Log from 2006-08-07:
--- Day changed Mon Aug 07 2006
00:00 <wrtlprnft> back.
00:00 <philippeqc> wrt!
00:00 <wrtlprnft> ph!
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> there is one and only one situation where the rexec thing is a problem for us, and that's when we have clients downloading "random" code off the net and running it
00:00 <wrtlprnft> uh, let me read my hilights
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> in all other cases, a sandbox is not needed
00:00 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@70.88.244.226] has left #armagetron []
00:00 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@70.88.244.226] has joined #armagetron
00:00 <Lucifer_arma> but why should I bother talking about it?  I've "solved" this problem for us many times before, and I can't solve the attitude problem.
00:01 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: you like efficiency, right? Base* is more efficient than BasePtr and why not use it where it's safe to do so?
00:01 <Luke-Jr> without allowing the server to send code, it can't send expressions, so it wouldn't help anything
00:01 <philippeqc> but what is blocking me from making a server with a hacked map, opening it up, waiting for 1 unsuspicious person to come and get hacked in, and remove it for ever?
00:01 <wrtlprnft> passing a Base const & is perfectly safe as long as the function doesn't store it
00:01 <Lucifer_arma> get hacked in how?
00:01 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: all the functions do store it, IIRC
00:01 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: did you get any results with gcc 3.4?
00:02 <wrtlprnft> 23:17 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: if calling your math parser from the map parser. for callback function, I tried with functions that where local to the parser, and static method to an object. Everything fails. Got any idea?
00:02 <wrtlprnft> that solved yet?
00:02 <wrtlprnft> 23:29 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: why not use nc -u to send it to nowhere? :x
00:02 <wrtlprnft> didn't think of that
00:02 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: yes, but I needed to compile it without debug or code level
00:02 <wrtlprnft> 23:34 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: ping
00:02 <philippeqc> its commited
00:02 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: pong
00:02 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: did you read the tValue reorganization idea thing
00:03 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: security exploit of some sort, I'm not aware of the full problem, so I used a wide term
00:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, wide terms aren't going to work this out.
00:03 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: nice it helped :)
00:03 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: Most funcs taking a Base* do store it-- is the assumption to be that they keep it?
00:04 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: yeah, thanks
00:04 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: no, i didn't read anything yet
00:04 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: what was your answer again about "making zone move"
00:04 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I left it with armabot for you last night
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=76811#76811  <--- nobody's responded to this, for all I've ignored people have just ignored it
00:04 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: store it how? past the lifetime of the function?
00:04 <wrtlprnft> ah, yeah, that
00:04 <wrtlprnft> didn't i reply to that?
00:04 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: most turn it into a BasePtr for an argument
00:04 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: nope
00:04 <Lucifer_arma> er
00:05 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=76811#76811  <--- nobody's responded to this, for all I *know* people have just ignored it
00:05 <wrtlprnft> 10:58 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: why replace anything? Base * are only used in spots where it's safe to use them
00:05 <wrtlprnft> 11:02 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: tValue::Callback will be legacy and doesn't really need to be parsed by the parser. varmap_t, funcmap_t and cb_ptr don't have anything to do with the tValue hierarchy, they're just used by the legacy tValue types
00:05 <wrtlprnft> sure i replied :s
00:05 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: what is exactly the rexec module?
00:05 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: oh, so you meant it's all good other than that?
00:06 <wrtlprnft> i'm not sure if it will great to require windows users to install python
00:06 <wrtlprnft> it's kind of a big dependency
00:06 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: sure
00:06 <wrtlprnft> as long as you fix the code that's using it :P
00:07 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: I'm asking because I get the feeling zones can be the ball that start scripting. The only problem is that the first thing I was hoping to do with it, is to make zones move in circle.
00:08 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: Most funcs taking a Base* do store it-- should everything assume if Base* is an arg, the function will consume it?
00:08 <wrtlprnft> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/armagetronad?view=rev&revision=6006
00:08 <philippeqc> as you point to keep out of client downloadable items, that leaves pre-furnished client items and server side scripting
00:08 <wrtlprnft> now we're so far we don't get any log message from Luke-Jr ?!
00:09 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: do you have an example of such a function?
00:09 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: most constructors?
00:10 <wrtlprnft> I don't see any...
00:10 <wrtlprnft> or, well
00:11 <wrtlprnft> things in tValue::Func take it
00:11 <Luke-Jr> O.o
00:11 <wrtlprnft> but I didn't do these and have no idea what they are supposed to do :P
00:11 <Luke-Jr> maybe just as return values, then
00:12 <wrtlprnft> yes, return values
00:12 <wrtlprnft> that's save as long as the function who receives it takes care of it
00:12 <wrtlprnft> either deletes it after use or save it in a BasePtr
00:12 <wrtlprnft> *safe
00:12 <Luke-Jr> so I should just make arglist and such use BasePtr
00:13 <wrtlprnft> if you like to
00:13 <wrtlprnft> if it makes sense
00:14 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: wtf is myCol and such?
00:14 <wrtlprnft> #g tan(1/2)
00:14 <armabot> tan(1 / 2) = 0.54630249
00:15 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: ask philippeqc 
00:15 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: fyi, If you move the blah code outside of tValue.cpp, it no longer work as expected.
00:15 <philippeqc> yep
00:15 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: uh, guess i have to look into that
00:15 <philippeqc> ok
00:15 <philippeqc> going to bed soon
00:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure I'm tired of stagnation, and I see a lot of it here
00:16 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: wtf is myCol and such?
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> fact is, we'll staticly link any scripting system JUST LIKE BLENDER DOES so users won't need to install it
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> developers will, of course
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> the rexec module is the sandbox module that prevents "unsafe" code from being executed
00:16 <Luke-Jr> why don't we just statically link EVERYTHING?
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> it wraps file open calls and a few other things that are known to be exploitable
00:17 <wrtlprnft> I'm just getting tired of these discussions
00:17 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: dont forget that not everybody has your understanding of what scripting in python means.
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> we have to address the problem at some point when we make it possible for the game to download automatically any scripting code it needs
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> we don't need it until then
00:17 <wrtlprnft> let everyone do their own and see what works best
00:17 <Luke-Jr> just keep Python in a branch
00:17 <Luke-Jr> please
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> this is a problem for any scripting language we have, and all we relaly know is that ruby claims to have one that works
00:17 <Lucifer_arma> the only one I know of that's actually time-tested and somewhat proven is Java's
00:18 <wrtlprnft> do we even need something full- blown?
00:18 <wrtlprnft> i say something with very basic abilities is enough
00:18 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I don't think so
00:18 <wrtlprnft> and it will only have the abilities we give it
00:18 <Luke-Jr> and anything full-blown will need to be restricted to something less
00:18 <Luke-Jr> before it's safe
00:18 <wrtlprnft> so no sandboxing needed
00:19 <[dlh]> Lua and Io were designed for that :S
00:19 <Luke-Jr> tValue could be a scripting language by adding a few constructs and variables
00:19 <[dlh]> Lua has swig support, too. Io doesn't.
00:19 <Lucifer_arma> so was java and activex, but afaik, activex still isn't safe, and it took a few years before java was
00:19 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: i can tell you why it won't work if you go outside the tValue namespace with it :P
00:19 <Luke-Jr> ActiveX was not designed to be safe
00:20 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: you have to prefix Expr with tValue::
00:20 <wrtlprnft> i guess that was me being to lazy :(
00:20 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: done that
00:20 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: statically linked scripts?
00:20 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: yeah, i see
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> no, the interpreter will be statically linked
00:21 <wrtlprnft> compiles but segfaults
00:21 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: he wants to static-link Python
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> or it'll be dynamically linked and we ship the dll that contains it
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> it's a reasonable dependency on linux, most people already have it
00:21 <Lucifer_arma> gentoo users (i.e. the ones that are complaining) already depend on it because emerge is written in python
00:21 <Luke-Jr> but it's still unsafe, and much more than we need
00:21 <philippeqc> but what does that mean? that the actuall capacity of our engine are limited to a safe sub-set
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> pretty much, in a nutshell
00:22 <Luke-Jr> unless you find a way to restrict it, in which case, tValue can suffice almost as well
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> it means that if we allow scripts to open files, we have to make sure it can't open (for example) /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow
00:23 <philippeqc> so we could have a "zone move in circle" engine capacity, or would it be a "basic math parser" to wich I feed the proper equation?
