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Log from 2008-12-29:
--- Day changed Mon Dec 29 2008
00:01 <wrtlprnft> err
00:02 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer: that line to luke-jr above should have pinged you
00:05 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-120-107.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
00:15 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: wtf? those are the same thing?
00:15 <luke-jr> oh, smart vs shared
00:20 <smoothice> luke-jr: where did "tronner" go?
00:20 <smoothice> luke-jr: the bot
00:20 <K-Yo> smoothice, we removed it
00:20 <smoothice> K-Yo: why?
00:21 <PinkTomato> it's ct's/p4's bot?
00:21 <K-Yo> PinkTomato, yes
00:21 <K-Yo> smoothice, I don't know, I can bring it back
00:21 -!- tronner [i=p4@unaffiliated/tronner] has joined #armagetron
00:21 <smoothice> K-Yo: ok........?
00:21 <K-Yo> here
00:21 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-120-107.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #armagetron []
00:21 <K-Yo> haha
00:21 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-120-107.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
00:22 <K-Yo> ct|kyle, why did you removed tronner from #armagetron?
00:23 <K-Yo> #last --with=part
00:23 <@armabot> K-Yo: [21:35:20] <ct|kyle> .part
00:23 <smoothice> .seen ct|kyle
00:23 <tronner> smoothice: ct|kyle was last seen in #armagetron 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <ct|kyle> .part
00:25 <K-Yo> ct|kyle, I've put it back, If I was wrong to do so, feel free to re-remove it :P
00:28 <smoothice> K-Yo: How does one make a bot using Supybot?
00:28 <K-Yo> smoothice, I don't know, you probably need a machine to host it
00:28 <teabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-work] r728 Updated windows project to use the new src/source directory....
00:28 <smoothice> K-Yo: What is teabot?
00:28 <K-Yo> smoothice, P4 did tronner and is the one who knows it best
00:28 <K-Yo> smoothice, teabot is a supybot too, owned by epsy I think
00:29 <K-Yo> @users
00:29 <K-Yo> @user list
00:29 <teabot> K-Yo: epsy, hoax, hoop, jardvar, K-Yo, Liza, parasti, and xfroggy
00:30 <smoothice> @user list
00:30 <teabot> smoothice: epsy, hoax, hoop, jardvar, K-Yo, Liza, parasti, and xfroggy
00:36 <P4> tommorrow 0900gmt tronner will be down for few hours
00:38 <ct|kyle> .part
00:38 -!- tronner [i=p4@unaffiliated/tronner] has left #armagetron ["ct|kyle"]
00:43 -!- ivantis2 [n=Android@m440436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #armagetron
00:45 -!- ivantis2 [n=Android@m440436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit]
00:56 -!- hang3r [n=nathan@ppp59-167-104-56.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:11 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit ["Quitte"]
01:23 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-120-107.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
01:25 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-101-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
01:25 <smoothice> luke-jr: Why is sty patch not compatible with latest arma trunk?
01:25 <luke-jr> smoothice: sty patch is based on old zones
01:26 <luke-jr> trunk has zones v2
01:26 <smoothice> Wait... What really _is_ zones v2?
01:26 -!- Goodygumdrops [n=Goodygum@h124.144.88.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #armagetron
01:26 <smoothice> What can you do with them?
01:27 <luke-jr> supposedly anything?
01:27 <luke-jr> I don't know.
01:27 <luke-jr> ph wrote them before he disappeared
01:27 <smoothice> ph?
01:27 <luke-jr> phillipeqc or something spelled like that ;)
01:29 <teabot> armacommits: [smoothice] r729 Merge from mainline
01:30 <luke-jr> …
01:30 <smoothice> ???
01:30 -!- Goodygumdrops [n=Goodygum@h124.144.88.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #armagetron []
01:31 <smoothice> luke-jr: "..." ?
01:31 <Lucifer> wrtlprnft: I don't know that it matters, I used smart_ptr because those were the docs I was reading at the time :)
01:32 <Lucifer> wrtlprnft: I also don't think it's being used at all yet
01:33 <Lucifer> smoothice: there's a bit of a story in the zone code
01:33 <Lucifer> do you want to hear it?  :)
01:33 <smoothice> Lucifer: sure
01:33 <Lucifer> ok, here goes
01:34 <Lucifer> luke-jr came out of nearly nowhere wanting to add multiple axes support to arma, and philippeqc (henceforce called ph) was working on maps
01:34 <Lucifer> this was before, but after
01:34 <Lucifer> those were the two big features added for 0.2.8
01:34 <Lucifer> during beta, I was running the first ever map rotating server, called The Crack Pipe, and people loved it
01:34 <Lucifer> there was a player, named zig (who I've seen recently), who asked if we could do capture the flag
01:35 <Lucifer> after thinking about it, I proposed on the forums that if the zones as they were then had certain traits (which they had), then it would be worth adding to 0.2.8 something resembling capture the flag
01:35 <Lucifer> z-man and ph got together and worked out what became fortress, generalizing as much as they could within the limitations of the code at the time, and ensuring backwards compatibility to older clients
01:35 <luke-jr> Lucifer: fwiw, the axes came with maps ;)
01:36 <Lucifer> luke-jr: I thought the two came together only after you and ph got together, but it doesn't matter really, because you and he got together and did the deed in any case :)
01:36 <smoothice> Lucifer: uh huh
01:36 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/hexatron/ is still up :þ
01:36 <Lucifer> anyway, fortress and the level of generalization that allowed sumo to develop from there are both heavily based on the old fortress zones
01:37 <Lucifer> er, old zones, I mean
01:37 <Lucifer> ph had a big brainstorm as a result of the work, however, and decided to completely rewrite the zone code to accomodate its use for other purposes
01:37 <Lucifer> since we had a proof of concept going into the 0.2.8 release (which turned out to be immensely popular, so if you see zig on the grid, thank him for being the catalyst)
01:37 <Lucifer> that rewrite became zones v2
01:38 <Lucifer> it was originally titled Shaped Zones, iirc
01:38 <smoothice> uh huh
01:38 <Lucifer> you'll have to read the docs, but it was basically the compelte generalization of what made a fortress zone, and the settings that go with it, incorporated into maps, and a number of targets of opportunity
01:38 <smoothice> Lucifer: So what can zones v2 do differently than v1?
01:38 <Lucifer> while he was working on that, groundpig came along wanting to hack together a soccer game
01:38 <Lucifer> as I said, you'll have to read the docs, they're on the wiki
01:39 <Lucifer> so groundpig wanted soccer, and he wanted it compatible with old clients
01:39 <Lucifer> he worked it up using the old zones code, and at this point an actual argument commenced between me and ph
01:39 <luke-jr> where did groundpig vanish to anyhow? :/
01:39 <Lucifer> I wanted to try to get groundpig to hook up with ph so that what ultimately became the sty patch could be incorporated into the design of zones v2
01:40 <Lucifer> ph said it was too much for zones v2, but zones v3 would be designed with that in mind
01:40 <Lucifer> when the two finally hooked up, they had a bit of a personality clash, which is weird because nobody ever clashes with ph
01:40 <Lucifer> so sty ended up based on the old zones, and then groundpig disappeared
01:40 <Lucifer> ph tried very hard to add at least the base functionality to zones v2, but couldn't see it and decided it really needed to wait for zones v3
01:41 <Lucifer> anyway, the reason it's called the "sty patch" is obviously a pun on groundpig's name, and the soccer game he created was called styball
01:41 <Lucifer> he added ctf after he did styball because he'd gotten his head wrapped around how to make a zone move
01:42 <luke-jr> groundpig named his server the Pig Sty
01:42 <smoothice> I remember that server
01:42 <Lucifer> his server kept running for awhile after he disappeared, but if you remember the server, it's possible you ran into the programmer :)
01:42 <Lucifer> it was somewhat popular, styball was, but ctf was even more popular, and for a time looked like it would eclipse fortress in popularity
01:43 <Lucifer> but alas, I think we created a completely new type of game when fortress hit the streets, and it's not dying anytime soon
01:43 <Lucifer> what's I find really neat about fortress is that as an intensely competitive team game, so it also came out of an intensely collaborative development team
01:43 <luke-jr> curiously, hoop has a hacked client that supports custom zone shapes
01:44 <Lucifer> I was vaguely aware of hoop's work, but not nearly as aware/involved as I was with sty, since I wound up being groundpig's "friend on the dev team" when he was doing it
01:44 <Lucifer> even so, groundpig did all the work :)
01:44 <Lucifer> so basically, we can't add the sty patch to the 0.2.8 branch until the trunk supports the same functionality
01:45 <Lucifer> the functionality has to be implemented in a way that's consistent with all the goals/parameters of the zones rewrite
01:45 <smoothice> Is it logical to port sty to zones v2?
