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Log from 2008-07-06:
--- Day changed Sun Jul 06 2008
00:04 <Flex> #echo $randomNick loves $randomNick
00:04 <armabot> guru3 loves noob7_away
00:04 <Flex> awww
00:05 <Flex> #echo $randomNick loves $randomNick
00:05 <armabot> noob7_away loves ct|kyle
00:05 <Flex> hey!
00:05 <Flex> #echo $randomNick hates $randomNick
00:05 <armabot> emmy_arma hates P4
00:05 <ct|kyle> LOL
00:05 <ct|kyle> i was going to do that
00:05 <Flex> #echo $randomNick hates $randomNick
00:05 <armabot> Lizmatic hates Monkey_arma
00:05 <Flex> hah :p
00:06 <Flex> #echo ct|kyle is gay with $randomNick
00:06 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick lkills $randomNick
00:06 <armabot> ct|kyle is gay with madmax
00:06 <armabot> akira_arma lkills Lizmatic
00:06 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick has a baby with $randomNick
00:06 <armabot> Lackadaisical has a baby with armabot
00:06 <Flex> lolol
00:07 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick is having sex with $randomNick
00:07 <armabot> Ttech is having sex with mkzelda
00:07 <Pathetique> o.0
00:07 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick loves luke-jr
00:07 <armabot> pippijn loves luke-jr
00:07 <luke-jr> /kickban ct|kyle
00:07 <pippijn> ?
00:07 <pippijn> wtf
00:08 <Flex> #echo $randomNick loves pippijn
00:08 <armabot> guru3 loves pippijn
00:08 <pippijn> great.
00:08 <pippijn> now I'm happy
00:08 <ct|kyle> luke-jr: i was trying to find someone that loves you
00:08 <Monkey_arma> flex OI!
00:09 <Flex> OI
00:09 <pippijn> V4L is great
00:09  * pippijn is on webcam with his girlfriend :-)
00:09 -!- emmy_arma [n=peiaeman@pc232133.static.is.airbites.ro] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:09 <Flex> sweet
00:09 <Flex> #echo $randomNick loves $randomNick
00:09 <armabot> luke-jr loves luke-jr
00:09 <Flex> haha
00:09 <ct|kyle> LOL
00:09 <pippijn> #echo pippijn loves carmen
00:09 <armabot> pippijn loves carmen
00:10 <Flex> #echo Flex loves $randomNick
00:10 <armabot> Flex loves tramshed
00:10 <ct|kyle> luke-jr loves luke-jr << i think that is the only valid result
00:10 <tramshed> ?
00:10 <Flex> i do...
00:10 <luke-jr> /kickban ct|kyle
00:10 <ct|kyle> when talking about luke-jr
00:10 <Flex> #echo luke-jr loves $randomNick
00:10 <armabot> luke-jr loves Pathetique
00:11 <Pathetique> woot!
00:11 <Lackadaisical> love is in the air
00:11  * Pathetique 's life is complete
00:11  * Pathetique can die happy now.
00:11 <Flex> #echo Lackadaisical loves $randomNick
00:11 <armabot> Lackadaisical loves akira_arma
00:11 <Lackadaisical> :O
00:12 <Lizmatic> #echo Lizmatic loves Lackadaisical
00:12 <armabot> Lizmatic loves Lackadaisical
00:12 <ct|kyle> #echo Flex loves $randomNick
00:12 <Lizmatic> :p
00:12 <armabot> Flex loves epsy
00:12 <Lizmatic> LOL!
00:12 <Flex> haha
00:12 <ct|kyle> heh
00:12 <Flex> £>
00:12 <Lizmatic> so true
00:12 <Flex> #ecko Lizmatic loves $randomNick
00:12 <Flex> urm
00:13 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick Loves Flex
00:13 <Flex> #ping
00:13 <armabot> tramshed Loves Flex
00:13 <armabot> pong
00:13 <ct|kyle> scko
00:13 <ct|kyle> ecko*
00:13 <Flex> oh
00:13 <Flex> lol
00:13 <Flex> right
00:13 <Lizmatic> haha
00:13 <Lizmatic> ecko
00:13 <Lizmatic> fail :P
00:13 <Flex> #echo Lizmatic loves $randomNick
00:13 <armabot> Lizmatic loves luke-jr
00:13 <ct|kyle> just like luke-jr
00:13 <guru3> epoch fail
00:13 <Lizmatic> leave my lover alone
00:13 <Flex> Lackadaisical and luke-jr.. liz
00:14 <Lizmatic> hihi
00:14 <Lizmatic> Lollipop!
00:14 <Flex> #echo Flex is going to shoot $randomNick
00:14 <armabot> Flex is going to shoot Lucifer
00:14 <Flex> knew it
00:15 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick loves $randomNick who loves $randomNick who hates $randomNick who has a baby with $randomNick
00:15 <Pathetique> Hey Liz, was the topic a little on the short side? cause I can beef it up if you like.
00:15 <armabot> madmax loves MaZuffeR who loves z-man-work who hates emphasis who has a baby with zmanuel
00:15 <Lizmatic> no its perfect path :)
00:15 <guru3> #echo Oo
00:15 <armabot> Oo
00:15 <guru3> heh
00:15 <Pathetique> ok, good. :)
00:16 -!- ivantis [i=3fe443da@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8870449bc9f2bb70] has joined #armagetron
00:16 <Flex> what topic Pathetique?
00:16 <Pathetique> On the .dBd forums.
00:16 <Flex> what's it regarding? :p
00:16 <epsy> :|
00:16 <Lizmatic> omg..
00:16 <Flex> lol
00:16 <Lizmatic> stop butting in for once :P
00:16 <Pathetique> Dun worry about it. It's taken care of. :)
00:16 <Flex> lol
00:16 <Lizmatic> #echo $randomNick told $randomNick that $randomNick cheated on $randomNick, obviously $randomNick and $randomNick got into a fight afterwards with $randomNick!
00:16 <armabot> g5vc told zmanuel that G5 cheated on madmax, obviously noob7_away and AshitakA got into a fight afterwards with madmax!
00:16 <ivantis> ivantis is back
00:17 <ivantis> hey Pathetique
00:17 <guru3> i swear that $randomNick is weighted
00:17 <guru3> my name almost never coems up
00:17 <Pathetique> 'ello
00:17 <Flex> your name has come up twice
00:17 <madmax> lucky you
00:18 <Flex> mine hasn't at all i think :(
00:18 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick told $randomNick that $randomNick cheated on $randomNick, obviously $randomNick and guru3 got into a fight afterwards with $randomNick!
00:18 <armabot> akira_arma told akira_arma that z-man-work cheated on tramshed, obviously z-man-work and guru3 got into a fight afterwards with Lackadaisical!
00:18 <Flex> oh wait it has
00:18 <guru3> lol
00:18 <Lizmatic> #echo $randomNick told $randomNick that $randomNick cheated on $randomNick, obviously $randomNick and guru3 got into a fight afterwards with $randomNick!
00:18 <guru3> cheater ><
00:18 <armabot> P4 told guru3 that StickyNoob cheated on luke-jr, obviously emphasis and guru3 got into a fight afterwards with akira_arma!
00:18 <Flex> #echo $randomNick tells $randomNick to FUCK OFF
00:18 <ivantis> ok, ima download your source again, wats the URL?
