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Log from 2008-10-03:
--- Day changed Fri Oct 03 2008
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00:03 <luke-jr> eddiefantastic: you need to use text + speech
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01:12 <Ratchet--_> ello
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13:05 <teabot> vectroncommits: [beta2] r37 mouse wheel -> zoom...
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13:42 <epsy> Unread: 0, Total: 1234
13:42 <epsy> zomg!
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17:41 <hoop> hey K-Yo, me and others have noticed that in ct ladle servers when one zone is conquered, the other vanishes, is that wanted?
17:43 <Ratchet--> =o
17:44 <Ratchet--> ello hoop
17:44 <hoop> olla
17:44 <Ratchet--> available to build tron with me?
17:44 <Ratchet--> stil never got to
17:44 <Ratchet--> :X
17:44 <Ratchet--> btw on ubuntu can you dock userlist instead of popup
17:45 <K-Yo> hoop: it is
17:45 <K-Yo> hoop: ... I think :/
17:45 <hoop> K-Yo: it vanishes when one team wins, or when all enemies are killed?
17:45 <Lackadaisical> oh wow, i just posted something about that on the forums :S
17:46 <Ratchet--> pretty much the same factor, hoop
17:46 <hoop> no
17:46 <Ratchet--> whether they die or someone wins it doesn't really matter if it vanishes
17:46 <Ratchet--> unless you are looking to count extra for conquering even after games done
17:46 <hoop> one team can win without killing enemies
17:47 <Ratchet--> zone1: conquered
17:47 <Ratchet--> zone2: vanish
17:47 <hoop> exactly, atm a team earns 4 points
17:47 <hoop> for conquering
17:47 <Ratchet--> ah
17:47 <Ratchet--> mk
17:47 <Ratchet--> then i guess it's a problem
17:47 <hoop> so, the loser would have a chance to get them even when losing
17:48 <Ratchet--> yeah
17:50 <Ratchet--> hoop what file was i supposed to click the other day and i was missing
17:50 -!- Lizmatic [n=liiz_@78-27-12-206.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:50 <Ratchet--> alocal something?
17:50 <hoop> click?
17:50 <Ratchet--> to build source
17:51 <hoop> you dont need any click to build arma
17:51 <Ratchet--> how do i build the source i downloaded
17:51 <hoop> in terminal run $ ./configure
17:51 <Ratchet--> :\
17:51 <hoop> that's all, it will tell you anything you are missing
17:51 <Ratchet--> i did bootstrap.h
17:52 <Ratchet--> already
17:52 <Ratchet--> if that was neccesary
17:52 <hoop> i dont remember, it doesnt hurt anyway
17:53 -!- emphasis [n=rolf@149-142-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:53 <hoop> if you miss a package, run $ sudo apt-get install <package-name>
17:53 -!- emphasis [n=rolf@149-142-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #armagetron
17:53 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~$ ./configure
17:53 <Ratchet--> bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
17:53 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~$
17:53 -!- Lizmaticc is now known as Lizmatic
17:54 <hoop> where is the source?
17:54 <Ratchet--> file:///home/joshua/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-
17:55 <hoop> configure is there
17:55 <hoop> cd /path/to/arma
17:55 <Ratchet--> mk
17:56 <Ratchet--> i did cd path
17:56 <Ratchet--> then ./configure
17:56 <Ratchet--> still not found
17:56 <hoop> if you can't solve this ask your grandpa, he will
17:56 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~$ cd '/home/joshua/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-'
17:56 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$ ./configure
17:56 <Ratchet--> bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
17:56 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$
17:57 <Ratchet--> my grandpa died recently
17:57 <hoop> launch ./bootstrap.sh
17:58 <Ratchet--> done
17:58 <hoop> it should've generated configure now
17:59 <Ratchet--> config.guess
17:59 <Ratchet--> configure.ac
17:59 <Ratchet--> config.sub
17:59 <Ratchet--> thats it
18:00 <hoop> how did you get the source?
