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Log from 2008-02-08:
--- Day changed Fri Feb 08 2008
01:13 <luke-jr> z-man: what do you think about either detecting recursive includes, or moving default settings into a different file, maybe a default.cfg?
01:14 <luke-jr> z-man: so that includes can start with defaults instead of default+settings_custom
01:15 <z-man> Umm, disabling recursive includes sounds smarter :)
01:19 <luke-jr> I'm not sure if that will solve the problem on its own, though
01:20 <luke-jr> since it would still include settings_custom
01:22 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7781 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added a way to request sync processes.
01:24 <z-man> and what's the problem with that?
01:27 <luke-jr> it prevents starting an include from defaults
02:21 <guru3> z-man: with auth, should i be able to let my Tank Program@forums have admin?
02:21 <z-man> Yes, if you want that.
02:22 <guru3> USER_LEVEL Tank\ Program@forums 0
02:22 <guru3> that should let me do everythibng right?
02:22 <z-man> I prefer a local account for admin rights, gives extra security, because then I can use the full features of the md5 hash protocol
02:22 <z-man> yes, that should do it.
02:22 <z-man> luke-jr: I still don't see a problem.
02:23 <guru3> i tried to do /admin something
02:23 <guru3> and it didn't work :<
02:23 <guru3> when i do /players
02:23 <guru3> it shows me logged in as Tank\_Program@forums
02:31 <guru3> looks liked i needed that _ as well
02:31 <guru3> if another player is logged in, will /players show me that?
02:41 <luke-jr> should
02:42 <guru3> ok
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02:52 <ct|kyle> the wiki down?
02:52 <guru3> who knows
02:53 <guru3> i'm busy feeling ticked off at zero v2
02:53 <ct|kyle> it won't load anything for me
02:53 <guru3> loads fine here
02:53 <ct|kyle> dam i hate my ISP  just loads a blank page :(
02:58 <z-man> guru3: oh, yeah, sorry, you need the \_.
02:59 <guru3> oky doky
03:00 <guru3> zero... is starting to piss me off
03:00 <luke-jr> guru3: you need to put 'luke@dashjr.org' instead, actually!
03:00 <luke-jr> :þ
03:00 <guru3> lol
03:00 <luke-jr> who is zero?
03:00 <guru3> the guy who suggested tag
03:00 <luke-jr> ?
03:00 <luke-jr> o
03:00 <guru3> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18228
03:00 <luke-jr> you're doing this at user request? :þ
03:01 <guru3> no, i took his very broad idea and did it because i thought it was good
03:01 <guru3> it is in no way a collaboration
03:01 <guru3> this is me killing time
03:01 <guru3> as i very explicitly say in my latest post
03:02 <luke-jr> "making it so you have to core dump to score points and have to avoid other players. "
03:02 <luke-jr> that isn't LMS?
03:02 <guru3> lol
03:03 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7782 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/README): Underlined heading. Just testing the sync trigger :)
03:05 <guru3> oh well
03:05 <guru3> bed time
03:09 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7783 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/bzr-wait-for-commit.sh): Increased loop time.
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09:58 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7784 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. Makefile findsource make.config.template): Added source finding so this works nicely with default named bzr branches/checkouts.
10:34 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7785 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. findsource): whoops, set wrong variable.
10:34 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7786 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. .bzrignore): added ignore list.
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11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7787 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/findsource:
11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: Made more reliable.
11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: Also, let's find out how the svn/bzr syncing handles...
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7788 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README):
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad:  Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 ...simultaneous commits from svn and bzr!
11:34 <wrtlprnft> isn't every pair of commits simultaneous from some point of view?
12:12 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7789 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/README: Not bad, but let's see how...
12:22 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7790 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README): ...new algorithm handles things.
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7791 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/:
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad:  Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 ...new algorithm handles things.
12:23 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: yeah, that too. And the fact that the relevant speed of light for this operation is around 10 km/s only.
12:23 <z-man-work> argh
12:23 <z-man-work> I was afraid of that.
12:26 <z-man-work> So, new option: have empty merges in the history.
12:37 <luke-jr> …
12:38 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7792 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/README: undone second silly commit.
12:45 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7793 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README): undone one silly commit.
12:46 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7794 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/: Empty merge to keep the peace between svn and bzr.
12:51 <z-man-work> luke-jr: if you have a better idea, do tell.
12:51 <luke-jr> I have no clue what you're doing
12:51 <luke-jr> or what the argh was about
12:52 <z-man-work> the argh was about the third commit with duplicate commit message.
12:52 <luke-jr> I see
12:54 <z-man-work> The next three commits were basically the same, just with a better message for the third commit.
12:54 <luke-jr> so what exactly are you doing anyway? :þ
12:56 <z-man-work> Two way syncing between our SVN repository and bzr branches on Launchpad :https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/
13:05 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7795 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/request-sync.sh): Adapted to the fact that it is simply called from .procmail without arguments.
13:06 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7796 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/bzr-commit.sh synctools/sync.sh): Better reshuffling of simultaneous commits in SVN and bzr.
13:06 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7797 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. .bzrignore): Ignoring more stuff.
13:24 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7798 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): Added bzr ignore rules.
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13:38 <Mixnetwork> z-man?
13:38 <Mixnetwork> ther?
13:38 <Mixnetwork> e
13:38 <Mixnetwork> :)
13:39 <z-man-work> Yeah.
13:39 <Mixnetwork> posted the failures of the server with scrrenshots in the nixda.net board
13:39 <z-man-work> Ah good. I don't have my account data here, so I'll just look at it now.
13:40 <Mixnetwork> i hope it will help you
13:41 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:41 <z-man-work> Hmm, the second error is an assertion failure or something deep inside the code. Maybe from the team management.
13:42 <Mixnetwork> have you any idea why my config not works with only CONFIG_ROTATION and MAP_ROTATION Disabled
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13:42 <z-man-work> No, both should be independent.
13:42 <z-man-work> Were those crashes with the exact config you posted?
13:43 <Mixnetwork> strange , with me only both together work
13:43 <Mixnetwork> yepp
13:43 <Mixnetwork> but only on the windows server not for the linux one
13:44 <Mixnetwork> on linux untill now no problems
13:44 <z-man-work> Well, sometimes errors manifest themselves differently in different environments.
13:44 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/11a19113d5392a782f804c0937d55bd6.txt
13:44 <Mixnetwork> well the last error come everytime, always aftzer a while
13:45 <pippijn> z-man-work: "how to reduce redundancies in your code"
13:45 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7799 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/engine/ePlayer.cpp): Authentication changes are now visible in /players output right away; /logout and /login in the same round should no longer enforce keeping the authority.
13:46 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7800 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): more ignores.
13:46 <z-man-work> Ah, nice, but of course, it does not handle the "abstract * p = new implementation();" use case :)
13:46 <Mixnetwork> lol, sry i am not a programmer so i don't understand this stuff :)
13:46 <pippijn> z-man-work: why not?
