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Log from 2009-06-28:
--- Day changed Sun Jun 28 2009
00:03 -!- MrBougo [n=MrBougo@91.181.120.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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00:24 <Flex> G5, hope that was fine using the server like that.. when we joined it was empty, and everyone that joined came for a "special" match
00:25 <Flex> K-Yo offered a server, but i said it was fine, as we weren't going to kick or control the server.
00:26 <Flex> only when you came, we assumed to make it more organised, ect.
00:27 <G5> Flex: Sure. That's what servers are for ...
00:42 -!- solete [n=sol@217-162-255-30.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #armagetron
00:51 <Vanhayes> #as
00:51 <armabot> Vanhayes: This data is 27 seconds old; ~|DS|~DarkSyndicate's Mega Fortress (16/32), [] Cheers! [] The friendly server. (10/12), -=VcL.Clan High Rubber (9/10), Wild West =Capture The Flag= (8/10), ~Night Walker's Central~Loose DF~ (8/8), The YELLOW Submarine (8/12), |FA| Black Tar! (5/16), Wild West =CTF Shooting= (5/10), ~~M0$t Wànt3d~~ (4/16), - [ Nano's Playground | Nano Standard ] - (1 more message)
00:58 -!- Flex [n=savas@unaffiliated/flex] has quit ["bye"]
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00:59 <Lucifer> baaaaaaaaah!
01:10 <madmax> whaaaaaaaaaa?
01:14 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lckdscl@ip202-29-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #armagetron
01:16 <K-Yo> baaaaaaaaaaah
01:18 <PinkTomato> naaaaaaaaaaah!
01:21 <Lucifer> lalalaaaa lililiiiiii
01:21 <Lucifer> !
01:22 <PinkTomato> lu lu lu
01:25 <solete> eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh?
01:26 -!- solete [n=sol@217-162-255-30.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["IRC it was"]
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01:26 <Vanhayes> did everyone just have a stroke or something?
01:26 <sinewav> :o
01:27 -!- K-Yo [n=k-yo@unaffiliated/k-yo] has joined #armagetron
01:30 <Lucifer> something
01:31 * Lucifer needs to juggle some more, heh
01:32 * sinewav will now go to the gym.
01:32 -!- sinewav is now known as sine_awave
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01:36 <madmax> did you quite smoking yet Lucifer?
01:37 <epsy> I quite quietly quit smoking
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01:45 <Luke-Jr> ]admin ignore add *!*@@ip-167.net-89-3-104.rev.numericable.fr
01:46 <Luke-Jr> ]admin ignore add *!*@ip-167.net-89-3-104.rev.numericable.fr
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03:49 <Flex> what's so good about CentOS
03:50 <epsy> it's because ct|kyle uses it
03:50 <Flex> any good?
03:51 <ct|kyle> epsy: no I don't
03:52 <ct|kyle> Flex: it's crap
03:52 <Flex> CentOS or Fedora?
03:52 <epsy> hah
03:52 <ct|kyle> heh
03:52 <Flex> (better one?)
03:52 <ct|kyle> they are the same
03:52 <ct|kyle> essentually
03:53 <ct|kyle> I did just try fedora when 11 came out
03:53 <ct|kyle> I have to keep up with the products from the company I invest in :P
03:58 -!- epsy [n=epsy@unaffiliated/epsy] has quit ["Ragequit."]
04:07 <ct|kyle> Flex: what do you want it for?
04:07 <Flex> just wondering.. read someone it was good
04:07 <Flex> is it better than debian?
04:08 <Flex> strickly hosting
04:23 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-147-102.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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04:26 <Sticky__> Flex: ill pay you £100 if you can tell a diff between them from the command line
04:26 <ct|kyle> heh
04:27 <ct|kyle> I missed all of Flex's replies
04:27 <Luke-Jr> ……..
04:27 <Luke-Jr> Sticky__: make me the offer!
04:27 <Flex> haha
04:27 <Sticky__> nope
04:27 <Sticky__> this challenge is for mear linux mortals...ie not you
04:28 <Flex> like you would pay
04:28 <ct|kyle> how long does the challenge last for?
