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Log from 2008-01-28:
--- Day changed Mon Jan 28 2008
00:15 <spidey> probably
00:15 <spidey> i was
00:18 <flex> stupid question, you still banned from the "perm" ban?
00:18 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
00:19 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-214-219-145.client.mchsi.com] has left #armagetron []
00:23 <flex> I think their like 30days or something..
00:32 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-72-130-168-207.san.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:46 <spidey> flex, yes i am
00:46 <spidey> using a ssl proxy
00:48 <epsy> z-man, i don't know if you're gonna use it as i use it on my serv, but as long as you keep the what when where i'm fine with it :)
00:51 <spidey> epsy, english?
00:51 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
01:10 -!- flex [i=flex@host81-154-184-243.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["bye"]
01:13 <duudii> #sd Tripper
01:13 <armabot> duudii: Day Tripper Fortress: Players (1/16): Matt
01:46 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-143-220.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
01:49 -!- spidey [n=spidey@] has quit [K-lined]
01:55 <madmax> lol
02:00 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@adsl-69-149-116-113.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
02:00 -!- Lucifer [n=satan@adsl-69-149-116-113.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has left #armagetron ["Won't my momma be so proud of me!"]
02:10 <madmax> i guess spidey's sense didn't tingle
02:25 -!- madmax [n=madmax@unaffiliated/madmax] has quit ["leaving"]
02:54 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7672 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): /lock, /unlock, /invite and /uninvite team management chat for players of access level ACCESS_LEVEL_TEAM or better.
03:42 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-72-130-168-207.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
04:07 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-72-130-168-207.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:11 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871415.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
05:19 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-72-130-168-207.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
05:19 -!- TeH_OnE [n=TeH_OnE@c-24-2-45-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
05:19 <Stewie-arma> wtf?
05:20 <Stewie-arma> who is TeH_OnE?
05:20 <TeH_OnE> some random
05:21 <Stewie-arma> cause you joined most of the channels I'm in the instant right after I did...
05:22 <Stewie-arma> TeH_OnE infact you joined all of mine except one...
05:23 <TeH_OnE> happy?
05:23 <Stewie-arma> eh?
05:23 <Stewie-arma> you stalker...
05:29 -!- TeH_OnE is now known as fluffy
05:31 -!- fluffy is now known as yedips
05:37 <Stewie-arma> #weather 92037
05:37 <Stewie-arma> ...
05:37 <armabot> Stewie-arma: The current temperature in La Jolla Shores, La Jolla, California is 56.8°F (8:40 PM PST on January 27, 2008). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 51.8°F. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Rising).  Flash Flood Watch in effect through Monday morning...
05:38 <Stewie-arma> liars it isn't Overcast, it is freaking pouring...
05:44 <yedips> #weather 38256
05:44 <armabot> yedips: The current temperature in Paris, Tennessee is 27.7°F (10:49 PM CST on January 27, 2008). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 24.8°F. Pressure: 30.17 in 1021.6 hPa (Falling).
05:46 <yedips> brr
05:54 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-143-220.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
05:54 <Stewie-arma> hey spidey get back to bed!
06:00 <Stewie-arma> anyone know how to read mac panic reports?
06:05 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:35 <yedips> mac fails
06:38 <Stewie-arma> well I've gotten 10 kernel panics today, haven't had ANY before friday
06:38 <Stewie-arma> so I'm thinking my computer is just freaking old
06:38 <yedips> ...
06:39 <yedips> refer to above
06:39 <Stewie-arma> no
06:39 <Stewie-arma> I will not refert to above
06:39 <yedips> yes
06:39 <Stewie-arma> I've gone 4 years, no Kernel Panics, only about 3 errors total. I'm sticking with them
06:40 <yedips> so?
06:40 <Stewie-arma> and this is probably something minor, like my airport card is loose...
07:02 -!- fania [n=chatzill@] has joined #armagetron
07:03 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-72-130-168-207.san.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
07:05 -!- fania is now known as cHa
07:06 -!- cHa [n=chatzill@] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]"]
07:14 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@254.206-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
07:33 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@254.206-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
09:11 -!- epsy [n=epsy@] has joined #armagetron
09:50 -!- epsy [n=epsy@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871415.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:06 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7673 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/ (2 files in 2 dirs): MD5_PASSWORD_REMOVE -> USER_REMOVE
11:08 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7674 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/src/ (render/rFont.cpp ui/uMenu.cpp):
11:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Fixed yet another cursor position bug.
11:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Text menu items with COLOR_SHOW rendering mode switch to COLOR_USE when not selected.
11:20 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7675 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/ (config/settings_authentication.cfg language/english_base.txt): Documented chat commands.
11:24 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7676 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Actually made the code work like the docs say :)
11:45 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@p508717E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
12:02 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871415.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:16 -!- zmanuel is now known as z-man
12:30 <Sticky_> arma has passwords?
13:01 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7677 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Stopped abusing http error codes, rely on the message text instead.
13:01 <z-man> Sticky_: yes, it has ADMIN_PASS for ages.
13:02 <Sticky_> ahh not user pass
13:04 <z-man> no, that's new in the 0.2.8-auth branch.,
13:26 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508717E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:15 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-143-220.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
14:18 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-129-220-11.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
14:36  * luke-jr gets a SPARCstation 20
15:39 <Sticky_> how many cpus?
