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Log from 2006-05-07:
--- Day changed Sun May 07 2006
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01:26 <Lucifer_arma> I want a script or a program that will slice a picture into smaller pictures so I can cut up the font picture and bring its individual glyph into the ttf font composer
01:50 -!- CraYSuPeRcOm [n=icechat5@adsl-64-216-140-122.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net] has joined #armagetron
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02:22 <Lucifer_arma> anybody want a truetype version of the old font?  :)
02:23 <Lucifer_arma> #message wrtlprnft Started a truetype version of the old font.  Check the New font stuff thread...
02:23 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
02:23 <guru3> Lucifer_arma: sure
02:23 <guru3> is it cleaner?
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> um, sure.  Except, it only has 2 glyphs.  :)
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> but those two glyphs are damn pretty!
02:32 <Lucifer_arma> So, as long as all you have to say as "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", you're fine
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05:26 <philippeqc> hi
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07:59 <philippeqc>  /away
08:02 <philippeqc> the sun is shining, the weather is fine but I'm grounded inside, my alergies killing any possibility of enjoying the experience
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08:33 -!- n54 [n=n54@138.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #armagetron
08:35 <n54> meh the chatlog isn't all that much good with only lucifer and actions being named... *wonders what broke it*
08:52 <wrtlprnft_> philippeqc: that sucks
08:52 <philippeqc> yep
08:52 <philippeqc> but then now I have a good excuse to sit in front of the computer
08:53 <philippeqc> and merge the last 4 weeks changes into my own development
08:53 <n54> it's the sneazy seasion here as well :)
08:53 <n54> season*
08:54 <philippeqc> lol
08:56 <philippeqc> poor lil me
08:57 <n54> ?
08:57 <philippeqc> cant go outside
08:57 <philippeqc> its so nice and sunny
08:58 <n54> meh it's only shiny happy people outside, I'll stay inside thank you very much
08:58 <philippeqc> I was all installed, with something to drink, a good book, but unable to concentrate 
09:04 <n54> which book?
09:06 <wrtlprnft_> yay the arma font is now sufficient to talk about A, B, C, D, and !
09:10 <philippeqc> actually, 3. One scifi novel, one "fact book" (highly recommending it: Guns, Germs and Steel "A short history of everybody in the last 13,000 years") and a C++ book
09:11 <philippeqc> wrtl, I'm in dire need of your help
09:11 <philippeqc> just did a cvs update, and now rFont break everything on include
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> break everything? like what, error message?
09:12 <wrtlprnft_> you need ftgl installed
09:12 <philippeqc> it is
09:13 <philippeqc> and so is freetype2, 
09:13 <wrtlprnft_> has to for ftgl to compile
09:13 <philippeqc> it was working last weekend, now I merged with my code, and I get many warning. I'm recompiling from cvs (without my code) just to be sure
09:13 <philippeqc> it that work, I'll check that I did run ./bootstrap.sh
09:14 -!- spidey|hibernati is now known as spidey
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> wow. You didn't sleep much longer than me spidey 
09:14 <n54> or me :S
09:14 <spidey> how long'd you sleep?
09:14 <wrtlprnft_> from about 30 minutes after you left to about 30 minutes before you came
09:15 <n54> guess I win then :P
09:15 <spidey> what time did i leave?
09:15 <spidey> lol
09:15  * n54 curses phones
09:15 <spidey> man i miss mirc
09:15 <spidey> it has a away script >.>
09:15  * spidey is now playing: Eminem - Role Model
09:15 <wrtlprnft_> #last --from spidey --with bbl
09:15 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: [20:05:52] <spidey> bbl
09:16 <n54> #time
09:16 <armabot> n54: 09:16 AM, May 07, 2006
09:16 <philippeqc> hummm
09:16  * wrtlprnft_ is now playing: Armagetron Advanced: Yet another ligtcycle game
09:16 <spidey> man
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> *lightcycle
09:16 <spidey> watch this
09:16 <philippeqc> a pure cvs update -d and all configuration works, but not the one with my merged code
09:16 <spidey> spidey (5/6/2006 9:51:52 PM): k,night love  
09:16 <spidey> Midget (5/6/2006 9:52:16 PM): nigh hun
09:16 <spidey> i went to sleep at 10pm
09:16 <spidey> my time
09:16 <wrtlprnft_> well, then either something's wrong with your code or your merging philippeqc ;)
09:17 <philippeqc> such insight!
09:17 <philippeqc> ;)
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you go anywhere near fonts?
09:17 <philippeqc> nada
09:17 <wrtlprnft_> did you use rTextField or friends?
09:17 <philippeqc> nope
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> weird
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> what files did you change?
09:18  * wrtlprnft_ would like to be able to hand that over to #eliza
09:18 <philippeqc> gWinzone* gParser* Makefile.am
09:18 <philippeqc> who is eliza?
09:18 <wrtlprnft_> #eliza hi there
09:18 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: How do you do? What brings you to see me?
09:18 <n54> a computer parrot emulation :)
09:19 <philippeqc> lol
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> n54: no, that would be #echo
09:19 <n54> well actually, that's wrong as parrots are fairly intelligent
09:19 <wrtlprnft_> #parrot hi there!
