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Log from 2016-07-24:
Jul 24 00:48:18 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	sinewav: made it to the ER, we all talked about exactly what the consequences of her running away would be long-term (basically, if she does it again, this bridge is burned)
Jul 24 00:48:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	there will be a reconciliation possibility at some point in the future, but it could take a few years before I'll be willing to reconcile
Jul 24 00:49:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	anyway, the social worker decided to discharge her to me and send us home.  She swore up and down that she was going to bolt at the first opportunity, so I got her to talk to us before leaving, making sure she understood what she was doing.
Jul 24 00:49:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	after she demonstrated that she didn't know what she was doing, she paid lip service to understanding the big FUCK YOU that running away from your family actually is (as opposed to actually moving out)
Jul 24 00:49:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she bolted again
Jul 24 00:50:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm waiting for a cop so I can file a report of her as a runaway
Jul 24 00:50:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	at that time, because of her age, even if the cops pick her up, I can't be forced to take her back.  And if she's just going to bolt again, why should I?
Jul 24 03:00:23 2016 <sinewav>	What a terrible situation. I hope one of you discovers a positive solution to this mess. If she can find somewhere to feel safe and comfortable I'm sure she will gain a better perspective, and hopefully it involves keeping you in her life. :/
Jul 24 03:46:54 2016 *	sinewav has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
Jul 24 04:02:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	]later tell sinewav she went to a friend's house.  She thinks she'll be able to not kill herself while she's there.  If she made it there (I have no confirmation on that), then she's safe.
Jul 24 04:02:24 2016 <ljrbot>	Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
Jul 24 04:03:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	]later tell sinewav for me, the positive solution to this mess is letting her go.  It's really hard, and I'm tearing up while writing this, but that's what I have to do.  What if she's right?  What if she's only 40% right?  She can make this work!
Jul 24 04:03:22 2016 <ljrbot>	Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
Jul 24 04:03:42 2016 *	G5 (~g5@p2003006A6A7BA200947EFFB93E674A14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #armagetron
Jul 24 04:04:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	]later tell sinewav she's my kid, she can make this work.  I have to give her the freedom to do that.  I'm all about freedom, you know that probably more than anybody else around here.
Jul 24 04:04:01 2016 <ljrbot>	Lucifer_arma: The operation succeeded.
Jul 24 04:04:57 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	dammit, I knew this was going to happen.
Jul 24 04:05:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but honestly, what does the GPL mean?  It means certain things when applied to software, but when it's your life, what does it mean?  It's not meant to apply to life, mind you....
Jul 24 04:06:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but freedom is for everybody.  People in authority positions have to respect that, they have to behave accordingly.
Jul 24 04:06:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	And there are no exceptions.
Jul 24 04:07:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Every instinct tells me that I have to get my kid and make sure she's safe.  Except for one instinct.  That freedom thing.  I have to let her have that freedom.  If not, then who the fuck am I?
Jul 24 04:08:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	ok, I'm going away.  Might even close the irc client.  I've wasted enough of other people's time on drama they probably don't care about.
Jul 24 04:09:38 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm not in danger, mind you.  I'm not suicidal.  I'm quite emotional.  I'd really appreciate it if someone's reading this and is willing to talk to me.  No obligation, of course.
Jul 24 04:15:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Z-Man: guru3, MrBougo, luke-jr (maybe), wrtlprnft, um, ping?  Yeah, there's a cry for help here, but if you don't/can't respond, don't sweat it.  I'm not in danger.
Jul 24 04:31:17 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Also, in case anybody's curious, I logged out of facebook on my laptop (which is what I'm using), and I had my wife take my phone and plug it in, so I won't go making potentially irrevocable social media posts.
Jul 24 04:32:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	so this is it, and I'm only going to respond to forum posts, not make new ones (if I get drunk enough, please just delete it, whatever it says).  I'm supposed to be in a chroot environment with few permissions right now.
Jul 24 04:33:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we took advance steps, but they're not perfect.  There are holes in the steps we took, is what I'm saying.  And now I'll shut up until someone uses my name and causes me to be highlighted.