01:45 <Lucifer> no, zones were completely rewritten in zones v2
01:45 <Lucifer> they're apples and oranges at this point
01:45 <Lucifer> however, it shouldn't be too hard to add it, really
01:45 <Lucifer> or so I think
01:46 <Lucifer> you need to have zones taht can be owned by players/teams, and can be picked up (the flag) and moved with the cycle
01:46 <smoothice> yeah
01:46 <Lucifer> ph may have done that, I don't know.  It was styball he was mostly worried about
01:46 <smoothice> But won't some of the sty patch's code sortof work/
01:46 <Lucifer> to get styball, you have to have zones that move on their own and react to the environment
01:46 <Lucifer> it's unlikely much of the sty patch's code will work, mainly because it wasn't well-designed in the first place
01:47 <Lucifer> groundpig is a good guy, and a good programmer, but he didn't apply high standards of quality to the patch :/
01:47 <smoothice> :/
01:47 <Lucifer> which makes accepting the patch into 0.2.8 at any point problematic, because we'd have to adopt his hack, and we have identified a few bugs that are terribly annoying and difficult to fix
01:47 <Lucifer> as a group, our attitude is that it's a wonderful addition to the game
01:48 <Lucifer> but we've discussed it more or less ad nauseum and it's unlikely to ever be accepted as-is
01:48 <smoothice> yeah
01:48 <Lucifer> unless someone were willing to address the concerns and adopt maintenance of the code
01:48 <Lucifer> so if you want to join the dev team, there's a path you can follow to do it, more than likely
01:48 <smoothice> But I thought 0.2.8 was under feature freeze..?
01:48 <Lucifer> 1) add ctf/styball to the trunk, consistent with the design of zones v2
01:49 <Lucifer> 2) fix the sty patch so it meets reasonable standards of quality and doesn't leak memory any more
01:49 <Lucifer> 3) there is a feature freeze for, but I feel about 60% confident we can get if you've done both 1 and 2
01:50 <smoothice> On the forums someone said there were "a lot of new stuff in 2.8.3"
01:50 <Lucifer> do 2) in your own bzr branch, so it's ready to be pulled after is released :)
01:50 <smoothice> What is that new stuff?
01:50 <Lucifer> I forget, it's a lot of little things, though
01:50 <Lucifer> but it's a *lot* of little things
01:50 <smoothice> oh ok
01:50 <Lucifer> authentication is the big thing, iirc
01:51 <smoothice> I have doubt I'd be able to add ctf/styball to the trunk, consistent with the design of zones v2
01:51 -!- hang3r [n=nathan@ppp59-167-104-56.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #armagetron
01:51 <luke-jr> Lucifer: did branch, btw?
01:51 <Lucifer> there is an alternative to that :)
01:51 <smoothice> alternative?
01:51 <Lucifer> make a hack for it, and make a patch, and ask for a review
01:52 <smoothice> a hack for what?
01:52 <smoothice> zones v2?
01:52 <Lucifer> then you'll get comments from somebody (either me, wrtlprnft, or z-man, more than likely) about how to make it consistent with the design of zones v2
01:52 <Lucifer> no, hack for ctf/styball for the trunk
01:52 <smoothice> oh
01:52 <smoothice> So trunk has zones v2?
01:52 <Lucifer> zones v2, more than anything else, is an idea on how the game will move forward to make many different games possible within the arma framework
01:52  * luke-jr wonders if branching will cause chaos in the svn-bzr syncing
01:52 <Lucifer> trunk has zones v2, and it's finished, afaik
01:53 <Lucifer> luke-jr: it shouldn't, but it may wind up the first release branch created in bzr
01:53 -!- PinkTomato [n=Sam@5ac9eb9c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:53 <Lucifer> I expect the branch will happen at the same time the first beta is released, which is any day now (except the de facto release manager is on vacation in the world of Lisbions right now)
01:54 <Lucifer> wrtlprnft: what do you think about releasing 0.3.1 without a new sound engine?
01:54 <luke-jr> I guess it'd just be a normal svn branch followed by the usual bzr syncing
01:54  * Lucifer has just thought that it would be worthwhile to get zones v2 out in the world
01:54 <Lucifer> luke-jr: I'd expect that, too, to be honest
01:55 <Lucifer> might do that for 0.3.1, even
01:55 <Lucifer> I'm going to go bump the 0.3.1 release thread
01:55 <Lucifer> or make a new thread
01:56 <BabyBug> <3 Lucifer
02:00 <teabot> armablah: Halfbakery: Protron <http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Protron>
02:05 <Lucifer> #ping
02:05 <@armabot> pong
02:06  * BabyBug pongs at Lucifer 
02:06 <Lucifer> grrrr, we need to fix our internet
02:06 <BabyBug> O.o
02:06 <Lucifer> only the web runs slowly, everything else (like irc) is perfectly fine
02:09 <smoothice> #ping
02:09 <Lucifer> apparently I can't post from this connection, and that's the problem
02:09 <@armabot> pong
02:10 <Lucifer> someone here willing to copy and paste a post to the forums for me?
02:10 <smoothice> sure
02:11 <Lucifer> got an email I can send it to?  :)  (also copy and paste relevant irc discussion so people know it is me, even though they can tell from the writing anyway)
02:11 <smoothice> eh
02:11 <BabyBug> hrmmm Lucifer, that could be quite offensive to some people....
02:11 <smoothice> luke-jr: you do it... :P
02:12 <Lucifer> wait, lemme try a different browser first :)
02:13 <smoothice> Lucifer: IRC ping... 1.21 seconds
02:13 <smoothice> lol
02:14 <smoothice> in the arma source how do I console out only to a certain player?
02:14 <BabyBug> player_message? or message_player?
02:15 <smoothice> hmmmmm
02:15 <BabyBug> should be able to find out how from knowing that =P
02:16 <smoothice> I can?
02:17 <smoothice> How? Where?
02:17 -!- sinewav [n=sinewav@adsl-76-197-243-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
02:18 <BabyBug> How am i meant to know? =)
02:18 <smoothice> >.<
02:19 <smoothice> What file handles player messaging?
02:21 <smoothice> And what's tOutput versus tString?
02:21 <smoothice> What's the difference?
02:23 <BabyBug> The difference is what you can't see =)
02:23 <smoothice> huh?
02:31 <BabyBug> Exactly!
02:31 <smoothice> NO difference?
02:31 <BabyBug> I never said that.
02:31 <BabyBug> I just said you can't see it, can you not?
02:32 <smoothice> No I cannot
02:32 <BabyBug> Well that's the difference
02:33 <smoothice> The difference is there is no difference?
02:33 <BabyBug> No. The difference is what you can't see.
02:34 <smoothice> What about functionality difference?
02:36 <BabyBug> Well if you knew that, you'd be able to see it.
02:36 <smoothice> What is the functionality difference?
02:39 -!- Ady-Lucifer [i=Admin@137.Red-81-36-199.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #armagetron
02:42 -!- GodTodd [n=TheTruth@pool-173-71-45-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:03 -!- ivantis2 [n=Android@m440436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #armagetron
03:03 <ivantis2> so why was i banned?
03:04 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-101-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #armagetron []
03:08 <ivantis2> ??????
03:11 -!- hang3r_ [n=nathan@ppp59-167-104-56.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #armagetron
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03:35 -!- Ady-Lucifer [i=Admin@137.Red-81-36-199.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [":)"]
03:37 <Lucifer> #ping
03:37 <@armabot> pong
03:37 <Lucifer> can anybody else here post on the forums right now?
03:38 -!- SageLord [n=aaron_wo@ppp-70-242-255-9.dsl.bumttx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
03:42 <sinewav> I can
03:43 <Lucifer> would you be willing to post as a proxy for me?  :)
03:43 <Lucifer> I can't, for some reason
03:43 <Lucifer> it may also be that I can't send you an email, either, since I'm having trouble sending email right now :/
03:44 <sinewav> sure, what do you need?
03:45 <Lucifer> start a thread under Development with content I give you, and make sure to say that it's from me (like [quote=Lucifer from IRC])
03:45 <Lucifer> copy and paste this short conversation we just had into it as authentication :)
03:46 <Lucifer> and if I can figure out how to send you the content besides copy and pasting here, I will
03:46 <Lucifer> or I'll just paste it here
03:46 <Lucifer> the thread should be titled "0.3.1 - Let's release it :)"
03:46 <sinewav> pasted
03:47 <Lucifer> I don't really want it to be a irc copy and paste for the main content, though, unless it's fairly easy to sanitize
03:47 <Lucifer> Ok, I've been doing some thinking.  As far as I know, the only thing we're really hanging up on for 0.3.1 is the new sound engine.  I don't think even the resource work is needed for what's there and ready to ship.
03:47 <Lucifer> I just got into yet another long conversation on why we won't accept the sty+hoop stuff into 0.2.8, and recalling a conversation with z-man some time ago on the subject.  One of the big hangups with it (besides the obvious fact that we want to permanently kill 0.2.8 pretty soon) is that until the trunk can offer the same functionality, we can't take it into 0.2.8, because that will just add more reasons we can't release
03:47 <Lucifer> 0.3.1.
03:47 <Lucifer> Switch gears for a minute.  Even if I start working on the sound engine tonight, it won't be ready for several months, more than likely.  It's got serious dependencies on changes in the resource system, and epsy argues that it also depends on the event branch he created (I disagree, but until it actually runs, there's no point in arguing).
