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Log from 2006-08-28:
--- Day changed Mon Aug 28 2006
00:05 <spidey> good god
00:05 <spidey> why is everyone so obessed with religion
00:05 <spidey> luke-jr_, stfu
00:05 <spidey> that's ahead of time
00:05 <spidey> :p
00:08 <luke-jr_> spidey: stfu u
00:08 <spidey> no!
00:09 <luke-jr_> everyone is obsessed with non-religion really
00:09 <spidey> the last few days every convo i've had with someone somehow ended in a religious thing
00:09 <spidey> -_-
00:09  * spidey ignores everyone on his list
00:10  * luke-jr_ ignores everyone not on his list
00:12 <spidey> sheesh
00:12 <spidey> i wnder what micro's thinking
00:13 <spidey> 4+ axis servers aren't for deathmatch servers, they suck for it
00:14 <DrJoeTron> sweet
00:14 <DrJoeTron> alright
00:14 <DrJoeTron> bbl time to build the cage
00:14 <spidey> you get a dog?
00:15 <DrJoeTron> yeah, its called a dell 4500s
00:15 <spidey> sweet
00:15 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
00:15 <spidey> but
00:15 <spidey> why name it a dell
00:15 <DrJoeTron> i just need to get a wireless receiver
00:15 <DrJoeTron> and il finally give the cage its own machine to run off of
00:16 <DrJoeTron> instead of eating my resources
00:17 <luke-jr_> spidey: wtf? MBC has never been deathmatch...
00:17  * spidey minimizes
00:18 <luke-jr_> anyway, I left MBC cuz it was getting old
00:18 <luke-jr_> changes will help it
00:18 <spidey> micro is affraid of anything under 38 rubber
00:19 <spidey> if it goes back to anything above 45, i'm leaving and a few other people said they are to
00:19 <spidey> he considers 38 low rubber
00:19 <spidey> i consider 5 normal rubber :D
00:25 <DrJoeTron> 4
00:25 <spidey> ?
00:25 <DrJoeTron> :p
00:25 <spidey> i'll play with anything, but i don't LIKE it over 10
00:25 <DrJoeTron> i want my screws!
00:26 <DrJoeTron> the 20gig im using has mandriva installed
00:26 <DrJoeTron> but with a bad kernal
00:26 <DrJoeTron> so it refuses to start up
00:27 <spidey> mandrivia?
00:27 <spidey> ew
00:27 <DrJoeTron> swampy suggested it
00:27 <spidey> ew!
00:34 <DrJoeTron> NO!
00:34 <DrJoeTron> the drive is ruined!
00:35 <spidey> ?
00:35 <DrJoeTron> im trying to re bend this pin for an ide cable
00:35 <DrJoeTron> iforgot this drive took a spill
00:36 <DrJoeTron> il be amazed if it works
00:40 <DrJoeTron> sweet i bent it back
00:40 <DrJoeTron> america wins!
00:40 <spidey> ...
00:41 <spidey> bending a pin isn't hard :p
00:41 <DrJoeTron> this one was
00:41 <spidey> ...
00:41 <DrJoeTron> it was burried all the way to the bottom
00:41 <spidey> lol
00:41 <spidey> all you need is a tooth pick
00:41 <DrJoeTron> didnt have
00:41 <spidey> hahaha
00:42 <DrJoeTron> i used a knife
00:42 <DrJoeTron> anndd
00:42 <spidey> my uncle's got life fucked up
00:42 <DrJoeTron> those things that clip
00:42 <spidey> he wants me to move in the other room so he can take this one
00:42 <DrJoeTron> seutchers
00:42 <DrJoeTron> there we go
00:42 <spidey> with my king size bed and a/c
00:42 <spidey> i told him
00:42 <spidey> move my air conditioner and bed and it's a deal -_-
00:43 <spidey> the other room is bigger anyways
00:44 <spidey> Vanhayes, DrJoeTron 
00:44 <spidey> wanna play warrock?
00:44 <Vanhayes> what?
00:44 <Vanhayes> er maybe later, I reall like CTF
00:44 <spidey> -_-
00:44 <spidey> DrJoeTron, ?
00:44 <spidey> i can get orb to play to
00:45 <spidey> it'll be 2vs2 :p
00:46 <Vanhayes> hmm vehicles?
00:46 <DrJoeTron> what
00:46 <DrJoeTron> spidey pong
00:46 <spidey> i wanna play that one inbetween vhicles and mission
00:46 <spidey> what it is?
00:46 <spidey> DrJoeTron, wanna play warrock with us?
00:46 <spidey> 2vs2 :p
00:46 <DrJoeTron> hahaha you got it?
00:46 <spidey> if hayes plays
00:47 <spidey> yes
00:47 <spidey> you me hayes and orb
00:47 <spidey> :D
00:47 <DrJoeTron> i uninstalled it but i can get it again
00:47 <spidey> me and orb on a team though
00:47 <spidey> :p
00:47 <spidey> get it :D
00:47 <DrJoeTron> also im gonna power off and see if this fucker runs
00:47 <DrJoeTron> il play later tonight probably
00:48 <spidey> :(
00:48 <DrJoeTron> bbl
00:48 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTr0@adsl-64-108-205-96.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:48 <spidey> hayes wanna play?
00:52 <Vanhayes> sure
00:52 <spidey> k
00:52 <spidey> goto the normal server
00:52 <spidey> this last channel we was in
00:52 <Vanhayes> vehicle tho right?
00:52 <spidey> mmm
00:52 <spidey> sec
00:53 <spidey> ya
00:53 <spidey> cya there
00:53 <Vanhayes> ya ill be a few minutes it takes a while to start up
00:57 <spidey> i'm there
00:57 <spidey> waiting for orb
00:57 <spidey> :/
00:57 <Vanhayes> ?
00:57 <spidey> reinvite me
00:57 <spidey> lol
00:57 <Vanhayes> lol ok
00:59 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTr0@adsl-64-108-205-96.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #Armagetron
00:59 <DrJoeTron> spidey give me a few min
01:00 <DrJoeTron> spidey what made you change your mind on DLing warrock?
01:00 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180020.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:04 <spidey> orb
01:04 <DrJoeTron> fucker
01:05 <DrJoeTron> is there a patch now?
01:05 <spidey> dunno
01:07 <spidey> wooooooooooo
01:07 <spidey> i flew a plane
01:08 <DrJoeTron> i hate you spidey!
01:08 <DrJoeTron> i like how all of the voices are exactly the same
01:10 <spidey> i sniped orb accross the map
01:13 <DrJoeTron> ya sniper is ultra powerful
01:15 <spidey> fuck
01:15 <spidey> i suck at flying
01:19 <spidey> i can't ever land that jet
01:21 <DrJoeTron> i could never get used to flying in that game
01:21 <DrJoeTron> too used to bf2
01:27 <spidey> lol
01:29 <DrJoeTron> 0101010001001001010101000101010001011001
01:29 <DrJoeTron> 01000110010101010100001101001011
01:40 <DrJoeTron> spidey
01:41 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron
01:41 <DrJoeTron> yes?
01:42 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron
01:44 <DrJoeTron> luke-jr_, 
01:44 <spidey> joe
01:44 <spidey> come play
01:44 <DrJoeTron> currently updating
01:45 <spidey> we'lll restart when you get ready
01:45 <spidey> i wanna play normal
01:46 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron
01:46 <DrJoeTron> what
01:47 <DrJoeTron> can i help you luke-jr_ ?
01:47 <luke-jr_> no
01:47 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron
01:47 <DrJoeTron>  /ignore luke-jr_ 
01:47 <luke-jr_> lol
01:47 <luke-jr_> spidey
01:48 <DrJoeTron> go fix arma luke-jr_ !
