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Log from 2018-04-05:
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[05:05:10] <testman> Sup duds
[05:05:19] <testman> anything new in the world of armagetron?
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[16:37:05] <Lucifer_arma> what is it about python references that I'm not understanding?
[17:00:16] <ct|kyle> Lucifer_arma: they always forget to put what the imports should be :P
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[18:40:09] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: no, I mean object references.  In some contexts, when you do something with an object, it happens to the instance of the object, while in others, it's basically copy-on-write
[18:40:38] <Lucifer_arma> like, in a for loop.  If you do for a in alist:
[18:40:53] <Lucifer_arma> if you do a.append() in the loop, you modify the list inside the loop
[18:41:03] <Lucifer_arma> er, no, that's not what I mean
[18:41:05] <Lucifer_arma> grrr
[18:41:16] <AmarokNelg> CONVERSATION IN ACTION!!!! :P
[18:41:30] <Lucifer_arma> if you do a.someMethodThatChangesA(changeit), then the element referenced by a is changed
[18:41:47] <Lucifer_arma> but if you do a = 2, then the local variable a in the loop becomes an int(2)
[18:42:10] <Lucifer_arma> so what happens if a happens to be a dict, or a list?
[18:42:34] <Lucifer_arma> I checked, and if you do something like a[someitem] = 2, then you get a local dict for a that has only the one item in it
[18:43:16] <Lucifer_arma> but I *think* that if you do a.__setattribute__(sometime, 2), then it changes the item in the list over which you're iterating
[18:43:47] <Lucifer_arma> not sure, I'd have to double check it, but I figured out what I need to know for what I'm doing, which is to use setters on my object so I can change them inside the loop
[18:44:13] <Lucifer_arma> basically, treat it as copy on write, but don't call any setters unless you want the side effects
[18:44:17] <Lucifer_arma> hi AmarokNelg
[18:44:25] <Lucifer_arma> isn't Amarok unmaintained/abandoned now?
[18:44:47] <AmarokNelg> ohi Lucifer_arma - I actually have nothing to do with the amarok project lol and I use clemontine as my media player
[18:45:02] <AmarokNelg> clementine*
[18:45:29] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I'm using vlc, mostly because when I listen to music, I give the song my full attention.  No background music for me!
[18:46:00] <Lucifer_arma> also, I'm disappointed.  I'd always hoped (but never bothered to ask) that you were with Amarok, and using it in your name to indicate so, the same way I use _arma to say I'm with armagetron
[18:46:51] <AmarokNelg> I named myself after various KDE projects for some reason such as Konqueror, Konquest
[18:47:31] <AmarokNelg> I could use armanelgtron like I do elsewhere
[18:47:35] *** AmarokNelg is now known as Armanelgtron
[18:51:01] <Armanelgtron> I don't know how good of an idea that is though :P
[18:52:01] <Lucifer_arma> makes it a little harder to spot you
[18:52:12] <Lucifer_arma> damn, I just found out that whoever took over Lucifer is still using it :(
[18:52:34] <Lucifer_arma> all because I forgot my password with nickserv, and never bothered to fix it
[18:53:13] <Armanelgtron> hmm, almost like how I'm aP|Nelg on the forums :P
[18:55:42] <Lucifer_arma> you lost the Nelg account?
[18:56:59] <Lucifer_arma> I should quit being lazy and register Lucifer_arma, and link Lucifer_original to it, just to indicate that the current owner of Lucifer took it from me
[19:03:22] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I need to take a step back and quit trying to create Player objects for now
[19:03:47] <Lucifer_arma> I need to test the connection maintenance stuff and make sure it can timeout connections properly
[19:03:56] <Lucifer_arma> I don't need Player objects for that.
[19:10:57] <Armanelgtron> So are the passwords on the forums stored seperately for armaauth than the forums itself or something?
[19:11:17] <Armanelgtron> And that would explain why it's possible for a password ingame to be different than the password on the forums?
[19:14:42] <Lucifer_arma> I thought they were stored in the same place.
[19:15:08] <Lucifer_arma> the idea, that I thought we did, is that your forum account can be used to login ingame using the @forums authority
[19:16:09] <Lucifer_arma> but arma never stored your actual password on-disk, just a hash, which is why we support md5sum hashes in the first place
[19:16:21] <Lucifer_arma> because that's what phpbb uses in its database
[19:16:53] <Armanelgtron> Well, for example... nelg@forums (original 2012 account) has a weak password which everybody knows - glen12345 - but it doesn't allow me to login on the forums with that password
[19:17:09] <Armanelgtron> Yet I can login ingame with that pw
[19:17:52] <Armanelgtron> btw this 2013 post might be of SOME help on the subject http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23215
[19:17:53] <Lucifer_arma> the account is probably disabled on the forums
[19:18:20] <Lucifer_arma> armathentication doesn't check whether or not the forum account is active, and if the password was compromised, guru3 would have disabled the forum account
[19:18:27] <Lucifer_arma> at least, that's how I understand it.
[19:18:43] <Armanelgtron> Well it definitely was compromised :P
[19:18:46] <Lucifer_arma> or there's a bug somewhere in the system
[19:18:58] <Armanelgtron> What about the PRECONDITION_FAILED ?
[19:19:02] <Lucifer_arma> iirc, guru3 and you decided it was better to disable the account
[19:19:13] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know, I don't know a lot about the internals of any of this
[19:19:23] <Armanelgtron> When you first register an account, you must login on the forums before you can login in the game, else you get a PRECONDITION_FAILED
[19:19:26] <Lucifer_arma> I only participated in design discussions.  z-man handled the implementation.
[19:19:48] <Armanelgtron> Ah
[19:20:11] <Lucifer_arma> good luck catching him, these days.  He apparently has the worst possible internet service imaginable.
[19:23:14] <Lucifer_arma> I don't understand Plasma 5 at all
[19:24:18] <Lucifer_arma> haha, nvm.  I'm just dumb.
[19:24:34] <Armanelgtron> I don't consider KDE5 that much different from KDE4
[19:24:35] <ct|kyle> starlink should help change the internet in a few years :)
[19:25:00] <Armanelgtron> Of course the obvious: the switch from Qt4 to Qt5
[19:25:11] <ct|kyle> I know that CT uses a differnt database for forum passwords / auth, but thye synck when you change it
[19:25:15] <Armanelgtron> Otherwise, it's a lot less of an adjustment than from kde 3 to kde 4 was
[19:25:15] <Lucifer_arma> Armanelgtron: I'm trying to get back to my old workflow, where I have most of the apps I use forced to particular virtual desktops
[19:25:38] <ct|kyle> (I manually changed it so my CT forum password was differnt that my auth :P
[19:25:50] <Lucifer_arma> and I set Firefox to have a 10% opacity when it's not in focus, leading to it nearly disappearing when I have something on top of it in focus
[19:26:13] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: that's a smooth move.  I remember trying to authenticate in-game and I forgot to specify @forums, and I sent over my forum password
[19:26:25] <Lucifer_arma> took me an hour or so to figure out I had just compromised my forum account, heh
[19:26:26] <ct|kyle> heh
[19:26:30] <Armanelgtron> Lucifer_arma: You could also try using "Activities" which would allow you to have different wallpapers...otherwise not dissimilar from virtual desktops
[19:26:47] <Armanelgtron> Which kind of makes me wonder why the functionality is basically duplicated into two seperate things
[19:26:50] <Lucifer_arma> They say that, but I couldn't find the button to let me configure wallpapers for activities
[19:27:02] <ct|kyle> I actually forget my ingame password, but it's not like that serer is up
[19:27:17] <Lucifer_arma> virtual desktops should have evolved into activities, instead of becoming different things
[19:27:29] <ct|kyle> the database got fucked, and I have yet to fix it :P + we lost crazy-tronners.com
[19:27:33] <Lucifer_arma> but activating an activity doesn't result in any apps being brought into focus
[19:27:40] <Lucifer_arma> awww, that's sad
[19:27:56] <Lucifer_arma> did you forget to renew it?  Or did it come up for renewal and nobody had any money?
