Log from 2008-02-02:
--- Day changed Sat Feb 02 2008
00:03 <flex> #rating |x|_flex
00:04 <armabot> flex: timed out
00:06 <luke-jr> flex: thx
00:08 <flex> :o
00:08 <flex> what i do
00:12 <luke-jr> not you
00:13 <luke-jr> #rating |x| flex
00:13 <armabot> luke-jr: timed out
00:13 <luke-jr> #rating |x| flex
00:13 <armabot> luke-jr: timed out
00:14 <flex> :o those time outs means server is not recording?
00:14 <flex> or just response related
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00:19 <luke-jr> flex: ratings is bugged
00:21 <luke-jr> restarted it
00:21 <luke-jr> #rating |x| flex
00:21 <armabot> luke-jr: |x|_flex is 739th with a rating of 1525-1578 (from 1549-1648)
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00:34 <flex> #rating luke-jr
00:35 <armabot> flex: luke-jr is 822nd with a rating of 1520-1562 (from 1522-1559)
00:35 <flex> haha :p
00:35 <luke-jr> flex: found a bug I think
00:35 <luke-jr> I missed a ⁑2 in one place
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00:36 <flex> urm Q: does the rating system stop recording when theres a bug
00:40 <luke-jr> yes ☺
00:40 <flex> aw that kinda sucks.. I kill ~|ds|~_judders just like 30minutes ago for a whole good 2matches and it wasn't recorded at all..
00:40 <flex> #rating ~|ds|~_judders
00:40 <armabot> flex: ~|ds|~_judders is 1st with a rating of 2081-2245 (from 3158-3319)
00:41 <flex> luke ugay!
00:41 <luke-jr> flex: doesn't matter now
00:41 <luke-jr> bug in algorithm means I'll be wiping the entire ratings database shortly
00:41 <luke-jr> = after I go shopping, and fix the bug
00:43 <flex> haha ouch
00:45 <luke-jr> on the bright side, hopefully it will be even more accurate with the fix
00:56 <pippijn> "allocaiton" is actually allocation
00:56 <pippijn> (side note)
00:56 <pippijn> good night all
00:56 <flex> good night :)
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03:05 <flex> luke-jr
03:06 -!- flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/savas] has quit ["bye"]
03:08 <luke-jr> fl
03:08 <luke-jr> e
03:08 <luke-jr> flex:
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03:15 <luke-jr> ratings reset!
03:15 <luke-jr> let's see how the real algo wokrs
03:17 <ct|kyle> .rating luke-jr
03:18 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
03:18 <luke-jr> ☺
03:18 <armabot> luke-jr: I don't know anything about 'luke-jr'!
03:19 <ct|kyle> does that mean there is no luke-jr armabot?
03:23 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
03:23 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 1st with a rating of 1150-1850
03:23 <luke-jr> there
03:23 <luke-jr> fixed
03:23 <luke-jr> and now the first RP begins!
03:24 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
03:24 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 37th with a rating of 1150-1850
03:24 <luke-jr> #aka player l
03:24 <armabot> luke-jr: ¿9672 player_l
03:24 <luke-jr> hm
03:38 <ct|kyle> #rating player_1
03:38 <armabot> ct|kyle: player_1 is 40th with a rating of 1191-1555 (from 1150-1850)
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05:08 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
05:08 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 25th with a rating of 1465-1562 (from 1150-1850)
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12:11 <pippijn> good morning
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13:18 <pippijn> how can I make armagetronad make less fps?
13:19 <pippijn> on windows it makes 57fps and takes 8% cpu
13:19 <pippijn> on linux it makes 600fps and takes 100% cpu
13:19 <epsy> pippijn, vsync
13:20 <pippijn> epsy: where?
13:22 <epsy> idk
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13:52 <zmanuel> pippijn: With nvidia drivers, set __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK to 1.
13:52 -!- zmanuel is now known as z-man
13:52 <pippijn> in user.cfg?
13:54 <pippijn> oh, environment
13:54 <pippijn> z-man: environment?
13:58 <pippijn> brb
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14:54 <K-Yo> any wiki admin here?
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15:26 <wrtlprnft> K-Yo: i'm a sysop…
15:27 <K-Yo> sysop?
15:28 <K-Yo> i was wondering about the ladle cafe page
15:28 <K-Yo> is there a way to make it impossible to change team positions unless both teams agree
15:29 <wrtlprnft> not without locking the page
15:29 <wrtlprnft> or installing some sort of plugin, which only guru3 can do
15:29 <K-Yo> ok
15:30 <K-Yo> will stay like that
15:30 <K-Yo> anyway the historic is saved right?
15:32 <wrtlprnft> yeah
15:32 <wrtlprnft> always is, including spam x_X
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15:56 <pippijn> hi z-man
15:56 <pippijn> hi Mixnetwork
15:56 <z-man> hi
15:56 <Mixnetwork> hey
15:56 <pippijn> Mixnetwork: how is your server?
15:56 <Mixnetwork> i installes version 3 server as windows version and run it local to test, but it crashes after a while
15:57 <z-man> in case nobody else gave the answer, no, on the system console.
15:57 <pippijn> z-man: ah
15:57 <pippijn> nobody gave the answer, indeed
15:57 <pippijn> z-man: of the client?
15:57 <Mixnetwork> now i am trying to install luzifers script on my server
15:57 <z-man> No, I mean, in bash or sh :)
15:57 <epsy> #lastseen allpez
15:57 <pippijn> so into the environment?
15:57 <z-man> yes.
15:57 <epsy> #lastseen applez
15:58 <armabot> epsy: timed out
15:58 <armabot> epsy: AppleZ has last been seen on ~"XzL.Clan The Server 9 hours 58 minutes ago.
15:58 <epsy> #lastseen aeon
15:58 <pippijn> I did that.. I still get 500-600fps
15:58 <armabot> epsy: aeon has last been seen on Flower Power Sumo Assault 5 hours 32 minutes ago.
15:58 <epsy> #lastseen |×|aeon
15:58 <armabot> epsy: Illegal mix of collations (latin1_general_ci,IMPLICIT) and (utf8_general_ci,COERCIBLE) for operation 'like'
15:58 <z-man> don't have an nvidia card then?
15:58 <epsy> #lastseen |x|aeon
15:58 <pippijn> I do
15:58 <z-man> hmm
15:58 <pippijn> pippijn@osiris ~ $ echo $__GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK
15:58 <pippijn> 1
15:58 <armabot> epsy: timed out
15:58 <epsy> hm
15:58 <pippijn> I even started X with that environment
15:59 <z-man> odd. do you have glxgears?
15:59 <pippijn> yes
15:59 <z-man> then try it :)
15:59 <pippijn> 49184 frames in 5.0 seconds = 9820.236 FPS
16:00 <z-man> Then something with that setting is not working, and I don't know what.
16:00 <z-man> For me, it suffices to run __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=1 glxgears"
16:00 <z-man> to make it limit to 60 fps.
16:01 <pippijn> well
16:01 <pippijn> pippijn@osiris ~ $ __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=1 glxgears
16:01 <pippijn> 45996 frames in 5.0 seconds = 9193.364 FPS
16:01 <pippijn> pippijn@osiris ~ $ glxgears
16:01 <pippijn> 48586 frames in 5.0 seconds = 9717.198 FPS
16:01 <pippijn> probably coincidence
16:01 <z-man> Maybe check your driver documentation then?
16:01 <pippijn> yes, it was coincidence
16:02 <pippijn> I don't find anything
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16:03 <z-man> I've got it in /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx-1.0.5336-r2/README.gz
16:03 <pippijn> hi luke-jr
16:03 <pippijn> pippijn@osiris ~ $ locate nvidia|grep READ
16:03 <pippijn> /proc/driver/nvidia/warnings/README
16:05 <Mixnetwork> you guys know a freeare irc prog?
16:05 <Mixnetwork> freeware
16:05 <pippijn> yes, many
16:05 <z-man> In fact, I don't know any non-freeware IRC client :)
16:05 <Mixnetwork> which one? should i use?
16:05 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
16:05 <Mixnetwork> MIrc is non freare
16:05 <pippijn> z-man: is mirc officially freeware?
16:06 <Mixnetwork> no
16:06 <Mixnetwork> shareware
16:06 <pippijn> okay
16:06 <Mixnetwork> evaluation
16:06 <z-man> But the free version is feature complete, right?
16:06 <Mixnetwork> 30 days
16:06 <z-man> Ah, that has changed since I last used it, then.
16:06 <pippijn> z-man: it knows the irc protocol I assume :)
16:06 <z-man> haha
16:06 <pippijn> z-man: you used it 10 years ago?
16:06 <Mixnetwork> any suggestion?
16:06 <pippijn> Mixnetwork: for windows?
16:07 <z-man> Could be.
16:07 <Mixnetwork> yepp
16:07 <pippijn> I liked bersirc
16:07 <pippijn> but didn't use it for long
16:07 <Mixnetwork> lol
16:07 <Mixnetwork> wha not?
16:07 <Mixnetwork> why
16:07 <pippijn> I use irssi
16:07 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/x.png
16:08 <pippijn> bersirc doesn't seem to be under development anymore
16:08 <cusco> yea.. a system with no irssi is no good! thats why people don't like windows!
16:08 <cusco> what else
16:08 <pippijn> I use irssi on windows
16:08 <pippijn> in cygwin
16:09 <cusco> o.O
16:09 <pippijn> actually there is a standalone irssi with cygwin integrated
16:09 <cusco> pippijn: is your copy of windows lega?
16:09 <pippijn> yes
16:09 <cusco> why bother with mirc then? :p
16:09 <pippijn> I don't use mirc
16:09 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-224-240.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []
16:09 <cusco> precisely
16:09 <pippijn> http://irssi.org/files/irssi-win32-0.8.12.exe
16:10 <pippijn> Mixnetwork: that is a very good irc client
16:10 <cusco> noo thats evil
16:10 <Mixnetwork> have it already ;)
16:10 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/x.png
16:10 <pippijn> what WM is this, do you guess?
16:11 <cusco> dunno
16:11 <Mixnetwork> ? commandbox?
16:11 <cusco> some lightweight bollocks :p
16:11 <pippijn> fvwm :)
16:11 <pippijn> fvwm is probably the best wm out there
16:11 <cusco> that is part of xfcw
16:11 <cusco> xfce
16:12 <cusco> pippijn: why?
16:12 <pippijn> ?
16:12 <pippijn> cusco: it's rock solid, works correctly and as one would expect and is fully configurable
16:12 <pippijn> I also like ion3
16:12 <cusco> don't all the others have the same caracteristics?
16:13 <pippijn> no
16:13 <cusco> yes ion3 is different from all others...
