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Log from 2009-03-05:
--- Day changed Thu Mar 05 2009
00:02 <epsy> guru3, aah, wordpress's own rewrite rules thing is annoying
00:04 <z-man> dlh: can do.
00:06 <ivantis2> weird, i was just speaking of wordpress
00:08 <z-man> luke-jr: right now, they only know 'good for me'.
00:09 <@armabot> armacommits: [bugfarm-scripts] r19 Rearranged some stuff to avoid the '32 minutes to next elimi... || [0.2.8-armagetronad-newspam] r1098 escape colors
00:09 <epsy> I've been thinking a bit about how would the menus be ideally organized
00:09 <epsy> I ended up on having server browser as the main menu
00:10 <cpayan> Personally, textpattern
00:10 <cpayan> But the people want wordpress, so i works with wordpress
00:29 -!- nsh22 [n=neal@unaffiliated/nsh22] has joined #armagetron
00:29 <nsh22> hai hai hai
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01:13 <@armabot> armacommits: [armagetronad-zone-models] r888 zShapeModel, that does not work :( || [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r892 Don't find your path to a zone, it doesn't work properly (an...
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01:25 <joda_bot> epsy: Are you interested in doing somekind of use case based analysis of the menus ?
01:25 <joda_bot> ah, he left
01:26 <joda_bot> well tomorrow then
01:26 <joda_bot> gn8
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01:40 <nsh22> ZURD!
01:40 <nsh22> since when did you have irc?
01:40 -!- Stewah_ [n=AngryOve@cpe-76-88-118-97.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
01:40 <nsh22> Zurd: ping
01:41 <luke-jr> Zurd: PING
01:41 <Zurd> ok, i need assistance, its not a bug, because i have tried on several different firmwares...everytime i got to enter a server, it loads all the settings and config, then after 5 sec, the whole game crashes, and shuts down. The is the yellow trianlge icon at the bottom of my screen that says " armagetron_sdll corrupted"...i have unistalled and reinstalled many many times at this point...and everything to the best of my kno
01:42 <Zurd> hey neal
01:42 <Zurd> i come in evry now and then
01:43 <Zurd> ^ i have even gone so far as switching my gfx cards^
01:46 <dlh> Zurd: what version are you running, and on what OS?
01:46 <Zurd> i went from the 2.8.3 beta 2 to the official 2.8.1<curently on>, on windows xp SP3
01:47 <luke-jr> Zurd: we don't even have 1.0 yet
01:47 <luke-jr> let alone 2.8
01:47 <luke-jr> ]yandere start theme=twg
01:47 <Zurd> then it was 2.7.3 and 2.7.1.........
01:47 <luke-jr> we don't have a 2.7 yet
01:47 <Zurd> ???
01:47 <nsh22> s0.2.8
01:48 <luke-jr> is unsupported and obsolete
01:48 <nsh22> it is?
01:48 <nsh22> s0.2.8.2?
01:48 <nsh22>
01:48 <luke-jr> is latest stable
01:49 <Zurd> ok, i was mixed up in my numbering, it was beta2 to stable(current)
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01:51 <luke-jr> Zurd: I know nothing about a
01:51 <nsh22> he meant
01:51 <nsh22> why do you have to be so specific? :P
01:52 <luke-jr> becuase they actually mean something
01:52 <nsh22> ...
01:52 <nsh22> #night
01:52 <@armabot> Good night nsh22!
01:52 <nsh22> #weather innisfil
01:52 <@armabot> nsh22: The current temperature in Innisfil, Innisfil, Ontario is 23.2°F (7:52 PM EST on March 04, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 5.0°F. Windchill: 23.0°F. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026.0 hPa (Rising).
01:52 <Zurd> ok well, now that we have all that clarified, ahy know anything about the problem?
01:52 <nsh22> its fucking balmy
01:53 <nsh22> :P
01:53 <nsh22> im not even joking
01:53 <nsh22> kk im out
01:53 <Zurd> later neal
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01:56 <Zurd> has this been problemed been issued before?
01:57 <luke-jr> Zurd: what version works?
01:57 <Zurd> none have worked
01:57 <luke-jr> dlh: did you answer dlh yet?
01:57 <Zurd> i've been able to get into the server browser, but after that, nada
01:58 <Zurd> yea, i thought i did
01:58 <luke-jr> I missed it.
01:58 -!- animuson [n=animuson@CM-204-193-203-61.omah.tconl.com] has joined #armagetron
01:58 <Zurd> dlh: i went from the beta 2 to the official<curently on>, on windows xp SP3
01:58 <animuson> does anyone know why it renames the players when they login?
01:59 <luke-jr> o i c
01:59 <animuson> like EricForLyfe@animuson.com renames him to EricForLyfe
01:59 <luke-jr> Zurd: try on Kubuntu or some sane OS
01:59 <ct|kyle> animuson: because the are not using a beta clients
01:59 <luke-jr> animuson: he's running an old version
01:59 <ct|kyle> old = stable :P
01:59 <Zurd> luke-jr: ok, i'll try on my ubuntu
01:59 <animuson> i run 0.2.8 but it doesnt rename me when i lgoin :-/
01:59 <ct|kyle> you probably are not running
02:00 <Zurd> run the newest beta, it should work fine
02:00 <animuson> i am
02:00 <animuson> thats the number it says when it starts up
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02:00 <ct|kyle> is your grid name different that you /login name though?
02:00 <ct|kyle> or do you have a reservered_name for yourself?
02:00 <animuson> yea i use $t->animuson and login as animuson@animuson.com
02:01 <luke-jr> wtf kind of name is that
02:01 <animuson> ?
02:03 <animuson> ...
02:03 <dlh> animuson: what do you mean they are renamed?
02:03 <animuson> like |PT*iMe logs in as ptiMe@animuson.com and gets renamed to ptiMe
02:04 <luke-jr> ]yandere start theme=twg
02:04 <ljrbot> The Worm Game is starting in 60 seconds! Please type "]yandere" to join.
02:05 <animuson> erednay[
02:05 <luke-jr> -.-
02:05 <ljrbot> We don't have enough players yet. We need at least 4 players to start a game. I'll wait for another 60 seconds. Please type "]yandere" to join.
02:05 <animuson> ]yandere
02:05 <luke-jr> ]yandere extend
02:05 <ljrbot> Added another waiting extension.
02:05 <animuson> lol
02:06 <animuson> so noone knows about the login thing?
02:06 <luke-jr> animuson: we already told you
02:06 <ljrbot> We don't have enough players yet. We need at least 4 players to start a game. I'll wait for another 60 seconds. Please type "]yandere" to join.
