Log from 2006-09-04:
--- Day changed Mon Sep 04 2006
00:00 <Vanhayes> #last --fromm groundpig
00:00 <armabot> Vanhayes: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; --nolimit returns (1 more message)
00:00 <Vanhayes> #last --from groundpig
00:00 <armabot> Vanhayes: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 398 messages.
00:00 <wrtlprnft> yeah, like that
00:01 <Your_mom_arma> thanks
00:02 -!- arctanx [i=inverse@124-168-233-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["(^^)/"]
00:13 <wrtlprnft> 1-1
00:15  * Lucifer_arma yawns
00:15  * ghableska yawns too
00:16 <Lucifer_arma> wow, I was kidding when I said I'd be asleep during the ladle, and it turns out I really was asleep during the ladle
00:16 <ghableska> haha
00:29 <wrtlprnft> WE WON!!!!!!!!P
00:29 <wrtlprnft> yay
00:29 <Vanhayes> GO AW-B
00:29 <wrtlprnft> BBBBBBBBB!
00:29 <wrtlprnft> anyways, gonna fool with my recordings tomorrow
00:29 <ghableska> grr
00:29 <wrtlprnft> and gonna clean up the wiki
00:29 <Lackadaisical> hooray
00:29 <ghableska> AW still won :P
00:29 <Vanhayes> heh good luck with that
00:29 <ghableska> heh
00:30 <Vanhayes> then again AW got second too :)
00:30 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=4_Team_Fortress_Tourney_1&curid=2697&diff=15347&oldid=15308&rcid=13993
00:30 <wrtlprnft> wtf
00:30 <wrtlprnft> uh, 7 times TBA?
00:30 <wrtlprnft> or 6
00:31 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@81.193.17.187] has joined #armagetron
00:31 <wrtlprnft> well, it was funfunfun
00:31 <madmax|pt> great matches
00:31 <Lackadaisical> hi max
00:31 <Vanhayes> very
00:31 <madmax|pt> hello
00:31 <Lackadaisical> our zone was spinning so hard
00:32 <madmax|pt> yea :| i thought it was over
00:32 <madmax|pt> but then ghab and hay died
00:32 <Vanhayes> heh ya so did I
00:32 <madmax|pt> and boom
00:32 <wrtlprnft> yeah, that was intense
00:32 <Vanhayes> 1 or 2 more seconds and it would have been the other way around
00:32 <wrtlprnft> i2020: great job, when's the 4th ladle?
00:32 <madmax|pt> if they survived a bit longer and "tiny crowded" :D
00:33 <wrtlprnft> #night
00:33 <armabot> Good night wrtlprnft!
00:33 <madmax|pt> g'night wrtlprnft 
00:34 <Lackadaisical> good night
00:34 <ghableska> cu wrtlprnft
00:34  * ghableska grumbles
00:34 <Vanhayes> hmm I think im all tronned out for a while
00:34 <ghableska> hehe
00:34 <ghableska> me too
00:34 <Lackadaisical> lol
00:34 <madmax|pt> lolol
00:35  * ghableska 's fingers hurt
00:35 <MaZuffeR> mines does too
00:35 <Sticky> if you guys do wana do the golden bike...got to be Alex
00:35 <Vanhayes> that was a good 3 hours of intense tron
00:35 <Lackadaisical> well schools back again tomorrow
00:35 <Vanhayes> ya alex did good
00:35 <Vanhayes> heh I have labour day here so tuesdays school for me
00:35 <MaZuffeR> that is the most annoying def style
00:35 <Vanhayes> ya
00:35 <Vanhayes> kinda boring
00:36 <Sticky> but effective
00:36 <Lackadaisical> it used to be just radian doing that
00:36 <Vanhayes> ya untill people get fed up and take the winzone
00:36 <MaZuffeR> rad stopped doing it
00:36 <Vanhayes> ya but he invented it :/
00:36 <MaZuffeR> well, i dont know about that
00:37 <MaZuffeR> it's hard to stay focused when doing it
00:37 <Lackadaisical>  i used to call it 'radian style def'
00:37 <Vanhayes> ya just like how skip got credit for his style
00:37 <ghableska> heh
00:37 <Vanhayes> pretty sure lag was doing that before him tho
00:38 <Sticky> skip does that perfect circle thing
00:38 <ghableska> Vanhayes: did you find out if you were being admin killed at the LoD server?
00:38 <Sticky> realy anoying
00:38 <Vanhayes> I wasnt in the LOD match
00:38 <ghableska> hmm
00:38 <Vanhayes> I know he has done it before tho
00:38 <ghableska> someone was complaining about that...
00:38 <Lackadaisical> wasnt it max?
00:38 <ghableska> oh yeah
00:39 <Vanhayes> I always use /players in there anyway
00:39 <Vanhayes> if he is logged in and I die without a message, I put two and two together
00:39 -!- Legit [n=48c9461e@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has quit ["CGI:IRC"]
00:39 <ghableska> g2g, cu
00:39 <Vanhayes> cya ghableska 
00:39 <Lackadaisical> cya
00:39 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
00:43 <madmax|pt> i dont think i got admin killed today, but on the International tron comp some weeeeird things happened, so, i had reasons to doubt
00:44 <madmax|pt> also, Ady was talking through /msg to i think Dez, pretty obvious when they started saying stuff out of context
00:44 <Lackadaisical> didnt alex think he was admin killed?
00:44 <madmax|pt> something about someones death and they were... lol'ing about it
00:45 <madmax|pt> yes Lack
00:45 <madmax|pt> btw, can someone cause lag to an individual player?
00:46 <Sticky> yeah caus i was totaly screwed at one point
00:46 <madmax|pt> also on the Inter tron comp, i was getting some pretty BAD lag, when anyone else was getting it
00:47 <madmax|pt> and i didnt even start amule ...
00:47 <MaZuffeR> meri left SL
00:47 <madmax|pt> :o
00:47 <MaZuffeR> http://aa.shadowleague.de/viewtopic.php?id=18
00:47 <Lackadaisical> oh wow?
00:47 <i2020> wow... that was crazy
00:49 <i2020> wow.. mer seemed well fucked off
00:49 <madmax|pt> yeah...
00:50 <i2020> that was a crazy night... both on and off the grid
00:50 <Sticky> did look a bit bad when only about 1/3rd of the players in their team are in the clan
00:50 <i2020> the organisation was... terrible... complete mayhem... it is a miracle anything actually happened
00:51 <i2020> i would like to talk about stuff this week with players...
00:51 <i2020> did you get my email guys?
00:51 <madmax|pt> oh, forgot to reply to that 
00:51 <madmax|pt> sorry
00:52 <i2020> that's ok... it would be nice to talk to players i know on the grid...
00:52 <MaZuffeR> i don't think you have my email address...
00:52 <Vanhayes> havent checked  mine in about a week
00:52 <Sticky> yes 2020 i got that email
00:52 <i2020> o... that's true... what is it maz?
00:53 <MaZuffeR> mazuffer@mazuffer.com
00:53 <MaZuffeR> quite easy to remember
00:53 <i2020> you still don't have mic i bet...
00:53 <MaZuffeR> nope
00:53 <Lackadaisical> who did you mail?
00:54 <i2020> everyone on aw team
00:54 <i2020> and a few others
00:54 <i2020> i don't have your email for example
00:55 <Lackadaisical> youve sent me a mail yesterday
00:55 <Vanhayes> hmmwell Id like to say im surprised that SL failed to get enought people, but seeing the history of FE its exactally what i excpected
00:55 <Lackadaisical> MREBell@gmail.com
00:55 <i2020> i do have that... i think i sent one... let me check...
00:56 <madmax|pt> do you use MSN maz?
00:56 <MaZuffeR> yes: mazuffer@hotmail.com
00:57 <madmax|pt> ok thanks
00:57 <Lackadaisical> what was the email about?
00:58 <i2020> an invitation to talk...
00:58 <i2020> i want to know if there is anyone who actually wants to take this game further
00:58 <madmax|pt> "it would be much easier if we could talk...", are you sure 2020?
00:59 <i2020> i invited peopl on the forum, but got nothing... so i think perhaps talking... finding out what people are wanting... etc
00:59 <Sticky> what do you mean "further"
00:59 <Lackadaisical> talking as in talking through skype?
00:59 <i2020> talking is my medium, this typing is... a little... 
00:59 <i2020> yeah skype
00:59 <i2020> or i am willing to phone people i suppose
01:00 <i2020> further... as in... better competitions
01:00 <Vanhayes> well they seem to be getting better
01:00 <i2020> which means... more players... a greater retention of rate of people who play
01:00 <Sticky> well the way i see it more players means more noobs so you are going to have to make it more accessible for noobs
01:01 <i2020> yeah... but there is a danger of it becoming stagnant
01:01 <i2020> that's right, and keeping players too
01:01 <Vanhayes> ya the ladle hasnt really changed since the first one
01:01 <i2020> no... the ladle was meant to be a one off like spoon
01:01 <madmax|pt> LOL didnt show up right?
01:01 <Sticky> currently its a bit daunting that the only team that is open has some of the best players there is in it
01:01 <i2020> i just thought we need something...
01:01 <Vanhayes> ya maybe some of us should split up?
01:02 <madmax|pt> well, some of the best players are not in clans
01:02 <Vanhayes> go out recruiting newer players
01:02 <i2020> good... yeah... that's the kind of thinking i was going to ask for... 
01:02 <madmax|pt> which makes me happy, seing all the crap that happens on clans
01:02 <Lackadaisical> but good players tend to prefer to play with other good players
01:02 <i2020> that;'s right... how about each of us makes a team
01:02 <Vanhayes> true
01:02 <i2020> that kind of thing... could be fun
01:02 <i2020> we end up with 8 new teams at least
01:03 <Vanhayes> I ll try it out next one I know ahead of time ill be playing in
01:03 <i2020> we train them up... and we play another ladle like thing
01:03 <madmax|pt> splitting is not a bad idea
01:03 <i2020> that's another thing... how to make it more stable
01:03 <Sticky> naaa you need some sort of tierd system where you dont put everyone on the same level.  looks at other sports.  uk soccer 1st 2nd and 3rd division teams
01:03 <i2020> gads... we don't have enough for that
01:03 <Lackadaisical> we dont have enough people to have different levels
01:03 <Sticky> handicap then
01:04 <i2020> and i don't like the idea of us constraining our system based on traditionally evolved organisations
01:04 <Lackadaisical> but i think 4 open teams would be doable for the next ladle
01:04 <Your_mom_arma> put all the players in a pool and then seperate them into teams trying to make all the teams even?
01:04 <i2020> in the first spoon... there were loads of open teams
01:04 <i2020> that was the idea of the pool....
01:05 <i2020> players should only stick their names down if they can come
01:05 <madmax|pt> another issue is players actually showing up
01:05 <Sticky> well how about you do handicap it.  the team will start off with -ve points depending on the past performance of their players
01:05 <i2020> and if teamcaptains were more captainy, they could determine what their team is
01:06 <i2020> sticky.. i would be interested in your ideas... but we need systems... an organic thing that works...
01:06 <madmax|pt> some days ago newbie proposed me for us to make a team
01:06 <i2020> it is too easy to come up with bits, some rules here, there, and so on... and it becomes unmanageable
01:06 <Your_mom_arma> i'ld like to see smaller teams
01:06 <i2020> i love the mayhem of 8v8
01:06 <madmax|pt> i think there's some interested players who didnt find a suitable team to play
01:06 <Lackadaisical> why didn't you play anyway mom?
01:07 <Your_mom_arma> im still shaking off the spoon
01:07 <i2020> it is big enough for interesting things to happen, like in football with 11
01:07 <Lackadaisical> lol
01:07 <Vanhayes> I like Your_mom_arma's idea, do a random draw sort of thing with a max team of 8 per however many teams
01:07 <i2020> qhehhe
01:07 <i2020> could work...
01:07 <Sticky> also using a double knockout system is an easy way to improve it.  it ensures you dont organise a team...play 3 matches and leave
01:07 <Vanhayes> like, there is no teams only a bug pool
01:07 <i2020> we could try it on the next ladle
01:08 <madmax|pt> maybe a championship like competition? and not knock-off?
01:08 <Lackadaisical> i think we should ask for email or something when people sign up
01:08 <Vanhayes> set a date for when sign ups are done then do the random draw and have the tourney a week or so later
01:08 <Your_mom_arma> max_players_per_team 8  and,  max_playing_per_round 4
01:08 <Vanhayes> that way you could get some practice in
01:08 <i2020> no then you have the same problem of people actually turhing up
01:09 <Sticky> league system is difficult as 8 teams goes to 27 games i think
01:09 <i2020> the pool works on the night... we just sort it out there and then
01:09 <i2020> league is hellish
01:09 <Vanhayes> but that would cause a whole lot of confusion
01:09 <i2020> i think the ladle proves one thing...