04:28 <Sticky__> tbf you will notice the differance when it comes to package installation. outside that not really
04:29 <Flex> but i'm talking about performance
04:29 <Sticky__> naa you wont notice that at all
04:30 <ct|kyle> about the same, and debian is better than those at least cent and fedora is a bigger pig than cent
04:32 <Sticky__> if your worried about performance go for gentoo...cos hours of crying and 100 hours of down time a week while it compiles itself is so worth it for a 1% speed boost
04:33 <ct|kyle> that reminds me I need to reinstall gentoo
04:33 * Sticky__ hands ct|kyle some tisues
04:34 <ct|kyle> no need, just need a jar of cookies for emerge kde-base
04:34 <ct|kyle> kde-meta*
04:34 <Flex> how's it going Sticky__?
04:35 <Flex> why aren't you out!
04:35 <Sticky__> not bad
04:35 <ct|kyle> that only takes about 3 hours I think noe
04:35 <Sticky__> im out and proud
04:35 <ct|kyle> maybe 4
04:35 <Flex> i'd go for debian anyway
04:36 <Sticky__> Flex: actualy temporaraly back at parents before moving to london
04:36 <Flex> moving to london? i thought you were here already
04:37 <Sticky__> naa
04:37 <Sticky__> just a frequent visitor
04:37 <Flex> i see
04:39 <ct|kyle> Sticky__: if you still have that extra box of tissues send them to sine_awave
04:39 <Sticky__> whats he doing?
04:40 <Luke-Jr> Sticky__: FUD
04:40 <Luke-Jr> there is no downtime for Gentoo
04:41 -!- sine_awave is now known as sinewav
04:41 <sinewav> ct|kyle: LOL!
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04:41 <ct|kyle> Sticky__: getting beat
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05:04 <dubStep> Flex: !
05:04 <Flex> yeah?
05:05 <dubStep> hi
05:05 <dubStep> ^^
05:05 <Flex> hello
05:05 <Flex> switch the virgin.. bt sucks
05:06 <dubStep> meh
05:06 <Flex> just check out the pricing.. much better
05:07 <dubStep> yea but my mom is like blah about it
05:07 <dubStep> meh il think about it
05:07 <dubStep> its just a game lol
05:08 <Flex> i'm not talking about just armagetron.. i'm talking about your general internet.. it's cheaper and better
05:09 <dubStep> hmm k
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05:35 <dlh> I wonder if it is possible for launchpad to be any slower than it is now.
05:49 <ct|kyle> probably
05:56 <armabot> armacommits: [armagetronad-old-glancing] r765 Merge from trunk... || [trunk-armagetronad-work] r916 When showing completion possibilities use the correct result...
06:24 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r9234 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (. src/ui/uMenu.cpp): Daniel Lee Harple: When showing completion possibilities use the correct result, which could be the simplified version. Fixes bug #373907.
06:26 <Flex> ct|kyle
06:26 <Flex> i time out trying to join.. log doesn't say anything apart from killing the user.. any ideas?
06:28 <ct|kyle> Flex: on what?
06:28 <Flex> on what, what
06:28 <Flex> arma server
06:29 <Flex> [0] Waiting for real players (only spectators online)...
06:29 <Flex> [0] User 2 timed out.
06:29 <Flex> [2] Killing user 2, ping 1.25.
06:29 <ct|kyle> what server
06:30 <Flex> mine
06:33 <ct|kyle> not sure
06:33 <Lucifer> it appears I've been invited to juggle/fire dance to an event tomorrow
06:35 <Luke-Jr> yandere in #anime
06:35 <Lucifer> Flex: maybe it's your router
06:35 <Lucifer> did you try connecting to localhost? (Is it running on the same machine as your client?)
06:35 <Flex> no, different machine
06:35 <Flex> sticky can't connect either, same issue
06:37 <ct|kyle> servers net is extreamly slow?
06:38 <Lucifer> disable any running firewalls yet?
06:38 -!- ct|kyle [n=kyle@pool-71-97-147-102.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
06:38 <Lucifer> I had weird problems with ipmasq
06:38 <Luke-Jr> …
06:39 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer: ipmasq was Linux 2.2
06:39 <Lucifer> Luke-Jr: then why is it shipped with ubuntu?
