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Log from 2006-11-04:
--- Day changed Sat Nov 04 2006
00:00 <guru3> right now i really want to block my computers from picking up an ipv6 address from the radvd that's running on the network
00:00 <luke-jr_work> so do it
00:00 <guru3> ive not no clue what protocol it is
00:01 <luke-jr_work> ipv6-route?
00:01 <luke-jr_work> maybe
00:02 <luke-jr_work> nope
00:03 <guru3> running ethereal on it
00:03 <guru3> maybe i'll get lucky & find it
00:03 <luke-jr_work> 17:03:46.981049 IP6 fe80::2b0:d0ff:fe25:d2d4 > ip6-allnodes: ICMP6, router advertisement, length 88
00:04 <guru3> maybe i should just block all ipv6 traffic in the forward table
00:04 <guru3> (of ip6tables)
00:05 <luke-jr_work> eck
00:05 <luke-jr_work> why?
00:05 <guru3> don't think i'll be doing any ipv6 across the uni lan
00:05 <guru3> as they don't have routing for it
00:06 <luke-jr_work> bug em
00:06 <luke-jr_work> what's his IP?
00:07 <luke-jr_work> the one advertising
00:07 <guru3> only know the link local ipv6...
00:07 <luke-jr_work> yeah
00:07 <luke-jr_work> that
00:09 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -I INPUT -p icmpv6 --icmpv6-type router-advertisement --source fe80:... -j DROP
00:09 <guru3> what's the diff between -A and -I again?
00:10 <GodTodd> -7
00:10 <luke-jr_work> -I inserts at the top
00:10 <luke-jr_work> -A appends to the bottom
00:10 <guru3> how can you delete a rule that's like in the middle?
00:10 <luke-jr_work> -D
00:10 <guru3> any args?
00:10 <luke-jr_work> the rule
00:10 <luke-jr_work> -F will wipe em all
00:11 <luke-jr_work> BTW, unless your computer is a router itself, FORWARD is never used
00:11 <guru3> ive got a comp between me and the uni network
00:11 <guru3> it's bridging eth0-2
00:11 <guru3> for lan, wifi, and wan
00:11 <guru3> so forward table is used there
00:11 <luke-jr_work> o
00:12 <luke-jr_work> ethX is lame
00:12 <luke-jr_work> I call my network interface 'lan', 'wifi', and 'wan' :)
00:12 <guru3> smart allack ><
00:12 <guru3> im hard core and memorize which is which
00:13 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_work: do your name your hard drive partitions too?
00:13 <wrtlprnft> *do you rename
00:13 <luke-jr_work> guru3, that might be smart, if it wasn't for the fact that they can change every reboot
00:13 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, no, they don't change ;p
00:14 <guru3> muahahaha that's true
00:14 <wrtlprnft> /dev/old_hd_partition_with_some_unimportant_stuff
00:14 <guru3> but that tends to be nly if i change the hardware
00:14 <luke-jr_work> guru3, or change the kernel
00:14 <wrtlprnft> mine don't change, luckily
00:14 <luke-jr_work> hmm
00:14 <luke-jr_work> I *should* name HDs
00:14 <luke-jr_work> based on serial #
00:14 <luke-jr_work> that way it would detect when I change them around
00:14 <wrtlprnft> yeah
00:15 <guru3> geh
00:15 <luke-jr_work> would only work for the removable ones tho
00:15 <wrtlprnft> because /dev/hd1265023672 is easier to remember than /dev/hada
00:15 <wrtlprnft> because /dev/hd1265023672 is easier to remember than /dev/hda
00:15 <luke-jr_work> no, dummy
00:15 <luke-jr_work> the udev rule has the serial #
00:15 <luke-jr_work> not the device
00:16 <wrtlprnft> ah
00:16 <luke-jr_work> so I plug in old_hd_with_useless_crap, it gets named that
00:16 <luke-jr_work> if I unplug that and put in another HD, I get it named /dev/anime_hd
00:16 <luke-jr_work> =p
00:16 <guru3> looks like that rule works luke
00:16 <guru3> thanks
00:18 <guru3> gonna just try blocking all external ipv6 traffic
00:20 <guru3> ip6tables -A FORWARD -m physdev --physdev-in eht2 --physdev-out eth2 -j DROP
00:20 <guru3> ip6tables -A INPUT -m physdev --physdev-in eht2 --physdev-out eth2 -j DROP
00:20 <guru3> that ought to do it yeah?
00:21 <luke-jr_work> why not
00:21 <guru3> see if radvdump still picks shit up
00:22 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -t raw -I PREROUTING -j DROP
00:22 <luke-jr_work> more efficient to do it there
00:22 <luke-jr_work> err
00:22 <luke-jr_work> better yet
00:22 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -t raw -P PREROUTING DROP
00:22 <guru3> except
00:22 <guru3> i still want eth0 and eth1 to be able to ipv6-ify
00:23 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -t raw -i eth2 -o eth2 -P PREROUTING DROP
00:23 <luke-jr_work> :)
00:23 <guru3> dshite
00:23 <guru3> *shite
00:23 <guru3> i still got a router advertisement
00:24 <luke-jr_work> err
00:24 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -t raw -i eth2 -P PREROUTING DROP
00:24 <luke-jr_work> crap
00:24 <luke-jr_work> um
00:24 <luke-jr_work> ip6tables -t raw -I PREROUTING -i eth2 DROP
00:24 <luke-jr_work> there
00:24 <luke-jr_work> that should do it
00:25 <guru3> need a -j in there?
00:25 <luke-jr_work> yes
00:25 <luke-jr_work> :)
00:25 <luke-jr_work> (before DROP)
00:25 <guru3> i sort of like the look of ip6tables -t raw -i eth2 -o eth2 PREROUTING DROP
00:25 <guru3> altho i think that needs a -j as well
00:25 <luke-jr_work> that won't work
00:25 <guru3> why?
00:26 <luke-jr_work> 1) it matches packets going BOTH from eth2 and to eth2
00:26 <luke-jr_work> eg, both need to be true
00:26 <luke-jr_work> it's AND nor OR
00:26 <guru3> hmm
00:26 <luke-jr_work> 2) PREROUTING only knows source interface
00:26 <luke-jr_work> it hasn't been routed yet =p
00:26 <guru3> i see
00:26 <luke-jr_work> so no output interface is known
00:26 <guru3> my -m physdev --physdev blah
00:27 <guru3> that one needed to match both didn't it?
00:27 <luke-jr_work> but if there's no assigned IPv6 on eth2, I see no reason there'd be anything outgoing
00:27 <luke-jr_work> physdev is for bridges
00:27 <guru3> it is a bridge...
00:27 <luke-jr_work> erm
00:27 <luke-jr_work> then it should be called br0
00:27 <luke-jr_work> not eth2
00:27 <Your_mom_arma> bridges are for rivers
00:27 <luke-jr_work> o
00:28 <luke-jr_work> I see
00:28 <guru3> ill try the lines i had before but seperating --physdev-in and --physdev-out
00:29 <guru3> but ok, iptables -p udp --dport 67:68 --sport 67:68 -j ACCEPT
00:29 <guru3> (-A FORWARD that is)
00:29 <guru3> that lets any and all udp port 67 or 68 traffic thru
00:29 <guru3> right?
00:30 <luke-jr_work> assuming both dport and sport are 67/68
00:30 <luke-jr_work> which isn't very common
00:30 <luke-jr_work> also assuming there isn't an earlier rule blocking it
00:30 <guru3> so it matches 67 to 67, 67 to 68, 68 to 67, and 68 to 68
00:30 <luke-jr_work> right
00:30 <luke-jr_work> but only root can use those ports
00:31 <luke-jr_work> so it'd be a root-to-root connection
00:31 <guru3> it's dhcpc
00:31 <luke-jr_work> o
00:31 <guru3> -c
00:31 <luke-jr_work> why are you blocking IPv4 traffic? =p
00:31 <guru3> im doing connection tracking
00:31 <luke-jr_work> so?
