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Log from 2006-05-14:
--- Day changed Sun May 14 2006
00:20 <n54> cya all :)
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01:39 <spider> supercalafragalisticsexpealapwnage
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03:05 <philippeqc> morning
03:19 <guru3> good morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> morning
03:19 <Lucifer_arma> philippe:
03:19 <philippeqc> how are you all
03:19 <philippeqc> yes
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3459&highlight=
03:20 <philippeqc> Ebonstar
03:20 <philippeqc> do you still have the log of our discussion?
03:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  I posted the disk image there, I also have a kickstart rom if you need it to run UAE
03:21 <philippeqc> I get the feeling one or 2 crutial details are lacking
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> I probably have the log, but wouldn't be able to find it.  :)
03:21 <Lucifer_arma> um, if you want to fire it up and see the game for yourself, that probably tells you everything I could tell you that's not in that thread already.
03:22 <philippeqc> search for ebonstar! How often does that word pop up in a regular dicussion ;)
03:22 <Lucifer_arma> UAE handles it quite well.  I played it earlier.  :)
03:22  * Lucifer_arma tries to remember where the logs are kept
03:26 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47478#47478
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that may not be the complete chat
03:29 <philippeqc> ok thanks
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, wasn't complete.  Refresh to get the rest.
03:32 <philippeqc> question about ebonstar, cant you just park in a corner far from the black hole and be pretty safe?
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, as long as someone's shot didn't hit you
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> the shots would last for like 30 seconds or longer before they timed out
03:32 <philippeqc> you will just get momentun in the wrong direction, but mostly toward the corner.
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> so someone could bounce one off a few walls and sneak it behind the black hole
03:32 <philippeqc> I guess you bounce off the walls
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> the corners are small, you bounce off the wall and fall in
03:33 <Lucifer_arma> but you spawn in the corners for that reason, they're relatively safe
03:33 <philippeqc> ok
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03:35 <philippeqc> ha, the momentum gained from a missile must be important enough to make you bounce out of your corner
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> it's quite substantial
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> you also lose control while bouncing from it, so you're also stunned when hit
03:36 <philippeqc> o ok
03:36  * Lucifer_arma is remembering details now that he didn't remember because he played it earlier :)
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> check it out, seriously.  I can pm you a kickstart rom for UAE.  Movement keys (for green, anyway) are n,m turn, "," is thrust, and "." is fire
03:38 <philippeqc> ok
03:38 <philippeqc> started my im
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> this probably counts as fair use, so if you don't have a license for a kickstart rom, you should delete it when done :)
03:39 <philippeqc> firewall/router must be making trick
03:40 <philippeqc> msn/jabber?
03:40 <Lucifer_arma> forums.  It's already zipped, I got it that way
03:40 <philippeqc> ok
03:41 <philippeqc> I've downloaded the bin for UAE
03:42 <philippeqc> requires libgtk-1.2, and the install process decided to jam for the first time ever
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ok, pmed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> ?  don't you just run it from the directory it's in?
03:42 <philippeqc> yes, but it needs libgtk, and I dont have it installed
03:42 <Lucifer_arma> compiling it was a pain on Mandriva, when I last tried.  The bin worked, though.  And they had no package.  :(  Kubuntu has a package.  :)
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> oh.
03:44 <philippeqc> quite peculiar! I restarted the install, and it just die(no response from the app) on the second file.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what's up.  I never tried to install it, just ran it from the directory it's in.
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I tried to build it, under the crazy impression I could improve its performance, until I realized it wouldn't matter as fast as my machine is compared to an amiga
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think there's a non-gtk ui, though.
03:46 <philippeqc> it is really jamming (the installation of libgtk is)
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> hm, says I can't pm it to you.  I'll put it on my website.
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> libgtk is jamming?
03:47 <philippeqc> the installation of some package required for it
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> are you installing it from a package, or is the UAE installer trying to do it?
03:47 <philippeqc> I got it to run now
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.
03:48 <philippeqc> no, myself on mandrake
03:48 <philippeqc> I also clicked on some dev files, they must be the ones jamming
03:48 <philippeqc> libgtk had 1 dependency
03:48 <philippeqc> did it in 2 step, the dependency alone, then libgtk alone
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> www.davefancella.com/Kickstart1.3.zip
03:48 <philippeqc> running
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> the game is running?
03:49 <philippeqc> EUA
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  hmm,
03:49 <philippeqc> got the kickstart
03:49 <Lucifer_arma> ok, unzip the kickstart somewhere.  Then in UAE, click the Memory tab
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click Change, in the Kickstart ROM file panel.  Pick the kickstart.rom file wherever you unzipped it
03:50 <philippeqc> done
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> of course, you also should have downloaded the ebonstar.zip file from that thread and unzipped it.  :)
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> click on Floppy disks
03:50 <philippeqc> ok
03:50 <Lucifer_arma> next to df0: click "Insert" and navigate to the ebonstar disk image and select it
03:51 <philippeqc> ok, have the .adf there
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> then click Pause at the top to unpause it and start the emulator
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> .adf is right :)
03:51 <philippeqc> neat
03:51 <philippeqc> wow, I hope the "waiting to start" animation is not the real speel
03:51 <philippeqc> speed
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> it is
03:51 <Lucifer_arma> but it's ok, trust me
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> and remember, this computer was cutting edge in 1986
03:52 <philippeqc> how can I slow it down
03:53 <philippeqc> it is already on "approximate 68000/7mhz speed"
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> ?  it should be running right, UAE is a good emulator that way
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> and 68000/7mhz is the original processor, and the one I had as a kid.  :)
03:54 <philippeqc> took the xi86 bin and I'm running on AMD64. That would mess up anybody
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> the magical aspect of the game was its multiplayer mode.
03:54 <Lucifer_arma> aha
03:54 <philippeqc> ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> CPU emulation tab - click adjustable and fool with it until it feels right
03:55 <philippeqc> I'll loan my gf computer, there is still a linux install on a 10 gig partition ;)
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> uae has a windows version too.  :)  I'm sure you noticed...
03:55 <philippeqc> already did, I'm at the max "cycle per instruction" helped, but still unplayable
03:59 <philippeqc> got it to work
03:59 <philippeqc> optimize for host cpu speed
04:01 <philippeqc> lol, its fun
04:01 <philippeqc> sad I cant rebind the keys
04:02 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: bump on success with the game
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I was playing it myself :)
04:02 <Lucifer_arma> I think UAE will let you rebind keys somehow, but I could be wrong about that
04:03 <Lucifer_arma> but no, ebonstar itself doesn't let you rebind keys.  :(  An obvious improvement we'd make using our engine for it
04:03 <philippeqc> no, just allow me to pick different type of joystick
04:03 <philippeqc> or mouse
04:07 <philippeqc> how do you stop it?
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> I forgot.  :)
04:07 <Lucifer_arma> So I just click the close window button
04:08 <philippeqc> mouse control is not so easy
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not
04:08 <Lucifer_arma> also directional control is hard.  That's where the keys mean directions instead of rotate/thrust.
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> directional control makes sense for joystick controller, actually.
04:09 <philippeqc> yes
04:09 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the game was really fun when you played it with the 4 players it supports.  It was a lot of fun then, oe of the best games ever, imo
04:09 <philippeqc> ok, I see the fun factor
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and that's what we've got, the multiplayer support....
04:10 <philippeqc> I made a small tron game back in the days. Also supported 4 players
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> and an engine that's pretty close to being able to handle it, although z-man suggests gGame should be factored first.
04:10 <philippeqc> random start up position. line = 1 pixel on the screen, had a library that did 1024x768 (from prompt, not windows)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> it used to be a lot of fun to play head-to-head action games on a computer.  This internet thing is fun and has its own charm, but there's still something terribly enjoyable about doig it in person
04:11 <philippeqc> yes, the "ha ha in your face" factor
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  And the "oops I spilled my drink and you died, sorry about that"
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> and you can curse at someone in realtime...
04:12 <philippeqc> at easter, had a talk about LAN with an aunt
04:12 <philippeqc> trying to explain LAN party
04:12 <philippeqc> to someone who dont really get computers
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> we always thought ebonstar was most fun when you played it collaboratively, I think it would adapt to team play very nicely.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> just tell her it's "board games with computers".
04:13 <philippeqc> ended up saying, well, you can play solitary by yourself with a deck of card, or bridge on the computer, but its much more fun to play card with people around you for the small comment and the discussion around the play.
04:13 <philippeqc> the lan party allows for that factor.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but some extra possibilities.  :)
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> "You three play in that room, we three in that room, you other over there.  It's teams"
04:14 <philippeqc> yes, but I've never tried that thou!
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> talking over the table in cards is rude.  Quite a difference there.  :)
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> me neither, actually.  Never done a lan party
04:15 <philippeqc> Had a small one with like 7 friend in my app in montreal. Did mostly Half-Life. One guy never touched the game before. You can guess he was always out of ammo.
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that would be me.  I'm not much for fps games
04:16 <philippeqc> but he picked the mad scientist skin. Seeing him bouncing off the walls, runing toward me with the crowbar got me laughting so hard each time, he always killed me
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> of course, id turned me against fps games by ripping off what was a really great c-64 game for one of their "demos"
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:17  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he still has his old c-64 disk image for Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
04:17 <philippeqc> or warcarf 2, playing on 2 computers nearly side by side agains a friend, exploring the game.
04:17 <philippeqc> each new unit has its own sound.
04:18 <philippeqc> After a while of play, I had invested in lots of research, and I produced a unit that came with a very deep voice and said "I'm aLiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!" 
04:18 <philippeqc> my friend "Whats that????????" me: "nothing for you to worry about ;"
04:18 <philippeqc> he catched up quite fast... and then I got sloppy on the research
04:19 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:19 <philippeqc> so after a while I hear a scretching/whining from the game on his computer.... 
04:20 <philippeqc> "he whats up with the elephants?" I ask, realising that was a unit I havent found yet. He served me my previous answer ... "Oooo, its nothing you need for you to worry about"
04:20 <philippeqc> twas a dragon unit
04:21 <philippeqc> ok, so for Ebonstar, we need:
04:22 <philippeqc> vehicule class, gCycle becomes a sub-class
04:22 <philippeqc> ship is a sub-class of vehicule
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW
04:24 <philippeqc> o my, you dont like fps because id changed some top down action game into one?
04:28 <philippeqc> I never really liked those kind of game. There was something that annoyed me in it. Liked, no loved, the fact that you could walk in one direction and shoot in another, thought that was soooo great! 
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> the problem was that they completely turned me off to the genre by taking a suspenseful game and turning it into a bloodbath
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> first impressions count for a lot
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> BCW was most fun to play when you tried to use the passes to get in and then back out.  If you tried to kill everyone, it was just trouble.
04:34 <Lucifer_arma> so you had to be very selective with which gaurds you killed, make sure to drag them back out of the way where they won't be found, etc.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> then id turns it into a game where you just mow down the whole lot of them.
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> I admit, I wasn't very interested in the idea of a game where you just walk around shooting people anyway, I wanted more from the game
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> but id understandably didn't provide it back then, they were doing cutting edge graphical stuff and had no time for gameplay
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> no idea what they provide now, but carmac's redeemed himself in my eyes by running Armadillo Aerospace.  :)
04:47 <philippeqc>  /away
04:50 <philippeqc> humm, if BCW allowed for such strategy, then yes the 3d's version by id lost this aspect to a new graphic technology.
04:50 <philippeqc> But you cant contest that it launched a totally new wave of gaming
04:52 <philippeqc> The part that I'm aware of still is the same bloodbath, but I've heard of game like Thief where caution and minimal bloodbath is prefered, and required to be successfull (I havent played it thou)
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06:24 <spider> night
06:25 -!- spider is now known as spidey
06:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: any idea how to block and revert spammers on the wiki ?
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07:35 <joda_bot> did I miss something ?
07:35 <joda_bot> gaim crashed
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08:27 <wrtlprnft> omg
08:27 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=1147591032
08:32 <wrtlprnft> [We are delicate. We do not delete your content.]
08:32 <wrtlprnft> wth does that mean?
08:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Where did you read "We are delicate.." ?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> in all those spam things
08:42 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Housing_a_million_spectators&curid=1573&diff=4372&oldid=2778&rcid=3284
08:42 <wrtlprnft> look at the second changed line
08:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: So how to ban and remove those ?
