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Log from 2016-02-09:
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Feb 09 03:49:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Bernie's winning!  :)
Feb 09 03:50:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	out of like 40 votes or so
Feb 09 03:50:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	in New Hamster
Feb 09 04:11:28 2016 <theocrite>	Unfortunately, if Bernie wins, then the republican candidate will propably be elected.
Feb 09 04:12:43 2016 <theocrite>	USA is not ready.
Feb 09 04:20:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	All the polls show Bernie beating the republicans easily
Feb 09 04:20:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Clinton loses to Cruz, Bernie wins narrowly
Feb 09 04:20:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we're ready for Bernie.  Hell, we've had 8 years of Obama, and he's not even a socialist
Feb 09 04:20:53 2016 *	Lucifer_arma thinks Obama has been a really great president
Feb 09 04:21:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	not sure how Bernie compares to Rubio, and the way things are going, I really think it's going to be either Rubio or Christie that wins the nomination
Feb 09 04:22:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but I don't think either of them have the ground game needed in each state
Feb 09 04:23:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Clinton fucked that up during the last primary she contested, and she went into this one with the same "just crown me now" attitude she had last time
Feb 09 04:23:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Bernie will clean the floor with his GOP opponents.  He just has to get past Clinton.
Feb 09 04:24:16 2016 <theocrite>	Well I hope you're right. About "he's not even a socialist", that's the point. USA is very afraid of socialism. Every time I speak to someone in the US I hear things like "I don't want to give my money to lazy people" "communism doesn't work".
Feb 09 04:24:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and I'm sorry Hillary's run against such better candidates.  I would love to vote for her, and if she wins the nomination, I will vote for her
Feb 09 04:24:29 2016 <theocrite>	I don't think a lot of people really understand socialism.
Feb 09 04:24:38 2016 <theocrite>	But maybe I don't speak to the right people.
Feb 09 04:24:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	a lot of people understand Bernie's message.  He's a democratic socialist, aka a European socialist.
Feb 09 04:25:01 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Which isn't helpful, I realize
Feb 09 04:25:30 2016 <theocrite>	Offtopic: Are you using emacs/ERC?
Feb 09 04:25:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm in the middle of Texas, a notoriously conservative state.  But I'm in the capitol, a notoriously liberal place.  And I haven't yet met a Clinton supporter
Feb 09 04:25:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	dunno what ERC is, don't use emacs
Feb 09 04:26:29 2016 <theocrite>	It's just that you end your sentences with a '.' and then you use 2 whitespace. Exactly like some people using Emacs.
Feb 09 04:26:31 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I fist-bumped a Bernie supporter earlier when I was checking my kid into a mental hospital (whose bills would be paid by the state if Bernie gets elected)
Feb 09 04:26:57 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	That's American typography.  We're taught to end sentences with a "." and then two spaces.
Feb 09 04:27:17 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it's part of the curriculum.  That's why HTML is so weird to us.
Feb 09 04:27:50 2016 <theocrite>	Oh I see.
Feb 09 04:28:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you have to differentiate between me saying "This is Dr. Blah PhD. who will be handling your case" and "This is Dr Blah PhD.  He will be handling your case."
Feb 09 04:28:27 2016 <theocrite>	My French friends using Emacs are using that double spaces rule. Maybe it's because it's in Emacs, maybe not.
Feb 09 04:28:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	or so we're told.  heh.
Feb 09 04:28:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I wouldn't know anything about Emacs, other than it's the reason GNU never got a real kernel.
Feb 09 04:29:05 2016 <theocrite>	Emacs is the reason for that?
Feb 09 04:29:08 2016 <theocrite>	oO
Feb 09 04:29:10 2016 <theocrite>	How so?
Feb 09 04:29:15 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	See, Linus Torvalds turned a terminal program into a kernel.  GNU had a word processor.  Obvious problem there!
Feb 09 04:29:32 2016 *	Lucifer_arma make a joke, ha-ha!
Feb 09 04:29:59 2016 <theocrite>	:)
Feb 09 04:30:13 2016 <theocrite>	Yeah, who needs a kernel when you already have a full OS.
Feb 09 04:30:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	then the individualists at GNU decided to name their kernel "HURD".  OOOOoooopsssssssieeeeesssssss!
Feb 09 04:31:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	THEN they made it a "microkernel".  Um, Linux has a bigger dick?
