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Log from 2006-07-29:
--- Day changed Sat Jul 29 2006
00:01 <wrtlprnft> oh, another example of you slowing down development: Resource selection UI. You want some craty SOAP or whatever thing that noone but you would understand and you don't like my solution because it doesn't scale to thousands of resources
00:01 <wrtlprnft> *crazy
00:02 <luke-jr_> STL is allowed in the project, right?
00:03 <luke-jr_> it seems pretty standard...
00:03 <wrtlprnft> sure it is
00:04 <wrtlprnft> we're at least using std::string, std::deque, std::map, std::set, std::auto_ptr and some generic algorythms
00:05 <wrtlprnft> at least that's what i have come across until now
00:05 <wrtlprnft> *algorithms
00:05 <wrtlprnft> a sign i should go to bed
00:06 <wrtlprnft> #night
00:06 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
00:07 <luke-jr_> eh, STL is std::?
00:08 <Lucifer_arma> am I the only one not getting email notifications from the forums?
00:08 <nemostultae> yes
00:08 <nemostultae> Lucifer_arma: no idea about that
00:09 <nemostultae> hey, wrtlprnft didn't commit his makefile fix. :(
00:09 <Lucifer_arma> well, are you getting email notifications?
00:10 <nemostultae> only over private messages. I'm not watching any threads.
00:12 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5858 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/thirdparty/mathexpr/ (Makefile.am example.cpp):
00:12 <armabot> armagetronad: - Fixed include path for mathexpr
00:12 <armabot> armagetronad: - Converted the mathexpr example file to float as well and added it to the distfiles
00:12 <wrtlprnft> you're lucky i still read that ;)
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> figured it out, I'm getting them, haha
00:12 <Lucifer_arma> I just had my filter set to mark them as read
00:13 -!- free-zombie [n=tgwj@p549959DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
00:18 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p508745DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
00:21 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: so did you test w/ software emu?
00:21 <luke-jr_> s/emu/GL
00:22 <Lucifer_arma> alright, yay, I'm downloading the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!!!!!
00:25 <luke-jr_> ...
00:26 <Lucifer_arma> PH34R ME, for your home will soon be on my hard drive!   hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhah!!!!!!!!!!!
00:51  * spidey notes Lucifer_arma is crazy and should be commited to the nearest mental home
00:51 <Lucifer_arma> nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!  That's a state hospital!!!!!!!!!!
00:52 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
00:56  * Lucifer_arma needs to plugin another monitor so he can run the Atlas program while he's flying the plane
00:58 <spidey> haha
01:00 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is a laptop, after all
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> and it supports two heads....
01:01 <Lucifer_arma> if not, well, maybe my car doesn't need a computer after all
01:07 <spidey> why does your car need a computer?
01:09 <madmax|pt> car+computer > car ?
01:26 <spidey> car+maadmax > omfg run for your lives!
01:29 <madmax|pt> lol
01:32 -!- SuPeRTaRD [i=blah@adsl-71-145-128-242.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #armagetron
01:40 <spidey> me = bitchy in about 3-4 hours :-s
01:49 <Lucifer_arma> why?  you quit smoking?
01:50 <spidey> no,i ran outta cigarettes, and can't get anymore till the morning >.<
01:50 <spidey> which means i'm going to bed in about 30 minutes
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> my cd player quit working, so I want to put a computer in there to do the stuff my cd player would normally do
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> aw man
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> last night, my namepicker picked BlAzE
01:50 <Lucifer_arma> so wrtlprnft went in as LuciEatsPeople
01:50 <spidey> lololol
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> and we agreed that you needed to come in as wrtlprnft
01:51 <spidey>  i was asleep :/
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> then I was sucking so bad, I wanted a new name, and the damn script picked spidey
01:51 <spidey> hahaha
01:51 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, if you update namepicker from svn, I added some instant chats
01:52  * spidey is on windows
01:52 <spidey> i still haven't gotten unlazy enough to make a 30gig partition
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02:11 <spidey> #night
02:11 <armabot> Good night spidey!
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03:01 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-207-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
03:05 <Lucifer_arma> wow, x-plane looks very nice, but is not open source :(
03:06 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: do that test yet?
03:10 -!- Lizz [i=Lizz@wxpp-p-144-138-186-192.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #armagetron
03:10 <nemostultae> x-plane is nice.
03:11 <Lizz> hiya guys :)
03:12 <Lizz> i got a puter question
03:12 <Lizz> can one of u guys help?
03:15 <Lizz> im trying to run an iso thrur daemon tools.. and i get an error message saying C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\AUTOEXEC.NT. the system file is not suitable for running MS-DOS and microsoft windows applications.
03:15 <Lizz> choose "close" to terminate the application
03:16 <Lizz> as im trying to install the iso it just closes itself out and gives me that message
03:17 <Lucifer_arma> sorry, I don't know anything about it :(
03:21 <Lizz> ok.. do u kno who mite loocee?
03:21 <Lizz> the error message name is 16bit subsystem :/
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> You might have to take lessons
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> But you don't have to learn to fight
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> You've gotta learn the Fortress Walk
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> And you've gotta do it right
03:25 <Lucifer_arma> Lizz: I don't know who would know, sorry
03:25 <Lizz> ok.. thx anyway.. guess i cant run it :(
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> hey, what's the name of that dance that came out around '96/'97
03:28 <Lizz> what type of dance?
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> the one with the silly song, Magdalena or something
03:28 <Lizz> macharina?
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> pop dance
03:28 <Lucifer_arma> ah, that's it, thanks :)
03:28 <Lizz> yvw :)
03:28 <Lizz> dunno how ya spell it tho
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> now what rhymes with that?
03:29 <Lizz> umm
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> arena....
03:30 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm
03:30 <Lizz> mmm
03:30 <Lizz> submarina?
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> hahahaha
03:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's the most important line of the stanza :(
03:31 <Lucifer_arma>   We're not doing the tango
03:31 <Lucifer_arma>   We're not doing macharina
03:31 <Lucifer_arma>   It's not a ballroom, or a tap dance
03:32 <Lizz> hmmm
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> my family just took off to see a play, and I don't know how long it is, so I'd like to start recording the lyrics pretty soon
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, I have to finish writing them first
03:32 <Lizz> well. any word ending in "er" works
03:33  * Lucifer_arma notes that he has an American accent
03:33  * Lizz notes she dosent
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> I can break the rhyming pattern if I need to for a really good line here
03:34  * Lucifer_arma checks to see if it's the last line he needs
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, I can cop out and play leads for the end of the song, but it looks like I'd planned 3 verses
03:35 <Lizz> o.O
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> It's the dance of <something that rhymes with macharina>
03:35 <Lizz> aah ok
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> a good spanish word....
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> any spaniards here?
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> WHERE'S XEVI WHEN YOU NEED HIM?
03:36 <Lizz> no ones here :/
03:36 <Lizz> wheres luke when ya need him
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> constantina heh
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> you never need luke, trust me on this one
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> victoria
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'd have to accent the i at the end, though
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> that works, I'll go with it
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> ok, that's enough rehearsing :)
03:55 <Lizz> yay fixed file problem.. the autoexec.nt wasnt located in the right place :/
03:55 <Lizz> bbl looceee.. have fun with ya song ;-)
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04:24 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/mix.ogg
04:59 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: ...
05:00 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: let me know when you've done that test, I've paused tCode until then to determine whether to implement the interpretor or turn ASTs into tValues
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> it sounds like shit
05:10  * Lucifer_arma wants to erase it--and the memory
05:17 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-248-216-169.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
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06:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, I think I've got all of Europe, so now all you europeans are on my hard drive!  hahahahahahahaha
06:10  * Lucifer_arma gets a magnet
06:38 -!- groundpig [i=groundpi@rrcs-67-53-6-47.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
06:38 <groundpig> Hi all
06:46 <luke-jr_> hi
06:47 <Lucifer_arma> hi
06:49 <groundpig> hi
06:57 <groundpig> anybody know off hand how to #ifdef in the respawn?
07:01 -!- Vanhayes_ [n=Vanhayes@stjhnbsu84w-156034177111.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:04 <groundpig> ok found it - anyone know if it causes any stability issues?
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=6651&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc
07:16 <Lucifer_arma> groundpig: I don't know
07:17 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar_ [n=pso@84-74-41-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
07:17 <groundpig> Lucifer_arma: I guess we'll see soon
07:18 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar [n=pso@84-74-41-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
07:18 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar_ is now known as [Xpert]DarkStar
07:18 <Lucifer_arma> Am I weird or does anybody else read DarkStar as DorkStar ?
07:21 <GodTodd> both?
07:21 <GodTodd> ;)
07:21 <Lucifer_arma> heh
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> you ready for school yet?
07:22 <GodTodd> just have to get my books...but have til the 28th of aug for that
07:22  * Lucifer_arma is procrastinating studying by getting caught up with email
07:22 <Lucifer_arma> so what classes did you wind up registering for?
07:23 <GodTodd> History of the Republic of Texas, C++, and Trig
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> ooo, that sounds fun
07:23 <Lucifer_arma> 1/3 fun, anyway
07:23  * Lucifer_arma loved his Trig class
07:23 <GodTodd> yeah....buttloads
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> well, I've got nothing for you for the history class, I took US HIstories.
07:24 <GodTodd> they didn't require TX history?
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> This channel is usually pretty well packed with C++ programmers, and most of us are math geeks too, so there's plenty of help here
07:24 <GodTodd> from what i read it's state law
07:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, the legislative requirement is 6 hours of US history, and it's permissible that 3 of them can be texas history
07:25 <GodTodd> that's what i'm hoping for...other than the fact that i'm married to a programmer/math geek too ;)
07:25 <GodTodd> hmmm
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, heh
07:25 <GodTodd> the degree plan that they gave me said 3 MUST be TX hist
07:25  * Lucifer_arma had no such luck and is mostly on his own when he needs help
07:25 <Lucifer_arma> maybe they're jerks?
07:25 <GodTodd> could be
07:25 <GodTodd> they have been so far
07:26 <GodTodd> heh
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> I read the actual text of the law somewhere on UT's site :)
07:26 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters much, you're either bored with texas history or bored with us history
07:26 <GodTodd> i'll have to look it up sometime and raise a stink...just cuz
07:26 <GodTodd> yep
07:26  * Lucifer_arma has found this channel to be invaluable for help
07:27 <GodTodd> yeah...i've seen that in my lurking :)
07:27  * Lucifer_arma thinks he got his A in calculus because of help available here
07:27 -!- deja_vu_ [n=deja_vu@p57A1C47E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
07:27 <Lucifer_arma> oh shit, they just changed something.  It's a deja vu
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> you know, the us history requirement wouldn't be so damned annoying if it weren't for the 12 years of US history you get in public schools
07:28 <Lucifer_arma> let me study someone else's history instead!  goddammit
07:29 <GodTodd> lol...i know
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> oh, hey, check this out
07:29 <Lucifer_arma> better get a puke bag
07:29 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p57A18FC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
07:30 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/mix.ogg
07:31 <GodTodd> yeah...i dl'd it....haven't listened to it yet
07:47 <GodTodd> hmmm
07:48 <GodTodd> that's not the final product, is it? :)
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> no, not even close, haha
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> it's not even at rough draft stage
07:49 <Lucifer_arma> some of the lyrics are fucked up and can't be sung in sync, and the only instrument I'm certain is good is the bass
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> even then, the recording of the bass isn't terribly good.  It's livable if the other instruments were to start gelling, but that's it.
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> and the other instruments aren't gelling
07:50 <GodTodd> yeah...i like the bass line
07:50 <Lucifer_arma> I jammed with a guitar line that followed the bass much more closely and that didn't sound terribly good either
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm new to writing songs from the bass.  :(  I've always written songs from the guitar, where I'd do guitar riffs, then lyrics, then layout
07:51 <Lucifer_arma> this is....different
07:52 <Lucifer_arma> and working with a computer forces some process on me that doesn't quite work.  I have to lay out the song when I haven't actually worked out a layout in order to get a drum line I can jam with
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should step back with the lyrics and a guitar and ignore all the rest for a bit
07:53 <Lucifer_arma> alternately, I could remove the lyrics and work on it as an instrumental.  I have a recorded track that sounds pretty good where it's an instrumental
07:53 <GodTodd> that'd probably make it easier
07:54 <Lucifer_arma> the title track I'm going to take what little bass I've got and write lyrics to go on it, then sit back with guitar and write the rest of the song
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> and come back with bass after I've laid out the whole song and recorded the rhythm guitars
07:55 <Lucifer_arma> then I need an instrumental rendition to include for ingame music :)
07:56 <GodTodd> cool :)
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> or I may forego the instrumental rendition and just include all of a 5-6 minute song
07:56 <Lucifer_arma> problem is, the instrumentals can loop more without getting boring
07:57 <GodTodd> definitely
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> see, if the songs have singing, then you can play it once and move on.  For that I'd need somewheres around 80 minutes of music to avoid the repetition
07:57 <GodTodd> right
07:57 <Lucifer_arma> with 80 minutes of singing music, repetition would get annoying after about 2-2.5 hours of play
07:58 <Lucifer_arma> that's not acceptable, actually, silly as it sounds, because that's when the repetition gets annoying
07:58 <Lucifer_arma> but I've worked out that for just 30 minutes of instrumental music, I should be able to get 4-5 hours of play before repetition gets annoying
07:58 <GodTodd> does the ingame music really need lyrics, though?