01:09 <Vanhayes> who would play where
01:09 <i2020> it is exciting... and somehow it works...
01:09 <madmax|pt> well, at least some more organised games
01:10 <Sticky> double knock out is a giid system. many international gaming tounaments use it
01:10 <Sticky> good even
01:10 <i2020> i am going to set up something along the lines gar suggested
01:10 <i2020> what's this double knock out?
01:10 <Lackadaisical> what did he suggest?
01:10 <Your_mom_arma> ?
01:10 <MaZuffeR> double knockout is a bit confusing though
01:10 <Lackadaisical> winners/loser brackets
01:11 <Sticky> http://www.kttl.helsinki.fi/msiivola/go/knockout.html
01:12 <Sticky> or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-elimination_tournament maybe better
01:13 <i2020> tghanks... my brain was beginning to melt..
01:13 <madmax|pt> lol
01:13 <Lackadaisical> what did gar suggest 2020?
01:13 <MaZuffeR> not much point in double knockout unless we get more teams though
01:13 <i2020> wait a mo... the ladle can support that
01:14 <i2020> there are always plenty of redundant servers in later rounds... and losers can play there if they wish
01:14 <Sticky> yeah and it does mean you are garenteed to play atleast 2 games
01:14 <i2020> as for gar's idea
01:15 <i2020> winner stays on...
01:15 <i2020> so... i was thinking... at eg 7pm gmt.... aw field a team and take any challenging team... noobs or clans or whoever
01:15 <i2020> if we win... we stay on... if we lose, then they must stay on...
01:16 <Vanhayes> so like king of the hill style?
01:16 <Sticky> hmm how does winner stays on work??? who wins at the end... the team who wins the last game
01:16 <i2020> yes... king of the grid...
01:16 <Lackadaisical> that could be done in a longer period of time, like you could challenge the winner every sunday night
01:16 <Lackadaisical> the one who wins the best out of three
01:16 <i2020> kings of the grid.. exactly...
01:16 <i2020> i think with the system we have it should be done by time...
01:17 <Sticky> yeah after all if you do it on 1 night you would have to be mad to play first
01:17 <Vanhayes> hmm you could do that but not as a competition, as something seperate
01:17 <i2020> every half hour.. .best of 3 maybe... or best score on the half hour
01:17 <Lackadaisical> yes, it should be seperate from the ladle
01:17 <i2020> yeah
01:17 <i2020> but you can record the sequence of wins...
01:17 <Lackadaisical> yes
01:17 <Vanhayes> King of the Grid has anice name to it too :)
01:17 <Vanhayes> ring*
01:17 <i2020> eg aw could end up winning 8 challenges in a row... and read those illustrious losers
01:18 <Vanhayes> ya and there would be no definite winner just a "most wins in a row" sort of thing
01:18 <Lackadaisical> we could start with aw-b since they proved to be the best till now
01:18 <i2020> the ladle can run in a month.. i just want to have some good games... and thought this might work
01:19 <i2020> we could do it for a strict amount of time... and have a queue system...
01:19 <i2020> if you lose.. you go to the back of the queue and wait your time to challenge... 
01:19 <Lackadaisical> well you dont need to have the same teams the whole time
01:19 <Lackadaisical> just as long as you are king
01:20 <i2020> anyway... there are plenty of ideas to try out... the trick is... do people want to experiment...?
01:20 <i2020> i think subs are acceptable..
01:20 <Sticky> im still not sure this addresses the problem of making the competition look less of an elitest organisation and encouraging others to take part
01:20 <i2020> that's a different matter...
01:20 <Lackadaisical> did anyone get btw why alf was calling us elitist?
01:20 <Vanhayes> well if we get alot of new people into it that would solve itself I'd hope
01:20 <i2020> look.... to be frank.. this is the best conversation i've had...
01:20 <Sticky> cos we wouldnt admit him last min tp the team
01:21 <i2020> but i think it could be even better...
01:21 <Vanhayes> I dont think he realized it was a tourney, he thought it was just a random match
01:21 <i2020> so... i hope you guys respond to emails... we manage to hook up.. .and we have a good discussion
01:22 <i2020> i am hoping to find one or two people who have enough time and energy to do something...
01:22 <i2020> together...
01:22 <i2020> self-organising works when people pull together
01:22 <i2020> because they want to
01:22 <i2020> not because they are being paid or someone is forcing them too...
01:23 <i2020> but it is a little trickier to pull off...
01:23 <Sticky> i think if you realy want this to take off self organising wont last long
01:23 <i2020> still i am hoping...
01:23 <i2020> it can... it just relies on team captains
01:23 <i2020> i mean... i don't know why durka did what he did
01:23 <Vanhayes> btw a problem getting new people for a Standard fortress tourney is that there aren't many well used standard fortress servers anymore 
01:24 <i2020> but i should not have listened tohim... i should just talk to my captain... he had no right to wander around and tell players to do this or go there etc
01:24 <Sticky> well also on having players that co-operate AW-B got a bye in that for no real reason
01:24 <i2020> bye's should happen in the first round.. obviuosly...
01:24 <i2020> not in the semi.
01:24 <Sticky> if there were non-cooperative people around they would bitch like hell
01:24 <Lackadaisical> yes the difference would only be that ws and aw b would play later
01:24 <Vanhayes> ya it should have been AW vs AW in the semis with SL getting the bye
01:24 <i2020> self-organising is the future... look how this game is being produced by the developers!
01:25 <Sticky> its totaly different
01:25 <i2020> why?
01:25 <Sticky> the developers arnt trying to kill eachother
01:25 <i2020> neither are teammates
01:25 <Sticky> no but the teams are
01:25 <Vanhayes> well there has to be some organising, but i agree that for the most part it should be done by players
01:26 <Your_mom_arma> Sticky: the developers arnt trying to kill eachother   --you havn't been in irc long enough
01:26 <i2020> i need to find some enthusiastic players who are old enough to... use their wisdom... heheh
01:26 <madmax|pt> ... Smaller number of players per teams -> better organisation, better "showing up"
01:26 <Lackadaisical> like.. 5 people per team?
01:26 <madmax|pt> More teams, larger competition
01:26 <i2020> i find the young players are enthusiastic... but they really just don't have a clue... and they don't have the social skills most of them...
01:27 <Vanhayes> ya maybe put a cap at 10
01:27 <madmax|pt> yes Lack
01:27 <Sticky> i would suggest an automatic tournament system to some extent... if z-man and co would like to code it
01:27 <i2020> the game is perfect with 8
01:27 <Vanhayes> that way the 16 + teams that show up with 5 or 6 wont be happening
01:27 <i2020> ?
01:27 <i2020> sorry?
01:28 <i2020> an automatic system might work...
01:28 <i2020> and what do you mean van?
01:28 <Sticky> yeah with an ability to set the team list and each member log ing
01:29 <Sticky> after all if i were looking to realy screw over a tournament i would just go from server to server joining the game and messigna round
01:29 <Vanhayes> if you put a player cap, the teams with 16+ players that only show up with 5 or 6 on the day will chose more carefully on who will actually show up
01:30 <Vanhayes> on who to put on the team based on who will actually show up*
01:30 <madmax|pt> i think some clans just dump they're players names on the sign up lists just show they're "big"
01:30 <Vanhayes> ya like LOL this time
01:30 <Sticky> but also I was thinking a spectator mode.  not logging in individualy to the game server as that will lag the server.  the game server sends the play data to a second server that people can then log into to watch the game
01:31 <MaZuffeR> being "big" is a bad thing for a clan imo
01:31 <madmax|pt> exactly
01:31 <madmax|pt> smaller the team/clan, the better they get along
01:31 <MaZuffeR> yep
01:31 <Sticky> it would be a lot more interesting to watch a game if you could do it without taking up a player spot
01:32 <madmax|pt> Arma TV™
01:32 <i2020> your email bounced... mazuffer@mazuffer.com
01:32 <MaZuffeR> it did?
01:32 <i2020> nice idea sticky... mirror server
01:32 <Lackadaisical> you sent it to mazzufer@mazzufer.com
01:32 <MaZuffeR> mail to mazuffer@hotmail.com instead
01:32 <i2020> for spectators
01:32 <Sticky> yeah would make recording games easy too
01:33 <madmax|pt> its ArmaTV!
01:33 <MaZuffeR> i should change nick to one that's easier to spell...
01:34 <Vanhayes> heh at least its easier than wrtlprnft 
01:34 <i2020> hhehe
01:34 <madmax|pt> "Upcoming next.. the most awaited game in Armagetron's history... Right after this Ad."
01:34 <i2020> heheh
01:34 <i2020> ehhehehe
01:34 <i2020> i am working on the ad
01:35 <madmax|pt> remembers me on how much i wanted instant replays
01:35 <Sticky> thats not a bad idea
01:35 <i2020> quick question... on a scale of 1 to 10... how good do you think this fortress 8v8 is? lightcycles, zman's acceleration... the whole thing...?
01:35 <Sticky> if a 2nd server was doing it, it could handle a action replay
01:35 <Sticky> 8
01:36 <Lackadaisical> it kinda depends on who i am playing with/against
01:36 <madmax|pt> not sure, after all, Zman's settings are the... standard
01:36 <madmax|pt> fortress that is
01:36 <i2020> exactly.. he has a good sense of design...
01:37 <Sticky> the only problem i would have with the game is that the start is very formulaic and any deviation risks certain defeat
01:37 <i2020> he came up with te closer you get to awall the more you acelerate too
01:37 <Sticky> modifying it to allow a range of starting possiblities could help
01:37 <i2020> q?
01:37 <i2020> it is about organising yourself well
01:37 <i2020> it is a beautiful start
01:37 <madmax|pt> "Bugfarm fortress: with non-scary starting positions"
01:38 <i2020> high intensity.... approaching the opponents at break neck speed
01:38 <Sticky> yeah but the start is so set in stone that not doing it is a kicking offense
01:38 <i2020> not true... i just don't think we have had stable enough teams foer variations to evolve
01:38  * Lucifer_arma notes he went to 3-team fortress to see what happened to starting lineups
01:39 <i2020> it is like chess... there seem s to be only one or two openings at this point... but with time... i think players can come up with more
01:39 <Lucifer_arma> of course, there were other issues with the setup
01:39 <Sticky> also...MISSILES
01:39 <i2020> all thre player games are odd...
01:39 <madmax|pt> a new player always gets himself away of the center wall, i wish i could remember my first fortress game to know exactly what i thought
01:39 <i2020> gametheory.... very odd
01:39 <Lackadaisical> ever played fortress with missiles? it sucks
01:40 <Sticky> can you add missiles to armagetron??
--- Log closed Mon Sep 04 01:45:18 2006
--- Log opened Mon Sep 04 07:58:04 2006
07:58 -!- wrtlprnft [n=wrtlprnf@85.233.38.240] has joined #armagetron
07:58 -!- Irssi: #armagetron: Total of 20 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 20 normal]
07:58 -!- Irssi: Join to #armagetron was synced in 4 secs
07:58 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i need to adjust my cronjobs a bit...
07:59 <wrtlprnft> if the wlan connection drops for a while they hang, waiting for it to reappear, and stack, eating up all memory
07:59 <wrtlprnft> and killing my processes
08:04 <wrtlprnft> #last --with wrtlprnft --nolimit
08:04 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [01:35:03] <Vanhayes> heh at least its easier than wrtlprnft, [00:35:15] <ghableska> cu wrtlprnft, and [00:35:01] <madmax|pt> g'night wrtlprnft
08:07 <Your_mom_arma> #last --with wrtl --nolimit
08:07 <armabot> Your_mom_arma: [08:05:45] <wrtlprnft> #last --with wrtlprnft --nolimit, [06:25:55] <Your_mom_arma> is wrtl working on arma chat logs? or did i imagine that?, [01:35:03] <Vanhayes> heh at least its easier than wrtlprnft, [00:35:15] <ghableska> cu wrtlprnft, and [00:35:01] <madmax|pt> g'night wrtlprnft
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> Luke-Jr: I did "emerge pysqlite" and it failed.  Or something like that.  Trying to get sqlite for armabot awhile back
08:11 <Luke-Jr> oh, well maybe pysqlite is bugged
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> it failed on sqlite
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> which of course meant it couldn't do pysqlite, which has sqlite as a dependency
08:11 <Lucifer_arma> might have been a problem with a use flag, I don't know, didn't have any time to fool with it
08:12 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't matter, if the program's supposed to work with a default python install, then even a little dependency is out of the question
08:12 <wrtlprnft> Your_mom_arma: well, the chat logs are from my client
08:13 <wrtlprnft> so if it gets killed from lack of RAM the chatlogs won't work
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> and in some future version of python, they intend to bundle sqlite
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: I thought he meant for the game server
08:13 <Lucifer_arma> ack, this program is driving me nuts
08:13 <Your_mom_arma> and mabey client
08:14 <Luke-Jr> the nice thing with C/C++ is that you can static link stuff ;)
08:14 <wrtlprnft> which game server?
