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Log from 2006-05-23:
--- Day changed Tue May 23 2006
00:00 <guru3> but i accidently pasted the translation in the chanel
00:00 <guru3> and now i've said sorry in spanish
00:00 <guru3> except i bet my grammer was terrible
00:00 <n54> perhaps someone there will jelp out?
00:00 <n54> help*
00:00 <guru3> i don't have a problem :P
00:00 <guru3> well
00:00 <guru3> not a spanish linux one
00:01 <n54> many channels are liberal on off-topic stuff so you can always ask and/or go private (openbsd is a madhouse XD)
00:02 <guru3> hehe it's ok
00:02 <guru3> my spanish teacher didn't think i was too bad
00:02 <guru3> then again, there were only 2 people in my class
00:02 <n54> :)
00:02 <n54> hehe
00:02 <guru3> so it might have been a lack of options...
00:03 <n54> sort of like me doing norwegian in singapore... 2 in class :)
00:03 <guru3> one or two people here did norwegian
00:03 <n54> had a way cool teacher though an englishman with a norwegian wife
00:04 <guru3> cool
00:04 <n54> and two hyperactive kids ^^
00:04 <guru3> i don't speak norwegian
00:04  * n54 misses the teachers at uwcsea
00:04 <guru3> och jag kan bara pratar svenska
00:04 <n54> hehe :)
00:04 <guru3> and i have no clue what i just said
00:05 <n54> a bit broken but it's ok
00:05 <n54> jag kan inte snakka svenska
00:05 <guru3> i can't do verbs at all in swedish
00:06 <n54> yeah you should have said prata rather than pratar
00:06 <n54> not important :)
00:06 <guru3> well there you go
00:06 <guru3> i do like saying "jas�" really drawn out tho
00:07 <guru3> cracks me up
00:07 <n54> like jaaaah?
00:07  * n54 doesn't know any word "jas" but then again I really don't speak swedish
00:07 <guru3> aw crap
00:07 <guru3> the a with the o
00:07 <guru3> is at the end of that
00:08 <guru3> stupid improper character sets
00:08 <n54> jass?? that would be in norwegian :)
00:08 <guru3> minus one s
00:08 <n54> ok :)
00:09 <n54> that word is why scandinavians have a bad habit of saying "really?" as it's the closest but not really the same
00:09 <guru3> yeah
00:09 <guru3> well there's the other word
00:10 <guru3> laga(o)m
00:10 <n54> hehe lagom
00:10 <guru3> yeah
00:10 <guru3> not really sure how it's spelt
00:10  * n54 wonders what he should translate that to in norwegian
00:10 <n54> "s?nn passe" would be one alternative
00:11 <n54> or just "passe"
00:11 <guru3> funky
00:11 <n54> mm yeah, there are lots of differences, especially in pronounciation
00:11 <guru3> one of the students in my english class is (was?) norwegian
00:11 <n54> most likely is
00:11 <guru3> well i meant in that
00:11 <guru3> can i still say english class
00:12 <guru3> when there really aren't any more classes
00:12 <guru3> but school hasn't ended yet
00:12 <n54> oh :)
00:13 <guru3> yeah
00:13 <guru3> and now i've got to go
00:13 <guru3> see ya
00:13 <n54> cya and best fo luck :)
00:13 <n54> of*
00:13 <guru3> thnx
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> adios amigo
00:31 <n54> hehe
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> donde esta el bano?
00:31 <n54> where is the tube?
00:31 <Lucifer_arma> look, I'm *not* going to find the enye key, ok?
00:32 <n54> ??
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> ban(enye)o = bathroom
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> restroom, pisser, whatever
00:32 <n54> bano doesn't mean undeground?
00:32 <n54> underground tube system*
00:33 <spider> lol
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> it might, I suppose.  But when I was in the 4th grade, we learned "PUedo ir al bano?" means "May I go to the bathroom?"
00:33 <n54> oh
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> and I remember forgetting that, and he had to ask in Spanish to be allowed to go, and I said "Donde esta el bano?", doing the piss dance and all
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> and the teacher said "Down the hall, why?"
00:34 <Lucifer_arma> damn near pissed my pants, but she relented and let me go without having asked in spanish.  :)
00:34 <n54> meen
00:35 <n54> /s/meen/mean
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmm.  erm.  Ok, I never did figure out how to say "I've gotta pee".  bbiab
00:37 <n54> cya
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01:11 <Lucifer_arma> http://alinux.org/  <--- THis link brought to you by the letters W, T, and F
01:12 <n54> loading, never seen it before
01:14 <n54> targeting gamers?
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> beats me.  I couldn't really get a feel for it, since the website is just another "Give me all your money" website
01:15 <GodTodd> targeting fundies it looks like to me ;)
01:15 <n54> yup
01:15 <n54> fundies? :)
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> you noticed the bible study thing?  :)
01:15 <GodTodd> yep
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> http://linuxpakistan.sourceforge.net/pklinux/info.html
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> this one looks fun
01:15 <Lucifer_arma> not sure if I like slackware-based, though.
01:15 <n54> sure, if you speak urdu ;)
01:16 <Lucifer_arma> but it's derived from a fairly recent slackware
01:16 <n54> here's something really interesting; an iranians outlook on present iraq http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/Taheri_0606.htm
01:17 <n54> some typesetting snafus but nevertheless
01:17 <n54> info on the author http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Taheri
01:19 <GodTodd> w00t...climbin' the walls came in today :D
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01:25 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/About   <--- looks very promising
01:26 <n54> you're looking for a distro for the carbox? or something else?
01:26 <n54> but looks nice any way
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> carbox
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> I figured there had to be a distro out there somewhere that was designed small with the purpose of being extended
01:29 <n54> :)
01:29 <n54> good thinking
01:29 <n54> I've actually seen rock before but forgot about it
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> As CPU-Speed and RAM goes up, the amount of necessary patience goes down.   :)
01:29 <n54> hehe :)
01:30 <n54> brb
01:58 <n54> bah-hahaha I've come across a "word I hadn't heard before; "ego dildo" aka microphone XD
01:59 <n54> /s/"word/term
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Changing_the_package_selection
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> looks like I found what I need.  :)
02:08 <n54> :)
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> it's as good as the LFS option, only without all the "build it from scratch" stuff
02:09 <n54> cool
02:09 <Lucifer_arma> automated distribution build process.  Looks like I can just give a package list and it'll build an iso image that'll install a binary distribution for me.
02:11 <n54> niice
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't look like they have an armagetron package, though, heh
02:24 <n54> not surprised really :)
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02:27 <n54> on lisp (funny): http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186047&cid=15355848
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02:45 <z-man> yawn, morning
02:45 <n54> morning :)
02:45  * Lucifer_arma politely greets z-man
02:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: that was a pretty interesting article on Iraq
02:49 <n54> yes I thought so too, however it's just an opinon of course (but I'll admit I'd like it to be true)
02:50 <n54> which of coruse sends up a big red warning flag ^^
02:50 <n54> course*
02:56 <Lucifer_arma> hey, if this ROCK linux is all it's cracked up to be, we could use it to make a linux distribution that installs an armagetron dedicated server
02:56 <n54> nice idea
02:57 <Lucifer_arma> I should probably ought to post on this
02:57 <n54> mm yes
02:58 <n54> the dedicated server is all basic computing right? doesn't need x, or graphic cards or anything like that?
02:59 <Lucifer_arma> nothing like that.  Just needs its dependencies and the network.
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> of course, we'd want to include apache and some other stuff, the point was always to bundle the best of the various support scripts people have written,
03:00 <n54> that's what I thought
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> possibly write a configurator program for it.
03:00 <n54> throw in pf or some such too?
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> pf?
03:01 <n54> sorry I guess ipfilter?
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, firewall, yes all that stuff
03:01 <n54> pf is obsd stuff /packet filter)
03:01 <Lucifer_arma> and have the installer ask for the server name and some other basic configuration parameters and write them to the file
03:03 <n54> and include openssl for remote "direct" admin?
03:03 <n54> err. ssh
03:03 <Lucifer_arma> ssh, yeah
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe have a wxPython or pyQt client that uses ssh to configure the server and other stuff like that
03:04 <Lucifer_arma> or webpages for the purpose
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> now we'd have to consider having it able to host its own resources
03:08 <n54> like most thing it would probably need to evolve a bit
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03:12 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, definitely
03:12 <Lucifer_arma> the main thing would be to make something easy to install for people who've never used LInux.  Basically, if we can build something Dr. Joe Tron can use, then we've succeeded.
03:13 <n54> yes (although I have no idea about Dr. Joe's *nix skills)
03:13 <n54> and just about any somewhat old box should do
03:14 <n54> perhaps snag whatever knoppix etc. uses for autoconfiguration of hw
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> presumably this rock-linux thing has some autoconfiguration of hw thing already
03:20 <n54> perhaps
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> it has a full-blown desktop distribution target
03:21 <n54> it would be nice if it does :)
03:21 <n54> was it debian-based?
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, let me get something built with it first and I"ll let you know :)
03:21 <n54> :)
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not debian-based.  It's its own based.
03:21 <n54> ok
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06:29 <guru3> woo done
06:33 <z-man> Your tests? How did it go?
06:34 <guru3> not bad
06:34 <guru3> no more exams now
06:35 <guru3> i'm free to completely screw up the forusm :D
06:36 <guru3> and what are decorators in layman's language?
06:39 <Lucifer_arma> they're people that come into your house and tell you you have no taste in furniture
06:40 <guru3> the c++ ones i meant :/
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, member variables that come into your class and tell you you have no coding style?
06:43  * Lucifer_arma thinks he just made a really bad pun
06:43 <guru3> Oo
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know what decorators are.  Or rather, I might know, but if I do, it'll be one of those things that I know improperly, i.e. without any of the proper defiitions and terms and stuff
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm currently fooling with rock linux :)
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> and waking up the family for school
06:44 <guru3> yeah i saw that post
06:45 <guru3> that's pretty cool
06:45 <guru3> ArmaCDTron
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> :)
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> here I am, thinking about how we can make a distribution for windows guys that want to use Linux for their servers but don't have the time or confidence to fool with a regular distribution
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> and all you guys can think about are lan parties
06:46 <Lucifer_arma> I swearuh
06:46 <guru3> but you could have the client too!
