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Log from 2006-05-08:
--- Day changed Mon May 08 2006
00:03 <guru3> lol
00:03 <guru3> incidently, sqrt(9) = 3 ;)
00:04 <guru3> and 1 + tan^2(theta) = sec^2(theta)
00:05 <guru3> and f(x) = tan(theta) f'(x) = sec^2(theta)
00:28 -!- j0hann3s [n=j0hannes@i577B8122.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
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00:36 <CraYSuPeRcOm> whats up with fortress doesnt anyone play anymore?
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> a lot of them are pllaying the american fortress server
00:40 <Lucifer_arma> um, has our match with mbc been scheduled?  or do we forfeit?
00:41 <CraYSuPeRcOm> dont know , been out of the loop for awhile
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> me too.  basically, if we find ourselves on friday without it scheduled, and without the other teams requiring a forfeit, I'm going to try to schedule and get it played
00:42 <Lucifer_arma> but until then, I'm out anyway.  Finals week.
00:43 <Lucifer_arma> but I could use a little fortress-driven study break right now :)
00:44 -!- z-man-home [n=manuel@p50872C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: Crazy Tronner's has a better server for fortress ;)
00:48 <Luke-Jr> CraYSuPeRcOm: eg, with maps
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> okay back sry
00:49 <CraYSuPeRcOm> wife cant dod a damn thing by herself
00:52 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i do love the crazy tronners fortress luke but i think sometimes i still prefer the CLASSIC
00:53 <CraYSuPeRcOm> going to play some kind of game , cya
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01:27 <_Lucifer_arma> man, I love thunderstorms as much as the next guy, but three nights in a row?
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> damn wife keeps interupting me, that sucks i was justa about to start playing, 
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01:30 <CraYSuPeRcOm> i now have to sleep good night
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02:28 <z-man> #morning
02:28 <z-man> Eh, Lucifer is here, but not his bot?
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, gotta go turn on the other computer
03:29 <Lucifer_arma> power fluctuated with the last thunderstorm
03:30 <z-man> hope nothing broke
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> me too :)
03:32 <Lucifer_arma> but man am I sick of thunderstorms.  This one didn't look as threatening as the last two, but sooner or later that tree in my yard is going to give, and 50 pounds of wood will fall on my truck
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03:33 <z-man> If I had Texas Thunderstorms here, I'd be pissed at them, too. Luckily, ours are quite tame.
03:34 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  When I was in Seattle for those 4 years, we had 1 thunderstorm.  Lots of rain, only one thunderstorm.
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> all the people around me complained that they didn't get any sleep because of the "terrible thunderstorm".  I managed to show some rare tact and didn't tell them it was weak.  :)
03:35 <Lucifer_arma> this one had the 60mph gusts, but none of the fury of the one last night.  That one was damn scary, with an hour of wild wind before the rain finally fell.
03:36 <Lucifer_arma> The one before that knocked out power for 15,000 people down in Austin, which is the city my suburb belongs to.
03:37 <Lucifer_arma> if we get another thunderstorm tomorrow night, I'm declaring natural disaster.  :)
03:37 <z-man> To whom?
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> probably just my wife.  and my calc teacher, although he won't consider it a reason for missing the test...
03:38 <Lucifer_arma> he did offer an automatic test extension when Rita was looking at us last semester, but didn't promise much more than a couple of days.  :)
03:40 <z-man> Our flat probably is going to get flooded by the Rhine sooner or later. Hopefully later, after we moved out :) The previous record flood height has to be beaten by something like a meter to get to us.
03:41 <Lucifer_arma> is it just your relative height to the river?  Or does the topography favor it?
03:43 <z-man> It's the relative height. We're on relatively high ground, but close to the river.
03:43 <Lucifer_arma> so the water would have to go through you before it found its way out of the valley?
03:43 <z-man> Other areas of the city are lower than us, but protected by natural dams (partly)
03:43 <z-man> yes
03:44 <z-man> and then it floods the part of town where all the rich guys live, har.
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  that kinda sucks.  :)  Still, there's the previous record, but the scientists are promising more extreme weather, which always seems to translate to flooding
03:44 <z-man> right
03:44 <Lucifer_arma> the rhine starts in snow-capped mountains, doesn't it?
03:45 <Lucifer_arma> then picks up a few tributaries along the way?  Or am I confused?  Heh.
03:45 <z-man> yes, it gets fed from the Alps
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> so a really nasty blizzard, or just a lot of snow, and more melt than usual might do it.  Or a glacier in the wrong place melting more than usual...
03:46 <z-man> Exactly. One snowy winter and a sudden warmup in spring usually give us the most trouble
03:46 <Lucifer_arma> we're probably a few years away from that, at least.  :)
03:47  * z-man hopes so
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no such danger around here, anyway.  None of the rivers around here are fed by mountains, except maybe the rio grande.  I think...
03:47 <Lucifer_arma> no, the flooding danger here is thunderstorms.  The wind, on the other hand...
03:48 <z-man> they can do nasty things
03:48 <Lucifer_arma> damn, my secret route home that skips the nasty intersection goes past a stream that tends to flood.  It'll be flooded tomorrow and I won't be able to use it.