02:06 <animuson> that doesnt explain why it does it to other people but not me tho :P
02:07 <ljrbot> There aren't enough players to start the Worm Game. Try again later.
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02:08 <animuson> if u install a newer arma client will it keep ur player settings and stuff?
02:08 <luke-jr> if it's from the same series
02:18 <@armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r894 They grind! The split is a tad uncoordinated, better hope yo... || [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r893 Improved team management:...
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02:25 <animuson> how do i scroll up in a screen session?
02:26 <mkzelda> shift+pgup?
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03:08 <smoothice> luke-jr: flag zones appear! :D
03:09 <luke-jr> smoothice: wd; but they always did for me once it compiled
03:09 <smoothice> I'm talking about the work you did
03:09 <smoothice> thanks a lot
03:09 <smoothice> I'm so excited
03:10 <luke-jr> O.o
03:10 <ct|kyle> now learn what he did :P
03:10 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: nothing really
03:10 <luke-jr> I just made it compile..
03:11 <smoothice> for some reason the code that detects which team the flag is on doesn't work though
03:11 <ct|kyle> where is a server to see
03:11 -!- Genki [n=Jenny@ip70-176-82-12.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #armagetron
03:11 <smoothice> one sec
03:11 <ct|kyle> o0 Genki
03:11 <smoothice> yo genki
03:12 <Genki> heya
03:12 <ct|kyle> Genki: you Yahoo was hacked
03:12 <Genki> I heard I changed the pass a few days ago
03:12  * ct|kyle got spammed from it Friday
03:12 <ct|kyle> ok
03:12 <Genki> mhmm
03:12 <Genki> lemme know if you get any more
03:12 <ct|kyle> ok
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03:18 <@armabot> armacommits: [armagetronad-old-glancing] r759 Merge from trunk... || [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r895 Stalemate break. If nobody is willing to attack, defenders r...
03:19 <smoothice> luke-jr: Where is the code in your fortress stuff that sets the color of the zone to the color of the closest team? I cannot find it
03:20 <smoothice> luke-jr: nevermind, I found it in a new function you made that I wasn't expecting
03:41 <smoothice> luke-jr: the OnInside method of zFlagZone isn't working at all.. I put an sn_ConsoleOut in there with a \n and it never runs when I go inside the flag zone
03:43 <smoothice> luke-jr: yep, I can verify that OnInside is not running
03:44 <luke-jr> smoothice: why not? ;)
03:44 <smoothice> that's why I asked?
03:44 <smoothice> I tried OnEntry too
03:44 <smoothice> and it didn't work either
03:47 <luke-jr> bet you're overriding something important and not passing it
03:48 <smoothice> what do you mean?
03:50 <luke-jr> like Timestep
03:51 <smoothice> what do you mean overriding
03:51 <smoothice> aren't they called my the zZone engine automatically?
03:51 <smoothice> by the *
03:54 <luke-jr> yes, zZone calls them
03:54 <luke-jr> probably in zZone::Timestep
03:54 <smoothice> so then how could I be overriding OnEntry?
03:54 <luke-jr> but if you override it with zFlagZone::Timestep, you need to call zZone::Timestep yourself
03:54 <luke-jr> same goes for OnEntry and co
03:54 <luke-jr> or any method you override
03:55 <smoothice> where do I put that?
03:55 <smoothice> In my own Timestep?
03:58 <ct|kyle> #m z-man http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6291/screenshot77.png I'm running the trunk playing in smoothice's server, Not sure if it is a bug, a bug that has been fixed or what.
03:58 <@armabot> ct|kyle: The operation succeeded.
03:59 <ct|kyle> #am z-man by smoothice's server it is his zones v2 sty testing
03:59 <smoothice> #help am
04:00 <@armabot> smoothice: Error: There is no command "am".
04:00 <smoothice> #help m
04:00 <@armabot> smoothice: (m <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "later tell $*".
04:00 <ct|kyle> #m z-man by smoothice's server it is his zones v2 sty testing
04:00 <@armabot> ct|kyle: The operation succeeded.
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04:10 <smoothice> luke-jr: Well Timestep was not being overridden
04:10 <smoothice> luke-jr: and all of the rest don't have to run their zZone parent, do they
04:10 <smoothice> ?
04:15 <luke-jr> of course they do
04:18 <smoothice> luke-jr: zFortress doesn't
04:18 <luke-jr> probably a bug
04:18 <smoothice> but it obviously works
04:19 <smoothice> mine doesn't work at all
04:21 <luke-jr> are you overriding interact whatever?
04:21 <@armabot> armacommits: [armagetronad-v2sty] r874 Set color of flag to the team color
04:23 <smoothice> luke-jr: InteractWith?
04:24 <luke-jr> I think the 'I' is lowercase
04:27 <smoothice> well no anyways
04:27 <smoothice> this is really strange
04:27 <smoothice> the zone practically does nothing
04:31 <smoothice> luke-jr: can you give r874 a quick compile?
04:32 <luke-jr> no'
04:33 <smoothice> :(
04:33 <smoothice> I'm truly stumped when it comes to zZone extends
04:38 <ct|kyle> smoothice: it sits there looking ugly what more do you want :P
04:38 <smoothice> ?
04:39 <luke-jr> XD
04:39 <smoothice> ??????
04:39 <luke-jr> smoothice: I'm at work, can't touch any code right now
04:39 <ct|kyle> looks ugly meaning white zone
04:39 <smoothice> It ain't white anymore
04:40 <smoothice> but it still does look ugly
04:40 <ct|kyle> o0
04:40 <ct|kyle> heh
04:40 <smoothice> luke-jr: don't you live in Iowa?
04:41 <luke-jr> no
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04:41 <smoothice> I thought you said you did
04:41 <luke-jr> nope
04:42 <ct|kyle> smoothice: wtf is #include "zZone.pb.h"
04:42 <ct|kyle> wait nm
04:42 <ct|kyle> LOL
04:43 <ct|kyle> smoothice: why do you need to #include "zone/zFortress.h"
04:50 <smoothice> umm
04:50 <smoothice> I copied zFortress
04:50 <smoothice> lol
04:50 <smoothice> oooh
04:50 <smoothice> whoa that might mess it up...
04:51 <ct|kyle> heh
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04:53 <Pathetique> *give me that filet of fish, give me that fish (oooh!)*
04:53 <smoothice> ?
04:53 <Pathetique> You've not seen the new McDonalds commercial?
04:53 <luke-jr> you watch TV?
04:54 <Pathetique> I like to watch a few shows.
04:54 <smoothice> lol
04:54 <Pathetique> But I don't watch it like people watch "boob-toobs"
04:54 <Pathetique> I only watch the news and Battlestar Galactica.
04:54 <Pathetique> That's about it.