16:05 <luke-jr> …
16:05 <Sticky_> luke-jr: where do you live?
16:06 <luke-jr> ROL
16:07 <Sticky_> im going to print out 3 dots in size 100 font fly over there and cram them out your arse
16:07 <Sticky_> s/out/up
16:07 <Sticky_> bizzare typo
16:08 <luke-jr> …
16:10 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #armagetron
16:14 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508717E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
16:18 <flex> you're going to print out dots in font size 100 out of lukes arse?
16:22 <Sticky_> s/out/up
16:29 -!- tramshed [i=tramshed@im.catapultingfeces.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:38 <deja_vu_> O_o
16:39 -!- tramshed [i=tramshed@im.catapultingfeces.com] has joined #armagetron
16:39 <deja_vu_> someone tell me why deja_vu_ isn't registered anymore Oo
16:40 <Sticky_> apparently nickserv is a bit screwed atm
16:42 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
16:42 <deja_vu> well, at least ghosting works
16:43 <deja_vu> maybe they removed the aliases Oo
16:52 -!- flex0 [n=savas@host86-151-83-132.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
17:06 -!- libervisco [n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco] has joined #armagetron
17:09 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-129-220-11.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:40 <guru3> z-man: can you explain the params a bit?
17:40 <z-man> Sure.
17:40 <guru3> probably just nearly failed an exam
17:41 <guru3> need something i'm good at to do ;)
17:41 <z-man> You know the md5 method does a good md5 sum.
17:41 <z-man> heh, sorry to hear that
17:41 <guru3> minor details
17:41 <z-man> hope it's on the good side of nearly :)
17:41 <guru3> i do too :3
17:41 <z-man> ok, the md5 method really does md5( prefix . password . suffix ).
17:41 <z-man> and prefix and suffix are the params.
17:42 <z-man> So when the game server asks for ?query=params&method=md5
17:42 <guru3> the suffix in bmd5 being \0 ?
17:42 <z-man> Yeah, you can see it that way.
17:43 <z-man> The form you need to return the params is one per line, form of each line is "id value"
17:43 <z-man> so to get empty suffix and prefix explicitly, you'd just return
17:43 <z-man> prefix
17:43 <z-man> suffix
17:44 <z-man> to be digest compatible, which builds md5( username:domain:password ), you'd return
17:44 <z-man> prefix %u:domain:
17:44 <z-man> suffix
17:44 <z-man> (%u gets replaced by the username on the client).
17:44 <guru3> so when the server is creating the 'correctHash'
17:44 <z-man> But anyway, since the forum stores plain md5(password), it's fine if you just return nothing at all at ?query=params.
17:45 <guru3> it should do md5($prefix.$password.$suffix)
17:45 <z-man> right.
17:45 <z-man> after doing the %u -> $user replacement in prefix and suffix, of course.
17:46 <z-man> You have seen the crappy "reference implementation" in 0.2.8-auth?
17:46 <guru3> no
17:47 <z-man> Well, do so if things are unclear and I'm not around :)
17:47  * z-man is just teaching arma to shout "ZOMG HOLERZ!"
17:47 <guru3> i'm just trying to wrap my head around it
17:47 <guru3> the prefix:password:suffix would be the format the database is storing in
17:48 <z-man> Yep.
17:48 <guru3> do the : count as part of the prefix and suffix?
17:48 <z-man> Oh, sorry, no :
17:48 <z-man> it's just a plain concatenation
17:48 <z-man> md5 ( $prefix . $password . $suffix )
17:49 <guru3> well really
17:49 <z-man> the : are just in the prefix for the htdigest hash method.
17:49 <guru3> as long as the client knows that the database is doing that
17:49 <guru3> and so sends the right thing to the server which chekcs it against the authority
17:49 <z-man> you have to do nothing, right.
17:49 <guru3> just another config item
17:50 <z-man> exactly.
17:50 <guru3> and i need to get it using wildcards properly
17:50 <guru3> so that forums.authentication.armagetronad.net does something
17:51  * z-man knows nothing about that, sorry.
17:51 <guru3> yeah that would be all my problem -_-
17:53 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
17:53 <guru3> oh wow
17:54 <guru3> this is a bad time to find out i can't really get a wildcard -_-
17:56 <z-man> Heh, better today than later :)
17:56 <guru3> i get to manually add
17:57 <guru3> forums.armathentication.armagetronad.net
17:57 <guru3> this... is going to be interesting
17:59  * tramshed waits for server meltdown
18:01 <z-man> Oh, I just found out why people generally don't use auto-expanding arrays :)
18:01 <z-man> array[x]=array[x-1]....
18:01 <guru3> oh yeah
18:01 <guru3> is comma seperated ok?
18:01 <z-man> if array[x-1] only returns a reference, and the call to array[x] resizes the array, you're screwed.
18:01 <z-man> for the method list? yeah.
18:01 <guru3> implode(',', $validMethods)
18:01 <z-man> ah, nice function
18:05 <guru3> now\
18:05 <guru3> how to get mod_rewrite to fetch the new page without rewriting the whole url
18:09 <z-man> Oh god, this is a nightmare.
18:09 <z-man> It's a small miracle we don't have millions of unracable bugs.