00:31 <guru3> and blocking unwanted inbound tcp connections from the inet
00:31 <luke-jr_work> that's easy
00:31 <guru3> -m state --state NEW,INVALD -j DROP
00:32 <guru3> but for some reason that rule was catching dhcp requests
00:32 <luke-jr_work> makes sense
00:32 <luke-jr_work> I see
00:32 <guru3> but when you have like 67:68
00:32 <luke-jr_work> um
00:32 <guru3> that's like "port 67 or 68"
00:32 <luke-jr_work> that DROP matches the interface too, right?
00:32 <guru3> yeah
00:32 <guru3> just saving on typing
00:32 <luke-jr_work> heh
00:32 <luke-jr_work> ok
00:33 <guru3> 67:68 = 67 or 68
00:33 <luke-jr_work> 67 to 68 ;p
00:33 <guru3> i thought - was to
00:33 <luke-jr_work> - is invalid
00:33 <guru3> "oh my"
00:34 <guru3> ok
00:34 <guru3> so 22:80 would be 22 to 80
00:34 <guru3> and -m tcp is the same as -p tcp yeah?
00:34 <luke-jr_work> right, and wrong
00:35 <luke-jr_work> -m tcp only loads it, doesn't match it
00:35 <guru3> so -m tcp --protcol tcp = -p tcp
00:35 <luke-jr_work> I think -m tcp would be undefined by itself
00:35 <luke-jr_work> -p tcp implies -m tcp
00:35 <guru3> ok
00:35 <guru3> so then if you have two -ms
00:36 <guru3> like -m tcp (implied by -p tcp) and -m physdev --phy..blah
00:36 <guru3> that has to match both those
00:36 <luke-jr_work> -m loads a module
00:36 <luke-jr_work> it doesn't match anything
00:36 <guru3> ah
00:36 <guru3> everything in a rule has to match
00:36 <luke-jr_work> right
00:36 <guru3> if you have --physdev-in and --dport
00:36 <guru3> both match or nothing happens
00:37 <luke-jr_work> yep
00:37 <guru3> didn't know about that
00:37 <luke-jr_work> note netfilter and iptables support functions
00:37 <luke-jr_work> so you could match --physdev-in and -j to your function
00:37 <luke-jr_work> and then match the rest there
00:37 <guru3> too complicated ><
00:37 <luke-jr_work> nah
00:38 <luke-jr_work> simpler
00:38 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know why mplayer doesn't want to be emerged without the esd USE flag?
00:38 <luke-jr_work> better than repeating --physdev-in lots
00:38 <guru3> next time i level up my iptables knowledge
00:38 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, explain
00:38 <wrtlprnft> i set media-video/mplayer -esd in package.use
00:38 <wrtlprnft> but it still wants to compile with esd
00:39 <wrtlprnft> and esd itself fails to compile
00:39 <luke-jr_work> probably have multiple mplayer elements in package.use
00:39 <luke-jr_work> only one is allowed
00:39 <wrtlprnft> but i don't need esd so i wanna get rid of them all
00:39 <luke-jr_work> why not USE=-esd in make.conf?
00:39 <wrtlprnft> no, package.use has 4 lines
00:39 <luke-jr_work> esd is a global USE flag
00:39 <wrtlprnft> and only one mplayer one
00:39 <wrtlprnft> and i set USE=-esd too
00:39 <luke-jr_work> emerge -vp mplayer
00:39 <wrtlprnft> USE="-gtk -gnome -qt -kde -dvd -alsa -cdr -cups -X unicode nptl nptlonly -arts -esd"
00:40 <wrtlprnft> why isn't there a -allthatdesktopcraf USE flag?
00:40 <wrtlprnft> *allthatdesktopcrap
00:40 <guru3> -*
00:40 <luke-jr_work> USE flags don't support grouping? =p
00:40 <wrtlprnft> x_X
00:41 <luke-jr_work> /exec -o emerge -vp mplayer
00:41 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, switch to Utopios when it's done
00:41 <wrtlprnft> argh, duh, I'm stupid
00:41 <DrJoeTron> Your_mom_arma 
00:41 <luke-jr_work> ?
00:41 <wrtlprnft> i used emerge -uDavt world to see what package was responsible for esound
00:42 <DrJoeTron> Your_mom_arma i've got someone who
00:42 <Your_mom_arma> ping
00:42 <DrJoeTron> 's been dying to hear you shred
00:42 <Your_mom_arma> haha
00:42 <wrtlprnft> forgot to change that to emerge -uDavNt world to make it reconsider mplayer, too
00:42 <luke-jr_work> lol
00:42 <wrtlprnft> thanks, anyways
00:43 <guru3> oh yeah thanks for the iptables help luke
00:43 <guru3> i may have more queries later on
00:43 <wrtlprnft> http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=utopios+linux&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
00:43 <wrtlprnft> ag
00:43 <wrtlprnft> *ah
00:43 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
00:43 <wrtlprnft> the first result concerns you
00:43 <wrtlprnft> not you ghableska 
00:43 <wrtlprnft> hi :P
00:44 <ghableska> hi...
00:44 <ghableska> nice way to say hello :P
00:44 <wrtlprnft> well, i had that line typed when you joined
00:44 <ghableska> hehe
00:46 <guru3> link local ipv6
00:47 <guru3> *site local
00:47 <guru3> is the fec0::/96 range right?
00:47 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, ...?
00:48 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, try without "linux"
00:48 <wrtlprnft> umm, well
00:49 <guru3> fec, fed, fee, fef
00:49 <wrtlprnft> i usually use linux as a keyword for any terms that might describe non- computerrelated things, too
00:49 <luke-jr_work> Utopios is unique ;)
00:49 <luke-jr_work> only use outside of the OS is in reference to Debian in a Slashdot post
00:49 <luke-jr_work> and some guy's name on a foreign forum
00:50 <wrtlprnft> *might*
00:50 <luke-jr_work> heh
00:50 <wrtlprnft> well, anyways, what am i gonna gain from this besides not having an official opera ebuild?
00:50 <wrtlprnft> i don't wanna fork any os
00:50 <luke-jr_work> it's not a fork
00:50 <wrtlprnft> i don't need an easy installer
00:50 <wrtlprnft> * Easily Forkable - Gentoo's structure requires significant effort and infrastructure to fork. With the flexibility of Utopios, anyone should be able to easily maintain their own private forks with simple changes (added/overridden packages, etc). This has many possibilities including the ability to maintain customised versions for individual organizations.
00:51 <DrJoeTron> forks!
00:51 <luke-jr_work> Utopios is easily forkable
00:51 <wrtlprnft> spoons!
00:51 <luke-jr_work> Which means you could easily maintain a fork adding Opera
00:51 <wrtlprnft> knives!
00:51 <wrtlprnft> lobster!
00:51 <DrJoeTron> butter!
00:51 <DrJoeTron> >-;;,ccc3
00:51 <luke-jr_work> Utopios itself will maintain multiple repositories of MMD
00:52 <luke-jr_work> so it would even be easy to exclude Utopios branding just by removing certain MMD repos
00:52 <wrtlprnft> still, it would need me to reboot my server, right?
00:52 <guru3> fec0::/10
00:52 <guru3> that's the site local range
00:52 <guru3> right?
00:52 <luke-jr_work> hmm?