07:58 <Lucifer_arma> and if I write the sound engine the way I really want it, I can turn that 30 minutes into megabytes instead and aim for 10 hours of play
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't.  Occasional lyrics are good, but lyrical songs like what you get on an album are bad.
07:59 <GodTodd> right
07:59 <Lucifer_arma> the sound engine has some basic support for chaining smaller tracks together into a larger song, and I'll be expanding that support
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> and making it actually work for everyone, which it doesn't now :)
08:00 <GodTodd> that song i just listened to...is that going ingame or just like an opening track sort of thing?
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> ingame
08:00 <GodTodd> k
08:00 <Lucifer_arma> it's the Fortress Walk :)
08:00 <GodTodd> that i knew...honest :)
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> the title track is a bass line I played on my streaming server a little while ago, I think you heard it but I don't remember
08:01 <GodTodd> heh...i can't even get arma to load a custom playlist for me
08:01 <GodTodd> could be
08:01 <GodTodd> yeah...i remember now
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, some windows users had problems with that
08:01 <GodTodd> i even converted the mp3s to ogg and made a new playlist
08:01 <GodTodd> heh
08:01 <Lucifer_arma> m3u format?
08:01 <GodTodd> yep
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> absolute paths to the files?
08:02 <GodTodd> m3u playlist of ogg files
08:02 <GodTodd> yep
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> then you went into sound settings and put in the absolute path to your custom playlist and said "custom" instead of "internal"?
08:02 <GodTodd> it would load the name of the song correctly but no sound
08:02 <GodTodd> sure did
08:02 <Lucifer_arma> ah, no sound but the name appeared
08:03 <GodTodd> yep
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> it's possible that the underlying smpeg library failed on it, that happens on some of my mp3s
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> also
08:03 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871E91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> you have to bind the media player controls, and when you enter the game, hit "next" to start it playing
08:03 <GodTodd> hmmm...and how would that be fixed?
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> therwise no music
08:03 <GodTodd> i did that
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> it'll be fixed by using libmad instead, because libmad is an excellent library
08:03 <Lucifer_arma> smpeg is also the reason sdl_mixer is broke on Mac OS X
08:04 <GodTodd> it would skip ahead just fine and change the name of the song but no sound at all
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> no sound at all?  not even the announcer?
08:04 <GodTodd> right
08:04 <groundpig> can a couple of you come in to StyBall to check respawn on goalie?
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> you did check your mixer application to make sure you didn't have something muted?
08:04 <Lucifer_arma> groundpig: I can't right now, I've got a huge emerge running
08:05 <GodTodd> yeah...nothing is/was muted
08:05 <groundpig> Lucifer_arma: np
08:05 <GodTodd> i'm a hardware tech...i follow the 'check the plug' philosophy so that's what i did first ;)
08:05 <Lucifer_arma> and you made sure you didn't have anything else locking the sound card?  and other applications can play sound?
08:05 <GodTodd> yep
08:06 <GodTodd> even made sure the oggs were good...winamp played them fine
08:06 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, don't know what to tell you, other than wait for 0.3.1 :)
08:06 <GodTodd> heh
08:06 <groundpig> z-man: what would be the best place for you to have a talk about zone wall detection/interactions, forum or IRC?
08:06 <GodTodd> 'tis ok...gives me something to fuck with ;)
08:06 <Lucifer_arma> um, oh yeah.  You might need it for your C++ class.  YOu might look at setting up a windows development environment (instructions on the wiki) so you can run the trunk
08:07 <Lucifer_arma> I could really use a windows user testing this stuff when I get back on it, so that 0.3.1 doesn't disappoint for sound the way 0.3.0 did
08:07 <z-man> groundpig: forum. I probably need time to think before I answer :)
08:07 <Lucifer_arma> the development environment we use uses free software, so it not only doesn't cost anything to set up, it's all open source too :)
08:07 <GodTodd> z-man: why not pull answers outta your ass....works for luke-jr_
08:07 <GodTodd> ;)
08:07  * Lucifer_arma chuckles audibly
08:08 <GodTodd> cool i'll have to do that :)
08:08 <groundpig> z-man: sounds good, i'll post how i'm doing it now and how I don't like it.  hoping you'll have a better suggestion for me
08:08 <Lucifer_arma> I have a suggestion for you, baconboy
08:08 <groundpig> shoot, beelzebub
08:09 <Lucifer_arma> do it all from the trunk and get with philippe, he's having to solve the same problems, and it breaks my heart to see you guys working separately on essentially the same stuff.
08:09 <groundpig> i see what philippe is working on solving a different problem
08:10 <Lucifer_arma> zone wall detection/interactions  <--- this is a subset of what philippe's working on
08:10 <Lucifer_arma> he's trying to build low-level primitive structures for us to use to construct really cool maps
08:10 <groundpig> exactly - whereas i've mostly been concerned with dynamically generated zones
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> well, he's working specifically on that right now
08:11 <GodTodd> wouldn't help anything for the playlist to put it in with my arma install files, would it?
08:11 <groundpig> ah, did not know that
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> now, he is in a lower level than you're at, that is true
08:11 <groundpig> i'll try and post a braindump soon
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> but there's so much overlap between you guys, I wish you guys would get together on it
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: shouldn't make a difference
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> if you're not getting the announcer, you've got a problem that's bigger than the playlist
08:12 <GodTodd> testing arma again to get specifics...i've been lax on my playing ;)
08:12 <wrtlprnft> can't luke-jr_ read my /away message? I was sleeping
08:12 <wrtlprnft> #last --with night --from wrtlprnft 
08:12 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [17:06:57] <wrtlprnft> #night
08:12 <wrtlprnft> #morning
08:12 <armabot> Good Morning wrtlprnft Random Fortune: "Our reruns are better than theirs." || -- Nick at Nite
08:14 <GodTodd> ok...was wrong...it changes to the playlist song on the display but i still get the default music....no announcer tho
08:16 <GodTodd> all i get is the same music that comes on with the splash
08:20 <Lucifer_arma> that's weird
08:20 <GodTodd> yeah
08:20 <GodTodd> any chance it's a borked dl?
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> it's either that or I'm a have to chalk it up to user error until proven otherwise :)
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> and I admit it's not well documented
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, I don't think it's documented at all how to use it
08:22 <GodTodd> it's not
08:22 <GodTodd> i looked
08:22 <GodTodd> heh
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> the music that comes on with the splash shouldn't ever play again
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> same with the music that plays after that, but before you join a game
08:23 <GodTodd> kinda figured that
08:23 <GodTodd> hell i haven't even heard anything else
08:23 <GodTodd> heh
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> after you join a game, if you use the internal playlist, you should hear the fortress walk play
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> but you have to start the song by hitting next
08:23 <GodTodd> i'ma try a new dl first and foremost
08:24 <GodTodd> and that's just the any key right?
08:24 <GodTodd> 'n'?
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> ok.  also you should dig up your settings.cfg and delete that
08:24 <GodTodd> k
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> er, settings_03.cfg or something liek that
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, wait, it's user_030.cfg
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> in Documents and Settings/someplace/I/Don't/Know
08:25 <GodTodd> hmmm
08:26 <GodTodd> searching now
08:27 <GodTodd> what would deleting the 'settings.cfg' do?
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> not that one
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> it has to be user_030.cfg
08:27 <GodTodd> nothing since i'ma reinstall?
08:27 <GodTodd> yeah i know...still searching for that one
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> well, yeah, if it's settings.cfg.
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> user_030.cfg (or user_03.cfg) stores your own settings, and deleting that will reset you to a brand new installation
08:28 <wrtlprnft> uh, the user file is called user_3_0.cfg
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> that is, after you reinstall, if the old one was borked
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, where is it?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> var dir
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> besides ~/.armagetronad/var
08:28 <wrtlprnft> nowhere
08:28 <wrtlprnft> it is in there :S
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> windows?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> just use the search?
08:29 <wrtlprnft> search for a file named user_3_0.cfg
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> c:\Documents and Settings\user\armagetronad\var ?
08:29  * wrtlprnft thinks we should make an "about this installation" menu
08:29 <wrtlprnft> it would display all the paths
08:29 <wrtlprnft> similar to opera:about
08:29 <GodTodd> what about the plain 'user.cfg'?
08:29  * Lucifer_arma thinks we should use plib
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> that's for an older version
08:29 <wrtlprnft> plib fonts suck
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> they don't suck that badly
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> can we keep the ftgl stuff?
08:30 <wrtlprnft> GodTodd: development snapshots make their own file so they don't bork up your install
08:30 <wrtlprnft> the stable one
08:31 <GodTodd> and it's C:\DocsandSettings\<username>\AppData\Arma\var :)
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, some people like to keep the stable one around in case the development version doesn't work
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> some of us just play off the trunk
08:31 <wrtlprnft> :)
08:31 <Lucifer_arma> and whenever I see a server (only happened once) that says "no modified clients allowed", I ask if that includes me :)
08:32 <GodTodd> hell...i don't care if it's stable...i wanna complain about bugs heh
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you're going to complain about bugs anyway, I'd rather you ran off the trunk :)
08:32 <wrtlprnft> grr, there's a new wave of very annoying spam mails right now
08:32 <GodTodd> sorry...i'll stop that wrtl ;)
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=6651&highlight=  :)
08:32 <wrtlprnft> someone should make nightly builds for windows
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> hmm, were you around when /dev/null got jailed for sleeping with his 14-year old cousin?
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> or however old she was?
08:33 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i don't mean that
08:33 <wrtlprnft> VALIjlUM from 1 , 25
08:33 <wrtlprnft> VljlAGRA from 3 , 35
08:33 <wrtlprnft> AMBljIEN
08:33 <wrtlprnft> CIALIjlS from 3 , 75
08:33 <wrtlprnft> my filter won't get those
08:34  * Lucifer_arma wonders why spam filters don't just use a spell checker
08:34 <groundpig> wrtlprnft: can you get me some CIALIjlS?
08:34 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well
08:34 <wrtlprnft> if spidey sends me a mail it wouldn't get a better rating
08:34 <wrtlprnft> groundpig: shall I PM you the link? ;)
08:34 <Lucifer_arma> not only would it get most spam, but it would also prevent me from having to read spidey's email :)
08:34 <GodTodd> heh
08:35 <wrtlprnft> what if someone sends me a big chunck of code?
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> just think, those 12-year old AOLers would be locked out of email!  THe internet will be free at last!!!
08:35 <wrtlprnft> that wouldn't rate well in a spell checker
08:35 <GodTodd> running off the trunk...is that a stupid question that would be answered in the wiki?
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> they can't send it as an attachment?
08:35 <wrtlprnft> kinda
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: it's not actually a stupid question, haha
08:35 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Windows_Development_System
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Windows_Development_System
08:36 <Lucifer_arma> ah, you beat me
08:36 <wrtlprnft> with pleasure i beat Lucifer_arma 
08:37  * Lucifer_arma beats wrtlprnft 
08:37  * Lucifer_arma beats wrtlprnft 
08:37  * Lucifer_arma beats wrtlprnft 
08:37 <GodTodd> well...yeah...i'm there already (beat both y'all)...just haven't read it yet....so running off the trunk is natural after setting up the WDS?
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> that's why you'd set up a WDS
08:37 <wrtlprnft> GodTodd: that's for compiling, for getting the latest trunk code: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Working_with_SVN
08:37 <GodTodd> ok
08:37 <GodTodd> cool :)
08:40  * Lucifer_arma thinks we are amazingly well-documented for an open source game
08:40 <GodTodd> except for sound ;)
08:40 <GodTodd> heh
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> true, we don't quite match up to FlightGear's manual
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> not true
08:40 <Lucifer_arma> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/New_Sound_Engine
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> it's just not end-user documentation yet
08:42 <GodTodd> blah...semantics heh
08:42 <GodTodd> so...do i still want to go with the 0.3 branch for the src.zip?
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> if you want to build from the trunk, you want to check it out with TortoiseSVN
08:45 <Lucifer_arma> if you don't want to build from the trunk, what are you doing exactly anyway?  ;)
08:46 <GodTodd> following these directions ---> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Windows_Development_System
08:46 <GodTodd> You need a copy of armagetronad-<VERSION>.src.zip and armagetronad-winlibs-<VERSION>.zip.