06:47 <Lucifer_arma> um, we couldn't distribute it with the binary drivers for certain video cards (unless they gave us permission to do so)
06:47 <guru3> crap
06:48 <Lucifer_arma> gpl problems, eh?
06:48 <guru3> fuck them & do it anyway :D
06:49 <guru3> i'm sure it could be worked around
06:49 <guru3> or give them 10fps mesa software rendering
06:49 <guru3> you can play @ 10fps
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.  It's either we need permission from nvidia and ati to distribute their drivers,
06:49 <Lucifer_arma> or it doesn't matter because the drivers taint the kernel and we'd be violating the kernel license
06:50 <guru3> bleh
06:50 <guru3> ain't no one been sued over that
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> there are things that are worse than getting sued :)
06:50 <Lucifer_arma> how about a slashdot article about how evil we are for distributing a tainted kernel?  heh
06:50 <n54> lol
06:51 <n54> and congrats guru3 :)
06:51 <guru3> thnx n54 
06:52 <z-man> Every publicity is good publicity, I'd say! Let's fuck the kernel.
06:52 <n54> would those gfx blobs fit on a floppy?
06:52 <n54> hehe z-man
06:53 <z-man> The downloads are in the range of 20mb for nvidia (heaven knows why), so probably: no
06:53 <n54> yikes
06:53 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: about decorators: think of them as what you get in scripting languages anyway :)
06:53 <z-man> In script, everyone can put data into any object.
06:53 <z-man> Decorators allow that in C++.
06:53  * n54 runs back to kitchen - has made chop suey (sp?) for the first time ever
06:54 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that could be insanely useful
06:54 <z-man> Eeeexactly ;)
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> can you put functions into an object, then?
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> or just variables?
06:55 <z-man> Just variables for now
06:55 <z-man> but the variables can have any type
06:55 <Lucifer_arma> such as a function pointer?
06:55 <z-man> Such as
06:55 <z-man> or simply a class with a function
06:56 <z-man> Using it is a tiny bit awkward:
06:56 <z-man> decorator[object].function()
06:56 <z-man> instead of object.function()
06:56  * z-man has to remember to add a way to get from the decoration object back to the full object
06:57 <Lucifer_arma> ah, the moment of truth.  Did I just forget to add a package to the distribution?
06:57 <guru3> lol
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> this is neat.  I was reading the lfs book thinking about how I could write python scripts to do everything while I worked my way through it,
06:58 <z-man> I'm compiling svn for the third time today :)
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> so that when I finished I could make any new distribution from it.
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> then I found this rock-linux thing, where they did it already, only using shell scripts.  :)
06:58 <Lucifer_arma> why compiling svn so much?
06:58 <z-man> First time with default USE=minimal
06:59 <z-man> second time with USE=-minimal perl to get the damned perl bindings
06:59 <z-man> that then fails, because it uses swig, and that has no perl support compiled in
06:59 <z-man> so USE=perl python ruby emerge swig...
06:59 <guru3> ...
06:59 <z-man> and emerge svn again :)
07:00 <z-man> USE=-minimal can be quite annoying at times.
07:00 <z-man> err, USE=minimal;
07:00 <z-man> err, USE=minimal
07:01 <z-man> It's not the first time I had to go on a reompilation spree because that's my default :)
07:01 <guru3> lol
07:03 <Lucifer_arma> why doesn't ^C evre aactually stop cat?
07:03 <z-man> Wait, my decorator function example makes no sense :)
07:04 <guru3> yeah
07:04 <n54> is cat in kernel? if so that's the explanation afaik
07:04 <z-man> Instead of doing that, you can just use a regular non-member function. The decorator function doesn't have access to private regular members anyway.
07:04 <guru3> it does Lucifer_arma, just takes time
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm glad I wasn't just sleepy
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> if this rock-linux thing works, I might well find myself switching to it
07:05 <guru3> funky
07:06 <Lucifer_arma> it has all the advantages of a source-based distribution, with all the added advantages of a binary distribution
07:06 <z-man> Now, virtual decorator functions would be neat, and I think they could be possible. But virtual functions are usually part of the interface and belong into the class. I guess we'll have to wait for use cases to see if it makes sense :)
07:06 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: don't you have to rebuild the whole thing if something changes?
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> ?  there's a package manager...  after the thing is installed it's just another source-based distribution
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> or I could build all the packages myself and stash them in my own repo
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer Linux (tm)
07:07 <z-man> hehe
07:07 <wrtlprnft> z-man: well, tell me whan i can actually use those decorators. I wanna use them for my rTextBox
07:07 <n54> :)
07:08 <z-man> wrtlprnft: what for? Keeping the private data out of the interface?
07:08 <n54> or perhaps Lux Nux for short :)
07:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, yes.
07:09 <z-man> Or LuLiNu
07:09 <z-man> Ah, not enough x.
07:09 <n54> lol XD
07:09 <wrtlprnft> that class needs a deque of some objects that store the text, position and color of each "chunk"
07:09 <n54> no LuLiNu is great imo :)
07:09 <wrtlprnft> so for rendering it just needs to iterate through them and render each one
07:10 <wrtlprnft> but i wanna keep that second class out of the interface
07:10 <z-man> I see.
07:10 <z-man> I'll give you a ping when the thing is committed.
07:11 <wrtlprnft> well, your post said i shouldn't use it yet
07:12 <z-man> Well, make it so you can switch to a regular pimpl idiom without too much pain
07:12 <z-man> put all your decorations into one struct
07:12 <z-man> and access that struct not directly over the decorator interface, but some function
07:12 <z-man> and in case the decorators blow up, make the function work another way.
07:12 <wrtlprnft> i could just make it a private nested class if you like and screw decorators :P
07:13 <z-man> Yes, from an interface point of view, that hides the information just as well.
07:13 <z-man> From the compilation dependency viewpoint, not.
07:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but if i change that private class half the tron project has to be recompiled
07:14 <z-man> But a private nested class can be turned into a decorator quite easily.
07:14 <z-man> yes, that's the compilation dependency viewpoint :)
07:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know
07:14 <wrtlprnft> i was just typing when your message popped up and sent it anyways
07:15 <z-man> thought so
07:16 <z-man> Well, use decorators if you want to give them a try. Doesn't hurt to do real world tests. I don't think they will collide with scripting anyway.
07:16 <z-man> As long as SWIG uses the C++ new and delete operators to manage objects, everything should be fine.
07:17 <wrtlprnft> :)
07:18 <z-man> Ah, finally got a working SubMaster client
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> submaster looks like a subproject of rock-linux
07:22 <wrtlprnft> yay, the antispam thingy works. no spam in two days!
07:23 <n54> cool :)
07:23  * n54 looks up submaster
07:25 <n54> two different things right?
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/SubMaster
07:25 <n54> btw the cool was about the lack of forum spam wrtlprnft :)
07:25 <guru3> if we used a source management system based on mysql
07:25 <guru3> would be so easy...
07:25 <wrtlprnft> forum spam?
07:25 <n54> oops
07:25 <n54> yeah that the trick/filter works
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> arrr, you don't do version control in mysql!  You use cvs, which is written for the purpose!
07:26  * n54 found that it was indeed the same
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> not forum spam, wiki spam
07:26 <n54> my bad
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, pay attention n54!
07:28  * Lucifer_arma cracks n54 on the wrist with a ruler
07:28 <n54> yeah that was below par :S
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> yay, it's building gcc for the second time
07:29  * n54 doesn't worry since it was one of those wacky bendable rubber rulers
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> which will make it like the 6th time I've built gcc today
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> dude, those bendable rubber rulers are more dangerous than the wooden ones
07:29 <n54> why+
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> but give me a leather one any day
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> get it flopping back and forth, then swing it
07:29 <n54> won't get that from me :D
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> extra power, mechanical advantage from the swing, + the energy of the swing itself
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> only this time, it's building gcc with the gcc I just built
07:31 <n54> you know too much on this subject... *puts on armor*
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> gcc is building gcc and warning me that #include_next is a gcc extension
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> how lame is that?
07:35 <z-man> Odd :) But GCC also needs to build using other compilers.
07:40  * wrtlprnft wants everything on his linux box compiled by a GCC that was build by MSVC6
07:41  * Lucifer_arma wonders why wrtlprnft wants a linux box with a gratuitous dependency on msvcrt.dll
07:42 <z-man> Haha, you won't get that :) GCC always compiles itself with itself afterwards.
07:42 <z-man> Twice, I think.
07:43 <guru3> :/
07:43 <wrtlprnft> compillation mayhem
07:44 <wrtlprnft> i wonder if you could compile VC6 with gcc
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> I read an article by one of the unix guys where he showed how a c compiler maker could do evil things and have them propogate when their c compiler is used to build others...
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> make made make.
07:45 <wrtlprnft> make && make && make
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> make stuff
07:45 <wrtlprnft> fir i in {1..3}; do make; done
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> we should make a stuff target that just depends on all
07:45 <wrtlprnft> *for
07:45 <Lucifer_arma> so we can have our docs say 'configure && make stuff && make install'
07:46 <wrtlprnft> we should have a make debug, like make run, but it should start arma in gdb
07:46 <wrtlprnft> so you don't have to make && gdb src/armagetronad_main
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> we should have a "yourself_scarce" that just depends on distclean
07:47  * wrtlprnft brings out old ideas about gTehSuck
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> this distro-builder is really neat
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> you mean the oop GLTron?