03:49  * Lucifer_arma remembers the news reports of 4 tornadoes ripping through downtown Ft Worth a few years back
03:52 <z-man> We've had one (1) tornado last month, coming suddenly, killing two people by surprise, and leaving again. In Hamburg, so not really here.
03:52 <Lucifer_arma> wa.  That's crazy.
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> heh, turns out that tornadoes aren't an American mid-west phenomena.  :)  Although the american mid-west gets more by a respectable margin, they hit worldwide.  :(
03:53 <Lucifer_arma> according to wikipedia, anyway, which knows everything.
03:55 <Lucifer_arma> that truetype version of the old font looks really nice.  :)
03:56 <z-man> Yes, I tested it that morning.  Think we should pack up 0.3.0 with it soon?
04:10 <Lucifer_arma> not sure.  :)
04:11 <Lucifer_arma> ask me again after finals.  There's at least one showstopper bug in the sound engine.  I was hoping to get the openAL rewrite of the sound engine into 0.3, but that shouldn't be a showstopper for it
04:11 <z-man> will do that.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> but wrtlprnft was talking about 0.3 a little while ago, so there probably won't be any serious resistance.  :)  He's anxious to get all his work into a release.
04:12 <Lucifer_arma> I, for one, would like to see what cockpits people dream up.  ;)
04:13 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's a minor thing that I'd like to see fixed before the cockpit gets its first release.  The coordinate system is weird.
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> in 4:3 aspect ratio, no problems, right?  But when you take a cockpit built for a 4:3 AR and put it on, say, my screen, the top gauges go off-screen because the visible height no longer goes from -1 to 1
04:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft was fairly stumped by it, and I've no clue really what to do about it.  I just noticed the console doesn't suffer this problem.  :)
04:14 <z-man> Yes, it's a challenge to both get placement and aspect ratios right
04:15 <z-man> The console, I think, gets squished. /me goes checking
04:15 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not so worried about the gauges warping.  It'd be nice if they didn't, but I'm concerned about them disappearing entirely.  If just the placement were worked out, even if gauge size wasn't affected, that would be nice.  :)
04:16 <z-man> I'd introduce coordinates relative to the screen edges.
04:17 <z-man> like, (+x,+y) is relative to the lower left edge
04:17 <z-man> (-x,-y) relative to the upper right edge
04:17 <z-man> but then you can't place something into the center, grr
04:17 <Lucifer_arma> heh, that actually makes sense and finishes off the line of thinking I was on.  Except I'd make the position tag just have a relative attribute or something like that
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> relative="center" ?  :)
04:18 <z-man> yes, an extra attribute for the coordinate system would solve everything.
04:18 <Lucifer_arma> since, realistically, that's how a cockpit is actually built.  "This stuff goes on the bottom, this stuff on top, this on the side"
04:18 <z-man> Right
04:22 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  units are always independent/dependent, right?
04:24 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm backwards.
04:26 <z-man> I don't know. Units are units to me :)
04:27 <Lucifer_arma> :)  x/f(x) or f(x)/x
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> the question is, x is meters, f(x) is newtons, what's, mmmm, definite integral notation for irc?
04:28 <z-man> \int_0^1
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> definite integral f(x)dx units are ____?
04:28 <z-man> LaTeX code :)
04:28 <Lucifer_arma> heh
04:28  * Lucifer_arma turns on latex plugin
04:28 <z-man> the units of dx are the same as that of x
04:29 <z-man> so if f(x) is newton, x is meters, then f(x)dx is newton*meters = joule
04:29 <z-man> and the integration doesn't change that
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> meters
04:29 <Lucifer_arma> er, I think they want meters/newtons
04:30 <Lucifer_arma> ahhh, right.
04:30  * Lucifer_arma smacks forehead
04:30  * Lucifer_arma was the astute student that noticed you multiplied to get the integral's units in the first place, in class.
05:11 <Luke-Jr> z-man: percentage units solve it, mostly... plus math
05:12 <Luke-Jr> thus, width: 100% - 5em ;)
05:12 <Luke-Jr> but supporting right=0 can work as well
05:12 <Luke-Jr> s/width/left
05:16 <Luke-Jr> but that makes centreing hard, again... so maybe a form of Lucifer_arma's origination location (origin_x=left/centre/right, origin_y=top/middle/bottom) is best
05:37 <Lucifer_arma> #g 3^6
05:37 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 3^6 = 729
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> #g tan(pi/4)
05:39 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: tan(pi / 4) = 1
05:39 <Lucifer_arma> heh.  google's smart
06:10 <Lucifer_arma> alright, I'm as ready for this test as I'm going to be.
06:11 <Lucifer_arma> time for bed, I think.
06:14 <z-man> good luck
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07:20  * wrtlprnft disagrees: relative units to the top and bottom don't solve anything
07:20 <wrtlprnft> then the gauges will be separate on some screens and overlap on others...
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08:39 <cusco> lala
08:39 <cusco> walls from the future?
08:39 <cusco> what are those'
08:42 <n54> they're walls but they're not here right now but will soon be so watch out! :D ;P
08:46  * joda_bot moves a wall in front of n54
08:46  * n54 jumps over it :)
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10:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: try origin_x/y + percentage units
10:25 <guru3> i smell like solder now :/
12:01 <n54> you'e been soldering guru3?
12:02 <guru3> yes
12:02 <n54> what are you making?