08:42 <wrtlprnft> you need sysop rights to delete pages, and only nemo and Luci have those
08:42 <wrtlprnft> but you can revert the changes like i did
08:43 <joda_bot> It's half hearted and will just mess up history...
08:43 <joda_bot> btw. does a wiki merge concurrent changes ?
08:43 <wrtlprnft> for existing pages there's no better way
08:44 <wrtlprnft> sysops have a button that makes reverting easier, but it does the same thing
08:44 <wrtlprnft> and for pages that are new... they have to be deleted anyways, so it doesn't matter if the history gets messed up
08:45 <wrtlprnft> we should just try to get that spam out of google's reach as fast as possible
08:49 <joda_bot> roger
08:50 <wrtlprnft> i hope we can get captchas soon or something similar
08:56 <joda_bot> just validate all users by email
08:56 <joda_bot> should already make it slower
08:56 <joda_bot> or let some sysop confirm each new user
08:56 <wrtlprnft> second one
08:57 <wrtlprnft> that email thing is useless. It's easy to get some e-mail adress somewhere and use it
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09:11 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: got a warning on windows "autoexpanding string..."
09:11 <joda_bot> this function will go away
09:12 <wrtlprnft> ?
09:13 <wrtlprnft> that means something is requesting a nonexisting char from a string
09:13 <wrtlprnft> like, a char after the end
09:13 <wrtlprnft> go to tString::1134, after that insert a st_Breakpoint();
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and then reproduce the error in a debugger
09:14 <wrtlprnft> and see if you can get anything useful from the backtrace
09:16 <wrtlprnft> err, i mean tString.cpp:1134
09:36 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: just commiting fixed windows projects
09:38 <joda_bot> z-man-home: If I have some time, I'll try to use Code::Blocks resource management to replace makedist.bat
09:40 <joda_bot> hm, perhaps I should also try to automatically set the version descriptors to the current date at build time ... might be tricky though ;)
10:00 <joda_bot> tXmlParser.cpp:553 is called with an empty string
10:00 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:00 <joda_bot> this results in the string being automatically expanded 
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11:20 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: yes, joda_bot is right about the string expansion. The old tString had this as a feature, but it's evil and therefore deprecated. When merging code from b0_2_8, it occasionally gets used, though.
11:20 <z-man-home> It's a good idea to eliminate the cause of the warning.
11:21 <z-man-home> whoops, accidentally uninstalled the main master server
11:21 <n54> :o
11:22 <n54> hi btw :)
11:22 <z-man-home> joda_bot: think of the poor visualC users :) They still need makedist.bat. If you could manage the version replacement, that would be cool, though.
11:22 <z-man-home> hi
11:34 <z-man-home> release process status report: Sources are tagged
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11:43 <guru3> anyone know anything about ptys?
11:44 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Client Quit]
11:47 <z-man-home> that's what I call a drive by question
11:47 <n54> yeah :)
11:49 <z-man-home> release process status report: Linux 32 bit and Windows compilation running
11:59 <z-man-home> WTF? The autopackage builder isn't on my 64 bit machine at work.
12:00 <z-man-home> It was there on
12:01 <joda_bot> z-man-home: makedist.bat does not work on my system... Would it make sense to include a python binary in Winlibs cvs ?
12:02 <joda_bot> to allow makedist.bat to work ?
12:02 <z-man-home> Python binary? No. The usual python installation is easy enough.
12:02 <joda_bot> the problem is that on my system ... even if I assiociate .py with my cygwin python2.4.exe it would execute the python stuff 
12:02 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok, so we just require it to be installed
12:03 <z-man-home> yes
12:03 <z-man-home> We don't require the libraries to be installed because that's a pain to set up in Windows, but Python is easy.
12:04 <joda_bot> ok ... but did it ever work for you to call sortresource.py from makedist.bat ?
12:04 <z-man-home> yes
12:04 <z-man-home> Otherwise, I wouldn't do it :)
12:04 <joda_bot> z-man-home: oh, right I can't build HEAD with memorymanager (in debug mode)
12:05 <z-man-home> May be a Windows version issue, I'm on 2000
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: me too
12:05 <joda_bot> z-man-home: guess it's a cygwin's python problem
12:05 <z-man-home> I don't actually know what Python build I'm using :)
12:06 <z-man-home> Usually I stay away from cygwin, so I guess it's not that.
12:06 <joda_bot> z-man-home: tMemManger.cpp:457 fails
12:06 <z-man-home> to compile or to run?
12:06 <joda_bot> runtime
12:07 <joda_bot> If I'd know what all those tAsserts try to assert ... it might help me understand the problem
12:07 <joda_bot> but I guess I really have to spend atleast a day reading tMemManager.cpp ;)
12:09 <joda_bot> Are there any preconditions for the memory manager to work ?
12:09 <joda_bot> like no compiler optimazations ?
12:09 <joda_bot> I might have activated those for debug mode
12:11 <z-man-home> No, it should always work
12:12 <z-man-home> I fixed a bug in the trunk that made it fail on large allocations, it's unfixed in the branches becasue we don't do them there and the memory manager isn't used on releases
12:13 <z-man-home> Hmm, the assertion may be triggered if there is a memory overwrite error
12:14 <z-man-home> It's in the deallocation portion and checks whether the management data makes sense
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12:14  * z-man-home curses at autopackage
12:20 <z-man-home> where are the fucking amd64 binaries? I mean, I have already used them! They must exist somewhere!
12:24 <guru3> not as bad as pty support suddenly disapearing :/
12:25 <z-man-home> that's what you say :( I'm questioning my sanity here.
12:25 <guru3> that's the last time i try to make something better
12:25 <z-man-home> What is pty anyway? Souds like terminal stuff
12:25 <guru3> yes
12:25 <guru3> it's like what screen uses
12:25 <n54> yes pseudo terminal
12:25 <guru3> consequence is that i can't use screen as a regular user now
12:25 <guru3> WOOO for gentoo! :D
12:26 <guru3> </sarcasm>
12:26 <guru3> i'm probably going to have to reinstall
12:26 <n54> hehe
12:26 <z-man-home> ugh, support for that can go away????
12:26 <guru3> aparently
12:26 <guru3> i think some update to pam fucking screwed it up
12:26 <guru3> and there's like _nothing_ on this
12:26 <guru3> in any documentation
12:26 <guru3> it's just doesn't work anymore
12:26 <n54> yeah there's little on ptys
12:26 <guru3> rephrase: there's no gentoo documentation about this screwing up
12:26 <n54> I looked a bit around google and there's not much
12:27 <z-man-home> The next time such a shit happens to me, I'm switching to Debian.
12:28 <z-man-home> Luckily for Gentoo, it's behaving well for me.
12:28 <n54> perhaps reading man openpty might help guru3? (I just see it in apropos)
12:28 <n54> or forkpty
12:28 <guru3> NO
12:28 <guru3> i want it to work like it did before
12:28 <guru3> i should NOT have to install something else
12:29 <n54> hey we all mess stuff up from time to time, it's part of learning
12:31 <guru3> finally found something
12:31 <n54> perhaps it works for other users than your normal one? tried creating a new user?
12:31 <guru3> 2 hours later
12:31 <guru3> now to just get x working again
12:32 <mkzelda> anyone know how to spell luci's last name
12:32 <mkzelda> trying to look at his personal site
12:32 <n54> Fancella afaik, hold on
12:32 <n54> yeah Fancella
12:32 <mkzelda> thanks
12:33 <guru3> gah sound is broken now too
12:33 <guru3> this SUCKS
12:33 <n54> what did you do to start all this guru3? :)
12:34 <guru3> upgrade xorg
12:34 <guru3> gargh blah
12:34 <n54> wow that's bad
12:36 <guru3> and now for vt switching to work
12:36 <mkzelda> there was an update to gentoo where pam or shadow had a package block, is that what u hit?
12:36 <guru3> there's this damn app i have to emerge
12:36 <guru3> and i can't remember what it is
12:37 <mkzelda> if u didnt update correctly you could lock yourself out of your machine
12:37 <guru3> i'm not locked out
12:37 <mkzelda> u cant screen as another user tho?
12:38 <guru3> i fixed that
12:38 <guru3> that was something else
12:38 <mkzelda> what now?
12:38 <guru3> now
12:38 <guru3> vt switching doesn't work
12:38 <mkzelda> heh
12:38 <mkzelda> keymap problem or vts arent created?
12:39 <guru3> keymap problem
12:40 <z-man-home> release process status report: Linux 64 bit builds are rolling.
12:41 <guru3> to fix list: vt switching; sound
12:41 <guru3> because of all the funtastic things it seems to have lost my damn soundcard
12:44 <guru3> FUCKKKK
12:44 <guru3> GARGH
12:44 <guru3> this is driving me nuts toay
12:44 <guru3> *today
12:44 <guru3> obviously i need more sleep
12:46 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yes, tXmlParser gets called with an empty string
12:47 <guru3> what did i do to deserve this :(
12:48 <wrtlprnft> :(
12:48  * z-man-home postpones his Xorg update
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: uh, err, scratch that. It shouldn't.
12:49 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: what calls tXmlParser with an empty string? the cockpit? the rotation? the maps?
12:49 <guru3> in other news
12:49 <guru3> exiting by your window
12:49 <guru3> is not a good idea here
12:50 <guru3> cause it's a lot further to the ground than you think
12:50 <z-man-home> guru3: umm, have you tested that theory in practice?
12:50 <guru3> yes i had to go outside just now
12:51 <guru3> and i didn't feel like putting on shoes
12:51 <z-man-home> ouch
12:51 <guru3> and going the long way around on the gravel
12:51 <guru3> so i thought why not pop out the window
12:51 <guru3> and save several feet of gravel
12:51 <n54> ground floor I hope
12:51 <guru3> yes
12:51 <n54> :D
12:51 <guru3> but there's like 20 or 30cm difference in hight
12:51 <guru3> which makes getting in extremely difficult
12:51 <mkzelda> guru3: switch to BarbieOS
12:52 <z-man-home> mkzelda: whazzad? Windows XP?
12:52 <mkzelda> http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/barbieOS.htm
12:52 <guru3> don't be a smartallac
12:52 <n54> don't add insult to injury
12:52 <mkzelda> rofl
12:52 <n54> it's based on debian! XD
12:53 <n54> we have just seen the face of satan :S
12:53 <mkzelda> haha, i was positive it was a joke for a while
12:54 <n54> no it looks like it's for real
12:54 <mkzelda> well then theres the link of the ppl dead in piracy raid
12:54 <n54> ??
12:55 <mkzelda> look at the links at the bottom
12:55 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I guess the cockpit file is not found or broken (not sure)
12:55  * n54 ins't sure he want's to opent hat page again
12:55 <mkzelda> metallica fights against underage drinking and loud music
12:56 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
12:56 <@guru3> don't try me right now
12:56 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: but the basic problem is that GetProp("string") returns NULL or "" which is converted to an empty string by tString
12:56 <n54> hmm ok perhaps it's just a joke then
12:56 <joda_bot> and an access to string[0] expands it by 1 :|
12:57 <wrtlprnft> it should return an empty tString
12:57 <z-man-home> Umm, maybe the expansion code is a bit too proactive
12:58 <wrtlprnft> can you find out the arguments of that GetProp call?
12:58 <joda_bot> the getPropBool in tXMLParser is flawed in my view
12:58 <joda_bot> it can't handle a missing propertie
12:58 <joda_bot> either an exception has to thrown or a NULL pointer has to be returned
12:58 <joda_bot> e.g. change signature to bool ?
12:58 <joda_bot> bool *
12:58 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah now i see
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: it's happening while parsing lucifers cockpit file
12:59 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: until later ... need some rest... hope to be back in 1h and 30 min
13:00 <wrtlprnft> k
13:00 <joda_bot> but there should be enough players for the 8th ;)
13:00 <joda_bot> 4 vs. 6 or something like that
13:01 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: ok, fixed it i hope
13:20 <z-man-home> Waa! CVS Test just crashed :(
13:20 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
13:20 <wrtlprnft> happy bugfixing
13:21 <wrtlprnft> looks like ftgl only takes wchars for unicode, so i assume that I have to convert :(
13:21 <z-man-home> It's running the code that's in the release I just put together :|
13:21 <z-man-home> yes, looks like you have to convert
13:22 <wrtlprnft> so i have to convert every character for every frame? that seems a bit resource hungry
13:22 <wrtlprnft> it's a rc, right?