13:46 <pippijn> ah, yes indeed
13:47 <pippijn> it can't
13:47  * z-man-work prefers auto-initializing smart pointers, they also handle the delete right away :)
13:48 <pippijn> right
13:48 <z-man-work> How does it work, anyway? Is "construct" a dummy proxy type with conversion operator to any pointer type?
13:48 <pippijn> yep
13:48 <z-man-work> Nice idea.
13:49  * z-man-work is off for lunch
13:49 <Mixnetwork> z-man: now i started teh server only with this CONFIG_ROTATION 1.cfg;2.cfg;3.cfg;4.cfg;5.cfg;6.cfg;7.cfg;8.cfg;9.cfg;10.cfg;11.cfg;12.cfg;13.cfg;14.cfg;15.cfg;
13:49 <Mixnetwork> ROTATION_TYPE 1
13:49 <pippijn> z-man-work: bon appetit
13:50 <Mixnetwork> does not work
13:50 <Mixnetwork> from me also ;)
13:50 <z-man-work> I'll have to look at that at home.
13:50 <Mixnetwork> ok
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14:36 <pippijn> z-man-work: you there?
14:36 <z-man-work> yep
14:37 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7801 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): More ignores for those who build directly in the source tree.
14:37 <pippijn> auto-initialising pointers..
14:37 <pippijn> why would you use that?
14:38 <z-man-work> Well, for shared objects. of course, the auto-initialization would only be an optional feature, and also of course, it would not be the only thing the smart pointer does.
14:38 <z-man-work> It would also allow to share ownership, via reference counts, for example.
14:38 <pippijn> right
14:39 <z-man-work> Otherwise, yeah, one would just create an object on the stack :)
14:39 <pippijn> and copy it around
14:39 <pippijn> if you use CoW for your own classes, there is no need for auto-init pointers, is there?
14:41 <z-man-work> No.
14:41 <pippijn> good
14:41 <pippijn> that's what I wanted to know :-)
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7802 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. . src/engine/ePlayer.cpp src/engine/ePlayer.h): Fixed compilation on non-armathentication builds.
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7803 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore):
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: Let's see what happens if someone does not "bzr rebase", but "bzr merge" ro get his branch up to date.
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad:  Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 More ignores for those who build directly in the source tree.
14:46 <pippijn> z-man-work: isn't there an 'o' too many?
14:46 <z-man-work> Oh, crap :)
14:49 <z-man-work> Crap again. the effect of the "let's see what happens" is that the source tree gets reverted.
14:49 <z-man-work> It's not horrible, but a bit ugly.
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15:07 <Mixnetwork> z-man back again?
15:07 <z-man-work> Smart boy :)
15:07 <Mixnetwork> well it works now with only config_rotation
15:08 <z-man-work> Was there a trick?
15:08 <Mixnetwork> no it only works with real players and i just tested with me and bots
15:08 <z-man-work> #later tell guru3 Would you consider putting your tag hack into a bzr branch on Launchpad? :)
15:08 <armabot> z-man-work: The operation succeeded.
15:09 <Mixnetwork> is there a possibility that it works also with bots
15:09 <z-man-work> Hmm, I should have a look at that, the rotation is probably called from a wrong place.
15:09 <z-man-work> Not on 0.3.0, probably, not unless you hack the source.
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16:19 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7804 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. configure): Adapted to bzr branch names.
16:19 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7805 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. .bzrignore): added bzrignore file.
16:33 <epsy> who is bazaarmagetron ?
16:36 <z-man-work> My trusty automated bzr-svn merge bot.
16:36 <z-man-work> Neat, Lauchpad main branches get shortcuts:
16:36 <z-man-work> bzr branch lp:armagetronad/0.2.8
16:37 <z-man-work> Is all it takes to get our current 0.2.8-code :)
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17:10 <z-man-work> Ooh, and we could integrate Launchpad into our distributed auth system:
17:10 <z-man-work> https://launchpad.net/~z-man/+sshkeys
17:12 <z-man-work> (Not with our current hashes, of course)
17:17 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/ef5fef711286aaa341ad9eae4d0cb116.txt
17:18 <z-man-work> Isn't this what boost::functor does?
17:18 <pippijn> it's called boost::signal
17:18 <pippijn> and yes, it is
17:18 <pippijn> but mine is much faster
17:20 <pippijn> and mine don't need external linkage
17:20 <pippijn> I don't know what boost did to need 500KB of signals libraries..
17:20 <pippijn> it's probably more sophisticated than mine
17:21 <z-man-work> Yeah, the advertising blurb said it does not only work with functions, but with anything that looks like a function.
17:21 <pippijn> well
17:21 <pippijn> what looks like a function and is not?
17:22 <z-man-work> You callback, for example :)
17:22 <pippijn> hm?
17:22 <pippijn> you mean it supports functors?
17:22 <pippijn> function objects?
17:22 <z-man-work> If I understood the blurb correctly, yes.
17:22 <pippijn> I see
17:22 <pippijn> that is indeed something mine does not support
17:26 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://www.boost.org/doc/html/signals/s06.html#id1634696 <- either that left one is a stupid example or I'm stupid
17:26 <pippijn> why does it restrict itself to int?
17:27 <z-man-work> \\
17:27 <z-man-work> &=&
17:27 <z-man-work> 2\pi \delta\left(\frac{1}{i}\left( \mu_j(1,1) \alpha - 1 \right) \right) F(\ket{\phi_j(\alpha,1)})
17:27 <z-man-work> argh
17:27 <z-man-work> http://www.boost.org/libs/bind/bind.html
17:27 <z-man-work> That's the library I meant.
17:27 <pippijn> ah yes
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17:32 <z-man-work> They restrict it to int because it's an example :)
17:33 <pippijn> hm
17:33 <pippijn> mine is about 30 times faster than boost
17:34 <pippijn> and mine does actually support function objects
17:38 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/e0c3f4ed6c1f391ba08e9723574f3aa3.txt <- asm generated calling my callback
17:38 <pippijn> cb (2, "Hello", true, 'a');
17:39 <pippijn> the actual call is done here:
17:39 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/15aa4e113807ed7f786898e0f6adb23b.txt
17:46 <pippijn> heh
17:47 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/up/boost_signal_call.txt <- boost
17:47 <pippijn> no wonder mine is 30 times faster..
17:48 <pippijn> but mine is probably not as portable as boost's
17:48 <pippijn> mine doesn't work on operating systems using the medium memory model
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17:52 <pippijn> boost iterates through some tree first
17:53 <z-man-work> Yeah, it's more flexible.
