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Log from 2008-02-04:
--- Day changed Mon Feb 04 2008
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00:36 <Mixnetwork_> z-man?
00:36 <z-man> yeah?
00:37 <Mixnetwork_> wher do i get that output
00:37 <z-man>  /var/log/armagetronad.log
00:38 <Mixnetwork_> ok, have it
00:38 <Mixnetwork_> its big
00:40 <z-man> either attach it or just pick the end of it.
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00:41 <Mixnetwork_> why does that boead does not have a line break? cann reply anymor
00:41 <Mixnetwork_> board
00:41 <Mixnetwork_> button is gone :)
00:41 <z-man> Because you posted overlong lines, scroll to the right.
00:42 <Mixnetwork_> have it
00:44 <Mixnetwork_> hmm
00:45 <Mixnetwork_> never postet an attachment
00:45 <Mixnetwork_> i uploaded it but cann't see it
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00:46 <z-man> It has an illegal extension. Put it into a .zip file.
00:47 <z-man> or rename it to .not.zip, that works too.
00:47 <z-man> It also may be too large, we've got a 2 Mb limit.
00:47 <Mixnetwork_> ok
00:49 <Mixnetwork_> ok, is up
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00:55 <ct|kyle> z-man: what verion did you use to record in
00:55 <z-man>
00:55 <ct|kyle> ok thnaks
00:55  * z-man will add that
00:55 <ct|kyle> i would but i can't
00:57 <z-man> heh :)
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01:24 <StickyNoob> dear lord i should read the arma forums more
01:24 <StickyNoob> what x members are doing is getting quite embarasing
01:26 <Lackadaisical> you only have three options sticky!
01:26 <StickyNoob> leave, stay, destroy them from the inside?
01:31 <z-man> Nah, those options are WORTHLESS.
01:34 <StickyNoob> #echo $leave
01:34 <armabot> $leave
01:34 <StickyNoob> clearly
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01:36 <Mixnetwork> good night all
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01:37 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7718 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8-auth/armagetronad/src/engine/ePlayer.cpp:
01:37 <armabot> armagetronad: Fixed epsy's eavesdropping bug where a moderator that is invited, but not member of a team could read /team messages.
01:37 <armabot> armagetronad: When looking for a player name, the input name is now filtered as well.
01:44 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7719 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tools/tPolynomial.h: Gaa, fixed annoying warnings by replacing the dangerous int->polynomial implicit conversion constructor with a float->polynomial constructor that sets the polynomial to a constant.
01:44 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7720 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Config file rotation now looks in var directories and prints error messages if config files are not found.
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01:45 <z-man> bedtime, correct.
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03:21 <flex> #rating |x|_flex
03:21 <armabot> flex: |x|_flex is 100th with a rating of 1543-1607 (from 1150-1850)
03:21 <flex> :o
03:21 <flex> nothing changed
03:21 <ct|kyle> #rating ct_ky13
03:21 <armabot> ct|kyle: ct_ky13 is 861st with a rating of 1090-1478 (from 1150-1850)
03:21 <flex> haha :p
03:22 <ct|kyle> i have not played much look at the wide spread
03:23 <StickyNoob> #rating sticky
03:23 <armabot> StickyNoob: I don't know anything about 'sticky'!
03:24 <StickyNoob> #rating |x|_sticky
03:24 <armabot> StickyNoob: |x|_sticky is 360th with a rating of 1395-1525 (from 1150-1850)
03:24 <flex> hehe
03:24 <flex> when you sleeping sticky
03:25 <StickyNoob> soon
03:25 <flex> luke-jr
03:25 <flex> is the rating server down?
03:25 <flex> how comes i got no points today
03:25 <StickyNoob> was watching super bowl, then realised why i stopped watching American football
03:26 <flex> what's the scores
03:26 <StickyNoob> dun i stopped watching
03:26 <flex> i don't even know what's happening
03:27 <flex> it's like rugby right
03:27 <StickyNoob> ever played ultimate frisbee
03:27 <luke-jr> #rating |x| flex
03:27 <armabot> luke-jr: |x|_flex is 100th with a rating of 1543-1607 (from 1150-1850)
03:27 <flex> was exactly the same yesterday luke
03:27 <luke-jr> hint: if it's down, you can't use #rating
03:27 <flex> and no sticky what's the difference with normal frisbee and ultimate frisbee lol
03:28 <StickyNoob> ok so you havent played then
03:28 <flex> so my rating has not changed.. even 1 digit.. what does that mean
03:28 <ct|kyle> ultimate frisbee is gay
03:28 <flex> wth is ultimate frisbee...
03:28 <ct|kyle> it is like american football with a frisbee
03:29 <luke-jr> #last --with "|x|_flex is" --nolimit
03:29 <armabot> luke-jr: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 50000 messages.
03:29 <ct|kyle> but you can only take 3 steps when you have the frisbee
03:29 <luke-jr> #last --with |x|_flex --nolimit
03:29 <luke-jr> blind bot
03:29 <armabot> luke-jr: [03:34:26] <luke-jr> #last --with "|x|_flex is" --nolimit, [03:26:20] <flex> #rating |x|_flex, [23:22:21] <flex> #rating |x|_flex, [00:08:50] <flex> #rating |x|_flex, and [22:26:17] <flex0> #rating |x|_flex
03:29 <luke-jr> can't see himself?
03:29 <luke-jr> wtf
03:30 <StickyNoob> yeah american football is basicaly rugby for people who are wimps and cant take a hit and are unfit so cant play for more than 20sec before stopping the game
03:30 <flex> #rating |x| flex
03:30 <armabot> flex: |x|_flex is 101st with a rating of 1543-1607 (from 1150-1850)
03:30 <flex> lol
03:30 <flex> oh fantastic :p
03:30 <luke-jr> 23:17 <armabot> flex: |x|_flex is 100th with a rating of 1467-1607 (from 1150-1850)
03:31 <luke-jr> looks like it changed by 4 on the lower end
03:31 <flex> the lower end?
03:32 <luke-jr> 1467 to 1543
03:32 <luke-jr> actually, that's like 80 change
03:33 <luke-jr> #rating flex
03:33 <luke-jr> #rating |x| flex
03:33 <armabot> luke-jr: flex is 104th with a rating of 1541-1608 (from 1543-1607)
03:33 <armabot> luke-jr: |x|_flex is 104th with a rating of 1541-1608 (from 1543-1607)
03:33 <flex> #aka flex
03:33 <armabot> flex: ¿9186 |x|_flex lizguy flexx lizflex flex
03:33 <StickyNoob> #aka |x|_sticky
03:33 <armabot> StickyNoob: ¿1070 |x|_sticky |x|org |x|86
03:33 <flex> 86 huh :p
03:34 <StickyNoob> yeah x86
03:34 <flex> sticky here's a hit: make an instant with the proper |x| tag that way you can switch around the tag ingame
03:34 <flex> without editing the file every hour
03:35 <luke-jr> #rating |x| sticky
03:35 <armabot> luke-jr: |x|_sticky is 364th with a rating of 1395-1526 (from 1395-1525)
03:35 <flex>     INSTANT_CHAT_STRING_1_12 /console player_1 ¦×¦ flex
03:35 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
03:35 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 224th with a rating of 1464-1564 (from 1465-1562)
03:35 <flex> that sticky
03:35 <luke-jr> StickyNoob: pwnt?