18:00 <Ratchet--> arma site
18:01 <hoop> link?
18:01 <Ratchet--> file:///home/joshua/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Downloads/armagetronad-
18:01 <Ratchet--> mk
18:01 <Ratchet--> sec
18:02 <Ratchet--> http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?groupname=armagetronad&filename=armagetronad-
18:03 <hoop> configure is already there
18:03 <Ratchet--> not on mine..
18:03 <hoop> magic?
18:03 <Ratchet--> obviously
18:04 <Ratchet--> aha
18:04 <Ratchet--> redid it and found it
18:04 <Ratchet--> deleted and downloaded
18:04 <Ratchet--> :)
18:04 <Ratchet--> whata nerd
18:05 <Ratchet--> and that's it?
18:05 <hoop> that's what
18:05 <Ratchet--> that builds tron?
18:06 <hoop> nope
18:06 <hoop> did it tell anything bad?
18:06 <Ratchet--> no
18:07 <hoop> do you have alerady installed arma before?
18:07 <epsy> (are you installing stable?)
18:07 <Ratchet--> i have installed arma, but uninstalled it before we started all this
18:07 <hoop> epsy: i guess so
18:07 <Ratchet--> yes its
18:07 <Ratchet--> eps
18:08 <hoop> that link is from arma official site?
18:08 <Ratchet--> yessir
18:08 <epsy> that's the sf link
18:08 <epsy> (so yes)
18:08 <Ratchet--> mk all thats done
18:09 <hoop> kay, Ratchet-- run make and wait till it end (may take long)
18:09 <Ratchet--> makefile in or am
18:09 <hoop> make
18:09 <hoop> that's a command, not a file
18:09 <Ratchet--> =D
18:09 <Ratchet--> k
18:09 <Ratchet--> elaborate
18:09 <Ratchet--> :)
18:09 -!- luke-jr is now known as luke-jr_
18:09 <Ratchet--> make directory?
18:09 -!- luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
18:09 <hoop> (ok, it is a file but it is in arma folder)
18:10 <hoop> *it it not
18:10 <hoop> *it is not
18:10 <epsy> just make
18:10 <Ratchet--> ok
18:10 <hoop> $ make
18:10 <Ratchet--> leme open terminal
18:10 <hoop> dont close the term until it's finished
18:10 <Ratchet--> no target specified
18:11 <epsy> did you cd into the dir where you extracted arma?
18:11 <Ratchet--> yea
18:11 <teabot> vectroncommits: [beta2] r38 replaced list with a GtkTreeModel so that in can dire...
18:11 <epsy> type ls
18:12 -!- hoax [n=hoax@unaffiliated/hoax] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:12 <epsy> look if there is any "Makefile" file
18:12 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~$ cd '/home/joshua/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-'
18:12 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$ make
18:12 <Ratchet--> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
18:12 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$
18:12 -!- hoax [n=hoax@dyn-62-56-74-147.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #armagetron
18:12 <epsy> Makefile, not Makefile.am or something
18:12 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$ ls
18:12 <Ratchet--> accustomdir.m4           config           install-sh       README
18:12 <Ratchet--> acinclude.m4             config.guess     language         README-DEVELOPER
18:12 <Ratchet--> armagetron.kdevelop      config.log       MacOS            README-KDevelop3_0
18:12 <Ratchet--> armagetron.kdevelop.pcs  config.sub       Makefile.am      README-SDL
18:12 <Ratchet--> armagetron.kdevses       configure.ac     Makefile.in      resource
18:12 <Ratchet--> AUTHORS                  COPYING          Makefile.manual  sound
18:12 <Ratchet--> batch                    desktop          missing          src
18:12 <hoop> I stfu
18:12 <Ratchet--> bootstrap.sh             fingerprint.tbz  models           textures
18:12 <Ratchet--> ChangeLog                INSTALL          NEWS             tron.ico
18:12 <epsy> there was no need to paste >.>
18:12 <Ratchet--> nope
18:12 <Ratchet--> just make.am .in
18:13 <epsy> this means you didn't run ./configure
18:13 <hoop> Ratchet--: say YES|NO wtf
18:13 <Ratchet--> and manuel
18:13 <epsy> type ./configure
18:13 <epsy> wait, do you want to build a server or a client?