00:52 <luke-jr_work> theoretically, a Gentoo migration script would be possible ;p
00:52 <wrtlprnft> grr
00:52 <luke-jr_work> since Utopios's package manager is capable of handling Gentoo ebuilds
00:52 <wrtlprnft> now on my other machine kdejava isn't compiling
00:53 <wrtlprnft> /bin/sh: line 2: -d: command not found
00:53 <luke-jr_work> (as well as native Perl packages from CPAN, etc)
00:53 <wrtlprnft> i still don't see the big gain for me
00:53 <luke-jr_work> so, don't want Utopios branding, you could either BRANDING -= Utopios *or* guarantee a full removal by removing the utopios-branding repository
00:54 <luke-jr_work> well, there'd be featuresets
00:54 <luke-jr_work> so you could do FEATURES -= desktop
00:54 <wrtlprnft> well, but i do want some desktop apps
00:54 <luke-jr_work> so install those
00:54 <wrtlprnft> i do want gvim on it for ssh
00:54 <wrtlprnft> i do want mplayer for sound
00:55 <luke-jr_work> so install gvim/mplayer
00:55 <wrtlprnft> but then, what good is the preset?
00:55 <luke-jr_work> { NAME=="mplayer"; FEATURES+="alsa"; }
00:55 <luke-jr_work> it would work like automatically turning off USE flags
00:56 <wrtlprnft> i don't want alsa nor esd nor jack nor whatever they called
00:56 <wrtlprnft> i don't get their use
00:56 <luke-jr_work> how will mplayer play sound?
00:56 <wrtlprnft> argh
00:56 <luke-jr_work> lol
00:56 <wrtlprnft> sorry, mixed up alsa and arts
00:56 <luke-jr_work> ah!
00:57 <wrtlprnft> arts being what i don't want at all
00:57 <luke-jr_work> arts is evil crap that must die :)
00:57 <wrtlprnft> root@laptop 137 # eselect -h                                                      /home/mathias
00:57 <wrtlprnft> !!! Error: Can't load module -h
00:57 <wrtlprnft> zsh: killed     eselect -h
00:57 <spidey> luke-jr_work, is just crap that must die
00:57 <wrtlprnft> don't all gentoo programs offer nice help screens?
00:57 <luke-jr_work> the MMD and raw package configuration is a format that's based on SQL loosely
00:58 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, --help maybe
00:58 <wrtlprnft> nope, that neither
00:58 <wrtlprnft> using man now
00:58 <luke-jr_work> man
00:58 <luke-jr_work> :)
00:58 <luke-jr_work> based on writing MMD for Psi, I think the format needs some kind of macros ;p
00:58 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_work: it would have been “eselect help” btw
00:58 <luke-jr_work> lol
00:58 <wrtlprnft> nice to know *after* reading the man page
00:59 <luke-jr_work> { FEATURES[] == "PGP"; RDEPEND += ( {{ NAME="gnupg"; }}; ); }
01:00 <luke-jr_work> part of the psi package
01:00 <wrtlprnft> i'd rather like to have pgp support for opera
01:00 <wrtlprnft> but apparently they're working on it
01:00 <luke-jr_work> really?
01:00 <luke-jr_work> for web stuff?
01:01 <luke-jr_work> that would make Opera so tempting...
01:01 <wrtlprnft> no, for email of course
01:02 <wrtlprnft> for web stuff you have https and logins if you need it
01:02 <wrtlprnft> emails are inherently insecure
01:03 <[Xpert]DarkStar> night all
01:03 <[Xpert]DarkStar> i'm off to sleep
01:03 <[Xpert]DarkStar> cu
01:04 <wrtlprnft> btw i think trying not to bother a user with technical software details, but then bothering him/her with legal bs is kind of counterproductive
01:04 <luke-jr_work> https and logins don't protect the user from a bad site
01:05 <luke-jr_work> you need to trust the site you're logging into
01:05 <wrtlprnft> umm, there's ssl certificates
01:05 <luke-jr_work> SSL certs only guarantee the remote site is who they claim to be
01:05 <luke-jr_work> and then, not even all the time
01:05 <wrtlprnft> you need to initially trust the pgp key owner too
01:05 <luke-jr_work> not if you own the key
01:05 <luke-jr_work> and it's being used to ID you
01:06 <luke-jr_work> I'm thinking for logins
01:06 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_work: but if you know the cerificate once you can be sure it's the same guy in the future
01:06 <luke-jr_work> the website gives <input type="pgp-check" value="some random code"/>
01:06 <luke-jr_work> and the user's browser lets them sign it with their key
01:06 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, same guy sure, but what if I don't trust that guy with my login info>
01:06 <luke-jr_work> ?
01:06 <ghableska> #weather 50265]
01:06 <armabot> ghableska: Error: Spurious "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
01:06 <wrtlprnft> just make another login?
01:06 <ghableska> #weather 50265
01:07 <wrtlprnft> another set of password/username
01:07 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 46.4°F (5:54 PM CST on November 03, 2006). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 21.2°F. Windchill: 41.0°F. Pressure: 30.19 in 1022 hPa. 
01:07 <luke-jr_work> the login needs to work across multiple websites
01:07 <luke-jr_work> including ones I do trust
01:07 <luke-jr_work> and ones I don't
01:07 <wrtlprnft> you know there's stuff like msn passport and crap like that?
01:07 <wrtlprnft> that's basically doing the same
01:07 <luke-jr_work> that's no more secure
01:07 <wrtlprnft> not that i like it
01:07 <luke-jr_work> MSN Passport is easily spoofed
01:07 <luke-jr_work> the other crap just offloads the authentication to email
01:08 <luke-jr_work> keys in the browser are the only real solution
01:08 <wrtlprnft> anyways, i do see the use of it, but it's very hypothetical
01:08 <guru3> what package in gentoo has the /etc/init.d/net.lo script?
01:08 <luke-jr_work> baselayout I bet
01:08 <wrtlprnft> it would require some well-known browser to adapt it to be used
01:08 <wrtlprnft> baselayout, yes
01:08 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, or plugins for such
01:08 <wrtlprnft> can't rely on plugins, really
01:08 <Vanhayes> #armaconfig respawn
01:08 <armabot> Vanhayes: Sorry, no matches :S
01:09 <wrtlprnft> i don't have the RESPAWN_HACK enabled
01:09 <Vanhayes> ah, ok
01:09 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, no?
01:09 <guru3> thnx\
01:09 <luke-jr_work> a lot harder to spoof
01:10 <luke-jr_work> Mozilla's PGP mail support is via plugins
01:10 <wrtlprnft> but it's mail. checking a key is some additional check you can skip if you like
01:11 <wrtlprnft> and you can only send encrypted mails if you know the other guy's public key, so you know he has PGP
01:11 <luke-jr_work> you assume it's verified only on the server
01:11 <luke-jr_work> take a forum for example
01:11 <luke-jr_work> you sign each post
01:11 <luke-jr_work> the post includes a hidden element with the signature
01:11 <luke-jr_work> the reader's browser verifies it
01:11 <wrtlprnft> why not just include the key in the post
01:11 <wrtlprnft> ?
01:11 <luke-jr_work> the server could be untrusted
01:11 <luke-jr_work> to hide it from browsers w/o support
01:11 <wrtlprnft> just run the post's content through pgp to sign it
01:12 <luke-jr_work> not easy enough for regular users
01:12 <wrtlprnft> of course you wouldn't give the server your private key
01:12 <luke-jr_work> the site I use for gold uses manual PGP authentication
01:12 <luke-jr_work> I need to go home....
01:12 <wrtlprnft> anyways, write a ff extension to do that and shut up about it
01:12 <wrtlprnft> cya
01:12 <wrtlprnft> i need to go to bed
01:12 <wrtlprnft> #night
01:12 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
01:12 <Your_mom_arma> cya?
01:13 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, maybe if I cared for FF
01:13 <ghableska> cya wrtlprnft
01:13  * wrtlprnft doesn't care for it
01:13 <luke-jr_work> wrtlprnft, does Opera support plugins?
01:13 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_work: plugins yes, extensions no
01:13 <luke-jr_work> the diff?
01:14 <wrtlprnft> they do have some reasoning for not supporting extensions
01:14 <luke-jr_work> the difference being?