03:35 <flex> f12 key to name yourself flex :D
03:36 <luke-jr> flex: you want him to screw up your rating :D
03:36 <StickyNoob> not bad idea
03:36 <flex> yeah luke, so i can pretend i pwn and it was sticky who lowered my rating :p
03:37 <StickyNoob> half the standard linux editors seem to screw up the x tag tho, emacs was the only one i found that worked
03:37 <flex> yeah Sticky, not a bad idea when you cba changing your config file every hourish
03:38 <flex> big question: Microhoo! or Yacrosoft?
03:38 <luke-jr> StickyNoob: define 'standard'
03:38 <flex> luke-jr, common? popular?
03:38 <luke-jr> :þ
03:38 <flex> :*
03:38 <luke-jr> none of the common ones do, pretty sure
03:39 <StickyNoob> luke-jr: vi,vim,nano
03:39 <luke-jr> I can believe nano might
03:39 <luke-jr> not vi
03:39 <StickyNoob> kate
03:39 <StickyNoob> kwrite
03:39 <luke-jr> I can edit binaries with vi
03:39 <luke-jr> kwrite handles unicode fine
03:39 <flex> notepad ftw
03:39 <StickyNoob> kate is notepad on crack
03:40 <StickyNoob> kate is realy something else
03:40 <flex> if notepad had lines and bit more tweaking things for preference it would be decent
03:41 <StickyNoob> thats wordpad
03:41 <flex> wordpad don't have lines
03:42 <StickyNoob> ahh kde now runs on windows, get it and a copy of kate
03:43 <luke-jr> lines?
03:43 <StickyNoob> line numbers
03:43 <luke-jr> StickyNoob: at least in WINE, Konq and Kate don't work
03:43 <luke-jr> Kate has line #s
03:44 <StickyNoob> why would you run kate in wine?
03:46 <luke-jr> ☺
03:46  * luke-jr needs to buy spreadkde.org or something
03:46 <luke-jr> anyone wanna join me? :þ
03:46 <StickyNoob> you a kde fan boy?
03:46 <flex> he's a cocksucker too
03:47 <StickyNoob> i didnt realise he was an alter boy
03:47 <flex> lol
03:47 <StickyNoob> naa seriously kde is really good
03:48 <StickyNoob> kde4 is a bit shakey atm but will probably pan out pretty good
03:49 <flex> omg omg itv3 teleshopping is on sticky
03:49 <luke-jr> Konq4 is great!
03:49 <luke-jr> death to FireFox!
03:49 <ct|kyle> I'll have to try 4
03:49 <StickyNoob> dolphin is terrible
03:50 <luke-jr> ct|kyle: skip 4.0.0 tho
03:50 <ct|kyle> I really don't like ff3
03:50 <luke-jr> 4.0.0 has a nasty bugs
03:50 <luke-jr> 4.0.1 ftw
03:50 <ct|kyle> ok I'll try it sometime
03:50 <luke-jr> should be out within a week
03:50 <StickyNoob> i have no idea why they chose to put dolphin as default
03:50 <luke-jr> I don't know what dolphin is supposed to be
03:50 <luke-jr> the description sounds like konq
03:51 <StickyNoob> i think its to rival all of windows auto preview and brwoser integration stuff
03:51 <luke-jr> ⁇
03:52 <StickyNoob> the main diff to konq is that a pannel will automaticaly show extended information about the file
03:54 <StickyNoob> it however does some anoying things, like dirs in the /media dir that are not mounted wont be shown
03:54 <StickyNoob> which screws all my automount points
03:55 <flex> sticky you want my ss's of the ladle to keep or whatever
03:55 <StickyNoob> naa im fine
03:58 <flex> does constipation lead to bad sight?
04:15 <flex> not that i have constipation..
04:15 <flex> lol
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08:08 <luke-jr> plox
08:14 <MrBougo> amen
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11:15 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: your stats server is down
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12:14 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: you said that map size in map settings doesn't get loaded the first time - why?
12:16 <pippijn> zmanuel: is there any technical limitation for this?
12:22 <pippijn> luke-jr: where is your universal ladder site?
12:22 <pippijn> luke-jr: I want to make a link to it on my website
12:48 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: the server parses the map at about the same time as the client
12:49 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: but the client doesn't care about the <Settings> tag in maps (otherwise you could change all kinds of stuff like instant chats)
12:49 <pippijn> oh..
12:49 <wrtlprnft> the server will parse the setting and then send it to the clients
12:49 <wrtlprnft> but by the time they get it the client already parsed the map
12:53 -!- eddiefan1astic is now known as eddiefantastic
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12:56 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/59bda6278af6c98488c974109dbfcd6e.txt
12:56 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: http://armagetronad.xinutec.org/hiscores.html
12:57 <wrtlprnft> guess i'm supposed to ignore the first one?
12:57 <pippijn> no
12:58 <pippijn> the first one is the sourcecode for the second one's "model" part of MVC
12:58 <pippijn> the model part does contain some logic..
12:58 <pippijn> but one strftime doesn't hurt too much ;-)
13:02 <wrtlprnft> w
13:02 <wrtlprnft> how is the score computed?
13:02 <pippijn> I parse the ladderlog every 10 minutes and update a database with the new information
13:02 <pippijn> then I empty the ladderlog
13:02 <pippijn> it's incremental
13:03 <pippijn> if I lose the database, all scores are 0
13:06 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: so where is that website of luke-jr's?
13:06 <wrtlprnft> ?
13:07 <eddiefantastic> pippijn: how does it compute the score?
13:07 <pippijn> I want to link to his universal ladder thing
13:07 <wrtlprnft> sec
13:07 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: 1+1?
13:07 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: I don't understand your question
13:07 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: scores are added up and stored in a db
13:08 <eddiefantastic> oh, ok. So it's just how many points you have scored?
13:08 <wrtlprnft> http://ratings.armagetronad.net/
13:08 <pippijn> yes
13:08 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: thanks
13:08  * wrtlprnft wonders why luke-jr always talks in the plural
13:08 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: what would be better?
13:09 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: it's quite normal
13:09 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: even if you are the only person on a team, it is a team
13:09 <pippijn> if someone entered the team, you would have to change all "I" to "we"
13:09 <eddiefantastic> pippijn: http://crazy-tronners.com/ladders_new.php ?
13:10 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: ah
13:12 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: parsing ladderlog and scorelog?
13:12 <wrtlprnft> parsing edlog ;)
13:12 <pippijn> edlog?
13:12 <eddiefantastic> wrtlprnft: I'm sure you can view ratings on a server basis also
13:12 <wrtlprnft> on luke-jr's thing?
