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Log from 2007-06-04:
--- Day changed Mon Jun 04 2007
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> so, thinking about it, I'm not sure the groundwork is there to try plugging in another network library yet
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> the server is pretty thin because I've focused on the protocol, so it doesn't even match up connections with players yet
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> that's next on my list, after filling out error-checking
00:01 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: why not install to the standard Python lib dirs?
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> because those are a pain to clean
00:01 <_Sticky_> thank you very much to z-man for admining, hope the compaining wasnt too much
00:01 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"]
00:01 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #armagetron
00:02 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: is the dependency ok if it works with the instructions you gave akira?
00:02 <luke-jr_> I have my 'svn up' in your dir pulling in pyxmpp automatically ;)
00:02 -!- Durka is now known as Durka-away
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> well, the distribution in *windows* is going to ultimately be built with py2exe
00:02 <Lucifer_arma> so the dependency is going to be a problem for people not on windows
00:03 <luke-jr_> only if their distro sucks?
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> heh
00:03 <luke-jr_> and you/we don't include it
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> I'd really prefer it be something that can be included in the source release so there's no dependency
00:03 <luke-jr_> it could be
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> see, I want the server to have only python as it's dependency and nothing else
00:03 <luke-jr_> but that'd annoy me if I were installing it :p
00:04 <_Sticky_> whats the dep? py2exe?
00:04 <luke-jr_> better to include the pyxmpp lib in the source than to write pyxmpp from scratch in a non-compatible way
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> I want the ais to have only python as a dependency (the current plan is for them to be implemented as clients and to take turns like humans)
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> I want the client I write for players to have only python and pyqt as dependencies
00:05 <luke-jr_> then include pyxmpp in the source releases
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> I'm willing to bend that rule only if sound is needed and pyqt doesn't provide enough for that
00:05 <luke-jr_> I don't like sound in civ anyway
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> also, I might be willing to bend that rule later on as needs show it to be bad
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> what I'm really trying to avoid *right now* is the more common problem of starting a new project and laying on a bunch of dependencies :)
00:06 <luke-jr_> so you'd prefer to rewrite those would-be dependencies?
00:06 <Lucifer_arma> depends on what it is :)
00:07 <luke-jr_> networking :p
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not going to pretend I know everything there is to know about xmpp, but I did look into python xmpp libraries a few months ago and ruled them all out of any useful application
00:07 <luke-jr_> http://pyxmpp.jajcus.net/
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> so if you really think I should be using it, you'll have to give me the code :)
00:07 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, I've got a network layer now that should work, and there's no xmpp library that will remove the additional work that's still needed on it
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> because the core protocol is constructed
00:08 <luke-jr_> it provides virtually any networking elements you should need, in a standards-compliant way :p
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> only we have the basics we need now, that's what we were testing :)
00:09 <luke-jr_> and wasn't working
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> eh?  what didn't work?
00:09 <luke-jr_> hm, I suppose libxml2 isn't acceptable as a dep either?
00:09 <luke-jr_> GodTodd:
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> the traceback spam you got when I killed the server was lack of error-checking that would need to be done anyway with any third-party library
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd's problem is in the qt code specifically
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> it's a problem with the signal/slot mechanism that propogates already-decoded and parsed network messages to the gui
00:10 <Lucifer_arma> libxml2 isn't needed as a dep, core python has a good enough dom-compliant xml parser
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> basically, godtodd's problem is that I'm emitting a python object in a signal, and the slot receives a float
00:11 <Lucifer_arma> we're probably seeing a pyqt bug
00:12 -!- Durka-away is now known as Durka
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> there is one thiing planned for the network that a third-party library could give us, which is file transfer
00:15 <luke-jr_> xmpppy seems to use simplexml
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> man, core python does a wonderful job parsing xml
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> you have minidom, and then you have a sax api
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> I'm really getting into minidom right now, since i used it for acme
00:16 <luke-jr_> simplexml is sax?
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> beats me, never heard of it before.  But the sax parser you get by default with python uses expat
00:17 <luke-jr_>   - if you don't like python installator - just copy xmpp directory into python's
00:17 <luke-jr_>     site-packages directory (this is what setup.py does).
00:17 <luke-jr_>   - If you have no intention to install library system-wide (or just have no
00:17 <luke-jr_>     privileges to do it) you can copy xmpp directory just in your application's
00:17 <luke-jr_>     directory. Example:
00:17 <luke-jr_> ah, simplexml is part of xmpppy
00:17 <luke-jr_> uses xml.parsers.expat
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> ah
00:18 <luke-jr_> however, it is GPL
00:18 <Lucifer_arma> we do need to be able to send arbitrarily complex xml data, if xml is what the messages get encoded to (they don't right now, they use a smtp-like encoding)
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I need to go document what I've done so far
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> you'll be able to get a better idea how to plug in a third-party library when I've documented what's there now :)
00:20 <Lucifer_arma> (and maybe an understanding why the network layer is on it's third revision already)
00:24 <luke-jr_> hrm
00:24 <luke-jr_> does Python lack DNS? :p
00:26 <luke-jr_> oh well, at least that's an optional requirement
00:26 <luke-jr_> well
00:26 <luke-jr_> sortof
00:26 <luke-jr_> required for spec compliance, but not for most real-world cases
00:27 <luke-jr_> boo
00:27 <luke-jr_> while True:
00:27 <luke-jr_>     time.sleep(0.2)
00:27 <luke-jr_> that's stupid
00:28 -!- Durka [n=Durka@cpe-76-167-238-228.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> haha
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> I see you've found the main game loop
00:32 <Lucifer_arma> replace time.sleep() with pass and watch your cpu usage skyrocket
00:33 <Lucifer_arma> I think an app that kicks on my fans has to have a damn good reason, and looping endlessly isn't a good reason
00:35 <luke-jr_> who said looping endlessly?
00:35 <luke-jr_> I think a thread that does nothing is stupid
00:35 <luke-jr_> whether looping endlessly or looping over a sleep
00:36 <luke-jr_> unixserver.serve_forever()
00:36 <luke-jr_> that's how my server's main thread ends
00:36 <luke-jr_> "ends"
00:40 <_Sticky_> .tea
00:40 <crazy-tronner> _Sticky_: Fortress Café: Players (14/32): åppåqitiøn, bam, Ðúrkå	CuRbSidE, G5, Lackadaisical, madmax, MaZuffeR, NEUROMANCER, pinky, Rogue, Shazam, Zop, ~*k3nNy*~, ~*SP*~ Omega
00:41 <_Sticky_> .lastseen Rico
00:41 <crazy-tronner> _Sticky_: ¦×¥Rico has last been seen on Z-Man's Tournament Fortress, Tornament going on. 59 minutes ago.
00:47 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: don't like exceptions?
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> ah, you're making assumptions that aren't true
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> the reason it's looping endlessly is because that's the main game loop, and nothing has been written that's actual game logic yet
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> that loop won't be endless, and will do a lot of work
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> the time.sleep() call is just a placeholder
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> and I only like exceptions for fatal errors
00:49 <luke-jr_> aha
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> if the error is non-fatal, I prefer to use return values to propogate errors
00:50 <luke-jr_>         print "ConnectionManager::RunLoopBack not implemented"
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> I'll use exceptions when I need the non-fatal error propogated up several layers
00:50 <luke-jr_>                 raise NotImplementedError
00:50 <_Sticky_> .tea
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> ah, those not being implemented aren't fatal errors :)
00:50 <crazy-tronner> _Sticky_: Fortress Café: Players (15/32): åopåritiøm, bam, Ðûqkå, G5, Lackadaisical, madmax, MaZuffeR, pinky, Rogue, Shazam, Zop, ~*SP*~ Omega, ~*SP*~oO.k3nNy, °¯AshitakA, °°Lanta
00:50 <luke-jr_> no?
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, some of them are fatal errors if not implemented and need to raise the appropriate exception, they just don't
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> I said error-checking was thin :)
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> I think I just documented the network layer pretty well, but I could be wrong
00:51 <luke-jr_> ok
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> http://eugenics.davefancella.com/index.php/Network_Protocol
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> I even pointed out the piece of groundwork on the server that's missing in order to plug in any arbitrary third-party library
00:52 <luke-jr_> ...
00:52 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_, ...
00:52 <luke-jr_> that's protocol?
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> as much as is needed.  The whole point of the nMessageBase objects is that they abstract the actual encoding so that higher level layers don't need it
00:52 <luke-jr_> but I don't see any actual API docs
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> and there are only three message types right now
00:52 <luke-jr_> eg, what objects and functions I need to implement
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> you'll have to go to code for that, because api docs aren't written yet
00:53 <luke-jr_> code doesn't say what's private or public
00:53 <luke-jr_> in Python
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's mostly obvious right now, but before I move on to the rest of the game, I intend to go in and provide api docs
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> there's a convention I follow that's very common in python code
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> if a method starts with _, it's considered a friend relationship
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> some classes will call it publicly, but it should be considered private except for special cases
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> if it starts with __, it's private
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> if it starts with a capital letter, it's public
00:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you'll find this convention very common in third-party python code, if not in the python standard library
00:54 <luke-jr_> I don't see anything with a capital letter
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> I prefer to use accessors for instance members, so anything that's not a method should be considered off-limits unless you created it
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> (like the server does with nSocket.isKnown)
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> right now, if it says Not IMplemented yet, that's expected to be in a subclass, but won't always be true
00:56 <luke-jr_> why don't you use Python's server classes?