[19:27:57] <Armanelgtron> I dunno, Aix_ is the KDE expert here :P
[19:28:12] <ct|kyle> i have ctwf.club and armatourney.net though :P
[19:28:22] <ct|kyle> need to put shit there :P
[19:28:34] <Lucifer_arma> I've managed to keep davefancella.com, even though I let it lapse one year
[19:28:50] <Lucifer_arma> there's a grace period where it's protected from vultures, and I renewed during that grace period
[19:28:57] <Armanelgtron> They both redirect to crazy-tronners.com @ct|kyle
[19:29:08] <Armanelgtron> Which you probably already knew :P
[19:30:25] <Lucifer_arma> I appear to be timing out on crazy-tronners.com
[19:30:32] <Lucifer_arma> does that mean it hasn't been vultured?
[19:31:08] <Lucifer_arma> it resolves to: 66.221.245.15
[19:31:12] <Lucifer_arma> but doesn't respond to pings
[19:32:33] <Lucifer_arma> says it's on a CoreSpace machine
[19:32:42] <Lucifer_arma> a geoIP service says that, I mean
[19:32:48] <Lucifer_arma> in Dallas
[19:32:51] <ct|kyle> actually ctwf.club, points to old CT server and that must do the redirect
[19:33:25] <ct|kyle> 107.161.23.76
[19:33:34] <Lucifer_arma> dave@Herman:~/Projects/davenetgame$ ping ctwf.club
[19:33:34] <Lucifer_arma> PING ctwf.club (107.161.23.76) 56(84) bytes of data.
[19:33:34] <Lucifer_arma> 64 bytes from webchat.irc.gy (107.161.23.76): icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=69.4 ms
[19:33:57] <Lucifer_arma> that hostname isn't what you get when you ping crazy-tronners.com
[19:34:12] <ct|kyle> crazy-tronners.com is not longer mine
[19:34:14] <Lucifer_arma> dave@Herman:~/Projects/davenetgame$ ping crazy-tronners.com
[19:34:14] <Lucifer_arma> PING crazy-tronners.com (66.221.245.15) 56(84) bytes of data.
[19:34:14] <Lucifer_arma> ^C
[19:34:25] <Lucifer_arma> it looks like it's nobody's
[19:35:58] <Lucifer_arma> rather, some japanese company nabbed it
[19:36:04] <Lucifer_arma> it expires in October of this year
[19:36:20] <ct|kyle> yes, I noticed that
[19:36:39] <ct|kyle> I may try to nab it back then
[19:38:14] <Lucifer_arma> I could email the address in the whois lookup and ask why they registered this domain, which they're clearly not using and have no interest in
[19:38:36] <Armanelgtron> Better than registering a domain and pointing to 127.0.0.1?
[19:38:40] <Lucifer_arma> I know why they have it, because they want to charge you extra to get it back, but I'm curious what they'd say to me
[19:38:49] <Lucifer_arma> Armanelgtron: that just sounds like fun
[19:38:55] * Lucifer_arma wishes sex.com was still available, now
[19:39:52] <ct|kyle> that is a great IP, all domains should point to it
[19:40:05] <Armanelgtron> lol!
[19:42:11] <ct|kyle> I wonder how luke-jr is taking the crpto selloff
[19:42:56] <ct|kyle> oh shit now they are up, stock market will be red tomorrow
[19:46:39] <Lucifer_arma> if he actually got any bitcoins, he should've already sold out of them
[19:47:01] <Lucifer_arma> in a lot of ways, the bottom is falling out of the cryptocurrency market
[19:48:04] * Lucifer_arma still thinks cryptocurrency is a silly idea.
[19:48:22] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, it's worthless until you sell it back into a currency that you're trying to replace
[19:48:43] <Lucifer_arma> it's like, I could buy an electric car, but I can't drive it unless I install a gas-powered generator
[19:49:46] <Lucifer_arma> and then I need a pack of horses to kickstart the generator
[19:50:01] <Lucifer_arma> but I can't buy those, I have to go get some wild horses and tame them
[19:50:25] <Lucifer_arma> but wild horses are protected, so I can't legally get them, so I have to wait for a new horse species to evolve that isn't protected
[19:50:44] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: other currencies are just as worthless..
[19:50:55] <Lucifer_arma> it's like dating a chimpanzee, hoping her kids will evolve into humans
[19:51:07] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: tell that to my electric company, or my landlord.
[19:51:18] <Lucifer_arma> "I didn't have to pay rent, because this currency is worthless.  Here, have a cookie, instead."
[19:52:17] <Lucifer_arma> shit, you can't even pay in gold anymore, even if you have it
[19:52:28] <Lucifer_arma> "Look, this pound of gold is worth my rent."
[19:52:33] <Lucifer_arma> "That's not the contract you signed."
[19:53:23] <Lucifer_arma> "how about this rare Beatles vinyl that was signed by all four of them?"
[19:53:28] <Lucifer_arma> "Nope, USD only."
[19:53:50] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: found an employer who pays in bitcoin?
[19:54:13] <Lucifer_arma> although, now that I think about it, that shouldn't be too hard, as long as you're willing to run drugs or weapons
[19:54:21] <Lucifer_arma> or be a kiddie fucker pimp
[19:54:26] <ct|kyle> I'd take the lbs of gold for a months rent :P
[19:54:37] <Lucifer_arma> since, you know, that's what 90% of what people actually BUY with bitcoin
[19:55:03] <Lucifer_arma> "Your honor, I didn't so much as murder the clerk as I paid in bullets."
[19:55:51] <ct|kyle> isent 1 pound of gold approximently a years worth of rent (give or take depending on location)
[19:56:07] <Lucifer_arma> idk.  Maybe you're thinking of copper ;)
[19:56:49] <Lucifer_arma> "I didn't rape her, I hired her and paid in semen."
[19:57:20] <Lucifer_arma> "Currency is supposed to be a limited resource of value."
[19:57:26] <Lucifer_arma> "I'm the only one who produces my semen."
[19:57:37] <Lucifer_arma> "OF VALUE."
[19:57:37] <ct|kyle> We need to start using moon rocks
[19:58:02] <ct|kyle> luke-jr: you wanna go harvest some moon rocks :P
[19:58:03] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I'll file Chapter 11 under the basis of "I don't own any moon rocks, adn that's my preferred form of currency."
[19:58:23] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, shit, if we could just PICK our own currency, I'd be fucking rich
[19:58:27] <ct|kyle> chapter 14.5 is better
[19:58:42] <Lucifer_arma> is that the one that lets me choose my own currency?
[19:59:06] <ct|kyle> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/980566101124722688
[20:00:06] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: I don't do employment.
[20:00:19] <luke-jr> but there's at least one company that hooks up to direct deposits and converts to bitcoins
[20:00:20] <Lucifer_arma> so you're unemployed?