03:47 <Lucifer> I propose we set the following development release goals:
03:47 <Lucifer> * 0.3.1 - just release off the trunk asap
03:47 <Lucifer> * 0.3.2 - new sound engine, possibly event framework
03:47 <Lucifer> * 0.3.3 - event framework, possibly GUI rewrite
03:47 <Lucifer> * 0.3.4 - new translation system (we've been slowly working towards gnu gettext, right?), first shot at finally assimilating all the existing construction sites (mostly hooking the cockpit into the event framework and gui system if it isn't already)
03:47 <Lucifer> Also, scripting should hopefully continue to progress throughout the releases made.
03:47 <Lucifer> We'll have to break our promise (mostly my promise) to restore the cycle sound in 0.3.1, but at this point, I think it's the right thing to do.  We're not getting anywhere without the 0.3.1 release, and we've had a number of prospective drive-by contributors that either wound up doing nothing, or continuing to patch 0.2.8.  We can't get them to contribute to the trunk without releases from the trunk, and that's mostly my
03:47 <Lucifer> fault, I suspect.  So let's make another release.
03:47 <Lucifer> Any objections?
03:48 <Lucifer> so, that's the whole content
03:48 <Lucifer> damn, Kmail isn't succeeding in sending my outgoing email
03:49 <Lucifer> not a good time to lose email!
03:50 <BabyBug> why's it not a good time? O.o
03:50 <Lucifer> email from a girl "OKay baby, it's Sunday night, when can we hook up?"
03:50 <Lucifer> FUCK!  I can't answer this email!
03:50 <Lucifer> I don't have her number!
03:51 <Lucifer> it's like I have read-only internet
03:51 <Lucifer> #ping
03:51 <@armabot> pong
03:51 <BabyBug> what's her email? I'll hook up with her =D
03:53 <Lucifer> ok, I'm going to reset my router and see if that helps
03:53 <sinewav> ok, almost done proofing
03:55 <sinewav> done.
03:56 <Lucifer> sinewav: thanks :)
03:56 <sinewav> np
03:57 <sinewav> did you want the smiley in the title and emoticon? I don't know how to do that
03:57 <sinewav> an*
03:58 <Lucifer> no, I don't think it can be made an emoticon, but even if it can, I don't care :)
03:58 <sinewav> k
03:59 <Lucifer> read-only interenet access sucks (especially when I *can* write to irc)
04:01 <sinewav> that's crazy man. is it some kind of browser crash?
04:01 <Lucifer> I blame my ISP, to be honest
04:02 <Lucifer> none of my browsers will let me send a POST request to a website
04:02 <Lucifer> KMail is failing to reach google's smtp server
04:02 <Lucifer> I switched from someone else's open wireless network yesterday when it went down, back to the encrypted one available in my house (and managed by my roommate)
04:09 <Lucifer> well, suddenly,  I can post to the forums again
04:09 <Lucifer> #ping
04:09 <@armabot> pong
04:17 <SageLord> #ping
04:17 <@armabot> pong
04:21 <Lucifer> ok, we'll try IE
04:21 <Lucifer> I'm going to be really angry if my ISP has fucked me so badly I have to use IE
04:22 <sinewav> wow IE.
04:23 <sinewav> that's some pretty waek shit man
04:23 <Lucifer> looks like I removed it at some point
04:23 <sinewav> weak*
04:23 <Lucifer> sinewav: not when you've got 3 versions of IE installed and running at the same time :)
04:23 <sinewav> lol
04:23 <Lucifer> Konqueror will let me post to the forums, at least, but I"m still stuck out of gmail
04:25 <Lucifer> how about I just blame google?
04:27 <BabyBug> Lucifer, tried the basic html version? or are you using an email client?
04:27 <Lucifer> BabyBug: yes, yes, yes
04:27 <BabyBug> yes to which?
04:28 <Lucifer> With the basic html version, I can't send mail, but I can read it
04:28 <Lucifer> same with email client
04:28 <BabyBug> oh
04:28 <BabyBug> =(
04:28 <Lucifer> email client is IMAP, with SMTP outgoing
04:28 -!- sinewav is now known as sinewav_away
04:29 <Lucifer> Firefox won't POST to the forums, but two versions of Konqueror will
04:29 <Lucifer> Opera won't either
04:29 <Lucifer> My Opera needs to be ugpgraded, though
04:29 <BabyBug> well that sucks =(
04:33 <luke-jr> ♡ Konq
04:34 <Lucifer> and no unsecured wireless networks nearby
04:34 <Lucifer> luke-jr: Konqueror won't let me read gmail, though
04:34 <Lucifer> won't even download the page!
04:35 <Lucifer> #ping
04:35 <@armabot> pong
04:36 <luke-jr> Lucifer: IMAP
04:36 <Lucifer> IMAP is an email READING protocol
04:36 <Lucifer> email is still SENT with smtp
04:36 <Lucifer> and it's not working either, for some reason
04:37 <luke-jr> Lucifer: you just talked about reading gmail… shrug
04:37 <Lucifer> no, you just came in late
04:37 <luke-jr> Lucifer: ssh w/ port forwarding to hachi
04:37 <luke-jr> <.<
04:39 <Lucifer> I'd like to smack durka the next time he complains about glancing
04:39 <luke-jr> can I?
04:39 <luke-jr> actually, I think my real problem is just terrible FPS with trunk
04:39 <Lucifer> if you can physically smack durka, please do so as often as you can
04:39 <luke-jr> no, can I complain about stuff :þ
04:40 <luke-jr> when/if we ever get to releasing .4 or 1.0, I think we should do some optimization before bugfixing
04:40 <BabyBug> the glancing in 0.3 rocks \o/
04:40 <Lucifer> yes, the glancing in 0.3 rocks
04:41 <Lucifer> er, fix bugs, then optimize, then fix bugs, then optimize, etc, right?
04:41 <luke-jr> sure, whatever
04:41 <luke-jr> my point is that right now it's slow ;p
04:41 <Lucifer> well, I'm a go smoke while I'm waiting for IE to reinstall
04:41  * BabyBug agrees with luke-jr 
04:47 <Lucifer> well, ie6 doesn't work either
04:47  * Lucifer agrees with luke-jr too, but it has to get worse before it can get better
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04:52 <BabyBug> Can it get worse than 3 FPS? =P
04:53 <luke-jr> >_<
04:53 <BabyBug> exactly!
04:53 <Lucifer> yes, it can go to 2 fps
04:54 <Lucifer> it can also go to 1 fps
04:54 -!- sinewav_away is now known as sinewav
04:54 <BabyBug> i knew it... *sigh*
04:54 <Lucifer> and can even go lower, approaching 0 fps
04:54 <BabyBug> Lucifer, it's not good to be predictable! =P
04:54 <luke-jr> I've seen 0fps
04:57 <Lucifer> you've seen a framerate rounded to 0
04:57 <Lucifer> but you ought to know enough about math to know that 0 fps is impossible :)
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04:58 <BabyBug> Impossible is nothing!
04:59 <luke-jr> Lucifer: no, I've seen 0 fps
04:59 <luke-jr> also known as my effing PC locked up
05:00 <BabyBug> get a better pc
05:00 <Lucifer> ie6 can post just fine to the forums
05:01 <Lucifer> can't login to gmail, but can post to the forums
05:01 <BabyBug> i'm going to suggest your MTU settings is wrong in your router!
05:01 <Lucifer> MTU?
05:02 <BabyBug> i have no idea what it is either
05:02 <luke-jr> ROFL
05:02 <BabyBug> but i had problems similar to yours...changed it from 1454 to 1400 and everything worked perfect!
05:02 <luke-jr> BabyBug is probably right
05:02 <luke-jr> Lucifer: DSL?
05:02 <Lucifer> yes, dsl
05:03 <luke-jr> yah, that's it
05:03 <luke-jr> drop the MTU
05:03 <GodTodd> dsl, ftl
05:04  * BabyBug is a genius!
05:04 <Lucifer> it's 1500
05:05 <BabyBug> change it to 1400
05:05 <luke-jr> DSL can't do 1500
05:06 <ct|kyle> i have DSL and my MTU is 1500
05:07 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: liar
05:07 <ct|kyle> truth
05:07 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: liar
05:07 <ct|kyle> truth
05:07 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: liar
05:08 <BabyBug> luke-jr, you're wrong
05:08 <ct|kyle> I never changed it from default
05:08 <GodTodd> i'd drop it to 1400 myself
05:08 <ct|kyle> The normal MTU (Maximum Transmit Unit) value for most Ethernet networks is 1500 Bytes, 1492 Bytes for PPPoE connections, or 1436 for PPTP connections. For some ISPs you may need to reduce the MTU. But this is rarely required, and should not be done unless you are sure it is necessary for your ISP connection.