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> look at the docs for them
00:57 <luke-jr_> ... done a while ago
00:57 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_, ...
00:57 <luke-jr_> they work fairly well from my own use
00:57 <Lucifer_arma> they do, but they're fairly limited
00:57 <luke-jr_> you're supposed to subclass them
00:58 <luke-jr_> well
00:58 <luke-jr_> not the server itself
00:58 <luke-jr_> that doesn't need subclassing
00:58 <luke-jr_> but the handlers, of course
00:58 <Lucifer_arma> the amount of work required to get it to do something useful is about the same as was required for me to do what I'e done
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> the difference being that what I've got now is customized for the application
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> where I'd still have to customize for the application
00:59 <luke-jr_> it takes care of accepting connections
00:59 <Lucifer_arma> I've used the server classes before and found nothing but headache
00:59 <luke-jr_> unixserver = SocketServer.ThreadingUnixStreamServer(socketfile, ReqHandler)
00:59 <luke-jr_> that was the most I had to do to make a server with it
01:00 <luke-jr_> obviously after defining my handler
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've had nothing but headache, so I went this route
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm happy with it :)
01:00 <luke-jr_> is chunk.py used? O.o
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> and this is all the patience I have for discussing decisions already made
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> yes, chunk.py is used
01:01 <luke-jr_> hm, I just deleted it and ran the server with no complaints
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> that's wehre chunk.encode and chunk.decode are, used by nSocket to do what they do
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> obviously the server didn't need to encode/decode anything :)
01:01 <luke-jr_> but shouldn't it still fail on an import?
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> only if something that was imported imports it
01:02 <Lucifer_arma> it's imported in connection.py
01:03 <Lucifer_arma> connection.py contains nSocket
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> which *should* be imported somewhere else
01:04 <Lucifer_arma> connection_manager also imports it
01:06 <Lucifer_arma> yay, we're on a severe thunderstorm watch
01:07 <luke-jr_> blah, why does __init__ begin the listening?
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> the listening starts in StartRun
01:07 <Lucifer_arma> __init__ just does the binding
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> if the network layer can't bind, that's a fatal error, and I'd rather know about that before the thread is started
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> that's why it's in __init__
01:08 <Lucifer_arma> StartRun is after the thread has started and is run in the new thread
01:25 <luke-jr_> what is 'owner'?
01:26 <Lucifer_arma> depends on context, which object is it in?
01:26 <luke-jr_> network/*'s __init__
01:27 <luke-jr_> why aren't you using Python's nice logging framework? :P
01:27 <Lucifer_arma> because I have my own I want to plug in that I like better :)
01:28 <luke-jr_> :p
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> my own hasn't been extended yet to support syslog and stuff, but will
01:28 <luke-jr_> Python's doesn't
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> if python's supports those (which last I checked, it didn't), then I'd use it
01:28 <luke-jr_> and they won't merge my patch for it
01:28 <Lucifer_arma> I want to support the nt event logs, too
01:28 <luke-jr_> it only supports *remote* SysLog
01:28 <luke-jr_> AFAIK, Python's supports NT event logs
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> when the server's running as a daemon, it should work like a windows service
01:29 <luke-jr_> NTEventLogHandler instances send error messages to a Windows NT/2000/XP event log.
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll take another look at it
01:29 <luke-jr_> SysLogHandler instances send error messages to a Unix syslog daemon, possibly on a remote machine.
01:29 <luke-jr_> they say that
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> not ready to add logging, but it's soon
01:29 <luke-jr_> but it sends them to a syslog daemon ONLY on a remote machine :p
01:29 <luke-jr_> it won't use the syscall, only network sockets
01:29 <Lucifer_arma> tried saying localhost?  ;)
01:29 <luke-jr_> metalog doesn't do sockets
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> ah, it doesn't support *your* syslog daemon
01:30  * Lucifer_arma wonders what he's got for a syslog daemon
01:30 <luke-jr_> it doesn't support standard local syslogging
01:30 <luke-jr_> via the syscall
01:30 <luke-jr_> localhost would still be over the network, even if it's lo
01:30 <Lucifer_arma> I'm curious how much syslogging will be useful in the end, but if there's even one message generated that belongs there, I want to support it
01:31 <luke-jr_> all the 'print' stuff IMO belongs to logging
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> it needs a dual interface, actually
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> when running as a daemon, it needs to log
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> when run interactively, it needs to print
01:31 <luke-jr_> hm
01:31 <luke-jr_> StartRun doesn't seem to be called :(
01:31 <Lucifer_arma> um, it is?
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> if it wasn't called, the server wouldn't work at all
01:32 <luke-jr_> well
01:32 <luke-jr_> I mean from outside 'network'
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> nothing outside network is supposed to call it
01:32 <luke-jr_> ...
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> you call start() to start it
01:32 <luke-jr_> Network.start()
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01:32 <luke-jr_> where is that defined
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> because it's a threading.Thread subclass
01:32 <luke-jr_> aha
01:32 <Lucifer_arma> .start() is defined in threading.Thread :)
01:32 <luke-jr_> right
01:35 -!- crazy-tronner` [n=CT@eck83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #armagetron
01:35 <luke-jr_> so what's 'owner' again?
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> which class?
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> it's not in network/__init__.py
01:36 <luke-jr_> nNetwrokManager.__init__
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> that's a proxy object of sorts
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> depends on client and server what it does
01:36 <luke-jr_> ...
01:36 <crazy-tronner`> luke-jr_, ...
01:36 <Lucifer_arma> the one for the server isn't yet written
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely sure what the one on the server will do, but it will probably be the owner of the simulation
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> the one on the client is where the player's manager will live, and the GUI has to provide a second proxy object to connect to it
01:37 <Lucifer_arma> ais will provide a different second proxy object, obviously
01:38 <Lucifer_arma> as far as the server's concerned, the client required a separate owner to allow the framework I wanted on the client, and the server had to accept it to unite the network code
01:39 <luke-jr_> hm
01:39 <luke-jr_> my IM server seems to only work with IPv6
01:39 <luke-jr_> interesting that I never noticed it until now
01:39 <luke-jr_> (apparently Python doesn't O.o)
01:40 <Lucifer_arma> python sockets are supposed to support both IPv4 and IPv6
01:40 <luke-jr_> maybe it's the DNS library
01:40 -!- crazy-tronner` [n=CT@eck83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:40 <luke-jr_> tho
01:40 -!- crazy-tronner` [n=CT@eck83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #armagetron
01:40 <luke-jr_> maybe it's xmpppy using the DNS library longer than it should
01:42 <luke-jr_> odd
01:42 <luke-jr_> IM server claims to be listening on IPv4
01:44 <luke-jr_> nope :/
01:44 <luke-jr_> re xmpppy using DNS too long that is
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01:51 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu83w-156034251132.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:54 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Your_mom@pool-151-204-66-86.delv.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
01:56 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTro@adsl-75-56-50-151.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Armagetron
01:56 <DrJoeTron> are the weirdos still acting like weirdos?
01:56 <_Sticky_> wobrehwarughfdspfauihg
01:57 <DrJoeTron> Your_mom_arma are you going to get planet puzzle league?
02:04 -!- GodTodd [n=TheTruth@pool-71-170-89-192.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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02:06 <Lucifer_arma> hey, mom's here
02:08 <GodTodd> hi mom
02:10 <GodTodd> blah...guess i can't run the server in order to test :P
02:12 <Lucifer_arma> ?
02:14 <GodTodd> got errors and it kicked back to the term prompt
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> you can, you just need to change a line of code that's currently hardcoded to my internal ip address
02:14 <GodTodd> ahhh
02:14 <GodTodd> heh
02:14 <Lucifer_arma> line 45 in network_manager.py
02:14 <GodTodd> that explains this part:
02:14 <GodTodd> File "/home/todd/eugenics/libeugenics/network/network_manager.py", line 45, in __init__
02:14 <GodTodd>     self.__theSocket.bind( ( "192.168.1.103", 3400 ) )
02:14 <GodTodd> ;)
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> if you figure out how to make it unquestionably open to outside connections, please let me know
02:15 <Lucifer_arma> the docs say to use socket.gethostname() to do that, and it didn't work (which you noticed)
02:19 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@unaffiliated/madmaxpt/x-23911] has quit ["leaving"]
02:19 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: poke
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_: peek
02:19 <luke-jr_> can you auth me on IM?