12:03 <guru3> made a solar panel array
12:03 <n54> wow
12:03 <guru3> had the panels lying around anyway
12:04 <n54> yeah but that's cool
12:04 <guru3> yeah i gues
12:04 <guru3> s
12:04 <guru3> it's not very strong
12:04 <guru3> just may charge our old cell phone
12:05 <n54> :)
12:05 <guru3> but only in bright light
12:06 <n54> yup but I kind of assume stuff like that
12:06 <guru3> heh well
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14:23 <n54> Lucifer_arma: not sure if you've heard of these guys, I just happened to see their page today and I've got no idea how solid they are, anyway http://www.masten-space.com/careers.html
14:35 <n54> Lucifer_arma: this might also be of interest (just in case you haven't seen it already): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12638904/
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16:12 <SD|bbmonday> #notes
16:12 <armabot> SD|bbmonday: I currently have notes waiting for $1, $junkee, $randomnick, chanserv, everyone, junk, Lucifer_arma,, MemoServ, NickServ, philippeq, phillipeq, and [^w].
16:12 -!- SD|bbmonday is now known as Self_Destructo
16:30 <Self_Destructo> z-man: I have no CVS access?
16:32 <z-man-home> I haven't changed anything
16:32 <z-man-home> The server is down atm
16:33 <z-man-home> I can't get on, either.
16:33 <z-man-home> The message looks like an authentication failure, that's right.
16:35 <wrtlprnft> it asks me for my password
16:35 <z-man-home> I get:ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
16:36 <Self_Destructo> I get an authentication failure, like I'm not allowed
16:36 <Lucifer_arma> can we say "got on my last nerve"?  :)
16:37 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47303#47303
16:38 <z-man-home> Makes me afraid to ask how the calc test went...
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> haha
16:40 <Lucifer_arma> well, the last time I walked out of test thinking I kicked its ass, I got an 84.  nevertheless, I kicked its ass.  :)  I'm in a very good mood, actually, contrary to what might appear from that post.
16:41 <z-man-home> Good to hear.
16:42 <z-man-home> On topic, yes, 2020 can be a teeeny bit annoying with his repetitions. I just ignore him then, but I wasn't on the Spoon.
16:42 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: lol
16:43 <n54> hi Lucifer, did you see what I wrote you after you logged in some hours ago?
16:44 <wrtlprnft> To his defense, I was surprised how good it went... We should have just declared the seed rounds the final results and planned another competition in half a year
16:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: saw it, haven't followed it up.  Just got home from the test, the dust is stil settling.  :)
16:49 <n54> np just wondered if you missed it :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm not going to complain about 2020 here if he's not here to fight back, but I'll admit it's really tempting.  :)
16:49 <Lucifer_arma> and express agreement with y'all, np about that.
16:50 <n54> tournaments always cause stuff like that imo, at least every has so far :)
16:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/17*100
16:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 17) * 100 = 88.2352941
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> the hardest part about a tournament is gettng people to show up.  :)  And whadya know?  that's the problem the spoon has had.  Other than that, look at raw numbers, realy.
17:01 <Lucifer_arma> The SPOON is the most successful tournament I've seen.  Maybe there were more successful tournaments before I got here.
17:02 <Self_Destructo> z-man-home: why put makedist.bat in winlibs? So you don't have to make it for each one?
17:02 <Lucifer_arma> but look, people did self-organize, and then show up and play.  The forfeit rate is less than I expected, to be honest.
17:03 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: yeah... for a mostly non-clan tournamnet it was very sucessful
17:04 <wrtlprnft> Self_Destructo: i think because you need it for both vc and codeblacks
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> if I were going to organize the ladle (which I won't, I'm staying out, now), I'd either require 2020 to take a lead position and pass judgements, lay down the law, etc, or volunteer to do it, and go for a shorter competition.
17:04 <Lucifer_arma> maybe seed based on the American Fortress ladder or something like that.
17:05 <n54> ok well I didn't parttake but it seems very similar to the tournament that was ages ago
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and leave the rest the same, because the first round went very well with very few forfeits, and nobody was suprised to see Formerly Elite pull out.
17:05 <Lucifer_arma> and they were most of the forfeits.
17:06 <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I'll dump all that on the forums in a bit, still settling in, washing dishes, etc.
17:06 <n54> :)
17:18 <Lucifer_arma> joda_bot: my 2-year old likes your avatar.  He burst into laughter when he saw it.  :)
17:21 <z-man-home> Self_Destructo: yes, that's basically the reason. The file is the same for both visualc and code::blocks, but i only care for it in the visualc folder. It'll be better for everyone if it gets moved to winlibs
17:21 <Self_Destructo> ok
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17:22 <z-man-home> Lucifer_arma: Actually, I wouldn't have thought there would be enough players willing to participate in the little experiment of the Spoon
17:22 <z-man-home> And stopping after the seed round would have been a good idea, but we only know that now :)
17:23 <z-man-home> The thing that struck me as a bit odd was a round robin like seed round followed by a KO tournamnent with everyone participating. Didn't get the point of that.
17:24  * z-man-home yawns and rolls into bed
17:24 <Self_Destructo> ok, cya z-man
17:25 <wrtlprnft> night
17:25 <n54> cya z-man
17:38 <wrtlprnft> 2 chars to go!