01:52 <DrJoeTron> spidey ts
01:55 <spidey> what's the address/pass
01:55 <spidey> ?
01:57 <DrJoeTron> pass is option
01:57 <DrJoeTron> or there might not be a pass
--- Log closed Mon Aug 28 01:59:30 2006
--- Log opened Mon Aug 28 02:04:38 2006
02:04 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@] has joined #armagetron
02:04 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
02:04 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 6 secs
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02:58 <Lucifer_arma> <luke-jr_> but we really should let servers force a specific cockpit...  <--- you can't.  I can always mod my client.  Why waste your time on something you can't enforce?
03:13 <Lucifer_arma> well, no spam yet
03:37 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180020.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
03:38 <Vanhayes> spidey?
03:42 <Vanhayes> er bbl
03:42 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034180020.nb.aliant.net] has quit ["So thats what that button does...."]
03:45 <spidey> got tired of being spawn killed
03:45 <spidey> lol
03:50 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-151-204-201-144.pskn.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
04:18 <mkzelda> season finale 4400 ep was awesome
04:48 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's near 24 hours since I re-enabled anonymous editing on the wiki and still no spam
04:56 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: we already have such settings
04:57 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_: and they already don't work
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> back when I ran my in-cam only server (on, one guy hacked his client to let him use any cam he wanted and another guy found a workaround that didn't require hacking his client.
04:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's a pretty high percentage of players when you think about it, the server was a niche in a niche, it only had like 4-6 regular players.
05:00 <luke-jr_> well, if we restrict the source data instead we can theoretically make it work better
05:00 <luke-jr_> eg, if CYCLE_RUBBER is restricted, don't tell it to the clients
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> I'm more interested in why it's needed, because the only reasons I've been hearing have been what I consider bad reasons for restricting.
05:01  * Lucifer_arma notes that if the client doesn't know cycle_rubber, it can't simulate it
05:01 <Lucifer_arma> I'm also interested in how we can detect when someone has bypassed it
05:01 <luke-jr_> it shouldn't need to simulate it
05:02 <luke-jr_> AFAIK, it doesn't
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> you did notice the tail lag on fortress?
05:02 <Lucifer_arma> the "lag" part went away when people had clients that simulated it properly...
05:02 <luke-jr_> simulate cycles passing through the wall =p
05:03 <luke-jr_> oh
05:03 <luke-jr_> I see what you mean
05:03 <luke-jr_> that's a problem if walls stay up after death, maybe
05:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's a problem every time you approach a wall.  :/
05:03 <luke-jr_> not really
05:04 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, that's not the point.  The point is, why do you want to restrict hud gauges and/or the complete cockpit?
05:04 <luke-jr_> rubber only comes into real play on a death
05:04  * Lucifer_arma notes that rubber makes a big difference in whether or not you can outgrind Your_mom_arma 
05:04 <luke-jr_> in the cast of the HUD map, for a maze-- that will be hard to do server-side
05:04 <luke-jr_> case*
05:05 <luke-jr_> really, I think the useful ones to restrict are the ones that are the hardest to restrict :(
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> well, you can't stop the hud map, really.  and it does give an advantage to someone who has the hud map....
05:05 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so what about detection?  If a more reliable way to detect this stuff could be found, I'd be more interested in it.  :)
05:05 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188278.nb.aliant.net] has joined #armagetron
05:05 <luke-jr_> I doubt you can
05:06 <luke-jr_> no more than you can detect AI playing
05:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, there are workarounds that can be used
05:07 <Vanhayes> spidey: are you still playing warrock?
05:07 <luke-jr_> now, if you don't mind making glances and such server-side, you could simply not update things outside the player's view...
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> if you want to restrict the hud map, send a different map to the client than what the server uses
05:07 <spidey> no
05:07 <Vanhayes> ok
05:07 <spidey> i got tired of being spawn killed
05:07 <spidey> spawn killed o.o
05:07 <luke-jr_> that messes up simulation quite a bit
05:07 <Vanhayes> lol
05:07 <luke-jr_> see ed'
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> then restrict the hud map.  If someone does mod their client, they're fucked.
05:07 <luke-jr_> ed's dual-aamap maps
05:07 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it does mess up simulation, heh.
05:07 <luke-jr_> well
05:07 <luke-jr_> you *could* put points WAY outside the actual arena
05:08 <luke-jr_> and HUD map would scale it wrong
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> forcing the hud map to scale
05:08 <luke-jr_> but that might be ugly
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> hey, that might result in someone giving us a patch to scale the hud map :)
05:08 <luke-jr_> maybe
05:09 <luke-jr_> I'd like one that autoscales to the bounds of all cycles =p
05:09 <luke-jr_> maybe with a margin
05:09 <luke-jr_> and allow overflow drawing
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> I want it to scale to like 20m x 20m and then point it so that your cycle is centered, pointing up
05:10 <luke-jr_> up to a certain percentage anyhow
05:10 <luke-jr_> I'd like quite a few different HUD maps, I think =p
05:10 <luke-jr_> all in one
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, yeah, me too.  :)  Either has new widgets using old code or attributes of the map widget
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> I want to be able to cycle between the radar-like map I've described and the full map that's there
05:11 <Lucifer_arma> the stuff is already there to do the cycling, I just need the new map widgets available :)
05:11 <luke-jr_> yes
05:11 <luke-jr_> did I mention how much I'm starting to dislike OS X?
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I think it would be more useful to us to work out what kinds of maps and game variations can be made that eliminate advantages the cockpit gives
05:12 <luke-jr_> why? just cuz the HUD map ruins a game doesn't make the game non-fun
05:13 <Lucifer_arma> and I'm only going to hack my own client to workaround any cockpit restrictions for servers that are using them for purely draconian reasons
05:13 <luke-jr_> see wrtl's hide and seek server
05:13 <Lucifer_arma> "more useful" is a relative statement
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> the main reason I've heard is that "for in-cam only servers, the hud map conveys an unfair advantage", and I just don't buy that brand of cereal
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> the radar-like map I want will actually convey an unfair advantage for incam servers, though.  :)  (that's why I want it, to make incam much more playable)
05:22 <Your_mom_arma> Lucifer_arma: I want it to scale to like 20m x 20m and then point it so that your cycle is centered, pointing up
05:22 <Your_mom_arma> i second that
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> how do categories work in mediawiki?
05:24 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I've seen subcategories in wikipedia, how do we use them ourselves?
05:24  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he needs to upgrade the wiki, heh
05:25 <Your_mom_arma> im not sure how to use them, i just know i have a hard time finding things alot of times
05:26 <Your_mom_arma> go looking for map info and i'll stumble into color codes and how to install a moviepack
05:28 <Your_mom_arma> luci can you fix the default skin, its changed formatting 
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> um, it has, I tried to get everything to indent properly.  I really need a screenshot of what's broken specifically...
05:29 <Lucifer_arma> because, um, it looks very nice on my browser.  :)
05:35 <Your_mom_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Image:Formating_wiki.jpg
05:35 <Your_mom_arma> low quality jpg had to get it down to 1.5mb
05:37 <Your_mom_arma> want a comparison with another skin?
05:52 <spidey> wtf
05:53 <spidey> i've had 2 fortress servers running this whole time
05:53 <spidey> o.o
05:54 <spidey> umm
05:54 <spidey> how can mysql use 99% cpu cycle and httpd use 39.2%
05:54 <spidey> o.o
05:56 <groundpig> Your_mom_arma: thanks, i upgraded to your map and dtd
05:56 <mkzelda> i got in trouble for asking a teacher how i was supposed to give 110%
05:56 <mkzelda> "How I can I give more than I have?"
05:56 <Your_mom_arma> groundpig: np
05:56 <Your_mom_arma> mkzelda: lol
05:57 <Your_mom_arma> outsourcing?