02:19 <luke-jr_> and try IMing me
02:19 <luke-jr_> to see where it goes
02:19 <Lucifer_arma> no, sorry
02:20 <luke-jr_> -.-
02:20 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron:
02:20 <luke-jr_> you try IMing me
02:21 <luke-jr_> GodTodd: got IM?
02:21 <Your_mom_arma> DrJoeTron:  planet puzzle league?
02:22 <DrJoeTron> yeah
02:22 <luke-jr_> .......
02:22 <crazy-tronner> Dunno.
02:22 <DrJoeTron> its gotten great reviews
02:22 <DrJoeTron> its like tetris attack
02:22 <DrJoeTron> I'm going to pick it up when i finally finish pokeyman
02:22 <Your_mom_arma> gba game?
02:23 <DrJoeTron> DS game
02:23 <DrJoeTron> Your_mom_arma http://ds.ign.com/articles/793/793768p1.html
02:25 <Your_mom_arma> meh, doesn't look that interesting
02:25 <GodTodd> luke-jr_: yes, i have various means of instant messaging
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: you kicking?
02:28 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["Leaving."]
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> grrr
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> I'm only getting localhost addresses to show up
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> how the hell am I supposed to get what's on the other network interfaces?
02:39 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: ''
02:42 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: can you connect to my server?
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> oh good
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> I'll commit that
02:43 <Lucifer_arma> can you see me chat?
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> just killed the server
02:44 <Lucifer_arma> if you do svn update you'll get a fix that lets the server listen on all interfaces
02:47 <GodTodd> k
02:47 <GodTodd> updated
02:48 <GodTodd> server works now :)
02:48 <GodTodd> shows the login
02:49 <GodTodd> still no gui chatting tho :P
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> try building pyqt from source and see what happens
03:00 <Lucifer_arma> I'm a do that on my kubuntu box right now
03:02 -!- Lucifer_bed [n=satan@adsl-68-93-135-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
03:10 <Lucifer_bed> started building pyqt at 8:10
03:10 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"]
03:14 <GodTodd> where do i get pyqt to build it?
03:14 <GodTodd> trolltech site?
03:14 <Lucifer_bed> http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php
03:14 <Lucifer_bed> you'll also need sip from the same site
03:15 <Lucifer_bed> and you'll probably break pyqt3 if you have it installed
03:15 <Lucifer_bed> wow, 8:16 and still building
03:15 <Lucifer_bed> maybe it takes a little longer than I remembered it taking
03:16 <GodTodd> doing the tarball or the snapshot?
03:16 <Lucifer_bed> tarball
03:17 <GodTodd> k
03:18 <Lucifer_bed> starting up a pyqt3 build too, because my alarm clock depends on it
03:18 <Lucifer_bed> and I've just broken it
03:19 <Lucifer_bed> hey, it still works
03:19 <Lucifer_bed> maybe I don't need to rebuilt pyqt3
03:21 <Lucifer_bed> fine, it's been 12 minutes and it's still building
03:24 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_bed: hey
03:24 <luke-jr_> how do you cast objects in Python?
03:24 <Lucifer_bed> cast?
03:24 <luke-jr_> yeah
03:24  * Lucifer_bed casts an object
03:25 <luke-jr_> if I have a thing that thinks its a parent class
03:25 <Lucifer_bed> um, put it on a fishhook?
03:25 <luke-jr_> how do I treat it as a subclass?
03:25 <Lucifer_bed> er, not sure what you're after as far as python goes
03:25 <Lucifer_bed> all methods are virtual in python
03:25 <luke-jr_> MISMATCH <xmpp.client.Client instance at 0x2aae5235b440> VS <xmpp.dispatcher.Dispatcher instance at 0x2aae52387908>
03:25 <luke-jr_> those are supposed to be the same object
03:25 <Lucifer_bed> what's hard is calling the baseclass's version
03:25 <luke-jr_> I think
03:26 <GodTodd> Error: Make sure you have a working Qt v4 qmake on your PATH
03:26 <GodTodd> how do i fix this
03:26 <GodTodd> heh
03:26 <GodTodd> i know i have a working qt4
03:27 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_bed: btw, to fix Ctrl-C
03:27 <luke-jr_>         self.setDaemon(True)
03:27 <luke-jr_> in your Thread subclass
03:27 <Lucifer_bed> install the dev packages
03:27 <luke-jr_> causes that thread to self-terminate when all non-daemon threads go away
03:27 <GodTodd> i did
03:27 <Lucifer_bed> luke-jr_: that's not exactly what I want, I need regular signal handling
03:28 <Lucifer_bed> GodTodd: try again and make sure they're all there
03:28 <Lucifer_bed> then pass "-q /usr/share/qt4" to configure.py
03:31 <Lucifer_bed> wow, what do I normally do when I build pyqt4 that makes me think it only takes 5 minutes?
03:31 <Lucifer_bed> screw my wife?
03:31 <luke-jr_> lol
03:32 <luke-jr_> fyi, eugenics@dashjr.org is my new Eugenics test accountr
03:34  * GodTodd fills out some webforms with a new email address.
03:34 <Lucifer_bed> haha
03:34 <luke-jr_> good thing there's no email there
03:35 <Lucifer_bed> it's a jabber account
03:35 <GodTodd> ahhh ok...i'll spread it around irc rooms then
03:35 <GodTodd> :)
03:35 <Lucifer_bed> no, don't do that
03:35 <Lucifer_bed> if we wind up using his xmpp network stuff, he might want to keep it :)
03:35 <GodTodd> hrmm
03:36 <Lucifer_bed> of course, if we don't, go paint the town with it
03:36 <GodTodd> i grabbed everything that was pyqt4 in synaptic
03:36 <GodTodd> still not able to run configure.py
03:36 <Lucifer_bed> that's because you were supposed to grab just qt4 stuff
03:37 <Lucifer_bed> I asked for the Skippy and you brought back Jif
03:37 <Lucifer_bed> now go back for the Skippy
03:37 <GodTodd> i don't like skippy tho
03:48 <Lucifer_bed> ok, its 8:49 and it finished building
03:48 <Lucifer_bed> this is on a 2.8ghz p4
03:49 <Lucifer_bed> GodTodd: works
03:50 <luke-jr_> total time?
03:50 <Lucifer_bed> 39 minutes
03:51 <GodTodd> k...i'm getting the rest of the jif
03:51 <Lucifer_bed> good, now I know I can ignore ubuntu :)
03:51 <Lucifer_bed> just have to hope they release an updated pyqt4
03:51 <luke-jr_> lol
03:52 -!- Lucifer_bed [n=satan@adsl-68-93-135-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> luckily, I also know that building pyqt4 on kubuntu doesn't break pyqt3
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> so I won't feel guilty telling people to do that
03:56 <Lucifer_arma> wow, there's 5 bad weather warnings for us now
04:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508735B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:08 <GodTodd> building at 9:09
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> yay, no more exception spam when a socket dies on the server
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> ok fine, I did the setDaemon trick
04:14 <luke-jr_> :p
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not happy about it, but I'd rather be able to ctrl-C in the meantime
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, now what?
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, client work
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> client needs to be able to cancel the dialog and still be able to create a connection
04:16 <luke-jr_> indeed
04:16 <Lucifer_arma> leave one connection and join another, etc
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> cool.  now clients get notified when a user leaves
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> it's not perfect, the logout command isn't working
04:17 -!- _Sticky_ [n=Sticky@80-41-29-115.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"]
04:18 <luke-jr_> grr
04:18 <GodTodd> so...once this builds, the gui chat should work?
04:18 <luke-jr_> is there a way to get a traceback within a try statement?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, not really, luke-jr_ (hi there!)
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> at least, not that I know of
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> check the traceback module
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: yes
04:25 <luke-jr_> well, I just got eugenics@ to auto-authorize on request
04:25 <luke-jr_> so it can appear online :)
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> er, I don't have a disconnect button!
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> haha
04:25 <luke-jr_> lol
04:25 <Lucifer_arma> "Once you enter here, you can never leave!"
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, cancel works anyway
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, I remember how I wanted to handle it
04:26 <Lucifer_arma> the Network Game option should change to read "Exit server"
04:33 <Lucifer_arma> er, it almost works
04:34 <GodTodd> cool :) chat works now
04:35 <Lucifer_arma> now I'm totally confused on when the client is releasing the socket
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> rather, it's not, and that's the problem
04:36 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, I need to removesocket on the client side, and I'm not doing that at all!
04:37 <Lucifer_arma> yay
04:38 <Lucifer_arma> a little svn update would make you very happy
04:39 <luke-jr_> ?
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> maybe not you, luke-jr_ (hi there!) , depends on how much you've hacked the network stuff
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> but the server now handles drops well, but it doesn't handle logout for some reason
04:39 <Lucifer_arma> client should handle drops well, I haven't tried breaking the server while the client's connected yet
04:39  * Lucifer_arma tries it
04:40 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, client needs a fix still
04:46 <Lucifer_arma> ok, client survives a server quit
04:46 <Lucifer_arma> but since there's no pinging yet to see if the connections are still alive, there may be irregularities like if the server crashes or something
04:48 <Lucifer_arma> tcp is supposed to handle that, though
04:49  * Lucifer_arma is curious how long it would take the server to notice if it didn't have anything to say to the client for awhile and the cliet had disappeared
04:49 <Lucifer_arma> .monologue
04:49 <crazy-tronner> Lucifer_arma: Your current monologue is at least 10 lines long.