06:39 <Luke-Jr> Lucifer: it's not...
06:39 <Luke-Jr> wait, I'm thinking ipchains
06:39 * Lucifer wasn't just invited to go, was invited to put out a tip jar and stuff :)
06:39 <Luke-Jr> wtf is 'ipmasq'?
06:39 <Lucifer> firewall/router thingee
06:39 <Lucifer> I installed it trying to setup my computer as a router
06:40 <Luke-Jr> that's iptables
06:40 <Lucifer> it's why my desktop stopped working
06:40 <Lucifer> no, there's another one
06:40 <Lucifer> wait, maybe its dnsmasq
06:40 <Lucifer> no, it's ipmasq
06:41 <Lucifer> wow, that's the fastest anybody's ever clicked something around one of my status updates
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06:48 <dubStep> oi
07:08 <sinewav> oi
07:12 <Lucifer> maybe one of you guys has better google skills than I do
07:12 <Lucifer> I'm trying to find a pioneer museum on volente rd, might be either in austin tx or cedar park tx
07:14 <dubStep> only one i see is in Fredericksburg
07:21 <Flex> Ahhhhh
07:21 <Flex> why doesn't this work :(
07:22 <Flex> where is server_info.cfg
07:23 <Flex> is there a readme for isntalling arma on debian?
07:24 <Luke-Jr> "aptitude install armagetronad"
07:24 <Flex> already got it installed
07:24 <Flex> running, too..
07:25 <Flex> i think
07:25 <Flex> and i'm talking about a server, not client
07:25 <Flex> Luke-Jr
07:25 <Luke-Jr> "aptitude install armagetronad-dedicated"
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07:29 <Flex> k, now Luke-Jr?
07:39 <Luke-Jr> now it's installed
07:41 <Flex> yeah, i time out trying to join.
07:41 <Flex> checked the port, it works fine
07:53 <dlh> Flex: did you use the init.d script to start it? Or are you just running armagetronad-dedicated to test?
07:53 <Flex> yeah, i used that
07:54 <dlh> Make sure you really are connecting the to right port... look for a line like this in the logs "Bound socket to *.*.*.*:4534", where 4534 is the right port
07:54 <Flex> yup, i checked that
07:54 <Flex> correct port
07:54 <dlh> anything else in the log file?
07:54 <Flex> no nothing weird.. just shows user joining, then it kills user
07:55 <Flex> while client side is a simple time out
07:55 <dlh> iptables -L
07:55 <dlh> Maybe your firewall is blocking it
07:56 <Flex> i was going to start again, but let me check that
07:58 <dlh> Flex: paste the logs for when a user tries to join
08:00 <Flex> k, give me a sec, getting it
08:01 <Flex> dlh
08:01 <Flex> this is what i was getting
08:01 <Flex> http://pastebin.com/d455ee1b1
08:02 <dlh> What does iptables -L look like?
08:03 <Flex> (policy ACCEPT)
08:03 <Flex> on 3 of them
08:06 <Flex> urm dlh, apart from "ARMAGETRONAD_SERVER_START=1"
08:06 <Flex> do i have to change anything else?
08:10 <Lucifer> grrr, why can't I find this website I was just looking at on another computer?
08:10 <Flex> because my server don't work!!
08:17 <Lucifer> http://www.pioneerfarms.org/location/ <-- this is what I was looking at earlier, but that's not in the location I was told it should be in
08:17 -!- mode/#armagetron [+o Lucifer] by ChanServ
08:17 -!- Lucifer changed the topic of #armagetron to: Latest Version: 0.2.8.2.1 | http://www.armagetronad.net/ | Gentoo? layman -ka armagetron | pastebin: http://rafb.net/paste/ | Logs: http://wrtlprnft.ath.cx/armalogs/ | Tournaments: #armagetron.tourneys
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10:07 <Flex> how was your sleep?
10:07 <akira_arma> ......
10:08 <Flex> waaat!
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18:06 <armabot> armacommits: [trunk-armagetronad-work] r918 Removed debug output.... || [trunk-armagetronad-work] r917 Don't show splash on OS X after handling a URL event
18:10 -!- sine_awave is now known as sinewav
18:30 <Flex> dlh, g5, K-Yo, Lackadaisical, madmax, noob13, sinewav, Vanhayes
18:30 <Flex> come test a server!