04:54 <Pathetique> lol
04:55 <Pathetique> What about you, luke-jr?
04:56 <Pathetique> What's in YOUR wallet?
04:56 <Pathetique> o.0
04:56 <luke-jr> I don't watch TV.
04:56 <luke-jr> I don't even have it plugged in.
04:56 <Pathetique> That's quite silly.
04:56 <luke-jr> nah
04:56 <Pathetique> :]
04:57 <Pathetique> luke-jr, you've had your fair share of the ganja, haven't you?
04:59 <ct|kyle> I probably won't be watching too much tv anymore
05:00 <ct|kyle> they are getting rid of the only sho I watch
05:00 <Pathetique> which is...?
05:00 <ct|kyle> Kyle XY :P
05:00 <Pathetique> ROFL!
05:00 <ct|kyle> I like sci-fi
05:00 <Pathetique> is that why you're tron name is kyle?
05:00 <ct|kyle> no my real name is kyle
05:00 <Pathetique> So do I
05:00 <Pathetique> oic
05:03 <Pathetique> What do you think of Battlestar Galactica or Stargate Atlantis?
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06:24 <cpayan> I'm confused, what does the Mates function in the new beta do?
06:28 <cpayan> ah, only shows servers where your mates are?
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06:44 <cpayan> Lucifer, eating people :D
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06:49 <Durka> #hello
06:49 <Durka> anyone home?
06:49 <@armabot> Hello Durka :) Quote #26: "<Lucifer_arma> I want fundamentalism just so I can wipe my ass with luke-jr_'s face" (added by spidey at 05:44 AM, October 25, 2006)
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08:22 <cpayan> hey durka
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08:29 <cpayan> err
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11:51 <tramshed> BONGRIPS FOR JESUS
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14:49 <@armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r897 EmergencyGrind now calls basic ThinkGrind.... || [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r896 Refined grinding and splitting by storing substates....
14:51 <BabyBug> fortress ai? :o
14:53 <joda_bot> #/whois joda_bot
14:53 <joda_bot> #/op joda_bot
14:53 <joda_bot> :-P
14:53 <joda_bot> #echo /op joda_bot
14:53 <@armabot> /op joda_bot
14:53 <joda_bot> heh
14:53 <joda_bot> :D
14:53 <BabyBug>  #op =)
14:53 <joda_bot> :-P
14:54 <joda_bot> I'm not allowed to be opped I guess
14:54 <joda_bot> #op joda_bot
14:54 <@armabot> joda_bot: Error: You don't have the #armagetron,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
14:54 <joda_bot> #whoami joda_bot
14:54 <@armabot> joda_bot: (whoami takes no arguments) -- Returns the name of the user calling the command.
14:54 <joda_bot> #whoami
14:54 <@armabot> joda_bot: I don't recognize you.
14:54 <joda_bot> hehe good :D
14:55 <epsy> @op joda_bot
14:55 <teabot> epsy: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
14:55 <epsy> bbl
14:55 <epsy> #op joda_bot
14:55 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o joda_bot] by armabot
14:55 <@joda_bot> :-)
14:55 <@joda_bot> lol
14:55 <@joda_bot> #deop joda_bot
14:55 <@armabot> joda_bot: Error: You don't have the #armagetron,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
14:55 <BabyBug> #deop joda_bot
14:55 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o joda_bot] by armabot
14:55 <epsy> :P
14:55 <BabyBug> :D
14:55 <joda_bot> hehe
14:56 <joda_bot> epsy: I read that you spend some thoughts on userfriendly menus ?
14:56 <joda_bot> epsy: did you write some of that down ?
14:56 <epsy> no
14:57 <epsy> bb in  hour
14:57 <joda_bot> k
14:57 <epsy> 1*
15:03 <BabyBug> #si ai fortress
15:03 <@armabot> BabyBug: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “ai fortress” at the moment, sorry.
15:03 <BabyBug> hrmph
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15:38 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-119-120.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
15:39 <smoothice> #m z-man now that we have a fortress AI, we should make a racing AI and a CTF ai :)
15:39 <@armabot> smoothice: The operation succeeded.
15:39 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@unaffiliated/smoothice] has quit [Client Quit]
15:51 <@armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r898 Factored out chatbot AI so it can be used by regular AI....
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16:30 <epsy> is smoothice stupid?
16:30 <BabyBug> if i was able to bite my tongue, i'm sure you can too epsy! xD
16:31 <Lizmatic> if you notice he's stupid from that sentence BB then you are a nerd, liar
16:31 <epsy> you aren't ?
16:31 <epsy> Lizmatic, why would we have bots support CTF before we support CTF ourselves?
16:31 <Lizmatic> love you anyway but srsly you big giant nerd :P
16:31 <Lizmatic> I DON'T KNOW!
16:32 <epsy> me neither
16:32 <BabyBug> i hate you Lizmatic
16:32 <epsy> it's quite of a nonsense
16:32 <PinkTomato> We had programmers before Computers :)
16:33 <epsy> yeah and they were coding in python of course
16:37 <joda_bot> ...
16:38 <epsy> joda_bot, want me to write about my menus thing?
16:39 <joda_bot> depends on what your approach was
16:39 <joda_bot> or goal
16:39 <epsy> main problems in menus currently are:
16:39 <epsy> 1/ You cannot customize them
16:39 <epsy> 2/ Nothing can add an entry to a menu
16:39 <joda_bot> epsy: I'd be in favor of making menus least click / key press navigation (user friendly)
16:40 <epsy> 3/ It takes 3 submenus to actually get to the server browser
16:40 <BabyBug> and they whore the cpu!
16:40 <joda_bot> I second 3 :-)
16:40 <epsy> BabyBug, vsync off?
16:40 <BabyBug> yes yes vsync off
16:40 <epsy> so, my idea would be to have it revolve around the server browser
16:40 <epsy> BabyBug, turn it on
16:40 <epsy> BabyBug, problem fixed
16:41 <joda_bot> epsy: hm, but first time entering the game needs a fix too (ask for username and player color)
16:41 <epsy> so, at first run the user would be shown a prompt for ...
16:41 <epsy> gah!
16:41 <epsy> :)
16:41 <PinkTomato> that dosen't work for me
16:41 <epsy> so yeah, username, color, car and whatnot
16:41 <joda_bot> I guess we've got similiar ideas
16:41 <epsy> scrap the select language part
16:42 <PinkTomato> epsy: I suggest not :)
16:42 <joda_bot> But I would not want to remove the single player / local game options
16:42 <epsy> we will just let gettext decide
16:42 <PinkTomato> o
16:42 <PinkTomato> that's ok,
16:42 <epsy> I don't either
16:42 <joda_bot> I'd rather make two start menu entries one shortcut for online gaming, and keep the usual menu entry (with restructured menu)
16:43 <epsy> now the thing would be to have the server browser on the main screen AND other menus, without cluttering everything up
16:43 <joda_bot> My goal would be to also get Crazy Tronners map to be playable offline... but I'm not sure how difficult that is
16:43 <joda_bot> haven't check on that.