08:46 <GodTodd> first line of it
08:46 <Lucifer_arma> aha
08:47 <wrtlprnft> that you get from svn
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> ok, first, do you want to build from svn or not?
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> i.e. do you want to build from the trunk?
08:47 <GodTodd> yeah
08:47 <Lucifer_arma> because if you do, ignore that line and get TortoiseSVN and check it out from the trunk
08:47  * Lucifer_arma goes to modify the wiki page
08:47 <GodTodd> ahhh okie
08:48 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5859 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (NEWS src/ui/uMenu.cpp src/ui/uMenu.h):
08:48 <armabot> armagetronad: Added an incremental reverse search for the console and chat history: In chat or
08:48 <armabot> armagetronad: console mode press CTRL-R and start entering your search term. It will show you
08:48 <armabot> armagetronad: the last found match in a new line, press right or left to jump to it in the
08:48 <armabot> armagetronad: history.
08:49 <Lucifer_arma> then there's probably a readme with more information after you do the checkout
08:49 <z-man> anyone noticed the Ladle-ITW time collision?
08:49 <GodTodd> k...dl'ing tortoise now
08:50 <wrtlprnft> someone try out that history reverse search feature and see if it works for them :)
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> I didn't, that's interesting
08:51 <wrtlprnft> wow, Lucifer_arma actually put a useful log message for a wiki edit? hurray!
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> er, z-man: I didn't, that's interesting
08:51 <wrtlprnft> > The Sources - Added blurb about getting sources when building thet runk
08:51 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I made sure to put a typo in it
08:51 <wrtlprnft> i know
08:51 <wrtlprnft> not that bad
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> nxet tmei I'll mkae seur to wescr ti pu coetelpy
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> *m
08:52 <wrtlprnft> you spelled "I'll" correctly?!
08:52 <z-man> what part does the *m correct?
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, I've got a huge emerge going, so can't test anything
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> the last part
08:53  * guru3 is manually trying to add more spam protection
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> awww, that last one was fun :)
08:53 <wrtlprnft> guru3: just change the name of some parameters for the forum?
08:53  * guru3 is going to screw with the fields
08:53 <wrtlprnft> guru3: you sure you have a backup?
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> invert the names of the password and username fields in the login form
08:53 <guru3> yes
08:54 <wrtlprnft> or do will we reach 1000 users for the 3rd time?
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> that way they're diametrically opposed to what's in the registration form
08:54 <wrtlprnft> -do
08:55 <wrtlprnft> doesn't work for scripts that choose their username as password
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> of course, that still won't work if the spambots check the types of the fields
08:55 <Lucifer_arma> just add something to the registration that disallows username==password
08:56 <guru3> i'm changing the link to registration some
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> GodTodd: after you get a checkout of the trunk, in armagetronad/win32 there's a README.txt that has some information for building
08:59 <GodTodd> k
09:00 <wrtlprnft> from the mathexp page: "As a counterpart, the code is not very clean..." <-- that's an understatement
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> heh, no shit
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> I've seen worse, though
09:00 <guru3> i hope no one wants to edit their profile for a wee bit
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> you should go through shttpd sometime.  It's not terrible, but, hmmmmmmmmmmm
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> so, I don't see how a byte-compiled tCode is going to do us any good, after looking through mathexpr
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> looks to me like mathexpr builds a little object tree for the expression
09:02 <wrtlprnft> aww, i wanted to edit my profile :(
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> which means the code that executes the expression has been compiled to native machine code and optimized
09:02 <Lucifer_arma> so as long as mathexpr is well-optimized and/or we make it so, it should outperform any byte-compiled interpreter
09:02 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but it's still slower than hardcoding the expression
09:03 <GodTodd> do i need the asp.net hack?
09:03 <wrtlprnft> and luke-jr_ wants to magically change that
09:03 <wrtlprnft> nonono, no asp.net! go away!
09:03 <GodTodd> ok
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> what's the asp.net hack?
09:03 <GodTodd> :)
09:03 <GodTodd> it's an option on install of tortoise
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  no, probably not.  :)
09:03 <z-man> ah, forget it. Ladle starts at 9, ITW at 8.
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> isn't it fundamentally impossible to have a dynamically defined expression perform like a hardcoded expression?
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> wouldn't that violate some law of thermodynamics or other?
09:04 <Lucifer_arma> we can get pretty damn close with function pointers and stuff....
09:05 <wrtlprnft> if the ITW match ends up being 1v9 or so which isn't too improbable it won't end up overlapping the ladle ;)
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> heh, 1 v 15
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> *14 (they have to have someone there to make sure the match is fair, after all)
09:06 <wrtlprnft> yeah
09:06 <GodTodd> bah...fucking windows
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> give me a nickel
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> I want a nickel everytime someone curses windows
09:06 <Lucifer_arma> I'll be rich sometime next week :)
09:06 <GodTodd> why not...bill gates gets one
09:06 <GodTodd> :)
09:07 <wrtlprnft> #google fight "fucking windows" "fucking linux"
09:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: fucking windows: 10600000, fucking linux: 5350000
09:07 <wrtlprnft> almost twice :)
09:07 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: you can always compile the dynamically defined expression to machine code.
09:07 <wrtlprnft> as much funcking windows
09:07 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "Windows sucks" "linux sucks"
09:07 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Windows sucks: 18400000, linux sucks: 13000000
09:07 <wrtlprnft> z-man: so we're gonna depend on gcc for executing arma?
09:08 <z-man> #google fight "Windows rules" "Linux rules"
09:08 <GodTodd> guess i'll brb...blah
09:08 <armabot> z-man: Windows rules: 169000000, Linux rules: 92200000
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: that's a straw man, it's still won't be as tight as a hardcoded expression
09:08 <z-man> wrtlprnft: sure :)
09:08 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: how so?
09:08 <Lucifer_arma> #google fight "windows sucks" "linux rules"
09:08 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: linux rules: 92200000, windows sucks: 18400000
09:09 <Your_mom_arma> im not sure who the winner is there
09:09 <wrtlprnft> well, you can always take your expression, generate some c function, compile it into a library and dynamically link to it
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: because you're assembling a general case
09:09 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> If you're going to compile to native machine code, then I'll concede the possibility of somewhere out there there being a compiler that can match the hardcoded expression
09:09 <wrtlprnft> nemo and joda will have their fun making that work on their platforms
09:09 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, not to mention the bsd junkies around here
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> we might have to listen for ticking packages in the mail if we do that
09:10 <wrtlprnft> n54 isn't around
09:10 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: of course, it is fundamentally impossible to make a dynamic expression *faster* than a static one.
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> well, we want to hit the top of the 85% curve and blow off the other 15%.  Is that so bad?
09:10  * z-man actually doesn't feel all that much like arguing over that :)
09:11 <wrtlprnft> hmm
09:11 <Lucifer_arma> you know, where the other 15% of performance takes something like 10 times the effort needed to reach the first 85%
09:11 <wrtlprnft> can't we just send the expression to google's API every time it's evaluated?
09:11 <wrtlprnft> and then get the result of #google calc
09:11  * Lucifer_arma laughs out loud
09:11 <wrtlprnft> that would make for great expressions
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> hell, just email it to someone in Beirut and ask them to compute it with an abacus
09:12 <guru3> someone want to try editing their profile?
09:12 <wrtlprnft> <Zone radius="USD 100 in CAD" />
09:12 <Lucifer_arma> that would be a shrinking zone
09:12 <wrtlprnft> because cad are getting more valuable?
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> yes :)
09:13 <guru3> hahaha
09:13 <guru3> don't try editing your profile
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> cad have almost caught up with usd, last time I checked
09:13 <guru3> it's broken
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> #g USD 1 in CAD
09:13  * wrtlprnft tries
09:13 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 USD in CAD
09:13 <armabot> 1 U.S. dollar = 1.1343 Canadian dollars
09:13 <Your_mom_arma> a user agreement?
09:13 <wrtlprnft> i don't wanna register, stupid
09:13 <guru3> yeah um
09:13 <guru3> i'll fix that later
09:13 <guru3> g2g eat now
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> haha
09:13 <Lucifer_arma> "I broke it, now I gotta go eat, cya!"
09:13 <Your_mom_arma> what happens if i dont agree?
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 USD in EU
09:15 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> #g 1 USD in euros
09:15 <armabot> 1 U.S. dollar = 0.785792865 Euros
09:15  * Lucifer_arma sighs
09:15  * Lucifer_arma kicks himself again
09:15 <Lucifer_arma> in 2000, I told my wife we should take every spare penny we had and buy euros, the exchange rate was more like 1:3 or something
09:16 <Lucifer_arma> #g 50*3/0.785792865
09:16 <armabot> (50 * 3) / 0.785792865 = 190.89
09:22 <guru3> i fixed what i broke
09:31 -!- GodTodd [n=GodTodd@c-71-199-204-144.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #armagetron
09:32 <GodTodd> and once again i say....fucking windows
09:32 <GodTodd> :)
09:44 <Lucifer_arma> cool, now you need to give me a dime since you didn't give me the first nickel
09:47 <GodTodd> k...think i just did the checkout
09:47 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #armagetron
09:47 <Your_mom_arma> hey philippeqc
09:47 <philippeqc> hi
09:48 <philippeqc> everything's good
09:49 <philippeqc> z-man: I want the effects to be able to send a console message. I've copied the way ePlayer.AddScore does it, but a) it seems to send it twice, b) it sends it with the chars "\n"
09:50 <wrtlprnft> !!!
09:50 <philippeqc> hi wrtlprnft 
09:50 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: the trunk client won't parse old maps
09:50 <wrtlprnft> you can't play on BF fortress with it
09:50 <wrtlprnft> or sumo
09:50 <wrtlprnft> or my race server
09:50 <wrtlprnft> or CTWF
09:50 <philippeqc> yes
09:50 <philippeqc> that is what we said yesterday
09:50 <wrtlprnft> that needs to be fixed
09:50 <wrtlprnft> no
09:50 <philippeqc> that I'll need to add support for old zones
09:51 <wrtlprnft> we talked about the server not being able to handle old maps
09:51 <wrtlprnft> the client should ignore zones on the map
09:51 <philippeqc> old maps with old zones?
09:51 <philippeqc> yes, I need to add that to the new server
09:52 <wrtlprnft> nonono
09:52 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5860 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/ (zZone.cpp zZone.h): Refixed what was lost during the merge of philippeqc's zone model: Zones that are removed from the game don't appear on the HUD minimap anymore.
09:52 <wrtlprnft> or yes
09:52 <philippeqc> ?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> but first you should be able to connect to servers using old maps
09:52 <wrtlprnft> the client exits when trying to parse a new map
09:52 <wrtlprnft> *an old map
09:52 <philippeqc> old servers?
09:52 <wrtlprnft> yes
09:52 <wrtlprnft> new client, old server
09:53 <wrtlprnft> new client exits, probably an unhandled expeption, no segfault
09:53 <philippeqc> oooo
09:53 <philippeqc> let me check on that
09:54 <wrtlprnft> i need to talk more if i wanna keep twice as many lines as spidey 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> i need to talk more if i wanna keep twice as many lines as spidey 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> i need to talk more if i wanna keep twice as many lines as spidey 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> i need to talk more if i wanna keep twice as many lines as spidey 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> i need to talk more if i wanna keep twice as many lines as spidey 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> Poor Lucifer_arma, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 30 times.
09:54 <wrtlprnft> For example, like this: * Luke-Jr smacks Lucifer_arma 
09:54 <wrtlprnft> spidey seems to be unliked too. He/She got beaten 30 times.
09:54 <philippeqc> ok, got the bug
09:54 <wrtlprnft> ya, we got it!!!!!
09:55  * wrtlprnft slaps spidey 
09:55 <wrtlprnft> one last time, now he is on top of the stat
09:56 <philippeqc> I guess I found it
09:56 <philippeqc> ;)
09:59 <wrtlprnft> uh, fix it? ;)
09:59 <philippeqc> patience grasshoper
10:01 <z-man> philippeqc: dunno, the AddScore() call looks right. Perhaps the function is called twice, or Joda or me broke AddScore.
10:02 <philippeqc> ok, I'll investigate the double calling scenario.
10:02  * wrtlprnft is notoriously impatient
10:03 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: just joined on ct's wild fortress ;)
10:03 <wrtlprnft> with or without fix?
