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Log from 2006-05-13:
--- Day changed Sat May 13 2006
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01:36 <philippeqc> good morning
01:55 <z-man-home> morning
01:56 <philippeqc> How are you today
01:56 <z-man-home> not yet fully awake, 1/5th cup of coffee left
01:57 <philippeqc> That 1/5 seems to have great power
01:57 <guru3> good morning
01:57 <philippeqc> to make such a difference
01:57 <philippeqc> Hi guru
01:59 <philippeqc> O, I just realised I was about to reinvent the wheel. Anyone know of easy way to do the Set (as in Set and Subset) operation Union, Intersection and Difference between 2 collections (deque in this case)
02:01 <z-man-home> You're using deques as sets? Are the contents sorted?
02:02 <z-man-home> guru3: when will your exams be over? It would be nice if we could make the Darcs/SVN/CVS/Mantis/Trac/Bugzilla decision soon, when you an Lucifer_arma are free
02:03 <guru3> my last exam is the 23rd of may
02:03 <guru3> between now and then i have 8 more exams
02:03 <z-man-home> I didn't know there were that many subjects to study :)
02:03 <guru3> only 6
02:03 <guru3> but multiple exams in each
02:03 <z-man-home> ah
02:04 <guru3> so exams started on the 2nd
02:04 <guru3> i've done 7 so far :/
02:05 <philippeqc> The crowd (lucifer and wrt) insisted on deques, I just wanted collections. As for being sorted, atm it is unknown, as it will return list of players. But I could manage to have them sorted.
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> um, I just need some pointers to where the connection info or whatever is for the test systems
02:05 <Lucifer_arma> my exams are over
02:05 <z-man-home> I gave the pointers on the forum :)
02:06 <z-man-home> darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v 
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I see them now
02:06 <Lucifer_arma> I was immersed in fortress, been awhile since I could just take a few fuck off hours and play :)
02:07 <Lucifer_arma> um, I didn't insist on deques....
02:07 <guru3> oy gevalt!
02:07 <z-man-home> philippeqc: unsorted deques or vectors are horribly bad for set operations :)
02:08  * Lucifer_arma is installing darcs, hopefully
02:08 <Lucifer_arma> what's the other scm we're looking at?
02:08 <z-man-home> SVN
02:08 <guru3> i like svn
02:08 <guru3> i know how to use it :/
02:08 <z-man-home> bzr basically is out for clumsy merge support
02:08 <guru3> why can't we find a revision control system that's based on mysql
02:09 <guru3> and then use the mysql redundancy thing
02:09 <philippeqc> z-man-home: that I've guessed. I was just about to start coding the intersection method when I realised that, and that someone else must have already written that code.
02:09 <z-man-home> I'd transform the deques into sets just for the operation, then transform them back
02:10 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: ok, not insisted, just presented as a better alternative. 
02:10 <philippeqc> Is there a Set std class?
02:10 <z-man-home> and for sets (the same works with deques, but slower), for a union/intersection/difference, I'd iterate over one container and check whether the element also is in the other, and put it into the result container
02:10 <z-man-home> std::set , yes
02:11 <z-man-home> it's basically a std::map without values
02:11 <z-man-home> http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/set.html
02:11 <philippeqc> just found generic algorith set_difference, set_intersection, set_symetricdifference and set_union
02:11 <z-man-home> oh, sweet.
02:11 <philippeqc> yes really
02:12 <philippeqc> seems to work from 4 iterators and one output!
02:13 <z-man-home> Then they only work on sorted containers.
02:13 <philippeqc> Making sure they are sorted is a low price!
02:13 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: what "resources" are under our control besides the forums, wiki & main site
02:13 <z-man-home> aabeta?
02:14 <guru3> anyone? anyone at all?
02:14 <guru3> ;)
02:14 <philippeqc> resource.armagetronad.net
02:14 <z-man-home> Of course,  it's Luke's, so it can be argued aabeta is not really under our control :)
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:14 <philippeqc> so is the resource one
02:14 <philippeqc> sorry guru3, I cant help you with that question
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's it.  And if we get off sf for trackers and scm, then those too
02:15 <z-man-home> Perhaps the master servers fit that category as well
02:15 <guru3> gargh blah
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> dave@ghostwheel:~/Projects/test$ darcs get http://master1.armagetronad.net/armagetronad/HEAD/armagetronad --partial -v
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> darcs failed:  You must provide 'get' with either one or two arguments.
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> right, yes, the master servers that we control directly fit that category
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> someone making a list?  :)
02:16 <z-man-home> what's your darcs version?
02:16 <Lucifer_arma> 1.0.3
02:16 <guru3> i don't feel like doing anything else to the forums, so... i'm just not gonna add those sections
02:17 <z-man-home> perhaps you need --partial -v http:// instead
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that was it
02:17 <z-man-home> I've got 1.0.5
02:17 <guru3> breakfast bbl
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> um, ok, for the forums and the wiki, if they just let us make ...
02:17 <Lucifer_arma> ok
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> nvm.  Not sure I"m thinking too clearly right now, heh
02:18 <Lucifer_arma> how long does it take darcs to get the thing?
02:19 <z-man-home> The server has only 128kbit/s upload bandwidth...
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> ok, we wanted a distributed setup with sourceforge's SCM as basically a backup, right?
02:19 <z-man-home> You're fetching some megabytes
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> was darcs the only distributed setup to show up?
02:19 <z-man-home> If we're using SVN as a basis, this SVK or whatever it was can be used by anyone, too
02:20 <z-man-home> Running the SCM ourselves completely was also discussed
02:21 <z-man-home> I personally don't mind, if we have mirrors in place, the SF outages don't worry me too much
02:21 <z-man-home> Using Trac with the SVN integration it provides is tempting, however. That would be more difficult if the SVN repository is remote.
02:21 <z-man-home> Impossible even, maybe.
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> well, I looked over trac a bit.  I don't think the wiki would replace our wiki, but it would make sense to put development documentation in it
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> end-user docs would still go on the wiki we already have.  I suppose we could throw out what we've got and move to that one.
02:22 <z-man-home> Yes, I feel the same about the wiki
02:22 <Lucifer_arma> bug tracking looked fine to me, I'm simple about that sort of the thing.
02:22 <z-man-home> Altough the Trac wiki is extensible with python :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't manage to coerce it to let me play with the roadmap.  Is it safe to assume the roadmap provided is better than using a tracker?
02:23  * Lucifer_arma notes that "extensible with Python" should be used with care if you want reasonable thoughts from him.  :)
02:24 <z-man-home> Oh, I removed roadmap admin rights from the anonymous user. Shall I give them back?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, I don't know
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> depends on the answer to my question.  Ok, here's the thing.
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> IN 1 hour I could write a tracker that's better than sourceforge's, right?
02:24 <Lucifer_arma> literally just about anything is better and more worthwhile for us.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm easy.  :)  Trac looks good.
02:25 <Lucifer_arma> I don't want to take over our own scm unless it's distributed.  If it's distributed, I"ll be happy to take it over.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> if it can be distributed in a way that sourceforge has a node, so much the better.
02:26 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I think.  And near as I can tell, in that regard just about anything is better than cvs.  :)
02:26 <z-man-home> Anonymous users have admin rights now on trac
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, Trac also looks like it does everything useful that sourceforge does except the file release system.  Is all of trac python-extensible?
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> because if it is..........................
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> the flip side is that I know gForge pretty well having had hacking it as a recent assignment.
02:27 <z-man-home> We could use SF's SVN as the central node, with emergency mirrors via rsync and general use mirrors via SVK or darcs.
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I've got darcs and svk both installed now.  svn of course, had that for awhile.
02:28 <z-man-home> Could you set us a gforge test server? Or does it look too much like SF to be worth it?
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it *is* SF.  :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> um, look over gForge.com, I think it is, maybe gforge.org
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> it takes awhile to setup, it's a pain to setup actually.
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and, to be honest, trac provides all the stuff gforge has that we don't already have, except the file release system
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> and it looks like Trac's UI is substantially better.  :)
02:29 <Lucifer_arma> brb, kid's coughing
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> ok, back
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> gforge for us is just "start with exactly what we have and build our own from there".  That's all.  Get something that gives us a lot more from the starting line, forget about gforge.
02:31 <z-man-home> The important bit about the file release system are the mirrors, IMHO, and the strong SF mirrors can't be replaced by anything we can set up
02:32 <z-man-home> And for betas, we either have aabeta or attachments in Trac
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> right.  Although we might be able to throw together a front-end that works for us and uses sourceforge's for the backend.
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> especially if sourceforge gets smart and works on a soap interface to it.  :)
02:32 <z-man-home> I'd be extremely happy if there was a replacement for the horrible file release submission UI :)
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, one more to look at
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> maybe
02:35 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/issues
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'd be inclined to go to Drupal for everything.  Move the forums into it, the main website, trackers, everything, and write our own modules to do it as needed.
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> it might be more work than a lot of other things, but Drupal really does do the rest of the stuff we need
02:36 <Lucifer_arma> like, um, dealing with replication or some other mechanism to distribute the site contained
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> 1 login for forums, wiki, and the other stuff
02:37 <z-man-home> Is the tracker used by trupal really part of drupal itself?
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/  <-- this is the project module
02:37 <Lucifer_arma> the tracker I just linked is part of the project module
02:37 <z-man-home> I stumbled across it when the last release was announced, and wondered whether I should suggest it
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> I can probably setup a test of that pretty easily--after I upgrade my website
02:38 <Lucifer_arma> but you can use the one on Drupal's site to test it just fine.  :)  mostly, anyway.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> Drupal's api for modules pretty much forces tight integration.
02:39 <Lucifer_arma> and my next (not current) assignment is going to be writing everything I just did as mambo components into drupal modules.  :)  So I'm literally going to be swimming in it in another month or two
02:40 <Lucifer_arma> the Project module would also give us a moviepack hosting place, and other third-party additions for the game
02:41 <z-man-home> It looks and feels nice, that's for sure.
02:41 <Lucifer_arma> I think we should seriously consider this.  :)
02:41 <z-man-home> yes, absolutely.
02:42  * z-man-home has to go shopping now
02:43 <z-man-home> away display isn't updated properly, it seems :)
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02:48 <guru3> back
02:49 <guru3> my hands hurt :(
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> now that I look at it, drupal's tracker doesn't look much better than sourceforge's :/
02:52 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll post about it instead :)
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04:11 <philippeqc>  /away
04:20 <guru3> heh
04:20 <guru3> smoothe
04:20 <Lucifer_arma> ?
04:21 <guru3> nm
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Wiki Land
04:25 <guru3> aye
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08:07 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:07 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft! Random Fortune:  I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few || months. I just love debugging ;-) || -- Linus Torvalds
08:08  * wrtlprnft hopes the version system stuff will be decided soom :)
09:01 <guru3> anyone good with modems?
09:16 <wrtlprnft> nope
09:16 <wrtlprnft> haven't used/seen one in 2 years
09:16 <guru3> i need the linux equivelent of hyperterminal :/
09:17 <wrtlprnft> minicom?
09:18 <wrtlprnft> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/minicom/
09:19 <wrtlprnft> i used that for programming (actually debugging) some small robot over a serial interface
09:20 <guru3> yes
09:20 <guru3> something like that
09:21 <wrtlprnft> the manual went through hyperterminal for windows and minicom for unix, so i guess they're similar
09:21 <z-man-home> yes, they are, I worked a while with both
09:22 <z-man-home> back in the days where my university didn't offer SLIP access :)
09:23 <guru3> you think
09:23 <guru3> that there would be more apps for this in unix
09:23 <wrtlprnft> thanks for adding joda_bot and me to the authors file :)
09:23 <z-man-home> you were already there in the branch
09:23 <wrtlprnft> oh, really?
09:23 <z-man-home> I think so. Today, I just merged.
09:24 <wrtlprnft> didn't notice... most of my work is in the trunk
09:24 <guru3> z-man-home: do you know the gentoo package for cu?
09:24 <z-man-home> what is cu?
09:24 <guru3> i think it stands for call user
09:24 <guru3> http://www.computerhope.com/unix/ucu.htm
09:24 <z-man-home> ah, the progam that lets you contact another local user?