07:47 <wrtlprnft> yes
07:48 <wrtlprnft> just stuff all of GLTron into a single class
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> installed qemu so I can test the distro it builds when it's done
07:48 <wrtlprnft> and never ever use it
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> what about btehsuck?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> branch
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> we'll implement every hare-brained idea someone suggests there
07:49 <wrtlprnft> we should really get some of their rendering code, though
07:49 <wrtlprnft> like, the explosion effect and the walls
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> "How about wings?  Can I have wings?"  "Sure, check out tehsuck branch"
07:49 <z-man> :)
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> the explosion effect is just a particle system with a few models, we can swing that
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> as long as the kernel this thing uses is reasonably featureful and I don't have to configure it, I'm going to love this thing
07:50 <wrtlprnft> even that round blast they have?
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> round blast?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> that shockwave thingy?
07:50 <wrtlprnft> yellow
07:50  * Lucifer_arma wonders how long its been since he played gltron
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> tell you what, get the particle system building and we'll have explosions that'll make gltron's look like toys
07:51 <wrtlprnft> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=3714284
07:51 <wrtlprnft> how true
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be the difference between a sci-fi movie made in 2006 compared to a sci-fi movie made in 1911
07:53 <wrtlprnft> i wonder which project is the chinese calligraphy by a couple of buddhist monks
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> his
07:53 <wrtlprnft> and which one is the stick-sketches on a sandy beach drawn by a shift-wrecked voodoo priest
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> ours
07:53 <wrtlprnft> lol
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> you didn't know z-man can do voodoo?
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> did you completely miss the decorator thread?!?
07:53 <n54> I read that article too, it's ancient and is a proof of concept for a really evil piece of code that would corrupt absolutely everything the compiler did including itself
07:53 <z-man> wait, I thought we were the monks?
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> noooo, 2020 *wants* us to be the monks
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> what I really want to know is who's better?  When the gltron guys get their lan thing going and we build in our gltron-network-compatibility code,
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> and we all meet together on some server in switzerland, who's gonna kick the most ass?
07:55 <n54> why switzerland?
07:55 <z-man> They're spoiled by fighting against the AIs all this time. We're spoiled by rubber. Tough question.
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> andi's swiss?
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> we better make the first match a fortress match
07:56  * n54 thought it might have something to do with toblerone, or swiss cheese, or watches, or banks
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> no, we have all that stuff here.  The only thing switzerland has that we don't is andi
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, and a glacier.
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, building binutils for the third time
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> I guess it'll do gcc and the rest again
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to bed, this thing looks like it'll finish itself now
07:59  * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
07:59 <n54> cya
08:02 <guru3> studient fest imorgon n54 :)
08:02 <n54> :)
08:04 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
08:18 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma's sleep habits are kinda weird. You might think he lives in australia or something
08:19 <n54> you think so?
08:20 <wrtlprnft> well...
08:20 <wrtlprnft> up all night and now he goes to bed right as the day starts
08:20 <n54> hmm that's what I do usually, I'm probably biased
08:22 <z-man> I was kind of wondering why he was up that early as well :)
08:22 -!- z-man is now known as z-man-work
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> -> ** list truncated to save space on the terminal **
08:31 <wrtlprnft> ?
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> I don't really go to bed right away when I say I do
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> came back and found my rock-linux wasn't building, it broke, so I double-checked the package list
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> had to make sure it had all the base packages
08:33 <wrtlprnft> it might be nice to distribute CVS HEAD builds on knoppix CDs >)
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> this is really neat.  I highly recommend everyone try to build their own custom linux distribution
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm really going to bed now
08:33 <wrtlprnft> Can't, missing a CD burner
08:34 <wrtlprnft> night
08:34 <wrtlprnft> well, at home i can
08:40 <guru3> should i try to write a scm based off of mysql?
08:41 <guru3> save that for a rainy day i guess
08:41 <n54> scm?
08:42 <guru3> source code management
08:42 <guru3> thingy
08:42 <n54> ah
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> don't do it!  Then Luke will want to write a CMS based on it
08:51  * Lucifer_arma is aware he's revealing the fact that he never actually sleeps, oops.
08:51 <guru3> but then with mysql replication...
08:51 <guru3> wouldn't matter where someone committed
08:51 <guru3> instant redundancy
08:52 <n54> or alternatively; instant mess :)
08:52  * n54 is good at that
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> n54: don't rain on the man's parade.  He's so happy about doing the replication thing that he wants to solve all the world's problems with it, and that's great.
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> Me, I'd build a linux distribution to solve the world's problems....  :)
08:53 <guru3> :)
08:54 <guru3> you can't deny that it's cool Lucifer_arma 
08:55 <guru3> http://forums2.armagetronad.net/
08:55 <guru3> got seperate domain working
08:55 <guru3> no funny forwarding problems
08:56 <guru3> now to just get it to transfer new avatars & whatnot
10:35 -!- niederwe [n=d450ebd2@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
11:03 -!- niederwe [n=d450ebd2@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
11:41 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-8-224.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
11:41 <madmax|pt> hi all
11:45  * z-man-work greets max
11:47 <guru3> hello there
11:48 <madmax|pt> decided to take a look at the chan...
11:48 <madmax|pt> havent used irc in a long time
11:48 <guru3> it's not very exciting this time of day
11:49 <guru3> for some reason like the morning (gmt) is when it's liveliest
11:49 <guru3> or mainly
11:49 <guru3> it's liveliest when i've got other stuff to distract me :/
11:52 <madmax|pt> i dont know about other... hmm... "countries", but most of the people i know dont use IRC anymore (or dont even know what is it) and only use MSN Messenger...
11:52 <guru3> yeah lot of people using msn
11:52 <guru3> but i still like irc
11:53 <madmax|pt> M$ monopoly...
11:53 <guru3> hence why i'm here :D
11:53 <madmax|pt> i used to have a lot of fun in IRC, but people stopped.... "showing up"
11:53 <guru3> it's taken a while
11:53 <guru3> but people started showing up here
11:54 <madmax|pt> more people than i expected here :D
11:54 <guru3> and, we're even talking :D
11:54 <guru3> "jackpot!"
11:56 <madmax|pt> lolol
11:56 <madmax|pt> now thats strange...
11:56 <madmax|pt> :D
11:56 <guru3> yeah
11:56 <guru3> often people go
11:56 <guru3> "hello?"
11:56 <guru3> and leave 5 seconds later
11:56 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
11:57 <madmax|pt> yep
12:19 <z-man-work> nemostultae: thanks for the build
12:20 <madmax|pt> nemo is the one who makes the osx binaries right?
12:20 <z-man-work> right
12:42 <spider_> what time is it in germany?
12:43 -!- spider_ is now known as McSpiddles
12:44 <madmax|pt> 19:43...
12:44 <madmax|pt> i guess
12:44 <McSpiddles> what's that in a 12 hour format?
12:44 <madmax|pt> lol
12:45 <madmax|pt> you're joking, right?
12:45 <McSpiddles> i bought a watch with a digital time and one with the hands
12:45 <McSpiddles> no,i suck at times/timezones
12:46 <madmax|pt> you've noticed that if you do: X-12 you get a 12 hour format?
12:46 <madmax|pt> :P
12:46 <McSpiddles> not really :p
12:46 <McSpiddles> i don't really keep track of my own timezone :/
12:46 <madmax|pt> lol
12:46 <McSpiddles> if it wasn't for that little clock at the bottum of the screen i wouldn't know
12:48 <McSpiddles> gotta take my pups to get there shots today
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16:07 <wrtlprnft> grr. Opera now has that useless tray icon under linux, too :(
16:08 <wrtlprnft> annoyed me under windows and i was happy it didn't show up on linux, and now it does :(
16:08 <wrtlprnft> and the only way to disable it disables the mail client, too
16:17 <wrtlprnft> and it's ugly, too, no transparency. and totally useless
16:19 <madmax|pt> lol
16:20 <wrtlprnft> not lol. I'm mad.
16:20 <madmax|pt> i'm mad too, nice to meet you
16:20 <madmax|pt> :P
16:20 <wrtlprnft> that was something to laugh at windows users for having that thing, and now i have it too
16:21  * wrtlprnft considers switching to firefox or konqueror
16:21 <madmax|pt> ... or console browser?
16:21 <madmax|pt> lol
16:22 <wrtlprnft> everything that doesn't force me to have a tgra
16:22 <wrtlprnft> tray icon
16:24 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:44 <madmax|pt> coming next, a new episode of "wrtl's manifest"
16:44 <madmax|pt> ...or not
16:45 <wrtlprnft> well, it annoys me, having something eating away valuable screen space
16:46 <wrtlprnft> not everyone has a resolution of 1600x1200
16:46 <wrtlprnft> then i indeed wouldn't care about 256 pixels
16:47 <madmax|pt> well, thats true
16:48 <madmax|pt> what window manager do you use?
16:51 <wrtlprnft> kwin
16:52 <wrtlprnft> and no, I won't switch away from kde just because my browser decided to annoy me with some idiotic icon
16:52 <wrtlprnft> and some tray icons are actually useful
16:53 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["You're Unique... Just like everybody else. =P"]
16:53 <madmax|pt> get OSX... and its GUI :D
16:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O suure
16:54 <madmax|pt> :P
16:55 <wrtlprnft> OSX looks nice on first view, but everytime i try to do something with it i notice its limits
16:55 <madmax|pt> like?
16:55 <wrtlprnft> for example, i can't really select the color i want something i hilighted to have
16:56 <wrtlprnft> there's just some very weird colors to choose from, and they all suck.
16:56 <nemostultae> Choose Other
16:56 <nemostultae> and you get a colorpicker
16:56 <madmax|pt> huh!?
16:56 <madmax|pt> yep nemo
16:56 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know if that's jsut the setup of the computers in my school, but there are some buttons in the dock i can't get rid of
16:57 <madmax|pt> and can choose... "all" colours
16:57 <wrtlprnft> system settings, finder, safari, quicktime
16:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, that wasn't there for me
16:57 <wrtlprnft> and, yes, the highest mouse speed setting is way too slow for me
16:58 <madmax|pt> finder you cant remove from dock
16:58 <wrtlprnft> and the rest?