Feb 09 04:31:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I could go on about how GNU fucked up on their kernel.  You got me started, let me stop now, please.  ;)
Feb 09 04:32:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	getting back to the election, Trump ain't gonna win shit.  He talks a big game, but he doesn't have enough support from enough people.  He has enough to show well in the polls, but Cruz, Rubio, and Christie will eat at his numbers
Feb 09 04:33:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Of those, Christie is the most liked establishment candidate.
Feb 09 04:33:29 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	We might see the GOP finally lose its shit and break off into two parties, which I would like, because that would ensure either Bernie or Hillary wins, and I'll take either
Feb 09 04:33:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but I'm for Bernie
Feb 09 04:33:45 2016 <theocrite>	I don't think he can win either, unfortunately. I think it would have been funny if he won. Sometimes, having the worst helps being vaccinated (I'm not sure about that word) for a while.
Feb 09 04:34:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I was for Obama when he "couldn't win" in 2007, and I had loads of people tell me I was a moron for that
Feb 09 04:34:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	WELL WHO'S COUNTING NOW????  :)
Feb 09 04:34:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Trump can't win.  He might be able to win the nomination, but he can't win the general election.  Not against the players that are competing on the other side.
Feb 09 04:35:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and it wouldn't be funny if he won.  I'm thinking nuclear holocaust if he wins.  He's fucking evil.
Feb 09 04:35:40 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You might find him scary, just try being an American who gives a shit and looking at him.  He's going to take the world out.
Feb 09 04:37:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	He won't just torture people.  He'll look at our weapons situation and say "Hey, we got tactical nukes?  They violate treaties?  I don't care!  Use them!"
Feb 09 04:37:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm sure you can guess what Russia would do about that.  Then, nuclear winter for all of us.
Feb 09 04:37:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	That's a Trump presidency.
Feb 09 04:37:25 2016 <theocrite>	Nah, he uses his big mouth to provoke. But I don't think he would do so much. Or can (cause of the congress & all, he cannot do everything). But again I'm not from the USA, so I might be wrong about how things work there.
Feb 09 04:37:44 2016 <theocrite>	So I guess the best configuration would be Bernie vs Trump?
Feb 09 04:37:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	he's commander-in-chief, if he wins.
Feb 09 04:38:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'd love to see a Bernie vs Trump election, but I'd really like to see the GOP get their shit together and nominate Christie.
Feb 09 04:38:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	He's reasonably moderate, I might even vote for him, and it says bad things if they nominate Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.
Feb 09 04:38:55 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Bush isn't even tracking.  He'll have better luck in a different election year, like 2004, for example.
Feb 09 04:38:57 2016 <theocrite>	What about Ted Bush?
Feb 09 04:39:03 2016 <theocrite>	Heh.
Feb 09 04:39:23 2016 <theocrite>	You already elected 2, why not a 3rd? :)
Feb 09 04:39:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	The GOP's coming apart at the seems.  The problem is that the Democrats are also coming apart.
Feb 09 04:39:45 2016 <Luke-Jr>	only supporting someone pro-life
Feb 09 04:39:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Um, I think that question answers itself
Feb 09 04:40:23 2016 <Luke-Jr>	wish Rand didn't give up
Feb 09 04:40:29 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr is a single issue voter.  Doesn't care about nuclear holocaust or anything like that.  Just that we ensure that babies that are conceived are protected, and we slaughter black men in prison
Feb 09 04:40:45 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: the other issues can wait 4 years
Feb 09 04:41:01 2016 <Luke-Jr>	once we have babykillers being prosecuted, we can move on
Feb 09 04:41:09 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr: which issues?  The genocide of black people that's currently happening?  That can wait?
Feb 09 04:41:22 2016 <Luke-Jr>	the genocide of black people is mostly pre-born
Feb 09 04:41:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	no, it's all on death row
Feb 09 04:41:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	theocrite: great, now Luke-Jr is here.  Ready for an epic argument?
Feb 09 04:42:08 2016 <theocrite>	Not ready I'm about to leave to go to work.
Feb 09 04:42:14 2016 <Luke-Jr>	death row is tiny compared to the slaughter of the unborn
Feb 09 04:42:15 2016 <theocrite>	s/ready/really/
Feb 09 04:42:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	right, slaughtering innocent people in the name of justice is somehow less than aborting a fetus that would otherwise grow up to be someone on death row
Feb 09 04:43:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you know the difference between preventive maintenance and repair, right?