Jul 24 05:02:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Ok, for anybody who's paying attentions and actually cares (weeeee persecution complex!), I'm pretty ok now.  I was never a suicide risk, and I'm definitely not one now.  I' d still like to talk to someone, but as far as emotional crises are concerned, I think I'm past that.  I'd still love to talk to someone, and I ain't gonna lie about that.
Jul 24 05:04:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but I'm otherwise ok.  I feel like I should say something so that nobody worries unnecessarily.  Trust me, If I really needed help to stop me from being suicidal, or just needed help, I'd reach out.  I have a phone, there are people I can call in the event nobody answers here.  I'll do that, if I need to.  (I'll also wake up my wife and talk to her, that'd be more productive)
Jul 24 05:05:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So there has been no time when I thought someone here should talk to me, is what I'm saying.  I'm talking to an empty channel, so I'm probably talking more than I should.
Jul 24 05:06:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I will continue to be awake for awhile, and if someone wants to talk to me, highlight my name and I'll answer as quickly as I can, and we can talk.
Jul 24 05:37:53 2016 <Z-Man>	Lucifer_arma: I'm here!
Jul 24 05:38:27 2016 <Z-Man>	And I thought I had a rough morning when my wife said she's serious about moving to Portugal.
Jul 24 05:39:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	oh shit.  SO I've got my thing, and you're looking at a divorce.  (or moving to portugal, which would probably be AWESOME)
Jul 24 05:39:28 2016 <Z-Man>	Aren't the police supposed to respond to any missing person reports after said person is gone for 24 hours? Police dramas are what I learn those things from.
Jul 24 05:39:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she's 17, the police dramas lied to you
Jul 24 05:39:55 2016 <Z-Man>	Probably moving. Or living half separate.
Jul 24 05:40:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she can't be coerced into coming here, and I don't want the people she's with being put in jail
Jul 24 05:40:27 2016 <Z-Man>	Or waiting until she changes her mind again. She wanted to move to the North last year, wore off after a couple of months.
Jul 24 05:40:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	face it, on some level, she might be right and I might be wrong, and i Have to give her the freedom to figure that out
Jul 24 05:40:48 2016 <Z-Man>	So you can't declare her missing because she isn't really. Got it.
Jul 24 05:41:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she's from Portugal, wanting to go home is a different urge than randomlyl wanting to live somwhere else
Jul 24 05:41:15 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	please excuse the typos
Jul 24 05:41:23 2016 <Z-Man>	np
Jul 24 05:41:31 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but if she wants to come live in Texas, you take her up and get the fuck over here.
Jul 24 05:41:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	That's an order (you probably won't follow, damn that freedom thing!)
Jul 24 05:42:29 2016 <Z-Man>	Yeah, I guess you need to give her the freedom. You gave her all the guidance she could possibly need, I bet.
Jul 24 05:42:48 2016 <Z-Man>	It ALWAYS feels too early to let the kids go.
Jul 24 05:42:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I filed a runaway report, which should free eme from liability if she does property damage.  Other than that, I'm on the hook until she turns 18 (4.5 months from now)
Jul 24 05:43:37 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I also made sure when I filed the report to say that I don't want her brought back here against her will, and I definitely don't want anybody going to jail for helping her
Jul 24 05:43:50 2016 <Z-Man>	Would you be required by law to keep her in your house?
Jul 24 05:43:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it's Texas, there's a grey area there, and the report I made matters in how shit happens
Jul 24 05:44:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	no, she's a runaway, I don't have to take her back.
Jul 24 05:44:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but the person she's staying with can go to jail, regardless of whether or not I take her back
Jul 24 05:44:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	for the foreseeable future, I'm not taking her back.  She made her decision, I'm going to enforce it.  Basic parenting.
Jul 24 05:45:29 2016 <Z-Man>	So legally, the safe thing for everyone but you and your wife and possibly ex-wife would be to deny her shelter?
Jul 24 05:45:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You know, Europe is so open you should be able to live in Portugal wth your wife and see your family and do all that stuff....
Jul 24 05:46:06 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	no, it's complicated
Jul 24 05:46:29 2016 <Z-Man>	Yeah, from a buereaucratic perspective, the move is a non-issue as long as we're all still EU.
