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[2024-02-25 02:00:34] --> paddymahoney has joined the channel
[2024-02-25 09:45:50] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya, I'm aware of all of these arguments. I'm aware of the academic answers to these questions. They don't solve the *human* factor - which is the unaccountable emotional attachment to the complex and the uncouth. You can build a battery with the energy density of a thousand suns, and it would still fail to answer the *hnnng* factor. With a combustion engine, you can quite literal <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya, I'm aware of all of these arguments. I'm aware of the academic answers to these questions. They don't solve the *human* factor - which is the unaccountable emotional attachment to the complex and the uncouth. You can build a battery with the energy density of a thousand suns, and it would still fail to answer the *hnnng* factor. With a combustion engine, you can quite literal <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ly feel and hear the work that the engine is doing - and whilst an electric motor isn't completely silent, there's no *throb* to it. Everything you tell me about a battery or a motor is a paper figure, because I hav no way to emotionally evaluate how those figures reflect reality. In short, an electric motor doesn't quite get the heart going as much as the whiney rumble of a supe <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ly feel and hear the work that the engine is doing - and whilst an electric motor isn't completely silent, there's no *throb* to it. Everything you tell me about a battery or a motor is a paper figure, because I hav no way to emotionally evaluate how those figures reflect reality. In short, an electric motor doesn't quite get the heart going as much as the whiney rumble of a supe <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| rcharged jag.
[2024-02-25 09:45:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| rcharged jag.
[2024-02-25 09:45:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's why you have people who hate electric cars so much - even though they might not necessarily be able to put into words *why* they don't like them. Give them something that *sounds* and *feels* like a V8, though, and they have no real reason to say no. That's what I'm looking at - will the public, en masse, adopt a new fuel over electric?
[2024-02-25 09:45:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's why you have people who hate electric cars so much - even though they might not necessarily be able to put into words *why* they don't like them. Give them something that *sounds* and *feels* like a V8, though, and they have no real reason to say no. That's what I'm looking at - will the public, en masse, adopt a new fuel over electric?
[2024-02-25 09:45:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also, you mentioned sporadic development over a century - yes, true, but so have hydrogen vehicles! In fact, Hydrogen vehicles have a history right back to 1802 (if you talk about hydrogen as a whole) or 1860 (if you talk about hydrogen combustion engines). In fact, there's a whole production vehicle from 2005 - and an entirely bivalent vehicle at that. That vehicle was even sold <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also, you mentioned sporadic development over a century - yes, true, but so have hydrogen vehicles! In fact, Hydrogen vehicles have a history right back to 1802 (if you talk about hydrogen as a whole) or 1860 (if you talk about hydrogen combustion engines). In fact, there's a whole production vehicle from 2005 - and an entirely bivalent vehicle at that. That vehicle was even sold <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent|  on the market - although this *is* 2006, so you're talking kinda shitty mpg. That program is still, afaik, under development.
[2024-02-25 09:45:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent|  on the market - although this *is* 2006, so you're talking kinda shitty mpg. That program is still, afaik, under development.
[2024-02-25 09:45:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| You're right about the extraneous engineering though - although much of it has already been done, changing to a polymer would essentially require a significant proportion of it to be revised. However, I don't think that that is necessarily a limiting factor - we have a degree of the chemical and physical science already available to us, so rather than an entirely new premise, all <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| You're right about the extraneous engineering though - although much of it has already been done, changing to a polymer would essentially require a significant proportion of it to be revised. However, I don't think that that is necessarily a limiting factor - we have a degree of the chemical and physical science already available to us, so rather than an entirely new premise, all <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:45:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent|  we need do is build on what we already have. 
[2024-02-25 09:45:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent|  we need do is build on what we already have. 
[2024-02-25 09:46:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I wouldn't say EVs are worthless, just as an aside. They certainly have *some* utility. This is mroe a question fo attempting to satisfy a part of the market that really doesn't care for them
[2024-02-25 09:46:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I wouldn't say EVs are worthless, just as an aside. They certainly have *some* utility. This is mroe a question fo attempting to satisfy a part of the market that really doesn't care for them
[2024-02-25 09:48:17] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| The only real advantages of ICE cars right now are the higher range on one filling and the speed you can fill your tank with. All of the other stuff people quote, the noise, the way you play with the clutch, how real it feels when you change your own oil, the feeling of moving the shift stick... that's all just mental inertia. Some smart person I can't quite remember once said th <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:48:17] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| The only real advantages of ICE cars right now are the higher range on one filling and the speed you can fill your tank with. All of the other stuff people quote, the noise, the way you play with the clutch, how real it feels when you change your own oil, the feeling of moving the shift stick... that's all just mental inertia. Some smart person I can't quite remember once said th <clipped message>
[2024-02-25 09:48:18] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| at if it were the other way round, if we had used EVs for the past hundred years and would need to switch to ICEs now for some reason, people would complain that the trip to the charging station is no longer an event they can enjoy.
