| <- Previous Log | Select Different Log | Next Log -> |
Log from 2008-02-10:
--- Day changed Sun Feb 10 2008
00:00 <guru3> z-man: would that affect a regular client though?
00:04 <K-Yo> oh guru3
00:04 <K-Yo> you can also help me :D
00:04 <luke-jr> guru3: hide! :o
00:04 <K-Yo> (if you are still around)
00:04 <K-Yo> luke-jr, !!
00:04 <K-Yo> you can help me too
00:04 <K-Yo> :p
00:04 * luke-jr runs
00:04 * K-Yo catches him back
00:04 <flex> luke is useless, don't bother after hinm
00:04 <K-Yo> flex, !!!
00:05 <K-Yo> xP
00:05 <luke-jr> flex: f u
00:05 <flex> no u
00:05 <K-Yo> I wanted to dl the new 0.2.8_alpha20080209
00:05 <K-Yo> but I can't access the beta.arma page
00:05 <luke-jr> K-Yo: why not?
00:05 <K-Yo> (because of a DNS problem)
00:05 <K-Yo> :(
00:05 <luke-jr> so fix your DNS
00:05 <K-Yo> I tried to
00:05 <flex> ....
00:05 <K-Yo> I asked in #dns
00:05 <luke-jr> …
00:06 <flex> windows?
00:06 <luke-jr> does that even exist?
00:06 <K-Yo> It doesn't work
00:06 <K-Yo> it does
00:06 <luke-jr> K-Yo: 1. get a real OS
00:06 <flex> K-Yo windows?
00:06 <K-Yo> yes windows
00:06 <flex> open cmd
00:06 <K-Yo> ftl i know
00:06 <luke-jr> 2. compile the latest code yourself
00:06 <guru3> K-Yo: you whould be able to get it off of SF
00:06 <flex> type ipconfig /flushdns
00:06 <flex> ipconfig /release
00:06 <flex> ipconfig /renew
00:06 <K-Yo> flex, i tried that already
00:06 <K-Yo> not renew
00:06 <guru3> K-Yo: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=110997&package_id=195927
00:06 <flex> ^^
00:06 <luke-jr> … you wouldn't be online if you did /release and not /renew
00:07 <guru3> if you can't fix it, go around
00:07 <flex> urm some routers have their own DNS
00:07 <K-Yo> guru3, prefect :D
00:07 <flex> flushing router dns is useful too
00:08 <flex> luke-jr, sometimes windows once released does auto renew in gui
00:08 <flex> so don't always have to renew :p
00:08 <luke-jr> pft
00:08 <flex> does your crappy os have that?!
00:08 <flex> thought so, kkthxbye
00:09 <luke-jr> my OS doesn't use /release
00:09 <luke-jr> it's smarter than that
00:09 <luke-jr> heck it doesn't use DHCP
00:09 <luke-jr> so there
00:09 <flex> O.S. Defs. %
00:09 <flex> Linux 3307 51.76%
00:09 <flex> Win 2003 2423 37.92%
00:09 <flex> Win 2000 426 6.67%
00:09 <flex> FreeBSD 167 2.61%
00:09 <flex> MacOSX 30 0.47%
00:09 <flex> Other 36 0.56%
00:09 <flex> your os sucks!
00:09 <luke-jr> u
00:09 <flex> u
00:12 <flex> ah man gay! when is v3 gona be updated :(
00:13 <luke-jr> u
00:15 <flex> no u
00:18 <epsy> flex, when someone bothers to do it
00:18 <epsy> (i mean trunk)
00:21 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["leaving"]
00:29 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:31 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
00:38 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7836 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/doc/description.txt: Updated description
00:43 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:43 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
00:49 * epsy slaps Hoax-
01:06 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
01:10 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:28 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7837 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
01:28 <armabot> armagetronad: eGameObject::DeleteAll no longer calls Kill(), only RemoveFromGame().
01:28 <armabot> armagetronad: Several spurious explosion generations in gCycle were removed.
01:28 <armabot> armagetronad: The desired effect: no more unwanted explosions, and a cleaner game exit at round end.
01:28 <armabot> armagetronad: Some arcane bits of ancient code were removed here, I hope without ill side effects.
01:42 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
01:45 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:45 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9EC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
01:50 <pippijn> torres: { cout << (expression<variable<double> > (variable<double> ()) + expression<constant<double> > (50))(10); }
01:50 <torres> 60
02:09 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:09 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
02:12 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:46 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
03:12 <flex> hmm, my GIMP wont open font.xcf, it says: "This XCF file is corrupt! I could not even salvage any partial image data from it."
03:16 <luke-jr> O.o
03:17 <flex> any idea why?
03:22 <luke-jr> maybe it's corrupt
03:22 <flex> but i'm getting it right from the zip
03:22 <luke-jr> what zip?
03:23 <flex> souce
03:23 <flex> source
03:23 <luke-jr> of?
03:23 <flex> arma
03:23 <flex> I want to get the xcf so i can change the font in v2
03:23 <luke-jr> there is no v2
03:23 <flex> ...
03:24 <luke-jr> …
03:24 <flex> armagetronad-0.2.8_alpha20080209
03:24 <flex> what's that then
03:24 <luke-jr> 0.2.8
03:24 <flex> same fucking thing
03:24 <luke-jr> not at all
03:24 <luke-jr> v0 < v2
03:25 <flex> yeah fu
03:25 <luke-jr> try 0.2.8.0
03:25 <flex> ok from the source of the latest release
03:25 <flex> kay?
03:25 <flex> so how is it corrupt?
03:27 <luke-jr> did you try 0.2.8.0 src yet?
03:28 <flex> trying now, but could you check if your one works with latest gimp
03:28 <luke-jr> I don't have GIMP
03:28 <luke-jr> cuz it sucks
03:28 <flex> what do you use to open the xcf file
03:28 <luke-jr> I doubt anyone's opened it for years
03:28 <luke-jr> that's probably why it's corrupt
03:29 <luke-jr> gwenview doesn't like it either
03:29 <luke-jr> in particular, nobody has touch the old font since CVS
03:29 <luke-jr> it probably got corrupt during the Svn import or such
03:29 <flex> ah yeah, gimp opened the 0.2.8.0 source
03:39 <flex> might want to include that it's gotten corrupt on the alpha
03:40 <luke-jr> or someone could replace it
03:42 <flex> yeah
03:44 <flex> can't edit the font :(
03:47 <flex> well the font layer
04:21 -!- xfroggy_ [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
04:24 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
04:28 -!- xfroggy_ is now known as xfroggy
04:29 -!- xfroggy is now known as n00b
04:29 -!- n00b is now known as xfroggy
05:29 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:29 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
07:00 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
07:17 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
07:18 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
07:47 -!- Netsplit clarke.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: noob7_away
08:17 <Stewie-arma> http://x.cursedsanctuary.com/
08:18 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #armagetron
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: nemostultae * r7838 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: * Fixed dedicated compilation by adding a "Copy Headers" build phase to every
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: target with the correct config.h for that target. The file's role is set to
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: Project so it doesn't actually get copied. The other solution attempts failed:
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: tried putting the src/macosx/dedicated or src/macosx/client folder in the search
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: path for each respective target, and header files aren't members of a target so
08:20 <armabot> armagetronad: we couldn't exclude them (annoying).
08:38 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has joined #armagetron
08:40 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-70.elekta.lt] has joined #armagetron
08:41 <evaldusia> salalalal
08:45 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has quit []
08:46 <evaldusia> is it possible to change 02.8.2.1alpha20080209 hud to look like 0.3.0?
08:46 <evaldusia> and glacing system
08:54 -!- kidanger [n=kidanger@77.201.163.250] has joined #armagetron
08:57 <evaldusia> is everyone dead?
09:01 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@213.178-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
09:18 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: no, it's not
09:19 <evaldusia> :/
09:19 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: 0.2.8.3 is on another branch. We're planning on releasing 0.3.1 soon, though, it will contain all the changes from 0.2.8.2.1→0.2.8.3
09:20 <evaldusia> when it will be released?