[20:00:37] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: I missed that one.  It's hilarious how many people fell for it in the comments.
[20:00:58] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: I do work on a simple contractual basis
[20:01:08] <ct|kyle> the news was speaking of tesla going bankrupt for the whole week before it too
[20:01:15] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: do you have your clients pay you in bitcoin?
[20:01:32] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: yeah, Tesla was trying to score more capital
[20:01:53] <Lucifer_arma> a lot of pundits took that to mean Tesla was threatening bankruptcy, which is pretty silly
[20:02:26] <ct|kyle> ya, I got the stock last Friday, fell 15 bucks on Monday after that
[20:02:35] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, they're just about done working out the bugs in the Model 3 production.  There's no way elon musk is going to let the company go bankrupt.
[20:02:41] <ct|kyle> then skyrocketed the rest of the week
[20:02:53] <ct|kyle> exactly
[20:03:14] <Lucifer_arma> and SpaceX is not only profitable right now, they're on track for something like 27 launches this year
[20:03:31] <ct|kyle> 28
[20:03:38] <Lucifer_arma> elon musk could take a loan using his SpaceX shares as collateral, heh
[20:03:48] <ct|kyle> Exactly
[20:03:50] <Lucifer_arma> last I read was 27, but I suck at remembering numbers.
[20:04:09] <ct|kyle> Spacex can take out bounds or something with tesla, like the did with solar city
[20:04:12] <Lucifer_arma> but with SpaceX riding as high as they are right now, there's no way Tesla is going to go bankrupt
[20:04:29] <Lucifer_arma> ah, there's actually a problem with the Solar City takeover.
[20:04:37] *** Joins: Z-Man (~Z-Man@x59cc9ac4.dyn.telefonica.de)
[20:04:38] <ct|kyle> spacex needs tesla now, for thier fleet of sats, I'm sure they will use thier solar panels
[20:04:57] <Lucifer_arma> depending on how the SEC accepts certain definitions, that could be a criminal offense for musk
[20:05:08] <Lucifer_arma> if someone actually calls him on it and takes him to court, that is
[20:05:12] <ct|kyle> musk did not vote on it at all
[20:05:28] <ct|kyle> and all common board members
[20:05:41] <Lucifer_arma> it has to do with his leadership style, and how he led the board to the purchase without looking at other companies that did the same thing.
[20:06:02] <ct|kyle> It went to shareholders to vote on it
[20:06:20] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, he crossed his i's and dotted his t's, I know ;)
[20:06:38] <Lucifer_arma> the key phrase, though, is "controlling interest", or something like that
[20:06:43] <ct|kyle> But when they basically were already working together, it did not make sence to go to another solar company
[20:07:12] <Lucifer_arma> right, and they were working together because elon musk (or his friend, I think it was a friend of his) owned Solar City at the time
[20:07:23] <ct|kyle> buying solar city stock befoer the merge, was the best deal too
[20:07:43] <ct|kyle> you were getting tesla stock at a then $20 discount
[20:07:44] <Lucifer_arma> so the question, in the article I read about it, anyway, is whether or not Musk's control of Tesla constitutes a controlling interest, even if he doesn't own enough shares to have a controlling interest on paper
[20:08:11] <Lucifer_arma> no case like that has been brought to the SEC, so there's no ruling on it
[20:09:05] <ct|kyle> except they chared a $50 fee per account for the merge
[20:09:20] <Lucifer_arma> also, the article I read made a point of pointing out who Elon Musk's enemies might be, and the writer seemed more concerned about ULA going after him than someone like Ford
[20:09:55] <ct|kyle> this was around the pad file time too wasen't it
[20:10:01] <Lucifer_arma> but I don't see SpaceX suddenly locking up with him in jail
[20:10:05] <Lucifer_arma> this was a couple of weeks ago
[20:10:06] <ct|kyle> when they wanted to earch ULA's building
[20:10:18] <Lucifer_arma> it was a highly speculative article
[20:10:48] <Lucifer_arma> but with the competition over the next manned stuff, with SpaceX on an even field with ULA (except, of course, that ULA has launched manned flights in the past)
[20:10:58] <Lucifer_arma> ULA has an interest in stopping SpaceX however they can
[20:11:17] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, $90million for a launch on the Falcon 9 vs ULA charging $300million for the same payload
[20:11:36] <ct|kyle> I know
[20:11:50] <ct|kyle> Although I think tory corrected that to ~250 million
[20:11:53] <Lucifer_arma> at this point, ULA is only surviving because of their history with NASA.  If the congress told NASA they had to cut costs, NASA would have no choice but to cut off ULA
[20:12:14] <Lucifer_arma> it's the same number, just different significant figures :)
[20:12:35] <ct|kyle> there was a big twitter war about it
[20:13:02] <ct|kyle> but exactly, I was like still costs more, who cares that they are off by a bit
[20:13:02] <Lucifer_arma> about ULA launch costs?
[20:13:07] <ct|kyle> yes
[20:13:16] <Lucifer_arma> I'm glad I'm not on twitter
[20:13:20] <ct|kyle> when musk brought it up after heavy launch
[20:13:37] <Lucifer_arma> oh, right, I saw someone like snopes do a fact-check on that
[20:14:19] <Lucifer_arma> why would ULA fight that?  Why not just say "Well, technically, it's $250million worth of demonstrated reliability, vs your one heavy launch"
[20:14:46] <Lucifer_arma> hey, did you see that they just docked the first re-used Dragon capsule to the ISS?
[20:15:21] <ct|kyle> that's the 3rd reused one
[20:15:23] <Lucifer_arma> it really feels like they should be close to launching a man-capable Dragon
[20:15:38] <Lucifer_arma> first to be sent back up.  Maybe they've recovered three.  :)
[20:15:49] <Lucifer_arma> or maybe it's the first one that was reused twice?
[20:15:53] <ct|kyle> no, that is the 3rd reused and redocked
[20:16:48] <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, that's what I get for reading mainstream stuff
[20:17:00] <Lucifer_arma> I usually try to read Space.com or the other one, the one that focuses on space travel
[20:17:18] <ct|kyle> that is the 2nd
[20:17:37] <ct|kyle> crs 13 was reused
[20:18:05] <ct|kyle> Err 11, 13 and 14
[20:18:27] <ct|kyle> 13 and 14 both had reused boosters also
[20:19:33] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they're up to like 7 reused boosters or something like that
[20:19:59] <ct|kyle> 9
[20:20:21] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, something like that.  :)  Didn't the heavy launch have a reused booster on it?
[20:20:34] <Lucifer_arma> I seem to recall one of its first stages being a reused falcon 9
[20:20:52] <Lucifer_arma> idk, I haven't been following in that much detail :)
[20:20:54] <ct|kyle> I've watched every launch live since, first landing
[20:21:03] <ct|kyle> both outer cores were reused on heavy
[20:21:22] <Lucifer_arma> I saw that the X Prize is re-upping the Lunar X Prize, but currently there's no cash prize since google pulled out
[20:21:43] <ct|kyle> although they were upgraded to hige titanium gridfins, the only part that they really planned on salvaging
[20:22:07] <Lucifer_arma> the heavy is still experimental, though
[20:23:41] <ct|kyle> heavy was one of those days at work, everyone was watching it :P even my company's CEO
[20:26:45] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I haven't gotten excited about a rocket launch since the original X Prize launches
[20:27:16] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, I read about them after they happen, because I'm interested
[20:27:39] <Lucifer_arma> and for particularly interested missions (like SpaceX's qualifying run to dock with the ISS), I'll watch the archived video
[20:34:29] <ct|kyle> I remember those 2 weeks of X prize
[20:35:43] <ct|kyle> what did we use for revisioning back then?