01:14 <wrtlprnft> plugins = acrobat reader, flash, mplayer, stuff like that
01:14 <luke-jr_work> so... <objects> only
01:14 <wrtlprnft> extension = something that has acess to the chrome and everything
01:14 <luke-jr_work> oh
01:14 <wrtlprnft> *access
01:15 <wrtlprnft> plugins can only read the content they're associated with and only display in that area
01:15 <luke-jr_work> well, if I make up a design plan, would you be willing to look into Opera support?
01:15 <wrtlprnft> well, it would be impossible pretty much
01:15 <luke-jr_work> maybe, maybe not
01:15 <luke-jr_work> bbiab
01:15 <wrtlprnft> you *could* hack the spellchecker
01:15 <luke-jr_work> lol
01:15 -!- luke-jr_work [n=luke-jr@adsl-70-128-250-253.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:15 <wrtlprnft> it uses aspell
01:16 <wrtlprnft> so you could change that to really add a pgp signature
01:17 <Your_mom_arma> who broke lucifers internet?
01:20 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/wikiconnect.png ← note the time at the bottom
01:20 <wrtlprnft> though that's a result of previous connection attempts, it would probably fix itself if i just restarted opera
01:21 <wrtlprnft> anyways, now i'll really go to bed
01:23 <Vanhayes> Your_mom_arma: I did, I was jealous of its supiority
01:23 <Your_mom_arma> makes sence to me
01:23 <ghableska> wrtlprnft: pretty
01:24 <Your_mom_arma> luci isnt in irc so his internet connections probobly acting up
01:27 <DrJoeTron> that kid is weird
01:28 <Your_mom_arma> hey i get on teamspeak with a voice changer because im 14
01:28 <Your_mom_arma> really? i couldnt tell
01:28 <Your_mom_arma> i need a louder amp
01:29 <DrJoeTron> haha
01:30 <guru3> afk
01:30 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["-"]
01:37 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@a0204.upc-a.chello.nl] has left #armagetron []
01:45 <Vanhayes> #ping
01:45 <armabot> pong
01:45 <ghableska> #pong
01:45 <armabot> ping
01:46 <ghableska> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=10299 <-- ouch
02:00 -!- manta [n=kim@host-69-59-72-81.nctv.com] has joined #armagetron
02:01 <Vanhayes> luke-jr_: ping
02:03 <manta> pong
02:03 <manta> 2 minutes, not bad :)
02:04 <spidey> lol
02:13 <spidey> i just realized something
02:13 <spidey> they fucked up my billing thingy for the soldat server
02:13 <spidey> Amount: $0.00 Total Paid: $0.00 Total Due: $0.00
02:14 <spidey> #cnn 38256
02:14 <armabot> spidey: The current temperature in Paris, TN is 43.0°F. Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 48%. Wind: ESE at 2 mph (3 km/h).
02:14 <Vanhayes> #weather Saint John
02:14 <armabot> Vanhayes: Temperature: 32°F / 0°C | Humidity: 75% | Pressure: 30.16in / 1021hPa | Conditions: Clear | Wind Direction: West | Wind Speed: 5mph / 7km/h | Updated: 9:00 PM AST; Tonight - Cloudy periods. 40 percent chance of rain showers or wet flurries early this evening. Fog patches overnight. Wind northwest 20 km/h gusting to 40 becoming light this evening. Low minus 5.; Saturday - Sunny. Wind becoming west 20 km/h (1 more message)
02:14 <Vanhayes> snowed here today
02:14 <Vanhayes> first snow of the year
02:20 <ghableska> how much snow?
02:21 <Vanhayes> about 5 minutes of light flurries worth :)
02:21 <Vanhayes> none stayed on the ground but its nice to see it
02:21 <ghableska> haha
02:22 <ghableska> #weather 50265
02:22 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 44.6°F (6:54 PM CST on November 03, 2006). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 39%. Dew Point: 21.2°F. Windchill: 39.2°F. Pressure: 30.19 in 1022 hPa. 
02:22 <ghableska> #cnn 50265
02:22 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in West Des Moines, IA is 47.0°F. Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 35%. Wind: SE at 10 mph (16 km/h).
02:22 <ghableska> I never know which one to believe :P
02:23 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@ppp-70-253-192-111.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> can anybody hit the wiki?
02:23 <guru3> all my comps are coming up with proper ip configs now at last
02:23 <ghableska> works fine for me
02:23 <ghableska> there are ads now?
02:24 <guru3> wiki loads
02:24 <guru3> i just wish the adds were about 150 pixels thinner
02:27 <Lucifer_arma> heh
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> the choice is a large ad or a small ad, there aren't really medium ad choices :/
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> we need to not change them often in order to collect good data, though.  So maybe this time next week try a different size
02:28 <Lucifer_arma> then a week or so later, try adding a smaller ad to the bottom, that sort of thing
02:30 <Vanhayes> what are you trying to do?
02:30 <spidey> #g 2006 - 1956
02:30 <armabot> spidey: 2,006 - 1,956 = 50
02:30 <spidey> tom hanks is old o.O
02:30 <Vanhayes> my dads older
02:30 <Your_mom_arma> is it based on wiki hits or people who actually follow the link?
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> Vanhayes: determine if having ads on the wiki will actually be helpful to us
02:30 <Lucifer_arma> clicks, you have to click the ad for it to make any money
02:31 <spidey> you know you can fake those..
02:31 <spidey> cycle proxies
02:31 <Your_mom_arma> should i go click a bunch?
02:31 <spidey> xD
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, you shouldn't :)
02:31 <ghableska> *click*
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> we need accurate numbers, not artificially inflated numbers
02:31 <Your_mom_arma> ok
02:31 <manta> what about all the people who programed their gateway boxes to filter out adds?
02:31 <Lucifer_arma> if the numbers look good and we keep ads, then yeah, you should go click a bunch :)
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> manta: doesn't matter to me.  People can avoid looking at them any way they want, I want to see what a realistic income from the wiki would look like,
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> and if it's high enough (I still need to quantify "high enough"), then I can justify putting money up front to put into real hardware for it
02:33 <Lucifer_arma> and then we'll be able to do regular upgrades, updates, and maintenance stuff that I"m currently footing the bill for on my own (which means there haven't been any)
02:34 <manta> well it certainly would be a good thing
02:34 <manta> we all know how hard you work
02:35 <Vanhayes> I don't
02:35 <Vanhayes> then again im pretty unobservant
02:35 <Vanhayes> hmm
02:35 <Vanhayes> #check unobservent
02:35 <armabot> Vanhayes: No spelling suggestion made.  This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
02:36 <Vanhayes> Is unobservant a word, or did I make it up?
02:36 <spidey> #dict unobservant
02:36 <Your_mom_arma>  #dict
02:36 <armabot> spidey: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: gcide: Unobservant \Unobservant\ See {observant}; wn: unobservant adj 1: not consciously observing; "looked through him with blank unseeing eyes" [syn: {unseeing}] 2: not paying attention [syn: {inattentive}, {unvigilant}, {unwatchful}]; moby-thes: 34 Moby Thesaurus words for "unobservant": careless, disregardant, disregardful, distracted, distrait, heedless, (1 more message)
02:36 <spidey> #dict unobservent
02:36 <armabot> spidey: No definition for "unobservent" could be found.
02:36 <spidey> =p
02:36 <Vanhayes> #check unobservant
02:37 <armabot> Vanhayes: No spelling suggestion made.  This could mean that the word you gave is spelled right; it could also mean that its spelling was too whacked out even for Google to figure out.
02:37 <manta> unobservant
02:37 <manta> adj 1: not consciously observing; "looked through him with blank unseeing eyes" [syn: unseeing] 2: not paying attention [syn: inattentive, unvigilant, unwatchful]
02:37 <Vanhayes> Well thats good to know, I sometimes make words up that sound right to me but dont look right
02:38 <Vanhayes> #dict Impostering
02:38 <armabot> Vanhayes: No definition for "Impostering" could be found.
02:38 <Vanhayes> ya...