08:14 <Luke-Jr> Arma
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> armagetronad-dedicated
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> as opposed to, say, civserver :)
08:15 <wrtlprnft> and what am i supposed to log?
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> chat?
08:15  * wrtlprnft just woke up
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> ahhhhhhhh
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> basically, his question is his way of asking "wasn't wrtlprnft making arma logs more sensible?"
08:15 <Lucifer_arma> :)
08:16 <wrtlprnft> uh, was i?
08:16 <wrtlprnft> i added timestamps to scorelog.txt, that's about all i did with that
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> [23:26] <Lucifer_arma> you might have imagined that, heh
08:16 <Lucifer_arma> [23:26] <Lucifer_arma> we talked about it a bit, I don't know if anyone started on it
08:17 <wrtlprnft> oh, and i was suggesting a new format for ladderlog
08:17 <Lucifer_arma> and most of us jumped in to bitch about the current logging system (if you can call it that)
08:18 <Lucifer_arma> and we all agreed it was fucked up, and then I think the thread just sort of stopped
08:18 <Lucifer_arma> actually, the log isn't that bad, it's just locale-dependent
08:18 <wrtlprnft> like most threads do if they start to involve actual work
08:18 <Lucifer_arma> yeah :)
08:19 <wrtlprnft> well, shouldn't it be possible to parse it together with the language file?
08:19 <Luke-Jr> How?is?the?log?locale?dependent?
08:20  * Luke-Jr ponders if he likes the extra-wide spaces/dash/qmark
08:20 <wrtlprnft> ie read the language file and find the appropiate string, prefix it with “^”, postix it with “$” and replace “\[0-9]” by “(.*)”
08:20 <wrtlprnft> then use that as a regex
08:20 <Luke-Jr> o that
08:20  * wrtlprnft doesn't use extra-wide spaces
08:20 <wrtlprnft> err
08:20 <wrtlprnft> extra–wide ;)
08:20 <wrtlprnft> well, it's the correct use
08:21 <Luke-Jr> why?not?
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> only problem is there are hard-coded strings too we have to work on
08:21 <wrtlprnft> - is a minus sign, not a dash
08:21 <wrtlprnft> " is an inch–or–something sign, NOT a quote
08:21 <Luke-Jr> I used ?, not -
08:21 <Lucifer_arma> he was correcting himself?
08:21 <Luke-Jr> of course, that's not a dash either
08:21 <wrtlprnft> 08:20  * Luke-Jr ponders if he likes the extra-wide spaces/________dash___________/qmark
08:21  * Lucifer_arma inserts obligatory Luke-Jr-bash
08:22 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr should be named Luke–Jr anyways
08:22 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: `?'?is not a `-'
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> yes and no
08:22 <Luke-Jr> ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> they need to put a fucking em-dash on the keyboard
08:22 <wrtlprnft> i put one on mine
08:22 <wrtlprnft> –—
08:22 <Lucifer_arma> having to do weird shit to get a dash is dumb
08:23 <wrtlprnft> i have to press right alt+- to get a ndash
08:23 <wrtlprnft> i have to press right alt+shift+- to get a mdash
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> back in the days before we had all these anal typography people, we could use - for all of our dashing needs
08:23 <Luke-Jr> ??-
08:23 <wrtlprnft> …
08:23 <Lucifer_arma> now we have to do weird shit or get nit-picked
08:23  * wrtlprnft is just replying to Luke-Jr complaining about them
08:23 <Luke-Jr> ??-??
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> asdfasdfasdfasdf
08:24 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i only see ?
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't work for me
08:24 <Luke-Jr> who complined?
08:24 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: aww, you are lacking in fonts =p
08:24 <wrtlprnft> no, that's not the reason
08:24 <wrtlprnft> then i'd see those boxes
08:24  * Luke-Jr wonders why he has different dash-like widths when he's using a __fixed__-width font
08:24 <Lucifer_arma> that depends on the font and the client.  The boxes are only in ttf, iirc.  I'm getting question marks
08:24 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: well, you have to xmodmap those chars
08:24 <Luke-Jr> haha
08:24 <Luke-Jr>  Current charset: ANSI_X3.4-1968
08:24 <Luke-Jr> wtf
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> wrtlprnft: see?  that's weird shit!
08:25 <Luke-Jr> —ー-ー—
08:25 <wrtlprnft> NOW i'm getting boxes
08:25 <wrtlprnft> wd
08:25 <Lucifer_arma> yeah, me too
08:25  * Luke-Jr sets the default right
08:25 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: there's another option too
08:26 <wrtlprnft> bind the multi- key to something
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> how weird is it?
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> on a scale of 1 to 10, that is
08:26 <wrtlprnft> then press that key and --, to get a –
08:26 <wrtlprnft> no, --.
08:26 <Lucifer_arma> I have a better idea, but I can't do it.  Get keyboard makers to include the two dashes people use most and move the math symbols to a different place
08:27 <Luke-Jr> ☆☆☆ Lucifer_arma ☆☆☆
08:27 <wrtlprnft> x_X
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> I used to think _ was an em-dash, that's what it looks like anyway
08:27 <wrtlprnft> haha
08:27 <wrtlprnft> ≤≥≠=<>∈ math symbols ARE useful
08:27 <Luke-Jr> ☧
08:27 <Lucifer_arma> heh
08:27 <wrtlprnft> ∞
08:27  * Lucifer_arma always wanted more comprehensive math symbols, too
08:27 <Luke-Jr> that looks like a pig nose
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> it is a pig nose
08:28 <wrtlprnft> heh, i have all of those bound to keys :)
08:28 <Luke-Jr> add hex characters with math symbols
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> what's the limit as x goes up the pig's nose?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> ⅛⅜⅝⅞⅞½¼¬°
08:28 <Luke-Jr> ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡
08:28 <Lucifer_arma> Why can't we just have another shift key?  Like "useful shift" or something?
08:28 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: german keyboards do
08:28 <Luke-Jr> ☎
08:28 <wrtlprnft> it's the right alt key, callled Alt Gr
08:29 <Luke-Jr> Japanese kbs too
08:29 <Luke-Jr> but it's used for changing character set
08:29 <wrtlprnft> ő
08:29 <Luke-Jr> I have a useful-shift somewhere
08:29 <Lucifer_arma> there you go, quit giving the damn US keyboard and instead give us a keyboard for some language that needs accents, and use the accent shift on characters you don't accent to give us useful shit
08:29 <Luke-Jr> it makes my question mark flip
08:29 <wrtlprnft> and this keyboard has a huge load of deadkeys
08:29 <Luke-Jr> no idea what it is tho
08:30 <Luke-Jr> my right-alt works like my left-alt...
08:30 <wrtlprnft> óòőöọŏôå
08:30 <Lucifer_arma> besides, most people in america need some accents anyway.  There are words in English that should be accented...
08:30 <wrtlprnft> plus at least three more, but i can't find them
08:31 <wrtlprnft> ǫņ
08:31 <wrtlprnft> missing one
08:31 <wrtlprnft> abovedot
08:31 <wrtlprnft> ȯ there we go
08:31 <Luke-Jr> Ｇｏｏｄ　ｎｉｇｈｔ！
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> |_|  <--- another example of double-binding
08:32 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i read boxboxboxboxboxboxbox
08:32 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: your fonts suck >:O
08:32 <Lucifer_arma> how about emoticon keys?  yeah!
08:32  * Lucifer_arma explodes in a cloud of lameness
08:32 <Luke-Jr> ☹
08:33 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: well, dejavu sans mono has quite a few chars
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> er
08:33 <wrtlprnft> but you just can't mix monospaced fonts that ewell
08:33 <Lucifer_arma> luke owes me a monitor!  I thought that was a bug, so I hit it
08:33 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: obviously not nearly enough
08:33 <wrtlprnft> *well
08:33 <wrtlprnft> and japanese chars or whatever aren't that interesting to me
08:33 <Luke-Jr> they're normal English letters =p
08:33 <wrtlprnft> or good night :P
08:33 <Luke-Jr> from codepage 255
08:34 <wrtlprnft> in some weird spaced font
08:34 <Luke-Jr> table 255*
08:34 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, like I said
08:34 <Luke-Jr> g'night =p
08:35 <Lucifer_arma> holy shit, my a/c just turned off
08:35 <wrtlprnft> night
08:35 <wrtlprnft> actually this font SHOULD have these chars
08:35 <wrtlprnft> probably this konsole instance is older than the font :P
08:35 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: there we go, restarted konsole, now they appear
08:37  * wrtlprnft wonders how long it will take for deja_vu_ to turn up here and say <_< or something similar
08:37 <Lucifer_arma> don't you know deja_vu_ is a bot?
08:38 <wrtlprnft> hehe
08:38 <wrtlprnft> well, he obviosly gets waked by “dejavu”
08:38 <Lucifer_arma> why do cops have to make so much goddamned noise?
08:38 <wrtlprnft> or shall i say she?
08:39 <Lucifer_arma> he better be arresting those kids for all the fucking noise he's making
08:39  * Lucifer_arma is sitting in his back yard at his picnic table and there's a cop in the street behind him bugging some teenagers
08:41 <Lucifer_arma> yep, he's arresting them
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> I just heard the ratcheting noise that handcuffs make
08:42 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> they were probably smoking a joint or something and he pulled up
08:42 <Lucifer_arma> actually, if they're young enough they might be violating a curfew
08:43 <Lucifer_arma> don't know, we're out in the county and curfews are usually only done by cities
08:49 <wrtlprnft> ok, recording yesterday's matches to video :)
08:49 <wrtlprnft> still has the trouble with twice as many frames produced when the menus are activated
08:52 <Lucifer_arma> now they've got the other fucking cop out there flashing his lights
08:53 <Lucifer_arma> whiny kid just yelled "ow"
08:53 <wrtlprnft> o_O
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> cops aren't gentle with handcuffs
08:54 <Lucifer_arma> they're not being brutal, or there'd be a lot of noise, but they're not gentle either
08:55 <DrJoeTron> haha oh man
08:56 <Lucifer_arma> I think one of the kids' moms just showed up, I heard a loud woman talking
08:57 <wrtlprnft> maybe she was just complaining about the noise
08:57 <DrJoeTron> haha wrtlprnft 
08:57 <Lucifer_arma> it's not that loud, it's only bothersome if you're trying to program at your picnic table :)
08:58 <wrtlprnft> is there a way to losslessly cut a mpeg4 movie?
08:58 <Lucifer_arma> I think mplayer can do it
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> probably not, though.  Doesn't mpeg4 depend on previous frames?
08:59 <wrtlprnft> need to, this recording contains 5 minutes of trash in at the beginning
08:59 <wrtlprnft> maybe i should just hack arma to skip them
08:59 <Lucifer_arma> how is it doing the encoding?
08:59 <wrtlprnft> with --videoout
09:00 <wrtlprnft> piping screenshots into mplayer
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> I mean, is it piping it?
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> ah, ok.  Hmmm.......
09:00 <Your_mom_arma> i think its 16 frames per index note
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> doesn't mplayer have an option to skip some amount of junk?
09:00 <wrtlprnft> i'd need to know how much junk
09:00 <Lucifer_arma> if you used transcode, you could encode to dvi first, which is lossless, then edit in a number of programs, then output to something else
09:00 <wrtlprnft> i can't just look at the time and multiply it by 30
09:01 <Lucifer_arma> also, if you encode it to some high resolution, then cut it and rescale it down to a lower resolution, the loss shouldn't be noticeable
09:02 <wrtlprnft> maybe i should just pipe it into a file first
09:02 <wrtlprnft> then see what i can do with that
09:03 <Lucifer_arma> well, mplayer will let you skip something at the beginning and copy the stream, which afaik is lossless except for maybe a few affected frames
09:03 <wrtlprnft> you think 9.2GB is enough for an uncompressed file?
09:04 <wrtlprnft> also, how do i tell mencoder to encode to dvi?