Jul 24 05:46:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I made a report that explicitly stated that I don't want people to help her to be prosecuted.  THhe state follows that recommendation.
Jul 24 05:47:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	She can go to her mom, and if her mom takes her, she can go live there.  If her mom says no, she suffers no adverse legal effects.
Jul 24 05:47:40 2016 <Z-Man>	Then I think you did all you could do.
Jul 24 05:47:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm the only one at serious risk of being prosecuted if I won't take her back.
Jul 24 05:48:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	She gets her chance.  I appreciate that you say I did all I can do.
Jul 24 05:48:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You, of all damned people, YOU know how I feel about freedom and individual liberty.  We've had our own drag-out smack-down arguments on that subject.
Jul 24 05:49:18 2016 <Z-Man>	We sure had.
Jul 24 05:49:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	We  might still disagree.  But I have to apply what I believe.
Jul 24 05:49:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm worried about her, I really am.  That's probably no surprise.
Jul 24 05:50:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I have to give her the freedom.  I can't not do that.  I'm NOT BUILT THAT WAY.  I have to give her that freedom.
Jul 24 05:51:03 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	But I'm a father, I'm built like a father, and dammit, I'm worried sick about her.
Jul 24 05:51:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	damn, I'm crying again.  Figures.
Jul 24 05:51:38 2016 <Z-Man>	Well, the law here is, IIRC, that if a 16 yo wants to live away from their parents, they can. All age limits are culture dependant and flexible. So the only reason not to give her her freedom, the age thing, is irrelevant at that margin.
Jul 24 05:52:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it's worth pointing out that this isn't a legal issue.  The law says I can't force her to come back, but I can be hell on whoever took her in (and I won't!  Freedom!)
Jul 24 05:52:51 2016 <Z-Man>	Of course you're worried. You're supposed to be. I'm worried too and I don't even know how she looks.
Jul 24 05:54:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I  have to give her the space.  I'm not looking for validation on that, but it's nice to have it.  You know damned well that I'm not who I think I am if I can't do this.
Jul 24 05:55:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I tell people in arma all the time "Take care of it", and "smegheads are part of the game", and "Serer operators are on their own".  This isn't different.
Jul 24 05:55:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	the only thing making this different is that this is my own kid.  ANd I've been asked "If this was your own kid, would you.....?"
Jul 24 05:55:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Well, for all the hypothetical times I've answered, now it's happening in real life, and the answer is that I choose her freedom.
Jul 24 05:56:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your server.  I choose my kid's freedom.
Jul 24 05:56:46 2016 <Z-Man>	At least she did not jump into the bear cage at the zoo.
Jul 24 05:57:14 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	that's a good thing.  Definitely better she didn't face the penguins.
Jul 24 05:58:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	wait, bad joke here, she faced the penguin when she talked to me.
Jul 24 05:59:00 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Like I said, bad joke.
Jul 24 05:59:07 2016 <Z-Man>	She'll be all right. Of course, she'll have her struggles, but with every day she is basically all right, you'll worry less.
Jul 24 05:59:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I did tell her that if she walked out that door, she's burned this bridge.  She's burned other bridges, and tried to explain why that was ok.
Jul 24 05:59:49 2016 <Z-Man>	Err, I don't get it... is facing the penguin some figure of speech?
Jul 24 06:00:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So I made sure she understood exactly what she was doing, and that it was her doing.
Jul 24 06:00:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Yes, facing the penguin, the Penguin is the Linux Mascot, I'm a Linux shill, yeah, that.
Jul 24 06:00:39 2016 <Z-Man>	ah,
Jul 24 06:02:39 2016 <Z-Man>	Hmm. People in general and kids especially, even if you tell them precisely what the consequences of their actions will be, sometimes still act impulsively without really considering the consequences.
Jul 24 06:03:11 2016 <Z-Man>	Just something to keep in mind in case she does come back in a couple of days after whatever drove her colled off.
Jul 24 06:05:29 2016 <Z-Man>	Oh, and you probably should try and get some sleep.
Jul 24 06:05:46 2016 <Z-Man>	Z-Girl and Z-Wife send all the best wishes, too, and hope everything is well.