18:13 <Ratchet--> no such file or directory
18:13 <Ratchet--> client
18:13 <Ratchet--> dot dot dot
18:13 <epsy> type ./bootstrap.sh
18:14 <Ratchet--> done
18:14 <epsy> ./configure
18:14 <Ratchet--> no such file
18:14 <epsy> paste the output of ./bootstrap.sh
18:14 <epsy>  on a pasting site
18:14 <epsy> NOT RIGHT HERE
18:15 <epsy> http://armagetronad.pastebin.com/ <-- paste there
18:15 <Ratchet--> :D
18:15 <Ratchet--> i pmed yu
18:15 <Ratchet--> :\
18:15 <Ratchet--> before you said that
18:15 <epsy> ok i seen
18:15 <epsy> what OS are you running?
18:15 <Ratchet--> windows xp computer, on ubuntu tho
18:16 <epsy> a windows xp computer?! Wow!
18:16 <epsy> type sudo aptitude install autoconf
18:17 <Ratchet--> done
18:17 <epsy> now try ./bootstrap again
18:17 <epsy> er
18:17 <epsy> .sh
18:17 <Ratchet--> k
18:17 <Ratchet--> haha its working
18:17 <Ratchet--> lifesaver
18:17 <epsy> note that the <tab> key autocompletes file names and commands
18:18 <Ratchet--> k
18:18 <Ratchet--> it was succesful
18:18 <Ratchet--> now what
18:18 <epsy> once bootstrap is done, and that there are no errors
18:18 <Ratchet--> theres nones
18:18 <Ratchet--> none*
18:18 <epsy> do as it suggests you to do, type ./configure
18:18 <Ratchet--> configure still not found tho
18:19 <epsy> paste the ouput of bootstrap on the link i gave
18:19 <Ratchet--> configure seems to have dissapeared...
18:19 <Ratchet--> it was there..
18:20 <Ratchet--> http://armagetronad.pastebin.com/m4450cd70
18:21 <epsy> ls
18:22 <Ratchet--> http://armagetronad.pastebin.com/m75762617
18:23 <epsy> well, wtf Oo
18:24 <Ratchet--> i will try it again
18:24 <epsy> btw
18:24 <epsy> normally the ./configure script is already shipped with the game
18:24 <epsy> for packaged releases, that is
18:24 <Ratchet--> configure
18:24 <Ratchet--> the file
18:24 <Ratchet--> WAS there
18:24 <Ratchet--> til i ran something
18:25 <epsy> something?
18:25 <Ratchet--> bootstrap i guess
18:26 <Ratchet--> configurewokd now
18:26 <Ratchet--> now do bootstrap?
18:26 <hoop> Ratchet--: didn't you see bootstrap made an error?
18:26 <Ratchet--> er hoop no i didn't
18:26 <Ratchet--> epsy configure worked
18:26 <epsy> on his last paste bootstrap didn't show an error
18:26 <Ratchet--> now what
18:27 <epsy> Ratchet--, make
18:27 <Ratchet--> just tpe 'make'
18:27 <Ratchet--> ?
18:27 <epsy> yes
18:27 <hoop> YES
18:27 <Ratchet--> type*
18:27 <hoop> lol
18:27 <epsy> ./configure && make
18:27 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$ make
18:27 <Ratchet--> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
18:27 <Ratchet--> joshua@Home:~/Desktop/Dl&Ext/Extracted/armagetronad-$
18:27 <Ratchet--> dot dot dot
18:27 <epsy> did you run configure?!
18:27 <Ratchet--> yes..... omg...
18:27 <epsy> output?