00:23 <Lucifer_arma> it means we have to monitor network activity of scripts to make sure they're not downloading code we don't know about
00:23 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: it seems to only be failing if you try to pass it a function
00:23 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: yes, sorry, forgot to mention that
00:23 <wrtlprnft> np
00:23 <Luke-Jr> also, Python doesn't help latency problems
00:23 <wrtlprnft> actually it only fails if you pass it a function and then use it
00:23 <Luke-Jr> unless the code is executed on the client
00:25 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: in your  idea of first round scripting, could you give me some examples that would be "client sided"
00:25 <Luke-Jr> BTW, XMPP has 5 RFCs now =p
00:25 <Luke-Jr> the latest being 4622
00:25 <Lucifer_arma> UI mostly
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> also, animating models in a custom fashion
00:26 <philippeqc> ok, thats relatively static (UI)
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> to be honest, in my ideal first round of scripting, there's no client side scripting anyway
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's all server side, that's where people have been asking for it for as long as I can remember
00:27 <philippeqc> yes, I understand that, but I'm not very server interested myself, so I need to find my motivation ;)
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, the only use case that anybody has put forth is when you do something on the server that requires the client to simulate it
00:27 <Lucifer_arma> if the client doesn't have to simulate it, it doesn't need it
00:28 <philippeqc> everything that is round/mathc tournament and such falls perfectly into scripting
00:28 <philippeqc> of that sort
00:28 <wrtlprnft> maybe add scripting to the client and server, but keep them separate?
00:28 <wrtlprnft> so the server can't tell the client to run a script and vice versa
00:28 <Lucifer_arma> it does, but ti's all stuff that only the server needs
00:28 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: myCol: to view tValue::Base as collections
00:29 <Lucifer_arma> and if only the server needs it, rexec isn't needed
00:29 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6008 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gCycle.h gCycleMovement.cpp gCycleMovement.h):
00:29 <armabot> armagetronad: Got rid of quite a lot of raycasts by caching the result of the rubber raycast
00:29 <armabot> armagetronad: (from the cycle to the front) during a single simulation frame when nothing can
00:29 <armabot> armagetronad: jump into the cycle's path. The cycle position extrapolation code also uses the
00:29 <armabot> armagetronad: cached data.
00:30 <wrtlprnft> better make raycasts more effective :P
00:30 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: he wants scripting to replace tValue stuff
00:30 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: that would be the point
00:30 <philippeqc> too
00:31 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: and if the server can't give the client code, lag problems continue
00:31 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: you can't replace tValue if it's server-only
00:31 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: as collections?
00:31 <philippeqc> yes
00:31 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: the server can give approximations
00:31 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: explain?
00:32 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the server can't predict the future if the script is Python
00:32 <philippeqc> a collection: list, array, vector, deque, etc are all collection
00:32 <Luke-Jr> nor can it rewind to the past
00:32 <philippeqc> now the tValue can manipulate that type of data
00:32 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: so why can't you just do std::vector<Base>?
00:33 <philippeqc> so you can have intersection and union and similar tasks
00:33 <wrtlprnft> BasePtr if anything
00:33 <wrtlprnft> a vector of Base is boring as it just contains dummies
00:33 <philippeqc> so it acts as a Base class too
00:35 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: so it's more or less arrays-for-tValue?
00:35 <philippeqc> nope, 
00:35 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:35 <philippeqc> its tValue that hold a collection
00:35 <Lucifer_arma> here's a use case for scripting that doesn't require rexec
00:35 <philippeqc> and you can do collection operation on it
00:36 <Luke-Jr> it's an array construct for the tValue 'language', tho, right?
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> let's say I decided to run a server again, and I made it just like the old bugfarm fortress
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> I want AIs that can play fortress, and I want it to be 8 humans against 8 AIs
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> So I write my own custom AIs that can play fortress using scripting
00:36 <Lucifer_arma> same api that makes that possible also makes it possible to make a ball zone
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> the client doesn't need that stuff, it doesn't simulate AIs, it gets those as regular players
00:37 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: that works if you don't want to *improve* on lag maybe; with rexec, the clients could almost perfectly predict those AIs
00:37 <Luke-Jr> (someone repeat that plz)
00:37 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: looks like mathexpr expects the arrays it gets to stay in memory :S
00:37 <wrtlprnft> i'll take care of it
00:37 <Lucifer_arma> I want to store statistics to a mysql database.  Client doesn't need that either
00:38 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: that should be C++ code
00:38 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: also, I was not able to do "time+2", that returned 0 too, even right away
00:38 <Lucifer_arma> I want the game to interact with a web application so I can control a tournament with it.  Guess what?  Client doesn't need that either.
00:38 <philippeqc> ok Lucifer_arma , I start to understand
00:38 <Luke-Jr> yay Lucifer_arma got a legit use case!
00:39 <Luke-Jr> on his 3rd try
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, the client can play any game object that's not a cycle without needing to know anything about it besides the physics in teh game (which don't require scripting by themselves) and the model it needs to do it
00:39 <Luke-Jr> but it could still be done with C++
00:39 <philippeqc> lucifer, Luke-Jr said: yay Lucifer_arma got a legit use case!
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> engine's not yet flexible enough for that, it does assume the player is a cycle
00:39 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: if you're gonna repeat that one, repeat the ones before it
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr's a fucking idiot.  I've given these same exact use cases at least 3 times on the forums.  He can't read?
00:39 <Lucifer_arma> he hasn't given a single use case, just "it's useless because I have a stick up my ass"
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going somewhere else, I'm tired of repeating myself.  have a good day guys
00:40 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: yes we could do that in C++, but thats the problem: WE would have to do it. not somebody else!
00:40 <Luke-Jr> screw Lucifer_arma; tValue is better than Python for Arma's purposes
00:40 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: somebody else can too
00:40 <Luke-Jr> it's open source
00:41 <Luke-Jr> if they can't code C++, they can learn it or hire someone who does
00:41 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: thanks for the recap, sorry I used up your patience
00:41 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: sometime I dont know where you go and get those ideas!
00:41 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: FSF?
00:42 <philippeqc> moron!
00:42 <Luke-Jr> ...
00:42 <philippeqc> you dont want john random server admin to have to understand the full klunk of code so he can make a "best of 3" match.
00:42 <Luke-Jr> there is no good reason to support non-native code for that sort of thing
00:43 <Luke-Jr> you don't need to understand all the code to add to it
00:43 <philippeqc> yes
00:43 <philippeqc> and you pollute the code with small variations rather than offering a clean interface to the mecanism
00:43 <philippeqc> check gGame.cpp
00:43 <philippeqc> move that out of there to scripts
00:43 <Luke-Jr> the purpose of an interpretor is to run code determined based on runtime factors
00:44 <Luke-Jr> such as the client getting code from the server
00:44 <philippeqc> lets have a huge library of scripts, and let people change them at their leisure
00:44 <Luke-Jr> gGame.cpp can be cleaned up, sure, but scripting doesn't help that
00:44 <philippeqc> yes, clean it up to the bare bone
00:44 <Luke-Jr> you're suggesting rewriting the game in Python
00:44 <philippeqc> expose the mecanism, but dont have the logic
00:44 <philippeqc> move that to scripts
00:45 <Luke-Jr> Logic doesn't need a whole scripting language
00:45 <Luke-Jr> it just needs tValue-like stuff
00:45 <philippeqc> let the script decide how many rounds are required to have a match based on runtime data
00:45 <Luke-Jr> yes, but you don't need Python for that
00:46 <philippeqc> and for deciding which player goes in which team?
00:46 <Luke-Jr> just make END_OF_MATCH a config item in the new config structure, and set it to whatever you need
00:46 <philippeqc> I want a minotaur setup
00:46 <Luke-Jr> the new config structure has per-player config settings
00:46 <Luke-Jr> so you can set philippeqc's texture different from everyone else
00:47 <Luke-Jr> or his team based on different picking algo
00:47 <philippeqc> END_OF_MATCH = BEST_7_OF_15_BUT_NOW_MORE_THAN_3_CONSECUTIVE_WINS_FOR_THE_SAME_TEAM
00:47 <philippeqc> ?????
00:47 <philippeqc> minotaur is not texture, its a 2 team vs 1 player
00:47 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: you haven't used up my patience, don't know that you can.  :)  I'm just generally sick of saying the same things over and over, having them dismissed without any clear thought of what I've said, etc.
00:48 <Lucifer_arma> it's just a plain fact that the only time clients need to know the same things the server knows are when the underlying physics have changed, or special animation logic is needed
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> we need to generalize everything else in C++ anyway, otherwise scripting can't extend it, and clients still don't need it.
00:49 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r6009 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tools/ (tValue.cpp tValue.h):
00:49 <armabot> armagetronad: Fixed a problem with tValue::Expr philippeqc pointed out. The arrays that are
00:49 <armabot> armagetronad: passed to mathexpr are now kept alive for as long as the object. Adds another
00:49 <armabot> armagetronad: grade of ugly C pointer juggling to it, but it isn't visible from the outside.
00:49 <Lucifer_arma> I realize this isn't "obvious" the way I make it sound like.
00:49 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: try now
00:49 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: the number of possibilities I can come up with are countless, and even if you start to break them into categories, I'll come up with new one that brake those categories. So instead of aiming for the huge switch case of all game modes, moving that out of the engive makes the "hard" developers life easier, and allows for "soft" developers to contribute
00:50 <Lucifer_arma> but it's also what made fortress and sty possible in the first place, so it's a lesson learned already from back when fortress was created.
