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Log from 2008-02-08:
--- Day changed Fri Feb 08 2008
01:13 <luke-jr> z-man: what do you think about either detecting recursive includes, or moving default settings into a different file, maybe a default.cfg?
01:14 <luke-jr> z-man: so that includes can start with defaults instead of default+settings_custom
01:15 <z-man> Umm, disabling recursive includes sounds smarter :)
01:19 <luke-jr> I'm not sure if that will solve the problem on its own, though
01:20 <luke-jr> since it would still include settings_custom
01:22 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7781 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added a way to request sync processes.
01:24 <z-man> and what's the problem with that?
01:27 <luke-jr> it prevents starting an include from defaults
02:21 <guru3> z-man: with auth, should i be able to let my Tank Program@forums have admin?
02:21 <z-man> Yes, if you want that.
02:22 <guru3> USER_LEVEL Tank\ Program@forums 0
02:22 <guru3> that should let me do everythibng right?
02:22 <z-man> I prefer a local account for admin rights, gives extra security, because then I can use the full features of the md5 hash protocol
02:22 <z-man> yes, that should do it.
02:22 <z-man> luke-jr: I still don't see a problem.
02:23 <guru3> i tried to do /admin something
02:23 <guru3> and it didn't work :<
02:23 <guru3> when i do /players
02:23 <guru3> it shows me logged in as Tank\_Program@forums
02:31 <guru3> looks liked i needed that _ as well
02:31 <guru3> if another player is logged in, will /players show me that?
02:41 <luke-jr> should
02:42 <guru3> ok
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02:52 <ct|kyle> the wiki down?
02:52 <guru3> who knows
02:53 <guru3> i'm busy feeling ticked off at zero v2
02:53 <ct|kyle> it won't load anything for me
02:53 <guru3> loads fine here
02:53 <ct|kyle> dam i hate my ISP just loads a blank page :(
02:58 <z-man> guru3: oh, yeah, sorry, you need the \_.
02:59 <guru3> oky doky
03:00 <guru3> zero... is starting to piss me off
03:00 <luke-jr> guru3: you need to put 'luke@dashjr.org' instead, actually!
03:00 <luke-jr> :þ
03:00 <guru3> lol
03:00 <luke-jr> who is zero?
03:00 <guru3> the guy who suggested tag
03:00 <luke-jr> ?
03:00 <luke-jr> o
03:00 <guru3> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18228
03:00 <luke-jr> you're doing this at user request? :þ
03:01 <guru3> no, i took his very broad idea and did it because i thought it was good
03:01 <guru3> it is in no way a collaboration
03:01 <guru3> this is me killing time
03:01 <guru3> as i very explicitly say in my latest post
03:02 <luke-jr> "making it so you have to core dump to score points and have to avoid other players. "
03:02 <luke-jr> that isn't LMS?
03:02 <guru3> lol
03:03 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7782 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/README): Underlined heading. Just testing the sync trigger :)
03:05 <guru3> oh well
03:05 <guru3> bed time
03:09 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7783 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/bzr-wait-for-commit.sh): Increased loop time.
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09:58 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7784 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. Makefile findsource make.config.template): Added source finding so this works nicely with default named bzr branches/checkouts.
10:34 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7785 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. findsource): whoops, set wrong variable.
10:34 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7786 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. .bzrignore): added ignore list.
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11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7787 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/findsource:
11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: Made more reliable.
11:23 <armabot> armagetronad: Also, let's find out how the svn/bzr syncing handles...
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7788 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README):
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
11:26 <armabot> armagetronad: Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 ...simultaneous commits from svn and bzr!
11:34 <wrtlprnft> isn't every pair of commits simultaneous from some point of view?
12:12 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7789 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/README: Not bad, but let's see how...
12:22 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7790 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README): ...new algorithm handles things.
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7791 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/:
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
12:23 <armabot> armagetronad: Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 ...new algorithm handles things.
12:23 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: yeah, that too. And the fact that the relevant speed of light for this operation is around 10 km/s only.
12:23 <z-man-work> argh
12:23 <z-man-work> I was afraid of that.
12:26 <z-man-work> So, new option: have empty merges in the history.
12:37 <luke-jr> …
12:38 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7792 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/README: undone second silly commit.
12:45 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7793 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/ (. README): undone one silly commit.
12:46 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7794 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_eclipse/: Empty merge to keep the peace between svn and bzr.
12:51 <z-man-work> luke-jr: if you have a better idea, do tell.
12:51 <luke-jr> I have no clue what you're doing
12:51 <luke-jr> or what the argh was about
12:52 <z-man-work> the argh was about the third commit with duplicate commit message.
12:52 <luke-jr> I see
12:54 <z-man-work> The next three commits were basically the same, just with a better message for the third commit.
12:54 <luke-jr> so what exactly are you doing anyway? :þ
12:56 <z-man-work> Two way syncing between our SVN repository and bzr branches on Launchpad :https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/
13:05 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7795 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/request-sync.sh): Adapted to the fact that it is simply called from .procmail without arguments.
13:06 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7796 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. synctools/bzr-commit.sh synctools/sync.sh): Better reshuffling of simultaneous commits in SVN and bzr.
13:06 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7797 /tools/bzr/trunk/ (. .bzrignore): Ignoring more stuff.
13:24 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7798 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): Added bzr ignore rules.
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13:38 <Mixnetwork> z-man?
13:38 <Mixnetwork> ther?
13:38 <Mixnetwork> e
13:38 <Mixnetwork> :)
13:39 <z-man-work> Yeah.
13:39 <Mixnetwork> posted the failures of the server with scrrenshots in the nixda.net board
13:39 <z-man-work> Ah good. I don't have my account data here, so I'll just look at it now.
13:40 <Mixnetwork> i hope it will help you
13:41 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:41 <z-man-work> Hmm, the second error is an assertion failure or something deep inside the code. Maybe from the team management.
13:42 <Mixnetwork> have you any idea why my config not works with only CONFIG_ROTATION and MAP_ROTATION Disabled
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13:42 <z-man-work> No, both should be independent.
13:42 <z-man-work> Were those crashes with the exact config you posted?
13:43 <Mixnetwork> strange , with me only both together work
13:43 <Mixnetwork> yepp
13:43 <Mixnetwork> but only on the windows server not for the linux one
13:44 <Mixnetwork> on linux untill now no problems
13:44 <z-man-work> Well, sometimes errors manifest themselves differently in different environments.
13:44 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/11a19113d5392a782f804c0937d55bd6.txt
13:44 <Mixnetwork> well the last error come everytime, always aftzer a while
13:45 <pippijn> z-man-work: "how to reduce redundancies in your code"
13:45 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7799 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/engine/ePlayer.cpp): Authentication changes are now visible in /players output right away; /logout and /login in the same round should no longer enforce keeping the authority.
13:46 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7800 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): more ignores.
13:46 <z-man-work> Ah, nice, but of course, it does not handle the "abstract * p = new implementation();" use case :)
13:46 <Mixnetwork> lol, sry i am not a programmer so i don't understand this stuff :)
13:46 <pippijn> z-man-work: why not?
