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Log from 2009-12-05:
--- Day changed Sat Dec 05 2009
00:00 <zmanuel> ah. Luckily, I do have more than 8.
00:00 <ct|kyle> I can change that though
00:00 <ct|kyle> I keep fortgrtting to anyway
00:00 <ct|kyle> forgetting*
00:04 <ct|kyle> .randomteam bla ble
00:04 <tronner> ct|kyle: http://crazy-tronners.com/kyle/random/rand091204230428.txt  ble, ~bye~, ~bye~, ~bye~, ~bye~, ~bye~, bla, ~bye~,
00:07 <zmanuel> .randomteam den247 xbigdoser Dr_Jackyll Aninael TurtleTheAwkward Belevon ToAGlassOfSherry Nyalugwe MEX LordDraco3 PyROphantasea
00:07 <tronner> zmanuel: http://crazy-tronners.com/kyle/random/rand091204230740.txt  Dr_Jackyll, ~bye~, Nyalugwe, xbigdoser, den247, ~bye~, Belevon, ~bye~, TurtleTheAwkward, ToAGlassOfSherry, Aninael, ~bye~, LordDraco3, MEX, PyROphantasea, ~bye~
00:08 <zmanuel> Ah, it pads to 16?
00:08 <ct|kyle> well 4 8 16 32 or 64
00:08 <zmanuel> course.
00:08 <ct|kyle> err 32 is highest
00:09 <ct|kyle> and the link gives you the wiki entries
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11:40 <iloafk> hi
11:42 <PinkTomato> iloafk, ?
11:42 <PinkTomato> hi there
11:43 <iloafk> hi
11:43 <iloafk> I'm a big fan of aad :)
11:43 <iloafk> I'd expected this channel would exist
11:44 <\u03b5> \o
11:44 -!- MaZuffeR [n=mazuffer@dyn58-476.yok.fi] has joined #armagetron
12:00 <pavelo> it's called "arma" :)
12:06 <iloafk> me my collegues at work have a funny spare time server, but it is becoming more and more time, not spare, we are not serious at all however
12:10 <PinkTomato> that makes a change
12:14 <iloafk> we built some internal tools to manage the server remotely, now other people at work want to join the server also
12:14 <iloafk> it is being fun
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13:16 <akira_arma> .ls eggcozy
13:16 <tronner> akira_arma: timed out
13:16 <akira_arma> #ls eggcozy
13:21 <madmax> .sg pharm
13:21 <tronner> madmax: There doesn\'t seem to be a server matching “pharm” at the moment, sorry
13:21 <madmax> .sg tsp
13:21 <tronner> madmax: There doesn\'t seem to be a server matching “tsp” at the moment, sorry
13:23 <madmax> .sd pharm
13:23 <tronner> madmax: Ladle 28 (The Server Pharm NY): Players (0/32):
13:23 <madmax> heh, .sg fails
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14:35 <iloafk> where is the place to submit an issue about authentication failing?
14:35 <iloafk> bzr? forum? sf?
14:48 -!- hoax [n=hoax@94-192-40-28.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
14:51 <\u03b5> iloafk, forums or lp bugs
14:52 <iloafk> I created a bug report in lp, thanks
14:52 <\u03b5> rather forum, as this sounds like a general usage question
14:53 <iloafk> mm.. looks like a bug to me
14:53 <\u03b5> you use "" to give an empty prefix/suffix in the reference implementation right?
14:53 <iloafk> ''
14:54 <\u03b5> ok
14:54 <iloafk> single quoted
14:54 <iloafk> but I tested with doubled also, same results
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16:20 <iloafk> can anyone point me about which arma version should we start to work with? is 0.3.1 trunk the same as
16:21 <iloafk> we are used to svn and cvs, but noobs to launchpad
16:22 <iloafk> I guess they are different, but we haven't seen any oficial release for 3, only for 2.8 so there comes the confusion
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16:34 <iloafk> no mind, I'd just reviewed to see they are quite different versions
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19:20 <luke-jr> iloafk: we use Linux's old version scheme
19:20 <luke-jr> iloafk: 0.3 will always be experimental/unstable, merely snapshots of trunk
19:20 <luke-jr> iloafk: all development should be on trunk
19:20 <luke-jr> not 0.2.8 nor snapshots thereof
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20:22 <\u03b5> luke-jr, we use gimp's version scheme :)
20:27 <luke-jr> ...