00:18 <guru3> hahahaha
00:18 <armabot> akira_arma tells pippijn to FUCK OFF
00:18 <Flex> ooooo
00:18 <Flex> fight fight!
00:18 <akira_arma> stop highlighting me
00:18 <Lizmatic> i think we're all bored or something
00:19 <Flex> #echo $randomNick tells $randomNick to FUCK OFF
00:19 <armabot> akira_arma tells P4 to FUCK OFF
00:19 <Flex> akira_arma is angry!!
00:19 <ivantis> Pathetique: ok, ima download your source again, wats the URL?
00:19 -!- akira_arma [n=chatzill@77.64.163.248] has left #armagetron []
00:19 <Lizmatic> #echo $randomNick drops it like its hot
00:19 <armabot> z-man-work drops it like its hot
00:19 <Pathetique> LOL!
00:19 <Flex> #echo $randomNick tells $randomNick to suck balls
00:19 <armabot> guru3 tells epsy to suck balls
00:19 <Lizmatic> haha
00:19 <Lizmatic> nice
00:19 <Flex> haha
00:19 <ct|kyle> heh
00:19 <epsy> :|
00:19 <guru3> #eacho $randomNick - an epoch fail
00:19 <guru3> #e\cho $randomNick - an epoch fail
00:19 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - an epoch fail
00:19 <armabot> z-man-work - an epoch fail
00:19 <Lizmatic> lol
00:19 <ct|kyle> guru3: i think you fixed your probability
00:19 <epsy> ay
00:20 <ivantis> #echo $randomNick farted on $randomNick's leg!
00:20 <armabot> noob13 farted on madmax's leg!
00:20 <guru3> teach me to use shortuts in typing
00:20 <tramshed> quit makin mah windows green
00:20 <Lizmatic> #echo $randomNick throws an exploding tampon on $randomNick 's head
00:20 <armabot> emphasis throws an exploding tampon on emphasis 's head
00:20 <Flex> hah
00:20 <ivantis> #echo /me stinks
00:20 <epsy> lolzolzolzolzozzolzz
00:20 <armabot> /me stinks
00:20 <ct|kyle> tramshed: change the setting to anotehr color
00:20 <Flex> #echo $randomNick tells $randomNick to eat pooop!
00:21 <armabot> g5vc tells epsy to eat pooop!
00:21 <Pathetique> invantis, did you get the link?
00:21 <ivantis> #echo #ping
00:21 <armabot> #ping
00:21 <Pathetique> ivantis*
00:21 <ct|kyle> #echo /me loves $RandomNick
00:21 <armabot> /me loves wrtlprnft
00:21 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - a mistake
00:21 <armabot> Flex - a mistake
00:21 <ct|kyle> so true
00:21 <Flex> :(
00:21 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - give it up
00:21 <armabot> tramshed - give it up
00:21 <tramshed> quit it
00:21 <ivantis> no
00:21 <ivantis> what was it?
00:21 <tramshed> hah
00:21 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - the meaning of suicide
00:21 <armabot> Flex - the meaning of suicide
00:21 <guru3> ouch
00:22 <guru3> twice -_-
00:22 <Flex> hey!!
00:22 <tramshed> im thinking this nick isnt so random
00:22 <Flex> you rigged it!! :(
00:22 <ivantis> was i the one who started all this by playing with #murder?
00:22 <Pathetique> Nice one with the exploding tampon, whoever made that one.
00:22 <Pathetique> Very classy.
00:22 <Lizmatic> lol
00:22 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - making negative look positive
00:22 <armabot> Lizmatic - making negative look positive
00:22  * Lizmatic bows!
00:22 <tramshed> you arent using debian are you!
00:22 <ct|kyle> #murder
00:22 <armabot> ct|kyle: (murder <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo $1 will get murdered by $randomNick on $randomDate because $1 tried to kill one of $randomNick's $randomNick-s".
00:22 <Flex> #echo $randomNick slaps guru3
00:22 <armabot> G5 slaps guru3
00:23 <ivantis> #echo $randomNick, $randomNick, and $randomNick want everyone to stfu!!!!
00:23  * Lizmatic now playing: Unknown Artist - Track 1
00:23 <armabot> P4, flashyy, and epsy want everyone to stfu!!!!
00:23 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - deciding which limb $randomNick should loose today
00:23 <armabot> Monkey_arma - deciding which limb Ttech should loose today
00:23 <ct|kyle> #murder Flex
00:23 <armabot> Flex will get murdered by Monkey_arma on Tue Aug 22 11:27:30 1989 because Flex tried to kill one of wrtlprnft's Flex-s
00:23 <Pathetique> http://web.mac.com/evan.nelson/mySourceCopy.zip
00:23 <Pathetique> There it is.
00:23 <guru3> let's do the timewarp again!
00:23  * epsy agrees 100%
00:23 <guru3> #echo $randomNick does the TimeWarp
00:23 <armabot> MaZuffeR does the TimeWarp
00:23 <epsy> /admin pause
00:23 <guru3> #echo MaZuffeR does it again
00:23 <armabot> MaZuffeR does it again
00:23 <Lizmatic> sorry, you dont have admin powers to abuse here
00:23 <Flex> #echo $randomNick will take over the world!!!!!
00:23 <armabot> luke-jr will take over the world!!!!!
00:23 <Flex> lol!
00:24 <Lizmatic> :-D
00:24 <guru3> #echo $randomNick - despair personified
00:24 <armabot> Flex - despair personified
00:24 <Pathetique> I don't know what I changed, to be honest. I'm still reading the source...but I know for sure I uncommented the respawn hack...
00:24 <ivantis> ok
00:24 <ivantis> ill download it
00:24 <Flex> definitely rigged!!
00:24 <guru3> who knows about that
00:24 <ct|kyle> #echo $randomNick - despair personified
00:24 <armabot> emphasis - despair personified
00:24 <guru3> Pathetique: need to compile with a --enable flag for respawn
00:24 <guru3> maybe
00:24 <Pathetique> o.0
00:24  * ivantis is downloading your source right now
00:24 <guru3> i have no context for that statement
00:25 <Pathetique> in gGame.cpp?
00:25 <epsy> Pathetique, yeah, i remember there is one
00:25 <guru3> ./configure --enable-i_forget_what_it_is
00:25 <epsy>   --enable-respawn        enable unsupported, hacky, impossible to deactivate
00:25 <epsy>                           at runtime, deathmatch mode. Use at your own risk.
00:25 <epsy>                           (default=disabled)
00:25 <Lizmatic> #murder $randomNick
00:25 <armabot> mkzelda will get murdered by Pathetique on Sun Aug  7 05:17:23 2005 because emphasis tried to kill one of StickyNoob's Pathetique-s
00:26 <Pathetique> o.0
00:26 <guru3> armagetron-0.2.8_alpha20080308-win
00:26 <Flex> #murder Lizmatic
00:26 <armabot> Lizmatic will get murdered by StickyNoob on Mon Apr 20 15:26:21 1981 because Lizmatic tried to kill one of MaZuffeR's ivantis-s
00:26 <guru3> i say -loose (again no context)
00:26 <guru3> #echo armabot - armed with a clock set 30 years in the past
00:26 <armabot> armabot - armed with a clock set 30 years in the past
00:26 <Pathetique> how silly.