09:21 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-70.elekta.lt] has left #armagetron []
09:21 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-70.elekta.lt] has joined #armagetron
09:21 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
09:30 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: ask z-man :-P
09:31 * z-man hides
09:31 <MrBougo> :o
09:31 <MrBougo> will the chasecam be 2.8.2-like?
09:31 <wrtlprnft> no.
09:31 <MrBougo> the 0.3 chasecam ruined my gameplay :( :( :(
09:32 <wrtlprnft> infact there haven't been any changes to the camera. I think both cams are less than ideal
09:36 <z-man> What camera complaint is it this time?
09:41 <wrtlprnft> z-man: evaldusia isn't complaining about the camera, he just wants a version that contains the 0.2.8.3 changes and the new HUD
09:41 <wrtlprnft> MrBougo just has the usual complaint that he can't cope with meriton's camera
09:42 <evaldusia> i want hud like in 0.3.0 and glancing system
09:42 <evaldusia> :D
09:42 <MrBougo> it's only about glancing
09:43 <MrBougo> i can't get 0.2.8.2-like glancing on 0.3
09:43 <evaldusia> yea i want it too
09:43 <z-man> Did we change anything on the camera from 0.2.8.2 to now?
09:43 <evaldusia> when you hold glancing button and turning camera doesn't turn itself
09:43 <evaldusia> turn bike*
09:44 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: it never did
09:44 <z-man> I happen to like that on the trunk.
09:44 <evaldusia> in 0.2.8.1 turns
09:44 <z-man> in 0.2.8.2, we just abort the glancing.
09:44 <evaldusia> abort?
09:44 <wrtlprnft> yeah
09:44 <z-man> Yeah, it snaps back.
09:44 <wrtlprnft> as if you released the button at the time you turned
09:45 <evaldusia> but in 0.3.1 it will work normal?
09:46 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: the same way as it does in 0.3.0
09:46 <evaldusia> when you press glanc button and turn cycle camera doesn't move from it's position
09:46 <evaldusia> ah than ok
09:46 <evaldusia> because i hate camera in alpha20080209 and all 0.2.8.1 versions
09:46 * wrtlprnft notes again that evaldusia and MrBougo had totally different questions, thus the confusion
09:48 <MrBougo> :(
09:48 <MrBougo> i prefered 0.2.8.2 :p
09:48 <MrBougo> but since i'm not a player anymore
09:48 <MrBougo> well
09:48 <MrBougo> do you really mind
09:56 <evaldusia> wrtlprnft and when 0.3.1 will be released?
09:57 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: that's what i told you to ask z-man
09:57 <evaldusia> z-man
09:58 <evaldusia> z-man are you alive :
10:02 <MrBougo> :o
10:02 <z-man> yes, yes. We have no release date for 0.3.1 yet. Let's first get 0.2.8.3 get into the beta phase.
10:03 <evaldusia> thats crap
10:03 <z-man> Thanks for your understanding. You can always check out and compile the current trunk.
10:04 <evaldusia> I don't know how to compile
10:04 <evaldusia> I downloaded all programs and other
10:04 <evaldusia> but it gives some errors
10:04 <z-man> On Windows?
10:05 <evaldusia> yea
10:05 <z-man> Ah, we're never in a hurry to update the project files there, becasue none of the developers actively uses Windows.
10:05 <z-man> Usually, you'll have to add some files to the project.
10:06 <evaldusia> :/
10:25 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:28 <wrtlprnft> z-man: any experience with http://gdub.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/installing-the-latest-version-of-bazaar-and-tools-on-gentoo/?
10:43 <wrtlprnft> mathias@colin $ bzr push bzr+ssh://wrtlprnft@bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
10:43 <wrtlprnft> Pushed up to revision 553.
10:43 <wrtlprnft> … and nothing happened.
10:46 <wrtlprnft> i should have write access to that branch, right?
10:47 <wrtlprnft> sorry to bother you again, z-man, but ping!
10:48 <MrBougo> :p
10:48 <MrBougo> should i sell the #6 channel on ebay?
10:48 <wrtlprnft> ?
10:48 <MrBougo> i'll get $6 for it :p
10:48 <MrBougo> the #6 channel
10:48 <MrBougo> on freenode
10:49 <MrBougo> -ChanServ- Channel: #6
10:49 <MrBougo> -ChanServ- Contact: MrBougo << ONLINE >>
10:50 <MrBougo> brb
10:51 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:17 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@213.178-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
11:23 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@213.178-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
11:28 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9EC05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
11:40 -!- torres_ [n=torres@pD9E9C2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
11:40 -!- torres_ [n=torres@pD9E9C2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:40 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
11:40 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9C2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
11:43 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@p508705B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:44 <pippijn> good morning zmanuel
12:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50873429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:04 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
12:24 -!- zmanuel is now known as z-man
12:24 <z-man> back from swimming, will look at wrtlprnft's problem
12:24 -!- garbagegarbage [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
12:25 <garbagegarbage> blah
12:25 <evaldusia> .halb
12:25 <z-man> wrtlprnft: well, apparently, it worked :)
12:25 <z-man> https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
12:25 * garbagegarbage waits for the no route to host message
12:26 <garbagegarbage> bah
12:26 <z-man> If you were waiting for a merge message to svn, of course: the tag branch is not mirrored.
12:26 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
12:26 <z-man> It's bzr only.
12:26 -!- garbagegarbage is now known as epsy
12:27 <z-man> Has luke-jr told us yet what the ominous "other problems" with user name mangling are?
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7839 /armagetronad/trunk/ (425 files in 34 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7747 to 7838:
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: r7838 | nemostultae | 2008-02-10 08:26:33 +0100 (Sun, 10 Feb 2008) | 4 lines
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: * Fixed dedicated compilation by adding a "Copy Headers" build phase to every
12:28 <z-man> About the gentoo-bzr thing, i don't know. I just installed the original packages.
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: target with the correct config.h for that target. The file's role is set to
12:28 <armabot> armagetronad: Project so it doesn't actually get copied. The other solution attempts failed:
12:30 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i was too impatient
12:31 <z-man> yeah, it takes one or two minutes to update the webpage.
12:31 <wrtlprnft> yeah, and i was waiting for a message in here until i figured out that there won't be one ;-)
12:32 <wrtlprnft> but the overlay works like a charm
--- Log closed Sun Feb 10 12:33:07 2008
--- Log opened Sun Feb 10 12:33:12 2008
12:33 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@77.47.5.89.static.cablesurf.de] has joined #armagetron
12:33 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 27 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 27 normal]
12:33 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 2 secs
12:33 <z-man> You'd need to subscribe armabot to the branches of interest.
12:33 <wrtlprnft> right, it can do rss :D
12:33 <z-man> There are rss feeds?
12:34 <wrtlprnft> err
12:34 <wrtlprnft> there's an rss icon at the top, at least in opera
12:34 * z-man uses mail notification to trigger the merges.
12:34 <wrtlprnft> #rss http://feeds.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag/branch.atom
12:34 * z-man likes that better, because then, he doesn't have to poll constantly
12:34 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Revision 555 || Revision 554 || Revision 553 || Revision 552 || Revision 551 || Revision 550 || Revision 549 || Revision 548 || Revision 547 || Revision 546 || Revision 545 || Revision 544 || Revision 543 || Revision 542 || Revision 541 || Revision 540 || Revision 539 || Revision 538 || Revision 537 || Revision 536 || Revision 535 || Revision 534 || Revision 533 || Revision 532 || Revision (1 more message)
12:34 <wrtlprnft> err
12:34 <wrtlprnft> that's useless.