18:09 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@128.192-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
18:12 <guru3> oy vey
18:12 <guru3> :S
18:12 <guru3> i guess we'll be doing symbolic linking
18:13 <z-man> what's that?
18:13 <guru3> no wild card
18:13 <guru3> and no mod rewrite rules that i can think of that work
18:13 <guru3> so we'll symbolic link every file from authentication.armagetronad.net to forums.authentication.armagetronad.net
18:13 <guru3> for the effect we want
18:13 <guru3> that is, to use forums. to determine what database to read from
18:15 <z-man> We can still use a different rule for the shortcuts, you know?
18:15 <z-man> like shortcut -> authentication.armagetronad.net/shortcut
18:15 <z-man> Of course, we won't be able to simply relay the service to thers by bending the dns entry.
18:15 <guru3> good point
18:16 <guru3> really though
18:16 <guru3> this will work
18:17 <guru3> now just to refactor some
18:22 <guru3> i hate writing theoretical code like this -_-
18:24 <guru3> z-man: the params
18:25 <guru3> param space value new line
18:25 <guru3> correct?
18:25 <z-man> correct.
18:25 <guru3> cause when human reading
18:25 <guru3> that's gonna be hard -_-
18:25 <z-man> You don't have to produce code that works for every possible authority.
18:26 <z-man> yeah, feel free to do something else and also change the server code :)
18:26  * z-man used "view page source" in the browser.
18:26 <guru3> header content-type should be ok as text/plain for us right?
18:28 <z-man> yep.
18:28  * z-man ignores the headers completely.
18:28 <guru3> can you explain the thing with /armaauth/0.1
18:28 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-143-220.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
18:29 <z-man> It's just arbitrary.
18:29 <z-man> the 0.1 is to be flexible with what we do in the future.
18:29 <z-man> maybe lucifer will change the interface to this SOAP thing.
18:29 <z-man> 0.1 is supposed to be the version of the server/authority protocol.
18:30 <guru3> ok
18:31 <guru3> i'm going to create another php file
18:31 <guru3> to map versions to methods
18:41 <armabot> armagetronad: guru3 * r7678 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/ (.htaccess armaauth.php config.php version.php): updates to auth server for latest specs from z-man
18:41 <z-man> whatever passes for specs around here :)
18:42 <guru3> glasses ;)
18:45 <guru3> already found a bug
18:45 <guru3> you can't have new lines in headers
18:47 <z-man> did you forget the space between "methods" and the method list?
18:48 <guru3> yes
18:48 <guru3> i did
18:48 <z-man> Umm, doesn't the property list count as the body?
18:48 <guru3> but stupid condlue($msg
18:48 <guru3> puts $msg in body and header
18:48 <guru3> i'm worked around that
18:48 <guru3> dealing with how
18:48 <guru3> your switch
18:48 <guru3> doesn't allow for a blank query
18:48 <guru3> which is what you have with just method set -_-
18:49 <z-man> when does that happen?
18:49 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?method=md5
18:49 <z-man> the server never sends that.
18:49 <z-man> the server always has a query field.
18:49 <guru3> well
18:50 <guru3> i missed that
18:50 <guru3> oops -_-
18:50 <guru3> i also added method versions
18:50 <guru3> query versions
18:50 <guru3> argh
18:50 <guru3> i'm getting back to front with those two
18:51 <z-man> good idea, probably.
18:51 <z-man> So the server should send query=...&versions=0.1 ?
18:51 <z-man> err, version=0.1
18:51 <guru3> that's your /armaauth/0.1?name=
18:52 <guru3> but version= would work too
18:52 <z-man> nah, let's keep it outside of the query, if the script can parse it from there.
18:52 <guru3> just citing the design documentation
18:53 <guru3> "move http://authentication.armagetronad.net/hashauth/md5 to http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth/0.1 "
18:53 <guru3> ;)
18:53 <guru3> version 0.1 implies method md5
18:54 -!- mkzelda [i=mkzelda@cpe-075-177-148-122.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
18:55 <z-man> Well, or bmd5.
18:55 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7679 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (11 files in 3 dirs): ZOMG HOLERZ! Added detection and scoring for tactical holes.
18:56 <guru3> it's one or the other
18:56 <guru3> you can't take both -_-
18:56 <guru3>  (not at the moment)
18:57 <z-man> Ah, because your script has to be hardcoded to the database column to use, and you can't change that on a per-method basis?
18:57 <armabot> armagetronad: guru3 * r7680 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/armaauth.php:
18:57 <armabot> armagetronad: I forgot a space. Oops.
18:57 <armabot> armagetronad: Also, new lines in headers = no no. Who'da thunk it.
18:57 <guru3> ok it works right now
18:58 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7681 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/batch/authentication_reference.php: also removing newlines from headers.
19:01 <z-man> Hmm, Ladle Fortress pretends my password is wrong.
19:01 <z-man> Wait, have you hardcoded the script to bmd5?
19:01 <guru3> no
19:01 <guru3> if no version is specificed
19:01 <guru3> it defaults to method
19:01 <guru3> with version 0.1 it locks into md5
19:02 <guru3> should it not do that?
19:06 <z-man> I don't care, as long as it gives you the list of supported methods with query=methods.
19:06 <z-man> Hmm, is there no test whether a user exists?
19:06 <guru3> well with the new structure
19:06 <guru3> that can be done
19:07 <guru3> 404: USER NOT FOUND
19:07 <z-man> That would be nice.
