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Log from 2008-02-16:
--- Day changed Sat Feb 16 2008
00:01 <K-Yo> what is "subculture"?
00:02 <epsy> K-Yo, supplementary master servers
00:02 <K-Yo> ok
00:02 <K-Yo> is it used anywhere?
00:02 <epsy> so you can have the competitions master server etc
00:03 <epsy> z-man put up such a master for this task, and i think that currently only his own server is in it :P
00:03 <K-Yo> ok
00:04 <K-Yo> it's strange
00:04 <epsy> ?
00:04 <K-Yo> my fps went from 60 to 160 with the build wrtl put on forums
00:04 <epsy> yea :)
00:04 <epsy> thank z-man
00:04 <epsy> the optimisation hero :D
00:04 <K-Yo> niice
00:04 <K-Yo> that's the thing he explained on forums?
00:05 <epsy> yes
00:05 <K-Yo> that's good
00:05 <K-Yo> this versions seems nice
00:06 <flex> which one are you talking about K-Yo?
00:06 <epsy> flex, the forum post i suggested you to read
00:06 <flex> oh right
00:07 <epsy> #lastseen xs
00:07 <armabot> epsy: WXsniper has last been seen on -=}ID< -=}Immortal Dynasty< -=}High Rubber < 20 minutes ago.
00:07 <flex> :p
00:07 <epsy> #lastseen xs20
00:07 <flex> xs20
00:07 <armabot> epsy: ¦×¦xs20 has last been seen on ¦×¦.Sumo.Server 34 minutes ago.
00:07 <epsy> hm
00:07 <flex> i'll try it
00:07 <epsy> he was going to try it
00:07 <epsy> #sd o.s
00:07 <flex> i had same issues as him
00:07 <armabot> epsy: ¦×¦.Sumo.Server: Players (0/16):
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00:32 <K-Yo> you know how to use the "buddy list"?
00:32 <epsy> give some friends name in
00:32 <epsy> the open server browser and press m
00:38 <epsy> brb updating wm
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08:28 <philippeqc> morning
08:28 <wrtlprnft> hi there :-)
08:29 <philippeqc> been *quite* busy at work!
08:30 <philippeqc> trying to catch up on my forums readin
08:33 <philippeqc> darn, on z-man post about 3d motion, I get lost on his 2nd paragraph
08:33 <philippeqc> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18213
08:36 <wrtlprnft> heh
08:36 <wrtlprnft> why can i understand that just too well
08:36 <philippeqc> ... move on the intersection lines of the surface ...
08:37 <wrtlprnft> i think he means the “up” directions of the walls the cycle leaves
08:38 <philippeqc> humm, yeah, not I understand that
08:39 <philippeqc> but that would mean he talks about bikes not driving "up" to a surface, but sometime tilted?
08:41 <wrtlprnft> could be
08:46 <philippeqc> pfff, now on to a bit of zone v2
08:46 <philippeqc> my, do I dislike this now!
08:48 <philippeqc> i realised one big miskate
08:49 <philippeqc> mistake
08:49 <philippeqc> the only part that should be in the engine is that zones has shapes
08:49 <philippeqc> then the rest should be out at the script level
08:50 <philippeqc> because it is one interpretation of how zone could behave
08:52 <wrtlprnft> well, without scripting there wouldn't have been much to do
08:52 <wrtlprnft> i think it's good if we support some basic and flexible behavior without scripting
08:53 <philippeqc> hummm, maybe
08:53 <philippeqc> but your not the one with this tangled mess on your mind for over a year ;)
08:53 <wrtlprnft> haha
08:54 <wrtlprnft> ed does want to play around with it, but the current trunk zones are broken
08:54 <wrtlprnft> i think the monitors are, actually
08:54 <philippeqc> for the shape, I have made a polynomial class (single variable)
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08:54 <wrtlprnft> err
08:54 <wrtlprnft> now i scared him away
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08:55 <philippeqc> darn, how did I drop??
08:55 <wrtlprnft> ah, i didn't scare you away
08:55 <wrtlprnft> 08:54 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-137-7.bredband.comhem.se] has left #armagetron ["Leaving"]
08:55 <philippeqc> pressed some wrong keys
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08:55 <wrtlprnft> apparently your client was loggin out
08:55 <wrtlprnft> *logging
08:55 <DrJoeTron> its the ghost of lilo
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08:56 <wrtlprnft> :-(
08:56 <philippeqc> anyway, I'm back.
08:56 <wrtlprnft> and i need to go :-(
08:56 <wrtlprnft> computer science test
08:56 <philippeqc> ok, 2 topics a) how the current implementation is and b) fix the code break
08:56 <philippeqc> cia
08:56 <philippeqc> good luck
08:57 <wrtlprnft> thanks
08:57 <philippeqc> planning to sit back on IRC later?