16:58 <madmax|pt> not real issues wrtl...
16:58 <madmax|pt> the rest you can
16:58 <wrtlprnft> well, enough issues for me
16:59 <wrtlprnft> well, on that computer I can't, and i never use either of those buttons
16:59 <wrtlprnft> if i want to open a file i use a console window, way faster
17:01 <nemostultae> nothing stoping you from doing that. 
17:02 <wrtlprnft> well, fact is that those icons refuse to go away. Might be the setup of those computers, but it annoys me
17:03 <madmax|pt> lol
17:03 <wrtlprnft> and what about the mouse thing?
17:03 <nemostultae> This is a dumb question, but you quit the apps, right?
17:04 <wrtlprnft> yes i do, in fact i never open them
17:04 <wrtlprnft> except finder of course, but i can understand it has to be there
17:04 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
17:05 <madmax|pt> maybe the icons are blocked to avoid users from modifying the default setup
17:05 <madmax|pt> thats a public computer right?
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well, I have my own account on it, but no root rights
17:06 <nemostultae> http://homepage.mac.com/bhines/mousezoom.html <- and it's made by the guy who did the Mac OS X armagetron port
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well, why should I be forced to have those buttons? especially the presence of quicktime smells like it is something apple wanted
17:06 <madmax|pt> btw, i was *trying* to use the mouse with max tracking speed, thats really too fast
17:07 <madmax|pt> wrtl thats probably someone's responsability, not OSX's GUI fault
17:07 <wrtlprnft> why should it even provide an option to lock me in with certain applications in the dock?
17:08 <wrtlprnft> that smells like "all users are stupid, they could remove them by accident and not be able to get them back"
17:08 <madmax|pt> rule no.1: users are stupid
17:08 <wrtlprnft> well, there's levels of stupidity
17:09 <wrtlprnft> and i want to decide how stupid i am, not the system
17:09 <wrtlprnft> nemostultae: thanks for the link, I'll try it out tomorrow
17:09 <madmax|pt> deal is, its not the system, its the admin
17:10 <madmax|pt> is it the OSX Server?
17:10 <wrtlprnft> probably the admin is an apple guy since the systems are sponsored
17:10 <nemostultae> last release: Mar 12, 2002. You may want to look for a different solution
17:10 <wrtlprnft> which means they would have an interest in forcing people to quicktime
17:10 <madmax|pt> quick search: http://macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36788
17:11 <nemostultae> You can launch apps when you log in and have them hidden, you are sure they are not running?
17:11 <nemostultae> No black triangle underneath
17:11 <wrtlprnft> nope
17:12 <wrtlprnft> i right-clicked them, no quid item and no remove either
17:12 <wrtlprnft> *quit
17:12 <madmax|pt> but, are we discussing the GUI or someone's decisions in putting something someway?
17:12 <madmax|pt> i think thats the point
17:12 <madmax|pt> its what the system can do, not how it is configured
17:13 <wrtlprnft> I'm saying my experience with macs isn't that great
17:15 <nemostultae> Hmm, yea, the admin took away your rights to modify the dock. That sucks.
17:15 <nemostultae> I just did it to myself
17:16 <wrtlprnft> Well, i can add my own icons
17:16 <wrtlprnft> and i think some of them that were already there i could remove
17:17 <wrtlprnft> I guess i wouldn't have those troubles if i owned a mac, but there's no way I'm paying 1k bucks for it
17:18 <wrtlprnft> for i have two machines that work totally fine
17:18 <wrtlprnft> and i don't know how long it will take opera to add some annoyance to OSX, too
17:18 <n54> it's the same in both windows and *nix: locking down users is a thing you _want_ to do as a sys-admin, you don't want to spend all your time fixing stuff they've done afterwards
17:19 <nemostultae> Yea, but modifying the dock??
17:19 <n54> I haven't used any apple products in over 10 years so I don't know about the dock ^^
17:19 <wrtlprnft> uh, it won't be the admin to fix it but the teacher
17:19 <madmax|pt> "My father and I are currently teaching a pair of 80 year olds (computer newbies) how to use a mac. However, they have a habit of dragging icons out the dock, and then of course Poof! its gone!"
17:20 <madmax|pt> thats useful
17:20 <n54> hehe madmax
17:20 <madmax|pt> thats a quote btw
17:20 <n54> and hello
17:20 <wrtlprnft> well. I'm not an 80 year old
17:20 <wrtlprnft> what about an option in the preferences somewhere?
17:20 <madmax|pt> well, that takes us to the "level of stupidity"
17:21  * n54 locks down wrtlprnft ^^
17:21 <wrtlprnft> you could enable that by default and whoever gets far enough to disable that option should be able to handle it
17:21 <n54> j/k of course :)
17:21 <madmax|pt> of course the admin wouldnt set specific settings for all users, must be general
17:21 <madmax|pt> and hi n54
17:21 <madmax|pt> :D
17:22 <wrtlprnft> well. If there's a setting "[X] I'm stupid and don't want to delete items in my dock" the admin could have it for all users by default
17:22 <wrtlprnft> and then the advanced user could say, "no, i'm not stupid, i want to delete them" and disable that setting
17:23 <madmax|pt> but stupid people can do the most incredible things
17:23 <n54> no way, that's a recepy for disaster
17:23 <wrtlprnft> you just have to hide it well enough
17:23 <madmax|pt> lol
17:23 <madmax|pt> i think thats not an option
17:23 <n54> you want to know a secret?
17:23 <wrtlprnft> lol no
17:23 <n54> ok
17:24 <wrtlprnft> hide means put it in the system settings where 80 year olds usually don't go
17:24  * n54 is gonna tell anyway
17:24 <madmax|pt> continuing quote: "PS: It still  me how they managed to delete System Preferences, AFTER we (my dad and I) had used it previously  !"
17:24 <wrtlprnft> there's more dangerous settings there. you could make your dock super big or super small
17:24 <n54> here it is: _everybody_ is stupid
17:24 <madmax|pt> @ http://macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36788
17:25 <madmax|pt> so, the "usually wont go" doesnt work
17:25 <madmax|pt> ...rest my case
17:25 <madmax|pt> lol
17:25 <madmax|pt> we cant "suppose" that people wont change this or that
17:25 <wrtlprnft> well, if they manage to delete the system settings they won't reach that item anymore, right?
17:26 <madmax|pt> lol
17:26 <wrtlprnft> well, you can't suppose people will destroy there most important data by putting their floppy on a big magnet
17:26 <wrtlprnft> *won't
17:26 <madmax|pt> "there's more dangerous settings there. you could make your dock super big or super small"
17:26 <madmax|pt> how is this dangerous?
17:27 <madmax|pt> if thats for a specific user
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, the 80 year old will have trouble using a super small dock
17:27 <wrtlprnft> or he could set the mouse super fast so he can't correct his setting
17:27 <madmax|pt> but thats not dangerous, it would be much more easily recoverable
17:27 <wrtlprnft> with help from outside
17:28 <wrtlprnft> the few items in the dock are recoverable as well
17:28 <madmax|pt> ...dont know if OSX can block dock size too
17:28 <madmax|pt> but harder
17:28 <wrtlprnft> it isn't blocked for me, even though i'm considered stupid
17:29 <madmax|pt> lol
17:29 <nemostultae> Alright, I've turned on the voice-over option and I have turned off my scren.
17:29 <madmax|pt> thats showoff
17:30 <wrtlprnft> :P
17:30 <madmax|pt> btw, whats the best irc program for OSX?
17:30 <nemostultae> it didn;t read the chat to me :(
17:30 <nemostultae> didn't*
17:30 <madmax|pt> lol
17:30 <wrtlprnft> irssi is the best if it exists for OSX
17:30 <madmax|pt> it does
17:30 <nemostultae> I use x-chat, it kinda sucks.
17:31 <madmax|pt> yep... thats what im using now...
17:33  * n54 uses gaim
17:34 <n54> but I'm not on osx :)
17:34  * wrtlprnft uses irssi
17:34 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma uses konversation
17:34 -!- nemostultae2 [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:36 <nemostultae2> colloquy has got better since I last used it.
17:37 <nemostultae2> I think I'll switch to it.
17:37 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["I quit."]
17:37 -!- nemostultae2 is now known as nemostultae
17:37 <wrtlprnft> test 123 wrtlprnft test
17:37 <wrtlprnft> grr
17:38 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
17:39 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:41 <wrtlprnft> #echo test wrtlprnft test
17:41 <armabot> test wrtlprnft test
17:41 <wrtlprnft> yay
17:42 <wrtlprnft> #echo test asdfwrtasdf test
17:42 <armabot> test asdfwrtasdf test
17:42 <wrtlprnft> works :)
17:43 <madmax|pt> what are the bot commands?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> i just figured out a way to make irssi hilight every message that contains "wrt"
17:44 <wrtlprnft> and i needed armabot to say it since it doesn't hilight messages from me
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #list
17:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Herald, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Owner, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #later tell madmax|pt try this
17:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:44 <wrtlprnft> #f
17:44 <armabot> Random Fortune:  The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub.
17:45 <n54> #roulette
17:45 <armabot> n54: Error: The command "roulette" is available in the Alias and Games plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "roulette".
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #g 1+2+3+the answer to life the universe and everything
17:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 1 + 2 + 3 + the answer to life the universe and everything = 48
17:45 <n54> wtf!
17:45 <n54> #help alias roulette
17:45 <armabot> n54: (alias roulette <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "ignoreme $*".
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #games roulette
17:45 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
17:45  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
17:45 <wrtlprnft> #insight
17:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The insidious oneness of current epistemologies will evaporate tomorrow's political climate.
17:45 <guru3> #games roulette
17:45 <armabot> guru3: *click*
17:45 <madmax|pt> lol
17:45 <n54> I'm sorry but I'm gonna take away that alias
17:45 <guru3> #games roulette n54
17:45 <armabot> guru3: (games roulette [spin]) -- Fires the revolver. If the bullet was in the chamber, you're dead. Tell me to spin the chambers and I will.