00:26 <ivantis> pathetique: what file did you change?
00:27 <Lizmatic> #echo I'm sending Flex to the army in a tutu!
00:27 <armabot> I'm sending Flex to the army in a tutu!
00:27 <guru3> diff?
00:27 <Pathetique> I know I was trying something with gAIBase.cpp and .h...
00:27 <guru3> :o
00:27 <epsy> er
00:27 <Pathetique> And gAICharacter.cpp and .h
00:27 <guru3> the most advanced ai i've written
00:27 <guru3> turns left
00:27 <epsy> haha
00:27 <Pathetique> lol
00:28 <ivantis> AIBase.cpp and .h? which folder? src/tron right?
00:28 <Pathetique> yes
00:28 <Flex> lolol
00:28 <epsy> g- is in tron yes :)
00:28 <Pathetique> and gWinZone.cpp
00:28 <Pathetique> well
00:28 <Pathetique> I was reading that one
00:28 <Pathetique> a lot
00:28 <guru3> it was a chat ai
00:28 <guru3> *doesn't understand the gAI code*
00:28 <ivantis> yes, my first stuff was in gWinZone.cpp
00:28 <Pathetique> Who wrote the AI stuff? o.0
00:29 <epsy> the most recent AI code was done by wrtl
00:29 <epsy> or at least the chatbot code
00:29 <Pathetique> hmm
00:29 <epsy> if they are different
00:29 <guru3> z-man wrote the ai i think
00:29 <ivantis> look at all this AI stuff, a bunch of it is random
00:29 <Flex> how do we remove the AI in arma..
00:29 <guru3> they are different
00:29 <guru3> chatbot ai is reactive
00:29 <Flex> i just want to go straight no matter
00:29 <guru3> gAI is proactive
00:29 <Pathetique> whooooaaaaa slow down
00:30 <Pathetique> ok
00:30 <guru3> the chatbot detects walls within a certain range and turns away from them
00:30 <Pathetique> I'm caught up now
00:30 <Pathetique> gAI tries to kill you, chatbot doesn't.
00:30 <guru3> the regular ai detects your position and works out how to get there and trap you (in addition to avoiding walls)
00:30 <Pathetique> That's essentially it, right?
00:30 <guru3> if you really really boil it down
00:30 <Pathetique> lol
00:30 <Monkey_arma> Pathetique basicallly fancy words for very simple concepts
00:31 <Pathetique> indeed.
00:31 <luke-jr> http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/
00:31  * epsy agrees 100%
00:32 <Flex> basically the chatbox sucks and i want to disable it..
00:32 <Flex> Q: How? :p
00:32 <ivantis> everyone whos talking about pathetique, AIs and stuff join #armagetrons
00:32 <Pathetique> lol
00:32 <epsy> this was luke-jr's Random Statement Of The Day :)
00:32 <Pathetique> woo!
00:32 <guru3> Flex: you can just comment out its code
00:32 <guru3> it's in a rather obscure location as i recall though
00:32 <Flex> isn't there a choice ingame..
00:32 <guru3> just fgrep -r -i chatbot src/
00:32 <guru3> no there isn't
00:33 <guru3> but you can comment out its code and recompile
00:33 <Flex> what about for windows
00:33 <guru3> ummm
00:33 <Pathetique> LOL!
00:33 <guru3> you'd have to recompile it
00:33 -!- AshitakA [n=AshitakA@pD9E01214.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
00:33 <guru3> or write a binary patch
00:33 <guru3> pity it's not in a seperate function
00:33 <ivantis> #echo /me thinks luke-jr shouldnt say http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/ so much
00:33 <armabot> /me thinks luke-jr shouldnt say http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/ so much
00:33 <guru3> then it'd be rather easy to do
00:33 <Flex> yeah, that should be something to add..
00:34 <Pathetique> That's an interesting idea though Flex.
00:34 <Flex> i've always wondered that, never bothered to ask
00:34 <Pathetique> I agree, it would make fortress so much easier...fewer teamkills when grinding...lol
00:34 <guru3> lol
00:34 <luke-jr> #echo ACTION thinks ivantis is stupid
00:34  * armabot thinks ivantis is stupid
00:34 <luke-jr> kthxbye
00:35 <guru3> i really wish i could work out how to attach the real ai to the chatbot ai
00:35 <Pathetique> #echo ACTION is really smarterchild in disguise
00:35 <armabot> ACTION is really smarterchild in disguise
00:35 <guru3> i still think that'd be awesomely funt o watch
00:35 <epsy> guru3, haha
00:35 <epsy> me too
00:35 <Lizmatic> #echo ACTION what
00:35 <luke-jr> #echo ACTION thinks Pathetique is stupid too!
00:35 <epsy> my chatbot already often tries to middle
00:35  * armabot what
00:35  * armabot thinks Pathetique is stupid too!
00:35 <Pathetique> LOL!
00:35 <luke-jr> #echo VERSION
00:35 <Flex> hmm, not really nice on someone else having to play an 100 ai that's afk
00:35 <epsy> ...
00:35 <Lizmatic> #echo ACTION is a little drunk..omg..
00:35 <guru3> well in things like fortress
00:35 <luke-jr> #echo PING
00:35  * armabot is a little drunk..omg..
00:35 <guru3> that doesn't mean too much
00:36 <Flex> in fortress, the ai mostly runs away so..
00:36 <Flex> guess so
00:36 <luke-jr> lol http://rafb.net/p/mLYEJK56.html
00:36 <epsy> if you're middle in a large game the chatbot will generally middle, heh
00:37 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lckdscl@ip202-29-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["gone! quit! exit! etc."]
00:37 <guru3> the old chatbot has an action interval
00:37 <guru3> sort of virtual reflexes
00:37 <guru3> not sure if the new one has this or not
00:37 <guru3> it can only move every so and so milliseconds
00:37 <guru3> doesn't keep track constantly
00:38 <guru3> that's one of its major failings
00:38 <Flex> hey, if in fortress everyone was set in auto alignment where nobody needed to grind.. then there would be no need for noobs to be told to grind!
00:38 <epsy> yeah it was quite obvious on the older versions
00:38 <Pathetique> You mean something like CHATBOT_MIN_TIMESTEP, guru3?
00:38 <guru3> is there something like that now?
00:38 <Pathetique> mhm
00:38 <Pathetique> But I dunno...I haven't seen a difference when i use it on my server.
00:38 <epsy> Flex, boooring :/
00:38 <Pathetique> Indeed
00:39 <ivantis> there is a server setting to disable cchat bots on clients
00:39 <Pathetique> That's part of the excitement, Flex, the whole mad dash to grind as hard as you safely can.
00:39 <Pathetique> ALLOW_CHATBOT or something.
00:39 <Flex> hehe, i know.. i was joking :p
00:39 <epsy> ivantis, yes..second
00:39 <epsy> #cfg chatter
00:39 <armabot> epsy: CHATTER_REMOVE_TIME: Time in seconds after which a permanent chatter is removed from the game (default: 180)
00:39 <guru3> it would be client side wouldn't it
00:39 <epsy> hmm
00:40 <guru3> (min timestep)
00:40 <epsy> guru3, ofc the client can still go on his own
00:40 <Pathetique> Probably.