17:53 <pippijn> I wonder how efficient my version will be when I have the same flexibility
17:54 <pippijn> probably still much faster than boost
17:54 <pippijn> it is either faster or exactly the same speed
17:54 <pippijn> there is no way of being faster than this
17:54 <pippijn> it's not even possible to write faster code in asm
17:55 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: what are you trying to do? is it arma related? :-D
17:55 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I'm developing some efficient algorithms
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17:56 <pippijn> I started that, because the algorithms and data structures in arma are extremely inefficient in many places
17:57 <kidanger> Where I can download the 0.2.8_alpha2008 version ?
17:58 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7806 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/engine/ePlayer.cpp): Fixed authentication compilation this time.
17:58 <z-man-work> http://beta.armagetronad.net
17:59 <kidanger> and for server ?
17:59 <z-man-work> Same URL :)
18:00 <kidanger> arf >.< thx :)
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18:04 <kidanger> I have an error when I do the ./bootstrap.sh  : http://rafb.net/p/Ip4yo434.html
18:04  * wrtlprnft hopes pippijn doesn't say that just because he looked at the cockpit code
18:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: no
18:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tArray
18:05 <z-man-work> kidanger: which version of the autotools do you have?
18:05 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: did you download a released version or is this SVN
18:05 <wrtlprnft> because the released versions don't need bootstrap.sh IIRC
18:05 <kidanger> wrtlprnft: with the z-man-work's url
18:05 <z-man-work> That's correct, ./bootstrap.sh isn't needed there.
18:06 <kidanger> ok
18:06 <z-man-work> Nevertheless, if it's a newer version of autotools, then I'd be worried ;)
18:06 <z-man-work> what does "autoconf --version" say?
18:06 <z-man-work> and "automake --version"?
18:06 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: i'd love to just replace tArray by a std::vector or std::deque, but it's used in too many places and you're not supposed to inherit any of the std::containers
18:06 <kidanger> automake (GNU automake) 1.4-p6
18:07 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: who says you're not supposed to do that?
18:07 <kidanger> autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61
18:07 <z-man-work> Your automake is quite ancient :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> automake (GNU automake) 1.10
18:07 <wrtlprnft> oh, nvm
18:07 <wrtlprnft> i though 1.10 < 1.4
18:07 <wrtlprnft> stupid me trying to do math
18:08 <pippijn> :-)
18:08 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I've been tricked by that, too
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7807 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. acinclude.m4 configure.ac):
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Requiring the most recent zthreads now.
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Checking whether -fpermissive is required.
18:08 <wrtlprnft> 2. Perceived flaws due to the requirement to maximize speed and minimize space usage
18:08 <wrtlprnft> STL containers are not intended to be used as base classes (their destructors are deliberately non-virtual). Deriving from a container is a common mistake made by novices.[citation needed]
18:09 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Template_Library
18:09 <wrtlprnft> it says citation needed, though
18:09 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's wrong.
18:09 <wrtlprnft> although our kind of inheriting would probably be safer
18:09 <z-man-work> Well, as long as you don't pass them around as pointers to the base class type, you're safe.
18:10 <wrtlprnft> because we wouldn't need to add data members or a custom destructor
18:10 <wrtlprnft> just add wrapper functions so the old code still works
18:10 <z-man-work> Yep, that, too :)
18:10 <wrtlprnft> want me to try doing that?
18:10 <wrtlprnft> *try to do that
18:11 <z-man-work> Not yet. I'd rather get rid of the autoexpanding of tArray, which is it's biggest flaw, in the same go.
18:11 <wrtlprnft> is that actually used?
18:11 <z-man-work> And that would of course destroy merging from 0.2.8.
18:11 <z-man-work> oooooh yes.
18:11 <wrtlprnft> ouch
18:12  * wrtlprnft doesn't want to be the guy who designed it
18:12 <z-man-work> The default way to add an element is array[array.Len()]=stuff;
18:13 <z-man-work> It seemed like a good idea at that time :)
18:13 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
18:13 <wrtlprnft> the real problem is that you can't know whether the [] operator is used to get the value of an array element or to set it
18:14 <z-man-work> That's why there also is the () operator...
18:15 <z-man-work> I would prefer a debuggable array. Something where, if you say "p array" in gdb, you get actually readable output.
18:15 <z-man-work> tArray isn't, and std::vector is even less.
18:15 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's a problem
18:15 <z-man-work> Does gdb support print hooks?
18:16 <wrtlprnft> you can call functions from gdb
18:16 <z-man-work> yeah.
18:16 <wrtlprnft> you could make a function that returns an array of references to the real objects
18:16 <pippijn> z-man-work
18:16 <pippijn> 18:15 < z-man-work> Well, as long as you don't pass them around as pointers to the base class type, you're safe.
18:16 <wrtlprnft> or pointers, dunno if you can make an array of references
18:16 <pippijn> you're even safe as long as you don't delete through a base pointer
18:16 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: you can't
18:17 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: and about the container inheritance.. it's a common mistake made by novices to inherit from them and not consider the danger
18:17 <z-man-work> pippijn: well, there also is the overload vs overwrite problem on regular functions.
18:18 <pippijn> ...
18:18 <pippijn> why is everybody calling this a "problem"?
18:18 <pippijn> it's all well-defined in the standard
18:18 <pippijn> ONLY deleting is undefined behaviour
18:18 <z-man-work> If X::F() is nonvirtual, and you derive Y from X, define Y::F()
18:19 <z-man-work> well defined stuff can still be problematic :)
18:19 <pippijn> only for novices :-)
18:19 <z-man-work> Standard n00b-attitude :)
18:20 <z-man-work> "I'm smart, I can handle this!"
18:20 <pippijn> I'm not smart, I'm careful
18:20 <z-man-work> Fact is, in a large codebase, you better eliminate all unexpected behavior at the root.
18:21 <pippijn> well..
18:21 <wrtlprnft> “I'm smart, i can handle automatically expanding arrays”
18:21 <z-man-work> and if x.F() does a different thing if x is of type Y depending on whether it is known to the current function as type X or type Y, that is a problem.
18:21 <pippijn> if you derive from std::vector and don't tell anybody but do write a comment at its definition that you are not supposed to use this as "std::vector", then you're pretty safe
18:21 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: STFU :)
18:22 <pippijn> z-man-work: just don't use the derived as base
18:22 <pippijn> inherit functionality, inherit speed but act as if you didn't inherit anything
18:22 <pippijn> or use rona::vector :P
18:22 <pippijn> which does have a virtual destructor
18:22 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: the same problem applies to tString : std::string
18:22 <z-man-work> Then you should make the inheritance private, or embed the base class.
18:22 <wrtlprnft> but i don't want to miss it in the trunk
18:22 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tString?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> tString.
18:22 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tString is a piece of crap :-(
18:23  * wrtlprnft is talking about the trunk tString
18:23 <pippijn> it implements several existing std::string and <algorithm> functions
18:23 <wrtlprnft> yeah, because the old code needs them
18:23 <pippijn> and those reimplementations are less efficient than the std:: ones from glibc
18:23 <z-man-work> With added bugs!