Jul 24 06:06:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I"m not drunk enough to go to bed.  You understand that after the night's drama, I made it a goal to get drunk.  I have more....
Jul 24 06:07:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she didn't act impulsively.  I had her sit down and we talked about exactly what she was saying if/when she ran away.
Jul 24 06:07:10 2016 <Z-Man>	I would not usually say that, but yeah, getting drunk does not sound like the worst idea.
Jul 24 06:07:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I opened the door for her and let her go.  I'm a free software junkiie.
Jul 24 06:08:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Anyway, we had a talk, and the only reason we were able to have the talk is because I promised her I'd let her go if she intended to leave, and she trusted me.  I didn't betray that trust.
Jul 24 06:09:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Considering the cirumstances, if she does want to come back in a (currently undetermined) period of time, i will actually take her back
Jul 24 06:10:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she only gets one chance at it.  She's theoretically used up that chance, but because the ER she went to would only discharge her to me, she gets a little bit of a gain
Jul 24 06:10:50 2016 *	theocrite (~Jean-Mari@creteil-equinoxe.fr) has joined #armagetron
Jul 24 06:10:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	not that I told her.  I won't be the parent of a chronic runaway.  If you runaway from my home, you're on your own.
Jul 24 06:11:24 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	That's a deliberate decision you made, and I don't care how impulsive you may have felt.  You runaway, you're on your own.
Jul 24 06:12:13 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I won't block you from anything, I won't be that asshole.  If you're under 18, I will show up and give copies of the documents you need to get a job.  I'll  make sure you're enrolled in High School so you can get your education.
Jul 24 06:12:21 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I won't stand in your way.  I just won't.
Jul 24 06:12:37 2016 <Z-Man>	Best you can do, really.
Jul 24 06:13:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	she'll never appreciate me.  Period.  She won't appreciate what I did for her while she was here, and she definitely won't appreciate how I will help her when she's not here.
Jul 24 06:14:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but becoming a parent isn't about getting appreciation from your kid.  It's not about that at all.  You do what is right for your kid, and that's what becoming a parent is all about.
Jul 24 06:14:56 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Exactly what that means can vary quite a bit, and there's no hard standard on what's right for the kid.
Jul 24 06:15:18 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	 But it's not about getting appreciation.
Jul 24 06:16:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	kindof like developing arma.  We're not in it for appreciation.  It's nice when we get it (and we get it often), but it's not why we do it.
Jul 24 06:17:34 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So, for me, at my kid's age and with the choices she's made, I'll have to continue to support her from the shadows.  That's what I can do.
Jul 24 06:18:12 2016 <Z-Man>	Heh, now I imagine you as Bat-Dad.
Jul 24 06:18:27 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	The step-daughter has said straight out that she loves the deal she has here.  Do one chore a day and she gets all sorts of free shit.  And until she finishes high school, that's it.
Jul 24 06:18:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Bat-Dad?
Jul 24 06:18:48 2016 <Z-Man>	Batman. As a dad.
Jul 24 06:18:55 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'll raise up the bat signal and expect her to answer it and beat the bad guy?
Jul 24 06:19:26 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	oh wait, you're under the misconception that  Bruce Wayne ever got laid, aren't you?
Jul 24 06:19:53 2016 <Z-Man>	Well, no :)
Jul 24 06:20:28 2016 <Z-Man>	Though apparently, he did bang catwoman in at least one terrible Frank Miller comic.
Jul 24 06:20:44 2016 *	Z-Man does not read comics, but watches Linkara's riffs on them
Jul 24 06:21:06 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't read comics, I read um, there's a website that's all about fandom ( I hate that I've used that word)
Jul 24 06:21:49 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I tried reading comics when I was a teenager.  I really tried, I wanted to read them and love them, so I gave them a serious honest try.  I hated them.
Jul 24 06:22:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't currently hate them for dumb reasons like "only nerds read them" or anything stupid like that.  I respect peple who enjoy that art form.  Well, I respect them enjoying the art form, at least.  They can be assholes.
Jul 24 06:22:39 2016 <Z-Man>	My wife's dad had a collection of really weird Belgian ones. I should claim them someday.