13:22 <z-man-home> yes
13:22 <wrtlprnft> just pretend the crash happened after the release ;)
13:22 <z-man-home> haha
13:22 <z-man-home> Stupid thing is, it's already the second one
13:23 <z-man-home> the first one happened this morning, but it didn't happen again on playback
13:23 <wrtlprnft> some real- world glitch?
13:23 <mkzelda> is now a bad time to checkout?
13:23 <z-man-home> That's what I tought this morning
13:23 <z-man-home> naa
13:24 <z-man-home> mkzelda: the Trunk probably isn't affected
13:24 <mkzelda> okay
13:24 <wrtlprnft> CVS HEAD is working fine
13:24 <z-man-home> I bet it's one of my perfectly riskless fixes :|
13:24 <wrtlprnft> haha
13:25 <wrtlprnft> do you have a core dump/backtrace?
13:25 <z-man-home> I have a recording
13:25 <wrtlprnft> doesn't help if it won't crash again
13:25 <z-man-home> Playing it back in the debugger right now
13:25 <z-man-home> the crash from just now does happen again
13:25 <z-man-home> well, it did happen again once
13:26 <z-man-home> Hope the debugger doesn't make it go away
13:26 <z-man-home> gaa, playing back the wrong recording...
13:27 <wrtlprnft> lol
13:27  * z-man-home has to prepare dinner
13:28 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
13:28 <wrtlprnft> don't rush yourself... doesn't matter if we release now or next week...
13:29 <wrtlprnft> I don't see anyone using that ***** bug on any server yet
13:29 <spidey> wrtlprnft, wanna practice?
13:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, wait a few secs
13:29 <spidey> k
13:29 <spidey> i'll be in there
13:35 <wrtlprnft> blah
13:35 <wrtlprnft> CVS test is full and i need practice :(
13:35 <wrtlprnft> wouldn't mind i it crashed again right now
14:18 <z-man-home> I think the release trouble is the Universe's revenge for making fun of guru3's problems earlier.
14:18 <z-man-home> It probably thinks it can educate me, ha!
14:20 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:37 <wrtlprnft> ok, now i'm desperate... restarting
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:08:55 2006
15:08 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:08 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
15:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 15 secs
15:09 <joda_bot> wrtlprnf1_: wb
15:09 <joda_bot> we're all ready to go
15:09 <wrtlprnf1_> i know...
15:10 <@guru3> good night
15:10 <n54> cya guru3 :)
15:10 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
15:12 <z-man-home> a spoon match tonight?
15:24 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BAB5B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:26 <n54> I think it might just be a friendly? not sure
15:28 <z-man-home> Yes, I remember from the forum discussion that there were objections against something counting for spoon
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:46:33 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 15:46:48 2006
15:46 -!- wrtlprnf5_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
15:46 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
15:46 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 14 secs
15:57 <wrtlprnf5_> #echo am i online?
--- Log closed Sun May 14 15:57:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:02:56 2006
16:02 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:02 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
16:03 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:03 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:03 <armabot> am i online?
16:03 <wrtlprnft> good
16:05 <wrtlprnft> #echo am i online?
16:05 <armabot> am i online?
16:05 <n54> you are on my end of the line at least ;)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> well, 6 seconds of lag IRSSI tells me
16:06 <n54> gah that's a lot
16:07 <wrtlprnft> one would say so
16:11 <spidey> wrtl
16:11 <spidey> we won 3 outta 5 :p
16:16 <wrtlprnft> niiice
16:16 <wrtlprnft> great job
16:16 <wrtlprnft> I had a major nervous breakdown here
16:17 <spidey> lol
16:17 <spidey> 8th won 1 match
16:17 <wrtlprnft> uh
16:17 <spidey> i'm suprised how much better most of mbc got
16:17 <wrtlprnft> who won the 5th one then?
16:17 <spidey> noone
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:17 <spidey> we played best of 5
16:17 <spidey> we won 3
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:17 <spidey> tey won 1
16:17 <wrtlprnft> let's see how we'll do vs. AW
16:17 <spidey> i love my ping in the spoon server to :<
16:17 <spidey> :>*
16:18 <spidey> 168-178
16:18 <wrtlprnft> well, my lag was a total mess
16:18 <spidey> in cvs it's about 210
16:18 <spidey> :<
16:18 <wrtlprnft> it went up to 900 at some times
16:18 <wrtlprnft> and down to 250 again... totally messed up
16:18 <wrtlprnft> !
16:18 <wrtlprnft> 14s lag to the IRC server
--- Log closed Sun May 14 16:21:11 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 16:21:47 2006
16:21 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:21 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
16:21 <wrtlprnf1_> ...
16:21 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
16:22 <spidey> lol
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> can't even access the armabot logs
16:22 <wrtlprnf1_> or kick the other wrtlprnf1_ variations
16:23 <wrtlprnf1_> they're all in use, waiting to time out
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> wrtlprnft: DIE!
16:24 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:24 <wrtlprnf1_> lol
16:24 <spidey> lol
16:24 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
16:24 <spidey> wrtl you got wrtlprnft registered?
16:24 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:24 <wrtlprnft> and wrtlprnft_
16:25 <spidey> ok next time it's stuck like that do /msg nickserv ghost name password
16:25 <spidey> so /msg nickserv ghost wrtlprnft yourpassword
16:25 <spidey> it'll kill the nick
16:25 <wrtlprnft> yeah, thanks
16:25 <wrtlprnft> i thought you had to be registered with an alternate nick for that
16:26 <wrtlprnft> that linking buisness
16:27 <spidey> #ping
16:27 <armabot> pong
16:27 <spidey> k
16:27 <spidey> weird
16:27 <spidey> i got disconnected from the router
16:27 <spidey> but i'm still here
16:27 <wrtlprnft> i see that
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, no
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, if you have 1 registered nick
16:30 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:30 <spidey> and 1 nick you want to be registered
16:30 <spidey> instead of going threw all that crap
16:30 <spidey> you can link the unregistered nick
16:30 <spidey> with the registered nick
16:30 <spidey> ./msg nickserv help link
16:31 <wrtlprnft> hmm ok... well, having wrtlprnft_ registered doesn't hurt
16:31 <spidey> nope :p
16:31 <spidey> i don't have spidey registered :/
16:32 <spidey> awe
16:32 <spidey> -NickServ- The nickname [spidey] is already registered
16:33 <wrtlprnft> it is? not by you?
16:33 <spidey> no :/
16:33 <wrtlprnft> try spidey_arma :D
16:34 <spidey> hmm
16:34 -!- spidey is now known as spider
16:34 -!- spider is now known as Anthrax
16:34 <Anthrax> wtf
16:34 <wrtlprnft> ?
16:34 <Anthrax> all the names i use are registered
16:34 <Anthrax> :/
16:34 <wrtlprnft> McSpiddles?
16:34 -!- Anthrax is now known as McSpiddles
16:34 <McSpiddles> :)
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!-           : is identified to services
16:35 <wrtlprnft> 16:34 -!- End of WHOIS
16:35 <wrtlprnft> that's your whois :D
16:35 <McSpiddles> :D
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
16:37 <wrtlprnft_konver> yeah it works, i get the msgs
16:37 -!- wrtlprnft_konver [n=mathias@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:49 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: congratulations ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> spidey: You really did an excellent defense ;)
16:49 <joda_bot> ok I'm off to bed and going to try to cure my cold
16:49 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-035-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:49 <wrtlprnft> uh, don't congratulate me
16:50 <wrtlprnft> i didn't do anything
16:55 <McSpiddles> lol
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:09:50 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:10:57 2006
17:10 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:10 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
17:10 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 6 secs
--- Log closed Sun May 14 17:33:36 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 17:38:56 2006
17:38 -!- wrtlprnft_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:38 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
17:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 12 secs
17:39 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
17:39 -!- wrtlprnf1_ [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:43 <n54> :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/03/15/the-creation/
17:51 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:52 -!- guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #armagetron
17:54 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
17:55 <ghableska> hi
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hi there
17:55 <n54> hi :)
17:55 <ghableska> :)
17:55 <wrtlprnft> hope you guys had fun with the match :)
17:55 <ghableska> ?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> MBC vs 8T
17:55 <wrtlprnft> weren't you playing?
17:55 <ghableska> no...
17:55 <ghableska> was there an impostor?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, sorry
17:56 <ghableska> lol
17:56 <ghableska> np
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i'm confused
17:56 <ghableska> i'm aw
17:56 <ghableska> not 8th
17:56 <ghableska> :P
17:56 <wrtlprnft> i wasn't really playing
17:57 <wrtlprnft> my internet connection broke just in time
17:57 <ghableska> nice
17:57 <ghableska> yay!
17:57 <ghableska> i found out about the high scores page on the mbc site...
17:57 <wrtlprnft> it's still kinda messed up
17:57 <wrtlprnft> which one?
17:57 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/mbc.php ?
17:58 <ghableska> http://microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=tron2
17:58 <wrtlprnft> bah
17:58 <ghableska> lol
17:59 <wrtlprnft> mine's better (of course) ;)
17:59 <ghableska> so...
17:59 <ghableska> duh ;)
17:59 <wrtlprnft> heh. it manages clan tags and stuff
17:59 <ghableska> yeah
18:00 <wrtlprnft> and it's valid XHTML
18:08 <ghableska> brb
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> do I have any messages?
18:13 <n54> do you?
18:13 <wrtlprnft> had you, that is
18:13 <wrtlprnft> *did you have
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't
18:14 <n54> did do what had who?
18:15 <wrtlprnft> ?!
18:16 <n54> :)
18:16 <ghableska> back
18:16 <wrtlprnft> look at gCycle.cpp:2213
18:16 <n54> ghabba ghabba hey :)
18:16 <ghableska> ;)
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2238 class gJustChecking
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2241     static bool justChecking;
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2243     gJustChecking(){ justChecking = false; }
18:17 <wrtlprnft>    2244     ~gJustChecking(){ justChecking = true; }
18:17 <n54> just checking what?
18:22  * n54 is just checking ;P
18:28 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
19:04 <wrtlprnft> just checking whatever
19:04 <wrtlprnft> looks like some temporary code that wasn't removed
19:05 <wrtlprnft> or no, nerver mind
19:05 <wrtlprnft> it actually gets used
19:07 <n54> looks weird to be but I'm no c person :)
19:07 <n54> me*
19:07 <wrtlprnft> looks like it has something to do wit z-man's future wall code
19:07 <n54> watch out! ;P
19:08 <n54> *a wall zomm fromthe future into the past, narrowly missing n54 & wrtlprnft* :)
19:08 <n54> zooms*
19:08 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, 4-dimensional walls!
19:08 <n54> hyperwalls?
19:09 <wrtlprnft> spacetime- walls
19:09 <n54> oh
19:09 <wrtlprnft> oh, no, another one!
19:09 <n54> :)
--- Log closed Sun May 14 19:09:26 2006
--- Log opened Sun May 14 19:09:54 2006
19:09 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
19:09 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
19:09 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
19:09 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:10 <n54> hehe :D
19:13 <wrtlprnft> now that i merged all that code, let's see if it compiles :)
19:13 <n54> :)
19:14 <wrtlprnft> I can't wait for the day arma supports shooting without hacks...
19:14 <wrtlprnft> this sucks, the next time there's a greater modification of the zone code i'm doomed
19:15 <wrtlprnft> or that patch is... or it'll be some work getting it back to work
19:15 <n54> shooting?
19:16 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:16 <wrtlprnft> or actually laying mines
19:16 <wrtlprnft> lots of fun on my race server
19:16 <wrtlprnft> gets people to go their own ways and not just follow the guy that happens to be first
19:17 <n54> I like the purity of walls only myself so I'm not waiting ;)
19:17 <wrtlprnft> heh
19:17 <wrtlprnft> lotsa walls and deatzones on that server too
19:17 <wrtlprnft> *deathzones
19:18 <n54> to each their own and all that
19:18 <wrtlprnft> hehe
19:18 <wrtlprnft> at least you're not like silly
19:19 <n54> ?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> oh, he's like against anything
19:19 <n54> never met that person afaik
19:19 <n54> unless you mean oscilloscope?