05:57 <groundpig> switched the flag and base one one side so more complex runs are needed
05:58 <mkzelda> haha
05:58 <mkzelda> good answer
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06:25 <luke-jr_> mkzelda: tell the school administration that so-and-so teacher was telling you to cheat
06:25 <luke-jr_> =o
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06:35 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: that screenshot shows badly-used lists.  Does the font really look that bad on your screen?
06:43 <spidey> wow
06:43 <spidey> people actually still know how to play roulutte
06:43 <spidey> well, that's the most fun i've had in tron in a few months :D
06:44 <Your_mom_arma> no the font looks fine i just had to really compress the image
06:47 <Your_mom_arma> 30 or 35% compression to get it to 1.5 mb
06:48 <Your_mom_arma> er
06:48 <Your_mom_arma> mabey it was .15
06:49 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTr0@adsl-64-108-205-96.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #Armagetron
06:57 <Your_mom_arma> DrJoeTron: killed by a troll
06:57 <DrJoeTron> pong?
06:57 <DrJoeTron> oh shit
06:57 <DrJoeTron> yeah!
06:57 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
06:57 <Your_mom_arma> haha
06:57 <DrJoeTron> Hold on, i got a call
06:57 <DrJoeTron> oh yeah? what'd he say?
06:57 <DrJoeTron> what did you say?
06:58 <Your_mom_arma> haha
06:58 <DrJoeTron> no. waay.
06:58 <DrJoeTron> birthday one is still the greatest
06:59 <Your_mom_arma> we got you just what you wanted dissapointment
06:59 <Your_mom_arma> murderface is the mr.T of the group so of course
07:00 <Your_mom_arma> what are the guitarists names?
07:00 <Your_mom_arma> i know pickels william murderface and nathan explosion
07:01 <DrJoeTron> toki is one
07:01 <Your_mom_arma> is that the one with the wierd stach?
07:01 <DrJoeTron> yeah
07:02 <Your_mom_arma> hmm whos the blond strait man?
07:03 <DrJoeTron> hmmm
07:03 <DrJoeTron> oh yeah!
07:03 <DrJoeTron> skwisgaar
07:03 <Your_mom_arma> Skwisgaar Skwigelf
07:03 <DrJoeTron> yeah
07:03 <Your_mom_arma> Skwisgaar Skwigelf, Toki Wartooth, William Murderface, Pickles the Drummer, and Nathan Explosion
07:04 <DrJoeTron> wiki it?
07:04 <Your_mom_arma> google
07:04 <Your_mom_arma> all i found was the myspace page
07:04 <DrJoeTron> hahaha
07:04 <DrJoeTron> thats cute
07:04 <Your_mom_arma> everytime i google something i get either myspace or wiki results
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom_arma: you can usually ignore that size warning, can't you?  :)
07:05 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=86811#86811
07:07 <Your_mom_arma> as long as im not organizing all the playertrick pages and playing the game stuff
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that's all I've outlined so far
07:07 <Your_mom_arma> well the main point i was making was all the weird indentations i get, changing skins fixes the problem
07:07 <Lucifer_arma> maybe it'll make more sense when I start putting links to actual pages in the outline?
07:08 <Your_mom_arma> perhaps
07:09 <Lucifer_arma> I've listed some specific pages, just didn't link them, heh
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07:16 <Your_mom_arma> go steal the guys who did the freeciv wiki and just keep our main page
07:16 <Your_mom_arma> thier main page is impossible to navigate it has so many links
07:18 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p57A1A48B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> their wiki is impossible to navigate :(
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> part of the reason I'm wanting to reorganize ours is because I'm frustrated with theirs ;)
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> what happens when you transclude a category page?
07:28 <Your_mom_arma> mabey we should make use of the templates for this with some nice html or wiki formatting
07:30 <Your_mom_arma> Red for the main hub template; orange for branches like playing the game; yellow for project docs;etc
07:31 <Lucifer_arma> for the outline itself?  Or you mean when we actually start reorganizing the pages themselves?
07:32 <Your_mom_arma> when we start to organize
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> I ws intending, but probably didn't say so, that each bullet in the outline that has bullets underneath it (branches) should be a Category: special page
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> because a Category: special page can include article text as well as listing all the pages that go in it.  :)  So we'll use Categories to organize everything.
07:32 <Lucifer_arma> Then, yeah, templates like we've been using to provide additional navigation
07:33 <Lucifer_arma> as for nice formatting, I've no ideas, try what you want and if it looks good keep it :)
07:44 <luke-jr_> spidey: outer?
07:49 <Your_mom_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Talk:Wiki_Structuring_Project
07:49 <Your_mom_arma> rough ideas for templates
07:51 <Your_mom_arma> work on it later, cya guys
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10:45 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with margin
10:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:12:57] <wrtlprnft> if you nest two lists they'll both have different calculated margings
10:45 <wrtlprnft> ack
10:45 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with margin --with Lucifer_arma:
10:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 50000 messages.
10:45 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: that's because the margins are specified as percentages
10:46 <wrtlprnft> yeah
10:46 <wrtlprnft> which is a bad idea (TM)
10:46  * Lucifer_arma is old and traditional, preferring percentages over anything else
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> really?  why is it a bad idea?
10:47 <wrtlprnft> well, look at nested lists
10:47 <wrtlprnft> the 2nd list will have less indentation than the 1st one
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> right, I don't see why that's bad though
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> as long as it's clearly indented in relation to the first, that's what matters
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, percentage margins will shrink with the size of the window or block, allowing more text to show for smaller sizes
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> when the window shrinks, it's more important to me to fit text in there than whitespace
10:48 <wrtlprnft> well, that sucks too
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> why?
10:48 <wrtlprnft> as if the indentation is too small, the bullet appears outside of the page
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> gotta get pretty small for that to happen
10:49 <wrtlprnft> and the positioning of the list bullets isn't standarized AFAIK and different between browsers
10:49 <wrtlprnft> opera aligns it on the right which looks good, ff aligns it on the left
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> aligns what on the right?
10:50 <wrtlprnft> and it's a huge waste of screen space
10:50 <wrtlprnft> the bullet
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> on the right of what?
10:51  * Lucifer_arma notes he uses a 60px panel on a 1024x768 monitor
10:51 <wrtlprnft> on the right of the indentation space
10:51 <wrtlprnft> of the right margin
10:51 <wrtlprnft> after all the bullet is a pixel image
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> so when it line-wraps, does it start the second line under the bullet, or does it line up the text on the left?
10:52 <wrtlprnft> no
10:52 <Lucifer_arma> no what?
10:52 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Image:Formating_wiki.jpg <-- aligned on the left
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> I don't get what you're trying to show me
10:54 <wrtlprnft> see that huge space between the bullet and the text on the 2nd bullet after "Formatting"
10:54 <wrtlprnft> ?
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> yes
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> you're basing your conclusion on that?
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> did you look at the html that generated that?  it's a page full of badly-used lists
10:55 <wrtlprnft> why?
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> why what?
10:56 <Lucifer_arma> why is it a page full of badly-used lists?
10:56 <wrtlprnft> <ul><li><p>some text</p><p>more text</p></li><!-- more list items --></ul>
10:56 <wrtlprnft> what's wrong about that?
10:56 <wrtlprnft> paragraphs in list items are perfectly valid
10:57 <Lucifer_arma> I need some sort of reference point.  What you just showed me doesn't tell me anything.  Is that the html that made the screenshot?
10:57 <wrtlprnft> yeah
10:57 <wrtlprnft> that list i was referring to
10:57 <Lucifer_arma> and what is "some text" supposed to be then?
10:58 <wrtlprnft> "Well, this still uses definition lists that just aren't appropiate, and the date in front really clutters things up."
