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Log from 2006-05-30:
--- Day changed Tue May 30 2006
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> it gets better.  :)  As you get better and you can better articulate your thoughts with it, it just gets better.
00:00 <GodTodd> and who knows....maybe it'll be like i was born with an axe in my hands ;) haha
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> :)
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> the only real problem I have with it these days is the feeling I get when I play and I'm out of practice
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> you know, when real life takes me away from my guitar for an extended period (like it has recently)
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> then when I pick it back up, I have to recover a certain amount of skill.  I think in my head that I can do this stuff, but I physically can't without building back up to it
00:02 <GodTodd> true....but it's easier to pick it up again than it is to pick it up the first time, i'd imagine
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> and that difference in thought compared to what I can do is quite frustrating
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, a lot better.  I think of it like leveling in D&D or something.  You lose all your XPs that you earned on the way to the next level, but you don't lose the level.
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> but you do have to start over for reaching the next level, and it's harder to reach the next level with time.
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> The big difficulty in the beginning is having the discipline to work on it, then it feels like you're learning faster, but you're not, I think you're actually learning slower if anything
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> but the pace seems to pick up, and it's just things coming together.
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> of course, living alone, being single and broke helps a lot when you're starting, and you're none of those things.  :)
00:04  * Lucifer_arma used to play for 3+ hours a day when he was single, broke, and lived alone
00:08 <GodTodd> yeah...but i think i could work in some practice time
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> the main thiing is to not stress out about your progress.  I dont' think there's a huge difference between practicing an hour a day compared to 3 hours a day,
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> other than building up stamina
00:09 <GodTodd> true
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> but there is quite a difference between 15 minutes a day and an hour a day
00:09 <GodTodd> what's the best way to learn? I mean i know it's essentially a personal thing...but there has to be a recommended starting point
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> still, a whole hour can be hard to come by.  2 hours every 2-3 days would be pretty useful, and then maybe 10 minutes of exercises to avoid losing the physical buildup
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> hmm.  To be honest, you might be perfectly happy starting where I did, with the tab book for And Justice For All
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> I consider that a textbook on how to play heavy metal, and most of the songs are slow enough that you can reasonably achieve them in a few months
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> in my first year of playing, I could play half that album
00:10 <GodTodd> yeah...i was thinking tabs....that's how i started when i had my acoustic
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> that was when I was still in High School.  :)
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> check out OLGA.  www.olga.net iirc
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> lots of good stuff there, most of it's pretty good quality too
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, really.  You want the music you play to match up with what you like to listen to, that's most important.
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's harder to keep discipline and learn when you're learning something that has nothing to do with what you hear.
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> if I'd had to take lessons, where they teach blues, I probably wouldn't still play.  I was a metalhead, still am a metalhead, and always will be.  I play guitar so I can play metal, why start anwhere but there?
00:13 <GodTodd> yep...that's what i plan on :)
00:14 <GodTodd> i couldn't be anything but a metalhead honestly
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> :)  where to start is another topic that common guitar playing wisdom inadequately covers
00:14 <GodTodd> truly
00:14 <Lucifer_arma> especially when all the really great guitar players you hear about all started in the same place:  the music they listened to
00:14 <GodTodd> looks like olga would be as good a place as any :)
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> lots of good metal.  The tab for Come to the Sabbath in particular is really good.  :)  And surprisingly easy, if you get the timing pretty well.
00:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: ?
00:58 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
01:14 <n54> *yawn* morning all
01:47 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:53 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:01 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> ack, glancing is weird
02:24 <spidey> lol
02:24 <spidey> i switched distros
02:24 <spidey> :/
02:24 <spidey> Linux version 2.6.15-1-586tsc (Debian 2.6.15-3.ww1) (ww@mepis.org) (gcc version 4.0.3 20051201 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.2-5)) #2 PREEMPT Wed Feb 1 17:40:51 EST 2006
02:24 <spidey> i like mepis better than ubuntu
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> z-man you beating around right now?
02:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:37 <spidey> lol
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> guess not
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: you beating around right now?
02:42  * n54 beats Lucifer around :P
02:45 <spidey> lol
02:45 <spidey> n54 come in cvs
02:46 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going back in, but I must warn you, I'm not understanding glance right now.  It's changed in the trunk...
02:47 <spidey> heh]
02:47 <spidey> bkue needs help
02:47 <n54> sorry spidey can't right now, perhaps later in the week ^^
02:48 <spidey> :(
03:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: I hope you don't mind, I'm adding to and modifying the resource system wiki page
03:17 <spidey> he;s in tron
03:17 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: not deleting anything, though-- closest is rearranging to show Luci's opinion vs current vs Luke's opinion and such
03:18 <Lucifer_arma> depends on how much you want to massacre it :)
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> spec documents don't contain debate, though.  you should take it to the forum thread and talk about it if what you want to add is contrary to what's there
03:23 <Luke-Jr> since we're going with only supporting XML for resources now, should we have a tResource vs tXmlResource?
03:27 <spidey> zomg
03:27 <Lucifer_arma> ?  tXmlResource was made under the mistaken belief we'd have non-xml resources
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> but since it was pointed out to me that that's not the case, it just needs to be renamed to tResource, which is by consensus afaik
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, Luke-Jr, sorry for dogging on you over acme.  I was wrong, you were right, don't expect me to say that much.  :)
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> also, the interface provided by tResource doesn't change whether or not there's an xml file under it, that's part of the spec so that resources have a common interface for tResourceManager to use
03:36 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: ok, I was referring to the wiki page
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: if the wiki page still says "tXmlResource" anywhere, it's a bug.  :)  Should be replaced with tResource
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> what code changes need to be made are beyond my current knowledge.  I don't know if tResource should have an instance of tXmlParser or if it should inherit it.
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft makes a good argument for having it as an instance instead.  I'm not terribly worried aobut it, it doesn't really change how the system's supposed to work
03:59 <Luke-Jr> guru3: when is the domain up for renewal?
04:00 <guru3> shortly
04:00 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:00 <Luke-Jr> too shortly to do real-world tests on usage?
04:00 <guru3> a week or two
04:01 <Luke-Jr> ok, so how about I setup a everydns to resolve both A and AAAA on www. and we see if it impacts IPv6 usage?
04:01 <Luke-Jr> and you just point www. at everydns via NS
04:01 <guru3> can't do that
04:01 <Luke-Jr> why?
04:01 <guru3> i don't choose the ns
04:01 <Luke-Jr> eh? IIRC, you added a NS entry for authservers.
04:01 <guru3> no
04:02 <Luke-Jr> authservers.armagetronad.net. 60 IN     NS      ns01.dashjr.org.
04:02 <guru3> i wonder how that happened
04:03 <guru3> authservers.armagetronad.net does not exist, try again
04:03 <guru3> i think that only exists in luke land
04:03 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:03 <Luke-Jr> dig NS authservers.armagetronad.net
04:03 <guru3> dig NS?
04:03 <Luke-Jr> NS record
04:04 <guru3> it doesn't have a record record
04:04 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:07 <Luke-Jr> no-ip doesn't list it?
04:07 <guru3> i don't think i ever created it
04:10 <Luke-Jr> hm
04:10 <Luke-Jr> okay, you're right
04:10 <Luke-Jr> it only exists in my world
04:11  * Luke-Jr read logs
04:11  * Luke-Jr then realized his DNS server was intercepting the request
04:11 <Luke-Jr> yet another reason to drop no-ip :/
04:12 <Luke-Jr> we can't even workaround its problems
04:12 <guru3> i don't call it a problem
04:13 <Luke-Jr> ...