13:13 <wrtlprnft> yeah, you can
13:13 <eddiefantastic> yeah
13:13 <wrtlprnft> http://ratings.armagetronad.net/?system=cafe
13:13 <eddiefantastic> I misunderstood the luke-jr taliking in plural comment then
13:13 <eddiefantastic> *talking
13:13  * wrtlprnft is confused now.
13:14 <wrtlprnft> connect: Connection refused at sendstats.pl line 39.
13:14 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: restart your stats server thing so it stops spamming my screen session x_X
13:15 <wrtlprnft> i don't care if it's ~5AM at your place
13:15 <eddiefantastic> :) When you said: "wrtlprnft wonders why luke-jr always talks in the plural" I thought you were referring to his ratings
13:15 <wrtlprnft> oh
13:16 <wrtlprnft> i was referring to NOTICE: A bug was discovered in __OUR__ implementation of the Glicko2 rating algorithm. As a result, __WE__ have fixed the bug and RESET the ratings of all players. Sorry for the inconvenience.
13:16 <pippijn> plus
13:16 <eddiefantastic> and the stats only rely on edlog for the who's playing section and the match history
13:16 <pippijn> if you write in plural, people can't blame a single person
13:16 <pippijn> "I reset your scores, come and beat me up"
13:17 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
13:17 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: The ideas page allows users to tell us what they would like to see changed on either the website or the game. Feature requests may also go here.
13:17 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I use plural form, as well
13:17 <wrtlprnft> if there was a RSS feed i'd read it, too
13:18 <pippijn> rss feed of what?
13:18 <wrtlprnft> of the ideas
13:18 <pippijn> nobody writes any ideas
13:18 <eddiefantastic> pippijn: what is your server called?
13:18 <wrtlprnft> how busy is the server?
13:18 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: not very busy
13:18 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/6f5d417a3f5912cb461665c6f481910f.txt
13:19 <pippijn> eddiefantastic: xinutec
13:19 <wrtlprnft> you need a somewhat popular server to gather ideas ;-)
13:19 <pippijn> yes
13:19 <pippijn> mine is very young
13:19 <pippijn> by the way, how do you get server score?
13:19 <wrtlprnft> ?
13:19 <pippijn> mine started at 0, now it's -7
13:20 <wrtlprnft> it's got at least the ping and number of players factored into it
13:20 <pippijn> some are around 200
13:20 <pippijn> ah
13:21 <pippijn> I guess having a server in germany doesn't help
13:22 <pippijn> ping fluctuates between 28 and 140
13:22 <wrtlprnft> the score formula appears to be in nServerInfo::CalcScore()
13:22 <pippijn> ah
13:22 <wrtlprnft> wtf
13:22 <pippijn> hm?
13:23 <wrtlprnft> more recent versions get a higher score
13:23 <pippijn> really? uh..
13:23 <wrtlprnft>  score -= fabsf( this->Version().Max() - sn_MyVersion().Max() ) * 10;
13:23 <wrtlprnft> actually, that's wrong
13:23 <pippijn> -=
13:23 <pippijn> they get lower score
13:23 <wrtlprnft> versions closely matching your own get a higher score
13:23 <wrtlprnft> i didn't see the fabsf
13:23 <pippijn> oh, yes
13:24 <wrtlprnft> apparently the code things 4–5 users are perfect for a server
13:24 <wrtlprnft> *thinks
13:27 <wrtlprnft> probably the server was empty (which leads to a score of 100-100) and it had slightly more than .1 seconds response time when it was rated -7
13:28 <pippijn> maxusers doesn't matter?
13:29 <duudii> hitting the plus key on the numpad adds to the server score also?
13:29 <pippijn> duudii: only locally, doesn't it?
13:29 <duudii> don't know if it shows up globally...
13:29 <duudii> maybe..
13:29 <wrtlprnft> duudii: yeah, of course, but that's local
13:29 <duudii> ok, heh
13:32 <pippijn> wow..
13:32 <pippijn> having 4 players gives you 400 score right away
13:32 <pippijn> that's sick
13:33 <pippijn> 392 with 126 ping plus 4 players
13:33 -!- Mixnetwork [n=chatzill@] has joined #armagetron
13:35 <pippijn> hi Mixnetwork
13:36 <pippijn> your server is called Forumula 1
13:36 <Mixnetwork> hi
13:36 -!- AngryOverlord [n=Stewie-a@cpe-66-27-71-55.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:36 <Mixnetwork> yes
13:36 <pippijn> it's actually Formula 1
13:36 <Mixnetwork> one of them#
13:36 <Mixnetwork> oops
13:36 <Mixnetwork> thx
13:44 <pippijn> okay
13:45 <pippijn> the score algorithm is rather simplistic
13:50 -!- eboettcher [n=f00__@pdpc/supporter/student/box1209] has joined #armagetron
13:51  * eboettcher gives a sleeping tramshed a cookie and disappears
14:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft:     int ToInt( size_type pos = 0 ) const;           //!< Returns the string converted to an integer.
14:04 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: I thought it would make me coffee :-(
14:05 <pippijn> I should read more documentation
14:12 <flex> not a lot of people know about lukes rating board yet, i think?
14:13 <flex> but i guess the power of the system is in long term..
14:21 -!- deja_vu [n=deja_vu@HSI-KBW-085-216-060-101.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #armagetron
15:42 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: well, now you know
15:43 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: is there something that prevents changing the behaviour of this map settings thing?
15:43 <pippijn> anything
15:51 <wrtlprnft> ?
15:51 <pippijn> well
15:52 <pippijn> having map-specific settings inside maps makes sense
15:52 <pippijn> and map_size is a map-specific setting
15:52 <wrtlprnft> no.
15:52 <P4> you mean size_factor
15:52 <pippijn> size_factor, yes
15:52 <wrtlprnft> if you really want to force the map to have a specific size you can physically scale it
15:53 <wrtlprnft> putting settings into maps only takes away their flexibility because you can't override them
15:53 <pippijn> then that needs changing as well
15:53 <pippijn> an override.cfg or something
15:53 <wrtlprnft> FORTRESS_MAX_PER_TEAM is a perfect candidate for a map specific setting
15:54 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: it's not that easy
15:54 <pippijn> why not?
15:54 <wrtlprnft> the settings in the map file are treated the same way as if they were entered on the console
15:55 <wrtlprnft> but the map gets parsed pretty much after everything else
15:55 <pippijn> why?
15:55 <pippijn> why so late?
15:55 <wrtlprnft> needs to be after everytime.cfg
16:32 -!- flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/savas] has quit ["bye"]
16:43 <zmanuel> We could, of course, parse the map in two phases, one for the settings, the second for the geometry.
16:43 <zmanuel> But I'd prefer it if settings would get removed from maps in the long run.
16:43 -!- zmanuel is now known as z-man
16:44 <z-man> Instead of settings in maps, there should be a different resource type with settings that just references a map.
16:44 <z-man> and since referencing a map is done via the setting map_file, we're at configuration resources again :)
16:45  * pippijn would be in favour of xml configs
16:45 <z-man> xml is nice, but for most cases, plain "key value" pairs are easier for the poor humans who edit the files.