09:25 <z-man-home> ah no, a terminal program :)
09:25 <guru3> yes
09:25 <guru3> nice & simple
09:26 <guru3> ad it's like dropped off the end of the earth
09:26 <z-man-home> nobody wants those anymore, it seems
09:27 <guru3> :/
09:27 <guru3> i miss hyperterminal :(
09:28 <wrtlprnft> WINE?
09:28 <guru3> i've got an app for my mac that does it
09:28 <guru3> my palm
09:28 <guru3> WINDOWS
09:28 <guru3> i've seen it for a newton
09:28 <guru3> but windows
09:28 <guru3> *but linux
09:28 <guru3> is like a dead zone
09:29 <wrtlprnft> interesting since linux first was nothing more than a terminal emulator
09:29 <guru3> yes
09:29 <guru3> now how do i use minicom ><
09:29 <wrtlprnft> uh
09:29 <wrtlprnft> long time ago...
09:30 <wrtlprnft> let me install it first, maybe it comes back to me
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09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: What about our match tonight or tomorrow ?
09:35 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: how many players do u have ?
09:36 <wrtlprnft> guru3: first say <C-A>P and set up the right parameters i guess
09:36 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: currently 3, but i didn't hear from ota, eagle and miro yet
09:36 <guru3> hmm
09:37 <guru3> im back to getting the modem working it seems
09:37 <wrtlprnft> guru3: and then and then <C-A>o
09:37 <wrtlprnft> there select serial port setup to get the right device file
09:38 <guru3> i need to get the damn modem working first
09:38 <guru3> i thought it was :/
09:38 <wrtlprnft> and that's about what I know about it
09:38 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: how many do you have?
09:39 <guru3> ok
09:39 <guru3> thanks
09:40 <wrtlprnft> works?
09:42 <guru3> still on it
09:42 <guru3> yes it does
09:42 <wrtlprnft> :)
09:42 <guru3> need a phone cable now
09:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what's on the wiki ;)
09:43 <guru3> ok
09:43 <guru3> now to see if modem to modem works
09:43 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: except for ender and you , who ?
09:43 <joda_bot> spidey ?
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i think so, yes
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #last --from spidey --nolimit
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:51:01] <spidey> i'll see ya there, [19:50:59] <spidey> anyways, [19:50:53] <spidey> D:\ is the fresh install :p, [19:50:49] <spidey> i got 40gigs of crap on C:\, [19:50:12] <spidey> so i formatted with it, [19:50:07] <spidey> i got a legit cd, [19:49:40] <spidey> :/, [19:49:40] <spidey> oh yea,gotta reinstall arma, [19:49:13] <spidey> sure,lemme close p2p and soldat server, (7 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> #more
09:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [19:48:43] <spidey> i kinda suck now :/, [19:48:39] <spidey> i'ma have to stop playing soldat and more fortress, [19:48:25] <spidey> k, [19:48:06] <spidey> ah, [19:47:59] <spidey> sent 1 day 11 hours ago, [19:47:51] <spidey> what was with the armabot message?, [19:47:42] <spidey> phew, [19:47:37] <spidey> it hasn't happened yet?, [19:47:31] <spidey> ohhh, [19:47:07] <spidey> and 1 (6 more messages)
09:44 <wrtlprnft> i take that as a yes
09:45 <guru3> time to research hayes modem commands
09:45 <wrtlprnft> so it's sunday now i guess?
09:46 <n54> perhaps in australia
09:46 <joda_bot> ok , let's lock sunday down
09:46 <n54> oh :)
09:48 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's wednesday on mars?
09:48 <n54> they don't have weekdays over there ;) (not yet at least)
09:49 <guru3> how do i get modems to not care about the carrier :/
09:50 <n54> hmm what is your goal guru3?
09:51 <guru3> two modems directly connected
09:52 <guru3> it's not going well
09:52 <joda_bot> guru3: use a nullmodem cable ?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> yeah...
09:53 <n54> have you read http://www.linux.com/howtos/Modem-HOWTO-26.shtml guru3?
09:53 <guru3> joda_bot: that's serial
09:53 <guru3> not modem
09:53 <guru3> no
09:53 <guru3> haven't read that n54 
09:53 <n54> might help out
09:53 <joda_bot> modem != serial connected ?
09:54 <n54> there's a link in that how-to to another setup as well for older modems
09:54 <joda_bot> well perhaps you want to make call thourgh your home telephone system
09:54 <joda_bot> then I can understand why you would want to use two modems
09:54 <guru3> the problem is i have no dialtone
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09:55 <n54> try setting ATX to blind dial but I reccommend reading beforehand :)
09:55 <guru3> it keeps complaining about carrier
09:57 <wrtlprnft> what?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> arma wants to create a dir /www-root on install?
09:58 <wrtlprnft> i decide what directories i want in my /, no program should make one there
10:00 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Sunday 20:00 GMT ?
10:03 <wrtlprnft> #g 20 -7
10:03 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 20 - 7 = 13
10:03 <wrtlprnft> that's 1PM, ok
10:03 <joda_bot> lol no, it's -5
10:03 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
10:03 <joda_bot> it's 22:00 for me
10:03 <joda_bot> MET
10:03 <wrtlprnft> 7 was MESZ <=> CDT
10:03 <joda_bot> right
10:03 <wrtlprnft> even better, so it's 3PM
10:03 <joda_bot> ;)
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'll write a Email to my team, if you happen to meet whatup tell him too
10:04 <wrtlprnft> so, err, anyone an idea how i can install arma locally?
10:04 <joda_bot> Because he did not send me an email yet
10:04 <joda_bot> huh 
10:04 <joda_bot> ?
10:04 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: where ?
10:04 <wrtlprnft> it wants to create a directory /www-root, and i refuse
10:05 <joda_bot> where did you install it into ?
10:05 <joda_bot> using root access ?
10:05 <wrtlprnft> even if i give it a --prefix in my /home and activate --disable-etc
10:05 <joda_bot> I usually just compile it and start it, where it is... or run it inside a user account without install
10:05 <wrtlprnft> I don't want a developlment version of arma installed in my system
10:05 <joda_bot> right ;)
10:06 <wrtlprnft> I do for testing, but the version i usually play with i install
10:06 <joda_bot> sounds like a makefile / configure problem
10:06 <joda_bot> I'm not any good with those
10:06 <wrtlprnft> wasn't there a few hours ago
10:07 <wrtlprnft> I like how different versions share the same ~/.armagetronad, that's why i make install
10:07 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: that also works with dev builds ... except debug versions 
10:07 <joda_bot> AFAIK
10:08 <wrtlprnft> nope, they use a separate profile
10:08 <joda_bot> really ?
10:08 <joda_bot> hmm, never noticed
10:08 <joda_bot> always worked for me
10:08 <wrtlprnft> okok
10:08 <wrtlprnft> now i created that /www-root, reluctantly, and what did it put in there?
10:09 <wrtlprnft> http://pastebin.ca/55564
10:09 <wrtlprnft> is that worth it?
10:10 <n54> no
10:10 <z-man-home> hehe
10:10 <z-man-home> maybe the merging messed something up there
10:10 <z-man-home> I'll go and check
10:10 <wrtlprnft> thanks
10:11 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Should the modified files not be shown in the RSS news feed / CVS history ?
10:11 <joda_bot> btw. is there a CVS spam message delivery from SF ?
10:11 <z-man-home> which feed? The CIA thing luke is managing
10:11 <z-man-home> CVS spam?
10:12 <joda_bot> I use this news feed: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad/.rss
10:12 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: thanks for the link, that thing looks great :)
10:13 <z-man-home> www-root must have been broken during the merge, my pre-merge backup doesn't have the problem
10:13 <z-man-home> and the post merge does
10:14 <z-man-home> the installer probably uses an outdated directory name
10:15 <wrtlprnft> thanks for investigating :) I wanna get rid of that dir ASAP
10:15 <joda_bot> z-man-home: CVS Spam is a ruby script that generates HTML colored diffs of the code changes
10:16 <joda_bot> each changes size/line count can be limited
10:16 <joda_bot> I'll try to find it
10:16 <joda_bot> Probably someone with enough rights can add that to SFs CVSRoot of Armagetron
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/example-simple.html
10:17 <joda_bot> Example Email on Website
10:17 <joda_bot> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/
10:18 <n54> that looks handy
10:21 <z-man-home> I'd say you all have write access to CVSROOT, but I recently restricted it to just me&tank when i restricted write access for SD
10:21 <guru3> gargh modems are enough to drive a man crazy
10:22 <z-man-home> wrtlprnft: the www-root problem should be fixed now, it was just a missing variable assignment
10:24 <joda_bot> z-man-home: only works if SF allows sending of emails and if they have ruby support
10:24 <joda_bot> otherwise it won't work anyway
10:24 <z-man-home> I think email sending is allowed
10:24 <z-man-home> not sure about ruby
10:25 <joda_bot> there are also perl scripts out there for the job
10:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man-home: works now, thanks
10:42 <guru3> well
10:42 <guru3> so much for that
11:01 <wrtlprnft> #later tell spidey the match was moved to Sunday, 3PM CDT... can you still be there?
11:01 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-010-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
11:05 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-065-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
11:05 -!- joda_bo1 is now known as joda_bot
11:08 <wrtlprnft> meriton has some nice stuff there :)
11:12 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: what are you talking about ?
11:12 <joda_bot> missed something
11:12 <wrtlprnft> ttp://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3456
11:12 <wrtlprnft> imagine th h
11:12 <wrtlprnft> and the e
11:17 <joda_bot> z-man-home: should I be able to add myself to the avail list ?
11:17 <wrtlprnft> although the smooth scrolling is a bit weird... i like the old code more. but the cam is excellent
11:18 <joda_bot> z-man-home: Just added my self to CVSROOT avail list, I thought that should not be possible due to write restirctions ?
11:19 <joda_bot> I'm happy to remove myself, just wanted to know if block is working...
11:21 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I updated the 8th's wiki talk page to reflect 20:00 GMT tomorrow
11:22 <wrtlprnft> ok
11:22 <wrtlprnft> gotta get used to that new glancing :)
11:44 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
12:10 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> hi
12:39 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
12:47 <n54> hi lucifer
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13:25 <wrtlprnft> i can't reach the forums... again...
13:25 <wrtlprnft> the funny thing is that i can reach my server and my server can browse them just fine with elinks
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you here?
13:32 <Lucifer_arma> forums are responding for me
13:33 <GodTodd> yeah i'm here
13:33 <n54> same here, no problem with the forum just like the other day
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I don't think you'll have *problems* with math.  :)  Just, you know, the extra semesters can be frustrating
13:34 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i said my server can reach them just fine
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> also, I won't try to venture what the schools in your area organize their math classes.  Too much variance there
13:34 <Lucifer_arma> but I had to take a separate Trig class, and you know in Alamogordo I would've gone straight to calc without taking a trig class
13:34 <n54> oh so you weren't really asking - ok
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> and it was frustrating retaking math I'd already taken besides.  Not that I'm complaining too much, it was fun and I needed it, but it was an extra year's worth of classtime too
13:35 <Lucifer_arma> any idea what degree you're wanting?
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> heh, here's something weird.  At ACC, for any business major, you take College Algebra, then Business Calc I and 2
13:36 <GodTodd> yeah...i know what you're saying....just hoping for the best, ya know?  I think I've decided on EE
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> and you can transfer that as a block to UT.
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> But at UT, if you want any business major, you have to take Calc 1 and 2, *then* Business Calc 1 and 2
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> weird shit, if you ask me.
13:37 <GodTodd> lol...what they have there is a failure to communicate ;)
13:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'd wager UT business students are probably quite a bit better on the average than ACC business students.  :)
13:38 <GodTodd> i think that'd be a safe bet
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> all's I know is the College of Engineering wants a complete Calc sequence before you transfer, so I suspect their math classes aren't particularly compatible anyway.
13:38 <wrtlprnft> n54: well, i was wondering if anyone would have an idea what the reason could be ;)
13:38 <Lucifer_arma> heh, the other thing to consider is some of the core classes might only transfer in blocks.  LIke, from ACC to UT, History 1 doesn't transfer.
13:39 <GodTodd> i just have to make sure that anything i take at CCCC transfers pretty seamlessly to UTD
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> *But*, History 1 & 2 transfer as a 6-hour block
13:39 <GodTodd> yeah...that's the kind of stuff i need to find out
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> ask them for a sheet for the college of engineering that shows what transfers and what doesn't.  ACC gave me one for the UT College of Engineering
13:39 <GodTodd> yep...on the checklist :)
13:39 <Lucifer_arma> it lists all the required classes at UT that ACC offers in a transferable way.  :)
13:40 <GodTodd> also going to have to see what kind of credance they give my AAS
13:40 <Lucifer_arma> hm.  Generally, when pursuing another undergraduate degree, you just apply as an undergraduate and try to transfer the credits.