04:50 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: ping
04:50 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: pin
04:50 <Lucifer_arma> g
04:50 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: there is no timeout unless there is data trying to send
04:50 <Lucifer_arma> the answer is that I started up a eugenics server at the same bat place, and I'd like you guys to do svn update and connect and see if your chat disappears at all
04:50 <luke-jr_> so it could continue indefinately
04:51 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_: that's what I'm thinking.  I think I'll probably add somethiing to nSocket that keeps track of when the last message was sent, and add to the select poll something that checks and pings as needed
04:52 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma: pon
04:52 <GodTodd> g
04:54 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: hmm
04:54 <luke-jr_> why not make this p2p? :p
04:56 <luke-jr_> since AIs would just be clients...
05:00 <Your_mom_arma> pong
05:03 <Your_mom_arma> am I in the server?
05:03 <luke-jr_> no
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> um, I saw you in there
05:04 <luke-jr_> Your_mom: anyone here?
05:04 <luke-jr_> luke-jr: ...
05:04 <luke-jr_> luke-jr: just lost 2 msgs
05:04 <luke-jr_> Lucifer has logged in.
05:04 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: any reason this can't be p2p?
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> you tried setting up glob2 for network play, didn't you?
05:05 <luke-jr_> so?
05:05 <luke-jr_> glob2 was UDP
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> also, cheating
05:05 <luke-jr_> or at best TCP
05:05 <luke-jr_> how can there be cheating if every client enforces the shared rules?
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> now, I do want a feature where clients can run one or two ais, which would be a cheating vector
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> so it would only be recommended in a trusted group
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> because, luke-jr_ (hi there!) , the game is open source, meaning anyone can hack their client
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> here's a situation:
05:06 <luke-jr_> any it would only effect their client...
05:06 <luke-jr_> and*
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> I mod the ai and my client so it always fires up the ai, and then make it so that my game client can see everything the ai can see
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> with a little backend connection between the two, the ai client just relays messages (and acts on them on its own of course)
05:07 <luke-jr_> so? anyone could mod their AI-client to not report itself as AI
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> also, where would combat be resolved?
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> yes, but if all the ais run on the server, which will be the recommended configuration when you're in a group with someone untrusted, then it doesn't matter
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> because that ai never gets started
05:08 <luke-jr_> you never know if it gets started
05:08 <luke-jr_> if it just appears as another player
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> well, that's a cheating vector freeciv has already :)
05:09 <luke-jr_> indeed
05:09 <luke-jr_> and there's nothing you can do about it, really
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> other than check connections from the same ip address and limit accordingly
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> that's still not a perfect fix
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> hey,w e should have this conversation on the server so we can test it
05:13 <luke-jr_> anyhow, p2p doesn't change any of those problems
05:20 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: ping
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> .ping
05:21 <crazy-tronner> pong
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> .poing
05:21 <crazy-tronner> Wish I knew!
05:22 <Lucifer_arma> .piong
05:22 <crazy-tronner> Dunno!
05:35 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
05:36 <epsy> hi
05:45 <Lucifer_arma> hi
05:47 <Lucifer_arma> I like how the client doesn't tell you the network connection is broken
05:47 <epsy> uh ?
05:57 <Lucifer_arma> neat, python provides a queue class
06:00 <Lucifer_arma> does someone want to write a script that'll convert freeciv civilizations to xml for eugenics to use?
06:00  * Lucifer_arma thinks we should use svg for all graphics, since it can be sent over the network easily compared to binary file formats
06:02 <mkzelda> anyone play nexuiz here?
06:03 <epsy> mkzelda, why not
06:03 <mkzelda> u do?
06:03 <epsy> but i have to figure i'm really using 2.3
06:03 <epsy> wait
06:03 <epsy> i'm reading eh ct forums
06:03 <mkzelda> ive tried 2.3 on three different connections, 6 different pc's and i cant figure out how to run a server and connect to it
06:03 <mkzelda> i mean... i cant connect to any of them
06:03 <epsy> double click ?
06:03 <mkzelda> all behind firewalls, all seemingly forwarded correctly
06:03 <mkzelda> cant connect to them
06:04 <epsy> Oo
06:04 <mkzelda> Interesting ports on cpe-066-026-054-194.nc.res.rr.com (66.26.54.194):
06:04 <mkzelda> PORT      STATE         SERVICE
06:04 <mkzelda> 26000/udp open|filtered quake
06:04 <mkzelda> should be good
06:05 <mkzelda> how do you connect to a server besides starting a game, opening the console and typing 'connect ip'
06:05 <epsy> errr...i'm using the menu :P
06:05 <mkzelda> i mean, one not in the master list
06:05 <epsy> hmm
06:05 <mkzelda> ive got some friends who would not last on a public server
06:06 <mkzelda> we're just tryin to noob it in a private server
06:06 <mkzelda> i did find a public one i have a 20ms ping w/ :)
06:08 <epsy> lol
06:08 <mkzelda> Interesting ports on c-71-205-81-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net (71.205.81.171):
06:08 <mkzelda> PORT      STATE         SERVICE
06:08 <mkzelda> 26000/udp open|filtered quake
06:08 <mkzelda> :/
06:08 <mkzelda> this should work
06:09 <mkzelda> hrm, i wonder if talk_to_master 0 (whatever they call it) makes it stop listening on the public address
06:09 <Lucifer_arma> heh
06:09  * Lucifer_arma just tore out a bunch of hair to figure out how to get a python socket to listen on the public address
06:10 <mkzelda> heh
06:10 <mkzelda> im willing to bet that must be the prob
06:10 <mkzelda> it makes no sense otherwise
06:10 <mkzelda> 3 hosts with properly opened ports all unable to interconnect in any combo
06:16 <mkzelda> hrm one combo yields a diff result...
06:16 <mkzelda> client connects but gets nothing but ->client to server "keepalive" <--server to client "keepalive"
06:18 <epsy> mkzelda, can you start a server ?
06:18 <epsy> i'ill try connection
06:18 <epsy> *-o
06:19 <epsy> *+g
06:19 <epsy> hmm
06:19 <epsy> i don't know how to toggle cursor retention
06:21 <Lucifer_arma> same way you toggle anal retention--by eating a lot of cheese
06:25 <mkzelda> i have servers running on multiple hosts
06:25 <mkzelda> the 2 i just pasted here...
06:26 <mkzelda> 66.26.54.194, 71.205.81.171, and myself (but down atm)
06:31 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Your_mom@pool-151-204-66-86.delv.east.verizon.net] has quit ["cya"]
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> hmmmm
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> any suggestions when the player object should be created?  ;)
06:43 <Lucifer_arma> choices are "immediately on login, in the network layer" and "in the game loop"
06:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah, er, nvm
06:48 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
07:11 <mkzelda> got it working via the pre-compiled binaries
07:12 <mkzelda> dunno why mine dont work, but mine are unable to exec .cfg files
07:13 <Lucifer_arma> another gentoo problem solved by using a packaged binary
07:13  * Lucifer_arma quietly ignores the ubuntu problem he just solved by building from source
07:19 <mkzelda> lol
07:19 <mkzelda> actually i still get same problem
07:19 <mkzelda> epsy: u around?
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> [23:52] <-- epsy has left this server ("09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ).
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> oh good, doxygen has native support for python
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> it didn't used to, and I really dislike python's doc system
07:25  * Lucifer_arma considers setting up a doxy file real quick
07:37 <Lucifer_arma> grrrr
07:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm coining a new phrase someone probably already coined
07:37 <Lucifer_arma> Programmer's Block
07:37 <Lucifer_arma> I've got Programmer's Block
07:38 <mkzelda> oh thanks luci, i hide parts/joins and sometimes forget to look at the nicklist
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> ah
07:38 <Lucifer_arma> that's not a bad idea, but then I'd never know when people part/join
07:39 <mkzelda> i used to divert them to a seperate, custom window
07:39 <Lucifer_arma> I'd prefer something that collects multiple parts altogether in one line
07:39 <Lucifer_arma> and multiple joins
07:40 <Lucifer_arma> or if it would just catch netsplits somehow, you know?
07:40 <mkzelda> i dont quite understand
07:40 <Lucifer_arma> what I really need is to figure out how the server's supposed to loop during the waiting room time and switch to the game time, and then how it's supposed to loop then
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> join/part messages are only annoying in two instances, one being a net split, in which case you could have like 20 users all with a part message
07:41 <mkzelda> i havent used windows in about 5 years, but i used to do a lot of mirc scriping, completely re-wrote every bit of netcode
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> the other is when it's Vanhayes and his shitty internet connection where's he keeps dropping and stuff
07:41 <mkzelda> i know how to do that real easy w/ mirc right now
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> konversation?