16:43 <epsy> we could have a smaller server browser instead, and an entry to reach a more advanced server browser
16:43 <PinkTomato> with ruby support
16:43 <PinkTomato> that would be possible?
16:44 <epsy> if there are server bookmartks set, main screen should only show bookmarks
16:44 <PinkTomato> What about game mode select?
16:44 <joda_bot> PinkTomato: I was more thinking about using the usual php hacks on all platforms upto the point when arma supports real scripting
16:44 <epsy> PinkTomato, required gametype support
16:44 <epsy> joda_bot, hm yeah, that would need canonical names for resources
16:45 <epsy> so we have downloaded items as a list
16:45 <epsy> or tree
16:45 <PinkTomato> epsy: would that be hard to implement?
16:45 <epsy> that being .. ?
16:45 <PinkTomato> server game types
16:45 <epsy> that would mean rewriting gGame from scratch
16:45 <epsy> has been on our TODO list for so long
16:45 <epsy> depends on scripting, really
16:46 <PinkTomato> ah :(
16:46 <epsy> but you can be pretty sure you will see it
16:46 <joda_bot> epsy: I'm not sure if gGame really has to changed for that, but in the end I agree gGame needs refactoring for scripting
16:47 <joda_bot> epsy: one could still use the a delegate console output to script read instructions from script approch/hack
16:47 <joda_bot> like it's done for the current server maps
16:48 <epsy> let people do it, but better make it possible to do it properly, instead of encouraging that :)
16:48 <joda_bot> epsy: the rewrite won't be finished before 2011 :D
16:48 <joda_bot> I guess
16:48 <epsy> heh
16:49 <epsy> just needs some dependencies to be set
16:49 <joda_bot> ok, back to menus
16:49 <epsy> then I'm sure someone will really want to do it
16:49 <epsy> [17:44] <epsy>: if there are server bookmartks set, main screen should only show bookmarks
16:49 <epsy> [17:43] <epsy>: we could have a smaller server browser instead, and an entry to reach a more advanced server browser
16:49 <joda_bot> How did you come up with that idea ?
16:50 <joda_bot> I don't think I want to see only my empty bookmarked servers
16:50 <epsy> the serverbrowser as mainscreen mainly comes from quakelive I guess
16:50 <epsy> joda_bot, only if you have bookmarked servers :)
16:50 <joda_bot> I have styball
16:50 <joda_bot> but to 90% noone is online there
16:50 <joda_bot> so your design bugs :D
16:50 <joda_bot> atleast for me
16:51 <epsy> well, if your filters would hide every listed server in your bookmarks, it would switch to normal server browser
16:51 <joda_bot> why not leave it at the current priorities
16:51 <joda_bot> I usually just sort the servers by number of users / players
16:51 <epsy> yes
16:51 <joda_bot> as the score thing is not something I really understand the ordering
16:52 <joda_bot> of
16:52 <joda_bot> e.g. display bookmarked servers first, then other servers
16:53 <epsy> there's also that
16:53 <epsy> and also: ping bookmarked servers first, too :)
16:53 <joda_bot> I agreed
16:53 <joda_bot> but those are minor details
16:53 <joda_bot> I think
16:54 <epsy> now, should we have two different serverbrowser screens, or a "Customize/Filter" popup ?
16:54 <PinkTomato> what order are server's pinged currently?
16:54 <joda_bot> I rather thought about how to find options etc.
16:54 <epsy> PinkTomato, in the order they are listed
16:54 <joda_bot> listed by the master server
16:54 <epsy> PinkTomato, which is pretty much random
16:54 <PinkTomato> Ah right :)
16:55 <epsy> well, let's say you have the server browser on the top of the screen
16:55 <epsy> under that, you have: Customize Server View and Server Info
16:55 <epsy> then, under under that, you could have Play a Local Game, and options
16:55 <joda_bot> did you miss that feature ?
16:56 <epsy> what feature?
16:56 <joda_bot> I usually only got the problem to find a specific server
16:56 <joda_bot> which might be solved by a simple "Search" option ...
16:56 <epsy> and also maybe a filter, too
16:56 <epsy> well, some people only want to see servers within 50 ms ping, some only under 200
16:57 <epsy> for example
16:57 <joda_bot> sort by ping :D
16:57 <epsy> but I'm not sure what feature you mean
16:57 <epsy> joda_bot, show full/empty
16:57 <joda_bot> I'm more or less thinking that the server browser is the least of our troubles concerning user friendlyness ?
16:58 <epsy> one of the problems was that it was hard to be found
16:58 <joda_bot> yeah, I agreed with that, but that is gobal menu navigation problem
16:59 <joda_bot> is *a* global
16:59 <epsy> and well, I don't really see a problem with having the server browser as main screen
16:59 <epsy> especially since it's the first thing an user will jump to, usually
16:59 <PinkTomato> epsy: network activity is a lot
17:00 <joda_bot> depends :-) is internet available ? do we have a (sane) single player mode
17:00 <epsy> we don't
17:00 <joda_bot> yeah, but we will have :-)
17:00 <epsy> now well, armagetron is a multiplayer game, usually
17:00 <PinkTomato> Its the first thing everyone we know jump to
17:00 <PinkTomato> but the single player gamers don't usually come here :)
17:00 <BabyBug> what's wrong with single player? :s
17:00 <epsy> and it's one of the things the first-time user sometimes doesn't find
17:00 <joda_bot> otherwise we don't get smarter noobs :D
17:01 <joda_bot> hm, yeah, I agree it needs to easier to find
17:01 <PinkTomato> having to wait 50 seconds for the game to ping something I don't want to be  playing would be annyoying :(
17:01 <joda_bot> but I don't want all people to be "forced" into the server browser
17:02 <epsy> and well, for these users that don't say anything, there's still the Local Play button
17:02 <joda_bot> you might not want your boss / firewall admin to know that you just fired up armagetron :D
17:02 <luke-jr> can someone test email me plox
17:02 <epsy> your problem
17:02 <joda_bot> luke-jr: where to ?
17:02 <epsy> PinkTomato, and if you don't want to play an internet game, just click local game?
17:02 <luke-jr> PinkTomato: cache the server list info and refresh when you open it
17:02 <PinkTomato> ah but the server browser jams the game
17:03 <joda_bot> epsy: I still suggest, add a armagetron commandline option
17:03 <luke-jr> joda_bot: luke at dashjr blah org
17:03 <joda_bot> which automatically kicks you to the server browser
17:03 <epsy> PinkTomato, jams the game?
