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Log from 2008-02-21:
--- Day changed Thu Feb 21 2008
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00:24 <armabot> armagetronad: * resources/Ratchet/4Axe/Wacko/Blasted-2.aamap.xml: Resource by Ratchet
00:37 <armabot> armagetronad: * resources/Ratchet/4Axe/Wacko/Blasted-3.aamap.xml: Resource by Ratchet
00:53 <StickyNoob> #tea
00:53 <armabot> StickyNoob: Fortress Café: Players (0/32):
01:05 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8025 /private/z-man/clio/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Yay, std::vector parameters wrapped in all variants.
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02:47 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8026 /private/z-man/clio/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Creation and passing in of std::vector objects now works, too.
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02:57 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8027 /private/z-man/clio/ (proxy.hpp std_container.hpp): GCC 4.1 compatibility (ok,ok, standard compliance)
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03:30 <armabot> lpbugs: [192860] sumo zones don't collapse for lack of enemy zones anymore || [192766] Cycle turn sound doesn't play until until player dies || [192760] When player leaves in the middle of a round, their wall continues to stay || [192519] RFI: Ability for server operators to force failure of a (kick) poll with a remode admin command || [192223] Entering server management commands at the client console produces fatal error || [191999] E
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07:09 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: map previews are broken once more, probably a ruby/rmagick thing
07:09 <wrtlprnft> http://beta.armagetronad.net/resource-browser/resource/Ratchet/4Axe/Wacko/Blasted-2.aamap.xml
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07:26 <beta|AoS|> luke-jr: got the new server
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07:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: emphasis
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09:24 <flex> morning..
09:25 <flex> anyone even up or around? :p
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10:44 <wrtlprnft> flex: why?
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10:52 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: …
10:53 <luke-jr> Dynamic linking on your system is consistent… All done.
10:55 <wrtlprnft> ?
10:55 <wrtlprnft> ah
10:55 <wrtlprnft> well, why does it fail, then?
10:55 <wrtlprnft> maybe rebuild rmagick, anyways, it might be some ruby-specific thing
11:14 <flex> you both are really gay :D
11:20 <armabot> lpbugs: [193938] MOVE_TO makes the title screen appear on the trunk
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13:35 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8028 /private/z-man/clio/ (14 files in 4 dirs):
13:35 <armabot> armagetronad: Better template generation selection: previously, you'd always get
13:35 <armabot> armagetronad: std::vector<float> when you wanted std::vector<int>. Now, Int, LongInt,
13:35 <armabot> armagetronad: UnsignedInt, ShortInt... can be used as arguments to the With() instantiation
13:35 <armabot> armagetronad: functions.
13:49 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8029 /private/z-man/clio/dataconversion_extended.hpp: Just added comment.
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15:17 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8030 /private/z-man/clio/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Slightly Smarter way to handle ObjectWrapperAwares.
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15:24 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8031 /private/z-man/clio/ (5 files): Even less junk around ObjectWrapperAware.
15:27 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8032 /private/z-man/clio/iclassinfo.cpp: Smarter delegation order of Fetch...() function family.
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15:33 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8033 /private/z-man/clio/factory.hpp: Crashfix.
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15:39 <ady666> hi,how could i get server's ips
15:43 <ady666> apart of using my firewall or netstat...
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16:06 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8034 /private/z-man/clio/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
16:06 <armabot> armagetronad: Primitive wrappers now break instead of detach.
16:06 <armabot> armagetronad: Added support for proxy ownership changes.
16:16 <wrtlprnft> #rating wrltprnft@forums
16:16 <wrtlprnft> #rating 0:wrltprnft@forums
16:17 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I don't know anything about 'wrltprnft@forums'!
16:17 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I don't know anything about '0:wrltprnft@forums'!
16:17 <wrtlprnft> #rating wrtlprnft@forums
16:17 <armabot> wrtlprnft: I don't know anything about 'wrtlprnft@forums'!