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if mencoder can even handle dvi
09:05 <wrtlprnft> x_X
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> #google transcode
09:05 <armabot> Lucifer_arma: Search took 0.08 seconds: Transcode_Wiki: Transcode Wiki: <http://www.transcoding.org/>; Transcode_Wiki: Transcode FAQ: <http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?Transcode_FAQ>; freshmeat.net: Project details for transcode: <http://freshmeat.net/projects/transcode/>; Transcode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcode>; What is transcoding? - A Word (2 more messages)
09:05 <Lucifer_arma> one of the cops just left
09:06 <wrtlprnft> maybe i'll just hack arma :s
09:07 <wrtlprnft> to make a screenshot every frame
09:07 <Lucifer_arma> isn't that what it does?
09:07 <wrtlprnft> then i can decide what to do with them later
09:07 <wrtlprnft> just don't pipe them, save them as PNGs
09:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 640*480*3*3600*30
09:08 <armabot> 640 * 480 * 3 * 3,600 * 30 = 99,532,800,000
09:08 <wrtlprnft> #g 640*480*3*3600*30 bytes in GB
09:08 <armabot> 640 * 480 * 3 * 3,600 * (30 bytes) = 92.6971436 gigabytes
09:08 <wrtlprnft> errm
09:08 <wrtlprnft> that's a LOT
09:08 <wrtlprnft> i can't really save that in raw format
09:09 <wrtlprnft> #g 300*3600*30 kb in GB
09:09 <armabot> 300 * 3,600 * (30 kb) = 3.86238098 gigabytes
09:09 <wrtlprnft> better
09:09 <wrtlprnft> that's about what i'd get PNG- encoded
09:10 <Lucifer_arma> um, isn't that what it does now?  Or what?
09:11 <wrtlprnft> --videoout sends an uncompressed stream to stdout
09:11 <wrtlprnft> i wanna make it write PNG
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> http://lives.sourceforge.net/index.php?do=screenshots
09:18 <Lucifer_arma> Real time capture/recording of interactive (via mouseclicks) external windows  <--- :)
09:19 <Lucifer_arma> cp: cannot stat `.libs/cjpeg': No such file or directory  <--- I've been getting a lot of errors like this, wtf?
09:20 <wrtlprnft> no clue
09:20 <wrtlprnft> o great
09:20 <wrtlprnft> PNG encoding is REALLY slow
09:21 <wrtlprnft> o well, but it's probably the most useful format later :)
09:22 <Lucifer_arma> I'm disapointed by the number of gentoo packages that fail to install with an error like that
09:36 <Your_mom_arma> cya guys
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09:54 <Lucifer_arma> that's stupid
09:54 <Lucifer_arma> I fixed my -mcpu to -mtune and it's fixed it
09:54 <Lucifer_arma> :/
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10:32 <Lucifer_arma> I need some video
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12:43 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: need some video?
12:43 <wrtlprnft> what about watching the aw-b vas wpn match?
12:46 <deja_vu_> wrtlprnft: <_<
12:46 -!- deja_vu_ is now known as deja_vu
12:46 <wrtlprnft> haha
12:46 <wrtlprnft> i like the effect you get when loading a page with the new wiki skin
12:47 <wrtlprnft> you look at a loaded page, go to a link, then it turns white during loading, but you still see the lines burnt into your eyes briefly
13:17 <wrtlprnft> lol i have 6GB of screenshots of the aw-b vs wpn match now.
13:23 <Lucifer_arma> I made a video, but now I need it in a format cinelerra understands
13:23 <wrtlprnft> i need something able to handle 92261 images in the same dir :s
13:24 <wrtlprnft> kuickshow crashes
13:31 <wrtlprnft> #g 350*30
13:31 <armabot> 350 * 30 = 10,500
13:35 <wrtlprnft> frame 015649 is the first one
13:35 <wrtlprnft> writing it here so i don't forget
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> emerge cinelerra
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> then try this for a commandline:
13:36 <Lucifer_arma> armagetronad --videoout --playback test.aarec | mencoder - -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=640:h=480:format=rgb24:fps=11 -o aarec.avi -of avi -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mjpeg
13:37 <wrtlprnft> i'm not gonna play it back again
13:37 <wrtlprnft> now that i have screenshots of every frame i'll just use the images as input :P
13:37 <wrtlprnft> but thanks
13:37 <wrtlprnft> and my framerate is a fixed 30fps
13:37 <wrtlprnft> except in menus where it's 60 for some reason
13:39 <wrtlprnft> #g 92261-15649
13:39 <armabot> 92,261 - 15,649 = 76,612
13:39 <wrtlprnft> #g (92261-15649)/25
13:39 <armabot> (92,261 - 15,649) / 25 = 3,064.48
13:39 <wrtlprnft> #g (92261-15649)/30
13:39 <armabot> (92,261 - 15,649) / 30 = 2,553.73333
13:39 <wrtlprnft> #g (92261-15649)/30 seconds in minutes
13:39 <armabot> (92,261 - 15,649) / (30 arcseconds) = 1.81081699 * 10^(12) arcminutes
13:39 <wrtlprnft> wtf
13:40 <wrtlprnft> #g ((92261-15649)/30) seconds in minutes
13:40 <armabot> ((92,261 - 15,649) / 30) * seconds = 42.5622222 minutes
13:40 <wrtlprnft> gives 42 minutes of video
13:40  * wrtlprnft wonders if creating 76,612 hardlinks is a bad idea
13:45 <wrtlprnft> oh, wow. This is gonna take some time
13:46 <wrtlprnft> 23fps
13:47  * wrtlprnft slaps himself for storing all the images on his server
13:49 <Lucifer_arma> well, if you emerge cinelerra and spend a few minutes reading their docs, you can do what you want with it :)
13:49 <wrtlprnft> Lucifer_arma: mjpeg doesn't exactly seem to be a small format
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> probably isn't, heh
13:50 <wrtlprnft> nothing i can make available for download, anyways
13:50 <Lucifer_arma> rendering to something smaller right now
13:50 <wrtlprnft> 250MB already
13:50 <wrtlprnft> how long is your movie?
14:02 <wrtlprnft> #g 15694+30*600
14:02 <armabot> 15,694 + (30 * 600) = 33,694
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> 1.5MB
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> er
14:10 <Lucifer_arma> but umm, wait
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> 12MB
14:11 <Lucifer_arma> but it's only like 20 seconds
14:11 <wrtlprnft> yeah, well
14:11 <wrtlprnft> mine is 45 minutes
14:12 <wrtlprnft> i'll see if i can upload it to google video or youtube once i'm done
14:14 <wrtlprnft> it's at 650 seconds now, this can take a while
14:15 <wrtlprnft> > I thank you now to put the file on the SVN
14:15 <wrtlprnft> sounds funny, though he probably didn't mean it that way
14:16 <wrtlprnft> now PUT THE FILE ON SVN or i'll… ;)
14:33 <Lucifer_arma> I think that's a girl.  Isn't patrice a girl's name, even in france?
14:33 <wrtlprnft> dunno
14:44 <wrtlprnft> looks like the movie's gonna be around 250MB
14:46 <guru3> i've now got my very own DMM :D
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15:28 <wrtlprnft> grr, youtube seems to take forever to convert that movie...
16:05 -!- Vanhayes_ is now known as Vanhayes
16:51 <wrtlprnft> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb1Z9VU_Yco
16:51 <wrtlprnft> o_O
16:54 <wrtlprnft> and i just found a way to record arma with a total lack of framerate loss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLn0Y_DA8bc
16:54 <MaZuffeR> lol@bicycletron
16:55 <wrtlprnft> and it still didn't convert my ladle movie :(
16:56 <wrtlprnft> maybe it won't because it's actually got a length of 10 minutes + one frame
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18:11 <wrtlprnft> #later tell *joda* for your CGI:IRC interface, is it possible to set it up so you can join any channel that contains “arma”?
18:11 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
18:12 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-206-84.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #armagetron
18:15 <ghableska> hi madmax|pt
18:18 <madmax|pt> hello
18:20 <wrtlprnft> hi
18:21 <ghableska> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5311298.stm?ls <--- Hmm.
18:23 <wrtlprnft> does anyone know how i can mark a new page as patrolled if there have already been changes to it?
18:29 -!- [dlh] [n=[dlh]@a1103.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #armagetron
18:32 <madmax|pt> the quarter finals of the ladle were:  AW-B vs WPN, SL vs CT, and AW-A vs WS right?
18:32 <ghableska> yeah
18:37 <madmax|pt> what was the result on WS vs AW-A? 2-1 or 2-0 ?
18:39 <wrtlprnft> Did anyone of you ever upload a movie to youtube? If so, how long was it and how long did it take until it actually appeared on the site?
18:51 <wrtlprnft> ghableska: madmax|pt: Vanhayes: armabot: remind me to lock http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Ladle-4/Challenge_Board on October 1
18:51 <ghableska> ok
18:52 <ghableska> tronic monkeys?
18:52 <ghableska> O_o
18:52 <madmax|pt> ok
18:55 <wrtlprnft> who decided that AW is gonna form 7 teams?
18:55 <ghableska> ?
18:55 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Ladle-4/Team_List
18:56 <ghableska> hmm
18:56 <wrtlprnft> For example, anarchic wanderers players will each or in pairs, start up a new team.
18:56 <wrtlprnft> that makes at least 7 teams with 14 players
18:56 <ghableska> will play each other?
18:56 <ghableska> oh, nvm
19:00 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@bl4-206-84.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
19:01 -!- madmax|pt [n=madmax@81.193.20.226] has joined #armagetron
19:01 <madmax|pt> my phone wire which connects to my modem is loose
19:01 <madmax|pt> that's bad
19:01 <ghableska> O_O
19:03 <Luke-Jr> do dialup over voip =p\
19:06 -!- mad|test [n=51c114e2@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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19:10 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: what about voip over dialup over voip over dialup?
19:10 <Luke-Jr> that's guaranteed to not work =p
19:10 <wrtlprnft> why?
19:10 <Luke-Jr> voip over dialup uses GSM
19:11 <Luke-Jr> GSM can't carry modem frequencies
19:11 <wrtlprnft> grr
19:11 <wrtlprnft> unimportant technical problems
19:11 <Luke-Jr> =p
19:11 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
19:14 <wrtlprnft> lame, just two people downloaded my movie
19:14 <wrtlprnft> or at least started the download, dunno if they finished it
19:20 <madmax|pt> i could be both, i downloaded a bit through my browser, and another bit through wget
19:20 <madmax|pt> lol
19:20 <madmax|pt> thats a big file
19:22 -!- Nixda746 [n=55d40ba1@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
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19:28 <wrtlprnft> nah, two different IPs
19:29 <wrtlprnft> three times you, infact
19:29 <wrtlprnft> the other one is probably 2020
19:29 <MaZuffeR> i am downloading it atm
19:29 <wrtlprnft> ah
19:29 <madmax|pt> i restarted downloading it now
19:30 <wrtlprnft> good luck you two
19:30 <wrtlprnft> you'll get 40KB/s probably
19:30 <madmax|pt> theres probably two ip's of mine there, due to the phone wire issue
19:30 <madmax|pt> im getting 70
19:30 <wrtlprnft> o_O
19:31 <madmax|pt> hmm, between 50 and 70
19:31 <MaZuffeR> i can't check, my firefox is broken, no download manager
19:31 <wrtlprnft> well, it's a lame connection
19:31 <wrtlprnft> but i can't upload a file that big anywhere I know of
19:32 <Vanhayes> how big is it?
19:32 <[dlh]> google video won't take it?
19:32 <wrtlprnft> [dlh]: too big even for that
19:32 <wrtlprnft> ~250mb
19:32 <wrtlprnft> i uploaded the first ten minutes to youtube
19:32 <Vanhayes> hmm where can I download it?
19:32 <madmax|pt> you have the one of the final game too?
19:32 <wrtlprnft> but it's still processing it
19:32 <wrtlprnft> madmax|pt: i have a recording, no video yet
19:33 <wrtlprnft> i'll make one
19:33 <madmax|pt> ok, that was a nice game :)
19:33 <wrtlprnft> don't expect it to be available soon, it takes its time
19:33 <madmax|pt> Van http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/awbvswpn.avi
19:33 <wrtlprnft> anyone interested in the raw PNGs?
19:33 <wrtlprnft> 9GB
19:35 <[dlh]> can't you upload it to archive.org?
19:35 <Vanhayes> heh no thanks, thats a bit too much for me
19:35 <[dlh]> They accept user videos, right?
19:35 <wrtlprnft> uh, never seen that site
19:35 <[dlh]> Really?
19:35 <wrtlprnft> oh, i did
19:35 <[dlh]> They archive the internet :S
19:35 <wrtlprnft> by looking at it
19:35 <wrtlprnft> but just briefly
19:36 <wrtlprnft> uh, is there any catch with that site?
19:36 <wrtlprnft> or do they just have too much storage/bandwidth?