08:59 <wrtlprnft> definitely
08:59 <wrtlprnft> it's just three hours + getting there and back
09:00 <wrtlprnft> so expect me back in about 4 h
09:00 <philippeqc> ok, well continue later then
09:00 <philippeqc> ok, good to know
09:00 <philippeqc> good luck again
09:00 <philippeqc> one tip for your exam, the saleman prefers to travels the SHORTEST total path
09:01 <philippeqc> and if philosofers are hugging the cutelry, just punch them
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10:13 <eddiefantastic> morning philippeqc
10:13  * eddiefantastic agrees most of the zones work should be done by a script
10:13 <eddiefantastic> but monitors are great too
10:14 <eddiefantastic> philippeqc: have you played on flower power sumo assault? hacked zones and scripting at work
10:15 <eddiefantastic> it's a big mess right now I need to tidy up, but you'll see what I mean
10:15 <eddiefantastic> that kind of control with zones v2 would give so many options
10:15 <eddiefantastic> anyway, dishwasher to fix :(
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10:27 <philippeqc> morning!
10:27 <philippeqc> I'll have a look
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10:40 <philippeqc> eddiefantastic: how do you control the zones, did you move that logic to ruby scrips?
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11:07 <eddiefantastic> philippeqc: it's a php script
11:07 <eddiefantastic> crazy-tronners.com/wiki
11:08 <eddiefantastic> that's some info on the hacked server
11:08 <philippeqc> neat
11:08 <luke-jr> philippeqc: CT forked 0.2.8 and added stdio scripting
11:08 <eddiefantastic> basically a lot of server stuff is written to edlog.txt, an extension of ladderlog.txt
11:09 <eddiefantastic> this is then used to write commands to the server
11:09 <philippeqc> ok, so it is not from within the engine, but from stdin/stdout ?
11:09 <eddiefantastic> like zone_size, zone_position, etc
11:09 <eddiefantastic> yes
11:09 <eddiefantastic> all scripts are external to arma
11:10 <philippeqc> o, though you'd hacked a ruby interface to control the zone
11:10 <eddiefantastic> makes it hard for other people to use our servers :(
11:11 <eddiefantastic> we do have a lot of control over our zones, albiet in a very hacky way
11:15 <philippeqc> yeah, i see that, the server was fun
11:17 <eddiefantastic> just thought it might give you some ideas. If you want any scripts, etc, let me know.  can give you access to my server if you want it, to test stuff.
11:18 <philippeqc> eddiefantastic: the prob is not ideas, its me having time to fix the zone v2
11:18 <philippeqc> my mind is filled with ideas for v2
11:18 <philippeqc> :(
11:18 <eddiefantastic> :(
11:19 <philippeqc> frankly, one thing i realised is that beside zone and shapes, all should be pushed to ruby. the logic is just one way of controling zones, and should not be part of the engive
11:19 <eddiefantastic> it's out of my league, but it does seem like a huge job
11:19 <philippeqc> engine
11:19 <philippeqc> not so huge, just limited resources
11:19 <philippeqc> for my part
11:19 <eddiefantastic> I never really understood the direction you took with assigning teams and names, etc
11:20 <eddiefantastic> one thing I've learned from making crazy servers, keep them simple
11:20 <philippeqc> i wanted to be able to identify ownership
11:20 <philippeqc> yeah, now you tell me ;)
11:20 <eddiefantastic> haha
11:20 <eddiefantastic> well, I gtg. Bye.
11:20 <philippeqc> cya
11:23 <philippeqc> luke-jr:
11:23 <philippeqc> luke-jr: is svn still valid for the time?
11:28 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7951 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. package/Makefile package/default.apspec): Manuel Moos: Prepared for autopackage dual build. Well, the changes are mostly to my system's setup, here I only shuffled stuff around and removed old crap.
11:28 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7952 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. .bzrignore): Manuel Moos: more ignores.
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11:43 <K-Yo> is it possible in the mate menu to put severa mates in one, for example, if I want all cters, can I put "CT*" or something like that to have everyone that has a nick starting by "ct" in friends?
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13:45 <z-man> K-Yo: matches are partial, just put "CT" in there and you'll be mostly fine.
13:45 <K-Yo> okay thanks ;)
13:46 <wrtlprnft> aw
13:46 <wrtlprnft> oops
13:46 <K-Yo> wat?
13:46 <wrtlprnft> should have been /aw
13:47 <K-Yo> what does that do?
13:48 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: you can still use svn
13:51 <philippeqc> ok, good to know
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14:08 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7953 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. configure.ac): Manuel Moos: added a couple of automake variables to the registered ones.
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15:18 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7954 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added an option to enable/disable explosions on the minimap
15:26 <epsy> wrtlprnft, i noticed the text-running-out-of-window bug when using color codes in chat
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15:27 <wrtlprnft> z-man will probably kill me if i fix it
15:27 <z-man> indeed :)
15:28  * wrtlprnft is scared
15:28 <wrtlprnft> why are they suddenly displayed, anyways?