19:19 <wrtlprnft> and he tells that to everyone, no matter if he wants to hear that or not
19:19 <wrtlprnft> yes i do
19:19 <wrtlprnft> silly fits better imho
19:19 <n54> ah ok well I barely know him either so :)
19:20 <n54> as long as it's all optional there's no problem imo
19:20 <wrtlprnft> exactly
19:20 <wrtlprnft> I really think he should jsut use 0.2.6 and stfu about newer versions
19:20 <n54> probably even a good thing
19:20 <wrtlprnft> oh, no :(
19:21 <wrtlprnft> compile failed
19:21 <n54> :S
19:22 <n54> I would like sprite-based walls and light effects, but I'm very patient; I don't expect something like that until like in ten years or something :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> lol
19:23 <wrtlprnft> that's more GLTron's buisness
19:23 <n54> and I can't "demand" anything until I can scratch my own back anyway :)
19:23 <wrtlprnft> O_o
19:24 <n54> as in the expression :)
19:24 <n54> I can actually scratch my own back in real life in case you misunderstood :D
19:24 <wrtlprnft> guess so
19:25 <n54> you know the idiom "I'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine"?
19:25 <n54> /s/and/if
19:26 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:26 <n54> ok :)
19:32 <wrtlprnft> yay gCycle.cpp compiled
19:32 <wrtlprnft> debugging is so much fun on that server
19:32 <wrtlprnft> compiling that file alone takes 45 seconds
19:36 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
19:37 <wrtlprnft> now i have to recompile everything since that stupid diff command merged some function into a private section, but it should have been public
20:08 <n54> huh now the main pc works again :| *enjoys music while I've got it*
20:08 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:09 <n54> I've only got sound on my main pc :) (until later at least)
20:09 <wrtlprnft> you too?
20:09 <n54> since I run off a cd on this one and the last one isn't installed properly yet
20:09 <wrtlprnft> i thought guru3 was the one with the sound probs
20:10 <n54> oh no this is entirely unconnected to guru3's problems
20:10 <n54> and this one would have sun if I did a proper install on it in all likelihood, either alsa or oss
20:10 <n54> sound*
20:13 <n54> all my entertainment is on the main pc so it's nice to have it up again :D
20:17 <n54> happy happy joy ooy XD
20:17 <n54> joy*
20:26 <wrtlprnft> what e-mail client would you recommend for a REALLY slow windows 98 box?
20:27 <wrtlprnft> I got thunderbird for my homestay mom, but it's really slow and messed up. I don't wanna set up outlook for obvious reasons...
20:28 <n54> hmm I would try thunderbird just to see but perhaps opera?
20:29 <n54> sure the machine isn't clogged up by spyware and the like?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> thunderbird is already on there, and it sucks
20:29 <n54> ah ok
20:29 <wrtlprnft> uh, the install is about 3 months old, but i have no idea what she
20:29 <wrtlprnft> 's doing
20:30 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to use opera and get it to look about like outlook/thunderbird
20:30 <n54> opera shouldn't be slow at least
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
20:31 <wrtlprnft> although it won't be blazing fast on there either
20:31 <n54> if it is and all she does is the web & mail combo then a small linux install like knoppix might be the trick
20:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah... i was thinking about that
20:32 <wrtlprnft> but she uses word and powerpoint :(
20:32 <n54> but try only the cd first so she can change her mind
20:32 <wrtlprnft> and well, openoffice doesn't run at all on that thing
20:32 <n54> ah ok, yeah then it becomes a bigger deal, she can't be forced then
20:32 <wrtlprnft> exactly
20:32 <wrtlprnft> if it was not for ms office i would switch her over and she would barely notice
20:34 <n54> I haven't tried office under wine myself so... because that would really be the only solution that doesn't involve tons of extra work on her part (I used to teach people office among other things, it's astonishing how hard it can be for a lot of people)
20:34 <wrtlprnft> let's try opera... all depends on whether i'll manage to import the thunderbird mails
20:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, bu office under wine... that's even slower
20:34 <n54> :)
20:35 <wrtlprnft> at least opera is nice and small...
20:37 <n54> :)
20:37  * n54 is so happy now that he has music - sickly, depressingly, candy-sweet happy ^_^
20:37 <wrtlprnft> :D
20:38 <n54> :D
20:41 <wrtlprnft> there we go
20:41 <wrtlprnft> importing... impressive :)
20:41 <n54> :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> uh, err
20:42 <wrtlprnft> that computer just started playing music when importing...
20:42 <wrtlprnft> *while
20:43 <wrtlprnft> Processing messages (-4%) (Tot:54)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> what does that negative sign do there?
20:44 <n54> no idea, preparing itself?
20:44 <wrtlprnft> erll, the messages are already appearing in the inbox in the background
20:44 <wrtlprnft> not it's -1%
20:44 <wrtlprnft> is that a step back or forward now?
20:45 <wrtlprnft> *now
20:47 <n54> this is from opera?
20:47 <n54> imo it would be forward (closer to positive) but that all depends I guess :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> well, that Total:x count is counting upwards, so I'm happy :)
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell mcspiddles "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:54 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey "wrtl's spoon fortress" is now online.
20:54 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
20:55 <wrtlprnft> can't people just stick ot one nick? :o
20:55 <n54> poor guy :)
20:55 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:56 <wrtlprnft> hmm, that server takes just one little configuration change and it'll be a server with shooting :)
20:56 <wrtlprnft> imagine shooting the defender :D
20:56 <wrtlprnft> but I guess i won't enable it or it's not a suitable practice server
21:02 <wrtlprnft> #seen a
21:02 <armabot> wrtlprnft: a was last seen in #armagetron 5 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 47 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <a> ?!
21:02 <wrtlprnft> ... and that guy is screwing up the arma stats
21:05 <n54> :)
21:07 <wrtlprnft> 617 mails... how many does she have?
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 619/-2*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (619 / -2) * 100 = -30,950
21:08 <wrtlprnft> so she has 30,950 mails it seems
21:08 <wrtlprnft> *-
21:10 <n54> :D
21:10 <wrtlprnft> woot woot
21:10 <wrtlprnft> it's at POSITIVE 3% now
21:10 <n54> lol
21:10 <wrtlprnft> #g 641/3*100
21:10 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (641 / 3) * 100 = 21,366.6667
21:10 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:10 <wrtlprnft> still lots of mails
21:10 <wrtlprnft> !
21:11 <wrtlprnft> 5%
21:11 <n54> yup
21:11 <wrtlprnft> going really rapid now
21:11 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11 <wrtlprnft> -5% now
21:11 <wrtlprnft> ...
21:12 <wrtlprnft> that thing is playing games with me
21:12 <n54> better not delete any! :D
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i hope it's not importing the same few mails over and over agaibn
21:12 <wrtlprnft> it almost looks like it
21:13 <n54> why would it do that though?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> i don't know.
21:13 <wrtlprnft> thinderbird's mail DB must be pretty messed up, or it wouldn't behave so weird
21:13 <wrtlprnft> and it crashed like twice per day
21:13 <n54> strange
21:14 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!!!
21:14 <wrtlprnft> it went from Trash to Sent
21:14 <n54> ?
21:15 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> that means it can't be stuck in an endless loop :)
21:15 <n54> hmm
21:15 <wrtlprnft> it displays what it is currently importing
21:15 <wrtlprnft> first it was inbox, then trash, and now sent
21:15 <n54> sounds reasonable to me so far, and there might be multiple inboxes etc. as well
21:16 <wrtlprnft> :(
21:16 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:16 <n54> I almost always segregate stuff that way
21:16 <wrtlprnft> maybe the - is indicating in what direction the percentage is growing?
21:16 <n54> no idea really
21:17 <wrtlprnft> like, it's an estimate, you don't know how big the mails and attachments are, and it is guessing?
21:17 <n54> btw hi GodTodd
21:17 <n54> yeah perhaps
21:17 <n54> ops once again I mistook a leaving for an entry :P
21:17 <wrtlprnft> so if it is on some huge attachment it is thinking there might be more of those
21:17 <wrtlprnft> cya
21:17 <n54> yeah
21:17 <wrtlprnft> and terefore it adjusts the percentage to something smaller
21:18 <n54> mm
21:20 -!- _GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
21:20 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:20 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:20 -!- _GodTodd is now known as GodTodd
21:21 <n54> hi there GodTodd
21:21 <GodTodd> hello
21:21  * wrtlprnft stopped saying hi to people since he got told off by z-man :D
21:22 <n54> for saying hello???
21:22 <wrtlprnft> for saying wb, to be exact
21:22  * n54 better watch it then :S
21:22 <wrtlprnft> he says it's useless and i shouldn't unless i had something else to say
21:23 <GodTodd> hmmm....half of human communication, if viewed objectively, is useless :D
21:23 <n54> well yeah that's kind of true, it depends a bit on the channel and such
21:23 <n54> only half? :o
21:23 <GodTodd> at least
21:23 <GodTodd> i was being conservative ;)
21:23 <n54> I thought it was a dead 100% :D
21:24 <n54> (not that it stops be gabbering lol)
21:24 <n54> me*
21:24 <GodTodd> nor me ;)
21:25 <n54> some fo the freenode channels are very strickt and with reason (people don't want their program calling ofr attention unless it's something "real")
21:25 <wrtlprnft> woo 1000 messages
21:25 <n54> :)
21:26 <wrtlprnft> well if you just entered it doesn't really matter
21:26 <n54> yeah
21:26 <wrtlprnft> you just opened the damn thing, so you should stick around for a few seconds
21:26 <n54> could be automagic :)
21:26 <n54> startup etc.
21:26 <wrtlprnft> mine is
21:26 <wrtlprnft> but it doesn't call for attention until i log in
21:27 <wrtlprnft> so it runs in some detached screen session and doesn't bother me
21:28 <n54> yeah it's sort of the same here - although gaim in it's infinite betaness doesn't stop scrolling when it doesn't have focus (yet, might be in the works)
21:28 <wrtlprnft> bah gaim
21:28 <n54> :)
21:29 <wrtlprnft> what?
21:29 <n54> what what?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> now it's back to inbox again?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> oh no...
21:29 <n54> probably another one, I'm not surprised if she & others have many
21:29 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:30 <n54> because lumping all kinds of different types of mail into the same inbox is just a mess
21:30 <wrtlprnft> opera just puts all into one DB
21:30 <n54> even if you ahve inboxes for different mail-accounts?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> uh, no
21:31 <n54> ok :)
21:31 <wrtlprnft> but she has just one
21:31 <wrtlprnft> oh sh***
21:31 <n54> how would you know?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> i can forget the whole thing...
21:31 <n54> ?
21:31 <wrtlprnft> opera can't make HTML mails
21:32 <wrtlprnft> *send
21:32 <n54> it can't?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> no, and it's not a bad thing
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but she wants those...
21:32 <n54> I agree but it still surprises me, are you sure?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> yes i am
21:32  * n54 uses only pure text
21:32 <wrtlprnft> it's an ongoing discussion in tons of forums
21:32 <n54> ok
21:33 <wrtlprnft> but opera doesn't support them
21:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll let that import run anyways, but i fear opera isn't an option...
21:35 <wrtlprnft> any other clients?
21:36 <n54> hmm
21:36 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090A95C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <n54> must be something more exotic then I guess
21:36 <wrtlprnft> exotic == doesn't feel like thunderbird i fear
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylpheed
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that looks kinda promising...
21:39 <wrtlprnft> but i don't see that it supports html mails at all...
21:39 <n54> hmm yes
21:40 <n54> perhaps the claws addon thingy
21:40 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is, all windows mail clients with html support need an html engine...
21:40 <wrtlprnft> that's IE, ff and opera
21:40 <n54> this one had something called dillo?
21:40 <wrtlprnft> dillo... well...
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it's nice and fast, but has no CSS support
21:42 <wrtlprnft> and it can't send HTML mails, anyways
21:42 <wrtlprnft> which puts it onto the same level as opera
21:45 <n54> there's some at sf but not sure if any really meet your needs http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=mail+client&type_of_search=soft
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients#Features
21:46 <wrtlprnft> most of them are commercial or not available for windows or mozilla- related or IE- related
21:46 <wrtlprnft> commercial = pay software
21:46 <wrtlprnft> she won't pay for an email client
21:46 <Lucifer_arma> WELCOME BACK DUDEZ!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?!