17:41 <n54> :)
17:42 <wrtlprnft> 1
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17:59 <wrtlprnft> Finished now, I would commit if SF CVS wasn't down...
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> z-man: the round robin like seed followed by the KO tournament is how big league sports in america is organized.  :)  'night.
18:08 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
18:08 <Gnorty> hey
18:09 <n54> hi
18:09 <Lucifer_arma> hopefully this will be the first instance where a clan gets renamed from the outside.  :)
18:10 <Gnorty> did I miss some gossip? tellme the clan in question is fe
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I noticed that this font is a little larger than the old font when displayed.  So I guess there's some size issue in there.
18:10 <Gnorty> cuz they sooooooooooooooooooooooooo need renaming
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: yeah, the clan is fe.  And I've started calling them (from someone else's suggestion, I forgot who) Formerly Elite :)
18:10 <Gnorty> lol
18:10 <Lucifer_arma> maybe we can get everyone else doing the same?  Then they've been renamed.
18:10 <Gnorty> but 
18:11 <Gnorty> formerly implies that at sometime there was some eliteness
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> there is a concession that they were once elite, I know.  I'm willing to concede that for the sake of the renaming.  :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: another way to solve the coordinate problem that z-man dreamed up is this:
18:11 <Gnorty> :)
18:11 <Lucifer_arma> in the position tag, also specify an edge for the origin.
18:12 <Gnorty> luci - are you free for a while? you are prolly my ideal helper
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> not necessarily, but what's up?
18:12 <Lucifer_arma> I'm gonna have to start dinner in a few minutes
18:12 <Gnorty> ^ I think you prolly not free, no worries
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: so, you say like <Position origin="top" x="0.0" y="0.2" /> or something like that
18:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: You know the left and right coordinates, and you can compute the height, so you don't have to worry about being more specific than that
18:13 <Gnorty> whats up is I have a server geared towards something I think you would approve of, and I am having config problems. likely someone else will pop up who can help and is not busy
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: for origin="center" you'd have to compute the center, obviously
18:14 <Lucifer_arma> Gnorty: tell me more?  When I cook dinner, I usually take breaks to come here and check stuff, so my responses might be slow, but I can promise they'll come, anyway
18:21 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: that still doesn't solve the problem with gauges overlapping...
18:21 <wrtlprnft> and what if I want a gauge in the centre that's exactly as high as the screen?
18:22 <wrtlprnft> and yes, the font is a bit bigger... the old font filled only a fraction of the height of the image
18:22 <wrtlprnft> * of the tile
18:23 <wrtlprnft> But if I make out font smaller in fontforge we'll end up with some quirky font that's to small when rendered normally
18:23 <wrtlprnft> * our font
18:24 <Gnorty> wrtl - I havent seen the whole conversation, but for my game stlye, a rubber guage that filled the whole screen would help a *lot* ;)
18:24 <wrtlprnft> I guess I'll end up making a FONT_SIZE_FACTOR setting
18:24 <wrtlprnft> easy with the current cockpit system ;)
18:24 <Gnorty> :)
18:25 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/arma/?min=250
18:25 <wrtlprnft> like that?
18:25 <Gnorty> hopefully easier than working out the apparently easy fortress conquest settings
18:25 <wrtlprnft> you could make it horizontal as well
18:26 <Gnorty> I have looked at a lot of those screenshots and tbh I'm loving your work :)
18:27 <wrtlprnft> :)
18:27 <Gnorty> likely the HUD work will reach release sooner than my skill level reaches CVS compilation
18:27 <wrtlprnft> you could make an alphatransparent gauge that *really* fills the entire screen :D
18:28 <wrtlprnft> like, horizontal and vertical
18:28 <Gnorty> ^ this is my intention
18:28 <wrtlprnft> just ask Self_Destructo how to do it, he's an expert now :D
18:28 <Gnorty> Im guessing that opther guages could easily be placed on top - boring stuff like speed,etc in a size/position similar to current
18:29 <wrtlprnft> sure, once we figured out the coordinate system :D
18:31 <Gnorty> wrtl ^ I would dearly love to reboot my skills so that I could actually contribute to arma, there are many things that I would dearly like to play with, but unfortunately ( prolly not appropriate) I can't really allow the time these days
18:31 <wrtlprnft> :(
18:31 <Gnorty> :)
18:31 <wrtlprnft> maybe I can get one of Self_Destructo, joda_bot and z-man to make an alpha release soon :D
18:32 <Gnorty> I am happier now than I used to be,m but I do yearn for days when I could mess with computer projects and not worry about kids/playschool and such
18:32 <wrtlprnft> :) :(
18:33 <wrtlprnft> :):
18:33 <Gnorty> kinda swapping perpetual contentment for habitual brainbashing and occaisional euphoria
18:34 <n54> ?
18:34 <Gnorty> n54 - I used to spend lots of time hacking stuff, now spend more family time.