05:08 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: any sane DSL connection would default to a reasonable value
05:08 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: DSL is PPPoE
05:08 <GodTodd> had to do that for a few people when i did dsl support...you know...for a living ;)
05:09 <ct|kyle> GodTodd: that must have sucked LOL
05:09 <GodTodd> yup...it did
05:09 <GodTodd> and i was second tier...meant we got the *really* fucked people :)
05:10 <ct|kyle> i always got mad at them when i was locked out of specific sites
05:10 <ct|kyle> then they wanted me to transfer to their payed support
05:10 <GodTodd> although dialup connections on windows were the worst to tech
05:11 <GodTodd> not because they're hard...they're really easy but the users were, shall we say, not the brightest
05:11 <ct|kyle> LOL, Ya, I just dealt with that this weekend
05:11 <GodTodd> try walking a clueless person through a full nuke and pave...on the phone :/
05:12 <GodTodd> on win98 no less
05:12 <ct|kyle> heh, I had to walk my grandpa thought sending pictures, luckily i was there to help him
05:12 <GodTodd> a nuke and pave...in case you're wondering...is a full uninstall/reinstall of the tcp/ip stack
05:13 <GodTodd> very effective but also kinda dangerous if you don't know what you're doing
05:13 <ct|kyle> ya
05:14 <GodTodd> mac 9 dialup was a snap
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05:14 <ct|kyle> i have yet to get my hands dirty on a mac
05:14 <GodTodd> heh...i've not had to tech one hands on...just over the phone
05:15 <ct|kyle> maybe i'll call my ISP and ask them what the MTU should be
05:15 <GodTodd> although, i must admit, mac osx made dialup connections even easier to tech
05:16 <GodTodd> i get pissed when i have to call verizon tech support because they try to make me do all the level 1 teching that i've already done :)
05:16 <ct|kyle> GodTodd: ya, I know
05:16 <ct|kyle> I just say i did it even if i did not
05:16 <GodTodd> i've had to call twice...once the modem was bad...the second time was an unknown (until i called) outage
05:17 <GodTodd> heh...i actually do the level 1 stuff...it's really easy and stuff that i think of first anyway
05:17 <ct|kyle> surprisingly my modem never went out, My grandma's did, so i was in on the call for that
05:17 <GodTodd> heh
05:18 <GodTodd> sometimes it's hell to convince them that the problem is the equipment
05:18 <GodTodd> but when you have *no* lights except the one on the actual adapter and that one's blinking...it's probably bad hardware
05:18 <GodTodd> :)
05:18 <ct|kyle> ya
05:19 <ct|kyle> when i found it, first thing i did was check the voltage going into it
05:19 <ct|kyle> coming out of the adapter
05:19 <GodTodd> yep
05:20 <ct|kyle> I think that was the problem too
05:21 <GodTodd> heh...with the outage...that was funny...the dude on the phone said "okay we'll reset the modem from here" i said "will that fix the tv too?"
05:21 <ct|kyle> for about 4 hours i was locked out of Crazy-tronners.com, that was the last time i called them
05:21 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma, Did it fix it?
05:21 <GodTodd> he said "oh, that's out too?"  and i said "that's what i meant by i have no internet or tv"
05:22 <ct|kyle> heh
05:23 <GodTodd> overall, i've been impressed with FIOS tho
05:24 <ct|kyle> we have almost FIOS speed with just regular DSL, so we have not upgraded
05:25 <GodTodd> i'm dsl-gunshy and i didn't like time warner so fios was the way to go
05:25 <GodTodd> you must be close to the building
05:26 <GodTodd> do you know your loop length?
05:26 <ct|kyle> not really, no
05:26 <luke-jr> Time Warner's internet is pretty nice
05:26 <GodTodd> my time warner was down at least once a week
05:26 <GodTodd> it blew
05:26 <luke-jr> wier
05:26 <luke-jr> d
05:28 <hang3r> luke-jr: Whats the preferred way to submit a patch, against the latest stable branch? Or the one from the website? And whom do I submit it to
05:28 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:29 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma, any luck?
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> apparently, I can't change MTU on my router
05:29 <luke-jr> hang3r: bzr I guess
05:30 <ct|kyle> what router
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: some, I do have control of my router and can open ports
05:30 <Lucifer_arma> 3800HGV-B Gateway
05:31 <Lucifer_arma> what's DTIM period?
05:32 <GodTodd> ew...a 2wire *shudder* ;)
05:34 -!- smoothice [n=smoothic@97-122-101-112.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #armagetron
05:36 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma, what do you mean apparently? =\
05:36 <Lucifer_arma> BabyBug: it means that if I can change MTU, I haven't found where to do it yet
05:36 <smoothice> Lucifer_arma: What's the difference between tOutput and tString? BabyBug refuses to explain to me... >.<
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> smoothice: BabyBug (hi there!) doesn't know the different
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> tOutput should translate when it sees translation strings it knows
05:37 <smoothice> translation strings?
05:37 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma, are you using the 2wire's wireless or do you have another router in the mix?
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> using its wireless
05:38 <BabyBug> smoothice, I'm not mean, just not clever ^^
05:38 <smoothice> BabyBug: *sigh*... ok
05:38 <GodTodd> ah...the wireless on the 2wire sucks
05:38 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma, there will definatly be somewhere where you can change it...How do you know it's at 1500?
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> BabyBug: because I found a place where I can see what it is
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05:46 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma, have you tried putting it in the interfaces file?
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> mtu?
05:46 <GodTodd> yeah
05:46 <Lucifer_arma> so you're thinking it's the crappy wireless network?
05:46 <GodTodd> btw, 2wire appears to work best at mtu of 1492
05:47 <GodTodd> yep
05:47 <GodTodd> sounds like it
05:47 <GodTodd> i hated 2wires
05:47 <GodTodd> apparently they don't do too well at 1500 so, of course, it's default :)
05:48 <GodTodd> http://www.debianadmin.com/change-mtu-maximum-transmission-unit-of-network-interface.html
05:48 <GodTodd> worth a try
05:48 <Lucifer_arma> ok, done, now how do I reload that file?  ;)
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05:51 <BabyBug> /etc/init.d/networking restart? *shrugs* no idea..
05:52 <smoothice> How do you turn off the new camera mode thing in client 0.3?
05:53 <BabyBug> smoothice, you don't, it rocks!
05:53 <BabyBug> (there is no way)
05:54 <GodTodd>  /etc/init.d/networking restart is my guess :)
05:54 <BabyBug> ooo yay!
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> y'all forgot the sudo
05:54 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
05:54 <@armabot> pong
05:54 <smoothice> BabyBug: it does?
05:54 <GodTodd> well, yeah...sudo too :)
05:54 <BabyBug> smoothice, it does
05:55 <smoothice> BabyBug: just tell me how I turn it off...
05:55 <smoothice> BabyBug: please?
05:55 <BabyBug> smoothice, there is no way to turn it off...
05:55 <BabyBug> That's the way it works in 0.3
05:55 <BabyBug> you're talking about glancing..yeh?
05:55 <smoothice> the new glancing
05:55 <smoothice> method
05:55 <smoothice> feel
05:55 <BabyBug> ya, that's there to stay
05:55 <BabyBug> No way to change it
05:56 <smoothice> :(
05:56 <smoothice> Really?
05:56 <BabyBug> But it's alot better than 0.2 when you get used to it
05:56 <smoothice> Oh
05:56 <Lucifer_arma> no, still nothing's worked
05:56  * Lucifer_arma growls a bit
05:57 <GodTodd> hmmm
05:57 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma, when the router said MTU of 1500..Was it displaying the MTU for the network, or for the broadband link?
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> broadband link
05:57 <BabyBug> You'll need to find somewhere to change that then...
05:57 <BabyBug> in the router
05:58 <smoothice> BabyBug: So I just play more with 0.3 then to get used to it? If that's how it'll be for now on
05:58 <BabyBug> smoothice, yup. That glancing is here to stay.
05:59 <smoothice> BabyBug: There really is no way to turn it off?
05:59 <BabyBug> smoothice, nope, Lucifer_arma please back me up here =P
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> smoothice: there is *currently* no way to turn it off
05:59 <BabyBug> thank you, lol
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> also, if this is your initial knee-jerk reaction, please forget it
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> we don't react to knee-jerk reactions :)
05:59 <Lucifer_arma> try the new cameras out for awhile
06:00 <smoothice> knee-jerk?
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> the only person I know of whose used them for awhile and still hates them is Durka, but I don't believe he used them for awhile
06:00 <smoothice> Ok I'm not completely opposed to them.. just something new I didn't expect when I used 0.3 for the first time.
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, we're not getting rid of this camera behavior, and the cameras need significant rewriting to be able to support both
06:01 <smoothice> oh
06:01 <smoothice> Sorry for being.... opposed then :D
06:01 <smoothice> Didn't mean to be a knee-jerk.. whatever that means anyway
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> hey, being opposed after careful deliberation and exploring something is perfectly ok
06:01 <smoothice> ok
06:01 <Lucifer_arma> but if you take your first impression of something and come in here blasting at us for it, that' sa knee-jerk reaction :)
06:02 <smoothice> ok
06:02 <smoothice> Just wondering since I really like 0.3 features but wanted an 0.2 feel :D
06:02 <Lucifer_arma> every single new release contains changes that make some of the older players angry :)
06:03 <BabyBug> Like segmentation faults!
