would be curl http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt | grep b_0_2_5_end
21:09 <Luke-Jr> o
21:09 <wrtlprnft> see how there's status lines in between?
21:09 <Luke-Jr> -s
21:10 <wrtlprnft> -s for --STFU?
21:10 <Luke-Jr> something like that
21:10 <Luke-Jr> --silent, IIRC
21:10 <wrtlprnft> whatever :D
21:10 <Luke-Jr> it's nice w/ tar ;p
21:10 <wrtlprnft> yeah, well, might be. I don't know what lynx would do with a tar
21:11 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok... now to continue on on how I test it...
21:11 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AEA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <Self_Destructo> after I get the DTD done...
21:11 <Self_Destructo> ?
21:11 <Luke-Jr> Self_Destructo: start the program, and press the Turbo button on your PC
21:11 <Luke-Jr> =p
21:12 <Self_Destructo> #ignore Luke-Jr
21:12 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: put the DTD and the XML file into the right spot ;)
21:12 <Self_Destructo> #define Luke-Jr as irritating
21:13 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok
21:13 <Luke-Jr> s/as//
21:13 <Self_Destructo> it looks like currently it will printout what it's doing
21:13 <Self_Destructo> s/as//?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> printout what?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> it has a few debug messages, yes
21:13 <Self_Destructo> con << ''Received a new round event and ready to handle it!\n'';
21:13 <Luke-Jr> eww, C++
21:14 <wrtlprnft> yep, exactly
21:14 <Luke-Jr> printf("Received a new round event and ready to handle it!\n");
21:14 <Luke-Jr> BTW, that '' shouldn't work
21:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's evil
21:14 <wrtlprnft> printf has to search that string for % signs every time it gets called
21:15 <wrtlprnft> con << doesn't
21:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: looks like Self_Destructo's client likes replacing " by ''
21:15 <wrtlprnft> sucks, if you ask me
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:20:04 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:24:21 2006
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21:24 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
21:24 <wrtlprnft_> grr
21:25 <wrtlprnft_> hello? am i here?
21:26 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:26 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:27 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:27:29 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:27:44 2006
21:27 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:27 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
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21:27 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:27:59 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:28:36 2006
21:28 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:28 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
21:28 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 8 secs
21:28 <wrtlprnft> so, am i back now, finally?
21:28 <wrtlprnft> and did i miss anything important?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: that's evil
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:14 <wrtlprnft> printf has to search that string for % signs every time it gets called
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> con << doesn't
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: looks like Self_Destructo's client likes replacing " by ''
21:29 <wrtlprnft> 21:15 <wrtlprnft> sucks, if you ask me
21:30 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:30  * wrtlprnft wants to kcik his provider, hard
--- Log closed Wed May 17 21:34:50 2006
--- Log opened Wed May 17 21:35:32 2006
21:35 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
21:35 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
21:35 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:35 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
21:35 <wrtlprnft_> ...
21:36 <wrtlprnft_> so, err, i didn't get anything after 21:30 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:38 <Self_Destructo> there was nothing but you leaving and coming back in there for about 6 or 7 times
21:39 <wrtlprnft_> wow
21:39 <wrtlprnft_> sorry for that
21:39 <Self_Destructo> didn't bother me any
21:40 <wrtlprnft_> their excuse is that they're "installing additional digital phone lines"
21:41 <Self_Destructo> wrtl
21:41 <wrtlprnft_> i wonder why they would start that on sunday
21:41 <wrtlprnft_> big lie, if you ask me
21:41 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/rotator-0.0.1.txt
21:41 <Self_Destructo> that's the current DTD
21:41 <Self_Destructo> that I am still working on
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> we should find a better way for the type thingy...
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> maybe another DTD and an external entity?
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> <!ATTLIST UseResource type (aamap | aacockpit) "aamap" 
21:43 <wrtlprnft_> because we might add types, and they might have to be added in different places
21:43 <Self_Destructo> yeah
21:43 <Self_Destructo> that's a good idea
21:44 <Self_Destructo> i was kinda wondering what to do about that when I was building it
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> and don't let the type default to anything
21:44 <Self_Destructo> because resources will be added
21:44 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> uh
21:44 <wrtlprnft_> <!ATTLIST Message type (center | console | admin | cockpit) "console" #REQUIRED
21:45 <wrtlprnft_> what's the point in specifying a default and making it required anyways?
21:45 <Self_Destructo> accident
21:45 <wrtlprnft_> same with Rotate
21:46 <wrtlprnft_> but looks ok to me otherwise :)
21:46 <Self_Destructo> #REQUIRED is more important than a defualt
21:46 <Self_Destructo> so I got rid of the defualt
21:46 <wrtlprnft_> i'd say let Message::type default to "console" and leave Rotate::* as required
21:47 <wrtlprnft_> i guess I'm missing up the syntax here, :: is c++ ;)
21:47 <wrtlprnft_> *mixing
21:48 <Self_Destructo> lol, i saw
21:50 <Self_Destructo> ok, well, I g2g for tonight
21:50 <Self_Destructo> curfew comes on in a few
21:50 <wrtlprnft_> night
21:51 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
--- Log closed Wed May 17 22:14:20 2006
--- Log opened Thu May 18 01:18:07 2006
01:18 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
01:18 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
01:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
01:20 <z-man-home> hmm, I don't see a pyqt package
01:20 <z-man-home> qtjava and qtruby
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, is portage supposed to be in /usr ?
01:21 <z-man-home> qt-4.1.2 is there, though, so you probably can install pyqt4 after that
01:21 <z-man-home>  /usr/portage is the package database
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, pyqt wants 4.1.0, and 4.1.2 is newest
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> kubuntu only offers 4.0.0
01:22 <mkzelda> Lucifer_arma: Now that I've finally gotten drupal running smoothly, and understand most of it, I thank you so much for opening my eyes to it.
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> see, I was going to work on acme, and I thought I'd go check on pyqt4's progress.  :)
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: oh yeah?  You're welcome.  :)
01:22 <z-man-home> yes, I see
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: can I see it?  :)
01:23 <mkzelda> www.mkzelda.com
01:23  * n54 takes a peek too :)
01:23 <mkzelda> Obviously not done, but its coming along
01:24 <mkzelda> and check my gallery link, see if it logs you in as me or not
01:24 <mkzelda> cause it does that for me... and theres a bunch of images that are definatly private showing up there...
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, didn't log me in as you
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
01:25 <mkzelda> that gallery module is nifty
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> give me a name of an image and I'll tell you if I can see it (make it not too private)
01:25 <n54> lots of puppies :)
01:25 <mkzelda> how many albums do you see?
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> 7
01:25 <mkzelda> ok
01:25 <mkzelda> there are 12
01:26 <mkzelda> phew
01:26 <mkzelda> i enabled the random image block
01:26 <mkzelda> and all this pr0n came up :D
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's neat how drupal uses the same interface for administration that it uses for the front-end, but it can be disorienting at times
01:26 <guru3> good morning
01:26 <n54> goor morning guru3 and everybody :)
01:26 <z-man-home> morning
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> so where's portage supposed to be?
01:26 <Lucifer_arma>  /usr or / ?
01:27 <z-man-home>  /usr/portage
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  I untarred it in / :)
01:27 <guru3> tar jxvf portage-snapshot.tar.bz2 -C /usr/portage/
01:27 <guru3> iirc
01:27 <z-man-home> but of course, the "official" way to search it is "emerge -s"
01:27 <z-man-home> you untarred it?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> stage3 install....
01:27 <z-man-home> ah
01:28 <mkzelda> didnt they remove stage1 from the manual
01:28 <guru3> yeah
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> figured I was waiting for qt4 to compile anyway and I was a little pissed about that, I might as well do something productive
01:28 <z-man-home> well, your emerges were working, right? So it must be in the right place.
01:28 <guru3> what's up with that :/
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> this is on my laptop.  The server's fine, except I have to figure out why mod_rewrite isn't working
01:28 <mkzelda> yea, i got slammed by the devs/mods on the forums for saying something negative about that
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  about mod_rewrite being broke by default?
01:29 <mkzelda> no, about stage1 removal
01:29  * Lucifer_arma mumbles about a web server isn't a web server without mod_rewrite
01:29 <guru3> to me not having stage one sorta defeats the purpose
01:29 <guru3> so naturally i do stage1 anyway
01:30 <mkzelda> i hate forums, i rarely use them, and when i do, i tend to be the catalyst for the biggest flame war ever
01:30 <mkzelda> and then my question never gets answered
01:30 <guru3> lol
01:31 <mkzelda> it blows my mind b/c im a pretty laidback and chill kind of guy
01:32 <mkzelda> and i can have convos in any other setting/medium no problem
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> FUCK YOU AND ALL STAGES!!?!!!111!!1ONE!!ONEone
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> er
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> did that come out here?  I thought I only thunk it...
01:32 <n54> *shakes soda can violently and throws to Lucifer* here, have a relaxing drink :)
01:33 <mkzelda> i just cleaned up the most massive nasty diarrhea pile
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> now, here's two things that don't make sense to me
01:33 <mkzelda> im pretty sure all of you wanted to know that about me
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> 1) Konsole doesn't automatically go into the system tray !?
01:33 <mkzelda> my puppies got spayed today, very sick :(
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> 2) Konsole lets me do zmodem upload
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> ack
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> I saw something about that on your website.  :)
01:34  * n54 read that as "sprayed" :C
01:34 <mkzelda> nah, that wasnt on the site
01:34 <mkzelda> that was just a title similar
01:34 <mkzelda> most kapps dont default to systray b/c not all users of kapps use k
01:35 <mkzelda> i did take pics of the deeeerah
01:35 <mkzelda> it was amazingly sick
01:35 <mkzelda> website worthy
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> where the hell is this mirrorselect tool supposed to be?
01:36 <mkzelda> its supposed to help select a mirror
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> the section says "optional", so I'm going to option my way past it
01:36 <mkzelda> it pings a shitload of servers
01:36 <mkzelda> and finds those w/ the lowest ping
01:36 <mkzelda> and then u use those for rsync/distfiles
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> lowest ping eh?  Nice to know I'll be able to core dump people there, but how many players can play?
01:36 <mkzelda> u can do the same for ntp selection
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> why don't they flood each server and pick the one that takes the most pings without overloading?
01:37 <mkzelda> its more than just lowest ping i believe
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> seems like that'd pick the best mirror :)
01:37 <mkzelda> i just havent looked closer to see
01:37 <mkzelda> seems to do a good job
01:37 <mkzelda> i tend to agree w/ its selections
01:37 <mkzelda> ima tell u now tho...
01:37 <mkzelda> mirror.datapipe.net works quite well for me
01:37 <mkzelda> for distfiles mirror
01:37 <mkzelda> .net may not be right
01:38 <mkzelda> its in the mirror list
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> I think you gave me that one last time, and I stuck it in there
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> this time I'm optioning my way past it, I'll dig it out later from my other one :)
01:38 <mkzelda> it maxes my connection 95% of the time
01:40 <mkzelda> i wish there was a way to purge the drupal access log of particular events
01:40 <mkzelda> like i fixed certain SQL errors I'd like to never look at again
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> what will happen first?  Will I finish installing gentoo, or will qt4 finish building?  Mind you, I don't need to build qt4 to get gentoo working and useable...
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> access log gets automatically flushed
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> you did set up your cronjobs, right?
01:41 <mkzelda> no, couldnt select an appropriate module
01:41 <mkzelda> there were like 10 cron modules
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> the cronjob is supposed to clear out entries older than a certain configurable window
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> oh, nononono.  Don't use one of their cron modules.
01:41 <mkzelda> yea, but which module are u using
01:41 <mkzelda> and which one are you using to put your taxonomy in a block
01:42 <guru3> bbl
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> drupal ships with the one you should use, the rest are for situations where you're unable to use cron
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> is drupal on your server, or some cheap web hosting service, or what?
01:42 <mkzelda> cheap web hosting service
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, may not matter.  Did you install 4.7?
01:43 <mkzelda> Cron has not run. It appears cron jobs have not been setup on your system. Please check the help pages for configuring cron jobs.
01:43 <mkzelda> yes
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> basically the operation is a wget call in a crontab that you control, and wget requests the page that does the work
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> the drupal 4.7 docs tell you what to do there, I'll dig up a link in a sec
01:43 <mkzelda> yea i got it
01:43 <mkzelda> http://drupal.org/cron
01:44 <mkzelda>      Sat Mar 18 06:24:06 2006 >>> x11-libs/qt-4.1.1
01:44 <mkzelda>        merge time: 43 minutes and 39 seconds.
01:44 <mkzelda>      Mon Mar 20 13:43:35 2006 >>> x11-libs/qt-3.3.6
01:44 <mkzelda>        merge time: 15 minutes and 56 seconds.
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> and what did you mean here?  <mkzelda> and which one are you using to put your taxonomy in a block
01:44 -!- spidey [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:45 <mkzelda> well, i guess its your navigation panel
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> on my davefancella.com site?
01:45 <mkzelda> how do you get your categories to show up as links
01:45 <mkzelda> yes
01:45 <mkzelda> 'getting around'
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  That's just a menu
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> I put all those entries in there the Hard Way
01:46 <mkzelda> 'Primary links' took me the longest to figure out
01:46 <mkzelda> i dont really like it
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> that's not the actual structure of my taxonomy.  :)  My taxonomy is better ordered than that, it's just not ordered well for casual surfers
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't like either primary or secondary links, did I use them?  heh
01:47 <mkzelda> i ended up leaving it thinking i'd like it, right now i use it to link my feedback/todo list
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's supposed to be a search box there, but it's screwed up
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> and the other is the paypal link.
01:47 <guru3> back
01:47 <mkzelda> I expected to be able to add some urls like my gallery and forum
01:47 <mkzelda> in a section called links
01:47 <mkzelda> heh
01:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think they threw those in there in a half-assed fashion and would rather use a block now
01:47 <mkzelda> or primary links i guess
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'd prefer those to be block positions supported by all template engines
01:48 <mkzelda> the templates are teh suck
01:48 <mkzelda> they all look the same
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, they're stock templates, what did you expect?  :)
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> there are some beautiful templates out there, but I prefer to grow my own anyway
01:48 <mkzelda> not hte stock, the list on the webpage
01:49 <mkzelda> they alll look the same too
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  look at the list you get when you google drupal templates :)
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> what I'd really like right now is a drupalized MonoBook template, from wikipedia.
01:49 <mkzelda> yea, i planned on it, i just wanted something else other than default
01:49 <mkzelda> but everything else sucked
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> I used their pushbutton template until I was ready to port my old one over.
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01:50 <Lucifer_arma> it was the top turd on the pile.  :)
01:50 <mkzelda> i like goofy but it doesnt work
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'd like a block that let me expose my taxonomy, though.
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> and let me disable pieces, and reorder them.  Maintaining that menu is a pain, so I don't do it, and it keeps sucking, and every day it sucks a little more from inaction.
01:52 <mkzelda> there are modules that do it
01:52 <mkzelda> but the few that i tried gave me sql errors
01:52 <Lucifer_arma> I saw modules tht do it in the content pane, but not that did it in blocks
01:53 <mkzelda> i went through that entire list and downloaded anything that sounded interesting
01:53 <mkzelda> about 75% worked
01:53 <mkzelda> about 50% of those i still liked
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, 4.7 picked up database independence, there are api calls instead that you're supposed to use.  Sure you were using modules for the right version?
01:53 <mkzelda> yes
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  That's actually an amazing hit rate for such a list.  :)
01:53 <mkzelda> but they didnt fully test them i think
01:53 <mkzelda> 75% of what i tried worked
01:53 <mkzelda> i got about 20-25 modules
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> my hit rate for Mambo components was less than 30% worked, and 10% I liked
01:54 <mkzelda> im using about 5-10 of them now
01:54 <guru3> what's the difference between an ion and a free radical?
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> you interested in any drupal hacking?
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> ion has an electrical charge
01:54 <mkzelda> yes
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> dont' know what free radical means, unless you just mean "element"
01:55 <mkzelda> Cron is running. The last cron job ran 12 sec ago. 
01:55 <mkzelda> all i did was visit the url once, will it continue on its own
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> ion is like, ummm.  Hydrogen loses 1 electron to become Hydride
01:55 <guru3> Cl2 + UV light -> 2Cl radicals
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> no, you have to put it in a cronjob, like on your own machine
01:55 <mkzelda> ok
01:55 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't have a server to run it on, I can put it on mine for you.
01:56 <mkzelda> the 'cron is running' deceived me
01:56 <mkzelda> thx, it shouldnt be a prob tho
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: break down the equation and write, um, the ionized form?
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> how many electrons does one chloride have in Cl2?  I think it's more than how many it normally has, isn't it?
01:57 <Lucifer_arma> UV Light adds electrons (or subtracts, I forget)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> when the UV Light interacts with the Cl2, you wind up with two separate, complete Cl atoms
01:58 <guru3> chlorine is diatomic
01:58 <guru3> by itself Cl has 7 electrons
01:58 <guru3> Cl2 has 14
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> sure about that?
01:58  * Lucifer_arma pulls out his chemistry notebook
01:58 <guru3> well, it's in the 7 electron in my outer orbital period
02:00 <guru3> or group really
02:00 <guru3> gah chemistry exam today :/
02:00 <Lucifer_arma> ?  I had a lewis structure for Cl2 drawn at one point
02:01 <guru3> yeah it's
02:01 <guru3>  .. ..
02:01 <guru3> :Cl:Cl:
02:01 <guru3>  .. ..
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> aha, there we go
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> Chlorine gains 1 electron to become Chloride
02:02 <mkzelda> webhost allowed cron no probs
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> Umm, hm.  Cl2, that's a covalent bond, right?
02:02 <guru3> but the why's that Cl. and not Cl-
02:02 <guru3> yes
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> what property of UV light causes the Cl2 to break up?
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> I would have thought it either pushed an electron onto the Chlorine atoms or it would push one off, causing the split
02:03 <Lucifer_arma> if it added electrons, that would leave you with 2 Chlorides, not 2 Chlorines
02:04  * Lucifer_arma reminds guru3 that he dropped his chem class and will retake it in the fall
02:04 <guru3> heh
02:04 <guru3> odds are i won't be asked to explain it
02:04 <guru3> but simply tell if something is a radical or an ion
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> well that should be easy, then, right?
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> assuming radical = electrically neutral element, as in "exactly what's on the periodic table"
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> we just called those "atoms", so I don't have any idea if radical is a different configuration or not
02:05 <guru3> yes aparently radicals don't have an electric charge
02:05 <n54> let's not assume http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_%28chemistry%29
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> what did google say?  :)
02:06 <guru3> ok i get it now
02:06 <guru3> thanks
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> aha
02:06 <guru3>  ..
02:06 <guru3> :Cl:
02:06 <guru3>  '
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> so you left a symbol out of your chemical equation :)
02:06 <guru3> that has no overall charge
02:07 <guru3> but an unpaired electron => free radical
02:07 <n54> yup that's howe it seems to me t least
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> don't all the elements in group 7 have an unpaired electron?
02:07 <guru3> they're all diatomic
02:07 -!- spidey is now known as McSpiddles
02:07 <n54> and since they're diatomic that would be yes right?
02:08 <guru3> well you see
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> so 1 parallel spin?  :)
02:08 <guru3> since they're diatomic the always come in X2
02:08 <guru3> so they don't naturally occur as free radicals
02:08 <guru3> if they get split exactly (as by UV light)
02:08 <guru3> then they become radicals
02:08 <n54> yes well put
02:09  * n54 thinks guru3 will fly through the chem exams :)
02:09 <guru3> hah
02:09 <guru3> i'm starting to think i lost a chunk of my notes
02:10 <n54> probably all the stuff you thought "that's too easy to write down" :)
02:10 <n54> I mean the three of us blasted away at free radicals right?
02:10 <guru3> can anyone tell me about dG = dH -TdS
02:11 <n54> sorry I can't even read that :) what does it mean?
02:11 <guru3> that's the question
02:11 <guru3> it's a formula for checking the spontaneity of reactions
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> what's G H and T?  :)
02:11  * n54 goes looking for his uni chem book
02:12 <n54> I wonder more about G, T could be Tin
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's a mystery to me, probably from the latter half of the class?
02:12 <guru3> h is enthalpy i think
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> I suspect T is time
02:12 <guru3> t is temperature
02:12 <guru3> not sure what S is :/
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> are dG, dH, and dS derivatives?
02:13 <guru3> delta
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> and, um, is this a calc-based chem course?  ;)
02:13 <guru3> change
02:13 <guru3> no
02:13 <guru3> s is entropy
02:13 <n54> hmm is this about bond energy and enthalpy?
02:14 <guru3> sort of
02:15 <n54> delta H = sigma D (bonds broken) - sigma D (bonds formed)  (sigma == sum sign)
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> I just found that equation
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> does this have anything to do with q=mc(delta)t?
02:16 <n54> but guru3 wrote: dG = dH -TdS *n54 doesn't know*
02:16 <guru3> ok
02:16 <guru3> dG = Gibbs free energy change
02:16 <n54> ok
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> ah, that's new to me
02:17 <guru3> when it's negative a reaction is spontaneous
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm guessing dS is change in seconds
02:17 <n54> *tries to find that in the book'
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> dH looks like enthalpy of formation
02:17 <guru3> dH = the enthalpy change of the reaction
02:17 <guru3> T = the temperature in kelvin
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> right, which is a constant for any compound
02:17 <guru3> dS = the entropy change of the equation
02:17 <guru3> no T is not constant
02:17 <guru3> T is the T at which you hope the reaction occurs
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> dH, I was talking about
02:18 <guru3> oh
02:18 <guru3> that's the same for a given reaction yes
02:18  * n54 found it too
02:18 <n54> S is the entrophy
02:18 <n54> entropy*
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> so it looks like you're checking how much dH has been released at given times after the reaction begins
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> or something to that effect <insert precise chemistry language here>
02:19 <guru3> or something yeah
02:19 <guru3> onto rates of reaction
02:19 <n54> definition: G (free energy) = H (enthalpy) - TS (Kelvin temperature times entropy)
02:19 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:20 <guru3> heterogeneous catalysts crack me up
02:21 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy I had to look up enthalpy :)
02:23 <guru3> can anyone look up colision theory for me?
02:23 <n54> sure
02:23 <guru3> thnx
02:23 <guru3> nm
02:23 <guru3> found it in notes
02:23 <n54> ok, did you mean as in chemical kinetics?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> enthalpy = heat :)
02:24 <n54> Lucifer_arma: according to wikipedia: Enthalpy (symbolized H, also called heat content) is the sum of the internal energy of matter and the product of its volume and pressure
02:25 <n54> so yes heat, but heat in all "forms" 
02:25 <n54> if you get my meaning :)
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, knock off an electron and you get radiation, right?
02:25 <guru3> but you can't measure absolute enthalpy
02:26 <n54> yes
02:26 <guru3> beta radiation to be exact
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> teacher didn't tell us which kind.  :)  Man, I had a sucky teacher.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> now, I'll retake it, and then we'll know for sure if my teacher was sucky, or if I was sucky
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I got the email from my calc teacher.  I got an A!  
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> er, wait a minute, I already told you guys.
02:26 <n54> can you choose a different one?
02:27 <n54> yup you did :)
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's why I dropped it.  To take my chances with a different teacher.  :)
02:27 <n54> good :)
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> I had a C in the class, I could have passed it, it's not like I was in danger of failing
02:27 <guru3> lol
02:27 <mkzelda> awwww just realized the wishlist module is getting sql errors :(
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> awwwwwwwww
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> why do gentoo people use nano?  WHAT'S WRONG WITH VI????!!!?
02:29 <n54> heh I miss notepad when on *nix -- I just wan't to be able to write UTF-8 pure tect - nothing more
02:29 <n54> so that's wrong with vi ;)
02:29 <n54> open - save -exit nothing more needed :)
02:29 <guru3> i use vi
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, don't use one of those weird languages that claims it uses a 26-letter alphabet but is lying, or you wouldn't need utf8 :)
02:29  * n54 has toyed with the idea of writing such an app in python
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> vi doesn't support unicode?
02:30  * Lucifer_arma notes that kwrite and kate handle it just fine
02:30 <n54> they both suck at i18n imo
02:30 <n54> but I'm only running kde at this knoppix box
02:31 <mkzelda> I use nano
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> kate: tools->encoding->pick one
02:31 <n54> *tries it for the umpteenth time, perhaps lucifer saying it will make it come true*
02:32 <n54> can well be a fubar of knoppix though
02:32 <mkzelda> i starting using pico in '97 so i never used anything else cause i was already comfortable
02:32 <mkzelda> although i have tried
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not promising what it will look like, of course.  :)  I never change that stuff because utf8 and ascii are the same for my purposes.
02:33 <n54> dang nabbit! *sends lucifer a chicken in the mail*
02:33 <n54> ....must have been fixed on this knoppix version
02:33  * Lucifer_arma wonders if receiving a chicken in the mail should be taken as a compliment or an insult :)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> (not that it matters, food is food, after all)
02:33 <n54> hehe :D compliment
02:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better pay attention to configuring my kernel, this will be pretty important.
02:34 <n54> and a slight reference toblack computer magic
02:35 <McSpiddles> wrtl?
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> why does vim take so long to build?
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.vim.org/htmldoc/mbyte.html  <--- vim will do it too
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> :set encoding=utf-8
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> mkzelda: I noticed that my new gentoo server booted a whole lot faster than it's mandriva incarnation
02:40 <n54> I'm more familiar with emacs than win although I have both on my windows box as well, so I've always grudgingly used emacs in the past on knoppix (man is that beast ugly or what?)
02:40 <n54> wim*
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> *vim
02:40 <n54> vim* aaaargh!
02:41 <guru3> 2/5th thru my chem binder
02:41 <n54> :D
02:41 <guru3> time for a break
02:41 <n54> :)
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> I only use vi because it works just like vue from the old alpha-micro system in my high school
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> wow, I just realized that, too.
02:41 <guru3> i use vi
02:42 <guru3> cause i'm not sure why
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Now I realize why I originally made an alias vue for vi back when I first started with Mandrake.
02:42 <guru3> i just wound up using it
02:42 <n54> vi is good to know though since it's the standard really
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I used it back on the UNICOS system for the NM supercomputing challenge, too.  It was a Cray XMPE I think
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> 2 processors
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> because.... ed sucks, and vi acted just like vue
02:44  * n54 can't never remember if what I've used on obsd is called mc or mg or m*something*
02:44 <guru3> mama mia!
02:44 <n54> you_mom isn't here ;)
02:44 <guru3> haha
02:44 <n54> your*
02:44 <n54> :D
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> mama mia let me go!
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:45 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as You_mama
02:45 <n54> ah queen song
02:45 <You_mama> if I use this nickname, will people think I'm Your_mom?
02:45 <guru3> lol
02:45 -!- You_mama is now known as Lucifer_arma
02:45 <n54> somewhat liekly
02:45 <n54> likely*
02:45 <Lucifer_arma> he's probably been away long enough again for a lot of people to forget about him
02:45 -!- guru3 is now known as your_mothers
02:45 <n54> holiday or something like that?
02:46  * your_mothers so fat texas looks small
02:46 -!- your_mothers is now known as guru3
02:46 <n54> hehe
02:46  * n54 wonders where mom is
02:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha, should I compile in Amiga FFS support?  :)
02:57 <n54> sure, but what would you do with it? :)
02:58 <n54> armabot is still sleeping?
03:06 <n54> ...
03:06 <guru3> lol
03:06 <n54> ?
03:07 <guru3> nm
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> apparently armabot's broke
03:14 <guru3> no!