13:46 <pippijn> ah, yes indeed
13:47 <pippijn> it can't
13:47 * z-man-work prefers auto-initializing smart pointers, they also handle the delete right away :)
13:48 <pippijn> right
13:48 <z-man-work> How does it work, anyway? Is "construct" a dummy proxy type with conversion operator to any pointer type?
13:48 <pippijn> yep
13:48 <z-man-work> Nice idea.
13:49 * z-man-work is off for lunch
13:49 <Mixnetwork> z-man: now i started teh server only with this CONFIG_ROTATION 1.cfg;2.cfg;3.cfg;4.cfg;5.cfg;6.cfg;7.cfg;8.cfg;9.cfg;10.cfg;11.cfg;12.cfg;13.cfg;14.cfg;15.cfg;
13:49 <Mixnetwork> ROTATION_TYPE 1
13:49 <pippijn> z-man-work: bon appetit
13:50 <Mixnetwork> does not work
13:50 <Mixnetwork> from me also ;)
13:50 <z-man-work> I'll have to look at that at home.
13:50 <Mixnetwork> ok
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14:36 <pippijn> z-man-work: you there?
14:36 <z-man-work> yep
14:37 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7801 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore): More ignores for those who build directly in the source tree.
14:37 <pippijn> auto-initialising pointers..
14:37 <pippijn> why would you use that?
14:38 <z-man-work> Well, for shared objects. of course, the auto-initialization would only be an optional feature, and also of course, it would not be the only thing the smart pointer does.
14:38 <z-man-work> It would also allow to share ownership, via reference counts, for example.
14:38 <pippijn> right
14:39 <z-man-work> Otherwise, yeah, one would just create an object on the stack :)
14:39 <pippijn> and copy it around
14:39 <pippijn> if you use CoW for your own classes, there is no need for auto-init pointers, is there?
14:41 <z-man-work> No.
14:41 <pippijn> good
14:41 <pippijn> that's what I wanted to know :-)
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7802 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. . src/engine/ePlayer.cpp src/engine/ePlayer.h): Fixed compilation on non-armathentication builds.
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7803 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. .bzrignore):
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: Let's see what happens if someone does not "bzr rebase", but "bzr merge" ro get his branch up to date.
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: merging:
14:42 <armabot> armagetronad: Manuel Mooos 2008-02-08 More ignores for those who build directly in the source tree.
14:46 <pippijn> z-man-work: isn't there an 'o' too many?
14:46 <z-man-work> Oh, crap :)
14:49 <z-man-work> Crap again. the effect of the "let's see what happens" is that the source tree gets reverted.
14:49 <z-man-work> It's not horrible, but a bit ugly.
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15:07 <Mixnetwork> z-man back again?
15:07 <z-man-work> Smart boy :)
15:07 <Mixnetwork> well it works now with only config_rotation
15:08 <z-man-work> Was there a trick?
15:08 <Mixnetwork> no it only works with real players and i just tested with me and bots
15:08 <z-man-work> #later tell guru3 Would you consider putting your tag hack into a bzr branch on Launchpad? :)
15:08 <armabot> z-man-work: The operation succeeded.
15:09 <Mixnetwork> is there a possibility that it works also with bots
15:09 <z-man-work> Hmm, I should have a look at that, the rotation is probably called from a wrong place.
15:09 <z-man-work> Not on 0.3.0, probably, not unless you hack the source.
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16:19 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7804 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. configure): Adapted to bzr branch names.
16:19 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7805 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build/ (. .bzrignore): added bzrignore file.
16:33 <epsy> who is bazaarmagetron ?
16:36 <z-man-work> My trusty automated bzr-svn merge bot.
16:36 <z-man-work> Neat, Lauchpad main branches get shortcuts:
16:36 <z-man-work> bzr branch lp:armagetronad/0.2.8
16:37 <z-man-work> Is all it takes to get our current 0.2.8-code :)
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17:10 <z-man-work> Ooh, and we could integrate Launchpad into our distributed auth system:
17:10 <z-man-work> https://launchpad.net/~z-man/+sshkeys
17:12 <z-man-work> (Not with our current hashes, of course)
17:17 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/ef5fef711286aaa341ad9eae4d0cb116.txt
17:18 <z-man-work> Isn't this what boost::functor does?
17:18 <pippijn> it's called boost::signal
17:18 <pippijn> and yes, it is
17:18 <pippijn> but mine is much faster
17:20 <pippijn> and mine don't need external linkage
17:20 <pippijn> I don't know what boost did to need 500KB of signals libraries..
17:20 <pippijn> it's probably more sophisticated than mine
17:21 <z-man-work> Yeah, the advertising blurb said it does not only work with functions, but with anything that looks like a function.
17:21 <pippijn> well
17:21 <pippijn> what looks like a function and is not?
17:22 <z-man-work> You callback, for example :)
17:22 <pippijn> hm?
17:22 <pippijn> you mean it supports functors?
17:22 <pippijn> function objects?
17:22 <z-man-work> If I understood the blurb correctly, yes.
17:22 <pippijn> I see
17:22 <pippijn> that is indeed something mine does not support
17:26 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://www.boost.org/doc/html/signals/s06.html#id1634696 <- either that left one is a stupid example or I'm stupid
17:26 <pippijn> why does it restrict itself to int?
17:27 <z-man-work> \\
17:27 <z-man-work> &=&
17:27 <z-man-work> 2\pi \delta\left(\frac{1}{i}\left( \mu_j(1,1) \alpha - 1 \right) \right) F(\ket{\phi_j(\alpha,1)})
17:27 <z-man-work> argh
17:27 <z-man-work> http://www.boost.org/libs/bind/bind.html
17:27 <z-man-work> That's the library I meant.
17:27 <pippijn> ah yes
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17:32 <z-man-work> They restrict it to int because it's an example :)
17:33 <pippijn> hm
17:33 <pippijn> mine is about 30 times faster than boost
17:34 <pippijn> and mine does actually support function objects
17:38 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/e0c3f4ed6c1f391ba08e9723574f3aa3.txt <- asm generated calling my callback
17:38 <pippijn> cb (2, "Hello", true, 'a');
17:39 <pippijn> the actual call is done here:
17:39 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/15aa4e113807ed7f786898e0f6adb23b.txt
17:46 <pippijn> heh
17:47 <pippijn> z-man-work: http://pip.one09.net/files/up/boost_signal_call.txt <- boost
17:47 <pippijn> no wonder mine is 30 times faster..
17:48 <pippijn> but mine is probably not as portable as boost's
17:48 <pippijn> mine doesn't work on operating systems using the medium memory model
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17:52 <pippijn> boost iterates through some tree first
17:53 <z-man-work> Yeah, it's more flexible.