18:23 <wrtlprnft> we do want to get rid of them
18:23 <pippijn> good
18:23 <wrtlprnft> but we can't right now
18:23 <pippijn> I know :-\
18:24  * z-man-work has to shut down the PC
18:24 <pippijn> if you could, I'd be helping
18:24 -!- z-man-work [n=moos@l23.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:24 <wrtlprnft> let's get rid of 0.2.8 ASAP
18:24 <pippijn> I couldn't agree more
18:27 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: have you seen my construct()
18:27 <wrtlprnft> no
18:27 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/11a19113d5392a782f804c0937d55bd6.txt
18:27 <pippijn> there is a malloc(), too
18:28 <pippijn> A *a = malloc (); // allocates without calling the constructor, good for POD types
18:28 <wrtlprnft> what does construct() return?
18:29 <pippijn> a struct rona::throws::detail::placement
18:29 <pippijn> which has an operator T *()
18:29 <pippijn> which calls malloc(sizeof (T)) and new (ptr) T;
18:29 <pippijn> it could probably just call new T
18:30 <guru3> banzai
18:30 <guru3> steam is working under wine
18:30 <wrtlprnft> and… what's the advantage?
18:30 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: less redundancy
18:30 <wrtlprnft> i don't see it right now ;)
18:30 <pippijn> especially for malloc()
18:31 <wrtlprnft> what about
18:31 <wrtlprnft> Base *b;
18:31 <pippijn> forget it
18:31 <wrtlprnft> if(some_cond)
18:31 <pippijn> that won't work
18:31 <wrtlprnft> b = new Derived1(adsf);
18:31 <wrtlprnft> etc
18:31 <pippijn> it's specifically for POD types
18:31 <pippijn> int *i = malloc ();
18:32 <pippijn> no need to name the type a second time
18:34 <wrtlprnft> makes sense i guess
18:34 <wrtlprnft> what about constructors with parametes?
18:34 <wrtlprnft> *ers
18:35 <pippijn> I am aware of the limitations
18:35 <pippijn> it would be possible to have constructors with parameters in C++0x
18:35 <pippijn> in C++03, as well, but it would blow up the library
18:35 <pippijn> because of variadic template emulation
18:37 <wrtlprnft> still looks like syntactical sugar to me that can only be used in some relatively rare conditions
18:47 <epsy> #sd -v bug
18:47 <armabot> epsy: Bugfarm Fortress Clone with ladders and Flying Deathzones ( running 0.2.8_alpha20071210 unix dedic, url: http://www.crazy-tronners.com, Description: “AFL Fortress Settings.“, Players (6/16): <<WiR>>$oldier, <<WiR>>Freetax, <<WiR>>Raiden, ct°$afari$kater, halban, Mart
18:50 <guru3> #sd -v tag
18:50 <armabot> guru3: Tag Test ( running 0.2.8_alpha20080206 unix dedic, url: http://www.armagetronad.net, Description: “All settings at default values.“, No online players.
18:50 <guru3> i should fix those details
18:53 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:54 <epsy> love_to gives autban
18:54 <epsy> move*
18:56 <epsy> ..
18:56 <epsy> move_to gives an autoban actually :/
18:57 <wrtlprnft> epsy: current clients don't support it
18:58 <epsy> i tried it on myself
18:59 <wrtlprnft> epsy: i think it just doesn't count as much as kick_to
19:00 <MrBougo> #crazylate micro soft sucks
19:00 <epsy> still the same 4 minutes heh
19:00 <armabot> MrBougo: Error: Couldn't talk to server: [Errno socket error] timed out
19:00 <MrBougo> :/
19:01 <wrtlprnft> z-man: at least with std::stuff, if the code uses operator[] of your type somewhere you can at least to print someVector[0] in gdb
19:05 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7808 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/ (4 files): Authentfication -> Authentication
19:07 <wrtlprnft> the fi already made it to codeblocks?
19:08 <z-man> Of course, the files were there all the time already, and were used by the clientside password query code.
19:08 <wrtlprnft> ah
19:08 <z-man> I'm not activating KRAWALL_SERVER, of course. Not in the mood to add another libraty.
19:11 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7809 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): OMG! More AuthentiFIcation. Empty stub files, but nevertheless.
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7810 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/makedist.bat: Copied over from build_visualc. We don't use Visual C any more, so this here is a better place for the working version.
19:20 <pippijn> wrtlprnft, z-man: do you use singletons?
19:21 <z-man> Worse!
19:21 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7811 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/MacOS/Armagetron Advanced.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: eAuthentication here, too.
19:21 <pippijn> z-man: what?
19:21 <z-man> We've got tons of global variables.
19:21 <z-man> Some use the singleton pattern, but that doesn't make them less global.
19:22 <z-man> (sure, for some things, like the classes that manage settings, you need one global manager object)
19:25 <pippijn> z-man: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/e0d9c42bc7e5008f62043b457b7f245c.txt
19:26 <pippijn> z-man: this is a severe problem
19:26 <pippijn> z-man: global construction order is undefined
19:27 <z-man> Yep, and we don't depend on it.
19:28 <wrtlprnft> what about menus?
19:28 <z-man> Apart from the memory manager that can't be a singleton for some reason I forgot.
19:28 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/d8e3c41c00c274c1dccf6658ed051d30.txt
19:28 <pippijn> ah no
19:28 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/cb009bbe4f9b2bdca45317f9f97d597c.txt <- here
19:28 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i actually like the way config items work
19:29 <wrtlprnft> is that a bad thing, too?
19:29 <z-man> Well, they could be a bit easier to set up.
19:29 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: as long as one config item doesn't depend on the existence of another
19:29 <z-man> For one, the split into the variable and the config item is cumbersome.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's true
19:30 <wrtlprnft> and the fact that the names of the global config item objects are totally useless
19:30 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: config items are ints or floats or strings at worst; they can't depend on each other
19:30 <z-man> Exactly.
19:31 <wrtlprnft> how would you solve it now?
19:31 <pippijn> does arma use boost?
19:31 <wrtlprnft> the trunk does
19:31 <wrtlprnft> a little but
19:32 <wrtlprnft> *bit
19:32 <pippijn> okay
19:32 <pippijn> good
19:32 <wrtlprnft> we're not sure if we want to keep that huge dependency, though
19:32 <pippijn> if you use it a lot, it's good
19:32 <pippijn> if you use it a little, it's a huge dependency
19:32 <pippijn> if you can do without, don't use it
19:32 <pippijn> (if you can do nicely without)
19:33 <pippijn> if you start writing inefficient container classes because you don't want to use boost, I'd say don't
19:33 <wrtlprnft> there's no way to write a c++ program without reimplementing some bit of boost functionality
19:33 <pippijn> (in other words: do use boost)
19:33 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: of course
19:33 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: again, those container classes are old
19:33 <pippijn> I know :-)
19:34 <wrtlprnft> if arma was written from scratch today they probably wouldn't be written or at least not in the same way
19:34 <pippijn> use stdlib and tr1
19:34 <pippijn> and use c++09 when it stabilises
19:34 <wrtlprnft> i don't see any fundamental inefficiency in the containers, though…
19:34 <wrtlprnft> they're just unoptimized, weirdly named and sometimes cubersome to use
19:35 <pippijn> I see both inefficiency and brokenness
19:35 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: pushing stuff into a tArray is over 100 times slower than std::vector::push_back
19:35 <pippijn> and over 300 times slower than rona::adt::vector::push_back
19:36 <wrtlprnft> wtf is rona, anyways?