00:50 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: the new config tree + tValue will solve all your use cases
00:51 <wrtlprnft> If you let plugins dig too deep into the engine you'll run into trouble
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> so what I say then is that we work on the 90% of stuff that doesn't require the client to have the same script the server uses,
00:51 <wrtlprnft> scripters won't know exactly what they're doing
00:51 <wrtlprnft> there'll be lots of incompatible scripts that break with new versions
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> by the time we're done with that, then either python's rexec module is fixed, or we're happy and realize we don't need more
00:51 <wrtlprnft> it will be slow as hell
00:51 <wrtlprnft> just look at firefox
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> if neither of those are true, we can get one of the several patches that are out there that fix pythn's rexec module and use them, or we can apply our own fix
00:52 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6010 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/network/nNetObject.cpp: Clear the list of deleted objects a bit safer.
00:52 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: I guess my part in reanimating the debate is my strong interess in that 10%
00:52 <Lucifer_arma> that may be, but write out exactly what you want, I'm willing to bet most of what you want isn't in that 10% at all.
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> I know you're pretty thorough in your own thoughts, and I could be wrong about it, but the impression I'm getting pretty much across the board is that most folks around here
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> haven't completely thought out what they want in terms of what's needed to make it happen
00:53 <Lucifer_arma> it's easy to think yourself into a minority case, but actually very hard to put yourself into it
00:53 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: I'd have to give it better thoughts. my mind is shutting down and I had my nose into trying to animate the zones... that makes me really biased
00:53 <philippeqc> s/me/my current interests/
00:54 <philippeqc> i really see the value, even though I often forget it.
00:54 <philippeqc> ;)
00:54 <philippeqc> (of the 90%)
00:54 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: how much of Python scripting will break when admins try to use multiple scripts?
00:54 <Luke-Jr> (not designed to complement each other)
00:54 <wrtlprnft> what about using both in some way? we could have the server run dangerous python sctips that would be able to send simple formulas and programs for object movement to the clinet
00:54 <wrtlprnft> *client
00:55 <wrtlprnft> and have the python dependency only on the server, and only optional (you can run a server without it)
00:55 <Lucifer_arma> well, actually, wrtlprnft , that is the current plan, afaik
00:55 <wrtlprnft> ok, i guess i'm not up to the discussion right now and tired too
00:55 <wrtlprnft> #night
00:56 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> it's a pretty old discussion, you'll have to dig through lots of posts to find it, sorry.  :(
00:56 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: Match.End == Round.End && (Team.WonRounds.Consecutive >= 3 || Team.WonRounds >= 7)
00:56  * Lucifer_arma notes that the posts where it was determined, if in drupal, could be moved to actual pages, eliminating the need to search the forums for them
00:56 <Lucifer_arma> now I'm off to wash dishes and get dinner going
00:57 <philippeqc> lol, but then you need to add all of these in case someone whats one of them, 
00:57 <philippeqc> ok
00:57 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: you assume compile-time functions only
00:57 <philippeqc> cya Lucifer_arma 
00:57 <philippeqc> I wont be online long
00:57 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: consider that the 'script' can also define new stuff like Team.WonRounds
00:58 <Luke-Jr> or RoundList.Consecutive
00:59 <[dlh]> "Lucifer_arma: and if only the server needs it, rexec isn't needed" -> why? Even if it only runs on the server it still should be sandboxed.
00:59 <Luke-Jr> [dlh]: it's not automatic, the admin has had a chance to look it over
00:59 <philippeqc> [dlh]: as a server admin, you hand pick the scripts you decide to run
01:00 <[dlh]> yes, but a sandbox would ensure nothing "bad" happens.
01:00 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: its so that is is possible to have new interest "I want to track the number of consecutive wins" that scripting is interesting
01:00 <Luke-Jr> [dlh]: so run the whole program in a sandbox
01:00 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: you can do that with tValue+DTC (dynamic tree config)
01:01 <philippeqc> [dlh]: at the moment, in that scenario, running unknown scripts would be dangerous, as the sandbox is broken.
01:01 <[dlh]> Not in Ruby. ;)
01:01 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: but that makes the engine heavy, slow, big, all things that you dont like
01:02 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: no heavy, slow, or big than Python woukld
01:02 <Luke-Jr> no more*
01:02 <philippeqc> the fast gain and quick turn around gained by script vastly superceed the cost
01:03 <Luke-Jr> you think adding scripting will be fast and simple?
01:04 <philippeqc> if you didnt need to patch the code to run pig's soccer game, how many other such ideas would we have
01:04 <Luke-Jr> you assume again that only Python solves that
01:04 <philippeqc> never said that, but some of the best stuff are always long to start
01:04 <Luke-Jr> DTC+tValue also does
01:05 <philippeqc> #night
01:05 <armabot> Good night philippeqc!
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01:05 <Luke-Jr> the only real gain Python would give us is a compiled bytecode like I was planning for tCode
01:05 <Luke-Jr> which everyone insisted was unnecessary
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01:31 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6011 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gCycleMovement.cpp:
01:31 <armabot> armagetronad: Clear rubber raycast cache after turns (duh).
01:31 <armabot> armagetronad: Clear edge smart pointers of rubber raycast cache after timestep is done.
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> [dlh]: in your example, running in a sandbox to "ensure security" is buying a bad insurance policy.  Server admins will *think* the scripts they're running are safe, and that even if they do dangerous things, the sandbox will protect them
01:35 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not compeltely disagreeing with you, though.
01:50 <[dlh]> I'm suggesting it as another layer of security on top of reading the script. We should do all we can to help stop malicious code from being executed. People make mistakes sometimes.
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01:56 <[dlh]> Hmm, 0.2.8 is really unstable for me now.
01:57 <Luke-Jr> O.o?
02:02 <[dlh]> ahh, it just crashed again
02:14 <Luke-Jr> we appear to only have 1 master server up?
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07:50 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 pound in USD
07:50 <armabot> 1 British pound = 1.8933 U.S. dollars
08:17 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/Durka/fortress/4_team_fortress-0.0.2.aamap.xml: Resource by Durka
08:43 <guru3> 33 on sf today
08:44 <Lucifer_arma> wow
08:45 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: could you change the paypal button on the wiki to the support this project button?
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> I just scored another client, don't know how much money he'll be worth but it looks ok
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> guru3: I could.  :)  But now would be the time to point out that if it were to be changed in svn, armabot would update it
08:46 <guru3> Oo
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> the theme on the wiki is in svn, and when a commit message appears, armabot runs svn update on the wiki
08:47 <guru3> oky
08:49 <guru3> and we're aparently the #3 game on sf.net
08:49 <guru3> at least today
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> no, we're the #1 game on sf.net, they just don't know it yet
08:56 <guru3> that's the spirit
08:57 <guru3> now... how to get the one master server to ping the others...
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't it do it automatically?
09:02 <guru3> doesn't look like it
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> i.e. just start your local master server
09:02 <guru3> it doesn't look like i'm getting thru to master1-3 at all
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, I dont' have to do anything special to make mine work, but it is one of the "official" master servers
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> really?  Does that mean mine is #4?
09:02 <guru3> yours is #2
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> I just restarted it!
09:03 <guru3> i do ping master2.armagetronad.net
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> localhost .ssh # /etc/init.d/armagetronad-master status
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> Checking for service armagetronad master: OK
09:03 <guru3> and it goes off into the never lands
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> localhost .ssh # ping master2.armagetronad.net
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> PING wiki.davefancella.com (63.246.177.233) 56(84) bytes of data.
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com (63.246.177.233): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.872 ms
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com (63.246.177.233): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.762 ms
09:04 <guru3> can you ping me?
09:04 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o guru3] by ChanServ
09:04 -!- guru3 changed the topic of #armagetron to: 0.2.8.2.1 has been released! | http://armagetronad.net/ | Watch out for ~walls from the future~ !!!
09:04 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o guru3] by guru3
09:04 <guru3> after 25 hops pings to you drop off the end of the earth
09:04 <guru3> at 66.68.2.30
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> localhost .ssh # ping 66.68.2.30
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> PING 66.68.2.30 (66.68.2.30) 56(84) bytes of data.
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from 66.68.2.30: icmp_seq=1 ttl=254 time=8.45 ms
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from 66.68.2.30: icmp_seq=2 ttl=254 time=6.83 ms
09:05 <guru3> ping electricpotential.net
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> localhost .ssh # ping electricpotential.net
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> PING electricpotential.net (81.231.230.95) 56(84) bytes of data.
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from 81-231-230-95-no21.tbcn.telia.com (81.231.230.95): icmp_seq=1 ttl=38 time=177 ms
09:05 <guru3> oky
09:05 <guru3> what ports do you have open for the master?
09:05 <guru3> 4533
09:05 <guru3> anything else?
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> I've got 4533->4539 open
09:08 <guru3> anyway to check if my script is actually reaching your server?