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> In that case, they'd ignore the AAS (except maybe if it was needed to weed out competitors and pick you--not a problem in community colleges)
13:41 <Lucifer_arma> but they'd look at GPA and the actual classes.  It's a non-Texas school, right?
13:41 <GodTodd> i know....i took a year at NMSUA....ended up with only Comp I transferring....then finished this latest degree....so hopefully some of the classes will apply
13:41 <GodTodd> yeah
13:42 <GodTodd> 3.289 GPA
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> I imagine you're safe with comp I.  :)  But here's something that's annoying
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> UT wants you to take Comp I and some literature class to get a BS/BA, right?
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> ACC provides those classes and they transfer!
13:42 <Lucifer_arma> But, at ACC, the Literature class has Comp II as a prerequisite.
13:42 <GodTodd> lol
13:42 <GodTodd> and not at UT?
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> So if I want to take the literature class at ACC, I have to take Comp II, which UT doesn't care about and will probably ignore anyway
13:43 <GodTodd> right
13:43 <GodTodd> that's academic thinkin' fer ya ;)
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> so I took comp 1, and I'll take the literature class at UT, when it's a weed out class.  :(
13:43 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh.
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> I'm considering using UT's distance learning program to squeeze out the literature class, but their program isn't covered by financial aid, so I'd have to pay up for it
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> ~$300
13:44 <GodTodd> ouch
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> dude, that's a steal!  :)
13:44 <GodTodd> hell...i'm just glad i can think about all of it now...i have residency :)
13:44 <Lucifer_arma> After I get my residency status changed, this 4-hour Calc 2 class I'm taking this summer is $400
13:44 <GodTodd> yeah...still expensive tho :P
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> heh, another thing.  These guys in this channel are pretty helpful.  :)  I think I got a whole letter grade higher on at least one test thanks to help found here.
13:45 <Lucifer_arma> math, it has to be.  Lots of calc students here, though.
13:46 <GodTodd> cool :)
13:46 <GodTodd> i'm in a learning frame of mind lately....think the whole 'househusband' thing is starting to get to me.....teaching myself CSS now....need to get into school...heh
13:47 <Lucifer_arma> cabin fever, my wife calls it
13:47 <GodTodd> yeah...that :)
13:48 <Lucifer_arma> you got any new books for me to read?  I just ran out....  ;)
13:49 <GodTodd> lol
13:49 <GodTodd> i have two chapters each of two of them on my website...i'm holding back on more tho....none complete, however
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I could pick up another baen book, heh
13:54 <GodTodd> actually...i'll send you the one....i'm about 1/3 to 1/4th of the way through it....it just seems to have gone flat....can't pinpoint the problem....writer's blindness...it'll probably stick right out at you....
13:54 <Lucifer_arma> so no finished books?  Any book likely to be finished before I catch up with you?
13:55 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, ok.
13:57 <GodTodd> ok to send it in OOO 2 format? or what format do you prefer?
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's fine.  I'm running ooo 2 :)
13:57 <Lucifer_arma> and it has a palm export, iirc.  I seem to remember stumbling across it, anyway.
13:57 <GodTodd> cool...just wanted to check :)
13:59 <GodTodd> bah...i lied....i sent both that have stalled ;)
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> haha.  that's cool.
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> I've been devouring baen books lately, but it's a lot of military sci-fi and alternative history
14:00 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm looking around, like at school, and wondering where I'm going to get futuristic weapons to fight the alien invaders--if any should happen to show up
14:01 <n54> o.O
14:01 <GodTodd> lol
14:02 <GodTodd> i got one baen book at half price books....still have to read it....got a trip to Alamo coming up at the end of the month...probably read it then 
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not much else to do in that town.
14:05 <GodTodd> it's an honor harrington book
14:05 <Lucifer_arma> On Basilisk Station?
14:06 <GodTodd> no lie...i go there every now and again just to remind myself why i moved
14:06 <GodTodd> yeah
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how well the honor harrington books stand on their own, but OBS is the first one.  :)
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> it's a good book.
14:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, this summer, instead of making up a reason to go to Alamogordo, I decided to take calc 2 :)
14:06 <GodTodd> lol
14:07 <GodTodd> well...i have to make the rounds to show off Conor
14:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know how that goes.  :)
14:07 <GodTodd> made up that reason a few months ago ;)
14:08 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, the hit counter on the baen free library is over 3 million
14:09 <GodTodd> wow
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't even notice they had one, because I don't look at stupid stuff like hit counters.  :)
14:10 <GodTodd> lol
14:11 <wrtlprnft> i just can't get rid of gnome... it re-emerges without any reason if i try to update
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> Probably at least 1000 of those hits are me.  ;)
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> any reason you can't live with it?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> idealism?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> those are tem useless packages
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> bah.  it's a computer, who needs idealism?  ;)
14:12 <wrtlprnft> and everytime i do an emerge -e world those would get compiled as well
14:12 <Lucifer_arma> good behavior, manners, and ideals go out the window in favor of technology, don't they?
14:13  * Lucifer_arma gets all snobby whenever he looks at the baen free library
14:13 <wrtlprnft> lol
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> Is Andre Norton good?  My mom used to tell me so....
14:14 <GodTodd> not sure
14:14 <GodTodd> i hear mercedes lackey is
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, the books are free, can't hurt to check her out
14:14 <wrtlprnft> free? like Free?
14:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've looked over Mercedes Lackey's stuff, but it's all fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, not sure how you mean, wrtl.  No DRM on them
14:15 <GodTodd> didn't she work with....oh what's her name....the Pern chick.....Anne McCafferey.
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> but, no creative commons licensing and stuff
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah she's fantasy
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, but Pern got really boring
14:15 <GodTodd> yeah it did
14:15 <Lucifer_arma> I tried to read the one with the whales or dolphiins or whatever and got so bored I had to put it down
14:15 <GodTodd> but then so did Xanth
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> probably the fastest I've ever abandoned a book.
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> have you tried rereading any Xanth since you became an A-D-U-L-T?
14:16 <GodTodd> yeah
14:16 <GodTodd> tried being the operative word
14:16 <Lucifer_arma> was it still good?  heh
14:16 <GodTodd> it wasn't awful....but you have to be in a 'fart joke' mood
14:17 <wrtlprnft> g2g, cya
14:17 <Lucifer_arma> later wrtlprnft 
14:18 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is free, so I may as well try it.  I gave David Drake a try for the same reason, right?  Heh.
14:19 <GodTodd> hey...can't argue with free ;)
14:20 <Lucifer_arma> I am trying to balance it against buying the next 2 books in the Legacy of Alldenata series
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> how about Fred Saberhagen?  Ever read any of his stuff?
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> There was a guy....Chris?...back in junior high school that read all of his stuff
14:21 <Lucifer_arma> Hmmm, starts with an E?  You know the kid I"m talking about?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> lisp...braces...not the bassoon player
14:22 <GodTodd> i think so....never read saberhagen....didn't he have some series about a mouse or something?
14:22 <Lucifer_arma> a mouse.  That sounds familiar.  not the Stainless Steel Mouse, right?  Different mouse?
14:22 <GodTodd> not sure
14:23 <GodTodd> just remember something about a mouse heh
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> the stainless steel mouse is someone else, and really good stuff to boot.
14:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't argue with free, I guess.
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> still, I'd prefer not to think I've wasted my time when I could've just picked up more of the alldenata books.  :)
14:24 <Lucifer_arma> the last honor harrington book I read didn't leave me wanting for more, so I'm kinda hoping philippe will show up so I can ask him what's up with it
14:24 <GodTodd> oh..saberhagen had the Book of Swords series
14:25 <GodTodd> that's right
14:25 <GodTodd> he lives in the Querqe too
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> how about Linda Evans?
14:27 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, not interested in book of swords.  Never was, really.  Heh.
14:28 <Lucifer_arma> the problem wth the chick writers is that they're so much more fantasy than anything else, and I'd rather just pass them up completely if that's the case
14:29 <Lucifer_arma> it would be nice if someone would go through the baen free library with pointers.  Sometimes I'd rather read a summary of the book, even if the whole book is right there to read for free
14:33 <GodTodd> true
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14:36 <n54> no idea about that library you're talking about but I reccomend Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan
14:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.baen.com/library/
14:43 <n54> thanks, might read some
14:55 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8E52.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
14:57 <n54> any favourites?
14:57 <n54> (I prefer hardish df)
14:57 <n54> sf*
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15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber is really good
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> Eric Flint's fun
15:03 <Lucifer_arma> David Drake bored me, but you might give him a try.  his Tank Lord series is pretty popular, I understand.
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Dave Weber's March Up* books are really good.  
15:04 <Lucifer_arma> Of course, Honor Harrington, at least the first two.  I'm still not sure about the third...
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> and John Ringo's LEgacy of Alldenata series.  At least, the first two.  :)  I really enjoyed them both.  Well, the first was one of those "this is good but rough around the edges"
15:05 <Lucifer_arma> the second book, Gust Front, was really good and polished and stuff.
15:38 <n54> hmm I think I'll stick to short stories -- I'm too impatient :) -- but perhaps I'll look at it again later
15:50 <z-man-home> #later tell wrtlprnft what do you mean with "BUG the /msg code is broken again"?
15:50 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot err, no, that shouldn't be working.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:52 <z-man-home> #later tell joda_bot But we don't really want to restrict anyone, I just wanted to prevent accidents.
15:52 <armabot> z-man-home: The operation succeeded.
15:56 <joda_bot> z-man-home: ok
16:01 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-010-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
16:11 <Lucifer_arma> z-man-home: ok
16:16 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
16:16 <ghableska> hi
16:17 <n54> hi :)
16:17 <ghableska> hi n54
16:18 <ghableska> ugh, it's freezing today
16:18 <n54> really?
16:18 <ghableska> yes
16:18 <n54> where were you from again?
16:18 <ghableska> US
16:19 <n54> northern state then?
16:19 <ghableska> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa
16:19 <ghableska> :)
16:20 <GodTodd> whereat in IA?
16:20 <n54> ah ok
16:20 <ghableska> des moines
16:20 <ghableska> #cnn 50265
16:20 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, IA is 50�F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Wind: NW at 17 mph (27 km/h).
16:20 <ghableska> brrr
16:20 <GodTodd> ahhhh....i lived in Omaha for a few years
16:20 <ghableska> cool
16:20 <GodTodd> not really...but...yeah
16:20 <GodTodd> ;)
16:20 <ghableska> or not..
16:20 <ghableska> nebraska is boring to drive through.....
16:21 <GodTodd> even more boring to live in
16:21 <GodTodd> lol
16:21 <ghableska> miles and miles of flatness
16:21 <GodTodd> not as boring as KS tho
16:21 <ghableska> really?
16:21 <GodTodd> really
16:21 <ghableska> hmm
16:22 <ghableska> *shrugs*
16:22 <ghableska> #lart Nebraska
16:22 <ghableska> aww
16:22 <n54> wow Iowa is indeed a very flat place according to wikipedia
16:22 <GodTodd> kinda chilly here today too....only 88
16:23 <ghableska> Lucky...
16:23 <ghableska> at least iowa has farms and stuff to look at...
16:23 <ghableska> whereas nebraska has tumbleweeds
16:23 <ghableska> lol
16:24 <n54> sounds sort of like denmark, also a very flat country
16:24 <ghableska> you're from norway, right?
16:24 <n54> yup
16:25 <n54> not so flat here (the danish call us "mountain monkeys") ;D
16:25 <ghableska> lol
16:25 <n54> :)
16:27 <ghableska> wow
16:27 <ghableska> a branch just flew off a tree and hit my window XD
16:27 <n54> windy+
16:27 <n54> ?*
16:27 <ghableska> gusts...
16:28 <ghableska> hasn't started raining (yet)
16:28 <Lucifer_arma> danes = plains vikings
16:29 <ghableska> heh
16:29 <Lucifer_arma> I remember Ioway being hilly
16:32 <GodTodd> iowa and nebraska both have biggest cities that would barely rate as suburbs here :)
16:33 <ghableska> here=....?