17:53 <pippijn> I wonder how efficient my version will be when I have the same flexibility
17:54 <pippijn> probably still much faster than boost
17:54 <pippijn> it is either faster or exactly the same speed
17:54 <pippijn> there is no way of being faster than this
17:54 <pippijn> it's not even possible to write faster code in asm
17:55 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: what are you trying to do? is it arma related? :-D
17:55 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I'm developing some efficient algorithms
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17:56 <pippijn> I started that, because the algorithms and data structures in arma are extremely inefficient in many places
17:57 <kidanger> Where I can download the 0.2.8_alpha2008 version ?
17:58 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7806 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. src/engine/ePlayer.cpp): Fixed authentication compilation this time.
17:58 <z-man-work> http://beta.armagetronad.net
17:59 <kidanger> and for server ?
17:59 <z-man-work> Same URL :)
18:00 <kidanger> arf >.< thx :)
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18:04 <kidanger> I have an error when I do the ./bootstrap.sh : http://rafb.net/p/Ip4yo434.html
18:04 * wrtlprnft hopes pippijn doesn't say that just because he looked at the cockpit code
18:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: no
18:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tArray
18:05 <z-man-work> kidanger: which version of the autotools do you have?
18:05 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: did you download a released version or is this SVN
18:05 <wrtlprnft> because the released versions don't need bootstrap.sh IIRC
18:05 <kidanger> wrtlprnft: with the z-man-work's url
18:05 <z-man-work> That's correct, ./bootstrap.sh isn't needed there.
18:06 <kidanger> ok
18:06 <z-man-work> Nevertheless, if it's a newer version of autotools, then I'd be worried ;)
18:06 <z-man-work> what does "autoconf --version" say?
18:06 <z-man-work> and "automake --version"?
18:06 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: i'd love to just replace tArray by a std::vector or std::deque, but it's used in too many places and you're not supposed to inherit any of the std::containers
18:06 <kidanger> automake (GNU automake) 1.4-p6
18:07 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: who says you're not supposed to do that?
18:07 <kidanger> autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61
18:07 <z-man-work> Your automake is quite ancient :)
18:07 <wrtlprnft> automake (GNU automake) 1.10
18:07 <wrtlprnft> oh, nvm
18:07 <wrtlprnft> i though 1.10 < 1.4
18:07 <wrtlprnft> stupid me trying to do math
18:08 <pippijn> :-)
18:08 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I've been tricked by that, too
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r7807 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (. acinclude.m4 configure.ac):
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Requiring the most recent zthreads now.
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Checking whether -fpermissive is required.
18:08 <wrtlprnft> 2. Perceived flaws due to the requirement to maximize speed and minimize space usage
18:08 <wrtlprnft> STL containers are not intended to be used as base classes (their destructors are deliberately non-virtual). Deriving from a container is a common mistake made by novices.[citation needed]
18:09 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Template_Library
18:09 <wrtlprnft> it says citation needed, though
18:09 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's wrong.
18:09 <wrtlprnft> although our kind of inheriting would probably be safer
18:09 <z-man-work> Well, as long as you don't pass them around as pointers to the base class type, you're safe.
18:10 <wrtlprnft> because we wouldn't need to add data members or a custom destructor
18:10 <wrtlprnft> just add wrapper functions so the old code still works
18:10 <z-man-work> Yep, that, too :)
18:10 <wrtlprnft> want me to try doing that?
18:10 <wrtlprnft> *try to do that
18:11 <z-man-work> Not yet. I'd rather get rid of the autoexpanding of tArray, which is it's biggest flaw, in the same go.
18:11 <wrtlprnft> is that actually used?
18:11 <z-man-work> And that would of course destroy merging from 0.2.8.
18:11 <z-man-work> oooooh yes.
18:11 <wrtlprnft> ouch
18:12 * wrtlprnft doesn't want to be the guy who designed it
18:12 <z-man-work> The default way to add an element is array[array.Len()]=stuff;
18:13 <z-man-work> It seemed like a good idea at that time :)
18:13 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
18:13 <wrtlprnft> the real problem is that you can't know whether the [] operator is used to get the value of an array element or to set it
18:14 <z-man-work> That's why there also is the () operator...
18:15 <z-man-work> I would prefer a debuggable array. Something where, if you say "p array" in gdb, you get actually readable output.
18:15 <z-man-work> tArray isn't, and std::vector is even less.
18:15 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's a problem
18:15 <z-man-work> Does gdb support print hooks?
18:16 <wrtlprnft> you can call functions from gdb
18:16 <z-man-work> yeah.
18:16 <wrtlprnft> you could make a function that returns an array of references to the real objects
18:16 <pippijn> z-man-work
18:16 <pippijn> 18:15 < z-man-work> Well, as long as you don't pass them around as pointers to the base class type, you're safe.
18:16 <wrtlprnft> or pointers, dunno if you can make an array of references
18:16 <pippijn> you're even safe as long as you don't delete through a base pointer
18:16 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: you can't
18:17 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: and about the container inheritance.. it's a common mistake made by novices to inherit from them and not consider the danger
18:17 <z-man-work> pippijn: well, there also is the overload vs overwrite problem on regular functions.
18:18 <pippijn> ...
18:18 <pippijn> why is everybody calling this a "problem"?
18:18 <pippijn> it's all well-defined in the standard
18:18 <pippijn> ONLY deleting is undefined behaviour
18:18 <z-man-work> If X::F() is nonvirtual, and you derive Y from X, define Y::F()
18:19 <z-man-work> well defined stuff can still be problematic :)
18:19 <pippijn> only for novices :-)
18:19 <z-man-work> Standard n00b-attitude :)
18:20 <z-man-work> "I'm smart, I can handle this!"
18:20 <pippijn> I'm not smart, I'm careful
18:20 <z-man-work> Fact is, in a large codebase, you better eliminate all unexpected behavior at the root.
18:21 <pippijn> well..
18:21 <wrtlprnft> “I'm smart, i can handle automatically expanding arrays”
18:21 <z-man-work> and if x.F() does a different thing if x is of type Y depending on whether it is known to the current function as type X or type Y, that is a problem.
18:21 <pippijn> if you derive from std::vector and don't tell anybody but do write a comment at its definition that you are not supposed to use this as "std::vector", then you're pretty safe
18:21 <z-man-work> wrtlprnft: STFU :)
18:22 <pippijn> z-man-work: just don't use the derived as base
18:22 <pippijn> inherit functionality, inherit speed but act as if you didn't inherit anything
18:22 <pippijn> or use rona::vector :P
18:22 <pippijn> which does have a virtual destructor
18:22 <wrtlprnft> z-man-work: the same problem applies to tString : std::string
18:22 <z-man-work> Then you should make the inheritance private, or embed the base class.
18:22 <wrtlprnft> but i don't want to miss it in the trunk
18:22 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tString?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> tString.
18:22 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: tString is a piece of crap :-(
18:23 * wrtlprnft is talking about the trunk tString
18:23 <pippijn> it implements several existing std::string and <algorithm> functions
18:23 <wrtlprnft> yeah, because the old code needs them
18:23 <pippijn> and those reimplementations are less efficient than the std:: ones from glibc
18:23 <z-man-work> With added bugs!