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> some of those changes are the result of bug fixes, heh
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> BabyBug: that's a feature, not a bug!
06:03  * BabyBug growls! =P
06:03 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, after watching people get their panties in a wad over the course of several releases, I've gotten pretty jaded
06:03 <smoothice> ok
06:03 <smoothice> I'll get used to it
06:04 <smoothice> If I don't I'll either quit tron or go back to
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> also, new players who have no frame of reference have had no problems with the camera in 0.3.0 :)
06:04 <smoothice> Yeah
06:04 <Lucifer_arma> heh, the camera code is a good place to get your hands dirty :)
06:04 <smoothice> lol
06:04 <smoothice> I'm not ready for that :D
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06:05 <smoothice> Not even close ready
06:06 <BabyBug> Router firmware should have a search function..So you can search for settings...Why hasn't anyone made that yet? ><
06:08 <Lucifer_arma> I'd be happy to write it, but how to get it on the router?  ;?
06:09 <BabyBug> ...
06:09 <smoothice> Lucifer_arma: Playing with 0.3 now on WW Ctf.. interesting feel
06:10 <hang3r> The glance keys are a failure :)
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> smoothice: if you hit left twice, you will be looking behind you
06:10 <hang3r> OH IM Sorry
06:10 <Lucifer_arma>
06:11 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma?
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> do you get anything when you hit that link?
06:12 <smoothice> Nope
06:13 <GodTodd> can't browse to it but i can ping it
06:13 <BabyBug> Lucifer_arma, somewhere there is a Force Upstream MTU field =P
06:13 <BabyBug> xD
06:14 <BabyBug> (Manuals are so helpful!)
06:14 <GodTodd> --- ping statistics ---
06:14 <GodTodd> 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 3008ms
06:14 <GodTodd> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 34.799/37.992/43.454/3.273 ms
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> BabyBug: apparently AT&T, when they branded this router, have removed a lot of crap
06:14 <Lucifer_arma> Maximum Transmission Unit (MTU):	1500
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it has a different configuraiton screen if you change the system password?  ;)
06:15 <BabyBug> oo Lucifer_arma..find the Management and Diagnostic Console...it's there...Could be referred to as MDC
06:15 <Lucifer_arma> oooo, found it
06:15 <BabyBug> \o/
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> ok, done
06:16 <Lucifer_arma> had to type "mdc" in the url myself to get it
06:16 <BabyBug> haha
06:16 <BabyBug> change it to 1400 =)
06:17 <hang3r> 1492 would be better
06:17 <smoothice> haha
06:17 <BabyBug> hang3r, setting it to 1400 would guarantee it fixes it, if that's the problem...
06:17 <BabyBug> it can be tweaked after =P
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> 1400 didn't fix it
06:18 <BabyBug> Did you even reconnect Lucifer_arma ><
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> er, no?
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> what I've read says I don't have to :)
06:18 <Lucifer_arma> my roommate might still be recording something, I better find out
06:19 <hang3r> Lucifer_arma: Are you using PPPOE or PPPOA?
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> hang3r: fuck if I know
06:19 <Lucifer_arma> MTU:	1400
06:20 <hang3r> if you have the ability to change it and if your provider supports it you may find PPPOE more stable over PPPOA, at least that is how I have found it in the past
06:21 <hang3r> if it was PPPOA and assuming your ISP actually set your MTU correctly, then 1500 is normal for PPPOA
06:22 <hang3r> if however, you are using PPPOE it is incorrect and will causing fragmenting
06:22 <hang3r> PPPOE has an 8bit overhead, thus 1492
06:23 <hang3r> err 8byte
06:23 <GodTodd> yeah...what i've read on 2wires is that 1492 is best
06:23 <BabyBug> hang3r, That's not always the case though...
06:24 <hang3r> BabyBug: It's only not the case if you providers DSLAM is ancient or they have no idea what they're doing
06:24 <GodTodd> well, it's at&t so that may be true ;)
06:25 <BabyBug> and what on earth is dslam...
06:25 <BabyBug> actually no...nvm
06:26 <GodTodd> it's the access multiplexer
06:26 <GodTodd> for dsl
06:26 <smoothice> What speed of DSL do you have Lucifer_arma?
06:26 <BabyBug> GodTodd, that still means nothing to me xD
06:26 <GodTodd> it's the big giant switchbox at at&t :)
06:26 <BabyBug> switchbox?
06:26 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-147-102.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
06:26 <GodTodd> yeah
06:27 <BabyBug> which is... =P
06:27 <GodTodd> ummm a box with switches?
06:27 <BabyBug> uhh...
06:27 <BabyBug> ok.... *clueless*
06:27 <GodTodd> heh
06:27 <GodTodd> it's the thing that lets dsl people out to the wild wooly internets
06:27 <GodTodd> :)
06:28 <hang3r> judging by lucifer lack of reply to my CTCP ping i'd say he is testing it
06:28 <GodTodd> heh i just tested mine a couple of times on dslreports
06:28 <BabyBug> <--- Really doesn't know diddly squat about computers...
06:30 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:30 <smoothice> haha
06:30 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
06:30 <GodTodd> after a degree and a half and a few years of "official" experience in the blasted things, i've picked up a thing or two about computers :)
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
06:31 <@armabot> pong
06:31 <BabyBug> try and explain what the frick the MTU is then =P
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> that was some killer latency
06:31 <Lucifer_arma> BabyBug: maximum size of ap acket?
06:31 <GodTodd> maximum transmission unit
06:31 <GodTodd> :P
06:31 <BabyBug> oh im not even gonna try to understand
06:32  * BabyBug will stick to Python, Arma, and the On button.
06:32 <smoothice> Well you _are_ a baby after all....
06:32 <smoothice> :P
06:32 <BabyBug> ....
06:33 <Lucifer_arma> well, my problem isn't fixed
06:33 <BabyBug> =(
06:33 <hang3r> Lucifer_arma: do you have line filters on all your telephony related devices? Or do you have a Central line splitter?
06:33 <Lucifer_arma> only telephone plugged in that I"m aware of is a VOIP phone
06:33  * BabyBug gives Lucifer_arma a hammer and then goes to her lair to sleep...night! \o
06:34 <GodTodd> you have an alarm system there at all?
06:34 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I set my upstream MTU to 1492
06:34 <hang3r> try that
06:34 <Lucifer_arma> DSLAM:	Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {GSPN} Specific: {0x153}
06:34  * GodTodd is trying to remember the level 1 dsl shit.
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on the 1492 setting right now
06:35 <smoothice> Lucifer_arma: What's your DSL speed?
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> Current Rate:		25216 kbs 		2048 kbs
06:35 <Lucifer_arma> Max Rate:		62236 kbs 		Not Available
06:35 <smoothice> That's DSL?
06:36 <smoothice> Digital Subscriber Line? 25 megabits?
06:36 <hang3r> You're sync'ed quite high, that would indicate that you have a good connection, it may be a provider problem lucifer
06:36 <hang3r> nothing anyone tells you here will help
06:37 <hang3r> contact them and bs to them telling them when it rains you get strange packet loss and cant browse the internet
06:37 <GodTodd> haha
06:37 <hang3r> pretend you know nothing about "the internet" and how it works
06:37 <hang3r> that's the only way they will even investigate your problem
06:38 <GodTodd> also, don't volunteer that you run linux
06:39 <GodTodd> last i knew, isp support of linux was "give them settings and get them off the phone"
06:40 <smoothice> lol
06:40 <GodTodd> though, it does sound like a 2wire or line problem
06:41 <GodTodd> is there a computer hooked directly to the gateway?
06:41 <hang3r> hes not responding to pings again
06:41 <GodTodd> ah
06:41 <hang3r> i'd say he is testing
06:41 <GodTodd> heh
06:41 <GodTodd> yep
06:42 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:43 <hang3r> well im going back to playing tremulous, someone tell him to contact his provider
06:43 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
06:44 <@armabot> pong
06:45 <Lucifer_arma> I want to blame the encryption
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07:33 <luke-jr> anyone want unlimited Arma hosting for $50/mo? >.>
07:34 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
07:34 <Lucifer> it's the wireless that's fucked up
07:34 <Lucifer> I just plugged my own router in and it seems to be working fine
07:35 <luke-jr> it's MTU
07:37 <GodTodd> Lucifer, as i said, 2wire's wireless sucks :)
07:37 <Lucifer> indeed, it was because you said that that I plugged in my own router to see what happened :)
07:37 <GodTodd> yep
07:37 <GodTodd> i should have suggested that myself
07:37 <GodTodd> heh
07:39 <GodTodd> i might bite the bullet and upgrade to 8.10 this week
07:39 <Lucifer> I'm not, my computer isn't fast enough for KDE4 yet
07:39 <luke-jr> Lucifer: turn off the effects
07:39 <Lucifer> except, I don't know, maybe the 2wire's wireless was the cause of my memory leak
07:39 <luke-jr> oh, that
07:40 <GodTodd> my only concern is the wireless card...but all reports indicate they may have the broadcom shit fixed now
07:40 <luke-jr> just kill plasma and restart it every few days
07:40 <luke-jr> maybe more often if yuo use nVidia
07:41 <GodTodd> kde4 definitely looks different
07:41 <GodTodd> i upgraded my wife's laptop and the kitchen machine a while back
07:41 <luke-jr> tbh, about the only real difference I note is the taskbar being black by default
07:42 <GodTodd> nah...the menus are way different
07:42 <GodTodd> on my wife's at least
07:42 <GodTodd> i don't go on the kitchen machine a lot
07:42 <luke-jr> oh
07:42 <luke-jr> I didn't really use KDE 3 menus
07:42 <luke-jr> I only use KDE 4's because it lacks a quicklaunch
07:43 <GodTodd> no quicklaunch?