18:35 <n54> which one was perpetual? :)
18:35 <Gnorty> the family time is perpetual now
18:35 <Gnorty> the hacking was habitual
18:35 <Gnorty> it is a hard habit to break tho
18:35 <n54> ok then it sounds good to me, be happy :)
18:35 <Gnorty> ^ I am :)
18:36 <n54> :)
18:36 <Gnorty> ^^ reading back it was kinda confusing :)
18:37 <n54> no worries :)
18:37 <Gnorty> it got deleted and edited a few times, and didnt really come out as I thought it
18:38 <n54> happens to me too
18:38 <Gnorty> nah, you just think it sounds cool and want to be like me :)
18:39 <n54> lol
18:39 <n54> I'm past being cool I'm 32 :)
18:39 <Gnorty> glad you have a sense of humour - I saw that on screen and thoguht "that could make me look like a complete wanker"
18:40 <n54> hehe
18:40 <Gnorty> Im 37, you still have approx 3 years of cool left
18:40 <n54> nope, sorry, you're wrong :)
18:40 <Gnorty> although you are at a disadvantage, I am still cool enough to say kewl
18:41 <n54> yeah I'm sure your kids think you are cool for saying kewl ;P
18:41 <Gnorty> althoguh maybe saying "kewl" is actually anti-cool. that is something that seems to be hapening more often lately ;)
18:41 <Gnorty> ^^ lol
18:41 <n54> :)
18:42 <Gnorty> I dont normally IRC with the kids, so its not an issue
18:43 <Gnorty> they are OK when I say it, they think I say "cool", but in seceret, I am really saing "kewl"
18:44 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I wasn't aware there was a problem with gauges overlapping.  :)  I thought the problem was gauges near the top on a 4:3 aspect ratio disappearing on widescreen, which is what I have
18:45 <Lucifer_arma> in any case, you could honor top and bottom in the y attribute, and left and right in the x attribute, and the problem is solved :)
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="top" y="bottom" />  <Size width="max" height="max" />  <--- something like that
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> er
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> so, <Position origin="center" x="left" y="bottom" />  <Size width="max" height="max" />  <--- something like that
18:57 <Gnorty> OK, so I have this idea for a server, to build skills valuable, but IMO neglected in fortresss, but need help
18:57 <Gnorty> the gameplay currently sucks, but I cant work on gameplay until the config is right
18:58 <Gnorty> anyone willing too look and maybe help?
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ VI do really now the diffenrence between to and too, but my keyboard lieks to maintain an elemant of illiteracy
18:59 <Gnorty> ^ and also it is respnsible for the random letters
19:00 <Gnorty> ^ and for missing letters]
19:00 <Lucifer_arma> ok, explain exactly what you've done to accomplish your goal, precisely what your goal is, and what's not working :)
19:00  * Lucifer_arma hands Gnorty the "how to ask for support" handbook
19:01  * Gnorty doesn't know quite what to say to that
19:02 <Gnorty> luci - better I styart the server and demonstarte prolly, but that might not be compatible with cooking
19:02  * Gnorty starts server
19:03 <Lucifer_arma> ok, first what skills are you trying to build?
19:04  * Gnorty invites anyone willing to help to "cats and mice" but advises anyone looking for a good game to stay away, cuz it currently sucks
19:04 <Gnorty> luci - sweeper skills
19:05 <Gnorty> who sweeps well? not many
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> so how have you decided to approach buiding those skills?  Did you make a map, or did you try just using regular config?  You're right, checking the server isn't compatible with cooking :)
19:14 <n54> cya all :)
19:14 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit []
19:14 <Lucifer_arma> also, you've already checked that it's showing on the master server and people cn connect to it, right?  So we're definitely looking at the guts of the problem, not peripheral frequent problems?
19:14 -!- spidey_ [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #armagetron
19:18 -!- spidey [n=spidey@68-114-142-146.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:21 <Gnorty> luci - devised a gameplay basis, wrote a map, but have trouble making the technical aspects work. gameplay is also not as planned, but I need the tech aspects right before I can work on gameplay by adjusting map. I hope you can help - I think you will appreciate what I am trying to do, but you need to really play to see first. brb, need a cig
19:22 <cusco> Gnorty: wake up
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> so is the map loading?  and it appears like you expect it to, clients can download it?
19:24 <Lucifer_arma> also, don't even try to sit here and wait for me.  :)  If you've got better things to do, just do what I'm doing.  Come back every now and then and see if its your turn to talk.  ;)
19:26 <Gnorty> the gameis running, showing on master server and random players are joining, having a sucky time cua it is borked and maybe wont come back!
19:27 <Gnorty> ^ is what I am doing :) I am not sat waiting
19:27 <Gnorty> but you really need to play to grasp the concept
19:28 <cusco> Gnorty: you're killing me on your server
19:28 <cusco> when you go trhu the multizone
19:28 <Gnorty> gusdoc :) is not me, I am idle
19:28 <cusco> yes I know!!!
19:28 <Gnorty> tNow I come and kill you :)
19:29 <cusco> here
19:29 <Gnorty> k
19:29 <Gnorty> concept is this
19:29 <cusco> getting the winzone..
19:30 <cusco> in this case we are the mice
19:30 <Gnorty> mice live in skirtings (dont know if that translates to merkin, but essentially behind the walls)
19:30 <cusco> oops now it changed
19:30 <cusco> we are the cat again
19:30 <Gnorty> there is cheese in another room, (winzone) not reachable by skirtings
19:30 <Gnorty> mice need to reach the cheese
19:31 <Gnorty> cats job is to stop them
19:31 <cusco> so they must first clear teh zones?
19:31 <cusco> how can they get trough the multi zone?