16:13 <pippijn> ion3 has quirks
16:13 <pippijn> xfce has quirks
16:13 <cusco> what quirks?
16:13 <pippijn> xfce4 sometimes doesn't update window activity on desktop switches
16:14 <cusco> hmm.. ok ...
16:14 <pippijn> when your mouse suddnenly is over a certain window, you either have to click it or move out and back in to get focus
16:14 <cusco> ok
16:14 <pippijn> ion3 is great.. I will surely switch back to it someday
16:14 <pippijn> and then switch back to fvwm
16:14 <pippijn> and back to ion3 again, and so on :-)
16:14 <pippijn> I like them both
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16:15 <Mixnetwork_> ah
16:15 <cusco> I would be using it if I needed to spare resoucres.. but as I have a high-capable machine
16:15 <Mixnetwork_> have XChat
16:15 <cusco> I can afford to use compiz/beryl all the time
16:15 <Mixnetwork_> works fine
16:15 <pippijn> ah, xchat is good, too
16:15 <cusco> it (ion3)
16:15 <pippijn> cusco: I could, too, but I need a wm that maximises my productivity
16:15 <pippijn> and ion3 does that
16:16 <pippijn> fvwm almost does it
16:16 <pippijn> for some things, fvwm works better
16:16 <pippijn> ion3 is great for coding
16:16 <pippijn> ion3 takes care of window positions and sizes
16:16 <cusco> do you know what I got used in compiz? changing the cube... I used very little the virtual desktops, now I use them all the time
16:16 <pippijn> that's good and bad
16:16 <cusco> I know what ion3 does
16:17 <cusco> it always arranjes your desktop as you wanted (even if you didn't know it then)
16:17 <K-Yo> #ss (clone)
16:17 <K-Yo> anyone?
16:18 <armabot> K-Yo: AoS capture the flag (clone): hulett_lagoon (4): cT¤K-Yo (2); bobin_red_canyon (3): CT׶4 (1), box noob (0)
16:18 <pippijn> ion3 has gone out of debian lenny
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16:21 <cusco> pippijn: I did not know ... looking at http://packages.debian.org/ion3 shows that new releases are non-free
16:25 <Mixnetwork_> argh, i am getting nuts for this map changing, why is that so comlicated
16:25 <pippijn> weird
16:25 <pippijn> does formula 1 change maps?
16:26 <Mixnetwork_> it should, at the moment disabled because script i have takes 97% resources
16:26 <pippijn> ah
16:26 <Mixnetwork_> i have 17 maps , but i don't know how to change the maps
16:27 <pippijn> okay
16:27 <pippijn> so what about 0.3.0?
16:27 <Mixnetwork_> the script i have works, but my sever is at his limit if it runds
16:27 <Mixnetwork_> runs
16:28 <pippijn> your smart php friend should be able to write you a ladderlog script within 15 minutes
16:28 <Mixnetwork_> well i tried o.3.o on my local windows PC that crashes always after a while
16:28 <pippijn> (I did it in 5)
16:28 <pippijn> windows + server = death
16:28 <Mixnetwork_> so I am scared installing it on my ubuntu
16:28 <pippijn> I am using 0.3.0 and it runs fine
16:28 <pippijn> uptime 4 days now
16:29 <Mixnetwork_> on ubuntu?
16:29 <pippijn> debian
16:29 <Mixnetwork_> oh ok
16:29 <pippijn> that'S almost the same
16:29 <Mixnetwork_> well i could give it a try ;)
16:29 <Mixnetwork_> could you help me installing it?
16:30 <Mixnetwork_> I already uploaded the armagetronad-0.3.0.src.tar.gz
16:30 <StickyNoob> ubuntu=debian just using old packages
16:30 <Mixnetwork_> i know
16:31 <StickyNoob> ubuntu is mostly just about marketing
16:31 <StickyNoob> which is important
16:31 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: I can help you
16:31 <Mixnetwork_> fien
16:31 <Mixnetwork_> fine
16:32 <Mixnetwork_> you hav ICQ or MSN?
16:32 <Mixnetwork_> perhapsbetter
16:33 <StickyNoob> just do it in pm/private room
16:33 <pippijn> well
16:34 <pippijn> I think it's fine in here
16:34 <pippijn> so other people can help, too
16:34 <Mixnetwork_> ok
16:34 <Mixnetwork_> must I stop server first?
16:34 <pippijn> no
16:35 <Mixnetwork_> ok
16:35 <pippijn> there are two players on it by the way
16:35 <Mixnetwork_> well file is uploaded
16:35 <pippijn> unpack it
16:35 <Mixnetwork_> could you give me the command
16:35 <pippijn> tar zxpf armagetronad-0.3.0.src.tar.gz
16:36 <Mixnetwork_> ok
16:37 <StickyNoob> done?
16:37 <Mixnetwork_> yepp
16:38 <pippijn> cd armagetronad-0.3.0
16:38 <pippijn> ./configure --disable-glout
16:38 <Mixnetwork_> done
16:39 <StickyNoob> any errors?
16:39 <pippijn> make
16:39 <Mixnetwork_> no errors
16:41 <pippijn> did you do make?
16:41 <Mixnetwork_> finished now
16:41 <Mixnetwork_> yes
16:42 <pippijn> sudo make install
16:42 <Mixnetwork_> done
16:42 <pippijn> okay..
16:42 <pippijn> on what server did you install it?
16:42 <Mixnetwork_> ??
16:42 <pippijn> spacezone 1-4?
16:42 <Mixnetwork_> all
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16:43 <pippijn> ah okay
16:43 <Mixnetwork_> must i restart the servers ?
16:43 <pippijn> now let'S config the rotation
16:43 <Mixnetwork_> ok
16:44 <pippijn> don't restart the servers.. formula 1 has 5 players
16:44 <Mixnetwork_> lol
16:44 <Mixnetwork_> i have already 17 configs
16:45 <StickyNoob> heh
16:45 <pippijn> okay, so map rotation happens through config rotation?
16:45 <Mixnetwork_> for the maps
16:45 <Mixnetwork_> like in description
16:45 <Mixnetwork_> every mao has his own setting yes
16:45 <Mixnetwork_> map
16:45 <pippijn> okay
16:46 <pippijn> you could set the settings inside the map, too.. but you probably know that
16:46 <pippijn> either way
16:46 <pippijn> you need to set MAP_FILE to the initial map
16:46 <Mixnetwork_> hmm how you mean
16:46 <pippijn> set MAP_FILE to the map you want to load first
16:47 <Mixnetwork_> ok like this : MAP_FILE space_6/polygon/regular/space_6-1001.0.1.aamap.xml (http://mixnetwork.de/resource/automatic/space_6/polygon/regular/space_6-1001.0.1.aamap.xml)
16:47 <pippijn> like that, yes
16:47 <Mixnetwork_> i have
16:47 <pippijn> good
16:47 <pippijn> ROTATION_TYPE 2
16:47 <Mixnetwork_> have also
16:48 <pippijn> CONFIG_ROTATION conf1.cfg;conf2.cfg;confg3.cfg;
16:48 <Mixnetwork_> CONFIG_ROTATION 1.cfg;2.cfg;3.cfg;4.cfg;5.cfg;6.cfg;7.cfg;8.cfg;9.cfg;10.cfg;11.cfg;12.cfg;13.cfg;14.cfg;15.cfg;16.cfg;17.cfg;
16:48 <pippijn> yes, like that
16:48 <Mixnetwork_> have also
16:48 <pippijn> good
16:48 <pippijn> then you can restart the servers
16:48 <pippijn> I will announce it first
16:48 <Mixnetwork_> this not needed? MAP_ROTATION
16:48 <pippijn> not if your configs set MAP_FILE
16:49 <pippijn> do they?
16:49 <Mixnetwork_> hmm let me take a look
16:50 <Mixnetwork_> this is in config :
16:50 <Mixnetwork_> MAP_FILE space_6/polygon/regular/space_6-1003.0.1.aamap.xml
16:50 <pippijn> then you need no MAP_ROTATION
16:50 <Mixnetwork_> ok
16:53 <pippijn> how do servers get score?
16:59 <Mixnetwork_> which one
16:59 <pippijn> all
16:59 <pippijn> what are the criteria for getting score?
16:59 <Mixnetwork_> what you mean by get score
17:00 <Mixnetwork_> different
17:00 <pippijn> on the master server, servers are listed by score
17:00 <Mixnetwork_> each server has it own scores#
17:01 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: did you restart?
17:01 <Mixnetwork_> i am on formula 1 now testing
17:01 <Mixnetwork_> yes
17:06 -!- Person [n=Stewie-a@cpe-66-27-71-55.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
17:06 -!- Person is now known as angryoverlord
17:06 -!- angryoverlord is now known as AngryOverlord
17:07 <AngryOverlord> hmmm
17:07 <AngryOverlord> well this sucks...
17:08 <AngryOverlord> stupid Stewie-arma... using my name...
17:08 <AngryOverlord> woah
17:09 <pippijn> kill him
17:12 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-66-27-71-55.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:12 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:13 -!- AngryOverlord is now known as Stewie-arma
17:13 <Mixnetwork_> lets see if they now start
17:16 <Mixnetwork_> strange only 2 server start again
17:16 <pippijn> what do the others say?
17:17 <Mixnetwork_> they all start over 1 script have no output
17:17 <pippijn> bad
17:17 <pippijn> then you can't know what's wrong
17:17 <Mixnetwork_> wait hav an idea
17:18 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-214-251.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #armagetron
17:20 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
17:21 <Mixnetwork_> sgit must eat now, be back in 15 minutes
17:21 <Mixnetwork_> now they run
17:22 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit]
17:23 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
17:39 <Mixnetwork_> hmmm
17:40 <pippijn> ?
17:41 <flex> wrtlprnft here?
17:41 -!- Goodygumdrops [n=Goodygum@h107.144.88.75.ip.alltel.net] has joined #armagetron
17:47 <pippijn> who is currently working on this merging?
17:48 <pippijn> z-man, wrtlprnft?
17:48 <z-man> which merging?
17:48 <pippijn> branch merging
17:48 <guru3> oh yeah, i've been meaning to ask
17:48 <guru3> who's pippijn ?
17:48 <z-man> that's usually my job.
17:48 <pippijn> guru3: google?
17:48 <pippijn> http://www.google.com/search?q=pippijn
17:49 <z-man> Look ito AUTHORS on the trunk?
17:49 <guru3> retaurant pippijn ?
17:49 <flex> hjahaha
17:49 <pippijn> not the first hit ;-)
17:49 <pippijn> second, though
17:49 <pippijn> and the nabble one
17:49 <guru3> map rotation optimization
17:49 <pippijn> and the one after that
17:49 <pippijn> and inspircd
17:50 <flex> unixcorps?