18:23 <wrtlprnft> we do want to get rid of them
18:23 <pippijn> good
18:23 <wrtlprnft> but we can't right now
18:23 <pippijn> I know :-\
18:24 * z-man-work has to shut down the PC
18:24 <pippijn> if you could, I'd be helping
18:24 -!- z-man-work [n=moos@l23.thp.uni-koeln.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:24 <wrtlprnft> let's get rid of 0.2.8 ASAP
18:24 <pippijn> I couldn't agree more
18:27 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: have you seen my construct()
18:27 <wrtlprnft> no
18:27 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/11a19113d5392a782f804c0937d55bd6.txt
18:27 <pippijn> there is a malloc(), too
18:28 <pippijn> A *a = malloc (); // allocates without calling the constructor, good for POD types
18:28 <wrtlprnft> what does construct() return?
18:29 <pippijn> a struct rona::throws::detail::placement
18:29 <pippijn> which has an operator T *()
18:29 <pippijn> which calls malloc(sizeof (T)) and new (ptr) T;
18:29 <pippijn> it could probably just call new T
18:30 <guru3> banzai
18:30 <guru3> steam is working under wine
18:30 <wrtlprnft> and… what's the advantage?
18:30 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: less redundancy
18:30 <wrtlprnft> i don't see it right now ;)
18:30 <pippijn> especially for malloc()
18:31 <wrtlprnft> what about
18:31 <wrtlprnft> Base *b;
18:31 <pippijn> forget it
18:31 <wrtlprnft> if(some_cond)
18:31 <pippijn> that won't work
18:31 <wrtlprnft> b = new Derived1(adsf);
18:31 <wrtlprnft> etc
18:31 <pippijn> it's specifically for POD types
18:31 <pippijn> int *i = malloc ();
18:32 <pippijn> no need to name the type a second time
18:34 <wrtlprnft> makes sense i guess
18:34 <wrtlprnft> what about constructors with parametes?
18:34 <wrtlprnft> *ers
18:35 <pippijn> I am aware of the limitations
18:35 <pippijn> it would be possible to have constructors with parameters in C++0x
18:35 <pippijn> in C++03, as well, but it would blow up the library
18:35 <pippijn> because of variadic template emulation
18:37 <wrtlprnft> still looks like syntactical sugar to me that can only be used in some relatively rare conditions
18:47 <epsy> #sd -v bug
18:47 <armabot> epsy: Bugfarm Fortress Clone with ladders and Flying Deathzones (87.106.101.25:4536) running 0.2.8_alpha20071210 unix dedic, url: http://www.crazy-tronners.com, Description: “AFL Fortress Settings.“, Players (6/16): <<WiR>>$oldier, <<WiR>>Freetax, <<WiR>>Raiden, ct°$afari$kater, halban, Mart
18:50 <guru3> #sd -v tag
18:50 <armabot> guru3: Tag Test (81.235.164.45:4537) running 0.2.8_alpha20080206 unix dedic, url: http://www.armagetronad.net, Description: “All settings at default values.“, No online players.
18:50 <guru3> i should fix those details
18:53 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:54 <epsy> love_to gives autban
18:54 <epsy> move*
18:56 <epsy> ..
18:56 <epsy> move_to gives an autoban actually :/
18:57 <wrtlprnft> epsy: current clients don't support it
18:58 <epsy> i tried it on myself
18:59 <wrtlprnft> epsy: i think it just doesn't count as much as kick_to
19:00 <MrBougo> #crazylate micro soft sucks
19:00 <epsy> still the same 4 minutes heh
19:00 <armabot> MrBougo: Error: Couldn't talk to server: [Errno socket error] timed out
19:00 <MrBougo> :/
19:01 <wrtlprnft> z-man: at least with std::stuff, if the code uses operator[] of your type somewhere you can at least to print someVector[0] in gdb
19:05 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7808 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/ (4 files): Authentfication -> Authentication
19:07 <wrtlprnft> the fi already made it to codeblocks?
19:08 <z-man> Of course, the files were there all the time already, and were used by the clientside password query code.
19:08 <wrtlprnft> ah
19:08 <z-man> I'm not activating KRAWALL_SERVER, of course. Not in the mood to add another libraty.
19:11 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7809 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): OMG! More AuthentiFIcation. Empty stub files, but nevertheless.
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7810 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/makedist.bat: Copied over from build_visualc. We don't use Visual C any more, so this here is a better place for the working version.
19:20 <pippijn> wrtlprnft, z-man: do you use singletons?
19:21 <z-man> Worse!
19:21 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7811 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/MacOS/Armagetron Advanced.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: eAuthentication here, too.
19:21 <pippijn> z-man: what?
19:21 <z-man> We've got tons of global variables.
19:21 <z-man> Some use the singleton pattern, but that doesn't make them less global.
19:22 <z-man> (sure, for some things, like the classes that manage settings, you need one global manager object)
19:25 <pippijn> z-man: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/e0d9c42bc7e5008f62043b457b7f245c.txt
19:26 <pippijn> z-man: this is a severe problem
19:26 <pippijn> z-man: global construction order is undefined
19:27 <z-man> Yep, and we don't depend on it.
19:28 <wrtlprnft> what about menus?
19:28 <z-man> Apart from the memory manager that can't be a singleton for some reason I forgot.
19:28 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/d8e3c41c00c274c1dccf6658ed051d30.txt
19:28 <pippijn> ah no
19:28 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/cb009bbe4f9b2bdca45317f9f97d597c.txt <- here
19:28 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i actually like the way config items work
19:29 <wrtlprnft> is that a bad thing, too?
19:29 <z-man> Well, they could be a bit easier to set up.
19:29 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: as long as one config item doesn't depend on the existence of another
19:29 <z-man> For one, the split into the variable and the config item is cumbersome.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that's true
19:30 <wrtlprnft> and the fact that the names of the global config item objects are totally useless
19:30 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: config items are ints or floats or strings at worst; they can't depend on each other
19:30 <z-man> Exactly.
19:31 <wrtlprnft> how would you solve it now?
19:31 <pippijn> does arma use boost?
19:31 <wrtlprnft> the trunk does
19:31 <wrtlprnft> a little but
19:32 <wrtlprnft> *bit
19:32 <pippijn> okay
19:32 <pippijn> good
19:32 <wrtlprnft> we're not sure if we want to keep that huge dependency, though
19:32 <pippijn> if you use it a lot, it's good
19:32 <pippijn> if you use it a little, it's a huge dependency
19:32 <pippijn> if you can do without, don't use it
19:32 <pippijn> (if you can do nicely without)
19:33 <pippijn> if you start writing inefficient container classes because you don't want to use boost, I'd say don't
19:33 <wrtlprnft> there's no way to write a c++ program without reimplementing some bit of boost functionality
19:33 <pippijn> (in other words: do use boost)
19:33 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: of course
19:33 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: again, those container classes are old
19:33 <pippijn> I know :-)
19:34 <wrtlprnft> if arma was written from scratch today they probably wouldn't be written or at least not in the same way
19:34 <pippijn> use stdlib and tr1
19:34 <pippijn> and use c++09 when it stabilises
19:34 <wrtlprnft> i don't see any fundamental inefficiency in the containers, though…
19:34 <wrtlprnft> they're just unoptimized, weirdly named and sometimes cubersome to use
19:35 <pippijn> I see both inefficiency and brokenness
19:35 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: pushing stuff into a tArray is over 100 times slower than std::vector::push_back
19:35 <pippijn> and over 300 times slower than rona::adt::vector::push_back
19:36 <wrtlprnft> wtf is rona, anyways?