17:45 <guru3> aww
17:45  * guru3 wanted to try and shoot n54 
17:46 <wrtlprnft> #armabot does madmax|pt like you?
17:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Of course.
17:46 <wrtlprnft> #eliza is that true?
17:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: What do you think?
17:46 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
17:47 <wrtlprnft> #man fstab
17:47 <guru3> and good night
17:47 <armabot> wrtlprnft: fstab - static information about the filesystems
17:47 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:47 <wrtlprnft> night
17:47 <wrtlprnft> just showing madmax|pt some commands
17:47 <n54> cya guru3
17:48 <madmax|pt> bye
17:48 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
17:48 <wrtlprnft> oh, yeah, that one's useful too:
17:48 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:48 <n54> #roulette
17:48 <armabot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
17:48  * armabot reloads and spins the chambers.
17:48 <wrtlprnft> #last --with wrt --from madmax|pt 
17:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [17:07:24] <madmax|pt> wrtl thats probably someone's responsability, not OSX's GUI fault
17:48 <wrtlprnft> #seen deja_vu_ 
17:48 <armabot> wrtlprnft: deja_vu_ was last seen in #armagetron 2 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <deja_vu_> *g*
17:48 <n54> and nobody makes aliases for real commands, it's just stupid
17:48 <deja_vu_> o.o
17:48 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
17:49 <n54> as in: with the same name
17:49 <wrtlprnft> that's 3 weeks
17:49 <deja_vu> #seen deja_vu
17:49 <armabot> deja_vu: deja_vu was last seen in #armagetron 2 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 34 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <deja_vu> ^^
17:49 <deja_vu> :(
17:49 <n54> deja_vu hasn't identified after armabot reboot
17:49 <deja_vu> i see^^
17:49 <deja_vu> o.o
17:49 <madmax|pt> deja vu? someone changed the matrix...
17:49 <wrtlprnft> #seen deja_vu 
17:49 <armabot> wrtlprnft: deja_vu was last seen in #armagetron 5 seconds ago: <deja_vu> o.o
17:49 <wrtlprnft> there you go
17:50 <deja_vu> =]
17:50 <wrtlprnft> just the name change that confuses it
17:50 <deja_vu> ok, guess i'll have to talk more :P
17:51  * Lucifer_arma is back.
17:51 <n54> wb
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> re
17:51 <wrtlprnft> uh, morning i guess
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> damn thing didn't build python!
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> hve to have python!
17:52 <n54> absolutely
17:52 <n54> and the damn thing is rocklinux I guess?
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah ;)
17:52 <n54> :)
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> when it was still early in the process, I disabled "keep building if a package fails", so it would stop if a package failed to build
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> because the early packages are things like binutils and gcc, and it can't build if they fail
17:53 <n54> mm
17:54 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873D5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:57 <n54> time to wake up for real *away*
17:58 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:58 <ghableska> hi
18:04 <wrtlprnft> hi
18:04 <madmax|pt> hi ghab
18:04 <ghableska> hi wrtlprnft, madmax|pt
18:05 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/download.php?id=2871
18:05 <wrtlprnft> nice idea for a multiscreen background
18:06 <ghableska> who's is it?
18:06 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=48351#48351
18:06 <ghableska> ah :)
18:06  * wrtlprnft is off to arma
18:06  * ghableska waves good bye
18:07 <ghableska> grr
18:08 <ghableska> windows is strange
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> sweet, it built python with only a few dependencies needing to be satisfied :)
18:18 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
18:21 <ghableska> so...
18:22 <Self_Destructo> #notes
18:22 <armabot> Self_Destructo: Error: I have no notes waiting to be delivered.
18:22 <deja_vu> hey Self_Destructo :)
18:22 <Self_Destructo> hey there
18:23 <madmax|pt> bye all
18:23 <Self_Destructo> cya
18:23 <ghableska> bye
18:25 <McSpiddles> man
18:25 <McSpiddles> taking 2 big black lab pups to get shoots
18:25 <McSpiddles> where other small dogs are
18:25 <ghableska> heh
18:25 <McSpiddles> not a good idea :/
18:26 <McSpiddles> atleast i finally got them to figure out what sit means
18:26 <McSpiddles> now gonna teach them "stay"
18:26 <ghableska> congrats ;)
18:26 <McSpiddles> they're almost 6 months old
18:26 <McSpiddles> and huge for there age
18:27 <ghableska> how big?
18:27 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:27 <McSpiddles> they're taller than my knee
18:27 <McSpiddles> and have big paws
18:27 <ghableska> :O
18:27 <ghableska> nice
18:27 <ghableska> brb
18:27 <McSpiddles> yea
18:27 <McSpiddles> they stand up and they're taller than my waist
18:28 <McSpiddles> good dogs,just need to be trained,which i'm working on :D
18:28 <McSpiddles> full blooded balack labs
18:28 <McSpiddles> webbed feet and all
18:28 <McSpiddles> got them free :)
18:29 <McSpiddles> man it was friggin hot today
18:32 -!- nemostultae [n=lee@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
18:34 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
18:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's still friggin hot today
18:35 <McSpiddles> not here anymore
18:35 <McSpiddles> it's 6:3-
18:35 <McSpiddles> 30
18:35 <McSpiddles> cooling off
18:35 <McSpiddles> it's sad really
18:35 <McSpiddles> i can go swimming and not get a sunburn
18:35 <McSpiddles> i sit in a car for 1 hour and my face gets sunburn
18:36 <McSpiddles> kinda stings
18:36 <McSpiddles> :/
18:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-067-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
18:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-067-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
18:39 <ghableska> back
18:39 <wrtlprnft> then don't sit in a car for an hour
18:40 <McSpiddles> i had too
18:40 <McSpiddles> :/
18:40 <McSpiddles> either that or start walking and wait for them to drive by
18:41 <wrtlprnft> then put some underwear over your head as protection
18:41 <McSpiddles> lol
18:41 <wrtlprnft> #last --with under --from spidey
18:41 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [18:31:56] * spidey grabs wrtlprnft's underwear. pulls it over wrtlprnft's Head..... Now you look much better. The brown stain accentuates the shoes.
18:41 <McSpiddles> :p
18:42 <McSpiddles> hmm
18:43 <McSpiddles> the amityville horror
18:43 <McSpiddles> i'ma watch
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> roll down the window next time
19:04  * Lucifer_arma notes that it's total time exposed to the sun that matters, so if the hour wait in the car happened right after the hour of swimming, then 2 hours of sunlight caused the sunburn
19:12 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:15 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:16 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:20 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:21 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:25 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
19:30 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
19:35  * wrtlprnft notes that it's a mixture of the total time, the amount of sun and filtering, and the time that you were not exposed that matters
19:41  * Lucifer_arma notes that that doesn't change his meaning :)
19:47 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:47 -!- SD_away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
19:49 <Lucifer_arma> this build your own distribution is neat.  I think I'm going to blow off the gentoo partition and instead make it a rock linux partition
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> if it's as neat a distribution as the build system is, that is.  And then I'll make Dave's Stupid Linux Distribution :)
20:02 <n54> no Lux Nux, or LuLiNu? :|
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> Lucifer Linux would be pretty cool, that's true :)
20:04 <n54> :)
20:04 <Lucifer_arma> with a highly patched lilo called lulo
20:05 <n54> hehe
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> mind you, I need to see the thing running first
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> hey GodTodd: Check out ROCK Linux, and their flagship Crystal Linux
20:09 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/
20:10 <Lucifer_arma> my carlinux distribution is built, now I'm building the boot disk distribution.  The two combine together to make the installer iso image
20:19 <McSpiddles> gay
20:19 <McSpiddles> i was thinking about getting arma hosting,so i googled it and it mostly returned that old ass expliot :/
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> that was so heterosexual
20:21 <McSpiddles> ?
20:23 <McSpiddles> blah
20:23 <McSpiddles> anyone know a gameserver host that has a tron package?
20:23 <n54> no no no it's was so monogamous!
20:23 <McSpiddles> google's being gay :/
20:24 <McSpiddles> something besides distortgaming
20:27 <wrtlprnft> why not just take a vserver, now that we've established that you can run an arma server there w/o problems
20:28 <McSpiddles> ?
20:28 <McSpiddles> what's a vserver?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #wikipedia vserver
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Search took 0.15 seconds: Linux- VServer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer>; Virtual private server - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vps>; Virtualization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization>; Load balancing (computing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (2 more messages)
20:29 <McSpiddles> eh?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> it's a server that hosts multiple linux systems
20:30 <McSpiddles> yea,i know what a virtual server is
20:30 <wrtlprnft> well then
20:30 <nemostultae> [03:28am] McSpiddles: what's a vserver?
20:30 <wrtlprnft> get one and install arma on it using your uber1337 skills
20:31 <McSpiddles> he didn't say "virtual server"
20:31 <McSpiddles> lol @ uber1337
20:41 <n54> huh... I see I'm being listed as the author of streamripper at the rocklinux packages... that's just so wrong... Jon Clegg is the author and creator *thinks he'll have to do something about that"
20:49 -!- SD_away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> it was so pathetically homophobic
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> homophobia < dirt
20:52 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:52 <ghableska> hi
20:52 <n54> we're all homo's! homo homo sapiens or homo sapiens sapiens (I forget which) XD
20:52 <n54> hi
20:54 <ghableska> isn't it the latter?