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> ok, so I need a commandline option that means "source", and another one that means "sync"
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> sure, try it now
09:09 <guru3> just pinged
09:09 <guru3> from the script i mean
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> well, nothing appeared in big_brother
09:09 <guru3> not sure if it would
09:10 <guru3> as it's not the game
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> ok, try again
09:11 <guru3> just did
09:11 <guru3> like 5 times in a row fast
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:08] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:12 <guru3> i guess something works
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:11] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:12] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:12] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:12] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:12] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:13 <guru3> looks like something changed in the query protocol
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:40] [17] Killing user 17, ping 1.25.
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:13:40] [17] Giving server info to user 17
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> normally it shows a login and stuff, but it's not for you
09:13 <guru3> from when i wrote it
09:13 <guru3> damnit
09:14 <guru3> i don't want to have to hack the master server protocol again
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:15:24] [1] Received login from 80.135.15.113:4536 via socket *.*.*.*:4533.
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:15:24] [1] New user: 1
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> [2006/08/07 02:15:26] [1] Updated server: 80.135.15.113:4536
09:14 <guru3> that'd be me
09:14 <guru3> so i guess that works
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> why don't you look at writing a little C++ program instead, that uses the query code directly?  Then you can have it output the servers to a file.
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> Add a second program that pings the servers themselves and outputs *that* toa  file.  Then your script just reads the files...
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> or one program that does it all, but having it as two programs means we could use the second to ping our own servers as a monitoring tool :)
09:16 <guru3> i tried that before
09:16 <guru3> and the query code within armagetron
09:16 <guru3> makes almost no sense
09:16 <guru3> (at least to me)
09:16 <Luke-Jr> FWIW, only master #1 works from here, it seems
09:19 <guru3> geh
09:19 <guru3> i get a totally different response from yours and zman's master server
09:19 <guru3> than iF's
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> so, I have two command line options.  One means "source" and the other means "sync".  Both need -s .  Got an alternative?
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> um, iF's is probably an older version.  Mine's a fairly recent svn update, his is probably a release
09:20 <guru3> could you change source to fetch?
09:20 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: -. for source? =p
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> well, source usually means a local directory
09:20 <guru3> that meaning of source
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> it's a backup tool
09:20 <guru3> then use local
09:20 <Lucifer_arma> duh, heh.  ok, thanks :)
09:20 <Luke-Jr> lol
09:21 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, gnight
09:21 <guru3> gargh
09:21 <Luke-Jr> wtf?
09:21 <guru3> why is there no ebuild for ethereal
09:21 <Luke-Jr> ethereal no longer exists
09:21 <Luke-Jr> it's "wireshark" now
09:21 <guru3> that would explain it
09:21 <Luke-Jr> or smth like that
09:22 <guru3> thnx
09:22 <guru3> food now
09:22 <guru3> bbl
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, source could be remote too.  I'm not going to worry about it right now, though.
09:25 <guru3> back
09:25 <guru3> had a pastry
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09:44 <guru3> fixed it
09:45 <guru3> seems like the query packet changed some
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16:38 <GodTodd> #later tell Lucifer_arma What're your feelings on novel excerpts for the site?
16:38 <armabot> GodTodd: The operation succeeded.
16:39 <GodTodd> #later tell Lucifer_arma Also...I was noticing the low visibility of the login box...should that be moved up?  Perhaps between the quote box and the sitemap box?  Just a thought :)
16:39 <armabot> GodTodd: The operation succeeded.
16:39 <DrJoeTron> I think something bad happened to invader >.>
16:40 <GodTodd> what's invader? :)
16:41 <DrJoeTron> arma guy
16:41 <GodTodd> ah
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17:03 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6012 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/engine/eTeam.cpp: Fixed team reballancing, TEAMS_MAX and TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS are both honored.
17:15 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
17:15 <ghableska> hi
17:15 <philippeqc> hi
17:16 <flea> hi
17:36 <DrJoeTron> so uh...guys. wanna go do somethin?
17:36 <linuxlizzard> hehe
17:37 <DrJoeTron> i think tyler is free
17:37 <DrJoeTron> but uh, i uh think he's grounded
17:37 <DrJoeTron> zack is away on vacation for the next 2 weeks
17:39 <DrJoeTron> its like being in a room filled with bored teenagers
17:39 <DrJoeTron> :D
17:39 <DrJoeTron> everyone is here, yet there is nothing to talk about
17:40 <linuxlizzard> yep yep
17:40 <DrJoeTron> and this torrent is taking its time!
17:41 <DrJoeTron> wow alot of people use bitcomet
17:41 <DrJoeTron> then azureus, then utorrent
17:41 <DrJoeTron> i love utorrent so much
17:42 <DrJoeTron> so much better than azureus
17:42 <linuxlizzard> meh but azureus is made with java :P
17:43 <flea> ktorrent is nice
17:45 <flea> net-p2p/ktorrent-1.2 merged.
17:49 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6013 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gWall.cpp: Moved setting of end time to after outdated checkpoints get deleted; the new end time would be ignored otherwise in some cases.
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6014 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (14 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 5970 to 6012:
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  r6012 | z-man | 2006-08-07 17:04:47 +0200 (Mon, 07 Aug 2006) | 1 line
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  Fixed team reballancing, TEAMS_MAX and TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS are both honored.
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  r6011 | z-man | 2006-08-07 01:32:57 +0200 (Mon, 07 Aug 2006) | 2 lines
17:56 <guru3> meep
17:56 <guru3> we've passed revision 6000
17:57 <philippeqc> yes, z-man did it yesterday ;)
17:58 <guru3> oh vell
18:00 <wrtlprnft> maybe you'll be in time for number 7000 :p
18:00 <guru3> well
18:00 <guru3> i won't miss the forums 50000 for sure
18:01 <wrtlprnft> heh
18:02 <philippeqc> guys, if from a zZone receiving I wanted to create a sub-class, but I needed to determine that from data received from the network, how could I do that?
18:03 <philippeqc> in a less cryptic fashion: using the writeSync and ReadSync of a class, I want to make another class (no parental relation) 
18:04 <wrtlprnft> transfer an extra byte somewhere? that makes for 255 different subclasses
18:04 <philippeqc> and switch case from that 
18:05 <philippeqc> or make a map of possible class name, get a string, and do like you do for the cockpit (factory)
18:05 <philippeqc> ok, I was just curious if there was another way
18:05 <philippeqc> a smarter way
18:05 <philippeqc> as that one doesnt really fit with the current schema
18:06 <philippeqc> but I cant make that class a eNetGameObject
18:06 <wrtlprnft> I don't use factories in the cockpit...
18:06 <wrtlprnft> ask z-man, I don't do network code :P
18:06 <philippeqc> map<string, f_ptr> ?
18:07 <wrtlprnft> or map<char, f_ptr>
18:07 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: I was going to that solution, but I wanted to bounce that idea off somebody before
18:07 <philippeqc> ok, no factory, its callbacks. sorry
18:07 <wrtlprnft> you probably don't wanna transfer strings over the network
18:07 <philippeqc> I'll have to anyway
18:07 <wrtlprnft> factories are supposed to be used as callbacks :P
18:08 <philippeqc> hopefull short strings
18:08 <wrtlprnft> http://beta.armagetronad.net/resource-browser/resource/Durka/fortress/4_team_fortress-0.0.2.aamap.xml
18:08 <wrtlprnft> he uploaded it :)
18:09 <philippeqc> neat
18:09 <wrtlprnft> ed should upload his newer maps
18:09 <wrtlprnft> too
18:09 <philippeqc> i hope I didnt scare that other guy away with my stupid comment about 4 team balancing
18:09 <wrtlprnft> or maybe ask Luke-Jr to do a bulk upload
18:12 <wrtlprnft> or maybe Luke-Jr should just do a bulk upload since the license is "do with it what you want"
18:12 <wrtlprnft> and the resource browser would benefit from the additional maps
18:12 <philippeqc> i still havent looked how to send new dtd
18:12 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: just change the upload script to allow it for you :P
18:13 <philippeqc> thats the thing!
18:18 <DrJoeTron> linuxlizard but thats exactly the problem with azureus
18:19 <DrJoeTron> it has 2 more things opened and taking more resources
18:19 <DrJoeTron> you have java and the client it self running
18:19 <DrJoeTron> and utorrent is only 120kb :p
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18:54 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/Durka/fortress/4_team_fortress-0.0.3.aamap.xml: Resource by Durka
18:56 <linuxlizzard> wwdc starts in three minutes if anybody here cares about apple
18:57 <DrJoeTron> if its about apple going out of business
18:57 <DrJoeTron> im totally watching
18:58 <linuxlizzard> haha
18:58 <linuxlizzard> its about apple and their latest ploys that we all know will fail misrably ;_
18:58 <linuxlizzard> latest news - "spontaneous crowd applause - false alarm"
18:59 <linuxlizzard> ;P
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19:12 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: allowing upload of DTDs would be considered abuse =p
19:12 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: since it's designed specifically for XML resources
19:13 <philippeqc> yeah, we dont want people to start to develop new idea! 