07:43 <GodTodd> :/
07:43 <luke-jr> supposedly 4.2 will have it
07:43 <luke-jr> hopefully 4.2 will bring a usable calendar too
07:43 <GodTodd> when's that due out?  any target date yet?
07:44 <luke-jr> Q1 2009 AFAIK
07:44 <GodTodd> not too long then
07:45 <GodTodd> i mean...no quicklaunch isn't a dealbreaker but it's kinda handy sometimes
07:45 <GodTodd> heh
07:46 <luke-jr> January 27th, 2009: Release KDE 4.2
07:46 <GodTodd> i imagine ubuntu would push that through updates
07:46 <luke-jr> December 16th, 2008: Release KDE 4.2 Beta 2
07:46 <luke-jr> On 18th December 2008, KDE 4.2 Beta 2 a.k.a. "Canaria" was released by the KDE community,
07:46 <luke-jr> they're only slightly behind schedule
07:47 <GodTodd> hrmm...you'd think they'd've spelled "canaria" with a "K" ;)
07:47 <Lucifer> #ping
07:47 <@armabot> pong
07:47 <luke-jr> http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.2_Feature_Plan
07:47 <luke-jr> amazing how they get to beta 2 with stuff still "TODO"
07:53 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
07:54 <@armabot> pong
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, now I'm setup
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> I put my router in a DMZ while I was at it, so now I have control of inbound stuff
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> so I can bring my server home, hopefully
07:58 <GodTodd> heh
07:59 <hang3r> luke-jr: KDE4 is completely different to KDE3.5 it's not even remotely the same in any way shape or form
07:59 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
08:00 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
08:01 <Lucifer_arma>   <--- does that work?
08:01 <hang3r> It works!
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> does it really?  it doesn't work for me
08:02 <GodTodd> it said it did
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> *phew*
08:02  * Lucifer_arma briefly considers setting up a temporary webserver on this machine until he can go get the other one
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> hey, that means I can setup my master server again
08:02 <hang3r> and host bih again
08:03 <hang3r> the best server ever created
08:03 <GodTodd> does that mean my site would come back up then? ;)
08:03 <hang3r> or the crack pipe
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: when my server comes back, yes :)
08:04 <GodTodd> aight
08:04 <GodTodd> not rushing you
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> ok, do you get anything for http://www.davefancella.com
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> ?
08:05 <GodTodd> just curious :)
08:05 <GodTodd> verison login
08:05 <GodTodd> verizon*
08:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:05 <Lucifer_arma> verizon is your ISP, is it?
08:05 <GodTodd> yep
08:08 <hang3r> www is pointing at Lucifer_arma
08:08 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:10 -!- Lucifer_clone [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
08:10 <Lucifer_clone> ok, how about now?
08:11 <Lucifer_clone> #ping
08:11 <@armabot> pong
08:11 <hang3r> Name:   luciferarma.kicks-ass.net
08:11 <hang3r> Address:
08:11 <hang3r> works now
08:11 -!- Lucifer_clone is now known as Lucifer
08:11 <GodTodd> if the page can be trusted, it works ;)
08:11 <Lucifer> heh
08:11 <Lucifer> www.toddmacy.com gives the same page?
08:11 <GodTodd> yep
08:11 <Lucifer> well, that's something, at least
08:12 <Lucifer> GodTodd: for the website, I have rev 666
08:12 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
08:12 <Lucifer> have you committed anything since then?
08:12 <hang3r> will we see Breakfast in Hell again?
08:12 <GodTodd> ummm
08:12 <GodTodd> don't know?
08:12 <Lucifer> hang3r: possibly
08:12 <Lucifer> hang3r: no promises
08:13 <Lucifer> but hang3r: I'd like to run another arma server
08:13 <Lucifer> fuck, I don't even know if I have BIH settings anymore
08:13 <Lucifer> I vaguely remember putting them in the trunk so they wouldn't be lost
08:13 <hang3r> meh, don't bother, my ping to you used to be 220, now its 280
08:13  * Lucifer wonders if they're still there
08:13 <Lucifer> I am in a totally different place than I was during BiH's heyday :)
08:14 <Lucifer> GodTodd: committed anything since early august?
08:14 <GodTodd> i have rev 691 it looks like
08:14 <GodTodd> 8/16/08
08:14 -!- Stewah [n=AngryOve@c-67-171-182-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
08:15 <Lucifer> if I get it going from what I have right now, it may not be something that works at all
08:15 <GodTodd> true
08:15 <Lucifer> considering that I typically only svn update when you're having a problem, so I always have broken todd code :)
08:15 <GodTodd> heh
08:15 <Lucifer> otherwise, I do svn commit from my own directory
08:15 <Lucifer> I'll at least put a page up that says something about it being down, eh?
08:15 <Lucifer> at least right now people know it works ;)
08:16 <GodTodd> yep
08:18 <GodTodd> grrr...i was hoping to have this first draft done by the end of winter break
08:18 <GodTodd> not sure why i keep procrastinating
08:18 <GodTodd> heh
08:21 <GodTodd> #g 90000-6206
08:21 <@armabot> GodTodd: 90 000 - 6206 = 83 794
08:21 <GodTodd> #g 83794/14
08:21 <@armabot> GodTodd: 83 794 / 14 = 5 985.28571
08:21 <GodTodd> herk
08:21 <GodTodd> 6k words a day... :/
08:22 <GodTodd> #g 90000-18204
08:22 <@armabot> GodTodd: 90 000 - 18 204 = 71 796
08:23 <GodTodd> #g 71796/14
08:23 <@armabot> GodTodd: 71 796 / 14 = 5 128.28571
08:23 <GodTodd> eh...same diff
08:25 <GodTodd> #g 6000/250
08:25 <@armabot> GodTodd: 6000 / 250 = 24
08:25 <GodTodd> #g 5200/250
08:25 <@armabot> GodTodd: 5200 / 250 = 20.8
08:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer: i'll change that, then, so compiling on windows gets a little less messy
08:26 <GodTodd> bah, 3 pages a day difference...may as well stick with the one that has the most promise commercially :)
08:28 -!- Stewah_ [n=AngryOve@c-67-171-182-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
08:29 <Lucifer> well, I borked my svn checkout
08:29 <Lucifer> so I don't even have a todd directory anymore
08:29 <Lucifer> doh!  That was stupid
08:30 -!- Stewah [n=AngryOve@c-67-171-182-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
08:30 -!- Stewah_ is now known as Stewah
08:30 <Lucifer> GodTodd: what rev number do you have for the dave directory?
08:34 <Lucifer> ok, what do you see at http://www.davefancella.com/ now?
08:35 <Lucifer> somebody, anybody
08:35 <Lucifer> luke-jr: register and identify with armabot, and you can be op via armabot :)
08:36 <GodTodd> link's not opening
08:36 <Lucifer> er, what?
08:36  * Lucifer gets his site at localhost
08:36 <GodTodd> i have rev 691 in the dave dir
08:37 <GodTodd> last changed is 664
08:37 <Lucifer> can you zip up your checkout and send it to me?
08:37 <Lucifer> I don't know that there was any significant change, but I'm willing to lose a little bit if I can work on it
08:37 <Lucifer> I want to redesign the css
08:37 <Lucifer> new life, new website, eh?
08:37 <GodTodd> i can try...oddly enough i've never zipped anything up
08:37 <GodTodd> heh
08:37 <Lucifer> but if you can zip up the whole website directory, I can restore your website like it is
08:37 <Lucifer> well, tarball or whatever
08:38 <GodTodd> never done that neither
08:38 <Lucifer> link's not opening, though?
08:38 <Lucifer> #list
08:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, CIA, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Format, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Insult, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Nickometer, Owner, Plugin, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
08:38 <Lucifer> #list web
08:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: doctype, fetch, headers, netcraft, size, title, urlquote, and urlunquote
08:38 <GodTodd> nope...waiting for reply
08:38 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com
08:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
08:38 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/index.html
08:39 <Lucifer> what do you get when you ping www.davefancella.com ?