09:19 <armabot> hi there!
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:37:28: error: FTGLPixmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:38:28: error: FTGLBitmapFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:39:29: error: FTGLTextureFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <philippeqc> ../../src/render/rFont.cpp:40:29: error: FTGLPolygonFont.h: No such file or directory
09:19 <n54> so eliza/freud is no parrot emulation
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> did you rerun configure
09:20 <philippeqc> yes
09:20 <wrtlprnft_> and do the gcc commands include -I*FTGL?
09:20 <philippeqc> DEBUGLEVEL=3 CODELEVEL=2 ../configure
09:21 <philippeqc> of course it doesnt
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> look at one of the gcc commands it prints...
09:21 <wrtlprnft_> do they contain  -I/usr/include/FTGL?
09:22 <philippeqc> no it doenst
09:22 <philippeqc> oooo
09:22 <philippeqc> wait
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> then there's something wrong with the makefiles
09:22 <philippeqc> I must have made cvs update from src
09:22 <wrtlprnft_> lol
09:22 <philippeqc> yep
09:23 <philippeqc> knowing its a stupid mistake never help to fix it, doesnt it?
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> nope
09:23 <philippeqc> you still need to figure which is the one in question
09:23 <wrtlprnft_> yes
09:23 <philippeqc> reminds me of a dilbert strip
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> that reminds me of the ;- after 
09:24 <wrtlprnft_> for/while error
09:24 <philippeqc> the boss comes to Alice and say "I've noticed that the right solution is always the last thing you try. I'd like you to change that"
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> works now?
09:25 <n54> lol
09:25 <philippeqc> compiling
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> if it's still compiling that error must be gone
09:25 <wrtlprnft_> or probably not
09:26 <philippeqc> for me it took a while before reaching this point
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> yeah, right
09:26 <wrtlprnft_> FTGL* is included from rFont.cpp, not rFont.h
09:26 <philippeqc> yes
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> we should really limit our conversation in ther to the characters "ABCD!"
09:27 <philippeqc> compiled
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> then I could test the new font :D
09:27 <philippeqc> Aaaa!
09:27 <wrtlprnft_> :D
09:28 <philippeqc> Bad!
09:28 <philippeqc> (you failed)
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> ?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> what's wrong?
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> g2g in 2 minutes
09:28 <philippeqc> : is not in the font
09:28 <philippeqc> its good
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> but?
09:28 <philippeqc> forget it
09:28 <wrtlprnft_> well then, cya
09:29 <philippeqc> I dont have a color prob anymore
09:29 <philippeqc> thanks for the help
09:29 <philippeqc> cya
09:47 <n54> haha has anyone seen the segment "poll smoking" on the daily show? funny stuff :D
09:49 <luke-jr__> ...
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10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 16
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote 14
10:56 <philippeqc> #get quote 14
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: The command "get" is available in the Herald, Praise, and Quote plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "get".
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 16
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #16: "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. - Brian Kernighan" (added by wrtlprnft at 04:21 PM, May 03, 2006)
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 17
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: There is no Quote with id #17 in my database for #armagetron.
10:56 <philippeqc> #quote get 15
10:56 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #15: "You see a body ripped appart, blood splatter on the ceiling, gore all over. Tell me, would you really suspect that worm making a run for it toward the door at 5 cm per minute? No you would not! - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 01:09 PM, April 25, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 1
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #1: "Was this compiled by our friend Sum Ting Wong? --WallyWallWhackr" (added by Lucifer_arma at 11:37 PM, March 23, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 2
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #2: "God gave me fingers and a clitoris, I mean, it's pretty obvious. --Lola Garcia" (added by Lucifer_arma at 12:07 AM, March 24, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 3
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #3: "um, try spelling it wirght :) -- Lucifer" (added by Lucifer_arma at 10:22 PM, March 26, 2006)
10:57 <philippeqc> #quote get 4
10:57 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #4: "left vertical bar is brakes, right one is an early-90s roleplaying game made by White Wolf before they went all Magic: The Gathering happy -- armabot (markov)" (added by wrtlprnft at 10:24 PM, March 26, 2006)
12:22 <n54> lazy sunday :)
12:23 <n54> hmm is quote #15 correct? *thought we changed it to include some more*
12:27 <philippeqc> #quote get 14
12:27 <armabot> philippeqc: Quote #14: "On a full moon, Christopher Walken transform in a wereworm. Not as dangerous as a werewolf, but twice as cunning. - philippeqc" (added by n54 at 12:58 PM, April 25, 2006)
12:27 <philippeqc> the "more" is there
12:36 <n54> ooh
12:37 <philippeqc> if you see this as prob, feel free to fix it ;)
12:47 <philippeqc> http://pastebin.com/703794
12:47 <philippeqc> why cant B access A's aa?
12:47 <philippeqc> when J can access I's ii
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> weird
12:54 <wrtlprnft_>   B(): A<T>() { cout << A<T>::aa <<endl;}
12:54 <wrtlprnft_> that works
12:55 <philippeqc> yes, indeed, it is very weird
12:56 <wrtlprnft_> as long as something works...