19:36 <pippijn> my algorithms, containers and streams library
19:36 <wrtlprnft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rona_(company)
19:36 <wrtlprnft> o_O.
19:36 <pippijn> no, I am not rona (company)
19:36 <pippijn> and I should probably rename it when I publish it
19:37 <wrtlprnft> i wonder why it is that slow
19:37 <wrtlprnft> GrowingArrayBase is growing exponentially i hope
19:38 <pippijn> the use of GrowingArrayBase is a cool hack
19:38 <pippijn> it allows for insane things like T &operator () (int) const
19:39 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/aec3fc66d7a9c801d2934b6866b91067.txt
19:39 <pippijn> same for void *Base() const {return base;}
19:39 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7812 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/render/rConsoleCout.cpp: Win32 compatibility.
19:39 <pippijn> arma code relies on being able to modify const arrays
19:40 <pippijn> or more precisely: modify const arrays' elements
19:40 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7813 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/build_codeblocks/ (Armagetron.cbp Armagetron.workspace Dedicated.cbp): Added gFirends
19:40 <wrtlprnft> firends sounds funny
19:41 <pippijn> how much code is shared between server and client?
19:41 * z-man is typoing a lot lately.
19:41 <z-man> pippijn: almost all.
19:41 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: note that clients can act as hybrid servers
19:41 <pippijn> is there any reason not to create a libarmagetron?
19:41 <wrtlprnft> although those servers can't do everything real servers can
19:41 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: why not?
19:42 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: currently the difference between a server and a client is basically a -DDEDICATED
19:42 <pippijn> right
19:43 <z-man> The server does not have to display the current gamestate, so it is more flexible with the way time flows in the simulation, and can compensate lag better.
19:44 <pippijn> 92 reinterpret_casts
19:44 <pippijn> are those really necessary?
19:45 <pippijn> void* can be cast to T* using static_cast without problems
19:45 <wrtlprnft> so?
19:45 <pippijn> so why use reinterpret_cast?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> why not?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> if they do the same thing
19:45 <pippijn> 'reinterpret' is longer to type and indicates that you are doing something evil
19:46 <wrtlprnft> maybe to avoid people who use grep -r reinterpret_cast src | wc -l as a measure of quality
19:46 <pippijn> casting between pointer and integer for example would be evil
19:46 <wrtlprnft> i don't think we do that
19:46 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I'm not using it to measure quality
19:46 <wrtlprnft> openGL does, though
19:47 <wrtlprnft> i guess we're lucky that pippijn isn't ripping the trunk into pieces, but 0.3.0
19:47 <wrtlprnft> so he doesn't see src/swig/ext/armagetronad_wrap.cxx
19:48 <pippijn> I don't think I want to see that
19:49 <wrtlprnft> mathias@colin $ grep reinterpret_cast ../src/swig/ext/armagetronad_wrap.cxx | wc -l ~/armagetronad3/armagetronad2/build2
19:49 <wrtlprnft> 546
19:49 <pippijn> !?
19:50 <pippijn> is that what swig generates?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yeah
19:50 <pippijn> :-\
19:50 <wrtlprnft> including reinterpret_cast<void**>
19:50 <pippijn> .
19:50 <wrtlprnft> as if there was any difference between a void * and a void ***************
19:51 <pippijn> I used swig once
19:51 <pippijn> it's usable
19:51 <pippijn> but really just usable
19:52 <pippijn> I wouldn't use it again
19:52 <wrtlprnft> actually, where are the limits of static_cast for pointers?
19:52 <pippijn> the generated API is nothing compared to handwritten ones
19:52 <wrtlprnft> you can cast from/to void pointers, probably between signed and unsigned, anything else?
19:53 <pippijn> uh
19:53 <pippijn> static_cast can not cast between signed*/unsigned*
19:53 <wrtlprnft> oh well
19:53 <pippijn> it can cast between void* and T*
19:53 <pippijn> and between Base and Derived
19:53 <pippijn> up and down
19:53 <wrtlprnft> err
19:54 <wrtlprnft> isn't that the job of dynamic_cast?
19:54 <pippijn> no
19:54 <wrtlprnft> at least from base to derived
19:54 <pippijn> the job of dynamic_cast is to cast down typesafely
19:54 <pippijn> static_cast does so without runtime checks
19:54 <wrtlprnft> sounds evil.
19:54 <pippijn> well
19:54 <pippijn> not really
19:55 <pippijn> if you're sure that the only thing that particular object can be is DerivedX then it's safe
19:55 <wrtlprnft> so i can do static_cast<float *>(static_cast<void *>(new double))?
19:55 <pippijn> yes
19:56 <wrtlprnft> sounds more evil than dynamic_cast<float *>(new double)
19:56 <wrtlprnft> because it hides stuff
19:56 <pippijn> you can't do that
19:56 <wrtlprnft> err
19:56 <wrtlprnft> reinterpret_cast
19:56 <wrtlprnft> sorry
19:56 <pippijn> of course
19:56 <pippijn> and you should never do what you said
19:57 <pippijn> signed to unsigned is okay, but between two different floating point types is murder
19:57 <wrtlprnft> heh
19:57 <wrtlprnft> 0 stays 0, though.
19:57 <pippijn> and that's it :-)
19:58 <pippijn> hm
19:58 <wrtlprnft> -0 stays -0, too :D
19:58 <pippijn> I doubt it
19:58 <pippijn> depending on the way of casting
19:59 <pippijn> you can't, in C++, cast between float and double
19:59 <pippijn> in standard C++ that is
19:59 <pippijn> but you can cheat
19:59 <pippijn> even with standard C++
19:59 <wrtlprnft> yeah, i know
20:01 <z-man> Oh great, dlh's domain has been grabbed.
20:01 <pippijn> double d = 0; double const &dr = d; float f = reinterpret_cast<float const &> (dr);
20:01 <pippijn> that will work
20:01 <z-man> Now where do I get the recorder app from?
20:02 <wrtlprnft> z-man: i noticed
20:03 <wrtlprnft> std::cerr << *reinterpret_cast<float *>(new double(.2 * -1)) << std::endl;
20:03 <wrtlprnft> prints 0.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> err
20:03 <wrtlprnft> stupid
20:03 <wrtlprnft> nvm.
20:03 <wrtlprnft> no, it works with .0 * -1, too
20:04 <wrtlprnft> actually a lot of stuff becomes 0 as a float ;)
20:05 <wrtlprnft> but -0 != 0 :D
20:05 <pippijn> ;-)
20:06 <pippijn> yes
20:06 <wrtlprnft> although amazingly it passes the equality test
20:07 <kidanger> http://rafb.net/p/gqg2JN73.html >> error when I do "make"
20:09 * wrtlprnft loves trying to decipher french error messages ;-D
20:10 <kidanger> sry :-)
20:11 <z-man> Looks like a charset messup.