00:40 <ivantis> ok, people no join #armagetronad
00:40 <ivantis> now**
00:40 <epsy> that's like the CAMERA_FORBID stuff
00:40 <guru3> it's more fun trying to write your own chatbot ai
00:40 <guru3> you get to watch it die in amazing horrible ways
00:40 <epsy> heh yeah
00:41 <epsy> i remember many people making their own chatbots in tigers :P
00:41 <guru3> i know i did that
00:41 <guru3> crazy spirals
00:41 <luke-jr> lol
00:41  * ivantis will be in #armagetronad
00:41 -!- ivantis [i=3fe443da@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8870449bc9f2bb70] has left #armagetron []
00:41 <Pathetique> It'd be nice if the dedicated server didn't have any of the client specific commands
00:41 <epsy> nice try ? :\
00:42 <epsy> Pathetique, er?
00:42 <Pathetique> Like all the visual stuff.
00:42 <epsy> erm, the server doesnt render anything
00:42 <Pathetique> no duh
00:42 <Pathetique> -.-
00:42 <Pathetique> I mean
00:43 <guru3> even the quake and cs servers have the client settings in them
00:43 <Pathetique> The commands. Like VIEWPORT_TO_PLAYER_1.
00:43 <epsy> oh, haha
00:43 <Pathetique> or PLAYER_1 for that matter.
00:43 <epsy> for a while i thought PLAYER_1 would change ADmin's name
00:43 <Pathetique> heh
00:44 <Pathetique> I thought it would change the user who had ID #1 on the server
00:44 <Pathetique> change the name of*
00:44 -!- ivantis [i=3fe443da@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8870449bc9f2bb70] has joined #armagetron
00:44 <luke-jr> hi ivantis
00:44  * luke-jr 0wns you
00:44 <guru3> server side forced name changes don't work well
00:44 <epsy> z-man-work, err bazaarmagetron still didn't wake up
00:44 <Pathetique> LOL
00:44 <Pathetique> yeah it doesn't
00:44 <epsy> guru3, yeah i noticed
00:44 <Pathetique> I had to restrict access to it from Nano before
00:44  * epsy hides
00:44 <Pathetique> because the colors thing doesn't work at all
00:44 <Pathetique> color-filter*
00:45 <epsy> you mean with RENAME?
00:45 <Pathetique> yes
00:45 <ivantis> great
00:45 <epsy> oh, that's intentionnal :P
00:45 <Pathetique> lol
00:45 <ivantis> how did you get ChanServ to give you admin powers
00:45 <ivantis> ?
00:46 <Pathetique> Sexual Favors.
00:46 <Monkey_arma> now there seems to be a few devs about it may be a good time to mention that that bug that wrtl gets (and akira and others) also happens on ATI and nvidia cards not just intel...and it also happens on .2.8alpha
00:46 <epsy> "the bug"
00:46 <Monkey_arma> the crash bug
00:46 <epsy> "the crash bug"
00:46 <Flex> ivantis lol
00:46 <Pathetique> Well, a toggle would be nice...for example, I had to take it away because nano was using it to make pretty-colored names when it was a team event...
00:46 <Monkey_arma> i will just get you a copy of the error
00:46 <ivantis> good god
00:46 <Pathetique> by event I mean game mode.
00:47 <epsy> Pathetique, you mean some sort of "enable cheats" mechanism? :P
00:47 <Pathetique> lol
00:47 <Pathetique> perhaps something like OVERRIDE_COLOR_FILTER
00:47 <epsy> /sv_cheats 1 :o)
00:47 <ivantis> gar!
00:47 <ivantis> this is obnoxous
00:48 <guru3> i feel so tired
00:48 <Pathetique> o.0
00:48 <guru3> *yawn*
00:48 <Pathetique> #echo ACTION yawns in response
00:48 <guru3> damn didn't do the dishes either
00:48 <armabot> ACTION yawns in response
00:48 <epsy> Monkey_arma, are you ever going to file it on launchpad?
00:48 <Pathetique> ._.
00:48 <epsy> talking about it in irc only is really useless
00:48 <Pathetique> epic fail.
00:49 <Pathetique> Do Manta or Destiny ever come in here?
00:49 <epsy> no
00:49 <Pathetique> gah
00:50 <Monkey_arma> ok this bug is from 0.2.8_alpha20080703:
00:50 <Pathetique> o.o
00:50 <epsy> put in launchpad PLEASE
00:50 <epsy> put it in*
00:50 <Monkey_arma> armagetronad-0.2.8-latest_alpha: tnl/t_draw.c:203: bind_inputs: Assertion `inputs[i]->BufferObj->Pointer' failed.
00:50 <Monkey_arma> Aborted
00:50 <Monkey_arma> idk lauchpad
00:51 <Monkey_arma> that while on cafe
00:51 <Monkey_arma> same on any ohter server
00:51 <luke-jr> ivantis = retard
00:51 <Pathetique> Be nice
00:51 <madmax> so much for 'stable'...
00:51 <epsy> Pathetique, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-work/annotate/863?file_id=4612@7d95bf1e-0414-0410-9756-b78462a59f44:armagetronad%2Fbranches%2F0.2.8%2Farmagetronad:src%2Fengine%2FePlayer.cpp#L7229
00:51 <Pathetique> wut
00:51 <epsy> Monkey_arma, https://bugs.launchpad.net/armagetronad
00:51 <guru3> 502
00:51 <Pathetique> oic
00:51 <guru3> *501
00:52 <Pathetique> woohoo!
00:52 <epsy> doh
00:52 <epsy> Pathetique, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-work/annotate/863?file_id=4612@7d95bf1e-0414-0410-9756-b78462a59f44:armagetronad%2Fbranches%2F0.2.8%2Farmagetronad:src%2Fengine%2FePlayer.cpp#L7229
00:52 <Pathetique> wut is this for though?
00:53 <epsy> err
00:53 <epsy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/armagetronad/0.2.8-armagetronad-work/revision/861?start_revid=863#src/engine/ePlayer.cpp-s
00:53 <Monkey_arma> thx epsy
00:53 <Monkey_arma> if we can fix this bug my fps will be fricken pwnzor
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00:54 <epsy> Pathetique, read the very big if block at the end, in the right part
00:54 <Pathetique> ok
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00:54 <epsy> that's what tells if a player can rename or not
00:54 <Monkey_arma> you talking to me?
00:54 -!- epsy [n=epsy@mar75-4-82-227-65-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:54 <Monkey_arma> guess not
00:55 <Pathetique> lolol
00:56 <guru3> bed time, good night all
00:56 <Pathetique> goodnight
00:57 <madmax> gnight
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00:57 <Pathetique> wb
00:57 <epsy> thx
00:57 <Monkey_arma> wb
00:58 <Monkey_arma> gn
00:59 <epsy> Pathetique, did you get anything of it?
00:59 <Pathetique> yesm
00:59 <epsy> eh gratz
00:59 <Pathetique> I think
00:59 <Pathetique> part of it doesn't let you rename AIs, right?
00:59 <epsy> er
01:00 <epsy> it's the contrary :P
01:00 <Pathetique> oic
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01:07 <Flex> for all you linux lovers
01:07 <Flex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3-vBBQKOYU&feature=related
01:11 <Monkey_arma> did you see on the news that anyone who has watched a vid on youtube is getting their details passed on?