10:03 <philippeqc> with fix
10:04 <wrtlprnft> i didn't actually try ctwf, just the bf servers
10:04 <philippeqc> I'm trying to commit it
10:04 <wrtlprnft> :)
10:05 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5861 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Fix: Can now connect to servers with old maps. Added basic support for message on effect
10:05 <wrtlprnft> :)
10:05 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: you have the strangest habit of pointing to urgent bugs just as I'm in the middle of some other changes ;)
10:06 <wrtlprnft> :P
10:06 <wrtlprnft> well, it was urgent, i couldn't play
10:06 <philippeqc> o, and only at a point where the other changes prevent any compilation ;)
10:06  * philippeqc activate spidey mode
10:06 <philippeqc> spidey mode activated
10:06  * philippeqc slaps wrtlprnft into low orbit
10:06 <wrtlprnft> i always have a working copy for small changes and one for every big change
10:06  * philippeqc deactivate spidey mode
10:07 <philippeqc> t'was small changes ;)
10:08 <philippeqc> I saw a problem that will affect the server in trunk. Unnamed zones will cause great problems and become all merged in one
10:08 <wrtlprnft> ok, can play on sumo now
10:09 <philippeqc> yep
10:09 <wrtlprnft> just don't allow unnamed zones or give them ongoing names?
10:09 <wrtlprnft> like __unnamedZone<ongoingnumber>
10:09 <philippeqc> naaa, I think that case (unnamed zones) is already taken care of.
10:10 <philippeqc> string a = ""; a.size() gives me what? 0 I hope
10:10 <wrtlprnft> should
10:10 <Your_mom_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=78721#78721
10:10 <philippeqc> ok, then its taken care of
10:11 <wrtlprnft> or use a.empty()
10:11 <wrtlprnft> clearer to read
10:11 <philippeqc> hummm yes
10:11 <wrtlprnft> better to say if(a.empty()) than if(!a.size())
10:12 <philippeqc> if(a.size()!=0)
10:12 <philippeqc> ;)
10:12 <armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r5862 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/gParser.cpp: Slightly improved readability of the parser
10:15 <wrtlprnft> more commits! more commits! let's beat gentoo!
10:15 <wrtlprnft> z-man: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Working_with_SVN#Merging <-- that correct procedure?
10:17 <wrtlprnft> ack, warning in mathexpr
10:17 <wrtlprnft> mathexpr.cpp:517: warning: 'i2' might be used uninitialized in this function
10:18 -!- darkhunter^ [n=chaos@unaffiliated/darkhunter/x-93853] has joined #armagetron
10:18 -!- darkhunter^ [n=chaos@unaffiliated/darkhunter/x-93853] has left #armagetron []
10:19 <wrtlprnft> but the warning is right
10:20 <wrtlprnft> and i have no idea what that function even does or what i2 might be initialized to
10:22 <wrtlprnft> no, infact the warning is true
10:23 <wrtlprnft> what do i do now? "Fix" it and initialize i2 to some nonsense value knowing that it will make the code a bit slower or ignore the warning? Lucifer_arma? z-man? philippeqc?
10:24 <wrtlprnft> is there any way to force the compiler so it doesn't output a certain warning for a certain file?
10:26 <philippeqc> init it to 0, it is often a sensible choice
10:26 <wrtlprnft> that'll make it a bit slower
10:27 <wrtlprnft> after all, the compiler is wrong about it and it's perfectly safe to keep it uninitialized.
10:27 <philippeqc> bit slower? 1 operation!
10:27 <wrtlprnft> o well
10:27 <wrtlprnft> i guess I'll do it
10:28 <wrtlprnft> stupid gcc
10:28 <wrtlprnft> BUG!
10:30 <Lucifer_arma> ask luke
10:30 <wrtlprnft> he'll tell me that gcc sucks anyways and that we should write our own compiler
10:31 <philippeqc> chances are that it start uninitialised, and in some branch gets initialised. but the compiler say that maybe there is a path where no branch that initialise it are traversed
10:31 <Lucifer_arma> it's not truly Free, somehow, because gcc doesn't ship openwrt with it
10:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's a warning, and it means "if you're sure it's ok, you don't have to do anything about it, but if you get weird bugs, consider this"
10:32 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5863 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/thirdparty/mathexpr/mathexpr.cpp: Fixed wrong compiler warning, sacrificing performance a bit.
10:32 <Lucifer_arma> hey, say that every change you make somehow sacrifices mathexpr performance
10:32 <philippeqc> init it, its 1 cpu cycle. 
10:32 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: it can't possibly be uninitialized
10:32 <Lucifer_arma> that'll guarantee luke will only ever work on tCode, so he wont' bother us with anything important
10:32 <Lucifer_arma> it's not even 1 cpu cycle if you init it near the top
10:33 <wrtlprnft> there's two vars that are important here
10:33 <wrtlprnft> there's i2, uninitialized
10:33 <wrtlprnft> then there's ind=0
10:33 <Lucifer_arma> when you do something like:
10:33 <Lucifer_arma> int something=0;
10:33 <wrtlprnft> one branch checks if(ind&&!IsNumeric(s[i]))
10:33 <Lucifer_arma> the compiler throws on some extra optimization so that the assignment operation doesn't take any extra time
10:34 <wrtlprnft> then it uses i2 and sets ind to 0
10:34 <Lucifer_arma> or at least, that's what all the old teach yourself c books used to say
10:34 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it isn't an assignment operation technically
10:34 <Lucifer_arma> well, it is if you do:
10:34 <Lucifer_arma> int something;
10:34 <Lucifer_arma> ...
10:34 <Lucifer_arma> something = 0;
10:34 <wrtlprnft> and there's another branch that checks if(!ind&&IsNumeric(s[i]))
10:34 <wrtlprnft> that one INITIALIZES i2 and sets ind to 1
10:35 <wrtlprnft> so the first one can only run after the second one executed
10:35 <wrtlprnft> (nothing else changes ind)
10:35 <philippeqc> weird, I dont have mathexpr in my trunk?
10:35 <wrtlprnft> and both branches are in the same for loop
10:35 <Lucifer_arma> svn update ?
10:36 <Lucifer_arma> are you still using your branch or working in the trunk?
10:36 <philippeqc> hehe
10:36 <philippeqc> why the idea that wrtlprnft  mighthave added it AFTER yesterday never crossed my mind
10:36 <philippeqc> ;)
10:36 <philippeqc> trunk
10:36  * Lucifer_arma activates spidey mode
10:37  * spidey stabs Lucifer_arma 
10:37 -!- philippeqc is now known as lucifer
10:37  * Lucifer_arma borks philippeqc into some weird place
10:37  * Lucifer_arma deactivates spidey mode
10:37 -!- lucifer is now known as philippeqc
10:37 <philippeqc> hehe dodged it
10:37  * Lucifer_arma activates spidey mode
10:37  * Lucifer_arma borks philippeqc into some weird place
10:37  * Lucifer_arma activates spidey mode
10:37 -!- You're now known as McSpiddles
10:37 <Lucifer_arma> er
10:37 <philippeqc> duh
10:37  * McSpiddles slaps spidey 
10:37  * McSpiddles slaps spidey 
10:37  * McSpiddles slaps spidey 
10:37  * McSpiddles slaps spidey 
10:37  * Lucifer_arma deactivates spidey mode
10:37  * Lucifer_arma deactivates spidey mode
10:37 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
10:37  * Lucifer_arma is the ULTIMATE SPAMMER!
10:37 <wrtlprnft> phew, just in time before he could ghostkick me
10:37 <wrtlprnft> spidey: pwnt
10:38 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: what method?
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38  * spidey slaps wrtlprnft
10:38 <spidey> bitch ;x
10:39 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/104852
10:39 <philippeqc> lol, another coder that thinks removing spaces actually optimize the code
10:39 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as BlAzE
10:39 -!- BlAzE is now known as Lucifer_arma
10:39 <spidey> >.<
10:39 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsPeople
10:40 -!- LuciEatsPeople is now known as Lucifer_arma
10:40 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: why actually use a value that has chance of causing prob! set it to 0, that has WAY more chance of never causing probs
10:40 <Lucifer_arma> is that in mathexpr?
10:40 <philippeqc> yes
10:41 <philippeqc>     for(i=0;s[i];i++){
10:41 <philippeqc>         if(ind&&!IsNumeric(s[i])){ind=0;InsStr(s,i2,'(');i++;InsStr(s,i,')');continue;};
10:41 <philippeqc>         t1=IsVar(s,i,nvar,ppvar);t2=IsFunction(s,i,nfunc,ppfunc);
10:41 <philippeqc>         if(t1||t2){i+=max(t1,t2)-1;continue;};
10:41 <philippeqc>         if(s[i]=='('){i=SearchCorOpenbracket(s,i);if(i==-1)return;continue;};
10:41 <philippeqc>         if(!ind&&IsNumeric(s[i])){i2=i;ind=1;};
10:41 <philippeqc>     };
10:41 <philippeqc>     if(ind)InsStr(s,i2,'(');i++;InsStr(s,i,')');
10:41 <wrtlprnft> that
10:41 <wrtlprnft> 's what i pasted
10:41 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/104852
10:41 <philippeqc> yes
10:41 <Lucifer_arma> he must have wrote it perfectly the first time so he never had to read it again after that
10:41 <Lucifer_arma> amazing
10:41 <Lucifer_arma> what talent!
10:41 <philippeqc> or lack of
10:42 <wrtlprnft> so, how can i2 be used uninitialized?
10:42 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I have to do things like:
10:42 <Lucifer_arma> sin( cos(something) )
10:42 <Lucifer_arma> so my syntax highlighter will match the ) properly
10:42 <philippeqc> maybe InsStr use it to return junk only
10:42 <Lucifer_arma> if I don't do that, I can't read the line for shit
10:42 <wrtlprnft> lack of spaces saves space and makes it compile fater
10:42 <wrtlprnft> *faster
10:42 <Lucifer_arma> fatter, heh
10:42 <philippeqc> naaa
10:43 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: InsStr will NEVER be called with an uninitialized i2
10:43 <Lucifer_arma> most of the work compiling is done after the parsing, that's why distcc works so well
10:43 <philippeqc> it must depend on the 5'th line setting i2 first, before InsStr is called
10:43 <philippeqc> <    int i,i2,ind=0,t1,t2;
10:43 <wrtlprnft> it's line 9 in my pastebin post
10:43 <philippeqc> >    int i,i2=0,ind=0,t1,t2;
10:43 <wrtlprnft> line 5 sets it
10:43 <wrtlprnft> err
10:43 <wrtlprnft> line 9 sets it
10:43 <philippeqc> thank you, come again
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> leave it unitialized, and the guy who compiles with -Werror will bitch
10:44 <philippeqc> 5'th of the for
10:44 <Lucifer_arma> and that guy's complaints I take seriously :)
10:44 <wrtlprnft> and only after line 9 is executed line 5 has any chance of being used
10:45 <wrtlprnft> because only line 9 sets ind to 1
10:45 <wrtlprnft> and initializes i2
10:45 <wrtlprnft> and only if ind is 1 line 5 will be executed
10:45 <wrtlprnft> so the compiler is wrong.
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> no, the compiler has no way to know
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> what does it hurt to set it to 0?  It's just a place where certain values of i get stored temporarily, and i gets initialized to 0 when it's first used
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> so initialize to -1 and move on
10:46 <Lucifer_arma> or 0, but then you might be storing a not real value for i
10:47 <wrtlprnft> initializing will cost an extra cycle, no matter what
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> who gives a shit?
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> what's 1 cycle when my cpu executes millions of them every second?
10:47 <wrtlprnft> uninitialized ints are just a matter of setting EFP to a lower value
10:47 <Lucifer_arma> it's more important that the thing build with -Werror
10:47 <wrtlprnft> initialized ints need to set EFP to a lower value and call mov
10:48  * wrtlprnft notes he already fixed it...
10:48 <Lucifer_arma> then why are you still bitching about it?  heh
10:48 <wrtlprnft> because the fix sucks
10:48  * Lucifer_arma goes to put all of the lug nuts on his tires
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> waaaa, but the extra mass will weigh down my car and slow it down!
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> that's more work for the engine!
10:49 <Lucifer_arma> I might lose an entire mile per gallon over the course of 6 years of driving!
10:49  * Lucifer_arma is done
10:50 -!- Your_mom_arma [n=Jacob@pool-71-248-216-169.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has left #armagetron []
10:50 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_ won't like the lower performance
10:50 <wrtlprnft> he'll like mathexpr even less than he did until now
10:50 <Lucifer_arma> fine, that just means he'll keep working on tCode and leaving us alone
10:51 <Lucifer_arma> his whole deal about it is the clearest case of NotInventedByLuke that has ever happened around here
10:51 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: i suggest you check out your signature :)
10:51 <wrtlprnft> right
10:51 <wrtlprnft> ir actually got him to do something
10:51 <wrtlprnft> "Meow."