19:13 <Luke-Jr> unless you want to find a clean way to add non-XML support-- which isn't very possible given it's existing requirements
19:13 <Luke-Jr> eg, automatic filepath determination and such
19:13 <philippeqc> They go around and like, start to spread and share those ideas with each others, and improve on them
19:13 <philippeqc> that's why we have to close down dtd upload
19:13  * Luke-Jr ignores philippeqc's satire
19:14 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: why, the path will be the author (the HTTP username) and the filename
19:14 <wrtlprnft> both are available
19:15 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the user's local filename should not affect the uploader
19:15 <Luke-Jr> and it doesn't account for categories at all
19:16 <wrtlprnft> who needs categories anyways?
19:16 <Luke-Jr> please just copy DTDs manually for now
19:16 <philippeqc> copy where?
19:16 <wrtlprnft> can we?
19:17 <wrtlprnft> iw permissions
19:17 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: you *should* be able to use sudo -u armagetronad
19:17 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: in the repository
19:17 <wrtlprnft> so i can go and upload ed's maps?
19:18 <wrtlprnft> and regenerate the images?
19:18 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: erm, I presume ed would if he wanted them uploaded?
19:18 <philippeqc> I might have lost my account
19:18 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: IIRC, you didn't have one
19:18 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: want one?
19:18 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: it's a pain
19:18 <philippeqc> well it seems that's the only way ;)
19:18 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: what is?
19:18 <wrtlprnft> and they all have "License: do with it what you want" in it
19:19 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: for now, anyway
19:19 <wrtlprnft> so we can put them there
19:19 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: I plan to setup a distributed mirroring system for it later
19:19 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: selecting all new maps in the browser and uploading them one by one
19:19 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: I'll post my public key
19:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: go ahead I guess
19:19 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: ok
19:19 <philippeqc> ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEAyXubir9JwHSBqtEXwYQUC8C3lYlRCM0eQ6KV0qAoXvVln9GSJEaZjOrEnzL3naDzb+IbvdudFR5fu1aLWTMfEB01WCQuU9EHrBr7cER/z6xEsMnVRpYdTQAGm6D01fHjHb0EYoB54HFZKII77aHTwq1b+YR/P5KbDBOG3EtTCn8= ph@black
19:20 <philippeqc> or
19:20 <philippeqc> ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAACBAIhYQoavTm+ILhsvHVLhEKllx30LJ7uhXIbbjKw4XH12VGSFYfPzRC1SMitDmVBP5AhQHtFeobm9RcYeKjUKrMa6lMT52yVEUV1S6lqVJL9QChBNvA+aFy6QXWxEJc0ozFvgbE+fEgLbVHSZNwZfJR7KACe/4Bfqzy0OlENx5x8pAAAAFQDzXA3XmjbG0fuekxItKBK6x0UeiQAAAIBJ3siOAm20DBSxC7dWtjE512756dWgWZlzsEyQrusDOr9ZXNJnFj/Pm+oB5PHMe5LIgtjA9h6MUG/av3XjfmlOfl1TXi/KE71+MOxa8n8j9IQ+vtN9RpBYlQBkJyMIRikjPcYEz+nmwVRv8H/Yo3WfKh8ldY0f1xzA1///zkDKqgAAAIA4JchKZluSnk5Op+
19:20 <philippeqc> xJghCmKOl7XCak8XKWhTYjPW31shAsMGFI4XNch/VqYYl8Huh/TgWgxjLmzBH48pIf64xYKuNWq1OIMajq0G5RJyPEL4RFSrd6ZHkvkgr/roOkJK4IhtkfNxgZCcJVXCXfOwYTOVe+pxjsPRHf1W2ykJSQ+A== ph@black
19:20 <Luke-Jr> ...
19:20 <wrtlprnft> i know the second one :p
19:21 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: ok, should work
19:21 <philippeqc> ip and procedure?
19:21 <Luke-Jr> ssh hachi.dashjr.org
19:22 <Luke-Jr> sudo -u armagetronad cp /tmp/somefile.dtd /var/www/armagetron/resource/resource/AATeam/somefile.dtd
19:22 <Luke-Jr> you can figure out how to get somefile.dtd there
19:22 <Luke-Jr> maybe wget or scp
19:23 <Luke-Jr> tho if wget, verify a MD5
19:23 <Luke-Jr> brb
19:24 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: is there a script for thumbnail regeneration?
19:26 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6015 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/gMenus.cpp: Don't react on fullscreen toggle in debug mode when playing back.
19:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
19:27 <wrtlprnft> but i do have write access to the thumbnails?
19:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I just did some kind of loop in bash
19:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: armagetronad does\
19:27 <wrtlprnft> yeah, sure
19:27 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: do be careful not to touch modification dates on existing resources, btw
19:27 <wrtlprnft> sudo -u armagetronad bash :P
19:27 <wrtlprnft> I won't
19:27 <Luke-Jr> sudo has a -s
19:29 <wrtlprnft> bbiab
19:32 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: thanks
19:33 <Luke-Jr> np
19:37  * spidey yawns
19:40 <philippeqc> sudo -u armagetronad mv map-0.3.1-a.dtd /var/www/armagetron/resource/resource/AATeam/
19:40 <philippeqc> mv: cannot move `map-0.3.1-a.dtd' to `/var/www/armagetron/resource/resource/AATeam/map-0.3.1-a.dtd': Permission denied
19:41 <spidey> move it as root?
19:41 <philippeqc> not my machine, and always avoid using root
19:42 <spidey> link ir?
19:42 <spidey> it
19:42 <philippeqc> I want to move it
19:43 <philippeqc> ha! probably I could copy it
19:43 <philippeqc> yep
19:43 <spidey> sudo -u armagetronad
19:43 <spidey> why that?
19:43 <philippeqc> armagetronad didnt have rights to remove the file
19:43 <philippeqc> sudo = super user does < command >
19:44 <spidey> yea i know
19:44 <spidey> but why use sudo to move a file?
19:44 <philippeqc> -u : as user
19:44 <philippeqc> cause I dont have permissions myself
19:44 <spidey> ah
19:54 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6016 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gWall.cpp): Update last turn position and wall begin distance on cycle sync.
19:54 <guru3> it apears we've been approved for hosted email
19:55 <philippeqc> sf or gmail?
19:55 <guru3> gmail
19:55 <philippeqc> hurray, my 3rd gmail address
19:55 <guru3> not @gmail tho
19:56 <guru3> @armagetronad.net
19:56 <philippeqc> nice
19:56 <philippeqc> now I'm a little elite, that makes me l3et, rather than a full l33t
19:56 <guru3> been happy
19:56 <guru3> *bee
19:57 <philippeqc> be
19:57 <guru3> that too
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6017 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gMenus.cpp gWall.cpp): (log message trimmed)
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 6012 to 6016:
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad:  r6016 | z-man | 2006-08-07 19:55:32 +0200 (Mon, 07 Aug 2006) | 2 lines
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad:  Update last turn position and wall begin distance on cycle sync.
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:03 <armabot> armagetronad:  r6015 | z-man | 2006-08-07 19:27:30 +0200 (Mon, 07 Aug 2006) | 2 lines
20:06 <wrtlprnft> yes n | sudo -u armagetronad cp -ri resource/ed/* /var/www/armagetron/resource/resource/ed <-- that 
20:06 <wrtlprnft> approved?
20:07 <philippeqc> where are they right now?
20:07 <philippeqc> I'd say yes
20:09 <wrtlprnft> i love the yes no construct :p
20:09 <philippeqc> yes
20:10 <wrtlprnft> yes yes
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: you kicking still?
20:23 <wrtlprnft> done. those are new: http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/121007
20:23 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-216-188-42.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
20:28 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: now would be a good time to make the first "release" of all the maps in an archive for convenient download
20:29 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:29 <wrtlprnft> I'd just wget -r them all :P
20:29 <Lucifer_arma> that will irritate Luke-Jr ...
20:30 <philippeqc> wget or the big zip?
20:30 <Lucifer_arma> the big zip
20:30 <wrtlprnft> zip x_x
20:30 <Lucifer_arma> hey, is'nt that a movie?  The Big Zip?
20:30 <philippeqc> he can still host it
20:30 <Lucifer_arma> you guys do what you want, I'm just heckling.  :)
20:30 <philippeqc> ;)
20:31 <Lucifer_arma> I feel so much more relaxed after I re-registered for my classes.  I got worried when I saw the big lines at admissions today that my classes might fill up before I got home to register online
20:31 <wrtlprnft> oh, i added xevi's cockpits too, he wanted me to do that and not contact Luke-Jr for some reason
20:31 <wrtlprnft> some guy he doesn't know, needing to make an account on some forums he doesn't know
20:31 <philippeqc> lol
20:31 <Lucifer_arma> xevi has a forum account....
20:32 <wrtlprnft> he does?
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> of course, my impression was always that the resource repository would be open to the community and allow anonymous uploads.
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I had a wrong impression....