01:11 <Flex> hmm, no that's still in discussion..
01:12 <Pathetique> Yep
01:12 <Flex> not much personal info anyway, just IP and username right.. if you're not a regular youtube person..
01:12 <Pathetique> Its such bullshit.
01:12 <Flex> it's not google doing it.. it's viacom..
01:13 <Pathetique> Google should not have to hand it over.
01:13 -!- MaZuffeR [n=mazuffer@darkmoor.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:13 <Pathetique> Its so stupid.
01:14 <Flex> just because you can't or don't have flash installed Monkey_arma, doesn't mean you're so safe..
01:14 <Pathetique> They want the reasons for everthing that was ever removed
01:20 <Monkey_arma> omg how shit is launchpad
01:20 <Monkey_arma> i cant even login with my pass
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01:23 <Monkey_arma> epsy what the fuck is wrong with launchpad login?
01:24 <epsy> nothing?
01:25 <Monkey_arma> ok after about the 10th time it worked for some random reason
01:25 <Flex> because you suck
01:27 -!- luke-senior [i=520df459@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cc36d31350f9a41d] has joined #armagetron
01:28 <luke-senior> Flex: ur biatch and ur so noob omfg
01:28 <luke-senior> luke-jr: ur fricken uber noob
01:28 <Flex> ivantis is gay really..
01:29 <Pathetique> o.o
01:29 <Pathetique> That's not exactly nice, Flex.
01:29 <Flex> i'm not nice!
01:29 <epsy> right, gn
01:29 <luke-senior> im not ivantis flex u r so noob kill urself u fag
01:29 <luke-senior> gn pepsi
01:30 <epsy> hoax :D
01:30 <luke-senior> im not haox
01:30 <epsy> or not :(
01:30 <Flex> you gay it's ivantis
01:30 <Flex> cockafella
01:31 <luke-senior> ima gtfo go ddl oar somit
01:31 <madmax> luke-senior: no one wants to know, go bang your head against some other wall
01:31 <epsy> zomgpwnt
01:32 <luke-senior> lmao
01:33 <Flex> oh right.. hmm it's not ivantis..
01:33  * luke-senior hugs max
01:33 <Flex> i'll take that back
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01:33 <Flex> there he is
01:33 <ivantis> what?
01:33 <Flex> nothing
01:33 <luke-senior> max is just pissed coz flex pwned his speed record on nexus....
01:33 <luke-senior> bb
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01:34 <Flex> lol, what a cock
01:34 <epsy> Monkey_arma,
01:34 <ivantis> luke-senior was using mibbit
01:34 <ivantis> i could smell it
01:34 <epsy> it's Monkey_arma!
01:34 <Monkey_arma> wtf ?
01:34 <Monkey_arma> i get the blame for everything
01:34 <Flex> no it wasn't..
01:34 <Flex> no seriously who was that haha..
01:35 <Flex> it's an american for sure..
01:35 <epsy> who plays on N9 and likes to impersonate on irc?
01:35 <madmax> well, it was you, or me, or someone who knows about speed records on nexus
01:35 <madmax> since it wasn't me...
01:35 <Flex> it wasn't me lol
01:35 <epsy> madmax, hmm, assumptions
01:35 <Flex> why would i call myself a biatch?
01:35 <epsy> hmm, assumptions
01:35 <madmax> you wouldn't? :(
01:35 <Flex> hmm at the time who was here..
01:35 <Flex> no i wouldn't!
01:36 <epsy> hmm, assumptions
01:36 <madmax> I don't care much anyway
01:36  * madmax goes to n9
01:36 <Flex> either the person was on IRC and saw the ss, or was ingame!
01:36 <Flex> hmm, i'll join you
01:38 <ivantis> g2g
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01:38 <Flex> if i could find the server..
01:39 <madmax> er?
01:39 <Flex> you mean deathmatch right.. i don't see anything else
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01:41 <Monkey_arma> oh epsy its still not working
01:42 <Monkey_arma> ok ill ask in #launchpad
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02:00 <StickyNoob> hmm http://blamcast.net/articles/orphaned-works-open-source-copyright worrying if true
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02:07 <Monkey_arma> damn cookies enabled
02:10 <madmax> Flex: cpc3-stkn1-0-0-cust88.midd.cable.ntl.com -> 82.13.244.89
02:10 <Flex> that's most likely hoax..
02:10 <madmax> lol
02:10 <Pathetique> ffs.
02:10 <Pathetique> My ping on fort cafe went through the roof.
02:11 <Flex> hmm wait.. actually is hoax even on virgin?
02:12 <madmax> hoax usually is *.dslaccess.co.uk
02:13 <Flex> well it's not me.. who else uses ntl..
02:15 <madmax> monkey?
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02:16 <luke-jr> MONKEY IS TEH FAIL
02:16 <luke-jr> kthxbye
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02:16 <Pathetique> oi
02:16 <madmax> "Monkey_arma (n=Monkey@cpc3-stkn1-0-0-cust88.midd.cable.ntl.com) has joined #armagetron"
02:16 <Flex> haha
02:16 <Flex> it was him
02:16 <Pathetique> the luke-senior thing?
02:16 <Flex> what a bitch!
02:16 <Flex> and i actually thought Monkey_arma wouldn't be such a knob!
02:16 <Monkey_arma> madmax you know full well that mibbit does not show IPs
02:17 <madmax> try a /whois
02:17 <madmax> it sets the ircname to the hostname
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02:17 <Monkey_arma> it was so obviously me though i cant believe flex did not see that
02:18 <Flex> i never knew you'd be such a hoe :p
02:18 <Pathetique> I can't believe that you guys are still on that.
02:18 <madmax> there was a pause
02:18 <Pathetique> but still
02:18 <Pathetique> :P
02:19 <madmax> I think monkey didn't know mibbit showed the ip :(
02:19 <madmax> so, yes, fail
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02:20 <Monkey_arma> max i cant even believe some people didnt think it was me after the no rubber speed thing
02:20 <madmax> how is that obvious?
02:21 <Monkey_arma> oh man you guys are just a bit dozy
02:21 <Flex> lol
02:22 <Flex> well after i said you suck you did it.. so it was obvious it could be you..
02:22 <Flex> but because you're so mature we never labled you as a cock!
02:22 <Flex> :p
02:22 <Monkey_arma> btw max i dont see your bug report on launchpad
02:22 <madmax> what bug report? scoretable?
02:23 <Monkey_arma> yes
02:23 <madmax> that's already fixed
02:26  * madmax needs a pet Dragonfly
02:26 <Flex> why
02:26 <Monkey_arma> to catch the midges
02:26 <madmax> to eat all the goddamn blood sucking bugs in here
02:26 <Monkey_arma> = midges
02:26 <Flex> switch the light off..
02:27 <madmax> they're smart!
02:28 <madmax> anyway, good night
02:29 <Flex> gn
02:29 <Monkey_arma> gn
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02:44 <ps-z> wut
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02:52 <Flex> Monkey_arma
02:52 <Flex> come Shrunkland
03:16 <armabot> lpbugs: [245925] Crashes during play on newer versions.
03:41 <Monkey_arma> felx just restart
03:41 <Monkey_arma> bbi2
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04:42 <StickyNoob> #tea
04:42 <armabot> StickyNoob: Fortress Café: Players (0/32):
04:47 <Monkey_arma> stkcy!