20:54 <n54> I can't remember, it might very well be
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think people who are homophobic deserve any rights
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> being homophobic signs off on all your natural rights, and that makes you my bitch
20:55 <n54> lol
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I would support legislation to that effect
20:55 <Lucifer_arma> I'm pretty sick of intolerant attitudes
20:56 <ghableska> :)
20:56 <n54> yeah but I'm in no mood to treat them as "protectd species" either - they're just like anybody else, i.e. most are stupid (but nice)
20:58 <n54> and the word gay means colorful :)
20:58 <Lucifer_arma> right.  :)  Google's always gay, and that's why we love it so much.  :)
20:58 <n54> :D
20:58 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:59 <n54> teh us version of queer eye for the straight guy is cool stuff, there's a norwegian copy but they lack the charisma of the americans
20:59 <n54> the*
21:01 -!- nemostul1ae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
21:02 -!- nemostultae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:04 <wrtlprnft> looks like nemosultae's new irc client tends to leave
21:05 <nemostul1ae> no, I'm on the edge of my wireless network
21:05 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:06 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> at least it doesn't spam us when it leaves
21:06 <wrtlprnft> ever tried gtk-engines-qt?
21:06 <wrtlprnft> that thingy rocks
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, couple of years ago when it was very new and didn't work well
21:07 <wrtlprnft> finally gvim and GIMP look like the rest of my programs
21:07 <wrtlprnft> it works fine for me now
21:07 <wrtlprnft> but it depends on your QT style i guess
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> a couple of years is a looong time in open source development
21:10 <wrtlprnft> yeah
21:10 <wrtlprnft> so, the only thing left that looks totally awful is fontforge
21:11 <wrtlprnft> and something tells me that won't change anytime soon
21:12 <n54> :)
21:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, fontforge uses a custom widget set, iirc
21:14 <wrtlprnft> it depends on openmotif
21:14 <wrtlprnft> i think
21:19 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I built the wrong target for my bootdisk, no wonder it won't boot!
21:20 <Lucifer_arma> another hour or so to see if this one works, maybe longer.
21:21  * Lucifer_arma considers setting up a distributed build environment
21:21 <n54> floppies galore :) (I'm sure I would go through a lot of them)
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  bootdisk is an iso image I'm going to run in qemu to test
21:22 <Lucifer_arma> when I get it all together, I'll put it on a CD to install to the computer I'm putting in my car
21:23 -!- nemostul1ae [n=nemostul@a1174.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> nice that I can use qemu to test, though.
21:24 <n54> I've never used qemu
21:25 <wrtlprnft> yeah, qemu is nice
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> emulator.  :)  I dont' think it runs windows, but it does fine with linuces, afaik
21:26 <wrtlprnft> it does
21:26 <wrtlprnft> actually, windows runs just fine
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> really?
21:26 <wrtlprnft> rarely use it, though. no idea if that win98 image i have is still intact
21:26 <wrtlprnft> i used it for testing pages in IE until i came over IEs4lin
21:26  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he really cares anymore.  He doesn't want to work hard to support an OS that nobody ever tells him they're actually using.
21:27 <n54> haha I use windows :)
21:27 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't have 3D support, so it's pretty useless for compiling arma
21:27  * n54 tells Lucifer
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> see, here we've got people testing and working under windows.  But for my alarm clock....  I've lost a lot of time making it run in windows, and I dont' even know if anybody's using it
21:27 <n54> but your alarm clock is python
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> if this rock-linux thing is so cool, I might just put together a liveCD for my alarm clock and direct windows users to use it.
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> yes, it's python, but playing music in python is a pain.
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> the libraries available are either unmaintained, have unmaintained python bindings, or don't work in windows.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to retool to use commandline apps instead, like moosic and mpd do, I think that'll be better.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> maybe someone will materialize with a config that works for windows, and then someone else will appear and maintain the windows build.
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> in the meantime, i've got better things to do with my time  :)  I'd care if people actually told me I had a reason to care, but without knowing, I've got other things to do.
21:29 <wrtlprnft> http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima
21:30 <wrtlprnft> who the heck needs THAT?
21:30 <n54> yeah I wouldn't care about it if I were you
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> when it was a fairly new project, it was worth caring about.  :)  But it's not new anymore, there's over a thousand downloads of it.
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> latin wikipedia?
21:31  * n54 checks what the page is about
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> is it the Roman Catholic version of wikipedia?
21:31 <n54> oh a latin version, well latin speakers are a quite active group for their size
21:32 <n54> you can get donald duck in latin, winnie the pooh etc. etc.
21:32 <wrtlprnft> well, but is there anyone whose mother language is latin?
21:32 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A484.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:33 <n54> I'm sure someone has a mother who speaks latin ;P
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> if there were, they'd be called a latino
21:33 <wrtlprnft> no, but someone whose primary language is latin
21:33 <n54> nope
21:33 <wrtlprnft> the language he/she speaks best
21:33 <n54> you could say the same of esperanto wrtlprnft
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> esperanto is the language of tibet, isn't it?
21:34 <n54> nope :)
21:34 <wrtlprnft> well, there's people who actually speak it everyday and got used to it
21:35 <wrtlprnft> > Although no country has adopted the language officially, it has enjoyed continuous usage by a community estimated at between 100,000 and 2 million speakers and it is estimated that there are about a thousand native speakers.
21:35 <n54> same for latin I suppose
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto
21:35 <n54> yeah but that's just them bragging wrtlprnft :)
21:35 <wrtlprnft> > Although now widely considered an extinct language with very few fluent speakers and almost no native ones...
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin
21:35 <n54> and what are they calling native speakers? esperanto isn't native to anywhere
21:36 <n54> and on the other hand romanian is basically latin
21:36 <wrtlprnft> native = their mothers/fathers teached them that language first
21:36 <wrtlprnft> and then something else as "second language"
21:37  * n54 bets wrtlprnft speaks esperanto and hates latin ;p j/k
21:37 <wrtlprnft> not really. I'm bad at foreign languages, actually
21:38 <n54> doing fine with english :)
21:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I'm making lots of mistakes here :P
21:38 <n54> we all are, it's irc
21:38 <wrtlprnft> you should see my french
21:38 <n54> you should not hear mine ;)
21:39 <wrtlprnft> mon francais n'est pas tres bien
21:39 <wrtlprnft> bien? bon? well, you see...
21:39  * n54 isn't that good at correct norwegian any more either
21:39 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:39 <n54> :)
21:40 <wrtlprnft> I'll have trouble speaking german and writing german essays again once i get back home
21:40 <wrtlprnft> school's gonna be hard for a while, definitely
21:40 <n54> yeah I had a bit of that myself when returning to norway :)
21:41 <n54> I think in english at least hafl the time (when it's actually "word-thoughts")
21:41 <wrtlprnft> ok now, why does mplayer refuse to work now and doesn't compile anymore either?
21:42 <n54> blame Linus :D
21:42 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know that. sometimes i actually find myself wondering about a german translation of an english word
21:42 <n54> mm
21:42 <wrtlprnft> you know, i know the meaning, but i wouldn't know how to express that in german
21:42 <n54> yup I have that a lot
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> I always wonder about german translations of english words...
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> :)
21:43 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:43 <n54> it's an effect of having become somewhat proficient in a language, proficient enough that one has subconsciously realized that translation is never accurate
21:43 <n54> hehe
21:43 <wrtlprnft> on the other hand, sometimes i find myself not knowing some really simple englisgh word
21:43 <Lucifer_arma> that happens to me a lot
21:44 <n54> :D
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> take for exmple, umm, what's the word?
21:44 <wrtlprnft> like cucumber
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> damn, I thought I knew it...
21:44 <n54> agurk!
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> cucumber?
21:44 <n54> /cucumber in norwegian)
21:44 <wrtlprnft> that's the kind of works you don't really learn in school
21:44 <n54> yeah
21:44 <Lucifer_arma> cucumber in norwegian sounds a lot like cucumber in my belly
21:45 <wrtlprnft> or you learn them, but forget them instantly because you're not using them in class
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> well, to really learn a language, you have to live in a culture that speaks it
21:45 <n54> agurk? how so?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> cucumber == Gurke in german
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> I guess these days you can just participate in said culture over the internet, that's probably enough--to a point
21:45 <Lucifer_arma> you still don't learn all the little nuances of stopping at the convenience store or whatever
21:45 <n54> depends on who you're around imo
21:46 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's more like eating at subway :D
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, there's a reason Americans learn Spanish and retain it, while the european languages they learn they forget quickly
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, man, I took 3 years of French, I could read novels when I was done.
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> now I barely remember how to say hi.
21:46 <wrtlprnft> go to quebec
21:46 <wrtlprnft> beurks
21:46  * Lucifer_arma notes that he lives in Texas...
21:46 <n54> fernch... arrrgh it's my nemesis -- five years and I can barely speak it
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> I never had a good accent, that's for sure.  :)  But that's one of the things you have to be in the culture to learn properly, teachers can only take you so far.
21:47 <wrtlprnft> c'est tres malheureux
21:47  * wrtlprnft looked up malheureux :D
21:47 <n54> it's very *something bad*
21:47 <n54> bad timing?
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot most of the verb tenses, even.  I could pick it back up fairly quickly, I'm sure, and I remembered enough to read the manual to the onboard pascal compiler for my clie
21:47 <wrtlprnft> mal = bad; heureux = lucky
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> but reading and generating communication are different things :)
21:48 <n54> oh unfortunate
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yep
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> so, that's very unlucky?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yeah, more like unfortunate
21:48 <wrtlprnft> i think
21:48 <n54> me too :D
21:48 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yay for passe compose, passe simple etc
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> je ne parle pas francais tres bien parce que je suis un americain idiote
21:49 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:49 <n54> meh grammar, it was invented by assholes :P
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> I actually said that to my french teacher during the final interview for French II.  :)  She almost fell on the floor, heh.
21:49 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't it be idiote americain?
21:50 <n54> probably wrtlprnft :)
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> um, sure.
21:50 <wrtlprnft> the french like their adjectives behind the nouns
21:50 <Lucifer_arma> let's just assume I said it right 13 years ago, ok?  :)
21:50 <wrtlprnft> with a few examples
21:50 <n54> :)
21:50 <wrtlprnft> *exeptions
21:50 <n54> exceptions
21:50 <wrtlprnft> in some cases the word means something different in front of it than behind
21:50 <wrtlprnft> yes, whatever :D
21:51  * n54 isn't really a spelling & grammar nazi
21:51 <wrtlprnft> toldya my english is bad
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> Je n'aime pas etudier le grammar
21:51 <wrtlprnft> grammaire?