10:52 <wrtlprnft> *it
10:52  * Lucifer_arma eats cats, too
10:52 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciEatsCats
10:52 <guru3> ><
10:52 -!- You're now known as SpideySlapper
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey 
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey again
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey another time
10:52 <LuciEatsCats> I YELL TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey all the time
10:52 -!- LuciEatsCats is now known as Lucifer_arma
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey because it's so much fun
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey because he should be top on that stat
10:52  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey for fun
10:53  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey with a passion
10:53  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey hard
10:53  * SpideySlapper slaps spidey until he runs to his mom, whining
10:53 <Lucifer_arma> that won't take long
10:53 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
10:54 -!- MaZuffeR [n=MaZuffeR@dsl-hkigw6-fe52de00-104.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #armagetron
10:54 <Lucifer_arma> hiya MaZuffeR 
10:54 <MaZuffeR> hi
10:55 <Lucifer_arma> did the heat wave hit you?
10:56 <MaZuffeR> well, it's been quite warm for the last four weeks...
10:56 <MaZuffeR> don't know if that's the heat wave you're refering to though
10:57 <Lucifer_arma> the one that's killing people all over the place
10:57 <Lucifer_arma> France, Germany, Canada, California, etc.
10:57 <MaZuffeR> it's not that hot in Finland, it never gets that hot here
10:57 <Lucifer_arma> places that aren't normally hot enough for the heat to be a threat
11:26 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: don't you know ASP?
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> active server pages?
11:26 <guru3> 1
11:26 <guru3> i mean yeah
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> it's been a long time....
11:26 <Lucifer_arma> why do you ask?
11:26 <guru3> just curious
11:27 <guru3> am writing up a report on an app that uses asp is all
11:27 <guru3> (the report i had two weeks to write ><)
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  Yeah, it's been quite a long time, heh
11:27 <guru3> got to the bit on writing plugins
11:27 <Lucifer_arma> not since before asp.NET got released, in fact
11:27 <guru3> and i'm just mentioning the language
11:28 <guru3> and i'm thinking "well, if they need someone to write a plugin..."
11:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh, not me, sorry :)
11:28 <guru3> so it seems ><
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's not the fact that it's been so long that stops me from being interested, though
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> I'll work with any language for money, even if I don't know it, generally
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> it's the fact that my client would be married to a microsoft server platform, and I don't think I can give the best service I can give under those conditions
11:29 <Lucifer_arma> so I'd prefer not to do it
11:29 <guru3> that's ok
11:29 <guru3> if i know my mom
11:30 <guru3> nothing will happen for the next 2 years
11:35 <guru3> and that's that finished
11:35 <guru3> i hope
11:35 <guru3> probably short changed it a bit
11:35 <guru3> "oh well"
11:38 <z-man> Lucifer_arma: shall we change the "god kills a kitten" instantchat to "Luci eats a kitten"?
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> heh
11:47 <Lucifer_arma> you do whatever you want :)
11:53 <Lucifer_arma> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/5224386.stm   <--- does it run under Linux?
11:54 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, it's a flash game, but it's all in french
11:58 <guru3> lol
12:01 <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, my french isn't quite up to the task
12:02 <Lucifer_arma> I got to a part where I ws supposed to match up falling bricks with places they were supposed to land, but I didn't understand the captions on the places they were supposed to land
12:02 <Lucifer_arma> but I understood what was on the bricks!
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> ooo, I only got two wrong
12:04 <Lucifer_arma> I guess depenses means costs and recettes means revenue
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> hahahaha
12:08 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know jack about what France's national government has to spend money on
12:15 <Lucifer_arma> well, that was certainly educational
12:15 <philippeqc> suggest lucifer use a french-english dictionary
12:29 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: bug on fortress :S
12:29 <wrtlprnft> lemme upload a few screenshots
12:29 <wrtlprnft> and i still need a more efficient screenshot script :S
12:31 <wrtlprnft> or no, my fault, sorry
12:33 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5864 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/zZone.cpp: Fixed my fix: Zones are now really removed from the game again, and not just from the HUD map
12:39 <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: actually, I managed to make it without a dictionary, but I did have some trouble in the math quiz
12:39 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> and I stopped after that
12:40  * Lucifer_arma is going to bed now, g'night!
12:40 <joda_bot> hi all
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> hi joda_bot 
12:40 <joda_bot> gn8
12:40 <joda_bot> ;)
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> er, bye joda_bot 
12:40 <Lucifer_arma> :)
12:40  * joda_bot is still working on thesis
12:40 <joda_bot> :|
12:40 <joda_bot> got two extra weeks, but not finished ... :-(
12:40 <joda_bot> is 2020 around ?
12:41 <wrtlprnft> night Lucifer_arma 
12:41 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: he was for a short while
12:42 <wrtlprnft> then was disappointed because i didn't reply within 5 minutes and left again
12:42 <wrtlprnft> read it in my chatlog, i was outside at the time
12:42 <wrtlprnft> #seen e2020
12:42 <armabot> wrtlprnft: e2020 was last seen in #armagetron 3 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <e2020> thanks again and see you on the grid...
12:42 <wrtlprnft> good luck with your thesis
12:42 <joda_bot> thx
12:43 <joda_bot> Psyko is away and made me team captain for ladle ... have to get someone else to take over
12:43 <wrtlprnft> haha
12:44 <joda_bot> take the time of work... might be good after writing all day
12:44 <joda_bot> *or* take ...
12:44 <wrtlprnft> poor joda
12:44 <joda_bot> #notes
12:44 <armabot> joda_bot: I currently have notes waiting for $randomnick, *josh*, ar*, Luke-Jr, Nickserv, operserv, phil, someone, and unknown.
12:44 <joda_bot> #notes phil
12:44 <armabot> joda_bot: Sent 8 weeks, 5 days, 10 hours, and 12 minutes ago: <wrtlprnft> uh, the fact that you can't put std::auto_ptrs into containers is exactly why i made tAutoDeque ;)
12:44 <wrtlprnft> we can't get rid of that
12:45 <joda_bot> phil doesn't check those often does he ?
12:45 <wrtlprnft> i wanted to send it to phil* because i didn't know how to spel philippeqc 
12:45 -!- You're now known as phil
12:45 <phil> ah
12:45 <phil> finally
12:45 -!- You're now known as wrtlprnft
12:45 <joda_bot> :-)
12:45 <wrtlprnft> phil was taken when i last tried
12:46 <joda_bot> #msg phil* sorry, still busy with my thesis / got two weeks more... hope to finsih early
12:46 <joda_bot> #ping
12:46 <armabot> pong
12:46 <wrtlprnft> it's #message
12:46 <joda_bot> m?
12:46 <joda_bot> ah thx
12:46 <wrtlprnft> and he's there, you can just wake jim :P
12:46 <wrtlprnft> *him
12:46 <wrtlprnft> assuming he reads his wakes
12:47 <joda_bot> philippeqc: sorry, still busy with my thesis / got two weeks more... hope to finsih early
12:47 <joda_bot> lol... did only check for 2020 :|
12:47 <joda_bot> #m phil* sorry, still busy with my thesis / got two weeks more... hope to finsih early
12:47 <armabot> joda_bot: The operation succeeded.
12:47 <joda_bot> he ;)
12:47 <joda_bot> safe
12:47 <wrtlprnft> :)
12:47 <joda_bot> bbl
12:47 <wrtlprnft> cya
12:48 <joda_bot> Teamcaptains will meet here , right ?
12:48 <wrtlprnft> guess so
12:48 <joda_bot> ah, and why isn't CT listed on ladle's Teamlist ?
12:48 <joda_bot> will there be two CT teams ?
12:48 <wrtlprnft> dunno
12:48 <joda_bot> heard something strange about CTT CT ?
12:48 <joda_bot> whatever
12:48 <joda_bot> have fun
12:48 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #armagetron []
12:57 -!- eyolf [n=eyolf@x1-6-00-0f-b5-6a-73-d7.k453.webspeed.dk] has joined #armagetron
13:43 <philippeqc>  wrtlprnft what bug on fortress?
13:43 <philippeqc> Lucifer_arma: sorry to hear about your math test
13:45 <philippeqc> lol, I always miss joda
13:45 <wrtlprnft> #last --from Lucifer_arma --with math
13:45 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [05:40:57] <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc: actually, I managed to make it without a dictionary, but I did have some trouble in the math quiz
13:45 <wrtlprnft> ah
13:45 <philippeqc> #message joda_bot Itsw ok, concentrate on your thesis. The game can wait
13:45 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: solved, it was my fault
13:45 <armabot> philippeqc: The operation succeeded.
13:46 <wrtlprnft> #last --in #commits --with wrtlprnft 
13:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: Error: You must be in #commits.
13:46 <philippeqc> ok
13:46 <wrtlprnft> grr
13:46 <wrtlprnft> #last --in #commits --with wrtlprnft 
13:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [05:34:38] <CIA-6> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5864 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/zZone.cpp: Fixed my fix: Zones are now really removed from the game again, and not just from the HUD map
13:46 <philippeqc> #last --in #commits --with wrtlprnft 
13:46 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: You must be in #commits.
13:47 <wrtlprnft> you need to join that channel first
13:48 <philippeqc> #last --in #commits --with wrtlprnft 
13:48 <armabot> philippeqc: [05:34:38] <CIA-6> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5864 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/zone/zZone.cpp: Fixed my fix: Zones are now really removed from the game again, and not just from the HUD map
13:48 <philippeqc> so we have the commits channel just for aa?
13:48 <wrtlprnft> no
13:48 <wrtlprnft> that's all messages cia receives
13:48 <philippeqc> ha, Just saw one for another project
13:48 <philippeqc> ok
13:48 <philippeqc> #last --with philippeqc
13:48 <armabot> philippeqc: [06:46:58] <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: solved, it was my fault
13:49 <philippeqc> neat
13:51 <wrtlprnft> that's where armabot gets her commit messages from too
13:51 <philippeqc> her?
13:51 <philippeqc> ;)
13:52 <wrtlprnft> yes, her
13:52 <philippeqc> I guess robots are feminin in german
13:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma insists it's a she
13:52 <wrtlprnft> no, they aren't
13:52 <wrtlprnft> "der Roboter"
13:52 <philippeqc> o if lucifer said it then
13:52 <philippeqc> and plural would be?
13:52 <wrtlprnft> "die Roboter"
13:53 <philippeqc> ok
13:53 <wrtlprnft> "die" can mean she or any gender in plural
13:53 <philippeqc> der 
13:53 <philippeqc> "der Roboter" must be "the robot", but for "a robot" what would it be
13:54 <wrtlprnft> "ein Roboter"
13:54 <philippeqc> do you have words that change their termination based on "the" vs "a"
13:55 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
13:55 <wrtlprnft> no
13:55 <philippeqc> robot is quite a recent addition to all languages, imported from russia (I think).
13:55 <philippeqc> swedish does that
13:56 <philippeqc> the apple in "an apple" and "the apple" has a different ending. Though german could be like that too
13:56 <wrtlprnft> "ein Apfel" vs "der Apfel"?
13:56 <wrtlprnft> ah, you mean the the has a different ending?
13:57 <philippeqc> (an apple) ett �pple (the apple) �pplet
13:57 <wrtlprnft> an applet lol
13:58 <philippeqc> lol
13:58 <wrtlprnft> no, not in german
13:58 <philippeqc> indefini vs defini
13:59 <philippeqc> ok was just curious as in "die roboter" the termination "er" is one very common terminaison in swedish.
13:59 <philippeqc> thanks
13:59 <wrtlprnft> er is plural
14:00 <philippeqc> yes
14:00 <philippeqc> i THINK there are some case in swedish where it just definit. 
14:00 <philippeqc> it being "er"
14:03 <wrtlprnft> so, do you actually come from quebec and moved or where does the qc come from?
14:03 <philippeqc> yes, from quebec
14:04 <philippeqc> when i left to travel in europe, I open a hotmail account, knowing that I could probably not reach the telnet server that I used for my mail at the time. That was in 1999. I picked that nick as it was simple and I could give it around.
14:05 <wrtlprnft> ah
14:05 <wrtlprnft> hotmail :S
14:05 <philippeqc> I kept using it afterward to fill in those "please leave an email / take a login to access our web-site" 
14:06 <philippeqc> till I realised that if I came somewhere and the nick was already used, it meant I came there before, and I just needed to figure out what password I used.
14:06 <philippeqc> then I realised Its globally unique
14:06 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
14:06 <wrtlprnft> hehe
14:06 <philippeqc> I'm the only one on the whole Internet
14:06 <wrtlprnft> same with me
14:06 <philippeqc> yes
14:18 <wrtlprnft> #google fight philippeqc wrtlprnft 
14:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft: 9190, philippeqc: 2890
14:18 <wrtlprnft> :P
14:18 <philippeqc> #google fight google wrtlprnft 
14:18 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Unexpected error from Google; please report this to the Supybot developers.