07:41 <Lucifer_arma> ;)
07:41 <mkzelda> im using konversation now
07:42 <mkzelda> and i just looked into scripting a few days ago
07:42 <mkzelda> u just call any .pl or .sh
07:42 <Lucifer_arma> konversation doesn't have scripting, does it?
07:42 <mkzelda> yea
07:42 <mkzelda> it just uses any python or perl or shell script
07:42 <Lucifer_arma> perl or shell?  I could probably use that shell to throw on a python script
07:43 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I don't think I want to get busy on my irc client, heh
07:43 <mkzelda> that doesnt help me tho, cause it doesnt allow me to do a lot of what i wanted to do
07:43 <mkzelda> i wrote an http server in mirc script :D
07:44 <Lucifer_arma> heh
07:44 <mkzelda> not that i want to again, but that was very simple
07:44 <mkzelda> i made mirc into a mud client
07:44 <mkzelda> i made an ftp client
07:44 <mkzelda> socket usage was simple
07:45 <mkzelda> for everything ppl bitch about mIRC breaking standards and such
07:45 <mkzelda> they're really missing the power in its scripting
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> I think I'll have the server give up control to the game when it starts and just have the main server loop be the waiting room
07:46 <mkzelda> dont you hate when you have to make a decision like this, and months/years from now you wish you'd gone the other way
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> you're not helping!?!?!!
07:46 <Lucifer_arma> ;)
07:46 <mkzelda> haha
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> want to write a little script?
07:47 <mkzelda> maybe
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> I need something that converts freeciv civilization files to xml
07:47 <Lucifer_arma> xml can be anything, as long as it makes sense
07:48 <mkzelda> u got a b4 and after example?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't
07:48 <mkzelda> just b4's?
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> I haven't spec'd the xml
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you get to spec the xml :)
07:48 <mkzelda> heh
07:48 <mkzelda> i guess i could try
07:48 <mkzelda> do i have to install freeciv now?
07:48 <mkzelda> heh
07:48 <Lucifer_arma> nah, you can just grab a file from their svn browser
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> the file's pretty clear what it is
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> mostly I just want the leader names, genders, and cities
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> you can probably trash the rest
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> maybe copy the flag information, if there's an svg for it
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> best is to embed the svg flag into the xml
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> since svg is xml
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> forget dtd's and crap, I'm not going to waste my time with that
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> and it shoudn't crawl, should just do one file
07:51 <mkzelda> what are these freeciv civ files
07:51 <mkzelda> i dont know much about its structure
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> lemme link you
07:52 <mkzelda> im emerging it just for you, cause theres already been a bunch of things i couldnt remember that you've asked so i figure it'll be handy
07:53 <mkzelda> ah i shoulda used the overlay from arma
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/freeciv/trunk/data/nation/
07:53 <mkzelda> oh nm its older
07:54 <mkzelda> gna!
07:54 <mkzelda> heh
07:54 <mkzelda> whats the point of an outdated ebuild of freeciv in the armagetron layman overlay?
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> ask luke-jr :)
07:55 <mkzelda> stdsounds
07:55  * mkzelda wonders what that sounds like
07:55 <GodTodd> is that from when he was going to make an armafreeciv or a freecivarma or whatever the fuck?
07:56 <GodTodd> heh
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> I think he just did that so other gentoo folks could easily get freeciv to play with us
07:57 <GodTodd> ahh
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> it might also have been because at the time gentoo's ebuild was behind
07:58 <mkzelda> yea
07:59 <mkzelda> Lucifer_arma: u sure you wanna trash the other values, seems just as easy to save it all at once
07:59 <mkzelda> extra data can always go unused
08:00 <mkzelda> and can more easily be cut, than added back
08:05 <Lucifer_arma> that's really up to you, but most of it will be useless in our model, I think
08:06 <Lucifer_arma> it probably is easier to ignore for a long time then it is to try to add it if it's needed
08:08 <Lucifer_arma> heh, my last commit probably broke the server
08:09 <Lucifer_arma> I don't think I want to surrender complete control to the game object
08:09 <Lucifer_arma> that would mean having two event loops, and I'd really rather just have one
08:12 <mkzelda> whats a good descriptor in lieu of 'name'
08:13 <mkzelda> for 'afghani/afghanis'
08:13 <mkzelda> thats not the "name"
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> civname single="afghani" plural="afghanis"
08:13 <mkzelda> thx
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> er
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> <civname single="afghani" plural="afghanis">
08:13 <mkzelda> right
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> or just <civilization blah>
08:14 <Lucifer_arma> of course, if we get british players, they'll bitch that it's not civilisation
08:14 <mkzelda> hah
08:14 <mkzelda> i just left it civname
08:14 <Lucifer_arma> THEY CAN WRITE THEIR OWN!!!!!
08:14 <mkzelda> i like that
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> man, this block just won't lift
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> I can't even figure out the first thing to do in the loop
08:15 <mkzelda> i havent messed w/ xml much more than arma so im having to brush up on the rules
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> lowercase everything, even though philippe insists on capitalizing everything
08:16 <mkzelda> i like lowercase
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, quotes around attributes, no attributes without assignments
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> so you can't have  <civname thisisaflag>
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> no need to bother with namespaces, I don't understand them either
08:16 <mkzelda> yea i got that much
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> and /> if a tag doesn't contain anything
08:17 <mkzelda> yea
08:17 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, do what html says and minidom should parse it :)
08:17 <Lucifer_arma> if there is a & or a <, >, etc, the substitution should probably be made.  I don't know how minidom will react to them if it's not.
08:18 <Lucifer_arma> but it doesn't even need a doctype or any of that crap, it'll parse fragments just fine and return a small dom for them
08:18 <mkzelda> k
08:18 <Lucifer_arma> minidom makes xml useful.  :)
08:19 <mkzelda> you like the capitli(s/z)ation of the values tho?
08:19 <Lucifer_arma> of course, if you manage to copy teh contents of an svg file in there, you should put a parent tag on it that sas like <svgembed> or something so I can easily pull it out
08:19 <Lucifer_arma> no, I prefer lowercase everywhere except in actual content
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> actual content should follow regular english grammar :)
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> in particular, american english, but I'm not that particular
08:20 <mkzelda> i havent seen an svg file in any
08:20 <mkzelda> tho i only looked at afghani and america
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> they reference the flags weirdly
08:21 <mkzelda> they reference f.afghanistan which is then elsewhere... i can deal w/ that later
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> the svg files aren't even part of the nationset.  They wrote a tool that renders the svg files to pngs so their loader can load it
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> we have native support in qt for svg, and if we're going to support zooming on the map, we need to use it for all graphics, if possible
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> so honestly, if the choice is grab an svg or not have a graphic and there's no easy way to get the svg, I'd go without a graphic
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> we can dig up svg flags later
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> they're not that hard to come by
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> we can even draw them ourselves, flags aren't that hard to draw :)
08:23 <mkzelda> theres a standard set that all the bittorrent clients use now
08:23 <mkzelda> and forums
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> are they svg?
08:23 <mkzelda> not sure about that, but a mass-conversion wouldnt be difficult either
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> we'll also need historical flags, which could be hard to come by, but won't matter as far as freeciv is concerned because they don't have historically-accurate flags
08:24 <mkzelda> if the set is solid
08:24 <mkzelda> i mean, the set IS solid
08:24 <mkzelda> so, if its not svg a mass convert would be worth it, since its a good set
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> then it probably exists as svg somewhere :)
08:24 <mkzelda> yea
08:24 <mkzelda> ktorrent uses whatever it is
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, if it can be converted reasonably.  We've had some problems converting bitmaps to svgs, but we'll have to see
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> imagemagick supports the conversion, iirc
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> hell, if qt can load a bitmap and convert it internally to a respectable svg, we can do that too, but I doubt it does that
08:26 <mkzelda> im still unsure of one thing...
08:27 <mkzelda> for lists, should i store it like <cities="new york, chicago, etc."/> or <??="cities">new york, etc.</???> and does the latter store values or is that std output?
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> <city>New York</city><city>Lost Wages</city>
08:28 <mkzelda> yea, i was gonna ask about how to properly handle spaces next
08:28 <mkzelda> i guess that'd do that
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> for stuff like that, I'll strip spaces on either side, and collapse all other whitespace to one space, like html
08:29 <mkzelda> right
08:30 <mkzelda> preference of <city="New York"/> or <city>New York</city> ?
08:31 <mkzelda> save a few chars on the former
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> preference is the latter, here's why:
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> the former is invalid :)
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> <city name="New York" /> would be valid
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> then it doesn't save so many characters :)
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> the latter is more easily read, and can be extended easily with more attributes
08:32 <mkzelda> k
08:33 <mkzelda> true
08:34 <mkzelda> im manually doing 1-afghani so u decide how you like it then ill make something mass edit
08:35 <mkzelda> how many countries have a different title based on gender?