10:58 <wrtlprnft> "more text" means "The real problem with normal unordered lists is that mediawiki's syntax doesn't allow them to be longer than one paragraph, at least without ugly tricks like this."
11:01 <Lucifer_arma> that's not the list causing that
11:01 <wrtlprnft> it's the paragraph inside
11:02 <Lucifer_arma> yep
11:02 <Lucifer_arma> which also has a margin on it
11:02 <wrtlprnft> yeah
11:02 <wrtlprnft> why should a paragraph have a margin?
11:02 <Lucifer_arma> look at any other page on the wiki to see
11:03 <Lucifer_arma> one with headings will make the most sense
11:03 <wrtlprnft> why apply the margin to the paragraphs?
11:03 <wrtlprnft> why not apply a padding to the element containing them?
11:04 <Lucifer_arma> because a) padding is evil, and b) it would then apply to the headings
11:05 <Lucifer_arma> also, mixing html and wiki syntax is inherently a bad idea and is going to cause unpredictable results.  I thought I'd disabled raw html on the wiki....
11:05 <wrtlprnft> ?
11:06 <wrtlprnft> the code it generates is just fine
11:06 <wrtlprnft> and the monobook CSS has no trouble coping with it
11:06 <wrtlprnft> and what's evil about padding?!
11:06 <wrtlprnft> you can give the headings a negative margin
11:06 <Lucifer_arma> the fact that what I want here is margins, not padding
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> margins are treated differently than padding.
11:07 <wrtlprnft> ?
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> take two elements and put them side by side.  Give the left one a width of 40% and the right one a width of 60%
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> you see that?
11:07 <wrtlprnft> so what?
11:07 <Lucifer_arma> now, if I put padding-left on the right block, that padding gets added *between* the elements
11:08 <wrtlprnft> no
11:08 <Lucifer_arma> but if I put a margin instead, the margin is inside the block
11:08 <Lucifer_arma> so the total width is left element + padding + right element
11:08 <wrtlprnft> yeah
11:08 <wrtlprnft> which is how it should be
11:08 <Lucifer_arma> right.  so use padding when you need to space elements
11:08 <wrtlprnft> the 40% is the width of the inner block
11:09 <wrtlprnft> the padding-left gets added to that
11:09 <wrtlprnft> then the border-left-width
11:09 <Lucifer_arma> but I'm not trying to space elements, I'm trying to put a uniform indentation on paragraphs.  That's the definition of a margin.
11:09 <wrtlprnft> then the margin-left
11:09 <wrtlprnft> that's you total width
11:09 <Lucifer_arma> so I should use margin and not padding for what I'm trying to do
11:09 <wrtlprnft> then at least add a rule like
11:09 <wrtlprnft> li p {margin-left:0; margin-right:0;}
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> sure, I can do that.
11:10 <Lucifer_arma> of course, the template is in svn....
11:10 <wrtlprnft> you'd still need to update it
11:10 <wrtlprnft> and i still think these changes belong into the wiki itself
11:10 <wrtlprnft> so you can edit it from there
11:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, I would have strongly preferred to skip this whole conversation and instead hve gotten "Luci, can you update the wiki template from svn?  I fixed the margin problem with paragraphs inside lists"
11:11 <wrtlprnft> it still looks ugly, no matter what. I'm not using the arma skin because it's messed, and i've heard others complain about it too
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've asked time and time again for fixes.  Fixes > complaints.
11:12 <wrtlprnft> well, those % margins de-fix it
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> it works fine for me, and I don't have the problems others have.
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> maybe if you knew which complaint I was fixing you'd look at it differently
11:12 <wrtlprnft> that it's a huge waste of screenspace?
11:12 <Lucifer_arma> fact is, I get nothing but complaints.  Complaints are very unhelpful.
11:13 <wrtlprnft> at least if you're viewing it at a big window wisth
11:13 <Lucifer_arma> you're talking to a guy with a 60px panel on a 1024x768 monitor.  I firmly believe that whitespace is helpful
11:13 <wrtlprnft> *width
11:13 <wrtlprnft> not
11:13 <wrtlprnft> if
11:13 <wrtlprnft> it
11:13 <wrtlprnft> causes
11:13 <wrtlprnft> every
11:13 <wrtlprnft> word
11:13 <wrtlprnft> to
11:14 <wrtlprnft> wrap
11:14 <wrtlprnft> because
11:14 <wrtlprnft> the
11:14 <wrtlprnft> space
11:14 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the complaint I was fixing is that it's very difficult to follow the heading depth
11:14 <wrtlprnft> for
11:14 <wrtlprnft> text
11:14 <wrtlprnft> is
11:14 <wrtlprnft> way
11:14 <wrtlprnft> too
11:14 <wrtlprnft> small
11:14 <Lucifer_arma> you know, I'll come back when you want to do more than just bitch
11:14 <wrtlprnft> no trouble with the headings
11:14 <wrtlprnft> it's lists
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's *you*
11:22 <Lucifer_arma> and you were already a person known not to use the default skin
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> if you were the only wiki user, I'd gladly roll back those changes
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> but the fact is, I can't do anything to make this skin look better for some people without some other people bitching
11:23 <Lucifer_arma> you ever wonder why I've never bothered to try to fix things in it?  Well, now you know.
11:24 <Lucifer_arma> luckily, lackadaisical has put making a good skin for the wiki on his todo list, and when he does, it'll be there
11:25 <Lucifer_arma> jeez, I can't even reply on a talk page without you bitching about style.
11:25 <wrtlprnft> ?
11:25 <wrtlprnft> i wondered because I don't like the fact that there's like 4 different styles now, and they don't mix
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> welcome to the wide world of wikiwikiweb
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> what matters is that the communication happens, and that the article pages themselves are consistent
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> so, in fact, showing me a formatting problem on a talk page where even mediawiki's own "best practices" are violated isn't going to cause me to care
11:28 <Lucifer_arma> I've seen a few anomalies on some of the article pages caused by the margin change, but those are mostly elements that aren't indented themselves so they look a little weird
11:28 <Lucifer_arma> otherwise, I don't know, it looks fine to me.
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> the next thing we need to decide is if we want the categories to be listed below or above the article text.
11:29 <wrtlprnft> as i said, I'm not using it, but it still looks broken to me and possibly others
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> Your_mom came up with a neat template idea for navigation that might be mutually exclusive with categories at the top of the page
11:30 <Lucifer_arma> well, I know it looks broken to others, it has from the beginning.  The rule on the wiki is that if you need a higher contrast between text and background, or if you use IE or anything that's not firefox,
11:30 <Lucifer_arma> you use a different skin
11:30 <wrtlprnft> that's what i call accessible web design
11:30 <wrtlprnft> use firefox or die.
11:30 <Lucifer_arma> I considered not making this one the default skin, but then I figured if I left it the default skin, maybe people would quit bitching and send fixes
11:31 <Lucifer_arma> people for the most part have quit bitching, at least.
11:31 <wrtlprnft> not much better than IE- only pages created with frontpage, if you ask me
11:31 <Lucifer_arma> <Lucifer_arma> you use a different skin  <--- is not the same as "<wrtlprnft> use firefox or die."
11:31 <Lucifer_arma> if it were the only skin available, I'd probably care more, but it's not.
11:32 <wrtlprnft> to use a skin you need an account
11:32 <wrtlprnft> and you need to be logged in
11:32 <wrtlprnft> btw, on topic, i doubt we need a CT tactics page. They have their own site and wiki they're trying to fill with tactics already
11:33 <Lucifer_arma> we probably don't, that was put in the outline before I took inventory of what was there.  :)
11:34 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Fortress_Tactics_offense&curid=1472&diff=14752&oldid=6291 <-- mind if i remove the yadayada?