14:19 <philippeqc> #google fight philippe wrtlprnft 
14:19 <armabot> philippeqc: philippe: 106000000, wrtlprnft: 9190
14:19 <philippeqc> #google fight roccoxyn wrtlprnft 
14:19 <armabot> philippeqc: wrtlprnft: 9190, roccoxyn: 9
14:19 <wrtlprnft> no fair
14:19 <philippeqc> #google fight roccoxyne wrtlprnft 
14:19 <armabot> philippeqc: wrtlprnft: 9190, roccoxyne: 0
14:20 <philippeqc> #google fight Roccoxyne wrtlprnft 
14:20 <armabot> philippeqc: wrtlprnft: 9190, Roccoxyne: 0
14:20 <philippeqc> I have been more clean than you
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15:07 <deja_vu_> wrtlprnft: good work there^^
15:07 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
15:24 <wrtlprnft> :)
15:24 <wrtlprnft> wow
15:24 <wrtlprnft> deja_vu wakes me for a change instead of vice versa
15:25 <deja_vu> :P
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16:11 <HAK> hi
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16:34 <wrtlprnft> impatient people
16:34 <wrtlprnft> how can he expect someone to answer within 1 minute?
17:03 <wrtlprnft> hmm, looks like mathexpr doesn't support functions without arguments by itself, but it does support functions with multiple arguments
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18:23 <groundpig> wrtlprnft
18:23 <groundpig> oops
18:23 <wrtlprnft> am here.
18:23 <wrtlprnft> the merge was r5849
18:23 <wrtlprnft> so you can update to r5848
18:24 <wrtlprnft> that will contain z-man's fix (r5845/r5846)
18:24 <wrtlprnft> but not ph's zone model
18:25 <groundpig> ok, i'll give that a try sometime this week
18:25 <groundpig> thanks!
18:25 <wrtlprnft> yw
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18:37 <spidey> wb mkzelda :p
18:37 <mkzelda> ty
18:38 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:38 <spidey> mkzelda, you ready for the ladle ? :p
18:39 <mkzelda> i dont know
18:39 <mkzelda> when is it?
18:39 <spidey> 9pm GMT (US: 5pm EDT, 3pm MDT, 4pm CDT, UK: 10pm BST, DE: 23:00 CES
18:39 <spidey> 4pm central
18:40 <mkzelda> today?
18:41 <spidey> ya
18:41 <mkzelda> well that sucks, i dont have to work but we have this bullshit staff appreciation day that im required to go to, seeing as how im manager and all
18:41 <mkzelda> i have to go eat hamburgers and play in the stupid sun
18:41 <spidey> :<
18:42 <spidey> tell 'em to bite you ;x
18:42 <mkzelda> "i have a very important tron tournament, i wont be able to make it"
18:42 <spidey> hahaha
18:42 <spidey> i told my mom that for the last ladle
18:42 <spidey> ;x
18:42 <spidey> only
18:42 <spidey> i said i have a tron tourny and can't come visit
18:43 <spidey> O.o
18:43 <spidey> so
18:43 <spidey> that leaves us with
18:43 <spidey>  7
18:43 <spidey> which 3-4 i don't know >.<
18:44 <mkzelda> i'll see what i can do
18:44 <mkzelda> hah
18:45 <mkzelda> as long as the supplies are there for the cookout i think i could skip out
18:45 <spidey> lolol
18:45 <mkzelda> i mean, *I* think i could skip out
18:45 <mkzelda> dont know how they'll feel
18:45 <spidey> stay,no need to get introuble for tron :p
18:45 <mkzelda> i dont want to go :D
18:45 <spidey> haha
18:45 <mkzelda> i just had no reason this time why i shouldnt
18:45 <mkzelda> until now
18:46 <mkzelda> so i rsvp'd yes
18:50 <spidey> weird
18:50 <spidey> why do i get 80+fps on linux
18:50 <spidey> but steady 59 on windows
18:50 <spidey> >.<
19:02 <mkzelda> vsync
19:09 <spidey> er
19:10 <spidey> why does everyone say i changed the rubber settings on my fortress server!?
19:26 <mkzelda> it seems faster
19:26 <wrtlprnft> well
19:27 <wrtlprnft> you US guys get less lag there
19:27 <wrtlprnft> therefore rubber will be less effective
19:27 <mkzelda> haha thats prolly it
19:27 <wrtlprnft> why is there no branch?!
19:28 <wrtlprnft> i wanna see why the itw server doesn't let clients in
19:28 <wrtlprnft> if there's any reason
19:31 <wrtlprnft> compiler calls for 0.2.8 are like 2 lines shorter than for the trunk
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19:39 <wrtlprnft> #armaconfig cycle_dist_wall_shrink
19:39 <armabot> wrtlprnft: CYCLE_DIST_WALL_SHRINK: Distance multiplier in wall length calculation. All values are legal. See settings.cfg for full docs. || CYCLE_DIST_WALL_SHRINK_OFFSETDistance: offset in wall length calculation. See settings.cfg for full docs.
19:40 <wrtlprnft> grrrr
19:41 -!- Niii [n=Niii@lnr56-1-82-246-48-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
19:41 <wrtlprnft> these idiots on ITW changed cycle_dist_wall_shrink so clients before can't connect
20:05 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar_ [n=pso@84-74-41-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
20:08 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r5865 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/ (tools/tValue.cpp ui/uMenu.cpp): Removed unnecessary debug messages in the reverse history search code and rebeautified.
20:14 <Vanhayes> spidey could you tell 2020 or gari or anyone from AW that I cant makes it?
20:14  * Vanhayes is painting his house
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20:24 <spidey> lolk
20:27 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: what color? Pink?
20:27 <wrtlprnft> hot pink?
20:29 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-013-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
20:30 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871E91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
20:32 <joda_bot> hi z-man
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20:53 <wrtlprnft> z-man: weird, my hacked client doesn't complain about CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK, it complains about CYCLE_DIST_WALL_SHRINK
20:53 <wrtlprnft> uh, never mind
20:56  * wrtlprnft is too stupid to read the whole post
21:09 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: test it yet?
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21:25 <mkzelda> >:/ ktorrent stalls at 99.90%, 1 chunk missing from everything
21:26 <mkzelda> signed up for a username on forum, been waiting a few hours for email confirmation
21:29 <wrtlprnft> checked your spam filters?
21:29 <wrtlprnft> if not ask guru 3 
21:30 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: what do i have to do to test it?
21:33 <wrtlprnft> my armagetronad development dir is 944MB big >.<
21:35 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: you're already setup for testing such and simply would need to disable your GL accel
21:35 <luke-jr_> as far as why it needs testing, because your earlier test didn't even strain the CPU because the GPU couldn't keep up anyhow
21:35 <luke-jr_> also because you tested with an O(1) expression
21:36 <wrtlprnft> O(1) expression?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> let me just do something else
21:36 <luke-jr_> as opposed to an O(n) expression such as a summation
21:37 <luke-jr_> no, but expressions can and probably WILL be O(n)
21:37 <wrtlprnft> summation is a nice extra but not directly needed by us
21:37 <luke-jr_> A summation is just a simple example of a O(n) expression
21:39 <luke-jr_> nobody will ever be evaluating the same expression 1000 times per frame, either, but it's just a test
21:39 <luke-jr_> and tests really shouldn't aim for common-case, but extreme-case to see the worst case effects
21:40 <luke-jr_> a really extreme case test might be summations or summations
21:40 <luke-jr_> of*
21:41 <wrtlprnft> a good benchmark does common cases
21:41 <wrtlprnft> wow, a summation with 20,000 elements will slow down arma if done 100 times per frame
21:49 <spidey> manta, 
21:49 <luke-jr_> how much?
21:49 <spidey> er
21:49 <spidey> mkzelda, 
21:49 <spidey> ;x
21:49 <luke-jr_> and I wouldn't do *that* extreme a test
21:49 <luke-jr_> unless you can think of a case with a O(n=20000) expression ;)
21:50 <luke-jr_> if tValue can't currently support summations, you could always use some other O(n) expression, BTW
21:51 -!- manta [n=kim@64-118-125-250-as-10.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
21:53 <wrtlprnft> how do i get the current nanoseconds as c function?
21:54 <wrtlprnft> nvm
21:54 <wrtlprnft> got it
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21:57 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: ...
21:59 <spidey> luke-jr_, ....
22:03 <luke-jr_> spidey: w?
22:06 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: ok, my formula is "sin(x)+y^2"
22:06 <wrtlprnft> and I'm getting about 1.73609e+06 calculations per second while doing nothing else
22:07 <wrtlprnft> and that's running on DEBUGLEVEL=3
22:09 <wrtlprnft> if i hardcode the same formula (using the pow() function) i get 7.33133e+06 calculations per second
22:09 <wrtlprnft> #g ( 1 - 1.73609e+06 / 7.33133e+06 ) * 100%
22:09 <armabot> (1 - (1.73609e+06 / 7.33133e+06)) * (100%) = 0.763195764
22:09 <wrtlprnft> #g ( 1.73609e+06 / 7.33133e+06 ) * 100%
22:09 <armabot> (1.73609e+06 / 7.33133e+06) * (100%) = 0.236804236
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22:10 <wrtlprnft> that's 23.7% of normal speed
22:10 <wrtlprnft> short visit, bashusr
22:10  * wrtlprnft doesn't think that's too bad
22:11 <wrtlprnft> oh, and that includes th tValue wrapper which is another function call
22:11 <z-man> Oh, great, ITW server just got shut down and hasn't come up for some minutes.
22:12 <z-man> ah, there it is
22:12 <wrtlprnft> 12 minutes after the match started?
22:12 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: "sin(x)+y^2" is O(1)-- but better than nothing I guess
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22:13 <wrtlprnft> it's the comparison compiled <=> mathexpr
22:13 <wrtlprnft> and i think your thing won't be anywhere close than gcc compiled code either
22:13 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: and that's just raw calculation-- what is the FPS using software GL with a hard coded expression vs with tValue?
22:13 <wrtlprnft> *get anywhere close to gcc compiled code
22:14 <luke-jr_> I think it would be at least 50%
22:14 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: the framerate isn't a good measure
22:14 <luke-jr_> The framerate is a good measure of what is relevant
22:15 <wrtlprnft> no
22:15 <luke-jr_> provided the CPU is doing rendering (software GL)
22:15 <wrtlprnft> it changes all the time anyways
22:15 <luke-jr_> use a recording
22:15 <luke-jr_> then it shouldn't
22:15 <wrtlprnft> won't help
22:15 <wrtlprnft> let's see
22:16 <luke-jr_> anyway, anything significant would be noticable
22:16 <luke-jr_> even with fluxuations
22:16 <wrtlprnft> at a framerate of 25FPS with 100 calculations per frame you get 2500 calculations
22:16 <wrtlprnft> #g 2500/1.70129e+06
22:16 <armabot> 2,500 / 1.70129e+06 = 0.00146947316
22:16 <luke-jr_> you get RenderCalcs+2500
22:17 <wrtlprnft> so this will eat 0.00147 seconds per second
22:17 <wrtlprnft> that won't induce any significant change
22:18 <wrtlprnft> oh, i did my calculations with 10000000 expressions per batch and measured the time before and after
22:18 <luke-jr_> are you discarding the existing tValue then?
22:19 <wrtlprnft> of course not
22:19 <wrtlprnft> that would reparse the expression
22:19 <wrtlprnft> but it isn't cached
22:19 <wrtlprnft> it can't be cached as mathexpr can't know if x and y changed
22:22 <wrtlprnft> or if you want to have an exact value what your new framerate will be:
22:22 <wrtlprnft> #g 1/ 25
22:22 <armabot> 1 / 25 = 0.04
22:22 <wrtlprnft> .04 seconds per frame
22:23 <wrtlprnft> #g 100/1.70129e+06
22:23 <armabot> 100 / 1.70129e+06 = 5.87789266 &#215; 10^(-5)
22:23 <wrtlprnft> so you get
22:23 <wrtlprnft> #g 5.87789266e-5+0.04
22:23 <armabot> 5.87789266e-5 + 0.04 = 0.0400587789
22:23 <wrtlprnft> 0.0400587789 seconds per frame with 100 calculations
22:23 <wrtlprnft> that'll make
22:23 <wrtlprnft> #g 1 / 0.0400587789
22:24 <armabot> 1 / 0.0400587789 = 24.9633171
22:24 <wrtlprnft> a new framerate of 24.94 fps
22:24 <wrtlprnft> i dunno if that's a notable change
22:25 <wrtlprnft> #g 1 - 24.94/25
22:25 <armabot> 1 - (24.94 / 25) = 0.0024
22:25 <wrtlprnft> you lose 0.24% of your framerate
22:25 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: luke-jr_ 
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22:44 <wrtlprnft> i think these numbers are surprising luke-jr_ a bit
22:44 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: would you be mad at me if mathexpr reduced your framerate by 0.24%?
22:44 -!- Nixda817 [n=508fe006@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> of course!  Is that if I use a summation?  Because I use summation every day!
22:48 <wrtlprnft> no
22:48 <wrtlprnft> that's if you let it calculate sin(x) + y^2 100 times per frame
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> tht was with how many different tValues each time?