18:30 <Lackadaisical> where?
18:30 <madmax> what?
18:30 <Flex> flex's test server: fortress
18:31 <Lackadaisical> is it special?
18:31 <Flex> yes!
18:31 <Flex> 16vs16 as the test!
18:31 <PinkTomato> #si flex
18:31 <armabot> PinkTomato: Flex's Test Server: Fortress: Players (7/32): .×] Durka (DDMJ@forums), .×] Liza (Liza@x/member), Flex (Flex@forums), footo9000, Player 1, preStige, ~*PsYkO*~
18:33 <dlh> #sd -v flex
18:33 <armabot> dlh: Flex's Test Server: Fortress (91.121.193.184:4534) running 0.2.8_alpha20090628 unix dedicated, url: http://flex.armagetron.co.uk, Description: ““, Players (10/32): .x]D¡mb, .×] Durka (DDMJ@forums), .×] Liza (Liza@x/member), dubStep (dubStep@ct), enigmA, Flex (Flex@forums), Player 1, preStige, user, ~*PsYkO*~
18:34 <Flex> commmeee
18:34 <Flex> you useless people
18:35 <madmax> it's normal fort but 16vs16
18:35 <madmax> ?
18:35 <Flex> pretty much
18:36 <PinkTomato> #si cafe
18:36 <armabot> PinkTomato: Fortress Café: Players (9/32): -=VcL.Student, -»|olive, -»|þsy, .×] Hoax, GNU/Linux, NayP, peed, °Bs°| Theroze, °ß$°|MµtH
18:36 <PinkTomato> cafe is 32 as well.
18:36 <madmax> slots, not players
18:37 <madmax> max is 9vs9
18:37 <PinkTomato> Oh
18:37 <Flex> madmax join?
18:38 <madmax> I'm sort of busy, if you had said ramps and flying circles...
18:38 -!- PinkTomato is now known as nobody
18:38 <Flex> oh.. i forgot there's like.. urm these zones
18:38 -!- nobody is now known as PinkTomato
18:38 <madmax> :-O
18:42 <PinkTomato> #si Flex -d
18:42 <armabot> PinkTomato: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “flex -d” at the moment, sorry.
18:42 <PinkTomato> #sd Flex -d
18:42 <armabot> PinkTomato: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “flex -d” at the moment, sorry.
18:42 <PinkTomato> #sd Flex
18:42 <armabot> PinkTomato: Flex's Test Server: Fortress: Players (14/32): -=VçL.ViRµS, .x]D¡mb, .×] Durka (DDMJ@forums), .×] Liza (Liza@x/member), dubStep (dubStep@ct), Flex (Flex@forums), free kill (dlh@generalconsumption.org), gArIsImO, Pink Tomatoes (Pink\_Tomatoes@forums), Player 1, preStige, user, ~*Delta*~, ~*PsYkO*~ (~*PsYkO*~@forums)
18:43 <ct|kyle> .ctwf
18:43 <tronner> ct|kyle: Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress.: Players (6/14): 123456789012345, chochin, i have a f cold, lag (lag@ct), Ptboi, St_Rain (St_Rain@ct)
19:16 -!- joda_bot [n=anonymou@84.61.26.43] has quit ["Leaving."]
19:19 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r9235 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Daniel Lee Harple: Don't show splash on OS X after handling a URL event
19:20 <armabot> armagetronad: bazaarmagetron * r9236 /armagetronad/trunk/armagetronad/ (. src/tron/gArmagetron.cpp): Daniel Lee Harple: Removed debug output.
19:30 <Vanhayes> #si test
19:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: tronners->testing: Players (0/10):
19:30 <Vanhayes> #as
19:30 <armabot> Vanhayes: This data is 2 seconds old; Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress. (12/14), The YELLOW Submarine (10/12), Wild West =Team Sumo= (8/20), WILDCAT (7/8), [] Cheers! [] The friendly server. (7/12), Fortress (16 vs 16) (7/32), - | D u r k a D u r k a L a n d | - (6/16), Wild West =Capture The Flag Advanced!= (6/12), Afrothunder's High Rubber (6/10), |FA| Black Tar! (4/16), Wild West =Capture The (2 more messages)
19:31 <Vanhayes> any chance you can get lead poisoning from scraping paint?
