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Log from 2008-02-23:
--- Day changed Sat Feb 23 2008
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00:26 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8067 /clio/trunk/clio/ (28 files in 4 dirs): Manuel Moos: Tests run again.
00:26 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8068 /clio/trunk/clio/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: removed old makefiles.
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00:29 <K-Yo> #svn
00:29 <armabot> svn co https://armagetronad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/armagetronad/armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad <dirname>(more information: http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Working_with_SVN)
00:32 <z-man> or "bzr branch lp:armagetronad"
00:32 <z-man> easier to remember :)
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00:36 <z-man> :O on gcc 3.3, clio currently REQUIRES "-Wall -pedantic".
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00:46 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8069 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. .bzrignore src/classinfo.hpp tests/runtest.sh): Manuel Moos: Adapted to compiling from the source directory itself.
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01:17 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8070 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. patches/ patches/io_header_install.patch): Manuel Moos: Added patch for Io sources that makes them install the headers.
01:17 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8071 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. README): Manuel Moos: Wrote some lines.
01:20 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8072 /clio/trunk/clio/ (188 files in 4 dirs): Manuel Moos: moved src -> clio so examples can include <clio/header.hpp> like a program using an installed version would do.
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02:07 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8073 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. Makefile.am clio/Makefile.am): Manuel Moos: Made tests optional, added functional "make install".
02:07 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8074 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. tests/Makefile.am): Manuel Moos: added dist-hook.
02:08 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8075 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. Makefile.am tests/Makefile.am): Manuel Moos: "make distcheck" almost works.
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08:56 <philippeqc> luke-jr: what is the main page of your aa hosting service?
08:56 <luke-jr> http://lightfoot.dashjr.org
08:56 <philippeqc> ty
08:58 <philippeqc> crazy is going to drive me to the state of mind described by his name!
08:58 <wrtlprnft> heh
08:58 <wrtlprnft> i understand that.
08:59 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: Statistical reports*/* Planned
08:59 <wrtlprnft> aren't they planned for a year or so already?
08:59 <luke-jr> philippeqc: what's up with Crazy?
08:59 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: yeah
09:00 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: nobody seems to care about it
09:00 <philippeqc> he is good willing, but ask unstructured question, and doenst give near enough info for us to help him
09:09 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:09 <wrtlprnft> he seems to like to make m
09:09 <wrtlprnft> any threads
09:09 <wrtlprnft> s/make/start
09:11 <philippeqc> yeah
09:11 <philippeqc> at least his questions are non-trivial
09:11 <wrtlprnft> yeah
09:11 <wrtlprnft> *insert rant about windows hiding extensions by default here*
09:11 <luke-jr> ⁇
09:11 <wrtlprnft> .mod vs MPEG
09:12 <flex> hmm
09:12 <flex> just change it then wrtlprnft?
09:12 <wrtlprnft> that would break moviepacks
09:13 <flex> urm wha
09:13 <wrtlprnft> and i don't think any of the devs is willing to change the extension because stupid windows hides it
09:13 <flex> it's in folder options.. it off by default, how does it effect anything
09:14 <wrtlprnft> oh
09:15 <philippeqc> flex, we cant go and change that folder option on everybody that didn't that failed their "computer-usage 101"
09:15 <wrtlprnft> of course, any windows box i ever got my hands on whows extensions
09:15 <flex> yeah it's gay
09:15 <wrtlprnft> *shows
09:15 <flex> but how comes it has any effect..
09:15 <flex> that's weird, i blame the latter not windows :p
09:15 <wrtlprnft> arma doesn't care about win-explorer showing extensions or not
09:16 <wrtlprnft> http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18274&highlight=
09:16 <wrtlprnft> we're talking about that thread
09:18 <flex> i see
09:20 <flex> the thing is.. it's not what it thinks it is.. it's just what the default program has titled it as
09:21 <flex> where mine is "Type of file:Movie Clip"
09:21 <flex> because windows media player is defaulted to that file
09:23 <flex> that guy has just totally confused it
09:24 <philippeqc> he relies on the output from windows
09:24 <flex> exactly
09:28 <philippeqc> he isnt technologically educated
09:28 <philippeqc> and probably about 12
09:29 <flex> lol
09:33 <philippeqc> so basically it is our (all grown up) job to guide him and help him learn
09:33 <luke-jr> or we could mock him…
09:33  * luke-jr hides
09:34 <flex> luke-jr = gay
09:36 -!- z-man [n=manuel@p50871BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
09:43  * z-man switches to ignore-Crazy mode.
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09:56 <philippeqc> i second flex's motion
09:58 <flex> I think we can start something here..
09:59 <flex> or well actually it's been known for awhile, so we'd actually be finishing it :p
10:04 <philippeqc> flex, i think that we should spread the knowledge. Can you edit the topic of this channel?
10:04 <flex> no :(
10:05 <flex> we could ask luke to..
10:05 <philippeqc> i know who can:luke. Lets see if he is a moderator that listen to the voice of the people, or one that abuse his powers!
10:05 <philippeqc> ;)
10:05 <flex> y0 luke-jr!
10:06 <luke-jr> philippeqc: nobody said the channel was a democracy
10:06 <philippeqc> yes yes, i just did
10:06 <luke-jr> last I checked it's a monarchy headed by guru3
10:06 <flex> well that's mean..
10:06 <philippeqc> Junta!!!! Viva la revolution!
10:06 <wrtlprnft> err
10:06 <luke-jr> democracy is flawed
10:07 <wrtlprnft> what excactly do you want to do?
10:07 <flex> lol
10:07  * philippeqc takes to the street 
10:07 <wrtlprnft> long live the king!
10:07 <flex> The king is dead!
10:07 <philippeqc> luke-jr: all systems are flawed. Just pick the flaw you can live with.
10:07 <luke-jr> :O
10:07 <luke-jr> philippeqc: I can live with monarchy here
10:07 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: we want to change the channel topic
10:08 <luke-jr> guru3 makes a decent monarch for an Armagetron channel
10:08 <philippeqc> no problems with guru3, just with one member of his cabinet
10:08 <philippeqc> ;)
10:08 <luke-jr> philippeqc: it's not nice to talk behind people's back
10:08 <philippeqc> ... for the time to change the topic that is
10:09 <flex> hey hey! i thought we only wanted to celebrate lukes gayness..
10:09 <luke-jr> flex: u r
10:09 <philippeqc> yeah, by changing the channel's topic
10:09 <philippeqc> yes luke, we are... celebrating it
10:10 <luke-jr> flex: f u
10:10 <wrtlprnft> err, what do you want to change it to?
10:10 <flex> luke you're gay and theirs nothing you can do about it! the people have spoken..
10:10 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: he's just trolling
10:10  * GodTodd votes for the luke-jr is gay notion.
10:11 <philippeqc> lol!
10:11  * luke-jr votes GodTodd shoves it up flex's
10:11 <wrtlprnft> 10:10 -!- Topic set by luke-jr [] [Sun Aug 12 20:48:02 2007]
10:11 <flex> The people unite!
10:11 <wrtlprnft> tank isn't the only guy who can change it
10:11 <GodTodd> he was already seen bragging about taking a massive.co.ck
10:11 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: nobody said he is
10:11  * wrtlprnft is really confused
10:12  * wrtlprnft enters the ignore everyone mode
10:12 <philippeqc> wrtlprnft: we wanted to get luke to change the topic
10:12  * philippeqc thinks the joke has ran long enough
10:12 <luke-jr> philippeqc: that is based on a false assertion!