20:27 <luke-jr> \u03b5: Linux's old version scheme :p
20:28 <\u03b5> mine's shorter!
20:28 <luke-jr> who cares if crap like GIMP copied it too
20:29 <iloafk> so luke-jr, should we stick to 0.2.8?
20:29 <luke-jr> iloafk: for?
20:29 <iloafk> we'll be developing a tool to admin a server
20:30 <luke-jr> [12:20:50] <luke-jr> iloafk: all development should be on trunk
20:30 <luke-jr> btw, you mean like http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=aademo
20:30 <iloafk> no luke-jr, we are not going to touch arma code.. but make an app for that
20:31 <iloafk> well, not exactly
20:31 <PinkTomato> iloafk, most servers run stableish .2.8
20:32 <iloafk> our intention is to integrate both a portal and the server tool
20:32 <iloafk> but not using a forum as a portal
20:32 <iloafk> we are working on Drupal
20:32 <luke-jr> ew
20:36 <\u03b5> luke-jr, raging over the fact GIMP uses GTK?
20:36 <\u03b5> woo Krita \o
20:37  * luke-jr notes GTK apps hang his system regularly... when he has to use them
20:38  * \u03b5 doesn't
20:38 <\u03b5> except for the flash plugin, but that's really something else
20:39 <luke-jr> unfortunately, Krita seems to be lacking many important basic features for photos :(
20:39  * \u03b5 wonders why luke-jr is on a crussade against GTK+ apps
20:39 -!- G5 [n=G5@cl-506.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit []
20:40 <luke-jr> 1. it's ugly
20:40 <luke-jr> 2. it's slow
20:40 <luke-jr> 3. it's non-standard
20:40 <luke-jr> 4. it crashes my system
20:40 <luke-jr> 5. it's REALLY ugly
20:40 <luke-jr> 6. even the API is ugly
20:40 <\u03b5> not ugly, not slow, what standard?
20:40 <luke-jr> desktops have standard widgets
20:40 <luke-jr> on Windows, GDI
20:40 <luke-jr> on OS X, Cocoa
20:41 <luke-jr> on KDE, Qt4
20:41 <\u03b5> I use windows so VNC is non-standard
20:42 <luke-jr> Windozeluser
20:42 <\u03b5> I use Windows so UNIX is non-standard
20:42 <\u03b5> :)
20:42 <iloafk> well, thanks luke-jr, PinkTomato, and no, definitely we have no kind of arma server services in mind
20:42 -!- G5 [n=G5@cl-506.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #armagetron
20:43 <luke-jr> Windozeluser
20:44 <PinkTomato> KDE seems to Fault a lot for me
20:45 <\u03b5> idk, I only use dolphin from KDE, afair
20:51 <luke-jr> my biggest problem w/ KDE is memory leaks, and Plasma's taskbar leaving crap that isn't open anymore
20:55 <\u03b5> arr
20:55 <luke-jr> ARR
21:35 -!- sinewav is now known as sine_awave
21:37 <noob13> .ls fingerbib
21:37 <tronner> noob13: fingerbib has last been seen on .:Prutopolis:. .:Sumo:. 3 days 23 hours 39 minutes ago.
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22:14 <noob13> .sg fort
22:15 <tronner> noob13: timed out
22:33 <\u03b5> dlh, does http://generalconsumption.org/armagetronad/ladle/ query servers each time?
22:35 <\u03b5> dlh, also, it seems to set the var "i" globally at some point
22:40 -!- sine_awave is now known as sinewav
22:44 <dlh> \u03b5: Yes, it queries each time
22:45 <\u03b5> hrm, can you take degree off it?
22:46 <dlh> Why?
22:46 <\u03b5> a bug on trunk
22:46 <\u03b5> apparently, the queries wrtl's script sends are malformed
22:47 <\u03b5> trunk chuckles on it and dismisses it, kills the client
22:47 <\u03b5> but somehow, it sends a packet to all it's clients too
22:47 <\u03b5> and 0.3.0 interpret these packets are a tentative from the server to "cheat"
22:47 <\u03b5> so it spams their console
22:47 <dlh> hmm, really?