17:50 <pippijn> yes
17:50 <guru3> "A new and distinct cultivar of Kalanchoe plant named Pippijn is provided. This new cultivar is characterized by its bright red flowers, dark green foliage, compact growth habit and excellent basal branching."
17:50 <guru3> you discovered a plant?
17:50 <guru3> (that's #3)
17:50 <pippijn> :-D
17:50 <pippijn> I'm not #3 either
17:50 <guru3> well, i guess the thing is
17:50 <flex> he's #2 you R-tard
17:50 <guru3> i totally missed the map optimization thing
17:52 <guru3> all i've noticed is you talking lately
17:52 <guru3> and :. had no clue as to who you were -_-
17:52 <guru3> whoops
17:52 <Mixnetwork_> pippijn
17:52 <Mixnetwork_> ?
17:52 <pippijn> yes, Mixnetwork_
17:52 <Mixnetwork_> well other server won't start
17:52 <pippijn> get their output
17:52 <Mixnetwork_> nothing to see
17:52 <Mixnetwork_> i started manually
17:53 <Mixnetwork_> says started but not there
17:55 <pippijn> ask guru3.. his name sounds promising
17:55 <guru3> i know nothing
17:56 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: rafb.net/paste
17:58 <Mixnetwork_> http://rafb.net/p/3vPC0095.html
18:04 <pippijn> [0] Closing socket bound to *.*.*.*:4535
18:05 <Mixnetwork_> ?
18:06 <pippijn> are you trying to start them on the same machine?
18:06 <Mixnetwork_> yes they all run on same machine
18:06 <pippijn> with the same port?
18:06 <Mixnetwork_> of corse not
18:07 <pippijn> good
18:07 <Mixnetwork_> hast it perhaps to do with this
18:07 <Mixnetwork_> /usr/local/share/games/armagetronad-dedicated/www-root
18:07 <Mixnetwork_> 1201972303 shttpd_open_port: bind(4550): Address already in use
18:07 <pippijn> doesn't matter
18:07 <Mixnetwork_> ok
18:08 <Mixnetwork_> well they refuse to utn strating log is normal and say they are running but they are not running
18:09 <Mixnetwork_> send you a new log
18:10 <Mixnetwork_> and server 3 ist most visited:( strange that server one runs?
18:11 <Mixnetwork_> runs also not , mistake
18:12 <Mixnetwork_> yes it runs again mistake :)
18:12 <pippijn> ...
18:12 <pippijn> I don't know what's happening on your side
18:13 <pippijn> z-man: what needs to get merged?
18:17 <Mixnetwork_> hmmm
18:17 <Mixnetwork_> can't find the problem
18:18 <Mixnetwork_> strange thing is server 1 and 6 start 2,3,4 not
18:19 <pippijn> dinner time
18:19 <pippijn> brb
18:21 <Mixnetwork_> bon appetit
18:21 <Mixnetwork_> :D
18:39 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:57 <z-man> pippijn: all changes from branch 0.2.8 need to be merged into the trunk.
18:57 <pippijn> is there a list?
18:58 <z-man> The svn log of 0.2.8 :)
18:58 <z-man> We do the merging continuously, about once every week.
18:58 <pippijn> so there have not been any intermediate merges?
18:58 <z-man> So usually, the trunk is pretty up to date with the changes from 0.2.8.
18:58 <z-man> no, lots of intermediate merges.
18:58 <pippijn> I see
18:59 <pippijn> okay
18:59 <z-man> I rather have a small bomb explode into my face every week than a big one every several years.
18:59 <pippijn> so what did you mean with "merge hell"?
19:00 <z-man> Conflicts. You are bound to get them for merging two branches with life in them.
19:00 <Mixnetwork_> hi pippijn bacj again?
19:00 <Mixnetwork_> back
19:00 <pippijn> yes, Mixnetwork_
19:00 <Mixnetwork_> well its very strange, if i start the sever for each sever manual they rum but not together
19:01 <z-man> Most conflicts are trivial, but nevertheless, they require manual intervention.
19:01 <pippijn> yes
19:03 <Mixnetwork_> any idea?
19:04 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: sometihng is wrong with your script
19:04 <Mixnetwork_> it worked before version 3
19:06 <Mixnetwork_> perhaps the starting is too fast for all servers together
19:07 <pippijn> I don't know..
19:08 <Mixnetwork_> if i deactivate the starting prcedure for all severs in the script and let just one start over it, it works if i hava all activated only 2 start
19:10 <pippijn> z-man: what is keeping you from starting a cleanup project?
19:10 <z-man> That merging the changes that are still happening in 0.2.8 back to the trunk will become impossibe or at least very difficult.
19:11 <pippijn> when will it be possible?
19:11 <z-man> After 0.2.8.3 is out.
19:11 <z-man> Or in the late beta phase.
19:11 <pippijn> why?
19:11 <z-man> Because then, I'm going to declare the 0.2.8 branch dead :)
19:12 <pippijn> ah, what will live when you do so?
19:12 <pippijn> just trunk?
19:12 <z-man> Yes.
19:12 <pippijn> great
19:12 <z-man> Cleanups that don't affect the merging can of course start earlier.
19:13 <z-man> Excluded are only things like "let's throw out all those legacy functions from tString"
19:13 <z-man> or "let's change the configuration system so you don't have to first declare a global variable, then the config item for it"
19:14 <z-man> Or general things that affect large chunks of code at once, such as changing our indentation policy.
19:14 <pippijn> okay
19:14 <pippijn> z-man: 1+1 => 1 + 1?
19:15 <z-man> Yeah, those kinds of things :)
19:15 <pippijn> right
19:15 <z-man> I ran into big trouble with astyle and that lately.
19:15 <pippijn> that excludes just about everything I wanted to do
19:15 <pippijn> it even describes what I was planning pretty well
19:15 <z-man> heh :)
19:16 <pippijn> god I hate c#
19:16 <pippijn> brb
19:16 <z-man> Yeah, that's the kind of things an external developer with too much time on his hands can do.
19:18 <Mixnetwork_> pippijn?
19:19 <pippijn> z-man: actually I'm an external developer who wants to work on the code but can't stand ugly code
19:19 <Mixnetwork_> Players from IP 84.181.119.140 are banned for -2147483648 minutes. Reason: None given. ?????
19:19 <pippijn> cool
19:19 <z-man> What did you do?
19:19 <Mixnetwork_> start the server
19:19 <Mixnetwork_> manually
19:19 <z-man> Before that. Bans don't happen out of thin air.
19:20 <Mixnetwork_> just tried to start over script
19:20 <pippijn> brb again
19:20 <z-man> Still, the ban must have come from somewhere.
19:20 <Mixnetwork_> i dont know
19:21 <Mixnetwork_> thats why its strange
19:21 <Mixnetwork_> server kills itself immediately
19:21 <z-man> pippijn: beauty lies in the eye of the beholder ;) When I started, (1+1) looked good to me, as did if (bla) blubb;
19:21 <luke-jr> pippijn: what name do you play as?
19:21 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
19:22 <pippijn> luke-jr: guess
19:22 <luke-jr> #rating pippijn
19:22 <z-man> njippip
19:22 <armabot> luke-jr: pippijn is 321st with a rating of 1150-1850
19:24 <Mixnetwork_> well i have a serious problem now pippijn? any idea? before installing version 3 all servers started and i did not changes anything by just installing version 3
19:24 <luke-jr> pippijn: that's the default ☺
19:24 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: install 0.2.8
19:24 <Mixnetwork_> lol
19:24 <pippijn> really..
19:24 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: I can't help you if you provide me with near-to-no information
19:25 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
19:25 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 84th with a rating of 1465-1562 (from 1150-1850)
19:25 <Mixnetwork_> what information you need? i can send you the script
19:25 <pippijn> luke-jr: I don't play much and I don't play well
19:25 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: yes, sending me the script could help
19:27 <Mixnetwork_> URL: http://rafb.net/p/Vf3z7p56.html
19:27 <pippijn> z-man: when you started, did this look good:
19:27 <pippijn> eSomeClassName(int a,int b,int c):
19:27 <pippijn> mymember(a),memtwo(b),mem(c){}
19:28 * pippijn goes find the arma example
19:29 <pippijn> eMenuItemPassword(uMenu *M,tString &c)
19:29 <pippijn> uMenuItemString(M,"$login_password_title","$login_password_help",c){}
19:29 <luke-jr> pippijn: you haven't played at all since I reset the ratings ;)
19:30 <pippijn> luke-jr: possibly
19:30 <z-man> Yeah :) I suppose I didn't have too much horizontal screen space back then.
19:31 <pippijn> heh..
19:32 <pippijn> oh actually the : is missing at the end of the first line in my paste
19:32 <pippijn> z-man: I prefer the : on the next line
19:32 <pippijn> makes human parsing less ambiguous
19:33 <z-man> Yes, and it also makes the automatic indentation work better.
19:33 <pippijn> wow.. I had forgot how ugly php is
19:33 <pippijn> automatic indentation..
19:33 <pippijn> do you use vim?
19:33 <z-man> emacs for editing.
19:33 <pippijn> ah
19:33 <z-man> and we were using astyle to automatically process our code files.
19:33 <pippijn> what features do you use?
19:34 <pippijn> from emacs
19:34 <pippijn> when coding C++
19:34 <z-man> Oh, don't ask me. Basically what the C/C++ mode provides.
19:34 <pippijn> which is..?
19:34 -!- vinavil [n=vinavil@85-18-66-26.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #armagetron
19:34 <z-man> Press tab anywhere on the line, and it gets indented to what emacs things is best.
19:34 <pippijn> ah
19:34 <z-man> I adapted the settings to our preferences, which is mostly that one indent == 4 spaces
19:35 <pippijn> oh, I see
19:35 <z-man> let me check my .emacsrc
19:36 <pippijn> emacs indents braces pretty much the way I like it
19:36 <pippijn> by default
19:36 <pippijn> if (moo)
19:36 <pippijn> {
19:36 <pippijn> moocow;
19:36 <pippijn> }
19:36 <z-man> (c-offsets-alist (quote ((inline-open . 0) (func-decl-cont . 0) (member-init-intro . 0) (mem
19:36 <z-man> ber-init-cont . 0) (statement-cont . 0))))
19:37 <pippijn> right
19:37 <z-man> and tabwidth 4, that's the setup.
19:37 <z-man> I like my { on the level of the if.
19:37 <z-man> if (x)
19:37 <z-man> {
19:37 <z-man> y();
19:37 <z-man> }
19:38 <z-man> I don't mind terriby, as long as the { is on the same level as the }
19:38 <z-man> which excludes
19:38 <z-man> if(x){
19:38 <z-man> y();
19:38 <z-man> }
19:38 <z-man> bah.