12:35 <wrtlprnft> i can count by myself, thanks a lot
12:36 <z-man> luke-mode: It's not Launcpad's fault if armabot doesn't get the rest of the feed message :)
12:36 <wrtlprnft> apparently armabot can only show the headlines, not the actual messages :-(
12:37 <wrtlprnft> i suspected there was more in the feed than just the revision #
12:38 <z-man> #rss http://feeds.launchpad.net/armagetronad/branches.atom
12:39 <armabot> z-man: Source module, stable || Release tools, stable || Windows Code::Blocks build files, stable || Unix development helper, stable || Windows dependencies, stable || Helper script that simultaneously branches multiple main branches || Source module, development || Release tools, development || Unix development helper, development || Windows dependencies, stable || Two way syncronization tools (1 more message)
12:39 <z-man> hmm
12:39 <z-man> #more
12:39 <armabot> z-man: between Subversion and Bazaar || Tag - You're It!
12:39 <z-man> #rss http://feeds.launchpad.net/armagetronad/revisions.atom
12:39 <armabot> z-man: Error: Couldn't get RSS feed.
12:42 <z-man> #rss http://feeds.launchpad.net/armagetronad/latest-bugs.atom
12:42 <armabot> z-man: [190574] Game objects not cleared || [189780] Cascading Stylesheet Support || [189776] lucifer's first bug || [189684] Another test || [189678] 0.2.8.3 is not out yet || [189672] Test Bug
12:42 <z-man> That could be useful.
12:43 <z-man> #help rss
12:43 <armabot> z-man: (rss <url> [<number of headlines>]) -- Gets the title components of the given RSS feed. If <number of headlines> is given, return only that many headlines.
12:43 <wrtlprnft> do you want it announced in here?
12:43 <z-man> Woudln't hurt.
12:44 <wrtlprnft> #rss add http://feeds.launchpad.net/armagetronad/latest-bugs.atom lpbugs
12:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: 'lpbugs' is not a valid url.
12:44 <wrtlprnft> #rss add lpbugs http://feeds.launchpad.net/armagetronad/latest-bugs.atom
12:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
12:44 <wrtlprnft> #rss announce lpbugs
12:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You don't have the #armagetron,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
12:44 <wrtlprnft> #rss announce lpbugs
12:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
12:45 <z-man> Does that perhaps fetch the body text?
12:45 <wrtlprnft> no :-(
12:45 <z-man> #help rss announce
12:45 <armabot> z-man: (rss announce [<channel>] [--remove] [<name|url> ...]) -- Adds the list of <name|url> to the current list of announced feeds in the channel given. Valid feeds include the names of registered feeds as well as URLs for a RSS feeds. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. If no arguments are specified, replies with the current list of feeds to announce. If (1 more message)
12:45 <wrtlprnft> i'll see what i can do
12:45 <wrtlprnft> but first i should change the config so it doesn't check the feed every 60 secs
12:46 <z-man> Don't hurry, remove the feed again if it causes problems.
12:46 <z-man> It's not that we can't subscribe to the feeds in our own rss reader :)
12:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah ;-)
12:47 <wrtlprnft> z-man: it won't cause problems
12:47 <wrtlprnft> it'll just cause trouble
12:50 <wrtlprnft> err
12:50 <wrtlprnft> traffic i mean
12:50 <z-man> :)
12:59 <evaldusia> z-man why 0.3.0 doesn't get in alpha stages
12:59 <evaldusia> ? :D
12:59 <evaldusia> phase*
13:00 <z-man> Simply because even alpha builds are a huge chunk of work.
13:00 <z-man> I need to fire up ALL of my PCs, build the source archive on one, transmit it to the Windows machine, the mac
13:00 <z-man> build everything, push the result back
13:00 <z-man> upload it to aabeta
13:00 <z-man> upload it to sf
13:00 <z-man> update the aabeta page
13:01 <z-man> update the sf page.
13:01 <z-man> Not to mention that I first need to make sure everything actually builds.
13:01 <evaldusia> :/
13:03 <evaldusia> but 02.8.1 is lame
13:03 <evaldusia> :D
13:03 <pippijn> z-man: do you check whether it runs and works, too?
13:03 <z-man> For alpha builds, I just fire it up once, play a local round, and maybe connect to a server.
13:04 <pippijn> okay
13:05 <z-man> I'm continuously playing with the current version of 0.2.8, so there is little risk of showstopping bugs entering the alphas that aren't caught right on launch.
13:38 <epsy> i just found a bug in team color calculation
13:38 <epsy> using negative color components
13:43 <wrtlprnft> omg
13:43 <wrtlprnft> can't people just stick to [0,15]?
13:44 <epsy> looks like not
13:47 <wrtlprnft> i don't see anything, though
13:47 <wrtlprnft> no matter what i do, my color is still yellow-ish
13:47 <epsy> go to a server with teams
13:48 * wrtlprnft only tried local games…
13:48 <wrtlprnft> 88.198.22.100:4534
13:48 <wrtlprnft> fts
13:48 <wrtlprnft> meet you there :)
13:49 <wrtlprnft> err, what?
13:49 <epsy> arma wont start
13:49 <epsy> ah
13:49 <wrtlprnft> fts doesn't have teams
13:49 <epsy> not before 4 players
13:49 <epsy> x sumo is empty
13:49 <wrtlprnft> well, go café…
13:54 <wrtlprnft> epsy: no, bug_color_overflow doesn't “help”
13:54 <epsy> wrtlprnft, there = x sumo or ?
13:55 <epsy> well i get it fixed disabling the overflow bug
14:05 <wrtlprnft> ?
14:13 <evaldusia> is it possible to make hud like in 0.3.0?
14:14 <wrtlprnft> no
14:15 * wrtlprnft is currently working on a windows build
14:15 <evaldusia> is it possible to make not dart rubber
14:15 <evaldusia> to make gauge?
14:15 <wrtlprnft> ?
14:15 <evaldusia> to make rubber show like gauge
14:15 <evaldusia> you know what i mean
14:15 <evaldusia> to make bar
14:16 <wrtlprnft> again, i'm working on a windows build of the latest trunk
14:16 <evaldusia> ok
14:21 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:30 <z-man> wrtlprnft: don't let yourself be bullied by evaldusia :)
14:30 <evaldusia> :D
14:30 * z-man didn't know wrtl had windows development tools installed
14:31 <evaldusia> xD
14:31 <wrtlprnft> z-man: remember that i had to build a qt app a few weeks ago?
14:31 <wrtlprnft> i figured i might give it a shot
14:31 <z-man> Oh yeah.
14:31 <wrtlprnft> update the project file and maybe write a little tutorial
14:32 <wrtlprnft> you know, starting with a clean windows do 1) 2) 3) etc
14:33 * wrtlprnft just found a README
14:33 <wrtlprnft> great, i wish i had seen that before
14:36 <wrtlprnft> woot
14:36 <wrtlprnft> it's running :D
14:37 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7840 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/win32/code_blocks/ArmagetronAd.cbp: Added a couple of files. I hope this doesn't break anything...
14:39 <wrtlprnft> z-man: can you give me a hint as to where i would go to create an installer?
14:40 <z-man> Dunno how it works on the trunk
14:40 <wrtlprnft> well
14:40 <wrtlprnft> how does it work on the branch?
14:40 <z-man> on 0.2.8, there are .nsi scripts automatically copied into the build directory
14:40 <z-man> you just have to run them, and voila, you get an installer.
14:40 <wrtlprnft> ah, i got those
14:41 <wrtlprnft> probably need to download yet another program
14:41 <z-man> Yep, the nsis install maker.
14:45 <evaldusia> wrtlprnft compiled yet
14:46 <evaldusia> ?
14:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah, it's compiled
14:47 <wrtlprnft> you can have a binary if you like, but it won't run properly :P
14:47 <wrtlprnft> don't be so impatient
14:47 <z-man> /ignore evaldusia
14:47 <wrtlprnft> (and i though *i* was impatient)
14:47 <epsy> wrtlprnft, what are you compiling?
14:48 <evaldusia> lol z-man
14:48 <wrtlprnft> epsy: trunk/win32
14:49 <epsy> wrtlprnft, oh, could you give the link when you're done?