03:14 <guru3> :o
03:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, if I hd Amiga FFS support, I could use the floppy drive this laptop doesn't have to write the disk images I do have to disk for the amiga I don't have
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> I hope I configured this kernel correctly, it's been a few years since I configured a kernel
03:18 <guru3> you;; soon know
03:19 <guru3> you;;
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, probably not terribly soon
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> qt4 finished building
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> hwich means I'll finish the gentoo isntall a different day
03:30 <guru3> exam time
03:30 <guru3> bbl
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> I still have 3 letters to write tonight that I've been slacking on, one of which is needed to determine residency so my next class will be half the price
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> good luck
03:30 <guru3> thnx
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06:08 <spider> dood
06:08 <spider> i found my floor
06:15 -!- spider is now known as McSpiddles
06:19 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:41 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
06:44 -!- Nixda664 [n=51a86196@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
06:44 -!- Nixda664 [n=51a86196@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
07:22 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: z-man-work z-man-work z-man-work z-man-work 
07:24 <Luke-Jr> tag b_0_2_5_end . keep or delete?
07:26 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:34 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
07:43 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: what about asking on the forums?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma if you don't like nano (like me) edit /etc/rc.conf and change the EDITOR variable there
07:50 <wrtlprnft> nano sucks, alone because of the annoying nano -w (yes you can alias it and stuff, but that sucks)
07:52 <wrtlprnft> and i don't wanna permanently waste 5 lines for useleess stuff (2 help lines, 2 blank lines (!), and one status line)
08:13 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: it doesn't get more visible if you repeat it on one line :)
08:13 <z-man-work> is the tag really at the end of b_0_2_5? Then delete.
09:01 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BB6CB.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
09:29 <McSpiddles> wrtl
09:41 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
09:41 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
09:44 <Gnorty> wb all
10:20 <guru3> ouch :/
10:38 <guru3> garr
10:38 <guru3> where's lucifer when you want to try and set up a db cluster
10:41 <z-man-work> sleeping or working, I guess
10:42 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: there's three morons on your race server, kicking out everybody who joins. Thought you may want to know :) One of them is named "Ian", I forgot about the others. I was "ZMan" when they hit me.
12:34 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["brb"]
12:36 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
13:09 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:09 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
13:23 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
13:34 <n54> huh you beat the internet again! :o
13:36 <guru3> haha
13:36 <n54> hi guru3 :) how did it go today?
13:36 <guru3> the ib made a mistake on the chem exam
13:36 <guru3> and
13:36 <guru3> they forgot to allow us to have periodic tables
13:36 <guru3> on the multiple choice
13:36 <n54> :o
13:37 <guru3> so we were screwed for a lot of questions
13:37 <guru3> they say that they'll take that into account tho
13:37 <n54> yeah that basically means you'll pass, a small snafu (much smaller than what you experienced) was all that saved me from having to retake higher maths :D
13:37 <n54> only one question actually lol :)
13:38 <guru3> lol
13:38 <guru3> oops ><
13:38 <n54> hehe yeah not a proud moment for me
13:38 <guru3> :/
13:38 <guru3> i hopes i pass
13:38 <n54> you probably will
13:39 <n54> and ib is hard, I don't know of any other system at that level which is that hard (although there might be)
13:40 <z-man> n54: no, z-man-work never times out
13:40 <n54> aah ok :)
13:41 <guru3> hrhr
13:41 <guru3> it's hard
13:42 <guru3> environmental chemistry and biochemistry options tomorrow
13:42 <guru3> and guess what n54 
13:42 <guru3> there was a question
13:42 <guru3> like
13:42 <guru3> defining a free radical
13:42 <guru3> in the multiple choice
13:42 <n54> *guesses what* :)
13:42 <guru3> i was like
13:42 <n54> cool :D
13:42 <guru3> "pwnt"
13:42 <n54> oh?
13:42 <guru3> yeah
13:42 <guru3> cause we went over it
13:42 <guru3> i pwned the question
13:42 <n54> like you made it right?
13:42 <guru3> yes
13:42 <n54> good! :D
13:43 <n54> I guess we can say wikipedia to the rescue hehe :)
13:43 <guru3> hrhr
13:43 <guru3> sshhh
13:44 <n54> :)
13:44 <guru3> actually, i'm not supposed to be talking about the exam :/
13:44 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
13:44 <guru3> stupid ib
13:44 <n54> ah yeah but you know, it's more like "not memorize it all and give it away"
13:45 <guru3> nah
13:45 <guru3> :)
13:47 <n54> strangely my "Chemical Principles" by Steven S. Zumdahl does not index free radicals or radicals, I wonder why
13:48 <guru3> Oo
13:48 <guru3> fubar
13:49 <n54> it's a very good book, perhaps it uses more specific names or something such
13:50 <guru3> i don't think there's another name for it
13:51 <n54> you might be right as the wikipedia article didn't mention any iirc
13:53 <guru3> ><
13:54 <guru3> what's H2S called
13:56 <n54> dihydrogen sulfur? not sure
13:56 <guru3> that's the point :S
13:56 <guru3> those chlorine radicals in the ozone
13:56 <guru3> they suck
13:57 <guru3> O3 + Cl. -> O2 + OCl.
13:57 <n54> hydrogen sulfide is another way of naming it it seems
13:57 <guru3> OCl. + O3 + O -> 2O2 + Cl.
13:57 <n54> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide
13:57 <guru3> curses upon you chlorofloro carbons with your cool names!
13:57 <guru3> thnx n54 :)
13:57 <n54> mp :)
13:58 <guru3> mp :)
14:02 <Gnorty> IS LUCI HERE?
14:02 <Gnorty> oops. sorry for caps
14:02 <guru3> damnit
14:02 <guru3> i was just about to reply in caps
14:02 <guru3> no he's not
14:03 <Gnorty> heh
14:03 <wrtl_web_broken> z-man: I'll take care of it when i come home, thanks. If I use the ban command, will it still be there after a restart? That server has dedicated_idle set to 1...
14:03 <n54> :) & hi Gnorty
14:03 <Gnorty> hi n54 :)
14:03 <wrtl_web_broken> spidey: yes?
14:04 <Gnorty> wrtl - spidey wanted you hours ago - idiots on race server
14:08 <Gnorty> wrtl - if whatever client you are using isnt lagged by 3-4 hours, can you help me a little with the new HUD?
14:11  * Gnorty thinks wrtls client is lagged
14:11 <n54> yeah probably
14:12 <Gnorty> when I am asleep he will reply
14:12 -!- wrtl_web_broken2 [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:12 <wrtl_web_broken> yesterday i played there and some guy renamed himself to Admin (red color) and claimed the server would restart in 30 seconds... imagine his surprise when first the "real" admin said it would restart in 10 seconds and in ten seconds it restarted 
14:12 <wrtl_web_broken2> yesterday i played there and some guy renamed himself to Admin (red color) and claimed the server would restart in 30 seconds... imagine his surprise when first the "real" admin said it would restart in 10 seconds and in ten seconds it restarted 
14:12 <Gnorty> wrtl has the brokenest client
14:13 <guru3> wrtl_web_broken_record.
14:13 <Gnorty> is there a prize for that?
14:13 <n54> :)
14:14 <guru3> :s
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <Gnorty> cuz if there is, then I can break my client
14:14 <n54> huh I had never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC before now, they've got some books for dl as well
14:14 <n54> heh Gnorty :)
14:15 <wrtl_web_broken2> the client i use right now isn't lagged, but it doesn't show the replies...
14:16 <wrtl_web_broken2> I have to use the logs my computer at home produces to read anything, and those get updated all 5 minutes
14:16 <Gnorty> :O
14:16 <Gnorty> that is pretty broken...
14:16 <guru3> :/
14:16 <guru3> wrtl_web_broken2: what client is it?
14:16 <guru3> Gnorty: don't push it
14:16 <wrtl_web_broken2> so, yes, not the best time to talk. I'll be home in abut an hour 45 minutes
14:17 <Gnorty> -wrtl_web_broken- VERSION CGI:IRC 0.5.8 (2006/04/30) - http://cgiirc.sf.net/
14:17 <Gnorty> guru3 -??
14:18 <guru3> with repeating
14:18 <guru3> wrtl, would a java client be better?
14:18 <wrtl_web_broken2> and now i have to leave, sorry
14:18 <Gnorty> I did a while back for a joke, it's nmot like I make a hbit of it. but point taken I guess/
14:19 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/dihymon1.jpg
14:19 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/dihymon2.jpg
14:20 <guru3> that shit is dangerous! look out!
14:21 <n54> hehe
14:23 <guru3> i'm serious
14:23 <guru3> you don't look out
14:23 <guru3> you could die
14:24 <n54> :)
14:30 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/graphicblog/
14:30 <n54> hehe
14:43 <Gnorty> heh, the IRC logs are funny.
14:43 <Gnorty> didn't realise I caps-locked so much!
14:43 <guru3> my site is so disjointe
14:43 <guru3> d
14:44 <z-man> har, I just got my gf with the dihydrogenmonoxide stuff. Again :)
14:44 <guru3> haha
14:44 <guru3> showed her those images? x)
14:46 <z-man> No, I explained it to her
14:46 <guru3> aww :(
14:46 <z-man> works much better with her :)
14:46 <guru3> x)
14:46 <guru3> when in doubt- it's carcenogenic
14:47 <guru3> nitrates? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> uv light? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> mercury? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> cadmium? carcenogenic!
14:47 <guru3> pizza? carcenogenic!
14:48 <guru3> lead? carcenogenic!
14:48 <guru3> couldn't remember the last of the heavy metals
14:48 <z-man> reminds me of that:
14:48 <z-man> http://www.easy2remember.name/media/67/Rubidium-and-cesium-in-water.html
14:49 <z-man> In the end, they say "For some reason, they wouln't let us have Francium" :)
14:49 <guru3> i've seen the K and Na and stuff in real life
14:51 <guru3> the real question
14:51 <guru3> is why you keep links like that around? ;)
14:51 <z-man> My father brought us some blocks of Na to play with :)
14:51 <z-man> I don't :)
14:51 <z-man> It's in some other archive
14:52 <guru3> hrhr
14:52 <guru3> haha
14:52  * z-man hates it when one konqueror window hangs and it blocks another konqueror window
14:52 <guru3> that was amuzing
15:02 <Gnorty> that program is on TV here most days I think
15:02 <Gnorty> its cool
15:19 <wrtlprnft> omg
15:20 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:20 <wrtlprnft> i frote all those messages from wrtl_web_broken2 within a minute or so
15:20 <wrtlprnft> and they came spread over some minutes
15:20 <wrtlprnft> *wrote
15:21 <wrtlprnft> i use joda's website, but since it's blocked from scholl i have to use a proxy script, and it kinda screws things up
15:22 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
15:22 -!- wrtl_web_broken2 [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
15:22 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetron.nixda.net
15:26 <n54> wow "prison break" really has some twists and turns :o
15:32 <guru3> yeah
15:32 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:33 <n54> just saw the episode with the taj mahal model on tv, it's the only thing on tv I try to catch
15:33 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> ack.  It's terribly easy to break a bootloader, apparently
15:36 <n54> yes
15:36 <n54> they're tiny fragile things
15:37 <n54> I guess perhaps you reformatted whatever partiion it was hidden in?
15:37  * n54 has done that blunder
15:43 <guru3> there you are Lucifer_arma 
15:43 <guru3> http://electricpotential.net/upload/question3.png
15:43 <guru3> a friend of mine in college in the uk
15:44 <guru3> needed some help with his maths
15:44 <guru3> i did that answer ><
15:44 <guru3> had to consult my notes tho :/
15:44 <guru3> if i'd had it memorized i wouldn't a done so bad on the exam
15:51 <Lucifer_arma> ?  ummm, where's the problem?  :)  I see lots of work, but which one's the problem?
16:02 <guru3> good night
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> no, I tried to install the bootloader according to gentoo docs, and it not only wiped out the old one, but it put a non-working one in its place
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'e got Simple Boot Manager, which is pretty neat, and GRUB installed for the Kubuntu partition, and I'll try to install grub for the gentoo partition too.
16:04 <Lucifer_arma> it means I'll have to hit enter twice when I boot, once for SBM, and once for a grub
16:09 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: you wanted help with the HUD?
16:12 <n54> ah ok, a recent grub version or the "ancient" one?
16:12 <n54> sorry stupid question that was :)
16:14 <wrtlprnft> why is this stupid log not saying who voted for what poll?
16:14 <wrtlprnft> I though 
16:14 <wrtlprnft> t it would be in the logs even if voting_privacy was high
16:17 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, bans persist over sessions.
16:18 <McSpiddles> wrtl
16:18 <McSpiddles> when's the aw match?
16:18 <z-man> But don't ban them without reading the logs, I hardly saw what they were doing on account of being kicked immediately :) Perhaps they just wanted to have a private party and were only impolite.
16:19 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: not planned right now
16:19 <McSpiddles> k
16:19 <wrtlprnft> no, those guys are total idiots
16:19 <wrtlprnft> just reading
16:20 <wrtlprnft> they basically kicked everyone there
16:20 <wrtlprnft> and talked about shit
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> which guys?  am I missing good dirty happenings?
16:20  * Lucifer_arma puts on his gossip hat
16:21 <wrtlprnft> z-man: d'oh. Guess what they did by getting you autobanned...
16:21 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no, just three unknown kiddies on wrtlprnft's race server kick-voting me
16:21 <wrtlprnft> they banned your master server as well
16:21 <z-man> Ban the master server?
16:21 <z-man> Ah, no worries :)
16:21 <Lucifer_arma> good thing we have more than one...
16:21 <z-man> I wasn't playing from home.
16:21 <wrtlprnft> [17] Players from IP are banned for 43 minutes. Reason: This is an autoban from being kicked too often.
16:21 <z-man> That's my work UP
16:22 <z-man> IP
16:22 <wrtlprnft> i know, i did a whois and it says stuff about uni k�ln
16:22 <z-man> and pings, what the master does, aren't banned
16:22 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
16:22 <z-man> so even if I had played from home, nothing would have happened.
16:22 <z-man> The master server is running from home, btw. Just Fortress runs on stolen bandwidth :)
16:23 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> so what did they talk about then?  without giving up anything personal or whatever...
16:23 <wrtlprnft> z-man: you mind giving me that script you have on the CVS test servers?
16:23 <z-man> Nothing, I enter, they kickvote.
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> they're not planning to stage a coup or anything, eh?
16:24 <z-man> They did that with everyone
16:24 <wrtlprnft> no, definitely not
16:24 <Lucifer_arma> just wanted to kick everyone for he-said she-said crap?
16:24 <z-man> wrtlprnft: it's very crude...
16:24 <wrtlprnft> I'll upload the logs...
16:25 <z-man> Nah, really, that's overkill
16:25 <wrtlprnft> it's not their server
16:25 <z-man> It's just kiddies
16:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh.
16:26 <z-man> I'd rather interpret it as a feature request for "Lock this server, we're having a private match" feature :)
16:26 <z-man> Or a note to the server admin that the voting bias isn't high enough.
16:26 <wrtlprnft> they weren't having anything like that
16:27 <wrtlprnft> hmm, if there's 4 people and 3 vote, that's enough of a reson to me
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmmmm.  "Lock my server for a private match:  $10/hour"  :)
16:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:27 <z-man> Sure, why not? You can leave your credit card info in the request form.
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> not that I wouldn't mind having such a feature otherwise, integrate it with a tourney php script and you've got SPOON handled easily.
16:28 <z-man> right, only problem is that you want to allow players who timed out or whatnot back on
16:29 <z-man> so no authentication, no deal
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> the integration part assumes authentication, or at least a reasonable acceptance of identity.
16:29 <z-man> ok
16:30 <z-man> semi off topic: bzflag has a team league with elo-style ratings
16:30 <z-man> managed by some software that is OS, too.
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> could just be "hit the php script from the computer you want to play from first", then use that IP as the basis of identity
16:30 <z-man> Think we should have a look at it?
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> what software?
16:30  * z-man is digging
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> what's elo-style ratings?  :)
16:31 <z-man> Sort of what our ladder does, only better designed
16:31 <z-man> win a match, gain points, lose a match, lose points
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELO_rating_system
16:31 <z-man> the stronger your opponent, the more you can gain by winning
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> anybody read Split Infinity by Piers Anthony?
16:32 <z-man> http://my.bzflag.org/league/
16:32 <z-man> http://sourceforge.net/projects/web-league
16:32 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: no, haven't read that
16:33 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I wonder if there's a good explanation of the tournament system in that book available somewhere...
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'd liek to like the key features of the tourney in that book for armagetron :)
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> I'd liek to *lift the key features of the tourney in that book for armagetron :)
16:39 <n54> that wikipedia article on Elo was interesting stuff
16:39 <n54> /s/liek/like :)
16:44 <wrtlprnft> banned for a week now, all three of them. Sorry, I don't like idiots on my servers
16:46 <z-man> I like it when the idiots on my server call me noob :)
16:46 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Jan.log
16:46 <n54> :)
16:46 <wrtlprnft> you got that story from wrtl_web_broken about server restarts?
16:47 <wrtlprnft> (it was just me and that guy on the server, so it didn't affect anyone else)
16:47 <z-man> No, not yet, armabot is broken
16:47 <z-man> but I'll probably see it when I'm z-man-work again
16:48 <wrtlprnft> just about some guy renaming himself to Admin, red color and talking about a server restart in 30 seconds
16:48 <wrtlprnft> and, well, i guess he was surprised when it did restart in 30 seconds
16:50 <wrtlprnft> uh, someone play armabot for me and tell spidey and SD that we'll have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
16:50 <wrtlprnft> n54: later tell spidey we have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
16:52 <z-man> bedtime for /me
16:52 <wrtlprnft> night
16:52 <z-man> night, all
16:52 <n54> cya :)
16:52 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508706BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:52  * n54 wonders why he should tell spidey
16:52 <wrtlprnft> n54: the correct answer would be <n54> wrtlprnft: The operation suceeded.
16:53 <wrtlprnft> :P armabot is down
16:53 <n54> it's on holiday ;)
16:53 <wrtlprnft> paid or unpaid?
16:53 <n54> as gor a messenger you'ls sure like someone who doesn't have problems with short-term memory ;)
16:53 <n54> for*
16:53 <n54> you'ld*
16:54 <wrtlprnft> well, better memory than me i presume
16:54 <n54> paid afaik (I think it might be whoring away at #supybot) :P
16:54 <wrtlprnft> heh, it's a she, according to Lucifer_arma 
16:54 <n54> yeah I meant she
16:56 <wrtlprnft> I just chose you since you seem to be around 24/7
16:56 <n54> that's only because I tend to forget I'm here ;) j/k
16:56 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:57 <n54> I copied the message so if I'm here and I notice and the computer didn't freeze up on me or all other things that can go wrong I'll paste it when if he comes :)
16:57 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:01 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
17:01 <wrtlprnft> err
17:02 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
17:02  * McSpiddles yawns
17:02 <n54> later tell spidey we have a match against AW on saturday, 8PM CDT
17:02 <wrtlprnft> wrong
17:02 <n54> yay!
17:02 <Luke-Jr> Stage 3a complete
17:02 <n54> spiddles aint spidey?
17:02 <McSpiddles> nope
17:02 <n54> oh
17:02 <McSpiddles> lol....
17:02 <McSpiddles> :p
17:02 <n54> ;_; :D
17:03 <McSpiddles> what i really need
17:03 <McSpiddles> is sleep
17:03 <McSpiddles> lots and lots of.....sleep
17:03 <n54> me too
17:03 <McSpiddles> more than you can get in 1 day
17:03 <n54> and a handful of lovely ladies
17:03 <wrtlprnft> uh, good night i guess
17:03 <McSpiddles> lol wrtl
17:03 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has joined #armagetron
17:03 <McSpiddles> you sure it's 10 minutes ago?
17:03 <wrtlprnft> about
17:04 <McSpiddles> i need a precise time
17:04 <McSpiddles> that's what bots do
17:04 <McSpiddles> down to the nano-second
17:04 <wrtlprnft> well, tell armabot
17:04 <McSpiddles> lol
17:04 <wrtlprnft> armabot: hi there, WE NEED YOU!
17:04 <McSpiddles> #echo boo
17:04 <armabot> boo
17:04 <McSpiddles> :p
17:04 <wrtlprnft> !!!!
17:04 <wrtlprnft> it works?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:04 <McSpiddles> #tell wrtlprnft wtfpwn
17:04 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Gomme's Laws: || (1) A backscratcher will always find new itches. || (2) Time accelerates. || (3) The weather at home improves as soon as you go away.
17:05 <McSpiddles> :p
17:05 <McSpiddles> #tell wrtlprnft wtfpwn
17:05 <n54> *phew*
17:05 <McSpiddles> lol
17:05 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
17:05 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3, Gnorty, deja_vu_
17:05 <McSpiddles> #haxor wrtlprnft 
17:05 <McSpiddles> freenode netsplitting to much...
17:06 <n54> seen worse :)
17:06 <wrtlprnft> uh, i was logged in to that server yesterday
17:06 <wrtlprnft> I guess i can count myself lucky :D
17:06 <n54> :)
17:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Gnorty, deja_vu_, guru3
17:07 <Luke-Jr> lucky to be on the same half of the split as I am?
17:07 <Luke-Jr> =p
17:07 <wrtlprnft> no
17:07 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090AEA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:07 <n54> hehe Luke :)
17:07 <n54> wrtlprnft: have you messaged spidey?
17:07 <McSpiddles> spam war!
17:07  * McSpiddles fires rotten eggs
17:07  * n54 fires real quality spam
17:08 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Excess Flood]
17:08 <wrtlprnft> err
17:08 <n54> ??
17:08 <McSpiddles> no
17:08 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
17:08 <McSpiddles> he's broken
17:08 <wrtlprnft> poor guy
17:08 <McSpiddles> needs to be deleted
17:08  * McSpiddles rm's /home/wrtlprnft 
17:08 <McSpiddles> lol,wrtl broke it
17:08 <wrtlprnft> no, you did
17:08 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
17:08 <wrtlprnft> wb
17:08 <n54> he's a she, and we need that female touch here
17:08 <n54> armabot that is
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe n54 
17:09 <armabot> n54: GodTodd is the girl for you!
17:09 <wrtlprnft> haha
17:09 <McSpiddles> kik
17:09 <McSpiddles> lol*
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe wrtlprnft
17:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: armabot is the girl for you!
17:09 <n54> ooo
17:09 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe Lucifer_arma
17:09 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: MaZuffeR is the girl for you!
17:09 <Luke-Jr> #whoisshe McSpiddles 
17:09 <armabot> McSpiddles: wrtlprnft is the girl for you!
17:09 <wrtlprnft> HAHAHA
17:10 <McSpiddles> lol!
17:10 <wrtlprnft> too hairy
17:10 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe Luke-Jr 
17:10 <armabot> Luke-Jr: Lucifer_arma is the girl for you!
17:10 <McSpiddles> :p
17:10 <McSpiddles> #whoisshe z-man-work
17:10 <armabot> z-man-work: armabot is the girl for you!
17:10 <wrtlprnft> #realchatlogs
17:10 <armabot> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: No clue.
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: Come again?
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is wrtl real!?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: You know the answer better than I.
17:10 <Luke-Jr> ...
17:10 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ...
17:10 <McSpiddles> #eightball is god real?
17:10 <armabot> McSpiddles: It is so.
17:11 <McSpiddles> creepy
17:11 <n54> but true
17:11 <McSpiddles> :-s
17:11  * wrtlprnft watches Luke-Jr and Lucifer_arma marry
17:11 <McSpiddles> lol
17:11 <wrtlprnft> would they silence each other
17:11 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:12 <n54> yes, with a big sloppy french kiss :D
17:13 <wrtlprnft> I guess duct tape would be more appropiate
17:13  * n54 thnks wrtlprnft is kinky
17:14 <n54> thinks*
17:14 <wrtlprnft> I think there's pink duct tape, they could use that
17:14 <n54> :D
17:15 <McSpiddles> #list alias
17:15 <armabot> McSpiddles: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, specialroulette, superdice, (1 more message)
17:15 <McSpiddles> #more
17:15 <armabot> McSpiddles: surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
17:15 <McSpiddles> #poke wrtlprnft 
17:15 <armabot> I don't have a pointy stick...
17:15 <McSpiddles> #knock wrtlprnft 
17:15 <armabot> who's there?
17:15 <McSpiddles> :/
17:15 <Gnorty> wrtl - you there?
17:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: yes
17:15 <McSpiddles> #hose Gnorty
17:15 <armabot> armabot hoses everyone down.
17:15 <wrtlprnft> lucky i saw you within all of McSpiddles' spam
17:16 <McSpiddles> that's not spam
17:16 <wrtlprnft> but?
17:16 <Gnorty> :)
17:16 <wrtlprnft> maps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> mapS?
17:16 <McSpiddles> laps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> ?mapS?
17:16 <Gnorty> wrtl - HUD info - I have a nice rubber guage which is immensely helpful, but I would like it nicer!
17:16 <McSpiddles> ?caps?
17:16 <wrtlprnft> mapSSpam
17:17 <McSpiddles> s
17:17 <McSpiddles> p
17:17 <McSpiddles> a
17:17 <McSpiddles> m
17:17 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: nicer in what way?
17:17 <McSpiddles> now,that's spam
17:17 <wrtlprnft> 17:17 Ignoring ALL from McSpiddles
17:17 <Gnorty> well. It is intentionally huge, and if I have a caption on, the caption occupies the majority of the lower screen
17:17 <wrtlprnft> gotta find out later how to revert this once my conversation with Gnorty is finished
17:18 <wrtlprnft> yeah, captions on vertical gauges suck
17:18 <wrtlprnft> just disable it and make a label ;)
17:18 <spidey> :p
17:18 <Gnorty> I would like it in the guage itself (position='center' didnt work) and also if poss to have alpha at about .2 for the text. is currently that possible?
17:18 <wrtlprnft> 17:18 Ignoring ALL from spidey
17:19 <wrtlprnft> text with alpha?
17:19 <Gnorty> the guage isnt vertical, it is horizontal, but 95% screen width
17:19 <wrtlprnft> uh, currently not, although the engine could deal with it
17:19 <Gnorty> ^ yes
17:20 <wrtlprnft> the text appears strange for huge gauges, i know, but i know no way around it
17:20 <Gnorty> best of all would be if the caption made the guage completely transparent, so the text has no colour as such, but is  kinda cut into the guage
17:20 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's impossible
17:20 <Gnorty> Just wondered if it is possible is all, I can deal with having no caption, I know what that guage does!
17:21 <wrtlprnft> 17:20 -!- Irssi: Unignored spidey
17:21 <wrtlprnft> 17:20 -!- Irssi: Unignored McSpiddles
17:21 <wrtlprnft> just say <Caption location="off">
17:21 <Gnorty> k, so is the only options for caption position top or bottom?
17:21 <wrtlprnft> or completely omit the caption
17:21 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:21 <n54> hey you are spidey!
17:21 <Gnorty> ^ I just deleted the caption lines :)
17:22 <wrtlprnft> captions are more intended for normal gauges
17:22 <Gnorty> also, I am editing the default cockpit file. is that the intended method?
17:22 <wrtlprnft> definitely not
17:22 <Gnorty> thought not
17:22 <wrtlprnft> gauges are resources, like maps
17:22 <Gnorty> so how to tell arma which file to use?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> just instead of saying MAP_FILE you say COCKPIT_FILE
17:23 <Gnorty> ah, kk
17:23 <Gnorty> kewl
17:23 <wrtlprnft> don't forget to give me a screenshot when you're finished ;)
17:23 <Gnorty> :)
17:23 <wrtlprnft> and don't forget to upload it to the official resource repository!!!!