16:33 <GodTodd> north TX
16:33 <ghableska> oh
16:33 <GodTodd> just up from Dallas
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's Dallas, come on
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> D/FW is just one big city now
16:34 <Lucifer_arma> with a few fields with cows thrown in for that country feel
16:34 <GodTodd> true...but we have to retain some of our own identity :D
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> you can try.  :)  Won't be too long before it's just one big city from San Antone all the way up to D/FW
16:35 <Lucifer_arma> it's already mostly urbanized, that drive
16:36 <GodTodd> i know
16:36 <GodTodd> hell...our side of dallas to the other side of CowTown is like 100 mi of straight city
16:38 <GodTodd> gotta go leave a dump
16:39 <n54> guess that explains why the rest of texas is pretty desolate? (according to a friend of mine)
16:39 <n54> /s/friend/aquaintance
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> only part of texas that's desolate is west texas, which is really just a fancy way of saying "New Mexico"
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
16:40 <n54> hmm ok :)
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> in my texas government class we were told that texas is 80% urbanized.
16:41 <n54> hmm
16:41 <Lucifer_arma> don't know for sure if they meant population or area in that figure
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, south of San Antonio (and the Brazos River, iirc, might be Nueces down there) and west of the hill country is pretty desolate
16:42 <Lucifer_arma> but that's only 1/3 or less of the state
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> the rest is lush, fertile land with little streams and rivers and stuff kinda webbed through it.  Can't drive more than 2 or 3 miles without driving over a low water crossing
16:43 <n54> must have meant population
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> except on the interstates, anyway, which are supposed to go over those things.  :)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> well, even the area I just described has El Paso in it, and that's one of the bigger cities in the state, bigger than Austin, even.
16:43 <n54> I meant desolate as in no people around (or barely any)
16:43 <Lucifer_arma> not that Austin is a big city, heh.
16:44 <n54> for long stretches
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> I admit I haven't been in east TExas since I was very little, usually departing to the west or north when I leave the state
16:44 <Lucifer_arma> but there's plenty of people north, and plenty south (until you get near the border)
16:45 <n54> ok those guys were probably travelling along backroads anyways
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> west texas is, ummm..  It's a place I'd rather not drive my truck for fear of running out of gas between regular gas stations.
16:45 <Lucifer_arma> signs on the interstate say "Gas 10 miles, next gas station 150 miles"
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> and the next gas station really is just that, a gas station.  Maybe with a little "museum" attached, but no little village or anything.
16:46 <Lucifer_arma> Jeez, even New Mexico has little villages around their gas stations, heh.
16:47 <n54> sounds great :)
16:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  Wyoming is fun, though
16:48 <n54> how so?
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> there's a little valley surrounded by the continental divide in the southwestern corner of wyoming
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> The Rockies go through there, of course.  :)
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> So in this little valley there's nothing but stagnant water, because none of the water flows out of the valley, and no water flows in.
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> In the middle of this valley is a gas station, and its literally the only thing in the valley.  Even the Ore Ida factory near there is outside the valley
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> 10000 feet up a mountain, I'm sure you can imagine the cost of moving significant resources to actually support people in the valley
16:49 <n54> hmm yeah
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and its desert, so there's no rain worth speaking of.  Just a big, stagnant pond.
16:50 <n54> sounds like a cesspool...
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> actually, I think that would be a perfect place to grow the algae to support a big biodiesel industry :)
16:51 <n54> hehe
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> land has to be cheap, right?  And the stagnant conditions are exactly what you want for algae-growing
16:51 <Lucifer_arma> refine it up there and move it down, energy to move up is minimal, you start with energy and then go down
16:51 <n54> I've heard of places in southern states than are dirt cheap
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> heh, my wife and I talked about inventing moisture evaporators and moving out to west texas and becoming water farmers :)
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a billboard selling a pretty decent chunk of land for $99.
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> I said "Hey, I could build a moisture evaporator and then we can sell water, become a utility"
16:52 <Lucifer_arma> (use migrant farmers and we can live in the city :)  )
16:53 <n54> I'm sure you mean condenser but yeah :)
16:53 <GodTodd> specially when they get hydrogen fuel cells going good ;)
16:55 <n54> It's going to be clean coal, a norwegian company has recently cracked the problem
16:55 <Lucifer_arma> yes, I actually mean condenser, but if I called it that, you wouldn't get the star wars reference
16:55 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
16:55  * n54 didn't get the Star Wars reference anyway :)
16:56 <GodTodd> always madness to your method, eh? ;)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> clean coal?  Um, isn't coal one of those finite resources?  Finite as in "we might actually run out of this one"?
16:56 <n54> well anything's finite depending on where you draw the line :)
16:56 <Lucifer_arma> there's always the heat death of the universe in our future, after all
16:57 <n54> exactly :)
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> but we can actually run out of coal in the next hundred years or so
16:57 <n54> ?eah
16:57 <Lucifer_arma> so how does clean coal solve the problem?
16:57 <n54> some argue the same about uranium, I
16:57 <n54> 'm not worried
16:58 <n54> it's energy most western nations have themselves, that's part of what it solves
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  well, you won't get me arguing that uranium is sustainable for energy in the long run.
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'm very interested in tapping into the biosphere for this stuff because it's renewable and has an indefinite supply, provided we don't ruin the balance required in the biosphere to keep the renewal process going
16:59 <n54> what stuff?
16:59 <Lucifer_arma> then we need only fear the heat death of the universe, but there's nothing we can do about it
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> energy.
17:00 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50870089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> See, the energy itself doesn't actually come from the biosphere, it comes from the sun.  But the algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and uses photosynthesis to separate the carbon from the oxygen
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> then it stores the carbon as oil, vegetable oil in fact.
17:00 <n54> sure I don't mind wind, water, solar whatever, but if I'm able to use coal cleanly I'll use that too
17:00 <Lucifer_arma> Which can be distilled into biodiesal
17:01 <n54> I'm not 13 :)
17:01 <n54> or 7 :)
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> wind and water, fine.  Solar has problems, not the least of which is the nasty process required to build the solar cells in the first place.
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> then there's the problem that the energy we get from solar cells is only a trickle compared to what's available.  The way I understand it, tapping plants for solar power is much more efficient.
17:02 <n54> most of the coal will burn sooner or later anyway (coal fires etc.) might as well use it sensibly
17:03 <guru3> for my birthday should i see about a new laptop or like a nokia 770?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> and we need something to electrolicize (sp?) the water into hydrogen and oxygen for the fuel cells
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> nokia 770, definitely.
17:03 <guru3> why?
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> that thing's awesome
17:03 <n54> no idea guru3, I'd probably go for a laptop but I'm not you
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, I haven't gotten one yet, so I can't speak from experience.  :)
17:03 <Lucifer_arma> it runs python and Crimson Fields.  What more do you need from a pda?
17:04 <guru3> a keyboard :/
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> available, isn't it?
17:04 <n54> I've seen some nice roll'em-up pda keyboards
17:04 <guru3> i think you have to get something via bt
17:04 <guru3> but i mean this is the birthday/graduation present
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> bt?  bittorrent?  You have a link to a .torrent for a keyboard?
17:04 <guru3> so i could probably talk my parents into like a macbook pro
17:04 <guru3> bt -> bluetooth
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> ah, right
17:05  * Lucifer_arma was hoping for a downloadable pda keyboard
17:05 <n54> if the pda can work as a tape recorder it would be great for lectures
17:05 <guru3> i don't think it has a mic
17:05 <guru3> but you can play music streams
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> it should beat the hell out of a laptop for note-taking if you can get a keyboard for it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> I think it has a mic device, you'd have to buy the attachment though.
17:05 <guru3> i've read that http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ works with it
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> don't know if it has a plug
17:06 <guru3> hmmm. the next version is supposed to support boip
17:06 <guru3> *voip
17:06 <guru3> so it must have a mic
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, the thing with laptops and school is mostly battery life.  If I didn't need my laptop for work, I'd be looking at getting a word processor, keyboard, printer, etc, for my pda
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'd still have had to plugin my pda last semester if I used it for note-taking.
17:07 <Lucifer_arma> it's only got about 3 hours of battery life
17:08 <guru3> hmm
17:08  * n54 likes his computers big and clunky, like refrigerators and such :D j/k
17:08 <guru3> heh
17:08 <Lucifer_arma> but if you could get your textbooks for it and a keyboard, what would you carry to class?  ;)
17:09 <guru3> i'd carry it anyway
17:09 <n54> a refrigerator or mini-bar?
17:09 <guru3> just like every day this year
17:09  * Lucifer_arma wants his textbooks for lecture classes on his laptop so he can grep it when the teacher asks questions
17:09 <guru3> i've had my palm, phone, and ipod on my belt
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> right.  And then a backpack or something, right?
17:09 <guru3> my mathbook has a cd with it in pdf format
17:09 <n54> nice
17:09 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, math books are no good for what I want, because I use old-fashioned pencil and paper for those classes anyway
17:09 <n54> not lugging books would be great
17:10 <Lucifer_arma> if it wasn't so much work to scan and OCR textbooks, I'd do all of them when I got them (except the math books, of course)
17:11 <n54> why not math books?
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> different kind of beast.
17:11 <n54> shouldn't be any worse than physics or chemistry imo
17:11 <Lucifer_arma> however, if the writing utensil on the Nokia 770 worked well enough, I'd gladly use it instead of pencil and paper for note taking
17:12 <guru3> aparently there is a mic
17:12 <Lucifer_arma> but I guarantee ou the writing utensil on my palm pda isn't good enough for that
17:12 <guru3> but it's also well hidden
17:12 <n54> if I had a recorder I would be very sparse on the notes
17:12 <guru3> and there's no recorder
17:13  * n54 suddenly finds himself lusting for owning a recorder lol
17:13 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> you can get a good recorder for pretty cheap
17:14 <n54> not like I would use it for anything wither lol :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> I've considered it, and I might actually do it soon
17:14 <n54> yeah... would be nice if it stored to usb though
17:14 <n54> in ogg! :D
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> the other thing I've considered is taking my digital camera to class and snapping off pics of the chalkboard during the lecture
17:14 <n54> lol that would not be distracting hehe
17:14 <Lucifer_arma> why ogg?  you don't need that kind of quality for a lecture :)
17:15 <n54> oh boy I wouldn't manage not kidding around with you if you were my pupil and did that lol
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> dude, if I went in there and did that with the camera, I guarantee you the idea would sweep the campus like wildfire
17:15 <n54> you're right it wouldn't have to be ogg
17:15 <guru3> i think that i shall ask for a 770
17:15 <guru3> i can't think of anything better
17:15 <n54> lol lucifer
17:15 <n54> either way have a happy birthday guru3 :9
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm serious!  There's so much stuff that appears in the lecture materials that people miss
17:15 <guru3> not for a couple weeks yet
17:15 <Lucifer_arma> graduation, isn't it?
17:16 <guru3> graduation & birthday are a week apart
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> ah
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> happy G&BDAY
17:16 <guru3> not yet
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> is labor day in there for you?
17:16 <guru3> don't jinx me :P
17:16 <guru3> no
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm....
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> any other days that start with L?
17:16 <Lucifer_arma> or T, for that matter?
17:17 <guru3> not that i know of
17:17 <n54> love parade day? (not real but... almost)
17:17 <Lucifer_arma> well, I just wanted to make it happy GLBT day
17:18 <guru3> you could make it then BL&T day
17:18 <guru3> bacon lettuce and tomatoe day
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> heh
17:18 <n54> doesn't sound half bad :)
17:19 <n54> l?rdag starts with l but I guess that doesn't count ;)
17:19 <guru3> no it doesn't
17:19 <n54> :)
17:20 <guru3> it might be a thurs or tues day tho
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> I don't hate you for who you are.  I just hate you because it's Thursday.
17:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, that would be a fun instant chat
17:22 <GodTodd> but it's saturday...
17:23 <Lucifer_arma> don't bother me with the facts!  You probably think it's White Boy Day
17:23  * Lucifer_arma <--- thinks True Romance is a great movie :)
17:23 <n54> if you hate me just because it's thursady I would be inclined to think you're female
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> I get accused of that a lot, actually, since verybody calls me Luci
17:24 <n54> well you know... at least we don't call you lucy :)
17:24 <GodTodd> hmm didn't even think of that ;)
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> and being black, and being gay
17:24 <Lucifer_arma> so I'm a gay black woman, apparently.