14:50 <wrtlprnft> argh, screw that
14:50 <wrtlprnft> who needs installers anyways
14:50 <wrtlprnft> a zip file will have to do
14:50 <evaldusia> just rarit
14:50 <evaldusia> rar it
14:50 <epsy> no, zip it
14:50 <epsy> rar isn't enough wide-spread
14:50 <wrtlprnft> nvm, i got the installer
14:50 <evaldusia> lol
14:50 <wrtlprnft> i tried to compile the wrong script
14:51 <wrtlprnft> actually, the right script in the wrong spot
14:51 <evaldusia> lol
14:52 <kidanger> #t fr en normal
14:52 <armabot> kidanger: normal
14:53 <kidanger> z-man: Are the 2 "spectator mode" normal ? http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armasl9.
14:53 <epsy> kidanger, ton lien est cassé
14:53 <wrtlprnft> apparently you need to copy the doc dir from a linux compile run :D
14:53 <evaldusia> z-man are you really ignoring me?
14:53 <z-man> no.
14:53 <epsy> i think he is
14:53 <z-man> It was more a subtle hit to wrtl :)
14:54 <wrtlprnft> ;-)
14:54 <wrtlprnft> which i ignored
14:54 <wrtlprnft> stupid me
14:54 <evaldusia> :D
14:54 <kidanger> http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armaya6.png *
14:55 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armagetronad-CVS.win32.exe
14:55 <z-man> kidanger: no. wrtlprnft: could one of them be the "keep ID invisible" toggle?
14:55 <wrtlprnft> i hope it works for everyone
14:55 <wrtlprnft> of what?
14:56 <wrtlprnft> oh
14:57 <wrtlprnft> (&playerMenu,"$player_stealth_text",
14:57 <wrtlprnft> (&playerMenu,"$player_spectator_text",
14:57 <evaldusia> nice wrtlprnft newest arma vers
14:57 <evaldusia> xD
14:58 <wrtlprnft> z-man: it's in the right spot, the lower one would be the “stay hidden” one
14:59 <wrtlprnft> but i have no clue how that could happen
14:59 <kidanger> z-man: Only "mode spectateur works
14:59 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that makes sense
15:00 <evaldusia> wrtlprnft
15:00 <evaldusia> when i run it why it show me @programtitle?
15:00 <evaldusia> @progtitle*
15:00 <evaldusia> @progtitle@
15:01 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:01 <wrtlprnft> where?
15:01 <evaldusia> front
15:01 <z-man> That's normal for direct SVN builds in Windows.
15:01 <evaldusia> first menu
15:01 <evaldusia> aaa
15:02 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: is that *really* a problem for you?
15:02 <evaldusia> nope
15:02 <wrtlprnft> good.
15:02 <evaldusia> omg
15:02 <evaldusia> i get map load failure when i try connet to |x| sumo
15:03 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i'm confused about that french bug
15:03 <z-man> Well, can you reproduce it if you switch to french?
15:03 <wrtlprnft> z-man: yeah :-(
15:03 <epsy> evaldusia, orly?
15:03 <wrtlprnft> epsy: your server's messed up.
15:03 <evaldusia> yea
15:03 <z-man> May be a localization error, I'll look at it.
15:03 <evaldusia> i get map laod failure
15:04 <wrtlprnft> evaldusia: hmm
15:05 <epsy> evaldusia, what map? what url?
15:05 <wrtlprnft> epsy: standard sumo
15:05 <epsy> huh?
15:05 <evaldusia> yep
15:05 <z-man> wrtlprnft: you edited english_base.txt wrongly :)
15:05 <z-man> you put up Hide Global ID into the player_spectator slot.
15:06 <wrtlprnft> it's my fault again. argh.
15:06 <z-man> np :)
15:06 <z-man> That's why we're doing the alpha builds.
15:06 * wrtlprnft just checked the menu items were there and labelled and used the console for the rest
15:07 <evaldusia> aa
15:07 <evaldusia> it works with old client
15:07 <evaldusia> |x|sumo server is okay
15:08 * wrtlprnft is working on it
15:08 <z-man> Perhaps the build doesn't include the dtds?
15:09 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't even download the file
15:09 <epsy> evaldusia, what is the f u c k i n g e r r o r m e s s a g e ?
15:09 <evaldusia> polygon_shape_used unkown
15:10 <evaldusia> what epsy?
15:10 <epsy> the map load failure error
15:10 <evaldusia> server is ok when i join with older client
15:10 <wrtlprnft> epsy: 404
15:10 <evaldusia> lol
15:10 <epsy> what is THE ERROR ->MESSAGE<-
15:10 <wrtlprnft> z-man: you're right
15:10 <wrtlprnft> damn you.
15:11 <evaldusia> wrtlprnft will you compile it again?
15:11 <wrtlprnft> LET ME FIX THE BUG FIRST MAYBE?
15:11 <evaldusia> OK! :)
15:19 <MrBougo> LOL
15:19 <epsy> reaction time: 7 minutes
15:19 <epsy> :D
15:19 <MrBougo> :D
15:20 <evaldusia> :D
15:20 <wrtlprnft> well, that was a temporary fix
15:20 <evaldusia> compiled?
15:20 <evaldusia> :D
15:21 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
15:21 <wrtlprnft> ok, there you go. same uri
15:24 <evaldusia> what is that
15:24 <evaldusia> Polygonal_shape_used unkown?
15:24 <wrtlprnft> ignore it
15:25 <wrtlprnft> it's a snapshot for god's sake
15:25 <wrtlprnft> be happy that it runs at all
15:25 <evaldusia> xD
15:27 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7841 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Refined way changed history order in the remote branch is handled: it is merged in now and does not alter SVN history.
15:28 <evaldusia> why mini map turns?
15:28 * z-man notes that fixing the language bug would be more important than babysitting evaldusia
15:28 <wrtlprnft> lol
15:29 <evaldusia> :D
15:29 * wrtlprnft will even fix it in bzr for you, z-man
15:29 <MrBougo> how cute!
15:29 <z-man> ooh, you make me so happy!
15:29 <MrBougo> this is lovely!
15:30 <z-man> group hug!
15:30 <MrBougo> wrtlprnft: invite him at home!
15:30 <wrtlprnft> lol
15:30 <MrBougo> yay! group hug!
15:31 <evaldusia> :D
15:36 <wrtlprnft> oh f***
15:37 <wrtlprnft> now, how do you delete a branch?
15:38 <evaldusia> press delete
15:38 <wrtlprnft> thanks a lot
15:38 <evaldusia> :D
15:43 <wrtlprnft> z-man: you're probably not going to be so happy when you see https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8
15:43 <wrtlprnft> it's darn easy to break stuff using bzr x_X
15:43 <z-man> It is? How?
15:44 <z-man> oh :)
15:44 <wrtlprnft> not pasting the entire URI when using bzr push
15:44 <z-man> You mean, forgetting the bzr+ssh:// bit and writing to a local branch?
15:45 <wrtlprnft> no
15:45 <wrtlprnft> forgetting the -armagetronad-work bit and writing a new branch called 0.2.8
15:45 <z-man> Ah, well, you can always abort and delete that new branch
15:45 <z-man> and you can't write to competely unrelated branches.
15:46 * z-man doesn't count that as breaking stuff
15:46 <z-man> Just wasting a bit of time and bandwidth :)
15:46 <wrtlprnft> well, how do i do that?
15:46 <z-man> Delete the branch>
15:46 <z-man> Just go to its view and press delete.
15:47 <z-man> Ah, you have to go there not from the project page, but from the team page.
15:47 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7842 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. language/english_base.txt): Fixed a mixup where the menu item labels for hiding your global id and spectator mode were swapped
15:48 <z-man> err
15:48 <z-man> Or from your page.