[20:36:36] <Lucifer_arma> I think we were still on cvs
[20:37:00] <Lucifer_arma> actually, I don't think I was part of the project then, just a regular ol' server operator
[20:38:59] <ct|kyle> Lucifer_arma: you set it up, it was on your server
[20:39:16] <Lucifer_arma> huh?  set what up?
[20:39:34] <ct|kyle> whatever we used to stach files
[20:39:41] <ct|kyle> for X-prize
[20:39:44] <Lucifer_arma> both armagetron and armagetron advanced were on sourceforge cvs servers
[20:39:54] <Lucifer_arma> oh, wait, you're talking about the lunar x prize
[20:40:01] <ct|kyle> yes
[20:40:13] <Lucifer_arma> I was talking about the SpaceShipOne winning the original Ansari X Prize :)
[20:40:30] <Lucifer_arma> ummm, we were probably using svn at the time, then.
[20:40:30] <ct|kyle> lol
[20:40:45] <Lucifer_arma> we'd have won the google lunar x prize if I hadn't gotten divorced
[20:41:11] <Lucifer_arma> or rather, *I* would have.  :)  When I advanced the project far enough to get people to work on it.
[20:41:13] <ct|kyle> Yes, we cannot prove it otherwise :P
[20:41:35] <Lucifer_arma> well, we can demonstrably prove that the project fell apart when I didn't have time to work on it, because that's what happened
[20:42:38] <ct|kyle> I remember trying to get into physics class at college, and professer turned me down because i had nott aken a math class
[20:42:56] <ct|kyle> later on, I had him as a professror and he vaguely remembered me
[20:43:33] <Lucifer_arma> I remember having enough smart and talented people, covering all the skills needed, signed on to the project
[20:43:52] <Lucifer_arma> but nobody actually having any time to work on anything, or else they were waiting to see what everybody else did before jumping in
[20:43:53] <ct|kyle> we had a pretty good group
[20:43:57] <Lucifer_arma> it was a frustrating time for me, heh
[20:44:37] <Lucifer_arma> I still have all the files from then
[20:44:48] <ct|kyle> I think code ise we were wiating for you a bit
[20:45:20] <ct|kyle> I probaboly have the files somewhere, just have no clue where
[20:46:01] <ct|kyle> that was back at the end of 2007?
[20:46:03] <Lucifer_arma> you probably were waiting for me
[20:46:22] <Lucifer_arma> there were other people that were supposed to be working on physically building something
[20:46:35] <Lucifer_arma> yeah,we formed the project after I went to the XPRizeCup in 2007
[20:46:42] <Lucifer_arma> I got divorced in late 2008
[20:46:52] <Lucifer_arma> so it was really just that one spring semester where we had a project
[20:47:18] <ct|kyle> I only remember it being for a month or so
[20:47:20] <Lucifer_arma> my son wants to restart that project
[20:47:29] <Lucifer_arma> I worked on it continuously until my divorce
[20:47:42] <ct|kyle> how old is he now?
[20:47:46] <Lucifer_arma> 17
[20:48:12] <Lucifer_arma> he's got enough programming chops to work on it, too
[20:48:52] <ct|kyle> nice
[20:50:11] <Aix_> On that plasma 5 desktop thing: I don't think you can configure different wallpapers for different activities but since the wallpaper has become a plasma widget anyways in plasma 5 you could write your own slideshow/video wallpaper using the kdevelop wallpaper template with a lil bit of qtquick  and make it behave like you want it to
[20:50:14] <ct|kyle> I still have to say, my best thing was working on tron while learning to program. so many other people just went to classes and did the classwork and nothing outside of it
[20:51:29] <Lucifer_arma> you could have another best thing and build a lunar rover :)
[20:52:17] <ct|kyle> I know, with that tron server on it :)
[20:52:33] <ct|kyle> (although that would have violated the rules a bit
[20:52:51] <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember there being a rule against having a game server on a lunar rover
[20:53:01] <Lucifer_arma> we'd still do the same plan, though
[20:53:20] <Lucifer_arma> 1.  Write the rover control software to run in a simulator, with a control program networking to it.
[20:53:39] <Lucifer_arma> 2.  Build a physical rover that can operate in earth environment using cheaply availabe x86 gear
[20:53:49] <Lucifer_arma> 3.  Find someone to fund developing the rover to a moon-capable unit
[20:53:55] <Lucifer_arma> 4.  Launch it and win it
[20:54:08] <ct|kyle> with what I know now, damn it makes that a lot easier to do
[20:54:18] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: I let my clients choose what currency to pay me in
[20:54:19] <Lucifer_arma> no kidding.
[20:54:37] <luke-jr> so long as it's USD or bitcoins :P
[20:54:41] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: even if it's "worthless" currency?  Why accept worthless currency?
[20:54:45] <luke-jr> or silver or gold I guess, but nobody has ever done that
[20:55:11] <Lucifer_arma> well, my ultima iv character has 9000gp.  How much work would that get me?
[20:55:23] <ct|kyle> luke-jr: that's the way i would have paied you if i needed your tron seerver :P
[20:55:43] <Lucifer_arma> I'll pay you in a unique blend of copper, tin, and nickel
[20:56:40] <ct|kyle> luke-jr: how many mining rigs do you have now? and have you ventured into the others
[20:57:05] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, there's like so many different cryptocurrencies now, you could own a fortune in bits you can't understand
[20:57:14] <Lucifer_arma> *bytes
[20:57:29] <Lucifer_arma> you could make your own, even
[20:57:38] <Lucifer_arma> you should do that.  I'd buy a luke-jr.
[20:57:45] <ct|kyle> ETH is what I hear will be better than bitcoin
[20:58:09] <ct|kyle> you mean a luke-jr_isanasshat
[20:58:17] <Lucifer_arma> screw that.  I luke-jr creates his own cryptocurrency called 'luke-jr', I'll make all of my computers mine that shit
[20:58:23] <Lucifer_arma> I'll be the richest person in the world
[20:58:40] <Lucifer_arma> my tablet, my phone, my tv, my laptop, all will be mining luke-jrs
[20:59:03] <Lucifer_arma> I'll start taking over other people's computers just so I could mine luke-jrs
[20:59:25] <ct|kyle> a botnet of luke-jr miners
[20:59:29] <Lucifer_arma> then, when I'm rich, I'll go onto the dark web and spend it on weapons
[20:59:35] <Lucifer_arma> ALL OF IT
[20:59:46] <Lucifer_arma> I'll hire my own private army, and I'll pay them in luke-jrs
[21:00:29] <Lucifer_arma> then I'll stage a coup in Uganda, and declare the luke-jr the official currency of the African Union
[21:00:42] <Lucifer_arma> then the world will have to take luke-jr seriously!
[21:00:55] <ct|kyle> We can tax the churches in luke-jr's
[21:01:12] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, especially the false roman catholics!  I mean, fuck those guys!
[21:01:47] <Lucifer_arma> we'll tax everything they do.  Had a baby?  Tax!  Went to church?  tax!  Ate a grap?  Jizz!  I mean, Tax!