19:36 <pippijn> my algorithms, containers and streams library
19:36 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rona_(company)
19:36 <wrtlprnft> o_O.
19:36 <pippijn> no, I am not rona (company)
19:36 <pippijn> and I should probably rename it when I publish it
19:37 <wrtlprnft> i wonder why it is that slow
19:37 <wrtlprnft> GrowingArrayBase is growing exponentially i hope
19:38 <pippijn> the use of GrowingArrayBase is a cool hack
19:38 <pippijn> it allows for insane things like T &operator () (int) const
19:39 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/aec3fc66d7a9c801d2934b6866b91067.txt
19:39 <pippijn> same for     void *Base() const {return base;}
19:39 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7812 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/render/rConsoleCout.cpp: Win32 compatibility.
19:39 <pippijn> arma code relies on being able to modify const arrays
19:40 <pippijn> or more precisely: modify const arrays' elements
19:40 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7813 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/ (Armagetron.cbp Armagetron.workspace Dedicated.cbp): Added gFirends
19:40 <wrtlprnft> firends sounds funny
19:41 <pippijn> how much code is shared between server and client?
19:41  * z-man is typoing a lot lately.
19:41 <z-man> pippijn: almost all.
19:41 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: note that clients can act as hybrid servers
19:41 <pippijn> is there any reason not to create a libarmagetron?
19:41 <wrtlprnft> although those servers can't do everything real servers can
19:41 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: why not?
19:42 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: currently the difference between a server and a client is basically a -DDEDICATED
19:42 <pippijn> right
19:43 <z-man> The server does not have to display the current gamestate, so it is more flexible with the way time flows in the simulation, and can compensate lag better.
19:44 <pippijn> 92 reinterpret_casts
19:44 <pippijn> are those really necessary?
19:45 <pippijn> void* can be cast to T* using static_cast without problems
19:45 <wrtlprnft> so?
19:45 <pippijn> so why use reinterpret_cast?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> why not?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> if they do the same thing
19:45 <pippijn> 'reinterpret' is longer to type and indicates that you are doing something evil
19:46 <wrtlprnft> maybe to avoid people who use grep -r reinterpret_cast src | wc -l as a measure of quality
19:46 <pippijn> casting between pointer and integer for example would be evil
19:46 <wrtlprnft> i don't think we do that
19:46 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I'm not using it to measure quality
19:46 <wrtlprnft> openGL does, though
19:47 <wrtlprnft> i guess we're lucky that pippijn isn't ripping the trunk into pieces, but 0.3.0
19:47 <wrtlprnft> so he doesn't see src/swig/ext/armagetronad_wrap.cxx
19:48 <pippijn> I don't think I want to see that
19:49 <wrtlprnft> mathias@colin $ grep reinterpret_cast ../src/swig/ext/armagetronad_wrap.cxx | wc -l                              ~/armagetronad3/armagetronad2/build2
19:49 <wrtlprnft> 546
19:49 <pippijn> !?
19:50 <pippijn> is that what swig generates?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:50 <pippijn> :-\
19:50 <wrtlprnft> including reinterpret_cast<void**>
19:50 <pippijn> .
19:50 <wrtlprnft> as if there was any difference between a void * and a void ***************
19:51 <pippijn> I used swig once
19:51 <pippijn> it's usable
19:51 <pippijn> but really just usable
19:52 <pippijn> I wouldn't use it again
19:52 <wrtlprnft> actually, where are the limits of static_cast for pointers?
19:52 <pippijn> the generated API is nothing compared to handwritten ones
19:52 <wrtlprnft> you can cast from/to void pointers, probably between signed and unsigned, anything else?
19:53 <pippijn> uh
19:53 <pippijn> static_cast can not cast between signed*/unsigned*
19:53 <wrtlprnft> oh well
19:53 <pippijn> it can cast between void* and T*
19:53 <pippijn> and between Base and Derived
19:53 <pippijn> up and down
19:53 <wrtlprnft> err
19:54 <wrtlprnft> isn't that the job of dynamic_cast?
19:54 <pippijn> no
19:54 <wrtlprnft> at least from base to derived
19:54 <pippijn> the job of dynamic_cast is to cast down typesafely
19:54 <pippijn> static_cast does so without runtime checks
19:54 <wrtlprnft> sounds evil.
19:54 <pippijn> well
19:54 <pippijn> not really
19:55 <pippijn> if you're sure that the only thing that particular object can be is DerivedX then it's safe
19:55 <wrtlprnft> so i can do static_cast<float *>(static_cast<void *>(new double))?
19:55 <pippijn> yes
19:56 <wrtlprnft> sounds more evil than dynamic_cast<float *>(new double)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> because it hides stuff
19:56 <pippijn> you can't do that
19:56 <wrtlprnft> err
19:56 <wrtlprnft> reinterpret_cast
19:56 <wrtlprnft> sorry
19:56 <pippijn> of course
19:56 <pippijn> and you should never do what you said
19:57 <pippijn> signed to unsigned is okay, but between two different floating point types is murder
19:57 <wrtlprnft> heh
19:57 <wrtlprnft> 0 stays 0, though.
19:57 <pippijn> and that's it :-)
19:58 <pippijn> hm
19:58 <wrtlprnft> -0 stays -0, too :D
19:58 <pippijn> I doubt it
19:58 <pippijn> depending on the way of casting
19:59 <pippijn> you can't, in C++, cast between float and double
19:59 <pippijn> in standard C++ that is
19:59 <pippijn> but you can cheat
19:59 <pippijn> even with standard C++
19:59 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know
20:01 <z-man> Oh great, dlh's domain has been grabbed.
20:01 <pippijn> double d = 0; double const &dr = d; float f = reinterpret_cast<float const &> (dr);
20:01 <pippijn> that will work
20:01 <z-man> Now where do I get the recorder app from?
20:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i noticed
20:03 <wrtlprnft> 	std::cerr << *reinterpret_cast<float *>(new double(.2 * -1)) << std::endl;
20:03 <wrtlprnft> prints 0.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> err
20:03 <wrtlprnft> stupid
20:03 <wrtlprnft> nvm.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> no, it works with .0 * -1, too
20:04 <wrtlprnft> actually a lot of stuff becomes 0 as a float ;)
20:05 <wrtlprnft> but -0 != 0 :D
20:05 <pippijn> ;-)
20:06 <pippijn> yes
20:06 <wrtlprnft> although amazingly it passes the equality test
20:07 <kidanger> http://rafb.net/p/gqg2JN73.html >> error when I do "make"
20:09  * wrtlprnft loves trying to decipher french error messages ;-D
20:10 <kidanger> sry :-)
20:11 <z-man> Looks like a charset messup.
20:11 <wrtlprnft> http://dict.leo.org/frde?lp=frde&p=eL4jZr&search=%E9crasement
20:11 <wrtlprnft> lol.
20:12 <epsy> wrtlprnft, overloading?
20:12 <z-man> Makefile:339: attention : écrasement des commandes pour la cible « 1000 »
20:12 <z-man> wrtlprnft: helpful.
20:12 <wrtlprnft> z-man: indeed
20:12 <z-man> Sounds to me as if the Makefile is totally borked.
20:13 <wrtlprnft> zerquetschungsfähigkeit?! I wonder what that has to do with makefiles
20:13 <wrtlprnft> epsy: ?
20:13 <epsy> écrasement
20:13 <kidanger> epsy: tu peux leur traduire stp :D
20:14 <epsy> barf
20:14 <K-Yo> #t de en
20:14 <armabot> K-Yo: (babelfish translate <from-language> [to] <to-language> <text>) -- Returns <text> translated from <from-language> into <to-language>. Beware that translating to or from languages that use multi-byte characters may result in some very odd results.
20:14 <K-Yo> =P
20:14 <epsy> #babelize fr en anciennes commandes ignorées pour la cible « 4EXEEXT) »
20:14 <armabot> epsy: old orders ignorées for the target  "4EXEEXT) Â"
20:15 <wrtlprnft> that much i guessed
20:15  * wrtlprnft used to have french
20:15 <K-Yo> old commands ignored
20:15 <K-Yo> french ftw
20:15  * wrtlprnft wasn't too far from failing a grade because of it
20:15 <epsy> K-Yo ftl tho
20:15 <K-Yo> :P
20:17  * epsy is wondering what he could do
20:18 <kidanger> That's annoying (comment je parle bien anglais moi :D)
20:18 <epsy> what's annoying?
20:18 <kidanger> heu.. que ca marche pas
20:18 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: great english.
20:19 <kidanger> ^^
20:19 <epsy> lol :D
20:19 <epsy> zoink
20:19 <wrtlprnft> that french, too?
20:20 <epsy> possible
20:21 <kidanger> Someone know why the make doesn't work ?
20:21 <epsy> on met l'auxilliaire tt le temps dans un question :P
20:21 <epsy> une*
20:21 <kidanger> rho
20:21 <epsy> un question >.>
20:22  * wrtlprnft probably isn't totally wrong in saying the french language is to blame ;-)
20:23  * epsy is sitting down doin nothin
20:23 <epsy> ops
20:23  * epsy is sittin don doin nothin
20:23 <wrtlprnft> epsy: go and implement flying cycles
20:23 <kidanger> epsy: j'ai des lib*.a compressé en "ar" dans src, je dois pas les décompresser (on sait jamais) ?
20:23 <epsy> oh noes, that implies math
20:23 <epsy> got enough of math today
20:24 <epsy> O_o
20:24 <epsy> kidanger, make clean
20:24 <wrtlprnft> epsy: actually you need physics
20:24 <kidanger> Ca donne les même erreurs
20:24 <epsy> yes, and physics means math
20:24 <wrtlprnft> and most of the stuff those physics people do you can't call math
20:24 <wrtlprnft> like 1/∞
20:25 <epsy> heh
20:25 <ct|kyle> what do you know in Physics you know ∞
20:26 <epsy> i could still try to get python 2.5 working correctly
20:26 <epsy> at least for that blueman app
20:35 <epsy> ImportError: No module named pynotify
20:35 <epsy> hm
20:48 <kidanger> I have tried with the tar.gz and that works !
20:53 <kidanger> thx all
20:55 <K-Yo> no prob kidanger ;)
20:56 <epsy> hmmm
20:59 -!- Bougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
21:06 <epsy> weeeeh
21:07  * epsy 's audio now works over BT :))
21:07 <epsy> now i need to figure out how to set that to default output device
21:13 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@107.217-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
21:29 <kidanger> epsy: tu as un routeur/box ou un simple modem ?
21:30 <epsy> freebox
21:30 <epsy> en eth
21:30 <epsy> et en mode routeur :p
21:31 <kidanger> :P et tu l'as configuré pour les serveurs d'arma ?
21:31 <epsy> un peu
21:31 <guru3> someone come play tag
21:31 <kidanger> J'ai une neufbox, et là j'ai un pb :P
21:31 <K-Yo> me guru3
21:33 <kidanger> epsy: tu n'as pas changer dans firestarter quoi que ce soir ?
21:33 <epsy> c koi firestarter?
21:33 <kidanger> lol
21:33 <kidanger> parefeu linux
21:34 <wrtlprnft> http://novicious.com/twatch/?q=%A6%D7%A6epsy
21:34 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:34 <wrtlprnft> people are doing interesting things with my xml feed ;-)
21:34 <epsy> LOL!
21:35 <wrtlprnft> i guess that'll make my global player stats thing obsolete ;-)
21:35 <kidanger> epsy: tu as changer dans l'interface de la box ou dans la config du server ?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> it's containg lots of trash among the first places, anyways
21:36 <epsy> changé quoi?
21:36 <kidanger> Pour les ports
21:36 <epsy> ah
21:36 -!- Mixnetwork [n=chatzill@] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <epsy> ds la cfg du routeur
21:38 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:38 <epsy> Total play time:1 days, 0 hours
21:38 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
21:38 <epsy> :P
21:38 <kidanger> epsy: http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=neufconfigjj9.png
21:39 <kidanger> Tu penses que ca va ?
21:39 <kidanger> Parce que là ca marche pas :S
21:39 <epsy> redirige tt de 4534 à 4539
21:39 <epsy> essaye aussi sur le TCP
21:39 <epsy> bon sa sert à rien
21:40 <kidanger> En plage de ports ?
21:40 <epsy> oui
21:40 <kidanger> oki
21:41 <kidanger> ports de destination comme ports externe ?
21:42 <kidanger> epsy: [0] Bound socket to *.*.*.*:32853 C'est normal ?
21:43 <kidanger> (dsl pour mes questions hein)
21:43 <epsy> oui c normal
21:43 <kidanger> ok
21:43 <z-man> Oops.
21:44 <z-man> Arma on the mac in optimized mode wants to initialize a screen resolution of 1065353216x0 pixels.