08:39 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
08:39 <Lucifer> er, nvm
08:39 <Lucifer> hmmmmmmmmmmm
08:39 <Lucifer> it should work, if it worked before, it should work now
08:40 <GodTodd> i can ping it
08:42 <GodTodd> when making a tar do you treat a directory like a big file?
08:42 <Lucifer> why would it work before and it doesn't work now?  :/
08:42 <GodTodd> like.... tar -cf dirname
08:42 <Lucifer> er, lemme get you a commandline
08:42 <Lucifer> :)
08:44 <Lucifer> tar -zvcf website.tar.gz website
08:44 <luke-jr> Lucifer: ok
08:46 <GodTodd> okay...how do you want me to send it?
08:47 <Lucifer> dcc, hang on, lemme open a port for it
08:51 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that was odd
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
08:53 <@armabot> pong
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch www.davefancella.com
08:54 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: Error: 'www.davefancella.com' is not a valid url.
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
08:54 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, I see supybot in the access log
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> so it's definitely getting here
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
08:58 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
08:58 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
08:59 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
09:04 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/dave
09:04 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/dave
09:05 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
09:05 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> what do y'all get at http://www.davefancella.com/dave ?
09:05 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as Lucifer
09:06 <Lucifer> none of the navigation should work, at least
09:06 <GodTodd> nada
09:07 <Lucifer> THIS MAKES NO SENSE!
09:07 <Lucifer> grrrr
09:12 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/dave
09:12 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
09:12 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/dave/index.html
09:12 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
09:12 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com
09:12 <@armabot> Lucifer: content-length: 45, accept-ranges: bytes, server: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.4 with Suhosin-Patch, last-modified: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:45:19 GMT, connection: close, etag: "196192-2d-44e62ee52adc0", date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:12:53 GMT, content-type: text/html
09:13 <Lucifer> so it'll literally only get that one page
09:13 <Lucifer> what about http://www.davefancella.com/mythweb/
09:14 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com
09:14 <@armabot> Lucifer: content-length: 45, accept-ranges: bytes, server: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.4 with Suhosin-Patch, last-modified: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:45:19 GMT, connection: close, etag: "196192-2d-44e62ee52adc0", date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:14:47 GMT, content-type: text/html
09:14 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
09:14 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:15 <GodTodd> nada on mythweb too
09:16 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
09:16 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:16 <Lucifer> nada meaning timeout?
09:16 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/mythweb
09:16 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
09:20 <GodTodd> yeah
09:20 <GodTodd> didn't connect
09:21 <Lucifer> hmmm, why can I get it, but you can't?
09:21 <Lucifer> that's the oddball question of the week
09:25 <GodTodd> dunno
09:25 <GodTodd> mythweb gives a database error now
09:26 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
09:26 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:26 <Lucifer> that's promising
09:26 <Lucifer> that's not promising, er
09:26 <Lucifer> does armabot cache pages?
09:26 <Lucifer> hey, did you try the dcc send yet?
09:27 <GodTodd> trying it now
09:28 <Lucifer> I accepted it
09:28 <Lucifer> you may need to open ports, I don't really remember
09:28 <Lucifer> it's been awhile :)
09:28 <Lucifer> ok, I think you do
09:28 <Lucifer> in SEttings->Configure Konversation (assuming you're using konversation), there's a listing on the left for "DCC"
09:28 <Lucifer> that'll tell you what port to open, anyway
09:29 <Lucifer> looks like 1026
09:29 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:29 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:29 <Lucifer> I'll bet armabot caches pages
09:29 <Lucifer> #list web
09:29 <@armabot> Lucifer: doctype, fetch, headers, netcraft, size, title, urlquote, and urlunquote
09:30 <Lucifer> #title http://www.davefancella.com/
09:30 <@armabot> Lucifer: Error: The command "title" is available in the Format and Web plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "title".
09:30 <Lucifer> #web title http://www.davefancella.com/
09:30 <@armabot> Lucifer: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4096 bytes.
09:30 <Lucifer> .ping
09:33 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:33 <@armabot> Lucifer: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
09:33 <Lucifer> not found?
09:33 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/
09:33 <@armabot> Lucifer: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
09:34 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/
09:34 <@armabot> Lucifer: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
09:35 <Lucifer> #headers http://www.davefancella.com/
09:35 <@armabot> Lucifer: content-length: 45, accept-ranges: bytes, server: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.4 with Suhosin-Patch, last-modified: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:45:19 GMT, connection: close, etag: "196192-2d-44e62ee52adc0", date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:35:11 GMT, content-type: text/html
09:35 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:35 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:35  * Lucifer hits his computer
09:37 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:37 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:38 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:38 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/resume/dave.html
09:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
09:38 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/resume
09:38 <@armabot> Lucifer: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
09:41 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:41 <@armabot> Lucifer: timed out
09:42 <Lucifer> #fetch http://www.toddmacy.com
09:42 <@armabot> Lucifer: '<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>\n'
09:42 <Lucifer> er, still had a connection failure :(
09:47 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
09:47 <@armabot> pong
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> it annoys me that everytime I change a setting in this router, it resets itself
09:47 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com
09:48 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
09:48 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: what do you get at http://www.davefancella.com/ now?  You may need to hold shift while you refresh (if you refresh)
09:48 <Lucifer_arma> dcc failed again, grrrr
09:49 <GodTodd> not sure i'm opening the port...:/
09:49 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know what else to do, I've opened all the ports
09:49 <Lucifer_arma> you go to your router to do that, right?
09:50 <GodTodd> is it the port forwarding thing?
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, and you give it your computer's internal IP address
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, for port forwarding
09:50 <Lucifer_arma> you tell it to forward, er, wait, I think we have a handy link for that somewhere in armaland
09:51 <wrtlprnft> 
09:51 <wrtlprnft> http://portforward.com/
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.portforward.com/
09:51 <Lucifer_arma> ah, wrtlprnft beat me to it
09:51 <wrtlprnft> :-)
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: does armabot cache pages #fetched ?
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> do you know do you know do you know?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> #help fetch
09:52 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: (fetch <url>) -- Returns the contents of <url>, or as much as is configured in supybot.plugins.Web.fetch.maximum. If that configuration variable is set to 0, this command will be effectively disabled.
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> #fetch http://www.davefancella.com/
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> a guy in another channel told me he got my website
09:52 <Lucifer_arma> what od you get?
09:52 <@armabot> Lucifer_arma: timed out
09:53 <wrtlprnft> i get it.
09:53 <hang3r> #fetch davefancella.com
09:53 <@armabot> hang3r: Error: 'davefancella.com' is not a valid url.
09:53 <Lucifer_arma> ok, cool thanks
09:53 <hang3r> #fetch www.davefancella.com
09:53 <@armabot> hang3r: Error: 'www.davefancella.com' is not a valid url.
09:54 <wrtlprnft> #fetch http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/date.php
09:54 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: 1230540843
09:54 <wrtlprnft> #fetch http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/date.php
09:54 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: 1230540845
09:54 <wrtlprnft> no, it doesn't cache
09:55 <wrtlprnft> The dead screens touch you. Try 'screen -wipe'.
09:55 <wrtlprnft> lol
09:55  * wrtlprnft loves the screen nethack messages
10:01  * Lucifer_arma needs to write more
10:01  * Lucifer_arma needs to go through his website and change all references to "my wife" to "my former psycho wife"
10:03 <GodTodd> there we go :)
10:03 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@75-13-83-46.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:03 <GodTodd> *almost* had it setup correctly
10:03 <GodTodd> heh
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, it's receiving now, cool :)
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> thanks!
10:04 <GodTodd> np
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> I should be able to get your site up with it, then, too
10:04 <GodTodd> not sure if i'll revamp it or not
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> you won't be able to make any changes the usual way (i.e. you'll have to go through me), but when I get the server back in here, we'll be back to normal
10:04 <GodTodd> i probably should sometime
10:04 <Lucifer_arma> that'll hopefully be sometime next week
10:05 <GodTodd> that's cool
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, I kind of have to revamp mine, part of the "start my new life"
10:05 <GodTodd> yeah
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> although, my website was always a little spire of independence in my marriage, so maybe it's no big deal now
10:05 <GodTodd> mine's just cuz i bore easily ;)
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> (she always wanted me to shut it down)
10:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh
10:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, I need to dig up my network switch and set it up using my desktop as the bridge
10:06 <Lucifer_arma> or, maybe I'll move the wireless card to my server and make that the bridge
10:06 <Lucifer_arma> my roommates will be pleased to know I sped up the internet
10:06 <GodTodd> i'm sure
10:07 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
10:07 <@armabot> pong
10:07 -!- SageLord [n=aaron_wo@ppp-70-242-255-9.dsl.bumttx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:36 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I found my network switch, but not the power adapter for it
10:42 <Lizmatic> *yawns*
11:06 -!- hang3r [n=nathan@ppp59-167-104-56.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
11:07 -!- hang3r [n=nathan@ppp59-167-111-14.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #armagetron
11:15 <Lucifer_arma> #ping
11:15 <@armabot> pong
11:23 -!- Stewah [n=AngryOve@c-67-171-182-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:32 -!- PinkTomato [n=sam@5ac9ebde.bb.sky.com] has joined #armagetron
11:49 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: ok, your site is back up
12:04 <PinkTomato> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/28/the-tubes-are-clogged/
12:04 <PinkTomato> akira_arma
12:04 <PinkTomato> it was level3 it seems ;)
12:04 <akira_arma> no shit
12:04 <PinkTomato> hehe
12:04 <akira_arma> i already found out yesterday ;)
12:05 <PinkTomato> :), sounds like it was pretty widespread too
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> that's interesting, because I was having problems and I'm on AT&T
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> but my problems went away when I plugged in my own router
12:14 <Lucifer_arma> I'm still blaming the wireless for it, but it's still interesting
12:18 <akira_arma> did anyone post anything about the reason?