16:17 <wrtlprnft> #rating 0:wrtlprnft@forums
16:17 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 0:wrtlprnft@forums is 351st with a rating of 1553-1603 (from 1551-1602)
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16:32 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
16:32 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 340th with a rating of 1555-1610 (from 1557-1607)
16:32 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: :D
16:32 <luke-jr> I'm a whole 2-7 points ahead XD
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16:52 <wrtlprnft> i was working on that
16:52 <wrtlprnft> 8. wrtlprnft@forums 1555 - 1600 1551 - 1602
16:52 <wrtlprnft> 9. luke@dashjr.org 1555 - 1610 1557 - 1607
16:53 <wrtlprnft> and i stopped being pinkish
16:53 <wrtlprnft> note that i don't get the reason why i'm before you in the ranking
16:53 -!- Bougo is now known as MrBougo
16:53 <luke-jr> .01 or such likely
16:54 -!- K-Yo [n=k-yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
16:55 <luke-jr> both of us still have a slight pink tint :/
16:56 <wrtlprnft> my live rating doesn't
16:56 <luke-jr> slight
16:56 <luke-jr> #rating forda$
16:56 <armabot> luke-jr: forda$ is 19th with a rating of 1680-1800 (from 971-1430)
16:56 <luke-jr> what I don't get is how he did that without increasing volatility
16:56 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i see it when i look at my lcd from a 10% angle
16:56 <luke-jr> &sel=0:wrtlprnft@forums
16:57 <K-Yo> #svn
16:57 <armabot> svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad <dirname>(more information: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Working_with_SVN)
16:59 <K-Yo> that is so cool
17:00 <wrtlprnft> ?
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17:04 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft: dling and compiling the very latest version :D
17:05 <wrtlprnft> :-)
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17:05 <K-Yo> where can I change screen settings?
17:06 <K-Yo> when I play arma, the luminosity gets lower after few minutes
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17:09 <wrtlprnft> luminosity? err, arma shouldn't change that
17:09 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's some display list bug
17:09 <wrtlprnft> what happens if you disable them?
17:09 <K-Yo> it's not an arma thing
17:09 <K-Yo> it's an ubuntu setting
17:10 <K-Yo> I found it :D
17:11 <K-Yo> but I have an armagetron bug
17:11 <K-Yo> just for you :D
17:12 <K-Yo> the clock on top of the screen is in a white square
17:13 <wrtlprnft> but the other gauges are all fine?
17:13 <wrtlprnft> the rounded ones
17:13 <K-Yo> yep
17:13 <K-Yo> yes
17:13 <K-Yo> only the clock
17:13 <wrtlprnft> maybe you have a partial download
17:13 <wrtlprnft> try rm -r ~/.armagetronad/resource/automatic/wrtlprnft
17:14 <K-Yo> no such file or directory
17:14 <K-Yo> I use svn
17:15 <K-Yo> I did not install it, just make, and make run to play
17:15 <wrtlprnft> rm -r resource/automatic/wrtlprnft
17:15 <K-Yo> I have svn stuff downloaded in ~/arma
17:15 <wrtlprnft> in the same dir you run make install in
17:15 <wrtlprnft> err
17:15 <wrtlprnft> make run i mean
17:16 <K-Yo> done
17:16 <K-Yo> no message
17:16 <wrtlprnft> that's fine
17:16 <wrtlprnft> unix commands aren't as chatty as windows ones, at least the traditional ones
17:16 <K-Yo> still the problem
17:17 <wrtlprnft> very weird
17:17 <K-Yo> the console downloaded benboisclock.png
17:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah
17:17 <wrtlprnft> that's the image that appears to be broken
17:17 <K-Yo> but I have white background now on menues
17:17 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: did you get Markov working yet?
17:17 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: no, i have no idea how
17:17 <luke-jr> ☹
17:17 <luke-jr> don't they have a FM?
17:17 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: did you get resource previews working yet?
17:18 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: no clue what's wrong ☺
17:18 <wrtlprnft> K-Yo: err, that shouldn't happen
17:18 <K-Yo> hum too bad
17:18 <K-Yo> you want me to send a report or something?
17:19 <wrtlprnft> maybe a screenshot :-D
17:19 <wrtlprnft> and check if you can view the images under resource/automatic/wrtlprnft
17:20 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: rmagick rebuilt
17:21 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/912743
17:24 <luke-jr> oh well
17:25 <K-Yo> what is the terminal cmd to open an image?
17:25 <luke-jr> gwenview some.png
17:26 <K-Yo> I don't have gwenview
17:26 <K-Yo> is it worst dling?
17:26 <luke-jr> then pick your fav image viewer -.-
17:26 <luke-jr> not like it matters
17:28 <wrtlprnft> kuickshow
17:28 <wrtlprnft> konqueror
17:28 <wrtlprnft> kolourpaint
17:28 <wrtlprnft> gimp
17:29 <wrtlprnft> even identify is enough for my needs
17:29 <luke-jr> krita
17:29 <luke-jr> display!
17:29 <wrtlprnft> even though you can hardly call it an image viewer
17:29 <luke-jr> display is
17:29 <K-Yo> I used eog
17:29 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: maybe it's something with his SDL-Image?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: but wouldn't other textures fail to load, too?
17:29 <K-Yo> where does arma saves screenshots on linux?