10:12 <flex> haha yeah right!
10:12 <philippeqc> luke-jr: so are most prejudice
10:13 <luke-jr> namely, that someone who changed the topic Aug '07 can still change it in Feb '08
10:13 <philippeqc> but we wont let it stop us
10:13  * flex seems to have a valid point everytime he uses the explanation mark.
10:13 <philippeqc> o, THAT assertion
10:13 -!- mode/#armagetron [+v luke-jr] by ChanServ
10:14 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: you are a poop
10:14  * GodTodd notes it was more of an assumption rather than an assertion
10:14 <flex> luke-jr, here's a valid question, would you wear PINK stockings or red latex stockings?
10:14 <GodTodd> oh wow...how will i ever survive such a name
10:14  * GodTodd is a poop.
10:14 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: try suicide
10:14 <GodTodd> luke-jr, you first :)
10:15 <+luke-jr> ok
10:15 <philippeqc> GodTodd: answer him something mean, like "your a doodoo head"
10:15 <flex> it tastes quite nice, go for it!
10:15 <+luke-jr> brb
10:15 <+luke-jr> back
10:15 <+luke-jr> I failed
10:15 <+luke-jr> your turn
10:15 <GodTodd> such is your life, eh? ;)
10:15 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o armabot] by ChanServ
10:15 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: good luck, I hope you will succeed!
10:15 <wrtlprnft> #roulette
10:15 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: *click*
10:15  * philippeqc notes that it is sliding from silly to half-mean
10:15 <wrtlprnft> try that.
10:15 <flex> #roulette
10:15 <@armabot> flex: *click*
10:16 <flex> made it
10:16  * GodTodd looks in the bible to see where it says for xtians to wish suicide on others.
10:16 <+luke-jr> philippeqc: of course, GodTodd got involved
10:16 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: Bible humper!
10:16  * philippeqc tries to stear the topic in a new direction....
10:16 <philippeqc> how about them Bear?
10:17 <GodTodd> man...luke has gotten even more juvenile
10:17  * GodTodd didn't think that was possible. 
10:17 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: implement ramps and flying cycles to steer the topic somewhere else
10:17 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: fasting will do that, eh⁈
10:17  * philippeqc gives a time-out card to both luke-jr and GodTodd 
10:18 <flex> luke-jr, look you dropped your gay card!
10:18 <philippeqc> flying zone might be an interesting thing
10:18 <+luke-jr> flex: you forgot to tie the knot on your … hanging… thing
10:18 <philippeqc> lasers, we need lasers on the bike
10:18 <+luke-jr> philippeqc: rain!
10:18 <+luke-jr> that makes you slide
10:18 <+luke-jr> >_<
10:18 <+luke-jr> fog too
10:18 <philippeqc> ooo, actually a nice one
10:19 <philippeqc> yeah, though about fog
10:19 <+luke-jr> randomly moving parts of the map are obscured
10:19 <philippeqc> i was describing the zones to a friend, and he said "i want to play the zones"
10:19 <philippeqc> that could be fun, one player per team can go and drop zones with different effect anywhere in the play area
10:20 <+luke-jr> eh
10:20 <flex> he
10:20 <+luke-jr> ooh
10:20 <+luke-jr> and if the humidity is high enough
10:20 <+luke-jr> sparks/grinding cause explosions
10:20 <+luke-jr> :D
10:21 <flex> weather in armagetron!
10:21 <+luke-jr> or maybe just short the cycle out
10:21 <philippeqc> just add a delay between the "i put a zone here" action and the actual apparition of the zone, add a random picker for the zone effect a bit like the picker of peices in Tetris, and that could be fun
10:21 <+luke-jr> forcing it to stop
10:21 <GodTodd> how would humidity cause explosions?
10:21 <+luke-jr> philippeqc: pick up weapons?
10:21 <philippeqc> gasoline clouds of course Todd
10:21 <flex> it can..
10:21 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: shorting a battery sure does?
10:21 <GodTodd> ummm
10:22 <GodTodd> put a battery in high humidity
10:22 <GodTodd> wait for it to explode
10:22 <GodTodd> go ahead
10:22 <GodTodd> i'll wait
10:22 <+luke-jr> by high enough, I mean like solid water
10:22 <GodTodd> then it's water
10:22 <GodTodd> not humidity
10:22 <+luke-jr> :þ
10:22 <+luke-jr> humidity is water concentration
10:22 <GodTodd> in air
10:22 <philippeqc> no weapons... a tad boring
10:22 <+luke-jr> hm, that'd be a neat effect
10:22 <GodTodd> solid water in air is rain
10:22 <GodTodd> foo
10:23 <+luke-jr> any idea how difficult it would be to get water blocks? :þ
10:23 <philippeqc> that is snow/ice when it is solid
10:23 <GodTodd> not hard at all
10:23 <GodTodd> freeze it
10:23 <GodTodd> called ice cubes
10:23 <+luke-jr> GodTodd: stfu, I mean with OpenGL rendering
10:23 <GodTodd> then say what you mean
10:23 <+luke-jr> context, GodTodd, context
10:24 <GodTodd> [03:24] <luke-jr> any idea how difficult it would be to get water blocks? :þ
10:24 <GodTodd> yep
10:24 <GodTodd> context
10:24 <GodTodd> :)
10:24  * luke-jr ponders
10:24 <philippeqc> solid shape with high transparency, fill it with a volumetric fog, there you have water blocks
10:24 <+luke-jr> any kind of water/fog/etc would depend on alpha transparency, wouldn't it?
10:24 <philippeqc> at the most basic level, i'd guess so
10:25 <+luke-jr> philippeqc: how goes zones v2? I imagine this would be a subset?
10:25 <philippeqc> check the latest head
10:25 <philippeqc> dont understand ur latest question
10:27 <philippeqc> i fixed it so monitors could influence monitors now. so all is quite good
10:27 <+luke-jr> water blocks
10:27 <+luke-jr> that slow cycles or act on grinding
10:29 <philippeqc> yeah, could be! could be implemented as an effect. You could implement the logic in src/tron/zone/zEffector.cpp
10:38 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: did you have a look at that map i pointed you at?
10:38 <wrtlprnft> it used to work
10:38 <philippeqc> not yet
10:38 <philippeqc> havent touched code since last time we spoke
10:38 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
10:38 <philippeqc> i want to start by doing some cleaning up
10:41 <wrtlprnft> do whatever you like :-)
10:42 <philippeqc> i'll start by what needs to be done
10:43 <wrtlprnft> they're great maps, though :-)
10:46 <philippeqc> yes they are
10:47 <philippeqc> but right now I need to clear some of the mess i made trying to fix things up
10:47 <wrtlprnft> sure
10:48 <philippeqc> ok, one such thing fixed! one more to go.
11:08 <@armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r8076 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): changed influenceSlide, influenceAdd and influenceSet to influence in the InfluenceMonitorchanged rotationSpeed and rotationAngle to rotation in the ZoneInfluenceItemRotation
11:08 <philippeqc> that was the other thing i wanted to clean up.
11:08 <philippeqc> now to ed's map!
11:14 <wrtlprnft> was i supposed to understand a word of that ci message?
11:15 <philippeqc> probably only if you are familiar with the mechanism changed
11:16 <philippeqc> wow, it was particulary bad!