22:47 <\u03b5> in-game
22:47 <\u03b5> yeah
22:48 <dlh> The global i must be coming from a library I use. I just checked
22:48 <\u03b5> i can reproduce it, I was going to work on it but either got on build issues with 0.3.0 or 0.3.1 alphas or had to do other stuff
22:49 <\u03b5> dlh, not something like for( i in iterable ) ?
22:53 <dlh> There's only 3 uses as i as variable in my code, and they're all local. It's probably the tablesorter library I use
22:53 <dlh> of i as *
22:55 <\u03b5> doesn't jQuery UI have such a thing?
22:56 <dlh> The degree server has been removed from my online server browser
22:58 <\u03b5> thanks a lot
22:59 <iloafk> is there a lp version of armagetron_php_client.php?
22:59 <dlh> Yes there is
22:59 <iloafk> oh good
23:00 <iloafk> who manages it?
23:00 <dlh> iloafk: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/tools-php-client-trunk-work
23:00 <\u03b5> iloafk, there also is a python port if you are interested
23:00 <iloafk> thank you dlh
23:00 <\u03b5> search for pygamequery
23:00 <iloafk> our work is focused on php :/
23:01 <\u03b5> as said, if you're interested :)
23:01 <dlh> The global i is coming from the tablesorter library. Javascript scoping rules are dumb.
23:01 <\u03b5> maybe if I find hosting I'll put a monster pygamequery instance somewhere
23:01 <luke-jr> ...
23:01 <\u03b5> which could be queried with php
23:01 <luke-jr> code hosting?
23:01 <luke-jr> Launchpad?
23:01 <\u03b5> no
23:01 <iloafk> thans \u03b5
23:02 <\u03b5> it's already on launchpad
23:02 <luke-jr> o
23:02 <\u03b5> I said an _instance_ :)
23:02 <luke-jr> does it work with my service layer? :P
23:02 <\u03b5> there is no monster deamon yet anyway, if that's what you're asking for
23:03 <\u03b5> but I have something like that in mind, and it wouldn't be too far away, considering how solid the base app is
23:03 <\u03b5> however still needs some little changes
23:05 <luke-jr> huh?
23:05 <luke-jr> my service layer spawns Arma directly, with its stdio specially handled
23:05 <luke-jr> how does your stuff talk to Arma? :p
23:05 <\u03b5> ah
23:06 <\u03b5> atm it just uses a python port of wrtl's lib, so it sends a bigserverinfo message to the server and waits for a response
23:07 <\u03b5> in the future the armagetron plugin will use protobuf if that's possible
23:11 <\u03b5> sinewav, if you're still interested in any way: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1796852
23:13 <luke-jr> ... so I don't get it
23:13 <\u03b5> what are you trying to do?
23:14 <luke-jr> figure out what you want
23:15 <\u03b5> a monster instance would keep collecting info from all servers and give it out on queries
23:15 <iloafk> so.. before I get some love too, ..
23:15 <iloafk> what is the process to submit patches for the tools-php-client
23:16 <\u03b5> ie. centralize it in one place to save traffic to servers
23:16 <\u03b5> umm
23:16 <\u03b5> branch and merge request
23:16 <sinewav> \u03b5: thanks man. I bookmarked it to read later. It still interests me.
23:16 <\u03b5> yw
23:17 <\u03b5> iloafk, if that wasn't clear to you, I meant branch it, publish your edited branch(on lp), then do a merge request
23:17 <iloafk> ok, we will be doing some heavy testing to that client, so probably I'll finish with several updates
23:17 <luke-jr> \u03b5: Arma VPS?
23:17 <iloafk> \u03b5, better small changes each time?
23:18 <\u03b5> you can split it up in commits in your branch
23:18 <\u03b5> then propose the merge once it's done
23:19 <iloafk> \u03b5, sorry if I bother you, it is going to be my lp's first time
23:19 <iloafk> so..
23:19 <\u03b5> luke-jr, nope, and while armagetron is one of the only three games it supports it, it's not a central aspect of it yet
23:19 <\u03b5> np, I was rendered unproductive before starting to read irc anyway :)
23:21 <iloafk> mm luke-jr, was you the last one working on the php client?
23:21 <luke-jr> yes
23:22 <iloafk> perhaps the first approach, considering I'm new to lp, woudl be to do some clean ups and put docs/comments in the php
23:23 <iloafk> may I ask for support while doing this?
