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Log from 2007-09-05:
--- Day changed Wed Sep 05 2007
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04:53 <Lucifer_arma> #luke_jr_work My penis
04:53 <armabot> ♪ My penis is obsolete. ♫
04:55 <GodTodd> #luke_jr_work Catholocism
04:55 <armabot> ♪ Catholocism is obsolete. ♫
04:56 <Lucifer_arma> http://technocrat.net/d/2007/9/4/26262
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05:01 <GodTodd> heh
05:04 <Lucifer_arma> it's an interesting irony that orwell was monitored by mi5
05:06 <GodTodd> yep it is :)
05:06 <GodTodd> and *before* the book
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> probably played a significant role in writing the book
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> he was commenting on english society at the time
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> or so I think, anyway
05:08 <GodTodd> i'm sure
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> so he wasn't some loony then when he wrote it.  surprised?  ;)
05:08 <GodTodd> nope
05:08 <Lucifer_arma> man, I don't know what's scarier anymore.
05:09 <GodTodd> luke-jr:
05:09 <GodTodd> :)
05:09 <Lucifer_arma> it used to be that you could just wave off a black-helicopter tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist as acting like an ass and using very bad reasoning on poor evidence
05:09 <GodTodd> same thing i said...
05:09 <GodTodd> heh
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> but besides this, when the CIA released their "family jewels", it basically amounted to "those whackjob conspiracy theorists have been right all along"
05:10 <GodTodd> yep
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> but they're nutjobs!  THey *are* using bad reasoning on poor evidence to develop really whacked out theories
05:10 <Lucifer_arma> I guess the old adage is still true, even a broken clock is right twice a day
05:10 <GodTodd> yep
05:11 <GodTodd> thing is...it's not *all* the nutjobs that turned out to be right
05:11 <GodTodd> easy to pick out the ones that are/were when using hindsight
05:11 <Lucifer_arma> no, there's a core of individuals that were right, and the nutjobs grabbed onto it to publicise it
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> and that's the problem, because it means all the nutjobs that took it and ran with it, and interlaced it with all their other whacky theories basically discredited the true stuff completely
05:12 <GodTodd> right
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> so what are they saying now that's true, that we need to care about?  Who knows?  It's so embedded in all the whacky stuff...
05:12 <Lucifer_arma> and why are they the only ones that seem to care, anyway?
05:12 <GodTodd> which...are we sure that the government doesn't "crack down" on them *because* of that tendency?
05:13 <GodTodd> er...doesn't leave them alone
05:13 <GodTodd> something like that
05:13 <GodTodd> my brain is rotted by humanities class :/
05:14 <GodTodd> the best and easiest place to hide something is in plain sight
05:14 <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, you ever play Vampire: the Masquerade?
05:15 <GodTodd> long time ago
05:15 <GodTodd> yeah
05:15 <Lucifer_arma> you remember the idea in there that part of the masquerade was to create the mythology around vampires so that peole would never believe they could be real?