19:31 <Gnorty> cats cannot gop behind the walls (holes too small  (this is why you die randomly as a cat)
19:31 <cusco> aw
19:31 <Gnorty> the zones are there purely to stop cats going behind the walls
19:32 <Gnorty> ( i wish there was a better way, but alas there is not
19:32 <cusco> so cats cannot touch walls?
19:32 <Gnorty> tghat is the concept
19:32 <Gnorty> but it is faulty
19:32 <cusco> ok let the faulty bit for afterwards
19:32 <cusco> cats cannot zone
19:33 <Gnorty> first, a cat can suicide by collapsing a zone, and then other cats can go through (I guess this is maybe OK, if a cat killed himself maybe by bashing a cat szed hole)
19:33 <Gnorty> no cats should not be able to zone
19:34 <Gnorty> I wish for a one team only killzone, but unfortunately a forress is my best option atm
19:34 <cusco> cat szed zone?
19:34 <cusco> ok so I understand
19:35 <cusco> so the multizone
19:35 <cusco> is suposed to be a killzone
19:35 <cusco> for mice and cats
19:35 <cusco> ?!
19:35 <Gnorty> mice also cannot zone, in that the forts themselves mean nothing to a mouse, only the winzone, which is in theory unavailable toi cats
19:35 <Gnorty> cusco- - all the non green zones are meant to be fatal for cats
19:35 <Gnorty>  but inert for micer
19:36 <cusco> ok I understand
19:36 <Gnorty> :)
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so, cats are one team, or individuals with their own fortresses?
19:36 <cusco> how about the multizone
19:36 <Gnorty> the winzone is the mouse goal
19:36 <cusco> why is it multi?
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> is it a sumo in the zone deal, or stand in front of the zone and sweep?
19:36 <Gnorty> there is no cat goal but to kill mice
19:36 <cusco> cats are one team
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> cats own a fortress?
19:36 <Gnorty> the whole idea is for cats to learn to sweep
19:36 <cusco> no
19:36 <Lucifer_arma> so the zone is just a winzone, then?
19:37 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: in my view you have either the problem with gauges going off the screen or gauges being squished or gauges being overlapping...
19:37 <Gnorty> mice are for random players to try to get through
19:37 <cusco> there is a main hall with a hole on each wall
19:37 <cusco> and the hole in front has a winzone inside
19:37 -!- mkzelda [n=mkzelda@cpe-065-190-155-136.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
19:37 <wrtlprnft> and the top and bottom approach doesn't fit very well since I want to have a WYSIWYG editor for cockpit files one day
19:37 <Gnorty> the big zone is a hack to stop one cat suicideing to leave the way clear for other cats to winzone
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I consider the last two problems less important than the first.  gauges being squished can be read.  Gauges overlapping can be corrected with careful design.
19:37 <Lucifer_arma> better check out Qt's fancy widget editor before you write off wysiwyg :)
19:38 <cusco> ahh Gnorty I get u
19:38 <Gnorty> :)
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure you'll be able to accomplish what you want like this.
19:38 <wrtlprnft> well, I'd like to have the editor inside arma
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> for a collapsing zone to kill someone, it has to be owned by them, and that means fortress zone.
19:38 <Lucifer_arma> or you have to hack the server.  :)
19:38 <Gnorty> unfortunately even despite the obvious nastyness of using misconfigure fortresses for one way killzones, there are bugs that I dont understand
19:39 <Gnorty> this is what I need help with
19:39 <cusco> like what?
19:39 <cusco> what bugs?
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> ah.  "bugs that I don't understand" means a developer doesn't understand the bug.  :)  Minor nitpick, but if you don't understand it, how can you call it a bug?  ;)
19:39 <Lucifer_arma> hang on, everybody stop for a sec
19:39 <Gnorty> like cats canb bypass the zones at will and just winzone, which totally kills gameplay
19:40 <cusco> :| that happens?
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_RATE .3
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_DEFEND_RATE .2
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUEST_DECAY_RATE .1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_SCORE 4 # no points for conquering a zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_WIN 0   # the first conqueror does not win
19:40 <Gnorty> yes, i can easily as a cat go right through, ccollapse the zone and not die
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_SURVIVE_WIN 1     # the team with the last active zone wins instead
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_MIN 1   # nothing bad happens to the owners of a
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_CONQUERED_KILL_RATIO .5 # conquered zone
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> FORTRESS_MAX_PER_TEAM 1
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> those are either all of the fortress settings, or the most useful imo
19:40 <Lucifer_arma> so, I'm thinking you'll have to let cats have access to the zone, or else you can't let mice have access to it
19:41 <Lucifer_arma> maybe put some walls around the zone to make it harder for anybody to get in, and have the cats start outside the zone.
19:41 <wrtlprnft> just enter FORTRESS at the console :D
19:41 <Gnorty> luci _)i have toatlly bastardised the settings to suit my (unintended needs)_ and Im not sure if the randomness of their workings is my settings, the server software or just too much to ask
19:41 <cusco> Lucifer_arma: have a go at his server and see what he has
19:42 <Lucifer_arma> I'll check it out when I get a chance, I have to go heat up some tortillas and get dinner on the table
19:42 <Gnorty> all forts are owned by cats
19:42 <Gnorty> but fort def is set to -100
19:42 <Gnorty> so a cat goes in, fort collapses instantly
19:42 <Gnorty> then set so nearest cat dies
19:42 <wrtlprnft> that's not fort def
19:42 <Gnorty> but sometimes not
19:42 <wrtlprnft> thats fort conquest
19:42 <Gnorty> no
19:43 <wrtlprnft> oh, right
19:43 <Gnorty> fort conq is where non-owner is present, no?
19:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:43 <wrtlprnft> sorry
19:43 <Gnorty> :)
19:43  * wrtlprnft feels that he behaves like Luke-Jr :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> brr
19:43 <Gnorty> s'ok, I was also confsed, and I have nothing to do with devel
19:44 <Gnorty> wrtl - erm, not in any way like luke ;)
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I know what the settings do, bubt i didn't quite get what you wanted ;)
19:44 <Gnorty> what I thought
19:44 <wrtlprnft> I thought you wanted a settings like CT fortress chico
19:44 <Gnorty> not at all like fortress, quuitew opposite
19:45 <cusco> lol
19:45 <cusco> very different indeed
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, chico isn't like fortress at all :D
19:45 <Gnorty> all I want is a zone that kills one side, butr is immune to others
19:45 <cusco> wrtlprnft: have a try at his cat & mice server
19:45 <cusco> its on the main hub
19:45 <Gnorty> I wouls even really prefer different maps for different teams, that would be leet
19:46 <wrtlprnft> can you re-explain what you want?
19:46 <Gnorty> ^ is a good game, but atm it is way out of balance, mice totally should own
19:46 <Gnorty> I just want a zone for killing one team only
19:46 <wrtlprnft> so you want zones that only kill one team, right?
19:46 <Gnorty> yes
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that's easy i think
19:47 <cusco> sometimes it kills the whole team instead of killing only the trespasser :|
19:47 <Gnorty> I have that i think, but sometimes they dont die. I think the settings dont really expect -ve values
19:47 <wrtlprnft> but you either have to place all the zones closer to the cats thatn to the mice or do a few map file "hacks "
19:47 <wrtlprnft> is there a server running right now?
19:47 <Gnorty> ^^ the whole team thing wa to discourage chancers. I can fix that easily
19:48 <Gnorty> wwttl yes - cats and mice
19:48 <wrtlprnft> incoming me
19:48  * Gnorty goes to gret wrtl
19:48 <cusco> w8ing
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lol, nice post licufer
19:49 <Self_Destructo> lucifer*
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> heh, which post?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4873316&nav=menu73_2
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> there was a fire near here a couple nights ago, turns out the family's house burned to the ground.  Nothing in the news about it, though.
19:53 <Lucifer_arma> what I want to know is why the sky is full of smoke right now, and why it seems there's very light ash falling from it
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> somebody with realplayer tell me what this is about:  http://www.weather.com/multimedia/player.html?clip=3390&collection=videocoll9&from=wxcenter_video
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> please :)
20:01 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: just a guy on his front porch filming the rain... and lighting hit about 100feet from his house and torched a tree.
20:01 <Self_Destructo> he about lost the camera
20:01 <Self_Destructo> lol
20:01 <Self_Destructo> i would have too
20:03 <Self_Destructo> http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:03 <Self_Destructo> a picture of a CMS Ace built...
20:03 <Self_Destructo> that has phpBB hardcoded into it
20:04 <Self_Destructo> very nice and seamless
20:05 <Gnorty> File Upload Manager v1.3  (C) thepeak
20:05 <Gnorty>  ERROR: your file type is not allowed (JPG), or you didn't specify a file to upload.
20:05 <Gnorty> >>back
20:06 <Self_Destructo> er
20:06 <Gnorty> jpg is specifed as OK (nice page btw, it works for png, and looks very sweet)
20:07 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: with those settings it actually should work just fine...
20:07 <Gnorty> what I thought, but it doesnt!
20:07 <Self_Destructo> heh, it does the same for me when it comes to mp3's
20:07 <Self_Destructo> I don't get it somtimes...
20:08 <Self_Destructo> one time it will upload, and another time it won't, and sometimes it will never upload it
20:08 <Gnorty> pah, looks sweet, but doesnt really work. have you ever thought of working for microsoft?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what?
20:08 <Self_Destructo> what looks sweet?
20:08 <Gnorty> j/k
20:08 <Gnorty> the uploader
20:09 <Gnorty> looks sweet
20:09 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-054-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["on the run"]
20:09 <Self_Destructo> ahh, it's just script i found
20:09 <Gnorty> ah, ok. thought you made it
20:09 <Self_Destructo> on hotscripts.com... something quick :0
20:09 <Self_Destructo> nope... i might build one one of these days
20:09 <Gnorty> can yu send me the script?
20:10 <Self_Destructo> maybe
20:10 <wrtlprnft> might look good, but I still didn't find out how to fetch the uploaded files without popups enabled and without looking at the source code
20:10 <Self_Destructo> Lucifer_arma: click on the <dl>
20:10 <Self_Destructo> grr
20:10 <Gnorty> wrtl - if it is free script, i reckon the pop-ups come wh#ith
20:11 <Gnorty> man, I must learn the differnece between <backspace> and #
20:11 <Gnorty> I always had trouble with that
20:12 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: no idea what's wrong, the code looks just fine to me...
20:12 <Gnorty> the upload script code?