19:10 <luke-jr> nice for bruteforcers
19:10 <guru3> 501
19:10 <guru3> 409
19:11 <z-man> They can already get a user list from the forum page, luke :)
19:11 <luke-jr> z-man: for the forums, yes
19:12 <z-man> Besides, brute forcing our protocol really takes O(2^127) tries to get it right.
19:13 <z-man> O meaning on average here, obviously :)
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: guru3 * r7682 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/ (armaauth.php config.php version.php):
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: More HTTP response headers.
19:16 <luke-jr> harder if they can't determine a valid username
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: Better way of getting methods back.
19:16 <armabot> armagetronad: Root domain doesn't die improperly now.
19:17 <z-man> Those sites that have a secret user list can use the password not found response, sheesh.
19:17 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?query=methods&version=0.1
19:17 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?query=methods
19:17 <guru3> is that what you were looking for z-man ?
19:18 <guru3> it cross references version available methods with db available methods
19:19 <z-man> if the script really supports all three methods, then yes.
19:19 <guru3> well of course it supports all three
19:19 <guru3> but that's dependent on the database
19:19 <guru3> the forums database does support all 3
19:20 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?query=check&method=poo
19:20 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?query=check&method=sha1&version=0.1
19:20 <guru3> http://forums.authentication.armagetronad.net/armaauth.php?query=check&method=sha1
19:20 <z-man> Well, then, yes, it's fine.
19:22 <z-man> Now we just need to find out why the password check fails.
19:22 <z-man> Hmm, is the user name comparison case insensitive on purpose?
19:22 <guru3> that's mysql
19:22 <guru3> i think
19:23 <z-man> It's important because so far, usernames are taken as they come from the client.
19:23 <z-man> and if the password query is case insenstive, I could be Z-Man@forums or Z-MAN@forums whenver I like.
19:23 <flex0> TST 6 Sign up guys!
19:23 <flex0> come on it's fun
19:23 <flex0> http://xclan.armagetron.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=24
19:24 <guru3> select username from phpbb_users where username = 'tank program';
19:24 <guru3> returns Tank Program
19:24 <guru3> so it's insensitive
19:24 <guru3> do you want it to be sensitive?
19:24 <z-man> I don't care, we just have to define a standard.
19:24 <guru3> can we define case insensitive
19:25 <guru3> because otherwise
19:25 <guru3> it'll all fall apart
19:25 <guru3> mysql only does case sensnitive in binary tables
19:25 <z-man> Well, you could compare the username returned from the database :)
19:25 <guru3> which isn't what the forums used
19:25 <guru3> -_-
19:25 <guru3> w could
19:25 <guru3> *we could
19:25 <guru3> it feels massively like cheating
19:25 <guru3> but we could
19:26 <z-man> It's a question of how we want the names displayed, and what we expect of the systems parsing usernames.
19:26 <z-man> Two cases would make it simple:
19:26 <guru3> might want to ask that on the forums
19:26 <z-man> a) we declare that case in usernames is important, and leave usernames as they come in
19:27 <z-man> b) we declare case in usernames does not matter, and make them lowercase
19:27 <guru3> well iirc the ladder log
19:27 <guru3> uses TANK_PROGRAM
19:27 <z-man> or c) add a parameter to the method that tells us whether we should lowercase the name.
19:27 <guru3> for Tank Program
19:27 <guru3> thereby throwing sensitivity out the window
19:27 <z-man> not tank_program?
19:27 <guru3> either way it looses sensitivity
19:27 <z-man> yeah :)
19:28 <z-man> That's because so far, it uses the "username" name of the player, which has always been just the filtered screen name.
19:28 <z-man> now it is the full authentication name, if the player has one.
19:29 <z-man> I think we should go for c).
19:29 <guru3> i just thought of something
19:29 <guru3> isn't there some guy on the forums
19:29 <guru3> whose name is like 0xff something?
19:30 <guru3> wouldn't that... be bad?
19:30 <luke-jr> z-man: or the server can, upon successful auth, return a unique name
19:30 <luke-jr> and if the '@server' doesn't match up, either double-auth with the new server, or error
19:30 <z-man> 0x is escaped :)
19:31 <z-man> it gets transformed to 0\x.
19:31 <guru3> ok
19:31 <z-man> luke-jr: server names are already converted to lowercase.
19:31 <luke-jr> I'm not referring to server names ☺
19:32 <luke-jr> game: does hash X authenticate LUKE@DASHJR.ORG?
19:32 <z-man> ah, ok, well, that would be a possibilty.
19:32 <luke-jr> auth: yes, I call him luke@dashjr.org
19:32 <z-man> Oh, bad.
19:32 <z-man> only "I call him luke"
19:32 <z-man> otherwise
19:32 -!- z-man is now known as badmintron
19:33 <luke-jr> game: does hash X authenticate TANK program@forums.armagetronad.net ?
19:33 <badmintron> game: do you know about bla@blubb.com?
19:33 <luke-jr> auth: yes, I know him as Tank Program@armagetronad.net
19:33  * badmintron : yeah, I call him Z-Man@forums. Lolz.
19:33 -!- badmintron is now known as z-man
19:33 <luke-jr> game: ok, armagetronad.net… does hash X authenticate Tank Program@armagetronad.net ?