17:24 <wrtlprnft> (exept that it's not possible since Luke-Jr messed it up)
17:24 <Gnorty> I have what I wanted really, (well worth installing from CVS to get it) but will undoubtably tinker some more. I am toying with a speed guage that doubles as max speed
17:24 <wrtlprnft> doubles?
17:24 <wrtlprnft> heh, actually...
17:25 <wrtlprnft> that might be an idea, having a gauge that displays how fast you are in relation to the fastest guy
17:25 <wrtlprnft> might actually be of use, different than the normal speed gauge, which is useless
17:26 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:27 <Gnorty> yes, so that top speed and player speed are shown on the same guage
17:27 <Gnorty> ^ I meant top speed above, not max
17:27 <Gnorty> if I set the max value  for the guage to be top speed instead of max, would that work? so the indication is kinda the percentage of the current fastset speed?
17:27 <Gnorty> ie would the guage range change dynamically during a round
17:27 <Gnorty> what I thought exactly
17:28 <Gnorty> also I was thinking a guage to indicate proximity to the nearest wall. would that be possible? I appreciate maybe not yet implemented
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it should work just fine
17:29 <wrtlprnft> it's not implemented, no
17:29 <wrtlprnft> the only trouble with this is that i don't know how to use sensors
17:29 <wrtlprnft> and i need those to get the nearest wall
17:29 <Gnorty> ah, ok
17:30 <wrtlprnft> gotta mess around with that at some point in time
17:31 <Gnorty> do I understand correctly that it is possible to add arbitrary images to guages? ie, I could put a bexel on a guage, and maybe graduations in the background?
17:31 <Gnorty> ^ bezel
17:32 <wrtlprnft> uh, not right now
17:32 <wrtlprnft> it will be possible once we figure out how to store and link to those images
17:32 <Gnorty> ah, OK. when I read about the layers on the wiki I thought that is what was possible, but could find no way to do it
17:32 <Gnorty> :)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> you might wanna update your checkout, i just fixed a bug with the "Fastest Player" stuff
17:33 <Gnorty> I am good for now. I have my enormous rubber guage, and nothing is really broken, so unless that changes I am good
17:34 <wrtlprnft> you'll need it if you want to make your speed gauge
17:34 <wrtlprnft> it got confused by dead players
17:34 <Gnorty> ah, ok. I hadn't noticed the top speed thing was broken
17:34 <wrtlprnft> if someone died with a big speed he would be considered the fastest player
17:34 <wrtlprnft> if noone else matched the speed he had
17:34 <Gnorty> is that not intended behaviour?
17:34 <wrtlprnft> no
17:35 <Gnorty> oh, I thought it was. so it is the fastest speed of a living player?
17:35 <wrtlprnft> the intended behaviour is to show the speed of the fastest person right at the moment
17:35 <Gnorty> ah. that I didnt know. I assumed max speed for the round
17:35 <wrtlprnft> that changed, i didn't find out how to implement that yet
17:36 <wrtlprnft> it will be a separate callback once i figured it out ;)
17:36 <Gnorty> ok. well, I have to go now, but will probably do some messing tomorrow
17:36 <Gnorty> thanks for info
17:37 <Gnorty> laters
17:37 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:56 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destucto there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
17:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:05 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3
18:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: guru3
18:16 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
18:31 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
18:41 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
18:42 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
18:42 <Self_Destructo> asdf
18:42 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> no notes
18:42 <wrtlprnft> ack
18:42 <Self_Destructo> ?
18:42 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destucto
18:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 45 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
18:42 <Self_Destructo> I worked 10 and 1/2 hours today
18:42 <wrtlprnft> wow
18:42 <Self_Destructo> big day
18:43 <Self_Destructo> so I just came in, and I'm too tired to think about even programming a thing
18:43 <wrtlprnft> night?
18:43 <Self_Destructo> 6:45pm
18:43 <Self_Destructo> i can't be there on that turnament, sorry
18:44 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:44 <Self_Destructo> i know
18:44 <Self_Destructo> that's just too late
18:44 <Self_Destructo> I could do it at 4-6
18:44 <wrtlprnft> 8 PM?
18:44 <Self_Destructo> 8pm is too late
18:44 <Self_Destructo> i go home early
18:44 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i might send a mail back and say that 4PM is better
18:44 <Self_Destructo> on sat
18:44 <Self_Destructo> ok
18:44 <Self_Destructo> keep me updated then
18:45 <wrtlprnft> 5-7PM is bad for me
19:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:24 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
20:07 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:10 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
20:27 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
20:40 <Lucifer_arma> armabot started working again?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:41 <wrtlprnft> noone really noticed for a while
20:41 <wrtlprnft> #f
20:41 <armabot> Random Fortune:  Is that really YOU that is reading this?
20:54 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1000000/365
20:54 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1,000,000 / 365 = 2,739.72603
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2740/9
20:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,740 / 9 = 304.444444
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> #g 304/24
20:55 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 304 / 24 = 12.6666667
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> #g 12.6666666667 / 60
20:56 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 12.6666666667 / 60 = 0.211111111
20:57 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cow-on_pole%2C_with_horns.jpeg
20:57 <wrtlprnft> what a useful image for wikipedia
20:58 <n54> heh weird origin too :)
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> how many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?
20:59 <n54> infinite?
21:00 <GodTodd> Two: One to hold the giraffe, and the other to fill the bathtub
21:00 <GodTodd> with brightly colored machine tools. 
21:00 <n54> hehe
21:00 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:01 <Self_Destructo> #notes
21:01 <armabot> Self_Destructo: I currently have notes waiting for $1, $junkee, $randomnick, chanserv, everyone, junk, Lucifer_arma,, McSpiddles|zZzZz, MemoServ, NickServ, philippeq, phillipeq, Self_Destucto, and [^w].
21:01 <Self_Destructo> heh
21:01 <Self_Destructo> it isn't giving me my notes for some reason
21:01 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:01 <wrtlprnft> spellig mistake
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Se�f_Destucto
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destucto
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 3 hours and 5 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> there'll probably be a match on saturday, 8PM CDT against AW... do you have time?
21:01 <wrtlprnft> #notes Self_Destructo
21:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
21:01 <Lucifer_arma> Self_Destucto
21:02 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as Self_Destucto
21:02 <Self_Destucto> asdf
21:02 -!- Self_Destucto is now known as Self_Destructo
21:02 <wrtlprnft> :P
21:02 <wrtlprnft> #notes junk
21:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 2 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, and 55 minutes ago: <philippeqc> junk
21:02 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:02 -!- You're now known as junk
21:02 <junk> asdf
21:02 <Self_Destructo> lol, you didn't tab?
21:02 <Lucifer_arma> Skunk in the barnyard, pe-uw!  Somebody ate it, guess who?  I 1 it.
21:02 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
21:03 <n54> ??
21:03 <Lucifer_arma> you say "I 2 it"
21:03 <n54> oh that kind
21:03 <n54> I 2 it
21:03 <Lucifer_arma> I 3 it
21:04 <n54> I 4 it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> I 5 it
21:04 <n54> I 6 it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> I 7 iy
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> (it
21:04 <Lucifer_arma> *it
21:04 <n54> haha
21:05  * n54 feels like a three year old :S
21:05  * Luke-Jr wonders why =p
21:05 <n54> :) well time for bed, cya all
21:05 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron []
21:06 <wrtlprnft> i wonder what exactly toggles Luke-Jr's apperance
21:06 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --nolimit
21:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [21:05:37] * Luke-Jr wonders why =p, [17:11:00] <Luke-Jr> ..., and [17:10:03] <Luke-Jr> #whoisshe McSpiddles
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> ARMABOT IS A SHE!
21:07 <wrtlprnft> if you say so...
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'll give you a link to a picture of her after my kids go to bed
21:07 <wrtlprnft> that explains why she is absent sometimes
21:07 <wrtlprnft> n54 is suspecting she's flirting in #supybot
21:09 <wrtlprnft> #armabot are you flirting in #supybot sometimes?
21:09 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The answer is certainly yes.
21:09 <wrtlprnft> see?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot do you think sexual promiscuity should be given the derogatory title 'slut'?
21:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: You're kidding, right?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot do you think sexual promiscuity should be given the derogatory title 'slut'?
21:10 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: In your dreams.
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> good girl!
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> that also explains the pictures I have of her.  :)
21:11 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma occasionally?
21:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Come again?
21:11 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:12 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.sexylosers.com/200.html   <--- graphic
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma every day?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What are you asking me for?
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma all the time?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The answer is def-- oooh! shiny thing!
21:12 <wrtlprnft> #armabot, do you flirt with Lucifer_arma continuously?
21:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Come again?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:13 <wrtlprnft> she just doesn't say yes
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #yes
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot yes?
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: In your dreams.
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot no?
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: It shall be.
21:13 <Lucifer_arma> #armabot thank you.
21:13 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The outlook is poor.
21:14 <wrtlprnft> #list alias
21:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 42, add, admin, all, answer, armabot, armabot,, armabot:, b, barf, canada, chatlog, clash, digg, eightballs, eliza, f, fe, fortune, g, gcalc, hello, hose, ignoreme, insight, it's, knock, lock, log, log, lotto, man, mashuffle, message, mfaq, morning, night, pang, parrot, peng, poke, pong, postal, pun, pung, q, realchatlogs, remove, roulete, roulette, roulettebot, roulettte, spam, (1 more message)
21:14 <wrtlprnft> #more
21:14 <armabot> wrtlprnft: specialroulette, superdice, surprise, teamlist, test, unlock, wakespam, whoisshe, wikipedia, and yoda
21:14 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:14 <wrtlprnft> i say 50% of them are pointless
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #help mfaq
21:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (mfaq <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo set CYCLE_DELAY above 0 to avoid bikes jumping to the wrong side of trails when doubling back on trails".
21:15 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
21:15 <wrtlprnft> #help b
21:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (b <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "tell SuPeRTaRD llllllllllllllllooooooooooooooollllllllllllllll".
21:16 <wrtlprnft> O_o
21:16 <wrtlprnft> #help pun
21:16 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (pun <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo bauzhahaha!".
21:19 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090ACA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:40 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: you there?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: yes
21:44 <Self_Destructo> how long would it take you to write a php scrip that would just grab the top ten of of http://selfdestructo.net/armastats/ladder.txt?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> uh, 5 minutes?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> what should it do with it?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> $file = file("http://selfdestructo.net/armastats/ladder.txt");
21:46 <wrtlprnft> for($i=0; $i<10; ++$i) {
21:46 <wrtlprnft>     list($score, $name) = explode(' ', $file[$i], 2);
21:46 <wrtlprnft>     //do something with the score and name
21:46 <wrtlprnft> }
21:47 <Self_Destructo> print it out is all I need
21:47 <wrtlprnft> print out as what? HTML table?
21:48 <Self_Destructo> hm
21:50 <Self_Destructo> nope
21:51 <Self_Destructo> plain old text
21:51 <wrtlprnft> bah
21:51 <wrtlprnft> boring
21:51 <Self_Destructo> heh, it's all that's needed here
21:51 <wrtlprnft> lust replace that list line by print($file[$i])
21:51 <Self_Destructo> it's going into a tight spot
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you're much better off with head -n 10 filename
21:52 <wrtlprnft> that's no reason not to use a table. ASCII tables suck
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> so why doesn't qt4 respect my theme?  qt3 does...
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> "Please use ink".  Really?  I thought they wanted blood...
21:57 <wrtlprnft> maybe not pencil?
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting the impression more and more that the admissions staff won't be satisfied with anything less than a contract for my soul, written and signed in blood
22:01 <GodTodd> didn't you read the fine print on the admission application? ;)
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> nevertheless, this effort to establish residency is quite robust compared to the others.  This time I've got a lease that isn't quite a year old but has dates written on it that show it's an extension of an earlier lease, I'll have a copy of the earlier lease tomorrow (with luck).
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> I have a letter from my neighbor (which I wrote and he approved the text) which he will sign tomorrow, date, and notarize (notary's down the street).
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> And I have all the formation documents for my bank account at a local credit union.
22:02 <GodTodd> they require all that?
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'm tempted to throw in my birth certificate and marriage license just so I can get pissed and say "Look, I've been a texan all my life, you asshat!"
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's what they've agreed to take.
22:03 <Lucifer_arma> rather, that's what their residency expert agreed to take.  I'm supposed to take it in to the regular admissions office, and *hope* they take it too.  Otherwise it's a fight.
22:03 <GodTodd> geez....cccd says TXDL or voter registration card would work
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> right, except that I just got my TXDL a couple of days ago.
22:04 <GodTodd> ahhhh
22:04 <GodTodd> i got mine a year ago
22:04 <GodTodd> also have the voter card
22:04 <Lucifer_arma> see, part of this problem is my doing, no doubt about that, ok?  I'm lax about changing over documentation, and to be honest, it's worth it to me to pay the fine and push my old license to the end.
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't register to vote because I would have barely missed the pres. election, and figured I had a year or two to worry about it.
22:05 <GodTodd> yeah....but that shouldn't mean they need a whole family's blood samples to test for "Texan"
22:05 <Lucifer_arma> and since I don't work for a texas company as an employee, don't own a home, what else is there?
22:05 <GodTodd> true
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> this problem has happened because of two reasons.  :)  Both my fault, when you get right down to it.  I'm lax about changing over documentation, and I don't lead a "normal, average" lifestyle
22:06 <GodTodd> normal == average?
22:06 <GodTodd> :D
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> but I figure if you're taking up residency somewhere, you're planning on staying there a long time, there's no hurry to get everything changed over right away.
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> and there are things that are more important than getting documentation switched over when the old documentation is still legally valid
22:07 <GodTodd> i'm hoping they ask what i've been doing for the past year while unemployed
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> but aha, the problem was significantly compounded when their admissions staff *lied* to me about what documentation I would need to show proof of residency.
22:07 <GodTodd> i'll tell them 'waiting to meet residency requirements so that you don't have to pull money out of my ass too'
22:07 <GodTodd> what'd they tell you you need?
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> Had they said from the beginning "you must have a tx id of some sort, get registered to vote, and show us your lease" I would have done that!
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> they said just a copy of my lease was enough.
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> this was in November of 2004
22:08 <GodTodd> ahhh, yeah...i only knew because i went down a year ago and asked
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> In November of 2005, they said a copy of my lease, a bill in my name, and a bank statement were enough
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I would have all that in April of this year, because we opened our bank account in April 2005.
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> so when I called up, she tried to tell me that wasn't going to work either.  And I got pissed because the time scale on this runaround is huge, and in the meantime I'm paying double tuition!
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> she caved and the compromise is what I've just about got prepared.
22:09 <GodTodd> right
22:10 <GodTodd> do they work behind bulletproof glass there?
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> NO
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, the cashier does.
22:10 <GodTodd> sounds like they're going to regret that one of these days
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> Which means, of course, that I can do it RIght, with my bare hands...
22:10 <GodTodd> yeah...but it's not the cashier dicking you around
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not.  :)
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> the cashiers are very nice.
22:11 <GodTodd> of course....you feed them money
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> so are the financial aid people, and the counseling staff.
22:11 <GodTodd> keep giving me money and i'll be REALLY nice :D
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> it probably doesn't help that I transact most of my own business online, so there isn't really a paper trail.
22:11 <GodTodd> right
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> there's accountability, of course, but that's not the same as a paper trail.
22:11 <GodTodd> yep
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if they're just trying to punish me for moving to Washington for 4 years.
22:12 <GodTodd> lol
22:12 <GodTodd> don't put it past them
22:12 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:12 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> I don't, man.  And the woman I talked to last time (who still works in that office, dammit) kept trying to treat me like I was some jobless loser living with his parents
22:13 <GodTodd> lol
22:13 <GodTodd> i'd love that....i'm a jobless loser who lives with his wife :D
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> because she asked me if I had a job, and I said "no".  :)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> she even said "Well, if you can't get a job, how are you paying for school?"
22:15 <GodTodd> heh
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I've got "mooch" written all over me.
22:16 <GodTodd> i guess so if she assumed you "can't" get a job instead of you "don't have" a job
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> she was assuming something, that's for sure.  Her whole attitude changed from "I want to help" to "get this loser away from me"
22:17 <GodTodd> i haven't had a haircut since the week before my removal trial....and i'm usually lax on shaving....maybe they'll think i'm a 31 year old living in his parents' garage :D
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> but the residency lady, she was very nice and worked to help me.  The difference, of course, being that when I talked to the residency lady last week, I was sitting on 28 credit hours of straight A's
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> clearly not a loser.  :)
22:18 <GodTodd> right
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> I shave about once a week.  :)  And my hair's to the middle of my back...
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> and, oh yeah, here's the fun stuff.  Besides the Indiana Jones hat, and the t-shirts you've come to expect, I use a bandana instead of a button on my pants.
22:19 <GodTodd> mine's barely at my shoulders :/
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> So I've got this bandana hanging down in my crotch.  Totally cowboy, man.  I've even had kids say "Look mommy, a real cowboy!"
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha
22:19 <GodTodd> no lavender leather pants tho, right? ;)
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> no, sorry.  cotton pants, for the most part, not blue jeans
22:20 <Lucifer_arma> I used to have some cool purple jeans, though.  Those were awesome.
22:20 <GodTodd> yeah...i'm old too...i like the cotton pants
22:20 <GodTodd> ;)
22:21 <GodTodd> community colleges are pretty useless on fridays iirc
22:22 <GodTodd> might wait til monday to get the ball rolling
22:22 <Lucifer_arma> figure out what you're going to study yet?
22:23 <GodTodd> overall, yes...they have to tell me specificities and order ;)
22:24 <GodTodd> Electrical Engineering struck my fancy
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, you said that.  :)  Sorry, filling out papers right now.
22:24 <GodTodd> np
22:24 <Lucifer_arma> so if I seem distracted, yadayada
22:24 <GodTodd> i'm the type that it could very well have changed :D
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> now the fun part.  I have to fill out two Affidavit of Loss papers for Washington state, to get titles for my truck and my trailer, so I can get rid of the damn things
22:25 <GodTodd> loss?
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> lost titles
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> I never received the title for my truck, and blew it off for no good reason I can think of.  The title for the trailer was lost during the move.
22:26 <GodTodd> ahhh
22:26 <GodTodd> i see
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> normally you just go down there, show them your ID, and they print you a new one....
22:26 <GodTodd> i sold my 93 voyager when i got down here....gave me 600$ for it
22:27 <GodTodd> sucker was close to needing a lot of nickel and dime type of work
22:27 <GodTodd> not to mention no place to put it
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> here's hoping I didn't throw away my washington license
22:28 <GodTodd> *hoping* :)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, the voyager is an exception to the rule, but the rule is normally that if you work your way through the nickel and dime period, you wind up with a nearly new car at the end
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> and save a lot of money
22:28 <GodTodd> right
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> (I've got other papers that contain my WA license number, don't worry)
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> but the voyage, with it's disposable transmission, is an exception to that rule.
22:28 <GodTodd> yeah...the tranny had a year or two left maybe
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> because the nickel and dime period is usually kicked off by a bad transmission, and then ends with another bad transmission.  Heh.
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> Then it's "replace the tranny every 6 years or 60000 miles"
22:29 <GodTodd> yep
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious!  Peple at jiffy lube would always ask how long they could expect their tranny's to last, and if they had a voyager, I'd say 60,000 miles.
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> People there that had older voyagers would back me up!  :)
22:30 <GodTodd> my voyager had 160K miles or so....
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> ah, so you were on the 4th tranny then :)
22:30 <GodTodd> lol
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> or you had a tranny that was in really bad shape
22:30 <GodTodd> nope...i never replaced one
22:30 <GodTodd> the latter
22:30 <GodTodd> was having some trouble shifting...reverse i believe
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> like clockwork.  A guy came in for an oil change, I tried to sell him the transmission service, he said he'd never had it done, I looked at the mileage and said "Well, it wouldn't save you anyway, your tranny's going to go out any day now."
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> He came in about a month later with his other car and told me I was right, his tranny went out two days later.  Haha.  POor guy, though.
22:31 <GodTodd> and it did?
22:31 <GodTodd> lol
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> on my recommendation, he went and bought a Chevy mini van instead.  :)  Saw him almost a year after that, and he ws loving it.  Maybe it was more than a year after that,
22:32 <Lucifer_arma> had to be even longer, jeez.  It was at Meineke, and that's at least a year after I stopped working at jiffy lube.
22:32 <GodTodd> well...i'll always remember my voyager fondly....got to chase my ex out of the street with it once :D
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, you know, I alwyas thought they needed battering rams anyway
22:33 <GodTodd> :)
22:33 <GodTodd> honestly thought i was going to get arrested that day
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> hurray, I still have my wa license
22:35 <GodTodd> cool :)
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> I think men should have a right to kill their wives.  You can't beat them, can't make them suffer, or anything like that.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> But I think you should be able to kill them as humanely as possible.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and it's a natural right.  That's what I think.
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and attempted murder is just a failure to fully exercise that right.  :)
22:37 <GodTodd> yeah...but most of the time wives are alright....and killing them is so permanent
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> well, here's the thing.
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> A lot of women read "till death do us part" as a way to nag their husband incessantly and do other really nasty things that aren't legally abusive, but might as well be
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> drive their husbands crazy, I swearah
22:38 <GodTodd> true
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> So it would just close the deal.  "we part on your death"
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> Come on, you want a woman to not nag, just don't marry her.  :)
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> I say that, but my wife's actually good about not nagging.  She's awesome that way.  Naturally I'm not talking about her.
22:39 <GodTodd> that doesn't work sometimes...the not marrying her 
22:39 <GodTodd> the one i married nags far less than the one i didn't :D
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> no, but she can't take you to the cleaners for breaking up either :)
22:40 <GodTodd> true...she sends me money every month heh
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:40 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going outside, the information I need to fill out this paper is there (on my truck)
22:41 <GodTodd> have fun :)
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> ok, got it.  Got everything that I need to have notarized ready.  :)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> that leaves one thing undone that I'd hoped to do tonight, which was install my CD player into my car.  :(
22:58 <GodTodd> those easy to do?
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  Sure.  After you've done a few, anyway....
22:58 <GodTodd> i haven't done that :/
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> granted, I never did stereo installation, but I've done so much stereo installation for myself that I've got the hang of it.  :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'll probably need to run new wires to the speakers, it's got the factory radio in it right now, which usually uses 6 wires, sharing the ground on each side.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> So the left speakers have two positive wires and one negative, but the aftermarket CD player requires separate grounds for each speaker.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> I already checked to make sure the speakers themselves are all in good shape, no problems there.  :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> but running speaker wire is a real pain in the ass.  Mostly because I'm anal about running it out of sight and peel up the carpet to do it.
23:00 <GodTodd> ahhhh
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> The two front speakers are in the dash and at the bottom, easy to wire, but the rears are where you'd expect them to be in a small imitation sportscar
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> power leads are usually clearly marked.  You need two powers and one ground.  one power is memory, and if it's missing, you just run a wire straight to the battery.
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> all tht does is remember where it is on the CD, store presets, and tick the clock.
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> It's either yellow or blue, typically.  With red or orange being the main power lead that's switched on by the key.
23:02 <GodTodd> ok
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the really annoying part is tearing the console apart to mount the thing.  It's especialy tricky when the car wasn't designed for a radio as deep as a CD player usually is.
23:02 <GodTodd> right
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> tape decks are shallower by several inches.  In my old Subaru, the CD player always stuck out by an inch because it was too deep, bumped up against AC duct, and I never got around to rearranging the ducts.
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> That's shit-ass work, ductwork in cars.
23:03 <GodTodd> i bet
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> otoh, I've done enough tearing up of consoles on the junkyard to know what I'm getting myself into, and I've tore up more than one 86 Celica :)
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> ironically, the cruise unit that's in this particular car is one my old manager at the junkyard gave to me, and I made it a birthday present to my brother-in-law
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> and then later I bought the car from them.  :)
23:05 <GodTodd> roundabout way to get it :)
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> I made sure to ask him how much for it right after the boss-man chewed his ass out over something petty :)
23:05  * Lucifer_arma can be a tad manipulative sometimes
23:06 <GodTodd> :D
23:44 <guru3> good morning
23:44 <guru3> toast bbl
23:49 <guru3>  /aw
23:49 <guru3> and i'm back
23:49 <guru3> yum for toast

Log from 2006-05-19:
--- Day changed Fri May 19 2006
00:09 <guru3> chem exam
00:09 <guru3> :D
00:09 <guru3> bbl
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> oh boy.  my dome light started working, I've got my cd player halfway installed now.  :)  Just need to pop in a CD and listen to it.
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> The neat thing about stereo installation is that you do the last half of the work with music.  :)
00:31 <GodTodd> :)
01:06  * Lucifer_arma is finished installing is cd player
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> and for a first, I had no screws left over.  :)
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> and it fit nicely.  :)  Not perfectly, but nicely.  I won't notice the rough edges, and neither will anyone else.
01:08 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> the old tape deck, besides not having a cd player, had that problem where the volume knob didn't complete work right, got fuzzy when you move it, that stuff
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> needs a new potentiameter (sp?) there
01:09 <GodTodd> the six disc in the toyota is great for longer trips
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> not worth fixing, especially when I have a cd player laying around waiting for a car
01:09 <GodTodd> yep
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  When I drove my truck down here, the cd player was in it.  And it has an aux jack.  So I plugged my laptop into it and got the full benefit of a 13gb mp3 collection
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> I never heard the same song twice, over a 4-day drive!
01:09 <GodTodd> that would rock :)
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> it did.  :)
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> and I first heard Hook in Mouth, first ever!, driving through an area in Wyoming at sunrise that was particularly scenic.  It was wild.
01:10 <GodTodd> i just have one of those tape/cd converter dealies in the subaru
01:10 <Lucifer_arma> classic cartoony stuff, tunnel ahead of me, neato desert-type rock formations along the road and in the distance, etc.
01:10 <GodTodd> heh
01:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm going to buy one of those iRiver dealies when I put a few bucks together, they support ogg after all
01:11 <GodTodd> what're those?
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm going to have to insist on an available aux jack for car stereos for the future
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> um, they're personal mp3 players
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> personal *music* players, I should say, because they're not limited to mp3.  Support ogg vorbis!  :)
01:12 <Lucifer_arma> iPod for LInux geeks, essentially
01:13 <GodTodd> ahhhh
01:13 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:13 <GodTodd> what do they run?
01:13 <GodTodd> price wise i mean
01:13 <Lucifer_arma> ~$150, iirc.  At Best Buy, that was.
01:14 <GodTodd> only 150?
01:14 <Lucifer_arma> damn.  wiki's being spammed.  wrtl will be so pissed at me for not yet putting his hack in there.
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I actually took the cd player from a home installation.  I had taken a computer case I had laying around and hacked its power supply to power the CD player.  :)
01:18 <Lucifer_arma> my truck came with a speakerbox because my brother-in-law didn't want to dig it out, and I decided to dig it out, so I was using it for speakers.  :)
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> then I dug out my yamaha amp my neighbor gave me and got my little system going without the cd player, so it was just sitting there....
01:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably never going to have a regular home stereo unit again, I think.  Just guitar amps and a mixer.
01:19 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:20 <GodTodd> wow...fry's has the 6GB iRiver for 180$
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> but the speaker box has a blown speaker in it, which is why I wasn't really using it.  I should fix that, but then what do I do with it?  The celica's got plenty of noise in it, all 4 speakers work nicely (I just tested)
01:20 <Lucifer_arma> sweet!  That's awesome.  Half of my collection.... :)
01:21 <Lucifer_arma> the half I listen to, for that matter.