[2024-02-25 09:48:18] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| at if it were the other way round, if we had used EVs for the past hundred years and would need to switch to ICEs now for some reason, people would complain that the trip to the charging station is no longer an event they can enjoy.
[2024-02-25 09:48:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hah, you're probably right about that!
[2024-02-25 09:48:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hah, you're probably right about that!
[2024-02-25 09:49:56] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I've been using car sharing in the past couple of months, driven both kinds. One thing I assume any car person would love about EVs is their absolute immediate response, from standstil, to pressing the accelerator.
[2024-02-25 09:49:57] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I've been using car sharing in the past couple of months, driven both kinds. One thing I assume any car person would love about EVs is their absolute immediate response, from standstil, to pressing the accelerator.
[2024-02-25 09:50:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm in something of a unique position, though - I'm rather closer than either of you are to the generation that has grown up essentially with both. In fact, that's the generation below mine - and the same attitudes are prevalent in that generation as exist in others. My own brother admires electric vehicles, but would never own one. He's 20.
[2024-02-25 09:50:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm in something of a unique position, though - I'm rather closer than either of you are to the generation that has grown up essentially with both. In fact, that's the generation below mine - and the same attitudes are prevalent in that generation as exist in others. My own brother admires electric vehicles, but would never own one. He's 20.
[2024-02-25 09:51:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| you *could* make the argument that inertia for both forms of vehicle perhaps exist, though, so perhaps my arguemtn is not as strong as I might think
[2024-02-25 09:51:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| you *could* make the argument that inertia for both forms of vehicle perhaps exist, though, so perhaps my arguemtn is not as strong as I might think
[2024-02-25 09:51:13] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Give him another five or ten years.
[2024-02-25 09:51:13] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Give him another five or ten years.
[2024-02-25 09:51:33] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| (Oh right, price is also an issue, can't forget about that.)
[2024-02-25 09:51:33] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| (Oh right, price is also an issue, can't forget about that.)
[2024-02-25 09:52:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| meh, he could technically lease either or for the same money per month. He's about to go get hsi first car, and I've told him in no uncertain terms that if he goes for a lease I will remove his forequarters, but the money thing is not so much an issue in the age of the subscription (eugh, I feel dirty saying that)
[2024-02-25 09:52:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| meh, he could technically lease either or for the same money per month. He's about to go get hsi first car, and I've told him in no uncertain terms that if he goes for a lease I will remove his forequarters, but the money thing is not so much an issue in the age of the subscription (eugh, I feel dirty saying that)
[2024-02-25 09:53:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| as it stands, I'm gonna push him gently in the direction fo a well-loved early 00's hatchback for under half a grand, and the remainder of the few grand he has will go toward the tools he needs to fix it up
[2024-02-25 09:53:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| as it stands, I'm gonna push him gently in the direction fo a well-loved early 00's hatchback for under half a grand, and the remainder of the few grand he has will go toward the tools he needs to fix it up
[2024-02-25 09:54:23] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Nah. I realized yesterday: We have a certain bike rental service here, and if the conditions for you are right, even if you use it a lot, it can end up cheaper than owning a bike.
[2024-02-25 09:54:23] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Nah. I realized yesterday: We have a certain bike rental service here, and if the conditions for you are right, even if you use it a lot, it can end up cheaper than owning a bike.
[2024-02-25 09:54:52] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| It's like: Pay 60 Euro a year, and all your trips shorter than 30 minutes are free.
[2024-02-25 09:54:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| It's like: Pay 60 Euro a year, and all your trips shorter than 30 minutes are free.
[2024-02-25 09:55:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait, bicycle or motorcycle?
[2024-02-25 09:55:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait, bicycle or motorcycle?
[2024-02-25 09:55:24] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Bicycle.
[2024-02-25 09:55:24] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Bicycle.