11:16 <philippeqc> now that i re-read it
11:17 <philippeqc> well, i changed some maps attributes (name given), and the equivalent code implementation (same name)
11:17 <wrtlprnft> ah
11:17 <philippeqc> instead of having 2 rotation attributes, they are merge in a single, very complex, one
11:18 <philippeqc> there were part of such changes underway when we tried ed's map
11:18 <wrtlprnft> makes sense, as far as i understand it
11:18 <philippeqc> so i need to convert his map to the new, it-works-now-but-the-syntax-blows format
11:19 <wrtlprnft> meh, there's many such maps :-(
11:21 <philippeqc> I'll try with one first
11:22 <philippeqc> my first feeling would be to drop the old notation in favor of the crappier new one.
11:22 <philippeqc> but i'm REALLY open for suggestion
11:23 <philippeqc> humm, i'd better give you an intro the the topic, otherwise you'll want to bang you brain out...
11:23 <philippeqc> ok: i have implemented a single variable polynomial: tPolynomial
11:24 <philippeqc> then i have a second object, a sort of 2 variable polynomial, lets call it a marshaler, but it is used only for the following:
11:24 <philippeqc> given A(t) (single variable polynomial)
11:25 <philippeqc> and B(x, t) (marshaler, that can be approximated as "B1(x) + t * B2(x)")
11:26 <philippeqc> i use the marshaler to produce C(t) such as : C(t) = B(A(t), t);
11:27 <philippeqc> ---
11:30 <philippeqc> so if you have Q(t) [the polynomial describing the current conQuest of a given fortress], and you want to find G(t) [the polynomial describing the current anGle of the zone], the map gave R(x, t) [the effect of conquest to the angle of the zone]
11:31 <philippeqc> G(t) = R( Q(t), t ); t being the current game time in this case.
11:46  * wrtlprnft is back.
11:46 <philippeqc> thought i'd scared you away!
11:46  * wrtlprnft runs away screaming
11:47 <philippeqc> that is more like the reaction i expected!
11:49 -!- zmanuel [n=manuel@p50871E01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
11:50 <wrtlprnft> basically a polynomial inside a polynomial?
11:52 <philippeqc> yeah, you could say that. but the transformation is done at run time each time an evaluation is needed. R(x, t) doesn't store Q(t), it receives it and produce G(t)
11:52 <wrtlprnft> so the client gets all that information, too?
11:52 <philippeqc> the client only receives G(t), the produced poly
11:52 <wrtlprnft> by the way, what happens with effects such as acceleration? does the client know about that?
11:53 <philippeqc> yes. Acceleration are simply order 2 values
11:53 <philippeqc> (wait, maybe i'm confusing my orders.... x^2)
11:54 <wrtlprnft> sorry, i was talking about cycle acceleration
11:54 <wrtlprnft> 	     <Effect effect="acceleration" value="50.0" />
11:54 <wrtlprnft> that stuff
11:54 <philippeqc> dont recall about these.
11:55 <philippeqc> it has not been applied to all parts
11:55 <philippeqc> it is more for zone rotation and monitors (fortress conquest) right now
11:56 <wrtlprnft> i guess it's something one can worry about later
11:56 <philippeqc> think of a fort bound from 0 to 1, started at 0. At time t=3, an attacker comes in. The poly describing that is set to have a slope of 0.25 from that time
11:57 <flex> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, can't remember my password for the resource repository.....
11:57 <philippeqc> that poly will stay the same as long as the attacker stays alone in the zone and it hasn't reached its makimal
11:57 <flex> luke-jr :D
11:58 <philippeqc> maximal
11:58 <philippeqc> maximum
11:58 <philippeqc> grrr!
11:58 <wrtlprnft> flex: time we get armathentication based resource uploads
11:59 <flex> whatever that is!
11:59 <philippeqc> from that conquest polynomial, one can generate the polynomial describing the rotation of the zone. That polynomial will be constant as long as the attacker is alone in the fortress.
11:59 <philippeqc> but still can be evaluated by the client at each frame to represent the current value
12:00 <flex> armapolynomial
12:00 <+luke-jr> flex: f u
12:00 <flex> :p
12:00 <flex> could you pm me a new pass pls :*
12:01 <philippeqc> flex, he told you he would do it For yoU!
12:01 <flex> ahh right
12:01 <philippeqc> ;)
12:02 <flex> I'd like my new password to be abit savvy and modern, at the same time being simplistic with abit of flavour
12:02 <guru3> "asshat"
12:03 <flex> missing the flavour there..
12:03 <guru3> not to me
12:03 <flex> arsehat would be perfect
12:03 <philippeqc> lol @ guru3
12:03 <guru3> & afk
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12:07 <flex> luke-jr
12:07 <flex> can i get a reset please :p
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13:24 <philippeqc> ohloh raking of our contribution (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/21/1733257)
13:25 <philippeqc> http://www.ohloh.net/projects/9112/analyses/latest/contributors
13:35 <guru3> according to that i'm useless
13:35 <wrtlprnft> err, what?
13:36 <wrtlprnft> z-man did more than 138 commits
13:36 <philippeqc> really strange what they count
13:37 <philippeqc> and how they count it
13:37 <philippeqc> guru3: that and the whole criticism from the article
13:38 <guru3> meh
13:38 <guru3> can't be bothered
13:38  * wrtlprnft thinks CIA is a much better indicator
13:54 <@armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8077 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. Makefile.am configure.ac scripts/ scripts/clio.pc.in): Manuel Moos: Added pkg-config script.
13:54 <@armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8078 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. Makefile.am): Manuel Moos: Repaired distcheck.
13:55 <@armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8079 /clio/trunk/clio/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added test documentation.
14:09 <wrtlprnft> wow, luke-jr's new server doesn't suck as much as one would think
14:10 <wrtlprnft> although the 1v1 endings are basically just waiting for the damn winzone
14:10 <+luke-jr> I have a new server?
14:10 <wrtlprnft> that 1pperteam fortress thing
14:11 <wrtlprnft> #lastseen wrtlprnft
14:11 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft |mbc| has last been seen on Solo Fortress (new game mode by Luke-Jr) 1 minute ago.
14:11 <wrtlprnft> it's got potential
14:11 <wrtlprnft> lots of backstabbing going on
14:12 <+luke-jr> o that one
14:12 <+luke-jr> O.o
14:12 <+luke-jr> you see the big map yet?
14:12 <wrtlprnft> no
14:12 <wrtlprnft> that is, i saw it mess up when a fifth person joined
14:12 <wrtlprnft> who left before the next round
14:14 <wrtlprnft> also, sp mode is messed up
14:14 <+luke-jr> O.o
14:14 <+luke-jr> SP mode is messed up, yes
14:34 <@armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8080 /clio/trunk/clio/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added single file documentation build, automatic file list generation and automatic navbar generation for the individual page docs.
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16:01 <philippeqc> #google (3 + 5*x) ^2
16:01 <@armabot> philippeqc: Search took 0.20 seconds: Equations with Fractions? x/ 3 - 5 =3(x - 2 )? - Yahoo! Answers: <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080221151432AAIl3yP>; Sets that have 2448: Panel 3 x 2 x 5 & 2 / 3: <http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/2448>; Panic - Transmit 3 - The next-generation Mac OS X FTP client!: <http://www.panic.com/transmit/>; Office for Mac - Easy Access to Downloads (2 more messages)
16:02 <wrtlprnft> #g (3 + 5*x) ^2
16:02 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
16:02 <wrtlprnft> philippeqc: 
16:02 <wrtlprnft> err
16:02 <philippeqc> crappy google calculator
16:02 <philippeqc> darn I have to do it by hands
16:02 <wrtlprnft> can't handle x
16:03 <wrtlprnft> #g (3 + 5m)^2
16:03 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
16:03 <wrtlprnft> #g (3 + 5i)^2
16:03 <@armabot> wrtlprnft: (3 + (5 * i))^2 = -16 + 30 i
16:03 <philippeqc> wrt, want to do it up to ^5 and compare answers?