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> um.... sure :)
21:51 <wrtlprnft> yay, i actually remember something from a year ago
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> hey, we need a french/english dictionary in arma
21:51 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:51 <wrtlprnft> dict.leo.org
21:52 <wrtlprnft> you can translate it from english to german and then german to french
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> uh, that's not a french/english dictionary in arma :)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know, but that thing is useful
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> the point is that I've been trying to speak french to french speakers in an attempt to recover my french and maybe learn a bit more
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, if you speak german and one of english/french/spanish that is
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  I don't speak german, and I don't remember enough french vocabulary to even sanity check what it gives me
21:54 <wrtlprnft> o_O emerge -e mplayer will take days, it seems
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> I think I should email my old editor at newsforge and see if he wants an article on rock-linux
21:55 <wrtlprnft> wanna earn 100 bucks?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> what annoys me about linux.com and newsforge is that their newsfeeds crosslink sometimes
21:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, let's just say I was thinking of paying for my car computer by resurrecting my old freelance writing work and writing about it
21:55 <wrtlprnft> so you get the same thing twice, just one says "read more at (newsforge|linux.com)"
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> also, I think good articles on linux distributions are worth $250+
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully I won't have to print and sign a new contract for it
21:56 <wrtlprnft> What desktop OS do you use every day? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $100.
21:56 <wrtlprnft> that's from newsforge
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm.......
21:57 <wrtlprnft> but your OS isn't on the list yet
21:57 <wrtlprnft> > In recent weeks, we've covered SimplyMEPIS, Xandros, Mac OS X, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, White Box Enterprise Linux, Mandriva PowerPack 2006, Slackware, SUSE, GRML, Kanotix, Gentoo, VectorLinux, CentOS, Damn Small Linux, Frugalware, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, and Arch Linux.
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's not exactly a "do freelance writing for us", it's more like "write something and maybe we'll pay you"
21:57 <wrtlprnft> better be fast or I'll try and write it :P
21:57 <wrtlprnft> they'll pay you if they publish it
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> whoah, dude.  teach your grandma to suck eggs.  A couple of years ago I was a freelance writer, and newsforge was one of my clients.
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> lwn too, for that matter
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> but lwn doesn't pay as well as newsforge
21:58 <wrtlprnft> heh, i was just kidding
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> and that $100 is for commentary, not quite the article i'd be selling
21:59 <n54> go ahead and write it Luci, and tell us if/when it gets accepted/published
21:59 <wrtlprnft> I'll get the it in the newsfeed :D
22:00 <Lucifer_arma> ummmm.....  first I have to dig up Lee's email address.  Then I have to query him and see if he's interested.  If he says yes, I write it.  If he says no, I dig up the lwn guy's email address and try again.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> if he says no, or maybe even before lwn, I'd query, ummm, damn.  I forgot who it is, one of the guys on the Hydrogen list writes for them.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> It's not linux.com....
22:01 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
22:01  * Lucifer_arma hates forgetting things like that.
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> they pay more than newsforge, and they have a print edition
22:01 <Lucifer_arma> montly magazine...
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> (the reason they didn't take any of my work ws because they had someone doing similar work already :(  )
22:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I'll query Lee before I go to bed.
22:02 <wrtlprnft> that's what they tell you ;) jk
22:06 <n54> perhaps do a special on the carbox too when done (as a seperate thing - Make might be intereted in something like that)
22:06 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's the point.  Start with an article on rock linux targetted for organizations that want a custom linux,
22:07 <Lucifer_arma> then as I do stuff with the carbox I can see if there are articles there to be written and write as I go.
22:07 <n54> if I ever get good at a few things I'm planning to figure out I might do something similiar
22:08 <n54> (not computerrelated)
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'll tell you what, if you can write 3-4 articles a week, the going rate is $100-$500 for freelancers
22:08 <Lucifer_arma> you can make $300-$2000/week, if you can keep that pace
22:08 <n54> yeah but I wouldn't be anywhere close to that in my present condition
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> well, turn it around.  If you can write 1 high quality article a week, you can still break $1000/month
22:09 <n54> I've heard the trick is to write one article and customize it for different buyers :) (technical, non-technical etc.)
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's a good trick, but you have to make the contacts first.  :)
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't find enough overlap, and the folks that I queried otherwise weren't interested in what I had to say
22:10 <n54> yeah but you're talking to a guy who barely manages to wash his clothes & shop food XD
22:10 <n54> yeah
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> but he's always here?  :)
22:10 <n54> well what else am I supposed to do? :D
22:10 <Lucifer_arma> you could be writing!
22:11 <n54> it would exhaust me :)
22:11 <Lucifer_arma> so could I, for that matter, heh.
22:11 <n54> (not kidding)
22:11 <n54> :)
22:11  * n54 actually is writing, but nothing instantly sellable
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm...  don't have a solution for that.  but if you could do an article in 3 sessions a week, you only exhaust yourself 3 times
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> ok, you don't write and then sell.  You query first, and if they say go, then you write.
22:12 <Lucifer_arma> it's not like your first novel, where you have to write it first and then sell it.
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> and if they like what you wrote after they said go, then they buy.  If not, they send it back, tell you what's wrong, and you fix it and send it back.
22:13 <n54> sorry my main priority is getting the damned welfare applications filled so i can stop leeching off my family and then try to get well somehow
22:13 <n54> until then time just slips away :)
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know.  :)
22:13 <Lucifer_arma> writing is just fairly easy work, and if you've got your socialist government keeping you up, you might be able to pursue it at your leisure
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> who knows?  You might get well and find yourself a rich and famous writer.  :)
22:14 <n54> hehe doubt it :)
22:14 <Lucifer_arma> then you can spend your well-years writing about your sick-years.  People eat up that stuff.
22:14 <n54> I don't think I could write about it, it's beyond words
22:15 <n54> and I don't much like "social pornography" :)
22:15  * wrtlprnft could be sleeping right now instead of watching plans on how to get rich
22:15 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> ack.  I'm not talking about laying out personal shit, I'm talking about writing shit that sells.  It only has to be inspired by real experiences, you fill in the details :)
22:15 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:15 <n54> hehe wrtlprnft :D
22:15 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
22:15 <Lucifer_arma> haha, 'night wrtlprnft 
22:15 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> this is like the 10th time I've built gcc today
22:16 <n54> :O
22:16 <Lucifer_arma> before this I hadn't even built gcc more than 4 times total
22:16 <n54> I've never done it
22:17 <n54> but I guess practice makes perfect :)
22:17 <Lucifer_arma> I've done it trying to build a cross-compiler, and a couple of minor things like that
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> anjori's coming
22:18 <n54> into the channel?
22:18 <Lucifer_arma> beats me
22:18 <n54> ??
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  there's a few people that I always have advance warning of their arrival because I have their IM addresses.  :)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> surely you've seen it?
22:19 <n54> ah ok
22:19 <n54> yeah but I don't assume from it :)
22:19 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a go grab a smoke, then I should try to get real work done tonight
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> work!?
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> what's that!?
22:20 <n54> it's lots of fun if done right, that's what it is :)
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> hah
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> I know
22:20 <[NP]Tangent> I work at Carl's Jr.
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> (I'm still in high school)
22:21 <n54> ok :)
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> but outside of that
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> I program music
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> mostly terrorcore and speedcore
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> sometimes I do something meaningful
22:21 <[NP]Tangent> but usually it's just weird and stupid
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> anyways
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> off to play some games
22:22 <[NP]Tangent> bbiab
22:22 <n54> cya
22:28 <Lucifer_arma> since when does a new genre of music mean combining some word and "core"?
22:28 <n54> hmm not sure it's that new, branches/offspring from hardcore afaik
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not that new, it's just irritating when I go to look for metal and all the bands I've always listened to are classified as thrashcore, grindcore, speedcore, whatevercore
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> and I have to navigate that psycho hierarchy just to find the old stuff
22:29 <n54> oh I wasn't aware of that and yes that absolutely sucks
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> can I get an oldcore?
22:30 <n54> encore! lol
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> :)
22:30 <n54> :)
22:30  * Lucifer_arma thinks he'll start describing his own music as "encore thrash metal"
22:30 <n54> hehe
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> "So Luci, what kind of music do you want in arma?"
22:31 <Lucifer_arma> "Encore"
22:31 <n54> :)
22:33 <Lucifer_arma> make made make again.
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> see, in lfs you first have to build the toolchain statically linked against your host system's glibc
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> then you use the statically linked binaries to build the toolchain again, including glibc, dynamically linking against the glibc you just built.
22:34 <n54> and in rock?
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> then you chroot to build the rest
22:34 <Lucifer_arma> rock does it, too, but it uses shell scripts to do all the work.
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> so, it's like this
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> Gentoo gives you a stage tarball that already has the first bootstrap done, so you just start emerging packages essentially
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> lfs is Gentoo without the stage tarball and without portage
22:35 <Lucifer_arma> rock is automated lfs with portage (only it's not portage, it's their own package system)
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> and rock generates iso images of binary distributions, so you can then install the system you just built from source on any number of machines
22:36 <Lucifer_arma> it seems to me that rock shouldn't be terribly hard to hack to use rpm or deb or some other packager
22:37 <n54> probably not
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> but their package system is more like lfs, you get the packages directly from the projects, instead of Gentoo which has to keep a copy of the source that goes with the ebuild that's in portage
22:38 <n54> yes I saw that at the rock package thingy for streamripper
22:38 <Lucifer_arma> so if you want to try a new version, you can easily change it in your own checkout
22:38 <n54> yup
22:39 <Lucifer_arma> it's supposed to automatically pick up autotool packages, so making an arma package shouldn't be terribly difficult
22:39 <n54> mm
22:40 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:41 -!- [NP]Tangent [n=hyperdev@71-212-171-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> who the hell is susanne klaus?