04:13 <Luke-Jr> its sub-standard functionality, then
04:13 <Luke-Jr> I'd call it a problem, since NS is a key element to DNS
04:14 <guru3> we don't need to use every feature known to mak of dns
04:14 <guru3> mak = man
04:15 <Luke-Jr> without NS, you don't have a working DNS
04:15 <guru3> no-ip is the whole deal
04:15 <Luke-Jr> no-ip is simply expensive garbage, from the sound of it
04:15 <guru3> ok you've stated your opinion
04:16 <Luke-Jr> and the objective fact (that it lacks even standard functionality)
04:16 <Luke-Jr> (and is a rip-off in cost)
04:17 <guru3> it's not been a problem yet
04:19 <Luke-Jr> sure it has
04:19 <Luke-Jr> it just prevented us from even trialing IPv6 usage
04:19 <guru3> which no one will use anyway
04:19 <Luke-Jr> and it would make any kind of 4LD use impossible
04:19 <Luke-Jr> you can't know
04:19 <guru3> which we don't need
04:19 <Luke-Jr> don't right now, you mean
04:20 <guru3> we don't have to offer every service known to man
04:25 <Luke-Jr> actually, maybe we can do IPv6 trialing
04:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
04:25 <Luke-Jr> there, in just a little bit, www-aa.dashjr.org will do A/AAAA for www
04:25 <Luke-Jr> then you can just CNAME www to it and we'll have some real stats
04:25 <Luke-Jr> (but not too soon, or it will resolve to my server)
04:45 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873C2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
04:48 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
05:05  * Lucifer_arma notes that performance is a big deal
05:06  * Luke-Jr notes performance is fine
05:15 <Luke-Jr> www-aa seems to be propagated everywhere now, BTW
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> I like how we say "we're not changing our minds" and Luke keeps at it
05:22 <Luke-Jr> I don't like idiotic decisions
05:23 <Luke-Jr> even if it did turn out to be trivial
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> so waste your time, then.  That's a *smart* decision.
05:23 <Luke-Jr> I'm "wasting" my time because I don't think it will be as trivial as guru3 assumes
05:24 <spidey> lmao
05:24 <spidey> you two are funny :p
05:25 <Luke-Jr> note the low # of IPv6 hits is not only likely due to the different domain name, but also because that domain name is not published anywhere
05:25 <Lucifer_arma> I get so sick of this "we need all these bells and whistles". fact is, I'll be we're not even using half of what we've got in any service.
05:25 <Luke-Jr> I had to get it from my logs
05:25 <Luke-Jr> we would be using AAAA records if no-ip supported it, but we can't
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> I hear this crap from everywhere.  GodTodd and I were tlaking about guitars.  I'll bet LUke would object to buying a $150 guitar for someone who just plays at home,
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> insisting on the $1500 les paul or whatever
05:26 <spidey> lol
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> because the les paul comes with <this other stuff you don't need unless you're touring>
05:26 <Lucifer_arma> do you build your own cars, Luke-Jr ?  Funny how every solution you've got involves us coding more.
05:27 <Luke-Jr> did you read what I just said? ...
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> or us doing <this much more work>
05:27 <Luke-Jr> we are limited by no-ip already, and would be using the features it lacks
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> where?  where would we be using it?
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> for code that doesn't exist yet?
05:27 <Luke-Jr> AAAA records
05:27 <Luke-Jr> for people going to the website
05:27 <Lucifer_arma> for code that when it does exist has to be used by everybody else, somehow?
05:28 <Luke-Jr> code doesn't come into the picture
05:28 <Lucifer_arma> why do we need that stuff for the website?  I haven't heard anybody complaining about how it is
05:28 <Luke-Jr> for IPv6 access
05:29 <Luke-Jr> most people who have IPv6 access also have IPv4 access at least indirectly
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> so of the 3 people in the world that have ipv6 access, 2 of them have ipv4 access at least indirectly?
05:30 <Luke-Jr> at least 2 of every 3 do
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> and how is our system broke, then?  Sounds like there isn't really a problem.
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> More importantly, how much does it matter?  No-ip is a DNS solutions provider, check their website.  They have to offer this service sooner or later
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> and since it doesn't hurt us in the meantime, why bother worrying about it?  We've got more important things to worry about.
05:31 <Luke-Jr> 250% cost
05:32 <Luke-Jr> and a year of limitations at a time
05:32 <Luke-Jr> when we could easily transfer the domain and solve it
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> whoopee.  Do you realize how much of a difference there actually is between $10 and $35 on a yearly bill?
05:33 <Luke-Jr> 250% :)
05:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 35/12
05:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 35 / 12 = 2.91666667
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> $2.91 a month
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> that's not affordable?
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> and better uptime than pretty much anybody else.
05:34 <Luke-Jr> 3% of the $300 to 12%
05:34 <Lucifer_arma> moreover, you won't have someone domain squatting if you fail to renew your domain on time
05:35 <Luke-Jr> DNS doesn't need uptime on a single server
05:35 <Luke-Jr> everyone supports auto-renewal...
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> no-ip doesn't, and that's a good thing.  Because it means they're not keeping your credit card number.
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> (actually, I think they are, but I don't remember right off the top of my head, either)
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> furthermore, no-ip supports Free Software both with code and with money.
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> they only use Free Software
05:36 <Luke-Jr> using it doesn't support it
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> <Lucifer_arma> furthermore, no-ip supports Free Software both with code and with money.
05:36 <Luke-Jr> I don't think I've seen no-ip's administrative interface as source code anywhere
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried asking them for it?  They might give it to you...
05:37 <Luke-Jr> IIRC, guru3 asked them to support 3LD a while ago
05:37 <Luke-Jr> oh, the source
05:37 <Luke-Jr> haha, I'm tired x.x
05:38 <Luke-Jr> I doubt it
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> more importantly, what they actually support with code and money is stuff like BIND (or whatever they use, I forget), postfix, and other stuff
05:38 <Lucifer_arma> you doubt it, but you don't know.  Not that it matters, all the software they actually release is open soruce, afaik.
05:39 <Luke-Jr> their updater client is?
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> unless they changed the license recently, yeah.  :)
05:39 <Luke-Jr> any way, we're a donation run project-- it's kinda redundant to spend donated funds on a for-profit company which donates *some* of that to other similar groups
05:40 <Luke-Jr> at least, not as a reason to spend 250% more
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> and what for-profit company did you have in mind?
05:40 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's just one reason among many
05:41 <Luke-Jr> the only advantage anyone's given to using no-ip other than that is that we're already using them
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> not that you've been paying attention or anything, otherwise you wouldn't have said something as idiotic as "Well, no-ip's lookups sure are fast, but I can do better, although they won't be as fast"
05:41 <Luke-Jr> I didn't
05:41 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I've just given a number of reasons for using them, and you've completely ignored them
05:41  * n54 doesn't mind if donated money is spent on essentials and even better; essentials from companies that are better than most like no-ip and freenode
05:42 <n54> not that I'm that familiar with no-ip - but I know freenode fairly well :)
05:42 <Luke-Jr> n54: at 250% more cost?
05:42 <n54> compared to what?
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> in the same post, you said both of these things:
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> MyDomain+me can do a much better level of service. I'm sure others would fare just as well.
05:42 <Luke-Jr> no-ip query times 68-71 ms
05:42 <Lucifer_arma> My primary DNS server is obviously going to be as slow as everything else I host,
05:43 <Luke-Jr> everydns query times 61-62 ms
05:43 <n54> Luke if you want me to understand your argument you've got to specify what you're comparing no-ip with to get 250%
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> no-ip is a good company, that's for sure
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> n54: it's his basket of stuff we dont' need :)
05:43 <Luke-Jr> primary DNS server is one of many, and can be omitted from the NS list
05:43 <Luke-Jr> n54: generally all domain registrars are around $10/yr
05:43 <Lucifer_arma> you can change that information in no-ip, actually, and host your own authoritative dns server
05:44 <Lucifer_arma> except for the ones that offer value-added services in connection to said domain registration
05:44 <n54> well I've already seen some hidden costs in this little bit of the discussion so far Luke and I'm not impressed with the argument that you can find cheaper money-wise -- money isn't everything and it's cheaper for a reason
05:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  and turning numbers into percentages isn't impressive.  :)
05:45 <Luke-Jr> n54: many alternatives are cheaper *and* better, that's the point
05:45 <z-man-work> Gee, boost is still compiling
05:46 -!- z-man-work is now known as z-man
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> how long's it been going?