22:48 <wrtlprnft> ?
22:48 <wrtlprnft> it's one tValue, but it doesn't cache
22:48 <Lucifer_arma> 100 times per frame?  That's a pretty simple formula, though
22:49 <wrtlprnft> it's what you would use in the cockpit
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't cache values?  Like, it doesn't cache the x and y that came in?
22:49 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, if it doesn't cache all the variables that come in, it can't cache the result, right?
22:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
22:50 <wrtlprnft> it doesn't know if and when they'll change
22:50 <wrtlprnft> infact they don't change at all
22:50 <wrtlprnft> but it can't know
22:52 <Lucifer_arma> well, it would have to take the in-coming variables and compare them to its cache, wouldn't it?  But the whole point of using expressions is so we can have it change,
22:53 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i know that it doesn't :)
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> so doing the check for the cache would probably decrease performance, since the whole point is to have a new result every frame!  :)
22:53 <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's a number that looks very nice.  :)  Good work!  ;)
22:53 <wrtlprnft> after all, it was originally designed for graphing functions, so there variables would change too
22:54 <wrtlprnft> it's not my work, thank The Guy (TM)
22:54 <wrtlprnft> whatever his name was
22:54 <wrtlprnft> Yann OLLIVIER
22:55 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: can you tell me the syntax for a summation operation? ;)
22:55 <wrtlprnft> an average one
23:00 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: there is no standard textual syntax, AFAIK
23:01 <luke-jr_> but these tests are using mathexpr-- where does tValue come into the picture?
23:01 <luke-jr_> in fact, how are you using mathexpr? to parse a set of tValues or what?
23:03 <wrtlprnft> no
23:03 <wrtlprnft> it's just another type of tValue
23:03 <wrtlprnft> so you can still combine it in other ways, for example conditions
23:04 <luke-jr_> in C, a summation would be: double v = 0; for (int i = 5; i <= 10; ++i) v += tan(x) * i + i; return v;
23:04 <wrtlprnft> i know
23:04 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: nah, Hot pink would stand out a little too much its going to be white with black trimming, I just got the Primer done today
23:05 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: um, so basically it's an optimized tValue::Add and such?
23:05 <wrtlprnft> but you can't feed THAT to mathexpr
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> how would you do a power series in C?
23:05 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: eh? start v = 1?
23:05 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: i was just joking because ph seems to like hot pink
23:05 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: but mathexpr doesn't actually provide anything new? it's just optimization?
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> ummm, no?  Power series = polynomial of infinite degree
23:06 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: mathexpr can parse strings
23:06 <wrtlprnft> before we had some kind of XML math syntax
23:06 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: ok, so it's primary purpose is parsing strings for you?
23:06 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:06 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: so if there's no big deal with performance, how about I just modify tCode to parse strings into tValues?
23:06 <wrtlprnft> and I don't need tValue's own calculation methods anymore
23:07 <wrtlprnft> how about we just keep mathexpr?
23:07 <luke-jr_> mathexpr won't parse everything
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> what's wrong with mathexpr?
23:07 <wrtlprnft> yeah, indeed
23:07 <luke-jr_> will it parse your functions/callbacks?
23:07 <Lucifer_arma> why do you hate it so much, luke-jr_ ?
23:07 <wrtlprnft> some things will still have to be XML
23:08 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: why?
23:08 <wrtlprnft> because mathexpr doesn't support them
23:08 <luke-jr_> why not have a standard parsing for any kind of tValue?
23:08 <wrtlprnft> it can't do conditionals
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> what did mathexpr ever do to you?
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> tValue is just an internal thing, isn't it?
23:08 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: what did tCode ever do to you?
23:08 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, we use it internally?
23:08 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: it does support callback functions with one argument
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> simple.  tCode > mathexpr is just a case of NotINventedByLuke
23:09 <wrtlprnft> that can easily be extended to any number of args > 1
23:09 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: so people aren't allowed to use conditionals and callbacks/functions externally?
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> for what?  Give me a use case
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> a *realistic* use case
23:09 <wrtlprnft> unfortunately mathexpr doesn't seem to support functions without arguments
23:09 <wrtlprnft> i dunno how hard that will be to add
23:10 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: any use of Player(Closest) or such
23:10 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: well, make such a thing with all those nice features and we'll use it
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> and we don't know anything about C++ and can't hack mathexpr to do that, of course
23:10 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: that's tCodeParser
23:10 <wrtlprnft> in the meantime don't bitch about mathexpr
23:11 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'm afraid mathexpr doesn't seem to be that extensible
23:11 <wrtlprnft> but you can try, of course
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> the way I saw it, you give mathexpr a string and a function and it'll use your function for that string
23:11 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: note tCodeParser is the part that has some functionality
23:12 <wrtlprnft> i need a functionality that can parse, save the parsed result and then give me the result of the calculation when i need it
23:13 <wrtlprnft> and it needs to support pretty much all mathexpr does except summation
23:13 <wrtlprnft> for which I haven't yet found any use in arma
23:13 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: "save the parsed result" can be a chain of tValues, right?
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> there isn't any use :)
23:13 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: yes
23:13 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: IIRC, ph posted a use a while back
23:13 <wrtlprnft> infact that's what i originally wanted to do
23:13 <Lucifer_arma> fine, add a summation operator to it
23:14 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: that's what I've been planning to do these past few days if your tests showed no performance problems with it
23:14 <wrtlprnft> note that i tested mathexpr, not tValue
23:14 <wrtlprnft> especially not a chain of tValues
23:14 <luke-jr_> mind testing that?
23:15 <wrtlprnft> maybe tomorrow
23:15 <wrtlprnft> though it will have to be simpler as tValue chains aren't that far yet
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> you still haven't told me what's wrong with mathexpr, luke-jr_ 
23:15 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: go read the past 5 minutes, z-man's post I referred you to, etc
23:15 <wrtlprnft> basically only sum, difference, quotient, product and conditionals
23:15 <Lucifer_arma> I see bitching, but I don't see why you actually hate it
23:16 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I imagine it would be simple to make a summation tValue subclass
23:16 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: because it doesn't fit our requirements
23:16 <wrtlprnft> it would
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> what are our requirements?
23:16 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: at *least* callbacks/functions with variable arguments
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> go write out our requirements
23:16 -!- manta [n=kim@64-118-124-218-as-04.dialin.oakhurst.sti.net] has joined #armagetron
23:16 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: mathexpr does that
23:16 <Lucifer_arma> the example I read for mathexpr showed that!
23:16 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: my first post in the tCode thread summarizes it, possibly minus the efficiency
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> do you need to see code to believe it?
23:17 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: you said it supports functions with a single argument
23:17 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> your first post in the tCode thread says "wrtlprnft wants to do this, and I don't think he can, so I'll do it and duplicate the effort"
23:17 <wrtlprnft> and can easily be extended to more arguments if needed
23:17 <Lucifer_arma> a function only has one argument
23:17 <wrtlprnft> and there's a problem with fuctions with no arguments right now
23:17 <wrtlprnft> but i imagine that can be fixed
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> no functions have no arguments :)
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> it's called MATHexpr, not CODEexpr
23:18 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: it'd be at least as simple to make tCode use tValue than to fix mathexpr
23:18 <wrtlprnft> what's P(5,2) then?
23:18 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: well, we don't need merely math I guess
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> that's a point?
23:18 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: that's a point that it doesn't suit our requirements
23:18 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: a permutation
23:18 <Lucifer_arma> THAT IS OUR REQUIREMENT
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> that it parse FUNCTIONS
23:19 <luke-jr_> not just math functions
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> YES, just math functions
23:19 <wrtlprnft> for the cockpit we NEED callbacks
23:19 <luke-jr_> that's only the most basic requirement, too
23:19 <wrtlprnft> otherwise we can't use it really
23:19 <Lucifer_arma> we build around that
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> what do you mean can't use it then?  What are you trying to do with it?
23:20 <wrtlprnft> if it doesn't support callback functions with no arguments
23:20 <wrtlprnft> it can't be used for the cockpit
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> what are you trying to do with it?
23:20 <wrtlprnft> we can't use variables for reasons i stated like three times
23:20 <Lucifer_arma> WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO WITH IT?
23:21 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: tCodeParser is 230 lines to support basic math-- add another 100 at most to support math functions and match mathexpr functionality
23:21 <luke-jr_> Is mathexpr < 500 lines?
23:21 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> ok, fine, forget it
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> you guys can't actually tell me what you want
23:21 <wrtlprnft> or no
23:21 <Lucifer_arma> this whole argument is stupid if you can't tell me what you want
23:21 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: a zone that's size is determined by the distance of the closest and furthest player alive
23:21 <wrtlprnft> i want to be able to have the cockpit accept something like "log(time_to_impact_front())"
23:22 <luke-jr_> there's an example use case
23:22 <wrtlprnft> where time_to_impact_front has to be a callback
23:22 <wrtlprnft> if we require that extra pair of brackets or not, i don't care
23:22 <Lucifer_arma> time_to_impact_front is the independent variable
23:22 <luke-jr_> (parenthesis)
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> there's no difference between what you wrote and just "log(x)", which mathexpr does support
23:23 <wrtlprnft> yes there
23:23 <wrtlprnft> is
23:23 <wrtlprnft> time_to_impact_front is an expensive function
23:23 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: mathexpr requires all *potential* variables to be defined
23:23 <luke-jr_> IIRC
23:23 <luke-jr_> and evaluated, as wrtlprnft points out
23:23 <Lucifer_arma> of course, it can't parse anything it doesn't know
23:23 <wrtlprnft> we can't just add it as a variable and calculate it for every expression whether it is needed or not
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> why not?
23:24 <luke-jr_> ...
23:24 <wrtlprnft> time_to_impact_front sends a very long sensor, and this IS expensive
23:24 <Lucifer_arma> but your cycle is moving
23:24 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:24 <luke-jr_> all the cycles are moving
23:24 <luke-jr_> and new walls are being created
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> right, which means time_to_impact_front is a changing value
23:25 <wrtlprnft> but how do we know if the expression even uses that variable
23:25 <spidey> mkzelda, 
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> if you dont' want to spend cycles on it, don't use it?
23:25 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: why should time_to_impact_front be evaluated for sin(x)?
23:25 <Lucifer_arma> did I say it should be evaluated for every function?
23:25 <wrtlprnft> mathexpr doesn't tell us which variables it actually uses
23:25 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: that's all mathexpr allows
23:26 <wrtlprnft> or we make it a function that accepts a parmeter, but doesn't actually do anything with it
23:26 <wrtlprnft> "log(time_to_impact_front(1337))"
23:26 <luke-jr_> lol
23:26 <wrtlprnft> that would work
23:26 <luke-jr_> ugly hack, tho
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> double x;
23:27 <Lucifer_arma>  // Creates a variable named "x" and which value will be x
23:27 <Lucifer_arma>  RVar xvar ( "x" , &x );
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> so why can't you make time_to_impact_front() a variable?
23:27  * luke-jr_ facepalsm
23:27 <wrtlprnft> in the case of time_to_impact_front we could actually do something with it, limit the length of the sensor
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> all you need is a c-style function with a double return value
23:27 <Lucifer_arma> then it only gets evaluated for expressions that use it, right?
23:27 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: how do we know that?
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> so you don't actually know that?  You're telling me it will be evaluated all the time but you don't actually know?
23:28 <wrtlprnft> how do we know which variables are used
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> because it's in the expression!
23:28 <wrtlprnft> we don't parse the expression
23:28 -!- Nixda742 [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:28 <wrtlprnft> mathexpr does
23:28 -!- Nixda742 [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit [Client Quit]
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> [16:27] <Lucifer_arma> double x;
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> [16:27] <Lucifer_arma> // Creates a variable named "x" and which value will be x
23:28 <Lucifer_arma> [16:27] <Lucifer_arma> RVar xvar ( "x" , &x );
23:29 -!- URMA [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:29 <wrtlprnft> that's how you tell mathexpr that variable is available for use
23:29 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: are you actually involved in tValue/mathexpr/tCode stuff or is it enough that wrtlprnft and I understand why?
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> so let me get this straight then
23:30 <wrtlprnft> now Lucifer_arma is annoying me more than luke-jr_
23:30 <wrtlprnft> that's a first
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> wht you're telling me is that you can only tell mathexpr which variables you have after it has parsed the epxression, but it can't parse the expression without knowing which variables we have?
23:30 <Lucifer_arma> fuck this, this whole argument is stupid
23:30 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: does he need to understand, or should I just go code?
23:31 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: i am not
23:31 <Lucifer_arma> fuck off
23:31 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:31 <wrtlprnft> #night
23:31 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:31 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
23:31 <wrtlprnft> he just won't understand what I'm saying
23:32 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: do you think tValue can perform fast enough without mathexpr?