17:03 <joda_bot> and fix the menus for startup without the browser
17:03 <PinkTomato> Loading the server browser in its current state blocks the user from doing anything
17:03 <BabyBug> PinkTomato, you mean just when retrieving the list from the masters?
17:03 <epsy> the server browser isn't on the mainscreen in it's current state either
17:04 <luke-jr> IMO, this discussion should be on a wiki
17:04 <epsy> so that has to be changed as well
17:04 <PinkTomato> right, If I want local game, then I don't wait for that :)
17:04 <epsy> ok, shall we all move to a wiki talk page?
17:04 <epsy> exactly
17:04 <PinkTomato> Local Game, Lan Game, Internet Game, Game Options, Exit to?
17:04 <epsy> joda_bot, you could have a setting for the server browser to only ping bookmarks
17:05 <luke-jr> epsy: that defeats the purpose of the server browser :p
17:05 <epsy> that's why that wouldn't be default
17:06 <PinkTomato> That wouldn't need to be a setting?
17:06 <epsy> I would suggest default to be first bookmarks, then if there's no bookmark to be shown, regular servers
17:06 <epsy> but joda_bot's asking for it
17:06 <PinkTomato> That should be what happens when you select Internet Game -> Bookmarks
17:06 <joda_bot> epsy: I think you've got alot of valid points. But I'm opposed to your server browser as "main menu", because you neglect valid use cases that u don't use
17:06 <epsy> because he can't save his productivity properly :>
17:06 <epsy> what do I neglect for use cases?
17:07 <epsy> PinkTomato, no, that should only show bookmarks
17:07 <joda_bot> people on LAN parties, kids playing on a local school computer (never getting any servers on that list)
17:07 <joda_bot> I guess there are alot more use cases like single player games
17:07 <joda_bot> etc.
17:07 <epsy> then they can put themselves on that list
17:07 <PinkTomato> Internet Browser takes forever on port blocked firewall
17:08 <joda_bot> that's why I suggest to make a extra shortcut or commandline option which directly jumps to the server browser (+ fixing the overall menu structure)
17:08 <epsy> and have arma remember they only want to browse lan
17:08 <PinkTomato> epsy: But its adding useful information? Surely adding pinging servers to bookmarks would be useful?
17:08 <epsy> yes
17:09 <PinkTomato> Adding it as a setting makes the bookmark browser redundant?
17:09 <joda_bot> epsy: first impression is important... your website does not usually start with "downloads" feature but a general overview what the site is about :D
17:09 <joda_bot> same should apply to armagetron's main menu
17:09 <epsy> the guy already downloaded the game then
17:09 <epsy> now he wants to play
17:09 <joda_bot> show the use cases of the armagetron application and let the user select what he/she wants to do
17:10 <epsy> but he first has to go through player character creation
17:10 <joda_bot> might even have been included with the pc, copied from a friend or on a CD
17:10 <joda_bot> download is not the only way of getting arma
17:10 <epsy> otherwise you can get a boring main menu like tremulous's
17:11 <joda_bot> epsy: the player creating is an idea, I'm not sure if it fits the usual use case ...
17:11 <joda_bot> oh ok, bad phrasing
17:11 <joda_bot> it definitly fits the mainstream use case
17:11 <epsy> joda_bot, well, controls have to be set during that phase
17:11 <epsy> so it fits ever phase
17:11 <epsy> er
17:11 <epsy> case
17:12 <joda_bot> epsy: player name must not be configured on the same option page as keybindings
17:12 <joda_bot> for local games you can just configure keys and play, or even play without configuring anything
17:12 <epsy> So, main menu would be: Play online, Practise and Settings?
17:12 <epsy> joda_bot, of course not
17:12 <joda_bot> the newer clients just use the local user name for player name (which is ok too)
17:13 <epsy> except on windows :)
17:13 <PinkTomato> Maybe the first start up should be to choose between a z,x,c standard key binding or up,down,left,right etc.
17:13 <joda_bot> It does not work on Windows ?
17:13 <joda_bot> I thought it did ?
17:13 <epsy> but they will sure like to set their own color
17:13 <epsy> and so forth
17:13 <joda_bot> no, not if they just want to get an idea if they like the game :D
17:14 <PinkTomato> a grid of colours to select?
17:14 <PinkTomato> and then with a customise
17:14 <epsy> PinkTomato, mmm no :(
17:14 <epsy> three color components and a preview?
17:14 <joda_bot> PinkTomato: heh, I guess epsy and me are just talking about moving existing features not making vista like user friendly rotating eye candy :D
17:14 <epsy> a preview beinga niiice rotating cycle
17:15 <joda_bot> epsy: do we ?
17:15 <epsy> not in the first place
17:15 <PinkTomato> A grid is more user friendly ^_^
17:15 <epsy> but sucks
17:15 <epsy> three color bars
17:15 <epsy> = win
17:15 <PinkTomato> well it won't work without mouse control
17:15 <PinkTomato> the gird, I mean
17:15 <epsy> can work with keyboard
17:16 <epsy> and
17:16 <joda_bot> epsy: I like your suggestion with the talk page, might be good to document the current menu structure
17:16 <epsy> ah *
17:16 <epsy> PinkTomato, well, idea is to keep both
17:16 <joda_bot> and then find out what people tend to think about
17:16 <epsy> PinkTomato, think about consoles/arcades and phones
17:16 <epsy> it was sarcastic >.>
17:16 <joda_bot> I like the perspective with Online, Pratice etc. just not sure where LAN fits in etc.
17:16 <epsy> we're all here, so a talk page wouldn't be of any benefit
17:17 <epsy> ah
17:17 <epsy> Play Online, Play on LAN, Practise, Options, Exit
17:17 <Lizmatic> epsy, TST TST TST!
17:17 <epsy> Lizmatic, like, on the same day than FFF?
17:17 <joda_bot> epsy: but the wiki allows people to inspect and comment on our views later
17:17 <epsy> yes
17:17 <joda_bot> which is kind of difficult here ?
17:17 <epsy> so we will first get a document to review
17:18 <epsy> then let people post stuff on the talk page
17:18 <joda_bot> perhaps I should first think about if anyone is willing to comment on our menu idea ?
17:18 <epsy> we don't need to make choices for everything, but we don't want to use a talk page on an empty page
17:18 <joda_bot> otherwise we can just decide ourself :-)
17:18 <epsy> PinkTomato is doing so
17:19 <PinkTomato> epsy: ?