15:28 <wrtlprnft> is that intentional?
15:28 <epsy> btw, the scaling when typing looks quite ugly
15:29 <z-man> Yeah, I found that old flag that would activate that and thought what the hell.
15:29 <epsy> well i think it's good
15:29 -!- luke-jr__ [n=luke-jr@2002:440d:6de2:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:29 <z-man> So go ahead and fix anything resulting from that.
15:29 <wrtlprnft> i'll try
15:29 <wrtlprnft> i think there's a problem with that
15:29  * wrtlprnft has a look
15:30 <wrtlprnft> Only idiots talk in color all the time!
15:30 <epsy> that would be a good debug instant :P
15:30 -!- luke-jr__ [n=luke-jr@2002:440d:6de2:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
15:30  * epsy felt again like enabling his compmgr :s
15:35 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7955 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/ui/uMenu.cpp: Fixed wrong scaling of menu item texts that have colors in them and are set to show color codes (like the chat input thing)
15:36  * wrtlprnft wonders how to tell codeblocks that it's stupid to always build a debug, release AND profile build.
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15:39 <epsy> O_o
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15:48 <z-man> grr, alt key got "stuck"
15:49 <wrtlprnft> z-man: by the way, the trunk still crashes quite often for me
15:49 <wrtlprnft> not just on wild sumo
15:49 <wrtlprnft> if i enable display lists, that is
15:49 <z-man> Well, send callstacks :)
15:52 <wrtlprnft> meh
15:52 <wrtlprnft> that means i have to use a debug build
15:52 <wrtlprnft> i'll get you one.
15:56 <wrtlprnft> no crash yet
15:56 <wrtlprnft> but the 0x502 error is back
16:04 <z-man> I don't get those either, with a fresh checkout and default settings.
16:04 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
16:06 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad_main: tnl/t_draw.c:203: bind_inputs: Assertion `inputs[i]->BufferObj->Pointer' failed.
16:06 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:06 <z-man> My own tail is gone, however :)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> and a crash somewhere in the graphics driver
16:07 <z-man> Lovely. GPU type?
16:07 <wrtlprnft> #4  0xb73eb1d8 in _tnl_draw_prims () from /usr/lib/dri/i915_dri.so
16:07 <wrtlprnft> #5  0x00000000 in ?? ()
16:07 <z-man> ah, right, the crappy intel one.
16:07 <wrtlprnft> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
16:08 <z-man> Well, we could just disable display lists on known crappy GPUs :)
16:08 <z-man> Or you go and see if the crash also happens on 0.2.8
16:08 <z-man> then, you get a recording that reproducibly crashes at the same point
16:08 <z-man> then you play it back and pinpoint the exact location of the crash.
16:09 <z-man> That's what I did on the nvidia driver crash.
16:10 <z-man> When we know the location of the crash, we can look for horrible things we do wrong, like sending actual geometry.
16:10 <z-man> Or changing colors.
16:10 <wrtlprnft> z-man: crappy GPUs are the ones that need the extra performance most
16:10 <z-man> Unfortunately, yeah.
16:12 <wrtlprnft> hmm, the INVALID_OPERATION must happen somewhere inside the cycle render code
16:12  * wrtlprnft goes and adds tons of sr_CheckError() calls everywhere again
16:12 <z-man> But not too many!
16:13 <wrtlprnft> i'm not going to commit any
16:14 <z-man> Ah, don't worry about that bit, in release mode, they're NOPs.
16:14 <z-man> I meant the "too many errors checked" error.
16:14 <wrtlprnft> aah
16:15  * wrtlprnft hopes gcc doesn't add a NOP instruction in release mode :-)
16:15 <z-man> They're empty inlines.
16:16 <wrtlprnft> i know
16:16 <wrtlprnft> err
16:16 <wrtlprnft>         glEnableClientState(GL_VERTEX_ARRAY);
16:16 <wrtlprnft> i think i remember something about display lists not storing client state changes
16:16 <z-man> Yeah, that's ok.
16:17 <z-man> the command has immediate effect, and the following commands use the vertex array.
16:17 <wrtlprnft> ok then
16:17 <wrtlprnft> i hope intel knows about that, too
16:17 <z-man> which puts the following commands with the right geometry data into the display list. I hope.
16:18 <z-man> You'd have had problems long ago otherwise. That bit has always been displaylisted.
16:18 <wrtlprnft> oh
16:21 <wrtlprnft> 		sr_CheckGLError();
16:21 <wrtlprnft> 		sr_CheckGLError();
16:21 <wrtlprnft>         glDisable(GL_CULL_FACE);
16:21 <wrtlprnft> 		sr_CheckGLError();
16:21 <wrtlprnft> the error happens in the last sr_CheckError()
16:22 <wrtlprnft> (the two sr_CheckGLError calls are for ensuring that it's not the too much error checking bug)
16:22 <wrtlprnft> can that even happen?