21:45 <kidanger> epsy: et pour server_ip server_port je met quoi ? ^^
21:45 <epsy> server_ip rien
21:45 <epsy> server_port 4534
21:45 -!- Bougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:45 <kidanger> ok
21:46 <guru3> z-man: bug in auth, if you accidentally do /login and cancel it, then try /login forums, it still tries to log you into local
21:46 <z-man> With the absolutely current code?
21:46  * z-man fixed such a bug today
21:46 <guru3> with the checkout of 0.2.8
21:46 <kidanger> C'est bizare, je le vois pas dans local mais il y est une fois dans "internet"
21:46 <guru3> so could be not be the latest
21:46 <guru3> it's... 3 days old or so
21:46 <z-man> revision?
21:46 <z-man> ah, try updating.
21:47 <guru3> mah patch D:
21:47 <z-man> Well, if you'd use a bzr branch, you'd just do "bzr rebase" :)
21:47 <guru3> well if there's a conflict
21:47 <guru3> i don't that'd magically fix it
21:47 -!- flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/savas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:47 <z-man> No, it won't.
21:48 <guru3> which is the bit i'm afraid of
21:49 <guru3> bzr...
21:49  * guru3 does not know how to use
21:53 <z-man> Same as svn, basically, unless you go crazy with merging branches all over.
21:54  * guru3 starts registering at launchpad
21:57 <z-man> Don't forget to apply for membership at armagetronadmin while you're there.
21:58 <guru3> right
21:58 <guru3> i... have no idea how
22:00 -!- kidanger [n=kidanger@] has quit ["Vive le libre, vive KDE !"]
22:00 <z-man> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronadmin
22:00 <z-man> There must be a "request join" button somewhere
22:01 <z-man> or just tell me your ID :)
22:01 <guru3> guru3
22:02  * z-man just found the gdb console in xcode and is happy
22:03 <z-man> Ah, silly me, I had set the team to "restricted", no application was possible.
22:03 <z-man> Now the Evil Triumvirate is complete! Mwahahaha!
22:03 <guru3> and here i was thinking i was going crazy not being able to find the button
22:04 <guru3> we need a team logo
22:04 <z-man> It needs to be evil
22:04 <z-man> how about a trigram?
22:04 <z-man> Oh
22:04 <guru3> i'll get on something with three as the theme
22:04 <z-man> that would be a triangle :/
22:05  * z-man though you could do a pentagram with three corners
22:05 <guru3> lol
22:05 <guru3> this would be easier
22:05 <guru3> if i was any good at drawing
22:05 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
22:06 <guru3> i know what i want but i can't draw it at all
22:14 <guru3> we're set for an admins icon now
22:14 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-157-165-47.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
22:14 <guru3> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronadmin
22:15 <guru3> z-man: so... how do i do a branch?
22:15 <z-man> Do you have bzr installed?
22:15 <guru3> yes
22:15 <guru3> 0.17
22:16 <z-man> umm, better get 1.1
22:16 <guru3> i don't want to update portage :/
22:16 <z-man> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
22:16 <z-man> get the source
22:16 <z-man> it's python, just untar, cd, and ./setup.py install.
22:16 <guru3> i'm against the installing bit :/
22:17 <z-man> http://bazaar-vcs.org/Rebase
22:17 <wrtlprnft> can you install it into a user account?
22:17 <z-man> you'll want that too
22:17 <z-man> yes, you can, you just have to tell it the prefix
22:19 <guru3> do i need moin?
22:19 <z-man> No.
22:20 <guru3> ok that's installed
22:21 <z-man> Do you have your ssh key uploaded to Launchpad?
22:21 <guru3> no
22:21 <guru3> i use... different keys
22:22 <z-man> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-work
22:22 <z-man> that's your command line then.
22:22 <guru3> ok, in the meantime, it's moaning about no bzrlib :/
22:22 <guru3> i guess this is a side effect of prefix
22:23 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:23 <guru3> PYTHONPATH?
22:23 <z-man> Yep, you'll have to set that one.
22:23 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc3-oxfd8-0-0-cust1013.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
22:25 <z-man> For puplishing your branch, the easiest way would be to give launchpad one of your ssh keys.
22:25 <z-man> The slightly harder way is to just put it up on a webserver.
22:25 <guru3> well the problem is where i'm doing devel
22:25 <guru3> doesnt have a key
22:25 <z-man> ssh-keygen?
22:25 <guru3> i suppose
22:25 <guru3> only it wouldn't be good from anywhere else
22:25 <guru3> argh
22:26 <z-man> argh what?
22:27 <guru3> recursive security holes
22:27 <guru3> i have different keys for my desktop/laptop
22:27 <guru3> and for my 770/desktop in sweden
22:27 <guru3> based on how in my control they are/likely to be
22:27 <guru3> and now a third key
22:29 <guru3> ok key imported
22:29 <guru3> and that checkout patched
22:29 <guru3> now what?
22:31 <z-man> bzr push bzr+ssh://guru3@bazaar.launchpad.net/~guru3/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:31 <z-man> for example
22:31 <z-man> bzr push bzr+ssh://guru3@bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:31 <z-man> if you want the whole team to be involved.
22:31 <z-man> and the -tag would be the name of your branch.
22:31 <z-man> where literally -tag would be perfectly fine :)
22:32 <z-man> No worries, you can rename it any time.
22:32 <guru3> well
22:32 <guru3> let's see how this turns out
22:32 <guru3> i just ran that command from inside the -work directory
22:33 <z-man> No problem.
22:33 <z-man> You had the -work directory patched?
22:33 <guru3> yes
22:33 <guru3> just diffed svn and applied it
22:34 <guru3> that's done
22:35 <z-man> did you already do "bzr commit"
22:35 <z-man> ?
22:35 <guru3> no
22:35 <guru3> should i?
22:35 <z-man> Then do that, and then "bzr push"
22:35 <z-man> There's your branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:35 <guru3> AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
22:36 <guru3> it cmmits even with an empty commit message
22:36 <guru3> or maybe it doesn't
22:36 <z-man> What? My bzr refuses to.
22:36 <guru3> oh good
22:36 <guru3> it just does it in a non obvious way
22:37 <z-man> It does? Mine says EMPTY COMMIT MESSAGE, YOU N00B!
22:37 <guru3> says error
22:37 <guru3> not quite that obvious
22:38 <guru3> ive got a gGame.cpp.orig Oo
22:38 <z-man> Isn't that the result of rebeautification?
22:38 <z-man> Err, backup of rebeautification.
22:38 <guru3> oh, if you say so
22:39 <z-man> You should describe your branch here: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag/+edit
22:39 <z-man> Once your commit is done, of course.
22:40 <guru3> should i be worried how gGame.cpp.orig is under unknown in the commit message file?
22:40 <z-man> No, I just haven't gotten around to add it to .bzrignore.