17:30 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: kuickshow tabcomplets faster than display
17:30 <wrtlprnft> K-Yo: screenshots/
17:31 <wrtlprnft> displ<tab> is longer than kui<tab>
17:31 <luke-jr> ok already
17:32 <wrtlprnft> oh, i forgot opera
17:32 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft: http://imagebin.ca/img/U5DDTAT.png
17:33 <wrtlprnft> oh, so it does load correctly
17:33 <wrtlprnft> except for the white bg where there shouldn't be one
17:34 * wrtlprnft thought the entire image was missing
17:35 <K-Yo> nonono
17:35 <K-Yo> sry if I explained badly
17:35 <K-Yo> :(
17:35 <luke-jr> why is the clock an oval?
17:35 <luke-jr> and have 3 hands?
17:35 <K-Yo> I have 2 hands
17:35 <K-Yo> :p
17:35 <wrtlprnft> it's an oval because it doesn't adapt to widescreen yet
17:35 <wrtlprnft> and it has 3 hands like every reasonable clock
17:35 <K-Yo> hehe
17:35 <luke-jr> most have 2
17:36 <K-Yo> not mine
17:36 <wrtlprnft> well, a really resonable clock is digital.
17:36 <luke-jr> and hexadecimal
17:36 * K-Yo wishes he had a solar one
17:36 <wrtlprnft> K-Yo: hmm, some experiment: could you replace the clock image in resource/automatic by one of the gauge images?
17:36 <luke-jr> ooh
17:36 * wrtlprnft wishes the sun was shining so he could have a working solar clock
17:37 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: I want a solar clock sitting on top of the cycle
17:37 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: that's already possible, just make your own cockpit.
17:37 <luke-jr> it is⁈
17:37 <luke-jr> I didn't know cockpits could define 3D objects and place them relative to your cycle
17:37 <wrtlprnft> it would be on top of every cycle except your own, though
17:38 <K-Yo> I do that wrtlprnft
17:38 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: 2d objects, but who cares?
17:38 <luke-jr> pfft
17:38 <wrtlprnft> camera = sun
17:40 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft: same
17:40 <K-Yo> u want the screenshot?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> if the clock looks a bit like a gauge now i don't want it
17:44 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
17:47 <wrtlprnft> ah, do you have ALPHA_BLEND 0?
17:48 <luke-jr> [10:47:51] <miss_sunshine> fuck you
17:48 <luke-jr> [10:48:19] <miss_sunshine> sorry 4 that?
17:48 <luke-jr> [10:48:39] <miss_sunshine> for my poor english
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:48:40] <popey> hahah
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:48:50] <miss_sunshine> :)
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:48:58] <Karlprof> miss_sunshine: It's fine, the expletive keys and the keys for "hello" /are/ fairly near to each other.
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:48:58] <kloeri> that's hardly a case of bad english
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:49:09] <spb> kloeri: it's an easy typo to make
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:49:15] <spb> as Karlprof observed
17:49 <luke-jr> [10:49:18] <kloeri> spb: true
17:50 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft: i check, wait
17:51 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft: yes
17:51 <wrtlprnft> what happens if you set it to 1?
17:52 <luke-jr> that sounds like a fun bug to fix
17:52 <luke-jr> <.<
17:52 <epsy> what?
17:52 <wrtlprnft> the typo thing?
17:52 <K-Yo> it works if I set it to one
17:52 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: the alpha thing
17:52 <K-Yo> but I have the ugly minimap back :P
17:52 * wrtlprnft wonders why the other gauges work
17:52 <wrtlprnft> in alpha_blend 0 mode
17:52 <epsy> texture size?
17:53 <wrtlprnft> (and why the minimap bg disappears)
17:53 <wrtlprnft> neither should happen
17:53 <epsy> <epsy> texture size?
17:54 <wrtlprnft> well, you're saying smaller textures work perfectly, slightly bigger ones get a white bg and the smallest tex of all just disappears
17:55 <wrtlprnft> ?
17:55 <wrtlprnft> oh, the floor is actually the biggest
17:55 <wrtlprnft> still not a perfect explanation
17:55 <wrtlprnft> i think it's related to the render state when rendering those textures
17:56 <epsy> K-Yo, GL_VENDOR, GL_RENDERER GL_VERSION ?
17:56 <K-Yo> I get that in console?
17:57 <epsy> or in your user_3_1.cfg
17:57 <wrtlprnft> epsy: it's not a problem with his system
17:57 <wrtlprnft> i get the same
17:58 <wrtlprnft> probably the alpha test
18:00 <epsy> er
18:02 * epsy doesn't find where is the map textured background defined
18:03 <epsy> oh
18:04 <epsy> why is the HUD map defined two times in the standard cockpit?