16:55 <wrtlprnft> actually, we already have RINCLUDE now
17:14 <wrtlprnft> z-man: is it sort of safe to enable authentication on a server? will it harm anything?
17:14 <z-man> It will disable the old ADMIN_PASS login.
17:14 <wrtlprnft> i can live with that :-)
17:14 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: your stats thing is still down.
17:15 <z-man> Other than that, no, no bad side effects are know.
17:16 <wrtlprnft> does the @forums work by default or do you have to tell it about that alias somehow?
17:17 <z-man> I'll be merging the auth branch back into 0.2.8 very soonish, after fixing the explosion problem
17:17 <wrtlprnft> or does it assume that anything w/o a TLD is a subdomain of armagetronad.net?
17:17 <z-man> you have to set "GLOBAL_ID 1"
17:17 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
17:17 <z-man> Our default policy is "no unauthorized connection to external servers" :)
17:17 <wrtlprnft> auth branch? I thought it was an #ifdef “branch”
17:18 <z-man> It's both.
17:18 <z-man> After the merge, it'll be only an #ifdef branch.
17:18 <wrtlprnft> does the SVN branch contain any important stuff?
17:19 <z-man> Important? Apart from authentication?
17:19 <z-man> The team management is also there, because that's usually only useful with authentication.
17:19 <wrtlprnft> what's the current #ifdef branch, then?
17:20 <z-man> It's the old KRAWALL code and incomplete.
17:21 <z-man> Activating it has no good effect at all :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> ouch.
17:21 <z-man> You are forced to log in before you play, but login means enter a username and password == username :)
17:21 <wrtlprnft> helpful.
17:28 <wrtlprnft> hmm, i'm thinking about a way to encourage people to armathenticate…
17:28 <wrtlprnft> maybe only allow armathenticated people to shuffle up
17:30 <z-man> Yep, good idea.
17:31 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7721 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Better virtual RemoveFromGame logic for eGameObjects, derived classes now don't have to worry about things like removing themselves from the lists or clearing the current grid face (forgetting that has ugly effects).
17:31 <z-man> Ok, I'll now merge the pending changes from 0.2.8 to the trunk, then merge 0.2.8-auth to 0.2.8, then merge to the trunk again.
17:31 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
17:31  * wrtlprnft deletes his 0.2.8-auth working copy again
17:31 <z-man> conflict hell time :)
17:32 <z-man> you should be able to safely get your local changes to 0.2.8 with svn switch.
17:32 <z-man> where "safely" means with just as many conflicts as I'll get now :)
17:32 <wrtlprnft> i don't have any local changes
17:33 <z-man> I thought you were going to make some.
17:33 <wrtlprnft> what's going on with that new config system thing, by the way
17:33 <wrtlprnft> well, if you're merging right now i'll wait with that
17:34 <z-man> It'll be some minutes, the first merge to the trunk is going to take a while.
17:34 <z-man> nothing about a new config system, so far, we just have ramblings.
17:35 <wrtlprnft> ah, ok
17:37  * wrtlprnft is thinking that we could replace the SILENCE/VOICE stuff by access levels > 20
17:39 <z-man> That could also remove the players from the game.
17:39 <Mixnetwork> hi all, good evening :D
17:55 <wrtlprnft> am i misunderstanding something here or does the server prohibit unarmathenticated players to play as soon as four armathenticated players are online?
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7722 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (16 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7702 to 7721:
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7721 | z-man | 2008-02-04 17:36:23 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad:  Better virtual RemoveFromGame logic for eGameObjects, derived classes now don't have to worry about things like removing themselves from the lists or clearing the current grid face (forgetting that has ugly effects).
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:55 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7713 | z-man | 2008-01-31 23:12:57 +0100 (Thu, 31 Jan 2008) | 2 lines
17:58 <z-man> wrtlprnft: not in default setttings; in default settings, everyone is always allowed to play.
17:58 -!- xfroggy_ [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
17:59 -!- xfroggy [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:59 <wrtlprnft>  582 // that many high level players are reuqired to drag the access level up
17:59 <wrtlprnft>  583 static int se_playAccessLevelSliders = 4;
17:59 <z-man> Only if you raise the sliding minimal access level, then it will behave as you describe.
17:59 <wrtlprnft> that confuset me
17:59 <wrtlprnft> *confused
17:59 <z-man> yes, but there is an upper limit.
17:59 <wrtlprnft>  578 // minimal sliding access level to play (slides up as soon as enoughpeople of higher access level get authenticated )
17:59 <wrtlprnft> so that's in fact the maximal access level?
18:00 <wrtlprnft> the wording in the comments is sort of confusing
18:00 <z-man> yeah, sorry, I'll rework it
18:00 <z-man> the gist is this:
18:00 <z-man> if your level is higher than access_level_play_sliding, you can always play.
18:01 <z-man> if your access level is lower than access_level_play, you can never play.
18:01 <z-man> if it is in between, then you can play as long as not at least ACCESS_LEVEL_PLAY_SLIDERS players of higher level than you are present.
18:02 <wrtlprnft>  626             // if enough players are above the current level, increase it
18:02 <wrtlprnft>  627             newAccessLevel --;
18:02 <wrtlprnft> makes me wonder about my sanity ;)
18:02 <z-man> It's a bit of a silly idea, and I would not object to remove it again
18:02 <z-man> the team management system is more flexible and easier to explain :)
18:03 <wrtlprnft> might make sense for tournament servers
18:04 <wrtlprnft> let newbies play, but as soon as it gets populated by team captains and their team members gently push them away to DDL
18:04 <z-man> Yeah, that was the idea. But getiing teams locked and inviting the right players works better.
18:04 <z-man> Especially, it won't trigger the tournament mode on accident, just because the right number of players authenticates.
18:05  * z-man is almost done with merging
18:05 <wrtlprnft> that's the problem i'm having with it
18:05  * wrtlprnft stfu to get the merge done asap
18:07 <z-man> Note: i have not yet tested whether --enable-armathentication works in the merge :)
18:07 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #armagetron
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7723 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (46 files in 10 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8-auth from revision 7558 to 7721:
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7718 | z-man | 2008-02-04 01:42:47 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 3 lines
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  Fixed epsy's eavesdropping bug where a moderator that is invited, but not member of a team could read /team messages.
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  When looking for a player name, the input name is now filtered as well.
18:08 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
18:10 <z-man> Oh god, now to the trunk.
18:10 <epsy> « When looking for a player name, the input name is now filtered as well. »
18:11 <epsy> what does that mean? :P
18:11 <wrtlprnft> if you do /msg SoMeNiCk
18:11 <epsy> oh ok
18:12 <wrtlprnft> previously it would check for a player whose filtered name was SoMeNiCk, which can't exist
18:12 <z-man> exactly.
18:12 <wrtlprnft> now it looks for a somenick player
18:12 <wrtlprnft> IIRC i did that change :)
18:12 <z-man> I probably destroyed it in between :)
18:13  * z-man refactored that part of the code so all commands looking up players use the same function.