19:38 <pippijn> hmm
19:38 <pippijn> ePlayer.cpp, very first function
19:38 <pippijn> you do like it for functions?
19:38 <z-man> Doesn't cout!
19:39 <z-man> That's from the past :)
19:39 <pippijn> ah, okay
19:39 <z-man> You're looking at a 8 year cross section of coding habits there :)
19:39 <pippijn> PasswordStorage(): save(false){};
19:39 <z-man> For trivial things, I still deem that OK.
19:39 <pippijn> habits of inserting semicolons where useless and ambiguity-introducing?
19:39 <z-man> oh, shut up :)
19:40 <pippijn> ;-)
19:40 <pippijn> those need to go someday
19:40 <pippijn> hopefully when 0.2.8 is dead
19:40 <z-man> yeah, gcc 4.3 is complaining about things like that already.
19:40 <pippijn> really?
19:40 <pippijn> never seen that
19:40 <z-man> Yeah, in other contexts.
19:40 <z-man> void f()
19:40 <z-man> P
19:40 <z-man> {
19:40 <z-man> };
19:41 <pippijn> ah
19:41 <z-man> the P was a typo :) gcc 4.3 will complain about the semicolon.
19:41 <pippijn> 4.2 should, too
19:41 <pippijn> 4.3 didn't change that policy
19:41 <pippijn> I read the release notes for 4.3 and it didn't mention that
19:42 <z-man> Right you are.
19:42 <pippijn> it certainly makes sense not to put a semicolon there
19:42 <pippijn> however, I don't agree with all strictness
19:42 <pippijn> enum myenum
19:42 <pippijn> {
19:42 <pippijn> one,
19:42 <pippijn> two,
19:42 <pippijn> };
19:43 <pippijn> it complains about comma at the end of enumerator list
19:43 <Mixnetwork_> got it pippijn?
19:43 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: yes, I don't see any problems with it, but you could try inserting a sleep(1) after 'foreach($homedirs as $currentdir){'
19:44 <pippijn> z-man: it's so much better to have the comma there..
19:44 -!- tramshed [i=tramshed@im.catapultingfeces.com] has joined #armagetron
19:44 <pippijn> also with arrays
19:44 <pippijn> but with arrays, if they are 0-terminated, I don't want the comma there
19:44 <pippijn> because then the 0 does it
19:45 <pippijn> with enums, I tend to insert a MYENUM_COUNT or something at the end
19:45 <pippijn> in perl arrays and hashes, I always put a comma at the end
19:45 <z-man> Yeah, that's quite useful at times.
19:45 <pippijn> it makes future editing easier and less error-prone
19:46 <pippijn> you just add something, add your comma and you're done
19:46 <z-man> One line changed instead of two.
19:46 <pippijn> it takes up to 20 seconds of my time if I forget to add the comma to the previously last item
19:46 <pippijn> that too
19:47 <pippijn> first second: read "syntax error"
19:47 <pippijn> second to fifth second: be irritated
19:47 <pippijn> sixth second: switch to editing window
19:47 <pippijn> seventh to tenth second: find location
19:48 <pippijn> eleventh to 13th second: edit it
19:48 <pippijn> 14: save
19:48 <pippijn> 15: switch back to compiling window
19:48 <Mixnetwork_> it must be this
19:48 <Mixnetwork_> /usr/local/share/games/armagetronad-dedicated/www-root
19:48 <Mixnetwork_> 1201977895 shttpd_open_port: bind(4550): Address already in use
19:48 <pippijn> 16: compile again
19:48 <pippijn> Mixnetwork_: unlikely, as that is just the built in http server
19:48 <pippijn> you could try disabling it, though
19:50 <pippijn> oh by the way, z-man, how do you write template code?
19:50 <pippijn> how do you format it?
19:50 <pippijn> I didn't include that with my examples
19:51 <z-man> which examples?
19:51 <pippijn> formatting examples
19:51 -!- vinavil [n=vinavil@85-18-66-26.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #armagetron []
19:51 <z-man> Did I miss htem?
19:51 <pippijn> probably
19:51 <Mixnetwork_> thats the problem
19:51 <z-man> Nowadays, I like to put the template<> statement on one line,
19:52 <pippijn> z-man: I assume you always talk about nowadays
19:52 <z-man> and on the next line follows the rest with the usual formatting rules.
19:53 <z-man> I also allow some extra line breaks for extra long statements.
19:53 <pippijn> yes..
19:53 <z-man> Just like I split function arguments on several lines if they get too many.
19:53 <pippijn> I don't like extra line breaks but sometimes they really are necessary
19:54 <pippijn> let me find you the ugliest code I have ever written
19:54 <pippijn> (in C++)
19:54 <z-man> It depends on how well the editor handles overlong lines.
19:54 <pippijn> not really
19:54 <pippijn> no editor does it right
19:54 <z-man> Yes :)
19:54 <pippijn> you can't do it right
19:54 <z-man> But there are several levels of wrong.
19:54 <pippijn> yes
19:55 <Mixnetwork_> Pippijn?
19:56 <Mixnetwork_> problem solved, all server are running
19:56 <pippijn> how?
19:56 <z-man> cool
19:56 <Mixnetwork_> you must set WEB_USE_INTERNAL 0
19:57 <Mixnetwork_> with multiple server
19:57 <pippijn> okay
19:57 <pippijn> z-man: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/fd0af37ee67456936d43f92073518d7d.txt
19:57 <Mixnetwork_> no i must check if map change workes
19:59 <pippijn> z-man: http://pip.one09.net/files/up/traits this is also quite ugly
20:00 <z-man> yeah, that's barely readable. The first one, I mean.
20:00 <pippijn> it's not possible to improve its readability, though
20:00 <z-man> The second one isn't so bad, I think, because the type_ifs actually resemble code if()s
20:01 <pippijn> yes
20:01 <z-man> yes, a lot. I'd put the block ending with ::create on one line; the ::create is the important bit of it, and by placing it at the end of the line, the eye is drawn there.
20:02 <z-man> and I don't think putting the return type on a separate line helps :)
20:02 <pippijn> I always do that
20:02 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:02 <pippijn> except for functions declared inside classes
20:03 <pippijn> but I tend to minimise function declarations inside classes
20:03 <z-man> Yeah, really only functions that need to be there should be there.
20:04 <pippijn> mostly just getters and setters (though I tend to reduce their usage as well) and empty constructors that just set variables.. and empty destructors
20:05 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
20:05 <pippijn> my factory code is generic but ugly as hell
20:06 <pippijn> it's one part of my history I am not proud of
20:06 <z-man> Those two go hand in hand.
20:06 <pippijn> you see.. this placeholder code you saw gets optimised away, usually
20:06 <pippijn> unless you reference the variable
20:07 <pippijn> but why would you reference it?
20:07 <pippijn> it's just there..
20:07 <z-man> Just to generate the right code somewhere.
20:07 <pippijn> exactly
20:08 <pippijn> so how do you sensibly reference it in a way that no compiler will optimise it away?
20:08 <pippijn> even the very smartest compiler?
20:08 <K-Yo> does anyone here would like a little math riddle to relax? :D
20:08 <z-man> K-Yo: no homework help :)
20:08 <K-Yo> what homework?
20:08 <K-Yo> :'(
20:09 <z-man> Disguising math homework as interesting riddles is frowned upon :)
20:09 <z-man> If it's a real riddle, go ahead :)
20:09 <K-Yo> it's not math but computer science homework :p
20:09 <z-man> haha
20:09 <K-Yo> i don't need help in math ><
20:09 <K-Yo> i tis a real one
20:09 <K-Yo> ur free not to answer
20:09 <pippijn> z-man: do you have a naming scheme for private member variables?
20:10 <K-Yo> actually it is a half one
20:10 <K-Yo> anyway
20:10 <pippijn> glibcxx uses _M_varname
20:10 <K-Yo> you are facing an infinite wall
20:10 <K-Yo> (that is scary)
20:10 <K-Yo> and you know there is a door somewhere
20:10 <K-Yo> but you don't know where
20:10 <z-man> Underscores at the beginning are not such a good idea, they may be reserved internal names.
20:10 <pippijn> K-Yo: and stupid.. just set WALL_LENGTH to 800 or so ;-)
20:10 <K-Yo> XD
20:10 <pippijn> z-man: not inside classes
20:11 <K-Yo> your biggest wish right now is to get to the other side
20:11 <pippijn> and you can probably assume _M_ is not used in any internal name
20:11 <K-Yo> to find ...
20:11 <K-Yo> a computer with armagetron installed on it
20:11 <z-man> climb over the wall?
20:11 <K-Yo> what is the best way to find it?
20:11 <K-Yo> no, it is specified that the wall is very very slidy
20:11 <K-Yo> and you forgot your flying machine
20:11 <z-man> jump over the wall?
20:12 <z-man> dig a hole?
20:12 <K-Yo> *
20:12 <pippijn> go back and get your flying machine
20:12 <K-Yo> ah not bad
20:12 <z-man> make your teammate crash into the wall?
20:12 <K-Yo> iaaah
20:12 <pippijn> :-D
20:12 <K-Yo> no it can't work
20:12 <K-Yo> you flying machine is on the otherside, so is everything that could help you to go through
20:12 <z-man> Ok, here's what you do:
20:13 <z-man> pick a number x, x > 1.
20:13 <K-Yo> ah
20:13 <z-man> then you go left, distance x.
20:13 <z-man> then you go right, distance x^2
20:13 <z-man> then left again, distance x^3
20:13 <K-Yo> eeer
20:13 <K-Yo> i first thought about smthing like that
20:13 <z-man> the problem is that you don't know whether the door is to your left or to your right.
20:14 <pippijn> z-man: distance is total distance?
20:14 <K-Yo> (not with the ^but 2x, 3x etc)
20:14 <z-man> otherwise, just going there would find it eventually.
20:14 <z-man> pippijn: doesn't matter too much, but I was thinking about the one-step distance.
20:14 <z-man> K-Yo: that would work, too.
20:14 <z-man> But if you really don't know how far away the door is, increasing the step size exponentially should work best.
20:15 <K-Yo> whaat bothers me is that i have to find my way on O(d), d being the distance between my start and the door
20:15 <K-Yo> you don't know indeed
20:15 <K-Yo> but if the dor is at the distance x/10000 to my right and i start left
20:15 <z-man> My suggested method does that.
20:15 <pippijn> uhm
20:15 <pippijn> yes
20:15 <z-man> Yours only is O(d^2).
20:16 <z-man> a, you have to understand O() notation :)
20:16 <K-Yo> i learned that ;)
20:16 <z-man> it only needs to be valid for large values of d.
20:16 <K-Yo> ah
20:16 <pippijn> K-Yo: you know that O(2n) == O(n), then?