20:32 -!- DrJoeTron [i=DrJoeTr0@adsl-67-37-225-31.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he's got the avatar with the bee buzzing around his head
20:32 <wrtlprnft> if he has one he didn't post with it
20:32 <Lucifer_arma> yeah he did.  :)
20:32 <wrtlprnft> a search for posts by xevi doesn't return anything
20:33 <wrtlprnft> ah, xevic
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> that's because he's registered with a dfiferent name
20:33 <wrtlprnft> that's a lightcycle x_X
20:33  * Lucifer_arma always searches *name*, but for some reason that search doesn't return any results
20:33 <Lucifer_arma> it's a light cycle?
20:33 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:33 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=6601&highlight=
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh, so it is :)
20:34 <Lucifer_arma> if he made it leave a wall behind it, he'd look like an angel
20:35 <Lucifer_arma> Analist - Programmer  <--- damn, and I thought I was anal, but he's got it in his job description!
20:36 <philippeqc> ;)
20:37 <wrtlprnft> btw, if someone wants to make better screenshots for the cockpit list on the wiki, feel free to do so
20:37 <wrtlprnft> mine suck, those cockpits deserve something better
20:40 <spidey> see
20:40 <spidey> this thing had to wait till it pissed me off >.<
20:40 <spidey> http://fallin-angels.com/forumtest.php
20:40 <spidey> tell me i can't use css to posistion a iframe :|
20:41 <philippeqc> my gf would kill you if she new you where using iframe
20:41 <spidey> well phpbb2 can't be included without a hack
20:41 <spidey> and i'm lazy
20:41 <philippeqc> if I was you, I'd be more worried for my life
20:42 <spidey> haha
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> rip out everything above and including <body> and below and including </body>, then use require_once() to include it?
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, then you have to rewrite all the links
20:42 <spidey> Lucifer_arma no
20:42 <spidey> Lucifer_arma i tried that
20:42 <spidey> phpbb2 bitches about it
20:42 <Lucifer_arma> try harder
20:42 <spidey> like i said,it can't be included without a hack
20:43 <spidey> that includes using require_once()
20:43 <Lucifer_arma> yes, but you didn't specify good hack or bad hack.  What you've said is you tried a "good hack", failed, and used a "bad hack"
20:43 <Lucifer_arma> therefore, you deserve whatever philippeqc's girlfriend does to you
20:43 <Lucifer_arma> as long as it's not nice!
20:43 <spidey> "s
20:43 <spidey> :s
20:43 <spidey> well
20:43 <philippeqc> dont worry, she's quite creative
20:44 <spidey> atleast i'm not using tables :p
20:44 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: try now
20:44 <Lucifer_arma> long as she's on this side of nice :)
20:44 <philippeqc> try now what?
20:44 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: don't you dare do that =p
20:44 <Lucifer_arma> what are you trying to do anyway?
20:45 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: what shounldnt wrt dare to do? wget or the archive?
20:45 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: the repo isn't a forum
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> you just want a larger website with forums embedded in it?
20:45 <spidey> kinda
20:45 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer_arma: anonymous uploads to Anonymous authorname maybe
20:45 <spidey> i got it though
20:45 <spidey> it's perfect now ;x
20:45 <Lucifer_arma> still got an iframe?
20:45 <spidey> now to put the css in style.css
20:45 <spidey> yes
20:46 <Luke-Jr> spidey: please tell Lucifer what I said
20:46 <spidey> he might ignore me then
20:46 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: copy resources into the repo that are already there
20:46 <spidey> :D
20:46 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: I have the archive already
20:46 <spidey> tell him what?
20:46 <Luke-Jr> spidey: Lucifer_arma: anonymous uploads to Anonymous authorname maybe
20:46 <spidey> [13:47] ( Luke-Jr ) +spidey: Lucifer_arma: anonymous uploads to Anonymous authorname maybe
20:46 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: try cping into AATeam
20:46 <wrtlprnft> get some mechanism to check for forum accounts
20:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: forum accounts aren't under names, often
20:47 <Luke-Jr> usually they have clan tags
20:47 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr:  it was the move that I couldnt do, as armagetronad needed permission to erase my copy
20:47 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: oh
20:47 <Luke-Jr> so cp it ;)
20:47 <philippeqc> it works with cp
20:47 <philippeqc> yes
20:47 <Luke-Jr> good
20:47 <Lucifer_arma> http://drupal.org/project/phpbb2drupal
20:48 <Luke-Jr> I have tbz2 of the repository already as backups-- could easily be hosted somewhere
20:48 <wrtlprnft> does that convert attachments?
20:48 <Lucifer_arma> it says it does
20:48 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, that's for spidey, I'm sure he's not shy about changing all the links
20:49 <Lucifer_arma> and since drupal will let you input raw php if you have permission, he can put anything else he wants and gets a full-featured CMS that's good enough for The Onion
20:49 <spidey> Lucifer_arma, i've tried drupal
20:49 <spidey> didn't like it
20:49 <spidey> if i wanted a cms i'd use php-nuke
20:49 <spidey> and i don't like that either
20:49 <Lucifer_arma> "I didn't like the beamer, I prefer the volkswagon"
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> I can respect that.  Fahrfergnugen's are nice cars.
20:50 <spidey> i prefer a lamberguini diablo
20:50 <spidey> ;x
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> that would be slashdot
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> *slashcode
20:50 <spidey> lol
20:50 <Lucifer_arma> just like the lambourghini, it looks really good and fast on the outside, but has nothing but turd under the hood
20:51 <Lucifer_arma> s/turd/perl
20:51 <spidey> um
20:51 <spidey> lambourghini can hit 200+
20:52 <Lucifer_arma> so can slashcode, but have you ever tried to read the code?
20:53 <spidey> what's slashcode?
20:53 <Lucifer_arma> um, the code that runs slashdot?
20:54 <Lucifer_arma> the perl program that phpNuke tries so hard to copy :)
20:54 <spidey> what's slashdot?
20:54 <wrtlprnft> that makes 6 cockpits now :)
20:55 <philippeqc> spidey: slashdot.org
20:55 <philippeqc> news for nerds, stuff that matters
20:55 <wrtlprnft> without spidey's, as he refuses to get it into the repository it seems
20:55 <Luke-Jr> spidey: ..........
20:55 <spidey> ?
20:55 <spidey> argh
20:55 <Luke-Jr> how the heck are you ignorant of slashdot?
20:55 <wrtlprnft> spidey doesn't know ./?!
20:55 <spidey> Luke-Jr gimme a account for the repository so wrtl will shut up >.<
20:55 <wrtlprnft> err, /.
20:56 <Luke-Jr> spidey: no
20:56 <Luke-Jr> j/k =p
20:56 <spidey> wrtlprnft there you go!
20:56 <wrtlprnft> ?!
20:56 <spidey> [13:57] ( Luke-Jr ) +spidey: no
20:56 <Luke-Jr> spidey: what's your author name?
20:56 <spidey> now lemme lone :p
20:57 <spidey> Luke-Jr, spidey
20:57 <Luke-Jr> ... why do I bother to ask? =p
20:57 <spidey> beats me ;x
20:57 <wrtlprnft> now i'm confused
20:57 <Luke-Jr> spidey: that's your password
20:57 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: of?
20:58 <spidey> i'll never remember that :D
20:58 <Luke-Jr> copy it to a text file
20:58 <Luke-Jr> or make me change it at gunpoint
20:58 <Luke-Jr> =p
20:59 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: why you said no :P
20:59 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: cuz it's the last thing he expected
20:59  * spidey points a sharp object at Luke-Jr and says change it
20:59 <Luke-Jr> spidey: to?
20:59 <spidey> the pass my webserver uses
20:59 <Luke-Jr> howw should I know wtf that is
21:00 <philippeqc> spidey: log once, then do the command "passwd"
21:00 <spidey> ok
21:00 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: that won't work for a htpasswd account
21:00 <wrtlprnft> change it to "fuckmicrosoft". That's the pass some idiot i know used until i found out about it
21:00 <spidey> the password that i use on lightfoot and hachi
21:00 <philippeqc> htpasswd  = ?
21:00 <Luke-Jr> spidey: ... don't know those either
21:00 <spidey> lol
21:00 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: Apache password file
21:00 <philippeqc> o
21:01 <spidey> this means i'ma have to fix all 4 of my cockpits
21:01 <spidey> >.<
21:01 <wrtlprnft> yep
21:01 <spidey> or
21:01 <spidey> well ya
21:01 <spidey> :(
21:01 <wrtlprnft> give them reasonable names and the right author
21:01 <spidey> i'll just upload the main one
21:01 <wrtlprnft> nah, upload all :P
21:01 <spidey> k
21:01 <wrtlprnft> that takes like 2 minutes
21:02 <wrtlprnft> if you're slow
21:02 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: is there a way to extract the string used for the parsing from a tValue::Expr ?
21:03 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: not yet, but it would be possible, I'd have to store it
21:03 <wrtlprnft> mathexpr drops the string
21:03 <philippeqc> o
21:03 <philippeqc> I'd need it for network creation of object
21:03 <wrtlprnft> kk
21:04 <philippeqc> well, I dont know if my idea is good, but it seems reasonable to send the parsed string to the client
21:04 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: how where you planning to send the information to the client about your parsed tvalue?