21:47  * Lucifer_arma looks for his brush
21:47 <n54> yikes again lol
21:47 <wrtlprnft> uh, Lucifer_arma seems to be shocked by his vacation
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sorry, I was scrolling up to see what I missed
21:47 <wrtlprnft> :D
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> and then the ODD kicked in....
21:47 <n54> ODD?
21:47 <wrtlprnft> !!!!!
21:47 <wrtlprnft> opera is finished
21:47 <Lucifer_arma> Oppositional Defiant Disorder
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> it means I'm a punk :)
21:48 <n54> as long as you don't make me feel like Clint Eastwood I gues hat's ok :)
21:48  * Lucifer_arma notes that it's self-diagnosed purely for fun
21:48 <Lucifer_arma> Go ahead, punk.  Make my day.
21:48 <n54> hehe
21:48 <n54> I'm sorry Dave, I cannot let you do that
21:48 <n54> XD
21:49  * n54 has been waiting for a chance to say that lol
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> punk
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> heh
21:49 <n54> heh :)
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> found my brush
21:49 <n54> toilet or teeth?
21:49 <Lucifer_arma> hair brush, man
21:49 <n54> lol
21:51 <Lucifer_arma> oh good.  with my hair brushed, I feel human
21:52 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> bye deja_vu
21:52 <Lucifer_arma> is deja_vu_ a bot?
21:53 <n54> nope
21:53 <n54> from switzerland iirc
21:53 <n54> where it's also about 0456 now, like here
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, yeah, I know.  just starting trouble....
21:54 <n54> :)
21:54 <Lucifer_arma> last time I suggested he was a bot, he came in here and chewed me a new asshole
21:54 <n54> really? lol
21:56 <Lucifer_arma> so, should I bring in my event manager from my aborted cpp version of acme, or should I take wrtlprnft's cockpit callback system and use it to construct an all-new event manager?
21:56 <n54> go all new
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> I was looking at pui, thinking about what we needed to do just to get to where we can try it, and figured out that the input system needs serious work
21:57 <Lucifer_arma> ala event manager type of work.  Figured if I threw in an event manager to handle input with the current code, others would start filling it out to handle game events
21:57 <n54> yeah it should be fairly well thought-out and specific, that way it'll probably make more sense in the long run
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, this'll be the third or fourth event manager I've tackled.  I won't claim to be an expert, but I think I know what it definitely needs, and what I need to think about working on it :)
21:58 <n54> :)
21:58 <Lucifer_arma> it's another one of those things where if I can just get it building and working with a few objects, others around here can extend it quite well
21:59 <Lucifer_arma> so I figured I'd write it up and see if I can pull the GUI out into its own space without having to serious refactor it
22:00 <n54> god my main machine sounds like a vacuum-cleaner *shuts it off and prays it will turn on again next time too*
22:00 <n54> hmm sounds good
22:06 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:06 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:06 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:06 <wrtlprnft> always funny, that smiley is
22:06 <n54> :) <- that one?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> you could translate it to cya wrtlprnft *phew! he's gone! finally!*
22:07 <n54> lol no I don't use smiles that way
22:07 <wrtlprnft> :)
22:07 <n54> :)
22:13 <n54> shit it's monday... I thought it would be sunday :|
--- Log closed Sun May 14 22:22:53 2006
--- Log opened Mon May 15 07:13:22 2006
07:13 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@S0106000f6687e817.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
07:13 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
07:13 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
07:22 <McSpiddles> :)
07:22 -!- McSpiddles is now known as McSpiddles|zZzZz
07:40 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has quit ["Pong timeout"]
07:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&hidepatrolled=0&limit=100
07:52 <wrtlprnft> bot
07:54 <guru3> WELL
07:54 <guru3> *well
07:54 <guru3> very few things in my life have gone worse
07:55 <z-man> you mean your upgrade?
07:55 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
07:55 <guru3> my exam
07:56 <z-man> whoooops
07:56 <guru3> who gives a crap about the upgrade
07:56 <guru3> that may piss me off but i can deal with software problems
07:56 <z-man> But you can't possibly have the results already, can you?
07:56 <guru3> no
07:56 <guru3> but you can have a feel
07:57 <guru3> and leaving answers blank
07:57 <guru3> never makes you feel good about an exam
07:57 <z-man> Yeah, but unless you turned in a blank sheet, you can't be sure
07:57 <guru3> that's very optimistic
07:57 <guru3> but i just feel bad now :/
07:58 <z-man> Our exams here are always designed so than absolutely noone has enough time to answer all the questions
07:58 <guru3> and my arms hurt for some weird reason
07:58 <guru3> probably playing too much beethoven on the piano :/
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I threw together a test drupal site with the wiki component, unfortunately it has a pretty nasty bug
08:19 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BA792.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
09:38 <z-man> Tomatoes make poor office plants. They need too much water. Mine looked almost dead already twice ;( Luckily, it is also quick to recover.
09:49 <guru3> you keep a tomatoe plant in your office?
10:04 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:24 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
10:26 <z-man> guru3: yes, a decorational one. I don't think you'll be able to eat the fruit, I don't even sure whether it'll bear one.
10:27 <z-man> The funny thing is, it came out of a can :)
10:27 <z-man> Like a plant for dummies. I just had to open the can and add water.
10:27 <z-man> Lots of water, it seems.
10:31 <guru3> cool
10:32 <n54> on the font thing; requiring more glyphs is like requiring multi-platform support for code; in the end it contributes more to the quality of "itself" than one would think
10:33 <z-man> I don't think that if I did a font, making me draw all those Chinese things would improve the quality of my work :)
10:34 <z-man> With code, the goal is to support many platforms/compilers with the same lines of code. You don't write the code anew for every platform. I don't think the font/code comparison holds.
10:35 <n54> I agree that would be excessive (but it still would actually, just as long as you speak and write chinese well enough not to make mistakes) :)
10:35 <n54> yes and the same is actually true for real font design, you want the idea of your font to be applicable to as much as possible
10:36 <z-man> Chinese and Japanese and Hebrew and whatnot else
10:37 <z-man> Hmm, you've got a point with your style argument.
10:38 <n54> yes I know ;) but yeah I think we actually agree because I'm not going to make 60000+ chinese glyphs for any font I make XD
10:38 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:40 <n54> one solution could be to have a base font with "everything" and then specific fonts replacing a subset but I'm not sure how the program would check for missing characters in the "2nd layer font"
10:40 <z-man> I think the font knows which glyphs are set and which are empty
10:41 <n54> ok
10:41 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
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10:56 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #Armagetron
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but to be honest, unless someone volunteers to make a chinese/hebrew/arabic font, we're just going to find one and stick it in there
11:26  * Lucifer_arma notes that he wanted wrtlprnft to do the font because wrtlprnft cares about all the accents and stuff, which is reasonable to require in the base font
11:26  * Lucifer_arma wouldn't have cared about them, they don't show up in english.
11:30 <n54> fonts might very well turn out as collaborative efforts in the end, which is probably ideal in some ways
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, well, the source file we're using is in cvs.  :)
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Also, wrtlprnft did the last big font revision and was already well familiar with it.
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> Speaking of whiches...
11:34 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft The period in the font is off-centered.  It's all the way to the left, so decimal numbers look weird.  1.0 and stuff.  The period is right after the 1, and then a big gap to the 0.
11:34 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but even if he hadn't jumped on it so quick and I kept plugging away, I would've stopped when I had all the regular english characters and proceeded to take bitching over not putting any of the rest in :)
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> but I can't even promise doing punctuation, heh
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, it would be nice if people volunteered to make fonts for other languages that match the style in this one, or to add the characters to this font or whatever.
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> but for the same reason I wouldn't do all those extra characters, I just don't see wrtlprnft doing a hebrew font for us, or arabic, or chinese, whatever.
11:42 <n54> yes of course
11:44 <Luke-Jr> z-man: ping
11:44 <z-man> Three days offline and the first thing you say is ping?
11:44 <Luke-Jr> yes
11:44 <z-man> :)
11:44 <Luke-Jr> how do I use CVS ACLs to block any CVS commits?
11:45 <Luke-Jr> preferably with a message referring to a forum post
11:45 <z-man> That would be a bad idea. How would you reenable commits when you're done?
11:46 <Luke-Jr> maybe wouldn't, but I presume the ACL can be deleted...
11:46 <z-man> That would also be a commit.
11:47 <Luke-Jr> ok, so don't apply the ACL to the CVSROOT module (presuming that's where the commit is)
11:47 <Luke-Jr> or better yet, just to the relevant module ;)
11:47 <z-man> Which is the relevant module?
11:47 <Luke-Jr> armagetron[ad]
11:48 <z-man> only that? What do you have in mind?
11:48 <Luke-Jr> which brings up the question of whether I should import the other stuff at the same time
11:48 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion
11:48 <z-man> Umm, not before is out, please, or at least give me a chance to merge the changes back to b0_2_8
11:49 <Luke-Jr> err-- ok
11:49 <z-man> I'd say everything should be converted at once, wouldn't be much fun having to use armagetronad from SVN and armagetronad_release from CVS
11:49 <z-man> err, _build
11:49 <Luke-Jr> true
11:50 <Luke-Jr> though I was thinking more of griddraw, macosx_recorder, and such
11:50 <z-man> Lucifer_arma requested that acme shouldn't be converted
11:51  * Luke-Jr notes
11:51 <z-man> There definitely should be an announcement about this on the forum prior to the action
11:51 <z-man> so people have a chance to check in their current working copies
11:51 <Luke-Jr> ok, "planned for immediately after release"?
11:51 <z-man> For example
11:52 <z-man> And I think the release will be the weekend after the next, if nothing bad happens (again)
11:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- drupal wiki test place
11:53 <z-man> If it should be done earlier, as I said, I can easily merge back the changes from the release branch as it stands now, and if anything new is committed afterwards, manually merge it over to SVN
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's neat.  It looks like you can insert any node into the wiki
11:57 <z-man> waiting for the confirmation email... Do I get access to the test project then?
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> no email coming
12:00 <Lucifer_arma> just login?
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I made both users passwords "flowers"
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> er, making it right now
12:02  * Lucifer_arma still needs to fix outgoing mail on that machine
12:03  * Luke-Jr logs in as z-man =p j/k
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> TEST SITE :)
12:04 <z-man> waaa
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> very rough around the edges, it can take awhile to setup a new drupal installation
12:04 <Luke-Jr> maybe we should just write a CMS using Gallery2's API
12:05 <Luke-Jr> ;)
12:05 <z-man> Is that one of your .. ideas again?
12:05 <Luke-Jr> nah
12:05  * Lucifer_arma files that in his "universe revolves around Luke-Jr" file :)
12:05 <Luke-Jr> tho G2 is quite modular, and if one were to plan to write a full CMS, it would make a nice start
12:06 <Lucifer_arma> indeed.  I should point out that so far Drupal at least has the appearance of being the ideal CMS, by my own standards anyway
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> the wiki module needs templates.  I used those extensively on the KNights of Ni pages, it would be nice to have them.
12:09 <z-man> Waaaa! The bug tracker doesn't support setting bookmarks on specific searches :(
12:09 <Lucifer_arma> um, it does?
12:10 <z-man> Not for me
12:10 <z-man> They all end up as http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/add/project_issue
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> down at the bottom, under the tracker listing, next to the rss feed icon
12:10 <Luke-Jr> pfft
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> there's a # sign
12:10 <Luke-Jr> I think he means *normal* bookmarks
12:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/issues&projects=2&states=1,2,8,13,14&categories=bug
12:11 <Luke-Jr> tho normal bookmarks suck in Konqueror, so I don't use them
12:11 <z-man> Ah, it only appears if the search doesn't turn up empty
12:11 <Lucifer_arma> it's not obvious, it's definitely worth hacking to find that link and put something more useful in the caption :)
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, just made you an Administrator
12:16 <Lucifer_arma> haha
12:16 <z-man> Yeah, well, your ticked was auto-assigned to me
12:17 <z-man> can we get a version field in the tracker?
12:17 -!- hang3r [n=hang3r_3@124-168-233-88.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, hm.  I wonder how to do that...