18:13 <wrtlprnft> ah, sweet
18:13 <wrtlprnft> i only did it for /msg back then
18:15 <z-man> Let's count Cs.
18:15 <z-man> So far, 1 of 6.
18:16 <wrtlprnft> in what?
18:16 <z-man> 4 of 9 :(
18:16 <wrtlprnft> 0.2.8→trunk?
18:16 <z-man> Yep.
18:17 <wrtlprnft> i dunno, but I'd love if we rolled the trunk back to before the zonesv2 merge
18:17 <wrtlprnft> save ph's work in a new branch first, of course
18:20 <z-man> We should do that to just the affected files, and just move them away inside the project.
18:20  * z-man likes #ifdef branches if they're not too complicated.
18:20 <z-man> Or get the v2 zones new network IDs and let the code coexist.
18:21 <z-man> 19 Cs. hooray!
18:21  * wrtlprnft doesn't think there's any non-zonev2 related changes in the trunk since the zones merge
18:22 <z-man> Well, for one, there's all the merges from 0.2.8
18:22 <wrtlprnft> yeah, of course
18:29 -!- xfroggy_ [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:30 -!- xfroggy_ [n=xfroggy@unaffiliated/xfroggy] has joined #armagetron
18:35 -!- ohka|quad [n=quad@82-47-202-172.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
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18:44 -!- xfroggy_ is now known as xfroggy
18:58 <wrtlprnft> the armathication stuff appears to work like a charm :)
19:03 <z-man> good to hear, I did not really test the merge result for it.
19:04 <wrtlprnft> it'll be on café with the next restart
19:04 <Mixnetwork> z-man----> did you read the topic?
19:05 <z-man> Which topic? The one where you say it works?
19:05 <wrtlprnft> should i replace TEAM_ALLOW_SHUFFLE_UP by an ACCESS_LEVEL_SHUFFLE_UP (which would default to teammember or something) if compiling with armathication?
19:05 <Mixnetwork> yepp
19:05 <Mixnetwork> it did not work again :(
19:06 -!- drunkardivan [n=john@cpe-24-243-50-140.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
19:07 <z-man> wrtlprnft: feel free to do that.
19:08 <wrtlprnft> KRAWALL_SERVER is the right macro, right?
19:09 <z-man> yes.
19:09 <wrtlprnft> ok
19:14 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: ⁇?
19:14 <z-man> stop sending blank characters, luke!
19:16 <luke-jr> z-man: not my fault your IRC client is broken ☺
19:17 <z-man> not my fault if your definition of broken is broken.
19:17 <Mixnetwork> lol
19:17 <Mixnetwork> z-man--> you are german?
19:17 <z-man> yes
19:17 <Mixnetwork> or live the
19:17 <Mixnetwork> ah
19:17 <Mixnetwork> ok
19:17 <Mixnetwork> Köln
19:17 <Mixnetwork> lol
19:18 <Mixnetwork> i am from Maastricht
19:18 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: next time try calling the phone
19:20 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
19:20 <armabot> luke-jr: timed out
19:21 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
19:22 <luke-jr> still busy
19:22 <luke-jr> :o
19:22 <armabot> luke-jr: timed out
19:26 -!- drunkardivan [n=john@cpe-24-243-50-140.satx.res.rr.com] has left #armagetron ["Konversation terminated!"]
19:28 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: err, i have no clue how much that would cost
19:28 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: nothing if you use SIP or IAX2
19:28 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
19:29 <wrtlprnft> feel free to throw more acronyms at me of whose existence i wasn't even aware
19:29 <luke-jr> ok
19:29 <luke-jr> H323
19:30 <z-man> you mean TLA?
19:35 <luke-jr> TLA?
19:35 <wrtlprnft> someone should have told me about the existence of settings_authenthication.cfg
19:35 <luke-jr> I didn't know we were considering that
19:36 <wrtlprnft> those comments are great
19:36 <z-man> luke-jr: considering what?
19:36 <luke-jr> TLA
19:36 <z-man> You always have to consider TLA.
19:37 <wrtlprnft> wtf is tla?
19:37 <z-man> Most technologies are based on it.
19:39 <wrtlprnft> not just technlologies, even WTF is based on TLA
19:39 <luke-jr> TLA = GNU Arch
19:40 <wrtlprnft> GNU is based on TLA, you're right.
19:40 -!- flea [n=blia@] has joined #armagetron
19:40 <pippijn> wow
19:40 <pippijn> 19:46 < armagetron> C3PO(-4), ��miss-th(-4), Ghost(3), |JEN| |TM|(1), Vanqy(3), c4pu(4), twee(5), <<>>23<<>>(19)
19:40 <pippijn> loads of users
19:40 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
19:42 <pippijn> <3 ;-)
19:42 <pippijn> it's kind of nice to have people playing on your server
19:43 <flea> it is indeed nice to have ppl playing on 'your' server lol
19:43 <luke-jr> #ss pippijn
19:43 <armabot> luke-jr: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “pippijn” at the moment, sorry.
19:43 <pippijn> #ss xinutec
19:43 <armabot> pippijn: Xinutec: PLAYERS (8): <<>>23<<>> (24), Ghost (24), c4pu (13), twee (12), >> U~ << (0), |JEN| |TM| (0), Vanqy (-1), C3PO (-6)
19:44 <luke-jr> that is indeed one thing that amazes me sometimes
19:44 <pippijn> what amazes you?
19:44 <luke-jr> even with so many servers empty, a new one has a chance
19:44 <pippijn> I have a good server :-)
19:44 <pippijn> low latency
19:44 <pippijn> that may help
19:45 <luke-jr> so do the ones I host ☺
19:45 <luke-jr> but yeah, that might be why
19:45 <pippijn> do you know matrix mult?
19:45 <wrtlprnft> why?
19:45 <luke-jr> especially if you're in Europe-- I only host about 3 there
19:45 <pippijn> I'm wondering if it's possible to multiply a 2x3 matrix with a 2x2 one
19:46 <pippijn> like this:
19:46 <pippijn> / 1 4 \
19:46 <pippijn> | 2 5 | · / 1 2 \
19:46 <pippijn> \ 3 6 /   \ 3 4 /
19:46 <wrtlprnft> no.
19:47 <pippijn> thanks
19:47 <wrtlprnft> actually, wait.
19:47 <pippijn> german wikipedia says it is
19:47 <pippijn> but I don't understand how it's done
19:47 <wrtlprnft> i only really know how to multiply square matrices
19:47 <pippijn> I know how to multiply NxN with NxN matrices
19:48 <pippijn> and how to mult MxN with NxM matrices
19:48 <pippijn> but NxM with NxN matrices or any other weird combination, I don't know
19:49 <wrtlprnft> well, a 3×3 matrix multiplied with a 3×1 “matrix” makes sense, too
19:50 <pippijn> yes
19:50 <pippijn> but 1×3?
19:53 <wrtlprnft> maybe the other way
19:53 <wrtlprnft> a row vector times a matrix
19:55 <pippijn>  / 1 4 \
19:55 <pippijn>  | 2 5 | · / 1 2 4 5 4 4 \
19:55 <pippijn>  \ 3 6 /   \ 3 4 5 5 2 4 /
19:55 <pippijn> how does this work?