17:19 <Lizmatic> Epsy, when is FFF?:o
17:19 <epsy> [18:18] <joda_bot>: perhaps I should first think about if anyone is willing to comment on our menu idea ?
17:19 <epsy> Lizmatic, see #.tourneys
17:19 <PinkTomato> oh, I am. hehe :)
17:20 <PinkTomato> Help for the function in option delay could come faster
17:20 <epsy> what?
17:20 <joda_bot> I guess tomato is talking about the "tooltips" below the menu items
17:20 <PinkTomato> When you are in settings, help for the function at the buttom of the screen, but it takes ages to appear
17:20 <epsy> ah that
17:20 <epsy> definitely
17:21 <PinkTomato> Also Display Settings might need clearer names for the options within it
17:21 <Lizmatic> ah
17:22 <epsy> PinkTomato, well, what would that be?
17:22 <PinkTomato> I always seem to look in every menu till I find that "swap mode" function I was after etc
17:22 <joda_bot> epsy: ok, I think PinkTomato and other peoples annoyances should really be collected first ... might give us a strange new perspective
17:23 <epsy> bugtracker?
17:23 <epsy> tag your bugs with "menus"
17:23 <joda_bot> epsy: how about I'll make a wiki page about the current menu layout and we create a list of problems below that ?
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17:23 <PinkTomato> It's not clear to me the difference between Preferences (with sparks, Sky) and Detail Settings.
17:23 <epsy> that would be part of it
17:23 <BabyBug> Genki! <3
17:24 <Genki> heya
17:24 <epsy> PinkTomato, preference is more about preferences and detail settings are more about fps
17:24 <joda_bot> PinkTomato: do you know how to use the wiki? and do you know how to use the launchpad.net bugtracker ?
17:24 <epsy> now that's meant for the views of a casual game
17:24 <epsy> r
17:25 <epsy> ie. turning wall texture off will be a preference for an advanced player
17:25 <PinkTomato> Not done the bugtracker, but wiki is ok. Sky settings seem more of a detail though
17:26 <joda_bot> epsy: I guess the same is true for many other forum users ? they might have used the wiki for ladle but not the bugtracker ?
17:26 <epsy> PinkTomato, Detail settings = Performance
17:26 <epsy> not detail as "ohh look at this tiny object in the corner"
17:26 <joda_bot> Yeah, we might it call it Qaulity/Performance later :D
17:27 <PinkTomato> Hmm, there is a thin line between the two, as details can affect frames
17:27 <epsy> joda_bot, idl
17:27 <PinkTomato> as well
17:27 <epsy> idk *
17:27 <epsy> most users don't use either
17:27 <PinkTomato> true
17:27 <PinkTomato> Turning sound off should be easier, Currently you use Sound Quality option
17:28 <joda_bot> ok, great getting all this nice input, and no wiki page done yet :-)
17:29 <epsy> well, you do it, I'll work on modules a bit
17:29 <joda_bot> luke-jr: what about the email did you get it?
17:29 <joda_bot> epsy: I'll do some of it right now... so perhaps some users might extend and help :D just making the structure of the page
17:30 <joda_bot> epsy: what modules ?
17:30 <epsy> those that don't exist yet :)
17:30 <epsy> I have to think of a proper way of building them now
17:31 <epsy> @g trunk-eevent-modules
17:31 <teabot> epsy: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/trunk-eevent-modules - “~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/trunk-eevent-modules” branch in ...
17:33 <joda_bot> epsy: ah ok
17:34 <luke-jr> joda_bot: no :<
17:34 <luke-jr> epsy: modules exist for zones
17:35 <epsy> luke-jr, read: dynamically loadable modules
17:35 <luke-jr> they are dynamically loadable ☺
17:35 <epsy> are they?
17:35 <luke-jr> the problem is there is nothing to load them dynamically
17:35 <luke-jr> but they are perfectly capable of being loaded as such
17:35 <epsy> yes, so that's waht I'm doing, grrr :)
17:35 <luke-jr> literally, just a dlopen should do it ☺
17:36 <epsy> yes, now doing it properly takes a bit more
17:36 <luke-jr> "properly"?
17:36 <epsy> eg. you don't dlopen a python script
17:36 <epsy> :P
17:36 <luke-jr> o right
17:36 <joda_bot> eh luke-jr was the blah.org required or spam protection ?
17:36 <luke-jr> no idea how python modules would work
17:36 <luke-jr> joda_bot: it was a dot
17:36 <epsy> I don't know either
17:36 <joda_bot> luke-jr: dashjr DOT org ?
17:36 <joda_bot> :D
17:36 <epsy> but there's room for different module loaders
17:36 <luke-jr> :p
17:37 <joda_bot> luke-jr: if I got the address wrong, well just tell me ... wait
17:37 <epsy> which could be created from a module :D
17:45 <PinkTomato> argh, I spilt my drink.
17:45 <PinkTomato> yay, keyboard works
17:45 <PinkTomato> ,./1lm [p;l.µ 7
17:45 <PinkTomato> [
17:45 <PinkTomato> p[]
17:45 <PinkTomato> ;l./;@,vb opl;ool.bn v}@~
17:46 <PinkTomato> oops, sorry.
17:47 <epsy>  /query PinkTomato
17:57 <luke-jr> epsy: you might want to check zEffector for the module interface I made
17:58 <epsy> someone makes an instance of their magic class and hand it to some "registrar" ?
18:02 <luke-jr> err, no :p
18:02 <luke-jr> an instance of a simple template that registers the static factory function
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18:34 <Durka> #hello
18:35 <@armabot> Hello Durka :) Quote #61: "<MrBougo> amragetron p2p client, with a game inside and both would interact: you get a better ratio when you kill people, stay in the zone to keep downloading! the first team who downloaded the whole film wins" (added by epsy at 03:39 PM, October 27, 2007)
18:35 <Durka> anybody home?
18:35 <Durka> again?
18:35 <Durka> :P
18:35 <BabyBug> Boo!
18:35 <ct|kyle> o0 Durka
18:36 <Durka> o0 ct|kyle
18:42 <noob13> !tea
18:42 <noob13> #tea
18:42 <@armabot> noob13: Fortress Café: Players (2/32): noob13, PlayerNuby
18:43 <ct|kyle> #rand D U R K A
18:46 <joda_bot> epsy: finished initial version of wiki page
18:46 <joda_bot> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Menu
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18:59 <@armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r899 Using chatbot AI for defense bots now. Mixed results, tuning...
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19:19 <Durka> ct|kyle: ping
19:19 <ct|kyle> Durka: piong
19:20 <Durka> on
19:20 <ct|kyle> off
19:20 <Durka> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/
19:20 <Durka> how do i find the background grid image
19:20 <epsy> right click -> view background image
19:21 <Durka> huh?