19:36 <[dlh]> No, everything is done with good intentions, no catches. The media must be in the public domain, though, I think
19:37 <wrtlprnft> o well, no problem with that
19:39 <wrtlprnft> Upload the highest quality file you have (for many formats the Archive will automatically create smaller files).
19:39 <wrtlprnft> they can't MEAN that?!
19:39 <wrtlprnft> the best quality file would be a 9GB tarball of PNGs
19:39 <[dlh]> heh
19:40 <wrtlprnft> well, i'll stick to the avi
19:43 <wrtlprnft> uh
19:43 <wrtlprnft> that ftp server contains 4 dirs
19:43 <wrtlprnft> 0
19:43 <wrtlprnft> 1
19:43 <wrtlprnft> 2
19:43 <wrtlprnft> 3
19:43 <wrtlprnft> 4
19:43 <wrtlprnft> no, not 4
19:44 <wrtlprnft> but all the others
19:50 <wrtlprnft> hmm, console FTP seems to work
19:53 <wrtlprnft> though it won't give me a report on how much of the upload it completed :(
19:55 <mkzelda> Is luke's aa ebuild that snags svn trunk still around?
19:57 <wrtlprnft> uh, i think so
19:58 <wrtlprnft> just don't ask me where
19:59 <wrtlprnft> 23:58 <[Xpert]DarkStar> grab it here: http://xpert-darkstar.is-a-geek.org/~pso/armagetronad-0.3.0.ebuild.tbz2
19:59 <wrtlprnft> dunno if that's it
19:59 <wrtlprnft> just greped my logs
20:11 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has joined #armagetron
20:13 <madmax|pt> hi Lack
20:13 <Lackadaisical> hi
20:13 <Lackadaisical> are you going to captain a team on the fourth ladle?
20:16 <wrtlprnft> dunno
20:16 <wrtlprnft> i don't wanna run around recruiting
20:17 <DrJoeTron> boo ladle
20:17 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:18 <DrJoeTron> i mean uh....
20:18 <DrJoeTron> "D
20:18 <Vanhayes> when is the next one?
20:18 <wrtlprnft> x_X
20:18 <wrtlprnft> there seem to be lots of people downloading the movie now
20:18 <Lackadaisical> first of october
20:18 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: RTFW, it's organized now :)
20:18 <Lackadaisical> you made a movie? of the matches yesterday? cool
20:19 <wrtlprnft> of the awbvswpn one
20:19 <wrtlprnft> the final match is in progress
20:19 <wrtlprnft> at stage 1, to be exact
20:19 <DrJoeTron> i wish there were tourneys for classic teamplay
20:19 <Lackadaisical> where can i download it?
20:19 <madmax|pt> http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/awbvswpn.avi
20:20 <wrtlprnft> x_X
20:20 <madmax|pt> o_O
20:20 <DrJoeTron> oh god
20:20 <wrtlprnft> i guess at the time i managed uploading it to archive.org everyone will have it
20:20 <Lackadaisical> how big is it?
20:20 <wrtlprnft> 250MB
20:20 <wrtlprnft> *managed to upload it
20:21 <wrtlprnft> 250MB over a 80KB/s connection with approximately 3 people downloading it at the same time
20:21 <Lackadaisical> guess ill wait till you put it on archive.org
20:22 <wrtlprnft> thanks :)
20:22 <wrtlprnft> 9% complete
20:22 <wrtlprnft> i uploaded the first 10 minutes to youtube, but it didn't convert it yet
20:25 <mkzelda> oh shit i just remembered the ladle
20:26 <mkzelda> heh
20:26 <mkzelda> guess i missed that
20:26 <mkzelda> and i was here, playing freeciv
20:27 <wrtlprnft> haha
20:27 <wrtlprnft> hope you had a fun game
20:27 <mkzelda> no im terrible
20:27 <wrtlprnft> next one is on october 1st
20:27 <mkzelda> i dont understand a lot of things about it
20:27 <wrtlprnft> i do understand it, but that doesn't make me better
20:27 <wrtlprnft> i'm too peaceful
20:27 <mkzelda> same here
20:28 <Vanhayes> I attack everyone
20:28 <mkzelda> ive gotten to where im fast enuf that the historian publishes me as the richest/largest/happiest/advanced
20:28 <mkzelda> but, military... no
20:28 <wrtlprnft> i only build diplomats
20:28 <mkzelda> heh
20:28 <wrtlprnft> they don't have upkeep
20:28 <mkzelda> ive started liking them
20:28 <wrtlprnft> but if you actually use them they get expensive
20:29 <wrtlprnft> so you need lots of money
20:29 <Vanhayes> ya in the end if its player vs player the only thing that really matters is military
20:29 <mkzelda> i cant figure out some things like why some of my cities dont produce anything
20:29 <wrtlprnft> well, if you have a good defense and economy you can go to alpha centauri :P
20:29 <Vanhayes> that has to do with where you place them
20:29 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: that's shield points
20:30 <mkzelda> ya, and i place next them next to fish and buffalo n stuff
20:30 <mkzelda> but im always out food, even w/ the pyramids
20:30 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: heh ya but that only works if your enemy is doing the same thing
20:30 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: if your city has to keep up lots of units it will produce less
20:30 <wrtlprnft> like settlers/workers/military stuff
20:30 <mkzelda> so, if i change a unit's home city?
20:30 <mkzelda> it will be okay?
20:30 <Vanhayes> ya the govt. has to do with that too
20:30 <wrtlprnft> they'll use that city's production points
20:31 <mkzelda> ya, and every time i get democracy it wont last more than a few rounds
20:31 <mkzelda> b4 they revolt
20:31 <wrtlprnft> oh
20:31 <wrtlprnft> you need to keep your people happy
20:31 <Vanhayes> democracy is only good for science
20:31 <mkzelda> ya
20:31 <wrtlprnft> a city revolting two consecutive turns causes anarchy
20:31 <Vanhayes> communism is best for war
20:31 <wrtlprnft> increase luxury or give more citisens jobs
20:32 <mkzelda> im terrible w/ alliances too
20:32 <wrtlprnft> you need at least as many happy people as unhappy ones
20:32 <mkzelda> b/c i played a game where i denied everyone and then they said 'your hostile acts have led to war'
20:32 <mkzelda> but i hadnt produced any units that could attack
20:34 <mkzelda> one computer allied me and then attacked me a few turns later
20:34 <mkzelda> and sometimes it says im allied w/ people i totally havent accepted it
20:35 <wrtlprnft> fact is, the AI does have a big advantage on island games
20:35 <wrtlprnft> it already knows which squares are land and which are water from the beginning
20:35 <wrtlprnft> so they can colonize everything with triremes
20:35 <mkzelda> oh im playing an island game and its the first time i can survive
20:35 <mkzelda> oh i was gonna ask how to do that
20:35 <mkzelda> what is the difference between fortify and sentry too?
20:36 <wrtlprnft> uh
20:36 <wrtlprnft> fortify gives you 50% defense bonus
20:36 <wrtlprnft> but you need free movement points
20:37 <wrtlprnft> sentry gives you nothing
20:37 <wrtlprnft> they just stay where they are and don't ask for instructions
20:37 <mkzelda> ok
20:37 <wrtlprnft> but they will as soon as they see an enemy unit
20:37 <mkzelda> is there a way to make units defend you?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> ?
20:37 <wrtlprnft> put them in cities
20:37 <mkzelda> cause my units just watch me die
20:38 <mkzelda> w/ fortify?
20:38 <wrtlprnft> i think you just need to put them on the city square
20:39 <wrtlprnft> umm, and cities on rivers are harder to attack
20:43  * spidey yawbs
20:43  * spidey yawbs
20:43 <spidey> bah
20:45 <mkzelda> so how do i get units to other islands?
20:45 <spidey> ships?
20:45 <mkzelda> which kind?
20:45 <spidey> transport
20:45 <mkzelda> thats what its called?
20:45 <spidey> well
20:46 <spidey> they differ from different ages
20:46  * madmax|pt pokes spidey 
20:46 <spidey> max :)
20:46 <spidey> man
20:46 <spidey> i just got home
20:46 <wrtlprnft> bad.
20:46 <spidey> and haven't ate in 28+ hours -_-
20:46 <mkzelda> i have caravel and ironclad atm
20:46 <spidey> caravel
20:46 <mkzelda> how do i load them into it
20:47 <wrtlprnft> put the ship next to a land square
20:47 <spidey> click the unit press "G" then click the ship
20:47 <wrtlprnft> then move the unit onto the ship
20:47 <mkzelda> oh
20:47 <wrtlprnft> then move the ship away
20:47 <mkzelda> i swear ive tried that
20:48 <mkzelda> then i decided that that was just an explorer for water
20:48 <wrtlprnft> nah
20:48 <wrtlprnft> even triremes can carry people
20:48 <mkzelda> do ironclad attack anything?
20:49 <wrtlprnft> sure
20:49 <wrtlprnft> other ships
20:49 <mkzelda> ah
20:49 <mkzelda> and how do i do that?
20:49 <mkzelda> :D
20:49 <wrtlprnft> well
20:49 <wrtlprnft> just move your ship onto the other ship?
20:50 <mkzelda> can anything attack cities from sea?
20:50 <Vanhayes> any attack ship
20:50 <Vanhayes> but they cant take over a city
20:51 <wrtlprnft> unless someone's on them
20:51 <mkzelda> this game requires too much learning :D
20:52 <mkzelda> i tried reading some walkthroughs and they're tough reads
20:52 <Vanhayes> you can pick it up by playing pretty quickly I found
20:52 <wrtlprnft> http://www.freeciv.org/index.php/Game_Manual
20:52 <mkzelda> I usually do this unless the computer does this and then i do this but then the computer does this so i have to do this before i got to do this when i really wanted to do this but then the computer does this
21:02 <mkzelda> how many cities do u usually build?
21:02 <wrtlprnft> less than 12
21:02 <mkzelda> why?
21:02 <spidey> i build 5-7
21:02 <wrtlprnft> gives you more content citisens
21:02 <spidey> then rapture
21:03 <spidey> no
21:03 <mkzelda> oh, maybe thats why all mine are pissed
21:03 <mkzelda> ive got 15
21:03 <spidey> city size has to do with content citizens unless you use monarchy
21:03 <spidey> not amount of cities,unless that D government or monarchy
21:03 <wrtlprnft> spidey: no
21:03 <spidey> wrtlprnft, yes
21:04 <mkzelda> ya ive got a monarchy atm cause its the only one thats stable for me
21:04 <spidey> Marco, communism
21:04 <wrtlprnft> if you have less than a certain amount of cities you get 4 content citisens, the rest are unhappy
21:04 <spidey> 'er
21:04 <wrtlprnft> if you have more than a certain amount of cities you get 3 content citisens, the rest are unhappy
21:04 <Marco> ?
21:04 <spidey> mkzelda, communism :p
21:04 <Marco> :D
21:04 <spidey> ......
21:04 <wrtlprnft> ………………………………………………
21:04 <spidey> i've never had that problem
21:04 <mkzelda> what do you have to research for space race?
21:05 <wrtlprnft> uh, different things
21:05 <wrtlprnft> plastics
21:05 <wrtlprnft> is one of them
21:05 <wrtlprnft> space flight you need for apollo program
21:05 <wrtlprnft> then someone has to build that wonder
21:06 <wrtlprnft> then you can build space components
21:06 <wrtlprnft> you need superconductors for space modules
21:06 <wrtlprnft> errr
21:06 <wrtlprnft> apollo program gives you space structurals
21:06 <wrtlprnft> plastics gives you space components
21:07 <wrtlprnft> and superconductors give you space modules
21:07 <wrtlprnft> you need all three
21:12 <madmax|pt> some dicks @ shrunkland
21:12 <madmax|pt> that's happening a bit often
21:12 <madmax|pt> so spidey, did you delete tron?
21:13 <spidey> ....
21:14 <madmax|pt> ...
21:15 <Lackadaisical> why is alex saying to everyone he won the ladle?
21:15 <spidey> what's today?
21:15 <spidey> oh,nvm
21:15 <spidey> i missed the ladle :(
21:15 <mkzelda> ya me too
21:16 <mkzelda> cause i was playing freeciv
21:16 <deja_vu> hey spidey :)
21:16 <spidey> i was at my cousins house
21:16 <spidey> like 15 people in a house that shouldn't have more than 7
21:16 <spidey> i be damned if i goto a party in a house that small again!