[2024-02-25 09:55:32] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Sorry ๐Ÿ™‚
[2024-02-25 09:55:33] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Sorry ๐Ÿ™‚
[2024-02-25 09:55:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh
[2024-02-25 09:55:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh
[2024-02-25 09:55:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| nah, I get it. Although tbf all the bikes I've ever had have been twenty quid out the scrappy
[2024-02-25 09:55:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| nah, I get it. Although tbf all the bikes I've ever had have been twenty quid out the scrappy
[2024-02-25 09:56:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I had a huge heavy downhil frame at one point, I miss it
[2024-02-25 09:56:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I had a huge heavy downhil frame at one point, I miss it
[2024-02-25 09:56:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't know about cologne specifically, but Mindelheim has quite the cycle infrastructure. In a city designed for the use of both vehciles and cycles, that kinda makes sense
[2024-02-25 09:56:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't know about cologne specifically, but Mindelheim has quite the cycle infrastructure. In a city designed for the use of both vehciles and cycles, that kinda makes sense
[2024-02-25 10:00:19] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I had scrapyard salvage bikes too at one point. Especially those I used to ride to the train station... But right now, by bike is pretty much my main end-to-end transportation, so I want it to be reasonably nice.
[2024-02-25 10:00:19] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I had scrapyard salvage bikes too at one point. Especially those I used to ride to the train station... But right now, by bike is pretty much my main end-to-end transportation, so I want it to be reasonably nice.
[2024-02-25 10:00:19] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| The rental bikes are just about reasonably nice. They're bulky and heavy only have three gears. I should not complain too much, because I only used the lowest and highest ๐Ÿ™‚
[2024-02-25 10:00:19] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| The rental bikes are just about reasonably nice. They're bulky and heavy only have three gears. I should not complain too much, because I only used the lowest and highest ๐Ÿ™‚
[2024-02-25 10:08:34] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| OK, I'm convinced now that generative AI can be useful: https://pastebin.com/vYA7meb5
[2024-02-25 10:08:34] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| OK, I'm convinced now that generative AI can be useful: https://pastebin.com/vYA7meb5
[2024-02-25 10:10:02] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| And that's a tiny local model that generates text faster than I can read. It does tend to halucinate a lot, though.
[2024-02-25 10:10:02] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| And that's a tiny local model that generates text faster than I can read. It does tend to halucinate a lot, though.
[2024-02-25 11:11:27] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so ive noticed like quite a lot of people here answer my questions just by chatting and not replying
[2024-02-25 11:11:27] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so ive noticed like quite a lot of people here answer my questions just by chatting and not replying
[2024-02-25 11:11:57] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so um i wont read the chat ones cause a week of a vacation is kinda like i wont read hundreds of messages cause i sorta ddint rest enough
[2024-02-25 11:11:57] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so um i wont read the chat ones cause a week of a vacation is kinda like i wont read hundreds of messages cause i sorta ddint rest enough
[2024-02-25 11:12:24] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so like just reply to what you wanted to tell me and include @xirlord_57543
[2024-02-25 11:12:24] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| so like just reply to what you wanted to tell me and include @xirlord_57543
[2024-02-25 12:49:30] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @xirlord_57543 Same for me, actually. This channel alone, not to mention the whole Discord, is too much to actually read through. Not actually so much because of the volume, but because of the chat structure.
[2024-02-25 12:49:30] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @xirlord_57543 Same for me, actually. This channel alone, not to mention the whole Discord, is too much to actually read through. Not actually so much because of the volume, but because of the chat structure.
[2024-02-25 13:01:16] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| OMGOMG whe have this implied contract here in the house that the area around the mail boxes and trashcan at the exit is a general swap area; so if someone does not want a DVD any more, they just put them there for a bit for others to take, and if the're still there after a couple of days, they get thrown out for good.
[2024-02-25 13:01:16] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| OMGOMG whe have this implied contract here in the house that the area around the mail boxes and trashcan at the exit is a general swap area; so if someone does not want a DVD any more, they just put them there for a bit for others to take, and if the're still there after a couple of days, they get thrown out for good.