20:16 <K-Yo> when goes to infinity?
20:16 <z-man> right.
20:16 <K-Yo> yes
20:16 <pippijn> and
20:16 <pippijn> O(20000000000n) == O(n)
20:17 <K-Yo> alright
20:17 <K-Yo> T.T
20:17 * K-Yo is a noob
20:17 <K-Yo> i'm not used to it yet still :P
20:17 <z-man> Anyway, member varialbes. Lately, I've been trying to establish "variableName_"
20:17 <pippijn> the O(2n) is only maximally twice as fast as O(1n)
20:17 <z-man> not sticking to it myself too much, really. Unfortunately.
20:18 <z-man> Underscores at the end are always OK, and just one underscore is not too intrusive or ugly.
20:18 <K-Yo> ttwice?
20:18 <K-Yo> not half?
20:18 <K-Yo> ah yes
20:18 <pippijn> oops
20:18 <K-Yo> sorry
20:18 <pippijn> twice as slow
20:18 <pippijn> :-)
20:19 <K-Yo> ;)
20:19 <pippijn> takes twice as much time
20:19 <pippijn> but only twice
20:19 <K-Yo> thank pippijn and z-man;)
20:19 <pippijn> and it always does that
20:19 <K-Yo> but twice as much time is not a problem?
20:19 <pippijn> but the O(n^2) algorithm is loooads slower than O(n)
20:19 <K-Yo> n as much time would have been a problem right?
20:19 <K-Yo> that is weird
20:19 <pippijn> when you look at a graph of a O(2n) vs. O(n) algorithm
20:20 <epsy> the admin-silence bug still exists?
20:20 <pippijn> you will see that they have a certain angle between them
20:20 <K-Yo> yes
20:20 <pippijn> but they have the same angle after one million n
20:20 <K-Yo> ok
20:20 <pippijn> O(n^2) after one million will be way up in heaven whereas the O(n) algorithm is nearly invisible
20:20 <pippijn> looks like it is at the x-axis
20:21 <pippijn> do you have a pdf viewer?
20:21 <K-Yo> ya
20:21 <pippijn> okay
20:22 <K-Yo> we're counting that kind of stuff but it seems useless to me because the algorithms we're writing are usually counting things on arrays, and we can't have very long arrays right?
20:23 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/algorithms.pdf
20:23 <pippijn> this is an O(n) algorithm
20:24 <pippijn> you can see two of them
20:24 <pippijn> one is O(n) and one is O(2n)
20:25 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/algorithms2.pdf
20:25 <pippijn> this shows an O(n) and an O(n^2) algorithm
20:25 <pippijn> they are about as far away from each other as the O(2n) and O(n) algorithm
20:26 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/algorithms3.pdf
20:26 <pippijn> here you can see what happens when n is 1000
20:26 <pippijn> the O(n) algorithm is at the x-axis and O(n^2) is somewhere high up
20:27 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has joined #armagetron
20:27 <K-Yo> whoa
20:27 <K-Yo> indeed it hurts that poor computer
20:27 <pippijn> also important to understand is the following
20:27 <K-Yo> i'm making an exercise interesting
20:28 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/algorithms4.pdf
20:28 <pippijn> the first algorithm (the one at the top) is slower than the lower algorithm
20:28 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit ["brb"]
20:28 <pippijn> but only at the beginning
20:28 <z-man> epsy: WHICH BUG?
20:28 <K-Yo> to solve it i first have to write an algorithm in O(n^3), then one in O(n^2) and there is on the third question an algorithm given and i can see that it is in O(n) and gives me the same answer
20:29 * z-man hates incomplete bug descriptions
20:29 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/algorithms5.pdf
20:29 <K-Yo> 4 and 5 are the same right?
20:29 <pippijn> yes
20:30 <pippijn> but 5 shows how O(n^2) is slower in the end
20:30 <K-Yo> then it depends on how much steps you have
20:30 <K-Yo> the method u chose
20:30 <pippijn> even if the O(n) algorithm is slower for n = 1 000 000
20:30 <pippijn> O(n^2) might be slower for n = 1 000 000 000
20:30 <epsy> z-man, you can't PM the logged in users, only the other ones
20:30 <pippijn> eventually, it will be slower
20:30 <epsy> when you are admin-silenced
20:31 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #armagetron
20:31 <K-Yo> and you ALWAYS chose the faster when we're at infinity?
20:31 <pippijn> no
20:31 <z-man> I've never heard of that bug :)
20:31 <pippijn> in real life, you don't
20:31 <K-Yo> why?
20:31 <epsy> z-man, ah?
20:31 <pippijn> in real life, you chose the algorithm that does your job best
20:31 <z-man> Is it in 0.2.8-auth or plain 0.2.8
20:31 <K-Yo> ok
20:32 <K-Yo> depending on how much steps you have right?
20:32 <pippijn> depending on a lot of things
20:32 <pippijn> that's one of them, yes
20:32 <K-Yo> ok thanks a lot
20:32 <pippijn> when programming, you also have to think about memory footprint
20:32 <K-Yo> i herad that
20:32 <pippijn> easy example: fibonacci
20:33 <z-man> epsy: ah, by design, you still can communicate with your team when you are admin-silenced.
20:33 <K-Yo> i worked on fibonacci a bit last year
20:33 <pippijn> do you know how to calculate fibonacci numbers?
20:33 <epsy> brb dinner
20:33 <K-Yo> some work on the golden number
20:33 <K-Yo> yep
20:33 <K-Yo> Un+2=Un+1 + Un
20:33 <pippijn> can you tell me the recursive definition of fibonacci?
20:34 <K-Yo> U0=1 U1=1
20:34 <K-Yo> and Un+1/Un -> golden number
20:34 * z-man notes that pippijn really has a helpful personality
20:34 * K-Yo agrees :D
20:34 <pippijn> K-Yo: recursive definitions go like this:
20:34 * K-Yo is fine with that
20:34 <z-man> bbl, dinner
20:34 <pippijn> fact(0) = 1
20:35 <pippijn> fact(n) = n * fact(n - 1)
20:35 <K-Yo> that is not for fibonacci
20:35 <pippijn> that's factorial, as you can see
20:35 <K-Yo> yep
20:35 <pippijn> what would fibonacci look like?
20:36 <K-Yo> fibo(0)=1 ; fibo(1)=1 ; fibo(n)=fibo(n-1)+ fibo(n-2)
20:36 <pippijn> exactly
20:36 <pippijn> now to get back to algorithms
20:36 <pippijn> when doing this with a computer, in C it would look like this:
20:36 <K-Yo> i never learned c (no time)
20:36 <pippijn> well
20:37 <K-Yo> you know CamL?
20:37 <pippijn> uhm
20:37 <pippijn> let rec fibo n =
20:37 <pippijn> match x with
20:37 <pippijn> 0 -> 1
20:37 <pippijn> | 1 -> 1
20:38 <pippijn> | n -> fibo (n - 1) + fibo (n - 2);;
20:38 <pippijn> makes sense?
20:38 <K-Yo> uhm
20:38 <K-Yo> i show you how i would have written it
20:38 <pippijn> don't bother
20:38 <K-Yo> ok
20:38 <pippijn> you can use the function keyword, I know
20:38 <pippijn> what happens if you cann fibo (3)?
20:39 <K-Yo> ?
20:39 <K-Yo> cann?
20:39 <pippijn> can
20:39 <pippijn> er
20:39 <pippijn> call
20:39 <pippijn> :-)
20:39 <K-Yo> the comp goes for fibo(2), fibo(1) and add them
20:39 <K-Yo> but since he can't find fibo(2)
20:40 <K-Yo> he looks for fibo(1) and fibo(0) and add them
20:40 <pippijn> yes
20:40 <K-Yo> but calling fibo(10000000) would take a lot of rom
20:40 <K-Yo> no?
20:40 <K-Yo> storing all the fibo(9999999) etc
20:40 <pippijn> that's not really a problem
20:41 <pippijn> the problem is that it doesn't do it once
20:41 <pippijn> fibo (5) = fibo (4) + fibo (3)
20:41 <epsy> z-man, by design you must be able to PM the logged in users
20:41 <pippijn> it calls fibo (4)
20:41 <epsy> but no the rest
20:41 <pippijn> calculates it
20:41 <pippijn> and then calls fibo (3)
20:41 <pippijn> but hey, fibo (4) already calculated fibo (3) before
20:41 <pippijn> so it does the work again
20:41 <K-Yo> he remembers that?
20:42 <pippijn> and it does so recursively
20:42 <pippijn> he doesn't remember it
20:42 <K-Yo> too bad for him
20:42 <pippijn> it just does it over and over again
20:42 * K-Yo is happy not being a machine
20:42 <pippijn> what O() efficiency would this be?
20:42 <K-Yo> eer
20:42 <K-Yo> wait
20:42 <K-Yo> smthing like 0(n^n) no?
20:43 <pippijn> :-)
20:43 <pippijn> why?
20:43 <K-Yo> why ask?
20:43 <K-Yo> :D
20:43 <K-Yo> err
20:43 <K-Yo> lmt
20:44 <K-Yo> for fibo(n) it has 2 things to calculate. each has 2 things to calculate
20:44 <K-Yo> then it should be O(2^n)
20:44 <K-Yo> oh, computers love 2
20:45 <K-Yo> is INRIA a french organization?
20:45 <pippijn> we call O(2^n) algorithms O(k^n) algorithms
20:45 <pippijn> because the base doesn't really matter
20:45 <K-Yo> ah
20:45 <K-Yo> then it is in power of n
20:46 <pippijn> in O-notation, we tend to get rid of constants
20:46 <pippijn> and do you know what the name of such an algorithm is?
20:46 <pippijn> it's not linear
20:46 <pippijn> it's not quadratic
20:46 <K-Yo> exponential?
20:46 <pippijn> yes
20:46 <K-Yo> ;)
20:46 <pippijn> but it doesn't have to be
20:47 <K-Yo> why?
20:47 <pippijn> if you store the intermediate results
20:47 <K-Yo> yes
20:47 <pippijn> I could show you how to do so in C++ but I assume you don't know C++
20:47 <pippijn> and I don't know caml well enough to do it
20:47 <K-Yo> you mean you can make an algorithm that calculate fibo(n) faster?
20:47 <K-Yo> is caml famous?
20:48 <pippijn> quite
20:48 <K-Yo> because we have to learn it in our school system but i don't find it very useful for everything else that math
20:48 <pippijn> you can do stuff with it :-)
20:48 <pippijn> write compilers, games, anything really
20:49 <pippijn> but I don't know the language, I just know that people have done that with it
20:49 <K-Yo> ok
20:49 <K-Yo> i'll learn c/C++
20:49 <pippijn> what would the computative complexity of recursive fibonacci be if the computer was smart enough to store each intermediate result?
