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[2020-11-14 00:00:22] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: uh, no.  You got proof?  Or are you just spouting Trump talking points?  Repeating a liar is on you.
[2020-11-14 00:00:53] <Lucifer_arma> even the international observers watching everything said it was a well-run election.
[2020-11-14 00:01:26] <luke-jr> not going to bother proving anything to you, it'll come out in court
[2020-11-14 00:01:39] <luke-jr> if you were paying attention you'd have already seen it
[2020-11-14 00:01:57] <Lucifer_arma> ok.  We'll see.  If, that is, any of the court cases manage to not get thrown out (so far, every one of them that's gone in front of a judge has been tossed)
[2020-11-14 00:02:34] <Lucifer_arma> ok, then, what does voter fraud look like?  Besides a sore loser losing an election.
[2020-11-14 00:03:29] <luke-jr> I don't really care how it goes at this point anyway
[2020-11-14 00:04:10] <luke-jr> I did my duty to vote. That's the end of my role in government.
[2020-11-14 00:04:14] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know.  I mean, it's not like the future of our country relies on having free and fair elections or anything
[2020-11-14 00:04:35] <luke-jr> I have no interest in our government continuing anyway.
[2020-11-14 00:05:02] <Lucifer_arma> have you become a play soldier?
[2020-11-14 00:05:08] <luke-jr> wut
[2020-11-14 00:05:52] <Lucifer_arma> have you joined a militia?
[2020-11-14 00:06:01] <luke-jr> no
[2020-11-14 00:06:07] <Lucifer_arma> become a wannabe terrorist?
[2020-11-14 00:06:11] <luke-jr> …
[2020-11-14 00:06:27] <luke-jr> sorry, these are just dumb questions now
[2020-11-14 00:06:37] <Lucifer_arma> put on camo and taken your assault rifle out into the wilderness to march around with other likeminded people?
[2020-11-14 00:06:59] <Lucifer_arma> do you have a picture of Timothy McVeigh hanging over your gun safe?
[2020-11-14 02:05:59] -!- Armanelgtron changed nick to Armanelgtron
[2020-11-14 03:05:44] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.2.9-armagetronad-sty+ct+ap] r1189 Language entry for CHATBOT_CONTROLLED_BY_SERVER || [0.2.9-armagetronad-sty+ct+ap] r1188 Initial basic implementation of CHATBOT_CONTROLLED_BY_SERVER...
[2020-11-14 04:47:45] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: Like in any election, there have been irregularities. Votes that shouldn't be there (the famous dead people voting) and stuff. It's not really possible to tell which of these are the result of fraud or just down to errors. Both are bound to happen. And yeah, the recounts will show there have been counting errors. BUT, of course, there is zero evidence (by which I mean something that would hold in court, Alex Jones shouting at
[2020-11-14 04:47:45] <Z-Man> a crowd does not count) for large scale and/or systematic fraud at this point.
[2020-11-14 04:52:28] <Z-Man> And while it is deeply problematic that luke-jr and possibly millions of others still believe Trump's lies, there is no need to put him that deep into the loonie basket.
[2020-11-14 04:55:59] <Z-Man> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/us-election-fraud-trump-international-observers-report-b1720152.html <- link to Lucifer_arma's statement about international observers; the actual report is linked there. Of note is that not all US states allow these observers.
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[2020-11-14 11:12:27] <luke-jr> Z-Man: a popular brand of voting machines used in all swing states classifying Biden votes as Trump?
[2020-11-14 11:12:48] <luke-jr> Z-Man: all the votes giving Biden a sudden lead, not having votes on any other office/issue?
[2020-11-14 11:13:24] <luke-jr> Z-Man: large batches of votes coming in literally 100% Biden? not even a small minority Trump?
[2020-11-14 11:13:41] <luke-jr> perhaps you can argue these aren't conclusive, but they are certainly evidence
[2020-11-14 16:05:58] <Z-Man> Well, thanks for providing links. I'll just answer to what I find. The voting machine miscount (Dominion Voting Systems?) happened in one batch due to a misconfiguration, not fraud. It was discovered and corrected, the machines themselves worked fine. Yes, it can happen elsewhere, too. Automatic counting is problematic. That's what recounts by hand are for.
[2020-11-14 16:07:15] <Z-Man> I'm not searching for votes that were just for Biden and not for any congress/senate candidate or other issue. Strikes me as a normal thing to do if you're only interested in this one thing and don't care or don't feel informed enough about the other things.
[2020-11-14 16:10:38] <Z-Man> The 100% votes for biden apparently were just a transfer error of some website, not even unofficial counts. Again, quickly corrected. Blown out of proportion on social media. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/technology/biden-michigan-votes.html
[2020-11-14 16:13:17] <Z-Man> I mean, if you're upset about that, what about days with NEGATIVE COVID-19 death counts in spain? Look at Spain's cumulative grahps here: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html What's going on there?
[2020-11-14 16:16:52] <Z-Man> So no, no evidence. Your election system may be a bit rusty and old fashioned and slow, but it seems to be working. Mostly.
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[2020-11-14 21:39:54] <-- Z-Man has quit (Killed (card.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
[2020-11-14 21:39:54] -!- zmanuel changed nick to Z-Man
[2020-11-14 22:11:27] <Lucifer_arma_> there are always mistakes and anomalies, and so far, there's only been one election that was potentially miscounted because of them (2000).  There's just no way to have millions of people vote and get counted without there being some issues.
[2020-11-14 22:12:10] <Lucifer_arma_> That's not the question here.  The question here is if there's enough "issues" to reach the point of massive, deliberate votes that swung the election in the direction away from what people actually voted for
[2020-11-14 22:12:52] <Lucifer_arma_> and again, if you take a look at the size of conspiracy needed to execute on that sort of thing, you find an organization that would be too big to hide/camoflage
[2020-11-14 22:13:35] <Lucifer_arma_> even the 2016 election, as close as the margins were in a few states, still had margins high enough that Trump was clearly the choice of the country, given the rules of the election
[2020-11-14 22:14:01] <Lucifer_arma_> (except in a couple of states, but he still would have 270 electoral votes without them)
[2020-11-14 22:14:48] <Lucifer_arma_> as for large vote dumps in this election that swung towards biden, yeah, that really happened.  It's exactly what you expect to happen when early voters swing pretty hard to the left, and those votes aren't allowed to be counted until the day of the election
[2020-11-14 22:15:25] <Lucifer_arma_> in a lot of places where early votes *were* allowed to be counted early, we saw the opposite, but since we saw that happening in non-swing states, the "voter fraud" crowd is ignoring them
[2020-11-14 22:15:56] <Lucifer_arma_> just like they're ignoring how in north carolina, votes postmarked on election day but received later are still counted, because Trump won north carolina.
[2020-11-14 22:16:49] <Lucifer_arma_> we literally saw protestors in Michigan yelling "Stop the count!" because Trump was losing there the more they counted, and protestors in Arizona yelling "count the votes!" because Trump was losing there and wouldn't win if they stopped counting
[2020-11-14 22:18:40] <Lucifer_arma_> I might be willing to take these voter fraud claims mroe seriously if the claimants didn't keep discrediting themselves when they make them

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