Feb 09 04:43:20 2016 <Luke-Jr>	the people are death row aren't innocent
Feb 09 04:43:25 2016 <Luke-Jr>	the unborn actually are
Feb 09 04:43:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	(don't worry, I'm not going to hang in here too long either)
Feb 09 04:43:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	um, based on various numbers, up to 25% AT LEAST of people on death row ARE INNOCENT
Feb 09 04:44:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't see you running out there to stop their deaths
Feb 09 04:44:10 2016 <Luke-Jr>	even if some races get away with crimes more often (which I'm not necessarily conceding), that doesn't make those caught any less guilty.
Feb 09 04:44:13 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you're more like "Oh no, you were convicted, and that's it"
Feb 09 04:44:37 2016 <theocrite>	Everytime I hear someone talking about "genocide of pre-born" I think about this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/03/05/brazil-church-excommunicates-mom-doctors-after-raped-year-old-has-abortion.html
Feb 09 04:44:38 2016 <dbdbot>	Title: Brazil Church Excommunicates Mom, Doctors After Raped 9-Year-Old Has Abortion | Fox News (at www.foxnews.com)
Feb 09 04:44:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	"I realize the justice system doesn't work when I'm charged with a crime, but it works when it's you, and you're black, so you're dead"
Feb 09 04:44:51 2016 <Luke-Jr>	in any case, even if 100% of death row were innocent, that's less than 1% of those slaughered in abortions
Feb 09 04:44:59 2016 <theocrite>	It's ok if you rape a child, but abortion for a 9 years old girl? Oh god no!
Feb 09 04:45:11 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: murder is worse than rape, idiot
Feb 09 04:45:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	murder of an unborn child who was conceived through rape is worse than abortion?
Feb 09 04:45:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	really?
Feb 09 04:45:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	what twisted value system are you using, anyway?
Feb 09 04:45:54 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: that question doesn't evne parse
Feb 09 04:45:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	oh, right, fundamentalist catholic.  You're still stuck on that?
Feb 09 04:46:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	haven't you grown up yet?
Feb 09 04:46:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it totally "evne" parses
Feb 09 04:46:49 2016 <theocrite>	Luke-Jr: see, that's why I fear religious people. They force their view into yours and then call you idiot. Also they think everything is absolute. Black and white. There are no shades of grey.
Feb 09 04:47:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	theocrite: you better hurry up and go to work, because if we continue this argument, you're calling in late
Feb 09 04:47:14 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: truth is in fact absolute, though
Feb 09 04:47:34 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: murder of an unborn child who was conceived through rape literally /is/ abortion
Feb 09 04:47:35 2016 <theocrite>	Actually I'm already late. I need to hurry either way. :)
Feb 09 04:47:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr: no, reality doesn't exist in black and white.  It's all shades of grey.
Feb 09 04:47:46 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: that's just your delusions
Feb 09 04:48:01 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr: but the rapist was the murderer, the one who forced, without consent of the mother, the child to be conceived
Feb 09 04:48:13 2016 <Luke-Jr>	nonsense
Feb 09 04:48:15 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she just corrected that
Feb 09 04:48:22 2016 <Luke-Jr>	murder is not a correction
Feb 09 04:48:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she didn't do the murder, the rapist did it.  So he's a rapist AND a murderer.
Feb 09 04:48:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she wouldn't need the abortion if he hadn't raped her.
Feb 09 04:49:12 2016 <Luke-Jr>	she never needed the abortion
Feb 09 04:49:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	yes, she needed it after she was RAPED
Feb 09 04:49:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you're ok with someone forcing a kid onto your wife/girlfriend?
Feb 09 04:49:38 2016 <Luke-Jr>	her mother is guilty of murder-for-hire
Feb 09 04:49:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you'll raise that kid as your own?
Feb 09 04:49:52 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: if someone rapes my wife, I will raise the child as my own, yes
Feb 09 04:49:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	knowing it's not yours?
Feb 09 04:49:55 2016 <Luke-Jr>	that is the only decent thing to do
Feb 09 04:50:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I think abortion is the only decent thing to do
Feb 09 04:50:10 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	hey, did our audience leave?
Feb 09 04:50:13 2016 <Luke-Jr>	murdering the innocent baby is not decent ever
Feb 09 04:50:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it's not so fun to argue with you when there's no audience.  We already know how each other thinks, and we're not changing each other's minds.
Feb 09 04:50:33 2016 <Luke-Jr>	(clarification: adoption would also be decent, but I wouldn't do that)
Feb 09 04:50:42 2016 *	player_42_ is still munching popcorn
Feb 09 04:50:43 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: and you're still wrong
Feb 09 04:50:44 2016 <theocrite>	BTW faith was also absolute when Giordano Bruno was executed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno#Imprisonment.2C_trial_and_execution.2C_1593.E2.80.931600 So it goes rape < murder < questionning Church?