12:57 <philippeqc> yes, I was about to say that I was ready to use this
12:57 <philippeqc> but I was busy getting myself a glass of wine
12:57 <philippeqc> thanks
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> yw
12:57 <wrtlprnft_> look at my AutoDeque... the syntax is crazy at some places
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque(9
12:59 <philippeqc> I'm looking to expand cValue::Base to support std::deque<T> GetDeque()
12:59 <philippeqc> that has its own crazyness
12:59 <wrtlprnft_> Why don't you just make a deque of tValue::Base references?
13:00 <wrtlprnft_> then you could handle different kinds of values in one deque and nested deques
13:00 <philippeqc> I'll have one such
13:00 <philippeqc> but I'll need a deque of <T>
13:01 <wrtlprnft_> if you say so... fine with me, as long ays it works nicely
13:01 <philippeqc> I'm working on a side file
13:02 <philippeqc> for the deque of tValue::Base, I just dont know what it would "mean"
13:02 <wrtlprnft_> it would be nested tValues
13:02 <philippeqc> GetInt() {std::deque<T> asdf; return asdf.front().GetInt();}
13:03 <philippeqc> yes, but there would be many for different needs
13:04 <philippeqc> for my part, I want to build a library of basic operation for the deque<T> over Base, such as "union" "intersection" "difference" "pick one"
13:04 <wrtlprnft_> don't you already have that with generic algorithms?
13:06 <philippeqc> not pick one
13:06 <philippeqc> but yes, I know that union ~ merge
13:06 <philippeqc> and such
13:09 <philippeqc> I'm still exploring, and before I commit, I'll bounce it on you. I'm sure you will be able to point out any faults of concept
13:10 <philippeqc> but I need that support for the zone capacities I've been workign on
13:10 <wrtlprnft_> I won't nitpick, I'm a noob to c++ myself :D
13:12 <philippeqc> I think its conceptually complex, so I'm quite sure I'll make a few concept errors
13:12 <philippeqc> (or at least I feel it is)
13:13 <wrtlprnft_> I'll have a look at it if you like, sure :)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_11.png
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> isn't that a great font? ;)
13:14 <wrtlprnft_> so... complete...
13:15 <joda_bot> :)
13:15 <philippeqc> fix 0-9 and we can hex each other
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> lol
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> you can already write "AFFE!"
13:15 <wrtlprnft_> AFFE BAFF!
13:16 <philippeqc> 0x4c0x4f0x4c
13:16 <philippeqc> = lol
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> so i have to fix X as well :D
13:17 <philippeqc> 4c4f4c!
13:17 <wrtlprnft_> (affe = german word for monkey, baff = stunned)
13:17 <philippeqc> pff, who need to encoumber ourself with 0's and x's
13:17 <philippeqc> fad
13:19 <philippeqc> we will all need to brush off our l33t.
13:19 <philippeqc> its a neat font, what is your inspiration? is it the old one?
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:20 <wrtlprnft_> the whole point is to get rid of the old font code while allowing people to stay close to what they're used to
13:21 <wrtlprnft_> But I'd say we shouldn't make it the default
13:21 <philippeqc> I rarely defend a point on the ground of "it was the way it was before"
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> It won't be exactly the old font
13:22 <wrtlprnft_> but a bit like it
13:24 <philippeqc> Well, your doing a good job!
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> thanks!
13:24 <luke-jr__> how are you making it?
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> the A and ! are by luci, though
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> fontforge
13:24 <wrtlprnft_> look in the forums
13:24 <luke-jr__> ?
13:24 <luke-jr__> maybe later
13:25 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47194#47194
13:25 <philippeqc> You really got my hopes high! I dont see any quick way to do the deque union, intersection and subs. Grr
13:26 <wrtlprnft_> kinda hard if they're not sorted
13:26 <philippeqc> O(N*M)
13:27 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:27 <philippeqc> Order of N * M, where N is the size of the first deque, and M the second
13:27 <philippeqc> and if they are sorted, its O(N+M)
13:28 <philippeqc> well, I'll build them for small ranges, and if someone need more performance, he can always improve on them.
13:28 <wrtlprnft_> :)
13:30 <wrtlprnft_> font making with a touchpad is soo much fun, believe me
13:30 <philippeqc> ;)
13:30 <philippeqc> my gf got hers
13:30 <philippeqc> but I havent really tried it
13:31  * wrtlprnft_ just got a mouse from inside :D
13:31 <philippeqc> from inside?
13:31 <wrtlprnft_> yes
13:32  * wrtlprnft_ is sitting outside with WLAN
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> sunny here
13:32 <philippeqc> oooooooooooooooo
13:32 <philippeqc> nice
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb".
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, manitoba
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, canada
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> !
13:32 <philippeqc> I trust you
13:32 <wrtlprnft_> #weather winnipeg, mb, ca
13:32 <armabot> wrtlprnft_: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "winnipeg, mb, ca".
13:32  * wrtlprnft_ gives up
13:34 <philippeqc> poor you
13:34 <wrtlprnft_> ?