Jul 24 06:23:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Not Portuguese?  Or at least broken Spanish?  (Your wife can slap me for that one, I'm giving her permission)
Jul 24 06:24:40 2016 <Z-Man>	Oh, I don't know which language they're printed in. Could be either French or Portuguese.
Jul 24 06:26:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You know, there's a way to use the umulators to play a network game
Jul 24 06:26:18 2016 <Z-Man>	And heh, all groups have their fair share of assholes. Doesn't matter what non-asshole related pre-filters you apply.
Jul 24 06:26:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	i short, we could muster up a MULE game here
Jul 24 06:26:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	yese, I know that assholes exist.  I prove that statement pretty often, doncha know.  ;)
Jul 24 06:27:22 2016 <Z-Man>	Sadly, I'm on the old half-broken laptop that probably would completely melt if I even think about running any game.
Jul 24 06:27:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I also show that people who are assholes aren't 2 dimensional.  They might actually hae other thoughts and feelings and shit.
Jul 24 06:27:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	8 bit game.  You'd onlyl have to run the emulator.
Jul 24 06:28:15 2016 <Z-Man>	(The tablet is still displayless. I wanted to break it apart today and reassemble it. That's about all I know how to do, sometimes.)
Jul 24 06:28:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	but, I'm not asking you to play it NOW, I'm asking you to take a few minutes at some pint in the near future and be ready to play it
Jul 24 06:29:01 2016 <Z-Man>	Ah, I'll try. In theory, I have the raspi prepared. I just don't know how well.
Jul 24 06:29:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Because it would be a SHIT-TON of fun for you and me and my two boys to all play this game together.
Jul 24 06:29:55 2016 <Z-Man>	I think I only played two round of it so far.
Jul 24 06:30:10 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	of MULE?
Jul 24 06:30:11 2016 <Z-Man>	Like, rounds in the game. Not complete games.
Jul 24 06:30:14 2016 <Z-Man>	yeah.
Jul 24 06:30:37 2016 <Z-Man>	Which 8-bit system are you using?
Jul 24 06:30:40 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we need to work on that.  Also, how the fuck did you grow up without playing it?
Jul 24 06:30:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm using the C64 emulator for it
Jul 24 06:31:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it was written for like the Apple IIE or something like that.
Jul 24 06:31:19 2016 <Z-Man>	I only played a couple of sessons on friends C64s; I myself got straight to the Amiga 500.
Jul 24 06:31:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	ironically, the lead developer transitioned from male to female, and then didn't like that.  She (originallyl he, as credited in the game) ultiamtely died of lung cancer
Jul 24 06:31:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you were an amiga nerd?  Really?
Jul 24 06:32:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I was totally amiga!
Jul 24 06:32:10 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I got Ebonstar!
Jul 24 06:32:18 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Shadow of the Beast!
Jul 24 06:32:23 2016 <Z-Man>	Yep. Still got one.
Jul 24 06:32:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	man, that was such a fucking awesome compute
Jul 24 06:32:35 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you have one, in real life?  No emulator?
Jul 24 06:32:40 2016 <Z-Man>	Yep.
Jul 24 06:32:48 2016 <Z-Man>	No monitor to attach it to, though.
Jul 24 06:33:10 2016 <Z-Man>	I think I could now sneak it under the living room TV again.
Jul 24 06:33:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	A500 or something with the AGA?
Jul 24 06:33:30 2016 <Z-Man>	Nah, the old A500 with the 500kb memory expansion.
Jul 24 06:33:40 2016 *	Z-Man almost wrote 500Mb there, hah
Jul 24 06:33:48 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So Workbench 1.3
Jul 24 06:33:53 2016 <Z-Man>	yes.
Jul 24 06:33:55 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Kickstart 1.3, that's what I meant
Jul 24 06:34:04 2016 <Z-Man>	well, both.
Jul 24 06:34:14 2016 <Z-Man>	The one I had as a kid was 1.2.
Jul 24 06:34:24 2016 <Z-Man>	I can't remember the difference any more :/
Jul 24 06:34:26 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	yeah, I used the shit out of workbench 1.3.  I learned how to program in C with it.