08:35 <mkzelda> cause that seems certainly worth trashing
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> a lot, actually
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> it is, sadly, worth keeping :(
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> think about it, Queen Elizabeth, King Henry VIII...
08:38 <mkzelda> yea, but thats as easily stored in the ruler name
08:38 <mkzelda> tho harder to script the change
08:39 <mkzelda> trashing nothing is easiest to mass edit
08:40 <mkzelda> but what i was saying was its easier to store name="Queen Elizabeth" than name="Elizabeth" gender="female" female_title="Queen" unless u have another example where that doesnt work
08:44 <mkzelda> init_buildings=""
08:44 <mkzelda> init_techs=""
08:44 <mkzelda> thats found in every ruleset
08:44 <mkzelda> is that so you can start with techs or buildings in a new game?
08:44 <mkzelda> and shall i just ignore that altogether?
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> if Elizabeth is the ruler, and the government is Democracy, you'd have President Queen Elizabeth
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> you can ignore init_buildings and init_techs
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> freeciv ignores them too
08:47 <mkzelda> heh true
08:47 <mkzelda> re pres queen
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> although we may end up with President Queen Clinton in a bit
08:47 <mkzelda> there exists 12 alt.flags
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, my event queue works, now what do I do with it?  ;)
08:48 <mkzelda> but 4 are uk
08:48 <mkzelda> 2 .it
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> here's the deal.  If you can't embed an svg file in directly, you're better off leaving flags out entirely
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> or just put a placeholder tag
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> like <flag />
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> a nop tag
08:48 <Lucifer_arma> we can sed for that when we have a flag
08:48 <mkzelda> i dont know shit about embedding anything into xml
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> if it's svg, you just open it like a regular file, read it, and go line by line and copy it under the flag tag :)
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> svg is xml
08:49 <mkzelda> tho given the right docs im capable of just about anything
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> since svg is xml, I could theoretically do document.getTagsByName("flag") and get the actual svg for the flag
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> grab each child of flag and turn it into a document object, then render the xml if I need to to give to qt
08:50 <mkzelda> then can u just as easily reference the svg file rather than embed?
08:50 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but embedding is so much fun :)
08:51 <mkzelda> heh ok
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> actually, referencing the file instead of embed is probaby smarter
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> and I"m just smoking something
08:51 <mkzelda> i figure referencing is better for the sake of editing the file(s) later and having alt.flags
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> I know what it is, I want to just dump this xml file to the client like it is and the client has everything it needs to render
08:51 <mkzelda> well thats a good reason too
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> alt.flags shouldn't be needed, the server's going to send everything.  Clients will be very thin in this regard
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> well, that might change
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> I suppose we could make it skinnable like freeciv
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> server should still send the flag the player picked to the other players, regardless of skin, I think
08:53 <mkzelda> you could allow server side map hacks that way i suppose, and whereas if it were client dependent ppl could hack their own maps only
08:54 <mkzelda> if that was something someone wanted to do
08:54 <mkzelda> er
08:54 <mkzelda> map hacks = flag hacks
08:54 <mkzelda> bleh
08:54 <mkzelda> i dunno that anyone would wanna do that, but if they wanted a pirate flag they could
08:54 <mkzelda> isnt there a country w/ the jolly roger as its flag?
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> Luciferians :)
08:55  * Lucifer_arma made a civilization for freeciv that uses Jack Rackham's flag
08:56 <GodTodd> barbarians too, eh?
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> I think that if a player chooses an explicit flag for his civ, the other players should have to look at it
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> server admin could disable uploading flags (when this feature appears) to protect the kiddies
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> you know, from porn and stuff
08:57 <mkzelda> heh
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, should barbs even get flags?  ;)
08:58 <mkzelda> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pirate_Flag_of_Rack_Rackham.svg lol
08:58 <mkzelda> wiki's got it all these days
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> yep, that's the one I used alright :)
08:58 <GodTodd> i think barbs should be handled same as disasters
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> I disagree
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> I think barbs should be modeled and could become civilizations
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> think about the difference between the romans conquering the "barbs" in europe, and the americans conquering the "barbs" in the US
08:59 <GodTodd> well...then, yes, at that point they *should* have a flag :P
08:59 <mkzelda> the order of the cities
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> yep :)
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> in freeciv the order is roughly meaningless
08:59 <mkzelda> seems to be prioritized
08:59 <mkzelda> somehow
09:00 <mkzelda> based on some unknown criteria
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> it is, but the algorithm is weird so that how they appear in the file isn't terribly useful
09:00 <mkzelda> do u care, or would u rather alpha it and rnd() later?
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> second choice
09:00 <mkzelda> k
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> in freeciv, the way you see the cities when you discover a civilization gives away too much information
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I think I just figured out how to deal with event processing in the game object
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> running through the event loop is just organizing the events, then run the game step, whatever it is
09:02 <mkzelda> then again, people dont have to use the default names
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> no, they don't
09:03 <mkzelda> i never thought about that tho
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> and we'll hopefully have a ui that actually makes it convenient to customize city names
09:03 <mkzelda> freeciv using the same order gives up info on the order u built your city
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> yep, and you can usually identify the capital based on that
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's not guaranteed, but it is possible to narrow it down to one of three cities
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> if you can build 3 nukes, that's all you need :)
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> of course, by the time you can build nukes, you better have already spied out the capital anyway, or YOU SUCK!
09:04 <mkzelda> and the people who wouldnt think of that are the ones who are already at the biggest disadvantage, novices
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09:06 <Lucifer_arma> we'll probably support some other naming methods, just because Vanhayes stumbled across numbering his cities as a useful way to track them
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> but that's quite a ways down there right now
09:09 <mkzelda> http://mkzelda.com/afghani.ruleset.xml.txt ... what about that is wrong or would u like changed?
09:09 <mkzelda> note the ??? needs a suggestion
09:10 <mkzelda> and for the most part i kept var names
09:10 <mkzelda> but i did do city instead of cities
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> Resource should be lower-case
09:14 <mkzelda> k
09:15 <mkzelda> i copy/pasted that out of arma
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> heh
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> damn philipp!
09:15 <mkzelda> so i forgot
09:15 <mkzelda> done
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> ok, how about <leader gender="other">Scott Ian</leader>
09:15 <mkzelda> haha
09:15 <mkzelda> we def should have more than 2 genders
09:16 <mkzelda> hermo
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> <ruler_titles>
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> <title government="Democracy">Mr. Asshat</title>
09:16 <mkzelda> k
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> </ruler_titles>
09:17 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise looks good :)
09:18 <mkzelda> mr asshat?
09:18 <mkzelda> what about <government>democracy</government>?
09:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, see, we don't have any sort of political model even under discussion right now
09:19 <Lucifer_arma> except for some crap about passing laws
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> soo....  I'm not sure what to do about governments because they might well wind up being referred to by id or sha1 or whatever
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> so what you really want for anything resembling government is something that can easily be search and replaced
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> rather, search, parsed, and replaced
09:20 <mkzelda> but as far as im concerned...
09:21 <mkzelda> im just trying to get you there as close as possible
09:21 <Lucifer_arma> right.  :)  I guess what I"m really saying is "I don't have any idea", just trying to use as many words as possible
09:22 <mkzelda> u want <title government="Democracy">Mr. Asshat</title> or you want <government>Democracy</government>, and then does that conflict w/ the previous <government>Monarchy</government>
09:22 <mkzelda> and i could use  a suggestion where i have <??? leader
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> the freeciv file means "This title goes with this government".
09:23 <Lucifer_arma> <leader gender="other">Scott Ian</leader>   <--- that's about it for leader
09:23 <mkzelda> ok
09:23 <mkzelda> i was distracted by the joke
09:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh, sorry
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> I want the <title government="Democracy">Mr. Asshat</title> assuming there isn't more information needed there
09:24 <Lucifer_arma> ever play Ultima 3?
09:25 <mkzelda> nope, but im familiar
09:25 <mkzelda> i even have it :/
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I just remember ultima 3 having an "other" gender
09:25 <mkzelda> so then similarly <title male_title="Prime Minister">Mr Asshat</title>
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> and all the hours I spent hacking characters with a hex editor
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> eek
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> I did miss something
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> ah, I know what I screwed up
09:26 <mkzelda> i had it all in a one liner
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> <title government="Democracy" gender="male">Mr. Asshat</title>
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> does that cover it now?
09:26  * Lucifer_arma goes back and looks
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah
09:27 <mkzelda> yea i think so
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> <title government="Democracy" gender="male">Prime Minister</title>
09:27 <mkzelda> then female...
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> the joke distracted from the meaning too much, since Mr. President replaces the ruler's name when you're addressing him directly
09:27 <Lucifer_arma> so to cover both male and female, you need two lines per government
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> <title government="Democracy" gender="alll">Prime Minister</title>
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> er
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> <title government="Democracy" gender="all">Prime Minister</title>
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know how smart you want to make it, but there really are a lot of instances where male and female titles are identical :/
09:28 <Lucifer_arma> it's just that the ones where they're not identical are pretty important
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> could just leave off gender entirely
09:29 <mkzelda> one more thing, are leader names significant?