12:23 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
12:23 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I think I figured it out.  Somehow extensions is a version, though.  Hmmm......
12:24 <Lucifer_arma> so, version would have to be associated together pretty much.  Makes sense, Drupal modules are versioned the same as Drupal itself so you know which version it's compatible with
12:27 <Lucifer_arma> so we have to maintain a list of versions for projects to use, and then when a project is created, or edited, the person doing so picks which versions can be used from what's available in drupal's taxonomy module
12:28 <z-man> Does what you're saying translate to "versions are a pain" for a normal bloke?
12:29 <Lucifer_arma> it means we have two choices
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 1.  Tell people to categorize version with the armagetronad version
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> 2.  Create a whole slew of versions from 0.1.0 -> 3.9.9
12:30 <Lucifer_arma> IN the case of 2, project admins would have to pick what versions are available from the list
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> There may be a module to allow us to give users limited editing/creation access to the taxonomy module
12:31 <Lucifer_arma> also, a lot of these fancy names for Drupal stuff has to get renamed to some extent in the links created.  Regular users shouldn't have to worry about "node" and "taxonomy" and crap :)
12:32 <z-man> Ah, you're thinking ahead :) You wanted to use the tracker for moviepacks and mods.
12:32 <Lucifer_arma> yes, exactly :)
12:32 <z-man> Yeah, I had to look up taxonomy :)
12:34 <z-man> Difficult choice, code modding versions should definitiely be locked to the main AA version
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> people who submit mods would still be able to do that, so we'd have to make sure AA versions are represented in the list
12:34 <Lucifer_arma> and we'll pick from the list ourselves, of course...
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> Go to the project page and click "Edit"
12:35 <z-man> but they'll need their own further revisions; while we're working on 2.0, HangGliderFight may want to give out a sequel to 1.4.
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/2/edit
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, my point.  The top box on that edit page is the versions available for this project
12:35 <Lucifer_arma> release a new version?  Just select another one in the list
12:36 <Lucifer_arma> if people ask for a version number that's not there, we just add it.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> if there's a way to enforce that sort of thing, it'll be awhile before we discover it.  Like any particularly advanced piece of software, the UI for Drupal isn't easy to figure out, but once you figure it out, it's usually easy to work wth
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> and then we have to piece together the right magical combination of modules, if it exists.
12:38 <Lucifer_arma> It's kinda like every module is a piece of plutonium, and once you install enough, er, um.  Maybe I shouldn't have it on my server....
12:40  * Luke-Jr reminds Lucifer_arma that versions are not decimal numbers
12:40 <z-man> Yeah, I agree that the UI is very confusing
12:42 <z-man> Where did my project go?
12:42  * Lucifer_arma invites Luke-Jr to manually enter all possible version numbers for himself
12:42 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=taxonomy/term/2
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> you created a new project?
12:42 <Lucifer_arma> umm, I see it
12:42 <z-man> Err, yes
12:43 <z-man> But I only get to it in "projects"/"my projects"
12:43 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: did it for Mantis...
12:43 <z-man> All possible numbers?
12:43 <z-man> Even the one that is one number larger that the largest number you can imagine?
12:44 <Luke-Jr> all versions
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> all versions?  Did you do 99.9999123124.235241234123.a?
12:44 <z-man> That's not what Lucifer_arma invited you for :)
12:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> since there are plenty of people who not only thing version numbers *are* decimal numbers, but know they won't go past 9 in any column anyway, I don't think that'll be a problem
12:45 <Lucifer_arma> but if someone wants to burn time by putting in superfluous version numbers nobody will ever use, well, it won't be me.
12:45 <z-man> Shouldn't both projects be listed here? http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
12:46 <Lucifer_arma> um, I don't know
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah....
12:47 <Luke-Jr> no, ythat deosn't exist evne in concpet
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> the Drupal site lists them, apparently
12:47 <z-man> It's listed here: http://armatest.davefancella.com/ with everything else, tracker items and projects alike
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr drunk?
12:47 <Luke-Jr> CPU maxed out and such
12:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, there's settings to change defaults for stuff.  :)  I didn't fool with those, not important for this test.  Will be important for another test later, though.
12:48 <z-man> Yes
12:48 <Luke-Jr> non-existent versions need not be listed
12:49 <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb. Let digits go beyond 9 where it makes sense
12:51 <n54> does normal signup work yet or?
12:52 <z-man> Yeah, we should force people to to a calculus test before they're allowed to play
12:52 <z-man> And, more importantly, a grammar test
12:52 <Luke-Jr> z-man: you don't need to do version math to play, just to talk about versions
12:53 <Luke-Jr> unless they're idiotic enough to uncheck "Hide Old" and see 0.2.9 after 0.2.10 is out
12:53 <Luke-Jr> and not notice it's coloured as old
12:53  * z-man was just expanding on this: <Luke-Jr> and playing games with ignorant people is dumb.
12:54 <Luke-Jr> by "playing games" I mean "accomidate their errors"'
12:54 <z-man> ah
12:54 <Luke-Jr> not the actual video game =p
12:56 <z-man> Anyway, we can handle 0.2.10 right ourselves on aabeta, but still, in FTP browsers and others it'll be sorted in before 0.2.9.
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> wel, when I run sort on a lsit of files in my directory, it tells me that 0.1.1 is followed by 0.1.10, which is in turn followed by 0.1.11
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> which, of course, isn't right.  :)
12:56 <z-man> :)
12:56 <Lucifer_arma> same thing in an ORDER BY clause
12:56 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: indeed, directory listing isn't too smart sometimes
12:56 <Luke-Jr> many people complain over that
12:56 <Luke-Jr> try 'ls --sort=version/'
12:57  * z-man guesses Luke's next suggestion is to fix file browsers
12:57 <Luke-Jr> w/o the slash
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> actually, that's right, for the same reason that aardvark is followed by abrdvark
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> I learned that in the 2nd grade
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> can't change the rules of sorting just because you dont' like them
12:57 <Luke-Jr> that's a character comparison, not a numeric comparison
12:57 <n54> that's why I use 01 for my own purposes at least
12:57 <Luke-Jr> 10 > 2
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> versions aren't numbers, though
12:57 <Luke-Jr> versions are numbers, that's just it
12:57 <Luke-Jr> they're a sequence of numbers
12:57 <Lucifer_arma> because a number can be expressed as a decimal when it's value or an approximation is known
12:58 <n54> but anyway Lucifer; is normal signup working at your drupal page?
12:58 <Luke-Jr> ok, so they're a sequence of *integers*--- which are numbers
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> no, well, outgoing email isn't
12:58 <n54> ah ok
12:58 <Lucifer_arma> so if you signed up, I'll make you a password and you can play with it :)
12:58 <n54> not important, just curious :)
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
12:59 <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> gotta leave in about half an hour to take my driving test
13:00 <Luke-Jr> should?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> *should not
13:00 <Luke-Jr> heh
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> damn laptop keyboard
13:00 <n54> ok :)
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, put credit card numbers (valid ones) in wiki pages
13:00 <z-man> Why, where do you store them?
13:00 <Lucifer_arma> make sure you include the 3digit number on the back of the card
13:01 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: experation dates too?
13:01 <Luke-Jr> expiration*
13:01 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, everything an unscrupulous type (which I am not) would need to spend them
13:01 <z-man> off to go home
13:02 <Lucifer_arma> ko
13:05 <n54> so since this has a wiki eventually it might replace the armagetron media-wiki too?
13:05 <n54> or wiki-media that is... :P
13:05  * n54 is now in a state of confusion lol
13:06 <Luke-Jr> MediaWiki
13:07 <n54> no dash? I was sure there were supposed to be a dash somewhere... ah well :D
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> in a WikiWord?  are you nuts?
13:10 <n54> wingnuts - yes
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> the idea is to have it ultimately replace forums, main site, wiki, and tracker
13:10 <n54> I have solved your bug btw
13:10 <n54> nice
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> but we're only looking at it right now for wiki, main site, and tracker for third party stuff
13:10 <Lucifer_arma> it might even replace resource repository if done well
13:11 <n54> mmm me like
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> so you upload a project that's a resource to the site, and it's automatically in the resource repository
13:11 <Lucifer_arma> might be better to use backend scripts that scan uploaded releases and organize them our way, though
13:12 <Lucifer_arma> you know, instead of trying to get Drupal to do it for us
13:12 <n54> yes perhaps
13:13 <Lucifer_arma> fixed my bug?  which one?
13:13 <n54> toilet paper one
13:15 <n54> anyway things always take time to get accustomed to
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> aha
13:17 <n54> :)
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I also made the damn projects appear
13:17 <Lucifer_arma> I think they didn't appear because they didn't have releases or something like that
13:18 <n54> appear where?
13:18 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
13:19 <n54> aha
13:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, going to take my driving test now
13:19 <n54> driving test?
13:19 <n54> like for a drivers license?
13:21 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
13:22 <n54> have fun :)
13:24 <guru3> gah
13:24 <guru3> that bar at the bottom
13:24 <guru3> is annoying
13:25 <n54> mm yeah I guess, probably easy to change
13:25 <n54> and hi of course :)
13:25 <guru3> hey n54 
13:25 <guru3> had another exam
13:25 <guru3> went badly :/
13:26 <n54> :S maths?
13:26 <guru3> yeah
13:26 <guru3> the option
13:26 <guru3> series & differential equations
13:26 <guru3> in other news my workstation should soon be working again
13:27 <guru3> just have to finnish emerging gnome and then deal with any other kinks that turn up
13:27 <n54> cool, my main pc seems to have become sane again as well
13:27 <guru3> grand
13:27 <n54> yeah
13:28 <n54> was strange using it again after using this machine (knoppix), I'e got BlackBox on the main one and it took a few minutes to get back to that feel compared to kde :)
13:29 <guru3> heh
13:30 <guru3> i'll be happy to have my workstation back
13:30 <guru3> single computer computing is so boring sometimes
13:30 <n54> now I've got to find/buy some small "split" cables for installing more fans in it
13:30 <guru3> and requires more concentration to remember the windows that are open
13:32 <n54> well I have less creens/keyboards than computers so this one is probably not going to be in use as it is now when I get back to learning openbsd on the third one
13:33  * n54 hasn't found any kwm switch he likes
13:33 <guru3> cool cool
13:33 <guru3> i've got a 4 port kvm from tripplite
13:33 <guru3> which i don't use
13:33 <guru3> as i've better mastered linux & ssh
13:33 <n54> bsd has kwm issues anyway so :)
13:33 <guru3> hah
13:34 <n54> but when I'm done getting the obsd one up to par I'll install something called synergy on that one and use over ssh
13:34 <n54> by that time synergy probably supports screens to :D
13:34 <guru3> cool
13:35 <n54> yeah it would be very nice, all three computers could share both screens and the rest
13:35 <n54> ultimately, hopefully
13:35 <guru3> cool
13:37 <guru3> i just did something horrible
13:37 <guru3> i installed a media wiki :(
13:38 <n54> hehe yes
13:40 <guru3> but alas
13:40 <guru3> must make my logo :D
13:40 <n54> :D
13:49 <guru3> garr
13:49 <guru3> really wish i had the workstation now
13:49 <guru3> so i could see what the wiki looks like :/
13:54 <n54> double loop? I mean if you want to access it as a client just to check?
13:55 <n54> if you have somewhere else to loop through that is
14:00 <guru3> meh
14:00 <guru3> the point is
14:00 <guru3> i can't figure out how to edit the footer or the side menu
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14:05 <guru3> gah
14:05 <guru3> this is suprisingly bad
14:08 <n54> yeah it's quite a spagettiball, might be taste but well
14:08 <n54> tasty*
14:09  * n54 suddenly wants to eat spagetti with meatballs lol
14:10 <guru3> heh
14:10 <guru3> gar
14:11 <guru3> the main page menubar is unchanged
14:11 <guru3> but it's changed everywhere else
14:11 <guru3> wtf is up with that
14:11 <n54> no idea
14:11 <n54> what are you using the wiki for?
14:12 <guru3> wanted a way to keep some data i'd be collecting organized
14:12 <guru3> and for fun
14:12 <n54> :) perhaps drupal will be more fun?