15:48 <z-man> I don't know, you'll have to find that yourself, it's your branch, only you can delete it :)
15:48 <wrtlprnft> i'll continue looking for it
15:49 <wrtlprnft> i can abandon it…
15:50 <z-man> I can delete this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~z-man/armagetronad/multifetch
15:50 <z-man> So maybe you can delete yours here: https://code.launchpad.net/~wrtlprnft/armagetronad/0.2.8
15:50 <wrtlprnft> just a disguised 404 page
15:51 <z-man> Hmm
15:52 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
15:53 <wrtlprnft> err
15:53 <wrtlprnft> i have no clue where it went and why
15:54 <wrtlprnft> but it's gone
15:54 <z-man> I stole it :)
15:54 <wrtlprnft> have fun with it
15:55 <z-man> The reason it was impossible to delete was that it had one bug attached to it.
15:55 <z-man> That happened automatically, because I used 'bzr commit --fixes".
15:55 <wrtlprnft> ah
15:55 <z-man> I removed the bug attachment, then was able to delete the branch.
15:55 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/ie7sucks.png
15:56 <z-man> But abandoning it removes it from view just as well.
15:56 <wrtlprnft> these redmond people can get on one's nerves
15:57 <wrtlprnft> thanks :-)
15:57 <z-man> 23 Mb to get rid of something?
15:58 <z-man> Sounds like a WTF :)
15:58 <wrtlprnft> inded
15:58 <wrtlprnft> *indeed
15:58 <wrtlprnft> i think i already saw that somewhere
15:58 <z-man> Probably.
15:58 <wrtlprnft> but hey, experiencing it first hand is nice, too
15:58 <wrtlprnft> "nice"
16:19 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:19 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has joined #armagetron
16:33 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7843 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Better merge messages, they now contain the complete log.
16:33 <wrtlprnft> can they maybe contain the name of the committer, too?
16:55 -!- noob7_away [n=masterco@mastercontrolprogram.de] has joined #armagetron
16:56 <z-man> Only if I make them all merges.
16:59 <z-man> It would look somewhat like this: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Bazaar#Merge_vs._Rebase
17:01 <z-man> Or we could self-host the main SVN repository, then bzr-svn can change the real submitter name.
17:05 <z-man> Or I just hack bzr-svn.
17:05 * z-man goes to work
17:07 * wrtlprnft wouldn't mind a self-hosted svn
17:07 <wrtlprnft> infact, if you need a server I give you an account on mine
17:07 <wrtlprnft> we'd need a backup plan, obviously
17:08 <z-man> The problem with self-hosting svn would be that everyone of us needs yet another account.
17:08 <z-man> But yeah, I'd support that.
17:08 <z-man> We could also do per-directory access restrictions then.
17:12 <wrtlprnft> i don't see an immediate need for that, but having the option is definitely not bad
17:13 * z-man loves python, hack complete.
17:13 <z-man> Two added lines in the right place :)
17:14 <z-man> What should it read?
17:14 <z-man> bzr-committer: <name> ?
17:16 <z-man> Nah, /me goes for author: <name>
17:16 <wrtlprnft> :)
17:26 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has joined #armagetron
17:37 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
17:41 <evaldusia> hi Hoax
17:41 <Hoax-> yo
17:41 <Hoax-> :P
17:42 <Hoax-> your sumo serv still up?
17:42 <evaldusia> mine?
17:43 <evaldusia> Hoax- mine?
17:44 <Hoax-> yeah
17:44 <evaldusia> now its on
17:44 <Hoax-> sometimes WW just isn't laggy enough xD
17:44 <evaldusia> xD
17:45 <evaldusia> Hoax- join
17:45 <evaldusia> i want to see your ping
17:45 <Hoax-> haha k
17:46 <evaldusia> Hoax- when you will join?
17:47 <Hoax-> hm cant see it
17:48 <evaldusia> lol
17:48 <evaldusia> i can see it
17:48 <Hoax-> you hosting on your machine? they take a while to show
17:48 <evaldusia> ye
17:48 <evaldusia> but you must see it now
17:49 <flex> wrtlprnft, my mini map is bugged in v3 alpha you done
17:49 <evaldusia> mine too little
17:49 <flex> mines completely white, when it should be a transparant background
17:50 <epsy> that's a b0rken cockpit
17:50 <flex> oh
17:50 <flex> but..
17:50 <flex> oh
17:50 <flex> right hmm
17:51 <epsy> #help sd
17:51 <armabot> epsy: (sd <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "fetch http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/serverlist/serverdetails.php?name=@1+@2+@3+@4+@5+@6+@7+@8+@9".
17:56 <wrtlprnft> flex: then you don't have the latest version of the cockpit
17:57 <wrtlprnft> flex: look if you have an Anonymous/standard-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml somewhere in your automatic resource repository
17:59 <flex> it's my own cockpit :p
17:59 <wrtlprnft> oh
17:59 <flex> i had trouble with my minimap in old v3
17:59 <flex> just think i need to fix it
17:59 <wrtlprnft> you need to add a <Background> tag to your map
17:59 <wrtlprnft> it defaults to white
17:59 <flex> yeah
18:01 <wrtlprnft> <Background>
18:01 <wrtlprnft> <Solid>
18:01 <wrtlprnft> <Color r="1." g="1." b="1." alpha=".2" />
18:01 <wrtlprnft> </Solid>
18:01 <wrtlprnft> </Background>
18:01 <wrtlprnft> that's in the default cockpit
18:02 <wrtlprnft> also have a look at <MapMode>, it's a new feature ;-)
18:02 <epsy> (did that mean you can have gradients or pictures as bg?)
18:02 <wrtlprnft> gradients yes, pictures no
18:02 * epsy imagines confusing his users with trails as bg image
18:03 <wrtlprnft> lol
18:03 <flex> yeah, I was trying to use mapmode but it kept bugging on me
18:04 -!- evalduia [i=evaldusi@187-173-200.elekta.lt] has joined #armagetron
18:04 <wrtlprnft> bugging how?
18:04 -!- evalduia [i=evaldusi@187-173-200.elekta.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:04 <flex> not sure yet :p
18:05 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Cockpit_Tutorial#Map_Settings
18:05 <wrtlprnft> try that :P
18:05 <epsy> wrtlprnft, the « about » crash still happens in 0.2.8
18:05 <wrtlprnft> ?
18:06 <epsy> there was a nasty bug which made the client freeze when you hit « About » in the ingame menu
18:06 <flex> about works for me
18:06 <epsy> nm, that's a freako bug
18:06 <wrtlprnft> where excactly did he hit it
18:06 <epsy> flex, wait...you're using wrtl's version?
18:07 <epsy> wrtlprnft, in the in-game menu
18:07 <wrtlprnft> on a server?
18:07 <flex> yes, and v0.2.8 alpha
18:07 <epsy> wrtlprnft, yes
18:07 <flex> worked fine in both versions
18:08 <wrtlprnft> can't reproduce it
18:08 <flex> my hud still aint working wrtlprnft
18:09 <epsy> hm maybe it was with 0.3...spot really confused me
18:09 * wrtlprnft is confused
18:09 <wrtlprnft> flex: what excactly doesn't work now?
18:09 <flex> http://pastebin.com/m3d575751
18:09 <kidanger> #t en fr tags trunk
18:09 <flex> what am i doing wrong?
18:09 <armabot> kidanger: étiquette le tronc
18:09 <epsy> kidanger, ?
18:10 <kidanger> epsy: :-' je me demande où je peux trouver la toute dernière version :S J'ai des problème avec tout ça moi :P
18:10 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: do you have alpha blending enabled?
18:10 <kidanger> wrtlprnft: ? why ?
18:11 <epsy> wrtlprnft, c'est quoi pour toi « la dernière version » ...
18:11 <epsy> er
18:11 <epsy> kidanger, *
18:11 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: if you don't have it enabled it will show up white
18:11 <kidanger> epsy: celle où les dev bosse :)
18:11 <epsy> je peux pas te répondre
18:11 <kidanger> wrtlprnft: sry, I don't understand what you mean :P
18:12 <epsy> parce que ça ne veut absolument rien dire
18:12 <epsy> les devs bossent sur 0.2.8.3
18:12 <wrtlprnft> err
18:12 <wrtlprnft> flex: do you have alpha blending enabled?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> flex: if you don't have it enabled it will show up white
18:12 <kidanger> epsy: oui, je peux l'avoir où ?