16:03 <wrtlprnft> there you go, i == x, assuming x^2 == -1
16:03 <wrtlprnft> sec
16:04 <wrtlprnft> In> Expand((3 + 5*x)^2)
16:04 <wrtlprnft> Out> 25*x^2+30*x+9
16:05 <wrtlprnft> In> Expand((3 + 5*x)^3)
16:05 <wrtlprnft> Out> 125*x^3+225*x^2+135*x+27
16:05 <wrtlprnft> In> Expand((3 + 5*x)^4)
16:05 <wrtlprnft> Out> 625*x^4+1500*x^3+1350*x^2+540*x+81
16:05 <wrtlprnft> In> Expand((3 + 5*x)^5)
16:05 <wrtlprnft> Out> 3125*x^5+9375*x^4+11250*x^3+6750*x^2+2025*x+243
16:05 <philippeqc> o darn, I'm letting you count the following then:
16:06 <philippeqc> 3 + 5*(3 + 5*x) + 7*(3 + 5*x)^2 + 11*(3 + 5*x)^3 + 13*(3 + 5*x)^4 + 17*(3 + 5*x)^5
16:06 <philippeqc> what tool is that?
16:06 <wrtlprnft> In> Expand(3 + 5*(3 + 5*x) + 7*(3 + 5*x)^2 + 11*(3 + 5*x)^3 + 13*(3 + 5*x)^4 + 17*(3 + 5*x)^5)
16:06 <wrtlprnft> Out> 53125*x^5+167500*x^4+212125*x^3+134950*x^2+43165*x+5562
16:06 <wrtlprnft> yacas
16:07 <wrtlprnft> http://wrtlprnft.pastebin.ca/915121
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16:07 <wrtlprnft> it can even do some basic outputting to LaTeX formulae
16:08 <philippeqc> my, powerful!
16:08 <philippeqc> thanks!
16:08 <wrtlprnft> still a bit limited
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16:10 <philippeqc> well, more than enought for my own needs!
16:10 <wrtlprnft> yeah :-)
16:10 <wrtlprnft> mathematica is a way higher level, but for small things like this yacas is perfect
16:11 <philippeqc> i've never tried mathematica
16:12 <philippeqc> you sure saved me a bundle of work there, coming in just in time
16:12 <philippeqc> I'm writing unit test to validate the code i produce
16:12 <philippeqc> polynomial are a pain to debug when coupled with game logic ;)
16:12 <wrtlprnft> well, mathematica is expensive. I got a huge discount from my university
16:12 <wrtlprnft> probably even more when coupled with floats
16:13 <philippeqc> yeah, but i put some code like this when comparing values: (left - right) < someVerySmallValue
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16:15 <wrtlprnft> fabsf(), probably
16:15 <philippeqc> yes, of course
16:15 <philippeqc> silly me
16:18 <@armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r8081 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tools/ (tPolynomial.h unitTest/tPolynomialTest.cpp): Added a parser to tPolynomial, to enable better integration in gParser.Added substitute method to tPolynomial
16:19  * philippeqc is aiming for better metric by doing many small commits ;)
16:21 <wrtlprnft> haha
16:21 <wrtlprnft> you need to do one commit, then two to fix small errors you left intentionally
16:22 <philippeqc> well, that too
16:22 <philippeqc> btw, you should REALLY install workrave
16:23 <philippeqc> it is an ergonomic application forcing you to take micro breaks and rest-breaks
16:23 <philippeqc> that is *BEFORE* you start to have RSI problems
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16:24 <pippijn> philippeqc: I used workrave, too
16:24 <pippijn> it's good
16:24 <pippijn> I had RSI problems
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16:24 <pippijn> I always almost have them
16:24 <philippeqc> what did you switch to now?
16:24 <pippijn> workrave :-)
16:24 <pippijn> workrave is the best
16:24 <pippijn> too bad it needs gnome
16:24 <philippeqc> ok, read that you used to have workrave but that you didnt anymore
16:25 <pippijn> I don't use it right now
16:25 <pippijn> I don't have RSI right now
16:25 <philippeqc> i dunno if i run gnome or kde, but i dont care the lib dependencies, they are worth it
16:25 <philippeqc> i keep it running, forcing me to take mini pauses
16:25 <philippeqc> to avoid getting any RSI
16:26 <pippijn> that's good
16:26 <philippeqc> i put the microbreak at 7 min, 25 sec pause
16:26 <pippijn> I kept it at 3 min
16:26 <pippijn> I kept all defaults
16:26 <philippeqc> i realised that if I'm stuck on a prob for 2 cycles, i need to just switch to something else.
16:27 <philippeqc> take a toilet break, what ever. wheni come back, i usually have an answer, or clearer mind
16:27 <philippeqc> that was too extreme for my taste (3 min)
16:27 <pippijn> same here
16:27 <pippijn> (toilet break)
16:29 <philippeqc> i got that ;)
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16:31 <philippeqc> pippijn: do you program?
16:31 <pippijn> yes
16:31 <philippeqc> then i have another good practice to "share"
16:31 <philippeqc> read about (and USES) unit test!
16:32 <pippijn> I read and used unit tests
16:32 <philippeqc> goooood!
16:32 <pippijn> I don't any longer, though :-)
16:33 <philippeqc> no?
16:33 <philippeqc> tsk tsk tsk
16:33 <philippeqc> how come?
16:33 <pippijn> I prefer regression tests
16:34 <pippijn> if a regression test fails, I start using unit tests
16:34 <philippeqc> do you have tools for automatic regression test?
16:34 <pippijn> no
16:34 <pippijn> regression tests are always different
16:35 <philippeqc> they cover 2 very different aspect. Unit test guaranties that each individual block work as expected. Regression need to assume that things worked in the past.
16:35 <pippijn> correct
16:36 <philippeqc> and when things start to fuck up, or when integrating new features, you still have to inspect the the whole trace
16:36 <pippijn> my current project is a larger one (2MB of C++ code)
16:37 <philippeqc> unit allow you to start with the assumption that at least the final blocks are correct
16:37 <pippijn> many blocks depend on each other
16:37 <wrtlprnft> your STL replacement thing?
16:37 <pippijn> no
16:37 <pippijn> and it's not a replacement
16:37 <pippijn> it's a supplement
16:37 <pippijn> (except for vector, which I did replace)
16:38 <philippeqc> pippijn: I'm better with Java than C++, but with JUnit, there is JMock, that allow you to mock external object, so you can basically unit test methods that need to do external calls/lookup
16:39 <philippeqc> if you are developing a library, unittest should be great for you!
16:39 <pippijn> it's a programming language interpreter
16:40 <philippeqc> a vm to run language, a compiler, or a lib to uses "script" from an app or something else
16:41 <pippijn> hm
16:41 <pippijn> it is a vm to run the language
16:41 <pippijn> but it doesn't compile to bytecode
16:41 <philippeqc> got a web page (with some screenshots ;) )
16:41 <pippijn> it compiles to an internal representation of the code
16:41 <pippijn> screenshots are useless, as the language doesn't support graphics
16:42 <pippijn> it will likely never support graphics
16:42 <philippeqc> that is why i put a smiley beside
16:42 <pippijn> and I have no website for it
16:42 <philippeqc> k
16:42 <pippijn> I took ideas (no code) from this language: http://q-lang.sourceforge.net/
16:44 <pippijn> but my language has pure and impure functions
16:44 <pippijn> Q has only impure functions
16:44 <philippeqc> k
16:45 <pippijn> pure functional modules consist of equations only (equations like in Q)
16:46 <pippijn> I am working on a mathematical term optimiser
16:46 <philippeqc> and ended up with a full blow language interpreter?