21:20 <spidey> deja_vu, 
21:22 <spidey> steve irwin bit the dust o.o
21:24 <mkzelda> how do i honor a joint compaign against someone
21:24 <mkzelda> cause i've been attacking the person im supposed to attack
21:24 <mkzelda> but the ai keeps getting mad saying im not holding up my end
21:24 <spidey> don't ally with a AI
21:24 <Vanhayes> the ai makes sense barely half the time
21:24 <spidey> bad idea :p
21:24 <Vanhayes> he will eventually turn on you
21:25 <mkzelda> ya i had one do that 2 turns later
21:28 <spidey> DrJoeTron, 
21:30 <mkzelda> how do i create an embassy and how does it help?
21:30 <spidey> bbl, moving computer and stuff to another room
21:31 <wrtlprnft> mkzelda: you have to have had contact with that civilisation
21:31 <wrtlprnft> then you can make it part of a treaty
21:31 <mkzelda> yea, i did that
21:31 <wrtlprnft> or build marko polo's embassy
21:31 <mkzelda> i can create one in russia
21:31 <mkzelda> oh i almost have that done
21:31 <wrtlprnft> and it makes available some information about that other culture
21:31 <wrtlprnft> like what techs they have
21:33 <mkzelda> are wonders available only to the first to build them, or are only some of them like that?
21:33 <wrtlprnft> all of them
21:33 <Vanhayes> it also shows how much money they have, what govt. they are using, and what they are currently researching
21:33 <mkzelda> so its like having diplomats everywhere
21:33 <mkzelda> the marco polo
21:33 <wrtlprnft> the first civ who builds it blocks all others
21:34 <mkzelda> i have all but one of them
21:34 <mkzelda> i mean, of the ones built
21:34 <mkzelda> i keep buying the ones the ocmputer is working on
21:34 <wrtlprnft> haha
21:35 <mkzelda> im working on the statue of liberty in new york
21:35 <mkzelda> just kinda worked out like that
21:35 <wrtlprnft> heh
21:35 <wrtlprnft> video recording takes forever
21:35 <wrtlprnft> just recorded the first 2 matches
21:35 <wrtlprnft> now i need the 3rd
21:36 <mkzelda> can i repair my ironclads?
21:36 <wrtlprnft> sure
21:36 <wrtlprnft> put them in a city
21:36 <wrtlprnft> and let them sit there for a few rounds
21:36 <mkzelda> good deal
21:37 <mkzelda> ive gotten 100 questions answered
21:37 <mkzelda> thanks
21:37 <wrtlprnft> yw
21:37 <mkzelda> finding all of it individually would have taken some time
21:37 <wrtlprnft> uh
21:37 <wrtlprnft> just read the manual :P
21:37 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-003-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
21:37 <wrtlprnft> that's what i did
21:37 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: hi, say something
21:38 <mkzelda> i have, as well as faqs and forums
21:38 <joda_bot> HI
21:38 <joda_bot> wops
21:38 <mkzelda> but its hard to make sense of it out of context
21:38 <wrtlprnft> just wanted you to get that #message
21:38 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I'll have a look
21:38 <wrtlprnft> ty
21:39 <wrtlprnft> whoever still downloaded the movie either aborted or finished
21:39 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I've encountered some (for me) difficult problems while compiling trunk
21:40 <wrtlprnft> they're probably not related to me :s
21:40 <wrtlprnft> ask Luke-Jr
21:40 <wrtlprnft> but sure, i'll help you if i can
21:44 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
21:44 <ghableska> hello
21:46 <wrtlprnft> wb
21:46 <ghableska> thx
21:47 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: let me update to the latest build
21:49 -!- joda_web [n=543d0394@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #armagetron
21:50 <joda_web> wrtprnft: you should now be able to access any "arma" channel
21:51 <wrtlprnft> :)
21:51 <Luke-Jr> ...
21:51  * Luke-Jr blames Lucifer_arma 
21:52 <joda_bot> Ok, I guess I've to read much posts some day ...
21:52 <joda_bot> been to busy to check the forums lately
21:52 <joda_bot> Did Sty join dev ? ;)
21:52 <wrtlprnft> no
21:52 <Luke-Jr> you mean pig? =p
21:52 <joda_bot> Looks like it would be a good idea, to atleast give him a branch to put his code into
21:53 <joda_bot> Would be bad if the capture the flag stuff just remains at demo level
21:54 -!- me435 [n=luke@217.170.53.17] has joined #armagetron
21:54 <me435> hi
21:54 <me435> bye
21:54 -!- me435 [n=luke@217.170.53.17] has left #armagetron []
21:54 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: yes, right ... sty is the shooting mode right ? ... and pig is the developer ;)
21:54 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: no, sty is his server =p
21:54 <joda_bot> He told me to read some thread on armagetronad.net forums, but I've not seen it last time 
21:54 <joda_bot> oh ah
21:55 <Luke-Jr> 8 players is too few for CTF
21:55 <wrtlprnft> uh, the server is full right now
21:55 <wrtlprnft> and pig can't host more
21:55 <Luke-Jr> it's always full
21:55 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: well, host it on your server :P
21:55 <Luke-Jr> pig won't get a dedicated server cuz he doesn't have time to admin it
21:55 <Luke-Jr> so someone should step up to admin for him
21:56 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: I offered him a discount =p
21:56 <Luke-Jr> but he said he doesn't have the time to admin it
21:57 <wrtlprnft> [dlh]: http://www.archive.org/details/tronic_ladle_3_awb_vs_wpn
21:58 <ghableska> heh
22:00 <wrtlprnft> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Template:WPN
22:00 <wrtlprnft> omg
22:00 <wrtlprnft> we don't need a template for every clan!
22:00 -!- racingmasterweb [n=racingma@217.170.53.17] has joined #armagetron
22:00 <Luke-Jr> ROFL
22:00 <ghableska> ...
22:00 <Luke-Jr> racingmasterweb: that's a long name you've got there
22:00 <racingmasterweb> yes it is
22:01 -!- joda_web [n=543d0394@h10487.serverkompetenz.net] has left #armagetron []
22:01 <Luke-Jr> wouldn't "-ct-Kyle" be better? ;p
22:01 <wrtlprnft> uh
22:02 <wrtlprnft> a nick can't start with -
22:02 <Luke-Jr> why not?
22:02 <Luke-Jr> it can start with [
22:02 <Luke-Jr> oh well
22:02 <Luke-Jr> "ct-kyle" =p
22:02 <wrtlprnft> well, maybe it can
22:02 <wrtlprnft> 22:02 -!- -asdf Erroneous Nickname
22:02 <joda_bot> kyle: got any luck building with code blocs ?
22:02 <Lackadaisical> only.. 2 and half hours left till the movie has been downloaded
22:02 <joda_bot> Lack ?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> Lackadaisical: x_X
22:03 <joda_bot> hi Lackadaisical ;)
22:03 <Lackadaisical> hi :)
22:03 <wrtlprnft> Lackadaisical: give me better webspace :P
22:03 <Lackadaisical> how long is the movie?
22:04 <Luke-Jr> ...
22:04 <Lackadaisical> i'm not supposed to ask that?
22:04 <wrtlprnft> some 45 minutes
22:04 <joda_bot> Lackadaisical: I'm catching up ;)
22:04 <wrtlprnft> the awvsaw one is gonna be even bigger
22:05 <wrtlprnft> still recording btw
22:06 <racingmasterweb> jada_bot no i still have not tried too hard though
22:07 <joda_bot> jada jada joda jada jada ... from which movie is this jada jada jada ?
22:07 <joda_bot> The Nanny ?
22:07 <joda_bot> hm, no cle
22:07 <joda_bot> clue
22:08 -!- racingmasterweb [n=racingma@217.170.53.17] has left #armagetron []
22:09 <wrtlprnft> ok, the recording is going into its last round now
22:09 <ghableska> :D
22:09 <wrtlprnft> Vanhayes: the last round of the last match, did you die on prpose?
22:10 <wrtlprnft> someone from aw-a said, “if you suck hit a wall”
22:10 <wrtlprnft> and you promptly did
22:10 <ghableska> hehe
22:11 <wrtlprnft> 96-92
22:11 <wrtlprnft> exciting
22:11 <wrtlprnft> now the yellow zone is spinning
22:11 <Lackadaisical> spinning hard
22:11 <wrtlprnft> now 2 ppl died
22:12 <wrtlprnft> and gold WON!
22:12  * ghableska died
22:12 <wrtlprnft> now i need to find the first frame of actual play
22:12 <wrtlprnft> then i need to render the movie
22:12 <wrtlprnft> then upload it
22:13 <wrtlprnft> 103325 frames
22:14 <joda_bot> render the movie O.o
22:14 <wrtlprnft> captured to PNG at about 14FPS
22:14 <joda_bot> ui ...
22:14 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: that's gonna take just as long
22:14 <wrtlprnft> the movie's gonna have 30fps
22:15 <wrtlprnft> #g (103325 / 30) seconds in minutes
22:15 <armabot> (103,325 / 30) * seconds = 57.4027778 minutes
22:15 <wrtlprnft> there's a few minutes i'm gonna delete at the beginning
22:16 <wrtlprnft> 6.8GB of PNGs
22:16 <ghableska> O_O
22:17 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: ... --videoout
22:17 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i know
22:18 <wrtlprnft> but i can't cut away the beginning like that
22:18 <Luke-Jr> why not?
22:18 <wrtlprnft> without reencoding the whole thing
22:18 <Luke-Jr> ...
22:18 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: Ready for some mingw bug fixing ?
22:18 <wrtlprnft> so i hacked arma to make a screenshot every frame
22:18 <Luke-Jr> use scene detection
22:18 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: nope!
22:18 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: type/value mismatch at argument 2 in template parameter list for `template<class T, T (*F)()> class vValue::Expr::Bindings::CFunction::fZeroary'
22:18 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error:   expected a constant of type `T (*)()', got `void'
22:18 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Random' with no type
22:18 <joda_bot> Process terminated with status 1 (0 minutes, 14 seconds)
22:18 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: that's what --videoout does
22:18 <joda_bot> There you go ;)
22:18 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i KNOW
22:19 <wrtlprnft> but it makes a real screenshot and saves it to PNG
22:19 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: upgrade mingw?
22:19 <joda_bot> eh ?
22:19 <joda_bot> sure ?
22:19 <wrtlprnft> infact i hacked --videoout itself
22:19 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: so what's wrong with --videoout again? =p
22:19 <joda_bot> I'm not positive it's a bug in mingw ;)
22:19 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: works for everyone else
22:19 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: can't easily edit the result without loss of quality
22:19 <joda_bot> ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Random' with no type
22:20 <joda_bot> typedef Bindings::CFunction::fZeroary<long int, void> Random;
22:20 <joda_bot> That's the line that causes it
22:21 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: why not?
22:22 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: well, cutting should be no problem anyway...
22:22 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: it obviously has a type...
22:22 <wrtlprnft> first actual gameplay frame is 019391.png
22:23 <wrtlprnft> just for me to remember ;)
22:23 <Luke-Jr> erm, wait a sec
22:23 <Luke-Jr> that line doesn't look right
22:23 <wrtlprnft> hard enough to find
22:23 <Luke-Jr> typedef Bindings::CFunction::fZeroary<long int, random> Random;
22:23 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: don't know where you got your sources...
22:24 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: -vc copy
22:24 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: anyways, my way works and gives me some high- quality images
22:24 <wrtlprnft> though i have no effective way to distribute them
22:24 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: you can get HQ images by not compressing or using a lossless codec
22:25 <Luke-Jr> and a much easier time playing the video
22:25 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: i am going to convert it to mpeg4
22:25 <wrtlprnft> just like i did with the last one
22:25 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: again, use -vc copy to cut already-compressed stuff
22:25 <wrtlprnft> for what advantage?
22:26 <Luke-Jr> no quality loss by the cut
22:26 <wrtlprnft> i'd rather have files that are <2GB
22:26 <wrtlprnft> for i'm having them on a seperate machine via NFS
22:26 <Luke-Jr> MPEG-4 files are usually < 2gb
22:26 <wrtlprnft> an uncompressed movie file is waaay bigger
22:26 <Luke-Jr> that's why you compress while you render...
22:27 <wrtlprnft> then i won't have my high- quality files
22:27 <wrtlprnft> #last --with .png
22:27 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [22:24:03] <wrtlprnft> first actual gameplay frame is 019391.png
22:27 <Luke-Jr> ...