19:22 <BabyBug> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/images/theme/wikibg.png
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19:22 <Durka> ahh shit
19:22 <Durka> i saw that
19:22 <Durka> just didnt click on it
19:23 <Durka> how can i make a much smaller version of that
19:23 <Durka> i wanna use that instead of http://durka.ath.cx/images/grind.png
19:23 <Durka> er, http://durka.ath.cx/images/grid.png
19:23 <ct|kyle> ask guru3 / wrtlprnft
19:24 <epsy> Durka, resize? start GIMP?
19:24 <Durka> http://www.shrinkpictures.com/processed/phpSTXJ8iPM.jpg
19:24 <Durka> sweet
19:25 <epsy> use a real image editor
19:25 <Durka> should i keep it as jpg tho?
19:25 <Durka> nowai
19:25 <Durka> fake ones ftw
19:25 <epsy> up to you
19:27 <Durka> epsy: it turned out nicely :P
19:27 <Durka> http://durka.ath.cx/
19:29 <luke-jr> hi Durka
19:30 <Durka> hi luke-jr
19:30 <luke-jr> Durka: do u want recognizers on ur server?
19:31 <Durka> what do u mean
19:31 <luke-jr> http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/ms_tron_recognizer08.jpg
19:31 <luke-jr> that guy coming and crushing random cycles
19:31 <luke-jr> instead of a death zone
19:32 <Durka> lol
19:32 <Durka> very funny
19:32 <luke-jr> requires 0.3.2+ for clients
19:32 <Durka> ...
19:32  * luke-jr is SO close to making it possible.
19:32 <luke-jr> I have flying zones already
19:32 <luke-jr> just need to get a 3DS model to replace the circle
19:33 <epsy> :-D
19:33 <BabyBug> can't you make a 3ds model?
19:33 <luke-jr> BabyBug: no, 3DS is proprietary
19:33 <luke-jr> but that's not the point
19:33 <luke-jr> the point is *rendering* the model
19:34 <epsy> yeah, this comes to an imortant point
19:34 <BabyBug> which is?!
19:34 <epsy> we will need a decent format for models
19:35  * cpayan nods
19:35 <luke-jr> epsy: model formats look simple, from a quick reading of r*.cpp
19:35 <luke-jr> I imagine a XML-based format wouldn't be too hard
19:35 <cpayan> i don't know much about the workings of arma yet but this stuff over models has come up over and over again the last few days
19:35 <epsy> luke-jr, it exists
19:35 <luke-jr> with a 3DS converter
19:35 <luke-jr> epsy: it does?
19:36 <epsy> and is supported by approximately 0 3D editor
19:36 <epsy> COLLADA
19:36 <luke-jr> I found a Recognizer 3DS on Google
19:36 <luke-jr> but it's not GPL compatible
19:36 <epsy> but still, I'm not really in favour of an XML format for models
19:36 <ct|kyle> that should come out on /admin kill/kick/ban
19:37 <luke-jr> epsy: fits better with resources?
19:37 <luke-jr> I mean, sure, we can easily make binary resources
19:37 <luke-jr> but then we can't do the nice metadata stuff
19:37 <luke-jr> not as easily anyhow
19:38 <BabyBug> easy isn't best! 8-)
19:39 -!- Durka [n=Durka@cpe-76-173-122-30.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
19:39 <epsy> luke-jr, we already have to make binary resources
19:40 <luke-jr> yes, for textures
19:40 <epsy> luke-jr, regarding metadata, I have an idea
19:40 <epsy> why not have "catalogs" of binary resources
19:40 <luke-jr> ?
19:40 <epsy> a reource that defines one ore more other resources
19:40 <luke-jr> the metadata is already in the filepath, technically
19:40 <epsy> well, we'll sure like to add more metadata
19:41 <luke-jr> the point of having it in the file itself is so it's harder to misplace it
19:41 <ct|kyle> CSS
19:41 <luke-jr> …
19:41 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: CSS is an entirely different matter
19:41 <luke-jr> one problem I've been pondering lately, tho:
19:42 <luke-jr> what image format supports multiple alpha channels?
19:42 <luke-jr> I think we need at least two
19:42 <luke-jr> one for object transparency
19:42 <luke-jr> and one for "object colour mix"
19:42 <dlh> tiff
19:42 <luke-jr> eg, to make green cycles green
19:42 <luke-jr> dlh: really?
19:42 <dlh> Yes
19:44 <epsy> isn't tiff bollocks to use?
19:44 <luke-jr> epsy: tiff.gz?
19:45 <luke-jr> failing that, is PNG extensible enough, I wonder?
19:46 <epsy> we could make XPNG!
19:46 <epsy> I wonder how inefficient would .xcf be
19:47 <cpayan> the gimp format?
19:48 <epsy> yes
19:48 <epsy> GIMP has a C exporter O_O
19:49 <epsy> also, TIFF doesn't want my additional channel
19:50 <epsy> so it would indeed only leave xcf :S
19:51 <epsy> we could also propose having these channels on another image
19:51 <cpayan> so we could make something in the gimp and have it running around on the grid without much hassle? :)
19:52 <epsy> because I don't really think we will like to be messing around with layers and stuff
19:52 <epsy> not too much hassle, except for us
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19:55 <epsy> dlh, luke-jr: feel good with abusing channels from other images?
19:55 <luke-jr> epsy: not really.
19:55 <luke-jr> I'd rather make the image 2x width and cut it in half
19:55 <luke-jr> or 2x height
19:56 <luke-jr> then overlay the two halves for 6 channels total
19:56 <luke-jr> 8*
19:56 <luke-jr> no idea what the extra 3 channels could be used for
19:57 <epsy> what if you have a texture that should mix colors of two teams? :)
19:57 <luke-jr> too much mixing destroys the colour IMO
19:57 <luke-jr> BUT
19:57 <luke-jr> you did bring up a possibility indirectly
19:57 <luke-jr> one additional channel would be invert-alpha mix
19:58 <epsy> not really for mixing all colors together :)
19:58 <epsy> I don't get it, care to explain?
19:58 <luke-jr> epsy: make a picture and invert it
19:59 <luke-jr> normal transparency just mixes the background
19:59 <epsy> color-wise?
19:59 <luke-jr> inverted transparency mixes the opposite of the background
19:59 <luke-jr> so if the BG is yellow, inverted is purple
19:59 <luke-jr> I think
19:59 <epsy> and then?
19:59 <luke-jr> ?