18:28 <Ratchet--> ./configure
18:28 <Ratchet--> (work work work)
18:28 <Ratchet--> make
18:28 <epsy> (pastebinpastebin)
18:29 <Ratchet--> http://armagetronad.pastebin.com/m145283cc
18:29 <epsy> don't you see anything at line 45?
18:30 <Ratchet--> -.-
18:30 <Ratchet--> i cant read that terminat crap
18:30 <Ratchet--> the colors
18:30 <Ratchet--> blind me
18:30 <epsy> did you do sudo aptitude install build-essential ?
18:31 <epsy> Ratchet--, ther are no colors in configure's output
18:31 <Ratchet--> negative, i did exactly what you all said
18:31 <Ratchet--> nothing else
18:31 <epsy> for the rest, you can see in your terminal's config
18:31 <epsy> do it, then
18:32 <Ratchet--> done
18:32 <epsy> ./configure again
18:32 <Ratchet--> k
18:33 <Ratchet--> checking for xmlParseMemory in -lxml2... ./configure: line 11981: xml2-config: command not found
18:33 <Ratchet--> no
18:33 <Ratchet--> configure: error: You need the library xml2 to compile Armagetron. Read the file doc/install_linux.html.
18:33 <epsy> now the fun can begin
18:33 <Ratchet--> *hooray?*
18:33 <epsy> for each missing dependency, you should check in your package manager for the package that probably contains the missing dependency
18:34 <epsy> then install that package, AND it's -dev companion
18:34 <Ratchet--> i think i got half of that
18:34 <Ratchet--> you are forgetting: i come from windows which is quite easy
18:35 <epsy> the -dev package contains things like the xml2-config script, and .h files, which are being included from the game's source
18:35 <Ratchet--> and then im coming to this and you all expect me to know half of what you are saying
18:35 <Ratchet--> ok
18:35 <epsy> you know what a package manager is?
18:35 <Ratchet--> yep
18:36 <epsy> here, we can see the missing dependency is [lib]xml2, get it?
18:36 <epsy> so now, fire up the package manager
18:36 <epsy> and search for a package named xml2
18:36 <Ratchet--> man im god
18:36 <epsy> i think it's libxml2
18:36 <Ratchet--> sudo apt-get install xml2
18:36 <Ratchet--> foindit
18:36 <Ratchet--> :0
18:37 <Ratchet--> nowwhat
18:37 <epsy> now you must also install the -dev package
18:37 <Ratchet--> p
18:37 <Ratchet--> =o
18:37 <Ratchet--> the name is
18:37 <Ratchet--> -dev?
18:37 <epsy> no
18:37 <epsy> <blah>-dev
18:37 <Ratchet--> kk
18:37 <epsy> then repeat for each missing dependency
18:38 <epsy> once ./configure stops complaining, you can go on to 'make'
18:38 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@p508730AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
18:41 <Ratchet--> kk thx epsy
18:41 <epsy> yw
18:41 <Ratchet--> i wrote all the steps down in notepad :D
18:41 <epsy> hehe
18:41 <Ratchet--> bighelp<3
18:42 <epsy> no problem
18:42 <Ratchet--> mk now that i've accomplished my goal i go drink coffee
18:42 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@p508730AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
18:45  * luke-jr burps in Ratchet--'s general direction.
18:46 <epsy> zmanuel, hi, you there?
18:47 <zmanuel> yes, what's up?
18:47 <luke-jr> :O
18:47 <luke-jr> HE IS THERE
18:48 <epsy> the draft is not finished and i don't really have any targetted milestone, but i'd like to know your opinion about it: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=New_setting_structure
18:48 -!- _Ratchet [n=Joshua@99-195-42-58.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #armagetron
18:48 <luke-jr> epsy: NIH syndrome?
18:48 <_Ratchet> okay now
18:48 <_Ratchet> next goal
18:49 <_Ratchet> getting wireless on ubuntu
18:49 <_Ratchet> my driver shows up, but dont connect
18:49 <epsy> _Ratchet, you may get more help about this topic in #ubuntu
18:50 <luke-jr> epsy: "New setting structure" is more or less what I proposed a few years ago
18:50 <Monkey_arma> _Ratchet So you using Ubuntu eh, good. Btw, why do you have _Ratchet and Ratchet-- in here at same time, do you have some problem with your client?