[21:01:56] <Lucifer_arma> *grape
[21:02:18] <Lucifer_arma> hell, taxing catholic babies seems like a surefire way to get rich
[21:02:47] <Lucifer_arma> I change my mind.  Fuck luke-jr currency.  I'm going to become the first mobster that beats up churches until they pay us for every baby born to a member of their congregation.
[21:03:00] <Lucifer_arma> it'll be the ultimate racket
[21:03:06] <Lucifer_arma> I'll get the LDS too
[21:03:31] <Aix_> you could also want to help fix armagetron performance on xwayland before all that
[21:03:46] <Lucifer_arma> in fact, forget about having strongmen doing the hard work.  I'll just make a lightning-bolt shooter, and threaten them with the wrath of god.
[21:03:56] <ct|kyle> Aix_: we need some way to fund that
[21:04:05] <Lucifer_arma> Aix_: quit interfering with my plan for world domination!
[21:04:26] <Lucifer_arma> what's wrong with armagetron performance on xwayland, anyway?
[21:04:37] <Lucifer_arma> I thought wayland was supposed to make everything better without any code changes
[21:04:50] <Aix_> ct|kyle: on plasma mobile I'm getting 5 fps xwayland :/ been trying to port it
[21:05:04] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll tax wayland and threaten THEM with my lightning-bolt gun
[21:05:19] <Lucifer_arma> plasma mobile?  What OS?
[21:05:45] <Aix_> Plasma mobile - Linux OS a full KDE neon distro on Nexus 5x
[21:06:01] <Lucifer_arma> wait, so the currently supported targets aren't affected?
[21:06:15] <Lucifer_arma> did you try using an OpenGLES compatibility library?
[21:06:15] <ct|kyle> they changed the name again, wasen't that plasma active before?
[21:07:00] <Aix_> Plasma Mobile is a new thing plasma active was really old
[21:07:33] <Aix_> It's the same plasma desktop on the phone just a converged shell
[21:07:42] <Lucifer_arma> did you try using an OpenGLES compatibility library?
[21:09:15] <Aix_> Do I need to set any specific configure flags for it ?
[21:09:58] <Lucifer_arma> you need to modify the build system to use it, I think
[21:10:04] <Lucifer_arma> you might be able to use environment variables
[21:10:22] <Lucifer_arma> the point is, you need that, because your device doesn't support OpenGL the way armagetron uses it
[21:10:37] <Lucifer_arma> that's one of the reasons we can't just port to Android.  We have to rewrite the entire renderer.
[21:10:57] <Lucifer_arma> the best you can do is to find something like Regal (an Nvidia library) to run as a compatibility layer
[21:11:00] <Aix_> I Just used the normal compile and set a xwayland wrapper in the desktop file to launch it with xwayland
[21:11:02] <Lucifer_arma> it's like Wine, but for openGL
[21:11:25] <Lucifer_arma> that's aprt of your problem, then, using the X protocol on a limited resource device
[21:12:47] <Aix_> Could just be xwayland having bad performance atm but turning everything down to low does give 30fps
[21:12:59] <Lucifer_arma> https://github.com/p3/regal
[21:13:14] <Lucifer_arma> that sounds like your openGL implementation
[21:13:32] <Aix_> Looking into it thx
[21:13:39] <Lucifer_arma> theoretically, you should be able to improve performance with Regal
[21:14:33] <ct|kyle> now back to world domintion before luke-jr steals the idea
[21:14:45] <Lucifer_arma> nah, he doesn't steal my ideas, he hates them too much
[21:14:57] <Lucifer_arma> but he'd probably enjoy seeing me lightning-bolt the fuck out of some catholic buildings
[21:15:06] <Lucifer_arma> you know, until they pay me for their recent births
[21:15:41] <ct|kyle> reamember there are only a few "real" chuches
[21:15:48] <Lucifer_arma> Aix_: if it works, and you have a patch for build scripts, we might appreciate having those
[21:15:59] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: that's why he'd enjoy it if I hit the ones ruled over by the antipope
[21:16:16] <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what happens to his particular sect if they were to elect the current pope as their own?
[21:16:27] <Lucifer_arma> do they rejoin the mainstream catholics?
[21:16:36] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: what happens then?
[21:17:30] <ct|kyle> is that what the difference was, I never really figured out why only a select few were "real" churches
[21:17:47] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they were protesting the previous pope
[21:18:00] <Lucifer_arma> I think.  They might have split off before him.
[21:18:24] <Lucifer_arma> basically, they excommunicated themselves from the real catholic church when they lost an election
[21:18:33] <ct|kyle> I think we make have pissed luke-jr off too much to get a response
[21:18:47] <Lucifer_arma> nah, he's just working.
[21:18:54] <Aix_> Lucifer_arma: I'll put them in a repo over git and share them, will even add the touch screen controller bit I've been trying to get working
[21:19:09] <Lucifer_arma> or lost interest in hanging out here but hasn't bothered to remove this channel from his client
[21:19:16] <Lucifer_arma> Aix_: does sdl2 support touch screens?
[21:19:23] <ct|kyle> Aix_: yay git
[21:19:25] <Aix_> Yes
[21:19:37] <Aix_> SDL doesn't tho
[21:19:38] * Lucifer_arma has been considering switching to git, but is still using bzr out of habit.
[21:19:48] <Lucifer_arma> we've switched to sdl2, afaik
[21:19:57] <ct|kyle> make the switch, soo much better
[21:20:23] <Lucifer_arma> I know there's a mostly functional sdl2 branch.  That much I know.
[21:20:26] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: sdl2?
[21:20:49] <Lucifer_arma> should be early morning for him, he might respond :)
[21:20:53] <ct|kyle> it was voodoo's branch right?
[21:21:29] <Lucifer_arma> voodoo had an sdl2 branch, but iirc, quit working on it when sdl2 got dropped.  But then someone else picked up sdl2, and Z-man worked on it.
[21:21:36] <Lucifer_arma> no, wait, that's not it.
[21:21:50] <Lucifer_arma> voodoo had an sdl2 branch, z-man looked at it and found it incomplete, and worked on it himself
[21:22:14] <Lucifer_arma> that's why I'm thinking we made the switch, because I think we did.  :)  I thought Z-Man finished what he found incomplete in voodoo's branch.
[21:22:30] <Lucifer_arma> it was unicode support, mostly
[21:22:34] <ct|kyle> https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.4-armagetronad-sdl2
[21:22:52] <Lucifer_arma> so, did it get merged back to 0.4?
[21:23:02] * Lucifer_arma is vaguely remembering it getting merged back to 0.4.
[21:23:14] <Lucifer_arma> I guess I could do a pull and search the logs
[21:23:38] <Lucifer_arma> heh, no, wait, I can't.  I lost my ssh keys in the computer upgrade, and I haven't gotten around to updating Launchpad on it.
[21:23:50] <ct|kyle> lol
[21:24:14] <ct|kyle> github, would show it a lot better
[21:24:21] <Lucifer_arma> well, it's pulling right now.  I think I just can't push.  :)
[21:24:34] <ct|kyle> ya, usually that way
[21:25:26] <Lucifer_arma> revno: 1574 [merge]
[21:25:26] <Lucifer_arma> committer: Manuel Moos <z-man@users.sf.net>
[21:25:26] <Lucifer_arma> branch nick: armagetronad
[21:25:26] <Lucifer_arma> timestamp: Wed 2015-08-12 19:29:14 +0200
[21:25:26] <Lucifer_arma> message:
[21:25:28] <Lucifer_arma>   Merging sdl2 support.