13:35 <philippeqc> I beleive in you, its sunny, ok, I get it ;)
13:35 <philippeqc> :P
13:40 <guru3> #weather gothenburg, sweden
13:40 <armabot> guru3: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <guru3> grumble
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sweden
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not find weather information.
13:40 <philippeqc> #weather stockholm, sverige
13:40 <armabot> philippeqc: Error: Could not retrieve weather for "stockholm, sverige".
13:40 <guru3> n54: english paper 2 tomorrow
13:56 <philippeqc> sooner this week there was a post about backdrop/desktop image from crazy tronner
13:56 <philippeqc> anyone can find back the post
13:58 <wrtlprnft_> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=3415
14:01 <philippeqc> ha!!! he spelled tronner with only one "n"
14:01 <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what those files even are
14:02 <wrtlprnft_> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_12.png
14:03 <wrtlprnft_> with a bit of thinking you could almost have a conversation now!
14:03 <guru3> heh
14:04 <philippeqc> WOW
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> I should add the space to the font as well... that's the easiest char I guess
14:04 <guru3> operative word being almost eh?
14:04 <philippeqc> GXXD XXXK!
14:04 <wrtlprnft_> heh. L is in the font
14:05 <philippeqc> There is no L in Good work
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> oh
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> i thought that was good luck
14:05 <guru3> lol
14:05 <philippeqc> you dont seem to need luck, at the rate your going!
14:05 <wrtlprnft_> XX (that means ty)
14:07 <philippeqc> ok
14:07 <philippeqc> cya
14:07 <philippeqc> good night
14:09 <wrtlprnft_> night
14:09 <n54> ah hi guru3 I'm dong too much right now so I haven't kept up with the chat for an hour I think, but best of luck :D I'm just prrofreding a reply to lucifer then I'll start looking through the various irc channels :)
14:09 <n54> doing*
14:10 <guru3> cool
14:15 -!- philippeqc [n=philippe@c83-250-130-90.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:26 <wrtlprnft_> wow. Q is a mess to create...
14:52 <n54> I'm impressed you pick up font forge so quickly:I tried fontforge a long while ago and it had issues then *goes to look at their page to see if I can see any changes*
14:55 <luke-jr__> <guru3> i need a linux app capable of opening qb files ".bas"
14:55 <luke-jr__> guru3: KWrite?
14:55 <luke-jr__> vim? nano?
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: nedit ?
14:56 <luke-jr__> sure
14:56 <joda_bot> luke-jr__: no idea though ;)
14:56 <luke-jr__> should be plain text =p
14:57 <luke-jr__> unless he wants syntax hilighting or something
14:57 <joda_bot> hm, does not make much sense otherwise
14:58 <guru3> luke-jr__: it's not plain text
14:58 <luke-jr__> guru3: um... you saved it as uncompressed?
14:58 <guru3> i'm just running qb in dosbox tho
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14:59 <guru3> good night ya'll
15:00 <n54> cya guru3 :)
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15:06 <wrtlprnft_> n54: fontforge isn't that hard, and they have a nice tutorial :)
15:06 <n54> it's still java is it?
15:07 <n54> yeah I looked a bit around but well... I wont try it right now anyway
15:07 <n54> I see it still has hinting problems etc.
15:08 <wrtlprnft_> no idea what it is written in... I just typed emerge fontforge and did something else while it compilied ;)
15:09 <wrtlprnft_> but it starts up to fast to be written in java
15:09 <n54> np :)
15:10 <n54> I wish it could simply import vector graphics, that would be nice, like from inkscape :)
15:11 <n54> but it will get better, it's obvious fromthe webpage it has continued development since last I tried it
15:12 <wrtlprnft_> :)
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15:23 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_13.png
15:23 <wrtlprnft> now you can even a cinversation if you yell all the time :D
15:26 <n54> hehe :)
15:27 <n54> man sweet work though, I want to try this myself at some point in the future
15:28 <wrtlprnft> still lots of space for refinements :D
15:29 <n54> theyae'll be done before I get up to speed :)
15:30 <wrtlprnft> nah
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15:38 <wrtlprnft> omg &- sign... that's gonna be a tough one...
15:41 <n54> :)
16:59 <wrtlprnft> yay got all chars up to ASCII 90 now
17:00 <n54> cool
17:01 <wrtlprnft> which leaves me with a few easy chars like [] and all the lowercase letter
17:02 <wrtlprnft> Then some chars in upper ASCII, but fontforge can autogenerate all the accented chars by itself
17:02 <n54> ok
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17:25 <n54> don't forget the really weird ones like german double s and ae?? :)
17:25 <wrtlprnft> did you guys ever notice that the lowercase letters in the big font are one pixel lower than all other chars?
17:26 <wrtlprnft> heh. � isn't weird
17:26 <n54> yeah I fixed it privately at least but not sure if I did in the public
17:26 <wrtlprnft> and ae it makes by itself
17:26 <n54> ok
17:26 <wrtlprnft> question: should I fix it for my font?