19:55 <pippijn> ah yeah
19:55 <pippijn> I know
19:56 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
19:58 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7724 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): replaced TEAM_ALLOW_SHUFFLE_UP by ACCESSL_LEVEL_SHUFFLE_UP if armathication is enabled
19:59 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7725 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/language/english_base.txt: sorry, forgot a language string
20:02 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
20:04 <armabot> armagetronad: wrtlprnft * r7726 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/engine/ePlayer.cpp: something went wrong when i tried to compile it, added a missing _
20:18 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: determinants can only be derived from NxN matrices, right?
20:20 <wrtlprnft> yeah
20:20 <pippijn> right
20:20 <wrtlprnft> i'm not an expert, though
20:20 <pippijn> it has to be square
20:20  * wrtlprnft is just a normal grade 13 student
20:21 <pippijn> I'm a stupid college student in the first semester who hasn't paid attention in maths
20:21 <wrtlprnft> what's your subject?
20:22 <pippijn> computer science
20:22 <wrtlprnft> that's what i'm gonna do, too
20:22 <pippijn> nice :-)
20:22 <wrtlprnft> big surprise.
20:22 <pippijn> a question..
20:23 <pippijn> if you have a 4x4 matrix, you have to calculate the determinant of several 3x3 matrixes first
20:23 <pippijn> and for 3x3 matrices, you can do the same
20:23 <pippijn> what is the theorem called that says this?
20:23 <pippijn> laplace?
20:24 <wrtlprnft> gaussian elimination?
20:24 <wrtlprnft> no, that's the other method
20:24 <wrtlprnft> cofactor expansion?
20:25 <wrtlprnft> which is the same as laplace expansion
20:25 <pippijn> sarrus rule
20:25 <pippijn> that's for the determinant
20:26 <pippijn> sarrus is just for up to 3x3
20:26 <pippijn> laplace is for the rest
20:29 <pippijn> 20:34 < armagetron> <Axel> 0xffooooh0xooffaai
20:29 <epsy> xfroggy, you there
20:29 <epsy> ?
20:29 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: ?
20:29 <pippijn> does armagetron expand o to 0?
20:29 <pippijn> this is supposed to be "hi" in colours
20:29 <wrtlprnft> no.
20:29 <pippijn> good
20:29 <wrtlprnft> that's probably just someone being too stupid to copy a color code
20:29 <wrtlprnft> seen that many time
20:29 <wrtlprnft> s
20:30 <pippijn> good :-)
20:30 <wrtlprnft> in the mangled player names found in ladderlog.txt and /players, '0's are converted to 'o's, after stripping color codes.
20:31 <pippijn> ah
20:32 <epsy> #ping
20:32 <armabot> pong
20:32 <epsy> hm
20:34 <pippijn> #ss xinutec
20:34 <armabot> pippijn: Xinutec: PLAYERS (5): Axel (29), sanette (18), Sieg der SU!!!! (14), Glenn (11), maito (0)
20:34 <pippijn> does anyone here know how much bandwidth a server uses per user?
20:35 <wrtlprnft> there's a number on the wiki somewhere
20:35 <wrtlprnft> it depends on the density of turns and the number of fortress zones, though
20:35 <wrtlprnft> and it doesn't grow in a linear fashion
20:36 <pippijn> I would like to know how much it takes for 8 players
20:36 <pippijn> more than that, I will unlikely ever have
20:36 <pippijn> and surely not for a long time
20:36 <pippijn> my server is quiet for most of the time
20:36 <pippijn> so I think 1 constant user would be a lot compared to my usage
20:37 <pippijn> okay
20:37 <pippijn> it's around 13-20KiB/sec for 5 players
20:37 <pippijn> #ss xinutec
20:37 <armabot> pippijn: Xinutec: PLAYERS (7): Axel (49), sanette (35), Glenn (5), maito (2), -Cool_Dad- (0), Vita !!!SB!!! (0), Sieg der SU!!!! (-1)
20:38 <pippijn> oh.. 7
20:38 <pippijn> it fluctuates a lot indeed
20:38 <wrtlprnft> in case you care: my server had 26 GB traffic in january, most of it is probably cause by arma
20:39 <pippijn> ah okay
20:39 <pippijn> my contract can take 300GiB per month
20:39 <pippijn> after that I have to pay more
20:39 <pippijn> I currently don't use much of it
20:39 <wrtlprnft> i never exeeded that
20:39 <pippijn> I won't either, probably
20:40 <pippijn> I don't serve files
20:40 <wrtlprnft> the only times i get any noteworthy traffic is if i download some torrent onto my server
20:41 <wrtlprnft> for the fun of watching it reach several mb/sec
20:41 <wrtlprnft> (legal torrents, of course)
20:41 <pippijn> of course
20:41 <pippijn> it would be a bad idea to do anything illegal on my server :-)
20:41 <wrtlprnft> on mine, too
20:41 <pippijn> I can't lose it
20:41 <pippijn> I depend on it too much
20:42  * luke-jr notes torrents aren't illegal
20:42 <wrtlprnft> not all torrents are illegal
20:42 <pippijn> .torrent files are not
20:42 <wrtlprnft> read what i said, please
20:42 <pippijn> the stuff they point at may be illegally acquired
20:42 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: they are in many countries
20:42 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: not in germany
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7727 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (48 files in 10 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7721 to 7723:
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7723 | z-man | 2008-02-04 18:14:13 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 501 lines
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad:  Merging branch 0.2.8-auth from revision 7558 to 7721:
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:43 <wrtlprnft> hosting them apparently is
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7718 | z-man | 2008-02-04 01:42:47 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 3 lines
20:43 <pippijn> it is?
20:43 <pippijn> that's stupid
20:43 <pippijn> torrent was not made for illegal activities
20:43 <wrtlprnft> nonono
20:43 <pippijn> hosting illegal torrents is illegal?
20:43 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7728 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/network/ (4 files): Moved nAuthentification back to nAuthentication.
20:43 <wrtlprnft> of course it's legal to host a torrent pointing to some linux cd image
20:43 <pippijn> okay, good
20:44 <wrtlprnft> but it's illegal to host a torrent pointing to the sourcecode of internet explorer
20:44 <wrtlprnft> as if anyone really wanted to see that without getting paid for it
20:44 <pippijn> heh :-)
20:48 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: how do you ban someone?
20:48 <wrtlprnft>  /admin BAN?
20:49 <pippijn> argument?
20:49 <pippijn> nick?
20:49 <wrtlprnft> i'd use /players
20:49 <wrtlprnft> and the id that appears there
20:49 <pippijn> oka
20:49 <pippijn> y
20:49 <wrtlprnft> BAN <player id> <time in minutes> <reason>
20:51 <pippijn> he left
20:51 <wrtlprnft> haha
20:51 <wrtlprnft> if you really want to get rid of him/her use the logs and BAN_IP
20:52 <pippijn> I don't
20:52 <pippijn> I was just getting annoyed
20:52 <pippijn> http://pip.one09.net/files/txt/a4c94699f0d5455b8124d3af7aca3028.txt <- because of that
20:53 <wrtlprnft> lol, that wasn't even me
20:53 <pippijn> why would I get annoyed at you?