18:04 <wrtlprnft> one's the one you see in incam mode
18:10 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r8035 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/cockpit/cRectangle.cpp: If alpha blending is disabled at least enable the alpha test for rendering rectangular cockpit widgets
18:11 <wrtlprnft> that's all i can do if you disable alpha blending
18:11 <wrtlprnft> without completely disobeying the setting
18:13 <K-Yo> ok thx ;)
18:14 <wrtlprnft> i suggest you make your own cockpit and reenable alpha blendinf
18:14 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: 100% transparent pixels shouldn't require alpha blending..
18:14 * wrtlprnft just noticed that you tried to send me an image over ddc
18:15 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: it's called the alpha test
18:15 <luke-jr> i c
18:15 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8036 /private/z-man/clio/ (13 files in 2 dirs): Added security access levels.
18:15 <wrtlprnft> and it gets disabled by that setting, too
18:16 <z-man-work> Now, namespaces. Hmm.
18:16 * wrtlprnft can't wait to see scripting in action.
18:16 * z-man-work ponders whether the exisitng CLIO_CLASS_NESTED_IN is enough.
18:16 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: prepare for lots of bugs :)
18:17 <z-man-work> And things that simply don't work.
18:17 * wrtlprnft thinks he'll implement an onslaught server once scripting is ready for it
18:17 <z-man-work> One team holds the base, has finite lives, and the other team attacks with infinite respawns?
18:17 <wrtlprnft> err, no?
18:17 <z-man-work> aww
18:18 <wrtlprnft> multiple bases that are connected to each other
18:18 <wrtlprnft> and you can only conquer a base that has at least as many connections to your bases as it has to the enemy's
18:18 * wrtlprnft wonders if it's even onslaught
18:18 * wrtlprnft hasn't played ut2004 a lot
18:19 <z-man-work> Probably not :)
18:19 <wrtlprnft> it's the kind of level where you need the link gun a lot
18:19 <wrtlprnft> anyways, gotta run
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18:20 <z-man-work> You're probably right, that mode was called Onslaught. I like my version better, though :)
18:24 <epsy> what is this clio project?
18:24 <luke-jr> embedded scripting
18:24 <luke-jr> that isn't Ruby
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8037 /private/z-man/clio/tests/security.test/output.txt: Oops, forgot expected test output.
18:24 <epsy> that is...what?
18:24 * luke-jr wonders why it isn't ECMAScript
18:25 <z-man-work> Hey, there already is a GetNamespace() function.
18:25 * z-man-work wonders what it does.
18:26 <z-man-work> luke-jr: don't wonder why x isn't y if you haven't brought up y as a possibility.
18:26 <epsy> what language does it look the most like?
18:26 <z-man-work> Io :)
18:26 <z-man-work> www.iolanguage.com
18:26 <luke-jr> z-man-work: :þ
18:27 <epsy> heh, it works even on symbian :P
18:28 <luke-jr> z-man-work: BTW, I ported MOO to Perl
18:29 <luke-jr> part of it anyhow
18:29 <z-man-work> umm, great?
18:30 <epsy> z-man-work, it is interpreted or compilated then run in a VM ?
18:30 <z-man-work> Interpreted, I think.
18:31 <luke-jr> the website said 'vm' :o
18:31 <epsy> :/
18:31 <z-man-work> Well, definition of vm is flexible :)
18:31 <z-man-work> epsy: for dynamic type languages, that's not too much of a speed hit.
18:32 <z-man-work> You have to do millions of string lookups all of the time, that bit of parsing doesn't hurt too much.
19:32 <z-man-work> Hmm, now why did that break the container test?
19:32 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8038 /private/z-man/clio/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Added automatic namespace detection.
19:42 <z-man-work> oh, darn, random GC interference.
19:52 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8039 /private/z-man/clio/ (namespace.cpp namespace.hpp): Small cleanup.