22:40 <guru3> ok
22:40 <guru3> comitted
22:42 <z-man> "bzr push"
22:43 <z-man> a commit is, by default, only a local operation in your branch.
22:43 <guru3> okay
22:43 <guru3> this will take some getting used to i think
22:43 <z-man> Yeah, I constantly forget it, too.
22:43 <z-man> Once your branch is up on Launchpad, you can switch to work with checkouts, they behave like svn checkouts.
22:44 <z-man> I think you can transform your branch to a checkout with "bzr bind".
22:44 <z-man> got something.
22:44 <guru3> i'm ok with the branch
22:45 <z-man> Ah, you should also do `bzr whoami "REAL NAME <REAL MAIL ADDRESS>"
22:45 <z-man> currently, you're fcs <fcs@strawberry>
22:45 <guru3> yeah
22:46 <guru3> that's not so cool
22:46 <guru3> ran that
22:46 <guru3> anything else to do there?
22:46 <z-man> Edit the branch properties.
22:47 <z-man> Describe it a little.
22:47 <guru3> i did
22:47 <z-man> Ok, then you're done.
22:47 <z-man> Proudly post in the tag thread that we've got our first hack bzr branch :)
22:47 <guru3> is there anyway i can fix the fcs@strawberry thing?
22:48 <z-man> Yeah, you could redo everything.
22:48  * guru3 cries silently
22:48 <guru3> i guess that hostname and my real username are out then
22:48 <z-man> It's not so bad. I'm Mooos in some commits.
22:48 <guru3> that's not exactly a secret -_-
22:48 <z-man> With three o's?
22:48 <guru3> no
22:49 <guru3> i just would automatically have assumed typo
22:49 <guru3> or not even noticed
22:49 <guru3> tehre are too many os out there anyway
22:50  * z-man is still fighting with the OSX resolution thing
22:51 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
22:52 <guru3> i hope everyone likes the triumvirate logo
22:53 <guru3> :3
22:53 <z-man> OMG
22:54 <guru3> guess who's who
22:54 <guru3> :D
22:55  * z-man , you and Luci?
22:55 <guru3> is it obvious? are you sure?
22:55 <z-man> Dunno, the middle guy is the only one without special features
22:56 <z-man> Lucifer has his guitar
22:56 <z-man> and I suppose that dirt is supposed to be my hair :)
22:56 <guru3> actually beard
22:56 <guru3> as in the image of god being there with the beard :D
22:56 <z-man> ah
22:56 <guru3> if i was thinking straight i woulda put glasses on myself
23:11  * wrtlprnft wonders how hard shrinking holes would be
23:11 <guru3> i could maybe see growing ones...
23:11 <guru3> although shrinking ones would be more fun
23:12 <luke-jr> when do we get moving grid walls?
23:12 <wrtlprnft> well
23:12 <luke-jr> tbh, that's why I regret the implementation of maps ☺
23:13 <wrtlprnft> the walls that make up the holes are still there
23:13 <luke-jr> since clients load the map themselves instead of being described it by the server, we can't change things in it at game time
23:13 <wrtlprnft> the hole just tells the game to ignore them
23:14 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: otoh we avoid sending some huge heap of map data to each client at round start
23:14 <guru3> some things are meant to stay the same
23:14 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: true, but we lose the flexibility :/
23:14 <guru3> i think maps fall into that category
23:15 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: the engine isn't capable of handling moving walls anyways
23:15 <luke-jr> o
23:15 <wrtlprnft> cycles can't drive backwards
23:15 <guru3> and yet we do lag slides -_-
23:15 <wrtlprnft> or get pushed backwards
23:15 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ⁈
23:16 <epsy> kill it
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft>  | ←
23:16 <luke-jr> moving walls != cycles
23:16 <wrtlprnft>   | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft>    | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft>     | ←
23:16 <luke-jr> though, wind would be interesting
23:16 <wrtlprnft> the | is the wall, the ← the cycle
23:16 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ok?
23:16 <wrtlprnft> if we didn't have rubber it wouldn't be that big of a problem
23:17  * wrtlprnft hopes luke-jr's client shows leading spaces
23:17 <luke-jr> and then instead of death zones to end the rounds, have the walls slowly move inward :o
23:17 <luke-jr> actually
23:17 <luke-jr> that would be fscking scary
23:17  * luke-jr hides
23:17 <wrtlprnft> what do you do to a cycle that moves in parallel to a wall that moves in its direction?
23:18 <luke-jr> ?
23:18 <guru3> luke-jr: have a zone the shape of the map and gradually shrink it, you leave the zone you die
23:18 <luke-jr> guru3: that's v2?
23:18 <guru3> just an idea
23:18 <luke-jr> guru3: sounds good
23:18 <luke-jr> especially if you can throw a texture on the zone and make it full height
23:19 <luke-jr> then it replaces the walls ;)
23:19 <epsy>  *  The die message:
23:19 <epsy>  *   lazy upgrader detected
23:20 <epsy> it's always nice being insulted by its own computer
23:21 <wrtlprnft> looks like you can't easily undo holes, though
23:21 <luke-jr> use the source, wrtlprnft!
23:22 <epsy> gn
23:22 <guru3> i still want to drive throuh an outer wall
23:22 <guru3> and pop up across the grid
23:23 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
23:23 <wrtlprnft> guru3: stop thinking pacman
23:24 <wrtlprnft> guru3: threedimensional maps would solve that problem
23:24 <guru3> i hadnt been
23:24 <guru3> but i am now
23:24 <wrtlprnft> make a torus map ;)
23:24 <guru3> -_-
23:24 <guru3> the problem with what i imagine
23:24 <guru3> wouldnt work on anything but an open map
23:25 <wrtlprnft> just make it big enough
23:25 <wrtlprnft> or make special zones that teleport cycles
23:26 <guru3> hmm
23:26 <guru3> i could sort of imagine that
23:26 <guru3> except for dealing with walls
23:27 <wrtlprnft> ?
23:27 <guru3> i have no idea how i'd terminate the current wall
23:27 <guru3> and start the enw one after teleportation
23:27 <guru3> other than do it how respawning does it
23:27 <wrtlprnft> the usual method is to kill the cycle and respawn it at the other end of the map
23:27 <guru3> just that destroys the walls
23:34 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7814 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/render/rScreen.cpp: Made resolution definition fixed size to avoid errors (there appeared to be one overwrite erorr on OSX already).
23:35  * luke-jr notes ph's original World plans had multiple maps interconnected through Edges
23:43 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: sounds reasonable, i was thinking about that, too
23:46 <guru3> i'd forgotten about that
23:50 <z-man> gCycle::DropWall does the trick..
23:51 <z-man> guru3: I pushed up a small fix, your timestep function had no return value.
23:52 <guru3> eh
23:52 <guru3> i was sure it did
23:53 <z-man> It's there, but it was not returned.
23:54 <guru3> ahh i see
23:54  * guru3 blames copy paste

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