Jul 24 06:34:46 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't remember the difference either.  I think it had something to do with clicking on drawers.
Jul 24 06:35:25 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't really remember.  We had 1.2, then we upgraded to 1.3 (my dad was an electrical engineer in the air force, so he said we needed to upgrade and we......)
Jul 24 06:35:43 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we didn't upgrade kickstart, because that was ROM
Jul 24 06:36:20 2016 <Z-Man>	It was socketed, so you could even updgade that. Was expensive, though.
Jul 24 06:36:30 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we dodm
Jul 24 06:36:33 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	er
Jul 24 06:36:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	(fingers where they should be)
Jul 24 06:36:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	we didn't upgrade that.  We upgraded RAM, and that was it.
Jul 24 06:37:15 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I've had to manuall declare kickstart 1.3 for games I want to emulate
Jul 24 06:37:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	My youngest, Julian, goddamn he's an awesome kid who loves video games (he' been playing arma).  He wants to play Ebonstar with me.
Jul 24 06:37:59 2016 <Z-Man>	Heh, we had this one game I love for no good reason except that it was one of the first we had, 'Fairy Tale Adventure'
Jul 24 06:38:15 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Now, keep in mind that after I have defeated him in one 8-bit game after another, he still wants to play with me.
Jul 24 06:38:15 2016 <Z-Man>	The memory upgrade broke it, so we had to take it out every time
Jul 24 06:38:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Fairy Tale Adventure?  Man, that game was a ripoff
Jul 24 06:38:49 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	it was a shitty DOS port of the game
Jul 24 06:39:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	We, um, *cough* acquired our own copy and played it.
Jul 24 06:39:47 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Look, among the reasons I love free software, I don't have to pirate software.  That matters to me.  It also wasn't always the situation.
Jul 24 06:40:06 2016 <Z-Man>	Yeah, that's one thing to love.
Jul 24 06:40:27 2016 <Z-Man>	Gotta run now, we need to go swimming.
Jul 24 06:40:45 2016 <Z-Man>	quasselcore will keep listening to you :)
Jul 24 06:40:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So that.  Thank you for being here for me.  The conversation may not have been what you thought, but fuck it.
Jul 24 06:41:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Thank you.
Jul 24 06:41:18 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Now, go do your swimming thing.
Jul 24 06:42:22 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Also, now I know you're an old Amiga person, and that explains a lot.  You have no idea how much I learned from that, other than what you'e learned about me because you just learned this aaabout me.
Jul 24 06:48:55 2016 <Z-Man>	Too meta! :) cya.
Jul 24 06:51:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Z-Man: Enjoy your day.  I need to avoid certain levels of contact, so if I try to talk to you further today, you should probably ignore me.  You know, emotions and shit.
Jul 24 06:51:12 2016 <guru3>	Lucifer_arma: not sure what to say other than sounds like that sucks all around :/
Jul 24 06:51:20 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Enjoy your day, do what your'e going to do, etc.
Jul 24 06:53:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	guru3: yes, ti sucks all around.  In my commeent, I was fishing for emotional support that I really needed at that time.  Um, I think we're past that time.   So, I'm past the emotional crisis I was personally in.
Jul 24 06:54:04 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	(I made sure to make statements about being suicidal and my relative safety)
Jul 24 06:54:43 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I can talk, I want to talk, I want to hear what you have to say.
Jul 24 06:54:47 2016 <guru3>	I'm glad you're sounding (reading? writing?) better
Jul 24 06:55:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm a bit drunker, so I should be fucking up what I write a lot more
Jul 24 06:55:22 2016 <guru3>	that's alright
Jul 24 06:55:33 2016 <guru3>	it's the internet after all
Jul 24 06:56:16 2016 <guru3>	reading the many other posts/articles of far, far less articulate people trains one to ignore the little things
Jul 24 06:56:30 2016 <guru3>	which makes purposefully trying to write good stuff very difficult :/
Jul 24 06:57:17 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	you don't have tp write anything in particular.  IN fact, if you don't feel qualfiied, you can just say so.  I won't judge you.  I promise.  I love you, I won't judge you.
Jul 24 06:57:42 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	however.....