19:31 <Vanhayes> scraping paint off a veranda built in 1870s*
19:34 <Flex> :o
19:34 <Flex> wear masks for shit that's old..
19:34 <Flex> don't mess around, it's not funny
19:39 <Vanhayes> well i was told it was only 20 years old, but that was the back part, where i wasnt scraping
19:39 <Vanhayes> amazing house, they are selling it for 500 000 plus a tonne of land
19:40 <Vanhayes> it was built before there was even a real town here
19:42 <Vanhayes> what are the symptoms of lead poisoning?
19:43 <Vanhayes> cause i was really tired after i did it and lept for like 16 hours and am still tired
19:43 <Vanhayes> slept*
19:43 <Flex> really small particles, enough to breathe and get stuck in your lungs causing permanent respiratory problems.. forgot completely..
19:44 <Flex> that's what i'm talking about, regarding airborn particles.. not sure about the other
19:45 <Flex> anyway, sometimes when you sleep for that long, you still feel tired
19:46 <Vanhayes> well ya i did it for a few days last week too
19:46 <Flex> didn't your work provide you masks and proper equipment..
19:46 <Vanhayes> felt tired afterward then too, but i did alot more yesterday, pressure washed it and alot more came off
19:47 <Vanhayes> im sort of working for myself atm
19:47 <Flex> so get that shit!
19:47 <Vanhayes> doing oddjobs for cash
19:47 <Vanhayes> well i have all of it but never thought to use since i was told it was less then 20 yo
19:49 <Lucifer> heh, I'm going to go busking again
19:49 <Flex> if you feel you have lead poisoning.. see a doctor. don't guess..
19:50 <Vanhayes> meh im just tired dont feel too sick
19:50 <Vanhayes> need to go to a BBQ soon anyways, lead poisoning can wait
19:50 <Flex> long term damage is what the issue is here, mostly.. i think
19:51 <Vanhayes> heh, i even had a heavy duty industrial resperator here from when I was insulating
19:51 <Vanhayes> well, if they need any more scraping done ill just use that
19:51 <Flex> won't have too much of an effect if you're doing odd jobs
19:52 <Flex> if you're a smoker.. that's more high risk
19:52 <Flex> i think?
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20:47 <madmax> ok... USA winning against Brazil. something's wrong here
20:47 <PinkTomato> o_O
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20:55 <Flex> haha, good stuff
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21:00 <Lackadaisical> :O
21:00 <madmax> 2-0
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21:18 <epsy> sth is wrong
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22:10 <apparition> anyone know w33d's msn?
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23:13 <animuson> how can i access a file elsewhere on the server from a user's home directory? like accessing /etc/data from /home/admin
23:13 <animuson> (im using php)
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23:18 <epsy> fopen("/path/to/file", ...) ?
23:18 <animuson> i tried but it says cannot open file in /var/www
23:18 <animuson> it doesnt leave the directory :(
23:19 <epsy> can you give the full error?
23:19 <epsy> because that's usually the filepath where the error comes from
23:20 <animuson> Warning: fopen(/etc/cron.daily/www) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/animsuon/cron-test.php on line 19
23:21 <PinkTomato> animuson: ...
23:21 <PinkTomato> can't you even spell your name correctly...
23:21 <animuson> lol
23:21 <PinkTomato> sorry, that was rather rude :)
23:21 <animuson> noone ever sees that :P
23:22 * animuson slaps PinkTomato around a bit with a RedCabbage
23:28 <animuson> nothing?
23:31 <PinkTomato> animuson: ?
23:31 <animuson> tomato :P
23:32 <Luke-Jr> lolol
23:32 <Luke-Jr> animuson: that means the file doesn't exist
23:32 <Luke-Jr> fail
23:33 <animuson> no it means its not looking in /etc/cron.daily
23:33 <Luke-Jr> no, it means you fail
23:33 <animuson> the file exists im looking at it right now
23:34 <PinkTomato> ...