02:38 -!- complexity [n=complexi@bb-66-63-118-224.gwi.net] has joined #armagetron
02:38 <complexity> how can i get someones user id if they are using unicode in there name?
02:38 <DrJoeTron>  hi.
02:39 <Your_mom_arma> #lastseen complexity
02:39 <DrJoeTron> did you ever think of typing /players
02:39 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: timed out
02:39 <DrJoeTron> #lastseen Dr Joe Tron
02:39 <armabot> DrJoeTron: Dr Joe Tron has last been seen on The Lobster Cage 0 days 1 hours 6 minutes ago.
02:39 <ghableska> #lastseen ghableska
02:39 <armabot> ghableska: ghableska has last been seen on 2020 team challenge 57 minutes ago.
02:40 <Vanhayes> #lastseen lastseen
02:40 <Vanhayes> time out
02:40 <armabot> Vanhayes: timed out
02:40 <manta> #lastseen manta
02:40 <armabot> manta: (WS)Manta has last been seen on 2020 team challenge 49 minutes ago.
02:40 <DrJoeTron> #lastseen vangaynus
02:40 <Vanhayes> lol
02:40 <armabot> DrJoeTron: timed out
02:40 <DrJoeTron> :D
02:42 <Vanhayes> #armaservers
02:42 <armabot> Vanhayes: ~"XzL.Clan The Server (9 players) || Swampland in 2.7.1 (8 players) || ¬ | D u r k a D u r k a L a n d | ¬/xff9900 (8 players) || Strawberry Fields (5 players) || Tigers Network Classic Play (4 players) || -=}ID< Immortal Dynasty Server (4 players) || Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress (4 players) || -=:[Welknown Server]:=- (3 players) || The Lobster Cage (3 players) || ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's (1 more message)
02:43 <ghableska> #lastseen vangaynus
02:43 <armabot> ghableska: vangaynus seems to be on icemans network nuke zone - www.icemans.net right now.
02:43 <guru3> off to bed
02:43 <guru3> good night
02:44 <ghableska> cya
02:44 <Vanhayes> night
02:46 <DrJoeTron> hagha
02:47 -!- complexity [n=complexi@bb-66-63-118-224.gwi.net] has quit ["leaving"]
02:48 <DrJoeTron> you're welcome complexity
02:50 <DrJoeTron> Your_mom_arma
02:50 <DrJoeTron> what do you use for camera settings
02:50 <DrJoeTron> i remember you telling me it but i dont remember it
02:50 <DrJoeTron> because im sick of the 2.8.2 camera
02:50 <Your_mom_arma> its on the wiki somewhere
02:50 <DrJoeTron> heh ok
02:57 <ghableska> #google vangaynus
02:57 <armabot> ghableska: Search took 0.08 seconds: Armagetron Forums :: View topic - Has my attitude improved?: <http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=96991>
02:57 <Vanhayes> Ha
02:57 <Vanhayes> I remember that
02:59 <Vanhayes> luke-jr_: ping
03:16 <DrJoeTron> majination sure dissapeared
03:19 <Your_mom_arma> well yeah?
03:20 <DrJoeTron> :/
03:20 <DrJoeTron> ok so im stating the obvious
03:21 <DrJoeTron> what else is new
03:21 <Your_mom_arma> well i wasnt sure if that was some kind of sarcasm saying he hadnt really
03:22 <DrJoeTron> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDI_spL0HQ what the christ, its dolphin boy
03:26 <ghableska> interesting
03:27 <Your_mom_arma> cool
03:52 <DrJoeTron> man i wanna get sam & max
03:52 <luke-jr_> ...
03:52 <luke-jr_> Vanhayes: 
03:57 <spidey> STFU
03:57 <spidey> -caps
03:57 <ghableska> O_o
03:57 <spidey> DrJoeTron, defcon? =p
03:57 <spidey> stfu was at luke-jr_ 
03:57 <spidey> =p
04:11 <luke-jr_> stfu spidey 
04:11 <spidey> you stfu
04:11  * ghableska yawns
04:11 <spidey> to lazy to even spell it out
04:11 <spidey> xD
04:12 <luke-jr_> stfu spidey 
04:12 <spidey> die
04:12 <luke-jr_> stfu spidey 
04:12 <spidey> /ignore luke-jr_ 
04:12 <luke-jr_> stfu spidey 
04:12 <ghableska> now now, children... :P
04:13 <luke-jr_> stfu spidey 
04:14 <spidey>  *!*@CPE-24-31-245-218.kc.res.rr.com added to ignore list.
04:14 <spidey> perfect
04:14  * luke-jr_ reconnects w/ diff IP
04:16 -!- luke-jr_ [n=luke-jr@CPE-24-31-245-218.kc.res.rr.com] has left #armagetron ["Leaving"]
04:16 -!- luke-jr__ [n=luke-jr@2002:1891:f657:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d] has joined #armagetron
04:16 <spidey> gay
04:16 <spidey> i can ignore that mask to =p
04:16 <luke-jr__> lol
04:17  * luke-jr__ /ignores only spidey's /notices
04:17 <spidey> rofl!!
04:17 <spidey> =(
04:17 <spidey> would be if you where in a game
04:18 <spidey> xD
04:18 <luke-jr__> nah
04:18 <spidey> lol
04:18 <luke-jr__> all it does is show a - instead of <>
04:18 <luke-jr__> big deal
04:18 <spidey> no bubbles?
04:18 <spidey> =(
04:18 <ghableska> #weather 50265
04:18 <luke-jr__> lol
04:18 <armabot> ghableska: The current temperature in Des Moines, Iowa is 46.4°F (8:54 PM CST on November 03, 2006). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 40%. Dew Point: 23.0°F. Windchill: 41.0°F. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa. 
04:18 <luke-jr__> baka
04:18 <luke-jr__> it's just /notice
04:18 <spidey> mine shows a >< instead of a -
04:18 <luke-jr__> ...
04:19 <luke-jr__> anyhow
04:19 <spidey> >luke-jr__< i bet this is annoying
04:19 <luke-jr__> that's a send
04:19 <luke-jr__> dummy
04:19 <luke-jr__> anyhow
04:19 <luke-jr__> my wife vetoed tonight's civ
04:19 <luke-jr__> prolly tomorrow's too :|
04:19 <luke-jr__> so anyway
04:19 <luke-jr__> time to go take her to bed :D
04:19 <luke-jr__> 'night
04:21 <ghableska> cya
04:21  * spidey drop kicks ghableska 
04:23 <ghableska> er, no?
04:27 <spidey> er,yes
04:27 <GodTodd> hrmm...the day my wife tells me when to go to bed i'll officially give up my balls and my rights to call myself a man
04:27 <spidey> he's whipped
04:27 <spidey> remember...push over
04:27 <spidey> =p
04:28 <GodTodd> heh...you *assume* i was talking about someone specific....could be just a general statement ;)
04:29 <spidey> we know you was talking about luke-jr__ =p
04:29 <GodTodd> on my lawyer's advice i will neither confirm nor deny that observation
04:29 <spidey> lol
04:35 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: spidey: civ?
04:38 <spidey> after the night i had last night
04:38 <spidey> i'll be lucky to stay awake 1 more hour
04:51 <Lucifer_arma> spidey asked to wait until saturday
04:52 <Lucifer_arma> when my wife orders me to bed I expect sex
04:56 <Lucifer_arma> if I don't get it, I get back up
05:01 <GodTodd> haha
05:01 <GodTodd> same here
05:10 <ghableska> #night
05:10 <armabot> Good night ghableska!
05:10 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has left #Armagetron []
05:15 -!- Fonkay [i=Fonkay@blk-89-218-73.eastlink.ca] has joined #armagetron
05:15 <Fonkay> hello crazys
05:17 -!- manta [n=kim@host-69-59-72-81.nctv.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:18 <Vanhayes> well if we are all crazy wouldnt that make crazy the norm, thus making you the crazy one?