20:11 <wrtlprnft> http://dict.leo.org/frde?lp=frde&p=eL4jZr&search=%E9crasement
20:11 <wrtlprnft> lol.
20:12 <epsy> wrtlprnft, overloading?
20:12 <z-man> Makefile:339: attention : écrasement des commandes pour la cible « 1000 »
20:12 <z-man> wrtlprnft: helpful.
20:12 <wrtlprnft> z-man: indeed
20:12 <z-man> Sounds to me as if the Makefile is totally borked.
20:13 <wrtlprnft> zerquetschungsfähigkeit?! I wonder what that has to do with makefiles
20:13 <wrtlprnft> epsy: ?
20:13 <epsy> écrasement
20:13 <kidanger> epsy: tu peux leur traduire stp :D
20:14 <epsy> barf
20:14 <K-Yo> #t de en
20:14 <armabot> K-Yo: (babelfish translate <from-language> [to] <to-language> <text>) -- Returns <text> translated from <from-language> into <to-language>. Beware that translating to or from languages that use multi-byte characters may result in some very odd results.
20:14 <K-Yo> =P
20:14 <epsy> #babelize fr en anciennes commandes ignorées pour la cible « 4EXEEXT) »
20:14 <armabot> epsy: old orders ignorées for the target  "4EXEEXT) Â"
20:15 <wrtlprnft> that much i guessed
20:15 * wrtlprnft used to have french
20:15 <K-Yo> old commands ignored
20:15 <K-Yo> french ftw
20:15 * wrtlprnft wasn't too far from failing a grade because of it
20:15 <epsy> K-Yo ftl tho
20:15 <K-Yo> :P
20:17 * epsy is wondering what he could do
20:18 <kidanger> That's annoying (comment je parle bien anglais moi :D)
20:18 <epsy> what's annoying?
20:18 <kidanger> heu.. que ca marche pas
20:18 <wrtlprnft> kidanger: great english.
20:19 <kidanger> ^^
20:19 <epsy> lol :D
20:19 <epsy> zoink
20:19 <wrtlprnft> that french, too?
20:20 <epsy> possible
20:21 <kidanger> Someone know why the make doesn't work ?
20:21 <epsy> on met l'auxilliaire tt le temps dans un question :P
20:21 <epsy> une*
20:21 <kidanger> rho
20:21 <epsy> un question >.>
20:22 * wrtlprnft probably isn't totally wrong in saying the french language is to blame ;-)
20:23 * epsy is sitting down doin nothin
20:23 <epsy> ops
20:23 * epsy is sittin don doin nothin
20:23 <wrtlprnft> epsy: go and implement flying cycles
20:23 <kidanger> epsy: j'ai des lib*.a compressé en "ar" dans src, je dois pas les décompresser (on sait jamais) ?
20:23 <epsy> oh noes, that implies math
20:23 <epsy> got enough of math today
20:24 <epsy> O_o
20:24 <epsy> kidanger, make clean
20:24 <wrtlprnft> epsy: actually you need physics
20:24 <kidanger> Ca donne les même erreurs
20:24 <epsy> yes, and physics means math
20:24 <wrtlprnft> and most of the stuff those physics people do you can't call math
20:24 <wrtlprnft> like 1/∞
20:25 <epsy> heh
20:25 <ct|kyle> what do you know in Physics you know ∞
20:26 <epsy> i could still try to get python 2.5 working correctly
20:26 <epsy> at least for that blueman app
20:35 <epsy> ImportError: No module named pynotify
20:35 <epsy> hm
20:48 <kidanger> I have tried with the tar.gz and that works !
20:53 <kidanger> thx all
20:55 <K-Yo> no prob kidanger ;)
20:56 <epsy> hmmm
20:59 -!- Bougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
21:06 <epsy> weeeeh
21:07 * epsy 's audio now works over BT :))
21:07 <epsy> now i need to figure out how to set that to default output device
21:13 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@107.217-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:27 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
21:29 <kidanger> epsy: tu as un routeur/box ou un simple modem ?
21:30 <epsy> freebox
21:30 <epsy> en eth
21:30 <epsy> et en mode routeur :p
21:31 <kidanger> :P et tu l'as configuré pour les serveurs d'arma ?
21:31 <epsy> un peu
21:31 <guru3> someone come play tag
21:31 <kidanger> J'ai une neufbox, et là j'ai un pb :P
21:31 <K-Yo> me guru3
21:33 <kidanger> epsy: tu n'as pas changer dans firestarter quoi que ce soir ?
21:33 <epsy> c koi firestarter?
21:33 <kidanger> lol
21:33 <kidanger> parefeu linux
21:34 <wrtlprnft> http://novicious.com/twatch/?q=%A6%D7%A6epsy
21:34 <wrtlprnft> o_O
21:34 <wrtlprnft> people are doing interesting things with my xml feed ;-)
21:34 <epsy> LOL!
21:35 <wrtlprnft> i guess that'll make my global player stats thing obsolete ;-)
21:35 <kidanger> epsy: tu as changer dans l'interface de la box ou dans la config du server ?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> it's containg lots of trash among the first places, anyways
21:36 <epsy> changé quoi?
21:36 <kidanger> Pour les ports
21:36 <epsy> ah
21:36 -!- Mixnetwork [n=chatzill@91.66.227.92] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <epsy> ds la cfg du routeur
21:38 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:38 <epsy> Total play time:1 days, 0 hours
21:38 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
21:38 <epsy> :P
21:38 <kidanger> epsy: http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=neufconfigjj9.png
21:39 <kidanger> Tu penses que ca va ?
21:39 <kidanger> Parce que là ca marche pas :S
21:39 <epsy> redirige tt de 4534 à 4539
21:39 <epsy> essaye aussi sur le TCP
21:39 <epsy> bon sa sert à rien
21:40 <kidanger> En plage de ports ?
21:40 <epsy> oui
21:40 <kidanger> oki
21:41 <kidanger> ports de destination comme ports externe ?
21:42 <kidanger> epsy: [0] Bound socket to *.*.*.*:32853 C'est normal ?
21:43 <kidanger> (dsl pour mes questions hein)
21:43 <epsy> oui c normal
21:43 <kidanger> ok
21:43 <z-man> Oops.
21:44 <z-man> Arma on the mac in optimized mode wants to initialize a screen resolution of 1065353216x0 pixels.
21:45 <kidanger> epsy: et pour server_ip server_port je met quoi ? ^^
21:45 <epsy> server_ip rien
21:45 <epsy> server_port 4534
21:45 -!- Bougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:45 <kidanger> ok
21:46 <guru3> z-man: bug in auth, if you accidentally do /login and cancel it, then try /login forums, it still tries to log you into local
21:46 <z-man> With the absolutely current code?