04:47 <Monkey_arma> hi
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06:05 <Pathetique> Its too quiet in here.
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06:14 <Pathetique> Hey Lucifer. :)
06:14 <Lucifer> hi
06:16 <Pathetique> How are you?
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06:32 <Lucifer> bored
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07:38 <Pathetique> So Lucifer, have you had a chance to read my post at the end of the iPhone 3G thread?
07:39 <Lucifer> yeah, I thought of that system library exception, which is what allows GPL programs to link to microsoft windows api libraries
07:40 <Lucifer> the catch is that *if* there's an NDA involved in using Apple's API, and the usage of that API would be easy to read in our source release, the system library exception doesn't apply
07:41 <Lucifer> I think you said you couldn't find any mention of an NDA that was mentioned in the thread, so if that NDA isn't real, we don't have to worry and can do it under that system library exception
07:41 <Lucifer> really, if that exception weren't there, we couldn't have Mac and Windows versions anyway :)
07:41 <Pathetique> lol
07:42 <Pathetique> Sweet, I'll print off a copy of each to give to my mom to see if she can have one of the lawyers at the firm she works for to read over both of them.
07:42 <Lucifer> there is another option of dubious usage, but there are some disagreements throughout the open source world about it
07:42 <Lucifer> consider Audacity :)
07:42 <Lucifer> there's a type of plugin for audio applications in windows, and I'm forgetting what it's called at the moment....
07:42 <Lucifer> V-something, starts with V
07:42 <Lucifer> VST?
07:42 <Pathetique> gimme a sec
07:43 <Pathetique> Yep
07:43 <Lucifer> yeah, that's it
07:43 <Pathetique> I thought you were going to mention LAME.
07:43 <Lucifer> the VST header isn't Free.  For users to use it, it has to be downloaded under an explicit non-distribution license
07:44 <Lucifer> so Audacity received some complaints from people that made libraries they really depended on, and they realized they couldn't support VST and be GPL
07:44 <Lucifer> so they supported LADSPA, the Linux audio plugin library
07:44 <Lucifer> to add in support for VST plugins, they wrote a BSD-licensed LADSPA plugins that loads VST plugins
07:44 <Pathetique> nice
07:45 <Lucifer> that BSD-licensed layer was compatible in every way, but they obviously did it to work around the *intent* of the GPL
07:45 <Lucifer> so they started pulling out libraries they depended on and replacing them with their own code, because the authors of those libraries were mad about it
07:46 <Lucifer> anyway, that possibility is there for us, but even then it's not perfect.  The idea of there being an NDA prevents us from even doing that option
07:46 <Pathetique> Indeed.
07:46 <Lucifer> unless we did a lot of work to factor out our input layer into a BSD-licensed layer that we replaced for the iPhone with something that fits in the NDA environment
07:47 <Lucifer> that's an option too, if we make an API that we use on all platforms, and release the source to it for most platforms, then we can get away with holding the source back on one platform
07:47 <Lucifer> I seriously doubt you'll be able to get *any* developers around here interested in that option, though
07:47 <Pathetique> Indeed.
07:47 <Lucifer> besides the work involved, we'd end up feeling like we were covered in shit
07:48 <Pathetique> Heh.
07:49 <Pathetique> The iPhone SDK Agreement was created using Microsoft Word.
07:49 <Pathetique> Well, it was typed in it.
07:49 <Lucifer> anyway, the issue of BSD-licensed compatibility layers is more widespread than it sounds.  It's basically what ndiswrappers depends on to use wireless drivers from windows
07:49 <Lucifer> Nvidia does it to give us 3d drivers for their graphics cards in linux, etc.
07:49 <Lucifer> plenty of examples around
07:50 <Lucifer> but ndiswrappers is legal from the GPL direction, where it's not legal is from the direction of the makers of the cards, because you're using their drivers in a way they have explicitly prohibited you from doing
07:52 <Pathetique> hmm.
07:53 <Lucifer> holy shit, there's an audacity irc channel
07:53 <Pathetique> Mhm
07:53 <Pathetique> You didn't know that?
07:53 <Pathetique> I didn't even use IRC until earlier yesterday and I knew that..lol
07:55 <Pathetique> "'FOSS' (Free and Open Source Software) means any software that is subject to terms that, as a condition of use, copying, modification or redistribution, require such software and derivative works thereof to be disclosed or distributed in source code form, to be licensed for the purpose of making derivatives works, or to be redistributed free of charge, including without limitation software distributed under the GNU Gener
07:55 <Lucifer> I've been out of the audacity circle for several years now
07:55 <Lucifer> well, gotta go, I'm feeling a horrible dump about to work its way out
07:56 <Pathetique> LOL!
07:56 <Pathetique> cya
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08:03 <Pathetique> If you're still there reading the thing about the FOSS...I did a search for non-disclosure and disclosure in the iPhone SDK Agreement and there were no hits that pertained to an NDA for anything apple.
08:03 <Pathetique> Basically, its all about protecting the contents of the SDK.
08:03 <Pathetique> So I think we are in the green for not having to use all the silly workarounds.
08:10 <Pathetique> Also, a cool feature to have for it would be upon crash have a large vibration event and maybe when grinding have vibration to make it feel more real?
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15:54 <Pathetique> lol
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16:40 <Flex> hey Pathetique, here?
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18:17 <AshitakA> #armaservers
18:17 <armabot> AshitakA: This data is 53 seconds old; Wild West  =Capture The Flag= (10/10), - | D u r k a  D u r k a  L a n d | - (9/16), [] Cheers! [] The friendly server. (9/12), Crazy Tronners Wild Fortress (9/14), Wild West  =Sumo= (8/14), Norm's Place (6/12), The YELLOW Submarine (6/16), ¦Ã¦.Team.Sumo.Server (6/16), Swampland Mud Puddle (5/8), SPACEZONE III (4/15), Wild West  =Fortress Shootout= (3/12), (1 more message)
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19:37 <Pathetique> Hmm, would anyone know what Flex wanted before?
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20:08 <epsy> guru3, spam everywhere
20:08 <Pathetique> o.0
20:08 <Pathetique> wut?
20:08 <epsy> (I'm talking about the forums)
20:08 <Pathetique> oic
20:08 <epsy> Pathetique, do you have an alert each time someone writes on irc or what? :D
20:09 <Pathetique> nah, Colloquy only has that for when my nickname is mentioned
20:09 <Pathetique> It comes up with a growl notification saying "Highlighted word in message"
20:09 <Pathetique> Hmmm
20:10 -!- AshitakA [n=AshitakA@pD9E02DF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:10 <Pathetique> The modified version of gWinZone.cpp that ivantis gave me yesterday would go on top of a styball patched source code...methinks...
20:10 <epsy> why would it?
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20:11 <Pathetique> All the styball commands are in it...
20:12 <Pathetique> There has to be a way to compare files in xcode...
20:13 <epsy> do you have vim/gVim ?
20:13 <Pathetique> ...wut?
20:14 <Pathetique> No
20:14 <epsy> it has a good utility to compare files
20:14 <epsy> it's a text editor
20:14 <Pathetique> Is it available for mac?