05:19 <Vanhayes> plus its crazies :)
05:20 <Your_mom_arma> that logic doesnt make anysence, she would be an outcast if we where all crazy and she where sain
05:22 <Vanhayes> well if Im crazy then my logic doesnt really have to make ense
05:23 <Your_mom_arma> i guess thats true
05:23 -!- manta [n=kim@64-118-125-125-as-07.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has joined #armagetron
05:23 <Vanhayes> man, they had a sweet deal down at the bar tonight, a bucket of beer for 8 bucks untill midnight
05:24 <Vanhayes> it was draft but I mean for 8 bucks it was worth it
05:26 <Fonkay> crazies isn't actually a word is it? and if it isn't, then i can spell it any way i like
05:27 <Vanhayes> well I could be making it up, it happens sometimes
05:28 <Vanhayes> #dict Crazies
05:28 <armabot> Vanhayes: No definition for "Crazies" could be found.
05:28 <Vanhayes> guess I made it up
05:28 <Vanhayes> #dict Crazys
05:28 <armabot> Vanhayes: No definition for "Crazys" could be found.
05:52 -!- Commn [i=lksdfn@cpe-65-29-121-215.twmi.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
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06:11 <Your_mom_arma> did inv kick you fonk?
06:24 <DrJoeTron> uh
06:24 <DrJoeTron> how are you able to talk more than 2letters
06:26 <Your_mom_arma> i could only say 4 letters not enough to fix it
06:26 <Your_mom_arma> sorry
06:27 <Your_mom_arma> who did it?
06:32 -!- Fonkay [i=Fonkay@blk-89-218-73.eastlink.ca] has quit []
06:35 <DrJoeTron> probably invader did
06:36 <Your_mom_arma> that wasnt cool
06:41 <DrJoeTron> yeah it wasnt
06:42 -!- DrJoeTron [n=DrJoeTr0@adsl-67-36-181-241.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:49 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/income-guide/adsense-tips.html
06:49 <Your_mom_arma> http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/income-guide/
06:55 -!- manta [n=kim@64-118-125-125-as-07.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
07:30 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-69-159.delv.east.verizon.net] has quit ["bye."]
07:40 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu83w-156034246197.nb.aliant.net] has quit [""Quitted Quitting""]
09:00 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@cpe-76-183-44-91.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:22 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@cpe-76-183-44-91.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
09:56 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@cpe-76-183-44-91.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Sat Nov 04 10:04:56 2006
--- Log opened Sat Nov 04 11:13:34 2006
11:13 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@ppp-82-135-0-2.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #armagetron
11:13 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
11:13 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 5 secs
--- Log closed Sat Nov 04 11:17:22 2006
--- Log opened Sat Nov 04 21:19:09 2006
21:19 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@] has joined #armagetron
21:19 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 18 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
21:19 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
21:19 <Vanhayes> #ping
21:19 <armabot> pong
21:20 <guru3> gnip
21:21 <wrtlprnft> gnip?
21:21 <guru3> ping backwards
21:21 <wrtlprnft> duh
21:21 <guru3> :>
21:21 <guru3> someone's supposed to say gnop
21:21 <wrtlprnft> gnop
21:21 <wrtlprnft> :P
21:22 <guru3> :ED
21:22 <guru3> -E
21:23  * wrtlprnft doesn't think the smiley with the E looks like something nice
21:23 <guru3> haha yeah
21:23 <guru3> typo\
21:23 <guru3> trying to press shift and d
21:23 <wrtlprnft> yeah, of course
21:23 <guru3> without cantilevering my keyboard off the desk
21:23 <wrtlprnft> grrrr
21:24 <wrtlprnft> always right after i start opera and reload the forums the index page appears with all the unread forums marked
21:24 <wrtlprnft> then a second later it reloads and everything's marked red
21:25 <guru3> :/
21:25 <wrtlprnft> *read, of course
21:26 <guru3> maybe make it so that you can manually set the last time you logged into the forums
21:27 <wrtlprnft> would be an idea
22:07 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: check your non-backlogs
--- Log closed Sat Nov 04 23:02:53 2006
--- Log opened Sat Nov 04 23:02:58 2006
23:02 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@] has joined #armagetron
23:02 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 17 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
23:03 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 10 secs
23:03 <wrtlprnft> duh
23:03 <wrtlprnft> don't press ctrl-s in irssi in a screen and then wonder why noone's writing anything in any channel
23:05 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: what am i supposed to see there? I was offline for the better part of today.
23:05 <wrtlprnft> and i didn't miss a turn, i think
23:10 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: you seem to like advertising for me, and besides I'm almost going out of biz
23:10 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: so if someone you refer to me buys hosting, I'll send you $2 =p
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> why going out of business?
23:11 <Luke-Jr_> just email/CC me whenever you post/email someone about it ;p
23:11  * Lucifer_arma notes that the right plunger makes the difference between a flowing toilet and a bathroom covered in shit
23:11 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: not enough business?
23:12 <Luke-Jr_> only hosting 2 people now, 1 of which is considering closing their server
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr_: it takes a minimum of 1 year to get established.  i.e. most businesses fail in the first year.  Can't expect to become profitable until pretty much the 7th quarter
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> so if you give up now, it's either you didn't have enough cash or you didn't give it enough time
23:12 <Luke-Jr_> for a month-to-month service, 0 customers = out of business more or less....
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> that's why it's called capitalism.  You need capital to start a business.  :)
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> you need enough money to operate continuously for 2 years without any revenue at all
23:13 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: does DEDICATED_FPS really matter (you say so on the wiki)?
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> where it comes from doesn't matter.  If it's a big pile you start with, or if you get regular cash payments from somewhere or something
23:13 <Luke-Jr_> what's to operate w/o a customer, when you just provide service?
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> it makes a difference in CPU load
23:14 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: I mean for latency
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr_: that's assuming worst case you get no customers
23:14 <Luke-Jr_> the NEWS file says it's irrelevant now
23:14 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: w/o customers, there's no business when it's just hosting...
23:14 <Luke-Jr_> there's no expenses or anything to run
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> well, for latency it's a collateral effect.  If you have too many clients for your CPU to handle, sometimes decreasing DEDICATED_FPS makes a difference
23:14 <Luke-Jr_> hm
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr_: then you should stay with it for a lot longer.  If you can afford to operate without customers, then you should keep going for at least another 7-9 months and keep doing what you're doing
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> you see, a business doesn't survive on the customers it makes today.  It survives ont he customers it made *yesterday*.  By establishing relationships with them and so forth.
23:15 <Luke-Jr_> ...
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> so you have to be in business long enough to establish enough of those relationships.  Your growth comes from your repeat customers.
23:16 <Luke-Jr_> there's *nothing to operate*
23:16 <Luke-Jr_> without customers
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> how long have you been operating so far?
23:16 <Luke-Jr_> between 3 and 4 months
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> can you afford to operate for 9-12 more months?
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> without any customers?
23:17 <Luke-Jr_> there's nothing to operate...
23:17 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: i'm not actually trying to advertise you
23:17 <spidey> lol
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> so you don't pay any money if you don't have any customers?
23:17 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: well, you refer ppl to me =p
23:17 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: not if I cancel my server rentals
23:17 <wrtlprnft> i just want to have them stop asking stupid questions about how to set up a winXP box to host an arma server
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> then you don't have any business to offer anybody...
23:17 <spidey> wrtlprnft, eh?
23:17 <spidey> it's simple
23:17 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: so why not make $2 doing it? :p
23:17 <spidey> click the .exe
23:17 <spidey> der
23:18 <spidey> xD
23:18 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: sure I do
23:18 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: I can rent a new box within a day
23:18 <Luke-Jr_> spidey: they don't want to leave their box turned on 24/7
23:18 <spidey> mine has been on 24/7 for the last 4 years
23:18 <spidey> except for 3-4hours here and there
23:18 <Luke-Jr_> they don't want to =p
23:18 <spidey> repares, moving, etc
23:18 <spidey> repairs to
23:18 <Luke-Jr_> but they definately want their arma game to be on 24/7
23:19 <Luke-Jr_> I found that funny ;p
23:19 <spidey> ....