14:13 <guru3> it's like it's cacheing pages
14:13 <guru3> i bet that's it
14:13 <guru3> the stupid ****** thing
14:14 <n54> could well be
14:14 <guru3> hmm
14:14 <guru3> i bet it had a header for it
14:14 <guru3> forced refresh fixed that
14:24 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
14:35 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, mediawiki caches pages
14:36 <Lucifer_arma> you have to edit the page to get it to refresh the cache
14:38  * Lucifer_arma passed his stupid driving test
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> I really need to start renewing my license before it expires, it's such a pain to do after it expires
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions
14:41 <z-man-home> Umm, HangGliderFight doesn't appear in the "browse by date" tab
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't
14:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has to do with there not being any releases created for it
14:42 <z-man-home> That reminds me, I tried to create one and failed. Do I need to upload a real file?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> ummmmm
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> maybe?
14:43 <Lucifer_arma> The one I created for Test Project I didn't upload a file
14:44 <Lucifer_arma> the one I just tried to create for HangGliderFight didn't succeed, something about a duplicate key in the log
14:44 <z-man-home> I ended up here afterwards: http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/8/release
14:44 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
14:44 <Self_Destructo> hi
14:44 <z-man-home> Oh, do I have to enter one of the registered versions?
14:44 <z-man-home> I tried
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> aha, I figured it out
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> yes, you should upload a file now
14:45 <Lucifer_arma> stupid table, looks like it has a "NULL" with unique requirements for the filename, and since I already created one without a file...
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filectime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 348.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filemtime(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 349.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: md5_file(): Unable to open file in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 350.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <z-man-home> warning: filesize(): Stat failed for /Big/home/manuel/version (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /www/home/modules/project/release.inc on line 278.
14:47 <guru3> how do you change font color in media wiki?
14:48 <z-man-home> err, the file does exist for me, of course, looks like drupal is looking for it on the server
14:49 <z-man-home> And quotes-4.7.0.tar.gz is the release file of HangGliderFight Bachus
14:49 <Lucifer_arma> right, problem is, it doesn't work.  The file didn't upload for some reason.
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> Tank: you'll need to look into themes
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> they're pretty straightforward when you get into it, but check MediaWiki site for info on it, also look in the themes directory
14:50 <guru3> if i wasn't on this window i'd never see that Lucifer_arma 
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> I copied (guru3) an existing theme and just modified it to suit
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3:
14:50 <guru3> but i mean font in just one line
14:50 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: guru3 guru3 
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhh
14:51 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
14:51 <Lucifer_arma> ok, better check the mediawiki user's guide :)
14:51 <wrtl_web_broken> well...
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> looks like i can type, but not read anything
14:52 <Lucifer_arma> what?
14:52 <wrtl_web_broken> Lucifer_arma: That dot thing was on purpose...
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: it also looks like I can't delete releases if they get borked
14:53 <z-man-home> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=project/Extensions/date , look at the last modification date of my project.
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> haha
14:53 <Lucifer_arma> wow, a third party extension that predates the game.  Amazing
14:53 <wrtl_web_broken> know hos some people prefer to put two spaces after a dot? I thought by putting the dot to the left side of its "box" one could just use one
14:53 <z-man-home> Not to mention I started it before I was born
14:53 <guru3> is there anyway to have it not eat the last 1/3 of the screen?
14:54 <wrtl_web_broken> but you're right about numbers, I'll change it
14:54  * wrtl_web_broken has to wait for the chatlogs on his server to update before he can see what someone else wrote (and if what i'm writing here actually goes through...)
14:55 <z-man-home> Gee, half the people here are logged in twice
14:56 <wrtl_web_broken> hmm, looks like it does
14:58 -!- wrtl_web_broken [n=55e92ad5@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
14:59 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
14:59  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he could get armabot to login a second time too
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> well, this Project module is nice, and looks really good on the Drupal site.  But it really feels like beta software to me.
15:00 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has left #armagetron ["I need to reboot my router"]
15:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which means, if we can figure out how to make it work right, and people don't break it, we should be fine :)
15:00 -!- LuciEatsPeople [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]
15:02 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
15:09  * n54 wonders why everyone is silent
15:10  * Lucifer_arma wonders if anyone's willing to throw together a tron-like theme for drupal
15:11 <n54> lacka perhaps?
15:11 <n54> or locutus if he's still around?
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> nonono, nothing crazy, just grab the theme from the main site and turn it into a drupal theme
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> or the one from the wiki, or whatever
15:13 <Lucifer_arma> for a test website.  If someone wanted to create a new theme from scratch when/if we implemented the test website, fine.
15:14 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, just something that says "this is essentially what we can do"
15:16  * z-man-home is not good at themes
15:16 <n54> might be a lot of work either way, anyway I'm not familiar with drupal themes so since I'm messing about with cbos at the moment I'm not volunteering ;)
15:18 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["restart"]
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> "If you're not with us, you're against us"
15:18 <Lucifer_arma> man, that annoys me
15:19 <n54> I can understand that, even agree, it's something that should be said sparingly
15:19 <Lackadaisical> i think a three column layout wouldnt hurt
15:20 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has joined #armagetron
15:20 <n54> for the drupal stuff Lackadaisical?
15:21 <Lackadaisical> yeah
15:22 <Lackadaisical> drupal already 'thinks' in three columns right?
15:22 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and also a header and footer and some other things
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> but it's not really married to it, you could put the "right" column underneath the "left" column on the left, and you'd have a column on the left with two sections
15:23 <Lucifer_arma> the real question is, how much work do you want to put into it for a test?  :)  A little work has to be done, but you could safely wait until we said we'll use it or not before diving in
15:24  * n54 is done with cbos -- "that went quick" in dry Gauntlet voice
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> also wrtlprnft, who's having problems saying stuff here just pmed me to volunteer if nobody else wants to do it
15:24 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I'm going to convert the wiki theme right now because it'll be fun.  :)  Drupal supports multiple themes, and even different themes for different sections, so there's no reason we can't keep all the old themes in some form
15:25 <Self_Destructo> wow, the most people in this channel I have seen in a long time
15:25 <Lackadaisical> well just converting one theme to another isnt that hard probably
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> and then give users a chance to pick the themes they really want
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> well, luckily Drupal supports several theme engines
15:25 <Lackadaisical> did you see there are two different themeengines?
15:25 <Lackadaisical> ok
15:25 <Lucifer_arma> there's one that's mambo-like, and one that's deprecated but works out of one file
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> and some others, and some third party engines.  If you know smarty, I'll be happy to throw in the smarty theme engine
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> we can even get totally obsessive about it and write our own theme engine.  :)  any takes for that?
15:26 <Lucifer_arma> *takers
15:26 <n54> lol
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> ideally we should stick to the php theme engine, I forgot what it's called already.  It's the new default theme engine
15:27 <Lucifer_arma> that's just because some stupid modules depend on it.  The only one I know for sure is the audio one, though, which we're probably not going to need
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> but I think I've seen others say "use this theme engine", which kinda breaks the rule about separating content and presentation
15:28 <n54> the php one?
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> phptemplate
15:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's the only one that ships with Drupal 4.7, apparently
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> there's some add-on engines I can install though
15:29 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/Theme+engines
15:34 <Lackadaisical> ayaan hirsi ali has taken her dutch nationality illegally :O
15:34 <n54> :o really? damn... I like her
15:35 <n54> we all need more people like her
15:35 <Lackadaisical> she lied about her name and birthdate
15:35 <n54> but... since she's a meber of parliament, what will happen?
15:35 <n54> member*
15:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
15:38 <n54> hehe lucifer :)
15:39 <n54> with those colors I really really see guru3's point about the footer though, it should go
15:42 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p5087092E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:48 <Lackadaisical> well her party actually knew that she lied but still let her in the parliament
15:49 <n54> huh
16:00 <n54> on wikipedia they say she's likely to move to the states
16:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: so you want me to center that dot or put it a bit more towards the centre?
16:02 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda prefer it centered completely, but if it was intentional, I guess I can live with it :)
16:03 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was a genuine mistake
16:03 <wrtlprnft> no, it was a bad idea
16:03 <wrtlprnft> so I'll center it
16:05 <n54> it's a "monospace problem" :)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> yes
16:06 <wrtlprnft> done
16:07 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i read your resource stuff, it looks fine.
16:07 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:08 <wrtlprnft> uh, and would you mind giving me sysop rights on the wiki so i can delete spam?
16:08 <wrtlprnft> there are spam pages there for about 12 hours now
16:08 <wrtlprnft> and noone can delete them but you and nemo
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, let's see if I can remember how
16:09 <wrtlprnft> lol
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> ok, done
16:09 <Lucifer_arma> there was a special page for it :)
16:11  * joda_bot wonders if ArmagetronAd should really require python for just sorting resources ... 
16:11 <joda_bot> Would it not be easier to just put the files in the right spot before commit ?
16:15 <Luke-Jr> Svn conversion thread posted
16:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: hm?
16:16 <Luke-Jr> AFAIK, Armagetron doesn't need to sort resources yet
16:16 <Luke-Jr> nor should Python ever be a *requirement*
16:17 <Luke-Jr> not to mention being unusuable at this point due to a lack of secure execution
16:17 <Luke-Jr> unless you're referring to the build process, which can require whatever we want it to ;)
16:19 <Lucifer_arma> "Why can't you just think before you speak?"  --Overkill (and many many others)
16:20 <Lucifer_arma> haha, got all the stuff off the front page on the test drupal and now it's showing the default "you just installed Drupal" message
16:21 <Luke-Jr> and in the case of build process (which wasn't even implied), the "sort before commit" is bad due to CVS's inability to rename ;)
16:23 <Lucifer_arma> *cough* it also lets us store development resources in a way that's actual logical and still enforce the fascist filepath standard on everything when it's installed
16:25 <joda_bot> well you seem to like it ;)
16:25 <joda_bot> to me it looks like some strange way to make it complicated ;)
16:26 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: if files aren't in the right place, it's harder to locate them
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried digging for resources in the filepath standard?
16:26 <Luke-Jr> we'd need to scan the paths and cache the name/version/category/author mappings
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: meaning?
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's a royal pain in that ass
16:26 <Lucifer_arma> *the
16:26 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: think of it more that resources do not have filenames, and the 'filepath' is the method used by the cache to store/locate them by name/author/version/cate
16:27 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: I don't want to make this into a long discussion... just to me this means the resource system is not good enough
16:27 <Luke-Jr> and also the method used to abbreviate resources without a long string describing them
16:27 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't change the fact that I have to click 3 times more than necessary to get to an actual resource, and that's ignoring doing it from the command line
16:27 <joda_bot> Perhaps we can get rid of the problem by ZIP packages
16:27 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: there is no problem
16:27 <Luke-Jr> except ZIP
16:28 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: so don't develop within a cache
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, only reason I started bitching was to counter Luke-Jr's taking advantage of your question to bitch about the possiblity that python might be required some day
16:28 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: The problem is that to me and lucifer (too as it seems) a easier system can be imagined ;)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> well, um, I participated in the discussion and got overruled
16:28 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: sure, you could refer to the MD5 of the resource
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> so we're stuck with this
16:29 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: any other cache storing mechanism is going to be at least as "complicated"
16:29 <joda_bot> fine by me, but I really dig replacing the python script by bash and perhaps CodeBlocks Makefile Management on Windows
16:29 <Luke-Jr> go ahead
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> you have a bash xml parser?
16:30 <Luke-Jr> as long as the cache/filepath format stays the same, I really don't think I care
16:30 <joda_bot> aw, ok, damn ;
16:30 <Luke-Jr> LOL
16:30 <joda_bot> did not think as it seems ;)
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, sortresources parses the xml to get the information it needs to put it in the right place
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's very useful, seriously, because after the stuff's installed, it's not so important we can reach it quickly to develop.
16:31 <Luke-Jr> I would just as well encourage development of resources under filenames like devmap.txt and just let a sorting script handle the caching of it
16:31 <Lucifer_arma> and I guess it's being installed in a logical way.
16:31  * joda_bot won't say anything as it won't improve anything ... just remember I'm unhappy :)
16:32 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: what's the problem w/ a sorting app?
16:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm unhappy with you, but you know....can't be happy with everything, there's what, 50 of us now?