17:24 <n54> that's a good combo
17:24 <GodTodd> well those we knew :)
17:24 <n54> asl Lucy? j/k XD
17:25 <GodTodd> hey...run for president as the minority choice :D
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> sure
17:25 <n54> :)
17:25 <Lucifer_arma> think I can convince anybody I'm a gay black woman, besides arma punks?
17:25 <GodTodd> well...michael jackson tries to convince us he's a straight black man
17:25 <GodTodd> so anything's possible ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> we'd be crushed if we found out he was really a gay white woman
17:26 <n54> he's human? :O
17:26 <GodTodd> only person to be born a poor black boy and end up a rich white woman
17:26 <GodTodd> ;)
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> hey, he's making new inroads to civil rights
17:26 <Lucifer_arma> don't knock it
17:27 <n54> I wonder what messed up his life so bad
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> drugs, abuse, and a skin condition
17:27  * n54 has got a skin condition
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> now, sure, he's probably thrown a little extra money into plastic surgery along the way
17:27 <n54> perhaps I'm the new MJ?
17:27 <Lucifer_arma> along the lines of me asking the docter to throw in an extra stitch after my baby was born
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> you know, "since you're in there already...."
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> he's really got a skin condition.  But more importantly, wasn't it setting himself on fire that started the plastic surgery?
17:28 <Lucifer_arma> (my wife wasn't amused about the extra stitch joke, either)
17:29 <n54> I have absolutely no idea
17:29 <n54> I only know he was pretty decent around Thriller
17:29 <guru3> the 770 does look pretty juicy
17:29 <guru3> 3 hours of battery
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> that was after his recovery I think
17:29 <GodTodd> yeah..it was after that the pepsi torched him
17:29 <n54> acid pepsi?
17:29 <Lucifer_arma> you sure?  I thought he got torched before it
17:29 <GodTodd> not sure really
17:30 <n54> there's way too little baseball on european tv *grumbles* it's perfect out-of-my-timezone-late-night-tv :|
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson  <-- it was Thriller-era for sure
17:32 <Lucifer_arma> also, compare the pictures of him from a child to Thriller, and then to Bad
17:32 <GodTodd> yah...looks like the video was 83 and the pepsi thing was jan of 84
17:32 <GodTodd> same time roughly
17:32 <GodTodd> chicken/egg
17:32 <GodTodd> ;)
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> Although Jackson's skin color was a medium-brown color for the entire duration of his youth, his skin had been becoming paler gradually since 1982, and had become a light brown colour. This was now so noticeable the entire press, not just tabloids took out widespread coverage on it. Jackson attributed the changing skin color to vitiligo and denied rumors that he bleached his skin.[24] Another significant reason for the change in a
17:34 <Lucifer_arma> umber of surgeons' claims that Jackson has undergone multiple nasal surgeries as well as a forehead lift, thinned lips and cheekbone surgery[25], Jackson wrote in his 1988 autobiography Moon Walk that he only had two rhinoplastic surgeries and the surgical creation of a cleft in his chin, while attributing puberty and diet to the noticeable change in the structure of his face.[26]
17:35 <n54> he did a moon walk on his face
17:35 <n54> poor guy
17:37 <GodTodd> i dunno if it's natural or not....i just know that he's a hell of a lot lighter now than he was 25-30 years ago ;)
17:38 <n54> in ancient china women tied up their feet to make it look like they had small feet, in modern usa women butox their faces to make it look like they're grinning zombies XD
17:39 <GodTodd> i'm glad that my skin doesn't get paler....i've got a lot of danish blood in me...if i was any paler you'd thing i was an albino :D
17:39 <n54> :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, if n54 ever comes out of his house, he might stop looking like a viking ghost
17:40 <n54> I look like buddha :)
17:41 <n54> hey my uncle (seattle btw) has vitiligo! I just never knew the name for it
17:41 <Lucifer_arma> says Michael Jackson was diagnosed with it in 1983
17:42 <Lucifer_arma> the thing is, the 80s were pretty racist time, iirc.  And black people music had gotten quite a boost in the 70s.  The only people I remember accusing MJ of bleaching his skin were racist.
17:42 <n54> really?
17:42 <Self_Destructo> am I here?
17:42 <GodTodd> probably the KKK
17:42 <n54> no Sd you're not :)
17:42 <Self_Destructo> hehe
17:43 <GodTodd> are any of us really here?
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> and it had to be a disappointing thing to think that here was this really successful black guy, great dancer, great musician, all that stuff, he could do a lot for civil rights
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> you know, just by being successful
17:43 <n54> nope GodTodd ew're all illusions
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> then he starts turning white
17:43 <GodTodd> lol
17:43 <Lucifer_arma> so there's going to be some people saying "Look, he's just a poser".  I remember hearing the opposite claim, that he had always been white and dyed his skin to make money
17:43 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: does Van have CVS access?....
17:44 <Self_Destructo> is CVS even up?
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> then there's going to be people who fear black people having civil rights, so they go off with "he's bleaching his skin"
17:44 <GodTodd> hmmmm never heard the dying himself black thing before
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> cvs is up, you need a fresh checkout following new instructions
17:44 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
17:44  * n54 believes gun rights did more for civil rights than a lot of other stuff ref. Condolezza Rice's childhood
17:44 <Lucifer_arma> miht have just been a regional thing.  People wanted to think he sold out and that bleaching his skin was part of that
17:44 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: and where are new instructions?
17:44 <Self_Destructo> sorry, I've not been around
17:45 <guru3> good night ya'll
17:45 <n54> cya guru3 :)
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=110997
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> 'night guru3
17:45 <Self_Destructo> ty
17:45 <Lucifer_arma> basically, you use armagetronad.cvs.sourceforge.net for the machine now instead of the old name
17:46 <n54> enough about MJ let's talk Mick Jagger; is he half trout?
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> I don't care what he is, but he can wrap those sweet lips around my penis any time
17:47 <n54> puke
17:47 <Lucifer_arma> haha
17:48 <n54> I think geriatrics should be banned from doing stageshows :S
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I think Mick Jagger should be excommunicated from the human race for having the perversity to pretend he's an artist with tht crap he spits out
17:49 <n54> that's an ok second
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> it's kinda pathetic when "I don't get no....gir-lee ac-shun" is the pinnacle of your creative ability
17:50 <n54> hehe yep
17:50 <Lucifer_arma> at least Britney Spears can claim she was duped
17:50 <n54> she's a clone without an original, it was thought to be impossible but it wasn't
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> ?  she's cut from Madonna, didn't you know?
17:51 <n54> oh another geriatric...whe should stop waering spandex
17:51 <Lucifer_arma> I agree with the spandex thing, but I think Madonna's still hot
17:51 <n54> she* wearing*
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> except in Evita
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> she's not hot in Evita
17:52 <n54> I don't really but she made a few good songs somewhere inbetween it all
17:52 <Lucifer_arma> look man, I got in trouble with my mom for watching a Madonna video, that makes her alright by me
17:52 <n54> hahaha
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that goes "In the midnight hour, I can feel your power".  Is it Like a Prayer?
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> so, my wife and I are driving in the car listening to the Chipmunks sing Express Yourself, right?
17:53 <n54> no idea, whatever the one was with black crows, and also the one with the sunrise, those were good
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> My wife says "You know they never made any new chipmunks after the 60s?"
17:53 <n54> hehe the chipmunks
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> *thwack*
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> she's a smart girl, but she can be pretty dim-witted sometimes
17:54 <n54> she meant it as in actually making chipmunks? :o
17:56 <n54> oh even worse...
17:56 <n54> I got it now
17:57 <n54> it's summer & my brain is made of silicon
17:57 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, no new songs or cartoons.......
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> (had to give my son some medicine, he's got pneumonia)
17:58 <n54> ouch
17:58 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, poor kid :(
17:59 <n54> not too serious hopefully? would be in hospital if it was right?
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he'd be in a hospital if it was real serious.  He's on the couch watching bob the builder
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  So, last year my daughter got pneumonia, right?
17:59 <n54> heh I know that one "Builder Bob" 
17:59 <n54> ok
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> My sister in law came over to paint her room, then my wife gets a call from the school nurse and takes my daughter to the emergency room
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> where they diagnose the pneumonia
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> so my wife calls home, where my mother in law and sister in law are babysitting the other two kids (I was out at the time, but making my way home)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> and she tells them, so when I call, they tell me, and I'm on my way in, right?
18:01 <n54> I'm with you
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> When I get there, my sister in law is *still* painting my daughter's room
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> !?!?  wtf?  Paint fumes, pneumonia, it's not hard to understand.
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she threw a little attitude when I told her to stop.
18:01 <n54> hmm not sure, I thought pneumonia was almost always cold-related? as in temperature shifts and wetness
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> she's still mad at me, I think.  :)
18:01 <n54> :)
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's fluid in the lungs
18:02 <n54> yes
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> to put it simply.  And usually starts with something else, like a cold or the flu or something.  Ear infection.  That sort of thing.
18:02 <n54> yup
18:02 <GodTodd> luckily i don't have a sister in law ;)
18:03 <n54> I've had one once, she was a better person than the x-gf
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  More specifically, you don't have a stupid stuck up conceited aristocratic sister-in-law
18:03 <n54> nope sure don't
18:03 <GodTodd> tomaytoe--tomahtoe
18:03 <Lucifer_arma> that's what I'm saddled with.  My wife's working class family acts like aristocracy, but her family that actually is aristocracy acts like working class.  It's very strange.
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I've just got my expections reversed
18:04 <GodTodd> sounds very....dysfunctional ;)
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh
18:04 <n54> no it's perfectly normal :)
18:04 <n54> real posh never is posh
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> on her father's side they're real American aristocracy, family came to america with the pilgrims and all, and can trace their lineage to British nobility
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> on her mother's side, they're mostly white trash, but across the board they pulled themselves up, so they're mostly self-made people
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> weird stuff.
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> but what do I know?  I'm just a simple peasant.  :)
18:05 <GodTodd> then there's your side ;)
18:06 <n54> ah "self-made" has a tendency to include "sickly arrogant snobbery" not as a rule but often
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'm improperly labeling more of her family bad than I should.  It's mostly her mom and sister and a few cousins and aunts, really.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> she's got a couple of aunts, an uncle, and a coupe of cousins that are downright wonderful people
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> but it only takes one bad apple....blahblahblah
18:07 <GodTodd> self made usually leads to delusions of grandeur in that you think you're better than others because you raised out of the squallor and made something of yourself....usually leads to bitterness and egotism because 'nobody gave me nothin' and I made it anyways' ;)
18:07 <GodTodd> not always but as a general rule
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, hmm. chicken and egg.  Were you bipolar before, is that why you became successful?  Or did you become bipolar as a result of becomin successful?
18:08 <n54> yeah it seems like that has a tendency to happen, but I should say anything at all really as I'm an ultimate loser myself :)
18:08 <n54> lol
18:08 <n54> shouldn't*
18:08 <GodTodd> yep....chicken/egg....although we all know the egg came first :P
18:08 <GodTodd> lol
18:08 <Lucifer_arma> nah, you're just another army kid that got fucked over and lied to by his government
18:09 <n54> right egg did come first, it's really the only logical answer
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> loser implies the actual intent
18:09 <n54> who me?
18:09 <GodTodd> dinosaurs laid eggs
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> yeah you
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> didn't you say the ME or whatever more than likely came from some inoculation they forced on you during your forced service?
18:10 <n54> you've got it wrong :) (btw I still am an officer)
18:10 <n54> no it was before that
18:11 <n54> and there's no real substantial evidence yet as to the inoculation having a connecting, just the most likely explanation
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> ?  didn't you say only army personnel were at risk over this incident?  Or was it really something they hit kids in general with?
18:11 <GodTodd> hmmm...i knew some pretty cut and dried losers in HS that i'm pretty sure didn't intend it that way....
18:11 <n54> no sorry we must have mixed something up if you think so
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't know that I need substantial evidence to believe something.  :)  People believe crazy things on a lot less than "most likely explanation"
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably just mixed up.  :)
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I think I was studying when you were telling the story, so only paying part attention
18:12 <n54> it's ok I think I mentioned those two things together but not intending for there to be a direct link (because there really is non)
18:12 <n54> none*
18:13 <n54> anyway I stopped wotking there for a reason so I don't particularily mind (damned hobo army full of idiots) - still have friends there though
18:14 <n54> typing isn't my thing today it seems - sorry :S
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Todd, there's a kid at my school that looks and walks just like you'd expect a 31-year old Jason McWhirter to look and walk
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> it's spooky.  I keep expecting him to walk up to me and say "Did you find my game yet?"