23:23 <\u03b5> you should read http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.2.0/en/user-guide/index.html if you haven't yet
23:24 <\u03b5> it explains the concept of distributed version control and is a very good guide to bzr
23:24 <\u03b5> (the tool we use for revision control)
23:24 <iloafk> tyvm \u03b5
23:24 <\u03b5> do NOT skip the intro :)
23:24 <iloafk> lol
23:26 <iloafk> well, \u03b5, a link about how do you use bzr for the project would do
23:26 <iloafk> it is pretty much a general guide
23:28 <\u03b5> _I_ use it like http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.2.0/en/user-guide/bazaar_workflows.html#decentralized-with-shared-mainline
23:28 <\u03b5> luke-jr afairs uses it like http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.2.0/en/user-guide/bazaar_workflows.html#centralized
23:28 <\u03b5> or at least encourages me to
23:28 <\u03b5> :)
23:29 <\u03b5> to get you a general idea
23:29 <luke-jr> lies
23:29 <\u03b5> you'd first branch the php tools branch from lanchpad
23:29 <iloafk> haha
23:29 <\u03b5> make some changes, commit, make some changes, commit
23:29 <iloafk> do I have to update between changes?
23:29 <\u03b5> when you want to publish your work you would push your work
23:30 <iloafk> I'd say no
23:30 <luke-jr> I don't use/encourage *any* of those workflows..
23:30 <\u03b5> luke-jr prefers to use butterflies
23:30 <luke-jr> I make a branch per enhancement, and merge it to mainline when it works
23:30 <luke-jr> lol
23:30 <\u03b5> and when you want us to review your patch and merge it do a merge request on launchpad
23:30 <luke-jr> http://xkcd.com/378/
23:31 <\u03b5> that's pretty much Decentralized with shared mainline
23:31 <iloafk> ok
23:31 <iloafk> thank you both :)
23:31 <luke-jr> \u03b5: except that branches are per enhancement, not per person
23:31 <luke-jr> so multiple persons might be working on a branch, and one person might work on multiple branches
23:32  * \u03b5 nods
23:32 <\u03b5> yw
23:32 <iloafk> but nobody could work on my branch untill I push it, right?
23:32 <luke-jr> iloafk: I encourage branching onto Launchpad, and making a checkout of that branch ;)
23:33 <iloafk> that makes sense for me also
23:34 <iloafk> if I could find the way to do so
23:35 <\u03b5> iloafk, yes
23:35 <iloafk> register a new bzr branch for this project?
23:35 <\u03b5> first bzr branch the /BASE/ branch
23:36 <\u03b5> that being the php tools one
23:36 <iloafk> what I already did following your orders
23:36 <\u03b5> from that point, you can do like me and work on your own branch, pushing changes whenever you want
23:36 <iloafk> mm being base: bzr branch lp:~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/tools-php-client-trunk-work
23:37 <\u03b5> or, you can do like luke-jr and put it on launchpad first, then have your commits pushed right as you do them
23:37 <iloafk> I just confronted the 'register new branch' and cry
23:37 <iloafk> the form, I mean
23:37 <\u03b5> bzr push lp:~ilo/armagetronad/my-fancy-branch-name
23:37 <\u03b5> you don't need to fill that form
23:37 <dlh> Yeah, you don't need to register a branch from the form
23:38 <\u03b5> it works just as well if you push to the branch first
23:38 <\u03b5> so you only have details like description to fill
23:38 <luke-jr> ..
23:38 <iloafk> do I need to do some trick about being in a folder to do that or something?
23:39 <iloafk> after the bzr branch command, I mean
23:39 <luke-jr> bzr branch lp:~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/tools-php-client-trunk-work lp:~ilo/armagetronad/tools-php-client-trunk-BRANCHNAME
23:39 <luke-jr> bzr checkout lp:~ilo/armagetronad/tools-php-client-trunk-BRANCHNAME
23:39 <iloafk> oh thank you
23:40 <noob13> .ls pike
23:40 <tronner> noob13: ct|pike has last been seen on ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate\'s Mega Fortress 2 hours 26 minutes ago.
23:43 <iloafk> arg, I do have to submit ssh key first
23:45 <iloafk> pgp key, I meant
23:46 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@ip-62-143-241-5.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
23:59 <iloafk> one question, how is it easier for review once I finished all the clean up.. doing small commits or doesn't matter

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