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Log from 2018-06-03:
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[02:46:18] <physkets> The 0.4 version seems to make my latop run hotter than the 0.2.8
[02:46:37] <physkets> I can only play it for a relatively short duration
[02:46:48] <physkets> Any idea why this might be?
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[09:11:48] <TheNate> Hey, can someone tell me where i get the Linux Server package for the Version; "0.2.9_alpha_r1483"?
[09:16:18] <physkets> TheNate: if you're building from source, I think you can just pass it a flag
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[09:53:15] <TheNate> thx
[09:57:35] <Z-Man> physkets: Does the FPS counter in the top right corner show exorbitant numbers? Then you simply run without VSYNC on 0.4.
[09:58:19] <Z-Man> The mechanisms for that changed from 0.2.8 to 0.4. 0.4 should have a menu option somewhere in the screen settings, probably advanced. Can't remember right now.
[10:07:14] <physkets> Z-Man: Yep, it gives me ~300fps
[10:07:48] <physkets> the V-Sync was set to 'Default'
[10:07:59] <physkets> I tried setting V-Sync to 'Wait', but it still gives me the same kinds of fps
[10:23:30] <Z-Man> physkets: If an app restart does not help, you'll need to use whatever your OS and graphics driver allow to force VSync.
[10:23:48] <Z-Man> For NVIDIA cards, for example, there are some environment variables you can set.
[10:29:34] <physkets> Z-Man: I'm using an integrated intel card
[10:30:16] <physkets> also, many settings are not persistent across restarts... for eg., resolution, fullscreen...
[10:30:25] <physkets> and sometimes, it changes arbitrarily
[10:35:47] <physkets> Z-Man: And no, the 'V-Sync' setting ia also not persistent across restarts, and it doens't seem to work, even within a sesssion
[10:36:04] <physkets> Any idea how I can force this in an env variable, with an intel card?
[11:08:36] <Z-Man> No, no idea.
[11:40:19] <physkets> Z-Man: but doesn't that seems morelike a bug in the game rather than of the environ?
[11:56:59] <Lucifer_arma> problem there is, I'm using a second-gen intel laptop and it runs fine, those settings persist as expected
[11:57:25] <Lucifer_arma> so, reproducing the bug is pretty important, and ruling out the environment is even more important, since I don't experience it with intel graphics
[11:57:38] <Lucifer_arma> and that's on two computers, actually, with the other one being seventh-gen intel
[11:59:35] <physkets> ah... mine's 7th gen too
[11:59:58] <physkets> i5-7200U
[12:00:32] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I've already forgotten what the other one is.  It's a quad-core low power mobo with the cpu soldered on
[12:01:06] <Lucifer_arma> mini-atx, we use it for the tv, but I play armagetron on it from time to time, so I can play it on a Big Screen
[12:02:52] <Lucifer_arma> I guess I'd start by checking permissions on the config directory and files
[12:03:06] <Lucifer_arma> settings can't persist if you don't have write permissions
[12:06:35] <Lucifer_arma> physkets: are you running from the build directory, or did you install it?
[12:10:00] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm going to reboot, and then do some warmups
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[12:26:31] <physkets> Lucifer_arma: built from latest source...
[12:26:51] <physkets> directly from the bzr 0.4 repository
[12:41:53] <Lucifer_arma> are you running from the build directory or did you install it?
[12:46:07] <Z-Man> The fact that VSYNC does not work is not an armagetronad bug, VSYNC is not part of the vanilla OpenGL spec and we can't support all vendor specific solutions.
[12:46:35] <Lucifer_arma> intel uses the mesa drivers
[12:46:56] <Lucifer_arma> dunno if that matters, but it is something I've learned recently :)
[12:47:57] <Z-Man> That the settings don't persist may be a bug. Do just the graphics settings do that? If so, it's not really that they don't persist, it's that on startup, setting the last video mode fails and we revert to known safe values.
[12:49:16] <Z-Man> Now, the strategy we use for that fallback may be up for debate. I made a bug entry for that, for me, it falls back to 640x480 windowed too eagerly.
[12:50:03] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: That may help. And I remembered that my wife's laptop also has an Intel GPU.
[12:50:39] <Lucifer_arma> so where do I go to find out what team I'm playing for?
[12:53:02] <Z-Man> Discord, probably.
[12:53:12] <physkets> Lucifer_arma: I don't understand what you're asking.... I did install it, and I did build it from source
[12:53:19] <Z-Man> Gotta install that app, I guess.