18:12 <wrtlprnft> sorry
18:12 <kidanger> lol
18:12 <epsy> si tu veux la dernière de 0.2.8, va sur aabeta
18:13 <kidanger> epsy: je peux pas avec le svn ?
18:13 <epsy> ...
18:13 <epsy> et bien prends la dernière 0.2.8 ds le svn
18:14 <flex> wrtlprnft, alpha blend is on
18:14 <flex> i'm getting cockpit error
18:14 <wrtlprnft> well
18:14 <wrtlprnft> what's the error?
18:15 <flex> position | size is getting mixed or something
18:15 <flex> with bg
18:15 <flex> http://pastebin.com/m3d575751
18:15 <flex> is that correct?
18:16 <wrtlprnft> it looks perfectly OK to me
18:16 <flex> also when I play around with MapMode I get the declaration of element not reconized or something
18:16 <kidanger> epsy: donc svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/ ?
18:16 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7844 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/all.sh synctools/request-sync.sh):
18:16 <armabot> armagetronad: BZR-Committer: Manuel Moos <z-man@users.sf.net>
18:16 <armabot> armagetronad: Optimization: Only syncing branches affected by changes; that information is parsed from the notification mail messages.
18:16 <epsy> svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/
18:17 <z-man> Hey, that was the wrong patch, obviously.
18:17 <kidanger> oki merci :)
18:17 <epsy> si ce n'est pas ça c'est
18:17 <epsy> svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/
18:17 <epsy> jsuis pas sur
18:18 <wrtlprnft> flex: what DTD are you using?
18:19 <kidanger> epsy: ouais 2eme solution
18:19 <flex> element of map does not follow DTD
18:19 <flex> and urm, i dunno lol
18:19 <flex> dtd?
18:19 <wrtlprnft> first line…
18:20 <flex> ah right
18:21 <flex> i was using AATeam/cockpit-0.3.0.dtd
18:21 <flex> changed it to cockpit.dtd and it worked
18:22 <wrtlprnft> :-)
18:22 <flex> thx babe
18:22 <wrtlprnft> the most current DTD isn't versioned
18:22 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-70.elekta.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7845 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/mirror.cfg):
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: author: bazaarmagetron <z-man@users.sf.net>
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: Added code::blocks module.
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7846 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/all.sh synctools/request-sync.sh):
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: author: bazaarmagetron <z-man@users.sf.net>
18:24 <armabot> armagetronad: Fixed the optimization.
18:25 <z-man> Well, that makes the messages slightly spammy.
18:25 <wrtlprnft> err
18:25 <wrtlprnft> author: bazaarmagetron
18:25 <wrtlprnft> is that correct?
18:25 <z-man> yeah, I edited them directly on the server.
18:25 <z-man> that is correct.
18:25 <wrtlprnft> ah
18:25 <z-man> I should change it, though
18:26 <wrtlprnft> get rid of the newline
18:26 <wrtlprnft> author: <message>
18:26 <wrtlprnft> maybe only add a newline if the actual commit message has more than one line
18:27 <z-man> Well, that would make the line quite long
18:27 <wrtlprnft> get rid of the e-mail address, too
18:27 <wrtlprnft> who in their right mind would put a real address there?
18:28 <z-man> But it's part of the author specs!
18:28 <wrtlprnft> x_X
18:29 <kidanger> epsy: à l'aide ! La compilation marche pas ! http://rafb.net/p/jwsR1K59.html :(
18:31 <z-man> Actually, the bzr email address is hidden for non-members of launchpad in their web interface.
18:32 <epsy> kidanger, tu vois pas que ton ptain de patch il marche pas >.>
18:33 <kidanger> epsy: <.< donc je peux pas le patcher ? :(
18:33 <epsy> non
18:34 <kidanger> ok merci (va falloir que je me démerde sans toi des fois...)
18:36 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-200.elekta.lt] has joined #armagetron
18:53 <wrtlprnft> can someone please tell me what the class tResource is for?
18:53 <wrtlprnft> it's empty and it isn't used anywhere
18:53 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't even have a virtual destructor
18:53 <z-man> Doesn't it have static members?
18:54 <wrtlprnft> class tResource {
18:54 <wrtlprnft> public:
18:54 <wrtlprnft> private:
18:54 <wrtlprnft> };
18:54 <wrtlprnft> tResourceManager is the one with all static members
18:55 <wrtlprnft> (which might as well be a namespace for the lack of private ones)
18:55 <wrtlprnft> but nvm
18:55 <wrtlprnft> some unimplemented method returns a tResource *
18:59 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7847 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/README): Manuel Moos: better so, wrtlprnft?
18:59 * wrtlprnft thinks it's great
19:00 <wrtlprnft> everyone knows that's z-man
19:00 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:00 <z-man> Only problem, whatever goes there can be freely chosen by the submitter :)
19:00 * z-man considers starting to sign commits.
19:00 <wrtlprnft> well, we only have a limited number of submitters
19:01 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to have them automatically signed?
19:01 <z-man> Dunno, I haven't read the docs on that yet.
19:02 <wrtlprnft> i signed three commits by accident
19:03 <flex> wrtlprnft, what's the toggle key? "1" ? can't get it switch :/
19:04 <wrtlprnft> flex: you need to set one
19:04 <wrtlprnft> flex: system settings→misc stuff→global keyboard config
19:12 <wrtlprnft> by the way, what's the deal with astyle/make rebeautify? shall we use it or not?
19:21 <StickyNoob> flex: hay
19:21 <flex> hey
19:21 <flex> 1sec i'll get you link
19:21 <StickyNoob> k
19:22 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has quit []
19:24 <StickyNoob> flex: still there?
19:24 <flex> look in xclan channel :p
19:24 <StickyNoob> ok
19:30 <epsy> lol @ "team red bug", i used to like it :P
19:35 <evaldusia> what bug epsy?
19:35 <epsy> 151 - "Team Red" bug. If the server allows maximally two teams, no team ever
19:35 <epsy> 152 gets to be Team Red.
19:37 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
19:46 <MrBougo> hahar
19:49 <wrtlprnft> 152?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> oh, lin3 numbers
19:52 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9DAC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
20:07 -!- kidanger [n=kidanger@77.201.163.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:10 <wrtlprnft> file://localhost/www2/hugecycle.png
20:11 * wrtlprnft never knew we had an SVG logo
20:11 * z-man is just pushing up a branch with the sty patch applied
20:12 <wrtlprnft> z-man: sweet
20:13 <wrtlprnft> z-man: which patch did you use
20:15 <wrtlprnft> oh, and maybe we should approach the people behind armahacktron if they'd like to use bzr, too
20:15 <wrtlprnft> that would make it easier for them to merge the latest changes from 0.2.8.3 into their hack
20:19 <StickyNoob> #svn
20:19 <armabot> svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad <dirname>(more information: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Working_with_SVN)
20:38 <StickyNoob> hmm make -j seems to break the arma compile
20:41 <z-man> Not for me, I use it every day.
20:41 <z-man> dual core and -j 3 ftw!
20:41 <StickyNoob> ahh yes my src is just broken
20:41 <StickyNoob> /bin/bash ../ylwrap `test -f 'tools/values/vParser.ypp' || echo './'`tools/values/vParser.ypp y.tab.c vParser.cpp y.tab.h vParser.h y.output vParser.output -- yacc
20:41 <StickyNoob> ../ylwrap: line 110: yacc: command not found
20:42 <wrtlprnft> z-man: same here :D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> StickyNoob: install bison
20:43 <StickyNoob> ok
20:44 <StickyNoob> ahh there we go
20:44 <StickyNoob> is that not checked for in configure?