21:05 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: normal network object syncs
21:05 <philippeqc> you have pointers there! ;)
21:05 <Luke-Jr> 6so?
21:05 <philippeqc> that wont "normal network object sync" that well
21:05 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6018 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gCycleMovement.cpp gCycleMovement.h): Leakfix: better clearing of reference loop (and other evils) causing temporary smart pointers.
21:05 <spidey> gimme a name for the cockpit file,or it stays at "test4"
21:05 <spidey> :D
21:06 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: not yet
21:06 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: that part depends on DCT
21:06 <philippeqc> I'm already at that part with Expr
21:06 <Luke-Jr> that's nice
21:06 <wrtlprnft> spidey: uh, i'm not bad at finding names
21:07 <Luke-Jr> mathexpr doesn't fit our requirements, remember
21:07 <wrtlprnft> err
21:07 <wrtlprnft> i'm not good at
21:07 <wrtlprnft> it
21:07 <Lucifer_arma> call it test5
21:07 <spidey> Filepath identified as: spidey/abyss-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
21:07 <Luke-Jr> lol
21:07 <spidey> Addition confirmed... processing... ERROR: Unable to open autoupload log file! Contact luke+aaresource@dashjr.org
21:07 <spidey> ???
21:07  * Luke-Jr blames wrtlprnft 
21:07 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr broke it
21:07  * Luke-Jr blames philippeqc  instead
21:07 <spidey> lol
21:07 <wrtlprnft> i didn't do anything
21:07 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: what requirements
21:07 <Luke-Jr> spidey: it works now
21:07 <Luke-Jr> reload
21:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/spidey/abyss-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml: Resource by spidey
21:08 <wrtlprnft> !
21:08 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: the most obvious being multi-argument functions
21:08 <spidey> :D
21:08 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: it is a tValue, and I want to start working on animating zones, so I'm making a hack to be revisited at a later time.
21:08 <Luke-Jr> i see
21:08 <Luke-Jr> animating how? O.o
21:08 <philippeqc> the good way ;)
21:08 <Luke-Jr> ...
21:08 <wrtlprnft> spidey: 3 to go and i'll shut up :P
21:08 <philippeqc> x, y and similar
21:08 <Luke-Jr> z?
21:09 <philippeqc> round and round they go ;9
21:09 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: the best way would be to modify tValue for that
21:09 <wrtlprnft> to allow tValue to be synced
21:09 <philippeqc> ;)
21:09 <philippeqc> yes
21:09 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: that will all be easier with DCT tho
21:09 <philippeqc> I didnt dare
21:09 <wrtlprnft> ie it would take care of copying itself correctly
21:10 <philippeqc> I've made Expr::vars and Expr::functions as static.
21:10 <wrtlprnft> the basic types like String, Float etc you could just copy over
21:10 <spidey> ohhh
21:10 <spidey> i messed up
21:10 <spidey> Luke-Jr
21:10 <Luke-Jr> ...
21:10 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: how to differ between a string, a callback and a "parsable equation"
21:10 <spidey> i uploaded it as .aamap
21:10 <spidey> not .aacockpit
21:10 <spidey> :(
21:10 <Luke-Jr> I don't care
21:10 <Luke-Jr> nor does it
21:10 <Luke-Jr> <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/spidey/abyss-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml: Resource by spidey
21:10 <spidey> can i delete it?
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5245950.stm
21:11 <Luke-Jr> no
21:11 <wrtlprnft> http://beta.armagetronad.net/resource-browser/resource/spidey/abyss-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml
21:11 <spidey> abyss-0.0.1.aamap.xml
21:11 <spidey> that's what it is local
21:11 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't care what it is local
21:11 <spidey> O.o
21:11 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: in utah lol
21:11 <armabot> armagetronad:  * resources/spidey/pink-0.0.1.aacockpit.xml: Resource by spidey
21:11 <Lucifer_arma> heh, ironically enough :)
21:12 <Luke-Jr> PINK!
21:12 <spidey> it's cool!
21:12 <spidey> it's one i made for lizz
21:12 <wrtlprnft> spidey: if you wanna make me totally happy give me nice screenshots of them :P
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i'll make boring ones if you don't :P
21:12 <spidey> >.<
21:12 <spidey> hold on
21:12 <Luke-Jr> lol
21:13  * Luke-Jr watches wrtlprnft pile on tasks
21:13 <wrtlprnft> after that, learn chinese
21:13 <philippeqc> neat!
21:13 <wrtlprnft> then write an automated preview script.
21:14 <wrtlprnft> then... I'll wait till you finish those tasks until i assign new ones
21:17 <spidey> lol
21:17 <spidey> wrtlprnft, this is the abyss one
21:17 <spidey> http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9314/abyssyj2.png
21:18 <spidey> this is the pink one
21:18 <spidey> http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3196/pinkonevm1.png
21:19 <wrtlprnft> ok :)
21:20 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=423 <-- boring screenshots I would have used
21:20 <spidey> lol
21:21 <GodTodd> Lucifer_arma: i'm here now
21:21 <spidey> now i go back to that server for a hour
21:21 <philippeqc> Luke-Jr: could you correct something in svn?
21:22 <spidey> then do 32 pages of science
21:22 <philippeqc> in my private space, I lack a project for the junk currently there
21:23 <philippeqc> could it be moved into a directory "zone-v2-01-start"
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I was away a sec
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> um, actually GodTodd, ironically I was thinking about novels
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> I figure there are 3 options:
21:24 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: do you have capacity to fix svn ?
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> 1) you self-publish with cafepress anything you haven't got a buyer for otherwise (doing so will mean you won't get a buyer until you get your own)
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: arma svn?
21:24 <philippeqc> yes, my private space
21:24 <Lucifer_arma> 2) you self-publish on the website and make it free for all and hope to make it back with advertising and merchandise and stuff
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> 3) I install this nice paypal module and people have to become site members.  In this scenario, we'd show excerpts and members get the full text
21:25 <GodTodd> i was kinda thinking the third scenario
21:25 <Lucifer_arma> 4) you put whatever you want and do whatever you want.  :) 
21:25 <GodTodd> lowest cost with at least some (hopefully) retur
21:25 <GodTodd> return*
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: what's wrong with it?
21:26 <philippeqc> can I move the content of private/philippeqc to private/philippeqc/someDir/
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, GodTodd, I figure we can cross 1) off the list as being fairly worthless.  You might keep it as an option anyway for folks that want the paper option, but I'd expect folks to go with something web-based
21:26 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: yes, use svn mv
21:27 <philippeqc> ok, then I can fix it myself
21:27 <philippeqc> ty
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> np :)
21:27 <Lucifer_arma> also, GodTodd, you might consider eBook formats.  There is a paid download module kicking around too, and I already set the site up to use private download space, i.e. you can't download a file just by guessing it's url
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I like 3) because it gives folks a reason to join the site.  What I don't like about it is that there will be site content locked up behind a cash register
21:28 <wrtlprnft> ok, spidey's cockpits are on the wiki
21:28 <wrtlprnft> which brings the count to 8
21:28 <Lucifer_arma> however, if we did 2), we couldn't later switch to 3).  But if we did 3), we could later switch to 2) reasonably if 3) didn't work out :)
21:29 <GodTodd> that's what i was figuring
21:29 <GodTodd> and eBook formats....like pdf or what?
21:29 <Lucifer_arma> well, I read palm DOC files on my clie.  :)
21:30 <GodTodd> is there a program that will convert to different cross-platform files?
21:30 <Lucifer_arma> there are a few open source tools for making various conversions.  If we work it right, we might be able to offer downloadable files in the user's preferred format, and there's probably real value for that
21:31 <GodTodd> that's what i was hoping for :)
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r6019 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/ (gCycle.cpp gCycleMovement.cpp gCycleMovement.h):
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 6016 to 6018:
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad:  r6018 | z-man | 2006-08-07 21:06:53 +0200 (Mon, 07 Aug 2006) | 1 line
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad:  Leakfix: better clearing of reference loop (and other evils) causing temporary smart pointers.
21:31 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
21:31 <Lucifer_arma> so a site member could be able to make free downloads of this stuff (wel,l free after they paid for their membership) or read it directly on the site
21:31 <GodTodd> exactly
21:31 <GodTodd> choice is the key
21:31 <GodTodd> the more choice a user has the more value they see
21:33 <GodTodd> (Hence the major success of SprawlMart beyond lower prices)
21:33 <GodTodd> ;)
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to suggest a couple more things :)
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> you write a few short stories, longer stories (i.e. multipart short stories), and maybe even a novella, and post those for all to read
21:33 <GodTodd> yeah i was considering that too
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> when you have 3 completed novels, post one of them for free, then try to maintain a 3:2 ratio
21:33 <GodTodd> got a couple kicking around
21:33 <Lucifer_arma> er, 3:1 ratio of paid:free
21:34 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: svn mv
21:34 <philippeqc> grrr
21:34 <Luke-Jr> GRRR
21:34 <Luke-Jr> =p
21:34 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc:  ?