20:12 <wrtlprnft> no, the code in arma responsible for killing zone owners
20:13 <Gnorty> ah, I thought so too. so does that count as a bug in the software as I suspect?
20:13 <Self_Destructo> http://selfdestructo.net/fileupload.zip
20:14 <Gnorty> or am I just trying to get something out that isnt really in? should I ask for it as a feature, or maybe try to hack it myslef?
20:14 <wrtlprnft> it should work, but doesn't for some reason
20:15 <Gnorty> wallfrog.co.uk/salepics < gnorty's attempt at file uploader (works, but uglier)
20:15 <Gnorty> wrtl, so bug?
20:15 <wrtlprnft> Gnorty: guess so... better ask someone who actually knows that code
20:15 <Gnorty> t^heh
20:16 <Gnorty> who would tghat be? should I jhust post on the forum?
20:16 <Gnorty> but the forum is just so,  erm, un-instant
20:16 <wrtlprnft> forums I'd say
20:16 <Gnorty> :(]
20:16 <wrtlprnft> leave the test server up so people can join and test
20:17 <Gnorty> I hate ping IRO hours
20:17 <Gnorty> you think I should post a zip of the map and the configs?
20:18 <wrtlprnft> just post a link to that webserver dir
20:18 <Self_Destructo> ahha..
20:18 <Self_Destructo> got it working right
20:18 <Gnorty> I cannot really leave it up, it is arm my main box, and lives in my living room
20:18 <Gnorty> refer to earlier posts about family life VS puters ;)
20:19 <Gnorty> wrtl link is also my main PC
20:19 <Gnorty> and dont really want unwanted attention on my hosted server]
20:19 <wrtlprnft> hmm
20:19 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p50908F83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:20 <Gnorty> tI think a zip is maybe better
20:20 <Self_Destructo> Gnorty: http://www.selfdestructo.net/fileupload/index.php
20:20 <wrtlprnft> then post a zip, but expect less people to help you
20:20 <Self_Destructo> the uplaoder there is more updated
20:20 <Gnorty> yes, I know :(
20:20 <Gnorty> maybe I post a zip, and say if anyone sees me playing then I can spark up the server - I should be playing a bit the next few days
20:21 <Lucifer_arma> wait a minute.  any reason you don't want to use the central resource repository?
20:21  * Lucifer_arma kicks himself for asking.
20:22 <Gnorty> luci - me? my map is there al;rady. config kinda needs to be local, although if there is a central server host I dont kinow about, I am all ears
20:22 <Lucifer_arma> no, config is local
20:22 <Gnorty> :)
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> but if you get it to work, I'd be happy to put it on my server in the rotator :)
20:23 <Gnorty> but the secret server host?
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> secret server host?
20:23 <Gnorty> thave you played?
20:23  * Lucifer_arma wonders if he missed something, a likely possibility.
20:23 <Lucifer_arma> no, I'm eating right now
20:24 <Gnorty> ok, but Id like to host it somewhere when it is working, so if/when I will give you a call
20:25 <wrtlprnft> hmm, should I add "support" for those flags in our default font?
20:25 <Gnorty> luci - look back and re-read the post before you kicked yourself
20:25 <wrtlprnft> that would mean making faces for the control characters in lower upper ASCII
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I missed something, heh
20:26 <Lucifer_arma> I'm on the server right now
20:26 <Gnorty> s/before/after
20:26 <Gnorty> :)
21:00 <Gnorty> thanks for the input luci
21:00 <Gnorty> tand wrtl
21:01 <Gnorty> ^ random t
21:06 <Lucifer_arma> anytime
21:10 <Lucifer_arma> the news in this town sucks.  Ash is falling from the sky and nobody's bothered to say anything about it.
21:13 <Gnorty> luci?
21:13 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: if you want to try the newest font, I uploaded it: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/Armagetronad.ttf
21:14 <Gnorty> ash from the sky??
21:14 <wrtlprnft> and http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armagetronad.sfd
21:14  * wrtlprnft hopes that's overexaggerated
21:14 <wrtlprnft> or however you spell that
21:15  * Gnorty too, but i need to sleep so my concern is suspended herewith. laterz
21:15 <wrtlprnft> night
21:15 -!- Gnorty [n=Gnorty@cpc1-cosh2-0-0-cust614.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:15 <wrtlprnft> stupid SF CVS...
21:21 <Self_Destructo> wrtlprnft: i aggree
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> not a lot of ash, but there was definitely ash from the sky
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> last time ash fell from teh sky like that, it turned out there was a huge chemical fire in a Mexican factory on the Rio Grande
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> time before that, that I remember, it was a volcanic eruption in Mexico.
21:23 <Lucifer_arma> Ash from both of those events dumped all over texas for several days.
21:30 <wrtlprnft> wow
21:30 <wrtlprnft> we once had sahara sand in the sky above munich...
21:30 <wrtlprnft> that looked extremely cool. some kind of storm blew it over to us
21:31 <wrtlprnft> luckily most of it just blew by and didn't fall down
21:32 <wrtlprnft> but actually... a day on the "beach" would have been fun, too :D
21:43 <Self_Destructo> cya'll tommorrow
21:43 -!- Self_Destructo is now known as SD|away
22:14 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@p5090BEF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
23:59 -!- SD|away [i=tribe@h237.172.40.162.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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