18:14 <GodTodd> blah....grew up around too many damned military people....;)
18:14 <GodTodd> lol
18:14 <n54> bad conscience?
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> probably, heh
18:15 <GodTodd> didn't he get busted for credit card fraud a few years ago?
18:15 <n54> you nicked it?
18:15 <GodTodd> wonder if he thinks his mom's still a virgin heh
18:15 <n54> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> no, ummm, I borrowed it.  Right?  Then he did something, I forget, pissed me off, and I was a spiteful little brat
18:15 <n54> figures ;)
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> arranged to meet him somewhere and give it to him, when he didn't show up, I set it on the table and left
18:15 <GodTodd> lol
18:15 <Lucifer_arma> and it disappeared, nobody knows what happened to it
18:15 <n54> the aliens ate it
18:16 <GodTodd> he tried getting me busted on local bbses around there once
18:16 <Lucifer_arma> but for like 2 months, everytime he saw me he'd ask me where it is
18:16 <n54> he probably has it at home
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> he was a nice kid, really, but he was one of those kids who got treated badly for being dumb and generally looking and acting like a ummm
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> what's the word
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> defective person, that's it
18:17 <GodTodd> defective....hmmmm....very.....diplomatic :)
18:17 <n54> I guess he meant retard
18:17 <Lucifer_arma> I thought it was odd that he only ever talked about one set of grandparents.
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, he was more functional than "retard" implies
18:18 <n54> oh ok
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> and loyal as hell.
18:18 <GodTodd> that game wasn't Battle Chess was it?
18:18 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't even remember what it was.  I didn't even want to borrow it, but he loved it and wanted me to see it.
18:18 <GodTodd> yeah...he was loyal....didn't care really how anyone treated him....was kinda sad really
18:18 <n54> heh I recently dl'ed battle chess out of nostalgia, it's didn't really stand up to the memories
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> haha, no, turns out battle chess was a pretty sucky game, doesn't it?
18:19 <n54> absolutely
18:19 <GodTodd> haven't played it in years
18:19 <GodTodd> lol
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> check out UAE, the Unworking AMiga Emulator
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> then you have to google for disc images, but they're out there
18:19 <Lucifer_arma> got silent service II on my hard drive here :)
18:20 <n54> I found it as a torrented ms exe, tiny thing
18:20 <GodTodd> unworking, huh?
18:20 <GodTodd> ;)
18:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, it works now.  obviously it got the name before it worked.
18:20 <GodTodd> obviously
18:20 <GodTodd> :D
18:21 -!- Vanhayes [n=vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034179201.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:21 <Lucifer_arma> there's a pretty good archon clone for Linux
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> I'd kinda like to see an openGL-based archon clone.  I'll be we could use arma to build one.  :)
18:22 <n54> hmm since you two obviously are about my age; do you remember the name of a game that was based on changing the color of lines of a grid by moving "you"? might have been on a spectrum but I'm not sure and haven't found anything through google
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> qix?
18:22 <n54> no that's the "uncovering" game isn't it?
18:22 <Lucifer_arma> was it where you had to section off a game grid that contained a weird line pattern that moved around and electrocuted you?
18:23 <n54> nope
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> platform?
18:23 <n54> I think spectrum but I'm really not sure
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> if it was a PC game with no amiga/c64 version, I don't know
18:23 <n54> ok
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, spectrum
18:23 <n54> only played it in a store you see and I was too small to worry about names
18:23 <Lucifer_arma> is that one of the european computers that never made it to the US?  :)
18:24 <n54> hmm possibly although it would surprise me slightly
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute, arcade game?
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> did it use a trackball?
18:24 <n54> tv
18:24 <n54> joystick
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> might have been based on an older arcade game whose name escapes me
18:24 <n54> must have been early 80ies
18:24 <Lucifer_arma> one of the original vector graphics games, predecessor to star wars
18:25 <n54> no worries, just had to ask, had a coworker who knew what it was and digged up some obsolete c code for it but I'e lost it years ago and forgot the name
18:25 <Lucifer_arma> it had a paddle and a trackball version in the arcade, but I think its clones were joystick-based
18:25 <n54> actually I don't think it was vector but it was extremely simple
18:26 <Lucifer_arma> Tempest
18:26 <n54> just a grid and two moving dots (you and an enemy) and you had to recolor the grid by moving along it without getting caught
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like tempest
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=T&game_id=10065
18:27 <Lucifer_arma> scroll down a ways to screenshots
18:28 <n54> nope sorry :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, don't know then, sorry
18:29 <n54> no problem :)
18:29 <Lucifer_arma> is it more similar to the dots game you play on paper?
18:29 <n54> hmm not sure what game you're referring to
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> a grid of dots, each turn you get to draw one line.  When you close a box, you put your initials in the box
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> when the grid is full, the one with the most boxes wins
18:30 <n54> nope
18:30 <Lucifer_arma> I played a game that's similar to what you described, derived from the dots game, on the c64 a long time ago
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> my brother and I used to play it together a lot.  You'd go around the edge of the square, then you hit the button and point the joystick in a direction and go
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> out in the middle, right?
18:31 <n54> yeah it might have been c64 since the coworker dug some code up
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> then the game would send enemies to attack you, and you need to get back to the safe part.  If you go back on your trail, you die, so you get back to the safe part a different way
18:31 <n54> uhh no that doesn't sound like tit to me
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> in the process tracing a polygon in the square.  When closed, it's colored with your color
18:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's also a qix derivative :)
18:32 <n54> only the lines shift color and it's a quadratic grid and you can follow the grid in any direction (where you'e travelled the color changes)
18:33 <n54> fill all with your color and you get a new level
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember such a game.  I've just given you the line-drawing games I can remember.  :)
18:33 <n54> no problem :)
18:33 <Lucifer_arma> might find it on the list of video games site I linked, though
18:34 <n54> yeah I've looked but no luck so far, started googeling c64 stuff
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> I really want to make arma play like Ebonstar :)
18:36 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that site's just coin-operated video games :(
18:37 <n54> yup
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.lemonamiga.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php%3Fid%3D1563
18:38 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, that's a tron font!
18:38 <n54> never played that one
18:39 <n54> I can make tons of fonts like that ;)
18:39 <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> that was an awesome game
18:39 <n54> but yeah it's nice
18:39 <Self_Destructo> can anyone translate that?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> german?
18:39 <Lucifer_arma> #list google
18:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
18:39 <n54> attack-something can not attack the world/be? ----
18:39 <Self_Destructo> I'm guessing, I don't know
18:40 <n54> something you hear point-something of attackers
18:40 <Self_Destructo> n54: it would be something of that sort
18:40 <n54> I don't really know any german so :s :D
18:40 <Lucifer_arma> no germans active atm
18:40 <Self_Destructo> nope
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe he'll answer, maybe he won't, heh
18:41 <n54> I can use my dictionary if you want to
18:41 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft 
18:41 <Self_Destructo> Attack goal cannot be attacked, because of to high score of the aggressor.
18:42 <Self_Destructo> ok, I got it
18:42 <Self_Destructo> :)
18:42 <n54> ah
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know what that means too :)
18:42 <n54> I should learn german
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> fick mich
18:42 <n54> lol
18:42 <Self_Destructo> kinda dumb for one little phrase to be in german when the whole rest of the site is in english
18:42 <Lucifer_arma> haha
18:43  * n54 thinks luci is a eastern german prostitute that married herself to a greencard :P
18:44 <GodTodd> din din time :)
18:44 <n54> din din+
18:44 <n54> ?*
18:45 <Self_Destructo> din din = a childish way of saying dinner time
18:46 <n54> ah ok
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> gay black east german prostitute, that is
18:50 <n54> you would be surprised at how common that is! XD
18:50 <n54> j/k :)
18:50 <Lucifer_arma> heh, Self_Destructo.  He's got small kids in his house and he's still in newlywed mode
18:52 <n54> lucky him :)
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I need a zone that applies acceleration due to gravity to game objects
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> then I need a death zone, smaller, that I can put in the middle
18:53 <n54> for the ebonstar thingy?
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> the one that does acceleration needs to render as a warped funnel in the grid floor, and the death zone should fit inside the bottom of the funnel
18:53 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> then a game object that is a ship, takes light cycle controls but applies them differently
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> break is thrust, and turn commands just spin it, like asteroids controls
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> and a fire button.  That's it.
18:54 <Lucifer_arma> um, the shots need to bounce whoever they hit, and there can only be one shot per player at a time.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> the idea, then, is to use the shots to push the other players into the hole.  The last man standing is the winner.
18:55 <Lucifer_arma> I think you got points for hits, too.  Hmmm, don't remember victory conditions exactly.
18:56 <Lucifer_arma> it ws a cool game, though.  If you aimed well, you could slingshot a shot around the ebonstar and hit someone on the other side :)
19:11 <n54> hah I found it!  but I'm positive I must have played an earlier version (no way it was on dos) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapper
19:13  * n54 doesn't remember the encosed rectangles lighting up
19:14 <n54> enclosed*
19:16 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: I need the two files for the rotator again...
19:22 <wrtlprnft> okok, where do i start?
19:22 <wrtlprnft> #last --with Angriffsziel
19:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [18:39:26] <Self_Destructo> Angriffsziel kann nicht angegriffen werden, wegen zu hoher Punktzahl des Angreifers.
19:22 <wrtlprnft> Target (of the attack) can't be attacked bacause of the enemie's too high score
19:23 <Self_Destructo> hrm
19:24 <Self_Destructo> the translater made it sound like my score was too high, not thiers
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man-home never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> #later tell z-man never mind, read the next BUG... I was trying to msg the user "me" and it said too many matches found, which isn't supposed to happen anymore. It took me a while to realize that "me" already left
19:24 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:24 <wrtlprnft> their score is too high, definitely
19:24 <wrtlprnft> uh, what two files?
19:24 <wrtlprnft> they are all in CVS
19:25 <Lucifer_arma> yay, found a disk image for ebonstar finally :)
19:25 <wrtlprnft> and Vanhayes doesn't have CVS access, but it looks like anonymous CVS is up and running again, so he can use that
19:25 <wrtlprnft> hope that's it :)
19:26 <n54> :)
19:26 <wrtlprnft> interesting conversations about "K�sek�stchen" there
19:26 <wrtlprnft> K�sek�stchen = German name for the game you were talking about
19:29 <n54> hmm I see two ?'s
19:29 <n54> ebonstar or gapper?
19:29 <wrtlprnft> those are a with two dots over them
19:29 <n54> thank you :)
19:29 <n54> K?sek?stchen?
19:30 <n54> what does it mean? :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> Kasekastchen, but with .. over the a's
19:30 <n54> ok I got it right then :)
19:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, something like cheese boxes, if you translate it word by word
19:31 <n54> strange name :)
19:31 <Self_Destructo> wrtl,tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x16faf): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewRound()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> tmp\Armagetron___Win32_Release\armagetronad\src\tron\gGame.o:gGame.cpp:(.text+0x17da9): undefined reference to `gRotation::HandleNewMatch()'
19:31 <Self_Destructo> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:32 <Self_Destructo> same error as last time
19:32 <Self_Destructo> and you gave me 2 files, IIRC
19:32 <wrtlprnft> you need to make a new checkout using the new server
19:32 <Self_Destructo> er....
19:32 <n54> found a screenshot but it's obciously the dos version and not the one I played
19:32 <n54> http://www.dosgamezone.com/gapper/
19:32 <Self_Destructo> i did do a total download of the CVS all over again
19:33 <wrtlprnft> do you have a src/tron/gRotation.cpp?
19:33 <Self_Destructo> arg
19:33 <Self_Destructo> nvm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> umm
19:33 <Self_Destructo> it's not been added to the project
19:33 <wrtlprnft> you need to tell codeblocks to compile it though
19:33 <wrtlprnft> then add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> i can't add it
19:33 <wrtlprnft> we need one of joda or z-man to do that
19:34 <Self_Destructo> send them a note then, please
19:36 <wrtlprnft> #later tell joda_bot can you add src/tron/gRotation.* to the codeblocks project file and commit? I don't know how to do that and Self_Destructo can't committ
19:36 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
19:36 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: well, you can add the files locally i guess, you just won't be able to committ the changes
19:37 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got it
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wow, that's an awesome game
19:38 <n54> gapper?