[21:25:39] <ct|kyle> I just found that too :P
[21:25:42] <Lucifer_arma> that's in 0.4.armagetronad-work
[21:26:15] <ct|kyle> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.4-armagetronad-work/revision/1574
[21:26:19] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: nvm.  Turns out I still know how to use grep
[21:26:20] <ct|kyle> that is 0.4 though
[21:26:37] <Lucifer_arma> voodoo's branch was off 0.4, wasn't it?
[21:27:21] <ct|kyle> maybe, for some reason i thougth most of his code was 0.2.8 based
[21:27:55] <ct|kyle> no prior to scripting it was, then me and him both decided to try to focus on 0.4
[21:30:51] <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm still somewhat interested in moving on to 0.5 with panda3d :)
[21:30:55] <ct|kyle> https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-ct/armagetronad/0.4-sdl2
[21:31:58] <Lucifer_arma> considering that z-man's sdl2 merge was about a year later, I'm guessing he started with that
[21:32:11] <ct|kyle> that would be my guess
[21:32:31] <Lucifer_arma> I remember him starting with that, but I was pretty heavy-drinking at the time
[21:33:19] <ct|kyle> hmm, did not realize z-man touched sty and sty+ct last year
[21:33:27] <ct|kyle> for gcc6
[21:33:34] <Armanelgtron> +ap needs those fixes lol
[21:33:43] <ct|kyle> lol
[21:35:52] <ct|kyle> All I can say is github, makes all the merging / branching / forking a lot smoother
[21:35:59] <Armanelgtron> lol yes
[21:36:27] <Lucifer_arma> that's why I'm interested in github
[21:36:37] <Lucifer_arma> I've been watching other projects use it, and have been fairly impressed
[21:36:43] <ct|kyle> I need to do some small open source thing again
[21:36:55] <Lucifer_arma> I realize bzr can do the same stuff with launchpad, though
[21:36:55] <ct|kyle> trying to do at least 1 open source contribute a year
[21:37:03] <Lucifer_arma> ct|kyle: work on my game network library :)
[21:37:12] <Armanelgtron> I did put a little thing here: https://github.com/armagetronad-xtw/0.4-armagetronad-xtw/
[21:37:16] <Lucifer_arma> which reminds me, I should get back to work on it
[21:37:28] <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to get back to coding again, just coding in general for me, really
[21:38:14] <Aix_> maybe look at Mycroft ai - open-source digital assistant for Linux :)
[21:38:16] <Lucifer_arma> Armanelgtron: were you able to retain all the history when you did that?
[21:38:22] <ct|kyle> ya, I spend all day not coding at a coding job :P
[21:38:40] <Lucifer_arma> heh, for me it's more about this recovery-from-depression thing I'm working on
[21:38:49] <Lucifer_arma> you know, getting back to doing things that used to make you happy
[21:38:53] <Armanelgtron> I don't think I imported anything properly
[21:40:22] <ct|kyle> Lucfer_arma: I basically have 6 weeks, but first i need to make a super simple android app in kotlin
[21:40:24] <Lucifer_arma> Armanelgtron: that's one of the things stopping us from moving to git, and me from moving existing non-armagetron work to git
[21:40:40] <Lucifer_arma> 6 weeks in which you *can* contribute?
[21:40:54] <Lucifer_arma> do they pay you for it, or are you figuring in six weeks you'll be covered up in work at work?
[21:41:16] <ct|kyle> I have 6 weeks sarting now, (nights only) ,but I have that android app first
[21:41:54] <ct|kyle> in 6 weeks or so my night job starts up :P
[21:42:01] <Lucifer_arma> well, then, I'll try to have something in my game network library that's useful asap, if you're interested in working with it
[21:42:07] <Lucifer_arma> night job?  are you about to work two jobs?
[21:42:14] <ct|kyle> yes
[21:42:21] <Lucifer_arma> what's the job?
[21:42:46] <ct|kyle> maintining comunity swimming pools
[21:42:55] <Armanelgtron> Sounds...fun...
[21:42:58] <ct|kyle> Literally an every night job for 101 days
[21:43:12] <Lucifer_arma> sounds like it was a sentence handed down by a judge
[21:43:21] <Lucifer_arma> DWI?
[21:43:33] <ct|kyle> no, easy money
[21:43:45] <Lucifer_arma> it's *not* community service?
[21:43:50] <ct|kyle> nope
[21:44:07] <Lucifer_arma> do you do this every year when the swimming pools open?
[21:44:23] <Lucifer_arma> also, I'm surprised you have open swimming pools that far north.  Aren't you like covered in snow all year?
[21:44:25] <ct|kyle> I have for 6 years now
[21:44:40] <Armanelgtron> North? I thought he lived in the same state I did
[21:44:43] <Armanelgtron> Indiana
[21:45:01] <Lucifer_arma> hey, from where I'm sitting, that's pretty fucking north.  That's almost in Canada.
[21:45:18] <ct|kyle> almost, but not up to nsh22
[21:45:37] <Lucifer_arma> true dat.  He still in Canada?
[21:45:45] <ct|kyle> although he's not in canada anymore (at least lask i knew)
[21:45:45] <Lucifer_arma> I know he had an offer to go back to the UK...
[21:46:25] <Lucifer_arma> I talked to him a couple months ago, last, and he was talking about going back to the UK, but was having VISA problems.
[21:46:58] <ct|kyle> the last I knew was he had a 2 year job shadow over there?
[21:47:32] <Lucifer_arma> well, he spent awhile over there.  But his visa expired and he had to go back, and was back in toronto near the end of last year.
[21:47:44] <ct|kyle> ah
[21:48:04] <Lucifer_arma> he told me all about it right when I was telling him why my substance abuse group was shit and I quit it
[21:48:31] <Lucifer_arma> and that happened right before christmas
[21:49:16] <ct|kyle> ah, I haven't heard from him in ages, but I still got his blog on my RSS feed
[21:49:29] <Lucifer_arma> ah.  I have his number.  :)
[21:50:07] <Lucifer_arma> he's on my "mental illness" call list.  I'm supposed to call him before I call 911.
[21:50:34] <ct|kyle> so the number right before 911?
[21:50:51] <Lucifer_arma> no, before whatever's happening gets bad enough that I feel like I need to call 911
[21:51:07] <Lucifer_arma> nothing like that's happened for awhile, but I did spend Halloween last year in a mental hospital
[21:51:17] <Lucifer_arma> I'm doing better now.  :)
[21:51:34] <Lucifer_arma> but I finally got a formal Depression diagnosis
[21:51:42] <ct|kyle> btw how's the runaway
[21:51:48] <Lucifer_arma> still ranaway
[21:52:22] <ct|kyle> do you still know where she is?
[21:52:26] <Lucifer_arma> she's still doing all the same shit, but she's apparently gotten herself declared disabled and is collecting SSI (which is an improvement)
[21:52:28] <Lucifer_arma> Alice, TX
[21:52:59] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know where she's staying, I just know that she's still in-and-out of hospitals
[21:53:01] <ct|kyle> remind me not to drink the water in TX :P
[21:53:11] <Lucifer_arma> heh, wish I could blame the water
[21:53:16] <Lucifer_arma> this one's all genetics
[21:53:38] <Lucifer_arma> if you met the rest of my family, you'd be all "they're all batshit nuts"
[21:53:41] <ct|kyle> mutated genetics from the water :P
[21:53:52] <Lucifer_arma> family isn't from Texas, heh
[21:54:42] <Lucifer_arma> but you probably still shouldn't drink the water here.  one party state, and it's the GOP
[21:54:51] <Lucifer_arma> so our water quality isn't great.