21:46 * z-man fixed such a bug today
21:46 <guru3> with the checkout of 0.2.8
21:46 <kidanger> C'est bizare, je le vois pas dans local mais il y est une fois dans "internet"
21:46 <guru3> so could be not be the latest
21:46 <guru3> it's... 3 days old or so
21:46 <z-man> revision?
21:46 <z-man> ah, try updating.
21:47 <guru3> mah patch D:
21:47 <z-man> Well, if you'd use a bzr branch, you'd just do "bzr rebase" :)
21:47 <guru3> well if there's a conflict
21:47 <guru3> i don't that'd magically fix it
21:47 -!- flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/savas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:47 <z-man> No, it won't.
21:48 <guru3> which is the bit i'm afraid of
21:49 <guru3> bzr...
21:49 * guru3 does not know how to use
21:53 <z-man> Same as svn, basically, unless you go crazy with merging branches all over.
21:54 * guru3 starts registering at launchpad
21:57 <z-man> Don't forget to apply for membership at armagetronadmin while you're there.
21:58 <guru3> right
21:58 <guru3> i... have no idea how
22:00 -!- kidanger [n=kidanger@77.201.163.250] has quit ["Vive le libre, vive KDE !"]
22:00 <z-man> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronadmin
22:00 <z-man> There must be a "request join" button somewhere
22:01 <z-man> or just tell me your ID :)
22:01 <guru3> guru3
22:02 * z-man just found the gdb console in xcode and is happy
22:03 <z-man> Ah, silly me, I had set the team to "restricted", no application was possible.
22:03 <z-man> Now the Evil Triumvirate is complete! Mwahahaha!
22:03 <guru3> and here i was thinking i was going crazy not being able to find the button
22:04 <guru3> we need a team logo
22:04 <z-man> It needs to be evil
22:04 <z-man> how about a trigram?
22:04 <z-man> Oh
22:04 <guru3> i'll get on something with three as the theme
22:04 <z-man> that would be a triangle :/
22:05 * z-man though you could do a pentagram with three corners
22:05 <guru3> lol
22:05 <guru3> this would be easier
22:05 <guru3> if i was any good at drawing
22:05 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@142.245-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
22:06 <guru3> i know what i want but i can't draw it at all
22:14 <guru3> we're set for an admins icon now
22:14 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-157-165-47.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
22:14 <guru3> https://launchpad.net/~armagetronadmin
22:15 <guru3> z-man: so... how do i do a branch?
22:15 <z-man> Do you have bzr installed?
22:15 <guru3> yes
22:15 <guru3> 0.17
22:16 <z-man> umm, better get 1.1
22:16 <guru3> i don't want to update portage :/
22:16 <z-man> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
22:16 <z-man> get the source
22:16 <z-man> it's python, just untar, cd, and ./setup.py install.
22:16 <guru3> i'm against the installing bit :/
22:17 <z-man> http://bazaar-vcs.org/Rebase
22:17 <wrtlprnft> can you install it into a user account?
22:17 <z-man> you'll want that too
22:17 <z-man> yes, you can, you just have to tell it the prefix
22:19 <guru3> do i need moin?
22:19 <z-man> No.
22:20 <guru3> ok that's installed
22:21 <z-man> Do you have your ssh key uploaded to Launchpad?
22:21 <guru3> no
22:21 <guru3> i use... different keys
22:22 <z-man> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-work
22:22 <z-man> that's your command line then.
22:22 <guru3> ok, in the meantime, it's moaning about no bzrlib :/
22:22 <guru3> i guess this is a side effect of prefix
22:23 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc5-oxfd8-0-0-cust434.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:23 <guru3> PYTHONPATH?
22:23 <z-man> Yep, you'll have to set that one.
22:23 -!- Hoax- [n=Hoax@cpc3-oxfd8-0-0-cust1013.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
22:25 <z-man> For puplishing your branch, the easiest way would be to give launchpad one of your ssh keys.
22:25 <z-man> The slightly harder way is to just put it up on a webserver.
22:25 <guru3> well the problem is where i'm doing devel
22:25 <guru3> doesnt have a key
22:25 <z-man> ssh-keygen?
22:25 <guru3> i suppose
22:25 <guru3> only it wouldn't be good from anywhere else
22:25 <guru3> argh
22:26 <z-man> argh what?
22:27 <guru3> recursive security holes
22:27 <guru3> i have different keys for my desktop/laptop
22:27 <guru3> and for my 770/desktop in sweden
22:27 <guru3> based on how in my control they are/likely to be
22:27 <guru3> and now a third key
22:29 <guru3> ok key imported
22:29 <guru3> and that checkout patched
22:29 <guru3> now what?
22:31 <z-man> bzr push bzr+ssh://guru3@bazaar.launchpad.net/~guru3/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:31 <z-man> for example
22:31 <z-man> bzr push bzr+ssh://guru3@bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:31 <z-man> if you want the whole team to be involved.
22:31 <z-man> and the -tag would be the name of your branch.
22:31 <z-man> where literally -tag would be perfectly fine :)
22:32 <z-man> No worries, you can rename it any time.
22:32 <guru3> well
22:32 <guru3> let's see how this turns out
22:32 <guru3> i just ran that command from inside the -work directory
22:33 <z-man> No problem.
22:33 <z-man> You had the -work directory patched?
22:33 <guru3> yes
22:33 <guru3> just diffed svn and applied it
22:34 <guru3> that's done
22:35 <z-man> did you already do "bzr commit"
22:35 <z-man> ?
22:35 <guru3> no
22:35 <guru3> should i?
22:35 <z-man> Then do that, and then "bzr push"
22:35 <z-man> There's your branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag
22:35 <guru3> AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
22:36 <guru3> it cmmits even with an empty commit message
22:36 <guru3> or maybe it doesn't
22:36 <z-man> What? My bzr refuses to.
22:36 <guru3> oh good
22:36 <guru3> it just does it in a non obvious way
22:37 <z-man> It does? Mine says EMPTY COMMIT MESSAGE, YOU N00B!
22:37 <guru3> says error
22:37 <guru3> not quite that obvious
22:38 <guru3> ive got a gGame.cpp.orig Oo
22:38 <z-man> Isn't that the result of rebeautification?
22:38 <z-man> Err, backup of rebeautification.
22:38 <guru3> oh, if you say so
22:39 <z-man> You should describe your branch here: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-tag/+edit
22:39 <z-man> Once your commit is done, of course.
22:40 <guru3> should i be worried how gGame.cpp.orig is under unknown in the commit message file?
22:40 <z-man> No, I just haven't gotten around to add it to .bzrignore.
22:40 <guru3> ok
22:40 <guru3> comitted
22:42 <z-man> "bzr push"
22:43 <z-man> a commit is, by default, only a local operation in your branch.
22:43 <guru3> okay
22:43 <guru3> this will take some getting used to i think
22:43 <z-man> Yeah, I constantly forget it, too.
22:43 <z-man> Once your branch is up on Launchpad, you can switch to work with checkouts, they behave like svn checkouts.
22:44 <z-man> I think you can transform your branch to a checkout with "bzr bind".