20:49 <K-Yo> "computative complexity"?
20:50 <pippijn> O()
20:50 <K-Yo> ah
20:50 <K-Yo> eer
20:50 <K-Yo> n
20:50 <pippijn> yes :-)
20:50 <K-Yo> for fibo(n)
20:50 <K-Yo> u'll have to calculate only fibo(n-1)... fibo(3)
20:50 <pippijn> it would be an algorithm of "linear complexity"
20:51 <K-Yo> what is quadratic?
20:51 <K-Yo> n^4?
20:51 <pippijn> n^2
20:51 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:51 <K-Yo> ok
20:51 <pippijn> what is also important about O-notation is that O means minimum complexity
20:51 <pippijn> so any O(n) algorithm is also an O(n^2) algorithm
20:52 <pippijn> O(n) is like a subset of O(n^2)
20:52 <pippijn> but of course, you don't want to tell your customers, you have an O(n^2) algorithm if in fact it is O(n)
20:52 <pippijn> although it would be perfectly correct to do so
20:53 <K-Yo> ok
20:54 <K-Yo> what software should i use to start programming in C?
20:54 <pippijn> do you use linux?
20:54 <Stewie-arma> rofl Kennedy's brain is lost...
20:54 <K-Yo> nope
20:54 <K-Yo> :(
20:54 <pippijn> windows?
20:54 <K-Yo> yes :((
20:54 <pippijn> do you have access to microsoft visual studio?
20:55 <K-Yo> i heard code::blocks was good
20:55 <K-Yo> hum i don't know
20:55 <guru3> it is good
20:55 <pippijn> never tried code::blocks
20:55 <guru3> pippijn: iirc based off of mingw
20:55 <pippijn> interesting
20:55 <pippijn> that would be nice
20:56 <pippijn> but mingw uses gcc 3.4, doesn't it?
20:56 <pippijn> either way, mingw is usually quite backwards
20:56 <guru3> i'm not that up to date on the specs
20:56 <pippijn> K-Yo: if you can get msvc, it would be good
20:56 <pippijn> I think developing IDEs is the only thing ms is good at
20:57 <K-Yo> msvc?
20:57 <K-Yo> visual?
20:57 <pippijn> yes
20:57 <pippijn> but don't do anything visual
20:57 <K-Yo> i heard there was visual basic
20:57 <K-Yo> express
20:57 <pippijn> don't learn visual basic
20:57 <K-Yo> a free version
20:57 <K-Yo> ok
20:58 <pippijn> I think there is a visual c++ express
20:58 <K-Yo> yes
20:58 <K-Yo> this is a free version
20:58 <pippijn> and.. learn C++
20:58 <K-Yo> no?
20:58 <pippijn> yes
20:58 <K-Yo> yeah
20:58 <epsy> no
20:58 <K-Yo> what no?
20:58 <epsy> :)
20:58 <pippijn> well.. free as in beer
20:58 -!- g5vc [n=g5vc@unaffiliated/g5vc] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:58 <pippijn> you can have it without paying for it
20:59 <K-Yo> i can have a lot of things without paying
20:59 -!- g5vc [n=g5vc@host-87-242-37-149.prtelecom.hu] has joined #armagetron
20:59 <epsy> hrhr
20:59 <K-Yo> expecially things everyone wants without paying
20:59 <pippijn> legally :p
21:00 <K-Yo> aah
21:00 <K-Yo> that's different
21:00 * pippijn has a legal windows and a legal visual studio .net 2005 and a legal office professional 2003
21:00 * pippijn did not pay for any of those
21:01 <pippijn> siemens did :-D
21:02 * deja_vu refrains from making jokes about other things siemens paid for ;)
21:02 <wrtlprnft> so if i buy something from siemens i pay for your ms products?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> thief!
21:02 <K-Yo> noone would pay stuff for me
21:02 -!- g5vc [n=g5vc@host-87-242-37-149.prtelecom.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:03 <K-Yo> that's why i get un-legal stuff
21:03 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: yes
21:03 <K-Yo> i'm not so ashamed to steal from microsoft
21:03 <flex> lol
21:03 -!- g5vc [n=g5vc@host-87-242-37-149.prtelecom.hu] has joined #armagetron
21:03 <pippijn> siemens sucks
21:04 <K-Yo> do you feel ashame when you take some sand at the beach? or when you breeze the air a tree made?
21:04 <K-Yo> pippijn, is that were you work(ed)?
21:04 <pippijn> I work there, yes
21:04 <pippijn> but it still sucks
21:04 <K-Yo> what do you do?
21:04 <pippijn> it's one big dictatorship
21:05 <pippijn> and an evil empire, too
21:05 <pippijn> I am a programmer
21:05 <K-Yo> you show diagrams of algorithms speed?
21:05 <K-Yo> ah
21:05 <K-Yo> "evil empire"
21:05 <pippijn> I show diagrams, yes
21:05 <pippijn> not of algorithm speed
21:05 <pippijn> I drew those especially for you
21:05 <wrtlprnft> of speedy algorithms?
21:05 <K-Yo> you programm all kind of stuff? or specific things
21:05 <K-Yo> thanks :D
21:05 <pippijn> specific stuff
21:05 <K-Yo> ok
21:05 <K-Yo> that sounds interesting
21:06 <pippijn> for dependability calculations
21:06 <pippijn> usually for nuclear powerplants
21:06 <K-Yo> ah
21:06 <K-Yo> you don't do my cooking machine?
21:06 <flex> lol
21:06 <K-Yo> of my vacuum cleaner?
21:06 <K-Yo> :(
21:06 <pippijn> I could
21:06 <K-Yo> :D
21:06 <pippijn> the tools I create are generic enough to calculate vacuum cleaners and their reliability
21:07 <K-Yo> what are nucear powerplants for?
21:07 <pippijn> I can calculate the mean time between failures of your coffeemachine
21:07 <flex> ok pippijn enough showing off :p
21:07 <pippijn> I wasn't exactly trying to show off..
21:07 <K-Yo> ah you are calculating when things will broke, where they will brake etc?
21:07 <pippijn> yes
21:07 <K-Yo> ok
21:08 <wrtlprnft> so, when will Isar II break?
21:08 <pippijn> it'll probably be the engine :-D
21:08 <flex> i was joking chill :p
21:08 <K-Yo> it is more ingeeniring science than computer science then no?
21:08 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: in about 80 years
21:08 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: unless some parts get changed in that time
21:08 <wrtlprnft> lol
21:09 <wrtlprnft> if i'm still alive then i should probably move away
21:09 <pippijn> the computer used in isar ii lives for about 80 years
21:09 <pippijn> nah
21:09 <flex> lol
21:09 <pippijn> it'll just go down
21:09 <pippijn> nothing happens
21:09 <pippijn> it will stop working for 2 hours
21:09 <pippijn> then the mechanics will have exchanged it with another 90 years old computer
21:09 <flex> why will it go down? break?
21:09 <pippijn> then it'll work for another 80 years
21:09 <pippijn> :-D
21:09 <wrtlprnft> let's hope that's true ;)
21:09 <pippijn> unless there have been mice that ate the computer's cable
21:09 <pippijn> ;-)
21:10 <pippijn> but we don't specifically calculate the danger of mice
21:10 <wrtlprnft> what about mutant mice?
21:10 <pippijn> flex: the computer will break for some unspecified reason
21:10 <wrtlprnft> jk
21:10 <pippijn> most components in nuclear powerplants live about 3000 years
21:11 <flex> unspecified reason?..
21:11 <pippijn> flex: we are not interested in the reason
21:11 <pippijn> other people are
21:11 <flex> i see
21:11 <pippijn> those who calculate the reliability of the computer are
21:12 <pippijn> we just use their values and calculate the overall reliability of the entire plant
21:12 <flex> well i guess 80 year old systems really aren't the issue when you want to know why it broke
21:12 <pippijn> their value is that a computer lives fo 120 years
21:12 <pippijn> for*
21:12 <pippijn> and the entire plant will work for approximately 80 years
21:12 <pippijn> which does not mean it might not go down tomorrow
21:12 <K-Yo> how long does a HD lives?
21:12 <pippijn> it's just a mean value
21:13 <pippijn> K-Yo: there is no HD
21:13 <K-Yo> i have one at home
21:13 <flex> before being replaced you mean pippijin?
21:13 <pippijn> power plants don't
21:13 <wrtlprnft> err
21:13 <wrtlprnft> i'm pretty sure there's tons of harddisks
21:13 <wrtlprnft> maybe not in critical positions
21:13 <flex> yeah, sounds logical
21:14 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: there is not one single hard disk in the plant at flammanvill in france
21:14 <K-Yo> pippijn, do you know how long does my HD lives, i mean do i have to buy a new one some day if i don't want to lose my files?
21:14 <wrtlprnft> if i visit it and bring my laptop?
21:14 <K-Yo> france FTW
21:14 <pippijn> flammanvill utilises quite a lot of flash memory..
21:15 <pippijn> flammanville
21:15 <wrtlprnft> or portable audio player w/ HD
21:15 <flex> lol wrtlprnft
21:15 <pippijn> well :-)
21:15 <pippijn> personal property is irrelevant
21:15 <flex> is flammanville the only one?
21:15 <flex> any others in the UK?
21:15 <pippijn> the only what?
21:16 <guru3> i keep reading flammable
21:16 <guru3> that's not good in the context of power plant
21:16 <K-Yo> lol
21:16 <pippijn> I haven't been working on UK plants
21:16 <flex> that you'ved worked with
21:16 <pippijn> guru3 ;-)
21:16 <K-Yo> pippijn, u live in france?
21:16 <pippijn> no
21:16 <K-Yo> u travel then?
21:16 <pippijn> sometimes, yes
21:16 <K-Yo> that's a luck :D
21:16 <pippijn> but I mostly operate from here
21:16 <K-Yo> not everyone can in his job
21:16 <K-Yo> understandable
21:17 <pippijn> I've been to dubai once :-D
21:17 <K-Yo> u bought stuff?
21:17 <pippijn> no time :-\
21:17 <K-Yo> i heard it costs nothing there
21:17 <K-Yo> ah too bad
21:17 <pippijn> I was watching them install a transformer
21:17 <pippijn> uhm
21:18 <MrBougo> #ping
21:18 <K-Yo> transformer sounds like a movie
21:18 <armabot> pong
21:18 <pippijn> K-Yo: I looked for one in google images
21:18 <pippijn> I just saw cars in weird positions
21:18 <K-Yo> ^^
21:18 <pippijn> http://www.power-technology.com/contractor_images/pauwels/3_Power-Transformer.jpg
21:18 <pippijn> this type
21:18 <pippijn> it nearly broke
21:18 <K-Yo> what does it do usually?