22:46 <n54> no idea
22:46 <n54> whee did the name pop up?
22:46 <n54> where*
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I got it.  It's the maintainer of the rock package generated by the script
22:47 <n54> aah it was hannes*something* for sr
22:48 -!- McSpiddles [n=spider@68-112-89-155.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:48 <n54> but I get why you were confused about it :)
22:51 <GodTodd> blergle
22:51 <n54> hi GodTodd :) blerge to you too ;)
22:51 <GodTodd> 'ello
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> there, I just made rock packages for armagetronad and armagetronad-dedicated
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> now, how do I test them?  heh
22:53 <GodTodd> very carefully? ;)
22:53  * Lucifer_arma needs to get Crystal Rock installed on his other partition
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> I might have found me a new distribution....
22:53 <[NP]Tangent> what is Crystal Rock?
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> ummm....
22:54 <GodTodd> think it'd work well for a relative n00b? or should i stick with kubuntu?
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> check out rock linux.  It's a distribution builder, and Crystal Rock is like the flagship distribution made with it
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> oh
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> well
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: I don't know, I've only been building distributions, I don't actually know what the thing looks like :)
22:54 <GodTodd> lol fair enough :)
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> I'm too much of a linux newbie for exploring a distro builder
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> besides
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> I'm happy with my Ubuntu
22:54 <[NP]Tangent> :)
22:55 <GodTodd> i'll have to take a chance on it...i'm a pretty good risk taker most of the time :)
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> building gcc again.  Should be chrooting soon to finish up the bootdisk config
22:56 <GodTodd> never used to be....but 2.5 yrs fighting in court changes your perspective on such things a bit ;)
22:56 <Lucifer_arma> well, in all honesty, if this rock linux thing is so badass, I'm going to build Dave's Stupid Linux Distribution with it once and for all, and end all my distro problems
22:56 <GodTodd> cool
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> hm
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> I should build an ideal distro some time
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> would have lots of multimedia stuff
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> and Armagetron and bzflag
22:56 <[NP]Tangent> because all I ever do
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> is play armagetron, play bzflag, and make music with whatever's handy
22:57 <GodTodd> i should build the ultimate windows distribution....
22:57 <GodTodd> oh wait...they already did.....fdisk
22:57 <GodTodd> :D
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> hahaha
22:57 <[NP]Tangent> beat me to it
22:57 <GodTodd> ;)
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> it would be neat if rock let you put in your own kernel
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> hah
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> so it could be used to build bsd/hurd
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> yeah
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> that would be cool
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> lemme google this rock thing
22:58 <GodTodd> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> rocklinux.org?
22:58 <[NP]Tangent> ah
22:59 <GodTodd> faster that way :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.rocklinux.org/
22:59 <GodTodd> think i'ma look into learning python too
22:59 <GodTodd> man i need to get back into school
22:59 <GodTodd> :/
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> learn esperanto
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> in 4 months, it'll be the only language allowed here
23:00 <n54> lol
23:00 <GodTodd> i think rimmer had a better chance of learning that....i suck at spoken languages anymore
23:00 <GodTodd> ;)
23:00 <[NP]Tangent> I do some PHP
23:00 <[NP]Tangent> kinda-sorta started doing some C
23:01 <GodTodd> i was warned against wasting my time on c or c++
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I wasn't
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I don't know anyone else who does anything with computers
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> in person, at least
23:02 <GodTodd> well...i guess it depends on how much programming experience you have
23:02 <[NP]Tangent> I mean
23:02 <GodTodd> my wife programs for Halliburton
23:03 <GodTodd> so she's my "in" into the workplace world of computers
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> some languages are different, but they have some very big similarities
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> so you don't have to COMPLETELY relearn a structure for something
23:03 <GodTodd> right...c and c++ (mostly the latter) are still good for theory and general programming logic
23:03 <[NP]Tangent> isn't C# what we're all using now?
23:04 <GodTodd> depends on the company....but, yeah the
23:04 <n54> c is still big
23:04 <GodTodd> that's what my wife uses
23:04 <GodTodd> c# that is
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> well
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> all I know right now
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> is that I need to rewrite my irc bot
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> it was a mIRC-powered bot
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> now I'm on linux
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> and I'm wine-free
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> so I'll need something different.
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> and since I know a fair bit of php
23:05 <[NP]Tangent> might as well do that, right?
23:06 <n54> sure, it's not like it's going to be the final language you learn any which way
23:06 <GodTodd> right
23:07 <GodTodd> man....texas really really doesn't want to give resident rates :/
23:08 <n54> as in for schooling etc.?
23:08 <GodTodd> yep
23:09 <n54> hmm I would have thought such stuff followed along with taxes
23:09 <GodTodd> heh...well... texas doesn't have a state income tax
23:10 <n54> oh, ok, well that's good at least :)
23:10 <n54> but yeah that explains it :)
23:10 <GodTodd> :)
23:10 <GodTodd> so i had to dig up my comcast paperwork today so that i can show them a signed work order when i had the cable installed in april of 05
23:11 <GodTodd> that should prove i've been here a year
23:11 <GodTodd> :)
23:11 <n54> yup let's hope so :)
23:11 <GodTodd> otherwise i'd have to go through the same hoops they put luci through
23:11 <GodTodd> and i don't want that :/
23:11 <n54> yeah it's sounds like a drag
23:11 <GodTodd> yep
23:14 <n54> you two are childhood friends or something like that? lived in the same place
23:14 <GodTodd> yeah...known him since junior high
23:14 <n54> cool :)
23:14 <GodTodd> yep :)
23:39 <Lucifer_arma> long time, yeah
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, um, it's basically like this:
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> there's a law (which I actually read), that has very general terms on how to establish residency
23:40 <Lucifer_arma> then there's a board that enforces that law, I think they're appointed--not elected.  That board sets the rules on what documentation is required.
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> the documentation that's required is fairly simple.  Got a texas driver's license?  You're done.  ID card, too, afaik.
23:41 <Lucifer_arma> no license?  Why not?  You're supposed to have it changed over within 30 days!  Or it's a big fine...
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> it degenerates from there.  That's a reasonable place for it to degenerate from.  The main thing is, get them to write down what documents they consider acceptable on some sort of paper that says clearly who wrote it.
23:42 <Lucifer_arma> that way, you can show it to their residence expert.  "Look, this is what you guys told me."  It might not help, but it'll at least let you get yours on the people who lied to you.
23:47 <GodTodd> heh...i HAVE the TXDL
23:47 <GodTodd> not good enough
23:48 <GodTodd> you'd think that they could...oh i don't know....like hook up with the DMV to get an official date of issuance....but then what would be the challenge? ;)
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> no kidding.  Isn't it printed on the card?
23:50 <GodTodd> ummm...dunno...lemmee check
23:50 <GodTodd> nope...just expiration
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> it's not printed on my id card
23:50  * Lucifer_arma is still waiting for his license card in the mail
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> they didn't take the license by itself?  So they want license + some other document?
23:51 <GodTodd> right
23:51 <GodTodd> they have a copy of me license
23:51 <GodTodd> then they wanted my bank statements for the last 12 months
23:51 <GodTodd> which is fine except that our bank charges 2$ a page for those
23:51 <GodTodd> that's some serious cash
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> $24: serious cash
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> they're not one-page statements, are they?
23:52 <GodTodd> nope
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> average 3 pages, then?
23:52 <GodTodd> i'd figure 2-5 on an average month
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3*2*12
23:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3 * 2 * 12 = 72
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> #g 4*2*12
23:52 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 4 * 2 * 12 = 96
23:52 <GodTodd> 72$ is more than free ;)
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> $1 is more than free
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> $0.01 > free
23:52 <GodTodd> and i called today and they said that any bill in my name with a TX address will work
23:53 <GodTodd> so i'ma use my comcast stuff
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> they wouldn't take that, for me
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> well, they wanted that and some other stuff
23:53 <GodTodd> including the work order i signed 4/10/05
23:53 <GodTodd> couldn't sign it if i weren't here
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> so take it in and see what they say.  :)  If you gave a texas license, they probably won't fuck you, I imagine.
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> A texas license would have helped me a ton.
23:53 <GodTodd> i hope not
23:54 <GodTodd> that's my last step...i'm conditionally admitted until they get my transcripts which were mailed today
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> you already called alamo for those?
23:54 <GodTodd> and, AND, i don't have to take any english :D
23:54 <GodTodd> nah...alamo is moot
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> man, when I called, the lady I talked to was just as sweet as could be.  I'll bet she had my transcripts in the mail the next day.
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right, you need from the last college you attended, fuck high school now
23:54 <GodTodd> yep
23:55 <GodTodd> :D
23:55 <GodTodd> fuck high school then heh
23:55 <GodTodd> not just now
23:55 <GodTodd> :)
23:55 <GodTodd> yeah...and my last college sends them for free and allows online ordering....so i did that about this time last night
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat
23:56 <GodTodd> i thought so
23:56 <Lucifer_arma> acc might allow online ordering, but there's a transcript request form in admissions
23:56 <GodTodd> i can also track them since i have like lifetime webadvisor access
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> hey, my idiot brother went to school on a deal where he could get all his F's dismissed, NMSUA
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> he finished this semester with a 3.7!?!
23:57 <GodTodd> i think i'm gonna have to take more math tho before calc I
23:57 <GodTodd> mike did?
23:57 <GodTodd> ?!?!
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah!
23:57 <GodTodd> holy shit batman
23:57  * Lucifer_arma was shocked
23:57 <Lucifer_arma> well, when he went, he got good grades.  His problem was not going and not dropping and getting F's instead
23:58 <GodTodd> the kid make him grow up or what?
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> so after the F's were dismissed and he retook those classes....
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, he is married now, and the girl already had two kids, and they've had another, so they're a 3-kid family too
23:58 <GodTodd> maybe that's what he needed
23:59 <GodTodd> what's he in school for?

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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