Feb 09 04:50:45 2016 <dbdbot>	Title: Giordano Bruno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
Feb 09 04:51:03 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	no, you're wrong
Feb 09 04:51:20 2016 <theocrite>	After all he said that earth wasn't the center of the universe, and maybe there was life somewhere else.
Feb 09 04:51:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	tell me, do you support TANF and/or SNAP for needy families?
Feb 09 04:51:49 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: s/questioning Church/heresy/
Feb 09 04:51:59 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: I don't recognise those acronyms
Feb 09 04:52:19 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: that wasn't all he said
Feb 09 04:52:39 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: St. Thomas Aquinas speculated on the latter, and the former was *conceived of* by *Fr.* Copernicus
Feb 09 04:53:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	TANF = temporary assistance for needy families.  SNAP = food stamps (it's supplemental nutritional assistance program)
Feb 09 04:53:16 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: if that's what's necessary to end abortion, great
Feb 09 04:53:23 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Basically, after the state forces a woman to have a baby, are you willing to use your tax dollars to pay child support?
Feb 09 04:53:43 2016 <Luke-Jr>	ideally, charity should be freely organised, not forced through the State; but if society is too corrupt to do it on their own, I agree the State ought to step in
Feb 09 04:53:57 2016 <theocrite>	Luke-Jr: so it's ok to burn people for heresy?
Feb 09 04:54:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	there's no charity in a forced child birth
Feb 09 04:54:14 2016 <Luke-Jr>	theocrite: the State may, yes
Feb 09 04:54:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I get that you're a single issue voter, and as such, you may not have someone to vote for this time aroound
Feb 09 04:54:45 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: Florida doesn't allow Catholics to vote anyway
Feb 09 04:54:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	yeah they do, silly
Feb 09 04:54:57 2016 <Luke-Jr>	nope
Feb 09 04:55:07 2016 <Luke-Jr>	go read the FL Constitution sometime
Feb 09 04:55:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	they don't allow asshats to vote, maybe
Feb 09 04:55:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	are you registered to vote?  have you voted?
Feb 09 04:55:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it may be in their constitution, but there happens to be a SCOTUS decision that renders it obsolete
Feb 09 04:55:46 2016 <Luke-Jr>	registering to vote requires taking an oath of heresy
Feb 09 04:55:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you need to quit focusing on what's in your immediate view and look at the broader picture
Feb 09 04:56:01 2016 <Luke-Jr>	is there? FL apparently ignores it in practice
Feb 09 04:56:22 2016 <Luke-Jr>	de facto, I am not allowed to vote if I try
Feb 09 04:56:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you really have to take an oath?  I just had to fill out paperwork.
Feb 09 04:56:27 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: yes
Feb 09 04:56:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	then sue
Feb 09 04:56:42 2016 <player_42_>	Wait what? The state should burn people for registering to vote?
Feb 09 04:56:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm sure the Satanic Temple would take your side for religious freedom
Feb 09 04:56:56 2016 <Luke-Jr>	player_42_: lolwut
Feb 09 04:57:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	or just threaten to sue.  After FL lost to the Satanic Temple, you can capitalize on that.
Feb 09 04:57:41 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: no time; the elections are rigged anyway
Feb 09 04:57:42 2016 <player_42_>	You just agreed that it's ok to burn people for heresy
Feb 09 04:57:55 2016 *	Lucifer_arma is enjoying the rise of Satanism.  No surprise at all.
Feb 09 04:57:56 2016 <Luke-Jr>	player_42_: the State may != the State should
Feb 09 04:58:10 2016 <Luke-Jr>	player_42_: and I was abbreviating the problem. the oath isn't to heresy itself, but to defend heresy.
Feb 09 04:58:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	unless they're mothers that have had abortions
Feb 09 04:58:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr would kill my wife if he ever met her, but he won't acknowledge her as my wife.
Feb 09 04:58:37 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: most "Satanists" these days are just atheists
Feb 09 04:58:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	But I'd kill him if he made the wrong moves at her, no questions asked.  Just like in Freeciv.  Nuke everything.
Feb 09 04:59:11 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: I am not a State
Feb 09 04:59:35 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr: I'll still kill you if you look at my wife funny for having had more than one abortion.
Feb 09 04:59:39 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	in a heartbeat.
Feb 09 04:59:49 2016 <Luke-Jr>	Lucifer_arma: if you tried, you'd be dead first
Feb 09 04:59:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	shoot you in the back, with the gun I don't own.