16:23 <z-man> Depends on the context; it's not in a glBegin()/End() block?
16:24 <wrtlprnft> no
16:24 <z-man> Then, no, it shouldn't happen.
16:25 <z-man> Try to remove the glDisable() and see if the error pops up somewhere else.
16:27 <wrtlprnft> oh. argh
16:27 <wrtlprnft> this do-gl-calls-on-destruction thing makes for some nice traps
16:28 <wrtlprnft> if you have if(...) {... sr_CheckGLError();}sr_CheckGLError(); and the error happens at the second check
16:28 <z-man> You can also call it manually with .Stop() :)
16:29 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:29 <wrtlprnft> playing without cycles is fun
16:29 <z-man> Playing with randomly absent trails is, too.
16:30 <wrtlprnft> heh
16:32 <wrtlprnft> if i comment out the glTexCoord3fv call the error goes away
16:32 <z-man> One call?
16:33 <wrtlprnft> 123 calls
16:33 <wrtlprnft> apparently it doesn't use the glDrawElements call
16:33 <wrtlprnft> my card should support that, by the way
16:35 <z-man> Can you replace the glTexCoord3fv with an appropriate glTexCoord3f call?
16:35 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7956 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/tron/gCycle.cpp): Manuel Moos: Wall rendering objects no longer disappear prematurely.
16:37 <wrtlprnft> no chance
16:37 <wrtlprnft> *change
16:38 <wrtlprnft> 					float *p = reinterpret_cast<REAL *>(&(texVert(modelTexFaces(i).A[j])));
16:38 <wrtlprnft>                     glTexCoord3f(p[0], p[1], p[2]);
16:38 <z-man> Perhaps it doesn't like mixing glArrayElements and other calls?
16:39 <z-man> Probably.
16:39 <wrtlprnft> i'll comment them out
16:39 <wrtlprnft> why aren't they in the else branch?
16:39 <z-man> Because there, there are no texture coordinates.
16:40 <z-man> Are you using a moviepack?
16:40 <wrtlprnft> no
16:40 <wrtlprnft> at least there are rotating cycle wheels
16:42 <z-man> Ah, ok, the other branch seems to be completely dead now :)
16:42 <z-man> we were using automatic texture generation by OpenGL once, but some cheap cards don't properly support that.
16:42 <wrtlprnft> like mine? ;-)
16:43 <z-man> Worse. S3.
16:44 <wrtlprnft> ah
16:44 <wrtlprnft> disabling the VertexPointer stuff and adding a glVertex3fv call makes the error go away
16:45 <z-man> K, I'll add the texture coordinates in their own array.
16:45 <wrtlprnft> ok, thanks
16:45 <wrtlprnft> maybe that will fix the crasher, too
16:45 <wrtlprnft> if you have an own array for that you could actually switch back to glDrawElements :-)
16:45 <z-man> Unlikely, as I said, that code always used display lists (when enabled).
16:45 <z-man> Yeah :)
16:46 <wrtlprnft> i never got those GL errors before, though
16:46 <z-man> Becasue we never checked for them.
16:46 <wrtlprnft> oh
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17:04 <z-man> luke-jr is growing an underscore beard, it seems :)
17:11 <wrtlprnft> :D
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7957 /armagetronad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7947 to 7956:
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7956 | bazaarmagetron | 2008-02-16 16:35:47 +0100 (Sat, 16 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad:  Manuel Moos: Wall rendering objects no longer disappear prematurely.
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:14 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7953 | bazaarmagetron | 2008-02-16 14:08:54 +0100 (Sat, 16 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
17:14 <wrtlprnft> is the se_DeletePasswords menu item supposed to be commented out?
17:14 <wrtlprnft> it actually makes sense now
17:15 <z-man> Oh, then it's not supposed to be commented out.
17:16 <z-man> I must have forgotten about that.
17:17 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7958 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/render/rModel.cpp): Manuel Moos: Always using glDrawElements now.
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7959 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/render/rModel.cpp:
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7956 to 7958:
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7958 | bazaarmagetron | 2008-02-16 17:17:09 +0100 (Sat, 16 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad:  Manuel Moos: Always using glDrawElements now.
17:25 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:25  * wrtlprnft builds a new trunk
17:29 <wrtlprnft> meh.
17:29 <wrtlprnft> still getting one error per cycle
17:29 <wrtlprnft> and a crash in the next round
17:32 <wrtlprnft> no bugs with create and call, by the way
17:44 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7960 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/render/rGL.cpp: if i already have to see all these errors at least make them a bit more descriptive.
17:55 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTro@adsl-75-56-48-182.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Armagetron
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18:08 <z-man> wrtlprnft: oh, you get crashes only with create and execute?
18:09 <z-man> That wouldn't be a problem, that's the inferior method according to the experts anyway, and I wanted to drop it.