05:46 <n54> there's an expression in norway that I'm sure there's an english equivalent of: don't save yourself poor (the english one goes something like save a dime to spend a dollar)
05:46 <Luke-Jr> n54: you're not making any sense, you know...
05:46  * z-man thinks the DNS discussion already wasted more time than worth it
05:46 <Luke-Jr> we're saving $25 or so and getting better services
05:46  * Lucifer_arma agrees but keeps letting himself get sucked into it, heh
05:47 <Luke-Jr> z-man: probably, I don't know why guru3 & Lucifer_arma insist on sticking with crappy service
05:47  * z-man doesn't know enough about the facettes of DNS and no-ip's services in particular
05:47 <z-man> and I don't intend to change that just to get sucked into this time-waster as well :)
05:48  * Luke-Jr knows no-ip's restrictions from discussions with guru3 trying to do stuff and being unable because of no-ip
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> here's something more important.  How does glancing work in the trunk?  anybody know?
05:48 <n54> I could offer cheaper irc than freenode, and anything and everything anyone wants enabled? Now would it be a good idea? absolutely not and figuring out the myriad reasons are left as an exercise done in private
05:48 <Luke-Jr> n54: horrible comparison
05:49 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: has wrtl merged meritons changes?
05:49 <n54> so is your 250% luke
05:49 <Luke-Jr> nonsense
05:49 <Lucifer_arma> I suspect so, it is changed since my last cvs update, which wsn't too long before the migration
05:50 <Luke-Jr> n54: think of it like you choosing to buy WinXP Home for $1000 instead of WinXP Pro for $25
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to figure out if I should view the behavior I've got as a bug or a misunderstanding on my part :)
05:50 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1000/25 * 100
05:50 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (1,000 / 25) * 100 = 4,000
05:50 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: I'll check it.
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> that's 4000%, Luke-Jr.  Not the same thing at all.
05:51 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: same stuff, spending more for less
05:51 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not the same stuff.  That's a downright shitty comparison.
05:52 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
05:52 -!- mode/#armagetron [+m] by guru3
05:52 <@guru3> now be quiet about the dns stuff
05:53 <@guru3> ok?
05:53 <@guru3> glad that's settled
05:54 -!- mode/#armagetron [-m] by guru3
05:54 <z-man> hehe, wd.
05:54 <Luke-Jr> n54: think of it like you choosing to buy WinXP Home for $350 instead of WinXP Pro for $100
05:54 <Luke-Jr> =p
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> I like how you don't know he's there until it says "guru3 is now God"
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> calc 2 starts in 4.5 hours
05:55 <@guru3> fun calc
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> 4 days a week for 11 weeks
05:55 <@guru3> ouchies
05:55 <Lucifer_arma> 10:35am->11:50am
05:55 <Luke-Jr> guru3: didn't you want to learn BIND anyway ;)
05:55 <@guru3> hell no
05:56  * Lucifer_arma reminds himself he was going to the store tonight
05:57 <Luke-Jr> Aug 18 20:25:57 <guru3> i should learn bind...
05:57 <@guru3> what year was that?
05:57 <Luke-Jr> 2005, I think
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> had to be last year
05:58 <@guru3> i was young and foolish then
05:58 <Luke-Jr> lol
05:58 <Luke-Jr> it's easy
05:58 <Lucifer_arma> now he's young and wise, apparently :)
05:58  * Lucifer_arma has toyed with the idea of setting up a local dns server, but now his ISP has become reliable again for DNS
05:59  * Luke-Jr calls guru3's mom to explain the whole domain matter <.<
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> that call will cost more than the difference in price
05:59 <@guru3> haha
05:59 <Luke-Jr> doubt it
06:00  * Lucifer_arma notes that VOIP calls to Europe aren't free
06:00 <Luke-Jr> even if it were a high per-minute cost, she'd probably be like "wtf who are you dont bug me" and hang up
06:00  * Luke-Jr notes that they're still 1.3 cents/min
06:00 <Luke-Jr> at least to most Europe
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> #g 2500/1.3
06:00 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 2,500 / 1.3 = 1,923.07692
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> So you can talk to her for 1,923 minutes
06:01 <Luke-Jr> #g 1923 / 60
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> that's your yearly budget for talking to guru3's mom
06:01 <Luke-Jr> #g 1923/60
06:01 <Luke-Jr> foo bot
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1923/60
06:01 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 1,923 / 60 = 32.05
06:01  * Luke-Jr doesn't plan to spend over a day on the phone w/ guru3's mom
06:01 <@guru3> good
06:01 <Luke-Jr> that would probably freak guru3 out a bit much
06:01 <Luke-Jr> hehe
06:01 <@guru3> cause i'd kill ya if you did
06:01 <Luke-Jr> lol
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> nah, he'd post the mp3 so we could all hear her chewing Luke-Jr a new asshole ourselves
06:02 <@guru3> :/
06:02 <Luke-Jr> presuming she didn't agree
06:02 <Luke-Jr> not to mention that I'm probably the only one recording calls
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> he'd get the recording from the swedish police
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, it finished building the kernel already
06:03 <Luke-Jr> they record everything?
06:03 <Luke-Jr> kernel isn't a long compile
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> amazing how fast that goes when you don't keep killing it to play tron
06:05  * Lucifer_arma has heard some pretty nasty things about Swedish police, so it wouldn't surprise him if they recorded international calls.
06:05 <z-man> whoops, seems like my new FTGL detection broke the trunk
06:05 <Luke-Jr> stuff generally goes slower when it's being constantly killed
06:05 <n54> heh like what?
06:05 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: VoIP calls are probably not considered international ;)
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> it was an article you linked, n54, wasn't it?  About immigration?
06:05 <n54> doubt it
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> immigration in scandinavian countries?
06:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah it was!
06:06 <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:06 <Luke-Jr> more likely that's you n54 =p
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's not in my url catcher, but it was quite awhile ago
06:06 <Luke-Jr> "Don't you know who I am?"
06:06 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I stumbled across it some other way
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
06:07 <Luke-Jr> "I'm the Juggernaut, b*%&#!"
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last n54 --nolimit
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last --from n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [06:06:04] <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> what?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> #last --from n54
06:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: [06:06:04] <n54> I'm beginning to think you can't read :)
06:07 <Luke-Jr> ...
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> what does that say?  can anybody tell me?
06:07 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that joke's funnier in person
06:08 <Luke-Jr> oh, haha...
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> bbiab, smoking and some other stuff
06:13 <z-man> Great, pkg-config ftgl --cflags doesn't give the include path to the FTGL includes themselves
06:19  * Lucifer_arma hasn't been terribly impressed with pkg-config
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to be broke more often than not
07:11 <Lucifer_arma> man, there's some good mazing players on fortress right now
07:29 -!- Luke-Jr [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Excess Flood]
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--- Log opened Tue May 30 07:52:43 2006
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07:52 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
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07:53 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
08:14 <wrtlprnft> Yet Another Stupid Useless Discussion Started By Luke-Jr 
08:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  did you merge in meriton's camera stuff?
08:17  * Lucifer_arma is away: going to the store
08:24  * z-man wonders what "THE store" is
08:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: see my post
08:25 <wrtlprnft> i accidently committed it
08:26 <wrtlprnft> i had it in my checkout when i was doing some cockpit stuff, and i accidently committed the wrong files
08:27 <z-man> never mind, I'd say it should be in anyway
08:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but then I have to merge the changes that were there
08:27 <z-man> Right :) Your messup, your job.
08:27  * z-man always likes to push work to others.
08:27 <wrtlprnft> meriton used some branch version from march as a base and i just overwrote all changes since then
08:28 <wrtlprnft> ni, it's fine with me and in my interest
08:28 <wrtlprnft> i was using it all the time and getting annoyed by always manually replacing those files
08:28 <wrtlprnft> and worried since they might grow incompatible at some time
08:30 <z-man> Should I try to find out what SVN revision meriton's code was based on?