20:14 -!- Lackadaisical [n=lckdscl@ip202-29-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:14 <epsy> you will probably need to use Apple's X11 implementation to be able to use gVim
20:14 <Pathetique> ew
20:14 <Pathetique> I broke that
20:14 <Pathetique> somehow
20:14 <Pathetique> LOL!
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20:14 <epsy> http://macvim.org/OSX/index.php
20:15 <Pathetique> o.o
20:16 <Pathetique> ok
20:17 <epsy> i have no clue if there's gVim included
20:17 <epsy> the site is quite obscure about it
20:17 <Pathetique> it is
20:19 <Pathetique> oi
20:19 <Pathetique> I'll try comparing them myself.
20:19 <epsy> open a term app, and start gvim in diff mode with both files as argument
20:20 <Pathetique> I would if I could find where the files are located on my hard drive...o.0
20:20 <epsy> drag and drop should work
20:22 <Pathetique> w00t
20:22 <Pathetique> Drag and drop did work. Ty
20:23 <Pathetique> Which command would work for this?
20:23 <epsy> this?
20:24 <Pathetique> I'm trying dif
20:24 <Pathetique> diff*
20:24 <epsy> gVim -d
20:29 <Pathetique> it doesn't work well
20:29 <Pathetique> lol
20:29 <Pathetique> but it worked
20:29 <epsy> what does not work well?
20:29 <Pathetique> gVim
20:29 <epsy> i mean what feature
20:29 <Pathetique> the displays
20:31 <Pathetique> ok
20:31  * epsy doesnt get it
20:31 <Pathetique> I set xcode to compile even if there are errors
20:31 <Pathetique> lol
20:32 <madmax> #sd -v team.sum
20:32 <armabot> madmax: There doesn't seem to be a server matching “team.sum” at the moment, sorry.
20:32 <madmax> #sd -v sumo.ser
20:32 <armabot> madmax: ¦×¦.Sumo.Server (armagetron.at:4536) running 0.2.8_alphaLOLWUT   unix dedicated, url: http://xclan.armagetron.co.uk/, Description: “Nothing but plain sumo.“, Players (5/16): <V>TØtM, CT_emphasis (emphasis@crazy-tronners.com), madmax, Master Pimp, ~*mauzi*~
20:33 <madmax> epsy: look for BUG a few minutes ago
20:33 <madmax> people left during the chatting timeout, but their bases were still conquered
20:35 <epsy> 5891685 [1 TS=2008/07/06-20:28:19 IP=********] madmax: BUG
20:35 <epsy> that one?
20:35 <madmax> yes
20:35 <epsy> no, they left after the time that stuff is done
20:36 <epsy> it was already the chat-wait time
20:36 <epsy> many free points heh
20:37 <madmax> chatting timeout = chat wait time
20:37 <epsy> ah
20:37 <epsy> well at that time zones are already created
20:37 <madmax> hmm
20:37 <epsy> chat wait time can be at any moment btw
20:38 -!- flashyy [n=flashyy@p57BB3FB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #armagetron
20:38 <epsy> even in the middle of a round
20:41 <madmax> I guess it's supposed to be that way... but at the time it looked pretty weird heh
20:41 <epsy> i agree yeah
20:41 <epsy> anyway, /admin pause ftw
20:43 <madmax> Pathetique: http://code.google.com/p/macvim/ best OS X gvim :-)
20:44 <madmax> the one on macvim.org is getting outdated
20:45 <madmax> btw, they include FileMerge to compare files on the dev tools, but it kind of sucks
20:46 <Pathetique> o.0
20:46 <Pathetique> ty, but I give up for now.
20:46 <Pathetique> lol
20:47 <madmax> lol
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20:48 <Pathetique> ugh.
20:48 <Pathetique> FFS. Why doesn't he use a better client?
20:48 -!- Flex [i=Flex@cpc1-lewi8-0-0-cust550.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #armagetron
20:48 <Pathetique> Flex!
20:49 <Pathetique> What did you need me for earlier?
20:49 <Flex> oh, hi.. i was wondering what you meant by vibration or something
20:49 <luke-jr> Flex: is this an anime channel?
20:50 <Pathetique> Oh
20:50 <Flex> luke-jr huh?
20:50 <luke-jr> Flex: you're supposed to say yes
20:50 <Flex> oh, yes!
20:50 <luke-jr> cool
20:50 <Pathetique> I mean it like, as you grind on someone else's wall, the iPhone would vibrate.
20:50 <luke-jr> can you help me patch KDE 2 on FreeBSD?
20:50 <epsy> luke-jr, where are you hiding this channel's scenario? :D
20:51 <Flex> Pathetique, hmm iPhone arma..
20:51 <Flex> is that possible :p
20:51 <Pathetique> :D
20:51 <epsy> legally we could only distribute the source
20:51 <epsy> that kind of sucks
20:51 <epsy> :/
20:51 <Flex> you grind quite a lot.. so that would be quite a lot of vibrating..
20:51 <epsy> Flex, yeah
20:52 <luke-jr> epsy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_does_one_patch_KDE2_under_FreeBSD%3F
20:52 <epsy> i hope our iPhone users aren't too perversed
20:52 <Pathetique> Well, maybe not a grind
20:53 <epsy> er, woot for the Russian internet culture<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Internet_culture> ?
20:53 <Pathetique> but if you crashed
20:53 <Pathetique> then there'd be a pulse
20:53 <Flex> sounds like a nice idea actually.. how about having 'shaking' or vibration in arma...
20:53 <Flex> :p
20:54 <madmax> electrical shocks if you die. maybe that would inscrease overall gameplay
20:54 <Pathetique> lol
20:55  * epsy dreams of arma running P2P on bluetooth
20:55 <Pathetique> hmm
20:55 <Pathetique> Damn
20:55 <epsy> that'd be a lot of breaking changes
20:56 <Pathetique> To have a lawyer at my mom's law firm read over the iPhone SDK Agreement and the GPL
20:56 <Pathetique> she said it would cost
20:56 <Pathetique> $400/hour
20:56 <epsy> would be quite a challenge to keep it based on the same source
20:56 <epsy> Pathetique, i hope for youthe Apple iPhone SDK Agreement isn't too large
20:57 <Pathetique> Its only 10 pages.
20:57 <Pathetique> lol
20:57 <Flex> read over?
20:57 <Flex> you can't read it yourself? :p
20:57 <epsy> Pathetique, the GPL fits on 2 pages
20:57 -!- AshitakA [n=AshitakA@pD9E02DF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #armagetron
20:57 <epsy> mainly because it's not trying to fuck up the user in every way possible
20:58 <Pathetique> Flex, I have, but Lucifer and a few of the others would be a lot more comfortable if someone had a lawyer run it over.
20:58 <Pathetique> From what I get out of the iPhone SDK Agreement
20:58 <Pathetique> its all about not putting Apple Property under the terms of the GPL license that would conflict with Apple's own interests
20:59 <Pathetique> and not disseminating the parts of the iPhone SDK to others who have not legally obtained it
20:59 <Pathetique> Legally obtaining it would mean registering with the Apple Developer Connection for the iPhone SDK and then download it.
21:00 <epsy> ..without putting the content under GPL under apple's propertty
21:00 <Pathetique> SDL is being ported to iPhone and iPod Touch.
21:00 <epsy> i guess you have to pay to get that SDK license don't you?