21:35 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: ?
21:35 <philippeqc> I'm trying to move with svn mv https://sv.../private/philippeqc https://sv.../private/philippeqc/someDir
21:35 <wrtlprnft> haha
21:35 <philippeqc> svn: Cannot move URL 'https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private/philippeqc' into itself
21:35 <wrtlprnft> need to move it somewhere else
21:35 <wrtlprnft> first
21:35 <philippeqc> yeah, I was coming there 
21:35 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r6020 /private/philippeqc/zone-v2-01-start/: ph dir
21:35 <philippeqc> didnt want to add useless version around
21:36 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6021 /private/ (philippeqc/ tmp/): Moved to its own directory
21:36 <wrtlprnft> errm
21:36 <wrtlprnft> are we conflicting now?!
21:37 <Luke-Jr> maybe
21:37 <wrtlprnft> i though Luke-Jr fixed it in one revision
21:37 <Luke-Jr> two ways to do it I guess
21:37 <Luke-Jr> I did half a fix =p
21:38 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r6022 /private/tmp/zone-v2-01-start/: undo that
21:38 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: if you want me to do it, let me know =p
21:38 <wrtlprnft> NOW we're adding useless revisions :P
21:38 <philippeqc> how to make a directory now
21:38 <philippeqc> grr, I should really go to bed
21:39 <wrtlprnft> mkdir name
21:39 <philippeqc> :(
21:39 <wrtlprnft> svn add name
21:39 <philippeqc> ok
21:39 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r6023 /private/philippeqc/: like this
21:39 <wrtlprnft> errm
21:39 <wrtlprnft> i love these commits that only make sense if you read them in this channel...
21:39 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r6024 /private/ (philippeqc/zone-v2-01-start/ tmp/): and this
21:39 <Luke-Jr> lol
21:39 <Luke-Jr> all done
21:40 <philippeqc> o ty luke, now you conflicted with my operation
21:40 <Luke-Jr> yw
21:40 <Luke-Jr> svn ls https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private/philippeqc
21:40 <philippeqc> yeah, saw its corrected
21:40 <philippeqc> ty
21:41 <Luke-Jr> np
21:41 <philippeqc> ok, now how to I make a new branch from trunk without grabbing all but armagetronad?
21:41 <philippeqc> svn copy trunk/armagetronad private/philippeqc/zone-v2-02-shapes
21:41 <GodTodd> w00t....conor gots him some teeth :D
21:41 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: wtf?
21:42 <Luke-Jr> please, always copy all
21:42 <Luke-Jr> don't just copy armagetronad
21:42 <Luke-Jr> it is better that way
21:42 <wrtlprnft> who needs all that winlibs stuff anyways
21:42 <wrtlprnft> joda is away, z-man doesn't care to fix it...
21:42 <Luke-Jr> it is cheaper to copy all
21:42 <wrtlprnft> so noone's gonna change anything anyways
21:43 <Luke-Jr> that to copy selectively
21:43 <Luke-Jr> than*
21:43 <Luke-Jr> and makes merging simpler
21:43 <philippeqc> does it really?
21:43 <wrtlprnft> svn copy https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/ https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/private/wrtlprnft/all
21:44 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: lol
21:44 <philippeqc> ok, I'll do that
21:44 <wrtlprnft> if i'm merging it's easier to just merge the armagetronad module
21:44 <Luke-Jr> philippeqc: a copy is represented in svn as a copy
21:44 <Luke-Jr> a single copy
21:44 <wrtlprnft> since i usually don't have checkouts of anything but armagetronad/
21:44 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't need to recurse and count files or anything
21:45 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: branching shouldn't be done w/ WC anyway
21:45 <wrtlprnft> ?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> you need a checkout of your target, right?
21:47 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6025 / (armagetronad/trunk/ private/philippeqc/zone-v2-02-shape/): Zone have a new mecanism for their shapes
21:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: no
21:48 <Luke-Jr> svn cp https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/{trunk,branches/foo}
21:48 <Luke-Jr> tada
21:48 <philippeqc> darn should have done it locally to commit my changes
21:50 <philippeqc> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/armagetronad/private/philippeqc/zone-v2-02-shape'
21:50 <philippeqc> svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/armagetronad/private/philippeqc/zone-v2-02-shape': could not connect to server (https://svn.sourceforget.net)
21:51 <philippeqc> darn sf!
21:52 <Luke-Jr> O.o
21:52 <Luke-Jr> svn switch?
21:53 <philippeqc> lol
21:53 <philippeqc> I killed trunk
21:53 <philippeqc> I moved it to my own private space!!!!
21:54 <philippeqc> LOL
21:54  * Luke-Jr kills philippeqc 
21:55 <philippeqc> All your trunk are belong to me!
21:55 <Luke-Jr> oh god you did
21:55 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6026 / (armagetronad/trunk/ private/philippeqc/zone-v2-02-shape/): Zone have a new mecanism for their shapes
21:55 <philippeqc> sorry forgot to change the message
21:55 <Luke-Jr> you just broke everyone's trunk checkout
21:56 <Luke-Jr> maybe
21:56 <philippeqc> nope
21:56 <Luke-Jr> bbiab
21:56 <philippeqc> mine is fine here
21:56 <[dlh]> you deleted your private workspace, though.
21:56 <philippeqc> it was not created
21:56 <philippeqc> I didnt want to branch trunk from my private space
21:56 <philippeqc> ;)
21:57 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: z-man said what i did was right and i'm gonna trust him
21:58 <philippeqc> what if I branched in /aa/aa/branches ?
21:59 <philippeqc> what I'm doing isnt really "private", it just off trunk
21:59 <philippeqc> as long as it breaks more than it fix
22:00 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: what do you think about that?
22:01 <philippeqc> to avoid new mistake:
22:02 <philippeqc> -- from my local copy of trunk with my local change :
22:02 <philippeqc> a)svn copy trunk branches/zone-v2-02-shape
22:02 <philippeqc> b)svn commit -m "Now creating a branche to experiment with shapes"
22:02 <philippeqc> would that create the new branche with my local changes in it?
22:03 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft Luke-Jr Lucifer_arma ? ^^^
22:06 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6027 /armagetronad/branches/zone-v2-02-shape/ (14 files in 7 dirs): Now creating a branche to experiment with shapes
22:06 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: try it :P
22:07 <wrtlprnft> if it's the trunk without your changes merge them
22:07 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6028 /armagetronad/branches/zone-v2-02-shape/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/ (zShape.cpp zShape.hpp): forgot the escential files
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: yes
22:09 <Lucifer_arma> er, maybe
22:09 <philippeqc> well it seems everything went fine
22:09 <philippeqc> I'll make a "maps" section in my private space
22:09 <philippeqc> and put a map that makes the zones move in circle
22:09 <philippeqc> and let you try it up
22:10 <philippeqc> oups, no, you wont be able to, it wont compile
22:10 <philippeqc> disable all the network code if you want to (in zShape.cpp)
22:10 <philippeqc> its not used
22:10 <philippeqc> for local play
22:14 <wrtlprnft> I'll go to bed soon
22:14 <wrtlprnft> and I won't be there tomorrow :(
22:14 <wrtlprnft> *here
22:15 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r6029 /private/philippeqc/maps/ (. map-0.3.1-a.dtd quadFortress.aamap.xml): simple map to see the zone move
22:15 <philippeqc> back to work 2morrow
22:15 <philippeqc> cya
22:15 <philippeqc> #night
22:15 <wrtlprnft> cya
22:15 <armabot> Good night philippeqc!
22:16 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:18 <wrtlprnft>   113      <Point x="100+50*cos(time()*3.14*2/15)"
22:18 <wrtlprnft>   114             y="100+50*sin(time()*3.14*2/15)"/>
22:18 <wrtlprnft> that works, passing no arg to time()?
22:24 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: wtf did z-man say was right?
22:26 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: why would time() need an arg?
22:26 <wrtlprnft> it surprises me that it works without an arg
22:26 <wrtlprnft> as mathexpr by itself only handles functions with one arg
22:27 <Luke-Jr> maybe ph hacked it
22:27 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
22:28 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=80411#80411
22:28 <wrtlprnft> and I used svn merge for that
22:31 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577B88D1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:33 -!- wejp [n=j0hannes@i577BACB2.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
22:35 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: there are plenty of ways to merge that will result in the correct output
22:35 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: however, branching and merging the full trunk-level data is most generic and works for all branching
22:40 -!- linuxlizzard [n=linuxl@ip68-0-231-217.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:46 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:46 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:56 -!- [dlh]_ [n=[dlh]@70.88.244.226] has joined #armagetron
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23:25 <Lucifer_arma> why is it so hard to apply a stupid patch?
23:33 <GodTodd> what kind of patch?
23:34 <Lucifer_arma> it's the patch that updates the paypal_subscription module to drupal 4.7
23:35 <GodTodd> ah

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