[12:53:22] <Lucifer_arma> where are you running it from?
[12:53:36] <Lucifer_arma> did you do "make install" and run it as "armagetronad"?
[12:53:50] <physkets> oh, well, the script puts things executables in /usr/bin
[12:54:01] <Lucifer_arma> or did you just do "make" and do "./src/armagetronad_main"?
[12:54:24] <Lucifer_arma> so you installed it and you're running it from the installed executable?
[12:54:52] <physkets> Lucifer_arma: https://ptpb.pw/LDQ-/bash
[12:55:10] <physkets> Yes, I installed it
[12:55:21] <physkets> and running the installed executable
[12:56:25] <Lucifer_arma> ok, so is it only the graphics settings that aren't persisting or is it all settings?
[12:56:31] <Lucifer_arma> i.e. does your player name persist?
[12:56:42] <Lucifer_arma> sinewav: do I have to use discord to play in the ladle?
[12:57:08] <physkets> player name and other settings seem to persist
[12:59:46] <physkets> I've had them for a very long time now, and this is in my ~/.config/armagetronad/user_3_1_utf8.cfg
[12:59:56] <physkets> Lucifer_arma: https://ptpb.pw/j4H3
[13:10:19] <Lucifer_arma> when you run it from the terminal, what kind of output in the terminal do you get?
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[13:23:01] <physkets> Lucifer_arma: okay, a very funny thing ahppened when I ran it from the terminal
[13:23:18] <physkets> all the settings were correct, AND the fps stayed at ~60
[13:25:18] <physkets> And now I tried running it directly, and the same behaviour continues... it seems like everything is fixed
[13:25:22] <physkets> this is weird
[13:25:36] <physkets> I will check again tomorrow and tell you guys
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[13:28:08] <Lucifer_arma> can anybody see http://armawiki.davefancella.com ?
[13:33:01] <Z-Man> I just see run(); there.
[13:34:33] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: also, from chat on the server, ct seems to be short on on players.
[13:39:21] <Lucifer_arma> which server?
[13:39:38] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: but you see something there?  (I expect it to not work, I just can't get a dns lookup on it)
[13:39:58] <Armanelgtron> Z-Man: Are you recording the ladle?
[13:40:28] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: Yes, I see something.
[13:40:43] <Z-Man> Armanelgtron: Trying, if Z-Girl does not trample on the power switch.
[13:42:14] <Lucifer_arma> so, how do I find a team?  :/
[13:44:43] <Z-Man> I asked on Discord. Let's see if they tell me something.
[13:45:03] <Z-Man> Discord does not have /me :(
[13:46:04] <Z-Man> Peat says that ww is also in need.
[13:46:46] <Lucifer_arma> that's what Gazelle just said
[13:48:15] <Z-Man> tinyurl.com/ladle110 says Bzchu.
[14:03:19] <Armanelgtron> How do we know what servers are actually being ladled? All of them which are populated, or?
[14:03:47] <Armanelgtron> I feel like I'm asking a dumb question :P
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[14:07:20] <Z-Man> Armanelgtron: yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I just follow the crowd.
[14:07:41] <Z-Man> Gotta get the wiki back in order. Now the relevant info is at least in three different places.
[14:08:05] <Z-Man> Some Website for the brackets, some google doc for the teams, and who-knows what for the servers.
[14:08:23] <Z-Man> Goddammit, the discord app is driving me up the wall.
[14:09:01] <Armanelgtron> @ Lucifer_arma You don't seem to have the php extention running in whatever the armawiki.davefancilla.com is
[14:09:31] <Armanelgtron> It seems to be just sending the php document directly to the browser, instead of being executed
[14:10:07] <Armanelgtron> that's more appearant when right clicking and hitting view source on a webbrowser
[14:13:50] <Lucifer_arma> I give up
[14:14:54] <Lucifer_arma> if anybody's looking for a player, I'll be around
[14:51:21] <Lucifer_arma> well, since I didn't get to play in the ladle, I setup a test wiki for the ArmaUnified and ArmaLegacy skins
[14:51:35] <Lucifer_arma> it's working for me at http://armawiki.davefancella.com/
[14:55:19] <Armanelgtron> background grid seems quite large
[14:56:00] <sinewav> TWBD 2:0 Psy6
[14:58:45] <Lucifer_arma> Armanelgtron: that's taken from a 0.4 screenshot in the UI
[14:59:38] <Armanelgtron> the menu background? I believe that scales based on resolution
[14:59:56] <Lucifer_arma> it might.  In which case I took it at full screen
[15:00:04] <Lucifer_arma> at my desktop resolution
[15:00:17] <Lucifer_arma> I see one serious problem, you can't read the "Log in" link
[15:00:41] <Lucifer_arma> in fact, that whole bar is kinda hard to read
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[15:09:00] <Lucifer_arma> I like the grid being big.  It's simple.