18:50 <epsy> luke-jr, can i see?
18:51 <luke-jr> epsy: if I can find it
18:51 <luke-jr> epsy: I thought it had a wiki page, but it might have all been forums
18:51 <_Ratchet> at times yes
18:51 <Monkey_arma> oh and #linux and #ubuntu are good places to ask any questions. Try #ubuntu first and then #linux
18:51 <_Ratchet> sometimes my client opens multiple times
18:52 <Monkey_arma> Ratchet-- what client are you on?
18:52 <luke-jr> epsy: "DCT" http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=4631 http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=11211
18:52 <Monkey_arma> or _Ratchet
18:53 <zmanuel> luke-jr: IIRC, we didn't like it
18:53 <zmanuel> or rather, what you wrote was sufficiently unspecific.
18:53 <_Ratchet> i'm on xchat
18:54 <epsy> that's not exactly what i spec'ed, I clearly stated that nothing ephemere should enter it[except ddl moderators, of course!], so that we could choose to save the config file, even on dedicated
18:55 <luke-jr> ephemere?
18:55 <Monkey_arma> _Ratchet goto  Xchat --> help --> about    and tell me what version
18:55 <_Ratchet> 2.8.7c
18:55 <epsy> luke-jr, like "at slot 1 there's this guy" "this guy got invulnerability"
18:56 <epsy> ie. most stuff that depends on players are out
18:56 <Monkey_arma> _Ratchet Ok if I PM you?
18:56 <luke-jr> epsy: those would be in a differnet part of the tree ☺
18:56 <Monkey_arma> saves spamming here
18:56 <_Ratchet> sure is
18:56 <luke-jr> epsy: eg, 'config.' root vs 'state.' or such
18:56 <epsy> i was thinking of 'contexts'
18:57 <luke-jr> …
18:57 <epsy> idk, if we start adding stuff that needs a hardcoded switch, we're on the wrong direction imo
18:58 <luke-jr> DCT was specifically not hardcoded ☺
18:59 -!- Ratchet-- [n=joshua@99-195-42-58.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:00 <epsy> either it is a config tree, either it is a state abstraction tree, not both
19:00 <epsy> you should not have a state abstraction tree be saved into a config file not next start
19:01 <luke-jr> epsy: config and state are the same
19:01 <epsy> no, they are not
19:02 <luke-jr> to some extent
19:02 <epsy> they can reside in a tree, that's about it
19:02 <luke-jr> by "config" you mean the defaults
19:03 <luke-jr> the default state
19:03 <luke-jr> at the beginning of a round/match
19:03 <epsy> we had config and commands mixed together for a while now, now when we can clean it, i don't think we should now mix it with state information
19:03 <epsy> i mean the settings
19:03 <luke-jr> epsy: so, how should I make Player X's max wall length longer than Player Y's? ☺
19:04 <epsy> (the game physics part should be kicked out sometime, indeed)
19:05 <epsy> well, you're right, we'd better have it all in one split
19:07  * epsy puts in blueprint TODO list: <the thing he's been thinking about for months now>, contexted physics engine
19:07 <luke-jr> epsy: see my idea about moving physics into config with vValue
19:08 <luke-jr> that part I think ended up being the killer, because it was so complex
19:08 <epsy> hrm, you would mean config entries that can handle complex numbers?
19:09 <epsy> hrm, we should port armagetron to quantic computing soon :)
19:11 <luke-jr> quantum*
19:11 <luke-jr> I mean config entries that would hold a function
19:12 <luke-jr> so cycle.position.x would contain the prediction code, potentially
19:12 <epsy> meh, i prefer to avoid that as much as possible, to not fall back into the mixture chaos
19:12 <luke-jr> for AIs, being more predictive than with players
19:13 <luke-jr> yeah, like I said, it is too complex
19:13 <epsy> i see
19:13 <luke-jr> best to leave it as an option down the road
19:28 <hoop> can a wall have height==0 ???