17:27 <n54> try it, iirc there were something about it not sure if it was better to lower one or raise the other
17:27 <n54> what little I did I did years ago
17:27 <wrtlprnft> well, all the other chars I already put on the right baseline
17:28 <n54> but actually that might not apply any more with ftgl so just make it equal
17:29 <n54> does ftgl have easily accesible kerning options?
17:29 <wrtlprnft> don't think so
17:30 <wrtlprnft> and heck, we're talking about the messy old font :D who cares?
17:30 <n54> hehe :)
17:31 <n54> did you change stuff like lowercase m & w?
17:32 <wrtlprnft> I'm just starting with lowercase a
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17:33 <n54> ok, well if you want something similar to the default font but that has cahnged some of the ugliest stuff just search the forum for those old old alternatives I made
17:34 <n54> and it's public domain as far as  am concerned
17:34 <n54> I*
17:35 <wrtlprnft> Well, I want to make it a bit close to the old font :D
17:35 <wrtlprnft> or Lucifer_arma wants that, to be exact
17:35 <n54> my alternative is very similar to the old font
17:35 <n54> extremely similar actually
17:35 <wrtlprnft> I'll look for it
17:36 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: I'm finished with all chars from space to lowercase a
17:36 <n54> hi Lucifer
17:38 <Lucifer_arma> do they work?  I kept fooling with it last night and in-game, I started getting just red squares instead of the letters I drew
17:39 <wrtlprnft> same for me, but FONT_TYPE 2 and FONT_TYPE 1 work...
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> also, it might be worth dumping part of a serif font into the rest.  :)  I considered importing a generic serif font and starting from there, changing the letters to match instead of drawing them from scratch :)
17:39 <Lucifer_arma> those make it work?
17:39 <wrtlprnft> yes
17:40 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  No worries then.  :)  We just disable the one that doesn't work, or we have an FAQ to deal with it :)
17:40 <wrtlprnft> I guess it's some wrong param in fontforge...
17:40 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: nope, that's the good one..
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 1 is slow and 2 is ugly
17:40 <wrtlprnft> 3 is the best one IMHO
17:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I relly really really hope Carmac starts hiring before I finish my degree.  I don't want to live in the D/FW area, but if it's to work for Armadillo Aerospace, I think I can manage it.
17:49 <n54> hehe :)
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> I'll say the same thing about fonts that I did about cockpit.  :)  I'd like to have a new standard font that looks better than the old font and works with all the new stuff,
17:49 <Lucifer_arma> and the old font available for the "classic" look :)
17:50 <n54> Armadillo would be something that's true, however I've always been a bit dubious as to their designs, on the other hand doing practical experimentation has a lot of good to be said of it
17:50 <wrtlprnft> but for a new non-classic font we can as well use a premade font
17:50 <wrtlprnft> making a font with lots of unicode characters will be a pain
17:53 <Lucifer_arma> yes, and there are plenty of fonts, not just from fontforge but plenty of others.  Also, we now support Adobe fonts too :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I don't know that Armadillo has much of a future, but they've got cool stuff going on, anyway.  The neat thing about them is that I could be an X-cup competitor for awhile and hopefully get some wins on my record before moving on
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> and you're right about there being a lot of space industry around here.  :)
17:54 <Lucifer_arma> AA is literally a 3 hour drive from my house.  :)
17:55 <n54> hmm not sure if they're aiming for x-cup participation? it's been ages since I've been to their pages so well perhaps?
17:55 <n54> :)
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17:59 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, AA is headed for x-cup participation.
17:59 <n54> ok
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> which is particularly neat because the X-cup is going to be held out where I went to high school, and my parents and brother and his family all live there
17:59 <n54> hehe lets just hope nothing blows up ;)
17:59 <Lucifer_arma> so if I could work for AA, not only would I get x-cup participation, but I also get to visit my parents and brother once a year :)
18:00 <Lucifer_arma> (and my daughter gets an annual trip to the space museum she loves so much, in the complex where I used to volunteer at the planetarium back in high school)
18:01 <n54> x-cup 1 is in which state again?
18:01 <Lucifer_arma> New Mexico.  They're building the grounds for it out at White Sands
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> ~12 hours drive from here
18:02 <n54> oh ok
18:02 <Lucifer_arma> White Sands is next to Alamogordo, of course, and I graduated from Alamogordo High School in 1993 :)
18:02 <n54> :)
18:03 <n54> I only know white sands for the military base and testing range and iirc a rather cool story about a small radiation mishap involving robots :)
18:03 <n54> oh and a cool micker rourke movie of course :D
18:03 <n54> mickey*
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> there's also a neat park where you can drive into the dunes and bbq and stuff
18:04 <n54> cool
18:04 <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, the base is 15 minutes from Holloman AFB, which in turn is about 5 minutes out of Alamogordo
18:05 <Lucifer_arma> there's also supposed to be a spaceport being built in Fort Stockton, which is the halfway point between Austin and El Paso, so ~5 hours drive from here
18:05 <n54> if at all able I'm going to got to thesouthwest before I die :)
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> AA takes their big rocket out there to test it
18:06 <n54> yeah they're sort of popping up all over the place, california, oklahoma...
18:06 <Lucifer_arma> the southwest is a beautiful place.  If it wasn't such a backwater little hellhole, I'd still be living there.