[21:55:15] <ct|kyle> probbaoly better than flint
[21:55:36] <Lucifer_arma> only officially.  I wouldn't be surprised if we have water problems that haven't been exposed yet.
[21:58:09] <Lucifer_arma> it's disappointing there's no ada support for protocol buffers
[21:58:23] <Lucifer_arma> now I'm thinking about that lunar rover again, and wishing I could write it in ada
[21:58:32] <ct|kyle> I was suprised to see C# support
[21:58:34] <Lucifer_arma> but I feel like the tools for using ada just aren't there
[21:58:42] <Lucifer_arma> I wasn't, C# is pretty popular
[21:58:53] <Lucifer_arma> 99% of the people that use ada are in the DoD
[21:59:01] <ct|kyle> but semi supported javascript
[21:59:39] <Lucifer_arma> again, not surprising.  Javascript is mostly used in web apps and uses json and other http-based rpc messages
[22:00:25] <ct|kyle> not as much anymore though, hell you can make mobile apps with it now
[22:03:10] <Lucifer_arma> they still use json over http/https for getting data
[22:03:16] <Lucifer_arma> I was just googling on that, heh
[22:03:34] <Lucifer_arma> you can do push notifications with it, by installing a notifier inside of chrome
[22:03:43] <ct|kyle> yes, json is still used
[22:04:17] <Lucifer_arma> https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/
[22:04:25] <Lucifer_arma> service worker is the buzzword I was looking for, not notifier
[22:05:06] <Lucifer_arma> on my todo list: convert my website into a progressive web app
[22:05:14] <Armanelgtron> "Work reliably, no matter the network conditions" Even with NO network? 
[22:05:21] <Armanelgtron> Also, shouldn't work have an s?
[22:05:24] <Lucifer_arma> you know, since I still have to get it working with html5
[22:05:34] <Lucifer_arma> yes and no
[22:05:54] <Lucifer_arma> the idea is that the service workers would download content when they are connected to the network so that you can view/use/consume the content even when there's no network
[22:05:59] <Armanelgtron> Ah
[22:06:28] <Armanelgtron> I guess I should have uh read more of the page lol
[22:06:46] <Lucifer_arma> it'll alleviate the need to create separate apps for stuff that usually has a web app to support it anyway, like online banking, news sites, etc.
[22:07:13] <Lucifer_arma> instead of installing a special app to see your bank account, you'd have one of these service workers installed and you'd get a button to push to open it
[22:07:35] <Lucifer_arma> by using standards-compliant html5 and javascript, you basically develop the same web app for desktop browsers and mobile browsers.
[22:08:11] <Lucifer_arma> that's what's happening when you're browsing a web site and you get the dialog that says "This stupid website would like to send you notifications.  Allow?"
[22:08:19] <Lucifer_arma> they're asking if you want to install a service worker for their site.
[22:08:38] <ct|kyle> and I always say no :P
[22:08:56] <Lucifer_arma> I do, too, but apparently enough people do it that you could see a 100% increase in traffic
[22:09:24] <Lucifer_arma> so I could go from one or two monthly human visitors to a whopping 3 or 4!
[22:09:32] <Lucifer_arma> I'd do better if I just drew more comics, heh.
[22:10:34] <ct|kyle> don't you get about 60 robots a day too
[22:10:52] <Lucifer_arma> dunno.  I installed awstats so I wouldn't have to look at the bots anymore.
[22:11:13] <ct|kyle> So I'm 50% of your visitors
[22:11:29] <Lucifer_arma> heh, you really visit my website once a month?  I haven't updated it in several years...
[22:11:36] <Lucifer_arma> did you buy my book?
[22:11:54] <ct|kyle> I did go to it recently, and no
[22:12:09] <ct|kyle> I never find time to read books
[22:12:12] <Lucifer_arma> well, I have a really hilarious comic waiting to be scanned
[22:12:49] <Lucifer_arma> it was one of those that I was laughing otu loud while drawing it, so I'm probably the only person who finds it funny.
[22:13:06] <Lucifer_arma> I have to fix the software, though, because it doesn't add comics properly.  It adds them all to the same day.
[22:13:24] <Lucifer_arma> I'll do that after I have a working game network library.  I'll make that my reward for getting the network library to work.  :)
[22:13:47] <Lucifer_arma> of course, I'm sucking at rewards right now.  I have a bulldozer kit to build that I used as a reward for cleaning the living room.
[22:13:52] <Lucifer_arma> Clean living room: check.
[22:13:57] <Lucifer_arma> Assembled bulldozer: nope.
[22:14:11] <ct|kyle> lol
[22:14:53] <Lucifer_arma> I guess if the reward works, it doesn't matter if you claim it?
[22:15:18] <ct|kyle> I guess
[22:15:20] <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm a run to the store.  bbiab
[22:27:53] <Lucifer_arma> back!
[22:29:51] <Armanelgtron> in black!
[22:39:04] <Lucifer_arma> actually, I am wearing mostly black
[22:39:41] <Armanelgtron> heh
[22:46:04] <Lucifer_arma> I love writing code that should work, and then when I run it for the first time, there's 100 syntax errors
[22:49:56] *** Quits: Guest57901823 (LS@cpc76132-clif11-2-0-cust623.12-4.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[22:52:39] *** Joins: Long_Shoota (LS@cpc76132-clif11-2-0-cust623.12-4.cable.virginm.net)
[23:07:17] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: non-Catholics aren't eligible to become pope
[23:09:28] <luke-jr> ct|kyle: building a new PC
[23:09:42] <luke-jr> any idea if this needs an "indium pad" (whatever that is)? https://photos.app.goo.gl/ortJichXxSNo730Q2
[23:10:26] <Armanelgtron> Oh, heat sink surface? Is that for the CPU?
[23:10:38] <Armanelgtron> If so, you can just use normal thermal paste
[23:10:55] <luke-jr> don't know if I have any
[23:11:02] <luke-jr> but RAM doesn't arrive until Monday anyway
[23:11:22] <luke-jr> either way, they say "indium pad", so if that's what I need, that's what I'll get
[23:11:40] <luke-jr> no clue if anyone's ever tried paste on these
[23:12:21] <luke-jr> manual says "If no indium pad is present on the bottom of the heatsink assembly, carefully center an indium pad on top of the CPU."
[23:12:32] <luke-jr> so that's the question..
[23:14:36] <Lucifer_arma> the question is "What is an indium pad?"
[23:14:57] <Lucifer_arma> also, why do people continue to believe it was Galileo's scientific theory of heliocentrism that got him in trouble with the church?
[23:14:59] <luke-jr> yeah, DDG and NewEgg didn't answer that for me either
[23:15:08] <Lucifer_arma> it wasn't, it was his direct criticism of the pope
[23:15:11] <Armanelgtron> I think it's one of those thermal things which come on stock CPU coolers, but I'm not positive
[23:15:19] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: that's what schools indoctrinate with
[23:16:32] <Lucifer_arma> luke-jr: yeah, I know.  Just like that whole "The US won WWII and beat the Nazis"
[23:16:43] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, Indium is a brand name
[23:16:54] <Lucifer_arma> the pad itself is a thermal conductor made out of metal
[23:17:07] <Lucifer_arma> basically, it has higher therman conductivity than the thermal paste you'd use
[23:17:14] <Lucifer_arma> the question I have is why don't you still need the paste?