19:28 <epsy> no
19:28 <epsy> use something very small instead
19:28 <hoop> error?
19:28 <epsy> thinking about it, hopefully that it can't be 0 :P
19:29 <hoop> what happens if I make a map with <Wall height="0">
19:30 <hoop> I know I can test myself, hopefully someone already knows that
19:30 <epsy> it shows with default height
19:30 <hoop> okkay
19:43 -!- aa_voodoo [n=erollet@def92-6-82-230-4-2.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
19:43 <zmanuel> epsy: ok, read it. What's the difference of it compared to a stricter naming convention for existing settings?
19:44 <epsy> commands would be wiped out
19:44 <zmanuel> That's all?
19:44 <luke-jr> lol
19:45 <epsy> better naming conventions, like you said
19:45 <epsy> ghost settings
19:45 <zmanuel> How would it prevent cheating better?
19:45 <epsy> that's the major parts
19:45 <zmanuel> What are those ghosts?
19:46 <epsy> zmanuel, currently, it's just some sketches drawed in my mind, i'm not sure if the goal will be kept/delivered
19:46 <epsy> zmanuel, allowing to use a config item before it is declared
19:46 <epsy> that is mandatory scripting
19:46 <zmanuel> What the hell does that mean?
19:47 <epsy> AA loads config file settings.dedicated.cfg
19:47 <epsy> it finds setting 'render.zones.style' in it
19:48 <epsy> instead of just stopping here, because it didn't find the setting declared previousely,
19:48 <epsy> it will store it and wait for something(ie. imagine hoop porting his patch to a module/script or something) to claim it
19:49 <zmanuel> Hmm. But suppose the setting never gets claimed. How do you give the user an error message?
19:50 <zmanuel> Or rather, when?
19:50 <epsy> you can't
19:50 <epsy> except maybe when the app shuts down, but that's not efficient at all
19:50 <zmanuel> Right. So it can't be automatic.
19:50 <epsy> also, if the setting is declared in a module, the module has to be loaded
19:50 <zmanuel> The user would have to explicitly say "GHOST render zones.style x"
19:51 <akira_arma> yay biggest banking robbery in history approved :)
19:51 <epsy> to be loaded it has to be in some setting
19:52 <epsy> zmanuel, well, it's more likely to show up in a config file
19:52 -!- aa_voodoo [n=erollet@def92-6-82-230-4-2.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
19:52 <epsy> but well, there could be a way of setting a setting in a way you can't set something not declared
19:54 <epsy> the user console could serve to that purpose, ie. to have the user be able to set settings without explicitely using "SET", maybe quake-style
19:54 <epsy> but i'm not really happy with that, since it would blur the barrier between command and setting
19:55 <zmanuel> The SET RIGHT NOW method needs to be the default. We really can't have it that typos get no error reports.
19:56 <epsy> by quake style i mean: if the user opens console, types « some.non.existing.setting.here "and it's value" », he would get an error
19:56 <epsy> now, he can use the /set command, which sets a setting, regardless wether it exists or not
19:56 <zmanuel> Yes, but the same needs to be the case for config files.
19:57 <epsy> how would one write settings that are not "claimed" inside armagetron itself ?
19:58 <zmanuel> How should I know? It's your idea, think of something!
19:58 <zmanuel> perhaps with a later. prefix?
19:58 <zmanuel> Besides, when would actually a setting not be available?
19:59 <epsy> hmm, if you got 20 settings to set for later..
19:59 <epsy> zmanuel, scripting
19:59 <epsy> or moduling/etc
19:59 <zmanuel> The sensible thing there is to load the scripts first, then make the settings.
19:59 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:00 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@gre92-2-82-66-105-52.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
20:01 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:02 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-227-173.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #armagetron
20:03 <epsy> aaaah!