18:09 <DrJoeTron> INSTALL LINUX
18:09 <DrJoeTron> PROBLEM
18:09 <DrJoeTron> SOLVED
18:09 <z-man> NO, NOT REALLY.
18:09 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
18:10 <DrJoeTron> LUNEX
18:10 <z-man> The linux nvidia driver also crashes when you give it infinite points in display lists.
18:10 <wrtlprnft> z-man: ah, ok
18:10 <DrJoeTron> uh oh
18:10 <DrJoeTron> ping
18:11 <z-man> ping who?
18:11 <DrJoeTron> sweet
18:11 <DrJoeTron> my lag meter started sky rocketing
18:11 <z-man> mine is gone :0
18:12 <DrJoeTron> im back to zero now
18:12 <DrJoeTron> because im sure you all wanted to know this
18:14 <z-man> DrJoeTron: we could use your mad mspaint skills :)
18:14 <DrJoeTron> haha whys that
18:14 <z-man> we need Icons and stuff for our launchpad user groups.
18:14 <z-man> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev
18:14 <z-man> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronad-squat
18:14 <wrtlprnft> didn't guru3 want to draw those?
18:15 <z-man> The big icon needs to be 192x192, then there also is a 48x48 and a 14x14 version.
18:15 <DrJoeTron> haha yeah are you sure you want mspaint used with those?
18:15 <z-man> Sorry, 64x64, not 48x48
18:15 <z-man> Well, anything is better than the default pictures :)
18:16 <DrJoeTron> oh also, hey wrtlprnft
18:16 <DrJoeTron> the chatlogs show up on google again :I
18:16 <z-man> Or what Tank did: https://launchpad.net/~armagetronadmin
18:16 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7961 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/cockpit/cMap.cpp: saner hexagonal background rendering and saner transformations for the minimap
18:17 <z-man> Too much sanity lately.
18:17 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
18:17 <wrtlprnft> i wonder how the old code ever worked
18:18 <DrJoeTron> do you think you could stop google from seeing them again?
18:18 <wrtlprnft> argh
18:18 <wrtlprnft> i wonder what excactly the problem is with those logs
18:19  * z-man wants to stop this page from appearing in google: http://armagetron.sourceforge.net/old/download_windows.html
18:19 <epsy> hm...looks like i can't traceroute on my network
18:21 <wrtlprnft> aww, it's (armage)tron history!
18:21 <DrJoeTron> cant you just delete the page?
18:21 <wrtlprnft> nooooo0000000øøøøøøØØØØØØØ!
18:21 <Bougo> z-man: it hurts my eyes when i scroll D:
18:22 -!- Bougo is now known as MrBougo
18:22 <DrJoeTron> ITS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU WRTL OK?
18:22 <DrJoeTron> ITS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU WRTL OK?
18:22 <z-man> MrBougo: yes, that's intentional :)
18:22 <MrBougo> :p
18:22 <wrtlprnft> MrBougo: you can get a really up-to date, guaranteed-to-work, feature-packed version of arma on that site
18:22 <wrtlprnft> it's much newer than any other build you can find
18:22 <MrBougo> REALLY?
18:22 <MrBougo> woot!
18:22 <wrtlprnft> real pr0s work with that
18:23 <wrtlprnft> we're just trying to hide it from total n00bs
18:23 <MrBougo> r3al pr0s you mean
18:23 <MrBougo> great
18:24 <z-man> Let's see if robots.txt keeps google from crawling there again.
18:25 <DrJoeTron> let me know if you manage to remove it wrtlprnft that'd be great
18:25 <z-man> And if yes, if that keeps it from listing those pages.
18:25 <z-man> Argh, I give up.
18:26 <z-man> For pretty much the past 24 hours, I've been trying to get autopackage's dual compile to work.
18:26 <epsy> real pr0s wont use .exe on linux
18:26 <epsy> (sry for the delay i was phoneing :D)
18:27 <epsy> ooo i can have ipv6
18:28 <z-man> wrtlprnft: any details on the crash you still get yet?
18:28 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: that never happens instantaneously
18:28 <wrtlprnft> i added it to robots.txt
18:29 <wrtlprnft> what's a dual compile?
18:29 <DrJoeTron> WELL IT SHOULD BE
18:31 <wrtlprnft> what excactly is the problem with them?
18:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i'm trying…
18:33 <wrtlprnft> 0.2.8 doesn't crash on me but spits an error every couple of frames
18:34 <wrtlprnft> *spits out
18:36 <z-man> Every couple of frames likely makes it an error during wall display list generation.
18:36 <z-man> Or console playlist generation.
18:38 <wrtlprnft> actually it's in rFont now
18:38 <wrtlprnft> at least the first one
18:38 <z-man> That would make it the console display list.
18:38 <z-man> Or the HUD.
18:39 <wrtlprnft> #7  0x081b2f99 in sr_ConsolePerFrame () at ../../src/render/rConsoleGraph.cpp:50
18:39 <wrtlprnft> it's not the poor old subby_ functions' fault :-)
18:41 <wrtlprnft> what does the RenderEnd in rFont.cpp:536 do, anyways?