19:33 <luke-jr> auth2: yes, I know him as Tank Program@armagetronad.net
19:34 <luke-jr> or we can just complain if the domain is a mismatch ☺
19:34 <luke-jr> and have another message:
19:34 <luke-jr> game: does hash X authenticate TANK program@forums.armagetronad.net ?
19:34 <luke-jr> auth: Well, that's Tank Program@armagetronad.net-- ask him
19:35 <z-man> Hmm, that would work, but what's the benefit over just returning the true username?
19:36 <luke-jr> to force a comparison with domain
19:36 <luke-jr> so a wildcard subdomain can't be abused as easily
19:36 <luke-jr> and the other use case for redirections ☺
19:36 <z-man> Doesn't the domain name get passed into the script?
19:36 <luke-jr> so I can configure my forum account to redirect to luke@dashjr.org
19:36 <z-man> use case for redirections? :)
19:36 <luke-jr> z-man: $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST'], yes
19:37 <luke-jr> but if someone makes a dumb PHP script, they could forget to check it
19:37 <luke-jr> if the server is required to return its own domain, that wouldn't be as easy to mess up
19:39 <z-man> But they'd notice immediately and fix it (provided we give meaningful errors, which we will do for all those who seriously want to implement an authority).
19:40 <luke-jr> ?
19:40 <luke-jr> I'm assuming a good auth server ☺
19:42 <luke-jr> eg, ed forgets to check on @Crazy-Tronners.Net
19:42 <luke-jr> and P4 notices mysql.crazy-tronners.net is the same vhost
19:42 <luke-jr> if C-T.N returns P4@C-T.N, he can't use P4@mysql.C-T.N
19:43 <z-man> Ah, ok :)
19:43 <z-man> Then let's do it that way.
19:44 <z-man> Let's just append the full username to the PASSWORD_OK answer.
19:44 <luke-jr> ok
19:44 <luke-jr> and a redirector would be nice too :þ
19:49  * epsy imagines a teleporter room server
19:49 <luke-jr> O.o?
19:50 <z-man> With a redirection, would the user then appear as the redirected user or the original?
19:50 <epsy> there, the gold zone leads you to café, plop you enter in, you get move'd_TO fort café :P
19:50 <z-man> because if it's supposed to be the original, you'd need to pass that in correct spelling, too :)
19:51 <luke-jr> as the redirected
19:51 <luke-jr> well
19:51 <luke-jr> if Luke-Jr@forums redirects to luke@dashjr.org, the actual username is luke@dashjr.org
19:52 <luke-jr> epsy: do it
19:52 <luke-jr> that could be a master server replacement XD
19:52 <epsy> idk, we might want to have hostmask masking, like in irc
19:52 <epsy> hrhr
19:53 <z-man> then what's the point of the redirection? why don't you just log in as luke@dashjr.org?
19:54 <luke-jr> z-man: lazy
19:54 <luke-jr> XD
19:54 <luke-jr> z-man: also, maybe to get around whitelists
19:55 <luke-jr> eg, if they don't trust dashjr.org because they want unique users
19:55 <luke-jr> @forums will only redirect to one @dashjr.org acct, so it's safe as any @forums
19:55 <luke-jr> so I could login anywhere that only allows forum users
19:55 <luke-jr> while keeping my identity
20:04 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7683 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (Makefile.manual batch/make/beautify config/astylerc): Disabling astyle for now. More trouble than it is worth with its changed default behavior.
20:15 <z-man> Tank: your password hash comparison should be case insensitive :)
20:24 <guru3> ah
20:26 <guru3> try it now
20:31  * luke-jr notes it would probably be more efficient to transform the hex hash into binary before comparing
20:31 <luke-jr> instead of vice-versa
20:43 <wrtlprnft> wtg z-man 
20:43 <wrtlprnft> SCORE_HOLE… great!
20:44 <luke-jr> O.o
20:44 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
20:44 <wrtlprnft> what about PUNISHMENT_HOLER_CRIERS?
20:45 <z-man> I think SCORE_HOLE 10000 would be enough :)
20:45 <z-man> I was also thinking about a mode where you can only score by holing :)
20:46 <wrtlprnft> o_O
20:46 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:46 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
20:46  * wrtlprnft goes and tries to figure out how exactly that setting works
20:46 <wrtlprnft> the NEWS looks great, though
20:47 <epsy> wrtlprnft, ah there you are, hi
20:47 <z-man> guru3: works, thanks!
20:47  * z-man tests bmd5, too
20:47 <epsy> wrtlprnft, i'm going to ask, can you promote the new TST in café ? :)
20:48 <wrtlprnft> tell me the exact message, maybe?
20:48 <wrtlprnft> i'm terrible at designing such things
20:48 <epsy> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18204
20:48 <epsy> transform it as you like
20:49 -!- yedips [n=TeH_OnE@c-24-2-45-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:50 <z-man> guru3: bmd5 works, too.
20:51 -!- TeH_OnE [n=TeH_OnE@adsl-065-006-218-226.sip.mem.bellsouth.net] has joined #armagetron
20:51 <TeH_OnE> yay
20:51 -!- TeH_OnE is now known as spidey
20:51 <spidey> freenode removed my kiline :D
20:52 <epsy> xfroggy, you there?