[23:17:34] <Lucifer_arma> the paste is just to fill in the microscopic gaps between the CPU and the heatsink
[23:17:44] <Lucifer_arma> does the pad manage to do that as well, so you no longer need the paste?
[23:17:52] <Armanelgtron> So I'm thinking that when the pad heats up, it spreads like thermal paste would
[23:17:56] <Lucifer_arma> if that's true, and the Indium website seems to indicate that it is, then I'd go for the pad
[23:20:42] <Lucifer_arma> http://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooling/1054484-indium-sheets-instead-thermal-paste.html
[23:21:03] <Lucifer_arma> according to that and the wikipedia page it links, the indium foil you'd use partially melts, which is why it replaces thermal paste
[23:21:11] <Lucifer_arma> so, bsically what Armanelgtron suggested
[23:21:44] <Lucifer_arma> and, finally, apparently Indium is an element
[23:21:45] <Lucifer_arma> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium
[23:21:56] <Lucifer_arma> now, here's a question:  Why am I doing luke-jr's research for him?
[23:22:22] <luke-jr> cuz DDG apparently sucks
[23:22:23] <Armanelgtron> Same reason I did your PCI 64bit slot research for you on the forums :P
[23:22:24] <Lucifer_arma> so, Indium is both a metal and a corporation, heh
[23:22:42] <Lucifer_arma> oh, wait, that means you were paying it forward, and you just saw the payoff!  ;)
[23:23:48] <Lucifer_arma> now it's luke-jr's turn to do someone else's research
[23:24:47] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I'm also getting tired of the period from 500AD-1500AD being called the Dark Ages
[23:25:03] <Armanelgtron> Yea, who turned the sun off during that period anyway! :D
[23:25:13] <Lucifer_arma> the only "Dark" age that happened is about 500AD-900AD, and it's called "dark" because of a lack of written records of what happened during that time
[23:25:49] <Lucifer_arma> there was a lot of technological advancement that happened in those thousand years we call the "Dark Ages", with plenty of social, philosophical, and religious advancement
[23:26:11] <Lucifer_arma> we just don't give enough credit to *how much* work was done because we went from horses to landing on the moon in less than 200 years
[23:26:16] <Lucifer_arma> grrrr
[23:26:38] <Lucifer_arma> this guy writes well-researched video game articles when he's talking about the video games, but seems to have little education outside that world
[23:26:48] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.filfre.net/
[23:27:38] <Lucifer_arma> for the record, Stargate SG-1 did the same thing, but managed to not fuck up the whole show with it
[23:30:00] <Lucifer_arma> "One could thus say that every American citizen, this one included, is indoctrinated in the narrative of progress before reaching adulthood."  Yep, I just called him out on it in this channel.
[23:30:05] <Lucifer_arma> I'll quit ranting now.
[23:32:59] <Lucifer_arma> how about an MMO blend of civiliztion and simcity?
[23:33:13] <Lucifer_arma> you know, where a few people would play at the civilization level, but most would play at the city level
[23:33:41] <Lucifer_arma> well, might as well add county and state to all of that, too
[23:33:44] <Lucifer_arma> or at least state
[23:33:53] <Lucifer_arma> then they could all argue with each other :)
[23:34:02] <luke-jr> you still play freeciv?
[23:37:56] <Lucifer_arma> is the sky still blue?
[23:38:10] <Lucifer_arma> are you still waiting for your balls to drop?
[23:38:14] <Lucifer_arma> ;)
[23:38:24] <Lucifer_arma> my kids are playing it now, too
[23:38:37] <Lucifer_arma> I went after my 14yo a few months ago because he insisted on nuking the ais
[23:38:44] <Lucifer_arma> so I built up quickly and invaded him
[23:38:48] <Lucifer_arma> he apologized :)
[23:38:56] <luke-jr> I use nukes sometimes
[23:39:04] <luke-jr> usually when the AIs are global warming the heck out of me
[23:39:17] <Lucifer_arma> how the hell do you get AIs global warming you?
[23:39:21] <luke-jr> (nukes restore the land quickly, which can then be defrosted by their warming)
[23:39:28] <luke-jr> dunno
[23:39:41] <Lucifer_arma> I barely encounter them using fighters
[23:39:49] <Lucifer_arma> maybe you're playing a newer version?
[23:39:56] <luke-jr> don't need to encounter them to be global warm'd
[23:39:59] <Lucifer_arma> I just upgraded to ubuntu 17.10
[23:40:06] <luke-jr> but I play with a small crowded map usually
[23:40:08] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, they don't even build factories
[23:40:21] <Lucifer_arma> they don't create any pollution at all for me
[23:40:27] <luke-jr> weird
[23:40:30] <luke-jr> even on Hard?
[23:40:41] <Lucifer_arma> hmmm, been awhile since I tried hard ais
[23:40:52] <luke-jr> I do use a custom ruleset, but I didn't tweak any of the pollution stuff
[23:40:58] <Lucifer_arma> guess I got used to using Easy/Normal, since there didn't used to be a difference
[23:41:29] <luke-jr> (I get cannons before muskets)
[23:43:17] <Lucifer_arma> how do you get cannons before muskets?
[23:43:23] <Lucifer_arma> did you change the ruleset that much?
[23:45:57] <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/ljr_ruleset.tbz2
[23:47:24] <luke-jr> or a diff from 2.5's multiplayer rules: http://dpaste.com/2GZRTBV
[23:52:53] <Lucifer_arma> I would remove the bitcoin building if I were going to play it
[23:53:12] <luke-jr> I don't think I've ever actually built it XD
[23:53:51] <Lucifer_arma> I went ahead and downloaded it.  What version is it for?
[23:54:43] <luke-jr> 2.5.x
[23:55:09] <luke-jr> (also, keep in mind before you can build Bitcoin, you take a penalty from P2P)
[23:55:50] <Armanelgtron> Say, luke-jr, COMPLETELY off-topic, but are you the maintainer of http://beta.armagetronad.net/ ?
[23:56:10] <luke-jr> not since 2009 I guess?
[23:56:19] * luke-jr wonders where that's even hosted
[23:57:15] <Armanelgtron> It could *cough* do with an update LOL
[23:57:43] <Armanelgtron> I like some of the jokes "make you play GLTron" hmmm :P
[23:58:13] <Lucifer_arma> apparently 2.5.9 is what's in the repos for me right now
[23:58:38] <Lucifer_arma> I was previously using 2.5.3
[23:58:53] * Lucifer_arma thinks Light might be running the beta site these days
[23:59:08] <Lucifer_arma> not sure.  We keep asking him to formally join the team, and he keeps saying no.
[23:59:14] <Lucifer_arma> so I, for one, have quit asking.
[23:59:40] <Armanelgtron> I have more download versions :P https://www.armanelgtron.tk/download/
[23:59:44] <Lucifer_arma> on that subject, Armanelgtron: I had a PM from Z-man at one point wanting to add you to the team, but I was going through that mental health shit I mentioned earlier
[23:59:52] <Lucifer_arma> and he couldn't reach guru3 at the time, I don't think
[23:59:55] <Lucifer_arma> did he add you?

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