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> also, I don't think zip packages go away, but they do let us get rid of the xml extension
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Hey, I'm sorry I should not critise a system you worked hard on
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> to lucifer-0.1.aacockpit :)
16:33 <Lucifer_arma> s/to/so
16:33 <Luke-Jr> you can get rid of .xml all you want for all I care =p
16:33 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: Luke-Jr: atleast not with a working and implemented alternative at hand ...
16:34 <Luke-Jr> it's only there so the extension has some recognition
16:34 <Luke-Jr> ZIP has no use within the resource system, it's external for distribution of resources only
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> right, and for resources it would be nice if the os recognized it.  so there's another benefit to using zip to throw on the pile
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> correction "ZIP has no use that Luke-Jr can see from inside his asshole in the resource system"
16:35  * Luke-Jr decides not to rebute that
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> probably wise, because the fact that you persist in saying there's no use to having zip around only shows that you consider your own views to override all of ours
16:36 <Luke-Jr> now go read the Svn plans and comment so I can read before I go to work
16:36 <Luke-Jr> =p
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> seeing as how most of us have managed to come up with at least 1 reason to use zip, and altogether it's very compelling
16:36 <Luke-Jr> I didn't say ZIP had no use at all-- just not within the scope of the resource manager/system
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> that correction doesn't change what I said
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm glad you're not a lawyer :)
16:37 <wrtlprnft> I'd say compiling CVS should require python to sort the resources since the filename will change everytime someone changes the file, and CVS doesn't handle it very well
16:37 <wrtlprnft> source releases should heve the resources already sorted
16:37 <Luke-Jr> WFM
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> wfm = ?
16:37 <wrtlprnft> works for me?
16:37  * wrtlprnft is guessing
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> what fucking machine?
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I know
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> whiffle flavored mothball
16:38 <wrtlprnft> we f*** microsoft
16:38 <Lucifer_arma> actually, it probably means Gentoo Kicks All Ass
16:38 <wrtlprnft> doesn't contain a W :(
16:39 <wrtlprnft> thanks Lucifer_arma for the sysop on the wiki
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I've got Administrator and Developer.  The thing already had authenticated user and anonymous user
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> any other roles needed?  I guess this is enough to test...
16:40 <Luke-Jr> Works For Me
16:40 <Luke-Jr> and Gentoo sucks
16:41 <wrtlprnft> yay i guessed right
16:41 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: does your opinion on gentoo have anything to do with the fact that Lucifer_arma is gonna use it now?
16:41 <Luke-Jr> and while I'm explaining crap, my views on resources would generally be weighed higher since I designed and debugged the concepts, and have a generally better view of the system
16:41 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> wasn't he already?
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he loved it until I said I'd start installing it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> no
16:42 <Luke-Jr> just because I use it doesn't mean I like it
16:42 <Luke-Jr> it just sucks least of the options
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: your views on resources would generally be weighed higher if you put your right hand on your left shoulder, your left hand on your right shoulder, and pulled as hard as you can, until you hear a popping noise.
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> That popping noise will be the sound of your head popping out of your ass.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> done cleaning up the wiki :)
16:45 <Luke-Jr> bbl
16:46 <wrtlprnft> if you were to update the wiki to some recent version we could delete revisions
16:48 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that's anatomically impossible ;)
16:48 <wrtlprnft> i guess it wouldn't even really hurt
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I wonder if this liquid wiki module has some mechanism for dealing with spam
16:50 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with http
16:50 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [15:37:55] <Lucifer_arma> http://armatest.davefancella.com/?q=node/4  <-- looks just like my website only with a tron floor, haha
16:50 <Lucifer_arma> no way, I posted this link after that:  http://armatest.davefancella.com/
16:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but that page has a home link :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> i already looked at it from school
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it does.  Umm, except I've been working on it in between talking trash at luke
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with password
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [13:00:02] <Lucifer_arma> obviously since I"m willing to blab passwords here in irc you should put anything important there :)
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ack
16:52 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with flower
16:52 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [12:59:41] <Lucifer_arma> pwd is flowers of course
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> hahahaha
16:52 <wrtlprnft> ah, "flowers"
16:52 <wrtlprnft> forgot the s
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's my standard test password for development systems
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to remember, and brightens up debug output
16:52 <wrtlprnft> "my account" lol
16:53 <wrtlprnft> > Are you the real Player 1?
16:53 <wrtlprnft> d'oh
16:53 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
16:54 <Lucifer_arma> heh, you like the slogan?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> yeah
16:54 <wrtlprnft> uh, where did that ticket buisness go?
16:54 <wrtlprnft> the toilet paper stuff
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> Projects
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> er, Downloads now
16:55 <wrtlprnft> downloads?!
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> hahaha
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
16:55 <wrtlprnft> well, you can't guess that i guess
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe just calling it Projects is better
16:56 <wrtlprnft> yeah
17:01 <wrtlprnft> oh, heck
17:02 <wrtlprnft> my doog just hit the close button of my browser
17:02 <wrtlprnft> scratch one o
17:02 <Self_Destructo> hrm
17:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, yes, Self_Destructo, McSpiddles|zZzZz: the match on wednesday is cancelled
17:03 <Self_Destructo> my recent compilation of CVS HEAD made a 23.1 MB .exe file
17:03 <wrtlprnft> looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: ok
17:03 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles|zZzZz the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell McSpiddles the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:04 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spider the match on wednesday is cancelled, looks like AW can't get their guys together
17:04 <wrtlprnft> ...
17:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
17:05 <wrtlprnft> *insert usual rant about people not sticking to one nick here*
17:05 <Self_Destructo> well, I do, normally
17:05 <Self_Destructo> and when I am here I will use Self_Destructo
17:05 <MaZuffeR> we (??) won CT 3-0 even if we let them play with 8 against only 6 of us :D
17:06 <wrtlprnft> well
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 1st match was really tight
17:06 <wrtlprnft> you just have the best people ;)
17:06 <MaZuffeR> 100-92 iirc
17:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
17:07 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
17:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> that was a short supper
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I should go fix my outgoing mail server real quick and then post about this here test sight
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> oh, wasn't dinner, sorry.  I was playing on the "rants about people always changing their names"
17:08 <wrtlprnft> oh ok
17:09 -!- You're now known as pnttrfrwl
17:09 -!- You're now known as rtflwtpnr
17:09 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
17:10 <wrtlprnft> :D
17:13 -!- pavelo [n=pavelo@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Resource_System  <-- do a minor edit of this page to trigger a notification email for me
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh fuck, nvm
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok, outgoing mail server fixed
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I got 35 emails for fixing it
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting more.  dammit
17:15 <wrtlprnft> lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> might hit it's upper limit of 150 emails, heh.
17:16  * n54 logs back into gmail
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> oh no.  haha.
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> sorry guys.  I had no idea....
17:16 <n54> misunderstanding?
17:16 <n54> I'e got 200+ mails waiting? XD
17:16 <wrtlprnft> does that mean you'll get them in portions of 150 mails a day until the buffer is flushed?
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, for people who've been editing pages on the wiki, they might get dumped with a lot of stashed email from when the connection broke between the mail server and no-ip
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> so, how do I flush the cache?
17:17 <n54> only one mail here :)
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm just going to blow it off
17:36 <wrtlprnft> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Spyware_infestation.png
17:37 <wrtlprnft> I'm missing the googlebar there
17:38 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-051-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
17:40 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["ut is wat ut is"]
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no-ip has disabled my outgoing account until tomorrow.  :(
17:49 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
17:49 <Self_Destructo> so what is the test website about?
17:51 <Self_Destructo> hm, seems to be a mix of a couple of CMS's
17:54 <n54> lol wrtlprnft that pic is insane XD
17:58 <n54> it's only drupal afaik Self_Destructo
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's only drupal
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: are you there right now?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, someone give me an email address they can check right now if I send an email to it
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> done
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks.  tell me if you get the email
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it just has subject and body "test"
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> never seen that kind of email bounce off a spam filter :)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> got it
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool.
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> one more thing...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> ok, looks like no-ip didn't cut me off.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> got worried, I have to send invoices tomorrow, and I can't have my email locked
18:05 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I found how to clear the queue, and I figured it's been so long since the server worked that nobody would miss any of the emails it was holding
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now time to work on dinner :)
18:06 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
19:03 <wrtlprnft> http://armagetronad.net/
19:03 <wrtlprnft> did you ever pay attention to that "Online Servers" box?
19:03 <wrtlprnft> reload the page a few times and look :D
19:08 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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19:13 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: what about it?
19:25 <wrtlprnft> it changes :D
19:26 <Self_Destructo> no kidding
19:26 <Self_Destructo> #dict Etiquette
19:26 <armabot> Self_Destructo: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: etiquette n : rules governing socially acceptable behavior; gcide: Etiquette \Et"i*quette`\, n. [F. prop., a little piece of paper, or a mark or title, affixed to a bag or bundle, expressing its contents, a label, ticket, OF.estiquete, of German origin; cf. LG. stikke peg, pin, tack, stikken to stick, G. stecken. See {Stick}, and cf. (5 more messages)
19:26 <Self_Destructo> speel check
19:26 <Self_Destructo> spell*
20:00 -!- McSpiddles|zZzZz is now known as McSpiddles
20:00 <McSpiddles> whoa
20:00 <McSpiddles> i was out for along time
20:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:09 <ghableska> hello
20:09 <McSpiddles> hey ghab
20:09 <ghableska> hi McSpiddles
20:09 <McSpiddles> sup d00
20:09 <McSpiddles> d00d
20:10 <ghableska> not much...
20:10 <ghableska> you?
20:10 <McSpiddles> just waking up,lol
20:10 <ghableska> heh
20:17 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
20:40 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit ["Quit in 0,527003 second(s)"]
21:11 -!- Self_Destructo [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
21:11  * Self_Destructo is back, obviously
21:15 <wrtlprnft> looks like it
21:16 <wrtlprnft> did you have any luck understanding my pseudocode?
21:25 <McSpiddles> qb
21:25 <McSpiddles> lol
21:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090AAC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:28 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I haven't really had a chance to study it out
21:33 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p5090932F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:33 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: #ifndef ARMAGETRON_COCKPIT_H
21:33 <Self_Destructo> ???
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake --help
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #wake wrtlprnft
21:34 <Self_Destructo> #tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:34 <Self_Destructo> armabot tell wrtlprnft wake up
21:47 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:48 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that should say ROTATION_H
21:49 <wrtlprnft> well, now you know where I copy and pasted from ;)
21:49 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: ping
21:50 <wrtlprnft> #wake Self_Destructo 
21:50 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:51 <Self_Destructo> i had to run outside for a sec
21:51 <wrtlprnft> ah
21:51 <wrtlprnft> i was playing arma :D
21:51 <Self_Destructo> I'm looking at your cockpit files to see kinda how you did things
21:51 <wrtlprnft> yeah. Change that include please...
21:51 <Self_Destructo> although, what I do probably wont even be near the same
21:52 <Self_Destructo> already done
21:52 <wrtlprnft> ok...
21:52 <wrtlprnft> well, there's a *very* basic framework in gRotation
21:52 <Self_Destructo> yes
21:53 <Self_Destructo> my main deal will be how to get the data, and what to do after all the logic is done
21:53 <wrtlprnft> well
21:53 <Self_Destructo> i can get the logic in between easily
21:53 <wrtlprnft> the new round and new match i already handled for you
21:53 <wrtlprnft> that main gRotationTag tree will receive the right events
21:54 <Self_Destructo> static void cfcb(void) {
21:54 <Self_Destructo> gRotation::GetRotator().Parse();
21:54 <Self_Destructo> }
21:54 <wrtlprnft> the idea is that if the tag can do something with the event it got it does so, if not it hands it to its childs
21:54 <Self_Destructo> ?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> well
21:54 <wrtlprnft> gRotation is a class that will only have a single instance
21:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe later you can expand that to multiple instances and multiple rotation files
21:55 <wrtlprnft> go gRotation::GetRotator returns a pointer to the gRotation instance if it exists already
21:55 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't it creates one
21:56 <Self_Destructo> ok
21:56 <Self_Destructo> well
21:56 <Self_Destructo> i g2g
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ok, cya
21:56 <Self_Destructo> can we talk tomorrow?
21:56 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
21:56 <wrtlprnft> /team Sure.
21:56 <SD|away> ok
22:04 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:04 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!

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