11:35 <wrtlprnft> or does it have any meaning?
11:35 <spidey> luke-jr_, .......
11:35 <wrtlprnft> spidey, ………………………………
11:35 <spidey> that shit's really annoying
11:35 <Lucifer_arma> no meaning, I did it to force the page to update the transcluded page
11:36 <Lucifer_arma> there's a list somewhere with an item that says "spurious edit".  may have been the one you just changed, heh.
11:36 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that i already did
11:36 <wrtlprnft> it said "todo: remove this"
11:37 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't feel like doing anything creative after that one, so there's "yadayada" at the bottom of at least two pages that I know I did, but I may have removed one to force it to update again
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> there's a fair amount of fresh writing that needs to be done to get the new category pages put in place of the old pages
11:38 <wrtlprnft> i only saw one yadayayda
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> I probably got the other, it was in the fortress tactics section
11:38 <Lucifer_arma> if you got the one on defense, then it was probably the one on offense I removed to force another update
11:39 <Lucifer_arma> transclusion is nice, but it really sucks that pages that cached an old transclusion don't update automatically
11:40 <wrtlprnft> what's a psyche out?!
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> I like the breadcrumb that you get with categories, though
11:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, it's like when you throw a punch at someone, then pull it halfway without hitting him and say "Psyche!"
11:41 <wrtlprnft> o_O
11:41 <wrtlprnft> i'll skip that definition and leave it to someone else
11:53 -!- Vanhayes [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034188278.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:03 <spidey> -_-
12:03 <spidey> upside, i got the house to myself all day
12:03 <spidey> downside i got 3 cigarettes left and nobody to take me to the store!
12:04 <wrtlprnft> take a bike and go there
12:05 <spidey> i don't have one
12:05 <spidey> not anymore
12:05 <wrtlprnft> your problem
12:05 <spidey> when i moved my mom left it at the old house -_-
12:05 <spidey> along with my rolling computer chair
12:05 <spidey> half of my speakers
12:06 <spidey> and other stuff -_-
12:09 <spidey> i'ma work on making my site compatible in all browsers today, i think
12:09 <spidey> it looks bad in IE
12:55 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/rainbowtest.htm
12:56 <wrtlprnft> woot
12:56 <wrtlprnft> that's NOT an image
12:56 <wrtlprnft> and not tons of <font> tags
12:57 <spidey> .....
12:57 <spidey> all you did was add a background to the text
12:57 <wrtlprnft> no
12:57 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work in IE, though
12:58 <spidey> i don't get it
12:58 <wrtlprnft> what do you see?
12:58 <spidey> why add <div id="fg"></div> it's not being used
12:59 <wrtlprnft> it is being used
12:59 <spidey> i see durka jr
12:59 <spidey> hmm
12:59 <spidey> btw
13:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/rainbowtest.png <-- this is what you *should* see
13:00 <spidey> it's fucked up in firefox to
13:00 <wrtlprnft> looks fine in my firefox
13:00 <spidey> sec
13:01 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/rainbowtestff.png
13:01 <spidey> grr
13:01 <spidey> imageshack won't let me upload
13:01 <spidey> sec
13:03 <spidey> shitty connection!
13:03 <spidey> 4k b/s
13:04 <spidey> http://fallin-angels.com/spidey/durkajr.JPG
13:04 <spidey> there
13:04 <wrtlprnft> weird
13:05 <wrtlprnft> looks like it's just ignoring the backgroound for the first three lines
13:05 <spidey> o.o
13:05 <wrtlprnft> but it still has multicolored text
13:05 <spidey> lol
13:05 <wrtlprnft> which is the whole point of the page
13:06 <spidey> wtf
13:06 <wrtlprnft> multicolored text with just two images
13:06 <spidey> here's a reloaded page
13:07 <wrtlprnft> maybe something's messed up with your firefox or it's just the fault of windows
13:08 <spidey> skjdfhskjdfh
13:09 <spidey> http://fallin-angels.com/spidey/reloaded.JPG
13:10 <spidey> that one looks better anyways
13:10 <spidey> lol
13:11 <wrtlprnft> weird
13:11 <wrtlprnft> if your connection sucks, are you sure it loaded the foreground image?
13:12 <wrtlprnft> probably firefox isn't following the spec on windows
13:12 <wrtlprnft> >The equation for computing a composited sample value is:
13:12 <wrtlprnft> >output = alpha * foreground + (1-alpha) * background
13:12 <spidey> dunno
13:12 <wrtlprnft> http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG/#13Alpha-channel-processing
13:13 <wrtlprnft> according to that spec the background should appear all gray and the text in rainbow colors
13:14 <spidey> hmm
13:14 <spidey> gotta feed dogs, brb
13:23 <spidey> hmm
13:23 <spidey> fget can use ftp protocal for opening files on remote servers can't it?
13:59 <spidey> wrtlprnft
--- Log closed Mon Aug 28 14:49:47 2006
--- Log opened Mon Aug 28 14:49:52 2006
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14:49 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
--- Log closed Mon Aug 28 15:22:37 2006
--- Log opened Mon Aug 28 15:27:42 2006
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15:28 <wrtlprnft> wrtlprnft: it should
15:28 <wrtlprnft> err
15:28 <wrtlprnft> spidey: it should
15:28 <spidey> huh?
15:28 <spidey> oh
15:28 <spidey> i got that
15:28 <wrtlprnft> 13:23 <spidey> fget can use ftp protocal for opening files on remote servers can't it?
15:28 <wrtlprnft> 13:59 <spidey> wrtlprnft
15:28 <spidey> i just have a problem
15:29 <spidey> i got that, i can make it get a single file from a ftpserver
15:29 <spidey> but, i want it to get anything with log-*.txt
15:29 <spidey> now sure how i'd add that
15:29 <wrtlprnft> umm
15:29 <wrtlprnft> i dunno if that'll work, but try opendir
15:30 <spidey> hmm
15:30  * spidey goes to read on opendir
15:30 <wrtlprnft> http://de.php.net/manual/en/function.opendir.php
15:30 <wrtlprnft> looks like it was added with php 5.0
15:30 <spidey> http://us2.php.net/function.opendir
15:30 <spidey> :p
15:30 <spidey> php3
15:31 <spidey> opendir
15:31 <spidey> (PHP 3, PHP 4, PHP 5)
15:31 <wrtlprnft> no
15:31 <wrtlprnft> look at the ChangeLog
15:31 <spidey> oh
15:34 <wrtlprnft> or, if you feel like OOP use http://de.php.net/manual/en/class.dir.php
15:35 <spidey> i'd need a webserver on the remote server wouldn't i?
15:36 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:36 <spidey> nvm
15:36 <wrtlprnft> from PHP5 on you can open ftp:// URIs with opendir
15:36 <spidey> ah
15:37 <wrtlprnft> ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß
15:38 <spidey> -_-
15:38 <wrtlprnft> ooops
15:38 <wrtlprnft> sorry, was trying to fix that key
15:38 <[dlh]> √
15:38 <guru3> wrtlprnft: what character encoding is that?
15:38 <wrtlprnft> utf-8
15:38 <guru3> underscores Oo
15:39 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:39 <guru3> that's what they are when i switch my console to utf-8
15:39 <guru3> ><
15:39 <guru3> inverted _s
15:39 <wrtlprnft> ¯¯¯¯¯¯?
15:39 <wrtlprnft> no, those were sharp s
15:39 <guru3> oh vell
15:39 <guru3> character encoding's never worked right to start with for me
15:40 <wrtlprnft> niiiiiice!