01:21 <GodTodd> 20GB for 250$
01:21 <GodTodd> hmmm...i need a new player ;)
01:21 <GodTodd> heh
01:21  * Lucifer_arma pencils in 5 extra hours onto his next invoice....  heh
01:22 <GodTodd> i'm still using a 32MB Rio that my inlaws gave me a while back
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> you know, to be honest I don't really do the portable music thing anymore.
01:22 <GodTodd> i really only do it when mowing the lawn and stuff
01:22 <Lucifer_arma> having this family, well, I don't just sit and listen to realy loud music anymore.  So I've rolled all my music listening into driving, and otherwise don't listen a lot.
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that's an idea.  For doing chores....
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> you know, without bothering the rest of the family with it.  :)
01:23 <GodTodd> that's what gets me through them ;)
01:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'd probably mow the lawn a lot more than I do now....heh
01:23 <GodTodd> heh
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the flip side is it would really stall work on the new sound engine for armagetron :)
01:24 <GodTodd> yeah...i don't see karen listening to king diamond and stuff ;)
01:24 -!- McSpiddles|zZzZz [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> seeing as how my driving force is wanting to listen to music ingame
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I don't know if karen would get off on that, haha
01:24 <GodTodd> true :)
01:24 <Lucifer_arma> here's something.  You still got Wrathchild America laying around?
01:25 <GodTodd> no :(
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> oh.  Sorry.
01:25 <GodTodd> used to have a tape...don't know what happened to it
01:25 <GodTodd> wish i did
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> I'd popped in 3d in the other car the other day, and my kids were back there whispering "this song's about vampires!"
01:25 <GodTodd> lol
01:25 <Lucifer_arma> when I get my new server running (old server, new OS), I'll put my collection up in a little private place and hook you up with ftp.
01:26 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:26 <GodTodd> holy fucking crap batman
01:27 <GodTodd> 22.88 for a used climbin' the walls?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> you *found* a used climbin' the walls?!?
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> link, now!
01:27 <GodTodd> amazon.com
01:27 <GodTodd> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-4104620-8635838?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music&field-keywords=wrathchild%20america
01:27  * Lucifer_arma still has some allowance money left after his last book-buying
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> 54.95 new?!?!?
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder how much my 3D CDs are worth.  I've got a couple of those, I bought spares last time I found them.
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> oh, not much.  $9, haha.
01:29 <GodTodd> yeah...apparently it's climbin' the walls that's hard to get ;)
01:29 <GodTodd> wonder if i should break out the CC
01:29 <GodTodd> ;)
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> you just try to beat me to this :)
01:30 <GodTodd> trying to remember if they were any good as souls at zero
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> done
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> they *were* souls at zero
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> name change, because an english hairband named Wrathchild sued them
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> the self-titled souls at zero album is the best work they ever did, actually, even if it is a tad whiny
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> ah
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> nvm, reread what you said
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> forgive me, I've had a long day, haha
01:33 <GodTodd> np
01:33 <Lucifer_arma> also, the self-title souls at zero is the only one I don't have (besides climbin' the walls, which I just ordered :) )
01:33 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> $54 new, that freaks me out
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's not like Wrathchild America was every particularly popular.  They got their week on dial MTV, and that was it.  And that song was on 3d!
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> although, I'd have bought the new one if I had $54 to plunk down on it
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> but man, you can't even find those songs on opennap!
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> I found Day of the Thunder, that was it.  None of the rest.
01:36 <McSpiddles> the movie?
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> song
01:36 <McSpiddles> ah
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> metal song, you wouldn't like it
01:36 <McSpiddles> why wouldn't i
01:36 <GodTodd> yeah....i know...i've tried finding the songs....only one i could find was time
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> haha, that one's not even very good.  :)
01:37 <GodTodd> 39.97...not too bad...
01:37 <GodTodd> got all 3
01:37 <GodTodd> :)
01:37 <GodTodd> :D
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:37 <GodTodd> i wore out climbin' the walls the summer after HS
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  Damn tapes, eh?
01:37 <GodTodd> yep
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> I sold my CDs right before I got married, my wife, er, gf, ad I were dead-ass broke and living in my car
01:38 <GodTodd> i love amazon for the hard to find cds
01:38 <GodTodd> been there...i was homeless when i sold a bunch of mine
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> the wrathchild ones went last, though.  I hung onto them as long as possible, and as soon as possible started looking again.
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> made the souls at zero connection when their first, self-title album was actually a current release :)
01:39 <GodTodd> have they shipped yet?  now i'm jonesin' heh
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> haha
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be in the mail tomorrow :)
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> "When you see me doing 83 in a 55, I might kill a cop!"
01:39 <GodTodd> yeah...that means middle to end of next week :/
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> as long as it gets here before I start driving my car.  :)
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> been wanting to hear No Deposit, No Return for awhile now
01:39 <GodTodd> but....we don't leave for NM until the 27th....hopefully they'll be here in time :D
01:40 <GodTodd> that's a cool song
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  it's the story of my life
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> except we got back together :)
01:40 <GodTodd> :)
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> did I tell you I exchanged emails with Brad Divens awhile back?
01:40 <GodTodd> yeah....i remember when they changed their name....does that make me old? heh
01:40 <GodTodd> no you didn't
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  I ws googling for wrathchild america and not having any luck, so I googled brad divens
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> turned up his resume with an email address.
01:41 <GodTodd> cool :)
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> I figured what the hell?  Maybe he's got some CDs laying around he could send me?  heh
01:41 <Lucifer_arma> so I emailed him.  He sent me to eBay, so I went there.
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder sometimes if the person I wound up buying 3d from was him.  :)
01:42 <GodTodd> could be :D
01:42 <GodTodd> how much did that one cost you?
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> $6, they were cheap off ebay
01:42 <GodTodd> after shipping?
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> I bought 2 of them, one of them is safe in the closet, one in the car
01:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, before shipping
01:42 <GodTodd> ahhhh
01:42 <GodTodd> ok
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> but no climbin' the walls, and very little to be found on opennap :(
01:43 <GodTodd> usually with a cd like that...i'll copy it and keep the original put WAY away ;)
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> for that matter, you're going to have to rip the Souls at Zero one and upload it to my server
01:43 <GodTodd> sure
01:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'll probably be putting it back again, I had pulled it out because I didn't have a working burner at the time ad my last burned copy went kaput
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> so I should probably rip it and put it away again...
01:44 <GodTodd> yep
01:44 <GodTodd> when you have young kids around it's the safest way to go
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> good opportunity to make sure my spare is still safe.  :)
01:44 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
01:44 <Lucifer_arma> I know that's true
01:44 <GodTodd> tommy went through a 'break the cd for the hell of it' phase
01:45 <GodTodd> had to go through amazon to replace my kicking harold cd after that :/
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> they all do that.  :)  Julian figured out how to take the tape out of vhs tapes
01:45 <GodTodd> that's part of childhood :)
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> yep.  I did it too....  :)
01:45 <Lucifer_arma> only I did it to 8 tracks
01:45 <GodTodd> i don't let tommy have originals of his dvds either
01:46 <GodTodd> my burner has paid for itself in saved discs
01:46 <GodTodd> heh
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, *I* put everything up on high shelves, and figure when the kids are big enough to reach them, they're old enough to take care of them
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> but my wife takes them down and leaves them out where the kids can get them.
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> so I tend to hide the really important stuff
01:46 <GodTodd> i don't have a lot of high shelves
01:46 <GodTodd> heh
01:46 <Lucifer_arma> like the pre-editing Star Wars trilogy which my wife's not allowed to take out without permission :)
01:47 <GodTodd> come to think of it...karen doesn't mess with the discs much
01:48 <Lucifer_arma> man, I wish I'd put out the extra $100 on this laptop to get the dvd burner
01:48 <GodTodd> don't you have one on another machine?
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> no, just dvd readers
01:49 <GodTodd> ahhh
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> regular CD burners, both ont he server and on my laptop
01:49 <GodTodd> i have my dvdrw on the server upstairs
01:49 <GodTodd> my laptop is where i burn cds
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I hardly use the burner on the server anymore
01:50 <GodTodd> hell...i'm on the laptop all the time...might as well use the burner ;)
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> :)
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> hey, here's what I want in my car:
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=82a1b3a4aebb8098a251925934f891eb
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> pick one
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> forget the cd player, I want a real computer in there :)
01:52 <GodTodd> shit yeah
01:52 <GodTodd> :)
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> they sell 'em without operating systems, or with windows xp
01:53 <Lucifer_arma> save money, but it empty and throw something Truly Useful on there :)
01:53 <GodTodd> i want the 100GB one heh
01:54 <Lucifer_arma> GPS receiver + good map software = never get lost
01:54 <GodTodd> i have gps for my laptop
01:54 <GodTodd> now...would you really really need to burn dvds in your car?
01:54 <GodTodd> heh
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=166   <--- infrared camera :)
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> where's the radar attachment?
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:56 <GodTodd> heh
01:56 <Lucifer_arma> I could see burning dvds in your car
01:57 <GodTodd> hmmm
01:58 <GodTodd> Sub-Total: $1,328.95
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=152
01:58 <GodTodd> heh there's my car computer :)
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> you're buying one!?!?
01:58 <GodTodd> ummmm no
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> (buy two and send me one)
01:58 <GodTodd> i wish
01:58 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't yet managed to convince my wife I need one.  :)  Working on it, though...
01:58 <GodTodd> karen makes good money...but i think i'd be on the street there
01:58 <GodTodd> :P
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> haha
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> tell her she can make web pages for it :)
01:59 <GodTodd> i can swing the 40$ for cds....hard to explain 1300$ for a computer in the car
01:59 <GodTodd> lol
01:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah
01:59 <GodTodd> just wanted to trick it out and see what it would run :)
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> they need to make some adapters for the gauges
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> because I'd really like to tile some lcd's in my instrument cluster and replace the gauges that are there
02:01 <Lucifer_arma> then I'd like to lay some out on top and see if I can project a hud onto my windshield
02:02 <GodTodd> heh
02:02 <Lucifer_arma> so naturally I'll need an oil pressure, fuel, tach, speedometer, etc, attachments for the computer
02:02 <GodTodd> hell...they even call them 'carputers' now...:/
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> you could probably build one cheaper, now that I look more closely at it
02:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's just a mini-itx form factor
02:04 <GodTodd> http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=25_59&products_id=206&osCsid=82a1b3a4aebb8098a251925934f891eb
02:04 <GodTodd> lcd touchscreen
02:04 <GodTodd> in-dash :)
02:05 <GodTodd> errr...tft i mean
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> I saw that, it's pretty neato
02:05 <GodTodd> yah....they got it in feb and it's already out of stock
02:05 <GodTodd> :)
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> so you could just take any old computer and get one of their power supplies and start hooking it up
02:06 <GodTodd> looks like it
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> might be a tad bulky, but if you could show the damn thing would be useful (which is my problem), then it'd be well worth buying a slicker model that you ccan mount in-dash
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> besides, I'd have no problems putting the main box under the seat.  There's no law that says "electronic stuff goes in the dash"
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> put the UI components where you can reach them where it makes the msot sense, the main box under the seat
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> or in the trunk, for that matter
02:07 <GodTodd> yep
02:07 <GodTodd> and i saw a damn small case at sam's the other day
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if I've got a motherboard and case laying around that works....
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> boot time could be a problem.  ANd you need a way to signal boot
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> I've got a mini-tower I could throw in the trunk
02:09 <n54> not worried about vibrations eating away at the hd's and whatver?
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a have to think about this some more.
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> use laptop hard drives, that's what they ship with anyway
02:10 <GodTodd> it's a good idea come to think of it
02:10 <GodTodd> i have some spare parts laying around.....
02:10 <GodTodd> hmmmm
02:10 <n54> or usb thumb-drives
02:10 <Lucifer_arma> no real reason you can't just wire the power switch to something on the dash
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> n54: what sizes can you get those in?
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking you'd need at least 10GB
02:11 <Lucifer_arma> they'd help with boot time, I guess.  are they faster or slower than regular hard drives?
02:11 <n54> I bought a real cheap one with 1GB the other day, then they got more expensive (at 2GB) but not sure if they go much higher than that
02:11 <n54> they're pretty fast afaik
02:12 <n54> but might have been a badiea when you need that much more space
02:12 <n54> bad idea*
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm thinking having the thing rsync automatically at certain times of the day, when it's in range of the home network
02:13 <Lucifer_arma> backup stuff that's on the computer in the car, pull down stuff that's on the server that needs to come down
02:13 <GodTodd> fry's has up to 4GB on the flash drives
02:13 <n54> #g 300 NOK to USD
02:13 <armabot> n54: 300 Norwegian kroner = 49.0404 U.S. dollars
02:14 <n54> it was around 50 USD then (but remeber everything is very expensive in norway)
02:14 <GodTodd> 130$ for the cheapest 4GB
02:15 <n54> 130 for 4GB sounds good
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't.  :)  $30 for 20GB in a laptop drive :)
02:16 <n54> but if laptop hd's survive the driving then... :)
02:16 <n54> yes
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> dude, I drove my laptop to school every day this past semester, it survived just fine
02:16 <n54> well was it on?
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not really
02:16 <n54> ;)
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> but people drive with their laptops on all the time, take them on airplanes, all sorts of stuff
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> buses, trains, etc.
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> boats
02:17 <n54> but if they ship the ready-made ones with laptop hd's it should be ok
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02:17 <Lucifer_arma> I also have an LCD laying around
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's not a touch screen, but I cannibalized my last laptop when it broke.
02:17 <n54> :)
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> I could probably adapt most of it to mount in a car....
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> so really I just need the power supply and the core computer, and probably a minor investment in small parts to wire it all up
02:20  * Lucifer_arma thinks he'll sit on it for awhile and see what else presents itself
02:20  * n54 hopes he didn't scare GodTodd away or anything like that
02:20 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be something I have to build off the car first, get all the software together and working.  I can put it in my celica with no resistance from my wife.  :)
02:20 <n54> :)
02:21 <GodTodd> nah i'm here
02:21 <n54> good :)
02:21 <GodTodd> hey...i have two broken laptops i could cannibalize
02:21 <GodTodd> :D
02:22 <GodTodd> i think the drives are still in them too
02:22 <GodTodd> hmmmm
02:24 <GodTodd> wow...fry's rapes you on laptop drives
02:24 <GodTodd> heh
02:25 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
02:29 <z-man> #morning
02:29 <armabot> Good Morning z-man! Random Fortune:  You are a bundle of energy, always on the go.
02:29 <n54> morning :)
02:29 <z-man> armabot works! hooray!
02:30 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft I didn't get your restart story from the logs, but if the server restarted although players were online, it probably has to do with the false player count bug that's now fixed. I'll check that.
02:30 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
02:30  * z-man kisses armabot
02:30 <n54> hehe
02:33 <GodTodd> man...i grew up on cassette tapes and VHS....now i have mostly cds, dvds and two dvd recorders.....technology rules :D
02:33 <GodTodd> heh
02:34 <z-man> #later tell wrtlprnft Nope, the auto restart code uses an unaffected user counting function. Could you post the details of the incident on the forum?
02:34 <armabot> z-man: The operation succeeded.
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03:01 <Lucifer_arma> told you armabot was a girl
03:06 <GodTodd> haven't made her a woman yet, eh? ;)
03:06 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000310056201/
03:07 <n54> lol GodTodd
03:09 <n54> cool link
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> I have a power inverter, so powering the thing isn't a problem
03:10 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, my choice was "buy a special adapter for my laptop for a cigarette lighter" or "power inverter", and predictably I went with the portable solution
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> jeez.  The more doable this project looks, the more I worry about my grades
03:11 <n54> :)
03:11  * Lucifer_arma goes to dig up his power inverter and look at it
03:13 <n54> not looking to start a flame war or anything like that --just curious-- what do you think of the immigration debacle in the us Lucifer?
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to wait until daylight to dig this stuff up.  I'll dig out the tore-down laptop then too.
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> um, n54, I'm not happy about it, to say the least.
03:17 <n54> in what way?
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> I don't like the fundamental attitude that illegal immigrants should be given amnesty so they can keep doing the jobs americans are "too proud to do"
03:18 <n54> ok
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> I think that attitude is racism, pure and simple, and there's no reason I can think of that it should be a guiding principle for lawmakers
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> if I had my way, we'd string up every lawmaker that approved immigrant legislation on that basis
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> what we actually do about the illegal immigrants I'm mostly ambivalent.  I don't want to just ship them back, but neither do I want them to keep living here illegally
03:19 <n54> I can see your racism point, I don't agree but I can see it
03:19 <n54> yeah I can agree on that, needs some middle ground
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, the flip side is that I've been the American that was not only willing to do those jobs, but had to compete for some really shitty wages just to pay the rent.
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> fact is, illegal immigrants work for cheaper.  Part of it's willingness, their standard of living is higher anyway than it was where they fled from.
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> Part of it's exploitation.
03:20 <n54> yeah I buy that argument
03:20 <n54> I'm closer to Bush's stand but yeah
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> so we need to get htem into the system and protected by minimum wage and other labor laws first.
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> or we need to ship them back to where they came from, which I don't really like as a solution.
03:21 <n54> agreed, minimum wage should be higher both in america and europe
03:21 <n54> yeah no that's just impractical imo
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> Then we need to look at the real problems.  When Bush says "illegal immigrant", he means Mexican.
03:21 <n54> yeah of course
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> and we can solve most of our illegal immigration problems in Mexico.  According to Bush, invading a sovereign nation to protect american interests in the war against terror is a perfectly valid action.
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> But invading a sovereign nation to protect american economic interests at home?
03:22 <n54> well Vincente Fox is an asshole, that's for sure :) but I don't think that will be necessary :)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> I've been in favor of annexing Mexico for as long as I can remember.  :)
03:22 <n54> lol texan eh? ;)
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> he might be an asshole, but he's the closest thing Mexico has had to democracy for some time.
03:23 <n54> I know, pretty corrupt though so well...
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> the real problem is there.  Mexicans want democracy, or at least a working government that doesn't make them peasants and exploit them.
03:23 <GodTodd> the ironic thing is if they had just surrendered in the mexican american war this would be moot ;)
03:23  * n54 is in favour of letting Puerto Rico join the US btw
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> and the country is rich in resources that aren't being tapped in any reasonable manner.
03:24 <n54> yeah of course, can't blame them
03:24  * n54 has nothign against mexicans
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> say what you want about the american economy, if our practices were adopted in mexico, they'd be able to enjoy our standard of living on their own in a generation or two
03:24 <GodTodd> yep
03:24 <n54> absolutely agree
03:24 <Lucifer_arma> and that's what Vicente Fox brings to the table.  If he can pull it off, then that's great.
03:24 <n54> I doubt he can but well
03:25 <GodTodd> if he was smart he'd try to get us to teach his countrymen how to do that
03:25 <n54> as logn as they don't go "venezuela" I don't think anyone can expect too much more sadly
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> he's the first visionary type of politician to get real power in Mexico since Santa Anna, and we all know how well Santa Anna turned out...
03:26 <n54> ok not familiar with Santa Anna
03:26 <GodTodd> the Alamo
03:26 <GodTodd> :)
03:26 <n54> oh
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, remember the alamo :)
03:26 <n54> :S :)
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> he's *that* general :)
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> Mexico needs JJ.
03:27 <GodTodd> caught him with his pants down 
03:27 <GodTodd> heh
03:27 <n54> JJ?
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> JJ is a guy I worked with at the junkyard.  He was an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was wanted by the authorities there.
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> Wanted badly, they were holding his family hostage.
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> And because of his principles, he wouldn't surrender to them.
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> Later, quite a bit later, I looked into some more recent Guatemala history, and I"ll be damned, but I think he was the former president that was ousted in the early 90s
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> by a military fascist coup
03:29 <n54> hmm well as long as it doesn't turn into another "maschismo" war leader JJ might be ok, too much bs in central america though (and south btw)
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> of course, Bush's "send them back" policy will send him back.
03:29 <n54> Bush doesn't say "send them back"
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> no, JJ wasn't like that.  He was, ummm, hard to explain.  The storybook hero type, a staunch Republican (not American Republican, republican in the sense the rest of the world uses it)
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> Bush used to say "send them back".  Don't forget, I lived here when he was governor.
03:30 <n54> hmm in europe republican usually means "against monarchy"
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> he's compromising right now.
03:30 <n54> well perhaps he wised up :)
03:30 <GodTodd> sure couldn't 'wise down'
03:30 <GodTodd> lol
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> republican = establish representative government for the people with freedom and protected human rights
03:31 <n54> ok that's not really the meaning in europe :)
03:31 <n54> for historical reasons
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> well, I couldn't find pictures of any of the past Guatemalan presidents, their families, or other politicians
03:32 <n54> civil war explains some of that
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> he might have been in a revolutionary group for all I know.  But he was rich and powerful, anyway, and the JJ I knew was the epitome of virtue.
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, that's kinda beside the point.  :)  Other than it saddens me that he's living as a refugee while his country is being run by a corrupt dictatorship.
03:34 <n54> I think that's probably a bit inaccurate; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala
03:34 <n54> it's just very tenuous afaik
03:35 <n54> but anyway thanks for the input :)
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Whenever I see "Republic of <>" in south/central america, I automatically assume fascist :)
03:37 <n54> can't blame you :)
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know when he came to the US, but I worked with him in 1998
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> which puts it after the peace deal brokered between the marxist group and the government
03:39 <n54> yeah, sorry to say it but sounds like he was a commie :)
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> you did see the part about "corruption is still rampant at all levels of government", right?
03:40 <n54> yup
03:40 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAE48.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't speak enough spanish and he didn't speak enough english for us to get involved in heavy-duty political discussions
03:40 <n54> doesn't matter anyway
03:41 <guru3> back
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> not really.  Lots of good people have been communist.  :)
03:41 <guru3> 2 more exams
03:41 <n54> yes absolutely, although I abhor the ideology
03:41 <n54> hi guru3 :)
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> so yeah, if I were calling the shots, we'd blame Mexico for our immigration problems and demand they fix their own problems.
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> We'd say stuff like "neighbors have to put up with each other throwing trash out in their own yards"
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> and the CIA would be working up a few operations to change out the government and stuff like that
03:42 <n54> well you know, they aren't able to and/or lack the will
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> if invasion is what's required to fix the problem, then that's what we should do
03:42 <n54> lol now that would cause democrats to go ballistic :D
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> it's not just our problem, and in this case I feel pretty confident most Mexicans would welcome us.
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> They wouldn't want us to stay for very long, just long enough for them to get situated and hang a few leaders.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> then good trade partners, and we're done.  Take about 50 years for the dust to settle, of course.
03:44 <n54> mm well I think I prefer Bush's middle ground but differences makes the world go around :)
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> maybe happen faster, depending on how clean we kept our noses, so another debacle just like Iraq would cause more problems than it solved.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> the only difference that I see between going into Mexico and going into Iraq is that the terrorist card can't be played in Mexico
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, it's the same situation.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> why support a war in Iraq and not a war in Mexico?  :)
03:45 <n54> nimo but that's ok by me
03:46 <n54> to me they're entirely different situations
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03:47 <n54> and I think you should be happy they're mexicans who all things said and done are fairly close to you culturally
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, we didn't have half a million Iraqis illegally entering our country every year and driving down wages in Texas for the people most vulnerable to such things
03:47 <n54> 200000+ mexicans weren't slaughtered yearly either
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> um, maybe you should see Texas.  :)  Mexicans aren't as close to us culturally as you might think.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> No, they just die of other preventable things
03:48 <n54> compare it to europe and you'll see my point :)
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> things that aren't prevented because the government blahblah (didn't I mention them already?)
03:48 <n54> I did at least ;)
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know europe well enough to make that comparison.  But I know a great deal about Mexican culture and have adopted a fair amount of it for myself.
03:48 <n54> you're making my point there :)
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'm ot typical
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> typical white Texan hates Mexicans just for being mexican
03:49  * n54 isn't anti-islam, just anti-islamism and anti-idiotarian
03:49 <n54> yeah that's plain racism imo
03:49 <n54> i.e plain stupid
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.....  and?  Welcome to America.
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> Land of the free white people, and home of the dead braves.
03:50 <n54> got a hint for you; people are people everywhere, and nowhere is there any kind of shortage on idiocy :)
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  :)  My point is that the cultures haven't mixed very much.
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> Some areas have mixed more than others, California does a lot better in general, for example.
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> In El Paso, you get treated like shit for being white.  Mexican majority there.
03:51 <n54> yeah I'm not really saying they are, just that they're a hell of a lot closer than the situation many other places
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and a lot more important, imo.  Mexico's got plenty of oil...
03:52 <n54> not surprised about El Paso as racism isn't the domain of whites only (sorry for the extremely bad pun)
03:52 <n54> fuck oil
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> Mexico's also got lots of arable land, uranium (iirc), and other stuff.
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> Hell, if Mexico was part of the US, we'd be able to wage war against the whole rest of the world with a reasonable expectation of winning.
03:53 <n54> everybody (including the oil companies) except for moonbats know oil is not the future
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> actually, Mexico is still struggling with a racist system they inherited from Spain.
03:54 <n54> yes Spain always had/has a brown streak
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> where basically, the less spanish blood in you and the more native blood, the more peasant you are.
03:55 <n54> as in facist (not sure iof the color brown is associated with facism in the us)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> The more spanish blood, the higher in the aristocracy you're likely to be found.
03:55 <n54> yeah I know, it's much the same down all central and south america
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  Brown is associated with Mexico :)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is.
03:56 <n54> the fascism/communism dualism in too much of the americas is what I kind of refrred to earlier by saying "machismo" bs
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, somewhat ontopic, why doesn't Mexico have an olympic team?
03:56 <n54> they don't?
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> no, of course not.  Every Mexican that can run, jump, or swim is already in the US.
03:56 <n54> :P
03:56 <n54> :)
03:57 <GodTodd> old joke, luci :P
03:57 <GodTodd> heh
03:58  * n54 kinda hates that kind of jokes unless it's about swedes... XD
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> haha
03:58 <n54> and even then they're rarely good :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> I told that joke to JJ, through an interpreter
03:58 <n54> it's mutual so it's ok :)
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> he laughed for days :)
03:58 <n54> :)
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> so did the interpreter, for that matter.  He was naturalized, moved here from Durango.
03:59 <n54> :)
03:59  * GodTodd hates white people.
03:59  * Lucifer_arma has done some circulating among the class of people in the discussion
03:59 <n54> lol GodTodd
03:59 <Lucifer_arma> shut up peckerwood
03:59 <GodTodd> kill all the white people ;)
04:00  * n54 doesn't get why GodTodd wan'ts to kill him
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> he hates white protestants
04:00 <GodTodd> as long as i start in a ripple, you have nothing to worry about....i bet i'm whiter than you lol
04:00  * n54 doesn't get why he want's to kill my mom
04:00 <n54> sorry for all the typos
04:00 <Lucifer_arma> (I'd have said Anglo-Saxon, but you're not anglo or saxon)
04:01 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  Probably not, GodTodd 
04:01  * n54 is almost transparent soon - you might be right :)
04:01 <Lucifer_arma> people in scandinavia are damned white
04:01 <GodTodd> ummm...i've got much scandanavian blood
04:01 <GodTodd> heh
04:02  * Lucifer_arma celebrates his Italian heritage
04:02 <GodTodd> tho the german might cancel it out
04:02 <GodTodd> after all i CAN tan
04:02 <GodTodd> :D
04:02 <n54> hehe so can most up here :)
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I can tan, but for some reason I can't burn anymore.