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7729 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad: Merging branch 0.2.8 from revision 7723 to 7728:
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7726 | wrtlprnft | 2008-02-04 20:10:15 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  something went wrong when i tried to compile it, added a missing _
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:53 <armabot> armagetronad:  r7725 | wrtlprnft | 2008-02-04 20:04:51 +0100 (Mon, 04 Feb 2008) | 2 lines
20:54 <wrtlprnft> i was referring to that script of mine
20:54 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7730 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/src/tron/gGame.cpp: Whoops, another FI gone.
20:54 <pippijn> oh okay
20:54 <wrtlprnft> the one that connects to a server, drops one line of chat and then leaves again
20:54 <wrtlprnft> that could easily do the same thing
20:55 <pippijn> if it were to do that 20 times per minute, I would ban it
20:56 <wrtlprnft> heh
20:56 <pippijn> 21:02 < armagetron> <Axel> 0xffoooot0xooffaay
20:56 <pippijn> I think there is something wrong with something inside my code..
20:56 <pippijn> or yours
20:57 <pippijn> 20:58 -armagetron:#armagetron- * Ax0xooffaael enters the game
20:57 <pippijn> 21:02 -armagetron:#armagetron- axel won the round
20:58 <pippijn> maybe I'm doing something wrong
20:59 <wrtlprnft> tell him to use zeroes
20:59 <z-man> Isn't it so that arma interprets anything not 1..9 or a..f as zero?
21:00 <pippijn> wrtlprnft: it seems to have two different interpretations
21:01 <armabot> armagetronad: z-man * r7731 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Authentification -> Authentication here, too, so nobody laughs at Z-Man ze German.
21:04 <pippijn> z-man: ;-)
21:04 <wrtlprnft> what happened to armathentication?
21:05 <z-man> The compile flag is still called that way, but there's also lots of krawall left in the code, so I left this one file and class at nAuthentication.
21:05 <z-man> We would have to rename the preprocessor macro and all that, and I'm not in the mood :)
21:06 <z-man> If you want to give it a go, knock yourself out.
21:06 <pippijn> I will be in a few months
21:06 <pippijn> right now I'm studying maths for wednesday
21:06 <z-man> good luck, in case we forget tomorrow :)
21:07 <pippijn> thanks :-)
21:08 <wrtlprnft> pippijn: be what?
21:08 <pippijn> in the mood
21:09 <wrtlprnft> oh
21:11 <wrtlprnft> so armathentication isn't the official term anymore? :-(
21:11 <z-man> There is no true official term.
21:12 <z-man> If you want to adapt english.txt, feel free.
21:12 <wrtlprnft> i just feared that you wanted to ban armathentication completely
21:12 <z-man> Nothing has been translated yet (on purpose), so we're free to still mess with it.
21:12 <z-man> nah, I don't mind.
21:12 <z-man> I think it's a bit silly, but don't let that stop you :)
21:13 <wrtlprnft> well, it leads to all sorts of funny words
21:13 <wrtlprnft> armathenticate
21:14 <z-man> And armathority
21:14 <wrtlprnft> lol.
21:15 <wrtlprnft> maybe it's best to leave it in a few select places
21:16 <z-man> Maybe.
21:20 <wrtlprnft> if we want to get the maximum possible confusion effect we should make sure that the terms authentication, authentification, armathication, armathentication and armathentification all appear and no preference is given to either term
21:29 <xfroggy> erm, how login works?
21:29 <xfroggy> keeps saying local user not found O.o
21:30 <K-Yo> you have to log in to forums without cookies first
21:31 <K-Yo> so your ID enters the "new" database for arma's auth
21:31 <xfroggy> without cookies O.o
21:31 <epsy> tell freako to do that..huh
21:33 <K-Yo> xfroggy, last post here: http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=18177&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
21:33 <K-Yo> epsy, ? freako did it already ^o)
21:33 <z-man> Oh, and if your error is "local user not found", you have to log in via "/login forums".
21:34 <xfroggy> nothing happened lol
21:34 <K-Yo> where are you? bugfarm?
21:34 <xfroggy> café
21:37 <xfroggy> ah worked :D
21:39  * luke-jr notes armathentication ties us to the name prefix 'arma' if we ever decide to rename
21:39 -!- AngryOverlord [n=Stewie-a@cpe-66-27-71-55.san.res.rr.com] has joined #armagetron
21:39 <xfroggy> renames to forum login lol
21:39 <wrtlprnft> why, arma isn't the trademarked part, right?
21:40 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: no, but when I brought up adopting ArmaCycles, the opposition said they'd rather have something totally new
21:40 <wrtlprnft> xfroggy: you can rename after the rename
21:40 <xfroggy> ah
21:43 -!- flex [n=savas@host81-156-208-178.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #armagetron
21:45 <K-Yo> wrtlprnft, will the ladder use login some day?
21:45 <wrtlprnft> it already does
21:46 <wrtlprnft> #rating wrtlprnft@forums
21:46 <armabot> wrtlprnft: wrtlprnft@forums is 530th with a rating of 1369-1536 (from 1372-1828)
21:46 <wrtlprnft> although luke-jr's script might be able to get confused by someone named wrtlprnft@forums playing on an old server
21:47 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: that's why z-man is breaking me
21:47 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: change that setting
21:47 <luke-jr> and please let's make the backward compatible default
21:48  * luke-jr stabs z-man >:O
21:48 <wrtlprnft> but 0: isn't any safer
21:48 <luke-jr> yes it is
21:48 <luke-jr> non-auth servers cannot generate usernames with 0 in them
21:49 <wrtlprnft> yes they can
21:49 <wrtlprnft> if they're older than 0.2.8
21:49 <wrtlprnft> in fact i think that 0→o change was only intruduced in or so
21:49 <luke-jr> meh
21:50 <luke-jr> then use ®
21:50 <wrtlprnft> anyways, i changed it
21:50 <wrtlprnft> eek.
21:50 <luke-jr> ?
21:50 <epsy> oh, got it, but still not 100% sure
21:51 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: i'd not worry about the 0, though. has it, and you can just say you don't accept pre- servers in your logs
21:51 <wrtlprnft> by the way, 0.2.7 doesn't do any filtering at all
21:52 <luke-jr> :O
21:52 <epsy> i just need to find out how phpbb does compare passwords
21:52 <wrtlprnft> epsy: doesn't work
21:52 <wrtlprnft> phpbb stores md5sums
21:53 <wrtlprnft> and you can't generate md5(pass+salt) from md5(pass)
21:53 <epsy> i have some idea
21:53 <epsy> let me explain it..
21:54 <wrtlprnft> actually, you can use plain md5sums if you decide not to support old clients
21:54 <epsy> hash arma's hash with phpbb's algorythm and vice versa
21:54 <epsy> hm
21:54 <epsy> how did tank do?