08:33 <wrtlprnft> how would that help? I can just diff the revision with my accidential committ and the version before
08:33 <wrtlprnft>  Description:glancing code (branched on 20060320)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> which means I'd just have to search for the last change before that date :)
08:34 <z-man> That's what I just did :)
08:34 <z-man> You're in luck, all branches were in sync at that time.
08:34 <wrtlprnft> :)
08:34 <wrtlprnft> thanks
08:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll do it this afternoon, gotta go in 20 minutes
08:35 <z-man> The revision is 4264
08:35 <z-man> Revision <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad?rev=4264&amp;view=rev"><strong>4264</strong></a> -
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=markup&amp;rev=4264">view</a>)
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?rev=4264">download</a>)
08:35 <z-man> (<a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?annotate=4264">annotate</a>)
08:35 <z-man> - <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?r1=4264&amp;view=log">[select for diffs]</a>
08:35 <z-man> <br>
08:35 <z-man> Modified
08:35 <z-man> <em>Sat Mar 25 23:13:26 2006 UTC</em> (2 months ago) by <em>z-man</em>
08:36 <z-man> <br>Original Path: <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=log&amp;pathrev=4264"><em>armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.cpp</em></a>
08:36 <z-man> <br>File length: 68717 byte(s)
08:36 <z-man> <br>Diff to <a href="http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?r1=4093&amp;r2=4264">previous 4093</a>
08:36 <wrtlprnft> i need a irc client that supports html i guess
08:36 <z-man> <pre class="vc_log">merged changes from b0_2_8 branch with -j v0_2_8_0_rc4_merged_to_b0_2_8 -j v0_2_8_1_merged_to_b0_2_8
08:36 <z-man> </pre>
08:36 <z-man> Eek, sorry
08:36 <z-man> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.cpp?view=markup&rev=4264
08:36 <z-man> Better not :)
08:36 <wrtlprnft> just the last uri?
08:36 <z-man> Just that one
08:36 <wrtlprnft> ok, i was already worried ;)
08:37 <z-man> I'd like it if a copy/paste from a web browser would get rid of that HTML :)
08:41 <wrtlprnft> it should?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> does for me...
08:42 <z-man> Apparently, firefox has a different policy.
08:42 <z-man> Sorry, the revision is wrong :(
08:42 <z-man> There is some of Lucifer's microphone stuff in it that's missing from meriton's base version.
08:43 <wrtlprnft> why can't i just diff the revision i committed and the one before that?
08:43 <z-man> That would just revert all changes, wouldn't it?
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> I like the camera, I'm just confused is all
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> microphone stuff?
08:43 <z-man> Sound
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> ah
08:44  * Lucifer_arma doesn't think it will matter
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> have you had a problem with it?
08:44 <wrtlprnft> why? I could just say gvimdiff <revisionbefore> <currentrevision>
08:44 <z-man> No, but wrtlprnft also overwrote all bugfixes.
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> he didn't overwrite my playlist bugfix :)
08:45 <wrtlprnft> all bugfixes in eCamera.*
08:45 <z-man> That wasn't in eCamera.cpp :)
08:45 <z-man> Actually, the sound still crashes on me on exit with some bad memory stuff. I'll get back to you when I know details.
08:45 <z-man> It's definitely our problem, not arts :)
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> sound?  Hmmm........
08:46  * Lucifer_arma isn't getting an exit crash :/
08:46 <z-man> #0  0x0000000000524c08 in eChannel::GetOwner (this=0xbadf00d0badf00d) at eChannel.h:119
08:46 <z-man> #1  0x00000000005230c5 in eSoundMixer::RemoveContinuous (this=0xe54d70, soundEffect=11, owner=0xfb2d38)
08:46 <z-man>     at ../../../../armagetronad/src/engine/eSoundMixer.cpp:454
08:46 <z-man> #2  0x0000000000415688 in ~gCycle (this=0xfb2d38) at ../../../../armagetronad/src/tron/gCycle.cpp:1453
08:46 <z-man> #3  0x000000000053513c in nNetObject::Release (this=0xfb2d88)
08:46 <z-man>     at ../../../../armagetronad/src/network/nNetObject.cpp:582
08:46 <z-man> backtrace.
08:46 <z-man> As you see, the this pointer in eChannel::GetOwner is bad :)
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> eSoundMixer::RemoveContinuous is supposed to be disabled with an early return
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> because that pointer is bad :)
08:47  * Lucifer_arma wonders if that's another fix that got clobbered when the playlist fix was originally clobbered
08:47 <z-man> probably
08:47  * z-man has the nasty feeling he was the clobberer
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> the *Continuous stuff didn't pan out (no pun intended), and I've been trying to rethink it
08:47 <wrtlprnft> at least I'm not the only one killing bugfixes ;)
08:48 <z-man> Well, who knows?
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> heh, this happened awhile ago.  I don't even know when, just that it was long enough between my own updates that it couldn't be pinpointed usefully
08:50 <z-man> svn diff says I didn't clobber anything in the last four months.
08:51 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: must have been you yourself :)
08:51 <wrtlprnft> ok, g2g, cya
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> it's possible I fixed it locally and forgot to commit :)
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> the only I know for sure is that when I fixed it yesterday, I could clearly remember having fixed it before ;)
08:52  * Lucifer_arma is back.
08:52 <wrtlprnft> oh, really
08:52  * wrtlprnft is really away now
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm starting my calc 2 class with a virgin notebook :)
08:55 <z-man> Hope you remember everything from calc 1 :)
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> haha :)
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> I bought pencils that came with 5 spare erasers.  as long as I can keep them away from my wife, I should be fine.  :)
08:57 <z-man> Is she a pencil eater?
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, I don't know
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> see, we had this pack of shiny new pencils, 11, and I had taken out 2 to put in my backpack, 1 to work with, and 1 spare, right?
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> I used those same two pencils for a whole semester :)
08:58 <z-man> Ok
08:59 <z-man> And the pack is now mysteriously empty.
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> she starts school, and within a month, all 9 of the remaining pencils had completely disappeared along with the spare pack of lead
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I bitched really loudly, because I discovered the situation on the morning my 2 pencils finally gave up their last lead and I had a test
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> for the next two weeks, the pencils started to appear, with their erasers rubbed all the way down and completely empty of lead
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> so I grabbed what I could and am in the process of assembling a secret cache of lead and erasers
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> she can trash pencils if she wants, that's her problem.  :)
09:00 <z-man> har
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> my cache will ultimately include pencils that take both kinds of lead and preferably the most common erasers so I can steal a little bit of her supply when needed
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> she won't notice me taking a few in that vast ocean of waste she's got going
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's the same with paper, only I've chosen paper incompatible with her own note-taking habits to make sure we don't collide on that :)
09:03 <z-man> Don't underestimate female intuition. If you accidentally pick her favorite rubber, which is of course completely indistinguishable from the rest, she'll go berserk :)
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> she has 2 staplers, count 'em, 2.  I have 1, and she still tries to borrow it.  "No honey, you have 2 staplers, find one of them"
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's true.
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> Luckily I'm keeping a public stockpile of pencils that she's completely aware of in an attempt to keep her from discovering the secret cache
09:05 <z-man> One of my distinct relatives was saint to always have a bar of gold lying beside the bed so potential thieves can grab that and go away and don't look further for valuables :)
09:05 <z-man> Luckily, he was never robbed, they say.
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  smart guy :)
09:08 <z-man> Ok, back to work.
09:08 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: I'm not getting email notifications from the forums anymore
09:30 <@guru3> oops i guess
09:30 <@guru3> i'll look into it at some point
09:53  * Lucifer_arma is away: school
10:16 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
10:28  * wrtlprnft needs help with svn :(
10:28 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn update -r 4093 src/engine/eCamera.h
10:28 <wrtlprnft> D    src/engine/eCamera.h
10:28 <wrtlprnft> Updated to revision 4093.
10:29 <wrtlprnft> why is it deleting it?
10:30 <wrtlprnft> svn log says that revision exists
10:30 <wrtlprnft> same problem if i give it a date
10:37 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: that revision may only exist on another branch
10:38 <z-man-work> what does"svn info" say?
10:38 <z-man-work> what's the URL?