18:42 <z-man> End the glBegin(GL_QUADS) rendering that was started somewhere else.
18:42 <z-man> the RenderEnd and BeginSTUFF functions are lazy.
18:43 <z-man> You can do as many BeginSTUFF calls as you want, only the first one will actually call glBegin()
18:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, so RenderSTUFF_1(); RenderSTUFF_2(); RenderEnd(); is ok?
18:43 <z-man> and the firsr RenderEnd() call will call glEnd().
18:43 <z-man> Yes, RenderSTUFF also ends previous RenderSTUFFs of different type.
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18:44 <wrtlprnft> ah, i see it now
18:44 <wrtlprnft> rGLRenderer.cpp :-)
18:44 <z-man> Only if you want to do things illegal inside glBegin/End, you need to call RenderEnd().
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18:45  * wrtlprnft disables the caching of the last rendered primitive type to get more legal calls to sr_CheckGLError()
18:46 <z-man> Won't be of use here, there are not enough RenderEnd() calls.
18:46 <z-man> You'll need to introduce them after the quad renderings.
18:46 <z-man> look for the BeginQuad() calls.
18:51 <wrtlprnft> it's the Color4f call in FlushLine
18:52 <wrtlprnft> or at least it's one cause
18:52 <z-man> Does it happen with display lists disabled?
18:53 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:53 <wrtlprnft> the menu is really useless without colors
18:53 <wrtlprnft> checking…
18:54 <wrtlprnft> no, it doesn't
18:54 <wrtlprnft> neither does it with create and execute
18:54 <wrtlprnft> err
18:54 <wrtlprnft> create and call
18:57 <z-man> Well, so we have two problems already for you with the common element being create and execute.
18:57 <z-man> I'm tempted to leave it at that and just disable create and execute.
18:57 <wrtlprnft> does BIG_BROTHER still work?
18:57 <wrtlprnft> if so, how many people use a card as crappy as mine?
18:57 <z-man> I think, I haven't chcked in a while.
18:57 <z-man> let me look
18:59 <z-man> Well, the last two entries come from software renderers :)
18:59 <z-man> Probably Vista.
18:59 <wrtlprnft> *insert comment about ms here*
19:00 <z-man> There's an i945GM
19:01 <z-man> lots of them. May be you in various debug builds, of course :)
19:01 <wrtlprnft> they'd all have the same IP
19:01 <z-man> That's not logged.
19:01 <z-man> It's not that big brothery.
19:02 <wrtlprnft> md5sum(IP + "some_salt")
19:02 <z-man> The game version is 0.2.8.2.1, so it's not you.
19:02 <z-man> that still could be compared to known IPs :)
19:02 <z-man> Oh, a rage 128
19:03 <wrtlprnft> i think i never downloaded 0.2.8.2.1
19:04 <z-man> With intel, are bigger numbers better?
19:04 <z-man> Got a couple of 830
19:04 <wrtlprnft> i have absolutely no idea.
19:04 <wrtlprnft> intel's names are really confusing
19:05 <z-man> A Matrox G200
19:05 <wrtlprnft> there's different names for the chipset, actual chip used, and god knows what
19:05 <z-man> S3 savages.
19:06 <z-man> A voodoo banshee
19:06 <z-man> Riva TNTs (not 2)
19:07 <z-man> I'm pretty sure lots of cards that are crappier than yours :)
19:07 <wrtlprnft> :D
19:07 <wrtlprnft> anyways, there must be more than one error
19:07 <wrtlprnft> wherever i comment out something that seems to cause a problem it just happens in a totally different spot
19:08 <z-man> Yeah, but the font rendering goes like this:
19:08 <z-man> Set attributes and colors
19:08 <z-man> glBegin(GL_QUADS)
19:08 <z-man> lots of texture/vertex coordinate pairs
19:08 <z-man> glEnd()
19:08 <z-man> And that's it.
19:08 <wrtlprnft> i know
19:10 <z-man> Well, if you want to find out which attribute change causes the error, I'm not stopping you.
19:10 <z-man> But we already know a way to stop the errors alltogether, disallow create and execute.
19:11 <wrtlprnft> i think i give up
19:11 <z-man> Don't say that. Just stop wasting your time with it :)
19:13 <wrtlprnft> no, it's really pointless
19:13 <wrtlprnft> i disabled just about every opengl call in the font rendering
19:13 <z-man> I'll simply make Call and Execute available in debug builds only. it may be useful in conjuction with bugle's render-to-front-buffer mode when you want to watch how the playlist is being built.
19:14 <wrtlprnft> bugle?
19:14 <z-man> An openGL debug library.
19:14 <wrtlprnft> is it useful?
19:14 <z-man> You load it via LD_PRELOAD, and it sits between the app and OpenGL.