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> Kansas.  :)  My other brother has the company that has the security contract for the air port/space port in Salina, KS, where the Virgin guy is operating.
18:07 <n54> yeah but that can be good as well as bad
18:07 <n54> ok :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> you'd like it, I'm sure.  You'd love the southwest.  :)
18:07 <Lucifer_arma> well, time to start dinner, bbl
18:07 <n54> yeah I kind of think so too, not sure if that might not be a bad thing though lol :D
18:08 <n54> cya
18:09 <wrtlprnft> cya
18:13 <n54> btw yeah wrtlprnft fontmaking can be a pain
18:15 <n54> but it can also be kind of relaxing
18:15 <n54> in a sort of fiddly fashion
18:16 <wrtlprnft> :D
18:17 <n54> :)
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19:15 <cusco> bell
19:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
19:21 <n54> pling-pling?
19:22 <n54> I rarely see cusco talk and when he does it's a mystery! XD j/k :)
19:24 <spidey> man
19:24 <spidey> i love yahoo d00d
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: his cuzin hacked into da aol network
19:24 <spidey> self.obsession: 
19:24 <spidey> babygurl_dynasty2000: its called pingin ur ip
19:24 <spidey> spidey: i gotta put this on bash.org
19:24 <spidey> spidey: lmao
19:28 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: hey, when we have all the letters and most of the punctuation (and all the numbers), can we get FONT_FILE Armagetronad.ttf as default setting?
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> Also, we should consider making it a Type1 font instead.
19:29 <wrtlprnft> ok
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> And finally, if you looked at the unicode bit for fontforge, there's actually a simpler way to get accents on the letters.  :)
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I got all the ascii now
19:29 <wrtlprnft> i know there is
19:29 <Lucifer_arma> but what I was thinking was making it a default when it's not necessarily finished is that it would maybe push people to finish it, if you don't get it finished, that is
19:29 <wrtlprnft> I'll commit, but until I have all the latin-1 chars I won't change the default
19:30 <wrtlprnft> well, there isn't a lot left now
19:30 <wrtlprnft> as you already noticed, there's lots of chars I can autogenerate
19:30 <Lucifer_arma> look into anchors in fontforge.  It looks like you can just draw the accents themselves and then put anchors for the letters for where to put them, so you don't have to hand-draw the rest
19:30 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/screenshot_14.png
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> no, I didn't.  Did you install that autotrace program?  I tried it, but it made fontforge segfault on me
19:31 <wrtlprnft> I'll see what it does
19:31 <n54> nice shot
19:31 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, looks pretty complete
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, all the ASCII chars :D
19:32 <Lucifer_arma> and everybody will stop complaining about "what about the old font? *whine*" :)
19:32  * wrtlprnft hopes so
19:32 <n54> :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> committed
19:43 <wrtlprnft> but to be honest, I like the new font more :D
19:43 <wrtlprnft> So we should include some fonts and make a menu item to switch between them
19:43 <n54> :)
19:43 <n54> good idea
19:43 <wrtlprnft> and make that bitstream font I have now default and then offer the "traditional" fonr
19:44 <wrtlprnft> t
19:45 <n54> sure, just make a menu item that accepts adding new fonts too :)
19:45 <wrtlprnft> well, eventually fonts should be resources
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> we also need to make available system fonts :(
19:45 <Lucifer_arma> and we need to have a way to ship fonts with resources
19:45 <wrtlprnft> someone else's job
19:46 <wrtlprnft> the system font stuff
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  :)
19:46 <Lucifer_arma> the resource manager should scan the system font directories, to be honest.  So code that uses fonts doesn't care where it comes from...
19:47 <wrtlprnft> that build menu is grayed out for me :(
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> so if you could just hook the fonts into the resource manager and make the resource manager know about fonts that ship with the game, that's probably enough :)
19:47 <n54> I'd kinda prefer not to scan the system fonts but that's just because I've got so much crud there -- my problem I know :S :D
19:47 <Lucifer_arma> probably need a use flag of some sort to get it.  Kubuntu's package was pretty generic and let me have everything--if I had enough ancillary programs installed, that is
19:48 <wrtlprnft> woot
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> n54: I'm in half-way agreement with you.  Someone makes a cockpit that uses a system font on Windows....  see the problem?
19:48 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:48 <n54> yeah absolutely
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> so in a way, I'd like to ignore system fonts entirely and just make fonts resources and that's that.
19:48 <wrtlprnft> just made LOTS of characters with accents
19:48 <Lucifer_arma> :)  figure out anchors, or was it something else?
19:49 <wrtlprnft> no, i had to select a buch of glyphs first
19:49 <wrtlprnft> omg
19:49 <n54> good, bad?
19:49 <Lucifer_arma> also, try generating it as a Type1 font and see if that straightens it out the way you want it for FONT_TYPE.  Since ftgl supports other font formats, we don't have to marry ttf with this font.
19:50 <wrtlprnft> for i with accents it put the accent over the dot
19:50 <wrtlprnft> like � becomes an i with a dot and an accent over the dot
19:50 <n54> :D
19:50 <Lucifer_arma> that's bad, I take it?  You want the accent in place of the dot?