16:46 <pippijn> well
16:47 <pippijn> it's really still a term optimiser
16:47 <philippeqc> ;)
16:47 <pippijn> but you can write certain programs with it
16:47 <pippijn> let me show you one of them
16:49 <pippijn> philippeqc: http://pip.one09.net/files/up/version.txt
16:52 <philippeqc> neat
16:53 <pippijn> is __STDC_VERSION__ standard?
16:53 <philippeqc> dunno
16:54 <pippijn> 16:54 [freenode] CTCP VERSION reply from community: Coding Bitch
16:54 <pippijn> I didn't even send a request..
16:56 <pippijn> flex generates code that expects it to exist (__STDC_VERSION__)
16:56 <pippijn> so pedantic gcc won't compile it
16:59 <wrtlprnft> -D__STDC_VERSION__=42?
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16:59 <pippijn> torres: << __STDC_VERSION__
16:59 <torres> '__STDC_VERSION__' was not declared in this scope
16:59 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: yes
17:02 <wrtlprnft> hmm
17:02 <wrtlprnft> ln(x)^y
17:02 <wrtlprnft> would you read that as ln(x^y) or (ln(x))^y?
17:03 <pippijn> the latter
17:03 <philippeqc> b
17:03 <wrtlprnft> i thought that, too
17:03 <wrtlprnft> my math textbook apparently sees it the first way
17:03 <wrtlprnft> stupid non-programming math people
17:04 <wrtlprnft> just use brackets for all functions and don't do special cases for stuff like ln and sin!
17:06 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: how would you implement a type-switch in C++?
17:07 <wrtlprnft> just create a virtual function in some basce class and let it do all the work?
17:08 <wrtlprnft> *base
17:08 <pippijn> ...
17:09 <wrtlprnft> well, failing that i'd just use a lot of ifs with typeinfo::operator==
17:09 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/373eeab2d031a83295a7bf8593aecff5.txt
17:11 <wrtlprnft> virtual char const *getType() {return "membership axiom"/"equation"/"rule";}?
17:12 <wrtlprnft> assuming that your operator << uses a virtual function
17:13 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I have to do that many many times
17:13 <pippijn> this type-switch thing
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17:13 <pippijn> it would make everything so unclear if I had to make a function for each of them
17:14 <wrtlprnft> <TeacherMode>that means you have a bad concept</TeacherMode>
17:14 <wrtlprnft> then go with your dynamic_cast way i guess…
17:14 <pippijn> I could abuse try/catch :-D
17:15 <wrtlprnft> ouch
17:15 <pippijn> I could even wrap in in macros to make it seem pretty
17:16 <wrtlprnft> try{while(true) System.out.println(someArray[i++]);}catch(ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException e){}
17:16 <wrtlprnft> note that try/catch is slow if you're actually throwing stuff
17:16 <pippijn> slower than doing dynamic_cast over and over again?
17:17 <wrtlprnft> what's the difference?
17:17 <wrtlprnft> you'd still be doing dynamic casts, just with references, right?
17:17 <pippijn> hm?
17:17 <pippijn> no
17:17 <wrtlprnft> but?
17:18 <pippijn> try { ob->throwme (); } catch (sort_constraint const *blep) { cout << "membership axiom etc..." ...
17:18 <wrtlprnft> err, does that work?
17:18 <pippijn> yes
17:19  * wrtlprnft goes test it
17:19 <pippijn> do it right and it will work
17:19  * pippijn goes eat
17:19 <pippijn> cya later
17:21 <wrtlprnft> torres: class base{virtual void ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base *b = new derived(); throw b;}catch(derived *d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}
17:21 <torres> return type specification for destructor invalid
17:21 <wrtlprnft> torres: class base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base *b = new derived(); throw b;}catch(derived *d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}
17:21 <torres> 'base::~base()' is private
17:21 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base *b = new derived(); throw b;}catch(derived *d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}
17:21 <torres> expected `}' at end of input
17:21 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base *b = new derived(); throw b;}catch(derived *d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}}
17:21 <torres> uncaught exception of type base*
17:21 <wrtlprnft> grml
17:22 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base *b = new derived(); throw b;}catch(derived *d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}catch(base *b){std::cout<<"boo\n";}}
17:22 <torres> boo
17:22 <wrtlprnft> torres: how do you do it right, then?
17:22 <torres> expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before 'do'
17:22 <wrtlprnft> err
17:23 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base &b = *(new derived()); throw b;}catch(derived &d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}catch(base &b){std::cout<<"boo\n";}}
17:23 <torres> boo
17:23 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{derived &b = *(new derived()); throw b;}catch(derived &d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}catch(base &b){std::cout<<"boo\n";}}
17:23 <torres> hi
17:23 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct base{virtual ~base(){}};class derived:public base{}; int main() {try{base &b = *(new derived()); throw b;}catch(derived &d){std::cout<<"hi\n";}catch(base &b){std::cout<<"boo\n";}}
17:23 <torres> boo
17:23 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: i don't see how this could ever work
17:26 <philippeqc> pippijn: read about RTTI (Runtime Type Identification)
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17:42 <z-man> are we having a cram-as-much-C++-as-you-can-into-one-line competition?
17:43 <wrtlprnft> heh
17:43 <wrtlprnft> then i wouldn't bother to spell “derived”
17:45 <z-man> class D:public B{}?
17:45 <wrtlprnft> for example
17:46 <wrtlprnft> torres: main(){try throw 1; catch(int i) cout << i;}
17:46 <torres> ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'main' with no type
17:46 <wrtlprnft> grml
17:46 <wrtlprnft> torres: int main(){try throw 1; catch(int i) cout << i;}
17:46 <torres> expected `{' before 'throw'
17:46 <wrtlprnft> aww :-(
17:46  * wrtlprnft wonders if there's a reason for that
17:47 <z-man> actually, it's expected after try.
17:47 <wrtlprnft> yeah, but why is that?
17:47 <wrtlprnft> i understand why it's needed for functions and structs/classes
17:48 <z-man> because a single statement try block would not make much sense in most situations?
17:48 <wrtlprnft> if it's a function call?
17:48  * wrtlprnft can imagine a lot of possibilities
17:48 <z-man> me too, that's why I wrote "most".
17:48 <wrtlprnft> torres: int main(){try {throw 1;} catch(int i) cout << i;}
17:48 <torres> expected `{' before 'cout'
17:48 <wrtlprnft> same thing
17:49 <wrtlprnft> i don't see how there could be an ambiguity without braces
17:50 <wrtlprnft> int SomeClass::someMember() const SomeType t(); ← that's ambiguous
17:51 <wrtlprnft> but oh well, we're talking about a language here that can't even always distinguish between global objects and function calls X-(
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: philippeqc * r8082 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tools/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: Separated tPolynomialMarshaler from tPolynomial.h
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: Made tPolynomialMarshaler a template class, so removed the file tPolynomial.cpp
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: tPolynomialMarshaler now relies on 2 tPolynomial internally rather than 2 arrays of numbers
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: tPolynomial has a parsing constructor
17:52 <@armabot> armagetronad: Updated relevant unit test
17:53 -!- mode/#armagetron [-o armabot] by ChanServ
17:53 <philippeqc> lol, i got armabot to be banned for spamming!