23:32 <luke-jr_> if so, I'll just make tCodeParser output tValues...
23:33 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: it might not be as fast, but still decent
23:33 -!- Nixda384 [n=50e5007f@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:33 <luke-jr_> ok
23:33 <Nixda384> krikey
23:33 <wrtlprnft> the approach with having a parser that would output tValues was exactly what i wanted to do
23:33 -!- Nixda384 is now known as e2020
23:33 <wrtlprnft> hi Niii 
23:33 <wrtlprnft> err
23:33 <luke-jr_> any idea if there's a good C++ way to call a constructor with variable arguments?
23:33 <wrtlprnft> hi e2020 
23:33 <e2020> hi
23:33 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: how variable?
23:34 <e2020> thanks for this web interface and sorry to interrrupt...
23:34 <wrtlprnft> you can make the constructor a template if you know the number of args, but not the type
23:34 <luke-jr_> eg, if I have an array of X number of variables to pass, but don't know the X =p
23:34 <wrtlprnft> e2020: np
23:34 <wrtlprnft> just don't use C style arrays :P
23:34 <wrtlprnft> use a std::deque
23:34 <luke-jr_> ah
23:34 -!- URMA [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC (EOF)"]
23:34 <luke-jr_> and have tValue constructors take that?
23:34 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:34 -!- Legit [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:35 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: a constant reference, that is
23:35 <joda_bot> hi e2020
23:35  * luke-jr_ wonders if he should re-branch to get the current stuff using mathexpr for parsing
23:35 <wrtlprnft> isn't a lot
23:35 <wrtlprnft> after all, mathexpr doesn't create tValues
23:35 <luke-jr_> well, it has the zone stuff which actually has a string to parse...
23:35 <wrtlprnft> it's just a tValue that contains the mathexpr expression
23:36 <wrtlprnft> Legit: e2020: feel free to talk, you don't interrupt
23:36 <manta> 2020 are we still on for 1 hour from now?
23:36 <luke-jr_> actually, which rev did ph merge the zone v2?
23:36  * luke-jr_ ponders
23:36 <Legit> lol
23:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, i dug that out like 3 times now
23:36 <e2020> thanks... the semi finals yeah
23:36  * luke-jr_ will dig it out =p
23:36 <e2020> but the captains should be deciding who to play....
23:36 <luke-jr_> I have the RSS aggregated, even if I don't often read it
23:37 <manta> I can't find durka yet
23:37 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: i merged his branch at r5849
23:37 <Legit> manta?
23:37 <wrtlprnft> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/armagetronad <-- just look for the longest message :P
23:37 <e2020> from the wiki, it looks like aw v sp at zman's ladle
23:37 <Legit> durka  might not be here....
23:37 <e2020> did the world cup go ahead?
23:38 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: in case you didn't notice, the other team captains are in :)
23:38 <manta> 2020 yes it's over, USA pwnd :(
23:38 <e2020> are the results up yet?
23:38 <manta> I feel like starting a war over it
23:38 <e2020> hehhe... been done...
23:39 <wrtlprnft> i like the ladle kind of chaos more than the ITW one... I should have signed up
23:40 <e2020> dang.... it is going to be hectic... the captains haven't made use of the system provided...
23:40 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: thx
23:40 <e2020> from the wiki, they shuold have played at 9pm gmt
23:40 <wrtlprnft> there's 3 captains here, right?
23:40 <joda_bot> I'm here ;)
23:40 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: yw
23:41 <joda_bot> so we'll start to in about 50min ?
23:41 <e2020> what about garissimo,... team captain for aw
23:41 <e2020> yes... but who is playing who
23:41 <e2020> and where.... hehehe
23:41 <joda_bot> SP vs. AW sounds ok to me
23:41 <e2020> we did that last time...
23:41 <joda_bot> we only need another server right ?
23:41 <e2020> it would be nice to play a team we haven't played yet
23:42 <joda_bot> ok fine with me
23:42 <joda_bot> so we'd do WS ?
23:42 <wrtlprnft> is someone from WS here?
23:42 <wrtlprnft> spidey: spidey 
23:42 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=satan@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #armagetron
23:42 <Vanhayes> manta and spidey
23:42 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: I'm so happy to see you back!  *kiss*
23:43 <Vanhayes> e2020: I can play for AW now
23:43 <joda_bot> wb luc
23:43 <Lucifer_arma> re joda_bot 
23:43 <Vanhayes> I thought priming my house would take longer
23:43 <e2020> brilliant.... you could be captain...
23:43 <joda_bot> what about CT ?
23:43 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: unlucky for the team you're going to oppose :P
23:43 <Vanhayes> heh
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> did you guys figure out what you want yet?
23:44 <wrtlprnft> it's clear we can't use mathexpr exactly as it is yet
23:44 <wrtlprnft> so we'd either have to hack it
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> that's not an answer to my question
23:45 <wrtlprnft> but you don't like that as in your opinion functions should always take exactly one argument
23:45 <Vanhayes> joda_bot: CT isnt in this ladle
23:45 <wrtlprnft> or we make a parser that gets a string and outputs a tree of tValues
23:45 <e2020> just noticed... sorry... was looking at the captain list.... 
23:45 <wrtlprnft> we have had the possibility for the tree of tValues for quite some time
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> "A function f is a rule that assigns to each element x in as et A exactly one element, called f(x), in a set B"
23:46 <wrtlprnft> but only an XML style parser which sucked from the user point of view
23:46 <joda_bot> Vanhayes: atleast they're listed in the teams section
23:46 <e2020> how about lol versus aw at zman's and speeders v wraith at bugfarm?
23:46 <Lucifer_arma> Calculus: Concepts and Contexts 3r Edition
23:46 <Vanhayes> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/LADLE_team-lists not that one
23:46 <wrtlprnft> yes
23:46 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
23:46 <Vanhayes> hey Lackadaisical 
23:46 <wrtlprnft> but this isn't really calculus
23:46 <Lackadaisical> hey hayes
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> yes, this is calculus :)
23:47 <Lackadaisical> how is the ladle coming?
23:47 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: I think I branched before the merge
23:47 <e2020> don't you developers want to stick us in some other room so as not to bother you?
23:47 <manta> you want to play for WS Lackadaisical
23:47 <wrtlprnft> the trouble is that we need some kind of variable that's calculated on demand
23:47 <Vanhayes> e2020: ya that would be fine with me, though I dont know about any other AW
23:47 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr_: you did, way before it infact
23:47 <wrtlprnft> i could have told you that...
23:47 <Lackadaisical> yeah maybe not sure
23:47 <Lucifer_arma> aha, and didn't I just post code from the example that shows you how to do that?
23:47 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: that's true for simple calculus but there are functions in R^3 or higher dimensions too... function is just a mapping from one value x to always the same vallue y
23:47 <luke-jr_> wrtlprnft: do you think it would be that hard to modify ph's code to parse prior to tValue? O.o
23:48 <e2020> well... if we decide this... we can alter the wiki... then go around and recruit for the next half hour.... hehehhe
23:48 <manta> we have lost some of our players do to the lalde being posponed
23:48  * luke-jr_ was planning to use that for testing
23:48 <joda_bot> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft: if you want something else name it relation (just from mathematic point of view)
23:48 <wrtlprnft> brb in 2 minutes
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> I want, and as far as I know we all agreed, a function parser
23:48 <Lackadaisical> we can make a channel and go there e2020 
23:48 <Lucifer_arma> something where we can give it an independent variable and it gives us a value back
23:49 <joda_bot> e2020: tell me the name and I update the webinterface to support it
23:49 <Lackadaisical> how about #armagetronladle
23:50 <joda_bot> agreed ?
23:50 <Vanhayes> #theladle works
23:50 <e2020> um.. what do you mean? ah... sounds good
23:50 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: wrtlprnft and I know what we want, and that is best solved for now by merging tCodeParser with the existing tValue
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> if you know what you want, why haven't you told me yet?
23:50 <e2020> tronicladle?
23:50 <Vanhayes> just type /join #theladle
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> I've only asked like 20 times now
23:50 <Lackadaisical> tronicladle sounds good
23:50 <joda_bot> pick one ;)
23:50 <e2020> van... you choose
23:50 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: tCodeParser will parse a string into a chain of tValue objects
23:51 <Vanhayes> #theladle is up already and is shorter so...
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> that's not telling me what you want, that's telling me what you have or what you will build
23:51 <luke-jr_> why I haven't told, is that I am coding more than listening here, and just now noticed you back
23:51 <joda_bot> roger
23:51 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: we tell mathexpr what variables are available before it parses the expression
23:51 <wrtlprnft> but after that we don't get feedback which variables the expression actually contains
23:51 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: we want an extensible expression parser not restricted to math
23:51 <Lucifer_arma> right, and then what happens if a variable it knows about is not in the expression?
23:51 <e2020> i was looking at the servers and zman's has got a huge ping... maybe we should be playing somewhere else?
23:51 <wrtlprnft> so we don't know which variables we need to keep up to date
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> but if you gave it a function that has a double return type as a variable, you don't have to keep it up to date
23:52 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: it just won't use the variable
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> it will retrieve the value on-demand
23:52 <wrtlprnft> RVar takes a float *
23:52 <wrtlprnft> we need to take care of keeping it up to date
23:52 <Lucifer_arma> double y;
23:52 <Lucifer_arma>  RVar yvar ( "y" , &y );
23:53 <wrtlprnft> it's all float, i converted it
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> so if you pass RVar a function pointer instead of a pointer to a variable, you have to keep it up to date?
23:53 <wrtlprnft> you can't pass RVar a function pointer
23:53 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: float *x != float x(float in)
23:53 <wrtlprnft> class RVar{
23:53 <wrtlprnft> public:
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     char*name;float*pval;
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     RVar(){name=NULL;pval=NULL;};
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     RVar(const RVar&);
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     RVar(const char*,float*);
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     ~RVar();
23:53 <wrtlprnft>     friend int operator==(const RVar&,const RVar&);
23:53 <e2020> you guys actually talk code...
23:54 <wrtlprnft> };
23:54 <luke-jr_> e2020: lol, yes
23:54 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: see anything about function pointers? ;)
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> ok, then why can't you add another constructor that takes a function pointer?
23:54 <wrtlprnft> that would be RFunction
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> no, now you're getting stuff confused
23:54 <wrtlprnft> RFunction supports callbacks
23:54 <Lucifer_arma> as far as a mathematical function is concerned, a C function that has no arguments is a VARIABLE
23:54 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: there are 2 ways: extend mathexpr or finish tCodeParser-- the latter is simpler, and easier to extend
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> so you need to just add to RVar another constructor that takes a function pointer to get what you want
23:55 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: the code that uses RVar accesses the stored float * directly
23:55 <Vanhayes> e2020: Join #theladle 
23:55 <Lucifer_arma> and then wherever in RVar it's used, obviously you'll need to change to a function call
23:55 <e2020> right... van.... where is the first match to be played? 
23:55 <e2020> ok how
23:56 <joda_bot> say /join #theladle
23:56 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'll have to look at how it's used
23:56 <wrtlprnft> it might keep the RVar structure
23:56 <wrtlprnft> but it's more likely it just reads out the float * and saves it somewhere else
23:57 <wrtlprnft> so we'd have to change all that code, and all the code that uses the copied pointer
23:57 <e2020> did that work?
23:57 <wrtlprnft> e2020: no
23:57 <wrtlprnft> you're not in that channel
23:58 <e2020> so, do i have to leave this place, then enter it through the wiki again?
23:58 <wrtlprnft> no
23:58 <luke-jr_> Lucifer_arma: it's simpler and more extensible to use tCodeParser-- why do you reject it and insist on using something else?
23:58 <wrtlprnft> it should be sufficient to just say /join #theladle
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> because tCodeParse is NotInventedByLuke
23:58 <luke-jr_> no, tCodeParser is invented by luke
23:58 <wrtlprnft> lol
23:58 <luke-jr_> Maybe "NotInventedByLuke" is something you experience
23:58 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, it saves the float to a member variable
23:58 <joda_bot> e2020: are you using the webinterface ?
23:59 <wrtlprnft> he is
23:59 <joda_bot> e2020: you might need to logout relogin
23:59 <wrtlprnft> look at his hostname
23:59 <e2020> i wrote it already... twice... '/join #theladle'
23:59 <luke-jr_> in so far that you reject anything I come up with
23:59 <joda_bot> as I allowed the channel just now
23:59 <e2020> yes i am using the webinterface
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr_: you're an idiot, of course I reject anything you come up with
23:59 <wrtlprnft> yeah, relogin e2020 
23:59 <e2020> ok thanks and bye....
23:59 <wrtlprnft> hb
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> I've told you time and time again why I think you're an idiot, and you apparently have nothing to say other than "nonsense"
23:59 -!- joda_web [n=543d0d0a@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> which I don't believe

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