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> for the case where the title is for all
09:29 <mkzelda> i mean...
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> depends on what you mean :)
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> most players will put in their own names
09:29 <mkzelda> like the case of cities
09:29 <mkzelda> where im alphabetizing them
09:29 <Lucifer_arma> ah, no, leader names aren't significant
09:30 <mkzelda> ordered per existence or alpha
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> they might become significant, because I do want to associate character to the ais, but that's waaaay down the road
09:30 <mkzelda> well im not going to do the former
09:30 <mkzelda> heh
09:30 <mkzelda> but if you're looking for something historically accurate, it'd be relevant
09:30 <mkzelda> but like i said, im not doing that
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but not relevant at the level you're at :)
09:30 <Lucifer_arma> and not for many many moons
09:31 <mkzelda> u could tie in a year and have your ruler change based on years
09:31 <Lucifer_arma> I've considered that, actually
09:31 <Lucifer_arma> get a new ruler name when your government changes, that sort of thing
09:31 <Lucifer_arma> if you're a voting government, get a new ruler every 4 years
09:32 <Lucifer_arma> depends on the political model what we end up with, but it's not intended to be a role-playing game
09:32 <Lucifer_arma> but switching out the ruler names without otherwise affecting gameplay could add useful information that players can use which would be good
09:32 <Lucifer_arma> "I see he's having political difficulty, he's got a different ruler name than last time"
09:32 <mkzelda> refresh...
09:33 <Lucifer_arma> looks good
09:33 <mkzelda> Jalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalabad
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> I did read Ab Gach as Abu Ghraib like 4 times
09:34 <mkzelda> ditto
09:34 <mkzelda> i thought i saw it, like when you see something in your peripheral vision
09:34 <mkzelda> then i never found it again
09:34 <Lucifer_arma> yep :)
09:37 <mkzelda> k i can leave u alone now
09:50 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTro@adsl-75-56-50-151.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Bye."]
10:03 <Lucifer_arma> rev 30 now :)
10:20 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #armagetron
10:37 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["grml. warum ist uni schon soo  früh? *.*"]
10:42 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871E51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
10:55 <mkzelda> some of these rulesets break format w/ extra whitespaces and such
10:58 <mkzelda> wonder="Great Wall" ; Yes, we had own great wall ("WaÅy ÅlÄskie")
10:58 <mkzelda> lol
11:02 <mkzelda> Lucifer_arma: what about $civilwar_nations ?
11:02 <mkzelda> just discovered that one, not defined in the ones i looked at
11:26 -!- Lucifer_bed [n=satan@adsl-68-93-135-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
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12:01 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871E51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
12:03 <mkzelda> hrm, how do you escape an equal sign in sed
12:03 <mkzelda> so it doesnt give a line number
12:08 <mkzelda> nm was doing a grep -c
12:15 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"]
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12:58 -!- P4|away is now known as P4
13:13 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@85.183-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
13:14 <MrBougo> hello
13:17 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTro@adsl-75-56-50-151.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Armagetron
13:26 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTro@adsl-75-56-50-151.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Bye."]
13:53 -!- kidd [n=kidd@232.Red-88-24-246.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"]
14:09 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #armagetron
14:11 <MrBougo> digi :D
14:19 <P4> hi guys
14:23 <MrBougo> hiho P4
14:25 <digitx> digi?
14:25 <digitx> where?
14:25 <digitx> hi p4
14:25 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #armagetron
14:25 <MrBougo> hello deja_vu
14:25 <digitx> hio
14:27 <deja_vu> hey
14:31 <MrBougo> deja_vu: don't do /exec -o yes
14:31 <MrBougo> never
14:31 <MrBougo> even if someone asks
14:32 <deja_vu> k
14:32 <deja_vu> bored?^^
14:32 <MrBougo> ever tried the yes command in console? :p
14:33 <deja_vu> yea
14:33 <MrBougo> i dont get it... what's the purpose of this
14:34 <deja_vu> you could use it to pipe "yes" to another command
14:34 <MrBougo> haha
14:34 <deja_vu> if it has prompts that annoy you or something
14:34 <MrBougo> oh right, thats a good idea
14:35 <MrBougo> i've yes > yes.txt for one second
14:35 <MrBougo> 18 megs
14:35 <MrBougo> it goes amazingly fast
14:35 <deja_vu> slow *g*
14:35 <MrBougo> and the command is amazingly short
14:35 <MrBougo> i mean to make some joke
14:35 <MrBougo> just fill some guy's harddrive :D
14:35 <deja_vu> might have something to do with it being amazingly easy
14:35 <deja_vu> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda ;)
14:36 <deja_vu> 96045056 bytes (96 MB) copied, 1.91094 seconds, 50.3 MB/s
14:36 <deja_vu> slightly faster ;)
14:37 <MrBougo> lolz
14:37 <MrBougo> nano | yes does some byootiful eyecandy
14:37 <MrBougo> (relatively beautiful)
14:37 <MrBougo> (relatively eyecandy
14:38 <deja_vu> don't have nano^^
14:38 <MrBougo> hehe
14:39 <MrBougo> doesnt work with vi :(
14:39 <deja_vu> that doesn't make sense, anyway :P
14:39 <MrBougo> indeed
14:40 <MrBougo> i'm out
14:40 <MrBougo> bye!
14:40 <deja_vu> bye
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14:57 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Távozom"]
14:57 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #armagetron
15:05 -!- P4 is now known as P4|away
15:23 <digitx> #t en fr test
15:23 <digitx> oha
15:23 <digitx> where is armabot?
16:15 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Távozom"]
16:16 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #armagetron
16:16  * GodTodd thinks that enough people keep asking "where is armabot?" that perhaps it should be added to the topic ;)
16:18 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-11-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
16:22 <digitx> where is armabot!
16:22 <digitx> :D
16:23 <digitx> i wanna armabot
16:32 <GodTodd> !ping
16:32 <BotSub> pong
16:32 <GodTodd> !weather 75023
16:32 <BotSub> GodTodd: The current temperature in Near Custer and Parker, Plano, Texas is 76.8°F (9:34 AM CDT on June 04, 2007). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 64.4°F. Pressure: 29.18 in 988.0 hPa (Falling).
16:42 -!- luke-jr_work [n=luke-jr@adsl-76-194-177-181.dsl.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
17:04 -!- MrBougo [i=MrBougo@41.237-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
17:04 <MrBougo> hello
17:09 <luke-jr_work> hihi
17:10 <digitx> oh no! luke!
17:10 <digitx> :D
17:18 <luke-jr_work> /kick digitx
17:18 <luke-jr_work> :D
17:19 <MrBougo> /exec -o yes kick me
17:19 <MrBougo> :D
17:21 <luke-jr_work> do NOT do that
17:22 <MrBougo> o rly? :p
17:23 <MrBougo> that's a nice advice
17:23 <MrBougo> windows people can do it :)
17:23 <MrBougo> EXEC	Le fichier spécifié est introuvable.
17:24 <MrBougo> it means "bad command or filename"
17:25 <luke-jr_work> ...
17:25 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_work, ...
17:25 <MrBougo> :D
17:26 <MrBougo> .alias add .. echo ???
17:26 <crazy-tronner> MrBougo: Error: Alias ".." is locked.
17:26 <MrBougo> bah...
17:26 <MrBougo> P4|away: :(
17:27 <digitx> .alias add ? echo $who ???
17:27 <crazy-tronner> digitx: The operation succeeded.
17:27 <digitx> ?
17:28 <digitx> .?
17:28 <crazy-tronner> digitx ???
17:28 <digitx> oha:(
17:28 <digitx> :D
17:29 <MrBougo> !alias add !! echo ???
17:29 <BotSub> MrBougo: The operation succeeded.
17:29 <MrBougo> !!!
17:29 <BotSub> ???
17:29 -!- MrBougo [i=MrBougo@41.237-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
17:29 <digitx> lol
17:30 <digitx> !!!
17:30 <BotSub> ???
17:30 <digitx> !!!
17:30 <BotSub> ???
17:30 <digitx> !!!
17:30 <BotSub> ???
17:30 <digitx> !!!
17:30 <BotSub> ???
17:30 <digitx> !!!
17:30 <BotSub> ???
17:38 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Távozom"]
18:02 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=SuPeRTaR@71.145.158.161] has joined #armagetron
18:17 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
18:19 <epsy> hi
18:20 <madmax|pt> hi
19:09 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl5-11-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["leaving"]
19:31 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@19.39-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
19:32 <MrBougo> hello
19:42 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-182-238.client.mchsi.com] has joined #armagetron
19:44 <ghableska> !weather 50266
19:44 <BotSub> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, Iowa is 77.5°F (12:45 PM CDT on June 04, 2007). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 51.8°F. Pressure: 28.74 in 973.1 hPa (Falling).