04:02 <n54> I used to be fairly brown when I lived in Singapore
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> used to be able to burn, but ever since I rubbed myself on the street @20mph, I can't burn anymore
04:03 <n54> /s/brown/tanned
04:03 <GodTodd> that would do it, luci :P
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've got to get to bed.  Need to wake up early to inventory my computer parts, then go see the notary yadayada
04:03 <n54> cya
04:04 <GodTodd> i have to be up by 6:30
04:04 <GodTodd> :/
04:05 <n54> guru3:  how did the exam go?
04:05 <n54> hmm almost no point sleeping GodTodd?
04:05 <GodTodd> i know
04:06  * n54 hates when that happens to him
04:06 <GodTodd> time has a way of getting away from me
04:06 <GodTodd> heh
04:07 <n54> :)
04:09 <guru3> not bad n54 
04:09 <n54> ah good, was it chemistry?
04:09 <guru3> yes
04:09 <n54> :D
04:09 <n54> only spanish left then?
04:11 <guru3> yup
04:12 <n54> muy bien! :)
04:12 <guru3> si senor
04:31 <z-man> This one probably is of interest to everyone here: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3469
04:34 <n54> smart, sounds good to me
04:54 <guru3> oh my that's long
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04:55 <n54> what's long?
04:56 <guru3> the post
04:57 <n54> hmm  thought it concise and to the point :)
04:58 <n54> but I didn't notice _evil_ triumvirate until now hehe :D
05:00 <guru3> heh
05:00 <n54> :)
05:00 <guru3> i thought it was simply going to be 'btw, here's lucifer'
05:00 <guru3> ><
05:01 <n54> :)
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05:04 <z-man> Darn, forgot the "Don't worry, I mande him promise not to eat you" bit.
05:04 <z-man> made
05:04 <guru3> x)
05:05 <n54> :D
05:06 <z-man> yeah, my announcement posts tend to get a bit long, sorry about that. Thought I'd explain exactly what we're up to.
05:06 <n54> I think most will find it explanatory, people like me who are more or less clueless :)
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05:08 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
05:09 <guru3> :D
05:12 <n54> :)
06:31 <n54> middle of the day and I'm dead tired *gives up and goes to sleep* :| cya all :)
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07:43 <wrtlprnft> nice choice :) Although as long as z-man-work and guru3 agree, Lucifer has no chance anyways, it seems
07:44 <guru3> lol
07:45 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: huh? no, the server restarted because I said /admmin quit
07:45 <wrtlprnft> It was a surprise for the guy who bluffed to be admin, he wasn't
07:45 <wrtlprnft> and the logs i uploaded don't contain that
07:49 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: ah, I thought you wanted to report a bug :)
07:50 <z-man-work> and that send me on wild speculations.
07:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, sorry for wasting your time
07:51 <wrtlprnft> i said, imagine HIS surprise, which means i wasn't surprised at all
07:52 <wrtlprnft> i still have to figure out what to make out of this engine post of you... i have nothing to say to it, and neither does anyone else... I'm happy if it works, but i have no clue about the engine anyways
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07:55 <z-man-work> yeah, I thought the silence was a sign of baffledness :) Maybe I'll manage to make a simplified followup post.
07:56 <wrtlprnft> don't worry, i read it all, but i don't know what's best since i have absolutely no experience with that code
07:56 <wrtlprnft> I'll be happy if i undestand sensors one day for the HUD#
08:25 -!- xTs [n=none@p54B17C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
08:25 <xTs> hi
08:25 <xTs> is there a static linked version of armagetronad somewhere?
08:32 <guru3> not that i know of
08:32 <guru3> theoretically possible to compiled i think
08:33 <xTs> would be nice, because the autoconfig-thingy doesn't work everywhere
08:35 <guru3> the regular configure script?
08:37 <xTs> does not work where headers are missing
08:37 <guru3> that's... odd
08:37 <guru3> a precompiled with dynamic libraries?
08:38 <xTs> won't work either. missing libSDL_image
08:38 <z-man-work> xTs: of course it fails if headers are missing; compilation would fail then, too.
08:38 <guru3> i think that comes under the heading of 'bad luck'
08:38 <xTs> compiling libSDL wont get it to work
08:39 <z-man-work> isn't it enough to install all the _devel packages to SDL, SDL_image and that?
08:40 <z-man-work> The closest we have to a statically linked version are the autopackages. They contain libxml2 already.
08:41 <z-man-work> But wherever I was until now, compiling SDL/SDL_image and installing them from source always made compilation of AA work...
08:41 <z-man-work> What are your specifics, xTs? System type, distribution, all that.
08:43 <xTs> fedora i think
08:43 <xTs> core 4
08:43 <z-man-work> The autopackage should work there, and the rpm, too. Tested it with
08:43 <xTs> pentium 4, 1GB RAM
08:43 <xTs> well, as user you can just unpack the rpm
08:44 <z-man-work> can't?
08:44 <xTs> can
08:44 <xTs> but installation is prohibited ;)
08:44 <z-man-work> ok :)
08:44 <z-man-work> but the autopackage supports per-user installation.
08:45 <xTs> i know
08:45 <z-man-work> you just have to remember to pass it the -t flag, or it will crash later in the installation
08:45 <xTs> but it throws an error ;)
08:45 <z-man-work> even with -t?
08:46 <xTs> what does -t?
08:46 <z-man-work> text mode installation
08:50 <xTs> hm, have to leave
08:50 <xTs> bye bye
08:50 -!- xTs [n=none@p54B17C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #armagetron ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!"]
08:50 <guru3> Oo
08:50  * z-man-work wonders if that means it didn't work
08:51 <guru3> i dunno im slightly confused
08:51 <guru3> what keeps the auto installer thing from working anyway?
08:51 <z-man-work> That most distris don't install headers for libraries.
08:52 <guru3> the installer?
08:52 <z-man-work> so you can use them in compiled programs, but you can't compile a program that uses them
08:52 <guru3> replace auto installer with autopackage
08:52 <guru3> the thing you have to use -t on
08:52 <guru3> what keeps it from working without -t
08:52 <z-man-work> Some unknown crash
08:53 <guru3> hmm ok
08:53 <guru3> maybe we can put it in a wrapper to automatically use -t?
08:53 <z-man-work> Hmm
08:53 <guru3> i think i can write one in shell
08:53 <guru3> at least i've seen it done
08:56 <z-man-work> we could try to simply hack the .autopackage script, it seems to transfer control to the installer, passing all the flags
08:56 <z-man-work>     "$meta_dir/apkg-installer" "$@"
08:56 <z-man-work> change that to
08:56 <z-man-work>     "$meta_dir/apkg-installer" -t "$@"
08:56 <z-man-work> and maybe we're done
08:57 <guru3> that would be good
08:58 <z-man-work> seems to work
08:58 <guru3> great
08:58 <z-man-work> I was afraid it would trigger the MD5 check, but that's not run on the entire script, only the payload
08:59 <z-man-work> Of course, whith this hack in place, the user can't install it in graphical mode any more.
09:00 <z-man-work> But that doesn't work on Ubuntu 5.10, FC4 and SuSE 9.1 anyway
09:00 <z-man-work> Lucifer has one system where it does work :)
09:01 <z-man-work> Aww, anyway, I'll just integrate this little hack in our release system. Should be ready for
09:02 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
09:05 <guru3> cool
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--- Log closed Fri May 19 11:05:21 2006
--- Log opened Fri May 19 11:11:49 2006
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12:18 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> hi all
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> did you miss me?
12:18 <SuPeRTaRD> ;p
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> hi
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> found my power inverter :)
12:36 <z-man-work> I didn't know you could invert power...
12:37 <Lucifer_arma> 12VDC to 115VAC, 60hz
12:37 <Lucifer_arma> it plugs into a cigarette lighter and gives you a regular house-like plug :)
12:37  * z-man-work wonders why that's not called CONverter
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> if I knew slightly more about electronics than I know, I could answer that for you
12:38 <z-man-work> heh
12:38 <z-man-work> morning, btw, and hi tard.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> morning
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> I need a box to put all this stuff in.  :)
12:38 <z-man-work> Umm, no, SuPeRTaRD, I didn't miss you very much to be honest, but good to see you anyway :)
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> hard to miss someone when you know they'll be back soon, eh?  ;)
12:41 <z-man-work> I thought all we know is that they all do come back, but not when.
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> supertard's different, he says he won't be back for awhile and then you see him next week
12:41 <Lucifer_arma> basically it's usually opposite the time estimate he gives you.  :)
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> awww, man.  My thinkpad didn't have a touchpad
12:43 <z-man-work> Only a nipple?
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
12:43 <Lucifer_arma> not a good ui to consider while driving
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> I was hoping I might find a pinout for the keyboard and see if I could build a little case for it :)
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> not a biggie, plenty of ps/2 keyboards and pointer devices, the LCD is the important thing here
12:45 <z-man-work> How about a touchscreen? It should be possible to retrofit a crude one.
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> it would also be particularly nice if I could use this cd drive, it's pretty thin
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> I'd love a touchscreen.
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> but it's a "no money" sort of project.  I can buy little electronic parts needed to wire stuff up, but the big parts that cost real money I have to scrape from spares
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> but I saved my broken laptop for exactly this sort of hair-brained scheme.  :)
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12:56 <guru3> what sort of scheme?
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://store.earthlcd.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.223/.f
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> car computer
12:57 <guru3> heh
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> I saw a webpage awhile back that described how to make a regular vga plug for the lcd from the laptop.  can't seem to find it now...
12:57 <guru3> gotcha
12:57 <guru3> cool
12:57 <guru3> share the link if/when you find it :P
12:59 <guru3> i'm looking into running mysqld from its own dir so i can have more than one on my server to test the clustering
13:08 <guru3> or i'll look at it later
13:19 <GodTodd> anyone have any idea as to the possible collectability of a Green Jello cd?
13:19 <GodTodd> heh
13:19 <guru3> Oo
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> I hear the ones that said Jello are wroth a lot of money, actually
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> and very very rare
13:19 <GodTodd> hmmmm
13:20 <GodTodd> i have one that's in really good condition
13:20 <z-man-work> Jello or Jelly?
13:20 <z-man-work> I only got Green Jelly :)
13:21 <GodTodd> no...it's jello
13:21 <GodTodd> :D
13:21 <GodTodd> bought it when it first came out
13:22 <GodTodd> somehow it was like the only cd that ended up at my mom's house that DIDN'T get its jewel case smashed to a pulp
13:22 <GodTodd> heh
13:23 <GodTodd> not that i really want to sell it (or need to for that matter) just would be cool to know if i'm sitting on some real cash
13:23 <GodTodd> :D
13:28 <z-man-work> Well, misprints/first editions that were changed later for weird reasons always are kind of valuable
13:29 <z-man-work> I'd say to look it up on ebay, but probalby the sale of them is prohibited there.
13:30 <GodTodd> nah...i'm tracking a few now....not as high as i'd like to see ;)
13:32 <GodTodd> hmmm...i also have a 24 carat gold Dark Side of the Moon...
13:32 <GodTodd> think that was 25$ new
13:32  * GodTodd is going through his cds since he is anxiously awaiting his wrathchild cds
13:32 <GodTodd> heh
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> why do I never bookmark neat pages?  I have nothing but crap, I swear.
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> Something that tells me how to wire a car stereo to a power supply, for example.
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> but why didn't I bookmark that lcd page that told me how to stick a vga connector on my thinkpad's lcd?  :(
13:35 <GodTodd> i got tired of that myself...so if anything i OVERbookmark now
13:35 <GodTodd> :)
13:51 <GodTodd> looking for something like this, luci: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/using_a_laptop_lcd_with_a_vga.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
13:51 <GodTodd> obviously not that one specifically because they haven't yet posted how they did it
13:51 <GodTodd> :/
14:00 <guru3> looks really not promising
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14:11 <GodTodd> blergle
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> except right now I'm off to finish my residency chore.  Just went with my neighbor to notarize the letter.  :)
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> its called an inverter cuz DC was born first
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> an earlier invention
14:28 <SuPeRTaRD> alternating current is alien technology
14:29 <SuPeRTaRD> anyone know: torque/torquescript, C++, C#, Python, Java
14:29 <SuPeRTaRD> & want to work on an indie game with me?
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> and some other peeps
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> if it sells we'll get paid
14:30 <SuPeRTaRD> its got a badass concept & stuff 4 publishers have shown interest
14:32 <SuPeRTaRD> anyways, if anyoene wants to program some insectoid civilization meets rpg meets pikmin  typa game goto #zeolite
14:32 <SuPeRTaRD> blah
14:33 <SuPeRTaRD> just kidding about the inverter,..   i think its cuz it combines 2 positives into 1 positive 1 negative dc..    on ac the current switches in a sine wave really fast
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> speed of light or so\
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> mebbe thats nto right
14:34  * SuPeRTaRD shrugs
14:34 <SuPeRTaRD> 2 become 1  = inverter
14:35 <SuPeRTaRD> electricity is a hoax!   it should be called magnetricity       most testing equipment only mesure the positive side
14:36 <SuPeRTaRD> i tell you
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15:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: grats :)
15:22 <wrtlprnft> although, as i said to z-man and guru3 already: If the two agree you have no chance ;)
15:22 <z-man> But if Lucifer_arma and guru3 agree, I have no chance. It's mutual :)
15:23 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but until now you two did agree
15:23  * wrtlprnft has another thing to throw on his pile: a more performant wrappind algorythm
15:23 <wrtlprnft> *wrapping
15:23 <guru3> heh
15:24 <wrtlprnft> or, better, make text boxes persistent
15:24 <wrtlprnft> so you only have to re-wrap them if they change
15:24 <z-man> Yes! absolutely.
15:24 <z-man> And possibly, if the user values performance more than memory, you don't even have to re-render them
15:25 <wrtlprnft> it'll definitely be needed for real tables and stuff
15:25 <wrtlprnft> the current score table, if you use a font that doesn't have a fixed width and someone is called mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it'll be too wide and overlap with the score
15:26 <wrtlprnft> and wrapping long words is a mess as well
15:27 <wrtlprnft> what about leaving rTextField as it is, but making a rTextBox? Things that frequently change and don't need wrapping and colors and stuff can be redrawn completely every frame
15:27 <wrtlprnft> so rTextFied would not have wrapping, but rTextBox would
15:36 <z-man> Fine by me.
15:38 <wrtlprnft> any better name maybe?
15:38 <wrtlprnft> TextArea would be more HTML- like
15:39 <z-man> Box is fine, it says clearly that it has boundaries
15:39 <z-man> Isn't a text area some place where you enter text in html?
15:39 <guru3> yes
15:40 <wrtlprnft> yes it is
15:40 <z-man> Well, TextBox would only display it. I'd say box fits better.
15:40 <wrtlprnft> i was comparing it more to text area and input type="text"
15:41 <z-man> In LaTeX, areas with text/forumulas inside are all called boxes
15:41 <z-man> But it seems I'm the only one taking LaTeX as a reference for stuff here :)
15:42 <wrtlprnft> heh, my knowledge of latex is restricted to wikipedia formulas
15:42 <z-man> People get confused when I write \approx and int_a^b x^2 dx = {1\over 3}(b^3-a^3)
15:42 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: would you mind breaking the wiki again so noone can create new pages?
15:43 <z-man> Spambots on a rampage?
15:43 <wrtlprnft> yep
15:44 <wrtlprnft> rollbaclk of normal pages takes 2 clicks, deleting a new page takes 3 klicks and specifying a reason
15:47 <wrtlprnft> what annoys me is that some spam survived 18 hours
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16:05 <SKinner> anyone here speak english?
16:06 -!- SKinner [n=43227be4@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:07 <GodTodd> nope
16:09 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p5087385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:09 <wrtlprnft> not me, sorry
16:10 <wrtlprnft> don't speak it at all, not even a bit
16:11 <McSpiddles> speak what?
16:12 <wrtlprnft> english
16:12 <McSpiddles> .....
16:12 <McSpiddles> i thought that was a dead launguage
16:12 <McSpiddles> like pig latin
16:12 <wrtlprnft> this channel is all latin now
16:12 <McSpiddles> if that even was a language >.>
16:12 <wrtlprnft> english is dead
16:13 <McSpiddles> yea,and so are my english grades
16:13 <McSpiddles> :/
16:13 <wrtlprnft> oh well. you don't wanna see my french grades
16:14 <McSpiddles> they expect me to know another sub-language before you can get into college,that sucks cause i barely know english xD
16:14 <wrtlprnft> sub-language? what's that?
16:14 <McSpiddles> like
16:14 <McSpiddles> a second language
16:14 <wrtlprnft> ah ok
16:14 <wrtlprnft> so like me talking english right now?
16:15 <McSpiddles> typing!
16:15 <wrtlprnft> or would that be the second foreign language?
16:15 <McSpiddles> but yea :p
16:15 <McSpiddles> depends
16:15 <wrtlprnft> ever heard of voice recognition?
16:15 <wrtlprnft> who tells you i'm not talking to my computer and it makes text of it?
16:15 <McSpiddles> what's your main language?
16:16 <wrtlprnft> guess
16:16 <McSpiddles> german?
16:16 <wrtlprnft> tada! you're right!
16:16 <McSpiddles> then,english would be your second language :p,i think :/
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and then comes french, but je ne parle pas francais tr�s bien
16:17 <wrtlprnft> yep
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ne parle pas francais? ne parle francais pas?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> grr, see?
16:17 <McSpiddles> where's belgium at?
16:17 <wrtlprnft> at?
16:17 <McSpiddles> yea,my geography sucks
16:18 <McSpiddles> that's another thing
16:18 <wrtlprnft> uh, left of germany
16:18 <wrtlprnft> over france
16:18 <McSpiddles> the only things i'm really good at is math and science :p
16:18 <wrtlprnft> under the netherlands
16:18 <McSpiddles> k
16:18 <wrtlprnft> uh, northeast of britain
16:18 <McSpiddles> my ancestors are from belgium
16:18 <wrtlprnft> *southeast
16:18  * wrtlprnft should stick to up, down, left, right
16:19 <McSpiddles> lol!
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> English isn't a foreign language.  :)
16:36 <wrtlprnft> sure it is for me
16:36 <wrtlprnft> german isn't a foreign language
16:37 <MaZuffeR> german is my 4th language :)
16:38 <wrtlprnft> na dann...
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> I only speak german when I'm sick
16:38 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> and need to cough up a ball of mucus
16:38 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't that mean you always speak german jk
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> Belgium is in the Germany->France invasion route, you can't miss it.
16:39 <Lucifer_arma> ack, but I"m in a weird mood, heh.
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> ACC has finally recognized my Texas residence
16:40 <wrtlprnft> but only if you want to invade france you go through belgium
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> right, if you just want to trade or visit family, you go directly
16:41 <wrtlprnft> If you just want to go to the south near the ocean you're more likely to go through swizerland
16:41 <wrtlprnft> at least if you live in munich or anyplace near
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was always cheaper to just go around switzerland?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> Why?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> with a big army?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> you don't have to stop there
16:42 <wrtlprnft> not with an army
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, but you still have to go up quite a ways, don't you?
16:42 <wrtlprnft> if you have an army you go trhoug belgium, correct
16:42 <wrtlprnft> if you want to paris you go directly
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> oh, you're not talking about invasion routes then
16:43 <wrtlprnft> * to paris as a tourist
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> what I"ve always wondered, and this is probably a failing on my part, is that, um, ok.
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> We're given as one of the reasons the Soviets kept east europe to itself the fact that poland was a traditional invasion route from the west into Russia, right?
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> so they could essentially put a forward defense in poland.
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> But whenever I look at the history books, the only invasion of Russia I see from the west is Napolean, and the Russians came out of that war (and WWII, that's the other invasion) stronger than before
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> What other invasions are there that they're worried about?
16:45 <wrtlprnft> well, WW1 there was an eastern front too
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but that one was instigated by the russians, iirc.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> responding to their alliance, Russia jumped in, then Germany or Austria or somebody declared war or Russia.
16:45 <wrtlprnft> the german focused more on the west, yes
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> not the same as Napolean or Hitler formally invading Russia like they did.
16:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:46 <wrtlprnft> although, did germany ever get to russia in WWII?
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they got all the way to Moscow
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> iirc, they even occupied Moscow for a few hours
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> I could be wrong, could be that their army was stopped at Moscow
16:47 <wrtlprnft> there's two class i really suck in germany, that's french and history
16:47 <wrtlprnft> *classes
16:47 <wrtlprnft> *suck at
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, after Moscow, they pulled back to Stalingrad, and the war on the whole was decided there over the next year or so
16:47 <wrtlprnft> maybe i suck in english too, it seems
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> Hitler is first hated for killing Jews, and second hated for wiping out all the beautiful churches and other buildings in St. Petersburg (Leningrad at the time of invasion)
16:49 <wrtlprnft> at least the war ended the great depression
16:51 <guru3> good night
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> 'night guru3
16:52 <wrtlprnft> night
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> tank!  Your car just ran a red light!
16:57 <wrtlprnft> red lights?
16:58 <wrtlprnft> i don't see any lights
16:58 <wrtlprnft> just a plain street
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17:21 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/sp.php
17:21 <wrtlprnft> just got bored and copied over the MBC stats page and changed the source URL
18:18 <n54> #weather oslo, norway
18:18 <armabot> n54: Error: Could not find weather information.
18:19 <n54> #weather Oslo, Norway
18:19 <armabot> n54: Error: Could not find weather information.
18:19 <n54> #weather oslo
18:19 <armabot> n54: Temperature: 49.5°F / 9.7°C | Humidity: 99% | Pressure: 29.24in / 990.1hPa | Conditions: | Wind Direction: NNE | Wind Speed: 0mph / 0.0km/h | Updated: 12:50 AM CEST; Chance of Rain. High:53 � F. / 12 � C.; Rain. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:55 � F. / 13 � C.; Chance of Rain. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.; Chance of Rain. High:53 � F. / 12 � C.; Partly Cloudy. Low:48 � F. / 9 � C.;
18:20 <n54> guess there's a high chance of rain... :\
18:54 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
19:01 <Self_Destructo> ok, I'm here after a 11 hour work day :/
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22:32 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: Jews were not even a majority of people killed by the WW2 Holocaust
22:34 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: I think we may be developing a organization/authority style by accident-- eg, certain two people (such as Luci & I) agreeing making something definate
22:36 <n54> Luke-Jr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll
22:36 <Luke-Jr> n54: Wikipedia doesn't make facts
22:37 <n54> well it's certainly more authorative than you
22:37 <Luke-Jr> not necessarily
22:37 <Luke-Jr> in some cases, probably
22:37 <n54> sorry but it's not you who decide that
22:38 <n54> it's me :)
22:38 <Luke-Jr> but since the Jews like to bend these figures to their benefit, probably not in this case
22:39 <Luke-Jr> n54: linking a wikipedia page with likely misinformation isn't going to stand as an argument for me, so I won't even try to refute it ;)
22:40 <Luke-Jr> not that I imagine there's much to refute-- it probably just has a number
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million Jews, 10 million total, including homosexuals, generic non-germans, women, communists, etc.
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million is a majority in 10 million
22:41 <Luke-Jr> except 6 million isn't true
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> got a source?  "Luke says" has been demonstrably proven untrustworthy
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> cite or shut it
22:42 <n54> what's your point exactly Luke? you like nazis? you don't like jews? you're insane?
22:42 <Luke-Jr> I'm sure Google can find some sources for you
22:43 <Luke-Jr> I have better things to do than to prove some irrelevant point
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> google is not itself a source, and you need to provide the source since you're the one asserting the fact
22:43 <Luke-Jr> Google can *find* some sources, I said. Not that it was one.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> see?  this is why "Luke says" is untrustworthy.  Because whenever he's called on the table, he backs down and says "I don't have time for this"
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't have the time, don't do the crime.
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> I asked for a source, not a search engine.
22:43 <Luke-Jr> no crime in stating the truth
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you say it's true, you have to be prepared to back it, which you're not.  Therefore it's likely not true.
22:44 <Luke-Jr> on this matter, if you want proof, either find it for yourself, or just continue believing something wrong
22:44 <Luke-Jr> I don't care whether you believe it's true or not
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> why?  I've seen plenty of credible sources that give the numbers I gave.
22:44 <n54> well I don't care wasting more time on you luke, bye bye
22:44 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: are they all Zionist influenced?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't care what I believe, why bother chiming in?
22:45 <Luke-Jr> Anyway, I don't care. Believe what you will.
22:45 <Luke-Jr> to give the truth a voice
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> a voice without credibility is worthless, you're only undermining your truth
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> 6 million, afaik, is the "official" number, but estimates range anywhere from 5-8 million Jews.  The nazis kept good records and all, but many of them were destroyed.
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> just like the estimated death toll for the whole war is just that, an estimate, and the actual count could be higher or lower
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't really matter what the exact numbers are, unless you can cite something that is statistically significant.  It's still genocide, and it's still evil.
22:47 <Luke-Jr> I suggest you research it if you want to find the truth. Otherwise, I'm done talking about it
22:47 <Lucifer_arma>  /ignore Luke-Jr
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> oops
22:47 <n54> yeah I did the same, I have a limit
22:47 <Luke-Jr> kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I get tired of "here's the fact, research it if you don't believe me"
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> the burden of proof rests with the person asserting the fact.  That's why prosecutors have to prove guilt.  Presumption of innocence and all that.
22:48 <n54> I'm all for people having contradictary opinions but not incessant "you're wrong - I'm right"-trolling
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: if I ever assert a fact that I'm not willing to back up or back down from, just shoot me.
22:48 <Luke-Jr> #echo kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking... *back to work on svn conversion* (ps, burden of proof might lie with me if I cared for you to accept the fact, but I don't)
22:48 <armabot> kinda pointless to ignore me once I'm done talking... *back to work on svn conversion* (ps, burden of proof might lie with me if I cared for you to accept the fact, but I don't)
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #ignore Luke-Jr
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
22:49 <n54> hey we all fall into that trap once in a while lucifer, we're all human
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore Luke-Jr
22:49 <armabot> blah
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> damn, forgot the admin key
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #list admin
22:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: capability add, capability remove, channels, ignore add, ignore list, ignore remove, join, nick, and part
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore add Luke-Jr
22:49 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
22:50 <Lucifer_arma> #admin ignore list
22:50 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 'Luke-Jr!n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d'
22:50 <Luke-Jr> dumb...
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> my 7 year old has more advanced development, I think.  grrrr.
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go smoke a cigarette
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, looked into that LCD thing
22:51 <n54> good idea
22:51 <Lucifer_arma> turns out that you can't use LCD's from laptops like that.  The problem is the controller is usually integrated into the motherboard and inseparable.
22:52 <n54> oh
22:52 <n54> ah that would be the DRAM I gues
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> so it's either buy an LCD that has a controller, or buy a custom made controller for $300+
22:52 <n54> hmm wonder if it would be possible to remove the chip from the mb?
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> so the reason I was keeping this broken laptop around has expired, I'm gonna chunk it
22:53 <n54> well maybe the screen will break on another laptop?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> *if* you could figure out which parts it was, sure.  Except the controller likely has an interface that only works with the video chip set that's there.
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> has to match models.
22:53 <n54> yeah...
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> that may not be entirely true, there might be a more useful interchange, but for all practical purposes it's true.
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> if I ran a salvage shop, maybe I'd care about interchange.  :)
22:54 <n54> yeah for a quick swap it would have to be true
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> but I found my power inverter.  So I just need to work out the visual, and some other stuff.  I think I'm going to start with a UI that has no visual interface and see what I can do with it.
22:55 <n54> I once heard/saw something about people reusing motherboard components to build routers iirc - somewhat advanced I guess
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I can solder, and I can follow wiring harnesses, and occasionally read a simple circuit board.  :)  The rest is beyond my ability.