19:50 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <n54> it's possible to just do a manual fix?
19:51 <wrtlprnft> yes
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> the only problem I saw with Type1 fonts is that there's no default glyph for a character that's missing, it just doesn't get displayed.  So we'd have to fill it out a bit deeper
19:51 <wrtlprnft> #g 176-128
19:51 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 176 - 128 = 48
19:51 <Lucifer_arma> but then you can put your 42 in for unknown characters.  :)
19:52 <wrtlprnft> what the heck IS a type1 font?
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Adobe font.  It's what's mostly used in Linux, since ttf has patent problems.
19:52 <Lucifer_arma> Postscript font, that's it
19:52 <wrtlprnft> I don't really care... at least that would make those flags display again ;)
19:53 <wrtlprnft> #canada
19:53 <armabot>  4 
19:53 <n54> ttf has patent problems?
19:54 <wrtlprnft> probably had
19:54 <wrtlprnft> like gif
19:54 <n54> hmm
19:55 <Lucifer_arma> bytecode interpreter is patented
19:55 <wrtlprnft> is there any way to change the keybindings of fontforge
19:56 <wrtlprnft> a useful command, average pints, is bound to shift-ctrl-@, which I can't type on this keyboard
19:56 <n54> hmm that's disappointing, about ttf I mean
19:58 <wrtlprnft> #g 184-128
19:58 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 184 - 128 = 56
19:58 <wrtlprnft> thanks armabot :D
20:00 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know about changing keybinds in fontforge.  The guy's pretty antisocial about the program, so it's not very configurable.
20:01 <wrtlprnft> Ah, there's a dotlessi glyph I can use :D
20:02 <n54> dotlessi = without a dot? lol :)
20:02 <wrtlprnft> thanks anyways... lots of klicking
20:03 <Lucifer_arma> I will admit, the only reason I fooled with it was to show we could have the old font in ttf or whatever.  :)  But if nobody had done it, I'd still have beat on it after finals.
20:04 <wrtlprnft> how do i get to unicode characters in that font?
20:18 <Lucifer_arma> um, the answer to that is in the fontforge docs.  I read it, but don't remember what it said.  :)
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I found it out now
20:19 <wrtlprnft> I have to convert the entire font
20:21 <wrtlprnft> #g 247-128
20:22 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 247 - 128 = 119
20:28 <wrtlprnft> g 272-128
20:28 <wrtlprnft> #g 272-128
20:28 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 272 - 128 = 144
20:29 <n54> what are you calculating?
20:32 <wrtlprnft> since there's a font_extra.png which contains all the chars >= 128 but imagemagic restarted at 0 when splitting that one I need to calculate which file I need to import to trace :D
20:32 <n54> oh :)
20:42 <wrtlprnft> phew finished the sharp s (�) :D
20:42 <wrtlprnft> masterpiece :D
20:42 <n54> gaim doesn't show it but I guess it's a different s than the weird german one? :)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> that's exactly that one, just that it's not weird
20:43 <n54> (the one that looks like a beta)
20:43 <wrtlprnft> like a beta
20:43 <wrtlprnft> yes
20:43 <n54> ah ok I thought that was a double s
20:43 <n54> of course it's weird ;D
20:43 <wrtlprnft> double s is ss :D
20:44 <n54> "snabel-S" i.e. "trunk-S" :)
20:44 <wrtlprnft> but yes, they have a similar meaning
20:44 <wrtlprnft> � comes after "weak" vovels and ss after harder ones
20:44 <n54> yeah long long ago a different glyph with a similar sort of meaning was used in denmark and norway too :)
20:46 <n54> anyway I think it's a cool glyph (but it's still "weird") ;P
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21:05 <n54> hi
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15(16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: 15 * (16 * 100) = 24,000
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 15/16*100
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: (15 / 16) * 100 = 93.75
21:09 <wrtlprnft> yay finished the ae thingy now with that last horizontal scale of 93.75% :D
21:17 <n54> :)
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21:48 <wrtlprnft> ok, I'm calling it a day now... I'll care about the missing characters another time :D
21:52 <wrtlprnft> or someone else can... I committed my stuff
21:54 <n54> cya :)
21:55 <wrtlprnft> won't get rid of me quite yet, but no more font madness :D
21:55 <n54> hehe ok :)
21:56 <n54> what's the time in canada now?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> uh, here it is 10pm
21:58 <n54> west coast?
21:58 <wrtlprnft> right in the centre
21:58 <wrtlprnft> manitoba :D
21:59 <n54> ah ok
22:10 <wrtlprnft> now you are :D cya
22:10 <wrtlprnft> #night
22:10 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
22:10 <n54> cya wrtlprnft :)
22:30  * Lucifer_arma just changed all the defaults for fonts and is testing, will probably commit.  :)
22:44 <Lucifer_arma> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=47246#47246
22:48 <n54> very nice, I see some of the flaws but still
22:50 <n54> easy on the eyes :)
22:54 <Lucifer_arma> it's a beautiful font
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> I've always liked this font, I must admit, and as a vector font it looks really nice.