21:18 <pippijn> if that had happened, I wouldn't have been back home for three more weeks
21:19 <pippijn> K-Yo: a transformer?
21:19 <K-Yo> yes
21:19 <wrtlprnft> transform voltages?
21:19 <K-Yo> ah
21:19 <pippijn> yes
21:19 <z-man> epsy: who wrote the design? Where can I read it? :)
21:19 <K-Yo> this one u show me is bog
21:19 <K-Yo> i though it was smaller
21:19 <pippijn> 15KV => 750V
21:19 <K-Yo> ah
21:19 <K-Yo> ok
21:19 <K-Yo> it must produce a lot of heat
21:19 <pippijn> it does
21:20 <wrtlprnft> the voltage probably doesn't make it that big, though ;)
21:20 <K-Yo> why don't we put transformers in alska?
21:20 <pippijn> the innards of that thing are ceramics
21:20 <K-Yo> oh
21:20 <K-Yo> you can cook i it ><
21:20 <pippijn> indeed, the voltage doesn't have anything to do with the heat
21:20 <epsy> z-man, wrtlprnft noticed about this bug and told about it here
21:20 <wrtlprnft> what bug?
21:20 <epsy> then i though it was fixed in the meantime
21:21 <K-Yo> the pm thing
21:21 <wrtlprnft> about silencing?
21:21 <epsy> wrtlprnft, PMing while being silenced by admin
21:21 <wrtlprnft> that used to be by design
21:21 <flex> that's a bug?
21:21 <wrtlprnft> silencing was for preventing public chat
21:21 <epsy> flex, currently you cannot PM the admin, only other players
21:21 <flex> oh
21:21 <P4> that's good, silenced players should be able to say /team defence is down
21:21 <epsy> it should be the inverse
21:22 <flex> yes
21:22 <wrtlprnft> err
21:22 <StickyNoob> god dam sumoers
21:22 <wrtlprnft> let me have a look at it
21:22 <P4> you can always silence the player for yourself
21:22 <K-Yo> Indeed
21:22 * wrtlprnft blames wrtlprnft
21:22 <epsy> P4, then if you want that just go to your silence menu
21:22 * epsy blames wrtlprnft
21:22 * flex agrees
21:23 <flex> can silenced players (by design) be able to say /team defence down?
21:24 <wrtlprnft> i think so, yeah
21:24 <P4> #list
21:24 <armabot> P4: Admin, Alias, Babelfish, CIA, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, CyborgName, Dict, Format, Freshmeat, Games, Google, Insult, Karma, Later, Linux, Markov, Math, Misc, News, Nickometer, Owner, Plugin, Praise, Python, Quote, RSS, Seen, Services, Sourceforge, Time, User, Utilities, Weather, and Web
21:24 <P4> #sourceforge stats armagetronad
21:24 <armabot> P4: Armagetron Advanced has 21 developers, is 99.86% active (ranked 299), has had 966232 downloads (Download count: 1,556 today), has 36 open bugs (out of 228), has 27 open rfes (out of 41), and has 3 open patches (out of 4).
21:24 <wrtlprnft> although i don't see why that would happen
21:24 <epsy> should i publish the team arrangement info publically (TST)
21:24 <wrtlprnft> epsy: meet you at café
21:25 <P4> almost million downloads :D
21:25 <epsy> wrtlprnft, i'm there
21:25 <guru3> #sourceforge stats armagetron
21:25 <armabot> guru3: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
21:25 <guru3> :<
21:26 <flex> hehe P4, only about 50k to go :p
21:26 <guru3> a month or so
21:26 <guru3> #sourceforge stats armagetron
21:26 <armabot> guru3: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
21:26 <guru3> poo
21:26 <guru3> wanted to see what the original project was at
21:27 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/up/150kvswitch.mp4
21:27 <pippijn> I like that video :-)
21:28 <wrtlprnft> epsy: i'll update x sumo
21:28 <epsy> ok
21:29 <guru3> yeah
21:29 <guru3> those are fun pippijn
21:29 <wrtlprnft> epsy: x sumo == testserver, right?
21:29 <epsy> yes
21:30 <wrtlprnft> that one uses exactly the same binary as café
21:30 <epsy> strange
21:30 <wrtlprnft> maybe restart it again
21:30 <epsy> someone reported someone i silenced asked him to unsilence himself
21:30 <epsy> ok
21:30 <wrtlprnft> dunno when i last updated café
21:31 <flex> keygen music rules tbh
21:31 <flex> i could listen to them all day
21:32 <epsy> oh shit
21:32 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq (==) at sendstats.pl line 78, <SOCK> line 173.
21:32 <wrtlprnft> just a warning from your script
21:32 <epsy> just figured that there was players in the server
21:32 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: what version?
21:32 <wrtlprnft> wget http://dashjr.org/~armastats-srv/download/sendstats.pl.r720.bz2 -O- | bunzip2 >sendstats.pl
21:32 <wrtlprnft> is the last cmd of its kind in my history
21:34 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: nothing after that warning?
21:34 <wrtlprnft> it did reconnect, disconnect, get rejected and <not god> knows what after that
21:34 <wrtlprnft> it's still running, apparently it's connected now
21:35 <luke-jr> the line immediately after that warning, tho?
21:35 <wrtlprnft> lost connection-- attempting reconnect at sendstats.pl line 81, <SOCK> line 173.
21:35 <luke-jr> ok
21:35 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/889284
21:36 <wrtlprnft> err, the tabs are just a side effect of copying from a screen session in copy mode inside a screen session inside konsole
21:36 <luke-jr> r831 is uploaded, fixing the warning
21:37 <wrtlprnft> was it any serious?
21:37 <luke-jr> no, it treated the undef as 0 anyway
21:37 <luke-jr> so I just modified the code to not give a warning ☺
21:37 <wrtlprnft> ok, then i'm too lazy to upgrade ;)
21:37 <luke-jr> however, earlier upgrades have a new feature
21:37 <wrtlprnft> i'll fetch it with the next upgrade, if there is any
21:38 <luke-jr> the $0 includes the server name now
21:38 <luke-jr> and renices by 10
21:38 <wrtlprnft> i guess i'll upgrade, then…
21:38 <luke-jr> as for all those warnings, it was during wiping the ratings db the other night
21:39 <flex> hey wrtlprnft, why does x sumo lag alot more then cafe when quite populated?
21:39 <wrtlprnft> because there's more zones?
21:39 <wrtlprnft> because there's more dogfighting?
21:39 <luke-jr> #rating wrtlprnft
21:39 <armabot> luke-jr: wrtlprnft is 187th with a rating of 1372-1828 (from 1150-1850)
21:39 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
21:39 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 94th with a rating of 1465-1562 (from 1150-1850)
21:39 <luke-jr> :o
21:39 <flex> you reset it luke?
21:39 <luke-jr> not that it's very meaningful yet
21:39 <luke-jr> since it's still RP 1
21:40 <luke-jr> flex: over 24h ago
21:40 <pippijn> you know why tesla coils make such a noise?
21:40 <flex> epsy is the correct config loaded? it always seems different to teamsumo.cfg
21:41 <wrtlprnft> because they only work because of the sparks in their circuit?
21:41 <wrtlprnft> dunno the correct english term
21:41 <epsy> flex, /admin include fort.cfg then /admin include sumo.cfg
21:41 <flex> we're using team sumo here.. with correct settings as well.. not sumo.cfg with teams included.. or is that same thing?
21:42 <epsy> sumo.cfg has teams
21:43 <flex> ok epsy & wrtlprnft can we have a fixed limit on teams, so we have a max number of zones to 2
21:43 <epsy> second
21:43 <flex> as soon as it gets to 3 it lags, so can they just spec till a team becomes available
21:44 <epsy> yea i understand
21:44 <flex> I guess that's our only solution, unless wrtlprnft wants to increase the power :p
21:44 <wrtlprnft> i think i pay enough for that server already
21:45 <epsy> flex, /admin include sumo.cfg
21:45 <flex> epsy i don't have pass
21:45 <epsy> ask fofo
21:45 <epsy> :D
21:45 * epsy is reading /you
21:45 <wrtlprnft> epsy should have the pass, too
21:45 <wrtlprnft> at least he's got the means to get it
21:45 <epsy> flex, again
21:46 <flex> he says done
21:46 <epsy> tell him to do it again
21:46 <epsy> he means done a hour ago
21:46 <epsy> jeez
21:47 <flex> i know he means that lol
21:47 <flex> i just cba
21:47 <epsy> 8 teams max now
21:47 <epsy> done
21:47 <flex> is that enough?
21:47 <epsy> yes
21:48 <flex> is it done?
21:49 <flex> why can't you just do it yourself on the admin
21:49 <epsy> i just did...
21:49 <pippijn> http://armagetronad.xinutec.org/ideas.html <- looks like people aren't really interested in web interfaces for armagetron
21:50 <wrtlprnft> well, there's a test server where you can leave comments directly ingame
21:50 <wrtlprnft> noone appears to use it
21:50 <wrtlprnft> if they did it would be printed right in this #
21:50 <pippijn> hm
21:51 <pippijn> I could do that, too
21:51 <flex> is there any lag produced with IRC relaying from ingame log?
21:51 <pippijn> no
21:51 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@queue.rh.rit.edu] has quit []
21:51 <pippijn> the irc bot runs completely asynchronous
21:51 <wrtlprnft> normal network lag, i presume
21:51 <flex> does there have to be a bot in the server?
21:52 <wrtlprnft> nemo was here? o_O
21:52 <wrtlprnft> bot == server
21:52 <flex> ah kk
21:52 <pippijn> the irc connection if you like
21:52 <pippijn> runs async
21:52 <wrtlprnft> (that's talking about pippijn's approach, not FTS's)
21:52 <flex> right
21:52 <flex> what possible use could irc relay be ? :P
21:53 <pippijn> I just wanted to have it :-)
21:53 <pippijn> for myself
21:53 <flex> any specific use?
21:53 <pippijn> well
21:53 <wrtlprnft> z-man: didn't read that C't yet
21:53 <pippijn> I can talk with the players without playing myself
21:53 <wrtlprnft> have it lying around, though
21:53 <pippijn> also
21:53 <pippijn> 14:05 -armagetron:#armagetron- pippijn won the round
21:53 <wrtlprnft> i usually don't care too much about the free software that's on those CDs, but nice to know that it's there
21:54 <luke-jr> "shorter trails would be nice maybe around 800" <-- wtf?