17:53 <wrtlprnft> not really.
17:54 <wrtlprnft> i just deoped her because i realized she was still op'd from that suicide debate
17:54 <philippeqc> ok, thought armabot was punished by ChanServ
17:54 <wrtlprnft> what does tPoly parse?
17:55 <philippeqc> it parses its own argument from a single string
17:55 <philippeqc> easier that way to unit test it
17:56 <wrtlprnft> what does the string look like? ;-)
17:56 <wrtlprnft> that's what i really wanted to know
17:56 <philippeqc> tPolynomial<nMessage> tp("3;5;7:21;22;23");
17:56 <philippeqc> sorry, bad syntax
17:56 <philippeqc> darn!
17:56 <philippeqc> syntax is semi-colon separated values, ordered by order
17:56 <wrtlprnft> ascending?
17:56 <philippeqc> yes
17:57 <wrtlprnft> x+5x+tx²+…?
17:57 <wrtlprnft> s/t/7
17:57 <philippeqc> yes
17:57 <wrtlprnft> wow, that line contains lots of mistakes
17:57 <philippeqc> ==> "0;5;7"
17:57 <philippeqc> ==> "1;5;7"
17:57 <philippeqc> is what you meant, not what you wrote
17:57 <wrtlprnft> i wanted to write 3+5x+7x²+…
17:58 <philippeqc> ==> "3;5;7"
17:58 <wrtlprnft> i was translating your original string
17:58 <wrtlprnft> 17:56 <philippeqc> tPolynomial<nMessage> tp("3;5;7:21;22;23");
17:58 <philippeqc> I'm not even going to pretend it is a good syntax. It is just a "I need something to move forward" syntax
17:58  * wrtlprnft is still wondering if it's a good idea to make a template class that can only be used for nMessages…
17:59 <wrtlprnft> it's fine :-)
17:59 <philippeqc> dependencies on package that you shouldnt have dependencies too!
17:59 <philippeqc> another "I need something to move forward"
18:00 <philippeqc> that code is filled with them
18:00 <wrtlprnft> as long as it works
18:00 <philippeqc> if somebody changes all that code to something smart, i'll be more than happy
18:00 <philippeqc> yeah, but it is a major PITA to read
18:02 <philippeqc> I'm going toward one indirect suggestion you made to support older format of maps (mostly from ed it seems)
18:04 <wrtlprnft> if it's not too hard…
18:13 <philippeqc> well, i havent come to that part yet ;)
18:13 <philippeqc> i dont know that I started to do that brought me here
18:13 <philippeqc> o yeah, parsing from gParser!
18:28  * epsy is falling into headache
18:30 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@117.241-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
18:53 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8083 /clio/trunk/clio/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added "main" header, simplified wrapper registration, and finished "Hello World!" doc.
18:53 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8084 /clio/trunk/clio/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added some more doc pages.
18:54 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8085 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. clio/helptest.hpp clio/state.cpp clio/state.hpp): Manuel Moos: Added DoFile and DoString commands to State.
18:54 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8086 /clio/trunk/clio/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added more docs.
18:56 <epsy> oooo
18:57 <wrtlprnft> is that your headache or amazement?
18:58 <+luke-jr> docs are pretty amazing
18:59 <wrtlprnft> bzr pull
18:59 <wrtlprnft> oops
19:02 <mkzelda> #seen durka
19:02 <armabot> mkzelda: durka was last seen in #armagetron 6 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 50 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Durka> k um
19:32 <flex> hehe
19:33 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s()} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";}
19:33 <torres> expected ';' before '}' token
19:33 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s();} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";}
19:33 <torres> unused variable 'a'
19:33 <wrtlprnft> stfu and compile it!
19:33 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s();} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";&a;}
19:33 <torres> statement has no effect
19:33 <wrtlprnft> STFU!!!
19:34 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s();} void g(s const &);{} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";g(a)}
19:34 <torres> expected unqualified-id before '{' token
19:34 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s();} void g(s const &);{} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";g(a);}
19:34 <torres> expected unqualified-id before '{' token
19:34 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing\n";}}; s f(){return s();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";g(a);}
19:34 <torres> hi
19:36 <wrtlprnft> hmm
19:36 <wrtlprnft> according to what i just read it *should* destruct
19:36 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; s f(){return s();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi\n";g(a);}
19:36 <torres> hi
19:36 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; s f(){return s();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi";g(a);}
19:36 <torres> hidestructing
19:36 <wrtlprnft> aaah
19:36 <wrtlprnft> it only returns the first line
19:39 <wrtlprnft> hmm, auto_ptr for the poor :-)
19:39 <wrtlprnft> i've definitely got to remember this
19:45 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{virtual ~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; struct t:public s{~s(){cout << "~t";}; s f(){return t();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi";g(a);}
19:45 <torres> declaration of '~s' as member of 't'
19:45 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{virtual ~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; struct t:public s{~t(){cout << "~t";}; s f(){return t();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi";g(a);}
19:45 <torres> expected `}' at end of input
19:45 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{virtual ~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; struct t:public s{~t(){cout << "~t";}}; s f(){return t();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi";g(a);}
19:45 <torres> ~tdestructinghidestructing
19:46 <wrtlprnft> oh, duh
19:46 <wrtlprnft> torres: struct s{virtual ~s(){cout << "destructing";}}; struct t:public s{~t(){cout << "~t";}}; t f(){return t();} void g(s const &){} int main(){s const &a = f();cout << "hi";g(a);}
19:46 <torres> hi~tdestructing
19:46 <wrtlprnft> neato. Not a single copy construction involved.
19:48 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: i want to keep torres :-D
19:49 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: although its warnings are too pendantic. In those short throwaway testcases i don't care about unused variables
19:57 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/88ba70d2032fa27468410326b71ce432.txt
19:57 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: that's what I meant
19:58 <pippijn> throwme in base can be pure if you like
20:01 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8087 /clio/trunk/clio/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Manuel Moos: added enum docs.
20:01 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8088 /clio/trunk/clio/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added documentation for class property type traits.
20:02 <pippijn> z-man: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/95a13a3e177a8b790400ea768195f60b.txt <- much shorter with dynamic cast
20:03 <z-man> shorter maybe, but more efficient?
20:03 <pippijn> that's the question
20:03 <pippijn> I'm benchmarking it now
20:04 <z-man> In theory, the compiler could add a magic "catchme" virtual method.
20:04 <pippijn> wow
20:04 <pippijn> it's incredible
20:04 <pippijn> the dynamic_cast method is *much* faster
20:04 <pippijn> by a factor of 200
20:04 <pippijn> maybe I'm doing something wrong?
20:04 <z-man> probably :)
20:05 <z-man> Factor 200 usually means the compiler optimized something away completely.
20:05 <pippijn> I'll look at the asm produced for each
20:05 <philippeqc> pippijn: have you looked up RTTI (RUntime Type Identification
20:06 <pippijn> philippeqc: C++ offers little functionality for that
20:06 <z-man> since he's using dynamic_cast, I assume he knows.
20:06 <pippijn> much less than say.. java
20:06 <pippijn> with reflection and all
20:06 <pippijn> z-man: even without optimisation, it's much faster with dynamic_cast
20:06 <pippijn> factor 90
20:06 <philippeqc> strange, I'm holding a book talking about it in C++
20:06 <z-man> Hmm, that's odd.
