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[2024-03-10 03:07:32] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2024-03-10 03:07:33] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2024-03-10 03:07:35] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2024-03-10 03:24:55] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2024-03-10 03:24:58] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2024-03-10 05:34:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not a bad drive from bearman yesterday
[2024-03-10 05:34:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not a bad drive from bearman yesterday
[2024-03-10 05:34:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Another hamilton maybe
[2024-03-10 05:34:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Another hamilton maybe
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[2024-03-10 06:02:04] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2024-03-10 06:02:06] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2024-03-10 06:02:09] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2024-03-10 06:10:27] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Herb Sutter is working along your ideas. His idea is to define a new syntax for C++ with defaults fixed (like, const is the default, non-const needs to be marked as 'mutable'), where the first implementations will transpile to C++ to guarantee it is 100% compatible with old C++ code. The new compiler or transpiler than can have a Rust-Style code checker that can detect dangerous <clipped message>
[2024-03-10 06:10:27] <Z-Man> Herb Sutter is working along your ideas. His idea is to define a new syntax for C++ with defaults fixed (like, const is the default, non-const needs to be marked as 'mutable'), where the first implementations will transpile to C++ to guarantee it is 100% compatible with old C++ code. The new compiler or transpiler than can have a Rust-Style code checker that can detect dangerous sharing of mutable state. Optional, I think. https://github.com
[2024-03-10 06:10:27] <Z-Man> /hsutter/cppfront
[2024-03-10 06:10:27] <Z-Man> It's an experiment. His last big thing, metaclasses, I guess is on hold or scrapped. That would have allowed for precisely what you want with the 'parallel' modifier. It would have been a code modification tool where you define that a 'parallel_class' is like a regular class, but every object gets a mutex, and all functions automatically lock that on entry and unlock it on exit.
[2024-03-10 06:10:27] <Z-Man> Of course, that apporach can lead to deadlocks because now all your member functions hold the lock while potentially calling out to other functions that you don't know what they'll do, how long they take, what other locks they need. And 'lock everything' is also poison for performance.
[2024-03-10 06:10:28] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| sharing of mutable state. Optional, I think. https://github.com
[2024-03-10 06:10:30] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| /hsutter/cppfront
[2024-03-10 06:10:31] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| It's an experiment. His last big thing, metaclasses, I guess is on hold or scrapped. That would have allowed for precisely what you want with the 'parallel' modifier. It would have been a code modification tool where you define that a 'parallel_class' is like a regular class, but every object gets a mutex, and all functions automatically lock that on entry and unlock it on exit.
[2024-03-10 06:10:32] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Of course, that apporach can lead to deadlocks because now all your member functions hold the lock while potentially calling out to other functions that you don't know what they'll do, how long they take, what other locks they need. And 'lock everything' is also poison for performance.
[2024-03-10 13:34:36] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| Jumping the gun a bit lmao
[2024-03-10 13:34:36] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| Jumping the gun a bit lmao
[2024-03-10 14:23:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| maybe. He's got the moves though, koala's been watching him for a while
[2024-03-10 14:23:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| maybe. He's got the moves though, koala's been watching him for a while
[2024-03-10 22:40:36] <Lucifer_arma> there may need to be a reentrant keyword too, then, heh. Since, you know, the whole reason we have so many locks is because there are different needs and different ways to avoid deadlocks
[2024-03-10 22:40:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there may need to be a reentrant keyword too, then, heh. Since, you know, the whole reason we have so many locks is because there are different needs and different ways to avoid deadlocks
[2024-03-10 22:41:06] <Lucifer_arma> a reentrant function needs to use locks that are reentrant
[2024-03-10 22:41:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a reentrant function needs to use locks that are reentrant
[2024-03-10 22:41:42] <Lucifer_arma> python uses that definition of reentrant officially, but there are spots in the docs where it's used to mean threadsafe
[2024-03-10 22:41:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| python uses that definition of reentrant officially, but there are spots in the docs where it's used to mean threadsafe
[2024-03-10 22:43:21] <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what kind of performance hit you'd get if you gave every parallel object an instance of each individual mutex and then determine at runtime which lock to use
[2024-03-10 22:43:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I wonder what kind of performance hit you'd get if you gave every parallel object an instance of each individual mutex and then determine at runtime which lock to use
[2024-03-10 22:43:42] <Lucifer_arma> you'd have wrapper lock methods to do the determination, and to check if any of the locks are locked
[2024-03-10 22:43:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you'd have wrapper lock methods to do the determination, and to check if any of the locks are locked
[2024-03-10 22:44:44] <Lucifer_arma> I tend to use a pattern where I put the locking in the getters and setters and let the nature of the class determine what kind of mutex I need
[2024-03-10 22:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I tend to use a pattern where I put the locking in the getters and setters and let the nature of the class determine what kind of mutex I need
[2024-03-10 22:45:46] <Lucifer_arma> which is silly in multi-threaded python because python isn't truly multithreaded (yet) and the internal data types are all threadsafe by design (because of the global interpreter lock, which is also the reason there aren't true threads)
[2024-03-10 22:45:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| which is silly in multi-threaded python because python isn't truly multithreaded (yet) and the internal data types are all threadsafe by design (because of the global interpreter lock, which is also the reason there aren't true threads)
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