10:42 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn info src/engine/eCamera.h
10:42 <wrtlprnft> URL: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:42 <wrtlprnft> Revision: 4628
10:43 <z-man-work> Ah, back at that revision, the URI was different
10:43 <z-man-work> that was before Luke moved stuff around
10:43 <wrtlprnft> teah, sure
10:44 <wrtlprnft> *yeah
10:44 <wrtlprnft> sure it was before luke moved anything
10:45 <z-man-work> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h?view=markup&rev=886
10:45 <z-man-work> Original Path: armagetronad/trunk/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:46 <z-man-work> gaa, wrong revision
10:46 <z-man-work> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/engine/eCamera.h?view=markup&rev=4607
10:46 <z-man-work> armagetronad/branches/b0_2_8/src/engine/eCamera.h
10:46 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i don't want the branch...
10:47 <wrtlprnft> i'd like the last version in the trunk before my accidential commit
10:50 <z-man-work> sorry, of course. use
10:50 <z-man-work> svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine
10:50 <z-man-work> to get the whole directory
10:51 <z-man-work> I don't know right now how to get a single file.
10:51 <wrtlprnft> hmm, guess it's fine for me
10:52 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop $ svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine
10:52 <wrtlprnft> svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/armagetronad/!svn/bc/4628/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine'
10:52 <wrtlprnft> svn: '/svnroot/armagetronad/!svn/bc/4628/armagetronad/trunk/src/engine' path not found
10:53 <wrtlprnft> uh, is CVS still up readonly?
10:53 <wrtlprnft> then i'd just get the file from there :)
10:54 <z-man-work> Yes, CVS is still up.
10:54 <wrtlprnft> :)
10:56 <wrtlprnft> g2g, thanks for your help
10:56 <z-man-work> np
11:37 <Luke-Jr> svn co -r 4093 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/engine
11:48 <z-man-work> Luke-Jr: tested that? :)
12:12 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:23  * Lucifer_arma is back.
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> did svn update right before starting the build, which was last night around 10pm CDT
12:26 <Lucifer_arma> oops, wrong channel
12:47  * Lucifer_arma thinks he likes saying "trunk" better than "head"
12:50 <z-man-work> They mean different things. trunk is the main branch, and head is the latest revision therein. End of nitpick.
12:51 <z-man-work> Correction: I think in SVN, head is just the latest revision wherever you are. Doesn't have to be the trunk.
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  the convention I've seen with svn projects is that trunk means what we used to say head in the absence of any qualifiers
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> hey, I was wondering something.  In moving to the rendering model we keep talking about but not quite doing, how does the renderer know about sparks?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> is it supposed to check for a spark condition itself, or is the game object supposed to know it's creating sparks?
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> aha, nvm.  gSpark is a game object spawned by a cycle
13:06 <z-man-work> I think sparks would stop to be game objects by then, they don't influence anything.
13:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5029230.stm  <--- turned the map the wrong way
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so if sparks stop being a game object, how should the renderer know it needs to render them?  Will the game object responsible tell it?  or is it supposed to detect such things on its own?
13:10 <z-man-work> I think we should have "visual objects". The renderer should know about those, not about game objects. The usual game objects would carry one visual around with them.
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> so instead of creating a gSpark, gCycle would create an rSpark?  Which would be one of those visual objects and not in the eGameObject inheritance
13:14 <z-man-work> right.
13:15 <z-man-work> Only that probably rCycle should create the rSpark, acting on events or whatnot from the gCycle.
13:18 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-102-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
13:18 <z-man-work> morning, joda
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> right, however it does it, it would be based on the same mechanism by which gSparks are currently created
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> morning joda.  It's morning?
13:18 <z-man-work> right.
13:18 <joda_bot> "morning" ;)
13:18 <z-man-work> somewhere, yes.
13:18 <joda_bot> It's evening but I've been in bed all day
13:18 <z-man-work> flu?
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> syphilis?
13:18 <joda_bot> The chat log should contain the reason why I'm ill ;)
13:18 <joda_bot> z-man-work: Any changes to the master server ?
13:18 <joda_bot> http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=18&threadid=889&page=1#1
13:18 <z-man-work> None I know.
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> someone's is down, might be mine
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> that post is in german?
13:18 <z-man-work> It's a german board.
13:18 <joda_bot> hm, is it currently the "master" the old version uses ?
13:18  * Lucifer_arma knew it was a german board, was being lazy and not clicking the link :)
13:18 <joda_bot> He just complains that he can't see the "classic" servers on the list
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> says mine is running
13:18 <joda_bot> I guess he refering to 0.2.7.x
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it's not the one the old versions use
13:19 <z-man-work> Mine is running, too, spewing out log messages.
13:20 <Lucifer_arma> I just noticed last night when I hit internet game one of the masters was unavailable
13:20 <z-man-work> The only "Classic" server it knows is Tigers Network Classic Play
13:20  * Lucifer_arma wonders if we could get guru3 to write a php script to give us status of all master servers
13:21 <z-man-work> #later tell guru3 * Lucifer_arma wonders if we could get guru3 to write a php script to give us status of all master servers
13:21 <armabot> z-man-work: The operation succeeded.
13:21 <z-man-work> we'll find out :)
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> same with mine
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> that's the only classic server it knows
13:22 <z-man-work> What are "Classic" servers, anyay?
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> tank's
13:23 <joda_bot> I don't know I'll ask him and add the information to the wiki... Bobby says: "Classic servers are ..."
13:24 <z-man-work> Tiger's? I've got four of them.
13:24 <Lucifer_arma> me too
13:24  * Lucifer_arma responding slowly because he's eating tacos
13:24 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
13:24 <LuciEatsPeople> I think Classic servers are settings that were prominent when tank started playing
13:24 <joda_bot> z-man-work: Did you get the teleport bug cry ?
13:24 <LuciEatsPeople> guru3: What is a classic server?
13:25 <z-man-work> Dunno, which one?
13:25 <joda_bot> It was on CVS Test Fortress I turned right and killed some other player turning left
13:25 <LuciEatsPeople> most bug cries he gets lately are "BUG: lag"
13:25 <joda_bot> Should have been yesterday or the day before
13:25 <joda_bot> sorry, really have to make notes about it
13:25 <joda_bot> My line contained teleport
13:25 <z-man-work> I haven't kept up to date too well the last days cause of the conversion.
13:25 <joda_bot> np
13:26 <joda_bot> Just wanted you to know that the inital grind and split teleport kill seems to happen in rare cases
13:26 <z-man-work> Will try to check on that.
13:26 <LuciEatsPeople> umm, people are going through walls left and right these days, are you sure some recent change didn't exacerbate this "old" bug?
13:27 <LuciEatsPeople> don't know that I'm complaining too loudly, though, had a few good rushes earlier because of that bug :)
13:27 <z-man-work> hehe
13:27 <joda_bot> he was on the left of center ... I was on the right and he confirmed he turned left but was killed by me
13:27 <joda_bot> without turning much
13:27 <z-man-work> roger that.
13:28 <LuciEatsPeople> is there any chance that's the tunneling bug I'm talking about?  Seems like he could've tunneled when he set his grind, and that's why it looks like it does
13:28 <joda_bot> might be that I only marked the enemies wall a split second before he died ?
13:28 <LuciEatsPeople> everyone is pretty close, it gets hard to tell people apart
13:28 <joda_bot> It's not important to check it right away
13:29 <z-man-work> I don't really know, I have to check every incident in the debugger.
13:29 <joda_bot> but it's a possible bug so I just wanted to pass the information around
13:29 <joda_bot> I'd really like to investigate a last round recording feature
13:29 <joda_bot> this would really make additional debug info easier
13:30 <joda_bot> but it requires a state dump at the start of each round
13:30 <z-man-work> We'd need savegames first.
13:30 <LuciEatsPeople> store the previous round's recording, and then when you hit something like that, hit "store this round"?
13:30 <joda_bot> heh ;)
13:30 <joda_bot> z-man-work: When is the game refactoring scheduled ?