22:28 <wrtlprnft> starting encoding the video now
22:29 <wrtlprnft> after i used a very inefficient way to remove excess frames
22:29 <wrtlprnft> rm 00* 01[0-8]? 019[0-2]* 0193[0-8*] 019390*
22:30  * wrtlprnft waits for luke to tell him how to do that waaay better
22:30 <wrtlprnft> getting 18fps
22:31 <Luke-Jr> 0{0*,1{{0..8}*,9{1*,2*,3{{1..8}*,9{0..1}}}}}
22:31 <Luke-Jr> =p
22:31 <wrtlprnft> #g ((103325-19391)/18) seconds in minutes
22:31 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: o well
22:31 <armabot> ((103,325 - 19,391) / 18) * seconds = 77.7166667 minutes
22:31 <wrtlprnft> so come back in 1 hour 17 minutes
22:32 <Luke-Jr> I'd liek to render w/o X =p
22:32 <Luke-Jr> so I can have hachi do it
22:32 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: did you remember to set res & quality to max?
22:32 <Luke-Jr> when you rendered
22:32 <wrtlprnft> -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vhq
22:33 <wrtlprnft> when getting the pngs i used 640×480 with my usual options
22:33 <wrtlprnft> make a better video if you like
22:33 -!- wejp [n=j@i577BAC7B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:33 <Luke-Jr> boo =p
22:33  * Luke-Jr would do like 1280x1024 w/ max details
22:33 <wrtlprnft> uh
22:34 <wrtlprnft> i probably can't even store that much data
22:34 <spidey> man
22:34 <Luke-Jr> lol
22:34 <Luke-Jr> not uncompressed, no
22:34 <spidey> noone in this house better call me a slob again
22:34 <Luke-Jr> I use a pipe
22:34 <wrtlprnft> and scaling it down means quality loss
22:34 <ghableska> hi spidey :D
22:34 <Luke-Jr> I don't scale it down =p
22:34 <Luke-Jr> but what is really needed for rendering is
22:34 <spidey> i'm cleaning my brothers old room so i can move in there, i've spent 40minutes sweeping the wood floor, a big pile in the middle plus alot's left
22:34 <ghableska> wow
22:34 <Luke-Jr> playing server recordings on the client
22:34 <spidey> it would take me 10minutes to clean my whole room!!!
22:35 <Luke-Jr> and rendering smart cam on every cycle
22:35 <spidey> that doesn't include untangling wires and sorting them out though
22:35 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with youtube
22:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [20:23:50] <wrtlprnft> i uploaded the first 10 minutes to youtube, but it didn't convert it yet
22:35 <spidey> that'd take a hour or two
22:35 <wrtlprnft> #last --from wrtlprnft --with youtube --with http --nolimit
22:35 <armabot> wrtlprnft: [16:55:23] <wrtlprnft> and i just found a way to record arma with a total lack of framerate loss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLn0Y_DA8bc and [16:52:51] <wrtlprnft> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb1Z9VU_Yco
22:35 <DrJoeTron> spidey, 
22:35 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb1Z9VU_Yco
22:35 <DrJoeTron> spidey :p
22:35 <wrtlprnft> that's how you record tron without X11
22:36 <Luke-Jr> or better yet, take recordings from all the players in combination with the server, and render server's-view (lagless etc) of all the player's views
22:36 -!- wejp [n=j@i577B8A0C.versanet.de] has joined #armagetron
22:36 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: spare me the youtube nonsense?　；）
22:37  * ghableska is seeing strange characters
22:37 <spidey> DrJoeTron, you kicked me from teamspeak while i was gone :(
22:37 <spidey> now i can't conenct :s
22:37 <DrJoeTron> really?
22:37 <Luke-Jr> ツ
22:37 <DrJoeTron> you should be able to
22:38 <spidey> it said there wasn't a server running there
22:38 <Luke-Jr> spidey: should I write an open source clone of teamspeak?
22:38 <spidey> Luke-Jr, if it's compatible with teamspeak i'll use it
22:38 <DrJoeTron> maybe you're typing something wrog
22:38 <spidey> but i think there's source to teamspeak isn't there?
22:38 <spidey> DrJoeTron, cache bish!
22:38 <Luke-Jr> spidey: no
22:39 <DrJoeTron> well you werent banned
22:39 <DrJoeTron> so i dont know what to tell you
22:39 <Luke-Jr> I do
22:39 <Luke-Jr> spidey: you're being DDoS again
22:39 <Luke-Jr> =p
22:39 <spidey> ....
22:39 <wrtlprnft> what's your IP spidey? I wanna help them!
22:39 <Luke-Jr> lol
22:39 <wrtlprnft> ah, your server?
22:39 <DrJoeTron> im having troubles with the master servers :/
22:40 <wrtlprnft> oh, i am already
22:40 <wrtlprnft> i'm polling his server every minute
22:40 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: hopefully not with master 3
22:40 <Luke-Jr> use ping -f
22:40 <DrJoeTron> im not sure
22:40 <spidey> http://forum.goteamspeak.com/archive/index.php/t-372.html
22:40 <spidey> they make a good point of why not to make it open source
22:40 <DrJoeTron> i think its just with 1
22:40 <Luke-Jr> no they don't
22:41 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr:  The was from trunk I'll check if it differes
22:41 <Luke-Jr> because there is no good point in existence
22:41 <Luke-Jr> that was one of the threads that made me want to write it just to spite them
22:41 <spidey> but to answer your question.. we aren't going open source because simply put we do not want the coörperations like GameVoice/Microsoft and RogerWilco/GameSpy to steal our code.
22:41 <spidey> It is almost impossible to detect it if they rip off code, and its almost impossible to fight it in court due to the legal cost involved..
22:41 <spidey> good enough for me
22:41 <Luke-Jr> it's called GPL
22:41 <Luke-Jr> they can't steal it if you use GPL
22:41 <spidey> they can't?
22:41 <spidey> how would you know?
22:42 <spidey> if they compile it and don't release the source, you wouldn't know
22:42 <Luke-Jr> and what's it matter if the TeamSpeak developers themselves ARE BEING JUST AS BAD?
22:42 <Luke-Jr> you would
22:42 <wrtlprnft> spidey: there were cases where it did come out
22:42 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Some old Family Guy excerp ... http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/FGTron.avi
22:42 <wrtlprnft> you can compare the binaries, and you can search for eastereggs
22:42 <DrJoeTron> im having problems with master 4
22:42 <Luke-Jr> CherryOS? Linksys?
22:43 <wrtlprnft> good.
22:43 <spidey> cherryos?
22:43 <joda_bot> just remembered it, while you've been talking about movies ;)
22:43 <wrtlprnft> then complain to its admin
22:43 <spidey> i was gonna use that along time ago
22:43 <spidey> what is it? :s
22:43 <DrJoeTron> dont know who it is
22:43 <Luke-Jr> spidey: illegal ripoff of PearPC
22:43 <spidey> any good?
22:43 <Luke-Jr> no better than PearPC
22:43 <spidey> wtf's pearpc
22:43 <Luke-Jr> PowerPC emulator
22:44 <spidey> oh
22:44 <DrJoeTron> wrtlprnft who is the admin for server 4
22:44 <Luke-Jr> DrJoeTron: spidey is
22:44 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: uh, dunno, second
22:44 <spidey> ??
22:44 <Luke-Jr> DDoS him for revenge
22:44 <wrtlprnft> ah, Luke-Jr's right
22:44 <spidey> ....
22:45 <spidey> wtf you on about
22:45 <DrJoeTron> haha
22:45 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: it resolves to something in mxii.com
22:45 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: that would be iF
22:45 <joda_bot> Then it's iF ;)
22:45 <DrJoeTron> ah
22:45 <Luke-Jr> who the heck is iF?
22:46 <spidey> who the heck is Luke-Jr 
22:46 <DrJoeTron> armabell guy
22:46 <joda_bot> Lackadaisical: finish downloading :-P
22:46 <Lackadaisical> 1 hour and 36 minutes to go
22:46 <spidey> armabell stopped working for me
22:46 <DrJoeTron> i never used it
22:46 <spidey> said i needed to update, but there's no update last i checked
22:47 <Luke-Jr> use armaspy
22:47 <spidey> linux?
22:47 <Luke-Jr> that's the update
22:47 <Luke-Jr> wrtl wrote it
22:47 <spidey> is there a windows oprt?
22:47 <spidey> port*
22:47 <Luke-Jr> nope!
22:47 <spidey> then no :)
22:47 <spidey> not till i get my server back
22:47 <joda_bot> Lackadaisical: but my mplayer classic won't play it
22:47 <spidey> which i'm not sure when that's gonna be :/
22:48 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: Where do I get a windows codec for FM4p or whatever it is ?
22:48 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: you mean MPC or Media Player Classic =p
22:48 <Luke-Jr> mplayer = mplayer =p
22:48 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: yea
22:48 <DrJoeTron> there a way to connect to a different master server?
22:48 <joda_bot> :-)
22:48 <joda_bot> edit the mastersrv.list
22:48 <joda_bot> there should be some file for that
22:49 <wrtlprnft> uh
22:49 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: http://google.com/search?btnI=I&q=ffmpeg+windows+codec
22:49 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: it's master.srv
22:49 <DrJoeTron> yeah i see it
22:49  * wrtlprnft edited it
22:49 <wrtlprnft> so it only connects to master3 now
22:50 <wrtlprnft> that way i immediately see if something's messed up
22:50 <Luke-Jr> like I said some months ago, feel free to setup a master server on hachi =p
22:50 <wrtlprnft> uh, we don't have a master5?
22:51 <wrtlprnft> always thought we did
22:52 <wrtlprnft> apparently one belongs to z-man (armagetron.kicks-ass.net, master 1), one to Lucifer_arma (wiki.davefancella.com, master2), to me (wrtlprnft.ath.cx, master3), and to iF (armagetron.de, master4)
22:52 <wrtlprnft> maybe we should put a list on the wiki
22:53 <spidey> DrJoeTron, 
22:53 <spidey> [15:54:24] Connecting to 66.29.95.48:8567
22:53 <spidey> [15:54:27] No reply from server
22:53 <spidey> Maybe the server is offline
22:53 <spidey> or maybe teamspeak is not running on it
22:53 <spidey> nvm, connected that time
22:54 <DrJoeTron> ok
22:54 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: ok, you're right I modified that line to try to fix it ... here is the CVS trunk error, I've got no information where "random" should be defined as type ?
22:54 <DrJoeTron> yeah server doesnt show up on 3 either
22:54 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: `random' was not declared in this scope
22:54 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: template argument 2 is invalid
22:54 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Random' with no type
22:54 <joda_bot> Process terminated with status 1 (0 minutes, 10 seconds)
22:54 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: what IP?
22:54 <joda_bot> Line reads: typedef Bindings::CFunction::fZeroary<long int, random> Random;
22:55 <DrJoeTron> wrtlprnft 64.108.205.96
22:55 <DrJoeTron> it says it connected
22:55  * wrtlprnft greps his log
22:55 <wrtlprnft> [2006/09/04 22:52:13] [2] Updated server: 64.108.205.96:4534
22:56 <wrtlprnft> oh, freak
22:56 <wrtlprnft> darn 3dot
22:56 <wrtlprnft> he broke my XML
22:56 <DrJoeTron> yeah
22:56 <DrJoeTron> but it doesnt show up for me
22:56 <wrtlprnft> second
22:58 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: any ideas, what's going wrong ?
23:02 <[dlh]> try &random, maybe?
23:04 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: well, you're on the master, definitely
23:04 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/serverlist/serverxml.php?stripcolors
23:05 <wrtlprnft> after i just fixed the trouble some jerk with a control char in his nick was causing
23:05 <DrJoeTron> i guess its a personal problem then
23:05 <DrJoeTron> thanks
23:06 <Vanhayes> wrtlprnft: what codec would I need for that AW-B vs WPN movie?
23:06 <wrtlprnft> DrJoeTron: just connected, works fine
23:06 <joda_bot> http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDShow.htm
23:06 <joda_bot> Vanhayes: this one
23:07 <wrtlprnft> windows computers can't play mpeg4 movies by default?!
23:07 <joda_bot> just checked FFDShow development is a bit splittered and confusing...
23:07 <joda_bot> the offic
23:07 <joda_bot> official project at sourceforge is not maintained anymore
23:07 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: It's not MP4
23:07 <joda_bot> it's FMP4
23:08 <wrtlprnft> x_X
23:08 <ghableska> O_o
23:08 <joda_bot> which a customized version from linux players
23:08 <joda_bot> (I guess)
23:08 <DrJoeTron> great
23:08 <DrJoeTron> thank yo ;
23:09 <joda_bot> I can use my Mac or Nero to recode it to mpeg
23:09 <joda_bot> something...
23:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: just tell me the flags i need to pass to mengoder?