15:40 <wrtlprnft> ???ßßß? \\\\\\\\¿¿¿¿¿¿
15:40 <wrtlprnft> yay
15:40 <wrtlprnft> fixed that key
15:41 <wrtlprnft> there was some small piece of plastic under it
15:41 <wrtlprnft> that prevented it from working
15:42 <wrtlprnft> ǫş
15:42 <wrtlprnft> i didn't even know i could make those
15:43 <guru3> i don't even know what those are
15:43 <wrtlprnft> haha
15:45 <wrtlprnft> ĭšŝűŏ
15:49 <guru3> i think i'll setup a 32bit chroot for my amd64
15:50 <wrtlprnft> „YAY!“
15:50 <wrtlprnft> i managed to bind german quotation marks to keys!
15:51 <guru3> "woo"
15:51 <spidey> yay
15:51 <spidey> i suck at this :D
15:52 <wrtlprnft> let's see if i can do the same with the horizontal ellipse
15:52 <wrtlprnft> i can…
15:52 <wrtlprnft> and again, this time with an ndash :)
15:52 <spidey> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
15:52 <spidey> brb
15:59 <Lucifer_arma> yay!  if I want to go to A&M, I might have to take Fencing I and II  :)
16:07 <spidey> [28-Aug-2006 09:07:34] PHP Warning:  ftp_connect(): php_network_getaddresses: getaddrinfo failed: None 11 such host is known.  in F:\webserver\htdocs\ftp.php on line 10
16:07 <spidey> o.o
16:07 <spidey> lies
16:27 <wrtlprnft> …
16:30 <Lucifer_arma> ...
16:30 <spidey> wrtlprnft, ...
16:31 <spidey> hmm
16:31  * spidey doesn't remember typing wrtlprnft  o.o
16:38 <wrtlprnft> …
16:38 <wrtlprnft> heh, it's bound to a key now, so espect me to use it quite often :þ
16:53 <wrtlprnft> http://hotcaptcha.com/ ← what about that as captchas for the forums?
16:53 <wrtlprnft> jk
17:42 <wrtlprnft> http://directory.fsf.org/games/ ← we should be in there, really :s
18:02 <mkzelda> Lucifer_arma, you're gonna learn how to buy stolen goods and get away with it?
18:03 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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18:29 <DrJoeTron> i need to go garbage picking soon, i gotta replenish my supply of pc parts
18:32 <mkzelda> you can catch my parts as i toss them
18:32 <mkzelda> i have 16 *assembled* puters
18:33 <mkzelda> a few of those might be somewhat low on ram or small hd, but they've all got the parts needed to be complete. Then I have other parts...
18:40 <DrJoeTron> its all good
18:41 <DrJoeTron> im low on ide cables, cd drives, mobo's and cpu's
18:41 <DrJoeTron> i have alot of ram
18:41 <DrJoeTron> some of which is really early pc3200
18:42 <DrJoeTron> so it gets very picky, if i piss it off it fries the mobo
18:42 <DrJoeTron> its done this twice
19:41 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
19:49 <wrtlprnft> supybot really isn't exactly efficient on resources. It's running nonstop for a few days now, and used 12 hours CPU time!
19:50 <wrtlprnft> actually more. For some reason it has two processes (probably one for #commits and one for #armagetron) with 16 hours
20:19 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: it's Python, what do you expect?
20:20 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: where do you garbage pick computer parts?
20:41 <wrtlprnft> i thought python was so great, superior and fast you could even program 3d games in it…
20:53 <luke-jr_> fast is relative
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> supybot is a bit of a resource hog anyway
21:39 <Lucifer_arma> not necessarily python's fault, considering what it does
21:40 <Lucifer_arma> whoopee, they accepted me into the honors program :)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> o my
21:53 <wrtlprnft> not a good thing to press random keys in screen after c-a
21:54 <wrtlprnft> kinda messes things up
21:54 <wrtlprnft> test
21:54 <wrtlprnft> test again, sorry
21:55 <wrtlprnft> every line in a channel eats about one CPU second, it seems
22:19 -!- wejp_ [n=j@i577B868B.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
22:19 <DrJoeTron> luke-jr_ where do i garbage pick my parts?
22:20 <DrJoeTron> if i find one on the curb while im driving its one of those "holy crap, better nab it" type of deals
22:20 <DrJoeTron> i just have this giant bin filled with pc parts
22:25 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B8ED6.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:25 <Lucifer_arma> geez, send me some DrJoeTron 
22:26 <DrJoeTron> whatcha need?
22:26 <Lucifer_arma> a whole computer :)
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> a working motherboard for a Duron would set me, though.
22:27 <Lucifer_arma> I don't need power, I need a backup server, so I'll buy brandy-new hard drives for it, I just need a base computer to stick 'em in
22:28 <DrJoeTron> i have a celeron 500mhz micro atx
22:28 <DrJoeTron> thats just sitting here doing nothing
22:28 <DrJoeTron> i bought it for 5 bucks
22:29 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I have a celeron processor I can stick on it.
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> I sort of have a case, needs power supply.  Might be able to get that from the case with the bad duron motherboard in it
22:30 <Lucifer_arma> it has a pci slot?  does it have onboard network?  If not, needs 2 pci slots.  :)
22:33 <wrtlprnft> second. python is written in raw C? So you base a heavily object- oriented language on a non–oop one?
22:35 <DrJoeTron> it has 3 pci slots
22:35 <DrJoeTron> needs SD ram
22:36 <DrJoeTron> it was gonna be the lobster cage
22:36 <DrJoeTron> but couldnt get it to run 
22:36 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: so you just drive around and look for PCs?
22:37 <DrJoeTron> luke-jr_ not really like that, say im driving to a friends house, or to school, if one catches my eye i nab it
22:37 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: is the bytecode OO?
22:37 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: maybe run supybot in pyvm? ;)
22:38 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: well, you said it in a way that suggested actively looking-- so I asked where =p
22:38 <DrJoeTron> gomes (other lobster admin guy thing) always lucks out and finds some crazy things
22:39 <DrJoeTron> found a computer with scorch marks all over it, was from fire
22:39 <DrJoeTron> bam, lobster cage sumo
22:41 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
22:41 <DrJoeTron> btw Lucifer_arma this pc also has a power supply...i think
22:41 <DrJoeTron> lemme go check it
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah, it's a complete pc?
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, couldn't get it to run?
22:44 <DrJoeTron> well
22:44 <DrJoeTron> first i loaded windows
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> next semester I'm signing up for fencing!
22:45 <DrJoeTron> instant bad idea
22:45 <DrJoeTron> i tried mandriva
22:45 <DrJoeTron> and i got a bad kernal
22:45 <DrJoeTron> so instant failure
22:45 <DrJoeTron> yeah its pretty much a complete pc
22:45 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, kernel errors on computers like that usually indicate bad ram/bad processor
22:45 <DrJoeTron> nah it read the disc wrong
22:45 <DrJoeTron> because its on the hdd
22:46 <DrJoeTron> i just popped the hdd into the new lobster cage and gave me the same problem on startup
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you wanna send it, I can paypal the shipping to you
22:46 <Lucifer_arma> so you're pretty sure it's a bad hard drive then?  for a backup server, I'll be putting brand new hard drives in it.
22:46 <DrJoeTron> i'll put it together first, and see what about it
22:46 <DrJoeTron> i also bought this for 5 dolalrs
22:46 <DrJoeTron> so
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I've got it, don't worry :)
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> I've got like $35 in my paypal account and no linked checking account, heh
22:47 <Lucifer_arma> so it's just been sitting there....  ;)
22:47 <DrJoeTron> heh, lemme find the parts and il send it
22:48 <DrJoeTron> you WILL need a video card i think
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> umm, does it have 3 pci slots then?  only spare vid card I have is a pci card
22:48 <DrJoeTron> yes
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> wait, did you say it has onboard network?