20:06 <philippeqc> ok, just a tiny chapter
20:07 <pippijn> philippeqc: what exactly does it say that might be of help in this matter?
20:07 <philippeqc> let me read on!
20:07 <pippijn> okay
20:07 <z-man> The thing that can be slow in the cach() method can be the various catch()es
20:07 <z-man> and you still have ONE of them in the dynamic_cast method.
20:08 <pippijn> I thought catch() worked like a switch()
20:08 <pippijn> so I had expected it to be faster
20:08 <z-man> Ah wait, you're not throwing anything in the other method?
20:08 <pippijn> because with throw, it has to check *once* what type it is
20:08 <pippijn> and choose
20:08 <pippijn> which catch() to take
20:08 <pippijn> whereas with dynamic_cast it has to attempt a cast every time
20:08 <z-man> But exception throwing has to do all kinds of stack magic.
20:09 <z-man> If you're not throwing at all, no wonder it gets faster :)
20:09 <z-man> Still better would be the visitor pattern, of course.
20:09 <pippijn> I am aware, but I thought it might see that there is nothing stack-related going on inside the try{} block
20:09 <pippijn> z-man: it would make things overly complex
20:09 <z-man> Sure.
20:10 <pippijn> because what you see there is what I mostly do
20:10 <pippijn> output stuff depending on the dynamic type of an object
20:10 <philippeqc> sorry my brain is locked on a problem i have in my code.
20:10 <z-man> And different type choices and different object sets every time?
20:10 <pippijn> yes
20:11 <pippijn> not every time, but most are different
20:11  * z-man does not what to know what you are working on
20:12 <pippijn> a mathematical term optimiser (or better: transformer)
20:12 <pippijn> the transformations may be optimising but don't need to be
20:13 <pippijn> -Weffc++ is stupid
20:13 <pippijn> it's okay.. but I am not going to fix all the warnings it emits
20:14 <pippijn> if I follow all of its advice, I will end up with inefficient code
20:14 <pippijn> it wants me to initialise all member variables in constructors
20:14 <pippijn> but doing so is not always necessary and will slow down things measurably
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20:47 <pippijn> torres: { int i; }
20:47 <torres> unused variable 'i'
20:47 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:48 <flex> eddiefantastic here?
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20:54 <pippijn> torres: { int i; }
20:54 <torres> unused variable 'i'
20:54 <pippijn> hm
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20:55 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: that's what i'm talking about ;-)
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20:55 <wrtlprnft> hi bye
20:55 <pippijn> torres: { int i; }
20:55 -!- torres [n=torres@pD9E9F075.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
20:55 <pippijn> torres: { int i; }
20:55 <torres> Unexpected linker error: /usr/bin/ld: cannot open output file t: Permission denied
20:55 <pippijn> grml
20:55 -!- torres [n=torres@unixcorps/staff/pippijn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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20:56 <pippijn> torres: { int i; }
20:56 <torres> Compilation and execution successful, no program output.
20:56 <pippijn> finally
20:56 <wrtlprnft> thanks
20:56 <wrtlprnft> torres: { return 42; }
20:56 <torres> Subprocess /t died on signal 42 (Real-time signal 8)
20:56 <wrtlprnft> real-time signal?
20:57 <pippijn> known bug in torres
20:57 <pippijn> I haven't been bothered to fix it
20:57 <wrtlprnft> what is that?
20:58 <pippijn> torres thinks return values are signals
20:58 <pippijn> torres: << strsignal (42)
20:58 <torres> Real-time signal 8
20:58 <pippijn> torres: << strsignal (11)
20:58 <torres> Segmentation fault
20:59 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: torres supports multiline btw
20:59 <pippijn> torres: {
20:59 <pippijn> torres: #define foo "bar"
20:59 <pippijn> torres: cout << foo;
20:59 <pippijn> torres: }
20:59 <torres> bar
21:00 <wrtlprnft> with immediate feedback?
21:00 <wrtlprnft> torres: { if true {
21:00 <wrtlprnft> torres: }}
21:00 <torres> expected `(' before 'true'
21:00 <wrtlprnft> aww :-(
21:00 <wrtlprnft> could have told me after the first line
21:00 <wrtlprnft> maybe i'm expecting too much
21:00 <pippijn> you are
21:00 <pippijn> torres doesn't parse your code
21:00 <pippijn> it just passes it to gcc
21:01 <wrtlprnft> aww
21:01 <wrtlprnft> gcc doesn't immediately complain about parse errors when parsing from stdin
21:02 <pippijn> indeed
21:02 <pippijn> it can't
21:02 <wrtlprnft> torres: { fork(); }
21:02 <torres> Disallowed syscall 56 (stub_clone) called
21:02 <wrtlprnft> torres: { malloc(1024*1024); }
21:02 <torres> Compilation and execution successful, no program output.
21:02 <wrtlprnft> torres: { malloc(1024*1024*1024); }
21:02 <torres> Compilation and execution successful, no program output.
21:02 <wrtlprnft> torres: { malloc(1024*1024*1024*1024); }
21:02 <torres> overflow in implicit constant conversion
21:02 <pippijn> torres: << malloc (1024*1024)
21:02 <torres> 0x2ba701547040
21:02 <pippijn> torres: << malloc (1024*1024*1024)
21:02 <torres> 0
21:03 <wrtlprnft> torres: << malloc(1024*1024*1024)
21:03 <torres> 0
21:03 <wrtlprnft> oh
21:03 <wrtlprnft> torres: { for(;;); }
21:03 <torres> Timeout: /t
21:03 <wrtlprnft> torres: { for(;;)malloc(1024*1024); }
21:03 <torres> Timeout: /t
21:03 <epsy> lol
21:03 <wrtlprnft> torres: { for(;;)malloc(1024*1024*32); }
21:03 <torres> Timeout: /t
21:04 <wrtlprnft> torres: { while(malloc(1024*1024*32); cout << ":-("; }
21:04 <torres> expected `)' before ';' token
21:04 <wrtlprnft> torres: { while(malloc(1024*1024*32)); cout << ":-("; }
21:04 <torres> :-(
21:04 <wrtlprnft> torres: { while(malloc(1024*1024)); cout << ":-("; }
21:04 <torres> :-(
21:04 <pippijn> The pointer returned [by malloc] points to the start (lowest byte address) of the allocated space.
21:04 <pippijn> If the space cannot be allocated, a null pointer is returned.
21:04 <wrtlprnft> torres: { int i = 0; while(malloc(1024*1024))++i; cout << i; }
21:04 <torres> 185
21:04 <wrtlprnft> ah, there's a fixed limit
21:05 <pippijn> yes
21:05 <wrtlprnft> 185 MB is plenty, i guess
21:05 <wrtlprnft> torres: { int i = 0; while(malloc(1024*1024))++i; cout << i; }
21:05 <wrtlprnft> torres: { int i = 0; while(malloc(1024*1024))++i; cout << i; }
21:05 <wrtlprnft> torres: { int i = 0; while(malloc(1024*1024))++i; cout << i; }
21:05 <torres> 185
21:05 <torres> 185
21:05 <torres> 185
21:05 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/9b674f6e5e0f0d00b88ae8900728d69d.txt
21:06 <wrtlprnft> alias add eviltorres echo torres: << "#eviltorres"
21:06 <wrtlprnft> #alias add eviltorres echo torres: << "#eviltorres"
21:06 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:06 <wrtlprnft> #eviltorres
21:06 <armabot> torres: << #eviltorres
21:07 <pippijn> torres: << "I'm not evil"
21:07 <torres> I'm not evil
21:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add eviltorres echo torres: << 'e' << 'v' << 'i' << 'l' << 't' << 'o' << 'r' << 'r' << 'e' << 's'
21:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:07 <wrtlprnft> #alias add eviltorres echo torres: << '#' << 'e' << 'v' << 'i' << 'l' << 't' << 'o' << 'r' << 'r' << 'e' << 's'
21:07 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:07 <wrtlprnft> #eviltorres
21:07 <armabot> torres: << '#' << 'e' << 'v' << 'i' << 'l' << 't' << 'o' << 'r' << 'r' << 'e' << 's'
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21:08 <wrtlprnft> does it ignore armabot?