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> cinelerra
23:09 <joda_bot> perhaps you can even change the FourCC code to another value and like xvid and make it playable
23:09 <joda_bot> hey Lucifer_arma ;9
23:09 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: need mencoder options :P
23:09 <Lucifer_arma> hi joda_bot 
23:10 <wrtlprnft> then i can encode the video again
23:10 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: I've still got not clue about the "random" ISO C++ forbids problem
23:10 <Lucifer_arma> I finally started getting my head wrapped around cinelerra
23:10 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: let me check
23:10 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: I told you
23:11 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: you don't have any code I've ever seen
23:11 <Vanhayes> nice, it works good, thx joda_bot 
23:11 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: certainly not anything in Svn
23:11 <Luke-Jr> that probably wasn't the only line
23:11 <Luke-Jr> re-checkout
23:11 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: i could as well give you a 9GB tarball of PNGs, then you can encode it in any way you want
23:11 <[dlh]> Yes, he fabricated it himself to trick you.
23:12 <joda_bot> I believe the latest VLC Media Player should support FMP4 FourCC. Else change the FourCC of the file using a FourCC changer into XviD or DX50 and then retry with VLC. FMP4 is MPEG-4 compatible, so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't play.
23:12 <wrtlprnft> well, so it is mpeg4
23:12 <wrtlprnft> or at least compatible
23:12 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: ... ok wait ;)
23:12 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: random is defined in stdlib.h
23:13 <joda_bot> it's from tools\values\veMath.h
23:13 <[dlh]> &random didn't work?
23:13 <Luke-Jr> [dlh]: no
23:13 <Luke-Jr> it shouldn't have &
23:13 <joda_bot> well the "type" random is unknown or forbidden
23:13 <Luke-Jr> random isn't a type, it's a function
23:13 <[dlh]> It should if it is a function pointer
23:13 <Luke-Jr> it's a function, not a function pointer
23:14 <joda_bot> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tools/values/veMath.h?revision=6061&view=markup
23:14 <joda_bot> Read line 76
23:15 <joda_bot> Well, then ISO C++ forbids this 
23:15 <joda_bot> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:80: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Random' with no type
23:15 <Luke-Jr>    76 typedef Bindings::CFunction::fZeroary<long int, random> Random;
23:15 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: the lines are moved
23:15 <wrtlprnft> second
23:15 <joda_bot> because I've added three comments above
23:15 <wrtlprnft> you CAN'T habe random in ther!
23:16 <wrtlprnft> *in there
23:16 <wrtlprnft> i think
23:16 <joda_bot> hehe
23:16 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: why not?
23:16 <wrtlprnft> because it's a function
23:16  * joda_bot lets the others fight this out ;)
23:16 <Luke-Jr> so?
23:16 <wrtlprnft> it needs to be a type for a template
23:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: that error is irrelevant
23:16 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: news to me
23:16 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr:  it won't compile
23:16 <joda_bot> tell me how to fix this on windows 
23:16 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: it does for everyone else...
23:16 -!- [Xpert]DarkStar is now known as DarkStar|Faraway
23:16 <DarkStar|Faraway> bye all
23:17 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: only the first error is relevant in your case
23:17 <wrtlprnft> Luke-Jr: everyone else is using windows
23:17 <DarkStar|Faraway> i'll be back on sunday evening
23:17 <[dlh]> bye renamed person
23:17 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: EVERYONE else is not me 
23:17 <wrtlprnft> DarkStar|Faraway: cya
23:17 <joda_bot> and I'm on windows ..
23:17 <Luke-Jr> wrtlprnft: not developers
23:17 <Luke-Jr> the majority of people compiling don't use Windows
23:17 <joda_bot> ok, I'm done for today
23:17 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: though the easy solution would be to move to linux or mac jk
23:17 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: like I said, the first error is the problem, not that one
23:17 <Luke-Jr> that is caused by the first one
23:18 <joda_bot> Luke-Jr: ok, how would I declare random ?
23:18 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: try just uncommenting the line?
23:19 <Luke-Jr> #include <stdlib.h>
23:19 <wrtlprnft> if it complains a few lines further down you'll see
23:19 <wrtlprnft> typedef Bindings::CFunction::fUnary<float, float, sinf> Sin;
23:19 <joda_bot> Can someone give me the linux line where random / linux are defined ?
23:19 <joda_bot> wrtlprnft: I tried commenting it
23:19 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: your problem is with fUnary and such
23:19 <Luke-Jr> not random
23:19 <joda_bot> I got a VERY long template error later on
23:20 <Luke-Jr> joda_bot: 'random' is defined in stdlib.h
23:20 <Luke-Jr>        #include <stdlib.h>
23:20 <Luke-Jr>        long int random(void);
23:20 <Luke-Jr> that's from the manpage
23:20 <wrtlprnft> joda_bot: extern long int random (void) __THROW;
23:20 <[dlh]> it is long random(void); on mac os x.
23:21 <wrtlprnft> that's in stdlib.h:440
23:21 <[dlh]> oh wait...
23:21 <Luke-Jr> [dlh]: hmm!
23:22 <Luke-Jr> if that was the first error message, I'd suspect that
23:24 <joda_bot> random is not defined in stdlib.h for mingw
23:24 <joda_bot> :-(
23:25 <wrtlprnft> well, there has to be some other way to get random numbers
23:25 <joda_bot> I'm looking for it's definition 
23:26 <joda_bot> it's probably part of windows headers
23:27 -!- joda_bo1 [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-022-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #armagetron
23:27 <wrtlprnft> #g 16*((2**31)-1)
23:28 <armabot> 16 * ((2 ** 31) - 1) = 34,359,738,352
23:29 <joda_bo1> Luke-Jr: would rand or srand be ok too ?
23:29 <joda_bo1> because : http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=1505131
23:29 <joda_bo1> mingw does not have random for whatever reasons 
23:29 <Luke-Jr> joda_bo1: no idea wtf those are
23:30 <Luke-Jr> libiberty is pretty standard, no?
23:30 <joda_bo1> what is the exspected output of random (range?)
23:30 <Luke-Jr> shrug, we haven't defined it yet
23:31 <Luke-Jr> it's just an example right now =p
23:31 <[dlh]>  0 to (2**31) - 1
23:31 <wrtlprnft> or MAX_RAND
23:31 <joda_bo1> thx [dlh]
23:32 <wrtlprnft> random should be implemented as a function from the parser side anyways
23:32 <Luke-Jr> "The function rand() is not reentrant or thread-safe"
23:32 <wrtlprnft> random(min, max)
23:33 <wrtlprnft> #g random(1,2)
23:33 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:33 <Luke-Jr> probably a good idea
23:33 <wrtlprnft> random isn't that easy anyways
23:33 <wrtlprnft> if we implement it we need a way to syncronize between client and server
23:33 <Luke-Jr> or random * 2 + 1
23:34 <Luke-Jr> yes
23:34 <wrtlprnft> 130000 frames to go
23:34 <Luke-Jr> so really, that random implementation is useless =p
23:34 <wrtlprnft> indeed (means i agree)
23:35 <ghableska> :P
23:35 <wrtlprnft> actually
23:35 <wrtlprnft> 13000 frames to go
23:35 <wrtlprnft> it's going fast!
23:35 <ghableska> :D
23:35  * ghableska is counting down :P
23:36 <ghableska> wrtlprnft: what match?
23:36 <wrtlprnft> 12000
23:36 <Luke-Jr> 11000
23:36 <Luke-Jr> 10000
23:36 <Luke-Jr> 9000
23:36 <Luke-Jr> 8000
23:36 <ghableska> 0!
23:36 <Luke-Jr> 7000
23:36 <wrtlprnft> -1
23:36 <ghableska> :P
23:36 <Luke-Jr> -102
23:36 <ghableska> uh oh
23:36 <Luke-Jr> crap, wrtl you encoded too many frames
23:36 <spidey> -infinity+infinity squared
23:36 <spidey> beotch
23:36 <ghableska> XD
23:37 <wrtlprnft> -42 + 23i frames
23:37 <ghableska> O_o
23:37 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lack@ipd50aa335.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["Here I Go, To Save The Day!"]
23:38 <wrtlprnft> which reminds me, i need to find a spot to bind a +- symbol to
23:39 <ghableska> 8
23:39 <wrtlprnft> just where
23:39 <wrtlprnft> ?
23:40 <wrtlprnft> √2
23:40 <wrtlprnft> √3
23:40 <wrtlprnft> ∛3
23:40 <joda_bo1> wrtlprnft: is that UTF-8 ?
23:40 <wrtlprnft> oh, i already have one
23:40 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: yeah
23:40 <wrtlprnft> 1±2
23:40 <wrtlprnft> yay
23:40 <wrtlprnft> in a weird spot, but oh well
23:41 <joda_bo1> hm, ok the random problem will remain unsolved for a bit longer
23:41 <joda_bo1> rand isn't accepted
23:41 <wrtlprnft> :(
23:41 <joda_bo1> it returns int
23:41 <ghableska> brb
23:41 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has left #Armagetron []
23:41 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: write a wrapper?
23:41 <joda_bo1> and after adding type conversion I get this:
23:41 <joda_bo1>  `int rand()' cannot appear in a constant-expression
23:41 <joda_bo1> hm, ok I can try that
23:42 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@dslb-084-061-003-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:42 <wrtlprnft> ah, you can't use int rand()
23:43 <wrtlprnft> just change the template to int
23:43 <joda_bo1> eh
23:43 <joda_bo1> Just found a Random function in gAIBase ?
23:43 <joda_bo1> returns a REAL
23:43 <wrtlprnft> haha
23:43 <wrtlprnft> use that
23:44 <joda_bo1>  // an instance of this class will prevent deterministic random lookups
23:44 <joda_bo1> class gRandomController
23:46 <[dlh]> #g 1.0/0
23:46 <armabot> Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
23:46 <[dlh]> :(
23:47 <wrtlprnft> #g sqrt(-2)
23:47 <armabot> sqrt(-2) = 1.41421356 i
23:49 <wrtlprnft> render finished
23:49 <wrtlprnft> now i need to upload it :s
23:50 <Luke-Jr> um
23:50 <Luke-Jr> what is infinity-infinity?
23:50 <wrtlprnft> bs
23:51 <[dlh]> Just Infinity.
23:51 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
23:51 <Luke-Jr> joda_bo1: erm, the syntax of fZeroary is <return-type, func>
23:53 <joda_bo1> Luke-Jr: thx
23:53 <joda_bo1> long int random()
23:53 <joda_bo1> {
23:53 <joda_bo1>     return (long int)tRandomizer::GetInstance()::Get(RAND_MAX);
23:53 <joda_bo1> }
23:53 <joda_bo1> ../../src/tools/values/veMath.h:39: error: `class tRandomizer' used where a `long int' was expected
23:54 <Luke-Jr> joda_bo1: just turn Random into a real class...
23:54 <joda_bo1> second :: were wrong .... ?
23:54 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: yeah
23:54 <wrtlprnft> you need a . or -> there
23:54 <wrtlprnft> depending on if GetInstance returns a reference or pointer
23:55 <[dlh]> it returns a reference.
23:55 <wrtlprnft> then . ;)
23:55 <joda_bo1> yeah it ... did not compile *hehe
23:55 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has left #Armagetron []
23:55  * joda_bo1 has some clue to who dlh might be ? 
23:55  * Luke-Jr didn't write the C binding stuff just so people can implement functions in C ;p
23:55 -!- ghableska [n=ghablesk@12-240-54-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Armagetron
23:55 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: ;)
23:56 <joda_bo1> Luke-Jr: You suggest ?
23:56 <joda_bo1> ok, the error I get when uncommenting that line is back
23:57 <joda_bo1> and it's a nasty one 
23:57 <joda_bo1> deeeeeeep in variant.hpp of boost
23:57 <Luke-Jr> joda_bo1: I suggest implementing an actual vValue class =p
23:57 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: instantiated from where?
23:58 <joda_bo1> ../../../winlibs/boost/includes/boost/variant/variant.hpp: In member function `void boost::variant<T0, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5, T6, T7, T8, T9, T10, T11, T12, T13, T14, T15, T16, T17, T18, T19>::convert_construct(T&, int, mpl_::false_) [with T = const double, T0_ = int, T1 = float, T2 = std::string, T3 = boost::detail::variant::void_, T4 = boost::detail::variant::void_, T5 = boost::detail::variant::void_, T6 = boost::detail::vari
23:58  * Luke-Jr ... blames it on ... Windows
23:58 <wrtlprnft> T0, T1, T2... that's what i call extensible programming
23:58 <joda_bo1> Compiling: ..\..\src\tools\values\veComparison.cpp
23:59 <wrtlprnft> joda_bo1: do you get a line number in veComparison.cpp?
23:59 <joda_bo1> ..\..\src\tools\values\veComparison.cpp:61:   instantiated from here
23:59 <wrtlprnft> that's something you can work with :)
23:59 <joda_bo1> it's in the middle of the error message so I did miss it

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