Feb 09 04:59:59 2016 <Luke-Jr>	see, I actually do own at least one gun
Feb 09 05:00:04 2016 <player_42_>	Meh, i'm on a phone and technically at work, so i'll just read along
Feb 09 05:00:26 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Luke-Jr: You can own that gun all you want, it won't stop me from snapping your neck.
Feb 09 05:00:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You'll still be loading it when I lay in my attack.
Feb 09 05:00:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Just like in freeciv.
Feb 09 05:00:52 2016 <Luke-Jr>	I keep it loaded.
Feb 09 05:01:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	On Sunday.  You know, Jesus Day.
Feb 09 05:01:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Other days?  Yeah, maybe it's still loaded.  Which means you'll misfire because of the dust collected since the last time you fired it.
Feb 09 05:01:58 2016 <Luke-Jr>	I have sufficient property to practice at home.
Feb 09 05:02:03 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Are we done with this showmanship Luke-Jr vs Lucifer crap?
Feb 09 05:05:14 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'll be honest.  As much as I love you, Luke-Jr, and I do, I don't want to have to kill you in self defense if we should ever meet.  I will, if I have to, but I don't want to.  Love.  Jesus preaching.  Love.
Feb 09 05:05:49 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Maybe you should listen to Jesus more.
Feb 09 05:36:43 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	old school still wins....as long as you're not clumsy
Feb 09 05:36:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I was clumsy
Feb 09 05:36:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I still won a lot more than I should have
Feb 09 05:39:25 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	It is curious that I was asked "Who was your trainer?"
Feb 09 05:39:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Um, I don't know, last time I checked, nobody trained me
Feb 09 05:39:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Interesting
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Feb 09 15:33:52 2016 <AmarokNelg>	"Most users ever online was 569 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:24 am" lol oreally?
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Feb 09 15:50:23 2016 <Lightron>	Gonna assume they're hitting port 80 with an actual request?  The user agent could always be checked and weeded out to help avoid extra work with the database and data sent back.
Feb 09 15:50:45 2016 <Lightron>	Assuming they're not spoofing a real browser.  They don't seem to have bothered trying to make things too pretty as of yet.
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Feb 09 15:59:13 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it would be trivial to make an actual http request, and it would load the server up more than just pings
Feb 09 16:01:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you'd think that after Iowa, people would quit using Trump's poll numbers to predict a win
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Feb 09 17:04:11 2016 <z-man>	Forums are borked, so here are the ladle recordings: http://vps-zman.armagetronad.org/~manuel/armarecordings/ladle102/
Feb 09 17:04:12 2016 <dbdbot>	Title: Index of /~manuel/armarecordings/ladle102 (at vps-zman.armagetronad.org)
Feb 09 17:32:44 2016 <z-man>	And my master server at home is now a raspi. Woo!
Feb 09 17:34:09 2016 <z-man>	Now I just need to get rid of the bzr-svn syncing and I can retire the poor old laptop that has been running 24/7 for the past ten years.
Feb 09 17:34:47 2016 <z-man>	It survived TWO dell successors.
Feb 09 17:53:10 2016 <ct|kyle>	z-man: so why don't we go after this asshat?
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Feb 09 19:56:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	if anyone's interested in the New Hamster primary: https://www.washingtonpost.com/2016-election-results/new-hampshire/
Feb 09 19:56:48 2016 <dbdbot>	Title: New Hampshire Election Results 2016: Live Maps, Polling, Analysis, Schedule, Complete Updates - The Washington Post (at www.washingtonpost.com)
Feb 09 19:59:40 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: use this instead http://trumpdonald.org/
Feb 09 19:59:41 2016 <dbdbot>	Title: TrumpDonald.org (at trumpdonald.org)
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Feb 09 20:04:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	that's awesome ct|kyle
Feb 09 20:12:10 2016 <Lightron>	+1 to Kyle. :P
Feb 09 20:12:41 2016 <Lightron>	Yours made me happy too, Luci.  Just not quite so entertained. lol
Feb 09 20:23:29 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	The GOP race just got interesting.  Kasich in second?  Really?
Feb 09 20:35:53 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: it's been interesting the whole time, where have you been
Feb 09 20:36:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	eh?  I've been watching.  Trump's a dickhead, and it looked like Cruz/Rubio/Bush were going to be the next ones up.