[15:09:39] <Armanelgtron> it matches the big fonts, ha
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[15:22:35] <Lucifer_arma> I see the difference in grid size
[15:23:36] <Lucifer_arma> when I switch to ArmagetronLegacy
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[15:31:24] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [themes] r48 Adjusted personal bar colors so they can be read || [themes] r47 Working on wiki
[15:43:47] <Z-Man> Heh, I thought TWBD stood for Team Win By Default.
[15:45:53] <Lucifer_arma> um, oops?
[15:46:47] <Lucifer_arma> well, I guess it doesn't matter to me anymore which version of phpbb we're running, since I can't run anything older than 3.2 on my laptop for testing purposes
[15:50:34] <Z-Man> Ah, had I opened the correct tournament bracket org page, I'd have seen the servers.
[15:56:48] <Lucifer_arma> well, since I can't do anything with the forums for now, I guess I'll work on davecms
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[16:18:27] <peatcoal> Lucifer_arma: sorry you didn't get to play.. thought you went to the CT team
[16:18:56] <peatcoal> Z-Man: thanks for all the help
[16:20:36] <Lucifer_arma> peatcoal: never found them.
[16:21:01] <peatcoal> they were in light's US but supported by redeption
[16:21:23] <peatcoal> uhh, by R i mean
[16:21:35] <Lucifer_arma> I was there and asked, and got no answers
[16:21:39] <peatcoal> yeah :/
[16:21:53] <peatcoal> I think the problem is noone wanted to captain an open team this time
[16:22:11] <Lucifer_arma> I feel like the noob-friendly tournament isn't very noob-friendly if someone like me can't play :(
[16:22:17] <peatcoal> there were some subs available in our server for TWBD and psychotic but you missed out on that
[16:22:29] <peatcoal> yeah - it's not very noob friendly tbh
[16:22:55] <Lucifer_arma> well, the original concept, if we were going to get back to it, is that the only software you need to play in the ladle is the game itself
[16:23:01] <peatcoal> especially when the wiki isn't editable
[16:23:23] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's a bit of a problem
[16:23:28] <peatcoal> well, and an IRC client ideally traditionally - but discord is much more noob-friendly than IRC
[16:23:31] <Lucifer_arma> turns out that fixing it is somewhat nontrivial
[16:23:50] <Lucifer_arma> except it's not available in the repos for ubuntu ;)
[16:24:07] <Z-Man> And we don't even know whether what we do will fix the problems.
[16:24:16] <peatcoal> well it depends what you mean by noob I guess :)
[16:24:27] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: actually, I'm pretty sure what we can do will fix the problems :)
[16:24:41] <Lucifer_arma> the problem that I've seen reported is based on DLH's timeconvert extension
[16:24:58] <peatcoal> I think if it's not easily fixable the snags will get ironed out and next time will be less chaotic
[16:25:01] <Lucifer_arma> it's a lua exception being thrown, and the timeconvert extension is what imports lua
[16:25:08] <peatcoal> without using the wiki
[16:25:50] <Lucifer_arma> but I honestly don't understand why we need lua on the wiki, so I'd revise that extension to not use it at all
[16:25:55] <Lucifer_arma> none of the other extensions use it
[16:26:32] <peatcoal> do we need the timeconvert extension?
[16:26:35] <Lucifer_arma> it's funny, like lol funny, that dlh is never happy with the language he's using, so he imports some other language to do stuff that he could've done otherwise
[16:26:44] <Lucifer_arma> peatcoal: depends.  It's there primarily to support tournaments
[16:26:46] <Z-Man> Err, yeah. I didn't know it used Lua. The wiki is right now on a shared hoster, chances are Lua is not even supported there.
[16:27:02] <peatcoal> the way it worked this time is someone said 18:00 GMT and everyone was fine with that
[16:27:03] <Lucifer_arma> it allows someone to put in a time in UTC and it'll be displayed in the user's local time zone
[16:27:24] <Z-Man> Sounds like that should be possible in PHP.