20:52 <luke-jr> spidey: why
20:53 <spidey> luke-jr, dunno
20:53 <spidey> i sent a email
20:53 <luke-jr> …
20:53 <spidey> someone replied with "i can't see any klines under that ip"
20:53 <spidey> i tried to connect and it worked
20:53 <luke-jr> lol
20:53 <luke-jr> which means 1 of 2 things
20:53 <luke-jr> 1. it was a temp kline
20:53 <luke-jr> 2. he wasn't supposed to unkline you
20:53 <spidey> heh
20:54 <wrtlprnft> epsy: that's gotta be the worst designed ad, ever
20:54 <wrtlprnft> (the one i came up with, that is)
20:54 <epsy> lol
20:55 <wrtlprnft> by the way, have you guys decided on whether to allow shuffling up or not yet?
20:55  * epsy votes yes?
20:56  * wrtlprnft doesn't even know if the shuffling toggling thing still works
20:56 <spidey> oh
20:56 <epsy> i think it never did
20:56 <spidey> i went and took a test to see how stupid i was, at the GED place
20:56 <wrtlprnft> so, is it enabled or disabled?
20:57 <spidey> my scores where so high i'm starting at level 5, they said noone's ever started at level 5 :D
20:57 <epsy> enabled
20:57 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:58 <epsy> (ty from fofo btw :P)
20:58 <wrtlprnft> should work now
20:58 <wrtlprnft> stupid me
20:58 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@128.192-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
20:58  * epsy is 75% sure that the bug was something related to global vars
21:00 <wrtlprnft> z-man: traitor!
21:00 <wrtlprnft> $player_lose_hole
21:00 <wrtlprnft> negative SCORE_HOLE should be unsupported
21:00 <z-man> heh, just in case :)
21:01 <epsy> why?
21:01 <epsy> i mean, loosing one point for holing then getting the win is just acceptable
21:01 <wrtlprnft> epsy: in fact it was my editor's setup's stupidity
21:01 <epsy> now if you come in a hole and get out thru the same one...
21:01 -!- madmax [n=madmax@unaffiliated/madmax] has joined #armagetron
21:01 <epsy> damned 25% :P
21:02 <z-man> still only gets scored once.
21:02 <epsy> once per hole per player ? or once per hole?
21:02 <z-man> per cycle.
21:02 <wrtlprnft> there used to be a time where i was really too lazy to type c++ keywords
21:02 <z-man> since the cycle dies, that also mostly means once per player.
21:03 <epsy> so you you go trough 14 holes you only get one time score_hole?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> so i had macros that replaced vd by void, de by double, sh by switch, etc…
21:03 <wrtlprnft> i didn't know anything but c++ back then
21:03 <z-man> ah, no, the player who made the hole gets the points.
21:03 <z-man> and only once.
21:03 <epsy> oh, lol
21:03 <wrtlprnft> that's why i didn't care about /bin/sh being replaced by /bin/switch and foo.de by foo.double
21:03 <wrtlprnft> some vimrcs still have that “feature” x_X
21:04 <epsy> hrhr
21:04 <flex0> hwhw
21:04 <wrtlprnft> z-man: so if two people move through the same hole you only get it once, too?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> that's what i read from the code
21:04  * epsy assumes post_text is the post's text in phpbb
21:04 <z-man> wrtlprnft: yes.
21:04 <luke-jr> z-man: how is a hole different from a death?
21:04 <wrtlprnft> i guess i'll update café
21:05 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: someone from your team goes through it
21:05 <z-man> and it needs to be a hole in an enemy wall.
21:05 <luke-jr> so you only get ₧ if someone goes thru?
21:05 <z-man> yes, otherwise you'd be right :)
21:05 <luke-jr> ah
21:06  * wrtlprnft still doesn't get the point behind FORTRESS_HELD_SCORE
21:06 <wrtlprnft> seems to do pretty much the same thing as FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE and SCORE_WIN put together
21:06 <epsy> i guess it's about giving a different score to teams that win by conquer and those who win by defending
21:07 <wrtlprnft> at least with two teams and two fortresses
21:07 <wrtlprnft> epsy: that's already happening on café ;)
21:07 <epsy> wrtlprnft, you dont want to have negative conquer scores do you?
21:07 <wrtlprnft> no.
21:08 <epsy> so there's the only point i see in it :P
21:08 <wrtlprnft> isn't f_h_s added to one team's score after they conquered the enemy zone AND held their own?
21:09 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7684 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/src/network/nKrawall.cpp: Sendig hashes with lowercase hexcodes; php generates them that way by default.
21:10 <luke-jr> z-man: lame
21:10 <luke-jr> send them with half upper and half lower
21:10 <z-man> you mean, whe should mix cases randomly
21:10 <luke-jr> force people to write good code
21:10 <z-man>  :)
21:10 <wrtlprnft> err, http://de2.php.net/manual/en/function.strtoupper.php ?
21:11 <z-man> wrtlprnft: two points on f_h_s:
21:12 <z-man> 1. maybe each team starts with many zones, then you can reward holding many of them.
21:12 <wrtlprnft> oh, so it multiplies? sweet
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i can see ed using that
21:12 <wrtlprnft> for chico type maps, as long as it doesn't print one message per zone
21:12 <z-man> 2. timing :) f_h_s is applied two seconds after round end, so you can give different scores for the case when two zones are konquered almost at the same time.