13:30 <z-man-work> when I have time :)
13:31 <z-man-work> I want the refactoring to be useful for scripting, so after the script evaluation thing.
13:31 <z-man-work> We need to casually look at swig+ruby, swig+python and boost+python
13:31 <joda_bot> Because if phillipe changes spawn point handling and I mess with the teams / players ... possible spawn point selection down the road somewhere... it might help to consider a future structure to make it all fit
13:32 <z-man-work> that's pretty independent stuff, as far as I see it.
13:32 <z-man-work> gGame is mostly responsible for the round infrastrucure and the winning conditons.
13:32 <joda_bot> hm, ok woudl it be possible to allow players to move their cycle while the game timer is pauses
13:32 <z-man-work> gGame will use the stuff you dream up.
13:32 <joda_bot> paused ?
13:33 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
13:33 <joda_bot> or will the client not send key presses to the server then ?
13:33 <z-man-work> during startup?
13:33 <joda_bot> hm ;)
13:33 <z-man-work> Yes, currently, keypresses are ignored for t < 0
13:34 <joda_bot> ok... so there goes the easy way to test spawn point  positioning in a zone ... np just wanted to known how complicated the changes would be
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> seems like what you really want is to call something like World->Initialize, and have that delegate to the scripts/classes/functions that setup spawn points
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> and the rest of the stuff
13:34 <joda_bot> It's moved down then
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> then have a state variable in each player object that contains their spawn point, and let them edit it at will with changes being sent to the server
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-work: on scripting, afaic, we really should ought to support ruby :)
13:35 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: The current plan is that spawn points or areas are defined in the maps. Later a players might be allowed to position himself in a spawn area.
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: great.  :)
13:36 <joda_bot> From my point of view the important part of the scripting stuff is what we want on the scripting side, and which data / functions are assigned to which objects
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> but it seems to me the game shouldn't do a paused area where players set up before each round.  But if such a thing is desired, I'd like to see it available in scripting, like as a use case for what scripts can do
13:37 <joda_bot> This way we also get a better idea of what design components might be missing right now
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> the hand-waving answer is "everything"  :)
13:37 <z-man-work> yes ;)
13:37 <z-man-work> We should "simply" switch to using proper interfaces.
13:38 <joda_bot> So we might start to collect functions and data values on the wiki ?
13:38 <z-man-work> Instead of everyone working with gCycle directly, you should work with an abstract gICycle.
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> for what?  As in what we want in scripting?
13:39 <z-man-work> Why not directly in header files? Properly doxymented, of course.
13:39 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I guess the scripting part and structuring part will overlap in most places
13:39 <joda_bot> hm, I'd prefer to make it plain text / graphics first just to make it easier for others to read up
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> well, ummm, what we're doing now, afaik, is hoping to depend on inheritance and swig doing it the Right Way, and otherwise marking stuff with "insert scripting here"
13:40 <joda_bot> Anybody can have a look that way and we also have basic design doc which can be read without understanding code
13:40 <z-man-work> joda_bot: yes, that's a point, but external docs get out of sync with actual code quickly
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> we also need an api scripts can use to get game data, that api might be in a script's base class or it might be global functions or some combination of the two
13:40 <joda_bot> z-man-work: hm, right ... 
13:40  * Lucifer_arma thinks he's read some obsolete in-code docs a time or three
13:41 <z-man-work> Yes, but they're easier to spot and correct :)
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> I've got this crazy attitude that if we do a good job compartmentalizing the thing and putting the other things in the right places, then scripting should add itself pretty much
13:42  * Lucifer_arma reminds y'all not to go in against a Sardinian when death is on the line!
13:43 <z-man-work> Yes, I'd say having proper interfaces for C++ and wrapping them up with SWIG would give us perfect scripting. (If SWIG does its job)
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> how big an "if" is that, anyway?
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> and is it based more on ignorance of or actual experience with swig?
13:43 <z-man-work> If the interfaces hadle pointers to other interfaces and simple stuff like strings and floats, we're safe.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I share some of joda's concern that maybe it won't work out and we'll have a big mess on our hands instead
13:44 <z-man-work> I never actually *worked* with it, only played extensively.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> aha, but 'round here, you're the SWIGxpert
13:44 <z-man-work> That's why we're evaluating it in a branch.
13:45 <z-man-work> AFAIK, subversion uses swig for all its script bindings, and they seem to be useful.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> afaik, everyone uses swig and boost is just one of those single project things.  There's also SIP, you know, if we wanted to fool with that.
13:46 <Lucifer_arma> but SIP is designed and maintained to make pyQt bindings and that's it.  I suspect boost + python is something similar, a one project deal
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> and since we want ruby to pick up the people that hate python :) ...
13:47 <z-man-work> I thought we want ruby to allow secure execution of downloaded code?
13:47 <z-man-work> We don't want people that hate Python.
13:48 <z-man-work> They can work with Lua on gltron, if they must.
13:49  * z-man-work is hungry and leaves for home.
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> no way!  holy shit, the particle system built
14:03  * joda_bot admires lucifer the god of particle system miracles 
14:31 <Lucifer_arma> heh
14:31  * Lucifer_arma just added a configure option to enable particles, now he wants to add code to do something when that option is picked
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15:01  * wrtl_web_broken can't wait to see new explosions and sparks :)
15:01 <wrtl_web_broken> Or even let dead player's walls explode when they disappear
15:02 <wrtl_web_broken> or the menu when you exit it 
15:02  * wrtl_web_broken is dreaming
15:02 <Lucifer_arma> the new sparks are ruling, except that they're coming off in a big sheet :)
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> our grid coordinates map y on the grid to z in openGL, right?
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> It is merely a triple of rendering attributes, like color, and can be interpreted at the whim of the application programmer (that's you)
15:12 <Lucifer_arma> is it really?  :)
15:13 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, lets go pwn cvs :p
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, the cvs players were seeming to be traumatized earlier
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> I think we've been in there too much together last day or two :)
15:14 <spidey> lol
15:14 <spidey> dude,sp was all like everyone change teams so sp can be on one team and pwn you
15:14 <spidey> we did and they got pwnt/left
15:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh
15:15 <spidey> freak does have a tight grind though
15:15 <spidey> i beat it twice :/ 
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I added particle-based sparks and now I've got a huge mega memory leak :(
15:17 <Lucifer_arma> looks cool though, having fountains of sparks streaming off wall contact
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: when do particles get deleted?
15:18 <z-man> gSparks delete themselves, IIRC by returning "true" in TimeStep()
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15:21 <Lucifer_arma>     if (currentTime>createTime+4)
15:21 <Lucifer_arma>         return true;
15:21 <Lucifer_arma> there, I take it?  Hmmmm........
15:22 <z-man> We should at one time change that to throwing a DeleteMe exception or something. Boolean return values suck. I never can remember what stands for what.
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  That looks to me like it makes a 4 second lifetime for particles
15:23 <z-man> (Exceptions are of course function like IsMemberOfTeam...)
15:23 <z-man> looks like it, yes.
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so if I just change that condition and maybe reduce the number of sparks, I should be ok.
15:24  * Lucifer_arma is looking for a way to let the particle system determine its own lifetime
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I've only got 1000 particles per spark :)
15:28 <wrtl_web_broken> 1000? Gosh, i don't wanna know how slow this will run on my system :(
15:28 <wrtl_web_broken> but i'm interested in screenshots 
15:28 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=c26960b0@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["hope that works"]
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> when I get this memory leak thing fixed I'll commit and everyone can see it :)
15:32 <z-man> joda_bot: there?
15:33 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: bah, memory leaks. Just ignore. We all got at least 512 Mb, unless that is filled within seconds, we don't mind :)
15:34 <joda_bot> z-man: yes
15:34 <z-man> Oh, wait, you don't use VisualC anyway.
15:34 <Lucifer_arma> filled within seconds, z-man, within seconds :(
15:34 <z-man> I wanted to ask whether it is OK with you to disable precompiled headers in winlibs.
15:35 <z-man> Guess it is :)
15:35 <z-man> joda_bot: sorry for waking you up.