19:15 <z-man> sometimes. I use it to generate call traces of all our OpenGL calls.
19:15 <wrtlprnft> it's in portage, so it can't hurt
19:17 <wrtlprnft> the homepage says it can call glError after every call
19:17 <wrtlprnft> worth a try
19:17 <z-man> With the appropriate filter, yes.
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19:18 <wrtlprnft> there's tons
19:18 <DrJoeTron> bbl
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19:18 <wrtlprnft> bugle-showerror sounds nice
19:21 <wrtlprnft> boom
19:22 <wrtlprnft> it makes the entire debugger crash
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19:56 <wrtlprnft> z-man: the really occasional crasher is still there with compile and call :-(
19:56 <wrtlprnft> armagetronad-experimental-live: tnl/t_draw.c:203: bind_inputs: Assertion `inputs[i]->BufferObj->Pointer' failed.
19:56 <wrtlprnft> no backtrace
19:59 <z-man> Can you reproduce it in a recording?
20:05 <wrtlprnft> not at all
20:05 <wrtlprnft> just tried playing it back
20:06 <wrtlprnft> at least not with --fastforward
20:07 <wrtlprnft> oh, the crash is between rounds
20:09  * wrtlprnft tries --benchmark
20:15 <wrtlprnft> well, if i run it at the same res with --benchmark it does crash
20:15 <wrtlprnft> …after more than five minutes
20:15 <wrtlprnft> [NOTICE] showerror.gl: GL_INVALID_VALUE in glTexSubImage2D
20:15 <wrtlprnft> that's one thing i'm getting
20:16 <wrtlprnft> don't ask me from where
20:16  * wrtlprnft runs a complete log of all gl calls
20:16 <wrtlprnft> argh
20:16 <wrtlprnft> expect a result in 30 mins
20:17 <wrtlprnft> this is slow.
20:21 <wrtlprnft> it went surprisingly fast
20:21 <wrtlprnft> and generated a 1.1G file
20:21 <wrtlprnft> apparently it's in a glEndList call
20:25 <z-man> glTexSubImage? Are we even using that?
20:25 <wrtlprnft> that's not the crasher
20:25 <wrtlprnft> anyways, it looks like it crashed finishing the console display list
20:25 <z-man> Aha, were the errors were coming from earlier.
20:26 <wrtlprnft> the trace contains at least one glPushAttrib call after beginning to create the list, and we don't directly call that
20:26 <wrtlprnft> plus there's a lot of rectangular quads in [-1,1] being rendered
20:26 <wrtlprnft> probably somewhere in FTGL
20:26 <wrtlprnft> [INFO] trace.call: glEndList()
20:26 <wrtlprnft> that's the last call
20:27 <z-man> Ah, ouch, you're only working on the Trunk?
20:27 <wrtlprnft> well i only really play on the trunk
20:27 <wrtlprnft> *well,
20:27  * z-man 'd me more interested in crashes on 0.2.8 right now.
20:27 <wrtlprnft> the error before was on 0.2.8, though
20:27 <z-man> but any crash is a good crash, of course.
20:28 <z-man> Is there a glPopAttrib to match the PushAttrib?
20:28 <wrtlprnft> of course
20:28 <wrtlprnft> it's not the crasher, mind you
20:29 <wrtlprnft> it's just one of 2541 calls in the creation of that display list
20:29  * wrtlprnft is just reasoning WHY it must be the console code
20:31 <guru3> z-man: "any crasy is a good crash" <-- i thought fewer crashes were better...
20:32 <z-man> The crash on the mac also happened at glEndList, but was caused by one of the many commands inside the display list.
20:32 <z-man> guru3: you obviously missed my last forum post on policy change.
20:33 <wrtlprnft> how do i pass command line args in gldb?
20:33 <z-man> http://glprogramming.com/red/chapter07.html <- has an display list example with pushAttrib inside it
20:33 <z-man> I didn't use gldb yet, sorry.
20:34 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
20:34  * guru3 admits he did a bit of speed reading
20:34 <guru3> i was under pressure to cook dinner last time i read the forums
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20:37 <z-man> Aw, dammit, glsetup.com is now really dead. They had a useful list of known OpenGL quirks.
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20:37 <z-man> next guest: luke_jr____
20:37 <wrtlprnft> i wonder, if he hits the user name length limit, will he eventually be named ________________?
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22:14 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7962 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: Allow canceling the current display list; use that when textures are loaded. Previously, the texture upload was also recorded in the display list, which was a waste of memory.
22:15 <wrtlprnft> wow, that's a huge one, too
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22:40 <z-man> well, probably not. I don't think it's a problem, we're using texture objects, those should not actually enter the display lists. But one never knows.
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23:01 <epsy> MrBougo, t'es la?
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23:35 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [".)(."]
23:38 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7963 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Manuel Moos: added SUSPEND command that forces a player so spectate for some rounds.