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20:22 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: that game mode IS called onslaught
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22:10 <P4> #grep /^<.*/
22:10 <armabot> P4: This data is 34 seconds old: <<<RAGE>>>, <<WiR>>Helena
22:11 <P4> #grep /.*|.*|.*/
22:11 <armabot> P4: This data is 33 seconds old: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , #*JoRgE*#, $$JJ$$, (RD)KILLAX, (RD)Serberuz, ., .sásori, /dev/zero, /etc/passwd, 01000111, <<<RAGE>>>, <<WiR>>Helena, aerius, airglow, Alexo, Ashleigh, Ballen, bartender, beast status, Black [l0v3r, BORN OF OSIRIS, Brazill lol, (3 more messages)
22:11 <P4> er
22:11 <P4> ah
22:11 <P4> #grep /.*\|.*\|.*/
22:11 <armabot> P4: This data is 58 seconds old: måç|R|JustinO, x69x|E|Legend, x| Break |x, |BDc|AtomAnt, |DKU|*Nemeth*, |PwN|BlaZE, |RR|Heywood, |STF| Skynet, |Uno|, |XM|menda, ~|DS|~ God, ~|DS|~ slash, ~|DS|~G5, ~|DS|~sunny, ~|DS|~|Alien|~, ~|DS|~|CruZ|~
22:17 <P4> #grep /.*\[.*\].*/
22:17 <armabot> P4: "<br />\n<b>Warning</b>: preg_match() [<a href='function.preg-match'>function.preg-match</a>]: Compilation failed: missing terminating ] for character class at offset 12 in <b>/var/www/crazytronner/forums/p4/players2.php</b> on line <b>16</b><br />\n<br />\n<b>Warning</b>: preg_match() [<a href='function.preg-match'>function.preg-match</a>]: Compilation failed: missing terminating ] for (5 more messages)
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22:21 <luke-jr> wtf P4
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22:28 <P4> dunno, it works when asked manually
22:29 <P4> http://crazy-tronners.com/p4/players2.php?re=/.*\[.*\].*/ <- try it
22:29 <P4> i'm doing $re = urldecode(utf8_decode($_GET["re"]));
22:31 <P4> i've tried every combination of that two functions and also tried them alone, neither work
22:32 <wrtlprnft> why would you urldecode?
22:32 <wrtlprnft> PHP is supposed to do that.
22:33 <wrtlprnft> also, try mb_detect_encoding and only convert if the GET string IS UTF-8
22:34 <P4> ok
22:39 <P4> still doesn't work :\
22:40 <P4> damn "[]", wth is wrong? http://pastebin.com/m38ead29a
22:43 <wrtlprnft> nice xml parser you have there.
22:44 * wrtlprnft notes that php has an xml parser that won't break if i change a tiny bit of the file
22:44 <wrtlprnft> which might not be too far away if the list starts to contain armathentication data
22:45 <P4> i've never parsed anything in php, that's why this script is so advanced :P
22:45 <P4> anyway the problem is with encoding when sending data bot -> php, right?
22:46 <wrtlprnft> well, PLEASE use an xml parser, i'll dig out a link
22:46 <wrtlprnft> or just look at ct's server browser
22:46 <wrtlprnft> IIRC it has a convienient function that just parses the file into an array
22:47 <P4> okay
22:47 <wrtlprnft> function get_server_list($stripcolors = false) {
22:47 <wrtlprnft> in serverbrowser3.php
22:47 <P4> i'll look at the ct code, just gonna smoke first
22:48 <wrtlprnft> maybe your encoding problems will go away, too. the xml file is in utf-8.
22:48 <wrtlprnft> argh, it isn't even in utf-8, but that might change, too
22:49 <wrtlprnft> maybe do print_r(get_server_list(true)); in some test file to see what the array looks like
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22:57 <armabot> lpbugs: [194144] Undescribable: Hit a wall in the middle of no where? See recording.
22:58 <wrtlprnft> sounds very display listyx
23:00 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r8040 /private/z-man/clio/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
23:00 <armabot> armagetronad: Made a boatload of plain IoObject * to IoObjectPointers to avoid the Garbage Collector from Hell.
23:00 <armabot> armagetronad: Adapted enum test to namespaces.
23:00 <armabot> armagetronad: Fixed double proto errors by not registering namespace protos.
23:21 <wrtlprnft> epsy: votes_cancel sounds reasonable, i'll make sure you have the required access level on the next restart
23:24 <epsy> heh, i was gonna ask you about it
23:25 * wrtlprnft loves his new big brother script
23:26 <wrtlprnft> in case i add more moderators i want to check each case of a /admin invocation
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View entire month
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
----
This is an LLM-free zone. In general, I am unwilling to use (fight with) any form of "GenAI" to write code for me. So, for the forseeable future, everything on this site will continue to be written by a very silly goose (wait that's me honk honk) with some parts written by other humans as well (silly hu-mon) rather than any plausible-series-of-words token-eating machine. Even my libraries are out of date, and suddenly that's a good thing!
(Although the style has changed several times and content has been added and changed, the base of this site has barely been updated since 2015. But it Ain't Broke!)
This site is also occasionally tested with older browsers, but compatibility is not guarenteed. Although, if you have an old obscure browser and something isn't working that previously did, I guess you can tell me (nelg) about it...
Gridder
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