20:44 <StickyNoob> wrtlprnft: thanks
20:45 <wrtlprnft> yw
20:45 <wrtlprnft> apparently not
20:45 <wrtlprnft> well, bison is one of the dependencies we don't actully use (yet)
20:45 <wrtlprnft> it's just one of the formula/scripting approaches that all haven't worked out
20:50 <StickyNoob> is there a option to return to the old style of glancing yet?
20:51 <wrtlprnft> no
20:52 <z-man> StickyNoob: No, and let me give you the official warning that WE HATE THIS QUESTION.
20:52 <StickyNoob> heh
20:52 * wrtlprnft can understand it as the new glancing isn't perfect
20:52 <StickyNoob> ok
20:52 * wrtlprnft can't stand the default behavior of either cam
20:52 * wrtlprnft guesses that noone can stand the behavior he uses
20:53 <StickyNoob> i thought the 2.8 way was fine
20:53 <wrtlprnft> how are you supposed to sumo if the cam keeps turning all the time and you can't do anything to stop it?
20:53 <StickyNoob> i need that for the way i play
20:54 <StickyNoob> i think my main issue is that a quick glance one way then the other has fairly undefined behaviour, ie sometimes the second glance takes effect and some times it doesnt
20:55 <wrtlprnft> it's well, defined
20:56 <StickyNoob> also repetatively hitting the same glance has different behaviours
20:56 <Hoax-> didn't meriton release a patch for glancing in 3.0
20:56 <wrtlprnft> err, that IS the patch
20:57 <StickyNoob> ahhh i get it, every left glance(in quick succesion) rotates the cam by 90deg and every back glance rotates the cam 180deg
20:58 <wrtlprnft> exactly
20:59 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
21:00 <wrtlprnft> z-man: what's the buisness with astyle/make rebautify? am i still supposed to call it or not?
21:00 * wrtlprnft remembers a commit about it not being worth the trouble
21:00 <z-man> If it doesn't make too many changes, call it.
21:00 <wrtlprnft> ok
21:01 <z-man> Yeah, on my kubuntu desktop, I can't get it not to change tons of stuff around for no good reason.
21:02 <z-man> We should restart it sometime with strict and well defined settings, not just 'defaults are fine', because obviously, they aren't, because they change over time.
21:02 <wrtlprnft> well, if they change we can just fix them to what they are now
21:05 <z-man> No, we can't, that's the problem.
21:05 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:05 <z-man> Or rather, the problem is that there is no option to leave spacings alone.
21:05 <wrtlprnft> i thought the entire point was to change the indentation
21:06 <z-man> And other formatting.
21:06 <z-man> It now likes to change
21:06 <z-man> if(a=b)
21:06 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:06 <z-man> to
21:06 <wrtlprnft> ouch.
21:06 <z-man> if ( a = b )
21:06 <z-man> or vice versa.
21:06 <z-man> but there is no "just leave things as they are and get out of my way, stupid program" option.
21:07 <wrtlprnft> -P OR --pad=all
21:07 <wrtlprnft> Insert space paddings around operators AND parenthesies.
21:07 <wrtlprnft> there must be a way to switch that off, too
21:07 <z-man> No, only a reverse.
21:08 <z-man> remove all paddings.
21:08 <z-man> At least, no such thing is mentioned in the docs, but --pad=none didn't work.
21:08 <wrtlprnft> that's stupid
21:10 <z-man> My words :)
21:11 <z-man> Any idea how to solve the DTD issue with the sty patch?
21:11 <z-man> Or, any idea what it was in the first place?
21:11 <wrtlprnft> well
21:12 <wrtlprnft> the issue is that the sty maps need another DTD
21:12 <wrtlprnft> obviously
21:12 <wrtlprnft> that's not the actual issue, though, the issue is that the guy who might be sleeping right now won't put the DTD on the repository
21:13 <z-man> Ok, yeah, I remembered that bit.
21:13 <wrtlprnft> you basically have to host it on your own resource repository for people to be able to play on your server
21:13 <wrtlprnft> or send your clients a stripped-down version of the map w/o zones
21:13 <wrtlprnft> it's not a real issue, though, imho
21:14 <z-man> Which is illegal according to the guy who sleeps very long.
21:14 <wrtlprnft> ;-)
21:15 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:24 <z-man> Well, we do have write access to the resource repository, so I have a simple solution :)
21:25 <z-man> Oh well
21:26 <z-man> Someone forgot to make the directories grop writable.
21:26 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@213.178-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
21:29 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9DAC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
21:35 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:35 <wrtlprnft> how can you screw up so badly that your code crashes inside boost::shared_ptr<rITexture>::operator*?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> nvm
21:37 <wrtlprnft> apparently if(&*m_tex) isn't valid with shared_ptrs
21:43 <wrtlprnft> z-man: any idea how sortresources.py could handle binary resources like images?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> without some XML wrapper file
21:44 <z-man> Well, my idea would be to store metainfo not in a wrapper, but a .manifest file.
21:44 <wrtlprnft> hmm
21:44 <z-man> So for every resource raw file, whatever type, you'd have two files, X and X.manifest.xml
21:45 <z-man> not pretty, but I better than finding a way to hide the info in every binary format we will encounter.
21:45 <wrtlprnft> so the manifest wouldn't be required for most stuff, just for sortresources?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> well, i still wonder why we need to write any info into a binary file
21:45 <wrtlprnft> you already know the path in most cases
21:46 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:46 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:46 <z-man> Since sortresources came from the age of CVS, where we were afraid to move files, we could also just as well drop it
21:46 <z-man> and say "a file is where it is".
21:47 <z-man> We'd just need a way to give server admins the "correct" way to put a file where it belongs.
21:47 <z-man> That's the problem, user created files placed by server admins where they don't belong.
21:47 <z-man> Any alternative solution to that problem that avoids tons of metadata would be welcomed by me.
21:50 <wrtlprnft> well
21:50 <wrtlprnft> my current solution to that is splitting the path name up
21:50 <wrtlprnft> <Graphic author="wrtlprnft" version="1" name="test" />
21:50 <wrtlprnft> and the client builds the URI out of that
21:51 <wrtlprnft> that way you actively have to mess around to get it wrong
21:52 <z-man> Hmm, would that work for "root resources", like maps? Resources the admin has to specify?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> not right now
21:52 <z-man> Those, of course, are the problematic ones, and we only need to protect them against getting misplaced.
21:52 <wrtlprnft> but those aren't a problem right now
21:52 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9DAC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
21:52 <wrtlprnft> and if we add binary root resources (what for?) we can always split up the config items, too
21:54 <wrtlprnft> second, do resources delete themselves?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> -second
21:54 <wrtlprnft> err
21:54 <wrtlprnft> textures i mean
21:56 <z-man> I guess you're right about this: if we stick to xml primary resources, there will be no problem.
21:56 <z-man> textures delete themselves?
21:56 <z-man> No, the rTexture object lives as long as it exists.
21:56 <z-man> Maybe it has an Unload() function or something.
21:56 <wrtlprnft> weird
21:57 <z-man> Yep, Unload() is it.
21:57 <wrtlprnft> do i need to call that?
21:58 <z-man> If you want the texture to release its video card/OpenGL memory, yes.
21:59 <wrtlprnft> ok
21:59 <wrtlprnft> i think i need to redesign this thing, anyways
21:59 <wrtlprnft> have the cockpit writer specify the textures they intend to use at the beginning of the file
21:59 <wrtlprnft> to avoid loading the same texture twice
21:59 <wrtlprnft> and have the cockpit own the textures, not the individual gauges
21:59 <z-man> We should have a resource cache of sorts.
22:00 <z-man> Where you request a texture by name and get it back and don't have to worry whether it already was loaded or has to be loaded for you.
22:00 <wrtlprnft> true
22:02 -!- evaldusia [i=evaldusi@187-173-200.elekta.lt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:05 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit ["have a nice week!"]