23:39 -!- luke-jr__ [n=luke-jr@2002:440d:6de2:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
23:39 -!- Self_Destructo [n=sd@h14.93.141.67.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
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23:40 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: are you around?
23:40 <wrtlprnft> no.
23:41 <Self_Destructo> ok
23:41 <Self_Destructo> :)
23:41 <wrtlprnft> :-P
23:41 <Self_Destructo> question for you
23:41 <Self_Destructo> does the cockpit know what server it is on?
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23:42 <wrtlprnft> why?
23:42  * Self_Destructo is trying to think of a sensible way to use images
23:42 <Self_Destructo> in the cockpit
23:42 <wrtlprnft> if you're talking about arma servers, no, it doesn't
23:42 <wrtlprnft> though i guess it would be possible to find out
23:42 <Self_Destructo> k
23:43 <wrtlprnft> what do you want to do with it?
23:43 <Self_Destructo> I was thinking of a small logo, or Icon for the server in one corner
23:44 <wrtlprnft> i'd wait with that until we have rim textures in map files
23:44 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't be all that long
23:44 <Self_Destructo> k
23:45 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7964 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. language/english_base.txt src/engine/ePlayer.cpp): Manuel Moos: Added UNSUSPEND.
23:45 <wrtlprnft> imaging ed's servers without the need to install some moviepack
23:46 <Self_Destructo> ??
23:46 <wrtlprnft> well, flower power sumo apparently has a moviepack that's made for it
23:46 <Self_Destructo> i see
23:47 <Self_Destructo> so, moviepacks are becoming resources already?
23:47 <wrtlprnft> well
23:47 <wrtlprnft> the idea is that they'd just be CSS files
23:47 <wrtlprnft> so you'd have a CSS file that's the moviepack
23:47 <Self_Destructo> i see
23:47 <Self_Destructo> nice thinking
23:48 <wrtlprnft> and the server admin specified CSS file overriding that
23:48 <wrtlprnft> and then a final user CSS that can override specific settings again if the user doesn't like them
23:48 <epsy> has texture rendering improved since ... some months ?
23:48 <wrtlprnft> what do you mean?
23:48 <epsy> currently i'm running arma without any texture
23:49 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong with texture rendering?
23:49 <epsy> because of the sightly loss of performance
23:49 <wrtlprnft> well, d'oh
23:49 <epsy> heh
23:49 <wrtlprnft> can't have them for free
23:49 <epsy> that's sure
23:50 <Self_Destructo> lol, so anyways
23:51 <epsy> one question, are we going to abuse the CSS standart or to just use the syntax ?
23:51 <epsy> standard*
23:51 <wrtlprnft> the syntax and selector logic
23:51 <Self_Destructo> you're thinking that my logo/icon idea should go with the moviepack and be rendered on the cockpit
23:51 <wrtlprnft> epsy: and units, probably, because libcroco doesn't let us define our own units
23:52 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: something like that. nothing's for sure yet :-)
23:52 <Self_Destructo> k
23:52 <epsy> we are gonna abuse the current units?
23:52 <wrtlprnft> epsy: well, we could just stick with % and plain numbers
23:52 <epsy> hm
23:53 <wrtlprnft> epsy: or, as the cycle wall height is already defined to be one metre, use mm and cm
23:53 <epsy> where do we need our own units anyway?
23:53 <epsy> or, for what*
23:53 <wrtlprnft> i have no clue.
23:53 <epsy> ...
23:53 <wrtlprnft> the stuff i want to do doesn't really need units
23:54 <wrtlprnft> good luck finding a really correct unit for CYCLE_RUBBER, btw
23:54 <wrtlprnft> my guess is metres, but that doesn't take into account CYCLE_RUBBER_TIMEBASED and ping extra rubber
23:55 <z-man> It's still meters ;)
23:55 <z-man> timebased uses a dimensionless speed in the calculations.
23:56 <z-man> Something like realrubber = rubber * (speed/averagespeed)^timebased
23:56 <epsy> so like a different cycle_rubber for each wall?
23:56 <epsy> huh?
23:56 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7965 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/render/rFont.cpp): Manuel Moos: Giving glyphs the right orientation so they don't get invisible when nobody else bothers to disable backface culling.
23:56  * wrtlprnft goes write some code that needs frontface culling
23:57 <wrtlprnft> ^timebased? o_O
23:57 <Self_Destructo> what does armabot keep spitting out?
23:57 <wrtlprnft> epsy: that was just an example
23:57 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: commits to our repository?
23:57 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: new bug entries?
23:58 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: new feedback on FTS?
23:58 <Self_Destructo> that's what I thought
23:58 <wrtlprnft> epsy: you might want to give a different acceleration to each rim wall
23:58 <wrtlprnft> though i _strongly_ object that
23:58 <wrtlprnft> i think we should only use CSS for visuals
23:59 <wrtlprnft> and maybe stuff like sound

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DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.


 
 
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