20:03 <epsy> freedesktop-style config files
20:03 <luke-jr> …
20:24 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
20:25 <K-Yo> do you know what is the setting not to have zones disappearing at the end of a round?
20:26 <K-Yo> .cfg2 collap
20:26 <tronner> K-Yo: COLLAPSE_ZONE: collapse_zone_help || FORTRESS_COLLAPSE_SPEED: fortress_collapse_speed_help || LADDERLOG_WRITE_ZONE_COLLAPSED: ladderlog_write_zone_collapsed_help
20:26 <K-Yo> hm
20:26 <K-Yo> I guess it's that
20:33 -!- hmw [n=hmw@85-127-5-25.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #armagetron
20:33 <hmw> ahoy
20:34 <K-Yo> hi hmw
20:38 <hmw> ok, where to start? i cant connect to my hosted game (not dedicated server) from outside (have 2 isp conns here) [...]
20:38 <hmw> i believe the forward is ok, but i am not that expirienced with iptables yet
20:38 <hmw> could anyone check this:
20:39 <K-Yo> hmw:
20:39 <K-Yo> check what?
20:40 <K-Yo> paste here: http://armagetronad.pastebin.com/
20:40 <hmw> [...]
20:40 <hmw> http://armagetron.pastebin.com/m37e9178f
20:40 <hmw> heheh
20:40 <hmw> i was just there to make the post
20:40 <hmw> my question is:
20:41 <hmw> is there a difference between UDP and TCP in that setting?
20:41 <hmw> i guess, it should be fine just to copy the VNC and make it to Armagetron
20:41 <K-Yo> for arma, on dedicated, I use UDP
20:42 <K-Yo> dunno what's the difference
20:42 <K-Yo> anyway, why not use a dedicated server?
20:42 <hmw> TCP is a stable connection, that stays. ...
20:42 <hmw> UDP is non permanent, packets may be lost
20:43 <K-Yo> hm
20:43 <hmw> oh my
20:43 <K-Yo> the TCP is good
20:43  * K-Yo is a noob in connections
20:43 <hmw> theres a choice?? manual says its UDP
20:43 <hmw> well
20:44 <hmw> i am a little tired (my clock shows about 48h45 *g*)
20:44 <K-Yo> 4845? that is quite late
20:45 <hmw> damn i am tired
20:45 <K-Yo> hmw: any question abou arma? :P I can't answer you about those redirecting stuff (but probably some other ppl here can)
20:45 <K-Yo> hmw: why not sleep then?
20:45 <K-Yo> it's the best cure against tireness
20:45 <hmw> i am not going to bother you with router stuff
20:47 <hmw> i dont want to install another software right now. if the "host" option is good enough, that is my choice for now
20:47 <hmw> okay, sorry to have bothered you. i am really tired... connected my notebook via HSDPA without unplugging the LAN
20:47 <hmw> i am stupid sometimes, especially when tired
20:48 <hmw> well
20:48 <hmw> as long as i am here, i could try help others with router stuff... usually i am quite good at this
20:49 <hoop> arma uses udp
20:49 <hmw> but my mistake doesnt explain, why a friend couldnt find me in te list of server... does it take more than 5 minutes after start of hosting, until my game appears in that list?
20:49 <hoop> have he tried with custom connect?
20:49 <hoop> has*
20:50 <hmw> hoop: stop. solved. thanks. i can do it now. my friend couldnt and i just wonder.
20:51 <hmw> is there a huge delay?
20:51 <hmw> i suppose, my game should be listed within 5 seconds
20:52 <epsy> hmw, the masters wait 5 minutes or so before announcing a server
20:52 <hmw> aah... then we were just to impatient. thanks for your attention!
20:54 <hmw> any advise on how to set the game rules? what do people like, what not? what about double bindings? (i have the impression, they are a little unfair)
20:56 <hoop> start with settings you like, then you can ask players for suggestions
20:56 <madmax> try not using a very low CYCLE_DELAY and a too high CYCLE_RUBBER :)
20:56 <K-Yo> yeah
20:57  * madmax notes he has a biased opinion
20:58 <hmw> can i make a game with first person only?