22:55 <Lucifer_arma> and of course, wrtlprnft is doing a nice job on it.  :)  He did the last font revision, before 0.2.8 was released, and did nothing but make it better.
22:58 <n54> :)
22:59  * Lucifer_arma hopes someone does a cvs update without reading the thread.
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see the look on his face when he sees the new/old font.  :)
22:59 <n54> :)
22:59 <Lucifer_arma> "wtf?  No more truetype??!"
23:00 <n54> it's pure vector now or still based on truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> means, of course, we're ready to move the font into resources when we figure out how we'll do it.
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> truetype is vector
23:00 <n54> yeah but you said no more truetype?
23:00 <Lucifer_arma> that's the joke.  Because if you don't read the thread, you don't necessarily know there's a truetype version of the old font
23:01 <n54> oh... sorry guess I'm getting tired :)
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> heh.
23:01  * Lucifer_arma mumbles something about whooshing sounds
23:01 <n54> heh yeah it can whoosh a lot now
23:01 <Lucifer_arma> I've made it a goal of mine to get rid of the textures directory :)
23:01 <n54> I probably wouldn't even hear the sound ;)
23:01 <n54> yeah?
23:02 <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  It means having moviepacks turned into resources, of course, but it's something of a personal goal.
23:02 <n54> which one of htem? :)
23:02 <n54> aha the toplevel one - yeah I agree on that
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> sounds, too.  Probably after the semester's out I'll take some time before the next semester starts to try to knock out some of the little projects I've got going on
23:03 <n54> I don't know how much easy distribution is a part of the discussion but it would be nice if moviepacks could simply be a zip file each
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> one of the things I want to do is turn moviepacks into resources.  So it's finish the openAL implementation, turn moviepacks into resources.
23:03 <n54> including fonts
23:03 <Lucifer_arma> as it stands right now, everyone wants a resource to be distributed as a zip file, or an xml file, if that's all it is.  Everyone, that is, except for luke-jr__ 
23:04 <n54> :D
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> I think andi threw the last nail in the coffin of not using zip files when he pointed out the random access part of it.  :)
23:04 <n54> random access?
23:04 <Lucifer_arma> now he just needs to tell us he did that with GLTron, and everyone will say "Oh shit, we have to do it too!"
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you don't have to unzip the file to read files inside it.  You can read directly from the zip file.
23:05 <n54> yeah i know
23:05 <Lucifer_arma> one of the arguments against using zip files is that you'd have to unzip it after you download it.  But you don't have to, apparently.
23:05 <n54> well that's good then :)
23:05 <n54> very common not to
23:06 <n54> at least on windows
23:06 <n54> and every time I come across it I always find it a bleassing and neat :)
23:06 <Lucifer_arma> well, in posix-land we like our gzip, that's true.  And gzip only zips one file at a time, afaik.  Hence tarballs.
23:07 <n54> hmm yeah I dislike tarballs, always feels cludgy but 7zip works with linux too
23:08 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: no, the argument is not over resource distribution, but over resource content
23:09 <n54> ok well that's even better, everyone wants zip then :)
23:09 <luke-jr__> n54: tar+*zip work better than zip ever could, by design
23:09 <n54> might have been true 10 years ago imo ;)
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> see?  now we get to argue over what the argument is about.  :)
23:10 <n54> well at least it's not over zip :D
23:10 <luke-jr__> Lucifer_arma: ZIP does have that benefit over tar+*zip, but that doesn't apply to distribution
23:11 <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr__: give facts, not assertions, or shut the fuck up.  I'm really not in the mood for Luke's WOrld tonight.
23:12 <Lucifer_arma> not that it matters, I need to be studying anyway.  Test's tomorrow
23:13 <n54> best of luck
23:17 <n54> morning = time for bed, cya all :)
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23:33 <Lucifer_arma> #g 9*7
23:33 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 9 * 7 = 63
23:35 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln|9|
23:35 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:36 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(9)
23:36 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(9) = 2.19722458
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^5
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^5 = 1,073,741,824
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 64^(5/6)
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 64^(5 / 6) = 32
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 32*6
23:44 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 32 * 6 = 192
23:44 <Lucifer_arma> #g 16*5 + 192
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: (16 * 5) + 192 = 272
23:45 <Lucifer_arma> #g 272-16
23:45 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: 272 - 16 = 256
23:48 <guru3> #g ln(-9)
23:48 <armabot> guru3: ln(-9) = 2.19722458 + 3.14159265 i
23:48 <guru3> heh
23:48 <guru3> english exam in a short while :D
23:49 <Lucifer_arma> fun
23:49 -!- luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> damn, have to notice when I get 1/2(ln9 - ln1) that it's 1/2(ln9/1), which is ln(sqrt(9))
23:50 <Lucifer_arma> I thought I was missing something when I did that, heh.  :)
23:53 <Lucifer_arma> sec^2(theta) + 1 = tan(theta)?
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(e)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(e) = 1
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> :)
23:59 <Lucifer_arma> #g ln(1)
23:59 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: ln(1) = 0

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Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.

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