Feb 09 20:36:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but with what's going on in New Hamster, Kasich might come out of this a contender
Feb 09 20:36:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	that'll shake up the race quite a bit
Feb 09 20:36:56 2016 <ct|kyle>	Except for that one debate, (3 or 4 ago)
Feb 09 20:37:18 2016 *	nelg-bot (~nelg-bot@172.76.248.33) has joined #armagetron
Feb 09 20:37:28 2016 <AmarokNelg>	stupid bot
Feb 09 20:38:19 2016 <ct|kyle>	I really think rand paul should have stayed in for this one, with the crazy results, he could have been in contention for second also
Feb 09 20:39:39 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: when does Texas (or are you still in TX) have thier primary?
Feb 09 20:39:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Well, I'm not watching the debates.  I already know who I'm for on the demo side, and I'm not interested in watching Trump
Feb 09 20:40:01 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we're on Super Tuesday, which is March 1, iirc
Feb 09 20:40:54 2016 <ct|kyle>	I have to wait to may 3 :/
Feb 09 20:41:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Kasich is both closing on Trump, with a lot of distance to cover, but increasing over Bush
Feb 09 20:41:06 2016 <ct|kyle>	so most likely it'll be decided by then
Feb 09 20:41:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm not voting in the primary.  In Texas, that's how you declare party affiliation.  I really want my local politicians to see me as an independent who has to be swayed to their side
Feb 09 20:41:57 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Bernie is trouncing Hillary pretty hard right now.
Feb 09 20:42:17 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	the state her husband won easily won't nominate her, haha
Feb 09 20:42:49 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	also, apparently we have 222 delegates for the dem side
Feb 09 20:43:19 2016 <ct|kyle>	ya, it'll be interesting if he makes it to IN again, she still had a chance 8 years ago when it got that far
Feb 09 20:43:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I see a lot of support for bernie, bush, and cruz around Austin
Feb 09 20:43:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	man, that primary was crazy ;)
Feb 09 20:44:03 2016 *	Lucifer_arma loved every minute of the 2008 primary, especially when Obama finally won
Feb 09 20:44:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I told people in December '07 that I wanted Obama to win, and I got a few people talking shit to me about it
Feb 09 20:44:39 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	WHO'S LAUGHING NOW MUTHERFUCKAS?!?!?  hUH?
Feb 09 20:44:40 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	;)
Feb 09 20:44:56 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: i never voted for him
Feb 09 20:45:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	if Bernie's a contender, the race won't be decided before IN
Feb 09 20:45:23 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	wait, you were too young, weren't you?
Feb 09 20:45:31 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	didn't you turn 18 like last month or so?
Feb 09 20:45:35 2016 <ct|kyle>	too many people want more and more, but they only way they get it is with more and more of the bill of rights going away
Feb 09 20:45:54 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: i'm almost 27
Feb 09 20:46:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we don't have to give up any liberty to demand increased government services
Feb 09 20:46:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	that's just the compromise the government offers us.  "Want better security?  Submit to security scanning"
Feb 09 20:46:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and assholes vote FOR that stuff
Feb 09 20:46:55 2016 <ct|kyle>	yes we do, increased government -> incread taxess -> less money -> less finatial freedom
Feb 09 20:47:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you must be making a shitload of money if increasing taxes is going to be a burden for you
Feb 09 20:47:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	also, you'd have to be living beyond your means WHILE making a shitload of money
Feb 09 20:48:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	the problem with taxes is that people in the 80k-150k range pay 33% or so, while people above that pay only 25%
Feb 09 20:48:13 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I think I can see a place where we can raise taxes without hurting anybody
Feb 09 20:48:44 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: I'm still for a federal sales tax only
Feb 09 20:48:59 2016 <ct|kyle>	it should not be based on income, only what we spend
Feb 09 20:49:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	hell, we'd gain $500/month in income if the government just took over healthcare.  I'd gladly pay an extra $25/month in taxes for that ;)
Feb 09 20:49:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	nah, that disproportionately hurts poor people.  You might have no problems shitting out another 8% for every purchase, but for people at the poverty line, that extra 8% could mean the difference between food every day and not
Feb 09 20:50:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I like the tiered income tax system, but ours is riddled with problems that could be fixed
Feb 09 20:51:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	going afk to make dinner.  I'm sure we'll have plenty of opportunity to debate policy during this election cycle ;)
Feb 09 20:51:40 2016 <ct|kyle>	I'm not against helping those under the poverty line, for food and whatnot, we do that anyway.
Feb 09 20:59:39 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'd be interested in adding to our federal tax code provisions that taxed the states, rather than the people, and let states decide how to spread the tax burden around
Feb 09 21:01:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	also, I'm pretty much in favor of cutting medicaid and other services to the poor, so long as we raise the minimum wage to at least $15 an hour.