21:54 <flex> lol
21:54 <pippijn> well
21:54 <pippijn> my server has 800 lenght units of walls
21:54 <luke-jr> lol
21:55 <pippijn> so I'm unsure what he/she means
21:55 <luke-jr> pippijn: btw, CSS3 has a nice :nth-child(2n+1) that makes for easy even/odd colouring
21:55 <luke-jr> lots of sucky browsers don't support it tho ☹
21:56 <pippijn> luke-jr: interesting :-)
21:56 <luke-jr> like IE, FireFox, and Opera
21:56 * luke-jr grumbles about poor standards compliance
21:57 <deja_vu> hehe
21:57 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: opera 9.5's previews support it
21:57 <luke-jr> good ☺
21:58 <flex> wtf epsy
21:58 <flex> you cock!
21:58 <luke-jr> wtf flex
21:58 <epsy> <epsy> it also crashes my browser
21:59 <luke-jr> pippijn: how is your IRC hack async?
21:59 <luke-jr> pippijn: wait, dumb question; I was thinking threaded ☹
21:59 <pippijn> luke-jr: it doesn't block anything, hence it's async
21:59 * luke-jr ponders if nanohttp supports async
22:00 <flex> what i'm wondering is, what possible use it could have :p
22:00 <flex> i know it's useful somehow :p
22:03 <luke-jr> flex: ?
22:03 <flex> luke-jr?
22:04 <luke-jr> flex: what?
22:04 <flex> luke-jr what?
22:04 <luke-jr> flex: what?
22:04 <flex> luke-jr what?
22:05 <luke-jr> flex: wtf!
22:05 <flex> luke-jr what! i don't get it
22:06 <luke-jr> u sux!
22:06 <flex> i was talking about the irc relay thing he has
22:09 <flex> luke-jr fu
22:09 <flex> :p
22:09 <pippijn> it is useful for new players for example
22:09 <pippijn> to help them
22:09 <pippijn> I don't play all day
22:09 <pippijn> but I am on IRC most of my time
22:10 <pippijn> most players seem not to recognise the irc/ on my name (irc/pippijn ingame) as a hint that I am actually on irc
22:11 <pippijn> they say welcome and assume I am going to play with them
22:12 <flex> hehe
22:35 <pippijn> z-man: you there?
22:55 <z-man> yeah, sort of :)
22:55 <pippijn> sometype::sometype ()
22:55 <pippijn> : mem_ (1)
22:55 <pippijn> {
22:55 <pippijn> }
22:55 <pippijn> or
22:55 <pippijn> sometype::sometype ()
22:56 <pippijn> : mem_ (1)
22:56 <pippijn> etc
22:58 * z-man prefers the first
22:58 <pippijn> good
22:58 <z-man> But I think I didn't get emacs and astyle to agree with me :)
22:58 <pippijn> doesn't really matter
22:58 <pippijn> vim doesn't agree either
22:58 <Stewie-arma> #math 8.7*24*60
22:59 <Stewie-arma> ...
22:59 <Stewie-arma> it's still thinking...
22:59 <epsy> :D
22:59 <GodTodd> #math calc 8.7*24*60
22:59 <armabot> GodTodd: 12528.0
22:59 <Stewie-arma> oh well
23:00 <MrBougo> #math calc e^pi - pi
23:00 <armabot> MrBougo: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
23:00 <MrBougo> yey
23:00 <epsy> Stewie-arma, armabot is a Blonde
23:00 <MrBougo> #help math
23:00 <armabot> MrBougo: Error: There is no command "math".
23:00 <Stewie-arma> #math calc 8.7*24*60*60
23:00 <armabot> Stewie-arma: 751680.0
23:00 <MrBougo> definitely
23:00 <Stewie-arma> hehe forgot one
23:00 <MrBougo> #help calc
23:00 <armabot> MrBougo: Error: That command exists in the Google and Math plugins. Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.
23:00 <GodTodd> #g e^pi - pi
23:00 <armabot> GodTodd: (e^pi) - pi = 19.9991
23:00 <MrBougo> #help math calc
23:00 <armabot> MrBougo: (math calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
23:00 <epsy> someone with good english knowledge could help me ?
23:00 <Stewie-arma> had to adjust a ban...
23:00 <GodTodd> #g e^(pi - pi)
23:00 <armabot> GodTodd: e^(pi - pi) = 1
23:01 <GodTodd> :)
23:01 <MrBougo> rofl :p
23:01 <MrBougo> OMG THATS AWESOME
23:01 <epsy> hahaha
23:01 <MrBougo> DOES THAT ONLY WORK WITH e ?
23:01 <MrBougo> AND PI?
23:01 <GodTodd> what? 1st power?
23:01 <GodTodd> er
23:01 <GodTodd> 0th power?
23:01 <epsy> #g e^(pi - pi + 1)
23:01 <armabot> epsy: e^(pi - pi + 1) = 2.71828183
23:02 <GodTodd> #g avogadro's number
23:02 <armabot> GodTodd: Avogadro's number = 6.0221415 * 10^(23)
23:02 <MrBougo> #g e^(e^(pi-pi)-e^(e^pi-e^pi))
23:02 <armabot> MrBougo: e^((e^(pi - pi)) - (e^((e^pi) - (e^pi)))) = 1
23:02 <epsy> can someone with good english knowledge could help me ?
23:02 <MrBougo> wooooot
23:02 <epsy> er
23:02 <GodTodd> #g avogadro's number^(e^(pi-pi))
23:02 <armabot> GodTodd: Avogadro's number^(e^(pi - pi)) = 6.0221415 * 10^(23)
23:02 <MrBougo> rofl
23:02 <epsy> could someone with good english knowledge help me ?*
23:02 <MrBougo> makes no sense
23:02 <MrBougo> #g boltzmann's constant
23:02 <armabot> MrBougo: Boltzmann constant = 1.3806503 * 10^(-23) m^(2) kg s^(-2) K^(-1)
23:03 <MrBougo> #g perfect gas constant
23:03 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:03 <MrBougo> dunno how thats called in english
23:03 <MrBougo> #g ideal gas constant
23:03 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:03 <MrBougo> #g ideal gas
23:03 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:04 <MrBougo> #g gas constant
23:04 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:04 <MrBougo> :D
23:04 <MrBougo> #g c^e^pi
23:04 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:04 <MrBougo> #g c
23:04 <armabot> MrBougo: the speed of light = 299,792,458 m / s
23:04 <MrBougo> so
23:04 <MrBougo> #g c ^ (e ^ pi)
23:04 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:04 <MrBougo> usuck
23:05 <MrBougo> #g speed of sound in water
23:05 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:05 <MrBougo> haar
23:05 <epsy> #g c ^(e^pi)
23:05 <epsy> #g c^(e^pi)
23:05 <armabot> epsy: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:05 <armabot> epsy: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:05 * epsy slaps Google's calculator
23:06 <MrBougo> #g speed of sound in air at sea level
23:06 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:06 <MrBougo> #g speed of sound in vacuum
23:06 * MrBougo runs away
23:06 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:07 <pippijn> z-man: is there any particular version of the C++ standard to which armagetronad's code must comply?
23:07 <MrBougo> #g (speed of light) ^ ((euler's constant) ^ pi)
23:07 <armabot> MrBougo: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:07 <MrBougo> oooooh right
23:07 <MrBougo> units
23:07 <MrBougo> #g (speed of light * 1 s/m) ^ ((euler's constant) ^ pi)
23:08 <armabot> MrBougo: (the speed of light * 1 (s / m))^(Euler's constant^pi) = 32.2243954
23:08 <pippijn> s/m?
23:08 <MrBougo> rofl
23:08 <MrBougo> second per meter
23:08 <pippijn> interesting..
23:09 <MrBougo> bye
23:09 <pippijn> cya
23:10 <z-man> pippijn: ALL OF THEM :)
23:10 <pippijn> also C++98?
23:10 <z-man> No, we're just trying to keep up with current gcc versions.
23:10 <pippijn> good
23:11 <pippijn> so I am allowed to use tr1
23:11 <z-man> None of us actually knows the standards well enough to enforce them without a pedantic compiler.
23:11 <pippijn> hm
23:11 <z-man> tr1?
23:11 <pippijn> I just know C++98
23:11 <pippijn> a bit :-)
23:11 <pippijn> I read it through twice
23:11 <pippijn> but I probably forgot all the details
23:12 <pippijn> it's a bit dry :p
23:12 <z-man> Really? I find it extremely boring to read.
23:12 <pippijn> yes
23:12 <pippijn> it is
23:12 <pippijn> but when you are on a train that goes for five and a half hours..
23:12 <pippijn> with nothing else to do
23:12 <pippijn> and you do that every second week
23:13 <pippijn> then the next logical step would be reading the C++ standard
23:13 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-214-251.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []
23:13 <pippijn> I also took the C standard with me as a reference
23:13 <z-man> I would make sure I have something interesting to do :)
23:13 <pippijn> because C++98 refers to it a lot
23:13 <pippijn> is there a way in doxygen to make headings?
23:13 <pippijn> like <h2>?
23:13 <z-man> I tink it is defined in the style files.
23:14 <z-man> And I also think there is a way to output raw html
23:14 <pippijn> \par
23:14 <pippijn> got it
23:14 -!- spidey [n=spidey@adsl-065-006-218-226.sip.mem.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:14 <z-man> What are you doing, anyway? Writing a coding standard draft?
23:15 <pippijn> no
23:15 <pippijn> I'm just documenting rona
23:15 <pippijn> a bit
23:15 -!- spidey [n=spidey@adsl-065-006-218-226.sip.mem.bellsouth.net] has joined #armagetron
23:15 <z-man> Ah, ok.
23:17 <flex> #rating |x|_flex
23:17 <armabot> flex: |x|_flex is 100th with a rating of 1467-1607 (from 1150-1850)
23:23 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
23:32 <pippijn> z-man: http://www.xinutec.org/html/
23:35 <pippijn> z-man: http://www.xinutec.org/html/structrona_1_1adt_1_1basic__string.html <- this is actually not implemented
23:36 <pippijn> z-man: I think there should be no inheritance from std::string
23:36 <pippijn> rather use a string algorithm library to get those things done
23:37 <z-man> Yeah.
23:37 * pippijn rm'ed his string class file
23:38 <pippijn> better now
23:38 <pippijn> z-man: I don't actually use rona anywhere, but armagetronad might be a good place to make use of it
23:55 * luke-jr just finished rewriting Armagetron in MOO
23:56 <luke-jr> j/k ☹
23:56 <epsy> is it binary code with 0s replaced by Os and 1 replaced by Ms ?
23:56 <luke-jr> lol
23:58 <pippijn> MOOOOOOOMMMMMMOOOMOOMOMMMOOOOMMOOOO
23:58 <pippijn> that's hello world :p
23:59 <epsy> MOM
23:59 <pippijn> epsy: segfault
23:59 <epsy> that's a noob « LOL »
23:59 <pippijn> oh :-)
23:59 <pippijn> yes
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