20:00 <luke-jr> mirror? :D
20:00 <epsy> O_o
20:01 <luke-jr> red, green, blue, transparent(alpha), invert transparent(red), mirror(green), object colour(blue), and inverted mirror(alpha)
20:02 <luke-jr> crap
20:02 <luke-jr> thought of another channel :x
20:02 <luke-jr> additive transparent
20:05 <luke-jr> image1: red, green, blue, transparent(alpha); image2: inverted transparent(red), mirror(green), object colour(blue), and additive transparent(alpha); image3: variable(red), inverted mirror(green), inverted object colour(blue), and additive inverted transparent(alpha)
20:05 <luke-jr> how do we store the image count metadata? XD
20:07 <luke-jr> well
20:08 <luke-jr> KolourPaint at least lets me give PNGs arbitrary metadata fields ;)
20:08 <luke-jr> we could just require metadata for more than 4 channels
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20:10 -Girlw221:#armagetron- WoW I just came from irc://irc.ninth-gate.org/projectw and they told me about you guys.. H
20:10 <Girlw221> WoW I just came from irc://irc.ninth-gate.org/projectw and they told me about you guys.. H
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20:11 <epsy> you really seem so interested
20:12 -!- PinkTomato [n=sam@hn-33-170.brookes.ac.uk] has joined #armagetron
20:12 <coldcrow> #tea
20:12 <@armabot> coldcrow: Fortress Café: Players (15/32): 33, <<~luAp~>>, CRaZy B3eR, CT~Voodoo (voodoo@forums), free kill (dlh@generalconsumption.org), Monkey.D.Luffy, Nikk¦A¦, nixie, pruWord (Word@forums), Revenge, rope, sithy, Vanhayes (Van-hayes@forums), waterglow, ~|DS|~|Alien|~
20:12 <coldcrow> woooooo
20:12 <Vanhayes> pong
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20:20 <luke-jr> epsy: dlh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/armagetronad/+spec/many-channel-textures
20:24 <joda_bot> luke-jr: why so many channels ?
20:25 <joda_bot> luke-jr: did my email arrive by now ?
20:25 <luke-jr> joda_bot: the main/original goal was the first 5
20:25 <luke-jr> joda_bot: i thin k so
20:25 <joda_bot> it's himmig something
20:25 <joda_bot> is object colour a channel
20:25 <joda_bot> ?
20:26 <luke-jr> it would be
20:26 <luke-jr> currently is for cycle textures
20:27 <luke-jr> what I wonder is how we will represent moving models
20:28 <luke-jr> for example, the cycles we have right now actually have moving wheels
20:28 <joda_bot> luke-jr: that's not part of the textures though ?
20:29 <luke-jr> no, the movement is currently hard coded
20:29 <joda_bot> and only works for non-moviepack cycle ... I know
20:31 <BabyBug> zman lies! fortress ai so doesn't grind! :@
20:32 <luke-jr> BabyBug: neither do you!
20:32 <joda_bot> luke-jr: hm, perhaps we can use MD3 or MD5 keyframe animations for that
20:32 <BabyBug> well that all depends on what i meant to be grinding 8-)
20:32 <joda_bot> if we find a nice lib for that, we'd might also add a lobby room with md3 characters later :D
20:33 <luke-jr> joda_bot: or MNG? :o
20:33 <joda_bot> mng ?
20:33 <luke-jr> but then each frame needs prerendering
20:33 <luke-jr> MNG is animated PNG
20:33 <joda_bot> ...
20:34 <joda_bot> no, I'd want polygon animated cycles :D
20:34 <joda_bot> with drivers turning their heads :D
20:34 <luke-jr> so you want animated models
20:34 <luke-jr> not animated textures ☹)
20:34 <luke-jr> ☺
20:36 <joda_bot> hm, how about: http://assimp.sourceforge.net/main_features.html
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22:57 <cpayan> Hibernate does not seem to work worth a damn on my laptop
22:58 -!- sunny [n=sunny@p5B00C874.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #Armagetron
22:59 <epsy> hi
23:00 <luke-jr> cpayan: hibernate never works worth a crap
23:00 <cpayan> Too bad, it's a good idea
23:01 <cpayan> I think this might be my laptop's fault though. The latch is loose.
23:06 <epsy> weeee, TV works on my new line, finally :>
23:06 <epsy> we can scrap the old line
23:11 <@armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r901 A lone defending AI will not switch to attack and back to de... || [trunk-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r900 Leakfix....
23:14 <cpayan> Does anyone know where I can look up free wifi hotspots? Is there a source for this kind of thing?
23:16 <epsy> @gtfy free wifi hotspots
23:16 <teabot> free: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=wifi%20hotspots
23:16 <epsy> @gtfy cpayan free wifi hotspots
23:16 <teabot> cpayan: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=free%20wifi%20hotspots
23:16 <cpayan> heh
23:17 <epsy> :>
23:17 <cpayan> class, pure class, epsy
23:17 <epsy> I gotta agree
23:17 <cpayan> Also. I googled it six ways to sunday and was hoping maybe someone already knew a wifi hotspotsearcher I hadn't found yet
23:17 <cpayan> so thanks. thanks for nothing
23:17 <cpayan> blah
23:18 <cpayan> :)
23:18 <epsy> what's the first link for, then?
23:19 <cpayan> ...
23:19 <epsy> is it irrelevant?
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23:40 <Lackadaisical> guru3: are PMs on the forums automatically deleted after some time?
23:42 <madmax> #tea
23:42 <@armabot> madmax: Fortress Café: Players (10/32): .dBd|Pathetique, 2020, DatSunny, Hedera, M.C, noobSaibot, `Ww Pushin, |x|Cid, ~|DS|~|JS|~, °höMö
23:43 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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23:48 <guru3> Lackadaisical: I don't think so, but I know the inbox will never store more than 50 messages. (Old ones either get deleted or just aren't accessible anymore.)
23:49 <ivantis2> Pathetique???
23:49 <ivantis2> is on?
23:49 <coldcrow> #tea
23:49 <@armabot> coldcrow: Fortress Café: Players (12/32): .dBd|Pathetique, 2020, DatSunny, Hedera, Lackadaisical, madmax, myte, noob13, noobSaibot, Radian, |x|Cid, °höMö
23:50 <ivantis2> #sd -v fortress caf
23:50 <@armabot> ivantis2: Fortress Café (armagetron.at:4539) running 0.2.8_alpha20090228 unix dedicated, url: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/, Description: “This is a fortress server. Expect to be kicked if you don't know how to play. To learn how to play try http://wiki.armagetronad.net/“, Players (12/32): .dBd|Pathetique, 2020, DatSunny, Hedera, Lackadaisical, madmax, myte, noob13, noobSaibot, Radian, |x|Cid, (1 more message)
23:50 <Lackadaisical> ah ok thanks.. i couldn't find one and i was starting to  doubt if i ever sent it
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