22:05 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["leaving"]
22:08 <flex> wrtlprnft, that version adds an extra like 10ms compared to the old version
22:08 <wrtlprnft> 10ms what?
22:08 <flex> ping
22:08 <wrtlprnft> you sure 10ms of ping is measurable
22:08 <flex> my ping with old client is 50-60 and with your one it's like 70-80
22:09 <wrtlprnft> i wouldn't know why
22:09 <wrtlprnft> does anyone else have the same problem?
22:09 <flex> maybe the auth thing?
22:09 <wrtlprnft> no
22:09 <flex> i'm comparing at cafe
22:09 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't do anything for most of the time
22:09 <z-man> Uh oh, I just pushed the sty patch to our main branch.
22:09 <wrtlprnft> lol!
22:09 <z-man> Luckily, it hasn't been merged to SVN yet :)
22:10 * z-man needs to remember to add the --remember option ot our bzr wiki page doc
22:10 <wrtlprnft> what's that?
22:12 <z-man> it remembers the push location.
22:12 <z-man> To create the patch, I basically did
22:12 <z-man> bzr branch <mainline>
22:12 <z-man> <apply patch>
22:12 <z-man> bzr push <pig branch>
22:12 <z-man> and there, I should have put a --remember, because the next time I pused, it pushed to <mainline>
22:12 <wrtlprnft> ah
22:13 <z-man> Good thing there is "bzr push --overwrite"
22:21 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7848 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/network/nNetwork.cpp): Manuel Moos: Merged memory leak fix from Pig Sty Branch.
22:22 <flex> yes wrtlprnft
22:22 <flex> rico is having same issue
22:22 <wrtlprnft> also on café?
22:22 <flex> yes
22:22 <flex> come and ask him yourself
22:22 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's café, then
22:22 <flex> he uses v2
22:22 <flex> so it could be auth
22:22 <wrtlprnft> auth doesn't actually do anything for most of the time
22:22 <flex> oh cafe yes
22:23 <flex> or^
22:23 <flex> well actually i never noticed it much anywhere else
22:23 <wrtlprnft> it authenticates once, then does nothing
22:23 <flex> so cafe could be it
22:23 <wrtlprnft> well, 10 ms of ping is nothing, anyways
22:24 <wrtlprnft> if you really want to be sure make a server on your own computer and try connecting there with both versions
22:26 <flex> when i mean 10ms i mean actually quite a difference
22:26 <flex> noticiable by 10atleast
22:26 <epsy> wtf is wmsplice ?
22:26 <epsy> vm*
22:26 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:26 <epsy> just to make sure i'm not using it
22:26 <epsy> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/232770527/article.pl
22:27 * epsy isn't quite sure about what runs on his machine
22:29 <epsy> btw, http://www.milw0rm.com/search.php?dong=armagetron :P
22:32 <flex> does that even work?
22:33 <flex> later
22:33 -!- flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/savas] has quit ["bye"]
22:41 <luke-jr> epsy: I call BS :þ
22:41 <luke-jr> it doesn't work on my server
22:42 <luke-jr> Linux hachi 2.6.22-ovz005.1-gentoo9 #2 SMP Sat Dec 1 05:31:42 UTC 2007 i686 Pentium III (Katmai) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
22:43 <luke-jr> tho it DOES work on my pbx :\
22:50 <pippijn> luke-jr: pippijn@gryphus.homeunix.net
22:50 <luke-jr> …
22:50 <pippijn> dyndns had issues
22:50 <pippijn> I'm thinking of hosting my own jabberd :-\
22:50 <pippijn> gryphus belongs to a friend of mine who uses dyndns
22:51 <pippijn> I have several nameservers
22:51 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-157-165-47.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
22:51 <epsy> i stopped using dyndns since they enabled account automatic disabling
22:52 <epsy> :/
22:52 <wrtlprnft> epsy: it's annoying x_X
22:52 <pippijn> I stopped using dyndns since I got my own domain and servers
22:52 <epsy> hehe
22:52 <epsy> now i'm just linking everything with my ip in it
22:52 <pippijn> I couldn't live without anymore :-)
22:53 <epsy> that's not the best to do but...what else could i do
22:55 <epsy> #tea
22:55 <armabot> epsy: Fortress Café: Players (6/32): Aneta, AshitakA, bli, cos, hoop, Minefield
22:55 <epsy> pff
22:55 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
22:55 <epsy> damned ...
22:55 <epsy> i need to get a softw. sound mixer
22:57 * epsy was wondering why his mpd client didn't show the current playing song...
22:57 * epsy was playing from his phone
23:01 <luke-jr> epsy: what they don't tell you about that exploit is
23:01 <luke-jr> it screws up the system
23:01 <luke-jr> my PBX needs a reboot now
23:01 <epsy> that's why i didn't try it :P
23:02 <luke-jr> :þ
23:02 <luke-jr> well, I figured it was *only* going to give me a root shell when it works
23:02 <luke-jr> especially since Debian's bug on it has a modified version recommended
23:02 <epsy> any idea how to get dmix working with a bluetooth device?
23:02 <luke-jr> no
23:17 <flex> "Note: At the time of writing, the trunk doesn't build in windows. Hopefully we'll remember to update this page when it does."
23:17 <flex> is this still the case?
23:23 <flex> z-man?
23:24 <z-man> flex: wrtl just did a build, where is that quote from?
23:25 <flex> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Windows_Development
23:31 <wrtlprnft> might as well leave it there
23:31 <wrtlprnft> as soon as we add another file it'll break again
23:32 <flex> is cafe fixed then wrtlprnft?
23:32 <wrtlprnft> fixed?
23:32 <z-man> Was it broken?
23:33 <wrtlprnft> i think he talks about his 10ms more lag
23:33 <wrtlprnft> *he's talking
23:33 <flex> lol it's more
23:33 <flex> fps decrease as well
23:33 <flex> not just me
23:33 -!- ct|kyl1 [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
23:33 <flex> major drop in fps, and ping increase of around 100
23:34 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:34 <wrtlprnft> just on café?
23:34 -!- ct|kyl1 is now known as ct|kyle
23:34 <flex> well i only spotted it in cafe, i never checked properly everywhere
23:34 <wrtlprnft> if you use my build please remember that it's not even an alpha build
23:35 <wrtlprnft> with 0.2.8.3_alphaxyz it would be a serious concern
23:35 <flex> np, i'm just saying
23:35 <flex> you said it was cafe, so i assumed you resolved it
23:35 <wrtlprnft> i said it might be café
23:36 <flex> slowly decreasing the fps from start of round till peak drop of 28fps..
23:36 <wrtlprnft> never noticed that myself
23:36 <flex> exactly like thing that happened in ladle
23:36 <wrtlprnft> and i rarely get more than 40fps
23:37 <flex> you can tell the difference more when the server is quite populated
23:37 <epsy> that was something related to holes inthe ladle
23:40 <z-man> That was my theory, anyway.
23:40 <epsy> well, you got to fix it, didn't you?
23:40 <z-man> If my theory was correct, yes :)
23:41 <epsy> heh
23:41 <flex> was it anything related to the client?
23:41 <flex> or just server side
23:41 <z-man> Since on the ladle, everyone was using old clients, the problem back then was server related.
23:42 -!- rebel_eclipsed [n=LDS_Troo@S010600111a3f762b.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #armagetron
View entire month
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
----
This is an LLM-free zone. In general, I am unwilling to use (fight with) any form of "GenAI" to write code for me. So, for the forseeable future, everything on this site will continue to be written by a very silly goose (wait that's me honk honk) with some parts written by other humans as well (silly hu-mon) rather than any plausible-series-of-words token-eating machine. Even my libraries are out of date, and suddenly that's a good thing!
(Although the style has changed several times and content has been added and changed, the base of this site has barely been updated since 2015. But it Ain't Broke!)
This site is also occasionally tested with older browsers, but compatibility is not guarenteed. Although, if you have an old obscure browser and something isn't working that previously did, I guess you can tell me (nelg) about it...
Gridder
.