15:35 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: shouldn't be too hard to find, then :)
15:35 <Lucifer_arma> I know where it's at, what I don't know is how to fix it :)
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> problem is deleting particle groups.  When the group is finished, how do I delete it?
15:36 <z-man> That part is simple, just delete every pointer you allocate :)
15:36 <z-man> How do you know it's finished?
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not allocating any.  The system manages its own memory, but the only way it knows it's done with itself is if I tell it
15:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's a good question :)
15:37 <Lucifer_arma>     pSink(false, PDPlane(pVec(0,0,0), pVec(0,0,1)));  <--- kills all particles that fall under the floor
15:37 <joda_bot> z-man: No I got no problems with it and I haven't used VisC for a while ..
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that vector might be wrong, though
15:37 <Lucifer_arma>     if (pGetGroupCount() < SPARKS/10) {
15:37 <Lucifer_arma>         pDeleteParticleGroups(particle_handle, particle_handle);
15:37  * z-man doesn't want to look at the particle library right now
15:38 <Lucifer_arma> ok :)
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15:47 <Lucifer_arma> ok, got it under some control and committed
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> not it'll probably take more like 10-20 minutes to get bad :)
15:47 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you have to --enable-particles to configure to get it
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15:50 <z-man> I'll give it a try.
15:53 <Lucifer_arma> I should point out I ripped the code from the fountain example.  heh.  :)
15:56 <spidey> http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000583030620/
15:56 <spidey> i'ma make that
16:01 <z-man> I just wanted to say that the effect you picked doesn't look like sparky :)
16:11 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:13 <z-man> nemostultae: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3751
16:13 <z-man> If you don't want macosx_recorder in SVN any more at all, just say so, I'll do the fighting with Luke.
16:14  * z-man holds that developers have a right to do armagetron related side projects any way they like.
16:19 <z-man> Time to learn how you merge branches in SVN...
16:22 <nemostultae> hmm, maybe I should hard wrap my commit messages... http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad
16:24 <z-man> Naa. It's not your fault if the tool can't handle that.
16:24 <z-man> Rakefile?
16:25 <nemostultae> http://rake.rubyforge.org -- I like it more than make.
16:26 <z-man> Interesting.
16:26 <joda_bot> somehow I'm getting only half of the conversation ;)
16:26 <joda_bot> anyother channel in use between nemo and z-man ?
16:26 <z-man> Probably you don't click the links :)
16:27 <joda_bot> ah ;)
16:27 <joda_bot> that explains it
16:46 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: nope, but yours was just missing an 'armagetronad'
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> gSpark doesn't know the vector of the cycle, does it?
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> er, direction?
16:47 <z-man> no, I think it only gets the normal of the wall
16:47 <z-man> Luke-Jr: ?
16:48 <Luke-Jr> z-man: note I never said he had to keep it in Svn, just that it would make sense if it was to be released along with the game, and that if it is maintained outside Svn, it should be released seperately and deleted from Svn
16:48 <Luke-Jr> z-man: re the checkout line earlier
16:48 <z-man> ok about recorder
16:49 <z-man> your svn update command didn't work; mine worked for me (don't know why it didn't work for wrtl)
16:49 <z-man> I don't have them in my chatlog here, so I can't check again :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, made the sparks look more like sparks
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> also reduced them in number, so now it's a long stream of sparks that falls behind you.  Still feels flooded.  Hm
17:02  * Lucifer_arma needs to remind himself to profile it now and see what it looks like :)
17:05 <z-man> Hehe, look where the fake svn import activity got us :) http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=80
17:18 <Luke-Jr> z-man: from nemo's reply, I figure we should probably just delete the recorder from Svn trunk and 0.2.8* (or at least wherever you started making the branches in it)
17:19 <Luke-Jr> too bad he didn't mention Svn action to be taken
17:20 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ok, so I rename winlibs to armagetronad_winlibs everywhere EXCEPT trunk, 0.2.8, and or is included?
17:20 <Luke-Jr> (the branch)
17:20 <z-man> It's fixed in 0.2.8 already, winlibs is fine there.
17:21 <z-man> is dead in svn like the rest, so it should be armagetronad_winlibs there, too.
17:21 <z-man> I'll handle the trunk later, joda has updated the code_blocks files with a version I haven't got yet, so I can't touch it.
17:21 <z-man> Well, I can touch it, but I can't test.
17:22 <z-man> Well, I can test. I just got to make the edit by hand.
17:22 <z-man> Aw, anyway :) Just leave trunk and 0.2.8 alone, rename it in the rest :)
17:25 <z-man> And I'd say nemostultae's "so it may be removed from SVN" means we can remove it. It isn't updated any more, so keeping it around doesn't make too much sense to me.
17:25 <Luke-Jr> ok, so you want to do that or should I schedule it for after this rename? =p
17:25 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Drain Bamaged"]
17:26 <Luke-Jr> if you want me to do it, let me know which branch you started branching with
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17:31 <z-man> you know the branching order. trunk -> 0.2.8, 0.2.8 -> and 0.2.8 ->
17:31 <z-man> macosx_recorder was branced with the rest every time.
17:32 <z-man> I'd delete it in 0.2.8 and the trunk. In the others, it can stay for historical interests.
17:32 <Luke-Jr> nemo didn't do the branching ever?
17:33 <z-man> No, all modules were branched by me all together every time.
17:33 <Luke-Jr> o
17:34 <Luke-Jr> if you can do it, it'd get done faster-- this renaming will take a while ;)
17:34 <Luke-Jr> bbiab
17:34 <z-man> We're not in a hurry :) But I'll do it anyway.
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17:45 -!- SD|away is now known as Self_Destructo
17:45 <Self_Destructo> notes
17:45 <Self_Destructo> hrm
17:45 <Self_Destructo> my 3 key doesn't work :/
17:47 <spidey> lol
17:47 <spidey> hey sd,what'd you want lastnight before you left?
17:56 <spidey> #notes
17:56 <armabot> spidey: I currently have notes waiting for guru3, Luke-Jr, madmax, and phil.
17:56 <spidey> meh
18:05 <wrtlprnft> hmm, the particles don't seem to affect my framerate :)
18:05 <wrtlprnft> at least not sgnificantly
18:05 <spidey> *burps*
18:07 <wrtlprnft> although the current code doesn't look like sparks :P
18:08 <wrtlprnft> and they shouldn't be grey, more yellowish. But I guess they'll improve :)
18:15 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
18:20 <Self_Destructo> spidey: i was just going to tell you i had all my research for destroyers done
18:21 <spidey> cool
18:21 <spidey> i'll have enough resources in 4 hours to send mine hyperdrive to lvl 6
18:21 <spidey> then 3 days to research :/
18:22 <spidey> i'll be hitting 28k points by tonight
18:23 <spidey> i need 532 points to get there
18:24 <spidey> i have 63 BS :D
18:36 <Self_Destructo> wow
18:37 <Self_Destructo> I set back on fleet till I could get hyper lever 6
18:37 <Self_Destructo> I'm building it now, while i build another planet up to a nice size
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18:43 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I think there is no timer for memorizing the glance pointer
18:43 <wrtlprnft> it just "snaps" to the closest axis
18:44 <wrtlprnft> so, if you loot forward + or - 45 degress and press glance right you'll end up looking right
18:44 <wrtlprnft> *look
18:45 <wrtlprnft> if you were looking 46 degrees to the right (for example because you just turned left and the camera didn't update fast enough) you end up glancing backwards
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19:09 <wrtlprnft> committed my merge and added a new setting to fix nemo's glance- back problem
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, gParticles will be a thing of the past when I'm done ;)
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> gotta cook dinner, though.
19:28 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to make sparks more dense and less dense?
19:28 <wrtlprnft> like, currently there are is a big bunch of sparks released at once every decisecond or so
19:28 <wrtlprnft> what about continuously spawning them?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> but the same amount of sparks per second as now
19:44 <Lucifer_arma> problem there is position.  gSparks is created with the cycle's position, if you spawn more sparks over the next quarter of a second you have no reason to believe the cycle's still there making sparks
19:44 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, you know it probably isn't
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> the way to do it is to increase the rate at which gSparks are created, but that's determined by simulation speed.  It's a smooth flow on my system...