22:44 <z-man> got something.
22:44 <guru3> i'm ok with the branch
22:45 <z-man> Ah, you should also do `bzr whoami "REAL NAME <REAL MAIL ADDRESS>"
22:45 <z-man> currently, you're fcs <fcs@strawberry>
22:45 <guru3> yeah
22:46 <guru3> that's not so cool
22:46 <guru3> ran that
22:46 <guru3> anything else to do there?
22:46 <z-man> Edit the branch properties.
22:47 <z-man> Describe it a little.
22:47 <guru3> i did
22:47 <z-man> Ok, then you're done.
22:47 <z-man> Proudly post in the tag thread that we've got our first hack bzr branch :)
22:47 <guru3> is there anyway i can fix the fcs@strawberry thing?
22:48 <z-man> Yeah, you could redo everything.
22:48 * guru3 cries silently
22:48 <guru3> i guess that hostname and my real username are out then
22:48 <z-man> It's not so bad. I'm Mooos in some commits.
22:48 <guru3> that's not exactly a secret -_-
22:48 <z-man> With three o's?
22:48 <guru3> no
22:49 <guru3> i just would automatically have assumed typo
22:49 <guru3> or not even noticed
22:49 <guru3> tehre are too many os out there anyway
22:50 * z-man is still fighting with the OSX resolution thing
22:51 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
22:52 <guru3> i hope everyone likes the triumvirate logo
22:53 <guru3> :3
22:53 <z-man> OMG
22:54 <guru3> guess who's who
22:54 <guru3> :D
22:55 * z-man , you and Luci?
22:55 <guru3> is it obvious? are you sure?
22:55 <z-man> Dunno, the middle guy is the only one without special features
22:56 <z-man> Lucifer has his guitar
22:56 <z-man> and I suppose that dirt is supposed to be my hair :)
22:56 <guru3> actually beard
22:56 <guru3> as in the image of god being there with the beard :D
22:56 <z-man> ah
22:56 <guru3> if i was thinking straight i woulda put glasses on myself
23:11 * wrtlprnft wonders how hard shrinking holes would be
23:11 <guru3> i could maybe see growing ones...
23:11 <guru3> although shrinking ones would be more fun
23:12 <luke-jr> when do we get moving grid walls?
23:12 <wrtlprnft> well
23:12 <luke-jr> tbh, that's why I regret the implementation of maps ☺
23:13 <wrtlprnft> the walls that make up the holes are still there
23:13 <luke-jr> since clients load the map themselves instead of being described it by the server, we can't change things in it at game time
23:13 <wrtlprnft> the hole just tells the game to ignore them
23:14 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: otoh we avoid sending some huge heap of map data to each client at round start
23:14 <guru3> some things are meant to stay the same
23:14 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: true, but we lose the flexibility :/
23:14 <guru3> i think maps fall into that category
23:15 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: the engine isn't capable of handling moving walls anyways
23:15 <luke-jr> o
23:15 <wrtlprnft> cycles can't drive backwards
23:15 <guru3> and yet we do lag slides -_-
23:15 <wrtlprnft> or get pushed backwards
23:15 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ⁈
23:16 <epsy> kill it
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <luke-jr> moving walls != cycles
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <wrtlprnft> | ←
23:16 <luke-jr> though, wind would be interesting
23:16 <wrtlprnft> the | is the wall, the ← the cycle
23:16 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ok?
23:16 <wrtlprnft> if we didn't have rubber it wouldn't be that big of a problem
23:17 * wrtlprnft hopes luke-jr's client shows leading spaces
23:17 <luke-jr> and then instead of death zones to end the rounds, have the walls slowly move inward :o
23:17 <luke-jr> actually
23:17 <luke-jr> that would be fscking scary
23:17 * luke-jr hides
23:17 <wrtlprnft> what do you do to a cycle that moves in parallel to a wall that moves in its direction?
23:18 <luke-jr> ?
23:18 <guru3> luke-jr: have a zone the shape of the map and gradually shrink it, you leave the zone you die
23:18 <luke-jr> guru3: that's v2?
23:18 <guru3> just an idea
23:18 <luke-jr> guru3: sounds good
23:18 <luke-jr> especially if you can throw a texture on the zone and make it full height
23:19 <luke-jr> then it replaces the walls ;)
23:19 <epsy> * The die message:
23:19 <epsy> * lazy upgrader detected
23:20 <epsy> it's always nice being insulted by its own computer
23:21 <wrtlprnft> looks like you can't easily undo holes, though
23:21 <luke-jr> use the source, wrtlprnft!
23:22 <epsy> gn
23:22 <guru3> i still want to drive throuh an outer wall
23:22 <guru3> and pop up across the grid
23:23 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
23:23 <wrtlprnft> guru3: stop thinking pacman
23:24 <wrtlprnft> guru3: threedimensional maps would solve that problem
23:24 <guru3> i hadnt been
23:24 <guru3> but i am now
23:24 <wrtlprnft> make a torus map ;)
23:24 <guru3> -_-
23:24 <guru3> the problem with what i imagine
23:24 <guru3> wouldnt work on anything but an open map
23:25 <wrtlprnft> just make it big enough
23:25 <wrtlprnft> or make special zones that teleport cycles
23:26 <guru3> hmm
23:26 <guru3> i could sort of imagine that
23:26 <guru3> except for dealing with walls
23:27 <wrtlprnft> ?
23:27 <guru3> i have no idea how i'd terminate the current wall
23:27 <guru3> and start the enw one after teleportation
23:27 <guru3> other than do it how respawning does it
23:27 <wrtlprnft> the usual method is to kill the cycle and respawn it at the other end of the map
23:27 <guru3> just that destroys the walls
23:34 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7814 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/render/rScreen.cpp: Made resolution definition fixed size to avoid errors (there appeared to be one overwrite erorr on OSX already).
23:35 * luke-jr notes ph's original World plans had multiple maps interconnected through Edges
23:43 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: sounds reasonable, i was thinking about that, too
23:46 <guru3> i'd forgotten about that
23:50 <z-man> gCycle::DropWall does the trick..
23:51 <z-man> guru3: I pushed up a small fix, your timestep function had no return value.
23:52 <guru3> eh
23:52 <guru3> i was sure it did
23:53 <z-man> It's there, but it was not returned.
23:54 <guru3> ahh i see
23:54 * guru3 blames copy paste
View entire month
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
----
This is an LLM-free zone. In general, I am unwilling to use (fight with) any form of "GenAI" to write code for me. So, for the forseeable future, everything on this site will continue to be written by a very silly goose (wait that's me honk honk) with some parts written by other humans as well (silly hu-mon) rather than any plausible-series-of-words token-eating machine. Even my libraries are out of date, and suddenly that's a good thing!
(Although the style has changed several times and content has been added and changed, the base of this site has barely been updated since 2015. But it Ain't Broke!)
This site is also occasionally tested with older browsers, but compatibility is not guarenteed. Although, if you have an old obscure browser and something isn't working that previously did, I guess you can tell me (nelg) about it...
Gridder
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