Feb 09 21:02:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	In fact, that'd be how it would work.  We double minimum wage, and then most people collecting low income benefits will fail to qualify because they'll have enough money
Feb 09 21:03:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	also, the increased tax revenue from the increased wages would be tremendous
Feb 09 21:04:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and the increased economic activity...
Feb 09 21:04:22 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: I'd like to fund education, but not in the way it is curently working, standardized tests don't do well. All the techers do anymore are team for a test, they fail to apply the concepts to the real world. I fell behind in reading / writting because 1) did not feel like writting something about me for my teacher to read. and 2) I had no interest in the books they had us read
Feb 09 21:07:09 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: with an increase in minimum wage, we would loose a lot of jobs, more people under poverty because there are no jobs for them
Feb 09 21:08:44 2016 <ct|kyle>	but education at the federal level is horible, the school district that i was in recieve < $100 from the gevernment and of cource had to comply with no child left behind
Feb 09 21:12:10 2016 <ct|kyle>	and the district probaboly had about 6,000 students
Feb 09 21:16:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we won't lose jobs.  99% of current minimum wage jobs are food and retail, which you may notice as being location-dependent
Feb 09 21:16:55 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Also, under severe pressure, Wal-mart, Target, and some of the other big department stores are already paying at least $12/hour
Feb 09 21:17:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Academy, where my wife works, bumped her up over $15/hour when they made that change in pay.  (She's a Senior Team Lead, so not getting their smallest wage paid)
Feb 09 21:17:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	as to increased costs/fear of inflation, there will be cost increases, which might amount to something like 50 cents per Big Mac
Feb 09 21:18:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and that cost increase will be shared by *all* wage earners, not disproportionately thrown on the backs of the lowest earners
Feb 09 21:18:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and yes, we need no child left behind to be gone.  I don't remember Obama getting it repealed early, before there was too much Republican opposition
Feb 09 21:20:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it's a way of punishing schools that perform poorly due to inaccurate measuring (standardized tests) by taking away their resources and asking them to do even better
Feb 09 21:20:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	just the dumbest idea anybody ever had.
Feb 09 21:21:32 2016 <ct|kyle>	But there really should be a way for a family to live off of 1 job, This is the root of a lot of the behavioral problems, kids have grown up basically  parentless.
Feb 09 21:21:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	as it stands right now, anybody who works full time and has to collect government benefits to make ends meet is effectively subsidizing their low wage with tax dollars
Feb 09 21:22:02 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: it's not jsut schools, teachers pay now is based on that
Feb 09 21:22:20 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	well, around here, teachers' pay is set by the school board ;)
Feb 09 21:22:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	the principal has little say in how much they get paid, only in whether or not they get paid (s/he can fire teachers)
Feb 09 21:23:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but no child left behind does proscribe stuff the school districts have to do.  It's all just terrible.
Feb 09 21:23:14 2016 <ct|kyle>	was not sure if it was IN only or fed for aht one, but next year the teachers raises are purely based on thier students performance
Feb 09 21:23:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we should eliminate all the testing and focus on essays to demonstrate understanding and knowledge, and math math math
Feb 09 21:24:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	that might be fed.  But the federal government doesn't cut the funding, necessarily.  They'll require the districts to do that.
Feb 09 21:24:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and fund band, orchestra, drama, debate, etc.  The fun stuff.  Kids that are engaged in their schools really fucking pay attention.
Feb 09 21:24:55 2016 <ct|kyle>	i see the problem with math, is there are many ways to perform an operation, I was good at it, but only because i would not listen to the teacher since I had already found my way of doing something.
Feb 09 21:25:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	well, the common core math looks awesome to me.  They're really teaching all sorts of different ways of looking at numbers.
Feb 09 21:25:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I see the early stuff that people bitch about looking ridiculous really making it easier to learn algebra, trig, and calculus
Feb 09 21:26:01 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you know, later on
Feb 09 21:29:54 2016 <ct|kyle>	I agree, and in my scool i never saw the connection of the differnt subjects until way to late. for sintance if math story problems were part of reading, I would have been more engaged in reading early on. and since they only accounted for a very small part of math, reading was something that i was not very engaged in.
Feb 09 21:31:54 2016 <ct|kyle>	In high school, I finally had a reading teacher connect reading / writting to math. After the next year he was essentually fired
Feb 09 21:34:53 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: Anyway i think we pretty much so would agree on what education should be. I would be for getting rid of the cores and group them into 1, exploration, at least in the eyes of the students.