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> ?  oh, ummm, ebonstar
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> finally found a disk imge of it
19:38 <n54> hehe :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> install uae and I can give you a kickstart rom and a disk image and you can see it for yourself
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, gotta go make dinner
19:38 <n54> cya :)
19:38 <wrtlprnft> cya
19:42 <wrtlprnft> spidey: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:42 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: you're up for a match against AW on wednesday, 8PM CDT?
19:45 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: maybe
19:47 <wrtlprnft> we need some kickass players for that...
19:48 <wrtlprnft> ota, spidey, Self_Destructo, me, and someone else, ee or miro and we might have a chance
19:49 <spidey> wrtl,what's that central time?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> GMT-5
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 13:00GMT
19:50 <wrtlprnft> no
19:50 <wrtlprnft> so 15:00GMT
19:50 <spidey> i'm not good with time zones
19:50 <wrtlprnft> me neither
19:50 <spidey> you know when it is eastern time?
19:50 <spidey> they're +1 hour 
19:50 <wrtlprnft> summer or winter time?
19:50 <spidey> ummm
19:51 <spidey> summer
19:51 <spidey> shit
19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:51 <wrtlprnft> better
19:51 <spidey> how many hours?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> that's my time
19:51 <spidey> lol
19:51 <n54> lol :D http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/09/home-defense/
19:51 <wrtlprnft> 19:51 <spidey> it's 7:51 now
19:52 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:52 <spidey> :p
19:52 <spidey> is it day or night time?
19:52 <wrtlprnft> uh
19:52 <wrtlprnft> evening
19:52 <spidey> k
19:52 <wrtlprnft> you can se that from the 19:51 :D
19:53 <spidey> like i said,i'm not good with times :p
19:53 <wrtlprnft> I've heard some people here call 24h format "military time"
19:53 <spidey> i wouldn't know what time it was my-time if there wasn't a clock in every room
19:53  * wrtlprnft has a watch on 24/7
19:53 <n54> 24hrs time is the only time :)
19:54 <wrtlprnft> and, uh, on my screen there are 5 clocks visible right now
19:54 <n54> :)
19:54 <spidey> i have 1 on my screen
19:54 <wrtlprnft> but one is from my server in munich, so it shows the local time there
19:54 <spidey> and it's usually wrong
19:54 <wrtlprnft> let's see
19:54 <spidey> cmos going out :<
19:54 <n54> I'd like more than one but haven't figured it out on kde
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is in this terminal window from the screen session
19:54  * n54 hasn't really tried either
19:54 <wrtlprnft> one is getting displayed by IRSSI session in its status line
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is next to the last chat line
19:55 <spidey> question
19:55 <spidey> why you need so many clocks? lol
19:55 <wrtlprnft> one is on the kicker bar, and it's saying fancy things like "Five to eight"
19:55 <wrtlprnft> and one is in the screen session i have running on my server and am accessing over SSH
19:55 <n54> I'd like to have to avoid having to do maths to figure out other timezones :)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> there is no real need for them, they're just kinda unavoidable
19:56 <wrtlprnft> IRSSI needs that status line anyways, so why not put a clock there?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> and screen has one as well for convienience (tabs) and there's enough space for a clock
19:56 <spidey> wrtl,so the match is in 24hours right?
19:56 <wrtlprnft> no
19:56 <spidey> >.>
19:57 <wrtlprnft> there's 2 matches now
19:57 <wrtlprnft> one is tomorrow
19:57 <spidey> k
19:57 <wrtlprnft> let me calculate the time
19:58 <wrtlprnft> one is in 19 hours
19:58 <spidey> k,sec
19:58 <wrtlprnft> and the other one is in exactly four days
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 4*24
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 4 * 24 = 96
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 96 hours
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 96-19
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 96 - 19 = 77
19:58 <spidey> so
19:58 <wrtlprnft> or 77 hours after the match tomorrow
19:58 <spidey> 4pm my time
19:58 <spidey> ?
19:58 <wrtlprnft> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> 'er
19:59 <spidey> ye
19:59 <spidey> aa
19:59 <spidey> 3pm
19:59 <spidey> to many damn timezones >.>
19:59 <spidey> i'll try to be awake by then :s
20:02 <Self_Destructo> umm, who won today?
20:02 <spidey> 0:08:41
20:02 <spidey> 	A hostile fleet from NeoSheikZ write message from planet Dream Killer [3:453:6] is approaching planet Cyborg [3:459:5]. Its mission is: Attack.
20:02 <spidey> :<
20:02 <spidey> 8 minutes
20:02 <spidey> :s
20:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: noone won yet
20:05 <wrtlprnft> match is tomorrow 3PM CDT
20:05 <Self_Destructo> ah
20:05 <wrtlprnft> you can come?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> it moved :)
20:06 <spidey> who's it against wrtl?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> first one is against 8T, second one AW
20:06 <spidey> you got a link as to who's in 8T?
20:06 <wrtlprnft> the 8T one is just for fun, it doesn't count for the spoon
20:07 <spidey> k
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from jota_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6647 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> #last --from joda_bot --with wiki.arma
20:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 6648 messages.
20:07 <wrtlprnft> blah
20:07 <spidey> k,well i'ma need practice for the AW,i been playing soldat to much :<
20:07 <spidey> alot of practice
20:07 <spidey> heh
20:07 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Talk:8th_Team#Availability_Match_vs._MBC
20:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey: wanna go sumo/fortress?
20:09 <wrtlprnft> my browser tab bar now has 6 rows... something is telling me i have too many tabs open
20:09 <spidey> sure,gimme 1 minute,i'm getting attacked on ogame
20:09 <spidey> lol
20:09 <spidey> 6rows? lol
20:09 <wrtlprnft> tell me when/where :D
20:09 <spidey> i rarely get more than 7 tabs
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol, my normal is 22
20:10 <wrtlprnft> rows or tabs?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> never had multiple rows
20:10 <wrtlprnft> 31 tabs right now and growing
20:10 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:10  * wrtlprnft is doing too much multitasking
20:10 <Self_Destructo> umm
20:10 <n54> too much porn! :D j/k
20:11 <Self_Destructo> 35 tabs and can't open any more
20:11 <spidey> wtf
20:11 <Self_Destructo> no such thing as multiple rows in firefox i guess
20:11 <spidey> sd....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> 14 are tron related in some way
20:11 <spidey> tell me what this means sd
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <spidey> someone attacked me right?
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> ...
20:11 <wrtlprnft> .....
20:11 <Self_Destructo> .........
20:11 <wrtlprnft> aww, no pattern?
20:12 <Self_Destructo> .................................................................................................................................................................................................
20:12 <spidey> ok i sent them a message saying i sent everything off and to attack would be useless
20:12 <Self_Destructo> a dotted line
20:12 <spidey> so when it says they attacked
20:12 <Self_Destructo> I'm running outta dots
20:12 <Self_Destructo> gota get another bag
20:12 <wrtlprnft> lol
20:12 <spidey> nothing happened,no message,nothin
20:12 <spidey> :/
20:12 <n54> :)
20:12 <Self_Destructo> heh, wierd
20:13 <spidey> ohh
20:13 <spidey> i refreshed to fast
20:13 <spidey>  The attacker has won the battle!
20:13 <spidey> He captured
20:13 <spidey> 12 metal, 6 crystal, and 0 deuterium
20:13 <spidey> The attacker lost a total of 60000 units.
20:13 <spidey> The defender lost a total of 2782000 units.
20:13 <spidey> At these space coordinates now float 12000 metal and 12600 crystal. 
20:13 <wrtlprnft> what would you want with 2H?
20:13 <wrtlprnft> *to do
20:15 <Self_Destructo> Points	17796 (Rank 1790 of 5989)
20:15 <spidey>  Points	16103 (Rank 1842 of 5989
20:15 <wrtlprnft> dang opera crashed after 4 days...
20:15 <spidey> i imagin that'll go down once the defense losss takes affect
20:15 <wrtlprnft> i wanted to break my record of a week :(
20:16 <n54> yeah, seems to me opera doesn't like having lots of tabs open
20:16 <spidey> heh,i got 11 IPM's
20:16 <spidey> i think i'll just direct them to that guy instead
20:17 <wrtlprnft> well, it did just fine for a long time
20:17 <Self_Destructo> hehe
20:17 <wrtlprnft> and it's a beta, so i don't expect perfectness
20:17 <Self_Destructo> i got 10
20:17 <Self_Destructo> all i can hold
20:17 <Self_Destructo> 20 anti's
20:18 <spidey> http://www.microbuscity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=88101#88101
20:18 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: the longest I've ever had windows open at one time is something around 10 days
20:18 <wrtlprnft> mathias@laptop 255 $ uptime                                                   ~ 20:18:46 up 7 days, 18 min, 13 users,  load average: 0.24, 0.17, 0.12
20:19 <wrtlprnft> mathias@butler $ uptime                                                       ~ 03:19:10 up 22 days,  3:25,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
20:19 <spidey> k wrtl,fortress?
20:19 <wrtlprnft> kk
20:19 <spidey> cya there
20:24 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
20:24 <ghableska> hi
20:25 <n54> hi again :9
20:25 <ghableska> :)
20:25 <ghableska> it's quiet....
20:25 <ghableska> ;)
20:25 <n54> you somehow miss a lot of the talking
20:26  * ghableska goes deaf
20:26 <n54> yikes lol
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> that was convenient.  Kubuntu has a package for UAE :)
20:27  * n54 hands out earplugs
20:27 <ghableska> :)
20:27 <Self_Destructo> hi
20:27 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:27 <ghableska> hi
20:28  * n54 wonders if the makers of UAE happens to be from UAE and that if so it explains UAE being named UAE :)
20:28 <ghableska> o_0
20:28 <n54> :D
20:29 <n54> would be funny :)
20:29 <ghableska> very
20:31  * Self_Destructo is printing a 650 page book
20:31 <n54> :o
20:31 <ghableska> what book?
20:31 <Self_Destructo> a C++ book
20:31 <Self_Destructo> the only time i get to read it will be at home
20:32 <n54> gah I've done stuff like that, if it hadn't been at work I would ahve been better off just buying it
20:33 <Self_Destructo> same here
20:33 <Self_Destructo> i just buy the paper and take it to the printer and they bind it...
20:34 <Self_Destructo> make it worth it
20:34 <n54> oh
20:34 <Self_Destructo> makes*
20:35 <Self_Destructo> 650 peices of paper is hard to keep in order unless it's bound ;)
20:35 <n54> i used what's-it-called... binders? no hmm
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yeah, i got one...
20:36 <n54> you know the stuff you punch holes in the paper to use
20:36 <n54> is it binders?
20:36 <Self_Destructo> kinda hard to punch all the holes into it though
20:36 <Self_Destructo> yes
20:36 <n54> oh... and yes :)
20:37 <Self_Destructo> easier for them just to get a big punch an punch all 650 sheets st the same time
20:37 <n54> yeah
20:37 <Self_Destructo> and they'll cover it
20:37 <n54> and probably print on both sides of the paper etc.
20:37 <Self_Destructo> nah, I'm doing the printing :)
20:38 <n54> hehe ok
20:38 <Self_Destructo> and yes, i do print on both sides :)
20:38 <n54> it's going to be a monster lol
20:38 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:38 <Self_Destructo> man it is getting hot in here
20:38 <Self_Destructo> the laser printer puts off alot of heat
20:38 <n54> :)
20:39 <Self_Destructo> 500 sheets of paper is app. 3 inch thick, lol
20:39 <n54> yeah at least
20:40 <n54> some of the monster manuals I've come across had ultrathin paper 
20:40 <Self_Destructo> yeah
20:41 <Self_Destructo> if I could have found thinner paper I would have gottne it, but I couldn't
20:44 <n54> yeah I don't think it's easily available
20:44 <n54> I've never found it at least
20:54 <Self_Destructo> well, the printer would have a hard time picking it up too, I'm sure
20:55 <n54> yeah
20:55 <n54> I wonder how those kinds of paper are printed anyways, guess it must be some special stuff they use
20:56 <Self_Destructo> probably
20:59 <Self_Destructo> wow, what a book!