05:15 <GodTodd> yep
05:15 <Lucifer_arma> if the government occasionally terrorizes a crazy conspiracist guy, they just make him crazier
05:15 <GodTodd> the trick is in *who* spreads the "news" :)
05:16 <Lucifer_arma> so he goes on the air, or writes a book, or makes a documentary, or whatever, and just looks crazier
05:16 <GodTodd> exactly
05:16 <Lucifer_arma> they don't have to really try to suppress him, they just have to wiggle their dicks at him
05:16 <GodTodd> yep
05:16 <Lucifer_arma> in fact, if they succeeded at suppressing these guys, it would undermine what they're really after
05:16 <GodTodd> precisely :)
05:16 <Lucifer_arma> which is protecting a small subset of real information they've got and making sure it's discredited
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> bah
05:17 <GodTodd> and i wouldn't discount *calculated* leaks of conspiracy theory
05:17 <Lucifer_arma> madison really screwed up when he assumed that people would always have their own thoughts and keep government in check
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> oh definitely.  The white house probably plans their leaks nowadays to hit the bloggers first, so they'll thoroughly discredit the leak with their inanities
05:18 <GodTodd> thing is...the founding fathers assumed the whole country would be as smart and freethinking as they tended to be
05:18 <GodTodd> they didn't account for stupid americans
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> so when it hits mainstream, it's like "who cares?  The idiots already talked it to death and it's not that big a deal"
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> they missed a few things, that's for sure
05:18 <GodTodd> yep
05:18 <GodTodd> quite a few
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> Thomas Jefferson apparently never saw the conflict of interest in public education
05:18 <Lucifer_arma> when the government controls education, everybody loves government
05:19 <GodTodd> when the church controls education, everybody loves the church
05:19 <GodTodd> same principle
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> it's hard to knock them for it, since they were on the cutting-edge of political engineering, considering they were the first to implement Locke's ideas in a real government
05:19 <Lucifer_arma> and they did so many *good* things forming this country
05:20 <GodTodd> oh...yeah...they did an awesome job...and it's impossible to think of every eventuality...but there's still stuff they could have thought about/set up differently
05:20 <Lucifer_arma> but man, blindly following what the founding fathers did and said is probably at least as destructive to good government as just blindly doing whatever <insert your favorite idiot here> says
05:20 <GodTodd> definitely
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> I've got the founding fathers on my mind right now because of this book (lemme dig up a link) which I'm currently reading:
05:21 <GodTodd> and they at least had an inkling that that was true which is why they set up a means to change what they set up
05:21 <Lucifer_arma> http://www.webscription.net/p-588-1812-the-rivers-of-war.aspx
05:22 <Lucifer_arma> the means is too slow for the kinds of social revolutions we've seen, though
05:22 <Lucifer_arma> when the country industrialized, there was a vacuum of legal structures to protect citizens that evil blood-sucking capitalists stepped into and exploited people
05:22 <Lucifer_arma> same thing when the so-called information age started
05:22 <GodTodd> yep
05:22 <GodTodd> disinformation*
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> we're still in that vacuum, that's what free software is all about, trying to establish the legal structures we need to have a free society in the future
05:23 <Lucifer_arma> it sounds so very silly in a lot of ways, but some day we could find ourselves wishing the corporations didn't control how information was disseminated
05:23 <GodTodd> yep
05:35 <Lucifer_arma> yay, finally, an assignment in my government class :)
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07:54 <GodTodd> bah...went ahead and wrote my weekly summary report for govt class :/
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08:41 <MrBougo> whats govt class?
08:46 <GodTodd> government class
08:50 <MrBougo> ...
08:51 <MrBougo> yep but what the hell i this
08:51 <MrBougo> i think we dont have anytything similar here
08:51 <GodTodd> you don't study the inner workings of your government?
09:14 <Lucifer_arma> apparently not
09:21 <spidey> Lucifer_arma: liar
09:25 <Lucifer_arma> spidey: punk
09:25 <spidey> u
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> no, you
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm going to bed, and I've wasted enough time tonight
09:26 <Lucifer_arma> got real homework and shit now :)
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09:46 <epsy> hi
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10:41 <epsy> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/152186681/article.pl
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18:46 <Lucifer_arma> bastards
18:46 <Lucifer_arma> they canceled my order!
18:47 <Lucifer_arma> the only jo on the web that's the right size, and they canceled the order because they were out of stock!
18:47 <Lucifer_arma> what, you can't go cut another 54 inch stick?
18:47  * Lucifer_arma is going to the lumberyard now
18:47  * Lucifer_arma mumbles that he should have done this to begin with
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20:17 <epsy> #onlineservers
20:17 <armabot> epsy: This data is 20 seconds old; Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress (13/14), Norm's Place (11/12), ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's Fortress {100MBit} (9/16), Wild West  =Capture The Flag= Backup Server (7/10), -=}ID< -=}Immortal Dynasty< -=}High Rubber < (7/12), ëDurka Durka Landë (5/16), SPACEZONE [VERY HIGH SPEED!!] (4/8), WILDCAT (3/16), Fortress Café (3/32), The YELLOW Submarine (2/16), Tigers Network (1 more message)
20:25 <spidey_> lol @ microsoft
20:38 <spidey_> so
20:38 <spidey_> how would i get a app running in wine to go away
20:38 <spidey_> since it  seems to think it should move between all my virtual desktops to
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