21:54 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: please restart server when changing that setting >_<
21:54 <wrtlprnft> why?
21:55 <luke-jr> it doesn't tell me at all
21:55 <wrtlprnft> epsy: that's why you needed to log out and back in
21:55 <epsy> ?
21:55 <wrtlprnft> so the forums get the original password and can save md5(pass+'\0') in their db
21:56 <epsy> i didn't get that stuff :P
21:56 <armabot> armagetronad: nemostultae * r7732 /armagetronad/branches/0.2.8/armagetronad/MacOS/Armagetron Advanced.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Updated Mac OS X project file after auth branch merge. nAuthentification -> nAuthentication
21:56 <wrtlprnft> luke-jr: that was just a couple of minutes with the changed names
21:56 <luke-jr> the problem was the sudden appearance of 0:*
21:56 <epsy> oh, you mean you set some « oldpass » flag on the DB, get phpBB to compare with the old then generate the new if that flag is on?
21:57  * wrtlprnft isn't doing anything
21:57 <wrtlprnft> but as far as i understand it the forums store the hash they need on each successful login
21:58 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@254.231-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #armagetron
21:58 <epsy> well i'ill go read how phpbb does it
21:58 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #armagetron
22:02 <luke-jr> …
22:02 <luke-jr> so how are non-auth'd names escaped, z-man?
22:03 <wrtlprnft> The log format in ladderlog.txt is picked so that no unauthenticated user can ever appear under the same name as an authenticated user. To achieve that, @ signs are escaped for unauthenticated users. That changes their names relative to the way they appeared in older versions of the server. If you rather want to keep the names of unauthenticated players as they were before, change this to 1:
22:04 <luke-jr> that doesn't say
22:04 <luke-jr> escaped *how*?
22:04 <wrtlprnft> \@
22:05 <wrtlprnft> and %:\ are escaped in the same waa
22:05 <wrtlprnft> *way
22:11  * luke-jr thinks he has another exploit :þ
22:11 <luke-jr> actually, no
22:11 <luke-jr> hexcode catches \n
22:14 <epsy> guru3, you there?
22:17 <epsy> jeez it's totally different
22:18 <luke-jr> …
22:22 <pippijn> there is no log() for mpf_t!?
22:40 <epsy> an user ID with a custom authority would look like this? epsy@xclan.armagetron.co.uk ?
22:40 <epsy> or should i prefix with http:// .
22:40 <epsy> *?
22:41 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: if you want to test, r833+ support an optional first argument 'auth' to handle the new mangling
22:41 <luke-jr> epsy: no schema
22:41 <epsy> ?
22:41 <luke-jr> wrtlprnft: but please be sure not to send old-mangled stuff with it
22:44 <epsy> wrtlprnft, x fort/sumo uses old translation files
22:45 <epsy> and Auth URL xclan.armagetron.co.uk is invalid, illegal characters
22:49 <luke-jr> epsy: ?
22:49 <epsy> nvm, i put a space at the end of it while using /login
22:57 <luke-jr> z-man: wtf does the PROMPT for login get delayed? :\
22:59 <epsy> luke-jr, i get the prompts correctly, it's just that my script must be fucked or smth
23:01 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r7733 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/armaauth.php: HTTP_HOST is more relevant than SERVER_NAME
23:01 <armabot> armagetronad: luke-jr * r7734 /tools/http-auth-server/trunk/armaauth.php: HTTP_HOST is more relevant than SERVER_NAME
23:09 <epsy> hm i must be storing passwords the wrong way
23:10 <z-man> luke-jr: on my servers? because they record.
23:10 <luke-jr> z-man: on non-threaded servers in general
23:10 <z-man> Exactly, and recording and threading don't mix.
23:11 <z-man> Nothing gets delayed for server local accounts.
23:11 <z-man> I could probably cache the data required to trigger the prompt, but delays are inevitable.
23:15 <luke-jr> delays should be validating the login info
23:16 <luke-jr> not prompting for it
23:16 <luke-jr> it doesn't need to make any fetching to prompt
23:17 <z-man> It does.
23:18 <z-man> It needs to communicate with the armathority to fetch the list of supported methods and the parameters for the method.
23:18 <luke-jr> supported methods can vary between user
23:18 <luke-jr> s
23:18 <luke-jr> btw, the code on wrtl's server doesn't work for real domains
23:18 <z-man> no, but between authorities. As I said, that information could be cached in principle.
23:20 <luke-jr> when did we drop the ability to vary methods between users?
23:20 <luke-jr> last I checked, that was an important requirement
23:23 <z-man> orly? nobody ever mentioned that.
23:23 <luke-jr> especially seeing as our primary authority varies in such a way
23:24 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@254.231-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["night"]
23:25 <epsy> phpbb3 encrypts password hashes
23:25 <epsy> screw this
23:26 <epsy> will work on that tomorrow, cya
23:27 <luke-jr> …
23:28 <z-man> luke-jr: and fortress cafe accepted my test@master1.armagetronad.net test identity just fine.
23:28 <ct|kyle> luke-jr: epsy is a little slow on the go
23:29 <luke-jr> #rating luke-jr
23:29 <armabot> luke-jr: luke-jr is 329th with a rating of 1443-1544 (from 1444-1542)
23:29 <luke-jr> z-man: well, it's not working as documented for epsy or I
23:30 <luke-jr> [15:51:19] <epsy> and Auth URL xclan.armagetron.co.uk is invalid, illegal characters
23:30 <luke-jr> z-man: if I use /login or /login dashjr.org, both try to do something with local users
23:30 <epsy> luke-jr, i put a space at the end of it that's why
23:30 <luke-jr> o
23:30 <luke-jr> I didn't
23:31 <epsy> and that was the illegal character
23:33 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 gfduxitgerhyuiovfg<hqiùHMhAU_IGHIUDRLGHUGYgyhugbysgfæÊ€æÊ»þýýûÎÃ]
23:36 <z-man> luke-jr: /login is supposed to trigger login for a local account.
23:36 <luke-jr> …
23:36 <z-man> can't say why dashjr.org doesn't work for you, master1.armagetronad.net works for me, and no, I don't count dots :)
23:37 <flex> epsy, where's the button on the forums that auto marks all topics as read
23:37 <z-man> dashjr.org does not work because it's not up to spec.
23:37 <luke-jr> z-man: just updated it, and it works from a browser
23:38 <luke-jr> not my fault guru3 writes code that only works on his system
23:38 <z-man> The error message I get from arma is 404 not found, so it looks like you put it into the wrog place
23:38 <z-man> for a RTFM junkie, you're dammed lazy when it comes to reading specs yourself.
23:38  * luke-jr oops
23:39 <luke-jr> not my fault guru3 can't use directories :þ
23:40 <luke-jr> z-man: what are you using on master1 btw?
23:40 <z-man> the reference script.
23:41 <luke-jr> where's that?
23:41 <z-man> In armagetronad/batch/
23:49 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has quit ["BETA SUCKS"]
23:53 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-157-191.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
23:59 -!- K-Yo [n=K-Yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron

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