21:00 <Pathetique> Nope.
21:00 <Pathetique> I'm one of those people who think, "If its free, its for me!"
21:00 <epsy> ok then it has a little more chance than zune
21:01 <luke-jr> Pathetique: GPL cannot touch proprietary stuff
21:01 <Pathetique> So generally if I have to pay for stuff, I try to avoid getting it.
21:01 <epsy> haha
21:01 <epsy> say, you have two mobile phones in front of you
21:01 <Pathetique> However, so I can play Darwinia, I'm giving in to my urges and paying $30 to Ambrosia Software
21:01 <luke-jr> Pathetique: why does it need a SDK?
21:02 <epsy> one that has a megapwn camera and everything
21:02 <Pathetique> luke-jr: The iPhone?
21:02 <epsy> that costs $500
21:02 <luke-jr> yes
21:02 <epsy> and at the right one that does phone + sms but free
21:02 <epsy> most people will chose the one at the right
21:03 <luke-jr> Pathetique: anyhow, as long as any end user can recompile and use Arma-for-iPhone, I am willing to dual license my portion of the code to make it possible.
21:03 <luke-jr> of course, you'd need to get approval from z-man, guru3, Lucifer, et al as well
21:03 <Pathetique> They figured people were going to jailbreak their iPhones and iPod Touches and put Apps on them anyways...why not make it easier for people to develop and make money off it at the same time?
21:03 <epsy> including the people that are away..heh
21:04 <Pathetique> New iPhone starts at $199
21:04 <Pathetique> Half the cost of the first.
21:04 <epsy> i wonder what deadlocks could happen if someone dies
21:04 <luke-jr> Pathetique: I think the Amazon Kindle is under $199
21:04 <luke-jr> and it doesn't require a subscription :þ
21:04 <Pathetique> lol
21:04 <Pathetique> But yeah
21:05 <Pathetique> if SDL is ported to iPhone/iPod Touch
21:05 <epsy> the normal n95 sells for 79€ locked
21:05 <epsy> already..
21:05 <Pathetique> Then we wouldn't have to use the Apple input system...right?
21:05 <epsy> if SDL includes input..
21:05 <luke-jr> ah, good point
21:05 <luke-jr> forgot our deps
21:06 <luke-jr> are GPL/LGPL too
21:06 <epsy> true
21:06 <luke-jr> so we can't make exceptions
21:06 <Pathetique> And it wouldn't require such drastic changes as it would if we had to change it over to Apple's "touch" events for input.
21:06 <luke-jr> :o
21:06 <epsy> luke-jr, we could still distribute the source
21:06 <luke-jr> epsy: GPL doesn't treat source and different from binary in that regard
21:07 <luke-jr> if the source requires anything proprietary, it's illegal
21:07 <epsy> teh source of teh source eh
21:07 <Pathetique> o.O
21:07 <luke-jr> s/and/any
21:08 <epsy> dinner brb
21:08 <Pathetique> hmmm
21:09 -!- |z10n| [n=pinkpant@g225037138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #armagetron
21:09 <|z10n|> hi all
21:09 <Pathetique> hello
21:09 <luke-jr> since SDL is LGPL, however, that's only in one direction
21:10 <luke-jr> so we could make an exception as long as SDL isn't modified to use proprietary stuff
21:10 <Pathetique> sweet
21:10 <luke-jr> FTGL is also LGPL
21:10 <Pathetique> FTGL = ???
21:10 <luke-jr> FTGL does the TrueType fonts
21:11 <Pathetique> oic
21:11 <Pathetique> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3__8ozNz0
21:11 <Pathetique> iPhone SDL Test.
21:11 <luke-jr> ?
21:12 <Pathetique> oooooooo
21:12 <Pathetique> It shows the SDL that has been ported so far to the iPhone in action.
21:13 <Pathetique> Then follow the link to the iPhone SDL Test 2
21:14 <Pathetique> that's pretty cool.
21:14 <luke-jr> does that have the blessing of the SDL copyright holders?
21:14 <Pathetique> I dunno.
21:14 <Pathetique> Checking on that right now.
21:15 <luke-jr> if not, they probably can't distribute it
21:16 <Pathetique> http://www.libsdl.org/gsoc.php
21:16 <Pathetique> I think it does...
21:17 <Flex> wait.. sorry, i'm not following the subject at the moment.. but why does anyone want to port arma over to iPhone?
21:17 <Pathetique> My motivation was more exposure to the game.
21:17 <Flex> how easy would it be to play arma on it
21:18 <Pathetique> I dunno...
21:18 <Pathetique> it would be interesting to allow the user to define sections of the screen to have set for input and have the ability to detect multi binds like the normal versoin of the game can.
21:20 <luke-jr> well, SDL says there will be commercial licensing starting with 1.3
21:20 <luke-jr> which means they probably have a single copyright holder
21:20 <epsy> a bit like QT ?
21:20 <luke-jr> who can make exceptions as they want
21:20 <luke-jr> epsy: a bit
21:20 <luke-jr> Qt is GPL though, not LGPL
21:20 <luke-jr> Flex: Arma only needs 2 keys
21:21 <Pathetique> Quicktime?
21:21 <luke-jr> plus, phones are online :þ
21:21 <epsy> if they use LGPL, dual-licensing is kind of nonsense isn't it?
21:21 <luke-jr> Pathetique: no, Qt
21:21 <luke-jr> epsy: no
21:21 <Pathetique> oic
21:21 <luke-jr> epsy: LGPL still requires publishing source for *this* and *this's dependencies*
21:21 <luke-jr> epsy: the difference is that LGPL permits proprietary *your stuff* to use it
21:22 <Pathetique> luke-jr: didn't it also say the conventional license was allowed too?
21:22 <luke-jr> Pathetique: ?
21:23 <Pathetique> The normal LGPL License that it is under.
21:23 <luke-jr> …
21:23 <luke-jr> I just described LGPL
21:23 <luke-jr> wtf are you asking
21:24 <Pathetique> SDL 1.3 and newer are available either under the GNU LGPL license , or under an alternative commercial license .
21:24 <Pathetique> I was pointing taht out.
21:25 <Pathetique> that*
21:25 <luke-jr> yes
21:25 <luke-jr> that's obvious
21:26 <Pathetique> The way you were talking about it made me think you thought it was only going to be available under that commercial licensing.
21:28 <luke-jr> no
21:31 <Pathetique> So yeah, it seems to be possible. We just need to find out how much of SDL has been ported and when it should be complete. If all the features that are shown in the video are still in it, imagine the possibilities of what could be done with Armagetron Advanced...
21:32 <luke-jr> no changes needed then I think
21:35 <Pathetique> Wow. That would be freaking sweet.
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21:53 <luke-jr> Pathetique: though if that is the case, a binary might still need an exception from Arma devs
21:53 <Pathetique> What is this exception you speak of?
21:53 <luke-jr> to the GPL terms
21:54 <luke-jr> basically, you'd need a non-GPL license for a binary that requires proprietary linking
21:54 <luke-jr> the source would be fine, since it is platform-independant in this case
21:54 <Pathetique> indeed
21:59 <Pathetique> Hmm...Bonjour is an Open Source thing, right?
22:17 <Pathetique> nvm
22:18 <Pathetique> It's Apple Proprietary
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