22:48 <DrJoeTron> nope
22:48 <DrJoeTron> 3 pci, thats it
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> ok, 3 pci slots for sure.  I need one for the IDE card
22:48 <DrJoeTron> and the cpu fan needs to be replaced
22:48 <DrJoeTron> yes
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> so IDE, network, and vid card = 3 pci slots
22:49 <DrJoeTron> yeah
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> I have a spare, I have a burnt-up celeron motherboard but the processor+fan is fine
22:49 <DrJoeTron> haha 
22:49 <DrJoeTron> it was such a pain to get out of the case
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> memory, it may just be the power supply burnt up and the rest is fine, I don't really know.  But I was able to wire up my car CD player to the power supply for awhile :)
22:50 <DrJoeTron> haha :D
22:50 <DrJoeTron> needs a power supply
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> I can pick up a power supply.  I'm going to slap two hard drives in there, can grab a power supply while I'm at it.
22:52 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:52 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:52 <DrJoeTron> hmm, lemme see if thats even possible in this thing
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> does it use a standard power supply?  I have a good power supply, but it's not standard.  :(
22:52 <DrJoeTron> its standard
22:53 <DrJoeTron> this thing was probably made in 97-99
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> mini atx still fits in a regular atx case, though, right?  I have a case I can toss it in if all else fails, long as it uses standard connectors
22:53 <DrJoeTron> wait ist 400mhz
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, now that I think about it, that power supply should still be good.  It's another damn broke-ass motherboard.
22:54 <DrJoeTron> pretty much
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> used to be I had broke-ass hard drives and good motherboards, now I have good hard drives and broke-ass motherboards.
22:56 <DrJoeTron> ok im holding the mobo stuck to half of the case
22:56 <DrJoeTron> ports
22:56 <DrJoeTron> 2 ps/2, 2 USB, printer, serial, and vga
22:56 <DrJoeTron> it does have on board
22:56 <DrJoeTron> video
22:57 <DrJoeTron> CMOS battery is still good :p
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> that's convenient.  :)
22:57 <DrJoeTron> but yeah this fan
22:57 <DrJoeTron> sooo annoying
22:57 <Lucifer_arma> loud?
22:58 <DrJoeTron> more like painful loud
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> is it just a loud fan, or is it a clickety fan?
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's actually good, I need more white noise in my bedroom.
22:58 <DrJoeTron> ever spin something so fast that it vibrates?
22:58 <DrJoeTron> thats the sound this thing makes
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, don't fans always vibrate?
22:58 <DrJoeTron> like friction loud
22:58 <Lucifer_arma> oh, that's not good.  Probably a fan going bad then.
22:59 -!- Durka [n=Durka@ca-stmnca-cuda4-gen2k1-229.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #Armagetron
22:59 <DrJoeTron> i think if you just put some oil it might be better
22:59 <DrJoeTron> but still
22:59 <DrJoeTron> usually i would stop the fan and have it go again and it would be ok
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> well, I have a couple of celeron fans laying around
22:59 <DrJoeTron> yeah sao itl be no problem
22:59 <DrJoeTron> i have alot of white noise in this room :p
22:59 <DrJoeTron> my pc doubles as a sweet lawnmower
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  I keep threatening to turn my push mower into a robot lawnmower after I take my electronics class.  :)
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> speaking of whiches, I'm going to sign up for fencing in the spring!
23:00 <Durka> First time on trying this IRC thingee...just downloaded it...looks cool
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> I checked out Texas A&M, and they want 2 credit hours of KINE classes.  Don't care what as along as it's physical activity.
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> They'll take fencing as transfer credit from the community college.  So now I have justification to take fencing and have financial aid pay for it.  :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> HI Durka 
23:02  * Lucifer_arma wonders if "sex with my wife" counts as KINE credit
23:02 <DrJoeTron> 2 ram slots btw
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> um, is there ram in it?  ;)
23:02 <DrJoeTron> nah :/
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> my ram is not-so-good.  Maybe works, maybe doesn't, only one way to find out, and all my motherboards are trash so I haven't found out
23:03 <DrJoeTron> now you will!
23:03 <DrJoeTron> and Sd ram is what? cheaper than toilet paper?
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> hell, go to the junkyard and they just give it to you
23:03 <DrJoeTron> ok
23:03 <DrJoeTron> 2 die ports
23:03 <DrJoeTron> ide**
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, that's not entirely true, you have to buy something
23:03 <DrJoeTron> 1 flopper
23:03  * Durka says hi to Luci
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> floppy?!?!?
23:04 <DrJoeTron> yeah
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> you can keep that if you want :)  heh
23:04 <DrJoeTron> i already took it out
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I don't even have any floppy disks.  Instead, I have a pile of floppy drives in my garage.
23:04 <DrJoeTron> i have like 6 in my pin
23:04 <DrJoeTron> bin
23:04 <DrJoeTron> *
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I want to figure out how to make them into speakers, like that guy that used hard drive discs as speakers.
23:04 <DrJoeTron> the only thing comming to you is a mobo, cpu and case
23:05 <DrJoeTron> and a speaker so you can hear that rad "blip" sound
23:05 <DrJoeTron> unles i already took it out
23:05  * Lucifer_arma disconnects the internal speakers
23:05 <DrJoeTron> i like having one
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> always.  No telling when some kid will run over and reset the computer, and the damn things are loud!
23:05 <DrJoeTron> i need them
23:06 <DrJoeTron> especially whenever i over clock this sucker
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> hang on to it then, if you want to bother popping open the case to take it out
23:06 <DrJoeTron> i need to hear the "BAAAAAAAAAAA" when it fails
23:06 <DrJoeTron> the case is completely dismantled
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  never overclocked, myself.  I'm a little conservative when it comes to that sort of thing.
23:06 <DrJoeTron> athlon xp's beg for it
23:07 <DrJoeTron> infact you can hard mod a duron
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> only one I got is in a laptop
23:07 <DrJoeTron> witha penic ;d
23:07 <DrJoeTron> pencil*
23:07 <DrJoeTron> i guess there is a laser enscribed part on the cpu that says L2
23:08 <DrJoeTron> if you pencil it out, Bam, you have a athlon xp
23:08 <DrJoeTron> and you get the rest of your L2 cache
23:08 <DrJoeTron> but uh...might wanna use something other than stock cooling
23:09 <DrJoeTron> its real easy to over clock an xp, but they crave to be cool
23:09 <DrJoeTron> which is why mine sounds like a lawnmower
23:09 <DrJoeTron> because theres 4 fans
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> I'll just stick a garden hose inside the case
23:09 <DrJoeTron> nah, get that oil
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I'll make my daughter stand there with one of those chinese paper fans
23:10 <DrJoeTron> super overclock and chop up some taters, and stickem in
23:10 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> my 3 year old just put a backpack on and is chasing the door
23:10 <DrJoeTron> i just lost the cap to my hot sauce
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> he wants to go to class with his mom :(
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> my wife's taking 6 credit hours this semester
23:12 <DrJoeTron> im taking 13 i think
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> that's it?
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I'm taking 14 :)
23:12 <DrJoeTron> im taking 1 above the minimum for full time
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> next semester, I'm taking fencing!