23:19 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: trouble is, for $32/month you can almost get a full-blown Hetzner server w/ an amd64, unlimited traffic and a gigabit connection
23:19 <Luke-Jr_> they want to host their own 24/7 arma server, but don't know how and don't want their computer on 24/7
23:19 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: where?
23:19 <wrtlprnft> http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver.html
23:19 <wrtlprnft> that's a root server
23:20 <Luke-Jr_> which is?
23:20 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver_en.html
23:20 <wrtlprnft> that might be better :P
23:20 <spidey> #g 29 euros in USD
23:20 <armabot> spidey: 29 Euros = 36.9953 U.S. dollars
23:20 <spidey> not bad
23:20 <Luke-Jr_> #g 49 euros in USD
23:20 <armabot> Luke-Jr_: 49 Euros = 62.5093 U.S. dollars
23:20 <Luke-Jr_> 49 euro is the cheapest on that page =p
23:20 <Luke-Jr_> o
23:20 <wrtlprnft> and they have an excellent connection
23:20 <Luke-Jr_> eww, high setup fee
23:21 <wrtlprnft> setup fee doesn't matter, at least to me
23:21 <spidey> Monatlicher Grundpreis
23:21 <spidey> what's that mean?
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> well, actually, if you've got 1 loyal customer in 3-4 months, for your business, that's actually good
23:21 <wrtlprnft> i'm actually thinking about getting one of those
23:21 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: but it's non-managed
23:21 <wrtlprnft> spidey: use the second link
23:21 <spidey> oh
23:21 <Luke-Jr_> lol
23:22 <spidey> for $36
23:22 <spidey> that isn't bad
23:22 <wrtlprnft> i like the second one there for 39€
23:22 <Vanhayes> Luke-Jr_: how much money were you expecting from server hosting?
23:22 <wrtlprnft> 1gBit connection, and I know their hosting is excellent
23:22 <Luke-Jr_> Vanhayes: not much
23:22 <spidey> hmm
23:22 <spidey> i'll have to look into that later :D
23:22 <spidey> #g 39 EUROS in USD
23:22 <armabot> spidey: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:22 <spidey> ...
23:23 <wrtlprnft> CTWF is hosted on a server by that company, the one that's one notch weaker than the lowest one on that list
23:23 <spidey> #g 39 euros in USD
23:23 <armabot> spidey: 39 Euros = 49.7523 U.S. dollars
23:23 <spidey> not bad at all
23:23 <spidey> concidering i'm paying $50 for what i got now xD
23:23 <spidey> well...really $30 the rest has been donations o.O
23:23 <Luke-Jr_> the catch w/ those servers are bandwidth
23:23 <wrtlprnft> spidey: what have you got?
23:23 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: 1 GBit is enough, really
23:24 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: 200 GB/mo isn't
23:24 <Luke-Jr_> not for more than a few arma servers
23:24 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: talking about the second one
23:24 <wrtlprnft> the DS 3000
23:24 <Luke-Jr_> ah
23:24 <wrtlprnft> unlimited
23:24 <wrtlprnft> just need to click a button after you hit TB
23:24 <Luke-Jr_> well, before I could afford that, I'd need at least a few more Europe customers
23:24 <wrtlprnft> *hit 1TB
23:24 <Luke-Jr_> especially if I were to drop prices
23:25 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: we could share a server?
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: we who?
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> maybe
23:25 <wrtlprnft> I'd host some ct server on there and other crap
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> you're CT now?
23:25 <wrtlprnft> there isn't any bandwidth to worry about
23:25 <wrtlprnft> no, not in the clan
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> sounds good
23:25 <wrtlprnft> but admin on the servers
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> I'll bbiab tho
23:25 <wrtlprnft> ok
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> see who else might be interested
23:25 <Luke-Jr_> maybe
23:26 <Luke-Jr_> the setup fee is annoying tho
23:26 <wrtlprnft> well, they don't want you to get the server and quit after a month
23:26 <wrtlprnft> i like that more than being bound to some contract for 12 months or so
23:26 <wrtlprnft> that exists as well
23:27 <Luke-Jr_> my US host is month-by-month w/o a setup fee =p
23:27 <Luke-Jr_> and all the plans are unmetered
23:27 <Luke-Jr_> but, bbiab
23:27 <Luke-Jr_> :)
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, the perceived quality isn't terribly good right now
23:27 <wrtlprnft> anyways, the CT server is hosted there, so you can be sure that the quality is OK
23:28 <Luke-Jr_> Lucifer_arma: seems fine for me, and the customer hosted on it
23:28 <wrtlprnft> and they do have a manual on how to install gentoo on their machines
23:28 <Luke-Jr_> wrtlprnft: I never get good pings at CT =p
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> the pings are good, but there are pretty nasty lag slides
23:28 <Luke-Jr_> I use Debian for my hosting ATM
23:28 <Luke-Jr_> BBIAB!!
23:28 <Luke-Jr_> :p
23:28 <wrtlprnft> yeah, go!
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> when I'm playing in one that you're hosting (either as an ad or whathaveyou), people there complain about the lag slides
23:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: not bad at all for me, and hasn't been too bad from canada
23:28 <Vanhayes> Ct ping is good for me its the fps, but thats probly the size of the maps
23:29 <wrtlprnft> well, they aren't square maps
23:29 <spidey> wrtlprnft, win2k vps
23:29 <wrtlprnft> ?
23:29 <spidey> 10gigs space, 50gb bandwith
23:29 <Vanhayes> ya, that one chico hourglass is the worst for fps
23:29 <spidey> that's $25
23:29 <spidey> then webhosting with ssh for whatever i want
23:29 <spidey> $9
23:30 <spidey> then the soldat server $14.99
23:30 <wrtlprnft> 50gb bandwidth = nothing
23:30 <wrtlprnft> not for an arma server, anyways
23:30 <spidey> it hosts the website and a soldatserver
23:30 <wrtlprnft> ctwf is consuming some 7GB a day
23:31  * spidey doesn't do armahosting
23:31 <spidey> =p
23:31 <spidey> that's Luke-Jr_ 's thing
23:31 <spidey> i'ma be doing webhosting whenever i get unlazy
23:31 <Vanhayes> well hes trying to make it his thing
23:31 <spidey> lol
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, he's trying to give up
23:31 <wrtlprnft> no, can't be 7GB/month
23:32 <Vanhayes> right, he was trying to make it his thing yesturday
23:32 <wrtlprnft> but close to 100GB/month
23:32 <Vanhayes> #g 100/ 28
23:32 <armabot> Vanhayes: 100 / 28 = 3.57142857
23:32 <wrtlprnft> 3.5GB/month in february
23:32 <spidey> #g 99 euros in USD
23:32 <armabot> spidey: 99 Euros = 126.2943 U.S. dollars
23:33 <spidey> if it wasn't for that damned setup fee =(
23:33 <Vanhayes> well I consider 4 weeks a month, as in day->week->month->year etc
23:34 <wrtlprnft> spidey: if you're gonna keep the server for a year it's some 10$/month, though
23:34 <wrtlprnft> and i'd probably keep it longer
23:34 <spidey> o.O
23:34 <spidey> 10euros?
23:34 <wrtlprnft> dollars
23:34 <wrtlprnft> 126/12 is about 10 :P
23:34 <spidey> hmm
23:35 <spidey> 126 = setup fee
23:35 <spidey> =p
23:35 <wrtlprnft> yep
23:35 <wrtlprnft> and if you're gonna keep it for a year it's 10/month
23:35 <spidey> hmm
23:35 <spidey> i COULD
23:35 <spidey> get 2 of those
23:35 <spidey> but not till feburary or may
23:36 <Vanhayes> why not untill then?