21:13 <z-man> Err, of course it does print one message per zone :/
21:13 <wrtlprnft> hmm, that's sort of bad
21:13 <wrtlprnft> imagine one of those 50-zones-per-team maps
21:13  * epsy remembers a game which prevented displaying the same message on hud twice
21:14 <z-man> bah, that's for wusses.
21:14 <luke-jr> 0.1 score
21:14 <wrtlprnft> epsy: you can do that on the client side
21:14 <epsy> yes i guess
21:14 <wrtlprnft> sort of a server spam protection ;)
21:14 <epsy> but deleting hud messages from server is ... trivky :P
21:14 <epsy> *c
21:14 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:15 <wrtlprnft> keep a buffer of the last couple of messages
21:15 <epsy> imagine
21:15 <wrtlprnft> if you get a duplicate, just delete the original one and maybe indicate that it appeared twice
21:15 <luke-jr> if the player thinks the server is spamming, they can leave
21:15 <epsy> Team A conquer's team B's base and gets 2 points
21:16 <epsy> then Team A conquer's team B's base and gets 2 points
21:16 <wrtlprnft> so?
21:16 <epsy> if it was poissible to litterally merge them, after sending them to clients, so it shows
21:16 <epsy> Team A conquerred 2 of Team B's bases and got 4 points
21:17 <epsy> but that's sort of, complicated i guess
21:17 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that has to be done on the server side for that one particular message
21:17 <epsy> yes, and then you need to tell client message X changed etc
21:17 <wrtlprnft> no.
21:18 <wrtlprnft> they're all given out at the same time anyays
21:18 <epsy> imagine a one second time elapsement between these 2 messages :)
21:18 <wrtlprnft> there isn't.
21:19 -!- flex0 [n=savas@host86-151-83-132.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:19 <wrtlprnft> either you held the fortress or you didn't
21:19 <epsy> ?
21:19 <epsy> or
21:19 <epsy> *oh
21:19  * epsy was thinking on a more general purpose
21:19 <wrtlprnft> you can't generalize that, of course
21:19 <wrtlprnft> currently looking for a way to do that
21:20 <epsy> do messages have an universal ID between client and server?
21:20 <wrtlprnft> they have the ID of the nMessage that was used to send them
21:20 <epsy> or if the hud messages were created on the client side
21:21 <epsy> we would
21:21 <wrtlprnft> i don't think it's saved anywhere, though
21:21 <epsy> 1/ reduce some little amount of latency
21:21 <epsy> 2/ the client might have more of a clue about these
21:22 <epsy> but, doing that, we sacrifice server-custom messages
21:22 <epsy> or more latency at connection
21:22 <wrtlprnft> i'm still wondering about the potential use
21:22 <wrtlprnft> how often do you get the same message multiple times?
21:23 <epsy> just enter a sumo server
21:23 <epsy> A conqered B's base
21:23 <epsy> C conqered B's base
21:23 <epsy> D conqered B's base
21:23 <wrtlprnft> that's 3 times with different names
21:23 <epsy> yes, what about making it looks like
21:23 <wrtlprnft> A, C, D each got 20 points for conquering B's base
21:24 <epsy> A,C and D conquered B's base and got n points each
21:24 <epsy> or like what you suggested, right
21:24 <luke-jr> i18n
21:24 <wrtlprnft> those messages get created at the same time, too
21:25 <epsy> ok, one other example :D
21:25 <wrtlprnft> in fact those should be pretty easy to put into one if you figure out how to internationalize it
21:25 <wrtlprnft> because they're all generated in the same loop
21:25 <epsy> A core dumped B for 2 points
21:25 <epsy> A core dumped E for 2 points
21:25 <epsy> A core dumped F for 2 points
21:25 <epsy> A: woo i got many points, let's call it a triple frag
21:25 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508717E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:26 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508717E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
21:26 <luke-jr> epsy: then you need to go back and rewrite an older msg :þ
21:26 <wrtlprnft> that sounds complicated all right
21:26 <luke-jr> and reset its newness
21:26 <epsy> yes that's why i call it complicated :P
21:26 <wrtlprnft> have fun implementing that
21:26 <epsy> hrhr
21:26 <wrtlprnft> z-man: merging those f_h_s messages looks quite dirty :-(
21:27 <wrtlprnft> gotta move the entire logic somewhere else
21:27 <z-man> Nah, we have full control over the calling code.
21:28 <wrtlprnft> i know, it's in gGame
21:29 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:30 <z-man> We could make things general and let the AddScore functions merge identical messages.
21:30 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
21:30 <wrtlprnft> that's an idea
21:31 <wrtlprnft> but how does AddScore know if there's more messages to come?
21:31 <z-man> It doesn't, but once per frame or second there could be a FlushMessages() call.
21:31 <epsy> most of the languages uses for enumerations such a following sheme, right ? « AserparatorBseparatorClastseparatorD » ?
21:33 <wrtlprnft> sounds sane.
21:35 <wrtlprnft> is it safe to change a tOutput's identifier later on?
21:36 <z-man> Hmm, if you pass it as a safe type.
21:36 <wrtlprnft> safe type?
21:36 <z-man> Unfortunately, tOutputs themselves are not so well copyable.
21:36 <z-man> yeah, tString or something.
21:39 <wrtlprnft> so you could append _multiple or something if there's more than one message
21:39 <z-man> yep.