12:20 <akira_arma> DoS or just screw up of the technicians there?
12:36 -!- PinkTomato [n=sam@5ac9ebde.bb.sky.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
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14:15 <teabot> armablah: What to do with a tube from a CFL that has broken electronics? <http://www.instructables.com/community/What_to_do_with_a_tube_from_a_CFL_that_has_broken_/>
14:35 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma, wow...i wonder how come neither site comes up for me... :/
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> hold shift while you refresh?
14:47 <Lucifer_arma> that forces the browser to clear its cache
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15:26 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma, did that and it doesn't load either page
15:30 <GodTodd> hmmm...i can ping both
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15:55 <Lucifer_arma> maybe just wait?
15:55 <Lucifer_arma> someone earlier was talking about AT&T having pretty bad outages
16:22 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-147-102.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
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17:48 <smoothice> When are we going to see out?
17:48 <akira_arma> hoepfully never
17:48 <smoothice> It was expected on the 25th?
17:48 <akira_arma> i cant ge t the glances to work like in
17:49 <akira_arma> which sucks
17:49 <akira_arma> :(
17:49 <akira_arma>*
17:50 <wrtlprnft> akira_arma: err, they shouldn't have changed all that much
17:50 <wrtlprnft> i think you're talking about 0.3.x
17:50 <akira_arma> yea
17:50 <akira_arma> 0.3
17:50 <smoothice> wrtlprnft: when are we going to see 2.8.3?
17:50 <wrtlprnft> well, != 0.3.1
17:50 <akira_arma> *new ones
17:52 <wrtlprnft> by the way, there's a new windows trunk build on aabeta with some minor fixes, for everyone who uses 0.3
17:52 <wrtlprnft> tbh, i think the default behavior sucks
17:52 <wrtlprnft> i have it set so the camera doesn't turn at all by itself
17:53 <wrtlprnft> and i use glances to rotate it by π/2 when i need to look at something else
17:53 <wrtlprnft> works great for fortress imho
17:53 <smoothice> I just built the 0.2.8 branch client and It seems all ready for
17:56 <ct|kyle> i think they are waiting on z-man to get back to package it up, Just my guess, I also think they have 2 bug fixes left
17:56 <wrtlprnft> err, my down key stopped working
17:57 <smoothice> ct|kyle: oh ok
17:58 <ct|kyle> heh, Just read on the forums from z-man, "That's basically what we're doing, apart from the fact that we're not just blindly building First, we're going to fix the bugs we can fix without a new release (there's a couple left), then there's an alpha build and we work from there. "
17:59 <ct|kyle> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=201564#201564
18:04  * luke-jr pokes z-man.
18:06 <z-man> what?
18:07 <luke-jr> z-man: is going to branch? ;)
18:07 <z-man> No.
18:07 <luke-jr> oh
18:07 <z-man> It's the final release in 0.2.8, so there's no need.
18:08 <luke-jr> what if I have a small enhancement? it needs to wait for trunk?
18:08 <z-man> YES.
18:08  * z-man is slighly annoyed because he's losing this whole day to merging 0.2.8 to trunk
18:09 <luke-jr> oh
18:09 <z-man> And it's the same every time.
18:10 <luke-jr> am I using update.py correctly? it seems to be implying Polish, French, Spanish, and Deutsch require updating
18:14 <z-man> Yes, they do require updating. I'll take a look at German, but the others are essentially community maintained, so they're supposed to be out of date.
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18:24 <@armabot> lpbugs: [312240] Polish language outdated for
18:24 <BabyBug> liar!
18:25 <luke-jr> BabyBug: know any non-English languages?
18:26 <BabyBug> Welsh, but arma doesn't need translating to that =P
18:26 <luke-jr> sure it does
18:26 <BabyBug> no it doesnt
18:26 <BabyBug> lol
18:26 <luke-jr> -.-
18:26 <BabyBug> anyone who knows welsh, knows english
18:27 <Lizmatic> What about a dutch version? :D
18:27 <luke-jr> Lizmatic: sure
18:28 <BabyBug> How do you translate anyway....
18:28 <luke-jr> Lizmatic: what is Dutch called in Dutch?
18:29 <ct|kyle> Lizmatic: BabyBug told me to ask you what her bra size is
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18:29 <BabyBug> i did? O.o
18:30 <ct|kyle> BabyBug: you did
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18:30 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad/bavarian!
18:30  * BabyBug checks the logs
18:30 <ct|kyle> 2 nights ago i think
18:31 <BabyBug> oh yeh, so i did...lmao
18:31 <BabyBug> well..i said ask her what she guesses to be precise =P
18:31 <Lizmatic> Luke-Jr: nederlands
18:31 <Lizmatic> ct|kyle: tell BabyBug that she should come over and find out.
18:31 <Lizmatic> xD
18:31 <luke-jr> Lizmatic: I mean the language
18:32 <Lizmatic> dutch called in dutch is nederlands o_O
18:32  * BabyBug face palms luke-jr 
18:32 <luke-jr> the language is called nederlands? O.o
18:32 <Lizmatic> yes..
18:32 <luke-jr> wtf
18:32 <Lizmatic> country: nederland , language: nederlands
18:33 <ct|kyle> BabyBug: go see Lizmatic so i can find out from her :P
18:33 <BabyBug> i don't know where she lives =(
18:34 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/nederlands.txt
18:34 <luke-jr> download and edit that
18:34 <luke-jr> then post it to forums ☺
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18:36 <smoothice> PinkTomato: hi
18:37 <ct|kyle> Lizmatic: BabyBug can't come over until you give her your address
18:38 <PinkTomato> hi smoothice :)
18:38 <BabyBug> who the frick has the time to translate all that O.o
18:39 <smoothice> How about y'all just use goog21:37 <@armabot> lpbugs: [312256] Armagetron website not available in Deutsch || [312255] Armagetron website not available in Spanish || [312254] Armagetron website not available in French || [312252] Armagetron website not available in Polish || [312248] Deutsch language outdated for || [312247] Spanish language outdated for || [312245] French language outdated for
21:44 <@armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r8699 /www/beta/trunk/www-aabeta/releases.php: new windows build for z-man's latest (and last) 0.2.8 merge. Compiles out of the box now except for changing python.bat and removing the (duplicate) definition of bool isblank(int)
21:44 <@armabot> Executed aauptest: /home/supybot/a
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23:02 <smoothice> What does se_PlayerNetIDs.Len() do?
23:03 <BabyBug> returns how many characters are in the players name... (total guess)
23:03 <smoothice> In this for statement
23:03 <smoothice> It reads
23:03 <smoothice>  int i = se_PlayerNetIDs.Len() - 1; i >= 0; i--
23:04 <smoothice> So that returns a for loop of each player
23:04 <smoothice> But how does it work?
23:05 <BabyBug> no idea
23:05 <smoothice> luke-jr: what does that do?
23:05 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Your_mom@pool-70-106-107-154.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
23:07 <Your_mom_arma> #ping
23:07 <@armabot> pong
23:07 <smoothice> #ping
23:07 <@armabot> pong
23:08 <smoothice> Lucifer_arma: what does se_NeedsServer do?
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23:25 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-200-179.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []
23:28 <ct|kyle> #google se_NeedsServer
23:28 <@armabot> ct|kyle: Search took 0.39 seconds: Armagetron Forums :: View topic - Code Modification Project - Kill ...: <http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=201378>; Index: language/english_base.txt ...: <>; Armagetron Advanced: src/engine/ePlayer.cpp File Reference: <http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/doxy/html/ePlayer_8cpp.html>; Armagetron Advanced: (2 more messages)
23:31 <smoothice> ct|kyle: thanks
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23:41 <wrtlprnft> sinewav: se_PlayerNetIDs is the list of all player network IDs (=clients)
23:41 <wrtlprnft> or actually the list of all players
23:41 <ct|kyle> wrtlprnft: you meant smoothice who just left
23:41 <BabyBug> lol
23:42 <wrtlprnft> probably
23:43 <sinewav> yeah, I was like, WTF?
23:43 <Your_mom_arma> s tab ftw
23:44 <wrtlprnft> :-)
23:44 <ct|kyle> ya :), I just happened to see he tabbed but the one he wanted left
23:44 <wrtlprnft> sinewav and smoothice look sorta similar

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.

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