22:56 <n54> yeah, might not be worth the effort really
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, I need to justify costs is what I need to do.  if I can show it's worth putting some money into it, the money will materialize.
22:57 <n54> btw what was wrong with the laptop? I think you said but I've forgotten
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> we also do allowances, it's a good fair way to distribute discretionary money.  I can save mine up for the parts I want, and with me getting my car going that'll be a lot easier than it was last semester.
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> I *think* the motherboard was bad.
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> the hard drive definitely was bad, so I replaced it.  Then it just stopped working completely, right?  No pings, no sshd response, nothing.
22:58 <n54> old/new laptop? big/small?
22:58 <n54> hmm
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> So I sold the new hard drive out of it, and it was bad.  I got that warranteed for my customer.
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> so now I'm sitting here with a thinkpad that lacks a laptop, and can't boot.  I tried knoppix to see if the broken hard drive had something to do with it.
22:59 <n54> ok
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> the laptop was bought refurbished, it's a Thinkpad a22e.  800mhz Celeron, 256MB RAM.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> it was a nice work laptop when it worked.  Not terribly fast, true, but fine for working.  Solid keyboard, lightweight, etc.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> This compaq I've got is a sweet computer, but the keyboard'd pretty crappy and the damn thing is heavy.
23:00 <n54> perhaps you could sell it here for them to use components *doesn't know* http://www.impactcomputers.com/ibmparts-ibm-thinkpad-thinkpad-a22e-parts.html
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> I actually just went over the subject with my wife and determined I've got better things to spend my time with.  :)
23:00 <n54> or simply ebay
23:00 <n54> ok :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I wouldn't feel right throwing it on ebay without a positive diagnosis.  I'm sure enough it's a motherboard that I'd buy one if they weren't so damn expensive,
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> but not sure enough to sell it to somebody and tell them "just replace the motherboard, put a hard drive in it"
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> and I checked the market for spare parts, and there's plenty.  :)  I doubt I'd get much for it.
23:01 <n54> just say so as there might be someone out there with the same thinkpad with a faulty screen (screens break easily etc.)
23:01 <n54> ok :)
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> actually, while that's a possibility, this particular thinkpad model was notorious for having a strong screen.  :)
23:02 <n54> lol ok
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> the motherboard at thinkpadparts.com is $1000.  I found another place selling it for $345 on sale.
23:02 <n54> yikes
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's no big deal.  I was keepig it around for the screen, not intending to salvage anything else of value out of it.
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> that was the fakest sex scene I've ever seen
--- Log closed Fri May 19 23:08:34 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 00:23:37 2006
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00:33 <Lucifer_arma> yay, my spare computer fits under the seat of my car
00:33 <n54> hehe
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> it's the one I tried to host the wiki on but it kept crashing.  Yet it ran for several hours before doing so, it should be fine, provided I can get it to boot and play some music before I get to where I'm going.
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> so, I need to determine if it'll run on the 3 amp fuse that's in the cigarette lighter, or if I need to run another circuit with a 15 amp fuse (the max for the inverter)
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> I figure I'll just use a keyboard, have it boot into single-user mode, and maybe I'll write up a python app to wrap the media players.
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> know a good all-purpose command line media player?  Or will I have to chain a bunch together?
00:39  * Lucifer_arma wonders if mplayer will take keyboard input if it doesn't open a window
00:40 <n54> no idea
00:42 <n54> would it7they care if it opened a window that wasn't actually displayed?
00:42 <n54> it/they*
00:43 <n54> almost a koan...
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, no gui means I don't want to waste resources on X
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> that means most of the media players will have unsatisfied dependencies, since they ultimately depend on X
00:46 <n54> mm yeah
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> mpd looks promising
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's a music player daemon, and there's a command line client for it
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> that's very promising, all things considered
00:48 <n54> ,pg321 perhaps?
00:49 <n54> mpg*
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's mpeg only
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> need ogg vorbis, too
00:51 <n54> ok
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> see, I could write a python app to wrap mpg123 and the ogg version of it, but it'd be nice to have a bigger, more functional program that does it all
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> mpd is looking very promising, actually.  Might still need to wrap it, though.  The UI looks pretty dependent on being able to *see* it.
00:52 <n54> here's something google threw up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-testing/2005/01/msg00026.html
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I was looking through my package list.  Stopped on mpd, music123 is farther down.  :)
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> it has the advantage of being a single program, mpd might be complex to manage.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> the advantage to mpd doesn't show until I've figured out other useful apps to run without a visual interface, or put a visual interface on there
00:55 <n54> moosic and music123 looks intersting though?
00:56 <n54> http://www.nanoo.org/~daniel/moosic/
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> randomplay looks good, too
00:57 <n54> I doubt you'll have to code anything, there seems to be lots of alternatives
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> coding anything means UI only.  :)
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> I need a regular media-player like interface, where I can hit shuffle, next, previous, play, stop, and maybe that's it.
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> Volume will be handled on the CD player, so I want the mixer on the computer to always be at about 80%, maybe 100%
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> mpc doesn't appear to give me that interface, though.
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> only one way to find out
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I"ll start with music123, it looks like the simplest of the choices
01:00 <n54> did you look at the moosic page?
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> features after those basic ones are going to depend on how useful a UI can be made that has no visual feedback element
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it'll probably be the next one I look at.  It'll be the first client/server app, anyway.  :)  mpd's command line client looks like it requires a monitor
01:01 <n54> ok :)
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> music123 is out
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's only ui is control-c
01:04 <n54> ack lol
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> and if it's playing multiple songs, that just moves it to the next song
01:05 <n54> moosic at least claims to be able to do a lot more, hope it does
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> mpg123 and its family (music123 is in it) are intended to be wrapped by other applications, so they have very basic interfaces
01:06 <n54> ok
--- Log closed Sat May 20 01:11:30 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 02:46:41 2006
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02:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think I've got a serial->ps/2 adapter laying around
02:47 <Lucifer_arma> that's a neat machine, n54 :)
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I don't have a template for a python console project :(
02:49 <guru3> you can't do serial -> ps2
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> ?  maybe it's the other way then..
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> I dont' remember, haven't seen it in awhile because it's pretty useless
02:52 <Luke-Jr> guru3: why not?
02:53 <guru3> doesn't work like that
02:54 <n54> bbiaw - phonecalls
02:54 <guru3> k
02:55 <GodTodd> http://ucables.com/ref/NKCO-FMBUS <--- serial -> ps2 cable
02:56 <GodTodd> http://www.saveateagle.com/i-165.html <--- serial -> ps2 adapter
02:58 <Luke-Jr> =p
02:59  * n54 says to himself "that was quick" in dry gauntlet voice
02:59 <n54> ah so you can do serial -> ps2?
02:59 <GodTodd> of course you can....the whole mouse connecter era
03:00 <GodTodd> :)
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> a better question (read: important now :)  ), how do you read one unbuffered byte at a time from stdin in python?
03:00 <n54> yeah I kinda thought so but...
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> it's gotta be something simple...
03:00 <guru3> ps/2 -> serial ok
03:00 <guru3> but you can't do serial -> ps/2
03:00 <n54> hmm perhaps you're seeing it fro different directions?
03:01 <n54> nvm :)
03:01 <guru3> when you see serial -> ps/2
03:01 <guru3> it's for the older generation mice
03:01 <guru3> that supported both protcols
03:01 <guru3> it's not a true adapter
03:01 <n54> ok
03:02 <n54> not sure what you were asking there Lucifer
03:03 <n54> you want more inside python but only get it one at the time?
03:03 <n54> if so just do the fifo thing with lists
03:04 <guru3> g2g for a bit
03:04 <guru3> bbl
03:04 <n54> cya :)
03:06 <n54> inside python that is (but you're probably asking something more advanced)
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> what I want is to be able to press a key and have it do something right away
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> simple, right?  :)
03:11 <Lucifer_arma> I want C's getc() function
03:13 <n54> hmm like keyevent?
03:15 <n54> btw this keyboard looks nice doesn't it? although probably not for your use http://www.fentek-ind.com/rf-wireless-keyboard.htm#kbmrf100
03:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, like keyevent
03:16 <n54> hold on
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy with pygame
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> but there won't be sdl on the machine, so I can't use it
03:17 <n54> e.type== KEYDOWN;
03:17 <n54>    
03:18 <n54> ops sorry & ok no sdl
03:18 <n54> so forget the bothed example I was trying to write you ;)
03:19 <n54> botched
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> ncurses probably has the answer
03:21 <n54> or perhaps simply curses?
03:22 <n54> although I'm looking for something even simpler
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, curses
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> I was looking for something similar, but reading this page I think curses is exactly what I should use
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/curses/curses.html
03:23 <Lucifer_arma> s/similar/simpler
03:24 <n54> yeah I was browsing the py lib ref index
03:25 <n54> curses probably is the best though, couldn't find anything better at a glance
03:26 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:28 <n54> I'm sure you've read point 5 User INput in your link, that seem nice & easy
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but now my terminal is stuck with no echo
03:32 <n54> how about the same old raw_input()?
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's buffered
03:33 <n54> ok
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> I got it going, sorta.  Need to solve that minor problem, but otherwise it's working fine.  I can read what I type in the window.  :)
03:33 <n54> just out of curiosity why does it have to me unbuffered? just for speed?
03:34 <n54> be*
03:40 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870D64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> because I'll be *driving* while using this interface
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> so, it seems like the thing should have a series of like preset playlist
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> s
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> and a simple combination should add the currently playing song to a playlist
03:43 <n54> yup, moosic has that according to their site
03:43 <n54> that ability*
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> so it should be able to scan a directory tree and play all the songs there, and let you add stuff to playlists while it's playing
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> the idea being that while I'm driving I could assemble playlists.  :)
03:44 <n54> yeah but does it need to be unbuffered to do that? 
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> ack
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> you drive sometimes, right?
03:44  * n54 is probably just being thick - sorry
03:44 <n54> nope ;D
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> ah
03:45 <n54> although I know how :)
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> you've driven before?
03:45 <n54> yeah
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> ok, when you want to say "go to the next song", should it be one keypress or two?
03:45 <n54> one
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> same with play/pause/stop
03:45 <n54> yeah
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> that's why it has to be unbuffered
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> now, since it's unbuffered, there's baggage.  Key combinations I'll have to manually check for.
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> so I'll have to collect the keys into a sequence or something, and when the sequence matches a command, do something
03:46 <guru3> back
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> do that command, in fact
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, first I need to get it to play.  Worry about fancy stuff later.  :)
03:47 <n54> hold on I need to check what i did in some stuff and or if I actually used raw_input() with that or if it was a keyevent
03:49 <n54> sorry I wasn't thinking, I get you now
03:52 <n54> but you've convinced me there must/should be something else than curses, anything else seems weird to me (not that I've found it yet)
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's neat.  Has a ways to go before I put it in my car.  :)  I need to move towards my bed now.
03:57 <n54> ':)
03:57 <Lucifer_arma> I also should look around and see if I'm taking my only spare keyboard for this project.  Still, I have until the fall semester to worry about it.
03:58 <Lucifer_arma> unless something happens between now and then to give me an influx of unexpected cash (likely, the insurance company is willing to settle medical claims on the last car accident)
03:58 <n54> you ran over some old lady+
03:58 <n54> ?*
04:01  * n54 wonders if lucifer could simply use stdin
04:01 <n54> i.e. bypass raw_input()
04:05 <guru3> i so want a 770 :/
04:05 <n54> :) guru3
04:05 <n54> then you've decided+
04:06 <guru3> only my mom will probably try to talk me into something smaller & cheaper
04:06 <n54> ?*
04:06 <guru3> yeah
04:06 <guru3> you can do so much cool stuff with it
04:08 <n54> Tele2 doesn't have some ultracheap offer (with a real cheap subscription) on it or something like that?
04:09 <guru3> uh?
04:09 <guru3> it's not a phone
04:09 <n54> ooh sorry lol
04:09 <n54> it's a pda?
04:09 <guru3> tablet
04:10 <n54> I though you were aiming for either a phone or a laptop earlier
04:10 <guru3> runs linux :)
04:10 <n54> ah ok
04:10 <guru3> no
04:10 <guru3> tablet or laptop
04:10 <n54> ok :)
04:13 <n54> #help message
04:13 <armabot> n54: (message <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "later tell $1 $2".
04:14 <n54> #message Lucifer_arma take a look at this one http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/134892 as a replacement for curses
04:14 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
04:15 <n54> guru3: what's the full name of the tablet?
04:15 <guru3> Nokia 770 Internet Tablet
04:15  * n54 googles it
04:19 <n54> nice but I see the prices vary with about 400$ :o
04:20 <guru3> that's not bad
04:20 <guru3> cheaper, smaller, cooler than a laptop
04:21 <n54> I looked at froogle and 350$ is the lowest price so far
04:21 <guru3> problem is i also want a 1gb memory card
04:21 <guru3> and a bt keyboard
04:21 <n54> buy seperately?
04:22 <guru3> you have to
04:22 <n54> I dunno what the official price or ordinary shop price is
04:22 <guru3> nor do i
04:22 <guru3> but it's ok
04:22 <n54> #g USD 350 to NOK
04:22 <armabot> n54: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:22 <guru3> cause my parents have to figure that stuff out
04:23 <n54> #g 350 USD to NOK
04:23 <armabot> n54: 350 U.S. dollars = 2,135.80028 Norwegian kroner
04:23 <n54> hehe :D
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to NOK
04:23 <armabot> guru3: 400 U.S. dollars = 2,440.91461 Norwegian kroner
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to SWE
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:23 <guru3> #g 400 USD to SEK
04:23 <armabot> guru3: 400 U.S. dollars = 2,928.27912 Swedish kronor
04:23 <guru3> #help calc
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Error: That command exists in the Google and Math plugins.  Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.
04:23 <guru3> #help g, calc
04:23 <armabot> guru3: Error: There is no command "g, calc".
04:23 <guru3> i have no idea how to use the damn bot :/
04:24 <n54> #help google calc
04:24 <armabot> n54: (google calc <expression>) -- Uses Google's calculator to calculate the value of <expression>.
04:24 <guru3> #google calc 2928 * 1.15
04:24 <armabot> guru3: 2,928 * 1.15 = 3,367.2
04:24 <guru3> #google calc 2928 * 1.25
04:24 <armabot> guru3: 2,928 * 1.25 = 3,660
04:24 <guru3> meh
04:24 <n54> mind #g is an alias for #google calc
04:24 <guru3> hmm
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05:17 <McSpiddles> hm
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05:55 <guru3> g2g
05:55 <guru3> bbl
06:06 <z-man> second attempt build report: Sources are tagged, Linux and Windows builds are rolling.
06:07  * z-man pretends anyone is interested
06:12 <n54> ah, you're probably just the only dev around right now
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07:16 <Gnorty> ping
07:22 <z-man> #$%$^$ Visual C++
07:22 <z-man> I have this function that does nothing else than pass some parameter to another funciton, and VC6 manages to screw up that.
07:23 <z-man> I so hope the service pack I'm installing fixes that...
07:28 <wrtlprnft> I wonder what VC doesn't like about that template function in tXmlParser::node...
07:32 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
07:33 <z-man> VC doesn't like any templates
07:33 <z-man> It's nothing personal against you :)
07:34 <wrtlprnft> doesn't like ANY templates at all?
07:34 <z-man> Well, some work
07:34 <z-man> but only special ones
07:34 <wrtlprnft> wow
07:34 <z-man> Standard template classes work
07:34 <z-man> template<class T> class Template{}
07:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i guess so, they have to
07:35 <z-man> but that's about it
07:35 <z-man> Template member functions, sometimes
07:35 <wrtlprnft> no template functions?
07:35 <z-man> Well, look at the tString to Int/Float/whatever functions....
07:35 <z-man> They should be templates, but aren't for VisualC
07:37 <wrtlprnft> that means if i decide I want to convert a tString to a tCoord i have to edit tString to make VC6 happy? that sucks
07:38 <Gnorty> hey :)
07:38 <Gnorty> wrtl - HUD questions :)
07:39 <Gnorty> is a coloured label possible? I think you already said no, but wanted to check
07:39 <Self_Destructo> colored label?
07:40 <Gnorty> yes. a label on the hud in a arbitrary color
07:40 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes, but it's the job of the VC6 compatibility maintainer, not you :)
07:40 <wrtlprnft> uh, color codes, yes
07:40 <wrtlprnft> but yes, there should be an easier way
07:40 <Gnorty> ah. so if I did like text=0xff000Redlabel" it would work?
07:40 <z-man> and the compatibility maintainer is about to give up and force everyone to switch to vc8 :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> it should, yes
07:41 <Gnorty> that is good enough for me, thanks :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> look at the scores label in the default HUD ;)
07:41 <Gnorty> also the wiki could use a tutorial on tables :)
07:41 <wrtlprnft> uh, tutorial?
07:41 <wrtlprnft> what's so hard about it?
07:42 <Gnorty> aye, the HUD tutorial on the wiki ignores tables at present
07:42 <wrtlprnft> a table has rows and coloumns, that's about it
07:42 <wrtlprnft> oh, does it?
07:42 <Gnorty> but the data_source is tricky to work out
07:42 <wrtlprnft> data_source
07:42 <wrtlprnft> ?
07:43 <Gnorty> erm, my bad
07:43 <Gnorty> I meant to say AtomicData Source
07:43 <z-man> GRRR, The service pack didn't fix the error.
07:44 <Gnorty> not too hard, I figured it eventually, but still...
07:44 <z-man> That's it, VC6 is history.
07:44 <wrtlprnft> ?
07:44 <wrtlprnft> what was the last thing to get you to do it?
07:44 <z-man> Well, what can we do with a compiler that can't even generate a simple wrapper function?
07:45 <wrtlprnft> i don't really care, the fact that we offer two windows build seems to confuse people anyways
07:45 <Gnorty> I have to go shopping :(  see you later
07:45 <z-man> Yes, that's another point
07:45 <wrtlprnft> write assembly language instead!
07:45 <wrtlprnft> so the compiler doesn't need to worry about it
07:45 <z-man> haha
08:21 <guru3> back
--- Log closed Sat May 20 08:43:44 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 09:21:53 2006
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09:26  * McSpiddles trips wrtlprnft 
--- Log closed Sat May 20 09:30:07 2006
--- Log opened Sat May 20 09:30:29 2006
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09:30 <Gnorty> http://gnorty.is-a-geek.com/images/screenshot_64.png
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09:32 <Gnorty> I would reduce the text size on the speed/brake guages and add captions, but I am happy with how it is
--- Log closed Sat May 20 09:43:51 2006
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18:00 <n54> so I posted at one and I'm supposed to see it in the other right?
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20:51 <wrtlprnft> hi :)
20:52 <wrtlprnft> why is my internet connection down more often than it is up? i get disconnected all the time...
20:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034191227.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:54 <wrtlprnft> hi, bye i guess
20:56 <wrtlprnft> uh, sh***, i guess we missed the spoon match against AW... i was away
21:17 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090BAC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:24  * McSpiddles sighs
21:25 <McSpiddles> i spent over 3 hours configuring a mysql db,installing/setting up a phpbb2 forum and finishing a webpage :|
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22:18 -!- Netsplit clarke.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: wejp, guru3, deja_vu, SuPeRTaRD
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22:34  * Lucifer_arma is back.
22:35 <n54> hey did you see the alternatie to curses in python I messaged you?
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I did.  But I thought about it some more.  :)
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> Curses is for serial terminal text-based interfaces, right?
22:37 <Lucifer_arma> when I get one of those 2/4-line LCDs, what is it, exactly?
22:37 <n54> hmM
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm thinking the curses UI I build now should remain, and I"ll add graphical elements at some point when I get one of those LCDs.
22:38 <n54> might be more like any display
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> When I hook up an LCD to the regular video out, then I'll look at SDL or something and *keep* the curses UI going.
22:38 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: what about the match today?
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> I might have to change how I poll for input, though.
22:39 <n54> they had regular video out? I thought it was usb and something else like perhaps serial
22:39 <McSpiddles> eh?
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> I did the last hardware test I could and actually hooked it up in the car.  Works, but no software.  So the remaining work to be done is software.  :)
22:39 <n54> :)
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, the computer has several types of video outs...
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> the lcd screens tank linked to are serial connections
22:39 <McSpiddles> what time is it wrtl?
22:40 <n54> ah ok
22:40 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: uh, it was supposed to happen 2 hours 40 mins ago
22:40 <McSpiddles> well fuck
22:40 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't there and hoped you guys would get it running...
22:40 <McSpiddles> i've been busy,plus putting up with a girlfriend that's outta her goddamn mind
22:41 <McSpiddles> so i been pretty much tied up
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> freaky girl
22:41 <wrtlprnft> screw girlfriends ;)
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> I like that
22:41 <McSpiddles> freaky,no
22:41 <n54> psycho = !good
22:41 <McSpiddles> steal your heart then break it,yes :|
22:41 <McSpiddles> like 3 times :/
22:41 <Lucifer_arma> well, the first time was a mistake.  The second time ws stupid.  I won't even try to suggest what the third time was.
22:42 <McSpiddles> hard to explain
22:42 <n54> love
22:42 <McSpiddles> yea :/
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: ok,if this is melanie,you can pm when you're not outta your goddamn mind 
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: ...
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: ....
22:42 <McSpiddles> BUZZ!!!
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: 
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: if you're melanie,when was the last time we talked,besides today
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: Thursday
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: lmfao
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: When I was babysitting for my dad...my dad got on my comp. account the other night 
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: your number is 642-9348
22:42 <McSpiddles> melanie: I think lol
22:42 <McSpiddles> spidey: you wasn't babysitting thursday
22:43 <McSpiddles> spidey: we didn't even talk thursday
22:43 <McSpiddles> spidey: 
22:43 <McSpiddles> i'm thinking about taking someones advice,for those few months i didn't talk to you,there wasn't i day i didn't think about you,when i was in town i hoped i'd see you at one of the stores we was going to,it maybe just the ages difference that i let get to me,or maybe i actually was in love with you,who knows,i'll bbl
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, quit dating 12-year olds
22:43 <McSpiddles> 12?
22:43 <wrtlprnft> yay! my logs rotated!
22:43 <McSpiddles> she's 19...
22:43 <wrtlprnft> finally i can stop dealing with 150MB log files
22:44 <wrtlprnft> uh, well, on the server they did, on my laptop they did not :(
22:45 <McSpiddles> wrtl,did we forfiet or play it out?
22:45 <wrtlprnft> i have no clue
22:45 <McSpiddles> and next time make armabot tell me
22:45 <wrtlprnft> not seen an aw
22:45 <McSpiddles> i wasn't aware the match was even rescheduled
22:45 <wrtlprnft> uh, i sent you an armabot message
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh, well I don't know what to tell you spidey.  One of my personl requirements for women has always been decisiveness.  I don't do this Ross Perot Romance bullshit.  Either you're in, or you're not, and I don't give second chances without a really damn good reason.
22:45  * wrtlprnft blames Lucifer_arma and his bot ;)
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> I definitely don't give third chances.
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes spidey
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I have no notes for that nick.
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I currently have notes waiting for guru3.
22:46  * Lucifer_arma blames the fact that spidey uses so many different nicknames.
22:46 <McSpiddles> well,i lost count of the number of chances,3 was a random number
22:46 <wrtlprnft> uh, they got reset?
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #notes guru3 
22:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Sent 4 hours and 40 minutes ago: <n54> in the new forums visited posts aren't flagged as having been visited after you've read them, big usability issue there :S
22:46 <n54> yay for Lucifer! :D ross perot romance... lol XD
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I didn't see anything that looked current.  Sorry if anything disappeared...  :(
22:47 <McSpiddles> forums,blah
22:47 <n54> #notes
22:47 <armabot> n54: I currently have notes waiting for guru3.
22:47 <wrtlprnft> probably i didn't send the note to McSpiddles but to spidey
22:47 <n54> good
22:47 <McSpiddles> phpbb2 was a bitch to install,the mysql was all fucked up
22:47 <McSpiddles> http://fallinangels.no-ip.biz/
22:47 <wrtlprnft> and then they disappeared when you reset them...
22:47 <McSpiddles> but i got the site some done and the forums set up
22:48 <wrtlprnft> echo "dev-lang/php apache2" >> /etc/portage/package.use && emerge apache2 php mysql
22:48 <wrtlprnft> that's about it for setting up those 3 :D
22:50 <wrtlprnft> uh, i think you have to add mysql to the USE flags too, but maybe it's default
22:51 <n54> 30-0= <-- a moose from the front
22:51 <n54> 30-8= <-- a moose from the back 
22:51 <n54> :D
22:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell guru3 is it intended that the smiley on the forums (in the description of the "Welcome" forum) is linking to http://guru3.sytes.net/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif , which is a 404?
22:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
22:55 <n54> hmm which smiley is it? some of them were made by me and might not have been put where the other usually are or something like that
22:57 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:57 <wrtlprnft> it links to guru3.sytes.net instead of forums.armagetronad.net
23:00 <wrtlprnft> and it's the standard smiley face
23:00 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:00 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:00 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
23:07 <McSpiddles> #later tell wrtlprnft armabot is your friend
23:07 <armabot> McSpiddles: The operation succeeded.
23:08 <McSpiddles> i'ma do what wrtl's doing
23:08 <McSpiddles> bbl
23:59 -!- Netsplit clarke.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: wejp, guru3, SuPeRTaRD, deja_vu
23:59 -!- Netsplit over, joins: deja_vu

Log from 2006-05-21:
--- Day changed Sun May 21 2006
00:03 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
00:12 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA175.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
00:13 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-179-146.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> hey, my curses script just started spontaneously restoring the terminal back to how it was.  So the problem it had is gone now.  that's good.  :)
00:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SuPeRTaRD
00:19 <n54> ?? restoring the terminal?
00:19 <n54> what problem did it have?
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> it left me with a terminal that wouldn't echo output
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> er, input
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> so I couldn't see what I was typing :)
00:22 <n54> oh
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking of going with Tank's suggestion to use debian instead of dsl
00:23 <n54> yeah?
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> dsl looks really good for the purpose, but I'm concerned about starting in with a completely new distribution.
00:24 <n54> did it lack pyhon or something like that?
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> it lacks python in the base install, but it's in the repo.
00:24 <Lucifer_arma> might also lack moosic, I didn't check.  I'm willing to build from source if necessary for some of this stuff, though.
00:24 <n54> mm yeah I don't think it will feel completely new though but hey it's something easily changed anyhow :)
00:25 <n54> yeah probably lacks moosic
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it is.  :)
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm definitely leaning towards a LFS sort of thing in the vision.
00:25 <n54> you could even multiboot if your eqlly want to ;) j/k
00:25 <n54> really*
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to say "customize mandrake" or "customize debian".
00:26  * Lucifer_arma wonders how easy it is to build a custom debian anyway
00:26 <n54> I don't know, the thing about LFS that appeals to me is that you wont have to decide allt he stuff to cut, instead you can build from the bottom up with only what you need - still I haven't done that either (yet) :D
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that same trait is there with gentoo, actually.  The advantage gentoo brings is portage.
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> but there's something to be said for making a custom package manager for the task.  A desktop package manager will likely incur dependency resolutions that will just bloat the system without adding anything useful
00:28 <n54> but then I fell in loe with obsd so first thing first for me (i.e. I won't get anywhere before years have passed lol)
00:28 <n54> love*
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> space isn't really at a premium in the long run, I'll get a bigger hard drive.
00:28 <n54> yeah but your not wanting a desktop so...
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> last I saw, *bsd had, umm, I don't want to say bad hardware support, but maybe not general purpose hardware support?