21:40 <wrtlprnft> why does that function actually get a full tOutput as parameter?
21:40 <wrtlprnft> shouldn't a string containing the identifier be enough?
21:42 -!- madmax [n=madmax@unaffiliated/madmax] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
21:42 <wrtlprnft> nvm, i see it now
21:42 <wrtlprnft> player_win_frag et al.
21:46 <wrtlprnft> is that another vc6 bug?
21:46 <wrtlprnft> tOutput& operator << (tOutput &o, char *locale)
21:46 <wrtlprnft> { return operator<<(o, static_cast<const char *>(locale));
21:46 <wrtlprnft> }
21:46 <wrtlprnft> tOutput& operator << (tOutput &o, const char *locale){
21:46 <wrtlprnft> the first one shouldn't be necessary, or did i miss something?
21:50 -!- ct|kyl1 [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
21:54 <z-man> you missed nothing, and yes, I bet it's because of vc6
21:54 <z-man> or because of some braindead other object that has a char * operator conversion :)
21:55 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
21:55 <z-man> I guess you'd need to find the correct tOutputItemLocale and bend around its tLocaleItem pointer.
21:55 -!- ct|kyl1 is now known as ct|kyle
21:59 <z-man> Or, hah:
21:59 <z-man> pass in an empty tOutput item :)
22:00 <z-man> and the identifier strings
22:00 <z-man> and set the extra template parameter on the output item.
22:02 <z-man> tOutputs are safe to be copied and kept around, it seems.
22:05 <z-man> You just have to be careful with the template parameters: they need to be set before they're used.
22:05 <wrtlprnft> maybe the safest way is to just add a second version that gets 4 tOutputs?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> if i need to modify the parameters anyways
22:06 <z-man> Yeah, that would work, too.
22:06 <wrtlprnft> although it would make the calling code sort of bulky, it could decide whether it wants it messages to concatenated
22:07 <z-man> There are not too many messages where concatenation makes sense, anyway.
22:10 <wrtlprnft> at least not immediate concagenation
22:11 <wrtlprnft> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE would be a candidate for late concatenation
22:15 <wrtlprnft> ePlayerNetID::AddScore and eTeam::AddScore do almost the same thing…
22:19 <z-man> Yeah, feel free to factor it out into a common base class :)
22:19 <z-man> eThingWithScore or something.
22:20 <z-man> Or have it delegate to a template function, whatever works.
22:20 <guru3> eThingWithScore
22:20 <guru3> i like that name
22:22 <wrtlprnft> sounds like something i won't do today
22:22 <wrtlprnft> good night
22:22 <guru3> good night
22:23 <z-man> night.
22:24 <guru3> z-man: right now the hash comparison is now using a binary safe method called strcasecmp
22:25 <z-man> good
22:25 <guru3> should i keep with that or convert the case of both?
22:25 <z-man> Would there be a difference?
22:25 <z-man> performance or design wise?
22:25 <guru3> don't think so really
22:25  * z-man sees none.
22:26  * z-man declares "Whatever works." the official Armagetron Advanced motto.
22:26 <guru3> goes well with "we'll see how it goes"
22:26 <armabot> armagetronad: guru3 * r7685 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/armaauth.php: Case insensitive comparision of hashes. Mmmmm. Hash.
22:38 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["leaving"]
22:54 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
22:57 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7686 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/ (6 files):
22:57 <armabot> armagetronad: Hole score management is now done with an extra redirection: hole->explosion->cycle.
22:57 <armabot> armagetronad: hat way, in case a cycle can produce multiple explosions (not the case
22:57 <armabot> armagetronad: with respawning, there it is a new cycle every spawn), the player can
22:57 <armabot> armagetronad: get multiple scores for holes.
23:14 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7687 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gExplosion.cpp: Fixed small wall stumps that would sometimes get left behind.
23:19  * z-man loves chasing those weird little bugs
23:19 <guru3> the poor stumps :<
23:19 <guru3> left all alone
23:19 <z-man> yeah, somebody had to care for them.
23:20 <z-man> I dimly remember making the change that caused the bug had a reason.
23:20 <z-man> Should probably look it up in the logs.
23:23 <z-man> In retrospect, I probably can't say how grateful I am that luke merged the complete histry of the project into our current SVN repository.
23:24 <z-man> False alarm. The code line was unchanged since it was introduced.
23:26 <luke-jr> ..
23:26 <xfroggy> ...
23:26 <guru3> ......
23:37 <z-man> Oh, I've got a reason to make user name comparisons case sensitive :/
23:38 <z-man> In the prefix/suffix %u username replacement, the username is of course taken as the client has it.
23:38 <z-man> In the server database, it will have been taken like the user gave it there.
23:39 <guru3> oh hrmm
23:39 <guru3> damn
23:39 <guru3> indeed
23:39 <z-man> Then again, of course, we still can keep that an implementation detail the authority has to worry about.
23:39 <guru3> -_-
23:40 <z-man> As long as we follow Luke's suggestion to return the true username back when password_ok is returned.
23:40 <z-man> An authority where the comparison has to be made case sensitive one way or the other can then return UNKNOWN_USER on failure, while...
23:41 <z-man> an authority where the comparison does not need to be case sensitive can accept different spellings and return the variant that was in the database.

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