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[2023-09-12 01:03:59] -!- platinum.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-09-12 01:03:59] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-09-12 01:04:51] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-09-12 01:04:53] -!- larich.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-09-12 01:04:53] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2023-09-12 03:02:51] <Lucifer_arma> But...but... you're just describing different shades of the same color
[2023-09-12 03:02:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| But...but... you're just describing different shades of the same color
[2023-09-12 03:04:17] <Lucifer_arma> Also, a federation or a confederation nominally has a government (of sorts) that rules over nation states that are nominally independent, where each one voluntarily surrenders some of its authority to the higher government in exchange for benefits like protection from that government
[2023-09-12 03:04:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Also, a federation or a confederation nominally has a government (of sorts) that rules over nation states that are nominally independent, where each one voluntarily surrenders some of its authority to the higher government in exchange for benefits like protection from that government
[2023-09-12 03:05:57] <Lucifer_arma> The Klingons also subjugated, as shown in the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, where they attempted to do just that to the Organians.  The Romulans were modeled after imperial Rome, which conquered, put their own regional governors in charge, and then allowed for self-rule (for the most part)
[2023-09-12 03:05:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The Klingons also subjugated, as shown in the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, where they attempted to do just that to the Organians.  The Romulans were modeled after imperial Rome, which conquered, put their own regional governors in charge, and then allowed for self-rule (for the most part)
[2023-09-12 03:07:43] <Lucifer_arma> but as I recall, the defining trait of an empire is perpetual growth, usually through conquest, although the Europeans called it colonization.
[2023-09-12 03:07:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but as I recall, the defining trait of an empire is perpetual growth, usually through conquest, although the Europeans called it colonization.
[2023-09-12 03:14:33] <Lucifer_arma> ok, it looks to me like the defining trait of an empire is simply that whatever people or nation state that is absorbed into an empire, it is done without the people or nation state choosing, usually through conquest.
[2023-09-12 03:14:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, it looks to me like the defining trait of an empire is simply that whatever people or nation state that is absorbed into an empire, it is done without the people or nation state choosing, usually through conquest.
[2023-09-12 03:15:17] <Lucifer_arma> Also, that the ruling polity, whoever that is, has more rights and power than the ruled
[2023-09-12 03:15:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Also, that the ruling polity, whoever that is, has more rights and power than the ruled
[2023-09-12 03:16:26] <Lucifer_arma> so during the first few seasons of ds9, the Federation was trying to exert some form of imperial influence over Bajor, and Bajor was really trying to keep its independence but felt like it was going to have to join the Federation to get protection from Cardassia
[2023-09-12 03:16:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so during the first few seasons of ds9, the Federation was trying to exert some form of imperial influence over Bajor, and Bajor was really trying to keep its independence but felt like it was going to have to join the Federation to get protection from Cardassia
[2023-09-12 03:17:31] <Lucifer_arma> and the line Sisko was walking was that he knew that Bajor needed to join the Federation voluntarily, without any coercion at all, and at a certain point, the Prophets made it clear to him that Bajor needed to stay independent, which ultimately saved them from the Dominion
[2023-09-12 03:17:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and the line Sisko was walking was that he knew that Bajor needed to join the Federation voluntarily, without any coercion at all, and at a certain point, the Prophets made it clear to him that Bajor needed to stay independent, which ultimately saved them from the Dominion
[2023-09-12 03:17:57] <Lucifer_arma> even then, the Dominion nearly absorbed Bajor then they occupied DS9 for that whole season (I forget which it was, season 5?)
[2023-09-12 03:17:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| even then, the Dominion nearly absorbed Bajor then they occupied DS9 for that whole season (I forget which it was, season 5?)
[2023-09-12 03:19:27] <Lucifer_arma> we never see the romulans trying to expand, so we dont' know *how* they expand.  They could very well be one of those empires who's an empire in name only, like the former Mexican Empire
[2023-09-12 03:19:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we never see the romulans trying to expand, so we dont' know *how* they expand.  They could very well be one of those empires who's an empire in name only, like the former Mexican Empire
[2023-09-12 03:20:35] <Lucifer_arma> in the TNG era, we don't see the Klingons trying to expand either, and that's an important plot point in later TNG and throughout DS9 (important for the Klingons, not important for the shows that aren't about the Klingons).  But we see them expanding, sort of, in Enterprise
[2023-09-12 03:20:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in the TNG era, we don't see the Klingons trying to expand either, and that's an important plot point in later TNG and throughout DS9 (important for the Klingons, not important for the shows that aren't about the Klingons).  But we see them expanding, sort of, in Enterprise
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[2023-09-12 10:17:43] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| I feel like that definition of imperialism is separate and a more modern term @northernscrub imperial is just the adjective version of empire
[2023-09-12 10:17:43] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| I feel like that definition of imperialism is separate and a more modern term @northernscrub imperial is just the adjective version of empire
[2023-09-12 12:16:59] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:spectron2077| What ever happend to adding music to armagetronad. The gltron game has it
[2023-09-12 12:16:59] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:spectron2077| What ever happend to adding music to armagetronad. The gltron game has it
[2023-09-12 12:21:34] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| trunk (0.4) does have music
[2023-09-12 12:21:34] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| trunk (0.4) does have music
[2023-09-12 12:24:03] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Where do I find this
[2023-09-12 12:24:03] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Where do I find this
[2023-09-12 12:24:46] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://download.armagetronad.org
[2023-09-12 12:24:46] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://download.armagetronad.org
[2023-09-12 16:05:42] <Lucifer_arma> I seem to remember playlist support not working, or there's some sort of catch to it
[2023-09-12 16:05:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I seem to remember playlist support not working, or there's some sort of catch to it
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[2023-09-12 23:07:11] <Lucifer_arma> @Deso: maybe, but it would have been the understood meaning when these stories were written.  It's not like we're trying real hard to evaluate ancient empires that used a different working definition.
[2023-09-12 23:07:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Deso: maybe, but it would have been the understood meaning when these stories were written.  It's not like we're trying real hard to evaluate ancient empires that used a different working definition.
[2023-09-12 23:07:28] <Lucifer_arma> Still, all the ancient empires that come to mind (Rome, Greek, Persia) all meet this definition
[2023-09-12 23:07:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Still, all the ancient empires that come to mind (Rome, Greek, Persia) all meet this definition
[2023-09-12 23:08:39] <Lucifer_arma> Curiously, I don't think Imperial Japan tried to expand much past the island chain until the 20th century, other than longstanding feuds over the Korean peninsula and manchuria
[2023-09-12 23:08:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Curiously, I don't think Imperial Japan tried to expand much past the island chain until the 20th century, other than longstanding feuds over the Korean peninsula and manchuria
[2023-09-12 23:10:11] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| still the definition of imperial has nothing to do with imperialism
[2023-09-12 23:10:13] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| still the definition of imperial has nothing to do with imperialism
[2023-09-12 23:10:16] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| it just means empire
[2023-09-12 23:10:16] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| it just means empire
[2023-09-12 23:16:51] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/worst-lines-of-dialogue-in-trek.304571/page-5 mentioned on this thread of "worst lines in star trek" lol
[2023-09-12 23:16:51] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/worst-lines-of-dialogue-in-trek.304571/page-5 mentioned on this thread of "worst lines in star trek" lol
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