23:34 <PinkTomato> /animsuon/
23:34 <PinkTomato> do you really have a folder called animsuon?
23:34 <epsy> /home/animuson/ :D
23:34 <animuson> yea i mispelled it when i installed apache :P
23:34 <animuson> lol
23:34 <epsy> oh
23:34 <epsy> hahaha
23:34 <epsy> pwnt
23:35 <PinkTomato> animuson: does /etc/cron.daily/www exist?
23:35 <PinkTomato> is www a file?
23:36 <animuson> yea its a file
23:36 <PinkTomato> right.
23:36 <PinkTomato> ]dice
23:36 <ljrbot> PinkTomato: (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
23:36 <PinkTomato> ]dice 1d10
23:36 <ljrbot> PinkTomato: 6
23:36 <PinkTomato> Sorry animuson it was 6 rather than a 7
23:36 <animuson> the problem is its looking for /var/www/animsuon/etc/cron.daily instead of /etc/cron.daily
23:37 <PinkTomato> animuson: /etc/cron.daily/www
23:37 <PinkTomato> it can't open that file
23:37 <PinkTomato> cd /etc/cron.daily
23:37 <PinkTomato> ls -l
23:37 <PinkTomato> copy and paste the www line
23:38 <animuson> why?
23:38 <PinkTomato> because I think I know the problem, and I don't want to sound like an idiot if I'm wrong
23:38 <PinkTomato> so I can check before I say
23:39 <animuson> so what am i looking for?
23:39 <PinkTomato> cd /etc/cron.daily in a terminal
23:39 <PinkTomato> ls -l www
23:39 <PinkTomato> then paste the result of the www file
23:40 <animuson> -rw-r--r-- 1 admin root 5 Jun 29 01:39 www
23:40 <PinkTomato> OK.
23:40 <PinkTomato> and apache runs as what user?
23:40 <animuson> admin
23:40 <PinkTomato> hopefully not admin.
23:41 <PinkTomato> usually www-data
23:41 <PinkTomato> (for ubuntu)
23:41 <animuson> that user does not exist on my server :P
23:41 <PinkTomato> are you sure?
23:41 <animuson> i just used admin cause its easier for me to remember
23:41 <Luke-Jr> ……..
23:42 <PinkTomato> to me, I would check the permissions on the www file
23:42 <PinkTomato> wait,
23:42 <PinkTomato> it would still open it, unless you are openning it for writing
23:42 <animuson> no just for reading
23:43 <Luke-Jr> PinkTomato: it said file doesn't exist, not permission denied
23:43 <animuson> yea because its not going to the root before searching for /etc
23:43 <animuson> its starting at /var/www/animsuon and searching for /etc there
23:44 <PinkTomato> Luke-Jr: Hmm, I know, for some reason I remembered getting a file not found for incorrect permission.
23:44 <Luke-Jr> and you would know this how?
23:47 <PinkTomato> Luke-Jr: what if www-data user can't list the cron.daily folder?
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23:54 <PinkTomato> animuson: any luck?
23:54 <animuson> i think i figured it out
23:54 <animuson> apache limits a folder on the web
23:55 <animuson> to its home directory and the location for php
23:55 <animuson> so i just added /etc/cron.daily to the access lsit
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23:56 <PinkTomato> and it works?
23:56 <animuson> it doesnt error out nemore but it also doesnt do nething
23:56 <animuson> so i figure its a php error now
23:56 <animuson> something else
View entire month
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
----
This is an LLM-free zone. In general, I am unwilling to use (fight with) any form of "GenAI" to write code for me. So, for the forseeable future, everything on this site will continue to be written by a very silly goose (wait that's me honk honk) with some parts written by other humans as well (silly hu-mon) rather than any plausible-series-of-words token-eating machine. Even my libraries are out of date, and suddenly that's a good thing!
(Although the style has changed several times and content has been added and changed, the base of this site has barely been updated since 2015. But it Ain't Broke!)
This site is also occasionally tested with older browsers, but compatibility is not guarenteed. Although, if you have an old obscure browser and something isn't working that previously did, I guess you can tell me (nelg) about it...
Gridder
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