00:29 <GodTodd> that brings up my question....i'm looking to make a linux box.....i've downloaded the gentoo iso because it looks to be the most customizable distro...is that a decent place to start?
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> how about "I feel more confident that Linux will support most of the hardware I throw at it, and I'm already going to be looking at using obscure hardware"
00:29 <n54> absolutely right, it's not what it's made for, at least not obsd, so don't use for that unless you really want to :)
00:29 <n54> use it*
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I wouldn't, to be honest.  Or rather, I didn't.  :)
00:30 <GodTodd> well...i know...you liked mandrake...is that a better jumping off point?
00:30 <Lucifer_arma> there are levels of customizability that you have to consider.  FOr a new user, Gentoo doesn't provide any more customizability imo than anybody else
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> where gentoo's customizable is much closer to the metal.  in fact, consider the questions I'm asking about this car computer and ask yourself "Am I asking these same kinds of questions for a desktop?"
00:31 <n54> I think any will do GodTodd, people change distros like underwear anyhow ;D
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> if the answer is "no", go with Kubuntu or Mandriva.  :)
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> actually, ummm, hang on
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/node/17
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> y'all know I hate repeating myself....  ;)
00:32 <GodTodd> lol :P
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> Towel Day is in 4 days.  Don't forget your towel on May 25!  Show everyone how froopy you really are.
00:33 <GodTodd> main thing i'm looking for is the learning factor and hardware support
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't list Kubuntu on there, but it's what I'm using now, so think about it carefully
00:34 <n54> towel day?
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> towel day = douglas adams's birthday
00:35 <GodTodd> kubuntu....that a good one....says it's an easy to use distro....
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> umm, go with Mandriva.  You can throw it away later if you need to.
00:35 <n54> or knoppix (it also uses kde by deafult)
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> Kubuntu is a really nice distribution, but there are, um, traits that I don't know how they look to a noob
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, go with your gut.  :)
00:35 <n54> default*
00:35 <n54> yeah any will do really
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> If you use Kubuntu, I can give current help.  If you use Mandriva I'll just say "Well, last time I used it it was like this..."
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> If you use pretty much anything else, sorry from me.
00:36 <GodTodd> well...i've run a couple linux distros before....just didn't get too into the guts when my dialup wouldn't work on them....that's how long its been :)
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> however
00:36 <n54> and if you ever want to learn about real *nix then try a bsd ;D
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> anjori (who's absent presently) really digs MEPIS
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> he (she?  never have found out) says MEPIS is really good for new users
00:37 <GodTodd> hmmm....i'll look into that one too...
00:37 <n54> on internet? check! on irc? check! cender male? 89% positive!
00:37 <GodTodd> karen basically gave me the kitchen machine today to do with what i please ;)
00:38 <n54> netbsd can run on a toaster... in case it's _that_ kind of a kitchen machine :)
00:38 <GodTodd> well....it's a snail with XPensive on it
00:39 <GodTodd> i'd get the sys stats...but i don't have the patience for an 8 hour wait ;)
00:39 <GodTodd> heh
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> I'd have to say the most important part of my own experience has nothing to do with which distribution you pick
00:39 <n54> yes, the important stuff is all more or less the same anyhow
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> See, at first I did it as a dual-boot, figuring I could keep working and doing important stuff in Windows and "evaluate" linux at my leisure
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> that meant the evaluation never happened.
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> Reason?  If I dont' actually work and do important stuff on it, how the hell can I know if it's any good for me?
00:40 <n54> yes I fell in the same trap way back when I ran redhat
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> mind you, I don't play with operating systems.  And I don't switch much.
00:40 <GodTodd> exactly...that's how it was with my 5 boot system back then
00:40 <n54> more than one machine is the solution really
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> Sure, there are people who collect operating systems and just play around with them.
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not one of them.
00:41 <n54> I am :) but I don't collect distros
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> So when I finally realized what was going on, I backed up the system, reformatted with just Mandrake on it, and went from there
00:41 <Lucifer_arma> never looked back.
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> so whatever you do, make sure you've got a good idea why you're doing it to begin with and try to have some realistic view of how it'll actually work.
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> I think too many people fail not just at using Linux but at all sorts of other things because they just jump in without really knowing why they were jumping in
00:42 <GodTodd> yeah....that's why i want to start with one machine....once i know what to expect then i'll reformat my laptop
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> that's a good idea.  :)  I have to admit that my dual boot experience also provided me with an idea what to expect, and I couldn't have jumped in later without it.
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> how old is the laptop?
00:43 <GodTodd> heh....it's a lot like religion....i only jumped into windows because it was what i knew....now that i can choose i don't want windows heh
00:43 <GodTodd> bought it around thanksgiving
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> brand spanking new?
00:44 <n54> it should _not_ be like religion, really :)
00:44 <GodTodd> kinda....sempron processor....7 or 800 MHz....
00:44 <n54> dell?
00:44 <GodTodd> hp
00:44 <Lucifer_arma> hmm.  Better take an inventory of all the pieces-parts and google them with "linux" appended
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> linux on laptops isn't pretty.
00:45 <GodTodd> yeah
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> there's a chance you stumbled across the hp laptop tht also comes ina  linux flavor and you wont' have any problems, though.  :)
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> Does it have wireless ethernet?
00:45 <GodTodd> well...i had redhat on a previous laptop 2 or 3 years ago....ran better than xp did heh
00:45 <GodTodd> yes
00:45 <Lucifer_arma> what's the card it uses?
00:45 <GodTodd> i'd hafta dig for that info
00:45 <GodTodd> it's integrated
00:46 <Lucifer_arma> better find out.  I think Sempron has as one of its available wireless adapters the evil broadcom one.
00:47 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:47  * Luke-Jr notes his experience w/ Linux on a laptop was okay
00:48 <Luke-Jr> w/o planning
00:48 <Luke-Jr> but it didn't involve WiFi either =p
00:48 <GodTodd> hmmm....just how much trouble would wireless connectivity in linux be WITH the broadcom WLAN?
00:48 <GodTodd> :/
00:49 <n54> it would probably require some digging, but afaik wlan stuff is getting pretty good, some people take drivers from netbsd too, but in general it seems it's an easy stumbeling block
00:50 <n54> /s/easy/common
00:50 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: depends on what kind of connectivity
00:50  * n54 avoids using wireless, no personal experience
00:50 <Luke-Jr> I think you could get WEP-less 802.11
00:50 <Luke-Jr> *with very experimental drivers
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> you have to install ndiswrapper and use the windows driver
00:50 <Luke-Jr> nonsense
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> I'm using it here on my laptop, so it's possible :)
00:51 <Luke-Jr> you need to compile CVS code for Broadcom drivers
00:51 <Luke-Jr> the hard work of many developers doing a clean-room reverse engineer
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> In fact, Kubuntu's worked like a charm out of the box, whereas the last Mandriva I ran required me to download the newest ndiswrappers and build it from source
00:51 <Luke-Jr> someone should tell Luci ndiswrapper is dumb and unnecessary now =p
00:51 <Luke-Jr> since he's ignoring me
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> the other thing that can be hard is getting the right resolution
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> used to be that Mandrake only shipped with 4:3 aspect ratios in their x config file.  So if you had a wide screen, you had to hack that file, and it wasn't easy.
00:53 <Luke-Jr> X -configure
00:53 <GodTodd> i'm kinda leaning toward kubuntu i think....as a first step....well a first step in years ;)
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> this laptop had a particularly nasty problem in Mandriva that I don't even entirely remember, just that I wound up doing trial and error with very dangerous config items
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> I've got the NForce chipset, which includes an onboard GeForce II or something like that, which is well supported.
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> it was just the particular LCD that's in here that I had to hack to account for.
00:54 <Luke-Jr> nVidia stuff isn't well supported generally
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> Most everything else works pretty well, but those two particular shitbangers aren't just things that don't work well often enough for my tastes,
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> they're also a really big pain in the wazzooo to fix
00:55 <Luke-Jr> ideal is an ATi 9250 chipset
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> 3d acceleration is also touch and go sometimes, depends entirely on your adapter
00:55 <Luke-Jr> 3D is no-go with nVidia or ATi post-9250
00:56 <GodTodd> ati radeon xpress 200M for the laptop adapter it seems
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> and again, Mandriva had me download the binary nvidia drivers from nvidia's website, which then had to build their adapter because they didn't support my kernel already, and failed to build because of a silly bug
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> I'd expect good ati support in general, but I've never experienced it because I've never had an ati (except in my now-deceased thinkpad, but 3d acceleration was a laughing matter on tht thing)
00:57 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: eck
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> but Kubuntu gave me the nvidia drivers and they just worked out of the box.
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> now, that all said and done, Kubuntu hasn't been the paradise it might sound like.
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> apt-get will refuse to install stuff if it breaks other things, which is a good thing, right?  But, hmmm.
00:58 <GodTodd> not looking for paradise...would actually prefer a FEW problems so that i can fix them
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> Say you have library a.1, and program b depends on a.2.  a.1 and a.2 are binary compatible with each other.
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> half your system depends on a.1 and will automatically uninstall if you uninstall a.1.  But you'd like to fool with program b.
00:58 <n54> hehe
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> so sometimes apt-get will tell you that a.2 and a.1 can't be installed together, and it'll refuse to install program b because of it's a.2 dependency
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> so you have to install a.1-devel and build program b from source if you want it.
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> not terribly painful, but Kubuntu aims to not require people to do that, and we're tlaking packages int heir repository.
01:00 <Luke-Jr> lame
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> here's an annoyance bug, and I really mean "bug".  If I unplug my usb laser printer and plug it into a different port, Mandriva disables it.
01:02 <GodTodd> heh
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> Erm, I think the server's running Mandrake, from before the name change.
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, and in case it ever matters, forget about sharing home directories across distributions.  I've had to cleanup so much shit from sharing my home directory between Mandriva and Kubuntu.
01:05 <GodTodd> mandrake 8.1....that's from a while ago, isn't it? ;)
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> I used to have a lost+found menu item that hovering over it filled up my whole screen
01:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, Mandrake 8.1's pretty old now
01:06 <GodTodd> i figured....since i installed it like 5 years or so ago
01:06 <GodTodd> heh
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> hm, that sounds about right.
01:06 <Luke-Jr> ilol
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> I think I started with that one.
01:06 <GodTodd> yeah...that's the first one i did
01:06 <GodTodd> that and redhat 8
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> RedHat 7.2 is the one I installed on the dual-booter intending to evaluate Linux.
01:07 <GodTodd> 7.2 is what came with my linux book in college
01:08 <Luke-Jr> the first I tried was RedHat 5.2, IIRC
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you want to get the fuzzies during installation, Mandriva's installer was looking damn nice.  Kubuntu's looks like it's still curses-based
01:08 <GodTodd> well....ok...it was actually a unix class...but it was 'learning unix using linux'
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> I could be smoking something, though.
01:08 <GodTodd> wow...i actually have a slackware 1.0 cd...
01:08 <GodTodd> :/
01:08 <Luke-Jr> saw it at a computer fair thing and said "I think I heard something about that" so bought it =p
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh
01:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke, I think.  And ponder this car player script I'm working on
01:09 <GodTodd> have fun :)
01:10 <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: ...
01:11 <GodTodd> yep?
01:11 <Luke-Jr> just was wondering if I'm on your ignore list also
01:11 <Luke-Jr> and my comments aren't going into /dev/null
01:11 <GodTodd> nope...i don't ignore anyone
01:11 <Luke-Jr> heh
01:11 <Luke-Jr> neither do I
01:11 <Luke-Jr> thought I pretend to once in a while
01:11 <Luke-Jr> though*
01:11 <Luke-Jr> ignoring is broken in concept, IMO
01:12 <Luke-Jr> it will just confuse the ignorer =p
01:12 <GodTodd> i'm one of those that likes to see people act stupid...and if you ignore them then that takes the fun out of life heh
01:13 <Luke-Jr> =p
01:15  * Luke-Jr pokes at filenames with spaces
01:16 <GodTodd> fuck that....i'm not paying for a linux trial run
01:16 <GodTodd> heh
01:16 <GodTodd> mepis is out
01:17 <Luke-Jr> mepis isn't too new...
01:18 <GodTodd> oh wait...nvm....found the ftp mirrors
01:18 <GodTodd> must be that you pay for support
01:34 <Lucifer_arma> class MoosicPlayer(object):    <---- :)
02:12 <GodTodd> once the kubuntu iso is burnt, the resulting disk is bootable, right?
02:13 <n54> yeah
02:13 <GodTodd> k
02:13 <GodTodd> not going to mess with it tonight/this morning i don't think...but should have the disk needed now :)
02:13 <n54> :)
02:18 <guru3> back
02:18 <n54> hi :)
02:19 <n54> btw in case you haven't noticed there's an ongoing attack on freenode by some loser cracker, just do you don't be surprised if someone drops by, changes the topic, kicks people etc. etc.
02:19 <n54> so*
02:19 <guru3> ok...
02:20 <n54> it's mainly in #freenode-social and #wikipedia and other larger channels
02:20 <guru3> k
02:20 <guru3> btw, what was the last post you made on the test forums?
02:21 <n54> hmm me wondering about Gnorty comparing ali with osama and some such
02:21 <n54> nothing important, just my puzzlement :)
02:22 <guru3> that's what i thought
02:22 <n54> but the threads didn't go "read" after I read new ones, probably a db thing
02:22 <guru3> they have for me
02:23 <n54> hmm ok
02:24 <n54> I usually hit refresh after moving through the new stuff page, and usually (always before) that changes "new" to "read" if you get what I mean, didn't happen when testing
02:25 <guru3> more people need to post
02:25 <n54> yeah
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> yay.  object-oriented media player now :)
02:26 <n54> hehe
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> but man, moosic's default settings just plain don't work.
02:27 <n54> really?
02:27 <n54> huh
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :(
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> it could be Kubuntu's defaults, or Kubuntu just has crappy builds of the underlying programs
02:28 <n54> you could always mail him, looks like a small personal project so he might appreciate it a lot
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to have to hack on it sooner or later.  :)  It doesn't recover smoothly when it doesn't work, for example if sox is missing.
02:29 <n54> ok
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> I should probably start listing the programs needed and trace through all the dependencies.  Anything I do for building the distribution will be better if I know exactly what I need.  :)
02:30 <n54> :)
02:40 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o n54] by ChanServ
02:40 <guru3> wow that does work
02:40 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o n54] by ChanServ
02:40 <n54> yup
02:40 <guru3> breakfast bbl
02:40 <n54> cya
02:52 <guru3> back
03:21 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:32 -!- philippeqc2 [n=ph@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
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07:48 <wrtlprnft> yay the smiley is fixed :)
08:04 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
08:22 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: would you mind installing that antispam hack i made? they're spamming everyday around midnight, it's annoying
08:23 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Lucifer_arma would you mind installing that antispam hack i made? they're spamming everyday around midnight, it's annoying
08:23 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles ok, there is a match against AW at 1AM CDT/8PM GMT today. I won't be there, I trust you guys to organize yourselves
09:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo ok, there is a match against AW at 1AM CDT/8PM GMT today. I won't be there, I trust you guys to organize yourselves
09:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:05 <McSpiddles> qrtl
09:05 <McSpiddles> wrtl
09:05 <McSpiddles> what's that gmt -6?
09:05 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles
09:05 <wrtlprnft> that's your time zone
09:05 <McSpiddles> i think
09:05 <wrtlprnft> it's 11 hours from now
09:05 <wrtlprnft> and it's gmt-5
09:06 <wrtlprnft> ack
09:06 <McSpiddles> all i know is i'm central :p
09:06 <wrtlprnft> wrong way
09:06 <McSpiddles> no
09:06 <wrtlprnft> 1AM GMT/8PM CDT
09:06 <McSpiddles> it's gmt -6
09:06 <McSpiddles> my time
09:06 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:06 <wrtlprnft> that would be CST
09:06 <McSpiddles> gmt -6 is central time US&Canada
09:06 <wrtlprnft> CDT is daylight savings time
09:07 <wrtlprnft> trust me, during summer it is gmt-5
09:07 <McSpiddles> k
09:07 <McSpiddles> anways
09:07 <McSpiddles> so it's at
09:07 <wrtlprnft> #later tell Self_Destructo sorry, mixup. It should say 1AM GMT/8PM CDT
09:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
09:07 <McSpiddles> 8?
09:07 <McSpiddles> 8pm*?
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes. 8PM, 20:00
09:08 <McSpiddles> k
09:08 <wrtlprnft> whatever it is in 8 hours 52 minutes from now
09:08 <McSpiddles> post in the city?
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:08 <McSpiddles> 8 hours?
09:08 <McSpiddles> you said 11 >.>
09:08 <wrtlprnft> ack
09:08 <wrtlprnft> yes, 11
09:08 <wrtlprnft> s10 hours 51 minutes
09:09 <wrtlprnft> 10 hours 51 minutes
09:09 <McSpiddles> lol
09:09 <McSpiddles> yea i think that's about 8pm
09:09 <wrtlprnft> go to the city sometime before the match starts and tell people...
09:09 <wrtlprnft> and kick some ass!
09:10 <McSpiddles> :p
09:10 <McSpiddles> why not post now
09:10 <McSpiddles> so people will know ahead of time
09:10 <wrtlprnft> it is posted, but people tend not to read it
09:10 <wrtlprnft> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=88958#88958
09:11 <McSpiddles> hmm
09:11 <McSpiddles> ebder can't play
09:11 <McSpiddles> :s
09:11 <McSpiddles> ender*
09:11 <wrtlprnft> how do you know?
09:12 <McSpiddles> sry for missing. Sad i wont be on the grid much for a little while.
09:12 <McSpiddles> plus
09:12 <McSpiddles> SD won't be back till monday
09:12 <wrtlprnft> that post is more than a month old
09:12 <McSpiddles> i so knew that
09:12 <McSpiddles> :s
09:12 <wrtlprnft> look at the date
09:12 <McSpiddles> yea,just saw it
09:12 <McSpiddles> lol
09:13 <wrtlprnft> sure you can talk to 2020 and try to move it
09:13 <McSpiddles> why won't you be here?
09:13 <McSpiddles> :/
09:13 <wrtlprnft> birthday party of someone
09:13 <wrtlprnft> real life :P
09:13 <McSpiddles> lol
09:13 <McSpiddles> k
09:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50870C23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
09:14 <McSpiddles> so
09:14 <McSpiddles> if we lose this one we're out?
09:14 <wrtlprnft> yep
09:14 <z-man> spoon trouble?
09:14 <McSpiddles> then i guess i can't let that happen :p
09:14 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:14 <wrtlprnft> then play, get people on the grid :P
09:15 <McSpiddles> yea,yea
09:15 <McSpiddles> i wanna make breakfast,but i'm too tired to get up
09:15 <wrtlprnft> if you want high- ping practice, my spoon server is up
09:15 <McSpiddles> :/
09:16 <McSpiddles> all we really need is ota,eagle,kan,and me
09:16 <wrtlprnft> it should have about the same settings and features as z-man's, but it can only hold 8 people
09:16 <McSpiddles> which server?
09:16 <wrtlprnft> uh, and i can give you the admin_pass if you really want
09:17 <wrtlprnft> "wrtl's spoon fortress"
09:17 <McSpiddles> your server?
09:17 <McSpiddles> k
09:17 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:18 <McSpiddles> eh
09:18 <McSpiddles> i forgot
09:18 <McSpiddles> it's been raining all night
09:18 <McSpiddles> :/
09:18 <wrtlprnft> but, of course it's CVS HEAD, so the code is different than z-man's servers
09:18 <McSpiddles> is there gonna be a match on z-man's spoon server at the same time?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> and it has the shooting hack, but i disabled it
09:19 <wrtlprnft> no
09:19 <McSpiddles> why not use his,my ping's between 160-180 on it
09:19 <wrtlprnft> but you wanted me to create that server a while ago, and there it is
09:19 <McSpiddles> yea,for practice :p
09:19 <wrtlprnft> mine is not suitable for matches anyways
09:19 <wrtlprnft> limit of 8 ppl
09:19 <McSpiddles> cause we're gonna need alot of it,if we win this one
09:20 <wrtlprnft> then go, get people together. i have to go in 10 minutes
09:20 <wrtlprnft> I'll be back at around 2PM, but only for a bit more than an hour
09:20 <McSpiddles> k,i'll watch my little armaspy thingy :p
09:21 <wrtlprnft> :D
09:21 <McSpiddles> and eat breakfast,if i ever get off my ass
09:21 <McSpiddles> oh,i might not be able to play
09:21 <wrtlprnft> D:
09:21 <McSpiddles> unless the rain dries up quick
09:22 <McSpiddles> my ping was pretty high in cvs
09:22 <wrtlprnft> that auomatically means we lose
09:22 <McSpiddles> i can try,but if it keeps raining i'ma slide like  bitch
09:22 <wrtlprnft> nice internet connection you have
09:22 <McSpiddles> no shit
09:22 <McSpiddles> charter doesn't use weather proof cable box's
09:23 <McSpiddles> reminds me,i forgot to call and bitch about it
09:23 <wrtlprnft> lol
09:24 <McSpiddles> when i upgrade to the 5mbit line,my ping should drop to 130-140
09:24 <McSpiddles> "when it doesn't rain"
09:24 <wrtlprnft> 5mbit up or down?
09:24 <McSpiddles> down
09:24 <wrtlprnft> bah
09:24 <McSpiddles> i got 3mbit now
09:24 <McSpiddles> lol
09:24 <wrtlprnft> don't think it'll help
09:25 <wrtlprnft> what's your uprate?
09:25 <McSpiddles> of course it will,my upload will go from 256 to around 765
09:25 <McSpiddles> or something like that
09:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm nice
09:25 <McSpiddles> that'd be around 80kb/s up
09:25 <wrtlprnft> at home it is 512 up and it still only hosts 8 players :(
09:25 <McSpiddles> i get like 30kb/s 40 on a good day
09:25 <McSpiddles> only?
09:25 <McSpiddles> dude
09:26 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:26 <McSpiddles> i can have 5-8 on mine when i host it
09:26 <McSpiddles> with good pings
09:26 <McSpiddles> if i stop all other services
09:26 <McSpiddles> heh
09:26 <wrtlprnft> that's probably because my server sucks
09:26 <wrtlprnft> 400MH
09:26 <wrtlprnft> z
09:26 <McSpiddles> hmmm
09:26 <McSpiddles> sec
09:27 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
09:27 <wrtlprnft> well, g2g, cya
09:27 <spidey> i have 2 of these box's
09:27 <spidey> OS: WinXP Professional 5.1 (Build #2600) CPU: Intel Pentium IV, 2.19 GHz Video: Plug and Play Monitor on Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller (1280x1024x32bpp 60Hz) Sound: SoundMAX Digital Audio Memory: Used: 265/376MB Uptime: 2d 8h 3m 51s HD: [C:] 75.90/111.75 GB [D:] 8.81/12.72 GB Connection: ADMtek AN983 based ethernet adapter - Packet Scheduler Miniport @ 100.0 Mbps (Rec: 1080.47MB Sent: 
09:27 <McSpiddles> k,cya
09:28 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
09:56 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
09:56 <ghableska> hello
09:56 <MaZuffeR> hi ghab
09:56 <ghableska> hi maz
10:00 <ghableska> how are you?
10:00 <MaZuffeR> good
10:06 <guru3> n54: i see what you mean now
10:07 <guru3> i think that's caused by the domain stuff
10:07 <guru3> but i'm not 100% sure
10:59 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
11:59 <guru3> well
11:59 <guru3> because the forums are being slow
11:59 <guru3> i them up on a distributed database
12:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: is there any documentation on sensors? I'm kinda helpless...
12:02 <z-man> I'm afraid not
12:02 <wrtlprnft> i just want to find the nearest wall to a given cycle
12:02 <guru3> wrtlprnft: look at the chatbot code
12:02 <guru3> it's used there
12:03 <guru3> like exactly as you describe wanting to use it
12:03 <wrtlprnft> what's is that the general AI code?
12:03 <z-man> Right, the chatbot code is a good choice
12:03 <wrtlprnft> i was trying the camera, with no success
12:03 <guru3> chatbot code is reactive
12:03 <guru3> the main ai code
12:03 <guru3> is much more
12:03 <wrtlprnft> you know, how the smartcam moves up if you are close to a wall
12:04 <guru3> yeah
12:04 <guru3> well
12:04 <guru3> chatbot is the place
12:04 <guru3> gSensors up in there
12:04 <z-man> The chatbot resides in gCycle::Timestep
12:05 <guru3> it checks the one
12:05 <guru3> is chatting flag
12:05 <z-man> can't miss it, comment says "activate chat AI"
12:05 <wrtlprnft> oh, thanks, i was already looking
12:05 <wrtlprnft> didn't found a gChatbot or gAutoPilit
12:05 <wrtlprnft> *didn't find
12:05 <z-man> Yeah, it's to primitive it doesn't even get a class of its own :)
12:06 <guru3> i did write my own variants a while back
12:06 <guru3> some of them were actually ok
12:10 <wrtlprnft> ah, sweet. Thanks
12:12 <wrtlprnft> uh, do those things eat lots of CPU? how big should i set the range?
12:13 <z-man> As big as you need it
12:14 <z-man> They aren't really resource intensive, every cylce casts five per frame
12:14 <z-man> short ranged ones, that is
12:14 <z-man> but sensors across the whole map are probably a bad idea right now :)
12:15 <guru3> i set up the database bit from my home server to the forums server in compressed ssh tunnels as suggested
12:15 <z-man> I always wanted to make them actually stop on the first hit, but never came around to do that
12:16 <wrtlprnft> well, i want to make it a callback for the cockpit, and they can't take parameters
12:16 <guru3> lol
12:19 <wrtlprnft> well, I'll just assume that you're not interested in a wall that's more than 5 seconds away
12:20 <guru3> you're doing distances in terms of time?
12:20 <wrtlprnft> well
12:20 <wrtlprnft> the speed of the cycle times 5 seconds, of course
12:24 <guru3> *groan*
12:24 <wrtlprnft> hah, that gauge is sweet. That'll be a huge advantage on fortress
12:24 <guru3> times are going to be a big issue
12:24 <wrtlprnft> so you know if that guy outgrinded you or not
12:24 <guru3> really
12:24 <guru3> the sensors need to tell you the speed of who evers wall it is
12:25 <wrtlprnft> i could do that, but what's the point?
12:25 <guru3> well if the guy is right next to you on your right
12:25 <guru3> hmm
12:25 <guru3> it just seemed like a useful idea
12:26 <guru3> domain name resolutions in a webbrowser are usually cached right>
12:26 <guru3> ?
12:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, i think so
12:26 <wrtlprnft> depends on the browser
12:26 <guru3> okay
12:26 <wrtlprnft> and some routers have their own caching DNS proxy
12:27 <guru3> that's ok then
12:27 <wrtlprnft> depends on the browser == IE doesn't
12:28 <guru3> blargh
12:28 <wrtlprnft> :P
12:28 <wrtlprnft> at least i think so
12:28 <guru3> yeah but there's a windows service iirc
12:28 <guru3> that caches
12:28 <guru3> and is enabled by default
12:29 <wrtlprnft> might be. I'm not into windows
12:29 <guru3> ok i've just synced the clocks on the two servers
12:30 <guru3> hopefully that won't fuck up too much other stuff...
12:33 -!- philippeqc2 [n=ph@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
12:49 <McSpiddles> wrtl
12:49 <McSpiddles> you back till the match?