23:36 <spidey> i can't afford even that on my own =p
23:36 <spidey> my brother will help
23:36 <spidey> so not untill then
23:36 <spidey> and he's in kid-prision right now , rofl
23:37 <Vanhayes> how old is he?
23:37 <spidey> 15
23:38 -!- Legit [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:39 <Legit> hey luke, u ehrE?
23:39 <Vanhayes> too legit to quit
23:39 <spidey> 2 x 160 GB SATA HDD  does that mean you get 2 160gb sata drives, or 2 that = 160
23:39 <spidey> Legit, don't wake him up, please =/
23:39 <Legit> sorry spidey... lol
23:39 <wrtlprnft> spidey: two of them
23:39 <spidey> sweet o.O
23:39 <Vanhayes> he said biab about 20 min ago
23:40 <spidey> so lets see
23:40 <spidey> hmm
23:40 <wrtlprnft> gonna play a wormux game, so i won't be here
23:40 <spidey> what's that?
23:40 <wrtlprnft> /join #wormux
23:41 <spidey> they got a windows port?
23:42 <wrtlprnft> no
23:42 <wrtlprnft> not yet, anyways
23:42 <wrtlprnft> it's very beta
23:42 <spidey> k
23:43 <wrtlprnft> until recently it all crashed if someone left the game
23:43 -!- Super [n=1805f2ec@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:43 <Vanhayes> ha
23:43 <Super> Hello
23:43 <Super> where can i buy a armagetron server?
23:43 <wrtlprnft> http://lightfoot.hashjr.org/
23:43 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_: Luke-Jr_ 
23:44 <Super> how much does it cost
23:44 <Super> i want to buy a year of service 
23:44 <Super> 16 players
23:44 <wrtlprnft> it's printed on the page...
23:44 <Legit> 20 a month 
23:44 <Super> ok
23:44 <Legit> for 16
23:44 <wrtlprnft> #g 20*12
23:44 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 20 * 12 = 240
23:44 <Super> how can i trust that i won't be ripped off once he makes server
23:44 <wrtlprnft> $240
23:44 <Super> once i pay him*
23:44 <Legit> super? he wont refund u either
23:45 <wrtlprnft> ask him, he's gonna be back in a bit
23:45 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr_, that is
23:45 <Super> luke-jr?
23:45 <Super> whos that?
23:45 <Super> my name isn't luke jr
23:45 <Legit> how do i leave a message again?
23:45 <wrtlprnft> arma developer and once in a while player
23:45 <Super> and why would i ask him?
23:45 <wrtlprnft> Legit: #later tell nick message
23:46 <Legit> thank
23:46 <Legit> s
23:46 <wrtlprnft> because he's offering it
23:46 <Super> i see
23:46 <wrtlprnft> and his real name is somewhere
23:46 <Legit> #later tell luke-jr_ hey luke let me kno when u egt back cause the server isnt working... it wont elt me put it up
23:46 <armabot> Legit: The operation succeeded.
23:46 <Super> his server won't work?
23:47 <wrtlprnft> hmm, it's not in the AUTHORS file
23:47 <Legit> is there any one else who hsots besides lukejr?
23:47 <wrtlprnft> well, i suggest you wait for him to return and sort it out
23:47 <wrtlprnft> not commercially, i think
23:47 <Super> i don't really like the sound of luke-jr
23:47 <Super> his servers don't work
23:48 <Vanhayes> ?
23:48 <Vanhayes> they work pretty good
23:48 <Super> legit just say that the server isn't up
23:48 <Super> and it wont let him put it back up
23:49 <Super> are you all luke's buisness partners
23:49 <wrtlprnft> not really
23:49 <[dlh]> haha, no.
23:49 <Super> not really? you are partly his partners?
23:49 <Super> ok
23:49 <wrtlprnft> err, i'm not
23:49 <spidey> never
23:49 <spidey> i'd kill him and take over
23:49 <spidey> bwahaha
23:49 <Super> calm down buddy
23:49 <Legit> lol spidey
23:50 <Super> don't cream your paernts
23:50 <wrtlprnft> you could rent some vserver, though, you'd just need to figure out how to use it :P
23:50 <spidey> ....
23:50 <spidey> lol
23:50 <Super> vps hosting
23:50 <Super> correct?
23:50 <spidey> Super, do what?
23:50 <Super> cream your parents.
23:50 <Super> pants*
23:50 <spidey> ....
23:51 <Super> spidey hasn't discovered the use of his penis yet i'm guessing
23:51 <Super> or hasn't had the oportunity to use it
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> anybody ever use CentOS?
23:51 <wrtlprnft> not me
23:51 <Super> why would we?
23:51 <Super> this is a server room, for hosting
23:51 <wrtlprnft> err, now
23:51 <wrtlprnft> *no
23:51 <Super> for armagetron server hosting
23:51 <wrtlprnft> this ais a general armagetron room
23:52 <wrtlprnft> *is
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> I'm luke's partner, I make him wear a rubber, he hates it
23:52 <spidey> lol
23:52 <Super> ok, well i would liek to order a year of hosting
23:52 <Super> the 2 circle type
23:53 <spidey> luke's giving up on hosting! xD
23:53 <Super> i wish to preview his service for a month before paying, because i'm not sure if he will stop service once i pay
23:53 <spidey> ...
23:53 <Super> he is? i was going to pay up to 800 dollars for armagetron hosting of 3 servers
23:53 <spidey> nah, lol
23:54 <wrtlprnft> he's considering it for the lack of customers
23:54 <Super> i don't like this
23:54 <Super> i can't even contact him
23:54 <Super> right now, i'm stuck with your munchkins 
23:54 <spidey> o.O
23:54 <Super> his*
23:54  * spidey minimizes for Luke-Jr_ 's sake
23:54 <wrtlprnft> Super: don't expect him to answer within a few minutes at any time of the day
23:54 <spidey> xD
23:54 <Super> well, he isn't a good person to buy from then
23:55 <wrtlprnft> holy crap
23:55 <Super> if i buy a ipod at all, i'd expect to walk into the store and get service
23:55 <Super> within the first 15 minutes
23:55 <spidey> ...
23:55 <wrtlprnft> even at night?
23:55 <wrtlprnft> on sunday?
23:55 <wrtlprnft> i wanna see that store
23:55 <spidey> rofl
23:55 <Super> on sunday
23:55 <Super> at 3 pm yes.
23:55 <Super> actually on saturday at 3 pm*
23:55 <wrtlprnft> well, it would be sunday here
23:56 <wrtlprnft> almost at least
23:56 <Super> well, your retarded 
23:56 <spidey> he's fro mthe future
23:56 <Super> from the future of losers
23:56  * spidey loves the ignore button
23:56 <spidey> =)
23:56 <Super> ok well i don't think i'm going to be buying hosting now
23:56 <Super> since his little partners are jerk bags
23:56 <Super> bye.
23:56 -!- Super [n=1805f2ec@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC"]
23:56 <wrtlprnft> o_O
23:57 <[dlh]> Nice joke. We've been punked.
23:57 <spidey> he's kidding...right?
23:57 <wrtlprnft> yeah
23:57 <wrtlprnft> i guess so, too
23:57 <wrtlprnft> never heard of that guy, anyways
23:58 <Vanhayes> wow, glad I missed most of that
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> that was probably luke testing us to see if he'd support his server for him
23:58 <spidey> lol
23:58 <Vanhayes> love how he thought this room was for amagetron hosting only
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> well, if he was a real legitimate customer, then we just learned something
23:59 <spidey> isn't that jodas webbased irc thing?
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> not sure what, though
23:59 <spidey> the ip
23:59 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, he was a bigger retard than me? =p
23:59 <Vanhayes> that everyone has the right to refuse service is what I learned
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> er

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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