Jul 24 06:58:09 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I think you do have something to offer.  You still have the option to bail.  You always have that choce.
Jul 24 06:58:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	*choice*
Jul 24 06:58:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So,  your call on what we talk about, how deep we talk, blah.
Jul 24 06:59:09 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Keep in mind that I've gone in depth with several other people
Jul 24 06:59:43 2016 <guru3>	I'm not particularly qualified to comment on your situation on the basis that I'm not a parent and have no younger syblings, and when I was a teenager was not that sort of kid
Jul 24 06:59:58 2016 <guru3>	but I can just talk about random stuff if you'd like to have a random conversation
Jul 24 06:59:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm out of crisis, and I'm back to the ruthless Lucifer you expext me to be
Jul 24 07:00:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm ok.  I appreciate that you're willing to be there and say something.  I really appreciate that.
Jul 24 07:01:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm out of crisis, and you don't need to hang around and take care of me. I'm out of crisis.
Jul 24 07:02:02 2016 <guru3>	right-o
Jul 24 07:02:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	And no, if you walk away from here figurig I'm not in crisis, I will NOT turn around and kill myself.  You're safe to walk away.
Jul 24 07:02:23 2016 <guru3>	well, I was planning to be sat in front of my PC for the next few hours regardless
Jul 24 07:02:43 2016 <guru3>	gargh
Jul 24 07:02:46 2016 <guru3>	things are hard to write
Jul 24 07:02:58 2016 <guru3>	I'm happy to leave you alone or talk as you wish, and I'm here if needed
Jul 24 07:02:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm sure we can do something if we want to, except I'm near pass-out drunk.
Jul 24 07:03:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm glad  you're here, and I knew that you were here a little while ago when you said "Hey, I'm here!"
Jul 24 07:03:58 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I appreciate that.  That was why I made a point of saying I'm noto in crisis.
Jul 24 07:04:24 2016 <guru3>	you're good like that
Jul 24 07:04:53 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	So, long story short, I'm a bit drunk, I've had a LOT of drama happen today (my kid ran away), and I'm probably not going to be able to go into detail because I'll be passing out soon
Jul 24 07:05:20 2016 <guru3>	I back read a good chunk before I replied, so don't sweat the details
Jul 24 07:05:59 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I reached out for help here, and I got Z-man, and we determined that he used to use a 16-bit computer that happened to be a commodore amiga 500, and that explains alot of things that I won't go into now.
Jul 24 07:06:24 2016 <guru3>	the 8-bit and 16-bit stuff was sadly a bit before my time
Jul 24 07:06:30 2016 <guru3>	which often really annoys me
Jul 24 07:06:36 2016 <guru3>	because it's all a lot of fun
Jul 24 07:07:12 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	good games, and your age doesn't matter.  My 12-yo (who hasn't run away) love these games.
Jul 24 07:08:19 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You know, these are all games you'd loe.  Get the emulator, let's work out the  thing, and play the games.
Jul 24 07:08:25 2016 <guru3>	I did have my amiga phase a few years ago
Jul 24 07:09:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	How is it that Z-man and I both grow up with Amiga 500s, and with the free softare thing, and we get here and YOU don't know any of htis?
Jul 24 07:09:10 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Obiously you do.
Jul 24 07:09:52 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I get that uou're younger than me, but man, you know.  But how do we get at that knowledge.  How do we make it matter?
Jul 24 07:10:01 2016 <guru3>	I was never very heavily invested into it. When it was the real hardware era for that stuff I was just a little bit too young and didn't know where to look.
Jul 24 07:10:33 2016 <guru3>	I came on the emulation scene for it a little bit too early, before it was the cool thing to do and that made it technically difficult. I hadn't started using linux as a desktop at that point.
Jul 24 07:11:03 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Ok, I'm getting mystical at this pint, and I'm drunk.....  Ok, I'm stippig there
Jul 24 07:11:28 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	You were 16 when I met you, and you were using Linux as a desktop
Jul 24 07:11:40 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	or you were llying (which is ok, all things considered)
Jul 24 07:11:43 2016 <guru3>	Yeah. But my emulator phase was when I was around 12.