Feb 09 21:36:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	There's really not a lot of reason for the amount of separation that exists between the cores
Feb 09 21:36:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	kids can learn to read and write while studying history
Feb 09 21:37:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	a linguistics core that covered language structure could cover grammar while also discussing other languages, making it easier to learn languages later in life
Feb 09 21:37:18 2016 <ct|kyle>	they can read write and do math with statistics
Feb 09 21:37:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	indeed, and there's plenty of statistical data to study that comes from history studies.  Also plenty of auxiliary reading and analysis.
Feb 09 21:38:09 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So, basic arithmetic would come from that, and I think I'd agree with making statistics a core
Feb 09 21:38:26 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	so the cores we're looking at in our Perfect Education System would be History, Linguistics, and Statistics
Feb 09 21:38:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Oh, also, Art and Literature
Feb 09 21:38:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	as one core, of course
Feb 09 21:38:57 2016 <ct|kyle>	and science
Feb 09 21:39:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	more specialized electives would still be on the table so kids can broaden knowledge in subjects they find interesting
Feb 09 21:39:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'd embed scientific method into the others during the k-6 years, and probably introduce science as an elective
Feb 09 21:39:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it wouldn't develop into a required specialty class until around 7th grade, but heavy science would be required to graduate
Feb 09 21:40:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm a firm believer that if you teach kids how to use their brains in the K-6 range, then we can raise the standards on what they need to know in 7-12 quite dramatically
Feb 09 21:41:07 2016 <ct|kyle>	ya
Feb 09 21:41:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	hell, I personally learned more about math from logic puzzles and word problems than I ever did just doing exercises
Feb 09 21:41:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	of course, you still have to practice factoring and all the other boring shit, heh
Feb 09 21:42:10 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but courses like calculus made the most sense when we were doing word problems
Feb 09 21:42:29 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Hillary is feeling the bern in New Hamster right now, btw
Feb 09 21:42:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Kasich has cleared away from Cruz quite nicely, but is still having trouble gaining on Trump
Feb 09 21:43:06 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Cruz, Bush, and Rubio are all sharing the third spot, statistically
Feb 09 21:44:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	hah, ct|kyle, now I realized why you're so young in my head.  :)  10 years ago, you were in high school while I was in college
Feb 09 21:46:18 2016 <ct|kyle>	Lucifer_arma: and 8 years ago we were working on the lunar rover :P
Feb 09 21:46:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	right, right before my divorce completely derailed that
Feb 09 21:46:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	good times :)
Feb 09 21:46:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we should work on the rover again, just for kicks
Feb 09 21:47:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	technology has come so far, we could use the raspberry pi as the brain
Feb 09 21:48:12 2016 <ct|kyle>	I like the arduino mega :)
Feb 09 21:48:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	oh look, Cruz's star started to rise a little.  Bush, too, but Rubio is staying put
Feb 09 21:50:25 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	wow, 15 pins that can be used for PWM
Feb 09 21:50:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	how many motors do we want on this thing?  ;)
Feb 09 21:50:33 2016 <ct|kyle>	once i get it done, maybe i'll post some pictures of my arduino alarm clock
Feb 09 21:51:08 2016 <ct|kyle>	I've used it for 3 months, and have not worked on it though
Feb 09 21:51:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	nice.  An open source IDE for it.  We wouldn't have to worry about making an OS for it, we can just jump straight in to software
Feb 09 21:51:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but what about cameras and shit?
Feb 09 21:51:43 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	hey, speaking of robots, you ever get into robocode?
Feb 09 21:52:33 2016 <ct|kyle>	I don't think cameras would be too hard to do with it. I have not looked at that or robocode
Feb 09 21:53:14 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you should check out robocode.  :)  Java robot battles!
Feb 09 21:53:35 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I have a robocode bot I was playing with a few weeks back.  My older son is interested in it.
Feb 09 21:54:08 2016 <ct|kyle>	looks neat
Feb 09 21:54:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Cruz and Bush are almost far enough ahead of Rubio to share third place, but put Rubio in 4th
Feb 09 21:54:56 2016 <ct|kyle>	kasich projected to be 2nd
Feb 09 21:57:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	the camera interface would still depend on a library capable of using camera input to create an internal map.  Hmmm.....
Feb 09 21:57:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	]ping
Feb 09 21:57:45 2016 <ljrbot>	pong
Feb 09 21:57:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	ljrbot: ping
Feb 09 21:57:46 2016 <ljrbot>	pong
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Feb 09 22:58:25 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	well, I'm glad there are reasonable republicans out there somewhere.  Kasich is probably the closest to reasonable candidate they're running, and he got second
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