19:52  * Lucifer_arma prefers to have the comic in the topic now
19:55 <epsy> hello MrBougo, ghableska
19:55 <MrBougo> hellop epseh
19:55 <epsy> i remember that typo i made here
19:55 <epsy> « simply press wtrl + alt + del »
20:02 <MrBougo> haha
20:03 <MrBougo> i think i was there
20:04 <MrBougo> epsy: epsy epsy epsy
20:04 <MrBougo> ima mod some qvm then you're gonna test it
20:04 <luke-jr_> .......
20:04 <crazy-tronner> No idea!
20:04 <MrBougo> :D
20:07 <epsy> mranexuizing
20:07 <epsy> MrBougo, nexuiz'ing
20:07 <MrBougo> lol?
20:09 <MrBougo> np epsy you'll try it later :p
20:14 <mkzelda> !weather 27545
20:14 <BotSub> mkzelda: The current temperature in Hedingham, Raleigh, North Carolina is 90.9°F (2:16 PM EDT on June 04, 2007). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 33%. Dew Point: 57.2°F. Pressure: 29.59 in 1001.9 hPa (Falling).
20:14 <mkzelda> farkin bah
20:15 <mkzelda> We finally got some rain for the first time in 3+ months, and only b/c that tropical storm and its already clear and 91
20:17 <MrBougo> epsy?
20:19 <MrBougo> epsy epsy epsy epsy, unzip this in your tremulous folder http://rapidshare.com/files/35238909/bahbah.zip.html
20:19 <MrBougo> and have fun with human blaster and sprint :p
20:19 <MrBougo> bye
20:19 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@19.39-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
20:22 <ghableska> ahh
20:24 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #armagetron
20:26 <ghableska> hi digitx
20:26 <digitx> hi
20:31 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@adsl-68-93-135-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:07 <P4|away> .alias add ? "commands"
21:07 <crazy-tronner> P4|away: The operation succeeded.
21:07 <P4|away> .alias lock ?
21:07 <crazy-tronner> P4|away: The operation succeeded.
21:07 -!- P4|away is now known as P4
21:07 <P4> :}
21:17 <P4> .tea
21:17 <crazy-tronner> P4: Fortress Café: No online players.
21:17 <P4> .ct
21:17 <crazy-tronner> Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress: Players (11/14): åopåritiøm, CoSaNoStrA, FORTRESS CAFE!, G5, maño, Zigzag, [UPZ] -ZOOM-, [UPZ] DIESEL, ~|DS|~ jazzy, ¦Ö¦Legit, «¦BTT¦V£¢Ð¥»       CT *** Crazy Tronners Wild Mayhem: No online players. *** Crazy Tronners Wild Catfight: No online players. *** Crazy Tronners Wild Dogfight: No online players. *** (1 more message)
21:17 <P4> .speed
21:17 <crazy-tronner> No idea, P4.
21:17 <P4> .serv speeders
21:17 <crazy-tronner> P4: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “speeders” at the moment, sorry.
21:18 -!- P4 is now known as CT|P4
21:19 <CT|P4> .lastseen zac
21:19 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: zac seems to be on  ~*SpeederS*~ Server right now.
21:19 <CT|P4> .serv ~*SpeederS*~ Server
21:19 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: ~*SpeederS*~ Server: Players (5/12): OU SoONer, Showerguy, x-célia-x, zac, Zelos
21:19 <CT|P4> .alias add speed "serv ~*SpeederS*~ Server"
21:19 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: The operation succeeded.
21:19 <CT|P4> .alias lock speed
21:19 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: The operation succeeded.
21:26 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Távozom"]
21:35 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu83w-156034251132.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
21:36 <ghableska> hi, Vanhayes
21:37 <Vanhayes> hello
21:44 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #armagetron
21:51 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@m198214186130.austincc.edu] has joined #armagetron
21:57 <epsy> .?
21:57 <crazy-tronner> epsy: .., ?, action, add, addhandler, alert, announce, any, aol, apply, apropos, armaconfig, armalize, at, author, babelize, ban add, ban list, ban remove, base, binary, bold, bug, bugs, c, calc, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, capitalize, cats, cfg, change, changename, channel, channels, channelstats, chr, cmd, (5 more messages)
21:57 <epsy> ...
21:57 <crazy-tronner> epsy, ...
21:57 <epsy> spam
21:58 <epsy> it's like some other bomb in supybots
22:02 <CT|P4> i've locked it
22:02 <CT|P4> s there any NOP command in su[ybot?
22:03 <epsy> try doing .echo $channel
22:05 <mkzelda> anyone good w/ sed/grep that knows how to pull each comma delimited item out of a list like "The Republic, Trade, Engineering, Democracy, Railroad, Explosives, Automobile" or if it helps, each item also has "" around it
22:07 <CT|P4>  .echo $channel
22:07 <CT|P4> .echo $channel
22:07 <crazy-tronner> #armagetron
22:08 <CT|P4> NOP should work like nothing happens
22:09 <mkzelda> i already have a loop w/ an incremental variable so you dont have to rewrite that for my benefit
22:10 <luke-jr_work> .alias add tester echo [tester]
22:10 <crazy-tronner> The operation succeeded.
22:11 <luke-jr_work> .alias add tester echo "[tester]"
22:11 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_work: The operation succeeded.
22:11 <luke-jr_work> .tester
22:11 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_work: Error: You've attempted more nesting than is currently allowed on this bot.
22:11 <crazy-tronner> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
22:11  * luke-jr_work ponders
22:11 <mkzelda> luke-jr_: know how to use sed/grep in an incremental variable to pull individual comma delimited items out of a single line list?
22:11 <mkzelda> er, in a loop w/ incremental var
22:12 <mkzelda> my list is The Republic, Trade, Engineering, Democracy, Railroad, Explosives, Automobile
22:12 <mkzelda> or "The Republic", "Trade", "Engineering", "Democracy", "Railroad", "Explosives", "Automobile" ... if thats easier
22:14 <CT|P4> luke-jr_work: what's wrong?
22:14 <CT|P4> .list alias
22:14 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: .., ?, add, armaconfig, armalize, c, cats, cfg, ct, ctwf, czesc, dogs, ladle, lastseen, lock, mayhem, olej, opme, players, rain, remove, serv, serverdetails, speed, st, sty, t, tea, tester, tyskie, unlock, and whoisp4
22:14 <CT|P4> .help tester
22:14 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: (tester <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo [tester]".
22:14 <CT|P4> lol
22:14 <CT|P4> .alias remove tester
22:14 <crazy-tronner> CT|P4: The operation succeeded.
22:16 <mkzelda> i just need to figure out how to scan by fields instead of lines
22:19 <luke-jr_work> mkzelda: ???
22:19 <luke-jr_work> sed ',' '\n'
22:19 <luke-jr_work> err
22:19 <luke-jr_work> tr ',' '\n'
22:24 <mkzelda> ty, close enuf
22:26 <luke-jr_work> :p
22:30 <mkzelda> that wont work in my loop, b/c that gives me all the results every loop
22:31 <mkzelda> but then if i dont loop it i cant get the prefix and sufix
22:31 <mkzelda> i dont need \n i need to delete all other fields
22:32 <luke-jr_work> O.o
22:32 <luke-jr_work> all fields except what?
22:33 <mkzelda> i need the first field as a single result, then the second, then the third
22:33 <mkzelda> as my $var++ in the loop
22:34 <mkzelda> i could use your command to create a line list and then sed per lines in a loop
22:34 <luke-jr_work> ...
22:34 <crazy-tronner> luke-jr_work, ...
22:34 <mkzelda> heh
22:35 <mkzelda> thats nasty tho cause i created a 1-line list from a non-consistent single or multi-line list already
22:36 <luke-jr_work> your problem makes no sense
22:36 <luke-jr_work> tr ',' '\n' splits a single comma-delimited line into one item per line
22:36 <luke-jr_work> which afaics is exactly what you're asking for
22:37 <mkzelda> yea, cept i only want one of the results at a time
22:37 <mkzelda> i can do it w/ sed, the problem is the # of fields is inconsistent
22:38 <mkzelda> its fine ill figure it out
22:38 <mkzelda> thx
22:41 <Vanhayes> >tea
22:41 <Vanhayes> .tea
22:41 <crazy-tronner> Vanhayes: Fortress Café: No online players.
22:42 -!- digitx [n=digitx@catv-56653686.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Távozom"]
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: hey, can you give this new spidey guy the title "King of Smegheads"?
22:50 <epsy> lol
22:54 -!- CT|P4 is now known as P4
22:59 -!- _Sticky_ [n=Sticky@80-41-29-115.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #armagetron
23:19 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-182-238.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:22 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=SuPeRTaR@71.145.158.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:30 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: i'll have to pass on that for now
23:34 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:45 <guru3> i've got a better title for him
23:45 <guru3> 'Giant TIT'
23:45 <guru3> but i can't write that on the forums
23:46 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["nacht :)"]
23:53 -!- Lucifer_bed [n=satan@adsl-68-93-135-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:54 <guru3> fear not, i have come up with a suitalble rank

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