23:12 -!- Luzifer [n=5484d9ed@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:12 <DrJoeTron> hah i saw
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> 12 is full-time for fafsa
23:12 <DrJoeTron> lot of my friends did
23:12 <DrJoeTron> ok there we go
23:12 <DrJoeTron> yeah
23:12 <DrJoeTron> i love my schedule
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm really excited that I get to take fencing.  :)
23:13 <DrJoeTron> back in high school we had fencing
23:13 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: Lucifer_arma: servers don't need video cards (reminder)
23:13 <DrJoeTron> we went over that he doesnt need a video card
23:13 -!- Luzifer [n=5484d9ed@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
23:13  * Lucifer_arma shows luke-jr_ the motherboard that won't even start up without a vid card
23:14 <DrJoeTron> i dont think you'll need one
23:14 <DrJoeTron> i dont remember too much from my trials with this clunker
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> nah, if it's got onboard video, it just needs to get a console, no fancy graphics needed
23:14 <DrJoeTron> you'll be good
23:14 <DrJoeTron> so yeah
23:14 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: I'm sure you could figure out a BIOS firmware hack if it was needed ;p
23:14 <Lucifer_arma> and I can toss in my pci vid card if I need to, check the BIOS to see if I can make it boot without a vid card....  :)
23:14 <DrJoeTron> so your getting a mobo, cpu, and  a super rad case
23:15 <DrJoeTron> you dont need one
23:15 <DrJoeTron> however
23:15 <DrJoeTron> hey
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> I could plug my daughter in it and have her draw the video for me
23:15 <DrJoeTron> got any spare cd drives past 1999? :D
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, not exactly.  I'm a little short on working cd drives.
23:15 <DrJoeTron> damn
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> I waited 30 minutes for Kubuntu's liveCD to boot because of the cd drive I'm reduced to right now
23:16 <DrJoeTron> i think i have a more recent one i can pull out of something
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> but this shouldn't be a problem either, it just has to boot gentoo's live cd and do enough compiling to put a ssh server on it.  I can handle the rest over the wire.
23:16 <DrJoeTron> or i can just pull the one out of my pc now and just stick it in so ican load the OS on to the new lobster cage
23:17 <DrJoeTron> how about wireless network card?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> don't put yourself out over a cd drive.  :)  I'm in bad enough shape to justify an emergency purchase, I just haven't gone and done it yet.  Some emergency.
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> is it fast wireless or slow wireless?
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> er, actually I need to know the chipset before I can give an answer to that
23:17 <DrJoeTron> its gonna be a server so probably fast preferrably
23:17 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: not even that, network boot =p
23:18 <DrJoeTron> its an intel mobo
23:18 <luke-jr_> Gentoo's LiveCD requires a video display
23:18 <luke-jr_> unless they recently changed that
23:18 <luke-jr_> a network install, however, could be done without a video display or CD drive ;)
23:18 <DrJoeTron> the new server is gonna be on a 1.8ghz P4, 512ram and 20gig hdd
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> well, I don't think I'd put the wireless card in the backup server, something tells me to use a real wire for that
23:19 <luke-jr_> heh
23:19 <DrJoeTron> nah this is gonna be the perma-server
23:19  * Lucifer_arma thinks he lost track of part of the conversation now, heh
23:19 <luke-jr_> wireless is pointless for non-laptops, IMO
23:19 <DrJoeTron> well i mean if its wireless G, and armagetron theres going to be prettly little packet loss
23:20 <luke-jr_> latency
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> depends on quite a few factors.  I don't have problems with my laptop.  :)
23:20 <DrJoeTron> especially when its less than 2ft fromt he router
23:20 <DrJoeTron> also it needs to be wireless because theres no choice but to be wireless
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it should work fine there
23:20 <luke-jr_> wireless always has higher latency than wired, I think
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> nah.  not that I've noticed anyway
23:20 <luke-jr_> why does it need to be wireless?
23:21 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: for Arma? =p
23:21 <DrJoeTron> dont have any free wired ports
23:21 <luke-jr_> Arma is a lot pickier about latency than anything else
23:21 <DrJoeTron> theres 2
23:21 <DrJoeTron> im using one
23:21 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: add a switch?
23:21 <luke-jr_> use SLIP?
23:21 <DrJoeTron> SLIP?
23:21 <luke-jr_> SLIP might add latency too tho
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> I guess I'm just talking out my ass.  I've never really played arma or run a server on this laptop I guess.
23:21 <luke-jr_> network over serial line, more or less
23:21 <DrJoeTron> it would be easier just to go wireless
23:22 <DrJoeTron> i have a modem/router
23:22 <luke-jr_> DrJoeTron: make the non-server wireless
23:22 <DrJoeTron> good call, but still need the card :p
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> that's actually the model I want to move towards, making the desktops wireless and the servers wired
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> but since I have a total of 2 runnin computers right now, desktop/server are ambiguous terms
23:22  * luke-jr_ would wire anything but a laptop
23:23 <DrJoeTron> see also
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, maybe you should come over here and run the cat-5 for me then
23:23 <DrJoeTron> im wired
23:23  * luke-jr_ has 4 computers running (not incl router)
23:23 <DrJoeTron> but through USB
23:23 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: I don't do fancy wiring =p
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> personally, I'd rather spend my time putting bigger antennae on my router than wiring cat-5
23:23 <luke-jr_> I'd rather wire cat-6
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> well, maybe you will appreciate a good, professional wiring job when your kid gets a bit bigger
23:23 <luke-jr_> wireless gets flooded if too many computers use it
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> kid goes to the hospital when he chews on the wires
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> what's worse?
23:24 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: no, I'm planning to do a professional wiring job-- just after we move, and I don't do the wall sockets =p
23:24 <DrJoeTron> my dads computer is through wireless
23:24 <luke-jr_> why would he go to the hospital? not like there's power in cat6 =p
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've got better things to do with my time than wire up a rental house, thank you.  :)
23:24 <DrJoeTron> and then occasionaly my DS 
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> because plastic is toxic?
23:24 <luke-jr_> =p
23:25 <luke-jr_> it is?
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> because swallowing little plastic bits is bad for you?
23:25 <DrJoeTron> i would think its just fiber
23:25 <luke-jr_> the outside layer is plastic I think
23:25  * Lucifer_arma notes his youngest of 3 is 3, he's been through all this before--3 times!
23:25 <luke-jr_> fiber is really just for optical stuff, isn't it? not cat-5/6
23:25 <DrJoeTron> start feeding your kids!
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> that reminds me, it's about time to cook dinner
23:26 <luke-jr_> or is plastic made of fiber? O.o
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> but nah, kids chew on shit, doesn't matter if they're hungry or not
23:26 <Lucifer_arma> especially when they're teething, and my 6yo is growing new teeth so he's going through a second phase of chewing on shit :/
23:27 <DrJoeTron> i still chew on shit
23:27 <DrJoeTron> im a manimal ;d
23:27 <DrJoeTron> like water bottle caps and what not
23:27 <luke-jr_> ...
23:28 <luke-jr_> I eat nails
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> I chew dog-jerky
23:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's like beef jerky, but it's homemade.  Much better that way.
23:31 <luke-jr_> PCI cards are yummy
23:31 <DrJoeTron> so are celerons
23:31 <DrJoeTron> am numumum
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> alright, I'm 3 for 3 now.  All of my kids are mad at me.
23:32 <DrJoeTron> i feast on teh megahurtz
23:32 <Lucifer_arma> of course, I did set out to make them mad at me.  It's the only way to get them back down to earth when the get out of control
23:32  * Lucifer_arma is going to go cook dinner now, bbiab
23:34 <DrJoeTron> ttfn
23:34 <luke-jr_> anyone know wtf binutils is?
23:38 <DrJoeTron> nope!
23:43 <spidey> it's DrJoeTron 
23:43 <spidey> deja_vu_, deja_vu_ deja_vu_ deja_vu_ deja_vu_ deja_vu_ deja_vu_ deja_vu_ 
23:44 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]
23:44 <deja_vu_> spidey: :)
23:44 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
23:45 <deja_vu> how are you? :P
23:46 <DrJoeTron> you cant prove its me
23:53 <DrJoeTron> war rock anyone?
23:58 <spidey> :p
23:58 <spidey> sure
23:58 <spidey> me
23:58 <spidey> in a minute

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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