21:00 <n54> :D
21:04 <Self_Destructo> 50 more odd pages to print
21:04 <Self_Destructo> then do the even side :)
21:05 <spidey> my fridge is so cold,the coke is like a slushy
21:06 <n54> lol spidey
21:06 <spidey> seriously
21:06 <spidey> i didn't even have to put ice in it
21:06 <spidey> it was already in it xD
21:07 <Self_Destructo> lol
21:07 <Self_Destructo> i think you need to turn it up then
21:09 <n54> this one is for armabot :) http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
21:09 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
21:16 <Self_Destructo> GRRRRRRRRR
21:16 <Self_Destructo> i got a paper jam
21:16 <n54> rawr?
21:17 <n54> yeah you're bound to have a few of those
21:20 <Self_Destructo> kinda puts a kink in the smoothness
21:21 <n54> yup
21:31 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: wow 600 pages... that's a lot
21:31 <wrtlprnft> I kinda read through it while programming my stuff
21:32 <wrtlprnft> probably a bad idea since i ended up reorganizing everytime i found out some new "gimmik" of c++
21:32 <n54> both ways are good imo, it takes time to digest any way you do it
21:32 <wrtlprnft> and i still know what a factory is and didn't find a good tutorial
21:34 <wrtlprnft> *And i still don't know
21:34  * wrtlprnft should dropping words
21:34  * wrtlprnft should stop dropping words
21:35 <n54> I've never heard of factory in relation to code either
21:35 <n54> :D wrtlprnft
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern
21:36 <n54> thanks
21:36 <wrtlprnft> but that seems to be java, not c++
21:36 -!- spidey [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:37 <n54> yes
21:38 <wrtlprnft> http://gsraj.tripod.com/design/creational/factory/factory.html
21:38 <wrtlprnft> that one looks promising
21:39 <wrtlprnft> which adds another tab of stuff i wanna read one day
21:39 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: yeah, it's big
21:39 <Self_Destructo> i can't stand to read a book on the computer
21:39 <Self_Destructo> dad does it all the time though
21:40 <wrtlprnft> i kinda read it in many small chuncs
21:40 <wrtlprnft> if i sat in front of a school computer and was bored i would just read a chapter of it
21:41 <n54> still java, perhaps it isn't relevant to other oo languages?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> if the librarian wasn't looking i printed it out and read it in class :D
21:41 <n54> sometimes I hate reading on the computer, sometimes I don't
21:41 <wrtlprnft> wait a sec, that's java? 
21:41 <wrtlprnft> oops
21:41 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
21:41 <n54> :)
21:41 <wrtlprnft> it appeared in a search term that contained c++, so i just assumed it was c++
21:42 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_method_pattern#Uses_of_Factory_Method
21:42 <wrtlprnft> > In Qt, QMainWindow::createPopupMenu is a factory method declared in a framework which can be overridden in application code.
21:42 <wrtlprnft> so it has to be relevant for c++ somehow
21:42 <n54> mm yeah
21:42 <wrtlprnft> but that linked page doesn't say a lot to me
21:43 <wrtlprnft> which is understandable, it's just source doku
21:43 <wrtlprnft> or API doku
21:43 <n54> or it could be it's just called something else, sometimes that's the case I guess
21:44 <wrtlprnft> I think I have an idea how you'd do that in c++, but i don't see a real use
21:44 <wrtlprnft> i guess i have to read that java page after all :(
21:44 <n54> seems reuse-focused to me but well I don't really know
21:45 <n54> might simply be rare :)
21:45 <wrtlprnft> might appear useless to me because it doesn't solve the problem i still have in my mind and didn't find an appropiate solution yet
21:45 <wrtlprnft> http://my.opera.com/tarquinwj/homes/albums/45511/1IE4.png
21:46 <wrtlprnft> IE4 and acid2... looks interesting
21:46 <Self_Destructo> crap
21:46 <Self_Destructo> somehow it got ten pages off
21:46 <wrtlprnft> well
21:46 <wrtlprnft> read them on- screen
21:47 <Self_Destructo> well, it's easy 345 flip over 356 :)
21:48 <Self_Destructo> I'm not sure how it woulda got mixed up though :/
21:48 <wrtlprnft> have fun with your book :D
21:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, it looks like it is going to be intertaining :)
21:49 <n54> had no idea Konqueror passes acid2, perhaps I should switch to it
21:49 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090B7BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:50 <wrtlprnft> opera 9B1 does too :)
21:50 <n54> yeah I might use that on the windows box
21:51 <wrtlprnft> oh, and some post-2.0 branch of firefox does, but it's horribly messed up
21:51 <n54> ok I doubt I'll try that then ;)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/#mozilla
21:54 <n54> hopefully it wont be too long then
21:55 <n54> one day perhaps I can enjoy making compliant webpages again :)
21:56 <wrtlprnft> well, the real obstacle is IE
21:56 <wrtlprnft> ah, there we go
21:57 <wrtlprnft> stupid gaim is having all those stupid dependencies
21:57 <wrtlprnft> gone
21:57 <n54> yes true but the final drop for me wass usually making it look the same on opera as on mozilla and ie - in the end I couldn't take it anymore lol
21:57 <n54> was*
21:57 <wrtlprnft> huh?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> i never had big problems with opera, FF and konqueror
21:58 <wrtlprnft> just minor fixes, usually my fault
21:58 <wrtlprnft> although FF had some annoying bugs
21:58 <n54> I suaually managed to make a standardscomplliant page look just about exactly the same in ie and mozilla but opera would all kinds of quirky stuff (this was a while ago, I stopped doing anything)
21:58 <wrtlprnft> and konqueror is really great unless you wanna style form items
21:59 <wrtlprnft> then it becomes a mess
21:59 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:59 <wrtlprnft> if you're talking pre- opera7 i can understand that
21:59 <n54> hmm it might have been as said it was a while ago
22:00 <n54> how many years since 6.8?
22:00 <wrtlprnft> 6.8?
22:00 <n54> yeah I think it might have been *looks it up*
22:00 <Self_Destructo> n54: LOL good one - talking about the link
22:01 <wrtlprnft> opera7 was releases jan 2003
22:01 <Self_Destructo> http://www.365tomorrows.com/04/01/my-angel-gabriel/
22:01 <n54> hehe the story?
22:01 -!- spider [n=spider@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
22:01 <wrtlprnft> *released
22:01 <n54> yeah :)
22:01 <n54> hmm ok wrtlprnft
22:03 <n54> might actually have been 7-something but it's not important :)
22:03 <n54> they're at the front now :)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> interesting story that one Self_Destructo 
22:04 <n54> yeah
22:04 <wrtlprnft> 7-something is still old :)
22:04  * n54 is bot a bot :D
22:04 <wrtlprnft> but it was a huge jump
22:04 <n54> uh... not*
22:04 <wrtlprnft> lol
22:05 <n54> :)
22:05 <wrtlprnft> opera 6 was the first version i had... i kept it for a while after 7 came out since i didn't like the new version
22:06 <n54> yeah I probably did the same
22:06 <wrtlprnft> new look (didn't know about skins and there was no really good opera6 skin anyways) and there was no emeil notification window
22:06 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p50908E20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:06 <wrtlprnft> i used to have a wondow open every time i got a mail
22:06 <wrtlprnft> *window
22:06 <wrtlprnft> if i did that now i would be clicking all the time
22:06 <n54> never used opera for mail myself
22:06 <wrtlprnft> heh. i love opera's mail client
22:07 <n54> :)
22:07 <wrtlprnft> more than 50000 messages now and a keyword search takes about a second before the first results show up
22:07 <wrtlprnft> incremental, of course
22:07 <n54> I want to set up qmail some time and probably squirrelmail too
22:08 <n54> I used squirrel at uni years ago and liked it a lot
22:08  * wrtlprnft doesn't like webmail interfaces
22:08 <n54> I kind of agree but squirrel was different imo
22:10 <n54> anyway qmail is probably what I really want, then whatever client I use probably wont matter as long as I make them not dl anything permanently
22:11 <wrtlprnft> if i'll ever switch mail client it will be a console client
22:11 <wrtlprnft> mutt or something
22:11 <wrtlprnft> that way i can do the same thing as i do with irssi and put it into a screen session
22:11 <wrtlprnft> *that
22:12 <wrtlprnft> and if i ever switch web browsers... imagine the details
22:12 <n54> as in switching mail over etc.?
22:13 <wrtlprnft> no. if i have a console mail client in a screen session i can just SSH from anywhere and get access to my mail as if i was sitting directly in front of my computer
22:14 <n54> ah yeah but in my case my main computer is not contiuosly on (when it's operating) but the server I have planned would be
22:15 <wrtlprnft> I was thinking about moving this IRSSI session over to my server
22:15 <wrtlprnft> but decided against it because of the lag
22:16 <n54> yeah it's a quarter of the world away for you :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> yeah
22:16 <wrtlprnft> YAY
22:16 <n54> ? :)
22:16 <wrtlprnft> it stopped wanting to install gnome BS
22:16 <n54> hehe
22:23 <Self_Destructo> book printed :)
22:23 <n54> :)
22:23 <Self_Destructo> i went back and re did those 100 pages way off sync
22:24 <wrtlprnft> just 100 pages...
22:24 <wrtlprnft> TREE MURDERER! jk
22:24 <n54> lol but now that tree is like preserved! ;)
22:24 <wrtlprnft> hehe
22:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, someone remind me to check my logs in a week
22:25 <wrtlprnft> just configured logrotate to rotate those overflowing things
22:25 <n54> I will have forgotten tomorrow, don't ask me :|
22:25 <wrtlprnft> my /val/log/messages is 150MB
22:26 <wrtlprnft> */var
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #list later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: notes and tell
22:26 <n54> that's a tad ont he heavy side isn't it? running tripwire or similar?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help later
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: There is no command "later".
22:26 <wrtlprnft> no, but they're over a year old now
22:26 <wrtlprnft> #help tell
22:26 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells the <nick> whatever <text> is. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
22:27 <wrtlprnft> no #tell --in 1 week wrtlprnft blah?
22:27 <n54> make a cronjob?
22:27 <n54> mailing you?
22:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's what logrotate does
22:28 <wrtlprnft> just an easy way
22:28 <wrtlprnft> you know, central point where all packages with logs put themselves into
22:28 <wrtlprnft> I'm fine if it just gzips the files and stores them somewhere
22:29 <wrtlprnft> mailing is a bad idea, i don't want it to send me a 150MB mail next week
22:29 <n54> no just a reminder was my thought
22:29 <wrtlprnft> aaaaah
22:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
22:29 <n54> I wouldn't want a 150MB mail either :D
22:30 <n54> that's way beyond spam :)
22:30 <wrtlprnft> what was that command that lets you execute another command at a specified time?
22:30 <n54> at?
22:30 <wrtlprnft> i thoght it was at, but it doesn't exist on my sytem
22:30 <n54> that might be outdated though
22:30 <n54> ah oh *scratches head*
22:31 <wrtlprnft> /msg memoserv help
22:31 <wrtlprnft> ack
22:31 <wrtlprnft> there must be a use in that thing
22:32 <n54> hmm I still have at at my system (knoppix)
22:32 <wrtlprnft> might just be something gentoo doesn't install by default
22:33 <n54> yeah, or maybe it does something weird like only provide it to root? *no idea*
22:33 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:33 <SD|away> cya guys
22:33 <n54> cya SD :)
22:33 -!- SD|away is now known as SD|bbmonday
22:33 <wrtlprnft> cya
22:33 <wrtlprnft> uh, that's a no for the match tomorrow i guess
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> that's a no
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ok
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> I'm never here on sundays
22:34 <wrtlprnft> ah, right
22:34 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3460
22:34 <wrtlprnft> grammar: 0
22:34 <wrtlprnft> 2.8 is better
22:34 <wrtlprnft> better than what?
22:34 <SD|bbmonday> lol
22:34 <wrtlprnft> and it's 0.2.8, if anything
22:36 <n54> brb
22:37 <wrtlprnft> hb
22:45 <n54> hb?
22:47 <wrtlprnft> hurry back
22:47 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:47 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:48 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:52 -!- _Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
22:52 <n54> wb
23:04 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:12 -!- _Lucifer_arma is now known as Lucifer_arma

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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