Jul 24 07:12:07 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	ah, my emulator phase hasn't stoppped
Jul 24 07:12:11 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	because it's not a phase
Jul 24 07:12:12 2016 <guru3>	I'd only messed with linux a tiny little bit at that point.
Jul 24 07:12:55 2016 <guru3>	Maybe I was 13?
Jul 24 07:13:14 2016 <guru3>	Maybe 11? Hard to recall. I was loving the shit out of Emerald Mine though.
Jul 24 07:13:20 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I don't know.  You were 16 when I met you..
Jul 24 07:13:31 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Emerald Mine was fucking awesome.
Jul 24 07:13:57 2016 <guru3>	About the only thing I played on the (emulated) Amiga in the end.
Jul 24 07:14:07 2016 <guru3>	But I spent a lot of hours on it.
Jul 24 07:14:36 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	Mind you, in  your CAS stuff,  you might have admitted to a different age, but I dint' care nor track it.  I did what I had to to help you finish, and that's all there is for me.
Jul 24 07:14:54 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	there's a Linux game that gives the same game.
Jul 24 07:15:03 2016 <guru3>	yeah, that's what I started with.
Jul 24 07:15:18 2016 <guru3>	But that just led me to dig deeper.
Jul 24 07:15:34 2016 <guru3>	Heh. Pun un-intended.
Jul 24 07:15:41 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	And Emerald Mine is a fantastic game
Jul 24 07:15:44 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and fuck your puns
Jul 24 07:15:51 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	intended or not
Jul 24 07:16:08 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	did you get a chance to play it as a coop game?
Jul 24 07:16:44 2016 <guru3>	Yeah. With my sister some.
Jul 24 07:17:23 2016 <guru3>	I found the game in my early experiments with RH7, and we played together then some.
Jul 24 07:17:32 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	some?  I assume she wasn't in any way dedicated to trying to get to the end (which is probably a worthless endeavor)
Jul 24 07:17:46 2016 <guru3>	No, she was super into it as well.
Jul 24 07:17:51 2016 <guru3>	More than I was at that point.
Jul 24 07:18:09 2016 <guru3>	I fell in love with it more later on with the Amiga version, but she destroyed the Linux version.
Jul 24 07:18:16 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	ok, then I'll leave it at that
Jul 24 07:18:33 2016 <guru3>	At least, to the best of my memory. It was a long time ago now.
Jul 24 07:18:45 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	The Linux version is crap, afaics
Jul 24 07:19:05 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	nononono, the linux ersion is stil crap.  as far as I can see.
Jul 24 07:19:31 2016 <guru3>	I think you can load up the original level set somehow?
Jul 24 07:20:00 2016 <guru3>	I know it was definetely better back then than it is now.
Jul 24 07:20:03 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I can steal the ROMS, disk images, whatever.  I can do that.
Jul 24 07:20:08 2016 <guru3>	(the Linux version)
Jul 24 07:20:14 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I'm a pirate, btw.
Jul 24 07:20:21 2016 <guru3>	Arrrr.
Jul 24 07:20:50 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	yeah, when the MPAA or the RIAA raids this project, y'all get to run off and hide
Jul 24 07:21:01 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	and you better warn me, because daumn, please, warn me
Jul 24 07:21:10 2016 *	guru3 makes a note
Jul 24 07:23:02 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I need to break away.  I'm about to drink some more in a way that I just need to get away and cut off contact with the outside world.
Jul 24 07:23:19 2016 <guru3>	take care
Jul 24 07:23:40 2016 <Lucifer_arma>	I will.  You take care as well.
Jul 24 07:24:24 2016 <guru3>	thanks
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 24 22:57:04 2016
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 24 22:57:34 2016
Jul 24 22:57:34 2016 *	Now talking on #armagetron
Jul 24 22:57:34 2016 *	Topic for #armagetron is: http://www.armagetronad.org/ | pastebin: http://armagetron.pastebin.com/ | Tournaments: #armagetron.tourneys | Pickup a game: #armagetron.pickup
Jul 24 22:57:34 2016 *	Topic for #armagetron set by guru3 at Wed Apr 22 16:50:50 2015

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