[16:27:25] <peatcoal> I think people are pretty used to googling it
[16:27:27] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's what TimeConvert does.  you put in 18:00GMT, and it'll tell me "1pm", because that's it for me
[16:27:44] <Lucifer_arma> it's just a convenience extension.  We can safely disable it to fix the wiki.
[16:27:50] <peatcoal> and if it's a toss up between no timezone conversion and no wiki edits.. the impact of the former is much smaller than the latter :)
[16:28:06] <peatcoal> assuming it's that simple
[16:28:22] <Lucifer_arma> the other extension dlh wrote should just be a matter of porting it to mediawiki 1.27, and then z-man can upgrade
[16:28:29] <Lucifer_arma> I've already got the skins ready to go.
[16:30:42] <Lucifer_arma> the RecentChangesOption could also be safely disabled, but it serves a pretty useful purpose, iirc
[16:31:41] <Z-Man> Of course Lua is not supported on the host. I moved the Wiki there like three years ago, nobody noticed?
[16:32:00] <Lucifer_arma> I'd suggest we quit using that extension, and when people complain about the recent changes page, we look at this list for fixes:
[16:32:02] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Recent_Changes_extensions
[16:32:38] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: people should only notice it when they're using the TimeConvert extension.  That's why your test of one edit worked fine, but ladle edits weren't working so well.
[16:33:18] <Z-Man> I honestly don't know how the extension works, I would have assumed it does the conversion on the fly when you READ a page.
[16:33:34] <Z-Man> I would also have assumed it not using Lua, so what do I know?
[16:34:08] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not kidding, I laughed out loud when I saw Lua, thinking "He doesn't like C++ so he wants Ruby, now he doesn't like php so he's using Lua"
[16:34:16] <Lucifer_arma> he's a funny guy :)
[16:34:35] <Lucifer_arma> he'd probably find a way to work fortran into a python app
[16:34:40] <Z-Man> Well, PHP is a well known mess, so I can't blame him there.
[16:34:59] <Z-Man> And the Ruby thing was explicitly for scripting, not his own work.
[16:35:03] <Lucifer_arma> it's gotten a lot better, but he wrote that extension back when it was still a big mess
[16:35:25] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I know, he had good reasons.  But there's no comedy if you look at good reasons.  ;)
[16:35:40] <Lucifer_arma> ironically, now I want to abandon both python and ruby and use lua for scripting
[16:35:54] <Z-Man> It is still a big mess. Most of it can't be changed because it would break stuff. The same problem C++ has in some areas.
[16:36:13] <peatcoal> Z-Man: you're needed in the EU server to promote someone to team leader
[16:36:16] <peatcoal> if you don't mind
[16:36:52] <Z-Man> Whom?
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[16:52:35] <Lucifer_arma> woohoo.  davecms installs.  Doesn't run, of course, but it installs.  :)
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[16:57:37] <Syre> lol
[16:57:53] * Armanelgtron is now known as Nelg
[16:57:54] <Armanelgtron> ha
[16:58:16] <Syre> lol
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[20:19:17] <Lucifer_arma> holy crap, Microsoft is buying github!
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[22:32:12] <ct|kyle> Lucifer_arma: you mean Microsoft is going to fuck over github
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[22:48:52] <Armanelgtron> hmm
[22:49:16] <Armanelgtron> @Aix_
[22:55:21] <Aix_> Microsoft is going to pollute GitHub with they adware spyware and every possible mischief to screw over open-source repositories, the BSD/MIT licensed repositories are going have most likely the least protected and going to get fucked over the worst.. GPL stuff is still safe interms of IP but theres no guarantee that Microsoft won't be sniffing around private repositories now that they have access to virtually every organisations
[22:55:21] <Aix_> massive code bases hosted in GitHub
[22:55:49] <Aix_> O well time to migrate over to gitlab I guess..
[23:05:48] <Aix_> Next you know they are probably buying out canonical or redhat.. Microsoft's open-source and we love Linux strategy basically seems like "lets buy out the big open-source assets" and then let's fuck the foss community over either by adding their crap  to it and monetizing everything or making it unusable with their screwed up licensing policies .. embrace extend extinguish
[23:06:11] <Armanelgtron> if you can't beat it, destroy it
[23:07:48] <Lucifer_arma> oddly enough, Microsoft is actually the biggest code contributor to github

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