[2024-02-25 13:01:17] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Anyway, today I was about to go out for a jog, and found a perfectly good snakeboard for adults there. If that's what the skateboard like things that only have one wheel in front and in the back that both can rotate are called. Waveboards, I think, is another term. I would never have bought one myself, because they look TERRIFYING. But now that I have one, I am happy as a clam. T <clipped message>
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[2024-02-25 14:38:54] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| me on popular discord servers tryna scroll up to what happened 2 minutes ago:
[2024-02-25 14:38:54] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| me on popular discord servers tryna scroll up to what happened 2 minutes ago:
[2024-02-25 14:39:09] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| https://tenor.com/view/sweating-wet-wipe-gif-15394859
[2024-02-25 14:39:09] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:xirlord_57543| https://tenor.com/view/sweating-wet-wipe-gif-15394859
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[2024-02-25 18:53:21] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:juesto| the reason is that its bridged to irc and theres no replies functionality there and pings are to the display name not the username
[2024-02-25 18:53:22] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:juesto| the reason is that its bridged to irc and theres no replies functionality there and pings are to the display name not the username
[2024-02-25 22:42:06] <Lucifer_arma> @xirlord and there's no list in irc of people who are on discord
[2024-02-25 22:42:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @xirlord and there's no list in irc of people who are on discord
[2024-02-25 22:43:01] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I don't know if I can stress enough that after 4 years of doing custom exhaust in central Texas, I'm well aware of the exact points you're making, as well as reasonably aware of which proportion of the population is going to care as much as you say they will
[2024-02-25 22:43:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I don't know if I can stress enough that after 4 years of doing custom exhaust in central Texas, I'm well aware of the exact points you're making, as well as reasonably aware of which proportion of the population is going to care as much as you say they will
[2024-02-25 22:43:29] <Lucifer_arma> the single biggest factor slowing EV adoption right now is range anxiety
[2024-02-25 22:43:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the single biggest factor slowing EV adoption right now is range anxiety
[2024-02-25 22:43:47] <Lucifer_arma> but EV adoption is still moving at a pretty good clip.
[2024-02-25 22:43:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but EV adoption is still moving at a pretty good clip.
[2024-02-25 22:44:13] <Lucifer_arma> even in central texas, a notoriously fossil fuel dependent place.  I saw a Rivian today, and I see Teslas several times a week.
[2024-02-25 22:44:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| even in central texas, a notoriously fossil fuel dependent place.  I saw a Rivian today, and I see Teslas several times a week.
[2024-02-25 22:45:00] <Lucifer_arma> and a 12 second production car with no emissions is *not* a paper figure.  It's performance that few people outside of hot rodders and race car drivers have ever experienced
[2024-02-25 22:45:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and a 12 second production car with no emissions is *not* a paper figure.  It's performance that few people outside of hot rodders and race car drivers have ever experienced
[2024-02-25 22:46:00] <Lucifer_arma> I've driven a 12 second car.  It was a camaro, iirc (it was 10 years ago).  I guarantee you that for most people who might think the sound matters, once they see how response and *fast* an EV is, they won't care about the sound anymore
[2024-02-25 22:46:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've driven a 12 second car.  It was a camaro, iirc (it was 10 years ago).  I guarantee you that for most people who might think the sound matters, once they see how response and *fast* an EV is, they won't care about the sound anymore
[2024-02-25 22:46:31] <Lucifer_arma> (for non-car enthusiasts, 12 seconds is how fast a car like this can complete the quarter mile race, starting from a standstill, but not including braking, like they do in the UK)
[2024-02-25 22:46:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (for non-car enthusiasts, 12 seconds is how fast a car like this can complete the quarter mile race, starting from a standstill, but not including braking, like they do in the UK)
[2024-02-25 22:47:52] <Lucifer_arma> 14 seconds is the quarter mile time at which the local race tracks require roll cages to be installed
[2024-02-25 22:47:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| 14 seconds is the quarter mile time at which the local race tracks require roll cages to be installed
[2024-02-25 22:48:15] <Lucifer_arma> it's very rare for an ICE vehicle to be able to hit these kinds of times and still be street legal, but it's pretty easy for an EV to hit them
[2024-02-25 22:48:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's very rare for an ICE vehicle to be able to hit these kinds of times and still be street legal, but it's pretty easy for an EV to hit them
[2024-02-25 22:51:20] <Lucifer_arma> it's also getting extremely difficult to drive a stick shift and beat an automatic in the race.  Automatics are up to 7-8 gears now, and that computer can make slightly worse decisions much faster than a human and shift faster.
[2024-02-25 22:51:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's also getting extremely difficult to drive a stick shift and beat an automatic in the race.  Automatics are up to 7-8 gears now, and that computer can make slightly worse decisions much faster than a human and shift faster.

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