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> we might try decreasing the number of sparks and increasing their size, though.  That might make it look smoother.
19:45 <wrtlprnft> that kinda sucks...
19:46 <wrtlprnft> isn't there a way to check if you grinded a wall the last timestep and if you did make lots of sparks in between?
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19:50 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm, not that I know of.  We might try sending a range of positions to gSparks that includes position at last time step and position at this one
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> then gSparks can use that to determine how many sparks to generate and where to place them
19:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:51 <wrtlprnft> or better try to figure out where the grinding started
19:51 <wrtlprnft> so you don't get the first and last few decimeters without sparks
20:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_1.png
20:00 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> what's that thing at the bottom?
20:11 <Lucifer_arma> heh, and did you intentionally slant all the text?
20:12 <wrtlprnft> that's the whole point of the screenshot ;)
20:12 <wrtlprnft> i was slanting it so i could see the nonexistent 3rd dimension of the font
20:12 <wrtlprnft> I'm trying to make the text 3- dimensional
20:13 <wrtlprnft> and that ting at the bottom right is probably kicker overlapping arma
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20:34 <wrtlprnft> wtf
20:35 <wrtlprnft> glMatrixMode() is trowing a very weird error
20:35 <wrtlprnft> all other functions like glPopMatrix() work, just this one strikes. It works in other files that have similar includes.
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: invalid token
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: invalid token
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp: In member function `void rFontContainer::Render(const tString&, float, const tCoord&)':
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: `error' was not declared in this scope
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: error: expected `;' before "error"
20:35 <wrtlprnft> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:226: warning: unused variable 'error'
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> hey, what's the k program that let's me fix my resolution?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> kcontrol?
20:37 <Lucifer_arma> no, that's not it, that's just the control center
20:38 <Lucifer_arma> arma crashed and left me in 640x480
20:38 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:38 <wrtlprnft> peripherials
20:38 <wrtlprnft> screen
20:38 <wrtlprnft> change it to some other resolution than the one you want and press cancel if it asks you if you wanna keep it
20:38 <Luke-Jr> z-man-work: ...
20:39 <Luke-Jr> anyway
20:39 <wrtlprnft> s/screen/display
20:39 <Luke-Jr> so shall we keep our existing Svn import, or would people prefer I do it in a way that minimizes the moves?
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> ahh, there was something else, I thought.  I got it with something or other
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> The font file: ../../armagetronad/textures/Armagetronad.ttf
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x086e0fe0 ***
20:39 <Lucifer_arma> happened with my new explosion code :(
20:40 <wrtlprnft> o_O
20:40 <wrtlprnft> those things should be totally unrelated...
20:41 <wrtlprnft> maybe something's overflowing and screwing up FTGL?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> bactrace?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> *back
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> it's unlikely to be something in ftgl, more likely to be coincidence
20:42 <wrtlprnft> if there was a crash it must have been inside ftgl
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> this time it didn't crash until the end, hmmmmm
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's definitely my stuff :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> because right after it's checking for an error and it doesn't get there
20:43 <wrtlprnft> yeah, your stuff crashes ftgl ;)
20:44 <Lucifer_arma> probably something weird about how it's being rendered
20:45 <wrtlprnft> maybe your particles any my ftgl just don't like each other...
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I better not commit yet :)
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> crashing for every explosion is bad
20:45 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:45 <wrtlprnft> grr, what's wrong with that font?
20:46 <wrtlprnft> it refuses to render threedimensionally
20:47 <wrtlprnft> like, you can turn the thing, but it refuses to add the 3rd dimension
20:47 <Lucifer_arma> does a different font work?
20:47 <wrtlprnft> there is just one font type that can do that 3rd dimension thing
20:47 <wrtlprnft> and only two of them you can turn freely
20:48 <wrtlprnft> FTGLExtrdFont is the one I'm using
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, disable all the particle stuff in explosions and it still crashes
20:50 <wrtlprnft> o_O
20:50 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't crash for me
20:51 <wrtlprnft> so it must have been one of your changes since your last committ
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> appears to get through the constructor....
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's gotta be a change since my last commit because it didn't crash on my last commit :)
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> last commit was just finishing up the sparks for now
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> I wanted to throw the explosions in too so they could be toyed with...
20:53 <wrtlprnft> what about gdb?
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> what about it?  ;)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> what is its backtrace?
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> it's this neat thing that unwinds the stack after a crash
20:56 <wrtlprnft> no, but does it show anything?
20:56 <wrtlprnft> O_o
20:56 <Lucifer_arma> haven't looked.  :)  Littering with debug lines right now.
20:57 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, gdb gives nice verbose backtraces
20:57 <Lucifer_arma> I like to see if I can isolate the crash when it's over such a small amount of code without a debugger
20:57 <wrtlprnft> :)
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> weird.  ran out of options, gdbed anyway, and there's no explosion stuff in the backtrace
20:59 <Lucifer_arma> arg
21:00 <Lucifer_arma> does svn do an update when you commit?  Is there a chance I got a broken update?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> dunno
21:02 <wrtlprnft> try setting FONT_FILE to 0 and see if it still occurs
21:06 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: hey, does that svn cp trick work for you?
21:07 <wrtlprnft> uh, i didn't try it anymore
21:07 <wrtlprnft> I got my file through CVS
21:08 <Luke-Jr> pfft
21:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:08 <Luke-Jr> that's cheating
21:08 <wrtlprnft> that's something that works without hours of trying
21:08 <Luke-Jr> I didn't try for hours to get the svn cp trick ;)
21:18 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia overstatement
21:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.16 seconds: Bernie Sanders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders>; Stylistic device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylistic_device>; Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Croat Canuck - Wikipedia, the ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Croat_Canuck>; Wikipedia (2 more messages)
21:19 <wrtlprnft> 2nd one for you
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AC2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> it's one of those crash bugs where if you just change one of the lines it crashes somewheres else
21:37 <Lucifer_arma> funky, it is
21:38  * wrtlprnft is about to give up on 3d fonts... besides weird effects he gets nothing
21:42 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: next time you update to HEAD, can you send me a screenshot of what you get with FONT_TYPE set to 6?
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I'll try to remember.  That the 3d one?
21:48  * Lucifer_arma is half asleep.
21:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
21:51 <wrtlprnft> for me it's somewhat 3d
21:51 <wrtlprnft> it misses the front and back end for me, i wanna gnow if that's a graphic card issue
21:51 <wrtlprnft> but the sides are rendered fine
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> here, look, more examples of doublebinding:
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
21:52  * Lucifer_arma is quite tickled by that post :)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> /|/Z_/\
21:53 <wrtlprnft> that's triple binding on oktatron
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> ______________________||________________________-------______------_______
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> and in the other direction:
21:53 <Lucifer_arma> =================================]
21:54 <wrtlprnft> /L_--'--_|'''\S\
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> fortress?  ;)
21:54 <wrtlprnft> >~~~~~~~~~~<
21:54 <wrtlprnft> fortress?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> ah
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> somehow, something I'm doing is corrupting either the game object list or the explosion list
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> and i'm too sleepy to work it out
21:55 <wrtlprnft> night?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> oh wait, Lucifer_arma never sleeps
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe tomorrow, or maybe I'll clobber what I've done soon, heh
21:55  * Lucifer_arma will be going to bed soon
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> I just saw my wife get out the steam cleaner, though, and head to my bedroom.  Hard to sleep with tht going on.
21:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll just lay on the couch, heh
21:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:57 <wrtlprnft> we should put some ASCII art on the wiki on how to double bind
21:58 <wrtlprnft> at least there you can take advantage of all the nice UTF-8 characters
21:58 <wrtlprnft> like the _ on the top
21:58 <wrtlprnft> or all those DOS keys
21:58 <wrtlprnft> s/keys/chars
22:11 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Drain Bamaged"]
22:36 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@67-42-207-93.albq.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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