21:08 <pippijn> yes
21:08 <wrtlprnft> aww :-(
21:08 <wrtlprnft> #alias remove eviltorres
21:08 <armabot> wrtlprnft: The operation succeeded.
21:08 <flex> wrtlprnft urm i'm confused.. when you block/disable players from double binding.. how exactly is it possible for a player to start double binding?
21:09 <epsy> cheating
21:09 <wrtlprnft> torres: { main(); }
21:09 <torres> Subprocess /t died on signal 11 (Segmentation fault)
21:09 <flex> how exactly..
21:09 <epsy> the check is done client side
21:09 <wrtlprnft> can only be done on the client side
21:09 <epsy> if it's the same key or not
21:09 <flex> so he's doing what exactly?
21:09 <flex> modifing the code?
21:09 <epsy> yes
21:09 <wrtlprnft> flex: press shift-esc to cheat…
21:09 <flex> ah kay
21:09 <flex> thanks!
21:09 <wrtlprnft> epsy: actually you could just do a simple text replace on the binary :-(
21:09 <epsy> so arma always acts like if it was the same key
21:10 <epsy> orly?
21:10 <wrtlprnft> to make it not know the setting
21:10 <epsy> indeed
21:10 <wrtlprnft> same goes for all the camera forbid stuff
21:10 <flex> ok where do i edit that :D
21:10 <pippijn> that's the problem with smart (fat) clients
21:10 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: most things in arma are done on the server
21:10  * epsy wonders how quake's anticheat codes work
21:10 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: but the server can't know exactly what keys were pressed
21:11  * epsy is totally confused how it isn't cheated all the time
21:11 <wrtlprnft> heck, i could just get a modified keyboard
21:11 -!- tramshed [i=tramshed@im.catapultingfeces.com] has quit [Network is unreachable]
21:12 <flex> modified keyboard?
21:12 <flex> huh
21:12 <epsy> modified keymapping if you prefer
21:12 <wrtlprnft> one with multiple left/right keys that send the same code to the computer
21:12 <wrtlprnft> no way of detecting that
21:12  * wrtlprnft remebers the good old turbo joysticks
21:13 <flex> that really annoys me
21:14 <epsy> tell an admin of your beloved nexus9 server
21:14 <flex> if the admin was actually even awake ever! maybe we could get the guy baned
21:14 <flex> N9_kiwi isn't awake..
21:14 <flex> banned
21:14 <epsy> get him to promote new moderators
21:15 <flex> oh 'mr know it all' orly?
21:16 <flex> that's reallllyyy annoying
21:18 <wrtlprnft> maybe he's just got two keyboards
21:18 <wrtlprnft> take a random usb keyboard and connect it to a laptop
21:18 <wrtlprnft> that would be the approach even a total noob could pull off
21:18 <flex> dude that would be same speed...
21:18 <flex> i can do a near close double beind with two different buttons..
21:19 <flex> oops
21:19 <flex> one button i meant :p
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21:21 <wrtlprnft> maybe the other guy is just better than you.
21:22 <flex> impossible
21:22 <wrtlprnft> unpleasant idea eh?
21:22 <flex> no, it's just impossible
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22:18 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8089 /clio/trunk/clio/ (12 files in 6 dirs): Manuel Moos: Added template doc, begun data conversion doc. Discovered odditiy in "Clio Ref" template, investigating.
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22:54 <flea> sup with the beta site?
22:55 <flea> luke-jr isnt that yours?
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23:11 <wrtlprnft> flex: yeah it's luke-jr's
23:12 <wrtlprnft> and it's just slow
23:12 <wrtlprnft> which is nothing new
23:14 <sasori_away> not flex, flea.. lol
23:16 <wrtlprnft> argh, whatever
23:16 <wrtlprnft> fle<tab>
23:26 <flea> lol wrtl[tab]
23:28 <mkzelda> wrtlprftab
23:28 <mkzelda> spoops
23:29 <mkzelda> #weather 27607
23:29 <armabot> mkzelda: The current temperature in NC State Area, Raleigh, North Carolina is 58.5°F (5:30 PM EST on February 23, 2008). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 50.0°F. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011.1 hPa (Rising).
23:29 <mkzelda> #weather -set 27607
23:29 <armabot> mkzelda: The current temperature in NC State Area, Raleigh, North Carolina is 58.5°F (5:30 PM EST on February 23, 2008). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 50.0°F. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011.1 hPa (Rising).
23:30 <mkzelda> #fc
23:33 <flea> mk that state game started at 7
23:33 <flea> thats why we didnt find it
23:34 <mkzelda> oh
23:45 <flex> how dare you tab me!
23:53 -!- Stewie-arma [n=Stewie-a@cpe-76-88-47-247.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
23:54 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r8090 /clio/trunk/clio/ (. doc/argument_conversion.t2t.in doc/main.t2t.in): Manuel Moos: more on argument conversion.
23:54 <libervisco> !seen durka
23:54 <libervisco> #seen durka
23:54 <epsy> libervisco, #seen durka ?
23:54 <armabot> libervisco: durka was last seen in #armagetron 6 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 43 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Durka> k um
23:55 <libervisco> #seen ender
23:55 <armabot> libervisco: ender was last seen in #armagetron 16 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 59 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <ender> ms paint :)
23:55 <libervisco> wow they're away too long
23:55 <flex> away?
23:55 <cusco> way
23:55 <flex> durka has quit..
23:56 <epsy> #lastseen Durka
23:56 <epsy> :P
23:56 <armabot> epsy: Durka has last been seen on  Wild West  =Team Sumo= 16 hours 58 minutes ago.
23:56 <libervisco> They should have a match..
23:56 <flex> lol
23:56 <libervisco> #lastseen ender
23:56 <armabot> libervisco: ender has last been seen on  Wild West  =Capture The Flag= 23 hours 11 minutes ago.
23:56 <libervisco> hm
23:56 <cusco> #lastseen cusco
23:56 <flex> ok so he's not being serious..
23:57 <armabot> cusco: timed out
23:57 <cusco> not been seen
23:57 <libervisco> mkzelda, I'm on "Freedomware Gamefest USA server"
23:57 <libervisco> I'm hoping they show up too
23:57 <libervisco> I did send an email 6 hours ago
23:57 <libervisco> as a reminder
23:58 <flea> is that a match?
23:58 <libervisco> It's coming 6PM GMT-5 (Central American Time), right? :P
23:58 <libervisco> Yes
23:58 <flea> who is it
23:59 <libervisco> Group 3, Freedomware Gamefest, Armagetron Advanced Tournament - mkzelda, ender and durka
23:59 <flea> 3ppl?
23:59 <libervisco> yes, three all in one matches between them for qualifiers should be played

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