12:50 <wrtlprnft> no
12:50 <McSpiddles> :(
12:50 <wrtlprnft> I'll be gone at around 3
12:55 <McSpiddles> i'ma go see what my ping's like it stopped raining
12:55 <McSpiddles> brb
13:01 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
13:01 <ghableska> hi
13:07 <wrtlprnft> hi there
13:08  * ghableska has computer problems... :(
13:08 <wrtlprnft> of what kind?
13:08 <ghableska> not sure
13:09 <ghableska> see, everything was running fine yesterday, and when I started my computer up today, I got this weird error message
13:09 <wrtlprnft> what message?
13:10 <ghableska> That said "The application or DLL C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVCP71.dll is not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your installation diskette.
13:10 <wrtlprnft> and it still boots?
13:11 <ghableska> if I try to start up norton antivirus, it gives me the same message
13:11 <ghableska> yes, it boots up
13:11 <ghableska> but a few other windows programs aren't working either
13:11 <wrtlprnft> hmm. might be a virus, not sure
13:11 <ghableska> :(
13:12 <ghableska> and the windows search isn't working...
13:12 <ghableska> or error-checking
13:13 <wrtlprnft> no real clue, sorry
13:13 <ghableska> that's fine
13:15 <GodTodd> replace the dll
13:15 <GodTodd> Microsoft� C Runtime Library, v. 7.10.3077.0
13:15 <ghableska> hmm?
13:15 <GodTodd> that error is usually a corrupt dll
13:16 <GodTodd> just dl and install a new copy
13:16 <ghableska> where could I download a dll?
13:17 <GodTodd> http://www.dll-download.net/msvcp71.html
13:17 <ghableska> thansk
13:17 <ghableska> *thanks
13:18 <ghableska> brb
13:18 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
13:23 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
13:24 <ghableska> it didn't work
13:24 <ghableska> I still get the same error message on startup...
13:25 <GodTodd> hmmm
13:25 <wrtlprnft> check if it's still the exact same file you downloaded
13:26 <ghableska> yes, it is
13:27 <wrtlprnft> how do you know?
13:27 <wrtlprnft> md5sum?
13:27 <ghableska> ?
13:27 <ghableska> well, the sizes are the same...
13:27 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia md5sum
13:27 <wrtlprnft> that doesn't say anything
13:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.43 seconds: Md5sum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5sum>; Lua Player - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_Player>; Wikipedia:Database download - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download>; Knoppix STD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (2 more messages)
13:27 <ghableska> oh :X
13:27 <ghableska> well, you're talking to a computer ignoramus here ;)
13:28  * wrtlprnft has no idea on how to calculate md5sums on a windows box
13:34 <McSpiddles> yer
13:34 <McSpiddles> i have a little slide,but it's playable
13:35 <wrtlprnft> w00t
13:35 <wrtlprnft> i LOVE those new gauges
13:35 <ghableska> hmm, and Windows Update won't work either...
13:35 <McSpiddles> what's wrong ghab?
13:36 <ghableska> everything
13:36 <McSpiddles> like what?
13:36 <ghableska> things aren't working.... 
13:36 <McSpiddles> hmm
13:37 <McSpiddles> wanna try something for me?
13:37 <ghableska> sure...
13:37 <ghableska> what?
13:37 <McSpiddles> start > run > cmd
13:37 <McSpiddles> see if it starts cmdprompt
13:37 <ghableska> yes
13:37 <McSpiddles> k,try ping and netstat
13:38 <ghableska> what am I supposed to be seeing?
13:38 <McSpiddles> some malware replaces the cmdprompt commands with .coms
13:38 <ghableska> doesn't look like it
13:38 <McSpiddles> if it didn't work i'd say you got alot of malware
13:38 <McSpiddles> lol
13:39 <McSpiddles> whatexactly is it doing?
13:39 <McSpiddles> the system that is...
13:39 <ghableska> well, i'm getting this weird error message on startup
13:39 <McSpiddles> that is?
13:40 <ghableska> The application or DLL c:\windows\system32\msvcp71.dll is not a valid Windows image. PLease check this against your installation diskette
13:40 <McSpiddles> sec
13:40 <ghableska> brb
13:43 <McSpiddles> lol
13:43 <McSpiddles> i got alot of spyware :/
13:43 <McSpiddles> anywho
13:49 <ghableska> g2g, but i'll probably be back in about an hour
13:49 <ghableska> thanks for the help
13:50 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
14:14 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47691#47691
14:14 <wrtlprnft> o_O
14:15 <wrtlprnft> if your scrollback doesn't reach far enough: a) extend your scrollback b) ask politely what this discussion is about without making a negative comment, or c) STFU
14:15 <McSpiddles> O_o
14:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: Luke-Jr 
14:19 <wrtlprnft> d) use http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs.txt , e) make your negative comment and expect to be silenced after a while
14:25 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I'm not referring to negative comments
14:26 <wrtlprnft> uh, Lucifer_arma is when silencing you
14:26 <Luke-Jr> nope
14:26 <wrtlprnft> but?
14:26 <wrtlprnft> negative and pointless comments
14:27 <Luke-Jr> nothing negative, just pointless because you had apparently already covered that concern
14:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah. and you did not get that message and brought that discussion up again
14:27 <Luke-Jr> "We already thought of that" is a proper response
14:28 <wrtlprnft> let's see if that helps with you. i doubt it
14:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Special:Log/block
14:51 <wrtlprnft> > 13:48, 21 May 2006 Wrtlprnft blocked "User:Wrtlprnft" with an expiry time of 1 minute (test)
14:51 <wrtlprnft> never thought i could block myself
14:52 <Luke-Jr> ...
14:53 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --with ...
14:53 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ...
14:53 <wrtlprnft> aww, just one. I'm sure if armabot had a longer history it would be enough to force a #more
14:56 <Luke-Jr> ...
14:56 <Luke-Jr> try w/o the limit thing
14:56 <wrtlprnft> another one. my logs count 10 now
14:56 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --with ... --nolimit
14:56 <Luke-Jr> --nolimit or something?
14:56 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:56:36] <Luke-Jr> ..., [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ..., [01:17:53] <Luke-Jr> mepis isn't too new..., [01:11:03] <Luke-Jr> GodTodd: ..., and [00:47:18] <Luke-Jr> ...
14:57 <wrtlprnft> yay, 3 alone in there
14:57 <Luke-Jr> hehe
14:58 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --regex /^\.\{3}$/ --nolimit
14:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 1866 messages.
14:58 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Luke-Jr --regex /^\.{3}$/ --nolimit
14:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [14:56:36] <Luke-Jr> ..., [14:52:12] <Luke-Jr> ..., and [00:47:18] <Luke-Jr> ...
15:00 <z-man> could one of the non-admins here try to commit something to CVSROOT? I hope I disabled that :)
15:00 <wrtlprnft> how?
15:00 <z-man> Check it out like any other module: cvs co CVSROOT
15:00 <wrtlprnft> kk
15:01 <z-man> best file to modify is "avail"
15:01 <Luke-Jr> z-man: disable the 'armagetron' modules too?
15:01 <z-man> just try to add avail|wrtl at the end
15:01 <z-man> Luke-Jr: sure
15:02 <z-man> but if we test commits to that, that'd be a bit stupid if they fail, right?
15:02 <Luke-Jr> hm?
15:02 <z-man> If the test fails, a commit gets through and modifies the module
15:03 <wrtlprnft> **** Access denied: Insufficient Karma (wrtlprnft|CVSROOT|)
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs commit: Pre-commit check failed
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first!
15:03 <wrtlprnft> cvs commit: saving log message in /tmp/cvsUk1cnO
15:03 <z-man> hehe
15:03 <z-man> Well, next life, perhaps :)
15:03 <wrtlprnft> lol
15:05 <Luke-Jr> z-man: FYI, I don't really acknowledge formal leadership of the project by anyone-- I just weigh people's opinions and such based on how much respect they deserve and their knowledge on the topic. With you and guru3 as leaders, that worked out fine since you generally made the two things effectively one in the same, but I doubt it will be such for Lucifer.
15:06 <wrtlprnft> doesn't look like there's much control anyways. most of their binding decisions are common sense
15:06 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: hence why I don't think Lucifer will fit in well
15:06 <wrtlprnft> as long as z-man and guru3 agree there is no difference anyways
15:06 <z-man> Lucifer won't get anything silly past Tank and me
15:07 <wrtlprnft> not that i say Lucifer_arma would make bad decisions
15:07 <z-man> Just in case, yes :)
15:07 <wrtlprnft> I guess most of the time all three will agree
15:07 <Luke-Jr> what ever happened to the idea of just having each of us be an authority over the code we know better?
15:08 <Luke-Jr> eg, wrtl would authoritate over cockpit; I over resources; ph over maps; etc
15:08 <z-man> You still have that, as long as you don't mess up
15:08 <wrtlprnft> that would make z-man the total super- admin
15:08 <z-man> that's included in the 'we won't micromanage" paragraph
15:09 <Luke-Jr> z-man: sometimes it doesn't seem like it, when Lucifer decides to reinvent a new resource system ignoring anything I say
15:09 <z-man> I mean, what would be the point? Most of the time, you're all doing good work without supervision
15:09 <z-man> He only ignores the silly bits.
15:09 <z-man> the ones where you ignore everything everyone else said
15:09 <Luke-Jr> he's still pushing ZIP within resources
15:09 <wrtlprnft> i'm gonna strongly consider anything you three say no matter if it's binding or not
15:09 <z-man> as is everyone else except you :)
15:10 <z-man> that last one was for the ZIP
15:10 <Luke-Jr> ZIP only makes sense as packaging
15:10 <z-man> We've already chewed that discussion to its completion on the forum, it seems to me.
15:11 <Luke-Jr> and the completion wasn't ZIP
15:11 <Luke-Jr> it was a directory with binary data bits
15:11 <Luke-Jr> (or filepath.B.dataname)
15:11 <z-man> But using ZIPs as meta-filesystems wasn't explicitly excluded
15:12 <Luke-Jr> web requests don't use filesystems
15:13 <Luke-Jr> filesystems are invisible to that
15:13 <Luke-Jr> either the client or the server can indiscriminately use ZIP as a filesystem without any involvement of the resource system itself
15:14 <Luke-Jr> and in the case of manually shared resource packs, ZIP might be the preferred packaging format
15:14 <Luke-Jr> but that's not dealing with the system itself
15:14 <z-man> And I think that's all the ZIP proponents are suggesting
15:14 <z-man> Use it for manual sharing
15:15 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer still wants it within the system, it seems to me anyway
15:15 <Luke-Jr> bbiab
15:16  * wrtlprnft thinks this discussion should not be made with Lucifer_arma absent
15:16  * z-man agrees
15:17 <z-man> We'd need at least someone who was actually involved :)
15:17 <wrtlprnft> oh nooooooo
15:17 <wrtlprnft> not more spam
15:18 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA175.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:21 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B9484.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:21 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:21 <wrtlprnft> o_O
15:21 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
15:21 <wrtlprnft> there go our chatlogs
15:22 <ghableska> hi
15:22 <wrtlprnft> hi
15:23 -!- armabot [n=supybot@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
15:23 <z-man> armabot, what are you doing?
15:23 <wrtlprnft> interesting that armabot left, but Luke-Jr didn't
15:24 <wrtlprnft> maybe Lucifer_arma's wive restarted the server
15:25 <z-man> Be careful with that tab-completion :)
15:25 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:25 <wrtlprnft> oh, i see
15:26 <wrtlprnft> s/Luke-Jr/Lucifer_arma
15:27 <ghableska> :(
15:31 <wrtlprnft> there doesn't seem to be a way to get irssi to use bash- style completion :(
15:32 <wrtlprnft> like, complete as far as possible, don't just take the first match (and then cycle through the others)
15:32 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
15:32 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
15:32 <ghableska> gah
15:33 <ghableska> wrtlprnft, can you think of anything else I can do?
15:33 <wrtlprnft> not really, exept wiping out your harddrive and reinstalling
15:33 <wrtlprnft> or switching to another OS ;)
15:34 <ghableska> :P
15:34  * ghableska is starting to hate Windows
15:35 <wrtlprnft> hmm, g2g, cya
15:35 <ghableska> bye
15:37 <MaZuffeR> ghableska: have you tried using some spyware remover? like adaware or spybot search&destroy
15:37 <ghableska> I have both ;)
15:37 <ghableska> and they didn't find anything
15:37 <MaZuffeR> ok
15:38 <ghableska> MSVCP71.dll seems to be the source of the trouble
15:40 <ghableska> but i have no idea what to do...
15:40 <guru3> try the gcc version?
15:40  * guru3 has no clue what's wrong
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15:40 <ghableska> oops
15:42 <ghableska> any suggestions...
15:42 <ghableska> ?
15:42 <MaZuffeR> i have no idea what's wrong :/
15:46 <MaZuffeR> you could try avast! virus scanner, it can run before windows is fully started, worked on my dads old computer...
15:47 <ghableska> I'll try that...
15:49 <ghableska> brb, need to restart
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16:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:17 <ghableska> hi again
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16:28 <ghableska> :D
16:28 <ghableska> it worked
16:28 <MaZuffeR> good
16:29 <ghableska> no virus, but there were corrupted files
16:29 <MaZuffeR> ok
16:29 <ghableska> and then I was able to run this norton uninstaller online
16:29 <ghableska> so everything is normal :)
16:30 <ghableska> thanks 
16:30 <MaZuffeR> np
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16:45 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: yeah, my server was DOS-attacked by my 2 year old, that's why armabot was gone for a few minutes
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft yeah, can you relink me with the antispam stuff?  I thought I'd finish the move to gentoo and then do it, but I"ll do the antispam thing first and then finish the gentoo thing :)
16:46 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> #notes
16:47 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I currently have notes waiting for Self_Destructo and wrtlprnft.
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16:51 <ghableska> hello
17:09 <n54> back
17:09 <n54> hi ghab :) hope your problem is fixed (I've read everything)
17:10 <ghableska> oh, yeah :D
17:10 <ghableska> brb
17:10 <n54> #message guru3 yes, sorry about not being clear enough on the exact nature of the problem from the start (I relazied I was being unclear in the first way I described it)
17:10 <armabot> n54: The operation succeeded.
17:11 <guru3> ok
17:11 <guru3> but you know
17:11 <guru3> you dont' have to #message me
17:11 <n54> haha sorry :D
17:11 <guru3> because when you say a line with my name
17:11 <guru3> it points it out to me
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but some people don't always go back and find the lines with their names in them.  :)
17:12 <n54> onyl problem with keeping the channels up is that I spend half an hour reading tons of stuff here and elsewhere ^_^
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> there's also some of us that leave occasionally.
17:13 <n54> yup I'm gonna do that right now so this little pc doesn't croak
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17:19 <Lucifer_arma> http://componentizedlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page
17:21 <n54> looks interesting
17:21 <Lucifer_arma> looks more or less like what I need
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> describe components in an xml file, then the builder fetches them from the apt repository to build the distribution
17:22 <n54> yup I guess so
17:23 <ghableska> back
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, LSB is kinda contrary to what I'm looking at.
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> There's no reason for me to stick with the FHS-style directory tree, for example.  It's an embedded linux, not a desktop!
17:26 <n54> ok I though you wanted debian (with all the extra luggange) because you might need some desktop-thingy in the future (if you bought a lcd etc.) but if you don't then I
17:27 <n54> 'I'll revert back to recommending LFS
17:28  * n54 wonders how much gumstick could do *goes to see*
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> eh?  LFS is attractive, but it means I"ll have to build from scratch.  :)
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, I was interested in Debian for the first installation, the one I'm actually working on, because I can do most of the stuff I need without adding a bunch of crap I don't, I think.
17:29 <n54> ah ok
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> I think, mind you.  Don't know Debian that well.  I tried to build a custom Mandrake for awhile and it was painful.  Debian is supposed to be a lot easier, though.
17:30 <n54> btw not really truly on topic: http://www.gumstix.com/
17:30 <n54> ok
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> long run, the only things I'm concerned about with LFS are having a kernel with hardware detection and support that's comparable to desktop kernels
17:30 <Lucifer_arma> but in a way, I'd rather build my own package manager for this.
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> neat, but slow
17:33 <n54> yup
17:33 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.gumstix.com/waysmalls.html
17:34 <n54> yeah although I don't really like those
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> these are neat little gadgets, though.  :)
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> but there's some good pointers for where to look for other things.  u-boot bootloader?  what's that?  ;)
17:40 <n54> not sure, but I doub't you'll save much by not using lilo or grub :)
17:42 <n54> I think this is their main site http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/
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18:11 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm.  Couldn't see anything that made uboot look significant.  Looking at lfs again, though.  :)
18:12 <n54> me neither, I only glanced at it though but it just looked like work
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20:37 <ghableska> hi
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21:21 <ghableska> hi n54
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21:22 <n54> hi ghableska :)
21:23 <ghableska> there are still strange problems with my system :(
21:24 <n54> do you use antivirus, anti-spyware and such?
21:24 <ghableska> yes, i had norton antivirus
21:25 <n54> hmm ok I don't think highly of norton though
21:25 <ghableska> and i use zonealarm firewall, lavasoft ad-aware, and spybot-search and destory
21:25 <ghableska> *destroy
21:25 <n54> ok
21:25 <n54> those are ok
21:25 <ghableska> but norton seemed to cause half the trouble
21:26 <n54> that does not surprise me
21:26 <ghableska> :)
21:26 <n54> do you pay for it or got it for free?
21:26 <ghableska> I got the trial one with the google pack
21:27 <n54> ah ok, just ditch it and use anti-vir or AVG or similar; I prefer this german company: www.free-av.com they have a free version for private use
21:27 <ghableska> hmm
21:28 <ghableska> I still suspect that there are problems, because iTunes was going on about corrupted installations, and the error-checking option won't work
21:28 <n54> there are others too of course *thinks he remembers some topic about it on the armagetron forum*
21:28 <ghableska> and all this happened today :(
21:28 <ghableska> heh
21:28 <n54> yeah it can simply be a hardware problem, old hard-disk?
21:29 <ghableska> might be, though the comp's fairly new
21:29 <ghableska> like 8 months old...
21:29 <n54> oh that's new then
21:29 <ghableska> yup
21:31 <ghableska> i have a feeling that reformatting will help, but I don't want to take such drastic action...
21:32 <n54> not sure what windows system you're running but I think you could use the install disk and do a repair and see if that helps but get rid of norton anyway
21:32 <ghableska> the what?
21:32 <n54> which version of windows
21:32 <ghableska> XP
21:32 <ghableska> see, norton is gone
21:32 <n54> ok I have no knowledge of Xp
21:32 <n54> ah ok
21:32 <ghableska> I was able to remove it after downloading avast
21:32 <n54> good
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:49 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: ok, successfully hacked the wiki
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:50 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Userlogin.php.txt
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:50 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/templates/Userlogin.php
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:51 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/SpecialUserlogin.php.txt
21:33 <wrtlprnft> 18:51 <wrtlprnft> that's includes/SpecialUserlogin.php
21:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: Lucifer_arma 
21:33 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft
21:33 <wrtlprnft> hi
21:33 <n54> hi
21:34 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles: how did the match go?
21:34 <wrtlprnft> 3PMs? wow
21:34 <McSpiddles> it didn't fo
21:34 <McSpiddles> go
21:35 <wrtlprnft> d'oh, 3 times the same PM from 2020
21:35 <ghableska> hehe
21:35 <wrtlprnft> not at all?
21:35 <McSpiddles> no
21:35 <ghableska> was it about the match?
21:35 <McSpiddles> vanhayes said it wasn't scheduled
21:35 <ghableska> because there seemed to be some confusion about the time
21:35 <Vanhayes> hey wrtl
21:35 <ghableska> some people thought it was yesterday, and other's today...
21:35 <ghableska> hi Vanhayes
21:36 <Vanhayes> hwy ghab
21:36 <Vanhayes> hey*
21:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, i talked to 2020 and he said we should try again today
21:36 <ghableska> hmm
21:36 <wrtlprnft> i thought he would take care of spreading the word to you
21:36 <wrtlprnft> or it was an impostor, of course
21:36 <McSpiddles> umm
21:37 <ghableska> possibly...
21:37 <McSpiddles> 2020 said he didn't know about it either
21:37 <Vanhayes> somone said he set it up
21:37 <ghableska> what does the wiki say?
21:37 <Vanhayes> but he said he had no clue
21:37 <Vanhayes> nothing
21:38 <Vanhayes> why didn't any MBC show up on saturday? bad time?
21:38 <wrtlprnft> no
21:38 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't there
21:38 <ghableska> huh
21:38 <wrtlprnft> and noone took care of getting people together
21:39 <Vanhayes> I see
21:39 <Vanhayes> that sucks
21:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:40 <ghableska> so did we or did we not have a match scheduled?
21:40 <Vanhayes> we did
21:40 <ghableska> when?
21:40 <Vanhayes> saturday at 8 pm CDT/ 1am GMT
21:40 <wrtlprnft> 1 hour 40 mins ago and 1 day 1 hour 40 mins ago
21:41 <ghableska> lol
21:41 <Vanhayes> I heard about the one 1 hour ago from lack saying 2020 set it up
21:41 <Vanhayes> but 2020 said he didnt
21:41 <wrtlprnft> so at least there's evidence and it's not just me dreaming
21:41 <Vanhayes> lol
21:42 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: would you mind checking the IP of that guy that logged in as 2020 and seeing if it is the "real" one?
21:42 <Vanhayes> hope it wasn't pimp
21:42 <ghableska> pimp has been quiet recently...
21:42 <wrtlprnft> not sure about the time, but it was on CVS fortress
21:42 <wrtlprnft> haha, he isn't
21:42 <ghableska> ?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> on ct fortress there was a guy that entered as wrt1prnft |mbc|
21:43 <wrtlprnft> just today
21:43 <ghableska> some one has been abusing the 1 thing...
21:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but there's no real cure
21:43 <wrtlprnft> 0 is mapped to o, but 1 can be i or l
21:44 <Vanhayes> btw I'm pretty sure other people can use my name now on CVS
21:44 <wrtlprnft> and it's clearly visible anyways
21:44 <Vanhayes> used my sister's comp with my name and it didn't kick me off
21:45 <wrtlprnft> o, that doesn't matter
21:45 <wrtlprnft> if you'
21:45 <wrtlprnft> re in the same house or same provider it can't notice
21:45 <Vanhayes> ok, nice 
21:45 <wrtlprnft> but if you go to someone else's home you should get kicked
21:46  * wrtlprnft needs a name without a i or l
21:46 <ghableska> happened once to me...
21:46 <ghableska> right Vanhayes?
21:46 <Vanhayes> lol
21:46 <Vanhayes> ya
21:46 <wrtlprnft> people know it, they just like the "kcik"
21:46 <ghableska> it only banned me AFTER I left the server though
21:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:46 <ghableska> it didn't kick me straightaway
21:46 <Vanhayes> u left before u got kicked
21:46 <wrtlprnft> it's a script that writes everytime.cfg
21:46 <ghableska> oh
21:46 <wrtlprnft> so it'll get applied when the round ends
21:47 <McSpiddles> that kick ban thing isn't really all that good
21:47 <wrtlprnft> it reads the logs and generates everytime.cfg out of it
21:47 <Vanhayes> it sucked tho I got kicked when a bunch of people got kicked from impersonating
21:47 <McSpiddles> when they kick me i do a mac clone
21:47 <McSpiddles> then i can get back in :p
21:47 <ghableska> Vanhayes, I think macattack hates you now
21:47 <Vanhayes> lol "when they kick me" not if they kick me
21:48 <ghableska> at least the server stops you from changing your name after a poll...
21:48 <wrtlprnft> macattack is an idiot IMHO
21:48 <Vanhayes> yup
21:48 <McSpiddles> well
21:48 <McSpiddles> there's a bug in that to
21:48 <McSpiddles> i changed my name after a poll was started
21:48 <McSpiddles> my name in the server didn't change
21:48 <McSpiddles> but the poll name changed
21:48 <ghableska> oh
21:49 <Vanhayes> weird
21:49 <wrtlprnft> oh, that sucks
21:49 <wrtlprnft> cry BUG in that case
21:49 <McSpiddles> lol
21:49 <wrtlprnft> well, it IS a bug
21:49 <Vanhayes> o ya do u know why the team changed from blue to red?
21:49 <McSpiddles> i'm not complaning,it stopped me from changing my ip again
21:49 <ghableska> heh
21:49 <Vanhayes> seems random
21:50 <ghableska> so...
21:51 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47772#47772
21:51 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:51 <ghableska> heh, luci's reaction
21:51 <McSpiddles> http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7443/tron21ad.jpg
21:52  * wrtlprnft wants to see that wiki page
21:52 <ghableska> gah
21:52 <ghableska> it was funnier when pimp tried to copy him
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you mean 2o2o2?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> or 2O2O
21:52 <ghableska> yes
21:52 <ghableska> aka Guest
21:53 <wrtlprnft> aka "I am a fake"
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the ava he deleted later
21:53 <ghableska> heh
21:55 <ghableska> and 2020 already wants the ladle to start...
21:55 <ghableska> before the spoon is even over
21:55 <Vanhayes> ya he is a little Too optimistic
21:55 <wrtlprnft> better not
21:55 <wrtlprnft> wait at least two months
21:55 <Vanhayes> says it starts june 24th 
21:55 <ghableska> too soon..
21:55 <Vanhayes> yup
21:55 <wrtlprnft> i wouldn't be there
21:56 <wrtlprnft> that's right around the time i go back to germany
21:56 <Vanhayes> leaving Canada :(
21:56 <wrtlprnft> D:
21:56 <Vanhayes> for good?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> (you have to turn your head the other way for D: )
21:57 <ghableska> ;)
21:57 <Vanhayes> lol
21:57 <wrtlprnft> it'll be nice back there too, though
21:57 <ghableska> where in germany?
21:57 <wrtlprnft> munich
21:57 <ghableska> good pings ;)
21:57 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:57 <wrtlprnft> sec
21:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, i can't send a normal ping to z-man's server?
21:59 <wrtlprnft> but it will be under 100, definitely
22:00  * ghableska yawns
22:00 <ghableska> goodnight everyone
22:00 <n54> cya :)
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22:07 <Vanhayes> ya im calling it a night cya
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22:27 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:27 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:28 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:28  * Lucifer_arma starts school again in a week
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> make it a week and a half.  May 30
22:30 <n54> so soon?
22:31 <n54> are you racing towards a uni entrance in the autumn or something like that?
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, yes, but, ummm
22:42 <Lucifer_arma> see, I didn't take a class last summer and nearly went crazy :)
22:43 <Lucifer_arma> and I do want to get into UT asap.  I probably won't take summer classes when I get there, but I'll have 4 semesters left when I do.
22:43 <n54> ok :)
22:44 <n54> only 4... bachelors degree?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> yessir
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> it's like this.  :)
22:44 <n54> :)
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> First, get bachelor's in Aerospace Engineering.  Then, try to find job.
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> If(! jobFound() ) getMasters();
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> then try to find a job again.
22:45 <n54> yeah that's sensible imo
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> if (! jobFound() ) getDoctorate();
22:45 <n54> :)
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> the thing about postgraduate studies is that funding is easier to get, if your undergraduate record is good.
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> and Aerospace Engineering in particular might require a master's or phd to get a job
22:46 <n54> and doing it like that will both provide time for stuff to sink in as well as getting some real hand-on experience
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm going to push robotics as my technical elective as much as possible.  So Aerospace Engineering with and emphasis on space, and robotics.
22:47 <n54> although i had hands-on experience before I started my bachelors degree (that got slahes by my illness very early on) and it nearly drove me crazy (there's a lot of bs going on at uni)
22:47 <n54> ok
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> with a standing record as a programmer, my best employment opportunities are probably going to be using my degr