20:59 <hmw> i mean for everybody, wouldnt be fair to play 1st against someone with more overview
21:00 <madmax> you can set a fixed camera for the server, but I think that is only enforced by the client...
21:00 <hmw> sorry, not an english native speaker; you mean: everybody can choose, no matter what i set?
21:01 <K-Yo> hmw: what is ur native language?
21:02 <madmax> no, everyone plays with the camera you define, although you could compile your own version and dodge that :P
21:02 <hmw> german
21:02 <hmw> i see
21:02 <hmw> i really like first person, so i will just hope, that there are some cool folx out there... i read, that the community would be very fine
21:04  * hmw aka corewar
21:05 -!- hmw is now known as corewar
21:06  * Lizmatic coredumped flex for 1 point.
21:08 <madmax> don't think it's common
21:10 <corewar> i suppose the forced camera view is only available in console?
21:12 <sinewav> *loves incam
21:12 <madmax> yeah, CAMERA_FORBID_<something>
21:13 <madmax> http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php?title=Console_Commands
21:14 <sinewav> For incam only, you would forbid all other but: CAMERA_FORBID_IN 0
21:14 <corewar> thanks, youre so kind
21:24  * Flex gave Lizmatic 999+1 red roses and became bankrupt.
21:25 -!- emmy_arma [n=peiaeman@pc232133.static.is.airbites.ro] has joined #armagetron
21:29 <K-Yo> yo emmy_arma
21:53 -!- _Ratchet [n=Joshua@99-195-42-58.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:10 -!- GodTodd_ [n=TheTruth@pool-96-226-124-149.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
22:11 -!- GodTodd [n=TheTruth@pool-96-226-124-149.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:16 <Monkey_arma> corewar Fortress/sumo settings are the future...
22:17 <hoop> and the past :X
22:50 -!- MaZuffeR [n=mazuffer@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
22:58 -!- corewar [n=hmw@85-127-5-25.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["swapper swapped out"]
23:00 -!- corewar [n=hmw@85-127-5-25.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #armagetron
23:02 <corewar> re
23:02 <corewar> quite tricky to configure a game
23:02 <corewar> but i think i got it now
23:04 <corewar> it seems, i cant connect from 2 pcs behind my firewall, the second pc only sees my game, when i got through the alternate ISP line
23:04 <corewar> go through indeed
23:11 <madmax> #tea
23:11 <armabot> madmax: Fortress Café - CT's clone: Players (0/32):
23:12 <madmax> #sd deathmatch
23:12 <armabot> madmax: Nexus9 Deathmatch (NO RUBBER!): Players (10/16): aknuth, Dw|Disc, Fear Factory, johan wazoflaz (agent7@tron.nexusnine.org), lilbitdemon, mach5, NiggaMagik, Not Player 1, NOvelociti, _-22DRUG
23:13 <epsy> breaking news
23:13 <epsy> steve fosset was eaten by birds
23:13 <epsy> Eated!
23:14 <epsy> @tea
23:14 <teabot> epsy: Fortress Café - CT's clone: Players (5/32): 1200, |x| FoFo, |x| Raiden, ~|DS-T|~|JS|~, ¦×¦ Liza (Liza@xclan.armagetron.co.uk/member)
23:14 <epsy> #tea
23:14 <armabot> epsy: Fortress Café - CT's clone: Players (5/32): 1200, |x| FoFo, |x| Raiden, ~|DS-T|~|JS|~, ¦×¦ Liza (Liza@xclan.armagetron.co.uk/member)
23:15 -!- emmy_arma [n=peiaeman@pc232133.static.is.airbites.ro] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:19 -!- sithy [n=sithy@gob75-5-82-231-181-76.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
23:21 <sithy> hi
23:28 <Monkey_arma> hi
23:30 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@ip-62-235-227-173.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []

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